# honda 928wa new first impressions Brand new



## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Got a new honda928wa and got to use it we got 19 in over 30 hours last sun and use the machine commerciallly on various properties for alatge landscape company

1st there is no toolbox mounted to machine to put the tool bag that comes with machine. Other mfg mount a tool box to hold tools and sheer pins . You can not expect operator to carry tool bag, should be on machine for in field repairs

2nd issue was hydro drive went out actually internal shear pin in gearcase . Which is common I have learned. Machine went back to dealer for repair and low and behold air pressure in tires was lower and machine now was wobbly. Low and behold dealer had over inflated tires on delivery which is no no on this unit per honda service. Never have a had a transmission so weak that tire air pressure can sheer the gearbox drive

3rd chute turn handle operates poorly , binding and appears to be an aluminim spiral gear on handle shaft operating steel teeth on chute. Wonder how long that will last aluminum to steel.

4th no hour meter. Owners manual lists maint intervals by hours. Yet no hour meter? How is mechanic going to know when to service machine with multiple operators using it.

honda dealer sold machine as heavy duty commercial machine. I dont feel that way as machine has obvious limitations and next time will look at other brands . Honda red outdoor equipment had a reputation of long lasting , over engineered, this is an overpriced underengineered homeowner machine. That is my opinion thx for letting me bend your e


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## Mac (Jan 26, 2015)

*Honda*

If you don,t like it why not take it back and get something else? 

I have one that is excellent , never had a problem and would not get anything else.
Sounds like you got a lemon.And a bad dealer that did not do his prep correctly prior to selling to you.
An hour meter you can get the dealer to put one on for you.


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## POG (Nov 22, 2014)

Dealers can be a huge problem. I have an Ariens 824 sno thro It's about 10 years old. Sent it to the dealer for simple oil change they managed to damage something. Twice had all of the fuel in the tank run all over my garage. Actually looking at the Honda machines now. I won't buy another Ariens because of the horrible service. I was looking at Honda, mostly because of the reputation for being long lasting. Would love to hear some other members chime in and see if the extra price is worth it for the Honda..


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

hello groomerz, welcome to *SBF!!* regardless to brand there will be a lemon or two. you name the brand and someone somewhere had a new one with a problem right out the door, how is your dealer handling this


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

A lot of manufacturers don't have a toolbox, if it really bothers you, add one.

It's not all that common for the drive pin to break, it does happen occasionally, but normally that machine is at least 10 years old when and _if_ it does happen.

If the chute crank is binding adjust it in or out at the worm gear as required. I've never seen the worm gear or the steel chute wear yet, even on machines that are 30 years old.

Snowblowers don't normally have hour meters. You're expected to keep track of it on your own. That's not just a Honda thing, it's pretty universal across the board for snowblowers until you get into serious industrial stuff like a Zaugg. That said if you want one add one.

Honda makes an excellent snowblower, they're certainly capable of being used commercially, although a 928WA is definitely marketed more as a homeowner machine. If you really want a Honda designed for commercial use this is the machine you want: Honda Canada

I feel most of your complaints aren't really reasonable. The only real issue I see is the drive pin breaking, that's certainly not normal on a new machine. The chute crank is easily fixed and the dealer should take care of it as well.


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Welcome to SBF. Glad you joined and shared your impressions of that Honda.

Ear bending is what we're here for. We appreciate when folks tell us of their machines and experiences with them. Lots of people look at the posts of others and use them to make decisions for their own purchases.

We also like to hear about experiences with the dealers, or stores machines were purchased, so like detdrbuzzard said, we'd like to hear how your dealer is handling your concerns.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

No hour meter - that should have been apparent before you purchased.
No tool box - ditto
Binding chute gear - is it greased?
Drive pin - Yes, that is a problem on a new machine. But if you are using that machine commercially Honda may have reason to void the warranty, so I would be careful how you approach them.

Dealers can be problematic. That is why you should learn to do things like simple oil changes and routine maintenance yourself.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Groomez,

The pin went out because you used it like a regular snowblower. You can't with a Honda. That gear box is a lemon of a design and the Honda fanboys will argue with you it is a fluke. But the Honda gearcase gets a Grade Level of a "D+" for desgn. 


