# To fix(again), or to replace?



## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

Greetings SBF community! Lots of great information here, as well as the partner sites for warmer weather yard care...my wife won't like what I have found..lol

Anyway...here's my situation. I have an older Craftsman 24" snowblower, maybe from 2005-2007 time.. It's served me well, but over the last 5 years I may have put more time and money into repairs than I spent buying the machine. I believe we only paid about $700 back then.

The issue now is, the center impeller sheer pin has sheared, again. This is at least the 5th in 3 years. Replaceable? Yes, I've done it. But it's a total pain in the posterior, and I'm just getting sick of replacing it. Other parts have been replaced over the years as well, new chute, drive cables, belts, etc...overall, the engine feels fine, but everything else just seems to want to stick it to me.

I live in New England, so I could easily sell it, even as broken and still get maybe $150 out of it...

I'm considering a few options as a replacement. It will be used on a 4 car driveway, about 24' x 30'.

Looking at Cub Cadet, but not totally sold on the 3x...seems there are 50% negative on the 3x stage stuff.. But I do like my Cub riding mower.

Also considering Red Max DST27, Toro Power Max 27, or a Simplicity or B&S model. I'm thinking about 27-28" is all I would need, a few extra passes is fine, as opposed to getting much bigger for more money.

I need to make a decision soon, and get to a dealer to order one before next storm hits next weekend...unless they have something in stock, which is unlikely this time of year.

So what say you? How long would you keep repairing something like the impeller pin, or would just say it's time, and I got my money out of it, let someone else deal with it?

To note, I am very careful with what gets pulled in...no newspapers, sticks, rocks, etc...and I always clean it well before I store it, gets run 3x during summer with fresh fuel, etc...it's been babied as much as I can.

Repair, or replace?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to SBF RS182

Have you tried to figure out what it is that's causing the pin to break ? Is it always in the same area of the drive like the EOD pile or ... ?
If you can't figure out a way to change your style I'm not sure the machines you've mentioned will eliminate the pin problem. Always nice to have new but unless you go with something commercial and well built new might not solve your problem.

.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

toro is the better of them all, no shear pins,


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I would fix it....then sell it or use it for a spare.....find a pro series Simplicity....less then $400 in NE right now....or a good used Ariens...preferably a 924 series ( my favorite, LOL)....should be less repairs on either blower, but for the unexpected, you still have the old one.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

My suggestion is to replace the pin then get a new one when prices drop in 6 weeks. Feel free to show this post to you wife. Or wait to show her and let me know which model you decide on, then I'll modify my post to recommend it. I'm certain she'll be convinced.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Can you clarify the center impeller shear pin? Trying to understand what that is. Does it lock the impeller to the shaft? Or is it something in the auger gearbox? I assume you're using OEM shear pins?

Personally, I've had good luck with my Toro single stages, and the 721 is the continuation of a lineup they've had for a while. It would probably get my vote. 

Actually, though, do you mean the new for this year 721, like the link below? Those are a redesign. And I've seen a few comments about issues with the 821, I think. I haven't dug into them, but if this is for the new model, it doesn't yet have a lot of time on the market. My history might still bias me to the Toro, though. 

Ariens also has some single stage machines. 

https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/snow-blowers/power-clear-721-e-38753

PS: Tony P, with that sort of integrity, how could she NOT be convinced??


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## penna stogey (Nov 25, 2019)

Welcome to the SBF from Gettysburg....My vote is a Toro!


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

saw some club cadets at home depot for $1000 plus tax. wasn't very impressed.

3 stage? forgetaboutit

like other have mentioned Toro or Ariens .

craftsman? forgetaboutit. fix and sell


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## BlowerMods1 (Jan 11, 2020)

My next door neighbor would bring home 2 or 3 Toro's a year. Even had people drop them off at his home. I thought at the time "that's not good" They were SS though. On the good side he was always able to get them running and flip them. After seeing this I decided to avoid Toro's. He hangs on to three of them at any given time to use for parts / personal use. It takes all three to get him through a winter though. Not good.

:hellno:


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Without knowing their age & condition, I don't know that I'd want to assume that Toros must therefore be bad. They have plenty of happy users. If people are giving away a machine, it may just be beat up and worn out. And how you choose to repair a machine will also matter. Just enough to work, or really replacing the things that are worn, to get it back in good shape. 

I've been very happy with my Toro single-stages so far (electric and gas), and would welcome getting to try a 2-stage. 

