# Flat Free Tires



## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

Hi folks - been a while since I have been on here...couldn't remember my password, lol. Just curious, has anyone bought a new snowblower with the plastic flat free tires?

These things are terrible. I bought a new Yardworks (Canadian Tire version of an MTD blower) 30 inch snowblower last winter and the flat free tires were being pretty hyped up. I have never had a flat tire - ever - on any snowblower I have owned, so I am pretty positive it is simply a cost savings/profit maker for the company vs offering any real world benefit to the user.

Anyways - all last winter these things would bung up with snow and simply spin. I have a slight little ramp to get into my storage shed, and where my previous snowblower with normal tires would walk up no problem, this thing just sits there and spins. The plastic compound is too hard and won't bite.

To add insult to injury, this summer they went flat. Yes, the flat free tires went flat, and now have flat spots on them that do not go away during use. I lurch every tire revolution as the tires hit the flatspot. My tire is the second attached photo. First photo is a generic shot from the website.

Has anyone else had issues with these? Any luck getting it resolved with the dealer or brand? I am debating on trying to report the issue to Canadian Tire, as I know when I call I'll get the "Due to higher than normal call volumes" message and I don't feel like sitting on hold for an hour.

I thought about raising the tires off the ground next year during storage to at least get around the flat spot issue, but doubt it will work as the flat spots are not going away as the plastic has deformed permanently it seems

Thanks. I am curious how anyone with these tires are dealing with the issue


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Geez, that sucks, sorry. Talk about insult to injury!

Clumsy and a bit silly, but could you try and pop the flat areas out again? Like stick a wooden dowel through the flattened hole, to help re-shape it.

I would definitely support the frame and get the wheels off the ground for the off-season. Even though you sure shouldn't need to do that! Maybe keep an eye out for compatible used conventional wheels?


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## robs9 (Sep 5, 2018)

Speaking of no flat tires. Is there a product to make pneumatic tires flat free?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Where was it stored last year in the summer? Might it have gotten hot enough to soften the plastic? It looks like it would want to pop back out, if it could flex, and I would think a little carefully applied heat might get it to do so . . .

Not sure what those are made of, but I have some vinyl floor plank that does that . . . stiff as wood inside, but out in the sun, totally floppy and flexible . . .


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

How much is a new flat free plastic tire ?

I would probably opt for a real tire like the XTrac, as most machines come with that I have seen.


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

It is always stored indoors - in my shed, and might get above 80F for a few days every summer. I might have to shape a piece of wood the right size to hammer into the mannicoti hole and use a heat gun to reshape the plastic.

Just sad though - you'd think someone would have actually realized "Hey, this stuff is too hard to provide traction in the cold, and too soft to retain shape in the heat"

We've only been building tires for 120 years or so now


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Maybe if you flatten the rest of them the same way it will have better traction? :grin:

Thanks for posting, I will never buy anything with those on it!


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

robs9 said:


> Speaking of no flat tires. Is there a product to make pneumatic tires flat free?


Wanna trade? lol


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## robs9 (Sep 5, 2018)

Ricketts said:


> Wanna trade? lol


No, that's ok. At least I can air mine up if i need to. Can't imagine why they would that kind of tire on a machine that weighs as much as a snowblower does. 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

robs9 said:


> Can't imagine why they would that kind of tire on a machine that weighs as much as a snowblower does.


I have a gue$$.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

.
_
"I am pretty positive it is simply a cost savings/profit maker for the company vs offering any real world benefit to the user_"

My first thought too when these started showing up on Troy Bilts 2 years ago. Aint no way they were trying to make the product better with this, and your pic proves it. 

IMO, sub-standard stuff like this gets brought to market by some young "know it all" MBA grad type with no real world experience that's only in it for him/herself to make the biggest bonus possible that is based on how much money is saved at the end of the year. They dont care about you. 

I see it a lot now in corporate america.


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

RedOctobyr said:


> I have a gue$$.


Definitely...has nothing to do with providing better operation


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

tdipaul said:


> .
> _
> "I am pretty positive it is simply a cost savings/profit maker for the company vs offering any real world benefit to the user_"
> 
> IMO, sub-standard stuff like this gets brought to market by some young "know it all" MBA grad type with no real world experience that's only in it for him/herself to make the biggest bonus possible that is based on how much money is saved at the end of the year.


For sure. I see this in my job everyday. No idea is a bad idea, regardless of how many years of real-world experience had led up to the thought at hand


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

Ricketts said:


> For sure. I see this in my job everyday. No idea is a bad idea, regardless of how many years of real-world experience had led up to the thought at hand


Old timers (myself included) have been saying this for decades (centuries ??). I still remember the first time my dad caught me making a similar reference. He got a good laugh out of it. 

