# Inconsistent cold starts



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

Finally got to use my new Ariens Deluxe 24 this year. Bought it new at the end of last season and New England is in for another 12+ inches of snow over the next 24 hours.

Been noticing inconsistent starting the last few outings. My technique for pull starting has been relatively the same. Temperature has been consistent around mid 20s. Been using Seafoam and Shell V-Plus high octane fuel. Stored in the same spot. All in all, things have been quite consistent. Starting the thing has not been:

Day 1: Took about 7 pulls from a cold start.
Day 2: Took 1 pull from a cold start.
Day 3: Took 4 pulls from a cold start.
Day 4: ???

Probably not a big deal, but I though these machines are known to start in 2 pulls. Have not even tried the electric start yet, but will eventually. Once it does fire up it seems to run pretty well. Thanks for the help!


----------



## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Most say seafoam is for keeping carb clean, stabil is for water and gas freshness. I use stabil marine myself. I have more issues with moisture then old gas clogging the carb. I shut off gas and run carb dry for sitting periods. Inconsistent starting sounds like water or clogged carb, but if it runs fine, might just be how it is.


-efisher-


----------



## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

7 pulls is a lot, was this the first use of the season? Full choke, 3 primer pumps?

Have you been running the carb "dry" after each use? And maybe turning the gas back on without enough time for the fuel bowl to fill fully?


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

e.fisher26 said:


> Most say seafoam is for keeping carb clean, stabil is for water and gas freshness. I use stabil marine myself. I have more issues with moisture then old gas clogging the carb. I shut off gas and run carb dry for sitting periods. Inconsistent starting sounds like water or clogged carb, but if it runs fine, might just be how it is.
> 
> 
> -efisher-


Quite possibly water. As a precaution, I use a Mr. Funnel when filling fuel, that is supposed to filter out basically anything (water included) but the fuel. Thanks for the reply.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

drmerdp said:


> 7 pulls is a lot, was this the first use of the season? Full choke, 3 primer pumps?
> 
> Have you been running the carb "dry" after each use? And maybe turning the gas back on without enough time for the fuel bowl to fill fully?


I thought 7 pulls was a lot as well, and no it wasn't the first start this season -- yes full choke and 3 primer pumps each time. I have not been running the carb dry. Is this recommended? I have been told this could freeze the fuel lines and the areas without fuel (carb).

It was started about a month ago from summer storage, and I do recall that took a few pulls as well. But that was due to everything being dry from storage and fuel getting back to the lines. I'm hoping that maybe over time as the machine breaks in it will settle in more consistently. I would love to pull this thing in two starts or less -- don't we all. I'm not getting any younger.


----------



## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

I would call the dealer, and see if they would send someone out to check it out. It should not take more than 1-2 pulls. Or, maybe you have some bad gas, despite your additives. Or, maybe too much additives. Did you measure it accurately, and shake it up before adding ?

Or, maybe your choke is not working properly, or the primer hose has come disconnected. My 10 year old Ariens takes 2 pulls at most - usually one.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

RIT333 said:


> I would call the dealer, and see if they would send someone out to check it out. It should not take more than 1-2 pulls. Or, maybe you have some bad gas, despite your additives. Or, maybe too much additives. Did you measure it accurately, and shake it up before adding ?
> 
> Or, maybe your choke is not working properly, or the primer hose has come disconnected. My 10 year old Ariens takes 2 pulls at most - usually one.


Good advice. I will call them tomorrow. Should still be under warranty.

Yes measured the additives based on manufacturers spec. Gas is no more than 4 days old. Didn't bother to shake up the Seafoam.


----------



## outrag1 (Feb 10, 2017)

Is it required to have it on "Full" choke when starting? I ask because my new Ariens 24 Platinum seems to start on 1 pull when I use mid choke...I don't think I've started it on full choke yet because after a few pulls I moved to less choke and it kicked right over. I took that as it's been in a warm basement and didn't need the full choke???


