# New Member with an Old Simplcity S4



## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forums.

I've been looking for an old Simplicity for a year or so now, I think the are fascinating looking machines and the old stuff is very cool. Well one went up for sale for $50 nearby and I decided to pounce on it. 

Its a Simplcity S4. The tag says 006836 and the Briggs engine is 100202 0180-01 7205247, so that puts it at May 24, 1972.

The owner said it hadn't be run in a few years, although it did cough over when he shot starting fluid in the carburetor. It had old gas in it so I was ready for a fun time.

I got it home and looked at the tank more closely after emptying it. This is what greeted me:










Worse than what I thought. I fix lawn mowers as a hobby but I've got no spare parts for snowblowers. I decided to try saving the tank. Initially I was going to try Evap-O-Rust, which I have used but to takes quite a while. I've heard of using gravel to break the rust loose, but to me that wouldn't solve the underlying problem. Then I saw a video where the guy used Muriatic Acid and in about ten minutes his rusty tank looked nearly new. I found out that my local hardware store carries Acid Magic, which is a muriatic acid replacement and much safer for your skin (supposedly won't harm skin, but I wore protective gear anyway). I filled the tank all the way up and let it sit for a half hour, drained it, then filled it about halfway and let it sit a bit longer, agitating occasionally. I'll have to get some photos, because the difference is incredible.The tank is almost all bare metal inside with only a few small black spots remaining. I couldn't believe how well it worked.

I cleaned the carburetor up and replaced the diaphragm , and replaced the old spark plug. 

At this point, with the choke pulled out, it seems to want to cold start first pull and I've actually had it running for a few seconds before it died. I haven't been able to get t to stay running though. I'm not sure if I need to go back and clean the carburetor out some more, or perhaps I put the linkages back on wrong or something.

I've run into another minor problem. The recoil broke. I figured it would have been the spring but it turns out the aluminum pulley broke where the spring is held in place. I'll have to get a new one, hopefully the small engine shop has them in stock.

I really want to get this running and then get it cleaned up. Its in really good shape I think, very little rust except for some in front of the chute which i plan to touch up. It's a super solid machine, built like and weighs as much as tank. I am curious how this single stage snowblower performs in the snow. If I get it running well then I'll find out soon enough.

Anyway, a few photos!


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I have heard that after you clean the tanks like that you need to use some kind of sealer on them or else they will rust right back up.

If the flywheel has a large nut on it and you are careful you could get away with drill starting it.


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## GAR (Nov 7, 2014)

Welcome from the mitten state:welcome: That is one cool Looking Simplicity, I have never thought of using Muriatic acid to clean out a old tank. Thanks for sharing that tip.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Shryp said:


> I have heard that after you clean the tanks like that you need to use some kind of sealer on them or else they will rust right back up.
> 
> If the flywheel has a large nut on it and you are careful you could get away with drill starting it.


Well the video I saw the guy recommended after rinsing it with water then gasoline to coat it in a bit of oil. What I did was after rinsing with water then gas, I rinsed with with my 2cycle gas mix and shook it up really good, then dumped and rinsed a couple more times with straight gas. There's currently only a bit of fuel in the tank but the sides are rust free a day later.


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Welcome to SBF, and thanks for that great first post about your Simplicity. I've used muratic acid on tanks myself, and tried CLR on a few that aren't too badly rusted. I've done a three part system called Kreem that has worked well on motorcycle tanks.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*ALOHA from the paradise city.:smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027:*


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Thanks!

Here's a what the inside of the gas tank looks like now:


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

I was kinda mad today. I had looked up the engine and got a part number for the starter pulley. Called and had the small engine shop set it aside, grabbed it after work, got home, took the blower housing off, only to discover that the new pulley is way to big! By then I didn't have time to go back to the shop before they closed, so now it will have to wait until tomorrow. >:/

With that plan down the drain, I decided to pull the carburetor and go through it again. I had forgot to remove the jet and clean it, so I figured I might as well go over it again. Turns out I missed some passages and by the time I was done I had a brown stained carb spray on the rag under the carburetor. Hopefully it will start and run this time. Since I wasn't going to be able to try tonight, instead I cleaned off the tank, cap air filter housing, and breather rube then paint them with engine paint. I'll have some photos tomorrow but the parts look so much better now. I plan to paint the blower housing too once the pulley is reinstalled and the machine is running.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

I discovered there was still some rust at the top of the tank and it was flaking off, so I used WD-40 Rust Remover (similar product to Evapo-Rust) and soaked the tank overnight upside down in a bucket Rinsed it really well then put the tank and carburetor back together.



















