# HSS928 Clogging [Solved?]



## jeffNB

I have an HSS928ATCD blower that was purchased in January 2016. It replaced a 20 year-old HS828. 

We had a snow/rain weather event this week and I was dismayed when the machine clogged three times during the job. More time was spent digging packed snow out of the chute than doing the actual job.

I should note that during the twenty years of ownership of my old HS828, the chute never clogged once. If it began to clog, the best solution was to keep feeding it snow and it would clear by itself. Not the case on the HSS. 

When the job was finished and the machine returned to the garage, I was pissed. After laying almost five grand for the new HSS, I was experiencing anger and buyer’s remorse and wondered if the purchaser of my HS would sell it back to me. 

The only appreciable difference between the two machines is an added collar at the bottom of the HSS chute. That seemed to be where the clog was occurring. Plus, the collar makes it difficult to extract clogged snow. 

When you look at the profile of the chute, it seems like the top area of the collar restricts the path of the snow. Not a problem with dry snow, but a real problem with wet snow. My old HS could literally blow standing water and slush. 

I embarked on a project to remove it entirely. 










The chute was removed and I cut the collar welds with an angle grinder fitted with a cutoff wheel. It it was little effort to cut the welds. 

Here is a picture of the collar after removal. 










The chute was re-assembled to the blower and tested. I headed to the front of our lot to tackle the snowbank left from the municipal plow. It was quite wet and heavy as the temperature has not fallen below freezing since the snow event. 

The blower worked like a charm. It never clogged at any engine RPM or feed rate. Blowing a previously-blown pile of snow didn't clog, either. I could feed the snow to the point where the governor could not keep up and the engine stalled - and no clogging. 

There is a little snow "spray" with the absence of the collar. If I was doing it again (and I may), I would cut the collar to leave a bit at the bottom and the sides, especially where the chute has the relief cut near the bottom. 

I'll keep everyone posted as I continue to use it for the balance of the season.

Jeff


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## matto

Wow, interesting. And impressive


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## YSHSfan

Nice.......!
If this is the clogging complaint solution it would be an "easy fix" (IMHO) for Honda to just modify the chute base design to have an opening on the front area or to make the "collar" area of the base of the chute straight instead of tapered.


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## YSHSfan

This also clarifies that the HSS928 is NOT under-powered but the chute design is possibly the culprit of the complaints happening with the "perfect" wet/heavy/slushy snow conditions.


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## Gator9329

This would be a great solution. I wonder if I could just plasma cut the collar down a bit at a time until I find the best height. 
I like the idea of having some of the collar there so it helps keep the slush spray off the machine.


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## YSHSfan

Gator9329 said:


> This would be a great solution. I wonder if I could just plasma cut the collar down a bit at a time until I find the best height.
> I like the idea of having some of the collar there so it helps keep the slush spray off the machine.


I've seen larger machines that have a tall collar at the base but it seems to be straight pipe rather than conical or "funneled".
If it was me what I would do is remove the chute and disassemble it, cut off the "collar" part, reverse it (upside down) and weld it back on so that the "funnel" action would be away from the impeller exit and it should never clog off, but you also wont have the spill on the belts cover. Try it that way, if everything is fine, get it powder coated and it should last a long time. :laugh:


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## nwcove

very interesting, would like to know if storing the machine in an unheated shed etc, causes any issues after the mod.


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## jeffNB

hsblowersfan said:


> If it was me what I would do is remove the chute and disassemble it, cut off the "collar" part, reverse it (upside down) and weld it back on so that the "funnel" action would be away from the impeller exit and it should never clog off, but you also wont have the spill on the belts cover. Try it that way, if everything is fine, get it powder coated and it should last a long time. :laugh:


I think the perfect scenario would be to have the top of the collar tilted out so that it was parallel to the back of the chute to avoid restriction, but I think it would interfere with the 'motor cover' as Honda calls it. Makes me think that the collar was an addition late in the design cycle and they didn't want to redesign the motor cover. 

The previous-generation Canadian electric chute models (they were called HSS, too) had no collar. You can see one here: 






I will be leaving my chute wide open for the meantime and hope for similar conditions to what we had last Thursday. 

Jeff


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## YSHSfan

jeffNB said:


> I think the perfect scenario would be to have the top of the collar tilted out so that it was parallel to the back of the chute to avoid restrictionJeff


That's kind of what I tried to suggest, to have the upper part of the collar open more then its base, but I did not realize that the belts cover may need modification.

Please keep us posted as it would be really good to be sure that it is the fix for the clogging issue. 

It's a bit odd though that it only happens on HSS928 while HSS724 and HSS1332 (except the models with dual articulated chute) models have the exact same chute design and I've only seen one complain on an HSS724 (less powerful then the HSS928). But I think the HSS724 has a smaller impeller compared to the larger models.


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## (-Superman-)

Interesting. I bought my HSS928AWD last December, 2015, and was completely disappointed! I am always having to unclog the snow chute multiple times during each use. Ironically, my neighbors, who paid 3 times less for their snowblowers, never experience the clogging that I do. It's kinda of embarrassing, especially where they know I paid x3 more than they did. It's the neighborhood joke. I had come to the conclusion that the chute hole (yes I said that) was too small. Honda's efforts on their snowblowers (at the present time) are a swing and miss. Too bad the end user has become their Ginny Pig testers for their flawed designs. Now I am stuck with a useless machine. Unless the snow conditions are perfect, there is no use in using the snowblower.

BTW- Problem with your mod: there goes your 3 year warranty. But hey, if it gets the machine to work, then I guess there is no other option.


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## SnowG

I doubt that would affect warranty unless Honda could come up with a related causality for the warranty claim. Also not to be the grammar police, but the term is "guinea pig" as in laboratory animals, not pets.


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## jeffNB

(-Superman-) said:


> BTW- Problem with your mod: there goes your 3 year warranty. But hey, if it gets the machine to work, then I guess there is no other option.


Not a chance. [email protected] has already covered the subject here: 

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/72922-auger-greasing-3.html#post786041

Jeff


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## YSHSfan

jeffNB said:


> Not a chance. [email protected] has already covered the subject here:
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/72922-auger-greasing-3.html#post786041
> 
> Jeff


Yes, that modification will only void the warranty on the modified chute which is $22 + shipping, the rest of the blower is still at full warranty.

Honda Power Equipment 76310-V45-C30ZA - CHUTE *R280* (POWER RED) : CyclePartsNation Honda Parts Nation


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## Mormith

I think you might be onto something with this idea.

I've been working on a dual articulated chute mod for my HSS724 and with the old chute off I can clearly see that it tapers with the metal piece you cut out of yours.

I don't have enough posts here to post a photo but I can report that my chute is about 6-3/8" wide at the bottom and about 5-1/4" at the top of the metal piece that you cut out. Also, the distance between these two measurements (the length of the metal piece) is around 5-1/4".

It seems odd to me that there is a taper built into the chute like this and I really do wonder if this might catch wet snow and clog.

-> Ken


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## YSHSfan

Mormith said:


> I can report that my chute is about 6-3/8" wide at the bottom and about 5-1/4" at the top of the metal piece that you cut out. Also, the distance between these two measurements (the length of the metal piece) is around 5-1/4".
> 
> It seems odd to me that there is a taper built into the chute like this and I really do wonder if this might catch wet snow and clog.
> 
> -> Ken


Welcome to the forum Ken....!

I certainly see quite possible (makes complete sense) for the "perfect" wet/heavy/slushy snow to build up and pack in that "funnel" area do causing a clog. The only odd part of it is that there are reports from quite a few 928 clogging up but only one 724 and no 1332 with issues and they all share the same "funnel" chute design.

We will see if Honda does make changes at that area of the chute in the future.


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## SB83

I'm guessing that the larger chute diameter on the 928 in combination with the lower power output and snow volume in comparison with the 1332 create a unique set of conditions on this machine with sticky snow that you don't see on the others. It might only require subtle changes to flow, turbulence, surface friction, etc to fix the problem. 

The deflector cutout apparently works, as does the paddle mod. My fix was to add a piece of adhesive-backed poly UHMW film to that surface (and the rest of the snow path as well) to eliminate any surface buildup since the snow can't adhere to that stuff. 

It will be interesting to see what engineering direction Honda takes on this but redesigning a $22 chute seems the likely choice. A piece of $5 film would be an easier field retrofit but a less reliable long term solution for sure.


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## matto

hsblowersfan said:


> The only odd part of it is that there are reports from quite a few 928 clogging up but only one 724 and no 1332 with issues and they all share the same "funnel" chute design.


Make that one 1332

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103002


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## mjk1

*Well ???*

I'm new to the forum due to the need for a new SB. I have been researching SB's for a few days and this forum seems like a excellent place for real world information. All the videos of these tracked Honda's blowing light fluffy snow no matter the depth.... are just about worthless. I need some rock solid data .... to determine if $3000 of SB can even handle what is expected down here in SWMI ?
This defect in engineering blows my mind. I really want a Honda HSS928ATD however if modifying the shute is demanded to achieve normal user expectations such as the removal of ... wet, slushy,ice chunked, previously compacted, snow.... ????? with out jamming constantly , I may have to reconsider.
Yes as suggested... buying the 1332 may solve the issue however being a blue collar, working class, rust belt consumer just trying to scratch out a living makes THAT simply ... out of the question. 


The real world conditions at my house such as operating my snowblower @ WFO into the plowmans end of driveway spillage is the NORM here. I'm unusually disturbed that what I thought would be a worthy investment is turning out to be a farce.


I want to thank the OP for his solution. I may very well buy a HSS928 and modify the shute however that does not sit comfortably as a potential consumer. I shared this with my wife and she agrees that spending this amount of money on what we considered to be a superior level machine only to have to modify it before usage and/or spend even more money on the next level up.... is near insanity. 


Sorry for the rant... I do admire the solution, and am thankful for the solution and this forum however, repairing my 16 yr old Ariens with a blown up gear box is looking more lucrative.


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## Marlow

matto said:


> Make that one 1332


Make that two. Mine had an extremely hard packed clog today that I had to use boiling water to remove.


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## unvjustintime

i'll keep everyone posted on my HSS1332; I had 3/4" of slush today and used a shovel.


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## jeffNB

*Update*

UPDATE: 

We finally had a couple of inches of snow lat evening and it has been raining all day today. Perfect conditions to test the chute modification. 

I started the blower and began blowing the driveway at an engine speed just above idle to see if it would clog. It did. I increased the RPM to the max and continued blowing for about six feet and the clog was ejected without intervention and it continued to work fine. That is how my old 828 used to work. If it clogged, just keep putting the snow to it and it would eventually break free. In both cases, it seems that the clogging is more susceptible under low snow loads. Just keep feeding it snow. 

So I did a soaking-wet driveway and didn't have to stop once to use the "drop bar". I am really happy. When it clogged three times a couple of weeks ago, the snow was seriously impacted and I had to use a broken shovel handle to dig it out. 

I made a video at the EOD to show its operation. At start of the video, you can see water running down the street. I don't think that the dirty snow piled on the chute motor housing is due to the lack of a baffle that was removed. If you look closer, it is snow shedding from the chute up near the articulation. 

