# Chute tip loss of motion.



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I was just going over my HSS928A, removed the chute and greased the base and chute gears. When I put things back together the chute rotation worked fine but the tip up/down deflection was randomly intermittent to not working at all. Since I had it apart, I immediately assumed the fault was mine. After many checks it turns out that the engine was not running at full speed and the charging system was not producing enough voltage to run the tip motor. 
I should have come to this conclusion sooner as my brothers HSS928s chute tip motor would not work last winter when the battery had failed and was removed. We replaced his battery greased up the gears and he is back in good working order.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

you have the old chute also I believe.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

It was brand new in 2016


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

The battery was sitting at 12.65V which is a bit low, so I placed the battery charger on it. A full charge should help.


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## Mick_Mach (Oct 11, 2021)

I'd recommend investing in some rust check in the green can. Spray it on any rusty looking metal. Your wheels could use some I notice. Rust check also works great as a lubricant. I spray it on my machine as needed throughout the winter and also when stored. Keeps it looking brand new.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

I recommend buying a battery tender.
Keep the batteries charged when not using.
I have 2, I use them on my riding lawnmower, boat batteries (2), I have a car and pickup truck so I charge the pickup truck as I use the car more. I also have a spare battery for that I keep charged in my garage. I alternate them in the truck. I had to buy a battery away from home once when my alternator went. So I have 2. Better for the battery to keep them trickle charged. Especially if they sit for a while.
I keep my battery snow shovel charged, I charge my flashlight batteries also. I have a charged flashlight in about every room in my house if the electric goes out.
In emergency, my propane generator will charge my battery's too.
I am ready!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

My tractor goes on a tender when I park it in the winter .... Cheap HF one,, works great


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Honda (and I) recommend the OptiMate charger/maintainers. I have 1/2 dozen of them and have not had to replace a battery since I've been using them.








OptiMate 4 Dual Program - OptiMate


The OptiMate 4 Dual Program is the most energy efficient ‘1 Amp’ charger for high performance vehicles in the world! Shop now on our website!




optimate1.com


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I use the Dewalt DXAEC80CA charger. It works great and keeps a float charge going when the battery is charged. The only drawback is that I can't use it as a bench top power supply. The charger is smart enough that it has to see a battery attached to it before it will start charging.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Mick_Mach said:


> I'd recommend investing in some rust check in the green can. Spray it on any rusty looking metal. Your wheels could use some I notice. Rust check also works great as a lubricant. I spray it on my machine as needed throughout the winter and also when stored. Keeps it looking brand new.


Good point. Done!!


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## sma12 (Feb 21, 2019)

Toon said:


> I was just going over my HSS928A, removed the chute and greased the base and chute gears. When I put things back together the chute rotation worked fine but the tip up/down deflection was randomly intermittent to not working at all. Since I had it apart, I immediately assumed the fault was mine. After many checks it turns out that the engine was not running at full speed and the charging system was not producing enough voltage to run the tip motor.
> I should have come to this conclusion sooner as my brothers HSS928s chute tip motor would not work last winter when the battery had failed and was removed. We replaced his battery greased up the gears and he is back in good working order.
> View attachment 181897





Toon said:


> I was just going over my HSS928A, removed the chute and greased the base and chute gears. When I put things back together the chute rotation worked fine but the tip up/down deflection was randomly intermittent to not working at all. Since I had it apart, I immediately assumed the fault was mine. After many checks it turns out that the engine was not running at full speed and the charging system was not producing enough voltage to run the tip motor.
> I should have come to this conclusion sooner as my brothers HSS928s chute tip motor would not work last winter when the battery had failed and was removed. We replaced his battery greased up the gears and he is back in good working order.
> View attachment 181897


I have the exact same problem with the same year or a 2017. It's definitely related to the battery life and necessary voltage for the chute motors. Many thanks for our post and this forum. By the way The chute upgrade is well worth it. The machine clogs a lot less. Also a rejet for your altitude and upping max running RPMs helps the performance of this machine significantly. Many thanks for the post and Thank you again.


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## Breckcapt (Jan 4, 2017)

Chute issues: when I put the 1332 out of service this past spring, I took the battery off and put it on the Optimate 4 in my garage. After draining the fuel as well, I realized I left the spring for the tip under tension/compression and I was worried if left that way for six months it would lose its effectiveness. Put her back in operation yesterday, started within 3-4 seconds on first shot and the action on the chute tip was just fine.


