# Tecumseh starter help Please....



## sixty4 (Dec 21, 2015)

Hi all. I have a problem with my Ariens model 932105. My electric starter went bad so I pulled it off. The number on the starter said 37000. I ordered one from amazon and installed but did not engage the flywheel. Ok so I took that one off and inspected the flywheel (from where starter goes in pulling the cord to check) for chips missing teeth all looked good. I then thought maybe I have the wrong starter that someone put on (as I bought machine used) so I ordered one out from Jacks Small engines. I gave them my Tecumseh engine model number HMSK85 Spec number 155912c. The new starter arrived part number 33329e I installed this and flywheel will not engage. What am I missing please? I searched and someone said they had an issue with starter dogs (what are these could this be whats going on)? I always thought the starter motor pushed gear forward to hit and turn flywhheel? Not sure what to look for? One last thing when I use the pull cord it fires right up so am not totally without use of machine. Again Thanks!!!


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

The dogs usually relate to the manual pull start assembly. Does the gear on the orig starter match the gear on the new starter? If you manually turn the gears does it spin up to the same hight on the shaft?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mrfixit (Dec 3, 2016)

I would line them up and look for differences.
Test them on the bench and see if the starter gear is moving to the end of the shaft to engage the flywheel.
Have you checked the starter electrical circuit?


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## evh (Jun 22, 2015)

Two things, and I am just brainstorming here:

1. Check to make sure your flywheel is not loose. I doubt it, because I doubt it would run. But if the flywheel moved away from the engine, the starter gear might not be able to reach it.

2. Check where the starter is mounting on the engine. Did it slide "back" or in some direction so the gear is further from the flywheel?

Finally, compare the gear on your old starter to the two you purchased, do they look the same?

Also, when you say it wouldn't start the motor, I assume you hear it just whine (i.e. the electric starter is spinning, but it is not grabbing the teeth on the flywheel)?

Finally (yea, I know this is way out there), try a different extension cord and a different socket/plug to start it from.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

How did you conclude that it was the original Starter itself that "went bad" ?


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## sixty4 (Dec 21, 2015)

Vermont007 said:


> How did you conclude that it was the original Starter itself that "went bad" ?


It was not even turning over. When I did remove it and tapped the side it would spin.


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## sixty4 (Dec 21, 2015)

mrfixit said:


> I would line them up and look for differences.
> Test them on the bench and see if the starter gear is moving to the end of the shaft to engage the flywheel.
> Have you checked the starter electrical circuit?


Yes I can hear the motor and see the gear push out when out of machine. The only circuit is the switch to motor that I replaced right?


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## sixty4 (Dec 21, 2015)

evh said:


> Two things, and I am just brainstorming here:
> 
> 1. Check to make sure your flywheel is not loose. I doubt it, because I doubt it would run. But if the flywheel moved away from the engine, the starter gear might not be able to reach it.


This is almost what I thought as well at first the wrong starter not enough throw. As crazy as that sounds? 
Still no clue why this is not working for me?


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## sixty4 (Dec 21, 2015)

e.fisher26 said:


> The dogs usually relate to the manual pull start assembly. Does the gear on the orig starter match the gear on the new starter? If you manually turn the gears does it spin up to the same hight on the shaft?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ahh going out to find out right now!

Same distance 1-3/8" motor sends gear out then retracts but will not stay out continuously (this I assume normal).


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

The starter motor that had worked was a 37000. Did you order another 37000 from Amazon ??
Any chance there was any material (washers, shim stock, ... ?) under the starter to shim it out some and help it engage the flywheel ??

In looking up the engine on two different sites it looks like the 33329 is the correct one.
What are you using for an extension cord ?? Is it the short one for the snowblower or possibly a longer one with thinner wire ??


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## sixty4 (Dec 21, 2015)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> The starter motor that had worked was a 37000. Did you order another 37000 from Amazon ??
> Any chance there was any material (washers, shim stock, ... ?) under the starter to shim it out some and help it engage the flywheel ??
> 
> In looking up the engine on two different sites it looks like the 33329 is the correct one.
> What are you using for an extension cord ?? Is it the short one for the snowblower or possibly a longer one with thinner wire ??


