# Oil change frequency



## Paulie139 (Sep 25, 2017)

OK, I apologize profusely right up front but I cannot for the life of me, find the posts that I know I've seen in the past regarding oil changes.

The manual for my AX369cc states to replace the engine oil "after the first month" and then "every six months". What if the new owner doesn't run it for the first time for an entire six weeks - there's no sense in changing oil that hasn't been used, or am I missing something here? Wouldn't it make more sense to go by usage hours? I'm translating the "every six months" into "at the end of the winter season", so that makes more sense to me than the "after the first month" statement.

That said, it's my understanding, based on what I recall seeing here, on SBF, that on a brand new machine, it's recommended to change the oil after the initial 4-5 hours of run time and then once every spring thereafter. Correct?


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

I would wait until 5 hours of use or 1 year whichever occurs first, then change the dino oil to synthetic 5W30 (38 oz. for your engine), change annually. If for some strange reason you don't make 5 hours of use after 1 year I would use conventional (dino) instead of synthetic for the first oil change just to ensure proper break-in.


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## Paulie139 (Sep 25, 2017)

I’m up to about 3.5 at this point so I was going to try and plan, as best as I could, to change it immediately after the next use since it takes about an hour to an hour and a half to do my property. I’d rather do it too soon than too late because I can always do it again, worst case scenario.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello Paulie139,

that amount of time should be plenty and not cause any issues. I would be sure to hang a bag of Irish Spring soap shavings around the engine and in the heater box to keep the field mice away from it as they will want to nest in the air cooling shroud.

I know you can buy small hour meters for engines if you are worried but even after an hour or two of snow clearing with a hot engine and oil would create an adequate time to change the break in oil.

I still do not like seeing engines without air filters but that's me. An oil bath air filter would be more to my liking but they will never do anything so simple. 


Leon


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## Paulie139 (Sep 25, 2017)

Thank-you, gentlemen!

Other ideas and advice are welcomed and encouraged!


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

Since the machines sit all spring, summer and fall, I prefer to change the oil just before snow flies. Since they generally have to be hauled out and started in the fall to make sure I have no fuel issues anyway, it doesn't make much sense to me to change the oil in spring. That eliminates any condensation from storage as it is removed just before I put the machine back to work. Just personal preference really.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

leonz said:


> ". . . I still do not like seeing engines without air filters but that's me . . ."


Me either; but you could rig one up temporarily and see how quickly it frosts up ?


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

I pretty much agree with all said....but i will add the timing does not have to be so precise. If you change it at 8 or 9 hours I seriously doubt it will change anything. I think these companies use the calendar instead of run time to simplify it for the average owner. It is really more about run time and how hard you run it (how hot does the engine get). 

When you change it do it with the engine warm to hot so it will flow better. What brand of engine is on your AX396CC ? LCT?

As an aside.....many car brands which have an oil change idiot light use a formula based on Time and Oil Temperature.


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## Paulie139 (Sep 25, 2017)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> I pretty much agree with all said....but i will add the timing does not have to be so precise. If you change it at 8 or 9 hours I seriously doubt it will change anything. I think these companies use the calendar instead of run time to simplify it for the average owner. It is really more about run time and how hard you run it (how hot does the engine get).
> 
> When you change it do it with the engine warm to hot so it will flow better. What brand of engine is on your AX396CC ? LCT?
> 
> As an aside.....many car brands which have an oil change idiot light use a formula based on Time and Oil Temperature.




Yes, the AC369cc is an LCT product. I’m not overly concerned about getting it down to the very last minute or hour, but I do know that the very first oil change on a brand new engine is probably the most crucial one.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

I have seen no difference in how these gas engines operate with filtered intake air so I would want an air filter in any case and simply installing a snorkel under the control panel on the handle bar would prevent them from icing up for that matter.

The permanent thick pad filters that Stihl uses for their hand held weed wackers and blowers have always worked very well and would keep the carburetor clean the year round. 

