# Using Tru Fuel



## dhoward750 (Oct 28, 2019)

I had my six year old Ariens Platinum 24 blower tuned up this past summer. It was in pretty good shape. The tech who serviced it drained the gas and added some tru fuel and told me to not add any more reg gas until I was ready to use it for the first snow. I kind of like what I have been reading about the 4 cycle tru fuel and was wondering if there is any reason, besides cost, of using it exclusively. Ignoring cost does anyone do this and not use regular gas? Are there any cons of doing it. I can get a case of 6 32 oz cans at Home Depot for $40. I am not sure of the snow blowers gas tank capacity. I think it is less then a 1/2 gallon.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

What is that, like 14.00 a gallon with tax? I have no need, nor a desire for that.

There is quite a few posts on gas, and seems that most use regular gas with additives in it.

Some drain and run the system dry for off season.

Me personally, I just park my equipment in off season with its treated reg. gas, and might fire it up if I think of it. I have never had a fuel system problem in all my equipment doing it this way. I have on the other hand repaired many units with gunked up carburetors from people using the ethanol gas with no additives and letting them sit for very long periods.

My generator gets fired up periodically, and it is about time to drain that tank, and put in fresh reg. with my additives.


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

I don't see a reason to spend the extra money. Personally, I just stabilize any gas I buy for lawn / snow equipment immediately when I buy it, whether it has ethanol or not. At the end of the season for each piece of equipment, I fire it up, close the fuel shutoff, wait a few seconds and then stall it out with a spray of fogging oil into the carb. Then top off the fuel tank. That draws down the amount of fuel in the float bowl a bit, coats everything in fogging oil and minimizes the airspace in the fuel tank for condensation to occur. 

I've never had anything not run just fine on the 6+ month old fuel at the start of the next season. Occasionally some equipment will need a short shot of carb cleaner into the intake before it'll start the first time depending on how well coated the spark plug, etc. is with fogging oil. But once it fires, it just burns off with a little smoke and then everything is good to go.


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Price is the only reason not to use it on the reg.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

do you have access to ethanol free gas around you? that is usually the best and cheapest way go if it is available. it is still recommended that you drain it and run it dry at the end of the season but at least it will still usually keeps your carb protected. i would assume tru fuel likely has the same issue as the ethanol free. looses it flammability with age which makes it a bit harder to start an engine but at least it won't clog up a carb if left unchecked.


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## nafterclifen (Oct 14, 2015)

dhoward750 said:


> I had my six year old Ariens Platinum 24 blower tuned up this past summer. It was in pretty good shape. The tech who serviced it drained the gas and added some tru fuel and told me to not add any more reg gas until I was ready to use it for the first snow. I kind of like what I have been reading about the 4 cycle tru fuel and was wondering if there is any reason, besides cost, of using it exclusively. Ignoring cost does anyone do this and not use regular gas? Are there any cons of doing it. I can get a case of 6 32 oz cans at Home Depot for $40. I am not sure of the snow blowers gas tank capacity. I think it is less then a 1/2 gallon.


I used to stabilize all my fuel with Lucas Ethanol Fuel Conditioner (https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/safeguard-ethanol-fuel-conditioner-with-stabilizers) but I stopped about a year ago. I'm now able to get 89-octane ethanol free fuel at one of my local Wawa so that is what I use exclusively now. It's only .25 more per gallon, super reasonable.

$2.99 = 89 ethanol
$3.24 = 89 non-ethanol

And yes, I've tested both fuels for ethanol using a "Briggs & Stratton 795161 Gasohol Tester." Ethanol free does indeed appear to be ethanol free.


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

On a side note, project farm on YouTube did a test with different gas types and Lucas stabilizer


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

e.fisher26 said:


> On a side note, project farm on YouTube did a test with different gas types and Lucas stabilizer


that is how i learned the gas seems to loose some of its flammability with age whether it is ethanol free or not but ethanol free gas seems to do a bit better than the rest not loosing whatever evaporates or separates with the ethanol.


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

I just picked up 10 gallons of VP 4 cycle non-ethanol 94 octane fuel for my generator. Even with the special deal I got, it is still outrageously expensive. There are places downeast that pump it for prices similar to what Nafterclifen mentioned, but I haven't found one close enough yet. Given that we lost power for two days during the last storm, I wanted to get some in the tank so as not to worry about water absorption.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Most people don't know that "Tru-Fuel" is just non ethanol pump gasoline with fuel stabilizers added to it, nothing more, and the price they charge for it is outrageous.
You figure at $10-$15 a gallon, its a lot cheaper to find a gas station that sells non ethanol and add your own stabilizer to it for a lot less money if you figure what it cost per gallon including the cost of a bottle of stabilizer, and mix it yourself, you are saving a lot of money.
If you use up your fuel fast enough and are always buying new fuel, you are better off just buying regular pump gas with or without ethanol and adding stabilizer to it just in case the machine might sit for a long time without being run.
It doesn't last any longer than regular pump gas with stabilizer added to it when its sitting in your snowblowers fuel tank. It only lasts longer when it remains in the sealed container that it comes in when you buy it and not opening the can to let air into it.
When it gets old, it can still leave varnish and deposits in the carburetor if it sits in it for a long time, the same as regular gas with stabilizers in it. Both of those will last longer than non stabilized fuel because the stabilizer helps to keep the atoms in the molecules of the gasoline from breaking apart and splitting away from certain other atoms that make up the molecules of the gasoline. When they split up and separate and combine with other atoms, they form molecules of sludge/varnish and what is left does not want to burn properly.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> If you use up your fuel fast enough and are always buying new fuel, you are better off just buying regular pump gas with or without ethanol and adding stabilizer to it just in case the machine might sit for a long time without being run.
> It doesn't last any longer than regular pump gas with stabilizer added to it when its sitting in your snowblowers fuel tank. It only lasts longer when it remains in the sealed container that it comes in when you buy it and not opening the can to let air into it.
> When it gets old, it can still leave varnish and deposits in the carburetor if it sits in it for a long time, the same as regular gas with stabilizers in it. Both of those will last longer than non stabilized fuel because the stabilizer helps to keep the atoms in the molecules of the gasoline from breaking apart and splitting away from certain other atoms that make up the molecules of the gasoline. When they split up and separate and combine with other atoms, they form molecules of sludge/varnish and what is left does not want to burn properly.


