# Hit the limit of my 826 - Monster storm - chugging



## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

50 year storm in my area yesterday and last night. THe snow was heavily packed and 4 1/2 feet deep in my 120 ft. driveway.

Taking my time it took almost an hour to get a 4 ft. wide path cut through for 100 ft. at which point the engine started to chug so shut her down for 20 minutes.

After I restarted she ran smoothly but *the moment I put her under load she immediately began to chug so I pulled the machine back out of the snow. She chugged for another 10 seconds and cut out. Tried again and same thing. *She has fresh efree gas and oil and a new oem carb with 3 hours on it.

Does anyone have insight/experience over what might cause symptoms like this?

*FOLLOW UP:* Turns out it was a bad plug. New NGK plug fixed the problem.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Have you checked for spark once it chugs and dies ?

.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Have you checked for spark once it chugs and dies ?
> 
> .


Haven't checked it yet. However the machine will restart and run fine up until it hits load.

Can't see how you can check for spark during operation and at point of actually dying? Am I missing something. [I'm not knowledgeable about engine repair :crying:]. I'm assuming it has spark since it can be restarted.

My engine handy neighbor suggested it could be the plug. He said when small engines are worked hard...*which the machine was definitely doing*...the plug can go fubar and need to be replaced. Does that sound right to you? She has the original plug with 3 winters on it. I will get a new plug.

Thank you for your reply.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

does it run and operate normally with no load i assume? it evens chugs with small bite of snow? like maybe 3rd of bucket? 

is it stalling or just chugging? is there any obstructions like built up ice in housing and chute? 

could be fuel delivery problem? fuel cap off , does it still do it? 

I haven't run into this problem but it has been posted here on these forums before. following to find out cause. someone will be along with some answers hopefully.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Richen the mixture


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> does it run and operate normally with no load i assume? it evens chugs with small bite of snow? like maybe 3rd of bucket?
> 
> is it stalling or just chugging? is there any obstructions like built up ice in housing and chute?
> 
> ...


No ice or chute blockage. It ran smoothly both times I restarted it. Drove okay too. Once it faced a small snow load began to chug and died within 10-15 seconds despite pulling it back from snow...it didn't recover, kept chugging.
Haven't tried removing gas cap yet to see if that makes a diff. I'm hoping it's a plug problem.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I would expect you to get it warm and then do whatever to get it to die and then while it's not restarting check for spark.

You might also want to check to see if you have a bearing that is starting to bind up. Between the bearing and a load of snow it might be more than the engine can take.

.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

1132le said:


> Richen the mixture


It has an oem Toro carb. How does one richen the mixture? Drill out a jet?
*Why would it run fine, no chugging dying for an hour if it was running lean?*


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

barney said:


> 50 year storm in my area yesterday and last night. THe snow was heavily packed and 4 1/2 feet deep in my 120 ft. driveway.
> 
> Taking my time it took almost an hour to get a 4 ft. wide path cut through for 100 ft. at which point the engine started to chug so shut her down for 20 minutes.
> 
> ...


 Exhaust valve may be low on clearance.
Classic sign is the problem begins with a substantial load put on engine...problem goes away in a very short time when the load is gone.
What I would do is..run er until she acts up...shut off.. immediately pull rope and see if it has a compression loss..if yes...but has good compression again after sitting a minute or two..it's a classic sign of not enough exhaust valve clearance




Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> I would expect you to get it warm and then do whatever to get it to die and then while it's not restarting check for spark.
> 
> You might also want to check to see if you have a bearing that is starting to bind up. Between the bearing and a load of snow it might be more than the engine can take.
> 
> .


Had no problem restarting. How the heck do you check to see if a bearing is binding? Tear the engine down and???


