# HS724



## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

I had an HS724 with a seized motor. Something caused the augers to seize without breaking the shear bolts. I sprayed PB Blaster in the cylinder header, let it sit a couple of days, and it broke loose with a breaker bar. I'm going to change the oil and try to get it running again, but it's not clear what happened with the augers. Any ideas on where to start trouble shooting? Or what could have caused this? I cleared the augers of all materials and still caused the motor to seize, so at this point I'm not sure. Would belts do that? Does it sound like a gear box issue?

Any input is welcomed, I need this machine to tie me over until I can get my back up running.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I'd be very concerned on what caused my motor to seize. Was the oil clean and at the proper level ? It doesn't make sense to me your motor would seize and your auger would seize too.

What were the materials that you needed to clear out of the augers? If the engine will pull over so it's no longer stuck, pull the wire off the spark plug and reach in and see if you can spin the impeller. 


.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> I'd be very concerned on what caused my motor to seize. Was the oil clean and at the proper level ? It doesn't make sense to me your motor would seize and your auger would seize too.
> 
> What were the materials that you needed to clear out of the augers? If the engine will pull over so it's no longer stuck, pull the wire off the spark plug and reach in and see if you can spin the impeller.
> 
> ...


Thanks K4F. So I did change the oil at the beginning of the season, and it appeared to be at the right level. I will be changing it again now that there's a fair bit of PB Blaster in there. So I will be sure to once again make sure the level is correct.

I haven't tested the impeller, so I'll do that now. Previously I just removed snow/ice.

-K


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

Its a common issue for the augers to seize on the auger gearbox output shafts. This happens due to water getting in there and rust seizing the shaft inside the augers. You'd have to take the augers along with the auger transmission out, head the augers and unfreeze them off of the shaft. Check out the following video with more clarification.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

The piston seized due to water somehow getting inside the cylinder. The rings are steel and so is the cylinder sleeve. Best thing to do would be to take out the piston, change the rings, hone the cylinder and put them back in, I have done that in the past with a GX270 motor. I did go up on the ring size as the clearance was out of tolerance after the aggressive honing.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

if you remove the shear pins, the auger should freely turn. if not then rust has caused the augers to seize onto the auger gearbox shafts as Jn C mentioned above.

remove the auger assembly is easy

remove impeller shear pin.
remove 4 bolts on each side of auger housing
pull out auger/impeller assembly.

what I do is spray penetrating oil in each end of augers and let it sit for awhile. then see if you can turn auger ( with shear pins out ). sometimes you need to pry with a 2 by 4. sometimes you need heat in extreme cases.

after you remove the augers you can clean out all the rust and apply some antiseize grease before putting back together. also do the same thing for impeller and the shaft it slips on.

good luck. couple good videos on you tube on removing tough seized on augers.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

Thanks for all the tips. Turns out a small piece of OSB got stuck between the impeller and the auger housing. I must of missed it when I cleared the snow out of the auger. But it was so stuck in there that the auger wouldn't even budge, which would explain why engaging the augers resulted in seizing the motor. I also got the motor free and changed the oil since the cylinder was full of PB Blaster. Started on the first pull. 

I've also removed the augers because they are all seized up. So far, so good.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

orangputeh said:


> if you remove the shear pins, the auger should freely turn. if not then rust has caused the augers to seize onto the auger gearbox shafts as Jn C mentioned above.
> 
> remove the auger assembly is easy
> 
> ...


Orangputeh, any recommendations on grease?


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

JnC said:


> The piston seized due to water somehow getting inside the cylinder. The rings are steel and so is the cylinder sleeve. Best thing to do would be to take out the piston, change the rings, hone the cylinder and put them back in, I have done that in the past with a GX270 motor. I did go up on the ring size as the clearance was out of tolerance after the aggressive honing.


JnC, it seized when I engaged the frozen auger/impeller. Is that still a sign of water in the cylinder? I was planning on keeping this machine, but obviously don't want unload a broken one on someone. How involved is this repair? I can easily clean and rebuild a carb, and have done some other basic maintenance, but I've never honed a cylinder. How involved is that job time wise?


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

JnC said:


> Its a common issue for the augers to seize on the auger gearbox output shafts. This happens due to water getting in there and rust seizing the shaft inside the augers. You'd have to take the augers along with the auger transmission out, head the augers and unfreeze them off of the shaft. Check out the following video with more clarification.


