# toro ccr2000 rebuild project



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

i was gifted a toro ccr2000 model 38181 w/ suzuki 2 cycle motor by @crazzywolfie , thx again btw, it would randomly start but it stayed running only for a few seconds, had fuel in the tank but dont know how old it is, didnt smell bad but i had no 2 stroke oil to mix a new batch.

it needed the carb cleaned but i only had on hand some brake cleaner, did a quick teardown and clean just to see if i can get it started. success, it started rather easily and stayed running. sounds like crap though but im no 2 stroke genius, barely know the 4 strokes. i was going to hook up a tach but didnt bother yet since its not running quite right yet. 
how does it sound to u guys

edit. thats the machine moving forward on its own cause of the paddles, its not me pushing it, its pulling me. sweet
added vid nov 21/2018- its only sb porn






added final vid nov 16/2018






EDIT:ADDED THIS VID OCT 12/2018






EDIT:ADDED THIS VID OCT 10/2018


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

no problem. i figure it might need a carb clean since it was so hard to get started that but once it started it seemed to run ok. you may want to look at the spark plug. i completely forgot about it till now but i think i might have seen it bubbling around the plug when i went to fire it up but i think the plug might have been a bit loose. as far as the mixed gas goes i always mix it at 40:1 even tho i am pretty sure the cap says 50:1. i just figure it usually ends up at about 45:1 since you probably never get all the oil out of whatever you use to measure it and better safe than sorry with a 2 stroke. as far as i know the gas in it is at least 4 months old or that is how long i have had it sitting around without doing a single thing to it other than having it sitting at the back of my car shelter. i think it would be a pretty good machine once it the carb is cleaned and it is bolted back together. it does make me wonder why someone took it apart like they did since there is nothing obviously broken


----------



## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Sea foam in fresh gas or sea foam alone poured into tank and the engine cranked over a few times without the spark plug in the engine to help clean the carb out and after letting it sit for a day drain it out and use fresh high octane gas and 32 to 1 fuel oil mix(your snow pup will thank you)

It will not hurt to have a spare plug and a new drive belt on hand hanging on the wall as they do wear out- I do not have the oregon part number for the belt in front of me but its easy enough to find on the toro web site.


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

i think they took apart nbecause the crank for the chute was rusted and could barely function.

toro spec for the suzuki engine is 50.1 tcw3 oil. is tcw3 all that important, or finding a full synthetic, or both?
so i guess lower is safer than a higher mix ratio.

lol, no carb cleaner anywhere near me, canadian tire has zero in stock of about 5 stores near me, princess auto doesnt even come up in their search. i guess a carparts supplier is where i'll go


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

That sounds about like the one that I picked up (free) earlier this summer and got running. And mine still blows similar smoke. As for the oil, I use the Toro 2 stroke oil, since all I have are Toro machines. And I am not one who puts more oil in the mix than specified. I understand the thinking of others to mix a little rich, but I would rather mix the specified amount. To me, more oil is not better or safer, it just fouls things up.


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

maybe. it just seemed a bit strange that they also had the belt cover off. i just use whatever 2 stroke oil the store has. i don't think it makes a huge difference as far as synthetic or not. i think the more important that you get the mix right. the mixed fuel also lubricates the engine so if you don't mix it with enough oil it can cause damage to the engine but if you ad too much oil it will generally smoke a lot more. definitely don't go more than 32:1. as far as cleaners go i just use standard brake/parts cleaner. it usually does the job. i think the carb cleaner may be a bit more potent sometimes but most of the time you probably don't need it. usually brake cleaner cleans things up pretty good. princess auto had some pretty good stuff on sale a week or so ago but probably not on sale any more


----------



## jpor1018 (Aug 22, 2018)

I think it is more of a carb issue only because it does run so it is getting fuel. I would probably just change the carb easier than trying to rebuild Make sure plug,fuel filter and lines also primer bulb are good I would also switch to the pre mixed ethanol free gas or true fuel brand on the market.But thats just me.Although i am no mechanic I can't see going to the trouble of rebuilding or replacing things only to ruin it by using gasoline with ethanol in it even if it will take a number of years