The one from amazon was one that said it would replace the 37000. This starter had no shims at all, it had two screws that mounted it directly to the block like the original. The cord I used is a short black one that came with the new electric starter. I have been racking my brain trying to figure this one out. Noticed while bench testing when I plug in and hit button the gear gets thrown out only for a short while then falls back is this correct? Thanks so much for any help!!!


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Sometimes you have to tweak / bend the feet on the starter. The few troublesome starters I've had to deal with had similar issues. What i did was to pull the heater box and the front shroud off of the engine and actually see what was happening when the starter was engaged. 
Make sure you pull the sparkplug wire off at a minimum, remove the plug if you want the engine easier to turn over. Be careful of spinning flywheel & teeth. Once you see how / why / where the misalignment is you can shim or bend feet to correct.
Think it was 3 or 4 screws holding the heater box on, there was like two bolts on the top of the shroud, two on the bottom near the base, then the two little screws on the throttle plate ( if you have that style ), pull straight off till you can get enough slack to pull off the primer bulb hose. 
Now you can give the starter button a push and see whats happening. 

PLEASE BE CAREFUL OF ROTATING PARTS !!!

Hope this helps you with your starter problem.


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

I bought a newer starter for an older Tech. In order to make it fit [work] I had to add two washers to each mounting boss [lug], because it was too tight to the flywheel. It's been running.for about 20 years. Couldn't not buy it, it was $4.00 at sears. Your situation might the opposite.
Sid


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## sixty4 (Dec 21, 2015)

Shaw351 said:


> Sometimes you have to tweak / bend the feet on the starter. The few troublesome starters I've had to deal with had similar issues.
> 
> Hope this helps you with your starter problem.


Yes it did!!!
Thank you ALL SO MUCH!!! I would have never thought of this! Sure enough I laid the new one and old one on the level bench with a level on the old starter I took a measurement then went to the new one and tabs were off over an 1/8". Knocked them back and it worked. Again many many thanks to all that posted!


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

sixty4 said:


> Yes it did!!!
> Thank you ALL SO MUCH!!! I would have never thought of this! Sure enough I laid the new one and old one on the level bench with a level on the old starter I took a measurement then went to the new one and tabs were off over an 1/8". Knocked them back and it worked. Again many many thanks to all that posted!


Great 64 !!
Glad you got it fixed. Its soo frustrating to have a problem you can not figure out, but then the joy you have when its completed. 
It reminds me of my first automatic transmission swap, for some reason no matter what I did the transmission would not match up properly as the bolts seemed too short and the bellhousing would not sit flush against the block. 
Granted I was only 17 years old or so, I read the chiltons book and did exactly what it said. NO GO!! I must have removed that transmission and torque converter four or five times at a minimum. Still No Dice !! 

So I go to my local garage where I speak with the old mechanic who tells me I need to spin the torque converter until it clicks on to the shaft and it slides back..... 
I then tell him I have done that 4 or 5 times and it still will not fit together perfectly, he says does it click twice and slide back when you do it....
I Said Twice ?? He says yes, Twice, and be careful not to crush your fingers when it slides back. 
I promptly went home, pulled out the transmission and torque converter again, spun the torque converter and It clicked in once, then I spun it some more and low and behold it clicked a second time slipping back and proceeded to crush three of my fingers. 

It worked and I was so happy even though my fingers were throbbing !!!!

I wish back then there was such a thing as the internet and forums to go look stuff up, and YouTube is very helpful when you watch through 22 videos to find the one that is accurate :eusa_clap:


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Congrats S/4 on the repair!!! And for others that buy "Internet Starters", Watch out for incorrect pinion gears. I've has 4/5 machines brought in with the complaint of, "I just got this new starter online, and all it does is grind". I agree, pull off the engine cover and check gear alignment. 1/2 are the wrong tooth count on the gears....other half are alignment/feet/shim issues. Just something Else to watch out for. That money they 'saved' buying online parts went to Jayz pocket...... Thank You Internet, you've been very good to me!!! Jay


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

It's always nice when it turns out to be something simple.That usually doesn't happen to me-but glad it did for you.


