# Cub Cadet will not start



## Shanebala

Hello everyone - I have been told to come to this website to ask the gurus for help so here I am.

Cub Cadet snowblower model - 31AM53LR596
I have been told it is an MTD engine - model - 370 - SUB 0908202A0475

Before storing the snowblower last year I did not drain the gas or change the oil.

I tried starting the machine last weekend but it would not start.
I replaced the spark plug and cleaned the carburetor after watching a few youtube videos.

I accidentally placed the float pin the wrong way which caused gas to leak from the carburetor. I corrected this and started it again, gas stopped leaking from the carburetor but the engine was idling rough and turned off within 5 seconds. I tried starting it again and now it will not start even with the electric start.

Can any of you help me understand why it won't start?

Thank you very much


----------



## SlowRider22

Sounds like a lack of fuel. A couple things to ponder about...
Is there a fuel shut-off nozzle, and if so, is it turned off
When you cleaned the carburetor, did you replace the screws in the same locations as previous? 
Did you properly adjust the screws on the carburetor
You may have replaced the float needle incorrectly and now is stuck, thereby preventing the flow of gas

And as a side note, you didn't mention that you changed the oil. I'm sure you probably just forget to type it in the paragraph with the new plug and carb cleaning, but if not then make sure you do that before the snow files.


----------



## sscotsman

you also didnt mention if you "changed the gas"! 
Did you drain out all the old gas and add fresh gas?

Scot


----------



## Shanebala

Thanks for the responses guys. 
I don't think there is a fuel shut off nozzle, when watching a repair video for a similar model they also didn't mention of one.

I did replace both the fuel and oil 

Here are the steps I had taken to clean the carb

1. Removed the carb bowl
2. Removed the emulsion tube and another round object that came with it. I believe it's the main jet
3. Removed float alongside pin. I noticed that my float pin actually had a spring on it. 
4. Removed rubber gasket
4. Sprayed carb cleaner in all the openings. And let it sit for 3 minutes to dry.
5. Put some motor oil on the rubber gasket seal between the carb and the bowl. Reinstalled everything back together

I didn't remove any screws outside of the one holding the bowl.
In regards to the float pin, mine has a spring on it, does the spring go at the bottom of the float or at the top. Appreciate the help guys!!


----------



## sscotsman

Is this a new, or nearly new snowblower?
if so, the engine is probably one of several flavors of the new Chinese engines..
Any chance you can post some photos of the snowblower, engine, and carb?
that would be helpful to help ID exactly what type of machine and carb we are dealign with..

Scot


----------



## 2point2

Google tells me it's a 208cc but I didn't spend any time to confirm it.

Shop manuals:
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/cub-cadet-snowblowers/24569-shop-manuals.html


----------



## Grunt

Hello and welcome to the forum Shanebala. Here is a link to the MTD engine service manual. As stated before, not sure which engine you have, so this may or may not be the correct manual. Adding some Seafoam gas additive will help clean the inside of the carb if you can at least get it running first.

Engine Service Manual-
http://service.mtdproducts.com/Trai..._bore_engines/769_04951A_big_bore_engines.pdf

Machine Service Manual-
http://service.mtdproducts.com/Training_Education/770-10580.pdf


See the links posted by 2point2 above for another engine option.


----------



## Shanebala

Thank you all for the responses!!

Speaking to a Cub Cadet service shop it is an MTD engine (Chinese Engine if im not mistaken)

The machine was purchased in 2009, i've used it every winter since then.

I found a link that shows what the carburetor looks like below:

Cub Cadet Snowblower Carburetor 951-14027A Order now for same day shipping. 365 day return policy. RepairClinic.com

I hope this helps you guys pin point what it could be!


----------



## SlowRider22

Aside from the possible carburetor issue, don't forget to check any wires that may be loose or cracked causing the machine to be grounded out


----------



## Shanebala

took the carb apart again, put two teaspoons of fuel into the sparkplug hole...It made a popping sound when using the electric start but no start...any ideas?


----------



## dbert

Shanebala said:


> In regards to the float pin, mine has a spring on it, does the spring go at the bottom of the float or at the top. Appreciate the help guys!!


Take a look at the last 15-20 seconds of this video. It's not your carb exactly, but the same huayi brand and the same springy float needle.
I wouldn't have had a clue about these Huayi carbs on these Chinese engines if I hadn't worked on one a week ago.


----------



## Grunt

Have you confirmed that you do have spark? Remove the spark plug, ground it on the motor, move the throttle to RUN, ignition switch to ON and use the electric starter to check for spark at the plug. If you have spark, pour a little gas into the plug hole, reinstall the plug and see if it will start. If it starts and dies, you DO have a carb problem that we can hopefully help you fix.