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## Spyle (Oct 24, 2017)

Well, as for the battery, what I do is very simple and works just fine: When I put the blower for storage in the spring, after I'm done with all the necessary adjustments, greasing, oil change etc..., I simply remove the battery from the blower, put it in my basement on a dry surface and once every 3 months or so, I use my NOCO Genius battery charger/Maintainer until full charge, then unplug the charger/Maintener from the battery, and put the battery on a dry surface once again up until 3 more months have past, then I put it back into charging until full. When I first start the blower for the upcoming winter, the battery is fully charged and I am good until it's time for storage again. Easy peasy...😁


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## Breckcapt (Jan 4, 2017)

Spyle said:


> Well, as for the battery, what I do is very simple and works just fine: When I put the blower for storage in the spring, after I'm done with all the necessary adjustments, greasing, oil change etc..., I simply remove the battery from the blower, put it in my basement on a dry surface and once every 3 months or so, I use my NOCO Genius battery charger/Maintainer until full charge, then unplug the charger/Maintener from the battery, and put the battery on a dry surface once again up until 3 more months have past, then I put it back into charging until full. When I first start the blower for the upcoming winter, the battery is fully charged and I am good until it's time for storage again. Easy peasy...😁


I guess what works for ya is cool. I followed the advice of Tabora, not necessarily to remove the battery for off season, but to keep it on a trickle charge year round. If I see we’re not gonna get a lot of snow for ten days or so, now that it’s in service again, I’ll put the Optimate 4 on it. I have the pigtail permanently attached to the battery so all I have to do is connect the charger to it. In May, when it goes out of service I’ll remove the battery and put it back in the garage on top of my Craftsmen tool box that has a power strip and do what I did this year. ✌🏼


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

_The battery was sitting at 12.65V which is a bit low, so I placed the battery charger on it. A full charge should help. _

That voltage is spot on for a battery that has sat for a bit. I have not looked at Honda charge but 14-14.5 is commong. It is over voltage to get the batt chemistry to hold 12.5 or so when its standing for a while.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

Not sure if the issue has been rectified as the thread is a bit old but 9/10 times any loss of rotation and chute deflector position control is due to the contacts inside the joystick developing oxidation/carbon on them, here is what the insides look like. 

You'd need to take off the joystick, open it up, take out the circuit from within, take off the caps from the contacts (make sure to be careful as there are some springs inside that may come flying out), clean the floating contact and soldered in contacts, put it all back together.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

RC20 said:


> _The battery was sitting at 12.65V which is a bit low, so I placed the battery charger on it. A full charge should help. _
> 
> That voltage is spot on for a battery that has sat for a bit. I have not looked at Honda charge but 14-14.5 is common. It is over voltage to get the batt chemistry to hold 12.5 or so when its standing for a while.


 I agree 12.65 is a good at rest battery voltage reading, but the Honda owners manual indicates the battery should be charged if the voltage is below 12.9 Volts. 
On my machine at least I would go with "charge if the battery is below 12.5 Volts". After the above charge the battery settled right back at the 12.65 Volts I had started with.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

JnC said:


> Not sure if the issue has been rectified as the thread is a bit old but 9/10 times any loss of rotation and chute deflector position control is due to the contacts inside the joystick developing oxidation/carbon on them, here is what the insides look like.
> 
> You'd need to take off the joystick, open it up, take out the circuit from within, take off the caps from the contacts (make sure to be careful as there are some springs inside that may come flying out), clean the floating contact and soldered in contacts, put it all back together.


 The root cause of this particular chute tip loss of motion, was that my snow blower was not running at full RPM. At lower RPMs the charging coil does not produce enough voltage to run the chute tip motor. Once I increased the motor speed to 3600 RPMs the chute tip motor worked perfectly.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Just in the way of discussion (I would have to do some testing and right now its too danged cold) but a charging system should put out the needed voltage well below MAX. You may have a charging system issue. Get a low cost digital meter and fir your machine up, see what it does idle, some throttle, mid throttle, full throttle. 

12.9 is too high to expect from a standing voltage. 12.5 to 12.7 is normal. 

I would not bother a charge unless it hit 12 volts. That is with a caveat, that means it holds up when cranking. You can have a surface charge that looks good but fails with a load. Watching the battery voltage while cranking can tell you a lot. 

As I recall 9.5 volts was acceptable in a full crank situation. 

