# 93 Octane Ethanol free gas



## Eafoxjr (Feb 24, 2016)

Here we go again. The more I study this forum the more confused I get.
A local gas station now sells 93 octane ethanol free gasoline. This brings up a few questions. 

1. Do I still need to add a stabilizer (treatment) to ethanol free gas? I plan to strictly use this gas in my new snowblower. 

2. Does using ethanol free gas change whether I should drain the tank and carburetor during the summer? The dealer recommended to close the fuel valve and run the carburetor dry after each run. They filled the tank with 91 octane 10% ethanol gas with stabilizer.

3. My lawn tractor has a plastic fuel tank, the push mower and snowblower have metal. Does summer and winter storage differ in metal as with plastic?

4. And lastly. Can I use the ethanol free gas with mixture in 2 cycle engines? ( string trimmer and leaf blower).

Toro Power Max HD 826 OXE


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

These are good questions and I have wondered how people store their machines here. I've had problems storing stabilized ethanol gas in a generator and needed carb work. I have not had any problems storing stabilized ethanol gas in a lawn tractor over the winter for 4 years now. I add double the stabilizer and fill up the tank. It has always fired up in the spring so far. This year I will drain the tank, add some trufuel (ethanol free gas) and run it dry.

I am thinking that using ethanol free gas (Trufuel) in the new snowblower is the right approach. I want to fill the tank at the first snow and then keep the tank filled throughout the snow season. Keeping the tank filled keeps less oxygen from interacting with the fuel. (It is oxygen that causes breakdown of some components in a process called oxidation.) I will use the fuel shut-off valve and drain the carb after each use. In the spring, I shut off the fuel, run dry, then drain the tank and the carb. I hope this is okay. I am new to this too. 

I don't see how it would hurt to add stabilizer to your premium ethanol-free fuel. I don't know if it is necessary though. In the old days, we never used stabilizer. I'm aware now that gasoline is a blend of different components. The big problem with ethanol gas is that ethanol separates from the gas and also attracts water. So a big pool of watery ethanol is left in the bottom of the tank near the pick-up. 

Yes, you can use ethanol-free gas with mix in 2-cycle 

Here is an excellent post from SnowG found in this thread:First time snowblower buyer/operator - need advice (Multi-page thread 1 2) Look under new posts-last 2 days.
Because your machine might go long periods without use, I strongly recommend TruFuel instead of ethanol. It will keep your fuel system from gumming up in storage and it remains stable at least 2 years, compared with treated ethanol (which is only good for 30-60 days). I have no financial interest in that company -- I just like my stuff to work when I need it. 

The following images are ethanol that was stored in a properly closed gas tank in an open boat for 60 days, and had been treated with Stabil360 ethanol fuel stabilizer at the time of purchase. The first picture shows it looked cloudy when siphoning it. 


Report this image


The second picture shows what it looked like after settling for a few hours. I think they call this "phase separation" and I assume the stuff on the top is gasoline and the stuff on the bottom is a mix of water and alcohol and perhaps other chemicals. Not suitable for use, regardless of what it is.


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## CO Snow (Dec 8, 2011)

If you calculate the price of Tru Fuel on a per gallon basis, it's like liquid gold. Buy E0 from a gas station. Here's a link to stations by state:

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

Thanks for the info about the non-ethanol gas, CO Snow.


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

Miles -- that was my post you referenced, and the original (with images) is here http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1036209-post3.html


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

Thanks, SnowG. My apologies for misrepresenting the quote. I have fixed the attribution. It is fine work and shows exactly why the ethanol gas causes problems.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

You can buy a gallon of True Fuel or one of their competitors for around $20/gallon plus or minus a dollar.

I think True fuel is great but you decide if it is worth the convenience.

If you get no-ethanol gas locally you should still use some type of stabilizer. Unless you are going to use it up fast. It is just good insurance against water condensation.

You can use the 93 octane in your two cycle OPE. Many 2 cycle mfg are now recommending 89 octane or higher. Some 2 cyce Manufacterers are private labeling a True Fuel type of product and it is 93 or 94 octain. Husqarvarna is one. Also, Some of the cheaper fuel line used on 2 cycle OPE is degraded quicker by ehtanol.

I use True fuel in my 2 Cycle OPE for the convenience. I use one can a year for about $6 and that covers me.
I don't think it is worth it for me in my 4 cycle machines. I just buy E0 gas or buy in small quantities and stabilize.

It is good to understand the pro and cons and everyone can decide what is best for them.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

$20.00 a gallon!? GOOD GRIEF! I go though 5-8 gallons a season in my blower..


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## CO Snow (Dec 8, 2011)

I only use E0 in the snow blower (stabilized plus Sea Foam) including for summer storage. I get it from the pump with a cost not much more than regular unleaded E10. I feel like it is cheap insurance and knock on wood, I've never had a carb or starting problem in any of my OPE. 

