# Honda's badly designed snowblower gearbox, my ideas on a fix.



## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Well first off don't take the advice of some who always find an excuse to look the other way. It is a crappy design. It is under engineered.


I will state as I did in another post, I am not a Honda hater. I own a Honda Fit, just sold a Honda Odyssey and Honda generator, have two Honda snowblowers, and a Honda lawnmower. I am just not a fanboy. I just want Honda to get it right, like they do in so many other areas. Just not in their snowblowers. They have become very complacent.



Why do I say that....seems to always be one, two, or even three threads on this form all season talking about this sub-par badly designed gearbox. I myself have added the harshly engaging hydro transmission to the mix, that some agree with me and some don't. 





Robert asks, "What should Honda do?" 

How would I fix the problem without completely throwing the gearbox away and starting over. 


1) Fix the harsh engagement of the hydro transmission. That can be done with revised valving. This alone would reduce pin breakage because many people use their Honda like every other snowblower made in the world which in turn pounds the tiny pin with too much PSI of pressure EVERY time you engage the transmission.

2) The obvious answer is increase shaft size by 30% 

3) Increase pin size by 35% with above shaft size increase and research to use a better stronger pin while you are at it. Make this pin available as a stocked individual part with it's own part number. 

4A) Seal the gearbox better to hold oil. Option 4B: Seal the gearbox better and add two heavy duty grease zerks with large base so we can grease the gears (gears are pancaked = a zerk for each gear tier) once or twice a season. I have no problem with option 4A seeing once you seal better and have a beefed up drive train and you can get grease where it is needed there will be minimal need for oil. 

5) Make the revisions available as a kit, with it's own part number at an affordable price so you can "upgrade" with the newer designed drive train from the older, badly designed drive train. 

6) Try to design "the fix" by increasing shaft size through a stepped up and then stepped down shaft size internally so existing case/bearings and drive train can be used. Increasing shaft size in the key "gear/pin area" to accommodate the larger pin size. Machining a "very smooth" (<--slow CNC feed speed) large radius on the step up and step down of this pin hub to reduce chance of stressed twist/sheer point from a hard abrupt machine change in a stress area. 

7) Going the above #6 route, with step up and step down shaft would let Honda even increase internal shaft size and pin size as high as 200%. I vote for the massive increase in pin size more then the 35% stated above. Let's go with the 200% increase. 

So the complete and final fix is there. They just have to do it and pull their head out of the sand.


8) If Honda can designed a fix as per #6 it could be sold to the customer in kit form and still make Honda profit at an est. $160-$175 and be added to the future production machines for what say $15 a machine extra?? 

8a) One shaft with step up and step down "hub" for increased pin size. 

8b) One new gear that fits large shaft hub and increased pin size.

8c) One new large pin



I had a Audi repair shop years ago and i would work on Asian cars here and there. Why is it they would ALWAYS have multiple mid year revisions fixing issues where they saw a problem with a part of a mechanism. WHY can't Honda do the same with it's badly designed snowblower gearbox/hrdro trans valving? 




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## FLSTN (Sep 19, 2014)

*grease zerks*

Also add grease zerks to the augers... Can't believe they don't. Ariens has them !


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

No matter how much engineering, re-engineering and more re-engineering is done to any machine, someone somewhere will always find a weakness or deficiency. It's not a perfect world and operating conditions vary (residential vs commercial, babied machines vs brutalized machines, etc). If the majority of folks who use these machines (regardless of brand) sing high praises about performance and longevity, I'm not sure why a manufacturer would invest significant funding to redesign something a handful of consumers identify as an engineering problem. I get flat tires from time to time, but I certainly don't expect Good Year to redesign their tires based on my one incident. Not trying to trivialize your point. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

And make it out of titanium! Geez, you can buy a titanium bike why not a snowblower.

And where is my remote control option?!? It's cold out there, I want to stay inside and operate it! I can remote control an inexpensive litte radio controlled car. Come on Honda what is wrong with you.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Why do all the Asian car manufactures fix their parts problems mid stream with revisions and Honda can't in their snowblower line? Why did they do it and Honda can't with their snowblower line? Sometimes it is a very trivial cheap change, sometimes it is a more expensive change. It is not necessarily a change in a safety area. It's change to make it better for better sake.


