# Ariens 10m-L60 chute rotates on its own



## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

Hello, 

I am new to the forum here and could use some help. I recently acquired via Craigslist an old Ariens 10M-L60, very similar to this one from page 4 of the very fine and thorough Scott Lawrence Web site. It







http://scotlawrence.smugmug.com/photos/685686787_xwhsi-O.jpgseems to be in great condition and I finally had snow to put it through its paces this week. 

However, one very annoying problem is that the discharge chute likes to vibrate itself all the way to the left or right. Most times this is okay, but sometimes I would really rather discharge the snow mostly straight ahead (let's say at 11 o'clock) . I've looked at the mechanism and there doesn't seem to be a way to tighten it down. 

Could I be missing something? Or perhaps a part is worn or broken? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## SteelyTim (Nov 14, 2014)

I've had chutes that "jitterbugged" to one side or another. I'd remove the chute and put a nice thick layer of grease on the surface between the chute and blower body, then adjust the gear on the end of the chute turn to put a little tension on the chute if possible. That ought to do it 

You can sort of tighten the chute down too. There are curved brackets about 3" long that are held on with 1/4" metal screws, the ones you'd take off to remove the chute. You can tweak the brackets by flattening them a little bit, carefully squeezing them with a pair of pliers while mounted on the chute.


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## iowatodd (Nov 8, 2014)

Hello. You can easily fix that problem by tightening the nut on the eyebolt near the end of the chute control rod. This puts more tension on the rod. The eyebolt is located in the bracket between the chute and the swivel coupling. I hope this helps you.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

+1 on what iowatodd said. That's the proper way to tighten that up...


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

iowatodd said:


> Hello. You can easily fix that problem by tightening the nut on the eyebolt near the end of the chute control rod. This puts more tension on the rod. The eyebolt is located in the bracket between the chute and the swivel coupling. I hope this helps you.


Thanks for the tip. My eye bolt seems to be missing. Should be easy enough to replace, I would think. 

SteelyTim, I will keep your suggestions in mind too if I am not happy with the eyebolt adjustment. 

Any other suggestions for a new owner of an old, but generally sound 10m-l60?


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

I just took a closer look at my machine and the adjustment rod is set up a little differently than the one I posted a picture of. Now that I know how to post pictures, here are a couple of my machine including the chute adjustment rod. Apologies for the poor photography. 
































The way the chute control rod is mounted to the tractor is different on my machine than the other 10ml60 I linked to in my original post. But my machine is undoubted labeled a 10ml60 (see the pictures in this post). And my machine doesn't appear to accept an eye bolt (that's a grease zerk in the bushing surrounding the chute adjustment rod and yes, I filled that up with nice thick grease). Am I missing something? If not, I will give SteelyTim's suggestions a go.


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## SteelyTim (Nov 14, 2014)

Your machine is set up like mine. I think the eye bolt thing they're talking about is on newer machines.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Mine is set up like yours, and I had the same problem. You have to drive the roll pin out of the u-joint on the shaft (you can use a drift or similar sized drill bit, then add a very fine thin washer and put the u-joint back in. You can put the washer on either side, up against the u-joint or slide the shaft out, put it up against the gear and slide it back in then reinstall the u-joint. You can vary the size of the washer to increase tension, just don't go too tight or you will have trouble cranking the chute. Let me know if you need some pics...


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

SteelyTim said:


> Your machine is set up like mine. I think the eye bolt thing they're talking about is on newer machines.





Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Mine is set up like yours, and I had the same problem. You have to drive the roll pin out of the u-joint on the shaft (you can use a drift or similar sized drill bit, then add a very fine thin washer and put the u-joint back in. You can put the washer on either side, up against the u-joint or slide the shaft out, put it up against the gear and slide it back in then reinstall the u-joint. You can vary the size of the washer to increase tension, just don't go too tight or you will have trouble cranking the chute. Let me know if you need some pics...


Thanks, Guys. I combined your recommendations yesterday. I already had a wave washer on there, but it had flattened over time. I used 2 pairs of pliers to add some of the wave back in. I also applied grease between the removable portion of the chute and the main machine carcass. No self-rotations now!

Edit: added pics of my carb

















Now that that issue is resolved, could anyone point me in the direction of a good source for troubleshooting the carb? I inadvertently bent some of the linkage (or maybe stretched a spring) and now it seems to be over revving. I messed with the governor, bent some of the linkage (the part attached to the throttle cable with the "u" in it), but it still revs so fast that the machine is shaking all over the place. I can pull the throttle lever back to slow it down, but it has a tendency to wander up and down rpms when I do that. Any suggestions?


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## Tyster403 (Jan 16, 2015)

See manual. Section on governor. I haven't tried to adjust mine yet.

http://www.barrettsmallengine.com/manual/tecumsehlheadmanual.pdf


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Have you tried turning the main idle screw? (Center of the carb bowl) that would change the rpms. Would play with that before tweaking the governer.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Adjust the link as shown below. This will add more tension to the throttle plate to bring down the rpm.


