# the old switcharoo



## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i worked a half a day and when i got home i looked on cl to see what i could find. there was a guy selling a toro 521 with electric start for $85 so i sent him a text and he said it runs, got his address. this is too good to be true and i was prepaired to see a junky 521 but when i arrived he showed me an older craftsman 524. made me soo glad i rode the wing to go look at it. i passed on the deal so i guess i'll call on the toro ccr 2000 for $100


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## CharlesW (Oct 13, 2010)

Your signature lists 6 snowblowers and you are still looking?
Just out of curiosity.
Are you a snow removal contractor, a snowblower reseller or do you just collect snowblowers?
If you feel it is none of my business, I can handle that as an answer as well.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

charles i actually have eight snowblowers, one is at my sisters and the other at my cousin's. they let me keep my motorcycles in their garage for the winter so i let them keep a toro ccr 2000. to be honest i just like snowblowers and i'm looking for another for my mom's neighbor. he's a great guy and my mom is 83. he shovles snow or pays someone to do it for them and doesn't ask for a dime in return. he works all the overtime he can so i know he's tired and a snowblower would save him time and money and i'll do all the maintanance on it


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

So, had he sold the Toro, or was the ad just to get your attention to come over to look at something else?

By the way, I think that's pretty darn nice of you to be looking for a machine for your mom's neighbor. Not everyone would do that sort of thing.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i never saw a toro. when i pulled up he closed his garage door and had the craftsman sitting in the yard but his cl ad was showing a pic of a 521 toro. i told him i was only interested in a toro or ariens and to call or text me if he had one to sell. he was questioning me about showing up on my goldwing, well i rode it to work that morning and it was faster to stay on the bike and go look at the snowblower than to go home change gear and then take the van. i asked him about the toro and he said it was sold


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Hmmm....sounds a little fishy. Did he have the Craftsman listed in another CL ad?


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i can't say if he did or not. i usually type in toro or arien in the cl search bar to see what comes up, i typed in toro and his 521 came upalong with the other toro's listed and there was no craftsman snowblower in that ad


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## hawkeye13 (Oct 30, 2012)

lots of scammers on CL, many of them know what sells and they play the game. Buyer beware..

I have also met some very nice folks through CL deals.

I don't need another snowblower but caught myself looking to see what else is out there.. thought maybe my daughter and her husband might like one..


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

hawkeye13 said:


> lots of scammers on CL, many of them know what sells and they play the game. Buyer beware..
> 
> I have also met some very nice folks through CL deals.
> 
> I don't need another snowblower but caught myself looking to see what else is out there.. thought maybe my daughter and her husband might like one..


 i look all the time to see what i can find but its getting closer to snowblower season and bargans are getting to be fewer and farther apart though i could use a parts machine for my single stage toro's and wait untill spring to look for a toro 521 or 524, 622, or 624, or ariens of a simular size for a friend of mine


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Misidentification*

I've seen a couple of ads where the machine didn't match the description - Ariens ad that showed a Toro, etc.

If you're looking for a tank of a machine, don't necessarily rule out older Craftsmans. If the model number starts out 536.918xxx or 536.882xxx, those can be very desirable and gotten for a decent price. That's the range where they're the Murray's with the Tecumseh transmissions. About the only non-available part or no alternatives I've found has been the plastic bushings on the end of the Auger shaft on the small frame ones (4 & 5 hp). That's a 3/4" auger shaft and if it has the plastic bushings (vs the metal bushings which are the more desirable ones), I have not found an alternative for that plastic bushing yet (can't find the clamshells for the metal ones so far so can't switch them, though the metal bushings are available). Everything else is either available or a substitute is available for virtually every wear part on the blowers from 4 hp to 10 hp. They're heavily built and with the transmission vs a friction disc, they're close to unstoppable. 

In fact, I just picked another one of those up last week. Looks like a pair of cables, a carb kit and some repainting and it should be ready to go.

