# Ariens ST504 Rebuild



## Gantt

New to the Forum and wanted a place to log the rebuild of my new-to-me Ariens, seek advice, etc. (mods-if this isn't the right place to post this feel free to move it) 

So I picked up a bit of a basket case ST504 today for cheap. This is my first personal snowblower and I'm excited about it. The Ariens seem like pretty decent machines.

I need a new project like I need a hole in my head, but the motor runs great and it was cheap... Plus I like tinkering and fixing old machines anyway; much more appealing to me than buying new. 

Plans are to bring it up to snuff mechanically and maybe restore it cosmetically, although I'm not worried about it looking pretty before this winter, obviously. 

Couple overall shots:



I haven't dated the serial number yet, but the prior owner though it was a '79 or '80 model. I'll research it one of these days...


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## Gantt

So jumping into it, the first thing noted right from the start are some decently bent augers:




Also electrical tape on the shift handle LOL:


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## Gantt

Started tearing into it tonight to see just what I got myself into:


First thing is a pretty crusty friction wheel. Although it seems to power around just fine, who knows how this wheel will handle pushing a real load:


When I flipped it on it's face I noted the whole machine flexed quite a bit-more so than I would consider acceptable. Investigation yielded several broken welds on the impeller/auger mounting barrel (or so I'll call it ):


Pics don't show it well, but 3 of 4 stitch welds are cracked. It's no issue for me to weld these back up, and add a few extra, but are there any concerns lining the housing mount back up? How should I get it back to square?

Another question; the entire auger housing is stitch welded, including the scoop. Is there any value in fully welding everything, or am I wasting consumables, time and introducing warping issues?

While I was poking around I noticed some prior welding repair. I'm not sure what happened, but it's clear this thing has been through the wringer:


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## Gantt

Seperating the tractor from the attachment... I'm still shocked how easy these things are to work on. I pulled the two apart until the brake cleared, which let the belt come off the pulley cleanly:


When I was inspecting the oil I noted the plug had a broken tab. I'll pick up another because it wasn't easy to unscrew with just one:


The discharge chute seemed extra wobbly, and I think I found the problem; a couple loose bolts and one broken one:

I'll figure out the thread and size and replace all of them.

The belts both seemed to be in decent shape (surprisingly for a 35 year old neglected machine), although the traction drive belt much less so than the attachment belt. I might end up replacing both just because.


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## Gantt

Last issues discovered tonight:
There's some concerning play in the camshaft pulley/friction flywheel shaft bearing (imagine wiggling the assembly how I have it grasped):

I didn't have a chance to examine how the bearing was mounted, but I'm assuming any play=bad.

There was also a concerning amount of play in the friction wheel shaft:

So I'm going to order those too. They look super easy to replace.


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## Gantt

So, besides the issues I've uncovered thus far, does anyone know what else I should look for? I also plan to tune up the carb, change the engine and crankcase oil, new filter, spark plug, etc. 

I won't be able to work on it for the next 2 weeks (pushing it for snow season, I know), but that should give me time to get everything ordered. 

Also wheres the best places to get parts from? How readily available are parts for these older machines?


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## Gantt

Oh-also, how big of a deal are the bent augers? Obviously it will affect how well they feed the impeller, but should replacing them be on the top of my list, or can I get away with just straightening them?


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## Shryp

I would just try and straighten the augers. The more important think with the augers is to remove the shear pins and make sure they are correct shear pins and not regular bolts. Also make sure the augers spin on the shaft and have not seized solid with rust. The way the augers are damaged also makes me somewhat concerned about the condition of the gearcase. It must have taken a heck of a beating to make them look like that. Those are pretty sturdy.

For parts I have used:

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Lawn Mower Parts - more expensive, OEM parts, $9.99 flat rate shipping I think.

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## Gantt

Shryp said:


> I would just try and straighten the augers. The more important think with the augers is to remove the shear pins and make sure they are correct shear pins and not regular bolts. Also make sure the augers spin on the shaft and have not seized solid with rust. The way the augers are damaged also makes me somewhat concerned about the condition of the gearcase. It must have taken a heck of a beating to make them look like that. Those are pretty sturdy.


Didn't think about that; I'll see if they're seized (probably). I guess I can soak them in PB to try to free them up. 

Should the auger/shaft have any side to side play at the gearcase? I might just take the gearcase all apart to assess it's condition.


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## cancon

I just arrived here two weeks ago with a 932006 which I believe to be the predecessor to your ST504. Mine wasn't as bad structurally but I did mod the fuel system to incorporate a fuel shut-off and filter (the mesh screen inside the tank had come loose). Thinking all I had to fix was a bad washer on my carb, I now have the blower section in pieces on the floor...didn't realize when I bought the thing because it works fine under no load. The worm gear in the auger gearbox was shot! 