You will need to start out at 5% to 10% speed while trying to engage it ever so slowly and then increase speed to whatever you want. If you stop or turn around and need to engage the speed you will have to be at 5% to 10 % to start out. I bet you were starting out at 50% to 70% speed and you just hammered that pin. Sorry, the Honda can't be used like a regular snowblower with a rubber disc drive, The Honda has a pathetically weak, badly designed gearbox that needs to be baby-ed.

.


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## FairfieldCT (Nov 8, 2013)

Apple Guy said:


> Groomez,
> 
> The pin went out because you used it like a regular snowblower. You can't with a Honda. That gear box is a lemon of a design and the Honda fanboys will argue with you it is a fluke. But the Honda gearcase gets a Grade Level of a "D+" for desgn.
> 
> ...


Seriously, as someone who OWNS and has used a honda 928 wheeled machine to clear several 2 plus feet storms in the last 2 years, I have to laugh at this post. The hydro gearbox on the honda is anything but weak, and in fact is unstoppable when used as intended. 

I think the OP is nothing more than a Honda basher, lol... in other words, an Ariens owner that wished he had gone RED.


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## FairfieldCT (Nov 8, 2013)

Anyone who looks at my last post and thinks i may be off base, click on Apple Guy and read all 60 of his posts on this forum. ALL honda bashing.  Somebody needs a hobby, lol

Sad thing is the forum is supposed to be a source of accurate information for folks looking to make decisions.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

FairfieldCT said:


> Anyone who looks at my last post and thinks i may be off base, click on Apple Guy and read all 60 of his posts on this forum. ALL honda bashing. Somebody needs a hobby, lol



Sorry guys.... I own a Honda Fit. Just sold a Honda Odyssey and Honda generator. Also have a Honda lawnmower. I am a Honda fan...But not a fanboy that can't take someone having issue about a badly designed specific part on a snowblower.


Sorry if you can't except someone who questions the engineering/design of a problematic part that needs to be dealt with by Honda . Calling me out that my 30 to 60 posts are about this part does nothing but show you are a fanboy circling the wagon. 


Here we have a new owner that took out his "wimpy gearbox pin " in the first week of owning it. And you call me crazy? Right there ..... That tells you there is a big problem that needs to be dealt with by Honda. Putting you head in the sand is not going to fix Honda's bad engineering design that they built into their snowblowers for the last 15 plus years.




.


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## Kensico (Feb 19, 2014)

Hr meters are an easy install just wrap the wire on meter around the spark plug wire 4x


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## pfn (Dec 24, 2010)

FairfieldCT said:


> Anyone who looks at my last post and thinks i may be off base, click on Apple Guy and read all 60 of his posts on this forum. ALL honda bashing. Somebody needs a hobby, lol
> 
> Sad thing is the forum is supposed to be a source of accurate information for folks looking to make decisions.


It seems most of us are fanboys of one machine or another. Stab our ox on whoa unto you! 
As Steven Colbert taught us truth has been lost to truthiness. It's sad.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

OP said it was bing used for a landscape company. Was HE operating it or some ten dollar an hour guy who lugged the engine or jerked from F to R at highest speed settings with augurs engaged? Did someone accidentally chew into a curb? As time is always a consideration when you are have a contract were they forcing the machine to clear snow faster than the machine and impellers could process it? In other words, was the machine abused? 

Agricultural Supply Company sells manual tubes, plastic mounting ears and screw on cap for about $10 each. I put one on my dirt bike for extra tools.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

Apple Guy said:


> You will need to start out at 5% to 10% speed while trying to engage it ever so slowly and then increase speed to whatever you want.


The vast majority of the time I start out wide open. No issues yet with both the HS928TA or the HS1132TCD.

