# Please help with snowblower choice



## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

I’d really like some input/help in deciding what snowblower to purchase.
My 23 yr old MTD 12/33 is no longer reliable and I’m tired spending time fixing her.
I live in Sudbury Ontario where we often get 6-10 inches of snow at a time and sometimes a lot more.
My driveway is quite steep (so looking for tracks) and is interlock stone. I also regularly do my elderly neighbours paved driveway.
The city’s plow always leaves a large EOD mess for me and that has been a huge challenge for my MTD.

So far I’ve found two potential contenders. Their price is the same 

1) Ariens Hydro Pro Track 28 (926060)

- my concerns are: that this RapidTrak model design is only two years old.. has it proven itself.. any issues??
Engine is EFI so is that one more thing to break down??
Dry Weight is a heavy 336 lbs... i’m not getting any younger lol.
I wanted to see a Platinum 28 RapidTrak but he didn’t have one to show me. 


2) Honda HSS928ACT

- my concerns are; “Chute Gate”. I do get heavy wet snow at times. Are Canadian Honda’s coming equipped with the new chute design or is that only happening in the US or should I even care?
- not electric start (that option is an extra $450) will it be hard to pull?

SIMILARITIES - Both seem to be well built. I’m aware of Honda reliability and I understand Ariens reliable as well.Warranty is the same. 

I also considered the Yamaha YS1028J but it was quite a bit more expensive. 
All comments are welcomed.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

They are both great machines. At my age the electric start would make a difference. If the Ariens with electric start is $400 or more less expensive than the Honda without it - - - Ariens.


.


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

The Honda with no electric start is the same asking price as the Ariens that has electric start. 
And as for the new Honda Chute, how can I tell if the new unit came shipped with it already installed.
My Honda dealer up here in Canada is oblivious to the chute clogging issue.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

andersi said:


> ...as for the new Honda Chute, how can I tell if the new unit came shipped with it already installed.


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## Cold1 (Dec 20, 2017)

Welcome from western New Brunswick, Andersi!

Both of your choices are very capable machines which I'm sure would serve you well. 

I think you'd have no problem pulling the Honda to start it. My Ariens 306cc pulls easily and nearly always requires just one pull - it has an electric starter, but I never bother with it. I'm sure the 270cc Honda would do the same and should pull over a bit easier due to smaller displacement. The Hydro Pro 28 has a 420 cc engine which I assume will need more effort. If you did want to use electric start, remember that the Ariens has 120 volt AC electric start (i.e. you will need to plug an extension cord into a 120 V outlet to use the starter). The Honda uses 12 volt DC (on-board battery, just turn the key and go). While it costs extra $$$, Honda system is a lot more convenient, imo - no need to wind up an extension cord after each use. Just something to consider.


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

I came from an old 1990 ST1236 Ariens which served me well for 28 years and was a beast for moving snow. It was also a beast to move around. At 66, I decided I deserved one more new more maneuverable machine even though the old one was still doing everything just fine. I went with the Ariens you are considering and have zero regrets so far. We've not had a storm so to speak yet, but have had over 50" with 14" in a day the most so far. The 28" Pro Hydro Trak is not EFI this year. It is extremely easy to start. I've yet to even try the electric start. One pull. I'm very satisfied with it. 

I started a thread on my purchase. You can get some input from it if you like

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/for...4527-28-pro-hydro-rapidtrak-1st-thoughts.html

And also this one has input on both machines. My #36 post on page 4 bullets the reasons I went the Ariens way.

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/general-snowblower-discussion/144749-personal-opinion.html


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

Fantastic, thanks for this pic! I’m expecting a call back from the local Honda rep today and I will now know what to look for. It would be nice to know if Honda Canada will swap out the chute under warranty.... if needed, if these units are coming with the same old “collared” chute.


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

Thanks for that Steve. Both the Ariens and Honda seem to be easy to “move around” when engine not running... but i’d give the Ariens a slight lead there over the Honda. I’m now wondering how the autoturn systems compare on both makes..... is one significantly better than the other?
My old MTD engine would bog down and stall in heavy use so i’m hoping both engines have enough oomph. I read the posts about re-jetting the Honda but I’m wondering if we have the smaller jet on our Canadian models.


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

andersi said:


> Thanks for that Steve. Both the Ariens and Honda seem to be easy to “move around” when engine not running... but i’d give the Ariens a slight lead there over the Honda. I’m now wondering how the autoturn systems compare on both makes..... is one significantly better than the other?
> My old MTD engine would bog down and stall in heavy use so i’m hoping both engines have enough oomph. I read the posts about re-jetting the Honda but I’m wondering if we have the smaller jet on our Canadian models.


One of the Honda negatives for me was a 8.5 HP engine on a 28" cut. The Ariens is putting out 13.5 or so. The 28 Ariens moves much more snow per hour than the 28 Honda. The 420CC Briggs is very quiet.

As for autoturn, you can follow my comments as I get used to it. I just came in from about 4" and some plow stuff. I'm getting handy with what each position will do. The wheeled position works very well for much of the work. I've purposely been driving over the driveway with snow on it to build up some tracks to test the track mode. The regular track mode will scrape up fairly well because of the increased weight on the front. The dig mode really digs in, but you have to go slow to be effective. The dig mode xfers enough force to the front that I can barely budge the front end by pushing down on the handlebars. I'm 6'1" / 200 pounds. I used to be closer to 6'2" 

The Platinum set up is a bit different. Smaller engine, but EFI. Friction disc....Not hydrostatic tranny. I really like this hydro tranny, You can literally inch along if in dig mode.


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

Steve70 said:


> The wheeled position works very well for much of the work.


I’m hoping the wheeled position will work the majority of time on my steep drive. I really need the traction though for the EOD mess. I’m also glad that it is NOT EFI. In my opinion that’s just one more thing that could cause problems. I have no issue with carbs as I only use non-ethanol fuel and run the carbs dry after every use.
I know the kinda snow you get over in the UP. I’m about 3 hours east of the Sault. I look forward to your future updates.


