# New Honda 928 - This has to be a mistake.



## McRockFish

I have a lot of snow blowing to do every storm. Several properties and there are walks and places where I have to nose in and then back out. 

For years with other brand snowblowers I could let off the drive handle and simply push the machine in slowly to snug it tight against a curb, or a paver/railroad tie at the end of a walkway. Then back back out.

If you head into a curb or something similar to that, the first thing to hit is the teeth of the spinning auger blades? Why is Honda the only brand that the bucket does not protect the spinning auger blades? The first thing to make contact is the sharp teeth on the augers and then SNAP goes the sheer pins.

I looked at a bunch of other brands including the Ariens pictured below. Not one has the augers spinning at any point outside the protection of the bucket! This makes no sense on the Honda. A bit dangerous for catching things.

Below put a string across at about 6-8" high across the front of the Honda and an Ariens:









Below a look at the Honda with the Auger teeth extending beyond bucket:









Below a picture of an Ariens - I also checked Toro, Cub Cadet, and others... All had the augers spinning inside the bucket at all places.


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## skutflut

You could make a couple of extensions for the bucket down around the bottom, bolt them on and protect your drive gears.


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## McRockFish

Yes, but why in the world would Honda make a new model that the augers extend past the bucket so I and others would have to modify it? Every other brand I've checked since has the sense to keep the auger blades within the protection of the bucket!

The first day I was out I broke one. The second day I knew this was an issue and tried to not get too close to any curb or such, but I did it again. Bummer.


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## 404

Japanese blower design range from 

no guarding 





to too much.





I guess if a blower eats a person it is not the makers fault.


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## scrappy

We HAd a 924 at my work a new car dealership. Every single time the blower was used (by the sales depart 'tards) it came back to us mechanics with broken shear bolts. 
They finally gave up on it for that reason and the tracks are impossible to maneuver in the tight spots. We have a single stage toro, and never a problem. well except every first snow it won't start due to fuel left in it all summer.


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## skutflut

McRockFish said:


> Yes, but why in the world would Honda make a new model that the augers extend past the bucket so I and others would have to modify it?
> .


The fact is, they did. You should ask Honda about the problem, but in the meantime, I would still rig some sort of extension to keep your augers out of harms way. 

If you break something, I would expect that Honda would try to avoid taking responsibility for warranty work. 

I would imagine that they probably already know the problem exists, and somebody has had their head handed to them, but since you got one, problem or not, you need to do what you can to mitigate the problem until Honda either solves it thru a recall, or does something on a case by case basis.

Have you contacted Honda yet, and if so, what was their reaction?


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## YSHSfan

The augers are designed like that to be able to "eat" the crusty/frozen snow at the EOD area (or places like that) without interfering with the sides of the auger housing.
IMHO it is a supperior design.
:blowerhug:


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## McRockFish

It's got to be a stupid design flaw. Ariens work great at the end of the driveway and they they don't have their auger blades sticking out. And, the Hondas are just sticking out only a 1/4". Just enough to catch the teeth. And. come on!, are you saying because they stick out 1/4" past the bucket, that this is some kind of ingenious design idea only used by Honda on residential blowers?

And yes, I called Honda and when I asked why they had their augers extending past the bucket they said, "That's our design and we aren't changing it". I asked them what the advantage of that could possibly be, and they wouldn't comment further. Let's be reasonable here, there probably is no reason for it and they are probably asking themselves the same question now

And, before somebody asks why I didn't buy an Ariens again, it's because I don't like the auto turn. Prefer posi traction. I won't buy an auto turn.


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## E350

Thanks for the warning with pictures of string line to back it up.


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## nwcove

with all do respect, you should adjust your snow clearing habits. i personally would never intentionally run a blower up against a solid object. as bad as shoveling is, that last 6 inches before a curb, retaining wall, or car bumper, is well worth a few minutes of old school shovel work ! again....jmo


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## nafterclifen

nwcove said:


> with all do respect, you should adjust your snow clearing habits. i personally would never intentionally run a blower up against a solid object. as bad as shoveling is, that last 6 inches before a curb, retaining wall, or car bumper, is well worth a few minutes of old school shovel work ! again....jmo


I do agree with you.

But there still remains the question about why it is the way that it is. If the auger remains completely inside of the housing on all other manufacturers of blowers, except for Honda, then there must be a reason that Honda did it. Right? Either it was a mistake. Probably not likely but possible. Or they designed it that way and if so, they should be able to provide a legitimate reason - not "that's just the way it is."

Are all of the HSS models like this? What about the previous HS models? Knowing these answers might offer some insight.


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## skutflut

nafterclifen said:


> I do agree with you.
> 
> Or they designed it that way and if so, they should be able to provide a legitimate reason - not "that's just the way it is."
> 
> .


There is probably a reason why, but when you call customer support, you will never get through to an engineering type who may have designed, or approved the design of the machine. 

