# Metal Shavings after 1st Oil Change



## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

Today I changed my oil for the 1st time on my new Toro QZE 821. It was after the first 2 hours

What I did was drained the toro oil I put in it when brand new, then with the oil drain plug out, I poured the rest of the clean toro oil that was left in the container in the fill spout to flush any extra metal shavings out.

After it looked like no more metal shavings were coming out and the oil stopped draining, I put the drain plug back in.

I then switched over to Amsoil 5w30 

Picture of oil, then 2 videos. The picture below I had the oil container tilted so most of the oil pooled in the corner.

Videos 

https://imgur.com/a/3Ovk3d2

Does this amount of metal shavings look excessive or ok?


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## johnwick (Dec 16, 2019)

Goodness.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

Looks like the oil has gotten water in it

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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

Look at the other one again.. I saw streaks which look like water.. but if you are seeing alot of metal.. it's not normal

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## BlowerMods1 (Jan 11, 2020)

I would definitely keep an eye on it. Some shavings are normal because of the manufacturing process but if you are still getting them after the next change I would be concerned. The pics do look like there is water in the oil but you video looks fairly clean.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

i would do another another oil change at the 10 hour mark for peace of mind.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

orangputeh said:


> i would do another another oil change at the 10 hour mark for peace of mind.


I would send in the next sample for an oil analysis as well.
They analyze ppm of various metals .. the chunks don't really get counted per say as they aren't is suspension...but it will tell you if your engines is wearing excessively as the oil will be filled with suspended particles.



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## Greg13 (Nov 25, 2018)

Pour the oil through a coffee filter, any metal will be left behind.


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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

Greg13 said:


> Pour the oil through a coffee filter, any metal will be left behind.


Already emptied the oil container at auto zone


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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

Shovel said:


> Looks like the oil has gotten water in it
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


That’d be crazy. I don’t know how that would be possible.

Sealed system, I keep the snow blower in my garage


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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

orangputeh said:


> i would do another another oil change at the 10 hour mark for peace of mind.


Definitely will do, might even change it earlier just so I can see the state of the oil.


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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

I’ve changed oil before on my previous new snowblowers and lawnmowers, but never really looked at the oil to see the amount of metal shavings in the oil.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

steeve725 said:


> That’d be crazy. I don’t know how that would be possible.
> 
> Sealed system, I keep the snow blower in my garage


The milky look comes from water.
Oil and water seperate...the detergents in our motor will hold the water in suspension.



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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

This photo of yours here looks like water has gotten into the oil...it has that whitish tan look.
The water will sink to the bottom until the engine is ran then it gets mixed up and the water is held in suspension. 









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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

Shovel said:


> steeve725 said:
> 
> 
> > That’d be crazy. I don’t know how that would be possible.
> ...


Well I’m not going to worry about it.

I’m not sure if it’s excessive metal or not, it’s too late to get that oil tested. 

If it was truly water in the oil, who knows how it got there. 

It was a brand new machine when I purchased from a reputable dealer, I put the oil in from a sealed container that came with it (The dealer asked me if I wanted them to fill the oil, and I told them not to worry about it) I did it myself as I had a bad experience with a dealer over filling it oil before)

Like I stated, All the new small engines that I’ve had, snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. I never looked closely at the oil at the first oil change, at least not took a video or picture.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

Here is some from a boat.. water gets in as the unit is under water.
While yours doesn't look as bad as this... The color is headed that way.









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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

Shovel said:


> This photo of yours here looks like water has gotten into the oil...it has that whitish tan look.
> The water will sink to the bottom until the engine is ran then it gets mixed up and the water is held in suspension.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I see what you’re referring to.

Still I wouldn’t have the faintest idea of how water would’ve got in the engine. Maybe it’s because I don’t run the engine long enough. This year my 16-year-old son started doing the sidewalks with his large snow shovel, we live on a corner lot, and I have a three car driveway. From start to finish It only takes me about 10-12 minutes to do the driveway with the snowblower, then I turn it off, brush the snow off and put it back in the garage. I do let the engine run for about 30-45 seconds before engaging the snow blower.

I say that, because I bought my 2004 Toyota tundra three years ago. The oil cap had a white milky substance underneath it when I removed it. I found out later it was because the guy I purchased the truck from only drove it back-and-forth to work which was about 4 miles from his house, so the engine never fully warmed up. I change the oil on that truck and never had an issue with that white substance again.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Water condenses in oil just from out of the air very easily.
When the engine and oil are hot enough it will boil a lot of the water out of it over time.
When a hot engine is shut down and as everything is cooling it creates a vacuum in the crankcase causing air to be sucked into the engine. There is also moisture-water in the air that is brought into the engine crankcase under normal circumstances, and that is a way of getting the water into the engine oil.
An engine usually has to be run at full operating temperature for an extended period of time, say a couple of hours, to boil off all of the water in the oil.
Looking at his oil picture, a lot of it looks like normal break-in debris, metal and water that was drained out, maybe a little excess metal debris depending on what engine is in it.
A lot of those cheap Chinese engines are not "Run in" much at all from the factory and you will get a lot more metal deposits in the first few oil changes. I have seen many LCT and other China motors first oil changes, and the amount of metal in the oil was extremely bad, it was enough to scare the customer into replacing the engine with another brand if they could. The customer didn't realize that it was normal on the first change or two, but if it continued then there was something to worry about.


