# Toro Power Clear 418 Snowblower Will Not Start



## Jack28

Hello. For the last 5 years or so, I've had a Toro Power Clear 418 snowblower.

Before this year, I used ethanol-free gasoline from a BP gas station near my home, and the fuel stabilizer Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment. According to the instructions for the Star Tron fuel stabilizer, I was supposed to 1) pour the proper amount of the fuel stabilizer into the snowblower's gas tank, and then 2) add the gasoline into the gas tank. The fuel stabilizer and the gasoline would mix inside the gas tank. So, this is exactly what I did.

During these years, I never changed the engine oil inside the snowblower.

During these years, the snowblower had some starting problems here and there, but the snowblower always worked properly.



This year, I could not find any gas stations containing ethanol-free gasoline. So, I used some gasoline from a Shell station near my home. This gasoline contained up to 10% ethanol.

Once again, I poured the proper amount of the Star Tron fuel stabilizer into the snowblower's gas tank, and then added the gasoline into the gas tank. The fuel stabilizer and the gasoline mixed inside the gas tank.

Well, the snowblower did not start. When I pressed the button on the electric starter, I heard engine noise. But, when I released the button, the noise was gone. Pulling the recoil starter produced no engine noise whatsoever.

I used a disptick to see how much engine oil I had. There was a small amount. So, I added some more oil. However, the oil I added may have been old oil. Still, the snowblower did not start.



So, I went to a Home Depot store. The guy at the store told me 1) that the Star Tron fuel stabilizer should first be poured into a gas can, and 2) that the gasoline should then be added to the gas can. The fuel stabilizer and the gasoline should first mix inside the gas can, not inside the snowblower's fuel tank. Next, I should pour the stabilizer-gasoline mixture into the snowblower's fuel tank. When I told the guy that I had been doing things the "other way" for years, he told me that the "other way" could have caused problems all those years and that those problems could have accumulated to prevent my snowblower from working now.

He did suggest that I change the engine oil immediately. So, I bought some new engine oil and went home. I was able to pour out the old engine oil very easily. The oil was not sticky at all. I then poured the new engine oil into the snowblower. The snowblower still did not start.

The guy also told me that I could be having problems with the sparkplug or the carburetor.



Prior to 1 or 2 years ago, before very summer, a friend and I would turn the snowblower over and pour the gasoline out of the fuel tank. That way, there would be no gasoline inside the snowblower during a hot summer. However, 1 or 2 years ago, I bought a cheap device that can suck the fuel out of the snowblower's fuel tank. This device saved me the trouble of turning over the snowblower.

But recently, I found out that, when gasoline is poured into the snowblower's fuel tank, the gasoline travels into the carburetor, which is connected to the fuel tank. When we were turning the snowblower over, we were pouring out the gasoline from the fuel tank and the connected carburetor. However, when using the sucking device, it's possible that I sucked the gasoline out of the fuel tank but did NOT remove the gasoline from the carburetor. So, some gasoline could have remained in the carburetor for 1 or 2 summers.

I loosened a screw on the carburetor to drain some gasoline from the carburetor (hoping that I was draining some old gasoline), and I tried to start the snowblower again. The snowblower did not start. So, I drained the rest of the gasoline from the carburetor and, by extension, the fuel tank.



So, why is my snowblower not starting? 

Could the carburetor be damaged from gasoline being inside the carburetor during 1 or 2 summers? 

Should I remove the sparkplug and check the sparkplug for damage? I don't have a torque tool. So, if I remove the sparkplug, I'm not sure that I'll be able to reattach the sparkplug properly.

I've heard that it may be a good idea to remove the sparkplug and insert gasoline or engine oil into the sparkplug hole. Should I do that? 

I'm asking these questions because all the repair shops in my neighborhood are booked for 1 month and I hope I can fix the snowblower myself.



The guy at Home Depot told me that I should have checked my snowblower in September. I told him that I had read somewhere, that running a snowblower when the outside temperature was above 40 F, was a very bad idea. He told me that, running the snowblower for only a minute in that high a temperature, would be OK. However, September and October can still be warm months. If I had left the gasoline in the snowblower during September and October, the snowblower could have been damaged.



Anyway, I appreciate any help. Thank you.


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## Yanmar Ronin

Start by removing the sparkplug and checking for condition, and does it spark while pulling the cord. Try a new one.

Could be the carburetor, yes; accumulated deposits from improper storage for many years. Would need to be overhauled or replaced.

You could also be suffering from low compression due to improper engine maintenance; ie running with low, dirty oil for an extended period.

Anyhow you don't need a torque wrench to install a sparkplug, thread it in as far as you can by hand then compress the sealing ring slightly with an additional 1/2~3/4 turn. Don't go crazy, it doesn't need to be *tight* tight.


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## LouC

First of all the guy from HD was right; you mix the fuel with the stabilizer in the gas can not in the tank of the snowblower.
Second these machines need some maintenance; you should change the motor oil at the end of each season.
Third while the Toro company tells you to drain the tank and run it out of fuel, if the fuel is stabilized often you will not have trouble the next year if you don't.but there is some risk that you might. 
Fourth I don't know who told you that you should not run a snowblower in warm weather
but they have no idea what they are talking about. A four stroke snow blower engine is no different than any other small engine . Running it in hot weather is fine. In fact I don't drain any of my 9 small engines except the out board and I run them all every 2-3 months. This keeps fuel from evaporating in the carb which is what causes problems.
You need to get someone to check the spark plug and clean out the carb.


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## Mike C.

"I used a disptick to see how much engine oil I had. There was a small amount."

That doesn't sound too promising.I wonder how many hours it ran with a "small amount"of oil in it?

One needs to check oil levels and change oil regularly.Just thought I'd beat a dead horse once more.


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## Jack28

Mike C. said:


> I wonder how many hours it ran with a "small amount"of oil in it?


Perhaps not many. If my memory is correct, last winter (winter of 2015 - 2016), there was only 1 day on which I used the snowblower.


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## Jack28

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Start by removing the sparkplug and checking for condition, and does it spark while pulling the cord. Try a new one.


The instructions for my snowblower say the following about servicing the sparkplug:

1. Stop the engine and wait for all moving parts to stop.
2. Disconnect the wire from the spark plug.
3. Clean around the spark plug.
4. Remove the spark plug from the cylinder head.

If you want me to check whether the sparkplug sparks when I pull the starting cord, then perhaps the wire should not be disconnected from the sparkplug. Perhaps I should simply remove the sparkplug from the cylinder head.

Or, perhaps I should 1) remove the wire, 2) remove the sparkplug from the cylinder head, and 3) reattach the wire to the sparkplug.

Also, how do I remove the wire? Do I turn the wire with my hands to unscrew the wire?

And, how do I remove the sparkplug from the cylinder head? Do I use my hands? Or pliers?


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## Yanmar Ronin

Jack, where are you located? Maybe a member can advise you on someplace reputable to take it in for a good once-over.

If you've not had a sparkplug out before you may be in over your head on this one... a proper socket wrench should have been included with the blower when new, you should use that, or of course a standard plug socket of the proper size and a ratchet. The wire should just pull off, it might be a little tight after all this time.

If you try to use a pliers you'll only make things much much worse.

Based on what you've said though I recommend professional assistance. Or maybe you have a neighbor who is small-engine savvy and can show you the ropes.


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## Jack28

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Jack, where are you located? Maybe a member can advise you on someplace reputable to take it in for a good once-over.
> 
> If you've not had a sparkplug out before you may be in over your head on this one... a proper socket wrench should have been included with the blower when new, you should use that, or of course a standard plug socket of the proper size and a ratchet. The wire should just pull off, it might be a little tight after all this time.
> 
> If you try to use a pliers you'll only make things much much worse.
> 
> Based on what you've said though I recommend professional assistance. Or maybe you have a neighbor who is small-engine savvy and can show you the ropes.



I live in Chicago, and I know some snowblower-repair shops. However, the snowblower is, of course, very heavy, and it would be a lot of trouble to load the snowblower into my car and take the snowblower to a repair shop. Also, the shops are booked up for a month.

There is a Jiffy Lube car-repair shop only two blocks from my home. I could walk my snowblower over there. Do you think that this shop could help me with the sparkplug issue?

Also, I don't think that there was a socket wrench included with the snowblower, but we may have a few socket wrenches at home.


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## Bluejoe

You can pull spark plug and check for deposits and also spark using a tester they are cheap and handy to have. Better yet just change plug and check if it's got spark. If spark fill tank with fresh fuel and let it drain into carburetor bowl. Rock snowblower just in case blow float is stuck. Try starting it with electric start. Full choke. You will probably at this time smell fuel. Also try some starting fluid. If you don't smell fuel out of carb line could be plugged. Get back on results.


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## EdwardC

Where in Chicago do you live? I'm not super experienced with snow blowers, but if we're close, maybe I could help?


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## LouC

There are msny you tube vids that explain how to change the oil and spark plugs on these snow blowers. Toro even had some on their website. Just make sure you have the right tools and a good idea of what's involved .


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## Yanmar Ronin

EdwardC said:


> Where in Chicago do you live? I'm not super experienced with snow blowers, but if we're close, maybe I could help?


You're better than Jiffy-screwed for sure... ccasion14:

Jack, don't take it near those monkeys, if anyone will mess it up worse than you it's them (no offense).

