# Auto-Turn Revisited



## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

I have been hearing Snow Blower owners frustrated with their Auto-Turn 
machines pulling them away from driving in a straight line. 
I own an Auto-Turn machine. 
So far, (knock on wood), I never had the slightest problem with the Auto –Turn feature 
pulling left or right when I wanted it to go straight.

After checking with the display at the dealer, and watching the Auto-Turn 
video over and over, it is clear that a properly working Auto-Turn unit cannot 
drive just one wheel, and consequently forcing a blower to unwilling turn. The 
unit engages both the wheels, or it doesn’t engage any wheels at all. If it 
does engage just one wheel, it is defective. This isn’t a big deal, just get 
the small unit replaced. The dealer could replace it faster than I can type 
this post. At this time all Auto-Turn units should be under warranty.

Now let’s revisit snow blowers in general. 

Most machines contact the surface at four points. Two of these points are not 
wheels at all, but really just a couple of legs holding up half of the 
machine. In theory these two points “should not move at all”, just like your 
kitchen table shouldn’t move. If you push your kitchen table out on your 
driveway, does it slide perfectly straight? Now enter a fifth intermittent 
point of contact, known as the Scraper Bar. This bar is very similar to wide 
24”-36” scraping type hand shovel. My wide hand shovels certainly do pull left 
and right for me when I’m scraping unevenly packed snow or ice. I would not 
expect my Scraper Bar to be any different. My older strait axle “wheeled“ 
machine’s scraper bar pulled left and right when hitting solid ice and other 
fixed obstacles, just like all “wheeled” snow blowers do. If they didn’t pull 
unevenly sometimes, we could send them down the driveway by themselves. 
How far can your car go down the highway with your hands off the wheel? 
It’s called, being an “operator”.

Blowers were designed to blow snow not "excavate" our driveways or even scrape ice.

I watched a city grader type plow go down the street the other day with his 
blade at angle. His front wheels turned full to the right. To his frustration, 
his machine was veering to the left. His million dollar machine wasn’t 
tracking in a straight line. Defective??? I think not. It just needed an 
experienced operator to understand what was going on at the ground level.

The bottom line here is this. “Wheeled” Snow Blowers are asked to Scrap, 
Slide, Scratch, Plow, Pry up ice, Chip ice, Hit ice walls, hit edges of 
concrete, Dig into dirt, grass, gravel, and some more, that I am forgetting. 
These are called “snow blowers” for a reason. All these extra tasks that we 
assume should happen without an operator input isn’t under its job 
description.

The thought to remember here is that the front end of a blower usually 
doesn’t have wheels and really isn’t suppose move at all, much less guaranteed 
to travel perfectly straight on all surfaces.

Now my observation is that, Auto-Turn itself has not caused my machines to 
track less straight than any other blower with its bucket scrapping on the 
surface. It’s the bucket grabbing and pulling that will occasionally cause the 
operator to input and not the driving wheels. In fact this Auto-Turn machine 
is the easiest handling snow blower I have ever used.

Most machines need an operator. I accept that responsibility.

These are just my personal thoughts. I don’t expect everyone to agree with or 
understand them.

***************** New Edit on 1/20/14 ***************

Quote from MovingSnow.com

*In summary, there are no problems with the new differential. The problems are “normal” issues that you will have with all snow blowers. Ariens has not seen any actual malfunctioning differentials. *

*************************************************


*Disagreement is many times a good thing.  
That’s how we improve on life in general.  
It also keeps things from getting to boring. 

Thanks for reading my rant. 
Ken


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

My post above has put in some external links that can be seen by some browsers. I didn't have anything to do with these external links. I'm sorry about that.
The formatting also went haywire for some reason after I hit the submit button. 
Now it also won't let me edit it. ):

(Later)
Finally"... I am able edit some of the post to get some of the formatting back.  



