# HS1132 trans gears - BASIC INFO on dismantling - AND Replacing pin in shaft



## GDHobkirk (Dec 27, 2017)

JnC's sticky on this subject is FANTASTIC.
But I am stuck at a VERY early part of dismantling, and I did not notice much about how to get the shafts and gears out before you do the actual repair.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

that main gear stuck? I have used a gear puller.]]

first try to use some penetrating oil in there and let sit overnight.


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## GDHobkirk (Dec 27, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> that main gear stuck? I have used a gear puller.]]
> 
> first try to use some penetrating oil in there and let sit overnight.


Soaked with PB Blaster, but no change. The drive shaft was stuck in the case and the gear would only move 6".. 

My puller was an inch too short. 
Set in big vise to act as platform for case so I could pound down on shaft. 
Did same thing with gear. 
Took to my friend the car mechanic. He did both the same thing, but using a pickle fork to hold the gear more gently. It took us almost 30 minutes. 
*That was stuck! *And yet it had been taken apart 35 months ago by JcN!
Boats.net is back-logged. They don't know when they will ship. 35 months ago, we replaced 7 bearings, 2 bushings, and one seal. The blower probably only has been used 30 hours since then. And I expect I can find a suitable bearing tomorrow if anything feels gritty as I put it together.*So no new parts (mostly)!*

I am going the route Donyboy proposed on YouTube, replacing the sheared pin (he used a steel "dowel."). 
The original pin would not drive out, and the surface of the hole was slightly distorted. 
So I drilled a new hole in the other end of the shaft, 5.75" from the end. Made the hole 1/4" (original 6mm is about 0.236) since the best "pin" I could find was SAE.
I got a Grade 8 bolt (1/4" x 3, unthreaded for 1.5"), cut off the heads and threads, rounded both ends on the grinder, and forced into the new hole. 

And I plan to reassemble using Permatex Ultra Gray make-a-gasket.
And smear the Permatex around the edge of the input shaft and the drive shaft to try and slow down water penetration.
*Does anybody see any red flags or have comments?* I plan on putting this together tomorrow and I will add notes about what happens. 
































And I think there was a washer under the output gear, but I might add a thicker one - it does not seem that the gear should have scraped the inside enough to leave grooves.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

wow , what a mess for perhaps 3 years and 30 hours.. water penetration? maybe cut down by filling whole case with grease? I install grease zerk and fill with grease all the way.

interesting with grade 8 bolt.I just bought a pack of 10 steel pins recommended by JnC so I can do these without having to buy new axles with pins all the time. Someone else did the same thing and drilled new hole in axle on opposite end.. Not sure if here or somewhere else.

good luck. hope it all turns out okay.I know how much work this is. I actually have several rebuilt cases on their side covers ready to go on shelf for an emergency.


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## GDHobkirk (Dec 27, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> wow , what a mess for perhaps 3 years and 30 hours.. water penetration? maybe cut down by filling whole case with grease? I install grease zerk and fill with grease all the way.
> 
> interesting with grade 8 bolt.I just bought a pack of 10 steel pins recommended by JnC so I can do these without having to buy new axles with pins all the time. Someone else did the same thing and drilled new hole in axle on opposite end.. Not sure if here or somewhere else.
> 
> good luck. hope it all turns out okay.I know how much work this is. I actually have several rebuilt cases on their side covers ready to go on shelf for an emergency.


JnC did not use the Permatex sealing around the input shaft that he now recommends. When we rebuilt it, several bearings had so much play that shafts wobbled and water penetration would have been easy. I did not observe obvious points of penetration, but I had not learned enough to know I should be searching.

Everything was lathered with Mobile 1 grease, and he did fit a Zerk fitting, although I've never used it.
*When should that be done? Pump in how much grease? What grease to use? *

I missed the post about steel pins. *Where did you get them?*
And, can you direct me to* pictures of your snowblower*? The black reminds me of a pirate ship...
*Thanks*


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

I left you a voicemail a couple of days ago. 

I dont buy new shafts any more, only gears if they need to be replaced. 

Seems like your gearbox is getting a lot of moisture/dirt in it due to usage. Once the gearbox is put back together and in the chassis i.e. the input shaft has been put through its corresponding hole as well, lather up the RTV around and in the cavity between the inputshaft and gearbox along with the driveshaft and its hole. This is not going to create a perfect seal but will help out a lot. 

I have reused multiple drive shafts over the years with this method of drilling out a new hole on the other side and using a new pin so you should be fine, as long as its equidistant from the edge as the original on the other side.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

@GDHobkirk check your alerts. I private messaged you and need some advice. click your picture in top right corner to see alerts.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

JnC said:


> I left you a voicemail a couple of days ago.
> 
> I dont buy new shafts any more, only gears if they need to be replaced.
> 
> ...


ya.that gearbox does look 20-25 years old .......not 3. 

that dust seal is worthless.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

I am perplexed at the condition of the gears and the amount of dirt in the gearcase. I remember OPs driveway or service area being unpaved at a few spots but that still shouldnt warrant this much dirt getting inside the gearcase.