That drive gear should really be keyed or splined on. But it's not as weak as you seem to think it is. The old Murray/Craftsman machines used to have a 1/4 bolt through the drive sprocket that did the same thing as well, so it's not just Honda that has issues you like this, granted they really aren't in the same class of machine at all.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

94EG8 said:


> The vast majority of the time I start out wide open. No issues yet with both the HS928TA or the HS1132TCD.
> 
> That drive gear should really be keyed or splined on. But it's not as weak as you seem to think it is. The old Murray/Craftsman machines used to have a 1/4 bolt through the drive sprocket that did the same thing as well, so it's not just Honda that has issues you like this, granted they really aren't in the same class of machine at all.



I just have a hard time thinking anyone could start out at 100% speed on a Honda Hydro Drive and not feel that is pounding the crap out of "something" and through common sense pull back till the pounding abrupt start stops at 5% to 10%. Call me a doubting Thomas on a 100% start a majority of the time.

.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

I have a Snapper RER that you can shift on the fly. But you don't go from reverse to high speed in one motion, you go from N to 1 with a release of the brake and then can go from 1 to 2, 2 to 3 etc. without braking, but you don't skip over gears. I'll bet if Honda gave you one or two speeds of reverse and 4 forward speeds simply by molding detents into the control panel a lot of these transmission/axle issues might be avoided (lever would have to have some lateral movement then). Who slams their car from R into overdrive without stopping first?


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Wow didn't expect such feedback, 1st I am not a honda basher . I personally own a honda cycle, and have owned a honda 3813 Hydro riding mower. Our company operates 1 large and 1 small honda rotiller purchased new. We have 6 aereators with Honda GX, 6 sidewalk edgers powered by honda motors. I love the reliability and excellent engineering of honda power. I am a mechanic with 15 yrs exp for large landscape company and just expressing my observations . I did not purchase the unit. Only was surprised to see it in my shop after 1st snow. As far as operating. no I was not operating machine. 1 of our as someone put it 10 an hour laborers. more like $15 for our company as you get what you pay for. We currently have 15 toro powerclear and 3650 machines some with 14 years of use all with original motors and top ends . The owner purchased this 928WA for a very sidewalk intensive property contract we got. 

You guys make points on my hourmeter and tool box issues. yes i could add these features so those points are moot observations.

Now as far as the drive issue maybe it was a lemon as someone suggested. I have read the operating manual and could not find the part that says machine will break down if drive is engaged at higher speeds or if I let laborers operate the machine. 

To me it seems the hydo drive can provide more torque than gearcase can handle and the sheer pin in gearcase is the only overload protection of the drive system. I think that is why the service dept recommends setting the tires realy low and soft so they can absorb the high torque. Seems to me that a hydro pressure release valve in hydro system could limit torque. similar to a snow plow hydro system or a automotive power steering system when you reach the design limits hydo pressure is realeased to protect against damage. A machine should be designed to be worked hard and should not have to be babied. I am sure this machine would last 20 years in a homeowner use. I think this machine might have been misrepresented by the power dealer as ideal for commercial use. Only time will tell. thx again for letting me bend your ear and hear your opinions.


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

My chute crank was binding on my new HS928TAS but I found the lower bracket on the handlebar needed adjustment and lubrication. It's just a sheet metal tab with a plastic bushing, but it wasn't aligned perpendicular to the rod. A little judicious bending with pliers and some spray lube did the trick. At also has loosened more after a couple of uses -- maybe the grease hadn't been spread enough. I blame dealer setup but it's an easy fix. 

As for the drive, I don't know. On one hand I see Apple Guy's point. But I think he's out of line because machinery has its limits, and if its abused things will break. I wouldn't rev my car to redline and pop the clutch, but if I did I wouldn't blame the car maker if something broke.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

Groomerz - now you have me wondering if putting Carlisle two-ply tires that take 8-10 pounds of air on my HS628 is going to ruin a machine that was designed for 2psi Ohastu's. I have eliminated that shock cushion, for lack of a better phrase. But the new machines come with Duros. Are they that softly inflated?


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

groomerz said:


> To me it seems the hydo drive can provide more torque than gearcase can handle and the sheer pin in gearcase is the only overload protection of the drive system.