Ken


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## jth1959 (Jan 3, 2014)

ken53, I agree with the majority of your post. I think the problem is determining which machines have defective auto-turn as Ariens stated to my dealer there are no known issues with auto-turn. I'm not sure the dealers, or at least my dealer, fully understand how it works. The way they determined mine was fine was to say it appears to function like the others in our showroom. I am coming to the conclusion that it is the unevenness of my driveway that is the problem and not the auto-turn technology. But whichever way the auto-turn drives the wheels, my blower is difficult to keep straight and that was never a problem with my previous blower.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

jth1959 said:


> ken53, I agree with the majority of your post. I think the problem is determining which machines have defective auto-turn as Ariens stated to my dealer there are no known issues with auto-turn. I'm not sure the dealers, or at least my dealer, fully understand how it works. The way they determined mine was fine was to say it appears to function like the others in our showroom. I am coming to the conclusion that it is the unevenness of my driveway that is the problem and not the auto-turn technology. But whichever way the auto-turn drives the wheels, my blower is difficult to keep straight and that was never a problem with my previous blower.


I feel your pain. You are caught between a rock and a hard spot. It would not be the first time a dealer drops the ball and loses a customer forever. I happen to have done business with a locale Honda dealer that is a disgrace to the Honda name also. It is unfortunate these dealers aren't more closely watched by the manufacturer. I wish you the best of luck in your decision going forward.

Ken


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## docfletcher (Nov 28, 2013)

At the risk of being redundant I will just say this... On the street, with it's very good condition blacktop my pro 28 tracks perfect. That is to say it does not wander noticeably. The skids slide without incident. On my drive however the story is different. It seems one skid or the other encounters a resistance which causes the auto to feature to disengage drive. On my downhill driveway the sheer weight of the machine causes a freewheeling pivoting action left or right. This happens several times in a matter of a few feet and is quite irksome. 

So on a positive note Ariens is having the dealer place Ariens plastic skids on the machine. The dealer says they slide easier and should alleviate the problem. 

I would be remiss if I did not mention the dealer has the scrapper adjusted 
flush to the garage floor, so when the skids are flush down on the floor so is the scrapper. Which suggests to me that the scrapper might be the cause of the problem in my case. The dealer will call me when they want to come make the changes. Then we will see.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

docfletcher said:


> At the risk of being redundant I will just say this... On the street, with it's very good condition blacktop my pro 28 tracks perfect. That is to say it does not wander noticeably. The skids slide without incident. On my drive however the story is different. It seems one skid or the other encounters a resistance which causes the auto to feature to disengage drive. On my downhill driveway the sheer weight of the machine causes a freewheeling pivoting action left or right. This happens several times in a matter of a few feet and is quite irksome.
> 
> So on a positive note Ariens is having the dealer place Ariens plastic skids on the machine. The dealer says they slide easier and should alleviate the problem.
> 
> ...


I think the scraper actually scraping the surface is a bad idea. This could work in only a few perfect locations. Certainly no surface that I ever had the luxury of having.

Maybe I am wrong, but when I want a perfectly clean driveway, I need to go over my driveway with a good scraping hand shovel after the machine is done. I find it hard to find the perfect hand shovel to scrape clean.

I think one of the reasons for adjustable skids is that some surfaces that need the scraper bar to be higher than the standard 1/8". In spring when I clear my back lawn to get a jump on the growing season, I need to raise my blower front end as high as I can. It just stands to reason that some surfaces need to have more clearance than 1/8 of an inch. It is not reasonable to have the scraper bar excavate my driveway or my back yard.

My last home had a rough driveway and needed my scraper off the surface 1/4 to 1/2 inch to not catch on any high spots.

Maybe your driveway needs to have the scraper bar raised just enough to clear its roughest area.

You could just throw in the towel and go for a non auto-turn machine but you might be missing out on a good thing if it's only problem is, that the small Auto-Turn unit is defective.

Keep us up to date. 

Ken


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

jth1959 said:


> ken53, I agree with the majority of your post. I think the problem is determining which machines have defective auto-turn as Ariens stated to my dealer there are no known issues with auto-turn. I'm not sure the dealers, or at least my dealer, fully understand how it works. The way they determined mine was fine was to say it appears to function like the others in our showroom. I am coming to the conclusion that it is the unevenness of my driveway that is the problem and not the auto-turn technology. But whichever way the auto-turn drives the wheels, my blower is difficult to keep straight and that was never a problem with my previous blower.


One more thing. Be a little skeptical. Some dealers claim to be in contact with Ariens a little more often than they really are. Use your best judgment. Spend some time playing with that Auto-Turn sample display at your dealer. All of a sudden it will be perfectly clear how it works. Also watch that video over and over on You Tube. When it pops in to your head, you will be amazed how simple and straight forward the concept is.

You might miss out on a good machine. It would be a shame if all you needed was that unit replaced.

