# Suggestions?



## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Craftsman with Tecumseh (ugh..) just died. Looking for opinions on Troybilt and Ariens. What engines do they use?

Also, does anyone know of partic. brands that come with Briggs and Stratton?

Looking for 24" 2 stage.

Thanks all-

Tim


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## Elt31987 (Sep 6, 2015)

Youll find that a lot of people are Ariens fans and for good reason. Their machines are built solid like a tank, their AX engine runs like a dream, they have a briggs as well, their customer service is arguably the best in the industry, and their parts are readily available to YEARS to come. The Briggs only comes on the Pro series, AX on everything else. Depending on how much snow you get your options would be the Compact 24, Deluxe 24 and the beastly 24 Platinum SHO


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Tim,
welcome to the forum!

These days there is little difference between Briggs engines and the other engines on the "well known" brand name snowblowers..the engines are ALL made in China, including the Briggs engines, and all are likely of equal quality.

there is also a whole new underbelly to watch out for though..there are snowblowers that are 100% made in china..the engines on those might be more suspect..but if you stick with the "well known" brand names, like Honda, Ariens, Toro, Cub Cadet, Troy-Bilt, etc, the engine will be perfectly fine..

Briggs engines are still available on some Ariens, some Toro, (perhaps other brands too) and on all the snowblower lines that are now actually owned by the Briggs & Stratton company itself, which include snowblowers made under these brand names:

Simplicity
Snapper
Brute
Murray
Briggs & Stratton

(That only applies to *current* new models though..if you are looking at used machines, those brand names weren't always owed by Briggs..)

If you are partial to Briggs engines (and they are good quality engines) I would limit your search to the following brands only:

Ariens (some models will have Briggs engines, but not all.)
Toro (some models will have Briggs engines, but not all.)
Snapper (all will have Briggs engines.)
Simplicity (all will have Briggs engines.)

Scot


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Thanks Elt - that helps.


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Thanks Scot!


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

tspencer said:


> Know anything? I will NEVER own a Tecumseh again.


You didn't state whether you were looking for a new or used machine so I think some people assumed you wanted a new one.

Until they (Tecumseh) went out of business a few years ago, Ariens used Tecumseh engines exclusively. So unless it's very recent, you won't find an Ariens with a Briggs engine.

Actually until they closed, Tecumseh owned a very large portion of the snowblower market... almost all the big names used them.

One respected brand that's sometimes an exception is Toro - they used some Briggs engines. And of course Honda who use their own engines - and both the machines and engines are highly respected. But they're also highly expensive!


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Used if I can get a decent one - Baltimore/Annapolis area. Thanks for the info!


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to the forum Tim



What is it that failed on your Craftsman ??


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Tecumseh engine. Gradually lost power and became hard to start over the past 2 years. Last year, if I ran anything other than wide-open, it died. 

Tried new carb, new fuel line, new spark plug, nothing worked. Took to the shop this weekend and it is producing only 26 lbs. of compression - should be 110-120. 

Guy told me they could rebuild for $400-$500 but not worth it - decent used one with a non-Tecumseh costs about the same.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

tspencer said:


> Tecumseh engine. Gradually lost power and became hard to start over the past 2 years. Last year, if I ran anything other than wide-open, it died.
> 
> Tried new carb, new fuel line, new spark plug, nothing worked. Took to the shop this weekend and it is producing only 26 lbs. of compression - should be 110-120.
> 
> Guy told me they could rebuild for $400-$500 but not worth it - decent used one with a non-Tecumseh costs about the same.


It might not need a rebuild. It might only need a new head gasket (or retorqued head bolts) &/or a valve-job.


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

classiccat said:


> It might not need a rebuild. It might only need a new head gasket (or retorqued head bolts) &/or a valve-job.


Thanks - I can certainly ask. Any idea how much that should run?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Can you post a photo of your machine ?? If it's in good shape it might be a good candidate for a Re-Power with a $99 Predator 6.5hp
If you're tired of it this is always a good excuse for a new/used one :icon_whistling:

I would check out the head gasket, you've got nothing to lose at this point.






There are a few show and tells here: https://www.google.com/search?q=donyboy73+head+gasket&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

How old is the engine, and have you done regular maintenance on it?


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Not sure of age - prob. 8-10 years. I bought it from a friend 3 years ago. Apperance wise it is flawless - kept indoors. I think he did oil changes, etc. but not sure.


