# Synthetic oil change on an older GX240?



## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

I've got a tried and true GX240 on a Honda HS828 snowblower that has been through 24 seasons running Valvoline 5W30 dino oil for all of its life (after break-in). I am a fan of synthetic oil in my cars, but I don't know if I should use full synthetic after all these years of running dino.

I want to extend the life of this faithful engine as long as I can. I am most likely out of the loop in terms of oil science, but in the past, some have said not to use synthetic oil in small engines - especially after a life of regular oil - so I've stayed away.

In the last 2 years, about once in every 10 starts, I'll see a puff (or realistically, about 2-3 seconds) of white/blue smoke and it makes me wonder if the rings are getting tired...If I can stave off a ring/piston job with syn. oil that would be great - but it might be wishful thinking.

I don't know the hours on this engine, but it has been through a lot. 150" to 325" per year of heavy, wet snow. Sometimes, I'm clearing snow 5 times a week...and if I don't, we aren't getting out. Most of the time it's about twice a week.

It has been the most dependable motor I have ever had in over 35 years of small engine ownership (and over 45 years of _using_ small engines). Literally one pull starts everytime - except once - when my carb got plugged up with junk from the tank, and it still started after 4 pulls...just started backfiring and surging - and that was after 22 years of never a problem. Cleaned the carb and tank and back to business.

I want to treat it right and I'm not sure if a major change in oil will do it right...or mess it up [like leaking seals].

Thanks for any and all input.


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## uberT (Dec 29, 2013)

I've got a tired old Toro mower that does not like syn oil. It seems to cause a problem (at start up) with the rings sealing and blows a ton of oil for about 5 mins. It's pretty bad. Switch back to the recommended conventional 30W oil and the problem *instantly* disappears.

Alternate: try something like Motorcraft syn blend. That's a very good oil and will be more robust than a petro-based oil. OTOH, modern motor oils, regardless of base stock, are pretty darned good!


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

I'm pretty sure it won't hurt anything jrom, but I'm not sure it will fix your smoking problem either. It sounds like the old Honda doesn't owe you anything and maybe she's starting to get a little tired. I run synthetic oil in every engine that I own and consider it cheap peace of mind. There are those who say the extra expense is just not justified for small engines, to which I say 1/2 quart of oil once or twice a year I can afford.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

uberT said:


> Switch back to the recommended conventional 30W oil and the problem instantly disappears.


I will do this if I need to.




Blue Hill said:


> It sounds like the old Honda doesn't owe you anything and maybe she's starting to get a little tired. I run synthetic oil in every engine that I own and consider it cheap peace of mind. There are those who say the extra expense is just not justified for small engines, to which I say 1/2 quart of oil once or twice a year I can afford.


You are right, she doesn't owe me a darned thing. And as she ages, I've been slowing down a bit - instead of 45 minutes to clear my drive, it's now close to an hour...but overall, I don't mind as she's been one heck-of-a machine. Even though I don't have money to burn, I don't consider synthetic oil in an engine as an unjustified expense...I just don't want to make a minor issue (small amount of blow-by) a major problem by switching oils.

Thanks for the input.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

...and Blue Hill, Thank you for the Alberta Clippers that pass by you (and sometimes originate in Saskatchewan...oh yeah, the Saskatchewan Screamer) on their way to me – they make my winters very interesting...deep and white* 

*As opposed to the shallow, dirty stuff I grew up with


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## pdesjr (Feb 7, 2015)

It,s a little oil past the ring and probably some past the valve guides.Run the same oil and check the spark plug periodically Run it till it dies.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

I little puff on start up? My guess would be the valve seals have hardened. 

As for going syn oil, I tried 5w30 mobil one in my dad's 67 Tecumseh, It spit it out like a baby eating peas, went back to 10w30 dino, all has been ok.

I have syn in all my cars, My advice is keep using the dino or replace the valve seal (s). Highly doubt it's the rings.


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## ZOMGVTEK (Sep 25, 2014)

I put 5w30 M1EP into both my recently purchased 20 year old Honda blowers, since I didn't know what was in there and when it was changed. M1EP was all I had laying around in 5w30, but probably what I would have picked up anyways for the task. I've never thought much about switching to syn, it's never posed a problem.

I had quite a lot of hard use on one before this, and didn't notice any difference in its operation after the change. The more recent pickup I didn't have a lot of use before the switch, but it was clearly burning a bit of oil before based off the exhaust smell. I didn't notice any change afterwards, it still smelled a bit when it was cold. No noticeable smoke or appreciable difference on both. After some snow melted I got a jug of 2 stoke oil out of the hood of a PWC, so now I run a light premix in both blowers. I recently checked the level in the 828, and it appears to be right where I left it with no signs of fuel dilution. The 624 might be slightly lower, but really insignificant for the use.

