# Ariens ST824 (924050) throttle & linkage



## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

Snowblower: model #924050, serial #005321
Engine: Tecumseh HM80-155128E (though manual says it should be HM80-155128F). Serial #9017D

My unit has the throttle on the control panel, cable wraps around front of the engine, and then connects to the throttle lever near the carburetor. I'm having some issues with the engine not running correctly, even after cleaning and reinstalling the carburetor and I'm wondering if maybe the linkages and throttle are not set up correctly (I purchased this machine 5-6 years ago from someone who was refurbishing/reselling them on CL, so who knows if it was set up correctly).

Unfortunately, in all of the videos and diagrams I can find, they only have the engines with the throttle that is engine mounted, right next to the carburetor. The linkage setup is different, so nothing has been that useful. I have looked in the Ariens manual & parts guide, etc. as well as downloaded the Tecumseh Technician's handbook - but nothing actually has pictures of what I'm looking for.

Does anyone know where I can find diagrams of how exactly this should be set up? Specifically:
1) Where the throttle cable should route from the control panel and how it connects to the throttle arm
2) closeup photo/illustration of the linkages and which holes they go in


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

That Engine has Points-type ignition. I'd check that First.


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## Matt715 (Nov 13, 2019)

See if these help. Mines a 7hp engine, but I would think they're similar.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

Matt715 said:


> See if these help. Mines a 7hp engine, but I would think they're similar.


Thank you for posting! Unfortunately, yours is a different setup from mine. My carburetor is turned 90 degrees from yours with the choke knob/inlet facing the operator. So the linkage setup looks very different. I took some pictures of my machine on my phone an will try to get them uploaded later today to better show what it is I'm working with.


For now, here is the diagram for my engine that shows the orientation and the linkage bracket. This also shows the throttle cable being attached to the right side but mine is on the left. I don't see how having it on the right would work since pushing the throttle lever on the linkage toward the rear of the machine (toward the operator) increases the throttle. If I were to have the throttle cable coming from right to left, then when I increase the throttle on the operator control, it would actually close the throttle on the linkage.

Edit: unless maybe the throttle bracket is installed incorrectly (reversed) on the operator control panel? I have not looked at it that closely but maybe it's worth taking a look.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

The key thing to remember on these old Tecs is that the gov pulls the throttle *closed* as egine RPM increases. The throttle puts tension on the spring that connects to the gov arm, and the link from the gov arm moves the throttle plate in the carb. *THERE IS NO HARD CONNECTION BETWEEN THE THROTTLE PLATE AND THE THROTTLE CONTROL ON THE DASH!*

If the spring tensions as you increase the throttle control, the direction is correct. If it over/under speeds or surges, check the gov calibration (the screw holding the little arm where the link attaches to the gov arm in your photos). Once that is set, you set the max RPM by bending open or closing the "U" shaped wire link visible in your last shot, and *NOT* with the gov linkage. If you set everything correctly, and the speed is still way off, then someone may have "fixed" it and put on the wrong spring. Speed regulation is controlled by the spring tension as balanced by the pull of the gov against it, which explains why changing tension on that spring controls RPM. Note also that with no tension from the gov, the throttle plate will typically be wide open with the engine not running.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

Here are some pictures of my throttle and linkage setup. No idea if this is exactly correct but it's how it was when I bought the machine. I cleaned everything up a few weeks ago and it all moves freely with nothing sticking. Governor spring is brand new as well.













tadawson said:


> The key thing to remember on these old Tecs is that the gov pulls the throttle *closed* as egine RPM increases. The throttle puts tension on the spring that connects to the gov arm, and the link from the gov arm moves the throttle plate in the carb. *THERE IS NO HARD CONNECTION BETWEEN THE THROTTLE PLATE AND THE THROTTLE CONTROL ON THE DASH!*
> 
> If the spring tensions as you increase the throttle control, the direction is correct. If it over/under speeds or surges, check the gov calibration (the screw holding the little arm where the link attaches to the gov arm in your photos). Once that is set, you set the max RPM by bending open or closing the "U" shaped wire link visible in your last shot, and *NOT* with the gov linkage. If you set everything correctly, and the speed is still way off, then someone may have "fixed" it and put on the wrong spring. Speed regulation is controlled by the spring tension as balanced by the pull of the gov against it, which explains why changing tension on that spring controls RPM. Note also that with no tension from the gov, the throttle plate will typically be wide open with the engine not running.


