# STRIPPED spark plug hole Honda HSS928 (2014) from dealer :(



## KaRLiToS

Hi guys,

I haven't posted here for a while. But today was the day I was replacing the oil and spark plugs in my Honda lawn mower, my Honda pressure washer and also decided to replaced the one my my beloved Honda HSS 928 snowblower.

It was a the first time I was replacing it and it was a nightmare to unscrew it. At first I was: "It must be because the blower is new and the threads are new" It was incredible the amount of force I had to put on the spark plug to remove it. At this time I wasn't really worried until I tried to screw the new one by hand, it was impossible, with the same ratchet I used for the mower and pressure washer and I couldn't even screw it. At this point I was freaking out.

The first year I used the blower for around 40 hours and last year I only used it 3 times for like 2 hours each sessions.










At this point I realized why I had so much trouble starting it. Let me show you some threads I created the past 2 years about this

15 Pull to start New Honda HSS928TC 2015 second season
New Honda HSS928-TC didn't start on the first pull after a month of use.

And also this thread where I noticed that the dealer didn't put enough oil in the engine

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...-level-first-use-dealer-didnt-put-enough.html

In the Honda HSS928 Pre-Delivery manual (The manual that the dealers use to build the machine when they receive it, it is clearly indicated that *THEY* install the spark plug.
*BUT THEY DECIDED TO DELIVER ME A BLOWER WITH A STRIPPED SPARK PLUG HOLE*










This is unnacceptable as a Honda Dealer. 

What should I do, and by the way, its them here *Pridex Sports* 


Can someone help me, I wish [email protected] could guide me.


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## Ariens hydro pro

Nicely go the the dealer where you bought it and tell them your story. Maybe they will replace the head for free.


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## YSHSfan

PM [email protected] and ask him for his advice on how to handle the situation and go from there.


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## orangputeh

good luck with the dealer after 2 years.

you can get a spark plug hole repair kit at the auto parts store to tap out the hole and put new thread insert in to match your spark plug.

you will not have to remove the head.


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## KaRLiToS

I never signed a PDI form. They never gave me any yellow sheet.


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## Yanmar Ronin

Sorry... but am I the only one to find it hard to believe that Honda ships and stores their blowers with the spark plug uninstalled and the cylinder open to atmosphere, only for the dealer to install the plug just prior to delivery?

Something's missing from this story. Sorry again but your linked posts more than hint that you are not too familiar with small engines... are you positive you didn't do something like turn the plug the wrong way initially? And if the plug seemed tight enough that you needed "incredible... amount of force" to turn it then why did you proceed anyhow?

And hold off on the bold red letters please. We get it.


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## UNDERTAKER

orangputeh said:


> good luck with the dealer after 2 years.
> 
> you can get a spark plug hole repair kit at the auto parts store to tap out the hole and put new thread insert in to match your spark plug.
> 
> you will not have to remove the head.


 There is only 1 flaw in that theory. you will get shaving down into piston and piston walls.


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## KaRLiToS

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Sorry... but am I the only one to find it hard to believe that Honda ships and stores their blowers with the spark plug uninstalled and the cylinder open to atmosphere, only for the dealer to install the plug just prior to delivery?
> 
> Something's missing from this story. Sorry again but your linked posts more than hint that you are not too familiar with small engines... are you positive you didn't do something like turn the* plug the wrong way initially?*



I hope you are kidding me? I just mentionned that I changed the oïl and the park plug in all of my other Honda power Equipment.
I also rebuilt the carbs in those machine since I bought them used.


But the snowblower was new.


And turning the wrong way? Seriously?




> And if the plug seemed tight enough that you needed "incredible... amount of force" to turn it then why did you proceed anyhow?
> 
> And hold off on the bold red letters please. We get it



I really like how instead of helping me find some solution...you blame me.


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## YSHSfan

I do NOT think that he is trying to blame you but instead he is saying (and I agree with it) that is never heard that the spark plug would be missing upon arrival to a dealer or that it would have to be changed on a brand new Honda engine before delivery. 
If the dealer did replace the spark plug, the question would be "_Why they did it....???_"
I insist in the fact that you should PM [email protected], ask him for his advice on how to handle the situation and go from there..... If the Dealer caused the damage, I'm confident that you'll be able to get it resolved.


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## UNDERTAKER

KaRLiToS said:


> I never signed a PDI form. They never gave me any yellow sheet.


*What in the name of ZEUS is a PDI Form anyway???????*


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## KaRLiToS

hsblowersfan said:


> I do NOT think that he is trying to blame you but instead he is saying (and I agree with it) that is never heard that the spark plug would be missing upon arrival to a dealer or that it would have to be changed on a brand new Honda engine before delivery.
> If the dealer did replace the spark plug, the question would be "_Why they did it....???_"
> I insist in the fact that you should PM [email protected], ask him for his advice on how to handle the situation and go from there..... If the Dealer caused the damage, I'm confident that you'll be able to get it resolved.



I explain it in the OP, they receive the crate and they build the snowblower at the dealer. They install the spark plug at the dealer.



POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *What in the name of ZEUS is a PDI Form anyway???????*



They never made me sign that and never had a yellow copy.


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## KaRLiToS

Oh and by the way, I just learned that the dealer is closed.


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## UNDERTAKER

*Well now that explains everything.:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:*


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## [email protected]

_*Facts:*_
• All new Honda power equipment is assembled and shipped with the spark plug installed and properly tightened to engineering spec. At the factory, every engine is briefly run and engine speed checked and adjusted as needed. Fuel is drained out, and the spark plug CAP is disconnected. 

• Officially, dealers are expected to do a pre-delivery inspection on all equipment before released to the customer. In reality, most new equipment requires very little inspection...for new-model HSS machines, they are fully assembled, and generally just get fuel and oil, and probably a test run. Late model Canadian-spec HSS machines do require some assembly, but do have the spark plug installed at the factory. A more diligent dealer will go over a new unit to check for any flaws, check all controls, verify operation, etc. However, I've never heard of one having to touch the spark plug at all, except to snap on the cap/wire. 

Of course, it is possible the spark plug was improperly fitted at the factory, and such a defect in manufacturing would be 100% covered by warranty (36 months from date of purchase). It is generally up to the dealer, and in some cases, a Honda Service Manager to determine if the problem is a genuine defect, or if it was caused by other factors. 

*Step 1* would be to discuss with the selling dealer, express your concerns, and probably arrange to have the unit inspected and evaluated by the dealer's service shop. They would then typically determine the problem as 'factory defect' or not, and potentially discuss with Honda's tech services department as needed. 

If a customer is not satisfied with the dealer's decision or recommend solution, I'd urge them to contact Honda's Customer Relations department and discuss; that's what they are there for, after all. Have the full serial number, name of dealer, etc. when you call for fastest service.

FYI, I read the original selling dealer is 'closed?" Are they out of business? If that's the case, any other Honda dealer can still provide warranty service work, even if they did not sell you the machine. If the dealer is indeed closed down for good, I'd suggest you contact Honda's Customer Relations first:

Honda Customer Relations
180 Honda Blvd.
Markham, ON
L6C 0H9

Toll Free: 1-888-9-HONDA-9 (1-888-946-6329)
Hours: 8:00 am to 7:30 pm Mon to Fri (EST)

FYI, I don't work for Honda Canada, but I understand they have a similar warranty and service process like that used by my employer, American Honda.


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## classiccat

That stinks Karlitos! 

I've had to helicoil 2 cylinder heads (30 yo machines) so I can empathize with that cold chill you get when the threads come-out with the plug. 

Did anyone oil/fog the cylinder at the end of last season?


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## orangputeh

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> There is only 1 flaw in that theory. you will get shaving down into piston and piston walls.


I never have had to do this before but you bring up an excellent point. There are you-tube videos on this procedure. Maybe they address this .

BTW. How hard would it be to take off the head? a couple minutes?


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## KaRLiToS

[email protected] said:


> _*SNIP*_


Thank you for the info Robert. Do you know if I had to sign and receive a PDI check list? (The yellow copy)


It was always painful to deal with this dealer. Everyone in our region knows this guy as a scam. No Wonder why he is closed now.


