# Toro 724 reverse disc movement ?



## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Toro 724 38050. I'm replacing the drive shaft bearing and would like to know if a little bit of wobble/movement, at the edge maybe 1/16 in, is normal on the reverse disc? Or, should it be completely tight ?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

rapscallion said:


> Toro 724 38050. I'm replacing the drive shaft bearing and would like to know if a little bit of wobble/movement, at the edge maybe 1/16 in, is normal on the reverse disc? Or, should it be completely tight ?


 yeah that is normal. it is all good.


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Thanks ! I've got the whole traction assembly apart, in order to replace that shot bearing, and wanted to make sure before I put it all back together again.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

rapscallion said:


> Thanks ! I've got the whole traction assembly apart, in order to replace that shot bearing, and wanted to make sure before i put it all back together again.


 YEAH SURE you betcha no problem, anytime!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Btw, I seem to have an extra washer. According to the Toro parts diagram, one goes between the top of the reverse disc shaft and the bearing. The second between the bearing and the spacer. I've got a third, maybe between the spacer and the roll pin or as the second between the bearing and spacer. There's certainly enough room and may "tighten" things up a bit.??


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

rapscallion said:


> Btw, I seem to have an extra washer. According to the Toro parts diagram, one goes between the top of the reverse disc shaft and the bearing. The second between the bearing and the spacer. I've got a third, maybe between the spacer and the roll pin or as the second between the bearing and spacer. There's certainly enough room and may "tighten" things up a bit.??


 THE correct term is thrust washer. and yes that would help.


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Oooh, I love it when there's "dirty" talk in the forum 

Thanks, I'll add it as the second thrust washer between the bearing and the spacer. One odd ball spacer. It's totally flat on one side and concave on the other...very bizarre.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

DID you getter done???????????


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> DID you getter done???????????


Ha, you beat me to it.

Yes, all back together and tight as a drum, even the slight wobble is gone . Thanks again for your input.

The one thing that the service manual omits is how tight the nut on the eye bolt should be (on the hex shaft with drive wheel). I have to take the bottom cover off again anyway because the machine is going faster in 2nd gear than it is in 3rd. My feeling is that the eye bolt nut tightness is affecting this, or the traction disc is slipping?? 

I don't have it particularly tight because of the 2 spring washers. Plus, the original setting wasn't accurate because someone had previously disassembled it.

Lastly, the engine runs rough at slow speeds and no matter of fiddling with
the mixture screw smooths it out. I am going to change the spark plug and get some fresh gas and give it another gther than that, seems all is in good shape.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Hi rapscallion,
I have a 38050 as well. The cure for the rough low idle is a carb clean and rebuild. Most likely your idle circuit is fouled a bit behind the jet screw. Also the bowl nut behind the high speed jet has very small holes between its threads that can become clogged. A good cleaning and replacement of your bowl gasket, float needle and seat should make her purr. MH


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

rapscallion said:


> Ha, you beat me to it.
> 
> Yes, all back together and tight as a drum, even the slight wobble is gone . Thanks again for your input.
> 
> ...


 you will have to play with the eye bolt for that issue.


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

motorhead64 said:


> Hi rapscallion,
> I have a 38050 as well. The cure for the rough low idle is a carb clean and rebuild. Most likely your idle circuit is fouled a bit behind the jet screw. Also the bowl nut behind the high speed jet has very small holes between its threads that can become clogged. A good cleaning and replacement of your bowl gasket, float needle and seat should make her purr. MH


Thanks motorhead. Is there a particular rebuild kit that you can recommend?


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Here is one currently listed on the Bay...my number reference is 631029 for Tecumseh. Make sure your carb was not "updated" to one with "fixed" jets, as this one has the original adjustable jet screws for both high speed and idle. MH


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Thanks for the info. Mine is a 1981 that I bought used in '85, so I'm sure it was never updated. Mine definitely has the adjustable screws for both low and high speed.

I can't even get to idle at the "Slow" indicator on the shift panel. It misses almost like it's ready to backfire.

I've seen posts that people state they changed the points and capacitor on this model, yet nothing in the service manual to indicate that it has either one.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

The Toro 38050's prior to 1986 all had points/condenser magnetos. 1986 model year they switched to c-d solid state ignitions. MH


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

MH, I've looked at the Toro Magneto drawings (https://lookup3.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro&lang=us_en) for my SN (1981) and I see the condenser in the Magneto drawing, but not the points.

Nothing in the Engine drawing either ??


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

rapscallion said:


> MH, I've looked at the Toro Magneto drawings (https://lookup3.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro&lang=us_en) for my SN (1981) and I see the condenser in the Magneto drawing, but not the points.
> 
> Nothing in the Engine drawing either ??


 it would be more prudent to change over to HEI system than sticking with the status quo.


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> it would be more prudent to change over to HEI system than sticking with the status quo.


