# what happened to snowblowers?



## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

i haven't really been to a dealer to look at new blowers in a long time. i usually deal with older blowers from the 80's and early 90's.

i am just surprised on 2 things how much plastic is used and how thin the metal is that they use now for these things. i feel that they wont have the shelf life and will rust through faster then the thicker older snowblowers?

not to mention they are as expensive as ever. what do you guys think?


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Same with EVERYTHING ELSE made nowadays. Its all made to last a certain amount of time so you go back for more. Manufacturers dont want to sell a one and done, cant make money that way


-efisher-


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## pearlfinish (Oct 25, 2016)

Not to familiar with the older blowers, but you're probably right in terms of materials used. It's like everything else now a days, look at cars for example, same thing has happened. Everyone wants a lighter blower full of power, and the only way to do that is to change materials. 

But to be honest, who wants a blower to last a lifetime anyways?? I sure don't!! I loved buying a new Toro this year, and for $1000, I won't be upset if I only use it for 10 years, and buy a new one. I mean, if it doesn't eventually break down on you and fill with rust, what excuse are you gonna give your wife that you need another one...:wink::wink:


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Not exactly a shocker when you consider how everything else has changed...... tight economy and cost cutting is the name of the game if you wanna play. It's just the way it goes...... have you noticed how much shipping things has gone up!!? It's to a point where free shipping is a big deal now!


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

pearlfinish said:


> Not to familiar with the older blowers, but you're probably right in terms of materials used. It's like everything else now a days, look at cars for example, same thing has happened. Everyone wants a lighter blower full of power, and the only way to do that is to change materials.
> 
> But to be honest, who wants a blower to last a lifetime anyways?? I sure don't!! I loved buying a new Toro this year, and for $1000, I won't be upset if I only use it for 10 years, and buy a new one. I mean, if it doesn't eventually break down on you and fill with rust, what excuse are you gonna give your wife that you need another one...:wink::wink:


yea i suppose how you feel is probably the norm now. i am 32 but from talking to my dad and grandpa people used buy things that last pretty much a lifetime equipment . my grandpa has and still has a cub cadet riding lawn mower from 1969. 

lately i have been coming across lots of 1970's ariens snow thro's (i buy and sell used blowers) still in good shape. i just find it hard to believe the new ones will last that long.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

A good quality snowblower from the ninetys cost how much.....Powershift Toro comes to mind..........more money then today's blowers so how could they keep the same quality? Lawn tractors the same thing.......early seventies a decent tractor cost about the same as a pickup truck.....imagine that today? Lawn tractor prices haven't gone up in forty years!.....but they are built like crap now.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I am of the school to buy old and used ( low hours ) and keep it maintained forever. with the internet you can find parts. Better still is buy another one just for parts.

I still have things from 30-40 years ago that work fine with proper maintenance. Do the same thing with cars. Have some 70's cars still with over 300,000 miles on them. Registration and insurance fees are cheap. Parts are readily available and they are easy to work on. 

My Dad gave me all his old tools before he passed that are 60 plus years old . BTW , they were all made in the good ol USA!!!


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

My two 1971 Ariens:










They will very easily work beside me for another 20 winters, when all three of us will be 70 years old.

Scot


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

pearlfinish said:


> Not to familiar with the older blowers, but you're probably right in terms of materials used. It's like everything else now a days, look at cars for example, same thing has happened. Everyone wants a lighter blower full of power, and the only way to do that is to change materials.
> 
> But to be honest, who wants a blower to last a lifetime anyways?? I sure don't!! I loved buying a new Toro this year, and for $1000, I won't be upset if I only use it for 10 years, and buy a new one. I mean, if it doesn't eventually break down on you and fill with rust, what excuse are you gonna give your wife that you need another one...:wink::wink:


Exactly. Just like old cars vs new. Old ones have thicker steel but rust out 10 times faster.. Thickness of steel has no bearing to the life of it


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

I am a nostalgic kinda guy, especially the older I get. Additionally I realize that cost cutting is more apparent at this point in most machines relative to yesteryear. The Ariens Pro Series units feature heavier gauge auger housing side panels than their other models and you are paying extra for that as well as the other upgrades in the Pro Series. However the newer machines will generally outperform the older ones without requiring mods to throw far. If your newer machine is properly maintained and stored it can still last for decades.


