# Brand New Kraken Won't Start



## system (Feb 8, 2021)

At the end of last March I bought a Kraken. Snow was done for the season so I stabilized the fuel, put the battery on a tender and covered it in the corner of the garage. Yesterday, I decided to clean the garage and needed to move the blower. Well, what do you know. She cranks fine but will not start. I pulled the plug and it appears it's not getting fuel. With Monday being labor day, my selling dealer is closed for the long weekend. Before I make the two hour round trip for warranty service next Tuesday, does anyone have any suggestions on something simple I can check at home? 

PS: I have servicing dealers closer but bought where I did because they were the only place that had a Kraken to sell. Are dealers generally willing to service machines not sold by them or am I best served making the trip to the selling dealer?


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Sometimes it's the simple things, they've caught me out too. Fuel on? Ignition on? Carb bowl full?

Also smell the gas, despite stabilizer you never know.

That's where I'd start anyhow.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

It's EFI with an on board battery so pretty much like starting a car. Turn the key and it's supposed to start.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I have not operated a fuel injection unit ... please let us know what the issue was when you find it.

If it is getting spark when you turn it over, and getting no fuel as you state, then I would assume some sort of pump, injector, or other delivery system on board. Doesn't your manual cover this scenario?


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

No, the manual doesn't list a "no start" issue in the troubleshooting section.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

There was another long thread here somewhere about the EFI on the Ariens ... pretty much came down to battery, electronic and/or fuel pump issues ....

They sell you an expensive machine like that, and the manual does not cover in its troubleshooting section "No Start" .....  lol, a bit odd.

All my machines are carbs, they all get treated fuel, I periodically start all my equipment throughout the year, and I never have issues, and that includes my 60-year-old machines as well ....


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I wonder how many years they tested this electronic fuel injection system on these snowblowers in the real-world application before they mass produced them.


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## Davejb (Jan 28, 2018)

Here is the EFI thread Ariens Model 926068 EFI problem


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## Davejb (Jan 28, 2018)

Oneacer said:


> I wonder how many years they tested this electronic fuel injection system on these snowblowers in the real-world application before they mass produced them.


A lot of these EFI posts seem to be no start after sitting off season, wonder if they tested that scenario.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Yes, I read through that thread. It looks like I'll be taking it to the dealer next week. The machine literally has 10 minutes of run time on it. Loaded it on the truck, unloaded at home and ran it for a bit after installing an hour meter to track usage.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Just pulled out the hard copy of the manual as opposed to the PDF I was reading earlier. Here there is a "no start" in the trouble shooting. Most suggestions are beyond obvious but the very last one is, "fuse is blown." The solution is, "see dealer for repair." I found the fuse panel and all are good.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> does anyone have any suggestions on something simple I can check at home?


This all should be covered in your manual but.............

So if the ECU(the blowers computer if you will) on your Kraken is roughly the same as my Ariens EFI's ECU that resides up under the dash, there are diagnostic LED's embedded in the potting of the ECU, if its getting power when you turn the key to "on", they'll be blinking in a certain sequence, are they blinking and if so, what is the sequence?

Example when the key is first turned JUST to "on"(you should also hear some R2D2 noises coming from the engine[throttle servo]), the Red LED blinks rapidly a bunch, then the Green LED blinks twice and the Red LED blinks 7 times, this is the dreaded error code 27. This pattern repeats indefinitely while the key remains on.

There are a few Kraken owners here that might chime in on this soon to confirm things..........


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Oneacer said:


> I wonder how many years they tested this electronic fuel injection system on these snowblowers in the real-world application before they mass produced them.


My understanding is Ariens has been running this FI system in "some of our higher end mowers for many years now before we've added it to our resent blower line up" I never confirmed this with any mower ppl or did much research on this statement and I bought the farm........Might be true, might be half true or I too bough ocean front in Arizona.

I think there might be a bad run/lot of fuel pumps out there.............Seems there is a trend developing there with 7.2V EFI's, but none with 12V EFI Kraken........Yet? BUT, I don't think as many Kraken's were sold as there were with the other types of EFI's, not many in the "test group".


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

OK, just went out and checked. The fuel pump does seem to come on with the key as I can hear it run for a few seconds when I turn the key to position 2. As far as the ECU lights, the red light comes on when I turn the key on, stays lit for about 4 seconds and then goes out. The green light flashes continually and doesn't stop. No servo sounds when key is turned on. I checked both my owners manual and my snow engine manual and neither had anything about the diagnostic leds so I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is normal.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Sounds like the ECU thinks all is well with that green flashing LED....Hmmm

CHECKING TROUBLE CODES
The blinking red LED light on the ECU displays trouble
codes. Its sequence indicates a particular system
malfunction by blinking as many times as the first digit of a
trouble code, pausing, and then blinking as many times as
the second digit of a trouble code.
For example, the red LED will indicate low fuel pressure
(27) by blinking twice, pausing, and blinking seven more
times.*(My mistake from post #12's example, I didn't memorize this section)*
IMPORTANT: More than one trouble code may be present.
IMPORTANT: DO NOT mistake a constant red (non-
blinking) LED for a trouble code. Red LED will illuminate
when the ignition switch is turned to the “ON” position and
the fuel pump is pressurizing, which may last for up to 30
seconds.
*A blinking green LED indicates the ECU processor is*
_*operating correctly, even if a sub-component of the ECU*_
*(e.g.: barometric pressure sensor) has failed.* A constant
illuminated green (not blinking) LED indicates the ECU may
be experiencing a low battery voltage condition or need
replacement. See EFI Trouble Code Identification on
page 73.



https://apache.ariens.com/manuals/05136630B.pdf


(Close enough to get an idea)


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Very helpful. Thanks! As I said, I can hear the pump pressurizing and the red light stays on while that's happening. So, it doesn't appear to be the pump. Maybe I'll pull the cover and make sure nothing is loose at the throttle body.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

OK, I just went out and left the key on for a longer time. Now I'm getting different behavior from the red LED. 7 rapid flashes and two longer flashes. Since there is no code 72, I'm guessing it's code 27 which seems to mean low fuel pressure. So, maybe a bad pump after all?


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Yes......The dreaded 27!! So if there is good gas in the tank, battery all charged up and fuel shut off valve (if applicable) is open. The pump might be hanging up......This, I think, is a "thing" now.

I reckon I should go try to start mine.......Geeesh.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I did some probing based on the other thread and the service guide you posted. The ECU is putting out over 12v on the pump lead. (Green wire.) However, after it passes through the throttle body, there is a 2 volt loss when tested at the pump. 10.24v is what I'm reading at the wires connected to the pump. According to the guide on the 7.2 setup, anything less than 7.2 at the pump says to replace the TB if the ECU is outputting the correct voltage. So, if all things are equal, anything less than 12v at my pump would also mean a failed TB controller. That is unless that the voltage drop to 10.24 is by design. Without a proper service guide on the Kraken, it's hard to say for sure.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> I did some probing based on the other thread and the service guide you posted. The ECU is putting out over 12v on the pump lead. (Green wire.)


Yes, the pumps high side feed, that sounds right.



system said:


> However, after it passes through the throttle body, there is a 2 volt loss when tested at the pump. 10.24v is what I'm reading at the wires connected to the pump.


The wire passes though? it's not a solid wire going from the ECU to the pump?



system said:


> According to the guide on the 7.2 setup, anything less than 7.2 at the pump says to replace the TB if the ECU is outputting the correct voltage.


I'm not clear why or how the TB relates to the pump's electrical hook ups?



system said:


> So, if all things are equal, anything less than 12v at my pump would also mean a failed TB controller. That is unless that the voltage drop to 10.24 is by design. Without a proper service guide on the Kraken, it's hard to say for sure.


What in the world is in the TB that there would be a need to run the pump's supply voltage through? Got a picture? I might have to run out to the shed and look at mine, I don't recall this path for the pump.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

The green pump feed wire from the ECU enters the TB control module and then exits as two wires to the pump. (Positive and ground.)

Page 76 of the guide you shared is what got me looking in this direction.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Here is a pic of the bottom of the TB with four separate wire bundles across the bottom (and one at the top). The large bundle on the left is the 12 wires coming from the ECU... one of which being the green fuel pump lead. Then there are three smaller bundles of wires to the right of the larger one. Bundle #3 of 4 is the one with the two wires that run to the fuel pump.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

So, the question is, should the output from the TB to the pump be 12+v as it is before landing at the TB? Or should it be 10.24v which is what I'm reading?

I also noticed that my butterfly valve doesn't cycle or move when the key is turned on or when the EFI knob is turned. Is that normal behavior?


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Ohhhh yeah, I forgot about that............Mine is that way too!!



system said:


> So, the question is, should the output from the TB to the pump be 12+v as it is before landing at the TB?


I would think 10.5V on the positve side and 0'ish volt on the ground side should spin the pump just fine......I know you can bench test them and get them to pump anywhere from 7'ish V to 12V(if I recall right) because I've done this with it in a bucket of gas and a variable power supply. I think your pump is the same as mine according to the parts houses



system said:


> Or should it be 10.24v which is what I'm reading?


