# LED light and DC linear actuator chute deflector install



## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

I've got some LED burnout issues...
The machine is a yard king signature 9hp 29". I believe it's made by Murray, same as a Craftsman, Noma, etc.
My issue is that the chute deflector broke, the part was unavailable, so I had to use a similar part & make it work. Then that broke. Removed it and converted the chute control to DC servo cylinder / linear actuator. But the incandescent bulb (very dim, by the way) had such high power draw that it took the servo about 30 seconds to cycle. Too slow. 
I had to install a bridge to get DC for the servo. Then added a momentary MOM-OFF-MOM switch. I added a relay so when the servo switch was pressed, the light would turn off. This did not function because the power draw of the incandescent lamp was so high the relay coil could not energize. 
I put an LED bulb in place of the factory incandescent, hoping with the low power consumption of the LED, the relay would function. 
VICTORY!
The deflector now works as intended, relay functions to momentarily turn off the light while the servo is moving. Total deflector cycle time is less than 6 seconds. This is acceptable to me, as usually I make a chute adjustment and don't move the chute deflector all the way up or all the way down. 
The bad news is that the LED didnt last more than a day or 2. The first LED was a $9.99 per pair from Amazon. Dead. Tried AStar (I think that was the brand). I guess for $30 a pair I thought maybe it would have something to protect it. Nope. Burnt it up, too. I would like to correct this to make the LED work without burning up. It was so much brighter than the incandescent. 
Also, I did wire in a cap, but I can't remember the Farad rating. Maybe 1000 uf? 
I have a fluke RMS meter, and at one point had all the AC & DC voltages(at idle, max RPM, light on, light off, deflector moving, etc). I'll try to find my records of these voltages, but if necessary, I could get them again. If I remember correctly the max RPM voltage was high (maybe 40 volts or so)

Thanks for your help!


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

Used the snowblower today & the JD AStar LED lit upon startup! Awesome! Until it shutoff... Not sure why it started working again or why it stopped again. Any ideas?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Interesting. Maybe you're right on the edge of the voltage range that makes it happy? What's your current voltage? And what's the voltage range of the LED? No loose wires anywhere?


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Interesting. Maybe you're right on the edge of the voltage range that makes it happy? What's your current voltage? And what's the voltage range of the LED? No loose wires anywhere?


No loose wires.

Here are the voltages I recorded before putting in the LED & relay:

At MAX RPM: 
26 volts when servo is at its limit (light shuts off)
4.3 volts light on, servo moving 
41 volts light off, servo not moving 
16 volts light off, servo moving 
6 volts light on

At idle RPM:
28 volts @ idle, no load 
11 volts @ idle, servo only 
4.2 volts @ idle, light only 
3.3 volts @ idle, light on & servo moving 

Did I mention that the original light was very dim?

Maybe I should check the voltage with just the LED light on? The incandescent bulb was bringing the voltage down a lot, so I thought the LED bulb would help. But maybe it is outside of the 9-30 volt rating.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

underp2 said:


> Maybe I should check the voltage with just the LED light on? The incandescent bulb was bringing the voltage down a lot, so I thought the LED bulb would help. But maybe it is outside of the 9-30 volt rating.



I would definitely check full-RPM, with the servo not moving. If that's 28V at idle, then you're probably >30V at full throttle. The LED will likely draw less power, so it will cause less of a voltage reduction than the incandescent.


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

Right. I had 41 volts with no draw at max RPM. Never checked the voltage with just the LED. It's -4°F out there right now, wind chill is -32°F. So I guess testing will have to wait. Why do you think the LED would have started working again? Just lucky? Lol. Usually when an electrical item fails, they don't come back to life.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Beats me, there is enough going on inside those LEDs (such as the electronics that allow a 9-30V input voltage range) that I have no guess as to what might make that happen. 

The suggestions in the other thread might help regulate the voltage down, before it gets to the LED. Such as a DC bucking voltage regulator. 

Interesting to see 16V, servo moving, light off, but 4V, servo moving, light on. The LED seems to be drawing a lot more power than the servo. Can you use a less-powerful LED? Along with a DC regulator, to keep it consistent, and under 30V, to the light and servo?


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Beats me, there is enough going on inside those LEDs (such as the electronics that allow a 9-30V input voltage range) that I have no guess as to what might make that happen.
> 
> The suggestions in the other thread might help regulate the voltage down, before it gets to the LED. Such as a DC bucking voltage regulator.
> 
> Interesting to see 16V, servo moving, light off, but 4V, servo moving, light on. The LED seems to be drawing a lot more power than the servo. Can you use a less-powerful LED? Along with a DC regulator, to keep it consistent, and under 30V, to the light and servo?


Those numbers are for the original incandescent bulb, not the LED. I don't have the LED voltage numbers.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Oops, sorry, missed that part, my bad. I'd at least check minimum-load and max-load voltages with the LED. Full-throttle with just the light, full-throttle with the light on and servo moving, etc. Checking at idle may be less-critical? That will reduce your voltage, but you'd mainly care what's happening while blowing (full throttle), and lower voltages should at least be safer than high voltages. 