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

If the snow was higher than the machine, it would be possible for the carb\governor linkage to bind up from snow buildup. Depending on the heat box over the carb, snow may be sucked into the carb throat also.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Shovel said:


> Exhaust valve may be low on clearance.
> Classic sign is the problem begins with a substantial load put on engine...problem goes away in a very short time when the load is gone.
> What I would do is..run er until she acts up...shut off.. immediately pull rope and see if it has a compression loss..if yes...but has good compression again after sitting a minute or two..it's a classic sign of not enough exhaust valve clearance
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


Thank you for this excellent advice. I will def give that a try and see.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Grunt said:


> If the snow was higher than the machine, it would be possible for the carb\governor linkage to bind up from snow buildup. Depending on the heat box over the carb, snow may be sucked into the carb throat also.


Snow was def higher than machine by a foot or foot and a half. *I guess if snow gets sucked into your carb you then have a water problem in the bowl that will need to be dropped and cleaned out?*

Thank you for your good tip.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

barney said:


> Had no problem restarting. How the heck do you check to see if a bearing is binding? Tear the engine down and???


 I think Mark means an auger/impeller or drive train bearing.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

barney said:


> It has an oem Toro carb. How does one richen the mixture? Drill out a jet?
> *Why would it run fine, no chugging dying for an hour if it was running lean?*



New carb could be the issue among other things
Most old tecs had adjustable carb stumbling in heavy dense bucketfulls richen a tad sometimes takes care of it

last thing changed 1st thing to check carb if its and 8 hp tec get and adjustable carb for 13 bucks


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Shovel said:


> Exhaust valve may be low on clearance.
> Classic sign is the problem begins with a substantial load put on engine...problem goes away in a very short time when the load is gone.
> What I would do is..run er until she acts up...shut off.. immediately pull rope and see if it has a compression loss..if yes...but has good compression again after sitting a minute or two..it's a classic sign of not enough exhaust valve clearance
> Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


Except it didn't need a substantial load and didn't go away when load was removed. But I will run your check. 
I would ad that the problem started over the course of about 4 minutes...was running perfect up to that point..so happened pretty quickly.
PS. It's a 2017 model with low hours.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

+1 on the compression loss symptoms...likely time for a valve job. 

There's a slim chance that it's the head gasket and you may be able to re-torque the head bolts. 

this is an old briggs and stratton flathead correct?

I believe they torque spec on those is 165 *inch *pounds *(NOT FOOT POUNDS!*).


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Grunt said:


> I think Mark means an auger/impeller or drive train bearing.


I see. I do know that the augur appeared to spin freely without a snow load. But I will have a closer look to see if I can determine if there's problem with that. Not sure how you can determine that.

Thank you for that.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

classiccat said:


> +1 on the compression loss symptoms...likely time for a valve job.
> 
> There's a slim chance that it's the head gasket and you may be able to re-torque the head bolts.
> 
> ...


No it's a 2017 Toro oem Chinese engine with maybe 20 hours total. The chugging starting quickly after an hour of use and a few minutes later engine cut out. Restarted fine, idled fine, and immediately began chugging again as soon as a bit of load introduced and cut out again. At that point I put it away.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

barney said:


> No it's a 2017 Toro oem Chinese engine with maybe 20 hours total. The chugging starting quickly after an hour of use and a few minutes later engine cut out. Restarted fine, idled fine, and immediagtely began chugging again as soon as a bit of load introduced and cut out again. At that point I put it away.


Oh gosh...ok. I change my answer then! 

It could be fuel related then...restriction (fuel flow can't keep up with increased load demand) or bad tank venting.

with an overhead valve engine, it's easy enough to check valve clearances if it does feel like you're low on compression.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

I just tried it again. Started fine. Very strange that the instant the augur just touches a corner of the snow face she cuts out. So the tiniest bit of load it instantly cuts out. Yet it drives no problem.

I think I need to replace the plug. Drop the bowl and clean that in case some snow got sucked into carb. Check linkages. Check my trans case again and try and determine if anything else may be binding....(not sure what else could be 'binding'?)...and go from there.

