# I sucked a brick into the chute this morning



## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

kd8tzc said:


> I got to use my new blower this morning with dumping of snow that we got overnight, and I opted to use the electric start. That started me thinking .. when did the first electric starters start to be seen on snowblowers? I know the last snowblower before my new Ariens had the electric start, but my Dad's single stage from 1978 didn't have one.
> 
> I know in automotive history, Cadillac was one of the fist to have an electric start on their cars, and by 1920, most cars had electric start, but what about our beloved Snowblowers? Curious if anyone has any information.
> 
> Merry Christmas all!


Merry Christmas!
I sucked a brick into the chute this morning!
Impeller and augur shaft still spinning, augur doesn't spin.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Shear bolt ....


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

another vote on a shear bolt


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

@Rooskie I know you're trying to demonstrate the sturdy nature of old Iron ...but chucking bricks is a little extreme  

...unless of course it's a "dog-eater" Gravely!


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

wow. lucky you didnt kill it


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Just in case you need a "How To" - - > youtube auger shear pin replacement at DuckDuckGo

BUT if you intend to do more brick throwing maybe an upgrade to a Snocrete Snowblower would be appropriate. Jump to 30 second mark 

.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

oneacer said:


> Shear bolt ....


I so heartily wished it was a shear pin. Unfortunately, all pins are intact. I did a search of this site first and found That Donyboy You tube was a great help. I was also able to verify the augurs are not rusted to the shaft (at least now they aren't). No, I checked a month or two ago to verify all was well, real shear pins, un-rusted augurs. The brick wedged such that it couldn't get into the augur. It fell out with a kick to the augur in the other direction. I'm down for a ring and pinion, I fear. I'm thinking my best bet at this point is to find a whole 'nother bucket? That's only two bolts and a chute control rod. But the blessing of the day was, after the initial let-down, it turned out to be a nice Christmas day and dinner. Now it's snowing again.
May the Joy and Peace of the Birth of our Lord be with you all as it has surprisingly fallen upon me.

I mislead when I said the augur shaft was spinning. I meant the shaft between the impeller and the augur gearbox. The augur shaft spins, as well. There's no gears left inside the gearbox is my fear.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

You stated the impeller and the auger shaft were still spinning, but the augers were not ... well if the auger shaft is spinning and the augers are not, then that is certainly a shear pin issue.

If the impeller shaft only is spinning and the auger shaft is not spinning, then you broke the gear case internals.

Pretty simple really.

Maybe someone put some nice strong bolts in the augers, or the gear case could have been so worn that it was just its time.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Rooskie said:


> There's no gears left inside the gearbox is my fear.


Well, you may just need the brass gear: Ariens Snowblower Auger Gear ST8 ST724 ST824 ST1024 ST1028 ST1032 ST1224 & Other | eBay
or the complete worm & gear set: Ariens Snowblower Worm Gear and Shaft Rebuild Set 52402600 524026 ST724 ST824 640671998741 | eBay


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

tabora said:


> Well, you may just need the brass gear: Ariens Snowblower Auger Gear ST8 ST724 ST824 ST1024 ST1028 ST1032 ST1224 & Other | eBay
> or the complete worm & gear set: Ariens Snowblower Worm Gear and Shaft Rebuild Set 52402600 524026 ST724 ST824 640671998741 | eBay


Let me ask your opinion: I just found this Honda for $150 that I'm told was serviced last year and runs faultlessly: Snow blower
I see the gears for the Ariens are $90 alone. 
Whaddaya ya think?


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

oneacer said:


> You stated the impeller and the auger shaft were still spinning, but the augers were not ... well if the auger shaft is spinning and the augers are not, then that is certainly a shear pin issue.
> 
> If the impeller shaft only is spinning and the auger shaft is not spinning, then you broke the gear case internals.
> 
> ...


No, no bolts. I verified that this fall. Never can go wrong with a Honda?





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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Rooskie said:


> Let me ask your opinion: I just found this Honda for $150 that I'm told was serviced last year and runs faultlessly: Snow blower
> I see the gears for the Ariens are $90 alone.
> Whaddaya ya think?


