# Correction on teeth number



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Toro has discontinued the starter motor for snow thrower model 38182 (Power lite 98cc 16" part 70-7802) Tecumseh engine. The starter is non-serviceable (can't take apart to clean or replace brushes). It operates from 120Vac, has 12 teeth and is rated at 6 amps. Nobody has this. The closest Tecumseh starters on Amazon have 12 teeth which would mean a higher gear ratio. If I could find a 12 tooth unit somewhere and the price is not outrageous, I could probably fabricate an L bracket to adapt to the two mounting hole.

Is there anyone out there who has a solution to this?

Here is Toro's notification.






Adobe Acrobat







acrobat.adobe.com





Any suggestions including parts that could be modified to work would be appreciated.

Thanks


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## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Correction all the close alternatives have 16 teeth not 12.


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## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

I meant to say that others have 16 teeth which differs from 12 teeth, making a higher gear ratio causing the ring gear to turn faster and probably putting more load on the motor.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Just have to go old-school, I guess... 








Toro 16" CCR Powerlite Snow Thrower-38182 OEM USED RECOIL STARTER/ LOT WORKS | eBay


GOOD USED OEM PART LOT RECOIL HOUSING AND SUPPORT. RECOIL P/N 590743 (old # 590784). THIS WHOLE MACHINE WILL BE LISTED IF YOU NEED OTHER PARTS. BLOWER HOUSING P/N 350437 NO LONGER AVAILABLE.



www.ebay.com


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

I'm genuinely surprised that something that tiny had electric start in the first place . . .


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## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

Anything is serviceable, they put it together somehow, it will come apart the same way - drill spot welds, uncrimp flanges with linesman pliers, etc. Photos might help someone give you guidance on how to get it apart


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## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Thank you! Here is someone who thinks the same way I do. I didn't over use the starter as the instructions warned. As you can see, the pinion is not really worn. I was able to get the end off, but only just the mounting housing. I'll take some more time and will share other images. You can see though that the other end is not accessible without extracting everything.
Since there are no replacements, I'll try to get it apart and check back. Thanks.


----------



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

That starter looks like it will come apart if you undo the two through bolts. I'm guessing the bendix drive is pressed onto the rotor shaft but you can just leave it in place. Scribe the two end bells so you can reassemble the unit after repair in the correct orientation. Its quite possible that what you have are a set of worn out or sticky start up contacts. Free up the contacts if that's your problem and reassemble for no cost. If you want to spend the money they can rewind it if necessary as well. Was there an external starting capacitor?
Using the manual recoil would be cheaper.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

So the issue is finding how to free the rest of the assembly to pull out as there is only one end that comes apart. Unlike other starters, this one does not have ready access to the commutator and brushes for cleaning/replacement; the whole assembly has to be somehow released and pulled out. It is a plastic can and not a two-ended cylinder. The only part I have found as an FRU for this is the end housing on the Bendix end. That much I confirmed when I did remove the long screw and lock nuts to get that end off.

Thanks for your comments. I'm looking forward to solving the problem and learning. After all, that's why we are diy-ers in the first place, and why your comments on this site are valued.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Toon said:


> That starter looks like it will come apart if you undo the two through bolts.





Fiddler said:


> So the issue is finding how to free the rest of the assembly to pull out as there is only one end that comes apart.


As @Toon said, that should come apart pretty easily... It looks like both end caps will pry off, as well as the cord spacer.


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## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

No there is only one end. This is a plastic can, not a two-ended cylinder. When I removed the Bendix end everything else was left in the can. Only the mounting bracket end comes off. The problem is getting the remaining contents out of the can without hopefully not compromising the plastic canister in order to examine the electrical components inside. This is why the unit is listed as non-serviceable. See below.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

If you do search for 105-2953 on the web there are a couple available on E-Bay for $50 an $69.00. I don't think you can fix it cheaper unless the brushes are stuck.









It is difficult to troubleshoot it from afar but if the inside looks like this picture you may be able to pull the assembly out of the housing or drill a small hole in the back end cap and drive it out. You can then free up or service the brushes. If the motor assembly is potted into the can you are out of luck. You have nothing to lose by trying this as the starter is broken already and its hard to damage a wreck.