Thank you gentlemen.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

barney said:


> No it's a 2017 Toro oem Chinese engine with maybe 20 hours total. The chugging starting quickly after an hour of use and a few minutes later engine cut out. Restarted fine, idled fine, and immediately began chugging again as soon as a bit of load introduced and cut out again. At that point I put it away.


See if a touch of choke straightens it out..new engines run lean.
Hunting(engine revving up and down) without load is first symptom..falling flat and stalling with a heavy load is the other.
But it sounds like yours run...but just crappy.
Also another way to check for lean condition is to snap the throttle from idle to full throttle after the engine is warm...a gentle stumble is fine..but if it stumbles and dies it's lean.




Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Check the governor it may be sticking and not opening up the throttle in response to the load.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

barney said:


> I just tried it again. Started fine. Very strange that the instant the augur just touches a corner of the snow face she cuts out. So the tiniest bit of load it instantly cuts out. Yet it drives no problem.
> 
> I think I need to replace the plug. Drop the bowl and clean that in case some snow got sucked into carb. Check linkages. Check my trans case again and try and determine if anything else may be binding....(not sure what else could be 'binding'?)...and go from there.
> 
> Thank you gentlemen.


Sounds lean.. partial clog on main.
It sounds like it just stalls as soon as it gets a load?..If yes.. then probably a partial clog on main jet...choke fixing it will confirm a partial clog on main.
If the choke don't fix it then you may not have enough fuel flow.
When you have the bowl off...turn on the fuel for a second or two to make sure fuel flows freely..also check that the needle(for float) is moving freely as well.
On occasion they can get corrosion causing them then to stick open..shut..or perhaps in your case shut.. but not fully shut which will allow a small amount of fuel to pass through.. however these problems usually show up after a machine has been sitting and has not been in use recently.






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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Are you running FULL BORE????????? Sounds like The Gov is the problem.*


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

barney said:


> Had no problem restarting. How the heck do you check to see if a bearing is binding? Tear the engine down and???


i think he is talking about the impeller bearing or the side auger bearings. i didn't even think of that right off. with engine off and plug boot pulled see if you can move the impeller by hand. and then the augers. should be some resistance due to auger belt but you should be able to move it.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

:angel:


LouC said:


> Check the governor it may be sticking and not opening up the throttle in response to the load.


Thank you for this. 

I note that prior to the storm I moved the machine down from my distant shed and put it next to my back door and covered it with a tarp and rope. 

*Unfortunately at some point during the storm (60-80 mph winds for 18 hours) the tarp got pulled back and the engine and gas tank area was exposed. I'm wondering if that fine snow contaminated my gas tank?. Can fine snow get through a gas cap vent hole? Duh! I guess it can get into the carb too.
*
The machine ran fine for an hour.

Do my sudden cut out symptoms under load correspond with water contamination?

EDit:
I also note that I just tried starting the machine and couldn't get it to start after a couple of pulls. So I'm thinking contaminated gas and/or plug at this point and probably iced up governor too.

*I'm beginning to think I may have failed the machine instead of the machine failing me. I'll update/report the problem/fix when that is determined for any other novice's benefit.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *Are you running FULL BORE????????? Sounds like The Gov is the problem.*


Yes, I was running full throttle. How does one deal with a 'problem' governor? I'm guessing make sure it's not sticking on some ice buildup on linkage? Shoot a bit of lubricant on it?

Thanks for the tip.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

barney said:


> Yes, I was running full throttle. How does one deal with a 'problem' governor? I'm guessing make sure it's not sticking on some ice buildup on linkage? Shoot a bit of lubricant on it?
> 
> Thanks for the tip.


* The Fly weights might be going to the Dogs.*


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * The Fly weights might be going to the Dogs.*


Can you restate that bit of wisdom such that snowblower dopes like me can understand the point you're making? :smile2:


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

barney said:


> Can you restate that bit of wisdom such that snowblower dopes like me can understand the point you're making? :smile2:


* The Fly weights on the Gov inside the engine are on there way to REST IN PEACE!!!!*


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * The Fly weights on the Gov inside the engine are on there way to REST IN PEACE!!!!*


You're sure of that are you? What is the usual reason for failure of said flyweights? And do they fail all at once or over time? I'm guessing the spring goes?
Is this a common point of failure in low engine hour units?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

barney said:


> What is the usual reason for failure of said flyweights? And do they fail all at once or over time?


