# Is Honda hydrostatic transmission auto turn?



## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

Are all Honda snowblowers that have hydrostatic drive turn easy? You know, like the the auto-turn feature that is on newer snowblowers.
I'm looking at a Honda 724, year 2009 right now. It has hydrostatic drive of course.

I never looked into Honda snowblowers, so I'm just wondering.

Thanks


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

dman2 said:


> Are all Honda snowblowers that have hydrostatic drive turn easy? You know, like the the auto-turn feature that is on newer snowblowers.
> I'm looking at a Honda 724, year 2009 right now. It has hydrostatic drive of course.
> 
> I never looked into Honda snowblowers, so I'm just wondering.
> ...


Short answer - no, it will have a solid axle. Newer HSS models have trigger steering, but that is also not the same as auto turn.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

All Honda HS models use the solid "Live" axle that is a Honda built transmission, a FAR BETTER transmission than the steerable HSS models that use the Hydro-Gear transmission.
The HSS models are the "Steerable" with the trigger that unlocks an axle. Extra parts that break on a light duty transmission that is nowhere near as reliable as the old HS model Honda built transmissions.
HS - Honda Snowblower
HSS - Honda Steerable Snowblower
Your older Honda HS models were built a lot better, especially the 624 and 828 models with nowhere near the problems the new HSS models kept having.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

That’s not entirely accurate.

The HS hydro is stout but has right side transmission( gear reduction box) issues over time that may require a tear down and repair over time. Installing a grease fitting and pumping some low viscosity grease pretty much resolves that if you catch it early enough. This machine is much much more difficult to maneuver. Simple good technique and accurate expectations are important. 

The HSS hydrogear trans is extremely stout. No gear reduction box necessary but did have an early production issue with fluid aeration which has been resolved. An external reservoir fixed the early afflicted models. I own one of these models and it has been flawless since. This thing is very very easy to maneuver, I have used An autoturn track machine and it does not compare.

The trigger steering is an internal disconnect integral to the transmission. The trans has only been used for 4-5 years but I haven’t heard of a problem with this system yet, and I wouldn’t assume future issues. Externally mounted disconnects used on friction drive transmissions have a greater risk of issues due to lack of lubrication and corrosion. *knock on wood*.

It’s important to keep the trigger in a fully locked or disconnected position, half engagement could cause wearing of the meshing gears.


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

Thanks for the information folks.

There is a Honda HS724 in my area that looks to be in a very good condition. Granpa owned. Not a single rust spot. Only $400. People don't seem to be interested, because you know this winter sucks.

Too bad, I already have snowblowers.

I learned a little bit more about Honda snowblowers today.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

dman2 said:


> There is a Honda HS724 in my area that looks to be in a very good condition. Granpa owned. Not a single rust spot. Only $400. People don't seem to be interested, because you know this winter sucks.


That sounds like a steal... If you're not buying it, let us know where it is.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

dman2 said:


> Are all Honda snowblowers that have hydrostatic drive turn easy? You know, like the the auto-turn feature that is on newer snowblowers.
> I'm looking at a Honda 724, year 2009 right now. It has hydrostatic drive of course.
> 
> I never looked into Honda snowblowers, so I'm just wondering.
> ...


No, they don't turn as easily as the new HSS models with the steering assist.

However , the 724 is fairly light ( about 70-90 pounds lighter ) compared to the bigger 928's and 1332 and are easy to turn for me. It depends how you operate the machine . If you let the machine do the work and plan your turns it will be fairly easy to turn. I use wide ovals when doing my drive that includes part of the street.

Also the 724 is an excellent double duty machine.Strong enough to do drive ways and berms but also very good for walkways and decks.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

drmerdp said:


> That’s not entirely accurate.
> 
> The HS hydro is stout but has right side transmission( gear reduction box) issues over time that may require a tear down and repair over time. Installing a grease fitting and pumping some low viscosity grease pretty much resolves that if you catch it early enough. This machine is much much more difficult to maneuver. Simple good technique and accurate expectations are important.
> 
> ...


