# Ariens 926le bogs down in 1foot of snow...



## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Hi Folks!

So, I just put the dual belt upgrade kit on my Ariens and was pumped to attack the foot of wet snow I got today. Well, it was frustrating. 1st gear the whole time, Barley could cut half the intake width. The machine never died but it had serious issues with the 2 feet at the end of the driveway. I am limited to ethanol fuel, and think that has something to do with it. Or am I just expecting too much out of the machine. 

First, a side note which I think will help, if I don't shut the fuel line off, gas fills the carb and leaks into the oil. I had Grey oil once. 

So, clean the carb? Use a stable in the fuel? The gas is 1 month old. I used to clean carbs all the time. But time is limited now with kids. Buy a new carb? A knock off? Or governor adjustment? Or buy a shovel?

Thanks for all the help!


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## 99698 (Dec 27, 2016)

Grey oil is a sign of water in the oil not gas, if it’s really milky I’d suggest an oil change, if your carbs filling up with gas and I’m assuming over flowing, your float in carb bowl could be stuck, but I can’t see gas getting into motor from carb.


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## SnowH8ter (Oct 8, 2018)

Harry Doyle said:


> I am limited to ethanol fuel, and think that has something to do with it. The gas is 1 month old.



I've been running ethanol blended fuel through snow blowers for well over 20 yrs. The oxygenate, per se, is probably not the issue. If you add ethanol to crappy gas, you still have crappy gas. Drain the beast and source an alternate fuel supply.


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## Homesteader (Jan 12, 2019)

Was your machine bogging down before the dual belt upgrade?

Is the engine bogging, audible drop in RPM, or is the impeller bogging, throwing distance shortended but engine RPM high?

If the engine RPM is low under load, you may need to check the governor spring for a bent loop, change spark plug, or clean/rebuild carb.
If RPM is high but throwing distance decreases under load then you need to tension the belts properly. 

https://youtu.be/u1gRG3-QZ9c


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## KennyW in CT (Feb 24, 2015)

If the float doesn't have a hole in it filling it with fuel then your needle isn't sealing against the rubber seat. Put in a Tecumseh rebuild kit. To check the float, just shake it to see if there is fuel in it. if so, replace it. Fuel in the float will weigh it down so it never reaches the seat to seal off the fuel. Both these items would cause spitting out of fuel out the carb.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Homesteader said:


> Was your machine bogging down before the dual belt upgrade?
> 
> Is the engine bogging, audible drop in RPM, or is the impeller bogging, throwing distance shortended but engine RPM high?
> 
> ...


I only used it in powder snow before the upgrade. 

It loses rpm or engine power under load. Head light dims, doesn't throw snow as far. Should I check the governor while under load to see if it is moving correctly?


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## Homesteader (Jan 12, 2019)

Harry Doyle said:


> I only used it in powder snow before the upgrade.
> 
> It loses rpm or engine power under load. Head light dims, doesn't throw snow as far. Should I check the governor while under load to see if it is moving correctly?


I would make sure to check this on your carb before doing anything.





If this doesn't work you will need to rebuild your carb and install a new float because the float is not bringing the needle up to seal the bowl. A brand new carb is an option if you want a fast fix and then rebuild the carb later when you have time - then you'll have a backup for the future.

I don't think it's necessary to have it running. You simply want to check and see if the spring loops are evenly spaced and not bent or damaged when under tension. Also, some of the springs on older machines loose their tension and need to be replaced or fixed by cutting off one loop on the end and reinstalling. I would only do this after you solve the leaking carb issue.

Picture attached so you can see how a governor spring should look.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Homesteader said:


> I would make sure to check this on your carb before doing anything.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cYXlloqwi8
> 
> If this doesn't work you will need to rebuild your carb and install a new float because the float is not bringing the needle up to seal the bowl. A brand new carb is an option if you want a fast fix and then rebuild the carb later when you have time - then you'll have a backup for the future.
> ...


Thanks for the video and picture!

I may for time saving sake just buy a ...GASP...aftermarket carb, i was looking at these two, but not sure which would be closer to OEM and or more reliable. FYI the second is the amazon link, it may look like an ad but its a link.

https://www.everestpartssupplies.co...-9hp-10hp-lh318sa-lh358sa-carburetor-w-primer

https://www.amazon.com/Oregon-50-659-Carburetor-Replacement-Tecumseh/dp/B004HU6OGI


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## Homesteader (Jan 12, 2019)

I’ve used plenty of parts from Oregon and haven’t had a problem yet. 

I’m also a big fan of amazon even though they are taking over the world.

Never hear of that other website or parts manufacturer before. 

Good luck!


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## Greg13 (Nov 25, 2018)

The blower bogs down, What do you have for an engine? how big is the bucket? A foot of snow WILL bog down a blower, My 10 hp 28" works to throw a foot of damp snow. Before you start looking at mechanical or fuel problems look at the basics first.


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

I always go for the adjustable carbs now, Nice to be able to tune them if they get a little lean.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable...5:g:mA8AAOSwehZaE~14:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Homesteader said:


> I’ve used plenty of parts from Oregon and haven’t had a problem yet.
> 
> I’m also a big fan of amazon even though they are taking over the world.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I know Oregon is pretty well known. Not sure of Everest.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Dauntae said:


> I always go for the adjustable carbs now, Nice to be able to tune them if they get a little lean.
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable...es/smilies/tongue.gif[/IMG]f:1&frcectupt=true


Thanks for the idea of adjustable. But 11 bucks? Is that really a quality product?


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Greg13 said:


> The blower bogs down, What do you have for an engine? how big is the bucket? A foot of snow WILL bog down a blower, My 10 hp 28" works to throw a foot of damp snow. Before you start looking at mechanical or fuel problems look at the basics first.


Hi, 

Its a Tecumseh lh318sa 9hp. I could barely get through in 1st gear though. I know enough to know that there is a problem with it somewhere. I'm going to check the gov. Linkage tonight and tinker with the carb.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Pulled the carb, cleaned it. Now it leaks gas. The machine now shuts down under load (1 foot plus snow bank). Linkage is fine, I played with it while under load and it was maxed out and still died.

New carb time?