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## DriverRider

When removing spark plugs always blow compressed air around the plug to get rid of any debris. After initially breaking plug loose it can sometimes take a good deal of force to turn. If that does happen spray down towards the plug threads liberally with your favorite weasel pi$$ and work plug back and forth freeing it up.

On installation a small dab of anti-seize on plug threads works wonders for the next removal.


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## DriverRider

PDI is pre-delivery inspection which is done by a Dealer.


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## [email protected]

KaRLiToS said:


> Thank you for the info Robert. Do you know if I had to sign and receive a PDI check list? (The yellow copy)


Not sure, sorry. I do not know what Honda Canada's policy is regarding customer sign-off on the PDI checklist.

I'd urge you to contact Honda Canada Customer Relations to discuss.


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## YSHSfan

DriverRider said:


> When removing spark plugs always blow compressed air around the plug to get rid of any debris. After initially breaking plug loose it can sometimes take a good deal of force to turn. If that does happen spray down towards the plug threads liberally with your favorite weasel pi$$ and work plug back and forth freeing it up.
> 
> On installation a small dab of anti-seize on plug threads works wonders for the next removal.


+ 1 with this.
As an auto mechanic, I've run into a few situations with seized spark plugs (but by no means on a few years old car, cars with over 50K miles and or older than 8 years).
If the spark plug is too tight, very first thing that gets done is to blow air to get all the debris out of the spark plug area, then penetrating spray let it sit and try, spray let it sit and try until it "breaks" free, then more spray and back and forth movements until it comes out. 99% of the time you can save the threads on the cylinder head. Patience is the key on this procedure. :roll3yes:


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## jrom

KaRLiToS said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I haven't posted here for a while...


Please let us know how this turns out. It's quite useful information and I'm sure we all hope you get a good deal on the outcome.


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## jrom

To both DriverRider and hsblowersfan: This is great information to pass along to folks.

My neighbor bull-dozed his way through a "too tight" plug removal on his Husqvarna blower, called me when he couldn't get it back in. I slowly reseated a new plug in by hand, back and forth a quarter turn at a time and used a little bit of anti-seize. 

I'm not touching it after that. I'll let him know about air and penetrating spray for next time.

Thanks.


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## Yanmar Ronin

KaRLiToS said:


> I hope you are kidding me?... And turning the wrong way? Seriously?
> 
> I really like how instead of helping me find some solution...you blame me.


Hey... everyone makes mistakes, just asking to-the-point questions based on what I could glean from your previous posts. Didn't mean to offend. 

Here's a neat video of some Honda mowers and blowers going together at the factory, showing engine and chassis production. HD ftw.


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## Toro-8-2-4

i skimmed the post fast so i apologies if I am being repetitive.

A spark plug helicoil kit sounds like the most practical solution. Not hard to do if you have any experience using a tap. The inserts are made from stainless steel and it will be stronger than the aluminum head.
Spark plugs don't need to be that tight. When installing a new one you need to seat the steel seal/washer and that take a bit more of torque but still not like a tightening a 1/2 inch bolt..

Check out You tube as suggested earlier and educate yourself on how to do it. You can do it. Or pay a small engine guy in your area to do it for you. Still not that big of an expense.
You will get some chips in to the cylinder. Hard to avoid, unless you want to remove the head and do it on a bench. That is ok too if you can easily remove the head.

When I have done it I use white lith grease on the tap and take it out frequently to blow off all of the chips. This will reduce the chips that fall into the cylinder. In theory what remains in there will get blown out the exhaust.

Not a snow blower but I had a new Subaru which I Took to the dealer for its first tune up. The next time I did the tune up myslef and realized the moron mechanic cross threaded one of the spark plugs in the aluminum head. That was my first experience doing this back in 1980 something. It happens. Sometimes it is not worth going back to the perpetrators to make right. Just fix it, learn and move on.


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## KaRLiToS

The area around the socket was super clean after the clean-up I did before storing it. And yes I used some oil on all the spark plugs I installed yesterday. I used brand new oil from the bottle I had for my mower and pressure washer. 

Believe me guys, I work for a power company as an underground electrician since 12 years. I know all the precaution to take not to cross thread something. This spark plug was installed cross threaded...always had issue starting it.

It was a pain to unscrew it from the begginning to the end.


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## KaRLiToS

[email protected] said:


> Not sure, sorry. I do not know what Honda Canada's policy is regarding customer sign-off on the PDI checklist.
> 
> I'd urge you to contact Honda Canada Customer Relations to discuss.


I called them yesterday and they told me I need to go at a dealer to make a diagnostic.

So now that the dealer near me is closed, I have to drive 20 miles to go to the next dealer... where do I find the truck and trailer to move my blower?

I'm really mad at Honda right now, and let's not talk about the 30cm of snow we had in Montréal yesterday that I had to shovel by myself instead of using my toy.

I'm in the big need to swear right now.

:banghead::banghead:


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## KaRLiToS

I took around 30 hours to find the best blower, I decided to go with Honda to be free of mind and I got a big *LOAD OF STUPID CRAP.*

Lets not talk about the kinked Gas Tank the blower had on delivery and the LOW level of oil. Stupid crappy dealer.

*A DAMM STRIPPED Cylinder...FROM HONDA.*


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## UNDERTAKER

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> i skimmed the post fast so i apologies if I am being repetitive.
> 
> A spark plug helicoil kit sounds like the most practical solution. Not hard to do if you have any experience using a tap. The inserts are made from stainless steel and it will be stronger than the aluminum head.
> Spark plugs don't need to be that tight. When installing a new one you need to seat the steel seal/washer and that take a bit more of torque but still not like a tightening a 1/2 inch bolt..
> 
> Check out You tube as suggested earlier and educate yourself on how to do it. You can do it. Or pay a small engine guy in your area to do it for you. Still not that big of an expense.
> You will get some chips in to the cylinder. Hard to avoid, unless you want to remove the head and do it on a bench. That is ok too if you can easily remove the head.
> 
> When I have done it I use white lith grease on the tap and take it out frequently to blow off all of the chips. This will reduce the chips that fall into the cylinder. In theory what remains in there will get blown out the exhaust.
> 
> Not a snow blower but I had a new Subaru which I Took to the dealer for its first tune up. The next time I did the tune up myslef and realized the moron mechanic cross threaded one of the spark plugs in the aluminum head. That was my first experience doing this back in 1980 something. It happens. Sometimes it is not worth going back to the perpetrators to make right. Just fix it, learn and move on.


* Not all of that will get blown out. at least 5 out of 10 times some will get lodged inbetween the cylinder and cylinder wall. *


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## mrfixit

KaRLiToS 

I agree this is a frustrating situation.
Just get it fixed and move on.

All the goods we buy are mass produced, assembly line assembled so mistakes happen.
There are consumers with vehicles that cost thousands that got a lemon and can take up to a year and half to resolve. 

Just sayin.

Not looking for sympathy but it really put things into perspective.

After the wife's brain tumor in 2012 and 3 years of **** and the chance of it coming back at any time, this is a walk in the park.


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## bad69cat

If you decide to go the thread a new hole method - you need to use grease in the thread cutter to catch/hold the shavings. I have done that on truck engines that had stripped spark plug holes without trouble. You just have to go slow and be cautious. Hopefully you will be able to work it out with the dealer - but if not, I would at least try to re-thread it.


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## YSHSfan

KaRLiToS said:


> I took around 30 hours to find the best blower, I decided to go with Honda to be free of mind and I got a big *LOAD OF STUPID CRAP.*
> 
> Lets not talk about the kinked Gas Tank the blower had on delivery and the LOW level of oil. Stupid crappy dealer.
> 
> *A DAMM STRIPPED Cylinder...FROM HONDA.*


Just follow [email protected]ondas advice and don't over-stress about it, Honda may likely cover the needed repairs probably replacing the cylinder head or the engine on it. 
Wish you the best luck with the process.....