When it warms up I will do some testing and post results. My blower runs the chute fine at idle. 

You could have a low charging system, you chute could be sticky (the chute does move faster at higher speeds so its a voltge related aspect)


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## sledman8002002 (Jan 20, 2021)

RC20 said:


> 12.9 is too high to expect from a standing voltage. 12.5 to 12.7 is normal


I agree. I didnt see any reference in your postings, but have you done a volt meter test while running at differing RPM's to check charging level?
These 2 pics (as an example) are from my ATV this past summer, first at rest, 2nd while idling. (I ended up replacing battery as it was failing at 7 years old)


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I did a couple of voltage readings recently and found 12.69 Volts DC at rest and 12.86 Volts DC a full RPM. What I didn't do was check the voltage drop when motors are under load. Does anyone have the specifications for these chute motors such as voltage requirements and current draw? Also my model HSS928ACTD has the two hinged chute which may or may not require a little more force to actuate.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Toon said:


> Does anyone have the specifications for these chute motors such as voltage requirements and current draw?


Here are the specs I have for the HSS928/1332 coils:


https://www.snowblowerforum.com/attachments/coils-specs-txt.172623/



And the wiring diagram:


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Thanks Tabora
I'm in the process of modifying my chute sheet metal. When I get it back together and before I put the covers back on, I'll see if I can get some in situation readings if I can sneak into the connectors.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I am going to get my meters out, 12 v at 3000 rpm on half wave rectification is not going to boost a battery up to what it needs for a full charge, 3600 rpm is not going to add a lot I don't thin. That may be why Honda wants a trickle charger on it. I may get the Digital Scope meter out and look at the wave forms (once its warmer). 

Your Chute drive rectifier may have a bad diode in it.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Did a little testing today and these are my findings:
The chute motors and battery charging are converted to DC volts. The work lamp is supplied AC volts and the charging circuit and the chute motors each have a separate regulator/rectifier. (From Tabora)

The rectifier output for the chute motors is 14.53 VDC at Idle and 25.75 VDC at Full motor RPM. Unloaded. This reading was taken at the chute left/right motor plug location.
I tried to get an AC component reading, but my meter jumped all over the place and wouldn't settle.

Observed behavior:

The chute turns Right but not left at Idle.

The chute turns Right and Left at Mid throttle.

The chute turns Right and Left at Full throttle.

The chute tip goes Up but not Down at Idle.

The chute tip goes Up but not Down at Mid throttle.

The chute tip goes Up and Down at full throttle.

All of the above tests were done at 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

This would indicate that the Tip Down is the largest load for the supplied voltage.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Toon said:


> Observed behavior


Also, it may be that there's a bit of corrosion on the switch contacts that's impacting the amperage / voltage flow. Many have taken the motor connectors and switch assembly apart and cleaned them with CRC Electronic Cleaner (or similar) to restore full function.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

RC20 said:


> I am going to get my meters out, 12 v at 3000 rpm on half wave rectification is not going to boost a battery up to what it needs for a full charge, 3600 rpm is not going to add a lot I don't thin. That may be why Honda wants a trickle charger on it. I may get the Digital Scope meter out and look at the wave forms (once its warmer).
> 
> Your Chute drive rectifier may have a bad diode in it.


Did a test today on the rectifier and it looks OK.








Chute motor rectifier/regulator.








VDC Readings using the diode check scale on my meter. I penciled in the diodes as I believe they are connected.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

tabora said:


> Also, it may be that there's a bit of corrosion on the switch contacts that's impacting the amperage / voltage flow. Many have taken the motor connectors and switch assembly apart and cleaned them with CRC Electronic Cleaner (or similar) to restore full function.


Took the joystick apart today and cleaned the contacts.















Joystick removed. Back of joystick removed.








Notice the spring emerging from switch 1 as the cover is being removed. Be careful not to lose them. I spent 15 minutes looking for one on the floor that flew out while I was trying to reassemble the switch and it sprang away.















Fixed contacts in the left picture and the moving contact in the bottom of the right picture. I used a small piece of Scott towel to clean the stationary contacts and the eraser of the pencil for the moving contact. You can see the carbon on the eraser. I cleaned and reassembled the switches and reinstalled the joystick back into the blower. The repair helped but I think this might only be a short term solution as the contacts are not of very high quality. I will see once I start to use it a bit more. It's also a good idea to place something like a Scott towel on the bench to stop the springs from rolling off of the edge.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Per Tobora I had not looked at there was multiple coils involved in the machine. Interesting the voltage difference high and low. VDC meter reading would not show if one diode was gone but if you checked them as you did, that confirms the rectification end is ok. Pretty rare for a diode to go. 