I think a regulator is going to be a good idea, though. Your LED is rated for 9-30V, and your max voltage is 41V. Still at 26V with the servo working. So it's not unreasonable to think it'll be >30V with just the LED.


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

I tested the voltage today. It is between 29 and 31 volts with just the LED on. Checked AC voltage, wiring from generator to bridge rectifier to momentary reversing switch to relay to LED. Verified several things along the way. Verified LED function straight from the bridge. Verified LED polarity. The previous LED burnt out (cheaper one couldn't take the voltage? Or this one had more lumens & causes more voltage drop, just barely bringing it into the "safe" range?) 
Possibly when that LED burnt out, the new LED was installed with incorrect polarity? I thought the expensive LEDs weren't polarity sensitive? It also doesn't explain why it worked sometimes.


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

*Out again 😢*

Got 5 inches of cold dry snow last night. Light and chute deflector worked fine... Until they didn't. 😡

When the LED goes out, the DC linear actuator gets screwy, too. It moves unbelievably slow. Plus no LED light. Everything seemed to be working well for the first hour. Then the wind picked up and I tried to move the chute deflector downward. Nothing. Looked and noticed the LED was out. If I hold the switch down, it moved extremely slowly. 

Any more ideas?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I'd see if your voltages are still the same as they had been. Maybe the excessive load damaged the alternator?

As an alternative, perhaps you could mount a small 12V battery to power this stuff. 

With a suitable voltage regulator, or DC powered charging circuit, perhaps the alternator could also help keep the battery charged, while running? The battery would provide the brief bursts of high current, for the servo. And the alternator would run the light, and/or help keep the battery topped off while the engine was running. 

Just a battery would be simpler, of course, but it would eventually get discharged, you'd have to remember to keep that topped-off manually. Using the alternator to help maintain the battery would add complexity, but could offer some benefits.


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> I'd see if your voltages are still the same as they had been. Maybe the excessive load damaged the alternator?
> 
> As an alternative, perhaps you could mount a small 12V battery to power this stuff.
> 
> ...


Having an alternator charge a battery so I could use 12 volts DC seems complicated because I'm trying to use the voltage from the alternator to begin with.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Sure. But perhaps the alternator can't really provide the short-term bursts of current that you're asking for, with the servo + light. A battery could supply those high-current needs. 

And the rest of the time, when you're *not* turning the servo, the alternator could slowly be recharging the battery. 

It's a clumsy analogy, but the alternator's output is a bit like a slow stream from a faucet. Constant, but limited. And if you want to put a lot of water on something at once (running the light + servo), it won't do you much good. A battery would be more like a bucket. Have the faucet keep the bucket topped-off, and you can periodically scoop a whole bunch of water out of the bucket at once (running the light + servo), to really soak something. Once you stop throwing water, the faucet goes back to slowly refilling the bucket (alternator charging battery). 

An air compressor + tank is maybe a better analogy. The compressor itself (alternator) can't provide enough constant air to run your impact gun or whatever. But the tank gradually stores up enough energy (battery) to run it for bursts. 

I'm making assumptions, of course. Mainly that the motor & LED are still functioning properly, but that your problem stems from over-loading the alternator (even if just temporarily). And there's been enough discussion & changes that I'm not sure how it's all hooked up at the moment (if it's still supposed to turn off the LED when running the servo, etc). 

I'm not quite sure what to make of "When the LED goes out, the DC linear actuator gets screwy, too.". Is the LED still supposed to be turning off when running the servo? 

To diagnose what's currently going on you'll at least need to check your current voltages, vs what you had before the recent problems. If the same load (like just the LED) was measuring 30V before, and is 15V now (or whatever), then I'd say either you have a bad connection somewhere, or the alternator is failing. You could disconnect loads one at a time and see what changes.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

I agree with R/O, Using an alternator to run a high current device is asking for troubles. I would use a small 12v battery, doesn't have to be large or fancy. I'm sure you could use some type of capacitor also, but I'm not smart enough to make a recommendation like that. But you will need some type of storage device to run those accessories.


GLuck, Jay


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## tuffnell (Dec 1, 2011)

RedOctobyr;1644591
It's a clumsy analogy said:


> Love your analogies:grin::grin:


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

I guess the next step will be to go to a battery setup, even though that's what I was trying to avoid. I have a small 12 volt battery from a jump pack repower. I'm sure that will be plenty for a LED. The chute deflector is used only occasionally, and momentarily. And it's max current draw is 4.6 amps at 12 volts. The linear actuator is a PL14-2BK.
I'll be sure to set the battery up so it is trickle charger ready. I'll see how it goes. I can also add an ON-OFF switch for the light if needed. Then I can turn it off during daytime use to conserve battery. I'd prefer to leave it on for safety reasons so cars can see me working out by the road.

How many amps is a snowblower able to produce? I don't think I'll have the Snowblower charge the battery, because the voltage seems to vary so widely, and even with the capacitor, the voltage is kinda dirty.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Some blower alternators are about 18W, or roughly 1.5A. But it depends what's on your machine. 

