# Simplicity 860 - not throwing snow very well ??



## Aceshigh

Guys, 

I started a thread in the fall in search of an American Made 2 stage snow thrower. I bought a Simplicity 860 2 stage with the 8hp Tecumseh engine on it. http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...nw-burbs-needs-1st-new-snowblower-advice.html I'm in the Chicagoland area and I've been getting pounded with snow and I've been using this thing with pretty pathetic results I'm noticing. It's fresh powder and the blower is only tossing it about 5-6 feet. Slushy stuff it's spitting out like an old man with prostate cancer. 

*Are these things really that weak??* 
I thought 8hp this thing would be a beast and toss snow like 20' at least. My neighbor has a new 1 stage that's throwing farther then this thing is. These new Chinese 2 stage Sno-Tek's from Ariens are claiming up to 40 feet of throw, and in the video's I've watched I've seen them tossing at least 20 feet from the 24" smaller 2 stages. So I'm kinda baffled at this American made Tecumseh powered being a weak thrower. _*Any one have any input on things I can do to improve it's performance ??*_ It's always on full throttle. I'm seriously tempted to sell this and go buy a Sno-Tek at this point, because I'm doing double and triple work tossing it only 5 feet only to have to move that and the existing snow again and again. 

Is it an issue of the auger belt needing more tension or replacement maybe ?? I can't see a carb rebuild doing a whole lot since it seems to be running fine.


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## detdrbuzzard

the auger belt could need replacing. are the augers spinning, if not you could have a broken shear pin / bolt. how much snow are you blowing? big two stage blowers don't do well with 2 - 3 inches of snow


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## Shryp

Definitely check the belt. Make sure it looks good and is tight. If you have access to a tach it could be a good idea to make sure the engine is running at ~3600 rpm. As they get older the springs stretch out and they don't throttle up quite as high as they used to. The last thing you can do is make a search for "impeller kit". There are already a lot of threads on the subject.it could definitely improve throwing distance.


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## HCBPH

Aceshigh said:


> Guys,
> It's fresh powder and the blower is only tossing it about 5-6 feet. Slushy stuff it's spitting out like an old man with prostate cancer.


2 Stage blowers do not work as well on 'fresh powdery' stuff nor slush 'out of the box'. You need to consider 'tightening' up clearances in the impeller housing to deal with the heavy slushy stuff - look at the Clarence Impeller Kit for ideas. Fluffy stuff is better handled by a broom or a single stage. Basically if you can't make a snowball then it's not going to do well blowing with a 2 stage. Same thing with the depth of snow, if you only have an inch or so you don't have enough to start filling the impeller. Quite frankly they like 'snow'.

To put that last statement into perspective: the other year I was rebuilding a 7 HP 24" blower. I wanted to try it out and we'd had an inch or so of snow. It only threw it maybe 5' at best. Had a place a couple of doors down that the renters had moved so it hadn't been shoveled and had maybe 8" on the sidewalk. Soon as I hit that area, the blower was throwing probably 30-40'. They like lots of snow of the right consistency.


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## Aceshigh

Clarence impeller kit.......got it. Will check that out. http://www.abbysguide.com/ope/discussions/9282-0-1.html
I'll look on Ebay or Google to see if I can find it. Going to call the Simplicity dealer near me for tips too. 

I like how this things got a super simple friction drive "transmission" which is idiot proof and is nearly impossible to break. 
I don't know if these newer one's have gear boxes but I'm reading stuff on the Ariens 8526 had transmission issues. 
So I don't want to go that route......*I just want to be sure this thing is capable of really tossing the snow FAR*. 



detdrbuzzard said:


> the auger belt could need replacing. are the augers spinning, if not you could have a broken shear pin / bolt. how much snow are you blowing? big two stage blowers don't do well with 2 - 3 inches of snow



Augers are definitely spinning. Sheer pins are good. 
I had to stick my head in there to even make sure it was really a 2 stage with an impeller (2 stage)

As for how much snow, man I've tried everything from 2-3" to 8" or more. 
This was fresh powder as it was coming down and I also tried the slush. I've hit everything to give it a full evaluation. Frankly the thing just isn't
throwing the fresh powder very far. I get 5-6' out from fresh powder, and it chugs on slush and dribbles out of the chute.
I might have an RPM issue possibly.....dunno. 