Personally I wouldn't be worried at all about changing oils. However, whatever you were doing got you this far, so it can't be so bad.


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

jrom said:


> I've got a tried and true GX240 on a Honda HS828 snowblower that has been through 24 seasons running Valvoline 5W30 dino oil for all of its life (after break-in). I am a fan of synthetic oil in my cars, but I don't know if I should use full synthetic after all these years of running dino.
> 
> I want to extend the life of this faithful engine as long as I can. I am most likely out of the loop in terms of oil science, but in the past, some have said not to use synthetic oil in small engines - especially after a life of regular oil - so I've stayed away.
> 
> ...


 
Put the synthetic in. Preferably Amsoil. 
I would not put dyno oil in anything, not even my lawn mower or weed cutter. Synthetic is WAY BETTER. Change it out and don't look back. Using synthetic can't "mess is up". I've been running it in everything I own for the past 28 years. Tractor, chain saws, snowblowers, weed wacker, lawn mowers, dirt bike, cars, trucks, 2 strokes, 4 strokes. The cars I obtained with 90,000 on the clock, would run to over 220,000 on the clock using Amsoil, and still be running when I sold them at that high mileage. 
I've also opened up a few of those engines and looked inside at high mileage, the cam/lifters/lifter valley were like brand new with no sludge or varnish buildup at all. amazing.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Sound like it can go either way. If it was mine . . . I'd toss in a quart of full synthetic and give it a try. I run full synthetic in everything and the only one I have a problem with is my sears rider that smokes on a cold start dino or syn. Been like that since I bought it used.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

Synthetic or petroleum-based oils, either are just fine, as long as you follow these two rules:

1. Use SAE 5W-30.
2. Change the oil per the maintenance schedule; for residential snow blowers, Honda says once a year. Commercial users, every 100 hours. Don't buy into the hype you can extend the change interval "...'cause it is synthetic."


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

jrom said:


> ...and Blue Hill, Thank you for the Alberta Clippers that pass by you (and sometimes they originate in Saskatchewan) on their way to me – they make my winters very interesting...deep and white*
> 
> *As opposed to the shallow, dirty stuff I grew up with


You are so very welcome!  once we send them your way, they don't bother us anymore. We are so very happy to do our part.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Thanks everyone. Looks like I'll use either Amsoil or Mobil 1.

What I meant by "I'm not sure if a major change in oil will do it right...or mess it up." is (I've heard this in my early days of using sythnetic) that switching from dino oil to synthetic _could_ soften seals and thereby cause more leaking. Sounds like that may not be true.


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## uberT (Dec 29, 2013)

jrom said:


> ...
> 
> that switching from dino oil to synthetic _could_ soften seals and thereby cause more leaking. Sounds like that may not be true.


 The synthetic oils tend to be more aggressive cleaners. I guess the concern is putting it in a sludged up engine and freeing up all sorts of stuff could 'lead to leaks'.

It's not likely these engines are going to look like the inside of a car engine that's only had 4 oil changes by the time it reached 100k miles.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

scrappy said:


> I little puff on start up? My guess would be the valve seals have hardened...My advice is keep using the dino or replace the valve seal (s). Highly doubt it's the rings.


I'm leaning towards this being the case.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

uberT said:


> The synthetic oils tend to be more aggressive cleaners. I guess the concern is putting it in a sludged up engine and freeing up all sorts of stuff could 'lead to leaks'.
> 
> It's not likely these engines are going to look like the inside of a car engine that's only had 4 oil changes by the time it reached 100k miles.


That makes sense. I had a new (at the time) '97 Subaru Outback that I used Castrol Syntec for its life - after break in [and until they started blending dino with it] then I used Mobil 1 [about 30,000] - for close to 250,000 miles. I went through 2 head gaskets (2.5 Phase I engine...never again) and it was one of the cleanest (internally) high mileage engines I, and a dealer tech friend had ever seen. I'm sold on synthetic. For some reason, I didn't trust it for small engines...weird.


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## nycredneck (Dec 29, 2013)

If your engine has a problem now synthetic will not make it worse BUT it will not make it better.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

jrom said:


> I'm leaning towards this being the case.


 like button clicked.