I don't use it during the mowing season with my riding mower but will use it before it's stored for the winter.


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

GoBlowSnow said:


> $20.00 a gallon!? GOOD GRIEF! I go though 5-8 gallons a season in my blower..


If you go through that much gas in your snowthrower than you don't need to worry as much about stability. Those of us who only get occasional use need to be a lot more concerned, and it's worth it not to have fuel system problems, IMHO


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

that's a valid point. Yet- I kind of feel this has come a full circle.. if you fill up your gas can and then throw in some stabil.. You're good for a year.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

SnowG said:


> If you go through that much gas in your snowthrower than you don't need to worry as much about stability. Those of us who only get occasional use need to be a lot more concerned, and it's worth it not to have fuel system problems, IMHO


All Good points above!
That is why every one has to assess their situation. If you use 1 gallon or less a year it may be worth it depending on other options in your area. Some folks don't have other practical options for E0 gas. When it comes to 2 cycle OPE there is more to consider.
If you use your machine almost every week using E10 gas with some kind of stabilizer should not be an issue. At the End of season drain the gas completely or use E10 for that last fill up and you should be safe!
Again, what makes sense for one may not for another.:wink:


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## EngineerEli (Oct 11, 2016)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> All Good points above!
> That is why every one has to assess their situation. If you use 1 gallon or less a year it may be worth it depending on other options in your area. Some folks don't have other practical options for E0 gas. When it comes to 2 cycle OPE there is more to consider.
> If you use your machine almost every week using E10 gas with some kind of stabilizer should not be an issue. At the End of season drain the gas completely or use E10 for that last fill up and you should be safe!
> Again, what makes sense for one may not for another.:wink:


I know this post was a few days ago, but I just wanted to keep people from getting confused. I think you may have meant to type, "At the End of season drain the gas completely or use *E0* for that last fill up and you should be safe!"

If I'm wrong let me know...


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## thool (Jul 25, 2016)

Personally, I get a fresh 5 gallon gas can of 93 octane E0 and immediately put stabilizer and a splash of gas dryer in it. The 5 gallons is usually enough to get me through the winter, and whatever is left over come spring gets captured in the jug and goes into a vehicle. I like to run the engine dry and spray the carb and clean the bowl. Going on 20 years with this practice (snow blower is from 1977) and it runs perfect. Tecumseh HM80 sno-king for the record.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

GoBlowSnow said:


> that's a valid point. Yet- I kind of feel this has come a full circle.. if you fill up your gas can and then throw in some stabil.. You're good for a year.


I would not trust *any* gas for a year, not even ethanol-free gas, and certainty not gas with ethanol in it, regardless of any stabilizer product used..that's just far too long.
I get my gas one gallon at a time, summer and winter.
In the summer, I probably use a gallon every 2 or 3 weeks for mowing.
In the winter, I probably burn 2 to 4 gallons for the whole winter, over the course of 5 months, depending on the winter.
either way, I buy a gallon of gas on average probably about once a month..which isnt a big deal, and that way im always assured its rather fresh.
I have an ethanol-free gas station not too far away, so I use that, plus seafoam every time.

Scot


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## thool (Jul 25, 2016)

sscotsman said:


> I would not trust *any* gas for a year, not even ethanol-free gas, and certainty not gas with ethanol in it, regardless of any stabilizer product used..that's just far too long.
> I get my gas one gallon at a time, summer and winter.
> In the summer, I probably use a gallon every 2 or 3 weeks for mowing.
> In the winter, I probably burn 2 to 4 gallons for the whole winter, over the course of 5 months, depending on the winter.
> ...


How do you use the seafoam? Is it in place or in addition to a preservative such as sta-bil? How much?

I seafoamed a car by pouring some into a vacuum line. Curious of how it would be used as a gas additive. Does it smoke?


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## Taurus04 (Dec 10, 2014)

I use 1 ounce per Gallon on all my OPE. Per the directions on the back of the can. Engines seem to run smoother. I never use stabilizer, but also run only High test. Leftover winter gas goes in the lawnmower, leftover summer gas goes in the blower. works just fine. Both start on first pull.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

During the summer months I buy 5 gallons of E10 (I don't have a choice in my very liberal state) every 3 weeks for my lawn tractor. I treat it with 3oz.-5oz. of Seafoam just to keep the carburetor clean, not to keep the gas from going bad. This year I think I am going to change how I store it for the winter. I'm going to buy Trufuel, pour it in my tank with a bit of Seafoam, and run it dry. Usually, I do the same procedure with E10, but add much more Seafoam than recommended. It has always worked in the past, but for just $6.00 for a can of Trufuel, I believe it is well worth the change.