To echo Shryp's comments - stop everything and check the gearbox.
With blower removed or spark plug disconnected, check to see that the augers never rotate if you try and move them by hand (due to the nature of the worm drive system), the impeller needs to be spinning for them to move. Start by rotating the impeller by hand and make sure the augers rotate. Every full revolution of the impeller check to see if the augers are still locked. Do this until the augers have completed a full revolution. If you find a spot with excessive free play in the augers or the spinning impeller fails to rotate the augers, then you probably have a broken tooth on the worm drive gear. Given the state of those rakes...well...it would be the first thing to check. 

Head over to Scot's awesome Ariens site and dig up your parts manual.
I just ordered a carb rebuild kit and shear pins from ebay. The gearbox rebuild stuff came from Jack's small engine repair. I got the fuel system parts from a local mower repair place. Almost every part number in the old manuals should still be the same but with "00" added to each code. Most of them are still around.

Edit: the auger shaft woodruff key, found inside the gearbox worm gear should prevent any significant side-to-side play in the shaft.


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## Grunt

Hello and welcome to the forum Gantt. Not to add insult to injury, but, that carb is not the original to that motor or that motor is not original to that snow blower. I believe the carb is off a lawn mower since it HAS an air filter, a primer bulb ON the carb and NO heat box usually needed for winter operation. I also do not see a shaft for a choke plate which helps cold weather starting. If you post the engine numbers stamped into the top of the recoil shroud near the spark plug, we could find the correct carb number. Sorry to add to your list of things to do.


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## Gantt

On the way out this morning I grabbed the model and serial number:


I also did the test cancon described above and there were no spots where the auger and impeller weren't locked together. I also put pressure on the auger and while spinning impeller pulley and there was only one spot things didn't feel smooth; nothing like a broken tooth would feel like though. 

What had me more concerned was the side to side play in the gearbox housing. If I hold the augers and rotate the impeller shaft back and forth, the housing walks back and forth on the auger shaft about 3/8''. Does this woodruff key ever break or wear down, or is this normal? 

Also there is slight rotational play between the two augers, so I know at least one of them isn't seized up (I assume the auger shaft is one piece). 

I'll pull the shear pins this weekend and dig into it further.


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## Gantt

Grunt said:


> Hello and welcome to the forum Gantt. Not to add insult to injury, but, that carb is not the original to that motor or that motor is not original to that snow blower. I believe the carb is off a lawn mower since it HAS an air filter, a primer bulb ON the carb and NO heat box usually needed for winter operation. I also do not see a shaft for a choke plate which helps cold weather starting. If you post the engine numbers stamped into the top of the recoil shroud near the spark plug, we could find the correct carb number. Sorry to add to your list of things to do.


Hmmm, good to know... I'll grab those numbers too.

Small engines aren't my forte, but I didn't notice it didn't have a choke. I just assumed that was factory. 

Like I said, basket case LOL


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## Grunt

According to Scott's great Ariens site, your model is a 78 or 79 and these are the manuals for your machine.

Ariens Order Owners Manuals


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## Shryp

I believe that is one of the models that offered a roto tiller attachment for the front. That could be the reason for the lack of a heat box and the air filter. I know the older ones said to remove the heat box and add the air filter when using during the summer. Maybe they got lost along the way.

Side to side play would be no good. Maybe you should open the gear box and check the bushings inside and maybe regrease it.


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## Gantt

Shryp said:


> I believe that is one of the models that offered a roto tiller attachment for the front. That could be the reason for the lack of a heat box and the air filter. I know the older ones said to remove the heat box and add the air filter when using during the summer. Maybe they got lost along the way.
> 
> Side to side play would be no good. Maybe you should open the gear box and check the bushings inside and maybe regrease it.


I do not have a primer on the engine cover also, if you look at the pic of the gear lever.

The only thing I got out of the previous owner was that it was owned by the State of Colorado, so that also explains it's abuse. 

Yeah, I think I'll crack the gearbox open and see what's going on.


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## db9938

Not that I have much to offer, but I did notice that in one of the images, you can make out the word Craftsman on the plastic air cleaner shroud. This may mean, as others have suggested, that it was a take-off from a lawn mower. The only concern with this would be if the carb was large enough for the particular engine model. There should be numbers on the side of the carb, that can be referenced on the Sears website, to verify the original engines size. 

The primer and choke, will make cold starts more challenging, but not impossible.


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## cancon

To me, this looks like identical to my 932006 and I'd bet that is an HS-50 Tec. engine. 
Where do you guys see a primer? I can vaguely make out a primer bulb hiding behind the governor linkage where the "craftsman" airfilter is visible, but I'm not certain. 

