# Snowblower not used since last oil change - Should I change oil now?



## Jack28 (Jan 3, 2017)

Hello. 

I have a Toro Power Clear 418 snowblower.

About a year ago, I tried to use the snowblower, but the snowblower wouldn't start.

I changed the engine oil, but the snowblower still did not start. I inserted a new sparkplug, but the snowblower still did not start.

I inserted some gasoline into the sparkplug hole, and the snowblower ran for a couple of seconds. So, the people on this forum came to the conclusion that the carb was the problem.

Over the summer of 2017, I removed the carb, cleaned the carb, and had a Home Depot employee clean the carb some more. I then reinserted the carb. However, I have not yet tested the snowblower to see whether the carb cleaning worked.

So, here is the bottom line: The engine oil that is currently in the snowblower, has been sitting there for about a year. I live in Chicago, and the oil has been sitting there since last winter. The snowblower has not been used since this current engine oil was inserted, except for the snowblower running for 2 seconds after the insertion of gasoline into the sparkplug hole.

If I'm planning to use the snowblower in the next few days (or weeks), should I change the engine oil first? Is there a chance that the current engine oil has been contaminated by condensation over the past year?

Thanks for any help.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Not all that much to worry about but you can always drain it and put in new oil. your not going to get that much condensation anyway so I would not waste it.

I would not hesitate to buy a new spark plug and a spare and gap it for the correct gap for your snow throwers engine. 

You could have a bad plug to begin with where it will start the engine up and get hot and then croak and when it cools it will start again as the spark plug cooled and contracted just like a bad old coil will do the same thing. 


I would buy premium fuel and seafoam to treat the fuel. I have used seafoam for years and it always helps all my small engines both 2 stroke and 4 stroke and my pickup as well.

Use the seafoam in the new gas and let it sit for a day as it should help a lot to break up any gum or varnish from the old fuel.

In my case I either shut the fuel tank off on the four stroke engines or drain the mixed gas out of my 2 cycle engines each time I am done with them but I leave the mixed gas in the snow throwers during the winter if I am using them every day.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

Get the thing running before you worry about the oil. If you change the oil again and still cant get it running, you've wasted two oil changes.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

66666666http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...g-trouble-removing-carburetor-snowblower.html


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

jtclays said:


> Jack, Seriously? 168 posts last year trying to get a jet cleaned and you never started it?
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ower-clear-418-snowblower-will-not-start.html
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...g-trouble-removing-carburetor-snowblower.html


Wow, that's serious research man. Yeah it's showtime or start a new thread on moving the PC 418 to the curb and getting a new blower.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

Use fresh gas. If you have gas in the tank from last year, drain it out before you try to start it again.


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## Jack28 (Jan 3, 2017)

deezlfan said:


> Get the thing running before you worry about the oil. If you change the oil again and still cant get it running, you've wasted two oil changes.


I was concerned that, if there was condensation and therefore water, then starting the blower could get the water into the engine and cause more problems.


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## Jack28 (Jan 3, 2017)

Tony P. said:


> Use fresh gas. If you have gas in the tank from last year, drain it out before you try to start it again.


The gas tank has been empty for a while. The gas will be fresh.


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## Jack28 (Jan 3, 2017)

jtclays said:


> Jack, Seriously? 168 posts last year trying to get a jet cleaned and you never started it?
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ower-clear-418-snowblower-will-not-start.html
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...g-trouble-removing-carburetor-snowblower.html



Last winter, except for that one time I tried to use the blower, we did not have any significant snow. I thought that this winter would give us more of the same.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Jack28 said:


> I was concerned that, if there was condensation and therefore water, then starting the blower could get the water into the engine and cause more problems.


I wouldn't worry about it. Get the engine running first. Then, if you really want to, change the oil. 

But at least check the oil level before starting it. Too low is bad, of course, but too high is also bad, especially if the oil smells like gas (due to fuel contaminating the oil).


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

This is my procedure to keep all of my OPE running in tip top condition.
Others will have their own practices, but if you take preventive measures, your equipment will work when you need it to.


I use Stabil-Marine 360 in my OPE gas. Always double dose it. 
I always store my equipment with a full tank, and leave the carburetor bowl full.
* I make a point to start each machine at least once a month.
When the gas is around six months old. I drain it and run it in my cars, and buy and treat new gas.*
Fill all the OPE tanks back up and start the engines so the fresh gas is in the carburetor.
I've never had a carb issue.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

That's a good plan for sure, I try to do the same thing with all my small engines (all 9 of them)!
The Stabil really seems to work and starting them 1x per month, keeps gas from evaporating in the carb bowl which leaves deposits that can clog the small jets in these carbs. 

