# Hand Crank vs Electric Start. Why doesn't it always turn manually?



## Dannoman (Jan 16, 2018)

Most of the time my old Tecumseh starts no problem with one or two pulls. But on colder days - or days it has not been in service for a while - I sometimes need to resort to using the electric starter. This might be a silly question but why is that?


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Expansion/contraction of metal of the carb or gas changing in cold


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

All my 5 gal. gas cans immediately get Stabil and half the rate of SeaFoam.

Also, these small engines should be using a Full Synthetic 5W30 motor oil.

My machines start fine in cold or warm weather.

Note also, use the primer and choke properly.

You could also have many other issues, i.e., bad plug, bad wire, clogged fuel line, etc., etc....


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## ou2mame (Dec 23, 2019)

yeah i'm assuming either its a gasoline problem, or a carb problem since it does run fine once started. So clean your carb and make sure you use a fuel additive.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

How old of a Tech ? Does it have a primer bulb and have you checked to see if maybe the primer line has deteriorated ? Usually starts to disintegrate at the carb. The fuel breaks the rubber down.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

The old Tecs I had didn't have a bulb primer - they had that push button and plate system, which, while it worked, basically was a PITA. That, and the old Tec recoil starters were plastic, and broke if you looked at them funny . . . So yes, the electric will do better simply because it moves more air and can pull more charge in to get things going more quickly - and I don't think any amount of cleaning or tuning can alter that - you just plain can't keep it spinning (or at the same speed) with the recoil as the electric. 



What we were told years ago (and has never failed me) on these old L heads is to go to full throttle, switch on (if you have one), choke *OFF*, hit the electric starter, and then with it running, flip the choke to full until it fires, and immediately back it off a position or two. Started every time in 1 to 2 seconds, no matter the temp, and reduces the risk of flooding vs. starting with full choke. 



So, in my experience, I call it normal . . . .


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## DuffyJr (Oct 15, 2015)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> How old of a Tech ? Does it have a primer bulb and have you checked to see if maybe the primer line has deteriorated ? Usually starts to disintegrate at the carb. The fuel breaks the rubber down.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQnxze7Hnhg


Amazing how much easier they start when that primer bulb is in working order. DonBoy never ceases to amaze me at how thorough he is.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I drill a hole in my carb cover just in front of the carb...big enough to put a straw from a carb cleaner can. ( no electric in my shed). half choke,,,,one squirt....pull the recoil....fire in the hole!....why work hard????


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

Dannoman said:


> Most of the time my old Tecumseh starts no problem with one or two pulls. But on colder days - or days it has not been in service for a while - I sometimes need to resort to using the electric starter. This might be a silly question but why is that?


I have a hard time starting any of my 8hp snowblowers when the motor is cold but it is me and not the machine, most times I can't get the motor turning fast enough using the recoil and have to use the electric start. once the engine is warm it gets a little easier to use the recoil to start the engine


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

detdrbuzzard said:


> I have a hard time starting any of my 8hp snowblowers when the motor is cold but it is me and not the machine, most times I can't get the motor turning fast enough using the recoil and have to use the electric start. once the engine is warm it gets a little easier to use the recoil to start the engine


:iagree: Same here. That's why I spend the extra couple bucks for synthetic oil. Seems when it's well below zero it helps to let the engine turn over faster. Easier on the arm :grin:
I rarely use the electric start but when you're worn out and looking at a driveway full of snow it's sure nice to have.

.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Runs Good, but Hard to Start? Replace Condenser if Equipped with Points Ignition.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Anything is harder to start after it sits a while.
Any small aspect from plugs to ignition and even local conditions (cold and lots of condensation in the  cylinder ) and push it into a hard start. 

It does not sound like its an issue you really want to (or need to) resolve and there is no pat answer as it can be anything from the sparky end to the fuel end.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

whats your starting procedure? usually full throttle/full choke and prime it still you see fuel start dripping on the ground and should usually start on 1 or 2 pulls. heck even my machine without a primer use to start with 1 or 2 pulls with full throttle and full choke. if you don't see fuel drip on the ground after priming enough then there is likely a leak somewhere in the primer system.


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

In a Kohler manual I have, it states the correct way to used a recoil starter is to slowly turn over the engine until the piston is just past TDC on compression stroke. Allow rope to recoil then pull smartly.