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## Dusty (Dec 13, 2018)

I just had this same issue. The new Chinese starter bendix from Amazon has a little more side to side play than the original. I had to bend the tabs on the starter body to get the bendix closer to the ring gear to get it to work properly. It took a few attempts. After that it worked fine. So if you run into this issue on one of those Chinese made bendix gears for the 37000 Tecumseh starter







, be prepared to do what I just did. Make sure you get them as lined up as possible or the ring gear will break the teeth off the new bendix and the new bendix will start smashing the teeth on the flywheel ring gear. It happened to also be an Ariens 932105 "full size" 8526 snowblower with the 318cc Tecumseh coincidentally, but this goes for them all.
This machine was given to me. The original bendix was completely destroyed. Their was a mouse nest under the cover. So the bendix was fighting a mouse nest for the ring gear. I believe this ultimately forced the starter to become offset from where it originally sat, the bendix got destroyed as a result. So adjustments had to be made to the starter body mount tabs. Be aware, the teeth on the original bendix probably broke because the starter moved out from exactly where it has to lined up with the ring gear, it doesn't take much to cause this issue. That is why those who say they are using 7hp starters on 8hp engines and vise versa is not a good idea. The starter for each of these engines is made specifically to line up. Different size engine blocks. If you take a 7hp starter and use shims to force it too line up, over time, if the mounting bolts loosen, the starter bendix or flywheel ring gear will take damage. If its your flywheel ring gear, it will be a costly mistake, so its best to use the right starter for the right engine from the start and not force one made for another engine on. They make different starters for different engines for a reason.
As far as the necessity for a 120 volt starter on one of these engine's, as a younger guy, 35 now, I had a Snapper 8246 I used commercially for 10 years and I never once needed electric start. In fact grabbing an extension cord would have been more hassle. If the engine is maintained. It always started easily within 3 pulls under any weather conditions and those engines were not hard to pull. The newer ones are getting even easier to pull. So unless you have a bad shoulder for example or are an older gentleman, theirs really no need for it IMO. Except when selling a machine to add value/desire.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Dusty
Didn't see where you mentioned the actual bolts used. The starters that are open like you show that I've had used a shoulder bolt to mount the starter to the block. The ones that had the whole hole in the lower mounts used a regular bolt in them. The wrong bolts allowed the starter to move, not a good thing.
One other thing people need to check if a starter isn't working correctly, there are 2 different bendix gears with different tooth counts. I've seen both so insure you get the right one.


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## Dusty (Dec 13, 2018)

I have yet to see a bendix from an electric starter with different teeth count for a specific Tecumseh horsepowered engine and I have dealt with several dozen at this point. I have seen that with Briggs and Stratton for example where if the ring gear was the plastic style it used the 16 tooth metal bendix and if it was a metal ring gear it used the 14 tooth plastic bendix, than yes you need to be sure you have the correct bendix on their, but not a Tecumseh horizontal snowking, the tooth count remained the same throughout production and so did the ring gear on the flywheel, the only changes to the flywheel were the magnets for spark going from the inside of the flywheel on pre 1982 solid state point engines to the magnets for spark going to the outside of the flywheel for the modern solid state coil. In that case for example weather it was an 8hp made in 1972 or an 8hp made in 2004 the tooth count on the bendix remained the same throughout production. The difference I saw is the older starters had a wider shaft with larger threads, the starter bendix they sell on ebay comes with an adapter base so that you can use the newer bendix on older starter motors with the wider shaft. I did not need to use that piece as this starter was one of the newer ones. As to the second point, I did mention that. As time went on Tecumseh started using slotted tabs at the top which slide onto shoulder bolts for easier installation, the older ones weren't like that, you had to use 4 normal bolts to mount the old ones and the fuel tank had to be removed in order to tighten the top two. Later starters used shoulder bolts to make it easier to install the starter with pre installed T35 shoulder bolts arleady installed to the block ready for starter installation. To clarify further, in order to make my amazon starter bendix work properly I had to remove my gas tank, remove those t35 shoulder bolts and install regular bolts in place of those to gain the correct gap for the new bendix. But yes, I did mention the easy install revision in my first response. Attached is a photo of the adapter base included with the new starter bendix if you are installing this onto the older wider shaft fatter thread starters. I can also take a picture of a starter from 1972 and one from 2004 to show what differences their is. Tooth count isn't one of them. For those interested, included in the new bendix kit, comes, 1 modern bendix, 1 old style adapter base for older Tecumseh starters with the wider shaft and fatter threads (not used unless installing to the older starter), 1 new spring, 1 new clip, 1 new shaft end clip cover. As you can see, I did not use the adapter, spring, clip or end cap. I only needed the bendix.


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