# HELP !!! Axle Gear in Transmission Case moving away from the pin!!!



## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

Guys I have a 11 year old 9/28 and 2 years ago I decided to replace all the bearing in the bottom end, including the right side transmission bearings. Fast forward to last week, the pin in the axle shaft snapped off. No biggie, I have done 6 in the last 4 years (for other people). I bought a new shaft and 2 gears (sold as a kit). All went back together perfect.4 days later I cleared my 2800 sq ft driveway from a 20 cm dump (7+ inches) of wet Newfoundland snow. She worked flawlessly. I was in the middle if doing my fathers and she started to hesitate going in and out of gear. I barely managed to get her back in the truck. I tore it apart again and this is what I found. 

the gear on the axle shaft had backed away from the pin but still managed to spin on the shaft and now it's completely seized on the shaft. I thought it was mechanic error and bought a new shaft/gear set (200.00 each set!!) put it back together this time with a buddy of mine(he has done this before as well) and I got 50ft in the back yard and SAME THING!!!!!.
Any idea what could be causing this???
All comments are appreciated.

Forgot to mention, the inside of the black steel case has a serious wear indentation in it in the shape of the gear, would that be enough to make that gear move?


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

With all the components in place the pin shouldnt be moving out like this, is the 2 cm or so wide collar in place when you put the shaft back in place, along with the washer? 

part 12 and 16 shown bellow 










also shown here on the shaft. 










check the following link for more pictures. 

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ht-hydrostatic-transmission-2.html#post768218


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

:bestpost:Gotta be one of the best write ups I have seen in awhile right there JNC! I will bookmark that one.....


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

Yes every part is back in as per the Shop Manual I have, which coincides with that write up you have shown.
Again this is my 6th time doing this to these blowers, however this is the first time this has ever happened.


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## chaulky45 (Jan 23, 2014)

Keeshonden said:


> Yes every part is back in as per the Shop Manual I have, which coincides with that write up you have shown.
> Again this is my 6th time doing this to these blowers, however this is the first time this has ever happened.


Ok just a long shot when I did my 724 honda with all new bearings,gears and 2 shafts because mine was slipping also cause the pin broke off, it worked fine for first few days but then started acting up,and would nudge in gear not moving right, the gear and axel popped out, what happened I forgot to put the bottom plate cover back on after the I did the rebuild, has 4-6 bolts in it, you need this plate on the bottom to hold all the casing in place if not when using the blower the strain spread the casing apart just enough for the gear to slip out of place,not sure if this is your problem


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

JNC did you mean #12 & #6 ??


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

Hey Chaulky, not a part left over  That makes perfect sense but yes those plates were on, they are after all a removable chassis part.


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## ZOMGVTEK (Sep 25, 2014)

The gear can't physically go anywhere with the proper stackup. It's sandwiched between the inner bearing and the outer cover. You should be able to try to shake the axle out of the housing after assembly and notice a very small amount of play, but no more.

Unless the housing cracks or somehow fails, there is not sufficient physical space for this to happen. I always jiggle the axle with the cover on to make sure it's not being compressed, and also not flopping around.


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

ZOMGVTEK said:


> The gear can't physically go anywhere with the proper stackup. It's sandwiched between the inner bearing and the outer cover. You should be able to try to shake the axle out of the housing after assembly and notice a very small amount of play, but no more.
> 
> Unless the housing cracks or somehow fails, there is not sufficient physical space for this to happen. I always jiggle the axle with the cover on to make sure it's not being compressed, and also not flopping around.


Your words are ringing true....but yet it moves. I will be taking it apart again tonight and see if there is any play in the case before I take the gears out...again to see if I notice anything different.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

HUH? Not familiar with them, but obviously something flexes or moves enough for that pin to come out...? Looks like a pretty sizable pin too! I wonder if you could slip some kind of a spring steel wavy washer/spacer into the stack-up to keep more pressure against the pin? Or, would that just aggravate the problem.....? Surely somebody has come up with a solution...?


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

ZOMGVTEK said:


> The gear can't physically go anywhere with the proper stackup. It's sandwiched between the inner bearing and the outer cover. You should be able to try to shake the axle out of the housing after assembly and notice a very small amount of play, but no more.
> 
> Unless the housing cracks or somehow fails, there is not sufficient physical space for this to happen. I always jiggle the axle with the cover on to make sure it's not being compressed, and also not flopping around.


Your words are ringing true....but yet it moves. I will be taking it apart again tonight and see if there is any play in the case before I take the gears out...again to see if I notice anything different.


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

bad69cat said:


> HUH? Not familiar with them, but obviously something flexes or moves enough for that pin to come out...? Looks like a pretty sizable pin too! I wonder if you could slip some kind of a spring steel wavy washer/spacer into the stack-up to keep more pressure against the pin? Or, would that just aggravate the problem.....? Surely somebody has come up with a solution...?


The pin never came out it never comes out. The gear actually backed away from the pin.


