# Snowmageddon Survivor



## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

Greetings from St. John's NL all,

After what was last winter an absolute unusually brutal winter here ( https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/pov-paris-marx-snowstorm-1.5439420) , I swore it was to be my last winter without a snowblower. 

As this will be my first ever snow blower I have done a lot of research and have found this forum to be chuck full of good info.

I have a standard size two car width wide driveway with slight slope and was very interested in getting your input on which snowblower would be best suited for my needs keeping in mind the winters we get here in St. John's.

I have it narrowed down to 4 that I feel are my best bet but am open to any other suggestions and open to all input thanks.

In no particular order :

https://www.ariens.com/en-us/power-equipment/snow-products/snow-blowers/platinum/platinum-24-sho

https://www.toro.com/en-ca/homeowner/snow-blowers/power-max-hd-1028-ohxe-38841

https://www.cubcadet.ca/en/snow-blowers/2x-28/31AH5DST596.html#start=6

https://www.ariens.com/en-us/power-equipment/snow-products/snow-blowers/deluxe/deluxe-28-sho

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to reply, cheers.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Welcome to the forum Charlie'sPal. 
I commend you for taking the time to research your future snowblower purchase, looks like you have narrowed it down to 4 powerful decent quality machines.
The following are my picks in order of preference.

1. Ariens Platinum 24 SHO
2. Ariens Deluxe 28 SHO
3. Toro Max HD 1028
4. Cub Cadet 

As you have a smaller drive way (4 car?), I think a 24" blower will be your best choice for maneuverability and storage. The 24 SHO has a great power to bucket width ratio and should be up to the task no matter what the Atlantic Canadian winter can throw at it.
I have a Deluxe 28 SHO and am very happy with it's build quality, Auto turn, and performance. I have a fairly long U shaped gravel driveway with several parking pads and the blower handled a 24" snowstorm last winter flawlessly.
I would recommend trying to check each of the blowers out in person, to get a hands on impression of each. Dealer reputation and location near you might also factor into your decision making. I would definitely try to purchase your chosen machine from a dealer.

I assume you have narrowed your choices based on $ budget. If money is not a consideration you may also want to consider Yamaha and Honda.

Cheers!


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## jerryvvv (Apr 23, 2020)

With the amount of snow you get out there, I would recommend a minimum 350cc engine, ariens, toro, or cub cadet are all great machines


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

Thank you Ziggy65 for taking the time out of your day to reply to my thread, it's much appreciated. 

My driveway is just a two car driveway but is side by side and not in length but is on a slight slope.

You offer some good advice and I certainly will check out the models I listed in person as I have located all models from reputable dealers locally. 

The Honda's and Yamaha's models are out of my price range.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

A question with regards to the Yamaha and please keep in mind I'm a snowblower newbie...

The Yamaha YT624EJA YT624EJA - Yamaha Motor Canada is powered by what's listed as 175cc engine. That's way below the cc's of the 4 snowblowers I listed above that are up for consideration. *What am I missing*, as I know the Yamahas are considered by many to be the very best ?


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

Welcome from the Chicago area. I have older machines, and am partial to older Toros, but I believe that both Toro and Ariens still make good machines. I have not used any of the snowblowers that you listed, but others on this forum speak highly of them. And I know that Yamaha and Honda are very good.

I agree with checking out a few in person. There could be a characteristic of one that you very much like or don't like (handle height, feature placement, etc), and for that money you need to be certain.

tx


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

The reasons are;

1. true track drive with flat dozer type treads
a. greater adhesion
b. greater ground contact area in square inches per track
c. infinite hydrostatic drive/fluid drive system
2. teflon lined chute
3. teflon impeller housing
4. shredding auger flights
narrow width.
5. The machines are actually designed for heavy wet snow conditions encountered in northern Honshu Island and Hokkaido Island in JAPAN/NIPPON

Items 2, 3 and 5 are gold.

A lot of folks in the maritimes have the new 624 and older 824.


(fixed my typos)


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

with just a 2 car driveway i would definitely not be going bigger than 24". heck you could probably get away with a 20" machine if you could find one with a tall enough bucket. when you start dealing with 28" or larger they are great for blowing large area's but i find them a bit clumsy and don't maneuver that great when you are working in small or tight area's like around cars. that Ariens 24 SHO definitely seems like it would be a pretty overkill of a machine but should never be short on power. i got a 26" machine with a 250cc Briggs and stratton and power wise it seems fine. it will bog when you push it onto a snow blank faster than it can move snow but never really struggles to throw the snow.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

leonz said:


> The reasons are;
> 
> 1. true track drive with flat dozer type treads
> a. greater adhesion
> ...


That's a lot of definite pluses and given me another consideration even if it means saving for a bit longer. Thank you for your detailed reply.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Charlie'sPal said:


> Thank you Ziggy65 for taking the time out of your day to reply to my thread, it's much appreciated.
> 
> My driveway is just a two car driveway but is side by side and not in length but is on a slight slope.
> 
> ...


did you take any pictures of all the snow you got? it's like candy to me to see big snow


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

No, no pictures lol...I was to busy shoveling and kicking myself for buying a Breitling Superocean 44 and not a snowblower doh. I swore to the snow God's last year though that, that would be my last winter without one.