* After a certain amount of Time they just Don't throw out at the right rpm. Might be do to sludge build up on them or just plain worn out.*


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * After a certain amount of Time they just Don't throw out at the right rpm. Might be do to sludge build up on them or just plain worn out.*


Would this be likely in an engine with 15-20 total hours? Do they usually degrade slowly or all at once? 

Thanks for the info.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Can you remove enough shroud(s) to see the throttle plate linkage, while operating? If it's a governor problem, you should be able to tell from watching the governor and throttle operation while putting a load on the engine. If the governor doesn't open the throttle plate as the engine slows, then you have a governor problem. Otherwise it's something else. 

Edit- you could also temporarily tie a string to the throttle plate, drive it into snow, then give the string a little tug, to ensure the throttle plate is open fully, even if you do have a possible governor issue. Just to understand whether it's the actual engine itself, or the governor. 

I don't think sucking some snow in through the carb's intake, while running, would get water down into the carb bowl. But if you suspect possibly bad gas, then draining the tank & bowl is a good idea. Not super-difficult, inexpensive, and could help answer a question. 

Does adding partial choke help? If so, that would be consistent with running lean, for whatever reason.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

barney said:


> :angel:
> 
> Thank you for this.
> 
> ...


always start with the simplest solutions first and work your way up.lots of good suggestions here. 

you can look into gas tank and perhaps see water floating around the bottom since water is heavier than gas. the cap is probably venting okay since it's a 2017 but it's easy to check. just run it with out cap to see if same thing happens.

since it runs okay until it "touches" snow i wonder if somrthing like a piece of wood or rock is binding up behind your impeller? seen that before. like some people have said , it could be a fuel delivery problem. too lean under load but i don't understand why then would it work okay for an hour before problem cropped up.

too bad you couldn't post a video. with all this help I'm sure you will eventually figure it out.

yes, iced up linkages cause a lot of these problems. can you thaw?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

barney said:


> You're sure of that are you? What is the usual reason for failure of said flyweights? And do they fail all at once or over time? I'm guessing the spring goes?
> Is this a common point of failure in low engine hour units?


* WHAT year is this Snow blower?????????????*


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

If i had s dollar for everytme someone blamed the gov here in threads
on a list of 1 to 15 exhaust valve would be 14 and gov 15
check movement of all linkage


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Can you remove enough shroud(s) to see the throttle plate linkage, while operating? If it's a governor problem, you should be able to tell from watching the governor and throttle operation while putting a load on the engine. If the governor doesn't open the throttle plate as the engine slows, then you have a governor problem. Otherwise it's something else.
> 
> Edit- you could also temporarily tie a string to the throttle plate, drive it into snow, then give the string a little tug, to ensure the throttle plate is open fully, even if you do have a possible governor issue. Just to understand whether it's the actual engine itself, or the governor.
> 
> ...


I will be doing more inspection tomorrow...the machine acted up at dusk today in -25 celsius and high winds after sitting exposed for 18 hours in high winds and fine blowing snow...it's now dark and I can't get the machine indoors yet. Have it tightly tarped now. 

Glad to hear about remote possibility of snow getting into carb resulting in water problem.

I didn't get a chance to try and choke it but it didn't seem like that would have saved it.

Thanks for the great information!!