have you watched project farm's video about fuels and stabilizer? it really doesn't seem like the stabilizer did much and that you are better off running ethanol free if it is readily available. ethanol free even seems to last better than e10 with stabilizer. it also prevents rubber parts from hardening which may not be an issue with snowblowers but pretty big deal in stuff like chainsaws, trimmers and blowers.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> have you watched project farm's video about fuels and stabilizer? it really doesn't seem like the stabilizer did much and that you are better off running ethanol free if it is readily available. ethanol free even seems to last better than e10 with stabilizer. it also prevents rubber parts from hardening which may not be an issue with snowblowers but pretty big deal in stuff like chainsaws, trimmers and blowers.


Yes I saw the video and from experience it just isn't worth the extra money for me.
Those little engines on two strokes will suffer more with the ethanol because they didn't put the parts in the carburetors to withstand the effects of the ethanol yet, and the metals used in the engines, and older larger engines are effected by it.
Most of your newer and larger engines have been built to handle the ethanol a lot better now.
You would think that Non Ethanol gas should be a lot less expensive because of the cost of the Ethanol itself.
Do you remember how much they raised the price of gas when they started to add Ethanol to the gas?
Someone is ripping us off by the price increase because of the Ethanol, or they are really ripping us off by selling the gas without it when you think about it.
If they raised the price because of it being added, you would think they would lower the price by not adding it, so somebody is making money off of it.
I would rather see them take Ethanol out of gasoline all together and give us back regular non ethanol fuel again so we don't have to put up with all the problems caused by it and regain better fuel mileage in our automobiles again.


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## dhoward750 (Oct 28, 2019)

I appreciate all the people who have chimed in to respond to my inquiry. I was not familiar with this product and was curious about it. As I mentioned in my post I knew it was costly but was wondering if it benefits outweighed that drawback. I estimated I could get 3 tank fulls on a case of six assuming the the Ariens tank was roughly a 1/2 gallon. In most seasons that is enough for me so $40 for a year was not a scary number. Anyway I will stick with gas. Thank you all.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> Yes I saw the video and *from experience it just isn't worth the extra money for me.
> Those little engines on two strokes will suffer more with the ethanol because they didn't put the parts in the carburetors to withstand the effects of the ethanol yet, and the metals used in the engines, and older larger engines are effected by it.
> Most of your newer and larger engines have been built to handle the ethanol a lot better now.*
> You would think that Non Ethanol gas should be a lot less expensive because of the cost of the Ethanol itself.
> ...


it is worth the whole $10/year or less more to me but i guess i get to see a lot more of the issue fixing other peoples stuff every spring and fall. you can rebuild 2 stroke carbs and still not be compatible with ethanol. walbro only started releasing a kit that is suppose to be ethanol resistant about 2 years ago. most of the new small engines are also more prone to having their carb clogged up buy ethanol residue because of the tight emissions standards and making the jets and passages so small. those new briggs plastic carbs are starting to be know for being replaced or needing the main jet drilled out to fix them and make them run again. 

i was always under the impression they put ethanol in the gas to make it cheaper. i would be all for getting rid of it.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

> " Why is ethanol in our gas?
> 
> Fuel ethanol is used to enhance the octane rating of gasoline. To put that simply, higher octane gas resists detonation, so it burns rather than exploding. But raising the octane level of gasoline is expensive; that’s why premium fuel costs more than regular. Adding ethanol reduces the tendency of low-grade gasoline to detonate, enabling our national fleet to run on crappier gas.
> 
> ...


Bottom line, its all about the votes and the money ….


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## malisha1 (Nov 16, 2018)

I usually add mystery marvel oil to every gas can. I run the engine dry during the off season. It also prevents me from starting and messing with the machine knowing there is no gas in it. The more you mess and care for it the more like u'll break it .


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

Lifespan of fuel is massively impacted by how well vented the storage environment is. The better sealed the tank or container is, the better the fuel will last (less volatile compounds escaping, less moisture getting in). This applies to stabilized or not as well as ethanol or not. Personally, I've burned stabilized E10 up to about 9 months old in lawn equipment and a year old in boats with no issues.


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## Badger9402 (Mar 3, 2019)

As far as I'm concerned, ethanol fuel is about the money. Here is an easy to use link to locate ethanol free fuel in your area. For me, that is all I use in any outdoor equipment.


*Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada*


https://www.pure-gas.org

pure-gas.org is the definitive list of _ethanol_-_free gas_ stations in the U.S. and Canada.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Badger9402 said:


> pure-gas.org is the definitive list of _ethanol_-_free gas_ stations in the U.S. and Canada.


my biggest issue with that website is it is user updated which is not always accurate. it is not like all pumps are clearly marked and it feels like it is slowly getting harder to find stuff that is clearly marked. i know even the station i usually buy from has new pumps and don't have any stickers on them yet about the ethanol content but hoping they will eventually.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> it is worth the whole $10/year or less more to me but i guess i get to see a lot more of the issue fixing other peoples stuff every spring and fall. you can rebuild 2 stroke carbs and still not be compatible with ethanol. walbro only started releasing a kit that is suppose to be ethanol resistant about 2 years ago. most of the new small engines are also more prone to having their carb clogged up buy ethanol residue because of the tight emissions standards and making the jets and passages so small. those new briggs plastic carbs are starting to be know for being replaced or needing the main jet drilled out to fix them and make them run again.
> 
> i was always under the impression they put ethanol in the gas to make it cheaper. i would be all for getting rid of it.