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Can you post a photo of your machine ?? If it's in good shape it might be a good candidate for a Re-Power with a $99 Predator 6.5hp
> If you're tired of it this is always a good excuse for a new/used one :icon_whistling:
> 
> I would check out the head gasket, you've got nothing to lose at this point.
> ...


I don't have a photo - it's at the shop and prob. is not coming back. Here is a video I did last year that shows the issue - enough to identify?


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

tspencer said:


> Not sure of age - prob. 8-10 years. I bought it from a friend 3 years ago. Apperance wise it is flawless - kept indoors. I think he did oil changes, etc. but not sure.


Was it blowing smoke like the one in the video before it died? Did you do oil etc in the last three years you have had it?


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

skutflut said:


> Was it blowing smoke like the one in the video before it died? Did you do oil etc in the last three years you have had it?


It was not blowing smoke - or if so - very little. In 2 years of use, I did not change the oil - because it was used only 3-4 times. I did check the oil quantity before each use.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

If you don't have enough clearance between the lifter (tappit) & valve stem, the exhaust &/or intake valve could be partially open during the compression stroke. If that's the case, a valve job is in order.

Here's an entertaining example of an L-head valve job.






I just adjust the clearance & lap; I don't have the tool to reface the valves.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

tspencer said:


> Thanks - I can certainly ask. Any idea how much that should run?


Are you willing to tackle the job yourself, or give it to a shop? There are shops, and then there are shops. The shop that quoted you on a rebuild might not be the one you want, unless he was giving you a worst case scenario kind of quote.

A head gasket and valve job are not that tough to do yourself, if you have a bit of know how, some common tools, and a couple of not quite as common tools, such as a torque wrench, valve lapping tools and valve spring compressor, a feeler guage set for checking and setting valve clearance, and a box of various sized band-aids. 

You can probably find a video on Youtube showing the exact process for your particular engine even. Donyboy73 has a youtube channel and some of the best step by step instructional videos available. 

All depends on what's wrong. If you take off the head, and find the cylinder walls all messed up and scratched to ****, a hole in the piston etc, then you just stop right there, at basically no cost. Those can be fixed or rehoned, but then your getting into the rebuild process. 

If the cylinder is nice and smooth, then you would need a new head gasket, and possibly new exhaust and intake manifold gaskets for reassembly. I say possibly because if you do not have the replacement gaskets on hand, then the old ones will break, guaranteed. If you do have them, the old ones will probably be fine. (ask Murphy, he made the law).

For valves, maybe a new gasket for the valve port cover. The valve spring compressor is useful for getting the valves out of the engine for inspection, and for reinstalling them after they are lapped in, or installing a new valve if you find one burnt, causing the compression leak.

Probably looking at under 150.00 for the parts and the tools, and band-aids plus your time if you tackle it yourself. You might be able to find someplace that rents the torque wrench and valve compressor. but they can be had pretty cheap, and you don't need to by top of the line unless you plan on using them a lot.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

tspencer said:


> It was not blowing smoke - or if so - very little. In 2 years of use, I did not change the oil - because it was used only 3-4 times. I did check the oil quantity before each use.


Not blowing smoke says that the head gasket is probably ok beside the valve chamber, but it could be blown on the other side of the engine block which might not cause any smoking at all. 

Did you notice any loud hissing sounds when pulling the engine thru, like compressed air escaping. You could remove the shrouding around the fins and see if there is any black carbon marks around the fins at the head/cylinder joint.


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

skutflut said:


> Not blowing smoke says that the head gasket is probably ok beside the valve chamber, but it could be blown on the other side of the engine block which might not cause any smoking at all.
> 
> Did you notice any loud hissing sounds when pulling the engine thru, like compressed air escaping. You could remove the shrouding around the fins and see if there is any black carbon marks around the fins at the head/cylinder joint.


No hissing sounds - just a motor that cranks and won't start!


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

OUTSTANDING advice from all - thanks everyone!!