I think that might be around normal...BUT I don't know 100% for sure.





system said:


> I also noticed that my butterfly valve doesn't cycle or move when the key is turned on or when the EFI knob is turned. Is that normal behavior?


Ummm, not running the knob that i noted, but turning on the key, yes....

*Mine ALWAYS cycles* when the key is first turned on, in fact there are ppl on the youtube that tell you to listen for it when you turn the key on, BUT do Kraken's do this, again, I don't have a Kraken so I can't say 100%, my gut says it's the same design though

My Battery was low in the vid so it was bit insane BUT when the battery is full, it bascially runs the same just no gas peeing out.....I always listen for this noise now when I turn the key on in fact because I know the sevro on the TB is functioning


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Well, I'm at the end of my research. It was just out of curiosity as it's nothing I can fix. I'm betting it is indeed a bad TB. Will report back once I get it fixed under warranty.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

It will be years before I get one of those for free to play with, or I'll be in the ground first .... either way, doubt I'll be playing with them ....


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Oneacer said:


> It will be years before I get one of those for free to play with, or I'll be in the ground first .... either way, doubt I'll be playing with them ....



Yeah, this isn't looking so good......Is this 1 out of 100,000 or 1 out of 10 that were seeing? I don't know the sales numbers, but I'm starting to wonder. Do you think Ariens will be here soon to tell us?


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> Well, I'm at the end of my research. It was just out of curiosity as it's nothing I can fix. I'm betting it is indeed a bad TB. Will report back once I get it fixed under warranty.



Good plan, glad you caught this early enough and yes, let us know.......


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I'm glad too. As much as the trek to the dealer sucks, it would suck worse in January! At least I can work in a car show that's nearby when dropping it off next Saturday...


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> I'm glad too. As much as the trek to the dealer sucks, it would suck worse in January! At least I can work in a car show that's nearby when dropping it off next Saturday...


Yup and unfortunately (not to be a downer, but...) unless you have a honest dealer/mechanic, I don't believe a word they say about the repairs these days, they're so full of BS to cover their asses, I have a feeling we'll never know............But who knows, maybe.

My gut feeling, based on this all says it's your fuel pump (esp w a error code 27)....OH and don't buy any BS about your tank being full of metal shavings!! They've punched that card already with someone else.....


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

🤞


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Interestingly, I ran across this statement from LCT to a customer that was looking to upgrade their LCT engine to EFI...

_Our EFI is currently available only on 306cc, 369cc and 420cc engines. They have been exclusivity built for the Ariens Company. At this time it would be very hard and expensive to retrofit an EFI system or complete engine to your current snow blower because some of the parts must be purchased from Ariens (battery, wire harness, throttle controller)._​


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> I also noticed that my butterfly valve doesn't cycle or move when the key is turned on or when the EFI knob is turned. Is that normal behavior?


Not to belabor this mis-adventure, but being of sound mind(sort of) and only slightly paranoid when I just got home I went to the shed with a cup of non-eth gas, poured it in the EMPTY(but tiny bit wet still) tank, turn the key on(heard all normal R2D2 noises)and yes, my GLE EFI started first pull and RAN!!!!...Wheeew.

For storage, I drained the tank like last Feb and ran it till it died, shut the key off and walked away(I only looked back maybe twice, tops!). I did however fully charge the battery about two weeks ago overnight.

BTW YES, with the key on (engine NOT running) when you turn the throttle knob, you definitely can clearly hear the servo moving the butterfly around. BUT if I recall right, when the ECU detects an error(generated an error code), it shuts things off.....I recall it doing this when i was getting a error 27 due to a low battery, I had to cycle the key once it decided it wasn't running properly(and the floor was puddled with enough gas) and it had shut things down. To get it to re-boot, I shut the key off, waited like 10 sec and it would then re-boot with same symtoms


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

tabora said:


> Interestingly, I ran across this statement from LCT to a customer that was looking to upgrade their LCT engine to EFI...
> 
> _Our EFI is currently available only on 306cc, 369cc and 420cc engines. They have been exclusivity built for the Ariens Company. At this time it would be very hard and expensive to retrofit an EFI system or complete engine to your current snow blower because some of the parts must be purchased from Ariens (battery, wire harness, throttle controller)._​


So overlooking the "hard parts of a retro fit", LCT(employee of the month) is saying Ariens is over charging for monopolized parts then? errr wait, "Only makes profits on parts"? Hmmmm, think a Honda dealer told me that too once....lol, go figure, I own 4 Honda cars and 2 Honda lawn mower.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Snowblowers shouldn't be that complicated. I will hang on to my carbureted machines.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Cstanis said:


> Snowblowers shouldn't be that complicated. I will hang on to my carbureted machines.


Not me. I'll take fuel injection on anything I own. Quads, sleds, cars, trucks etc. The only time I want a carb is on my GTO. I also don't want crank windows or manual locks... again though... the GTO is the exception...


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

The GTO was a nice ride, 389 tri carb?


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

It's a 70 that is currently 400/4speed. It's not numbers matching though so next week a fresh 428 is going in...


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

system said:


> It's a 70 that is currently 400/4speed. It's not numbers matching though so next week a fresh 428 is going in...


Nice!!!


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Thank you sir! It was a barn find I found this spring. Called 40 minutes after the guy's add hit FB Marketplace. I beat out the other 38 guys who inquired in the next 24 hours. Drug it home a couple days later and have been driving all summer while accumulating parts. At this point, I have as much spent in boxes in the garage as in the car but oh well... it'll put a smile on my face. 

I see a 57 in your avatar. My outlaws (in-laws to their faces) have one sitting in the field behind their house. They are pushing 80 and insist (every damn time I ask) that they will be restoring it this year and it's not for sale. I've heard this song since 2006... It kills me to watch it rust out but there's nothing I can do to get them to let it go...


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

system said:


> I see a 57 in your avatar. My outlaws (in-laws to their face


The difference between inlaws and outlaws

Outlaws are wanted.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Fuel Pump is junk!!!!!!!! ALOHA!!!!!







*


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Tony-chicago said:


> The difference between outlaws and inlaws
> 
> Outlaws are wanted.


*You must know from Experience Then.*


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

No problem here. But it us a very common refrain


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Injector not pulsing? Not getting signal?


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

I am also thinking the fuel pump might be stuck, as documented previously.

So many parts... good luck. 👍


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Could be the pump. Could be the TB since the butterfly isn't moving and no fuel from the injector. As I said, will find out in a week or so...


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## Shannon (Oct 5, 2021)

I can tell you more that likely exactly what the problems is from first hand experience. I too picked up my mountaineering edition in April, after winter was over (same unit as the Kraken except it doesn't have the electronic servo for the track lift and fewer lights). Mine started great a few times as I was showing it to friends. Late this summer I went to move the unit when I was cleaning my garage, and it would not start. Same as you. I took it to the dealer, and he found a bunch of fine metal shavings in the gas tank. He removed and cleaned the tank, and replaced the fuel pump. It runs fine now, There had to be a manufacturing problem that left metal shavings in the gas tank. Have your dealer stick a magnet down in the gas tank and I bet it will come out with the metal shavings (almost powder like). He showed me the shavings and the damage that it did to the fuel pump.


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## Shannon (Oct 5, 2021)

Sam Am I said:


> Yup and unfortunately (not to be a downer, but...) unless you have a honest dealer/mechanic, I don't believe a word they say about the repairs these days, they're so full of BS to cover their asses, I have a feeling we'll never know............But who knows, maybe.
> 
> My gut feeling, based on this all says it's your fuel pump (esp w a error code 27)....OH and don't buy any BS about your tank being full of metal shavings!! They've punched that card already with someone else.....


 Metal shaving (very fine powder) are what is causing he problem. My tank had the shavings, and it trashed the pump. Cleaned the tank and replaced the pump. I saw it with my own eyes. Don't know why you are trying to discredit this, as this is probably the issue with this Kraken.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Shannon said:


> Metal shaving (very fine powder) are what is causing he problem. My tank had the shavings, and it trashed the pump. Cleaned the tank and replaced the pump. I saw it with my own eyes. Don't know why you are trying to discredit this, as this is probably the issue with this Kraken.


I don't trust dealers is all........I guess if when your machine was just off loaded from your vehicle and first thing when you arrived some mechanic came to you and your machine and you both stood there as he opened your tank up and in front your very eyes, you watched as he dropped a CLEAN magnet into the tank and it came back with metal powder .......THEN and ONLY then would I buy this....Sry.

Just don't trust these dealers, plus the pump screens on these pumps (got one in hand) look to be no bigger than 50 microns, baking flour is like 25 microns, not sure of the internals of these pumps, but even metal powder at 50 microns and less running thought a rubber impeller type pump, the impeller would only see an abrasive suspended in a fluild and just wear down, wearing down an interference impeller fit should just make it run freer in time, not lock it up I'd think.........But, if you watched as I noted, who knows.