Thanks for this, I did exactly this, just used a torch instead of a welder. Do you recommend that I grease the shaft and augers before reassembling?


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## Joel_Kuszynski (Dec 4, 2020)

klawrencNH said:


> JnC, it seized when I engaged the frozen auger/impeller. Is that still a sign of water in the cylinder? I was planning on keeping this machine, but obviously don't want unload a broken one on someone. How involved is this repair? I can easily clean and rebuild a carb, and have done some other basic maintenance, but I've never honed a cylinder. How involved is that job time wise?


If the impeller was "stuck" with the MDF, and you engaged a healthy motor, you would have broken the shear bolts. If the belts didn't slip and smoke, your engine should have bogged down and stalled, but not necessarily seized. Something is wrong with your engine that is unrelated to your auger issue. 

When, by chance, did these problems start? The seized motor, stuck auger...last season?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

klawrencNH said:


> Orangputeh, any recommendations on grease?


didnt i say antiseize?


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

Someone put SAE 30 in his snow blower instead of 5W-30. I talked him out and saved his engine. You never know. Something is wrong with his engine.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

Joel_Kuszynski said:


> If the impeller was "stuck" with the MDF, and you engaged a healthy motor, you would have broken the shear bolts. If the belts didn't slip and smoke, your engine should have bogged down and stalled, but not necessarily seized. Something is wrong with your engine that is unrelated to your auger issue.
> 
> When, by chance, did these problems start? The seized motor, stuck auger...last season?


The auger is rusted onto the shaft, I'm wondering if maybe that's why the shear pins didn't break? Additionally, I'm thinking the impeller made a few rotations before it became completely bound up by the OSB. There was a lot of slush, so I'm thinking the OSB started to swell from the water, warp, and become further bound up by ice as it spun.

All of this happened in our last storm on Saturday. Prior to this I've never had engine problems with this machine. It's always started first pull, never runs too hard, and had never bogged down before. I bought it used from a dealer three years ago, and for the last three years I've always drained it at the end of the season and put a little oil in the cylinder head. I then start every season with a carb clean and oil change. I also only use ethanol free fuel. But I have no clue what type of life it lived before me. It was in decent condition when I bought it, but far from new. The roughest part was the auger housing and augers. Of course I bought before I learned about how to properly inspect those pieces, so it never occurred to me to check them. I've also only serviced the augers once, so it's likely they were frozen onto the shaft sometime last season well before this storm.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

orangputeh said:


> didnt i say antiseize?


Got it, didn't realize that was a brand/type. I've always maintained my own lawn care equipment, but I'm still pretty new to snowblowers. Prior to this machine I never owned one because I rented a place in the city. Now I'm further north with more snow and way more space to shovel, which is why I picked up a used Honda.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

dman2 said:


> Someone put SAE 30 in his snow blower instead of 5W-30. I talked him out and saved his engine. You never know. Something is wrong with his engine.


It's possible, I bought this machine used from a dealer, and don't know what life it had before me. I've only put in the Honda Power Equipement 5W-30 for the last three years, and it's been great for me during that time. Always starts first pull, never bogs down. Come spring I also run it dry and store with a wee bit of oil on the cylinder head. I got it freed and running again last night, although there was a bit of smoke, I'm guessing from the PB Blaster.


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## Joel_Kuszynski (Dec 4, 2020)

KlawrencNH, how did you pry the motor loose?


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

Joel_Kuszynski said:


> KlawrencNH, how did you pry the motor loose?


I found a few videos on Youtube, but they were all about the same. First I removed the spark plug and sprayed PB Blaster into the cylinder head. I then let it sit for 2 days. After 2 days I removed the pull rope assemble so I could attach a socket directly to the crankshaft, I think it was an 18mm or 19mm. I then used a pry bar to break it loose. It didn't take much, in a few seconds it popped free. Then I spun it a bit to work the PB in there.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

klawrencNH said:


> I found a few videos on Youtube, but they were all about the same. First I removed the spark plug and sprayed PB Blaster into the cylinder head. I then let it sit for 2 days. After 2 days I removed the pull rope assemble so I could attach a socket directly to the crankshaft, I think it was an 18mm or 19mm. I then used a pry bar to break it loose. It didn't take much, in a few seconds it popped free. Then I spun it a bit to work the PB in there.


probably smoke is the PB blaster. a couple engines that I unfroze would smoke for a couple minutes ( rings I think ) until it warmed up and then the smoke would stop. 

i think you said you were gonna change oil which is a very good idea.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

orangputeh said:


> probably smoke is the PB blaster. a couple engines that I unfroze would smoke for a couple minutes ( rings I think ) until it warmed up and then the smoke would stop.
> 
> i think you said you were gonna change oil which is a very good idea.