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

plug was not loose but not tight either.
the tip is off center though, if i try to center it over the electrode it will just end up touching it. will get a new one either way.
trufuel in my are is $10+ per liter. suzuki carb are not as cheap to buy as techs, clones idk, but cleaning is not that hard w/some kind of cleaner, even acetone. ethanol is a problem if kept in for prolonged periods which i dont plan on doing with my small engine machines.

very easy to manoeuvre even with one hand, it will make it a nice compliment to my 28/10 beast. exactly what i was looking for. less shoveling at my age the better, the plus side is i get more toys to tinker with


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

no need to make bent the point over the electrode. just make sure it is gapped right and that is pretty much all you need. i did try tightening the plug after noticing it but really didn't have the right tools with me when i picked it up. i moved all my tools back over to my big truck and i have been driving the small one. 

ya they are super light. the propeller thing even usually pulls it along and sweeps down to bare pavement. that is what i miss about them little single stage machines.

as far as fuel goes you can get ethanol free fuel from shell


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

crazzywolfie said:


> no need to make bent the point over the electrode. just make sure it is gapped right and that is pretty much all you need. i did try tightening the plug after noticing it but really didn't have the right tools with me when i picked it up. i moved all my tools back over to my big truck and i have been driving the small one.
> 
> ya they are super light. the propeller thing even usually pulls it along and sweeps down to bare pavement. that is what i miss about them little single stage machines.
> 
> as far as fuel goes you can get ethanol free fuel from shell


alot of misinfo / outdated info on who sells non ethanol in the gta, rumor was crappy tire super was non ethanol but no info from them on this. is it shell super only non ethanol?


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

usually shell's 91 octane gas is ethanol free and it says right on the pump. i think ultramar's premium might be ethanol free also but it is really hard to say. they say how much is in the regular and mid grade but say nothing about the premium. i only buy my premium at shell for the reason they are the only ones who have it written right on the pump that the premium is ethanol free.


----------



## uberT (Dec 29, 2013)

Vinny, be very careful with how much you've spent on this machine if it's still not running...


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

uberT said:


> Vinny, be very careful with how much you've spent on this machine if it's still not running...


shes was a running with some brake cleaner that i already had, a better cleaning is all that i think she needs to rev properly. more labor than parts at this moment, afaik it was just neglected, poor baby, but shes back to life, just taking care of the little things.
just took off the chute gear tooth assembly, the plate was swelled up with rust that the chute wouldnt turn freely, but a wire wheel and some grease will take care of that. other than some nuts and bolts i think she'll be ready for winter in no time


----------



## jpor1018 (Aug 22, 2018)

I only suggested non ethanol gas after he fixes every thing because i had some starting issues with my husqvarna leaf blower. Had to replace fuel line that goes to filter twice.The end would split,the filter would fall into the tank and not prime Original fuel line lasted eight years which is ok second one only lasted three years was told by the repair man it was due to ethanol in gas.I always added stabilizer to fuel and ran till dry at end of season After replacing carb,new primer bulb,fuel lines and filter for about 25 dollars starts right up one or two pulls My thought is after we rebuild or replace these parts you are still running ethanol gas thru the system even though we drain it out at end of season


----------



## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

vinnycom said:


> i think they took apart nbecause the crank for the chute was rusted and could barely function.
> 
> toro spec for the suzuki engine is 50.1 tcw3 oil. is tcw3 all that important, or finding a full synthetic, or both?
> so i guess lower is safer than a higher mix ratio.
> ...


I second Leonz's recommendation. Add Seafoam to ethanol free, 91 octane gas, I use a 50:1 mixture of oil/gas mixture.
One you get it started let it run for 5 to 10 minutes and let the Seafoam do its job, it works pretty darn good. I had some surging the last couple of years and a tank full of ethanol free gas/Seafoam cleared it up right away. My Toro CCR-2000 has been with me since 1991 and has been through to some tough winters here in the Buffalo, N.Y. area with the lake effect snow we get. The Suzuki engine is a beast!!! I will be trying synthetic oil with the ethanol free gas this year, you won't see any smoke coming out of your Toro with this recommended 50:1 mixture.

