# ST-824 impeller problem. Stuck solid.



## Lockfortyfive (Jan 11, 2017)

Long story shortend .........


Climbed a steep snowbank with my ST-824. The front bucket took in too much snow and I ended up pushing snow rather than blowing. I started rocking the machine up and down which helped to spit out short blasts of snow. While on a 45* angle, the rod that runs down from the impeller engagement handle dug into the ground. The machine went forward up the snowbank and the rod became severely bent. This caused the spring and chain, that connects the end of the rod to the lever system, to fly off into the snow. I found those parts after I realized I had a damage problem with the bent rod.


Took the machine into my shop, straightened the rod, replaced the spring and chain and all looked well. When I try the blower out on a test run the impeller will not spin. I can smell burning rubber. If I reach down into the chute, with the blower turned off and not running, I can not move the impeller. It is solid with no play. 


The compound levers, that the chain and spring hook on to, seemed OK before I replaced those two parts. I does seem obvious to me that I have jammed something solid. Tomorrow I will tip the blower up on the bucket, remove the inspection cover and take a look.


Any ideas on what is jammed and causing my locked up impeller problem?


Should I be able to reach down into the chute and move the impeller by hand, when the blower is simply sitting quiet? It seems to me that without engaging the impeller, by pushing down the engagement lever on the right hand grip, it should freewheel.


Thanks in advance.


Dan Miller


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

Did you thaw it out, could be just frozen solid


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Lockfortyfive said:


> Long story shortend .........
> 
> 
> Climbed a steep snowbank with my ST-824. The front bucket took in too much snow and I ended up pushing snow rather than blowing. I started rocking the machine up and down which helped to spit out short blasts of snow. While on a 45* angle, the rod that runs down from the impeller engagement handle dug into the ground. The machine went forward up the snowbank and the rod became severely bent. This caused the spring and chain, that connects the end of the rod to the lever system, to fly off into the snow. I found those parts after I realized I had a damage problem with the bent rod.
> ...


*If you are smelling burnt rubber that is most likely a belt problem.Might just have smoked the impeller bearing also.*


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

Is the machine stored outside? Is it possible the impeller or auger are frozen (as in with ice, not "frozen" like a stuck bolt)?

It should be possible to turn the impeller with the engine not running, but there will be some resistance as there's a brake that engages when the lever is released.

I think the best bet would be to bring the machine into your shop and remove the belt cover. Then operate the auger drive handle, and see if the levers on the back of the tractor move when you do that, and that the idler applies tension to the belt when the handle is squeezed, and releases tension when the handle is let go. Also of course inspect the belt itself.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Try Turning the impeller by hand. If it is Stuck, Place a 2x4 in the chute resting on an impeller Blade. Hit the 2x4 with a large hammer until it Frees up. Then Try to operate it.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Jackmels has tons more experience than I do, so take my comment for what it's worth (hint: mine is free). 

But if it were me, I would start by removing the belt cover and looking inside. Then, preferably, warming the machine so it can thaw, in case it's an ice problem. I'd do those before resorting to whacking it with a hammer. 

Without knowing *why* it won't turn, hitting it might simply cause additional damage. And the other steps (thawing, etc) don't require a lot of time or effort, assuming you can bring it someplace warm. 

PS, welcome to the forum!


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

use heat gun/blow dryer to melt any ice and frozen snow in the impeller housing and the auger housing.
next is a seized impeller bearing but not likely to keep shaft from turning when auger lever is engaged


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

This sure sounds like it is iced up. I have never seen snow (where I have lived) that could completely obstruct the bucket, and that tends to tell me it must have been pretty sloppy . . . and since you could not clear it due to the faiure, I'd look at frozen solid first were it me.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

They will wedge tight if you let your auger bearing get to the point where the cage holding the balls in place go to crap.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

Do you mean the bearing(s) in the gearcase, or the one supporting the shaft between the impeller and the pulley?