I completely understand what you're saying and thank you for explaining it so clearly. I didn't know exactly how to put that into words. I just posted pictures of my setup which is different than Matt715's 7HP engine. I've seen a few videos on adjusting governor but I don't think this is my issue.

I can get the machine running okay starting with idle air screw at 1 turn out, main jet screw at 1.5 turns out (eventually turning to 2.5 turns out I think). I adjusted the tiny screw for max RPM to make sure it doesn't over-rev, adjusted idle speed screw as well. Everything seemed to be running great, then I engaged the auger and started driving it around the driveway (no actual snow yet) and the engine bogs down and dies.

So I'm hoping to get all the original specs/diagrams to ensure it's set up correctly, then adjust from there.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

It shouldn't require 2.5 turns out when everything else is working correctly more like 2 turns max 

check for sir leaks rebuild get a new carb
new carb 10 buks 10 min to swap out


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

greggmischenko said:


> Here are some pictures of my throttle and linkage setup. No idea if this is exactly correct but it's how it was when I bought the machine. I cleaned everything up a few weeks ago and it all moves freely with nothing sticking. Governor spring is brand new as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds like the setup is correct, but the needles are wrong. When you bring on load, you are transitioning to the main circuit in the carb as the throttle plate opens, reacting to the load, and if it dies, that means the mixture is wrong . . . typically too lean, but both can do it. Considering the stalling and the overly open main needle, is there any chance of damage to the needle or the jet it seats in? Normall when I see this, I open the main 1/8 turn or so and try again, and also have never tuned a small engine needle to max rpm - that's almost always too lean. Starting tune should be the midpoint between the two points where the engine begins to misfire or stall, and then typically enrichen slightly if you have issues taking load.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

Seems like I may need to try a new carb. It ran okay for last couple of years since I rebuilt it but it just does not want to work this year. Unfortunately the cheap carbs do not seem to work for my engine so I guess I'll be looking at around $90 for it.

I'll report back after I get it on. 

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm used to the throttle cable going the other way, like this:

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1659375-post21.html

Another alternative is to get an engine mounted throttle lever and get rid of the clunky factory setup. Here how I set up one of mine:


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

greggmischenko said:


> Seems like I may need to try a new carb. It ran okay for last couple of years since I rebuilt it but it just does not want to work this year. Unfortunately the cheap carbs do not seem to work for my engine so I guess I'll be looking at around $90 for it.
> 
> I'll report back after I get it on.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk


Do what you like but the 12 dollar carbs work well for me....like 30 with no issues last three years.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yeah, I have used 3 or 4 , … no issues … Love those Amazon carbs … 12 to 14 dollars … no brainer.


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## The_Geologist (Feb 6, 2016)

greggmischenko said:


> Here are some pictures of my throttle and linkage setup. No idea if this is exactly correct but it's how it was when I bought the machine. I cleaned everything up a few weeks ago and it all moves freely with nothing sticking. Governor spring is brand new as well.


I have the exact same blower as you do (including the carb setup), but instead of the throttle cable coming around the front of the engine, it is connected to the linkage bracket in the opposite direction. I can see a screw hole to the right of the lever in your first pic, opposite from where your throttle cable adjustment can be done. That screw hole is where my throttle cable is attached, and it still works with that lever. In other words, my throttle cable is routed around the back of the engine...not the front.

I have the governor connected in the same hole you indicated on your pic.

I don't have any pics immediately available of the setup, but can try to get some if you need me to.

I ended up replacing the carb last year, and have had no issues with it. This is the one I ordered (though at the time it didn't come with all the extras shown): 




EDIT - not sure why the pic isn't showing, but the link works!

The replacement bolted up perfectly, although I had to tap the holes for where the linkage bracket attaches to the carb.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

cranman said:


> Do what you like but the 12 dollar carbs work well for me....like 30 with no issues last three years.





oneacer said:


> Yeah, I have used 3 or 4 , … no issues … Love those Amazon carbs … 12 to 14 dollars … no brainer.


According to manuals and website info I can find, my engine (Tecumseh HM80-155128E) requires carb part #632037 originally which doesn't seem to be available, just the service carburetor #631957B. Everything new/legit seems to be in the $80-$100 range with tax & shipping.