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

hello tspencer, welcome to *SBF!!* if you decide not to get your craftsman fixed and end up buying a used snowblower depending on age it will most likely have a Tecumseh engine on it, ten years ago Tecumseh was still in business and most snowblowers had them


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

looks to be in good shape. If it is a single shaft a 99 dollar predator is probably your best bet, but, it sounds to me like a bad head gasket or a recessed exhaust valve causing little to no clearance between the valve stem and the lifter which is also an easy fix. All you need to do this are simple tools and some time. Many videos on youtube on how to fix this issue. 

good luck on your decision. I would not junk the old one i would either fix the engine or just replace it.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

Being that your blower is a craftsman I would deep six it.(not to be a smart ass) I would buy a better brand like ariens, honda, simplicity and toro are all great brands that will out perform any of the mtd brands of blowers.


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## patthesoundguy (Jan 5, 2016)

I agree with everyone on there being a valve issue and and or head gasket issue. Check out Bruce pender on youtube, he had a snowblower video on valve issues and shows how to fix it. Toi can do it. engine replacment is also not that hard I did it on my 82 craftsman with the Canadian predator equivalent the good old Princess auto 6.5 Honda clone $150 on sale out the door. Diddnt take much messing around. Some metric bolts to mount the plate to the motor that holds the idler pulleys and a new metric fine thread bolt to mount the drive pulleys to the shaft. Make sure to sribe a line with a marker or all or scribe along the front and sides of the plate on the front of the motor if it has one to locate the motor in line so you won't spend time lining the belt and pulleys up later or burn up belts because of misalignhed pulleys. Ask me how I know this ;-)


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## alleyyooper (Sep 12, 2015)

I am a proud owner of a curb side find MTD about 1969 vintage with a 212CC Predator hemi version engine install. $99 till 1-31-16
6.5 HP (212cc) OHV Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine EPA

My 14 year old grand daughter could have did the engine swap with grandpa telling her what size sockets and wrenches to use. There were 4 small bolts holding the belt cover in place. One bolt holding the belt pulleys in place, 3 bolts holding the bracket with the impeller engagement pulley in place, 4 bolts holding the engine to the frame. The install went in reverse order but I had to lower the chute rotation rod to clear the valve cover. 

I have been able to use it 3 times so far. first was a snow with 2 inches of slush with 8 inches of snow on top. It was throwing the snow a good 30 feet (impeller kit done.), second ended up being 3 inches of slush and it threw that crap 15 feet and never did plug the chute either. Then yesterday at 14F in the little storage garage 3 pulls after sitting unused for a couple of weeks and it was running, after a couple minutes to warm up I was blowing snow. Two 100 yard driveways 4 inches of snow were done in 6th gear, used about a quart of fuel.



 Al


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

tspencer said:


> Craftsman with Tecumseh (ugh..) just died. Looking for opinions on Troybilt and Ariens. What engines do they use?
> 
> Also, does anyone know of partic. brands that come with Briggs and Stratton?
> 
> ...



find an old Gilson or Cub Cadet 8HP, fix it up, it will be the last snowblower you'll ever have to buy- those have Briggs engines

or get an older 10000 series Ariens 8HP-10HP, those have Tecumseh engines, but they last forever.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

The figure they shot is high for a few reasons - they charge at least $60/hr and it's a few hours minimum to do it plus parts and machine work. It adds up fast. You could DIY it or re-power it (still DIY) for under $200 - just depends on your abilities/tools. A decent used one could also be had for under $300 easily..... I fix up and sell used ones for less than $300 as do many others out there. No point in geting to crazy if you don't want to invest the effort/time/money in a dead one.


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Thanks all - everyone is very generous with their knowledge! As far as replacing the engine - the tech. told me this is a dual shaft, not a single, so no suitable replacement except for an identical used Tecumseh. THAT'S a no-go.

I asked about a valve job and rings only - he said that may work for awhile, but if the cylinders are warped, that will be a very temporary fixed - he thinks the block would need to be bored to tighten up new cylinders.

I prob. will look for a good used one. 69ariens - you recommend against MTD's. Can you elaborate? I can get a used 24" 2 stage for approx. $500.

THANKS ALL!


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

69ariens - you recommend against MTD's. Can you elaborate? I can get a used 24" 2 stage for approx. $500. the other brands he mentioned are just built better, parts seem easier to find for the older ones


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

If it is just the valve and you have basic hand tools at home you can do it yourself at home for free and just reuse the old gaskets for the time being. The gaskets might not seal perfectly, but I bet you can get it running again. At most maybe spend $10 on the lapping tools.