The video is not broadcast-quality - hard to do three things with two hands. 

Jeff


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## Bjowett

My HSS1332 did an excellent job in throwing the slush and rain soaked snow this AM, about 6"... Devoured and launched it, no clogging issues at all. My old 828 would occasionally clog in these conditions, which I consider worst case. FWIW.


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## feh

After seeing the video with the water running down the driveway, I'd be more tempted to letting it all melt that trying to blow that icy water away.


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## jeffNB

*Update #2:*

Update #2:

Had another 5cm, rain-soaked, snowfall this week. The job was accomplished without the need to stop the blower and use the drop bar to extract a clog. However, it did clog several times, but freed itself when it was kept loaded with snow. 

The augers loaded up with snow and they look like a big white barrel with serrated teeth poking out. The machine was put away in that state and now the cold WX has the snow barrel frozen solid. It's going to stay that way until its next use. 

I did get the same snow bricks that SB83 noted in his post. As he also noted, I concur that the propensity for clogging is worse with the chute is hard right. It is because the snow bricks must clear the motor housing and the headlight? 

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/104482-more-hss928-chute-observations.html

So the collar removal does prevent clogs which need manual extraction, but I believe there are other issues in the design. I sure would like to have my old HS828 back (in more ways than one) so that I could do some measurements:

- Is the rotating mass in the HSS turning slower than the HS? Did they do that to give the engine more mechanical advantage? We know the impeller is larger. Chute collar or not, something seems to be sapping the velocity of wet snow. 

- Is the HSS impeller designed differently? I do not have any pictures of my old HS to make comparisons. 

- I highly suspect the narrowed-down, rectangular snow path just below the chute. I cannot figure out why Honda did that. Was it to provide more snow velocity? It may be the case in dry snow, but not in our case with wet snow. 

- Does the snow barrel forming on the auger prevent the snow from being presented properly to the impeller? 

- Why does it work better when under full load i.e., in two feet of EOD snow, rather than a wimpy, few centimetres of snow? 

I think I need to have my wife video the chute in wet snow conditions while I am operating the machine. I'm sure she will be impressed, but I need to figure out the "anatomy of a clog". If anybody at Honda R&D wants to donate a camera to the cause, I'd be more than happy to accept. 

Jeff


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## matto

jeffNB said:


> Was it to provide more snow velocity? It may be the case in dry snow, but not in our case with wet snow.


I was wondering about that. Long narrow tubes usually shoot things with higher velocity right? 

Everyone says Honda's throw the snow so far. Did they design it to throw dry snow 70 feet instead of 50 feet, at the expense of clogging in the wet stuff?


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## drmerdp

The shape and size of the opening of the impeller housing outlet looks ideal to me based on the shape of the impeller. I've taken many mental notes of impeller designs from the impeller kits I've installed. I've seen most manufactures using a cylindrical impeller housing outlet though I never got a close look at the shape of the outlet on an HS model.

More likely then not, a simple cylinder welded onto the housing is more cost effective then a specialized shape. I wonder what Yamaha is using...


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## ih8thepackers

Wow $5k for a snowblower,and you have to cut pieces off it to get it to work properly!!!


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## Marlow

ih8thepackers said:


> Wow $5k for a snowblower,and you have to cut pieces off it to get it to work properly!!!


Agreed. It should be an absolute embarrassment to Honda!! $5400 tax in this machine cost me in Canada.

And I say this as a Honda lover. We own a 2015 civic, 2016 civic, a brand new honda lawn mower and a new hss1332 snowblower. And between us our previous 6 vehicle have been brand new civic's. So I am actually partial to Honda, but this clogging stuff has got me pissed off to no end!


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## drmerdp

When I really think about it, I feel some buyers remorse. But frankly I can fix these very manageable problems with my Honda and enjoy the fruits of my labor.

I can't reengineer the benefits of the Honda in to the alternative machines. In the mean time I'll take the good with the bad, until I eliminate the bad.


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## georgewny

Gads gentlemen, having read this thread really gives me a bad feeling about upgrading from my very old HS624 thats run nearly flawlessly for decades. One thing I value is time, seems to never be enough of it... reason I have Honda cars and products are because they are usually very well made and need only the basic maintenance to have them last many lifetimes over the competitors. For my very OLD HS624, i've only done the most basic maintenance like changing the motor oil and clean spark plug, I even think the current spark plug is over 10 years old. I spend a few hours on the machine after each season to "summer_rize" her for storage, (wash her down, drain/fill oil, clean spark plug, a shot of oil in cylinder, spray outside with WD40) and thats about it. and I bought her used for a few hundred dollars at a garage sale over 15 years ago. If now it means to upgrade and purchase a HSS928 for thousands (OMG... thousands! of dollars) and have to CUT OFF PARTS and modify the machine. That goes beyond any sane reasoning. If I had purchased a SB for that amount of dollars... and had to constantly unclog the shoot, that machine would be returned to the store where I purchased it before it even cooled down. Much less spend more time to modify a BRAND NEW machine that cost thousands and spend more time and labor on it.
I for one may just forgo any upgrade of my aging HS624, and I may actually reward her with a new spark plug for the years of excellent cost free service i've enjoyed for past decade.
I applaud those whom have the knowledge and fortitude to be so mechanical, as I certainly do not possess those skills, but to spend literally thousands of dollars on a brand new machine and then to perform a lobotomy on her just to get her to function like a $600 Home Depot special is insane. That just my 2 cents worth, and that more then I ever intend on spending on a HSS928, gonna stay clear of that bad boy.


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## Marlow

^^Georgewny - You just need to avoid the redesigned HSS models for now, hopefully Honda does something to rectify the clogging soon!! These were brand new for 2016 model year so I am sure they will start receiving the mountain of complaints soon enough(if they haven't already).

But in the meantime if you wanted to upgrade, I would just buy a 2014/15 model used. Those were GREAT machines!!


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## georgewny

Marlow said:


> ^^Georgewny - You just need to avoid the redesigned HSS models for now, hopefully Honda does something to rectify the clogging soon!! These were brand new for 2016 model year so I am sure they will start receiving the mountain of complaints soon enough(if they haven't already).
> 
> But in the meantime if you wanted to upgrade, I would just buy a 2014/15 model used. Those were GREAT machines!!


Thanks Marlow,
thats good advice...
Since its already January, and I've not even had to use my HS624 yet, I'll probably just sit back and see how it goes this season. The only thing out of the ordinary that I've had to replace was the fuel filter which I just did last week. The issue was a dried up o-ring that caused a fuel leak... Other then that, if the machine performs as she has in the past, hopefully I will not have to deal with a upgrade/replacement. But if I do sounds like I'll take ur advice and look for an Honda model older then one year.

Thanks again
appreciate your advice.

p.s. I really hope Honda reads these forums, because I for one will not purchase a new HSS model till Honda starts producing a quality machine again. Not turning my back on the brand, just going to sit on sideline and see if they get their act together.


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## jeffNB

georgewny said:


> ... reason I have Honda cars and products are because they are usually very well made and need only the basic maintenance to have them last many lifetimes over the competitors.


I feel the same, having owned Honda cars and equipment since 1979. The past year was a bad one for me and Honda. The '16 Civic I bought has been a disaster like the HSS928. 

Last week, I bought the three-year extended warranty for the HSS. Judging by the problems reported on this board, it might be a good gamble to have the extra warranty. 

Almost bought a Yamaha during the HSS production delays last season while I was waiting for my HSS. Hindsight is 20/20. 

Jeff


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## Tomatillo

Have you tried windshield ice melt? Maybe some IPA?


Marlow said:


> Make that two. Mine had an extremely hard packed clog today that I had to use boiling water to remove.


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## JnC

Jeff, great work on the fix and props for the initiative. 

A fix/recall is in order but would it solve the issue 100% and is it the sole cause of the issue in the first place? I guess thats what Honda has to figure out first before taking the steps to rectify the issue. 

IMO the impeller to chute opening may also have a hand causing this issue. 

Notice the HSS series opening, seems to be 5"X5" square










and here is the HS series opening, roughly 3"X5"










Being that the engine speed remains the same for all GX models, I feel like the motor is working harder to push more snow out of the chute for the HSS series compared to the HS series. It may not be an issue with the snow is light and fluffy but when you are trying to work with heavy wet stuff, especially if you still have the chute collar, it may be hard for that snow to get flung out of opening and it keeps falling back in only to clog the chute after a little use.


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## YSHSfan

An interesting fact is that the HS1336 US and Canadian models have that collar as well (although seems smaller). 
Do they clog as well?

US HS1336










Canadian HS1336










While the engine speed on the new HSS series engines would likely remain the same, I think that the impeller speed had been slowed down via different size pulleys to make up for the impeller diameter increase while keeping the about the same impeller tip speed.

Time will tell what the final answer to the the clogging issue is once it is 100% addressed.


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## Marlow

jeffNB said:


> I feel the same, having owned Honda cars and equipment since 1979. The past year was a bad one for me and Honda. The '16 Civic I bought has been a disaster like the HSS928.
> 
> Jeff


I have a '16 civic touring model as well. Haven't had any problems whatsoever with that though. Just bought a new Honda lawnmower this summer as well, no issues. My last 4 cars dating back to '01 have all been Honda's. I am loyal to them, so the fact that Honda didn't even so much as respond to my complaint has me a bit annoyed. 

I think for now I am just going to install an impeller kit and see if that solves it. Don't really want to do any cutting as a first step. That will be my last resort.


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## DriverRider

JnC said:


> Jeff, great work on the fix and props for the initiative.
> 
> A fix/recall is in order but would it solve the issue 100% and is it the sole cause of the issue in the first place? I guess thats what Honda has to figure out first before taking the steps to rectify the issue. IMO the impeller to chute opening may also have a hand causing this issue.


Another noteworthy item is the somewhat rounded corners of the previous model to the squared of the new. Cylindrical design for flowing materials I presume would always be preferred.


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## YSHSfan

Marlow said:


> I think for now I am just going to install an impeller kit and see if that solves it. Don't really want to do any cutting as a first step. That will be my last resort.


Keep us posted on how it works out.
I believe there is a member that already installed an impeller kit on and HSS928AT....?, it would be nice to hear how it is working out for him......


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## dhazelton

Wow - just looking at those servos that drive the chute. I know servos don't go bad that's a lot of connections and wiring that could go south in a wet environment. I'd pull any wiring connectors apart and give the pins a good coating of dielectric grease.


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## YSHSfan

JnC said:


> IMO the impeller to chute opening may also have a hand causing this issue.
> 
> Notice the HSS series opening, seems to be 5"X5" square
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here is the HS series opening, roughly 3"X5"


I know this is not comparing apples to apples, and I will have to try my Yamahas on wet/heavy/slushy snow and see how they do (as far as I know they are not known for having clogging issues).

What I noticed today is that the Yamahas have a very large opening while the impeller blades are similar shape to the Honda design. 
In my opinion I do not think that the larger opening will have much to do with the clogging as what throws the snow is the impeller blade ends, and they clearly are smaller then the chute opening.