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

My suggestions: 

1. Stop with the seafoam. If you are going to use an additive, use STABIL-360 which will treat ethanol and also stabilize the fuel. Seafoam is.. for old things. Your machine does not need it and will not bennefit from it at this point. Add to that that Seafoam is not a true fuel stabilizer, although it is known to help. I like the stuff very much, but it won't be helpful on modern engines running it all the time. 
2. Stop running premium octane gasoline. Your machine will purr very nicely with 87 octane. That top notch shell V-Power stuff is for advanced fuel injection systems on vehicles, not small engines, or even small engines with fuel injection. 
3. Confirm this starting method-
A: Set choke to full 
B: Set throttle to full 
C: Prime 2-3 times 
D: Pull Recoil rope handle 
E: Should start right up- gradually reduce choke over the space of 5-10 seconds until fully off
F: Grin ear to ear and think you are the top dog and post on here how excited you are because your snowblower started with just one simple pull..

Run the machine a few times with just fresh fuel without any of the additives.


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

outrag1 said:


> Is it required to have it on "Full" choke when starting? I ask because my new Ariens 24 Platinum seems to start on 1 pull when I use mid choke...I don't think I've started it on full choke yet because after a few pulls I moved to less choke and it kicked right over. I took that as it's been in a warm basement and didn't need the full choke???


Depends on the environment and outside temps. But regardless, you should see it sputter and fire up be it full or half.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

outrag1 said:


> Is it required to have it on "Full" choke when starting? I ask because my new Ariens 24 Platinum seems to start on 1 pull when I use mid choke...I don't think I've started it on full choke yet because after a few pulls I moved to less choke and it kicked right over. I took that as it's been in a warm basement and didn't need the full choke???


I will be curious once you've moved from the warm basement into the frigid cold. My estimation is that you will then need to use the FULL choke.

BTW, aren't you located in MA? What's that beast doing in a warm basement?


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

GoBlowSnow said:


> My suggestions:
> 
> 1. Stop with the seafoam. If you are going to use an additive, use STABIL-360 which will treat ethanol and also stabilize the fuel. Seafoam is.. for old things. Your machine does not need it and will not bennefit from it at this point. Add to that that Seafoam is not a true fuel stabilizer, although it is known to help. I like the stuff very much, but it won't be helpful on modern engines running it all the time.
> 2. Stop running premium octane gasoline. Your machine will purr very nicely with 87 octane. That top notch shell V-Power stuff is for advanced fuel injection systems on vehicles, not small engines, or even small engines with fuel injection.
> ...


Thanks for this info. After this tank is empty (runs great after it starts) I will definitely take your suggestion and just use fresh 87 octane fuel. I suspect that you have had the same experience as I, judging by your confidence inspiring post : ) Stay tuned.


----------



## outrag1 (Feb 10, 2017)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> I will be curious once you've moved from the warm basement into the frigid cold. My estimation is that you will then need to use the FULL choke.
> 
> BTW, aren't you located in MA? What's that beast doing in a warm basement?


It's where I store it and it's part of house so heated. No room in my garage due to wife's car and my summer car haha...


All I know is it kicks right over mid choke but does not on full choke, so I'm hoping it's a temp thing and not some other issue. I just wanted to bring it up to you in case you found a difference too.


----------



## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Take a peek and see if the primer line is good. There were a few post a while back on Ariens (LCT/AX) rotting the primer line in very short time from new. You should be able to look up under the cover and locate it (can put in service position or just tilt up and support a bit with a jack stand/box to make it easier on the knees). Pop it off and plug the end with your thumb and press on the bulb. You should feel resistance at the bulb. If you hear a hiss you know there's a leak somewhere or it was never attached maybe. Personal preference, but if you have a Torch plug I'd replace it with an NGK. I've seen a couple friends/neighbors have new Ariens delivered with a Champion or NGK also, so may not have a Torch. The only really good use for the Torch brand plugs is securely placed in the dumpster
Again, just an opinion. My LCT is on it's 3rd season and will literally start half way through the first pull.


----------



## outrag1 (Feb 10, 2017)

jtclays said:


> Take a peek and see if the primer line is good. There were a few post a while back on Ariens (LCT/AX) rotting the primer line in very short time from new. You should be able to look up under the cover and locate it (can put in service position or just tilt up and support a bit with a jack stand/box to make it easier on the knees). Pop it off and plug the end with your thumb and press on the bulb. You should feel resistance at the bulb. If you hear a hiss you know there's a leak somewhere or it was never attached maybe. Personal preference, but if you have a Torch plug I'd replace it with an NGK. I've seen a couple friends/neighbors have new Ariens delivered with a Champion or NGK also, so may not have a Torch. The only really good use for the Torch brand plugs is securely placed in the dumpster
> Again, just an opinion. My LCT is on it's 3rd season and will literally start half way through the first pull.