I did have my auger drive belt pop off the drive wheel, and I stood it up on it's face, removed the bottom cover, and put
the belt back on. I'm just not sure if the tensioner needs to be tighter. Looked to be tightened all the way to me when 
the lever was depressed. Getting a new belt and a carb rebuild kit just for the **** of it to be 100% certain.


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## Aceshigh

Here's a dumb question.....

Are all 8hp Tecumseh motors the same with carb rebuild kits ??
I guess I gotta see if I have an engine ID plate somewhere.....

Tecumseh Snowblower 8HP Carburetor Kit 632347 HM80 | eBay


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## woodtick007

Aceshigh said:


> Here's a dumb question.....
> 
> Are all 8hp Tecumseh motors the same with carb rebuild kits ??
> I guess I gotta see if I have an engine ID plate somewhere.....
> 
> Tecumseh Snowblower 8HP Carburetor Kit 632347 HM80 | eBay


No There are numbers on the side of the carb. Make sure the kit fits the number carb you have. There are many variations or series of carbs. I would not use the engine number because the previous owners might have changed the carb at some point.


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## Aceshigh

Okay, well it was a real MF'r locating this engine ID LOL......luckily one service center knew exactly where to look. 

Absolutely NOTHING on the carb. Apparently engine ID is on the front edge of the electric start on the engine. 
BARELY able to see it, I had to remove the electric start and use a wire brush. Then I had to grab my Canon DSLR
and snap a high res pic so I could zoom in and read it!!!! Project man, I tell ya. 

Engine = HM80-155361N Tecumseh 8hp
Carb = 632334A
Spark plug = Gap 28-30

This is all the info I got from doing the various searching. I'm posting it all here. I'm just buying a new carb. 
for later reference in case I lose it for some odd reason, but i'm going to mark the engine better. 
Parts and Diagrams for Tecumseh HM80-155361N


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## Simplicity Solid 22

How about the inside of your chute...is it coarse like sand paper or as smooth as wet ice??? If coarse, Quick fix put a towel or two at bottom of chute covering and fillng exit whole from impeller auger housing take some 100 grit and give a quick sanding and then wipe clean with wd40 or denatured alcohol...to remove rust/dirt. Then if clean & smooth inside spray w/ wd40 or pam all inside the chute area..

Proper fix for rusted inner chute...remove chute..sand it down and then primer it and then paint several coats with a nice gloss color of your chute.


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## Aceshigh

Good call on the chute. Hey Simplicity, how far does yours throw the fresh powder snow ??
Just curious what you have because it looks VERY similar to mine......what hp ?

It's not the prettiest thing at the moment, half of the interior is showing surface rust. 
I had plans to buy a powdercoating gun since I already have my sandblast cabinet and spare oven in my garage. 

I just haven't gotten the **** PC gun from Eastwood yet. 
I'm ripping the entire thing down and PC'ing all the metal to look fresh with black.


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## Aceshigh

Guys, I'm curious if I can expect to see this kind of performance or not. 
I'm replacing the carb, auger belt, and assuming it's running like new......

Is this realistic or is this just not even in the ball park ??
This is what I want. So if I can't get this kind of performance I am upgrading.


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## woodtick007

No en el estadio de béisbol lol


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## GustoGuy

My 1996 22 inch MTD with a Harbor Freight 212cc Predator and impeller kit throws snow as well as that machine does. My machine seems to be more powerful than my neighbors 8hp 26 inch since my snow rooster is just as big as his or bigger. An impeller kit will make a big difference since it will tighten up the clearances an is a great addition to nearly all 2 stage snow blowers unless yours all ready has less than 1/4th of an inch of impeller to drum clearance. You can make a mediocre throw blower into a decent snowblower if you power it right (7hp or more) and tighten up the clearance on the impeller.


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## CarlB

Your simplicity 860 if it an older one is very similar to my 1984 large frame cub cadet. I repowered my 26" cub with a 11hp honda clone and installed an impeller kit and a new longer narrower chute for better throwing performance. 