My HS50 has a self-priming carb. The numbers on top are 568 8J22 (Tecumseh part number 631914). There is a Tecumseh carburetor identification pdf online as well as info in the Tecumseh technicians handbook, also online and on Scot's site I believe. These will help you ID your carb.


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## Grunt

cancon said:


> To me, this looks like identical to my 932006 and I'd bet that is an HS-50 Tec. engine.
> Where do you guys see a primer? I can vaguely make out a primer bulb hiding behind the governor linkage where the "craftsman" airfilter is visible, but I'm not certain.
> 
> My HS50 has a self-priming carb. The numbers on top are 568 8J22 (Tecumseh part number 631914). There is a Tecumseh carburetor identification pdf online as well as info in the Tecumseh technicians handbook, also online and on Scot's site I believe. These will help you ID your carb.


Yes the primer bulb is visible behind the governor arm, and I agree, it is a Tecumseh HS50 engine. Your carb (631914) has a choke plate and adjustable idle and high speed needles that this one does not have. Considering it was used by the state, county or who ever, it looks like they threw on a carb from a low emissions lawn mower engine in order to keep it running. Just my opinion.


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## Gantt

It is a Tec, here's the number:

Still confused about why the engine cover doesn't have a primer on it... maybe it was transplanted off of something else. Did any Ariens have a non-primer engine cover?

Here's some more pics of the carb in question:


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## Gantt

I took the gear case apart and feel better about things.
Had to use a puller on this guy:


Assembly out:


Lo and behold it does have shear bolts in it:


And the augers were not seized!


I marked them in case they have to go back together the same (pic for my own reference):


Apart:


Some brass build up here, but really not as bad as I was expecting:


Condition of the gear:





So I guess the side to side play was normal-ish. I can replace the bushings just in case the trust washers have worn the face of them down some. 

What do you guys think of the gear? Is it worth replacing or does it look good to run?


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## Shryp

It is probably OK, but that grease has seen better days. Was there any grease in there or only crusty stuff?

And yes, left and right matter as well as twisting them around. They have to go back how they came off. They can spin, but they can't have the inside and outside flipped.


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## Gantt

Only crusty stuff. I didn't clean anything off for those pics. New grease is in order for sure.


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## Shryp

I put some generic '00' grease in mine instead of buying the Ariens stuff. We shall see how that holds up.


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## Gantt

Never heard of the stuff; I'll give it a shot. When I put it back together do I just pack the housings, or do you fill it up through the plug?


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## Shryp

It comes in a bottle similar to gear oil so I squirted some around the gears and on the shafts before putting the bushings over and then squirted some through the fill plug after I put it together. I figure getting some extra in there can't hurt, but this one my first one like that.

I bought the big bottle:
http://www.mfgsupply.com/mower/mowertools/mowertoolsgrease/32-9089.html

They have a smaller one too:
http://www.mfgsupply.com/mower/mowertools/mowertoolsgrease/32-19088.html

If you have a Tractor Supply close by that could be worth investigating:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/super-s-cotton-picker-spindle-grease-00

I used some Grey Permatex RTV gasket maker I had left over from some other stuff instead of buying a gasket for it. Also reused the bushings in mine since I didn't want to spend a lot of money on it. I did put a washer behind the bushing on the end of the impeller shaft since the shaft had some front and back play in it where the bushing was worn. I just shimmed in for a tighter fit.


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## cancon

Here is a great re-assembly video for the auger gearbox, applicable to your model:






Also, double check that the woodruff key is not abused, could be causing your sideways play - I think the key should be as wide, or wider than the gear.

For reference, here is a link for the Arien's brand grease for this gearbox.


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## Shryp

I think his sideways play is the bushings and washers. Most likely from lack of grease.


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## Gantt

Great video. Thanks. 

This bucket is in pretty sad shape. 

And some yahoo welded the scraper on:


Not sure how I'm going to straighten it out. I can cut off the lip and weld a new strip on... And a new scraper. I'll have to mess around with that when I get back in town.


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## Gantt

Key looks good so I'll go with new bushings.


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## Grunt

This is a link to the engine parts according to your model number (HS50-67008C). The serial number (9355B) starting with a "9" would indicate the engine is a 1979 model which matches the confirmed snow blowers birthday of 1979 according to Scotts site. The correct\original carb was a 632107 which has now been superseded by 640084B. The primer bulb could\would have been on the heat box which is missing. If the engine runs good with the current carb setup, just use it as is. Your making great progress, keep up the good work.

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## Gantt

Thanks Grunt. Unfortunately progress will cease for a couple weeks while I'm gone, but at least I got it torn down enough to figure out what needs to be ordered. 

Thanks for the carb info! I think I'll look for a heat cover locally, maybe I can find one with a primer bulb. Then I'll decide if I want to put the correct carb back on it. It runs fine as is but a choke would be nice; although we don't have the cold that some of you do, so starting it as-is shouldn't be a huge deal.