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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> Water condenses in oil just from out of the air very easily.
> When the engine and oil are hot enough it will boil a lot of the water out of it over time.
> When a hot engine is shut down and as everything is cooling it creates a vacuum in the crankcase causing air to be sucked into the engine. There is also moisture-water in the air that is brought into the engine crankcase under normal circumstances, and that is a way of getting the water into the engine oil.
> An engine usually has to be run at full operating temperature for an extended period of time, say a couple of hours, to boil off all of the water in the oil.
> ...


Thanks for clarifying. That makes it easier to understand how water would get into an engine.

With my old snow blower I used to do the sidewalks and driveway, and it took me much longer than it takes me now with my son helping me.

I’ll run the engine longer than I have been, maybe that’ll help with the condensation.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

steeve725 said:


> Yes I see what you’re referring to.
> 
> Still I wouldn’t have the faintest idea of how water would’ve got in the engine. Maybe it’s because I don’t run the engine long enough. This year my 16-year-old son started doing the sidewalks with his large snow shovel, we live on a corner lot, and I have a three car driveway. From start to finish It only takes me about 10-12 minutes to do the driveway with the snowblower, then I turn it off, brush the snow off and put it back in the garage. I do let the engine run for about 30-45 seconds before engaging the snow blower.
> 
> I say that, because I bought my 2004 Toyota tundra three years ago. The oil cap had a white milky substance underneath it when I removed it. I found out later it was because the guy I purchased the truck from only drove it back-and-forth to work which was about 4 miles from his house, so the engine never fully warmed up. I change the oil on that truck and never had an issue with that white substance again.


How many times was the blower used for 10 to 15 minutes at a time.. if several that would explain the milky look developing...it doesn't take much water for the oil start to become milky.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

ST1100A said:


> Water condenses in oil just from out of the air very easily.
> When the engine and oil are hot enough it will boil a lot of the water out of it over time.
> When a hot engine is shut down and as everything is cooling it creates a vacuum in the crankcase causing air to be sucked into the engine. There is also moisture-water in the air that is brought into the engine crankcase under normal circumstances, and that is a way of getting the water into the engine oil.
> An engine usually has to be run at full operating temperature for an extended period of time, say a couple of hours, to boil off all of the water in the oil.
> ...


I wasn't picking any metal up on my phone screen..but if you guys can see it then it's there.
I would be startled for sure.. I would go buy some cheap oil and run the engine long enough to warm the oil..do a couple flushes / then change to good oil and drain it after a few hours and see if it still has metal it.



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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

Shovel said:


> steeve725 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes I see what you’re referring to.
> ...


It was used 10 times. Right about 2 hrs. Look at the picture of my uses in the MyToro app. 

I added the time manually after each use. 

There’s a few with a very short run time. Today I ran it for 3 minutes to warm the oil up to change my oil then shut it off.

There was 1 time I ran it for 23 minutes, that was to do the sidewalks and driveway.

My driveway is 25'x41, then I have the corner sidewalk 4.5' x 108', and the two sidewalks on either side of my driveway 
4.5' x 10' & 4.5' x 33'

So I cut my snow blowing time down by having my son do the sidewalks with his snow sleigh https://www.acehardware.com/departm...VjcDACh0obARKEAQYASABEgIf4PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

You have a lot of "Short Runs" there and it will not get hot enough for a long enough time to boil out the water in the oil, with those short runs and the "Cool Downs" it will actually bring more water into the oil.
If you could, you would want to run it for at least an hour or longer to help boil off the water.
That is going to be a normal occurrence with the shorter run times you have logged so it would be a good idea to do more frequent oil changes to help protect your engine in that case.
Most of your really good power equipment oils have additives in them to help combat some of the moisture problems that you are getting. 
Most of your "Automotive" oils do not have those extra additives in them that outdoor power equipment oils require.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

steeve725 said:


> It was used 10 times. Right about 2 hrs. Look at the picture of my uses in the MyToro app.
> 
> I added the time manually after each use.
> 
> ...


Gonna have to slow down lol. 




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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

WOW! 3 minutes to heat it up to change the oil! that's not long enough!
I normally run my engines 20-30 minutes to get them good and warm before an oil change.
It is good he keeps a log of everything, that is important to do for maintenance and any problems he might have with it to show the shop when he takes it in for service.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

steeve725 said:


> Does this amount of metal shavings look excessive or ok?


YES!! it's nothing not unseen on any machine that came into our shop.powered by a SPLASH oiled, not filtered engine. over the past 50 plus years of repairing OPE ,

I've seen this look on motors with well over 100 hours some with even close to 500 on them. there is NO filter,the ultra fine particles of normal wear suspend and mix into the oil becoming kaleidoscope like . 
water in the oil?? where dose anyone see the milky/butterscotch color that would be seen if water mixed with oil. IT"S not there,


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## steeve725 (Jan 25, 2014)

Shovel said:


> steeve725 said:
> 
> 
> > It was used 10 times. Right about 2 hrs. Look at the picture of my uses in the MyToro app.
> ...


Yes, Definitely will be slowing It down. 

At least I learned this early in my snow blower life.

Just like I mentioned earlier about my truck not being driven long enough to warm up the engine from the previous owner, I was guilty of doing the same with my new Snow blower and not letting the engine get warm enough.


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