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Apple Guy said:


> An the excuses for a bad design from the fanboys keep coming.


Yup. You got me. I'm drinking the Kool Aid. Guess I'm just blinded by years and years of trouble free performance with only minimal basic maintenance on all three machines. Good luck with your soapbox campaign.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Freezn said:


> Yup. You got me. I'm drinking the Kool Aid. Guess I'm just blinded by years and years of trouble free performance with only minimal basic maintenance on all three machines. Good luck with your soapbox campaign.



Thanks for the good luck gesture. I hope I will get somewhere to have Honda lift a finger. Why would anyone care if someone is there to get a manufacture improve a product. You may disagree, but smart ass comments are stupid if you ask me. A fanboy throws out smart ass comments. I know I am and ex Apple fanboy and know the game.

While you guys say only a few people are rebuilding the crappy gearbox, I see many that do, when the other post are all over the board are with other issues not costing large sums of money and they don't seem to be the same issue over and over again like the weak gearbox. So I do see a problem that I feel is far worse. You may feel is not a problem. Then just state it as that. As you did in your last post. I am not just say this to you because you were not a smart ass like some others are , I am just posting it here because it is a post.


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

WoW! Knives are flying low....


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## AriensPro1128 (Nov 9, 2014)

Not really. I consider it tongue-in-cheek.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Everyone has an opinion but name calling isn't appropriate.
Please express yourself without making it personal when responding to another member.


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## c3po (Mar 21, 2014)

I do agree with Apple Guy that there could be a design flaw, but that is only if the machine is used the wrong way. I have had my Honda928WAS for 14 years and my driveway is 100 feet long by 18 feet wide, there is also another section of the driveway that goes towards the old garage that is 18 feet long by 18 feet wide. I also snow blow 3 other driveways that are 100 feet long by 9 feet wide with another section going into the garage that is 18 feet long by 18 feet wide.

I have not had any problems, but then again I do go slow, I believe donnyboy73 in his video stated that the problem he saw when the pin would break is that people were having the machine go forward and there was to much snow so that the wheels or tracks were not moving. The less snow you have, the faster you can go, more snow you need to go slower. I believe he also said that jamming real fast from drive to reverse, meaning rocking the trans also caused problems. I also have a thought that this problem is happening because people are going to fast if the snow is high and there is a strain on the gears and shaft.

I have always kept my snow blower in a garage in the winter and in the shed in the summer, some of these machines that have had issues seem to have rust in them which means they are kept outside or when they got salt they were not cleaned off. I have always gone out before the plows came through and thrown salt down so I have not had any problems with corrosion. Back in the fall I finally did a light cleaning and waxed everything. This thread has taught me to keep using the snow blower at a slow pace depending on how much snow needs to be blown.

Maybe it would be nice if Honda had a video showing how to use the snow blower under different snow conditions. We had 13 inches of snow here last Saturday, I got out when the snow was ending about 8 p.m. because the temp was going above freezing and they were talking about a bit of sleet and maybe rain. I finished around midnight and everyone else with a snow blower was out the next day having issues because the temperature was 35 degrees, all that nice fluffy snow had turned to slush, so half of the snow was barely getting blown off the driveway and some of the rest was on the driveway, so they had to get the shovel out. Sometimes blowing snow is slow, but definetly faster than shoveling, if you want to go fast then get out more often to blow the snow.


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## RoyP (Oct 16, 2014)

I brought a Honda for it's name quality.....I have found just to opposite since owning it. Buy a Honda car, never.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Fact is, there is no affordable, universally perfect machine. They all have weaknesses, and things that some folks do not care for in their current form. For most of us, we either overlook their shortcomings, or grow accustomed to them. If we do not choose to do so, then we seek out something else that we believe will meet our needs. 

There is room for consumer feedback, and I think that feedback is healthy, if not beneficial for a manufacture to consider when meeting the needs to their market. And as much as I love to have an intellectual exercise of engineering design, I think that, and hope, these suggestions are finding their way to the manufacturers. In essence, the changes will never happen, unless that occurs.


