# Toro 721E Cable melting from exhaust



## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

I just bought a new Toro 721E and I love it. However, I noticed that my cable has melted due to the heat of the exhaust. I believe it is from the heat of the handle that it rests on when the control bar is released and the cable has slack. Fortunately the cable is metal wire covered by plastic but this is a poor design OR my tension is off. If the cable is tightened to keep it off the metal handle bar then I think this will be too tight. Any suggestions or similar experience? See pics for further clarification.
Thanks!


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

Can you move the cable to the other side of the handle bar tube and cable tie it ?


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Never seen that is your choke on 1/2 way. You could zip tie some tin foil 


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Looks like a poor design if that is where it's supposed to be.
Or else they should have added a small tailpipe on the exhaust outlet to direct the exhaust down.
Like said try to wire tie it to the other side?
Brand new? I would ask for a new cable?


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

nwcove said:


> Can you move the cable to the other side of the handle bar tube and cable tie it ?


No, it has to be on this side as it connects inside the Arm Idler inside the Rotor Drive Assembly. But you're right, the exhaust should be diverted differently! I may need to wrap the cable with a metal cover. Again, poor design!


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

groomerz said:


> Never seen that is your choke on 1/2 way. You could zip tie some tin foil
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The choke will be pushed off once the engine is going so I don't think this is related.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

Big Ed said:


> Looks like a poor design if that is where it's supposed to be.
> Or else they should have added a small tailpipe on the exhaust outlet to direct the exhaust down.
> Like said try to wire tie it to the other side?
> Brand new? I would ask for a new cable?


Agree Big Ed -- poor design! There should be a better way to exhaust rather than pushing it out there. Just curious how others are dealing with this...

Thanks.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Take a piece of metal pipe and fix it to the handlebar bracket?
Run the cable through the inside?
That is the handlebar bracket we see?


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Toro engineering not doing enough rd in the real world IMO. There 721 commercial blower had garbage metal nylon scrapers. They just had a recall on new machine cause auger can stay on. Nothing like using customers as rd lab


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

Big Ed said:


> Take a piece of metal pipe and fix it to the handlebar bracket?
> Run the cable through the inside?
> That is the handlebar bracket we see?


Yes, that's the handle bar bracket. Even if the cable is covered, it will still get hot with the exhaust blowing on it. In the parts manual, the housing shows a bit of a flange that angles downward which is not like mine (open hole as shown in picture). Somehow the exhaust needs to be diverted. But covering the cable with some form of metal or heat retardant fabric, that may work. As long as it doesn't snap it should be ok...I hope!


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

groomerz said:


> Toro engineering not doing enough rd in the real world IMO. There 721 commercial blower had garbage metal nylon scrapers. They just had a recall on new machine cause auger can stay on. Nothing like using customers as rd lab
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They keep selling though! Other than this issue, it seems like a great machine and I can likely DIYer around some of these issues but we shouldn't have to. This is a simple design fix!


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

I look at it as missing something. Clearly the handle is in line with the exhaust too, the cable just happens to be there also. I have worked on these and they used to be different, and not that long ago. Personally i think it's flat out designed wrong even without the cable, the exhaust shouldn't blow on the handle either.
Wrapping the area to insulate it from heat is simply putting towels down to "fix" a leaky faucet. 
I just looked up some 721E's and they all look different so yours must be the new "improved" model


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

oneboltshort said:


> I look at it as missing something. Clearly the handle is in line with the exhaust too, the cable just happens to be there also. I have worked on these and they used to be different, and not that long ago. Personally i think it's flat out designed wrong even without the cable, the exhaust shouldn't blow on the handle either.
> Wrapping the area to insulate it from heat is simply putting towels down to "fix" a leaky faucet.
> I just looked up some 721E's and they all look different so yours must be the new "improved" model
> View attachment 176316
> ...


