# Toro CCR 3650 issues



## 19accord98 (Nov 11, 2014)

Hi all,
I have a Toro 3650 from 2001 with a model number of 38440. I bought it for $25 from a guy who said it ran great but needs some work.

I went ahead and replaced the primer bulb, fuel tank, fuel filter, pull start assembly, and the plug. Admittedly I gapped the E3 plug a bit too wide and could never get it to start so I ended up taking the carb off twice and fully cleaning everything and put it all back correctly. Then, I then made the gap smaller on the plug and it started right up.

After it warms up it runs great and has plenty of power but when I was using it yesterday I let it warm up as I shoveled off the sidewalk and porch and it died. It took over 40 pulls and 15 minutes of letting it sit/trying to start it before it would start. I could get it to start but it would die right after. Eventually, I got it running and finished the driveway with no other issues. But, everytime I go to restart the snowblower after using it for a bit it takes many many many pulls to get it restarted.

I used/mix an oil that said it works with nearly any oil/gas ratio and I added a bit more just to be on the safe side. It doesn't smoke very much at all when running so it doesn't seem to be running rich.

Could that be my issue? My next step was going to be replacing the coil and getting a new plug and not adjusting the gap. In addition, today I am going to use some Stihl 2 stroke oil and add 2 ounces of B12 Chemtool to the gallon of gas which is what it says on the instructions for 2 stroke motors.

Im beyond tired of taking this thing apart over and over and just wanted to see if you guys had any suggestions as to what the issue could be. Or, if it simply may be that the fuel mixture has too much oil in it. My back is killing me today from trying to start it yesterday.

Thanks!!!!


----------



## time2time (Jan 8, 2015)

I am wondering if it is ignition (also thinking coil). An in-line plug tester should show if you are getting spark. Have you tried starting fluid? That might also help to isolate to either fuel or ignition.


----------



## 19accord98 (Nov 11, 2014)

rhenning said:


> Get rid of the E-3 spark plug and replace it with an NGK or Champion of the correct number. Roger


Before I bought the plug, I read great reviews about them online with people experiencing better performance from the E3's. Do you know if people truly have had decreased performance or problems using them in snowblowers? If so, I will go ahead and pickup and Champion plug tonight.



time2time said:


> I am wondering if it is ignition (also thinking coil). An in-line plug tester should show if you are getting spark. Have you tried starting fluid? That might also help to isolate to either fuel or ignition.


I did test the spark by using a new spark plug for a car and grounding it to the chassis. There was definitely a spark though it didn't look too strong. however, that may have been because it was the incorrect plug.




When I get home, I will replace the plug with a Champion, dump out most of the old fuel, and fill it with the correct mixture of oil/gas using Stihl 2 stroke oil and a couple ounces of the B12 Chemtool. 

Has anyone here replaced the coil before? Replacing the pull starter assembly was a royal pain in the butt and I have no desire to do that again....I am wondering if the coil is easier?

Thanks!


----------



## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Are you able to start the engine when it is cold and then it dies out after running for awhile??
As suggested, immediately check for spark after it has died. If you have spark, the ignition system is good and you could try adding a teaspoon of gas into the cylinder and see if it will restart immediately. If it starts, you have a fuel delivery problem with either the carb or fuel line. Try loosening the gas cap after it dies and see if the engine will restart, it may be a dirty vent in the cap stopping gas flow.
If you have no spark when it dies, it could POSSIBLY be a bad coil or ignition switch. Pull the wire(s) off the ignition switch and check for spark to eliminate the switch as a problem. If the coil is bad, you will have to remove the recoil assembly to access it. This manual may help you.

Toro Single Stage Snow Blower Manual


----------



## time2time (Jan 8, 2015)

I never replaced a coil, but I did see something (pretty sure it was on youtube) that covered it pretty well- you may want to do some searching there. Looked like a fair amount of disassembly, though none of it seemed particularly difficult (from the vid at least..)


----------



## 19accord98 (Nov 11, 2014)

Grunt said:


> Are you able to start the engine when it is cold and then it dies out after running for awhile??
> As suggested, immediately check for spark after it has died. If you have spark, the ignition system is good and you could try adding a teaspoon of gas into the cylinder and see if it will restart immediately. If it starts, you have a fuel delivery problem with either the carb or fuel line. Try loosening the gas cap after it dies and see if the engine will restart, it may be a dirty vent in the cap stopping gas flow.
> If you have no spark when it dies, it could POSSIBLY be a bad coil or ignition switch. Pull the wire(s) off the ignition switch and check for spark to eliminate the switch as a problem. If the coil is bad, you will have to remove the recoil assembly to access it. This manual may help you.
> 
> Toro Single Stage Snow Blower Manual


When the unit is cold, I prime it 10-12 times and it generally will start up within 3 pulls. From there, I have to play with the choke a bit until it warms up. If I try moving snow immediately it doesn't have much power so after it warms up for a few minutes it runs like a champ and tosses the snow pretty far. Sometimes after it is warmed up and I let it idle while shoveling it will rev up very very high and then go back down to its normal rpm. I never turn it off when doing other tasks to avoid the hassle of trying to get the thing to restart.