Good to know, thanks for all the tips Orangputeh. I changed the oil yesterday, and finally wrestled the augers free of the shaft. I'll be reassembling all of that shortly, I'm just waiting on the o rings that go between the shaft and the auger to come in. Then I'll reassemble with grease, and hopefully any future obstructions will just break the shear pins.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

klawrencNH said:


> Good to know, thanks for all the tips Orangputeh. I changed the oil yesterday, and finally wrestled the augers free of the shaft. I'll be reassembling all of that shortly, I'm just waiting on the o rings that go between the shaft and the auger to come in. Then I'll reassemble with grease, and hopefully any future obstructions will just break the shear pins.


didnt know you needed those O rings. you can get a generic at hardware store. i buy them 50 at a time on ebay but i work on a lot of machines.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

klawrencNH said:


> Good to know, thanks for all the tips Orangputeh. I changed the oil yesterday, and finally wrestled the augers free of the shaft. I'll be reassembling all of that shortly, I'm just waiting on the o rings that go between the shaft and the auger to come in. Then I'll reassemble with grease, and hopefully any future obstructions will just break the shear pins.


Did you get this fixed? Another storms is supposed to be here Thursday...


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

2muchsnow said:


> Did you get this fixed? Another storms is supposed to be here Thursday...


Motor is fixed. Jam is removed. I took the augers out, but for the life of me I can't get the second auger off of the shaft. I got 1 off, but the second one isn't going anywhere. I've tried heat, leverage via 2x4's, and now i'm opting for a long PB Blaster soak. But if that doesn't do it I'm at loss.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

orangputeh said:


> didnt know you needed those O rings. you can get a generic at hardware store. i buy them 50 at a time on ebay but i work on a lot of machines.


Thanks for the tip orangputeh, I went and snagged some for very little $$$. They'll come in handy.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

klawrencNH said:


> Motor is fixed. Jam is removed. I took the augers out, but for the life of me I can't get the second auger off of the shaft. I got 1 off, but the second one isn't going anywhere. I've tried heat, leverage via 2x4's, and now i'm opting for a long PB Blaster soak. But if that doesn't do it I'm at loss.


Where about in NH are you? I have a really good tool for getting those off.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

So, what is this magic tool ? Share the trick !


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

RIT333 said:


> So, what is this magic tool ? Share the trick !











16 in. Tie Rod Separator


Amazing deals on this 16In Tie Rod Separator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




www.harborfreight.com





I had a 828 with an auger that would not come lose last year. I tried everything but it wouldn't move at all. I picked up one of those, the prongs are wide enough to fit over the auger shaft and it will basically work like a wedge. Line it up so that the fork ends will be against the solid cross beam part of the auger (I don't know what else to call it?). Once I got it all the way down I took a short piece of 2x4 and put it up against the auger transmission case so it wouldn't damage it. Then gave the top of the tool a wack with a hammer towards the auger transmission case (so it would push the auger off) and the auger popped right off. No damage to the auger or transmission case/ auger shaft, if done correctly it ends up pushing the auger straight off. When I was initially trying to get some leverage on it I could really only get one side at a time and I was worried I was going to bend the auger shaft. This solved that by putting equal force on both sides.

Hopefully that explains it well enough, it only took about 5 minutes to get it off. That being said I would definitely soak it in PB before anything.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

2muchsnow said:


> 16 in. Tie Rod Separator
> 
> 
> Amazing deals on this 16In Tie Rod Separator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
> ...


