# Italian Tecumseh OHC engine's. What's their story?



## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

So I was browsing ebay looking at Tecumseh engines for sale and I came across this one. It is an Italian made Tecumseh 7.0hp 212cc but very interesting is the fact it has an OHC (Overhead Cam). Which to me is almost unheard of on a Tecumseh, I have seen plenty of overhead valve Tecumseh's, but an Overhead cam, that's new to me and seems rare.
Were these made for racing, Italy is known well for racing.
I have come across another one on ebay in the past and its really got me scratching my head...
These appear to be higher quality Tecumseh engines than the typical US made ones we are all used to seeing. It even has a different style muffler marketed as quieter than most others.
Does anyone have any idea what the story is with these engine's? What they were typically used on, why they are Italian made and why they seem to have some better technology than most of the USA made Tecumseh's like an OHC and a quieter muffler. Clearly a much different design than most Tecumseh engines and I have seen a lot of engine's.
Can anyone shed light on these interesting Italian made Tecumseh engine's?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecumseh-E...312447&hash=item3afed8cbb6:g:WRQAAOSwMNxXbI8U


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Pictures? I'd love to see this. Is there a timing belt? Is it possibly just a two shaft engine?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Can't tell from the photos if it's gear, belt or chain.

My question is why they are willing to pay $350 for a used 7hp ??


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Can't tell from the photos if it's gear, belt or chain.
> 
> My question is why they are willing to pay $350 for a used 7hp ??


Because they know it's worth more. This is the ONLY logical explanation. 

To who? For what? Who knows. But there can't be any other reason.

My only other guess, if I had a gun to my head, would be they want a complete restoration for some piece of equipment. Wait till you see what incandescent bulbs go for 20 years from now, for those who want to do a factory correct restoration of a car.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> My question is why they are willing to pay $350 for a used 7hp ??


We dont yet know if anyone is willing to pay $350 or not.  thats the asking price, not the selling price..this one isnt used, its NOS.

I have never heard of the Tecumseh Enduro engine..some quick googling says they were used on lawn and garden tractors..

Scot


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## Dannoman (Jan 16, 2018)

All I want for Xmas is a Lamborghini Diablo turbo-powered, fuel injected snowblower.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

So true Scot, I didn't pay attention and thought bidding was at the $350 mark. Now that I'm paying attention I see it's buy it now or offer.

I did notice that the crank runs on some pretty hefty ball bearings so maybe longevity is what it's about.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I looked up parts for Tecumseh Enduro. It seems they are overhead valves, with push rods. Not over head cams.

Tecumseh Enduro For Sale - Parts For Tractors


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

It says overhead cam right on the Enduro engine sticker and also lists overhead cam as a feature.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> It says overhead cam right on the Enduro engine sticker and also lists overhead cam as a feature.


Yeah, it does, I think it's a mis-print. Every OHV engine head picture I have been able to find, looks just like that one there, with the square cast piece for the valves, and a valve cover.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

Tecumseh was [still is] a global company that produced products for markets around the world. Odds are that line of engines was European spec and only made it to the US as service parts for some sort of specialized equipment. I doubt it's Italian origin has much to do with racing.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

xl-c x-extra life, cast iron bore, ball bearing crank both sides, c= commercial 

yet even the ohv shop manual fails to talk about the OHC nor can i find a ohc manual listed using google


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

The Tecumseh Europa service manual states that it is for servicing the "Italian" made Tecumseh motors. The tapered shaft indicates it was made for generator use and appears to be as suggested, an OHV engine, not OHC. JMO


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

spent 4 hours googling for something about this motor NADHA! yet looking at the seelers photo's i do see spots on the head casting that could hold a overhead cam, with possibly that plastic thing by the spark plug being a screw in cover, the tapered crank dose say generator 
how is the cam driven is a great ??


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

jsup said:


> I looked up parts for Tecumseh Enduro. It seems they are overhead valves, with push rods. Not over head cams.
> 
> Tecumseh Enduro For Sale - Parts For Tractors