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## jerryvvv (Apr 23, 2020)

your driveway sounds relatively small, or not excessively large, so i think engine size should be more important to you then auger size,

physical capabilities also come into play when deciding on a machine, the heavier the machine, the more difficult it is to handle, and turn, etc etc,

i am a fairly big strong guy, and i like the feel of a large machine, so i went with a 30 inch, but sometimes it can be a workout to turn it around at the end of my driveway,

something to consider depending on your age and physical capabilities,


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

I've ruled out the Ariens Deluxe 28 SHO and the Cub Cadet 2X 28 and am now down to considering either the Ariens Platinum 24 SHO, the Toro Max HD 1028 and a new contender though a pricey one in the Yamaha YT624EJA. 

I spoke with my local Ariens dealer today and they do not have the Platinum 24 SHO in stock at the moment but was assured they would be getting them in September, I'm in no rush so that's no issue for me. 

While the Toro Max is still up for consideration on my part mainly due to the positive reviews my uncle has given his Toro Max as the end all be all snowblower.

New to my list of considerations is the Yamaha and after reading through some more threads on here and elsewhere it's more than growing on me. 

I really appreciate everyone who has taken the time to reply and certainly welcome anymore...


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Charlie'sPal said:


> I've ruled out the Ariens Deluxe 28 SHO and the Cub Cadet 2X 28 and am now down to considering either the Ariens Platinum 24 SHO, the Toro Max HD 1028 and a new contender though a pricey one in the Yamaha YT624EJA.
> 
> I spoke with my local Ariens dealer today and they do not have the Platinum 24 SHO in stock at the moment but was assured they would be getting them in September, I'm in no rush so that's no issue for me.
> 
> ...


Havent read every post. Are you up in Canada? That's where Yamaha is more common than here. I think parts are pricey but it's a very solid machine.

Also , did youwant to purchase new or are you mechanical. If you are I would suggest a used Honda HS928 .( I'm a Honda guy so takeit with a grain of salt ). I got this 928 for a couple hundred. Serviced it myself and it should last another 20 years. 

This is the time of year as you probably know to get the deals on used blowers.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

orangputeh said:


> Havent read every post. Are you up in Canada? That's where Yamaha is more common than here. I think parts are pricey but it's a very solid machine.
> 
> Also , did youwant to purchase new or are you mechanical. If you are I would suggest a used Honda HS928 .( I'm a Honda guy so takeit with a grain of salt ). I got this 928 for a couple hundred. Serviced it myself and it should last another 20 years.
> 
> ...


Yes I am from Newfoundland, Canada, we are known for our long harsh winters and last year's was truly a standout brutal one.

I am not handy or mechanical at all so for peace of mind, I'm looking at buying new.

One of my neighbours has a tracked Honda and he has told me that over the years he has had a number of snowblowers and none of them could even come close to his Honda. My hold up with the Honda's is something my uncle (the Toro owner) has told me and that's that parts are expensive and in his words "you can't find anyone who wants to work on them".

Again, I am new to the world of snowblowers and how much truth there is to that comment is I don't really know.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Charlie'sPal said:


> ...My hold up with the Honda's is something my uncle (the Toro owner) has told me and that's that parts are expensive and in his words "you can't find anyone who wants to work on them"...


If you're buying new, the parts for the Honda HSS blowers are A LOT less than the HS series parts. And I can't imagine that the latter statement has any validity any more... And my HS80 didn't have to go to the dealer for service in over 30 years... The motor is still going strong on a wood chipper, but the blower duties were taken up by an HSS1332ATD.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Charlie'sPal said:


> Yes I am from Newfoundland, Canada, we are known for our long harsh winters and last year's was truly a standout brutal one.
> 
> I am not handy or mechanical at all so for peace of mind, I'm looking at buying new.
> 
> ...


I know a guy in Newfoundland that only works on Honda's. I thought there were a ton there. Yes , parts may be expensive but they last a long time. I have a 55 (33 years old ) a 50 ( 37 years old) and 80 ( 29 years old ) 

But, for peace of mind you are probably better off buying new and get some kind of warranty. I think it's 3 years for a Honda but not sure about Canada. I can't help you with an opinion on other brands. Have worked on Hundreds of Honda's. Just my opinion , they are not too hard to work on. With plenty of you-tube videos and this forum you can learn.

Yamaha is the equivalent of a Honda from what I have read here.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

I've read what I could find on the newer Honda models and there seem's to be issues with clogging...


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Charlie'sPal said:


> I've read what I could find on the newer Honda models and there seem's to be issues with clogging...


There were some issues with early HSS machines in very wet snow. That was/is addressed by Honda with a chute mod and many of us changed jets for more power and added impeller kits. No longer an issue, at least for me...

Since you're in Canada, Yamaha is also an excellent option.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello Charlie'sPal,

Keep your dealer close and your snowblower closer!!! 

If you do not have a reliable Honda dealer within spitting distance think Toro or Yamaha.
I cannot buy a Yamaha here in the lower 48 so I need to go into debt and buy a Toro 1428
track drive unit or the 1428 wheel drive unit with chains, front weight kit and steering brakes. 

Both the Toros and the smaller Yamaha snow blowers are worthy of a second look. With both units you can simply buy larger fuel jets and increase the performance.

Having warm cans of Fluid Film spray to coat the chute, spout, impeller, impeller housing and auger flights of any of the Toro's will double your casting distance.
Coating the serrated auger flights and spout of the smaller Yamaha with warm Fluid Film will also help in doubling your casting distance. You can use Fluid Film to coat the tracks of the Yamaha to make them last longer too.