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

andersi said:


> I’m hoping the wheeled position will work the majority of time on my steep drive. I really need the traction though for the EOD mess. I’m also glad that it is NOT EFI. In my opinion that’s just one more thing that could cause problems. I have no issue with carbs as I only use non-ethanol fuel and run the carbs dry after every use.
> I know the kinda snow you get over in the UP. I’m about 3 hours east of the Sault. I look forward to your future updates.


Almost neighbors  I'll input as possible till 1/4/19. At almost 67 and 70, we go warm after the holidays for the rest of the winter. I 'rationalized' this purchase for a couple reasons: I've had the same machine for 28 years and also that maybe we'll be forced back here sooner than we want to be and I'll have more full winters to blow snow. My 84 year old neighbor still blows his driveway. 

I'm thinking the wheels would do well for you. I've been doing some extra playing with the track positions...and creating some dig / scrape conditions I didn't have to. 

I just looked. We've had about 65" so far. Wouldn't be unusual to see between 80-100" by the time we go. That's probably more than some reading here get all year. 320" is our record from the mid / late 90s. I'm hoping for a good 2 footer plus before we go. Give her a good test! I've been blowing snow for probably 55 years, but still have fun playing with a new toy 

One more thought on engine size: Moving a full set of tracks takes more HP than wheels ...thereby reducing grunt to the augers. It's possible Honda accounted for this by reducing the amount of snow it can move relative to a same size Ariens.


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

Spoke to another Honda dealer today it appears that his track blowers all have the new style of chute.
It’s weird too that he also had no idea about chute clogging issues and the subsequent “fix”.
I really like he fact that the Honda allows you to adjust the housing height by a push of a button.
The Honda price now is about 100 bucks cheaper than the Ariens but I would be losing the electric start and heated grips that are on the Ariens. I can’t help but feel Ariens very shortly will be making modifications to the rapidtrak system which will make an already excellent unit even better. I know both units are “tanks” but i’m still conflicted as to which one I should choose....ahhh😫😫.


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## LDRider (Jan 24, 2018)

If you check, I believe the 12 volt electric start HSS928's sold in Canada also have the auger protection system as well as electric start. This is a nice option for those of us who have 'less than wonderful' driveways and tend to break shear pins (shear bolts on a Honda). Another big difference is that the Ariens is basically a wheeled machine with a follower wheel that can be positioned downward so as to put down pressure downward onto the front of the snowblower but has no ability to lift the front end or float the front end at any height above the ground. In other words, it changes from basically a wheeled machine to a track machine with cutting edge down pressure. The Honda has the entire snowblower pivot inside the track chassis so that it can be positioned and locked with the cutting edge at ground level with varying pressure or locked with the cutting edge and entire front of the snowblower set at any distance you want w/in the range of resting on the ground to perhaps 4" to 5" above the ground. This allows the Honda tracked models to be set a little high for some part of use while the Ariens rapidtrack models, and all wheeled blowers would have to have down pressure on the handlebars to keep the front edge lifted up.

I am not sure about Ariens auto-turn system but the Hondas will actually power themselves around due to the track clutches. It still needs a bit of side pressure on the handlebars to make a sharp turn but again, it is a power- assisted turn while all turning on the Ariens is done by the user pushing on the handlebars. That is not an awful thing but I did find the Honda tracked models, even the relatively large 1332 easier to actually steer and use, at least on dry pavement at the dealer's, than either the Ariens wheeled or tracked models.

For these two reasons (APS and bucket height control), I bought a Honda HSS 1332 this fall instead of any other brand or model. The HSS 928 is not available with the auger protection system in the US (what's up with that BTW?) so the only model that has it is the 1332. Though I would have purchased an HSS 928 tracked model if the APS was on those machines in the US. At the price of one of a 1332, money really falls out of the choice because any other brand's top model can be purchased for about the same price or less. 

Brian





andersi said:


> I’d really like some input/help in deciding what snowblower to purchase.
> My 23 yr old MTD 12/33 is no longer reliable and I’m tired spending time fixing her.
> I live in Sudbury Ontario where we often get 6-10 inches of snow at a time and sometimes a lot more.
> My driveway is quite steep (so looking for tracks) and is interlock stone. I also regularly do my elderly neighbours paved driveway.
> ...


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

LDRider said:


> The HSS 928 is not available with the auger protection system in the US (what's up with that BTW?)


It’s crazy imo for Honda to have some options available for Canadian models but not for ones sold in the US. One assembly line would seem more efficient to me.
Also, as far as I know Honda Canada is not acknowledging the clogged chute issue that is prevalent in the US. Wet and slushy snow is the same on both sides of the border.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

andersi said:


> My driveway is quite steep (so looking for tracks) and is interlock stone. ...
> The city’s plow always leaves a large EOD mess for me and that has been a huge challenge for my MTD.



I don't know much about RapidTrak, I haven't read a lot of discussion of it, from actual owners. 

I'd expect that traditional tracks will offer more traction than RT, as they are longer. In addition their ability to hold the bucket up off the ground, if that's useful for you. Like with a gravel driveway, or if clearing a path through the yard. 

When your 12/33 struggles with the EOD, how is it struggling? For traction? Or for power? The Honda will likely be less powerful than your MTD, the Ariens will likely be more powerful. If you're having power problems, even when taking partial-width cuts, that might be a vote for the big engine in the Ariens. 

And 65" so far, 320" max?? Holy crap that's a lot of snow! Here around Boston, we broke records 4 years ago with a little over 100", as I recall, in the city. And I thought *that* was a lot. 