I would replace the seal (s) before calling this a tired motor


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## RoyP (Oct 16, 2014)

jrom said:


> I've got a tried and true GX240 on a Honda HS828 snowblower that has been through 24 seasons running Valvoline 5W30 dino oil for all of its life (after break-in). I am a fan of synthetic oil in my cars, but I don't know if I should use full synthetic after all these years of running dino.
> 
> I want to extend the life of this faithful engine as long as I can. I am most likely out of the loop in terms of oil science, but in the past, some have said not to use synthetic oil in small engines - especially after a life of regular oil - so I've stayed away.
> 
> ...


Your engine has served you well with petroleum based oil, why change now. Synthetic oils are only for engines designed for it. Imagine that your oil is a cushion between moving parts, it's thicker then synthetic oil in your case that's what you want. The bearings in your engine were designed for a certain thickness oil film, now you put a thinner oil thickness in there.....that's going to create problems for you. Don't put Synthetic oil in there. It's not designed for it.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

jrom said:


> I've got a tried and true GX240 on a Honda HS828 snowblower that has been through 24 seasons running Valvoline 5W30 dino oil for all of its life (after break-in). I am a fan of synthetic oil in my cars, but I don't know if I should use full synthetic after all these years of running dino.
> 
> I want to extend the life of this faithful engine as long as I can. I am most likely out of the loop in terms of oil science, but in the past, some have said not to use synthetic oil in small engines - especially after a life of regular oil - so I've stayed away.
> 
> ...


Use Amsoil 10w 30/30 full synthetic in it, the oil will flow at -40F. That oil is a special blend made for small power equipment engines, it will say right on the bottle it is made for small engines.

You will get the little puff of smoke from using the 5w 30, that is normal. By switching back to the 10w 30 oil, a lot of the start up smoking should stop in the snowblower, and use straight 30 oil in a lawnmower that is run in the summertime, or use the special Amsoil 10w30/30.

The oil nowadays is much thinner that it used to be, to flow easier with less friction and power robbing to pump it through the engine, plus it doesn't have many of the good additives that the older oil used to have.

You will probably get another 24 seasons out of the GX series engine with the Amsoil, that's just a normal Honda GX engine.

If it was a GC engine, you might be lucky to only get about 5 seasons out of it, then throw the GC engine away. Those GC motors don't hold up at all, the longest I've ever seen them last was less than 100 hours or about 2 seasons under normal use from our fleet of equipment.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

RoyP said:


> Your engine has served you well with petroleum based oil, why change now. Synthetic oils are only for engines designed for it. Imagine that your oil is a cushion between moving parts, it's thicker then synthetic oil in your case that's what you want. The bearings in your engine were designed for a certain thickness oil film, now you put a thinner oil thickness in there.....that's going to create problems for you. Don't put Synthetic oil in there. It's not designed for it.


I hate to tell you that you are wrong there. Synthetic oils are designed for those engines. No engine was ever designed for just petroleum or synthetic oil, although Valvoline oil is not a very good oil.

Synthetic oil is a petroleum oil, it is chemically modified, many of them having the paraffin's removed that cause thickening and sludge buildup and cause the oil to breakdown much quicker.

Synthetic oils handle temperature extremes much better than standard petroleum oil, they handle the shock and extreme bearing loads and pressure much better than standard petroleum oils, the cushioning effects are by far better, they last much longer and are far better lubricating properties without all the additives. They withstand breakdown much better by having the molecules modified in them. They withstand acid breakdown and moisture contamination much better, and hold their viscosity much longer than standard petroleum oil.

Standard petroleum oils thin out too quickly, break down too fast and don't hold up under severe loading, have poor cushioning effects as compared to good synthetic oils. They leave deposits and sludge from the additives in them to help them do their job.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

pdesjr said:


> It,s a little oil past the ring and probably some past the valve guides.Run the same oil and check the spark plug periodically Run it till it dies.



It's a little oil past the valve guides on that. That happens with a light viscosity oil, they wont do that with straight 30 oil. 

The lawn mowers do that with 10w30 oil in the summertime, I've been working on Honda engines for over 30 years.

Switch to a good synthetic oil, heavier viscosity like 10w30 that will flow in extreme cold temps and it will help slow down or stop the little smoking at start up.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Run this oil. I bet it matches dino oil in viscosity at cold temps, and you will get the superb protection of Red Line synthetic.

Red Line Synthetic Oil - Motor Oil - 15W40 Diesel Motor Oil

.


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## clamdigger (Feb 12, 2015)

Anything you ever wanted to know about oil, and debunks a lot of "Old men's tales" about syn/dino pros and cons etc.
Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy - Bob is the Oil Guy
If you ever read the whole site, and understand it all, then you probably qualify for a BSc in lubrication or something!
Cheers


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

There is enough "BS" in oil going on already! !


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