Yes, the design is different and the model, 38753, is new. Aside from this aspect, I DO like the unit. I'll have to keep at it w Toro and perhaps put the "towel" fix in for the moment! Thanks.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

fjb730 said:


> Yes, the design is different and the model, 38753, is new. Aside from this aspect, I DO like the unit. I'll have to keep at it w Toro and perhaps put the "towel" fix in for the moment! Thanks.


The older model 621\721 used a bare stainless steel cable and was routed as the above machine shows. The exhaust routing on the new exposed engine models do need a redesign.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

That is a poor design, done by a college educated in 'no common sense' engineer.
There should be an exhaust deflector because no matter where you try to relocate the cable, it will melt from the exhaust heating the handlebar pipe.
That is also another way that China is getting their revenge on us by making something like that to fail on purpose.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

ST1100A said:


> That is a poor design, done by a college educated in 'no common sense' engineer.
> There should be an exhaust deflector because no matter where you try to relocate the cable, it will melt from the exhaust heating the handlebar pipe.
> That is also another way that China is getting their revenge on us by making something like that to fail on purpose.


Agreed...you don't need a college education to figure this one out...surprised there isn't more a complaint. I may start one!


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Grunt said:


> The older model 621\721 used a bare stainless steel cable and was routed as the above machine shows. The exhaust routing on the new exposed engine models do need a redesign.


Seems strange to go to a plastic covered cable that is subject to the melting from exhaust in the newer models. Hopefully the OP will contact the dealer and or Toro and let them know. All the reviews are excellent on the entire 721 lineup.
As far as the recall on the 826 OHAE it is just some of the serial numbers which suggests that either a faulty part was used in production or not adjusted correctly in production. My 826 OHAE was not in the recall.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

I just got off the phone with Toro. They said, "yes, unfortunately this new model has the exhaust in this location and causes melting. It has been sent "up" for further review...". In my view, they need to provide an after market attachment to deflect the exhaust but even when they do, it'll likely still be heated near the cable and handle. They are sending me another cable to address any issues that may come over time from too much exhaust/heat. It sounds like the earlier versions were not designed this way. I'll post some updates making buyers aware!


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

could be a fire hazard recall coming...... just shortly after the risk of amputation recall on another toro. im a toro fan...sure hope they dont go down the tubes.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

I asked about a recall on this item/situation and he said it was too soon to tell. Clearly, their Quality Control and "testing" was non-existent on this as it's one of the first things you see after initially running it. It likely didn't come up in reviews as it may be too new of a design, not sure. Either way, I'm going to post something on the Home Depot and Toro sites to warn other buyers.


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

They should have stayed with the old design where muffler's exhaust port was routed away from the handlebar and the clutch cable.

My slightly older 721E (model number 38742, s/n in the 402082000 - 404309999 range, believed to be ~2017 vintage) features the previous design. I think they stayed with the old design until 2019 or so.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

Yes, you're right. We'll see how they address it!

BTW - I posted a review on Home Depot's site last night with a "2" rating and they said my review was rejected as it didn't comply with their policies, etc. I used the word "beware" in the title but other than that I can't imagine why it was rejected. I'm going to reword it with 'less threating" words I guess but I'm surprised about that. I don't typically leave many reviews but when I do they are honest -- and 99% of the time positive. People need to be aware of this issue before they purchase the blower. Like I said, I really like the unit but this faulty design is a problem.

Thanks.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Too bad you couldn't just add something like this?
They also sell flex exhaust hoses for generators.
Just a thought.
What is your outlet dimension?


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

It's approx. 1". Yes, it essentially needs a contoured tailpipe! Good thinking. I'll look into it in the offseason after I see where Toro goes with this. The NEED to get an aftermarket kit to be attached. Other than that, I hope they haven't changed anything else on the system as I'd like it to run for a number of years!