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

1132le said:


> If i had s dollar for everything someone blamed the gov here in threads
> on a list of 1 to 15 exhaust valve would be 14 and gov 15
> check movement of all linkage


*Thank you* for that considered opinion. :smile_big: 

I'm hoping some part of the carb linkage may have just frozen up. I'm hoping there is some kind of exposed governor linkage that can do that. I will be checking it out as soon as I can get the machine into garage.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Hey Barney, 

Since I'm not as familiar with your machine, like these other guys seem to be, Can you post the model and serial number from your machine?? AND the engine M&S numbers too?? No sense going crazy until we are ALL Familiar with what you actually own. Lots of good suggestions here, but I agree that Sludge buildup are kind of unlikely on a fairly new machine, which apparently you have. That and the fact that it happened SO suddenly, as it appears it did. But the fact that it is VERY repeatable event, leads me to believe that you won't have to look far, if we all just slow down, and look at the facts.


GLuck, Jay


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * WHAT year is this Snow blower?????????????*


2017 Toro 826 OE with 15-20 hours. Clean oil.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

1132le said:


> If i had s dollar for everytme someone blamed the gov here in threads
> on a list of 1 to 15 exhaust valve would be 14 and gov 15
> check movement of all linkage


Not sure how to interpret this. You think it *is* the gov, or valve, or you think it *isn't* those? I don't know which end is which, in the 15-point scale


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Not sure how to interpret this. You think it *is* the gov, or valve, or you think it *isn't* those? I don't know which end is which, in the 15-point scale



They be last red


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Thank you for all your help especially the considered opinions/advice fellas. You've been great.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Could it be lack of a lubricant such as in the auger gear box?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

barney said:


> *Thank you* for that considered opinion. :smile_big:
> 
> I'm hoping some part of the carb linkage may have just frozen up. I'm hoping there is some kind of exposed governor linkage that can do that. I will be checking it out as soon as I can get the machine into garage.


thanks for checking back so quickly. we are all trying to help and sometimes the owner never comes back when they found out what was wrong and how it was fixed. it's frustrating to a cranky ol troll like me.:wink2:


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

How old is the machine? I have seen spark plugs that are ok on idle and just stop on power need. 

Valves adjust can affect it as well (mine are over due for a check mine but will save for spring!) 

There are no slam dunk answers, you have to go through the basic progressions and then go from there.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

barney said:


> 2017 Toro 826 OE with 15-20 hours. Clean oil.



At last!


No, not the least bit interest in boxing thank you.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

RC20 said:


> How old is the machine? I have seen spark plugs that are ok on idle and just stop on power need.
> 
> Valves adjust can affect it as well (mine are over due for a check mine but will save for spring!)
> 
> There are no slam dunk answers, you have to go through the basic progressions and then go from there.


2017...plugs three years old. A friend also suggested the plug could be on the fritz so I'm glad to hear you've seen this particular symptom before.

Thank you for your help.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

RC20 said:


> At last!
> 
> .


Sorry...thought I had given the year/machine earlier in the thread.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

I agree with the other respondent that it sounds like a fuel delivery problem. I know you have a new carb (and presumably new jets) on there, but what about the rest of the fuel system? Hoses? Filters?


Running an unloaded engine (even at high RPM) takes almost no fuel flow, so it's no surprise you can start and run it. But put a load on it and fuel requirements go way up. If you have old hoses, they may be disintegrating internally and restricting flow above idle levels. Note that such particles can clog "new" jets and carb passages too, which is why it's always a good idea to replace all fuel hoses and filters when replacing the carb or jets. Fuel line is cheap and easy to install.


WRT the plug: Pull it out and inspect it. Clean? Gapped properly? Any little particles stuck to the electrodes? Clean with a brush, regap, and reinstall. Highly unlikely you need a brand new plug, cleaning and regapping should do it.



Report back!


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

Verify the governor functions to further open the carburetor throttle valve when the engine encounters a load. Conversely, when there's no engine load, the governor should function to move the throttle valve in a closed direction. You should see some movement of the governor linkage and throttle valve in response to engine load changes. 

As others have indicated, it takes very little throttle valve movement from its full-closed position to bring the engine up to its rated speed when there's no load present. As the auger starts to move snow, the engine has to produce more power to do the increased work, therefore, the governor will function to further open the throttle valve.

