# EFI Fuel pump dead



## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2019)

Model 926068 hydro pro EFI model, only 7 months old. Went to start it in the shed a few days ago and it was dead. I followed the service manual troubleshooting and deduced that the fuel pump is dead. LED flash code is 27 (low/no fuel pressure), and there is 7.8VDC at the fuel pump terminals with the ignition switch on. No sound or pressure from the fuel pump. 
Next question is should I replace it myself or have the dealer do it since it is only 7 months old and only has about 2 hours use on it. If it is an easy fix I would rather do it myself for convenience sake since since the dealer will likely charge for transporting it back and forth. Anyone know what is involved in replacing the fuel pump, it appears to be inaccessible without removing the fuel tank and I am not sure what that involves either at first glance. Thanks for any help!


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

probably best to contact the dealer. i would assume if it is covered under warranty they should cover the cost of transporting it. there is also a good chance that they won't give you the new pump free of charge if you are doing the work yourself or blame you and not warranty fix anything in the future if something does go wrong. this is probably the best time of year to get it looked at. definitely beating the winter rush


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## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2019)

Yeah, good point on the future warranty coverage. I just called the dealer, its $50 round trip transport fee. Considering the distance, I'm ok with that since I have no way to get it there on my own. Hopefully the new pump lasts more than a few hours this time, LOL. I hate to have it die in a storm.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

with how new the technology is it is better safe than sorry to have the dealer check/service it especially if it is still under warranty. minus well let the warranty cover the parts/labor cost especially with what any fuel injected machine costs. i would have hoped it would also cover transport fee but you never know. i guess dealers have to make money of some sort since i doubt warranty work pays too good.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

What is battery voltage. Does starter crank over


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## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2019)

crazzywolfie said:


> with how new the technology is it is better safe than sorry to have the dealer check/service it especially if it is still under warranty. minus well let the warranty cover the parts/labor cost especially with what any fuel injected machine costs. i would have hoped it would also cover transport fee but you never know. i guess dealers have to make money of some sort since i doubt warranty work pays too good.


They are picking it up this weekend to take it back to the shop, I'll let you know what they find in case anyone else has the same problem. I am 99% sure it is the fuel pump from the the troubleshooting that I did per the service manual but we will see. I wish Ariens could just send me the fuel pump but I understand their reluctance to trust an "untrained" person to troubleshoot.


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## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2019)

groomerz said:


> What is battery voltage. Does starter crank over
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The battery is good, freshly charged. Voltage at the fuel pump is about 8 VDC with igntion on, which is what it should be. The trouble code LED is flashing "2-7" which is low/no fuel pressure per the manual. There is fuel in the tank, no kinked fuel lines, no blockage in the fuel filter. With ignition on, there is no sound from the pump at all and no pressure. All indications are pointing to the fuel pump, hopefully the dealer will find the same. 

In case anyone else can use it, here is a link to the service manual for the EFI models. The EFI troubleshooting section is towards the end. 

http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/05136630B.pdf


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

did you drain the fuel tank and run the tank dry after its last use? electric fuel pumps are pretty sensitive. i would almost wonder if you need to run some 2 stroke gas through the pump at the end of the season as long as there is no o2 sensor on it. the fuel pump used on it looks similar to what is used in cars and they hate sitting dry and it would never hurt to keep them lubed in the off season but may want to consult the dealer and see if they have suggestions.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

groomerz said:


> What is battery voltage. Does starter crank over
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not related. This blower does not have battery start, just 110v, and the battery it has is small and for the EFI only.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

I would never buy a Machine that can have these types of Problems. Each to their own.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

crazzywolfie said:


> did you drain the fuel tank and run the tank dry after its last use? electric fuel pumps are pretty sensitive. i would almost wonder if you need to run some 2 stroke gas through the pump at the end of the season as long as there is no o2 sensor on it. the fuel pump used on it looks similar to what is used in cars and they hate sitting dry and it would never hurt to keep them lubed in the off season but may want to consult the dealer and see if they have suggestions.


Geez, I hope they're not that sensitive! I've heard suggestions to run the injectors dry during the off-season, as they can suffer from fuel degradation clogging. If people need to run the injectors dry, and keep 2-stroke gas in the fuel pump, for storage, then this may get interesting  

thehappening, I hope this is just a 1-off fluke, and the machine gets back to reliable service! Sorry you have to pay for transport.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

injectors don't care as far as i can tell. fuel pump clear them out the first time you pressurize the system and the injector fire. fuel pumps on the other hand don't like being run dry and sitting dry especially when exposed to ethanol fuel. they like to lock up when they sit dry after being exposed to fuel. i know i have had a few automotive pumps that i have pulled from tanks and let sit till i needed them and always dead when i needed them. fuel pumps left sitting in bad fuel for 2+ years even with some water in the tank and they work just fine pumping out 60+psi still. from now on if i pull a pump i will pump some oil through them before tossing them in storage since fuel pumps are not cheap.


