# Honda HS55 - Smokes at startup.



## JM Hruby (Apr 12, 2019)

Hey everyone, have read this forum over the years and found some helpful info. First post, that I couldn't find an existnig answer for.

I have a 1985 vintage Honda HS55 with the GX140 engine. This blower belonged to my father, he bought it new in 85 and he used it until they moved to a townhome last year. It was somewhat neglected because for the last 20 years he's been going south for the winter so it only saw occasional use. Dad had a small driveway, so even though the machine is is 35 years old, it's in very good condition. When I got it, the carb was a mess and he had been running it on half choke because he never heard that gas goes bad....

Anyway, I put on a new carb and did some other maintenance and the machine runs great. Oil has been changed, I have always run Mobil 1 10-30 in snowblowers so I see no reason to change now. The machine has good power, all functions work. Except...

On cold startup, she blows oil smoke like a cheap cigar for the first 3 minutes until she warms up. Here's a picture.










After it warms up, the machine doesn't smoke at all. Here's a picture after 3 minutes of running at a fast idle. No visible smoke. 










Oil consumption is minimal. I probably add a few ounces of oil per year of use, so it doesn't actively burn oil during use, or at least not very much. The machine still throws well and has good power.

So what's going on here? Why is it burning off oil when cold started? 

I should note that I'm a pretty decent small engine mechanic, but I can't think of what's going on here. My ideas:

- Rings going bad? But if so, why just smoke at startup? I haven't seen many engines that need rings but warm up enough to overcome the problem, usually, when rings are shot, they are shot and no amount of running the engine changes that. Also, I'd expect if rings were so bad that the engine smokes like it does, it would be burning a lot of oil, which is not the case. Unless this issue is particular to Hondas and this is the telltale rings bad sign...

I have a compression tester, but I can't find any PSI specs for a GX140. What SHOULD it be testing at? 

- Is there some passage that is blocked that is holding back oil and then letting it leak into the cylinder when the machine is shut off? 

Can anyone tell me what's going on with this machine? 

Honestly, even if it's rings, this thing is in such good shape, I'd rebuild her. But I don't want to tear it down until I really know what the problem is. Ideas please.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Throw some Seafoam in the tank for a few fill-ups and see if that doesn't help. If it doesn't, then I would suspect a oil ring issue that ceases when the engine gets warmer, closing up tolerances, or a ring is sticking and maybe the Seafoam will clean it up. It might serve as a general tonic, as well.


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 7, 2016)

Rooskie said:


> Throw some Seafoam in the tank for a few fill-ups and see if that doesn't help. If it doesn't, then I would suspect a oil ring issue that ceases when the engine gets warmer, closing up tolerances, or a ring is sticking and maybe the Seafoam will clean it up. It might serve as a general tonic, as well.


I was kind of thinking the same thing. But I have had mixed results with the stuff. I've heard guys say the stuff is so much magic it can stop dieseling, and other say it is junk. Rings do sound like a guilty party, but your logic about why it doesn't smoke after a few mins is good as well.

Wait for a few more posters here, and maybe check out donyboy73 on YouTube. He has great small engine videos.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I'd grab the bottle of Seafoam and read the instructions. It used to be you could use seafoam in the oil too. Might want to toss a couple ounces into the oil in case it is a stuck (carboned) ring as that might help to free it up. It's safe to use the machine with the Seafoam in there and you'd want to run it a few hours before changing out the oil.

If it's the rings I can see where they aren't stuck but just worn and it takes a couple minutes for it to warm up and the tolerances to close up.
.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Somewhat common problem with old Hondas. This machine is about 35 years old. When cold , oil is getting by ring ( correct if wrong ) when warmed up the ring seals and prevents oil thru. 

I repair Hondas as a sideline hobby and just tell anxious owners to leave it alone as the cost is not worth it IMO. These machines are not worth that much.

I would also check oil and smell for gas. older Hondas are notorious gas bleed overs if gas valve is left on all the time. The float doesnt shut off gas completely or the needle is worn. 

For fun I would rebuild. I'm rebuilding a GX270 right now. Got the whole kit from Everest parts LLC on Amazon fairly cheap. Cant remember cost. You get the piston , rod , rings , gaskets etc. I have bought many parts from Everest and very happy .They ship PRIORITY mail 2days usually.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

A leaking worn valve guide can do that. Once it warms up within a few minutes, it doesn't smoke as much or stops smoking.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

ST1100A said:


> A leaking worn valve guide can do that. Once it warms up within a few minutes, it doesn't smoke as much or stops smoking.