Hi C.W. 
For us it would end up costing in the thousands of $$$ with the amount of fuel we go through in a season. I get to see the damage caused by ethanol on a daily basis in those little Zama and Walbro carbs.
They have been building them to be more resistant to the effects of it for a couple years now, but up to 10% ethanol. You never know how much is put in the tanker truck at the loading depot before it is delivered to the gas station's storage tanks.
One of the biggest problems now is the "Salts" created by the ethanol corroding the metals now and not as much "Varnish" as in the past before ethanol.
Ethanol is a strong solvent that actually helped clean the varnish and leave less carbon build-up in the combustion chamber, but did a lot of other damage.
The ethanol is basically used for 2 main things, an "Oxygenator" and a "Filler" to take up space so we have less volume of gasoline, therefore we wouldn't be using as much gas and to make it burn cleaner. But we get less fuel mileage out of it so we are using more of it to go the same distance, plus all the fuel being burned to farm it and distill it to produce it in the first place.
You are correct about the smaller fuel jets to make things run leaner and clogging easier.
You mentioned about those Briggs plastic carbs. Those things are junk to say the least. They crack and do not hold up to the vibrations of a small engine.
They were originally made for weight savings and to be compatible with ethanol so they wouldn't corrode, plus using recycled plastic. Briggs had a problem with them and with the plastic fuel tanks which were recalled because of them dissolving, not from ethanol, but from some of the ingredients in the gasoline.
The gasoline was breaking them down and emulsifying them, then when the fuel sat in the carburetor bowl, it would re-emulsify and leave those little white plastic specks. That wasn't caused by the ethanol, it was caused by the gasoline. Briggs finally realized the problem they were having with the plastic, along with a couple of other manufacturers, and they had to change the type of plastic they were using. I have some of the service bulletins from Briggs about that.
I still think we should go back to the old way they used to make gasoline, back in the "Leaded" days, then we wouldn't be having the problems we have today with all the "Oxygenated" fuels that are available today.
You figure crude oil was made from plants that rotted away in the ground for a couple million years, now they take the plant and try to make fuel out of it right away instead of waiting a few million years, and what do we get out of it? - Ethanol,,, and headaches from the problems it causes because it hasn't been perfected yet.
I am not a fan of ethanol.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

are you running a business or something because that is about the only way i see someone using enough gas to just buying regular gas. it is only about $0.80CAD/gallon more for ethanol free 91 octane. don't even think i use 10 gallons/year between grass cutting and snowblowing. $8/year seems more than worth it to me to keep my equipment running like new. if you were dealing with enough walbro carbs you would also know it was only about 2 years ago that walbro came out with spiral diaphragm kit which is about the only option i know of that is suppose to solve the ethanol fuel issue. don't know if zama has plans on copying them or not. the cheap diagrams are still cheap.


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## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

Funny you should mention Tru Fuel...I have not mentioned or thought of it in a year....or should I say a Snowblower off season.....I just got my new Hand held leaf blower today and it requires 89 octane per Manual. So I looked up true Fuel(2 Cycle) and VP.....The VP you can get a 40:1/50:1 mix in one can.....How can they claim that????

I could see buying a couple of quarts of true fuel for the leaf blower(smaller tank) I use a couple times a year Spring/Fall mostly and a few times in the middle.....but a snowblower come on season might but$$$$ (bigger tank and Frequency used).

I think maybe either Additive to E-10 or try to find a local airport that might sell ethanol free gas at a fair price might be the best option.

I saw on Amazon today which I have never seen before called Stabil Fast Fix???? Anyone use or try it??
Any success??? Suppose to help clean out gummed up small engines....????

Has anyone done a survey on which additive they are using???? 
Like set up a poll????


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

If money is not an issue for it or you use it so little, there is certainly no harm in using Tru Fuel exclusively. As others have noted there is no advantage during the season either. The issue does arise at the end of season and the storage conditions for the equipment and for the fuel.

Most are just fine with either draining the carburetor and the tank, or storing it with stabilized fuel in it. That works if you're sure you're going to use it within the year.

I'm an outlier, I drain everything dry for the off season, which around here can be "seasons" as in plural. Getting enough snow to use the snow blower is not a given so it may well sit for two or three years and never get run. Even stabilized fuel will go bad in that time. Other years we get buried and it's a dice roll as to what any given year will be.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Yes a commercial business plus a lot of my own property to maintain.
I guess if you don't use much fuel a year, like 10 gallons or less, then some of the Tru-Fuel types of gas would be o.k. to use, but for the amount we use, it is not worth it for the extra cost.
Walbro and Zama have been experimenting and changing materials that parts like rubber diaphragms and plastic check valves, plus fuel lines, tanks and viton seats are made with to see how they hold up and work, and different metals used in the fuel systems over the past few years, like carburetor bodies and related components.
We live in the state with the highest gasoline taxes in the nation, yet we have the worst roads, and wonder who's pocket all of that tax money is going in, because its not going to fix the roads where its supposed to go, so we have some of the highest gas prices in the nation.
They did have some polls as to what different treatments people use and their experiences with them, but I haven't seen them in a while. It would be a good subject to see again.
We have so many different people on here who try different things and report how they work for them. 
A lot of people do things different ways and experiment to see what works best for them, then report their findings on here. If it works good, then they continue to do it their way. It must confuse a lot of people who read them, especially new people on here.
The "Stabil" Fast Fix is like "Mechanic in the Bottle". Sometimes it works if its not a bad clog, other times it doesn't and the carb has to be disassembled and cleaned. 
It is basically the good chemicals and detergents that they used to put in gasoline but don't anymore due to pollution reasons and their toxicity, chemicals like Naptha and Acetone, cleaning solvents and other flammable chemicals that evaporated easily when the fuel sat and caused air pollution.


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

rslifkin said:


> Personally, I've burned stabilized E10 up to about 9 months old in lawn equipment and a year old in boats with no issues.


I just had to run my house from a generator for two days.The generator is stored with a full tank of gas(E10) with Sta-Bil added,engine run until it quits and then fuel bowl drained.


