# Water in engine oil



## Firefighter (Nov 10, 2018)

New Deluxe 28 306cc
Glitter on dip stick, grey frothy oil, unit has never been used and went straight from delivery to the garage!
Auth. Dist. Says, “water entered through the muffler because the manufacturer,Ariens, ran the engine and it stoped in the exhaust cycle” providing a path to the engines interior.:surprise:
Guys, some of you may be picking yourselves off the floor at this point wiping tears from your eyes and maybe some of you are saying that makes sense. I’d love to get your collective opinions on this because it makes no sense to me!??


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

my guess.......its not new, its a return sold again as new.


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## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

Left outside in rain on display????


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Possible condensation. You just need to run it for a little while till all the moisture burns out. But, it wouldn't hurt to change oil. I'd probably change the oil for peace of mind.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

If you keep it, *definitely* change the oil. You get the glitter out, and the contaminated oil out. That extra oil change isn't the place to save $3 after buying a nice machine.

PS- I'm skeptical of their explanation. Stopping with a valve open shouldn't give you appreciable water in the engine, unless it was also out in the rain, with a way for that to get through the exhaust.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

.

Drain it pronto!

Who knows how much water is really in the sump

oil is cheap

.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I'd be asking for another unit. Peroid. Let them worry about their excuse being valid or not. This will be in the back of your mind the whole time you own it.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

Firefighter said:


> Auth. Dist. Says, “water entered through the muffler because the manufacturer,Ariens, ran the engine and it stoped in the exhaust cycle” providing a path to the engines interior.:surprise:


That is 100% pure bovine excrement. (Trying to keep it more or less family-friendly here.)

I'm betting nwcove is correct and it was used and returned. Even if the manufacturer did start it for a bit they wouldn't have kept it running long enough to get glitter in the oil. It's not like they have a lot of spare time on their hands to fool around with the new machines.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i would agree with the others about trying to get the machine replace with another machine. water may or may not hurt things but with how much you paid for a brand new machine you would expect no issues and water in the oil is a pretty big issue especially if it has been sitting like that all summer. water always sits on top and i would worry about rust or corrosion damage in the engine or having engine issue in the future. the glitter is normal which is why you are usually suppose to do an oil change after the first 10 or so hours to empty the break in oil/metal.


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## Firefighter (Nov 10, 2018)

Thanks all!
Ariens said I’m not entitled to return and replace based on this...I still can’t see how water could possibly get into the engine oil by way of the exhaust pipe, I mean the valve stems are sealed and the piston rings brand new...can water seep past the new piston rings due to the low viscosity of water?


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

IMM only way water got into the sump is though the fill plug/oil level tube, or from a load of contaminated oil as the machine was filled with the factory load. s
if you see it's already foamy it has been run and mixed, damage has been done from the diluted oil


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

My money is still on condensation.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Firefighter said:


> Thanks all!
> Ariens said I’m not entitled to return and replace based on this...I still can’t see how water could possibly get into the engine oil by way of the exhaust pipe, I mean the valve stems are sealed and the piston rings brand new...can water seep past the new piston rings due to the low viscosity of water?


ESCALATE IT! That's horrible service. No way this is acceptable. No way a new machine should be filled with water. 

Did you charge it? Reverse the credit card charge and let them chase YOU for the money. When you do that DOCUMENT everything.


No excuse.


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## Ferret (Oct 4, 2016)

Just a couple of things.
First on the thought of condensation. If this were the case, I would expect every machine that is stored in a non-climate controlled environment to have water in the oil. 
Second Ariens response to the problem. Message to Ariens: Do something about your poor dealership network! That was a big box answer to a customers problem.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

micah68kj said:


> My money is still on condensation.



Enough to make it foamy? I've dealt with a lot of boat lower units, since 1985 or so (my own boats) and I've seen what water can do to oil. It takes more than condensation to make a milkshake.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i would agree with the others that you may have to escalate things and contact ariens. if the water did enter through the exhaust then water was was most likely sitting on the exhaust valve, piston and rings as it squeezed its way into the crank case and if it sat like that long enough who knows what type of damage it could do. i would be a bit worried about it shortening the life of the engine.


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## ColdinMontana (Nov 18, 2018)

There is zero chance I would be keeping that machine. When I buy new, I expect and demand a new machine without existing issues. I would be dropping the machine off at the dealer, documenting it, and telling them to deal with my credit card company after I do a charge-back for defective goods.


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## toms (Nov 17, 2017)

Dealers usually have a cow when i tell them i want it in the box, and i will assemble it. I can usually find one that will give in, just not maybe my first dealer choice. At least i can take my time and assemble it correctly and install the correct amount of oil


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

I agree with the others to escalate it to Ariens, if they won't budge contact the credit card company and dispute the charge - I DO hope you charged it!

