# Keep fingers away lesson..



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Ouch. 

Injured man reminds others to follow directions on snowblowers | KSL.com


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

You can't say it enough and yet you know it's going to happen to someone out there. :facepalm_zpsdj194qh:facepalm_zpsdj194qh


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

All I can say is* DUH!*:smiley-confused009:

I even worry about using my tool for clearing the clog.
I use an old piece of a broom handle cut to length, it works.

But I would think that my old broom handle (tool) could be turned into a projectile and launched back at me. That is always on my mind when/if it becomes clogged.

Doing something like that is just plain stupid if you ask me!?:smiley-confused009:
Maybe the snowblower's manufacturer should put larger warning labels on it?
With blinking lights, maybe a siren that goes off if it detects body heat?

You watch the video and hear John Deere's name being mentioned?
I bet they liked that, you think she would have just said ALL snowblowers.:wacko:


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## caddydaddy (Dec 10, 2014)

The 5th person that day at the hospital! Wow! I wonder how many per year are injured this way?


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## GMH (Dec 31, 2013)

I use an old long handled snow brush that won't scrape ice off my windshield anymore. I have never had a clog, but it works great for cleaning the machine off before putting it back in the garage.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*GoBlowSnow* and others: Good Christmas morning coffee to you all! Thanks for posting this but, as the resident idiot, I assumed from the thread title that the blower engine was still running when the fingers were chopped off. 

*GBS*, would you mind changing your title for idiots like me to *"Stuck Impeller Torque Remains after Engine is Off ! - Chops Off Fingers!" *or something better you can think of, so that the title itself will alert* idiots like me?

*Big Ed:* I could do what the guy in the video did because I am stupid enough not to know that torque could remain in the impeller/auger drivetrain after the engine is turned off. 

I get it now that the impeller is driven by a belt, and the belt is essentially a rubber band, and that a rubber band could be wound up and then store energy when the impeller is stopped by an obstacle, and then unspring and release that energy by turning the impeller/auger when the obstacle is removed. And snow/ice alone can be the obstruction. 

Chopping off whatever was used to remove the obstacle.

If you guys could some how insert the video into the thread that would be great too. And finally, for as long as I am around here, I will try to remember to bump this thread every season to remind me and to remind others just in case I am not the only villiage idiot.

FYI, 25 years ago while thinking about a woman instead of singlemindedly focusing on the blade, I ran three fingers through a table saw which were successfully reattached by Dr. Southard at Barton Memorial Hospital in South Lake Tahoe. I never, never, never, ever want to go through something like that again.

I still touch blades all the time - when I change them on the table saw, miter saw, circular saw, chain saw, cutoff saw, grinder, etc. I only do that with the saw off and, if electric, unplugged.

But here's the difference, none of those saws store energy when the engine is off, unplugged. Apparently, a snow blower is different. And that is a surprise to me. And I am glad that I learned it through reading here and watching that video rather than learning through experience...

Thank you for posting! 



* Because America needs fewer villliage idiots and more lerts and villiage idiots like me need to keep our fingers.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

Well I just learned something new today. After the machine was off and not engaged. WOW... And I was going to take off my chute exit hole tool off of my machine because I haven't needed it, well now I am going to leave it on just incase I do happen to take something in to the bucket. Wow. That is real scary to me... hmy:


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

This is why I keep a small garden sprayer(dedicated for this) filled with .99, el cheapo windshield de-icer fluid. Heck, it's even nice to use on the cars, on frosty mornings.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

My thread on this subject from a few weeks back. This was one of my warnings about working on a machine that may have stress or be on a bind. 

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/general-snowblower-discussion/74338-please-remember-safe.html


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Thinking about having some stickers printed up, to stick near the auger housing/chute, featuring one of the choice 'mangled finger pics' and the legend "Unsafe at any speed".

We're all tempted at times but I know that'd sure stop me.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Well then I guess it is good to post something like this every now and then again. 
I am glad that it educated someone about that danger of clearing out a clog.:bestpost:
A lot don't know about the pressure that builds up if it jams and could take off a hand or foot. 
I would have thought that common sense would prevail but I guess not.
Like I said I even watch out in case my "tool" gets caught while clearing the clog.

And like mentioned, that deicer works well for melting ice.
I always bring home some straight methanol for deicing. I haul it.
I make my own windshield deicer, a 50/50 water and methanol blend no dye added. I don't like the dye getting all over my vehicle.
Mine must be good to 100* below.
I put the methanol straight into an old spray bottle, if you think the deicer works good try some straight Methanol. 

