# Auger/Impeller disengagement problem



## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

New 2021 ST30 DLE

I just purchased this machine late this fall. It works perfectly but for one problem:

When I release the auger/impeller clutch, the auger and impeller continue to run, although at a lower speed, though enough to chuff out some snow.

The dealer has suggested that I return it to their shop to have it serviced, but I have difficulty getting the unit to my dealer for service, since it is a long ways away and I do not have a truck to transport it. The dealer kindly sent someone down to inspect my unit with a view to adjusting the drivetrain for the auger/impeller, but he could find no fault with the mechanism whatsoever, though in retrospect (see below about running cold vs. warm) we should have experimented with running it for some time while working.

I notice that the auger/impeller does not run with the clutch disengaged when the unit is cold, but once I have worked it up and down my long driveway couple of times, the auger/impeller does continue to run when the clutch is disengaged.

The dealer called me and asked me to remove the shroud, and check to see if I can back off the pulley that pushes on the serpentine, but the pulley is already backed off as far as it can go in the adjustment slot provided.

I have put maybe 6 to 10 hours on the machine, and I notice now that when I release the clutch the auger/impeller tends to run for about 30 seconds or so (it used to run without ever shutting down), and then finally shuts off.

I would definitely like to have it shut off immediately as it should, since I find it a safety hazard, and I am concerned that perhaps since the belt is obviously continuing to rub against the pulley for a period of time that it may accelerate the wear on the drive belt.

Thanks for any help/suggestions!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

If it was me, I would run it a little, see if it wears in ...... belts can be stiff when new ... however, the brake should grab it.....


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Oneacer said:


> If it was me, I would run it a little, see if it wears in ...... belts can be stiff when new ... however, the brake should grab it.....


Thanks. I have been wondering about that, but that doesn't seem to correlate with my observation that the auger/impeller does not run with the clutch disengaged when it is cold, but does when it is warm. If the belt is a bit stiff, and will work better once it loosens up or becomes more flexible, then I should observe the problem with the clutch disengaged when the machine is cold, but not when it is warm. I observe the opposite.
Does that make any sense?


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## VaSnowfighter (Dec 20, 2021)

Is there an adjustment on the auger/ impeller brake? If so, it may need to be tweaked.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

VaSnowfighter said:


> Is there an adjustment on the auger/ impeller brake? If so, it may need to be tweaked.


Yeah - checked all that. Looks like everything is spec there and adjustment not required.
Thanks for the thought though! That's why I'm here!


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## GKK (Apr 29, 2021)

Does the auger spin immediately after starting the motor or does it only spin after it was engaged and then released?


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

GKK said:


> Does the auger spin immediately after starting the motor or does it only spin after it was engaged and then released?


It is fine when cold. I can engage/disengage with no problems. Then after a couple hundred yards of work, when I release/disengage the clutch, then the auger/impeller doesn't stop. So yes - after warming up it only spins after having been engaged, and then is disengaged.


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## Bricklayer (Dec 29, 2020)

The auger brake is applied automatically when lever is released, by a return spring.
Is it possible that the return spring is broken, or unhooked?
On my 28 sho, you can look on the right side of the housing, and there is a slot where the end of the brake arm protrudes out through the housing.
You can operate the auger lever, and watch the brake arm move up and down.
If the spring is broken, it will just stay at the bottom of housing, and not engage the belt.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

What model is a ST30 DLE, a Deluxe 30?

There are instructions on setting up the auger brake on page 22 in the owners manual and detailed instructions on replacement in the service manual.

If the brake is set up and functioning properly, the auger cannot continue to spin as the brake pad will prevent it. Is it possible moisture/snow is getting on the pad, reducing it's stopping power?


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Ziggy65 said:


> What model is a ST30 DLE, a Deluxe 30?
> 
> There are instructions on setting up the auger brake on page 22 in the owners manual and detailed instructions on replacement in the service manual.
> 
> If the brake is set up and functioning properly, the auger cannot continue to spin as the brake pad will prevent it. Is it possible moisture/snow is getting on the pad, reducing it's stopping power?


Thanks so much. Before I forget, the guy who came down from the dealership said that these machines do not have a service manual which I though was strange enough to be unbelievable. _Can you send me the link to where I can find the manual for mine_, which yes, is a Deluxe 30.

Thanks for the two manuals - of course I do have the owner manual and will have a look at all this once I can get it into my garage and tip it up. _BTW, should I have to empty the fuel tank before tipping it up to the service position?_

I had wondered about the snow/ice build up idea, but pretty much dismissed it out of hand with the thought that that would have to be the dumbest of design flaws - to have snow/ice impairing function of a snowthrower. But one never knows. A way to check that would be to allow everything to warm up -engine and auger both but not actually work it in snow, and see what happens.

