# Threw a Rod in my Ariens Sno-Thro 6/24



## Snow Job (Jan 22, 2013)

Hello Folks,
I threw a rod in my Ariens Sno-Thro 6 hp Snow Blower (ran out of oil). Here's what it looks like.







. Notice how flimsy the rod is. I had a new rod installed but my engine is burning oil. Going to need new rings. I smell like a oil field. I'am wondering what new engine may I use as a replacement? Or, is my 6 hp worth rebuilding? Can a 8 or 10 hp Tecumseh motor be installed in my snow blower?
All replies will be greatly appreciated. 
Richard


----------



## Koenig041 (Dec 18, 2013)

What a bummer. I know you said you ran out of oil. Were you using natural or synthetic oil?

If you are having someone else do the labor, maybe cheaper to replace the engine. What engine depends on your needs. Some will take the opportunity to go bigger. Some will choose a cloned engine manufactured oversees. Some will just swap out for the same motor. 

I personally would stay away from the rebuild. Rings should have been changed when the new rod was put in, they had the thing apart. Do some research on rebuild kits and costs. Get at least 2 estimates from shops. Let us know what you decide.


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

it would be cheapest to throw a predator 212cc on and bore the main jet a bit. i honestly see no good reason to rebuild a tecumseh flathead anyways. they were hard to start, the carbs sucked, and they loved to throw rods and make unwanted holes in the engine block. a rebuild kit will run about 50 and labor will run about 100, and it may still not run right if the damage dont to the block from the rod blowing up was severe enough


----------



## lebenfitti (Oct 1, 2014)

Been there myself, bummer. As Koenig said, rings should have been changed when the piston was out. There is also a shaft seal in the intake valve which goes bad which should have been replaced. This may have been your original and continuing problem. These repairs are easy to do yourself, and can be fun if you are so inclined. Check out the videos on youtube by Donyboy 73, which I found through this forum.

Since you have to pull the motor off either way, crack it open and check it out. These guys on here will guide you every step of the way. If you get to a point where a rebuild is not justifiable then order a new engine. Good Luck.


----------



## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

SLAP a new old stock BRIGGS on it. and call it a day well done.


----------



## Snow Job (Jan 22, 2013)

Koenig041 said:


> What a bummer. I know you said you ran out of oil. Were you using natural or synthetic oil?
> 
> If you are having someone else do the labor, maybe cheaper to replace the engine. What engine depends on your needs. Some will take the opportunity to go bigger. Some will choose a cloned engine manufactured oversees. Some will just swap out for the same motor.
> 
> I personally would stay away from the rebuild. Rings should have been changed when the new rod was put in, they had the thing apart. Do some research on rebuild kits and costs. Get at least 2 estimates from shops. Let us know what you decide.


My buddy changed the rod. He also cleaned out the jets. He told me that there was excess oil going into the carb. Oil used was regular 5/20 oil. I think the old girl needs a new engine and carburetor. The Ariens is so well built, that it would be economical just to install a new motor and a rebuilt or new carb. We get an average of about 1 foot of snow every season, of course drifts are bigger.
One issue I found is that since I am 6 feet tall, my back hurts from bending over the snow blower when cleaning snow. Maybe in the future, I may buy a taller snow blower.


----------



## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

43128 said:


> it would be cheapest to throw a predator 212cc on and bore the main jet a bit. i honestly see no good reason to rebuild a tecumseh flathead anyways. they were hard to start, the carbs sucked, and they loved to throw rods and make unwanted holes in the engine block. a rebuild kit will run about 50 and labor will run about 100, and it may still not run right if the damage dont to the block from the rod blowing up was severe enough


no, it wouldn't....he can get a complete Tecumseh 7Hp-8hp engine for under $100 on Ebay and simply bolt it on ?











or 5hp










 
or, 10HP ??





 
many, many more to choose from...all made in USA


----------



## cdestuck (Jan 20, 2013)

Before I'd do anything I would put in some 30 weight or maybe some high mileage oil and see if that helps the consumption


----------



## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

When your buddy changed the rod did he also clean to rod journal on the crankshaft? When the engine is run with no oil the rod slowly melts and then starts to drop melted aluminum on the crank. As the aluminum builds up it welds the crank and rod together which is what causes them to snap. If he didn't get all the old aluminum off it is just going to do it again.