Yes, as with any machine dangers lurk. :smiley-shocked033:
Just use common sense, like...example.......,would you stick your hand into a wood chipper? A food blender? I would think not, you shouldn't need anyone to tell you that?

But I am glad that it did educate some to the danger, I did not realize that some wouldn't think about this when sticking a body part into a jammed up blower.
Like micah68kj said, there are other posts about this.

Maybe a sticky thread listing all the dangers that lurk waiting for you on the snow blower would be nice? Unless there is one already.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*This thread alone was worth the price of Premium Membership*

*Big Ed*: I edited my post to add that I still do touch blades all the time - when I change them on the table saw, miter saw, circular saw, chain saw, cutoff saw, grinder, etc. I only do that with the saw off and, if electric, unplugged.

But here's the difference, none of those saws store energy when the motor is off, unplugged, or the engine is off. Apparently, a snow blower is different. And that is a surprise to me. And I am glad that I learned it through reading here and watching that video rather than learning through experience.

It's all fun and games until the fingers come off...


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

What a waste of piano lessons. My brother lost 3 fingers at work, even though it was his left hand they re-attached them to his hand. But they had to swap the middle finger with the ring finger. His middle finger is shorter and missing one knuckle.


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## Clipperskipper (Dec 24, 2015)

I see this occasionally on older machines, you know the type that a reputable repair shop refuses to work on? Your only defense, is to shut it down completely before poking around the auger and impeller area.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

From what I understand, even with the engine shut down there could still be some tension on the impeller/auger if there is a clog? Thoughts?


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*GBS*: Yes, that is what the two-fingers missing pianist in the video said. 

His engine was off when they were chopped off. 

That is why your thread is worth the price of Premium Membership.


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

Thanks for posting. Very scary.


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## Slinger (Oct 9, 2014)

Trying to understand how the auger turns when the engine is off and auger lever is disengaged? I can see how the engine might cycle due to being in the middle of a compression stroke but the auger engagement lever would have to be stuck on or out of adjustment for it to turn, right? Doesn't it usually disengage when the drive lever is released on most machines?
Also how does an impeller "suck" one's hand in? I think what he failed to say was that his hand was already in to the point that the impeller blades would hit it.
Certainly not trying to diminish the importance of being safe in this situation, but trying to understand what had to happen for this to occur.


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## Vengenz (Apr 13, 2015)

Let's say you need to replace a shear pin because you ran something over. You get the thing you ran over out and turn the machine off and take the plug out. You need to get into the housing to replace that shear pin and manipulate the auger. What are the chances there is stored energy that would cause it to turn while you're under there trying to replace the pin?


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

Scary stuff.

Another source of danger around any OPE is the draw string on sweatpants and sweatshirts. 

A coworker (ex farmboy) had his sweatshirt drawstring get caught in a tractor-driven PTO shaft for a small grain elevator. Almost took his arm off and has gigantic scar to show for it. Lucky to be alive.


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## Ballroomblitz (Nov 20, 2015)

Vengenz said:


> Let's say you need to replace a shear pin because you ran something over. You get the thing you ran over out and turn the machine off and take the plug out. You need to get into the housing to replace that shear pin and manipulate the auger. What are the chances there is stored energy that would cause it to turn while you're under there trying to replace the pin?


Comments from some experience please?

Engine off, plug wire removed, lever not depressed….other precautions available? Manual mentioned having an extra shear pin available and mandatory to turn engine off and remove plug wire….perhaps use a broom handle to slightly move the auger from a distance to ensure no potential energy is present might be a wise move. Comments please...


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

The "stored energy" is created by the clog or jam, which jams the impeller tight.

First, imagine normal operation: There is no clog, you turn off the snowblower, the impeller, augers, and all the belts attached to them spin down together, and come to a gentle stop..the belts are not under heavy compression.

Now, imagine something jams in the augers..the snowblower sucks up a newspaper or a small log, which jams in the auger..the whole system stops FAST, as the augers and impeller jams, the belts can "stretch"..like a rubber band..they can be under tension..then when the jam is cleared, that tension can be released, quickly! it might not be a lot of movement..just a quarter inch or a half inch at most..but if a finger happens to be between the auger or impeller and solid metal when it lets go, you can get some slicing happening..