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## Toro-8-2-4

mrfixit said:


> KaRLiToS
> 
> I agree this is a frustrating situation.
> Just get it fixed and move on.
> 
> All the goods we buy are mass produced, assembly line assembled so mistakes happen.
> There are consumers with vehicles that cost thousands that got a lemon and can take up to a year and half to resolve.
> 
> Just sayin.
> 
> Not looking for sympathy but it really put things into perspective.
> 
> After the wife's brain tumor in 2012 and 3 years of **** and the chance of it coming back at any time, this is a walk in the park.


Best perspective so far! It is definitely a fixable issue.


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## UNDERTAKER

*If Honda does not cover this problem. I would just get a new head for it myself and not worry about this drilling and tapping stuff.*


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## scrappy

If it were mine, I would install thread repair kit like this one. I've used this plenty of times on car engines. 
You would be done in the time it takes to load the machine in the back of a pickup truck.
http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ead-repair-system/141511_0_0/?cmpid=PS:3:1:90


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## Toro-8-2-4

scrappy said:


> If it were mine, I would install thread repair kit like this one. I've used this plenty of times on car engines.
> You would be done in the time it takes to load the machine in the back of a pickup truck.
> http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ead-repair-system/141511_0_0/?cmpid=PS:3:1:90


Maybe not quite that fast if this is your first time doing it.  But it should not take any more than an hour.
Have a good holiday season and don't sweat the small stuff.


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## YSHSfan

scrappy said:


> If it were mine, I would install thread repair kit like this one. I've used this plenty of times on car engines.
> You would be done in the time it takes to load the machine in the back of a pickup truck.
> http://www.autozone.com/test-scan-a...ead-repair-system/141511_0_0/?cmpid=PS:3:1:90


As an auto mechanic I have installed a few of those inserts by customer request, I've also had to replace a few that were done in the past elsewhere due to the fact that they came out when the spark plug was removed.
If it was my blower and after dealing with Honda they determined that they would not cover the repair (which I think they will cover it), I would remove the head and either replace it with a new one or depending on the cost, take it to a machine shop where they can install a thread repair insert that gets "riveted" on both ends so that it will never come loose and it will also be as straight as it can be for proper spark plug seating (we've gone that route on a few vintage cars that had stripped spark plug threads).
I would NOT want a single shaving into the cylinder of a nearly new engine (but this is just me, others may think differently).


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## scrappy

hsblowersfan said:


> As an auto mechanic I have installed a few of those inserts by customer request, I've also had to replace a few that were done in the past elsewhere due to the fact that they came out when the spark plug was removed.
> If it was my blower and after dealing with Honda they determined that they would not cover the repair (which I think they will cover it), I would remove the head and either replace it with a new one or depending on the cost, take it to a machine shop where they can install a thread repair insert that gets "riveted" on both ends so that it will never come loose and it will also be as straight as it can be for proper spark plug seating (we've gone that route on a few vintage cars that had stripped spark plug threads).
> I would NOT want a single shaving into the cylinder of a nearly new engine (but this is just me, others may think differently).


The ones I did lived a long healthy over 100,000 miles. The swage tool crimps the insert, along with a drop of red locktite have never had one back out. 
As for chips I agree, but if the tap is packed with grease and the cylinder blown out it's not a worry. Besides its aluminum, not likely to score the steel cylinder wall or rings.
Just offering my real world experience.


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## Toro-8-2-4

The threaded insert Kit that I have purchased at an auto parts store came with a Loctite type of thread locker. It probably was Loctite red but it had another name on it.
If the kit does not come with thread locker I would buy a high temp thread locker and use that.

Sure, a new head is best but if Honda does not cover it I would have no qualms with installing a threaded insert. I am in agreement with Scrappy.


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## JayzAuto1

Hey Guys, Lots of great ideas here......I ESP agree, that if you have your health, you truly have everything. But I'd like to add some ideas here, having run into this many times over 35 years. Although I have spent a short time at a Honda dealer, I don't ever recall Spark Plug issues, not to say it doesn't happen in the mass production world. None the less, it's my job to fixem'. More expensive minds than mine deal with the design and warranty issues. First off, I would try a thread chaser, with cutting oil to see if the threads can't be cleaned up. I realize that chips in the cylinder are a concern, but being aluminum and just a few, probably won't cause damage. Cranking the engine over after the repair will usually blow out the chips that don't get caught in the cutting oil. Bringing up piston to TDC, Compression stroke, will minimize exposure. Second, for the faint of heart, filling the cylinder with shaving cream (while at TDC_Compression), will catch any errant chips and keep them at the top, where a shop vac will make quick cleanup. If chasing the threads removes too much material, I would use a Thread-Sert or Time-Cert, (I believe these are
Brand names, usually found in industrial supply companies), for a bullet-proof permanent repair. Last, I would replace the Cylinder Head if the other options failed. I also agree, that the total repair time, SHOULD be less than trailering it dealer and waiting for them to squeeze it in. I know it's disappointing, frustrating and shouldn't happen.....But in the grand scheme of things that Could go wrong, it's a fairly straight forward repair. GLuck with the results. Jay


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## KaRLiToS

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *If Honda does not cover this problem. I would just get a new head for it myself and not worry about this drilling and tapping stuff.*


Exactly, no way I'm making an heli coil on that crap, tends to unscrew when removing sparkplugs next maintenace. 

But with what'll show you, no way they won't cover it. Check the tip of terminal nut. 

None of those machines ever had ethanol in them, only Shell V power ethanol free with PERFECT concentration of stabilizator


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## KaRLiToS




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## Normex

Personally I never run with stabilizer during snow season, only for summer storage.
Looking at you spark plug tips, it seems something is amiss by either running your equipment idle for long period of time or used with a bit of choke after started.
But my opinion tends to go with too much stabilizer and really with the good gaz you use there is no need for stabilizer.

Just my opinion

Norm


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## KaRLiToS

I put the exact concentration of stabilizer for the quantity of gaz


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## Normex

KaRLiToS said:


> I put the exact concentration of stabilizer for the quantity of gaz



Yes and look at the black ends of your plugs which suggests the engines are running a bit on the rich side hence the additives or running idle for an extended time .......


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## KaRLiToS

All the 3 sparkplugs are in honda engines with the EXACT same gas from the same canister. And the lawnmower is WAY more used than any other tools I have...and is the one that run a lot on idle.


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## KaRLiToS

Tuesday i'm taking to to the dealer, no availability until then.

Anyone else has an opinion on the pictures of the sparkplugs?


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## Normex

Karlitos you don't read well do you, I mentioned putting stabilizer all the time except for long term storage may be the cause of your black plugs. Just put stabilizer at the end of the season and it will help when it is needed.
Your gaz is perfect to run well without adding stabilizer all the time.

Good Luck


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## YSHSfan

One thing to consider is the lower temperature and the conditions that the snowblower engine runs compared to the other engines. May have something to do with the darker color on the one spark plug as well as the slight "corrosion" build up at the base of the spark plug.


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## cranman

I put in stabilizer when I buy gas.....I never can remember when I've stabilized an engine and as long as you just pit an ounce to five gallons, you will never change the burning characteristics of the fuel. I rebuilt 20 snowblowers last year and 52 lawn tractors and they always have Stabil added.....when I have a new machine and I don't want to rebuild the carb unnecessarily I give a really strong dose of Seafoam in the tank....and if I do have to rebuild it....Seafoam. I have a lot of small engines on cranberry equipment that don't get used sometimes for three years or more. I start them on ether ( the benzine evaporates in old gas making it hard to start) mix in fresh fuel and away I go.


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## KaRLiToS

Hi guys, 


I'm back with more updates, not good ones. I went on December 22nd to bring my snowblower to an Honda dealer 40 minutes from here, cost me 45 for a trailer location. They took photos and sent all the info to Honda Cnada warranty department. Then the dealer told me I should expect a reply between 24 and 36 hours but because it was Christmas week, the answer would have been on the 27th. 

I just received the response today after 320 hours of wait instead of the 24-36 hours. And Honda doesn't want to honor my warranty, I was shocked.

Lke anyone here, unlike the dealer (who believes me),Honda Canada is blaming me and they said I have no evidence that it's Honda fault. My mistake was to remove the sparkplug. But I'm too honest and left it outside instead of trying to strip the cylinder head even more. I could've had tried to force it back in and say nothing but I didn't want to make anymore damage to my beloved snowblower.

