# To Stud or Not To Stud



## kueh (Dec 29, 2013)

I am going install sheet metal screws to my old hard rubber tires to give me the traction that I need to work on hard compacted snow. I hope to scrape the compacted areas so they are relatively flat. If that fails, then I plan to use the studded tires to slowly chew through the high areas.

Advice?


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

I think those screws will wear pretty fast if you hit pavement.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I've heard of lots of people doing this with those old hard rubber tires. I guess if you put plenty of them in they might wear for a long while. I had an old Gilson that had them and I was able to swap them out for pneumatics from a Craftsman. I had to use some 3/4" copper pipe for bushings but it turned out very well and handled much better. Here are before and after pics. I also had to cut about an inch off the axle tubes but hey, it worked out really well. Just a thought for you.


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## GMH (Dec 31, 2013)

I have a friend who used to ice-race motorcycles, and they woud put case-hardened screws in their tires. Looked to be about a #8x5/8 hex head.


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

How about these motorcycle ice studs?

Motocross Dirt Bike tires studded for ice


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## cdestuck (Jan 20, 2013)

If the snow it packed that hard, I don't think your scraper blade is going to bite into it and just ride up over the snow pack


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## kueh (Dec 29, 2013)

The snow is quite hard packed, because I have been driving/parking on it. It has left ridges that are steep. So when I try to remove the new layer of snow, I and my blower are sliding down laterally. I have to put "grips" on my boots, so I thought studs would help the blower from sliding laterally too much.

I measured the tires. It seems like I can use 5/8" screws. I'll have to price them out. Half inch should suffice. Rough guess is about 100 screws per tire, but that may be over the top. 

I won't be using official ice-studs as the cost would be prohibitive. And I need to replace a belt because the old ones have been sitting too long (15 years). A chunk flew off the other day.


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

The good news is, it's not going to cost you much besides your time and if it really doesn't work it will be easy to get back to where you were originally. I'm assuming that you've considered chains?


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## kueh (Dec 29, 2013)

I have considered chains, but the tires that I have are old and an odd size. They are about 9.5" in diameter and 3.75" wide. The tire itself is about 0.75 inches thick. 

I read a description of someone drilling holes in the rim so chains could be bolted to the wheel.


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

I suppose that might work. Again, since it's a solid tire, you are out nothing if you're not happy with the result. Nothing to lose, but your time. Everything to gain if it does work.


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## RedShift42 (Nov 21, 2013)

We had a strange winter last year (not unlike this winter so far...) that left a wicked polished ice layer underneath the snow. Any driveway incline left snowblowers impotently treadmilling at the bottom. The nearest chains were 250mi away in Anchorage, so out of desperation I bought the sole pack of ice screws from the local hardware-- 50-pack of StabilIcers ice cleat replacement screws. 
I kissed the tip off the 1/2" shank w/ a grinder to protect my pneumatic tubes and ran 25 in each side. _What a tremendous difference._
Despite the considerable lateral & torsional loads, none loosened or dislodged the rest of the season and that Deere 1330 (342ci B&S) would pull me up the drive flatfooted on ice. (not recommended, however)

As I mentioned above, this winter is turning out quite similarly, big thaw and rains last week when the rest of y'all had the bottom falling outta your thermometers; if we ever have a 2nd snowfall, my HS1132 is going to be similarly helpless. I've got a fresh pack of the screws here and may try them in the tracks. Will report back if I do.


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## NazgulDarkrider (Jan 29, 2016)

RedShift,

Did you ever put studs on your Honda 1132 tracks? If so, how did it work out? I'm thinking I may need to stud the tracks of the Honda 1332 I am getting soon, in order to make it up my driveway if it's icy underfoot.

Naz


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Two year old thread . . . I'm not sure these would work on tracks but they show tires and boots. Since they're made for the purpose they would sure hold up longer than regular screws.

https://www.google.com/search?q=scr...hUKEwjj3JTKzvjOAhWxpYMKHfV6CIMQ_AUICygA&dpr=1


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Never tried studding tires. Typically I just put a set of pneumatic tires and chains on and they're good-to-go.


