# Addressing Buyers Remorse and Returns



## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I know some of you sell used equipment . I have sold used things for about 40 years. Cars, motorcycles , thru first classified newspaper ads and now the internet. All private party and not as a business.

I am wondering how you handle buyers remorse although I am sure it is very rare but I am sure it still happens on high dollar items? Also how do you handle it when someone damages something they bought from you and then claim that is the way they got it?

In an extreme case I had a guy buy an old car from me and 2 years later threatened me with court because the tranny went out. That was easy. I laughed at him.

In a recent case i had a really nice guy buy a used blower. He got it home and put it on cardboard and a couple days later some oil dripped. He proceeded to overtighten the bolt and broke it. he brought it back and claimed he did not know how it happened and it must have been like that when he bought it. I know different as I went thru the whole machine before selling. So anyway I fixed it. Then he brings it back because it would not start. I started it on second pull. Then about a month later he brings it back because he could not start it again.

I took carb apart this time and cleaned it out and it started first pull. I had to get rude and tell him "this is it" you don't get a lifetime warranty on a used machine.

Last recent case a guy bought a used blower from me at a high price as it was one of my beautiful rebuilds. Everything I told him was the absolute truth , it's age, the compression reading , the parts I replaced, the work performed , etc etc. I told him if he wanted to think about it for a day or two that would be fine. I also suggested he bring a mechanic if he wanted. I covered all the bases.

He did not want to wait so gave me the cash. Two days later he is having second thoughts. I think maybe he found a better deal and wants his money back so he can save $400-500 on some other used machine. He did mention that there were cheaper machines exactly the same model as mine on line. I hear that all the time and i tell all these people "then go ahead and buy the cheaper machine" I also tell them my machines have been serviced and you don't know what you are getting with another used machine that has not been serviced in several years.

I know these cases are probably rare but just the same , a real PIA. I want to be nice but up to a point. How do I know the owner has not abused or damaged the machine somehow? And I don't think he will accept a couple hundred dollar less refund for having it only a week. In our state there is no 72 hour cooling off period for private party sales made from your personal residence.

I'm sure some of you have experience in this and want to know how you handle it. Not speaking about it if you have a legal business. Just private party used sales. 

In the last case I told the guy to sell the machine and get what he wanted as he now owns the machine. Tough lesson . ( he's in his 40's and not a 18 year old kid )


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## bigredmf (Jan 16, 2018)

I use a pretty formal bill of sale for personal autos I sell

It’s kind of brutally worded requiring buyers to list their drivers license number and a witness to sign it etc

Screams As Is Where is No Warranty or returns

The few times I used it I was amazed how eagerly people would sign it. 
Would seem to be extreme for a blower sale though.

Red


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

.

Part of the problem is retailers will take anything back now even after its been used (even underwear and party supplies!) so people are conditioned to it. 

I like the idea of issuing a bill of sale

.


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

Yes, I think that some remark on the bill of sale about "as is" and "no returns or exchanges" is justified here.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

tdipaul said:


> .
> 
> Part of the problem is retailers will take anything back now even after its been used (even underwear and party supplies!) so people are conditioned to it.
> 
> ...


I think you hit right on it. Costco and other retailers will take back things even after a couple years. I have given bills of sale with AS-IS WHERE-As on it when people ask for a receipt on non vehicle items. Usually it is a business owner who requests it.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

A bill of sale worded to cover "AS-IS" will go a long way avoiding these hassles, also would serve as a receipt for you and the buyer. If anyone has an issue with the bill of sale then that should come as a warning to you as the buyer may be one of those that might give you grief down the road. 



I have had old customers reach out to me after the purchase, usually its only to inquire about how to use the machine and or a question about a feature.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

bill of sale written , as is, used item,no warranty, no returns,


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

As Judge Judy would say "Caviar Emptor" or Buyer Beware. Buyer has a responsibility to fully inspect anything they are buying but especially something used, if they don't have any knowledge they have to research or have an expert help enlighten them. Seller has responsibility to be accurate in describing what is being sold and not mislead the buyer. Take pictures, keep receipts of what you put into the machine and time invested also. If you want to offer a warranty, in writing or verbal, offer a no money back but a one week guarantee on their purchase (just an example) after that period you will be charging them for parts and service. Good Luck, Chin Up!


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

If you're advertising it on Craigs, Facebook, ... have something already written out in word or whatever writing app you use that is pretty straight forward saying all sales final, used, as is or specifically states what you're willing to do if anything and when you make a sale that is really complete and to the point and then you can cut and past it to each ad. When you're getting ready to make the sale, print the ad and have the buyer sign it.