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## Homesteader (Jan 12, 2019)

Greg13 said:


> The blower bogs down, What do you have for an engine? how big is the bucket? A foot of snow WILL bog down a blower, My 10 hp 28" works to throw a foot of damp snow. Before you start looking at mechanical or fuel problems look at the basics first.


He said the gas was flowing through the carb even when fuel shut off was engaged in his first post as well as the make model that you ask for.


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## Homesteader (Jan 12, 2019)

Harry Doyle said:


> Pulled the carb, cleaned it. Now it leaks gas. The machine now shuts down under load (1 foot plus snow bank). Linkage is fine, I played with it while under load and it was maxed out and still died.
> 
> New carb time?


Did you check the bowl to see if it’s sealed or taking on fuel when you cleaned it?


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Homesteader said:


> Harry Doyle said:
> 
> 
> > Pulled the carb, cleaned it. Now it leaks gas. The machine now shuts down under load (1 foot plus snow bank). Linkage is fine, I played with it while under load and it was maxed out and still died.
> ...


Not sure... Are you saying I should remove the bowl and open the fuel shut off, lift the float (into shut off position) and see if fuel still flows?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Homesteader said:


> He said the gas was flowing through the carb even when fuel shut off was engaged in his first post as well as the make model that you ask for.


Maybe I misinterpreted, but in post 1, I thought he meant that gas keeps flowing through the carb if the fuel shutoff valve is open, not if it's closed. 

OP, where is the gas leaking from? Your original description definitely sounded like a leaking needle valve in the carb. But where is the current/new leak coming from? 

~$15 for a carb IS awfully cheap, raising quality questions. But a lot of people seem to have success with them. I'd give it a shot, going with an adjustable one.


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## Homesteader (Jan 12, 2019)

When you remove the bowl you will see the float(donut) hanging dow. It supports the needle. You should be able to slide the pin holing it right out. 

This donut should be 100% air tight. If it has a hole it will take on fuel and no longer be boyant enough to lift the need up and seal it to prevent fuel flow. 

Shake it around to see if there is anything sloshing around inside - if there is, then is no good. You can also submerge it under water and look for bubbles. There should be no bubbles. Bubbles mean it’s taking on water.

There is also a rubber gasket up inside where the needle goes. It could be worn or damaged and no longer creating a good seal with the needle. 

Gas flows from the fuel line into the bowl. As the engine uses fuel, the float lowers and opens up an air passage for more fuel to flow into the bowl. When their is enough fuel the fuel lifts the bowl, the bowl lifts the needle and seals the air passage. Either the float isn’t lifting or the seal the bed sits is bad. 

Either way - new carb or rebuild.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Homesteader said:
> 
> 
> > He said the gas was flowing through the carb even when fuel shut off was engaged in his first post as well as the make model that you ask for.
> ...


So it now Leaks from the nut on the bottom of the bowl. Before that, when the machine was off, the float wouldn't shut off the fuel flow. I had oil blowing out of the vent tube on the engine. I read that was caused by fule backing up into the engine due to the needle not setting correctly to shut off the fuel.

Anyway, I bought a knock off carb. It will be here Saturday! And I will hopefully report back good news!


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## Homesteader (Jan 12, 2019)

Did you remember to reinstall the gasket? 

If yes, then the gasket on the bottom around the jet is damaged and not sealing. 

Order a rebuild kit as well. I like Oregon’s and rebuild the carb in your spare time. 

Good luck with the new carb.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Homesteader said:


> Did you remember to reinstall the gasket?
> 
> If yes, then the gasket on the bottom around the jet is damaged and not sealing.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll report the results!


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

New carb installed. It seems to be doing better in the heavy deep snow bank snow.

I tested the compression with the electric start and it was 80psi. This was done with a cold engine. Not sure if that matters. 

I'm starting to think that maybe I'm expecting too much out of the machine. A 9hp 26inch ariens probably shouldn't be able to just plow non stop through 1 foot of wet snow...... Or should it?


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Harry Doyle said:


> I'm starting to think that maybe I'm expecting too much out of the machine. A 9hp 26inch ariens probably shouldn't be able to just plow non stop through 1 foot of wet snow...... Or should it?


Wet snow weighs about 64 pounds per cubic foot. Dry snow around 12-14 lb. (Got those figures on the news the other night as they discussed people keeling over shoveling heavy, wet snow.) 

When you are dealing with wet heavy sloppy snow, you have to go slow, and take small bites. Too much and you will bog the machine down, and probably clog the auger, impeller and chute.

If you are also seeing very short throwing distance, then you might add an impeller kit to help move that snow out the chute with a bit more velocity and distance.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

skutflut said:


> Harry Doyle said:
> 
> 
> > I'm starting to think that maybe I'm expecting too much out of the machine. A 9hp 26inch ariens probably shouldn't be able to just plow non stop through 1 foot of wet snow...... Or should it?
> ...


Funny you mention the auger kit. I just installed the dual belt upgrade kit.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

Harry Doyle said:


> I'm starting to think that maybe I'm expecting too much out of the machine. A 9hp 26inch ariens probably shouldn't be able to just plow non stop through 1 foot of wet snow...... Or should it?


Well, not at the same speed it goes through fresh light snow of course. That wet snow is HEAVY.

BTW, there is a good way to be appreciative of how much work that engine (of whatever size) on your snlowblower is doing. Try shoveling it, just a few bites. Then you won't complain about it being slow because you'll quickly see it's a lot faster than you are.:smile2:


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## zandor (Dec 15, 2017)

We can also explain just how much work the snowblower is doing with a little math.

I'm not sure what the rated capacity of a 926le is, but if the current models are any indication I would guess around 60-70 tons/hour. Let's just say it's good for 65 now that you have a new carb. Rated capacity is probably under "ideal conditions" but the numbers are still a little scary so I'll use it anyway.

65 tons of snow an hour. 130,000 lbs / 64 lbs per cubic foot (using skutflut's number from a couple posts back) = 2,031.25 ft^3/hour. With a 26" bucket and a 12" snow depth that works out to 937.5 feet per hour, or 0.178mph. Normal walking speed is around 3mph.

