# auger belt vibrating/flapping



## tjoyce81

Hello, I have a troy bilt 2410 snow blower. Model 31AS62N2711. Bought used. 
The issue is - when the engine is idling and the auger is disengaged - the belt vibrates/flapping really bad on the opposite side of the idler pulley. I adjusted the belt tension to various tensions - too loose, too tight, and just right - but it vibrates/flaps all the time. I also moved the idler pulley to a tighter setting but it did not work. 
The belt is new part #754-04050A. It says that this belt replaces (or is the same as) the proper number which is #954-04050A - but I am not sure. It seems the belt is too long...?? 

Questions - Other than the belt, what can cause this? The new belt is a V-belt - Should it be a clogged belt?


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## Oneacer

Does that machine not have belt guides, as all my machines have?

I use the Gates Power Rated Green .. ?


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## tjoyce81

No. It uses the head of a bolt (as a damper?) - and a bracket attached to a spring to kinda guide the belt in the pulley. The only guide for the belt is the actual pulley's V. 
A belt guide where my belt is vibrating seems to make sense - but there is none.


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## Oneacer

I am wondering if someone removed it, and never put it back. Does the schematic show one?


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## tjoyce81

Where would the guide be? 
This is my first snowblower - but I am pretty good at mechanical stuff. Seems someone did remove something...Just not sure..


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## Grunt

Welcome to SBF tjoyce81. I don't see any auger belt guide in the service manual. If the belt is new and has no nicks or cuts, you could possibly have an auger pulley that is slightly bent and catching the belt causing the flapping.


Service manual for MTD machines-


http://service.mtdproducts.com/Training_Education/769-09302_medium_frame_snowthrowers.pdf


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## tjoyce81

Thanks for the welcome. I will check the auger pulley, but this only happens when the auger is dis-engaged. When engaged it runs perfect - smooth and strong... I slid the belt off the auger crank pulley and ran the engine. The auger drive pulley (on the crank shaft) looks good and runs just as smooth as the drive crank pulley. 
A miss-alignment makes sense so will check closely...
I do see a belt guard in the service manual - thanks a lot for that! On page 7, figure 2.2. There is not one on my machine - but I did buy it used and it could have been removed. 

Wondering on the belt. Does anyone know the difference in a mtd-954-04050a and a mtd 754-04050a? if any? Is there a slightly shorter belt for these machines? I see a mtd-954-04050 (no letter 'a')...?


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## ST1100A

tjoyce81 said:


> Thanks for the welcome. I will check the auger pulley, but this only happens when the auger is dis-engaged. When engaged it runs perfect - smooth and strong... I slid the belt off the auger crank pulley and ran the engine. The auger drive pulley (on the crank shaft) looks good and runs just as smooth as the drive crank pulley.
> A miss-alignment makes sense so will check closely...
> I do see a belt guard in the service manual - thanks a lot for that! On page 7, figure 2.2. There is not one on my machine - but I did buy it used and it could have been removed.
> 
> Wondering on the belt. Does anyone know the difference in a mtd-954-04050a and a mtd 754-04050a? if any? Is there a slightly shorter belt for these machines? I see a mtd-954-04050 (no letter 'a')...?


That's just an updated number, its the same belt. MTD changed the numbering system from the "7" prefix part number to the "9".


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## 2.137269

tjoyce81 said:


> Thanks for the welcome. I will check the auger pulley, but this only happens when the auger is dis-engaged. When engaged it runs perfect - smooth and strong... I slid the belt off the auger crank pulley and ran the engine. The auger drive pulley (on the crank shaft) looks good and runs just as smooth as the drive crank pulley.
> A miss-alignment makes sense so will check closely...
> I do see a belt guard in the service manual - thanks a lot for that! On page 7, figure 2.2. There is not one on my machine - but I did buy it used and it could have been removed.
> 
> Wondering on the belt. Does anyone know the difference in a mtd-954-04050a and a mtd 754-04050a? if any? Is there a slightly shorter belt for these machines? I see a mtd-954-04050 (no letter 'a')...?


954 is the new belt there is no difference , mtd dose this all the time old number 754 new number 954 ,


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## Oneacer

Maybe a belt guide was omitted in the design, and should have been one in place … ?