This type of stuff is never fun. I have been in your situation with other things. I kind of sucks. ):

Ken


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## docfletcher (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks Ken, I appreciate your chiming in with your thoughts on the matter as many times as you have. There's no way I could live with a 1/2" high scrapper, though 1/8th would certainly be acceptable. I'm starting to think what I really need is true self powered single stage paddle blower. One that does not depend on the paddles. Now that's a fine idea!


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

docfletcher said:


> Thanks Ken, I appreciate your chiming in with your thoughts on the matter as many times as you have. There's no way I could live with a 1/2" high scrapper, though 1/8th would certainly be acceptable. I'm starting to think what I really need is true self powered single stage paddle blower. One that does not depend on the paddles. Now that's a fine idea!


If I had the space, a sweeper with the nice big brushes would work real well to follow up behind the blower. A single stage would be a great idea for many including me. 

If I could do over I would get a track driven blower. With tracks, the scraper would just level off or go over most of what ever is in its way. 

Ken


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## liftoff1967 (Jan 15, 2014)

All I can say is up till this past October I was running an Ariens deluxe 27 (with the extra lever to engage or dis engage the 2 wheel drive if you will) I had my scraper bar gapped to a thickness of .063" and never had any issues with that rig wondering on the driveway.

Now, I have the deluxe 30 with auto turn, scraper bar on the first snow blow was gapped to .125" and run and the same driveway. i had to keep tight in the saddle to help keep it from wondering at will.

Once the weather warms up, I will go out and re gap and realign the frame to the bucket as per the Ariens video, and see what happens.

Just saying is all, not trying to stir the pot. I'm to new here to do that, haha.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

liftoff1967 said:


> All I can say is up till this past October I was running an Ariens deluxe 27 (with the extra lever to engage or dis engage the 2 wheel drive if you will) I had my scraper bar gapped to a thickness of .063" and never had any issues with that rig wondering on the driveway.
> 
> Now, I have the deluxe 30 with auto turn, scraper bar on the first snow blow was gapped to .125" and run and the same driveway. i had to keep tight in the saddle to help keep it from wondering at will.
> 
> ...


 I don't doubt what you are saying, although if you check on how Auto-Turn works, you will see that Auto-Turn can't possibly be the cause of your blower mishandling, unless of course you have a defective Auto-Turn unit.

Ken


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## loneraider (Oct 26, 2013)

I have the older deluxe 28 model with the lever on the left side to engage or dis-engage the drive for turning. Works like a charm all the time everytime. If you add the melt buddy you get the matching lever for the right side also. I can only imagine the frustration of wanting to go straight
and your machine decides to turn..!!. I'm a bit old school and I still like to have the control of the machinery I'm using.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

loneraider said:


> I have the older deluxe 28 model with the lever on the left side to engage or dis-engage the drive for turning. Works like a charm all the time everytime. If you add the melt buddy you get the matching lever for the right side also. I can only imagine the frustration of wanting to go straight
> and your machine decides to turn..!!. I'm a bit old school and I still like to have the control of the machinery I'm using.


Thanks for the reply. 
I couldn't agree with you more. Old school is most often simple. If you check my posts, I am a big fan of simple machines. The fewer the parts the fewer the problems.  
For todays world, Auto-Turn is really comparatively simple. Not as simple as your axle's design, but still not a high tech assembly with a lot of parts.

My early 90s ST824 had the knob on the axle to lock it like a strait axle, or unlock it for one wheel drive. 
Possibly my axle with the locking knob may have had the same workings inside as your lever does. The lever sounds like an easier way to operate it, rather then having to reach down by the wheel like I had to. 
It worked fine for 20 years and the new owner is still using it. Ariens had many excellent drive axles over 50 years, as you may already know. Ariens axles is just one of the main reasons that Ariens has such good sales early on. 

Any machine with an axle causing unwanted turning should be returned to the dealer, or repaired. This assuming the owner likes the blower overall. I would never keep a machine that the axle would steer it where I didn't intend it to go.

Enjoy your machine, it was made when workers where proud of what they made. 

