# HELP! Need thoughts/advice on new Snow Blower purchase...



## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

My Ariens 824 (circa 2001) just died so I'm now in the market for a new snow blower. She was a nice piece of equipment and served me EXTREMELY well but needs repairs that aren't worth the cost.

Given past performance, I'd buy another Ariens but new models now use B&S instead of Tecumseh engines as in my now deceased model. This scares me because my last TWO B&S-powered Craftsman mowers gave LESS THAN 3 seasons each. I know some guys swear by B&S but my experience is different so I need convincing to trust B&S again.

I'm considering Toro, Arien, and (maybe) Honda and am asking for advice from the folks here about their thoughts/experiences w/ recent models/engines from these companies. And, other brands too (especially those w/ Tecumseh engines). My budget is $1200-$1400 for a non-commercial model. I'm in MA and take care of 3 homes so I need something that can take a beating (w/ yearly PM).

Thanks!


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## Flannelman (Sep 24, 2011)

First off I now most of the guys are going to want to know whats wrong with your existing blower that is so expensive? Since most here are fans of fixing what you already have.

Second Tecumseh is long gone they went out of business several years ago so your engine choices are Briggs, Honda clones, or real Hondas.

Third the hands down best is the Honda they are spendy but they last forever and are still built well with little to no cost cutting which is why they are expensive.


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Flannelman,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Sorry, given that they still have a website up and that I've been able to get parts for my blower and Toro mower, I'd simply ASS-umed (oops) that Tecumseh was still making engines. Too bad. The one on my Ariens was very reliable (as long as it lasted).

The problem with the engine is that I broke down the carb to give it a good cleaning (it needed it) along with the other external parts of the machine last fall. When I put it back together, the idle was revving up and down like crazy (when it even started) so I asked my father-in-law (more knowledgeable in small-engines than myself) to look at it. Good news, he got the revving problem resolved. Bad news, the idle was too low and it just kept stalling whenever I put it in gear and to work on ANY kind of snow. So, I checked YouTube and found a video that indicated a couple of things to try in order to adjust the throttle, carb, governor and their associated linkages. I (thought) that I'd done everything right to get the idle up where it was prior to my breaking it down but when I went to use it yesterday it was stalling out on me again. So, I tweaked the governor out to up the idle a little bit more and tried using it again only to have the engine make a VERY sick sound internally and die out altogether. I tried starting it a couple of times but you can just hear something rattling around inside the block. Best guess? I blew a connecting rod.

I had to sink over $400 two years back for a major PM and overhaul. Specifically, I don't have the invoice handy but the work-order from my local Ariens dealer was over 3 pages long (single-spaced). I paid maybe $1200 back in 2001 for this blower brand-new and have gotten my moneys-worth out of it so I can't see paying to open the engine block to rebuild it. I'd consider taking a look at it myself. However, I don't have a garage where I can work on it during the cold weather. Maybe when it warms up but I can't afford 8 hours of shovelling 5-6 drifts by hand.

Finally, I kind of knew the Hondas are nice pieces of equipment but just want validation that the money is better spent there as opposed to Ariens or Toro. Like anyone, I just want to get the best machine for what I can afford. I'm inclined to trust Ariens again because of reputation and past experience but as I already mentioned, the B&S engine makes me gun-shy to go that route.

Please feel free to comment or offer further advice. And, thank you again!

Regards,
Chris


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## Flannelman (Sep 24, 2011)

Sorry I couldn't type more earlier my daughter was hijacking one arm as a pillow. Anyways from what you wrote I take it the rest of the machine is in good shape so I think it is a good candidate for one of these 346cc 11HP Horizontal Shaft Engine

It is a refurb HF predator engine. One of the forum members put one on a Cub Cadet he redid and it runs like a top. The place is about an hour and a half from you so I think it would be doable to get the new engine and have the old girl going in a long afternoon. The only hitch might be getting the right belt but even that wouldn't be to bad you'd just have to guesstimate and try a couple. So you'd only be out $200 or so plus time and you'd be back in business. Anyways just my .02c


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

For $100 you could probably get by with the smaller 7HP engine too. Will need to get new pulleys since the smaller one is 3/4" shaft and maybe shorter belts, so add another $15-$20 for pulleys.

