# Toro On/Off Key Operation



## threeputtpar (Jan 16, 2014)

Toro 824 Powershift - blower runs great but the key on the control panel doesn't function as it should. In either the on or off position, the machine still runs.

What's the premise on how these operate as a kill switch? There are two wires coming out of the switch that both go to a metal tab that is attached (grounded) on the recoil housing, and the ground wire from the ignition coil also attaches there. My electrician father took a look at it over the weekend and even he couldn't figure out how it isn't grounded 100% of the time.

We at least tested the switch with a DVM and it registered infinite ohms on both on and off. We got the same reading when testing the two wires that connect to the on/off switch. I think we were expecting to see 0 ohms because it would have been a completed circuit.

I would like to have the switch working as it's convenient to turn off the machine with it. How do I go about testing the system and determining if it's all hooked up correctly? Thanks.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Normally when you remove the key it grounds the ignition and stops the engine, so one wire is from the ignition and the other to a ground. 
Can you not as well shut the engine when you close your throttle completely? This what most people use to shut the engine or an engine off/on switch.
You should verify if the two metallic tabs have a good contact together when the key is removed which is when you can use your ohm meter to see if there is continuity from ignition wire to engine ground.
The plastic key is meant to shut the engine in an emergency and or preventing the young ones starting the engine inadvertently which is less prone to happen. I never use the plastic key to shut my engine as it is prone to break in half and the throttle is easier to use. Just my opinion.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Those key switches if using a metal key have a tendency to corrode internally from water entering the key slot. One wire will go to ground, such as a ring terminal on the recoil housing. The second wire will go to a nylon or plastic insulated block on the recoil that connects to the ignition coil kill terminal and is isolated from ground.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Yea, pretty simple. One wire comes from the ignition and goes to the switch. The other wire goes back to touch the engine. When the switch is "off" those 2 wires are touching which causes the spark to ground out on the engine instead of sparking at the plug. When the switch is "on" it causes a break in that wire which lets the engine run. Either one of your wires is broken / disconnected or your switch is worn out.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Thanks Grunt for clearing this up for me as I thought they were all metal tabs where the key is inserted.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Normex said:


> Thanks Grunt for clearing this up for me as I thought they were all metal tabs where the key is inserted.


You were correct in your description Normex, for the newer style switches that use a plastic key. We are all here to help each other. By the way, you did a great job on the sulky you made. Good luck with it and God Bless you.


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## threeputtpar (Jan 16, 2014)

Grunt said:


> Those key switches if using a metal key have a tendency to corrode internally from water entering the key slot. One wire will go to ground, such as a ring terminal on the recoil housing. The second wire will go to a nylon or plastic insulated block on the recoil that connects to the ignition coil kill terminal and is isolated from ground.


So for testing purposes on the key cylinder, when in the off position a DVM should read 0 as it's making a circuit and in the on position it should read ??? because the circuit is broken allowing the coil to fire? Do I have that right, and if the meter shows ??? that means the cylinder is bad?

Quick edit: both of the wires from the switch are attached to a grounding tab located on the recoil housing, along with the wire that comes from the coil. Should it actually be that the coil ground wire should just be attached to one of the wires from the switch and not also screwed onto the grounding tab? Would the switch work then?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

threeputtpar said:


> So for testing purposes on the key cylinder, when in the off position a DVM should read 0 as it's making a circuit and in the on position it should read ??? because the circuit is broken allowing the coil to fire? Do I have that right, and if the meter shows ??? that means the cylinder is bad?
> 
> Quick edit: both of the wires from the switch are attached to a grounding tab located on the recoil housing, along with the wire that comes from the coil. Should it actually be that the coil ground wire should just be attached to one of the wires from the switch and not also screwed onto the grounding tab? Would the switch work then?


 more than likely the key housing is fried.


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## threeputtpar (Jan 16, 2014)

If the key cylinder is the culprit, wouldn't it be more likely that it would have failed in the off mode making it impossible to start the engine? I'd think that it would be engineered to be a failsafe and not a fail runaway engine.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

threeputtpar said:


> If the key cylinder is the culprit, wouldn't it be more likely that it would have failed in the off mode making it impossible to start the engine? I'd think that it would be engineered to be a failsafe and not a fail runaway engine.


 a switch will fail in either position. does not matter.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Grunt said:


> Those key switches if using a metal key have a tendency to corrode internally from water entering the key slot. One wire will go to ground, such as a ring terminal on the recoil housing. The second wire will go to a nylon or plastic insulated block on the recoil that connects to the ignition coil kill terminal and is isolated from ground.


One of the two wires screwed to the shroud be "insulated" from ground using a non-conductive block. Testing the switch will show .000 on the meter if the switch is good and in the off position which will kill the motor. If your meter shows anything but .000, the switch is open and allowing the engine to run regardless of key position. You could put on a cheap toggle type switch for less money than a key switch if you have no children to worry about starting it. My 8/24 Toro HAD a bad switch last year that would cut off the engine from vibration and it fooled me for a while thinking I had an engine problem. To test the switch and wires, start the motor and touch the two wires on the switch together, if the engine dies, you have a bad switch, if it keeps running, you have a break in one of the wires.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

threeputtpar said:


> If the key cylinder is the culprit, wouldn't it be more likely that it would have failed in the off mode making it impossible to start the engine? I'd think that it would be engineered to be a failsafe and not a fail runaway engine.


It's a nice thought but nothing is fail-safe


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## threeputtpar (Jan 16, 2014)

An update to close the loop:

So the switch was showing infinite resistance from terminal to terminal in both the on and off positions, while the two wires that connect to it were showing 0 ohms. Diagnosis: bad switch.

$11 from the local OPE shop and it's back to working properly. I think I need to work on my electrical skills since I couldn't even figure out what the DVM was telling me the first time. D'oh!


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