# Broke bolt off end of auger . arggggg.



## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Has anybody ever broke the bolt off at the end of the auger assembly that attaches to auger housing?

it broke flush off so cant get a grip. I have tried almost everything to get it out. Tried drilling hole to put easy out in. tried hitting it at side to try moving what is left of bolt. no go.

soaked it with blaster overnight and still nothing. haven't tried heat yet as I do not have a torch.

watched you tube videos for ideas. this bolt was pretty rusty . 

I just thought this was going to be an hour job switching an auger assembly to another blower. 

any suggestions would be great.

i can post a picture of the mess if that would help. the broken bolt is slightly recessed in the hole.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Post a pic or a few, to see which one it is...


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

hsblowersfan said:


> Post a pic or a few, to see which one it is...



ok here . the left one is normal. the right has the broken off bolt. it is a 8mm bolt from an 828 auger.

you can see where i tried to drill. i tried to get it centered but no luck with that either. my drill bits are not making any headway and i don't have any diamond bits.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I don't like easy outs, they are too brittle and break plus you can't get a good grip. I own a set of screw and bolt extractors from Snap-On. They are short and strong and use a wrench or ratchet and socket.

Buy Mapp gas, you need it to remove the broken bolt.

And of course, drill out and tap.

Sorry I don't have more, there isn't much.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

orangputeh said:


> ok here . the left one is normal. the right has the broken off bolt. it is a 8mm bolt from an 828 auger.
> 
> you can see where i tried to drill. i tried to get it centered but no luck with that either. my drill bits are not making any headway and i don't have any diamond bits.


In my opinion, the best solution to it would be to drill it out and clean the threads (you need a good center punch, to make a good starting point, then use a very small drill bit to do your pilot hole, then enlarge it to about 1/4" progressively). You have to be very precise here (in the very center and straight with the shaft), as you can mess it all up otherwise......
Unless the bolt has been already been heated, it should not be too bad to drill (assuming the drill bits are nice and sharp).
The other option if you have a welder is to try to weld a nut to the remains of the broken bolt, give it a few taps and try to remove it with careful back and forth movements..... If you do welding and it did not work, it'll likely become harder to drill after that.....


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Ugh, that sucks, sorry  I've had some rusted, broken bolts on my current blower, they were a big PITA. EVERYTHING then got anti-seize when I reinstalled fasteners. While cursing the factory for not applying anti-seize when it was built :icon-rolleyes:

I haven't yet seen someone suggest left-handed drill bits. Those are an option, combined with the other suggestions. Like center-punching first to give the drill a place to center itself. And using center drills to get started after that: 
Center Drill Countersink Set 5 Pc

Center drills are short and stubby. You can lean on them to get started making a hole, and they won't try to bend sideways like a normal drill. Start with a very-small hole, that way the drill bit will be less-likely to walk around as it gets started. Then work your way up. 

Left-hand drills, if you're really lucky, might catch enough to help the broken bolt come free. 

With any drill, you can slowly go up in size, until you approach the tap-drill diameter for the threaded hole. This can help relax the pressure on the fastener. Eventually, you get to the point that there's really nothing left of the original bolt, and its threads should be able to be pulled out. But this relies on you drilling at the center of the bolt, and drilling straight. 

I bought a set of Grabit Pros, when I was working with my broken bolts. Some people have had luck with them. They didn't do any magic for me, but who knows. Each one is a left-handed drill bit to make the pilot hole, then a left-hand-threaded tapered cutter, to try and grab the bolt and back it out: 
https://www.amazon.com/Alden-8440P-Grabit-Damaged-Extractor/dp/B001A4CWHO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487553507&sr=8-1

I also tried the welder trick with my MIG welder. It worked some for me, but not a lot. Some probably due to poor technique on my part, and maybe partially because my bolts were somewhat small. But the lack of skill was probably my biggest problem. 

You can use something like a Dremel to help make a flatter surface for yourself, if needed, before center-punching. In a pinch, you can also use a narrow grinding stone on the Dremel to help gradually open up a hole in the middle of the bolt. 

As has been mentioned, if you break off an EasyOut, or any other hardened extractor (like the GrabIt), you have a whole other problem on your hands. Then you need to go to extremely-hard drill bits (like cobalt, I think), and hope for the best. Or take it to a machine shop. 

