# Why does packed snow stall me so much?



## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

I've had this problem with two snowblowers now. My previous 30 inch ~10 HP MTD unit which I owned since new for 25+ years could throw freshly fallen snow like a firehose. Even heavy, wet stuff. But when I'd run it into piled snow (like the piles that result from snow sliding off a roof) it would just stall in place, eat a hole in the snow in the shape of the augers, and not move forward. I would have to put some serious grunt into pushing it into the snow myself to make any progress at all.

So a couple of years ago I treated myself to a brand new Ariens Pro32. I figured the packed snow problem would be history, but nope! Same problem. I've read reports of people comfortably using these machines to blow away the ice berms caused by snowplows at the ends of their driveways, but there is ZERO chance either of my two machines would make any headway. An ice berm is way denser than the stuff I already can't move, and the only way I get rid of the "roof snow" now is to first break it up with a shovel so the machine can get into it.

It's not a traction problem. Yes, the tires spin but even with that I have to give it literally everything I have to get any forward movement. I generally have to shimmy it side to side, letting one side bite in first, then the other. Eventually it's too much work and I get the shovel, which is actually LESS work than manpowering the machine into these snow piles.

Other people don't seem to have this problem. What am I doing wrong? Is there some "Oh yeah, you're not doing such-and-such properly" trick that I'm missing? Two different machines, from two different manufacturers, spanning decades, makes me think it's ME and not the machines.

Thanks!


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

I take smaller bites, I don't try to get a bucket full.
But it is hard especially with my 5 horse Craftsman.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Yes, sure, I get that. But there's no way I could take a "big bite" anyway... I can barely get it to engage the packed snow with all the strength I can muster pushing it AND letting the wheels dig into the ground. As I said, sometimes I can make an inch of progress by shoving one side in, then the other, and basically nibble smaller widths that way but it's really slow going.

When I pull the machine back, there's a nice semicircular hole cut into the snow. You can easily see where the augers spin against it, polishing it very nicely.

Yes, I've confirmed that the augers are installed in the correct direction and are rotating in the correct direction. Nothing is bent or damaged.

I'd just chalk it up to "normal" except that I read here about people happily chewing their way through the snowplow ice berms at the end of their driveway. I figured getting a Pro-series Ariens with a nice big 13 HP engine was going to do that for me, but no luck. Same old stall-out as with my 25+ year old MTD machine.

For reference, the Ariens does throw everything else just fine. For some reason roof-fall snow just seems to present an impenetrable barrier to my snowblowers.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

The teeth on the Ariens auger look to be plenty aggressive. Maybe it's wheel traction issue? My tracked Honda chews right on through.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

As I said, it's true even when I push with everything I've got on the machine. I do have chains but honestly don't think it's a traction problem.

If I break up the snow first with a shovel, both machines grind it into powder and throw it dozens of feet. I just can't get any progress through the naturally fallen piles that form when it slides ~8 feet off of our metal roof.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Is it possible that your ariens has a sheared pin in the impeller housing??

The only other thing it could be is a slipping belt or belts.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I would second what leonz said ..... Or a worn or out of adjustment friction disc, or a sheared hub keyway, or something broke/cracked somewhere ... I have had up to 8 machines at one time, and never had an issue clearing end of driveway with any of them .... Unless of course something was broke, like a shear pin or roll pin ..... I do put XTrac on my machines when I wear out the Snowhogs.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

To bad you don't live near me ...... I would fix them for you, as they should walk through that stuff.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

The Ariens has done this since its *very first day* of operation. I'm the very first owner so nobody has abused it. This will be its third season, and in the two years it might have 25 hours on it total since new. I've popped a couple of shear pins but keep a ready stock on hand so I know what it's like when they go and how to replace them. Hard to believe anything is worn out on it.

I service it in detail in the spring before storage and haven't seen anything that looks out of place in the drivetrain.

Hard to believe that two machines, from two manufacturers, 25 years apart in manufacture, would have the exact same problem. That's why I figure I'm the problem and not the machines. I must be handling them wrong.