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## Shannon (Oct 5, 2021)

Sam Am I said:


> I don't trust dealers is all........I guess if when your machine was just off loaded from your vehicle and first thing when you arrived some mechanic came to you and your machine and you both stood there as he opened your tank up and in front your very eyes, you watched as he dropped a CLEAN magnet into the tank and it came back with metal powered.......THEN and ONLY then would I buy this....Sry.
> 
> Just don't trust these dealers, plus the pump screens on these pumps (got one in hand) look to be no bigger than 50 microns, baking flour is like 25 microns, not sure of the internals of these pumps, but even metal powder at 50 microns and less running thought a rubber impeller type pump, the impeller would only see an abrasive suspended in a fluild and just wear down, wearing down an interferance fit in fact should make it run freer in time, not lock it up.........But, if you watched as I noted, who knows.


Saw it with my own eyes. My guess is that with Covid, and the lack of workers at the factory, inexperienced people produced parts, and did not clean/blow out the tanks. This is now 2 of the special editions that have issues. Since very few were delivered last winter, my guess is you are going to see a lot more of this issue when people fire their new Krakens and Mountaineering editions up this winter for the first time. Hopefully mine will be fine, since I have already had the needed repairs.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Shannon said:


> Saw it with my own eyes. My guess is that with Covid, and the lack of workers at the factory, inexperienced people produced parts, and did not clean/blow out the tanks. This is now 2 of the special editions that have issues. Since very few were delivered last winter, my guess is you are going to see a lot more of this issue when people fire their new Krakens and Mountaineering editions up this winter for the first time. Hopefully mine will be fine, since I have already had the needed repairs.


@Shannon You work for Ariens? I looked at your only posts here so far and your posts seem somehow.....ummmmm, very corporate motivated somehow.


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## Shannon (Oct 5, 2021)

Sam Am I said:


> @Shannon You work for Ariens? I looked at your only posts here so far and your posts seem somehow.....ummmmm, very corporate motivated somehow.


Seriously??? I was wondering the same thing about you, since you are defending them about metal shavings in my tank. Why would any Ariens employee bash Ariens? I am a RN and a very experienced DIYer in the twin cities that spent nearly 4 grand in April for a machine that has not yet seen a snow flake, yet already broke down and had to be serviced. I recommend you lay of the crack pipe 😅


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Shannon said:


> Seriously??? I was wondering the same thing about you, since you are defending them about metal shavings in my tank. Why would any Ariens employee bash Ariens? I am a RN and a very experienced DIYer in the twin cities that spent nearly 4 grand in April for a machine that has not yet seen a snow flake, yet already broke down and had to be serviced. I recommend you lay of the crack pipe 😅


LOL.....Sure thing


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Interesting @Shannon . I'll bring this up to the dealer for sure.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> Interesting @Shannon . I'll bring this up to the dealer for sure.


You c/should check yours real quick? Sounds like it should be very obvious and swirling around.......A peek in the tank tipping the machine using a flash light by the sounds of it.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I don't have a dog in this race but metal shavings the consistency of flour sounds a little suspicious. I wonder if there are powdered metal parts installed in these pumps that weren't cleaned properly? That would introduce a gritty type of powder that could lock up a pump with tight tolerances.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I'll take a peak... Maybe I'll drop a magnet in too.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Toon said:


> I don't have a dog in this race but metal shavings the consistency of flour sounds a little suspicious. I wonder if there are powdered metal parts installed in these pumps that weren't cleaned properly? That would introduce a gritty type of powder that could lock up a pump with tight tolerances.


But if that was the case, it would be highly unlikely that they would be able to be picked up with a magnet in the tank, and I would also expect the injector to be destroyed by them . . . neither of which appear to be the case.

I'm curious if the same basic tank is used on more than one machine, and they get "blanks" and machine the appropriate holes as part of mfg. and are failing to clean the tanks completely. Not much else makes sense . . .


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Anyone know what the mesh size is on the Ariens fuel filters? Briggs & Stratton appears to use 40 micron filters, and I believe mine are 10 micron for the most part in carbureted gas engines and 2-5 micron in FI engines.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

tabora said:


> Anyone know what the mesh size is on the Ariens fuel filters? Briggs & Stratton appears to use 40 micron filters, and I believe mine are 10 micron for the most part in carbureted gas engines and 2-5 micron in FI engines.













Not by manu's spec sheet(no clue who makes this thing) no, BUT I took this pic last night of my *SPARE* GLE(and Krakens) FP.......The filter is full of oil as I ran it in oil for long term storage.(Bummer is, It appears press fit manu'd, but half tempted to cut it open...God, I should get a life, Damn Crack Pipe is keep'n me down!!)

As a side by side visual comparison, I took one of my *Rusco 200 Mesh (75 micron) SS spin down sediment filters* laid it beside this thing, by eye ball, the pump screen appeared to be slightly smaller, guess 50 microns(250 Mesh), maybe less, not sure, but definitely smaller than 75 micron.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

tabora said:


> Anyone know what the mesh size is on the Ariens fuel filters? Briggs & Stratton appears to use 40 micron filters, and I believe mine are 10 micron for the most part in carbureted gas engines and 2-5 micron in FI engines.


Neither my Platinum nor my Pro have fuel filters, but both have carbs. The EFI models that i have seen have a fuel filter after the pump and before the injectors. The EFI pumps have a large sock in the tank to filter debris and that is large and fine as you would expect to safeguard the injectors.

Never any debris in my Platinum fuel bowl with just the screens. The powdered metal material may not be from the tank manufacturing process but from the gas supply source. A powdered substance does not sound like metal shavings from manufacturing process.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Sam Am I said:


> guess 50 microns


That sounds about right looking at it. This is a Honda tank joint filter; the mesh is so fine that it looks like silk.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Town said:


> Neither my Platinum nor my Pro have fuel filters


I would bet that they both have tank joint filters, just like my Hondas and my LCT. They may also have a hidden filter in the carb inlet.
On my GX390, for example, it's #27 in this diagram, and the mesh looks super fine (the spec I found said 10 micron):


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

tabora said:


> I would bet that they both have tank joint filters, just like my Hondas and my LCT. They may also have a hidden filter in the carb inlet.
> On my GX390, for example, it's #27 in this diagram, and the mesh looks super fine (the spec I found said 10 micron):
> View attachment 198862


I didn't count the two tank screens as filters, although they do filter the gas, and never found a screen in the carb. Your GX carb does not look like an Ariens model, certainly not like my Platinum. Ariens does sell a fuel filter which actually looks like a filter.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Town said:


> never found a screen in the carb.


Yeah, I just looked up the LCT/Ariens carb rebuild kits and there's no filter shown/listed. They're depending on the fuel tank joint plus any inline filter that may be used on some models.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

My Kraken has an inline fuel filter.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

tabora said:


> Yeah, I just looked up the LCT/Ariens carb rebuild kits and there's no filter shown/listed. They're depending on the fuel tank joint plus any inline filter that may be used on some models.


Thanks for taking the time to lookup the info. You are very thorough in your research.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Also due to owning a Kraken, I'm very curious with what the no start condition is caused by. The battery has been off my machine and on a minder since mid-April. My Kraken has almost 22 hours of runtime on it so if there was to be an early failure I would think I would be past that point. Looks like I should hook up the battery and give it a test sooner than later just to be sure.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

JJG723 said:


> Also due to owning a Kraken, I'm very curious with what the no start condition is caused by. The battery has been off my machine and on a minder since mid-April. My Kraken has almost 22 hours of runtime on it so if there was to be an early failure I would think I would be past that point. Looks like I should hook up the battery and give it a test sooner than later just to be sure.


I have too!!!! Ummmm okay, here goes.......,Did you look in the gas tank for metal shavings and powder? There I said it!!!


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Sam Am I said:


> I have too!!!! Ummmm okay, here goes.......,Did you look in the gas tank for metal shavings and powder? There I said it!!!


Can't say that I have.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

JJG723 said:


> Can't say that I have.


I think we're doing that now


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

With the size of the Kraken tank, the fact that my tank is full and has stabilizer that changes the color of the fuel slightly, there is no way I would see anything on the bottom of the tank. I may try a extending magnet retrieval tool but to be honest, I think mine might be the TB. @JJG723 can you confirm on your Kraken if your TB butterfly cycles when you first turn on your key? Mine doesn't move and @Sam Am I says his does with the key turned to position 2.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Yup, when I first turn the key just to "on", I always hear the servo rotating the butterfly around a bit and ALSO the pump hums pressurizing the line up and then the FI shoots a shot of gas, then all goes quiet.

With the key still in the "on" position, I then can run the throttle knobs up and down and can again hear the servo moving the butterfly following my movments of the throttle knob. If I then cycle the key to off, wait a few sec's and back to on, I hear the exact same butterfly wiggling bit again and another shot of gas........BUT, the pump however stays quiet because the fuel line was still charged from the prior time(pressure sensor in TB I since learn't). The pressure in the fuel line probably takes like hours to bleed off unless gas is being used..