I called Honda relation and they said I need to go into mediation and I have to wait another 4 days before receiving another reply. I am so frustrated right now especially when the dealer told me I should expect another month of wait from his experience so I ordered the parts myself (512$ CAD) and the dealer told me I could do the repairs myself and if the mediation is a success, I could always get a refund for the parts.

It's now 2017 and I could have used my snowblower up to 5-6 times by now. And now the parts will only be received next week.

I lost all confidence in HONDA.

Maybe [email protected] can help me even more? I wish there was a Canadian representative here


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## JD in NJ

Five hundred bucks to repair a stripped thread? Why don't you just helicoil the thing and be done with it?


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## UNDERTAKER

* That why I said in another thread, I won't go trading THE BROTHERS in on 1. so how much does a head cost in American benji's??????????????*


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## YSHSfan

For that cost I'd remove the Head and Have a Machine Shop install a true thread repair insert (100% straight to the original hole and riveted on both ends, so that it'll be there for good).


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## drmerdp

JD in NJ said:


> Five hundred bucks to repair a stripped thread? Why don't you just helicoil the thing and be done with it?


Agreed. helicoil with some red high temp rtv or green loctite.

I've used timeserts too. Nice when you have a clean shot at the insert. Uses a special punch to lock the insert permanently in place.


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## YSHSfan

Actually now that I think about it, there may be evidence that it was cross-threaded and the proof would be on the spark plug sealing ring as it would be unevenly crushed do the the angle the spark plug was installed at (just something to look for).


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## [email protected]

Honda's Customer Service group has the 'final say' for Honda in matters like this, and that's true for both American Honda and Honda Canada. While I have seen some cooperation for customers who have a USA machine that needed service when in Canada (and vice versa) that was not a question of is it under warranty or not (it was) but who (USA or Canada) would pay for it.


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## GoBlowSnow

Bummer.


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## nwcove

.....whats the price of a of a short block engine for that unit? or the price of a long block if they dont/wont sell short blocks ? $512 for a head and gasket is outrageous !!


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## jrom

nwcove said:


> .....whats the price of a of a short block engine for that unit? or the price of a long block if they dont/wont sell short blocks ? $512 for a head and gasket is outrageous !!


at boats.net, for a last generation US HS928 cylinder head: $46.12, head gasket: $1.80.

I just checked on a current GX390 head from hondapartsnation: $36.06. Geez quite a range.


----------



## YSHSfan

jrom said:


> at boats.net, for a last generation US HS928 cylinder head: $46.12, head gasket: $1.80.


This brings a good point....... OP, what parts are you getting....?


----------



## JayzAuto1

GEvening Gents, Is that *512.00 RUBLES?? Is that a complete Engine? That labor included? As others have asked, That seems a little steep...Are parts coming from Japan? USA? I would have a hard time justifying that cost for a cylinder head, even a new unit on a new machine. As others suggested, TimeSerts* are the most permanent repair, and stronger than the original threads. Even bringing the machine to a shop and having it done should be nowhere near that cost. It can be done with the cylinder head installed, as in no removal necessary. What did you order for parts? And was it from the same dealer the machine was purchased from? Or is the USA/Canadian exchange rate that different? Sounds excessive. GLuck, Jay


----------



## Boosted3g

I got some good prices on oem replacement warning labels and a decal around the receptacles from them for a Honda EB5000 generator I have. Shipping was a little slow but they were half the dealer and very obscure parts. The bright side is that Honda engines are so easy to repair and everything makes sense. I like them so much I'm debating swapping a gx390 i have laying around on a 2017 ariens.


----------



## pdesjr

As Jayz said.I use timeserts to repair heads in everything from small engines to car engines. Never had one come out.They have a special tool that expands them into the head.Install them with some red locktight.Permanent repair. Engine at tdc.Grease on the tools to hold the chips.Blow out the rest.Install insert.DONE


----------



## jrom

Boosted3g said:


> ...I'm debating swapping a gx390 i have laying around on a 2017 ariens.


I've always loved the idea of dropping a larger GX into an Ariens chassis. If Ariens offered a GX390 option, I would have bought it. 

I say go for it...and document if you can. Geno did a great write-up too.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Took decision,


HELI COIL


SCREW HONDA, my warranty is over anyway in 6 months. Just need to cancel the parts where I left a deposit of 250$ at the dealer. Worst experience in my life and I take weeks to study before purchasing something, whether it's a car, computer parts or hedge trimmers. Bought a lemon. It's funny how I praise the HSS928 and made 2 of my friends purchased it.


Sucks because I like their products, my lawnmower and pressure washer are incredible. The HSS928 too but it was always a pain to start it. But they bent me over and inserted something in my something....no thanks Honda.


*[email protected]*: Please Help me and bring back faith into me. Guys, you have to believe me that I did not do that thing to my blower, I'm not stupid, I stripped one time a 120/240v underground connection when I started 10 years ago in the power company in Quebec where I still work and believe me they sure did tell me about it. Never again. NEVER HAPPENNED AGAIN....especially NOT on my beloved snowblower.

I'm sure you can do a small phone call. I'm fighting since 4 weeks with that case and I missed 4-5 snow storms and today my girlfriend was shovelling the heaviest snow we had in a long time. I don't deserve that after putting 3900$ CAD into that product.


----------



## jrom

If the final word from Honda is you are on your own, I'd get the helicoil option like you are doing and then find a low cost OEM head. 

As my pappy used to say "Chet Atkins Happens". (Client code for sheet Happens...coming from an old timer [my dad] who couldn't hear too well). That should propel us to find creative ways out of life's lovely jams.

Is there any way one of us state-side can buy a kit and send it to you so you save some hard earned dinero? Buy it and throw it over the border at some un-disclosed location?

There's got to be a way you can get your Honda back up to speed at a reasonable cost.


----------



## 43128

thought a company like honda was better then this- guess i was wrong. love there products but i guess they think there customers are idiots. like i said earlier, bash every honda social media page you can find, and the dealers yelp and google page. make sure to tell people about the way honda treated you. i love hondas products but i guess there ethics/morals need some work. cant imagine spending 4000 plus on a machine and then have them say f you no warranty for you


----------



## [email protected]

KaRLiToS said:


> *[email protected]*: Please Help me and bring back faith into me.
> I'm sure you can do a small phone call.


As heartbreaking as it is to read of the troubles you've had, my hands are tied. Not only does Customer Service (not me) have the Final Say, but I'm an American Honda associate, and have zero association with Honda Canada...they are totally separate companies. The name on the building is the same, but the decisions and policies are totally separated.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Ok thanks Robert ??

Can someone guide which helicoil I should buy?


----------



## JD in NJ

That's going to depend on the spark plug I suppose. The size of spark plug should lead you to the thread size you need.


----------



## BeerGhost

heres the specs for ngk bpr5es 


https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9468


----------



## BeerGhost

Show us a close up pic of the butchered plug hole. maby you can get away with just running a greased tap down it.


----------



## JD in NJ

There you go. It's 14x1.25 metric. So either tap it (which doesn't solve the problem of a plug going into metal that is arguably too soft) or put an insert of that size in.


----------



## dbert

Thread Size: 14mm
Thread Pitch: 1.25mm
Reach: 19mm (3/4")


----------



## YSHSfan

If doing a helicoil, I'd remove the head to prevent aluminum chips from going and staying inside the cylinder.
Here is one kit
Fix-A-Thred M14-1.25 Plug-Saver Kit - 1 each insert S, N, L 98141: Advance Auto Parts


----------



## micah68kj

KaRLiToS said:


> Ok thanks Robert ??
> 
> Can someone guide which helicoil I should buy?



I wouldn't even helicoil it. I'd try to chase the original threads with a good tap and some cutting oil first. What do you have to lose?
Del just posted the tap size you need. Go for it.


----------



## LouC

I might remove the head and try using the thread chaser...


----------



## 43128

if the threads truly are cracked a chaser is not going to fix anything


----------



## KaRLiToS

I will try to chase the original threads first. I haven't tried to put it back anyway. I was just able to screw it 2 or 3 threads by hand and that was it, didn't try to screw it more with a tool since it was clearly broken.