Remember, the Ariens handles fallen snow of any depth and density like a pitbull. Even going up hills. Throw distance is easily 40+ feet even for wet snow. It's just the stuff that self-packs when it falls off the roof that is the problem. Two out of two machines can't get through it, the augers just polish it up nice and smooth.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

whats the gap like between the impeller and housing? it might be worth trying the impeller mod on the mtd if you still have it and see if that makes any difference. mtd's usually have about 1/2" gap between the impeller and housing so it usually helps them greatly if it works for the mtd then may also be worth doing to the ariens.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

The MTD is gone now, I mentioned it to indicate the problem isn't specific to one machine 

The problem isn't getting the snow out of the impeller area, which is what the impeller mod improves. The problem is the machines seem unable to cut through the fallen, compressed snow.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i would say as long as it isn't frozen into a pile of ice the machine should throw it. also the performance improvement of the impeller mod is noticed everywhere including less of a working load being put on the engine when dealing with stuff like that since since it is cleaning the impeller housings better. that little bit of snow/slush that builds up in the impeller housing can cause enough load to make the engine stall if the belt is adjust right and the engine is not powerful enough to burn up the belt.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

I don't disagree, but my point was that the compacted snow isn't making it into the impeller area in the first place. If it's not in there, it cannot load the engine.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i can't say i have every had that issue. my snowblower has no problem moving anything other than ice


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

the stuff that falls off/shoveled off a roof is compacted more than regular eod stuff. i really wouldnt expect any walk behind blower to be good at moving it.


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## 4getgto (Jul 20, 2020)

nwcove said:


> the stuff that falls off/shoveled off a roof is compacted more than regular eod stuff. i really wouldnt expect any walk behind blower to be good at moving it.


I tend to agree. Wouldn't expect them to go thru a concrete wall either..
Maybe a little sarcasm but you get the picture..


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

As I mentioned, I have never had an issue snow blowing a cleared roof pack or end of driveway .,... If your machine is in good running order, then yes, it is certainly the operator.


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## Mr. JT Monk (Oct 27, 2020)

IDEngineer said:


> I don't disagree, but my point was that the compacted snow isn't making it into the impeller area in the first place. If it's not in there, it cannot load the engine.


I certainly agree that "avalanche snow" that falls off a roof or was thrown by a snow plow at the EOD is aggravating and tough stuff.
One thing I've leaned is to get at those kind of berm like piles as soon after that they are formed. Indeed, like avalanche snow the crystal structure of the snow is changed from light, flake like material to compacted denser structure. The longer it sits the more it takes a set and even can freeze into a concrete like mass.

When or if I can't get at a berm ASAP, I've found it works to take partial side ways swipes along the length of the berm rather than dive into it head on. At least to start with, shave maybe 1/4 to 1/2 the width of the bucket portions of berm and ease into it. At first, you won't get as much removed as you may like, but as the berm is shaved down it's length a few times, I usually find that I can take larger bites into it. Sometimes, its just best to stay with half or 3/4 of the bucket width even after underway. 

Once the berm has been eaten into on it's length a few swipes, sometimes you can then go into it at a perpendicular and slowly get a path or notch cut into it and progress accordingly.


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## PlOM (Nov 12, 2020)

IDEngineer said:


> I don't disagree, but my point was that the compacted snow isn't making it into the impeller area in the first place. If it's not in there, it cannot load the engine.


Exactly.

I have had your experience when clearing hard-packed plow berms that are wider than the auger, and often-times higher as well. 

My 28-inch MTD's 11.5 inch augers are smooth outer edge, but your Ariens has the serrated edge and should be able to cut through; indeed, the concave surface that they leave in the pile attests to that. It could probably slowly shave a block of ice _if it could advance into it_! 

What I think is happening is it's the auger housing that's holding it back. 

On my MTD, the outer limit of the auger itself is 1.5 to 2 inches in from the sides of the auger housing, and at the top it's a long way from the housing. When dealing with a hard, tightly-packed pile, the auger can chew into it, but it doesn't necessarily break up the pile beyond itself. In other words, it leaves the solid pile on both sides that the auger housing then is pressing against. There's nothing to break up that part of the pile because the auger doesn't extend wide enough or ahead of the sides. My MTD has vertical edges on the sides of the housing, so the whole edge is even with, if not ahead of, the auger.

Shimmying side to side, in effect, allows the housing edges to break into the hard pile, allowing the housing to advance and the auger to chew into the pile directly ahead of it. 

I found that in those instances, when I use a shovel, I don't have to break up the whole pile; only the areas that are beyond the width of the auger, so that the housing sides are pushing through even slightly-loosened material. The MTD then has no problem advancing.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

My hard piles are what gets thrown by city snowplows. Even if recent, I can't just drive through it. I may have to take a bite out of it, then hit it again and keep doing that till I get through or dig it out parallel to the direction it was dumped. When it's really bad I may have to get out the shovel or ice chipper to help loosen up the pile. So far I've always gotten through the piles but at times it can be difficult. Sounds like the piles the OP mentions may be similar. Now with the fall off the roof happening, I don't see where he indicates how soon it has happened.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

I made up a long list of things to check when 
a snow blower is not working if you want to go 
back through my posts.

