# What brand comes back for repairs the most



## Xilbus

Hi everyone. Yesterday I stopped at my local dealer to see some machines. They carry Toro, ariens and cub cadets. I almost left with a platinum 24

However the salesman said the Toro has a really nice joystick for the shute and a bigger intake for snow to reach the impeller. He also said that the ariens come back the most for service then the other 3 brands. 

I had a hard time believing what he said.
What do you guys think?


----------



## cranman

I don't know much about which comes back for repairs the most...but the OPE dealer near me that I do business with is an Ariens dealer, and I notice that 8 out of 10 blowers out back for repairs are Ariens....


----------



## orangputeh

Xilbus said:


> Hi everyone. Yesterday I stopped at my local dealer to see some machines. They carry Toro, ariens and cub cadets. I almost left with a platinum 24
> 
> However the salesman said the Toro has a really nice joystick for the shute and a bigger intake for snow to reach the impeller. He also said that the ariens come back the most for service then the other 3 brands.
> 
> I had a hard time believing what he said.
> What do you guys think?


Consumer reports backs up his opinion. But not sure how accurate CR is. They use actual owner feedback now so I feel there is more weight to their surveys.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

And the other part of the equation is how many of each, Toro, Ariens and Cub Cadets are in that dealers area and what is the percentage of those machines that come in for service. If you have a lot more of one brand than another it would be natural to have more in for service and repair.
And is service just service like adjustments, plug, oil change, belt ... or is it a repair ? If there are a lot of machines in for service it might just indicate you have a lot of folks with more money than time or skills.
Like a guy who drives his new Vette or Porsche around in the winter. You figure he should be able to afford a winter car but then again maybe they're only going to have it for a year or two.

The Cub is an MTD painted yellow but it's not bad and will get the job done. Personally I'd go for either the Toro or Ariens based on specs, price and warranty. Did you try the joystick and did you like it ?

.


----------



## russ01915

What are the repairs being performed. Simple adjustments after the break-in period or parts failing? Also as mentioned, how many of each brand are being sold at this dealership and what percentage of them come back for warranty repairs. That's the info I would like .


----------



## 132619

fix whatever comes in, worst is troy bilt and it twin cub followed by you guessed it ariens. why toro has less problems i sure don't know.


----------



## zandor

What tends to break on them? I'm most interested in what breaks on an Ariens since I have one (any spare parts I should keep on hand?), but curious about the rest as well.


----------



## 132619

zandor said:


> What tends to break on them? I'm most interested in what breaks on an Ariens since I have one (any spare parts I should keep on hand?), but curious about the rest as well.


shear pins and belts should keep you running


----------



## aldfam4

zandor said:


> What tends to break on them? I'm most interested in what breaks on an Ariens since I have one (any spare parts I should keep on hand?), but curious about the rest as well.


For me personally, I like to keep extra shear pins, belts and a friction disc (wheel) on hand for my Ariens and Craftsman snow blowers. If one of these parts go, I can you use my backup blower to finish snow removal, then work on the other without having to hunt for the parts; kind of a time saver!


----------



## cranman

I'm of the mind set of having a backup, and a backup backup. But I like snowblowers! I also have multiple machines at any one time for sale to bail me out.


----------



## JLawrence08648

cranman said:


> I'm of the mind set of having a backup, and a backup backup. But I like snowblowers! I also have multiple machines at any one time for sale to bail me out.


Same with me! I like a backup to the backup and also have multiple units for sale. And I have used my backup to the backup when the backup broke down! It worries me not to have 3 machines, scares me to have only 2, terrifies me to have only 1.

I also like to use the machines I have for sale, even for only one sidewalk, before they go out of here in case there is a problem, I can take care of. And I've had my main machine, my backup, the backup to the backup all fail, broken, broke belt, belt slipping, carb problem, water in the gas, didn't start, and have gone to the For Sale machines to use.


----------



## sscotsman

cranman said:


> I don't know much about which comes back for repairs the most...but the OPE dealer near me that I do business with is an Ariens dealer, and I notice that 8 out of 10 blowers out back for repairs are Ariens....



also, 8 out of 10 blowers out back for service at a Toro dealer are Toros.
and 8 out of 10 blowers out back for service at a MTD dealer are MTD's.
etc. 


Scot


----------



## cranman

sscotsman said:


> also, 8 out of 10 blowers out back for service at a Toro dealer are Toros.
> and 8 out of 10 blowers out back for service at a MTD dealer are MTD's.
> etc.
> 
> 
> Scot


I thought of that as well..that's why I mentioned it was at the Ariens dealership. I went to another repair place I go to visit nearby this morning to wish the owner Merry Christmas, and looked over the brands on the floor just repaired. 50/50 Ariens and MTD, with a lone Honda


----------



## aldfam4

sscotsman said:


> also, 8 out of 10 blowers out back for service at a Toro dealer are Toros.
> and 8 out of 10 blowers out back for service at a MTD dealer are MTD's.
> etc.
> 
> 
> Scot


Yup, Spot on Scott!


