# Race Gas for the old Tecumseh



## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

What do you think about using ethanol free, leaded, racing gasoline for my 40 yr old Tecumseh sidevalve?

Here in Mass., USA, all gasoline is 10% alcohol or more. At the racing speedway nearby, I can get pure non-ethanol gas, with lead! For a few dollars more, I'll avoid the corrosive qualities of ethanol, get the lead the engine was designed for, and make my old engine last years more.

Your thoughts?


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I'd use nitrous as well....seriously, can't hurt.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

cranman said:


> I'd use nitrous as well....seriously, can't hurt.


And add boost, turn it up as much as it goes, and you can run it. Once. 

As far as the gas goes, the engine lasted 40 years without it, what's the benefit? Proper maintenance will take care of any problems.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

Hey Cranman, you are close to me. I'm talking about Columbus Energies, 1455 Us Hwy 6, Swansea MA, which has VP Racing fuel at the pump for $10/gallon. Leaded and no ethanol. Sweet...

If you are using nitrous on your blower then post the video!

Jsup, don't't be a kill-joy. I love my engines. Maybe you need therapy?


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

You could buy a can of that VP racing fuel - it's only about a hundred bucks for a 5 gallon can. Seriously if it's not a lot of money why not? Probably has a much longer shelf life too.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

dhazelton said:


> You could buy a can of that VP racing fuel - it's only about a hundred bucks for a 5 gallon can. Seriously if it's not a lot of money why not? Probably has a much longer shelf life too.


Sir, be real. I can get it the pump for less than half that. If you can't add to the thread then sit back and chill.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

The first sentence was not serious. My second sentence started with the word "Seriously...." so that tells you the previous sentence was not to be taken as such and I was agreeing with you that if it wasn't much money to go for it. YOU need to chill....


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

So if it is 40 years old it would be a 1977 or 78 vintage engine. I am not so sure it was designed for leaded fuel. 
The switch to unleaded was around 1974. 
If the octane level is about 100 or higher I would not do it. It may run worse since you can not adjust the timing. You could even burn up your exhaust valve since it burns slower.

If you are concerned about the ethanol......and you should a little bit. Get some 91 octane Aviation gas at your local small air field. I just bought some at around $5 per gallon. Or you could get the VP or True Fuel which is about $20-25 per gallon.
Don't sweat the small stuff!


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

The only ethanol-free gas around me is similar, leaded racing gas, for a similar price range. I'm glad to have the option available, at least, but I've never taken advantage of it. 

I'm not comfortable with the idea of using leaded gas, especially when I'm standing next to the engine and the exhaust. Maybe there's no real justification for that, but lead is not good for you, and frankly, my health (and peace of mind) is more important to me than the health of an engine. We all have to make our own decisions on this point, of course, and I'm not trying to impose mine on anyone, simply sharing my perspective. 

I've opted to use ethanol gas with stabilizer all the time (ie- stabilizer even in the middle of the season), and have not had any issues yet. I close the fuel shutoffs and run my carbs dry at the end of their seasons. If I really wanted to go ethanol-free, such as for off-season storage, I'd be more comfortable using TruFuel, the canned ethanol-free unleaded stuff you can get at Home Depot, etc. 

It's even more expensive, at ~$20/gallon, unfortunately. So I just use stabilizer. If I gunk up a carb despite my precautions, I'll clean it. Or if it really came to that, replace it. I've seen people talk about replacement carbs for $15-20 on eBay, etc. 

Again, only sharing my approach to the situation.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Go to Taunton airport and buy AV gas.....$5 gal.....


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

I failed to mention what RedOctobyr just did......lead is a neuro-toxin........You take your own chances.......if you don't mind your IQ being lowered a few points.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

race gas is a waste, just hit up a tractor supply and add some motor medic lead substitute they sell along with some stabilizer if your that worried, a 6 dollar bottle is good for about 20 gallons of gas, https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/motor-medic-lead-substitute-for-off-road-use-12-oz-bottle, 

the old alloy block and bore flat heads have steel valve seat inserts unlike a old car motor, these motors have seen unleaded gas since 1975, if they were to have valve problems it would have been decades ago.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

Hardening valve seats was a good business for a while for vintage car engine rebuilders. Now they say it isn't necessary and old cars run fine on the lead-free ethanol gas.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

cranman said:


> Go to Taunton airport and buy AV gas.....$5 gal.....


I haven't tried Taunton Airfield, but Mansfield just gave me a dismissive look and sent away me discourteously. 