My Cub has no problem throwing slush 20 feet or more like a fire hose, wet snow 40' + and even further with medium snow. 

Your simplicity should have a 14" 4 blade impeller and 16" augers if it is the one i am thinking about. 

You should have no problem if you tighten up the clearance between the impeller and the drum as long as your engine is in good working order. 

Carl.


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## GustoGuy

Well we ended up getting about 11 inches or so of snow today and I blew my driveway out twice now. I used to have a relatively weak 5hp 1996 MTD 5/22 with a Tecumseh. I put on a new Predator 212cc and it really tosses the snow well now. I put in a homemade impeller kit made with Lock nucks and stainless steel bolts and it really improved its performance. Here it is back on 12/09/2012 with the first big snow of the season. I blew my driveway out and my neighbors driveway too as well as helping some people get their cars out today.


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## JRHAWK9

Keep in mind guys, the distance it throws the snow is really not a good indicator of machine performance in itself. My Husky seemed to out throw my new Ariens Pro 32, but there's no comparison in terms of the volume of snow moved between the two. My Ariens moves MUCH more snow. I took 9.5" of snow, full 32" wide, put my Pro 32 in the -fastest- gear and let 'er go. It had no problem taking it in and spitting it out. If I would have tried that with my Husky it would have bogged down and would have started to just push the snow, as it wasn't capable of throwing the volume of snow it took in at those speeds. 

The distance it throws it is basically almost directly related to the rpm of the impeller, which is directly related to the pulley sizes. The faster the impeller spins, the more distance it will throw....BUT the downside is you will loose torque supplied to the impeller. If you really want to throw snow, just run your impeller at a 1:1 ratio....lol It will really throw it, but will bog down once it gets to any volume of snow what so ever.

You basically need two things to throw a large volume of snow a long ways......power and a large impeller. With enough power you can spin your impeller fast enough to throw it a long ways without running out of the power needed to move the volume of snow a large impeller is capable of moving.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

Aceshigh said:


> Good call on the chute. Hey Simplicity, how far does yours throw the fresh powder snow ??





Aceshigh said:


> Just curious what you have because it looks VERY similar to mine......what hp ?
> It's not the prettiest thing at the moment, half of the interior is showing surface rust.
> I had plans to buy a powdercoating gun since I already have my sandblast cabinet and spare oven in my garage.
> I just haven't gotten the **** PC gun from Eastwood yet.
> I'm ripping the entire thing down and PC'ing all the metal to look fresh with black.



Mine does not throw that far...but it throws it far enough and with decent force... it does not look like Gene Simmons puking blood...Weak that is.
I was very happy with how mine worked it took on thirty inch drifts with ease. In fact it wanted more. I am not expecting a twenty Eight yr old machine to throw 40 ft but it was hurling snow for sure. 
Aces high definitely do what the others have said and try preping your chute as stated previously. Also fool with the chute deflector angle in very small increments...found that made a vast difference since we have to manually adjust ours. If no wind all the way back is key.
Also I believe the 970 Simplicity has the longer chute...that might be worth looking into...I believe it matches our machines.
As far as Powder coat gun my bro in law's brother has one and did bil's bobcat snowblower rims and they came out great.


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## Aceshigh

Okay, I will check into the Impeller clearance to see if that can be tightened up. 
I'm not exactly sure where the info is on that but I'll start googling. 



GustoGuy said:


> Well we ended up getting about 11 inches or so of snow today and I blew my driveway out twice now. I used to have a relatively weak 5hp 1996 MTD 5/22 with a Tecumseh. I put on a new Predator 212cc and it really tosses the snow well now. I put in a homemade impeller kit made with Lock nucks and stainless steel bolts and it really improved its performance. Here it is back on 12/09/2012 with the first big snow of the season. I blew my driveway out and my neighbors driveway too as well as helping some people get their cars out today.
> Mtd Yardmachine 5/22 repower with Harbor frieght Pedator 212cc OHV engine - YouTube



HOLY CRAP!!!! That engine is only $120 at Harbor Freigt!!!!!!!
HORIZONTAL ENGINE, GASOLINE , EPA 212CC OHV 7HP

Literally ......the shops around here wanted $100 for a new carburetor. 
I can get an entire engine for that price.......that's crazy. That really throws the snow VERY VERY well too.