----------



## Shanebala

Could me installing the float incorrectly flood the engine and mix the oil with gas? Did this ruin my engine?


----------



## db9938

Chances are that you installed the float needle seat in reverse. You will need to rectify this, and change your oil. Some say multiple times, others say once is enough. You be the judge.


----------



## Shanebala

How does changing the oil help start the snowblower again? Stupid question I know but I'm new to this


----------



## sscotsman

Shanebala said:


> How does changing the oil help start the snowblower again? Stupid question I know but I'm new to this


Its possible a bad needle valve could have allowed gas into the engine oil..check the oil level before starting again, if the oil level has *not* increased, its probably fine..if the oil level is higher than it was, you have probably diluted the oil with gas, which means an oil drain and re-fill will be necessary..
some thoughts on that I just found on-line:

(Oil volume has *increased*)
"It is a common problem. A fuel shut of valve on gas line will fix it. Or a new needle valve in the carburetor will normally fix it. Gravity fed with a bad needle valve the gas seeps threw the carburetor and has no place to go but into the oil. So a shut of valve and turn it on when using the mower. and run out of gas to shut off. Cheap way! As engine heat will evaporate the excess gas running. Cheap. Or buy a rebuilt carb and replace it. As just replacing a needle valve will not help if the seat for it is bad. Sometimes you can adjust the float just a bit too"

Scot


----------



## Shanebala

I changed the oil and still no go..here is a video of me trying to start it


----------



## GustoGuy

Shanebala said:


> How does changing the oil help start the snowblower again? Stupid question I know but I'm new to this


If oil is thinned out and diluted with gasoline it is no longer as effective as clean non-contaminated oil is as a lubricant. Also gasoline contaminated oil will cause the engine to run poorly or not at since it affects the fuel/air ratio. I would change the oil before running it and make sure that the float valve needle is working properly and turning off the gasoline when the float is lifted to a horizontal position.


----------



## sscotsman

hmmm..
it has to be a gas-line issue, or a carb adjustment issue.
One is easy to eliminate..if the gas line is disconnected right at the carb, with gas in the tank and the fuel shut off valve open, does gas drip out of the end of the tube?
If yes, the gas line is fine, and the problem has to be the carb..

did you look at the needle again before changing the oil?

Scot


----------



## Shryp

You can pull the drain bolt off of the carb to see if gas is getting that far. When you prime it does gas squirt up into the carb? Peek through the choke and see what happens when you push the primer.

The idle jet is under the screw that controls the low speed throttle stop. You might have to pull that screw out and pull the idle jet out and clean it.

I would not think 1 years worth of gas would be enough to completely ruin the carb. I have left fuel in machines over the summer without problems. Did you remove the carb when you cleaned it or just remove the bowl with the carb still attached? Did you make sure all the linkages and springs were put back where they came from? Have you checked to see if you have spark?


----------



## Shanebala

Honestly you guys are the best, i didnt expect so many responses.

Sccotsman:
I haven't pulled the fuel line off the carb directly to check if fuel drips down yet, but i do know that if removed the fuel line directly from the tank..fuel drips down...very slowly though.. Is that a good sign? I also used compressed air to blow into the fuel line connected to the carb before putting it back on.So i know its clear.

I didnt check the float needle after changing the oil again...would it move?

Shryp
I'll check to see if the primer pumps gas into the carburetor. The blower started up instantly when i had ran it with the float on the wrong way the first time...does this eliminate the possibility of an issue with the idle jet?

I removed the entire carb when cleaning it & made sure all linkages were connected. I am confident there is a spark because when i poured gas into the spark plug and started it up it made a popping sound. Which i think means that there was combustion in the chamber.

I know someone mentioned to check the spark plug itself but how do i ground it to the engine?


----------



## Shryp

You can just remove the spark plug, plug it back in and lay it on the engine. Be careful not to hold it while doing it. Pull the rope and watch the plug. You should see a bright blue spark. It can be hard to see if very bright out though so sometimes it is best to do at night or inside with the lights off.


----------



## sscotsman

Shanebala said:


> I didnt check the float needle after changing the oil again...would it move?


If the needle valve is set correctly, it wont move..

I meant did you look at the needle again *before* changing the oil..but it sounds like you did. 

db9938 and I were both talking about changing the oil, because there could be gas in the oil, because of the needle valve issue..you would need to check the needle valve again, try to confirm that it is working properly, *then* change the oil..is that what you did?

Scot


----------



## Shryp

Also, remember that those electric starters are only meant to be run for 5-10 seconds tops before getting a break of at least 30 seconds. Don't want you to burn it out.