Just this past weekend, I needed to buy some gas for my 2 cycle leaf blower and weed whacker. Knowing this fuel will need to be stored all winter and into the summer next year, I actually removed the Ethanol myself. I simply added about 5oz of water to 2 gallons for 89 octane E10. I then shook it like crazy and removed about 25oz. - 30oz. of Ethanol and water. This probably didn't remove all of the Ethanol, but it probably got 90%. Finally, after this was all done, I added an ounce of Sta-bil and 2oz of Seafoam. I'm confident that this fuel will last into next summer and not cause any problems.

This winter I will treat the fuel for my snow blower similarly to how I treat the gas from my lawn tractor. I will buy 5 gallons of E10 and treat it with 5oz. of Seafoam and 1oz. of Sta-bil. This will keep the carburetor clean and the gas from going bad. Come spring, I will store my snowblower by running Trufuel through the lines and carburetor with about an ounce of Seafoam too. This should help keep the carburetor clean and ensure a great start next winter.

So, the moral of the story is, I think how often the equipment gets run and how long the gas will need to be stored are both important factors when thinking about how to treat the gas. The longer the storage, especially, means the less Ethanol the better.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

thool said:


> How do you use the seafoam? Is it in place or in addition to a preservative such as sta-bil? How much?
> 
> I seafoamed a car by pouring some into a vacuum line. Curious of how it would be used as a gas additive. Does it smoke?


As Taurus said: "1 ounce per Gallon , i use it as recommended on the can" 
thats how I use it too..
I use no other gas additive, only Seafoam, I use it on ethanol-free gas.
It doesn't smoke.
I have been using ever since:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/ariens/Page11.html#question4

that sold me on it. One bottle of Seafoam lasts me several years, probably 2 or 3 years.
I use it for the snowblower and the lawn mowers. (I have a push Craftsman mower, and the 1964 Wheel Horse garden tractor with a mowing deck, and its original Kohler engine.)

Scot


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## thool (Jul 25, 2016)

Good to know about the seafoam in the fuel. I watched a few videos of some guy actually scoping his lawnmower cylinder before and after a seafoam treatment through the carb intake. It did have some effect on reducing carbon, but it wasn't dramatic. I suspect having it in the fuel will reduce the rate of carbon being deposited.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Can we discuss the "Octane" value for a moment? 
For these low compression engines, octane levels can be too high and you have potential unburned fuel and can create carbon build up. Just saying 87 could actually be better for your equipment than 93. Feel free to discuss.


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

TruFuel isn't really gas. It's some other chemical formula that's more stable, burns clean and has similar octane ratings. 

I wouldn't use gasoline additives in it.


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

dbert said:


> Can we discuss the "Octane" value for a moment?
> For these low compression engines, octane levels can be too high and you have potential unburned fuel and can create carbon build up. Just saying 87 could actually be better for your equipment than 93. Feel free to discuss.


Good question. I searched Google for: using higher octane fuel than recommended carbon

Then I searched within a few pages (from web sites likely to be vetted by authoritative experts; avoiding discussion boards) that came up for the word "carbon" and could not find any statements that using higher octane fuels would cause damage or carbon build up. However, my search was not very deep or exhaustive and I'd be interested in any info on this if someone can reference it. 

Generally the statements fall into two categories: 1) It's a waste of money, 2) older engines that (already) have carbon deposits may actually need it to run properly.


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## Taurus04 (Dec 10, 2014)

I have used Seafoam, Marvel Mystery Oil, Berrymans B12 Chemtool and even 2 stroke boat oil TCW3 rated in my gas for all OPE and my car for over four years. All the engines seem to run smoother and none have carbon on the plugs. I burn regular gas in my car because that is what it is designed for, but High test in OPE because it sits and I have seen what ethanol can do to a carb. Maybe it is all a placebo, but it does not cost much for that "good" feeling. I use the gas (OPE) until I run out. Everything starts on 1 or 2 pulls and it keeps me happy. I guess it is pretty much an individual choice. I have converted a few to try this, but others think I am crazy.

I am sure there are many owners who do nothing to maintain their blowers (not on this forum LOL), even to change the oil. Keeps the repair shops in business. Anything is better than nothing.

My 2 cents.


