# Weld cog to wheel axle?



## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

I have an Ariens 924044, where the wheel axle no longer gets driven by the attached cogwheel. The cogwheel is supposed to fit into tracks on the axle, but these (either on the cog or the axle, or both, have not dismantled it yet) are worn. I can get new ones, but these are rather pricy for such an old blower, and I now just want to sell it (because it is too big for where I live now), so I am thinking of welding the cogwheel to the axle instead. That would mean that it cannot be disassembled any more. At least not without an angle grinder... But are there any other disadvantages? The Ariens has a differential, which means I can only weld on one side of the cogwheel. I am guessing that will be more than strong enough though. Any thoughts?? 

Have attached a couple of pics. One is the bottom of the blower, with the intended weld spot inside the red circle. The other is how this is supposed to look dismantled (stole this pic from another thread in here) when tracks are not worn.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I have a feeling that those chains contributed, continually shaking and pounding the machine, instead of a smooth drive.

If it was me, I would repair it correctly, and then put on some Snow Hogs and get rid of those chains.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

You mean the chains on the wheels?? Those wheels are too slippery to use without them... And, like I wrote, I just want to fix this as quickly and cheaply as possible (i.e. I am not going to buy new wheels...), and am merely asking if welding it like described would negatively impact anything other than not being able to disassemble without an axle grinder later.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

If you want to jerry rig it and let someone else deal with it later, than by all means weld it and pass it on.

Of course those wheels are to slippery, there lawn tires, not snow tires like Snow Hogs, meant for snow.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

So OP what you're really asking is if you can improperly repair this machine just enough so that it works, and then pass it on to some unsuspecting buyer.

No, you can't do that. Not without full disclosure anyhow... at least in my book.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

What's with the hostility guys? I am asking a rather simple (I thought...) technical question of the durability and practicability of a not quite according to spec repair. The blower is 40 years old. Getting the parts would probably cost me way more than the blower is worth after fixing it, if I can even get my hands on them. Since I am not located in the US, those parts are hard to come by. The parts alone will cost me close to $300, add shipping and customs to that, and it's way more than the entire blower is worth. 

As for the wheels, it has had those wheels its entire 40 years lifetime, and have worked nicely the five or so years I have had it. Of course a newer blower with new design and new wheels will work better, but this is what is was equipped with (for snow, not for lawn, it's a snowblower, not a lawn mower...) from the factory in the late 70's. The blower, apart from this described wear, seems to be working fine, which in my mind tells me that the quality of this thing is rather good, and hopefully a "quick and dirty" repair is still going to last years or even decades, given that the welder does a nice job. 

And since you are both assuming (without knowing me) that I will simply "pass it on to an unsuspecting buyer", I can only try to reassure you that I would never do that. If anything, I am too honest about the stuff I sell, telling people about every little blemish I know about. And I didn't ask about the ethical issue, I am asking if anybody know about any other practical/technical issues with doing what I am proposing. It seems pretty straight forward to me doing the fix, and like I said, the only major drawback I can see is that it (the right hand axle) cannot be fully disassembled without using an angle grinder. What I am asking is if this could impair the diff somehow, or that such a repair wouldn't be strong enough, or similar technical stuff. Can you please stay on topic?


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Everybody on here wants to fix things right and put things back as original. No one minds jury rigging something if it's temporary or removable. However welding is permanent and if it does not work out, your screwed and no one wants to be responsible telling you to go ahead and do it. I agree with them. But you made a good point, the machine is old, the parts are expensive, and probably somewhere down the road you will sell the machine for parts when it's no longer viable as a snowblower. With that intention, it makes sense to go ahead and weld, use it, then when it's junk, put it up for sale. But don't mislead the buyer because no one removes the bottom cover before they buy a blower.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks. I know it's permanent... However, as it stands now, the machine is useless. With a (cheap) weld, it may be perfectly ok for years to come. It's the "may" I am interested about... Do I miss something in the workings of the diff when I think this is technically ok to do? Otherwhise I'll just sell it for parts I guess...


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Sounds to me like the left wheel bearing is so BADLY WORN it's letting the differential SLIP, or the secondary gear reduction chain is worn and stretched allowing that gear to slip.