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## Shryp

Aceshigh said:


> HOLY CRAP!!!! That engine is only $120 at Harbor Freigt!!!!!!!
> HORIZONTAL ENGINE, GASOLINE , EPA 212CC OHV 7HP



Don't forget your coupons! Sometimes they have them on sale for $90 - $100 and you can find 20% off coupons.


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## CarlB

Aceshigh said:


> Okay, I will check into the Impeller clearance to see if that can be tightened up.
> I'm not exactly sure where the info is on that but I'll start googling.
> 
> 
> 
> HOLY CRAP!!!! That engine is only $120 at Harbor Freigt!!!!!!!
> HORIZONTAL ENGINE, GASOLINE , EPA 212CC OHV 7HP
> 
> Literally ......the shops around here wanted $100 for a new carburetor.
> I can get an entire engine for that price.......that's crazy. That really throws the snow VERY VERY well too.


Actually you can get them on sale for 99 dollars and if you have a 20% off coupon its only 80 dollars.

I did buy three of the older greyhound ones when they had them on sale for 75.00 and were offering 6.99 dollar shipping on all orders, so i got three of them for 231.95 dollars delivered.


I guess I should have read shryps post before i posted mine lol.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

Carl B do you use the greyhound engines??? If so what on?


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## CarlB

Simplicity Solid 22 said:


> Carl B do you use the greyhound engines??? If so what on?


I am currently using a 11hp greyhound with electric start on an 1984 large frame 26" cub cadet this thing is a beast.

I put a 6.5hp greyhound on a 24" mid 80's snapper (which i sold last year) and it ran like a champ.

I also have one of the 6.5hp's on a nearly brand new 3000 psi horizontal shaft pressure washer that I got for free because it had a bad engine (guy ran the engine out of oil on his 3rd use) 

I still have two greyhounds in the basement in the original unopened boxes . You never know when you will need a good small engine.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

Nice....how much of a steal did you get the 11HP elec start for at the time?


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## CarlB

Simplicity Solid 22 said:


> Nice....how much of a steal did you get the 11HP elec start for at the time?


I bought it used on ebay from these guys 

Furniture, Inside the Home items in Tadd Wholesale Supply store on eBay!

I have purchased some other things from the in the past and it was always as described. 

The engine was listed as complete and by the pictures looked to be in very good shape. I got it for 60 dollars and it cost 50 to ship it. 

They shipped it full of oil and the carrier did not bother to keep the box upright when they delivered it so it left an oil stain in my driveway since the carrier had placed it in my driveway and it sat there for a few house since i wasn't home when it was delivered. I contacted the seller and as a sign of good faith he waived the shipping charges so the engine cost me a total of 60 dollars.

Since i am quite familier with the Honda gx and clones a quick removal of the head allowed me to verify that this engine was in like new condition. There as almost no sign of the engine being run and there was less than .002" of play in the connecting rod. 

When i went to hook up the electric starter i found that someone had put the wires on the solenoid in the wrong place and the starter wouldn't work. This may be why this engine was returned to harbor freight in the first place and appeared to be in like new condition. 

I put the engine in my snow blower and I have only had to use it one time in about 8" of snow the engine ran flawlessly. Since then I have acquired a 2 real Honda gx240's one of the 240's has electric start and one Honda gx340 pull start only.

So if the clone ever fails i have a real GX340 to put in its place
*Tadd Wholesale Supply*

*Tadd Wholesale Supply*

*Tadd Wholesale Supply*


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## jtclays

Aces, Have you actually looked at the impeller to bucket clearance? That machine should throw snow very well. It sounds like you have an impeller blade (or 2 or 3) bent backwards. I can't find my pictures anymore, but I redid a 1989 JD 826 and one of the impeller fan blades was bent backward (Shyrp actually told me so from my pictures). I realigned everything and noted the clearance between the fan blades and the "tube" of the bucket were near 1/4". The Clarence kit cleared that up, and she throws snow across the street if it's powder, watery slush easy 15 feet. 5 feet throwing is a serious defect somewhere, likely the fan blades. That Simplicity is a hardcore, heavy duty machine. I'd take the time to find the problem first.