If the old 6 HP engine is a single shaft engine I would also just grab one of the $100 Harbor Freight 212cc engines and stick it on there.


----------



## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

Small engine warehouse has 7 hp tecumsehs for like 200 bucks. Web site say they have 83 in stock


----------



## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

69ariens said:


> Small engine warehouse has 7 hp tecumsehs for like 200 bucks. Web site say they have 83 in stock


much much much better option than a Harbor Freight predator engine.

yes, the predator is cheaper..but its cheaper in more ways than one! 

Scot


----------



## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

sscotsman said:


> 69ariens said:
> 
> 
> > Small engine warehouse has 7 hp tecumsehs for like 200 bucks. Web site say they have 83 in stock
> ...


In your opinion


----------



## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

HJames said:


> In your opinion


based on 50 years of data.


----------



## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

sscotsman said:


> based on 50 years of data.


I'm right there with ya, Scot. I'll keep running the old reliable Tecumseh's as long as I can. Let 'em run the chinese engines. Just more old iron for us.


----------



## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

sscotsman said:


> based on 50 years of data.


 
You have 50 years of data on the engine from small engine warehouse??
The 50 years of Tecumseh manufacturing small engines is irrelevent unless the OP can purchase a NOS H60 or H70. Techumseh too lowered their quality standards in the 80's. It's no coincidence that LCT, armed with Techumseh design and property rights, chose to design their snow engines using a Honda design rather than a Tecumseh design. Tecumseh was indeed a symbol of quality in the 60's and 70's, but the failure rate of the mass produced "Snow King" engine changed that reputation and they were never able to recapture it.


----------



## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I have about 50 years of real world, user data.


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

have you ever even used one of the predator or honda clone engines Scot? i just dont think its fair for you to be going around, bashing a product you have never even tried before. us, on the other hand, have owned many tecumsehs, new and used, and have had many issues with them. why dont you go out and try a predator before you go around making fun of them and bashing the product. there has been over 50 years worth of data from people using Tecumseh/Lauson engines and the failure rates for these engines, even when well maintained and kept after well exceed the success rates of the engines that somehow have not managed to blow up yet.


----------



## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

not this again(china/us) If it were me I would hands down put a tecumseh or a briggs over a harbor freight engine and I own a predator engine


----------



## Koenig041 (Dec 18, 2013)

The jury is still out on engine longevity regarding the clones. 3+ years from now, opinions will have some data to use. 99 bucks for a 6.5hp engine is attractive.


----------



## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Most of the failures with any engines is due to overreving and oil quality or lack of and many Tecumsehs have lasted longer than any of the new engines so far to prove themselves but if my Tecumseh would go prematurely my repower choice would be with a winterised ready LCT.


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

and the lct is also a honda clone, just and stroked, just like the predators


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

just bored and stroked


----------



## Snow Job (Jan 22, 2013)

Shryp said:


> When your buddy changed the rod did he also clean to rod journal on the crankshaft? When the engine is run with no oil the rod slowly melts and then starts to drop melted aluminum on the crank. As the aluminum builds up it welds the crank and rod together which is what causes them to snap. If he didn't get all the old aluminum off it is just going to do it again.
> 
> If the old 6 HP engine is a single shaft engine I would also just grab one of the $100 Harbor Freight 212cc engines and stick it on there.


The molten aluminium was removed off the crank shaft with acid. Also, the cylinder bore was honed. My buddy told me that engine has to break in, the engine was smoking a bit. He told me that smoke should dissipate eventually. In the meantime, I will be wearing my new cologne, Chanel SAE 5/20.