For Jack, if you can't get it going with that carb, and want to keep the blower, I might just replace the carb and quit wasting time fiddling with it. When my Toro 3000 got to be about 15 years old, I started having a lot of running issues, and because it was the dead of winter and rebuilding a carb in my garage at 20*F is not my idea of fun, I just bought a new Mikuni for the Suzuki 2 stroke. It's been fine ever since and I rebuilt the old one over the summer and kept it as a spare. Yes it's a bit of money to spend but you have a working snowblower which is the whole point of all of this. Actually having a spare carb, is probably a good idea!


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## Jack28 (Jan 3, 2017)

Well, I tested the snowblower.

The good news is that the snowblower works. 

The bad news is that there seems to be a complication.


First, I checked the engine-oil level. There seemed to be an excessive amount of engine oil. So, just to be on the safe side, I poured out some of the oil.

Next, I pushed the ignition key in. Then I set the choke to "on".

Next, I primed the primer twice. After I did that, there was something dripping from the carburetor and from the primer. It was probably gasoline. 

I wiped off the gasoline as the gasoline was dripping, but the dripping did not stop.

I knew that this dripping was not supposed to be happening, and I wasn't sure what to do next. I decided to take a risk and to start the snowblower with the electric starter. And the snowblower worked.

I let the snowblower run for 10 minutes. While the snowblower was running, there was no dripping at all.

After I turned the snowblower off, there was still no dripping. 

However, when I moved the snowblower inside the garage, a *little* dripping occurred, and then the dripping stopped. I moved the snowblower a few more times, and each time, there was a little bit of dripping and then the dripping stopped.


So, does anyone know the cause of the dripping? 

When I took the carb apart, I noticed that the O-ring seal between the two halves of the carb was damaged. But the Home Depot guy who cleaned the carb for me, told me that a damaged O-ring seal was no big deal, as long as I sealed up the two halves of the carb tightly.


In any case, I would like to thank all of the people who gave me advice during the past year. It seems that, dripping aside, the snowblower works.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Uh-oh. As I touched on in my last post, carb problems can result in fuel leaking through the carb, into the cylinder, where it goes past the piston rings, and down into your oil. Making your "oil" level too-high, and making the oil smell like gas. 

The oil should be changed, if it smells like gas. Oil contaminated with gas does not lubricate as well as it should, and can cause engine damage. In addition, an oil level that's too high (even if it's just oil, no gas) can also cause lubrication problems. 

And it's a secondary clue to a fuel-overflow problem in the carb, which you may also seeing as dripping. Now, the dripping may just be because fuel is sloshing around in the carb bowl as you move the machine, and leaking past the damaged bowl o-ring (I'm assuming this is what you're referring to, with the 2 halves of the carb. The body being one half, and the bowl being the other), and dripping. 

I'm glad it starts, that's good news. But if your oil level was correct the last time you checked it, and too-high now, then gas is most likely getting down into the crankcase oil somehow. One cause for this can be a leaking carburetor bowl float, which can make the carb keep pulling in fuel even once the bowl is full. And/or a problem with the needle valve that should stop the flow into the bowl.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

deezlfan said:


> Get the thing running before you worry about the oil. If you change the oil again and still cant get it running, you've wasted two oil changes.


that is what i was thinking. if he put gas in the spark plug hole and it ran for a few seconds , then nothing , doesn't that point to a fuel delivery problem???

I think it would be fairly easy to determine cause. is the bowl filling with fuel? is the fuel line clogged? is the fuel filter plugged? is the float working or the seat plugged? 

i had the same problem with a HS50. it turned out to be the fuel line. disconnected the line , put fuel on and no fuel coming out. poked my carb cleaner straw up the line and sprayed a bunch and unclogged the line. easy 5 minute fix. lucky actually it was only that.

go with the easiest test first and go down the line.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> Uh-oh. As I touched on in my last post, carb problems can result in fuel leaking through the carb, into the cylinder, where it goes past the piston rings, and down into your oil. Making your "oil" level too-high, and making the oil smell like gas.
> 
> The oil should be changed, if it smells like gas. Oil contaminated with gas does not lubricate as well as it should, and can cause engine damage. In addition, an oil level that's too high (even if it's just oil, no gas) can also cause lubrication problems.
> 
> ...


exactly right. plus 10. this HAS to be addressed before even starting the blower again. sounds like a damaged needle valve and/or some dirt in the seat that is causing fuel overflow. i would NEVER run a small engine with too much oil/gas mixture in crankcase.

as for a HD guy telling you a damaged O-ring is NO BIG DEAL??? i don't know what to say about that.
doesn't sound right.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

As a temporary work-around, if the blower has a fuel-shutoff valve, you can use that to help stop the flow of gas when not running. That fuel flow when not running is what can cause gas contamination into the oil. 