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## jay smith (Oct 20, 2016)

i had a heck of a time with the fuel in my mowers.
after some reading this works for me.
fuel cans that seal properly and are clean inside
i use regular gas and all it says is "may contain ethanol" i add marine fuel stabilizer. i leave the fuel in the tanks over the off season without a problem.

for 2 stroke i use 89 octane good mix and the same stabilizer. so far so good.

apparently there are different types of stabilizer. the one just keeps the gas from turning to varnish, the marine one says it bonds the fuel and water molecules so they can burn. my understanding is the ethanol attracts water faster.

hope it helps


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

Jay -
My post earlier in this thread that showed phase-separated fuel was after about 60 days. I had used Stabil360 Marine Fuel Stabilizer at time of purchase at the pump. According to Popular Sailor/Powerboat Reports this is one of the better fuel stabilizer formulas. The fuel was E10 bought from an Exxon station. The plastic fuel tank was clean and sealed, vent cap closed, but sat out in the weather in an open boat through temperature swings, rain, sun, etc. 

Here's the link http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1036209-post3.html


*Caveat Emptor*


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## jay smith (Oct 20, 2016)

I stand corrected SnowG thats a good post.
im not sure how my fuel situation is working for me.
its 87 octane from chevron.

next day off i may add some mower fuel to a jar.
i no kidding started my snow blower with last years fuel the other day.


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

jay smith said:


> I stand corrected SnowG thats a good post.
> im not sure how my fuel situation is working for me.
> its 87 octane from chevron.
> 
> ...


I don't know -- maybe I bought crappy gas to begin with. If using E10 for small engines I always treat it with stabilizer when I buy, and make sure whatever I have on hand is less than about 60 days old. If I don't use it in that period I transfer it into my car's tank and buy new fuel to store in a can.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

dBert, I know this has been discussed before on here. Maybe a few years ago. 

You are right about higher octane gas may not be burning 100% and may cause carbon build up. Higher octane fuels actually burn slower and hotter. It can actually still be burning on the exhaust stroke and it can burn up the valve or even the muffler.

A few years back i experimented with 100 octane AV fuel in my snow blower. I bought it on an impulse when the airport was out of the 91 octane E0 that I normally use. The engine had poor power and the muffler turned cherry red. This may be an extreme case but it illustrates the trend in going to higher than designed octane fuels. I have also read that some gas refiners cut corners or are not very precise in making their gas. You may actually be getting something a bit higher or lower than stated on the pump. Also, I worked at a gas station when I was a teenager and I observed a couple of times when the truck put the wrong gas in the wrong tank. They ended up selling high test as regular. With all that said I have been using the 91 octane E0 gas for a few years and it works great. I do this only for the E0 benefit. I see no downside in performance or other problems. I think there can be good reasons and little downside (other than cost) to go a little bit higher in octane but not too high. I am at sea level. The folks at higher elevations may have different experiences.

If you have engine knocking due to carbon deposits you have to use a higher octane (or remove the carbon). 

As I said earlier regarding 2 cycle engines, 89 Octane fuel is usually spec'ed and going to as high as 94 may be fine and even ideal. Echo and Husqvarna market their own version of 2 cycle True Fuel and the Octane levels are 93 and 95 respectively. For reference:
Best Built Longest Lasting Gas Powered Outdoor Power Equipment | ECHO USA
https://www.amazon.com/Husqvarna-585572601-Pre-Mixed-2-Stroke-Engines/dp/B00F0WZYCC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477061999&sr=8-1&keywords=husqvarna+premix+fuel


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## Rickster55 (Dec 11, 2017)

I found this video quite interesting. You might as well.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Rickster55 said:


> I found this video quite interesting. You might as well.


while he talks about premium and all the crap in regular fuel that is not in the expensive premixed stuff he does not mention that not all premium is ethanol free. i know shell seems to be the only ones still selling ethanol free fuel around here and the only ones i trust when i need fuel for my carbed engines. never had an issue as long as i run it. my trimmer would be a good example. picked it up from the curb and it was always a bit tricky to start/keep going until warm but with ethanol free fuel starting/warm up never changed and i ran it for 2-3 years like that until i decided to change the metering diaphragm about 2-3years ago. has run perfect since and there is a couple times a year where i use it a lot(4+hours straight). about the only issue with it is the fuel tank grommet is starting to crack. once i replace that i believe it will last me a pretty long time or until i find my next 4 stroke trimmer to the curb or for super cheap machine to replace this one.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

crazzywolfie said:


> while he talks about premium and all the crap in regular fuel that is not in the expensive premixed stuff he does not mention that not all premium is ethanol free.


That is the case here as well. I did buy a couple of five-gallon cans of premium fuel and then tested it for alcohol - it did have 10% ethanol in it.:sad2:

I have not checked any other brands, we normally buy generic at the grocery store while we're there. So I pay for the Stihl canned stuff since I usually only burn about a quart of it over a summer anyway in the hedge trimmer.


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## Rickster55 (Dec 11, 2017)

Here in Central NY, we have access to ethanol-free gas. I agree with WVguy that if you are using limited amounts of fuel in a specific time frame, then canned fuel might be the way to go. On the other hand, if you are using gallons, say over the summer, then canned fuel may not be practical.


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