----------



## Shanebala

I just confirmed that there is a spark....and i just noticed that the carb is leaking fuel.. thoughts?


----------



## Shanebala

sscotsman said:


> If the needle valve is set correctly, it wont move..
> 
> I meant did you look at the needle again *before* changing the oil..but it sounds like you did.
> 
> db9938 and I were both talking about changing the oil, because there could be gas in the oil, because of the needle valve issue..you would need to check the needle valve again, try to confirm that it is working properly, *then* change the oil..is that what you did?
> 
> Scot


This is exaclty what i did sscotsman


----------



## Shanebala

Can someone confirm that when reassembling the emulsion tube the skinny end goes up into the carburetor?

similar to how it is pictured here http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/SM/SmEngPro/2013-01-23_014803_7-23-2012_5-42-51_pm.png


----------



## GustoGuy

Shanebala said:


> I just confirmed that there is a spark....and i just noticed that the carb is leaking fuel.. thoughts?


Needle valve is still leaking flooding the bowel under the carburetor. Remove the carburetor and useing carburetor cleaner spray up into the needle valve seat to clean out any fuel deposits that may be in there or use a q-tip to reach up in there to clean it out. Check the end of the needle valve does it have a rubber tip? Over the years gasoline can deteriorate the rubber vitron tips of the needle valves. Check to see if it has any irregularities on it or chunks missing from it. If the needle valve is bad you will need to replace it since it will not seal off the gas flow. As others have said you can buy another Huay Carberetor on ebay if your carburetor looks like this.

JF168 9900 Clone Honda 6 5 HP Stock Carb | eBay


----------



## Shanebala

GustoGuy said:


> Needle valve is still leaking flooding the bowel under the carburetor. Remove the carburetor and useing carburetor cleaner spray up into the needle valve seat to clean out any fuel deposits that may be in there or use a q-tip to reach up in there to clean it out. Check the end of the needle valve does it have a rubber tip? Over the years gasoline can deteriorate the rubber vitron tips of the needle valves. Check to see if it has any irregularities on it or chunks missing from it. If the needle valve is bad you will need to replace it since it will not seal off the gas flow. As others have said you can buy another Huay Carberetor on ebay if your carburetor looks like this.
> 
> JF168 9900 Clone Honda 6 5 HP Stock Carb | eBay


Thanks Gusto - Question although the carb is leaking shouldn't it still be able to start?


----------



## Shryp

Shanebala said:


> Thanks Gusto - Question although the carb is leaking shouldn't it still be able to start?


In theory, but it may be flooding the engine.


----------



## db9938

If that happens, I would check the oil level, to make sure that the crank case is not contaminated.


----------



## Grunt

Maybe my eyes are getting worse, in your video at the :008 second point, the throttle looks to be in the off position?? If so, you are not getting spark or fuel. I apologize if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## sscotsman

Grunt said:


> Maybe my eyes are getting worse, in your video at the :008 second point, the throttle looks to be in the off position?? If so, you are not getting spark or fuel. I apologize if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.


I think the throttle is in the correct position..I looked up other MTD videos, and all (that I found) show "fast" to the left..so the throttle looks ok..im not sure the choke was set correctly though..in this video:






when he sets the choke lever to "full choke" for a cold start, the dial is completely vertical..in Shanes video it looks like he has it more at a 45 degree angle..half-way between "choke" and "no choke"..that could cause it not to start:






Shane, any more luck over the weekend?

Scot


----------



## Shanebala

Hi Scott,

I did correct for the choke, i realized that in the video i did keep it slightly open.

I think i narrowed down the problem, i replaced the the drain screw on the bowl because i saw bubbles everytime i would pump the primer. After doing that the snowblower did start but died after 15 seconds. Then i noticed a bit of fuel leaking out of the main screw holding the bowl connected to the carb. After trying to tighten it some more, it eventually broke! So now i need a complete new carb, im ok with this given all the issues the old one had given me. I have ordered a new carb from a local shop for 80 bucks Canadian! Darn chinese carbs are so sensitive. Are there any online websites that you all use for snowblower parts? I'm located in Canada so shipping is expensive for me


----------



## sscotsman

wow, sorry to hear about your carb woes..but on the plus side, a new carb should solve the problems you have been having! 

In the US, some of the better-known parts suppliers are listed here:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/Ariens/Page11.html#question10

In Canada, does Sears carry MTD? From the reading I have been doing on snowblower and garden tractor forums over the years, Sears in Canada seems to be a much more reliable and efficient shop than Sears in the US..

Let us know how the new carb works out!