If the thread repair doesn't work, then I'm gonna change the whole cylinder head instead of trying the helicoil.

CYLINDER HEAD KIT FOR HONDA GX270 9HP ROCKERS PUSH RODS GASKET SPRINGS VALVES | eBay

I just can't believe the dealer tried to charge me 515 $ CAD only for the parts. At this point it is clear that the dealer never tried to help me but only tried to make money from me.


----------



## JD in NJ

:blink: Now that is SOME difference in price!


----------



## jrom

KaRLiToS said:


> ...If the thread repair doesn't work, then I'm gonna change the whole cylinder head instead of trying the helicoil...I just can't believe the dealer tried to charge me 515 $ CAD only for the parts...


FWIW, a number of us on the forum have used boats.net successfully. It looks like they ship to Canada. If you can get a part number, I'd email or give them a call.

I'd rather go OEM, especially if the price in anywhere near the $46 I looked up the other day.


----------



## RIT333

I still think that Honda should be footing the $50 bill. See if they'll go for that.


----------



## classiccat

don't forget your tube of HondaBond for the valve cover. Awesome stuff!


----------



## nwcove

classiccat said:


> don't forget your tube of HondaBond for the valve cover. Awesome stuff!


and its just $320 a tube ! ( kidding)


----------



## FearlessFront

You know sparkplugs will literally last forever. As long as you change your oil and dont over rev the engine a spark plug last decades. Especially on a snow blower engine, because your not dealing with, dust, dirt or grass. You'll know when it's time to change the plug because you won't be getting good spark or the engine will run poorly otherwise I don't mess with them.
Oil and fuel are the two most important things that will wear on a motor. Anyway you can re-thread the head, here's a link to the video on youtube on how to do it. You will probably need at least a new headgasket if you remove the head which is recommended. Although a new head can't be that much so you could always just buy a new head and gasket and just make sure you torque the head bolts down at the right force and in the correct pattern as well as your new plug.
Heres how to re-thread. I'd imagine you could get the tool at Harbor freight cheap probably about 10 bucks...


----------



## jtclays

I wonder what the potential cost to Honda "dealers" is here? Have they protected the company from a rouge cross threader, or lost about 20 word of mouth customers? For a $60 (retail) part on a Gulfstream priced machine, what a shame:smiley-confused009:


----------



## JnC

KaRLiToS said:


> I will try to chase the original threads first. I haven't tried to put it back anyway. I was just able to screw it 2 or 3 threads by hand and that was it, didn't try to screw it more with a tool since it was clearly broken.
> 
> If the thread repair doesn't work, then I'm gonna change the whole cylinder head instead of trying the helicoil.
> 
> CYLINDER HEAD KIT FOR HONDA GX270 9HP ROCKERS PUSH RODS GASKET SPRINGS VALVES | eBay
> 
> I just can't believe the dealer tried to charge me 515 $ CAD only for the parts. At this point it is clear that the dealer never tried to help me but only tried to make money from me.



I understand that the OEM head is only around $40 or so as well but I dont think that it comes with the valve guides pre installed in it. Those guides need to be pressed in and also the new guides need to be lapped for the old valves. I should know as I went through something similar a couple of years ago. 

The OE guides had too much play and the exhaust side had blowby, I took up the task of replacing the guides and valves with OE replacement parts, bad/costly idea as I had to hire a machine shop to take out the old guides and press fit the new ones. 

Whereas on the other hand you could buy the shown kit from ebay and swap out everything and it wouldnt take any more than 30~40 minutes to do it with the help of a few basic tools, just make sure you have a good torque wrench handy for the head bolts.

Another lingering thought would be how you feel about having a chinese replacement head on a almost brand new motor. There is nothing wrong with that, these ebay replacement kits have been used for as long as the GX motor has been around in the thousands.


----------



## jrom

JnC said:


> ...I dont think that it comes with the valve guides pre installed in it.... Those guides need to be pressed in and also the new guides need to be lapped for the old valves. I should know as I went through something similar a couple of years ago.


Well, there you go, complicating things with a reality check :facepalm_zpsdj194qh


----------



## KaRLiToS

FearlessFront said:


> You know sparkplugs will literally last forever. As long as you change your oil and dont over rev the engine a spark plug last decades. Especially on a snow blower engine, because your not dealing with, dust, dirt or grass. You'll know when it's time to change the plug because you won't be getting good spark or the engine will run poorly otherwise I don't mess with them.
> Oil and fuel are the two most important things that will wear on a motor. Anyway you can re-thread the head, here's a link to the video on youtube on how to do it. You will probably need at least a new headgasket if you remove the head which is recommended. Although a new head can't be that much so you could always just buy a new head and gasket and just make sure you torque the head bolts down at the right force and in the correct pattern as well as your new plug.
> Heres how to re-thread. I'd imagine you could get the tool at Harbor freight cheap probably about 10 bucks...


I agree with you, but it was so difficult to start the engine every time I was using the blower and have you seen the sparkplug?










I know how to re-thread, learned it at school in my electromechanical classes. Machining class was one of the most interesting one. But I haven't done it in a while so that is why I'm viewing many youtube videos and the one you linked is part of a bunch I checked


----------



## jbtvt

micah68kj said:


> I wouldn't even helicoil it. I'd try to chase the original threads with a good tap and some cutting oil first. What do you have to lose?
> Del just posted the tap size you need. Go for it.


This worked for me on a high compression Lexus engine without issue. No cutting oil needed for aluminum though, grease to catch shavings only.

Frustrating when things like this happen, but realistically, it's unreasonable to expect warranty in these situations unless the plug was removed by a mechanic. One risk of DIY. It'd be a nice bonus though.


----------



## FearlessFront

KaRLiToS said:


> I agree with you, but it was so difficult to start the engine every time I was using the blower and have you seen the sparkplug?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know how to re-thread, learned it at school in my electromechanical classes. Machining class was one of the most interesting one. But I haven't done it in a while so that is why I'm viewing many youtube videos and the one you linked is part of a bunch I checked


Yep that has a descent amount of sut and carbon build. Dont get me wrong changing the plug is always a good idea. Just from my own experience on my Snapper snowblower, with Tecumseh HMSK80. I use it commercially and I waited 10 years to change it. After 10 years I finally changed it. It was still running good but it was time for a tune up. I also waited a long time to change my oil. I just kept topping it. I dont reccomend that by any measure but when your doing this commercially you just dont find the time. So it got a bit abused but it still runs excellent. I may have shortened the engines lifespan. Only time will tell. I also have mowers 15-20 years old with Briggs L heads that still had the same plug. Kept on going. But obviously changing the plug is a good idea. I think its every 100 hours on the blower, dont qoute me but the original plug probably had 1000 hours on it. I have noticed from pulling the heads on old motors the less you change the oil, the more carbon build up their is in the head. Thats very important to keep the head clean. Anyway its a shame, changing your plug turned out to be a nightmare. That should not happen. Especially on a top notch brand, expensive honda.
I keep better care of my equipment now. I did not know as much 10-15 years ago as I know now....


----------



## RIT333

FearlessFront said:


> Yep that has a descent amount of sut and carbon build. Dont get me wrong changing the plug is always a good idea. Just from my own experience on my Snapper snowblower, with Tecumseh HMSK80. I use it commercially and I waited 10 years to change it. After 10 years I finally changed it. It was still running good but it was time for a tune up. I also waited a long time to change my oil. I just kept topping it. I dont reccomend that by any measure but when your doing this commercially you just dont find the time. So it got a bit abused but it still runs excellent. I may have shortened the engines lifespan. Only time will tell. I also have mowers 15-20 years old with Briggs L heads that still had the same plug. Kept on going. But obviously changing the plug is a good idea. I think its every 100 hours on the blower, dont qoute me but the original plug probably had 1000 hours on it. I have noticed from pulling the heads on old motors the less you change the oil, the more carbon build up their is in the head. Thats very important to keep the head clean. Anyway its a shame, changing your plug turned out to be a nightmare. That should not happen. Especially on a top notch brand, expensive honda.
> I keep better care of my equipment now. I did not know as much 10-15 years ago as I know now....


