# Strange Starting problem with Honda Carburetor



## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

have a starting issue with honda carb off of a 724.

drained gas and replace with good gas and stabilizer and seafoam. gas tank clean

cleaned the carb( no dirt in bowl ) and it started right up. ran about 20 minutes. tried restarting it about 10 times and started right away , one pull. let it sit for about 15 minutes and it started right up , no problem.

let it sit for a month. won't start. cleaned out again. this time put brand new pilot jet and float. it started right up on choke. let it warm up. ran it about 20 minutes. tried starting about 10 - 12 times.

started right up. let it sit for awhile and then tried again. started right up. runs great.

let it sit 3 days and now won't start.

so , what did I maybe miss?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

am thinking on getting a OEM carb and sticking it on rather than taking this one off and rebuilding/cleaning.

what would you all do?


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Did you ever download the _*Honda Carburetor Check Sheet*_ for GX engines? I posted it a while ago. It has worked for me twice now after my "regular" way of cleaning a GX carb didn't. You never know, it may just work:

https://tinyurl.com/y8kccldh

http://www.honda-engines-eu.com/documents/10912/31055/1483/e9844030-8016-4d4a-8d30-d1e8cd215253


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Is fuel screen plugged I wonder? 

The only other thing that slaps me across the puss as to what you are describing that happens to the Old Briggs I/C engines as the coil windings eventually get hot and the engine dies due to the bakelite and windings failing from heat over the years.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

leonz said:


> Is fuel screen plugged I wonder?
> 
> The only other thing that slaps me across the puss as to what you are describing that happens to the Old Briggs I/C engines as the coil windings eventually get hot and the engine dies due to the bakelite and windings failing from heat over the years.


there is fuel in the bowl and when i had the bowl off the gas flowed freely. do you mean maybe the fuel filter may be letting small particles thru?

i replaced the pilot jet and float and needle valve.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

jrom said:


> Did you ever download the _*Honda Carburetor Check Sheet*_ for GX engines? I posted it a while ago. It has worked for me twice now after my "regular" way of cleaning a GX carb didn't. You never know, it may just work:
> 
> https://tinyurl.com/y8kccldh
> 
> http://www.honda-engines-eu.com/documents/10912/31055/1483/e9844030-8016-4d4a-8d30-d1e8cd215253


thanks. i'll take the carb and try this chart. excellence reference.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello Orangeputeh,

I was thinking that something was floating around in the tank in addition to the possibility of smaller particles being pulled in to the jets.


So you do not think you have a coil at the door of the happy hunting ground????


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

leonz said:


> ...I was thinking that something was floating around in the tank in addition to the possibility of smaller particles be pulled in to the jets.


That has definitely happened to me. Cleaned the tank out, cleaned the carb (using torch tip cleaning tool reamers), worked perfect.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

could it flood in the choked position even on a very cold day? the reason I ask is because after it would not start I turned off key and pulled cord about 8-10 times and tried again on the throttle position between low and fast and it just about started 1st try and then started ( very weakly ) on 2nd pull.

after warmed it, it started 10 times in a row and runs great at low, medium, and fast positions. I checked choke operation and it is fine. 

so was wondering if for whatever reason it could pull TOO much gas on choke when cold and flood motor?


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

I wonder if you had a sticky choke and the gum/varnish broke loose and is in the bottom of the bowl?

I forgot how well torch tip cleaners work on carburetors


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## THE Wolfman (Feb 15, 2017)

Sounds like the float valve is not allowing for a proper seal due to dirt or wear, and after sitting for a while any excess fuel that hasn't leaked out and evaporated, gets pulled into the engine on the first pull. If dirty, carefully clean the valve needle, channel, and seat. If the float valve needle is worn/damaged, replace the valve needle. If the valve seat is worn/damaged, it will be most cost effective to replace the carb.

With the snow ready to fly (it's snowing lightly here right now), I would consider grabbing an OEM carb and replacement fuel filter to keep unwanted materials out of it.


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 7, 2016)

jrom said:


> Did you ever download the _*Honda Carburetor Check Sheet*_ for GX engines? I posted it a while ago. It has worked for me twice now after my "regular" way of cleaning a GX carb didn't. You never know, it may just work:
> 
> https://tinyurl.com/y8kccldh
> 
> http://www.honda-engines-eu.com/documents/10912/31055/1483/e9844030-8016-4d4a-8d30-d1e8cd215253


Great suggestion. I laminated this and have it on my shop wall. More than once it has solved my problems.

BTW - a few years ago I had a GX carb apart and just for the heck of it I popped it in my ultrasonic cleaner. Wow. It was only two years old but I was amazed at the stuff at the bottom of the tank (had just put new Simple Green (Purple) in).


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

CalgaryPT said:


> ...I laminated this and have it on my shop wall...(had just put new Simple Green (Purple) in).


That's a real good idea. Does it print out pretty clean (high enough resolution)?

I think the purple stuff works really well. It will take some print off aluminum plates (manufacturers tags). Had that happen at least three times. I should know better by now.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

leonz said:


> I wonder if you had a sticky choke and the gum/varnish broke loose and is in the bottom of the bowl?
> 
> I forgot how well torch tip cleaners work on carburetors


that's a thoght. everytime i took the bowl and sediment cup off it was spotless.

before taking the carb off i am going to take off gas cap. i am wondering if i have a clogged vent or partially clogged vent on the cap. i only run it about 15-20 minutes at a time.

wonder if it could create enough vacuum from a bad cap so it won't start after sitting for a couple days. just gonna try this before removing the carb.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Found another Honda document that may help. Page 3-62 has some info on gas leaking:


https://tinyurl.com/y7lph3uw

http://www.ipspower.com/images/docu...buretor-Troubleshooting-Manual-Compressed.pdf


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 7, 2016)

jrom said:


> Does it print out pretty clean (high enough resolution)?