Some of the problems with the Hydro-Gear transmissions were the hydraulic pistons and the bores that they sat in wear out fast causing a "slow down" or complete drive failure.
One other problem with their design for the steering "Unlocks" is the wear of the "Dove-Tail" on the gears that do the engagement and disengagement.
What happens is the "Dove-Tail wears off the gear and the slots it engages in wear causing them to "Jump-Out" and disengage when under a load.
It is just like shifting a motorcycle transmission without using/disengaging the clutch and taking the "Load" off of the gear "Dogs". Kind of like "Banging" the transmission in gear without using the clutch with the engine running under power, for an example of the engage, disengage of the steering clutch.
Then the problem is the labor involved with replacing the transmission assembly.
You are very correct about stating to fully either "Engage" or "Disengage" the steering triggers, because if you do not, you will wear the gear dogs off in a big hurry, and that is an expensive repair bill.
On other manufacturer models with the "External Steering Clutches", there is much less labor involved with a repair on them, and as you stated, the Honda's design is better being the gears are internal and bathed in oil, but that design does have drawbacks with the shift dogs wearing the dovetail teeth down to a rounded edge. Once that happens, they will "Jump out" of gear engagement under a load.
They are still pretty new yet to really hear about the failures on them but give it some time and you will hear a lot more about them in the future.
A problem with Hydro-Gear is the material used in manufacturing is not of the highest quality to keep costs down, which leads to early failures in the field of operation.
Years ago when Honda manufactured their own parts, they used much higher quality materials in manufacture, but unfortunately those days are gone now that Mr Soichiro Honda is no longer around.
Now the newer hydro transmission, and especially the older Honda built ones are all far better than a disc drive unit for traction and will normally outlast a friction disc drive before service is required a lot longer period of time, so they do have their advantages and worthiness for the increased price of the Hydro drive machines.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

@ST1100A, I'm guessing that the issues you refer to with Hydro-Gear transmissions were from commercial mower usage where they were run many 100s to 1000s of hours per year in hot weather, vs the HSS snowblowers that are run 10s to maybe 200 hours a year in cold weather. It's interesting to note that after 5 years in service that there are no HSS Hydro-Gear transmission issues noted on the forum other than the original oil aeration problem that has been well addressed.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

tabora said:


> @ST1100A, I'm guessing that the issues you refer to with Hydro-Gear transmissions were from commercial mower usage where they were run many 100s to 1000s of hours per year in hot weather, vs the HSS snowblowers that are run 10s to maybe 200 hours a year in cold weather. It's interesting to note that after 5 years in service that there are no HSS Hydro-Gear transmission issues noted on the forum other than the original oil aeration problem that has been well addressed.


Yes within a hundred hours or so. That's one of the things that worry me. We even see it on many homeowner models that don't get the severe usage.
Granted snowblowers normally do not see that many hours, so I am hoping they are going to hold up for at least 30 years without any problems there.
The other thing that worry's me is the steering clutch design. I see too many transmission gears with damaged dogs on motorcycles, repaired many at a cost and they are built with much stronger metals than the Hydro-Gear transmissions, and the steering clutches work on the same principle as the bike transmissions with the shift dogs. I repaired many older Honda lawnmower transmissions that used the same drive clutch set-up. That was back in the day when you could repair them and get replacement parts for them.
It was a simple design set-up, but in time they wore out and would jump out of drive all the time. It was a common repair for them. We had many that we rebuilt, and they were a robust transmission.
I had one of those Hydro-Gear transmissions apart and saw a lot of things that are going to give a problem with them in the future.
I am still from the "Old School Honda" where they were designed to last for 10-20 thousand hours or more, and that is how my customer base is, they spend the money, they want things to last for eternity, like the rest of us.
I think "Ahead" and can see problems with them. We are not seeing or hearing of too many of them yet, but there have been a few, that's why I say to give them time, and do not be surprised when you start hearing of problems with them in the near future.
My Honda's are 27 years old without any problems yet, and they are used commercially, so my customers and I want to see the new models last at least that long for the price of the machine.
We would like to see Honda guarantee the transmission for a minimum of 10 years at the very least, more like 20 years for a snowblower that does not see the kind of hours that lawn equipment gets.
We have seen the aeration problems on many Hydro-gear transmissions used on lawn equipment, and usually as soon as that happens, the trans is in for an overhaul because of the damage to the pistons and cylinder blocks. You can't run a hydro unit low in oil or you will have immediate damage.
We constantly are repairing or replacing Hydro-Gear products used for power transmission, way more than any other manufacturer's units, and that's what scares us with Honda using them.
We would have thought with Honda's engineering from years ago, that problem with the aeration and not having a fluid resivour would have never happened, they would have known better enough to have one installed from the start.