90 percent of your decision is going to depend on how much storage space you have for it to keep it out of the weather and hopefully warm to melt off any snow and ice build up UNLESS you have a kerosene fired space heater to melt it off every time you use it and also use the heater to warm it up before you use it and it will thank you ten fold for doing that by the way by giving you better performance and it will rust much, much less.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

leonz said:


> Hello Charlie'sPal,
> 
> Keep your dealer close and your snowblower closer!!!
> 
> ...


Thank you for that info, something I would never have known other wise.


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## SnowGuy69 (Feb 12, 2014)

Ziggy65 said:


> Welcome to the forum Charlie'sPal.
> I commend you for taking the time to research your future snowblower purchase, looks like you have narrowed it down to 4 powerful decent quality machines.
> The following are my picks in order of preference.
> 
> ...


I think you could use drift cutters . That goes for the OP, since your winters are that bad.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

I really think for my driveway a smaller machine will be best suited as there are 2 cars to maneuver around, with that in mind I've ruled out the Toro.

So I am leaning towards the Ariens Platinum 24 SHO but haven't ruled out the Yamaha YT624EJA and possibly a Honda (24inch) Track Drive now that the clogging issues have been worked out.

I'm really taking my time with this and reading everything I can find online on each. The price on the Yamaha's and Honda's are a factor but not enough to rule them out completely.

If anyone feels so inclined to make a case for one of the models I would be much indebted.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello Charlie'sPal,

The issue is adhesion and traction and how much time you have to fool with clearing.

You can have all the horsepower the frame on a snow mule can handle but if you cannot obtain traction and adhesion you are as the old saying goes "you are an inclined plane surrounding an axis"

To provide you with an illustration of sorts here; when you look at a diesel electric locomotive it will have 2 trucks with either 2 or three wheel sets per truck to attempt to provide adequate traction/adhesion.

NOW, I want you think about this; each wheel set in a four axle or six axle locomotive whether it is a 33 or 39 inch wheel set only contacts the railhead in a very small area being the surface area of 2 dimes being 1.41 square inches.

Each wheel only has the contact area OF A DIME (.705 square inches) so that 300 to 400 ton locomotive has the contact area of 8 dimes or 12 dimes in square area NO MORE.

Each American dime has .705 square inches of surface area so a four axle locomotive has a total surface contact area of 5.64 square inches and a 6 axle wheel set locomotive has a total contact surface area of 8.46 square inches, not a lot eh??

A Yamaha 624 has much more square area on ONE tread to create traction adhesion than a 400 ton locomotive does on the rail head.

Keep in mind that if you have a heavy ice layer all bets are off unless you have studs in the tracks of a snow blower or V bar chains on the tires of a wheeled snowblower. 

I am glad I was able to help you in some manner.
Keep in mind the Yamaha has a slick lined chute and slick lined impeller housing.
I forgot to mention to you that if you invest in a cover for the Yamaha or Toro do not commit the cardinal sin of putting the cover on too soon as the heat from the muffler will do the dirty and you will have lost a good form fitting cover for it.
A very small hoop lawn mower shed from Farmtek would work very well if you have a lawn mower, weed wacker, etc. to store it as well. The issue for buying a lawn mower hoop shed is location, location, location; as having it in the back 40 where you can run an extension cord to start it(in the case of a Toro) or keep a battery tender running in the case of Yamaha will be a must as you may need to carry/drag a 12/3 exterior grade extension cord to the hoop shed or will need to have one run to the hoop shed to keep the battery up on the Yamaha.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Very well said...as usual.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't have a dog in this fight but thought I'd add some general thoughts. If the picture shown is representative of the snow you get, that's what I'm basic my thoughts on. For the width of drive you have, something in a 24"-28" width would do fine. 3 areas that will make a difference is HP, Auger diameter and Impeller diameter. Especially if you get heavy/wet snow, all 3 will be important to you. You need power to work through deep snow, a big enough auger to fill the auger housing and an impeller big enough to get rid of it. Tracks, Ground Hog tires or chains can make a difference.
You can't use my blower by name to recommend because it was custom built. I took a 10hp 32" 3 stage as my starting point. I swapped out a IIRC 26" auger housing on it, and it has a 14" impeller. I changed out the auger and drive bushings for roller bearings. This is close to my perfect blower, though I'm doing some more modifications to it as I write this. 
If you buy used and can do some modifications, you can extend your money. If not, buy the best you can based on your needs and go from there. If you buy new, make friends with the dealer, it will come back to you in the future.
My 2 cents.


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## Sandman (Dec 20, 2017)

I have been very happy with Ariens over the years. Have an 824 snow blower (924050) from the early eighties, an equally old walk behind mower, and used to have a riding mower. Too bad they all have Tecumseh engines. I will never buy anything Toro, as before the Ariens, I had a Toro Grassmaster mower. Had to put new gears in it at least once every summer. A friend, who had had summer jobs in a repair shop, said that there they called them "Toro Grassdisaster"!


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

Just to give an update :

It's now down to the Ariens Platinum 24 Sho and the Honda (24in) Track Drive HSS724CT.

My buddy has a Honda and I was over to his place and spent some time with it and it's really grown on me.

My local Ariens dealer won't have the 24 Sho in stock until some time in September so I won't have a chance to see it in person till then but again I'm in no rush to make my final decision.

I've had some great feedback here so far so let me ask the members this, between the two models which would you chose and why ?

I should add that I ruled out the Yamaha because as near as I could find the nearest dealer is a considerable distance from me.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

TORO!!!!!


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Charlie's Pal, those are both great machines and both will handle the big snowfalls you get in Atlantic Canada-- you have a tough decision ahead.