The crankshaft will then need to complete 540 degrees rotation before you'll begin to feel the resistance of the next compression stroke. By then, the flywheel will have developed sufficient momentum and kinetic energy to easily carry the piston through the compression stroke. Additionally, the engine's rotating speed will be fast enough during the intake stroke for air passing through the carburetor's venturi to lower its pressure; vacuum dragging fuel from the float bowl, through the main jet and into the venturi. 

When the engine is cold, the atomized fuel (emulsified with air) exits the carburetor and enters the cold intake manifold where the gas can not fully vaporize until the manifold is warm. A rich fuel:air mixture compensates for incomplete vaporization until the intake manifold has warmed up.


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## Dannoman (Jan 16, 2018)

tadawson said:


> The old Tecs I had didn't have a bulb primer - they had that push button and plate system, which, while it worked, basically was a PITA. That, and the old Tec recoil starters were plastic, and broke if you looked at them funny . . . So yes, the electric will do better simply because it moves more air and can pull more charge in to get things going more quickly - and I don't think any amount of cleaning or tuning can alter that - you just plain can't keep it spinning (or at the same speed) with the recoil as the electric.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I did not know about this choke off & then on method. Thanks!


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## Dannoman (Jan 16, 2018)

crazzywolfie said:


> whats your starting procedure? usually full throttle/full choke and prime it still you see fuel start dripping on the ground and should usually start on 1 or 2 pulls. heck even my machine without a primer use to start with 1 or 2 pulls with full throttle and full choke. if you don't see fuel drip on the ground after priming enough then there is likely a leak somewhere in the primer system.



This is exactly what I always do. I guess if the machine is not in use for a while it can be condensation making it a rough start. I will get in the habit of revving her off at least once a week now. PS - There is no leak in the primer line. I checked.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Dannoman said:


> There is no leak in the primer line. I checked.


i was not necessarily referring to a leaking primer line. if the float bowl seal it too old/dried out and leaking it will prevent the primer from doing anything or require a lot of priming to get any fuel pushed up into the venturi. seen this a lot more often on mowers i serviced this summer. most went from needing 5-10 primes down to 2-3 needed for starting.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

tadawson said:


> The old Tecs I had didn't have a bulb primer - they had that push button and plate system, which, while it worked, basically was a PITA. That, and the old Tec recoil starters were plastic, and broke if you looked at them funny . . . So yes, the electric will do better simply because it moves more air and can pull more charge in to get things going more quickly - and I don't think any amount of cleaning or tuning can alter that - you just plain can't keep it spinning (or at the same speed) with the recoil as the electric.
> 
> What we were told years ago (and has never failed me) on these old L heads is to go to full throttle, switch on (if you have one), choke *OFF*, hit the electric starter, and then with it running, flip the choke to full until it fires, and immediately back it off a position or two. Started every time in 1 to 2 seconds, no matter the temp, and reduces the risk of flooding vs. starting with full choke.
> 
> So, in my experience, I call it normal . . . .


I have an older Ariens that came with that setup, and I had a bear of a time starting it. I gave up and put a different carb, choke and primer bulb onto it. No more starting problems so the change was worth it to me.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

I never had a problem starting mine - I just chose to do it that way. I tended to use the electric since the plastic Tec recoil starters were fragile, nothing more. Our next blower, circa mid 1980's I started the same way and ignored the primer as well as unneeded with that technique and the electric starter. Never found a winter engine that that technique did not work on, regardless of whether it had a primer or not. No need to replace anything, since there was never a problem on mine . . .


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I like the Yamaha approach. 

No primer to guess at, you just set choke, set it at minim throttle and way it goes. All self regulating like any good engine should be (and that as before FI) 

I find it amazing and crude in this day and age they are still using Primers. I thought those went out with the Model T?


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

Dannoman said:


> Most of the time my old Tecumseh starts no problem with one or two pulls. But on colder days - or days it has not been in service for a while - I sometimes need to resort to using the electric starter. This might be a silly question but why is that?


hand crank? i have a 1929 lister diesel thats hand crank but snowblowers are pull start. :smile_big:

I have both and never use the electric start. Mine start on first or second pull .


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