# auger won't turn



## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

I have a green 9HP Murray snowblower. It starts and runs fine but mice got in it so there are paper shreds under the auger belts and the auger does not turn. 

First I need to verify that the auger should not turn manually. 

And that it's normal that I can turn the impeller manually.

I took the belt shroud off and it looks like the belts are fine and the tension seems good. Can anyone explain why there are two belts? Is it one for the impeller and one for the auger? 

Thanks in advance for any help for this noob.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

blacky said:


> I have a green 9HP Murray snowblower. It starts and runs fine but mice got in it so there are paper shreds under the auger belts and the auger does not turn.
> First I need to verify that the auger should not turn manually.
> And that it's normal that I can turn the impeller manually.
> I took the belt shroud off and it looks like the belts are fine and the tension seems good. Can anyone explain why there are two belts? Is it one for the impeller and one for the auger?


 Welcome to the forum, you should be able to turn the auger by just turning the impeller only. You will see it takes many impeller turns to turn the auger. The reason there are 2 belts for the impeller and auger is to prevent your belts from slipping.

Good Luck


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

There is one belt for the drive wheels and then another belt for the impeller. Some machines use 2 belts for the impeller and a third for the drive wheels.

The augers are connected to the impeller through a worm gear setup on most machines. This means that the impeller can turn the augers, but the augers can't turn unless the impeller is moving.

In essence the end of the impeller shaft is a giant screw. As that screw turns it pulls back on the augers and that causes them to spin.

If the impeller isn't working then there is something wrong with the belt system. The mice probably chewed the belt or the control cable that controls the clutch. It could also be that there is so much nest material in there that the clutch is jammed and not tightening the belt properly. It could have also knocked the belt off the pulley.

That all assumes that the impeller isn't turning. If the impeller is turning, but the augers are not you have other issues. Either the shear pins are broken and now the auger shaft is spinning inside of the augers, or the front gearcase is broken and then you have bigger issues.


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Welcome to SBF. Glad to have you join us. Looks like you should make a check list based on what Normex and Shryp have said and go down that list to find the source of your problem. Good luck, and let us know what you find. Darn mice! Just be glad they haven't crawled into your car's vent system like they have on my wife's car.


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

First, thanks for all the prompt replies. You guys are awsum.

So, turning the impeller by hand and the auger moves...

I think the issue is that there is a belt tensioner that's not working. I have chain drive for the motion wheels. And I have 2 belts. The belts seem in decent shape and the set of belt wheels farthest from the auger seems to spin. But when I hold the handle down to get the auger to spin the belt tensioner doesn't move so the belt closest to the auger doesn't spin seemingly because it's too loose cause the belt tensioner doesn't move...


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Sounds like the cable between the handle and the belt tensioner broke or was chewed through. Usually they are mounted with a spring though, so maybe the tension pulley is jammed and pushing the handle down is just stretching the spring.


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

Yes, I looked at the cable and made it very tight but no change.

And I can move the idler arm and pulley manually...


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

*update*

So, I verified that the auger cable is attached to the idler pulley and if I manipulate the cable at that end the pulley moves a bit. And I set the blower on it's face and removed a bottom cover and could not see where the cable was broken. 

The cable going from the handle lever to the bottom back of the blower connects to an adjusting bolt to a spring to a metal eye. Should I be able to see this eye move when I depress the handle? Should I be able to pull this eye with a pliers?

Can someone verify that at this point I should replace the cable? I mean, can these cables break inside their plastic sheath?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

They can break, but if the cable was broken you would know it. One end would most likely fall out. You could unhook one end and see if you can push it back and forth.


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

If I unhook it from the handle I'm not sure what I'd learn. The cable from the handle to the metal eyelet is like 3 feet long. And I can just unscrew it and detach the cable. I mean it's not one continuous cable from the handle to the idler pulley bracket. 