RedOct, and others, it's not the lead so much as the ethanol. The corn lobby has prevented straight gas from being sold out here. Straight gas is better, and I'm not warm to others making decisions for me. Sure, after rebuilding the carb, replacing the fuel lines, etc, then engine will last as long as designed. Or,...I could just use regular gas that's been used for decades, until corn became king.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

"Straight gas is better, and I'm not warm to others making decisions for me..."

Sign216 - if you know the answer WHY ask the question? Do what you're gonna do.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Sign216 said:


> RedOct, and others, it's not the lead so much as the ethanol. The corn lobby has prevented straight gas from being sold out here. Straight gas is better


Sorry, yes, I understood that your concern is the ethanol. I personally just am uncomfortable with trading ethanol for lead. If it was unleaded, ethanol-free gas, I'd be all for it (especially at a reasonable price). 

I wish we could easily avoid ethanol in our gas as well. Alas, they didn't ask us.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

Engines have a way of speaking if we listen properly. It seems to me that whatever the engine's been getting for 40 years is probably what it wants. If not, it would have said so by now.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Hope I say what I understand correctly. Higher octane fuel takes higher compression and spark etc. to ignite it and gain the advantage of that higher octane. Increases in octane actually makes it harder to ignite and burn than lower octane, which is why it's specified for high compression engines (to help prevent pre-ignition etc.)


Stick with your 87-91 octane fuel, it's what's the engine is designed to run on.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

dhazelton said:


> Hardening valve seats was a good business for a while for vintage car engine rebuilders. Now they say it isn't necessary and old cars run fine on the lead-free ethanol gas.


yes it was, when we did a valve job, found well burnt seats, we machined the heads for hardened seat inserts, replaced valves, since many were sodium filled stems and not reface-able even thou many shops would, some times we reamed for Os stems or knurled the guides to return to stock size, or machined them for brass guide sleeves. machined for stem seals, lots of cash came in for sure to the machine shops. 

cars since the last of the leaded gas with cast iron heads have hardened cast in seats, some are flame hardened others go though a special heat hardening treatments, either way the process is simple and works .

the OPE alloy flat head blocks since they always had hard seats installed, there is no reason to worry, if the owner has worries,simple use of additives .esp. the most have stabilizer, in a good name brand gas, follow the owners manual for storage of over 30 days.then lay back,watch a few games, go fishing, a few cold ones or what ever one enjoys


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## Duff Daddy (Sep 22, 2014)

This is all I use in the rider and walk behind









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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

I gonna stick with the "no" side of this, for a few reasons.

The high octane will make it harder to start in cold weather, this well known in the car industry. GM even had service bulletins for this.

Race gas in not winterized, so it will be harder to start in cold temps

Tecumseh "tuned" the timing and A/F ratio for reg fuel, so there maybe some running issues.

Leaded fuel will leave more deposits in the combustion chamber/valves.

My op is find non ethanol regular grade, or don't fuss with it and use pump gas. Just be sure to drain the carb and tank at the end of the season.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

nevermind...


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

Non-ethanol isn't available at the pump in my state (Ma), and I was looking at race gas because;
- pump race gas it's cheaper than canned specialty gas at the hardware store. Cheap enough ($10/gal) to really use.
- no ethanol, which corrodes the white metal alloys of the carb, and old-style rubber/plastic used in the carb and fuel elements.

I see lead is a draw because although it's better for the valves, there is a health risk. 

Is the higher octane significantly harder to start? I must research this, I thought in low compression engines the higher octane just gave the same hp as low octane. And since the race gas is pumped, I'm assuming it's a winter blend now (could be wrong on that).


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

Sign216 said:


> Non-ethanol isn't available at the pump in my state (Ma), and I was looking at race gas because;
> - pump race gas it's cheaper than canned specialty gas at the hardware store. Cheap enough ($10/gal) to really use.
> - no ethanol, which corrodes the white metal alloys of the carb, and old-style rubber/plastic used in the carb and fuel elements.
> 
> ...