Exchange a PM or two with Ed C. and maybe make a connection? At least on the phone maybe you could go over some things easier than back 'n forth via keyboard...

Heck PM me your number and I'll give you a shout. A little further away though...


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## Jack28

Yanmar Ronin said:


> You're better than Jiffy-screwed for sure... ccasion14:
> 
> Jack, don't take it near those monkeys, if anyone will mess it up worse than you it's them (no offense).
> 
> Exchange a PM or two with Ed C. and maybe make a connection? At least on the phone maybe you could go over some things easier than back 'n forth via keyboard...
> 
> Heck PM me your number and I'll give you a shout. A little further away though...



Well, I'm not sure that I feel comfortable giving out my phone number or address to strangers on an online forum, but thanks for the offers. 

Near the Jiffy Lube, there is a Mobil gas station that also repairs cars. Perhaps that station can take care of the sparkplug issue.


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## JD in NJ

Jack28 said:


> Well, I'm not sure that I feel comfortable giving out my phone number or address to strangers on an online forum, but thanks for the offers.


I understand that for sure, but if you can find a reasonably anonymous way to voice chat (say using skype or lync or discord) it would probably be worth your while. I suspect I'm not the only one who read about using pliers and screamed a little bit. I'm quite certain that very nearly all the people on this forum and offering to help you are sincere in their desire to not have you make a minor bad situation into something much worse. Proper tools + a little bit of know-how are very valuable things to have and they last a very long time.


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## EdwardC

I'm in the Logan Square area, if you change your mind! I think your best bet might be to go watch a bunch of youtube videos. They've helped me immensely with a lot of small engine issues.


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## Yanmar Ronin

Jack28 said:


> Well, I'm not sure that I feel comfortable giving out my phone number or address to strangers on an online forum, but thanks for the offers.


Lol you can see my snow machine in my avatar, and also you'll notice I'm in Japan... I'd say the chances I'm going to come over and rob you of yer broke stuff are fairly remote. (see what I did thar) 

Another member has trusted me with his kid, true story... link available upon request.


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## Jack28

Well, I found some socket wrenches in my home, and I have attached a photo of them. Hopefully, one of these will work on my sparkplug. 

Please let me know whether these tools are correct for sparkplug removal and attachment.


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## Yanmar Ronin

No.


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## Jack28

Yanmar Ronin said:


> No.



No, what? Can you elaborate?


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## Yanmar Ronin

You need a spark plug socket of the proper size, or a least a deep socket.

Someone else may jump in elaborate more for you sooner... atm I'm between a load of laundry, stove maintenance and a hollering 7 month old... :wavetowel2:


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## Jack28

EdwardC said:


> I'm in the Logan Square area, if you change your mind! I think your best bet might be to go watch a bunch of youtube videos. They've helped me immensely with a lot of small engine issues.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAYLntRsItA


Unfortunately, the above video does not really help me much. My sparkplug is in the *rear* of the snowblower. I don't think that I have to remove the shroud to get to my sparkplug, and the instructions do not mention anything about removing the shroud. My Power Clear model is 418.


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## Jack28

Yanmar Ronin said:


> You need a spark plug socket of the proper size, or a least a deep socket.


If my socket wrenches don't work, I also have some other wrenches (see attached photo).


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## Yanmar Ronin

The 1/2" is the only wrench there, the other two are toys. And no, none of them will work either.

At this point I'm definitely gonna say you need the help of your local shop, and the sooner you get it in the better.


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## mrfixit

Jack28
From your replies I will suggest doing what ever is necessary to haul your blower to a repair shop. If you can't check the oil, change the oil, mix fuel stabilizer or remove a spark plug I seriously doubt you can fix this blower. :signlol:


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## JD in NJ

The problem with those tools is a simple one. Even if one of them has the right size hex pattern for your plug, I very much doubt they'll be long enough to fit all the way down over the rest of the plug. You'd be left trying to spin air.

The BEST tool is one of these:








and one of these:









The low-cost solution (and these kinds of things are often included with power equipment) is one of these:


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## Jack28

mrfixit said:


> Jack28
> From your replies I will suggest doing what ever is necessary to haul your blower to a repair shop. If you can't check the oil, change the oil, mix fuel stabilizer or remove a spark plug I seriously doubt you can fix this blower. :signlol:


If you look at my first post, you will see that I did check the oil and did change the oil.


And I mixed the gasoline and the fuel stabilizer according to the instructions on the bottle of the fuel stabilizer. Here are the instructions:

INITIAL DOSAGE: Add 1 fl. oz. (30 ml) for every 3 gallons (11 L) of gas.
REFILL: Add 1 fl. oz. (30 ml) for every 6 gallons (22 L) of gas.

Always add Star Tron just before each fuel fillup. <b>Remove cap and pour the prescribed amount into tank.</b> Overdosing is not harmful.

Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment Gas Additive Small Engine


The guy at Home Depot told me that the instructions were wrong. I asked him whether his store had sold that stabilizer to me. He replied that the store did not carry that particular stabilizer. But a check of the Home Depot website indicates that Home Depot does, indeed, sell that stabilizer. So, this guy's store sold me a stabilizer with faulty instructions.


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## Jack28

JD in NJ said:


> The problem with those tools is a simple one. Even if one of them has the right size hex pattern for your plug, I very much doubt they'll be long enough to fit all the way down over the rest of the plug. You'd be left trying to spin air.


Well, that depends on the size of the plug. 

Also, when I mentioned the use of pliers, some people on this forum seemed very unhappy. Will pliers destroy the plug? I found some message board where some guy said that he took a sparkplug out of his car using pliers.


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## Snowbelt_subie

opcorn: :behindsofa:

what is going on in here lol


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## EdwardC

Pliers might work, it's just a matter of getting a grip around the spark plug. We're all probably overthinking this and confusing you. All you need to do is unscrew the spark plug. It's basically a bolt. Pull out the spark plug wire (just pull with your hands), get some kind of tool to unscrew the spark plug. If it looks like the model in the link, it should be very easy to get to: Toro 38282 Power Clear 418 ZE | Electric Start | Snow Blowers & Snowblower Accesories | Snow Blower Source

I think the hesitation from the other members about using pliers is that it isn't the ideal tool. You may or may not be able to get in to even reach the spark plug, and if you do, you may not have good grip on it, and at that point, you could potentially round out the spark plug, making removal even more difficult. With the proper spark plug tool, it's trivial. 

The spark plug is just one of many possibilities that could be causing your blower to not start. It's suppose to be one of the easier initial troubleshooting steps. It is likely that the carburetor also needs to be cleaned or maybe the valves need to be adjusted, both of which is significantly more in depth than removing the spark plug. I would recommend getting to the repair shop or asking a neighbor or family member for help.


Edit: Just found this video, it looks like your exact model


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## JD in NJ

Jack28 said:


> Well, that depends on the size of the plug.
> 
> Also, when I mentioned the use of pliers, some people on this forum seemed very unhappy. Will pliers destroy the plug? I found some message board where some guy said that he took a sparkplug out of his car using pliers.



Look, if you want to try those various socket wrenches, by all means go ahead. Maybe my eyes are tricking me and one will be both the right size and deep enough. Heaven knows I have trouble enough selecting sockets by eye.

I suppose if you are happy with the idea of destroying the plug because you have a replacement lined up you could consider using pliers to remove it. The chances of doing damage to the plug are very great, though, because of the nature of how pliers work. And in the name of all that is good in this world, never attempt to install a plug with them.

It has been said that it is smart to learn from your experiences. Well it's a whole lot smarter to learn from the experiences of others if you can. The right tool for the right job.


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## Jack28

JD in NJ said:


> The low-cost solution (and these kinds of things are often included with power equipment) is one of these:



What is that low-cost tool called?


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## EdwardC

Jack28 said:


> What is that low-cost tool called?


Should be able to find it as a "Spark Plug Wrench" 

Home Depot: Power Care Extended Spark Plug Wrench-490-850-H011 - The Home Depot
Menards: https://www.menards.com/main/tools-...24337406-c-19258.htm?tid=-1288450399706525296

It's likely in the small engine parts and maintenance section. Might be available at automotive stores too.

Good luck!


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## mrfixit

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers.

If I understand your OP you changed the oil after 5 years, correct. The engine was ran low on oil also. Every season would be the minimum for an oil change.

The stabilizer gas mix I would never do that way. Mix in a gas can. Lesson learned.

The spark plug removal, if you don't know the proper tool for this procedure.................

I believe you are asking for help but not listening. I also believe your mechanical ability is lacking to say the least.


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## LouC

If you're going to learn how to work on small engines thinking of removing a spark plug with pliers shows that you are starting at ground zero in terms of knowledge base. Get a Toro repair manual and find out what proper tools you need. The way you are thinking you will cause more harm than good .....


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## jtclays

"During these years, I never changed the engine oil inside the snowblower."

"I used a disptick to see how much engine oil I had."

"The oil was not sticky at all."

"But recently, I found out that, when gasoline is poured into the snowblower's fuel tank, the gasoline travels into the carburetor, which is connected to the fuel tank. "


If any of the above quotes are true you need to pack up the blower and bring it to a shop that services snowblowers........ even if they have a month wait. Month off may be good.