Put it back on the motor...wouldn't start. Took the new plug I had put in out and found it was black, so I cleaned it and sprayed a shot of carb spray in there. Took a while but it finally started and ran. Had to shut it off because I realized I had forgotten to tighten the carburetor mounting bolts. Oops! Started it back up and adjusted the carb, and it runs great! No smoke, and runs smooth. To my delight, everything works on it! Very happy with the results.

I cleaned it up a bit, its really not in bad shape at all, most of the paint is still decent besides in front of the chute, which I'll touch up. Going to repaint the blower housing before putting all of the covers back on. The only real problem I can see using this machine is that you have to remove the two covers to fill the gas tank, and with the gas can I have, I need to remove the filter to have barely enough room to fit the spout in. Can't have it all I guess. 





































Going to show how overbuilt these old machines are, I count three grease fittings on it. Seems like it was greased regularly as all three had grease covering the fittings.

By the way, what weight oil do these old Briggs engines use? 5w30?


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Tried to cold start it today, fired up on the first pull.


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## rut3556 (Feb 13, 2014)

These are neat old machines. I serviced mine yesterday and it started on the 3rd. pull.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

You're looks very nice!

How are they in the snow? I'm really curious, it being a single stage, albeit a heavy duty single stage snowblower. 

Now that the engine is all sorted out, I pulled off the blower shroud, removed all of the paint, and repainted it. I also started grinding down the rust in front of the chute. I'd like to paint that before it gets too cold. Besides that, I just need clean the covers, put them back on, and give it an oil change. What do you use in yours? I was thinking either 10w30 or 5w30...


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## rut3556 (Feb 13, 2014)

>>How are they in the snow? I'm really curious, it being a single stage, albeit a heavy duty single stage snowblower<<

I wish I could tell you, but I have yet to try it out myself. I bought it on a "lark" last year for cheap money, but never got a chance to use it. (I have others) Hopefully I'll get to try it out this winter though. Somewhere on this forum there's a video of one in action, and it seemed to work quite well, considering what it is.

And as for oil, I suspect it's running some sort of 10-30 4 stroke oil. Any of them will do the trick.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

rut3556 said:


> >>How are they in the snow? I'm really curious, it being a single stage, albeit a heavy duty single stage snowblower<<
> 
> I wish I could tell you, but I have yet to try it out myself. I bought it on a "lark" last year for cheap money, but never got a chance to use it. (I have others) Hopefully I'll get to try it out this winter though. Somewhere on this forum there's a video of one in action, and it seemed to work quite well, considering what it is.
> 
> And as for oil, I suspect it's running some sort of 10-30 4 stroke oil. Any of them will do the trick.


We'll find out soon enough then!

Today the starter housing went back on, as did two of the three covers.





























Changed the oil, 10w30 it is. 

Finally, I removed the rust from in front of the chute and painted it. I went with Chevrolet Orange-Red engine paint. Its a really close match! Ended up painting most of the front end. Looks so nice now! I removed the small belt cover so I could paint it separately. Its not a full restoration by any means, but it sure freshens it up!





































I've run into a small problem as I forgot how the recoil cover mounts to the engine. There's a screw for the bottom and a bracket that screws into the cover, but I forget how it mounts to the engine...oops.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Well here she is, all back together. I elected not to repaint the covers as the black ones are in good shape, and I don't have an off-white color handy for the other cover and chute. I did clean them up though. All that's left is to pick up a set of skids for it.

Here's where we started:



















Here's where we've ended up:














































As a point of comparison, the orange part of the chute wasn't painted, I left it alone and just cleaned it up, the bucket was. It's not 100% exact, but it is very close, certainly close enough for me.


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## Bob Cat (Jul 15, 2014)

Nice little beast you have there.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

wow ! the old girl looks great ! glad to hear you have it running. dont want to wish for snow, but if you get some, plz post pics, or a vid of it doing what it was built for.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Love it! Great job! What a beast!


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Well we finally got our first measureable amount of snow, and what a mess! About 3 inches of heavy wet snow with a coating of ice on top of it. Before work I took the Simplicity for a spin. Started up and ran well. I needed to get the car out of the driveway so I tackled the mess of slush piled there courtesy of the city plows.