The gas in generator was over a year old and it ran perfectly through the whole tank of gas.


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## uberT (Dec 29, 2013)

I'm still a believer in running the equipment dry at the end of the season and then adding 1/2 qt or so of Trufuel and run the engine for a few minutes. Running Trufuel or equiv. exclusively would be very $$$$. I buy one can of 2 stroke and one can of 4 stroke per year. That's all I need.

We do not have access to E0 in my area.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Its a good idea.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

uberT said:


> I'm still a believer in running the equipment dry at the end of the season and then adding 1/2 qt or so of Trufuel and run the engine for a few minutes. Running Trufuel or equiv. exclusively would be very $$$$. * I buy one can of 2 stroke and one can of 4 stroke per year*. That's all I need.


you could probably just run the 2 stroke stuff through the engine at the end of season instead of buying 4 stroke stuff. it will do the same job just has a bit of lubrication in it.


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## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

For what it’s worth, I used stabilized fuel year round and ran dry up until 2012ish. Blower stopped running. Mower always ran from 1998 but would get harder to start. 
2012 I paid for a carb rebuild (blower) and was told to run dry vis shutoff, and use stabilized fuel. (As I always did. )

I bought premium fuel and used seafoam. I even got fresh fuel if not used in 30,days. I’d shutoff fuel and run dry. Blower Still gave it up last year. Turns out my “premium “ fuel still had ethonal. 

So last spring (thanks to all the help in here) I rebuilt both mower and blower carbs. Mower started on the first pull like it did in 98!
Blower ran like a boss! Blower got trufuel exclusively since the rebuild and sat for 7 months, no fuel shutoff. Started up easily. 

Mower also got trufuel exclusively and has/will sit all winter. I’ll let you know in the spring. I’m confident it will start on one pull. 

Personally everything I own gets trufuel , and trufuel only. Sure it’s more expensive but I use my mower once a week. I went through 1-1/2 cans of trufuel. My blower was used once, and may not get used again. The extra cost is well worth knowing my stuff will start. Plus I no longer worry about fuel rotation (didn’t help anyway) and mixing oil, etc.


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## Ariensboy (Apr 2, 2019)

Thanks for the post. When I do my last lawn cut should I run tank dry of E 10 gas without stabil, then add cup of Trufuel run 3 minutes and store away for winter. Will Trufuel go bad over winter. Trufuel's website doesn't talk about leaving Trufuel in tank for months on end.


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

nafterclifen said:


> I used to stabilize all my fuel with Lucas Ethanol Fuel Conditioner (https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/safeguard-ethanol-fuel-conditioner-with-stabilizers) but I stopped about a year ago. I'm now able to get 89-octane ethanol free fuel at one of my local Wawa so that is what I use exclusively now. It's only .25 more per gallon, super reasonable.
> 
> $2.99 = 89 ethanol
> $3.24 = 89 non-ethanol
> ...



I'd still use sta-bil and have been since before ethanol became a thing. 





Nan_wpg said:


> For what it’s worth, I used stabilized fuel year round and ran dry up until 2012ish. Blower stopped running. Mower always ran from 1998 but would get harder to start.
> 2012 I paid for a carb rebuild (blower) and was told to run dry vis shutoff, and use stabilized fuel. (As I always did. )
> 
> I bought premium fuel and used seafoam. I even got fresh fuel if not used in 30,days. I’d shutoff fuel and run dry. Blower Still gave it up last year. Turns out my “premium “ fuel still had ethonal.
> ...





One thing to watch for is if the pump you're using has one hose or a separate hose for each grade.. The ones that share a hose.. well you're getting some of whatever the last person used first before you get what you selected as the hose and equipment up to where the switching valve is filled with someone else's selection. 



If I have to, I will put a few gallons into my vehicle before filling up a can and then shut it off and restart the pump and use regular and fill up my vehicle. That way I get all the premium I paid for and hopefully only got premium in the gas can. I do miss the days when stations had separate hoses for every grade no matter what.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Ariensboy said:


> Thanks for the post. When I do my last lawn cut should I run tank dry of E 10 gas without stabil, then add cup of Trufuel run 3 minutes and store away for winter. Will Trufuel go bad over winter. Trufuel's website doesn't talk about leaving Trufuel in tank for months on end.


that should be fine. wont hurt to run it dry then run some truefuel through it. i would say you may want to use that stuff up within 6-12 months max. it seems like fuel seems to loose some of its kick with age. while it likely won't gum up the carb as it ages it may make the machine hard or impossible to start. 


notabiker said:


> If I have to, *I will put a few gallons into my vehicle before filling up a can* and then shut it off and restart the pump and use regular and fill up my vehicle. That way I get all the premium I paid for and hopefully only got premium in the gas can. I do miss the days when stations had separate hoses for every grade no matter what.


at least i feel better knowing i am not alone with that lol. usually put about 5-10 litres in my vehicle first and then put some in the jerry can.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> that should be fine. wont hurt to run it dry then run some truefuel through it. i would say you may want to use that stuff up within 6-12 months max. it seems like fuel seems to loose some of its kick with age. while it likely won't gum up the carb as it ages it may make the machine hard or impossible to start.
> 
> at least i feel better knowing i am not alone with that lol. usually put about 5-10 litres in my vehicle first and then put some in the jerry can.


