# What's wrong with this picture?



## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Awful slow in this Ariens Forum this time of year, how about a quiz to liven things up?

What on earth is this woman doing?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

shovelling the driveway ( dont have my glasses on )


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

orangputeh said:


> shovelling the driveway ( dont have my glasses on )


With what?









Maybe this will help?


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

hint


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## nafterclifen (Oct 14, 2015)

Looks like a single stage style auger and controls in a two stage style housing/bucket and chute. But it's not cleaning right down to the pavement like single stage blowers normally do. And lastly, most importantly - there is NO snow on the trees. Zero. NONE.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

nafterclifen said:


> Looks like a single stage style auger and controls in a two stage style housing/bucket and chute. But it's not cleaning right down to the pavement like single stage blowers normally do.


Oh it cleans right down to the surface all right, the concept wouldn't work if it didn't.


nafterclifen said:


> And lastly, most importantly - there is NO snow on the trees. Zero. NONE.


 So not fresh snow, noted, look at those snow banks.


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## tuffnell (Dec 1, 2011)

Cleaning up after the big blower was done.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

tuffnell said:


> Cleaning up after the big blower was done.


 Not necessarily, those banks could just be the result of many storms piled one on top of the other...







Here's a different view


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

She is clearly walking her dog.

It is Photoshop. she has the same body gesture in all 3 photos. It is just different angles. Even her shadow is at the wrong direction. The snow stream in the last picture looks so fake.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Nope, I confirmed the photos are real, genuine, and official.


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## 4getgto (Jul 20, 2020)

Well if the augers are the hint I'm still lost.😉🤔
I'm assuming they're turning but hard to tell from a still picture


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

4getgto said:


> Well if the augers are the hint I'm still lost.😉🤔
> I'm assuming they're turning but hard to tell from a still picture


 To be fair I'm assuming those are the augers after studying the photos, Look at the rear wheels....and as you can see in the last photo, it is clearing right to the surface,


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm not an Ariens guy, but I know that is a less popular model since the wheels are not power driven and you have to push it through the snow.


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## 4getgto (Jul 20, 2020)

Grunt said:


> I'm not an Ariens guy, but I know that is a less popular model since the wheels are not power driven and you have to push it through the snow.


If that's the case maybe she's pushing it to the end of the driveway and leaving it there..!🤔


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

4getgto said:


> If that's the case maybe she's pushing it to the end of the driveway and leaving it there..!🤔


Although not wheel propelled, it is pulled forward by the rubber bladed auger, just like a single stage. There was some discussion about them here-









Ariens ST2+2 or Toro 5/21
 

I have a chance to pick up one of these used snowblowers. The Ariens is in decent shape with a fresh carb rebuilt - $140. The Toro is old and a little worn looking, but still runs ok, could use a tune up - $75. Any opinions on these models and pricing?




www.snowblowerforum.com


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Grunt said:


> I'm not an Ariens guy, but I know that is a less popular model since the wheels are not power driven and you have to push it through the snow.


Yeah that's what I thought too, until I owned one and was able to put it to use. Most front tine rototillers aren't wheel driven either. Neither are single stage snow throwers and push lawnmowers. But as anyone who's operated a modern Single stage thrower can tell you, they can actually clear more snow faster, with less effort than an older disk drive and other compacts (in certain circumstances).
And BTW, It's Ironic a non Ariens guy kinda put his finger on the problem with the photos, It's not a less popular model, It's a non existent model that hasn't been produced in decades. Why would professionally staged photos be produced in the summer of 2020, of some woman tooling around with a long defunct concept model that no longer exists?


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

It is not a concept. I have seemed it for sale in my area before. I already knew it was a push snowblower with those skinny wheels. Also, there is nothing in the photos that indicate summer of 2020. It hard to know what you want for the answer, so everyone win and you lose.


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

The first two posters already said that it is a two-stage with single-stage handling, so they know.

Two stages mean auger + impeller. You don't need to have drive to make it a two-stages.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

dman2 said:


> It is not a concept. I have seemed it for sale in my area before. I already knew it was a push snowblower with those skinny wheels. Also, there is nothing in the photos that indicate summer of 2020. It hard to know what you want for the answer, so everyone win and you lose.


You've never seen this model before and I could prove it.


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

HillnGullyRider said:


> You've never seen this model before and I could prove it.