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## Ballroomblitz (Nov 20, 2015)

For snow blowers I tend to think the older ones get the jobdone effectively and last a mighty long time, so put me down on the older sideof the ledger on this one. In the future perhaps technology will change myopinion, for now however I like my old beast of a machine.

Some newer things I change my mind and go for the newertechnology. Cars are much more maintenance free and run like a clock, gone arethe days of sticking a comb down the carburetor butterfly on a blistering coldday, yearly rust coating to little avail, yearly tune-ups and rough rides.Technology has come a long way, so go modern on that one.

Light bulbs I go newer as well with LED light quality going up,cost dropping exponentially, lifespan lasting upwards to 25 years, and cost ofuse being 1/6th. Goodbye incandescentwith lifespans of 2 years, material costs in buying bulbs over 20 years addingup, electricity costs and killing the planet. Within a few years as prices falleven lower don’t know anyone who can argue incandesants are better overall. Iam buying LED’s with rebates for $2.00, which over the life in saving ofmaterial cost and electricity seems to be an easy choice.

In snow blowers however still on the side of the oldermodels, till some new features hit the market that is a game changer. We arenot there yet, so call me an old timer still…lol.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

NJHonda said:


> Exactly. Just like old cars vs new. Old ones have thicker steel but rust out 10 times faster.. Thickness of steel has no bearing to the life of it


Thickness of Steel has a Great Bearing on the life of it. MTD, Cub Cadet, et al have Weak Tin Auger Buckets.that collapse at the bottom, and Rot Away. Here's a Comparison of a Typical Rotted MTD Bucket and an Early Ariens Bucket made of REAL Steel, not Tin. I don't see the Thick Ariens Bucket Rusting out 10x faster, and it's a 1962 vs a 1990s MTD.


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

Jackmels said:


> Thickness of Steel has a Great Bearing on the life of it. MTD, Cub Cadet, et al have Weak Tin Auger Buckets.that collapse at the bottom, and Rot Away. Here's a Comparison of a Typical Rotted MTD Bucket and an Early Ariens Bucket made of REAL Steel, not Tin. * I don't see the Thick Ariens Bucket Rusting out 10x faster, and it's a 1962 vs a 1990s MTD.*



im with you on that just didnt feel like starting a disagreement :coolpics:


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## thool (Jul 25, 2016)

I'll take a heavy machine with thick steel any day. Good for getting under packed snow.

Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk


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## pearlfinish (Oct 25, 2016)

We can all agree that they just done make anything like they used to, but with that said, there is nothing better then playing with a brand new shiny snowblower with all the latest bells and whistles. Grant it, I'm not that mechanically advanced, so I prefer something with warrantee, that hopefully won't need any work for a very long time. It even when I do have problems, I prefer taking it to my snowblower/lawnmower mechanic. I take my equipment in to see him pretty much annually, and for $40, he sharpens my blades, and makes sure everything is running smooth. I don't have time to fiddle with this stuff, and I expect it to work when I need it.


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## Paul463 (Nov 4, 2014)

Used to have an old Jacobsen. Everything that rotated had a ball bearing supporting it, cast iron gear box, and the bucket material was near a 1/8" thick. Built like a brick Sh** house compared to anything after it.

Had a newer 1977ish John Deere 826 that my dad bought new. It was a rattly old beast but never let me down. Bronze bushings on the things that rotated, cast iron gear box, and the housing material was slightly thinner. Sold that blower this summer.

Had a Honda HS1132 for a short time (hated it BTW). Thin material everywhere, aluminum gearbox, not sure on the bushings vs bearings. It was a good machine, but the tracks and hydro weren't for me.

I now have a Ariens 1336Pro. Material thickness is about what the John Deere had, cast iron gearbox, and plastic bushings here and there. And a ball bearing that they are very proud of ($$) supporting the impeller.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Old machines have simplicity, strength, and durability on their side. 