It always seemed to me that if the latter bearing seized, it would just spin in the housing... it's not held that firmly. But I've never experienced it so I can't say for sure.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

ELaw said:


> Do you mean the bearing(s) in the gearcase, or the one supporting the shaft between the impeller and the pulley?
> 
> It always seemed to me that if the latter bearing seized, it would just spin in the housing... it's not held that firmly. But I've never experienced it so I can't say for sure.


impeller bearing on shaft. gearcase would be ur last step once everything else is ruled out, but highly unlikely


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

Sorry, I meant the bearing that supports the impeller not the auger bearing. 

The bearing in the photo stopped the engine dead. When the balls all run over to one side, they will lock up like a Chinese finger trap. The more torque you apply, the tighter it gets.


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## Jatoxico (Jan 6, 2018)

vinnycom said:


> use heat gun/blow dryer to melt any ice and frozen snow in the impeller housing and the auger housing.
> next is a seized impeller bearing but not likely to keep shaft from turning when auger lever is engaged


Bucket of hot water is a lot faster.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

I would think long before a bearing got bad enough to lock up, it would make a hellacious noise... but I guess that noise could be drowned out by the snowblower's engine.

Fun story that sort of relates to this: a coworker once gave me a lawnmower he found at the dump. It was self-propelled, with a transmission in the rear and a shaft going out to each wheel. The shafts were carried in ball bearings held in the wheel adjusters, and had pinion gears on the end that engaged ring gears in the wheels.

Or would have... on one side, the wheel, shaft bearing, and the shaft outboard of the bearing, including the pinion gear, were missing!

I finally realized what happened is the prior owner had the bearing fail, and continued running it so long the dead bearing chewed all the way through the shaft. It cut it off so neatly it looked like it had been cut in a lathe!


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

deezlfan said:


> Sorry, I meant the bearing that supports the impeller not the auger bearing.
> 
> The bearing in the photo stopped the engine dead. When the balls all run over to one side, they will lock up like a Chinese finger trap. The more torque you apply, the tighter it gets.


the inner race of my bearing got obliterated, vid about it in my sig


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

> I would think long before a bearing got bad enough to lock up, it would make a hellacious noise... but I guess that noise could be drowned out by the snowblower's engine.


Yeah, you would think, but he thought he only needed a belt replacement. I only realized his problem when I split the blower in two and tipped the bucket on end.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Did Anyone Else Think Maybe a Rock or Something is Jammed in the Impeller? I doubt it is bearing related.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

It doesn't seem likely Jack....


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Ice . . .the new rock . . . 

I still wouldn't look at anything until it thaws and melts off . . .


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Actually Ice Frozen Augers are Very Easy to Free Up. Ice has no chance against Ball Joint Fork and Hammer, usually a couple minutes. On the Other Hand, Rocks and Other Jammed "Items" Might take some Doing. Had One with a Dog Chew Toy Jammed in the Auger that Took More than a Few Whacks to Free Up. Another Notable Mention was a Steel Dog Cable that got reeled into the rakes. That's What Happens When One Doesn't go Over the Grounds Before it Snows.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)




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## HobbyEnthuist (12 d ago)

deezlfan said:


> Sorry, I meant the bearing that supports the impeller not the auger bearing. The bearing in the photo stopped the engine dead. When the balls all run over to one side, they will lock up like a Chinese finger trap. The more torque you apply, the tighter it gets.


 I have a seized impeller, the machine is in a heated garage, so no ice. The impeller bearing does not turn. There is no movement when I try to push on the impeller. How can I confirm the impeller bearing is locked up without taking the bucket off and removing the impeller bearing.


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## 2AriensGuy (11 mo ago)

You really can't be sure, at least IMHO, unless you take it apart. Unless you have a way to look into the 1/8" space behind the impeller and in front of the housing, you just can't be sure.

My related story: elderly neighbor asked me if I could make a path to his front door, in case of an emergency. I asked him 3x, are you absolutely SURE that there are no newspapers or penny saver papers under the snow. He said insistently that he was absolutely sure that there was none.