Ken


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## loneraider (Oct 26, 2013)

Thanks Ken
I love my Ariens deluxe 28. I bought it used with less than 
20 hours on it. Not a mark on it when I picked it up west of Toronto.
Its always garaged kept & I have added heated grips, Led lights and also the melt buddy plus I installed dual wheels in the front in place of the skids.
I like the wheels,i have the scrapper bar 1/8 to 1/4 and its all good.
Hope we get more snow & i'll take some more video.
Dave


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

Put me and my 2014 P24 on the no problemo side of the ledger.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

loneraider said:


> Thanks Ken
> I love my Ariens deluxe 28. I bought it used with less than
> 20 hours on it. Not a mark on it when I picked it up west of Toronto.
> Its always garaged kept & I have added heated grips, Led lights and also the melt buddy plus I installed dual wheels in the front in place of the skids.
> ...


 Thanks a lot for the pictures. Pictures are always fun and helpful to look at. 

I too find it easy to like my Ariens, past and present. They do so much work for such a long time, and need so little in return. Even the purchase price although not cheap, but still way cheaper when comparing to some of the other machines.

I like your wheels up front. I often thought about trying them. Also your machine looks to be in excellent condition and well maintained. You found yourself a winner. Take good care of it, and you can pass it down to your great grand kids some day. 

Ken


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

Blue Hill said:


> Put me and my 2014 P24 on the no problemo side of the ledger.


Your name was already there.  

Thanks Larry

Ken


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## tonysak (Dec 24, 2013)

Ken, what is your affiliation with Ariens? Are you a dealer? I have never seen a consumer so adamant about defending a product, then again a snowblower. 

The machines should be designed for real world conditions. Most people don't have perfect driveways and there seems to be a lot of complaints everywhere. So much so ariens made that adjusting video. The videos make it look like the wheels are powered, and the term "auto turn" sure implies that once engaged the unit turns itself. I know if I bought one for the auto turn feature, I would expect 1 powered wheel to turn the thing. A quick call to ariens tech support could answer this question. Either way something can't be right. It seems to be a design limitation for this many people having problems with it. I wonder if adding a trigger to future units would make it less problematic. It seems people with the larger machines (28"+) have more trouble. Maybe due to the extra weight. 

I'm of the thinking that the scraper bar should almost drag on the asphalt. I would rather replace the bar more often and have the driveway scraped clean than go back over the driveway with a shovel. I do have a new driveway though...


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

tonysak said:


> Ken, what is your affiliation with Ariens? Are you a dealer? I have never seen a consumer so adamant about defending a product, then again a snowblower.
> 
> The machines should be designed for real world conditions. Most people don't have perfect driveways and there seems to be a lot of complaints everywhere. So much so ariens made that adjusting video. The videos make it look like the wheels are powered, and the term "auto turn" sure implies that once engaged the unit turns itself. I know if I bought one for the auto turn feature, I would expect 1 powered wheel to turn the thing. A quick call to ariens tech support could answer this question. Either way something can't be right. It seems to be a design limitation for this many people having problems with it. I wonder if adding a trigger to future units would make it less problematic. It seems people with the larger machines (28"+) have more trouble. Maybe due to the extra weight.
> 
> I'm of the thinking that the scraper bar should almost drag on the asphalt. I would rather replace the bar more often and have the driveway scraped clean than go back over the driveway with a shovel. I do have a new driveway though...





You need to read all my posts carefully so you can extinguish your personal concerns, that I might be an Ariens employee or dealer.

My original post is pretty clear that I believe that snow blowers are not primarily meant to be plows, ice scrapers, or excavating machines. I feel pretty adamant about that.

You mentioned "many" people are having problems with Auto-Turn. I'm sorry, I just don't agree with the term "many". I don't see it. "A few" might be a better description.

The wider the scraping plate the more leverage and effect it has against the control the operator would have. This goes with out saying and doesn't need to be discussed.

I would rather not take on the burden to explain Auto-Turn to you, as you are not having issues with it and don't need any help.

I leave you with this. 
Study how Auto-Turn works, and then post a new thread explaining to all readers, how Auto-Turn can be blamed for unwanted steering. 
Also explain how Auto-Turn can drive one wheel while the other is free. 

I and possibly others as well, will be gladly looking forward to your post and learning something about Auto-Turn that we may be missing.


Ken


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## celltech (Nov 8, 2013)

I would like to know how to disable it. Other that the auto turn issue I love my new Ariens. It's a beast.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

celltech said:


> I would like to know how to disable it. Other that the auto turn issue I love my new Ariens. It's a beast.