I believe all my blowers have some sort of belt guide setup, which prevents belt slack flap as well as keeping it from popping off.


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## JayzAuto1

The belt Cover serves as the belt guide on that machine. It serves 2 purposes... Keeps the belts dry and acts as the belt guide to keep the auger belt from flapping around.

GLuck, Jay


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## orangputeh

there has to be some slack. is the belt jumping off? if the belt is the correct size we would have to eyeball the area to see if something is missing as @oneacer suggested.

can you post a photo?


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## Town

tjoyce81 said:


> Thanks for the welcome. I will check the auger pulley, but this only happens when the auger is dis-engaged. When engaged it runs perfect - smooth and strong... I slid the belt off the auger crank pulley and ran the engine. The auger drive pulley (on the crank shaft) looks good and runs just as smooth as the drive crank pulley.
> A miss-alignment makes sense so will check closely...
> I do see a belt guard in the service manual - thanks a lot for that! On page 7, figure 2.2. There is not one on my machine - but I did buy it used and it could have been removed.
> 
> Wondering on the belt. Does anyone know the difference in a mtd-954-04050a and a mtd 754-04050a? if any? Is there a slightly shorter belt for these machines? I see a mtd-954-04050 (no letter 'a')...?


The purpose of that belt guard is to squeeze the belt slightly so it clears the pulley grooves when belt tension is removed. Without that guard the belt splays out before and after the pulley and can catch the pulley at the top giving a slight driving force and the vibration and belt jumping that happens as a result. The belt guard is positioned slightly less than an 1/8" from the belt on opposite side to tensioner pulley, when the belt is tensioned. When the tension is removed the belt is kept close to the pulley and stays as a rounded shape to clear the whole of the pulley v grooves. The attached pic shows my Ariens belt guard at the top of pic around the pulley. There are many other designs with some using straight rods.

You need to get a new belt guard to correct your problem.


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## tabora

As @*JayzAuto1* said, you need to have the belt cover installed to stop the flapping. It is MTD/Troy-Bilt part number 731-06401 COVER-BELT. Walmart has it for $18.35
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Genuine-OEM-MTD-731-06401-Belt-Cover/528316200


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## SimplicitySolid22

Ummmmm if the Auger is disengaged the belt should flap and vibrate that is normal.....only drive belt should be tight.


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## SimplicitySolid22

See at 7:27


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## tjoyce81

That video is EXACTLY what (I thought) was wrong. But in fact the cover acts as the belt guard - yet it does seem excessive and loud with the cover installed.
I looked close at the cover and it seems worn out where the belt slaps against it, so I will replace it OR I may just modify the existing cover with something more durable - other than a plastic bump...
I also may just install a long bolt into the empty bolt hole in the block - where other models have guards.

Thanks A LOT - to EVERYONE for ALL the information! It has really helped me with (what I thought) was an issue.


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## SimplicitySolid22

what size motor is on your troy????


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## SimplicitySolid22

If 11Hp or greater I believe your belt should be 954-04195A.

Otherwise 954-04050A-Sub 11.


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## Oneacer

@tj,

I would assume you are missing something to the effect of what is showing in Towns post.


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## tjoyce81

It is 10hp. The proper belt is 954-04050A...

@oneacer, 
No, it is not missing a belt guide. There is not one listed for my machine - and the cover acts as the guide and you can see the damage from the belt flapping at idle.
HOWEVER, I found that the cover is listed for various other machines and Other machines HAVE the belt guide that towns mentions - and they are cheap. 
So, instead of modifying anything - I am going to install a new cover AND the belt guide (that was never there)...

Here is the part number for the belt guide. 747-06336


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## Oneacer

Yeah, … also, take a quick look at this guys machine, real similar to yours, and look at his belt guide, which also goes back and attaches at the engine, similar to that one you are showing there in the above post.