I've NEVER seen the axle ends strip at the differential connections, and only one differential fail internally.

There is always the first time for everything, but without pixx from the actual machine we are working on there is just speculations. Addey can you please post up actual pictures of what you think the problem is. 
I'm sure we can get your machine up and running, but first we have to find out what is actually worn or broken to continue forward with advice for proper repair.

P.S. A location of where you are can also be helpful, a willing member that is near you can assist in the diagnosis and repair.


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## Ian Ariens 924 (Dec 22, 2015)

My 2 cents, find a used same model snowblower with bad motor and scavenge the parts you need,or buy some used parts on ebay.
If you weld it,it may be permanent, then you want take it off to repair something else and you’re in trouble.
I’m sure someone here and close to you can come up with the parts needed.

Hope this helps

Also, reread your post, if you were in my area,I’d buy your 924044 , 10 hp 32”,
I love the old big ones,around here they are all gone to the scrap heep from people not wanting to repair,they just buy new.
I have had a few of them,they are great units.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

If you're getting skipping/jumping in the transmission, I'd just make certain of the cause, before welding parts together. I had an older Ariens that would sometimes skip a tooth. As I recall, it was loose meshing at the gear that contacts the outside of the differential. 

It's possible that the skipping might just be from a worn-out bushings, which are allowing gears to move away from each other, and slip. 

Those teeth between the differential and the axle shouldn't really get much wear. They don't continually move past each other, the way that gear teeth do. They should mesh once, when the axle is slid into the differential, and then pretty much just sit there, engaged with each other. 

So I guess I'd make sure that something else isn't causing the problem, before welding those together. Check all the gears for play and movement away from each other, look for gear teeth with a worn profile, etc.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks for the replies! Well, since I haven't dismantled it (other than taking off the bottom lid), I really can't be 100% sure. But what I see is that the wheel axle turns without resistance inside the differential cog. So the (outside) gears of the diff don't slip at all. Please see attached image; the axle turns freely inside #34. I'll see if I can make a video to show what I mean (if I can add short video clips here?). Worn-out bushings could sound right, if LH and RH axles are too far apart, that would of course make them slip. I guess I could test this by checking for possible sideways movement of the wheels/axles?

I'm located in the southeast of Norway. Perhaps time to update my profile


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

43128 said:


> if you weld it then sell it that makes you an *******. fix it right or sell it as is


Glad to see you read the rest of what I wrote as well... As it stands now, the blower is completely useless, and I am not going to spend $4-500 to fix it, as that would be more than I could get for a fully functional blower. If the fault is what I think (which I now have to check, since the last two guys actually had constructive feedback), welding it will perhaps make it last for several years, but _of course_ I wouldn't sell it without telling what I had done.



Ian Ariens 924 said:


> Also, reread your post, if you were in my area,I’d buy your 924044 , 10 hp 32”,
> I love the old big ones,around here they are all gone to the scrap heep from people not wanting to repair,they just buy new.
> I have had a few of them,they are great units.


Yeah, I have thoroughly enjoyed owning it, and like the look of it as well  Pic attached! Doesn't look too shabby for a late 70's model. I guess Norway is a bit too far away from Ontario


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Man, that looks like a well maintained unit. I would certainly fix it .... cant buy that quality anymore. I have 2 Ariens, 24 inch, and they are rock solid ...


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I have that same blower......love it....a keeper.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Wow, that looks to be in really nice condition! What's the black box on top of the engine? A starter battery? 

In the US, anyways, most machines with electric start need to be plugged into an electrical outlet. I think battery-powered starters are more common in Canada, from what I've read. 

Also, just thinking out loud, I wonder if there is another way to address your problem, without permanently welding the axle to the differential. If the axle's teeth are worn down, maybe the teeth could be welded up again, to add some of the missing metal, to let them grab properly. 

Or perhaps you could weld a sleeve (a hollow cylinder) to the mating female piece in the differential. The sleeve would stick out from the differential, and would fit around the axle. You could then drill a hole through the sleeve, and the axle, and put a bolt through the holes (drilling the hole in the sleeve before actually welding it to the differential would be easier). 

The bolt would lock the two together, like the shear pins on the augers. But you could still remove the axle, by just removing the bolt. 