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## nastorino (Jan 28, 2016)

Standard sheet metal screws won't do you any good. As soon as you hit dry pavement and the tire starts to spin and then the screw catches it will come out. You'd have better luck with chains and weights.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Anyone have any experience with putting studs on a track drive snowblower?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

" To Stud or Not To Stud "

Just put pneumatic X-Trac and never look back ….. JMHO


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

oneacer said:


> " To Stud or Not To Stud "
> 
> Just put pneumatic X-Trac and never look back ….. JMHO


Oneacer he has a track drive so no putting tires on, As for the tracks I am not sure how well they will stay in and if they will destroy the tracks seeing how much they flex on the machine


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@Dauntae,

I quoted the OP, who was thinking of screwing screws into his tires.

As far as anyone with tracks, well if the tracks don't work for you, not sure screwing screws into them are really going to help. 

I personally have never had an issue using the pneumatic proper snow tires on any surface.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Yes, I've got a new Ariens RapidTrak Hydro Pro 28 and really love the RapidTrak. But I could always use more traction for pushing through EOD berms. I talked to the folks at Ken Jones Tires over the phone and they were saying that you can put studs on almost any track. The specific stud to use depends on the thickness of the lug (thickest part of track where stud would go), as well as the width of the lugs. They recommended their "igrip shoulder studs", model ss15 (assuming the lugs are at least 10mm wide, which they are).

Attached is a picture of the dimensions. Based on this, they look like a fit. If these were too big, the fall-back choice would be the ss11 stud.

If anyone else has tried this, it would be fantastic to hear and learn from their experience regarding:
-Overall feasibility, fit & durability (how well do they stay in?)
-Any downsides?
-Overall results (how much do they buy you?)

Thanks,
Eric


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

kueh said:


> I have considered chains, but the tires that I have are old and an odd size. They are about 9.5" in diameter and 3.75" wide. The tire itself is about 0.75 inches thick.
> 
> I read a description of someone drilling holes in the rim so chains could be bolted to the wheel.


You can build your own chains.
Also some people take chains that are too big and cut off what is not needed to make them fit.
This gives you the option of using chains only when needed as well.




Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Just adding the link below since it is also about studs:
https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/general-snowblower-discussion/153209-grip-studs-worth-try.html


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I have amended that post (Worth a Try) and need to super glue them in at least on tracks. Rubber tires may be different. 



We have one place in town that makes custom chains for not too much money. 6 Robblees a general tow bar, light, rims and other vehicle trailers accessorizes. 



> I think those screws will wear pretty fast if you hit pavement.


They are hard screws, used in a lot of add hoc bike tires in the past, not ideal because the shape is not right but known to work ok for cycles and footwear as well.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

No idea on how good but these are lower cost. 



https://www.igripstore.com/igrip-sh...kQczxKyDa74fbLPgpmZD76bGwGUQnO8UaAg4oEALw_wcB


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Just got off the phone with Ariens and they confirmed that adding studs to the tracks would void the warranty.

So I asked them how I get any value out of the dig-in mode. I explained to them that I don't get enough traction to move the machine in dig-in mode on even a slight up-hill incline. I pointed out that the added force on the scraper was just too much for the amount of traction I get from the tracks.

They said that I could add a weight to the front.

Sigh.

They didn't seem to realize that their suggestion would just make the problem worse. I'm still very happy with the machine, regardless of dig-in mode.

But has anyone gotten any value out of "dig-in" mode on a RapidTrak machine?


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Never got to run one. 

Find it amazing a sturdy machine wold void warranty with some studs. 

Get it out of warranty and or pull them if there is an issue. 