 Yup. Great. If you can't get it to I probably have the high res version PDF somewhere. Let me know. 

Also useful is: http://www.ipspower.com/images/docu...buretor-Troubleshooting-Manual-Compressed.pdf


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

I do have a 1.6MB version, it's the one we point to in the other posts. PDFs are funny, they can show a relatively lower size and open up to a clean file. 

After checking, the 1.6MB file opens to a 94.2MB file in Photoshop...good enough for print :smile_big:

I sure have produced enough of them over the years.

Tanks for the offer. Your prompt made me look into it.



CalgaryPT said:


> Yup. Great. If you can't get it to I probably have the high res version PDF somewhere. Let me know.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

great stuff.

have been done with a cold the last couple days so have not tore the carb apart yet. will check back when i find the problem.


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## jjpaul (Dec 10, 2017)

Sounds like too much gas. Pull the plug and you'll know if it's flooded. Plug will be very wet. If flooded pull the pull cord 10 times or so without plug in to clear gas. Put plug in and try to start with no choke. If it fires or sounds like it wants to fire it probably was flooded.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

jjpaul said:


> Sounds like too much gas. Pull the plug and you'll know if it's flooded. Plug will be very wet. If flooded pull the pull cord 10 times or so without plug in to clear gas. Put plug in and try to start with no choke. If it fires or sounds like it wants to fire it probably was flooded.


i've gone thru this 3 times. the plug looks normal. i was thinking the same thing and did the 10 pulls thing. i would get it running after cleaning carb and it would start everytime on first pull. let it sit for 15-20 minutes and it would start no problem and run great.

let it sit for a couple days and nothing would work to start it. took bowl off and no dirt. no smell of gas like it may be flooding. pulled the plug....normal. has healthy spark

this is an older 724 so maybe close to 20 years old. so when i take carb off i am going to change gas filter and fuel line. may as well.

then will take carb apart and check back when i find out what is going on.

thanks for all the suggestions. have had carb problems before that was easily fixed with a simple cleaning. nothing like this. it runs great once i get it started. just can't let it sit for a couple days.:crying:


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## vmax29 (Oct 19, 2017)

If you have WD40 spray a bit through the carb throat and start as you would normally (choke etc.) it works as a starter fluid but much safer on the rings. If it runs on WD chances are something is blocked or still hanging up with the carb (float). Just an easy test and has helped me trouble shoot many times. 

BTW the WD40 as a starter fluid idea came from a friend who was a small engine mechanic. I told him I tried to use starter fluid to get an angina going and he said to never use that. I think it had something to do with too much pressure in the single cylinder could damage rings. The WD works great and actually lubricates the stubborn rings before burning off.

Not much but hope it helps.


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## jjpaul (Dec 10, 2017)

What I would try if it was my machine.

If you suspect it still needs a carb cleaning here's what I would do. I used this method to thoroughly clean small honda motorcycle carbs that had been sitting for years.

1 Gallon can of Chem-Dip. It has a parts basket to put carb parts in and let it soak. After soaking over night ultrasonic clean with hot soapy water. And I never use anything to poke through jets. I use a loupe to see if jets are open. If not soak more.

or try this first. Pull plug after sitting for a few days before trying to start, if plug is dry squirt a little gas in the plug hole put the plug in and see if it wants to fire.

easy enough to see if gas is getting to carb just pull gas line.


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## jjpaul (Dec 10, 2017)

vmax29 said:


> BTW the WD40 as a starter fluid idea came from a friend who was a small engine mechanic. I told him I tried to use starter fluid to get an angina going and he said to never use that. I think it had something to do with too much pressure in the single cylinder could damage rings.


I think it's because starting fluid burns too hot.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello Orangeputeh,


It really sounds like the coil needs to be changed.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

Grasping at straws - are you sure the choke/throttle linkage doesn't need any adjustment? It may be stretched and not choking the carb.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

leonz said:


> Hello Orangeputeh,
> 
> 
> It really sounds like the coil needs to be changed.


can a coil work only sometimes. because i can get it going but if it sits for a day or so there is no spark. i wiggled the wiring and now i get a good spark. but not all the time.

i posted another thread on this when i found out it was not the carb.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

leonz said:


> Hello Orangeputeh,
> 
> 
> It really sounds like the coil needs to be changed.


update 12-31-17

yes, it was the coil. when i checked the coil it was working. sometimes sparked , sometimes not. i thought once a coil went bad it just did not work anymore.

went from weak spark, strong spark , sometime no spark. back and forth.

so changed the coil and now very good strong spark.

good to go. thanks everyone.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Its not grasping at straws or rocket science.

Glad to hear its working Orangeputeh,

A coil will contract when cold and expand when heated and then the winding's can no longer work and the engine dies as they have been broken down from age and use and as a result affecting the magnetic poles and the varnish/shellac coatings broken down as well over and hours of use. 


Happy New Year to you in 2 hours and 37 minutes,


leonz


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

leonz said:


> Its not grasping at straws or rocket science.
> 
> Glad to hear its working Orangeputeh,
> 
> ...


thank you. i learn something new all the time here.


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