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## GustoGuy

Wow, Bent impeller blades? I did not notice any bending of the impeller blades on mine when I installed my Impeller kit. However there was about 1/2 inch space between some of the blades (3 total) and the drum but I did not see any signs of the blades being bent or damaged. I used 3 ply Bailer belt and cut it into 1 & 1/2 by 2 &3/4 inch strips and I used stainless steel bolts and nylon ringed lock nuts with stainless steel washers to make my own Impeller kit. I widened my driveway up today and it looks like it is cut right out of the snow and you do not see piles of snow along the edges like you would if your snow blower was sputtering snow out just a few feet. My Snowblower launches it real high into the air and it falls like a mist of snow 40 to 50 feet away and leaves no big piles as seen by the second picture. Occasionally I hit chunks of ice and packed snow chunks from the car tracks and you can see how far the blower throws them by the pock marks they left in the snow. The shrubs are about 40 feet away from the driveway at there furthest point and there are pock marks are in the snow there too.


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## jtclays

These rotate counterclockwise as you look at them and have a similar setup to you cupping your hand to splash water. If the "cupping" is reversed, you kind of just push the water along. 
Here's a pic of a good one vs. one folded the opposite way.
I copied these off Pete's Gilson site just to show what I'm talking about.


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## GustoGuy

My impeller looks much different then that. The leading edge or the cup is shorter and curled upward. The other part is stamped downward and is incredibly stiff and it would take big ice chunks to bend that!. You can see it abit in the picture above how my impeller looks. Is that a picture of your blowers impeller on the bottom? It looks like something has grabbed on the the leading edge of the impeller and bent them backwards. Hit any big chunks of ice with this?


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## woodtick007

CarlB said:


> I am currently using a 11hp greyhound with electric start on an 1984 large frame 26" cub cadet this thing is a beast.
> 
> I put a 6.5hp greyhound on a 24" mid 80's snapper (which i sold last year) and it ran like a champ.
> 
> I also have one of the 6.5hp's on a nearly brand new 3000 psi horizontal shaft pressure washer that I got for free because it had a bad engine (guy ran the engine out of oil on his 3rd use)
> 
> I still have two greyhounds in the basement in the original unopened boxes . You never know when you will need a good small engine.


Did you try increasing the pulley size on the impeller/auger to 3.5"? With the 11hp you have the torque to drive the larger pulley. I took mine to 3.5" on my st524 Areins and when I crankup the engine RPM's to 3500-4000 the auger and impeller are just screaming fast lol. I live on a corner lot and can throw snow across the street(and its not a narrow street) and into my neighbors yards.... I am considering changing the engine to the 16hp 420cc version just for $hits and giggles.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

CarlB said:


> I bought it used on ebay from these guys
> 
> Furniture, Inside the Home items in Tadd Wholesale Supply store on eBay!
> 
> I have purchased some other things from the in the past and it was always as described.
> 
> The engine was listed as complete and by the pictures looked to be in very good shape. I got it for 60 dollars and it cost 50 to ship it.
> 
> They shipped it full of oil and the carrier did not bother to keep the box upright when they delivered it so it left an oil stain in my driveway since the carrier had placed it in my driveway and it sat there for a few house since i wasn't home when it was delivered. I contacted the seller and as a sign of good faith he waived the shipping charges so the engine cost me a total of 60 dollars.
> 
> Since i am quite familier with the Honda gx and clones a quick removal of the head allowed me to verify that this engine was in like new condition. There as almost no sign of the engine being run and there was less than .002" of play in the connecting rod.
> 
> When i went to hook up the electric starter i found that someone had put the wires on the solenoid in the wrong place and the starter wouldn't work. This may be why this engine was returned to harbor freight in the first place and appeared to be in like new condition.
> 
> I put the engine in my snow blower and I have only had to use it one time in about 8" of snow the engine ran flawlessly. Since then I have acquired a 2 real Honda gx240's one of the 240's has electric start and one Honda gx340 pull start only.
> 
> So if the clone ever fails i have a real GX340 to put in its place
> *Tadd Wholesale Supply*
> 
> *Tadd Wholesale Supply*
> 
> *Tadd Wholesale Supply*


 Cool find and sounds like you got it covered if something happens..
How do you find your honda's... do you go to ebay or??