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

3macs1 said:


> Agree 100%. The op has to triple check when taking it apart this time to make sure it matches the drawing or he hAS the wrong spacer in there by mistake
> Cheers


It will be quadrupled checked tonight...hopefully I will have pics as well. 

Thanks to all.


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## chaulky45 (Jan 23, 2014)

Keeshonden said:


> Hey Chaulky, not a part left over  That makes perfect sense but yes those plates were on, they are after all a removable chassis part.


Very good, well must be some little thing causing it


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

3macs1 said:


> Take your time and check that spacer width. I just did two of these so far this year and a few others over the years and don't remember any movement like you are seeing
> Make sure that side plate is flat also where the case bolts and not bulged giving the gear some play and make sure item 15 &6 are not crushed etc and the two 12 is on both sides of the gear and 6 is not installed backwards or there is a part on the floor that never went back in
> All the best


You my friend win the prize!!! Side case is screwed. 
That's what 11 years of 4000 sqft of driveway per snowfall will do!!!
Have to call the dealer this morning and see if they have one in stock.

I wonder if pulling hard on the left handle while making a left turn, basically letting the track turn a circle would cause this. All the pressure is on that right side when making a sharp left turn to go back up the driveway!!!


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

chaulky45 said:


> Very good, well must be some little thing causing it


See above Chaulky.


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

3macs1 said:


> I see all of this nice red grease. Are you guys using the Lucas red & tacky
> Cheers


Macs that is in fact Lucas Red and Tacky...real nice stuff.


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## chaulky45 (Jan 23, 2014)

*case*



Keeshonden said:


> See above Chaulky.


Yes , whats the prize,lol, well I have seen them like that on some also , and it dont take much for the side case to bow out, I would think yes, like you said many years of turning it left to right and the strain on it bowed it out, sometimes it can be fixed and straightened but sometime the metal is too weak and will bow out again


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

3macs1 said:


> I think losing the shaft , pin and gear did the damage more than the turning. God knows how it moved and torqued once free. Were the bearings bad also originally. That would play **** on the plate also . There was way too much slop and plate wear for some reason
> Don't toss that other shaft and gear that spun out either. That can be fixed or if not I will buy it from you
> Cheers


Mac the bearings were all replaced 2 years ago and not Honda bearing they were F.A.G Bearings out of Germany (http://www.***.de/content.***.de/en/). (remove the dots when searching...political correctives on the forum  )

As per that dust seal (#17 DUST SEAL (20X34X7.5)) I think you are referring to. I wondered about that myself 2 years ago so I took a trip to the local dealer and had a look at the models on the floor and all the dust caps were on the outside. In the meantime I have a buddy looking at his unmolested 9/28 to confirm.


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

3macs1 said:


> I think losing the shaft , pin and gear did the damage more than the turning. God knows how it moved and torqued once free. Were the bearings bad also originally. That would play **** on the plate also . There was way too much slop and plate wear for some reason
> Don't toss that other shaft and gear that spun out either. That can be fixed or if not I will buy it from you
> Cheers


Mac I have thought about this a lot over the last few days...like day and night and the gear cannot move off of that shaft unless that plate was bowed and I really think the way I have been turning that machine for the last 10 years (4 solid snow months each year) I think that little 1/16 of play that is normally there became more and more over the years to a point where it backed off enough for the middle gear to wind that axle gear further up the axle shaft and into the plate, therefore bowing it.

Not sure if I mentioned this or not but when this broke originally 2 weeks ago the pin was broken in half and the gear was wound up the shaft about 1 inch from the pin!!!


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

Keeshonden said:


> Mac the bearings were all replaced 2 years ago and not Honda bearing they were F.A.G Bearings out of Germany (http://www.***.de/content.***.de/en/). (remove the dots when searching...political correctives on the forum  )
> 
> As per that dust seal (#17 DUST SEAL (20X34X7.5)) I think you are referring to. I wondered about that myself 2 years ago so I took a trip to the local dealer and had a look at the models on the floor and all the dust caps were on the outside. In the meantime I have a buddy looking at his unmolested 9/28 to confirm.


Here are some pics of the dust seal on my buddy's unmolested 9/28 1 year newer than mine. Dust seal is on the outside of the plate.


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

3macs1 said:


> Yes but the broken pin would allow that not like you are seeing now


Sorry Mac, I'm not following your train of thought.


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## 3macs1 (Feb 5, 2016)

deleted by 3macs1


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

Well I have it all back together and it's much tighter now. I have to wait for the next real dump from Mother Nature to give it a true test. My neighbors think i'm nuts walking this blower up and down the street in +4 Celsius (38 F) 
Thanks to all. 3Macs1, from one Islander to another...big thanks.

I'll be back later with an update.


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## 3macs1 (Feb 5, 2016)

Keeshonden said:


> Well I have it all back together and it's much tighter now. I have to wait for the next real dump from Mother Nature to give it a true test. My neighbors think i'm nuts walking this blower up and down the street in +4 Celsius (38 F)
> Thanks to all. 3Macs1, from one Islander to another...big thanks.
> 
> I'll be back later with an update.