If you think about shoveling 130,000 lbs of snow in an hour, 0.178mph doesn't seem so bad. If you take 1/2 ft^3 scoops you'll need to do 67.7 shovelfuls a minute at 32 lbs each to keep up with the snowblower.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

skutflut said:


> Wet snow weighs about 64 pounds per cubic foot. Dry snow around 12-14 lb. (Got those figures on the news the other night as they discussed people keeling over shoveling heavy, wet snow.)



_The weight of one cubic foot of water is *7.48052* gallons times *8.3453* pounds, which equals62.42718356 pounds of water per cubic foot._


You may want to find a new News Supplier ! Or, maybe I should find a new Google ! Or...maybe the snow in Canada is super-saturated !


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

RIT333 said:


> _The weight of one cubic foot of water is *7.48052* gallons times *8.3453* pounds, which equals62.42718356 pounds of water per cubic foot._
> 
> 
> You may want to find a new News Supplier ! Or, maybe I should find a new Google ! Or...maybe the snow in Canada is super-saturated !


I did say "About". :smile2:

Still when you hit a 12 inch high pile of snow with a 26 inch bucket, you are beginning to chew on a fair bit of weight and if you try and eat it too fast, its going to bog you down


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## zandor (Dec 15, 2017)

I suppose I should have checked my inputs. Garbage in, garbage out...


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

OK, so I've replaced the carb, added new fuel with stabil, put a new plug on it in November, compression registers 80psi, and it still bogs down in the deep snow.

What can I do next? 

Thanks for all your help with this issue. The forum and it members are very, very helpful.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Does the performance get better or worse if you add partial choke? 

A new carb isn't guaranteed to be perfect. If adding choke makes it run better under a load, then you're lean, and not getting enough fuel. If it makes it worse, then you're probably getting enough. If your new carb is adjustable, then a tweak is easy and reversible, if required. 

Can you post a video? At some point, it becomes a question of expectations. Even the top of the line machines aren't infinitely powerful.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Does the performance get better or worse if you add partial choke?
> 
> A new carb isn't guaranteed to be perfect. If adding choke makes it run better under a load, then you're lean, and not getting enough fuel. If it makes it worse, then you're probably getting enough. If your new carb is adjustable, then a tweak is easy and reversible, if required.
> 
> Can you post a video? At some point, it becomes a question of expectations. Even the top of the line machines aren't infinitely powerful.


I don't think this one is adjustable. 
Carburetor Replaces Tecumseh 640349, 640052, 640054 OREGON 50-659 Includes Mounting Gasket https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GSLERK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_VLRBCbVM9T7M7


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

If there's no screw in the bottom center of the carb bowl, then it's not adjustable. The non-adjustable ones often have just a flat bolt head there instead.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> If there's no screw in the bottom center of the carb bowl, then it's not adjustable. The non-adjustable ones often have just a flat bolt head there instead.


OK, it does have that screw. However it has a black plug on the side instead of the long screw with holes. 

So I can adjust that screw on the bottom and it won't leak?


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Does the performance get better or worse if you add partial choke?
> 
> A new carb isn't guaranteed to be perfect. If adding choke makes it run better under a load, then you're lean, and not getting enough fuel. If it makes it worse, then you're probably getting enough. If your new carb is adjustable, then a tweak is easy and reversible, if required.
> 
> Can you post a video? At some point, it becomes a question of expectations. Even the top of the line machines aren't infinitely powerful.


I think it died last time I tried to add partial choke. 

I can try and post a video tomorrow. I think that will be very helpful.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Harry Doyle said:


> OK, it does have that screw. However it has a black plug on the side instead of the long screw with holes.
> 
> So I can adjust that screw on the bottom and it won't leak?


A picture would help make sure we're all talking about the same thing. 

This listing is for an adjustable carb. Does yours have a screw that looks like this, in the center of the bowl? Not the one that's off to the side of the bowl, that one is a drain (push it, and it lets the gas drain out of the carb bowl). 

https://www.amazon.com/Adjustable-Carburetor-Tecumseh-632334A-632334/dp/B01D40658I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1550771703&sr=8-2&keywords=carburetor+hmsk80+adjustable



Harry Doyle said:


> I think it died last time I tried to add partial choke.
> 
> I can try and post a video tomorrow. I think that will be very helpful.


If add partial choke to my Ariens, once it's warmed up, I lose a bunch of power, due to running too-rich. It will keep running with no load, but put it in the snow, and it runs very weakly. If you're lucky enough to have an adjustable carb, we can use that adjustment to make sure it's dialed-in correctly.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Harry Doyle said:
> 
> 
> > OK, it does have that screw. However it has a black plug on the side instead of the long screw with holes.
> ...


Look like I have a non-adjustable carb.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Yup, that one is not adjustable.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Yup, that one is not adjustable.


Interesting thing is, the oem Tecumseh 640349 carb was non adjustable. But on the side of the carb, not the bowl, there was a screw with vent holes. The one I posted had a black plug.

Maybe I should grab this one? 
Carbhub 640052 Carburetor for Tecumseh 640349 640054 640058 640058A HMSK80 HMSK85 HMSK90 HMSK100 HSMK110 LH318A LH358SA 8HP 9HP 10HP Snowblower Generator Chipper Shredder - Tecumseh 640052 640054 Carb https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079NTGG2K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_NyVBCbKZ7F193


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

That one would give you more options, if they were needed. I just got 2 Chinese carbs for a machine of mine (not available as adjustable), and both ran too lean. Given the choice, my preference would be adjustable. At least you have the ability to make a change if required. 

Bear in mind that yours might be running fine, of course.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> That one would give you more options, if they were needed. I just got 2 Chinese carbs for a machine of mine (not available as adjustable), and both ran too lean. Given the choice, my preference would be adjustable. At least you have the ability to make a change if required.
> 
> Bear in mind that yours might be running
> 
> fine, of course.


So on the non-adjustable one that is currently installed, do I have a way of adjusting from lean to rich? Would too lean cause it to bog down?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

The only option for "adjusting" the current one is too add choke, which makes it more rich. You really can't do anything to make it more-lean, as a test. 

Too-lean, or too-rich, can make it lose power, yes.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> The only option for "adjusting" the current one is too add choke, which makes it more rich. You really can't do anything to make it more-lean, as a test.
> 
> Too-lean, or too-rich, can make it lose power, yes.