Best of luck!


----------



## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

vinnycom said:


> shes was a running with some brake cleaner that i already had, a better cleaning is all that i think she needs to rev properly. more labor than parts at this moment, afaik it was just neglected, poor baby, but shes back to life, just taking care of the little things.
> just took off the chute gear tooth assembly, the plate was swelled up with rust that the chute wouldnt turn freely, but a wire wheel and some grease will take care of that. other than some nuts and bolts i think she'll be ready for winter in no time


vinnycom, check your scrapper bar, they are made of plastic and do wear/crack on rough driveways. Ebay has them for 10 -15 dollars with free shipping.


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

aldfam4 said:


> vinnycom, check your scrapper bar, they are made of plastic and do wear/crack on rough driveways. Ebay has them for 10 -15 dollars with free shipping.


scraper looks fine but here in the great white north it aint as cheap, ~$30 w/shipping.
odd that all of the plastic is still in pretty good shape after so many years, im guessing late 80's, cant say as much for the metal parts though


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

problem with seafoam is if fuel is not getting sucked up by air to all of the carb passages due to blockage then seafoam cant clean those passages, and if air passages are plugged/dirty seafoam doesnt use those passages. 

if the fuel doesnt move through an opening then seafoam cant clean them. its good as a maintainer but if carbs been neglected its best to take it out and remove the jets, etc and clean it throughly w/a cleaner and a small wire and if u have one an unltrasonic cleaner. once thats done then seafoam cleaners and alike can keep the carb properly cleaned/tuned.

but really, this is my 3rd time cleaning any carb, its not brain surgery, plenty of utube vids to help u out, once u get the hang of it it literally takes no time at all, plus u get to feel like u got something fixed with your man hands, lol

imo, ymmv


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

jpor1018 said:


> I only suggested non ethanol gas after he fixes every thing because i had some starting issues with my husqvarna leaf blower. Had to replace fuel line that goes to filter twice.The end would split,the filter would fall into the tank and not prime Original fuel line lasted eight years which is ok second one only lasted three years was told by the repair man it was due to ethanol in gas.I always added stabilizer to fuel and ran till dry at end of season After replacing carb,new primer bulb,fuel lines and filter for about 25 dollars starts right up one or two pulls My thought is after we rebuild or replace these parts you are still running ethanol gas thru the system even though we drain it out at end of season


you can't compare leaf blower, weed eaters or any other small 2 stroke to lawnmower or snowblower sized 2 strokes. the little 2 strokes are way more sensitive to fuel with ethanol in it. the metering diaphragms and fuel lines are both more sensitive to ethanol even tho the new stuff claims ethanol does not effect it.

seafoam will not flush old gas or crud out of the carb. you pretty much need to take apart the carb and clean it before any cleaners might do something but at after taking the carb apart and cleaning it it will likely run like new again anyways so adding cleaner to the fuel is almost a waste


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

what the inside of the bowl looked like before i cleaned it, how would seafoam clean this stuff out


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

I'm with Vinny on cleaning the carbs. These types are very straightforward. I'm by no means an expert, and I can get though them pretty quick now. And then I know it is good to go Plus, as he said, it makes you feel good.


----------



## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

Wow, that's some serious gunk.., yes that bowl needs some serious cleaning not to mention the rest of the carb! Once it is cleaned, it will probably start up on the 1st or 2nd pull.


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

that is not the worst i have seen but pretty bad. it would definitely clog up the jet. i would agree that thing will likely run like new after cleaning that crud out of the carb. i am kind of surprised it ran at all with that build up but then again maybe the primer just forced the crud out of the way which is why it took so many pushes of the primer to get it started.