The 11HP engine will make a monster out of it though. 

Back to your original question. Toro, Ariens and Honda are all good brands. Find a local dealer and play with what they have available and see which you like best. The only problem I see is getting gouged on the price since they are most likely in high demand since the blizzard you guys had in the north east.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Machines*

I can't speak much on the new ones as most of my machines are over 20 years old. Ariens, Toro and Honda all have their followings and are spoken of well.

If you're not afraid of spinning a wrench, there are a couple of options available. First would be to find another engine. Best source would be find a broken blower with a good engine on it so you could actually hear it run. If you find one with a 8-10 HP Tecumseh, it would be basically a bolt-on. The thing to watch would be the throttle linkage as they differ all over the place. The easiest would be if you found the same model or one with the throttle on the side of the flywheel cover.

Another option would be as mentioned is a clone engine. Happens I picked up a LCT 10 HP with electric start for under $200 delivered I originally planned to put on a 8 HP 24" Ariens. I was able to fix the original engine so it's still sitting in the box at the moment. If yours is like the Ariens I refurbished, biggest thing you'd have to deal with is reworking the chute crank, otherwise the rest look like it would basically bolt on.

There's a couple of ideas to consider. Hope it helps and let us know what you decide to do. Good luck.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

I put one of the Harbor Freight 11hp greyhound Honda clones with electric start on my refurbed 1984 26" large frame cub cadet and it runs great. You can plow into EOD and the engine just grunts for a second as the governor pulls the throttle open a little more and pulls even harder tossing snow with ease. I did not have to make any modifications to my cub except for moving the chute rod and the 11hp engine bolted right up.

here is a short clip 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJl-FaWcwbY


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Folks,

Thank you VERY MUCH for your input! Please keep it coming.

I'm not adverse to having a go at swapping out the engine at all. I hadn't really considered that option (mainly because I was so PO'd that my blower picked a REALLY lousy time to die on me). In principle, is it a basically straightforward proposition to remove and replace? The engine recommended by Flannelman seems like a good option but can I ask for some advice on how to be certain this is a fairly direct replacement for my Tecumseh? I took the following info off of blower/engine label (if it helps narrow things down):

_Ariens 824 "Snow King" (Model 932100)
Tecumseh Engine# HMSK80-155699W (H), 1TPXS3182BF
Displacement:318cc_

Thanks again.

Regards,
Chris


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Take some basic measurements off of your Tecumseh to compare with the engine you might want to get to swap.

GustoGuy was kind enough to share the measurements of the Predator 212cc he used with me for a project I had going. Here's part of that message:

The bolt pattern was identical to the Tecumseh 5hp engine and the height of the drive shaft was also the same too. I bolted it right on the snowblower and I did not have to drill any new holes at all. The mounting hole diagram for the base of the engine is 6.38 in/162mm by 3.17 in/80.5mm. The PTO height to the center of the PTO is 4.17in/106mm from the base of the engine.

With that in hand, I got out my tape measure and measured the height of the shaft from the base of the engine, the length of the shaft, diameter and size of the keyway. Then I actually sat the engine I was going to replace on a piece of paper and traced the outside edges and marked the mounting holes. I took the key from the key way with me and put it in the key way on the potential replacement engine and sat the "new" engine on the paper pattern I had. In my case, everything matched up, and I just bolted the new engine in place and slid my pulley onto the new engine. Everything in my swap was up and running in minutes.

Hope that helps.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

CarlB said:


> I put one of the Harbor Freight 11hp greyhound Honda clones with electric start on my refurbed 1984 26" large frame cub cadet and it runs great. You can plow into EOD and the engine just grunts for a second as the governor pulls the throttle open a little more and pulls even harder tossing snow with ease. I did not have to make any modifications to my cub except for moving the chute rod and the 11hp engine bolted right up.
> 
> here is a short clip
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJl-FaWcwbY


*That's why I love the Predator 212cc on my MTD. The Tecumseh would bog when hitting the snowplow pushed up snow at the end of the driveway while the Predator kicks it up a notch when the governor detects a heavy load. *It turned my mediocre 5/22 MTD into a snow throwing beast.