Also, I have a different take on the cause. Substandard ideas get brought to market because most customers don't care that much about quality on these products, they just want low cost. Remember, the customer sets the marketplace, not the producer.

Oh, and i do not see any real benefits from that type of tire. 

Again, my $0.02.

tx


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

I know! I'm at that age where I still remember my parents saying these exact things and catch myself at it, laughing too. But at least I didn't get a participation trophy for everything I did and we were allowed to learn from our mistakes.

Regarding the marketplace setting the rules, I didn't ask for hard plastic tires, lol. The funniest thing is this fits right in with CX, the Customer Experience. All these manufacturers keep harping on how to improve CX then make it so exceedingly difficult for the customer to even report a problem. Who is going to sit on hold for an hour to report crappy tires on a snowblower. They win.

Ironically, in Canada we call Canadian Tire...Crappy Tire. The irony


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

Ricketts said:


> I know! I'm at that age where I still remember my parents saying these exact things and catch myself at it, laughing too. But at least I didn't get a participation trophy for everything I did and we were allowed to learn from our mistakes.
> 
> Regarding the marketplace setting the rules, I didn't ask for hard plastic tires, lol. The funniest thing is this fits right in with CX, the Customer Experience. All these manufacturers keep harping on how to improve CX then make it so exceedingly difficult for the customer to even report a problem. Who is going to sit on hold for an hour to report crappy tires on a snowblower. They win.
> 
> Ironically, in Canada we call Canadian Tire...Crappy Tire. The irony


Yeah, I hear you. And, respectfully, you and most forum members are not really the average customer.


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

They are marketing gimmick. Try to get you buy their snowblowers with new features. They simply don't work. The soft rubber help a lot. Plastic deforms over time as you put weight on it. Any person with some knowledge can tell.

Snowblowers also don't have a lot of weight for those track treads style to work. They dig into the ground and mud, but not icy pavement.


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

paulm12 said:


> Yeah, I hear you. And, respectfully, you and most forum members are not really the average customer.


For sure!


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

dman2 said:


> They are marketing gimmick. Try to get you buy their snowblowers with new features. They simply don't work. The soft rubber help a lot. Plastic deforms over time as you put weight on it. Any person with some knowledge can tell


So, hopefully this week I can make some time to call CTire customer service, won't hurt, but knowing I'll spend 2 hours doing it, lol. Last year, when I first noticed that the plastic tires bung up instantly with snow and spin, I thought about using a reciprocating saw to modify the treads, cutting gaps perpendicular to the treads to give it more space to keep the snow from building up. But maybe I'll wait until after the unsatisfactory customer service call, haha

I'll let everyone know how it went, but it might have to wait until after Christmas now. Stay tuned


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Two sides to every story. The guy over at MovingSnow.com really likes the airless tires. Just wondering if any others have any experience with them?


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## jtw1979 (Mar 14, 2017)

I remember a few years ago when these started showing up. Glad my CC blower has regular tires. Seems like you might want to contact MTD if under warranty. Otherwise I would change the wheels and tires for standard ones if possible.


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

Contacted Canadian Tire who transferred me to MTD, I emailed them the picture. They say they are surprised about the deformity and will get back to me.

Stay tuned


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Well, they sure aren't cheap: https://www.amazon.com/Arnold-490-325-M049-Airless-Thrower-Black/dp/B0776CGQP4
Hope they take care of you without much fuss...

Looks like the original part number 634-05123 has been superseded, so perhaps they've recognized their error. The new ones say they're made with 20% recycled rubber.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Home Depot has them for just over 100.00, but that is still crazy …. They are a split rim, why can't they just sell the tread section, nothing wrong with the rim itself.



https://www.homedepot.com/p/MTD-Gen...x-5-in-Wheels-Set-of-2-490-325-M049/304062353


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## johnwick (Dec 16, 2019)

Ricketts said:


> Contacted Canadian Tire who transferred me to MTD, I emailed them the picture. They say they are surprised about the deformity and will get back to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Stay tuned




My Ariens manual says to store the machine up on blocks during the off season to relieve pressure on the wheels/tires. I’m certain nothing would happen if I didn’t considering they are large, good ole fashion rubber tires. 

Does your manual say you should keep the wheels off the ground during storage? If not, it should. But you should NOT be having to deal with this regardless. Sorry for your troubles and I hope MTD makes it right with new wheels at the least.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

.