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## stepher79 (Feb 14, 2020)

Sorry for the thread hijack, would you know if the steering mechanism on the Yamaha YT1332 would have the same durability concerns?


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## SkunkyLawnmowers (Oct 18, 2018)

stepher79 said:


> Sorry for the thread hijack, would you know if the steering mechanism on the Yamaha YT1332 would have the same durability concerns?


There aren't any durability concerns that I'm aware of. A lot of what's been written is 'what ifs' and a bit of scaremongering thrown in for good measure.

Why not start your own thread in the Yamaha forum?


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## stepher79 (Feb 14, 2020)

I've been asking questions there too, not a lot of info to be found. It's at a size and price point that I think people likely just move to ATVs or tractors (what the dealer suggested).


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Back in the day Yamaha and Honda were pretty much equal in quality and design. They were both built very rugged and long lasting.
Yamaha never really advertised and marketed their outdoor power equipment as much as Honda did. Yamaha was happy with what they had, and so were their customers, besides, all the other products Yamaha made, they didn't have to worry financially.
Then in more modern times, Honda went overboard with marketing and trying to gain sales and decided to go the Big Box Store route, and that meant they had to cut costs big time and cheapen everything up to appeal to the Big Box Store buyers for their sales and that began to hurt their reputation for quality products they used to produce in the past.
Yamaha was smart and never took the Big Box Store route and their quality remained. you do not see as many Yamaha products around like you do with Honda, but Yamaha still kept their quality with their products.
That is why you don't see many Yamaha products in the USA anymore like you did in the past, they weren't trying to "Out-Sell" everyone by going to the Big Box Stores, so they didn't have to cut costs and quality on their products.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

tabora said:


> That sounds like a steal... If you're not buying it, let us know where it is.


I think hes in the Omaha area, so it might be around a 23.5 hour drive for you. Lucky for me its only about 22.5!

This should be it for anyone closer (or willing to travel):

https://omaha.craigslist.org/grd/d/omaha-honda-hs-stage-snowblower/7066234126.html


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

2muchsnow said:


> I think hes in the Omaha area, so it might be around a 23.5 hour drive for you. Lucky for me its only about 22.5!
> This should be it for anyone closer (or willing to travel):
> https://omaha.craigslist.org/grd/d/omaha-honda-hs-stage-snowblower/7066234126.html


That looks pretty nice! If only it were on tracks...


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

2muchsnow said:


> I think hes in the Omaha area, so it might be around a 23.5 hour drive for you. Lucky for me its only about 22.5!
> 
> This should be it for anyone closer (or willing to travel):
> 
> https://omaha.craigslist.org/grd/d/omaha-honda-hs-stage-snowblower/7066234126.html


I knew someone would go through my posts to find where I'm at. You are that weird person. 
I don't want to affect the person selling that snowblower (good, or bad affect. You never know. You are inviting all people to his area).