The major thing is if the roof avalanche snow 
sets overnight the freeze thaw cycle will be the
(_&^%$%^&_ (cow manure) you cant even 
shovel anyway.

Living with a metal roof for 42 years teaches 
you a lot.

I would at least check the V belts and if the 
rubber comes off in your hands when you 
grip the V belt they should be replaced.

The other thing is you should buy a few cans 
of fluid film aerosol spray to coat the chute,
spout, impeller, impeller housing and cross augers
several times and let it dry between coats and
it will help with clearing the snowpack.


Leon


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)




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## strtch5881 (Oct 6, 2018)

Definitely not the machine. Any snow that comes off the roof needs to be removed asap. Slide off or shovel off, It's hard enough to move when it's fresh. The next day, you'll be out there using a gravel shovel and cussing.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

@IDEngineer the steel roofed houses that I clear (2) have decorative raised pieces in a couple of rows across the roof to prevent large amounts of snow falling on the driveway at one time. One house had the decorative pieces installed with the roof and the other after a year or two dealing with your problem (before my time blowing that driveway). Sounds like that approach may resolve your problem too.


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## PlOM (Nov 12, 2020)

IDEngineer said:


> I've had this problem with two snowblowers now. My previous 30 inch ~10 HP MTD unit which I owned since new for 25+ years could throw freshly fallen snow like a firehose. Even heavy, wet stuff. But when I'd run it into piled snow (like the piles that result from snow sliding off a roof) it would just stall in place, eat a hole in the snow in the shape of the augers, and not move forward.





IDEngineer said:


> I've read reports of people comfortably using these machines to blow away the ice berms caused by snowplows at the ends of their driveways, but there is ZERO chance either of my two machines would make any headway. An ice berm is way denser than the stuff I already can't move, and the only way I get rid of the "roof snow" now is to first break it up with a shovel so the machine can get into it.


In the following videos, roof snow is purposely pulled down, and then the pile blown some time later, and, when dealing with a really large snow plow berm, there's instances of rocking the blower and using a shovel. That's with a Platinum 24 EFI. It's the same as the Platinum 24 but fuel injected with electronic governor which might provide more consistent engine speed, but I doubt affects how the front end moves into a large pile. (Note, the two videos are separate instances of heavy snowfall.)

Just thought this might provide something to compare with the situations you have.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

*The OP stated :*_ 

But when I'd run it into piled snow (like the piles that result from snow sliding off a roof) it would just stall in place, eat a hole in the snow in the shape of the augers, and not move forward. 

*And: *

It's not a traction problem. Yes, the tires spin but even with that I have to give it literally everything I have to get any forward movement. _


It sounds like the augers are rotating correctly and the fan is tossing what the auger moves into the center. It also sounds like his blower transmission is applying enough torque to drive the wheel even when the machine is stalled. He comes to a point where something is prohibiting his forward progress. 

SO what's left? Either his bucket, skids or scraper is caught on something every time he attempts to cut into a snowbank OR the snow he is attempting to move is too dense for the bucket to cut. I vote the second possibility. The volume of the snow and velocity


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

We have the snow/ice guards on our metal roof in areas were sliding snow or ice could injure someone or damage vehicles etc. 

I will usually pull snow off the roof once or twice a winter because of snow load. I try to do this before a forecast of above freezing temperatures or rain and make sure I try to blow the snow the same day. I have no issues with the Ariens blowing this compacted snow, however it is important to go at it at your slowest speed and you shouldn't have to struggle with the machine. It also helps if you take half width buckets.

The snow I pull down onto my second story decks I do have to take small bites with my little 18" electric blower and at times ram it into the 2 or 3 foot high pile. I also will have to break up large chunks with a shovel.

If the snow has time to settle, especially if it has a thaw- freeze cycle I think any machine (short of a Gravely Snow Cannon) will struggle with the concrete like pile.


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## PlOM (Nov 12, 2020)

Ziggy65 said:


> I will usually pull snow off the roof once or twice a winter because of snow load . . .


In the second video I linked above, beginning at 8:35, the roof snow is pulled down and then the blower is used. It still required using a shovel to break up because, as was mentioned in the video, the pulled-down snow landed on an already deep snow, and the whole thing was compressed down. I doubt the Ariens in the video was faulty in any way. There could be some conditions where timing isn't a factor; the bucket frame can't penetrate the pile.

In some cases, until a first pass is made, a half-width pass isn't possible. In my experience, it's when making that first pass through a packed plow berm that the stalling is more apparent.


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## toofastforyou (Jan 29, 2019)

Take smaller bites and get some TIRE CHAINS!  ⛓

Claude.


