# Toro 826 38150 Dying - Missing Interlock or Carb??



## Kevinrco

Toro 826 - 38150 - SN 4002088
Hey there everyone. This is my first snowblower. A friend got it at a farm auction and I got it in trade. At first it would not start and I eventually got it going by fixing a break in one of the wires. It starts and Idles. In general it sounds good. The wheels both engage and the auger engages as well.

The P.O did some rewiring and "modding" to this thing as far as I can see. No key is required to start and the safety interlock system is removed.
When I push the throttle lever towards High/fast it will die. Could this be due to the interlock system being removed?? The levers are gone and the wiring(or what is left of it is just hanging there. there is a plug on the engine that seems to be what the system connected to. Can it be bypassed?
I'm also thinking it could be the the carb needs rebuilt and cleaned...possibly the gas cap vent is clogged. The two stage manual posted in the sticky has nothing on my model and I searched about the interlock system with no luck.Any help would be much appreciated and apologies if this has been covered before
I'll include some pictures in case that could help anyone.


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## Grunt

:white^_^arial^_^0^_ Kevinrco. Your machine is a 1984 model according to the model and serial number you posted and you can go to 
https://lookup3.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro to see the parts breakdown for your machine.

The engine dieing when the throttle is moved from idle to fast indicates your carb will need to be cleaned and adjusted. This link will give you information to do it.

Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Briggs and Stratton Medium Two-Piece Flo-jet Carburetor


Your safety interlock system has already been by-passed, so care must be taken when operating your machine and the interlock system being disconnected will have no effect on the engine running. Will your engine stop when the throttle is pulled all the way down to the stop\slow position?

Link to some interlock discussions on this forum.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3482034


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## Kevinrco

Hey thanks for the welcome. The machine will(did) idle fine when the throttle is in the slow position.I fiddled with the screws on the carb and couldn't get it started back up. I found a really helpful YouTube video(link below) showing a partial dis-assembly and cleaning of the carb, same motor but a Lawn-boy snowblower. Gonna do it tomorrow first thing. I've found the model on the Toro site but unfortunately they don't provide the user manual online as many before me probably have already figured out.

Weird, I tried searching with the word "interlock" in the Toro forum and got nothing??? Haven't been on any forums in a bit. Thank you for the links, I hope it is not too dangerous to use without the interlock....

Thank you


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## detdrbuzzard

hello kevin, welcome to *SBF!!* my 826 only has one working safety interlock and I'm glad it does


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## Kiss4aFrog

That chute is something else. Looks like the cream colored deflector is from an old Sears unit and it's sitting on a newer style chute ??

Good idea if you have a chance to hit it with some cleaner and hose it down before removing the carb.

I was going to say check on the price of a new carb but when I looked it up I saw what style it is. Haven't worked on one of those yet ??


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## Grunt

Kevinrco said:


> I hope it is not too dangerous to use without the interlock.


 As long as no children are using it and you make sure "you" put the gear shift in neutral, disengage the auger and turn the engine off before leaving the operator position to unclog snow from the chute or debris in your path, you shouldn't have any problems. They are called safety interlocks for a reason, but the machine will function without them. The machine was designed so that releasing either handle bar lever with the shifter in gear or the auger engaged would kill the engine. I hope this helps to keep you safe.


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## Bob Cat

Donyboy videos are pretty good . It looks like you found the right one for your application.


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## skutflut

Kevinrco said:


> Toro 826 - 38150 - SN 4002088
> 
> The P.O did some rewiring and "modding" to this thing as far as I can see. No key is required to start and the safety interlock system is removed.
> When I push the throttle lever towards High/fast it will die. Could this be due to the interlock system being removed?? The levers are gone and the wiring(or what is left of it is just hanging there. there is a plug on the engine that seems to be what the system connected to. Can it be bypassed?
> I'm also thinking it could be the the carb needs rebuilt and cleaned...possibly the gas cap vent is clogged. The two stage manual posted in the sticky has nothing on my model and I searched about the interlock system with no luck.Any help would be much appreciated and apologies if this has been covered before
> I'll include some pictures in case that could help anyone.


The interlocks basically are a short circuit device that takes the ignition wire to ground and stops the spark. Pushing the key in breaks the ground circuit, and on some models, moving the throttle to the OFF position grounds the ignition and stops the engine. Mine has a key, and an on/off switch, but no interlock to the throttle. Both interlocks work, no reason to defeat them...so far.

Your problem with dying at full throttle sounds carb related. Does it run OK at full speed with the gas cap off? If so, that would point to a blocked vent. Check and see if you find a wire in the throttle mechanism that gets grounded when you move the throttle to full speed, which would indicate somebody put it together backwards. I would also take a look at that splice under the black tape and see whats going on there. Perhaps you have a bad connection under it that breaks contact when the unit vibration increases at higher speeds.


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## Kevinrco

Hey, thanks for all the input. I took off the carb, cleaned, and reassembled. It runs at full throttle now. Its not running good enough though. It will just stop itself. I think i need some new gaskets for it. I'm heading to get a new fuel line and filter for it now to see if it helps. The fuel line looks clear to me and the filter looks ok too but they are old and need replaced anyway. 