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/for...269-procedure-replacing-belts-2007-st724.html


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## tjoyce81

oneacer said:


> Yeah, … also, take a quick look at this guys machine, real similar to yours, and look at his belt guide, which also goes back and attaches at the engine, similar to that one you are showing there in the above post.
> 
> https://www.snowblowerforum.com/for...269-procedure-replacing-belts-2007-st724.html


 Oh yea.. That looks like a better one - but the cover is different and it looks to be a bit too long to fit on my machine. 
When I get my parts I will post the results.. 

Like I mentioned, this is my first snowblower of any kind. I paid $150 for this machine - and I thought I would never say this, but I am almost looking forward to a snowstorm.. 
Thanks again for ALL the info!


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## tjoyce81

*old cover mod*

I received a belt guide that fits perfectly. But when I install the cover, it does not work. I have to get a different cover - that may or may not be available. 
So, I made the following modifications to the old cover. I drilled a 3/8 hole where the belt has worn away, and installed a 
round head 3/8 stainless bolt. It works perfect. The belt does not vibrate or flap around when at idle - and after a few minutes of running the auger, there is no ill effects on the belt itself.


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## JayzAuto1

That's pretty slick......... Another trick I've used when new covers are not available (or quick enough for an impending storm) is to repair/modify the original/worn out cover. I'll cut a side slice from a plastic cap from a can of spray paint with corresponding arc and use a Hot-Melt Glue Gun to secure the slice over the worn out section. It tends to build it out a little more, quieting down the slapping noise, as well as keeping moisture out of any holes in that area,

GLuck, Jay


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## ST1100A

Just hope the belt doesn't make contact with the bolt head, or you will be replacing the belt in a hurry once it gets torn up or burned from friction from hitting the bolt head.
Looking at the picture, it looks like the belt came close to or was hitting the cover where it was repaired with the bolt to plug the hole.


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## tjoyce81

The bolt head actually does contact the belt - but not when the auger is engaged. 
I ran the auger for 5+ minutes with no wear marks on the belt, so it's probably good. Nevertheless, I got an extra belt just to be sure. And of course there is always the dreaded 'shovel' if all else fails... 12"+ on the way, so we'll see what happens....lol


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## 141407

tjoyce81 said:


> The bolt head actually does contact the belt - but not when the auger is engaged.
> I ran the auger for 5+ minutes with no wear marks on the belt, so it's probably good. Nevertheless, I got an extra belt just to be sure. And of course there is always the dreaded 'shovel' if all else fails... 12"+ on the way, so we'll see what happens....lol


Do you have any follow up thoughts to share since using the thrower with the bolt fastener mod? In theory I can't imagine there's any negatives since other blowers use that metal wire to achieve the same thing. So either way metal pushes against the belt during idle to keep it off the pulley and burning up.

FYI I'm in the same situation, my belt cover is burned up good. Hoping to hear from you ^_^


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## Oneacer

The OP last posted over a year ago, probably not even around.

Try a new post ... 

fwiw, I don't think any manufacturer intended for a belt to keep slapping a cover.


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## cpchriste

redwire_bluewire said:


> FYI I'm in the same situation, my belt cover is burned up good. Hoping to hear from you ^_^


I used the other solution mentioned in this thread, a long socket head bolt threaded into the block so the head outer diameter is adjacent to the flapping belt. Worked well. Get fine 5/16 thread to match the Tecumseh block threaded hole. Also use a jam nut to retain the bolt.
I think the other solutions mentioned in this thread will work as well.


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## 141407

I ended up using an elevator bolt. If done again I would probably choose the rounded bolts with the allen head like others did for simplicity sake. My install was tougher because I had to prevent the elevator bolt from spinning, which is why I had another hole and slot. I sanded the flat side to make sure nothing would scratch up the belt. I may fill the second hole with hot glue but I don't care right now.

Another thing I did was shave down the peaks a tad because the flat metal sits on top of the raised plastic. This was my attempt to dial in the amount the belt was being pushed in to factory specs. The bolt was cut and made flush with the nut so the chute wouldn't push against the bolt. It's a tight fit.

What I never realized is how warm/hot the pulley shaft gets during normal operation. This warms up the rubber belt and makes them sticky. Or, my belt is still rubbing even with the mod... I'll follow up at the end of the season or next.

The machine was given to me so I'm not upset things needed attention due to lack of maintenance.


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