# What does ethanol fuel do to a carb when you don't use stabilizer?



## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Latest Donyboy 73 video shows the damage untreated ethanol fuel can do to a carb.


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## Mr. JT Monk (Oct 27, 2020)

Yuck . . awful mess.
Why I have been using only Premium NO Ethanol gasoline for all my small engine equipment for+20 years now.
Besides the gel he shows on the 4 cycle engine carb. . . ethanol in 2 cycle equipment like chain saws, leaf blowers, weed eaters, etc. . . . just will destroy a 2 cycle carb and the thin membranes in them IMHO and from my experience.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Been using STABIL-360 which treats the ethanol and everything runs well in the various applicaitons. Poured some gas into a snowblower the other day that I treated with 360 2 years ago when I filled that jug up with 85 octane Phillips 66 gas, and the machine ran well. Not perfect, but well. Used up all of that stuff, looked at the bottom of the gas can, no yucky stuff.. filled it up with fresh gas and treated it with 360 again. Many areas don't have ethanol free available.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yeah, all my 5 gallon cans get Stabil and also 1/3 to 1/2 the rate of SeaFoam immediatly when I fill them. This way, every single unit, new, old, summer, winter, 2 stroke .... it is all just fine now for well over 30 years, and I do run my equipment periodically throughout the year, even in off season..... never empty any tank or run any unit out of full ... if I have something I have not used in say close to 2 years, I will suck out and put that in a running unit, and re-fill with fresh.

Never , ever have I had an issue with gas or carburetor on any machine.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

my old neighbor who lived accross the street gave me a lawn mower about 5 or so years ago that had that happen. it took me 5 minutes to fix and my sister still has the lawn mower since. it still runs good but my sister knows to buy 91 octane ethanol free if i don't go over and buy the fuel for her. also i still think i like project farms video about fuel is a bit better. 

according to what i found on google.
*Ethanol has an electric charge that attracts other polar molecules. Water sucks right into the fuel. Because water is heavier than gasoline, it collects at the bottom of the tank and turns into a gel. At about 0.5 percent water, this is called phase separation, and then that phase coagulates in cold weather. *


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## mobiledynamics (Nov 21, 2014)

I did not watch the vid but I would say would that not be based on the fuel sitting in the bowl for more than one season .......

I don't run my carbs dry. I just make sure that when I'm getting the lawn mower ready, the snow equipements gets presure washed, fluid filmed, tanks are drained and carbs are fully drained out. On a recent SBF thread there was a blurb about Startron. I have it. I've stopped adding anything to my fuel. Just make sure it's just not sitting there for a extended period of time


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

this is what i've used for a long time in all the ope motors 
anything is better than nothing even in ethanol free gas cheap insurance


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

mobiledynamics said:


> I did not watch the vid but I would say would that not be based on the fuel sitting in the bowl for more than one season .......


it can happen over just 1 winter or at least that is how it was with the lawnmower i got from the neighbor. if you start having the jell sit longer than 1 year it starts drying up and going real bad.


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

RE: "What does ethanol fuel do to a carb when you don't use stabilizer?"
Answer - BAD THINGS*. *I don't use or trust Google, but in this case, Crazzywolfie's quote is correct. A lot of treatments claim to address phase separation, but there are also a lot of tests out there that show marginal results at best. IMHO, the most effective things one can do are:
1. Not letting the fuel sit for extended periods of time and treat as best you can per above comments.
2. Run equipment periodically.
3. Use E0 (non ethanol) fuel whenever possible.

Attached are images of a Briggs INTEK carburetor that had been sitting for well over 10 years. The ferrous plugs are rusted because of the water and even if I had cleaned everything up, particles from them had probably fouled the passages. The only thing to do was invest in a new carburetor and make sure this doesn't happen again. BTW, the rest of the engine was pristine.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Taryl has been doing a fuel experiment. Seems these additives don't do much.
To me shutting off the fuel and running it dry is better, for short term. Longer than 3 months drain the tank. Forget the additives.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

another tip i saw from Steve's Small Engine Saloon on youtube that makes sense to try and prevent stuff like that. at the end of the lawn mowing season dump the rest of your gas into your car and then go to the gas station and get fresh gas and then top up your machine with the fresh gas and run it so that the last gas in the system is about as fresh as it could be. the same tip could also be applied to snowblowers. at the end of the season dump any un used gas in your car and go get fresh stuff to run through your snowblower before you put it away.