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Have you tried turning the main idle screw? (Center of the carb bowl) that would change the rpms. Would play with that before tweaking the governer.





WestminsterFJR said:


> Adjust the link as shown below. This will add more tension to the throttle plate to bring down the rpm.


Thanks for your suggestions. I adjusted both the main screw in the bottom of the bowl and with that governor linkage. Both seemed to lead to small improvements, but it's still not working to my satisfaction. However, I now have it adjusted such that it only over revs with no load. When I engage the auger and blow snow, the load seems to pull the rpms down to something reasonable and the power seems to be enough that it won't stall. So my solution is to pull back the throttle when no load is on the machine so the rpms don't get too high. 

From reading some other posts, it seems possible that I have an air leak (possibly at the gasket between the carb and the motor or maybe where the main throttle butterfly shift exits the carb) that is causing my high rpm issue. I'm not too sure as I am out of my area of expertise here. But in mean time, no snow due here this week and most of it melted off this weekend. So I will wait for the next snowfall to thoroughly test the newly adjusted carb and hope for the best! Thanks for your suggestions and I will report back with my results.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

is it over revving even if you have the throttle position set low?


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

WestminsterFJR said:


> is it over revving even if you have the throttle position set low?


Great question. No, the low throttle position seems perfect. Stable rpm and much lower than full throttle. Enough power to move the machine, but would probably stall if you threw snow. 

What is interesting is that when operating the throttle lever, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground between low throttle and maximum rpm. In other words, when I move the throttle lever from the slowest position to the fastest, it is not a gradual increase in rpm. Instead, there seems to be a tipping point somewhere in the middle where the engine rpm jumps from slowest to fastest.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

If the throttle is overly sensitive, you may need to re-position where the cable is attached to the carb bracket. Side it back a bit. Also, there should be a set screw that limits the opening of the throttle plate. I can't recall where it's at. I will take a look at mine tonight.


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

I did play with the screw that holds the throttle cable to the bracket, but it didn't help. I will check to see if I can find a throttle limiting set screw. If you happen to snap a picture of yours, I would be ever so grateful!


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

here is the screw to limit the throttle position


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

in this pic, note the lever position


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

WestminsterFJR said:


> here is the screw to limit the throttle position


Thank you a bunch. I will check this out tomorrow first thing.


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

WestminsterFJR said:


> here is the screw to limit the throttle position


My carb looks a little different than yours. Here is a picture of mine:






.

There is also a screw on the same side of my carb (red circle), but I think the screw on my carb is the low speed air/fuel mix screw. There is a second screw on the opposite side of my carb (green circle) that sets the minimum low speed rpm. Am I missing anything? Thanks again for your help.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

correct. 
red = low idle mixture
green = throttle limiting screw

when you move the throttle position lever on the handle, you will see the butterfly on the carb move and make contact with this set screw when it is in the 'fast' position. 

What is the position of your governor linkage currently? It is adjusted similarly to the one in my pic?


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

WestminsterFJR said:


> correct.
> red = low idle mixture
> green = throttle limiting screw
> 
> ...


I am a little confused. Are you saying that when I move the throttle to the 'fast' position, the carb butterfly makes contact with the low idle mixture screw? 

Yes, as far as I can tell, my governor linkage is set similarly to yours. Although the spring does look a little stretched. Perhaps this could somehow be involved? I confess that I don't understand how the governor works... [edit] What I meant to say is I understand that a governor limits rpms, I just don't understand how this particular governor accomplishes that task. I look at it and I see a hinged piece of metal connected to a mess of linkage...


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Kens governer is straight out, yours is still angled a bit. 
Ken, you do a real nice job woth those pix, very helpful!


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Kens governer is straight out, yours is still angled a bit.
> Ken, you do a real nice job woth those pix, very helpful!


True, mine is angled back a bit. However, I have tried it in various positions: a) straight out as Ken's is, b) slightly angled back as it is now, c) slightly angled forward, d) steeply angled back.

The only thing I have been able to do is make the situation worse (i.e. even higher rpms) by angling it forward. Any position between out from the swinging/hinged part to angled 90 degrees back from the swinging/hinged part seems to make no difference.

I agree, Ken's photos are a huge help.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks guys, hope it helps. I'm not an expert, but from my observations, the governor not only limits the max rpm, but it will also increase the rpm when the machine starts to bog down under load. It basically attempts to keep the rpm at 3600. It does this via a centrifugal wheel on the inside of the housing. as the rpm exceeds 3600, the lever starts to move forward, which in turn tugs on the linkage and reduces the throttle. When the rpms decline due to a load, the centrifugal mechanism moves the lever rearwards, which moves the linkage to open the throttle more. All this works on a fine balance of spring tension and lever movements.