Getting any kind of meaningful answer would require written correspondence, probably quite a bit of it, in order to get through the layers of staff before getting to somebody could (or would) give a useful answer. 

Perhaps [email protected] might provide some comment on this.


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## grabber

it remove the possibility to tilt the blower on his auger box. With my old mastercraft Gold snowblow when i need the greace the gears or work under it, i just tilt it on the auger housing and i have access under the blower easily.


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## SB83

These tilt up nicely and will rest on the flat portion of the bucket but you need to keep a thick piece of cardboard around to spread the load and not beat up the parts when getting it up there. Once on the flat portion, the weight is all on the bucket.


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## Cardo111

Excellent observation and pix showing the issue. This would concern me as well, even though most of the time it will not present an issue those times when you really want to get close to something you are going in auger first. This is a design flaw especially on such a high end machine at this price point modifications to prevent damage to the unit should not be necessary. I would just be careful with it and be happy that you uncovered the issue so you can prevent damaging it. The old school blowers from Ariens and others before there were any real safety standards, had this type of design but much more protrusion. Good luck with your otherwise very good machine.


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## SnowG

Some valid concerns have been raised but this may be a matter of design philosophy. Don't forget Honda also uses rear skids and has an ice scraping position. They cater to the person who wants to get down and dirty with the auger. Perhaps they view it as a "wear item" that will be replaced when needed, like skids but more $.


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## fake_usa

HS928WA housing sides extend past the auger's teeth by what looks like approx1/4". Also the top of the housing on the HS sweeps back which allows snow higher then the top of the housing to fall down into the spinning augers. 
The HSS bucket design tends to tunnel under snow higher then the housing, allowing snow to fall behind the housing. Maybe extending the augers out past the new housing was to help prevent this type of situation.


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## nZone

Something is different doesn't make it design flaw. Honda doesn't tell you the reason because it's a trade secret. I think it is a brilliant idea having the auger extends out. I assume the leading auger helps reduce wheels losing grip or track climbing the snow pile.


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## wdb

nwcove said:


> with all do respect, you should adjust your snow clearing habits. i personally would never intentionally run a blower up against a solid object. as bad as shoveling is, that last 6 inches before a curb, retaining wall, or car bumper, is well worth a few minutes of old school shovel work ! again....jmo


^^^ This. Moral of story: stop driving into stuff with your snowblower. 

Unlike you I do not have the good fortune of every surface being dead vertical and dead flat. I have trees, rocks, wood piles, and other crooked surfaces around which snow collects and needs removal. My old BearCat had a clutch and when the augers stopped I'd back up and they'd start again. I got into the habit of driving forward until the augers hit stuff. No problem for the clutch-driven augers on my old machine, but a pin-breaking certainty on the new one.

Clif notes: I broke a bunch of shear pins the first time out with the Honda, not once because the augers stick out 1/4" but because I ran the augers into stuff. I changed my habits.


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## tdipaul

Either style will make contact with a rogue protruding stone or object. It helps to know where they are in the work area. Obviously I didn't!


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## nafterclifen

3macs1 said:


> Why do you think they owe anyone an explanation for their design and who are we to question it even us with engineering backgrounds.


You must have misinterpreted my post. I never said that they owe anyone an explanation. But if Honda, or any manufacturer, is asked a question about their product then they should be able to provide an answer. What's wrong with being an educated consumer? Asking questions doesn't mean you are challenging the engineering department of a company.

If I called Honda and asked them why their augers extend past the bucket, and they just said "that's our design and we aren't changing it," I wouldn't be happy.


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## UNDERTAKER

The old school TORO'S. have the blades hanging out side of the bucket.:tongue4::tongue4:


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## jrom

McRockFish said:


> ...If you head into a curb or something similar...


Well, there is another way to look at this. You now have valuable information on why not to buy a new HSS Honda...and you can use that information on judging other outdoor power equipment...you can't run squarely into curbs and you can't process rocks without some form of penalty.

Unfortunately, you probably should sell off the new Honda and it looks like you'll have to invest in an industrial piece of equipage.

You have a right to speak your mind about a product you bought and we have a right to rebuttal.

As a close friend of mine – who was in the special forces in the Nam – once said..."Sorry about that, _Việt Nam_" and I mean that with all due respect to the people of Viet Nam...and this is no tie-in to _The Big Lebowski_. 

*And what I really mean about that line above is I'm sorry you invested into something that didn't turn out like you thought it should...but you've got to move on.


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## mobiledynamics

I don't have a horse in this race, but any reason why you can't use the blower and get ~close to the curb~. Once your cut is close, then use your machine and make a run parallel to the curb. 

I've always down it like this when needed, and then the skids are the sacrifical lamb to let you know when you are running it as tight as you want against the curb


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## sscotsman

jrom said:


> You have a right to speak your mind about a product you bought and we have a right to rebuttal.


yes, you do have a right to a rebuttal..but you dont have a right to a rude, snarky and sarcastic rebuttal that insults the OP.

jrom, im not referring to you personally..you didnt do that.