Heck, even if you didn't like the idea of using a bolt, you could still weld on a sleeve to the differential, then weld the sleeve to the axle. If it had to be cut off in the future, you'd be grinding out a weld on the sleeve, rather than grinding right at the differential.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

addey said:


> What's with the hostility guys? I am asking a rather simple (I thought...) technical question of the durability and practicability of a not quite according to spec repair...



Didn't mean to sound hostile, sorry... 

Also see now you're new, :welcome:

Understand now your intentions are good, but as the guys say welding is gonna make big issues down the road concerning other repairs.

I wonder (if the gear slipping is the problem) if you could cut a new keyway somehow and then maybe retain the gear on it with a collar on each side. That could get it going again without compromising the ability to disassemble in the future.


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## SimplicityAlan (Jan 7, 2014)

Find a welder who knows what he’s doing and have a quality permanent weld done. I value my time and know when it’s time to move forward. It’s a forty year old snowblower. Your first paragraph states it’s larger than you need. Fix it , tell / show the buyer what’s been done and go from there.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Too Bad You're Not Local to Me. I have Parts.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

addey said:


> Thanks for the replies! Well, since I haven't dismantled it (other than taking off the bottom lid), I really can't be 100% sure. But what I see is that the wheel axle turns without resistance inside the differential cog. So the (outside) gears of the diff don't slip at all. Please see attached image; the axle turns freely inside #34. I'll see if I can make a video to show what I mean (if I can add short video clips here?). Worn-out bushings could sound right, if LH and RH axles are too far apart, that would of course make them slip. I guess I could test this by checking for possible sideways movement of the wheels/axles?
> 
> I'm located in the southeast of Norway. Perhaps time to update my profile


With the machine up on the bucket and in the service position, bottom pan off... Lock the knob #43 into the positraction position and rotate the wheels....,

Now see where your problem is. With the knob locked in positraction that big gear number 34 should rotate with the wheels, then mesh with the secondary gear reduction setup, which will turn the hex shaft that has the friction wheel. 

Please let us know your findings.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Well, thanks to you guys, I have learned quite a lot  I actually thought the cog was just that, a "dumb" cogwheel, while it's actually a full-blown differential. 



RedOctobyr said:


> It's possible that the skipping might just be from a worn-out bushings, which are allowing gears to move away from each other, and slip.
> 
> Those teeth between the differential and the axle shouldn't really get much wear. They don't continually move past each other, the way that gear teeth do. They should mesh once, when the axle is slid into the differential, and then pretty much just sit there, engaged with each other.
> 
> So I guess I'd make sure that something else isn't causing the problem, before welding those together. Check all the gears for play and movement away from each other, look for gear teeth with a worn profile, etc.


You are completely correct. Upon further examination, the fault isn't what I thought it would be, the teeth are stuck where they are supposed to be, and are not slipping. However, it is moving almost without resistance inside the differential, and by turning one wheel, the other isn't moving. On the diffs I have been used to (cars...), the other wheel turns in the opposite direction. Is this diff supposed to work the same way? You see, since I have had the blower, it has only pulled on the right hand wheel, and since the diff locking bolt on the left wheel has been missing, I always thought that was how it was supposed to work, but now I start thinking that it is actually supposed to pull on both wheels all the time, and that the bolt only locks the diff. Which would make more sense, now that I think about it lain: I did make a few videos, but can't seem to attach them. I'll see if I can upload them somewhere else... 



RedOctobyr said:


> Wow, that looks to be in really nice condition! What's the black box on top of the engine? A starter battery?


Thanks, I've tried to keep it tidy! Yep, starter battery. Which doesn't work anymore, because it always starts on the second pull, so I haven't used the battery in years. I snipped away the rest of your message, as it seems that the problem is in the diff itself. 



Jackmels said:


> Too Bad You're Not Local to Me. I have Parts.