Great info...thanks for that. I will look at the plug and the primer line as well.


----------



## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Just FYI if you've never removed a plug on these engines use a thin walled socket. If you don't have one, borrow one or buy one specifically for future use. There's not a lot of room around the plug and it's way down in there.


----------



## outrag1 (Feb 10, 2017)

Not to take over this thread but in my case anyway, I went down to take another look before using the blower tonight. This time I primed it 4-5 times but also put throttle on full before I started it. It kicked within 1/2 a pull. It was in Full Choke and I couldn't get it started before in Full Choke. This was also in my warm basement before I brought it outside so I no longer think temp has anything to do with it. 


So not sure if I wasn't priming enough or if starting in low throttle causes issues.


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Low throttle starts generally are not going to be successful for these engines. They need full throttle to get em turning over and moving fuel and air, then you can back down on the throttle once you've reduced the choke after starting it. I don't like roaring engines on start up myself, but that's just the way these small engines work, my friend.


----------



## fixer5000 (Nov 3, 2013)

i have an ariens 28 deluxe with the briggs 250cc engine. i use 87 octane gas with maybe 2 ounces of seafoam to 5 gallons for my stored gas. never let it get older than 2 months old. this machine after turning on full choke and priming it 4 times starts first pull every time without fail. always stored in a cold shed. i never run it dry after use and dont have any issues. fixing to go out in a bit to blow away the latest dumping here in mass!!


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

jtclays said:


> Take a peek and see if the primer line is good. There were a few post a while back on Ariens (LCT/AX) rotting the primer line in very short time from new. You should be able to look up under the cover and locate it (can put in service position or just tilt up and support a bit with a jack stand/box to make it easier on the knees). Pop it off and plug the end with your thumb and press on the bulb. You should feel resistance at the bulb. If you hear a hiss you know there's a leak somewhere or it was never attached maybe. Personal preference, but if you have a Torch plug I'd replace it with an NGK. I've seen a couple friends/neighbors have new Ariens delivered with a Champion or NGK also, so may not have a Torch. The only really good use for the Torch brand plugs is securely placed in the dumpster
> Again, just an opinion. My LCT is on it's 3rd season and will literally start half way through the first pull.


Thanks for this. Checked the primer line earlier and all looks good. What is a torch plug?


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

So the dealer called me this morning, so glad that I made the purchase from them, they were very helpful. She recommended that instead of the recommended 3 pumps of primer, I should go two more pumps (total of 5). The mechanic mentioned that there is an overflow that will drain excess fuel to avoid flooding the carb. Under pretty much the same conditions mentioned earlier, and almost the same conditions, I went through the routine procedure.

*SHE FIRED UP ON THE FIRST PULL.* 

In the future, I will back off from using Seafoam, as some of you have mentioned. I will be trying Stabil 360 on fresh 87 octane. Maybe run Seafoam occasionally because I think there are great benefits to that product.

Thanks everybody for your help! Great forum!


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

its pretty much a cheap clone of an ngk spark plug. yours will probably have a torch ft6c or something like that, just toss it


----------



## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Here's the cross reference from Ariens. I don't know if the new ones still come with Torch brand or not and delivering dealers swapped them out, but I have seen neighbors machines delivered new with Champion and NGK.
Sno-Thro & Sno-Tek Spark Plugs


----------



## knifedealer (Feb 13, 2017)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> The mechanic mentioned that there is an overflow that will drain excess fuel to avoid flooding the carb.


Just so you know, it will drain (drip) onto your driveway, garage floor, etc., and not back into the tank. At least that is what happens with mine (Ariens/Tecumseh 9 hp) . I always keep a piece of cardboard under it, just behind the left wheel, when priming.


----------



## Blackstar (Dec 27, 2010)

jtclays said:


> Here's the cross reference from Ariens. I don't know if the new ones still come with Torch brand or not and delivering dealers swapped them out, but I have seen neighbors machines delivered new with Champion and NGK.
> Sno-Thro & Sno-Tek Spark Plugs


Either I'm missing something or this site doesn't list my 414cc engine. 2014 921040 Platinum 30 SHO. Not sure which plug I have but replacing with a new one after a couple years wouldn't hurt.