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## drmerdp

hsblowersfan said:


> I know this is not comparing apples to apples, and I will have to try my Yamahas on wet/heavy/slushy snow and see how they do (as far as I know they are not known for having clogging issues).
> 
> What I noticed today is that the Yamahas have a very large opening while the impeller blades are similar shape to the Honda design.
> In my opinion I do not think that the larger opening will have much to do with the clogging as what throws the snow is the impeller blade ends, and they clearly are smaller then the chute opening.


Heres a pic of an ariens deluxe 28. Outlet shapes and sizes are pretty much on par with each other.


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## SnowG

Today my HS928TAS clogged for the first time. I've had it 3 years. I was running it slow in slushy shallow snow. When I increased the speed it filled up the impeller and pushed out the clog. That's what I expected, and what my prior Noma 27" machine used to do. 

Obviously the feed rate is a critical factor. When the snow is slush you need to load it up. Mine is the prior generation so it doesn't have that tapered chute collar.


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## Tomatillo

Thanks Jeff. It's a *great* demonstration and explanation of what worked to resolve the problem. Is your mod still working on slush? I imagine by turning the chute left to avoid the housing.


If so, is the answer a latch-able collar that can be removed for certain conditions? I can imagine that'll never happen, because in addition to protecting the housing, that extended collar provides some safety. If they put a latch there, people will placing their hands in the danger zone while the engine is running.




jeffNB said:


> It was quite wet and heavy as the temperature has not fallen below freezing since the snow event.
> 
> The blower worked like a charm. It never clogged at any engine RPM or feed rate. Blowing a previously-blown pile of snow didn't clog, either. I could feed the snow to the point where the governor could not keep up and the engine stalled - and no clogging.
> 
> There is a little snow "spray" with the absence of the collar. If I was doing it again (and I may), I would cut the collar to leave a bit at the bottom and the sides, especially where the chute has the relief cut near the bottom.
> 
> I'll keep everyone posted as I continue to use it for the balance of the season.
> 
> Jeff


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## vasttracts

(-Superman-) said:


> Ironically, my neighbors, who paid 3 times less for their snowblowers, never experience the clogging that I do. It's kinda of embarrassing, especially where they know I paid x3 more than they did. It's the neighborhood joke.


Just the kind of advertising Honda needs! I wonder how many sales are being killed by word of mouth with neighbors watching people constantly unclog their expensive red Hondas. I basically registered for this site just to thank jeffNB. I have an HSS928ATD on the way, but I would have cancelled the order and bought another Ariens if I had known about the issues and not seen this potential solution posted.

*[email protected]* , it looks like you are following this thread but not responding. Do decision-makers at Honda Power Equipment know about this deal-killing clogging problem and his fix? Honda should send every owner a redesigned replacement chute+extended warranty and send jeffNB a HSS1332ATD for doing what Honda engineers were hired to do.

The alternative would be a class action lawsuit against Honda. I would think Honda's reputation has been dragged through the mud enough this year alone between the hydro transmission recall and this flawed chute design. I also own multiple Honda products, and this really makes me sad about the brand. Latest generator I switched to Yamaha. I suppose I could still refuse delivery on the 928...


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## AriensPro1128

He responded with the official party line. I'm sure his management would not be happy if he said something otherwise.


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## CrazedGT

If there's lots of complaints I'm sure Honda will be changing something on the new models but I'm not sure if they will do a tsb for it. Would be nice from Honda. Myself I didn't had a problem.


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## [email protected]

vasttracts said:


> *[email protected]* , it looks like you are following this thread but not responding.


Been out of the office (family matters) the past few days, just now getting caught up.

Both the design and post-sale engineering teams carefully monitor dozens of data points for every model, and that includes clogging / performance issues. It's a HUGE set of numbers, and while Honda does listen and understand anecdotal reporting from customers, there has to be actual testing and then revealing data to make any possible changes. 

If/when there is enough hard data and evidence to support some action (be that updated parts, running changes, etc.) Honda will do something, you can count on that. I've been here 25 years and know the teams will do whatever it takes to make the best possible products, including service support after the sale.


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## Tomatillo

Robert, I hope your family matters are resolved well. Heaven forbid you were to take time away from a forum to tend to your own. 

Your participation here is appreciated, as it is rare that a company has such representation as you have given us here.

My observation is that we're quick to take the nice ''goodies" and complementary advice you provide, yet we fail to see that not everyone is having trouble trying to use their snow blowers as ice blowers and have not yet experienced a hard pack failure.

Then, we whip out the threat of lawsuit and all that.

You know what, I hate to make enemies with anyone on here, but I'd say go ahead and cancel your order of your 928 because you definitely won't be satisfied, no matter what. Go get an MTD and pack it with ice, then go to their forum and threaten their factory rep. See if you can find him willing to openly engage as this rep has.

:RantExplode:








[email protected] said:


> Been out of the office (family matters) the past few days, just now getting caught up.
> 
> Both the design and post-sale engineering teams carefully monitor dozens of data points for every model, and that includes clogging / performance issues. It's a HUGE set of numbers, and while Honda does listen and understand anecdotal reporting from customers, there has to be actual testing and then revealing data to make any possible changes.
> 
> If/when there is enough hard data and evidence to support some action (be that updated parts, running changes, etc.) Honda will do something, you can count on that. I've been here 25 years and know the teams will do whatever it takes to make the best possible products, including service support after the sale.


----------



## georgewny

*when you pay top dollar you expect top service*



Tomatillo said:


> Robert, I hope your family matters are resolved well. Heaven forbid you were to take time away from a forum to tend to your own.
> 
> Your participation here is appreciated, as it is rare that a company has such representation as you have given us here.
> 
> My observation is that we're quick to take the nice ''goodies" and complementary advice you provide, yet we fail to see that not everyone is having trouble trying to use their snow blowers as ice blowers and have not yet experienced a hard pack failure.
> 
> Then, we whip out the threat of lawsuit and all that.
> 
> You know what, I hate to make enemies with anyone on here, but I'd say go ahead and cancel your order of your 928 because you definitely won't be satisfied, no matter what. Go get an MTD and pack it with ice, then go to their forum and threaten their factory rep. See if you can find him willing to openly engage as this rep has.
> 
> :RantExplode:


I agree with most of what you have stated, Robert is by far an invaluable source of information and technical knowledge and is ultra fast in responding. Most other manufactures do not provide this service. But do not forget the facts here...
I am not 100% sure, but I suspect you can buy 2 or 3 MTD blowers for every one Honda.

I own a older HS-624 and was going to upgrade to the 2016 HSS series, but H3LL NO, not after reading all the crap that the owners went through, are going through and will probably experience for the next year as well.

I owned Hyundai Automobiles, Honda's, Subaru's and currently own BMW's and Mercedes and Honda's.
Like Honda vs MTD there is a price difference in what my BMW/Mercedes cost vs the Hyundai & Subaru ... And guess what, they are much better automobiles and their service and support are incredible. I believe you pay for what you get, and when someone shells out over 3 thousand US Dollars for a 2016 HSS machine and has to remove parts from it, is is the laughing stock of the block because the machine costs 2 or 3 times everyone else's and it clogs up multiple times when the others don't... Or goes into "I don't want to work mode and crawls at 1/3 it's speed"... That my friend is why most seem so upset with their new HSS machines.

Christ-O-Mighty, 
people are modifying the Chute on brand new machines to get them to run like a MTD, isn't that the most perverted insane logic you have ever heard?

"Spend 2 or 3 times the price to buy a new Honda, then rip parts of it to get it to function AS GOOD as a machine 1/3 to 1/2 the price while it's under warranty."

Maybe it's cause I am new to the forum that I don't see the beauty in spending time and money on a new machine as being fun. 

I certainly do not mind working on my 15 plus year old HS-624 and made the decision a week ago to forgo purchasing a new HSS series and will spend dollars and buy some new parts and spend some time to bring her back to near pristine condition. 
But again, only spending a couple of hundred dollars on a machine I've owned for over 15 years and purchased used at a garage sale for a few hundred dollars. 
Not a brand new machine that cost thousands.
Gads, read that
T H O U S A N D S...
and they don't function correctly
lol
its unreal
if my BMW or Mercedes as much as burps, they "Call Home" and then the dealer calls me and asks when I bring it in for a loaner while they service it, and I didn't even know there was a problem with the car... Granted I paid dearly for that as a BMW/Mercedes costs a considerable amount more then a Hyundai, Subaru or a Chevy, as so does a Honda HSS cost considerably more then a MTD. I would not expect an MTD to perform nearly as well, not have the same support from the dealer/manufacture, but at 1/3 the cost, I'd be willing to deal with that.

That's the issue here, people are paying much much more to own what they believe is a top of the line product and getting a product that is inferior. 
Its just wrong, 
I am a Honda fan through and through, have an Odyssey, new Civic, Honda Lawnmower, Snowblower, and I still recommend them to others, but I will not buy and HSS series SB nor would I recommend it to others after hearing all the "fun" current owners are having, and Honda still believes it not an issue... 
Best way to deal with that is don't buy them... that simple

If Mercedes and BMW were like that, they would be out of business, because lots of people would no longer purchase their products... I guess there are a few whom might and rip parts of them to get them to perform "as good"as a Hyundai, but hopefully that day never comes to be.

I feel for those that have purchased the new HSS series, am glad this forum is here to advise others on the issues, that's what its all about... But I am not going to purchase a product that sells at the high point in it's market and performs like "as good" or worse then the lower end products, nope, not going to happen...

For the few that have, I suspect Honda will make good, but in the mean time the current owners need to be vigilant and make noise and be heard, make sure Honda knows there is a problem and it's not just 2 or 3 people whom don't know a snowblower from a lawn mower that are saying there are issues. The threads I've read, these owners are very very knowledgeable of their machines and extremely passionate about Honda as well. So its not just a bunch of smoke an mirrors or rumors, these are real issues that need to be addressed.


----------



## Tomatillo

My point: If you don't have one that's causing trouble, then don't post about class action suits and all that because it's way out of proportion. People are vehemently kicking the snot out of Honda and posting about machines they don't even have and haven't even experienced the problems.

I own a brand new HSS1332ATD and it hasn't seen any action yet. Listening to people here who don't own them and who haven't experienced the problems, I'm d*mn near loading my machine up and cussing out the dealer, for what?

Because some people say theirs runs slow? Because my chute might get clogged?

I'll be PIFFED like anyone else when it happens, if it happens. For now, I trust that Robert is right and that there are multitudes out there that are running without incident. If mine has problems, I'll get them addressed.

Otherwise, I think I'll call my doctor and complain tomorrow about my neighbor dying of cancer. I'll demand an operation and threaten to sue him because he didn't recommend it.

Seems one **** of a lot of bitching from people who _might_ have bought a Honda, and who _might_ have the problem once their mail-order machine is delivered and they put it together, etc.






georgewny said:


> I agree with most of what you have stated, Robert is by far an invaluable source of information and technical knowledge and is ultra fast in responding. Most other manufactures do not provide this service. But do not forget the facts here...
> I am not 100% sure, but I suspect you can buy 2 or 3 MTD blowers for every one Honda.