I've tried two different carbs that say they fit HM80 engines (Replaces Tecumseh 632111 632334 632334A 640334A) and neither worked.

I'm not doubting that they worked for you and your specific engines, but this has been my experience so far. I don't know exactly what the differences are in the carburetors, but the only thing I haven't tried is a new OEM replacement carb, so I'm going to give that a shot.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

The_Geologist said:


> I have the exact same blower as you do (including the carb setup), but instead of the throttle cable coming around the front of the engine, it is connected to the linkage bracket in the opposite direction. I can see a screw hole to the right of the lever in your first pic, opposite from where your throttle cable adjustment can be done. That screw hole is where my throttle cable is attached, and it still works with that lever. In other words, my throttle cable is routed around the back of the engine...not the front.
> 
> I have the governor connected in the same hole you indicated on your pic.
> 
> ...


If you could get some pictures up that would be great! I'm interested to see how the throttle cable is supposed to work.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

greggmischenko said:


> According to manuals and website info I can find, my engine (Tecumseh HM80-155128E) requires carb part #632037 originally which doesn't seem to be available, just the service carburetor #631957B. Everything new/legit seems to be in the $80-$100 range with tax & shipping.
> 
> I've tried two different carbs that say they fit HM80 engines (Replaces Tecumseh 632111 632334 632334A 640334A) and neither worked.
> 
> I'm not doubting that they worked for you and your specific engines, but this has been my experience so far. I don't know exactly what the differences are in the carburetors, but the only thing I haven't tried is a new OEM replacement carb, so I'm going to give that a shot.


Just deep clean it. These things are as simple as a rock, and the one in your photos looks like new as it is. Get the kit for it, and you will have new needles, float seat, O rings etc. and should take what you have back to as-new in less than an hour and for about $15 . . .


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

greggmischenko said:


> If you could get some pictures up that would be great! I'm interested to see how the throttle cable is supposed to work.


I already described that in painful detail, and what you have written also confirms that things are right (or I can't read :grin.

You said that the engine speed comes up correctly as you advance the throttle, but it dies when you add load (to summarize).

If that is a correct statement, the cable *CANNOT* be the problem, since it has nothing to do with the ability to take load - the only thing involved there are the gov gear in the engine, the gov arm, the gov link to the carb throttle plate, and the gov spring to the arm that is set by the throttle (but does not move other than when you set the throttle).

If the cable were backwards, it should still take load - the control would just operate backwards . . . advancing the throttle control would slow the engine.

This practically screams dirty or misadjusted carb. (Might also be float level, since that can also cause a lean condition.)


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

GMorning Gregg, First off, are you Sure it's the Carb?? That's an older engine, I have it's twin. I would do a compression and/or leakdown test FIRST. Low compression will give you similar symptoms.... again, I have the same engine....That I'm doing a valve job to. If it passes the compression test, then do as tadawson suggests, BEFORE you buy ANY more carbs.

GLuck, Jay


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Usually, the differences in many carb numbers is the choke rod, and/or whether it is fuel adjustable or not …. otherwise, many carbs will fit the same HP by a manufacturer.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

Jackmels said:


> That Engine has Points-type ignition. I'd check that First.


DING DING DING! We have a winner! Yesterday I swapped everything over on the new service carburetor, installed it, and still could not get it to run correctly. It would fire right up and then die within 2-5 minutes as the engine warms up. This morning, I picked up new points and condenser (condenser looked to be original, points looked clean and fairly new, but could just be that they're well protected), installed them, and it runs much better. It still stumbles a little and doesn't seem 100% smooth, but it did not die and I was actually able to take a handful of passes up and down my driveway. I had it going for about 15-20 minutes, both idling and at higher RPMs and under load.

Funny thing, when it does "stumble" and seem like it may stall, if I remove the gas cap it seems to straighten itself out and run better/ok? It's a brand new gas cap, Tecumseh 34210. Are these supposed to vent? Parts diagrams say 33032 is also an option, but I have not been able to discern whether either of these is vented or not. Unfortunately I did not keep my original gas cap. Shops near me do not have either cap in stock so I'm going to take another look at it this afternoon and see if maybe there's an issue with the cap I have.