But I did just delete three quite unnecessarily rude rebuttals from this thread..you can debate, but keep it polite, and keep it to the features of the snowblower, not the personality/intelligence/opinion of forum members.

thanks,
Scot


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## YSHSfan

If I could afford it, I would love to have one of this machines for the special reason the the augers are partially outside the housing.


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## sscotsman

hsblowersfan said:


> If I could afford it, I would love to have one of this machines for the special reason the the augers are partially outside the housing.



yes, but..those do have the "side shields" which is basically the same thing as having the bucket sides extended out..so the augers dont really stick out beyond the side housing, which is what is being discussed here..
pretty amazing machines though! 

Scot


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## sscotsman

For the ultimate in "no side protection" I have always thought these were pretty amazing, and scary!










Made by Gravely.
among Gravely fans/collectors, these are known as "dog eaters"! :icon_smile_shock:

Scot


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## Keeshonden

I have been watching this post and thought I would chime in. That bucket design has been like that for years. 
My 9/28 is 10 years old and the very first snow storm I went straight into my chain link fence and I tried to get as close as my MTD....bad move...the blower walked up the 4 ft fence until the 2 shear pins broke. So here I was with the blower halfway up the fence and the 2 handles buried in the grass, funny now but not then. 
Anyway lesson learned...never did that again. For all the bad designs this blower has, transmission gearbox included, I would sell my motorcycle to get another Honda 9/28. Mine has blown over 500- sq ft every snowstorm
for the last 10 years...absolute beast.

Just my .02


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## jrom

sscotsman said:


> For the ultimate in "no side protection" I have always thought these were pretty amazing, and scary!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Made by Gravely.
> among Gravely fans/collectors, these are known as "dog eaters"! :icon_smile_shock:
> 
> Scot


Reminds me of my dad's '74 Ford F-350 with a lift kit, mud tires and plow package. Whenever I would use that truck to pick something up for him on rural, very narrow roads with no shoulders, I'd shout out "Look out everyone, I'm coming through!"


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## Kiss4aFrog

If Honda did it, it was done for a reason. As far as calling them it's usually hard enough trying to get any Mfgrs customer service to tell you the correct part you need or anything at all about the China engine let alone anything they may have engineered to try to beat the competition.

IMHO, Just use a shovel for the close work and or add some side extensions and problem solved. There's always Toro, Yamaha or Husky to consider too.


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## jrom

mobiledynamics said:


> ...any reason why you can't use the blower and get ~close to the curb~. Once your cut is close, then use your machine and make a run parallel to the curb...the skids are the sacrifical lamb to let you know when you are running it as tight as you want against the curb


Without asking McRockFish, I have a feeling he's pretty busy doing multiple properties and so it can be annoying to have to monitor how close you can come up to a curb. For most of us, we have to be aware, or else we'll run into...curbs, rocks (big rocks) :redface:, car bumpers, car doors  , logs, chain link fences , safety chains on trailers :redface:, trailer tongues buried in deep snow :redface: , tarps that you swear were not there in the Fall :redface: , etc.


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## jrom

sscotsman said:


> yes, you do have a right to a rebuttal..but you dont have a right to a rude, snarky and sarcastic rebuttal that insults the OP.


Right on, and noted.


sscotsman said:


> ...and keep it to the features of the snowblower...


 Sorry about that.


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## bwdbrn1

I am really sorry that you have not been pleased with every feature or aspect of your Hondas. Clearly, they are not the machine for you.

I know from your previous posts that you have read the owner's manual and are very familiar with what it says. This excerpt is from page 2 of the owner's manual, and seems to fit the situation you have encountered with the auger coming into contact with a curb.

Of course, it is not practical or possible to warn you about all the 
hazards associated with operating or maintaining a snow blower. You 
must use your own good judgment. 


It sounds like your good judgment has deemed this particular design feature is not a good one for your application since it involves the hazard of coming into contact with a curb.

Your situation may indeed apply to other potential buyers of Honda snowblowers, so we are glad that you brought it to everyone's attention so that others may take what they wish from your report and apply your first hand observations to their own situation. However, we do not know all of the particulars pertaining to how the property you used it on is laid out, or all of the details of how you came to realize that this feature was not a good one for you.

While you may argue that the design feature you describe may be a mistake for you and may not be good one for your particular application, your experience may not in fact apply to everyone and no way stands alone to say that the design is without merit and should be reconfigured. I live in a rural area, and have no curbs, so the fact that the augers extend beyond the edges of the auger housing may actually be of some benefit to someone like myself living in an area that can get quite a lot of snow. Not having one, and not having used one other than in a controlled demonstration, I don't know and can't say with absolute certainty, but because of your report here I would definitely have to take all of the points into consideration if I were in the market for one.

I hope you can come to some solution that fits all of your needs. Whether that be modifying the way you use this Honda or to find a machine of a different brand, and hope then that you will report again on your findings from your experience.