An hour per year of preventative maintenance could have you a few hundred dollars of expense down the road. I'm sure you are much wiser to that now.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Since I didn't have the tools to tap.










And the TAP 










I'm gonna try to re-thread it, if it doesn't work, it's an insert. I will try to keep the original cylinder head, don't want a chinese repliaca on a brand new engine.

JnC PMed me a nice job aid that I will follow carefully and I will other new head gaskets. 

Do I need something else? *What about the Hondabond?


----------



## jrom

KaRLiToS said:


> ...Do I need something else? *What about the Hondabond?


There is no call to use Hondabond on the GX valve cover gasket or head gasket.

On the GCV lawnmower engines you use Hondabond on the valve cover gasket, unless you upgrade to the commercial valve cover and gasket.


----------



## KaRLiToS

I'm back with more tools.










I'm trying to find a shop manual for HSS928TCD 2014 (SARJ 50000000 )

Is this one ok? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Honda-HS928-...0219011&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=252686231422


I am almost done studying how to replace the cylinder head and I'm trying to find all the torques and gap I need to know.


----------



## LouC

Once you take the cyl head off why not take it to a machine shop and have them repair the threads, vs installing a new head?


----------



## KaRLiToS

LouC said:


> Once you take the cyl head off why not take it to a machine shop and have them repair the threads, vs installing a new head?


Replacing the head is my third option anyway. But it will cost the same amount to buy the tools and do it myself...but at the end...I keep the tools.

1st - Re-Thread it (If it works)
2nd - Fix-a Thread Insert 
3rd - If nothing works I'm gonna replace the cylinder head myself 

(For sure options 2 will work so I won't need a new head)

I am a electromechanic (but only work has an underground high, med and low voltage technician) there are tons of videos on the net on how to repair thread, and some tutorials on how to dissassemble Honda GX engine.

Before doing something I rather study everything and have all the proper tools.
I need to find a 1/4 torque wrench which range from 10-150lbs and a shop manual for my snowblower










Everything is here, bought the wrong torque wrenches though


----------



## LouC

Good luck with it, it will be *an education* for sure. You get to keep the tools....*and the KNOWLEDGE*......
This is what I've gotten from many jobs I've done over the years, not just saving money....gaining knowledge.....


----------



## KaRLiToS

LouC said:


> Good luck with it, it will be *an education* for sure. You get to keep the tools....*and the KNOWLEDGE*......
> This is what I've gotten from many jobs I've done over the years, not just saving money....gaining knowledge.....


That's true mate ...forgot the knowledge. That is why I want a shop manual....cannot trust those dealers anymore.


----------



## RIT333

What do you need the feeler gauges for ? If you plan to use them for the spark plug gap, the round rod ones are better for that.

If you have a Harbor Freight in the area, you can get a digital torque wrench with a coupon for about $12. I would probably get the 3/8 or 1/2" one instead of the 1/4" one. You can use it in a lot more application on your car - such as lug nuts.


----------



## KaRLiToS

RIT333 said:


> What do you need the feeler gauges for ? If you plan to use them for the spark plug gap, the round rod ones are better for that.
> 
> If you have a Harbor Freight in the area, you can get a digital torque wrench with a coupon for about $12. I would probably get the 3/8 or 1/2" one instead of the 1/4" one. You can use it in a lot more application on your car - such as lug nuts.


It was in case I had to remove the rocker arms. I use the round disk for all my sparkplugs, that is not a problem.

As for the torque, I already have a 1/2 and 3/8 torque wrench but their range are from 30/250.

I need a torque from 10-150lbs. Can you guys suggest one. I'm looking at this one http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1-4-in-Drive...816270?hash=item51f1b97d4e:g:~GoAAOSwCGVX7sfF

But I bought this one today and will put an adapter on it to fit my 1/4 socket. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/torque-wrench-3-8-in-0588661p.html#srp At least it starts at 0lbs


----------



## RIT333

KaRLiToS said:


> It was in case I had to remove the rocker arms.
> 
> I need a torque from 10-150lbs. Can you guys suggest one. I'm looking at this one 1/4 in. Drive Dual-Direction Click Torque Wrench (10-150 in.-lb.)TEKTON TRQ21101 | eBay


Nice one, but spendy. Again, Harbor Freight's were rated very highly by some magazine - don't remember what one, but it wasn't Harbor Freight's magazine. LOL


----------



## KaRLiToS

I also bought today a Stanley Fat Max Torque Wrench with range from 30-250*in-lb.*

On my engine, there are torques from 2.9*ft-lbs* to 80*ft-lbs*










Can someone help me convert *ft-lbs to in-lbs*. I think I might have the proper torque already, forgot that conversion detail.


----------



## Mike C.

Just my opinion,but a 3/8 drive torque wrench covering 25-250 INCH POUNDS would be more useful than the 1/4 drive.I have a 1/4 drive TW and have never used it.

You also want to keep in mind that torque wrenches are not very accurate on the lower end of their scales.If you need to torque a bolt to ten foot/pounds,you don't use a 10-80 foot/pound wrench.You would use a wrench that puts that number at least half way up its range.I would convert 10 foot/pounds to inch/pounds(120) and use my 25-250 inch/pound wrench.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Ok, I already have the tools then. Just need the conversion table, is it me or 17ft-lbs is equal to 204in-lbs?

Foot-pounds Force to Inch-pounds Force | Kyle's Converter


----------



## LouC

PS I see you're from Montreal..... we go up to Montreal every year for the F-1 race, love the city, esp the old port area...the F-1 is one big party there!
And yes 17 ft lbs is 204 in lbs. Why not use newton meters? Silly USA we are still using the old system even though all our cars and trucks have been 100 % metric for many years.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Yeah Montréal is great. The f1 week contains a lot of action in MTL.


So I started dissassembling everything and when I could reach the spark plug hole easily, I just tried (for fun) with a lot of grease on the tap..... I tried to screw the tap bit in the hole by hand.









It went ok by hand for 3-4 threads, then harder so I put a 4" extension, could do another 2-3 threads then it blocked, added the tap wrench










And then I felt one or 2 threads that were kind of blocked but that is it. I screwed in the tap couple of times everytime with clean grease and I re-tapped the hole. It was easily screwable by hand from the beggining to the end.

Let me show you the sparkplug inside it


----------



## Mike C.

How does it feel when you tighten the plug with the wrench?Does it feel good and solid or kind of mushy?It it feels solid I'd run it with it.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Solid


----------



## JD in NJ

KaRLiToS said:


> Solid


That's awesome. The next questions are:

1) How do you decide that you REALLY haven't dropped any shavings down into the cylinder?
2) How do you go about flushing the cylinder when you decide you can't be sure?

I'm going to guess that a light oil and turning the engine over to drain is the answer to number 2. I think I'd feel best if I used an inspection camera as well.


----------



## LouC

If the plug can be tightened to the specified torque (and honestly I torque plugs on all my small engines by feel because I can feel when it's tightening up) Id run it. If it's got a gasket I get it hand tight then about 1/2 turn more to compress the gadket. But if the plug was already installed once (gasket already compressed) then I get it hand tight and just a little more (like about 1/16th turn) just to get the gasket to seal.

Sometimes what causes these problems is damaged threads on the spark plugs. Always check the threads carefully on any plug you install.


----------



## jrom

^^^^
Good advice Lou.


----------



## KaRLiToS

I'll torque it to 21ft-lbs. I only redid the thread so probably no material fell into the hole, espcially with all the grease I used, carb cleaner and compressed air. 

If I had to resize the hole for an insert I would have removed a lot of aluminium and would have removed the head in order to repair it.

But I coul almost retap the threads by hand this time, from begginning to the end. 

I feel confident.


----------



## jrom

If you pull this off (which I'm sure you will). It'll be great.


----------



## LouC

Keep in mind that torque specs assume dry threads. So if they are lubed with grease or oil you should reduce the torque by 1/3 or so. Otherwise you can get it too tight and with alu threads that's not good. In this case then 14 ft lbs. if this plug was installed already, I would do it by feel as I said above. Get it hand tight with the ratchet and 1/16th turn more to seat the gssket. You can feel how tight it's getting that way and you can't really feel this using a torque wrench......