Retired fraud investigator here. This part is critical - there is a 60-day clock ticking, starting on the day of purchase, for you to initiate the credit card dispute. You can call them on the telephone but be aware that the phone call DOES NOT preserve your rights. That takes a written letter. If you call first that's fine, just refer to the case number they give to you during the telephone call in the letter so that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing at the cc company. The 60-day clock for initiating disputes stops as of the date of the postmark on your letter. Of course, keep notes, including dates, times, and names of everyone you interact with, and copies of all correspondence, both from you and that you receive.

What you a doing here is building a legal case for a lawsuit, although it won't go that far. But be prepared as though it would, that keeps 'em honest.

Follow the fine print on the back of your credit card statement, and send the letter to the address shown there, not to where you send the payments. You paid for, and deserve, a brand-new unblemished snow blower. You didn't get it. At best you got one that has been horribly mishandled, at worst a used one that was mistreated. Either is what is called a "material defect" in the product. And for the price of that snow blower, it might be worthwhile to talk to an attorney and find out what your options are if you meet a lot of resistance.

But I'm betting that when you dispute the credit card charge (I do hope you charged it) that should be the end of it.


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## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

ColdinMontana said:


> There is zero chance I would be keeping that machine. When I buy new, I expect and demand a new machine without existing issues. I would be dropping the machine off at the dealer, documenting it, and telling them to deal with my credit card company after I do a charge-back for defective goods.


I absolutely agree with what he said.

First thing I always do is take photos and/or vids, always and immediately, it's hard to argue with date/time and pictures. I'd also be documenting every call, every face/face and each persons name.

Keep one thing in mind, if you walk in with a beat red face, pushing blame and cursing, that person your talking to will shrug his shoulders, shut down and either walk away or say "can't help you" (I've witnessed it time and time again).

If you walk in looking focused, ask how their doing today, with a firm hand shake and direct eye contact (1st), pull out your phone and say "hey, I can really use your help here, I'm perplexed, I'm not quite sure, but this can't be right, take a look at this (pics), this can't be right, I could really use your help, I just spent good money on this machine", "everyone I spoke to recommended I come here to buy my machine, so I did", that you stand by what you sell", "I'm really concerned about internal rust, there's gotta be rust, it's been sitting 6 months - year before I bought it" (check DOM on sticker) Any decent human being will then go out of their way to resolve the issue (providing their a decent human being), if not then do what ColdinMontana said!


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

That engine ran a little. It's condensation. It's no big deal. Just change the oil and that machine will last 20 years if you take care of it.


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

Ferret said:


> Just a couple of things.
> First on the thought of condensation. If this were the case, I would expect every machine that is stored in a non-climate controlled environment to have water in the oil.
> Second Ariens response to the problem. Message to Ariens: Do something about your poor dealership network! That was a big box answer to a customers problem.


Perhaps the store ran it outside . It got cold and the motor was not fully warmed up. It's only a quart of 5W-30. Just change the oil and be done with the worries.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

in my long years as a master auto tech.i've rehabbed many a flood car and machine. 

so from what i'm reading,i would have a used oil analysis to get a proper explanation of what's going on. the test would tell how much water, how much metal, amount of dilution


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

33 woodie said:


> in my long years as a master auto tech.i've rehabbed many a flood car and machine.
> 
> so from what i'm reading,i would have a used oil analysis to get a proper explanation of what's going on. the test would tell how much water, how much metal, amount of dilution



excellent points.


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## Ferret (Oct 4, 2016)

WVguy said:


> I agree with the others to escalate it to Ariens, if they won't budge contact the credit card company and dispute the charge - I DO hope you charged it!
> 
> Retired fraud investigator here. This part is critical - there is a 60-day clock ticking, starting on the day of purchase, for you to initiate the credit card dispute. You can call them on the telephone but be aware that the phone call DOES NOT preserve your rights. That takes a written letter. If you call first that's fine, just refer to the case number they give to you during the telephone call in the letter so that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing at the cc company. The 60-day clock for initiating disputes stops as of the date of the postmark on your letter. Of course, keep notes, including dates, times, and names of everyone you interact with, and copies of all correspondence, both from you and that you receive.
> 
> ...




Please follow this advise. This may be the only solution to your problem.


Some of the other solution suggestions I've seen are from people that have lost their mind. It seems that is easy to for them to give half-baked solution when you are the one that will suffer the consequences.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

excellent points from both of you. that plus a oil analysis to prove to them it was contaminated from the get go


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## strtch5881 (Oct 6, 2018)

I've never seen condensation affect the oil that bad. I agree that it is a refurb from a flood. Probably a rush job cleaning it and testing it. Never know, management might have given the person 2 days to go through 50 machines.


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