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## GDHobkirk (Dec 27, 2017)

JnC said:


> I left you a voicemail a couple of days ago.
> 
> I dont buy new shafts any more, only gears if they need to be replaced.
> 
> ...


*Sorry I missed the voice mail. Thank you for contacting me.*

35 months ago you replaced 7 bearings (a 6202 + 6 6004UU), bushings for countershaft & final shaft, and a dust seal. The drive shaft and pin were not replaced.
Now the driveshaft pin has sheared. Ordering from Boats.net seemed like it would take too long, so - unless I get contrary advice - I am doing this without new parts. 
But

*Do you thing a 1/4" Grade 8 bolt (shank portion with no threads) is sufficient for the pin? *
If the *bearings *have no play and feel smooth, I plan to reuse them. *Seem OK?* Or find replacements. All the bearings have only been used for 3 years, about 2 hours per snowstorm (I do not track how many).
Since the original *gasket *is gone, I plan to rely on Permatex Ultra Grey Gasket Maker.* Seem OK?* 
I had planned to work on this today (Wed), but I now realize there is no rush. So* I ordered a workshop manual*. $45 that should arrive tomorrow (Thursday). And so today will just be checking the bearings, cleaning and organizing.

*THANKS*


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

those pins are 7X35mm. called dowell pins bearing steel GB119

from ebay seller regan0331

got a10packfor about 8bucks and change.

i have no idea if a grade 8 bolt cut down is okay.sure would have to do this job twice.


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## GDHobkirk (Dec 27, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> those pins are 7X35mm. called dowell pins bearing steel GB119 < > from ebay seller regan0331 < > got a10packfor about 8bucks and change.
> 
> i have no idea if a grade 8 bolt cut down is okay*.sure would hate to do this job twice.*


I think "oranputeh" must stand for "aggravating white man"! 
McMaster has dowel pins with a Rockwell Hardness rating of C60. Grade 8 bolts are around 36. My local Ace Hardware has some pins, but the hardness is not listed (nor does Hillman, the supplier). ARGH! 

I will call McMaster and a couple machine shops tomorrow morning.McM don't show the dowel at any of the stores, but I don't think that feature was working correctly. 
The eBay sellers are in China.
Now I am using my drill with a wire brush to clean off some rust. Tomorrow I will hit it with some paint. 
*Thanks*


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

GDHobkirk said:


> I think "oranputeh" must stand for "aggravating white man"!
> McMaster has dowel pins with a Rockwell Hardness rating of C60. Grade 8 bolts are around 36. My local Ace Hardware has some pins, but the hardness is not listed (nor does Hillman, the supplier). ARGH!
> 
> I will call McMaster and a couple machine shops tomorrow morning.McM don't show the dowel at any of the stores, but I don't think that feature was working correctly.
> ...


aggravating????? I;m just trying to help. ( now i'll go to bed crying  ) .

JnC recommended those pins. thats why I got them. i wanted to ask you what drill bit do you use to drill that axle? I know the size. wanna know brand bit. I have drill hog pro and KN Kut. Just wondering if there is something else i should try.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

GDHobkirk said:


> I think "oranputeh" must stand for "aggravating white man"!


But we still love him...


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

tabora said:


> But we still love him...


he's gonna have to really kiss up if he ever wants my help again.

Sicilians have a loooooong memory.


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## GDHobkirk (Dec 27, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> aggravating????? I;m just trying to help. ( now i'll go to bed crying  ) .
> 
> JnC recommended those pins. thats why I got them. i wanted to ask you what drill bit do you use to drill that axle? I know the size. wanna know brand bit. I have drill hog pro and KN Kut. Just wondering if there is something else i should try.


I have one complete set (29 sizes) that I bought many years ago - it's Blue Point. The label does not have any further description. And I have over 100 random bits that I just grab whatever is about the right size and use it - if it doesn't cut, I trash it. When I want a precise size, I use the a drill from the BP set. I thought the axle would be hard to drill, but it was easy - I used 2 random bits that cut fine and followed w/ the BP 1/4". Maybe the axle shaft is easier to cut that the pin if you are drilling that out. 
I will try and contact JnC and see if I can snag one from him. 

You ARE helping me, but you expect some flak from a novice like me, don't you?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

should you possibly be using 00 grease instead? it looks like it is pretty much just like a gear box and the grease that is in it just gets pushed out of the way. with something like 00 grease it would hopefully be fluid enough that it should drop to the bottom when not in use and work its way up to lubricate things as you move.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

crazzywolfie said:


> should you possibly be using 00 grease instead? it looks like it is pretty much just like a gear box and the grease that is in it just gets pushed out of the way. with something like 00 grease it would hopefully be fluid enough that it should drop to the bottom when not in use and work its way up to lubricate things as you move.


these gearboxes are like old Harleys. They leak .