Good idea C.W.
Most people do not realize that "Tru-Fuel" is nothing more than regular pump gasoline minus the ethanol and it has fuel "stabilizer/conditioner" added to it so you don't have to add any stabilizer to it.
It doesn't last any longer than regular pump gas bought at any gas station and adding the fuel stabilizer with "conditioners/solvents" in it yourself. It just costs more money because it is packaged in a fancy looking container.
If it is left in a machine or carburetor for a long time, it will still go bad and loose its flammability solvents like regular gasoline will, and still leave deposits in the fuel bowl just like any other stale gasoline will. Many people have found that out the "Hard Way", thinking it was some kind of "Miracle" fuel that wouldn't do that, but it surprised them and "Gunked up" the carburetor from sitting in it for over 9 months, plus the gas went "Stale" and wouldn't ignite, causing hard starting or a "No Start" problem.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> , it will still go bad and loose its flammability solvents like regular gasoline will, *and still leave deposits in the fuel bowl just like any other stale gasoline will*. Many people have found that out the "Hard Way", thinking it was some kind of "Miracle" fuel that wouldn't do that, but it surprised them and "Gunked up" the carburetor from sitting in it for over 9 months, plus the gas went "Stale" and wouldn't ignite, causing hard starting or a "No Start" problem.


ethanol free doesn't evaporate or leave deposits as quick as stuff with ethanol as project farm's most recent video about fuel shows. still usually leave the carb internals pretty clean. just once it start loosing its flammability you have to get fresh fuel into the carb to get it running once again. with the older flat head snowblower engines i usually just keep pumping the primer till you see gas pouring onto the ground for a bit. can't do that with OHV engine since the carb usually sits level with intake which could possibly flood the engine.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> ethanol free doesn't evaporate or leave deposits as quick as stuff with ethanol as project farm's most recent video about fuel shows. still usually leave the carb internals pretty clean. just once it start loosing its flammability you have to get fresh fuel into the carb to get it running once again. with the older flat head snowblower engines i usually just keep pumping the primer till you see gas pouring onto the ground for a bit. can't do that with OHV engine since the carb usually sits level with intake which could possibly flood the engine.


That's what you have to do to get fresh fuel back into the carburetor again, that's why I drain my carbs usually by turning off the fuel and letting them run out of gas.
Believe it or not, the ethanol doesn't leave the deposits like the gasoline does. The ethanol actually helps dissolve the gum and varnish deposits, being the solvent that ethanol is. Some of the ingredients in the gasoline are actually what cause some of the "Salt" type deposits that were shown in some of the videos.
The ethanol is basically used as a "Filler" or an "Oxygenator" to take up space in the gasoline so you are getting less gasoline per gallon than straight non ethanol gasoline, but you are using the fuel up faster because it is less efficient than gasoline.
I am not a fan of ethanol. Our government wants us to cut back on foreign oil usage by putting ethanol in our gasoline, but when you get less miles per gallon with ethanol laced fuel, you are actually using more fuel than before, plus all the fuel that is used to farm and create ethanol in the first place. And they forget that we dont import as much foreign oil now because we have most of it here in our own country that is being pumped out of the ground now. So they can do away with their ethanol garbage if they really want us to conserve fuel.
About the only positive thing ethanol does is it makes they gasoline burn cleaner and leaves less carbon deposits in the combustion chambers and cuts back a little on carbon monoxide pollution, but creates a lot more carbon dioxide "Greenhouse Gasses".
But what can we expect from our great "College Educated IDIOTS" lawmaker politicians we have.


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

Ethanol fuel does have one other upside: in an engine with high enough compression to take advantage of it it makes slightly more power than straight gas once the engine tuning is adjusted for the different fuel mixture, timing is optimized, etc.


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## Ariensboy (Apr 2, 2019)

Thanks for the info on Trufuel. It sounds like I should run all engines dry and leave empty until used the following season. After running dry should I remove bowl and wipe clean and then replace. I know some of you are think this is over kill but why is there so many choices to close down a small engine.
I will run dry, wipe out bowl and call it a day for lawn mower and snowblower.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> Believe it or not, the ethanol doesn't leave the deposits like the gasoline does. The ethanol actually helps dissolve the gum and varnish deposits, being the solvent that ethanol is. Some of the ingredients in the gasoline are actually what cause some of the "Salt" type deposits that were shown in some of the videos.
> The ethanol is basically used as a "Filler" or an "Oxygenator" to take up space in the gasoline so you are getting less gasoline per gallon than straight non ethanol gasoline, but you are using the fuel up faster because it is less efficient than gasoline.


i have usually seen build ups and garbage in carbs that have been running ethanol fuel. any carb that are ethanol free usually show it when you remove the float bowl. this was a float bowl off a machine that i picked up this summer that was running last summer. that is not rust. it is whatever the gas converts to when the ethanol and and whatever else start evaporating off. also seen similar things happen with smaller engine carbs.


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## Ariensboy (Apr 2, 2019)

This is an article from the Chicago Tribune May, 2015

It's long, but I thought it would be helpful.


DEAR TIM: I've got a lawn mower, a snow blower and a garden tiller with small gasoline engines. I'm about to purchase a log splitter that has one. I don't want any problems and want to avoid any damage to the new engine and the existing ones. I've heard that the current gasoline with ethanol in it is really bad for small engines. Are the stabilizer products really good? What is wrong with the ethanol? Are there alternative fuels that are small-engine friendly? -- Steve G., Monument, Colo.

DEAR STEVE: If we were playing small engine poker, I'd call your small engine machines and raise you a power washer! Yes, I've got a wide assortment of gasoline-powered equipment too. Small engines used to be the bane of my existence with hard-starting issues, but those days are long gone now that I know the truth about ethanol-based gasoline.

Recent survey results have shown that most consumers place a very high value on ease of starting and ease of maintenance with small engines. One of the most important factors in ease of starting an engine is the fuel you put in it.

What you've heard about ethanol in gasoline is true. Small engine repair shops love ethanol because it provides them with a steady stream of business. But if you get one of these shop owners to open up with you, he'll probably tell you he doesn't use that gasoline in his own small engines.

Ethanol attracts water. Water enters your fuel system in the air that enters the fuel tank as the gasoline is burned by the engine. The water is drawn into the gasoline, making for a chemical mix that accelerates corrosion of metal parts in the engine.

When the fuel level is low in the tank, the water can condense on the cool surfaces of the tank. This water then runs down and gets into the gasoline. If enough water collects in the tank, it can get drawn into the engine, where it can cause the engine to run poorly.