Thanks for the clarification. I'll fiddle with the choke under load. And then maybe by an adjustable carb.

Could this possibly be a throttle problem? When under load it Max's out. I can't push it open any further. But I do see I can adjust it a bit to maybe open more.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

No, if the governor is opening the throttle fully under a load, then it's doing it's job properly.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Harry Doyle said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I'll fiddle with the choke under load. And then maybe by an adjustable carb.
> 
> Could this possibly be a throttle problem? When under load it Max's out. I can't push it open any further. But I do see I can adjust it a bit to maybe open more.



If the gov linkage hits maximum before the throttle itself is fully open, then yes, you have an issue. The gov and the carb should hit maximum simultaneously, and max RPM is set in the linkage - not the gov setup. 


Also, crap in your carb *can* vary the mixture. No, you can't adjust it, but via cleaning, you sure can affect it (if that's the issue .. .).


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

So here is a great example of what I'm referring to. This is in about 10 to 12" of snow. 

https://youtu.be/CkON_nGQzfU


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

What kind of snow? Is it icy? I'm, in part, wondering why the tires were spinning, just trying to understand what the conditions were like. 

But that does seem like it's bogging down quite a bit. Does it improve, or get worse, when you add partial choke? Is there any smoke visible in the exhaust? 

I'm assuming that the throttle plate is fully open during these conditions.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> What kind of snow? Is it icy? I'm, in part, wondering why the tires were spinning, just trying to understand what the conditions were like.
> 
> But that does seem like it's bogging down quite a bit. Does it improve, or get worse, when you add partial choke? Is there any smoke visible in the exhaust?
> 
> I'm assuming that the throttle plate is fully open during these conditions.


It dies with partial choke. Snow was very wet. It was almost 40 degrees out. No smoke and last time I did this with the carb housing off, i tried pushing the governor further and it was maxed. Throttle was wid open.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

If it gets weaker when you add choke, then you're probably not running lean, I'd say. Choke makes it richer, so I'd guess that your mixture is either already correct, or perhaps already a bit too rich. 

Have you checked your valve clearances? Your cold compression is good, IMO. But if your valve clearances are too small, once the engine gets hot and the valves expand, that can keep a valve open slightly. Reducing compression and power.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> If it gets weaker when you add choke, then you're probably not running lean, I'd say. Choke makes it richer, so I'd guess that your mixture is either already correct, or perhaps already a bit too rich.
> 
> Have you checked your valve clearances? Your cold compression is good, IMO. But if your valve clearances are too small, once the engine gets hot and the valves expand, that can keep a valve open slightly. Reducing compression and power.


Maybe I should check compression with a hot engine? 

Also, I have no idea how to check the valve clearence. Is this something I can do easily?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

The Technician's Manual here has info on valve clearances: 
https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/snowblower-repairs-maintenance-forum/1383-tecumseh-technicians-handbook-4-stroke.html

And I'm sure there are YouTube videos about it. 

Yes, comparing hot compression to cold compression, could give some info, at least. Do it with the electric starter. And try to get the engine nice and hot first. Clearing snow, then quickly shut it down and check compression. 

Another indication could be if you run the engine just long enough to get it running smoothly with no choke, then start clearing snow. If it has more power then, vs once it's hot and been working for a while, that could be a hint that valve clearances are an issue.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> The Technician's Manual here has info on valve clearances:
> https://www.snowblowerforum.com/for...3-tecumseh-technicians-handbook-4-stroke.html
> 
> And I'm sure there are YouTube videos about it.
> ...


Thanks red! I just watched some videos. It reminds me of shop class 20 years ago.

Can I check the clearnece with the engine still on the blower?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Yes. You only need access to the crankcase breather cover on the side of the engine (likely near the carb), and the spark plug.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Yes. You only need access to the crankcase breather cover on the side of the engine (likely near the carb), and the spark plug.


OK, drain the oil first? I think I took a breather cover off once before and oil poured out. 

Do I take the head off too to make sure the piston is flush with the top and then check clearance? 

Thanks again, Red!


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

No need to drain the oil first. There might be a little bit in the breather area, but there's a drain in there to let it back into the crankcase. It should be above the crankcase's oil level. 

I've never pulled the head for this. I stick a pencil, or similar, down through the spark plug hole, and use it to feel the piston's position. You can carefully use the pull-starter to get it until the piston is at top-dead-center, on the compression stroke (both valves closed, they should have a small clearance under each valve stem). Or you can remove the belt cover, and turn the crankshaft back/forth by hand, until the piston is at the top on the compression stroke.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Breather cover? Isn't this an OHV engine where you would take off the valve cover, or did I miss something? I didn't think there were any flatheads in the AX models. ????


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

From his video, it briefly showed the engine, it looked like a flathead Tecumseh to me. Sorry if I'm making bad assumptions! 



OK, in post #14, "It's a Tecumseh lh318sa 9hp". I think that's a flathead/L-head.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

I must be blurring threads in Mr Brain . . . thought I remembered it being an AX-254 . . . must have been a different one . . . Carry on!


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Good eye guys. It is a flathead L.

I can't wait to check the valve clearance tomorrow. Even though we're supposed to get an inch and half or rain. Could be 15" of snow, but.....


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> From his video, it briefly showed the engine, it looked like a flathead Tecumseh to me. Sorry if I'm making bad assumptions!
> 
> 
> 
> OK, in post #14, "It's a Tecumseh lh318sa 9hp". I think that's a flathead/L-head.


We'll looks like you are right. According to this it is a OHV.
http://progreengrass.com/tecumseh-engine-intake-exhaust-valve-clearances/


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I wouldn't put complete faith in a single list that's just showing descriptions. 

This shows a LH318SA that is a flathead: 

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...l/lh318sa/lh318sa-156527g/engine-parts-list-1

A picture of your engine will answer this easily. If it looks like this, it's a flathead: 

http://jnemes.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/HMSK80Mag.27594436.JPG


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> I wouldn't put complete faith in a single list that's just showing descriptions.
> 
> This shows a LH318SA that is a flathead:
> 
> ...


That's exactly what it looks like.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Should I go through the trouble of checking valve clearance? Or just buy a adjustable carb?

Also, I'll do the test tonight of trying it under load cold, then after it has warmed up. 