I would love to see them use a catalytic converter for these small engines to clean the exhaust and just convert it to carbon dioxide and water vapor. It of course would cost more but from my personal experience having dealt with the exhaust fumes from a Honda 340 engine on my Timberwolf TW5-FC commercial firewood splitter it made all the difference as the fumes were terrible- When I used the kerosene fired salamander to keep warm while splitting firewood the fumes were not even 1/10th as bad as the Honda engines fumes. I used to bring out a box fan to try to disperse the fumes away from where I was splitting firewood too. After I put the Foley Engine Service catalytic converter on it I had no fumes to contend with.

Wearing a good dust mask like the 3M model 93's helps but to stop the fumes you need a welding type disposable mask with or without a exhalation valve. An exhalation valve keeps your glasses from fogging up as you exhale rather than having your exhaled breath leak around the mask edges. They will last longer between changes if you buy the ones with the exhalation valves. They can be purchased from Gemplers directly.


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## d3500ram (Feb 5, 2017)

deezlfan said:


> Since the machines sit all spring, summer and fall, I prefer to change the oil just before snow flies. Since they generally have to be hauled out and started in the fall to make sure I have no fuel issues anyway, it doesn't make much sense to me to change the oil in spring. That eliminates any condensation from storage as it is removed just before I put the machine back to work. Just personal preference really.


^^- This -^^


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

In regards to having an air filter, I have tens of thousands of miles on snowmobiles, not one with an air filter.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

I'll just reiterate and add my agreement:

Change the oil after a few first season hours. The reason for doing this is because tiny specs of metal may develop in the oil from early use so it's good to get rid of the initial oil. 3.5 - 5 hours sounds fine to me.
Thereafter, change the oil annually,
I believe it's best to change oil at the start of the season rather than the end so the oil is always fresh,
Use synthetic oil rather than conventional.


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

Combustion causes potential acid formation in the oil, usually handled by additives until they "wear out". Similarly, moisture is a byproduct of combustion that accumulates in the oil until oil temp reaches about 175ºF for a while. Acid plus the moisture risks corrosion. Therefore, my thinking is to change the oil after the first hour or so of initial service, mostly to get any manufacturing debris and break-in particles out. After that, change every 20 hours on the Hobbs. I replace the oil at the end of the season, so the engine sits clean with no possible acid and moisture from combustion in the sump. This is part of a whole pre-hibernation protocol that includes fogging the cylinder, a quirt of ATF in there too. Plus a full cleaning, paint chip repairs, drain the tank, and inspect and repair anything that might deserve attention before the next use in the fall/winter. I usually apply a couple coats of paint sealant to everything before putting the cover on it and rolling it to its hibernation area.

I use full synthetic oil FWIW, starting with that first change at an hour or so of use.

Late in the fall, the spark plug comes out and the engine gets a few brisk starter cord pulls to clear any liquid (atf, fogging oil), then plug back in, fuel with Sta-Bil, and a test start/run to verify that no polar bears or Easter seals have taken up residence in the off-season. Then wait for snow.

I'm waiting for snow as I type.


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

I'm in the camp of changing oil at then end of the season. I agree with Dr Bob that it is better to sit idle for 8 months with clean oil, no moisture and no old contaminants. The oil will still be "fresh" at the start of the next season. But I also agree that the highest priority is to just change it regularly.


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## Paulie139 (Sep 25, 2017)

*Change oil at the beginning or end of season?*

Thank you all for chiming in as I've heard and seen valid arguments for both sides. 

I personally like the idea of changing the oil at the end of the season (in the spring) and running it for several minutes to circulate it so there's the freshest, most non-contaminated oil as possible sitting in the engine throughout the summer. 

If the snowblower ends up with little to no use (which is possible where I'm geographically located, but it's not looking like this year will be that scenario), then it's probably not as much of an issue.

I suppose if one were REALLY anal about it, the oil could be changed BOTH in the spring AND the fall. 

I'm not that one....

Please feel free to keep the debate up. You guys have a lot of great information that's always interesting to look at and think about - love it.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

If it is a light season (used less than 8 times during the year) I will change oil every 3-4 years if running full synthetic. Otherwise every 2 years.