Paul


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

you post that model number alot when talking about craftsman snowblowers. i'm going to have to write it down and keep it in my wallet. my one friend that wants a snowblower wants what ever he knows that i have and he knows that me and my craftsman are not on good terms. he was with me when i got it and knows how little use it has had since 2003


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*The good Craftsmans*

I kind of stumbled onto this range of Craftsmans by accident a few years ago, they're high on the desirable list IMO. Cast iron engines, simple design, heavy gauge metal, good sized augers and big impellers for the size and move alot of snow and ice. You can get alot of bang-for-the buck.
I've bought over a dozen so far to rebuild and either keep or sell. Even the worst one was in good overall mechanical condition for having sat outside for years from the way it looked. Almost without exception, issues have been due to neglect, plastic bushings on the auger or damaged cables.
Here's a few of the 536.918xxx








Here's one of the 536.882xxx








Under the paint they are basically the same. Right now I also have a couple of Ariens and I've looked at a Toro. Rough guess the auger housing metal is 50%-100% thicker on the Craftsman's. 

One excellent thing about them is virtually everything bolts together rather than being welded together.








If something is messed up you can unbolt, straighten, repaired or replaced and then put it back together. Also a lot easier to unbolt things to abrasive blast and repaint.

Here's the biggest downfall on them: they quit using the metal bushings like this









and went to plastic bushings in some of the later models. You can still get the metal bushings but not the clamshells that attach them. The drive axel and augers on the bigger ones can be modified to use roller bearings but I have yet to find any that work with the smaller frame machines with the 3/4" auger shaft (but I'm still looking for something).









Here's one of the strengths though, no friction disc drives. Those have an honest-to-goodness gear transmission. 








Same basic transmission used in Gravley's, many garden tractors etc, and they're interchangable also. Totally sealed and close to impossible to break, let alone slip. Keep it maintained and it should last a lifetime.

Things like auger gearcase, gears etc are common items and easily available. If you know your parts, other than those plastic auger bushings on the small frame ones, virtually anything else is still available through one source or another.

I even took a 10 HP 32" 3 stage and built it for myself. It wouldn't fit through the garage door, so I took a 26" auger and housing from a parts machine and swapped that out so I now have a 10HP 26" that's one of my keepers. Even things like the impellers - the smallest frame machines have bigger impellers with more vanes than many of the new ones with engines having 2 or more HP more than they have, and the bigger ones are huge. They throw snow very well.

Most of the ones I've bought I've averages $20-$50 in the purchase, put another $50-$100 in parts and paint and made a profit on selling.
I like them and other than people here, I don't spread that info around alot. By people not realizing what they have, I can pick them up for bottom-feeder prices. Just picked up a 4 hp 20" the other week for $30. It needs 2 cables, I'll blast and paint the auger housing, make up a drive chain for the one the former owner took off and throw in a carb kit and it should be basically done. I should more than double my money on that one when I sell it.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

my craftsman snowblower number is 536887251 and its been used less than 10 times since i got it and has never been used out side of my back yard. i didn't realize that sears just bolts them together so it was never properly set up. my history with snowblowers is mostly toro single stage with what i think was a yard bird ( the name was missing off of this snowblower but it was my first ). the next was a toro s-620 given to me by my sister then a powerlite and my 2450E which i bought new


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Misc*

Sears is like so many companies, they just put their label on something made by someone else. To me it makes sense to go over things you buy, especially if it's not assembled/tuned by a competent technician (which unfortunately most are not). Many times the person with the lowest paygrade and least knowledge seems to be the one that assembles units. Sears isn't the only one that's done this, I have seen the same thing at the Orange Borg, Menards and a number of other places. It's amazing the number of missing bolts, misaligned parts etc that exist on display machines, let alone what goes out to customers.