----------



## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

Great Toro 2000/3000 carb clean/rebuild by YouTuber 'sixtyfiveford'. Here's the link -


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

well some more testing revealed a bad coil and/or exciter coil(xstar module)
got a new plug, randomly will not produce spark even with on/off switch removed from wiring, espicially when warm, better chances when cold, but would misfire randomly. toro modules are very expensive. theres an after market exciter coil like 



, basically a capacitor to give more umph to spark for about $30-$40can, but still would not rule out the main coil/magneto.

in the process of taking off shroud and checking wiring to see any obvious signs of frayed wiring, will disconnect ground from module and check for spark, but not hopeful


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

looks like it might be a common issue with those things. too bad you didn't live a bit closer. i could dig through my spare coils and see if might be able to find something to work in its place that doesn't need the moduel. it seems strange that it would need the module to run. i know i got a pocket bike coil sitting in my toolbox that looks similar. it does make me wonder tho. my friends pocket bike use to stall out after running at top speed for a bit and was always a bit of a pain to start but it never had one of them modules.


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

theres 2 parts to the coil to get spark, the one on the flywheel and a small coil screwed to the other side of engine housing, why it needs both as i understand it the smaller coil/capacitor gives it an extra boost, true? idk.

but i think i found the culprit, a broken bullet connector going from the main coil to the smaller one which was giving intermittent connection and was held in place by the protective plastic sleeve.
temporally spliced it and it now shows steady spark but still a pia to start, finally found carb clean and going to clean carb one more time


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

yeah, see p9 of the parts pdf. The module is opposite side of flywheel from the magneto. Wire between which it seems you found. I tried to post but file was too big.


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

Yup. That's where I was looking, but man prices aren't cheap but nice to have parts list still available from manufacturer


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

that's why I picked up my CCR2000. It is rough, but the motor runs well, and was free. I will look for another with a better body/frame. I'm anxious to try it out after hearing all the comments on this forum about these machines.


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i know. new lawn mowers and engines don't seem to need that ignition module thing so i was just wondering if something like that could be upgraded to the newer setup. i am almost certain i have seen people do similar to old points engines but some of the newer stuff bolts right onto the old engines and works.

as far as capacitors making a better spark i don't really understand it but pretty sure it works unless the gut in this video is doing something else to make the spark look way stronger. hopefully that bad connection was the only issue other than the carb maybe being dirty. it did seem like it needed to be primed a lot to get it to fire.
https://youtu.be/qQFx1jmgiic?t=93


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

the very small hole in the bottom of the jet pilot, its screwed on to the top of carb beside the mixture screw, 
part # 81-2930 jet - pilot , was totally blocked, needs a stiff 28 gauge wire or thinner to get through it, took awhile but it finally cleared out, could of been, probably is, the reason for the hard starting not to mention the broken coil wire.
letting it soak overnight in carb cleaner as it got dark all of a sudden, winter must be coming

pic is extreme zoomed


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

very good.


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

that would definitely do it. it is surprising it ran at all with that blocked. sometimes when i get something that is really blocked and a bit stuborn i will spray it will oven cleaner and let it sit for about 5-10 minutes and then wash it off. oven clean can be very aggressive and you probably want to avoid getting on your skin but very good cleaner. i used it on my neighbors old toro which also had a very stubornly clogged jet. oven cleaner also works extremely good at cleaning carbon and grime off engine parts better than most parts cleaners


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

she lives!
so the main problem was intermittent or "no" spark due to broken bullet connector which was concealed by the protective sleeve, that wire ran from magneto(flywheel) to ignition module.
the other issue was the pilot jet screw, which has a very small hole at its bottom, it was plugged up with very hard crud.
she now starts nicely even after a warm up


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

that is good to here but makes me glad i didn't try fixing it. i think that clogged jet was the biggest thing that made it hard to start since it would try to start if you primed it enough. i guess now you just have to track down some bolt or screws to bolt everything back together. i think i remember metal roofing or siding bolt with rubber washers worked pretty good at holding some of my old 2 stroke together. they seemed like they were less likely to vibrate out. i also don't know if it would help or not but blue thread locker might help keep things from vibrating apart. i know most of the screws that hold these things together are not like normal bolts that you would use thread locker on