I haven't gotten to use AutoTurn or triggers in actual practice, only in the showroom. But there have been a number of people unhappy with AutoTurn's behavior. I think Ariens made a change a year or two ago to shift the axle forward, lessening the weight on the bucket, which apparently helped. But I don't know if that adjustment applied to tracked machines as well. AutoTurn concerns me a bit because it has to try and guess at what you want, and sometimes it will guess wrong. I prefer the idea of systems that you control directly.


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

RedOctobyr;1620585
When your 12/33 struggles with the EOD said:


> Struggled mainly for traction so I often found myself “muscling it along” cognizant enough not to get ahead of the engine if you know what I mean. My 80 year old neighbour adored the 12/33 (Tecumseh engine) for doing the EOD cleanup.
> When researching new units I quickly ruled out the Honda 7/24 figuring like you suggested that it might be too much of a drop in HP so I started looking at the Honda 928.
> I have a large stamped concrete patio where the ability to raise the bucket would be a huge benefit.
> The Ariens definitely has all the power I will ever need. I’m just not sure how the Rapidtrak system (fairly new design) stacks up in “track mode” against the Honda.
> Steve70 and his new Rapidtrak have been great to hear from.


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

The lockable pivot action of the Hondas inside the chassis is definitely a nice feature and engineering kudo, although I would question why you ever need to lift more than an inch or two? I have no need of ever raising the front so it's a moot point. The guy who had the HSS928 I tried out a month ago demonstrated the pivot feature. His only complaint was the amount of shear bolts he was going through. He surmised that maybe the augers themselves were set a tad to far forward allowing them to contact bad stuff before the housing hit it first. He has no gravel...only cement and asphalt. As I mentioned elsewhere, one thing that stuck out for me on the 928 was the old fashioned choke lever set up..just another linkage to keep lubed so it doesn't get water in the cabling and freeze up IMO.

I'd be curious how much down force can be exerted on the Honda front end using the pivot feature? The Ariens in regular track mode scrapes quite well due to quite a bit of downforce on the front end. I'm finding the wheeled position will probably take care of most of what I need to do. In the wheeled position the autoturn is pretty much fingertip control it turns so easily. AT in regular track mode takes a little getting used to, but it works well too. A few on this forum are putting another notch on the RT bar to add a position for gravel. 

How does the Honda turn with the engine off? With the Ariens shut off, you just pull the pin out and it will spin on a dime. Pretty handy if I just want to reposition it in the garage for whatever reason. 

Because we're gone a chunk of the winter now, I no longer needed, or wanted, a 36" cut. Having had Ariens for over 30 years, I wanted to go the Honda way for a change. The electric bells and whistles on the Honda were appealing, but also added to more stuff that can go wrong...and a new battery every few years. I wanted a 28, but the Honda 28 had a 8.5 HP engine. I didn't care for that so was set to order a 1332 (which takes up more room as well) this past June when I decided to give the Ariens a look. (the 28 Ariens moves close to the same amount of snow per hour as the 32 Honda and 22 tons more per hour than the 928 honda) I have electric start but have never used it. One easy pull and I'm in business as it was for 28 years with my old ST1236. I never used the electric start on it either. ...and then there was the handwarmers  ...and drift cutters and skid bars included for $2899. 

I think both brands are fine machines, but my DD led me to the Ariens. My only regret would be that this will more than likely be my last machine so variety won't be part of my snowblowing experience. I'm sure the Hondas fit the bill perfectly for many reading here.

Forgot to mention the Honda chute clogging issue. Regardless of the fix, how could Honda possibly let this through? Seems like snowblowing 101 to me. Maybe I just don't know enough of the story?


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## CarbineMan (Jan 8, 2018)

We bought a 2015 Honda HS928 track machine in 2015. This is the predecessor to the machine currently on the market.

When it came time to buy another last season, while we liked the track drive and hydrostatic drive, and whil the HSS addressed some of the shortcomings, we bought the much higher capacity Ariens. 

The 420cc engine starts first pull and is not a difficult: YMMV. The Honda starts every time second pull. Try it at the dealer if that is a concern.


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

What a pair of machines! I just got back from the Honda dealership and they will be compiling a quote for me that includes a set of front skid plates and delivery (about 35 miles away).
For everyone’s information the Canadian Honda units still are coming equipped with the problemed
“collared” chute ... uggh 🙄. And there is no plan from Honda Canada to do any chute change at their cost. Now I could see how it goes with the regular chute but if their is a problemn I will have to buy the new chute myself which I think I saw on the forum was about $80.... in Canada guaranteed over a hundred bucks. 
In the meantime I’m heading back out the door to the Ariens dealer for another look.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the chute issue only happens with a certain type of snowfall, and a lot of people have never had it happen.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I may be wrong, but I thought people in the US had found the new chute for about $30?


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

gibbs296 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought the chute issue only happens with a certain type of snowfall, and a lot of people have never had it happen.


That is true but since Honda realized that there a potential clogging issue with wet snow why wouldn’t they cover the “fix” up here in Canada as well? Canada get lots of snow... all types. Imo it’s just a bad business decision by Honda which is rare for them.
My Ariens visit will have to wait until Monday... closed early today.


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## LDRider (Jan 24, 2018)

Excellent points and observations IMO.

Yes, it does seem that Honda's eat shear bolts like PEZ candy if on anything but a clean, level surface (pavement, concrete, etc.) such as gravel, grass with the occasional piece of debris. The problem <seems> to me to be that in addition to the auger being a bit low in relationship to the scraper bar (meaning it is lower to the surface being snow blown), it is a much tighter fit to the auger housing. This has been the vast majority of my problems- the machine is quick to pick up a small stone or piece of debris and it cannot go around with the auger and jams against the auger housing. Most other machines I have looked at have significantly more clearance here. Not sure if this is really a design flaw, after all, it was designed to blow snow, not rocks. But while they may be more efficient, and I believe they are, because of the auger fit, they are also less forgiving. I am putting all my faith in the new auger protection system to address this situation- fingers crossed but plenty of shear bolts left from the last machine too. :grin: If it does not prove to be a huge improvement over the old machine, I may well and with a different machine yet, most probably a Toro or Ariens.