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## EdwardC

The good news is that we have some pretty crazy weather forecasted. For being as cold as it is today and the last few days, it looks like every time it precipitates, it warms up and comes down as rain!


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## stromr

*This is why I don't comment more...*

doesn't know you change oil every year

doesn't know what wrench to use to change a sparkplug

doesn't realize the instructions for mixing stabilizer and fuel are written for a car gas tank

What we have here is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. 

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


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## Jack28

jtclays said:


> "During these years, I never changed the engine oil inside the snowblower."
> 
> "I used a disptick to see how much engine oil I had."
> 
> "The oil was not sticky at all."
> 
> "But recently, I found out that, when gasoline is poured into the snowblower's fuel tank, the gasoline travels into the carburetor, which is connected to the fuel tank. "
> 
> 
> If any of the above quotes are true you need to pack up the blower and bring it to a shop that services snowblowers........ even if they have a month wait. Month off may be good.



Regarding my quotes:

1) I knew for quite some time that I would have to change the oil on the snowblower. The instructions said that the oil change was required. I was simply putting off the oil change because I had never changed my own oil before.

2) I used a dipstick to check the oil amount, because the snowblower instructions specified that that was the way to check the oil amount. 

3) The guy at Home Depot said that, because the oil was old, the oil would be very sticky and I would have a very difficult time getting the oil out of the snowblower. But the oil was not sticky and flowed out of the snowblower quite nicely. I thought that that was a good sign.


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## Jack28

mrfixit said:


> The stabilizer gas mix I would never do that way. Mix in a gas can. Lesson learned.


Did mixing the stabilizer and the gasoline inside the snowblower's fuel tank, cause the snowblower to stop working? Shouldn't the manufacturer of the stabilizer be held accountable for putting out faulty instructions?


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## Yanmar Ronin

A confederacy of mismanagement on your part has caused the snowblower to "stop working". Nothing else/no other fingers to point.

Read the manual next time, and adhere to the guidelines therein. As you've now discovered they're actually there for a reason.

Your failure to do so with this blower is no one's emergency but your own.

/Ronin, I know a basket case when I see one. Get it into a shop ASAP and hope it's still salvageable.


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## LouC

Jack28 said:


> Did mixing the stabilizer and the gasoline inside the snowblower's fuel tank, cause the snowblower to stop working? Shouldn't the manufacturer of the stabilizer be held accountable for putting out faulty instructions?


Unfortunately you did not read the Toro manual because you would see there that you are supposed to mix the Stabil in the gas can and also you are supposed to change the oil once a season. They also recommend running the machine out of gas to prevent fuel system issues.
These machines need maintenance if you want them to work; esp with today's gas. If you want a no maintenance machine sell this one and get an electric.


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## mrfixit

jack28

Will you ever admit you messed up? Will you ever admit you're not qualified to fix this blower?

You came here for help or at least it seems that way or you're pulling our leg. You have been given some great advice and you continue to justify your actions. 

I'm guessing you never touch your vehicle and have the maintenance done on it or you don't do any on that also. If you don't do any maintenance on the car why do you think you can do it on the blower?

I quote Ron White " you can't fix stupid"

This was meant to ruffle feathers.


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## Jack28

LouC said:


> Unfortunately you did not read the Toro manual because you would see there that you are supposed to mix the Stabil in the gas can and also you are supposed to change the oil once a season. They also recommend running the machine out of gas to prevent fuel system issues.
> These machines need maintenance if you want them to work; esp with today's gas. If you want a no maintenance machine sell this one and get an electric.



Here is what my manual says about fuel stabilizer:

"For best results, purchase only the quantity of gasoline that you expect to use in 30 days. Otherwise, you may add fuel stabilizer to newly purchased gasoline to keep it fresh for 6 months."

That's all. There is no mention of the fact that I have to mix the gasoline and the stabilizer in the gas can.


I tried running the machine out of gas once, and it was taking forever. Besides, other people have said that running the machine out of gas simply wears out your engine.


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## Jack28

mrfixit said:


> jack28
> 
> You have been given some great advice and you continue to justify your actions.



And I will be taking that advice.

I will take out the ignition wire by hand. 

I will then try to remove the sparkplug, with the socket wrenches that I have or with my bare hands. If that doesn't work, I will go to Home Depot and buy a better socket wrench.

And I'm not sure what actions you think I'm trying to justify.


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## Landngroove

Is this for real???????


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## nwcove

:dizzy:


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## mrfixit

:bs::icon-deadhorse::icon_cussing_black:


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## LouC

Well even if you just read the instructions on the stabil bottle, it gives you mixing instructions for a 2.5 gallons of gas. The snow blower fuel tank does not hold nearly that much. So how much stabil did you put in the blower's tank?
According to stabil you add 1oz for 2.5 gallons of gas. Using common sense here would lead you to the conclusion that the blower tank is too small for mixing it in. The blower only holds 1.4 qts of gas...
On on the older Toros with 2 stroke engines like mine it specifically tells you to mix in the two stroke oil in the gas can, same goes for stabil...


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## Jack28

LouC said:


> Well even if you just read the instructions on the stabil bottle, it gives you mixing instructions for a 2.5 gallons of gas. The snow blower fuel tank does not hold nearly that much. So how much stabil did you put in the blower's tank?
> According to stabil you add 1oz for 2.5 gallons of gas. Using common sense here would lead you to the conclusion that the blower tank is too small for mixing it in. The blower only holds 1.4 qts of gas...
> On on the older Toros with 2 stroke engines like mine it specifically tells you to mix in the two stroke oil in the gas can, same goes for stabil...


I didn't use Stabil. I used the Star Tron brand of fuel stabilizer:

Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment Gas Additive Small Engine

I poured between 1 and 2 bottle caps of Star Tron stabilizer into the snowblower's gasoline tank, which holds only 1/3 of a gallon of gasoline.


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## cdestuck

Jack you should contact a attorney right away and proceed against Star Tron for giving you bum info causing your machine to be DOA. I'm sure a good lawyer will get you so much money that you'll be able to buy a new machine and pay some lawn jockey to blow your snow.


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## Jack28

Here is an update on my situation:


I tried to remove the sparkplug with the socket wrenches that I already had, but those wrenches were not of the correct size. So, as advised by someone on this forum, I went to Home Depot and bought the following tool:

Power Care Extended Spark Plug Wrench-490-850-H011 - The Home Depot


This tool was of the correct size and did fit my sparkplug. I turned the tool counter-clockwise as hard as I could. However, the sparkplug was on so tight, that the Home Depot tool could not move the sparkplug at all. So, the sparkplug is still on the snowblower.

I have attached some photos. The first photo shows the sparkplug. The second and third photos show the Home Depot tool. In the third photo, notice that the tool's shape does NOT seem to be a perfect hexagon. Could that be why this tool was unable to move the sparkplug?

The fourth photo shows the Home Depot tool on the sparkplug. 


So, what's going on here? Why can this tool not move the sparkplug? 


I found the following tool on the Walmart website:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Briggs-and-Stratton-Extended-Spark-Plug-Wrench/16778628#about-item

Would the Walmart tool be better?


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## nwcove

from the pics, that is actually two differently sized plug wrenches not meant to be used as one tool. use the one that fits the plug on your machine.


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## Jack28

nwcove said:


> from the pics, that is actually two differently sized plug wrenches not meant to be used as one tool. use the one that fits the plug on your machine.


These two wrenches are supposed to be attached to each other, to form one wrench that is long enough. If I used just the wrench that fit my plug, then that wrench would be too short.


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## The Q

Sounds like the plug is seized up in there. Is there some way you could get a longer handle for that wrench to apply more leverage to loosen that plug. Or maybe a neighborhood kid with more strength than you have?


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## nwcove

sorry, i read it as the wrench was slipping. ( not a perfect octagon) . a properly sized plug socket or even a deep socket and ratchet should get the plug out with a palm slap on the handle to break it free.


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## Jack28

nwcove said:


> sorry, i read it as the wrench was slipping. ( not a perfect octagon) . a properly sized plug socket or even a deep socket and ratchet should get the plug out with a palm slap on the handle to break it free.



The Home Depot sparkplug wrench does NOT fit tightly over the sparkplug's hexagonal shape. The Home Depot wrench is slipping sideways when I try to turn the wrench counter-clockwise. 

Should I try the Walmart wrench instead? 

If the sparkplug is seized up in there, should I use anti-seize or penetrating oil on the sparkplug before using a sparkplug wrench?


----------



## EdwardC

I'm not sure I follow. Does the Home Depot tool fit down on the spark plug? If so, does the tool spin? Or does it slip around? If it is loose, it may just be a poorly made tool, or its the wrong size. Did you try the other ends of the tool to see if one fit better? If it goes on but you just can't unscrew it, I would try some penetrating fluid, and possibly use a metal pipe as an extension to get some more leverage.

If it doesn't fit right, assuming you have a 3/8" ratchet, your best bet is to get proper sockets to use.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stanley-3-8-Sparkplug-Socket-3pc/16913727


----------



## 204carcrazy

You can use penetrate oil on the base of the plug , it may help. Your wrench is sized for 2 different size of spark plugs , select the end that fits over the 6 sided base of the plug insert rod into hole and turn anticlockwise . If you can put a piece of pipe over the rod to extend its length this will give you more leverage and increase chance of removing plug . good luck jim


----------



## Jack28

EdwardC said:


> I'm not sure I follow. Does the Home Depot tool fit down on the spark plug? If so, does the tool spin? Or does it slip around?