A quality (typically expensive) new machine has better ergonomics, greater throwing distance, and improved user functionality In an easier to manipulate package. Cheap junk aside.

The evolution of the snowblower is interesting to reflect on. A lot has changed and stayed the same.


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

Like someone said earlier.. Who wants to use the same blower for 40 years anyway? Id rather buy a new one every decade. Now I do LOVE old classic blowers but to count on for heavy duty use and speed, id rather go with a new one . I sure do love the old restored machines no doubt.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*You really want to know what happened to them???? Where should I start first off they had to start making them more safety features. then the EPA got involved because all those tree hugging hippies thought those engines were leading to green house gases and depleteing the ozone. and now the steel that was once used here on the old school machines. is now being imported from globaly sourced vendors. the engines are now made oversees because of labor costs here. so anybody that does not know anything about the old dinosaurs that still roam the frozen tundras. is forced to go to some big box store every couple of years to get a new 1. for reasons of lack of maintance or just runs it into the ground. but that works in favor for manufactures which know that they will always have a product to sell to the unsuspecting masses. I don't know if it is cheaper to make machines then keeping a parts line going for the years that have gone before us. maybe it is because of the retooling of all the machines. I remember that Penske racing was going to buy up Saturn from GM. but they decided not to after finding out they would have to set up a parts replacement manufacturing line. which included those plastic door panels and all those other goofy parts they used. plus people feel the need for change every few years like a new car, house, or even a new improved spouse. AND THAT IS ALL THE MORE I AM SAYING ON THIS 1.:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:*


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## pearlfinish (Oct 25, 2016)

You guys do realize that our kids, and grandkids will be looking at our current snowblowers and lawn mowers the same way in 20 years.


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *You really want to know what happened to them???? Where should I start first off they had to start making them more safety features. then the EPA got involved because all those tree hugging hippies thought those engines were leading to green house gases and depleteing the ozone. and now the steel that was once used here on the old school machines. is now being imported from globaly sourced vendors. the engines are now made oversees because of labor costs here. so anybody that does not know anything about the old dinosaurs that still roam the frozen tundras. is forced to go to some big box store every couple of years to get a new 1. for reasons of lack of maintance or just runs it into the ground. but that works in favor for manufactures which know that they will always have a product to sell to the unsuspecting masses. I don't know if it is cheaper to make machines then keeping a parts line going for the years that have gone before us. maybe it is because of the retooling of all the machines. I remember that Penske racing was going to buy up Saturn from GM. but they decided not to after finding out they would have to set up a parts replacement manufacturing line. which included those plastic door panels and all those other goofy parts they used. plus people feel the need for change every few years like a new car, house, or even a new improved spouse. AND THAT IS ALL THE MORE I AM SAYING ON THIS 1.:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:*


well thats a pretty epic rant :icon-clapping-smile


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

pearlfinish said:


> You guys do realize that our kids, and grandkids will be looking at our current snowblowers and lawn mowers the same way in 20 years.


you mean once the robot snowblowers take over and we just hit a button on a remote and they go blow the driveway and we sit in the living room and watch out the window with hot coco?


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## pearlfinish (Oct 25, 2016)

Snowbelt_subie said:


> you mean once the robot snowblowers take over and we just hit a button on a remote and they go blow the driveway and we sit in the living room and watch out the window with hot coco?


Hahaha ya something like that!!!

Only if I had $50,000 to invest in a heated driveway now....


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

pearlfinish said:


> You guys do realize that our kids, and grandkids will be looking at our current snowblowers and lawn mowers the same way in 20 years.


i doubt that very much ...how many of these thin metaled blowers with chinese engines are even going to be around in 20 years? 

i look on craigslist in my city and can find 10+ running ariens blowers from the 70's that are 45+ years old.


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## a1411832 (Dec 19, 2016)

Snowbelt_subie said:


> i look on craigslist in my city and can find 10+ running ariens blowers from the 70's that are 45+ years old.


I guess they are replacing it with another Ariens to last another 45.