As you only have a 2 car driveway, I think maneuverability is an important consideration. 

Definitely wait to try out the Ariens when the dealer gets one in, the autoturn works without the engine running, but hopefully they will start it up and let you get a feel for the controls and maneuverability (I find the autoturn really works well). 

Were you happy with how your friend's Honda maneuvered with tracks?

Also factor in both dealer's reputation and your impression of them when you go in to check out and price the machines.

My choice would be the Ariens, but I am a little biased


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

leonz said:


> TORO!!!!!


I had considered a Toro but the local dealership have not been good about getting back to me about my inquiries. Also I am set on a 24 inch width and the only 24 Toro seemed like it would be under powered for what we get here snow wise.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

Ziggy65 said:


> Charlie's Pal, those are both great machines and both will handle the big snowfalls you get in Atlantic Canada-- you have a tough decision ahead.
> 
> As you only have a 2 car driveway, I think maneuverability is an important consideration.
> 
> ...


Nice machines !!!
I am in my 40's and weight 225 fairly solid pounds (though my waistline may dispute that claim) and was able to maneuver his Honda pretty easily though granted it wasn't on snow. Like I said I will for sure wait till the Ariens dealership has them in before making my choice. Thanks for the reply.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello CharliesPal, 

The one major issue is whether you are intent on scraping the pavement or not, I do not bother doing that as the asphalt is all broken up and a real mess. 

Leaving a layer of snow will help in clearing if you have chains or snow tires as bare pavement will cause wheel slippage especially with snow chains. 

The weight kit prevents the snowblower from riding up on snowpack and when dealing with the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER left by the plow truck. 

The engines on these things have been handicapped by the USA/EPA rules before they are even mounted on the frames so changing the fuel jets for larger ones or drilling them out will make a huge difference. 

Please do not forget the Toro dealers are in the middle of a crazy mowing season with lots of rain, I would call them again and simply drop in to talk to them. WHEN YOU ARE IN THE SHOWROOM THEY HAVE TO TALK TO YOU.

The 824 OE is on sale $899.00 USD; If you buy it through the web site it is shipped free to the dealer to be set up by them for you.

You would most likely want the front weight kit $164.00 USD,(you can do the same thing by buying steel plate and having the welding shop drill the holes for you) and adding snow chains($70.00+-) due to the snow you have to deal with. 

If you invest in the snow cab ($270.59 USD) you will not be able to make use of the Toro snowblower cover 

The engines power can be improved by simply changing or drilling out the fuel jets to make them larger to obtain more power. 

Between the anti clogging design and having a warm can of Fluid Film to spray the chute, spout and impeller you would be very well set for winter.

With deep wet snows or snows that have frozen and begin to thaw you always want to take half cuts after the first very slow pass and in so doing the impeller and cross augers are not simply chewing and flooding the cross auger housing and using more Fluid Film on the first pass.

By taking half cuts you also prevent snow from piling up in front of the snow blower too.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

leonz said:


> Hello CharliesPal,
> 
> The one major issue is whether you are intent on scraping the pavement or not, I do not bother doing that as the asphalt is all broken up and a real mess.
> 
> ...


Thank you for another informative post. 

I'd like to ask you though : As I know you are such a big fan of the tracked Yamaha, how come you don't seem to be equally enthusiastic with the tracked Honda's ? To a novice the two seem pretty close...


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Charlie'sPal said:


> Thank you for another informative post.
> 
> I'd like to ask you though : As I know you are such a big fan of the tracked Yamaha, how come you don't seem to be equally enthusiastic with the tracked Honda's ? To a novice the two seem pretty close...


======================================================================================================================================


I think the Yamaha track drive models are a better machine at handling wet snows because of the teflon lined chute and impeller housing plus I do not believe their engines
have been messed with by environment Canada and the Toro units are a close second simply because of the build quality. 
The engineers at Yamaha knew of the friction problem from the high speed of snow discharge of snow and the heat it creates from simple friction and the teflon lined impeller housing and chute on all three models negates the issue.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

You've mentioned a couple of times about Toro's build quality, do you feel the Toro Power Max 824 OE (37798) is really a better machine then a Honda (24) Track Drive HSS724CT or an Ariens Platinum 24 SHO ?

Sorry for all the newbie questions, I'm just trying to understand and make the best choice for our winters, they really are unreal here lol.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Leonz may own some Toro ! Stock. Lol. Myself, i would rank Honda, followed by ariens and followed closely by Toro. But, i have only owned ariens and Toro, amd an MTD, which is way down the list.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

I agree with RIT333, I would rank them Honda, Ariens and Toro. I would also rank Yamaha over Honda.

Being a frugal Canadian  , I also must factor in price: Honda HSS724CT --$3500.00 vs Ariens Platinum 24 SHO --$2400.00.

Both machines will definitely meet your needs, especially with just a 2 car driveway. Good luck with your search and go with whatever your gut is telling you.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello and good morning CharliesPal,

I do not have Toro stock as much as i would love to own a block of 100,000 Toro shares and a 1,000,000 share block of Union Pacific Railway shares haha. 

Anyway I have owned Toro Snow Pups since 1978 and except for normal wear and tear and dealing with New York State winters which involve too much salt on the roads making a bloody mess they never failed me. 
Growing up I used an original long horn snow pup with the white plastic cover and the waterproof kill switch (1965 or so) and that machine was a real terror as it never failed and all it did was eat snow when we used it at my fathers grocery store to keep the sidewalks clean. We had a single speed snow bird/yardman(red walk behind) after that 
and it worked fine but the forward speed was too fast. 


