# Similar engines to honda, harbor freight.



## Xilbus (Nov 30, 2018)

Hi guys,

These are engines that are available locally up here in Quebec and I was wondering if they are the same as the harbor freight popular engine? They all look like honda knockoffs.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Harbor Freight Predators are Loncin's. Many modern Toro's sold today also use Loncin engines.
There are a handful of Chinese Honda clone manufactures. Lifan is another popular one.
The slang term chonda is often used as a reference to China manufactured Honda clones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chonda


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Be careful with those cheap "Chinese knock off" engines. You get what you pay for. Have fun getting parts for them and if they even run from new is another story.
Have fun finding parts for them when they break. 
If you want reliability and longevity, plus quality, stay away from them.


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## Xilbus (Nov 30, 2018)

ST1100A said:


> Be careful with those cheap "Chinese knock off" engines. You get what you pay for. Have fun getting parts for them and if they even run from new is another story.
> Have fun finding parts for them when they break.
> If you want reliability and longevity, plus quality, stay away from them.


Yeah that's what I was thinking. If I ever do a engine swap I'll try to stick with honda or a b&s.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I've got Harbor Freight engines from the 90's that are still running well on cranberry equipment....the ones they sold before the Greyhound and Predator engines. All the parts are the same as Hondas....I've swapped parts between them and Hondas with no problems. On my personal go to blower, an ST 824 Ariens, I took a used engine from one of my harvesters and repowered the blower with the 6.5 Chondra in 03. It's been running flawlessly since then with the Chondra. If I have any issues with it that goes beyond a carb cleaning, I'll buy a Predator for $99 and keep going for another 20 years.....the only people I've seen negative about the Chinese engines seem to be people that haven't owned one. I just had delivered a couple of 208 cc Chinese snow engines that originally were made for MTD blowers for $79 delivered from E-bay. I mounted one on a 73 Ariens and am very pleased with it.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

The Naysayers Most likely have Never Used a Predator. Great Bang for the Buck. Parts are Readily Available on the Evil Site.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i used one of those 196cc princess auto engines on my ariens and it seemed to do pretty decent. good engines for the price. a lot cheaper than buying a new snowblower. just have to know how to start them in the cold. full choke full throttle and they usually start in a pull or 2 and if you are that picky you could probably find yourself a winter carb with the thing on it to add a primer. personally i found my machine always started on the first or 2nd pull. the only issue i ever really had was sometimes the governor linkage would freeze up if i didn't cover it when done using it.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

The 99.00 Predator has been doing me great for 6 years now ... I like it better than my B&S.


View attachment 155049


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Oddly enough, the predator engines are ALMOST complete clones of Honda’s. 

There are TRUE Honda clones that are pretty much identical with obviously lesser quality components. These engines are typically a bit more money then the predators. 

That being said, I’m a big fan of the predator motors. I see it as Certain applications deserve a Honda, and others fair perfectly with a clone.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Most of your "Naysayers" have had a lot of bad experience with the clone engines, expecting them to do as good or last like the Honda, so they have quite a lot more experience with the clones than people think.
Back in the 90's Honda licensed a China company to build the GC series engine along with some other series. The China Honda motors had a lot of problems and parts weren't exactly the same due to manufacturing tolenances. The Honda tolerances were much more exact. Because of the poor quality of the engines and the "stealing" of the trademark parts and engines, Honda cancelled the contract with the China companies that were making the engines.

If you used a Honda part in a clone motor you could have a problem with it, maybe not right away, but you could still have a problem in the future, especially if the engine was used hard or commercially. I remember when working for a Honda dealership, the parts we ordered were by the country of manufacture of the engine, meaning there was a difference in the part fitment.

Granted, a lot of the parts fit the Honda motor, but if one failed, you had a worthless motor. Since the clone motors were 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of the genuine Honda motor, you weren't out much money when the engine died.

Honda had sued in court the makers of a lot of the clone motors and had won parts of their case. The clone makers were at that time using the Honda name on their engines. They had to remove the Honda name and weren't allowed to use the Honda red color, but because China laws are different from USA laws, that was all that would change. There are no "Copyright" laws in China like there are in the USA, so not too much could be done about it. The Federal Trade Commision had got involved and was going to ban the import of those engines until they made some changes, like removing the Honda name and changing the colors of the engines so they weren't confused with the Honda motor.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I prefer the Honda for quality, some of the older Chondras didn't have good ignition switches, and the gas line rubber would crack after some years....that said, almost $500 for a Honda 6.5, or $99 for the Predator.....Here in SE Mass, we don't see 10 hrs a year on snowblowers. I have been using the Chondras since the late 90's commercially though, on small pumps and harvester engines, and when I started using them, I bought extras and kept them on the shelf in case of a failure....three years ago, I figured I didn't need to keep spares and put them on snowblowers


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

ST1100A said:


> Be careful with those cheap "Chinese knock off" engines. You get what you pay for. Have fun getting parts for them and if they even run from new is another story.
> Have fun finding parts for them when they break.
> If you want reliability and longevity, plus quality, stay away from them.