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## Gantt

Hi all, I'm back home and back on this project. 

We had a bit of a cold snap in Colorado and I'm sad that I missed the first snow of the season. It wasn't enough to warrant blowing, but enough to motivate me to get back to this now that I'm home...

I came home to a bunch of parts needed for putting the Ariens back together, but first and foremost is repairing the damaged bucket. I started with cutting off the old mangled scraper mounting lip:


Then I pounded, straightened and cleaned up the remainder of the bottom of the housing. It was twisted in pretty much every direction:


Marking holes for the new scraper on a strip of 1/8'' I had; not sure how wide... A little overkill, yes, but that's what was around:


Mocked up. You can see where I'm going with this:


I thought I had everything pretty straight, but I still had to tack and align quite a bit to get it all right:


And then I ran out of gas, which figures 
So I made up some caps to tie in the new 'scraper mount' to the sides where the skids mount. Should tie both sides in well and add a lot of rigidity:


I'll get some gas this week and weld it up then paint. I don't have a HVLP sprayer, so I'll have to spray bomb it, which isn't ideal obviously. Searching revealed the Rustoleum engine chevy orange or industrial 'AC' paint. Which is more robust?


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## Shryp

I used the Rustoleum Chevy orange spray cans on mine and it seems to scratch pretty easy. The gloss black I put on the augers seems to be holding up better. Suppose it could just be that I didn't prep it well enough. I had used some self etching primer after using a wire wheel on it and the grey from the primer seems to be holding under the scratches though.


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## Gantt

Found some time this afternoon so I welded the bucket up. It's been a LONG time since I last welded sheet metal and I normally don't post pictures of my welds, but these came out decent so I snapped a pic:


And then this pile caught fire after wire wheeling for 2 minutes:


Stupid China junk... So I'm going to go work on my WJ instead lol


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## db9938

Real nice work. One of these days, I'm going to learn how to weld.


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## 43128

strange, i have the black hf grinder and its served me well for about 5 years now


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## Gantt

Welding and fabricating has been an incredibly enjoyable hobby for me over the years. I don't think there's ever been a day I've headed into the shop with the intention of fabricating something from metal and came out frustrated. I recommend everyone try it out. 

Funny, I'm on my 4th 'burgundy' Harbor grinder in probably 3 months. I'm annoyed to say the least. I'll give the black ones a try. I usually have 2-3 at any given time cause they are so cheap, but this is my last burgundy one.


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## Shryp

Yeah, I have one of the black ones and have had it about 4 years. I don't use it a lot, but never any problems. I did use it with the wire wheel kit to strip my blower when I first got it, but that was the only big prolonged use I used it for. Everything else is small 2 minute projects. Has been a life saver for cutting off old rusted bolts.

Used it for cutting out some sheet metal for making my impeller kit on 1 Ariens and cutting some reinforcement brackets for a single stage Craftsman that I broke the aluminum auger mount flange off of.


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## Gantt

I'm back... it never ceases to amaze me how busy I get. With work, house projects and the holidays, I've had to put this project on the back burner; but I've made some progress, so here's some updates:

Because of how I rebuilt the bucket I had to 'massage' the new scraper slightly to get it fitted well:


Finished the bucket and primed it. Not sure why I chose such a dark primer; it'll will affect the final color somewhat:


Painted:

I went with the Chevy Orange. Seemed the easiest to obtain. We'll see how well it holds up.

Started working on the tractor:


Tear down:


More:


Had to use a puller on this guy again:


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## Gantt

Well I went this far, might as well:




More mysteries of this machine; that's gunked up grass nastiness I'm scraping off:

Maybe this tractor had a summer attachment on it, which would explain the carb, etc.

The abuse of this machine dumbfounds me; if you refer to the last post you'll see the thrust bearing for the drive plate is crooked. The bearing was not pushing on the flange evenly which I didn't like the looks of. It appeared to me the factory welded the forks on crooked, but it could have also been caused from abuse. Another pic to show the problem:


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## Gantt

So out came the welder again. Cut a slit:


Aligned it how I wanted, welded and ground smooth and all is well:


Bearing is even now:


The shift lever was all tweaked, to the point that there was no 3rd forward speed, reverse was neutral and neutral was a slow forward speed. Spent some time bending it back so all gears function as should (no pics).

Reassembly:


Degreased the engine:


Boy, was this stuff hard to find:

I tried hard to find it locally. Called around to hardware stores, Snapper dealers, and even Ariens repair facilities and nobody seemed to know what I was talking about. Ended up ordering it online, which is what I should have done in the first place. To those doing the same, just order it from the get go. 

