# First post... what do I have here?



## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Hey there, posting from the interior of BC, Canada. Don't get a ton of snow here but when we do, it gets pretty heavy and my driveway is fairly wide at the road. After last winter, swore I'd try to find a snowblower or tractor to help me out this year.

Found this old beast on a local classifieds site, guy said it seemed like the carb was fouled since he didn't empty it out the last time he put it away for the summer. Was initially asking 150, got it for 60. Looks like it's a Noma Gran Prix, 5HP Tecumseh engine and 21" inlet. I'm hoping it won't take too much work and I'll have a runner for this winter!










So here's what I'm wondering...

1) Roughly how old is this thing?
2) Where can I find the model # of the engine?
3) Any good links for engine parts (ie. carb kits?)

Thanks!


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

1) Maybe 80s? Just a guess.

2) Looks like a Tecumseh engine, check the top of the engine on the recoil cover under the spark plug. Stare straight down at the spark plug and look for H50 stamped into the metal cover that the pull cord is attached to.

3) Not familiar with Canada sites. Try amazon or ebay.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Welcome. Hope you find the help you need here.
For a moment I thought I was getting a look at a Kawasaki. I mean Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki all make snow blowers?
Noma got bought up by Murray. If not exact I am sure there are some that are similar.

See if this manual will help you.
Tecumseh.pdf


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Thanks guys! Found the stamp on the cover, says "HS50-67199D SER0233B"

As for parts, I can usually get parts from the states without too much trouble, so if you know of any good suppliers, post em up!

Thanks for the Tecumseh link


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## SlowRider22 (Oct 17, 2013)

If you or someone you know has an ebay account, you might as well just buy a new carburetor for that engine instead of messing around with a rebuild kit. I just looked and the cheapest carb was going for $23, not sure what that is in Canadian currency.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

burnt03 said:


> thanks guys! Found the stamp on the cover, says "hs50-67199d ser0233b"


ser*0*233b
The zero indicates the year but not the decade so 198*0* 199*0*


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

dbert said:


> ser*0*233b
> The zero indicates the year but not the decade so 198*0* 199*0*


 
From the Blower body styling and the plastic chute I would say 1990. Is it powered by a 2 drive shaft Tecumseh? I used to have a 5hp Tecumseh but it was difficult to start and once it was running it was underpowered and would tend to bog when I hit the deep snow at the end of the driveway. 
I now have an OHV 212cc Predator on it and it tosses snow 40 feet. You should put in an impeller kit. Rubber extensions on the blades of your impeller to tighten up the tolerances. It will improve your machines wet snow tossing ability greatly.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

hello burnt03, welcome to SBF! my toro 521 has the same motor and i had a carb problem when i first got it. i found a non adjustable carb on ebay for $22 and now it runs fine. i still have the original carb and can rebuild it anytime


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## craigger668 (Nov 18, 2013)

*I just had an orange Gran Prix in the shop*

I just had an orange Gran Prix in the shop with a Tecumseh HM80 not a bad little machine. the one I fixed needed the exhaust valve ground down and a carb cleaning. I Take it by the paint jobs they put on these blowers that they were worried people may lose them in the snow.


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> From the Blower body styling and the plastic chute I would say 1990. Is it powered by a 2 drive shaft Tecumseh? I used to have a 5hp Tecumseh but it was difficult to start and once it was running it was underpowered and would tend to bog when I hit the deep snow at the end of the driveway.
> I now have an OHV 212cc Predator on it and it tosses snow 40 feet. You should put in an impeller kit. Rubber extensions on the blades of your impeller to tighten up the tolerances. It will improve your machines wet snow tossing ability greatly.


Hopefully it'll work OK, have to see once I get it apart. Where would I get an impeller kit from?



detdrbuzzard said:


> hello burnt03, welcome to SBF! my toro 521 has the same motor and i had a carb problem when i first got it. i found a non adjustable carb on ebay for $22 and now it runs fine. i still have the original carb and can rebuild it anytime


Good tip, the Tecumseh manual that dbert linked earlier showed where the model number of the carb is so should be able to find something from that.



craigger668 said:


> I just had an orange Gran Prix in the shop with a Tecumseh HM80 not a bad little machine. the one I fixed needed the exhaust valve ground down and a carb cleaning. I Take it by the paint jobs they put on these blowers that they were worried people may lose them in the snow.


lol, you don't have green snow in Winnipeg?