There is tension when I squeeze the handle but all I see happening is the spring expanding prior to the metal eyelet. I don't see the eyelet move or the other end of the cable move...I mean, I would think the metal eyelet, which must be connected to the rest of the cable, would and should move. It must move with less pressure than what the spring takes to stretch. So why doesn't it move. Can they seize or rust in place?


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Without removing the cable from the handle you can do it simply by pulling only the cable anywhere halfway to the spring and by pulling harder on the spring than what the handle does and if the pulley engages properly then it is simply the adjustment being too slack. Of course many components can rust and there are some that has to be lubricated once yearly. A operator manual is a god send for the lubrication points.


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

Thanks for getting back to me.

I don't think it really an adjustment that's needed. What I'm trying to find out is how the auger clutch cable is supposed to work. The cable goes from the handle to an adjustment screw/bolt on the other end. This bolt connects to a spring that connects to a metal eye that's sticking out from the body of the snowblower. 

There is no bracket down there like I see on so many utube demos. The cable connects directly to the metal eye. I have the cable adjustment screw as short as possible because I thought that since the belt tensioner on the other end doesn't move there must be too much slack. Still doesn't work. 

So I need to find out how the auger clutch cable is supposed to work. It seems to me, on this Murray Ultra Snowking, that if I depress the handle which tightens the cable I should pull out the metal eye which the cable attaches to but instead only the spring stretches.

Seems to me that either the cable is seized somewhere or broken. Probably not broken because then the metal eye/cable should move too easily. The metal eye seems to connect to the rest of the cable and the cable is attached to the idler bracket on the other end. 

Can anyone verify that I should expect to see the metal eyelet move when cable tension is applied? And is there a couple of places I should lube the cable?


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Welcome blacky
A model number we could look at drawings of or even some photos of what you are telling us about would be handy. A 9 hp Murray of what vintage? Is there a model number on the machine somewhere?


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

I agree with dbert on this one as I don't have much experience with Murrays but ordinarily its mechanism should not be much different from other mainstream brands.


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

I'll take pictures tomorrow. I tried finding model info and will look again...


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

model # is G2784030. Can't seem to find good info on this model# but it shows in the second picture.

I've attached 2 pictures and the second 1 shows the auger cable spring connected to the metal eyelet that won't move. When the auger clutch handle is pressed only the spring expands.

Should the metal eyelet be pulled out when the handle is pressed?


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

blacky said:


> Should the metal eyelet be pulled out when the handle is pressed?


 Indeed it should pull but not too long. Your cable has indication of small rust inside that prevent it to move. There are a couple things you can try with good quality penetrant lube like Fluid Film or PB Blaster by pulling the plastic sheave near the eyelet and spray some at the steel cable itself, repeat lubrication at other end of cable and being careful not to spill any on pulleys and belts. Lastly I would take a small piece of lumber (ie:2X4)
and hit the idler pulley for it to move but be careful not to hit too hard to bend the idler. The rust you are dealing with is from condensation and 
not too hard to eradicate with oil spraying. Try this and report back please.
Good Luck


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

Ok, I've sprayed the oil on both ends of the cable by the plastic sleeves so we'll see.

Now I'm wondering if the cable end that connects to the bracket that holds the belt tension pulley could be connected to the bracket backwards. I see when I move the pulley against the belt that the cable doesn't come out straight from the plastic sleeve but instead moves sideways toward the operator end of the blower. 

Can anyone confirm the cable should not move sideways...?


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

From what I can see the cable gets slacken when you push the idler by hand so no it wouldn't go sideways but I could be corrected.
From the first picture, what I see is when the cable gets pulled by the operator handle it releases a small latch at the pulley end which the small green bracket holding the idler goes against the very small pulley to bring proper belt tension.
BTW all that area now discussed could be sprayed profusely with oil spray with being careful not on the belt and the large pulley so it doesn't slip.
From your answer the idler is not seized but just the cable which I hope is not cracked along its length to allow moisture in hence some rust.
Could you try to pull on the cable with a plier or similar at the eyelet?


