# Ariens EFI... shortage?



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

I recently heard that the reason Ariens doesn't currently offer a rapidtrak machine with EFI in the U.S. (they will next season) is because the demand for the EFI engines are so high over in Europe, Ariens hasn't been able to keep up. Has anyone else heard the same? Are emissions currently stricter across the pond? Just curious.


----------



## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

Can't blame Ariens for following the money. We Americans are still skeptical of EFI on small engines. When its good enough for Europe, it will be good enough here.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Currently they are still trying to 'Work Out' a lot of the 'Bugs' in the 'EFI' systems they are experiencing at this time. 
It is still pretty much a 'New' system that has not been 'Perfected' yet, and also for the cost of it while it is still in the 'Experimental' stage.
As previously mentioned, we Americans are still very 'Skeptical' of the system. We want something that has to be 110% or better before we want to spend the money on it, and the repair costs don't help with it at this time.


----------



## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

In general, I think the smart money usually waits a bit on new technology to make sure the bugs are out before they jump in.


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i personally wouldn't touch the new "EFI" engines unless i am getting them free. realistically it is just a computerized carb since it does not have a O2 sensor to make the engine run efficiently. i get why some people want them but realistically they are no better than a carb at this point. maybe they will get better eventually but then again battery technology may also get better by the time they get the EFI working properly and electric snowblowers may be more popular by then.


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Wow . . .if only I had the time to document all the errors in that statement . . . .


----------



## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

To my understanding, the small engine EFI systems are similar to throttle body injection on large engines. When the small engines get to port injection, then we got something going.

IMO - The biggest disadvantage with EFI now is the service industry seems to be in catch-up mode.


----------



## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

Why would anyone want EFI over bigger CC? EFI will only give you more problems and harder to fix.
Maintenance cars and fixing machines is already enough for me. I don't want to have more problems in hand (more things to fix).

Now you might argue that EFI will help avoid clogged carburetor problem, easier to start up and etc. It is the future. All truth, but still, it is not enough for me. At least when it is still new on snow blower.


----------



## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

Fuel injection on cars required sensors, computer mapping (tuning), ...
Fuel injection on snowblowers is much simpler. It will not spray the right amount of fuel every time. When the fuel injector clogged/leak, the fuel pump is broken, ..., then great. Good luck fixing it.


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

The fueling maps do exactly that, and fixing it is bonehead simple . . . so much less to go wrong. 

Oh, and early auto EFI didn't have much in the way of sensors either. The Ariens senses air temp, air pressure, fuel pressure and RPM, so it can be quite good at getting the correct mix. The O2 sensor is more EPA crap than anything else, and good maps do pretty much the same thing (that, and the fact that a blower engine is a constant speed device also makes the maps far simpler that a cat with constant power/throttle changes.)

The auto industry/outhoard motor/etc. industry has had this tech for quite some time - saying it is new and unproven simply because it is on a snowblower is a work of fiction as I see it.

I still regret buying my last blower with a carb, but there was no EFI in stock when I needed it, and the time to order was more than I had. Still looking for a way to swap without taking too much of a beating . . .


----------



## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

The main problem with carburetor is really just clogged/bad fuel. It is much easier for an average person to diagnose the problem and replace it for cheap. I don't think you can say that about EFI. You need to have a fuel pressure gauge at least to diagnose an EFI system. Replacement parts for it are going to be expensive (at your expense).

The cost and benefit of it is going to be different for each person. For most people, I think they prefer carburetor. It is the reason why carburetors are still around. That might change in the future when they have strict emission rules.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

We've been seeing a lot of the 'Mapping' programs go 'Hay-Wire' on the EFI systems, among all of the other components like injectors and fuel pumps, just like they do go bad on automobiles, then after a lot of diagnostics of what the problem is, then the costs of the replacement modules, other parts, and troubleshooting labor, you are looking at the price of another snowblower that you had to use while yours was in the shop for an extended period of time being diagnosed by the 'Experts' who still had a hard time figuring out what the problem was.
And the 'Mapping' problems are extremely common in a lot of the cases with faulty 'Maps' built into them.
Your standard labor rates are a lot higher when it comes to EFI because of all the special tools and computers involved with the work with them, that extra cost has to get passed on to the customer.
Then you have the waiting time for the parts needed for the repair because they are not stocked like they are for carburetor repairs due to the increased costs of them.
We have seen a fair amount of problems on the LCT engines with the EFI systems. We have dealt with a few Kawasaki EFI failures and they were not a cheap repair job either, then you look at all of the constant 'Updates' the systems require, and if you don't 'Update' them, you are looking for a problem in the near future. Add Briggs and Kohler to that list.
When you start replacing the ECM's and other parts because of an ECM failure, you are looking at a rather expensive repair bill compared to a carburetor. Sad thing is, we saw more EFI system problems than we did carburetor problems this season. The carburetor problems were a quick inexpensive repair, unlike the EFI failures.
If the EFI systems would cost half the price of a carbureted system, parts, labor, troubleshooting, then they might be something to consider on a small engine, but at this time there is no advantage to them. You don't get any better reliability, cold starting and warming up, very little fuel savings for the cost spent on them, very little emmission savings, they don't make enough of a difference on exhaust gas emmissions to justify the cost.
They might be o.k. for a lazy person, someone with no common sense to start an engine or someone who is trying to 'Show Off' with their new machine that has EFI, until it is back in the shop for repairs again due to another failure which we see on a daily occasion. A lot of our 'Commercial' users are getting tired of the breakdowns with them all the time and are working on going back to carburetors because they have had very little problems with them compared to their new EFI powered units.
A hard thing is, once the manufacturer gets a system to work well, the regulations change again, fuel changes again and the manufacturers can't keep up with it. They constantly have to keep making changes to compensate for them. Fortunately the carburetors are much easier and cheaper to adjust to accommodate for the changes. The EFI systems will have to have another 20 years or more until they can try to 'Perfect' them, and for that added cost, it won't be worth it in the long run.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

tpenfield said:


> To my understanding, the small engine EFI systems are similar to throttle body injection on large engines. When the small engines get to port injection, then we got something going.
> 
> IMO - The biggest disadvantage with EFI now is the service industry seems to be in catch-up mode.


Many of your newer EFI systems are 'Port Injected' now. Almost all of the larger multi cylinder engines are 'Port Injected'.
Unfortunately they have just as much problems as the older style 'TBI' systems had, if not more because of more parts involved with them.
A lot of the common problems are with the 'Electronics' of them and 'Mapping' systems besides component failures.


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

As much as I do enjoy the EFI debate, that really wasn't the question I was curious about.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

People aren't trying to 'Steer' you away from 'EFI', they are just explaining that you shouldn't feel bad if you can't get one at the moment.
Ariens noticed some of the problems they were having with them and didn't want to release a lot of them to the 'US' market yet until they can get the problems worked out of them.
The European market is much smaller for them than the USA market is, so they can use them as 'Ginny Pigs' to see if they will perform satisfactory.
They only want to use the EFI system on their top of the line models at this time due to the costs and extra maintenance with them.
The only thing you would be missing out on with the EFI system is the extra costs of owning one compared to a carbureted version, there is no real difference on how they run and the power is the same, they have no more power than a standard version. The throttle speed might not change as much with the electronically controlled governor when under a load, that's about the only difference you would notice with them at an added cost and extra things to break on them that must be taken back to the dealership for service and repair work.


----------