I used Kroil penetrating oil to help try and loosen the threads. Some people like PB Blaster (which I have also tried), some people like acetone + ATF fluid (I've tried that too). A torch can help, if available. 

Be patient. Let the penetrating oil soak in for a while. Drill straight. Try not to break a drill bit (said from experience). Worst-case, if it came to that, you could probably drill it out to a bigger size, and use a HeliCoil to give you a new set of threads in the original size. Good luck!


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## snowflitesly (May 5, 2016)

like mentioned above, get in touch with a welder and weld a nut to the end of the broken part and then ratchet it out, no other choice, don't try and drill it out because from the looks of it your off center and by the time the hole is big enough to try and pull the left over threads you'll hit your inner threads and will risk damaging these threads and the shaft could become worthless.


Don't cheap out, get someone who has the proper tools to get it out without damaging the inner threads in the shaft. Pay if you must, or you will pay for a new shaft, besides, your there already, so there.


100 % of times being stuck in this same situation, I use a mig and weld a nut to the broken end and get the sucker out with a ratchet. With the heat dissipating into the shaft (or tapped hole), it helps to break it loose, 100% positive outcome for me.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I've used the MIG technique and it works but you have to be so careful you don't melt the threads. Most times you are welding inside the nut and it is hard not to arc to early inside the nut.


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## snowflitesly (May 5, 2016)

in the case of arc welding the nut and not the broken end, I use a washer. Weld the broken end to the washer (washer needs to be bigger than the nut to be used) and then weld the nut to the washer. Being carful, you will have some meat left on the nut to grab it with a socket and there you go.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

snowflitesly said:


> in the case of arc welding the nut and not the broken end, I use a washer. Weld the broken end to the washer (washer needs to be bigger than the nut to be used) and then weld the nut to the washer. Being carful, you will have some meat left on the nut to grab it with a socket and there you go.


thanks everyone. I am going to use the welding idea. it seems like the best remedy. I'll post back when I try that.


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jan 27, 2017)

snowflitesly said:


> in the case of arc welding the nut and not the broken end, I use a washer. Weld the broken end to the washer (washer needs to be bigger than the nut to be used) and then weld the nut to the washer. Being carful, you will have some meat left on the nut to grab it with a socket and there you go.


That's exactly how we do it at work, thick fender washers work good for this because the have a small centre hole and a large area to weld a nut to. sometimes we have had to weld on and break off the nuts several times before it comes out, but I would say it works about 90% of the time. for the other 10% on a big bolt I cut the bolt out with a die grinder from the inside until I can remove the threads like a big coil, on the smaller bolts I usually centre with a die grinder and over size drill then install a heli-coil. Good luck!


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Orangputah, Are the augers free to come off the shaft? If not, there's no real use beating yourself to death trying to get the bolt remains out. If you can get the augers off, I'd clamp it in a drill press with a good bit and just take your time. I know not everyone has a floor size drill press, but you probably know someone that does.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Tezcatlipoca said:


> That's exactly how we do it at work, thick fender washers work good for this because the have a small centre hole and a large area to weld a nut to. sometimes we have had to weld on and break off the nuts several times before it comes out, but I would say it works about 90% of the time. for the other 10% on a big bolt I cut the bolt out with a die grinder from the inside until I can remove the threads like a big coil, on the smaller bolts I usually centre with a die grinder and over size drill then install a heli-coil. Good luck!


what if the bolt is slightly recessed and you can't weld the washer to the end? do you just weld on top of the bolt up so the weld is higher to weld the washer first?


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## snowflitesly (May 5, 2016)

orangputeh said:


> what if the bolt is slightly recessed and you can't weld the washer to the end? do you just weld on top of the bolt up so the weld is higher to weld the washer first?


 
exactly, build it up as much as u need, then your washer could fit around the newly built nipple 


Its tricky because of the shaft is metal also, be sure not to weld the broken end to the shaft. There is a anti-splatter paste that you could use around the broken end, so you optimized your chances not to weld en together. 


take your time, like Tezcatlipoca mentioned, you might have to go at it a couple times before you get it welded strong enough to screw it out properly. Give it tork out and in motion when getting it out, not a big violent once unscrewing motion.