Yes, that is a valid point. Every Crown Vic I've ever owned has done that with the same kind of symptoms.


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## arienskids (Jan 26, 2018)

I would try valve seals first, should be pretty simple to do and you might be able to do it without pulling the head if your skilled


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

arienskids said:


> I would try valve seals first, should be pretty simple to do and you might be able to do it without pulling the head if your skilled


The 'feed a bit of rope thru the sparkplug hole' gambit? I was always too scared to try that one.


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## arienskids (Jan 26, 2018)

I’ve never had issues doing it. If not it’s not hard to pull the head on a Honda anyways


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

That is one of the common things with the older Honda GX engines was a worn valve guide.
The piston rings far outlasted the guides on them.
You could do a 'Leak Down' test to determine if you have worn rings, any leakage wont show up for worn valve guides as it would for piston rings.
Honda had about the best piston rings of any engine made, it was rare for them to wear out before the valve guides did.


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## JM Hruby (Apr 12, 2019)

Appreciate the replies. I should have noted that this is my second season running the HS55, so there's nothing wrong with it that a fuel additive would fix. I'm not a fan of Seafoam, way too many engines are ruined by excessive use of these solvents, so I don't use them unless I know I have a problem that they can fix. Oil burning isn't' one of them.




ST1100A said:


> Honda had about the best piston rings of any engine made, it was rare for them to wear out before the valve guides did.


I don't think the guides would be that difficult to do. Is there any trick on the Hondas that make them really difficult to get out or back in again? Special tools required?

Good info about the rings. I'll check the compression this afternoon and see what it actually is. I should have done that before.

Many thanks.

Grouse


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## arienskids (Jan 26, 2018)

If anyone here is familiar with the old hr214s they do the same thing and it’s always valve guides


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

JM Hruby said:


> Is there any trick on the Hondas that make them really difficult to get out or back in again? Special tools required?


EDIT: I just realized you are talking about REPLACING the valve guides. That's best done with the head off, so file the Rope Trick info below away for when you're just working on the springs, keepers, rockers, etc.

Replacing the valve guides involves a special tool to remove the old ones and install the new ones and a reamer to size them to the valve stems. Good video here:





The *Rope Trick* helps keep the valves closed while you're working and keeps them from falling into the cylinder.

*Fill Some of the Space Above the Piston*
With the piston low in the cylinder, use rope made of something that won't shed any fibers. Feed the rope into the cylinder through the sparkplug hole. Continue to feed the rope into the cylinder, loosely filling as much of the cylinder as possible.

*Rotate the Engine *
Rotate the engine by hand until you feel resistance (the rope pressed between the piston and valves). If you have a broken valve spring and the valve does not close completely keep some upward pressure on the valve so the rope does not get caught between the valve and seat.

*The Valves Will Be Held in Place by the Rope*
Use a valve spring compressor (if necessary) to compress the valve spring, remove the keepers (a small magnetic pickup will help) and the spring. Complete whatever repairs are needed.

*Removing the Rope*
Rotate the engine in the opposite direction, relieving the pressure between the rope and valves, remove the rope, and you are done.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

JM Hruby said:


> Appreciate the replies. I should have noted that this is my second season running the HS55, so there's nothing wrong with it that a fuel additive would fix. I'm not a fan of Seafoam, way too many engines are ruined by excessive use of these solvents, so I don't use them unless I know I have a problem that they can fix. Oil burning isn't' one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They are pretty easy/simple to do.
Honda has a special tool to drive them out and in, then after the new one is installed, you have to 'Ream' them with the valve guide reamer.


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## RAOUL225 (Jan 24, 2020)

Don't loose sleep over this,,,leave it like that.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

JM Hruby said:


> Appreciate the replies. I should have noted that this is my second season running the HS55, so there's nothing wrong with it that a fuel additive would fix. I'm not a fan of Seafoam, way too many engines are ruined by excessive use of these solvents, so I don't use them unless I know I have a problem that they can fix. Oil burning isn't' one of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


a compression test won't tell you if you have a worn oil control ring


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

i would just leave it alone.

Start it up go in the house for 5 minutes problem solved


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

ST1100A said:


> That is one of the common things with the older Honda GX engines was a worn valve guide.
> The piston rings far outlasted the guides on them.
> You could do a 'Leak Down' test to determine if you have worn rings, any leakage wont show up for worn valve guides as it would for piston rings.
> Honda had about the best piston rings of any engine made, it was rare for them to wear out before the valve guides did.


what do you suggest? leave as is or a rebuild? Will this problem get worse over time? Maybe rebuild for the fun of it but not cost effective for me .


