# still no spark



## amcsnow (Oct 14, 2013)

my Ariens snow blower with a 70's hm80 on it was not sparking but if i held the plug boot i could feel a very weak spark. i replaced the points and condenser and adjusted properly but after putting everything back together i still had no spark.i suspected a short somewhere so i started checking everything for continuity with a multimeter. i found that the nut that is on the outside of the points cover where the condenser and the kill switch connects to is being grounded to the motor. i dont know all that much about these engines but that seems like a problem to me. i disconnected the wire that goes to the kill switch and everything else looks good so i am totally stumped as to why it is still grounding out. any ideas on how i can solve this? thanks


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## Colored Eggs (Dec 7, 2012)

The Kill switch will ground to the motor which is normal. I'm not to familiar with points and condensers however...

1. Are any of the wires damaged. Especially near the flywheel as sometimes they get loose and rub. 
2. Is the spark plug boot(if it has one) corroded.
3. Does the engine run at all? 
4. Have you rechecked the points to make sure everything is still adjusted correctly. 
5. Is the flywheel magnets clean and free of rust. 
6. Do you have a spark tester?

the list is just a few things that came to my head as I was typing this.


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## amcsnow (Oct 14, 2013)

no it does not run, there is zero spark. i removed the kill switch wire so that is no longer a factor, the points are grounded out. the magnets/ magneto and the plug boot seem okay.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

I had a problem with genuine tecumseh points (made in china) they were grounding out.

I wrote up here somewhere what was going on. let me see if I can find it.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I bet it comes down to the points.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

here it was...

just an fyi, bought brand new tecumseh point set and put it in a 6 hp tec. everything set perfect and there you go right?...no spark

as it turns out where the stud goes through the insulator it was a bit lower and the points spring when put in properly was touching the mounting plate for the points grounding it out causing no spark.

solved that issue then.......still no spark

a little cursing and further examination.

The flat steel spring that holds the arm/points against the crank eccentric did not have the same bend so when i set the points at .020 at wide open they stayed there through the whole revolution of the crank....they never moved. re-bent the spring and now we have life.

man what a fiasco.


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## amcsnow (Oct 14, 2013)

you guys think i should just clean up the old points and put them back in? they didnt look that bad.


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## Colored Eggs (Dec 7, 2012)

Probably wouldn't hurt to try the old ones. I read somewhere where the coil can also go but I'm not sure how to test the coil.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

amcsnow said:


> you guys think i should just clean up the old points and put them back in? they didnt look that bad.


I'd try the old points. Like colored eggs said, the coil can go bad but personally I've never seen it happen. Has always been another problem.
Be sure to double check your work. Make sure the points are opening and closing on rotation. *something else! Double check your flywheel key!* If it has the very slightest damage to it you *must* replace it. That key, if damaged, will make it appear to not have spark.


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

Nice job rooting out that problem with the new points.


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## Brucebotti (Feb 10, 2013)

This is a long shot, but many years ago I had a problem with a new set of points. There was a protective coating on the points and I needed to file / sand it off to get them to work. This was an automotive set of points, but the principles are the same.
Bruce


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## amcsnow (Oct 14, 2013)

well i cleaned up the old points and put them back in. they are not grounding out luckily but after doing some more checking i found that the wire that connects the coil to the points is grounded to the engine. the wire itself looks fine and intact so does this mean my coil is gone?


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I don't want to keep going with this but did you double check your flywheel key? It takes the least bit to stop an engine.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

I have a bunch of fine running engines in the garage. I will test the wire/coil/condenser tomorrow


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## amcsnow (Oct 14, 2013)

the key looks totally fine to me and thanks td5771


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## Mr Fixit (Nov 19, 2013)

*Ignition coil*

Ignition systems have two electrical circuit involved. The high side of the coil is looking for ground or the spark plug anode to ground. The other circuit involves points and condenser/capacitor then the primary of the coil.
Do the steps he did. 
Here is a video to test your coils and ignition using your half inch drill. Shut off your gas to the carb. Watch this ignition test. *That* is good spark.





Pre 1982? Change to electronic ignition. Points get thrown out. Way better spark at the lowest rotation speed. Equals better cold starts! You can find used after 1982 coils. Used worth $50.


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## Curtis Larson (Dec 31, 2019)

On HM80 on snowblower. Every thing worked great yesterday. This morning, absolutely no spark at the plug with spark tester. I disconnected the single wire to the ignition switch (uses the plastic key). Still no spark, electric stater cranks and cranks. What’s my problem? I got snow to blow here in Wisconsin!!


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

*I WATCHED THAT VIDEO ........... DOING WHAT IS SHOWN WILL PUT YOUR HIGH VOLTAGE COIL IN DANGER!!!!

NOT RECOMMENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*
IF you want to test for spark similar to the test shown in the video, a better way is to connect the plug wire to a SPARK PLUG and MAKE SURE the body of the plug is ALWAYS bonded to the engine metal. The spark plug limits how high the the voltage can soar protecting the spark coil.

THE REASON: 

Magneto style ignitions will develop very high voltages if not checked/prevented from surging so high that the coil/transformer's interior insulation is shorted. It only takes a short in ONE INTERNAL WIRE to kill that coil!!! Coils used in cars are usually oil impregnated but in any case, better manufactured than the stuff used in small engines.

V = L(di/dt) for those of your familiar with math. L is the inductance of the coil. Notice that as 't' approaches '0' with any 'i' (current) the voltage soars to infinity.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Curtis Larson said:


> On HM80 on snowblower. Every thing worked great yesterday. This morning, absolutely no spark at the plug with spark tester. I disconnected the single wire to the ignition switch (uses the plastic key). Still no spark, electric stater cranks and cranks. What’s my problem? I got snow to blow here in Wisconsin!!


I have had the on/off switch short out several times. Try removing the wires from it see if that helps


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## Curtis Larson (Dec 31, 2019)

My error, I had REVERSED the throttle mount sometime ago because it was all cracked up, so when I thought I had it wide open, I actually had it on the shutdown position. Therefore no spark! Duh! Sorry for false alarm.


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