It's really not a shear pin either. That pin is made out of very hard steel. It might just be defective. As I said earlier I normally start out wide open and I haven't had any issues. While I do agree that the transmission arrangement could be better designed, and it would be really nice if Honda would at the very least start selling that pin separate I don't believe it's nearly as weak as some people are saying it is.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

dhazelton said:


> But if you are using that machine commercially Honda may have reason to void the warranty, so I would be careful how you approach them.


All Honda 2-stage snowblowers sold in the USA have a 3-year warranty, and it applies to both commercial and homeowner alike. 

Honda can't "void" a warranty; it's a legal document. That said, if you bring your Honda snowblower in for repairs, and the engine does not have any oil, or shows clear signs of abuse or neglect, Honda will probably declines to provide free repairs. The warranty only covers defects, not damage due to misuse, improper service, etc.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

groomerz said:


> I think that is why the service dept recommends setting the tires realy low and soft so they can absorb the high torque.


Low-pressure tires on wheel-drive models are necessary for optimum traction/grip on slippery surfaces. Over-inflated tires have reduced contact patch area, and simply won't grip as good.

Tire PSI is really not related to the torque output of the transmission.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

Robert, any chance you can find out why the drive pin (pictured below) is not available separately. Or possibly put a bug in someone's ear to see if it can be made available separately. It really sucks to replace a $135 axle over a $2 pin.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

I did not want to suggest that torque and tire pressure are related. Just that lower tire pressure as suggested by our honda dealer after repairs would decrease the torque shock load to the drive pin by cushioning the torque. Then I looked into the hydro diagrams and there is a check valve to release pressure in the hydro transmission. I also learned that the same hydro transmission and drive axle with pin are used in smaller 624wa as well as the larger 928wa. This should not be a problem since the relief valve should control the load/torque on the drivetrain. Either the pin is too week or the pressure relief spring to strong. honda engineering is strong so maybe quality control let a weak drive pin or a stronger pressure relief spring on my machine. someone suggested sheer pins on the wheel/axle connection that could make this easier than tearing into a gearcase and replacing an axle. On the web there appears to be some failures of this pin. by perctage of failures I am sure it is negliable but still gave me a bad taste in my mouth of a brand I have trusted. This drive train appears to be used on various machines for many years so from a mfg supply/parts perspective the cheapest mod is a $2.00 lighter relief spring


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Mine is a 1999 HS928 Wheeled model. I bought new in 2000. It has seen typical New England snow use since. Maybe 6-8 blowable storms per year. this year has been the worst for us. I love this machine. 

I am concerned about this transmission "pin". Up to this point, I had no idea how the drive engagement mechanism worked. I DO know that on my previous 1975 MTD it was a rubber disk and driven wheel set up. I never gave this a second thought. 

As others have pointed out, I can't find anything in my owners manual that mentions starting out with drive speed in the lower ranges, then engaging the wheels, them increasing or decreasing the speed as desired. Thus I am guilty of more "abrupt" start/stops than I care to admit. 

As an aside, if their intent was to control speed with the right hand, while keeping the drive lever (and auger lever auto-locked) with the left hand, why didn't they mount the speed lever more towards the right? It's awkward to hold the left lever down, and then reach far left with the right lever while in use. 

Back to my original thought. The transmission pin. I am wondering how much damage I have done to this pin over the years. (I have since changed my ways). I am going to guess that it will fail sometime soon. I watched this vid here:






He shows this being replaced on a track machine. Can I presume the same transmission setup AND the same broken pin issue will happen on a wheeled machine? 

Also, can someone post an image or picture of how the actual engagement mechanism works? is it just two gears with "forced" meshing?

The first time I saw something like this was with my Honda Harmony 215 lawn mower. A very similar issue with the transmission, where the engagement mechanism is rather "abrupt". It's two discs/synchros that "catch" with each other. Nothing gradual about it at all. a VERY hard engagement. 

So, have a done a ton of damage?
Does this happen on wheeled versions? Can I get a replacement pin and to this over the summer in garage that is not at sub-freezing temps? Or do I need to "fashion" my own pin?

Thanks.

P.../NH


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

94EG8 said:


> Robert, any chance you can find out why the drive pin (pictured below) is not available separately. Or possibly put a bug in someone's ear to see if it can be made available separately. It really sucks to replace a $135 axle over a $2 pin.