My MTD 2-stage always got me through the winter, by itself. Not fancy, and not built super-rugged. But I'd replaced the worn/failed items when I bought it, then maintained it, and it gave me years of good service. I'd expect the Toros are better, and should be fine for a 1-blower setup (not needing a backup for the backup).


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## cdestuck (Jan 20, 2013)

Seems like you’re pretty fed up with the repairs and if it’s within your means I would really consider upgrading and having mind security in knowing you have a more fresh machine. 

I personally lean to the Toros and really like their quick stick shoot control. Works smoothly and quickly and for the rest of the machine I have had pretty good luck with the quality. I have had several Torros and before that a great simplicity. Go treat yourself


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

If you really believe you can get $150 for a broken 15-20 year old machine.... you should DO IT!. Take the $150 and put it toward a purchase for one that runs.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I vote for a new machine, it does not sound like the C Man has been that reliable. It took my Toro 24 years of hard use to start breaking down (when it did it was endless but that was 24 solid years) 

Certainly does not sound like you push a machine. 

If you are looking at the 3X though and then thinking single stage that is very contradictory (I don't think the 3X thingy is anything more than marketing that costs more but does not do more - it seems to work fine but no benefit) 


That said my neighbor has a Cub and he does two or three driveways and its held up well for 4 years now. 



Cub makes two stage machines though I am no sold on them for solid (NE choices my view would be Honda, Toro, Areiens) - Toro is probably the least costly and a good value for a job like you have. 


I've always needed a solid 2 stage, have used the single stage and ok for light stuff so if that is the norm and you don't mind shoveling if a rare heavy then its not a bad choice.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

RS182 said:


> How long would you keep repairing something like the impeller pin, or would just say it's time, and I got my money out of it, let someone else deal with it?


 Replacing a shear pin isn't repairing, it's just maintenance. Make sure you're using the right ones. You didn't give your model number, but I'm guessing you need a 1/4" x 1.5" and I'd recommend this style:


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

Thanks for the welcomes and replies!

I'll try to answer as many questions as I see..

For when/where..it could be any time. In this case, I just cleared most of my driveway, left it running by my truck, then back my truck out just get the last few passes. I went back to finish it off, and as I was moving it through snow, I noticed nothing was being discharged. That's when I noticed the main shaft was spinning, the center impeller was not. I knew right away what was wrong, as I said, this happens often.

The snow we got wasn't even that wet or heavy...it was great snowball snow, so when compacted it was pretty tight. But I had no issues at all using it prior, just seems like when I stopped to move my truck, it was jammed...and then when I pulled on the lever, it couldn't move and sheared the pin to protect the main gearbox, as designed.

Also to clarify, I used the term sheer pin. In fact, I believe it's called a roll pin. And being a hollow roll pin is one reason why it's a pain in the butt to replace, aside from just being very difficult to access.

And I definitely need a 2-stage...single stage is a joke up here. I see my neighbor use his single, and he goes about 2 feet, then has to stop, back up, and try again...

So for commercial line, would that be a brand like Simplicity? And that would be much better than a sub-brand of theirs like Briggs and Stratton? Budget wise I'm trying to stay under $1500, and I fully understand that may not get me the quality I really want...but I'm just at my wits end with this thing.

What gets me is that the night before, I soaked the inside of the housing with Ariens Snow Jet spray, which I've used in the past on both machine and shovels, and it certainly helped snow not stick...but this time, not so much...


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Many of us prefer the older machines, pre-1985. The top brands in my order - Yamaha if you can find them, Honda, Simplicity Pro line, then it's a throw up Toro, Ariens, Simplicity.


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

Roll pins are a pain, I had one fail after about thirty or forty years 450 feet from my house. A neighbor helped me throw in my truck to get it back to my garage. I replaced it with a gr 5 bolt, and its been good since. It was on the drive axel, so not much danger of not failing. Some of the roll pins are just more quicker and cheaper to manufacture stuff.
Sid


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

So I guess my conundrum is this.. Spend the "wife-approved" money, but of course, not too much...lol Or find a bolt that will be stronger and not break. The roll pin installed now is pretty small though, but I may be able to find something that would fit, and being solid versus hollow roll pin, I can't imagine it would break.

Of course, the downside is if something were to get very jammed, the machine could then take on more serious damage...

If I go with new, I am liking the Simplicity Pro 24"...the wife will not like that price though. I may have some bargaining to do...lol


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

So, that was quick fail..lol

Wife does NOT approve the Pro-line Simplicity models. She Googled and saw the list price, and even though I told her list price is generally higher than actual retail, she still said I'm crazy to spend that much.

So down to 2 questions...and fairly certain I won't bother everyone much more..