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## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Thank you for your research, that is going the extra mile! I'll follow up with what I encounter. Perhaps someone else cc an benefit from this discussion and your effort.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

tabora said:


> It looks like both end caps will pry off, as well as the cord spacer.





Fiddler said:


> No there is only one end. This is a plastic can, not a two-ended cylinder.


Your pictures in post #7 appear to show endcaps on both ends and a spacer for the cord entry. Your posts all seem to show different starters?


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## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

tabora said:


> Your pictures in post #7 appear to show endcaps on both ends and a spacer for the cord entry. Your posts all seem to show different starters?


The line on the nut side may just be a casting mark. 

No epoxy I've found bonded well to plastic so chances are it's just pressure fit. You can try freezing it and seeing if that helps loosen things, and/or leaving a hair dryer in front of it with the can open. I only use recoil start so haven't ever looked at one of these but have never seen a 12v automotive starter that couldn't be fixed for a few dollars in copper contacts. Generally speaking it's pretty rare for windings to short or open compared to every other thing that can go wrong in a motor. Should be an easy fix once you get it out


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I agree with Tabora. The pictures in post #7 show a motor that looks like both end caps come off. I have worked on a lot of electric motors and have yet to see a one capped motor. Not saying this one has two caps but it sure does look like both ends come off.
jbtvt this I believe is a 120Vac starter not a 12Vdc starter so the windings will be a lot finer wire and failure of the winding insulation is possible.


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## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

I wiggled the end and if there is a seam there, it is not showing itself. I also whacked the screw flanges with a rubber mallet. If there is a real seam there it may be glued. Guess it's time for a wood chisel. And yes it is a 120VAC motor.


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## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

If the wire gauge is larger that means that it's carrying lower current, due to higher voltage. The safety factor would still be roughly the same. Anything is possible which is why I said generally speaking, but even with 120v I've seen many times more motor issues causes by centrifugal switches, start capacitors, choke coils, etc than actual windings shorting or opening. It does happen and being plastic this is obviously a cheap component, so no way of knowing without a continuity test, or opening it up.


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## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

Fiddler said:


> I wiggled the end and if there is a seam there, it is not showing itself.


Are those holes in the frame threaded? Can you pull it out using them? Here is a method I've used to pull fan stators, you may be able to do something similar Antique Fan Collectors Association


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Run two screws into the holes in the body of the motor to get a grip on it, and see if it will pull out. Based on the lip around the gears on the front (and corresponding shape on the motor), it looks like that aligns it and prevents rotation and not the case, so it may simply be another boss sitting in the cup at the closed end of the motor . . .


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Toro has discontinued the starter motor for snow thrower model 38182 (Power lite 98cc 16" part 70-7802) Tecumseh engine. The starter is non-serviceable (can't take apart to clean or replace brushes). It operates from 120Vac, has 12 teeth and is rated at 6 amps. Nobody has this. The closest Tecumseh starters on Amazon have 12 teeth which would mean a higher gear ratio. If I could find a 12 tooth unit somewhere and the price is not outrageous, I could probably fabricate an L bracket to adapt to the two mounting hole.

Is there anyone out there who has a solution to this?

Here is Toro's notification.






Adobe Acrobat







acrobat.adobe.com





Any suggestions including parts that could be modified to work would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Correction all the close alternatives have 16 teeth not 12.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

I meant to say that others have 16 teeth which differs from 12 teeth, making a higher gear ratio causing the ring gear to turn faster and probably putting more load on the motor.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Just have to go old-school, I guess... 








Toro 16" CCR Powerlite Snow Thrower-38182 OEM USED RECOIL STARTER/ LOT WORKS | eBay


GOOD USED OEM PART LOT RECOIL HOUSING AND SUPPORT. RECOIL P/N 590743 (old # 590784). THIS WHOLE MACHINE WILL BE LISTED IF YOU NEED OTHER PARTS. BLOWER HOUSING P/N 350437 NO LONGER AVAILABLE.



www.ebay.com


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

I'm genuinely surprised that something that tiny had electric start in the first place . . .