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## sscotsman

Kiss4aFrog said:


> If Honda did it, it was done for a reason.


Perhaps..but what *is* that reason? no one seems to know.

Rockfish has made the point that he thinks its a bad design choice..noted.
but no one has a logical reason for why it _should_ be that way.
We have negatives for the design, but no positives.

I can see only two posibilities:

1. It was done deliberately for a reason..but we dont know what the reason is.
2. it was actually a mistake, and shouldn't have been designed that way.

right now, both options are only opinions, neither is a confirmed fact.

Hold on!  we do have one stated reason in this thread for a deliberate design choice:



hsblowersfan said:


> The augers are designed like that to be able to "eat" the crusty/frozen snow at the EOD area (or places like that) without interfering with the sides of the auger housing.
> IMHO it is a supperior design.
> :blowerhug:


But I dont understand it..I dont understand what: "without interfering with the sides of the auger housing." means..HSblowerfan, can you elaborate?
How does the augers sticking out half an inch from the bucket sides make any difference? 

With this Honda design, the augers eat in the first half an inch, without "resistance" from the bucket sides..but after that first half-inch the bucket sides do make contact, same as any other bucket..then, for the remaining 6-feet into the snow bank, minus the first half inch, its exactly the same as any other bucket..im not getting the advantage.

Scot


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## ELaw

Wow... so far the only solutions to the OP's issue I'm seeing in this thread are "be more careful" and "get a different snowblower".

There's a third option that would not be difficult: modify the machine!

Get a couple of pieces of sheet metal or thin (1/8") bar stock 1.5" or 2" wide and maybe a foot tall. Drill some holes in the right places, and bolt them to the sides of the housing so they stick out the front about 1/2". Bam... now you have guards that allow you to use the machine the way you want.


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## Bob E

My speculation would be that having the auger out front of the bucket breaks up the snow first making it easier to then push the bucket through rather than having to push the bucket through first before the auger can do anything. It would probably be most noticeable in hard packed old snow.
Also I don't believe deliberately pushing any snowblower into curbs, railroad ties, or other obstacles is such a good idea...


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## Kiss4aFrog

skutflut said:


> You could make a couple of extensions for the bucket down around the bottom, bolt them on and protect your drive gears.



That was the very first suggestion (post #2) to the issue.

That third option has been presented to the OP in previous pages as that would solve his issue of running it up against curbs, timbers, ...


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## jrom

ELaw said:


> Wow... so far the only solutions to the OP's issue I'm seeing in this thread are "be more careful" and "get a different snowblower".
> 
> There's a third option that would not be difficult: modify the machine!


I agree, but you usually don't have to do this with a new machine.

McRockFishs' posts' have been pretty aggressively in the "What is this!!, Honda's Products are not what they should be!!", not "What I _*expect *_them to be!" category. 

There is a difference.


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## sscotsman

jrom said:


> McRockFishs' posts' have been pretty aggressively in the "What is this!!, Honda's Products are not what they should be!!", not "What I _*expect *_them to be!" category.
> 
> There is a difference.


yeah, that is true..I think he has made his point..perhaps over-made it.
but IMO he has a legit complaint..this does seem like a design flaw to me too.
I wouldn't be happy about it if I paid the big-bucks for a new Honda. I would expect better too. 

Scot


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## sscotsman

Bob E said:


> My speculation would be that having the auger out front of the bucket breaks up the snow first making it easier to then push the bucket through rather than having to push the bucket through first before the auger can do anything.


Maybe..that could be the reason..but im still not seeing how that is a real thing that actually does anything meaningful.

because it would only break down the first half-inch of snow before the bucket sides make contact in the traditional manner..I dont see how that half-inch can be a measurable advantage, enough to make it a deliberate design choice.

and the bucket sides offer no meaningful friction to begin with..they are basically knives slicing through snow..blunt knives yes, not super-sharp, but they are thin enough that the power of the snowblower pushes them right in easily..

Imagine a snowblower with *no* augers at all, and no impeller or gearbox..just an open empty bucket...start it up (engine and wheels still work normally) and drive it into a snow bank..the sides of the bucket will slide right in, no problem..they offer so little resistance I have trouble imagining that deliberate designs are created to minimize that minuscule friction..but maybe it is factored in..

Based on this whole thread, I still cant see it being anything other than a mistake, an oversight..perhaps slightly larger augers mated to a bucket not originally designed for them, when creating a new model. Thats just a guess though. 

Scot


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## Bob E

I'm not sure how meaningful of an improvement it could make (never used one with the auger sticking out), but the situation would continue past the first half inch, as long as there is still snow in front of the blower...


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## Keeshonden

If it's a design flaw they have been doing it wrong for the last 13-16 years!!! This is not a new issue with these Hondas.


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## AriensPro1128

Scot,

Do you really think Honda probably spent millions of dollars and a couple of years and the augers are a mistake or oversight. They expanded the plant to manufacture them here. Your Ariens bias is showing and that comes form an Ariens owner.