Sealed the gear box up with this stuff:

It's the only RTV I'll ever use. Coming from an off-road guy, I've sealed stuff up on the trail that I never should have been able to. It's awesome stuff.


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## Gantt

Bent the augers back straight, which was less of a pain than I anticipated. Went ahead and added zerks while I was at it:


Painted assembly ready to go back in:


So that's where I'm at. The tractor is back together and everything feels good. I'll start reassembling the bucket this week and hopefully have it wrapped up soon. 

We had a good storm on Christmas day (~10-12'') so I'm bummed I didn't get to test it out then, but hopefully we have another good storm in the next couple weeks.


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## Shryp

Looks great! Can't wait to see how it works in some snow.

As for your question about the air filter, I have seen that style of blower with the shift lever low and in the back with a front tine tiller attachment.


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## Gantt

Shryp said:


> Looks great! Can't wait to see how it works in some snow.
> 
> As for your question about the air filter, I have seen that style of blower with the shift lever low and in the back with a front tine tiller attachment.


Thanks, Shryp! This has been much more of a project than I originally anticipated, but in the end I should (hopefully) have a nice blower that'll last me a good long while. 

From research, the tiller attachment seemed somewhat common for this generation of machine so I'm betting it was set up for that at some point.


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## HillnGullyRider

Nice work, I have one of these 504's and there's not many who would go to the trouble on this grade of machine, so it's nice to see it documented. What ever the previous owner did, it looks like they used and abused it. I sure hope the hard to find HS engine still has serviceable life in it. I can tell you from first hand experience that soil and debris get everywhere when using the tiller attachment on these, especially if, as often times is the case, they are used without the fender. So much so that you have to be careful that soil and pebbles don't get lodged between the belt and attachment pulley. You also have to be careful larger rocks don't come up into that gearbox area. I've thought about fabricating a bottom skid plate to reduce potential damage for this type of use. 

All that grass and and soil up on those tires is a sign yours was used to till, I just hope they used the actual tilling attachment instead of the auger LOL.


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## db9938

Well at least there appears to be a late model air filter set up, so hopefully the previous owner took the initiative with that.


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## Gantt

Picked up a portable heater for the shop cause it's been so cold and put in a couple hours today. 

Bucket back together:

Everything went together fine. I was hoping to finish it up today but I gotta head in. 

Also found a broken bolt for the muffler... Chased the threads in the head and fixed that and put a new gasket on it. I'll have it back together this week and then it's waiting for snow to test it out.


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## detdrbuzzard

you have really put a lot into you 504 and it shows, nice workmanship gantt


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## GustoGuy

Gantt said:


> Found some time this afternoon so I welded the bucket up. It's been a LONG time since I last welded sheet metal and I normally don't post pictures of my welds, but these came out decent so I snapped a pic:
> 
> 
> And then this pile caught fire after wire wheeling for 2 minutes:
> 
> 
> Stupid China junk... So I'm going to go work on my WJ instead lol


Chicago Electric. That is a Harbor Freight Product. Did it break on You? I have a cheap angle grinder that I bought 4 or 5 years ago at Menards and even though it is made in China yet it works great. Is that an 8hp Tecumseh 2 shaft engine? You did a nice job fixixing the bucket. Nice penetration on your welds. Which welder do you have? It should be a beast since it is now built like a tank.


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## HillnGullyRider

Gantt said:


> Picked up a portable heater for the shop cause it's been so cold and put in a couple hours today.
> 
> Bucket back together:
> 
> Everything went together fine. I was hoping to finish it up today but I gotta head in.


You might want shorter bolts on that scraper bar, those might catch


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## Gantt

GustoGuy said:


> Chicago Electric. That is a Harbor Freight Product. Did it break on You? I have a cheap angle grinder that I bought 4 or 5 years ago at Menards and even though it is made in China yet it works great. Is that an 8hp Tecumseh 2 shaft engine? You did a nice job fixixing the bucket. Nice penetration on your welds. Which welder do you have? It should be a beast since it is now built like a tank.


Yeah that's a Harbor freight grinder. I've lost count on how many have failed on me over the years, but for the record I'm pretty hard on grinders. 

In general in have no issue with China tools; they certainly have their place. Some tools I don't mind buying Chinese while others I'm picky about having American made. For example I've been collecting craftsman 'v' vintage hand tools, but I also have some 90's Taiwan-made power tools that have been very reliable.

Welder is a Lincoln 175 amp unit, which has been great, but I'm currently on the hunt for a Miller 35 just for better duty cycle and simplicity. 

No that's a hs50, 5hp motor.


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## Gantt

HillnGullyRider said:


> You might want shorter bolts on that scraper bar, those might catch


Good catch. I was going to cut them flush... Those were the shortest I could find. I noticed the old bolts were worn down through the nuts so had planned on that.


