# Wet Friction Disc



## hortlady1 (Jan 23, 2012)

hortlady1
I think my friction disc is wet. Engine runs great but snow blower will not move. I moved the shoes the whole way down before blowing snow yesterday cause the neighbor was concerned of having slick ice sidewalks if all the snow was removed. With the shoes like that it left about 1 1/2- 2" of snow on the ground but it was a wet snow. Since the snow was so wet and the under belly of the blower was dragging on the wet snow, I think everything is wet in the gear area. I am scared of removing the rear panels cause I did that before and I made a real mess of things and off to the shop it had to go, and I don't want that. I removed the belt guard to see if the belt was bad, looked O.K. I tighten the cable without viewing the manual but still nothing, not even in the Rabbit gear.

Anybody have any thoughts? The little 4 hp machine has been running well since I installed the carburetor that the wonderful member found for me.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

with the belt cover off start the machine and engage the wheels. look at the belt going around. there are three pulleys for the drive. one on the motor one idler and one bigger one lower down that spins the drive system. while the drive is engaged look into the belt area, make sure all the pulleys are spinning together. if any pulley (mainly the one on the engine and the large lowest one) are slipping in the belt, you need a belt. if everything seems to be spinning properly read on.

put something under the belly so the wheels are off the ground. start it up and try forward and reverse gears. if it changes gears and spins the wheels forward and backward you are making some contact with the friction disc. 

while the wheels are in the air and engaged see if you can stop the wheels with your hand or a stick or something. if you can stop them there is problem. either the friction disc is wet, worn or something is broken or miss adjusted and is leaving just enough friction/tension to spin the wheels but not move the machine.

If you can remove the belt cover you can remove the belly pan, it wont mess anything up if you dont touch anything. check the above and report back. we can use pictures to diagnose further without you having to take anything apart.


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## hortlady1 (Jan 23, 2012)

Sorry to take so long to get back to you but had to do some snow removal by hand while it is melting. Did as you said. I believe all three pulleys are spinning together. I raised up the belly and had wheels off the ground. The wheels turned and I was able to shift it forward and backward. I was able to stop the wheels with a stick. It is making some contact with the friction disc. Before I do anything else, I have to run to the store to get my medication I should have gotten Wed. before our storm. We got 11+ inches and we are suppose to get 3-6 more over night into noon tomorrow. While I am gone, you can tell me how to place the blower to remove the belly pan and what to look for. Thank you sir!!!


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

Horticulture Lady,

I remember you from your carb thread and clearly remember that I like everything about you (Except your ability to post pictures). I'll tell you a little story of my personal experience and we shall see if it at all applies to you.

My Craftsman machine would get a lot of water on the machine when operating in wet slushy stuff because at the time my cheap plastic chute had a big crack that threw a steady little stream of snow back onto the body of the machine. Sometimes my blower would do exactly what yours does. I have very low hours on my machine and I know that nothing in the drive is worn out (O.K. I assumed that). After I replaced the chute there was no longer any drive slipping issues at all. There was also oil leaking out from the fill cap at the base of the engine (Those have no seal so if you overfill the oil a little they will leak out). I really think my drive issues were completely from water and not oil. I have run for 2 seasons without a recurrence since I replaced the cheap, crappy, flimsy, annoying, plastic chute (can you tell I don't like that design ).

I have a feeling that when you raised your bucket the change in angle got your friction wheel setup wet. If the water is frozen then your just spinning on ice. I hope I am right about this one as your problem seems to have come on very suddenly.


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## hortlady1 (Jan 23, 2012)

scipper77 I looked at the friction disc and wheel. I wiped them off with a clean rag and there wasn't much dirt. No real water. I but the belly pan back on and started it but no it will not move. donnyboy73 used gas to clean both the disc and wheel. Maybe I should go back and clean it that was. Yeah, maybe it does need a new belt . . . I don't know.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

with the snow blower on its front end and the belly pan off. 

use some twine or such to tie the drive lever down.

once the lever is tied down, grab a wheel and turn it by hand, it may be a little tough since the friction wheel is engaged but you want to see where it is slipping as you turn the wheel. you are trying to over ride the disc.

first look and see if when you spin the wheel the friction wheel spins. if the lever is engaged and you can spin the tire and the friction wheel spins even though it is in contact with the drive plate you need a new friction disc or an adjustment of the drive linkage.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

ps. run the blower with the gas valve off until it stalls so when you tilt the snowblower up on its front end it does not leak out the carb.

if you have no gas valve watch for gas and put a rag down to catch it, or run till empty


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## hortlady1 (Jan 23, 2012)

td5771 Will do as you suggested!