My initial observations are this: the machine itself seems like an excellent design, as at no point did the chute ever clog. The 2006 Craftsman 5/24 2-stage would have constantly clogged up.

However, its woefully underpowered for this stuff, as the engine stalled several times unless I literally inched forward. On the other snow/ice it was alright. Once I finished the end of the driveway Is tarted to tackle the rest of it, but then I ran out of gas. This is where the problem started. 

I filled the tank with gas and went to start it, only to find it wouldn't stay running unless the choke was fully on. I put it away because I had to go to work.

I just got home a little while ago and because temperatures dropped below freezing the snow was now mainly ice. However I got the snowblower started up again, but it'll only run on full choke. I did manage to get the rest of the driveway and walkways cleared, which considering what it had to deal with was pretty impressive.

I'm just not sure why it only stays running on full choke after it ran out of fuel. Maybe the carburetor needs to be adjusted, but why would it need to be now?


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

glad that you got a chance to finally use the machine!

that's a restored tank...I wonder if some additional rust/crud broke free and found it's way into your carb.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

classiccat said:


> glad that you got a chance to finally use the machine!
> 
> that's a restored tank...I wonder if some additional rust/crud broke free and found it's way into your carb.


That's exactly what happened. I pulled the carburetor off today and found some debris in the little bowl that short tube sits in. Cleaned that out. Took the carburetor apart and found the passage coming from the long tube where it meets the diaphragm plugged with crud! Cleaned it all up and put it back together. Had to adjust the carburetor a bit but she runs great again! Just have to make sure it cold starts fine tomorrow. 

I couldn't see any more debris in the tank itself, so maybe I got it all. I'd love to just get a new tank but they cost more than the whole machine did!


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

hanyoukimura said:


> That's exactly what happened. I pulled the carburetor off today and found some debris in the little bowl that short tube sits in. Cleaned that out. Took the carburetor apart and found the passage coming from the long tube where it meets the diaphragm plugged with crud! Cleaned it all up and put it back together. Had to adjust the carburetor a bit but she runs great again! Just have to make sure it cold starts fine tomorrow.
> 
> I couldn't see any more debris in the tank itself, so maybe I got it all. I'd love to just get a new tank but they cost more than the whole machine did!


Glad you found the root cause! Perhaps add an inline fuel filter if you haven't already.

EDIT: went back and realized that the carb is built into the tank...no way of filtering.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

The carburetor comes off, but the long tube goes right to the bottom, I don't think there'd be clearance for a filter and a tube would probable kink.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

It sounds like a tank mounted carb. If so, then to make sure you get all the crap out, you'll need to remove the tank and carb, carefully draining off the fuel. Then I would let the tank evaporate over a day or two. 

After that, wash it in the hottest water that you can. Soap would help. Then, I would heat the tank up, in the safest way that you can. An oven, if the wife doesn't freak out, or a propane grill that you can control the temp. I would use indirect heat, and a piece of aluminum foil to protect your cooking surface. 

180*F will do, but I would not go over 200*F. I would not recommend do this in an indoor gas oven. Just in case you did not get all the gas out.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

db9938 said:


> It sounds like a tank mounted carb. If so, then to make sure you get all the crap out, you'll need to remove the tank and carb, carefully draining off the fuel. Then I would let the tank evaporate over a day or two.
> 
> After that, wash it in the hottest water that you can. Soap would help. Then, I would heat the tank up, in the safest way that you can. An oven, if the wife doesn't freak out, or a propane grill that you can control the temp. I would use indirect heat, and a piece of aluminum foil to protect your cooking surface.
> 
> 180*F will do, but I would not go over 200*F. I would not recommend do this in an indoor gas oven. Just in case you did not get all the gas out.


It is tank mounted.










If you go back to the first page you'll see just how scary that tank was inside. Very scaly and rusted. I soaked it in muriatic acid then upside down in Evap-O-Rust (the WD-40 equivalent), and flashed it several times. Clearly there was some residual debris which doesn't surprise me. Considering what I started with, I'm amazed the tank is even usable now.

If it happens again, I'll have to do another round of cleaning, and I'll keep your method in mind, thanks!


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Ahh, sorry for rushing to the end. I might suggest using a small ultrasonic jewelry cleaner to truly knock out the small passages of the carb. It is also non-destructive, and completely reusable. I picked mine up through wally world online, and was right around $35. And if you have any other gas engines around, it's invaluable.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

I was going to do something similar to this (electrolysis) on my old Briggs. Cost is virtually $0. 






