# no start



## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

I have a Craftsman Eager-1 3.5 hp 2 stage snowblower that I picked up for $20.00. Got it home, and thoroughly cleaned the carburetor which was green inside from bad gas. I got a new carb kit, replaced the bowl gasket, new needle and washer for the bowl jet. I also drained all the gas in the tank. I did not replace the spark plug.

I added gas from my lawnmower gas can (mind you this is gas from early in the summer....)Hit the primer a few times, and On the first pull, I got it to cough. Second, third, and fourth pulls it ran for about 3-5 seconds and stalled. Then nothing on every other pull from that point on.

So I looked at the spark plug, and it was black with soot. Went to the store and got a new one. Installed the new plug. Several pulls and still nothing.

So I'm wondering what the issue could be...? I looked in the gas tank, and saw some debris. I'm wondering of some of the debris may have worked its way to the carburetor? Do I need to tear apart the carburetor again and clean it again?

I'm just lost cuz I got it to run (if only briefly) but now it won't turn over at all. Maybe I added bad gas...I don't know. Thoughts?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

You can drop the carb bowl fairly easily to check if anything is dirty in there. Did you replace the fuel line? Those can start to rot from the inside and leave little pieces of rubber in the carb.

Check for spark first. Just pull the plug out and hold it against the engine with the wire connected.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

I'll do that in the am. No I did not replace the fuel line. Though I'm sure it needs done. Any other ideas for troubleshooting?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Engines need 3 things to run. Fuel, compression and spark. Compression can sort of be felt while pulling the rope. Spark is easy to check with the plug out. Fuel can be tested by spraying some gas in the choke or dumping some down the plug hole.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Just verified I have spark. And I can feel the compression. must be the fuel - I'll pull the bowl, and look into a new fuel line as mentioned. thx


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Pull the plug and pour a tiny bit of gas down the hole, put it back together and pull the starter. If it sputters and runs a few seconds you have a carb problem.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

you the man Shryp! added some gas, and it sputtered right out. Gotta get that carb apart again. Which sux cuz it wasn't all that easy to put back together. Oh welll...thanks again


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Because I've done it I'm going to ask. Does it have a fuel valve and did you open it when you tried to start it ??


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

You can pull the bowl off the carb without removing the carb from the engine. Also, did you set the adjustment needles correctly? It might just need a bit of an adjustment. The main jet on the bottom is suppose to be around 1.5 - 2 turns out and the idle jet on the side is suppose to be 1 - 1.5 turns out. Somewhere around there should get her running and then you can play with them to get it right.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Ok. So I replaced the fuel line. I replaced the primer line. I cleaned all the debris from the gas tank. I cleaned the carburetor a second time (there was some trash in it again). I confirmed that I have spark. I can feel compression. The issue MUST be fuel RIGHT?

Now, ...I have a different set of issues. When I pull the starter cord, there is a loud squealing sound coming from the engine I think. That was NOT there yesterday when I got the machine to cough by adding a bit of gas in the spark plug hole. When I remove the spark plug, there is no squealing sound. Only when the spark plug is screwed in.

There are three issues that I noticed today:
1. There appears to be quite a bit of old oil/grease in all areas of the machine. Not sure if that is due to an oil leak somewhere, or if the previous owner just never cleaned the unit.

2. When I reassembled the carburetor today, and hooked up the lines and added gas, I noticed that gas began to pour out of the bowl. So I tightened the bowl jet further, and I'm pretty sure that stopped the leak. But I wonder if I flooded the bowl somehow?

3. The above mentioned squealing sound

Anyway, here is a brief video of the issues I'm having:


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Just to get the terminology correct. You are getting it to turn over every time you pull the cord. "Turning over" is the term for the internals of the engine to actually turn. Has nothing to do with it firing or running.

Down at the bottom of the engine should be a plug. You remove the plug and the oil should be almost up to the top.










Please make sure you have oil. See page 5 - > http://www.tecumsehpower.com/CustomerService/OperatorManuals/pdf/181-789-14.pdf

I'm still playing the video trying to figure out what that sounds like.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

OK. So I know for sure I've done something wrong with how I've assembled the carb bowl. I've replaced the bowl gasket. I'm near 100% certain I have a good seal with the bowl and gasket. The issue appears to be with the main jet...

So here is what happens...as soon as gas fills the bowl, gas starts to leak. The leak stops when I turn the bowl screw completely tight. Once I start to loosen the screw (one and a half times as recommended...) the gas starts leaking out of the bowl.

So perhaps I have something wrong with how I reassembled the bowl / jet? On the outside of the bowl, flush against the bottom of the bowl is where I placed the paper washer. That paper washer goes over the threaded portion of the jet, and against the fixed nut of the jet. I then turn the jet so it is flush against the bowl and creating a seal against the bottom of the bowl. With the bowl adjustment screw completely tight, I then proceed to turn the adjustment screw counterclockwise 1 1/2 times. Immediately gas begins to pour out....