I was somewhat interested, but then I realized that I don't need it. For the purpose of removing snow, any snowblower will does the job (there are many good snowblowers out there at lower prices). Honda snowblowers are nice, but they are overpriced. The metal sheet is thin and the engine is on the small side (will need re-jet, or something). They seem to struggle more under heavy snows. Parts are also expensive. Hydrostatic drive is kinda unnecessary. For $2500, is this worth every penny? Not if you have a two cars driveway. You buy it new, in 10 years, you ended up like this person selling his snowblower.

For $400, yes, it it well worth it. It is below average listing price. Some people might want to resell it. I just don't think anyone would buy it this season. It has been listed for 28 days. It might has been sold already. I don't know.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

9/10 people who have never owned a Honda have the same testament as you do, in fact 99/100 may have the same feelings; own one and you'd understand. I'd buy a honda just for the HST alone, once you use an HST equipped snowblower everything else feels primitive. At $400 thats a very good buy and a very solid machine to get in on the Honda experience; dont knock it till you try it.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

dman2 said:


> I knew someone would go through my posts to find where I'm at. You are that weird person.
> I don't want to affect the person selling that snowblower (good, or bad affect. You never know. You are inviting all people to his area).
> 
> I was somewhat interested, but then I realized that I don't need it. For the purpose of removing snow, any snowblower will does the job (there are many good snowblowers out there at lower prices). Honda snowblowers are nice, but they are overpriced. The metal sheet is thin and the engine is on the small side (will need re-jet, or something). They seem to struggle more under heavy snows. Parts are also expensive. Hydrostatic drive is kinda unnecessary. For $2500, is this worth every penny? Not if you have a two cars driveway. You buy it new, in 10 years, you ended up like this person selling his snowblower.
> ...


I guess I'm the weird person that would be interested in buying an awesome snowblower at a fantastic price? I'd be very interested if it were closer to me. I'm sorry if I offended you by sharing it with a snowblower forum full of snowblower enthusiasts.

I'm not going to argue with you about the rest of your opinions on Honda snowblowers. 

Back on topic - the HS model, that you are not interested in, has a solid axel. 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## stepher79 (Feb 14, 2020)

ST1100A said:


> Back in the day Yamaha and Honda were pretty much equal in quality and design. They were both built very rugged and long lasting.
> Yamaha never really advertised and marketed their outdoor power equipment as much as Honda did. Yamaha was happy with what they had, and so were their customers, besides, all the other products Yamaha made, they didn't have to worry financially.
> Then in more modern times, Honda went overboard with marketing and trying to gain sales and decided to go the Big Box Store route, and that meant they had to cut costs big time and cheapen everything up to appeal to the Big Box Store buyers for their sales and that began to hurt their reputation for quality products they used to produce in the past.
> Yamaha was smart and never took the Big Box Store route and their quality remained. you do not see as many Yamaha products around like you do with Honda, but Yamaha still kept their quality with their products.
> That is why you don't see many Yamaha products in the USA anymore like you did in the past, they weren't trying to "Out-Sell" everyone by going to the Big Box Stores, so they didn't have to cut costs and quality on their products.


Always interesting to hear from people who work on the equipment, pretty sure I know while I'll be getting next fall. At the price point some of these machines are at I just want to make sure that they have a good chance to last a long time. Realistically I could get by with a lot less but I'm at the age where a snow blower is both a tool and a toy I guess - it's nice when things work well and last so I'm hoping for that. Plus, if I spend that kind of money and it does a poor job or breaks down constantly I will not hear the end of it.


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

stepher79 said:


> Always interesting to hear from people who work on the equipment, pretty sure I know while I'll be getting next fall. At the price point some of these machines are at I just want to make sure that they have a good chance to last a long time. Realistically I could get by with a lot less but I'm at the age where a snow blower is both a tool and a toy I guess - it's nice when things work well and last so I'm hoping for that. Plus, if I spend that kind of money and it does a poor job or breaks down constantly I will not hear the end of it.


I try not to make snowplowing my hobby. It can be expensive and time consuming. It only snow enough a few times each year over here. Honda snowblowers are nice, but they just don't do it for me. 9/10 people would think it like me. You spend that kind of money, you expect them to last a life time and perform well. You only use them a few times each year and they become outdated. It is best to treat them as tools.

