# What's best for gravel, any new models to consider ?



## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

For this season are there any new models that should be considered for gravel driveways? Are tracked units easier to get into the back of a truck bed with a ramp?


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

Disregard putting it in the truck. After tests with ramps I've decided I'll use a trailer. 

Is there ever a use case where a wheeled blower is better than a top rated tracked blower like the Hondas?


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

I have never needed a tracked blower, wheeled blowers work just fine unless your driveway was incorrectly built with a steep hill in it... I load and unload my wheeled blower from the truck bed several times each snow event. I walk it up backwards in reverse keeping it fairly level and walk it down in a low gear, no problem. Good Luck with your decision.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Brent Holm said:


> unless your driveway was incorrectly built with a steep hill in it....



So, you're telling me that my driveway was incorrectly built ? Talk to the person that decided to place steep hills in the Adirondacks !


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## enigma-2 (Feb 11, 2014)

Based on your requirements, the Ariens Compact 24 trac would fit your needs perfectly. $1500 at Jack's, but you may be able to find it cheaper elsewhere. 

https://youtu.be/lcXxysWdxjA

You can adjust the clearance of the bucket with a hand lever. From 1/8" to an 1" or more for gravel. Just squeeze the lever and lean the handles down to raise the bucket. Release the lever to lock. 

You can also raise the back treads off the ground and turns it into a wheeled drive as well.

Has auto drive for easy turns.

Has 5.5" treads to clear steep drives. 

Great engine. Easy to service.

(Personally I'd spring for a model with more features. I have the Platinum, 24" with wheels and would never go with any other brand). 

https://youtu.be/Xf0WGOS5Fu0


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

I have a gravel driveway and have operated both wheeled and tracked snowblowers on my driveway. During early-winter and late-winter conditions, a wheeled snowblower functions better on my gravel driveway. 
It's so much easier to turn/re-direct a wheeled snowblower when there is no ice layer built up on the driveway. It's also much easier for a wheeled snowblower to track straight under these no-ice conditions because the axle-differential allows the respective wheels to turn at different speeds. 

Under these same no-ice conditions, it will be difficult to control the direction of a tracked snowblower. There is no track-speed-differential on a tracked snowblower (e.g. Honda HS-1132TAS) and if one track slips (skids) and if the other track still grips then the entire machine will change direction (skid steer) toward the skidding track. Under no-ice conditions, it is very difficult to execute a U-turn with a tracked snowblower. 

A tracked snowblower comes into its own during mid-winter; after an ice layer has built up on the gravel driveway. Its tendency to skid-steer is eliminated. It's also so much easier (still not as easy as a wheeled machine) to execute a U-turn. 

A tracked snowblower is superb at bulldozing through deep snow due to its superior traction in deep snow having an ice-layer base. It will decimate the street plow's snow windrow without the tendency to raise its auger housing. It will climb stairs! Be careful reversing/backing up (especially in icy conditions) because if you slip/fall then the tracked continues reversing (it does not readily slip) and it will drive right over you! I know this from direct experience and I am thankful the machine stops once the operator has released the hand lever. 

Moving a tracked snowblower with the engine shut off is near impossible; regardless of whether its hydraulic drive is disconnected. To store it in a concrete-floored garage, its easier to simply drive it onto a 4-wheeled platform dolly then roll the dolly on the garage floor. A wheeled snowblower doesn't present this same engine-less movement impossibility.


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

RIT333 said:


> So, you're telling me that my driveway was incorrectly built ? Talk to the person that decided to place steep hills in the Adirondacks !


The Adirondaks....LOL Come and see me in the mountains. I have built many roads and driveways where there are not just hills but cliffs. Most people have no idea how to properly situate a home and driveway on a given lot, I see it everyday. I very rarely see a fresh site that couldn't accommodate a decent drive and I am pretty confident I am dealing with much more challenging terrain in the Rocky Mountains.

So yes, I would be willing to bet your driveway was incorrectly built, probably 80% are so don't take it too personally...