----------



## YSHSfan

[email protected] said:


> Been out of the office (family matters) the past few days, just now getting caught up.


Hope things get better Robert.
:blowerhug:


----------



## georgewny

Tomatillo,
Some good points you bring up...
There are other ways to view the same data, as I have.
I don't need to put my hand on a hot stove to find out that it will hurt, if a few many people warn me if I touch a hot stove I will feel pain, I kinda take that as good advice.

I think you should read this thread:
"*Honda 2016+ HSS models clogging: list of forum members with complaints*"

All from members that like you have purchased the new HSS series blowers, 
all whom have spent over $3,000.00 dollars, and probbaly are not happy to admit they got taken...
just as I would not be so forth coming to admit I got ripped off either...

I ask you, if you were in the market for a new Snow Blower, and read that thread (I will post a few of the bullets from it below)
Would you still purchase your Honda?

Am guessing logic would prevail and you'd either purchase another brand, or a older Honda or refurbish what you currently own.
If only one person from Las Vegas Nevada (cause they get terrible snow storms there every week) was bitching, then I'd be in your court and say people are bitching about no good cause. 
But the people whom are voicing their concerns, do not appear to be competitors trying to sink the Honda product, they honestly seem upset that they paid dearly for a inferior product and worse much worse
the manufacture is stating there is no problem, that is the issue.

I honestly believe there are multiple issues, not just one, and the new owners have become "guinea pigs" in a what appears to be a extremely poorly roll out of a product before it was ready for prime time.

And if many people, not me, many owners of the new HSS series are getting the run-a-round from the dealers / manufacturer saying, "OOOO Heck, there isn't a problem, all these owners are just like Chicken Little, and the Sky really isn't falling..." 

Tomatillo, it just seems to many very knowledgeable owners of the product not very happy.
I do not invite a class action suit, as I suspect Honda will in time realize there is are issues, and correct them, but H3ck to state that everything is fine is just wrong.

here is what I promised above, just a few of the bullets from the "*Honda 2016+ HSS models clogging: list of forum members with complaints*" thread:

-
_After about 10 minutes of using the Honda, I gave up. The chute kept clogging up. I have to keep clearing the chute. I am going slow and still it is clogging. I finally parked the Honda and used my 15 years old Ariens 1028. Did not clog once.

-
I never had my old machine clog even in wet heavy snow - never ever - This machine gets clogged up in the chute - I was so frustrated with cogging during this last 5 inch snow storm that I shoveled rather than having to unclog for 4th time. Even my old 724 never clogged like this.

-
My new 928 also had some power issues but by far my biggest problem was the shoot getting 

-
Your not the only one unhappy with the 2016 Hondas, 5 of my neighbours have the 724s, and the other 2 have the 928s, they are exactly what you described, boggy under load, sometimes cut out,

-
Having the same clogging issue with my brand new HSS 1332. I had the 2013 model 1332 and sold it just to get the new features on the 2016 model. [...] It ran in all conditions and NEVER EVER had it clog. I could shoot watery slushy snow 20 feet with that machine. The new HSS 1332 has consistently clogged 3 of the 5 times I used it.

-
The conical base of the chute seems to compact the wet stuff into a dense mass the impeller cannot eject. I spent 90% of the time clearing the chute and only 10% clearing my driveway. Meanwhile, my wife with an Ariens Compact 24 had no problems at all.

-
We had a snow/rain weather event this week and I was dismayed when the machine clogged three times during the job. More time was spent digging packed snow out of the chute than doing the actual job.
I should note that during the twenty years of ownership of my old HS828, the chute never clogged once.

-
With the long deflector and a tightening angle that further compresses thh snow, it just cant get any snow by to start freeing up the clog

-
I've emailed a formal complaint to Honda Canada regarding chute clogging.

-
Interesting. I bought my HSS928AWD last December, 2015, and was completely disappointed! I am always having to unclog the snow chute multiple times during each use. Ironically, my neighbors, who paid 3 times less for their snowblowers, never experience the clogging that I do. It's kinda of embarrassing, especially where they know I paid x3 more than they did. It's the neighborhood joke.

-
I bought my HSS928 new this fall. I've since used it 6 times, and it has clogged during 3 of these times. Always seems to be with wet/slushy snow.

-
I have a low power/clogging issue with the HSS1332 vs the HS.

-
Same here on my HSS928 bought last November. It clogs with snow and makes concrete in the chute. 
I have been running my old craftsman instead and it's moving the same snow the honda wont.

-
You can add my HSS1332ATD to the clogged list. It was 3-4" accumulation, and happened at the EOD twice. There wasn't even much slush that caused the problem.

-
I can be added to the list. [...] there is an inherent problem with th

_


Just to many owners, that would have no reason to state the above if some or most of it wasn't true.
That is what swayed me away from purchasing a new HSS series, and I've mentioned that to my friends and neighbors as well, but many of them probably would not have purchased the machine anyway, mostly due to its high end price when you add to it a very poor owner satisfaction rating, I don't know man, makes for a very hard sell indeed!
Maybe Honda can sell ice cubes to Eskimos as well, they sure as heck are not going to sell a 2016 HSS to me, and hopefully many others as well, then it will get fixed without a law suit...

At least that is the logic I used, for good or for bad, even Honda can't always hit home-runs, seems they struck out big time on this one.


----------



## AriensPro1128

georgeny. I have an Ariens and no intention to replace it so I have no skin in the game. You use pretty strong language such as riiped-off and taken. Both of those words imply intentional to me. How many thousands of HSS blowers do you think Honda has sold the past two years and how many complaints are there, a few dozen? A member (Mr Rockfish) joined last year to complain about quality of the Honda housing. He stated at the time he also bought a new Ariens. He is back this year stating he bought a 2017 Ariens and is having problems. I am impressed. Three new blowers in two years or maybe it is all not true. You can tell a lot about the poster by what he writes. I doubt Honda has struck out. I agree with post #51.


----------



## georgewny

AriensPro1128 said:


> georgeny. I have an Ariens and no intention to replace it so I have no skin in the game. You use pretty strong language such as riiped-off and taken. Both of those words imply intentional to me. .


No umbrage meant by me at all, totally not my intent at all. I use the information in forums like this to assist in repairs of products I have and to guide myself on new purchases.

Unfortunately am not a writer, so maybe my word choices of "ripped off" or "taken" sound sarcastic, maybe "disappointed" or "not happy" or possibly "upset" would be better suited. 

But I think you are missing the bigger point, there obviously are problems with this series of blowers, there is no doubt about that at all, and for the manufacturer to act like an ostrich and stick it's head in the sand and tell us everything is peachy is wrong.

All of us whom have Honda's buy them because of Honda's reputation and their products are always highly rated. What I am saying here is this is not a typical Honda product, it has problems, if you don't believe that. Well then you will not agree with my opinion.
I believe there is are issues, to many owners are reporting that. Many will not, as they may feel embarrassed stating that they have an inferior machine and paid top dollar for it.
So it helps no one here or outside this forum to ask that those voices not be heard.

Honda will fix the problem, though you seem to think there aren't any issues, I believe the opposite. My belief has lead me down a path to refurbish my old Honda rather then spend thousand of dollars on the highest priced series of machines that may or may not have issues. I opted for the safer course of action. For those whom have the information in this forum, I do not think any or many of them will purchase a new HSS series now. And for those whom have purchased them and have used them, not sitting idle in the garage, they need to be very very vocal when they experience any issues as many of them surely will and already have.

I believe the current politically correct term is "transparency" or what ever that means.
Let the facts fall where they may and if there is an inherent problem in the design of the chute and/or transmission Honda should acknowledge that and correct it as well.
And I might add, I fully expect that Honda will do that, they are not a fly-by-night company. 


Not attacking anyone, just want to know the facts. And when one party is telling us
"Everything is peachy, no problems" and others are stating "... am the laughing stock of the neighborhood", I suspect there is some truth to both sides, and if I am correct that would even lend more credence as to why Honda should be more forthright.


There are problems, some have been reported, some have not, and some probably are not having issues (Case in point, the HSS13xxx above that hasn't run yet, no problems there) . But that does not mean there are no problems...

Openness, stating the facts that's what I am asking for.

And to ask you a question, if you just paid over 3 thousand dollars for a brand new Snow Blower, would you 
- perform a lobotomy on her and remove parts from the shute in order to get your new top of the line SB to perform like your 8 year old blower?
- Contact your dealer and see what they could do?
- Contact the manufacturer and report the issue?
- Do nothing and just take in stride and just assume all newly manufactured products do not perform as well as older products (Refrigerators comes to mind)


Me personally, and I've already stated this in other posts, if that happened to me
that 3 thousand plus snowblower would be back at the dealership I had purchased it before it even cooled down.
Am not going to spend more time, more money, more aggravation on the product, just return it and look for something else.

Thankfully, because of this forum, I did not have to do that...


----------



## Tomatillo

Brilliant post. Bright, analytical mind.

Thanks



AriensPro1128 said:


> georgeny. I have an Ariens and no intention to replace it so I have no skin in the game. You use pretty strong language such as riiped-off and taken. Both of those words imply intentional to me. How many thousands of HSS blowers do you think Honda has sold the past two years and how many complaints are there, a few dozen? A member (Mr Rockfish) joined last year to complain about quality of the Honda housing. He stated at the time he also bought a new Ariens. He is back this year stating he bought a 2017 Ariens and is having problems. I am impressed. Three new blowers in two years or maybe it is all not true. You can tell a lot about the poster by what he writes. I doubt Honda has struck out. I agree with post #51.


----------



## vasttracts

Tomatillo said:


> My observation is that we're quick to take the nice ''goodies" and complementary advice you provide, yet we fail to see that not everyone is having trouble trying to use their snow blowers as ice blowers and have not yet experienced a hard pack failure.
> 
> Then, we whip out the threat of lawsuit and all that.
> 
> You know what, I hate to make enemies with anyone on here, but I'd say go ahead and cancel your order of your 928 because you definitely won't be satisfied, no matter what. Go get an MTD and pack it with ice, then go to their forum and threaten their factory rep.
> :RantExplode:


The class action suit would be against Honda Power Equipment to fix their faulty design, not a suit against [email protected] I thought that was obvious, but perhaps I wasn't clear.

Why would anyone threaten or sue robert? He's great.

The fact of the matter is that if you do a search for HS928 or HS828 clog/clogging, there are virtually no reports of problems. The same cannot be said of the 2016 models, and in fact there is a growing list of people with issues on this site. One can claim it's just a few isolated incidents, but then why are there nearly no reports of earlier models clogging? It should be at least a similar failure rate per model year if the problem is just isolated random events.

Not everyone is going to have a clog with a 2016, and many people are very happy with their 2016 models, but it's also hard to deny that there are many more clog reports from 2016 than from previous years of Honda snowblower models.

It's probably a simple fix, but Honda needs to at least acknowledge the problem, and support existing customers. If not, well...