Richard


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## sscotsman

AriensPro1128 said:


> Scot,
> 
> Do you really think Honda probably spent millions of dollars and a couple of years and the augers are a mistake or oversight. They expanded the plant to manufacture them here. Your Ariens bias is showing and that comes form an Ariens owner.
> 
> Richard


This has absolutely nothing to do with Ariens..I like Honda, I respect them greatly, the best car I ever owned was a 1997 Civic, made in Ohio, my first new car..loved it.

I have no dog in this fight, I'm just an outside observer..and yes, it could very easily be a mistake or an oversight..Honda didn't necessarily spend millions of dollars on *this* exact auger/ bucket combibation..they could easily be mis-matched pre-existing parts.

And I don't appreciate the assumption that I must be biased just because I happen to own a couple of 45 year old Ariens..which has absolutely nothing to do with talking about modern Hondas..before this thread, I have never once said a single negative thing about Honda ever, in my life, and I have barely said it here..

In fact, 99.9% of the time when I mention Honda snowblowers its to praise them..I have said hundreds of times here: "top three..Honda, Ariens, Toro" ..(and I always say it that way, because I mean it in that order.) so your accusation of bias has no basis in reality!  im simply discussing a puzzling design choice, nothing more.

Scot


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## SnowG

If the snow bank is solidified the dynamic changes. The auger housing would not penetrate as far and the serrated edges contact would be more help.


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## nZone

Honda should dedicate a chapter in the owner manual titled "design transparency".


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## AesonVirus

I doubt it's a flaw because I _assume_ all design "features" are thought and planned out.

I will admit though, I hadn't noticed it on my machine until I saw this thread. 
I like to get as close as I can to the garage doors and now that I know this, I'll be sure to not get too close when I approach the edges of the house and other obstacles.


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## murf

still got mine ordered, very interesting article here, now im going to order me some of these !!
https://discountsnowstakes.com/?gclid=CP6MgL63kMsCFYNkhgod7WwAHQ


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## foggysail

sscotsman said:


> For the ultimate in "no side protection" I have always thought these were pretty amazing, and scary!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Made by Gravely.
> among Gravely fans/collectors, these are known as "dog eaters"! :icon_smile_shock:
> 
> Scot


I OWNED A PIECE OF CRAP Gravely!!! YOur picture brought back horrible memories. Older guys around here remember the Blizzard of 78, my Gravely pushed though 4' snow drifts that covered our driveway. I even had the 4' plow blade (it sucked, good only in 1-2" of snow), a brush cutter attachment with 6-7" EXPOSED teeth that could easily cut off an ankle. SCARY!

No electric start! The most curious thing about that pig is it had a fan blowing onto the engine to keep it cool. Don't recall all the details but somehow the fan broke when my neighbor had borrowed it for his driveway. Result.....goodbye engine!!! HORRIBLE MEMORIES!!!!

How I came to be the owner of that pig..........I purchased a used Sears machine which was also a dog. My boss at the time owned the Gravely which he could not get to run. I thought it might be a good time to swap with him when he was praising the Sears unit I owned. Anyway, the Gravely had a broken pin that locked a shaft attached to the magneto so I was able to get it running.

That same 78 storm where the Gravely enjoyed a pieceful death, my boss's Sears machine threw a connecting rod.


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## skutflut

SnowG said:


> If the snow bank is solidified the dynamic changes. The auger housing would not penetrate as far and the serrated edges contact would be more help.


I dunno about that. If the snowbank is solid, the auger will get what right inf front, but since the auger does not extend as wide as the bucket sides, they wont clear that 1 inch that the bucket sides will hang up on. This would be an interesting test, and I would like to see the film at 11:00.


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## skutflut

foggysail said:


> Result.....goodbye engine!!! HORRIBLE MEMORIES!!!!


I agree with you. I had to operate one of those things in 1970 or so, and it was a challenge. Total pig to start, and if I remember, by the time I got it going, I was too pooped to blow snow.


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## HSSdude

sscotsman said:


> Perhaps..but what *is* that reason? no one seems to know.
> 
> Rockfish has made the point that he thinks its a bad design choice..noted.
> but no one has a logical reason for why it _should_ be that way.
> We have negatives for the design, but no positives.
> 
> I can see only two posibilities:
> 
> 1. It was done deliberately for a reason..but we dont know what the reason is.
> 2. it was actually a mistake, and shouldn't have been designed that way.
> 
> right now, both options are only opinions, neither is a confirmed fact.
> 
> Hold on!  we do have one stated reason in this thread for a deliberate design choice:
> 
> "The augers are designed like that to be able to "eat" the crusty/frozen snow at the EOD area (or places like that) without interfering with the sides of the auger housing.
> IMHO it is a supperior design."
> 
> But I dont understand it..I dont understand what: "without interfering with the sides of the auger housing." means..HSblowerfan, can you elaborate?
> How does the augers sticking out half an inch from the bucket sides make any difference?
> 
> With this Honda design, the augers eat in the first half an inch, without "resistance" from the bucket sides..but after that first half-inch the bucket sides do make contact, same as any other bucket..then, for the remaining 6-feet into the snow bank, minus the first half inch, its exactly the same as any other bucket..im not getting the advantage.
> 
> Scot


Here is some food for thought on this discussion. Sscotsman has done a good job pointing out what possible claims have been made for the actual purpose for the auger sticking out beyond the housing. Was it a design mistake or was this intended?