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## snowflitesly (May 5, 2016)

jtclays said:


> Orangputah, Are the augers free to come off the shaft? If not, there's no real use beating yourself to death trying to get the bolt remains out. If you can get the augers off, I'd clamp it in a drill press with a good bit and just take your time. I know not everyone has a floor size drill press, but you probably know someone that does.


there was an attempt at doing this but unfortunately, from the pics provided, the attempt was out of center, which means now all drills will have a tendency to move towards that off center hole. In order to erase this ''error'', you would have to vise this shaft in a vertical mill and proceed with a flat center cutting end mill, then redrill a new pilot hole in the center. Like Tezcatlipoca also mentioned, once all methods of retraction failed, this would be the way to go, redrill over size and helicoil it to accept the original size bolt. Helicoil kits are expensive, in my area, they are only sold in kits with the drill bit, helicoil inserts and inserting tool. I assume this is a 5/16-18 thread, this kit sells for close to $80 CAD, for true HELICOIL brand name kit.


keep calm and good luck


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

In a vise secured to the drill press table, assuming not excessive run out of the chuck it'll drill straight. The pics indicate to me that was attempted with a hand drill, which will never accomplish the task. Also if the rakes are rusted to the shaft anyway, there's no sense in drilling anything.


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## Newt (Dec 27, 2016)

If you can heat the bolt up cherry red than immediately pore lots of water on it. By doing this it will shock the bolt and most times make it easy to turn out.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

All these ar great suggestions so far and all have worked for me. The task at hand, seems ro be the recessed bolt being drilled off center. At this point, the shaft needs to be ground down flush and square as possible ans level with the remains of the bolt, providing that it is not necessary to remove 1/2" of material. Then attempt to center punch the bolt and a small drill bit starter hole. But Using a fender washer the same size as the bolt and welding a larger nut to the remains of the bolt would be my first choice if a welder is available. As far as extractor sets go, I use the straight serrated type. I got a set from Strap-On, but they are a re-branded RIGID set, available at HD. The advantage being, that they will grab the entire length of the bolt and more importantly, are straight. The tapered style tend to force the broken bolt in tighter to the shaft, as well as only grabbing the very top of the bolt, defeating the purpose. Left Hand bits work very well, only if the bolt has been driven in and NOT bottomed out, just popping off the head of bolt. If the bolt was cross threaded, rusted in place or bottomed out in the hole, they are not as effective. Take your time, deep breaths, plenty of lube and a good plan of attack, and you will be succesful.

GLuck, Jay


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## snowflitesly (May 5, 2016)

Newt said:


> If you can heat the bolt up cherry red than immediately pore lots of water on it. By doing this it will shock the bolt and most times make it easy to turn out.



this method will temper the shaft's metal, you don't want that, you want the metal to cool down slowly, making the shaft red hot is ok but don't abruptly cool it, it will make it brittle, metallurgy 101, my 2 cents.


But, you are right about making the bolt stay cool, you want the threaded hole bigger (heated) and the bolt smaller (cooler) to have minimum interference in relation to one another.


have fun, I make a living doing this type of stuff.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

JayzAuto1 said:


> As far as extractor sets go, I use the straight serrated type. I got a set from Strap-On, but they are a re-branded RIGID set, available at HD. The advantage being, that they will grab the entire length of the bolt and more importantly, are straight.


Do you have a link to the screw extractors? I'm always interested to learn about better options. 

snowflitesly, if the welding method is being used, maybe something could help with the rapid-cooling situation? Weld on the washer & nut, then spray just those with with cold water to try and cool them. I have used a spray bottle, for more control. Spray them to cool the bolt, then try to wiggle and remove the bolt. 

You can also use the liquid sprayed from an inverted can of "canned air", like for blowing out computers. It boils off quickly, and helps cool the item. 

This may help for cooling the bolt quickly, without affecting the shaft too much. As you said, you want to cool the bolt, but leave the shaft hot, to relax their fit.


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jan 27, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> what if the bolt is slightly recessed and you can't weld the washer to the end? do you just weld on top of the bolt up so the weld is higher to weld the washer first?


 Depends on how far recessed it is. if your good with a welder you can build it up first as long as you don't tack the bolt remains to the surrounding metal. From your first post that bolt sounds pretty seized in there, might be easier to skip the extraction and go to drilling it and heli-coil. Flatten the top off with a grinder to get a good centre punch mark, start with a small pilot bit then drill to the size you need for heli-coil. You will need a good set of bits for this. If your set is good but just dull, you can re-sharpen them on a grinder, but you may want to practice on some cheap ones first.