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

run some 10w 30 throught it until it breaks in then, it wont hurt it


----------



## RoyP (Oct 16, 2014)

Koenig041 said:


> What a bummer. I know you said you ran out of oil. Were you using natural or synthetic oil?
> 
> If you are having someone else do the labor, maybe cheaper to replace the engine. What engine depends on your needs. Some will take the opportunity to go bigger. Some will choose a cloned engine manufactured oversees. Some will just swap out for the same motor.
> 
> I personally would stay away from the rebuild. Rings should have been changed when the new rod was put in, they had the thing apart. Do some research on rebuild kits and costs. Get at least 2 estimates from shops. Let us know what you decide.


Could not agree more......very sloppy work on your mechanics part.


----------



## RoyP (Oct 16, 2014)

Snow Job said:


> Hello Folks,
> I threw a rod in my Ariens Sno-Thro 6 hp Snow Blower (ran out of oil). Here's what it looks like.
> 
> 
> ...



Yup......I would have gone with the replacement engine....Your buddy may have originally saved you a few $$$..but your paying in the end.....We always get what we pay for.. consider this a learning experience. Merry Christmas


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

My dream would be for someone like Tecumseh if they still existed to offer a heavy duty rod you could replace the stock one with since the main failure seems to be the rod. Other than spending way too much for a forged racing rod there just isn't an option (that I've come across).

$60  ARC Billet Rod Tecumseh 5.5 OHV 3.484


----------



## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> My dream would be for someone like Tecumseh if they still existed to offer a heavy duty rod you could replace the stock one with since the main failure seems to be the rod. Other than spending way too much for a forged racing rod there just isn't an option (that I've come across).


 It would be nice but I'm afraid that it has done its time as the new ones from LCT is the way to go with cast iron sleeves and crank bearings along with a quieter sound and less thirsty units. Of course the Tecumsehs that are still working will for a long time yet but my next repower would be with a Honda clone design with less CC's for the same HP and more torque.


----------



## countryboymo (Oct 13, 2014)

I would go with 43128's idea. 10w30 will still fling around in there fine and will help with your odor. If it is still mild weather I might run some straight 30 and let it run with no load for awhile. I would fire it up and let it run for 10 minutes or so and then let it rest for 10 at varying rpm and when it gets really cold drain it and go to 10w30. The motor might clear out and run forever. I would at least go with a thicker oil and see how it reacts before pulling it.


----------



## lebenfitti (Oct 1, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> My dream would be for someone like Tecumseh if they still existed to offer a heavy duty rod you could replace the stock one with since the main failure seems to be the rod. Other than spending way too much for a forged racing rod there just isn't an option (that I've come across).
> 
> $60  ARC Billet Rod Tecumseh 5.5 OHV 3.484


This rod would have survived a low (or no) oil situation?


----------



## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

lebenfitti said:


> Kiss4aFrog said:
> 
> 
> > My dream would be for someone like Tecumseh if they still existed to offer a heavy duty rod you could replace the stock one with since the main failure seems to be the rod. Other than spending way too much for a forged racing rod there just isn't an option (that I've come across).
> ...



Probably not, but it holds up better when subjected to RPMs over 3600.


----------



## SlowRider22 (Oct 17, 2013)

Sad to see...
Just goes to show you how important oil level is with engines


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I've seen quite a few Techs that seem to bust out the engine behind the starter and they had plenty of oil. Likely over revved but yes a stronger rod would prevent that.

Nothing survives loss or lack of oil.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Normex said:


> It would be nice but I'm afraid that it has done its time as the new ones from LCT is the way to go with cast iron sleeves and crank bearings along with a quieter sound and less thirsty units. Of course the Tecumsehs that are still working will for a long time yet but my next repower would be with a Honda clone design with less CC's for the same HP and more torque.


I'm with you there Normex !!
That's the thing about a Honda clone and of course a real Honda. They are better engineered engines and someone at Tecumseh should have seen the writing on the wall. You can't make the same thing for thirty years or whatever when the competition is bringing new and better ideas and designs to market.

I love the old stuff but I don't want old just because it's old or because it's made in America. Made in America has value to me but so does progress. You have to make that trade off for yourself.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

You had mentioned about a lot of oil in the carb I think. Is this an engine where the breather for the crankcase vents into the intake instead of just dumping down the side of the carb ??
If so it might be the separator isn't working right and it's literally blowing oil mist out into the intake and burning it.