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

On mine, I can hear the pump run and I can hear the fuel in the line pressurizing which is another reason I don't think mine is a locked pump. I suppose it could be an underperforming pump but mine isn't locked based on what I'm hearing.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Nah, I think your right, pump is good by the sound of it now, you're not getting fuel out the FI I think (FI bad or TB like your say'n).........I'd be hand pouring a bit of gas in that TB throat opening and see if she fires for a sec, if not, it's spark.

If it fires for a sec........fuel issue then.

Maybe plugged inline filter? The trouble shooting guide has you detach the fuel line to check if she pees out at the TB intake. If pees, back to FI or TB bad. If no pee and pump hummm, fuel filter or under preforming pump(plugged intake screen and crow dinner).


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I can't imagine the in line filter would suddenly plug up after less than 10 minutes of use. Plus, it's only got fuel in the lower 3rd of the filter. (It's translucent so the level is easily viewed.) So, if the lower 3rd that's currently in contact with fuel got plugged up, the fuel could easily pass over the unused 2/3rds of filter.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Agree, yeah with visual of fuel being in the inline filter points back at the FI/TB issue........A small bit of gas poured directly into the TB throat is a good tell tail bout now if you're of the mind set.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I could but with the FI port and spark plug being bone dry, I'm guessing that no fuel is getting in there and that pouring some in would probably briefly start it.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Yup esp since all is bone dry, agree......If the ECU is programmed as mine is, with adequate pressure, FI should have shot some fuel in, you have fuel to the filter and most likely into the TB, last stop FI or TB.

Else......Got fuel in the works, but is fuel pressure level okay? If the pump's humming is stopping? It then is pressuring up as you've said above, the fuel pressure sensor level then must be being met/detected and shutting the pump off, then pressure is most likely okay...(this also imples the intake screen is most likey clear as a plug on the intake of the pump wouldn't necessarily allow for proper pressure to develop on the output, guessing like 40psi within a few sec?(seems mine shuts off fairly fast). Thinking the pump s/would continue to run for extended periods as with slowed intake would come slowed shut off)

FWIW, if the fuel pressure sensor is working shutting off the pump as expected, then one part of the TB is still working because the fuel pressure sensor lives in the TB! If we then can say then the TB is alive, then it could be a stuck closed/dead FI?

Sry @system.....I derailed your question to @JJG723

@JJG723 Might your butterfly flip around at power up? Sounds personal.............


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

system said:


> With the size of the Kraken tank, the fact that my tank is full and has stabilizer that changes the color of the fuel slightly, there is no way I would see anything on the bottom of the tank. I may try a extending magnet retrieval tool but to be honest, I think mine might be the TB. @JJG723 can you confirm on your Kraken if your TB butterfly cycles when you first turn on your key? Mine doesn't move and @Sam Am I says his does with the key turned to position 2.





Sam Am I said:


> Yup esp since all is bone dry, agree......If the ECU is programmed as mine is, with adequate pressure, FI should have shot some fuel in, you have fuel to the filter and most likely into the TB, last stop FI or TB.
> 
> Else......Got fuel in the works, but is fuel pressure level okay? If the pump's humming is stopping? It then is pressuring up as you've said above, the fuel pressure sensor level then must be being met/detected and shutting the pump off, then pressure is most likely okay...(this also imples the intake screen is most likey clear as a plug on the intake of the pump wouldn't necessarily allow for proper pressure to develop on the output, guessing like 40psi within a few sec?(seems mine shuts off fairly fast). Thinking the pump s/would continue to run for extended periods as with slowed intake would come slowed shut off)
> 
> ...


First off, Sam am I, I think at this point you owe me dinner 😋😂.

Here is a video I put in one of the other threads. I shot this last winter so it's not current (still haven't put the battery back on yet) but you can hear the butterfly cycle when I first put the key in the on position.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

JJG723 said:


> First off, Sam am I, I think at this point you owe me dinner 😋😂.






@system Pin #11 have 12V'ish?


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Just as a suggestion, have all connectors on the ECU, TB, etc. been removed, checked, and replaced to ensuren that they are making good contact? The throttle servo and injector are unlikely to have much in common other than the harness power and ground lines. This might be as simple as the factory failed to fully mate a connector . . .


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## BazookaJoe (Oct 6, 2019)

A buddy brought me his KTM EFI dirt bike which wouldn't fire. The bike had been sitting over winter, and I'm sure he did nothing for winter storage besides push it to the other side of the garage. The pump would run, gas smelled good, etc. The issue was a sticking fuel injector. I pulled the injector, shot in a little Quick Silver Power Tuner and connected up a method to get a little air pressure (25 psi or so) to the fuel supply. I then cycled the injector with a 12 VDC power source. Just tap the contacts to click it several times to allow the Power Tuner to get into the inner workings. When the injector was clear, the liquid flowed thru the injector. The bike started instantly after reassembly.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

First thing I did was check the seating of all connectors. I didn't check PIN 11 but did check PIN 12 and have 12v going to the pump. Why am I checking 11? 12.35v on 11.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> First thing I did was check the seating of all connectors. I didn't check PIN 11 but did check PIN 12 and have 12v going to the pump. Why am I checking 11?


12V feed to TB.....But nevermind lost track that you check and had pump power, pin #11 feeds pin #12 I think, so moot point.....TB is most likely bad, we've covered it all +1 sounds.

{{{EDIT and a bit of a retract to the above}}} And this is perhaps the masters level of TMI in our trip and goes back to a statement about "high side" and "low side" switching mentioned previously....I don't see a positive feed from the TB connector labeled "pump +".....pin #12 TB connector is labeled "pump -". This implies "pump -" pin is a "low side" switch/transistor within the TB that grounds the pump to turn it on.........(Called "open collector" or "open drain" in the biz,, seen below)

The pump's "pump+" therefor comes from somewhere else AND is probably just a hard tied to the battery more or less, but through a fuse or something.

Why is this important? To me from the trouble shooting side, because reading TB pin #12 could STILL be 12V(pump has power) WITH actually a dead TB (TB Pin #11 TB power could be 0V from ECU and you'd still get 12V pin #12). Why?.....Because a 12V reading on pin #12 with 0V on pin #11 can occur BECAUSE the reading is the pump's "pump +" 12V feed, but you can read it THROUGH the DC pumps windings to the pump's "pump-" TB pin #11........Recall DC motor resistance is just a few ohms usually.

HOWEVER, I see you went back and have measured pin #11and got 12.35V....This is good!! Proves ECU is providing TB 12V, TB powers and controls FI and Butterfly Servo which by @JJG723 vid shows it should fire up at key on.........ECU has power, TB has power, pump has power, FI has pressure.....99% TB is bad.







Basically the same as








{{{{Re-edit}}}} "DC pumps windings to the pump's "pump-" TB* pin #12"".........*.NOT ""pump-" TB pin #11" 

TB pin #11 is "ECU+" but yall knew that.

Geeesh, editors these days suck at their jobs!!!


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## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

This would be the first TB failure. Bad fuel pumps, and low battery/bad battery so far. Perhaps an EFI trouble thread is in order?


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Sam Am I said:


> 12V feed to TB.....But nevermind lost track that you check and had pump power, pin #11 feeds pin #12 I think, so moot point.....TB is most likely bad, we've covered it all +1 sounds.
> 
> {{{EDIT and a bit of a retract to the above}}} And this is perhaps the masters level of TMI in our trip and goes back to a statement about "high side" and "low side" switching mentioned previously....I don't see a positive feed from the TB connector labeled "pump +".....pin #12 TB connector is labeled "pump -". This implies "pump -" pin is a "low side" switch/transistor within the TB that grounds the pump to turn it on.........(Called "open collector" or "open drain" in the biz,, seen below)
> 
> ...


That still does not explain to me how the servo and FI can both be down. It seems that despite both being mounted on the TB, that they are electrically separate . . .

And (I am being lazy here and not rereading), but has the OP stated what indicators are showing on the ECU?

And has anyone (if possible) tried a noid light on the injector plug to see if the ECU is trying to fire it?


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

27. Low fuel pressure.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Fuel tank...


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)




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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Mine doesn't do that.


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## Toolboxhero (Dec 24, 2010)

Since the EFI powers up I'm going to assume it's OK. So, I suggest trying the simplest explanation first. 1. Is there fuel in the tank? (Remove the screen from the filler and check) 2. Is the fuel shut-off valve turned to the on position? (If there is one)


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## captainrob1 (Dec 16, 2018)

system said:


> At the end of last March I bought a Kraken. Snow was done for the season so I stabilized the fuel, put the battery on a tender and covered it in the corner of the garage. Yesterday, I decided to clean the garage and needed to move the blower. Well, what do you know. She cranks fine but will not start. I pulled the plug and it appears it's not getting fuel. With Monday being labor day, my selling dealer is closed for the long weekend. Before I make the two hour round trip for warranty service next Tuesday, does anyone have any suggestions on something simple I can check at home?
> 
> PS: I have servicing dealers closer but bought where I did because they were the only place that had a Kraken to sell. Are dealers generally willing to service machines not sold by them or am I best served making the trip to the selling dealer?