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jan 27, 2017)

snowflitesly said:


> I assume this is a 5/16-18 thread, this kit sells for close to $80 CAD, for true HELICOIL brand name kit.



$80? I'm pretty sure the last kit I bought for small bolts was half that. Either prices have gone crazy, or your area has a lot of mark up.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Sorry guys, Still having trouble posting pix, but this is a link that shows the kit and part number. 

ROBOT WARNING - at the Test Equipment Depot

I have 4 or 5 of those sets, labelled as Snap-On, but same kit, other than S/O is 50% higher cost. Lifetime warranty on the kei either way. I also put Left handed bits in 2 of those sets, as they come in handy as well. I'll never use any other type of extractor. One word of caution with these (or ANY extractors, for that matter), If heating the bolt to remove it, heat the part, THEN install the extractor...otherwise the heat weakens the flute and it WILL break.

GLuck, Jay


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## snowflitesly (May 5, 2016)

Tezcatlipoca said:


> $80? I'm pretty sure the last kit I bought for small bolts was half that. Either prices have gone crazy, or your area has a lot of mark up.


 
maybe so, i'm from the nation's capital, where all the rich prick lives. loll


I mentioned a price for the brand name HELICOIL,there is of course all the knock off names, but I will stay very far away from any discussion on these kits. 


And I did mentioned close to, soo maybe $60 plus taxes, even then not cheap to repair a shaft worth the same price or even less if you have to know how to make one.


Edit 20 mins later: So, maybe it's been a while I bought my kit, and now only buying inserts, so I browsed the web some and stumbled upon a 5/16-18 HELICOIL (brand) kit at walmart for $30, Amazon and ebay are selling kits around $20, maybe good for a disposable kit, who knows, I bought mine for around $80 in the mid '90s, still using it to this day, so I cannot say anything else other than these last kits I mentioned don't look anything alike the one I bought, although they are from helicoil....


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

JayzAuto1 said:


> Sorry guys, Still having trouble posting pix, but this is a link that shows the kit and part number.
> 
> ROBOT WARNING - at the Test Equipment Depot
> 
> I have 4 or 5 of those sets, labelled as Snap-On, but same kit, other than S/O is 50% higher cost. Lifetime warranty on the kei either way. I also put Left handed bits in 2 of those sets, as they come in handy as well. I'll never use any other type of extractor.


Very interesting, thank you! I don't recall reading about these when wrestling with my fasteners a few years ago. I'll admit that the price tag might have steered me away anyhow, but if I was doing this stuff for a living, then the price would be less of a concern. 

As you mentioned, at least these don't try to expand the fastener as they bite tighter, unlike my GrabIt tapered ones.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Tezcatlipoca said:


> Depends on how far recessed it is. if your good with a welder you can build it up first as long as you don't tack the bolt remains to the surrounding metal. From your first post that bolt sounds pretty seized in there, might be easier to skip the extraction and go to drilling it and heli-coil. Flatten the top off with a grinder to get a good centre punch mark, start with a small pilot bit then drill to the size you need for heli-coil. You will need a good set of bits for this. If your set is good but just dull, you can re-sharpen them on a grinder, but you may want to practice on some cheap ones first.


Thanks everyone.
I was able to use a dremel to start a center starter hole better than the first off center hole i started.

Then used my smallest hardest drill bit and was able to drill all the way thru. Then went to larger size and tried an Irwin extractor. would not budge. even with blaster and heat.

Went to next larger bit and so on until almost to threads. It seems like the remnants of the bolt is welded to the threads.

can I use a tap and retap the remnants of the bolt out ? or should I just tap it out for the original 8mmX1.25 pitch bolt or go the next size up?

what tap size do I use if I just want to clean it out?

or would it be better just to heli-coil it, which is another thing I have never tried.

geeeez. this took hours just to get to this point. learned my lesson on trying to force a bolt out. With the end of the bolt having a flange I don't know how I could have used penetrating oil but I could have used heat.

6.8mm tap? or go next size up?


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I've retapped threads before with success. If it turns out wrong then oversize it, if too loose consider a red thread lock.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

JLawrence08648 said:


> I've retapped threads before with success. If it turns out wrong then oversize it, if too loose consider a red thread lock.



thanks. I think it is a 6.8mm tap for the original 8mmX1.25 bolt. I will try that first. thread lock tip is a great idea.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

orangputeh said:


> Went to next larger bit and so on until almost to threads. It seems like the remnants of the bolt is welded to the threads.
> 
> can I use a tap and retap the remnants of the bolt out ? or should I just tap it out for the original 8mmX1.25 pitch bolt or go the next size up?
> 
> what tap size do I use if I just want to clean it out?