Ouch, that does sting. 

The pin is not sold separate, as it comes fitted to the shaft from the supplier, and that is how the engineers specified it. The 'why' is a bit more complicated, and could be for any number of reasons, none of which I would be able to extract from the original Japan-based engineering team. 

I can tell you that shaft has multiple part numbers. It appears there was a running change of the design starting with serial number 1120842. Earlier models use a different part ($139.22) while later production versions are significantly less cost $71.20. Generally, Honda will not show a serial number break unless the parts are NOT interchangeable. So, unlikely the less costly shaft would fit/work correct in a pre-1120842 unit. 

That same shaft is used in the HS724, HS828, HS928, (track and wheel) and HS1132. 

Wonder if a local machine shop could help?


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

Correct me if I am wrong, I think the shaft for the wheeled models is different than the one for tracked models.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Ouch, that does sting.
> 
> The pin is not sold separate, as it comes fitted to the shaft from the supplier, and that is how the engineers specified it. The 'why' is a bit more complicated, and could be for any number of reasons, none of which I would be able to extract from the original Japan-based engineering team.


If I was to guess on the why it's that the engineering team probably assumed the pin would wear the hole in the shaft by that point and become loose and just keep breaking. Or perhaps it was because it's very tight press fit, or maybe that just never thought the pin would fail by itself. 



[email protected] said:


> Wonder if a local machine shop could help?


I have a lathe, I can make them if I end up needing one, but it would be nice to be able to just buy one as a service part.


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## brickcity (Jan 23, 2014)

after watching donnyboys video looks like honda thinks it's not worth selling $2 pins for a labor intensive job. makes no sense to me.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Robert,

Is there a way to find out the metallurgy spec of that pin. Is it chromium-vanadium alloy steel with a high nickel content? That would be a great steel for a pin like this. Can you find out what it is so we may replace that pin in the summer with a high end pin that might take more abuse then the factory pin. 

If you want to design a fail safe sheer pin setup for this transmission the worst place to put it would be in the hydro trans, the scond place would be where Honda put it-- in the gearbox.

The best place is make it outside the gearbox on a sleeve/pin setup on the axle so you pop the pin out then pound a new one in. 10 minutes and you are off snowblowing again.


.

.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

I can't state what it's actually made of, maybe Robert can, but I can tell you it's extremely hard, if you hit it with a hammer it will chip before it bends or deforms. It's in no way a shear pin, it's simply used as a way to lock the gear the shaft.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Wow great thread! I almost did not tune in because I figured the thread would be another, I love my Honda it's so great....". My take on this is that us handy repair guys would love to see just the pin offered and do the job ourselves. Honda wants to offer a repair that guarantees the work to an expensive part, (drive train) of the snow blower. My suggestion to [email protected] would be to see if this part could be offered as a repair exchange. The dealer would send the old part in and a rebuilt part would be sent back. The repair seems so easy. Just a simple jig to center the shaft. Over drill the hole then install a new center shouldered pin and it's done. Maybe this is not cost effective as the new production part, $71.20 is half the cost of the old, $139.22 but still would be worth checking into. This issue would not keep me from buying a Honda as I'm sure I would do the repair myself, but as more and more Honda's age a rebuilt shaft seems like a cost effective solution.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

94EG8 said:


> I can't state what it's actually made of, maybe Robert can, but I can tell you it's extremely hard, if you hit it with a hammer it will chip before it bends or deforms. It's in no way a shear pin, it's simply used as a way to lock the gear the shaft.


What limited engineering drawings I can access, only have mechanical dimensions at best, sorry. 

It does indeed appear to be simply an engagement pin, designed to make positive mechanical contact and transfer torque to the gear hub.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

Zavie said:


> My suggestion to [email protected] would be to see if this part could be offered as a repair exchange.


As we like to sometimes reference in high-level meetings, such a scope is "outside the sphere" of my influence.  