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## Flannelman (Sep 24, 2011)

As I understand it the bolt pattern is exactly the same. Carls cubcadet I believe had a 8hp tec and he bolted the 11hp on with no drilling. So it should just be removing the old motor and bolting the new one on then changing the pulleys.


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Folks,

Just wanted to let you know that I've decided to take a crack at swapping the engine with the one recommended by Flannelman. I was just waiting for some funds to be deposited in my account and now they're there! Hopefully, I can have at it relatively soon. I'll let you know what happens OR if I get stuck at all.

Regards,
Chris


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Ahhhhhh!!!!!! Dammit!!!!

So, I just pulled my Tecumseh off of my snow blower, measured everything, and compared it with the engine specs of the replacement recommended by Flannelman. Based on the info available on the vendor's website, the mounting pattern doesn't match up w/ my Ariens 824. I've got (front-to-back x side-to-side) 3-1/8" x 6-3/8" while the vendor's engine is 3-3/8" to 4-1/8" (slot center distance) x 7-3/4" which isn't going to work.

Looks like if I go with this HF-style engine, I'll need to downgrade to the 7HP model as the bolting pattern appears to be a match for my Ariens. It sucks to trade down on power but for the money it's probably still a better option to at least get me through to the end of the season. Not to mention being infinitely better than digging out a big storm solely with a shovel.

On the off-chance this vendor's online info is incorrect, would someone mind double-checking to see if their Tecumseh mounting pattern is the same as mine PLEEEEEEEASE? I would appreciate it very much as I'd like to order the engine over the weekend and pick it up Monday (if I can).

Also, according to the stock photos, the replacement has a single output shaft while my Tecumseh (has an electric start) has an additional (smaller) shaft offset by about 3" horizontally to the right of the primary (when viewed from the front). This smaller shaft measures (roughly) 5/8"DIA x 1-1/6" LG and has a 1/8" wide woodruff key. Now, I'm only guessing here but I'm thinking that this smaller shaft is associated with the Tecumseh's electric starter and is therefore N/A to installing this particular replacement. Am I correct or a complete idiot here?

On a side note, the replacement engine's primary shaft is a bit longer than the Tecumseh (by about 1-1/2") but I don't see that as being much of an issue. It should be easy enough to install the pulley in-line with the rest of the system.

I appreciate your help.

Regards,
Chris


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

If your engine has 2 shafts sticking out the front you are going to run into problems. They bigger shaft powers the auger while the smaller shaft powers the wheels. The problem is the smaller shaft spins backwards and at half speed. This means that the new single shaft engines will make your forward gears reverse and your reverse gears forward. It also means that all your gears will be twice as fast.


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

_"If your engine has 2 shafts sticking out the front you are going to run into problems."_

Please pardon me as I repeat my previous t opening comment:

*Ahhhhhh!!!!!! Dammit!!!!*

So close but yet so far.....

On the other hand, let me ask you this; I understand that I'd need to use the gear-shifter ass-backwards (and carefully) BUT is there anything inherently "wrong" with throwing the HF engine on my Ariens and using it like that for the remainder of the season?

Plunking down a hundred bucks for this engine just to get me (accepting the limitations such as they would be) by at this point SEEMS like a decent trade-off to buy me time and avoid getting gouged. If I'm going to kill the engine or this option just plain won't work at all then that money would obviously be blown for basically no good reason. 
That'd put me back to the beginning: finding a different replacement engine, repairing the Tecumseh now (rather than later), or buying another machine altogether.

I've seen some other potential replacement engine options (made by Tecumseh actually) *online *but they'll cost me more (on the order of four to five hundred bucks). I think the place offering these is called "Small Engine Warehouse". Just for the sake of discussion, does know anything about the company's reputation? I don't mind buying something online but would rather see what I'd be getting BEFORE I pay (like a lot of folks).

The other obvious question is can anyone maybe suggest a different/better replacement for my Tecumseh?