Back to me;
I would still have all four of the pups if the first two had not had a side plate component failure, needing a snow thrower at the time I bought a new one and NEGLECTED SEVERELY having them rebuilt and bringing them back home and hung them up in the garage and I regret not having them rebuilt.

Since they no longer build two cycle single stage units(hey could by the way if they installed catalytic converters on them I have set my sights on a 1428 with the weight kit. I already chains and I need to keep two driveways open plus the need to make paths for the fur babies and the wife needs a safe simple to run powerful machine with lights to use if I cannot be here or she needs to do it; and I cannot safely lift the new models due to their weight since I was stuffed with a pacemaker GGGGRRRRRR.
It would be different if all we had was powder snow to deal with(I wish) and sadly the weather does not stay windy and cold enough for that at this elevation as the roads would dry right off AND they use way way too much salt. 
In dealing with the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER they take longer to clear simple because of the snow melt and the ice buildup that I had to leave on the base of crappy broken asphalt I have.

You can be damn sure that if I saw or knew of a quality control problem I would be all over it and calling Toro if the dealer did not solve it by replacing the unit. 

When I purchased the TORO GTS 3000 CCR with the power curve paddles they were shipping them with chutes that were to thick molded at the base and making it extremely hard to turn the chutes and they had replacement chutes on hand and they changed it for me at no charge while I was at the dealer the same week I bought it.

Sadly my dealer no longer sells Toro mowers or snow blowers as they yanked his dealership by the usual underhanded work of a regional sales manager.

I wish they would bring back the 2 cycle self propelled walk behinds as all they would need is a catalytic converter. 

I have to do chores and go to town.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

Thank you for the relies. Maybe I'm making this much harder then it has to be but I just want to get the right machine for our winters. 

I've certainly been given plenty to think about here and on other threads I've read through out this forum. 

Right now I am considering the Honda (24) Track Drive Hss724CT, the Ariens Platinum 24 SHO and the Toro Power Max 824 OE and as suggested be sure to check out the Ariens and Toro in person before ruling either out.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

You are right to spend some time researching and seeking out opinions and reviews before making a large $ purchase and ending up with a machine that you are not happy with.

Please let us know what machine you eventually purchase and factors/options that helped make your decision. Hopefully we get an old fashioned winter this year to put your new purchase through it's paces and you can let us know how it performs. Pictures are also much appreciated.

Cheers


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello CharliesPal,

before you wander into the weeds think about this; you can have 2 Toro 824's and have a new back up machine with an empty gas tank at the same time for $1,800.00 USD + tax; remember that there is safety in numbers and having a spare snow mule is good insurance especially with your snows.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

I think I've ruled out the Honda just on cost alone as it would be just under $4000 CAD without taxes. 

It's now down to the *Ariens Platinum 24 SHO vs the Toro Power Max 824 OE*

The price at my local Ariens dealer for the 24 Sho is $2,499 without taxes while the 824 OE is on pre-season sale for $1,249 without taxes.

Cost will certainly play a factor in my end decision but neither model is out of my budget.

In my view the Ariens has the power going for it while I like the no shear pins of the Toro. My biggest question with the Toro is, is it powerful enough for our winters with a 252cc engine ?


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Buy once, cry once !

If it is in the budget, i would go for the ariens, or a bigger Toro. Remember, this is probably a 25+ year investment, don't regret your decision for that whole time.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello CharliesPal,

In regard to the Toro 824, my first vote would be for the hardened plastic portion of the impeller housing which has been used for years on their machines and the second vote is for the thier patented anti clog feature.

Either of these two machines is going to need the installation of the larger fuel jets due to the EPA regulations on exhaust emissions to provide you with more power which is something I would do before the first silver dollar snowflake you are always blessed with. 

Either of these machines is going to need have every metallic part that contacts snow to be coated with Fluid Film in several coats to prevent the snow pack from sticking and clogging up the augers and sticking to the the gearboxes.
This is especially helpful with destroying the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER(the plow pile) and feeding the little moat monsters with its remains. A paint mitt and small hands works well for this or you can use a hand held Fluid Film sprayer with an air compressor as long as you spin the augers while you coat them several times.

The Ariens snow cab is an inflated snow cab and the plastic clouds over. The Toro snow cab is of a framed design with a solid roof and the plastic windows are impact resistant and resist the effects of solar radiation causing others to cloud over.

Either machine will need chains and the front weight kit-(I do not know if the Ariens has a front weight kit).

Having chains patience and time to clear the first pass in the snow pack down to the street or road and then you an clear the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER and feed the little moat monsters.

Make sure you cast the remains of the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER on the side of the driveway where the plow passes your home as sending it the other way will only compound the mess in the front of the driveway as the plow will simply push it back across your driveway and make ice dams.

Heavy snow pack requires patience and time to deal with and half cuts when the first cut opens the path to the end of the driveway or the road. I only push my 2 cycle engine snow pups when the paddles have cleared the deep snow pack from the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER.

Ideally if you have time its best to just travel slowly and let the cross augers dig and cut the snow pack and allow the engine to make use of the full torque band it has to cast the snow as far as is possible at that slow speed.

Then you can do the same thing on the following passes at the same speed in half cuts as the snow blower will be running more effectively at high engine speed and torque to cast the snow away from the driveway.