Given the high wind and snowy conditions and given that it's stored outside at very low temperatures, it's possible wind-borne snow has coated the governor linkage with ice; degrading its function.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

the 5 digit model number is of more help than 2017 826OE, that and the serial number can help break down the correct year also and help get the correct service manual info.

if it's a loncin not a briggs as toro lists the older one's having,(https://www.toro.com/en/parts/partdetails/?id=38953) for a loncin toro parts lists in the fuel tank veiw illustrated part number 9 shown or toro # 136-7801 Fuel Line Kit which consists of the joint( intank thread in fuel filter,) formed hoses, and inline fuel filter, any of the 2 when clogged can reduce fuel flow , 

the factory TORCH spark plugs are not of the best made, (ngk clone) at near 20 hours and as it's a it's a resistor plug, it has seen better days,,if it is ? a f7rtc ( toro #119-1901 Plug-Spark) replace it with a NGK bpr6es 

make sure it's clear of snow/ice has build up under the gas tank over the governor linkage, that is also a area mice love to build nests, 

since it was running good for a hour my personal guess is try a new spark plug before going wild


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

at the bottom of the features alone side of the photo's is a link to click for a loncin service manual download .yes i know it's in chiness but some how there most be a way to translate it to english of french 
https://www.loncinindustries.com/en/engine/ProductDetail.aspx?catid=8-15-16-32-55-2146779966#proFlag


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## johnwick (Dec 16, 2019)

Does anyone know how these Toros know when to stall the engine without the use of shear pins? I sure don’t. But something to think about. As soon as the auger hits snow, it’s stalling out, similar to the way the machine tries to save the gearbox when it hits an obstruction. Could something be wrong with that system and it’s tricking itself? Lack of lube in gearbox perhaps? Frozen grease in gearbox? Auger dragging or catching on the side bushings/bearings? It’s being kept in very harsh, cold conditions.


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

87powershiftx2 said:


> the factory TORCH spark plugs are not of the best made, (ngk clone) at near 20 hours and as it's a it's a resistor plug, it has seen better days,,if it is ? a f7rtc ( toro #119-1901 Plug-Spark) replace it with a NGK bpr6es


Good Lord,they actually put those horrible Torch plugs in a Toro?


My Harbor Freight Greyhound 6.5hp came with one of those plugs,it lasted less than 15 hours of use.By all means the OP should toss that thing right off the bat...


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

johnwick said:


> Does anyone know how these Toros know when to stall the engine without the use of shear pins? I sure don’t....QUOTE]
> 
> As far as I know,Toros have no such system that kills the engine if the auger fails to turn.
> 
> ...


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

* Well now that I know It Is not a Old School TORO with a BRIGGS Motor on It. I am out of Here. Don't Know Nutting about these new 1's. k:k:k:k:k:*


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

Mike C. said:


> Good Lord,they actually put those horrible Torch plugs in a Toro?
> 
> 
> My Harbor Freight Greyhound 6.5hp came with one of those plugs,it lasted less than 15 hours of use.By all means the OP should toss that thing right off the bat...


sadly yes!since the source of the motor is china we get what toro gets. 

hope he has gotten a fix as Newfoundland got over 30 inches of snow over about 24 hours https://www.foxnews.com/world/major...than-12-inches-of-snow-in-newfoundland-report


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

fox news should repair the headline.it should read 
(Canada’s easternmost province was buried under 30 inches of snow Friday – a record for the most snow in 24 hours – as residents of the provincial capital of St. Johns struggled to clear snow drifts of 12 to 15 feet high left in the wake of the storm, a published report said.)