Does it have a safety key? I assume it does but make sure it’s seated …if out a bit it may not start…just a thought


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Since it is getting a 27 (low pressure) it may never get to the other tests (throttle sweep, injector shot), depending on how the ECU is programmed. Based on that, I'd suspect pump or fuel pressure sensor. You might want to take the line off the pump and see if it will move anything . . . as I recall, it can be heard to run, so might have a chunk of crud in a valve that might flush out. Were I paying for this, I'd go for a pump first since they are pretty cheap . . . (or work on that one - it can't get any more dead). All depends on warranty . . .


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

tadawson said:


> I'd suspect pump or fuel pressure sensor. You might want to take the line off the pump and see if it will move anything . . . as I recall, it can be heard to run,


OP said he heard/hears the pump run/hum and then it stops and sees fuel in the opaque inline filter.......To me that says(mine works the same way) the pump is pressuring up the line(and thus the input to FI is charged) and because the pump's humming stops after a small bit says the pressure sensor is doing it job shutting off the pump when it senses the line pressure reached the correct pressure level in due time(intake screen should be clear then). So thinking with that, the pump, its intake screen and fuel pressure sensor must all be working more or less properly, right?



tadawson said:


> That still does not explain to me how the servo and FI can both be down. It seems that despite both being mounted on the TB, that they are electrically separate . . .


Not sure but the ECU's TB connector pin-outs lists both drive signals and supply voltages for FI (FI - [low side drive, FI + probably just ties solid high like pump +]) and the Servo (servo +, servo -, servo sig).........They are feed into the TB and* I think* right back to each item(FI and Servo), this to me says since the ECU drives both via the TB interconnect, the ECU(or the TB) isn't turning either on for some reason. We know the ECU has power and the ECU is sending power out to the TB(pin #11)....Kind of left with only the TB or worst case , the ECU. ECU seems to be clocking sane still(gens error code although erroneous), so hedge betting the TB not ECU.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Sam Am I said:


> OP said he heard/hears the pump run/hum and then it stops and sees fuel in the opaque inline filter.......To me that says(mine works the same way) the pump is pressuring up the line(and thus the input to FI is charged) and because the pump's humming stops after a small bit says the pressure sensor is doing it job shutting off the pump when it senses the line pressure reached the correct pressure level. So thinking with that, the pump and pressure sensor must be working more or less properly, right?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure but the ECU's TB connector pin-outs lists both drive signals and supply voltages for FI (FI - [low side drive, FI + probably just ties solid high like pump +]) and the Servo (servo +, servo -, servo sig).........They are feed into the TB and* I think* right back to each item(FI and Servo), this to me says since the ECU drives both via the TB interconnect, the ECU(or the TB) isn't turning either on for some reason. We know the ECU has power and the ECU is sending power out to the TB(pin #11)....Kind of left with only the TB or worst case , the ECU. ECU seems to be clocking sane still(gens error code although erroneous), so hedge betting the TB not ECU.


Then how is he getting the 27 code on the ECU? It would be nice to know the programming . . . . gotta wonder if it runs for a period, and then if it does not see pressure, shuts the pump down and locks out. Others have reported that a second "key-on" event typically does not run the pump, since the system is already at pressure. I can't recall reading if that has been tried here (or how long it runs when it does).

Myself, I'd put a pressure gauge on it to be certain . . .


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

tadawson said:


> Then how is he getting the 27 code on the ECU? It would be nice to know the programming . . . . gotta wonder if it runs for a period, and then if it does not see pressure, shuts the pump down and locks out. Others have reported that a second "key-on" event typically does not run the pump, since the system is already at pressure. I can't recall reading if that has been tried here (or how long it runs when it does).
> 
> Myself, I'd put a pressure gauge on it to be certain . . .


I know, I think the 27 is erroneously gen'd(book mentions off codes due to other failures)) because of the other issues that relate to he never gets the tell tale servo movement nor the shot of fuel, should get at least servo with or w/o gas, mine did...........I reported that too because my line stays charged after the first key on, pressure sensor still knows this and inhibits the continued running of the pump when key is cycled again, BUT the book does state you can flood the TB by over cycling the key, of course this would only happen when the FI is fueling properly because each key on bring a shot of fuel regardless....Guessing the fuel line probably stays charged for hours unless gas is being used/shot in the TB by the FI. Yes on the gauge or loosen a hose clamp with key on(or cycled again) and if it pisses nice and pump kicks on again, probably okay and certainly would just back up the fact of he heard the pump hum, there's fuel in the filter and did shut/stayed off due to most likely ample pressure sensed by the pressure sensor......I think the horse is kicked?


Total side bar..........The stock servo that is used in the/my GLE (and Kraken?) that I have on the bench doesn't run "sweep" itself when powered up. It can be in any position and when power is applied, it just sits there(Is this typical? Not sure and isn't the point). Why is this important though?.......The pic mirco controller (PIC16F616) internal to the servo isn't coded for moving/sweeping the servo upon power up, It is the blowers ECU via the TB connector (servo +, servo -, servo sig) that has to be wiggling it about on power up.....Just a side note for later, who knows why or when. BUT, I think it relates here in that the stock servo is acting right if all it's getting is power and NO sig. It is the ECU via the TB connecter "servo-signal" that must be dead/missing.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Yes, that is typical for RC servos. When there is no signal sent to them, they typically go limp, and when signal is present, they go directly to the commanded position. (Think how ugly it would be in an aircraft that was having power issues if a flight control did a sweep mid fllight . . .). The test sweep is clearly coming from the ECU . . .


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

JJG723 said:


>


Did you drain the fuel tank at the end of the season and what fuel plus additives (if any) you used for your recent very successful start.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Town said:


> Did you drain the fuel tank at the end of the season and what fuel plus additives (if any) you used for your recent very successful start.


89 octane, 10% ethanol blend, treated with Ethanol Shield. Fuel tank was filled to the max to help prevent condensation buildup.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Town said:


> Did you drain the fuel tank at the end of the season and what fuel plus additives (if any) you used for your recent very successful start.



I just drained my tank, ran it till it died and walked away(call me a rebel)............Few days ago, poured a cap full of non-eth in the tank, turned the key on, pump hummed for a sec, servo wiggled about and first pull baby!!! Runs like a top!!


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

I have a '72 10000. It runs. I'll trade you straight up for that non-running 'Krackin'.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> Mine doesn't do that.


@system

I was hoping you might share your service shops name?

I'm getting conflicting info and parts from Ariens (and dealers) that doesn't make sense regarding the flywheel and ignition coil for a Kraken and from what I'm finding, it sounds like there are only a few Kraken's out there so far and yours might be the only one so far that might be being seen by mech that might be able to help solve a mystery.............

The conflicting info..........Ariens/LCT parts break outs for Kraken(Mountineering) shows/sells a CDI ignition coil(Pic 1) that has to be of course ran with a magnetic pulse via a outside mounted flywheel magnet, (Pic 2), BUT all the dealers including Ariens only calls out/sells a Kraken(Mountineering) flywheel that has NO magnet mounted outside(Pic 3)........No one can tell me why on the same engine/s they are listing/selling a flywheel *without* the outer magnet to run with their listed CDI ig coil that requires the outer magnet.....WTH? The two don't jive.......Yet both are being sold/listed in the same engine/s.








Pic 1 Part #: 20001159
Called out/sold for 926520 and 926521(Kraken/Mountineering[among others]) to work with Part #: 20001533 (Pic 3) according to Ariens/LCT(requires outer flywheel magnet)








Pic 2 Part #: 20001142, Called out/sold to work with Part #: 20001159 (Pic 1)
*I run both Pic 1 and Pic 2, my 921066 parts list has called out/sold the two correctly *









Pic 3 Part #: 20001533
*NOTE**.......No outside magnet(nor one integrated into steel)
Called out/sold for 926520 and 926521(Kraken/Mountineering) and to be used with Part #: 20001159 (Pic 1) according to Ariens/LCT......This type flywheel though looks to be for a hall effect/prox sensor setup that counts pulse width steps(see on edge steps w one odd spacing) and triggers a external CDI box DEFINITELY not a mag armature type CDI Ig.(Pic 1)

The "Problem".......Pic 1 is documented and sold by Ariens to work with Pic 3(and vice versa), but Pic 1 can and does only work with Pic 2(outside mounted mag type).......So if I buy a Pic 3 flywheel(which I did) according to their own docs, it is suppose to work if I have Pic 1 ig coil........NOT!!! No magnet!! Not even a cutout for one...........

Ariens claims they're limited to LCT docs, and of course seems helpless/clueless and goes on the defensive, LCT only refers out to shops that work on the motors.....Geeesh, something is wrong with their documentation I think and because China is driving the ship, well you know the rest.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I don't have one but is it possible your Kraken has points, a coil, and a battery thus requiring no magnet? Do you have a wiring diagram for your machine that we could look at?


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Toon said:


> I don't have one but is it possible your Kraken has points, a coil, and a battery thus requiring no magnet? Do you have a wiring diagram for your machine that we could look at?