Is there something wrong with how I reassembled the carb?

ugh...


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Just to get the terminology correct. You are getting it to turn over every time you pull the cord. "Turning over" is the term for the internals of the engine to actually turn. Has nothing to do with it firing or running.
> 
> Down at the bottom of the engine should be a plug. You remove the plug and the oil should be almost up to the top.
> 
> ...



Thank you for clarification. I suppose I can indeed get it to turn over. I can not get it to fire. I will add more oil.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

Can you confirm that you reinstalled the rubber o-ring for the main jet. Also, is it possible that the float on the carb was knocked out of adjustment cause the bowl to overfill?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Did you replace the needle and seat when you cleaned the carb ??

Did you remove the float from the carb when you cleaned it ??


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

I thoroughly cleaned the float. Did not replace the seat. 

I'm not sure if we are talking the same thing or not about the "O" ring. But my carburetor kit included a washer that appears to be made of some kind of paper-ish material. Perhaps it is rubber - not sure. But I have that placed against the bottom of the exterior of the bowl around the bowl opening for the jet. That "O" ring surrounds the threaded portion of the main jet and also lays flush against the fixed nut of the jet. 

I doubt that the needle is out of adjustment


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## cancon (Oct 16, 2014)

That washer you are describing is correctly installed as per your explanation. It is a 'flat' washer, not an o-ring. But, when you unscrew the main jet out of the fixed nut part there should also be an o-ring (and metal flat washer i think) placed above the jet's spring. Sounds like you're missing that o-ring.

Also, unless I've skimmed some posts it sounds like you're using gas from the early summer. Go get fresh gas before attempting another start. Bad gas is a huge prime suspect of no-start.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

cancon said:


> That washer you are describing is correctly installed as per your explanation. It is a 'flat' washer, not an o-ring. But, when you unscrew the main jet out of the fixed nut part there should also be an o-ring (and metal flat washer i think) placed above the jet's spring. Sounds like you're missing that o-ring.
> 
> Also, unless I've skimmed some posts it sounds like you're using gas from the early summer. Go get fresh gas before attempting another start. Bad gas is a huge prime suspect of no-start.



Yes, I've poured in fresh gas. No more stale gas...


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

It's a four part video but you might see something you missed.
Part 2 at 7 minutes is showing O rings


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Donyboy is awesome. I've learned so much from his vids. I'll take a look at that little rubber "O" ring on the spring side of the jet screw. Maybe that is it.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

you either have a problem with the needle and seat, float adjustment or possibly fuel in the float. Tank the bowl off and gently hold the float up and turn the gas on. You should not see any fuel coming from the needle and seat. If so the needle or seat is bad. remove the float and shake it and listen for any sloshing fuel in the float. If no sloshing of gas then you need to reinstall the float and adjust it. Also make sure to put the bowl on properly with the recessed part under the float pin. Good luck Carl


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Here are a few links with Tecumseh carb tutorials which will help in correct assembly.

Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Tecumseh Series 1 Carb 632107

Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Tecumseh (Lauson) Series 3 Carburetor 632334a

That little squeal when pulling it over MIGHT be caused by the spark plug being ONLY finger tight and blowing compression by it. I didn't see you put socket on it.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

great info everyone. Thank you for your assistance. I'll get back to work on it tomorrow.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Grunt said:


> Here are a few links with Tecumseh carb tutorials which will help in correct assembly.
> 
> Disassembly, Cleaning and Repair of Tecumseh Series 1 Carb 632107
> 
> ...



Ok. so I definitely need a new rubber "O" ring. But I am unsure if there are different kinds available? Can anyone assist with the correct model number for this part? Again, this is the "O" ring that goes on the main jet as described in Grunt's 2nd link above. This is a Lauson Carburetor, but different than the one he posted...


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

This is a craftsman 536.905903. no manuals seem to be available


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

There is usually a number on the carburetor itself or the engine number that will help track down the right part. The blowers numbers will usually only tell you what engine but not specifics, for specific info you need the engine numbers.
Your numbers might be stamped into the cover under the electric start plug.
.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

photos below for engine and carburetor models


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Lawn Mower Parts, Small Engine Parts & Much More! | PartsTree.com - Briggs, MTD, Toro, Cub Cadet, Husqvarna, Troy-bilt...

I think I need part 243 (Tecumseh 631021B). But really I just need the "O" ring.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

scratch that...wrong part. 631021B is just the needle for the inside of the carburetor.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Lauson and Tecumseh are the same. Purchase Tecumseh part number 631021B and make sure it has the rubber bowl gasket, main jet fiber washer, needle valve with clip and a needle valve seat which causes many leaks if not replaced.