It seems that snow clogging a chute wouldn't be "hard" enough to create that tension in the belt..but a chunk of ice could get past the augers and then jam in the impeller..the owner might shut it down, look at the augers (nothing there) then start poking around with their fingers at the impeller, they loosen the ice chunk, the belt instantly relieves its "stretched" stored energy, and the impeller moves..

and I suppose its technically possible that just wet snow alone could cause the impeller to stop quickly, and be "sticky" enough to hold the impeller tight, which could give a bit of stretch to the belt, which puts the auger under tension..tension that is then released when the clog is cleared..its probably usually something more solid, a stick or a chunk of real ice..but anything can happen..

I believe its rare! but it can happen..
And I bet in a lot of cases the guy says "uhh..yeah! it was turned off! seriously! and it still took my fingers off" when it reality it *wasnt* turned off..and they made up the "it was off" story to make themselves seem a bit less stupid..

but still, I think the "stored energy" from a stretched belt can be real..and impellers can move when a clog is cleared, even with the engine off and nothing spinning at all..

might be rare and unusual..but it only takes one time to lose a finger.
which brings us back to..never clear a clog with your hand! always use a stick.

I dont think there is any actual danger of the stick being thrown out with heavy force when the impeller moves..if the stored energy let go on the stick, you would hear a "thunk", pull out the stick, and see a dent in it..but I dont think the stick can be turned into a flying projectile..

I also dont think there is any danger from a snowblower that is off but not clogged..in that case, I dont think the auger can move by itself..
even still, if you actually need to work with the auger, you can never be too safe! I would actually take off the bottom panel and remove the belts! then spin the impeller with a stick to make sure its free-wheeling..THEN work on it with your hands..you can never be too cautious.

Scot


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Use the tool, not your hand.


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

This makes me feel better about how easily the shear pins break on my blower. I think.

I'm still curious as to how the energy is stored. Stretched belt, ok, but why doesn't removal of hand from auger control lever dissipate it? It sounds like something has to be mechanically wrong with the machine for this to happen.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

wdb, didn't Scot's explanation in Post # 22 make sense ??


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## Slinger (Oct 9, 2014)

I have the same question as wdb... 
If the auger is disengaged, what is the belt stretched between? The impeller pulley and ??? There is no tension left in that belt unless the control is malfunctioning, right? AND no way that any additional engine pulley movement could rotate it further. I'm still confused...


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

If, there is a blockage that is wedged between the impeller and the housing, then there could be a shift that would be unexpected. 

Granted, it would not be a great amount of movement, but it's not worth me taking the risk. 

With regards to the belt acting as a rubber band, anything is possible. Especially with blockages, this might exacerbate other mechanical imperfections, that would allow the belt to jump off, wedge itself in, and act as the rubber band. 

It is probably 1 out of 99 times that it happens, but it does seem conceivable, and with most folks on here working on less than new equipment, it probably is more likely to happen. 

It is also quite likely that these incidents as the result of mild hypothermia. One of the symptoms of hypothermia, is less than judicious thought. So, in a rush to get back inside, they just try to get done. Probably just as advisable, to take a minute and go warm up, before you go back out to fix it.


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## weirdtolkienishf (Feb 2, 2015)

GoBlowSnow said:


> Ouch.
> 
> Injured man reminds others to follow directions on snowblowers | KSL.com


I had a snowblower suck up a bottle and jam up. Thanks to this forum I knew that snowblower blades can still be under tension even when off, so I used the jam tool that came with the machine. Luckily it wasn't under tension, but I think threads like this are informative.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

GoBlowSnow said:


> From what I understand, even with the engine shut down there could still be some tension on the impeller/auger if there is a clog? Thoughts?


Perhaps there is a different way to connect the auger to the crank of the motor on that JohnDeere, but my 1977 Toro 826 has a disengage lever for the drive belt, which makes is go very slack when disengaged. I just don't see how there could still be energy stored in the unit after you shut off the engine and "disengage" the auger belt...?

(this being said, I wouldn't risk sticking my hands in the chute anyway!)


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## Loco-diablo (Feb 12, 2015)

Very dangerous. Very scary. Many people don't realize the affects of compression in the cylinder or stored energy in other areas of the machine. "The engine is off so I'm safe to muck with the impeller and/or auger, right?" WRONG!!!! 

I'd like to see some snow blower incident statistics regarding the number of hand injuries that occur with the engine shut down. i'd bet the numbers are higher than one would think. 

The poor guy was a pianist to boot. That really sucks. I feel for the dude.

Thanks for posting.