Everything I have mentioned can also be applied to the Ariens unit BUT if you can financially manage the same price the Toro 1428 track drive will also be a well thought out purchase simply because of the track drive and unit weight.
coating the cross auger housing, cross augers, gearbox, chute and spout with Fluid Film should also be done on the 1428 as well.

Just remember the slower you go the farther you will throw the snow no matter what unit you invest in.

If you can manage the loss of space a pair of the Toro 824's will let you have a spare machine in the stable if you need one to save on shoveling. 

I have no desire to get in your way I only want you to be an informed consumer of information.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

leonz said:


> Hello CharliesPal,
> 
> In regard to the Toro 824, my first vote would be for the hardened plastic portion of the impeller housing which has been used for years on their machines and the second vote is for the thier patented anti clog feature.
> 
> ...


Leonz,
Your posts throughout this thread have offered valuable info that as a newbie I would otherwise not have known. Thank you for taking the time out of your day to reply as you have.


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## Lunta (Dec 14, 2017)

RIT333 said:


> Buy once, cry once !
> 
> Remember, this is probably a 25+ year investment, don't regret your decision for that whole time.


Agree totally. 
Have had my YT660 for 3 winters. It hurt like hell saving up for it, it hurt even more handing over the cash, but every time I use it, I'm so pleased with the decision.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

RIT333 said:


> Buy once, cry once ! ...Remember, this is probably a 25+ year investment, don't regret your decision for that whole time.


Yup, completely agree! My 1987 Honda HS80TAS was an investment that lasted 30 years, and I hope my 2017 Honda HSS1332ATD will last the rest of my snowblowing years...


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

has anyone brought up the fact and this is a fact that new machines of all brands are not as well built and not made to last like the older models?

I'd rather buy an older model of just about any brand. If you have patience you can find a low low hour machine for a third of the new price.

I really like the Yamaha 824 ( better than Honda ) but parts are hard to find down in the lower 48.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello orangeputeh

I don't know how much luck he would have finding a good used snow mule where he is now due to the amount of snow they get up there.


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## Lunta (Dec 14, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> has anyone brought up the fact and this is a fact that new machines of all brands are not as well built and not made to last like the older models?
> 
> I'd rather buy an older model of just about any brand.


You’re of course correct in that there’s great value to be found in used machines, especially in bigger markets like US/Canada. 
But used machines require some skill and enthusiasm on the spanners, and the time to devote to that.



Charlie'sPal said:


> I am not handy or mechanical at all so for peace of mind, I'm looking at buying new.


A large part of this forum’s membership can be divided in to two clear types:

1. Guys with a passion for fixing, fiddling and modding their stable of blowers, who also clear snow.
2. Guys who just want to clear snow in the quickest and easiest way, with a reliable single blower that requires only routine maintenance and minimal repairs or replacement parts.

There are probably a lot of guys who would like to be in group one, but because of time constraints, get forced in to group two. And vice versa 😁


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I guess i'm too old school then.

the rest of you can pay for the convenience.


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## jerryvvv (Apr 23, 2020)

orangputeh said:


> has anyone brought up the fact and this is a fact that new machines of all brands are not as well built and not made to last like the older models?


agree with you,

i chose to go that route, even though money is really not an issue for me,

i bought an older MTD and spent the summer taking it apart and going over everything, and replacing a few parts here and there,

in the end i feel like i have ended up with a solid machine, that is built like a tank

however, i have the time and knowledge on how to do all of that, not everybody does,


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

Yeah, I'm most definitely in group 2.


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## Honda1132 (Sep 2, 2016)

orangputeh said:


> has anyone brought up the fact and this is a fact that new machines of all brands are not as well built and not made to last like the older models?


It's not just snowblowers, one could say this for a lot of items everything from appliances to vehicles to houses.


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## Lunta (Dec 14, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> I guess i'm too old school then.
> 
> the rest of you can pay for the convenience.


Don't get me wrong - I am also "old school", just not with snowblowers 😀

Everyone's got a limited amount of spare time and have to choose how they use it. e.g. I choose to use my time on developing my plot, construction, clearing/managing forest, firewood processing, growing food and handle all maintenance and repairs of other equipment and buildings myself.

Something has to give, and for me that happens to be "fixing, fiddling and modding a stable of blowers". And yes, I do pay for that convenience.

So my point is, "it's not so black and white"...


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

guess i'm in both groups as i want to get back inside out of the cold fast yet being a retired mechanic i can fix my machines when needed during a snow fall.and sure have had my fill of doing so at temps of well under 0 F 
i own a toro 928 powermax and have had issues, first is they do clog with wet snow just like any other machine can,
the china made loncin motor is very hard to get parts for with most being Special order from a dealer only so if it breaks during a snow fall you will be waiting for a bit , 
toro uses grade 5 bolts on the auger and grade 8 to hold wheels to the axle ,i have had them all break/shear off, 
belt wise i keep a set as spare as one never knows when one will fail or break thanks to the dreaded EOD piles
stamped steel skids toro uses as oem wear very fast and need to be flipped here i personally found the toro cast iron replacements are way better
the way toro welds the bare metal before powder coat painting allows road salt to get in under the sections and prematurely rust the bare steel from under the paint, and toro will not do anything or help your on your own with a new bucket costing close to $600 USD's or about 700 plus Canadian ,whats the rate now about 76 cents C to one us ?? 

i would talk to the local dealer and ask about his parts stock for parts that are known to fail and keep non warranty items in stock at home.learn to install them if ever needed, those items i keep are belts, shear pin/bolts, engine oil. and spare spark plug. that as the motor are made in china and the torch brand plugs can be ?? good or bad 

good luck with your choice


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

A couple of things (to add to the confusion)/throw 91 octane on the fire/"Lucy you got some splaining to do"; 
Most coarse threaded bolts are not as strong as fine threaded bolts of any strength being grades 2,3 or 5 and will snap/shear more easily when they loosen.from wear or when the mounting hole becomes elongated UNLESS a thread locker is used.