No, it's not even remotely possible his Kraken from 2021-2022 has points.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Toon said:


> I don't have one but is it possible your Kraken has points, a coil, and a battery thus requiring no magnet? Do you have a wiring diagram for your machine that we could look at?


Me either and no, no points on this motor. I'm just *ordering* the parts from LCT/Ariens using their provided parts diagram for their specific engine................yes








Flywheel Part #8 must have a discrete ig coil magnet mounted to itself (Pic 2 example above) in order to run Part #18 (Pic 1 above)................If I order part #8, Ariens/dealers are only shipping a flywheel with no magnet (Pic 3 above).

How does the saying go? Superman where are you now? @Ariens Company where are you these days?* It's been about 7 yrs*


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Howdy boys. Just got the call. The blower is done. Fuel pump assembly was the issue. This is my dealer: Welcome - South Side Sales - Power Equipment, Snowmobiles, Mowers, Tractors and More

They have another Kraken in stock if anyone needs one. It might even start...


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> Howdy boys. Just got the call. The blower is done. Fuel pump assembly was the issue. This is my dealer: Welcome - South Side Sales - Power Equipment, Snowmobiles, Mowers, Tractors and More
> 
> They have another Kraken in stock if anyone needs one. It might even start...


Awesome and thanks, I'll take it for penny's on the dollar if(when?) it doesn't start..........LOL.

Seems there might be a bad run of pumps which seem intermittent as if i recall right, you did report you saw a 27 at first, but then it cleared as the pump hummed and the LED was solid with no error code showing..........Glad you're good now and crossing fingers for deeeeep snows this year.

Flaky pumps out there I think as @rlogan @jr27236 @kvanid had bad pumps as well as you @system , maybe @GeorgePowell's not clear on that one, @Shannon's went out, but had metal......Hmmmm.


I wonder if the service centers have a pump revision number out now on those pumps? or we're just swapping bad with bad? or perhaps it was just a small batch issue?......... Time will tell I reckon.......But @Shannon has set a stage of a "guess is you are going to see a lot more of this issue when people fire their new Krakens and Mountaineering editions up this winter for the first time" and I think I agree on a level as we are seeing brand new moralities that shouldn't happen, but I'm not sure its all metal shavings and I'm fairly certain all 2021/22 EFI's(my GLE does) are running this same pump, not just Krakens and Mountineering's.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

As I showed and mentioned in one of my previous posts, my Kraken fired up no problem after sitting since April. Also it has 22 hrs. of runtime on it. That said, I think stocking a fuel pump for it is a good insurance plan.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

JJG723 said:


> As I showed and mentioned in one of my previous posts, my Kraken fired up no problem after sitting since April. Also it has 22 hrs. of runtime on it. That said, I think stocking a fuel pump for it is a good insurance plan.


Agreed and got one already, very very easy to replace. I powered it with 12V, let it suck up a bit of oil for storage. I fired up okay too the other day, first pull.......Small batch pump issue I hope.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I confirmed with the dealer that this is a pretty common thing from last spring. They had a few like this already this year and they just sold a Mountaineering unit last week and had to swap the pump before the sale as it was DOA. I'm hoping it's a small batch issue. They got all their SE models last March so likely similar build dates. Will see...

That said, they really pissed me off. I picked up my machine the day after it was delivered to the dealer. It was 100% perfect. I put it in the garage out of direct sunlight when it got home. Now, after 1.5 weeks the dealer, it looks like it has been sitting outside for a year or two. All the upward facing surfaces (air inlet cover and fuel tank) are deglossed as if the sun faded them or someone took fine steel wool to them. I'm guessing what happened is, because the fuel tank was so full from never being used, it made a mess when removing and draining and the gas that was wiped off but not cleaned up, killed the finish on the paint. There are also 4 scratches on the fuel tank. Not sure what the heck went on during a simple fuel pump change! I didn't notice until I got home and now have a call into them and waiting to hear back. I know it's "just a snowblower" but when you spend near 5k with tax on something like this, you are somewhat of an OPE enthusiast and don't want your new toy looking like an old toy before it was ever used...


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

For crap sakes.........I think most everyone here takes pride in our machines old or new, that's totally wrong, I'm even bummed now!! What a shitty deal to do to a guy's new machine. Someone else a year back mentioned this same EXACT thing that was done to their brand new machine......Maybe they'll chime in and share as perhaps their was some resolution for them, not sure, but they were just as pissed off, I do recall that.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Sam Am I said:


> For crap sakes.........I think most everyone here takes pride in our machines old or new, that's totally wrong, I'm even bummed now!! What a shitty deal to do to a guy's new machine. Someone else a year back mentioned this same EXACT thing that was done to their brand new machine......Maybe they'll chime in and share as perhaps their was some resolution for them, not sure, but they were just as pissed off, I do recall that.



I take care of my 1999 to an extent.
I won't leave it outside, and I try not to put it away too salty.

But a new $5K machine is a little different in my book. I'd expect that to be kept immaculate especially by the dealer. It's my job to destroy it, not theirs.

Isn't this the 2nd recent post on here about an Ariens dealer treating a new machine this way?


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

ChrisJ said:


> .Isn't this the 2nd recent post on here about an Ariens dealer treating a new machine this way?


Yup, brand new and had to also go back in for servicing as I recall it, wouldn't run right.......Seen *here*


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

So, heard back from the dealer. They were very sorry about the scratches on the tank but offered no restitution. On the fading, they insisted this is an LCT issue. The service guy said the owner has been complaining to Ariens about this for some time now as all the new machines on his lot look the same after just a couple weeks in the sun. I guess that could be possible as gas spills on tank tops all the time and it never takes the finish off. If that's the case then shame on LCT/Ariens for a low quality paint job and shame on the dealer for adding insult to injury with the scratches.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> they insisted this is an LCT issue.


Hmmm, this is resonating lately seems.....Ownership and accountability or lack there of is a convenience these days esp when either, you choose, works to your advantage......Ahhhh, its a bright new consumer world out there with dealers selling manu's products who outsource their parts and labor! Nothing new I reckon just such a PITA.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

system said:


> So, heard back from the dealer. They were very sorry about the scratches on the tank but offered no restitution. On the fading, they insisted this is an LCT issue. The service guy said the owner has been complaining to Ariens about this for some time now as all the new machines on his lot look the same after just a couple weeks in the sun. I guess that could be possible as gas spills on tank tops all the time and it never takes the finish off. If that's the case then shame on LCT/Ariens for a low quality paint job and shame on the dealer for adding insult to injury with the scratches.


If a dealer is displaying his new machines out doors and notices fading after a couple of weeks, why would he continue to put new machines out doors? Doesn't make sense.
Also, a customer's machine, especially when it is brand new is in for repairs, it should never be stored out doors in the elements, especially when the dealer is apparently aware of the issue with fading or discolouration.

IMHO the dealer needs to take some responsibility in this case and make things right.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I agree boys. I'm just not up for the fight. I could remove the tank and air inlet area cover and spray it for free. Or I could spend two more 2 hour round trips bringing it up and back... and that's if they offered to help which so far, they haven't.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

I'd be pissed also! The last thing I did last season before I pulled the battery on mine was to totally wash the whole machine down and then I coated it and fluid film. It looks showroom ready.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

JJG723 said:


> It looks showroom ready.


Ditto, I was just crawling in the bucket with the touch up brush...Geeesh

And @JJG723, if you get a wild hair and happen to pull the cover off to want to clean the rust off your iron flywheel to clear coat it (drippy rust water issue I've noted, see Pic 2 post #107), I'd gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today If you happen to snap me a picture of it and the Ig. coil. 

Ooops....Post #104


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

I'll give you a 10000 in trade that might start, but you'll be a lot less disappointed when it doesn't.
I paid 125 for it, so I don't feel those feelings after spending $5,000.

Read 'Superiority' by Arthur C. Clarke. He was a fine writer.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Just ordered a new pump from Pats Small Engine Plus. $20. Much better than the $140 Ariens wants. Still $10 to ship but I'll take that deal lol.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

JJG723 said:


> Just ordered a new pump from Pats Small Engine Plus. $20. Much better than the $140 Ariens wants. Still $10 to ship but I'll take that deal lol.


Piece of mind if anything and no different than extra shear pins esp for the level at which you require your machine.........Ya just loosen the tank(let it flop a bit), pop the flywheel cover off(5 bolts I think), un-due two wires(they have safety releases), then the three pumps mounting screws and it pops right out....I would steer clear of any "mechs" doing this cuz it's so easy and even if it's under warranty, but that's just me...

By the time you haul it there, wait for weeks usually, go through the BS and get it back....Nope, no way, too easy.......If you have any mech abilities, I'd say 0.5hrs tops using your wife's kitchen drawer tools, even on a bad hair day!