Then use the POR-15 fuel tank kit (degreaser + metal prep + POR-15 fuel tank sealer) however the cost for that kit is ~ $50. A brand new metal tank is only a little more so I bit the bullet and bought new.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Well, New England is missing out on this big storm, but we did get a few inches a week ago. I ran it through that with no problems, except that it kept catching on the driveway. I was going to get Armor Skids, but the nearest HD is like 40 minutes away, so I got a set of Arnold polyurethane skids. I like that they are much longer than the standard ones, and it did slide easily on the driveway once installed.














































And here are the old, likely original ones:










Not much left of them! Amazingly the scraper blade isn't damaged at all, so that's good.


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## rut3556 (Feb 13, 2014)

I like it. Gotta get me to Lowe's today!


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## MNIce (Jan 23, 2016)

I have one of these Simplicity S4's. My grandpa gave it to me 3 years when I moved into my house. She's old and weathered, but sure had taken a beating. I actually upgraded to a 2 stage Poulan Pro this year. I'd trying to fix the old girl up to get her to run a bit better before I part with her. I noticed your oil fill and probably the drain is different than the unit I have, would you mind showing some picture of what yours looks like. How much oil are you seeing yours takes as well. Thanks


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## rut3556 (Feb 13, 2014)

>>so I got a set of Arnold polyurethane skids.<<

Did these bolt up to your S4 readily or did you have to "Mickey Mouse" it? I need to put a set on mine.

Tnx...RUT


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

rut3556 said:


> >>so I got a set of Arnold polyurethane skids.<<
> 
> Did these bolt up to your S4 readily or did you have to "Mickey Mouse" it? I need to put a set on mine.
> 
> Tnx...RUT


Bolted up with no problem in less than 10 minutes.Only thing extra I did was put a little anti-seize on the threads.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

MNIce said:


> I have one of these Simplicity S4's. My grandpa gave it to me 3 years when I moved into my house. She's old and weathered, but sure had taken a beating. I actually upgraded to a 2 stage Poulan Pro this year. I'd trying to fix the old girl up to get her to run a bit better before I part with her. I noticed your oil fill and probably the drain is different than the unit I have, would you mind showing some picture of what yours looks like. How much oil are you seeing yours takes as well. Thanks


Sure, next time I have it out I'll get a couple photos of the dipstick and drain tube. It takes about a quart of oil. I put 10w30 synthetic in it.


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## rut3556 (Feb 13, 2014)

hanyoukimura said:


> Bolted up with no problem in less than 10 minutes.Only thing extra I did was put a little anti-seize on the threads.


Well, since it hit the mid 50s here in NH yesterday I took the opportunity to install the Arnold skids on my S4. I was able to pick the whole unit up with my bucket loader so the install was a piece of cake.  

But since we have no snow on the ground (a first!) I'm not sure if I'll get to even use it this winter!


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## rut3556 (Feb 13, 2014)

Well, we got about 5" snow today so I got to try out my S4 with new Arnold skids, and it worked "pissah"! Even had to blow a path to the generator and propane tank over not so frozen ground, and it did so without digging in once. So far, the skids are a rousing success. Great add-on for short money.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Been a while, but then not much happens with snow blowers of season!

Well first snow snow of the this winter came and went a couple weeks ago and I was without a working unit. 

The Simplicity decided it didn't want to start, the Jacobson I never got to work on, and the Craftsman we bought new in 2006 is so badly rotted that all that's holding the blower housing to the tractor is 2 bolts, the belt, hope, and dreams.










Shame too, because even after not being run in two years she fired right up. That little Tecumseh engine is a champ.

This past week the weather was decent, so I pulled the carburetor off of the tank of the Simplicity. Sure enough, there was bits of rust in the carburetor and the little bowl.

Cleaned up all out (again), and put it back together and she fired right up. As good as the tank came out from what it was, there seems to still be bits of rust I can't seem to quite get rid of the flakes off, gets in the tank and gets sucked up. At some point I'm going to need to get a replacement fuel tank I think. Shame new ones cost $80(!!). 

Hopefully she'll be ready to tackle the upcoming storm Thursday. She's working as of now.










One other minor problem is that two of the wing bolts worked themselves out and have gone missing. Can these be acquired anywhere?


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Great job!


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I'm betting that tank is available off of some pushmower used cheap.


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Tonight was the first time I was able to use it without any issues. Ran excellent with the choke where it should be and didn't stall once. 