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

just today had mine own toro start miss fire while warming it up to change the oil, "5w30 to syntech 0w30' , i have a replacement motor on mine done by my buddies at the dealer, we NEVER checked the plug, to my amazement i found what was labeled BOSCH in blue letters with F7RTC stamped in the metal and a plug that for sure was not burning right totally black 

trying to cross it over i can not find a bosch plug with that number, any where, doing a goggle it only comes up as a touch plug 

Ok i spent my life working german car dealers as a master tech, service manager and factory level as a district service manager, never have i seen a near blank bosch plug ,bosch almost always as a few of the rings in the porcelain painted,they have a better cad plating that i have personally never seen rust .

end feeling IMM counterfeit,
getting back to barney's problem i hope it was only a plug nothing major with his area of canada having been hit big time with drifts of 12 to 15 feet


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

check the rpms with a tach, if its too low it could stall under load, or just increase the rpms if u can and/or governor needs adjusting


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## enigma-2 (Feb 11, 2014)

As the enging runs good until under load, id assume it's good (til proven otherwise).

I'd suspect binding or dry bearings in the blower section. Try greasing the zerks on the auger shaft to start.


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## hammer6315 (Dec 15, 2019)

enigma-2 said:


> As the enging runs good until under load, id assume it's good (til proven otherwise).
> 
> I'd suspect binding or dry bearings in the blower section. Try greasing the zerks on the auger shaft to start.


Try greasing the zerks on the auger shaft? Come on man!


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## enigma-2 (Feb 11, 2014)

As the engine runs good when not under load, theres a real possibility that the drive is putting the engine under too much load. I would look at either the auger binding (hense greasing the zerk) or possibly something dragging in the drive. 

Doesn't hurt to have a look at the mechanicals other than the engine inasmuch as it started after being under so much load.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

> Doesn't hurt to have a look at the mechanicals other than the engine inasmuch as it started after being under so much load.



While I fully agree check all the stuff out and do the basics, the symptoms do not remotely suggest its seizing up the auger or the impeller.,


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

> end feeling IMM counterfeit,



Yep, Chinese, ergh. .


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

enigma-2 said:


> As the enging runs good until under load, id assume it's good (til proven otherwise).
> 
> I'd suspect binding or dry bearings in the blower section. Try greasing the zerks on the auger shaft to start.


sorry man!! toro's have never had zerk's on their machines , on the powermax the side bearings are die cast formed alloy the impeller is a egg oilite


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## Iowashift (Mar 7, 2018)

A co-worker ran his undersized snowblower (for the amount of snow we got) hard and heavy for an extended time and shut it off without letting it cool down. Went back out to finish and the starter rope wouldn't pull. His mechanic said the crank bearing seized due to it being so hot and the quick shut down.

Maybe yours overheated a little and causes some issues once it gets hot/under load?


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Iowashift said:


> A co-worker ran his undersized snowblower (for the amount of snow we got) hard and heavy for an extended time and shut it off without letting it cool down. Went back out to finish and the starter rope wouldn't pull. His mechanic said the crank bearing seized due to it being so hot and the quick shut down.
> 
> Maybe yours overheated a little and causes some issues once it gets hot/under load?


I think "His mechanic" is a bit of a BS'r. I think that one puked just because it was time to. I don't cool down anything except me with a beer.:smile2:


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

gibbs296 said:


> I think "His mechanic" is a bit of a BS'r. I think that one puked just because it was time to. I don't cool down anything except me with a beer.:smile2:


agree man! esp since a loncin crank rides on roller bearings not inside die cast bores


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:iagree: I guess I'll get lumped into that skeptical group. Think of all the lawn mower engines that only run full throttle and the only way to stop them is with the blade brake. Pretty fast and abrupt shut down.
They are vertical engines but the one bearing/bushing at the top doesn't get any oil to cool it down after shut down.

Just me thinking out loud.
.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

how true mark.