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## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2019)

RedOctobyr said:


> Geez, I hope they're not that sensitive! I've heard suggestions to run the injectors dry during the off-season, as they can suffer from fuel degradation clogging. If people need to run the injectors dry, and keep 2-stroke gas in the fuel pump, for storage, then this may get interesting
> 
> thehappening, I hope this is just a 1-off fluke, and the machine gets back to reliable service! Sorry you have to pay for transport.


Thanks, hoping for the fluke too. I am assuming it is not a widespread issue or there would be a lot more people discussing this sort of failure. Anything can fail, especially something this new if it is a defective part from the factory. I know everyone has their own preferences, but I will take EFI any day for long term reliability. For every story like this, I can tell you 10 stories from experience over the years with carb machines not starting. I have a tractor, snowmobile, 2 motorcycles, multiple cars, a generator and ALL are fuel injected. Never had one problem with any of them starting aside from this. I just wish Ariens would have trusted my troubleshooting and sent me the part so I could just replace it myself without transporting the machine. Its a 20 minute job at best.


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## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2019)

crazzywolfie said:


> injectors don't care as far as i can tell. fuel pump clear them out the first time you pressurize the system and the injector fire. fuel pumps on the other hand don't like being run dry and sitting dry especially when exposed to ethanol fuel. they like to lock up when they sit dry after being exposed to fuel. i know i have had a few automotive pumps that i have pulled from tanks and let sit till i needed them and always dead when i needed them. fuel pumps left sitting in bad fuel for 2+ years even with some water in the tank and they work just fine pumping out 60+psi still. from now on if i pull a pump i will pump some oil through them before tossing them in storage since fuel pumps are not cheap.


definitely, sitting dry is not a good thing for anything with gaskets/seals


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Yea, these fandangles on a machine, don't need them, took off my electric start because of that and now I pull it, all 25hp of it, sometimes I put it in gear and push start it, then I decided to put a crank on it, No not to start it, to turn the auger, forget the engine and putting gas in it, strong like horse, when the horse died I had to plow the field....


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## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2019)

Got the machine back from the service center and it was in fact the fuel pump that died with only a few hours of use on it. All covered under warranty. A little concerning that it failed, but I guess it is better to find it in September than in a blizzard. This time, LOL.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Got the machine back from the service center and it was in fact the fuel pump that died with only a few hours of use on it. All covered under warranty. A little concerning that it failed, but I guess it is better to find it in September than in a blizzard. This time, LOL.


Glad they got it fixed up for you. Wow, just a few hours on the old pump. Will we see EFI to carb conversion kits for these one day? :surprise:


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Not likely, but a carb to EFI kit would be nice! So much less to gum up and go wrong!


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i am pretty sure you can already get efi conversion kits. the bigger decision is whether it is worth the extra $500 or so for no real improvement in performance. while they don't usually get gummed up fuel pumps don't like sitting for long periods of time without running especially since they started adding ethanol.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Aftermarket kits yes, I was more thinking of Ariens/LCT offering the parts to convert older AX engines . . . I'm giving serious thought to seeing how bad I would get killed trading my less than year old Plat 24 for the EFI version . . (would have bought that in the first place, had any been stocked . . . ).


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i doubt companies like ariens would waste money building efi kits for older machines when they would make more money just selling you a brand new machine. less headache that way because you know they would have to offer tech support to home owners installing them and things not working as they should if at all.


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## IowaNick (Sep 12, 2019)

Honest question...

What's so difficult about turning a choke knob, pulling a starter cord twice, then 10 seconds later turning the choke knob off?