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

badbmwbrad said:


> Under these same no-ice conditions, it will be difficult to control the direction of a tracked snowblower... It's also so much easier (still not as easy as a wheeled machine) to execute a U-turn... Moving a tracked snowblower with the engine shut off is near impossible;


Please realize that NONE of this is true with a modern tracked blower like the Honda HSS series or Troy-Bilt StormTrackers; they have steering triggers that disconnect the drive to the tracks when pulled and make maneuvering child's play.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

badbmwbrad said:


> I have a gravel driveway and have operated both wheeled and tracked snowblowers on my driveway. During early-winter and late-winter conditions, a wheeled snowblower functions better on my gravel driveway.
> It's so much easier to turn/re-direct a wheeled snowblower when there is no ice layer built up on the driveway. It's also much easier for a wheeled snowblower to track straight under these no-ice conditions because the axle-differential allows the respective wheels to turn at different speeds.
> 
> Under these same no-ice conditions, it will be difficult to control the direction of a tracked snowblower. There is no track-speed-differential on a tracked snowblower (e.g. Honda HS-1132TAS) and if one track slips (skids) and if the other track still grips then the entire machine will change direction (skid steer) toward the skidding track. Under no-ice conditions, it is very difficult to execute a U-turn with a tracked snowblower.
> ...


Thank you for the detailed information. For the wheeled models, do the front skids/shoes leave ruts in the gravel?


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

tabora said:


> Please realize that NONE of this is true with a modern tracked blower like the Honda HSS series or Troy-Bilt StormTrackers; they have steering triggers that disconnect the drive to the tracks when pulled and make maneuvering child's play.


Can you clarify if this relates to turning while running the machine or just when moving the machine when it is not running.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

somuchsnow said:


> Can you clarify if this relates to turning while running the machine or just when moving the machine when it is not running.


 Both: Pull one steering trigger and the track on that side stops being driven and will rotate freely, so the machine pivots in that direction as the other track remains driven. Raise the augers with the left thumb control on the Honda or the Track Lock Lever on the Troy-Bilt and pull both triggers and both tracks are completely free-wheeling, so the machine can be pushed/pulled/turned by hand easily.

It's a whole different experience than with older tracked blowers where the tracks are always engaged.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

tabora said:


> Both: Pull one steering trigger and the track on that side stops being driven and will rotate freely, so the machine pivots in that direction as the other track remains driven. Raise the augers with the left thumb control on the Honda or the Track Lock Lever on the Troy-Bilt and pull both triggers and both tracks are completely free-wheeling, so the machine can be pushed/pulled/turned by hand easily.


How tight can they turn compared to wheeled and does the track dig up the gravel when it pivots? It seems like it should be OK if the track is still free to move.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

somuchsnow said:


> How tight can they turn compared to wheeled...


With my Honda HSS1332, a perfect 180, lined up for the next pass every time.



somuchsnow said:


> ...does the track dig up the gravel when it pivots?


 Not in my experience, but the gravel driveway in front of my barn is quite compacted, and I lift the auger housing with the thumb lever on every turn on gravel so it doesn't drag. I actually do this almost all the time on asphalt, too, because it's easier to turn without the skids dragging.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

tabora said:


> Not in my experience, but the gravel driveway in front of my barn is quite compacted, and I lift the auger housing with the thumb lever on every turn on gravel so it doesn't drag. I actually do this almost all the time on asphalt, too, because it's easier to turn without the skids dragging.


Thanks for that information. I thought that tracked units didn't use a skid which is why I was leaning towards tracked.


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## Hanky (Nov 14, 2014)

I used to press down on my Handle bar and less track on ground just like a wheel unit works and turns on a dime.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

somuchsnow said:


> I thought that tracked units didn't use a skid which is why I was leaning towards tracked.


 All snowblowers (to my knowledge) use skids. Otherwise, the scraper bar, auger housing and augers would hit the ground and eventually ruin them. The skids that don't have rollers require periodic adjustment to keep the scraper bar at the proper height (a paint stick thickness, usually) to prevent unnecessary wear.
https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1081226-post1.html


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

tabora said:


> All snowblowers (to my knowledge) use skids. Otherwise, the scraper bar, auger housing and augers would hit the ground and eventually ruin them. The skids that don't have rollers require periodic adjustment to keep the scraper bar at the proper height (a paint stick thickness, usually) to prevent unnecessary wear.
> https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1081226-post1.html


That does make sense. Where are the skids on this style of machine? Side view at 1:50.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

somuchsnow said:


> Where are the skids on this style of machine? (Honda HSS1332ATD)


Right there on the rear of the auger housing... Red arrow shows factory rear mounted skids; green arrow shows aftermarket side mounted skids, in this case Armor Skids - probably the best off-pavement skids.


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

On a Honda HS1132TAS, ski runners are fastened to the rear of the auger housing. The auger housing would rock and roll and skid-steer as the tracks alternately acquire and lose traction. For the same machine, Honda offers optional commercial skid shoes which fasten to the ends of the auger housing. These are much further apart than the ski runners. The commercial shoes provide greater stability if the machine attempts to skid-steer.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

Thank you. Am I right in thinking that both wheeled and tracked as just as likely to leave a rut in a gravel driveway that isn't frozen nor packed firmly?