Is using a bolt instead of a roll pin that bad of an idea? As stated, I can only think if something were to get very jammed, I could damage the gears or engine much worse, but that hasn't happened, yet...but enough to snap a roll pin at the least repeatedly.

Or what about the Simplicity Signature Series? I can get their 24" model on that line for less money, low enough to keep wife happy...can't seem to find a lot of differences between the Signature and Pro, aside from more powerful engines..


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Your’s is the first impeller I learned has a shear pin. If it was mine knowing that it has years on it with intentions to replace it soon, I would chuck the shear bolt, replace it with a good old fashioned solid steel nut and bolt. It will not shear that thing. If it croaks it croaks, time anyway for something new and reliable. Just my humble thoughts


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

Some quick reading has me leaning to repair...and I could possibly just drill a new hole to avoid dealing with issues getting the old ones out.

Also, I just had a co-worker tell me he had a similar issue, and he blamed rust on the roll pins.. they are basically cheap metal that will last fine for a season or two, but the roll pins rust out little by little, and being such a small area that is actually holding the impeller in place, it doesn't take much weakness to allow the impeller to simply snap off the end of the pin.

That being said...if I repair, options are to use a nut/bolt with some blue loctite...or try to find an actual sheer pin that would fit, so if/when it breaks again, it's an easier repair...

I may go with the bolt option, and look into replacing for next season....get me through this season and not worry about the money right now..


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I would try to remove the pin, and use a bolt. It's belt drive, no gears before the impeller, so I think the risk is serious damage is low. At worst, the belt slips. You won't blow the gearbox or anything. You could damage the belt, but that's a reasonable thing to repair. And you shouldn't be locking the impeller up that hard anyhow. 

I'd probably start with a grade 5 bolt. Grade 8 is stronger, but if it ever got stuck somehow, it would be really hard to drill out. Coat the item with anti-seize before installing it, and I'd use a nylock nut, to help make sure it doesn't loosen. 

My MTD had 2 spiral pins, I think, securing the impeller to the shaft. They were fine, but had more meat to them than a typical roll pin, I suppose.


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## toromike (Aug 20, 2018)

I noticed that you referred to the impeller shear pin in the singular, e.g. only one shear pin is installed. Many snowblowers have two roll pins installed in the impeller. Check closely that there is not another hole for a roll pin. If you truly only have one hole for a roll pin I suggest you consider drilling another hole in the impeller and adding a second roll pin (remove and replace the broken pin). And as Red suggested if you replace the roll pin(s) use OEM roll pins if possible.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

RS182 said:


> ...I could possibly just drill a new hole to avoid dealing with issues getting the old ones out...


 If you end up drilling it, and the current hole is 1/4", use the 1/4" Ariens bolt: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Ariens-Ste...JTOEPvUS0QyRbg95VQBoCvaAQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Or consider up-sizing it to 5/16"; then you can use the larger Ariens Deluxe Impeller Shear Bolt which is even tougher: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Ariens-Steel-Snow-Blower-Shear-Pins/1000102413


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Back on the impeller clearly is a roll pain. Not they won't rust out but they have no strength. Why they did it? Cheap or stupid but its been unreliable so I got cheap. Yea you can fix it but all the other breakdowns? 

If you want to go with good and get a machine that will do it, I would go with Toro (wheeled only). I would go with the most HP to width
Toro at 8 hp (more or less) and 24 inch chute is a great HP to width (they used to be 5 hp for 24 back in the day so they have realized it was not enough. $900
https://www.torodealer.com/en-us/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=Power-Max-824-OE-37798(Toro)

Or go up and a 1028 HD. I think I prefer the trigger turn vs the automatic so its the bigger one, its still close to in your budget.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Know any neighbors that have a welding machine? When I was a teen, I was forced to change a clutch in a ford that I sold. Well, I broke a couple of bolts holding the pressure plate against the flywheel. A clutch was bad enough, but I was in no mood to screw around with a flywheel plus the clutch and reinstalling the pressure plate.

My friend forced the pressure plate against the flywheel using a bar while I welded that sucker flush against the flywheel. Worked like a charm.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Heh, yeah, welding it would certainly join them together solidly  But if the roll pin can just be pushed/punched out (hopefully, if it's been replaced a few times), I'd start by replacing it with a bolt, and see if that does it.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

RedOctobyr said:


> Heh, yeah, welding it would certainly join them together solidly  But if the roll pin can just be pushed/punched out (hopefully, if it's been replaced a few times), I'd start by replacing it with a bolt, and see if that does it.