First, open the gear case and check it out. If it's just the brass gear, that's under $30 delivered.
That Honda is an abused child (and an early hydrostatic). It's closing in on 30 years old. For $150, you probably can't go wrong; the engine is worth that much. The bottom sides of the auger housing look pretty bad.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

I guess I'm just dreading doing that kind of work in this kind of weather.
I'm gonna buy those roll pin drift punches at Harbor Freight.
Thanks for the words on the Honda. I can only imagine the cost of honda transmission parts. 
And I appreciate the words on the motor, but I've limited space.
Thanks for the attention to the bottom of the chute.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

you could always just take the bucket off the machine and drag it inside to rebuild it. once you get the auger assembly out of the bucket you can put the bucket outside and the auger assembly really doesn't take up much space. i rebuilt one in my basement. i took apart 2 to repair the 1.


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

What model snowblower is this? Your avatar shows an Ariens 10000. If this is a 10000 that you have you probably sheared the roll pin inside the gear case. Thats right, there is a roll pin inside the gear case. I had to replace mine a few years ago after sucking in a chunk of ice. Like the other poster said. take off the housing, and bring it in to take apart. Be sure to make note of the rakes, in which way they come off the shaft. They must go back on the same way. You can use a long punch through the filler plug holes to remve the sheared pin.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Landngroove said:


> What model snowblower is this? Your avatar shows an Ariens 10000. If this is a 10000 that you have you probably sheared the roll pin inside the gear case. That's right, there is a roll pin inside the gear case. I had to replace mine a few years ago after sucking in a chunk of ice. Like the other poster said. take off the housing, and bring it in to take apart. Be sure to make note of the rakes, in which way they come off the shaft. They must go back on the same way. You can use a long punch through the filler plug holes to remve the sheared pin.


Yes, that is the machine in question on my avatar. I tend to believe, before turning the first wrench, your diagnosis is probably correct: When it let go, there was only one loud snap, instead of the tortured grinding of shearing brass. In the first seconds after that, I thought I had caught an uneven lip on the edge of a sidewalk. Then the augur died. The roll pin would make sense. Also, I don't hear further carnage as I roll the augur around. But I have learned my lesson to take it apart, and put eyeballs on it before buying parts.
Thanks for the other words of encouragement to all. The wind chill is in the teens right now, 40's predicted Sunday.


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

Rooskie said:


> Yes, that is the machine in question on my avatar. I tend to believe, before turning the first wrench, your diagnosis is probably correct: When it let go, there was only one loud snap, instead of the tortured grinding of shearing brass. In the first seconds after that, I thought I had caught an uneven lip on the edge of a sidewalk. Then the augur died. The roll pin would make sense. Also, I don't hear further carnage as I roll the augur around. But I have learned my lesson to take it apart, and put eyeballs on it before buying parts.
> Thanks for the other words of encouragement to all. The wind chill is in the teens right now, 40's predicted Sunday.


When you take the side cover off, notice that there are no brass gears in the 10,000. It is all steel.


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

Landngroove said:


> When you take the side cover off, notice that there are no brass gears in the 10,000. It is all steel.


The roll pin is 5/16" X 1, 1/2". I bought one at a hardware store, 5/16" x 2" and cut it to 1, 1/2".


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Landngroove said:


> The roll pin is 5/16" X 1, 1/2". I bought one at a hardware store, 5/16" x 2" and cut it to 1, 1/2".


You read my mind. Many Thanks.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Landngroove said:


> Your avatar shows an Ariens 10000.





Rooskie said:


> Yes, that is the machine in question on my avatar.


I thought you had stated elsewhere that you had an ST724?


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Landngroove said:


> When you take the side cover off, notice that there are no brass gears in the 10,000. It is all steel.





tabora said:


> I thought you had stated elsewhere that you had an ST724?