If it bogs down while cold and hot it means what? 

If it runs normal cold=valves need adjustment? 

Thanks again!


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

IMO, I'd still check the valve clearances. It's not hard to do, and might help discover a problem. Or at least cross something off the list, if they're fine. 

If it's good when the engine's cold, but weak when it's hot, that would make me suspect valves. Or possibly an ignition coil problem (from another similar thread at the moment). 

If it's weak when cold, then maybe the carb isn't tuned quite right, but I'm sure there could be other explanations too.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Does that engine have points ignition? Timing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

groomerz said:


> Does that engine have points ignition? Timing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not sure.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> IMO, I'd still check the valve clearances. It's not hard to do, and might help discover a problem. Or at least cross something off the list, if they're fine.
> 
> If it's good when the engine's cold, but weak when it's hot, that would make me suspect valves. Or possibly an ignition coil problem (from another similar thread at the moment).
> 
> If it's weak when cold, then maybe the carb isn't tuned quite right, but I'm sure there could be other explanations too.


Thanks RedOctobyr. It's currently 5 degrees in Cedarburg, WI, so I may hold off a few days. We're supposed to get 3-5 tomorrow night so that should be a good test again. 

Here's an interesting thing. I snowblower a 400 foot path from the road to the septic with no problems. Snow was between 6" and a foot plus in areas. Not a single problem. The machine was running for at least 5 minutes before..


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

groomerz said:


> Does that engine have points ignition? Timing


I don't think it's points, it's a fairly recent Ariens. 



Harry Doyle said:


> Here's an interesting thing. I snowblower a 400 foot path from the road to the septic with no problems. Snow was between 6" and a foot plus in areas. Not a single problem. The machine was running for at least 5 minutes before..


As in it had good/normal power? The engine would be putting out quite a bit of heat while blowing decent snow. But if it's something like a bad coil, maybe the cold ambient temperatures are helping keep the coil cool for a while.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Test compression 3 times when cold , after 2 minutes as still running good, and later when has no power, Free compression rental at autozone 

Test wide open throttle no choke ign off use electric starter and report back 

Tight valves should show lower compression if you want to confirm before digging in


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

groomerz said:


> Test compression 3 times when cold , after 2 minutes as still running good, and later when has no power, Free compression rental at autozone
> 
> Test wide open throttle no choke ign off use electric starter and report back
> 
> ...


. I will try this sequence. Thanks! Got 4-6 of fluff coming tonight. I wish it was wet so I could test it some more.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

It's not perfect, but if you want to put a bigger load on it, aim the chute straight ahead, and point it down right in front of the blower. 

Now as you drive, you can try to build up an increasingly big pile of snow. Applying a bigger and bigger load. 

Or, during long passes, aim the snow down into the area you need to clear next. Giving you kind of double weight on the next pass, etc.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

I tried hitting 8 inches of icy snow when cold. It bogged down. Applied choke and didn't help.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Have you tested to see if the governor is working?


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

cranman said:


> Have you tested to see if the governor is working?


I see it opening all the way when under load.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

How fast are you moving forward when it bogs? Most machines I have owned or used won't run very fast into 8" of lead like snow . . .


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

tadawson said:


> How fast are you moving forward when it bogs? Most machines I have owned or used won't run very fast into 8" of lead like snow . . .


I have it in the lowest gear. Which is kinda fast if you ask me.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

How is your reverse speed? Might it be possible that the engine is fine, and the shift linkage off, not allowing an appropriate speed for conditions? The more I read on this, the more it sounds like it isn't an engine problem . . . and in heavy/deep stuff, I can bog my 369cc 24" as well if I overfeed it . . .


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

tadawson said:


> How is your reverse speed? Might it be possible that the engine is fine, and the shift linkage off, not allowing an appropriate speed for conditions? The more I read on this, the more it sounds like it isn't an engine problem . . . and in heavy/deep stuff, I can bog my 369cc 24" as well if I overfeed it . . .


8 had a ariens 724 and it moved much slower in first. So maybe.... I could look into that too.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

It's a pretty easy thing to try/adjust, anyways. And you can always put it back. I slowed down my first gear, I wanted it as more of a "creeper", for inching into snowbanks.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

All over the the place trying to figure things out. In order to diagnose the problem, you must do so in an orderly fashion. Jumping all around isn't going to do it. 
You need spark (strong) Test
You need fuel (fresh) Drain and refill if neccessary
You need compression (strong) Do a compression check
Check governor: disconnect springs and use hand to move gov as you put in under a load. Does it retain full power
Check the flywheel key, Take it out and look to see if it's worn, chipped ,bent etc. 


If those check out :
check oil
check carb for air leaks
check valve clearance
Check fuel lines
clean or replace carb ( not getting enough fuel)

If all those check out, then it's internal.
If you choose not to test these components, I wish you the best. A lot of people have given you very good advice.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

russ01915 said:


> All over the the place trying to figure things out. In order to diagnose the problem, you must do so in an orderly fashion. Jumping all around isn't going to do it.
> You need spark (strong) Test
> You need fuel (fresh) Drain and refill if neccessary
> You need compression (strong) Do a compression check
> ...


hi, thanks for the detailed post.

I have done the following :
Replaced carb
Checked compression, (80psi) cold
Changed fuel, but not lines or shut off. 
New spark plug, gapped properly 
Fresh oil. Tecumseh manual says 26oz, however it doesn't register on the Dipstick as full.... So that's weird. New oem Dipstick ordered. 

I'm going to replace the gas shut off and lines as the may be gummed up. Then move on to valve clearance. 

You are right, I have gotten a ton of very helpful advice from this forum. And I'm very grateful for it. Most people would just go buy a new machine. But I know I can fix it with the help of the pros here on this forum.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Harry Doyle said:


> hi, thanks for the detailed post.
> 
> I have done the following :
> Replaced carb
> ...


Close the fuel shut off, Disconnect the fuel line to the carb, and place the end in cannister. Turn on the fuel shut off. The fuel should be flowing freely. If not remove the gas cap and see if the flow improves. If You have gas flowing freely, move on to the next step. 

