# LED Lights Keep Blowing.. help!



## MurBob (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi all,
This is my first post, hopefully I can get my problem solved with your help.

I have a Simplicity 1738 Snow Blower with a Briggs and Straton 21M414 engine. 

I bought a couple of 12 volt LED flood lights on ebay that are similar to these:
Wall Flood Light 10W 12V AC DC Warm White LED Replace Waterproof Garden Outdoor | eBay

They ran fine the first time I used the machine, when I went back to use it a second time, both lights failed to work.. One of them had a small dim flicker for while but the other was totally dark. 

Due to the fact that I illuminate my workshop with LED lights that I build myself, I had a dozen extra 12 watt chips laying around and it just so happened they were the exact same thing as what's inside that ebay flood light. 

So, I took the light apart and installed the new chips.. just to add an extra layer of protection, I also installed a resistor to throttle the power back to about 8 watts which is 80% of what they are rated for. (I never run my LED's I build to their max as it shortens the life). 

So, I installed the lights back on the snowblower and they barely worked for an hour and both lights are burned out again.

PS. The snow blower is supposed to be a 12 volt system and we don't have any flicker in the LED's as some say they have so ours are wired direct without any rectifier.

Any ideas? I wouldn't think vibration would do it would it?


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

admittedly dont know much bout " lectricity". but have you looked at this sticky?
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...rading-your-snowblower-lights-led-lights.html


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Often dirty-DC produced by small engines does those LEDs in. (_when testing the stator output with your multimeter, AC should be zero volts_). 

are you able to determine whether or not the stator has a single-diode for rectification? If so, ditch that and upgrade to a full-wave / bridge rectifier with a big smoothing cap. That link provided by nwcove has more details than you'll ever need.

Also, are you using a switch? Switches for these circuits are really tricky due to the excessive no-load voltage...when you flip that switch you quickly overdrive the component to failure if you don't have a voltage regulator.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

MurBob said:


> Hi all,
> This is my first post, hopefully I can get my problem solved with your help.
> 
> I have a Simplicity 1738 Snow Blower with a Briggs and Straton 21M414 engine.
> ...


Need a bit more info on the engine in your machine. There are several more numbers, and possibly a final pair with a letter and number. 

Briggs has pile of different alternator options for engines. I looked at ereplacementparts.com and the first page shows about 6 different possibilities for yours. 

Do you happen have an engine manual/parts list for your specific engine? If so, it should list the alternator part number which you can compare with the attached link, and then go from there. 

If you do not have an engine parts list, you can match up the power plug plug out of your engine to the correct picture in the chart, then you will know if you have AC, or DC, ( some of the DC units are an AC coil with a diode built in at the plug which gives you half wave rectified DC, which is kind of crappy power, but works for halogen bulbs. The chart also gives you current capacity. The plugs and wires are all colour coded, and different styles so it should not be too hard, unless they have added stuff since this chart was published.

https://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/html/engine-specs/briggs/alternator/alternator_chart.pdf


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

I have tried those, static mounted in the Lair (indoors, 12v sun powered system) and mine blew too, 3 of 5 within weeks. Same failure mode, junk. No chance on an outdoor mobile application imo.

Blown:



More heavy duty ftw. Amazon.com: TMS LED-XT-18W30D-K 18W 1260LM CREE Spot Led Work Light Bar Black for off-Road SUV Boat 4x4 Jeep, 2 Piece: Automotive

On the Yanmar now, not much run time but definitely better quality and more suitable for outdoor/mobile use.


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

cheap junk, no doubt


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

This is a bit OT but I'm curious: has anyone else ever measured the current draw of their LED lights?

I bought some of these for my snowblowers: 



 They're claimed to have 3x 2W LEDs and if I recall my first-grade math that should be 6 watts.

When I power them from a 12V regulated supply, they draw about 325 milliamps or 0.325 amp. 12 volts times 0.325 amps is 3.9 watts... a far cry from 6!


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

Probably rated at operating battery voltage which is closer to 14.3 Volts. Rating of 2Watts is also maximum output. They wouldn't last long if you powered them at maximum output. 

Now for the 12 volt LEDs, you *cannot* install these on an unregulated 12 Volt. They do not like spikes or reverse voltage. Like mentioned before use an LED fixture with ratings like 9-30 VDC-AC. This means the fixture has a built-in regulator converter and will give you a very steady lumen output without flicker.