As to the pivoting snowblower inside the track carriage, yes that is an interesting and clever design. But only on the HSS machines has Honda really allowed this feature to be really exploited with the infinite positioning on these machines. As to down-force, while I cannot give you a specific number, it is 'a lot' because if you set it to the lowest position and try to lift the auger housing you will find there is perhaps 1/3 of the snowblower's weight on the skids, which is a tremendous amount- at a WAG, perhaps 100 lbs. or so on the 1332. One last addition would make this design almost perfect and that would be a 'float' position where one could lock the gas cylinder in the 'open' or unlocked position, allowing the actual weight on the skids to remain as the ground shape changes. In other words, the machine would be free to pivot, and act very much like a wheeled machine for most of its use and then locked in position only when needed to keep the scraper down to dig and not ride up, or somewhat lifted to leave some snow behind. 

The HSS Hondas turn very well with both wheel (or track) clutches released (pulled in). The wheeled machines have no resistance at all and act like the old Ariens that had open differentials and simply turn. The track machines take a bit of force to drive at least one track, but not much- certainly less than a 10 yr. old could produce with one hand. The earlier machines, with their locked axles, were much more difficult to turn, wheeled or tracked. 

I am on the other side of that coin and just replaced an earlier Honda with a current one. But I did seriously consider Ariens and still believe they are excellent, as are Toros IMO. One thing I did not care fore was AutoTurn and would have been far more interested if they had the same wheel clutches that many other machines do; I think a manual and absolute condition (locked axle, one side unlocked or both sides unlocked) is the better solution because it allows the operator to be in a specific condition and stay there, either going straight or turning, and not having to coax it to do either one while really in both modes all the time.

Brian



Steve70 said:


> The lockable pivot action of the Hondas inside the chassis is definitely a nice feature and engineering kudo, although I would question why you ever need to lift more than an inch or two? I have no need of ever raising the front so it's a moot point. The guy who had the HSS928 I tried out a month ago demonstrated the pivot feature. His only complaint was the amount of shear bolts he was going through. He surmised that maybe the augers themselves were set a tad to far forward allowing them to contact bad stuff before the housing hit it first. He has no gravel...only cement and asphalt. As I mentioned elsewhere, one thing that stuck out for me on the 928 was the old fashioned choke lever set up..just another linkage to keep lubed so it doesn't get water in the cabling and freeze up IMO.
> 
> I'd be curious how much down force can be exerted on the Honda front end using the pivot feature? The Ariens in regular track mode scrapes quite well due to quite a bit of downforce on the front end. I'm finding the wheeled position will probably take care of most of what I need to do. In the wheeled position the autoturn is pretty much fingertip control it turns so easily. AT in regular track mode takes a little getting used to, but it works well too. A few on this forum are putting another notch on the RT bar to add a position for gravel.
> 
> ...


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## North49 (Dec 4, 2018)

CarbineMan said:


> We bought a 2015 Honda HS928 track machine in 2015. This is the predecessor to the machine currently on the market.
> 
> When it came time to buy another last season, while we liked the track drive and hydrostatic drive, and whil the HSS addressed some of the shortcomings, we bought the much higher capacity Ariens.
> 
> The 420cc engine starts first pull and is not a difficult: YMMV. The Honda starts every time second pull. Try it at the dealer if that is a concern.


Since you have both a Ariens and Honda how do you find the two compare when it comes to things like traction and power? Does one tend to slip traction more than the other? How do they compare for EOD cleanup?


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

LDRider said:


> Excellent points and observations IMO.
> 
> Yes, it does seem that Honda's eat shear bolts like PEZ candy if on anything but a clean, level surface (pavement, concrete, etc.) such as gravel, grass with the occasional piece of debris. The problem <seems> to me to be that in addition to the auger being a bit low in relationship to the scraper bar (meaning it is lower to the surface being snow blown), it is a much tighter fit to the auger housing. This has been the vast majority of my problems- the machine is quick to pick up a small stone or piece of debris and it cannot go around with the auger and jams against the auger housing. Most other machines I have looked at have significantly more clearance here. Not sure if this is really a design flaw, after all, it was designed to blow snow, not rocks. But while they may be more efficient, and I believe they are, because of the auger fit, they are also less forgiving. I am putting all my faith in the new auger protection system to address this situation- fingers crossed but plenty of shear bolts left from the last machine too. :grin: If it does not prove to be a huge improvement over the old machine, I may well and with a different machine yet, most probably a Toro or Ariens.
> 
> ...



Thanks Brian ..and good info on the Honda features.

The part I can't understand about the Hondas is the very issue you describe: Breaking auger bolts like PEZ candy...which is happening to the guy I know with a 928 (bought in Jan/Feb of this year) on just cement and asphalt. Or why the auger is set so close to the housing? It doesn't have to be rocks...could be small ice chunks...of bigger ice chunks being chopped into smaller ones. And then the chute clogging issue in heavy wet snow. Why would they go to a chute design that obviously has the propensity to clog in adverse snow conditions? That doesn't seem like very good engineering to me from a world class company

My old ST1236 might have broken a shear pin 5 or 6 times in it's 28 year life with me. That includes chewing up many ice chunks from the plow in the spring and 1000s of inches of snow of all densities. If I took it slow, I could chop ice with that old beast where the front end was jumping off the ground sometimes. I never had a differential issue. I could also bang it right into a step with the augers blowing snow. Never an issue because the augers were never touching anything that would break something. This new one can do the same

The pivot action of the Honda is certainly unique, but I don't see the need of being able to lift it more than a couple inches? I'm sure once the idea hatched the further swing just came with the territory. 