I'll let you know of my findings.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Bricklayer said:


> The auger brake is applied automatically when lever is released, by a return spring.
> Is it possible that the return spring is broken, or unhooked?
> On my 28 sho, you can look on the right side of the housing, and there is a slot where the end of the brake arm protrudes out through the housing.
> You can operate the auger lever, and watch the brake arm move up and down.
> If the spring is broken, it will just stay at the bottom of housing, and not engage the belt.


Thanks!! Good thought, though it would seem odd to have it broken or unhooked right out of the showroom, but I will definitely check, and let you know!


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

DiverDoc said:


> Thanks so much. Before I forget, the guy who came down from the dealership said that these machines do not have a service manual which I though was strange enough to be unbelievable. _Can you send me the link to where I can find the manual for mine_, which yes, is a Deluxe 30.
> 
> Thanks for the two manuals - of course I do have the owner manual and will have a look at all this once I can get it into my garage and tip it up. _BTW, should I have to empty the fuel tank before tipping it up to the service position?_
> 
> ...


I attached the service manual for your machine in my previous post.
The fuel tank will need to be drained to less than half full.
I doubt the issue is moisture getting on the brake, never heard of that before, but anything is possible. However, it is more likely not set up correctly or as mentioned the spring is off or broken.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Ziggy65 said:


> I attached the service manual for your machine in my previous post.
> The fuel tank will need to be drained to less than half full.
> I doubt the issue is moisture getting on the brake, never heard of that before, but anything is possible. However, it is more likely not set up correctly or as mentioned the spring is off or broken.


Yeah - thanks. It was for the 28 not the 30, but I suspect that they are identical. Thanks so much for those! We are supposed to get 6 cm of snow today, so I should be down to less than half by the time I am done with that tomorrow. As mentioned, I will update you. I really appreciate your interest and assistance!


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

BTW - I have been using the word pulley in my conversation, but clearly the correct term is *idler.* I wouldn't blame any of you for abandoning me because of my incompetence at this point! Like Dr. "Bones" McCoy would have said in Star Trek, "I'm a doctor Jim - not a mechanic!! "


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

So it is my experience that as the belts heat up during initial use they do grab better. Looking to see that the idler pulley is as far away from the belts in the adjustment slot is a good check. Now the pivot arm that the idler pulley is on has the brake attached to the opposite side so as the pulley goes in to engage the belts it pulls the brake away and vice versa when the clutch is released. When the clutch is released the idler arm should be just barely touching the frame of the machine. If it's away from the frame at all that means the break is away from the pulley when disengaged leaving the belts the ability to grab a little bit when warm. That pivot arm can be adjusted by loosening the jam nut and turning the cable at the bottom of the auger clutch right as it connects at the back of the unit. Not saying this will definitely solve your issue but it's worth checking into.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

JJG723 said:


> So it is my experience that as the belts heat up during initial use they do grab better. Looking to see that the idler pulley is as far away from the belts in the adjustment slot is a good check. Now the pivot arm that the idler pulley is on has the brake attached to the opposite side so as the pulley goes in to engage the belts it pulls the brake away and vice versa when the clutch is released. When the clutch is released the idler arm should be just barely touching the frame of the machine. If it's away from the frame at all that means the break is away from the pulley when disengaged leaving the belts the ability to grab a little bit when warm. That pivot arm can be adjusted by loosening the jam nut and turning the cable at the bottom of the auger clutch right as it connects at the back of the unit. Not saying this will definitely solve your issue but it's worth checking into.
> View attachment 185895


Yep. Checked all that again this AM. Idler pulley is all the way back in the adjustment slot and idler arm just taps the frame when disengaged. I noticed a fair bit of black rubber dust collecting in that area under the shroud. Probably normal since everything is new.
Thanks for the suggestion!


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## Bricklayer (Dec 29, 2020)

If return spring for brake arm is present, and not broken, I dont see how it could not stop the auger belt, unless idler pulley has too much tension, which you say it doesnt.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Bricklayer said:


> If return spring for brake arm is present, and not broken, I dont see how it could not stop the auger belt, unless idler pulley has too much tension, which you say it doesnt.


I have to get the unit tipped up into the service position to inspect that spring, and will do it after I get the fuel tank empty tomorrow by clearing my driveway.  I’ll get back to you once I am able to inspect it.


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## Bricklayer (Dec 29, 2020)

I still think you can see the end of the brake arm, sticking out of a slot, on the right side of the housing, looking from operator position. It will move up and down as you engage and release the lever, IF the spring is intact. If spring is not intact, it will just lay in the bottom of the slot regardless of what you do. No need to flip it up, or anything. Basically an inspection window.