Nope. I just posted all my vitals in my profile so I never have to worry about it.
MODEL 910962
S/N 000469 
7HP Tecumseh

Here's some fresh pics of my situation:






























So the splined shaft with impeller and rakes just pulls straight out after I get the bearings unbolted on the sides of the chute?
It can't be that easy.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Landngroove said:


> What model snowblower is this? Your avatar shows an Ariens 10000. If this is a 10000 that you have you probably sheared the roll pin inside the gear case. Thats right, there is a roll pin inside the gear case. I had to replace mine a few years ago after sucking in a chunk of ice. Like the other poster said. take off the housing, and bring it in to take apart. Be sure to make note of the rakes, in which way they come off the shaft. They must go back on the same way. You can use a long punch through the filler plug holes to remve the sheared pin.


The sno-throw part is 910995, S/N 000469. I always assumed these were always 1 unit.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Rooskie said:


> MODEL 910962
> S/N 000469
> 7HP Tecumseh





Rooskie said:


> The sno-throw part is 910995, S/N 000469.


So now very confused... I guess the first number is the tractor and the second one is the blower? So is that picture showing your Jaw Clutch *Part Number:*01017600 is damaged?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

That is a 10000 series .... wow, I never had an issue with any of the Ariens Auger Gear Box I ever encountered on any machine with that cast Gear Box.. They are built rock solid, but you do have to pull the plug once in awhile and check the fluid level.

You will have to remove the Jaw Clutch to pull the impeller shaft unit out.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Those 10000 series are my favorite machine, I have a 10M4 and a 10M60D. Both repowered, one with a B&S Snow and the other with a Predator 212cc. Believe it or not, the Predator has more power. Both run great.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

The link you sent said it was nearly $100 for those two gears


tabora said:


> So now very confused... I guess the first number is the tractor and the second one is the blower? So is that picture showing your Jaw Clutch *Part Number:*01017600 is damaged?


Sorry to cause confusion.


tabora said:


> So now very confused... I guess the first number is the tractor and the second one is the blower? So is that picture showing your Jaw Clutch *Part Number:*01017600 is damaged?


You are correct. I'm sorry for the confusion. Yes, the part mentioning the Tecumseh motor is the tractor. Yes, the other numbers are for the snowblower itself. 
If you think that's damaged, you should have seen the one I replaced it with. Jackmel sold it to me in Mass.
I hope that straightens things out.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

oneacer said:


> That is a 10000 series .... wow, I never had an issue with any of the Ariens Auger Gear Box I ever encountered on any machine with that cast Gear Box.. They are built rock solid, but you do have to pull the plug once in awhile and check the fluid level.
> 
> You will have to remove the Jaw Clutch to pull the impeller shaft unit out.


I will, huh? Darn, it looked too easy to be true.
Do you know of any good videos/tutorials here or there for this bucket so I don't have to pester you alot? The jaw comes off, side bearings in bucket removed, then the impeller shaft will pull out with impeller and all?
The gearbox case is undamaged. I've drained the grease this evening and examined it. There was plenty of lube in it. It looked and smelled fine. No 'milk' in it. There is no sign of brass shavings in the bottom.
Many Thanks!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm baffled .... what is it that is broke then, and what are you trying to do here?


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

oneacer said:


> That is a 10000 series .... wow, I never had an issue with any of the Ariens Auger Gear Box I ever encountered on any machine with that cast Gear Box.. They are built rock solid, but you do have to pull the plug once in awhile and check the fluid level.
> 
> You will have to remove the Jaw Clutch to pull the impeller shaft unit out.





Rooskie said:


> So the splined shaft with impeller and rakes just pulls straight out after I get the bearings unbolted on the sides of the chute?
> It can't be that easy.


Yes, it is that easy!


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

Rooskie said:


> I will, huh? Darn, it looked too easy to be true.
> Do you know of any good videos/tutorials here or there for this bucket so I don't have to pester you alot? The jaw comes off, side bearings in bucket removed, then the impeller shaft will pull out with impeller and all?
> The gearbox case is undamaged. I've drained the grease this evening and examined it. There was plenty of lube in it. It looked and smelled fine. No 'milk' in it. There is no sign of brass shavings in the bottom.


You wont see any brass shavings, because there is no brass used in that gearbox. You have to take the side cover plate off, and you will see the broken roll pin. The amount of lube has nothing to do with this. It broke because of the sudden stop.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Here are some photos from when I dismantled my 10000 series, maybe they will help?