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

somuchsnow said:


> Thank you. Am I right in thinking that both wheeled and tracked as just as likely to leave a rut in a gravel driveway that isn't frozen nor packed firmly?


I would think that tracked would be LESS likely, due to less spinning (better traction) plus the ability to suspend the auger housing at any level above ground.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

tabora said:


> ...plus the ability to suspend the auger housing at any level above ground.


Stupid question time. If you have the skids set for 1" off the ground and then you raise the auger housing to 2" is it safe to run the unit without changing the height of the skids?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@somuch,

Just by nature of things, a tire is carrying the weight of half the machine on a much smaller footprint than a track machine , and how it disperses machine weight. That is why people wear snow shoes in the snow, and not regular shoes.

If you have a bucket with skids set at 1 or 2 inches going over ground that is not packed or frozen, i.e. loose gravel, regardless if it is wheel or track, the weight of the bucket is going to leave marks …. unless you keep some slight down pressure on the handles. That is the law of physics.

Most people are snow blowing paved surfaces, or hard packed gravel driveways. Unless of course you are trying to snow blow a crushed stone driveway, in which case, you better get in a lot of practice on machine handling for that scenario …


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

somuchsnow said:


> Thank you. Am I right in thinking that both wheeled and tracked as just as likely to leave a rut in a gravel driveway that isn't frozen nor packed firmly?



I think you're talking about the skids leaving ruts, not the tires or tracks.


In that case then I think it would depend on the size of the skid and how many psi of force are on it. Wider/longer skids should dig in less as the psi of ground pressure is lower. With a track unit it sounds like you can raise the bucket and have the tracks take the weight so the bucket would be floating above the ground and thus no pressure on the skids so no digging in.


Personally if you live where there's winter... Talking about real winter and not this stuff that snows and melts in a few days kind of winter.. When I lived in North Pole AK and had a long wide gravel driveway and winter conditions from November to March, I'd leave the first snow and drive over all of it with my pickup to pack the snow down. That leaves a nice base and keeps the gravel down and frozen and then all the following snow storms, just set the scrapper and skids and run them right on the hardpack. Still be cognizant and never point the chute towards a vehicle or house or even close, my unit had a gutless 1980 5hp B&S that was tired and would barely throw snow 15 feet to the right and maybe 10 feet to the left, but if I caught a stray rock it would go 25 feet or more! Also the hardpack would be a bad idea if your driveway had a slope as you'd be falling on your butt from the nice layer of icy snow!!



With the joke of a winter where everything melts every few days or so then the hardpack wouldn't work so well. I'd go with the skids the other person talked about (pointed out in a picture) and then get a tracked blower that can hold the bucket up an inch or two while blowing.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

somuchsnow said:


> Stupid question time. If you have the skids set for 1" off the ground and then you raise the auger housing to 2" is it safe to run the unit without changing the height of the skids?


Sure! I have my skids set at 3/32" for the pavement and just elevate it an inch or so when doing the paths on the lawn, and probably 1/2" or so doing the gravel driveway, and maybe 3-4" when turning.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

oneacer said:


> If you have a bucket with skids set at 1 or 2 inches going over ground that is not packed or frozen, i.e. loose gravel, regardless if it is wheel or track, the weight of the bucket is going to leave marks …. unless you keep some slight down pressure on the handles.


Just to confirm, a tracked unit isn't balanced to keep the auger housing off the ground without the skids touching. Is that correct?


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

tabora said:


> Sure! I have my skids set at 3/32" for the pavement and just elevate it an inch or so when doing the paths on the lawn, and probably 1/2" or so doing the gravel driveway, and maybe 3-4" when turning.


Awesome, that's what I needed to know. Thanks for all of your excellent feedback. I can't believe I'm going to drop $3K+ on a tracked snowblower but it looks like the best option for my aging body and gravel driveway.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

somuchsnow said:


> Just to confirm, a tracked unit isn't balanced to keep the auger housing off the ground without the skids touching. Is that correct?


No. The tracks will remain flat on the ground with the auger housing in any position, but as it gets closer to the ground it becomes easier and easier to tip the blower forward lifting the rear of the skids. However, usable at all heights with light hand pressure on the grips, at least on my HSS1332.


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

somuchsnow said:


> Thank you for the detailed information. For the wheeled models, do the front skids/shoes leave ruts in the gravel?