Your Craftsman engine number 143.665082B cross references to a Tecumseh HS50-67142B which was found at the back of the service manual. Use the Tecumseh engine numbers to order any parts you may need for YOUR motor. You don't have to order parts from Sears.

Also, right above the casting number 132 on your carb is a vent hole which needs to be cleaned with a needle or a wire brush strand. A blocked vent could lead to leaking.

Just in case you don't already have it, here is a link to the service manual.

http://www.barrettsmallengine.com/manual/tecumsehlheadmanual.pdf


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

I did a little more research on your Sears model number. Are you sure the number isn't 536.905903 and not the 936.905903 you posted?? 
If I am correct, here is a link to the snow blower parts list on Sears parts direct.
Craftsman 20 Inch Snow Thrower Parts | Model 536905903 | SearsPartsDirect

The 536 number shows your machine was made by AMF\Murray. If it is a 936 number, I don't know who made it. Hope this helps.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

you are correct. my mistake. It is 536....

So I purchased an entire new jet - part number twenty below....

Tecumseh CA-631916, 631916-CA Parts Diagrams for Carburetor

Put everything back together, and paid special attention to reassembly. 

Connected the fuel line, hit the primer bulb twice, and guess what...gas came flooding out of the carburetor bowl AGAIN!!!!

My needle is properly in the needle seat. The float is perfectly horizontal when the needle rests on the needle seat. So I don't think that is the issue...

Now I'm wondering if I have a bad bowl gasket, or just the wrong one? I have no clue, but this is driving me NUTS!!!!


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

It might be your bowl gasket and you should be able to verify using a pen or similar touching the bowl and work your way up to even the carb body.
Gas should overtake your pen as it is hard to see just looking at the bowl.
Just a thought and hoping for a bad carb bowl gasket. Good Luck


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Did you take the seat out? The seat has a little ring on it that is suppose to face the carb body and the flat side is suppose to face the needle. The open and pointy area of the clip that holds the needle to the float is suppose to point to the choke side. The flat line on the bottom of the bowl is suppose to line up right under the float pin so the float sinks into the deep part of the bowl. Did you remove the float and shake it and listen for fluid in it? If it has anything in it it needs replaced. If you have gas leaking from the bowl while just sitting there the needle isn't sealing off the fuel flow for some reason.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I could be wrong but even with a bad gasket if the engine isn't running and the machine isn't moving and sloshing around then the float bowl will fill and the needle will shut off the flow before the fuel gets high enough to reach the bowl gasket and spill out ????

When you soaked it in carb cleaner it might be you swelled/damaged the needles seat and that's why it's not stopping the flow of gas.
Especially true if you used liquid carb cleaner and not the aerosol kind just emptied into a container.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

I did not soak anything in carb cleaner. I used the aerosol spray can to clean everything off. I'm going to have to remove the seat I suppose.

Three questions about removing the seat:

1. If you don't have a tool to remove the seat, what is the next best option?
2. What do you use to re-install the new seat? Perhaps the butt end of a drill bit?
3. How far down do you put the new seat? as far as it takes so when resting on it, the needle makes the float level/horizontal?

And I'm going to get a new bowl gasket. I'm starting to think I have the wrong one. But not sure...


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

1. You can use a paper clip or a screw if you are careful.

2. Back of a drill bit is perfect. A bolt or something would work too.

3. Push it all the way down until it stops.

Look at the seat. One side has a ring around it. That ring faces the carb and not the needle.

Could it be your carb cleaner swelled up the seat and blocked fuel flow?


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

check all the passages in the carb, including the ones you CAN'T SEE, and are hidden, i.e. air bleeds

see this thread

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...h-carb-problem-mystery-solved.html#post306681


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

The video I posted a link to should be the one that explains how to make a little hook on the end of a paper clip to pull the seat and also the size drill bit to use to install it. You just need to have the biggest one that fits properly. Once the seat is out try the drill bit you are going to use and see is it goes all the way down to the ledge the seat rests against.
You push the seat in until you feel it seat. The procedure with pictures is on page 22 of the engine service manual, a link to it was a page or two previous.

The float is adjusted by bending the "tang" that sticks off the float and pushes against the needle. The needles seat isn't adjustable. Checking and adjusting the float should be in the video too I just haven't watched it recently so I'm not positive.
If it's not in there just post and one of us will grab another link to a video that shows how.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Here is some detain trouble shooting - - > http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...-up-tecumseh-carb-problem-mystery-solved.html

If all else fails maybe it's time for a new one. - > 631955 | eBay


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## enigma-2 (Feb 11, 2014)

Been following this thread and I have to agree with Kiss4aFrog, the previous owner left gas in the blower (probably ethanol) and the carb is badly gummed up. Could be cleaned with some effort, but i would just buy a new carb for $50 off Ebay and be done with it. 
Remember to use a gas treatment whenever you get gas for your 2-cycle equipment and use mid-grade or premium gas. (When Ethanol breaks down in as little as 30 days, you can end up burning alcohol, with makes the engine run much hotter than normal. Premium has more anti-knock which helps keep the cyl head temps lower).