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

Section 9 and 10A, 10B, and 10C


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Yes, these will help very much! Thank You! Looks real familiar. I'm starting soon.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Give the man a 


Landngroove said:


> Section 9 and 10A, 10B, and 10C


Give Landngroove the charute, it was the roll pin! on the down side, it sheared the ends of the roll pin off, but the rest still remains inside the shaft. stay Tuned.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Rooskie said:


> I'm doing my best to get that broken pin out without removing the other rake.
> I've been going back and forth with myself, but concluded a real set of roll pin punches is in order, or I can mic a nail to 0.3125".
> It turns out a shear bolt did fail flush with the bolt head.
> Is there a general consensus as to where to pick up reliable shear bolts, or conversely, where to stay away from?


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

I've not had too bad of luck with what i can find at ACE, sometimes you can even find them at Home Depot (Ariens Brand Name) sometimes I've been able to order Ariens brand for cheap off of Amazon.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Rooskie said:


> Is there a general consensus as to where to pick up reliable shear bolts, or conversely, *where to stay away from?*


anyplace with loose bricks



_EDIT: +1 on HD having Ariens brand shear bolts._


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

classiccat said:


> anyplace with loose bricks
> 
> 
> 
> _EDIT: +1 on HD having Ariens brand shear bolts._


Ba-dump-dump, ching!


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## kd8tzc (Dec 6, 2020)

So what is the purpose of a sheer pin if something like this could happen due to a roll pin? I'm missing something I guess. Sorry.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Most roll pins are hardened steel .....that does not mean that they are impervious to breakage or shearing ... I have had a number of shear pins break in my time, but overall, they are a good way to hold things on a shaft.


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## kd8tzc (Dec 6, 2020)

oneacer said:


> Most roll pins are hardened steel .....that does not mean that they are impervious to breakage or shearing ... I have had a number of shear pins break in my time, but overall, they are a good way to hold things on a shaft.


Understood, but what good are they if something like this tears up a blower. It sounds to me that the roll pin prevent the shear pin from doing it's job somehow. I was not even aware there were shear pins on the auger. Maybe I'm not getting where the roll pin was located. It sounds like it was in the gearbox in the auger assembly, but why wouldn't the shear pins break if it hits something massive like the brick? Sorry for asking dumb questions, but trying to better understand this.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

No, those are good questions .... The first line of defense would normally be the proper shear pin .... However, if it moved through the augers even slightly, and went into the impeller, that extreme shock could certainly have taken out a roll pin in the gear case. Or it could be just the way the machine reacted to it. ????

There is no guarantee of how things are going to play out in catastrophic endeavors. One can only hope the safeguards in place do there job, but not always the case. That is one reason you never put a bolt where a shear pin should go .


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

kd8tzc said:


> So what is the purpose of a sheer pin if something like this could happen due to a roll pin? I'm missing something I guess. Sorry.


I wondered the same. But we don't know how many shear pins broke previously in the span of the machine's life before it broke the roll pin inside as has happened to me. I also found the shear bolt on that rake broken.
Even then, it is much better than having to pull the pinion shaft bearing! So I'm not carping, it could be much worse. I have a set of roll pin punches and more shear bolts being delivered Thursday.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

kd8tzc said:


> but why wouldn't the shear pins break if it hits something massive like the brick?





Rooskie said:


> But we don't know how many shear pins broke previously in the span of the machine's life before it broke the roll pin inside as has happened to me.


And maybe the bolts in the shear bolt positions were not the real Ariens shear bolts?


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## kd8tzc (Dec 6, 2020)

Okay, so if the brick had not snuck past the auger and tried to do the hula with the impeller, the shear bolts should have done their job then. Either that or the shear bolts were sleeping on the job.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

kd8tzc said:


> Okay, so if the brick had not snuck past the auger and tried to do the hula with the impeller, the shear bolts should have done their job then. Either that or the shear bolts were sleeping on the job.