----------



## KaRLiToS




----------



## JD in NJ

:bestpost:


----------



## RIT333

Send your dealer a bill for $500 and tell him to stick it up his a$$.

They should have looked at it, and done the same as you did...for free.

Oh, pardon my French, s'il vous plait.


----------



## Mike C.

RIT333 said:


> Send your dealer a bill for $500 and tell him to stick it up his a$$.
> ......


My favorite post-hands down.:icon-cheers:

Karlitos,well done.I would check the tightness of the plug after a couple of blowing sessions-if it stays tight,you're golden.

I'll bet you're going to sleep like a log tonight-I always do when I solve a problem that's been bugging the **** out of me.


----------



## Mike C.

JD in NJ said:


> That's awesome. The next questions are:
> 
> 1) How do you decide that you REALLY haven't dropped any shavings down into the cylinder?
> 2) How do you go about flushing the cylinder when you decide you can't be sure?
> 
> I'm going to guess that a light oil and turning the engine over to drain is the answer to number 2. I think I'd feel best if I used an inspection camera as well.


Small diameter copper or vinyl tubing duck-taped to a vacuum cleaner wand and shoved down through the sparkplug hole can clean a cylinder out very well.Don't ask me how I know this.


----------



## dbert

I've not heard of the shaving cream foam trick. I'd imagine if you stopped a few degrees before top dead center before you start, you could push the more contaminated portion of the foam back out Then vacuum, rinse and blow with compressed air.


----------



## Loco-diablo

Nicely done! Congrats!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LouC

Great job!
I did a similar repair on an old 1970 Ford with a 302 (5 liter) V8 back in '78 or so. Removed the plugs to do a tune up and couldn't get one back in! Used the thread chaser and grease and ran that car till it got totaled in '85 or so. Still have the spark plug thread chaser in my tool box. It was a little harder because I didn't have such great access (1970 Ford Torino had spring towers in the way).


----------



## CarlB

KaRLiToS said:


> https://youtu.be/3xHUzIGIBvk



Job well done.


----------



## KaRLiToS

I am very happy, and yes I slept like a log just because of this.


It has been haunting my thoughts for the last weeks.


Honda products are great and awsome...but their service, it left a sour taste in my mouth...a taste that will remain there for a long while.


If I brought my snowblower at the dealer at first is because of the girl at the reception. When I called and told her my story, she was like:" This is unnacceptable, Honda will repair this for sure or change your blower for a new one, bring it here and we'll do something about it" When I arrived, the guys at the service were pretending I stripped the hole and when he called Honda warranty in front of me, he never tried to defend me, he said to Honda:" I will send the pictures so you notice how the Customer stripped the hole"....yeah right thanks man.


The dealer that sold me the blower delievered it without User manual, with a kinked gaz tank, low oil level in the engine and never made me sign a PDI checklist. They are now closed so I tried another dealer 20 miles from my house.... a dealer that tried to ripped me of. 


*How can I love Honda now?*


Hey guys, you have to realize that I couldn't do all this without you, not only the knowledge you gave me but the confidence to do it myself on a machine still under warranty. 
At first I was expecting a rapair of 800$+ with parts and time. It finally cost me 0$ and I got out with a ton of tools, bought for around 350$ of tools. NICe


----------



## JD in NJ

KaRLiToS said:


> a machine still under warranty


A debatable assertion, sadly.


----------



## JnC

Great job, nothing more gratifying than fixing stuff yourself .


----------



## KaRLiToS

JnC said:


> Great job, nothing more gratifying than fixing stuff yourself .


I agree.


It just sucks that I studied for a week or so how to dissassemble the whole GX270 engine but didn't have to do it at the end.


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## skidooer

This unit being a 4 stroke with over head valves maybe it might be best to remove the head to do repairs. Once those chips start falling guess where they'll fall. That's right, down on your piston head and probably get caught up between the piston skirt and the walls of the cylinder or even under a valve face when it lifts up. 

Please remove the head. Even if your just going to use a thread chaser to clean up the old threads, which by the way is all you'll probably need to do. If you do use a thread chaser and not remove the head when doing so, don't pull that engine over, use compressed air into the plug hole and hope it'll blow back up through the plug hole.

good luck


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## RIT333

skidooer said:


> This unit being a 4 stroke with over head valves maybe it might be best to remove the head to do repairs. Once those chips start falling guess where they'll fall. That's right, down on your piston head and probably get caught up between the piston skirt and the walls of the cylinder or even under a valve face when it lifts up.
> 
> Please remove the head. Even if your just going to use a thread chaser to clean up the old threads, which by the way is all you'll probably need to do. If you do use a thread chaser and not remove the head when doing so, don't pull that engine over, use compressed air into the plug hole and hope it'll blow back up through the plug hole.
> 
> good luck


You're about 12 hours too late with those warnings. He didn't do any of those things, so you may want to remove your thread, otherwise he may not sleep during the full ownership of this machine - which, hopefully, will be a long time. Read some of his recent posts to see how he handled it.


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## KaRLiToS

I'm 99,9% sure no aluminium fell into the head. I'm very meticulous. Also, what do you guys think if I run my snowblower for 25 minutes and make an oïl change? Just keep in mind that I re-tap the same size, so little to no aluminium was removed.


________________________________


Update:
Just got a phone call from Honda, the guy seemed very cooperative (finally) and told me he was waiting for some détails from the dealer I went to see for the repairs (Excel moto). First of all, the dealer, which I spoke to last friday when I went to get back my blower, told the representative from Honda Canada that my machine was still in their garage, which is *not true *and he should know since I meet him Friday....


Since I was honest with Honda since the begginning, I also explained to them that the blower is now repaired...just so they can realize what I went through. Oh, and I mentionned that a community called www.snowblowerforum.com supported me from the begginning to the end.


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## RIT333

I would get the Honda guy's name and number, and make sure that they would cover your engine in case anything happens during the warranty - even though you "touched it" - just so they don't blame you !

As far as the oil change - that would probably be $5 well spent. I would probably - for fun - run the drain oil through a fine screen filter just to see if there are any shavings. But, I doubt if you'll find any, but it will just give you more piece of mind.

Sucks that Honda put you through all this. I would get the Honda guy's e-mail address, and send him the link to this thread. Then he will see all of the negative goodwill that was created by them being penny-wise and pound-foolish. They may have lost a sale of two by being jerks over this - especially your dealer !

Great job on your part, and good luck.

Keep us up to date !


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## georgewny

Great job KaRLiToS!

It's great when you do the work yourself.
Not only for saving money, but you become much more aware of what to look for when doing, even just routine maintenance.
Plus now you have added to your tool "warehouse".
it's a Win, Win, Win

excellent


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## Bluejoe

Excellent job. I guess now you can check spark plug for any play after each use just in case vibration loosens it's grip.


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## rearaghaerh

I had been considering Honda for my next blower. Need to rethink that now.


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## RIT333

Deere Owner said:


> I had been considering Honda for my next blower. Need to rethink that now.


I was thinking the same, but too many stories about it (and the owners) $hitting bricks when the snow it wet.


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## colin.p

KaRLiToS said:


> At first I was expecting a repair of 800$+ with parts and time. It finally cost me 0$ and I got out with a ton of tools, bought for around 350$ of tools. NICe


Look at it this way. You get tools and experience on fixing stripped spark-plug holes in aluminum heads. Heck, you can go into business fixing small engines, maybe even a youtube channel.


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## RIT333

colin.p said:


> Look at it this way. You get tools and experience on fixing stripped spark-plug holes in aluminum heads. Heck, you can go into business fixing small engines, maybe even a youtube channel.


He can be a sub-contractor for Honda and charge $250.. That way, Honda saves $250, and you make $250. The is called "Split-savings" in the Electric Utility Industry !


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## Apple Guy

KaRLiToS said:


> Tuesday i'm taking to to the dealer, no availability until then.
> 
> Anyone else has an opinion on the pictures of the sparkplugs?


I do........Why change the plugs??? Do you change the spark plugs in your car if you would drive from New York to LA twice? I used a total of 2 spark plugs in my Yamaha 828 in 20 years. So many people throw away perfectly good spark plugs because they want to "feel good". "Yep, changed my plug too!!" 