Back to robert. In fact, [email protected] is literally one of the reasons I've bought Honda equipment in the past. To have someone as knowledgeable as him on forums shows what kind of company Honda is. I just hope they take action soon on the 2016 line.


----------



## taxihacker

I ran my 2016 Honda HSS1332ATD 3 times this year no clogging what so ever I live on main road where plow pile ups are big at end of Driveway went through it like butter even did my neighbors no Troubles!!


----------



## Normex

Greetings to all, First I am an Ariens user and had clogging issues as well but I have rectified my situation by adding an impeller kit and since had no clogging issues even with water where it gets thrown more than 20 ft.
So first thing to do is measure the distance from the end of the impeller blade to the housing.
If you have a 1/4" gap or more then you need the impeller kit.
Please note you should measure the gap in many places as the distance may not be the same.
You should ask [email protected] if installing the kit might hamper the warranty first.
Do a search on impeller kit and you will get many that it is a god send.
Don't ask why it isn't done at the manufacturer just do it after checking with Robert first.

Good luck to all,

Norm


----------



## Tomatillo

It's sort of what I'm saying here ... I did a little digging and found that the complaints for the HSS clogging are almost exactly the same as they were for the HS. Almost exactly. 


That's why I'm saying that all this talk about suing Honda is, well, as they say ... *"rotsa ruck! You gonna need it!"*

Glad you like your HSS. So far I like mine just fine, too.




taxihacker said:


> I ran my 2016 Honda HSS1332ATD 3 times this year no clogging what so ever I live on main road where plow pile ups are big at end of Driveway went through it like butter even did my neighbors no Troubles!!


----------



## Tomatillo

So did you accept delivery on yours and have you used it yet?


Let us know how it goes.


Cheers!






vasttracts said:


> The class action suit would be against Honda Power Equipment to fix their faulty design, not a suit against [email protected] I thought that was obvious, but perhaps I wasn't clear.
> 
> Why would anyone threaten or sue robert? He's great.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that if you do a search for HS928 or HS828 clog/clogging, there are virtually no reports of problems. The same cannot be said of the 2016 models, and in fact there is a growing list of people with issues on this site. One can claim it's just a few isolated incidents, but then why are there nearly no reports of earlier models clogging? It should be at least a similar failure rate per model year if the problem is just isolated random events.
> 
> Not everyone is going to have a clog with a 2016, and many people are very happy with their 2016 models, but it's also hard to deny that there are many more clog reports from 2016 than from previous years of Honda snowblower models.
> 
> It's probably a simple fix, but Honda needs to at least acknowledge the problem, and support existing customers. If not, well...
> 
> Back to robert. In fact, [email protected] is literally one of the reasons I've bought Honda equipment in the past. To have someone as knowledgeable as him on forums shows what kind of company Honda is. I just hope they take action soon on the 2016 line.


----------



## georgewny

*I guess only time will tell or sure if there are issues or not*



vasttracts said:


> The fact of the matter is that if you do a search for HS928 or HS828 clog/clogging, there are virtually no reports of problems. The same cannot be said of the 2016 models, and in fact there is a growing list of people with issues on this site. One can claim it's just a few isolated incidents, but then why are there nearly no reports of earlier models clogging? It should be at least a similar failure rate per model year if the problem is just isolated random events.
> 
> Not everyone is going to have a clog with a 2016, and many people are very happy with their 2016 models, but it's also hard to deny that there are many more clog reports from 2016 than from previous years of Honda snowblower models.
> 
> It's probably a simple fix, but Honda needs to at least acknowledge the problem, and support existing customers. If not, well...
> 
> etc etc etc
> I just hope they take action soon on the 2016 line.


Sounds to me there are people whom have very passionate feeling pro/con on this model, so I guess I agree to disagree with the pros is kinda all I am saying.

Honda does have a tsb for the issue with the drive lever staying engaged, 
so that's fixed.

Some seem to still be experiencing the transmission issue where it just randomly slows to a crawl then resumes again after some time to "rest".

And the clogging issue is probably somewhat caused by operator technique & snow conditions and possibly the physical collar in the chute which some have removed to correct the issue.
Now there obviously others that don't have the clogging issue. So I guess only time will tell for sure.

Honestly the tranny issue would bug me way more then the clogging issue. I suspect the new HSS machines will get retro_fitted with a reservoir similar to what the older HS models had on their handlebar. It may be only select owners, or it may be all of the machines, only time will tell for sure on this as well.

Not a Honda hater here, nor am I a Honda lover(checking underwear) yep not Honda Red and no big "H" on them. Just want the best darn product I can get with my limited dollars.

Don't hate Honda, don't love Honda, I just made my decisions based on information from threads I read here. If everything would have been peachy, or even just one or two complaints, then I'd just blow it off. But just seems like to many "not very happy campers" out there. But yet again there also appears to be lots of "happy campers as well". 
Like anything, probably lots of truth on both sides of this subject.

If the tranny does have issues, I would view that as a larger concern/issue.
Such as, how do the owners get it fixed as quickly as possible with as little downtime considering its the winter.
And will Honda extend the warranty on the tranny if indeed a modification is required.
Plus how will the owners whom don't have the means to transport these large machines get them to the dealership? Even my HS weighs in at 185 lbs. and that's a lightweight compared to the HSS's that weigh in at 230 plus pounds some over 260 lbs.

That's kinda all, hoping for the best for everyone.
am giving olive branches to all...


----------



## Tomatillo

On the transport speed, I understand it was resolved by Honda in all but a few cases before the machines were delivered to the customer.


No matter what I say here, it seems, you'll have a feeling that Honda has wronged the world somehow and is shirking its responsibility. The HSS928 is their most popular 2 stage and is sold in Canada, Japan, Europe, and ... New York. 


How many of those owners do you believe are posting here about how much they love their machines and aren't having trouble?


With that, I'm not sure what it is keeping you from buying one, but ... don't be afraid. Come on in, the water's fine.


H*ll, how many F150s or Silverados out there are in the service bay today? America's top selling pickups. Ford should be sued, says the Toyota owner. I'm not going to buy one of your pickup trucks now, and you should be embarrassed! Whatever.


Now tag-team with your comrade who doesn't have one either ....


Have a good one, George. I look forward to your ... verbal generosity and your simultaneous whoms and underwear references. ;-) (Seriously laughed hard at that! Thanks.)




georgewny said:


> Sounds to me there are people whom have very passionate feeling pro/con on this model, so I guess I agree to disagree with the pros is kinda all I am saying.
> 
> Honda does have a tsb for the issue with the drive lever staying engaged,
> so that's fixed.
> 
> Some seem to still be experiencing the transmission issue where it just randomly slows to a crawl then resumes again after some time to "rest".
> 
> And the clogging issue is probably somewhat caused by operator technique & snow conditions and possibly the physical collar in the chute which some have removed to correct the issue.
> Now there obviously others that don't have the clogging issue. So I guess only time will tell for sure.
> 
> Honestly the tranny issue would bug me way more then the clogging issue. I suspect the new HSS machines will get retro_fitted with a reservoir similar to what the older HS models had on their handlebar. It may be only select owners, or it may be all of the machines, only time will tell for sure on this as well.
> 
> Not a Honda hater here, nor am I a Honda lover(checking underwear) yep not Honda Red and no big "H" on them. Just want the best darn product I can get with my limited dollars.
> 
> Don't hate Honda, don't love Honda, I just made my decisions based on information from threads I read here. If everything would have been peachy, or even just one or two complaints, then I'd just blow it off. But just seems like to many "not very happy campers" out there. But yet again there also appears to be lots of "happy campers as well".
> Like anything, probably lots of truth on both sides of this subject.
> 
> If the tranny does have issues, I would view that as a larger concern/issue.
> Such as, how do the owners get it fixed as quickly as possible with as little downtime considering its the winter.
> And will Honda extend the warranty on the tranny if indeed a modification is required.
> Plus how will the owners whom don't have the means to transport these large machines get them to the dealership? Even my HS weighs in at 185 lbs. and that's a lightweight compared to the HSS's that weigh in at 230 plus pounds some over 260 lbs.
> 
> That's kinda all, hoping for the best for everyone.
> am giving olive branches to all...


----------



## georgewny

Howdy Tom,
( _olive branch in hand_ ) don't shot....
lol

Anyway, the point I was making is kinda superfluous now, as we know for sure there were problems, Honda is now fixing them *after they left the factory and have been purchased by end users*.

My entire point was, I was considering buying new or rebuild my old, and after having read all the negative threads. Me, whom (_you may not believe this_), actually have a great deal of respect for Honda, (_yes its true_).
How could I, or for that matter anyone purchase a new HSS series during that timeframe when some many bad threads were appearing? Thats my point... I feel I made the best decision given the information at hand.
3 to 6 months from now, when the HSS series are iron-clad, heck yeah, it will be a great machine to buy!
no question about that!

But why did it take them so so so so so long to fix them? ( better yet, why did they even leave the factory?). Not a HSS expert, so I dont know when these went on sale, but I am guessing it was way before December of 2016, and if they were sold late 2015 or early 2016, then that just sad state of affairs to have a product of this price point doing damage to the companies reputation.

Thats my feeling.
When the lease on our 2016 Civic is over, we'll get another... when our Odyssey dies, will probably downsize to a CRV.
Just as when my HS-624 needed some much needed attention, I looked and researched the HSS... well we all know what happened after that.
lol

anyway
_Peace be with you_
Good luck with your machine.

I'll probably asking lots of advice over the summer when I attempt to do some rebuilding on her.


----------



## Tomatillo

Who could argue with the best avatar on the Interwebs!


Not me!


Have a good one.




georgewny said:


> Howdy Tom,
> ( _olive branch in hand_ ) don't shot....
> lol
> 
> Anyway, the point I was making is kinda superfluous now, as we know for sure there were problems, Honda is now fixing them *after they left the factory and have been purchased by end users*.
> 
> My entire point was, I was considering buying new or rebuild my old, and after having read all the negative threads. Me, whom (_you may not believe this_), actually have a great deal of respect for Honda, (_yes its true_).
> How could I, or for that matter anyone purchase a new HSS series during that timeframe when some many bad threads were appearing? Thats my point... I feel I made the best decision given the information at hand.
> 3 to 6 months from now, when the HSS series are iron-clad, heck yeah, it will be a great machine to buy!
> no question about that!
> 
> But why did it take them so so so so so long to fix them? ( better yet, why did they even leave the factory?). Not a HSS expert, so I dont know when these went on sale, but I am guessing it was way before December of 2016, and if they were sold late 2015 or early 2016, then that just sad state of affairs to have a product of this price point doing damage to the companies reputation.
> 
> Thats my feeling.
> When the lease on our 2016 Civic is over, we'll get another... when our Odyssey dies, will probably downsize to a CRV.
> Just as when my HS-624 needed some much needed attention, I looked and researched the HSS... well we all know what happened after that.
> lol
> 
> anyway
> _Peace be with you_
> Good luck with your machine.
> 
> I'll probably asking lots of advice over the summer when I attempt to do some rebuilding on her.