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

If you place the skid shoes behind the bucket, make the nose of the auger gear box sharp, make the scraper bar sharp, and find ways to get more traction, I think they will help. Otherwise, you will have to take it easy. Everything have a limitation. You under-estimated packed snow there. Even snow plow trucks try to avoid packed snow.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

dman2 said:


> Even snow plow trucks try to avoid packed snow.


A few years back I saw a small truck plowing snow out of a side street and making a big pile on the opposite side of the main street; looked like he couldn't push it any farther. About a half hour later another truck came down the main street, and when it hit that pile the whole rig jumped sideways a foot or so. Impressed me with how much that dense pile affected the big truck.


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## kshansen (Aug 4, 2020)

Not sure if I missed it but if the blower does not have the pushing power to get in to the snow does it have chains on it? I don't have the problem the OP is dealing with as the wind here and the positioning of the house pretty much keeps the snow off the roof.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

deezlfan said:


> SO what's left?


_"Even heavy, wet stuff. But when I'd run it into piled snow (like the piles that result from snow sliding off a roof) it would just stall in place"_

Sounds like your operating "style" might be too fast and aggressive for the conditions at hand. 

An operators technique cannot be seen in a forum thread, so its the unknown factor here. 

Considering you have the same issue with a known good machine, slowing down and taking smaller cuts sounds like the solution.


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## ChuckD6321 (Nov 20, 2016)

deezlfan said:


> View attachment 170433


This -and me too.
I have a 3 year old Cub Cadet 3x 30" and this is where it shines.
That thing you see above stands proud of the augers and acts as a borer/grinder very effectively.
I can't say I can just waltz through the well-packed 20" drifts that land on my driveway or the iceberg the Townies leave at the road but it does go through without all the drama my old Polar Blast required.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

low and slow. That's the key.


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## biggen5963 (Feb 3, 2015)

I currently own a 2010 Ariens Pro32 and I don’t dare go through hard packed snow in any more than 1st gear. Even at the end of the driveway where the plow goes by, I may need to use a start-stop technique to take bites out of the snow. I’ve never owned a snowblower where you could go through everything at full speed and not expect it to stall out. You’re not supposed to go above 3rd gear with the augers engaged unless you like replacing the clutch plate every year.

However, my Pro32 does throw dry and wet snow like a firehose in 2nd and 3rd gears, so if yours isn’t at least doing that, I’d say there’s some kind if defect.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

> I have a 3 year old Cub Cadet 3x 30" and this is where it shines.


ChuckD, 

When it posted that photo of the 3 stage I was actually being facetious. That set-up really strikes me as being sort of ridiculous.

However, I'm willing to learn from someone that plunked down good money for one. Are snowbanks it's primary advantage? How does the gearbox seem to be holding up? Have you experienced any bending of the propeller sticking out in front when hitting the tough stuff? I think if I were compelled to get a three stage, it would be an older machine with the upper beater bar that runs parallel with the auger e.g. Craftsman DriftBreaker.


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## Mountain Man (Oct 14, 2018)

It's always about Density and how frozen. The EOD is one thing, but a big snow drop off roof simulates aavalanche. If you've ever dealt with a avalanch , its concrete. Similar to ski area grooming or snowmobile trail grooming. .

In January 2010 we had 60 inches of snow. We had building failures, roof damage from weight, decks shearing off houses. I was raking roofs every few days. My brothers shop had to have the flat roof shoveled off, since the steel beams were measurably sagging ! They threw snow off the roof, and they couldn't move it with a F350 after 30 minutes. They had to use the John Deere 110 to move the cement. It was amazing how it compacted and quickly froze. 

Same effect at your house. Snowblowers aren't designed to of that kind of snow.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

I've seen a total of 1 blower that could probably take the falloff at full speed. It was a custom built unit: looked like a Bobcat chassis, a truck axel converted into an auger and powered by a 454 ci Chevy engine. Pretty much any consumer blower is going to require small bites and slow speed, and maybe using a shovel or ice chopper to break it up a little first.


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

IDEngineer said:


> I've had this problem with two snowblowers now. My previous 30 inch ~10 HP MTD unit which I owned since new for 25+ years could throw freshly fallen snow like a firehose. Even heavy, wet stuff. But when I'd run it into piled snow (like the piles that result from snow sliding off a roof) it would just stall in place, eat a hole in the snow in the shape of the augers, and not move forward. I would have to put some serious grunt into pushing it into the snow myself to make any progress at all.
> 
> So a couple of years ago I treated myself to a brand new Ariens Pro32. I figured the packed snow problem would be history, but nope! Same problem. I've read reports of people comfortably using these machines to blow away the ice berms caused by snowplows at the ends of their driveways, but there is ZERO chance either of my two machines would make any headway. An ice berm is way denser than the stuff I already can't move, and the only way I get rid of the "roof snow" now is to first break it up with a shovel so the machine can get into it.
> 
> ...