----------



## Loco-diablo (Feb 12, 2015)

fixer5000 said:


> i have an ariens 28 deluxe with the briggs 250cc engine. i use 87 octane gas with maybe 2 ounces of seafoam to 5 gallons for my stored gas. never let it get older than 2 months old. this machine after turning on full choke and priming it 4 times starts first pull every time without fail.



I have the same 250cc Briggs on my deluxe 27. I add stabil marine as directed to 3 gallons 87 octane. Briggs and most small engine makers recommend 87 octane. I'm in my 8th winter with this machine and with full choke, full throttle,it starts 1st pull every time. For storage, I shut the gas valve and run it till it stalls. Then I loosen the carb nut to drain the bowl and top off the tank with fuel. I also add another squirt of stabil to the tank. I've never had fuel related issues.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Blackstar said:


> Either I'm missing something or this site doesn't list my 414cc engine. 2014 921040 Platinum 30 SHO. Not sure which plug I have but replacing with a new one after a couple years wouldn't hurt.


Page 10 of the manual, page 11 of the PDF.

http://lctusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/PGM45015_Online-Service-Man_revE_080816.pdf


----------



## djc11369 (Feb 17, 2014)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> So the dealer called me this morning, so glad that I made the purchase from them, they were very helpful. She recommended that instead of the recommended 3 pumps of primer, I should go two more pumps (total of 5). The mechanic mentioned that there is an overflow that will drain excess fuel to avoid flooding the carb. Under pretty much the same conditions mentioned earlier, and almost the same conditions, I went through the routine procedure.
> 
> *SHE FIRED UP ON THE FIRST PULL.*
> 
> ...


Wow, 5 pumps? That sounds excessive. I had a similar problem with hard starting and used Seafoam to cure it. Drained the tank and carb bowl, put in fresh gas with the Seafoam which I forget the ratio now but I erred to the high side, then started it for a few a minute and shut it off. I let it sit for a few days and then ran it for 5 minutes and it seems better than new. One primer pump and choke fully on and it starts on first crank, then turn choke fully off. I've always used Stabil, ethanol version for the past few years, however it seems it didn't do the trick from my experience. Gas was at most a couple of months old and was Stabil 360 as well. If I pumped 5 times I'm pretty sure I'd have gas running out in a puddle on the third pump.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

43128 said:


> its pretty much a cheap clone of an ngk spark plug. yours will probably have a torch ft6c or something like that, just toss it


In the off season I will put in a new plug. Do you have a part no.?


----------



## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

FWIW, with the LCT engine...

The recommended cold-start protocol for most of these engines seems about the same. I'm not a huge fan of instant full-rpm operation from cold, so I adjusted the procedure a bit.

First, I shut down the engine after each use by turning the fuel off and setting the throttle to idle as I get ready to roll back towards the garage. That way the carburetor bowl is dry. As others recommend, I use Sta-Bil in regular gas for every fill. Then to start from cold the next time:

-- Turn the fuel valve to open position.
-- Throttle just a tiny bit off idle.
-- Choke one click from full choke.
-- Two (only) pumps on the primer.
-- Gently pull the starter cord to bring the piston to top center on compression.
-- Then a single pull on the cord starts it every time.
-- I almost immediately open the choke and drop the throttle to idle speed.

It sits at idle while I go close the garage door and finish with protective gear (ear protection, glasses, over-gloves). Then throttle and get to work.

Three primer pushes gives a hard pre-start fuel smell, and takes a couple extra pulls sometimes. Throttle all the way to idle gives a sputter on the first pull but starts OK on the second, so the just-off-idle recommendation. Full choke forces me to reach down quickly to get it open when it starts, or have it firing every other rotation with too much fuel until I can get the coke open. So one click from full choke gets it done for me.

One of my neighbors asked about the electric start. I was forced to admit that I've never even tried it. More work dragging the extension cord out than pulling the recoil starter handle.

How spoiled we are!


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> In the off season I will put in a new plug. Do you have a part no.?


i would just use an ngk bpr6es


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

dr bob said:


> One of my neighbors asked about the electric start. I was forced to admit that I've never even tried it. More work dragging the extension cord out than pulling the recoil starter handle.
> 
> How spoiled we are!


Yeah, I hear you. Not even sure if my electric start works. Until the day I cannot pull start I will continue to do so.


----------