----------



## BostonMA

Same issue with my HSS1332, clogged last most of the times, while my neighbor had to help me out with $1000 Ariens snow blower. Also seems have speed issue, only 2 speeds, either very fast, or very slow. Very disappointed with the purchase.


----------



## Kielbasa

I'm just using this post for the photo, but to me, the height, size and shape of that exit hole opening bothers me. But I would almost bet a nickel that if you waxed the inside of that exit hole, it might help clogging issue.

Maybe just... maybe where the snow can not stick, the snow can not clog. 



drmerdp said:


> The shape and size of the opening of the impeller housing outlet looks ideal to me based on the shape of the impeller. I've taken many mental notes of impeller designs from the impeller kits I've installed. I've seen most manufactures using a cylindrical impeller housing outlet though I never got a close look at the shape of the outlet on an HS model.
> 
> More likely then not, a simple cylinder welded onto the housing is more cost effective then a specialized shape. I wonder what Yamaha is using...


----------



## rearaghaerh

georgewny said:


> No umbrage meant by me at all, totally not my intent at all. I use the information in forums like this to assist in repairs of products I have and to guide myself on new purchases.
> 
> Unfortunately am not a writer, so maybe my word choices of "ripped off" or "taken" sound sarcastic, maybe "disappointed" or "not happy" or possibly "upset" would be better suited.
> 
> But I think you are missing the bigger point, there obviously are problems with this series of blowers, there is no doubt about that at all, and for the manufacturer to act like an ostrich and stick it's head in the sand and tell us everything is peachy is wrong.
> 
> All of us whom have Honda's buy them because of Honda's reputation and their products are always highly rated. What I am saying here is this is not a typical Honda product, it has problems, if you don't believe that. Well then you will not agree with my opinion.
> I believe there is are issues, to many owners are reporting that. Many will not, as they may feel embarrassed stating that they have an inferior machine and paid top dollar for it.
> So it helps no one here or outside this forum to ask that those voices not be heard.
> 
> Honda will fix the problem, though you seem to think there aren't any issues, I believe the opposite. My belief has lead me down a path to refurbish my old Honda rather then spend thousand of dollars on the highest priced series of machines that may or may not have issues. I opted for the safer course of action. For those whom have the information in this forum, I do not think any or many of them will purchase a new HSS series now. And for those whom have purchased them and have used them, not sitting idle in the garage, they need to be very very vocal when they experience any issues as many of them surely will and already have.
> 
> I believe the current politically correct term is "transparency" or what ever that means.
> Let the facts fall where they may and if there is an inherent problem in the design of the chute and/or transmission Honda should acknowledge that and correct it as well.
> And I might add, I fully expect that Honda will do that, they are not a fly-by-night company.
> 
> 
> Not attacking anyone, just want to know the facts. And when one party is telling us
> "Everything is peachy, no problems" and others are stating "... am the laughing stock of the neighborhood", I suspect there is some truth to both sides, and if I am correct that would even lend more credence as to why Honda should be more forthright.
> 
> 
> There are problems, some have been reported, some have not, and some probably are not having issues (Case in point, the HSS13xxx above that hasn't run yet, no problems there) . But that does not mean there are no problems...
> 
> Openness, stating the facts that's what I am asking for.
> 
> And to ask you a question, if you just paid over 3 thousand dollars for a brand new Snow Blower, would you
> - perform a lobotomy on her and remove parts from the shute in order to get your new top of the line SB to perform like your 8 year old blower?
> - Contact your dealer and see what they could do?
> - Contact the manufacturer and report the issue?
> - Do nothing and just take in stride and just assume all newly manufactured products do not perform as well as older products (Refrigerators comes to mind)
> 
> 
> Me personally, and I've already stated this in other posts, if that happened to me
> that 3 thousand plus snowblower would be back at the dealership I had purchased it before it even cooled down.
> Am not going to spend more time, more money, more aggravation on the product, just return it and look for something else.
> 
> Thankfully, because of this forum, I did not have to do that...


Bought a HSS928 this week. Honda hasn't fixed the problem.


----------



## NL snowmover

Used my new HSS928 today in heavy wet snow, worked like a charm really pleased with the purchse.


----------



## TomHodge

Growing up in the snow belt region of Upstate NY I learned at a young age that dry snow could not be compressed into a "killer" snowball - it just crumbled under increased pressure. Wet snow would become rock solid when packed harder. 
It seems as though my HSS929's inverted chute restriction compresses the wet snow into a solid mass that just becomes harder and harder to eject. Maybe forcing more snow helps eject it, but not always.


----------



## Marlow

TomHodge said:


> Maybe forcing more snow helps eject it, but not always.


Yes, it always helps. It may not prevent 100% of clogs, as that's an impossible feat - all snowblowers are prone to clog under the right circumstances.


----------



## leonz

A couple of simple physics things come to mind with walk behind snow casters by way of using a railway rotary snow plow as an example 

The upgraded design of the UPRR rotary snow plows uses 4 electric motors to rotate the snow fan to clear the snow it encounters on the railroads right of way. These rotary plows are equipped with steam generators to provide the melting power needed to keep the snow moldboards free of ice and snow so they can be moved in and out to gather loose snow or to plow a wider path on the right of way. 

The current UPRR rotary plows use four electric motors to rotate the multiple blade snow fan and are powered by the trailing B units Medium Voltage(<600 volts AC power) that is provided by the power cables attached directly to the rotary plows electrical control system. 

The Leslie rotary snow plow is essentially a single stage snow thrower with either left or right discharge that shaves the snow pack and clears it at the same time depending on the snow pack depth which in turn affects its speed of advance.

The Beilhack railway snow clearer is a single stage snow caster using twin snow clearing discs equipped with snow and ice breaking propellers and a second set of gear driven boom mounted snwo and ice breaking propellers that enable it to break snow and pack up to fifteen feet wide and beyond on the second pass with the snow clearing discs extended laterally to their full width. 

As equipped it can discharge to the left or right or forward from 20 degrees from horizontal across 160 degrees back to 20 degrees at the opposing stopping point with its shorter twin chutes and spouts.

When equipped with the center mounted extended chute with the hydraulic spout it can discharge snow beyond 180 degrees left or right as well as forward. 

*

The key to their success is that they have four snow scoops on each disc and an ice and snow breaking propeller that allows the snow ans ice to be broken in its smallest component before it is scooped and discharged out of the twin hydraulically controlled chutes and spouts which are larger in open area than the snow scoops depth to allow the now scoops on each clearing disc to work at a very high rate of rotation speed. The boom mounted snow and ice breaking propellers alos aid in breaking the snow into its smallest piece aiding the snow clearing head with its four scoops to cast the snow away at a high rate of speed and usable torque through its hydraulic to mechanical gear driven drive train.


*



Any track drive or wheel drive snow blower has its limits with regard to the available torque it can generate to create the power need to spin the impeller to clear snow with the power it has bolted to the frame. 


The key is simply breaking the snow and ice pack into its smallest bit to get rid of it and dealing with the heat generated by the rotation of the impeller paddles which is also absorbed by the impeller housing which in turn acts as a heat sink due to the rotation of the impeller and its friction which is created by the rotation of the paddles while clearing snow and ice. 


Toro has overcome a lot of this by creating the cavity next to the impeller housing in its newer units that does two jobs, the first by reducing clogging by allowing all the snow it encounters to be pushed aside as the impeller spins and second by casting the remaining smaller volume of snow and ice entering the impeller housing tossed out through the chute and spout while it advances in the snow pack.

It is breaking the snow pack with the cross auger and throwing the smaller remainder out of the chute and spout quickly while any overflow is simply being pushed aside by into the cavity created in the cross auger housing by the impeller paddles at the same time allowing the impeller paddles to work with less effort.

By designing the cross auger housing in this manner it meters the amount of snow entering the impeller housing and ejecting any excess snow to the side allowing the impeller to throw the snow out of the housing an through the chute and spout at a faster rate. 

IF everyone had a frankenstine blower with a V twin Honda or V twin Yamaha engine in it would need a track drive and snow clogging would not be an issue as the available torque transmitted to the impeller would be huge and reduce clogging to a minimum if it clogged at all. 

Yamaha is using a slick sheet material that is used to line the impeller housing and the lower chute and it aids in clearing the snow ejected by the impeller paddles. 

The impeller housing and cross auger housings are the simplest of heat sinks and using slick sheet material to line these housings would solve a lot of problems and create a lot of good will for the builders of these things as they would not clog so much simply because the snow is being melted by the friction created from the impact of the cross augers cutting and compressing the snow to the center of the cross auger housing and the impeller fans constantly rotation impacting and ejecting the snow and ice until the warmed snow and ice can no longer be moved and as a result the plugging occurs. 


If a walk behind snowblower had an narrow width impeller or two narrow width counter rotating narrow paddle/vanes in the impeller housing and it had a solid cross auger to deliver a metered amount of snow pack it would work very well and bury the neighbors mailbox across the road. 


It takes a lot to build these things for the average consumer to be able to buy them and they cut corners where they should not cut corners by simply not using slick sheet material to line the impeller housing and the cross auger housing to convey the snow more effectively as the center of the snow blower is clogged due to the impellers inability to cast the snow effectively due to simple resistance which creates heat which causes melting of the snow pack. 


But with everything it comes down to cost per unit so the consumer has to deal with any potential or actual failings of the snow blowers design.

If they used twin counter rotating impellers with a chute as wide as the width of the single impeller it would require a small belt driven gearbox which would make the snow thrower longer and heavier but it would deliver more usable torque per horse power due to the use of a gear reducer as the impeller vanes/paddles would be smaller in width allowing for faster ejection of the snow as it enters the impeller housing.

Rotary lobe blowers use the same principal to move air and gasses at low pressures and to also create vacuum conditions using spur gears driven by one one gear with the opposing gear always trailing and allowing the lobes to operate without impacting each other by the correct positioning of each lobe when the blowers are assembled prior to the gear sets being installed and tack welded to prevent them from slipping and the lobes becoming damaged and destroying the blower housing 


That being said an $8,000.00 is well out of reach of many consumers and perhaps mutual ownership of the machine by an HOA may be an option having block parties to clear snow from every residence.


----------



## TomHodge

I regret buying my hss928aatd. It replaced a 17 year old JD 1128DDE. The JD would get choked by the salt-loaded, slushy, sandy crap at the end of the driveway but all I needed to do was pause, let it catch up and continue. I had never run into the solid packed mess that this Honda creates at the collar. Has to be a bad design that Honda doesn't recognize, or refuses to admit. I really thought that Honda engineering was better than that.


----------



## RIT333

TomHodge

Shoot me a PM with your location and prices,and I might be interested in taking your POS off your hands. I live in Northville (Southern Adirodack) and Schenectady. 

Hopefully your "Upstate NY" definition is not Yonkers !


----------



## TomHodge

Saratoga. But not giving up on it up yet.