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

that is good to hear. i guess you just need to track down some hardware to hold it all together and should be ready to move snow this winter. i don't know if it will even work or not but might need thread locker for the bolts or screws. i always found my old 2 stroke snow thrower use to like vibrating bolts loose. i don't know if that will be an issue with this thing or not but you will find out pretty quick once you start using it


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

the nuts used by toro where nylon lock nuts, i had a few and seem the easiest solution, they will probably never back out.
fixed the metal chute guides, heavily encrusted w/rust which made turning the chute a combersome task, wire wheeled the rust off and i had some white metal spray paint, some grease and chute turns smooth now. white will bearily be visible as it will be covered up by the cover.
and she still starts up, even on first pull


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

good to hear that you got the machine running again. Bring on the snow.


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

heres my temp fix and how she now starts up. starts and sounds much better than b4, revs steady/smoother and no more misfire or hard starting even after a day of testing. one pull to start.
now to put her all back together and get ready for some snow


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

Yep, runs much better. And you're getting pretty good a these videos. By the way, I had to loctite the primer tube into the carb on mine, kept falling out too.


----------



## 3vanman (Nov 21, 2017)

If your looking for a carb, I have a brand new after market one you can have for my cost and shipping. 
I ordered 2 by mistake, and as I am gifting my machine to my son-in-law in Kamloops (as they do get snow there) I don't have a need for it. I also have the original carb, but the main jet broke when I attempted to take it out.


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

3vanman said:


> If your looking for a carb, I have a brand new after market one you can have for my cost and shipping.
> I ordered 2 by mistake, and as I am gifting my machine to my son-in-law in Kamloops (as they do get snow there) I don't have a need for it. I also have the original carb, but the main jet broke when I attempted to take it out.


a good cleaning with carb clean did the trick as shown in the vid, she nows starts on first pull ,so i wouldnt need another carb, thx anyways


----------



## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

Nice Job vinnycom! Yep, 1 or 2 pulls and you're on your way. You will definitely be impressed with this little beast, and it cleans right down to your driveway surface. Let us know how it works for you with the 1st significant snowfall. This machine will put a smile on your face when you use it.
P.S. keep the chute lubricated and auger/auger box area lubed!!!


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

added this to my video blog, 2 more parts coming, teardown and cleaning of the carb, and fixing the chute control, and final assembly .........eventually


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

nicely done


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)




----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

first real test. but i decided to adjust fuel mix screw, but what a pita to get to the mix screw. 
then it wouldnt start, reason, was adjusted too rich and then too much priming i got it flooded.....but i didnt figure it out until the third removal of the stupid bottom cover. stupid engineers.


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

that thing seems to be running and working pretty good. makes me miss having a 2 stroke lol. the thing has some real kick to it. oh well. i got more machines than i can deal with right now so really don't need more lol.


----------



## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

looks good Vinny. Thanks for the videos. And I certainly have flooded my share of these engines as I learn how they each run, especially the 2 stroke.


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

vinnycom said:


> first real test. but i decided to adjust fuel mix screw, but what a pita to get to the mix screw.
> then it wouldnt start, reason, was adjusted too rich and then too much priming i got it flooded.....but i didnt figure it out until the third removal of the stupid bottom cover. stupid engineers.






compared to my 2 stage this thing is so easy to maneuver even though it doesnt throw far, but really with that kind of snow its not a fair comparison, i think my heavy 2 stage will not get used much unless we get a major snowstorm, and i luv the fact the single stage gets right down to the pavement.


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

hahahaha ya they are really light and easy to maneuver. heck you can load/unload it by yourself if you ever needed to. my old little 2 stroke use to make its rounds. it almost lived in the back of my suv the first winter i owned it. it was a lot easier to load than my small 2 stage. at least now i got ramps so i can take whichever snowblower i would like in my truck.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I just read through this whole thread, I have the same one in my garage right now, can't get it running. I started a thread on it, little help maybe? I want this thing GONE and back to my friend.


----------



## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

added vid nov 21/2018- its only sb porn


----------