Did you say the Honda can turn easily with the engine off? I find the wheeled position with the pin pulled on the Ariens to be very easy to maneuver

If I understand you right, you like the idea of a 'freewheeling' axle? Where we live, I need a locked axle 80-90% of the time. On our old ST1236, the diff lock pin/knob broke maybe 15 years ago. I only ever used it to move around the garage in the summer. For the last many years, a grade 8 bolt took its place. I've never removed it. 

Coming from a construction mechanical background the Ariens is made from sturdier stock. Looking at the HSS928 and the hydro pro I bought, there's an obvious difference in visual 'sturdiness' And then there's the parts that move snow or come with the machine. The Ariens has a bigger engine, bigger impeller, bigger chute. hand warmers, skid bars, drift cutters, and the 28 Ariens will move 22 tons more per hour than the 28 Honda. In fact it's rated to move almost as much as the 32 Honda. This means a little more room in the garage by going with the 28 Ariens.

I do admit to being out of the loop of new snowblower stuff since 1990 when I bought the 1236. So I'm learning as I go here and always open for DD from everyone. 1994 was my 1st car forum with a 2400 baud modem and dial up connection  That's why I join forums. ...to learn more about the tricks and traps of what I bought.


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## LDRider (Jan 24, 2018)

The auger is close to the auger housing so that snow does not pack onto the housing behind the auger. It is a judgement call on the part of the designers, move the augers in and keep tighter clearance to more efficiently move snow and stop the auger housing from clogging while making the machine more sensitive to debris vs. moving it further away making the machine more tolerant of debris but losing a little efficiency and depending on how far out, risk clogging the machine. In this case though, Honda does seem to be a little more tight on clearance than needed as all the other brand snowblowers are not suffering any undue housing clogging.

Same thing with the impeller clearance- Honda has perhaps the tightest fitting impellers available (stock) but they tend to scrape and beat up the impeller housing when trying to blow debris, especially something like pea-stone from a driveway. More clearance reduces efficiency both in the amount of snow moved as well as throwing distance but the benefit is the ability to pass more debris w/out any damage. 

It is a sore spot with me and Honda snowblowers and I would not have purchased another one except that it came with an electo- mechanical auger protection system, which I have high hopes for.

The chute was simply a mistake almost certainly made by one person. It is there to better control the snow being ejected from the auger housing, and it no doubt does that but it also makes a choke point for the snow. The reason I mention a single person is because we just do not know who did that and what his / her experience (with snowblowers or even general life) is. Perhaps that person lives where it never snows and so has no experience with snowblowers at all- hey, it happens in real life. Having been a machine designer myself, I can say with certainty that the person given the task of designing / choosing a part / conjuring up a methodology may or may not be up to the task; for decades, people designing air conditioning systems in the rust belt of the US were totally unfamiliar with conditions in, say, Nevada and no doubt too the air conditioner as not that important. 

The bucket lifts quite high so the machine can be loaded onto ramps without smashing the machine into the ground or ramps, depending on whether going down or up. And yep, the extra travel was 'free' so no need to overly limit it anyway. 

Yes, the HSS series is easy to turn / move with the engine off because of the new wheel (or track) clutches; just pull in the clutches, which disengages the wheel (or track) on each side and the machine 'freewheels' meaning the wheels (or tracks) are not mechanically connected to the drive. Anyone can turn these new machines with one hand while the earlier HS machines were tougher to move, especially on any surface that had good traction. And the wheels could not be disengaged from the transmission on the earlier (HS) models although a hydraulic bypass was provided. But the bypass did not work all that well and there was still a LOT of drag on the wheels (or tracks) trying to push or pull the machine w/out power to drive it.

'Freewheeling' wheels or tracks are great as long as they can be locked again easily. The Hondas, the larger Toros and some others have wheel (or track) clutches on each side. When released, the axle is locked solid and one wheel cannot be moved in relation to the other wheel. But pull one wheel clutch and one wheel is now disengaged and of course pull both and both wheels are 'freewheeling'. Most useful in turning the machine under power; pull one clutch and there is only power to one side of the machine causing it to turn. 

As to 'sturdiness', the Hondas are, and have been, perfectly adequate IMO. Look around and see if you see any or many Honda snowblowers that are dented, beat- up or in any way suffering from any basic design weakness. Ariens, especially on their larger, high- end machines, tends to use thicker steel for example but that does not mean it is needed or that that machine is better. Once a design hits adequate, additional material is basically a waste and often causes problems itself such as making the machine overly heavy for its task.

Of course, all of that said, I have a very high regard for both Toro and Ariens machines. If I did not get the Honda, my next choice would be a Toro with wheel clutches and the new 'no shear pin' augers (there really are still shear pins in there but they are much, much stronger and the system is designed to actually stall the engine rather than having a sacrificial shear pin). With a set of chains on the tires and <perhaps> some front end weight as needed, I think they would make an excellent snowblower. And a better basic value snowblower than almost any of the very high- end machines; they cost less than 1/2 as much but surely must perform more than 1/2 as well. So this is the bright side IMO, in a world full of mediocrity, we have quite a few choices in some really excellent snowblowers and outdoor power equipment in general. Choosing from any of the better machines, and of course Ariens is one of those, I think a person would really be hard- pressed to pick a truly poor product. 

Brian



Steve70 said:


> Thanks Brian ..and good info on the Honda features.
> 
> The part I can't understand about the Hondas is the very issue you describe: Breaking auger bolts like PEZ candy...which is happening to the guy I know with a 928 (bought in Jan/Feb of this year) on just cement and asphalt. Or why the auger is set so close to the housing? It doesn't have to be rocks...could be small ice chunks...of bigger ice chunks being chopped into smaller ones. And then the chute clogging issue in heavy wet snow. Why would they go to a chute design that obviously has the propensity to clog in adverse snow conditions? That doesn't seem like very good engineering to me from a world class company
> 
> ...