----------



## Desa

Depends of what machine is popular in you're area 50% of my neighbors have Ariens the rest are mixed brands, so when i got to my local repair shop guess what i see most in for repair you got it right Ariens


----------



## russ01915

I brought my Ford Van to the dealer for service, and guess what, all the vehicles getting repaired where Ford's. Go figure.


----------



## drmerdp

The Ariens/Toro dealer that I’m friends with has more Ariens back in for warranties and repairs. 

They say that most consumers initially want the Ariens but some are swayed by the dealers preference of Toro. 

It ends up equating to nearly equal sales of each brand, but more Ariens back for repairs. 

Still anecdotal.


----------



## jeffwoehrle

Lot of variables to consider. As mentioned, how many of what brand the dealer/service shop sells is a big part of it. Clearly, an Ariens dominant dealer will be working on more Ariens.

Also worth thinking about how many extra doodads are offered on the machine. Complexity leads to service calls, and the more complex the system, the more calls will be made. I think if I paid a few hundred extra for an automatic roof scraper (!) you better believe I'll make a stink if it doesn't work.


----------



## 132619

get a large mix due to the 3 local box stores, hd,lowes and tsc, yet the most often in are MTD brands, from the biggest two boxes are so poorly assembled to start with. 
one thing i can say about tsc is they do properly assemble, oil,fuel and test run before they line them up outside.


----------



## GoBlowSnow

How many are there for a tune up vs an actual mechanical failure? When you have a brand that sells a lot of machines, you'll no doubt see more at the repair shop for tune ups and repairs.


----------



## SimplicitySolid22

I also think if you think about it ARIENS probably has made more snowblowers out there than anyone except probably MTD which has a million different brands.


So go figure they are in the shop more than anyone else.


----------



## Bluejoe

The shop I work at had Toro, Ariens, and Snapper. Now they only carry and stock Toro line. One reason I heard was because wait time on parts. I guess with all shops you don’t place your order in till you have enough items to make it worth your order or they charge a lot for shipping just for one or several items. Most of machines come in for maintenance/tuneup for the season. Some of the machines look like they’re kept outside with old gas. The people think oh it just needs a spark plug or maybe an oil change. They all tell you it was running before it was brought in. Heck no now it needs a carburetor just to get running. Now you have to deal with the customer on telling them they need additional repairs. It all depends how the customer maintained/treated his machine.


----------



## Steve70

I agree with many above who say that whatever brand has the most on the street will probably have more in for maint / repair.

I can say this for where we live which is one of the heavier snowfall areas in the country. We live in what's considered a rural area. Most all stripes are sold here. I would say Ariens make up a good 60-70% of machine sales. That's a visual on my part, not actual. There's enough of them sold that we have 2 Ariens dealers only 10 miles apart. One of those dealers also sells Husqvarna. To me, that indicates some sort of overall satisfaction with the Ariens product given the snowfall we get. Most of the snowblowers on my street are Ariens. I know of zero major problems with any of them. My old 28 year old ST1236 is still chucking snow just fine with a new owner. Total repairs on my 1236 amounted to one belt change, one friction disc, and a couple carb cleanings over 1000s of inches of snow. My experience was what I would call trouble free. I'll be interested to see how the new 28 hydro pro works out in the quality department.


----------



## gibbs296

Steve70, you guys get real snow up there. Here, in Mpls, we get nuisance snow most of the time. Did my snow removal with a broom yesterday...


----------



## jsup

Kiss4aFrog said:


> And the other part of the equation is how many of each, Toro, Ariens and Cub Cadets are in that dealers area and what is the percentage of those machines that come in for service. If you have a lot more of one brand than another it would be natural to have more in for service and repair.
> And is service just service like adjustments, plug, oil change, belt ... or is it a repair ? If there are a lot of machines in for service it might just indicate you have a lot of folks with more money than time or skills.
> Like a guy who drives his new Vette or Porsche around in the winter. You figure he should be able to afford a winter car but then again maybe they're only going to have it for a year or two.
> 
> The Cub is an MTD painted yellow but it's not bad and will get the job done. Personally I'd go for either the Toro or Ariens based on specs, price and warranty. Did you try the joystick and did you like it ?
> 
> .



I was going to say the same thing. You may see a lot more for repair, simply because there's a lot more of them. I like the joystick, very intuitive.


----------



## Cutter

SimplicitySolid22 said:


> I also think if you think about it ARIENS probably has made more snowblowers out there than anyone except probably MTD which has a million different brands.
> 
> 
> So go figure they are in the shop more than anyone else.