The current Honda system for making changes at this level is primarily based on warranty claims. If enough data can reveal an issue, a countermeasure is usually developed. But, short of honest data to support it, such a project will make limited progress.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

I hear you Robert. After watching the donyboy video on the way he fixes the issue I think that in most cases reusing the old shaft and a new fabricated pin of some sort is quite easy anyway. The do it your self guys should have no problem with this one.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Great discussion. Robert I agree with you regarding that warranty claims will influence design changes. My online search of failures was that most failures were not warranty claims so from a mfg perspective honda made a great machine that had few failures within 3 years that it was supported. I think that the PITA factor to repair is what lit me up and others that have had a pin failure. Even though our machine was warranty repair it we still had to transport to dealer, wait a day for repair and send another crew to finish the walks. Dealer had part in stock so it must be a part that sells. I think the real numbers to look at would be the shaft part number quantity and see how many sold to determine if the quantity sold qualifies it as a wear item. If so then a redesign is in order because a gearcase shaft is not a wear item in my opinion. Looking at warranty claims is business smart per units sold but I think looking at shaft #'s sold would be a stronger position for producing a long lasting trouble free machine. Robert you also mention part number changes and engineering drawings and cost reduction of the shafts . You might have notes on those drawings pertaining to the design change or part # change that you are unable share with us. That is understandable. My experience , you get what you pay for and a less expensive shaft price is a shaft that was mfg differently than the more expensive shaft. might be materials, supplier, manfactureer, mfg process, or perhaps volume produced . Some one suggested shear bolts on the wheel axle. It would be an easier field repair than the current repair and a failure of a wheel sheer pin would be more acceptable as the machine could be easily diagnosed and repaired. . Again great discussion and thank you robert for your input. Per your Caveat this is your personal forum participation and is not shared with honda? but regardless it is great to get your feedback. Great discussion


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Zavie, There is no need to drill and make the hole in the shaft bigger. In fact I WOULD want to make the hole and pin bigger and get the "relief" in the gear milled out to except the larger pin. The way you have it, the pin would have a stress point at the radius and break easier then a straight pin. 

.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> As we like to sometimes reference in high-level meetings, such a scope is "outside the sphere" of my influence.
> 
> The current Honda system for making changes at this level is primarily based on warranty claims. If enough data can reveal an issue, a countermeasure is usually developed. But, short of honest data to support it, such a project will make limited progress.



That is the exact reason why we still have a sub-par gearbox design. Any "good" engineer would NEVER except those pin failures. If I used my Honda like I used my Yamaha I would bust that pin in the first 2 years. The first driveway I ever did on my new Honda I "felt" I had a major problem and started babying the trans/gearbox because I saw a failure point on day 1. 

Again why any engineer would let that abrupt engagement go when he knew that little pin was taking all that "shock load". 


The gearbox pin problem is lost in time...... Honda could care less what happens AFTER the warranty is over. That seems very clear.

.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

The only reason to drill a bigger hole in the shaft would be if the OEM hole was enlarged or distorted do to the pin breakage, or while attempting to remove the remains of the broken pin. I expect that in 95% of the pin breakages just a "new" fabricated pin to OEM specs would do the trick. This would be the repair that donyboy does. I have been using the repair where I have machined a center enlarged shoulder in pins and dowels for over 30 years in automotive gearbox and overdrive applications with excellent results. I can see why Honda designed this part of the drive train as it does protect some expensive gears but I also think the whole assembly could be beefed up a tad.
In this repair tear down hours and re-assemble hours, (at $60-$70 an hour) plays a big role in just using a new shaft altogether. As I said before, this would not keep me from buying this machine as I love working on stuff like this.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Wouldn't the relief valve in the hydro unit protect the gears?


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## DaveS (Feb 6, 2015)

pjw73nh said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXLpGWKzCBo


Just curious, assume you've removed the LH tracks in addition to what's in the video, does that shaft just slide out at that point? Never done a replacement like this, and hope I don't have to, but once you get the tracks off, and the RH cover off, it "appears" to be a pretty straight forward replacement. Boats has the shaft for $51 for my model which was purchased about 10 years ago...