EDIT: the new gas cap did not have the hole/opening on the underside of it, so I don't think it was venting properly. There was a thin plastic layer obscuring the hole which I cleared out using a push pin. Got it back on and I just finished clearing the whole driveway. No stalling/dying, but a there were a couple of hiccups when off load, which I'm more than okay with. It idles great and ran smoothly under load (albeit a light load, as there was 2-3 inches of snow).



tadawson said:


> I already described that in painful detail, and what you have written also confirms that things are right (or I can't read :grin.


The sticking point for me is that when I advance/increase the throttle on the control panel, this causes the metal cable to protrude from the end of the black cable. This movement currently pushes the lever on the throttle/carburetor bracket backwards, toward the operator, and RPMs increase.

If I were to just reverse the direction of and side (from left to right) that the throttle cable attaches to the lever, without touching anything else, then whenever I advance the throttle on the control panel, it would push the lever away from the operator and RPMs would decrease.

This is why I think either 
A) my throttle/carburetor bracket is different than what I've seen in diagrams or
B) something else is reversed in the throttle cable assembly that allows it to work as it's currently setup

EDIT: given my edit above and that it seems to run smoothly now, there is no urgency around getting diagrams/pictures...it's now more of a curiosity for me


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Glad it Worked out. People Usually Ignore Points "Suggestions".


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

That is acting the same way.....I really don't want to change points and condenser......sigh......


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

cranman said:


> That is acting the same way.....I really don't want to change points and condenser......sigh......


It really wasn't that bad. Parts were about $30 from my local shop but I think they can be bought online for $10-$15. These videos helped me a ton, since this was my first time:
















Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

greggmischenko said:


> DING DING DING! We have a winner! Yesterday I swapped everything over on the new service carburetor, installed it, and still could not get it to run correctly. It would fire right up and then die within 2-5 minutes as the engine warms up. This morning, I picked up new points and condenser (condenser looked to be original, points looked clean and fairly new, but could just be that they're well protected), installed them, and it runs much better. It still stumbles a little and doesn't seem 100% smooth, but it did not die and I was actually able to take a handful of passes up and down my driveway. I had it going for about 15-20 minutes, both idling and at higher RPMs and under load.
> 
> Funny thing, when it does "stumble" and seem like it may stall, if I remove the gas cap it seems to straighten itself out and run better/ok? It's a brand new gas cap, Tecumseh 34210. Are these supposed to vent? Parts diagrams say 33032 is also an option, but I have not been able to discern whether either of these is vented or not. Unfortunately I did not keep my original gas cap. Shops near me do not have either cap in stock so I'm going to take another look at it this afternoon and see if maybe there's an issue with the cap I have.
> 
> ...



I can't think of any small engine throttle control that I have ever owned that did not extend the cable to increase speed. Kinda makes sense from a safety perspective as well. If the cable kinks speeding up, no big deal, you can always pull it straight to slow down. The reverse is not true.


As noted prior, if the spring gets tension when the throttle control advances (and the engine speeds up), the rest is irrelevant ...


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## The_Geologist (Feb 6, 2016)

greggmischenko said:


> If you could get some pictures up that would be great! I'm interested to see how the throttle cable is supposed to work.


I apologize for the fact that I did not get those pictures taken before now, but here is one that shows how my throttle cable connects. The cable itself hangs below the operator control panel and there is a notch in the heater box that holds the cable as it enters (just to the left of the choke control as you look at it from the operator position).

My throttle cable extends when moving to the slow position, and retracts when moving to fast position, if that is of any use.

Please let me know if you need further pictures or information.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

The_Geologist said:


> I apologize for the fact that I did not get those pictures taken before now, but here is one that shows how my throttle cable connects. The cable itself hangs below the operator control panel and there is a notch in the heater box that holds the cable as it enters (just to the left of the choke control as you look at it from the operator position).
> 
> My throttle cable extends when moving to the slow position, and retracts when moving to fast position, if that is of any use.
> 
> Please let me know if you need further pictures or information.


That is great info! This would explain why mine is currently connected "backwards". Sorry to ask for so much, but any chance you can take a picture of how the cable connects to the throttle lever? From under the control panel, on both left and right side?