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

orangputeh said:


> what do you suggest? leave as is or a rebuild? Will this problem get worse over time? Maybe rebuild for the fun of it but not cost effective for me .


Good question Orangputeh, I guess it depends on what the customer wants to do with it.
The problem will get worse over time, but depending on how much it is used will determine about how long it will last before it needs a rebuild, and the cost effectiveness for them.
Rebuild it as a hobby or learning experience if the customer wants to try it.
It's almost like 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

ST1100A said:


> They are pretty easy/simple to do.
> Honda has a special tool to drive them out and in, then after the new one is installed, you have to 'Ream' them with the valve guide reamer.


'Special Tool' which cannot be found or if it is available costs $250, I betcha.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Rooskie said:


> 'Special Tool' which cannot be found or if it is available costs $250, I betcha.


Naw, it's just a correct-sized valve guide tool... Here's the Honda one for $11.32 + shipping:


https://www.walmart.com/ip/Honda-07742-0010100-07742-0010100-Valve-Guide-Driver-077420010100/301977328


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

tabora said:


> Naw, it's just a correct-sized valve guide tool... Here's the Honda one for $11.32 + shipping:
> 
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Honda-07742-0010100-07742-0010100-Valve-Guide-Driver-077420010100/301977328


Don't forget the guide reamer. Honda uses a 5.5 mm in many of their engines which are available at many places.
Give Tabora a few minutes and he will probably post a link to them with prices.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

We have a lot of power equipment engines, lawn mowers that smoked like that running 10w30 oil. When it was switched over to straight 30 weight the smoking stopped.
As for the snowblower you don't want the straight 30 weight in the cold temperatures, so we used AMSOIL 10w30 and added STARTRON to the gasoline to help burn off and carbon residues and did not have problems, it really cut back on the smoke, but you knew eventually the guides will require replacement.
Most people use the 5w30 in their snowblowers, the AMSOIL 10w30 will flow at minus 46 degrees F so it should work good in colder Minnesota weather to help with the smoking a little bit. He could try that if he doesn't want to do the valve guide replacement yet.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

ST1100A said:


> Don't forget the guide reamer. Honda uses a 5.5 mm in many of their engines


07984-ZE2000D








OEM Honda Valve Guide Reamer 07984 ZE 2000 D for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for OEM Honda Valve Guide Reamer 07984 ZE 2000 D at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


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## JM Hruby (Apr 12, 2019)

Great info guys. 

The main thing is I just wanted to know what was causing the smoking in the first place. As I said, I couldn't buy into "the rings are shot" because I've never seen rings that were so bad that they would cause that kind of smoke on startup, but then almost no oil burn when the engine was warm. 

I've tried switching up oil, I had the same thought that synthetic oil flows a little too well, so a change might work. It didn't. Conventional 10W-30 smokes just as bad. As someone else mentioned, going straight 30 is not an option in Minnesota, Today's high was 10 degrees F.

I'm not in a huge hurry to do anything this winter, obviously. Just used the machine again yesterday and it works great. I may get the Honda driver tool and go at this next summer.

Questions as long as I have you guys here.

When driving OUT the old bushings or guides, which way do they come out? It would be logical to me that they would be driven from the inside (valve side) of the head outward toward the rocker cover. But that's just my guess.

Which way are the guides driven out? 

Last question. Do they come out really hard generally? Any tricks? 

Many thanks.

J


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

They drive OUT towards the valve cover, they drive IN from the valve cover towards the piston.
Tabora posted a video that explains how some of it is done, there are many other videos that help show how to do them, it is a good idea to watch them.
Thanks to Tabora for posting the valve guide reamer tool from Honda. Genuine Honda tools are a bit expensive, but they are exact sizing for working on Honda products.
You can buy cheaper guide reamers but the Honda one that Tabora listed is the best to use because of its exact sizing so you don't mess it up by reaming too big.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

JM Hruby said:


> Any tricks?


Big hammer. Mass is your friend. Don't hit it too hard, let the mass do the work. You can also use a press if you have one, but probably not necessary.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Have Tabora check on the reamer size, I posted earlier of a common 5.5 mm size for Honda, the 5 hp engine might use the smaller 4.5 mm tool. I don't have the list in front of me at the moment, but Tabora would have it and the size required. He has a wealth of part numbers and tool numbers you would need for the job right at his fingertips.
Just give him your engine numbers and he can give you all the part numbers and everything you would need for the job.


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