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## Goofyexponent (Sep 26, 2016)

I hear ya there.

I have a 2988 Ariens ST828.....it weighs in at around 325 pounds.

You can walk up to the machine and gram one side of the front of the bucket and lift up. The machine will not flex as the metal is fairly thick.

Try that with any new machine in any department store.

And the power of the new machines does not seem to be there either.

My neighbor has a brand new craftsman 10/28 and it will not toss snow nearly as well as my Ariens 8/28 that is 29 years old.

And as old as she may be, I can walk into the local dealership and pick up/order parts no problem at all.


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## HogdogJoe (Oct 20, 2016)

Plastic gets a bad rep' around here. 

But when done well plastic is a superior material for certain parts. Let's consider the chute for example. People around here judge plastic ones as being "lower quality" (even the Toro ones). But in reality metal chutes are subject to rust, paint chipping, salt corrosion, and when they get super cold snow/ice sticks to them. 

There are certain things that should be metal, like the frame, this is to withstand the torque being placed on it by the engine. Ditto with the auger blades and scraper bar. They have to be metal to withstand excess pressure. 

But people around here act like if a snowblower has any plastic on it at all that that is just a cost cut. When in reality plastic is the optimal material for the work that snowblowers do, it just isn't realistic to use it on all surfaces because the plastic version of the metal component would be too thick. 

Old snow blowers that are posted here are just an example of survivor bias. For every 45 year old Ariens that is posted here (most of which sat in someone's garage unused for the vast majority of that time), there are tens or hundreds that got thrown away after rust ate through the housing or seized up the auger blade. 

Plus that "evil EPA" are the ones who help keep the US from looking like China with smog covered cities and children born with asthma and heart issues. Not to mention that modern snowblower engines get far more MPG than older beasts, and produce less toxins which may harm YOUR health. 

I guarantee that if someone produced an all metal, made in the USA, no bells or whistles, that weighed 350 pounds, cost $4K, and ate through fuel like crazy creating clouds of black smoke, almost nobody would buy it and reviewers would tear it apart.

My point is: I like the direction snowblowers have gone. I expect many of the more modern ones with plastic parts to last a decent number of years, and when they do finally die it will be rust that kills them rather than the plastic failing. Sure, bad chinese engines and ethanol fuel is problematic, but that too will resolve itself in time as more engines have carburetors calibrated for 10% ethanol as standard.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

HogdogJoe said:


> Old snow blowers that are posted here are just an example of survivor bias.


Except that's really not true..
I can see it for myself, from 8 years of checking out Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse NY Craigslist looking at *all* used snowblowers for sale.

Of course its true that many of the older 1960's, 70's and 80's snowblowers have gone to the great beyond..
but..
The "survivor rate", as a percentage of total made, is MUCH higher for the older machines..
just looking at snowblowers for sale proves that.
Lots of 1970's snowblowers around, not much MTD and Craftsman from the 90's around.

Its pretty clear from my observations over the past several years that its really an undeniable fact that the older ones last much longer than the newer ones.
and many people seem to think that overall quality of today's machines is "the same" as it was 40 years ago..
that is also clearly false, people see it for themselves all the time just by comparing old vs. new machines in person.

Scot


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

HogdogJoe said:


> Plus that "evil EPA" are the ones who help keep the US from looking like China with smog covered cities and children born with asthma and heart issues. Not to mention that modern snowblower engines get far more MPG than older beasts, and produce less toxins which may harm YOUR health.
> 
> My point is: I like the direction snowblowers have gone.


My point is i dont that is why i created this thread.

The epa stuff you said is a little dramatic. death by snowblower toxins? that would be a first i think.

the epa isnt a bad thing when they are keeping manufacturing plants from billowing out smoke and dumping toxins. but when i want to adjust the mixture on my snowblower carb they need to stay the heck out of it.


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## HogdogJoe (Oct 20, 2016)

sscotsman said:


> The "survivor rate", as a percentage of total made, is MUCH higher for the older machines..


You have absolutely no way of knowing that. 