In the United States Enduro and Formula were used most commonly on vertical lawn Tractor engine's. They were also marketed XL/C =Extended life/Commercial. My 1992 Sears lawn Tractor has a formula XL/C OHV engine. Those are common.
This is not common. This is a horizontal engine first, which in the US a Tecumseh engine built horizontally was never marketed as Enduro, never saw a horizontal enduro, seen plenty of vertical enduro's. (A few of the last OHV American built racing engines were formula and built specifically for racing, but I have never seen an American made enduro horizontal US made engine and if their are they are rare vs the line of Enduro verticals that were built for lawn tractors.
Also this is an Overhead cam, not an overhead valve, which I have never seen and also has some stainless steel tube running up to its head, OHV Tecumeh's don't have that. Big difference between OHV and OHC. OHC is typically the best small engine you can buy and I've never seen a Tecumeh OHC till now. OHV yes plenty.
Lastly it was made in Italy, has some completely different air filter system that I have never encountered on a Tecumseh and a totally different muffler system, that appears to be made much quieter than the typical ones, Ive never seen that one before (Some of these parts appear to be Italian only, because their are things on it I have never seen on any American Tecumseh ever. This is not a typical vertical Enduro/formula OHV. This is an Enduro OHC with many different interesting design features I have never seen on any other typical horizontal Tecumseh built here in the U.S.
Also as far as the price, $350. It will go eventually, when someone who knows what it is for and has the need for it comes across it, it will sell no doubt about it. I have sold a few Tecumseh engines on ebay. One that was just a regular 7hp Tecumseh for more than that one, so I have no doubt an OHC Tecumseh with ball bearings used and all of this other fancy stuff, will sell for that price easily when the time comes. Their is a fellow selling NOS US Tecumseh Snowking engines 10 and 12 hp respectively.
The 10hp goes for $385 plus 45 shipping and the 12 hp is $425 and 45 shipping and he has sold quite a few of them.
This here is something totally different.
I was wondering if anyone had an actual knowledge on these engine's. What they were built for, the whole story behind them being made in Italy and why so much more rugged than the typical Tecumseh and its interesting design features.
My best hypothesis here since I know they made horizontal formula engines in the US specifically for go-karts and mini bikes, is that this is a racing engine made under the Enduro XL/C line in Italy. But at the moment still just a guess until someone maybe who worked for Tecumseh 10 years ago comes forward with actual knowledge of these things. Subaru made an OHC engine for a generator. The shaft on this engine does have a bit of a taper, maybe it was made for a generator, or to power some piece of machinery of that nature.
Again I have seen a lot of engine's, but an Italian Tecumseh that is Horizontal using the enduro badge with an OHC and a few other interesting features, this one is new to me.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

87 powershift said:


> spent 4 hours googling for something about this motor NADHA! yet looking at the seelers photo's i do see spots on the head casting that could hold a overhead cam, with possibly that plastic thing by the spark plug being a screw in cover, the tapered crank dose say generator
> how is the cam driven is a great ??


My best guess would be a chain that comes down from inside the block and runs up thru the head to the top and is connected to the cam, that's how Subaru made their OHC engine, if not a chain, a belt or something along that line but using that same route would be my best guess.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

deezlfan said:


> Tecumseh was [still is] a global company that produced products for markets around the world. Odds are that line of engines was European spec and only made it to the US as service parts for some sort of specialized equipment. I doubt it's Italian origin has much to do with racing.


Tecumseh company liquidated its engine division in December 2008 and went back to making AC components in the United States with its headquarters based here. Its what they did before they entered the engine market in the 50's and its what they went back to after they left the engine market. Sometime after that Tecumseh sold the right to its name as an engine, Tecumeh/Lausen to LCT (Liquid combustion Technology). A company with its headquarters based in the Carolina's but operates globally. Tecumseh the company that liquidated in 2008 has nothing to do with LCT today. Tecumseh is a US based ac components making company. This engine although different still has some parts that are clearly actual Tecumseh pre 2008. The old style recoil that is no longer produced, the decals that have the old Tecumseh labels, stuff LCT does not replicate. But my question about this engine most likely from the early 2000's is its story, what it was made for, what the line was about, why Italy, what the deal with the OHC and ball bearings are, the stuff that has not been answered yet, not the info out their that can be researched.
Either racing or a generator, my best guess. In the US enduro was followed by Formula. Horizontal Formula engines built in the US were primarily for racing, mini bikes and Go-Karts. Enduro was never made as a horizontal in the US. Enduro in the US was a vertical line primarily for lawn tractors as well as the followed formula verticals that were also used on lawn tractors. So the fact its a horizontal enduro which was the line before formula and formula horizontals were racing engines in the US it points that way.
Either that or generator, it has a tapered shaft and Subaru made an OHC that powered generators.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

that tapered shaft tells me machine or a generator, agree to thinking it is chain driven as the castings don't show any signs of belt , then off thread my troy built power washer has a honda that has a double wet belt system. heaven help if that breaks as they are interference motors not much will be left after the valves meet the piston,


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

jsup said:


> Yeah, it does, I think it's a mis-print. Every OHV engine head picture I have been able to find, looks just like that one there, with the square cast piece for the valves, and a valve cover.