----------



## TomHodge

jeffNB said:


> I have an HSS928ATCD blower that was purchased in January 2016. It replaced a 20 year-old HS828.
> 
> We had a snow/rain weather event this week and I was dismayed when the machine clogged three times during the job. More time was spent digging packed snow out of the chute than doing the actual job.
> 
> I should note that during the twenty years of ownership of my old HS828, the chute never clogged once. If it began to clog, the best solution was to keep feeding it snow and it would clear by itself. Not the case on the HSS.
> 
> When the job was finished and the machine returned to the garage, I was pissed. After laying almost five grand for the new HSS, I was experiencing anger and buyer’s remorse and wondered if the purchaser of my HS would sell it back to me.
> 
> The only appreciable difference between the two machines is an added collar at the bottom of the HSS chute. That seemed to be where the clog was occurring. Plus, the collar makes it difficult to extract clogged snow.
> 
> When you look at the profile of the chute, it seems like the top area of the collar restricts the path of the snow. Not a problem with dry snow, but a real problem with wet snow. My old HS could literally blow standing water and slush.
> 
> I embarked on a project to remove it entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The chute was removed and I cut the collar welds with an angle grinder fitted with a cutoff wheel. It it was little effort to cut the welds.
> 
> Here is a picture of the collar after removal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The chute was re-assembled to the blower and tested. I headed to the front of our lot to tackle the snowbank left from the municipal plow. It was quite wet and heavy as the temperature has not fallen below freezing since the snow event.
> 
> The blower worked like a charm. It never clogged at any engine RPM or feed rate. Blowing a previously-blown pile of snow didn't clog, either. I could feed the snow to the point where the governor could not keep up and the engine stalled - and no clogging.
> 
> There is a little snow "spray" with the absence of the collar. If I was doing it again (and I may), I would cut the collar to leave a bit at the bottom and the sides, especially where the chute has the relief cut near the bottom.
> 
> I'll keep everyone posted as I continue to use it for the balance of the season.
> 
> Jeff



I am wondering is this is still working for you.


----------



## TomHodge

Marlow said:


> Yes, it always helps. It may not prevent 100% of clogs, as that's an impossible feat - all snowblowers are prone to clog under the right circumstances.


I used the technique of increasing speed and forcing more snow in and all that happened was the engine lugged down and the belts got really hot.


----------



## tabora

TomHodge said:


> I used the technique of increasing speed and forcing more snow in and all that happened was the engine lugged down and the belts got really hot.


If your HSS is less than 10-12 operating hours old, it really hasn't reached its full potential yet...


----------



## Marlow

TomHodge said:


> I used the technique of increasing speed and forcing more snow in and all that happened was the engine lugged down and the belts got really hot.


Needs more power. Time to mod the carb main jet. Mine is 13hp so I don't have that issue.


----------



## TomHodge

missileman said:


> Tom you are not alone they same thing happens to me and the snow was of a powder/fluffy type.Never for once expected it to load /bog down under those conditions.It see,s this 9 hp engine dosen't have the guys to get the snow out of the chute and bogs down,very disappointed.I spoke with the local Honda Rep, who tells me it will get better once it has more hours on it.Fingers is cross,it has to improve a lot from what I experienced,it was about to stall out,before cut back the drive speed.


I am going to experiment with the mineral spirits and pure silicone calk mixture. If its dries smooth and slippery after painting on a snow shovel, I'll paint the chute. Looking into re-jetting with #90 or #92.


----------



## Marlow

missileman said:


> Tom you are not alone the same thing happens to me and the snow was of a powder/fluffy type.Never for did I expected it to load /bog down under those conditions.It seems this 9 hp engine doesn't have the guts to get the snow out of the chute and bogs down,very disappointed.I spoke with the local Honda Rep, who tells me it will get better once it has more hours on it.Fingers is cross,it has to improve a lot from what I have experienced,*it was about to stall out,before I cut back on the drive speed*


And what does that tell you? 

I don't know how much experience you have with snowblowers, but you're always going to have to adjust your speed depending on the depth and density of what you're moving. There is nothing wrong with that, that's just how it works. You must seriously have your local Honda rep drove nuts!!


----------



## TomHodge

Marlow said:


> And what does that tell you?
> 
> I don't know how much experience you have with snowblowers, but you're always going to have to adjust your speed depending on the depth and density of what you're moving. There is nothing wrong with that, that's just how it works. You must seriously have your local Honda rep drove nuts!!


I started using a Bobcat blower in the late 60's, and John Deere blowers from '74 till this year. All would choke up on slush but after a short pause they would blow the slush out. Until now, I very rarely needed to use a stick to clean them out.


----------



## Marlow

TomHodge said:


> I started using a Bobcat blower in the late 60's, and John Deere blowers from '74 till this year. All would choke up on slush but after a short pause they would blow the slush out. Until now, I very rarely needed to use a stick to clean them out.


Ok. But this wasn't the context of what I was saying in the post you quoted.. at all. Nothing to do with clogging on slush.. he almost stalled because clearly he was going too fast for what he was moving. I bet your bobcat and john deere would react the same in that circumstance, they all do.


----------



## Marlow

missileman said:


> .I did a lot of research before purchasing ,but obvious I didn't look far enough and I have to deal with my mistakes and live with it.Hopefully the Rep. is correct in saying it will perform better once it has some hours it.If not it is what it is,Great to know you are enjoying your Honda Purchase.
> I had mentioned to him about re-jetting,he wouldn't comment on it,I like to do it, *but try to make a 9 hp engine perform like it's a 11 or 12 hp just dosen't cut it for me.*I would think quote /unquote that the jet in those carbs is designed to operate under the specs.for a 9 H P engine,and by enlarging it,wouldn't it, make the engine work harder than what it is designed to do.


I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. You are only trying to make the engine perform to its potential. The theory is these run lean, you're just trying to offset that is all. Try it, if you don't like the results just put the stock jet back in, no big deal. Nothing ventured nothing gained!

At the end of the day your options are to sell it, trade it, live with it as is or modify it to suit your satisfaction. Any decision you make is not going to alter your lifestyle or make or break you, so I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.


----------



## tabora

Again, if the motor doesn't have 10-12 operating hours on it, your expectations need to be adjusted downwards. During break-in, a light hand on the drive control is called for.


----------



## TomHodge

Marlow said:


> Ok. But this wasn't the context of what I was saying in the post you quoted.. at all. Nothing to do with clogging on slush.. he almost stalled because clearly he was going too fast for what he was moving. I bet your bobcat and john deere would react the same in that circumstance, they all do.


True, but unlike my Honda, they cleared themselves


----------



## leonz

TomHodge said:


> True, but unlike my Honda, they cleared themselves



:bowing:opcorn:


----------



## AriensPro1128

i am glad the old snow blowers were self-clearing. I wonder how many, many people lost fingers and hands using them.


----------



## Marlow

TomHodge said:


> True, but unlike my Honda, they cleared themselves


Mine clears itself too, there is a knack to it. I once had the same mindset towards my machine as you do now, but trust me you'll learn it once you get more experience/hours logged on it and it won't be an issue.


----------



## TomHodge

AriensPro1128 said:


> i am glad the old snow blowers were self-clearing. I wonder how many, many people lost fingers and hands using them.


If you have an Ariens Pro 1128 it is probably similar to my old JD1128DDE made by Ariens in 2001. I rarely, if ever had a clog that needed me to shut off the machine and clear it.


----------



## AriensPro1128

I do. It is a 924508 from 2002. It struggles mightily but does eject solid bricks that simply fall to the side when they ar tall enough. I am still on the original belts that haven't required adjustment or replacement to date much to my amazement as my driveway is 200' long with a parking area for 6 cars. I also do 200 or 300 feet of the end of my private road once in a while.

I used an Ariens 910 model from the mid 60s as a teen and then a 824 that I purchase new in 1989. Both of those clogged.


----------



## TomHodge

In the years I owned it, I replaced the blower shaft bushing , one belt and cleaned the carb once. Oil change and new plug every year. still running strong when I sold it. My main problem was my forearms getting beat up when blowing the snow plow crap. At 70, I needed something a bit gentler on the arms. Tracks are much smoother. Don't think I ever used the wheel lock.


----------



## AriensPro1128

I will pull the belt cover to check the impeller bearing in the spring. All I have done is change the oil and one new plug. I put a healthy dose of Seafoam in every fillup and haven't had any carb problems. I am 67 and have a fused neck. My driveway is uphill to the road. I use the differential lock occasionally. It has a 12 volt starter. I can't use the pull start, I am trying to figure out why I am not enjoying my golden years.


----------



## leonz

AriensPro1128 said:


> i am glad the old snow blowers were self-clearing. I wonder how many, many people lost fingers and hands using them.



My dear father inlaw lost the tips of three fingers :crying:


----------



## TomHodge

Re-reading this topic I realized that it has been over a year and there has been no response from Honda! I find that not surprising, their machines sell well. So this spring I'll butcher the chute and re-jet the engine in order to do what Honda should have done. Not ready to throw away $3000 or subject someone else to this blower.


----------



## FullThrottle

Tom 
They probably will tell us it Operators error if they did get back,And if you did re-jet your carb, they probably will void your warranty if you still have any left.I see where Marlow complained about his clogging in previous post and now he says he as no clogging/stalling issues but then again I saw a post where he is replacing his jets .Why would he change the jets if he dosen't have a clogging/stalling problem?



TomHodge said:


> Re-reading this topic I realized that it has been over a year and there has been no response from Honda! I find that not surprising, their machines sell well. So this spring I'll butcher the chute and re-jet the engine in order to do what Honda should have done. Not ready to throw away $3000 or subject someone else to this blower.


----------



## TomHodge

FullThrottle said:


> Tom
> They probably will tell us it Operators error if they did get back,And if you did re-jet your carb, they probably will void your warranty if you still have any left.I see where Marlow complained about his clogging in previous post and now he says he as no clogging/stalling issues but then again I saw a post where he is replacing his jets .Why would he change the jets if he dosen't have a clogging/stalling problem?


 My post was meant to show my disappointment with Honda, not to comment on any other members here. I thought they were an reliable company, responsive to their customers. I now know better..


----------



## drmerdp

FullThrottle said:


> Tom
> They probably will tell us it Operators error if they did get back,And if you did re-jet your carb, they probably will void your warranty if you still have any left.I see where Marlow complained about his clogging in previous post and now he says he as no clogging/stalling issues but then again I saw a post where he is replacing his jets .Why would he change the jets if he dosen't have a clogging/stalling problem?


He may be a blow hard, but I see no harm in anyone modifying or improving their machines. Especially something as benign as upping the main jet. 

There is truth to his argument. Like any machine, proper operating techniques take a little practice, and they may differ from one machine to another.

Straight up denying that there is any issue and letting all the blame fall on the operator is a different story.


----------



## TomHodge

FullThrottle said:


> Tom
> They probably will tell us it Operators error if they did get back,And if you did re-jet your carb, they probably will void your warranty if you still have any left.I see where Marlow complained about his clogging in previous post and now he says he as no clogging/stalling issues but then again I saw a post where he is replacing his jets .Why would he change the jets if he dosen't have a clogging/stalling problem?


Given their reaction to clogging, I am not holding my breath on future warranty issues.