For your age, I can see it as a hobby. I'm young, I rather spend my money somewhere else.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

dman2 - without knowing how much snow you get, nor your age, my guess is that if you bought a Honda snowblower, even used, it would probably last you most of the rest of your life. Sure, it will be outdated at some point, but snow is snow, and the snow that you will be snow blowing in 25 years will look alot like what you will be snow blowing today. 



But, as you say, other toys may be more important to you at this point in your life.


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## stepher79 (Feb 14, 2020)

Wouldn't call it a hobby per se, I do enjoy the yardwork though and nice tools make it a little more fun. 

Hobbies do include; really bad beer league hockey and lately reading alot of posts in these forums.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Honda snowblowers do not become outdated. The older ones are better than most new brands . I've sold old Honda's that are 25-35 years old for more than they were new to people who understand their value.


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 7, 2016)

dman2 said:


> For your age, I can see it as a hobby. I'm young, I rather spend my money somewhere else.


Hobbies are a contradiction; they take work and turn it into leisure, and take leisure and turn it into work.

(STEVEN M. GELBER)

P.S. For those of us in the "your age" category...no offence taken. :grin:


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

So on the hydro gear tranny the lock also locks up that side of tranny drive shaft when it stops the track?
Is it possible that this lock gets stuck when you release the handle so the track will not move?

I have very little experience with HSS models.

@ST1100A ?


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> So on the hydro gear tranny the lock also locks up that side of tranny drive shaft when it stops the track?


When you squeeze one of the steering triggers, that side's track drive is just disengaged so that it freewheels:


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

tabora said:


> When you squeeze one of the steering triggers, that side's track drive is just disengaged so that it freewheels:


yes. I was wondering if the hydro gear shaft also stops on that side? I have a guy where that side is not turning ( left side of that gear shaft ) and the other side/track does. He says the steering handle is disengaged. I asked him to check cable or for some reason the lock is stuck. I am unfamiliar with this problem.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> yes. I was wondering if the hydro gear shaft also stops on that side? I have a guy where that side is not turning ( left side of that gear shaft ) and the other side/track does. He says the steering handle is disengaged. I asked him to check cable or for some reason the lock is stuck. I am unfamiliar with this problem.


The trigger pulls the shift arm #47 on the HydroGear transaxle and completely freewheels that side's output shaft. The arm should be 90 degrees to the front-rear plane of the machine when released... 

























Is his drive pin #16 in the drive sprocket/output shaft intact?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

tabora said:


> The trigger pulls the shift arm #47 on the HydroGear transaxle and completely freewheels that side's output shaft. The arm should be 90 degrees to the front-rear plane of the machine when released... Thanks
> View attachment 206812
> 
> View attachment 206813
> ...


thanks


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

_Honda snowblowers are nice, but they are overpriced. The metal sheet is thin and the engine is on the small side _

No question you are entitled to your opinion. Having run at least 6 different brands in 40+ years, I disagree.

When I decided to replace the Yamaha, Honda in the 24 inch size had gained a couple of HP and has a good chute width to hp ratio. Its 20-30% better than the Yamaha overall. I love the 12 volt battery start and the trigger steering. The rest is solid Honda (it matches the Yamaha poundage wise by the way though of course that is the hidden lead weights they put in to fool people)

Strolling down memory lane, between the Yamaha and the Honda there is 6 cc difference, of course Honda has learned nothing about power per CC since Yamaha put the engines into their machines back in the day compared to Honda 24/28 inch machines as time has gone by. All that Honda racing experience wasted, sigh.

Funny though Honda moves 42 tons an hour and the Yamaha moves 35 tons an hour. 
I am sure Honda uses Dry Tons of snow though. 

I assume Honda lies about the weight of the machine as well (heavier than the same size Yamaha). Maybe its Mars weight vs Earth weight?

Keeping in mind there is a difference between an opinion and an agenda.


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