You are checking CL and seeing listings for older machines and not younger machines. Maybe that's because people are happy with their defect free young machine and want to get rid of the old faulty rust bucket that is sitting unused in their garage. 



sscotsman said:


> and many people seem to think that overall quality of today's machines is "the same" as it was 40 years ago..
> that is also clearly false, people see it for themselves all the time just by comparing old vs. new machines in person.


People say the same thing about everything from washing machines, to cars, to TVs. The reality is that it is just survival bias. You only see the survivors, not the discarded. So you assume that things must have been better made back in the hayday, and everything is worse today. 

I'm not buying it. I'm sure people will be saying the exact same thing twenty years from now, how everything in 2016 is better made than 2036 because they purchased a commercial grade vintage 2016 Honda on CL for $300. But then like now, it is just humans only seeing the survivors and not seeing the ones at the landfill.


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## mrp116 (Oct 10, 2016)

I think a big part of it is also that people today are more likely to absorb the cost, or assume the debt, of a new blower over getting an older one fixed. If someone today took their 10 yr old machine in to be repaired and were told that the cost was going to be $300-$400 dollars vs. $1,000-$1200 for a new one, people now are much more likely to shrug off the $600-$700 difference, especially if they were offered free financing for six months or a year.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Hog dog Joe...no offence, but work on some old Ariens, Jacobsens, Toros, Simplicitys, etc....even Noma and MTD from the mid nineties and before, then work on the newer machines...no comparison. I've taken some really trashed Ariens that have been through ****, from the 60's and early seventies. All it takes is a carb rebuild or total points, condenser , and maybe mag....and except for a little "patina" like new machine. Take an Abused Ariens 10000 with a tecumseh with a blown engine from not checking oil for a dozen years.....a $100 Chonda, and better then new. I've done a couple of dozen Ariens that were not babied by any means from the late 60's to early seventies...and not had to do **** to the auger, bearings , transmission or paint. Same with the Toro's and Jacobsens. A light service and adjustment and back in business. Most of the MTD machines since 2000 are ROTTED, PLASTIC bushings destroyed, side panels deformed because the owner had the nerve to try and go into an end of driveway pile. Believe me...these are survivors for a good reason...


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

HogdogJoe said:


> People say the same thing about everything from washing machines, to cars, to TVs. The reality is that it is just survival bias. You only see the survivors, not the discarded. So you assume that things must have been better made back in the hayday, and everything is worse today.
> 
> I'm not buying it. I'm sure people will be saying the exact same thing twenty years from now, how everything in 2016 is better made than 2036 because they purchased a commercial grade vintage 2016 Honda on CL for $300. But then like now, it is just humans only seeing the survivors and not seeing the ones at the landfill.


sorry bud but your wrong. 

technology is better today no doubt.... but back then everything was made to last they didnt cut corners to save a buck. Now everything is cheapened up to save money on the overall cost of the product taking away from the overall quality.

it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this in any product take appliances refrigerators for example i just bought one and did a ton of research you can find it online refrigerators from the 70's averaged like 20 years of use compared to today is 8 years you are just in denial i think.


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## a1411832 (Dec 19, 2016)

Developments in technology kind of drive a product life-cycle. People are not happy with 15MPG automobiles, OEMs try to improve it by improving the fuel efficiency and reducing the gross weight.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

Gee where do I start? Hum....

Well as far as the salt and sand and all of the reasons for the machine to rust away, I could (not) disagree more. My machine is not rusting and falling apart. Maybe TLC is an answer... 

For one main reason. MAINTENANCE! And maybe in my case, serious overly anal maintenance. A quick story on my machines maintenance. Since I was a kid, there would be that one... late spring or early summer Saturday afternoon where my dad would say to me, "we are going to do the blower today". And under my breath I'd be saying... son of a f#@$%^&n [email protected]#^(&. And so on. I hated it guys. This is from 1971 until the present date. (I was 6 years old) By myself, I took over all of the duties about 10 years ago or so. I some how believe that the TLC that she has gotten over the 4 plus decades has been well worth the effort. Today I am so... glad my dad (made) me help him and what I LEARNED from him teaching me... A price can not be put on this... Thanks dad! :icon-bow: 

I think another thing that contributes to this is laziness where people do not want to repair and maintain things today. (No offense to anyone) Personally, I can not see why anyone who not pay $300-$400 for a repair and then spend $1000-$1200 for a new machine. Where is the logic in this? You'd be spending more then twice as much as the repair. But this is my opinion. 