Only thing that make race gas for racing is the high octane, Only thing octane does is slow the ignition of the fuel in the cylinder and if you use it on a lower compression car anyway your engine will knock and run like crap, not sure what it will do on a tec engine but I wouldn’t risk it.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

#92-6E-23: SERVICE GUILD: INFO. ON THE EFFECT OF FUEL VOLATILITY - (Nov 30, 1992) 
REVISION # 1: THIS BULLETIN REVISED TO INCLUDE THE 1993 MODEL YEAR. 
REVISION # 2: THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO ADD A CUSTOMER LETTER. THE LETTER MAY BE FOUND AT THE END OF THIS TEXT. 
BACKGROUND INFORMATION
RECENT CHANGES IN EPA REGULATIONS HAVE EFFECTIVELY LOWERED THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE FUEL VOLATILITY. VOLATILITY, WHICH CAN BE DEFINED AS A GASOLINE'S ABILITY TO CHANGE FROM A LIQUID TO A VAPOR, DIRECTLY AFFECTS THE AMOUNT OF EVAPORATIVE EMISSIONS PRODUCED BY THE FUEL. LOWER VOLATILITY MEANS THAT LESS UNBURNED HYDROCARBONS WILL BE RELEASED INTO THE ATMOSPHERE DURING FUEL STORAGE AND TRANSFER. UNFORTUNATELY, REDUCING FUEL VOLATILITY CAN CAUSE PROBLEMS DURING COLD ENGINE OPERATION WHEN LOW TEMPERATURES LIMIT THE FUEL'S ABILITY TO VAPORIZE AND BURN. 
TWO TERMS ARE OFTEN USED TO DESCRIBE VOLATILITY CHARACTERISTICS. THESE ARE: 
*DISTILLATION CURVE:* 
O THE DISTILLATION CURVE IS A GRAPH SHOWING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TEMPERATURE AND THE PERCENTAGE OF FUEL EVAPORATED. THE FUEL COMPONENTS THAT BOIL AT RELATIVELY LOW TEMPERATURES (BELOW ABOUT 90 DEGREES F) ARE KNOWN AS THE "LIGHT ENDS" AND ARE ESSENTIAL FOR GOOD COLD ENGINE PERFORMANCE. THE "HEAVY ENDS", WHICH BEGIN TO BOIL AT ABOUT 300 DEGREES F, CONTAIN THE MOST ENERGY BUT ARE MORE DIFFICULT TO BURN. LABORATORY ANALYSIS IS USUALLY REQUIRED TO DETERMINE THE DISTILLATION CURVE OF A GASOLINE SAMPLE. 
REID VAPOR PRESSURE (RVP):
O RVP IS THE PRESSURE (PSI) THAT VAPORIZED FUEL EXERTS WITHIN A SEALED CONTAINER AS IT IS HEATED TO 100 DEGREES F. THE HIGHER THE RVP THE HIGHER THE FUEL VOLATILITY. WHILE RVP IS READILY TESTED IN THE FIELD, FUELS OF THE SAME RVP CAN HAVE DIFFERENT DISTILLATION CURVES AND COLD DRIVEABILITY CHARACTERISTICS. 
FUEL VOLATILITY WILL VARY DEPENDING ON GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION AND TIME OF YEAR (FUEL INTENDED TO BE USED IN HIGHER AMBIENT CONDITIONS IS FORMULATED WITH LESS VOLATILITY). THIS CAN MAKE COLD DRIVEABILITY AS BIG A PROBLEM DURING SUMMER MONTHS AS DURING THE WINTER. THERE MAY BE ADDITIONAL VARIATION IN THE VOLATILITY CHARACTERISTICS OF PUMP GASOLINE CAUSED BY THE DIFFERENCES IN FUEL MANUFACTURERS, BLENDS, AND STORAGE TIMES. AS EPA FUEL VOLATILITY STANDARDS ARE LOWERED, VARIATIONS BETWEEN FUELS (WHICH MAY FURTHER REDUCE VOLATILITY) BECOME CRITICAL FACTORS INFLUENCING COLD ENGINE PERFORMANCE. NO MATTER HOW THOROUGHLY THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FUEL QUALITY AND COLD DRIVEABILITY IS UNDERSTOOD, ELIMINATING FUEL QUALITY AS AN ISSUE CAN BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE: 
TOOLS WHICH TEST FUEL VOLATILITY MEASURE ONLY RVP, NOT THE DISTILLATION CURVE. 
O THE DISTILLATION CURVE HAS A GREATER EFFECT ON COLD DRIVEABILITY THAN RVP. 
THE CUSTOMER MAY PERCEIVE RAISING THE FUEL QUALITY ISSUE AS AN ATTEMPT TO EVADE HIS PROBLEM. 
O THIS MAY CAUSE DIFFICULTY IN GETTING ACCURATE FUEL USAGE INFORMATION. 
WATER AND OTHER TYPES OF FUEL CONTAMINATION MAY CAUSE CONTINUED DRIVEABILITY COMPLAINTS. 
O THE PROBLEM SYMPTOMS MAY REMAIN EVEN THOUGH THE VEHICLE HAS BEEN REFUELED SEVERAL TIMES WITH A QUALITY GASOLINE. 
CUSTOMER CONCERNS
CONDITION: POOR COLD ENGINE OPERATION SYMPTOMS MAY INCLUDE - HARD START/EXTENDED CRANK, STALLING, BACKFIRING, HESITATION, ROUGH IDLE, DETONATION, AND/OR LACK OF POWER. 