 I don't think there is a proper way to disable it. I think a welder would easily do the job for you.

Let us know how it handles after you disable it.
I will be anxiously waiting to here your results.

Ken


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

*A must read...*

Here is a link that has been posted a few times already but deserves another post.


Problems With Ariens Auto-Turn Snow Blowers? - MovingSnow.com


Ken


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## tonysak (Dec 24, 2013)

ken53 said:


> You need to read all my posts carefully so you can extinguish your personal concerns, that I might be an Ariens employee or dealer.
> 
> My original post is pretty clear that I believe that snow blowers are not primarily meant to be plows, ice scrapers, or excavating machines. I feel pretty adamant about that.
> 
> ...


When I say many I am also referring to other forums and online retail website reviews that I have read while considering purchasing the technology. And input from my dealer who offers free pick up and delivery. I'm not looking to trash the brand and have owned a 36" 15hp in the past. I do not have experience with auto turn. I'm just looking for the easiest way to snow-blowing so I am following the threads. I am interested in where the problem lies with people having issues as I am still interested in the 32" hydro pro track. With that being said I will get off your thread.


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## fishrman (Oct 19, 2013)

jth1959 said:


> ken53, I agree with the majority of your post. I think the problem is determining which machines have defective auto-turn as Ariens stated to my dealer there are no known issues with auto-turn. I'm not sure the dealers, or at least my dealer, fully understand how it works. The way they determined mine was fine was to say it appears to function like the others in our showroom. I am coming to the conclusion that it is the unevenness of my driveway that is the problem and not the auto-turn technology. But whichever way the auto-turn drives the wheels, my blower is difficult to keep straight and that was never a problem with my previous blower.


I tend to wonder if they were tested on the avg. uneven driveway or packed ice and snow situations.


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## fishrman (Oct 19, 2013)

ken53 said:


> Thanks a lot for the pictures. Pictures are always fun and helpful to look at.
> 
> I too find it easy to like my Ariens, past and present. They do so much work for such a long time, and need so little in return. Even the purchase price although not cheap, but still way cheaper when comparing to some of the other machines.
> 
> ...


Speaking of wheels, I ran into these on a site and wonder if they may be a help or make it worse.


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

ken53 said:


> Here is a link that has been posted a few times already but deserves another post.
> 
> 
> Problems With Ariens Auto-Turn Snow Blowers? - MovingSnow.com
> ...


They say ignorance is bliss. Before I bought my 2014 P24, all of my snow was relocated by a long line of various types of shovels. . I went into powered snow removal with no preconceived notions of how it should work, other than it should take snow from point A and move it to point B. Toolbox Hero's article on moving snow.com would seem to bear that out. If I had no prior knowledge about steering a snowblower to "unlearn", maybe it made it easier for me. For what it's worth, I find it easier a lot of the time to turn my machine around at the end of a row, by releasing the drive altogether and just letting the machine pivot. One wheel turns forward and the other turns backwards. It works good with a 24" machine anyway. Toolbox Hero also mentions fisherman's issue of premature skid wear in his article.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

tonysak said:


> When I say many I am also referring to other forums and online retail website reviews that I have read while considering purchasing the technology. And input from my dealer who offers free pick up and delivery. I'm not looking to trash the brand and have owned a 36" 15hp in the past. I do not have experience with auto turn. I'm just looking for the easiest way to snow-blowing so I am following the threads. I am interested in where the problem lies with people having issues as I am still interested in the 32" hydro pro track. With that being said I will get off your thread.


Thanks for your reply. I really do respect anyone researching before they buy. I try to do the same.

The handling problem that some are having is not imagined and is real to each owner. I don't doubt that some are having difficulties in going straight on certain surfaces. I think I'm misunderstood in that aspect.

What I am convinced of, is it is caused by various situations unique to the individual and surface, but one of which, is not caused by a healthy Auto-Turn unit. The Auto-Turn unit is misunderstood and is real easy escape goat. So... handling problems, yes... but caused by a healthy Auto-Turn, no.

FWIW, I did spend 10 minutes testing an Pro 28 Hydro with Auto-Turn on dry blacktop. It turned easier than any other Track machine I have tried. It turned like it was not in gear at all. I'm not sure I would say it turned easy, because don't think any track machine turns what I consider easy. I am not a big fan of Hydro walk behind machines because the alternatives are proven and so much cheaper and cheaper to repair. I have hydro on my walk behind Honda lawn mower. It is not a big deal either way. My next lawn mower won't have hydro. Bigger riding machines, yes Hydro is the way to go.