The Home Depot tool has 4 ends of different sizes, 13/16" being the biggest size. The 13/16" end does fit down around the sparkplug. The other 3 ends are too small. (See attached photo.) 

However, if I try to move the tool up and down (as if I'm jerking the tool off, if you'll pardon the sexual imagery), the tool moves. The tool is not FIRMLY around the sparkplug. My understanding is that the tool should be so firmly around the sparkplug that it would be impossible to move the tool up and down.

Also, when I attempt to turn the tool counter-clockwise, the tool may be spinning a tiny bit of air before hitting the sparkplug. Once the tool hits the sparkplug, the tool goes no further. 




> If it doesn't fit right, assuming you have a 3/8" ratchet, your best bet is to get proper sockets to use.
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stanley-...40571045080167289600&affillinktype=10&veh=aff


Please look at the 0:33 mark in the video below.






Because of the part labeled OHV and the black part surrounding the sparkplug, the socket that I use has to be at least 6 inches long. The sockets you showed me are way too short.


----------



## LouC

That is a cheap tool I would not use. If the 13/16ths fits your plug perfectly then go to Sears or an auto parts store and buy a proper 13/16ths plug socket, a 3/8ths drive ratchet and a short extension. Stop fooling around and do this right!!
Those tools do not allow you to get enough leverage to get out a plug that might be a bit difficult to remove. You need a proper ratchet wrench and a real spark plug socket. The only thing those cheap tools are good for is to determine the size of your plug and small engines use several different sizes....
If the plug does not come out even when using the right tools then you will need a mechanic. I'd probably buy a spare plug first, fab up a jumper wire with large alligator clamps to ground the plug on the engine and then hook up the new plug to the spark plug wire. Put one alligator clip on the threaded end of the plug and the other on the fins of the cyl head. Have someone pull the recoil starter and make sure you see a spark between the 2 electrodes of the plug. This test will tell you if the ignition coil/module is working. If it is then replacing the old plug may help. If not then you need a new coil. Which will probably require the services of a small engine mechanic. I did one last year on our Echo blower. About $40 for the parts and 45 min of my labor. But then I've been working on engines, well since Nixon was president lol! Got my first set of Craftsman tools in 1972.....still have em.....


----------



## justintendo

im sure it just needs a ratchet, extension, and socket and it will come right out. lol, then hes going to have to figure out a way to check spark


----------



## ih8thepackers

is this for real?


----------



## Jack28

justintendo said:


> im sure it just needs a ratchet, extension, and socket and it will come right out. lol, then hes going to have to figure out a way to check spark


If I got the sparkplug out, I would do one of the following:

1) attach the sparkplug to the sparkplug wire, and then pull on the starter cord

2) attach the sparkplug to the sparkplug wire, and then try the electric starter

That's how I would check the sparkplug for spark.


----------



## alfredk

He's a troll. and the only thing he's proved is how helpful the members of this forum are. What jack? Got laughed off facebook and decided to pick on northerners with busted up old snow blowers. Not cool.


----------



## Jack28

alfredk said:


> He's a troll. and the only thing he's proved is how helpful the members of this forum are. What jack? Got laughed off facebook and decided to pick on northerners with busted up old snow blowers. Not cool.


What does this thread have to do with Facebook? I have not discussed this issue on Facebook.


----------



## LouC

Jack28 said:


> If I got the sparkplug out, I would do one of the following:
> 
> 1) attach the sparkplug to the sparkplug wire, and then pull on the starter cord
> 
> 2) attach the sparkplug to the sparkplug wire, and then try the electric starter
> 
> That's how I would check the sparkplug for spark.


Well do you know that, the metal part of the spark plug has to be grounded against the engine or this test will not work?
Go back and read what I wrote and then you have to figure out how to fab up a ground wire. I would not even bother to take the old plug out to do this, buy a new one and test the coil this way. Because if there is no spark its going to a mechanic anyway. I don't think you're going to be replacing a coil. Having said that, on a machine that new its probably a carb problem....


----------



## detdrbuzzard

I just read this post, jack spend some time on donnyboy's you tube channel. though the snowblowers may not be the same as you have the principals are the same


----------



## Jack28

Well, I have great news! I found a ratchet, a bunch of sockets, and an extension, in a toolbox in my home. So, I got the sparkplug out of the snowblower. I have attached 3 photos of the plug. Does the plug look very damaged? 

As for checking the plug for sparks, LouC said that I have to use the alligator clamps of a jumper cable to connect the threaded end of the plug to the fins on the cylinder head. I have attached a photo of my snowblower's cylinder head and a photo of the alligator clamps on my jumper cables. As you can see, my clamps are very big. I tried to attach a clamp to the cylinder-head areas indicated by the black arrows, but the clamp was too big to reach those areas. Should I buy smaller clamps, such as the following:


----------



## LouC

See how easy it is with the right tools!
The plug looks carboned up, Id replace it but you have to check the plug gap and make sure it matches Toro's specs. As far as the alligator clamps yes those are too big. What you need is something just big enough to go around the threaded part of the plug. You can get them at Radio Shack. When replacing the plug thread it in carefully by hand till its snug. Then tighten with the ratchet....if a new plug with a gasket you go about 1/2 turn past hand tight to seat the gasket. The black deposits on the plug insulator suggest a rich fuel mixture or weak spark...the insulator should by light brown, or tan....


----------



## Jack28

LouC said:


> As far as the alligator clamps yes those are too big. What you need is something just big enough to go around the threaded part of the plug. You can get them at Radio Shack.


The threaded part of my plug has a diameter of 0.5". So, how far must the alligator clip open? What should be the open width?

RadioShack has the following jumper wires with alligator clips:

https://www.radioshack.com/products/mini-alligator-jump-cbl

But these clips look like they're too small.


----------



## detdrbuzzard

never mind checking or cleaning up that plug get a new one


----------



## LouC

https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-2-1-2-insulated-grip-alligator-clips

Actually something like this would work, you clip one end on the side electrode of the plug, the other on a good ground on the engine (like the cooling fins on the cyl head). Connect the clips with a length of 16 or 14 gauge wire...

Over the years, the great majority of my small engine issues has been carburation but I have had a few bad plugs and one bad coil....
Checking for spark to rule out ignition issues is always a good idea, even to test a new plug.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/snowblower-repairs-maintenance-forum/107297-weak-no-spark.html

Another cause of weak or no spark and one that many people would not even think of. Usually its the coil but if the magnets are weak, well then even a good coil and plug won't get it started. Not a common problem though.





this shows it nicely. He did not use a jumper wire for the ground, and it can work if the plug will stay firmly up against the engine (ground).....


----------



## Jack28

LouC said:


> https://www.radioshack.com/products/radioshack-2-1-2-insulated-grip-alligator-clips
> 
> Actually something like this would work, you clip one end on the side electrode of the plug, the other on a good ground on the engine (like the cooling fins on the cyl head). Connect the clips with a length of 16 or 14 gauge wire...



I found the following product at Walmart:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/3M-Electrical-Connectors/36141658#about-item

The clips look like they could be the right size (not too big, not too small). However, I don't know how much gauge is in the wire, and I don't want to buy a huge spool of wire separately.


----------



## LouC

That'll work, just clip one on the side electrode and the other on a cooling fin on the engine, or a small bolt, anything on the engine you can secure it to. Then get someone to pull the recoil starter while you look for a spark between the center and side electrode on the plug. Don't forget to turn the ignition key on first, or no sparky :wink:


----------



## Jack28

LouC said:


> That'll work, just clip one on the side electrode and the other on a cooling fin on the engine, or a small bolt, anything on the engine you can secure it to. Then get someone to pull the recoil starter while you look for a spark between the center and side electrode on the plug. Don't forget to turn the ignition key on first, or no sparky :wink:


In the attached photo, I have drawn arrows pointing to two areas around the cylinder head. Can I attach the alligator clip to one of these areas? Or, do I have to remove the shroud and attach a clip to an engine part?


----------



## all3939

Jack28 said:


> In the attached photo, I have drawn arrows pointing to two areas around the cylinder head. Can I attach the alligator clip to one of these areas? Or, do I have to remove the shroud and attach a clip to an engine part?


Any non painted metal in the motor area will be just fine.


----------



## Jack28

OK. I have just a few more questions.

1) For the sparkplug test, do I have to have the choke "on" or "off"?

2) Currently, there is no gasoline in the snowblower, but there is engine oil. Do I have to have gasoline in the snowblower for the sparkplug test?

3) I just bought the following connector wires:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/3M-Electrical-Connectors/36141658

I have a black wire and a red wire. Does it matter which wire I use to connect the sparkplug's electrode to the engine? Is one wire positive and the other negative? Or does that matter only if I'm jumpstarting a car battery?


----------



## CarlB

Choke doesn't matter
You do not need gasoline
wire color doesn't matter. For battery starting its best to use red for positive and black for negative.


----------



## LouC

Just make sure the key is on and the clips are securely attached. 
If your spark test is good then you move on to the carb...


----------



## Jack28

I ran the sparkplug test.

I pulled the recoil starter numerous times. There was a spark only a few times, and the spark was yellow.

So, does that mean that the sparkplug is bad?