----------



## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

Anything is serviceable, they put it together somehow, it will come apart the same way - drill spot welds, uncrimp flanges with linesman pliers, etc. Photos might help someone give you guidance on how to get it apart


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Thank you! Here is someone who thinks the same way I do. I didn't over use the starter as the instructions warned. As you can see, the pinion is not really worn. I was able to get the end off, but only just the mounting housing. I'll take some more time and will share other images. You can see though that the other end is not accessible without extracting everything.
Since there are no replacements, I'll try to get it apart and check back. Thanks.


----------



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

That starter looks like it will come apart if you undo the two through bolts. I'm guessing the bendix drive is pressed onto the rotor shaft but you can just leave it in place. Scribe the two end bells so you can reassemble the unit after repair in the correct orientation. Its quite possible that what you have are a set of worn out or sticky start up contacts. Free up the contacts if that's your problem and reassemble for no cost. If you want to spend the money they can rewind it if necessary as well. Was there an external starting capacitor?
Using the manual recoil would be cheaper.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

So the issue is finding how to free the rest of the assembly to pull out as there is only one end that comes apart. Unlike other starters, this one does not have ready access to the commutator and brushes for cleaning/replacement; the whole assembly has to be somehow released and pulled out. It is a plastic can and not a two-ended cylinder. The only part I have found as an FRU for this is the end housing on the Bendix end. That much I confirmed when I did remove the long screw and lock nuts to get that end off.

Thanks for your comments. I'm looking forward to solving the problem and learning. After all, that's why we are diy-ers in the first place, and why your comments on this site are valued.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Toon said:


> That starter looks like it will come apart if you undo the two through bolts.





Fiddler said:


> So the issue is finding how to free the rest of the assembly to pull out as there is only one end that comes apart.


As @Toon said, that should come apart pretty easily... It looks like both end caps will pry off, as well as the cord spacer.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

No there is only one end. This is a plastic can, not a two-ended cylinder. When I removed the Bendix end everything else was left in the can. Only the mounting bracket end comes off. The problem is getting the remaining contents out of the can without hopefully not compromising the plastic canister in order to examine the electrical components inside. This is why the unit is listed as non-serviceable. See below.


----------



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

If you do search for 105-2953 on the web there are a couple available on E-Bay for $50 an $69.00. I don't think you can fix it cheaper unless the brushes are stuck.









It is difficult to troubleshoot it from afar but if the inside looks like this picture you may be able to pull the assembly out of the housing or drill a small hole in the back end cap and drive it out. You can then free up or service the brushes. If the motor assembly is potted into the can you are out of luck. You have nothing to lose by trying this as the starter is broken already and its hard to damage a wreck.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Thank you for your research, that is going the extra mile! I'll follow up with what I encounter. Perhaps someone else cc an benefit from this discussion and your effort.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

tabora said:


> It looks like both end caps will pry off, as well as the cord spacer.





Fiddler said:


> No there is only one end. This is a plastic can, not a two-ended cylinder.


Your pictures in post #7 appear to show endcaps on both ends and a spacer for the cord entry. Your posts all seem to show different starters?


----------



## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

tabora said:


> Your pictures in post #7 appear to show endcaps on both ends and a spacer for the cord entry. Your posts all seem to show different starters?


The line on the nut side may just be a casting mark. 

No epoxy I've found bonded well to plastic so chances are it's just pressure fit. You can try freezing it and seeing if that helps loosen things, and/or leaving a hair dryer in front of it with the can open. I only use recoil start so haven't ever looked at one of these but have never seen a 12v automotive starter that couldn't be fixed for a few dollars in copper contacts. Generally speaking it's pretty rare for windings to short or open compared to every other thing that can go wrong in a motor. Should be an easy fix once you get it out


----------



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I agree with Tabora. The pictures in post #7 show a motor that looks like both end caps come off. I have worked on a lot of electric motors and have yet to see a one capped motor. Not saying this one has two caps but it sure does look like both ends come off.
jbtvt this I believe is a 120Vac starter not a 12Vdc starter so the windings will be a lot finer wire and failure of the winding insulation is possible.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

I wiggled the end and if there is a seam there, it is not showing itself. I also whacked the screw flanges with a rubber mallet. If there is a real seam there it may be glued. Guess it's time for a wood chisel. And yes it is a 120VAC motor.