----------



## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

HJames said:


> You have 50 years of data on the engine from small engine warehouse??
> The 50 years of Tecumseh manufacturing small engines is irrelevent unless the OP can purchase a NOS H60 or H70. Techumseh too lowered their quality standards in the 80's. It's no coincidence that LCT, armed with Techumseh design and property rights, chose to design their snow engines using a Honda design rather than a Tecumseh design. Tecumseh was indeed a symbol of quality in the 60's and 70's, but the failure rate of the mass produced "Snow King" engine changed that reputation and they were never able to recapture it.


Talk about a stubborn bunch. There is simply no way way can you argue that an antiquated flat head engine is superior to a modern OHV engine. Back when I was in college I worked for a lawn maintenance service and I helped the mechanic out with the maintenance. With the commercial lawn mowers we had OHV commercial Kawasaki engines and they were awesome. They were quiet and powerful and burned less fuel than did the old flat head commercial Briggs and Stratton engines. We even had two OHV Honda engines. One was on a seed spreader and the other one was on a yard aerator and they were both extremely reliable and started so much easier than did the old Briggs and Stratton’s. 

The L head engines are simply less efficient than the better breathing modern OHV engines. The L heads can not pass today’s emission requirements since the valve in block design simply allows far to much unburned hydrocarbons into the enviroment compared to the much cleaner burning more efficient and better breathing OHV engines.
Both Briggs and Tecumseh had a virtual monopoly for years and they made their money by manufacturing their engines as cheaply as possible since the old L head design cost less to make than the more sophisticated OHV engines. Much of the flat head engines had the cool bore design rather than a caste iron cylinder sleeve and they tended to wear out faster than the more expensive I/C commercial engines they made which had the ball bearing crank support and the caste iron sleeves.
Back in 1986 Honda using what they learned when building modern 4 stroke motorcycle engines designed their efficient and reliable OHV small general-purpose engine. Honda made standard on their engine the ball bearing crank supports rather than bushings for the crankshaft and durable cast iron cylinder sleeves, which previously you had to pay a premium for and buy the I/C engines made by Briggs and Stratton. 
Yes, they were more expensive then the cheaper Flat head engines but they were more reliable and used less fuel and Honda also used the modern multi baffle design mufflers which were much quieter than the old style mufflers used on the low cost flat head engines. 
Honda simply built a great small engine, which is now the design standard that we use today. Only a fool would say an old flat head engine is better than a modern OHV Chinese engine which utilizes a simular caste iron cylinder liner in it's bores and ball bearing supported cranks and multi-baffle mufflers that the sucessful OHV Honda Gx series commercial engines did. Almost all small engines today are modeled after the very sucessful Honda OHV design.

The management at Tecumseh was to blame for Tecumseh's demise. They knew about their connecting rods blowing for years yet they did little to nothing to improve their engine's design to prevent connecting rod failures. They simply blamed the consumer who now had a blown engine with a big hole in the crank case and told them you let the engine run low on oil or you allowed the engine to rev too high. Honda even though it was much more expensive won over many of Tecumseh and Briggs and Strattons disgruntled customers becase they built a better product.


----------



## SteelyTim (Nov 14, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> I've seen quite a few Techs that seem to bust out the engine behind the starter and they had plenty of oil. Likely over revved but yes a stronger rod would prevent that.


Seen the same here on the Snow King engines more than once.

On the plus side, no matter which is chosen usually there's little to no adapting of the chassis needed to mount whatever engine you choose. And it can always be undone if the owner decides.

GustoGuy, you have to remember that you're talking to enthusiasts and hobbyists here as well as people that just need to fix em to do the driveway, not people who by profession need to beat the snot out of their small engines on a daily basis. Even if you're 100% correct, the conditions that your machines have seen is something that ours will never encounter.

Efficiency when it comes to snowblower engines is a moot point. Next we'll be talking about emissions and how to fit oxygen sensors and catalytic converters on to our machines to make them more "green"


----------



## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

SteelyTim said:


> Seen the same here on the Snow King engines more than once.
> 
> On the plus side, no matter which is chosen usually there's little to no adapting of the chassis needed to mount whatever engine you choose. And it can always be undone if the owner decides.
> 
> ...