First lets look at this: ANSI/OPEI standard B71.3-2014 Safety Standards for Snow Throwers. Now, each major manufacturer (Honda, Ariens, Toro, Huski, ect.) is a voluntary member of the OPEI (outdoor power equipment institute) and as such has agreed to abide by the American National Standards for Safety. That means that everything inside this standard must be verified.

So lets look at section 6.3.1 of the ANSI standard, it states:

6.3 Collector and/or impeller housing
6.3.1 The sides shall cover the extremities of the collector/impeller except as shown in figure 5.









So, the assumption that this portion of the design was overlooked by Honda and never considered can be proven false with a very high level of certainty. This section of the ANSI std must have been checked in order for Honda to meet their obligation to comply with ANSI. So that means an engineer looked at it and made sure the level of protrusion did not exceed this specified limit. 

Another question can be asked here. Why would the Standard that is created by a committee of the top power equipment brand manufacturers (OPEI) want to consider allowing the auger to protrude in their safety std? Would it not be more safe to require all manufacturers to cover the auger completely? I mean if they are specifying a limit to the protrusion then it must be considered a safety concern. 

Then why would any particular manufacturers want to keep a permitted amount of protrusion beyond the housing? That is the critical question. So based on this line of thinking you can accurately say that this design is done with intent and not negligence and that Sscotsmann's question about if this was a mistake can be put to bed. 

So, that narrows us down to the, why did they do they do it? That question is much more difficult to answer.

You can start by thinking about if you had to design a snow blower. Would you only consider one type of condition to blow snow in, such as your particular driveway. The answer is no, so when you think about all the markets that this snowblower is sold in (EU, US, Canada) you have to consider what makes the most sense for overall toughness and quality in all conditions. EU people may be blowing snow on cobblestones, West Coast US may be blowing light snow, East Coast US may be blowing wet snow or snow plowed piles off of side walks. This leads to many considerations in overall design.

So that being said, I tend to agree with hsblowerfan about the intent of this design. With very hard or crusty snow, even ice, you will have better ability to break it up if your auger protrudes beyond the guards. Sure you can say well after 1/4 inch the side guard will stop you, but from my experience this design is best used to break up ice and extremely hard pack plow piles. Sure it jerks the machine around severely when the teeth catch, but it pulls down chunks at a time and I get through the snow bank. This is not as easily done with other brand machines and i have used them all. But, yes i do think this design creates caveats in other areas such as if you run your machine into concrete curbs you will break a shear pin. Different machines are tailored to different markets and consumers and each requires some learning curve to use efficiently.


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## sscotsman

very interesting..thanks HSSdude!
yeah, it must just come down to having the augers protude slightly beyond the bucket does result in a small advantage in breaking up crusty snow and eating into snow banks..

how much of an advantage is still open to debate..but its *some* advantage apparantly, and that was enough for Honda to go with the design.

It does create the disadvantage of having the spinning augers potentially hit "non-snow" objects before the bucket sides though! your car, your garage, etc..Does that disadvantage outweigh the gain? IMO, no, it does not..IMO, having the protruding augers results in no real gain at all, I would prefer the "safety" factor of having the augers "behind" the bucket..but, im not a Honda engineer! 

That must be the resolution of this debate then..we can say "it was done for a reason", and the reason has to be "to create an advantage when digging into snow"...

I still say its a bad idea!  IMO the disadvantage strongly outweighs the advantage..but that's beside the point..

thanks everyone!

Scot


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## murf

opcorn:


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## sscotsman

murf said:


> opcorn:


I think you walked into the theater when the end credits were rolling! 

Scot


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## cpchriste

So, might this "feature" be related to why Hondas have a shear-pin-eater reputation?
Or do they design pins that are weaker than average?


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## E350

*cpchriste*: IMHO, that reputation is deserved. I go through at least four every 3-4 hour session. They are 8.8 grade ~1/4" hex head bolts. The Ariens ST1032 shear pins are bigger diameter, longer and are "gold" colored although I doubt they are hardened. I have never broken a shear pin on the ST1032, which reminds me that I need to take them out and see if the augers are rusted to the shaft instead of spinning on the shaft as designed...


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## sscotsman

cpchriste said:


> So, might this "feature" be related to why Hondas have a shear-pin-eater reputation?
> Or do they design pins that are weaker than average?