I'd be willing to pay for shipping, if it now turns out to be only the diff that's broken. Could you PM me?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

addey said:


> You are completely correct. Upon further examination, the fault isn't what I thought it would be, the teeth are stuck where they are supposed to be, and are not slipping. However, it is moving almost without resistance inside the differential, and by turning one wheel, the other isn't moving. On the diffs I have been used to (cars...), the other wheel turns in the opposite direction. Is this diff supposed to work the same way? You see, since I have had the blower, it has only pulled on the right hand wheel, and since the diff locking bolt on the left wheel has been missing, I always thought that was how it was supposed to work, but now I start thinking that it is actually supposed to pull on both wheels all the time, and that the bolt only locks the diff. Which would make more sense, now that I think about it lain: I did make a few videos, but can't seem to attach them. I'll see if I can upload them somewhere else...


You are correct. They way those differentials work is when you spin one wheel the other wheel spins the opposite direction. Under normal use both wheels will turn. If one wheel looses traction that wheel will spin. It works just like a car.

If you lock it then the axle locks. Basically the longer side of the axle goes inside the shorter axle and sticks out the other side. The pin attaches to that longer axle and when you lock it that pin engages in 1 of 3 holes in a hub on the short axle. This effectively connects both axles as one and causes both wheels to turn together regardless of traction.

Just like a car, that diff should have a large ring gear on the outside and then on the inside under the riveted plates there should be one large gear on each side and then 3 small gears in between them.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Shryp said:


> You are correct. They way those differentials work is when you spin one wheel the other wheel spins the opposite direction. Under normal use both wheels will turn. If one wheel looses traction that wheel will spin. It works just like a car.
> 
> If you lock it then the axle locks. Basically the longer side of the axle goes inside the shorter axle and sticks out the other side. The pin attaches to that longer axle and when you lock it that pin engages in 1 of 3 holes in a hub on the short axle. This effectively connects both axles as one and causes both wheels to turn together regardless of traction.
> 
> Just like a car, that diff should have a large ring gear on the outside and then on the inside under the riveted plates there should be one large gear on each side and then 3 small gears in between them.


So when I turn one wheel and nothing happens with the other, I guess that's a pretty good indication the diff itself is broken?? Since I don't have the locking bolt on the left hand wheel hub, I can't check it locked...

Here's a video of turning the wheels, first the LH then RH. As you can see, almost nothing happens, and the opposite wheel does not move. https://vimeo.com/251613644



Shaw351 said:


> With the machine up on the bucket and in the service position, bottom pan off... Lock the knob #43 into the positraction position and rotate the wheels....,
> 
> Now see where your problem is. With the knob locked in positraction that big gear number 34 should rotate with the wheels, then mesh with the secondary gear reduction setup, which will turn the hex shaft that has the friction wheel.
> 
> Please let us know your findings.


Too bad I didn't see this before leaving for work this morning. The knob is missing, so can't do that. I did try to turn both wheels though, and they turn almost without friction inside #34, see vid.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I found this video. If you skip to about 3 minutes in it kind of shows how the differential and lock work.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks! I'll double check when I get home, but think that my diff doesn't work like that at all...


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

victoroleary said:


> you can try soaking it in a solvent like gasoline or something. i highly doubt the differential is internally bad but its possible. i bet theres some dried up grease in there causing something to stick


 Most likely the case here. Disassemble, clean it up, and grease with the recommend lube.


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## Frankrizzo (Dec 19, 2017)

You should use your money for another machine instead of repairing this one.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

Frankrizzo said:


> You should use your money for another machine instead of repairing this one.


 No, that's an awesome old machine. A tube of the correct grease is a lot cheaper.:crying:


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

jonnied12 said:


> No, that's an awesome old machine. A tube of the correct grease is a lot cheaper.:crying:


Indeed! If that is the case, and some soaking and greasing will get the diff working again, that would be fantastic! And even so, I have found a second hand diff for $100 or so, and very much considering fixing it if I can get it working for that price. That's not much more than the welder suggested, so I'd much rather do it properly.



victoroleary said:


> you can try soaking it in a solvent like gasoline or something. i highly doubt the differential is internally bad but its possible. i bet theres some dried up grease in there causing something to stick


How long would it have to soak? Would the gasoline get into the inside of the diff? I guess it is riveted shut, so worst case (if soaking/greasing doesn't do anything) I could drill out the rivets...