Fine thread bolts have more gripping thread per inch and are therefore are much stronger in relation to possible breakage from shearing.

There are state side resellers of loncin engine parts 

www.ebay.com

www.loncinpartswarehouse.com

www.kazumausaonline.com

I have never dealt with either of them so I cannot say as to how well they work or take care of a customer.

Champion Spark Plugs are made by Federal Mogul now as far as I can tell.

Pulstar spark plugs are made in New Mexico and they have a wide range of plugs for everything in the engine zoo by the looks of their information.

AC Delco Spark Plugs are still made by General motors, I am not sure if they are made in the United States.

NGK spark plugs are still made in Nagoya, Japan.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

Ok so another newbie question : 

What would cause a shear pin to break or Grade 5 bolts to shear or break off and how common is it ?

Also has anyone owned a snowblower and NOT had this happen to them ?


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Getting something (piece of wood, frozen newspaper etc) jammed in the auger or impeller will cause a shear pin to break, preventing damage to the machine.
I have never broken a shear pin in 40 plus years of operating a snow blower (5 or 6 different machines over the years).


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Keep in mind that an auger sheer pin is only able to do its job if the auger has not rusted onto the auger shaft. If it is rusted on, then it is likely that you will end up with a broken gearbox.


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

It's been a little bit so I'd thought I'd give an update.

*The Good.*
After careful consideration, hours of research online (big thank you again to everyone here who took time out of their day to share their opinions and knowledge) and viewing a number of machines in person I decided on the Toro Power Max 824OE and went out yesterday afternoon and payed for it and am having it delivered next week.

*The Bad*
From day one the customer service from the local Toro AD has been* non-existent*. Before I went there in person I had sent emails which were never answered. I phoned a couple of times but always had the feeling the guy on the other end ''had better things to do'' then be on the phone with me. 

Yesterday I went there in person (and let me make it clear that there were no other customers in the store) and walked into the showroom floor looking at all the new Toros and not one staff member (to which I counted 3) took the time to come over to me though all made eye contact.

After looking the machine over and making up my mind that the 824OE was the machine for me I tracked down one of the employees who in all honesty seemed less than thrilled that I chose him to help. To make this short, I was not shown how to operate it after telling him it was my first machine, he told me nothing on the warranty and never even thanked me for my business as I was leaving.

In all honesty if it wasn't for the fact that I really wanted the 824 I would have walked out, because of the lack of service.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello and good afternoon CharliesPal,

I am glad to hear that you have a new Snow Mule to put in the stable.

I am so sincerely sorry to hear that they have treated you like that.

I just went through a bunch of crap with the local home despot trying to buy Toro 824 " which they changed the price on prior to my walking into the store to buy it.

I described in detail on here the forum what happened exactly during my exchange with the "two orange aproned experts" that day and I also called the home despot consumer help line and I was very nice and very clear about what happened and also explaining to the young woman I chatted with what happened when I walked into the big box store when I asked where the $799.00 snow blower was that was on the floor the other day when I was in here. I was very disappointed and did not ask to speak with a manager before I left the store. I doubt it would have made a difference anyway.

The fellow at the returns desk said he did not know but the two people I needed to talk to were walking right this way and I walked over to them and asked what happened to the $799.00 toro 824 model that was sitting on the floor the other day as it was it sold and gone and the more dominant of the two said "I have never had a $799.00 snow blower on the floor here" and I looked him right in the eyes and said "you had one here last week and up until 2 days ago when I was in here last to check on whether it was still here for sale". He said and I quote "I will sell you an TORO 824 for $799.00 for cash or credit card" and I said I wanted to buy it with a check which would have cleared the same day and he said $799.00 cash or credit for the snow blower and they were walking around making the motions and as I walked out I said that snow blower was right there where that craftsman snow blower was the other day. 

Rest assured they will be receiving a letter form me regarding this incident for all the good it will do. I ended up spending the borrowed money on truck repairs.

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CharliesPal, if the delivery driver does not show you how the snowblower operates or provides you with an owner manual I would go back there and ask to see the manager.

If the manager is the owner all the better, if the owner is not there ask when he or she will be there. 

If you sit down and talk to this person and you do not receive the answer you truly deserve which is simply aiding you with your purchase and explaining in detail how your snow blower works and at least providing you with an owners manual, and selling you a service kit and spare V belts AND apologizing to you for his or her employees not taking any time to talk to you I would be more than happy to talk to them; but the power of the pen works in wonderful ways and a letter to the editor of your local newspaper OR first a letter to TORO Canada will work wonders as they cannot afford any bad press.

They should have taken care of you and explained everything to you when you were there purchasing your new snow mule.

The last thing anyone in this business wants is an unhappy customer and bad public relations over a sale of a valuable snow removal product can be damaging to this retailer and the Toro Canada brand. 

Please PM me if you have any more questions as I do not want to see you having problems with this machine.

I went through this with the John Deere LA115 I bought in 2011 when they delivered it it was set up with a lawn mower rather than a snow blower and rear chains which I asked the salesman to make sure it was ready for snow as it was march first when I bought it and expected it to be ready to use for snow removal.