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

LDRider said:


> The auger is close to the auger housing so that snow does not pack onto the housing behind the auger. It is a judgement call on the part of the designers, move the augers in and keep tighter clearance to more efficiently move snow and stop the auger housing from clogging while making the machine more sensitive to debris vs. moving it further away making the machine more tolerant of debris but losing a little efficiency and depending on how far out, risk clogging the machine. In this case though, Honda does seem to be a little more tight on clearance than needed as all the other brand snowblowers are not suffering any undue housing clogging.
> 
> Same thing with the impeller clearance- Honda has perhaps the tightest fitting impellers available (stock) but they tend to scrape and beat up the impeller housing when trying to blow debris, especially something like pea-stone from a driveway. More clearance reduces efficiency both in the amount of snow moved as well as throwing distance but the benefit is the ability to pass more debris w/out any damage.
> 
> ...


Good info again Brian. 

I guess I don't understand the auger / impeller reasoning yet. If these closer tolerances were done for snow moving efficiency, why does the 28 Ariens move 22 more tons per hour than the 28 Honda? There's really no comparison between the two in that area. I've also never experienced any snow build up behind the augers or clogging for that matter. In heavy wet spring snow, I have seen the augers themselves build up with snow, but that has nothing to do with tolerances. 

As regards the chute, you're being much too kind. There's simply no excuse for a mistake like that to hit the pavement from a company renowned for its engineering prowess.


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## LDRider (Jan 24, 2018)

Agreed, the other machines out there are not clogging much so I suppose Honda made a poor choice in auger to auger- housing clearances. Another thing that does not help is the serrated auger- it tends to pick up small stones and hold them until they jam. Though most mfg's seem to be going to serrated augers these days, long ago they were always, I think anyway, smooth. Honda overall tends to keep clearances, tolerances and overall spec.'s tight in an effort to make a 'nice' product. And I am sure their overall answer to this clogging problem was, at least at first, it is a SNOWblower, not a slush- blower or a rock- blower, etc. My point is that I think they tend to be a little clinical in their thinking and designs and just cannot picture how some of their equipment is used in the real, dirty, cluttered with debris world. 

Having been a product designer for a long time, and working for several large companies, I have made my own share of mistakes, missed- suppositions, and outright bad decisions that have gotten all the way through a company to the customer(s) without the owner(s) or executive level management even knowing about it, never mind passing judgement over them. So some guy in Japan came up with an idea to fix a problem, and it did BTW, and he implemented it and generated the necessary paperwork (ECO's, ECN's, etc. to get the change through the system and into production). So the customer often blames "Honda" or "Buick" or whomever when in reality, the company it made up of many small components, people, acting independently, with varying results. So sure, you could blame the entire company, or top level management but really, it was just me making a poor choice / decision / selection. And the real problem comes in when customers complain to 'the company' and get customer service rather than engineering- trust me, the eng. dept. usually never, ever even hears about how something is really actually performing; that clogging blower is literally a four- year old job that took three days to design and process and then the designer forgot about it. Just like everyone else who cannot remember exactly where he / she was standing and what he / she was doing.... four years ago. A couple of times I have been successful in getting engineering into the loop with customers but that has always been with a specialty product, never a mass consumer product such as a snow blower. I am not justifying it, just saying that that is how I have found it to be....

Brian



Steve70 said:


> Good info again Brian.
> 
> I guess I don't understand the auger / impeller reasoning yet. If these closer tolerances were done for snow moving efficiency, why does the 28 Ariens move 22 more tons per hour than the 28 Honda? There's really no comparison between the two in that area. I've also never experienced any snow build up behind the augers or clogging for that matter. In heavy wet spring snow, I have seen the augers themselves build up with snow, but that has nothing to do with tolerances.
> 
> As regards the chute, you're being much too kind. There's simply no excuse for a mistake like that to hit the pavement from a company renowned for its engineering prowess.


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

LDRider said:


> Agreed, the other machines out there are not clogging much so I suppose Honda made a poor choice in auger to auger- housing clearances. Another thing that does not help is the serrated auger- it tends to pick up small stones and hold them until they jam. Though most mfg's seem to be going to serrated augers these days, long ago they were always, I think anyway, smooth. Honda overall tends to keep clearances, tolerances and overall spec.'s tight in an effort to make a 'nice' product. And I am sure their overall answer to this clogging problem was, at least at first, it is a SNOWblower, not a slush- blower or a rock- blower, etc. My point is that I think they tend to be a little clinical in their thinking and designs and just cannot picture how some of their equipment is used in the real, dirty, cluttered with debris world.
> 
> Having been a product designer for a long time, and working for several large companies, I have made my own share of mistakes, missed- suppositions, and outright bad decisions that have gotten all the way through a company to the customer(s) without the owner(s) or executive level management even knowing about it, never mind passing judgement over them. So some guy in Japan came up with an idea to fix a problem, and it did BTW, and he implemented it and generated the necessary paperwork (ECO's, ECN's, etc. to get the change through the system and into production). So the customer often blames "Honda" or "Buick" or whomever when in reality, the company it made up of many small components, people, acting independently, with varying results. So sure, you could blame the entire company, or top level management but really, it was just me making a poor choice / decision / selection. And the real problem comes in when customers complain to 'the company' and get customer service rather than engineering- trust me, the eng. dept. usually never, ever even hears about how something is really actually performing; that clogging blower is literally a four- year old job that took three days to design and process and then the designer forgot about it. Just like everyone else who cannot remember exactly where he / she was standing and what he / she was doing.... four years ago. A couple of times I have been successful in getting engineering into the loop with customers but that has always been with a specialty product, never a mass consumer product such as a snow blower. I am not justifying it, just saying that that is how I have found it to be....
> 
> Brian