My cable definitely extends when moving to the fast position and retracts when moving to the slow position, which is opposite of yours. I can't seem to find a part number for my throttle lever/cable assembly on my machine, but it's either the incorrect part for this machine or the cable is connected to the lever incorrectly.


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## The_Geologist (Feb 6, 2016)

greggmischenko said:


> That is great info! This would explain why mine is currently connected "backwards". Sorry to ask for so much, but any chance you can take a picture of how the cable connects to the throttle lever? From under the control panel, on both left and right side?
> 
> My cable definitely extends when moving to the fast position and retracts when moving to the slow position, which is opposite of yours. I can't seem to find a part number for my throttle lever/cable assembly on my machine, but it's either the incorrect part for this machine or the cable is connected to the lever incorrectly.


Here you go! The lever was set in the slow position when I took the photos. The first one is from the right, and the second is from the left.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

The_Geologist said:


> Here you go! The lever was set in the slow position when I took the photos. The first one is from the right, and the second is from the left.


Thank you! After looking at yours and looking at mine I see that mine is different. I also found a part # sticker on mine: 06910500 and after looking it up online it is the wrong part for my machine. Correct part # is 06912400. I also see that mine looks pretty new compared to the rest of the machine and the part # sticker makes me think this was a replacement part as there would be no need for the original to have it on there.

My best guess is that at some point in the past the throttle cable had to be replaced and a "close" match was found and whomever was installing it found a way to make it work: routing cable around front of the machine and reversing the orientation of where it connects under the heater box.

I'll add this to my list of items for this coming summer when I plan to do a minor restoration and paint everything.


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

Jackmels said:


> Glad it Worked out. People Usually Ignore Points "Suggestions".


I hear you.My father and I locked horns over one of our blowers with an HM80 using points.


He kept insisting that it wasn't points causing it to run like crap,but when I went ahead and changed them anyways,I found that the rub block had worn to the point that the gap was closed down to about .014 and they were pitted.I have no doubt they were the original points.In the parts stash I was lucky to find a complete OEM Tecumseh ingnition kit-they'll probably last another 25 years like the originals.I wouldn't say that about the Chinese aftermarket sets they're selling now.


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

The_Geologist said:


> I apologize for the fact that I did not get those pictures taken before now, but here is one that shows how my throttle cable connects. The cable itself hangs below the operator control panel and there is a notch in the heater box that holds the cable as it enters (just to the left of the choke control as you look at it from the operator position).
> 
> My throttle cable extends when moving to the slow position, and retracts when moving to fast position, if that is of any use.
> 
> Please let me know if you need further pictures or information.


Well, I got the new (and more importantly, correct) throttle cable installed. I also received the tachometer I ordered online so I was able to dial in idle and max RPMs (~1500 and 3600, respectively).

Funny thing, while installing the throttle cable, I could not find this "notch" in the heater box cover/shield on mine - it just has 3 holes to the left of the choke control and another small rectangle to the left of the 3 holes. Fortunately, the new cable does fit through the middle round hole but you have to feed the throttle cable through the heater box before actually attaching to the throttle bracket. It got me thinking, "this makes no sense; why would they design it like this?" It turns out, they didn't  My machine also has the wrong heater box! I should have #34140 but instead has a slightly different style (which is for newer engines/models where the throttle lever is directly to the right of the choke knob...and the 3 holes to the left of the choke knob are for a key.

1st picture is what my carb cover looks like (minus the stickers, as it had none when I bought the machine). I believe this is part #36547

2nd is best pic I could find of choke knob side of #34140. You can see that it has same hole for the choke knob and a slot for the throttle cable to slip in. This would certainly make life easier, but I'm not sure I want to spend $50+ just on a new carb cover. So I may just end up cutting a slot in mine unless I happen to find one for cheap somewhere.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

On the first (rusty) pic, the slot for the throttle cable is the long vertical one to the right, near thr front corner, but on the side. This allows the box to go on and off with the cable connected. (At least if on the correct engine).


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## The_Geologist (Feb 6, 2016)

My heater box is identical to the one in your first photo (that you called PN#36547). Having the notch sure does make taking the box on and off that much easier!


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## greggmischenko (Dec 12, 2017)

Finally found a good picture of what it should look like








Edit: just realized this has a different style choke, so it's not exact, but it does show the slot for the throttle cable.

Man, there are a lot of different variations...


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