I went with platinum line "only" because I preferred the heavy front end balance verses the Pro line. Check this balance thing out. It makes a difference.

I hope this helps.

Edit:
Hey... maybe the new layout with more weight on the bucket is causing more grabbing and catching of the front end. "Just a thought."

Ken


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

fishrman said:


> Speaking of wheels, I ran into these on a site and wonder if they may be a help or make it worse.


 Thanks fisherman. I never did see these. When my poly skids wear out I will check these out.

These odd wheels worked best for me years ago. They didn't clime up like skids do.


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## jth1959 (Jan 3, 2014)

I picked up my 2014 Deluxe 28+ from my dealer today. They repaired the broken bolt but it required a little more surgery than simply extracting the bolt. They could not get the bolt out cleanly and could not re-tap either so a nut was welded to the frame for the new bolt and painted. I was concerned on how it would look but other than a different bolt head it's not noticeable. The paint was required on the inside and was not required on the outside. You should also know that Ariens is fully aware of this forum and peoples issues/concerns with auto-turn as they contacted me directly. They are genuinely concerned that I be fully satisfied with my blower and subsequent repair. They have started a file on my machine to make sure the repair does not compromise the machine over time. My dealer also completely adjusted my machine from scratch and I ran it a bit on his uneven parking lot and it seemed the operate better. I'll wait for the next snow to come to any conclusions. I have also ordered the larger skids and will compare those to the oem skids. 

I am becoming convinced the auto-turn technology is operating as designed and the erratic behavior is due to the terrain. I think dealers and Ariens need to make purchasers aware that auto-turn may behave erratically under certain conditions so purchasers can make an informed decision on whether or not auto-turn is for them.


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## mkd (Dec 31, 2013)

jth! i agree with you! my new 921030 28" wide is no more erratic in terrain situations than my 1985 924 was. i like to go two paths wider than the driveway plus a 4 path wide run out to the backyard and in the grass the 921030 acts no different than the old machine i was using. the armorskids did help however they make the blower teeter totter some on uneven ground.


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## jth1959 (Jan 3, 2014)

mkd said:


> jth! i agree with you! my new 921030 28" wide is no more erratic in terrain situations than my 1985 924 was. i like to go two paths wider than the driveway plus a 4 path wide run out to the backyard and in the grass the 921030 acts no different than the old machine i was using. the armorskids did help however they make the blower teeter totter some on uneven ground.


My 921035 works great on the lawn and parts of my driveway but where it uneven especially downhill it's a wrestling match. Now if they could just come up with auto-turn with a trigger to lock it out then they will truly have something.


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## fronos4 (Jan 29, 2011)

I agree with the majority of what ken53 stated, as well as those who have this feature who don't have any issues and have chimed in here and on other threads. My only advice, if you're frustrated after only a few times using your Ariens ATC/Auto-Turn, give it a chance and make the appropriate adjustments mechanically (i.e.; shave plate height, skids,etc.)/operationally. I've included two responses: 

*Short Version*
I cleared any operational knowledge of my previous snowblower and preconceived notions/expectations on how my new Ariens should worked and learned how I needed operate it. 

*Long Version*
I don't have the Auto-Turn, but I do have the ATC and real-world experience with this "triggerless" traction system. It seems as though concerns are coming from new Auto-Turn owners who were either "used too" posi-drive systems or have "preconceived" notions on how the system should work. I would know because I was a frustrated Ariens owner when I first purchased my Platinum 30 3 years ago. I thought, this is going to be way better than my posi-drive system I no longer had to wrestle with my snowblower to turn. The first few times I used it I was exhausted having to wrestle with it trying keep it straight on hard packed snow, uneven pavement, etc. I regretted buying it, who would of thought my hand-me-down MTD that cost $700 at the time was "easier" to use than my new +$1500 Ariens, I was furious. 

Fast forward today, I couldn't be happier; so what changed... 1) there was a learning curve, I stopped thinking and expecting it to handle like my previous snowblower and started learning how I needed to operate it. 2) I installed poly skids and adjusted the shave-plate height to 1/8". I found that the steel skids created too much friction - Ariens if you're listening, I would recommend poly skids as standard. 