I totally agree. My question is in percentages. One needs to look at total numbers of machines sold, and what percentage of each brand of machine comes back for repair. And then one also needs to look at how each machine has been maintained. Poor maintenance,storage, and user abuse is no excuse to avoid buying any certain brand of blower.:wink2:


----------



## wxman2003

Most of the people in my neighborhood own Ariens and several of them have the Ariens dealer pick them up in late fall and tune them up before winter arrives and delivers them back to the owner. The dealer gets booked up quickly so they will have a lot of Ariens in the shop in the fall. I do the tune up/maintenance myself. The dealer has the same issue in the spring with lawnmowers. Most people don't want to do any of the maintenance on their machines anymore. Fast and easy money for the dealer.


----------



## 132619

Bluejoe said:


> The shop I work at had Toro, Ariens, and Snapper. Now they only carry and stock Toro line. One reason I heard was because wait time on parts. I guess with all shops you don’t place your order in till you have enough items to make it worth your order or they charge a lot for shipping just for one or several items. Most of machines come in for maintenance/tuneup for the season. Some of the machines look like they’re kept outside with old gas. The people think oh it just needs a spark plug or maybe an oil change. They all tell you it was running before it was brought in. Heck no now it needs a carburetor just to get running. Now you have to deal with the customer on telling them they need additional repairs. It all depends how the customer maintained/treated his machine.


all to true facts man! we have to wait for enough parts to fill the min needed for shipping otherwise it's a ouch to the customer, 
another agree
to many owners just park a machine and expect it to run when needed next, sorry not with the gas we have today, pumps may say 10% when we check it ,way to often it's closer to 20 sometimes even 30%,esp.in jersey with off label brands . carbs are the main problem, for a shop it comes down to labor time, rebuild yes we can, add a hour of labor at roughly $100.00 cheaper to replace, plus the manufacturer warranties the part not us,


----------



## tpenfield

I would think the better sources of repair/reliability would be the survey-based statistics, like CR or similar sources, where the data is boiled down into percentages.


I think we'd all tend to agree that MTD brands are probably the least reliable, but it may be hard to pinpoint the most reliable brands. Of course, if you do your own wrench turning, reliability is not much of an issue. . . you'll keep it running.


What is interesting is that the CR data shows Cub Cadet and Troy-Bilt at the top of the reliability ratings (which seems counter intuitive), followed by Ariens, then Toro. Poulan and Hausqvarna as the worst.


----------



## sscotsman

tpenfield said:


> what is interesting is that the CR data shows Cub Cadet and Troy-Bilt at the top of the reliability ratings (which seems counter intuitive), followed by Ariens, then Toro. Poulan and Hausqvarna as the worst.


Actually, that is not what CR data shows, at all. 
Consumer Reports does not do reliability ratings on snowblowers.
They only "rate" them for features and operation on *brand new* machines, rating for things like ease of use, and how well they work with throwing wet sawdust. Thats it. They do not do long-term reliability testing at all. I think they only do that with automobiles.

So if you want to know how different snowblowers will compare on their *very first use*..only..then CR might be useful. If you want to know how they compare after 2 to 10 years of ownership and use, CR is useless and meaningless.

Scot


----------



## Steve70

Everybody's snowblower needs are different. For those researching the choices, I have to think that the experience of those who live in the heaviest snow areas should hold some sway in the repair area. Those machines move many many more tons (and have more engine hours) of snow than machines clearing snow in lesser snow areas (under 100" per year). Commercial operators in these lighter areas would also have a good opinion as their machines would see much higher use than individuals.


----------



## bkwudz

I think its really hard to compare repair data on snowblowers. No one knows how they are used, but for the most part they take a beating and get little to no maintenance. Im the neighborhood repair guy, and every year im fixing someones blower because they have abused it (sucking up stuff it shouldn't, smashing into stuff, going down stairs) , worked it a little too hard, (fried belts or disks) or just lack of maintenance. Most of these people are not snowblower people, they are not even power equipment people, if its got a motor, they are lost. This year i have already started 2 Ariens that wouldn't start due to being just shut off and put away last year, quick carb cleaning and fresh gas and they are good. I also had one newer toro that would't really blow snow in the little storm we had last month. The things belts were fried, and out of adjustment. 

Im not superman, but i have never (other than the areins chute issue) had a blower rendered unusable. Shear pins, worn belts yes, but usually within an hour im back at it.


----------



## 132619

sscotsman said:


> If you want to know how they compare after 2 to 10 years of ownership and use, CR is useless and meaningless. Scot


all so true scot. long term what stands up best,


----------



## Steve70

bkwudz said:


> I think its really hard to compare repair data on snowblowers. No one knows how they are used, but for the most part they take a beating and get little to no maintenance. Im the neighborhood repair guy, and every year im fixing someones blower because they have abused it (sucking up stuff it shouldn't, smashing into stuff, going down stairs) , worked it a little too hard, (fried belts or disks) or just lack of maintenance. Most of these people are not snowblower people, they are not even power equipment people, if its got a motor, they are lost. This year i have already started 2 Ariens that wouldn't start due to being just shut off and put away last year, quick carb cleaning and fresh gas and they are good. I also had one newer toro that would't really blow snow in the little storm we had last month. The things belts were fried, and out of adjustment.
> 
> Im not superman, but i have never (other than the areins chute issue) had a blower rendered unusable. Shear pins, worn belts yes, but usually within an hour im back at it.