For example:


4 Inch 18W Cree LED Work Light Bar Lamp for Car Truck Off Road

Specification:

Operating Voltage: 10-30V DC
Waterproof rate: IP 67
Beam Pattern: Flood beam,Spot beam
Color Temperature: 6000K (pure white)
Material: Diecast aluminum housing
Lens material: PMMA lens
Mounting Bracket: Stainless Steel
Theoretical Lumens Output: 1400 LM
LED Power: 18W (6pcs*3w CREE high intensity LEDs )
( The Lumens and Power are theoretical values, if use equipment to measure, maybe less than this values. )


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

I installed this one in 2014 and it's been working great for the price.

4 Inch 18W Cree LED Work Light Bar Lamp for Car Truck Off Road Sale-Banggood.com Even cheaper on amazon.com I see.

Just make sure you select the proper one for your use, because these come in flood and spot.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:iagree: I have the same ones. Bought a 4 pack shipped for 34 bucks on Ebay.


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## MurBob (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi Folks,
Thanks for the help.. I figured out what it is and perhaps I can shed a bit of light on the failure problem for the fella above who posted a photo of the LED flood light.

Those ebay flood lights have a 10w SMD chip inside them.. They are rated for 12 volts and not a penny more. 

I bought two of them for the snowblower.. both burned out.. So I replaced both chips with my own that I also buy on Ebay. They look like an identical replacement. When I replaced them, the new ones burned within minutes also.
Here's the thing though.. .I light both of my work shops with the chips.. I have them mounted to aluminum tubing and run the power from a computer ATX power supply (12 volt rail) and I have resistors installed to limit the current to each of the chips. I have about 40 of them running and they've been lighting my shop for years now and no problems. (I did have one single chip burn but you have to accept there's going to be some kind of random failure rate). But the others are doing fine.

I measured the voltage on the snowblower and its straight DC.. no AC at all so there must be a full wave rectifier built in. The problem is the the voltage is up around 13.5 to 14.2 and that must be the problem.. the chips are very voltage sensitive and will burn fast at those voltages.

So, for the guy above who said he hooked them to his solar system and they didn't last long.. that's the problem.. solar chargers tend to bring batteries up to the 13 to 13.5 volt range before they cut off. 

So my next step is to buy a voltage regulator on ebay to get the voltage down to 12 volts, or maybe an adjustable regulator and I'll even drop it to 11 volts.. 

We'll see if that works. But I know its not the chips or anything to do with poor quality heatsink/housing..


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

I installed one of these in front of my 12 volt LEDs then it don't matter the voltage coming in. Works great. Voltage on my battery will fluctuate from 9 Volts to 14.5 and the output voltage remains a steady 12 volts. LEDs won't flicker or dim until battery goes under 4.3 volts, then everything shuts off until the sun hits the solar panel again.

5A XL4005 DC-DC Adjustable Step Down Module Power Supply Converter - US$2.55


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Coby7 said:


> ...Just make sure you select the proper one for your use, because these come in flood and spot.


Thanks for the info. I should know this, but I'm assuming flood is better for general snow blowing situations, is that true?


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

All depends on what you need or want. I added a spot to the front to fill the shadow caused by the flood located behind the shoot. Plus you rarely need to light the sides too much since your always going ahead when blowing snow. So different strokes for different folks I guess. There is no wrong one. I have a long straight driveway so a spot was better for me. If you are confined to just the front of the garage door then get floods.


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## MurBob (Jan 13, 2016)

Coby7 said:


> I installed one of these in front of my 12 volt LEDs then it don't matter the voltage coming in. Works great. Voltage on my battery will fluctuate from 9 Volts to 14.5 and the output voltage remains a steady 12 volts. LEDs won't flicker or dim until battery goes under 4.3 volts, then everything shuts off until the sun hits the solar panel again.
> 
> 5A XL4005 DC-DC Adjustable Step Down Module Power Supply Converter - US$2.55


I was going to buy one of those on ebay but decided to go with this instead:
DC DC Converter 8V 40V Step Down to 12V 3A 36W Voltage Regulator Power Supply | eBay

Saves me from having to make a waterproof box for the snowblower. Just bolt it on, hook up the wires, and done. My only concern, since I don't have it yet, is if it will truly regulate the voltage to 12 volts and hold it there. Since I have current limiting resistors in line, I don't think a flux of a half volt will make any difference.. just so long as it doesn't allow the power to float up to 13 or so.


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

It should be solid 12 Volts. Is there an adjustment to tweak it?


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

Just read the specs, looks like it was designed exactly for what yo need.


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## MurBob (Jan 13, 2016)

No adjustment to tweak it but I think it will probably work anyhow... It will be running 20 watts on a unit rated for 36 watts and in cold weather so it should work just fine.


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

Yup! Win-Win


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## BWC (Dec 16, 2015)

Coby7: Have you added a resistor to your blower when you installed your LED light or just the light. I burnt out a LED in two days, just wondering if it was a junk light or perhaps I need a resistor. Tks.


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