POSSIBLE CAUSE: LOW VOLATILITY FUEL WILL NOT VAPORIZE SUFFICIENTLY TO ALLOW NORMAL COMBUSTION. 
CORRECTION: REPLACE FUEL.
*DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURE:* 
1. PERFORM BASIC SYSTEM CHECKS IN SECTION 6E OF THE SERVICE INFORMATION MANUAL. 
2. CHECK FOR SERVICE BULLETINS WHICH RELATE TO COLD DRIVEABILITY ISSUES SPECIFIC TO THE PROBLEM VEHICLE. 
O AN UPDATED ENGINE CONTROL CALIBRATION OR SERVICE PROCEDURE MAY BE AVAILABLE TO MAKE THE ENGINE LESS SUSCEPTIBLE TO LOW VOLATILITY FUELS. 
3. IF BASIC CHECKS DO NOT REVEAL A VEHICLE FAULT, THEN ADVISE THE CUSTOMER THAT FUEL QUALITY MAY BE AN ISSUE. RECOMMEND THE FOLLOWING ACTIONS: 
O CHANGE BRANDS OF FUEL O USE 87 OCTANE GASOLINE, UNLESS THE VEHICLE IS DESIGNED FOR PREMIUM GASOLINE. O TRY TO EMPTY THE FUEL TANK AS MUCH AS PRACTICAL BEFORE REFILLING. O RUN A MINIMUM OF THREE TANKS OF NEW FUEL BEFORE RETURNING FOR SERVICE. 
4. IF ABOVE STEPS ARE INEFFECTIVE, DO NOT PROCEED WITH ADDITIONAL VEHICLE DIAGNOSIS AND/OR PARTS REPLACEMENT UNTIL THE FUEL TANK HAS BEEN DRAINED AND REFILLED WITH A KNOWN GOOD QUALITY GASOLINE AT THE DEALERSHIP. 
5. IF THE PROBLEM REMAINS, REFER TO SERVICE INFORMATION MANUAL, SERVICE BULLETINS, AND/OR TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE SYSTEM. 
REFERENCE INFORMATION
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REGARDING FUEL AND ITS EFFECT ON ENGINE DRIVEABILITY CAN BE FOUND IN THE FOLLOWING BOOKLETS AND THEIR COMPANION VIDEO TAPES. 
OLDSMOBILE SERVICE ALERT (92-3): TODAY'S FUEL AND ITS EFFECT ON DRIVEABILITY. 
BUICK KNOW-HOW (KH-139): DRIVEABILITY DIAGNOSIS: FUELS
THE NEXT PAGE EXPLAINS, IN BASIC TERMS, THE EFFECTS OF DIFFERENT FUELS. THIS PAGE MAY BE COPIED AND DISTRIBUTED TO OWNERS YOU FEEL MAY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH FUEL. 
DEAR CADILLAC OWNER:
AS WITH MANY OTHER THINGS YOU PUT IN YOUR VEHICLE, THE FUEL YOU USE AFFECTS THE WAY YOUR VEHICLE OPERATES. YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED THAT YOUR ENGINE RUNS DIFFERENTLY FOR A WHILE AFTER FILLING UP AT A GAS STATION YOU DO NOT NORMALLY USE. UNFORTUNATELY, THE FUEL YOU USE CAN EVEN CAUSE PROBLEMS SUCH AS HARD STARTING, STALLING, BACK- FIRING, HESITATION, ROUGH IDLE, LACK OF POWER, OR SPARK KNOCK. 
ALTHOUGH FUEL MAY LOOK THE SAME EVERYWHERE, ALL FUELS ARE NOT THE SAME. FUELS ARE BLENDED DIFFERENTLY BASED ON THE TIME OF YEAR THE FUEL IS BLENDED, BY WHOM, AND IN WHAT PART OF THE COUNTRY. EVEN AFTER THE FUEL IS BLENDED, IT CAN CHANGE BASED ON WHERE AND HOW LONG IT IS STORED. ALSO, THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY RECENTLY CHANGED THE GUIDELINES USED TO BLEND FUELS. ALL OF THESE FACTORS AFFECT FUEL PROPERTIES WHICH IN TURN AFFECT THE WAY YOUR VEHICLE PERFORMS. 
CONSEQUENTLY, IF YOU BRING YOUR VEHICLE IN WITH A DRIVEABILITY CONCERN LIKE ONE OF THOSE LISTED ABOVE, YOUR DEALER MAY REPLACE THE FUEL IN YOUR TANK OR ASK YOU TO CHANGE THE GAS STATION YOU USE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME TO DETERMINE IF THE FUEL YOU ARE GETTING IS THE CAUSE OF THE CONDITION. IF YOUR DEALER MENTIONS FUEL IS THE CAUSE OF A CONCERN OR SUGGESTS SWITCHING GAS STATIONS TO SEE IF FUEL IS THE CAUSE, PLEASE FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS. YOUR DEALER IS BEST EQUIPPED TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT FUEL IS THE CAUSE OF THE CONDITION. 
AS ALWAYS, THE AIM OF CADILLAC AND YOUR CADILLAC DEALER IS TO SATISFY YOU, THE CUSTOMER, WITH OUR VEHICLES. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ABOUT YOUR CADILLAC, WE STAND READY TO SERVE YOU. 
CADILLAC MOTOR CAR COMPANY GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION








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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Dauntae said:


> Only thing that make race gas for racing is the high octane, Only thing octane does is slow the ignition of the fuel in the cylinder and if you use it on a lower compression car anyway your engine will knock and run like crap, not sure what it will do on a tec engine but I wouldn’t risk it.


Exactly right. The timing will be too retarded to burn high octane. If the engine is set up (timing, compression, cam) for lower octane fuel, it will run like crap on high octane. 100% right. Excellent point.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

scrappy said:


> #92-6E-23: SERVICE GUILD: INFO. ON THE EFFECT OF FUEL VOLATILITY - (Nov 30, 1992)
> REVISION # 1: THIS BULLETIN REVISED TO INCLUDE THE 1993 MODEL YEAR.
> REVISION # 2: THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO ADD A CUSTOMER LETTER. THE LETTER MAY BE FOUND AT THE END OF THIS TEXT.
> BACKGROUND INFORMATION
> ...


Scrappy,
Great bulletin. Thanks for bringing real information to thread. One sentence seems to say that lower octane will give better vaporization, especially in cold weather, although most of the bulletin kept repeating "change brands of gasoline." 

Dilemma; Race gas avoids the corrosive effects of ethanol, and lower octane regular gas gives best winter performance. 
Duff Daddy has the best decision, use specialty small engine fuel sold in cans. I can get that around $20/gallon. A little painful.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Sign216 said:


> Scrappy,
> Great bulletin. Thanks for bringing real information to thread. One sentence seems to say that lower octane will give better vaporization, especially in cold weather, although most of the bulletin kept repeating "change brands of gasoline."
> 
> Dilemma; Race gas avoids the corrosive effects of ethanol, and lower octane regular gas gives best winter performance.
> Duff Daddy has the best decision, use specialty small engine fuel sold in cans. I can get that around $20/gallon. A little painful.


 

Racing gas is a waste of money for a snowblower. Just buy the least expensive nonoxygenated (ethanol free) gasoline and leave it at that. I buy the 91 octane gasoline which has a sticker on the pump that says nonoxygenated ethanol free for collector cars and outboard engines and snowmobiles since ethanol blends are not the best for 2 stroke snowmobile engines and even small 4 stroke engines. For the automobiles well they can handle a 10% ethanol blend with out any problems what so ever since they manufacturers designed the engines to run on this gasoline.


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## Duff Daddy (Sep 22, 2014)

Sign216 said:


> Scrappy,
> Great bulletin. Thanks for bringing real information to thread. One sentence seems to say that lower octane will give better vaporization, especially in cold weather, although most of the bulletin kept repeating "change brands of gasoline."
> 
> Dilemma; Race gas avoids the corrosive effects of ethanol, and lower octane regular gas gives best winter performance.
> Duff Daddy has the best decision, use specialty small engine fuel sold in cans. I can get that around $20/gallon. A little painful.