I'm glad you're at least making headway. The process definitely sucks, I can relate. 

Maybe you can get out the bits of threads with a tap, but I don't think I'd start with that. The tap doesn't really know where to line up, it's possible you could just start cutting new threads, rather than running through the existing threads. And make sure you don't break off the (hardened) tap. 

Are you up to the tap-drill size for the stock threads? Some people have suggested using things like a dental pick to try and coax the thread fragments out. If there is anything left at the top of the bolt, you could try to line up a punch with any edges/bumps, and see if you can tap on the punch, to rotate the bolt CCW. 

As you get close to the tap-drill size, but not quite there yet, that's where I'd try an extractor again, if possible. There's not a lot of meat left to grab, but the bolt may also be able to collapse slightly, and possibly you could get it to move. 

I suppose you could try running a tap down it, worst-case you need to HeliCoil it anyhow. I'd use the tap size for that thread, nothing different. If you get lucky, everything may line up and come out. But if you used a different size tap, I can't see that helping matters. 

Advice I've seen, before trying to remove a probably-stuck bolt, is to give it a good couple of whacks with a hammer, to help break things loose slightly. Give penetrating oil time to soak. And, counter-intuitively, people say to also try tightening it just a hair, and work it back and forth in both directions. Don't *just* try to loosen it. 

I've also heard that repeated blows, like from an impact gun, can help loosen rust. Now that I have air tools, I might try turning down the pressure on my compressor, and letting the impact gun whack away at it gently for a bit, before trying to remove the bolt for real.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

orangputeh said:


> Thanks everyone.
> I was able to use a dremel to start a center starter hole better than the first off center hole i started.
> 
> Then used my smallest hardest drill bit and was able to drill all the way thru. Then went to larger size and tried an Irwin extractor. would not budge. even with blaster and heat.
> ...


To start with badly rusted threads i heat first and cool with pb blaster or kroil penetrating oil, do this several times... the heating & cooling will cause capillary action of the oil to be drawn into the threads. Doesn't always work, but it helps, i also work the bolt / stud in and out to dislodge the rust, usually backs right out. But sometimes it will just break. 
Now that you have it drilled out to the point of seeing original threads.....
You can heat it up with mapp gas inside the bolt hole, the old bolt remnants should get cherry red or close to it, then quickly take a strong pick or small bladed screwdriver and bend / peel away old bolt. Sometimes i get it started that way and grab with needle nose pliers ... pulling and heating as i go and it will come right out. Let cool down and chase original threads with a tap and heavy oil, 1/4 turn and back off... then repeat until you are bottomed out. Remember that there is rust in the hole making threading harder, heavy oil and slow speed will allow you get threaded hole back to normal. A broken tap is EXTREMELY HARD TO REMOVE, take your time and be successful.


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## snowflitesly (May 5, 2016)

orangputeh said:


> thanks. I think it is a 6.8mm tap for the original 8mmX1.25 bolt. I will try that first. thread lock tip is a great idea.


 

yes the drill size to tap a 8mmX1.25mm is 6.8mm drill (this being .2677'') there are other drills like letter H drill (which is .2660'') and drill 17/64'' (wich is .2656'') which are pretty close to what u want.


if you sure about the center, I would go for it, try to pick out the remaining threads, and like JLawrence08648 mentioned, if its too sloppy afterward use locktite on the new bolt. way too sloppy and just go one size bigger if you can (matching all other components used on the auger end bushing assembly) 


Keep at it, your sure are making it happen, patience is a virtue


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

If too loose you can also wrap with Teflon tape, or put aluminum foil in the hole or wrap the bolt with aluminum foil or do both. All will work.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

update.

got it done today. drilled out hole with 7/64 drill bit and then used 8mmx1.25 tap and tapped it out very carefully. put augers back on with new bolt.

took it for a test drive and it seems OK.

thanks everyone.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

That's great, I'm glad it worked out! And hopefully the discussion was also useful to other people. I know I learned from it.


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## snowflitesly (May 5, 2016)

great news!!! 


p.s.: might want to change that 7/64 to 17/64


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