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I'd like to see more pictures. What the heck is that chrome serving tray looking piece extending from the side of the auger housing?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

dbert said:


> I'd like to see more pictures. What the heck is that chrome serving tray looking piece extending from the side of the auger housing?


Looks like someone's attempt to prevent snow from spilling out over the side. Either that or they angled it in an attempt to make it wider.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

*Where to get an impeller kit*



burnt03 said:


> Hopefully it'll work OK, have to see once I get it apart. Where would I get an impeller kit from?
> 
> I made my own kit from baler belting and fender washers and stainless steel bolts and lock nuts. Cost about $8.50. Not too hard to do simply cut the baler belt to size and place on the flat portion of the impeller. I held it with a clamp and drilled the holes for the bolts and fender washers. Here is a link on what I did.
> Or some people will order the Clarence kit from the internet for $30.00 plus $8.00 shipping
> ...


 Not to hard to do and it really improves snow tossing ability especially the wet slushy stuff


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Gustoguy, that's an awesome idea. Don't have any farming in our area, I'll have to see what I can find for rubber matting. What sort of width is the baling stuff, 1/2" or so?

I'll get some more pics later after work. I was sort of wondering about those plates too, seemed to me that they were factory additions but maybe not.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

burnt03 said:


> Gustoguy, that's an awesome idea. Don't have any farming in our area, I'll have to see what I can find for rubber matting. What sort of width is the baling stuff, 1/2" or so?
> 
> I'll get some more pics later after work. I was sort of wondering about those plates too, seemed to me that they were factory additions but maybe not.


The rubber baler belt is about 1/4th an inch thick and each piece is about 1 &1/2 inches wide and 2 & 3/4 long. I think a rubber floor mat of a simular thickness would work ok too. I like the Baler belting because it is stiff and chorded like a tire. I looked at the extensions I put on my MTD and despite a lot of use last year they still look great and have no noticible wear on them.


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Would the plates be some sort of drift cutter?

Found some rubber matting at work, think it's off an old conveyor belt or something, it's corded too. Only thing is, it's a little thicker than 3/8", so hopefully it won't slow the auger down too much?


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

The plates look like home-made "scoops" to gather snow, so that un-thrown snow doesnt escape off the sides..Only need something like that if you are trying to go faster than the snowblower can handle..I would just remove them and throw them away..

or you could try out the machine with them in place! might not hurt to have them there..but im pretty sure they are a home-made addition.

Scot


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

Here's a thread that shows how to make an impeller kit out of aluminum. 
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/new-member-introductions/1666-howdy-wisconsin-dells-wi-2.html
Might be worth a try, it looks pretty good to me.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm going to try making some out of HDPE, but my impeller housing is still waiting for paint.


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

The scoops swivel up and against the side of the snowblower, so I guess I can try it both ways if I can get it running.

As for the impeller extensions, it looks like the easiest way to get at the fins to drill them is to remove the chute and drill through the top?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Yep, that is how it is done. Remove the chute and drill through the top hole.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

dbert said:


> I'm going to try making some out of HDPE, but my impeller housing is still waiting for paint.


You could use a really thin piece of the HDPE like 3/8th of an inch and if it happened to make contact with the drum it would be less likely to cause drag on the engine than the rubber baler belt would.
I could see it working pretty well and the snow and ice would be unlikely to stick to it too.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> You could use a really thin piece of the HDPE like 3/8th of an inch and if it happened to make contact with the drum it would be less likely to cause drag on the engine than the rubber baler belt would.
> I could see it working pretty well and the snow and ice would be unlikely to stick to it too.


That is what I was thinking. I'm going with thinner material. Ordered a sheet a few days ago and should be here soon. I don't want to hijack burnts thread. I'll keep everyone in the loop in another thread when it gets here.


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Don't worry about hijacking this thread, how'd it work out for you?