I will clean the gas cap tonight as well when I go home. The carb shouldn't be clogged as I cleaned out all the jets and let it soak in B12 Chemtool overnight (I did take out the float to prevent damage). After that I verified all the jets were unclogged.

I have thought about trying starting spray or putting in some fuel in the cylinder but that requires me to dissasemble the control panel in order to gain access to the plug and remove it.



time2time said:


> I never replaced a coil, but I did see something (pretty sure it was on youtube) that covered it pretty well- you may want to do some searching there. Looked like a fair amount of disassembly, though none of it seemed particularly difficult (from the vid at least..)


When I did the recoil I was thinking it would have to come off to get that replaced but I was hoping I would hear diffeently on here!


----------



## bkwudz (Jan 14, 2013)

if it has the plastic carb, chuck it and get a metal replacement.

But first check the compression, to me it sounds like bad compression, I had a couple of powerlites with low compression, that would start right when cold, and not restart when warmed up and loose.


----------



## 19accord98 (Nov 11, 2014)

It does have the plastic carb. But the metal ones are $100 and I want to start with the small easy fixes before dumping more money into it if it isn't going to be worth it.

Yesterday I got rid of the old fuel mix and picked up some RedArmor 2 stroke oil and mixed it properly with 93 octance fuel. I added one ounce of B12 Chemtool to the gallon mix. I tried starting it yesterday but it wouldn't stay running and quite a bit of white smoke was coming from it. I am assuming the detergents in the oil and B12 are cleaning all the gunk out of it. So, I stopped trying to start it and figured ill let it sit until today and try to get it running again. If that doesn't work ill install the Champion plug and go from there.


----------



## bkwudz (Jan 14, 2013)

theses are pretty simple machines. I would check compression, if compression is good, then that POS plastic carb is your problem.

I have done 2, one on my 3650, and just did one this week on my 2450. Difference is night and day. It runs like new. yes $100 hurts, but not when its running like it should when you need it, starts first pull


----------



## 19accord98 (Nov 11, 2014)

What/how did you check compression?

I've never really worked on small engines before so all of this is new to me. However, my hobby is working on cars so I am somewhat mechanically inclined. Just converted my Honda from an automatic to a manual in addtion to everything else ive done to it!

I guess my question for you snowblower experts would be, what do you think the average life of this machine would be?

I am pretty tight with money and dont think it is wise to dump more money or time into this machine if its only going to last a couple of years and cause more issues instead of just spending $400 on a brand new one. Any input would be great! 

I bought a John Deere TRS 21 for $90 at the same time as this Toro and gave it to my father in law for free since it had electric start. That thing is from 1991 and starts on the first pull and runs like a beast! I am somewhat regretting that decision!


----------



## 19accord98 (Nov 11, 2014)

So today I went ahead and got a new plug. Autolite Xtreme or whatever it was since it was on clearance. Put the thing in and she fired right up! I let it warm up for awhile, turned it off, and it would start right up again on the first pull.

Not sure if the E3 plug was going bad or what but it wasn't very dirty or oddly colored. Thanks for all the suggestions everyone!


----------



## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i'll tell you a secret .... e3 plugs are not that good!! are you still having to prime your 3650 10+ times to get it started? if so check the primer line and make sure its good. if I prime my 2450 or 3650 10+ times its flooded


----------



## 19accord98 (Nov 11, 2014)

detdrbuzzard said:


> i'll tell you a secret .... e3 plugs are not that good!! are you still having to prime your 3650 10+ times to get it started? if so check the primer line and make sure its good. if I prime my 2450 or 3650 10+ times its flooded


I know that now!

When I had the machine apart I didn't see any obvious signs of tears or failures in the line. I'll have to try priming it just a few times and seeing if it'll start then.


----------



## pweerc (May 4, 2014)

Hello,
I liked the idea of the e3 plug but upon further investigation I found very LITTLE support from many different forums. Seems they do not perform well. They have 3 capacitors inside the plug that if I understand, are supposed to put out a sort of ''plasma'' type of arc? Probably like the China nicad batteries they put in craftsman cordless drills. They are great out of the gate,but not much on longevity. I just use a small strip of super fine emery cut to fit around the protruding electrode and under the arm and never buy new. They clean up as new.


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

Check your exhaust port for carbon buildup. It's easy, take the muffler off and if its got blockage clean it with something softer than metal, like paint stick or plastic. Make sure your muffler isnt blocked as well. Keep us posted


----------