.


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## georgewny

*makes sense changing the plug in this case*



Apple Guy said:


> I do........Why change the plugs??? Do you change the spark plugs in your car if you would drive from New York to LA twice? I used a total of 2 spark plugs in my Yamaha 828 in 20 years. So many people throw away perfectly good spark plugs because they want to "feel good". "Yep, changed my plug too!!"
> 
> .


I believe the reason he choose to change out the plug was that he was just doing maintenance on his other machines...
And he mentioned it's only a 2 year old Honda Snowblower with very few hours on it, (under 40 hours, something like that). And was having a hard time starting her up (15 or more pulls to start) and that is excessive for any Honda engine, much less a engine with so few hours. So checking the spark plug would make perfect sense. and changing it would cost so little in the scheme of things. I also run my plugs for many years, just pull them at end of season and give them a good cleaning and check gap, shot some oil into the cylinder and good to go for another year. 
But in this case, he was experiencing poor starting/performance, so the gas and plug would be some of the first things to check.


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## KaRLiToS

Apple Guy said:


> KaRLiToS said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tuesday i'm taking to to the dealer, no availability until then.
> 
> Anyone else has an opinion on the pictures of the sparkplugs?
> 
> 
> 
> I do........Why change the plugs??? Do you change the spark plugs in your car if you would drive from New York to LA twice? I used a total of 2 spark plugs in my Yamaha 828 in 20 years. So many people throw away perfectly good spark plugs because they want to "feel good". "Yep, changed my plug too!!"
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Ok

-----------------

I cant seem to find a shop manual for SARJ 5000000


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## JayzAuto1

Congratulations K, It's always smarter to try and 'Chase' the threads first. I just found a special type of thread chaser in my box, designed to be used just for that purpose. It's an 'Expandable' Thread Chaser. It works by using the threads from the bottom of the tapped hole. Most damaged threads are near the top of the hole. So when trying to chase threads, if starting on a damaged thread, it is possible to damage all the threads as the tool works its way down the hole, ESP if it's not started straight. This tool, in the relaxed position is actually a smaller diameter than the hole to be repaired. It is then inserted in the damaged hole and expanded with a nut and pull through bolt, to the correct diameter. It is then run in reverse to chase the threads. The theory behind this, is that it uses undamaged threads to start the repair process. As it is backed out, it's started perfectly straight and concentric, cleaning up the damaged threads on the way out.....absolutely ingenious!!!! Another plus of this, is that when coated with grease, it actually 'Pulls' the chips out with the tool, as opposed to 'Pushing' the chips in. They are sized to the thread pitch and diameter of the hole to be repaired, but I just have the common sizes.....ie. Spark Plug sizes and a few others. Well worth the price of admission. J


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## RIT333

JayzAuto1 said:


> Congratulations K, It's always smarter to try and 'Chase' the threads first. I just found a special type of thread chaser in my box, designed to be used just for that purpose. It's an 'Expandable' Thread Chaser. It works by using the threads from the bottom of the tapped hole. Most damaged threads are near the top of the hole. So when trying to chase threads, if starting on a damaged thread, it is possible to damage all the threads as the tool works its way down the hole, ESP if it's not started straight. This tool, in the relaxed position is actually a smaller diameter than the hole to be repaired. It is then inserted in the damaged hole and expanded with a nut and pull through bolt, to the correct diameter. It is then run in reverse to chase the threads. The theory behind this, is that it uses undamaged threads to start the repair process. As it is backed out, it's started perfectly straight and concentric, cleaning up the damaged threads on the way out.....absolutely ingenious!!!! Another plus of this, is that when coated with grease, it actually 'Pulls' the chips out with the tool, as opposed to 'Pushing' the chips in. They are sized to the thread pitch and diameter of the hole to be repaired, but I just have the common sizes.....ie. Spark Plug sizes and a few others. Well worth the price of admission. J


Do you have a link to it, or the name or brand name of it ? Sounds like a must have for DIY people.


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## JayzAuto1

GEvening Gents, I had purchased these from Snap-On many years ago from a dealer that was retiring. He told me back then, that they were no longer available thru Snap-On, and they were New Old Stock. But he knew I was (AM) a tool-junkie, and knew I didn't have them. I'm sure that they are still made/available, as they are indispensable as a thread repair tool. But I've never seen another since. I'm sure they aren't available thru normal tool channels, but more than likely thru a high end machine shop supply company. I'll try to attach photo's (IF I have enough posts). I don't recall what I paid for them at the time, But, like most specialty tools, if they do the job correctly, they are worth while. Quality isn't expensive....It's priceless!!! IDK if the pix will post, but I just use windows photo viewer. GLuck, J


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## JD in NJ

Is it something like this? https://www.farmandfleet.com/produc...w4h7jOEpnGVLr3wi9byXuAE4OnB3uc0-rcaAsEM8P8HAQ


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## JayzAuto1

Yes, That's them. Trying to re-load pix


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## KaRLiToS




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## highlight

My snowblower was bought in jan 2017 so it is relatively new. This model is definately not as good as the Honda HS928 it replaced. Ther rubber tracks are smaller and narrower and it doesn't track as well as my old one. Also it tends to clog under certain conditions but I can live with that (I quess). Anyway boy did I have trouble replacing the plug in this one. I replace the plug yearly just because. Anyway I know the head is aluminum and the plug has steel threads so I was aware that the threads can strip easliy. I threaded the plug in by hand and I was at it about a half hour. Anyway I finally got it threaded in by hand about half way and then put the socket wrench to it. It became really hard to turn. Sooo I removed the plug, threaded it by hand again and then the same thing...super hard to turn. Long story short after many tries I just ratched it down the last little bit but I knew it wasn't in right. The blower started and ran ok but I knew the plug was in wrong. I bought a $12.99 limited access spark plug thread chaser and removed the plug and ran this through the hole. Again the first half was easy but the last half was super hard to turn. I convinced it with the thread chaser and this worked perfectly. The sparkplug can now be easily started by hand and tightened as per normal with the ratchet. My conclusion? The original threads in the head from the Honda factory were very sloppily/poorly done. By the way the local Honda dealer said that they have TONS of service calls for stripped sparkplug hole threads which reinforces my conclusion. Dissappointed in Honda lately with this suposedly premium product.


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## orangputeh

highlight said:


> My snowblower was bought in jan 2017 so it is relatively new. This model is definately not as good as the Honda HS928 it replaced. Ther rubber tracks are smaller and narrower and it doesn't track as well as my old one. Also it tends to clog under certain conditions but I can live with that (I quess). Anyway boy did I have trouble replacing the plug in this one. I replace the plug yearly just because. Anyway I know the head is aluminum and the plug has steel threads so I was aware that the threads can strip easliy. I threaded the plug in by hand and I was at it about a half hour. Anyway I finally got it threaded in by hand about half way and then put the socket wrench to it. It became really hard to turn. Sooo I removed the plug, threaded it by hand again and then the same thing...super hard to turn. Long story short after many tries I just ratched it down the last little bit but I knew it wasn't in right. The blower started and ran ok but I knew the plug was in wrong. I bought a $12.99 limited access spark plug thread chaser and removed the plug and ran this through the hole. Again the first half was easy but the last half was super hard to turn. I convinced it with the thread chaser and this worked perfectly. The sparkplug can now be easily started by hand and tightened as per normal with the ratchet. My conclusion? The original threads in the head from the Honda factory were very sloppily/poorly done. By the way the local Honda dealer said that they have TONS of service calls for stripped sparkplug hole threads which reinforces my conclusion. Dissappointed in Honda lately with this suposedly premium product.


why would you change spark plug every year? They can last a long time. I took out mine from my 624 that i have had for 7 years. sparks strong, cleaned it and reinstalled. If it goes bad I can replace in 5 minutes. am I missing something here?

BTW, I am very surprised Honda admitted this problem to you. Usually everything is a bed of roses when you ask the dealer.


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## UNDERTAKER

*We never heard back from Him to let us know what became of it. I would like to know anyway.k:k:k:k:k:*


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## KaRLiToS

I made a video of it back then:






and :


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