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

if you cant spin the tire with the drive engaged no matter how hard you try to turn the wheel, it is most likely a belt needing replacement.

If you can spin the tire and the friction disc is spinning it needs to be adjusted or replaced

if you can spin the tire but the friction wheel is not spinning you need to follow the drive train from the wheels back to the disc to see where the slippage is.

lets wait and see what you find


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## hortlady1 (Jan 23, 2012)

To td5771: Did as you suggested in 6:37 P.M. POST. With drive engaged I was able to spin the tires but the friction wheel did not spin. If I am not too wiped out, I will do according to line 3 of your post. Too much wet snow removal by hand + doing some roof raking. I want it to stop snowing!!! Thanks for your help. I really do want to know what ails my little blower.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Have you watched any of the videos from donyboy73 on friction discs? Most of his videos are replacing the disc, but he does have some cable and belt adjustment videos as well. I don't recall any Snappers, but he does have a lot of MTD and Murray blowers. Truth is once you get the cover off the mostly look the same. If nothing else you can relax the rest of the day and watch a few videos and that should give you a real good understanding of how the system works.

donyboy73 - YouTube


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## hortlady1 (Jan 23, 2012)

Thanks, I watched a lot of donyboy73 on YouTube. This evening I moved the friction disc like he did on video of how disc works. Disc and plate O.K. From viewing lots of friction disc videos I found the roll pin holding the large sprocket or gear was nearly out. Snapper seems to use roll pin for everything. Saw that hanging out and I remember dony, used #8 bolts, and they went through the sprocket and axle and was kept in place by a lock nut. I put the roll pin back through the axle. It did not seem to fit very tight. Might take it out and try to find a #8 or #5 grade bolt and lock nut to use in place.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I think a lot of the makes use roll pins. MTD and Ariens do as well. I think they might be harder than bolts, not sure though. Probably saves them a bit of time and money during assembly as 1 roll pin is probably cheaper than a bolt plus a nut. Also no need for locknuts or loctite. Plus the machine can probably push them in faster than it can tighten a nut.

So in the end your problems were caused by a roll pin that wasn't locking the gear to the axle? Could be your roll pin broke too and is no longer going all the way through and that is why it is loose. Could be bend now too.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

I would use the bolt. Had a craftsman that had broken the bolt and I thought a roll Pin would. E better. It tightened things up and got rid of the play between the axle and gear but after literally 2 minutes of use the back and forth rocking of the gear going forwards and backwards shook the roll pin right out.


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

*The wet disc*

The reason they use roll pins is ease of assembly. Yeah they are hard, and they are also hollow, and hard would mean brittle. I had one fail after 40 years on my 47 yr sears/murray. I used a 5 or 8 bolt. It will last longer than me.
Sid
.


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

So whats the difference between a roll pin and a spring pin? I thought the hollow pins were spring pins.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

They are the same thing. I've always said roll pin but it looks like "spring pin" is the correct nomenclature for it. But I'm too old to change now 
_*"A spring pin (also called tension pin or roll pin)..."*_


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

scipper77 said:


> So whats the difference between a roll pin and a spring pin? I thought the hollow pins were spring pins.





Kiss4aFrog said:


> They are the same thing. I've always said roll pin but it looks like "spring pin" is the correct nomenclature for it. But I'm too old to change now
> _*"A spring pin (also called tension pin or roll pin)..."*_


I guess every once in a while I know what I'm talking about.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Be careful, every time I think that someone proves me wrong.


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Be careful, every time I think that someone proves me wrong.


Don't worry, I'm married. That feeling of knowing what's going on makes me nervous.


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## hortlady1 (Jan 23, 2012)

Hey, Guys . . . I did not want to say I had my Snapper fixed till I ran it and proved to myself it was fixed. THE SNAPPER RUNS AGAIN! The bolt did not want to go in. I questioned myself as to whether I got the right size. Turned the gear to the other end of hole and it went in nicely till it got to tighter end. Got it through with a few taps of hammer, hoping that would not mess up the threads. Nut went on well, tightened it up. Put everything together, started it up and away we went to blow some snow. Works great!!! Thanks to everyone . . . and oh, Donyboy73 videos are so great!


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