Is it possible the augers where installed incorrectly and not getting snow to the impeller? Just a thought.


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## Elfiero (Apr 9, 2019)

So I have read this entire discussion twice and I have not seen where anyone asked what kind of surface he was trying to blow the snow off of. if you are on a hard surface like asphalt or concrete. I would ask if he has the blower in 1st gear and if he has it wide open on the throttle(both of these are extremely important). If he is on grass, the same things apply PLUS you either have to have the skids lowered your you have to push down slightly on the handlebars. if he is on ice forget it, it isn't going to go thru it no matter what you do. Lastly like others have said, roof avalanche snow is VERY compressed and must be dealt with ASAP. How far is this roof snow falling from? Do you have chains on the machine? Do other people in your area have the same type of trouble? These are questions that must be answered for us to help.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Bottom line, its all about experience in understanding your machine, its capabilities, its limits, your own operating capabilities of working with said machine, and that everything is in good working order and adjusted properly. Each machine has its own idiosyncrasies.

I have taken a machine that my neighbor was having trouble with, and went through end of driveway effortlessly ... I should him how, and he has been fine ever since.

Just sayin .....


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Guessing but could the machine need weight added to the bucket? I added 25# to my Ariens 28 Pro and that made a big difference at the bottom of my driveway


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## ChuckD6321 (Nov 20, 2016)

deezlfan said:


> ChuckD,
> 
> When it posted that photo of the 3 stage I was actually being facetious. That set-up really strikes me as being sort of ridiculous.
> 
> However, I'm willing to learn from someone that plunked down good money for one. Are snowbanks it's primary advantage? How does the gearbox seem to be holding up? Have you experienced any bending of the propeller sticking out in front when hitting the tough stuff? I think if I were compelled to get a three stage, it would be an older machine with the upper beater bar that runs parallel with the auger e.g. Craftsman DriftBreaker.


Hey, sorry I didn't see your post till now.
I've only ever owned 2 snowblowers and grew up with shovels, so I can't say how this compares with anything else. I can compare with the old Troy-bilt Polarblast 2 stage that did pretty well. This CC had the shear pin breakage issue which nearly got me to return it or sell it until I found the ones CC supplied were lesser quality. I've now run through two winters and may have replaced 2 pins. I purchased it new from a local dealer.
This past weekend we got 22" to 28" depending on where you measured and the CC went through it well enough. Because we're out in the country I try to do my own service work which also means I try not to abuse my stuff (too much) so the first pass through the drifts was a full width path (with snow coming over the top), but then it was first gear, half-width passes.
I have a 400' asphalt driveway in good condition, and very prone to drifting. Also had to contend with a 4'+ snowbank at the end and as long as I listen to it and don't gag it it chewed some pretty frozen clumps, as well as the drifts. I did have to take a break and tighten up the auger drive cable when it seemed to lose it throwing but that was a 5 minute fix and the first time I've needed to do it. I cannot see any deformation of the auger blades after all this time and I have had to replace the auger belt twice due to my own klutziness so it has suffered some abuse. I've had no gearbox problems, or any other serious issues due to design flaws. It still starts on the second or third pull every time and really hasn't had an engine tune-up other than changing the oil regularly (once a season).
The shear pin issue really left me with a bad taste and if you'd asked me 2 years ago I would've said 'run, don't walk away'. But it has been very dependable since finding better quality pins.
Hth.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

IDEngineer said:


> I've had this problem with two snowblowers now. My previous 30 inch ~10 HP MTD unit which I owned since new for 25+ years could throw freshly fallen snow like a firehose. Even heavy, wet stuff. But when I'd run it into piled snow (like the piles that result from snow sliding off a roof) it would just stall in place, eat a hole in the snow in the shape of the augers, and not move forward. I would have to put some serious grunt into pushing it into the snow myself to make any progress at all.
> 
> So a couple of years ago I treated myself to a brand new Ariens Pro32. I figured the packed snow problem would be history, but nope! Same problem. I've read reports of people comfortably using these machines to blow away the ice berms caused by snowplows at the ends of their driveways, but there is ZERO chance either of my two machines would make any headway. An ice berm is way denser than the stuff I already can't move, and the only way I get rid of the "roof snow" now is to first break it up with a shovel so the machine can get into it.
> 
> ...


do you do the same thing with high thick grass with your lawnmower?


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