Honda has been making snowblowers for many decades now. Japan is no stranger to heavy snow conditions. Looks like about 50K units per year are built for here, Japan, and the rest of the world with snow. They get no slack from me for putting a chute on the street that has a propensity to clog. As I said above (or somewhere), that's snowblowing 101...not something you expect from Honda. Nor the PEZ candy breakage on the auger bolts. Most snow coming in March and April (sometimes May) is heavy and wet. Given the seasons, I would guess a good 30% of all snowfall is heavy and wet. Looks like much of the HSS design may have occurred in NC where any snow will be heavy and wet. 

https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...Honda-Introduces-HSS-Series-Snow-Blowers.html

I'm not anti Honda by any stretch. My dad bought a late 90s Honda snowblower for his last one. He was 82. He had a Sno Bird in the mid 1960s and an old green something before that. He then had one Ariens before the Honda. I ran that Honda many times at his house as their health failed. My brother still runs it. I'm on my 2nd Ridgeline truck (09 and 17). I have a Karcher power washer with a Honda engine (a good 10 pulls to start every time cold, but runs great when started) I'm a equal opportunity buyer of everything. I've had 4 car brands here at the same time before. Only two now. I'm not stuck on one brand of anything. 

I was ready to pull the pin on the HSS1332 this past summer even though I only wanted a 28, It had to be the 32 for me because 8.5 HP, 28" cut, and tracks is not enough power where we live IMO. Tonnage per hour (79/57) between the two 28" machines certainly agrees with that....no matter the efficiency of the Honda engine, auger, and impeller clearances. Yes, I too remember all augers being smooth in the past. When I run up to my porch step with this new one and hit it with the housing, you can see the cut lines from the serrations on the auger in the 1/4-1/2" of snow remaining on the vertical surface of the step. I guess there could be some merit to the serrations from that standpoint. 

As for the overbuilt part, I figured you might come back with what you did about adequate being good enough  It's a valid opinion, but in addition to my opinion of the lesser build and given what I perceived as other shortcomings in the Honda, I ended up going a different way. I also fail to understand why they did the choke the way they did. It makes no sense to me to have a an exposed dashboard rod (capable of ingesting snow/moisture), cabling, and linkage for what should be taken care of right above the carb. It's just one more cable to freeze up and/or maintain.


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## LDRider (Jan 24, 2018)

As I said, absolutely nothing wrong with an Ariens or some other brands, and they will most certainly have advantages over other brands, Honda included. We are just discussing this without the need to justify or especially defend any decisions or thoughts here. I personally am a big fan of Ariens products over the years and while I did not choose that particular brand in this last buying cycle, I also did not dismiss the brand as a 'bad' snowblower at all, I merely choose what I believe (or is that hope?  ) will work best for me with my own personal needs and wants. Mostly that is based on ease of use, which I would define as the machine's ability to do work for me without having me work to use the machine. Everything else comes in second in my list of wants. In fact, I even considered a tractor- mounted snowblower again because I am of the belief that they will be easier to use (not including setup or maintenance time). 

And I find your comments about the separate choke lever, along with mounting it on the dash instead of the engine to be both amusing and quite interesting because I personally thought exactly the opposite; I also have an earlier Honda 928 that has the choke integrated with the throttle and do not care for that method because it is difficult to be sure the throttle is 100% open and the choke is also 100% open with that method. Splitting the controls was a great idea IMO. And I also like the engine controls on the operator's panel, where the operator is while you would prefer them on the engine, which is certainly a simpler design. I am not tossing rocks at you here, just pointing out the difference is personal opinion as well as perception; what you see as disadvantages are advantages to me. Mostly a matter of personal preference though I would agree that removing the cable and remote control for the choke would always make any machine more robust and therefore perhaps better in absolute performance, though I am happy to take on the risk of the cable for convenience. Again, just two different views and always interesting to me to hear other people's views on things like this.

Brian



Steve70 said:


> Honda has been making snowblowers for many decades now. Japan is no stranger to heavy snow conditions. Looks like about 50K units per year are built for here, Japan, and the rest of the world with snow. They get no slack from me for putting a chute on the street that has a propensity to clog. As I said above (or somewhere), that's snowblowing 101...not something you expect from Honda. Nor the PEZ candy breakage on the auger bolts. Most snow coming in March and April (sometimes May) is heavy and wet. Given the seasons, I would guess a good 30% of all snowfall is heavy and wet. Looks like much of the HSS design may have occurred in NC where any snow will be heavy and wet.
> 
> https://globenewswire.com/news-rele...Honda-Introduces-HSS-Series-Snow-Blowers.html
> 
> ...


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Steve70 said:


> Good info again Brian.
> 
> I guess I don't understand the auger / impeller reasoning yet. If these closer tolerances were done for snow moving efficiency, why does the 28 Ariens move 22 more tons per hour than the 28 Honda? There's really no comparison between the two in that area. I've also never experienced any snow build up behind the augers or clogging for that matter. In heavy wet spring snow, I have seen the augers themselves build up with snow, but that has nothing to do with tolerances.
> 
> As regards the chute, you're being much too kind. There's simply no excuse for a mistake like that to hit the pavement from a company renowned for its engineering prowess.



