# Power operated chute and deflector, is battery needed?



## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

I have 2 1990's Yamaha YS240 "Rickys" (with on board 12 V battery key on electric start) that have power chute rotation which I really like  . Howerver, last year the battery let go on one of them, and with the engine running the chute will not operate. I replaced the battery and everything was back to normal. This led me to believe that in order to operate a "window motor" that is used on the Rickys set up you need to have an on board battery in good condition (that the charge coil could not produce enough energy to operate the motor while the battery can store the energy and have enough stored in it when it was demanded by the motor - I could be wrong of course :facepalm_zpsdj194qh ).

I think Canadian Honda and Yamaha blowers that have powerized chute (window motor type I believe) and deflectors also have 12V key on starting, therefore they have a 12V battery.

Are there blowes with power chute rotation without an on board battery, or has anyone built a set up without an on board battery?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I believe some of John Deere / Simplicity machines made by Briggs over the last few years had headlights and electric chutes with no battery. I seem to remember a complaint that using the chute makes the headlight go really dim.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Thanks _*Shryp*_, interesting.
I think some MTD have power chute rotation and I wonder if they have an on board battery or not?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Very few machines come with 12v batteries. I think the batteries are more common in other countries.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Thanks _*Shryp*_.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Having a battery is good because you will always have a constant source of power there if you overload the amperage being put out by your stator. I think that will in theory protect you from burning it out as well as allow you to have higher amperage temporary use items. Not 100% sure though as I am not good with electrical.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

Electric motors require a peak amperage in to start. And then a lot less amperage to keep running. I am learning through experience with electrical motors that the thing that fails in an electric motor is the capacitor. Follow this along:

I replaced a $10 start capacitor in a well pump. A start capacitor provides the extra oompf to start the electric motor spinning and spinning in the right direction. 

I replaced a $0.35 start capacitor in a beautiful Hunter ceiling fan left by the former owner in the gutted fixer upper my wife and I bought a year ago ("View from the cab inspired by Saskatchewan"). 

I replaced a $21.95 dual start/run capacitor (about the size of a beer can) in my 5 year old Trane air conditioner condensor. A start/run capacitor not only starts the electric motor running and in the right direction but keeps the motor running by supplying extra amperage when and if necessary.

Each of these electric motors now work flawlessly and at a cost which was far less than a new motor.

Another name for a capacitor is a "battery."

So when I am running the garden tractor with the electric hitch sleeve it really needs that battery to start the linear actuator to start picking up the furrow plow. Could the amperage supplied by the stator in the 20HP Twin Kohler do it? I think it puts out 5 amps according to the Craftsman amp dial gauge. The toggle switch is rated to 8 amps. So my guess is that the hitch sleeve needs an amp surge of at least 8 amps to get the actuator moving. So a battery (i.e., capacitor) is needed to provide the initial oompf.

So what is the minimum capacitor size you could get away with on your Ricky to start that chute turning? Probably alot less than the amp output capacity of that lead acid battery. [Hopefully you guys can get some electrical engineers ("Double E's") to join this forum...]

But this is what it says in chapter 2 of the The Procedure Handbook On Arc Welding I am reading as I write this:

_"If a satisfactory starting point cannot be found, design for an assumed load and adjust from experience and tests; at least the design will be well proportioned."_ 

Although the James F. Lincoln Arc Welding Foundation book I am reading is directed towards metal design, that statement would seem be a universal shade tree design principle.

It would be fun, how about instead of buying another battery, do some internet reading about capacitors, buy one to stick in place of the battery and experiment. 
Or for fun, stick one of your 12v or 18v cordless batteries in place of your battery.
But over charging could be an issue. So shield it.

Edit: Oops. Since volts are what "pushes" a charge into a capacitor/battery (i.e., at least 14.4 volts from a generator is required to push a recharge into a 12v battery) the stator from a small engine may not put out enough volts (regardless of the amps it is generating) to push a recharge into an 18v cordless battery. So put a H.F. el cheapo multimeter in line from your stator to your battery to see what volts the stator puts out at the engine operating rpm. You may find that you are stuck with using a 12v cordless tool battery, which is entirely fine.

 And the real question I guess is, how much do you value the electric start? Because no doubt that motor draws way more amps than your chute motor does...


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Capacitor is a good idea. I believe those will survivor not being charged for long periods of times unlike batteries so that will help out with summer maintenance.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

_*E350*_,
I vave not checked the voltage output of the stator on my Ricky but considering that it is factory fitted with a 12 volt on-board battery it should be about 14-14.5 volts.
If I have electric start I want to be able to use it, and the battery (good quality) was about $48 with shipping (there are cheaper options), so it was not too bad.
If the blower was not fitted with an on board battery and 12 volt electric starter then I would definitely consider the capacitor wich is an excellent idea. 

On the other hand I am reading the Service Manual for my Yamahas YS624 and YS828 and it states that the voltage at 3600rpm should de 17-19volts with no load, so perhaps you need some type of voltage regulator if a 12volt battery is fitted to a charging system like this.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

HS, in my experience, lead acid batteries are pretty tolerant to input voltage. For instance the 12v 250AHr house battery in my van can take 19v from the solar no problem. The MPPT type controllers will lower input the voltage to 14.4v and correspondingly increase the amperage input to the battery because anything over 14.4v is just wasted while the most amperage input (assuming at least 14.4 volts) is the best to recharge a 12v battery. I am looking forward to more photos of the chute mechanisms (if possible). I think you are right that lithium batteries like those in cordless tools are less tolerant of overcharging. My 6x6 Polaris Ranger has a regular lead acid starting battery, so I am interested maybe putting an electric start on the Honda 13HP engine on the Kimpex ATV blower and an electric chute controller on it with a winch disconnect plug to the Ranger 6x6 battery(ies). I don't want to divert your thread and I will start a thread on my build after I friggin' get the repositioning of the A-frame done on my utility trailer. But I read all the stuff you guys post on snowblower design with great interest.


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