No that's no misprint, not twice. Your looking up the American enduro line, this is a horizontal Italian enduro. Also American ohv Tecumseh's have OHV stamped into the valve cover, this one doesn't and its got that stainless steel pipe running to it and other differences than a typical OHV head your showing.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

The discussion on this has been great so far. A lot of good thoughts on it. Hopefully someone who either worked for Tecumseh or used one of these engines comes forward and shines more light on it. I may shoot the seller a message and ask him what he knows about it for sure and report back what he tells me. Its definitely interesting and different, that's for sure.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Anyone want to chip and buy this thing, send it to fearless, and he can do an autopsy? I'm in for $50. I'm really interested in how it's put together. $50 interested.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

i'm closer to you than him 20 in


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

87 powershift said:


> i'm closer to you than him 20 in


Hey, I'd come up to see it come apart, I think it'd be interesting. Some cold beer and wrenches make a day of it. 

I think it would be cool to post pictures.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

Fearless, 

I don't know what part of my comment you are trying to rebut with your statements.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

What's the main advantage of OHC in small engines? My understanding, for car engines, was that OHC engines could spin at higher RPMs before floating the valves, when compared with pushrod (OHV) engines. There's less reciprocating mass that has to be spring-returned, since you eliminate the pushrod. 

That makes sense for something with a 7000 RPM redline, but if you're running at 3600, does it really matter? My little 99cc Honda inverter generator is OHC, and it does actually spin up to 5000 RPM if the load gets high enough. So there I can see some possible benefit. The higher RPM helps get more power out of a small-displacement, lightweight engine, assuming it can maintain a reasonable torque curve. 

But for a typical generator (3600RPM for 60Hz US use, 3000 for 50Hz), or for a blower/mower that runs right around 3600, is there an advantage to OHC? 

PS- I don't know if my engine (a GX100) is an interference design. But I sure hope not, if the belt ever breaks.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> What's the main advantage of OHC in small engines? My understanding, for car engines, was that OHC engines could spin at higher RPMs before floating the valves, when compared with pushrod (OHV) engines. There's less reciprocating mass that has to be spring-returned, since you eliminate the pushrod.
> 
> That makes sense for something with a 7000 RPM redline, but if you're running at 3600, does it really matter? My little 99cc Honda inverter generator is OHC, and it does actually spin up to 5000 RPM if the load gets high enough. So there I can see some possible benefit. The higher RPM helps get more power out of a small-displacement, lightweight engine, assuming it can maintain a reasonable torque curve.
> 
> ...


Excellent points. 

I am assuming these little engines run solid lifters. I don't know what advantage an OHC would provide. Interesting thoughts.


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## ourkid2000 (Feb 27, 2017)

Incorrect post (edited)


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> What's the main advantage of OHC in small engines? My understanding, for car engines, was that OHC engines could spin at higher RPMs before floating the valves, when compared with pushrod (OHV) engines. There's less reciprocating mass that has to be spring-returned, since you eliminate the pushrod.
> 
> That makes sense for something with a 7000 RPM redline, but if you're running at 3600, does it really matter? My little 99cc Honda inverter generator is OHC, and it does actually spin up to 5000 RPM if the load gets high enough. So there I can see some possible benefit. The higher RPM helps get more power out of a small-displacement, lightweight engine, assuming it can maintain a reasonable torque curve.
> 
> ...


that motor is interference valves

only motors i know of with hydro lifters are kohler CV line and use a everyday chevy small block lifter .every thing else i've worked on had solids due to the small size of the lifter shaft


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

jsup said:


> I am assuming these little engines run solid lifters. I don't know what advantage an OHC would provide. Interesting thoughts.


Do you mean solid rocker arms? If its built anything like the ohc motors i have worked on there is no push rod or lifters. One bonus ie less moving parts, other ones are less vibration from the motor, reduced fuel usage, lower emissions, and bragging rights if it works good. This is the goal anyway and of course this all has to be designed engineered and implemented right for it to work. Just my thoughts on it anyway.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

351beno said:


> Do you mean solid rocker arms? If its built anything like the ohc motors i have worked on there is no push rod or lifters. One bonus ie less moving parts, other ones are less vibration from the motor, reduced fuel usage, lower emissions, and bragging rights if it works good. This is the goal anyway and of course this all has to be designed engineered and implemented right for it to work. Just my thoughts on it anyway.


I know the difference between push rods and OHC engines. My comment was about RPM range. That OHC engines wind up higher than pushrod engines. I mentioned solid lifters in these engines, because solid lifters wind up higher than either hydraulic or hydraulic rollers. 