I would have felt better if the salesman said the machine is not big enough for your needs and I will sell you a 2305 as that is what you really need and I would have gone into debt to do that without any hesitation. 

I ended up injuring myself moving the 44 inch snow blower to where I could set it aside out of the way and drove the lawn tractor into into the hoop shed and ended up in bed for a few days because of back strain. 

The following year I was getting the lawn mower ready for snow and when I unbagged the snow chains they did not fit rear tires!!!!

SO I called the dealer and explained to the fellow I was talking to what happened and that I was mounting the chains for the first time and found that they were the wrong size and he said sorry but I am not going to help you as that sale was over a year ago. 

I hung up and called their home office the next day and was very calm and precise in describing what happened and why as well as explaining what happened when they delivered the lawn mower "with the lawn mower on it instead of the snowblower" and how I ended up hurting myself and being bed ridden for a few days from back strain and a couple of days later they called me and asked me to bring the snow chains back for a refund and we drove over there and they refunded my money and in good faith I bought a John Deere service kit for the lawn mower and a steering knob which came to more than the cost of the chains.

I ended up buying chains from chainsrus in Pennsylvania and snow chain repair tools as I had to modify/shorten the chains to to make them fit my tire size on the LA115.

I found out the bloody thing could not get out of its own way with my fat ass and the 84 pounds of suitcase weights on the back and SO I purchased a tire filling valve from Gemplers and poured in 10 gallons of windshield washer fluid in the rear tires to create more traction/adhesion and that worked very well.

What I did not know at the time was the snow blower was shipped to John Deere short of parts and the V belts were "Metric Size" specific V belts for the John Deere snow blower as it came from RAD in Canada and the chute and spout were made from very weak plastic and still are and are very expensive to replace. after replacing the chute and spout twice and the V belts 3 times I decided I had enough and I can not even get people to buy the used snow blower let alone steal it off my driveway.

SO after having a heart to heart talk with the fellow I bought my new john Deere from he told me do not waste anymore money on the old mule (over 250 hours on it) or the snowblower or replace the old rotted out mower deck with a new one for the LA115. The JD riding lawn mower mower decks also come from RAD in Canada as well and require metric tools and V belts which I have.

SO now the old LA115 is used to tow the trailers around and haul the generator around on the trailers so I can use the electric weed eater since I have a pace maker stuffed in my chest.

I just cannot make myself spend another three hundred dollars on V belts and the missing parts for it and knowing the chute and spout will wear out due to the ice chunks I have to deal with. The tuff tork transmission on the LA115 has a lot of hours on it and as my salesman said don't spend any more money on it as the rear wheels are worn and the keyways for the wheels are also very worn and the replacement wheels are also very expensive. 


LeonZ


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

charlies pal
wish you luck with the new machine and sorry you had to deal with one of the bad apple dealers
word of advise from a toro powermax 928 ohxe owner, get a few cans of fluid film and spray every seam you see where the machine is spot welded together and keep it well coated, the way machines are made today and powder coat painted there is NO paint under those areas, it's bare metal that's not even treated metal
if you don't coat it, two years down the line you will see a lot of rust just like many have found, and toro will NOT do anything to help you out,


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## Charlie'sPal (Aug 5, 2020)

leonz said:


> Hello and good afternoon CharliesPal,
> 
> I am glad to hear that you have a new Snow Mule to put in the stable.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply LeonZ and I am sorry to read some of what you wrote with regards to your experience at Home Depot, service today in many cases is not what it once was. 

I want to personally thank you because your replies to this thread played a big part in my decision to go with the 824OE.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

@Charlie'sPal, I recently purchased, (August) a Toro super recycler mower and received a printed warranty statement and a quick start guide. The dealership offered to print out the parts catalog and complete owners manual for me when I picked up my mower. Toro has gone to online manuals and parts here in the US and maybe in Canada also. Just to be sure, if you want a printed version of the online manual delivered with your new snowblower let your dealer know.


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## Mountain Man (Oct 14, 2018)

_Its unfortunately how the big box stores are ruining customer service. The floor employees re poorly trained, only taught to sell sell sell. They likly only know what a sales flier has for information. The manager might be tough to find, and call to customer service to a " call center" could take multiple attempts to get a satisfactory response. 

Hence, this is driving the locally owned dealerships out of buisness. I'm seeing this first hand right now locally. 2 local ope dealers gone since March. _

And this goes also for appliances. I have a fridge on order from a 3rd generation dealer.. I'm done using the box stores.


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

*Mountain Man*
man do i agree, esp,since our now gone toro shop was run out by the box stores nearby lowes,home depot and tractor supply 
as to home depot besides having driven 3 hours each way to get my not found nearby cub zt 1 50 zero turn this year, it took me another 3 hours to make the purchase and run though the stink inside the store of getting a new customer Cc from Hd so i could save another 100 dollars off the $2.999.00 sales price down from the msrp $3.099.00 
if i could have found one at a cub dealer i would have but there simply wasn't any


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## jdavis (Nov 28, 2015)

tabora said:


> My 1987 Honda HS80TAS was an investment that lasted 30 years


What did you pay for it new back then?


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

tabora said:


> My 1987 Honda HS80TAS was an investment that lasted 30 years





jdavis said:


> What did you pay for it new back then?


It was expensive, but I don't remember the exact amount... Maybe $1300 in 1987 dollars? That would make it almost exactly the same price as a HSS928ATD in today dollars. Saved up for it for a while and then waited for it to come in...


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