Thanks 2muchsnow. I'm in Manchester. I'll definitely swing by Harbor Freight tonight. This machine is one I want to sell, as I have an 828 in far better condition that I want to be my regular machine, but I have a feeling this won't be the last time I do this repair.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

klawrencNH said:


> Thanks 2muchsnow. I'm in Manchester. I'll definitely swing by Harbor Freight tonight. This machine is one I want to sell, as I have an 828 in far better condition that I want to be my regular machine, but I have a feeling this won't be the last time I do this repair.


Looking to sell? Send me a message...I have a 2014 928 Track but its way too big for my house, I might be interested.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

2muchsnow said:


> Where about in NH are you? I have a really good tool for getting those off.


what kind of tool? do you have a picture? I work on a lot of these and every trick helps.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> what kind of tool? do you have a picture?


Forum Rule #2 (after #1 which is check the date of the last post in a thread) is to read to the current end of the thread... Your question has been answered!!!


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

tabora said:


> Forum Rule #2 (after #1 which is check the date of the last post in a thread) is to read to the current end of the thread... Your question has been answered!!!


okay.gotit. this has to do with :recommendations on threads at the bottom. that is why ancient threads are brought back up.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

orangputeh said:


> okay.gotit. this has to do with :recommendations on threads at the bottom. that is why ancient threads are brought back up.


No worries. I find it works very well. It was definitely worth the $10 (minus a20%off if you have one!) I've spent more on far worse things..

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

2muchsnow said:


> No worries. I find it works very well. It was definitely worth the $10 (minus a20%off if you have one!) I've spent more on far worse things..
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Tried with a pneumatic version of the tie rod puller, but it didn't do the trick. I'm going to try a manual method today.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

klawrencNH said:


> Tried with a pneumatic version of the tie rod puller, but it didn't do the trick. I'm going to try a manual method today.


Yeah I saw they had that but honestly you want the leverage from the longer handle not the hammering action. Just remember to put a 2x4 or something against the auger transmission case so you don't ding it up. 

If you want to bring it down to Nashua ill show you exactly what I did, I already have the tool.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

2muchsnow said:


> Yeah I saw they had that but honestly you want the leverage from the longer handle not the hammering action. Just remember to put a 2x4 or something against the auger transmission case so you don't ding it up.
> 
> If you want to bring it down to Nashua ill show you exactly what I did, I already have the tool.


Thanks 2muchsnow. I picked up the regular and tried it today. I can get it in there pretty good, but can't get it all the way down. So it appears there's been a bit of movement. I put some more PB in there and I'm letting it sit for a bit. My next step will be to heat it red hot, I've just been avoiding that because I didn't want to damage the seals. If nothing works I may just take you up on the offer, besides being in Nashua means I can stop by Spyglass and snag some beer.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

klawrencNH said:


> Thanks 2muchsnow. I picked up the regular and tried it today. I can get it in there pretty good, but can't get it all the way down. So it appears there's been a bit of movement. I put some more PB in there and I'm letting it sit for a bit. My next step will be to heat it red hot, I've just been avoiding that because I didn't want to damage the seals. If nothing works I may just take you up on the offer, besides being in Nashua means I can stop by Spyglass and snag some beer.


No problem let me know. You have the 828 for tomorrow? I think we are in the 8-10 range now.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

2muchsnow said:


> No problem let me know. You have the 828 for tomorrow? I think we are in the 8-10 range now.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk





2muchsnow said:


> No problem let me know. You have the 828 for tomorrow? I think we are in the 8-10 range now.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


I've got a 621 I picked up on here in October. I initially got it to flip, but I've grown quite fond of it. Won't crush the snow in one fell swoop, but it should work in multiple passes.

The 828 needs a carb, which won't be here in time. Bummer because I'm dying to start using that machine.

Best-
Kevin


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

tie rod wedge aka a pickle fork a bigger one is a pitman arm wedge. they look alike save the later is wider


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

klawrencNH said:


> I've got a 621 I picked up on here in October. I initially got it to flip, but I've grown quite fond of it. Won't crush the snow in one fell swoop, but it should work in multiple passes.
> 
> The 828 needs a carb, which won't be here in time. Bummer because I'm dying to start using that machine.
> 
> ...


I might have a carb, I'll look tonight. There's a guy in merrimack who regularly sells gonna stuff he might have one also you could check CL. There's nothing like using the big boy on snow like we are supposed to get!