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

addey said:


> Indeed! If that is the case, and some soaking and greasing will get the diff working again, that would be fantastic! And even so, I have found a second hand diff for $100 or so, and very much considering fixing it if I can get it working for that price. That's not much more than the welder suggested, so I'd much rather do it properly.
> 
> 
> 
> How long would it have to soak? Would the gasoline get into the inside of the diff? I guess it is riveted shut, so worst case (if soaking/greasing doesn't do anything) I could drill out the rivets...


 Are you sure it doesn't have bolts on one side. If not, you could try drilling the rivets out. You may have to drill and tap for bolts to reassemble it.
The rivets you are seeing may be the shafts for the cog gears.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

The gas would definitely get inside the differential, it's not sealed. Rotating the differential (at least each axle individually) would help work it around, and maybe loosen things up. 

I don't remember if mine was riveted or bolted together, I kind of thought bolted, but it was a while ago.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

jonnied12 said:


> Are you sure it doesn't have bolts on one side. If not, you could try drilling the rivets out. You may have to drill and tap for bolts to reassemble it.
> The rivets you are seeing may be the shafts for the cog gears.


No, not 100% sure, but pretty much. This looks to be a replacement, and it has two circles of rivets. My guess is that the outer circle has the rivets holding the two sides together as well as fastening the outside cogs, while the inner circle has the shafts for the internal cog gears. As this is a spur diff, I guess it looks somewhat like this on the inside.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Get the locking knob assembly repaired so you will be able to have positraction and use the machine until you can get the new differential gear. I have seen those differential gears fail, but usually they lock up and you have positraction all the time regardless of locking knob position. There are not any user serviceable parts inside the differential, here is a picture to see what is there. I do not believe that soaking it in oil or gas to lubricate it will fix your problem, you must have a broken gear inside there to allow that to spin freely.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

PM Sent


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks Jack, I'll consider it.



Shaw351 said:


> Get the locking knob assembly repaired so you will be able to have positraction and use the machine until you can get the new differential gear. I have seen those differential gears fail, but usually they lock up and you have positraction all the time regardless of locking knob position. There are not any user serviceable parts inside the differential, here is a picture to see what is there. I do not believe that soaking it in oil or gas to lubricate it will fix your problem, you must have a broken gear inside there to allow that to spin freely.


Thanks for that pic, that helps a lot. It looks like the four pairs of smaller gears interact with each other (left and right hand side), but not with the entire width of the gear. I guess this could be a weak spot, if the gear pairs don't move each other any more, the centre gear will just spin its four small gears round and round... Got around to trying what you describe now, or at least by holding onto the hub so both wheels turned as if locked by the pin. Nothing, the diff doesn't move at all. Looks like a pretty good sign that the gears inside the diff are completely busted. I am definitely going to crack it open to have a look once I get around to dismantling it from the machine...


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

We want to see what you find when you tear it apart.opcorn:


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Definitely interested to see what you find. Something sounds weird with the differential. 

It's an open-differential design, which means it sends equal torque to both sides. But you said only your right-hand wheel is being driven. If we assumed that, for instance, your left-hand axle was broken, or there was otherwise no connection from the left-hand side of the differential, to the left wheel, then I would expect different symptoms. Especially with not having the differential locking-knob on the left wheel. 

If, hypothetically, the left axle was broken, the machine shouldn't really drive at all. The left axle would turn with no resistance, meaning that an equal amount of torque (very little) would go to the right axle. And therefore you wouldn't move. 

So whatever is wrong has presumably jammed-up the left-hand side of the differential, thus allowing it to actually send useful torque to the right wheel. But if this was the case, I'd expect the left wheel wouldn't turn at all, since its axle would be jammed at the differential output. So I am guessing that maybe something is jammed inside the differential, in the gears that would drive the left-hand axle. But that somehow the actual output for the left-hand axle is able to turn freely, since I think you said the left wheel can turn, it just doesn't receive any drive torque. 

My apologies if I misunderstood the symptoms. It will be interesting to hear what you find out.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Definitely interested to see what you find. Something sounds weird with the differential.
> 
> It's an open-differential design, which means it sends equal torque to both sides. But you said only your right-hand wheel is being driven. If we assumed that, for instance, your left-hand axle was broken, or there was otherwise no connection from the left-hand side of the differential, to the left wheel, then I would expect different symptoms. Especially with not having the differential locking-knob on the left wheel.
> 
> ...