Ethanol acts as a solvent in older engines and can dissolve old gum and varnish deposits from the gas tank and fuel lines. These deposits can then clog the very small orifices in the carburetor. If this happens, your good day turns bad very quickly, as your small engine will not start no matter how many curse words you hurl at it.

Gasoline can also oxidize or rust just like iron or steel. When gasoline oxidizes, you don't get orange flakes of rust; you get gum and varnish in the gasoline that causes clogs.

The reason you don't have trouble with ethanol in most cars is because you tend to get new gasoline on a regular basis as you drive your car each day or every other day. Ethanol-containing gasoline can deteriorate in just 30 days.

Most of the fuel stabilizer products do a great job of protecting small engines. These additives are primarily anti-oxidants. They grab oxygen that's in the gasoline, preventing it from turning into gum and varnish.


Really good stabilizers work not only in the liquid gasoline but in the air or vapor that's on top of the gasoline in the partially filled gas tank. Look for stabilizer products that say they offer vapor technology to treat the air and vapor that's floating above the gasoline in the tank. Remember, this air contains water.

Very few people take the time to fill a small engine gas tank after each use. Doing this minimizes the amount of available oxygen that can cause problems. When you decide to fill your small engine tank, always fill it to about 95 percent of the way so the gasoline won't expand and leak out if the garage, shed or patio gets hot from the sun.

If you have a can of older gasoline in your garage from the winter, summer or fall, just put it into whatever car or truck is driven the most. It will mix with the fresh gasoline and will not hurt your car if you get it filled up once the tank is near empty.

If you're using a fuel stabilizer for the first time and have untreated gas in your small engine, start up the engine and allow it to run for about three minutes. This allows treated fuel to be drawn up into the fuel lines and carburetor. You want stabilized gasoline to extend from the gas tank all the way up to the intake valve so you get no corrosion happening while the engine is in storage.

The good news is you can buy gasoline for your small engines that doesn't contain ethanol. Many businesses that sell machines with small gasoline engines stock cans of ethanol-free gasoline that already has the stabilizer chemicals in it. Most people are unaware of this resource. You can even get these fuels for two-cycle engines with the two-cycle oil already added as well as the stabilizer.

Another resource is a local airport used by small aircraft. You'll almost always find an FBO, or fixed-base operator, at these small to medium-sized airports. Airplanes that use gasoline have engines that will not tolerate ethanol, so the gasoline sold at these airports is free of the problem-causing ingredient.

If you take an approved fuel can, these businesses will almost always sell you the sweet nectar your small engine will devour. The octane of this gasoline is higher, and your small engine will think it's eating a piece of double chocolate cake with mocha icing. You know how that puts a smile on your face; imagine how happy your small engine will be! You should add the stabilizer to this ethanol-free gasoline if you decide to use it


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> i have usually seen build ups and garbage in carbs that have been running ethanol fuel. any carb that are ethanol free usually show it when you remove the float bowl. this was a float bowl off a machine that i picked up this summer that was running last summer. that is not rust. it is whatever the gas converts to when the ethanol and and whatever else start evaporating off. also seen similar things happen with smaller engine carbs.[/QUOTE
> 
> Those are good pictures to show what happens when you leave gasoline in a carburetor for an extended period of time. That is what happens when gasoline "Oxidizes"
> That will happen to treated and un-treated fuel, and also ethanol and non ethanol.
> ...


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Ariensboy said:


> Thanks for the info on Trufuel. It sounds like I should run all engines dry and leave empty until used the following season. After running dry should I remove bowl and wipe clean and then replace. I know some of you are think this is over kill but why is there so many choices to close down a small engine.
> I will run dry, wipe out bowl and call it a day for lawn mower and snowblower.


That's not "Over Kill". I know a lot of people that do the same thing.
I also know a lot of people who after running the carburetor dry, they remove the fuel bowl and spray the inside of the bowl and all the metal carburetor parts with coating of WD40 to protect the metal surfaces. They even do that to their metal gas tanks.
Then the next season when they fill the tanks up, they turn on the fuel valve and let the gasoline rinse/flush out the remaining WD40 coating. The WD40 will rinse away and protect the metal when it was dry from air and corrosion so it wont oxidize or rust, and the aluminum wont turn white with oxidation.
The gasoline just rinses the WD40 away and you just start the engine. It might idle a little bit rough at first or smoke a little bit until all the stuff is rinsed away, then everything clears up and you are good to go with your engine.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> Those are good pictures to show what happens when you leave gasoline in a carburetor for an extended period of time. That is what happens when gasoline "Oxidizes"
> That will happen to treated and un-treated fuel, and also ethanol and non ethanol.


i don't really understand science behind it but my experience would be pretty much the same as the results project farm got. never had an issue with ethanol free fuel breaking down or gumming up a carb from sitting. maybe i have never let ethanol free fuel sit long enough to get that bad but i rarely ever let something sit for much longer than 1 year.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi C.W. I get to see all kinds of neat stuff everyday with my work. Its unbelievable what people do and how they neglect their equipment and wonder why it wont run or start.
You get to see that a lot in the motorcycle and power equipment small engines carburetors over the past 40+ years.
"But it ran when I put it away last year" is the famous comment we hear daily from customers, and we ask, "Well, did you store it properly like we told you how to do?".
You showed a nice picture of the gunk in a fuel bowl that I like to show people of what happens when they leave fuel sit in the carburetors, and that is why we tell them to DRAIN THE CARB before they put the machine away for an extended period of time.
We tell them to either drain the fuel tank or keep it filled up all the way with stabilized fuel, and DRAIN THE CARBURETOR BOWL!!! of any remaining gasoline by either running the engine with the fuel valve turned off until it stalls out, or loosen the drain screw on the bowl and drain it out, then crank the engine over a few times to get out any remaining fuel left in the passageways of the carburetor. Then it will start much easier next year. But most people forget to do what we tell them, and we get to see them every year for the "No Start" or "Hard Start" problems.
Back in the 90's they used to call the fuel "Oxygenated" but that "Word" got "tired out", and now they call it "Ethanol" because of the name of the additive that is used to oxygenate gasoline.
Give it time and the "Ethanol" word will get "Tired Out" and they will start calling it a different word or name.
But just think, in another couple of months we will be bitching that its too hot out and we have to cut the grass again.