Because it has 50% more power
23 tall bucket
14 inch impeller
you cant even compare a hss928 to 28 pro in performance its a slaughter for the king of snow


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

LDRider said:


> As I said, absolutely nothing wrong with an Ariens or some other brands, and they will most certainly have advantages over other brands, Honda included. We are just discussing this without the need to justify or especially defend any decisions or thoughts here. I personally am a big fan of Ariens products over the years and while I did not choose that particular brand in this last buying cycle, I also did not dismiss the brand as a 'bad' snowblower at all, I merely choose what I believe (or is that hope?  ) will work best for me with my own personal needs and wants. Mostly that is based on ease of use, which I would define as the machine's ability to do work for me without having me work to use the machine. Everything else comes in second in my list of wants. In fact, I even considered a tractor- mounted snowblower again because I am of the belief that they will be easier to use (not including setup or maintenance time).
> 
> And I find your comments about the separate choke lever, along with mounting it on the dash instead of the engine to be both amusing and quite interesting because I personally thought exactly the opposite; I also have an earlier Honda 928 that has the choke integrated with the throttle and do not care for that method because it is difficult to be sure the throttle is 100% open and the choke is also 100% open with that method. Splitting the controls was a great idea IMO. And I also like the engine controls on the operator's panel, where the operator is while you would prefer them on the engine, which is certainly a simpler design. I am not tossing rocks at you here, just pointing out the difference is personal opinion as well as perception; what you see as disadvantages are advantages to me. Mostly a matter of personal preference though I would agree that removing the cable and remote control for the choke would always make any machine more robust and therefore perhaps better in absolute performance, though I am happy to take on the risk of the cable for convenience. Again, just two different views and always interesting to me to hear other people's views on things like this.
> 
> Brian


I completely agree about brand preference. To each his own according to the work that needs to be done. Ease of use is a great factor to consider for purchase. ...but 28 to 28 it's really not possible to say that the Ariens is not a more robust machine based on statistical evidence

As for the choke: I don't follow your train of thought. I've never owned a snowblower that the throttle and choke weren't separate. This new one is no different. The choke linkage is minimal, on top of the engine, can't freeze due to engine heat, and is totally separate from the throttle. I have no reason to believe it controls anything but the choke butterfly. 

The Honda choke, by design, would tend to gravity feed moisture into the linkage...especially if the machine sat outside. I'm not throwing rocks either, You seem to be a very mechanical well thought out guy. I don't understand how you think this is a good thing? I see no advantage to the controls on the operator panel if having to introduce a long cable and potential freeze up point. My choke is directly in front of me when I give er the one pull start. I go from releasing the rope to immediately knocking the choke down

Not everything that's called innovation is necessarily better. New thinking is always good, as long as simple but effective are employed in the design. In my time, I've seen many things over engineered by people with little real world experience


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## LDRider (Jan 24, 2018)

The earlier Honda snowblowers, along with a lot of other OPE, including my lawn tractor, have integrated throttle / choke on one control. Lever all the way down or back is idle. Pushed to the detent is full throttle, no choke. Pushed all the way forward or up is full throttle, full choke. The problem with this system is that it can be sensitive to find the detent, and both devices (throttle and choke) must be adjusted so that they work correctly. Given this, I prefer a separate choke control so that I do not have to feel for the detent. Plus it allows the choke to be used with the throttle set at any point- I personally prefer not to start a cold engine on full throttle. 

Yes, it is possible for the choke cable to corrode but I have never seen it happen on any OPE. My own opinion is that I will take that risk for the convenience of having all the engine controls on the dash or control panel. The Honda is started from the control panel (electric start) so that is where I prefer the controls, plus it allows an easy glance down now and again to verify that all controls / levers are where they should be while using the machine. 

What we are discussing is personal preference, not really whether something is quantifiably better or not. I would not call these types of changes innovative but instead simply a method of doing the task. So as an opinion, yours is the right choice for you but not necessarily anything that can be given any particular place on a scale of 'goodness'. 

But again, you should be well- served with that Ariens and it sounds like you made a great choice. I am not sure yet whether I have made an equally great choice for myself and will need a few uses before I can really form an opinion about the machine, at least the machine as it is used. If it does not work out, I too may end up with an Ariens or a Toro myself.

Brian



Steve70 said:


> I completely agree about brand preference. To each his own according to the work that needs to be done. Ease of use is a great factor to consider for purchase. ...but 28 to 28 it's really not possible to say that the Ariens is not a more robust machine based on statistical evidence
> 
> As for the choke: I don't follow your train of thought. I've never owned a snowblower that the throttle and choke weren't separate. This new one is no different. The choke linkage is minimal, on top of the engine, can't freeze due to engine heat, and is totally separate from the throttle. I have no reason to believe it controls anything but the choke butterfly.
> 
> ...


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

I start my lct 414cc on idle cold and can set the choke as i please starts 1/2 a pull


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

LDRider said:


> Excellent points and observations IMO.
> 
> As to down-force, while I cannot give you a specific number, it is 'a lot' because if you set it to the lowest position and try to lift the auger housing you will find there is perhaps 1/3 of the snowblower's weight on the skids, which is a tremendous amount- at a WAG, perhaps 100 lbs. or so on the 1332.
> 
> Brian


I remembered we had a 50 pound luggage weigher thing last night. I grabbed the bucket housing lip in the center of the housing

The wheeled position took 25# of force to lift the front end
Regular track position was around 100# (hard to hold it steady)
Dig position was about the same which surprised me until I thought about it more. In either position you're picking up the front end with the back bogeys as the fulcrum.

However; there's a fair amount of difference on the handlebar end. In regular track position you can lift the front end with some difficulty, but dig is a fair bit harder with the front of the front wheels basically elevated a 1/2" or so above the ground. I'm 200 pounds and have to put my full weight on it to lift. Nothing you'd ever be able to hold without getting high enough to cross the balance point.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

No, I didn't read all the suggestions just jumped to the last. When I looked for a machine last spring I wanted a machine with big gonads and electric start. Also in consideration was to find a machine made with heavy grade sheet metal. 

Now I am looking to put my Ariens 28 Pro with a 420cc engine to work this winter. Unless one has small amounts of both expected snow along with areas to get cleared, go big ........ huge if available!


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## CarbineMan (Jan 8, 2018)

andersi said:


> Since you have both a Ariens and Honda how do you find the two compare when it comes to things like traction and power? Does one tend to slip traction more than the other? How do they compare for EOD cleanup?


The Honda tracks work well but are locked together in that model so harder to maneuver despite being smaller and lighter. The HSS addressed that. Really sick and tired of replacing shear pins.

The Ariens also has great traction and much higher capacity. The Auto Turn feature is genius.


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