Maybe not that model, but a similar Ariens model. It had like 3.5 HP up to 5 HP. It had those skinny bicycle wheels. It looked exactly like that. I have seemed many vintage snowblowers like that. No one wants to push those heavy snowblowers through 10" of snow, that is why they are not popular. On a single-stage, at least the paddles help propel it forward. I think the current Toro SnowMaster 824 QXE is using the same concept, but better. It doesn't has drive.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

It sure looks like an Ariens ST5+2 with a taller chute and orange handles. Perhaps it is a European model?


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

dman2 said:


> I think the current Toro SnowMaster 824 QXE is using the same concept, but better. It doesn't has drive.


The Toro is not the same, nor even similar . The Toro is like a reverse Metro. Once upon a time Ariens made a concept 2 stage that looked and operated like a single Stage. It was a marketing ploy directed at Urban market. The Toro Snowmaster is a single stage machine with a walk behind lawnmower transmission, it's meant to look and act like a two stage. It's a 60KG behemoth with nearly three times the engine displacement. 



dman2 said:


> Maybe not that model, but a similar Ariens model.


 All modern true two stage blowers are similar, they have an engine driven impeller that goes on to power the augers via a right angle gear case.




dman2 said:


> It had like 3.5 HP up to 5 HP. It had those skinny bicycle wheels. It looked exactly like that. I have seemed many vintage snowblowers like that. No one wants to push those heavy snowblowers through 10" of snow, that is why they are not popular. On a single-stage, at least the paddles help propel it forward.


So you've seen one? but not had any actual real world experience with one? Would it surprise you to learn that out here in the real world my 932500 that probably weighs less than 100lbs, clears the driveway faster than my 926pro in anything up to 10 inches, and I actually have to end up pushing the 926 more often (turning)? The problem for the 300lb Pro, is that the driveway never gets above 10 inches because it's already been cleared. I assure you that if that machine pictured in the photos didn't have a deadman bar and the belt was pretensioned, that it would take off on it's own like an unleashed hound.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Ziggy65 said:


> It sure looks like an Ariens ST5+2 with a taller chute and orange handles. Perhaps it is a European model?
> 
> View attachment 167956


That's a 932500....And I initially had the same thought as you, Is this some overseas photo? perhaps the French Alps? Either that or it's some discontinued model I was unaware of.
But nope, that photo first appeared on Tuesday afternoon the 28th and it's not on www Ariens . com.









On Edit: Whoops sorry , Ziggy's pic is a rare 932025, not the 500

This is the 500 and the 103


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

The Ariens ST5+2 was one of the many that I saw (I remember its name now). It is pretty much a single-stage snowblower to me. Work as a lightweight machine for mobility.

I do have a single-stage snowblower for anything under 8" of snow. It is faster, clean to the pavement, and easier to handle.


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

HillnGullyRider said:


> This is the 500 and the 103
> View attachment 167958


The one on the right, I saw it for sale on FB marketplace a few days ago.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Different new subcompact frame than the 500 (note the novel attachment points and 45 degree rear chamfer), New design belt cover, new bucket design(note the novel auger bushing attachment), New top loader, New chute and support setup, New chute and deflection handles, different wheels, different bars set (not just color), New electric start 179cc AX engine. New rakes, New 10" 3 blade impeller....Sorry but, NOTHING is the SAME.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

dman2 said:


> The one on the right, I saw it for sale on FB marketplace a few days ago.


Thats the OHV 6hp 103 and I don't even have an FB account. So you saw a similar one. I think they made these up to 7.5 HP with the same displacement, so you can't always go by the name plate, you have to identify the model number to identify the state of tune and options. Early versions had the L head. IMO the 20" OHV works best for this concept, the 103 is 24" and still does fine.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

dman2 said:


> I do have a single-stage snowblower for anything under 8" of snow. It is faster, clean to the pavement, and easier to handle.


Yes but does that SS blast into EOD at 5mph, grunt down, and respond with a giant rooster tail without trying to climb up an over the top of it? 

SS machines are like windmills, they work better than 2 stage on anything up to the radius line of the paddle rotation. Anything over that and the load starts zapping efficiency and power because the forward (top) is rotating in opposition to the load direction.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Freshly updated 2021 models








Snow Blowers and Snow Removal Equipment | Ariens


Shop all Ariens Snow Blowers. Over 4 million snow blowers produced since 1960. The #1 selling brand of two-stage snow blowers in the world. We’re called The King of Snow, and we’ve earned it.




www.ariens.com





The other place I was looking at, apparently had two new models confused. The new S18 is 18" with 99cc.
The new 932 model is 20" and 179cc's but they had the S18 features on the crossover series page. The offficial Ariens page at the above link has the corrected info.


