# Why a lack of large (22"+) power propelled single stage blowers ???



## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

*First off, this is not a single stage vs two stage love fest !
Both have their fan base and I own both.

When most people think of single stage blowers, they probably think of something like this, rubber paddles that contact the ground and propel themselves along somewhat...*










*... but back a few decades ago something like this was available.*









*Craftsman 5hp 20" or a 7hp 22" with forward and reverse.*






*Many garden tractor manufacturers also used the single stage design for their blowers. 
Case/Ingersoll used their single stage design for 42 years with very few changes.
They work very well !
This video shows a Case 224 with a 38" blower. Well over 1,000 lbs with ballast/wheel weights and all being powered by a Kohler 14hp single.* 







*Why were there so few manufacturers producing a 22-24" single stage walk behinds with multiple forward speeds and reverse, weighing 200-250 lbs and powered by a 6-8hp engine?
BCS/Grillo tractors produce a single stage blower and it's fantastic, but it's also as long as my car.
Great for wide open spaces, but for a suburban driveway...not so much.*

*Lastly, can anyone ID the manufacturer of this Yellow Craftsman 24" single stage in the video & photos below ? *

























Thanks for your insights people !!!
It's much appreciated


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## Bob E (Jun 9, 2014)

From looking through old magazine articles, it seems to me: First came the huge impeller single stages. Then came the idea to put an auger(s) in front of a smaller impeller to make the two stage everybody loves. The auger single stage came after that as a way to simplify and/or save money, They were the low end option which is why they are on the small side. I think older tractor companies used them because they were simple and worked well with horizontal shaft engines situated the way most older tractors used them. Then came the idea for the rubber flapper type of single stage. Simpler, cheaper, lighter. And more tractors started using vertical shaft engines which work easier with 2 stage blowers. 
Of course YMMV :smile2:


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

Bob E said:


> From looking through old magazine articles, it seems to me: First came the huge impeller single stages. Then came the idea to put an auger(s) in front of a smaller impeller to make the two stage everybody loves. The auger single stage came after that as a way to simplify and/or save money, They were the low end option which is why they are on the small side. I think older tractor companies used them because they were simple and worked well with horizontal shaft engines situated the way most older tractors used them. Then came the idea for the rubber flapper type of single stage. Simpler, cheaper, lighter. And more tractors started using vertical shaft engines which work easier with 2 stage blowers.
> Of course YMMV :smile2:


Thanks Bob !

I guess there are other factors I failed to consider, such as icy/crusty snow that a 2 stage would break up before it's fed into the impeller vs the single stage trying to do it all in one motion.
Perhaps it was a safety issue, you've got the entire steel auger spinning at impeller speeds, versus a rubber paddle. Any guesses which one might eat your finger?
Granted the impeller of a 2 stage can certainly cause injuries, but it's also more difficult to reach than the auger of a single stage.
BCS/Grillo has done well with their current single stage design...


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## AbominableSnowman (Nov 14, 2016)

Wouldn't the (relatively) new Toro SnowMaster series 724 and 824 QXE models qualify as "large" and "single stage"? They're 24" wide with a high scoop intake and certainly not two stage.


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

One of the greatest attributes of a single stage snow blower is the small compact size. They're light enough to throw them in the back of a pick-up truck or SUV without ramps.


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

AbominableSnowman said:


> Wouldn't the (relatively) new Toro SnowMaster series 724 and 824 QXE models qualify as "large" and "single stage"? They're 24" wide with a high scoop intake and certainly not two stage.


It qualifies, but a 22" or larger power propelled single stage still only accounts for probably less than 1% or all snowblowers sold.
If larger power propelled single stages increased the manufacturers sales & profits by 30%, I'm sure I'd see many more options available, but that's not likely to happen.

For me, I've never experienced EOD issues caused by plows, in fact city/county plows have gone down my street just 2-3 times in 30 years, so a larger single stage would work just fine.
A 26-28" SS blower would be ideal, but the only thing that size that I know of is the BCS/Grillo.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

russkat said:


> For me, I've never experienced EOD issues caused by plows, in fact city/county plows have gone down my street just 2-3 times in 30 years, so a larger single stage would work just fine.
> A 26-28" SS blower would be ideal, but the only thing that size that I know of is the BCS/Grillo.


Would you prefer one with an all metal or metal/rubber paddles?
One can be custom made if it was a really desirable unit. :grin:


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

YSHSfan said:


> Would you prefer one with an all metal or metal/rubber paddles?
> One can be custom made if it was a really desirable unit. :grin:


Steel paddles...
I don't need anything custom made, half the time I end up just shoveling anyway.

I think the bottom line is that there is little demand for them, so few manufacturers are going to bother making them.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Popular Mechanics page 50 for the 1971 Line-up. 

The Eska 946 Sno-Flyr is a 26" with a 7Hp Lauson engine. The next largest SS is a Sears 6hp 24".


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

I don't recall ever seeing an Eska for sale locally.
If the one in the video is a single speed, it seems way too fast for me.
Any idea who made the Sears 24" ?


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

Just my opinion of course but it seems likely to me the answer is safety.

If your hand or foot makes contact with a metal auger spinning at 1200 RPM bad stuff is pretty likely to happen. That's less true when the auger is only turning 100 RPM.