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## Gantt

Got it back together. Changed the oil, gas (with sea foam) and spark plug and fired her up... Runs fine just like it did, although it's not a one pull starter in the cold. I think I will convert the carb over. Already have a heater box on the way, but for now it's done and will be put into service. 


The belt guard isn't on it cause I'm still making adjustments to the linkages, but everything is silky smooth...


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## Gantt

But for the most part that wraps up this project. Now I'm just waiting for snow, which we might get some tomorrow. I'll try to get a pic or video of it being used!


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## detdrbuzzard

great work, better than new now


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## HillnGullyRider

That's the cleanest 504 I've ever seen, and you haven't even given the engine a DuPont rebuild yet. Are you going to do decals?


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## Gantt

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the props!



HillnGullyRider said:


> That's the cleanest 504 I've ever seen, and you haven't even given the engine a DuPont rebuild yet. Are you going to do decals?


The engine will get some detail love when I switch the carb over (which will probably not be this winter) and it still needs a good cleaning and touch up paint from assembly. I'm not sure on the decals... I assume they are still available?

It's not as clean as the pics make it out to be, and there's still some twist in the bucket, so I feel like it's not worth going crazy on. I only went as far as I did because I was in there anyway. Maybe I'll find an older full size machine to do a real restoration on... I was eyeing a good looking early 70's Simplicity a few weeks back LOL

No snow today


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## HillnGullyRider

Gantt said:


> Thanks guys, I really do appreciate the props!
> 
> 
> 
> The engine will get some detail love when I switch the carb over (which will probably not be this winter) and it still needs a good cleaning and touch up paint from assembly. I'm not sure on the decals... I assume they are still available?
> 
> 
> No snow today


I highly doubt the originals are available, It's actually easier to get decals for the 60's machines than it is for 80's and 90's machines. At least you still have the nice ST 504 nameplate.


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## Gantt

Got to use it finally... 

Made a rookie mistake; ventured into an unkempt area and picked up a stick that made it all the way to the impeller jamming it, but other than that it worked great.


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## HillnGullyRider

You should post some of these pics to Ariens facebook page


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## detdrbuzzard

now its looking good and working as it should, can't beat that


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## HillnGullyRider

*Compact housing comparo*

Gantt here's something you may find interesting. Those early compact housings had larger chute openings, plus they didn't have the 3/4 inch lip that extends from the back of the housing as on the new ones. They had wider impeller blades as well. The 1st-3rd generation housings had 10" impellers; some 4 blade, some 3 blade, but they gave the impeller more speed than the newer 12" impellers (4th gen). They used a 7 inch pulley on the early ones (gen 2-3) and a 8 1/2" pulley on the later models (gen 4). As far as I can tell, they all use a 5 1/2" chute...That means the newer Sno-Tek plastic (THF) chutes might work on the older housings, and those are dirt cheap ($30 or so). It could improve throwing performance on an early unit like the 504.


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## Gantt

HillnGullyRider said:


> Gantt here's something you may find interesting. Those early compact housings had larger chute openings, plus they didn't have the 3/4 inch lip that extends from the back of the housing as on the new ones. They had wider impeller blades as well. The 1st-3rd generation housings had 10" impellers; some 4 blade, some 3 blade, but they gave the impeller more speed than the newer 12" impellers (4th gen). They used a 7 inch pulley on the early ones (gen 2-3) and a 8 1/2" pulley on the later models (gen 4). As far as I can tell, they all use a 5 1/2" chute...That means the newer Sno-Tek plastic (THF) chutes might work on the older housings, and those are dirt cheap ($30 or so). It could improve throwing performance on an early unit like the 504.


Huh, that is interesting... And truthfully I was a little disappointed in my throw but didn't comment on it thinking I would get used to the machine first before jumping to conclusions. I initially thought it could be a combo of really sticky/heavy snow, a possibly weak motor and/or improperly adjusted attachment belt. At one point it started throwing really well so I also thought it could be because it was only 2" of snow... 

But since we're on the subject, approximately how far should a compact 2 stage throw in a given snow condition? At what point should I be concerned?


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## HillnGullyRider

You will get used to it somewhat, but the 504, with a tired "small block" L head, will never be a distance champ. It's been half a dozen years since I ran the 24" housing on the 504 (I only use the chassis for a tiller now), but from memory It did much better in fresh powder, and in heavy wet snowcrete it would barely come burbling out. You have to get used to throwing half across the drive then catching it on the return pass. That compounds matters because pre thrown snow is all that much harder to lift. 
In a perfect world it would be nice to just throw a 210cc predator on there and give it a new lease on life, but that is a no go on the disk drive 932's as they require a cam driven pulley. You'd have to find a used OHV Storm force (which is probably no easy task). That's why i like the auger driven 932's or the newer 939/920's. 
But back to the subject, The pulleys and belts must be fresh, I also suspect that the short chute is a big part of the problem. Also , rust probably affects distance greatly on old compacts. You should be using PAM or sno-jet coating.