Your point is well taken and probably will only get worse. A chunk of the generation after me...and probably more the one after that...have less and less mechanical chops because they didn't grow up having to fix stuff. They didn't build shacks in the woods, or build bikes, or fix everything they had due to necessity. That's just the way it was in the 50s/60s. Mechanical common sense is waning IMO. Properly maintaining machinery is not part of daily life for many. If it breaks..it either gets fixed by someone else or replaced. I'll be the first to admit that my generation had a segment that didn't do well with machinery, but IMO, it's worse today. 

Most on this forum probably don't fit that mold because they're here and interested. Of course, this forum probably represents a fraction of 1% of all snowblower owners.


----------



## Mike C.

sscotsman said:


> So if you want to know how different snowblowers will compare on their *very first use*..only..then CR might be useful. If you want to know how they compare after 2 to 10 years of ownership and use, CR is useless and meaningless.
> 
> Scot



The last snowblower test I read in CR,they were using wet sawdust as a substitute for snow.I've always wanted to know how well a snowblower would deal with sawdust...talk about useless.This was a report I found online for free,thankfully...I stopped buying their mag years ago.


----------



## tadawson

But yet, nobody seems to be capable of understanding that the damp somewhat fluffy sawdust can be repeatedly made with the same density as snow, thus giving a consistent material against which to test all products, unlike actual snow, which varies greatly from day to day, or even hour to hour, and cannot be relied on to even be present when needed. Perhaps not ideal, but one of very few ways to ensure a consistent comparison. . . . and far better than any other subjective 'rants by some goober' testing that I have seen . . .


----------



## tpenfield

sscotsman said:


> Actually, that is not what CR data shows, at all.
> Consumer Reports does not do reliability ratings on snowblowers.
> They only "rate" them for features and operation on *brand new* machines, rating for things like ease of use, and how well they work with throwing wet sawdust. Thats it. They do not do long-term reliability testing at all. I think they only do that with automobiles.
> 
> So if you want to know how different snowblowers will compare on their *very first use*..only..then CR might be useful. If you want to know how they compare after 2 to 10 years of ownership and use, CR is useless and meaningless.
> 
> Scot



Yes, I recall the silly sawdust throwing contest that CR had a while back. It seems they have upped their game a bit with the most recent ratings, where they actually surveyed their subscriber base. Not sure how statistically valid their respondents are, but here is a quote from their October 2018 publication. . . 



*"For our most recently published snow blower reliability survey, we polled more than 17,000 CR members who bought a new snow blower between 2011 and 2016 about their experiences with their machines. The results inform our predicted reliability score, found in our ratings of snow blowers. "*


So, it seems that they are getting more real-life input on reliability.


----------



## RedOctobyr

tadawson said:


> But yet, nobody seems to be capable of understanding that the damp somewhat fluffy sawdust can be repeatedly made with the same density as snow, thus giving a consistent material against which to test all products, unlike actual snow, which varies greatly from day to day, or even hour to hour, and cannot be relied on to even be present when needed. Perhaps not ideal, but one of very few ways to ensure a consistent comparison. . . . and far better than any other subjective 'rants hy some goober' testing that I have seen . . .


Exactly. Well-said. It's not a perfect test, but it can be controlled, repeatable, and comparable across different machines and different days. We all know that one storm to the next will be different. If you can't test machines in a repeatable fashion, then you can't make any sort of useful comparison. 

And if you want your snowblowers issue to be available at a useful time of the year (summer/fall), then it's no good if you yourself have to wait until December/January to hopefully start testing, while praying that you actually get snow. 

As far as I know, CR has done their annual-survey based reliability ratings for different products (not just cars) for years now. Apologies if I have this wrong, but I don't think that's a new thing. 

With that said, for outdoor power equipment, I put more weight on actual user feedback on forums, etc, than on CR's ratings, at least when considering the "big picture". Personally, I'd rather have an Ariens/Toro/Honda than an MTD/Poulan/Husqvarna, even if the M/P/H got a higher rating from CR. The A/T/H will probably be doing better 5+ years down the road. 

Now, for things like air conditioners, refrigerators, etc, I think CR is a great resource. Very few users can actually say "I purchased these 4 A/C's, and this one is the quietest and most efficient". User reviews saying "my brand XX is quiet" (with little basis for comparison) is less useful. But CR can compare multiple appliances in controlled conditions.


----------



## Smolenski7

I have been a CR subscriber for may years. I find their ratings and testing for reliability to be pretty good, for the most part. The products I question in terms of their reliability rankings are lawn tractors, snow blower, and cars to a lesser extent. 