Mine have real shear bolts in them as long as it has been in my possession. They were there when I bought it, so that's 5+ years. My point was in my last post was that the pin holding the gear inside the gearbox had to break every shear bolt for the nearly half-century it's been pushing snow. Let's say it only broke a pin every other year. That means that pin in the gearbox had to be stronger than the force it took to break a shear bolt 25 times, right? So the pin in the box failed this time, just my luck.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

tabora said:


> And maybe the bolts in the shear bolt positions were not the real Ariens shear bolts?


'If maybe's and butts were fruit and nuts, oh, what a picnic there'd be!'
Maybe. I dunno.


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## Keiz (Dec 14, 2020)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Just in case you need a "How To" - - > youtube auger shear pin replacement at DuckDuckGo
> 
> BUT if you intend to do more brick throwing maybe an upgrade to a Snocrete Snowblower would be appropriate. Jump to 30 second mark
> 
> .


I was wondering where my car went!


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Broken Roll Pin out, YAY!😁 5/16 roll punch now stuck tight!🤬 Suggestions appreciated.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Looks like you used an oversized regular punch, not a roll pin punch for that size of roll pin. That gear and shaft are meant to be the exact size, as the roll pin in essence gets tapped through both the gear and shaft, thus compressing the roll pin and turning both as one solid piece. If there is any play in either, that lash play will shear that roll pin again.

Hopefully you did not damage the gear or the shaft hole circumference.

In a lubed area such as that, that roll pin should have tapped right out of there.

All you can do now is lock on to that drift punch, and keep trying to rock and twist it out ... may need a pipe wrench with a pipe over the handle of the wrench.

Also, be careful you don't damage the case plug hole threads you are going through.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Happy New Year!
Y'know, I was thinking you might come by and say that.....I was going to make sure you could read the '5/16' embossed on the handle in the picture. But I said, nah......
I just got them from Home Depot, model 61135, yesterday. 
I'll give the pipe wrench a shot. If all else fails, I might just cut the punch flush with the gear and viola! Pin replaced.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Maybe a little gentile heat applied to the shaft ??


.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

LOL ... Yeah, that might work ...  for awhile anyways .....

A roll pin punch is just that, meant to drive out roll pins specifically, with a little tit on the tip ... should never get jammed in its corresponding size pin hole.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Maybe a little gentile heat applied to the shaft ??
> 
> 
> .





Kiss4aFrog said:


> Maybe a little gentile heat applied to the shaft ??
> Maybe.
> I'm trying to think how I could hook a slide hammer to the pin.
> 
> ...


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Wow .... Very interesting indeed ....


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

oneacer said:


> Shear bolt ....


Well, I got the augur back from the machinist. Roll pin punch came out in one piece, to boot!
He welded a bolt that fit his slide hammer to the top of the pin and slide-hammered it out.
It was cheaper than buying another augur assembly, unless I found one lying along the road for free.....
Oh, the machinist mic'd the punch diameter after he got it out. After the first 1/2 inch in length, the punch went oversize.
I almost got another one of that set stuck when I used it to remove the end roll pin, but I was watching, this time. Yep, halfway thru the 1 inch augur shaft, it fetched up tight. I was able to get it out.
GRIP 9pc. roll punch kit 61135. Bought at Home Depot - DO NOT USE!


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

home depot= made in china marked inches when really metric ???


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Very possible ....


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

This is why name brand tools - like Snap-on,General, etc. perform so much better. Their punches are ground true - for more than only the first half inch. They also cost a bit more, but it doesn't take too many failures to make up the difference. I'm not saying that there are no good cheap tools out there, rather, you have to be careful when you buy them. Harbor Fright, Hopot, Lowe's tools simply are not the best ones out there, and you have to be discriminating when you buy them. I'd be surprised if those three places even have roll pin punches. There are discount machinist tool vendors around - but again, the cheap stuff is not the equal of say Starrett, Brown & Sharpe, or Mitutoyo.

Most of us do not need a complete set of anything. Have you noticed how much use some of your combi box/open end wrenches get? I use my sockets and wrenches for a lot of different tasks, but some look brand new - and I'm sure I never used them. For something like this, all you needed was one roll pin punch. When you need another size, buy it then.


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