Only if you have too much gravel on your drive. Again, some of these challenges are due to poor driveway construction methods. I dropped 2 customers last year plowing due to the excessive amount of loose gravel they want on their drives. Trying to maintain several inches of loose gravel is a mistake. It needs to be packed to a hard surface and it should be done with something like a class 5 road material with binder in it so you do not end up with a soft surface. If you run on loose gravel, you will fight it and it will tear up your machine. I will not run my blower on less than a hard surface, and I avoid plowing them as well. Your driveway should NEVER be so soft that anything sinks on or leaves tracks.


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

somuchsnow said:


> Just to confirm, a tracked unit isn't balanced to keep the auger housing off the ground without the skids touching. Is that correct?


A tracked snowblower (e.g. Honda HS1132TAS) has a foot pedal to adjust the weight pressing down on the skids. The pedal changes the track angle (with respect to the machine) which changes its fore/aft weight bias. 

If the tracks are level (not tilted rearwards) with the machine then the machine's fore/aft weight bias is neutral/balanced and there is no weight pressing down on the skids (i.e. The skids are up in the air). This is the machine's transport mode; used to relocate the machine (engine on or off) to/from the work area. If the auger is engaged while transporting then it will clear snow but it will leave a few inches of snow-layer on the ground. 

The other two positions tilt the tracks (with respect the machine) rearwards which forces the skids into the ground. Depending on the skid height adjustment, the machine will have a lesser/greater tendency to scoop up gravel. 

My experience clearing a gravel driveway has taught me to set the skids to raise the scraper bar as high as it will go. This is especially important when clearing snow during early and later Winter when there is no frozen ice-pack to hold the gravel in place.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

Brent Holm said:


> It needs to be packed to a hard surface and it should be done with something like a class 5 road material with binder in it so you do not end up with a soft surface.


I've never seen a gravel road or driveway that is a hard or solid surface. They can get firm but skids will leave a rut because its gravel and gravel moves (if it didn't we wouldn't need to grade a few times per year). Even with a good amount of fines it isn't anywhere near as solid as asphalt.


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

somuchsnow said:


> I've never seen a gravel road or driveway that is a hard or solid surface. They can get firm but skids will leave a rut because its gravel and gravel moves (if it didn't we wouldn't need to grade a few times per year). Even with a good amount of fines it isn't anywhere near as solid as asphalt.



Gravel roads get graded so often because they never compact after grading. Only a couple times have I even seen a grader equipped with a pneumatic roller assembly attached to the back (not sure if it was used ever but it was there like a dozer ripper to roll the road after they graded it). The only time I've ever seen a roller compacting after a grader is on a military base where they have a surplus of people and time so they are likely to do it right.



So if you have a properly graded driveway AND have it properly compacted, it will shed water and stay tight for a long time and a snowblower isn't going to make much of a mark on it and it won't do anything but move a little sand on top if the driveway is frozen.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

Not in my experience and we have ours compacted with a professional compactor after grading. Compacting makes a difference in the firmness of the surface but by no means does it create a solid surface out of gravel. That would be impossible because gravel doesn't have a real binder like those used in asphalt and concrete.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@somuch,

A true processed gravel will bind itself and compact nicely, unless you are referring to crushed stone as gravel, which it is not.

Many people have different ideas on what gravel actually is.


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

My "gravel" drive is hard as a rock. The plow barely touches it, much less the blower. It certainly can be done and your locality should not be an issue...


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

somuchsnow said:


> Not in my experience and we have ours compacted with a professional compactor after grading. Compacting makes a difference in the firmness of the surface but by no means does it create a solid surface out of gravel. That would be impossible because gravel doesn't have a real binder like those used in asphalt and concrete.


You need to change driveway contractors, yours is stealing from you. Running a compactor over gravel that does not contain a binder is a waste. You properly mention that it doesn't work... You should NEVER loose surface a driveway, EVER. I have not graded or compacted my drive in years. Properly done it should be a hard surface. Why would you allow your drive to be any other way?


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

As @oneacer and @Brent Holm said, gravel means something other than decorative crushed stone, at least around here. I rented a small stand-up dozer when I leveled my gravel drive at the barn a decade ago and then drove carefully all over it to pack it with the treads. Now I can drive my 6000lb indoor-shod forklift on it without leaving a mark.


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

A really steep driveway is probably a good candidate for a tracked driveway; regardless whether it's gravel-paved or blacktopped. 

My gravel driveway is 3/4" processed blue stone ("3/4 dense grade") having a significant percentage of stone dust content which acts as a binder. A plate compactor smashes it into a hardened surface which is nearly impervious to standing water but it does soften it. 

I've been running a snowblower on my gravel driveway for 30 years. The snowblower skids usually won't dig into the driveway except during early and late Winter when the gravel surface is not frozen. My Ariens has the HMWPE skids (non-abrasive) set to raise the scraper bar as high as possible. This minimizes potential for picking up a loose stone during early and late Winter. 