Now with my machine, I have done a lot of work to her over the last 10 years or so and I know a lot of guys might not like what I have done to my machine. I am sure a lot of guys would have liked if I had left her stock. Well, with what my property throws at me, her being stock made my job a long drawn out affair. I could have bought a brand new Professional model, but with how my dad took care of our machine, I thought that she might deserve a little upgrading. And when I repowered her and figured that she wasn't original any longer, I decided to make some modifications. And I figured that who down the road would ever want an older Ariens machine that is limited with it's capabilities? She might not throw and take in as much snow as a new machine, but she is a lot better than she came off of the assembly line in 1971.

Now... on how a lot of guys talk about the metal being a lot thinner on the newer machines compared to the older machines, I do not know about this, because when my neighbor and I went over to a Ariens dealer in late fall, I looked at the new 36" Pro, I swear that the metal on the sides of the bucket were thicker than my 1971 machine. And if it wasn't, it was darn close. But... I think it was... thicker.

I know that today, things are made cheaper and faster where they are not made to last as long as things that were made decades ago, but... I think a lot that adds to this is lack of maintenance, care, pride and just the thinking of saying to yourself, hey if I want something to last, I have to put some TLC in to it and take care of it. 

Just my 2 cents...


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

+1 The proof is seen on the inside when one compares the design and materials. There's no point in repairing most new entry level blowers because the next "design to cost" component will soon break. Sure, that can be overcome with gentle use and preventative maintenance but what % will receive that?



cranman said:


> Hog dog Joe...no offence, but work on some old Ariens, Jacobsens, Toros, Simplicitys, etc....even Noma and MTD from the mid nineties and before, then work on the newer machines...no comparison. I've taken some really trashed Ariens that have been through ****, from the 60's and early seventies. All it takes is a carb rebuild or total points, condenser , and maybe mag....and except for a little "patina" like new machine. Take an Abused Ariens 10000 with a tecumseh with a blown engine from not checking oil for a dozen years.....a $100 Chonda, and better then new. I've done a couple of dozen Ariens that were not babied by any means from the late 60's to early seventies...and not had to do **** to the auger, bearings , transmission or paint. Same with the Toro's and Jacobsens. A light service and adjustment and back in business. Most of the MTD machines since 2000 are ROTTED, PLASTIC bushings destroyed, side panels deformed because the owner had the nerve to try and go into an end of driveway pile. Believe me...these are survivors for a good reason...


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## guyl (Jun 12, 2016)

The apparent contradiction between things getting both better and worse (as in cars...and snowblowers) is that today things are better engineered. Everything is calculated down to a science, making for the best efficiency and least weight. The flip side is that they also know just how much material (and which type) is required to perform minimally yet correctly, so cost cutting has also gotten easier through this increased knowledge. Meeting the desires of both durability and an attractive price point has become a balancing act. I think that with proper maintenance, the owner can manage to get the best of both worlds to a good degree. What is really being lost is the art of repair and maintenance in this increasingly throw-away world. Those who do maintain their stuff do it as an actual hobby rather than as a natural course of action, as used to be the case.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

*some* things are better engineered. Not all. When it comes to the automotive and appliance industry there is a lot left to be desired for the amount of $$$ we are paying for and the stupid failures we see on these things.


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## NMLHoldingsLLC (Dec 15, 2019)

Snowbelt_subie said:


> yea i suppose how you feel is probably the
> norm now. i am 32 but from talking to my dad and grandpa people used buy things that last pretty much a lifetime equipment . my grandpa has and still has a cub cadet riding lawn mower from 1969.
> 
> lately i have been coming across lots of 1970's ariens snow thro's (i buy and sell used blowers) still in good shape. i just find it hard to believe the new ones will last that long.