Another thing came to my attention. now that it will throttle up the auger wont spin when the lever is fully engaged. When i push the lever about halfway or more up the auger will spin. I'll have to search for how to adjust this.


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## Grunt

You may need new belts if they were never replaced. It is always good to have a spare set anyway, since they have a tendency to break during the worst storm of the century and all the parts stores are closed.
Your parts list shows the drive belt as 17-6540 and is a 1/2"x44" or (4L440) and the auger belt as 26-960 and is a 1/2"x40" or (4L400).


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## classiccat

You're making some progress on that tank of a machine! 

Have you had a chance to check compression?


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## Kevinrco

Cool, I'm gonna get a set. Are these available at a store like Hope Depot? I only have ACE here and they dont carry them. Thanks! I hope after all this learning and repairing to have a solid working machine


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## Kevinrco

Classic CAt - I have not checked compression but it looked to me that some exhaust was escaping from the head. It kinda chirps when starting it now and will only start with the throttle on Fast and no choke.The throttle seems to bounce up and down until it steadys. I did just have it running and "drove it around for a few minutes without it dying.


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## Kiss4aFrog

You can get the belts at a number of places including auto parts stores, big box like HomeDepot, Menards ... . Just make sure you're getting a lawn and garden belt and not an automotive one.

For example: Gates XL 9395 - V-Belt | O'Reilly Auto Parts

On the head gasket. If you pull the head you might want to try and surface it before you replace the gasket. Here is a simple and cheap DIY way of doing it.

http://www.mgonitzke.net/cubcadet/tools/headgasket.pdf


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## Kevinrco

I'm gonna definitely order the belts and pull the head to inspect. If a compression tester is cheap enough I'll buy one. Thanks again everyone! 

I've been on some forums where people are not so nice to novice noobies like myself. It is refreshing to get some good advice without being picked on!


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## skutflut

Kevinrco said:


> Classic CAt - I have not checked compression but it looked to me that some exhaust was escaping from the head. It kinda chirps when starting it now and will only start with the throttle on Fast and no choke.The throttle seems to bounce up and down until it steadys. I did just have it running and "drove it around for a few minutes without it dying.


Sounds like you might still have some carb issues there. Does the carb have adjustment screw(s) for the jets? The bouncing you see is likely the governor trying to maintain an engine speed which will even out as the engine warms up and choke is turned down, then off (under normal conditions.) Not much point if messing around too much with the carb if you have a blown head gasket. Once that is fixed, then take another crack at getting the carb adjusted.


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## Kevinrco

It has one for the jet.I Think it only has one jet. The other one I'm not sure about, Im guessing one is the idle and the other is the "High"? I set them both at 1 1/2 turns from the further most in position and then adjusted the Jet as I saw in the video I posted.


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## Grunt

Kevinrco said:


> I've been on some forums where people are not so nice to novice noobies like myself. It is refreshing to get some good advice without being picked on!


 Everyone starts out as a newbie no matter what you are doing. There are some great knowledgeable people here that are always happy to help fellow snow blower enthusiasts. As Powershift93 says, "your a brother".


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## Kevinrco

Soooo... I got my hands on a new auger belt and it seems to have helped that problem. The store didn't have the drive belt so I'm working on getting a couple of those as well.The machine is dying under load though and I'm suspecting it is the head gasket leak as Classicat suggested. I'm guessing that for a machine this old I will have to order the head gasket online???? In the meantime I can try to resurface the head according to the post by Kissafrog.


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## classiccat

Kevinrco said:


> Soooo... I got my hands on a new auger belt and it seems to have helped that problem. The store didn't have the drive belt so I'm working on getting a couple of those as well.The machine is dying under load though and I'm suspecting it is the head gasket leak as Classicat suggested. I'm guessing that for a machine this old I will have to order the head gasket online???? In the meantime I can try to resurface the head according to the post by Kissafrog.


I was lucky enough to have an OPE shop that was well stocked with gaskets for older equipment.

Check the torque on the head bolts before tearing it down completely. Chance of low hanging fruit there. Definitely try to get a new gasket..and dress the head as kaf suggested. I coat my head gaskets with permatex copper gasket spray. Valves may need to be adjusted (remove stem to gain proper clearance) and reseated (lapping) as well. Quite a few vids on u-tube illustrating the process!


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## Kevinrco

Well, I've been away for work for a week. I did get a head gasket and a lapping set in town. Just took off the head and its looking really nasty. I looked a videos on how to do the re-seating and it looks pretty simple. I just have to figure out how to remove the valves themselves....I'mm off to ACE for sandpaper, sparkplug...


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## Grunt

Looks like the head gasket blew out right by the exhaust valve. You can use a set of needle nose pliers opened just enough to span the valve stem and while holding the valve down, push up on the pliers to release the keeper from the stem. Be aware that the keeper is punched out like a keyhole and rotating it so the small side is facing you will aid removal.

I have reinstalled springs by compressing them in a vise with a small portion exposed above the vise and using 1/8" wide nylon ty-raps to hold the compressed spring, rotate the spring in the vise 180 degrees and add another ty-rap. Install the spring and keeper then cut the ty-raps and remove with pliers.