Love those answers where they obviously have not a clue on the tech details. I often got better answers by going higher in the chain.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Can you somehow make a modification to create another bucket-height setting Midway between normal and dig mode ? I thought someone had carved in another setting into their machine to do that. Although it may have been between transport and normal, but same concept.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

RIT333 said:


> Can you somehow make a modification to create another bucket-height setting Midway between normal and dig mode ? I thought someone had carved in another setting into their machine to do that. Although it may have been between transport and normal, but same concept.


RIT333,

Good idea! I need to poke around and find that thread and see what he learned.

Thanks,
Eric


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

ericr said:


> Just got off the phone with Ariens and they confirmed that adding studs to the tracks would void the warranty.
> 
> So I asked them how I get any value out of the dig-in mode. I explained to them that I don't get enough traction to move the machine in dig-in mode on even a slight up-hill incline. I pointed out that the added force on the scraper was just too much for the amount of traction I get from the tracks.
> 
> ...



Ariens would have quite the time voiding your warranty (except they might be able to void the track warranty.. maybe) because of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which states something to the effect that the manufacturer can't void your warranty for modifications you made unless they can prove said modification caused the failure. So if you stud your track and the auger gearbox fails then they will have to fix the machine. I couldn't even see how they could deny a drivetrain warranty because studs will give as much traction as running the machine on dry pavement.










RC20 said:


> Never got to run one.
> 
> Find it amazing a sturdy machine wold void warranty with some studs.
> 
> ...



I often find that I know more than salesmen because I actually do research before hitting a dealer.. sad really.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

ericr said:


> RIT333,
> 
> Good idea! I need to poke around and find that thread and see what he learned.
> 
> ...


The other thread on modifying the track bar is here: https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens-snowblowers/145139-new-pro-28-rapidtrak.html

It's cool to see people innovating like that!

But I'm looking at something a little different than what he is. Where he was adding a notch between regular mode and wheeled mode, I would be more interested in another notch between regular mode and dig-in mode. Specifically, that would be between the two upper notches in the track bar shown in bkwudz's third picture in the link above.

The track bar only costs $21.95 (Product Code: 05153551), so it would be cheap to have to buy another one while experimenting if I had to.

I guess Ariens could have made it infinitely adjustable like the Honda (at more cost). But it is nice to have the fixed settings to jump to without having to adjust each time. I wish I still had easy access to a Bridgeport for this kind of thing, but I do know a few people who might let me onto their machines.

But here is a thought on an interesting experimenting I could do BEFORE EVEN MAKING ANY MODIFICATION:

I could simply use a C-clamp to fix the height adjustment to any particular height (without having the trigger pin go into a slot). Specifically, I would clamp the track bar to the height adjuster bracket. That would allow me to try *any* specific height before comitting to anything.

If I find a height I like for my new "modified dig-in mode" I would then add the corresponding new notch. The only limitation might be in the case that my preferred new notch is too close to one of the old notches to have adequate material between the two. See attached pic.

What do others think?


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

You sounds like me ! I never want to commit to something before I am 100% sure that it will be exactly correct. It is good in one respect, but often takes longer. In the end, I am sure that you will be happier than you are now. Plus, I didn't like the idea of running studs on a nice driveway !


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

Studs are fine if you don't spin or slide and it's impossible to NOT slide with a track setup.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

RIT333 said:


> You sounds like me ! I never want to commit to something before I am 100% sure that it will be exactly correct. It is good in one respect, but often takes longer. In the end, I am sure that you will be happier than you are now. Plus, I didn't like the idea of running studs on a nice driveway !


Well given that, I would still be in the launch bay!

Get as much data as you can and make the best informed decision. 

Yep, I had a setback. Agreed its all good food for thought. I won't do one neighbor that has sealed. 

But I also found out it does not take many studs to get traction. 

So you can balance that all out for what works for you.


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## alyaz (Oct 18, 2020)

A little late to the party here, but I have used IGrips in my rubber tracks on my track loader. Made an incredible difference. Just measure your track or tire tread depth and with tracks make sure you know where your steel cords lie. Highly recommend IGrips, going to order some for my rubber Ariens tires too.


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