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

After watching the donyboy video again I'm wondering about the shaft. Donyboy says that the "pin" is actually part of the shaft. So is the "pin" not a pin at all and just a protrusion of the shaft? He says that it's a "problem he often runs into on these snow blowers", so does that mean it's common or that if there is a drive issue that's usually it? He also goes on to say the cause is "trying to make the snow blower do something it can't do". Makes me ask who on the forum has had this problem and were they operating it at the time. Seems like someone on the forum had this problem but he either bought the machine after the fact or was not operating it at the time of failure.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

groomerz said:


> Wouldn't the relief valve in the hydro unit protect the gears?


Not necessarily, it depends on how the system is designed. In automotive systems the relief valve allows for a gradual decrease in pressure like when the system goes to a de-energized pressure. It typically has nothing do do with a drive protection system. Usually clutches and springs are used to absorb shock and allow for gradual engagement. From what I gather from the donyboy video once you are in traction drive mode you better have those tracks moving or else.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Groomerz, hopefully the employee operating the machine was fully trained. I was looking through the Honda owners manual and found this. Shows the importance of transmission release lever when moving the machine.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Zavie said:


> Groomerz, hopefully the employee operating the machine was fully trained. I was looking through the Honda owners manual and found this. Shows the importance of transmission release lever when moving the machine.


My machine just skids if you try to move it when it is engaged when not running. This would seem to be a non issue, because I bet if the guy did not figure this out he would of complained whats up with snowblower, I cant move it.

.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

OK, I think Honda needs to fix their gearbox pin issue, made worse by their hydro transmission abrupt engagement issue. They won't... They have their head in the sand and won't admit they produced some really bad engineering choices here. Their engineers failed to refine a key area of the propulsion mechanism of their snowblowers. So I think we need to find a supplier that can make us up a Graphene pin to fix Honda's badly designed gearbox pin failure problem. Anyone know where we can have some Graphene pins made up?

.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

Again this isn't nearly as big an issue as you make it out to be. I would like to see the pin released as a service part, but it's still not a particularly common point of failure. As I said I typically start out wide open, sometimes on bare pavement. I haven't broken a pin yet. The bigger problem I'm seeing on these machines is that there's no way to lubricate the gearbox without taking it apart. The factory grease just pushes away from the gears the first time they turn and stays there doing nothing. I've added a grease nipple to my 1132 so I can at least pump additional grease in, but really they should be running 90 gear oil, however this will require a breather and maybe some seals. The gears get dry, rust, wear and pit.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Zavie said:


> Groomerz, hopefully the employee operating the machine was fully trained. I was looking through the Honda owners manual and found this. Shows the importance of transmission release lever when moving the machine.


Yes operator was trained with controls and knew how to disengage drive to manually push machine around , we have large stmp grinder with hydro drive with similiar hydro release.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

What if the gear was welded to the shaft? For those who have actually replace the shaft or serviced gearcase. Can it be done From this discussion pin is not shear pin but a weak link so lets weld the gear to shaft. Maybe? What do u think?


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

groomerz said:


> What if the gear was welded to the shaft? For those who have actually replace the shaft or serviced gearcase. Can it be done From this discussion pin is not shear pin but a weak link so lets weld the gear to shaft. Maybe? What do u think?



I own a TIG welder or it can also be known to some as a Helli-Arc so I have some idea what I am talking about when welding this part. The first thing is can it be assembled if it is welded to the shaft? The guys who have done the pin fix will have to tell us.

The gear material most likely would be a hair better then pot metal or investment cast like material that makes a "spit back" exploding weld puddle from it bad metallurgy impurities as far as welding with a TIG. I would assume just from past experience . I have never seen that gear so I really have no idea. A test weld with both a TIG welder and a MIG welder (wire feed) would be in order. 

To do it right you would need to weld both sides. If someone would come up with a low carbon common steel gear, and the shaft was a nice quality piece steel that would fix it. You then would find the next weak point by doing that, BUT by a far far less degree then the pin now. For some, they can beat on it for years, some not. So you solve the pin issue, I could assume you would put out the next weak point by many many years or fix it completely. 

If Honda solved the abrupt starting off engagement issue, I think they would solve 50%+ of their pin issue. 

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