Misadjusted, misaligned or incorrectly assembled things always seem to get out into the marketplace. That can kill customer loyalty as fast as anything, including poor customer service.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i got my powerlite-E and my 2450E from h&r hardware,a toro dealer that is ( and has been ) out of buisness for some time. what made me buy from them was a snowstorm. the day after the snowstorm i needed a snowblower, i was on a 5lb lifting restriction and couldn't dig my way out so i went looking for a snowblower but as always after a snowstorm snowblowers are all sold out but h&r had a truck in front of the store making a delivery. i ran the red light to get in there. the only choice was a powerlite with or without electric start. i got the electric start because of my restriction and had to wait an extra day cause all they had assembled were pull starts. i had a great dealer experiance at h&r, machine set up properly and a free gas can. they also had a lay-away so i put the 2450E in the lay-away even though they would not be in the store until the following october ( it was january of '99 ). as a kid in the '70's we had a jacobson mower and my neighbor had a toro. those two mowers seem to spend less time in the shop than oll the other mowers, i knew when i grew up that i would have either a jacobson or a toro in my garage


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

*
""Here's one of the strengths though, no friction disc drives."" Those have an honest-to-goodness gear transmission. 
* I'm not real sure I'm following you on the slipping of the disc drives. I had an el cheapo MTD for at least 16 years and used the livin' daylights out of it and didn't replace the disc until I sold it. I think it was 17-18 yrs old when I sold it and I put the new disc on it the year before I sold it. I'm not kidding. That machine moved *tons and tons *of snow. 
Just my humble 2c.
Joe


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

the older snowblowers ( even the el-cheapo's ) seem to be better built than the newer ones


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Boy if that isn't right!! Everything is so cheaply made nowadays and has built in failures. Companies don't want longevity any more. They WANT stuff to fail so we'll buy new stuff. I'm not falling for it. 
Joe


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

micah68kj said:


> Boy if that isn't right!! Everything is so cheaply made nowadays and has built in failures. Companies don't want longevity any more. They WANT stuff to fail so we'll buy new stuff. I'm not falling for it.
> Joe


 a good friend said " they might have quality control but it has nothing to do with the overall quality of the product "


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Friction Discs*



micah68kj said:


> *""Here's one of the strengths though, no friction disc drives."" Those have an honest-to-goodness gear transmission. *
> I'm not real sure I'm following you on the slipping of the disc drives. I had an el cheapo MTD for at least 16 years and used the livin' daylights out of it and didn't replace the disc until I sold it. I think it was 17-18 yrs old when I sold it and I put the new disc on it the year before I sold it. I'm not kidding. That machine moved *tons and tons *of snow.
> Just my humble 2c.
> Joe


I don't care for friction disc's. One machine I bought had a bad shaft between the pulley and the friction plate so it wobbled. I've seen a couple of machines with friction discs that were weathered and cracked, the rubber was hard and didn't drive well. Another had missing rubber while another had the friction wheel got contaminated with oil or grease and slipped.
I'll take a solid transmission with chain drive any day. The only potential area that can slip is the belt otherwise it's rock solid.
To me, I'd rather see the mfg put in good materials rather than cut corners and do it on the cheap.

It's like anything, everyone has a like and dislike. Choose the one you like.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

we as a group know or like me have learned about snowblowers with friction disc or snowblowers with an actual transmission but how many people go buy a snowblower that don't know?? without this forum i would have never known that my craftsman snowblower had a friction disc. at the time i wanted a two stage snowblower and the only toro i could find was an 824 which i thought at the time was too big ( couldn't find one the size of a 524 at a dealer near me ). how it was driven wasn't even a thought. so thanks to SBF my knolage of snowblowers both single and two stage has increased alot


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

thanks to the guys on SBF that were and still are working on two satge machines i learned enough to go check and set up my craftsman snowblower. and thanks to a mild winter i got it done. just before finding SBF i had my niece place a for sale ad on CL. i told her that i would sell the craftsman and buy me a used toro two stage snowblower


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