I blew the snow and sucked in a newspaper. A fullsized wet newspaper got wedged in behind the impeller and housing. I tried cutting it out with a brand new razor knife. I tried burning it out. All to no avail. So I took it to dealer because I just didn't have time with 2 children and working full time.

It ended up costing $375, back in 1995. So I took the bill to him & being generous, said that he was responsible for half. He laughed and said he wasn't paying anything. So for the next 30 years, every single time he asked for help with something, ( which was about once a week) I brought that up and told him no. Every time he asked to borrow a tool I said yes, I have that tool but no, you can't borrow it. People are awesome.


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## HobbyEnthuist (12 d ago)

2AriensGuy said:


> You really can't be sure, at least IMHO, unless you take it apart. Unless you have a way to look into the 1/8" space behind the impeller and in front of the housing, you just can't be sure.
> 
> My related story: elderly neighbor asked me if I could make a path to his front door, in case of an emergency. I asked him 3x, are you absolutely SURE that there are no newspapers or penny saver papers under the snow. He said insistently that he was absolutely sure that there was none.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. Happy New Year.
Your advice sounds good, I will need to take the bucket off, remove the pulley, remove the bearing cover, and get a look at the impeller shaft bearing. It is likely the ball bearings have locked up in the race. This will be another project over a few hours long. Hope there is no snow on its way


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

epajnich said:


> Thank you for your reply. Happy New Year.
> Your advice sounds good, I will need to take the bucket off, remove the pulley, remove the bearing cover, and get a look at the impeller shaft bearing. It is likely the ball bearings have locked up in the race. This will be another project over a few hours long. Hope there is no snow on its way


To check the 1/8" space between the impeller and the back of the impeller housing the auger and impeller assembly must be removed as well.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

epajnich said:


> Thank you for your reply. Happy New Year.
> Your advice sounds good, I will need to take the bucket off, remove the pulley, remove the bearing cover, and get a look at the impeller shaft bearing. It is likely the ball bearings have locked up in the race. This will be another project over a few hours long. Hope there is no snow on its way


make sure there is not a rock or something behind the impeller
the bearing would have been making lots of noise prior to locking up
not likely the bearing
thats alot of work for nothing


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

should be able to bend a hacksaw blade and feel around


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

2AriensGuy said:


> You really can't be sure, at least IMHO, unless you take it apart. Unless you have a way to look into the 1/8" space behind the impeller and in front of the housing, you just can't be sure.
> 
> My related story: elderly neighbor asked me if I could make a path to his front door, in case of an emergency. I asked him 3x, are you absolutely SURE that there are no newspapers or penny saver papers under the snow. He said insistently that he was absolutely sure that there was none.
> 
> ...


$375 just to take it out? Or was something else damaged? Seems kind of steep, today it would have been 3 times that.  
I would have found the time to remove it myself somehow. 2 kids, work or whatever.
Still, not nice he didn't offer you nothing. Even 50 bucks would have been better then nothing.
If you sucked up another would you take it to a shop again?


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## 2AriensGuy (11 mo ago)

Lol, they had to separate the bucket, remove augers, just to get the impeller apart and I told them to replace the bearing as long as they were in there anyways. 

I am retired now, kids are long gone and have a brand new 21' 28"Pro for a backup. So now I have time. But I don't do front walks anymore for anyone since that day. I just do the end of driveways when we get blasted. The snowplow stuff at end of driveway is too much for most blowers, ours eats it up now with the repower. 

I'm suffering pretty badly right now from covid. If we get hammered again before I get better, I'm hoping one of the people I help, will help me. If not, no big deal, I will survive. Lol


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## 2AriensGuy (11 mo ago)

If it's not the bearing or rust or something jammed in behind the impeller, it may very well be the auger gearbox. They take a beating and most people don't check the lubrication inside it. If it wears badly and something becomes out of round, then thing don't line up and can even drop down to the point where the gears don't mesh properly and it would feel like it is locked up.


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