What happened to the carb that it couldn't be rebuilt?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

2muchsnow said:


> I might have a carb, I'll look tonight. There's a guy in merrimack who regularly sells gonna stuff he might have one also you could check CL. There's nothing like using the big boy on snow like we are supposed to get!
> 
> What happened to the carb that it couldn't be rebuilt?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


Nice, let me know. I noticed earlier in the month he has some scrapers and paddles, but I didn't see a carb. I'll look today and email his posting anyways. You never know.

I picked up the 828 for $100 last year. The sellers claimed they had it regularly serviced and that it just stopped running. The augers, auger housing, and body looked way better than my 724. So for a $100 I figured it was a no brainer, even if I sold it for parts. When I got it home I did a compression test and changed the oil, both of which were solid. When I started taking the carb apart it needed seals, a fuel strainer cup (it had rusted through), and maybe a float. So at that point I was at $55 to $65 which is almost the price of a new carb. That coupled with the fact that I have a new born and two under 5, I figured replacing it might be the easier path forward. But I should add I'm no pro at rebuilding carbs, and have only done one other 4 cycle carb, my 621. Prior to that I've only thoroughly cleaned a handful of 4 cycle carbs and actually rebuilt about 10 2 stage carbs (weed trimmer, chainsaw, tiller). So it's likely it can definitely be rebuilt, I'm just not sure I have the time to learn what I need to know and get to it.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

klawrencNH said:


> Nice, let me know. I noticed earlier in the month he has some scrapers and paddles, but I didn't see a carb. I'll look today and email his posting anyways. You never know.
> 
> I picked up the 828 for $100 last year. The sellers claimed they had it regularly serviced and that it just stopped running. The augers, auger housing, and body looked way better than my 724. So for a $100 I figured it was a no brainer, even if I sold it for parts. When I got it home I did a compression test and changed the oil, both of which were solid. When I started taking the carb apart it needed seals, a fuel strainer cup (it had rusted through), and maybe a float. So at that point I was at $55 to $65 which is almost the price of a new carb. That coupled with the fact that I have a new born and two under 5, I figured replacing it might be the easier path forward. But I should add I'm no pro at rebuilding carbs, and have only done one other 4 cycle carb, my 621. Prior to that I've only thoroughly cleaned a handful of 4 cycle carbs and actually rebuilt about 10 2 stage carbs (weed trimmer, chainsaw, tiller). So it's likely it can definitely be rebuilt, I'm just not sure I have the time to learn what I need to know and get to it.



I have 2 carbs, neither are for your Honda though - sorry. I have gaskets for just about everything including the carb, spark plugs, bearings, I even have a couple caps for the transmission case if you end up damaging it getting that auger off. Oh and a muffler for a 828 if you ever need one.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

2muchsnow said:


> I have 2 carbs, neither are for your Honda though - sorry. I have gaskets for just about everything including the carb, spark plugs, bearings, I even have a couple caps for the transmission case if you end up damaging it getting that auger off. Oh and a muffler for a 828 if you ever need one.


Nice, thanks. How do you tell if you need a muffler? The one on there looked pretty rough, so if it needs replacing I'd much rather pay someone on here for one than Naults or an online retailer.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

klawrencNH said:


> Nice, thanks. How do you tell if you need a muffler? The one on there looked pretty rough, so if it needs replacing I'd much rather pay someone on here for one than Naults or an online retailer.


Its probably fine. The only way I would know is if its unusually loud or if you take it off and shake it - it shouldn't make much noise. See if anything falls out. You could try to look inside but unless its rusted through its more than likely good. The one I have isn't new either I bought it used last year to replace the one on my 828 but never did before I sold it.


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## klawrencNH (Dec 3, 2018)

2muchsnow said:


> 16 in. Tie Rod Separator
> 
> 
> Amazing deals on this 16In Tie Rod Separator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
> ...


Over the break I got around to using the tool you recommended 2muchsnow, and it actually started to move a bit. Unfortunately the metal collar piece that the auger attaches to ended up shattering into pieces. So now that side has a stuck auger and no collar. I'm going to set it aside temporarily as I work out my next steps. I wanted to sell this machine before I started on the 828, but now I'm just going to dive into the 828 so I can use it the rest of the winter. At least it's in better shape over all.


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