----------



## micah68kj

I know this isn't helping you at this moment with your situation but after you mixed up the startron/gas did you start your blower and let it run for a minute so the mixture gets into the carb? You need to do that from now on.


----------



## LouC

Jack28 said:


> I ran the sparkplug test.
> 
> I pulled the recoil starter numerous times. There was a spark only a few times, and the spark was yellow.
> 
> So, does that mean that the sparkplug is bad?


For sure it could be . Now get a new plug and see what it does...


----------



## BeerGhost

*Do NOT buy one of those E3 spark plugs.*


----------



## Jack28

micah68kj said:


> I know this isn't helping you at this moment with your situation but after you mixed up the startron/gas did you start your blower and let it run for a minute so the mixture gets into the carb? You need to do that from now on.


Each time I start the blower, I wait a little bit, and then I turn the choke off. I'm not sure how long I wait. This is what happened in previous winters.

However, this winter, I could not get the blower started at all.


----------



## Jack28

BeerGhost said:


> *Do NOT buy one of those E3 spark plugs.*


I will go to Home Depot and ask for a sparkplug specifically designed for my snowblower.


----------



## micah68kj

Jack28 said:


> Each time I start the blower, I wait a little bit, and then I turn the choke off. I'm not sure how long I wait. This is what happened in previous winters.
> 
> However, this winter, I could not get the blower started at all.


I mean when you store your blower for the summer. That's when you need to put the startron/gas mixture in the tank and then start and run it for a minute to let the carb fill up with the mixture.


----------



## Jack28

OK. I bought a replacement sparkplug for my snowblower, and I'll be installing that sparkplug soon.

Now, I need to know which fuel to buy for the snowblower. In previous winters, I used ethanol-free fuel from a gas station near my home. Now, it seems that every gas station in the Chicago area has a sign that says, "Fuel contains up to 10% ethanol."

I read somewhere that premium fuel at these stations is ethanol-free, but I read elsewhere, that the idea that premium fuel at these stations is ethanol-free, is only a rumor. 

So, as far as I know, here are my options:

1) Buy E-10 fuel at a gas station, and use Star Tron or Sta-bil fuel stabilizer.

2) Try to find a gas station that sells ethanol-free premium fuel, and use Star Tron or Sta-bil fuel stabilizer.

3) Use something like Tru-Fuel:

TruFuel 4-Cycle Ethanol-free Fuel-6527238 - The Home Depot

Tru-Fuel is ethanol-free fuel pre-mixed with a fuel stabilizer.

Tru-Fuel seems to be very expensive ($6.00 for a quarter of a gallon).



So, what do I do?


----------



## all3939

This is what I do for the last 10 years. In 2cycle I use 89 octane and in the 4 cycle I use 87 octane. Along with the gas I use year round https://www.walmart.com/ip/16645043?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222228019318098&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=42965822432&wl4=pla-81457596752&wl5=9004301&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=16645043&wl13=&veh=sem As per instructions and also use https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sea-Foam-SF-16-Motor-Treatment-16-oz.-Multi-Colored/16664932?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=3420&adid=22222222228017563059&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=m&wl3=57996458928&wl4=pla-81965762208&wl5=9004301&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=16664932&wl13=3420&veh=sem @ 1once per gallon. For the 2 cycle I also use 21224 Opti-2 2 cycle engine oil 12 oz for all oil mix ratios. I never had a no start after winter storage and never a problem with snowblower equipment after its long storage. Some may disagree here but this has always worked.


----------



## Jack28

Hi, folks. I have an update on my snowblower situation.

I installed a new sparkplug. I mixed Shell V-Power Premium gasoline with Star Tron fuel stabilizer inside a gas can. I poured the mixture into the snowblower's fuel tank.

The engine oil in the snowblower is relatively new (I changed the oil in December 2016).

I pushed the key into the "on" position. I set the choke to the "on" position. I pushed the primer 3 times. I ran the electric starter, and nothing happened. The snowblower still did not start.

I removed the sparkplug, and used the alligator clips to test the sparkplug. When I repeatedly pulled the recoil starter to test the sparkplug, the sparkplug sparked every other time, and the color was blue. So, it appeared that the sparkplug was good. So, I reinstalled the sparkplug. 

I tried the electric starter again, and nothing happened. However, when I pulled the recoil starter, the engine ran for 1 second, and then stopped running. This was progress. Before I installed the new sparkplug, when I pulled the recoil starter, the engine did not run at all. 

After the engine ran for 1 second, I pulled the recoil starter many more times. The engine repeated its 1-second performance only 1 out 5 times. At all other times, the engine did not run at all. 

I tried both starters with the choke set to "off". Same results. Next, I set the choke back to "on" and pushed the primer 3 more times. I tried both starters again. Same results.

So, what's going on? Is the carburetor the problem? Should I try to apply carburetor-cleaner fluid?


----------



## RIT333

Are you sure that you have the gas tank's fuel shutoff in the on position ?

If there a gas filter that could be plugged ?

Might there be crap in the carb's bowl ? 

Might the float be stuck in the up position ?

You may want to go on Youtube and look for DonnyBoy's video on starting a small engine. He is very good.


----------



## all3939

So you replaced the spark plug. Are you sure it was replaced with the right one. Also what is this " sparks every other time" mean. Are you sure you don't have a sheared key in the flywheel that's throwing off the timing on ignition. You also may have a fuel delivery problem if the carburetor isn't clean or the float stays hung up on allowing gas in.


----------



## Jack28

all3939 said:


> So you replaced the spark plug. Are you sure it was replaced with the right one. Also what is this " sparks every other time" mean. Are you sure you don't have a sheared key in the flywheel that's throwing off the timing on ignition. You also may have a fuel delivery problem if the carburetor isn't clean or the float stays hung up on allowing gas in.


A snowblower expert at Home Depot told me that this sparkplug was correct for my Toro PowerClear 418 snowblower. Also, the label on the sparkplug's package says the following: Fits: 18" Power Clear 180 & Power Clear 418 Models

By "sparks every other time", I mean the following: I pull the recoil starter the first time, there is no spark. I pull the starter the second time, there is a spark. Third time, there is no spark. Fourth time, there is a spark.

Sheared key in the flywheel? Float stays on top allowing gas in? I don't know what any of that is. How do I check for that?


----------



## Jack28

RIT333 said:


> Are you sure that you have the gas tank's fuel shutoff in the on position ?
> 
> If there a gas filter that could be plugged ?
> 
> Might there be crap in the carb's bowl ?
> 
> Might the float be stuck in the up position ?
> 
> You may want to go on Youtube and look for DonnyBoy's video on starting a small engine. He is very good.




I have a Toro PowerClear 418 snowblower. Does my gas tank even *have* a fuel shutoff switch?



How do I check for a plugged gas filter or a float stuck in the up position?


----------



## RIT333

Jack

Sounds like you may need to watch some small engine YouTube videos. I would suggest those by DonnyBoy. He gets very basic, and explains thing very well.


----------



## Jack28

RIT333 said:


> Jack
> 
> Sounds like you may need to watch some small engine YouTube videos. I would suggest those by DonnyBoy. He gets very basic, and explains thing very well.


Is there a specific DonnyBoy video that I should see? Or should I see all of them?


Also, I just read about a certain carb cleaner called Mechanic in a Bottle. Here is what I read:

My toro 3650 snow blower surges up and down when running. Could

Is this Mechanic in a Bottle thing any good?


----------



## Jack28

*Installed New Sparkplug - Snowblower Still Won't Start - Is Carburetor the Problem?*

Hello. This thread is an update to the following thread:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ower-clear-418-snowblower-will-not-start.html

I started a new thread because I was no longer getting enough responses on the original thread.


So, here is an update on my snowblower situation.

I installed a new sparkplug. I mixed Shell V-Power Premium gasoline with Star Tron fuel stabilizer inside a gas can. I poured the mixture into the snowblower's fuel tank.

The engine oil in the snowblower is relatively new (I changed the oil in December 2016).

I pushed the key into the "on" position. I set the choke to the "on" position. I pushed the primer 3 times. I ran the electric starter, and nothing happened. The snowblower still did not start.

I removed the sparkplug, and used the alligator clips to test the sparkplug. When I repeatedly pulled the recoil starter to test the sparkplug, the sparkplug sparked every other time, and the color was blue. So, it appeared that the sparkplug was good. So, I reinstalled the sparkplug. 

I tried the electric starter again, and nothing happened. However, when I pulled the recoil starter, the engine ran for 1 second, and then stopped running. This was progress. Before I installed the new sparkplug, when I pulled the recoil starter, the engine did not run at all. 

After the engine ran for 1 second, I pulled the recoil starter many more times. The engine repeated its 1-second performance only 1 out 5 times. At all other times, the engine did not run at all. 

I tried both starters with the choke set to "off". Same results. Next, I set the choke back to "on" and pushed the primer 3 more times. I tried both starters again. Same results.



In the original thread, some people suggested that the float could be stuck in the up position or that there could be a sheared key in the flywheel. When I asked how I could check for all of that, there was no response.

Also, someone asked whether there could be crap in the carburetor's bowl. Back in December 2016, I loosened a small screw on my carburetor, and drained the carburetor and the fuel tank of gasoline. My carburetor does have a bowl bolt, but the instructions for my snowblower say that I should not remove that bowl bolt. 