----------



## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

If the wire gauge is larger that means that it's carrying lower current, due to higher voltage. The safety factor would still be roughly the same. Anything is possible which is why I said generally speaking, but even with 120v I've seen many times more motor issues causes by centrifugal switches, start capacitors, choke coils, etc than actual windings shorting or opening. It does happen and being plastic this is obviously a cheap component, so no way of knowing without a continuity test, or opening it up.


----------



## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

Fiddler said:


> I wiggled the end and if there is a seam there, it is not showing itself.


Are those holes in the frame threaded? Can you pull it out using them? Here is a method I've used to pull fan stators, you may be able to do something similar Antique Fan Collectors Association


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Run two screws into the holes in the body of the motor to get a grip on it, and see if it will pull out. Based on the lip around the gears on the front (and corresponding shape on the motor), it looks like that aligns it and prevents rotation and not the case, so it may simply be another boss sitting in the cup at the closed end of the motor . . .


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Toro has discontinued the starter motor for snow thrower model 38182 (Power lite 98cc 16" part 70-7802) Tecumseh engine. The starter is non-serviceable (can't take apart to clean or replace brushes). It operates from 120Vac, has 12 teeth and is rated at 6 amps. Nobody has this. The closest Tecumseh starters on Amazon have 12 teeth which would mean a higher gear ratio. If I could find a 12 tooth unit somewhere and the price is not outrageous, I could probably fabricate an L bracket to adapt to the two mounting hole.

Is there anyone out there who has a solution to this?

Here is Toro's notification.






Adobe Acrobat







acrobat.adobe.com





Any suggestions including parts that could be modified to work would be appreciated.

Thanks


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Correction all the close alternatives have 16 teeth not 12.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

I meant to say that others have 16 teeth which differs from 12 teeth, making a higher gear ratio causing the ring gear to turn faster and probably putting more load on the motor.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Just have to go old-school, I guess... 








Toro 16" CCR Powerlite Snow Thrower-38182 OEM USED RECOIL STARTER/ LOT WORKS | eBay


GOOD USED OEM PART LOT RECOIL HOUSING AND SUPPORT. RECOIL P/N 590743 (old # 590784). THIS WHOLE MACHINE WILL BE LISTED IF YOU NEED OTHER PARTS. BLOWER HOUSING P/N 350437 NO LONGER AVAILABLE.



www.ebay.com


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

I'm genuinely surprised that something that tiny had electric start in the first place . . .


----------



## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

Anything is serviceable, they put it together somehow, it will come apart the same way - drill spot welds, uncrimp flanges with linesman pliers, etc. Photos might help someone give you guidance on how to get it apart


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Thank you! Here is someone who thinks the same way I do. I didn't over use the starter as the instructions warned. As you can see, the pinion is not really worn. I was able to get the end off, but only just the mounting housing. I'll take some more time and will share other images. You can see though that the other end is not accessible without extracting everything.
Since there are no replacements, I'll try to get it apart and check back. Thanks.


----------



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

That starter looks like it will come apart if you undo the two through bolts. I'm guessing the bendix drive is pressed onto the rotor shaft but you can just leave it in place. Scribe the two end bells so you can reassemble the unit after repair in the correct orientation. Its quite possible that what you have are a set of worn out or sticky start up contacts. Free up the contacts if that's your problem and reassemble for no cost. If you want to spend the money they can rewind it if necessary as well. Was there an external starting capacitor?
Using the manual recoil would be cheaper.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

So the issue is finding how to free the rest of the assembly to pull out as there is only one end that comes apart. Unlike other starters, this one does not have ready access to the commutator and brushes for cleaning/replacement; the whole assembly has to be somehow released and pulled out. It is a plastic can and not a two-ended cylinder. The only part I have found as an FRU for this is the end housing on the Bendix end. That much I confirmed when I did remove the long screw and lock nuts to get that end off.