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## sr71 (Mar 25, 2013)

Apple Guy: a refreshing solution! Reminds me of a saying that I wish more people would heed, "…if you're going to bring me a problem….be prepared to offer a solution". I personally have not had an issue with my 1132. Has worked for 14+ years as advertised. Stihl and Echo are other brands that have rocked for me (perhaps luck) but that said, I know others have not been so lucky.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

FLSTN said:


> Also add grease zerks to the augers... Can't believe they don't. Ariens has them !


I waited one season to pull apart my auger/impeller to re-grease them. They were badly greased and rust already started. You need to pull the impeller from the shaft to get at that shaft and that one was worse on my machine. I bathed all three in anti-seize compound. I am just saying here, don't forget the impeller shaft greasing.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

sr71 said:


> Apple Guy: a refreshing solution! "…if you're going to bring me a problem….be prepared to offer a solution".


Very good point and that's what he did in the first post. He didn't just rant he went into some detain on what he thought would make it a better machine and address what he saw as poor design or weak points.


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## Surge (Dec 31, 2013)

It sounds like the drive pin could be strengthened, but I do not possess the knowledge to know for sure. Some people put on over forty hours a season on their machines, and their experiences with gearbox reliability would likely carry the most weight. Other users may only put five to ten hours of use per year, and those machines may last over twenty years before experiencing problems, as would most other decent brands.
I have a Honda car and two honda mowers, and love how they run and are easy to maintain. But I passed on buying the blower due to not being close to a dealer, price, and a few other less important concerns(hand warmers, handle bars). It would be helpful if those commenting on how good their machines are, or how many problems they are having indicated the hours of annual usage that they put on them, and if they were purchased new or used. A used blower could have been abused by the previous owner/s and information about that type of blower would not be as useful in determining reliability, IMO. C3po did a good job of describing his usage.
It seems like you may have to go slow when blowing heavy snow. Is that just something that is advisable for Honda, or should that advice be followed by all other brands of blowers? I only slow down when doing the EOD or when the snow is as high or higher than the blower. This has me wondering if I should go slower? My machine does not seem to be straining.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

I clear snow very slowly with mine as well. Sometimes I get ticked off because I feel that with the price I paid I should be able to get done quicker than my neighbor with a cheap Craftsman. For someone laying down $2,300 plus tax on a 7 hp machine they should be getting a bomb proof unit, not one you need to baby. 

Mother Honda wastes all kinds of money on moronic motorcycle styling exercises (Vultus and Rune come to mind) that I think they could invest in a beefier drive train and add a few grease fittings to an overpriced blower. Different divisions, I know...Honda never likes being told that they are wrong.


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## sr71 (Mar 25, 2013)

Surge…for me I let the engine sound (of any machine) tell me when I'm pushing too hard. Blowers, chainsaws, mowers, dirt bikes etc. Seems too simple I guess… push em hard... until the sound begins to change negatively …adjust a bit & maintain speed to keep her in the power band (sweet spot). Gearing, weight and other variables will change the performance of one unit to the other but the power band is the comfy spot for that particular machine.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

dhazelton said:


> I clear snow very slowly with mine as well. Sometimes I get ticked off because I feel that with the price I paid I should be able to get done quicker than my neighbor with a cheap Craftsman. For someone laying down $2,300 plus tax on a 7 hp machine they should be getting a bomb proof unit, not one you need to baby.
> 
> Mother Honda wastes all kinds of money on moronic motorcycle styling exercises (Vultus and Rune come to mind) that I think they could invest in a beefier drive train and add a few grease fittings to an overpriced blower. Different divisions, I know...Honda never likes being told that they are wrong.



Yep, and that is where I get my passion on this matter!! 

Welcome to the club!!

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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Seeing the pictures of these Honda gearboxes inside I would think that they were MTD and not Honda. The almost useless grease bunching up like that, weird. Water and rust damage inside truly reminds me of what I would expect on a lesser machine.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Zavie said:


> Seeing the pictures of these Honda gearboxes inside I would think that they were MTD and not Honda. The almost useless grease bunching up like that, weird. Water and rust damage inside truly reminds me of what I would expect on a lesser machine.



As a Honda buyer, I want better then they are giving us. I know every machine has it's issues. Fix the issues. Your Honda, you are top tier, not middle of the road. Your company prides it's self on engineering, FIND questionable engineering and FIX IT. We ARE paying for it, but my opinion is we are not getting it in some areas. Honda goes by the 3 year warranty hits and could care less after that. I say nope, you can do better. I have skin in the game and many of you do too. Demand better from Honda. 