A loose stone can be hammered back into the driveway during a rainstorm :smile2:


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

badbmwbrad said:


> The snowblower skids usually won't dig into the driveway except during early and late Winter when the gravel surface is not frozen.


Exactly what I'm talking about. Gravel creates a firm surface but not a solid surface so it ruts when its not frozen. Mine is the same.

In the US the majority of "gravel" is man made. I know that some people say "gravel" is technically only the nature made stuff. OK, but I prefer the man made gravel that has the sharp angular interlocking edges. Even if we are all using a high quality state spec 3/4 minus gravel I believe there are regional differences in the type of rock available that make it difficult to compare driveways that are built in different areas. IMO, if the average 3/4 minus gravel product compacted to a solid surface then road builders probably wouldn't offer tar-and-chip as a less expensive option to asphalt because the solid gravel surface would be good enough.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@somuch,

Not true … gravel is a natural state material made in nature.

Man made material with crushed stone and stone dust is called "process" … You have large process, small process ...…

You might have different areas with different names, but that is the general names I have been familiar with all my life ….

LOL, no matter whatever they call it, get whatever works for you in a particular situation …


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

https://geology.com/articles/crushed-stone/



> Granite is the layman's name used for any light-colored igneous rock that is used in construction. Granite, granodiorite, diorite, and rhyolite are a few of many light-colored igneous rocks that are called "granite" in the construction industry.
> 
> "Trap rock" is a layman's name used for any dark-colored igneous rock that is used in construction. Basalt, peridotite, diabase, and gabbro are examples of trap rock.
> 
> ...


https://blog.midwestind.com/how-is-gravel-made/



> Also known as crushed stone, gravel is made up of unconsolidated rock fragments. The most common types of rock used in gravel are sandstone, limestone, and basalt. It has a wide variety of industrial and construction applications, from home building to road paving, and is categorized either as granular (coarse) or pebble (fine).
> 
> *A small fraction of the United States’ gravel is naturally formed rock* harvested from streams, riverbeds, and other geographical formations. The most common types of natural gravel include bank, bench, creek, and plateau gravels. And as for the rest, mining companies in all 50 states are responsible for producing gravel in regions where naturally crushed rock cannot be found.


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

WOW! Never really heard crushed rock referred to as granite and I have been in the construction industry for decades. Now gravel definitely has several interpretations and is typically used as generically as kleenex. When you build a road you want to start with larger rock, 3" minus between 8-12 inches in a couple compacted lifts. The 4-6 inches of road base or 3/4 minus rock processed generally with sand and clay mixed in for binders. This needs to be wetted and compacted. Then you need to crown it and provide ditches to drain the water. Water ruins roads, water running down or across roads ruins them quickly. Many people ask for gravel, generally 3/4" minus crushed rock, and get it. It does have a purpose in rainy climates because road base gets muddy. It makes snow removal a PIA and I do not recommend it unless you just have to have that look or have to walk it when really wet often. Gravel proper is not good driveway material. I have seen it done several inches deep, that is the worst way to go but, that doesnt stop people from doing it, clearly...


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

Brent Holm said:


> When you build a road you want to start with larger rock, 3" minus between 8-12 inches in a couple compacted lifts.


Does the amount of recommended 3" rock change as the characteristics of the natural base change? For example, when the base you start building on is already laden with natural rock?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@somuch,

Road construction, as well as driveways, varies by geographical location and available materials.

There are right ways and wrong ways for road or driveway construction. You can argue all day as to who does what and where.

What Brent is referring to in his post regarding 3" stone would be consider "surge" or "trap rock" in this area, and is only used under a road as a first base if you are in an undesirable sub base. There really is so much to take into consideration, that it is a mute issue trying to surmise what one area would do in preparation and final top coat, as opposed to another area.


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

Brent Holm said:


> WOW! Gravel proper is not good driveway material. I have seen it done several inches deep, that is the worst way to go but, that doesnt stop people from doing it, clearly...



One size gravel with no fines or anything in it?? Man that would stink to drive and walk on as it would constantly shift underfoot I'd think.


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## somuchsnow (Feb 25, 2019)

notabiker said:


> One size gravel with no fines or anything in it?? Man that would stink to drive and walk on as it would constantly shift underfoot I'd think.


I have a friend that got surprised while he was out of town with a delivery of product like that. Sort of like walking in a heavy sand. It's not absolutely horrible but it doesn't compact nicely like the 3/4 minus state spec I use.


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