Could there be crap in that bowl? Should I remove the bolt to get rid of the crap? And, if I remove the bolt, will the gasoline be drained as well?



Also, I just read about a certain carb cleaner called Mechanic in a Bottle. Here is what I read:

My toro 3650 snow blower surges up and down when running. Could

Is this Mechanic in a Bottle thing any good?



Thank you for any information.


----------



## RIT333

Your story reminds me about the blond that bought her snowblower in for service, and the mechanic fixed it, and when she picked it up, she asked him how he fixed it. He replied - just crap in the bowl. She asked him how often she had to do that !

Sorry !

Now - what if you pour 1/2 oz. of gas in the cylinder - after removing the spark plug, and replace the spark plug. Will it run longer ? 

If it does, then you have a fuel delivery issue and probably need to clean the carb. 

If not, then you probably have low compression. It may be time for a Predator engine.


----------



## Jack28

RIT333 said:


> Now - what if you pour 1/2 oz. of gas in the cylinder - after removing the spark plug, and replace the spark plug. Will it run longer ?


I still have some gasoline in the gas tank. I can try to pour some gasoline into the cylinder head.

Questions:

1) Should I still turn the choke on?

2) Should I still push the primer?


----------



## Vermont007

I think your engine is now thoroughly flooded. Does your Dipstick now smell like gasoline ?


----------



## JLawrence08648

Use fresh gas, put in the spark plug hole or buy starting fluid and spray it in the carburetor. If it starts and dies, you have carb problems, rebuild or replace. For rebuilding steps read my recent post.


----------



## Jack28

JLawrence08648 said:


> Use fresh gas, put in the spark plug hole


The gas in my gas can is 4 days old. Is that fresh enough? Or should I get brand new gas?

Also, after I pour the gas into the sparkplug hole, do I turn the choke on?

Do I push the primer?


----------



## JLawrence08648

They say gas is good for 90 days, I say max 60 days and prefer 30 days.

Don't push the primer, only use a capfull of gas in the spark plug hole, put the choke on full getting ready to move it to 1/2. If the carb is the problem you will never move it to no choke and it will die.


----------



## Bluejoe

Ok if you don't probably maintain machine meaning always fresh fuel running dry at end of season you will get the no start when snow season comes around. People will attempt to start this type 2cycle machine and flood the cylinder with the fuel. This happens all the time. Spark plugs rarely go bad they get dirty and wet with fuel. In this case you have to remove and clean your plug. I bet it was carbonated up and or wet with fuel. Keep it out and dry out cylinder by now using electric start or pull on cord several times. You might have to do this several times. This will help dry out the cylinder which is flooded with fuel. Make sure you clean and dry the spark plug before reinstall. Now attempt to start. It might take several attempts but it should start. Don't overkill gas pumping the squirt.


----------



## Bluejoe

This occurs with 2 and 4 stroke models.


----------



## Jack28

Bluejoe said:


> Spark plugs rarely go bad they get dirty and wet with fuel.


Bluejoe, in my original thread, I mentioned that I tested the original sparkplug and that the original sparkplug had, indeed, gone bad. The sparkplug was rarely sparking. And, when the sparkplug was sparking, the color was yellow and not blue.


----------



## Jack28

Vermont007 said:


> I think your engine is now thoroughly flooded. Does your Dipstick now smell like gasoline ?





JLawrence08648 said:


> They say gas is good for 90 days, I say max 60 days and prefer 30 days.
> 
> Don't push the primer, only use a capfull of gas in the spark plug hole, put the choke on full getting ready to move it to 1/2. If the carb is the problem you will never move it to no choke and it will die.



OK. Here is an update.

First of all, my dipstick does NOT smell like gasoline. So, I guess that means that my engine is not flooded. 



After smelling the dipstick, I proceeded to follow JLawrence's procedure. 

I removed the sparkplug. 

Using a clean, brand new baster, I sucked some gasoline out of the gas can, and inserted the gasoline into the sparkplug hole.


When I reattached the sparkplug, something odd happened. Previously, when I reattached the sparkplug, I would screw the sparkplug by hand until the sparkplug was finger tight. Then, I would use a socket wrench to give the sparkplug another 1/2 turn. 

However, this time, after I screwed the sparkplug by hand to make the sparkplug finger tight, I used the socket wrench but was able to move the sparkplug very little. 

In fact, when I attempted to remove the socket wrench from the sparkplug, the socket got stuck on the sparkplug and came off the wrench. I had to remove the socket manually.


After I reattached the sparkplug, I set the choke to "on", and attempted to use the recoil starter. I pulled the starter a few times. Nothing happened. The next two times I tried to pull the starter, the starter was STUCK and couldn't move. 

I pulled on the starter, and managed to get the starter unstuck. I pulled the starter again, and the snowblower started working. The snowblower worked for about 4-5 seconds, and there was white smoke coming out of it. Then the snowblower died.


I put more gas into the sparkplug hole, and repeated the above process. Once again, after making the sparkplug finger tight, I was able to move the sparkplug very little with the socket wrench. Once again, the recoil starter got stuck for a little bit. Once again, I got the starter unstuck. The next time I pulled the starter, the snowblower worked for 4-5 seconds, with the white smoke. And then the snowblower died.


So, why was I able to move the sparkplug very little with the socket wrench? Why couldn't I make a 1/2 turn, as I had done before?

Why did the recoil starter get stuck?

And, most important, since putting the gasoline into the sparkplug hole caused the engine to work for a short time, does that mean that there is a problem with my carb? Should I add some kind of carb cleaner? Should I drain the carb bowl?


----------



## skutflut

When you install a new plug and tighten it down the first time, it compresses the metal gasket on the plug. Thats where your 1/2 turn came from. When the plug is removed, and reinstalled, the gasket is already compressed, so you wont see that much rotation when tightening the second and future times.

From your results with gas into the cylinder, it does sound like you have either a problem getting fuel from the tank to the carb, or through the carb to the engine. You don't by any chance have a fuel shutoff valve that might be broken and not opening i don't suppose? It sounds like its time to either rebuild or replace the carburetor.


----------



## Jack28

skutflut said:


> When you install a new plug and tighten it down the first time, it compresses the metal gasket on the plug. Thats where your 1/2 turn came from. When the plug is removed, and reinstalled, the gasket is already compressed, so you wont see that much rotation when tightening the second and future times.
> 
> From your results with gas into the cylinder, it does sound like you have either a problem getting fuel from the tank to the carb, or through the carb to the engine. You don't by any chance have a fuel shutoff valve that might be broken and not opening i don't suppose? It sounds like its time to either rebuild or replace the carburetor.



I have a Toro Power Clear 418. I don't think I have a fuel shutoff valve. My instructions don't mention that kind of valve.


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## sscotsman

Jack,
I went back and read your initial post in your first thread, and the main thing that stood out to me was your use of the turkey baster for sucking gas out of the tank, and:



Jack28 said:


> Could the carburetor be damaged from gasoline being inside the carburetor during 1 or 2 summers? [/img]
> 
> "Damaged", no.
> 
> But "very gunked up and dirty from old gas", yes, absolutely.
> 
> The turkey baster wasnt a great idea!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you were correct that it only got most of the gas out of the tank, but it left plenty of gas behind in the gas line and the carberator..which then could go bad and cause varnish.
> 
> Sounds to me you probably only need a good carb cleaning and perhaps a new fuel line between the gas tank and the carb..I would say you most likely have a fuel delivery and/or carb issue..that fits all the symptoms.
> 
> I have zero experience with single-stage machines, I have never owned one, so I will let others describe the best way to clean the carb on a single-stage. You might be able to spray it with carb cleaner without having to physically remove the carb, but im not sure..
> 
> Scot


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## orangputeh

I agree with Bluejoe.

When you first removed the plug was it dry or wet? wet means flooding. dry means no fuel. if the plug is wet I dry it with a match , haha.

Not familiar with Toro but I don't understand why it does not have a fuel shut off valve somewhere. And the bowl on the carb should be able to be removed so you can see if any gas is in there. Some carbs have another bolt for draining the carb.

Sounds like a fuel delivery problem if you pour gas in hole and it works for 4-5 seconds. Fuel filter, fuel line , jets clogged. 

I would open up that bowl to see if any gas in it. you will need a small collector if there is. if it keeps pouring out after a few seconds then that probably means you have fuel delivery from tank. ( look for that fuel shut off valve first ).

Have a fuel line clamp available so you can spray some carb cleaner up the middle of carb or maybe remove main jet and pilot idle jet if that is possible with this carb and clean them.

I wouldn't mess with the float or needle valve because you'll probably cause more harm than good. do these things first and then update us.


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## Jack28

orangputeh said:


> I agree with Bluejoe.
> 
> And the bowl on the carb should be able to be removed so you can see if any gas is in there. Some carbs have another bolt for draining the carb.
> 
> I would open up that bowl to see if any gas in it. you will need a small collector if there is. if it keeps pouring out after a few seconds then that probably means you have fuel delivery from tank. ( look for that fuel shut off valve first ).


My carb does have a small screw for draining the carb (and, by extension, the gas tank). Back in December 2016, per the instructions, I loosened that screw and drained the carb and gas tank.

But there is a larger *bowl* bolt. If I remove that bolt, will the entire contents of the carb and gas tank be drained out? Or will only a small amount of gas be drained out?