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Zavie said:


> Seems strange to go to a plastic covered cable that is subject to the melting from exhaust in the newer models. Hopefully the OP will contact the dealer and or Toro and let them know. All the reviews are excellent on the entire 721 lineup.
> As far as the recall on the 826 OHAE it is just some of the serial numbers which suggests that either a faulty part was used in production or not adjusted correctly in production. My 826 OHAE was not in the recall.


They use plastic covered cable because the cable goes 90 degrees around a nylon guide near the idler pulley. Without the plastic the cable would wear a groove into the guide and cable would get jammed into groove a auger would not stop when bail handle was released. 


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

Yes, the plastic covering is logical and serves a necessary purpose. They simply needed to design the exhaust output differently!


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

My 2017 Toro 721R 38741 has an uncoated cable and takes a 90 degree bend to the idler pulley exactly like the new models so the cable does not have to have the plastic coating.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

Regardless of the plastic coating, there can be a flexible metal sheath or something similar (like lawn mower controls), to protect it perhaps. Either way, the exhaust should not be directly across from it or the lower handle bar attachment as the heat will destruct it over time, (IMO).


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## Jatoxico (Jan 6, 2018)

Toro's heated handlebar design. Interesting to see what kind of customer service they provide. I have and like Toro equipment.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

I'll report back with updates as things develop...could be a while, we'll see!


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## mikead98 (Jul 21, 2020)

fjb730 said:


> No, it has to be on this side as it connects inside the Arm Idler inside the Rotor Drive Assembly. But you're right, the exhaust should be diverted differently! I may need to wrap the cable with a metal cover. Again, poor design!


I would say buy some exhaust tape from a auto parts store and wrap the cable in that one spot


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

OK. I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the suggestion...I've never used it. Does it repel the heat or it just won't melt but still get hot. the other concern is the heat on the cable over time.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

groomerz said:


> They use plastic covered cable because the cable goes 90 degrees around a nylon guide near the idler pulley. Without the plastic the cable would wear a groove into the guide and cable would get jammed into groove a auger would not stop when bail handle was released.


Because of past problems with wear on the guide, Toro came out with an aluminum guide that works good with the uncoated stainless cable. Hopefully they will correct the exhaust heat problem.
Toro 140-3660 Clutch Cable Guide Replacement Kit Genuine OEM replaces 108-4919 | eBay


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Is the angle of the handle adjustable? Because the handle/cable looks a good bit closer to the muffler outlet in some of your pics vs the others. It seems that when comparing it to the previous design, the more open engine design of the later models moved the muffler back and up, closer to the cable/handle. Hope they come up with a solution soon because I like the 721 and 821.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

no, unfortunately it's in a fixed position secured to the frame. As you likely know, the handle can fold over when not in use but the lower end which keeps the cable and bar close to the muffler exhaust is fixed. Toro will need to provide an aftermarket pipe to direct the exhaust away from the cable. Again, just a REALLY bad design!


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Some way to redirect the exhaust hmmmmmm.....


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Ah, yes. Buy a NEW snowblower!
So many less problems....snort....snicker...


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

i think we should drive the product company (Toro) to adapt and change...heck, they are using us as a test bed -- it's a defect...fix it!


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

fjb730 said:


> i think we should drive the product company (Toro) to adapt and change...heck, they are using us as a test bed -- it's a defect...fix it!


It depends on the number of complaints that reach Toro and it's dealer network. Only Toro knows those numbers. Some customers will be happy with a new cable. Time will tell.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Zavie said:


> It depends on the number of complaints that reach Toro and it's dealer network. Only Toro knows those numbers. Some customers will be happy with a new cable. Time will tell.