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## Slinger (Oct 9, 2014)

So, a new Ariens Crossover 20 model 2 stage? 179cc. With that tall bucket? The auger contacts the ground like a traditional SS, which pulls itself along, but this one can't be turning as fast a a traditional SS, can it? I have yet to see a video of this new model in operation. Manual chute rotation & deflection. No frills. At $699, I think I'd rather spend my money on a fully featured true SS or a Toro Snowmaster (which I now own), which does not contact the ground with it's auger (it has a scraper bar) but does have Toro's personal pace self propelled system. And a 24" wide bucket! And an awesome quick-stick chute control. And electric start.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Slinger said:


> So, a new Ariens Crossover 20 model 2 stage? 179cc. With that tall bucket? The auger contacts the ground like a traditional SS, which pulls itself along, but this one can't be turning as fast a a traditional SS, can it? I have yet to see a video of this new model in operation. Manual chute rotation & deflection. No frills. At $699, I think I'd rather spend my money on a fully featured true SS or a Toro Snowmaster (which I now own), which does not contact the ground with it's auger (it has a scraper bar) but does have Toro's personal pace self propelled system. And a 24" wide bucket! And an awesome quick-stick chute control. And electric start.


$629 msrp and it also has a shaver plate that I believe is made of high speed poly that rests directly on the surface and takes up the work of the missing skid shoes (but traditional steel shavers also work on it) Your Snowmaster, on the other hand, lifts snow like a traditional SS, which means it spends half it's rotation in wasted efficiency by throwing snow in the opposite direction (out instead of in, and down on the surface forward in front of the thrower as opposed to the other half of the time when it's doing it's magic by lifting snow up, out, and away. This SS efficiency problem is exponentially magnified once the intake snow level raises above the axial centerline of the paddles. This happens, not only from the snowfall levels but also below the the total storm accumulation due to piling (like what happens with a traditional snow pusher) This is why why electric single stage machines get zapped on power quickly once you exceed the optimized intake depth limit. In addition, SS machines, by inherent design, when encountering piles, want to climb a pile instead of slicing through it.
The crossover doesn't use paddles, It uses tires that double as conveyors, all the lifting work is done traditionally like any other 2 stage machine so you still get 2 stage lift height, distance, and placement as well as 2 stage EOD pile performance (reduced climbing). These are quite capable of clearing surfaces in excess of 5mph (it's faster than any TOL hydro, gear,or disk) in the proper conditions. 
There is a remote chute control available, but that's optional and adds weight and IMO (from experience with very similar older machines). unnecessary. A machine like the crossover is capable of clearing accumulation above the intake height (with optional slicer bars) like any other 2 stage, Would you want to use it in such conditions? not really (because most of the speed and lightweight benefits go away) but the capability is there if need be, so this could work as someone's lone machine (especially in lighter and more infrequent accumulation areas where it would be ideal.). The Crossover and Toro snowmaster are not similar in any way.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Going back to my thoughts on a solid auger single stage with 12 horsepower+ using the motomower snow shark as an example of a drive system with a slip clutch and chain drive for the solid auger like the old single stages mounted on lawn tractors like the original IHC cub cadet, Simplicity and Wheel Horse spun at 600 plus RPM using a 24-28 inch solid auger it would have no problem with the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER AND heavy snowmelt pack as the torque delivered to the cross auger would be more than enough for the work.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

leonz said:


> Going back to my thoughts on a solid auger single stage with 12 horsepower+ using the motomower snow shark as an example of a drive system with a slip clutch and chain drive for the solid auger like the old single stages mounted on lawn tractors like the original IHC cub cadet, Simplicity and Wheel Horse spun at 600 plus RPM using a 24-28 inch solid auger it would have no problem with the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER AND heavy snowmelt pack as the torque delivered to the cross auger would be more than enough for the work.


We need to build it then have a test in different conditions, I still think the SS is probably the fastest and most efficient if the snow piling is below the paddle centerline and the snow is fresh. Tall slush may present a problem for both types but the crossover may be more prone to clogging, I don't usually get bad slush, had one or two last year with the 500(different impeller design than x-over), and it did fine, but the distance was greatly reduced. One day was particularly unusual, with near a foot of extremely wet accumulation, almost like it had rained on top of fresh snowpack. I didn't have to be anywhere, so I waited for it to harden up at nightfall instead, and it worked great.


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## hammer6315 (Dec 15, 2019)

I may have squawked about this before, I own a newer Ariens 2 stage: I think its a 24" with the chinese engine. Anyway, the auger does not come close to the pavement, so forward motion is pretty much dependent on the drive wheels only. I experience 'drive slip' quite often, especially when snow conditions aren't perfect. My single stage Toro with the two-stroke Tecumseh engine often is less of a hassle to operate. Why did Ariens make this design change?