Well, from what I see, I already have it. Or, am I missing something?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

rapscallion said:


> Well, from what I see, I already have it. Or, am I missing something?


 snap a pic of that area then I can tell u


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Here's the assembly drawing, does that help:


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

rapscallion said:


> Here's the assembly drawing, does that help:


 that is not the HEI SETUP. THAT IS THE POINT AND CONDENSER DEALY


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Please advise which # are the points, as they are not listed as far as I can see. The closet would be # 5 that they're calling a "cam breaker" ?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

rapscallion said:


> Please advise which # are the points, as they are not listed as far as I can see. The closet would be # 5 that they're calling a "cam breaker" ?


as far as I tell from those obscure drawing the point's are on the cam breaker. that is what opens and closes the spark.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Part #5 on the left is the contact that moves up and down as part#4 (cam) rotates with the crank shaft. Part#5 on the right is the fixed contact that is adjustable to set the usually .020 gap between the two points.

Parts #14 and #15 should not be moved unless you have the necessary tools and knowledge to set it back in the correct position for ignition timing.


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll leave that adjustment, if necessary, until the end after I've changed the plug, rebuilt the carb and get fresh gas.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

I would remove the oil breather and check the valves for correct clearance while you have the carb off. No clearance will affect how it runs and will get worse after the engine reaches operating temperature. The motor is 30+ years old and is probably due for a valve adjustment anyway.


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Good tip Grunt, will do. Thanks!


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Grunt said:


> I would remove the oil breather and check the valves for correct clearance while you have the carb off. No clearance will affect how it runs and will get worse after the engine reaches operating temperature. The motor is 30+ years old and is probably due for a valve adjustment anyway.


 how does that valve adjustment work on those tecumsapart engines any way??? I have never messed around with those engines my self.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

The points are a combination of different parts and usually come as an assembly or a kit.
.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> how does that valve adjustment work on those tecumsapart engines any way??? I have never messed around with those engines my self.


If after removing the breather and checking the valve clearance, which is usually between .004 and .008 thousandths of an inch. The valve, usually the exhaust valve, are removed from the engine and the valve stem filed or ground to achieve the correct clearance for that particular engine. Flat head engines loose clearance as the valve seat and\or valve face wear. Overhead valve engines are the opposite, they normally require the clearance to be decreased.
I recently worked on a Tecumseh HSSK50 on an MTD snow blower that had 40 psi compression. After doing a leak down test, I found the exhaust valve was not closing all the way. The valve was removed and required .007 ground off the stem to achieve the .005 clearance required. the valve was held open .002 because of valve seat wear.


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

motorhead64 said:


> Hi rapscallion,
> I have a 38050 as well. The cure for the rough low idle is a carb clean and rebuild. Most likely your idle circuit is fouled a bit behind the jet screw. Also the bowl nut behind the high speed jet has very small holes between its threads that can become clogged. A good cleaning and replacement of your bowl gasket, float needle and seat should make her purr. MH


Hi again MH. Thanks MH for your suggestion and link to the rebuild kit.

I got the kit from ebay and finally got around to doing the rebuild, following several YouTube vids which were very good, this one especially : 




It's all back together now and runs smoothly. However, initially it would only run for about 2 mins, then stall. It would start right back up and then do the same thing again. (using 3 week old gas.)

I've never touched the carb before so the following came this way from the factory, I believe. I did buy the blower used in '85.

1 .When I removed the carb from the engine, the power adjusting screw was a full 3 turns out. The manual specifies 1 full turn as an initial point. so, that's a big difference.

2. The float adjustment is supposed to be 11/64" from the bowl lip and I would guess mine was closer to 7/64". (measured opposite side from the pivot, no gasket installed) Smooth side of a drill bit is a great gauge. I adjusted it to the 11/64 spec.

Ok, so I removed it again and tightened up the float clearance a bit. Plus I backed out the power screw to about 2 1/2 turns. Now it runs for about 10 min and then stalls again. So, I think I'm on the right track

Also, I didn't replace the carb gasket, the one behind the 2 Phillips head mounting bolts. I had to use a razor to separate it from the carb, and it remained on the engine.
I don't know if that's allowing air to get in, but running it richer should have compensated for that. If I take it off again, I'll use Permatex gasket sealer.

Before I take it off the engine again, any comments or suggestions would be welcomed.
Brief video below. After the first few seconds, you can jump to about the 2 min point and you'll get the idea..


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Try loosening the gas cap. Could be a restricted vent in the cap. There is also an atmospheric vent hole in the carb near the low speed mixture screw that has to be clear. Photo #15 in link below.

Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Tecumseh Series 1 Carb 632107


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I'd also make sure that the fuel line is not kinked. 

For it to run, as well as it does, then suddenly die off from what appears to be a fuel starvation scenario, I would pursue it from the tank to the float needle. Your carb appears to be working as it should, as well as the linkage.


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## rapscallion (Dec 29, 2010)

Thanks to you both for the responses/suggestions.

@Grunt. The gas cap is probably fine as it ran continuously before the rebuild. Although rough and sputtering at less than full speed. This, the reason for the rebuild.
That vent hole shoul be clear as I gave the carb a good soaking in cleaner and blew out with compressed air. I'll give it another look though. 

Great link, I wondered what that little oblong dimple in the bottom of the float bowl was for.

@db9938. The fuel line is fine, one of the first things I checked when it died after 2 min. I did find some cracks in the primer hose, right before it attaches to the carb and I cut that off. The fact that the run time increased from 2 to 10 min, after a minor float adjustment, makes me tend to agree with you that's where the problem lies.


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