Drop the bowl on carb after shutting off the fuel shut off. Is the bowl full of gas. Is there and debris in the bowl? If there is, it is the fuel supply. Tank, lines, shut off valve, and any filters that are in line. Clean the carb and replace anything between the carb and tank

Why was the carb replaced?


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

russ01915 said:


> Harry Doyle said:
> 
> 
> > hi, thanks for the detailed post.
> ...


Hi, I'll try your fuel line suggestions.

I replaced carb after cleaning the OEM one didn't resolve the issue. I figured I didn't clean it well enough.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Just gets better and better.....

Muffler is red hot, and I have blue flames, just like a torch!

Must be a stuck exhaust valve. Or streached.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

I would think that if actually stuck, you could not start it. Check the valve clearances! That will reduce power as well . . .

Oh, and they don't stretch - the seats wear over time.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

First thing I would check is the valve clearance. If they are tight, you will lose a lot of power, especially when the engine heats up. If it is a "Snowking" engine, a Chinese LCT engine that makes Tecumseh engines now since they went out of business quite a few years ago, you most likely have tight valves. I would also turn off your fuel valve everytime you shut off the engine. I usually shut off the valve and let the engine run until it stalls out. It only takes a little more than 2 P.S.I. of pressure in the fuel line to open the float valve and flood the carb. The resulting fuel will enter the cylinder and leak past the piston rings and end up in your engine oil, contaminating the oil and thinning it out, eventually leading to serious engine damage. A firt sign would be over full oil level, and thinned out oil with the smell of gasoline in it. Those LCT engines are extremely poor built engines, I would avoid them at all costs. Their quality control is non existent in their manufacturing and they use extremely poor quality materials to manufacture their engines.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

ST1100A said:


> First thing I would check is the valve clearance. If they are tight, you will lose a lot of power, especially when the engine heats up. If it is a "Snowking" engine, a Chinese LCT engine that makes Tecumseh engines now since they went out of business quite a few years ago, you most likely have tight valves. I would also turn off your fuel valve everytime you shut off the engine. I usually shut off the valve and let the engine run until it stalls out. It only takes a little more than 2 P.S.I. of pressure in the fuel line to open the float valve and flood the carb. The resulting fuel will enter the cylinder and leak past the piston rings and end up in your engine oil, contaminating the oil and thinning it out, eventually leading to serious engine damage. A firt sign would be over full oil level, and thinned out oil with the smell of gasoline in it. Those LCT engines are extremely poor built engines, I would avoid them at all costs. Their quality control is non existent in their manufacturing and they use extremely poor quality materials to manufacture their engines.


I think the engine was made in 2006. But I do get fuel in the oil. I have since started using the shut off and running it dry. 

I get this white substance on my Dipstick though.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

I'm going to purchase a feeler gauge tonight after work and check the valves. I'm getting close to taking it into my local shop though.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Harry Doyle said:


> I'm going to purchase a feeler gauge tonight after work and check the valves. I'm getting close to taking it into my local shop though.


There is no shame in admitting defeat. I think you are making a wise decision taking it to the shop. If you are capable of checking the valves, then do so.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

russ01915 said:


> Harry Doyle said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to purchase a feeler gauge tonight after work and check the valves. I'm getting close to taking it into my local shop though.
> ...


Based on the videos I have watched, I understand how to reach the valves, how to achieve dead center, and what the clearance should be. So I'll give it a shot.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Improper exhaust valve clearance could be causing the exhaust valve not to fully seat. This will not only burn the exhaust valve it will cause the muffler to get very hot. May also be too little lash in the exhaust valve. This would keep the exhaust valve from closing completely during the combustion stroke and sending some of the burning fuel out the valve through the muffler where it finishes burning. Pull the lifter cover and check out the valve clearance both valves. Good luck keep us informed

It could also be a very lean carb, blown head gasket or even a loose carburetor or a bad carb intake gasket.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

russ01915 said:


> Improper exhaust valve clearance could be causing the exhaust valve not to fully seat. This will not only burn the exhaust valve it will cause the muffler to get very hot. May also be too little lash in the exhaust valve. This would keep the exhaust valve from closing completely during the combustion stroke and sending some of the burning fuel out the valve through the muffler where it finishes burning. Pull the lifter cover and check out the valve clearance both valves. Good luck keep us informed
> 
> It could also be a very lean carb, blown head gasket or even a loose carburetor or a bad carb intake gasket.


My local shop said they don't do valve replacements. Yikes! What am I getting myself into? 

Assuming the clearence is off, how do I remove the valve? Should I just buy new valves or try filing them down? 

Thanks!


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Unless they are burned, you don't replace them - you simply adjust the clearance. If the seats are worn, new valves will likely need adjusting as well . . .


- Tim


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Bring it to the shop and let them diagnose the problem. This may all stem from the carb replacement along with needing valve adjustments.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

ST1100A said:


> . . . I would also turn off your fuel valve everytime you shut off the engine. I usually shut off the valve and let the engine run until it stalls out. It only takes a little more than 2 P.S.I. of pressure in the fuel line to open the float valve and flood the carb. The resulting fuel will enter the cylinder and leak past the piston rings and end up in your engine oil, contaminating the oil and thinning it out, eventually leading to serious engine damage. . .



I can't see how the oil contamination issue could happen on an L head. On every one I have owned, the carb is a good inch *below* the intake port on the head, so any fuel leaking past the needle would simply run out the intake, and could not flow uphill into the head and block . . .


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

russ01915 said:


> Bring it to the shop and let them diagnose the problem. This may all stem from the carb replacement along with needing valve adjustments.


Respectfully, he (and we!  ) is far enough down the path that I want to know how the story ends  

I'd say at least *check* the clearance first, then decide what to do. If it's too tight, maybe try adjusting it in-place, as has been described.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Yeah, I'm going to check the clearance tonight. And don't worry, we'll see this through.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Before you did the double pulley upgrade, was the machine working properly? In heavy wet snow, not to many machines, if any, can go above 1st & 2nd gear.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

russ01915 said:


> Before you did the double pulley upgrade, was the machine working properly? In heavy wet snow, not to many machines, if any, can go above 1st & 2nd gear.