On these compacts, their specialty is working in close to vehicles, shrubbery, fences etc...the narrow ones do good on uneven concrete in these situations. For this you want a tall chute to lift the snow up and over things. I don't care so much that it may only throw 20 feet, as long as it goes up 6 feet first. Anyways that's my take.

There are some possible improvements but it will cost money, and at that point you really have to decide whether to cut and run, or experiment. I'm going to try to experiment with a THF chute, but I may not get to it this season as I have bigger fish to fry. I could point you down the proper avenue if you want to give it a go?

PS: Check the clearance from the tip of the impeller to the housing, you may want to add an impeller kit if the L head seems healthy.


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## Gantt

HillnGullyRider said:


> You will get used to it somewhat, but the 504, with a tired "small block" L head, will never be a distance champ. It's been half a dozen years since I ran the 24" housing on the 504 (I only use the chassis for a tiller now), but from memory It did much better in fresh powder, and in heavy wet snowcrete it would barely come burbling out. You have to get used to throwing half across the drive then catching it on the return pass. That compounds matters because pre thrown snow is all that much harder to lift.
> In a perfect world it would be nice to just throw a 210cc predator on there and give it a new lease on life, but that is a no go on the disk drive 932's as they require a cam driven pulley. You'd have to find a used OHV Storm force (which is probably no easy task). That's why i like the auger driven 932's or the newer 939/920's.
> But back to the subject, The pulleys and belts must be fresh, I also suspect that the short chute is a big part of the problem. Also , rust probably affects distance greatly on old compacts. You should be using PAM or sno-jet coating.
> 
> On these compacts, their specialty is working in close to vehicles, shrubbery, fences etc...the narrow ones do good on uneven concrete in these situations. For this you want a tall chute to lift the snow up and over things. I don't care so much that it may only throw 20 feet, as long as it goes up 6 feet first. Anyways that's my take.
> 
> There are some possible improvements but it will cost money, and at that point you really have to decide whether to cut and run, or experiment. I'm going to try to experiment with a THF chute, but I may not get to it this season as I have bigger fish to fry. I could point you down the proper avenue if you want to give it a go?
> 
> PS: Check the clearance from the tip of the impeller to the housing, you may want to add an impeller kit if the L head seems healthy.


A lot to think about.... I'm willing to experiment with an impeller 'kit' as I have a few old tires sitting around and can fab that up easily. 

Is my motor tired? I have no idea. Not sure I'm willing to mess with converting it to overhead when it runs as is but it's worth considering for sure. 

As far as the chute and compact aspect goes... Well that's pretty much the reason I got this thrower and put time/money in it... I live in a lower snowfall area compared to you Lake-zone peeps and have lots of vehicles and rv parking to work around. I thought a compact would serve me best albeit still overkill.

I will run it through it's paces before making any rash decisions but for now I'm happy to have a working thrower for sure!


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## Copper116

I am in the process of working on an ST824 and found the shaft bearing on the main drive shaft from the motor to the gearbox was totally worn out, demonstrated by a lot of play at the main drive pulley. Getting the cast iron hub off wasn't easy, neither was getting the hub key out. Just check that area too before you get too far into it. Around $100.00 should fix that if the shaft is not damaged. Good luck.


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## Gantt

Copper116 said:


> I am in the process of working on an ST824 and found the shaft bearing on the main drive shaft from the motor to the gearbox was totally worn out, demonstrated by a lot of play at the main drive pulley. Getting the cast iron hub off wasn't easy, neither was getting the hub key out. Just check that area too before you get too far into it. Around $100.00 should fix that if the shaft is not damaged. Good luck.


Are you talking about the bearing on the back of the impeller shaft, at the attachment pulley? That was replaced... It was wasted. 

I also replaced the bushings on the friction disk/drive pulley shaft.


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## dhazelton

Nice job! Your nice long welds on sheet metal without warping is impressive. One thing I have to ask about, and if it was addressed already just ignore me: The air cleaner on the engine looks like one I had on a Sears lawn mower (a foam plug in a plastic basket). Isn't that going to draw water into the carb without some kind of shield on it?


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## Gantt

dhazelton said:


> Nice job! Your nice long welds on sheet metal without warping is impressive. One thing I have to ask about, and if it was addressed already just ignore me: The air cleaner on the engine looks like one I had on a Sears lawn mower (a foam plug in a plastic basket). Isn't that going to draw water into the carb without some kind of shield on it?