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

I've tried pulling the eyelet with pliers and it won't move at all. So I am trying to spray it with oil every so often and then pulling the eyelet. No luck so far.

As far as the other end goes, as can be seen from the picture there is a bracket with a belt tensioner on it and the cable attaches to it. I just thought it was strange that I could move the tensioner easily against the belt but the cable doesn't play out from the black plastic collar. Instead the cable bends leftward in the picture...


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

Oh wait. I see why the cable bends sideways when I move the belt tensioner. The cable won't feed back up into the plastic cable sheath so it moves sideways instead...


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

blacky said:


> Oh wait. I see why the cable bends sideways when I move the belt tensioner. The cable won't feed back up into the plastic cable sheath so it moves sideways instead...


 yes that was exactly what I meant to say but I could be blamed for coming across not as clear with my French daily usage and upbringing.:blush:

Nevertheless it indicates your steel cable is rusted inside its sheating and as I mentioned previously when oiled try to work it at the eyelet with a plier or vice grip.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

you may want to consider pricing up a new cable ! nothing wrong with freeing up the existing one, but will it break at the worst possible time....yep. jmo


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

I've been trying to find info to get the right part number with no luck. It seems that my model number has been scrubbed from the web since Murray was bought out.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Just a shot in the dark but this link has some Murray parts:
Murray Snowblower Parts In Stock | Same Day Shipping from RepairClinic.com


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

blacky said:


> I've tried pulling the eyelet with pliers and it won't move at all. So I am trying to spray it with oil every so often and then pulling the eyelet. No luck so far.
> 
> As far as the other end goes, as can be seen from the picture there is a bracket with a belt tensioner on it and the cable attaches to it. I just thought it was strange that I could move the tensioner easily against the belt but the cable doesn't play out from the black plastic collar. Instead the cable bends leftward in the picture...


Can you add another photo of that cable attachment, showing the top of the bracket and spring attachment, kind of all of the parts. From past experience those cables should pull straight up, as much as possible. Looks like yours is pulling at quite an angle which makes me wonder if the spring is fatigued and just expanding and not pulling the clutch mechanism with enough hutzbah. I would be looking to see if you can change the attachment point for more of a straight up pull, and check the internal joints and pivot points for further corrosion which may be binding up the entire enterprise. It also looks like the auger belt might be stretched so that even if you do get the tension working, the belt may slip in heavy going. More photo detail might help though.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

blacky said:


> model # is G2784030. Can't seem to find good info on this model# but it shows in the second picture.
> 
> I've attached 2 pictures and the second 1 shows the auger cable spring connected to the metal eyelet that won't move. When the auger clutch handle is pressed only the spring expands.
> 
> Should the metal eyelet be pulled out when the handle is pressed?


Try this site to see if you can track down the parts and what it should look like. Maybe that eyelet is an addition to replace what should be there.

Murray st Parts Diagram Index for G2784-030


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

skutflut said:


> Try this site to see if you can track down the parts and what it should look like. Maybe that eyelet is an addition to replace what should be there.
> 
> Murray st Parts Diagram Index for G2784-030


 Good find Skut and the part number for the cable is #341024
Just hoping someone has it in stock.


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

Thanks for the help guys. The auger cable on the parts list site looks right. Not sure why you could find my model but it didn't show when I looked. 

Right now I'm trying to remove the old cable. And of course the genius engineers designed this machine like the cable would never have to be removed or replaced. There is not enough room to remove the z fitting on the end of the cable because the large belt pulley is in the way. Can't remove the pulley because it's seized to the shaft. Can't remove the bracket that holds the z fitting because there is not enough room inside the bracket for a wrench to fit over the nut. Also, can't remove the end of the cable's plastic sleeve from another bracket. It should just slide out of the bracket but it looks like it's held in place by plastic prongs on the plastic cable end.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

blacky said:


> Right now I'm trying to remove the old cable. And of course the genius engineers designed this machine like the cable would never have to be removed or replaced. There is not enough room to remove the z fitting on the end of the cable because the large belt pulley is in the way. Can't remove the pulley because it's seized to the shaft. Can't remove the bracket that holds the z fitting because their is not enough room inside the bracket for a wrench to fit over the nut. Also, can't remove the end of the cable's plastic sleeve from another bracket. It should just slide out of the bracket but it looks like it's held in place by plastic prongs on the plastic cable end.


