# Fuel type / recommended additives in an older Toro



## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Hello,

Instead of asking this question in my other thread (regarding my 1980's Toro *826 *model *38150*), I thought I'd post it as a new thread. I believe it merits it's own discussion. 

In essence, I would like to know what fuel type should be used in an older Toro machine: standard (87 octane), mid-grade (89 octane) or super (91 octane)?


Also, based on research I've done when I bought an outboard motor for my boat, I know you're not supposed to put anything with Ethanol in it because it will gunk up the carburetor... but are there any recommended additives to put in the fuel of an older snow blower, other than fuel stabilizer for long term storage? 

Personally, I often put *Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant* in my fuel, both for my truck and the small engines I own. So far, I haven't seen any negative side-effects and I like the idea of "lubing the cylinders" when the engines run, lol! On the truck it actually seems to reduce fuel consumption a little bit, as advertised.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I started using Sea Foam about two years ago and have become a convert. At 1 oz per gallon of gas, one can will last me a year for mower/blower/trimmer etc.


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## Buttchet (Mar 5, 2013)

I use Lucas and a product called Star-tron. been very happy with both and have no problems over the last two years. cheap insurance in my eyes. I put in high octane as long as I have the two additives and my equipment runs great


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

I was thinking about SeaFoam too at one point, but I always thought of it to be best for de-carbonizing the air intake on a car / truck. Lots of smoke! 

That being said, I usually try to stay away from "one solution for all problems" type of products. Perhaps SeaFoam is the exception to the rule though, I haven't really tested it.

As for Lucas, they advertize their upper cylinder lubricant as both a lubricant and crud remover / injector cleaner, so I lean more towards that. Personal preference, of course... then again, I was told that adding a bit of 2-cycle oil to the gas can accomplish the same effect (lubricate cylinders in a 4-stroke engine), but for much cheaper than the Lucas stuff.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i think most use 87 octaine gas but i have a habit of using mid-grade in everything thats gas powered with some seafoam added


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

octane (resistance to detonation) degrades over time so I always use 93 for my small engines especially if the gas may sit in the can for 1-2mos. Stabil gets added as soon as I get home. 

Also add seafoam (dilutions above is < 1%.) especially with these old L-head engines which love to coke-up the valves/seats & head...this is a preventative. 

If your machine is already coked-up (check through the plug-hole), you're going to want to do a decarb. 

At a minimum, run a tank full of 10% seafoam...and when it's almost gone, spray some pure seafoam into the carb air intake and cut the engine...then spray some seafoam directly into the cylinder and let it sit for 15-20min. Now make your neighbors happy and fire that baby back-up with fresh gas . 

Lately I've been pulling the heads and cleaning the coke using seafoam and a nylon brush...then reseating/lapping the valves. A 3.5hp machine that I thought was clean after the seafoam decarb above was still pretty gunked-up.

I've had RPMs (and power) jump after a good cleaning...so check your RPMs to make sure you're not over-revving.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

classiccat said:


> octane (resistance to detonation) degrades over time so I always use 93 for my small engines especially if the gas may sit in the can for 1-2mos. Stabil gets added as soon as I get home.
> 
> Also add seafoam (dilutions above is < 1%.) especially with these old L-head engines which love to coke-up the valves/seats & head...this is a preventative.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed how-to on a snowblower SeaFoam treatment! I'll definitely try this after the Holidays... my snowblower could reportedly be a 1975-1977 model, so that's a lot of potential crud accumulation in that Briggs engine!


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

use 87 non-oxy gas if you can find it.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Hey everyone,

After doing some reading about the different fuel types to use in small engines, I came across information that apparently all gas will eventually gunk up your carburetor and possibly other parts in a small engine because of the general accepted use of *Ethanol *in today's gasoline. In essence, it produces a varnish-type deposit that's a b*tch to clean. This is why it is (apparently) recommended to buy specialty gas at marinas or other small engine places that has zero ethanol added, usually at a very big premium... because it will keep your small engine and carburetor alive much longer. Hmm... interesting. 

Well, that being said, I decided to make some inquiries about local gas (via Google searches / websites of different suppliers) and ethanol is indeed widely used in all gasoline grades, with the maximum general content of up to 10% (known as E10). The suppliers do not have to identify it as such, as long as they do not exceed 10% ethanol per volume of gas. Higher ethanol content has to be legally identified as ethanol gas though (E15 for 15%, etc).

In sum, all gas suppliers use it and it seems like my small engine on my new (used) Toro is indeed doomed down the line... all but one. Apparently, Shell's V-Power 91 octane gas DOES NOT contain any ethanol whatsoever, plus includes a cylinder lubricant already in it. And of course you can get it at any Shell station, no need to pay the premium at the marina (that probably gets their gas at Shell too). Here's the info I got off Shell Canada's website:



> * 2. Is Shell V-Power premium gasoline safe for all vehicles? *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I guess I answered my own question. From now on, my mower, boat engine, gas chainsaw and my Toro snowblower will only feed on Shell's V-Power 91 octane and no need for extra additives (because everything's already mixed in the gas). I used it in the truck a couple of times in the past whenever gas was cheap(er) (because it supposedly removes gunk) and, as advertised, it actually gave me better mileage than gas from other places... so it'll probably have some beneficial effects on a smaller engine too. 

Zero ethanol is a definite winner here.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

you'll appreciate this link: PureGas


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

classiccat said:


> you'll appreciate this link: PureGas


Thanks! It confirms V-Power as being ethanol-free, as well as Esso premium 91 octane. Weird, because when I went to the Esso Canada website, they stated that their gas has ethanol, but always less than 10%.

On a funny note, I clicked on the map of ethanol-free gas stations in my area and the closest to my place is a small aircraft airport! Apparently there's a Shell there with ethanol-free gas... lol! The next closest thing are gas stations 40+ miles away, even though I live in a populated area... and I know for a fact that there are Shell stations much closer, because I fuel there regularly. Go figure. 

Alaska residents seem to be the lucky ones according to the info in your link, because all their gas is ethanol-free. I wonder if it has something to do with the cold temperatures and the fact that ethanol is reputed to attract moisture, which could cause the fuel line to freeze... ?

(I guess I'll stick with Shell's V-Power after all)


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

762mm said:


> Alaska residents seem to be the lucky ones according to the info in your link, because all their gas is ethanol-free. I wonder if it has something to do with the cold temperatures and the fact that ethanol is reputed to attract moisture, which could cause the fuel line to freeze... ?


 Ethanol actually prevents the fuel to freeze and it is the only thing it does good. We wouldn't have ethanol if it wasn't for the powerful farm lobbyists trying to find use for their corn, if one verifies it has a far from zero environment impact as they claim it to be. Enough rant as I was born and raised on a farm but far from being for ethanol.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Well, the fuel kind. Unless you run into a revenuer, and then you are just creating biofuel.....


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Normex said:


> *Ethanol actually prevents the fuel to freeze and it is the only thing it does good.* We wouldn't have ethanol if it wasn't for the powerful farm lobbyists trying to find use for their corn, if one verifies it has a far from zero environment impact as they claim it to be. Enough rant as I was born and raised on a farm but far from being for ethanol.


This guys seems to think different in regards to water attraction, as do some other articles about the subject I've read. Of course, as far as the freezing is concerned, it might indeed have a beneficial effect (the chemistry of alcohol might allow the extra water to resist freezing). We all know how hard it is to freeze a bottle of hard liquor, I think! 







...and also this:


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