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## Pauleastend63 (Nov 23, 2020)

Until about 10 years ago I was a very regular customer at my local small engine shop....I would walk in with carb in hand, and go back to pick it up a few days later. I guess the guy started to feel sorry for me, he let me in on the "not so secret" secret about the use of fuel stabilizer and premium ethanol free gas. He also told me NOT to worry about draining the carb bowl out during the off-season....he did tell me to pull the snow blower or lawnmower out a few times during their off-season's and start them up.....been doing exactly that for 10 years now and have not had 1 single issue with carbs since. Now I know that there will be some hard-cores here in the forum that say I should drain the bowl....some even drain the bowl between uses....bottom line, do whatever works for you.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

I worked on my Toro Powerlite carb this weekend. Saw the same gel stuff in the carb. Cleaned it out and put it back together. Runs great. I think I will be running the engine until it quits and leaving the carb bowl dry from now on. The nearest ethanol free gas station is 50 minutes away. I'm not fond of adding stabilizer on top of 2 stroke oil. Plus it's cheaper.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Your Ethanol acts as a solvent, the same as solvents in fuel treatments and carburetor cleaners.
Your "Sea-Foam" is loaded with alcohol solvents.
The problem with any alcohols is they absorb water out of the surrounding atmosphere or air around them.
When enough water is absorbed and they can't absorb anymore, it begins to separate. The water causes a lot of corrosion on metal surfaces.
The alcohol actually helps to dissolve a lot of the varnish and sludge's from old gasoline, but it can only do so much until it becomes diluted or rendered inoperative by saturation.
The alcohol helps to "Oxygenate" fuel by adding extra oxygen to the fuel mixture to help it burn more complete and cleaner when it goes out the exhaust pipe so it pollutes less.
But the problem with alcohol is it only has about 60-70% the BTU efficiency of gasoline, thereby producing less power and performance for a given amount of fuel by volume.
Ethanol laced gasoline produces lower miles per gallon in fuel mileage in automobiles so it is a less efficient type fuel as pure gasoline.
A lot of the pictures you see of carburetor damage are not all caused by Ethanol laced fuel, they are caused by old gasoline being left in the carburetor and breaking down from not being stabilized.
You will get the same amount of damage whether it be pure gas or Ethanol laced gasoline. Sometimes you will actually get less sludge/gum/varnish build-up with Ethanol because it acts as a solvent to help dissolve it. And you can actually get more varnish/sludge build-up from non Ethanol gasoline, believe it or not, I know from 45 plus years experience.
And NO, I am not a fan of Ethanol laced fuel either, I just have to prepare for using it with the extra precautions of draining it from the carburetors when not in use.
The Ethanol helps to reduce Hydrocarbon Emissions/un-burned fuel and Carbon Monoxide emissions, but it does help increase more Carbon Dioxide/"Greenhouse" gas emissions.
Fuel octane rating has no effect on how long gasoline stays fresh, it does not act as a stabilizer, if anything it can form more deposits when it breaks down because of the extra additives in it that separate when fuel degrades.
Of the carburetors we repaired over the years, the ones that had bad/stale high octane gasoline in them were in worse shape/more gunk and deposits that the ones that only used the low or regular octane gasoline.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

captchas said:


> this is what i've used for a long time in all the ope motors
> anything is better than nothing even in ethanol free gas cheap insurance


The corrosion inhibitors is what you want to look for in a good stabilizer. That is what helps to protect the metals from oxidation/corrosion.


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## kd8tzc (Dec 6, 2020)

Wow.... reminds me of those old ads about drug use... a good PSA for no ethanol fuel would be "This is your carburetor, and this is your carburetor on Ethanol. Friends don't let friends use fuel with ethanol".


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## Mr. JT Monk (Oct 27, 2020)

Even though I always use non ethanol gasoline in all our small engine powered equipment, I always add a stabilizer. Summer or winter.
I never drain carb bowls anymore. When I used to drain gas tanks, run the engines till they stop and even draining the carb bowls, I still had times when the then dry carb and it's bowl had engine starting issues and had to take a carb apart and manually clean places where dried fuel gummed things up.