As always, thanks very much for your time and advice. I do appreciate it.

Regards,
Chris


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## Flannelman (Sep 24, 2011)

Sorry I was looking the wrong direction. I was thinking that a few more horsepower would be better but this is a smaller frame snowblower to begin with. So on a 24in width the 7hp predator should be just fine in terms of power for the size of the snowblower and would actually probably be a good long term match for your frame. Without the blower in front of me I'm not sure how the drive would work out but its probably possible with some tinkering to access more of the speed range but I think even to start with you could work with the two speeds they give you in what would be fwd with the drive running backwards. 

Also as a note because this engine has a 3/4" crank as opposed to a 1" like the 8hp(I don't yours would be anything but 1"). You will need some new pulleys you could get a larger pulley for the drive to help slow it down. Something maybe like a 3" or a 3.5". Though I would keep the same pulley diameter for the auger drive.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

There are other online sites to buy engines from, like small engine warehouse that will have 2 shaft engines that will bolt right in. Also there is a guy in reading ma that has used engines. He is list parts on the boston craigs list or sell it to me. As far as Briggs they make a great snow blower engine. Yes some of their lower end lawn mower engines suck.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Here is one more option for you. Find a used Tecumseh engine that has the same basic block as yours and even if it is a single shaft engine you can take the front cover and camshaft off of yours and turn it into a 2 shaft engine. But, before you go that route you should take yours apart and make sure the front cover and camshaft were not damaged by the rod.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Like this guy in Reading...

Tecumseh Snow King Snowblower engine for sale


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

as 69 ariens mentioned!!!


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Hello Again Folks!

Well, I think that I'm one step (hopefully) closer to having my snow blower back up and running. I just got back from picking up a 10HP Tecumseh Snow King engine that I bought from a guy on craigslist who apparently never got around to using it.

It's basically "never had gas in it" brand new and still has the tags on it. Essentially, the engine is almost 100% identical to the one that just died on me EXCEPT that the 10HP output shafts are of the "stepped" flavor versus the straight shafts on my 8HP. At this point, I'm hoping that you guys can help push me over the finish line with advice as to how I can best adapt the new engine to work on my Ariens 824.

My issue is that the pulley on the 8HP won't fit the 10HP's "primary" shaft because the bore and shaft sizes aren't compatible. The seller was only able to find the pulley for the "secondary" shaft but I figured that my local Ariens dealer (also a Tecumseh repair shop) would have some kind of adapter kit. I popped in there on my way home but was told, "no such luck" by the guy that I talked to. Anyhow, he did take a look at my engines and explained that while I "did well" w/ locating a nice replacement, the new one is for use on an MTD even though they're otherwise virtually identical. His suggestion was to "transplant" the larger shaft from the broken unit to the new one but left me with the impression that this takes a bit of doing in order to accomplish the task.

Forgive me for being somewhat skeptical of that recommendation but I have a hard time buying that. It seems to me that there MUST BE some way to make the pulleys work w/o removing that shaft. Even if there isn't a kit that can be purchased, it's STILL easier to work w/ the pulleys here.

I'm VERY INTERESTED to hear what the folks here think the way to go is. Please comment. Here are some pictures of each of the engine's shaft configurations.























































Thanks for your time!

Regards,
Chris

P.S. Just FYI, the guy who I got the new engine from was EXTREMELY nice and told me that he'd be happy to take it back if it wasn't going work for me. As long as I don't toast the thing on him of course!


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

You can get a new pulley here:
Steel V-Belt Pulleys | Lawn Mower Parts | MFG Supply

You will have to measure the new engine shaft and see how big the ID should be. I am guessing maybe 3/4"? You will also have to measure the old pulley for diameter. I am thinking maybe a 3" one would work. You have 2 more HP, so you could go slightly bigger than the old one.

You might run into problems lining things up as it seems like your new engine shaft has the step sticking out further than where the old engine pulley was mounted. You might get lucky and be able to install the new pulley backwards with the collar part on the outside to get the belt to sit back a bit further.