IMO its all part the plan...

On the front end they lure you in with the low purchase price 

Then when the cheap parts fail they nail you with rediculus replacement parts prices 


.


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## jtw1979 (Mar 14, 2017)

If those had been solid rubber instead of hollow plastic this wouldn't happen. Course that would have been a couple extra dollars.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

jtw1979 said:


> If those had been solid rubber instead of hollow plastic this wouldn't happen. Course that would have been a couple extra dollars.


I had an old Simplicity with solid rubber tires. Their treads were also worn pretty smooth by the time I got it, of course. The best that could be said for them is that, with chains, that machine was somewhat unstoppable, at least on an icy surface. With a geared transmission, and weight that punched the chains down into the ground with every mini "bang" from the solid wheels, it had lots of drive. Unfortunately the 5hp engine kind of let that down, but it would drive itself into a snowbank until it stalled.

Does your machine have a common bolt pattern on the wheels? Replacement pneumatic wheels might be cheaper than replacements of the current style, plus they'd probably work better and last longer.


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## amuller (Jan 3, 2016)

Years (decades) ago many snowblowers had solid rubber tires. I guess there are reasons they went to pneumatic tires.

If it were mine I'd look for a set of wheels/tires off a machine being parted out or given away. Even old, cracked, dry-rotted tires will probably work with tubes in them. But lawn type tires will probably need chains, and real blower tires with aggressive tread are only around $25.

But, I have no idea how your present ones are attached to the machine. So I don't know how much effort the swap would require.

Agree that relentless price pressure, plus expectations of new features (heated handles, remote chute controls, lights....) probably takes its toll on the basic mechanical integrity of the machine. Still, those tires look like crap to me.

am


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Actually they are cutting edge tech...https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/04/gm-and-michelin-airless-tires/


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

They've been around for at least 15 years, just not that popular (yet)

Collapsing and holding a "memory" isn't part of the design though

Someone cheaped out on these

A bad copy of the Michelin Tweel

.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

gibbs296 said:


> Actually they are cutting edge tech...https://www.engadget.com/2019/06/04/gm-and-michelin-airless-tires/


Those Michelin UPTIS are cutting edge; looks like the early MTD ones might be more bleeding edge, same as the TWEEL was?


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

Hi everyone - status update:

MTD replaced the tires free of charge - that was very awesome of them. Still on warranty of course but I'm glad I didn't have to load up the snowblower and take it into a repair depot just to have then remove 2 bolts to change the tires 

They paid for return shipping of the old tires as well to check them over to see what could be the reason they flattened out. I like that, they are interested in bettering their product.

The manual doesn't state lifting the machine off the ground during summer storage, and when I talked to the guy on the phone he said it shouldn't be required. I might start doing that anyways as a precaution each summer. I do not store anything on top of the machine during storage either so the tires couldn't have been flattened from extra weight.

Very interesting experience - and very thankful MTD stood up for their product.

Thanks


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Glad they stood behind the issue.

Indeed, if it were me, I would also be blocking it up while in seasonal storage … sure doesn't hurt ….


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Good for them, to do the right thing. That's nice to see, these days. Another vote for putting it on blocks during the off-season. Or maybe keeping an eye out for a cheap set of wheels on CL.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Nice they honored the Warranty

I would store it blocked up.

You don't have to deal with it but heating them up (carefully) and off the ground might have restored them to normal if MTD had not weighed in. electric heater or an infrared heater (I have both) come to mind vs a torch. 

I just replace my wheel barrow tire with a flat free type, never understood why they don't come that way. Tires are always flat when you need them (same with the hand cart) 

There is a fix to drill them and fill them with expanding foam. Of course the foam is not cheap either.


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## Ricketts (Feb 25, 2014)

RC20 said:


> Nice they honored the Warranty
> 
> I would store it blocked up.
> 
> ...


It's funny you mention that...I've been looking at flat free tires for my hand cart for years, and looked into the expanding foam diy trick, but some of the people who did that ended up with the foam collapsing and not being able to repair it again. My previous snowblowers with regular tires never developed flats, but the new one comes with flat free tires, my hand cart always develops flats and they don't come with flat free tires. Irony.

If MTD didn't step up, I was going to try the heat trick - I was thinking of cutting some wooden dowels the same dimensions as the mannicoti holes, heating them up and pushing them in


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## toofastforyou (Jan 29, 2019)

My son has a Yard Works snowblower with these air-less tires and he said they never had any flat spot on them even after being stored for months without moving… :icon-shrug:

Claude.


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