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## Bricklayer (Dec 29, 2020)

The spring on my 28sho broke, after about 20 hours of use. While I was replacing it, I noticed the bolt that holds the auger pulley to impeller shaft, was partially backed out also. I removed the bolt and applied blue loctite, and reinstalled.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Bricklayer said:


> I still think you can see the end of the brake arm, sticking out of a slot, on the right side of the housing, looking from operator position. It will move up and down as you engage and release the lever, IF the spring is intact. If spring is not intact, it will just lay in the bottom of the slot regardless of what you do. No need to flip it up, or anything. Basically an inspection window.


Yep. I have checked that several times and it works fine, including watching it with the shroud off while I alternately engaged and disengaged the clutch. Seems to work perfectly. Great thanks. Saves a lot of trouble then.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Bricklayer said:


> The spring on my 28sho broke, after about 20 hours of use. While I was replacing it, I noticed the bolt that holds the auger pulley to impeller shaft, was partially backed out also. I removed the bolt and applied blue loctite, and reinstalled.


Hmmm. I’ll have to keep a watch on that. Thanks. 👍🤞


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## Bricklayer (Dec 29, 2020)

DiverDoc said:


> Yep. I have checked that several times and it works fine, including watching it with the shroud off while I alternately engaged and disengaged the clutch. Seems to work perfectly. Great thanks. Saves a lot of trouble then.


Man. Im sorry. I have no other ideas. Please keep this updated, when you do get it figured out!


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Bricklayer said:


> Man. Im sorry. I have no other ideas. Please keep this updated, when you do get it figured out!


Ha! I know! Everyone has been so helpful here! I will definitely keep this up to date as things go along.  Thanks again.


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## Badger9402 (Mar 3, 2019)

For what it is worth, my new Ariens did the same thing after a couple of uses. I tried every fix as mentioned, and read as much as I could. I finally broke down and took it back to the dealer. They didn't have it in the shop 15 minutes and was bringing it back out to me. I wanted to see what they did, but it was in the middle of covid, so I could not go into the shop and watch. They told me it was an adjustment. Very frustrating since I would have liked to have fixex it myself. I wish you luck with yours.


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

How about a few pics with the belt guard removed?
May be something not obvious to you that is apparent to someone.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Badger9402 said:


> For what it is worth, my new Ariens did the same thing after a couple of uses. I tried every fix as mentioned, and read as much as I could. I finally broke down and took it back to the dealer. They didn't have it in the shop 15 minutes and was bringing it back out to me. I wanted to see what they did, but it was in the middle of covid, so I could not go into the shop and watch. They told me it was an adjustment. Very frustrating since I would have liked to have fixex it myself. I wish you luck with yours.


Oh, my gosh! So frustrating to not find out what the diagnosis was! Thanks for the note.


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

oneboltshort said:


> How about a few pics with the belt guard removed?
> May be something not obvious to you that is apparent to someone.


Sure! I’ll do that! I won’t be using it on the driveway this AM as planned. It is -27 with a brisk wind, so -47 with wind chill! BBRRRR!


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Well I ran my machine clearing snow for about an hour this afternoon and only at the very end, when I went to shut it down did the auger turn uninvited, and then only for about 30 seconds. Every other time it stopped immediately. Maybe just 'cause it was so friggin' cold. We'll see!


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

DiverDoc said:


> Well I ran my machine clearing snow for about an hour this afternoon and only at the very end, when I went to shut it down did the auger turn uninvited, and then only for about 30 seconds. Every other time it stopped immediately. Maybe just 'cause it was so friggin' cold. We'll see!


It seems you have something binding slightly intermittently You must have the brake spring installed on the right side frame otherwise the brake would never work. Either the brake roller is sticky, the idler/arm itself is sticking, or the brake band is installed incorrectly (over tightened from factory) and pinched at the pivot point (green area).
These are all easily checked without any dealer interference
I have seen the entire idler arm bent toward the bucket and the idler pulley itself rubbing on the bucket. It just needed to be bent back toward the engine with a sandwich clamp.
If you pull the cover and manually push down and release the brake band near the idler roller it should freely do so, if not it's likely pinched from being too tight.
30 seconds running auger can eat a lot of dog


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Thank you so much for this great analysis. I am going to consider this seriously, and take some definitive action one way or the other.


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## enigma-2 (Feb 11, 2014)

Wonder if the correct belt was installed? Check to belt number on the machine vs. the one listed in the manual. (Eliminate the obvious).


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

Good idea!


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## DiverDoc (Jan 2, 2022)

UPDATE:
Getting my snowthrower back from dealer service department this morning!
Service Mgr. said that the pulley alignments were all cockeyed.
He said they replaced the idler pulley and both belts. He said that one of the belts was so misaligned that when it was running, that it was actually twisting and turning. I must say I did not actually observe the mechanism running with the shroud off, so I did not observe this behaviour.
Anyway, I thank you all so very much for your kind and thoughtful input into my problem.
We will see if it is actually fixed or not after the next dump of snow!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Glad you got it sorted .... Many times, it is not just one thing wrong, but multiple things wrong simultaneously, that cause an issue.


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