Lawn tractors and snow blower are almost in the same boat. Common sense tells me that the higher end models from manufacturers like JD, Simplicity (which CR doesn't include in their testing bc of a lack of market share), Ariens, Toro, and Honda will out last anything from Troy-bilt or Craftsman for example. I have personally seen those machines (and the other products they make) and I haven't been impressed. Basically, in a nut shell, if they can't make a decent shovel then why would I think they would sell (or spec) a good machine with dozens of moving parts? 

In the end, CR only tests what sells. They're not going to test higher end models like an Ariens platinum, JD X380+, or anything from Simplicity. Those are the models that will stand the test of time, but don't get tested. As a result, CR's ratings are good for what they are, a ranking of big box store equipment, mostly, that Joe Average is going to buy, abuse, have repaired, then discard.

Now cars are totally different. CR rankings seem to be pretty spot on. However, I do question how smaller manufacturers can move up and down their list of overall brand reliability more than just a spot or two from year to year. For example, Mazda seems to move up and down that list like a kid on a pogo stick. Others, like Toyota, have been at the top for years. So, again I try to use some common sense and look for patterns. Kia, for example, has been moving up that list for several years now and Honda (believe it or not) has been dropping. So, even though I have owned several Hondas, I just bought my kids a Kia Sorento. And guess what, I'm thrilled with it......and it's a Kia. Very weird.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk


----------



## GoBlowSnow

I believe that if you stick with Ariens, Honda, or Toro- The big 3 so to speak- you'll be very pleased in the long run.


----------



## AbominableSnowman

*Careful -- Don't Overgeneralize*

To understand and appreciate the differences (or, in many cases, similarities) among brands and the reliability of brands, you have to consider several things about modern manufacturing:



Brands. A brand is just that -- a name and the style to match. While some brands are unique to their respective manufacturers, others are not. Take, for example, Craftsman. Craftsman is not a manufacturer. It is a brand. Craftsman products may be manufactured by any one of a number of manufacturers, and the quality and reliability of those products follows. Some manufacturers produce multiple brands, and the quality of those products may relate more to the manufacturer's design and assembly processes more than it does the brand name.

Components. Many manufacturers source components from common vendors. Just because a Toro is different than an Ariens doesn't mean that they do or do not have identical components. If those manufacturers source carburetor assemblies from the same vendor, there is a high likelihood that the reliability of the carburetors between those brands will be similar. That doesn't necessarily mean one brand is better or more reliable overall since different models and individual products may have components coming from different sources. There are often a large number of companies supplying various parts for a single product.

Design. A manufacturer may do its own design work, it might farm it out to a contractor, or it might share designs with other manufacturers. Those designs might be shared among brands. And if one design is good, it doesn't mean it's been well executed. And, vice versa.

Final Assembly. People tend to think a product is better if it's made in the U.S. and worse if it's made in a certain foreign country. "Made" usually refers to final assembly. People often forget or disregard the fact that components and supplies may come from a variety of locations. The location and quality of performance in assembly may or may not lead to good reliability.

Here's the point. Don't generalize brands as being "good" or "bad," or even "reliable" or "unreliable." There are too many other variables in action. Manufacturers, over time, certainly get reputations for having produced a certain quality of products. But for any individual product, you really have to evaluate its reliability using information other than simply "what brand is it?"

There are good Toros and bad ones. There are good Ariens and bad ones. And so on, and so on.


----------



## Rooskie

Considering you only have one Ariens, I can see why you need back-ups to back-ups! Get 2 1000 models and stop worrying!


----------



## sscotsman

H


AbominableSnowman said:


> To understand and appreciate the differences (or, in many cases, similarities) among brands and the reliability of brands, you have to consider several things about modern manufacturing:
> 
> 
> 
> Brands. A brand is just that -- a name and the style to match. While some brands are unique to their respective manufacturers, others are not. Take, for example, Craftsman. Craftsman is not a manufacturer. It is a brand. Craftsman products may be manufactured by any one of a number of manufacturers, and the quality and reliability of those products follows. Some manufacturers produce multiple brands, and the quality of those products may relate more to the manufacturer's design and assembly processes more than it does the brand name.
> 
> Components. Many manufacturers source components from common vendors. Just because a Toro is different than an Ariens doesn't mean that they do or do not have identical components. If those manufacturers source carburetor assemblies from the same vendor, there is a high likelihood that the reliability of the carburetors between those brands will be similar. That doesn't necessarily mean one brand is better or more reliable overall since different models and individual products may have components coming from different sources. There are often a large number of companies supplying various parts for a single product.
> 
> Design. A manufacturer may do its own design work, it might farm it out to a contractor, or it might share designs with other manufacturers. Those designs might be shared among brands. And if one design is good, it doesn't mean it's been well executed. And, vice versa.
> 
> Final Assembly. People tend to think a product is better if it's made in the U.S. and worse if it's made in a certain foreign country. "Made" usually refers to final assembly. People often forget or disregard the fact that components and supplies may come from a variety of locations. The location and quality of performance in assembly may or may not lead to good reliability.
> 
> Here's the point. Don't generalize brands as being "good" or "bad," or even "reliable" or "unreliable." There are too many other variables in action. Manufacturers, over time, certainly get reputations for having produced a certain quality of products. But for any individual product, you really have to evaluate its reliability using information other than simply "what brand is it?"
> 
> There are good Toros and bad ones. There are good Ariens and bad ones. And so on, and so on.