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## Surge (Dec 31, 2013)

sr71 said:


> Surge…for me I let the engine sound (of any machine) tell me when I'm pushing too hard. Blowers, chainsaws, mowers, dirt bikes etc. Seems too simple I guess… push em hard... until the sound begins to change negatively …adjust a bit & maintain speed to keep her in the power band (sweet spot). Gearing, weight and other variables will change the performance of one unit to the other but the power band is the comfy spot for that particular machine.


Thanks for the reply. We will be getting about five or six inches of heavy wet snow today and I will pay extra attention to the sound of the engine when I clear it tomorrow morning. My blower has a power boost function that will kick in when I go through the EOD stuff at a slower speed and that has its own unique, but normal sound for my particular brand/model of blower. I have five speeds and often use speed three and four to go through six to fifteen inches of snow depending on its consistency. I only use speed five when I finish and want to run it quickly back to the garage. In particular I will pay attention to speed four versus three. If it sounds like it is laboring then I may use speed three more often to prolong the life of the blower. I have a larger driveway now and put more hours on my machine than at my previous address, so I want to make sure I treat it properly. I probably will put on an average of 25 hours versus 7 hours at my previous home. This year was unusually bad and I may put close to forty hours on it.


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## ZOMGVTEK (Sep 25, 2014)

I've always run it as hard as it will let me. I have the speed the highest I can without it pushing snow. Never had an engine problem with a blower, just driveline problems with two Ariens and now one Honda. Although the busted Honda was 12 years old, and one Ariens failed in 2 years, the second in 6 months.

I see Honda's with 'failed' transmissions for sale all the time lately. However, they all do appear to be 10+ years old. It's hard to call that a huge problem, but it sure would be nice to have a solid resolution.


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## TomB985 (Dec 21, 2013)

dhazelton said:


> I clear snow very slowly with mine as well. Sometimes I get ticked off because I feel that with the price I paid I should be able to get done quicker than my neighbor with a cheap Craftsman. For someone laying down $2,300 plus tax on a 7 hp machine they should be getting a bomb proof unit, not one you need to baby.


Not sure why you feel you need to baby yours. My driveway's a quarter of a mile long, which means clearing it means between 1.5-2 miles of travel up and down with the blower. I go as fast as the machine can effectively go, holding speed right at the point before the engine starts to bog down. Seems to work great. 

My roll pin failed when I was going slowly. I don't think going slow is going to help the situation at all.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

"I go as fast as the machine can effectively go" - so do I - which is usually pretty slow.


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## Surge (Dec 31, 2013)

I only got four inches of fluffy snow, so it was not the best test. However it seems like I can go at the highest speed without any problems or engine straining sounds. But for all practical purposes third speed works best where I have to make lots of turns, and the only time I would feel comfortable using the fourth speed would be a straight run down the center of the driveway. I would not want to go any faster as I might miss seeing a branch or newspaper in the snow. But the main point is that my blower seems like it can handle a fair amount of snow at a fast pace without worrying about the gearbox or engine. I will probably have to wait until next year to test it in heavier snow. 
My guess is that most users do not need or want to go too fast for safety reasons. Although if you have a very long driveway it would be nice to blow it at a nice quick pace and get it done. Especially on those very cold windy days.


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## RoyP (Oct 16, 2014)

I did NOT pay for this machine to baby it. I give it as much speed fwd as I'm comfortable walking with. Not all ahead full, or I would be running after it. (not really) but something I can deal with for hours.


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## TomB985 (Dec 21, 2013)

dhazelton said:


> "I go as fast as the machine can effectively go" - so do I - which is usually pretty slow.


Interesting. My experience has been the opposite, this thing seems to move snow more efficiently than the MTD one I had before. That one had a very powerful 357cc engine, but it could never make full use of the available power because the auger/impeller system couldn't move snow that fast. My parents currently have the same model I used to have, and after three winters the auger drive belt is toast. Build quality doesn't seem nearly as good as on my old Honda. Using it last weekend reminded me how much I really dislike the friction-disc drive system!


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