Seems unlikely..unless you hit a "non-snow" object, that could break a pin..but in "normal" use, snow only, I don't see how this "feature" could cause any unusual pin breakage..

But I still don't understand how pins break in "normal" use anyway, or how some machines are "shear pin eaters"..I believe it happens! I'm not blaming the owner/operator..I just don't understand *why* it happens..

I have been using my '71 Ariens for 7 winters now, in the Western NY lake-effect belt..have never once broken a pin..so this "shear pin eater" phenomenon is very mysterious to me..

Scot


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## wdb

sscotsman said:


> Seems unlikely..unless you hit a "non-snow" object, that could break a pin..but in "normal" use, snow only, I don't see how this "feature" could cause any unusual pin breakage..
> 
> But I still don't understand how pins break in "normal" use anyway, or how some machines are "shear pin eaters"..I believe it happens! I'm not blaming the owner/operator..I just don't understand *why* it happens..
> 
> I have been using my '71 Ariens for 7 winters now, in the Western NY lake-effect belt..have never once broken a pin..so this "shear pin eater" phenomenon is very mysterious to me..
> 
> Scot


I went from a Crary BearCat (later model of the Bob-Cat line) to a Yammie YS-828 to a Honda 928. BearCat had an auger clutch so no shear pins to worry about. Yammie never broke one but I only used it for a year. The Honda on the other hand... ...let's just say I found a great deal on Amazon for a pack of 20. It's mostly been for running into stuff, a bad habit I got into with the BearCat. But there have been one or two times when I thought "what the heck did I hit?" They seem to break pretty easily.


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## E350

wdb said:


> The Honda on the other hand... ...let's just say I found a great deal on Amazon [_Ebay for me, then just grade 8.8 metric hex heads at the hardware store_] for a pack of 20. It's mostly been for running into stuff, a bad habit I got into with the BearCat. But there have been one or two times when I thought "what the heck did I hit?" They seem to break pretty easily.


*wdb*: Copy that. 

*sscotsman*: Try blowing a dirt driveway with granite "golfballs" pushed up by frost heave or thrown in by the Caltrans blowers or just being a little analy compulsive about scraping close to the ground because of the incline and wanting good traction to drive uphill. And, finally, being a newbie to this whole snowblower thing...


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## YSHSfan

IMHO I think the fact that shear pins on Hondas break easier than other brand snowblower is to protect its gearbox, as many of you may have noticed that they do not have what I would call a "Heavy Duty Gearbox Housing". Honda auger shearpins are perhaps the easiest pins to replace and I rather replace 20 of them and not a gearbox. A big part of the problem might be hitting objects unintensionally but also not having the shear pins properly tight (I've found a few augers with the shear pin holes really elongated and I think that this is due to the shear pins being left loose and the auger will act as a bolt cutter when the blower is operating).

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I think.


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## E350

hsblowersfan: Thank you for the elongated shear pin hole warning. And copy that on the likely gearbox protection design... Usually the "weakest link" in a design is intended to be sacrificial.


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## rosco61

*shear pins.*

Police up your Yard/driveway. It's not a stone/curbstone thrower. 
They throw snow. 
Like a aircraft taxiway FOD=Foreign Object Damage walk, look for crap in your way before you run over it with a blower. I like everyone else I'm sure ran over door mats/chains for the dog, stones,newspapers, and other things I can't think of now. It's much less painful to do it before you eat something. I used to un-jam that stuff in the cold snowy driveway. Now that I'm a just a hair smarter I have someplace warm to perform repairs.


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## wdb

I'm not leaving them loose. And yes they are pretty easy to replace; the worst part by far is taking the gloves off and kneeling in the snow. I'm not complaining, just observing. 

As for prewalking the driveway looking for obstacles before blowing the snow? Uhm, no thanks.


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## SnowG

wdb said:


> I'm not leaving them loose. And yes they are pretty easy to replace; the worst part by far is taking the gloves off and kneeling in the snow. I'm not complaining, just observing.
> 
> As for prewalking the driveway looking for obstacles before blowing the snow? Uhm, no thanks.


I walk the driveway just before each storm to make sure it's clear of loose rocks and other objects. If a branch blows down during the storm I can usually spot that, and stop to pull it out so I don't run over any twigs sticking up through the snow. 

My driveway is 300 feet and I've only replaced a shear pin once in over 20 years. 

Can't understand why you think that's too much trouble, compared with kneeling to replace a pin in the cold wet conditions.


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## YSHSfan

SnowG said:


> I walk the driveway just before each storm to make sure it's clear of loose rocks and other objects. If a branch blows down during the storm I can usually spot that, and stop to pull it out so I don't run over any twigs sticking up through the snow.
> 
> My driveway is 300 feet and I've only replaced a shear pin once in over 20 years.


I knew I read of a few Honda owners that had replaced very few shear pins in many many years. Thanks for sharing it.