Sure but the OP is thinking of a new machine soon.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

If the bolt holds, then it benefits the next owner too. And it should be fairly straightforward. 

If OP has a welder already, of course, or nearby access to one, then that's great too. I'm not trying to take anything away from that approach. 

If this was happening to me, I might go grab the welder, it's easy if you have one. But it's a bigger undertaking if you need to bring the machine to a welding shop and pay them. A bolt is cheap and simple. It should be stronger than a roll pin, so might be a permanent fix.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

roll pins have been used for decades to attach the impeller to the auger shaft...can't be that bad...replace the broken one(s) and go on with your life. That said....look at a used Ariens 924 series or a Simplicity Pro model.....lifetime machines...and cheap when used....


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

Wow...this is truly a great place. Thanks to everyone so far!

Yesterday I got home, and had to use a garden torch to melt off inches of snow and ice...lo and behold, what do I find? One of the roll pins. As someone noted above, I should have two, and indeed I do and just failed to mention that. I kept it, but I don't think it would do me any good. I won't admit to giving that pin the middle finger.

Anyway, it was taking a while to cool off, and I also had work inside to do to make room for a different project, and with daylight all but gone, I put her away for the night.

I work 5 minutes from a Lowes, so I will head over at lunch today to look at getting a long drill bit, and just a bolt, and just go right through the top of the housing, and into the the impeller and shaft, and then secure it with the bolt and loctite.

Hopefully this will be resolved soon.. I'm lucking out with a big storm this weekend, but temps will be in the 40s', so just a rainy mess...


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Good luck! If you want to hold off on permanent modifications, starting with a pair of grade 5 bolts might be enough to help solve the issue. 

For my curiosity, the roll pins were breaking in half, right? Not slipping out of the holes? Just seems weird to keep breaking them, that's not a type of failure that I hear mentioned often.


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

I'll check what's left of the pin I did find in the melted ice. It doesn't look broken in half, but it may just have broken at the end, and there isn't really much that holds it in, aside from the spring pressure. I'm thinking over time, if it didn't break or rust, it may have just lost it's tension and slipped right out...


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## toromike (Aug 20, 2018)

Not all roll pins are created equal. What is available at the big box stores may be the lowest tier. McMaster-Carr offers standard and heavy duty coiled spring pins (roll pins), heavy duty are 30% stonger. The OEM pins may well be the heavy duty variety. 
https://www.mcmaster.com/metal-spring-pins
I've seen roll pins where the hole in the center was pretty open and others where it was almost closed.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

It was a while ago, but the ones on my MTD were coiled. They didn't just look like a simple closed "C". Can you find a pic of the OEM pins?

This was before I realized how you split the machine (and before forums like this). I thought those pins had to come out. I beat on them with a punch and mallet, they didn't budge  So they were definitely tight.


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

For my replacements, I likely used OEM or whatever big box had. I had a Sears Parts store about 30 minutes away, and I always tried to go there...but alas, Sears is effectively dead, and that store is now gone...shame, because they could have let it stay open even under a private label, and they could have sold and sold...it was always busy there...another reason why I contemplated a different brand...not that I would get anything under the Craftsman label these days..lol

I'll get a pic of what I have left. I believe it is also not rolled, and just a closed-C type..


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## toromike (Aug 20, 2018)

RedOctobyr, I didn't know the model number for the craftsman machine, so no pictures of the OEM pin. The impellers that use pins that I have experience with all had the coiled spring pin type and I assumed that was the type of pin RS182 had. But, RS182 has been using the slotted type pin so that is probably why the pin is repeatedly breaking. Using a coiled type pin could solve the problem. Or as tabora noted, if the hole is 1/4", Ariens shear bolts could be a solution. I don't like the idea of drilling the holes any larger because that will weaken the shaft. Also, my Toro machines use impeller shear bolts that I believe are 1/4".


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I got a good laugh on myself when I in pure desperation (broken shear pin and no spares) I used a Grade 8+ fastener in its place.
When I pulled it, it was bent and twisted like no shear pin, **** of a time getting it out.
A good mfg (not that it applies to C-Man) is a very specific treated bolt that has nothing to do with standard hardness and grade ratings. Sometimes softer is better as it has more spring back. 

Graded bolts work in tension (clamping) not laterally for their rating. 

I have my shear bolt rescue kit in a bag. It has the two wrenches, punch and shear pins and nuts. Grab the hammer and away I go. 