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Sam Am I said:


> Piece of mind if anything and no different than extra shear pins esp for the level at which you require your machine.........Ya just loosen the tank(let it flop a bit), pop the flywheel cover off(5 bolts I think), un-due two wires(they have safety releases), then the three pumps mounting screws and it pops right out....I would steer clear of any "mechs" doing this cuz it's so easy and even if it's under warranty, but that's just me...
> 
> By the time you haul it there, wait for weeks usually, go through the BS and get it back....Nope, no way, too easy.......If you have any mech abilities, I'd say 0.5hrs tops using your wife's kitchen drawer tools, even on a bad hair day!


Absolutely! I've never taken any of my machines to the dealer for service. I also used to do a lot of snowblower repairs for people on the side. Life got in the way of that. Obviously going into buying this machine I had no experience with the EFI setup so that would have been the only thing I would have needed a dealer for. Even that would be only after if I was unable to figure out the problem myself.

That's another reason why I love this forum, so many knowledgeable people willing to help each other. Anytime I come across any EFI issues here i make sure to keep up to date with the posts to continue learning. The fuel pump swap is quite basic, plug and play. Just as simple and cheap as a carb swap. So far it appears that 99.9% of the EFI issues people are having are do to either low voltage from the battery or a bad pump. Easy peasy 👍


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

JJG723 said:


> I had no experience with the EFI setup so that would have been the only thing I would have needed a dealer for. Even that would be only after if I was unable to figure out the problem myself.


You among 99% of the rest of us here that are reading what we're doing, done, shared and have experienced have more knowledge on these new EFI's machines than 99% of the mech's out there that are deemed competent to wrench on our machines(new or old).

We pack 'um up and take them to them when broke and trust these guys that don't know jack, our new machines are too new and these folks who feed most of us lines of BS aren't required to educate themselves on these machines, NO WAY, it's impossible based on many convo's I have had with these guys from coast to coast......Most haven't read two words or even know or care to know the basics on how these work, I'm finding this out daily and that is absolutely no stretch....

One guy working at a Ariens dealer thought I was lying to him when I told him I(me) can buy Ariens parts, I'm not kidding and how is this even possible? Did Ariens back in the day not sell parts direct to the consumer perhaps and he hasn't gotten out much lately?

It is literally alarming how detached ppl who provide us service have become with all this outsourcing and/or they simply are just not caring enough........The other day I called LCT service and her dog was crapping on the floor and she was yelling at it with me on the line, I'm like oh isn't this JOYOUS!.........This person knew nothing and was just in my way, sad.

Maybe should just cash in and get a shovel....LOL


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Sam Am I said:


> One guy working at a Ariens dealer thought I was lying to him when I told him I(me) can buy Ariens parts, I'm not kidding and how is this even possible? Did Ariens back in the day not sell parts direct to the consumer perhaps and he hasn't gotten out much lately?


Wow! Either this guy is trying to trick people into having his shop do any and all service work or his incompetence knows no bounds.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

JJG723 said:


> Just ordered a new pump from Pats Small Engine Plus. $20. Much better than the $140 Ariens wants. Still $10 to ship but I'll take that deal lol.


My dealer quoted me $70 for a spare pump but maybe that was their cost?


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

@JJG723 got a screaming deal for $20, never heard of that low of price...Geeesh, buy 5 and give them out as Christmas presents 

I waaaaaay over paid through my dealer, feel I need to report it to the police as a crime!! This is exactly the other reason why I dislike/distrust dealers, I know they have to pay their bills but come on, I'm paying for their golf game too?.............Here's another deal, not as good @JJG723's but close...$33.82

Ref 96 2460 LCT Engines 24601 Efi Fuel Pump Assy






Replacement Parts for Briggs & Stratton, Echo, Simplicity, Toro & More


Use Small Engine Parts Warehouse's Quick Parts Lookup to Search and Locate the Replacement Parts by brand, model, or part number, fast.




www.sepw.com


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Unless someone has an issue with me forwarding this thread to a relative of mine who works for Ariens I am going to do so.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Cstanis said:


> Unless someone has an issue with me forwarding this thread to a relative of mine who works for Ariens I am going to do so.


Public forum and thank you. I can only speak for me, I have no bones about it and I'm sure Ariens corp already has a mystery shopper or two here as well...


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Sam Am I said:


> I know they have to pay their bills but come on, I'm paying for their golf game too?


I have a retail business, and it costs money to keep the lights on. For a 1200 sq ft space, my monthly overhead for rent, electricity, internet, phones, insurance, etc. is about $4,000, so until I make that much I'm in the hole... Therefore, repair parts and merchandise gets marked up 100% over my cost, and it's still a bargain for my customers in almost all cases since I'm a very frugal buyer.

Looking forward to full retirement from retail at the end of the year. I'll still do a lot of the same services for my customers, just without the retail location overhead.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Here is where I ordered from.

Ariens EFI fuel pump 

https://www.psep1.biz/showcart.asp?...89E1M_(942070202)_Parts_Assembly&instance_id=[/URL]


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Sam Am I said:


> Public forum and thank you. I can only speak for me, I have no bones about it and I'm sure Ariens corp already has a mystery shopper or two here as well...


I forwarded this thread and he will look into the issues you are having and let me know what he finds out


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Good to hear @Cstanis. On the cosmetic issues I faced, I got (but missed) a call from the owner of the shop I bought from today. I called back but he was on the other line. Will see how he addresses it when he calls back. A new tank would be great but two more 2+ hour round trips would kill a lot of the value there. Here are some pics of my machine. You can see the air inlet cover came out all brushed looking when I tried to wash it. The tank has 4 scratches on 2 sides, the top is completely deglossed, and has white drip marks from the side of the inlet. I also have a lot of small scratches below my hydro lever. Not sure where they came from. Maybe they ran a cable through it since it was outside?


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

This is what they think of their flagship machine.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

system said:


> Good to hear @Cstanis. On the cosmetic issues I faced, I got (but missed) a call from the owner of the shop I bought from today. I called back but he was on the other line. Will see how he addresses it when he calls back. A new tank would be great but two more 2+ hour round trips would kill a lot of the value there. Here are some pics of my machine. You can see the air inlet cover came out all brushed looking when I tried to wash it. The tank has 4 scratches on 2 sides, the top is completely deglossed, and has white drip marks from the side of the inlet. I also have a lot of small scratches below my hydro lever. Not sure where they came from. Maybe they ran a cable through it since it was outside?
> View attachment 199865
> View attachment 199866
> View attachment 199867
> ...


This is how it came back from the dealer?


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Yes indeed. It was brand new when I dropped it. It had gotten picked up the day after the dealer got it and been stored inside under a sheet since... Now it looks like it's been sitting outside for years...


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

system said:


> Yes indeed. It was brand new when I dropped it. It had gotten picked up the day after the dealer got it and been stored inside under a sheet since... Now it looks like it's been sitting outside for years...


I will send the pictures to him as well just for reference


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I do appreciate that. I'm still amazed at what could happen in a week and a half. If I didn't recognize it as my blower because I removed all the safety stickers and added an hour meter, I would bet money it wasn't even my blower I was getting back. It was literally a different machine than I dropped of.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

system said:


> I do appreciate that. I'm still amazed at what could happen in a week and a half. If I didn't recognize it as my blower because I removed all the safety stickers and added an hour meter, I would bet money it wasn't even my blower I was getting back. It was literally a different machine than I dropped of.


Unless they couldn't figure it out and removed the same stickers and put your meter on it?


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

system said:


> I do appreciate that. I'm still amazed at what could happen in a week and a half. If I didn't recognize it as my blower because I removed all the safety stickers and added an hour meter, I would bet money it wasn't even my blower I was getting back. It was literally a different machine than I dropped of.


You check the serial numbers


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Yes, the numbers are right. They aren’t going to give me an old tank if they are hiding something.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

system said:


> Yes, the numbers are right. They aren’t going to give me an old tank if they are hiding something.


You'd be amazed.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

You're right. Anything is possible but my numbers still match... Although, you did get me nervous enough to go double check. What's interesting is the rest of the machine still looks 100% perfect. Anything Ariens manufactured is like new. It's only the LCT finish that's shot.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

system said:


> It was literally a different machine than I dropped of.


I wonder if just the engine (or the tank, etc.) were swapped? Did you compare the engine serial numbers?


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

It's all the same machine. Somehow they scratched my panel and sticker under the hydro control and deglossed the tank and air inlet. Maybe some harsh cleaner because on closer inspection of the sides, I can see where it ran down and left dull streaks.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Maybe they dipped the tank?


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## GeorgePowell (Mar 17, 2019)

Sam Am I said:


> Yeah, this isn't looking so good......Is this 1 out of 100,000 or 1 out of 10 that were seeing? I don't know the sales numbers, but I'm starting to wonder. Do you think Ariens will be here soon to tell us?


welcome to EFI ...hard to fix you cannot clean and rebuilt it like a carb.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I love the old carb is better because it's simple mentality...LOL. I have EFI on everything that it's available on. Sleds, ATVs, lawn tractor, snow blower, etc. Never a problem and still not a problem here. It was a bad run on fuel pumps. Does it suck to bring a new machine in under warranty? Sure. Is it filling my dreams with regret for buying this blower? Hardly. 