One thing I've noticed in your pic is your spring is tensioned. Notice how mine is quite loose at rest. Try adjusting the lever so that the spring tension is relaxed at rest, or move the spring to a closer hole.


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

I didn't realize the spring was supposed to be loose at high throttle. Maybe that is my problem. Here is what the spring looks like at the low speed throttle setting. Anyone know a part number or specs for the replacement spring?


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

WestminsterFJR said:


> Thanks guys, hope it helps. I'm not an expert, but from my observations, the governor not only limits the max rpm, but it will also increase the rpm when the machine starts to bog down under load. It basically attempts to keep the rpm at 3600. It does this via a centrifugal wheel on the inside of the housing. as the rpm exceeds 3600, the lever starts to move forward, which in turn tugs on the linkage and reduces the throttle. When the rpms decline due to a load, the centrifugal mechanism moves the lever rearwards, which moves the linkage to open the throttle more. All this works on a fine balance of spring tension and lever movements.
> 
> One thing I've noticed in your pic is your spring is tensioned. Notice how mine is quite loose at rest. Try adjusting the lever so that the spring tension is relaxed at rest, or move the spring to a closer hole.


Thanks for the explanation of how the governor works. And sorry to continue to pepper you with questions. I checked for air leaks today and found none, so I am still focusing on the governor. 

Below is a picture taken from the front of the machine. It shows what I understand to be the governor. It's like a swinging door, right? Does the centrifugal wheel attach to the bottom of the "swinging door" (circled in red)? 

If I were to use my hand to manually swing the governor out and back, how could I observe whether it was properly attached to that shaft that disappears into the motor?

Is there a chance that I need to make some adjustment to this (circled in red) portion of the governor? It looks like there is a second pivot point that I could adjust by loosening a screw with a flat head screwdriver or nut driver (my red circle touches this screw). 

There is also a bolt that goes into the engine inside of my red circle. Is there some sort of adjustment that I can (and should) make by loosening or removing this bolt?










Here is another view of my governor, from the top. Anything look funny? If you look inside my green circle, it seems like the long arm (painted black) in not perfectly in line with the shorter (painted white) part.










Thanks again for your help.

Jason


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Yes, your green circle is where the arm attaches to the governor mechanism which is inside the engine case. I will take a look at how my links are connected. 

Was this over-revving problem present when you purchased the blower? Or is it a recently development?


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

WestminsterFJR said:


> Yes, your green circle is where the arm attaches to the governor mechanism which is inside the engine case. I will take a look at how my links are connected.
> 
> Was this over-revving problem present when you purchased the blower? Or is it a recently development?


Thanks for looking at your links. 

I purchased the blower this fall. It started up and seemed to, run okay when I bought it. The previous owners had let it sit for a couple of seasons. When I started using it to actually blow snow this winter, it started over revving.

[EDIT] I just took a close look at my governor shaft. I used a pair of needle nose pliers to try to manually turn the governor shaft, but it didn't budge. I started up the engine and observed the governor. It didn't seem to do anything and I detected no visible turning of the governor shaft. So I am thinking that the gear inside must be stuck or jammed or something. 

Any suggestions for troubleshooting at this point? I was just googling "stuck governor shaft". Someone suggested spraying penetrating oil onto the shaft and waiting a day. Any reason to suggest that this might harm my engine?


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

I just did a little more troubleshooting. I removed the hinged door part of the governor (maybe called the clamp?) so that I could manipulate just the governor shaft. With the engine not running, I can lift and twist is about 1/8 of a turn counter-clockwise (toward the engine block). So there is a little movement there. I'm just not sure how much it's supposed to turn.

Also, I removed the small piece of metal that interfaces directly with the governor shaft. The governor shaft is round when it exits the engine case, but becomes rectangular at the very top where it inserts through the top part of this piece of metal. It looks like the hole in this piece of metal is supposed to be rectangular as well. Below is a picture of what mine currently looks like. 










I think it's missing some metal to the right of the red line. In fact, when I removed it, the metal on to the left side of the rectangular hole was bent out, making the hole even larger than it is now. I'm thinking I could sand off the paint and apply some JB weld where the missing metal is. But before I do so, I wanted to make sure my "fix" will be returning it to it's original condition. Could someone with the same engine/governor post a picture of their setup to make sure I don't mess it up further? I would really appreciate it.

Jason


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Jason, I believe you are correct. The rectangular opening is missing a piece. The bracket should clamp around the governor shaft tightly. See pics:


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## jhawks_rock (Jan 9, 2015)

WestminsterFJR said:


> Jason, I believe you are correct. The rectangular opening is missing a piece. The bracket should clamp around the governor shaft tightly. See pics:


Awesome. Thank you so much for your help. So I guess my machine effectively has functional governor. I will attempt a JB Weld fix. Hopefully, this will solve my issue. I will post back with results.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Any time. Let me if you need any additional pics.


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