I think some of it is the design, engineering, etc.
Some of it is annual maintenance, preventative maintenance, storage and care.
And some of it is just stupid dumb luck

My dad still runs a POS MTD 7hp tracked machine from the early 1990s.
We went to college, he bought a machine when the free farm labor went away.
Probably cost $200-300 back then. Clearly not a real high-power or high end machine.

Update-
Almost 30 years old.
Rusty, dented, blown God knows how much pea gravel, horse poop (we use it around the barns), and yes, actually some snow. Usually gets used for 1-2 hours during a storm.
I think my brother put an impeller kit on it.
I know we have put on a friction disk about every 10 years or so
I think it's had an oil change or at least some oil added over the years.
I have no assumptions about whatever crap gasoline my dad has used.
My dad can't spell PM and wouldn't know where to start.
At least it lives indoors in the shed and gets started with the electric start.

He was in the hospital during storm last week.
My brother went to clear snow at the farm - MTD broke a cable 5 minutes later.
We'll fix it. It will keep working.
It's ugly but it seems to get by.


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## NMLHoldingsLLC (Dec 15, 2019)

mrp116 said:


> I think a big part of it is also that people today are more likely to absorb the cost, or assume the debt, of a new blower over getting an older one fixed. If someone today took their 10 yr old machine in to be repaired and were told that the cost was going to be $300-$400 dollars vs. $1,000-$1200 for a new one, people now are much more likely to shrug off the $600-$700 difference, especially if they were offered free financing for six months or a year.


But also a function of the consumer.
I just posted about the 25-30 year old MTD track machine on our farm.
It broke again during the last storm but we fixed it.
Buy $50-100 of parts every few years and it takes a long, long time to come up to the price of a new $1000 + machine.
IF YOU'RE HANDY/ MECHANICALLY INCLINED (or have some spare time and youtube)
There's some balance between cheap, thrifty, resourceful, etc versus buying new.
But there's the peace of mind of knowing the machine you already have versus any (possible) new features/ benefits on a new machine as well as any unknown drawbacks.

That and a generation or 2 or 3 of idiots who have iphones but need AAA to change a flat tire.


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## NMLHoldingsLLC (Dec 15, 2019)

Kielbasa said:


> Gee where do I start? Hum....
> 
> Well as far as the salt and sand and all of the reasons for the machine to rust away, I could (not) disagree more. My machine is not rusting and falling apart. Maybe TLC is an answer...
> 
> ...


Yeah.
What this guy said.

My dad didn't teach my brother and I a lot about preventative maintenance - great guy, hard worker, but mechanically inept.

Fortunately we learned from my Grandad and his estate. He died when I was 2.
When selling out my grandmother's side of the estate 25 years later, Grandad's stuff was still immaculate. Greased. Lubed. Oiled. Put away right.
And clean your stuff. And fluid film your blower - may look greasy/ oily, but oil and grease doesn't rust.
Be like Grandad.


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## Ian Ariens 924 (Dec 22, 2015)

I have owned lots of blowers, I fix and sell them .I started at age 12 with an Ariens 7 hp 24” did the neighbourhood.
Last 10 years has been an 1978 Ariens 10/32, now I’m onto a 1028 with hand warmers and an estart with on board battery even has a light.

I believe its all about selling price point, you can’t sell any of the above new, at that quality and strength of metal for $599

Alot of new snowblowers have nice features but when they break, it’s off to the metal recyclers and buy a new one

I can keep my old 10/32 going forever, with regular maintenance
If you want a late 70’s type snowblower you have to go to the commercial line dealer and dig deep.


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## Fat City (Feb 11, 2017)

Not to argue, but the problem isn't thickness, but rather steel type . The old cars used a softer metal, to hold its shape, thicker metal was used . The old steel had a high oxygen content, and resisted rust . High Strength Steel has more tensile strength, so a thinner thickness can be used for the same structural strength . The problem is, High Strength Steel has a low oxygen content, and readily absorbs moisture, causing rust out failure . In the old days, real primer was applied, baked, and real paint went on to the cured primer . This resulted in a tough, rust resistant, finish . Modern steel is powder coated, which hides poor prepping until the coating fails, revealing a rusty potato chip, on that plastic smooth finish .