Especially for no performance benefit for the multi-hundred dollar premium, the inability of most owners to service/repair, and the HUGE repair costs after the unit is out of warranty. My backup machine is a 1993 Craftsman 8/26 originally purchased by my dad. It's never had ethanol fuel in it, and my dad (and I after he passed away) never used a stabilizer in the many hundreds of tanks of gas that have gone through it. The only fuel system maintenance ever done to it was to run it dry at the end of the year and fill it up again the following winter. It still starts on the second pull and runs like a top, no carb adjustments have ever been done to it in the over quarter century it's been used. I just don't get the problem people have with carburetors. You're basically paying $500 for not having to flip a choke lever and a huge expense when something fails after warranty.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

IowaNick said:


> Honest question...
> 
> What's so difficult about turning a choke knob, pulling a starter cord twice, then 10 seconds later turning the choke knob off?
> 
> Especially for no performance benefit for the multi-hundred dollar premium, the inability of most owners to service/repair, and the HUGE repair costs after the unit is out of warranty. My backup machine is a 1993 Craftsman 8/26 originally purchased by my dad. It's never had ethanol fuel in it, and my dad (and I after he passed away) never used a stabilizer in the many hundreds of tanks of gas that have gone through it. The only fuel system maintenance ever done to it was to run it dry at the end of the year and fill it up again the following winter. It still starts on the second pull and runs like a top, no carb adjustments have ever been done to it in the over quarter century it's been used. I just don't get the problem people have with carburetors. You're basically paying $500 for not having to flip a choke lever and a huge expense when something fails after warranty.



Really, no performance benefits? How about reading this:https://www.ariens.com/en-us/efi-ez-launch


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Marketing that is IMO
If machine is stored outside in shed in very cold what happens when the 8 volt battery voltage is too low to run efi. Never seen an 8 volt charger or 8 volt jump box or 8 volt battery at auto parts store

Am I off track that this battery is a specialty item $$$$


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

IowaNick said:


> Honest question...
> 
> What's so difficult about turning a choke knob, pulling a starter cord twice, then 10 seconds later turning the choke knob off?
> 
> Especially for no performance benefit for the multi-hundred dollar premium, the inability of most owners to service/repair, and the HUGE repair costs after the unit is out of warranty. My backup machine is a 1993 Craftsman 8/26 originally purchased by my dad. It's never had ethanol fuel in it, and my dad (and I after he passed away) never used a stabilizer in the many hundreds of tanks of gas that have gone through it. The only fuel system maintenance ever done to it was to run it dry at the end of the year and fill it up again the following winter. It still starts on the second pull and runs like a top, no carb adjustments have ever been done to it in the over quarter century it's been used. I just don't get the problem people have with carburetors. You're basically paying $500 for not having to flip a choke lever and a huge expense when something fails after warranty.



Agreed 100%.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

groomerz said:


> Marketing that is IMO
> If machine is stored outside in shed in very cold what happens when the 8 volt battery voltage is too low to run efi. Never seen an 8 volt charger or 8 volt jump box or 8 volt battery at auto parts store
> 
> Am I off track that this battery is a specialty item $$$$
> ...


Battery is lithium so should keep a charge for a very long time. Also lithium batteries by their chemical nature and makeup like being stored in the cold. Ariens does offer Ariens part #05079500 CHARGER BATTERY EFI.


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## IowaNick (Sep 12, 2019)

Zavie said:


> Really, no performance benefits? How about reading this:https://www.ariens.com/en-us/efi-ez-launch


*"Starts easier"* -- Easier than one pull on a carbed unit?

*"Sips less fuel"* -- Hmm... How much? Let's make a VERY generous assumption of 10% (not a chance). The average fuel price in the snow belt is about $2.75/gal. An Ariens blower will hold .5 gallons costing $1.38 per tank. So at a 10% fuel savings (again, there's no chance of that) we save $0.14 per fill-up. That comes to 2,167 fill-ups to offset the $300 adder for EFI.

Time savings? If your blower runs for 45 minutes under load you save less than 5 minutes per tank at 10%.

*"More consistent power"* -- Their chart shows a 420cc carbed motor losing over 50% horsepower from 3,400 RPM to 3,500 RPM, while the EFI 420 maintains it all. If that's not marketing wank aimed at finding one of the suckers born every minute, I don't know what is.

I don't care what anyone does with his or her money whatsoever, but when there's a $300-400 likely repair bill in 5 years plus the $300 original upcharge, plus downtime in a snowstorm where it's critical that my machine works, I know I'm not willing to donate $600-700 just so I don't have to flip a choke lever and have to buy a $30 battery every 3-4 years.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

To anyone who even understands a little about EFI the benefits are obvious and easy to understand. That's why Ariens test data is not only believable but I feel they understate the outcomes. That said I agree with you about the money side and and I'm not sure I would ever buy one if their EFI units if the system is not well designed and bulletproof. I don't own an Ariens but I like their story and I like that a small company in America's heartland is trying to be on the cutting edge of their products. Others may make fun of them and even bash them openly on the forum but I'm rooting for them to be successful. Not only with EFI but as a company supporting families who work hard to support themselves.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Zavie said:


> To anyone who even understands a little about EFI the benefits are obvious and easy to understand. That's why Ariens test data is not only believable but I feel they understate the outcomes. That said I agree with you about the money side and and I'm not sure I would ever buy one if their EFI units if the system is not well designed and bulletproof. I don't own an Ariens but I like their story and I like that a small company in America's heartland is trying to be on the cutting edge of their products. Others may make fun of them and even bash them openly on the forum but I'm rooting for them to be successful. Not only with EFI but as a company supporting families who work hard to support themselves.