Nothing will stop that one in a thousand from trying to get something for noting or whining about something that isn't your fault or responsibility but it's the best you can do to cover your butt.
You might even add a line or make the person write out that they have inspected the machine and accept it as is without warranty and hold you harmless. They sign, date and you file it somewhere just in case.

For stuff I sell I'm brutally honest about it's condition and anything I'm in doubt of I disclose in the ad along with a lot of photos. Doing that and saying that's why it's priced at xxx also has the benefit of not getting nit picked when a buyer shows up. They know what to expect and pretty close to what I'm expecting to get for it.

.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> If you're advertising it on Craigs, Facebook, ... have something already written out in word or whatever writing app you use that is pretty straight forward saying all sales final, used, as is or specifically states what you're willing to do if anything and when you make a sale that is really complete and to the point and then you can cut and past it to each ad. When you're getting ready to make the sale, print the ad and have the buyer sign it.
> 
> Nothing will stop that one in a thousand from trying to get something for noting or whining about something that isn't your fault or responsibility but it's the best you can do to cover your butt.
> You might even add a line or make the person write out that they have inspected the machine and accept it as is without warranty and hold you harmless. They sign, date and you file it somewhere just in case.
> ...


ya I hear you. This is just a few cases out of maybe 50-60 over the last couple years. 95% of the buyers are very happy and sometimes I don't even have to advertise as I get referrals from them.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

EQUIPMENT BILL OF SALE

Let it be known that _____________________ (Hereinafter referred to as the “Buyer”) agrees to purchase from _____________________ (Hereinafter referred to as the “Seller”) for the price of $_____________________ (US Dollars) for the following item (Hereinafter referred to as the “Equipment”):
Description: ___________________________________________________________
Make: ________________ Model: ________________ Year: ________________
Serial No. ________________ Reading (if applicable): ________________
The date of the transfer of funds and the possession of the equipment shall occur on the ____ day of ______________, 20____. Seller acknowledges that they have the full ownership rights and is legally allowed to sell the Equipment. In addition, the Seller is transferring the Equipment with no warranties and strictly in “as-is”. At this time the Equipment is in operating condition.

Signature of Buyer __________________ Date ____________ Print ______________

Signature of Seller __________________ Date ____________ Print ______________


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

russ01915 said:


> EQUIPMENT BILL OF SALE
> 
> Let it be known that _____________________ (Hereinafter referred to as the “Buyer”) agrees to purchase from _____________________ (Hereinafter referred to as the “Seller”) for the price of $_____________________ (US Dollars) for the following item (Hereinafter referred to as the “Equipment”):
> Description: ___________________________________________________________
> ...


sad that it comes down to this.
my Dad told me in the old days ( and I remember them as well ) all you needed was a handshake.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> If you're advertising it on Craigs, Facebook, ... *have something already written out in word or whatever writing app you use that is pretty straight forward saying all sales final, used, as is* or specifically states what you're willing to do if anything and when you make a sale that is really complete and to the point and then you can cut and past it to each ad. When you're getting ready to make the sale, print the ad and have the buyer sign it.


if you do that you most likely won't sell anything unless you are practically giving it away. most of the time if someone puts as is on something in the ad i probably won't even look at it. i completely understand it with vehicles because the as is vehicles generally need work which can sometimes be cheaper or really expensive. it should be a given that anything bought or sold privately is as is unless otherwise stated. 

i think i have only been burned once by someone that i took something back from. i should have known better than to take it back since i know the guy had been messing with it but at least it was only a $40 record player. the guy was an idiot. the record player needed a pre-amp or phono input which i doubt he had. he changed the needle thinking it was the reason it was so quiet. i even posted in the ad that it needed 1 or the other. it almost seems like most people are too stupid to even read the ad. i know i get so many messages about stuff i sell that could be answered if they just read the ad


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

If I buy a used machine on Craigslist or somthing it’s up to me to check it out. If it runs and meets my checklist at time of purchase I can’t go back to the seller if somthing happens. I always assume sold as is from both sides. 


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

orangputeh said:


> sad that it comes down to this.
> my Dad told me in the old days ( and I remember them as well ) all you needed was a handshake.


That is also how I was brought up. Sadly times have changed.


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

russ01915 said:


> EQUIPMENT BILL OF SALE
> 
> Let it be known that _____________________ (Hereinafter referred to as the “Buyer”) agrees to purchase from _____________________ (Hereinafter referred to as the “Seller”) for the price of $_____________________ (US Dollars) for the following item (Hereinafter referred to as the “Equipment”):
> Description: ___________________________________________________________
> ...