Harder to get to than the charge circuit, will wait till I get warmer weather to try the scope meter and see what it looks like wave form wise. 

Bit of a nit pick but the impediment of contact would be current flow vs voltage. Voltage drop only if current is impeded.


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## Letit Snow (Nov 25, 2018)

As a tip when i work on something with small parts i do it in a cardboard box with about 6 inch sides. It has saved me from losing small parts many times.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I tend to a towel but life's lessons in containing things (and more than one flingy thingy lost)


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I cleaned the contacts on the joystick and it helped marginally with the left and down functions of the chute motors. Right and Up work OK even at Idle. Everything worked fine at full throttle of the engine.
At idle the rectifier output on the snow blower will produce 14.53 VDC
At mid throttle the rectifier output on the snow blower is 20 VDC.
At full throttle the rectifier output on the snow blower is 25.75 VDC.
Well my 0-30VDC power supply arrived today so I did a few tests and the results indicated that even with the cleaned contacts in the joystick and a good DC source of power the chute motors required 18 VDC to function properly.
The chute motor axis at 18VDC used 45 Watts for left, 45 watts for right, 33 watts for up and 58 watts for down.
The chute motor axis at 24 VDC used 65 watts for left, 65 watts for right, 46 watts for up and 77 watts for down.
The chute motors did move the chute faster at 24 VDC than they do at 18 VDC.
All that said I believe I still have an issue with the joystick.
I have a new joystick ordered and when it arrives I will repeat this test and see how much of an improvement I get.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

The joystick arrived on Thursday so I spent Friday playing around with and testing this device and here are my findings.
1. The new part number 35360-V45-A02 although a different number from the original (35360-V45-A01) and $12 more expensive look to me, to be the same joystick.
2. The new joystick functions perfectly at idle and I have full control of the chute in all directions.
3. There is no measurable difference in the resistance readings of the contacts new Vs old joystick.
4. The Honda shop manual shows the joystick plug pin out, incorrectly.








This is the correct pin out for the joysticks I have here.

5. A joysticks performance can be improved by cleaning the contacts but I could not get mine back to full function at low RPM.
6. At mid to full throttle the old joystick worked fine. If you take yours apart these pictures show which switch does which axis.








Top view of circuit board.









Bottom view.

7. At about $100 Canadian by the time it got to my house, I'm not sure I would spring for a new one again. I would clean the contacts and run the engine at a higher RPM. which I do anyways. I was hoping the new joystick part number indicated an improved design (higher current rating on the switches) but they look the same.

For now I'm back in business and at full functionality.


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## STEPNOUT (12 mo ago)

@Toon 
I know this is an older post but knowing about these issues if and before they might happen is a good thing. I would like to know if you looked at the solder points where the switches are mounted to the board. More than once cracked solder joints have caused this type of issue. If you could look at the older switch in a bright light and use a magnifying glass to see if there are any cracks in the solder. I would just on speculation hit all the solder joints with an iron an a small bit of solder.
I’ve repaired the daytime running lights in my wife’s care by repairing cracks in the solder connections on the board
Please let us know if you find any cracks.
Thank you.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

STEPNOUT said:


> @Toon
> I know this is an older post but knowing about these issues if and before they might happen is a good thing. I would like to know if you looked at the solder points where the switches are mounted to the board. More than once cracked solder joints have caused this type of issue. If you could look at the older switch in a bright light and use a magnifying glass to see if there are any cracks in the solder. I would just on speculation hit all the solder joints with an iron an a small bit of solder.
> I’ve repaired the daytime running lights in my wife’s care by repairing cracks in the solder connections on the board
> Please let us know if you find any cracks.
> Thank you.


Hello Stepnout
I did a close look at the solder joints with a jewelers loop and they looked OK. 
I think the issue is that the contacts inside of the switches get pitted and introduce enough resistance to current flow, that it causes this issue.









Pitting in the switch body.








Pitting of the movable contact.
Cleaning the contacts helps but doesn't solve the issue.
I suppose you could try polishing the contacts with a buffing tip on a Dremel tool and then coat the polished contacts with something like Cool Amp to aid conduction, but I think increasing the engine RPMs is much easier.


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