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

Yeah, I try to cool down all my engines, I idle them a minute or two before I shut them down, and let the small ones cool off outside, and the bigger one I idle it into the shed, run it dry, and leave the door open for a while just to try to be a little safer. Never had anything freeze up. I use synthetic oil in everything.
Sid


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> :iagree: I guess I'll get lumped into that skeptical group. Think of all the lawn mower engines that only run full throttle and the only way to stop them is with the blade brake. Pretty fast and abrupt shut down.
> They are vertical engines but the one bearing/bushing at the top doesn't get any oil to cool it down after shut down.
> 
> Just me thinking out loud.
> .


Please don't get me wrong. I do believe it's a good idea to warm them up a little before putting them to work and letting them idle down before shutting off.
I was only trying to point out that I don't think that mechanic was making a reasonable argument is suggesting the bearing failed due to not being "cooled down".

.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Well as it turns out it appears that the spark plug was the culprit. Put a new NGK in and she's back to running like new. 

The original plug had three winters on it...approx. 15 hours, maybe less. It didn't look that bad when I took it out. I'll have to check and see if it was one of those Torch jobs.

Symptoms:
The engine started to chug after an hour's extremely heavy going opening up a path in 4 ft deep heavily compacted snow. Further restarts and she would die as soon as augurs touched snow. After one more try like that she wouldn't restart.

New plug fixed it. I'll be changing plugs every year going forward.

Thanks to all that contributed their considered advice. I appreciated it.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

That's fantastic! And it's great to learn what can cause those sorts of symptoms. The plug is not something I would have suspected, but it's great that it was a cheap and simple fix. Now it's something for me to keep in mind if I run across a machine behaving that way. 

I used to replace plugs more often (if I'd buy a used machine, it would get a new plug, etc), but I rarely saw a change/benefit, so now I tend to just leave them as-is, after checking the gap. If replacing the plug proactively every year is not quite necessary (sounds like it might be, with good quality plugs), I'd at least keep a spare on the shelf, in case you suddenly have a problem.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

barney said:


> Well as it turns out it appears that the spark plug was the culprit. Put a new NGK in and she's back to running like new.
> 
> The original plug had three winters on it...approx. 15 hours, maybe less. It didn't look that bad when I took it out. I'll have to check and see if it was one of those Torch jobs.
> 
> ...


good news barney, crazy how these torch plugs fail, with so small a hour number on them


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> :iagree: I guess I'll get lumped into that skeptical group. Think of all the lawn mower engines that only run full throttle and the only way to stop them is with the blade brake. Pretty fast and abrupt shut down.


It's true that generators, lawn mowers, etc. all run their engines at full throttle all the time. But one thing to keep in mind is that there is a HUGE heat difference in an engine running with no load, and that same engine running under a heavy load. As I've said here before, there's a reason boat engines "run great on the trailer" but have troubles when they're dropped in the water. Very little fuel flows when an engine is idling, and not much more flows when an unloaded engine is spun up to max RPM's... there's just not much load there, so it takes very little fuel to spin it fast. But put a load on it, particularly one that "hits the limit" in a "monster storm" (like this thread's title), and the fuel flow and workload and heat buildup skyrocket in comparison.

There's a reason that generator manufacturers tell you to warm up their engines before connecting a load, and to let them run a bit after disconnecting the load before turning them off. It's to dissipate heat within the engine. Just cutting off a hard working engine with no cooldown can actually cause internal temperatures to go UP for a while, since any active cooling (a fan, circulating oil, etc.) disappears. I've measured this on marine engines and an engine whose thermostat maintains a roughly constant 160F operating temperature can see temps of 180F+ if simply cut off after working hard as the internal heat works its way out.

I can easily imagine a bearing seizing after its engine was run hard and then just cut off abruptly. This is why I always warm up and cool down engines, even those that run at max RPM all the time. Yes, in the case of lawn mowers it means I stand there holding the safety bail for a couple of minutes (and even then, I release it gently so the engine slows down gracefully). It's not just an RPM thing... it's a HEAT thing. You need to give your engine's components a chance to warm and cool together.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

87powershiftx2 said:


> good news barney, crazy how these torch plugs fail, with so small a hour number on them


Turns out the plug was the Torch one you indicated.


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