In the areas that had previously been shoveled the heavy wet snow tended to pile up and compact until it built up enough for the auger to catch it. It clogged a couple times. Where the snow was deeper it had no problems, even at the slushy end of the driveway. This was very heavy wet snow, 2-4 inches of it I'd say.

I'll need to keep an eye for a replacement tank, but if I keep it from running empty hopefully it won't suck up anything. It was "clean" when I went over it last week and cleaned all of the debris I could find out of it. We'll see. I'm thrilled she worked well though. Would have taken a video but too dark for my phone.


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## Homkoguy (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm considering picking up one of these beasts. Would you recommend it? Are they adequate for 4-6" of snow?


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

Homkoguy said:


> I'm considering picking up one of these beasts. Would you recommend it? Are they adequate for 4-6" of snow?


Oh definitely. now that I've been able to run it without fuel delivery issues in a couple storms I haven't had any issues. If anything it prefers at least a few inches of snow on the ground to be able to grab onto it and toss it. No problems with the slushy stuff at the end of t eh driveway either. I'm interested in how it'll do in over 6" but still waiting for that opportunity. I'd image at some point the 3HP engine would feel overwhelmed, but 4-6 it can handle it.

More than that, I love the engineering that went into it. Its so overbuilt, and its nothing like any snowblower you can get today. I mean when was the last time you saw a single stage built like this?


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## hanyoukimura (Oct 16, 2015)

We finally got a substantial snow storm, 17+ inches on the ground!

It's light and fluffy, but that's still a lot of snow. I put the S4 to the test. getting it going was a bit of a pain, ah the old choke system. Once it was warmed up a bit it was fine though. It actually didn't do too bad! It did manage to clog itself a couple times when cutting through a full width of snow, but 1/2-3/4 width it seemed to do pretty well!

I did end up switching back to the Craftsman. Being two stage and having a more powerful engine meant that it was able to shoot the snow further and never bogged down. Still, I'm impressed that a single stage 3 hp snowblower was able to tackle a foot and a half of snow.


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## Homkoguy (Dec 7, 2016)

hanyoukimura said:


> Oh definitely. now that I've been able to run it without fuel delivery issues in a couple storms I haven't had any issues. If anything it prefers at least a few inches of snow on the ground to be able to grab onto it and toss it. No problems with the slushy stuff at the end of t eh driveway either. I'm interested in how it'll do in over 6" but still waiting for that opportunity. I'd image at some point the 3HP engine would feel overwhelmed, but 4-6 it can handle it.
> 
> More than that, I love the engineering that went into it. Its so overbuilt, and its nothing like any snowblower you can get today. I mean when was the last time you saw a single stage built like this?


Man were you ever right! Ended up buying the old simplicity and i was blown away! I was clearing my drive the other week and it went through snow so deep the chute was sticking out like a snorkel!


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## MassSnowblower (Oct 14, 2014)

Here is my S4 I saved from the trash. It works great after some maintainance


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

rut3556 said:


> >>How are they in the snow? I'm really curious, it being a single stage, albeit a heavy duty single stage snowblower<<
> 
> I wish I could tell you, but I have yet to try it out myself. I bought it on a "lark" last year for cheap money, but never got a chance to use it. (I have others) Hopefully I'll get to try it out this winter though. Somewhere on this forum there's a video of one in action, and it seemed to work quite well, considering what it is.
> 
> And as for oil, I suspect it's running some sort of 10-30 4 stroke oil. Any of them will do the trick.


5w-20 or 5w-30 for 20 degrees to -20 and beyond, 10w30 for zero to 100+. Here is the link to the operators and parts manual for the machine. Generally speaking 5w20 is a good oil to use in the winter,
its lighter a good thing for winter operation since its cold https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...ualSearch.html?searchrequested=100202-0180-99 
Those are 100200 series Briggs on the S4. The S5 has a 5hp. As far as how they work in the snow, the S4 doesn't throw to far 10 to 15 feet but, it will throw anything, slush, water, you name it they cant jam, a little silicone in the chute even better. The S5 throws around 25 feet and same thing cant clog them. For that reason they are great machine's. You throw an 8hp engine on one of those units you'll have a heavy duty machine that cant clog that will throw snow 40+ feet. I just got a 1968 S4 at the curb in excellent condition. Going to make a video shortly.
Here is a video of an S5 in action 



and the S4, go all the way to the end of the video, to see it in action.


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