I disagree with most of that. 



> Here's the point. Don't generalize brands as being "good" or "bad," or even "reliable" or "unreliable."


Sure you can do that, I think everyone should do that, I think its a good idea, because its a real thing, and because it leads to better educated consumers.
Brands do have reputations, good and bad, and usually those reputations are accurate and earned. Often earned over many years, sometimes decades, and sometimes half a century. Its a *good* idea IMO to pay attention to those reputations, and take them seriously..the reputations, good and bad, exist for a reason.



> There are too many other variables in action.


hmm..IMO, no, not really. Im not really sure what you mean by that. When we are talking about overall build quality and reliability, "brand" is an excellent indicator.



> Manufacturers, over time, certainly get reputations for having produced a certain quality of products.


Right, and as I said, the reputations are usually well earned.




> But for any individual product, you really have to evaluate its reliability using information other than simply "what brand is it?


ah..but..we are not talking about "individual" products here, at all. 
we are talking about *overall* brand quality and reliability.

Sure, every manufacturer has had some "misses" and some "lemons"
I remember a friend who bought a brand-new 90's Honda Accord, she was a newly minted engineer, just out of college, and it was her first new car..
she had lots of issues with it, gave up on it, and vowed to never buy a Honda ever again!
meanwhile, the Honda Accord is (probably) the single most reliable automobile of all time! 
You cant judge an entire brand off of individual machines, good or bad.

We have to look at the entire brand overall, thousands, millions of machines as a group.
Thats what matters here..individual machines are irrelevant.

I think using "what brand is it?" as a first line of questioning is a great place to start.
Saying "im going to consider this Ariens, Toro and Honda becaause of their brand reputation" is a very smart way to start.
then look at other details, features you need, want, dont need, size, etc.

Conversely, saying "im not even going to look at this off-brand Cosco special, because ive never heard of the name, and its probably low-end Chinese junk" is also very smart, and its making a judgement call off of the brand name, and its probably a correct call. Sure, you can do more research, maybe you are wrong..but you probably arent. 

There really are quite distinct quality and reliability differences among brands, for many products..its a real thing.
Some people like to think "they are all basically the same"..it isn't true.

Scot


----------



## GustoGuy

It is not weird. Kia and its parent company Hyundai have been the butt of the automotive industry and considered a joke for several years but over the last 20 or so years they make a decent quality automobile. In fact quality among automakers is quite good that the worst car for sale today is a much better car than the worst car for sale back in the 1970's. I have a 2003 Hyundai Elantra Gt with over 429,000 miles on the original engine and transmission and I bought it when it had 91,000 miles on it back in March of 2007. My son drives it and I very well believe it could make 500,000 miles. As to Chinese made goods they have improved too. China is becoming the new Japan in that they make a variety of goods some very good products yet they make some poorly made products as well. Maintenance is key as to how long your snowblower will last and I use Amsoil synthetic oil and ATF in the Hyundai and my snowblower and my MTD which is frequently criticized brand here on this forum still works well although it is re-powered by a Harbor Freight Predator 212cc engine and the original Tecumseh is long gone.


----------



## slantback37

Back a number of years ago. the Kia Rio was given away if you bought one of there vans. The Kia was made by a North Korea company. They would always break, and you had to keep it in the shop for months, because there were no parts over here. I also had a MTD. Best 32" snow blower I ever owned. Blew a rod on it last year. I miss that good old machine.


----------



## [email protected]

I am also in da UP, buying my first snowblower, debating between Briggs &
Stratton and Ariens. I have never had a snowblower, I don't have a trailer to take it in if service is needed, and the Ariens dealer will come and get it, service it, return it (for a small fee). But the Ariens are lots more $$, is it worth it? I live in the "banana belt" (Chassell), but still get quite a bit of snow. A lot of the snow I have to clear is what is left by the plow. How does the Ariens work on that crap? I want to go with the Ariens 28 SHO, but I wonder if it will clog up too much with the plow berms??? It's a lot of money, so I am looking for any advice I can get. Thank you, "tired of shoveling Yooper".


----------



## foggysail

Could it be that more Ariens find their why into a repair shop because more of them are sold? And personally, I don’t know the answer.


----------



## Steve70

[email protected] said:


> I am also in da UP, buying my first snowblower, debating between Briggs &
> Stratton and Ariens. I have never had a snowblower, I don't have a trailer to take it in if service is needed, and the Ariens dealer will come and get it, service it, return it (for a small fee). But the Ariens are lots more $$, is it worth it? I live in the "banana belt" (Chassell), but still get quite a bit of snow. A lot of the snow I have to clear is what is left by the plow. How does the Ariens work on that crap? I want to go with the Ariens 28 SHO, but I wonder if it will clog up too much with the plow berms??? It's a lot of money, so I am looking for any advice I can get. Thank you, "tired of shoveling Yooper".