If you have a fuel shutoff valve, close it. Change the oil, and get the oil level set correctly. Open the fuel shutoff, start the engine. Now, to shut the engine down (and you'd need to do this every time you finish using the engine), close the fuel shutoff valve, and wait for the engine to die. That means you've used up the fuel that was in the carburetor bowl. Thereby making sure there is no fuel available to leak through the carb, into the cylinder, and then down into your oil. 

This is a stop-gap solution, as you sort out the carb issues. But it could provide a way to run the engine, if needed, with minimal risk of gas contamination down into the oil while the engine is off. It won't help with carb dripping while running, however. It's only to try and prevent excess fuel from leaking into the engine while not running.

At some point, it may be worth considering simply replacing the carb, depending on how much troubleshooting you want to do. I don't have the details of your machine, but this carb might fit, $16 shipped on eBay: 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NICE-Carbu...182726116500?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10


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## Jack28 (Jan 3, 2017)

OK. Here's an update.

About 7 - 8 hours after I ran the snowblower, I went to the garage to check on the snowblower. The bad news is that all the gasoline had leaked out. The good news is that I checked the engine oil and the engine oil did NOT smell like gasoline.


To find out what's going on here, let's review all of the facts.

*Saturday, January 13*

I poured some Star Tron fuel stabilizer into a gas can. I poured some unleaded E10 gasoline into the gas can, and I mixed the fuel stabilizer and the gasoline. I poured the mixture into the snowblower's gas tank.

The mixture sat inside the snowblower for 24 hours, and there was no leakage of the mixture.


*Sunday, January 14*

I checked the engine-oil level. There seemed to be an excessive amount of engine oil. So, I poured out some of the oil.

Next, I pushed the ignition key in. Then I set the choke to "on".

Next, I primed the primer twice. That is when the leakage of the stabilizer-gasoline mixture began. First, there was leakage from the carb area. Then there was leakage from the primer itself.

The leakage stopped only when I started the snowblower with the electric starter. 

I ran the snowblower for 10 minutes. While the snowblower was running, there was NO leakage at all.

After I turned the snowblower off, there was still no leakage.

However, when I moved the snowblower inside the garage, a little dripping from the carb occurred, and then the dripping stopped. I moved the snowblower a few more times, and each time, there was a little bit of dripping from the carb, and then the dripping stopped.

7-8 hours later, I came back and saw that all of the stabilizer-gasoline mixture had leaked out. I also discovered that the engine oil did NOT smell like gasoline.



The leakage problem began when the primer was primed. So, perhaps I should skip the priming altogether. Perhaps I should set the choke to "on" and then go directly to starting the snowblower with the electric starter. Is that a good idea?


According to the following article, one possible cause of the leakage of the stabilizer-gasoline mixture is tiny holes at the bottom of the carb bowl:

Here's why your Snow Thrower may be leaking gas all over your garage. (Andrew's Blog 01/17/2011)

However, if my carb bowl had such holes, then the stabilizer-gasoline mixture would have probably started leaking on Saturday, January 13.


Here's a youtube video that states that, in Tecumseh snowblowers, it can be normal for the priming process to cause fuel leakage from the carb:






I'm not sure whether this video applies to my situation.


One solution to my problem is the following: I store a stabilizer-gasoline mixture inside a gas can. I pour the mixture into the snowblower's gas tank, only when I need to use the snowblower.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Jack28 said:


> OK. Here's an update.
> 
> About 7 - 8 hours after I ran the snowblower, I went to the garage to check on the snowblower. The bad news is that all the gasoline had leaked out. The good news is that I checked the engine oil and the engine oil did NOT smell like gasoline.


OK, so you have some sort of gas leak, which may not be leaking down into the oil. 


> To find out what's going on here, let's review all of the facts.
> 
> *Saturday, January 13*
> 
> ...


No leakage, that's good. 


> *Sunday, January 14*
> 
> I checked the engine-oil level. There seemed to be an excessive amount of engine oil. So, I poured out some of the oil.


This is troubling. If the oil level was OK on Saturday, and too-high on Sunday, then gas is leaking into your oil. That's a problem, and can cause engine damage. 