I got the machine used, and only had powder. I had to replace the belt so I did the upgrade. Then we got heavy wet snow.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Oh boy! There is literally zero clearance. I couldn't even get a. 002 under the exhaust valve. Intake just as bad. Enjoy these pics. Please not the lack of muffler gasket. Also the ignition coil! Yikes!

Are both valves supposed to be open at dead center? 

Is this motor trashed?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Its rare but it can happen. If your fuel tank is mounted below the carb it probably wont ever happen but if the tank is mounted above the carb, with gravity flow, it can happen. I have seen machines tipped over, or found soaked air filter elements and also fuel that ran down the breather tubes and got into the crankcase through the breather port on the valve cover. I always play it safe and shut the fuel off when not in use. Just remember to turn the fuel back on when you want to run the engine again.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Harry Doyle said:


> Oh boy! There is literally zero clearance. I couldn't even get a. 002 under the exhaust valve. Intake just as bad. Enjoy these pics. Please not the lack of muffler gasket. Also the ignition coil! Yikes!
> 
> Are both valves supposed to be open at dead center?
> 
> Is this motor trashed?


No, but then again, it *is* a 4 cycle engine, so there are two different points in the cycle when the piston is at TDC - make sure you have the right one. Rotate the crank a full turn and see if they close any more - if they do, you were inthe wrong place, and recheck. If not, they simply need adjusting. (I'm suspecting that you are on the wrong half of the cycle, when the exhaust is closing and intake opening, and seeing the overlap, as opposed to the top of the compression stroke when both are fully closed. That, and you would not see compression or be able to start it with that much opening at compression . . .)

And no, valve wear and a missing gasket is hardly trashed - just normal wear coupled with a bit of prior stupidity . . .


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

ST1100A said:


> Its rare but it can happen. If your fuel tank is mounted below the carb it probably wont ever happen but if the tank is mounted above the carb, with gravity flow, it can happen. I have seen machines tipped over, or found soaked air filter elements and also fuel that ran down the breather tubes and got into the crankcase through the breather port on the valve cover. I always play it safe and shut the fuel off when not in use. Just remember to turn the fuel back on when you want to run the engine again.


Older L heads don't have that path either - the breather vents to the atmosphere.

Tipping it over is another story . . . that's maintenance, not a daily thing . . .

40+ years of L heads here, and fuel only shutoff at the end of the season, never a problem (other than seal failures on the shutoff). I'll take my chances leaving it open, since it has been my experience that I have had far more fuel leakage from worn shutoffs . . .


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

tadawson said:


> Older L heads don't have that path either - the breather vents to the atmosphere.
> 
> Tipping it over is another story . . . that's maintenance, not a daily thing . . .
> 
> 40+ years of L heads here, and fuel only shutoff at the end of the season, never a problem (other than seal failures on the shutoff). I'll take my chances leaving it open, since it has been my experience that I have had far more fuel leakage from worn shutoffs . . .


Hi Tadawson. I have a few old "Simple city" tractors, 67-69 era that have the 10, 12, and 16hp cast iron Briggs with breather hoses that it has happened to.They have the large two piece flow jet updraft carbs on them.The floats went bad and after some time they really filled up the carbs with plenty of fuel. It ran down the breather tubes, also it hydro locked the engine when trying to crank them over. Rare but it happened. Being tipped over is not a common thing, maintenance at times, had some that were vandalized and knocked over, and some that customers parked improperly, there own stupidity, and let them lay on there sides. I had a few fuel valves leak through the seals and leaked externally, worn shutoffs. Ethanol gas doesn't help there too much either.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Harry Doyle said:


> Oh boy! There is literally zero clearance. I couldn't even get a. 002 under the exhaust valve. Intake just as bad. Enjoy these pics. Please not the lack of muffler gasket. Also the ignition coil! Yikes!
> 
> Are both valves supposed to be open at dead center?
> 
> Is this motor trashed?


As tadawson said, rotate the engine 1 full turn, and see if the valves close at TDC. That's the position you want to use for measuring clearance. 

I don't remember if my L-heads had muffler gaskets. 

What are you referring to with the ignition coil? The rust on all the surfaces? You can run some sandpaper over the magnets on the flywheel, if you want. I think you can do that on the coil surface that faces the magnets as well, but maybe someone else can chime in on that. It doesn't really matter if the surfaces are rusty, though.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Harry Doyle said:
> 
> 
> > Oh boy! There is literally zero clearance. I couldn't even get a. 002 under the exhaust valve. Intake just as bad. Enjoy these pics. Please not the lack of muffler gasket. Also the ignition coil! Yikes!
> ...


Thanks, I'll check with the valves closed at TDC.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

I'll check the parts diagram and see if there is a muffler gasket.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Harry Doyle said:
> 
> 
> > Oh boy! There is literally zero clearance. I couldn't even get a. 002 under the exhaust valve. Intake just as bad. Enjoy these pics. Please not the lack of muffler gasket. Also the ignition coil! Yikes!
> ...


Your memory is sharp. No muffler gasket in parts diagram.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Here's my advice, put the machine back together and bring it to the shop. Stop playing with the machine and let a qualified person rectify the problem. I mean no disrespect to anyone.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

russ01915 said:


> Here's my advice, put the machine back together and bring it to the shop. Stop playing with the machine and let a qualified person rectify the problem. I mean no disrespect to anyone.


None taken. This is the first machine that has defeated me. My plan is to take it in tomorrow.

I just checked the valve clearance again with both valves closed. 
Intake had a max of. 006 should be. 008-.012
Exhaust was too tight for the thinnest gauge. Should be minimum of. 203.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

At least there's a good chance you've now identified your problem. Exhaust valve has essentially no clearance, and intake is too tight as well (don't have the manual handy, assuming your listed 0.008-0.012” is correct for your engine). 

So it's likely that your valves are staying open a little while running, especially as things heat up. 

You *can* adjust this yourself, if you're inclined. Maybe without even removing the valves, from what people have described. Or tell the shop what you found, and ask them to fix it. 

Either way, I'm glad you got a better understanding of what's at least a likely root-cause.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

You have already done the 'heavy lifting' on the valve work, so just finish the process! It's not terribly difficult, and there are ways to do it without even taking the valves out . . . and I think that most of us here would bet decent money that the exhaust valve is your problem . . .