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## Huntergreen (Sep 24, 2017)

Fat City said:


> Not to argue, but the problem isn't thickness, but rather steel type . The old cars used a softer metal, to hold its shape, thicker metal was used . The old steel had a high oxygen content, and resisted rust . High Strength Steel has more tensile strength, so a thinner thickness can be used for the same structural strength . The problem is, High Strength Steel has a low oxygen content, and readily absorbs moisture, causing rust out failure . In the old days, real primer was applied, baked, and real paint went on to the cured primer . This resulted in a tough, rust resistant, finish . Modern steel is powder coated, which hides poor prepping until the coating fails, revealing a rusty potato chip, on that plastic smooth finish .




Great info.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

And some of it is the market driven by big box mentality, cheaper, and cheaper. A case in point:
In 1998 I bought a Toro 3000 GTS, with the Suzuki engine and electric start. About $750.
Now, 21 years later you can buy the top of the line Toro single stage, with a more powerful engine, weighs in at 20 lbs more, for the same money. So what's changed? Quality! by rights allowing for inflation it should cost much more if everything was the same quality. But it doesn't and it ain't! That's why I kept this one so long. I don't mind putting some money into it every 5 years or so. I can't stand spending good money on something that looks cheap and the plastic on modern Toros does not impress me. Nor do made in China engines.


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## broo (Dec 23, 2017)

In my opinion, this is also in part due to customers. I believe today's machines CAN last pretty long, but very few people actually want to maintain them so they can last.


My late 90s Craftsman works ok for now, but I doubt I'll still use it in 15-20 years even if it gets there in good working order. As it gets older, so will I and I will certainly want something lighter so handling it is easier. This Craftsman is pretty heavy.


At work, we use only flat screen LCD computer monitors. Depending on the quality, they all fail within 2 to 8 years. My employer has about 10 companies in different complementary fields, but my building has the oldest monitors. Why ? I'm the only guy that fixes them. Others throw them away and pay $100+ to replace each one. A few years ago, after our first LCD monitors failed, I decided to open one up to try and diagnose it. I do have an electronics degree, but haven't really put it to use for 20 years and therefore forgot a lot of it. However I discovered that 9 out of 10 times the faulty part is one or a few capacitors that cost a few pennies each. The first time it took me an hour and a half of work, but nowadays they get fixed in 15 minutes. We saved a LOT of money as I repaired countless ones over the years.

But how many people actually fix things instead of replacing the entire unit ? This way of thinking certainly got lost in the last decades.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

broo said:


> In my opinion, this is also in part due to customers. I believe today's machines CAN last pretty long, but very few people actually want to maintain them so they can last.
> 
> 
> My late 90s Craftsman works ok for now, but I doubt I'll still use it in 15-20 years even if it gets there in good working order. As it gets older, so will I and I will certainly want something lighter so handling it is easier. This Craftsman is pretty heavy.
> ...



Yes.......maintenance does help! And at other times such as a monitor, it begs to be thrown out. I had an 18’’ monitor on my desk for years which I gave to my grandson when I replaced it a couple of years ago with a 32’’ TV for a monitor so I could view more windows on the screen. That TV came from my boat where I replaced it with one with a higher definition for better viewing.

IT SUCKS!

The definition on large screens is important when reading numbers... is that an 8 or a 6, is that a 5 or a 7? Yeah the TV remains my monitor as I type but it ain’t got much life there (king’s English)! Sometimes I have to use my printer to be sure of the numbers being shown.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

My Troy-Bilt 42050 snow blower was purchased in Dec 2000 and I recall it cost around $800. That $800 is worth about $1,200 today. There is no new snow blower I can find for $1,200 that matches the thickness of steel and quality of my Troy-Bilt. This was one of the last Gardenway Troy-Bilt snow blowers before they went bankrupt. I looked at the Toro Professional for $2,300 and the steel is not as thick as my Troy-Bilt.


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