This is basically what I was trying to convey to the OP. Very nice document. I guess in today's world the only handshake you can trust is the one from your own family, hopefully.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

write up a "curb "n" gutter receipt ya getter to the curb...ya gutter.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

aldfam4 said:


> This is basically what I was trying to convey to the OP. Very nice document. I guess in today's world the only handshake you can trust is the one from your own family, hopefully.


You have to cover your A$$. Business is business. When I buy something used, I don't ask for a sales slip. But when I sell, I do have them sign the sales contract. You just never know.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

nwcove said:


> write up a "curb "n" gutter receipt ya getter to the curb...ya gutter.


Very clever and very funny! LoL


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

russ01915 said:


> EQUIPMENT BILL OF SALE
> 
> Let it be known that _____________________ (Hereinafter referred to as the “Buyer”) agrees to purchase from _____________________ (Hereinafter referred to as the “Seller”) for the price of $_____________________ (US Dollars) for the following item (Hereinafter referred to as the “Equipment”):
> Description: ___________________________________________________________
> ...


^^^ ......curb "n " gutter warantee right there. just to bad it has to be a legal document other than the mentioned handshake.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

russ01915 said:


> You have to cover your A$$. Business is business. When I buy something used, I don't ask for a sales slip. But when I sell, I do have them sign the sales contract. You just never know.


I bend over backwards for some people but i go by a case by case basis. If it was a young kid or newly married couple that had second thoughts I would probably give their money back. I know i would not have trouble selling this item again.

But a guy in his 40's? when i asked several times if he was sure and gave him some outs? 

probably not.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I gave a guy a machine a couple weeks ago, and he calls me and says it doesn't start. I think he's doing something wrong, but not sure. I'm going there tomorrow to see the machine. It happens.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

jsup said:


> I gave a guy a machine a couple weeks ago, and he calls me and says it doesn't start. I think he's doing something wrong, but not sure. I'm going there tomorrow to see the machine. It happens.


hopefully something simple like key not on or flooded engine or out of gas.. good luck.


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## Cutter (Mar 29, 2017)

I have always used a bill of sale with the words AS IS, and both parties sign it. No buyer signature, the item does not leave.
Most reasonable people will respect that, however, I know one individual who nobody here will deal with, for any price.
His excitement comes from making good people miserable. One equipment supplier here has actually refused to deal with him, 

no matter what item, or profit.:sad2:


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

I think putting ‘as is’ and ‘no warranty’, ‘ all sales final’ language in the Ad as well as including lots of pictures is pretty good protection without going to any extremes. Then save a copy of your Ad, even provide a copy with the machine.

The pictures can be referenced to verify the condition of the machine in case the buyer messes with something, then claims to have a problem.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> hopefully something simple like key not on or flooded engine or out of gas.. good luck.



That's what I'm thinking. It started on 1 half hearted pull when I gave it to him.


In the text I sent him, I asked if the key was on.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> hopefully something simple like key not on or flooded engine or out of gas.. good luck.



So I go there, and look at the machine. The key is on, the choke is out. I pull it twice, nothing happens. That's not the way I set things up. I go for two pumps and a pull. 



I take off the gas cap. One pull and it started.


The gas cap was bad and vapor locking it. Took me all of three minutes to get it running.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

jsup said:


> So I go there, and look at the machine. The key is on, the choke is out. I pull it twice, nothing happens. That's not the way I set things up. I go for two pumps and a pull.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hope you did not have to travel far.....

I stopped answering the phone because most problems are this easy.on the phone it will be 30 minutes to explain. in an email I just list what people can do in order and most times it's fixed.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> hope you did not have to travel far.....
> 
> I stopped answering the phone because most problems are this easy.on the phone it will be 30 minutes to explain. in an email I just list what people can do in order and most times it's fixed.



I had to go that way anyway. I have a parts supplier within 2 miles of the guy. He's a dentist and just saved me $2000 in dental work with a referral to an oral surgeon for my wife, so, It was a pleasure to go.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

jsup said:


> I had to go that way anyway. I have a parts supplier within 2 miles of the guy. He's a dentist and just saved me $2000 in dental work with a referral to an oral surgeon for my wife, so, It was a pleasure to go.


BIL is a dentist TG. can't figure out how check his own motor oil ,


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

I think a fair number of people who have/buy snow blowers do not have any idea of how the actually run . . . they just know if it runs or not.