 Actually the reason the Predator 212cc engines are on 2 of my snowblowers is that they start in 1 to 2 pulls of the recoil every time and run great. The 5hp Tecumseh on my MTD was the poorest running engine I ever owned. It would seemingly go out of tune while running and it was difficult to start especially if left outside in the cold. There are tons of parts for the Harbor Freight Predator 212cc in both the Hemi and non hemi versions. Plus billet flywheels and connecting rods are available to build up this engine which can make 15 horsepower and run at 8000+ rpms.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

crazzywolfie said:


> i used one of those 196cc princess auto engines on my ariens and it seemed to do pretty decent. good engines for the price. a lot cheaper than buying a new snowblower. just have to know how to start them in the cold. full choke full throttle and they usually start in a pull or 2 and if you are that picky you could probably find yourself a winter carb with the thing on it to add a primer. personally i found my machine always started on the first or 2nd pull. the only issue i ever really had was sometimes the governor linkage would freeze up if i didn't cover it when done using it.


I put a metal shield over the space between the gas tank and the engine block from the side of the engine to the exhaust. It works really well and since December 2012 I only had one incident of the governor freezing up and I used my snow blower a lot this year. When the governor froze up on it once I noticed that it only ran at one speed and would not maintain rpm under load as well. Other than that it still blew snow. I have a heated garage and I thawed it out and it works perfect again. I may spray some WD40 on the linkages to prevent some of the icing but the shield really works.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

GustoGuy said:


> Actually the reason the Predator 212cc engines are on 2 of my snowblowers is that they start in 1 to 2 pulls of the recoil every time and run great. The 5hp Tecumseh on my MTD was the poorest running engine I ever owned. It would seemingly go out of tune while running and it was difficult to start especially if left outside in the cold. There are tons of parts for the Harbor Freight Predator 212cc in both the Hemi and non hemi versions. Plus billet flywheels and connecting rods are available to build up this engine which can make 15 horsepower and run at 8000+ rpms.


In your case you are better off with the Predator engine. The Tecumseh engines had a well known bad reputation for poor quality and all sorts of problems. They were world famous for being junk. Now that LCT took them over they are only marginally better, they still have a long way to go.

My Honda GX engines normally start with 1/2 to 1 pull when left out in the cold. If it takes more than 1 pull, there is something wrong with it.

When you are building race engines that you expect to blow up, you dont want to use too expensive of a motor that you can replace cheaply depending on what you are doing with them. Honda has a lot of the race parts available through a Honda Racing Corp dealer, they are genuine Honda parts, but you are looking at a lot of money for those parts or a whole race engine. Those have been around since back in the 80's and 90's. I remember building some that were used for karting, mini rail dragsters and other things. Some of the camshafts were actually from a motorcycle engine that would turn well over 8000 rpms. Thats a lot for those little motors, Some even used dry sump oiling. They were a lot of fun to play around with and they can be very expensive.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

cranman said:


> I prefer the Honda for quality, some of the older Chondras didn't have good ignition switches, and the gas line rubber would crack after some years....that said, almost $500 for a Honda 6.5, or $99 for the Predator.....Here in SE Mass, we don't see 10 hrs a year on snowblowers. I have been using the Chondras since the late 90's commercially though, on small pumps and harvester engines, and when I started using them, I bought extras and kept them on the shelf in case of a failure....three years ago, I figured I didn't need to keep spares and put them on snowblowers


Your average "Chondra" type engine has an average service life of approximately 200-300 engine hours that most are rated for, the standard Briggs was around 500hrs. The Briggs I/C motors were rated for 1000hrs, the Honda GX and Kawasaki's were rated at 2000 engine hours. The Honda GC, or "Garbage Can" was down around 500 or less engine hours, designed to compete with the Tecumseh and LCT motors. That is why the price was much lower.

Most of the people I deal with, myself included expect those high engine hours, long service life and reliability/dependability, longevity and so forth to get our moneys worth out of the equipment. They are a lot of "Old Timers", farmers and commercial people who keep running their "Old Iron" as long as they can. They expect at least 30-50+ years out of their equipment without any major problems, even a minor problem is too much for them. They don't mind spending a few extra bucks for quality, but a lot of the average homeowners just cant afford the extra costs anymore. 

The new Briggs "Intek" engine is another "Knock-off" copy of the Honda GX series engine, being made in China at present, That's how they got to copy the Honda blueprints and design with minor changes, but the quality of materials weren't quite up to the older Honda's quality. The Briggs Intek engines are at this time will be produced in the USA shortly. They are in the process of bringing the manufacturing back to this country now.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

ST1100A said:


> Your average "Chondra" type engine has an average service life of approximately 200-300 engine hours that most are rated for, the standard Briggs was around 500hrs. The Briggs I/C motors were rated for 1000hrs, the Honda GX and Kawasaki's were rated at 2000 engine hours. The Honda GC, or "Garbage Can" was down around 500 or less engine hours, designed to compete with the Tecumseh and LCT motors. That is why the price was much lower.
> 
> Most of the people I deal with, myself included expect those high engine hours, long service life and reliability/dependability, longevity and so forth to get our moneys worth out of the equipment. They are a lot of "Old Timers", farmers and commercial people who keep running their "Old Iron" as long as they can. They expect at least 30-50+ years out of their equipment without any major problems, even a minor problem is too much for them. They don't mind spending a few extra bucks for quality, but a lot of the average homeowners just cant afford the extra costs anymore.
> 
> The new Briggs "Intek" engine is another "Knock-off" copy of the Honda GX series engine, being made in China at present, That's how they got to copy the Honda blueprints and design with minor changes, but the quality of materials weren't quite up to the older Honda's quality. The Briggs Intek engines are at this time will be produced in the USA shortly. They are in the process of bringing the manufacturing back to this country now.


The Loncin and Rato built Predator 212cc has a cast iron sleeve and ball bearing support crankshaft and with a good synthetic oil with frequent oil changes should last for years and years. My oldest Predator 212cc is on my mini bike and it dates back to summer 2012 and it still runs great. I have a 2003 Hyundai Elantra gt and it has 427,000 miles on it and it has the original engine and transmission. I been using Amsoil synthetic oil and ATF in it since I bought it.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

GustoGuy said:


> The Loncin and Rato built Predator 212cc has a cast iron sleeve and ball bearing support crankshaft and with a good synthetic oil with frequent oil changes should last for years and years. My oldest Predator 212cc is on my mini bike and it dates back to summer 2012 and it still runs great. I have a 2003 Hyundai Elantra gt and it has 427,000 miles on it and it has the original engine and transmission. I been using Amsoil synthetic oil and ATF in it since I bought it.


Loncin, like the Huyndai are improving with time. Remember when they first came about, they weren't too good, but as time went by, they have improved.
I have been using Amsoil since back in the early 80's in all of my auto's and equipment. I like their power equipment oil, you don't have to keep changing it because of the season changes, from cold to hot. It still flows at -46 degrees F. Plus it performs very well under hot and severe conditions and you can go with the extended oil changes. I have my oil analyzed at changes to make sure there are no problems.
Amsoil is well worth the extra money you pay for it, you actually save money in the long run when it comes to higher mileage oil changes, that you dont have to do as often. Probably another reason you got the high mileage on your car, the Amsoil.


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## Doublee2005 (Nov 23, 2014)

I have used many Harbor freight engines without issues There is a huge following and incredible amount of parts and upgrade kits. 



 is one that I have been running hard for the past five years 212cc I paid $99 so less than $20 per year. You pay almost that for a Briggs gas tank. These engines have a ball bearing with crank. Briggs snow engines are all bushing cranks. The 212cc has incredible torque


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## Bluejoe (Nov 29, 2016)

Hey Cranman That sounds like a good price on those engines you purchased. You have the link to the EBay ad.


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## Thekidmechanic05 (Dec 4, 2018)

I like those harbor freight predators. I find them to be very reliable for the price. Obviously I would rather a Honda, but
I like those predators better than b&s and Tecumseh. That being said condos are good and all but the prices were way out of range if I were to get an engine to re-powered snowblower it would most likely be harbor freight predator or Tecumseh snow king. Briggs and Stratton are Great for lawnmowers, but they can’t take the beating in the winter as much as Tecumseh or Honda. Harbor freight predators are nice because they have a low oil shut off switch and a carburetor with a sediment bowl and Killswitch right on the front of the fan shroud. The only issue i found with the predators if you leave them sit for one season with gas in the tank and carburetor they seem to surge like crazy when you start them up again. So the predators have a cast iron cylinder sleeve and two different versions the non-hemi and hemi version. If you wanted to make more poweryou can take the governor out and put a billet fly wheel and you could easily put out 10 horsepower. Also they are good on gas and quiet.Currently have a predator engine on my Ariens snowblower and mini bike. Parts are not that hard to find on eBay.And when I said tecumseh snow king I don’t mean the new LCT engines because those are not that good I don’t like that style of Chinese engine because of all the electronic stuff they have. To come so I was still making engines they would definitely be dominating the snowball market more than every brand combined. Let me know what you guys think.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Bluejoe said:


> Hey Cranman That sounds like a good price on those engines you purchased. You have the link to the EBay ad.


Here you go Blue Joe https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTD-208cc-...MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648.....it was from a company called brandnewengines


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

the MTD motor seemed really torquey.....the only complaint I had was the 25mm crankshaft. 25mm is just 2 thousandths less then an inch , but it made for a sloppy fit for the pulley. I shimmed the crank with a couple of strips of aluminum flashing and it fit great. I bought some steel shim stock for the next repower. The engine doesn't have a shut off switch...it has a key you pull out to ground the engine, and it doesn't have a throttle. When I first fired it up to try out, it sounded too slow, but it threw 6 inches of heavy slush with out bogging at all. I've only got a half hour of time on the engine, but I recommend it. It has a unique feature in that it has a switch on the air filter to convert from winter engine(bypassing air filter) to summer engine (making air flow through the air filter.)


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