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

orangputeh said:


> these gearboxes are like old Harleys. They leak .


that is why i was thinking the 00 grease would be a better fit than something like gear oil. the 00 grease is still usually thick enough that you shouldn't have it leak out but thin enough that it should still hopefully move around. from the pics that are posted it looks like the grease that was in the gear box is really not doing anything.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

crazzywolfie said:


> that is why i was thinking the 00 grease would be a better fit than something like gear oil. the 00 grease is still usually thick enough that you shouldn't have it leak out but thin enough that it should still hopefully move around. from the pics that are posted it looks like the grease that was in the gear box is really not doing anything.


the auger gearbox has gear oil ,not this final drive gearbox or the right side transmission gearbox as some call it.the problem is water contamination from the 2 shaft openings,not from the box gasket.

Honda installed a "dust cover" for the axle at the side engine bed that NEVER stays put. and the other end the drive shaft from the hydrostatic tranny is a little better.

I install a grease zerk on box cover. when I rebuild one of these I slather grease around bearings , gears etc.,put the box together , make sure it works smoothly and then pump it full of grease.until grease comes out actually from those 2 openings.

I havent tried the gasket glue fix that JnC recommended yet but I'm sure that could help. I have only been rebuilding these gearboxes for about a year and a half and havent had the necessity ( yet ) to open up one of them ( hope I dont ) to see howit is doing inside. 

I just recommend pumping in new grease every fall like donyboy73 recommends in his you-tube video. 

Honda factory uses a special grease that has been spoken about here before. Every gearbox that I have opened up is usually an early model 928 or n 828 so that makes them about 15-28 years old and the grease is all caked up dried and hugging the inside of the gearbox and little is on the gears.

Usually it looks like the pictures here. all brown and a lot of water evidence. so I have been using a different grease. Marine red but not sure if that will be better in the longterm.


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## GDHobkirk (Dec 27, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> QUOTE EDITED BY OP (DOUG):
> 
> the problem is water contamination from the 2 shaft openings,not from the box gasket.
> Honda installed a "dust cover" for the axle at the side engine bed that NEVER stays put. and the other end the drive shaft from the hydrostatic tranny is a little better.
> ...


*THANK YOU*, oragputeh. This post in incredibly informative, as most the others have been . 
And *THANK YOU, JnC*, for your contributions to this forum to educate so many of us on these intricacies. *AND FOR GETTING ME A NEW DOWEL PIN! *See, orangputeh, I actually do listen to you!

*Today it is Christmas, a day I've always celebrated. MERRY CHRISTMAS to those who like me, and HAPPY HOLIDAYS to everyone. *

Today I am painting some of the *black* engine brackets, the track hardware, etc. the bottom of the bucket *red *(primed yesterday), and the track wheels *COPPER!







*


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

what kind of paint did you use on wheels. regular spray paint will wear off the sprockets and ends where the wheels run in the tracks. I have learned that the hard way.

I have used brush paint and did multiple coats and had better luck but over time they also wore off.

This last time I used POR15 ( black ). several coats. very hard finish but pricey at $180 a gallon.only time will tell.

oh.you taped off ends.


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## GDHobkirk (Dec 27, 2017)

I used regular Kryon. I don't expect it to last. I KNOW I AM BEING RIDICULOUS! But I've been spending so much time (working, searching, and contemplating - motorizing the chuter and adding more degrees of turning, lighting, sealing the transmission shafts better, etc.) and one of the YouTube videos showed the stars painted black... Since the wheels were off, it seemed like it would be so easy. Wrong! It took me over two hours. 

*But I will sure enjoy the sight the first time I drive the beast out of my garage. *
PS - Your black beast looks impressive.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

GDHobkirk said:


> I used regular Kryon. I don't expect it to last. I KNOW I AM BEING RIDICULOUS! But I've been spending so much time (working, searching, and contemplating - motorizing the chuter and adding more degrees of turning, lighting, sealing the transmission shafts better, etc.) and one of the YouTube videos showed the stars painted black... Since the wheels were off, it seemed like it would be so easy. Wrong! It took me over two hours.
> 
> *But I will sure enjoy the sight the first time I drive the beast out of my garage. *
> PS - Your black beast looks impressive.


well something i have learned over the years is that there is no such thing as wasted time. you are always learning something. you learn when something doesnt work.you learn when you screw up and have to do something over. you learn when things go right but more so when things go wrong.

I admire people like you that TRY. People who try to do things themselves and learn along the way. You are not the novice you think you are. Taking apart a right side transmission and rebuilding is far from novice class. 

When I look at some of my earlier projects that I built and sold i CRINGE. Thankfully most of the buyers are happy with their Hondas. Only a couple had minor issues that I repaired for free.

Look forward to seeing more pictures and progress of your project here.


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