Please help spread the word to less informed friends and family.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

Instead of adding technology to add blinking lights near the warning labels, why not just add a sensor to the machine's that can detect when force (clog) is about to occur and shutdown the machine immediately. Ever clear a driveway that had a newspaper or newspapers hiding under the snow. Ever get a newspaper clogged real good into the machine to the point, the only way your getting it out is with force. Meaning pulling, tugging, prying with a crowbar possibly trying to hit the end of the crowbar to hit the newspaper out of the impeller to unwedge it or fire, heat from a torch to try and burn it out or out least burn it as much as possible to make pulling the newspaper out possible, taking an hour to get the thing unclogged, I have and it's the most difficult thing you can end up dealing with on a snowblower. Its happened to me out least 20 times in the last 10 years doing commercial snow removal with my snowblower. If your machine gets jammed up badly with a newspaper you have to go in and retrieve it, there is no other way. But anyway this report here said 8 out of 10 people left the engine on while trying to unclog there machine. So if you shut the engine off, remove the spark plug boot and make sure the levers are disengaged on the old machine's, you'll be fine. Every time I ever had to unclog a machine that was badly jammed there was never any pressure left over after I finally got it unjammed.

The majority of patients were aware of safety warnings (77.20%) and injured themselves with the machine running (82.35%) resulting in multiple digit injury. 
-So 8 out of 10 left the engine running, there you go. Shut those engines off and pull the plugs before dealing with clogs.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

Yea but it also said in the report 8 out of 10 people left the engine running. There are times a machine gets clogged bad enough where you have to go in and get it out. Newspapers mostly. As long as you shut the engine down, pull the spark plug boot and make sure its is disengaged, particularly the older machine's then when you have no choice but to go in to unjam it you will be fine. 
The majority of patients were aware of safety warnings (77.20%) and injured themselves with the machine running (82.35%) resulting in multiple digit injury. 
-So 8 out of 10 left the engine running, there you go. Shut those engines off and pull the plugs before dealing with clogs.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

FearlessFront said:


> As long as you shut the engine down, pull the spark plug boot and make sure its is disengaged


I'd say, turn the engine off, pull the spark plug boot and wire, REMOVE THE SPARK PLUG and make sure it is disengaged, as there may be tension on the system that may release once the obstruction is cleared.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

Could someone with good research skills follow up on the status of this case. And hopefully define what actually happened?


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## 06honda (Oct 16, 2016)

With me planning on getting my first blower this season, I am glad I watched that video.


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

I work in a machine shop and years ago I seen a co-worker lose a finger.... UM Not putting my hands any place near those parts until I KNOW there free moving and not under any pressure.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

E350, your self-deprecating post probably just paid for my paid subscription. You eloquently describe the snowblower belt as a wound rubber band in the scenario you described.

This underscored how a turned-off, disengaged snowblower could still bite.

Many thanks,

Tom



E350 said:


> *GoBlowSnow* and others: Good Christmas morning coffee to you all! Thanks for posting this but, as the resident idiot, I assumed from the thread title that the blower engine was still running when the fingers were chopped off.
> 
> *GBS*, would you mind changing your title for idiots like me to *"Stuck Impeller Torque Remains after Engine is Off ! - Chops Off Fingers!" *or something better you can think of, so that the title itself will alert* idiots like me?
> 
> ...


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*tomatillo*: Thank you for your compliment, but I am not sure it is deserved. My explanation was based solely on conjecture. I mean if your impeller was stuck with a stick and your engine was stuck on the compression stroke I guess if you removed the stick from the impeller a tightened belt with a piston pushing down could cause the impeller to snap back causing the impeller to cut. But I just don't know how likely that is. That is why I would like to see what happens with the lawsuit. I do know this, I keep my fingers away from the impeller. In fact, I pretty much never ever ever put my hand down the impeller chute. Although if I do an impeller mod I am definitely taking the spark plug out of the engine to make sure there is no possibility of cylinder compression. And I move the augers a back and forth a little to make sure that there is no tension before I replace sheer bolts.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

This is one reason why I prefer a powerful single stage machine. They rarely if ever clog. The only time I had my Toro 3000 clog was from a newspaper and on this machine you can remove the belt drive cover and take tension off the belt. Then the auger is free wheeling. But that vid is good for new users of any yard power equipment to see.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Excellent thread! Should be kept up on the first page. 

I have never unclogged a machine with the motor on but have not thought of compression build up or tension. So far lucky unclogging or replacing broken shear bolts.

It only takes one mistake. Next time I'll shut off, remove spark boot and maybe jam the augers with a crow bar or at least test for tension with my bar.


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