No problem my friend. Glad it all worked out 
You know where to find me if I can be of any help in the future since it won't be here. Think I found a 1132 but she needs a hydro box overhaul which from the last one I did is not for the faint of heart. This is a couple of failures I have seen on these but just on 1132. None on the smaller models
Kind Regards


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## chaulky45 (Jan 23, 2014)

Keeshonden said:


> Well I have it all back together and it's much tighter now. I have to wait for the next real dump from Mother Nature to give it a true test. My neighbors think i'm nuts walking this blower up and down the street in +4 Celsius (38 F)
> Thanks to all. 3Macs1, from one Islander to another...big thanks.
> 
> I'll be back later with an update.


Good to here, if it works outs good try not to force it to turn left and right unless the snow is slippery enough or icy to do,your not the 1st one had that problem but a difficult one to figure out unless you look at the side covers on those when off,put a straight edge on it to see the bulge that causes to pops the gears and shafts out, took me a little while to figure out my old 724 a few years back after rebuilding the bottom end, worked fine for a few days then got the clicking and tracks stopped moving, however on mine I forgot to put the plate back on the bottom to keep everything in tack and square but having the bottom plate off while using the blower put more strain on the side cover , bulged it out just enough for the gears to pop out, Good Luck with it


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

chaulky45 said:


> Good to here, if it works outs good try not to force it to turn left and right unless the snow is slippery enough or icy to do,your not the 1st one had that problem but a difficult one to figure out unless you look at the side covers on those when off,put a straight edge on it to see the bulge that causes to pops the gears and shafts out, took me a little while to figure out my old 724 a few years back after rebuilding the bottom end, worked fine for a few days then got the clicking and tracks stopped moving, however on mine I forgot to put the plate back on the bottom to keep everything in tack and square but having the bottom plate off while using the blower put more strain on the side cover , bulged it out just enough for the gears to pop out, Good Luck with it


Chaulky, I think I gonna move the scraper (auger housing guard) up a little and purchase a set of polyurethane shoes....and yes take it easy on the turns.:icon-embarrassed:

Later.


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## chaulky45 (Jan 23, 2014)

*Good*



Keeshonden said:


> Chaulky, I think I gonna move the scraper (auger housing guard) up a little and purchase a set of polyurethane shoes....and yes take it easy on the turns.:icon-embarrassed:
> 
> Later.


Good, hope all works out, one of reasons I sold my last honda, the hss 928 she was a bit heavy for turning, also the price I sold it for was way more then what I payed for it when I sold it, had cash on hand and $900 left over in pocket so I purchased the new YT624 bought in Moncton,$3160 tax in, almost $900 cheaper then Honda 724 and, apparently the last YT624 left in Canada, none left in Nl either, shes faster in forward and reverse verses any Honda I had out of 10 of them, very easy to maneuver, nice and quiet, throws the snow just as far as any 724 or 928 honda I had, did a few mods, led lights ,rear red led lights, bucket extension from Cormier Equipment, took my chance on getting it as they were only supposed to fit hondas only but with a bit of drilling it fit the Yamaha fine,driftcutter bars and a few Yamaha stickers I just got today ordered from Amazon


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

Looks awesome, nothing wrong with a Yammie


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

The axle kit you bought, is it a genuine Honda kit or aftermarket? Either way if you have the part number would you mind sharing it?


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## chaulky45 (Jan 23, 2014)

94EG8 said:


> The axle kit you bought, is it a genuine Honda kit or aftermarket? Either way if you have the part number would you mind sharing it?


Just call or go to any Honda dealer, when I did mine it was $350 for the shaft and gear, then there was another gear that was around 50 or so, not in the kit, then all the bearings, 15 each, cant remember how many bearings, around 3-5, so around $500 and change you can rebuild it, all the blowers have same parts from 624 up to 1132 as far as I know.


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

94EG8 said:


> The axle kit you bought, is it a genuine Honda kit or aftermarket? Either way if you have the part number would you mind sharing it?


It was a genuine Honda Part(kit) came with the shaft and 2 gears. 175.00 + 13% tax CDN. I will get the kit number tonight when I am home.
For now. See Pic attached.


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## Keeshonden (Oct 27, 2015)

chaulky45 said:


> Just call or go to any Honda dealer, when I did mine it was $350 for the shaft and gear, then there was another gear that was around 50 or so, not in the kit, then all the bearings, 15 each, cant remember how many bearings, around 3-5, so around $500 and change you can rebuild it, all the blowers have same parts from 624 up to 1132 as far as I know.


Yeah, 5 bearings 2 years ago cost me 75.00 (not Honda Bearings). here at the dealer they just charged a fella 1200.00 CDN for a tranny job !!! :dizzy:
Not sure if al lthe bearings, gears, washers and shafts were replaced. For that price I hope so.


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