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Shryp said:


> If it is just the valve and you have basic hand tools at home you can do it yourself at home for free and just reuse the old gaskets for the time being. The gaskets might not seal perfectly, but I bet you can get it running again. At most maybe spend $10 on the lapping tools.


Hmm,... gives me something to think about -thanks.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

tspencer said:


> Thanks all - everyone is very generous with their knowledge! As far as replacing the engine - the tech. told me this is a dual shaft, not a single, so no suitable replacement except for an identical used Tecumseh. THAT'S a no-go.
> 
> I asked about a valve job and rings only - he said that may work for awhile, but if the cylinders are warped, that will be a very temporary fixed - he thinks the block would need to be bored to tighten up new cylinders.
> 
> ...


Mtd's brands have smaller augers and are made with cheaper parts. my brother and father had troy builts and my 1969 ariens eat the deaper snow up faster and clogs les in wetter snow. If you found a used pre 90's mtd they were built very well but they are harder to get parts for.


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

Cylinders warped ? I have been around engines, and repairs since 1969. That is a new one on me. Sounds like he doesn't know what is really wrong, or he is trying to take advantage of you.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Landngroove said:


> Cylinders warped ? I have been around engines, and repairs since 1969. That is a new one on me. Sounds like he doesn't know what is really wrong, or he is trying to take advantage of you.


I have heard of the heads warping on the small flat head engines. That and sometimes people lap the heads on a piece of glass to fix it or squeeze a bit more compression out of them.


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

I may have mis-spoken when I said warped cylinders. He indicated that even if they redo the valves and rings, there could be issues with the cylinder that would entail needing to machine the block and get a new piston. The shop recommended against any repair, telling me that for the cost of the repair, I could find another decent used machine.

I called a second shop for another opinion and they agreed.

What are the chances that valves, rings and gaskets would do the trick? I can prob. learn to lap valves. If I can do that and save $500 it may be worth it.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

It wouldn't hurt to take it apart and take a look. If the cyl has a ridge at the top ,I would just throw it out and find a good used blower. It would be fun to take a look. Before you take it apart. I would have a friend or wife slowly pull the starter rope first and your ear near the head , if you hear a hissing sound you got a bad head gasket or bad head. You could also find a used engine on craigs list. 
If it where me I would not put more than $100. into this blower. You could get a nice used blower for $250-$500


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Since the thing is not running anyway, why not disassemble it a bit and see what you can see. You can probably have the head off in a half hour, assuming you can get the exhaust manifold bolts out without too much trouble.

Once you are in there you can see whats what. If the cylinder is all scored up, and has a huge ridge at the top from wear, then just put it back together and call it a day. You will also find out if the head gasket is blown. 

If the cylinder seems in good shape, take a peak at the valves, see if you can rotate them with your thumb when the piston is at Top dead centre and both valves are closed. If you can, then that's where the compression leak is. That can be cured with either lapping the valves, and cleaning up the valve seats, or worst case, replacing a valve if its burnt. If you have to get the valves ground, (if the seatiing surfaces are pitted, and then lapping the valves after grinding to get the perfect seal, then you will probably have to grind or file a bit on each valve stem to get the right valve clearance, since grinding and lapping valves removes a bit of material, which lets the valves drop down closer to the lifters, and reduces your clearance. 

Once again, if you find problems with the cylinder, just reassemble it and put it up for sale as a "needs some work" machine.


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## tspencer (Jan 11, 2016)

Awesome info and advice from all - what a great forum - thanks!


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

tspencer said:


> Awesome info and advice from all - what a great forum - thanks!


Remember the bandaids


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

skutflut said:


> Remember the bandaids


red green would use duck tape


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

69ariens said:


> red green would use duck tape


ya but duct tape sticks to the wound and rips off the scab. Its good for eveything else though :wavetowel2:


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## storm2410 (Aug 23, 2014)

tspencer 

I'd recommend trying a repower with a Harbor Freight Predator. I have a Troybilt storm 2410 that I repowered with a 212cc Predator. Easy swap out. Just bought a sleeve to convert the predator 3/4 to 7/8. Used stock pulleys and belts


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

storm2410 said:


> tspencer
> 
> I'd recommend trying a repower with a Harbor Freight Predator. I have a Troybilt storm 2410 that I repowered with a 212cc Predator. Easy swap out. Just bought a sleeve to convert the predator 3/4 to 7/8. Used stock pulleys and belts


He has a dual shaft engine, complicates things quite a bit.


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