Some may agree or disagree, and insist you shouldn't have to "learn" how to use it - it's just a snowblower! Everyone is entitled to their perspective, opinion, etc. My simple response is - you do! So far it's worked for me, at least. For example, how many of you used a Zero-Turn, were you able to mow a straight line the first few times/passes? If so, your an exception to the rule. So was it the mower or the operator? How can you explain why you can now zip through your property straight lines and all - you learned how to use it. You get the point... I'm not saying there won't be environmental factors that may cause handling issues, but with experience you learn how to compensate for these during operation. I've used my machine now on smooth/uneven concrete, grass, gravel, smooth/uneven asphalt, don't have any issues but I also don't expect the machine to behave the same on all surfaces and adjust my operation accordingly. 

But you have the ATC not the Auto-Turn, you have no idea! Well the concept in approaching operation remains the same. And the only difference I've observed and tested at the local dealer is that the Auto-Turn provides more "drive" to the outer wheel when turning allowing the machine to pivot automatically which feels more like a trigger-type system, where as, the ATC relies more on the operator to pivot the machine.

Anyway, there's my take on the whole thing...


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

jth1959 said:


> I picked up my 2014 Deluxe 28+ from my dealer today. They repaired the broken bolt but it required a little more surgery than simply extracting the bolt. They could not get the bolt out cleanly and could not re-tap either so a nut was welded to the frame for the new bolt and painted. I was concerned on how it would look but other than a different bolt head it's not noticeable. The paint was required on the inside and was not required on the outside. You should also know that Ariens is fully aware of this forum and peoples issues/concerns with auto-turn as they contacted me directly. They are genuinely concerned that I be fully satisfied with my blower and subsequent repair. They have started a file on my machine to make sure the repair does not compromise the machine over time. My dealer also completely adjusted my machine from scratch and I ran it a bit on his uneven parking lot and it seemed the operate better. I'll wait for the next snow to come to any conclusions. I have also ordered the larger skids and will compare those to the oem skids.
> 
> I am becoming convinced the auto-turn technology is operating as designed and the erratic behavior is due to the terrain. I think dealers and Ariens need to make purchasers aware that auto-turn may behave erratically under certain conditions so purchasers can make an informed decision on whether or not auto-turn is for them.


I have my fingers crossed for you. I hope it works out. Its new, it shouldn't be just OK. It should make you smile every time you use it. 

Ken


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## docfletcher (Nov 28, 2013)

jth1959, I think the auto turn requires the operator to make the turn. At least that's what was explained to me after a post I put up. On my downhill drive when the skid got caught the blower freewheeled into a turn. The pro 28 is quite heavy and momentum plus the weight on a hill makes it seem powered.


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## jth1959 (Jan 3, 2014)

docfletcher said:


> jth1959, I think the auto turn requires the operator to make the turn. At least that's what was explained to me after a post I put up. On my downhill drive when the skid got caught the blower freewheeled into a turn. The pro 28 is quite heavy and momentum plus the weight on a hill makes it seem powered.


That's my perception also. On one side of my driveway the side is slightly higher than two feet in so there is considerable more friction on the left skid and that's the direction it wants to go. I have found the blower behaves better when I use a slower speed as it seems to power it down the driveway rather than freewheel. Need more snow storms to continue up the learning curve.


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## kellidotca (Dec 29, 2013)

Now that i've had a chance to really use my snowblower, I can honestly say that the auto-turn feature has been great. The learning curve for me was keeping it straight, not how to turn it.. and once i realized the nuances in doing so, it was really easy.

For instance, when it wants to turn because of bumps or divots, pulling back on the one side rather than forward on the other was much easier.. now it comes naturally. 

A couple of weeks ago we had above freezing temps followed by below freezing, shortly after. It did horrid things to my driveway. We've had significant snow over top of that mess and my snowblower has handled it amazingly well with very little effort on my part.

The first couple of times I finished with sore arms.. maybe my own fault for over-steering it? But now that I've gotten used to handling the machine, it really is easy on all conditions of base snow.