Coming from Ishpeming, I wouldn't really say you're in the banana belt! I'm guessing most reading here don't see close to what you get. I can't speak to the particular model you state, but I've been blowing snow with Ariens machines for about 50 years. Unless I tried to take too big a bucket of plow slush, I don't ever remember 'clogging up' 

I sold my 30 year old 1236 Ariens (and running just fine) last year and treated myself to probably my last machine given I'll be 68 in a few months. I'm quite happy with the 28 Rapidtrak Pro we bought last fall. I have a Briggs engine on this machine.

I find this to be a very good forum on all things snowblower. Welcome.


----------



## KevinJD325

Ran an Ariens 7/32 for many years. It never saw a shop. Annual oil change and grease auger. So I bought a new Pro Hydro 36”. Great build quality there.


----------



## tadawson

[email protected] said:


> I am also in da UP, buying my first snowblower, debating between Briggs &
> Stratton and Ariens. I have never had a snowblower, I don't have a trailer to take it in if service is needed, and the Ariens dealer will come and get it, service it, return it (for a small fee). But the Ariens are lots more $$, is it worth it? I live in the "banana belt" (Chassell), but still get quite a bit of snow. A lot of the snow I have to clear is what is left by the plow. How does the Ariens work on that crap? I want to go with the Ariens 28 SHO, but I wonder if it will clog up too much with the plow berms??? It's a lot of money, so I am looking for any advice I can get. Thank you, "tired of shoveling Yooper".


56 years in dealing with snow in Houghton here . . . pretty uncommon to get snow conditions in the yoop that clog, but in transitional temps, it can happen. 1974 10000, 1980's something 724, and current Plat 24, never had one that had any issues with UP plow piles . . .

Myself, given your choices, the Ariens is the only contender. And the dealer in Lake Linden has been our 'go to' for years - the guy in Dodgeville is kind of a tool (wanted more than list the last time I was there as well, but I think they had some changes last year . . .)


----------



## Zavie

Another vote for Ariens. As much snow as you get I'd say *minimum* Deluxe 28 SHO and you should really consider a Platinum SHO. 
Also what's this about the dealer, "the Ariens dealer will come and get it, service it, return it (for a small fee)." Why don't you just put it in your truck? Or at the very least if your truck is busy then just pop it in the trailer. Time to put away the cargo shorts for the year an get out the snow gear. Lets get busy!!!!!! Oh and BTW, welcome to the forum and we will want pics of either SHO and your truck.


----------



## gary407

*Kia not made in North Korea*



slantback37 said:


> Back a number of years ago. the Kia Rio was given away if you bought one of there vans. The Kia was made by a North Korea company. They would always break, and you had to keep it in the shop for months, because there were no parts over here. I also had a MTD. Best 32" snow blower I ever owned. Blew a rod on it last year. I miss that good old machine.


 Kia is made in South Korea and some models are made in the USA


----------



## toofastforyou

AbominableSnowman said:


> To understand and appreciate the differences (or, in many cases, similarities) among brands and the reliability of brands, you have to consider several things about modern manufacturing:
> 
> 
> 
> Brands. A brand is just that -- a name and the style to match. While some brands are unique to their respective manufacturers, others are not. Take, for example, Craftsman. Craftsman is not a manufacturer. It is a brand. Craftsman products may be manufactured by any one of a number of manufacturers, and the quality and reliability of those products follows. Some manufacturers produce multiple brands, and the quality of those products may relate more to the manufacturer's design and assembly processes more than it does the brand name.
> 
> Components. Many manufacturers source components from common vendors. Just because a Toro is different than an Ariens doesn't mean that they do or do not have identical components. If those manufacturers source carburetor assemblies from the same vendor, there is a high likelihood that the reliability of the carburetors between those brands will be similar. That doesn't necessarily mean one brand is better or more reliable overall since different models and individual products may have components coming from different sources. There are often a large number of companies supplying various parts for a single product.
> 
> Design. A manufacturer may do its own design work, it might farm it out to a contractor, or it might share designs with other manufacturers. Those designs might be shared among brands. And if one design is good, it doesn't mean it's been well executed. And, vice versa.
> 
> Final Assembly. People tend to think a product is better if it's made in the U.S. and worse if it's made in a certain foreign country. "Made" usually refers to final assembly. People often forget or disregard the fact that components and supplies may come from a variety of locations. The location and quality of performance in assembly may or may not lead to good reliability.
> 
> Here's the point. Don't generalize brands as being "good" or "bad," or even "reliable" or "unreliable." There are too many other variables in action. Manufacturers, over time, certainly get reputations for having produced a certain quality of products. But for any individual product, you really have to evaluate its reliability using information other than simply "what brand is it?"
> 
> There are good Toros and bad ones. There are good Ariens and bad ones. And so on, and so on.