 Ok let's start by the end, the plastic prongs can be squeezed with long nose pliers and remove by pushing it out. So waiting on your next challenge one at a time.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

blacky said:


> Thanks for the help guys. The auger cable on the parts list site looks right. Not sure why you could find my model but it didn't show when I looked.
> 
> Right now I'm trying to remove the old cable. And of course the genius engineers designed this machine like the cable would never have to be removed or replaced. There is not enough room to remove the z fitting on the end of the cable because the large belt pulley is in the way. Can't remove the pulley because it's seized to the shaft. Can't remove the bracket that holds the z fitting because their is not enough room inside the bracket for a wrench to fit over the nut. Also, can't remove the end of the cable's plastic sleeve from another bracket. It should just slide out of the bracket but it looks like it's held in place by plastic prongs on the plastic cable end.



you probably have to squeeze those plastic prongs with needle nose pliers to compress them, so you can get the plastic holder out. Snowblowers are made like cars now, plastic bits all over that snap into other plastic bits, and usually break when unsnapping them. Don't try removing them when its cold, just guarantees soething will break. 

Have you tried penetrating oil on the pulley/shaft? Maybe rent a wheel puller if there is room to get it loose after letting it soak. 

If all else fails, find a good shop. They have probably been there and done that lots of times. Just don't spend more than its worth.


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

If you split the machine, you will have more room to work. The Murray parts site posted is a very good site. There are others also. Type in "Murray snowblower parts", and quite a few will come up. And all are helpful. I just rebuilt a 22" Murray, I like it, It is a very sturdy machine. I gave it to one of my kids. 
Sid


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

Has anyone actually taken one of these auger cables off? Using a needlenose won't work to depress the plastic prongs at the end of the cable because there are 3 or 4 of them. They need to be depressed all at the same time...

I think I have to cut this cable off. The z fitting that I don't have enough room to remove would then come out the other way away from the pulley that's in the way. Then when I put the new one on I can just put the z fitting onto the bracket the opposite way. Does it matter which way the z fitting faces?


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

blacky said:


> Has anyone actually taken one of these auger cables off? Using a needlenose won't work to depress the plastic prongs at the end of the cable because there are 3 or 4 of them. They need to be depressed all at the same time...
> 
> I think I have to cut this cable off. The z fitting that I don't have enough room to remove would then come out the other way away from the pulley that's in the way. Then when I put the new one on I can just put the z fitting onto the bracket the opposite way. Does it matter which way the z fitting faces?


 You can cut the cable as you said but for arguments sake there are 2 prongs separated and 2 more not separated. If you can split the blower as Sid mentioned in the previous post you will have more working space.
As for your statement " Does it matter which way the z fitting faces?"
it should be apparent which the Z end goes to where but if the cable is a one length with 2 Z ends then no it is doesn't matter just don't clip the prongs unless you are sure.
Good Luck


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

Update

I unhooked the auger cable from the back and body of the machine. So now I can use a pliers and yank the cable in a straight line opposite from where the plastic end is fixed and the z fitting connects to the idler pulley bracket. When I do that the whole outer plastic sheath moves which engages the idler pulley. So the inner cable must be seized somewhere.

Now I am trying to use a plastic bag filled with oil to gravity feed lube to the seized spot of the cable. Really doubt this will work...

Anyone know if I can just pull another cable off an old lawnmower....?


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## blacky (Oct 24, 2015)

The reason I ask about using any old cable is a new costs about $25 new...Isn't that high or am I just cheap?

For that price I'm tempted to just leave the cover off and yank the cable to engage the idler pulley every time. I mean, the blower starts up with the auger engaged...


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