Took the carb off last night and cleaned it up a bit. Gas had some sediment in it but the carb seemed pretty good for the most part. Only thing is, this one adjustment screw looks like the tip was screwed in too tightly... can anyone confirm? What's this screw for?









Screw in question is the one right above my thumb











Closer shot of end of adjustment screw.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Adjustable carbs have 3 screws. The one above your thumb there on the outside of the carb about center high is the low speed jet. It is used when you don't have a load on the engine and/or you have the throttle turned down. The one on the bottom is the high speed jet. It is used when there is a load on the engine. The top screw by the throttle butterfly is the screw that controls how far the throttle will close when you turn it all the way down.

Yes, your screw looks smashed there.

The general rule is lightly tighten the mixture screws and out 1.5 turns for the high speed on the bottom of the bowl and out 1 turn for the low speed on the side of the carb. The idle stop screw is suppose to be set around 1200 rpm I believe and the fast idle screw at around 3600 rpm.


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Shryp said:


> Yes, your screw looks smashed there.


What should it look like? Like the high speed needle valve with a sharp(er) point?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I believe both points should look about the same.

Here are some pictures.
Tecumseh Carburetor Overhaul Kits & Parts | Small Engine Parts | MFG Supply


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Shryp said:


> I believe both points should look about the same.
> 
> Here are some pictures.
> Tecumseh Carburetor Overhaul Kits & Parts | Small Engine Parts | MFG Supply


Thanks Shryp. I'll try filing it to a cleaner point and if that doesn't work, try the rebuild kit.

What's the result if the low speed jet is wrecked... won't idle/stay running?


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

burnt03 said:


> Thanks Shryp. I'll try filing it to a cleaner point and if that doesn't work, try the rebuild kit.
> 
> What's the result if the low speed jet is wrecked... won't idle/stay running?


I think that with only one to one-half turns on that, that there is enough meat left on the bones. I might also be suspicious of the other end. It's only aluminum, and I think that the needle was probably made of something harder.... food for thought.


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

db9938 said:


> It's only aluminum, and I think that the needle was probably made of something harder.... food for thought.


Ugh. Just went into the garage to take another look, can't really get into the part where that needle bottoms out though. Guess I'll try it and if it doesn't work, will have to start looking for a new carb.

So if it's not sealing/installed right, what happens? Just won't run?


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Well, the low idle might run rich(foul the plug.) But how often are you going to idle this?

You might be ok, so long as the rest of it checks out. Of course a rebuild kit may include this, and you are ok if the body of the carb is not damaged.


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Put it all back together and not getting any gas onto the plug. Good strong spark though. Compression around 110psi.

Any site suggestions for used parts?


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Sounds like main jet is either clogged, or screwed in all the way. Unscrew the bottom adjustment screw 1/2 turn and go from there.


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

Well, got it to fire and run for a bit but it won't stay running.

Looks as if the float was stuck, got it unstuck and a bunch of gas running down my arm for my trouble. 

If I prime it, will run on first pull but will only run as long as the fuel was in the carb unless I leave it semi choked (second click over from full choke), then it seemed to run OK (would run the impeller and drive with no problem). As soon as I clicked it over to the next position, it died. 

Tried playing with the adjustment screws but no luck (was running at 1 and 1.5 as mentioned earlier).

Any ideas?


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

It sounds as though the jets may be still fouled. 

Shy of taking it back off and using brake cleaner, you may try compressed air. It won't dissolve the varnish, but it may knock it loose.


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## fishrman (Oct 19, 2013)

Looks almost exactly like my 1980 Toro 421. Here is a pic of one:


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## burnt03 (Nov 19, 2013)

I soaked it in carb cleaner when I had it off before but I guess there might still be junk in there.... boo


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

FWIW, my experience with carb cleaner, it only works on the light stuff. If it is really gummed up, then I resort to the brake cleaner and small brass brush. Brake cleaner, is a little, ok a lot more potent. So make sure you use it in a well ventilated area, away from any painted surface that you want protected. It will strip paint. 

And wear a face shield or at least a pair of safety glasses.


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