My son in law bought a new roto tiller about 8 years ago.. Per the owners manual directions, he drained the gas tank, ran engine till it stopped after using it for the year. He ended up having to take the carb apart the first 3 years of owning it every year because the carb jet, or float or passages were gummed up and had to be cleaned with sprays of carb cleaner. I advised him to try using gas with added stabilizer and leave the tank 1/4 to 1/2 full. Then just add fresh fuel before starting the next year. He has had no problems since doing that. I also advised him to start the tiller engine every month or two and let it run for a few minutes.

In my experience, we have gasoline stored at a seasonal cabin which is used for lawn mowers, a generator, a log splitter and whatever else. That gas has added stabilizer. We never drain the bowls, and the gas can be a year or even 2 years old. I don't advise that. It's just the nature of having power equipment up in a little populated area 350 miles away.

I just make sure to add some fresh fuel and stabilizer to the 4 gallon gas can every year.
But I've never had any issues with fouling a carb either at the cabin or here at home using 100% gasoline with stabilizer. I usually use one of the Stabil products. I've also used Star Tron or Star Brite Gasoline additive. Good stuff, but difficult to find around here.
Before. . even when using E87 along with stabilizer. . . . I still had occasion where I had to use carb cleaner and/or remove the bowl to get inside and clean deposits out.


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## Pete826 (Dec 1, 2020)

Any truth to the rumor that the Honda’s and Chondas don’t like the high octane fuel”91 and above. Some saying causing to not run smooth.....


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## Mr. JT Monk (Oct 27, 2020)

I have two generators with China clone honda engines on them and they run fine on 91 octane non ethanol gasoline. That's all I use in all the small engines we have. Even the Craftsman/MTD snow blower.


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## 3vanman (Nov 21, 2017)

crazzywolfie said:


> another tip i saw from Steve's Small Engine Saloon on youtube that makes sense to try and prevent stuff like that. at the end of the lawn mowing season dump the rest of your gas into your car and then go to the gas station and get fresh gas and then top up your machine with the fresh gas and run it so that the last gas in the system is about as fresh as it could be. the same tip could also be applied to snowblowers. at the end of the season dump any un used gas in your car and go get fresh stuff to run through your snowblower before you put it away.


Until six weeks ago, I was purchasing a marked premium ethanol free gas from a local small independent.
Business just sold, reno's including new pumps, and still waiting to see if that product continues to be available.
I encourage everyone I talk to to use any fuel in their gas can (and not buy marked regular as most of it contains ethanol) within 2 weeks, and pour the rest in their car.
If they choose to use "regular fuel", all of which contains a "minimum 10% ethanol", follow this routine, and at the end of the season run at least two tank fulls of premium ethanol free treated with seafoam and also a quality fuel stabilizer.
At $75 to $100 a pop for carb cleaning (labour, parts and fuel), only 25% seem to come back more than once. he others, they say they like supporting my small home business.
I also regularly use an alcohol tester on the premium fuel available in my market, buying a "gallon" or so at a time. Ethanol free fuel, I use in my and customer's machines, that with ethanol goes into my tracker..

If you don't own one, could be one of the best investments you make. Briggs & Stratton 795161 Gasohol Tester Replacement 100023/795161: Amazon.ca: Patio, Lawn & Garden


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## 3vanman (Nov 21, 2017)

Pete826 said:


> Any truth to the rumor that the Honda’s and Chondas don’t like the high octane fuel”91 and above. Some saying causing to not run smooth.....


I have been repairing all forms of small gasoline power equipment for 3 years, and I only use ethanol free gas. Most if not all of that fuel is the highest grade pump gas you can use.
My neighbour even told me his lawn tractor and chainsaw wouldn't run on premium, regular pump gas was better. I got him to try some premium from a station I knew was ethanol free. Now, after a summer of using ethanol free fuel, he is out telling everyone how good an idea to use it it is. 
Many markets are now selling a minimum 15% ethanol fuel, some municipal and state governments mandate overal gas sales must contain a minimum 15% ethanol, BUT if you look at the machines currently sold, new replacement carbs and carb kits, they all state "not recommended for fuel containing more than 10% ethanol."


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

so does anyone have results of a true scientific study that demonstrates the effectiveness of these additives? I know there is alot of experienced users of them here, but any real studies? besides the Taryl videos.

tx


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Pete826 said:


> Any truth to the rumor that the Honda’s and Chondas don’t like the high octane fuel”91 and above. Some saying causing to not run smooth.....