Again, using a DC->DC voltage converter could at least give you a "lowest common denominator" output from the alternator, maybe controlled down to 13V or whatever. I'd look and see if there are lead-acid chargers, or charging circuits, that can run from ~12V DC. That's not a common problem, but if someone already made something like that, inexpensively, then it could work nicely. 

Or just use a trickle-charger between uses, as you said. That requires a bit more maintenance, but is pretty trivial to implement, just mount a battery, and connect it to the deflector switch.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

The Honda Regulator/Rectifier 31750-735-013 used to charge the HSS series batteries is under $20...


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

Will that Honda part actually "regulate" voltage? Or is it doing the same thing as the bridge rectifier I'm already using?


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

*Now battery mount issues... It's always something*



underp2 said:


> I guess the next step will be to go to a battery setup, even though that's what I was trying to avoid. I have a small 12 volt battery from a jump pack repower. I'm sure that will be plenty for a LED. The chute deflector is used only occasionally, and momentarily. And it's max current draw is 4.6 amps at 12 volts. The linear actuator is a PL14-2BK.
> I'll be sure to set the battery up so it is trickle charger ready. I'll see how it goes. I can also add an ON-OFF switch for the light if needed. Then I can turn it off during daytime use to conserve battery. I'd prefer to leave it on for safety reasons so cars can see me working out by the road.
> 
> How many amps is a snowblower able to produce? I don't think I'll have the Snowblower charge the battery, because the voltage seems to vary so widely, and even with the capacitor, the voltage is kinda dirty.


Well I added the battery. It's a small 12v from a trailer breakaway brake box. The light and switch worked well until the battery fell on my foot. Glad I didn't use a bigger battery. 
Wondering what anyone has used to mount batteries. I had it strapped down between the terminals to a cross bar of the handle bars. The vibration this thing makes is ridiculous. 
I was thinking of putting it in a small canvas bag and hanging the bag handles so it would be suspended. I think if I used a battery box it would vibrate itself to death. And the battery is much too small for the box. I could put some foam on the bottom of the box or in the bag to try to damp the vibration. 

Any ideas? Or should I just start a new post about battery mounts? Then update this post with the findings?


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

To start with, what group type battery are you using? That will determine the mounting strategy. Is it something like a UB1250 5AH battery? If so, I'd use a Curt Manufacturing 52022 and pad the battery inside with foam for a snug fit and mount the box directly to the crossbar.


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

tabora said:


> To start with, what group type battery are you using? That will determine the mounting strategy. Is it something like a UB1250 5AH battery? If so, I'd use a Curt Manufacturing 52022 and pad the battery inside with foam for a snug fit and mount the box directly to the crossbar. https://www.amazon.com/CURT-52022-B...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=06K0EKH0XARWAW3EBXC9


I bought the trailer breakaway kit (trailer could use a new one anyway, if this doesn't work). I zip tied their wires out of the way and used a lead from a battery minder. That way when I'm done blowing,I can park it & plug the snowblower into the battery minder. I used another battery minder lead to power the light & DC linear actuator. This way the battery is either plugged into the charger or the light & actuator. Either charging or running. The battery box is mounted to the handlebar crossbar with a dozen zip ties. I can use wire if those break in the cold. I'll have to see how it all holds up to the vibration. 

I'm thinking of disconnecting the relay so the LED doesn't turn off during chute deflector manipulation (there should be plenty of power now that the battery is running the show). 
Also thinking about disconnecting the snowblower's generator wire from the circuit. It's dirty voltage & spikes may not be good for the battery.
I've also considered using a 4-pack of 18650 Li-Ion batteries (or several 4-packs tired together). 4 batteries make 14.8 volts, I believe. Small, lightweight, I already have a charger for them...

Any thoughts?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

(4) 18650's, fully-charged, may be more like 16.4V or so, depending on the final charge voltage. They might be a nice solution, just be sure they're safe. That they can't short themselves out somehow, etc.


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> (4) 18650's, fully-charged, may be more like 16.4V or so, depending on the final charge voltage. They might be a nice solution, just be sure they're safe. That they can't short themselves out somehow, etc.


Oh. I thought 3.7 volts each. Maybe fully charged they're more like 4.1 or 4.2? It's been awhile since I tried to rebuild a Li-Ion battery pack.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

The 3.7V is likely the nominal voltage, but fully-charged will be higher, I'd guess 4.1-4.2V. I don't know why they're described that way. 

But Lithium Polymer cells I've used for a hobby are 3.7V nominal, so a 6-cell pack would be listed as 22.2V. But they are charged to 4.2V/cell, so it was 25.2V when fully-charged. If someone using that pack really needed 22.2V, they would get a surprise.


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

I'm sure it would be fine for the LED light and the linear actuator. They're rated 9-30v or so.


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## underp2 (Feb 1, 2018)

Following up on this...
I'm still using the trailer brake-away battery box. It's been working fine for a while now. I have developed some LED flicker which was bothersome, at first. I have since found that it is vibration causing the wire at the LED bulb to have poor contact. I need to find a better way to connect, but not sure that I want to solder that socket. 
Bottom line: 
Linear actuator and switch are still working flawlessly.
JD Astar bulb is still working. 
Battery setup is still working well.

Happy blowing!


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