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

A thin flat chainsaw file between the valve and keeper, a few strokes, check, repeat until right clearance. You are on the right path...don't give up. The OPE shop will tell you to scrap it.....


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

How do you keep the valve open while you do that? I'm imagining keeping the valve open, then filing just the back of the valve itself. 

Do you put something like a popsicle stick under the valve head while it's open, then rotate the crankshaft to retract the valve "lifter", giving you a gap between the two? 

Alternately, I guess you could temporarily hold the valve open with something, then let it "close" on the file, and slide it for a few strokes.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

One sided file . . .


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

****. That does sound easy. I could have done that. Every valve video I watched had you pull them out. I could see myself pulling it, filing it, put it back in like 20 times. Filing in place would have been very simple. Unfortunately I already threw in the towel. It's in for repair. I should know by Wednesday.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Well, at least you were able to point them to the problem, vs the shop spending labor time looking for causes, or replacing parts. Let us know how it performs when it's back!


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Well, at least you were able to point them to the problem, vs the shop spending labor time looking for causes, or replacing parts. Let us know how it performs when it's back!


I plan on snowblowing some of their pile before I leave with it. Just to make sure!


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Harry Doyle said:


> ****. That does sound easy. I could have done that. Every valve video I watched had you pull them out. I could see myself pulling it, filing it, put it back in like 20 times. Filing in place would have been very simple. Unfortunately I already threw in the towel. It's in for repair. I should know by Wednesday.


It's even easier than that. You can probe for piston position down the plug hole and leave the head on . . .


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

I heard back from the shop today. They suggested a full engine REPLACEMENT. LCT 930670209 for a cost of $700.00.

Then I asked what it would cost to get the current engine running. To grind the valves, and replace the muffler it would be $325.

They can get the LCT engine for me for $546.

I think I'm going to just have them fix the current engine. Any thoughts?


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Should have done it yourself for $30 in tools . . . Nobody seems to want to do service anymore - just replace, replace, replace!

And yes, if it's otherwise in good shape, I'd be inclined to keep the Tec as well. . . . I'm sure other opinions will vary . . .

And are they proposing a full grind, as in recondition seats, etc. for that $$$, or just setting clearance?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Geez. I would be reluctant to spend that much for either solution, I guess. 

What about talking it home, and grinding the valve clearances yourself? Cheap (just need a file, if you do it in-place), and not difficult. Plus you don't have a lot to lose. 

If that fixes it, great! If not, you could take it back to them and them fix the current engine. 

Other options include looking for a used engine. Or doing a swap yourself to a Predator engine. But grinding the valves in-place sounds like a fairly simple and cheap place to start, IMO.

What's the muffler for?


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

I should have tried it myself. I just didn't fell confident in being able to get them as accurate as they should.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Even if you chose to remove the valves, you can use digital calipers to check their length, to 0.001'. If you need another 0.006", measure their original length and keep going until they measure 0.006" shorter. Should minimize the installing/removing iterations.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

That's why I siad $30 in tools - the head was already off, so a $20 valve spring compressor and a file would do it. No real reason not to pull the valves at this point . . .


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

I see three options:
1. Have them do the valves for $325. If anything goes wrong they own it. I presume they with clean, grind and lap the valves and adjust as needed
2. You take the machine home and do it.
3. You buy a new engine and swap it out.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

www.brandnewengines.com 208 cc snow engine for $79 delivered. You have to shim the 1 inch pulley a little to fit the 25mm shaft, but I just used a couple of strips of aluminum flashing ...no biggie. Or grind the valves...not rocket science....or buy a used running Tecumseh for $50....don't knuckle under to the MAN....


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

www.brandnewengines.com 208 cc snow engine for $79 delivered. You have to shim the 1 inch pulley a little to fit the 25mm shaft, but I just used a couple of strips of aluminum flashing ...no biggie. Or grind the valves...not rocket science....or buy a used running Tecumseh for $50....don't knuckle under to the MAN....heck I can sell you a great blower all serviced for less then they want for the valve job.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Heck, you can buy a LCT 930670209 for $200ish yourself...


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

tabora said:


> Heck, you can buy a LCT 930670209 for $200ish yourself...


I've looked, I can't find them online.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

russ01915 said:


> I see three options:
> 1. Have them do the valves for $325. If anything goes wrong they own it. I presume they with clean, grind and lap the valves and adjust as needed
> 2. You take the machine home and do it.
> 3. You buy a new engine and swap it out.


I opted for number 1.
I hang my head in shame. But I feel good about my decesion.

I would assume they would stand behind there work.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I would ask what they do as part of the valve job. I hope it's more than just adjusting the clearances.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

I hope so too, RedOctobyr.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Harry Doyle said:


> I've looked, I can't find them online.


Oh well, apparently the small engine discount site has gone offline... Too bad.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

How can I find out if this would fit?


https://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/shop/html/pages/products/snow_blower_engines1814.html


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Harry Doyle said:


> I opted for number 1.
> I hang my head in shame. But I feel good about my decesion.
> 
> I would assume they would stand behind there work.


There is nothing to be ashamed of. You gave a good fight.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

russ01915 said:


> Harry Doyle said:
> 
> 
> > I opted for number 1.
> ...


I appreciate that. I learned a long time ago that if you try to do something that your not sure of, it will most likely cost more in the long run.


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## Harry Doyle (Oct 21, 2018)

Well, I got the 926le back on Friday. Man what a huge difference. The shop did a full valve job. It starts on the first pull, not the 3rd or 4th as it was. It sounds much different too. Sounds new. I ran it through the back yard which is about 125 feet long,10"of snow with no loss of power.

Now it's going to be 60 next week. I'm hoping for another major snowstorm to really have some fun!


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Congrats, that's awesome! I'm glad they were able to get it running better. If you get some snow to play in, send it our way after it's done with you!


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## Fat City (Feb 11, 2017)

JD2391 Doubts an overflowing carbruator can cause fuel to enter crankcase. If enough fuel enters cylinder, it will leak past rings, diluting oil. I agree, Gray Oil = Water in Oil . Changing Oil and Fresh Gas is a good start, a spec of dirt can prop needle valve open . Water in fuel can crush carb float if it freezes . Old fuel lines can put rubber flakes in fuel system . I'm sure it's a minor problem .


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