I've found high octane to be an issue where I live. Here in most of Colorado, we are above 4000ft which means gasoline burns differently the higher up you go. When running 91 (which is equivalent to 93 down at sea level) I had a very difficult time dialing in the adjustable carbs on the Tecumsehs for smooth running/idling. But in using 85 Octane (87 down at sea level) or 87 Octane (89 down at sea level) they are not as fussy. Even in the Ariens owner's manual it does say it is ok to use a lower octane for those who are at a higher altitude. 

Weird thing though-- TruFuel which is like 93 or 95 octane? runs very smooth in the machines here. Maybe because it is lacking other things in the gasoline that causes issues.


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## Pauleastend63 (Nov 23, 2020)

ST1100A said:


> Your Ethanol acts as a solvent, the same as solvents in fuel treatments and carburetor cleaners.
> Your "Sea-Foam" is loaded with alcohol solvents.
> The problem with any alcohols is they absorb water out of the surrounding atmosphere or air around them.
> When enough water is absorbed and they can't absorb anymore, it begins to separate. The water causes a lot of corrosion on metal surfaces.
> ...


Excellent ST1100A......I had to save this post from you for future reference. Merry Christmas and happy new years.


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## Frostikins (Dec 17, 2020)

Stabilizers don't seem to do much to counteract damage from water attracted by ethanol in gas. About the best thing I've found is to buy aviation gas from a small airport. It's $5 and change per gallon but that's a lot better than $25 per gallon for the manufactured fuel, like tru fuel. It has no alcohol but it is low lead so it cannot be used in your car or anything with a catalytic converter. I keep it in my generator for long term infrequent use and I run it through the mower and snow blower before seasonal storage.


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

Frostikins said:


> Stabilizers don't seem to do much to counteract damage from water attracted by ethanol in gas. About the best thing I've found is to buy aviation gas from a small airport. It's $5 and change per gallon but that's a lot better than $25 per gallon for the manufactured fuel, like tru fuel. It has no alcohol but it is low lead so it cannot be used in your car or anything with a catalytic converter. I keep it in my generator for long term infrequent use and I run it through the mower and snow blower before seasonal storage.


check out the list of 50 stations in NH many sell 91 efree the rest are selling race gas showing 94 and up Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada


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## Pauleastend63 (Nov 23, 2020)

Frostikins said:


> Stabilizers don't seem to do much to counteract damage from water attracted by ethanol in gas. About the best thing I've found is to buy aviation gas from a small airport. It's $5 and change per gallon but that's a lot better than $25 per gallon for the manufactured fuel, like tru fuel. It has no alcohol but it is low lead so it cannot be used in your car or anything with a catalytic converter. I keep it in my generator for long term infrequent use and I run it through the mower and snow blower before seasonal storage.


I remember going to snowmobile races as a kid and you could really smell the AV fuel.....is it noticeable when running it in blowers and lawnmowers?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Pauleastend63 said:


> I remember going to snowmobile races as a kid and you could really smell the AV fuel.....is it noticeable when running it in blowers and lawnmowers?


Yes it is, it has that special smell, the sweet smell of good gasoline.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Frostikins said:


> Stabilizers don't seem to do much to counteract damage from water attracted by ethanol in gas. About the best thing I've found is to buy aviation gas from a small airport. It's $5 and change per gallon but that's a lot better than $25 per gallon for the manufactured fuel, like tru fuel. It has no alcohol but it is low lead so it cannot be used in your car or anything with a catalytic converter. I keep it in my generator for long term infrequent use and I run it through the mower and snow blower before seasonal storage.


Briggs&Stratton has a stabilizer, along with some other companies that have special corrosion inhibitors in them to help prevent corrosion/oxidation of different metals in the fuel system like the fuel tank and carburetors. @captchas listed one of them in a previous post that has the metal ionizers/anti corrosion additives in it.


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

Pauleastend63 said:


> I remember going to snowmobile races as a kid and you could really smell the AV fuel.....is it noticeable when running it in blowers and lawnmowers?


it's also possible they were burning cam2 race gas as man dose that one linger around in the air more so longer than VP or SUNOCO race fuels ,


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

just pulled this link out of a old thread in here crazywolfie stated in nov 2019 damage caused by ethanol
it's pretty interesting https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2019/10/23/729704-testing-anti-ethanol-tests.html
and a test on ope engines


https://www.theautochannel.com/news/2015/09/01/140446-why-do-small-engines-suffer-from-ethanol-problems-video.html


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