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## sciphi (May 5, 2014)

TL;DR version: change the oil sometime. If not sure when, change it.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

GoBlowSnow said:


> If it is a light season (used less than 8 times during the year) I will change oil every 3-4 years if running full synthetic. Otherwise every 2 years.


An interesting approach indeed. I imagine no issues, what about all the talk (hype) about even the best synthetic additive packages deteriorating after about 1 year?


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

GoBlowSnow said:


> If it is a light season (used less than 8 times during the year) I will change oil every 3-4 years if running full synthetic. Otherwise every 2 years.


It may seem counter intuitive, but a car can go over 10,000 miles on synthetic while a snow blower should have oil changed annually - whether synthetic or conventional oil is used. The reason is that snow blowers don't have oil filters so all the contaminants, sludge, etc. should be cleaned out before they can do any damage.


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

Paulie139 said:


> Thank you all for chiming in as I've heard and seen valid arguments for both sides.
> 
> I personally like the idea of changing the oil at the end of the season (in the spring) and running it for several minutes to circulate it so there's the freshest, most non-contaminated oil as possible sitting in the engine throughout the summer.
> 
> (... snipped some ...)


I'm with all except for the part about running the engine for few minutes to circulate the fresh oil. OK to give it some spins with pull rope to splash oil around, but don't actually run it. lubrication is by splash in most of the small to medium air-cooled engines, so you just want to splash some fresh stuff around in there to dilute whatever's left hanging on engine surfaces. Running it has fuel wash and contamination if the engine oil isn't brought to temperature. Moisture from combustion takes a little more temperature and time to evaporate off. Clean fresh non-contaminated oil during storage, please.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Tony P. said:


> It may seem counter intuitive, but a car can go over 10,000 miles on synthetic while a snow blower should have oil changed annually - whether synthetic or conventional oil is used. The reason is that snow blowers don't have oil filters so all the contaminants, sludge, etc. should be cleaned out before they can do any damage.


But that's the thing, there is no damage. Before I came along- they would go 5+ years on regular dyno 5W30 or 10W30 oil before getting an oil change, sometimes even longer. And I've not had an engine related failure yet on any of the machines I work on. The oil is in decent shape when it is drained out, not dark, not burnt, no sludge/clumps.. I have pulled the head on 2 of the Techumseh 8HP engines and they look just fine. I do use ZDP with the older machines.


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## thool (Jul 25, 2016)

Oil is cheap! I change mine in the spring before storage, and ALWAYS check the level before I start it again next winter. I have a 1977 Yard Man (MTD) with a Tecumseh HM80 that runs great.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

GoBlowSnow said:


> But that's the thing, there is no damage. Before I came along- they would go 5+ years on regular dyno 5W30 or 10W30 oil before getting an oil change, sometimes even longer. And I've not had an engine related failure yet on any of the machines I work on. The oil is in decent shape when it is drained out, not dark, not burnt, no sludge/clumps.. I have pulled the head on 2 of the Techumseh 8HP engines and they look just fine. I do use ZDP with the older machines.


I certainly don't have the mechanical experience to disagree with you. However, I've never heard of non-filtered power equipment of any kind where the manufacturer didn't recommend frequent oil changes. And that applies as well to Honda and Briggs & Stratton, the largest manufacturers of small engines.

Having said that, I can see infrequent oil changes if the equipment is seldom used.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

I guess I'm a little different. I keep all my OPE fully filled with 90 octane non ethanol, Stabil 360 Marine treated gas, and start everything up once a month. 
Lawn equipment gets started and run until hot in the winter, Snow equipment gets the same exercise in the summer.
The generators get a run every month all year around.
I change the oil when the recommended hours are reached on each machine.
Never had a problem with any equipment, fuel or oil related.
This includes:
Two generators. One Champion 3500 watt and one Generac 15000 watt.
Two push mowers. (one is a "never change your oil"mower. Ha-Ha.) It still gets oil changes.
One all wheel drive Husqvarna Rider 322T AWD.
One 25 ton log splitter.
One snow blower.
One chain saw. Use 50:1 Truefuel.
One leaf blower. Use 50:1 Truefuel.
One weed trimmer. Use 50:1 Truefuel.


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