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## NH Deep in Snow

This thread has been quiet for awhile, but I appreciated finding it. I have a 2008 Toro 1128 OPE that has worked fine for me. I have had my eye on a Honda 928, but never got serious because they had to be manhandled thru turns. Now they have added freewheel levers and I am considering buying one for this winter if I can get a reasonable trade-in on my Toro (same local store sells both brands, plus Ariens). 

This thread alerted me to look carefully at the housing/auger issue. I have a two foot high wood retaining wall where the turn-around area of my driveway extends into a hillside. With my Toro I run down one side with my housing next to the wall, into the corner, then run down the other side, into the same corner. When the snow is deep I usually don't actually hit the wall with my housing, but for less than one foot snow falls I do come up against the wall, after I have let off the power but with the blower momentum still carrying it forward and with the auger still powered. 

With the Toro I have never had a problem when I come up against the wall, but it looks like I could have a big problem with the Honda.


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## jbdesigns

the shear pins on my new Honda HSS928AT are not the bolts that are being described so far. Honda changed them to pin held in place with a small cotter pin. the main pin has a rounded head just like a rivet, and the other end is a washer and a cotter pin through a hole in the main pin and then of course bent to prevent it from falling out. 

better? who knows yet. i am sure there is a bolt size that would fit the hole. i will have to look at Honda for how much these exact replacement pins are. maybe they are "cheap" or cheaper than before. 

just thought this was interesting for the honda owners or future honda owners.


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## taxihacker

McRockFish said:


> I have a lot of snow blowing to do every storm. Several properties and there are walks and places where I have to nose in and then back out.
> 
> For years with other brand snowblowers I could let off the drive handle and simply push the machine in slowly to snug it tight against a curb, or a paver/railroad tie at the end of a walkway. Then back back out.
> 
> If you head into a curb or something similar to that, the first thing to hit is the teeth of the spinning auger blades? Why is Honda the only brand that the bucket does not protect the spinning auger blades? The first thing to make contact is the sharp teeth on the augers and then SNAP goes the sheer pins.
> 
> I looked at a bunch of other brands including the Ariens pictured below. Not one has the augers spinning at any point outside the protection of the bucket! This makes no sense on the Honda. A bit dangerous for catching things.
> 
> Below put a string across at about 6-8" high across the front of the Honda and an Ariens:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below a look at the Honda with the Auger teeth extending beyond bucket:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below a picture of an Ariens - I also checked Toro, Cub Cadet, and others... All had the augers spinning inside the bucket at all places.


How did the new HSS928ATD perform any clogging issues I read a lot of reviews it seems underpowered and clogs a lot??in wet heavy snow??


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## tabora

For what it's worth, my new HSS1332ATD Serial Number SAFA-10048xx DOES NOT have teeth protruding beyond the bucket, so perhaps Honda made modifications based on the feedback? I'm glad this is the case, since I'm used to running my old HS80 right up to the granite walls and steps without hitting them. I took an old sheet of plywood today and placed it against a wall to make a confirmation test and I ran up against it a couple of times; not even a scratch.


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## CalgaryPT

tabora said:


> For what it's worth, my new HSS1332ATD Serial Number SAFA-10048xx DOES NOT have teeth protruding beyond the bucket, so perhaps Honda made modifications based on the feedback? I'm glad this is the case, since I'm used to running my old HS80 right up to the granite walls and steps without hitting them. I took an old sheet of plywood today and placed it against a wall to make a confirmation test and I ran up against it a couple of times; not even a scratch.


Wow, you have my respect. I don't have the depth perception to run so close to anything, let alone granite. My Spidey sense tells me granite and augers don't get along well. Heck, in Alberta we don't even let our Hondas play together with sandstone or concrete. 

I have a plastic shovel that sacrifices itself in these cases. Every season-end or two I respectfully throw them away. My augers and I have a drink in their memory and thank them for their service.


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## highlight

skutflut said:


> I dunno about that. If the snowbank is solid, the auger will get what right inf front, but since the auger does not extend as wide as the bucket sides, they wont clear that 1 inch that the bucket sides will hang up on. This would be an interesting test, and I would like to see the film at 11:00.


I'm just reading this now after just coming indoors from blowing snow and posting my issue about the chute clogging. Thats another issue but regarding this issue about the auger extending out past the bucket I can tell you this helps the Honda eat through rock solid banks of snow. These banks typically have various solid chunks of ice in them so the augers chew this first before the bucket sides dig in to the bank. I know the auger is less then the width of the bucket but it chews it up good enough and loosens the sides enough for the bucket to just go through. It really does make a difference. My neighbor who didn't have a Honda was jamming his blower back and forth into the bank blowing a little bit of snow/ice each time while my blower was going through like butter! The trade off however is what tthe OP has said, the auger will catch on fences, curbs etc if you bring the housing up flush to said items so again it boils down to modifying your technique. Except for my chute clogging issue I do like the reliability and snow clearing ability of my Honda HSS928.


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