Your getting sand paper for what purpose? You don't want to use it for cleaning the mating surfaces of the head or block. A razor blade used with care will remove any gasket material.


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## Kevinrco

I got the sandpaper to resurface the head as suggested by Kiss4A Frog. Should I not do that?


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## nwcove

i would suggest resurfacing the head, using the " perfectly flat surface and sheet of sand paper method." you will know after a couple of figure eights if its warped.


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## Kevinrco

Well, I gave up for the night. The intake came out easy, but the exhaust seems to have a different retainer that I cant seem to pop off.I started on cleaning and I have the head inside to resurface it. Any advice on the exhaust valve retainer??


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## Kiss4aFrog

The way the block surface looks I think it would be a very good idea to surface the head.


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## Kevinrco

Cool, Thank you. I am wondering how resurfacing just the head will remedy this problem. Could there also be some unevenness on the block as well? As for the valve retainer, I guess I will just get a spring compressor to make it easy. I'm also going to have to get a torque wrench for re'assembly as well. Any suggestions on a cheapie?? I sure wish I had a garage or workshop to work in. Its windy as **** up here!


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## Kiss4aFrog

Usually it's only the head that warps a bit.

Some of the auto parts stores will loan torque wrenches.

http://www.autozone.com/landing/page.jsp?name=loan-a-tool

Oreilly, ...


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## Kevinrco

So I still have one spring I can't remove. I tried every auto part store and they had nothing for a small engine. Any recommendations for one online? I see there is the c-clamp style and another kind of "tong" style .


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## 43128

i bought one of the hft ones for 10 bucks yesterday to keep at home. for the price its built welt and is on spec with the snap on i got in my porter and chester tool set. i used it earlier today on a tecumseh hm80 flywheel nut

http://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-Drive-Click-Type-Torque-Wrench-61276.html


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## Kevinrco

Thanks! I actually bought that the other day. 

What I am asking about now is a valve spring compressor for the valve spring I cannot remove easily.


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## Grunt

Kevinrco said:


> So I still have one spring I can't remove. I tried every auto part store and they had nothing for a small engine. Any recommendations for one online? I see there is the c-clamp style and another kind of "tong" style .


The c-clamp style is for overhead valve engines .


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## skutflut

Kevinrco said:


> Thanks! I actually bought that the other day.
> 
> What I am asking about now is a valve spring compressor for the valve spring I cannot remove easily.


This is what you need..

http://www.amazon.com/Lang-Tools-379-Engine-compressor/dp/B004ZG5VE0


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## skutflut

Kevinrco said:


> Thanks! I actually bought that the other day.
> 
> What I am asking about now is a valve spring compressor for the valve spring I cannot remove easily.



Remember that the torque setting for the head bolts is MOST LIKELY listed in INCH/POUNDS, probably somewhere from 180 - 220 IN/LBS. (Check specs for your engine)

You are shooting for somewhere around 15-18 FT/LBS if your wrench is calibrated in FT/LBS.


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## Kevinrco

Thank you skutflut, I went ahead and ordered one of those from amazon for 23 bucks! I'll have to look at the HF torque wrench to see how it is calibrated. 
I've gotten quite a bit of snow since starting this project and its mostly packed down from driving on it but if i can get this thing working it will really help with the drift areas!


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## skutflut

Kevinrco said:


> Thank you skutflut, I went ahead and ordered one of those from amazon for 23 bucks! I'll have to look at the HF torque wrench to see how it is calibrated.
> I've gotten quite a bit of snow since starting this project and its mostly packed down from driving on it but if i can get this thing working it will really help with the drift areas!


No need to fear... You will have this machine running like a top by spring, already for NEXT year :huh:


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## Kevinrco

Haha! I would think that could get this thing done by late April. Winter is long in my neck of the woods


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## skutflut

Kevinrco said:


> Haha! I would think that could get this thing done by late April. Winter is long in my neck of the woods



I hope you realize that now that you have all the new tools, and experience, you are going to have to set up shop as a small engine fixit guy. Gotta pay for the investment somehow!


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## Kevinrco

Well. I finally got the valve spring compressor in the mail and got the valve out....Woohoo...But I think I've created a lot more work for myself. When I compressed the valve half of the retainer "keeper" ( sorry I'm not sure of the name) dropped down a small hole into the case. I'm just guessing that I will have to now pull the motor off the snowblower and split it open to get the piece out . 
Is there a reason the spring retainers are different?

Hole peice went into 


Rest of the "stuff"


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## Grunt

Maybe you could try a flexible shaft magnet through the hole it fell in, or, through the oil fill hole. You may (I hope) get lucky and retrieve it. It has been awhile since I opened up a 8 hp, but I don't remember seeing those holes in the breather area.???


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## 9w1911

Why does the throttle look wide open on one of Ops photos? 
Mine is in the same position and I thought it was odd to have the throttle cranked open like that, what am I missing? 
I thought this was one of the reasons mine always seemed to let in too much gas and leak.


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