By the way, the instructions say the following, in black, bold letters: Do not remove the carburetor bowl bolt from the bottom of the carburetor.


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## Kiss4aFrog

Jack28 said:


> Hello. This thread is an update to the following thread:
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ower-clear-418-snowblower-will-not-start.html
> 
> I started a new thread because I was no longer getting enough responses on the original thread.



Rather then send folks back to your first post on your problem I consolidated the two threads since we are still working on the "no  start" problem.


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## Kiss4aFrog

_"Do not remove the carburetor bowl bolt from the bottom of the carburetor."

_If you take that bolt out then the whole bowl might come off. Usually it needs some persuasion since it tends to glue itself to the gasket over time. If it's in good condition the bowl will drop off and whatever is in the tank will come pouring out past the needle and seat. The reason it says not to do it is that most people shouldn't take it apart as they have no idea what they are doing and for draining you'd use the other one. 

This might give you a better idea. I love show and tell.


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## orangputeh

Jack28 said:


> My carb does have a small screw for draining the carb (and, by extension, the gas tank). Back in December 2016, per the instructions, I loosened that screw and drained the carb and gas tank.
> 
> But there is a larger *bowl* bolt. If I remove that bolt, will the entire contents of the carb and gas tank be drained out? Or will only a small amount of gas be drained out?
> 
> By the way, the instructions say the following, in black, bold letters: Do not remove the carburetor bowl bolt from the bottom of the carburetor.


don't know anything about Toros but i guess you should follow instructions . Did you remove drain bolt and gas came out and kept coming out?

does your manual show any shut off valve?


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## Bluejoe

Hello Jack where do you live maybe one of our members is close and can drive out to help out.


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## Kiss4aFrog

orangputeh said:


> don't know anything about Toros but i guess you should follow instructions . Did you remove drain bolt and gas came out and kept coming out?
> 
> does your manual show any shut off valve?


In his reply at the top of the page he says he removed the drain bolt and it emptied the tank. If it does have a shut off valve it must be open.


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## orangputeh

Kiss4aFrog said:


> In his reply at the top of the page he says he removed the drain bolt and it emptied the tank. If it does have a shut off valve it must be open.


It seems like a fairly simple fix . I mean it has spark. If it has fuel then it must be the carb , don't you think? 

It sounds like the fuel is not getting to the cylinder. Something is clogged. It's just a process of elimination that cleaning out the carb will probably remedy.

What do you think? I haven't been at this long but the half dozen blowers that I have worked on with this same problem , this was the problem.


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## Kiss4aFrog

If it has spark and you can get it to fire and run then it pretty much has to be a carb problem. I'm not keen on putting gas in the plug hole to check it, I'm more of a starting fluid kind of guy or just dribbling some gas into the carbs throat. Rather not mess with the spark plug and also take a chance I'm going to have gas seeping down into the oil but that's just me.

Depending on cost I'd either clean that carb or purchase a new one and get it up and running. I'd also flush the tank, replace the gas line and if space permits put a filter in line.

That said I haven't gone through any more of this thread then this page so I'm not sure what all has been tried. And with over a hundred replies I'm not going to :roll3yes:


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## Jack28

Kiss4aFrog said:


> If it has spark and you can get it to fire and run then it pretty much has to be a carb problem. I'm not keen on putting gas in the plug hole to check it, I'm more of a starting fluid kind of guy or just dribbling some gas into the carbs throat. Rather not mess with the spark plug and also take a chance I'm going to have gas seeping down into the oil but that's just me.
> 
> Depending on cost I'd either clean that carb or purchase a new one and get it up and running. I'd also flush the tank, replace the gas line and if space permits put a filter in line.
> 
> That said I haven't gone through any more of this thread then this page so I'm not sure what all has been tried. And with over a hundred replies I'm not going to :roll3yes:



I read about a carburetor cleaner called Mechanic in a Bottle. The following is what I read:

My toro 3650 snow blower surges up and down when running. Could

Will Mechanic in a Bottle help?


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## Kiss4aFrog

Don't know, haven't tried it. If you were just having a surging problem trying a good quality fuel system cleaner would be appropriate but since yours won't start you'll likely need to take it fully apart and soak it for a day or two and then rebuild with a kit or replace it.


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## Jack28

Hi, guys. I am the originator of this thread.

It has been about 4 months since my last post in this thread. 

Because we did not have any significant snow in Chicago, and because I had more urgent matters to deal with, I took a break from repairing my snowblower. But now, I am ready to resume the repair.

I'm going to attempt to clean out the float bowl of the carburetor.

I have attached a photograph of the underside of the carburetor.

I want to unscrew the carburetor float-bowl bolt labeled in the photo. I think that, if I unscrew the bolt, then whatever sludge is in the float bowl will simply fall out. Then, I can screw the bolt back on. 

I drained the snowblower of fuel a while ago. So, I don't think I need to clamp down on any fuel line.

Can I just reach under the carburetor and unscrew the bolt?

Or do I first have to remove the snowblower's cover, the starter-button housing, and the carburetor cover, as specified in the first 1:10 of the following youtube video:







Thank you for any assistance.


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## leonz

There are couple of possibilities:

1. I am inclined to think that the fuel tank cap is plugged 
and or you have water in the gas .
Check this first by trying to blow air through the vent hole in the top of the fuel cap.
2. change the spark plug and make sure its gapped properly

If that does not work for you

3.I would siphon out the old gas and see if you can see any debris in the fuel tank and if so remove the tank and clean it out with some alcohol and pea gravel if you have any.
After all this time it should be siphoned out anyway and then you can check to see the fuel outlet in the tank is not plugged as you may have dirt/fuel gum residue that is plugging it as your snow blower may have a screen in the base of the fuel tank. 



With the fuel tank empty I would change the fuel filter before I even removed the carburator bowl and put new fuel in the tank with seafoam and let it sit for a while-overnight and then try start it and run it wide open to push the fresh gas into it.


Short of having a lot of carbon in the exhaust port the only other thing could be a bad spark plug as they will run and then the motor will die when the spark plug gets hot as the spark plug will expand and the electrode connection will be lost.:snowing::icon-cheers:


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## Jack28

leonz said:


> There are couple of possibilities:
> 
> 1. I am inclined to think that the fuel tank cap is plugged
> and or you have water in the gas .
> Check this first by trying to blow air through the vent hole in the top of the fuel cap.
> 2. change the spark plug and make sure its gapped properly
> 
> If that does not work for you
> 
> 3.I would siphon out the old gas and see if you can see any debris in the fuel tank and if so remove the tank and clean it out with some alcohol and pea gravel if you have any.
> After all this time it should be siphoned out anyway and then you can check to see the fuel outlet in the tank is not plugged as you may have dirt/fuel gum residue that is plugging it as your snow blower may have a screen in the base of the fuel tank.
> 
> 
> 
> With the fuel tank empty I would change the fuel filter before I even removed the carburator bowl and put new fuel in the tank with seafoam and let it sit for a while-overnight and then try start it and run it wide open to push the fresh gas into it.
> 
> 
> Short of having a lot of carbon in the exhaust port the only other thing could be a bad spark plug as they will run and then the motor will die when the spark plug gets hot as the spark plug will expand and the electrode connection will be lost.:snowing::icon-cheers:





Hi, Leonz.

As I mentioned in previous posts, there was a problem with the sparkplug, and I did put in a new sparkplug. But the snowblower still did not start. 

I then put fuel into the sparkplug hole. The snowblower worked for 4 - 5 seconds before dying. Some posters then came to the conclusion that the carburetor was the problem.

As for the fuel, I did remove all the fuel, and I don't believe there is any debris in the fuel tank.


But, if I were to remove the carburetor bowl, would I just reach under the carburetor and unscrew the bowl bolt? Or would I have to remove the covers first?


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## leonz

Yes you can remove the bowl if you can reach it with a socket wrench with an extension or a good nut driver just be ready to catch the bowl gasket. if you have no dirt or gumming residue the next thing to do is to change the fuel filter. You can use a larger clear plastic one to replace the disc filter. you may have to cut just a little of the hose off to make it fit but it is a finer filter-better to keep the fuel system clean by the way. 

Just be sure to have a bunch of paper towels to catch any gas or dirt that may drip out of the carburator.

You have to be very care when putting the bowl back on as you have to be sure that the float is not damaged when you put the bowl back up there.
if the fuel bowl gasket stays in place no worries, just be very sure that you do not tighten the bolt to much-they are not very tight to begin with. 


If the fuel bowl is empty the next logical step is replacing the fuel filter with a larger clear plastic filter and new fuel lines.

Short of testing the engine coil first I have no other solution for you. ignition coils go bad over time 
and when they get hot they behave just as you described the symptoms you have.


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## Jack28

leonz said:


> Yes you can remove the bowl if you can reach it with a socket wrench with an extension or a good nut driver just be ready to catch the bowl gasket.
> 
> Just be sure to have a bunch of paper towels to catch any gas or dirt that may drip out of the carburator.
> 
> You have to be very care when putting the bowl back on as you have to be sure that the float is not damaged when you put the bowl back up there.
> 
> if the fuel bowl gasket stays in place no worries, just be very sure that you do not tighten the bolt to much-they are not very tight to begin with.