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

The switch to calling it ethanol gas was when they started adding ethanol as the oxygenate pretty much universally. Before that, a lot of oxygenated gas had MTBE in it instead of ethanol.


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## Ariensboy (Apr 2, 2019)

Hi-- ST1100A

This is part of your post. I don't know how to grab part of a quote.

"We tell them to either drain the fuel tank or keep it filled up all the way with stabilized fuel, and DRAIN THE CARBURETOR BOWL!!!"

My question is, why do you recommend leaving fuel tank full with sta-bil gas in. If I run dry will it cause issues in the tank?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi Ariensboy
The fuel tank has more air space in it for condensation to collect moisture in, and then it can start to rust especially when it is a steel tank.
You have a lot more fuel in the fuel tank than you have in the carburetor bowl, so the fuel in the tank will stay fresher a lot longer than the very small amount that is in the carburetor bowl that is vented to outside air.
You can store it either way, but if you are in a humid area, I would suggest you keep the tank full to help prevent condensation build-up. If it is stored in a nice dry area, you shouldn't have the condensation problem as much.
The carburetors are effected a lot more and quicker because of the tiny amount of fuel they hold than the much larger amount of air space that is in the fuel tank.
You also think of the flammable solvents that evaporate in the gasoline, with a tiny amount, it evaporates a lot quicker, as to a large amount of fuel, it takes longer and the tanks are sealed more to help overcome or prevent the vapors from escaping as much as they would in the carburetor bowl.
A fuel tank is designed and vented to allow air to come into the tank to make up for the gas level going down as it is used up, and to not allow the fuel vapors to escape, where a carburetor is vented to allow air in and out to equalize pressure in the fuel bowl.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

rslifkin said:


> The switch to calling it ethanol gas was when they started adding ethanol as the oxygenate pretty much universally. Before that, a lot of oxygenated gas had MTBE in it instead of ethanol.


The MTBE was used primarily as a Anti-Knock compound that took the place of lead until they found out how hazardous it was. The MTBE actually made lead look like it was clean, that was how bad the MTBE was.
They were using different oxygenate compounds in different parts of the country for quite a while from back in the 80's, especially in towns with high pollution like Los Angeles and New York city areas well before they made it universal for everyone to have to use.
The US government finally settled on Ethanol because they wanted to help the farmers out by giving them a place to sell their corn so they had an income, and most of it was grown here, so they got the other idea of "Renewable Fuel" from that.
I remember back in the 70's when they used to sell "Gas-ahol" from Texaco that had the ethanol mixed with the gasoline and all the problems it caused with automobiles and small engines.


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## Ariensboy (Apr 2, 2019)

ST1100A said:


> Hi Ariensboy
> The fuel tank has more air space in it for condensation to collect moisture in, and then it can start to rust especially when it is a steel tank.
> You have a lot more fuel in the fuel tank than you have in the carburetor bowl, so the fuel in the tank will stay fresher a lot longer than the very small amount that is in the carburetor bowl that is vented to outside air.
> You can store it either way, but if you are in a humid area, I would suggest you keep the tank full to help prevent condensation build-up. If it is stored in a nice dry area, you shouldn't have the condensation problem as much.
> ...


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Myself, I wouldn't worry about it 'for a week or two', but definitely at the end of the season.


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## Ariensboy (Apr 2, 2019)

tadawson said:


> Myself, I wouldn't worry about it 'for a week or two', but definitely at the end of the season.


Hi tadawson

I think I'm over thinking this! Thanks


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Ariensboy, I do that every time I shut my equipment off. I might use it again a few hours later or the next day but I still do it.
You never know if for some reason you don't use it and forget about it, then all of a sudden its a year later, you will have a problem.
I do it automatically every time, that's just part of my normal routine because you never know, you might not run it again for a long time. We can't always predict the weather or other things in life that may sneak up on us.
That way, it will always start a lot easier for me the next time I need it in a hurry.


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## Ariensboy (Apr 2, 2019)

ST1100A, I think you're right. You never know how soon or if it's going to snow. But I do know when I need to cut the grass.


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## 88-tek (Nov 5, 2017)

Hey Everyone, I know you have your own ways of storing OPE, so this is mine. :smile2: 

1. When OPE is in season, I use 360 Sta-bil with "rot gut" gas. 

2. When it's off-season, I drain and fill with Tru-fuel. Run for several minutes, and mothball. 

No problems. No complications, No nightmares. :blowerhug:


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

For what it's worth, I did a good hour of blowing yesterday with no issues (first real run of the season). And the blower was running on the stabilized E10 that's been in the blower tank since spring (and was probably bought last December).


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## BNSFguy (Nov 2, 2019)

If you're interested in Trufuel, check out VP small engine fuel. It's a little bit cheaper, higher octane, and VP has an excellent reputation for their fuels throughout all types of racing. Plus, it smells amazing when you run in thru your motor. You'll immediately notice the smell. Reminds me of when I use to race "crotch rockets" and ran "ELF race gas". You can but the VP small engine fuel at HD and many other stores. Comes in quarts, gallons, 5 gallon, and 55 gallon. You can buy a 5 gallon on sale for about $65.00 delivered to your door. I know that's obviously not "cheap" when comparing it to pump gas, but for the small amounts most homeowners would use, it's cheap insurance. I'd run VP over Trufuel. Better fuel, less money.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

BNSFguy said:


> If you're interested in Trufuel, check out VP small engine fuel. It's a little bit cheaper, higher octane, and VP has an excellent reputation for their fuels throughout all types of racing. Plus, it smells amazing when you run in thru your motor. You'll immediately notice the smell. Reminds me of when I use to race "crotch rockets" and ran "ELF race gas". You can but the VP small engine fuel at HD and many other stores. Comes in quarts, gallons, 5 gallon, and 55 gallon. You can buy a 5 gallon on sale for about $65.00 delivered to your door. I know that's obviously not "cheap" when comparing it to pump gas, but for the small amounts most homeowners would use, it's cheap insurance. I'd run VP over Trufuel. Better fuel, less money.