I'm really happy with it.. especially when there aren't newspapers hiding in snow drifts 

Oh.. right.. the turning itself has been the best part.. it really is easy to hoist that thing around for me. I have a very narrow spot between my deck stairs and my driveway and it hasn't been an issue at all. Very happy I went with the auto-turn.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

kellidotca said:


> Now that i've had a chance to really use my snowblower, I can honestly say that the auto-turn feature has been great. The learning curve for me was keeping it straight, not how to turn it.. and once i realized the nuances in doing so, it was really easy.
> 
> For instance, when it wants to turn because of bumps or divots, pulling back on the one side rather than forward on the other was much easier.. now it comes naturally.
> 
> ...


 Hi
Your pulling back slightly on the machine makes sense, although I never thought about it until you just now mentioned it. 

The more "pressure against" or load against the forward driving "main (center) gear" in the Auto-Turn unit causes the left and right axle gears to lock themselves in place more positively. Boring stuff 

You did teach me something most valuable. My blower makes a poor paper shredder.  I had no idea it could jam so tightly. I will certainly watch out for those papers in the future. 

Ken


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

I just would like to place a note "here" that I edited my original post with an addition. 

So you don't have to go back and find the original post. Here is what I added.

_Quote from MovingSnow.com_

_*In summary, there are no problems with the new differential. The problems are “normal” issues that you will have with all snow blowers. Ariens has not seen any actual malfunctioning differentials. *_

*.*
*.*


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## Robmac5 (Oct 30, 2020)

I have an Ariens pro 28, 2015, it is set up properly, the auto steer is terrible. I have tried the nylon skids, made adjustments, leveled. The system is just plain overly sensitive. Recently my dealer contacted Ariens and toled me I can replace the differential to the newer version for $135 dollars worth of parts. I did have him order the part and as we speak I am waiting to receive it. I am really upset with Ariens because I made a few calls to them directly and never got them to admit to having made design changes to their original auto steer. I really think they don’t want to spend the money fixing all those crap early version auto steer machines they sold.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Robmac5 said:


> I have an Ariens pro 28, 2015, it is set up properly, the auto steer is terrible. I have tried the nylon skids, made adjustments, leveled. The system is just plain overly sensitive. Recently my dealer contacted Ariens and toled me I can replace the differential to the newer version for $135 dollars worth of parts. I did have him order the part and as we speak I am waiting to receive it. I am really upset with Ariens because I made a few calls to them directly and never got them to admit to having made design changes to their original auto steer. I really think they don’t want to spend the money fixing all those crap early version auto steer machines they sold.


I have the plastic Ariens skid shoes and have had no problems with Auto-Turn. I did try the Ariens steel skid shoes and found high friction that prevented a smooth glide and there was straight line problems on uneven surfaces. 

In the spring (2020) noticed some grease at the seals for the axle shafts on my Auto-Turn. I took the unit apart and the grease was minimal and caked on. Such a nice unit in the way it is engineered, so very simple and effective. Put it back together with new grease and it performed much the same as before but no clicking on a dry driveway. Purchased a new Auto-Turn and installed it, so my rebuilt is a spare (new seals are not available). The new Auto-Turn performs the same way as my re-built Auto-Turn, no clicking, on dry and smooth asphalt driveway.


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## Robmac5 (Oct 30, 2020)

Interesting, while waiting for my new auto turn I also took the old one apart, it had dried up white lithium grease in it so I cleaned all parts an re assembled using some good light synthetic bicycle grease. The o rings should slide now ! Seems to work well but won’t be sure till we get snow.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Here is Town's post detailing his rebuild, (clean & lube) it's excellent and worth a look. Auto Turn


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## Robmac5 (Oct 30, 2020)

ken53 said:


> I have been hearing Snow Blower owners frustrated with their Auto-Turn
> machines pulling them away from driving in a straight line.
> I own an Auto-Turn machine.
> So far, (knock on wood), I never had the slightest problem with the Auto –Turn feature
> ...


Great discussion, but I have run 6 different older Ariens machines before easy turn and never had pulling problems even with the posi button unlocked. When posi was locked hard to steer but no pulling.


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

I have a 2015 Deluxe 28 and last winter was my first season with it. It was in excellent shape when I looked at it, and after reading all about Auto-Turn, I purchased it anyway but with a little trepidation. I followed the alignment recommendations from Ariens and was conscientious about keeping the tire pressure equal. The result was that the machine operated exactly as advertised and I couldn't be happier with it. 

I will also say that my driveway is smooth, but not a billiard table and my front walkway heaves quite a bit. Therefore, you can put me down in the "Satisfied Customer" column.


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