In contrary with "sscotsman", I agree totally with you 100%. :thumbsup:

Claude.:smiley-char060:


----------



## Oneacer

I also stand by, am in total agreement with AbominableSnowman's statement above. ….  FWIW


----------



## Lunta

Regarding brands, I think it’s important to remember that many brands sell a range of products at different price points and quality levels.

Take some tool manufacturers, who offer entry-level products targeted at the cost-conscious customer who aspire to own something from the brand. These tools are of poor quality and no better than generic no-name versions. These products are offered simply to exploit every last bit of revenue from the brand equity. 

It’s arguable as to whether the poor quality damages the brand reputation, as customers who know anything about tools, also know that the decent quality tools from the brand are not available by paying entry level prices. So they don’t buy the cheap entry levels stuff anyway. And so what if a casual tool user buys a poor quality tool. The brand has collected the incremental revenue from the sale, and this is revenue that would never have been collected if they didn’t offer entry level priced products. And new customers are born every minute...

So what does this all mean?

It means that brand is only one small part of making a well-informed buying decision.


Edit to add: I think the brand was more important in years gone by and was a better indicator of quality level. However modern business no longer allows a brand to go unexploited. Every last drop of revenue must be squeezed out of a brand, even if that means exploiting the brand to sell lower quality versions to some customer segments.


----------



## 2.137269

good and bad from every brand, sales numbers are what every maker wants, higher the better, as to CR i read it but don't go by every word printed, sometimes it seems biased,

IMM and only imm whats in the OPE shops junk yard pile?? i ask all would that be a real indicator?


----------



## tadawson

I'd say the only valid indicator would be percent in for service by brand. Of course if you have 5000 of one brand in use and 100 or another, the 5000 will get more calls, but may well still be far better and more reliable. Same goes for the dealers scrap pile - without knowing the install base, it's meaningless . . .


----------



## Lunta

tadawson said:


> Of course if you have 5000 of one brand in use and 100 or another, the 5000 will get more calls


I understand the overall point you’re trying to make, but the bit quoted above is not correct.


----------



## arienskids

ive got 2 good one for you guys, one deluxe 28 sho brand new out of the crate, no drive no auger engagement, pulled it into my bay came from the factory with no drive pulley no auger pulley no pulley hardware and no belt guide. then we had another deluxe 28 sho that was sold last year that had thrown a rod through the top of the block after about 3hrs of run time, one of the conrod cap bolts backed out and the rod let loose. ariens made the guy pay 600 or so out of pocket for a new motor plus the labor to drop it on because the guy said he changed the oil after he bought it. also we see the ariens come in all the time for little things like adjustments and the newer ones like to toss drive belts every once in a while


----------



## Elfiero

Am I missing something? Why in all this conversation,isn't simplicity pro series mentioned once? It is a design that dates back more than 30 years, it's tougher than most every other brand. Yes, it is expensive, but it will be the only snowblower you ever buy. is it too much of a niche brand? Is it too expensive for Toro and Areins buyers? why doesn't anyone ever mention it?


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

I agree about the Simplicity being a stout machine and should get more attention. I think there are just so many more Honda, Toro and Ariens out there that Simplicity get's neglected. JMHO


.


----------



## bisonp

Elfiero said:


> Am I missing something? Why in all this conversation,isn't simplicity pro series mentioned once? It is a design that dates back more than 30 years, it's tougher than most every other brand. Yes, it is expensive, but it will be the only snowblower you ever buy. is it too much of a niche brand? Is it too expensive for Toro and Areins buyers? why doesn't anyone ever mention it?


They don't have much of a dealer network anymore, and the Select series doesn't really compete all that well in the $1000-1500 price range, which seems to be the range most people around here are looking at.

Personally, I'm not a fan of electric controls. Simplicity had quite a bit of trouble with the last generation switches. Not sure on the new ones. My dad had a Simplicity in the '80s and that is still the sturdiest blower I've ever used.


----------



## Darkwoods

So many variables and the subjectivity of a topic like this is very high. 

In my research, I have heard of far more reliability problems long term, with Cub Cadet as compared with Toro and Ariens. With that said, a question can be raised as to what Cub Cadet models see the most work because the HD models are said to be a lot more durable. 

I was picking up some skid shoes at the Ariens dealer, and he told me he sells at least 60 machines a year out of his dealership, but I rarely see them for sale on the used market here. The population of the area is quite low, but the population is also spread out over many communities. I've been to a small engine repair shop in town a couple times now, and most of the machines there that had fixed tags on were almost all the MTD-more basic residential models and there was one very old, single stage Honda that was waiting to be picked up. This doesn't mean Ariens snowblowers aren't breaking down out here, and most likely bring them back to the dealer opposed to local small engine repair shops.


----------