As for the squeak, hard to tell, but possibly it's related to the bearings in the ends of the paddle assembly. Old machine like this, those bearings may have sat for a while and the grease may have dried out. 

I don't remember, did you say you changed the engine oil? If not, first priority. Personally, I would use a half-synthetic oil and spin the machine manually before starting to get oil into the bearings oiled up, before starting.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Well, I think I'm just gonna give up on this POS. I replaced the bowl gasket a second time, replaced the float, replaced the needle again, replaced the needle seat, and even purchased a new bowl. So, I don't think there is anything (short of purchasing a new carb) that I could do. Hooked up the gas line, and gas started pouring our of the carburetor again.

Don't know what else to do other than get a new carburetor, and I really don't want to purchase one b/c they are over 100 new.

I'm so PI$$ED right now. But thank you everyone for all of your assistance. I wish this would have turned out differently.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Depending on where you're located maybe someone would be willing to buy it off you and take up the challenge ??
You should add a location to your profile so it pops up under your user name.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Relli I know you've had it but can you tell where exactly on the carb the gas is coming out? If you have difficulty seeing the source, as I had mentioned before you can take a pen or similar to go to the source. Gas will flow over your pen then you know it's higher up. Could it by chance a small crack in your hose line?


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

"Don't know what else to do other than get a new carburetor, and I really don't want to purchase one b/c they are over 100 new." they are only 17 bucks on ebay


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## cancon (Oct 16, 2014)

Did you ever get the o-ring for the main jet?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Normex said:


> Could it by chance a small crack in your hose line?


Wonder if the little nipple the fuel line goes on cracked or came loose where it is pressed in.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Ok so I got it to fire! Woooo Hooo! Yippee!

After everything, I took my machine to a local guy that I've used in the past. He diagnosed it as a float problem. He took my brand new plastic float out, and replaced it with an original float that had no issues. We tested the carburetor while there with a tank of gasoline and a fuel line hooked up the the carburetor, and sure enough, no leaks.

Took it home and it fired up on the third pull. Now I just gotta figure out how to get it running properly. It is LOUD as all heck. and runs too fast. Donyboy has a vid I need to watch.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Congrats Relli !
It boggles my mind why your new float wouldn't work unless it was slightly too big and was not allowed full travel and or the adjustment was off, doesn't matter it works.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

OK, so I was tinkering with the main jet to get the idle set properly. The motor was turning over fine...and then it stalled out. So I went to hit the electric start, and now the pull cord is locked and the electric start just makes a buzzing sound when I try to get it to fire. 

I thought maybe I overfilled with oil. I followed the directions by kissafrog to add the appropriate amount of oil that he shared earlier in this thread. So I thought maybe it had hydrolock. I took off the spark plug, and tried to pull on the cord. he machine is still locked up and the electric start still buzzes. thoughts?


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Likely the electric start engagement gear is stuck in the flywheel teeth. Didn't retract from being a little sticky on it's own shaft. If you have the little tiny cover that only covers the end of the starter, you could remove it and wiggle it off as you turn it a bit. I'd pull the spark plug first to avoid any built up pressure. Or, do it right and remove the starter and lube the gear shaft and make sure you didn't lose the end cap assembly on the start heli gear. It needs to have a spring in there to retract to the correct position. I know on the 8hp models the engagement gear shoots out and then retracts, the lower hp models I think are set out and then retract in to engage, then the spring pops it back out of engagement. May be wrong, but either way I think your gear is still sitting engaged with the flywheel teeth.


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

update. so i drained all oil. pulled hard on the rope. and its engine budged. got it loose and could turn over. added oil again. this time, only 16 oz. got it to start again. stalled. locked up again. I did at one point have the pull start cover off. and I know that it is NOT aligned properly b/c two of the screw holes on the machine do not line up properly with the pull start housing. so i suspect that this mis alignment is what might cause the flywheel teeth issue. Possible?


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## Relli1130 (Jan 23, 2014)

Ok. its running! its alive....the pull start broke - a pawl came out when I took off the pull cover. But at least I got the pull cover back on properly. Thank goodness the electric start works fine. 

So I got it listed on craigslist for 100.00 and already have interest. I've got about 50.00 into the unit. probably the hardest 50$ i've ever earned!

Thanks again everyone!


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Consider it a learning experience and to never rule out a bad new part.

I'm glad you didn't throw in the towel and found the culprit. As long as you aren't losing money it's all good


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