I'll mix mine throughout the season. To start/end I'll use it and when it looks like we'll get hammered and I'll be running through it, I'll use pump fuel 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Sign216 said:


> Scrappy,
> Great bulletin. Thanks for bringing real information to thread. One sentence seems to say that lower octane will give better vaporization, especially in cold weather, although most of the bulletin kept repeating "change brands of gasoline."
> 
> Dilemma; Race gas avoids the corrosive effects of ethanol, and lower octane regular gas gives best winter performance.
> Duff Daddy has the best decision, use specialty small engine fuel sold in cans. I can get that around $20/gallon. A little painful.


As long as your ok with paying that price for gas. What we do with my dad's '67 Tecumseh is run pump gas that is 10% or less ethanol. (same here no other pump gas available) After every use the fuel is shut off, and the engine idles until the carb runs dry. It's a pain but so far for the last 10 yrs the carb has been flawless. At the end of the season we drain the tank.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

Duff Daddy said:


> I'll mix mine throughout the season. To start/end I'll use it and when it looks like we'll get hammered and I'll be running through it, I'll use pump fuel
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


That's a compromise my wallet can live with.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

GustoGuy said:


> Racing gas is a waste of money for a snowblower. Just buy the least expensive nonoxygenated (ethanol free) gasoline and leave it at that. I buy the 91 octane gasoline which has a sticker on the pump that says nonoxygenated ethanol free.


Sadly, we don't all have the same options for ethanol-free. I've checked on the ethanol-free-finding website (https://www.pure-gas.org). I can't get it at normal stations around me, even if it's premium. Similar to Sign216, my only option is to go up to New Hampshire, and go to the station that sells race gas.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

GustoGuy said:


> Racing gas is a waste of money for a snowblower. Just buy the least expensive nonoxygenated (ethanol free) gasoline and leave it at that. I buy the 91 octane gasoline which has a sticker on the pump that says nonoxygenated ethanol free for collector cars and outboard engines and snowmobiles since ethanol blends are not the best for 2 stroke snowmobile engines and even small 4 stroke engines. For the automobiles well they can handle a 10% ethanol blend with out any problems what so ever since they manufacturers designed the engines to run on this gasoline.


Here on the east coast we don't have a choice. It's all 10% ethanol.


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## Duff Daddy (Sep 22, 2014)

RedOctobyr said:


> Sadly, we don't all have the same options for ethanol-free. I've checked on the ethanol-free-finding website (https://www.pure-gas.org). I can't get it at normal stations around me, even if it's premium. Similar to Sign216, my only option is to go up to New Hampshire, and go to the station that sells race gas.


Home Depot sells true fuel in gallon cans same with small equipment/hardware shops 

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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Duff Daddy said:


> Home Depot sells true fuel in gallon cans same with small equipment/hardware shops
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk


The depot here sells it for $20.00 a gallon plus tax. No thanks.


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## toms (Nov 17, 2017)

Also if you read the "gallon" can it is only 110 oz not 128 oz.


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## Duff Daddy (Sep 22, 2014)

toms said:


> Also if you read the "gallon" can it is only 110 oz not 128 oz.


Home Depot doesn't sell vp but they typically do have "true fuel"

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## KOBO (Jul 15, 2017)

Just a note on those ethanol free cans of gas. I try and stock up on them at walmart at the end of the summer season, when they're cutting back on all the yard stuff. I usually find the 1 'gallon' 2 & 4 cycle on clearance for like $4.00 a piece. Since they last a couple years they're fine for the next season. 

YMMV

K


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Cool, that's good to know, thanks! At that price, it's certainly worth being able to use at the end of a season, or to put in 2-stroke engines that may sit around for a long time.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

jmo, if you cant get everyday pump gas that has no corn squeezins, run your gear on crappy fuel with a good stabilizer. when its time to lay the gear up for the off season or even a foreseen extended non use, drain the fuel and then put some canned fuel in the tank and run it until you are sure the carb is getting the expensive fuel. you can do a few machines with one gallon.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

KOBO said:


> Just a note on those ethanol free cans of gas. I try and stock up on them at walmart at the end of the summer season, when they're cutting back on all the yard stuff. I usually find the 1 'gallon' 2 & 4 cycle on clearance for like $4.00 a piece. Since they last a couple years they're fine for the next season.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> K


Kobo, thanks for that tip. 
But now I have to wait 3/4 of a year for the "end of summer season."
Ain't that always the case?


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

KOBO said:


> Just a note on those ethanol free cans of gas. I try and stock up on them at walmart at the end of the summer season, when they're cutting back on all the yard stuff. I usually find the 1 'gallon' 2 & 4 cycle on clearance for like $4.00 a piece. Since they last a couple years they're fine for the next season.
> 
> YMMV
> 
> K


Kobo,
Is canned gas meant for summer use, sub-par for cold weather?