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## CarlB

woodtick007 said:


> Did you try increasing the pulley size on the impeller/auger to 3.5"? With the 11hp you have the torque to drive the larger pulley. I took mine to 3.5" on my st524 Areins and when I crankup the engine RPM's to 3500-4000 the auger and impeller are just screaming fast lol. I live on a corner lot and can throw snow across the street(and its not a narrow street) and into my neighbors yards.... I am considering changing the engine to the 16hp 420cc version just for $hits and giggles.


I didn't bother to change the pulleys since my expectations were that with an impeller kit on it the stock impeller (this is a 14"impeller) that the tip speed was quite high and I really wouldn't need it to go any faster. I can tell you that in 6"of snow in 5th gear (brisk walking speed) it tossed snow 45'+ with ease and actually wanted more snow.

I think the large impeller and the ability to injest large amounts of snow quickly the stock impeller speed is quite adequate.


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## CarlB

Simplicity Solid 22 said:


> Cool find and sounds like you got it covered if something happens..
> How do you find your honda's... do you go to ebay or??


Honda's were found locally on craigs list attached to various OPE.

11hp prerssure washer (repaired the pump) paid 100 dollars
8hp frc800 rototiller (dirty carb easy fix) traded old snow blower
8hp em3500 generator ( bad brushes and avr easy fix) got for free for repairing another gen for the person.

All of the equipment listed above have now been repaired and in good working order. While i wouldn't want to steal an engine off working OPE, if needed I have three that will drop right on the snowblower. The easiest one to steal in the 11hp pressure washer.

Carl


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## woodtick007

CarlB said:


> I didn't bother to change the pulleys since my expectations were that with an impeller kit on it the stock impeller (this is a 14"impeller) that the tip speed was quite high and I really wouldn't need it to go any faster. I can tell you that in 6"of snow in 5th gear (brisk walking speed) it tossed snow 45'+ with ease and actually wanted more snow.
> 
> I think the large impeller and the ability to injest large amounts of snow quickly the stock impeller speed is quite adequate.


Mine has an impeller kit and I am fully aware of how far the thing can throw snow. I have my 11hp running at 4600 rpms on top of the impeller kit and larger pulley. People in cars stop to ask where they can buy a snowthrower like mine..... and then they see its an old clapped out ariens from the late 70's....lol


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## GustoGuy

You should give them a patented tool time Tim Allen Grunt lol. I replaced my 2.8hp on my Doodle bug with the Predator 212cc and it almost jumps out from under you if you are not careful and will pop a wheelie too. My snow blower throws 50 feet or more now and my neighbor walked over and asked me if I bought a new blower since it has as big or bigger snow rooster than his expensive 8/26 inch snow blower. The harbor freight Pedator was $99 and the larger friction disk was $71 so it was $170.00 but I painted it and put in an impeller kit so I may have spent $200.00


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## CarlB

woodtick007 said:


> Mine has an impeller kit and I am fully aware of how far the thing can throw snow. I have my 11hp running at 4600 rpms on top of the impeller kit and larger pulley. People in cars stop to ask where they can buy a snowthrower like mine..... and then they see its an old clapped out ariens from the late 70's....lol


I certainly wouldn't want my 11hp engine running at 4600 rpm's. It makes more then enough power at 3600 rpm to get the job done. 

Carl


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## JRHAWK9

CarlB said:


> I certainly wouldn't want my 11hp engine running at 4600 rpm's. It makes more then enough power at 3600 rpm to get the job done.
> 
> Carl


yeah, I was thinking the same thing, I figured it was a typo. I have both my Briggs small engines (wood splitter and snow blower) turning ~3,750 at high idle. I know a guy who works in R&D for Briggs and he told me the max rpm is 3,800rpms for the two engines I have. I only bumped them up a bit to mainly limit governor droop.


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