What I meant was that a solid lifter is more than capable of exceeding the operating RPM of these engines. Since most of these small engines have solid lifters, RPM isn't really an issue.


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

jsup said:


> I know the difference between push rods and OHC engines. My comment was about RPM range. That OHC engines wind up higher than pushrod engines. I mentioned solid lifters in these engines, because solid lifters wind up higher than either hydraulic or hydraulic rollers.
> 
> What I meant was that a solid lifter is more than capable of exceeding the operating RPM of these engines. Since most of these small engines have solid lifters, RPM isn't really an issue.


 Ok I read your post wrong than. Its not about max rpms as much as how fast (quick) the engine can rev up. Take a generator if it has an idle control and you can get an ohc to respond faster than a ohv and with all the other benefits I mention that's a win. Hydro lifter are not used in this small an engine because of lack the of an oil pump. I would love a ohv hydro lift snowblower less vibs and no valve adjustments to deal with.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

351beno said:


> Ok I read your post wrong than. Its not about max rpms as much as how fast (quick) the engine can rev up. Take a generator if it has an idle control and you can get an ohc to respond faster than a ohv and with all the other benefits I mention that's a win. Hydro lifter are not used in this small an engine because of lack the of an oil pump. I would love a ohv hydro lift snowblower less vibs and no valve adjustments to deal with.


That was a huge debate on another forum. Pushrod vs. OHC as it relates to speed. Lots of strong opinions on both sides. IMO, the pushrod guys had a stronger position.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> What's the main advantage of OHC in small engines? My understanding, for car engines, was that OHC engines could spin at higher RPMs before floating the valves, when compared with pushrod (OHV) engines. There's less reciprocating mass that has to be spring-returned, since you eliminate the pushrod.
> 
> That makes sense for something with a 7000 RPM redline, but if you're running at 3600, does it really matter? My little 99cc Honda inverter generator is OHC, and it does actually spin up to 5000 RPM if the load gets high enough. So there I can see some possible benefit. The higher RPM helps get more power out of a small-displacement, lightweight engine, assuming it can maintain a reasonable torque curve.
> 
> ...


If it was built to race and does run up at the much higher rpm's it would be a big advantage and it very could have been built to go into a clutch, but we just really do not know. The Subaru engine I mentioned that also had an OHC that was originally on a generator was taken off by a few fellows on you tube, they have a pretty large channel, can't think of their handle at the moment, that do some pretty sweet custom builds and that OHc engine they used performed very nicely on the go kart they put it on. Most typical generators today have their own much larger 5 gallon fuel tanks apart from the engine. Old generators built 30 years ago had the small fuel tanks built on. With this having a small fuel tank that is a part of the engine, it really still is undetermined what it was for. Whatever it was, it was built or heavy duty service with the ball bearings and the OHC, the larger air filter which means it most likely has a larger air intake as well.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

I spoke with the seller. He had little information to share other than he got the engine directly from a Tecumseh engineer and has no paperwork, he is hurting to sell it bad, but had he known the story on it, it would be gone already guaranteed. He said he had two, this one and another that was missing its fuel tank.
My guess coming from a Tecumseh engineer, is that these were limited production.
Also it was made in Italy yet it has the tag in English so it may have been built their but intended to be sold and used here in the United States.
Most generators today, have their own larger fuel tank, this has its own small fuel tank built on.
So whatever it was built for it was built for heavy duty usage and to work hard.
However at this time exactly what it was built for is still unknown and the story behind it is mostly unknown, but their are clues right on it to help form a good theory. 
Is their anyone a member on this forum that used to work for Tecumseh prior to its closure in 2008 or a friend of someone who can get them on here to shed some light on this thing?
I think for now, this thread is going to sit on the shelf and collect dust awhile until someone who actually knew, comes across it.
With that said, it would be nice to get my hands on this engine and open it up and see how they engineered this thing.
My best guess at the moment would be just like the Subaru OHC, chain coming up from below and hooks directly to the cam up above. Anyway it was interesting. The rare and unique stuff always catches my eye and peeks my curiosity. 
I could see that engine having its shaft machined down to a normal shaft for a minibike or go kart having the groove put in for the key and that would make a great engine for a minibike or go-kart. It would also be one of the most unique engines powering a minibike/go-kart.
Thank you to all of those who contributed. Every bit of information and knowledge helps.
If those who were interested would like to see the thing cracked open, let me know we can certainly make that happen, I have the time, tools and know how. If not it will remain a mystery for now.


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