Vehicle fuel has a summer mix and a winter mix, with the winter mix being more volatile. I'm not sure if canned small engine gas has a seasonal mix, but it might be less volatile for longer storage. That may make it a poor winter fuel, vs fresh pump gas. Although canned gas is ethanol-free, it's lower volatility is something to consider.

Just thinking.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

cranman said:


> Go to Taunton airport and buy AV gas.....$5 gal.....


Sign216.....here is your most sensible solution. If there is another airport closer by then check that out. Where I go they call it MO Gas. Ethanol Free 91 octane.

After reading this thread.......For those who still want to use 100 octane, I say go ahead and experience it.

Run your machine at night and watch the muffler turn red.

Everyone learns in different ways.
Cheers!


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## pitbull plowing (Mar 5, 2016)

I am in the Chicago metro area and all our fuel has 10% crap in it. that being said, I only use Shell or Mobil and always get the premium grade and add Sea-Foam to it. so far never had any starting or running issues with that and at the end of the season or when theres not going to be any snow worth doing turn the fuel valve off and run it until the carb is dry.


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## Attaboy (Jan 13, 2018)

About 20 years ago I became quite friendly with the son of my local Ariens, Toro, Columbia, Lawn-Boy, Stihl dealer, this guy is a mechanic and really knows small engines, to avoid carb problems he mentioned to use ethanol free gas in all my small engines as ethanol really did substantial damage to small engine carbs and fuel systems ( their #1 source of revenue ) and if ethanol free was unavailable use a minimum 91 octane gas to help with the ethanol problem. 

Well in Canada anyways Shell V-Power is both 100% ethanol free and is 91 octane gas as well, I have been using Shell V-Power ever since in all my 2 & 4 cycles and have never been back to them with carb or fuel related problems. Shell V-Power is easily available just about everywhere.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Attaboy said:


> About 20 years ago I became quite friendly with the son of my local Ariens, Toro, Columbia, Lawn-Boy, Stihl dealer, this guy is a mechanic and really knows small engines, to avoid carb problems he mentioned to use ethanol free gas in all my small engines as ethanol really did substantial damage to small engine carbs and fuel systems ( their #1 source of revenue ) and if ethanol free was unavailable use a minimum 91 octane gas to help with the ethanol problem.
> 
> Well in Canada anyways Shell V-Power is both 100% ethanol free and is 91 octane gas as well, I have been using Shell V-Power ever since in all my 2 & 4 cycles and have never been back to them with carb or fuel related problems. Shell V-Power is easily available just about everywhere.


Out of curiosity did this gentleman every say why 91 octane helps with ethanol problems?
I am hoping to learn something.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

He said that, in Canada, one particular Shell grade, as well as the 91 octane, are ethanol free. I assumed that was why they are better for this, as they avoid the ethanol altogether. 

Here in the US, at least around me, this is not true. 91 octane still has ethanol, so I don't think there would be an advantage in using 91, based on the gas I can buy.


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## Attaboy (Jan 13, 2018)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> Out of curiosity did this gentleman every say why 91 octane helps with ethanol problems?
> I am hoping to learn something.


 
It was a long time ago, it was something about slower fuel degradation and the octane level remaining higher even after some loss and remaining a bit more constant or stable over time, something like that anyways.


I believe it was also the best one single solution he could offer to cover all needs of 2 cycle and 4 cycle small engines.


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## Attaboy (Jan 13, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> He said that, in Canada, one particular Shell grade, as well as the 91 octane, are ethanol free. I assumed that was why they are better for this, as they avoid the ethanol altogether.
> 
> Here in the US, at least around me, this is not true. 91 octane still has ethanol, so I don't think there would be an advantage in using 91, based on the gas I can buy.



You will find that most marina's just about everywhere sell ethanol free gasoline. 


Here is a link you may find useful as well as a source for ethanol free fuel: https://www.pure-gas.org/


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Thanks for your reply and link Attaboy. I suspect your freind liked the 91 pretty much because it was ethanol free and it was a good octane for 2 cycles which make plenty of sense. I have never heard of octan lowering by sitting around. Maybe........ I have heard of gas refiners cheating and the octane has been a hair lower than what is on the pump lable.

I worked at a gas station when in college and the tanker once put the Hi Test in the 87 tank. So for that tank the customers got hi test for the price of 87.
I suspect it has happened the otherway around a few times too.