 True you could always get rid of that great running new engine and put up with a running flathead in it if you had to. Well I agree with a lot of people that snow blower bodies have more plastic on them and are made out of thinner steel today. I don't feel the same way about new engines. In many ways these new modern overhead valve engine are far superior to the old flat heads. They make more horse power for a given CC. The overhead valve design allows For better control of the combustion process. The new our engines release much less unburned hydrocarbons into the environment. Have you seen any new flathead engines used in automobiles today? People need to think hard science before spouting off with their opinions


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

The problem is some of "us" want to restore our older machines and want to go through the trouble and expense of rebuilding the old engine or replacing it with a similar engine.

Some want to just repair at the lowest cost so likely will stick with the old engine.

Some don't care and just want the cheapest way to re-power and go with a 99 dollar engine.

Some the 99 dollar engine is a big improvement from what they had.

Some want an older Tech or B&S because it was made in America or because they consider anything from China or other off shore suppliers junk.

Some want the 99 dollar engine not because it's cheap but because they can easily find parts to "hot rod" it.

Some are commercial users and dependability is way more important than price and they have the money and justification to buy a really expensive overbuilt engine that few of us would consider.

Also some of us are just nuts and do things that no one else in their right mind would do but still seem to find a way to justify it in our minds somehow. Have I mentioned I would like to put a 10hp diesel on one of my 32s just to see the puzzled looks on my neighbors faces when they hear it running ??

The main problem is we each have an opinion and it's driven off our personal situation and experience. There isn't one answer to what's best and there are always different opinions and justifications for which way to go with any persons major engine repair or replacement.

I'd have to disagree about efficiency not being a factor as I'm all for more efficiency since it's that less often I have to refill the tank. I have a lot of area to clear each time but if you are only doing a 20 X 40 then it likely isn't a concern. That's the problem with recommending this or that is knowing the strengths and weakness of the different options and the users needs !!


----------



## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

no body is arguing that a flat head is better than a over head engine but rather if the predator will last. Like i said i do own one on a slice seeder and it does run well but it took two trips to harbor freight, the first one i bought was seized up. if I would to buy a china engine it would be a lct. They have been making engines for some time and the local dealers have the parts for them as they are on a lot of blowers now.


----------



## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> The problem is some of "us" want to restore our older machines and want to go through the trouble and expense of rebuilding the old engine or replacing it with a similar engine.
> 
> Some want to just repair at the lowest cost so likely will stick with the old engine.
> 
> ...


 Well said K4aF! Different _4-_strokes for Different folks


----------



## Snow Job (Jan 22, 2013)

I appreciate all your feed back guys. I'am thinking on purchasing the Harbor Freight Predator Engine but read comments about it stalling. Anyone experience this? I like the oil level safety feature on the engine.


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

they only stall on machines such as tillers and other applications where the engine is tilted(they have to be tilted really high or really low to set it off). you wont have this problem on a snowblower. the predator is an excellent choice for a snowblower


----------



## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

Snow Job said:


> I appreciate all your feed back guys. I'am thinking on purchasing the Harbor Freight Predator Engine but read comments about it stalling. Anyone experience this? I like the oil level safety feature on the engine.


For the same $$ lct storm force from small engine supply. $50. more can get a briggs


----------



## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

The LCT would work just fine, I'd stay away from the smaller B&S intek's, there have been numerous reports of running issues with no documented fix.


----------



## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Snow Job said:


> I appreciate all your feed back guys. I'am thinking on purchasing the Harbor Freight Predator Engine but read comments about it stalling. Anyone experience this? I like the oil level safety feature on the engine.


Just pull the yellow wire fitting out of the low oil sensor and it will darn near run upside down. (Just kidding) I did disconect the low oil sensor on the Minibike and both my blowers. I check the oil each and every time when I run them and they are never low on oil either but it is good to get that as a habit to prevent a chance of low oil causing engine damge


----------