Only problem is, that is not an American made engine, and those engines don't hold up at all. And their advertising is false. We have run many of those engines on a dyno, and the output was much less than what Ariens/LCT chart claims. Any College grad kid/fraternity brother can draw up a chart like that. The only thing they learned in college was how to B.S. people, besides being a "Con Artist".
So you are not supporting any American families when you purchase one of those engine, if anything, you are taking their income away from them.
You might be supporting the repair technician because of all the failures with the engine.


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## IowaNick (Sep 12, 2019)

Zavie said:


> To anyone who even understands a little about EFI the benefits are obvious and easy to understand. That's why Ariens test data is not only believable but I feel they understate the outcomes. That said I agree with you about the money side and and I'm not sure I would ever buy one if their EFI units if the system is not well designed and bulletproof. I don't own an Ariens but I like their story and I like that a small company in America's heartland is trying to be on the cutting edge of their products. Others may make fun of them and even bash them openly on the forum but I'm rooting for them to be successful. Not only with EFI but as a company supporting families who work hard to support themselves.


I don't hope for anyone to have a failure. I'm not that kind of guy.

I just try to be logical when I think about units of value per dollar.

Regarding the "power consistency," maybe this is a better angle to come at it...Has anyone out there ever hit EOD with say, a Deluxe 28 SHO or Platinum 24 and thought, "Man, I need $300 worth of extra power right now?" I'd have to say probably not.

And to be sure, I have friends who think it's ridiculous that I paid $1,700 for a snowblower after tax. That fact isn't lost on me. But going from a 26 year old 8 HP Tecumseh to an Ariens Platinum 24 has definite and tangible benefits over some 200ish cc Yard-man for 1/3 of that price. I get done faster (my time is worth money to me), the machine is more robust, and critical parts that take wear are more reliable and easier to service. On my older Craftsman I had to take a wheel off to drain oil, if it threw a belt it was a huge time-consuming pain to change it, I at some point broke the plastic belt cover and the deflector (plastic) broke at the attachment point to the chute (also plastic). With the Ariens I can shoot snow over my house into the backyard where it's not in my way anymore, that wasn't even a consideration before. It will take a foot of wet snow at my normal walking speed. Those are all benefits that justify a premium over a "toy" snowblower to me because they affect my experience. I just don't see the dollar benefit with the EFI when I see the current experiences some people are having and the downtime/hassle, etc.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> Only problem is, that is not an American made engine, and those engines don't hold up at all. And their advertising is false. We have run many of those engines on a dyno, and the output was much less than what Ariens/LCT chart claims. Any College grad kid/fraternity brother can draw up a chart like that. The only thing they learned in college was how to B.S. people, besides being a "Con Artist".
> So you are not supporting any American families when you purchase one of those engine, if anything, you are taking their income away from them.
> You might be supporting the repair technician because of all the failures with the engine.


Sad, so very sad.....


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## IowaNick (Sep 12, 2019)

ST1100A said:


> So you are not supporting any American families when you purchase one of those engine, *if anything, you are taking their income away from them.*


Not really. If there were some small engines still being made in the States and you bought an LCT you may be correct, but there's nothing made here anymore. Every walk-behind blower is going to have an Asian engine on it from the factory.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Briggs is bringing production back to the States now. Honda and Kawasaki are made here, and Japan.
Yea it is sad that everything is made cheaper overseas, all for profit to the CEO's and screw the american taxpaying person.


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## IowaNick (Sep 12, 2019)

ST1100A said:


> Briggs is bringing production back to the States now.


Even the 400cc and below units?

From what I understood only the Vanguard twin was brought back over here.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

IowaNick said:


> Even the 400cc and below units?
> 
> From what I understood only the Vanguard twin was brought back over here.


They are in the process of bringing back most if not all production back to the States now, although it will take time, maybe a couple of years. They saw how their quality dropped when they went overseas with everything and it gave them a bad reputation that will take a long time to recover from.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

You figure a lot of the small engine EFI is in the experimental and development stages now. I would save to give it at least 10 more years till they perfect it better and see how it works by then.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I'll be dead by then......if not will still be using a Powershift or 924 Ariens


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