Thanks for the link.....just in case people are thinking they can go to an air port or marina and fill up their car with E0.....you can't or at least it is forbidden...it is illegal....since that gas does not have road tax you can not use it on anything that drives on a road.


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## Attaboy (Jan 13, 2018)

I probably use 80 - 100 litres of ethanol free 91 octane fuel ( 20 - 25 USA gallons ) per year between all my 2 & 4 cycle small engines, the additional gas cost for non-ethanol and higher octane is really negligible and in the long run much less expensive than hauling only one machine in to my local small equipment dealer for a fuel related problem, these guys are now charging about $85.00 per hour and charge full price for their so called carb kits.


Note that marina's normally charge significantly more for their ethanol free gas than what you would normally pay for gas at your local gas stations, however IMHO still worth it in many ways.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I called around to a few marinas in the area, a few years ago, and none of them said they sold ethanol-free gas. I didn't pursue it further, though. 

Perhaps some place in the area does sell it. Or maybe it's a question they don't get, and perhaps didn't realize if their gas actually IS ethanol-free, I don't know. For now, I'm just using pump gas with stabilizer.


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## Attaboy (Jan 13, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> I called around to a few marinas in the area, a few years ago, and none of them said they sold ethanol-free gas. I didn't pursue it further, though.
> 
> Perhaps some place in the area does sell it. Or maybe it's a question they don't get, and perhaps didn't realize if their gas actually IS ethanol-free, I don't know. For now, I'm just using pump gas with stabilizer.


 
Marina's do not want to be bothered selling gas to anything other than a boat tied up at their re-fuelling station, therefore they normally do not advertise ethanol free product except for the ones who also have off shore pumps as well.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

I found a solution. I bought a 5 gal. gerry can and keep it in my work car. Work sends me about, and when I go to NH I'll fill it up. NH (the freedom state) still has pumps selling ethanol-free gasoline at standard prices. That should keep me supplied w quality fuel. 

Joe


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## KingDavey (Jan 31, 2018)

I use Sunoco 260 gtx or Sunoco Optima in my 2 strokes every fill and 4 strokes for long term storage. Both are ethanol and lead free. If I remember correctly it was about $65 for a 5 gallon container. Not cost effective to use in the 4 stroke engines every fill up, but the 2 strokes and storage, well worth it. Can't get E-free gas at the pump anywhere here in Western Mass.


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## Dannoman (Jan 16, 2018)

Shell V Power


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## usawsn (Dec 3, 2020)

Also in Mass.

I recently filled up 2 gallons of VP Racing 110 gas in NH to avoid ethonal.

I just saw this thread and am concerned about using it. If it would cause issues, then what do I do with the 2 gallons I already had? Thanks.


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

welcome to the SBF

for one don't use race gas 110 is to high it burns to slow for a fixed timing motor. all you need is a good gas from a good name high volume pumping station . add stabil keep only what you can use in 30 days to play safe stay away from the crazy name better known as delta and others around me in nj 
as what to do personally i would mix it down, 1 qt to 4 of 87 or 89


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

usawsn said:


> I recently filled up 2 gallons of VP Racing 110 gas in NH to avoid ethonal.
> I just saw this thread and am concerned about using it. If it would cause issues, then what do I do with the 2 gallons I already had? Thanks.


Pour it into your car's tank.


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

I take all my 110 race gas from the Drag car at the end of the year, cut it with 91 non-oxy, boy is sure smells good plowing. I call it recycling so nothing goes to waste.


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

tabora said:


> Pour it into your car's tank.


as long as it's not leaded race gas


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## usawsn (Dec 3, 2020)

This is the leaded race gas. So how can I get rid of it now?

Maybe just use 1 to 4 ratio with 87 to reduce the octane to 91 then use on the snowblower?


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

only motor it can be used on is ope in a car even that small amount will harm the catalytic convertor


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

A word of caution regarding higher octane pump gas... Make sure it is ethanol free high octane fuel. This is because ethanol is a natural octane booster, therefore, higher octane = more ethanol. 

Regarding ethanol free gasoline in Massachusetts, a check on pure-gas.org does show some choices. If you're calling/visiting a smaller airfield, tell them you want to purchase MOGAS which is 91 octane. This is what I use in my OPE and genset. Most places I patronize want the extra business, but there has been an instance in southern Maine where some local insane moonbats threatened to call the EPA and/or sue a local airport for selling fuel to people who do not own an aircraft. Despite the fact that it isn't illegal and makes no sense at all, the owners were intimidated enough to stop the practice. They told me this themselves and it may be why one poster got the cold shoulder in Mansfield.


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