Problem is that when these folks buy used, there is a base level of knowledge required to become familiar with the ins and outs of a new-to-them machine. Folks like that are better off buying a new machine with an owners manual that walks them through everything in a 'left foot, right foot' fashion.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I take some time to educate the buyer on how to operate....doesn't always work...


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

tpenfield said:


> I think a fair number of people who have/buy snow blowers do not have any idea of how the actually run . . . they just know if it runs or not.
> 
> 
> Problem is that when these folks buy used, there is a base level of knowledge required to become familiar with the ins and outs of a new-to-them machine. Folks like that are better off buying a new machine with an owners manual that walks them through everything in a 'left foot, right foot' fashion.



When I give a machine back to someone, it starts on the first pull, something many of them haven't seen since they rolled it off the showroom floor. It's because of MAINTENANCE!


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

tpenfield said:


> I think a fair number of people who have/buy snow blowers do not have any idea of how the actually run . . . they just know if it runs or not.
> 
> 
> Problem is that when these folks buy used, there is a base level of knowledge required to become familiar with the ins and outs of a new-to-them machine. Folks like that are better off buying a new machine with an owners manual that walks them through everything in a 'left foot, right foot' fashion.


I purchased a binding machine and a laser printer that prints on both sides of the paper for just that reason, I download the user manual and they all get one when the hand me the money.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

cranman said:


> I take some time to educate the buyer on how to operate....doesn't always work...


"you can lead a horse to water........."

yes, so i do the same thing but I'm sure they can't remember everything since it is somewhat overwelming to learn from scratch so fast. I tell them to practice when they get it home in the next day or two and to call me with questions right away. I don't want to get that phone call 5-6 months down the road the first time it snows.

I'm sure they bring it home and then put it away until it snows anyway. By that time they have forgotten everything I tried to teach them.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

lots of good info here @JLawrence08648


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## ou2mame (Dec 23, 2019)

I have had a couple people try to bring a machine back for a refund, but that's just not happening. That's never an option. I tell them that they can sell it if they don't want it and buy something else. Most of the people that write me with "problems" generally have never used a snowblower before, and have probably never cared for an engine before either. I tell them I bill 50/hr for repairs and its drop off and pickup service only. When I sell the machine it starts and works, and is caught up on all maintenance. I can't guarantee that an old machine won't break, I can only guarantee that nothing is visually broken at the time of sale.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

ou2mame said:


> When I sell the machine it starts and works, and is caught up on all maintenance. I can't guarantee that an old machine won't break, I can only guarantee that nothing is visually broken at the time of sale.


I do the same thing with computers. I give them a 90 day warranty on refurbished PCs; after that, it's billable service. The most common issues are that they didn't purchase the Malwarebytes subscription after their 14 day trial is up, and then they get mousetrapped or scammed. Or they drop it. Or their pet chews the power cord. Or they spill their drink into it...


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## Tseg (Jan 29, 2021)

The older I get the more I think references like “back in the day a handshake was good enough” are urban legends that have existed for hundreds of years. Case in point, back in the 80’s all I heard about (besides politics) when the old relatives gathered and whined to each other was how they don’t build things like they used to. Now in 2021 all I hear about are how wonderful blowers from the 1980’s are.

In the history books you will see there have always been scoundrels. In fact, the origin of the word scoundrel dates back to the 1500’s.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Probably mentioned this earlier in thread. Have had only a couple minor problems to address. a stuck choke , maybe a cable that needed adjustment. usually it is a new operator not knowing how to use machine although I spend a lot of time trying to teach them all the in and outs.

had a guy eat a big piece of firewood that broke something in final drive. this was 8 months after he bought it and he wanted a full refund. he was hot on the phone so I hung up and drove over to his place. That was an interesting in person "conversation"

I told the guy if he had been nice I would have worked out a solution for him. Maybe parts only and/or minimal labor costs but him not being nice.......well a good talking to and.........nada.


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## Preacherman (Dec 20, 2020)

I honestly hate selling anything. 
My suggestion is check your local laws, most states honor the “as is no warranty” listed in an ad and do not require any bill of sale, this is due to the buyer being held responsible if they choose to buy after they read the add-they assume the liability. I don’t always agree with man’s laws as there are many dishonest folks out there motivated by money. 