Speaking of the smell of the VP gas, I used to love the scent of the blue AV gas when it came out the tailpipe of the car. Everyone who was standing near it when it went by always had a funny look on their faces and their noses seemed to have a funny reaction to it.
I guess the 110/120 octane airplane fuel had a different scent to it when it burned.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i don't mind the smell of race fuel but that stuff is potent. had 3 or 4 drums sitting in a warehouse i use to work at and they only sat in the warehouse over night and the next morning the warehouse just reeked of the stuff till we got all the doors opened up and place aired out.


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## CO Snow (Dec 8, 2011)

I use non-ethanol fuel from a dedicated pump ($0.04 more per gallon than ethanol fuel) with Stabil Marine and Sea Foam. That’s in the snowblower 365 days in the year.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

C.W. Yea you got that right. That stuff has a nasty smell after a while, not something you want to be breathing/smelling all day long, that's for sure.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

BNSFguy said:


> If you're interested in Trufuel, check out VP small engine fuel. It's a little bit cheaper, higher octane, and VP has an excellent reputation for their fuels throughout all types of racing. Plus, it smells amazing when you run in thru your motor. You'll immediately notice the smell. Reminds me of when I use to race "crotch rockets" and ran "ELF race gas". You can but the VP small engine fuel at HD and many other stores. Comes in quarts, gallons, 5 gallon, and 55 gallon. You can buy a 5 gallon on sale for about $65.00 delivered to your door. I know that's obviously not "cheap" when comparing it to pump gas, but for the small amounts most homeowners would use, it's cheap insurance. I'd run VP over Trufuel. Better fuel, less money.


"Crotch rockets" you mean like this one?


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## vstorm (Dec 9, 2019)

First of all, redo the math. It's not $14.00 a gallon. Using the numbers posted above, at $6/32 oz that's $24/gal! Are you going to the snowblower races? If not buy low-cost non-ethanol fuel, available almost everywhere. The Sunoco station in my town sells 93 octane non-ethanol for just under $4/gal. Local marinas sell it for just over $4/gal. The airport sells it for a lot more but still a lot less than VP! If you can't get non-ethanol then make sure you store your ethanol fuel in an airtight can. If you have to let the machine sit for a while, even a month. Shut off the fuel and run it until it stalls, using the choke at the end. For longer storage, empty the tank and then use True Fuel (if that's all you can get). Put a little in your tank and run the engine, shutting off the fuel valve once more and draining the carb. Fogging is a good idea. Fill the tank for storage with ethanol gas and then drain it out for next season and burn it in an automobile with fuel injection.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

88-tek said:


> Hey Everyone, I know you have your own ways of storing OPE, so this is mine. :smile2:
> 
> 1. When OPE is in season, I use 360 Sta-bil with "rot gut" gas.
> 
> ...


before i found i could get Efree gas 40 miles away i used plain old 89 grade gas with stabil added, as per almost every small engine maker, never stored more than a 30 day supply kept in tightly sealed cans, end of the season i added marine store and start which has fogging oil in it. just double strength.to coat the carbs insides, run the engines for 5 or 10 mins,turned off the fuel ran them out,pulled the spark plug added in a 1 ounce of 30 w oil turned the motor a few turns put the plug back in, never did i have a starting or running issue come run time.

shop wise we almost always found the people who failed to read their owners manual and just parked the machine ,were the ones with issues , 
do we need to listen to the true fuel hype many companies push? yes and no! to me it's simply marketing hype to sell a over priced item, we all live all over the usa, canada and elsewhere, the people who know best are your local small engine shops, talk to them do as they tell you, chances are in your favor they are correct .


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## GeorgePowell (Mar 17, 2019)

Had my JD 928E for 15 years. Repairs were 1 strap, 1 shear bolt and several bushings for the wheel brass shafts where it goes through the body. The only thing l did with gas was to ALWAYS use stabilizer, never even drained the carburetor. Always started with one pull and on the rare occasion -2 pulls. Had a vibration in the front bucket and found out it was the plastic end bushings for the augor. My new 30 efi will always have stabilizer. I use 2 ten liter cans and between my boat and other gas operated equipment the gas is circulated quite often. I will also start it occasionally during summer.
just tried out the 30 efi in a small storm (more deep drifts then anything else), will post an opinion when l get a decent snowfall haha.


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## BNSFguy (Nov 2, 2019)

Here's a website that lists gas stations that carry "non-ethanol" fuel for the entire USA and Canada. You can look stations up by "state" or "zip code". They even have an app for Android or Apple.


https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

@87powershiftx2 is that Kawi yours? It’s in beautiful condition. Years ago in my 20’s I took one of those for a ride, the front went light and it went into a wobble somewhere between 80-90 mph. I came out of it without wiping out, but will never forget that scare. Be safe


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

SnowG said:


> @87powershiftx2 is that Kawi yours? It’s in beautiful condition. Years ago in my 20’s I took one of those for a ride, the front went light and it went into a wobble somewhere between 80-90 mph. I came out of it without wiping out, but will never forget that scare. Be safe


yes! still have it as and a 74 750 trip. both are now trailer/show queens, yes they are nose light like to give the rider a view of the sky or stars, if one has never ridden one , they most carry a spare set of clean skivvies with them as they will be brown shortly


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

87powershiftx2 said:


> yes! still have it as and a 74 750 trip. both are now trailer/show queens, yes they are nose light like to give the rider a view of the sky or stars, if one has never ridden one , they most carry a spare set of clean skivvies with them as they will be brown shortly


Yes those front ends did get very light and floated in the air many times when the right hand turned the throttle grip back towards the rider, they also seemed to have a funny knack of wearing out the rear tires rather quickly.


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