Yeah it will probably get pretty saturated. I have a heat box but can't really mount it with that carb. I'm currently looking for a non-rediculously priced stock carb to convert it over. Also, the cover I bought has the kill switch on it, does anyone know if it can be wired to my ignition coil? Did all the ignition coils have the terminal on them for the kill switch? Theoretically I'd just have to supply a ground to the coil body to kill it, correct?


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## cancon

I have a '78 932, 5HP 24" which got to use last night (yesssss!) on about 8" of light snow. No impeller kit, but I don't want to bother, especially since the tolerance of the paddles to impeller housing is acceptable. I think 10-15 feet throw is acceptable if conditions are right - the deflector at the top of the chute needs to be fully "up" for any kind of distance to be achieved. The moment you lower the deflector the throw is greatly reduced. 

I think this is what you get for a 5HP two stage machine...it's a light-weight! I love it, however, because I'm in the city and have neighbor's property and cars close by to worry about, plus I'm a new operator and lets not forget this baby picks up lots of gravel on my property... so the short throw is favorable. It's enough to clear around the 4 car's worth of parking, sidewalk, front walk and alley. So far it's had no problem with picking up pre-thrown snow but I don't even bother attempting the snowcrete left by the city plow. When I get a place in the country I'll buy a ride-on with plow attachment and pulverize anything in my path.


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## HillnGullyRider

Gantt said:


> Yeah it will probably get pretty saturated. I have a heat box but can't really mount it with that carb. I'm currently looking for a non-rediculously priced stock carb to convert it over. Also, the cover I bought has the kill switch on it, does anyone know if it can be wired to my ignition coil? Did all the ignition coils have the terminal on them for the kill switch? Theoretically I'd just have to supply a ground to the coil body to kill it, correct?


Isn't there a keyed kill switch on the dash?


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## Gantt

HillnGullyRider said:


> Isn't there a keyed kill switch on the dash?


Not on this one, nope.


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## dhazelton

This will probably sound stupid, but I wonder if you just screwed a larger diameter soup can or something to the end of the filter if it would draw enough air in and keep the filter dry.You could always drill some holes in the side that faces the ground. Jury rigged but could work.


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## HillnGullyRider

Chinese carbs for the Hssk50 are less than $20 shipped


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## Gantt

HillnGullyRider said:


> Chinese carbs for the Hssk50 are less than $20 shipped


Are they worth hassling with? I was always told stay oem with small engine carbs... 

I could slap a pantyhose on the filter too LOL


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## HillnGullyRider

Well they work very good on clone motors....The Tec carb is about $90 if you insist on American. My thinking is the Chinese carbs are good for cheap troubleshooting at minimum


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## bkaser90

I have the same blower, an st504. I got mine last year from the original owner, and as far as I can tell, its all original. mine will throw the light fluffy snow pretty far, a good 15 ft at least. it does have some trouble w/ the heavy wet snow though. this was my first snow blower though and I got it for $200, so I am quite happy with it. Nice write up on your rebuild and I will be using this thread for reference when I redo mine. hopefully this summer. I am gonna need to do some work on the scraper bar as you have done.


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## Gantt

First failure... 

Inflated to factory specs. Might just be old dry rot or something. 

After using it a few times the throw seems better, 6+ feet with semi heavy snow. Seems about right.


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## Grunt

Gantt said:


> First failure... Inflated to factory specs. Might just be old dry rot or something.


Factory specs in the owners manual or the sidewall of the tire? Most people put around 10PSI in their tires.


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## Grunt

Gantt said:


> Also, the cover I bought has the kill switch on it, does anyone know if it can be wired to my ignition coil? Did all the ignition coils have the terminal on them for the kill switch? Theoretically I'd just have to supply a ground to the coil body to kill it, correct?


 Yes, all ignition coils have a tab for connecting a kill switch wire to them.


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## Gantt

In the manual. I think it was 10 or so.


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## HillnGullyRider

You need some fresh snow hogs for that thing, the good news is they are only about $20 a piece for the tiny ones


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## HillnGullyRider

Gantt, what size auger pulley do you have on that thing? they make 3 sizes ; 7 , 8 and 8.5". I think 7 is stock, but a larger one might lift heavy snow better.


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## Gantt

HillnGullyRider said:


> You need some fresh snow hogs for that thing, the good news is they are only about $20 a piece for the tiny ones


I just threw a new tube in it because we're supposed to get more snow tonight. Not sure on the pulley size. I'll have to measure. A larger pulley would equal slower spinning right?


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## HillnGullyRider

Yes, slower spinning, more torque to the snow...I'm not sure it would fit without removing the pulley brake though. I know my 939 uses an 8.5 pulley, so theoretically it will fit in a 504 frame.


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## Krzysztof Remiasz

What size inner tube did you replace? Do you happen to have a link to the one you bought?


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## Oneacer

You realize this is a post from five years ago, right?


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