My experience in Pa, was I sold a racing ATV to a guy with 13 hours on a full rebuilt motor-given all paperwork from engine builder, bill of sale along with title-everything I’ve ever done to it close to 5g’s explained what gas mix ratio it is set up for how it was jetted and if you ride in colder weather it will need changed or if you ride in high elevation it may foul the plug as it will be rich, suggested tips for an air cooled 2 stroke operation-gave bunch of spare jets. He said yeah I know about 2-strokes. My add was as is, no warranty, However I told him if he has any questions he can call me. He test drove it for about 10 minutes loved it and bought it. 3 weeks later he calls me cussing me out he seized it. I asked him how it happened. His response was I fired it up and took off in the woods, rode it hard for two hours and it seized up. I asked him do you remember I told you that the piston is forged and tight tolerance so you must pre warm it up 5-7 minutes minimum or you risk seizure? By the way it was 28 degrees out he never checked jetting, he was inexperienced and should of stuck with a 4 stroke. He actually took me to small claims court, and in fifteen minutes the judge dismissed his case and told him it was a lesson to read everything and learn how to operate what you buy. I mysteriously had a flat tire the next morning, checked video (again he forgot my property is 24 hr taped) I called him back - no answer so me and officer Brandon visited his home with a copy of the video ( he was local). He was given a choice to pay for new tire or be arrested. I received $140 from him and haven’t had an issue since. No one ever wants to assume responsibility as we are lead to believe that means your weak. Actually is means your strong! But truth is as it was said on here somewhere on here we all make mistakes, were all human. None of us can be perfect, we may think we are! 
I’ve never liked sales, I’ve been told I’m to nice and honest to be a sales person, I agreed. I wasn’t always like that!!


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Preacherman said:


> I honestly hate selling anything.
> My suggestion is check your local laws, most states honor the “as is no warranty” listed in an ad and do not require any bill of sale, this is due to the buyer being held responsible if they choose to buy after they read the add-they assume the liability. I don’t always agree with man’s laws as there are many dishonest folks out there motivated by money.
> 
> My experience in Pa, was I sold a racing ATV to a guy with 13 hours on a full rebuilt motor-given all paperwork from engine builder, bill of sale along with title-everything I’ve ever done to it close to 5g’s explained what gas mix ratio it is set up for how it was jetted and if you ride in colder weather it will need changed or if you ride in high elevation it may foul the plug as it will be rich, suggested tips for an air cooled 2 stroke operation-gave bunch of spare jets. He said yeah I know about 2-strokes. My add was as is, no warranty, However I told him if he has any questions he can call me. He test drove it for about 10 minutes loved it and bought it. 3 weeks later he calls me cussing me out he seized it. I asked him how it happened. His response was I fired it up and took off in the woods, rode it hard for two hours and it seized up. I asked him do you remember I told you that the piston is forged and tight tolerance so you must pre warm it up 5-7 minutes minimum or you risk seizure? By the way it was 28 degrees out he never checked jetting, he was inexperienced and should of stuck with a 4 stroke. He actually took me to small claims court, and in fifteen minutes the judge dismissed his case and told him it was a lesson to read everything and learn how to operate what you buy. I mysteriously had a flat tire the next morning, checked video (again he forgot my property is 24 hr taped) I called him back - no answer so me and officer Brandon visited his home with a copy of the video ( he was local). He was given a choice to pay for new tire or be arrested. I received $140 from him and haven’t had an issue since. No one ever wants to assume responsibility as we are lead to believe that means your weak. Actually is means your strong! But truth is as it was said on here somewhere on here we all make mistakes, were all human. None of us can be perfect, we may think we are!
> I’ve never liked sales, I’ve been told I’m to nice and honest to be a sales person, I agreed. I wasn’t always like that!!


It only takes one bad experience to sour you. In my experiences most people are decent.The j e r k s ruin your attitude for people in general.
I try real hard to remember all the good people. Used to do handshake deals for over 50 years. NO MORE. They get a receipt with AS IS WHERE IS with NO WARRANTY. I even verbalize that before taking the moulah.

Better that way for me........oh , we still shake hands. Firm handshake tells me a lot about someone. Usually older guys. These young guys the handshake is usually weak and soft. Unless they are blue collar.


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## ou2mame (Dec 23, 2019)

Tseg said:


> The older I get the more I think references like “back in the day a handshake was good enough” are urban legends that have existed for hundreds of years. Case in point, back in the 80’s all I heard about (besides politics) when the old relatives gathered and whined to each other was how they don’t build things like they used to. Now in 2021 all I hear about are how wonderful blowers from the 1980’s are.
> 
> In the history books you will see there have always been scoundrels. In fact, the origin of the word scoundrel dates back to the 1500’s.


Nah. I know snowblowers at least were built better in the 80s because they are still around today! And the ones built ten years ago are on their way to the dump. And the ones today? Plastic transmissions, thin sheet metal... They won't be around in 5 years. Handshake agreements maybe were a myth, but snowblowers... That's a very real thing lol


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