Scot


----------



## Shanebala

So I picked up the new carb and started it up it ran really rough and coughed blue smoke. Ran for a total of 30 seconds and shut off. Wasn't able to start it again. Choke was closed completely as well.

Any ideas what's going on with this thing? I'm really frustrated now....ughh


----------



## SlowRider22

Blown head gasket perhaps


----------



## Normex

For the 30 seconds you ran it did you have the choke closed all the time?
If so blue smoke and rough running you should put it on medium choke or less than full choke then no choke when warmed up slightly. Not restarting would be the engine is flooded and verifiable by removing spark plug and see if it's wet with gas. Just my opinion.


----------



## Shanebala

Normex said:


> For the 30 seconds you ran it did you have the choke closed all the time?
> If so blue smoke and rough running you should put it on medium choke or less than full choke then no choke when warmed up slightly. Not restarting would be the engine is flooded and verifiable by removing spark plug and see if it's wet with gas. Just my opinion.


I did have the choke closed the entire time. I didn't check the spark plug but i'll give it another try today and check to see if the spark plug is wet.

Any idea on how and why the engine gets flooded?


----------



## CarlB

black smoke rich, Blue smoke Oil. As mentioned above maybe a blown head gasket. I didn't read the entire thread but did you check the oil level in the engine? Does the oil smell like gas?


----------



## sscotsman

Shanebala said:


> I did have the choke closed the entire time. I didn't check the spark plug but i'll give it another try today and check to see if the spark plug is wet.
> 
> Any idea on how and why the engine gets flooded?


you need to open up the choke as soon as it starts..

"full choke" for a "cold start" only..("cold start" meaning it hasnt run for several hours, or days, and the engine is "cold")

then as soon as it starts, move the choke from "full choke" to "no choke"..you need to do it within 5 to 10 seconds..

Scot


----------



## sscotsman

Cold Start:
meaning the engine has not run in hours/days/weeks, and its completely "cold".
Put the choke on "full choke" when starting.
then once it starts, move it quickly (within 5 to 10 seconds) from full to open.
you dont have to whip it instantly to "no choke"! 
Do it over the course of several seconds, and gauge how the engine behaves as you move the choke lever over..the engine will tell you if its happy with the choke position or not.

Warm Start:
meaning the engine was running quite recently, from a few seconds ago, to up to perhaps 15 minutes ago, and the engine is still "warm"..
Do not start at full choke like you do for a cold start.
try starting at "no choke" and it will probably start.
if not, try starting with the choke half-way or somewhere in the range between "full" and "no choke"..you only need "full choke" when doing a cold start.

Normal running position should be "no choke", while the engine is running and the machine is operating.

Sometimes a carb that is out of adjustment will not run at "no choke" like it should, and the choke lever has to be somewhere in the middle to keep the engine running..if that happens, the carb needs adjusting.

Scot


----------



## cdestuck

Since your carb is off right now, open the fuel shut off and see if fuel come out of the fuel line ok. I just repaired a blower that no fuel was coming out of the line. I found out the line had delaminated and collapsed, blocking fuel from coming from the tank. Rotten ethanol


----------



## 43128

did you check the valve lash


----------



## [email protected]

I bought Gumout fuel system treatment fuel additive and put 1/4 in empty gas tank added some gas so 1/3 full. Let sit for three hours and it cleared clog. When started it was obviously burning out junk for first minute. Much cheaper than repairing or taking Part.


----------



## Lottstodo

As stated blue smoke indicates burning oil . Oil level is critical that it not be over full, (above full mark) as when the piston travels downward in the cylinder the lower crankcase must be able to absorb the the force of air created by the inside (cup shape) of the piston, if oil is to high (over filled) it can destroy an engine. In effect you could create a hydro shock to the back/ inside of the piston cup and can do severe engine damage.

So please until you get the carb and running problem figured out continue monitoring oil levels. 

Until you have it running and starting properly if necessary if you continue to find it (the level to high) just remove some of what is in there back to safe level and then after its fixed before running more that a few minutes , then do a complete oil change.

On another note if you take carb cleaner and spray some in the carb close your choke and try to start it, the carb cleaner will fire it when the gas wont in most cases, especially in a fuel delivery problem and as well some time for flooded engines.

I would not put fuel (gas)down the plug hole , as first that much raw fuel will wash the oil from the piston rings resulting in loss of compression and lubrication, and create a flooded engine, just adding more to the problem of not starting.

As said raw fuel is not vaporized fuel or air/ mixed fuel and without proper air /fuel ratio it will simply not ignite. 

This has to do with LELs and UELs which is Lower Explosive Limit and Upper Explosive Limit, just for better understanding


----------