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

hammer6315 said:


> I may have squawked about this before, I own a newer Ariens 2 stage: I think its a 24" with the chinese engine. Anyway, the auger does not come close to the pavement, so forward motion is pretty much dependent on the drive wheels only. I experience 'drive slip' quite often, especially when snow conditions aren't perfect. My single stage Toro with the two-stroke Tecumseh engine often is less of a hassle to operate. Why did Ariens make this design change?


Are the tires slipping, or is it your belt? There is no design change, the vast majority of two stage machines operate in a very tank like manner with top speeds around 3 mph., The augers are supposed to be up off the ground and if they are not then you have a big problem. Your SS is propelled by the paddles which operate at more than 3mph,,,That and most SS weigh about 90 lbs, your two stroker may weight even less.
If your belt is tight and you tires don't slip then it's your friction disk which could be worn and in need of readjustment. That or it could be a weak spring. If your machine is newish there is a possibility the disk was never set correctly to begin with. Whatever you do don't keep operating it with an out of adjustment disk. Now is the time to check the adjustments, and the rest of the blower, Don't wait till it's cold and snowy. I think they outline the proper adjustments in your manual.


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## Slinger (Oct 9, 2014)

HillnGullyRider said:


> $629 msrp and it also has a shaver plate that I believe is made of high speed poly that rests directly on the surface and takes up the work of the missing skid shoes (but traditional steel shavers also work on it) Your Snowmaster, on the other hand, lifts snow like a traditional SS, which means it spends half it's rotation in wasted efficiency by throwing snow in the opposite direction (out instead of in, and down on the surface forward in front of the thrower as opposed to the other half of the time when it's doing it's magic by lifting snow up, out, and away. This SS efficiency problem is exponentially magnified once the intake snow level raises above the axial centerline of the paddles. This happens, not only from the snowfall levels but also below the the total storm accumulation due to piling (like what happens with a traditional snow pusher) This is why why electric single stage machines get zapped on power quickly once you exceed the optimized intake depth limit. In addition, SS machines, by inherent design, when encountering piles, want to climb a pile instead of slicing through it.
> The crossover doesn't use paddles, It uses tires that double as conveyors, all the lifting work is done traditionally like any other 2 stage machine so you still get 2 stage lift height, distance, and placement as well as 2 stage EOD pile performance (reduced climbing). These are quite capable of clearing surfaces in excess of 5mph (it's faster than any TOL hydro, gear,or disk) in the proper conditions.
> There is a remote chute control available, but that's optional and adds weight and IMO (from experience with very similar older machines). unnecessary. A machine like the crossover is capable of clearing accumulation above the intake height (with optional slicer bars) like any other 2 stage, Would you want to use it in such conditions? not really (because most of the speed and lightweight benefits go away) but the capability is there if need be, so this could work as someone's lone machine (especially in lighter and more infrequent accumulation areas where it would be ideal.). The Crossover and Toro snowmaster are not similar in any way.


Never said they were...I simply said that's where I would spend my money for my reasons...all subject to change once we see how this thing performs in real world conditions.


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## Slinger (Oct 9, 2014)

HillnGullyRider said:


> Yes but does that SS blast into EOD at 5mph, grunt down, and respond with a giant rooster tail without trying to climb up an over the top of it?
> 
> SS machines are like windmills, they work better than 2 stage on anything up to the radius line of the paddle rotation. Anything over that and the load starts zapping efficiency and power because the forward (top) is rotating in opposition to the load direction.


Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see this Crossover unit with a 179cc engine BLASTING into (typically hard-packed /icy) EOD at 5mph, grunting down and responding with a GIANT ROOSTER TAIL...
(guess we'll just have to wait & see...)


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Slinger said:


> Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see this Crossover unit with a 179cc engine BLASTING into (typically hard-packed /icy) EOD at 5mph, grunting down and responding with a GIANT ROOSTER TAIL...
> (guess we'll just have to wait & see...)


Well, It always depends on conditions, but if it's like the vintage ones (it's only giving up 15cc's or so in displacement) then it will like the pile a little harder, crusty like conditions at dusk, not frozen solid, rather than softer high noon conditions. Keep in mind, it's only scooping 20 inches. Narrower than many SS, but taller.


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## Great white (Feb 4, 2021)

HillnGullyRider said:


> Awful slow in this Ariens Forum this time of year, how about a quiz to liven things up?
> 
> What on earth is this woman doing?
> View attachment 167941


Looks to me like she’s having a blast. 😊


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