> Next, I pushed the ignition key in. Then I set the choke to "on".
> 
> Next, I primed the primer twice. That is when the leakage of the stabilizer-gasoline mixture began. First, there was leakage from the carb area. Then there was leakage from the primer itself.
> 
> ...


OK. 


> However, when I moved the snowblower inside the garage, a little dripping from the carb occurred, and then the dripping stopped. I moved the snowblower a few more times, and each time, there was a little bit of dripping from the carb, and then the dripping stopped.
> 
> 7-8 hours later, I came back and saw that all of the stabilizer-gasoline mixture had leaked out. I also discovered that the engine oil did NOT smell like gasoline.


The move-and-then-dripping sounds like it could be a problem with float, or perhaps more likely, the needle valve in the carb that stops the flow of gas into the carb bowl. 

How is the oil level? Is it higher than it was previously? 


> The leakage problem began when the primer was primed. So, perhaps I should skip the priming altogether. Perhaps I should set the choke to "on" and then go directly to starting the snowblower with the electric starter. Is that a good idea?


I'm not sure I'd read too much into the priming. I'm guessing that's not going to really cause the leak directly. 


> According to the following article, one possible cause of the leakage of the stabilizer-gasoline mixture is tiny holes at the bottom of the carb bowl:
> 
> Here's why your Snow Thrower may be leaking gas all over your garage. (Andrew's Blog 01/17/2011)
> 
> However, if my carb bowl had such holes, then the stabilizer-gasoline mixture would have probably started leaking on Saturday, January 13.


Agreed. Your leakage seems to be triggered at least in part by movement, etc, which wouldn't seem consistent (to me) with holes in the bottom of the carb bowl. 



> Here's a youtube video that states that, in Tecumseh snowblowers, it can be normal for the priming process to cause fuel leakage from the carb:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlFoUZt8nYc
> 
> ...


If the machine has a fuel-shutoff valve, or you can add one, that would be a much better band-aid solution, in my opinion, as compared to needing to run the tank empty each time, and leaving it empty. Close the fuel shutoff, run the engine until it dies, and put it away until the next use. 

You still have at least 1 carburetor issue, possibly more. You can remove the carburetor bowl, and look for pinholes in it. You could also look at the o-ring that you previously mentioned was damaged. As well as, getting a bit more involved, checking that the carb bowl float is intact, and doesn't have gas in it, as well as seeing if the needle valve needs to be cleaned. 

Or, post the exact details of your engine (model # and serial #, presumably), and people could help figure out a replacement carb part #. Depending on how much you feel like fiddling with this one, you can continue troubleshooting and diagnosing it, which is totally fine. I don't want to encourage just giving up. 

But if you can replace the carb for $20, that's worth considering, if it'll get you up and running again. A new carb bowl for yours, for instance, might cost $5-10. Heck, you could swap it, and then continue investigating the current one, to have it as a backup, if you wanted.


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## Jack28 (Jan 3, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> This is troubling. If the oil level was OK on Saturday, and too-high on Sunday, then gas is leaking into your oil. That's a problem, and can cause engine damage.


I did not check the oil on Saturday, January 13. I checked the oil on Sunday, January 14, 24 hours after putting in the fuel. 
Before Sunday, the last time I checked the oil was 1 year ago, when I did the oil change. 






> If the machine has a fuel-shutoff valve, or you can add one, that would be a much better band-aid solution, in my opinion, as compared to needing to run the tank empty each time, and leaving it empty. Close the fuel shutoff, run the engine until it dies, and put it away until the next use.


My machine does not have a fuel shutoff, and I don't know how to add one.


What about my idea to skip the priming? Should I try that? Would skipping the priming be harmful to the machine?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

OK, sorry, I wasn't following the timeline properly. 

Your oil level became too-high somehow. If it was filled to the proper level a year ago, and is now too high, then something caused that (the most likely explanation being fuel leaking into the oil), and I would change the oil, if it were me. 

You can try not priming it. I wouldn't expect that to hurt anything. It might take a little bit longer to start. Follow the manual's instructions, if they say don't crank the electric starter for longer than 10 seconds at a time, or whatever, then follow that. You don't want to just keep cranking the electric starter for a minute straight, as an example, or you'll overheat the starter motor and damage it. 

I don't think you'll see the fuel dripping problem go away entirely as a result of not priming it, but you can certainly give it a shot.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Often people just prime it too much and naturally gas will drip out. Mine starts fine just being primed 1x on full choke.


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