# 221QZE Starter Motor Issue



## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

Gentlemen, I noticed this season that this machine was hard to start so I did the Seafoam Italian tune-up on it, installed a fuel cut off and that is resolved for now. However when using the electric start, which I have rarely used, the motor intermittently engaged, or so I thought. The starter does engage but groans like it doesn't have enough torque to turn the engine. If I stay on the button it may or may not turn over eventually. And sometimes in turns over fine. I noticed this symtom gets worse in the cold. And as I'm aging I need the starter to work for cold weather use.

So I'm pretty sure I need a new starter. My question is since it sounds like the motor itself, not the gears, is the culprit, would it be worth having it rebuilt? Any advice is greatly appreciated


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

It may need a cla. Clean lube adjust. But first check wiring.

An expert will be here soon


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

I cleaned up the ground wire but that didn't help. The bigger problen is getting ghat bottim bolt undone. It looks like a real PITA. Thanks.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

I think I may have figured out what the problem is. As I said I almost never used the starter until recently. Is it possible my 50'😳🙄 extension cord is sucking up to much voltage for the motor? I ordered a shorter cord and will try that before anything else. Hopefully I didn't damage the motor.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Voltage drop should not be enough, unless you were using a very thin cord. I still think a good cleaning and proper lube will get the motor working.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

I think its 16ga. Can you tell I really don't want to pull it? 😂 Thanks again.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

The voltage drop is less than 2 volts, certainly within 5 volts. Maybe a diagram of the starter will show us a way to lube part without removing.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

I did spray the bendix with triflow but there is a shroud over it so I spayed it the best I could. As I said it sounds like its engaging the flywheel but wont spin. Here's a picture. Thanks.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

How good are the contacts. Plug ones. Bend a bit.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

You know I thought about trying that but didn't thinking the connection was good but the cover is off and will try that ASAP. Thanks.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Carefully. Is the cord making good contact with the motor ones


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

I was referring to the key switch. Sorry. I'm pretty sure it is as I try to be careful to make sure it's seated properly. I'm getting a new shorter, 25ft, 14ga extension cord and I'll make sure I clean tne prongs on the blower. Thanks. It's raining todayand tomorrow.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

I do wonder if the switch is failing a bit. An electrical tester will make quick work of that.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

I will test that also. Thanks.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

As you said Tony, the heavier cord changed nothing. The key switch is not part of the starter circuit so that was my bad. Tomorrow I will disassemble the actual starter switch and test that. I could use some advice since I know very little about electrics on small motors. Am I testing for voltage, current or resistance? Thanks.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

The starter button or such may be. I assume the contacts to connect the plug are clean.
Test continuity between the ground and the plugs. The starter ground. See if you can pull the starter. Maybe a pro will chime in here.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Shows only two bolts holding the starter in. Wonder if getting some libe on them will make the job easier.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

Tony-chicago said:


> Shows only two bolts holding the starter in. Wonder if getting some libe on them will make the job easier.


I did clean up the ground but the bolt goes through the shroud for the recoil so I may need go deeper there. And the button switch also. What concerns me about the bolts is the location. I'll need to remove the black plastic dashboard to get better access. Thanks for the meter test tips. Much appreciated.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

After looking at donyboy73 videos, lets hope it is not burnt inside. Maybe the connections are poor or so. Therefore weak electrical. Maybe a bad brush or two.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

That's kind of what my gut is telling me. If that is it I think I might try to find a shop to rebuild it since the bendix seems to work so well. I've seen so many with mangled gears on YT I'd hate to buy a new one and then have the gears strip like so many do.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Maybe just a bit of lube on the throw out part. Or the brushes are ... 
Just do not have it plugged in when you do this...


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

Tony-chicago said:


> Maybe just a bit of lube on the throw out part. Or the brushes are ...
> Just do not have it plugged in when you do this...


Not sure what you mean by throw out part. I can see the gear is engaged after the button is pushed. It always engages the flywheel. Every time. I thought the brushes were inside the motor casing so it needs to be removed to access them.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Yes you are right. Seen comments on donyboys videos. Sometimes it helps.


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

So it seems it is definitely something with the motor itself and that's a good thing. I'm thinking that it's a question of lack of use and the brushes and stator(commutator?) may have glazed over with corrosion causing a voltage drop. Purchased in Jan 2011, the starter was used once to make sure it worked and was never used again until last winter.

So the plan is to see if I can get a local electric motor shop to look at it and if I can't, then I will take a shot with YT's help. Thanks for all the advice especially to Tony-chicago.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

You can do it!


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

So here is a video of what the starter is doing. It seems to happen faster in the cold. This clip was made on a 50F day. I removed and disassembled the starter and the commutator does look pretty dirty but as I'm no master mechanic I'm wondering if this might be a different problem. Any ideas are appreciated. Video link below.

Toro Starter Issue


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

So the motor was too damaged. Bought a new motor from Amazon and installed it today. We'll see next winter. For some reason that bottom bolt won't cooperate unless the machine is tilted onto the auger belt side.


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