Is it possible to 1) remove the float-bowl bolt, 2) remove the float bowl, 3) clean the bowl, and 4) put the bowl back into place, WITHOUT removing the snowblower's cover, the starter-button housing, or the carburetor cover?

Will removing the covers and the housing make it easier for me to remove the float-bowl bolt and the float bowl?


Also, when you remove the float bowl, is the bowl gasket supposed to stay on the bowl? Or is the bowl gasket supposed to stay on the carburetor?


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## leonz

I am not completely familiar with your Toro, but the video shows that the float bowl is exposed if the repair video you linked to is for your actual model of snow blower. 

They at least made the fuel filter and float bowl easy to access which is a plus. I wish they had continued to use the 2 cycle engines as they are unbeatable for performance and simplicity.

A 3/8 socket and extension should have no trouble removing the float bowl retaining bolt.

if your concerned you can stand it up against a wall or post and if you can see the float bowl free and clear you should have no trouble removing the float bowl if you stand it up and remove it and you will have less of a chance of the float bowl gasket dropping out. after that you will know whether dirt in the fuel bowl is the issue. You might want to ask the dealer if the tank has an inlet screen as long as you have gone this far too.


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## Jack28

Well, I tried to remove the float-bowl bolt, and things did not go well.

First, I tried using a 7/16" socket. That socket was too big, and I was spinning air.

Next, I tried using a 3/8" socket, and that socket seemed to be too small. The socket would not fit onto the bolt.

So, I took a ruler, and I measured both sockets and the bolt. The 7/16" socket was, indeed, 7/16". The 3/8" socket was, indeed, 3/8". And the bolt was 3/8" as well. 

In theory, the 3/8" socket should fit perfectly onto the 3/8" bolt. Yet, the socket did NOT fit onto the bolt.


I have attached 4 photos. In one photo, you see the 3/8" socket standing, by itself, on the snowblower. In another photo, you see the float-bowl bolt. In the other 2 photos, you see my attempt to make the socket fit onto the bolt. The socket appears too small.


For a few seconds, I tried to remove the bolt with pliers. However, the bolt seemed to be very tight, and I didn't want to damage the bolt. So, I stopped using the pliers. 


So, what do I do next?

I could take the 3/8" socket to Home Depot and test the socket on any 3/8" bolts that Home Depot has. Perhaps some Home Depot employee can tell me why the socket is not working. 

Or, I could remove the snowblower covers, remove the entire carburetor, and install a brand new carburetor.

Any suggestions?


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## RIT333

More than likely the carb bolt is metric, but with a six-point socket, you should have caught enough of the sides to loosen it. How about using an adjustable wrench ? Is should not be on that tight.


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## skutflut

You need a 10 mm socket


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## Jack28

RIT333 said:


> More than likely the carb bolt is metric, but with a six-point socket, you should have caught enough of the sides to loosen it. How about using an adjustable wrench ? Is should not be on that tight.


Metric? What does it mean that the carb bolt is metric?


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## Snowbelt_subie

Jack28 said:


> Metric? What does it mean that the carb bolt is metric?


i know you mean well but have you ever thought about taking your blower to someone that works on small engines? i feel like in the long run it will be better for you and your snowblower.

when you said earlier that you didnt know how to remove the spark plug wire and now you dont know what a metric socket is. i think you might do more harm by taking the carburetor apart yourself.


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## Jack28

Snowbelt_subie said:


> i know you mean well but have you ever thought about taking your blower to someone that works on small engines? i feel like in the long run it will be better for you and your snowblower.
> 
> when you said earlier that you didnt know how to remove the spark plug wire and now you dont know what a metric socket is. i think you might do more harm by taking the carburetor apart yourself.


Well, I actually replaced the sparkplug months ago. So, that problem has been taken care of. 

And I'm not trying to take the entire carburetor apart. I just want to remove the bowl and clean it.


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## Jack28

leonz said:


> if your concerned you can stand it up against a wall or post and if you can see the float bowl free and clear you should have no trouble removing the float bowl


I stood the snowblower up, and I was able to use an adjustable wrench to remove the float-bowl bolt. When I removed the bolt, there was nothing dripping out of the float bowl - no gasoline, no sludge.

Unfortunately, I was NOT able to remove the float bowl itself. 

I have attached 2 photos of the float bowl without the bolt. The black pieces surrounding the float bowl prevented me from removing the float bowl. Because of these black pieces, I had trouble wrapping my hand around the float bowl. And, when I pulled on the float bowl, the float bowl did not move.

So, is there a way to remove the float bowl without removing the snowblower covers?


Also, I have attached 2 photos of the float-bowl bolt. It appears that there is some dirt at the bottom of the bolt. Should I remove the dirt? Will that help start the snowblower?


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## jtclays

This is an epic post by any definition:grin:. YOU NEED TO GET THE FLOAT BOWL OFF. The green you have on the bowl nut (also the main jet) indicates you probably have syrup in the bowl. I could get that bowl off easy even with the plastic shrouding, perhaps you have some physical limitations that won't allow that. If so, just take the shrouding off or ask a friend for help to remove the shrouding. The holes on the bowl nut (aka main jet) need to be cleared with carb cleaner and wire to chase the glop that's likely dried in the holes of the jet. The bowl may be snug to the carb from corrosion and the seal. It's not the most delicate thing in the world. You can tap it pretty hard with a rubber mallet or handle of a screwdriver to break it loose. The rest of the machine looks well cared for as I don't see much rust. Usually ANY metal on any Toro product that's painted black rusts.


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## leonz

Hello Jack28,


I am sorry about this but I think your going to have to remove the plastic shrouds, they apparently divert some of the heated air to the carburator to keep warm while working.

After all that you can tap the bowl with a screw driver handle or rubber mallet and it will pop off there. 

You will probably have to soak the carburator in sea foam to get everything to dissolve, but alcohol would be better though as it will evaporate


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## Jack28

leonz said:


> Hello Jack28,
> 
> 
> I am sorry about this but I think your going to have to remove the plastic shrouds, they apparently divert some of the heated air to the carburator to keep warm while working.
> 
> After all that you can tap the bowl with a screw driver handle or rubber mallet and it will pop off there.
> 
> You will probably have to soak the carburator in sea foam to get everything to dissolve, but alcohol would be better though as it will evaporate



Hello, leonz.

So, you're saying that I should first remove the plastic shrouds, and then tap the bowl with a screwdriver handle? 
Also, what does diverting warm air have to do with anything? The snowblower hasn't been turned on in months.

As for alcohol, would rubbing alcohol be good?


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## Tom Burns

I think Jack 28 pull the leg, here. No one can be this dense. He can read, so let him figure it out himself. There is an incredible amount of verbal, visual, and written knowledge about what this is about. If this isn't a joke, then he will soon be history when he can't figure how to eat.


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## Jack28

Well, I removed the shrouds from the snowblower, and I was able to see the carburetor. 

I noticed that the gasket was separated from the carburetor. I don't know whether that's good or bad.

I have attached 2 photos of the carburetor. In one photo, you can see how the gasket is separated from the carburetor. 


Next, I was able to remove the float bowl. The float bowl had just a small amount of dirt/crap/whatever. (Please see the attached photo.)

Also, I have attached a photo of the float itself. The float looks very clean.

By the way, in a previous post, someone said that I should use a wire and some carb cleaner to clean out the hole(s) in the float-bowl bolt. Well, I can not see any holes in the bolt. 

Furthermore, I should mention that, each time I removed the float-bowl bolt, a few drops of gasoline came out.


Also, I am attaching a photo of the fuel line. In the middle of the fuel line, there is a small, round black object. Is that the fuel filter? In previous posts, someone said that the fuel filter may be clogged and may have to be replaced.

And, I am attaching a photo of the engine.


Now, as I see it, I have a few options:

1) Soak the float bowl and the float-bowl bolt in rubbing alcohol, reattach them to the carburetor, and try to get the snowblower to work.

2) Remove the carburetor, and take the carburetor to a professional repairman. Since I have already done the labor of removing the carburetor, perhaps the repairman can fix the carburetor for a reasonable price.

3) Remove the carburetor, and simply buy a new carburetor.

4) Replace the fuel filter.


So, any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.


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## dhazelton

Wow - this is pretty amazing. 14 pages. Did anyone say 'remove carburator and clean out main jet?' This type of thread is why I got a non running Honda HRX721 mower for six dollars at an auction this summer - an afternoon sorting through it and I was mowing.


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## KennyW in CT

Most times it is cheaper to just replace the carb versus the labor and material to rebuild it. I have a Toro 621 QZE in the shop that won't start. Customer left fuel in it, the ethanol phased out, attracted water, and the internals are now plugged up. It's just amazing how much is required to get to the carb. ALL the shrouds AND the chute need to be removed. Not exactly designed for serviceability.


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## dhazelton

True, but you have to do all that to change out the carb, so I at least open it up and TRY to clean before I buy a replacement.

I have this same Toro carb and just pulled it off the machine to clean the jets as it would not run at high idle. It's an easy carb to access all the holes. Unfortunately the choke plate on mine is frozen in the closed position and despite boiling in lemon juice and soaking in a pan of WD40 for a couple of days it still won't budge. I gave in and ordered one on Amazon that had the highest star rating.

The Powerclear machines don't run the fuel line in any manner that you could add a fuel shutoff either - design fail.


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