Anyways, the owner of the dealer did get back to me last night. He said that the fading definitely wasn't from the sun in such a short time. So, it was either a reaction from gas soaking on the cheap LTC paint or a mix of fuel and whatever was used to clean it off. I know it wasn't my cleaning of the machine as I just used car wash when I got it home. The scratches on the other hand he admitted were completely unacceptable. He told me he'd order me a new tank and I could either have them swap it or if I didn't want to make the round trip, he would ship it to me and I could swap it myself. Fair enough. I've already cleaned up the little nicks by the hydro lever with some Mr. Clean which I used to make ATV plastic look like new where branches rub past on the trail. Then it's down to just the TB cover which I can spray while it's off doing the tank. So, while I shouldn't have had to do any of this, there is not much more I can do at this point....


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

You can clean EFI.
And there's absolutely nothing "simple" about a carburetor. EFI is far simpler.

The reason people dislike EFI is primarily they don't understand it. But there's so much less to go wrong vs carb it's hard to even put into words. You've got a fuel pump and a valve that fully opens for so long and fully closes for so long, nothing else especially on a snow blower. On a car / truck you have the O2 sensor(s) that fine tune things in real time.

The main reason I've always liked carburetors is it's incredible how they work but there's nothing simple about it.

The reason I'm against EFI on snowblowers right now is I think it's half baked and as cheap as they could do it so I don't trust it.


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## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

system said:


> It was a bad run on fuel pumps.


I think so too, one of the front desk guys at your dealers I spoke with the other day has sort of confirmed our already suspicions, he said "he was speaking with a Ariens rep regarding the pumps as they have had to replace a few now, and NO revision part number has been issued for a replacement pump(albeit this c/would imply a recall of sorts), and they're thinking it was just a bad small batch that leaked in at manu time"

No time frame or number of units was discussed/given when this may have occurred of course, but I'm sure Ariens knows probably down to the month or week of the run and the number of units..............My guess is it was some of the earlier 2020/2021 units, Manu'd some time around summer of 2020.

EFI's that used fuel part number 20001459 that appear to be effected are GLE, Mountinaeering and Kraken, they all seem to have got their share of bad pumps.

This might be a buyer beware of that time frame of machine I reckon then.........BUT this is just my opinion of course based on somewhat limited observations/info shared.

This dealers statement more or less parallels the direction we were all leaning based on the empirical evidence we've all been seeing/reported here as well, this of sorts, is a good thing I guess you could say.......The best I can tell at this point, It's not a machine/design flaw, far from it, it's just looks to be a limited number of EFI's that in a small time frame have had the misfortune of getting a bum pump installed.




system said:


> Is it filling my dreams with regret for buying this blower? Hardly.


Ditto



system said:


> Anyways, the owner of the dealer did get back to me last night.


Glad they're are working with you...........cool!!


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## jherbicide (Oct 14, 2021)

ChrisJ said:


> You can clean EFI.
> And there's absolutely nothing "simple" about a carburetor. EFI is far simpler.
> 
> The reason people dislike EFI is primarily they don't understand it. But there's so much less to go wrong vs carb it's hard to even put into words. You've got a fuel pump and a valve that fully opens for so long and fully closes for so long, nothing else especially on a snow blower. On a car / truck you have the O2 sensor(s) that fine tune things in real time.
> ...


Nitpicky here, but I think “simple” is how you look at it. EFI is “simple” in concept, but it takes “complicated” components to execute. (Like the control module & fuel pump), along with lots of extra parts compared to a carb. It requires electricity, electronics, sensors to operate.

A carb is complex in concept, with all of the jets, passages, etc, but is “simple” in execution, it doesn’t require electricity, electronics, and sensors. For this application, it also requires a governor too.

I completely agree with you on the current half baked EFI execution on these machines. If it was similar to the system used on sleds (ahem no battery) and used “high quality” components (ahem fuel pump) I don’t think we’d have near the discussions in regards, because the problems would be non existent.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

@jherbicide I think I can agree with that.


@Sam Am I A bad run of fuel pumps could easily kill a product if it happens under these conditions. It puts a bad taste in everyone's mouth and they loose all faith in the idea right off the bat.

As we see going on here.

IMO which isn't worth much, such an introduction should've been carefully controlled to make sure nothing went terribly wrong and the product was well received. Problems can happen later, not early on.

Of course there's also how a company handles the issue. If they bend over backwards to keep customers happy etc. That doesn't seem to be the case here either.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Actually, failures on release are very common. This is why many are against buying the first year of a redesigned vehicle or new engine offered by a vehicle manufacturer. Stuff happens and then folks move on. The sky isn't falling and people often forget how small the online forum community really is. We enthusiasts here are a micro fraction of the buying public and most go on their merry way without ever reading the dire posts about limited failures on the internet...


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

system said:


> Actually, failures on release are very common. This is why many are against buying the first year of a redesigned vehicle or new engine offered by a vehicle manufacturer. Stuff happens and then folks move on. The sky isn't falling and people often forget how small the online forum community really is. We enthusiasts here are a micro fraction of the buying public and most go on their merry way without ever reading the dire posts about limited failures on the internet...


I suspect most are not buying a Kraken.
Yes, new products are often a little buggy but it also very often kills them if the bugs are bad enough.

A no start condition less than a year old followed by dealers taking forever to fix the problem and then causing cosmetic damage isn't a good sign.

Like I said, it's just my opinion and that's not worth much. I know that.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Well, the Kraken isn't the only EFI unit that uses that pump. It may be limited due to being the most expensive unit they make but the tech is shared. The dealer issue is completely separate. Mine fixed it quickly but the cosmetic part sucks. That has nothing to do with my model or that it has EFI though. Bottom line for me is that I just can't get worried about it. It was broken. It got fixed. Time to blow some snow. The book is closed for me unless the issue returns...


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

Today's project guys. New Polaris Sportsman 1000 S ATV. Only two trips on her and about 400 miles and this happens to the paint on the muffler cover... Maybe they source their exhaust from LCT? LOL...


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

I'm not sure I've ever had an ATV or dirtbike with a muffler cover.

I need to think about that for a while. I know my 1978 DS80 sure didn't have one because if your leg went in the wrong place you knew it.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I think this one is purely cosmetic but she wasn't so pretty after my last ride! Got it all wire brushed down and cleaned with alcohol. Now to spray with high temp paint and cross my fingers.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

system said:


> I think this one is purely cosmetic but she wasn't so pretty after my last ride! Got it all wire brushed down and cleaned with alcohol. Now to spray with high temp paint and cross my fingers.


If that's aluminum you're going to want to get it nice and clean and use an aluminum primer on it. The aluminum primer etches through the aluminum oxide skin that forms almost immediately from air and won't allow paint to stick. Welding aluminum has a similar issue.

I've used even Rustoleum's aluminum primer with good results.


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## GeorgePowell (Mar 17, 2019)

Oneacer said:


> I wonder how many years they tested this electronic fuel injection system on these snowblowers in the real-world application before they mass produced them.


Not long enough it seems. Also are they taking apart the failed parts and trying to improve them or just sending out the rest of what was on the shelf


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## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

GeorgePowell said:


> Not long enough it seems. Also are they taking apart the failed parts and trying to improve them or just sending out the rest of what was on the shelf


depends on manufacturers. Toyota Tundra (2022 redesign) had early turbo wastegate failures. Culprit was a bad batch of parts, quickly rectified.

nissan had CVT failures and continue to use the faulty CVT’s in their cars. Despite several successful class action lawsuits against Nissan.

things happen. What’s most important (to me) is how does the company deal with the issue.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Nan_wpg said:


> depends on manufacturers. Toyota Tundra (2022 redesign) had early turbo wastegate failures. Culprit was a bad batch of parts, quickly rectified.
> 
> nissan had CVT failures and continue to use the faulty CVT’s in their cars. Despite several successful class action lawsuits against Nissan.
> 
> things happen. What’s most important (to me) is how does the company deal with the issue.


Exactly! And with offshore parts manufacturers having proven track records of changing/cheapening parts with no knowledge of the purchaser, this will happen more often . . . . Even if the design and initial parts are 100% perfect, defects/changes/etc. can still sneak in through the supply chain, and the ability and willingness of the overall product manufacturer to deal with these issues is key!


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## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

I’m just a nobody, but I feel that Ariens is a solid company.

EFI is simple, and imo mostly fuel pump failures hopefully due to a bad batch. I still went carb. If the initial purchase price was the same, and the replacement parts were a tad cheaper I’d have considered EFI.

but I’m old, and I like old school simple, and bells and whistles can be economic time bombs.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

The sky is most certainly not falling... Got my replacement tank from the dealer today along with a return label for the old one. Not sure when I'll get to the swap. Not really wanting to fight with a full tank.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

system said:


> The sky is most certainly not falling... Got my replacement tank from the dealer today along with a return label for the old one. Not sure when I'll get to the swap. Not really wanting to fight with a full tank.


Well, you could pump it out or drain it... anyhow glad you're getting it sorted out.


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## system (Feb 8, 2021)

I'll prob just run it down and change it in the spring when I do my first oil change...


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