Nothing wrong with drilling it for a bolt, experiment even but it sounds like you have a blower that is not reliable. The Toro at the end was so bad my wife took pity on me and told me we were going to the already investigated Yamaha. She is a touch cookie but seeing me stop drill, put on plates in snow storms was enough to convince her I was not just after a new blower, Toro truly had reached the end of its life (I am not one to buy tools because they are bright and shiny and new, only if I need it and think I will need it down the road enough times to justify)


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

Just grabbed the parts at Lowes. Got a heavy metal drill bit at 1/4", and a 12" extension. Total of both is about 17", which should be enough to get down and through. Also picked up a pair of G8 bolts and nylock nuts. I'll still use some loctite anyway, just to help keep them on.. Guy at the store said what I was doing would work, as would welding, which is what he did to his Craftsman years ago..

I plan to do some test drilling today, make sure it all lines up and I can get it done...but I have about 10-15 minutes of light after work, so I'll probably finish it off Saturday morning...


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

You know you loose your Blower card if you don't get a new one? 

You have an 007 license to buy a new one and not taking it?
Oh the Humanity. 

When my wife agreed we needed a new one the only thing holding me back was it was late at night, we were down at the dealer at the crack of opening (not dawn as it was totally like dark that time of year, I have the receipt, January)


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

lol.. I wouldn't call it a free license to buy. She simply told me to stop complaining about it being broken again, and maybe "I" should go buy a new one...meaning, I can use my money to buy whatever I want...lol

Considering I have a much larger project running on my house, I need to be semi-smart about spending that kind of money...


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

With all the blowers I've done over the past several years, I've only had to replace sheared roll pins on the auger shaft once....had to pull the auger assembly but not a hard job.....I would just replace the roll pins and not overthink the job. That said....a $300 used Ariens or simplicity Pro or Toro would give you a lot of piece of mind by eliminating the stress of not having a backup. Working on this stuff is much more fun without the pressure of having to fix something under less then ideal conditions


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Gees........do I remember those days of Wifey pain. I used to give my paycheck to her to run the house and then beg for lunch money, all projects, tools or things of interest that I wanted to purchase. NO MORE ‘’why do you need that?; that that is just too expensive;‘’ and the agony goes on and on.

That poop ended years ago. Sure I still pay for the house expenses, even give her money As far as money goes, her’s is her’s and mine is mine.


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

Ok, update after the weekend. It's back together and working. I did drill a hole on top of the housing, then had to stop as I couldn't find my step up bit to make the hole big enough for the extension to pass through...the part that holds the drill bit is bigger than the bit itself, and another good reminder I need a full drill bit set...lol

Then I thought about it, and figured I found one old pin, and maybe the other pin was also out, and it was...so nothing to punch out, no need for a hole, and no need to drill new holes. I simple used the two grade 8, 1/4-20 x1.5" bolts I picked up, and they fit right in the existing holes from the pins. I used a nylock nut, cranked pretty hard...something else I couldn't find, my blue loctite, but I can add a dab later. I think it's with my RC Traxxas kit, and that's not at home right now.

Anyway, got the bolts in and secured, fired her up and was able to confirm the impeller was moving nice and tight, no play between impeller and main drive shaft. 

Now, here's hoping I don't need to use the machine again...lol Just good to know I have it working again if needed..

First pic below is the original pin, second pic is how it is now with the bolts..

Thanks again to everyone who gave advice... I've found quite a few interesting threads and discussions here, really a great forum!


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Nice, glad you got it fixed! 

I've read not to use Loctite with nylon locknuts, there is apparently a concern with it degrading the nylon. The nylock should be plenty for doing the job, that's what I used for the fasteners on my impeller kit, those pieces have been on my impeller for probably 5+ years with no apparent issues. 

If it were me, I'd leave it as just the nylock nuts, and skip the Loctite. 

And unless you remove the nuts first, just adding a drop of Loctite at the back of the nut won't really do much anyhow, I suspect it wouldn't be able to wick down the threads, it would be blocked by the nylon being tight against the threads.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

RedOctobyr said:


> Nice, glad you got it fixed!
> 
> I've read not to use Loctite with nylon locknuts, there is apparently a concern with it degrading the nylon. The nylock should be plenty for doing the job, that's what I used for the fasteners on my impeller kit, those pieces have been on my impeller for probably 5+ years with no apparent issues.
> 
> If it were me, I'd leave it as just the nylock nuts, and skip the Loctite.


IMHO Nylock or thread locker would be an either or situation. I like the nylock when possible because it's cleaner and easier than finding my bottle of thread locker and mopping up any spills. :devil:

.


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## RS182 (Jan 21, 2020)

Duly noted, loctite not needed, so it will stay as is...

I'm just happy to know it will be there if and when I need it in the future....thanks again to all.


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