You might need a new square keystock piece to fit in the groove too. The bigger shafts use a bigger size key so your old one might not work.


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## woodtick007 (Apr 9, 2011)

CarlB said:


> I put one of the Harbor Freight 11hp greyhound Honda clones with electric start on my refurbed 1984 26" large frame cub cadet and it runs great. You can plow into EOD and the engine just grunts for a second as the governor pulls the throttle open a little more and pulls even harder tossing snow with ease. I did not have to make any modifications to my cub except for moving the chute rod and the 11hp engine bolted right up.
> 
> here is a short clip
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJl-FaWcwbY


WOW Carl! Your installation ROCKS! Did Harbor Freight special order that engine to match your snowblower? Or did you paint it to match? Either way great job! Gotta love the performance of those engines!!! They are amazing!!!


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Thank you Shryp!! I'll zero out my verniers and check the actual shaft diameter and go from there.

As far as lining up the pulleys front-to-back goes, we (the guy who I bought the engine from and I) were eye-balling that w/ the engines side-by-side earlier this afternoon and saw it the same way as you. That is to say that it "looks" as though reversing the pulley (collar side out) might work out okay. Obviously, the only way to know for certain is to mount and measure each block on my blower to see where the pulley needs to sit on the output shaft.

Theoretically, I could probably run the pulley over to local trade school's machine shop department to modify it (e.g. open the bore, grind down the thickness, etc.) if need be. I'm pretty sure that one of the instructor's over there is a guy that I actually graduated with when I attended the school (a LOOONNNNG time ago). Hopefully, that won't be necessary though.

Regards,
Chris


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

Maybe a pulley from a mtd would work?


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Hey Scott,



You see? This is WHY I TRY to remember and ask questions BEFORE I do something. I would've NEVER thought to look at an MTD pulley.

Honestly, I suffer from TWO THINGS that can *REALLY* work against me sometimes. They are as follows:


I'm blonde.
I also happen to be of MOSTLY Polish descent.
Amazingly enough, even as a blonde Pollack I managed to make it to 40 years old. Imagine that!!


All kidding aside though, thanks VERY MUCH for that suggestion. I'm going to try and run that information down. Hopefully, it'll really be just that simple. I'll definitely let everyone know how that pans out.


Regards,
Chris


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

woodtick007 said:


> WOW Carl! Your installation ROCKS! Did Harbor Freight special order that engine to match your snowblower? Or did you paint it to match? Either way great job! Gotta love the performance of those engines!!! They are amazing!!!


I don't think you can special order anything from harbor Freight. I just painted it when i was painting the snow blower.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

If the seller still has the mtd blower or the info from it, maybe he has the model number and you can look up a new engine sheave on the parts site for mtd


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Actually, he doesn't have the machine that the 10HP was intended for any more. Apparently, something broke with the auger on the unit and he scrapped it. He gave me the smaller secondary pulley but couldn't find the other one. Murphy's law - nothing's ever as easy as it should be.

I've got the Tecumseh crankshaft part number (easy enough). The headache for me has been trying to cross-reference the corresponding pulley dimensions. I'll get there.

Thanks!

Regards,
Chris


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

OUCH, on the old motor! 

That hurt.


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## roguefate (Feb 11, 2013)

Big Ed,

You can say that again! I figured people would be interested in the autopsy photos of the 8HP which is why they're posted. Initially, I thought that I'd gotten lucky with an undamaged block and be able to fix/replace the broken rod. However, there's small engine mechanic with a bunch of videos up on YouTube who broke down a Tecumseh with a blown rod.

As you can see the crack is right behind where the electric starter is mounted. I he hadn't pointed out to look there in his video, I wouldn't have found the crack until the warm weather came around. Interestingly, the guy on YouTube has a buddy who's a welder and took a shot in the dark w/ welding the cracked block. Apparently, w/ that particular engine it worked out well although it's not a slam dunk that this is a practical solution in ALL cases (depending on the extent of oil impregnation on the block itself, etc.). The other thing mentioned in that video is people have had SOME success with JB Weld (for the record, the mechanic in the video DID NOT recommend trying that).

Regards,
Chris


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