----------



## tabora

I remain amazed that people try to compare the performance of a fully-broken-in machine to one that is out-of-the-box new. I am certain that the older machines referred to as non-clogging probably had similar less-than-optimal operating characteristics when they were first used, experiences long since forgotten by their owners, or never experienced at all if they acquired the machine from the original owner.

Attached is a typical HP vs RPM Dyno Chart for a newly built motorcycle engine... I'm glad my HSS1332 is almost through the break-in period and is performing much better than last spring. The larger jet can only help make it MORE of a snow beast!


----------



## Jae0

tabora said:


> I remain amazed that people try to compare the performance of a fully-broken-in machine to one that is out-of-the-box new. I am certain that the older machines referred to as non-clogging probably had similar less-than-optimal operating characteristics when they were first used, experiences long since forgotten by their owners, or never experienced at all if they acquired the machine from the original owner.
> 
> Attached is a typical HP vs RPM Dyno Chart for a newly built motorcycle engine... I'm glad my HSS1332 is almost through the break-in period and is performing much better than last spring. The larger jet can only help make it MORE of a snow beast!




I agree that post break-in, my HSS928 does seem to churn through the snow better. The threads all said “just wait and see when you get to 10-12 hours on the machine” and I have to agree.


----------



## northeast

12 hours to gain how much more performance 5% 10%? If re jetted the performance increase is immediate and significant. I know personally waiting 12 hours for a slight performance increase was not an option. The machines had to be a whole lot better and increasing the main jet did just that.


----------



## FullThrottle

My HSS928 main jet is a #85,what is the ultimate jet size, to get the best performance out of it.



northeast said:


> 12 hours to gain how much more performance 5% 10%? If re jetted the performance increase is immediate and significant. I know personally waiting 12 hours for a slight performance increase was not an option. The machines had to be a whole lot better and increasing the main jet did just that.


----------



## northeast

.002 larger then stock is what is working best.


----------



## northeast

The other thing that really helps is increasing the rpm’s up to 3900. I don’t run my machines wide open all the time but it’s nice to have the option when needed.


----------



## RedOctobyr

northeast said:


> 12 hours to gain how much more performance 5% 10%? If re jetted the performance increase is immediate and significant. I know personally waiting 12 hours for a slight performance increase was not an option. The machines had to be a whole lot better and increasing the main jet did just that.


Besides, it doesn't seem to me the one will prevent the other, I don't think you have to choose between the two (waiting until after break-in, and re-jetting). 

If the engine produces more power after break-in, that's awesome! But it seems like also using a larger jet will merely add to that gain, and won't *prevent* a proper break-in. So why not re-jet immediately, or after an hour, if you want?


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## northeast

I agree IMO the engines will last longer if you give them a proper fuel to air ratio. I pulled the plugs on my machines after the last storm and at .042 the gx390 is definitely not too rich. They may even be a bit lean still, however I am going to leave them there for a while.


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## FullThrottle

Thanks for your advice Northeast!
So you say a #87 seems to be the size that gives you the best performance overhaul.my service manual indicates that RPM should be 3600 plus or minus 150 rpm.You say crank the RPM 3900 wouldn't that be pushing the engine a little harder than it's designed for. Also do you know if Honda sells the #87 main carb. jet? 



northeast said:


> .002 larger then stock is what is working best.


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## superbuick

The engine can handle 3900 rpms with ease.


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## northeast

Go carts are running stock gx engines at 5500 rpm modified they push 14,000 rpm.


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## northeast

I brought mine up until it hit the electronic governor(4000 rpm) then backed it off just a bit so 3900 or so.


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## RedOctobyr

Holy CRAP. 14,000?!?? That's wild, for an engine typically running around 3600. Do you know what kind of power increase they're getting?


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## northeast

The gx390 pushes 55 hp at 14000!!!!!!!


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## TomHodge

I re-read this thread periodically and find myself getting mad all over again. I didn't realize that Honda sold Alpha/Beta products when I bought my HSS928 last fall.


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## tabora

TomHodge said:


> I re-read this thread periodically and find myself getting mad all over again. I didn't realize that Honda sold Alpha/Beta products when I bought my HSS928 last fall.



What the heck do you mean by Alpha/Beta products? Honda (all divisions) does a **** of a good job engineering products and then they release them when they deem them ready for market. (IMO) All manufacturers sometimes make a minor mistake when they try to move the bar upward; doesn't mean they didn't make an honest effort to make their product better.


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## tabora

northeast said:


> The gx390 pushes 55 hp at 14000!!!!!!!



Yes, but with a $300 billet flywheel and it's a radically different use. 

Snowblowers run at pretty much a constant RPM under heavy load alternating with no-load conditions for up to hours at a time. Karts run at varying speeds over a range of RPMs with relatively light loads for relatively short periods. Typical Sprint duration does not normally exceed 15 minutes. Speedway kart races range in length from 4 laps for a trophy dash, to 20 laps for a main event. While endurance races can last for an extended period, ranging from 30 minutes up to 24 hours, it's still mostly light loads at high RPMs.

In building engines, I would think the requirements for a snowblower are more like a generator than a kart.

Kind of like comparing a 600BHP Cat vs a 600BHP Lambo. Different apps. I don't need my blower to travel at 100MPH, just want the snow to exit the chute at that speed.


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## TomHodge

tabora said:


> What the heck do you mean by Alpha/Beta products? Honda (all divisions) does a **** of a good job engineering products and then they release them when they deem them ready for market. (IMO) All manufacturers sometimes make a minor mistake when they try to move the bar upward; doesn't mean they didn't make an honest effort to make their product better.


 I mean that Honda should have tested their product on snow conditions typical for the geographic areas that they market to.


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## FullThrottle

Didn't I see here on this post ,where Honda had sent engineers to Boston area to address the clogging issues with the types of weather they have there.If they did I am quite interested in what their findings where and what they plan to do about the clogging issues. 





TomHodge said:


> I mean that Honda should have tested their product on snow conditions typical for the geographic areas that they market to.


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## TomHodge

FullThrottle said:


> Didn't I see here on this post ,where Honda had sent engineers to Boston area to address the clogging issues with the types of weather they have there.If they did I am quite interested in what their findings where and what they plan to do about the clogging issues.


In my opinion it is a few years too late. Many companies don't release a product until it's been thoroughly tested.


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## leonz

If they were serious about it they would be sending them to the Canadian Maritimes all winter to solve the issue. 

Yamaha started selling their beautiful snow mules in the Canadian Maritime Provinces again based on the type of snow they have there as its almost the same consistency of the snow they have in the northern part of the main island of Honshu and Hokkaido Island.


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## tabora

TomHodge said:


> In my opinion it is a few years too late. Many companies don't release a product until it's been thoroughly tested.



That must be why those "other companies" have NEVER had a product recall or service bulletin?:wink2:


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## leonz

I never had a recall notice on the 2 Isuzu trucks I owned before this one which is my third.
It was made here in the states by GM and assembled in Shreveport, Louisiana in 2008 which was the last year they were offered as an Isuzu pickup truck based on the Chevrolet Colorado Chassis. 

I had to have the the heater/air conditioner control system replaced the first year I owned it but other than oil changes and tires and legacy costs like fuel and insurance it has been a good truck.
I am shoping to hold onto it until I can no longer drive. By that time I will invest in a Kubota RTV1100 and make it road/farm legal to travel to town when we need to.

When I bought it in 2010 it was a 2 year old New Jersey Repo that the dealer bought as used since it was in mint condition with 2,012 miles on it and I bought it for 12 and change. 
I have put 95K miles on it now. I haul a 2 ton dump trailer to do many tasks including hauling coal home from the coal dealer and taking dead ash to the transfer station and brush to the compost pile at the transfer station and big tree limbs and trucks to the town brush dump.


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## RIT333

Seems like "we" have gotten way off topic. Let's keep this thread as a way to hold Honda's feet to the fire on their HSS blunder, and how they plan to resolve it.


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## leonz

I swayed a little bit driving the snowblower bus but never reached the cliff edge :^0

If Isuzu made small walk behind snow blowers with the high quality that they make their trucks they would surpass Honda and be a close second to Yamaha in my opinion.


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## leonz

I looked at the Honda site today to look at their new snow mules and it appears that they have eliminated the cross brace and retained the lower plate that concentrates the flow of snow up into the chute. They did not line the chute or impeller housing with a slick sheet material.

I guess we will just have to wait and see how well they do when the snow "fur" flies this snow season to judge things.


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## tabora

leonz said:


> ...it appears that they have eliminated the cross brace...


What is the "cross brace" that you're referring to?


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## leonz

One or more of their models had a thick piece of sheet metal bent like a piece of angle iron above the concave plate that is welded to the base of the chute that is used to concentrate the flow of snow up through the chute.

I do not remember the model number(s) that had this cross brace.


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## TomHodge

leonz said:


> One or more of their models had a thick piece of sheet metal bent like a piece of angle iron above the concave plate that is welded to the base of the chute that is used to concentrate the flow of snow up through the chute.
> 
> I do not remember the model number(s) that had this cross brace.


Do you have a link or image of the change?


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## leonz

Hello Mr. Hodge,

None of the new 2018-19 models I looked at on their snow blower page do not appear to have any cross bracing in the chute BUT they still have that (*&^%$^&*(*&^% rolled plate that is welded to the bottom portion of the chute that concentrates the snow and ice chunks as they exit the impeller housing.

I guess if it was me that rolled plate steel would be the first thing that goes.


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## tabora

leonz said:


> None of the new 2018-19 models I looked at on their snow blower page...


Where are you looking? The https://powerequipment.honda.com/snowblowers page is still showing the 2017/2018 brochure. Since Honda has not yet released the clogging service bulletin per my prior post in that thread https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1592759-post26.html, I would doubt that current production incorporates it yet...

Still have no idea what "cross brace" you could be talking about. All the US HSS models have been pretty consistent to date in the chute components.


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## tdipaul

this is the best image on the site I can see. What is different?



and this one


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## RIT333

I think leonz has been sniffing too much fluid film. Sorry Leon !


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## leonz

What I said was this: 

There no longer appears to be a cross brace near the base of the the chute on any of the 2018-19 models and they have left the welded convex sheet metal piece in the base of the chute that concentrates the flow of snow and ice being ejected out off the impeller housing and I would remove it.

I hope that clarifies things.


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## tabora

The HSS chute components have not changed since their debut in 2015/16, as far as I can tell. That will likely change shortly once the clogging service bulletin mods are released (modified collar height/angle?). I have never seen anything that I would describe as a "cross brace" on any of the U.S. HS models either; they just had a very short collar at the base of the chute.


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## leonz

One of the members has a honda that had the cross brace and I remember seeing a youtube video about the cross brace and the clogging issue in the same video. The Video may be in the honda forum here but I do not remember when it was posted.

Installing an impeller kit would solve it for sure anyway.


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## vmax29

The exhaust shroud looks a bit different in the photos. Hard to see from that angle.


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## TomHodge

If the Honda site is showing new year models, the clogging feature is still in the chute.


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