Of course that doesn't really explain why no larger models are made with rubber paddles... maybe the flexibility of the rubber makes them impractical to handle larger quantities of snow.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

ELaw said:


> Just my opinion of course but it seems likely to me the answer is safety.
> 
> If your hand or foot makes contact with a metal auger spinning at 1200 RPM bad stuff is pretty likely to happen. That's less true when the auger is only turning 100 RPM.


Safety does make sense and it also explains why less and less tractor snowblower attachments are made 'single stage'. 
I believe there was a thread (by Leonz.....?) questioning the 'why' and I think this is likely part of the answer.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

*single stage snow casters*



Bob E said:


> From looking through old magazine articles, it seems to me: First came the huge impeller single stages. Then came the idea to put an auger(s) in front of a smaller impeller to make the two stage everybody loves. The auger single stage came after that as a way to simplify and/or save money, They were the low end option which is why they are on the small side. I think older tractor companies used them because they were simple and worked well with horizontal shaft engines situated the way most older tractors used them. Then came the idea for the rubber flapper type of single stage. Simpler, cheaper, lighter. And more tractors started using vertical shaft engines which work easier with 2 stage blowers.
> Of course YMMV :smile2:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The old single stage snow blow rotors were of small diameter-less than 13 inches in diameter like the 1967 48 inch single stage IHC cub cadet snow thrower I grew up with. It had a V belt to chain final drive system that never gave us any trouble. 


I keep hoping someone would steal the JD junk 44 inch 2 stage I have to just get rid of it as it has been nothing but a money pit since I bought it and the LA115 6 years ago as excess inventory. 

IF I could I would mount a JD single stage on the LA115 I have now as it would run better and cost less money to own.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

AbominableSnowman said:


> Wouldn't the (relatively) new Toro SnowMaster series 724 and 824 QXE models qualify as "large" and "single stage"? They're 24" wide with a high scoop intake and certainly not two stage.


Yes they would qualify for that


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

All good points, thanks for the input !

One of my favorite blowers is an old gravely with a dog eater blower.
No OSHA safety features on this bad boy !
Not the most ideal for my current property, but if I found one in good shape I'd consider owning one again.
Fun to use and a useful tool in the summer time also.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

leonz said:


> IF I could I would mount a JD single stage on the LA115 I have now as it would run better and cost less money to own.


With the proper tools, patience and creativity (besides free time)....... it could definitely be done...... :grin:


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## frozenwrench (Oct 18, 2017)

russkat said:


> *First off, this is not a single stage vs two stage love fest !*
> *Both have their fan base and I own both.*
> 
> *When most people think of single stage blowers, they probably think of something like this, rubber paddles that contact the ground and propel themselves along somewhat...*
> ...




Isn't a Toro Snowmaster exactly what you are describing?


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

It is... but where have these machines been since the 1970's ? I don't know of any made besides the BCS (for years now) and the current Toro. Only 2 models over the last 40 years ? 
Obviously there has been no demand for them or every manufacturer would have them in their lineup.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

the Toro could be the model that sparks the resuregence. 

Imagine if George Clooney was seen wearing the Optigrab glasses?


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## toroused (Mar 1, 2015)

I had one of the afore mentioned Sears 24" one stage machines way back when, given to me by a relative whose husband had died. Extremely scary machine. There were no safety controls and as soon as you pulled started the motor, the auger would start flying around at what seemed like a 500 miles per hour. The only way to stop it was to cut the engine. Had a great chassis and a nice handle bar set up, but it was a terrible and horrifically dangerous blower. Even with powder, it only threw the stuff about 3-4 feet. It was absolutely useless in wet slop. Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

leonz said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The old single stage snow blow rotors were of small diameter-less than 13 inches in diameter like the 1967 48 inch single stage IHC cub cadet snow thrower I grew up with. It had a V belt to chain final drive system that never gave us any trouble.
> 
> ...


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## guyl (Jun 12, 2016)

Yeah, those wimpy single stage blowers...why can't they make big ones?


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

My 22,000+ ton per hour machine would make that one crap its pants and jump off its loader mount and run away.


The walk behind snow blower market may never see a larger single stage snow thrower due to the need for a larger engine is a 13 inch shell type rotor is used unless its is installed on a track drive machine like the Zaugg Bulldog or the larger Zaugg Snow Beast.


The only way it would work well is if a Hinowa tracked farm tractor was used wherein a single stage snow clearer that had a twin disc snow clearing head with a V twin engine mounted on the bed of the Hinowa Tracked tractor.

The snow clearing head would be using an 80H 2 row roller chain drive to spin the right snow clearing heads clockwise on the right and counter clockwise on the left by proving a direct drive to one snow clearing disc with a universal joint and propeller shaft and a 2 row roller chain sprocket attached to the opposing snow clearing disc it would certainly be worth every penny for any type of snow removal. (depending on crank shaft rotation).

AND it would small enough to be put on a 2 ton trailer with a landscape deck/ramp. 

It would take a couple weeks worth of machine and welding after the parts and support bearings are in stock but it would certainly be worthy of doing as the use of snow clearing discs has been in use since 1952.



It would also operate faster and not have any spillage like so many 2 stage units. 

I am still looking for the newest snow blower on the market that is mounted on a tractors three point hitch that uses the twin snow clearing discs as I forgot to down load the picture and information about it GGGRRRRRR




I do not remember how to drag a photo from my windows photo gallery to add the snow beast photo GGRRR


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