And the new cable will do the same thing?
Tell them you want a case of cables.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

The issue with an elbow on the exhaust is that if it extends beyond the case then it could potentially pose a burn hazard. Then you have an injury and lawsuit on your hands. I'd be surprised if Toro went that route


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

yes, cables are just band-aids...tailpipes would be a cure (sort of!)...at least better.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

Zavie said:


> The issue with an elbow on the exhaust is that if it extends beyond the case then it could potentially pose a burn hazard. Then you have an injury and lawsuit on your hands. I'd be surprised if Toro went that route


Yes, likely it would be a flange down at least re-directing the exhaust.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Or, a modified cable with heat insulator where it passes the exhaust.
Question: is the similar 821 also subject to the same issue?


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

I wonder what the exhaust temperatures are on the area where the melting occurred? Seems cheapest solution is changing material of cable to a plastic with higher melting point


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

LouC said:


> Or, a modified cable with heat insulator where it passes the exhaust.
> Question: is the similar 821 also subject to the same issue?


I looked at a couple of videos of the new 821s and they seem to have the same design. I posted a question asking about it. Not sure if others are just putting up with it.


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## fjb730 (Feb 20, 2021)

Zavie said:


> I wonder what the exhaust temperatures are on the area where the melting occurred? Seems cheapest solution is changing material of cable to a plastic with higher melting point


Yes, perhaps but it does get very hot. Especially after about 30-45 min of use. It's interesting to look at the older model design where the exhaust, carb, etc., look more forward. Perhaps they thought this would be a better weight distribution. It's actually hard to see the exhaust and cable alignment in all the Toro marketing pictures. Not that I would have noticed or realized it had I seen it ahead of time but perhaps they do know but are trying to hard it somewhat!


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Next time I run mine I'll get out the IR Temp gun and see how hot the muffler gets on my 2 stroke. Keep in mine that even 100 *F feel just warm to your hand. 130-140 and above is uncomfortable, but wont' burn...I know this from checking water cooled exhaust on inboard boats. The temp of the exhaust gas coming out may be a good bit hotter than the temp of the metal.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Zavie said:


> Seems cheapest solution is changing material of cable to a plastic with higher melting point


The older model Power Clears just had a stainless steel cable with NO cladding.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

fjb730 said:


> It's interesting to look at the older model design where the exhaust, carb, etc., look more forward. Perhaps they thought this would be a better weight distribution.


I believe the weight distribution is the same as the older models and the difference is the engines are now fully exposed rather than being covered by the larger shrouds of the old models.The old models have the muffler extended forward and my GUESS is Toro is saving money by shortening the shrouds and using a standard muffler.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

fjb730 said:


> Yes, perhaps but it does get very hot. Especially after about 30-45 min of use. It's interesting to look at the older model design where the exhaust, carb, etc., look more forward. Perhaps they thought this would be a better weight distribution. It's actually hard to see the exhaust and cable alignment in all the Toro marketing pictures. Not that I would have noticed or realized it had I seen it ahead of time but perhaps they do know but are trying to hard it somewhat!


OK just out of curiosity I ran mine for a while (not blowing snow but just tipped up with the auger engaged) and used my IR temp gun to read the temp of the muffler outlet, it was between 200-220*F. The rest of the muffler was much cooler like about 130-140* and the cylinder itself was about the same temp. But this was not from running under a typical load which may well produce higher temps. So if that muffler outlet protruded it could get hot enough to burn someone. If they changed the design to extend it then I would imagine they'd have to put a guard over that part as well. Easier just to replace the cable with an all stainless cable with no plastic cladding.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 9, 2021)

A bit late to the show but as I see it there needs to be a heat shield attached to the handle that keeps the heat off the cable and the handle itself . This shouldn't be too difficult and perhaps if we work together keeping on Toro with complaints then they will move on it . 
I worked for the head Canadian office of Stihl for 17years and we had to deal with customer and engineering issues as well so I've seen a few things . I'll have to tell you about the vibrating TS760 Cutquick saw that the Stihl engineers in Germany kept telling us it wasn't a problem.....hahaha!!


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

I saw a new 721E in an Ace Hardware store & it looks like they changed the design in that the muffler & shroud appear to be higher up than before.


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