Thanks for your comments. I'm looking forward to solving the problem and learning. After all, that's why we are diy-ers in the first place, and why your comments on this site are valued.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Toon said:


> That starter looks like it will come apart if you undo the two through bolts.





Fiddler said:


> So the issue is finding how to free the rest of the assembly to pull out as there is only one end that comes apart.


As @Toon said, that should come apart pretty easily... It looks like both end caps will pry off, as well as the cord spacer.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

No there is only one end. This is a plastic can, not a two-ended cylinder. When I removed the Bendix end everything else was left in the can. Only the mounting bracket end comes off. The problem is getting the remaining contents out of the can without hopefully not compromising the plastic canister in order to examine the electrical components inside. This is why the unit is listed as non-serviceable. See below.


----------



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

If you do search for 105-2953 on the web there are a couple available on E-Bay for $50 an $69.00. I don't think you can fix it cheaper unless the brushes are stuck.









It is difficult to troubleshoot it from afar but if the inside looks like this picture you may be able to pull the assembly out of the housing or drill a small hole in the back end cap and drive it out. You can then free up or service the brushes. If the motor assembly is potted into the can you are out of luck. You have nothing to lose by trying this as the starter is broken already and its hard to damage a wreck.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

Thank you for your research, that is going the extra mile! I'll follow up with what I encounter. Perhaps someone else cc an benefit from this discussion and your effort.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

tabora said:


> It looks like both end caps will pry off, as well as the cord spacer.





Fiddler said:


> No there is only one end. This is a plastic can, not a two-ended cylinder.


Your pictures in post #7 appear to show endcaps on both ends and a spacer for the cord entry. Your posts all seem to show different starters?


----------



## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

tabora said:


> Your pictures in post #7 appear to show endcaps on both ends and a spacer for the cord entry. Your posts all seem to show different starters?


The line on the nut side may just be a casting mark. 

No epoxy I've found bonded well to plastic so chances are it's just pressure fit. You can try freezing it and seeing if that helps loosen things, and/or leaving a hair dryer in front of it with the can open. I only use recoil start so haven't ever looked at one of these but have never seen a 12v automotive starter that couldn't be fixed for a few dollars in copper contacts. Generally speaking it's pretty rare for windings to short or open compared to every other thing that can go wrong in a motor. Should be an easy fix once you get it out


----------



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I agree with Tabora. The pictures in post #7 show a motor that looks like both end caps come off. I have worked on a lot of electric motors and have yet to see a one capped motor. Not saying this one has two caps but it sure does look like both ends come off.
jbtvt this I believe is a 120Vac starter not a 12Vdc starter so the windings will be a lot finer wire and failure of the winding insulation is possible.


----------



## Fiddler (7 mo ago)

I wiggled the end and if there is a seam there, it is not showing itself. I also whacked the screw flanges with a rubber mallet. If there is a real seam there it may be glued. Guess it's time for a wood chisel. And yes it is a 120VAC motor.


----------



## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

If the wire gauge is larger that means that it's carrying lower current, due to higher voltage. The safety factor would still be roughly the same. Anything is possible which is why I said generally speaking, but even with 120v I've seen many times more motor issues causes by centrifugal switches, start capacitors, choke coils, etc than actual windings shorting or opening. It does happen and being plastic this is obviously a cheap component, so no way of knowing without a continuity test, or opening it up.


----------



## jbtvt (Dec 29, 2016)

Fiddler said:


> I wiggled the end and if there is a seam there, it is not showing itself.


Are those holes in the frame threaded? Can you pull it out using them? Here is a method I've used to pull fan stators, you may be able to do something similar Antique Fan Collectors Association


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Run two screws into the holes in the body of the motor to get a grip on it, and see if it will pull out. Based on the lip around the gears on the front (and corresponding shape on the motor), it looks like that aligns it and prevents rotation and not the case, so it may simply be another boss sitting in the cup at the closed end of the motor . . .


----------