Almost correct, but just to specify: It did drive the right-hand wheel only, now it drives none... The left-hand axle isn't broken either, as can be seen in the video it moves the diff about the same amount (very little... but it does move, so friction is not zero, just very small) as moving the right-hand axle. I have no idea how the diff could have driven the right-hand wheel only, and now driving none. I hope to get a crack at it this weekend, but I've never taken one of these apart, so not sure how much time I'm going to need. It looks pretty straight forward, I'm guessing removing the wheels, then removing the bearing retainers to be able to extract the drive axle. 

One more question to you gurus though: When doing this, the blower is lifted up on the blower housing. I think I recall to have read somewhere that the oil should be drained before doing this. Is this correct? I'm taking the fuel tank off, so that shouldn't be a problem, but do I need to remove the oil as well? I haven't done so for just tipping it up for a couple of minutes, but I guess when I'm doing this it will stand upright for hours, perhaps days or weeks until I can get a new diff.

Edit: A second question as well. My blower doesn't have an air filter or even an air filter box. Is it supposed to have that? If so, where could I get a hold of these?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I have left machines tipped up for service for multiple days without draining the oil. I *did* put plastic down under the machine, which was useful, because it did eventually leak 1 or 2 drops of oil. 

Most snowblowers do not have an air filter, so I would not worry about that. In a snowy environment, there is very little dust in the air, to damage the engine. And an air filter could get icy, and block air flow.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Great, thanks! With me ordering a diff from the States, that's going to take some time anyway, so perhaps I can just as well change the oil when I'm at it. **** this, now I'm looking for more things to fix on this old blower... fixing stuff is just too fun


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

addey said:


> **** this, now I'm looking for more things to fix on this old blower... fixing stuff is just too fun


And That Is How It Starts :devil:


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Hopefully there is a simple & free fix for the differential. 

But if not, there may be a welding option that still allows the machine to be disassembled. If you welded the 2 female sleeve axle outputs of the differential, to the differential body itself, you would effectively turn the differential into a large, dumb gear. 

You would lose the differential function, of course. But you could still remove the axles, and you would have a working machine, with 2 wheel drive, for the cost of bringing the differential somewhere, and having it welded. 

Whether this is worth it depends on the cost of a diff, the cost of welding, and how much you want the diff function (I really like it). I just figured I'd mention it as an option. 

To do the preparation work yourself, if you cleaned the oil & grease from the area, and removed the rust so it's shiny metal, I think the welding job would be pretty straightforward.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Hopefully there is a simple & free fix for the differential.
> 
> But if not, there may be a welding option that still allows the machine to be disassembled. If you welded the 2 female sleeve axle outputs of the differential, to the differential body itself, you would effectively turn the differential into a large, dumb gear.
> 
> ...


 Good idea! Though a good industrial welder could weld right through all that grease, rust and stuff. Ask me. I spent many hours laying in piles of grease welding under rolling mills in a factory. Just burn all that gunk off with a torch first, and go to town. 
I was always nervous about welding gas leaks on 12 in. gas pipes to the furnaces, but the leaks already had flames coming out anyway. That's how we knew they were leaking.
Back to our regular scheduled program.:grin:


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Nice, I'll defer to the people with more experience, obviously. Mine is just a 110V MIG unit, so I can't just burn through that kind of stuff, things need to be nice and clean before welding. 

addey, if you know someone with a welder, perhaps someone could do it for cheap or free, if you decided to take that approach. I was just trying to think of ways to make the job possibly cost less, if you had done most of the prep work, and the person just had to do the actual welding. If you were local I'd do it for you, but somehow I suspect that the plane ticket would cost more than replacing the differential.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks for the idea. Beats my previous idea of welding it to the axle! However, I have ordered a new (second hand) diff off of ebay, so that should be here some time before the summer (that's my experience ordering stuff in the States). And I still want to take the old diff apart, very curious to see exactly what the problem is, not sure I get it properly back together after doing that (but a welder might, of course!). Will have it up and running with a new diff for next winter at least! Have also ordered parts to fix the diff locknut, an additional key (lost mine a couple of years ago, have used one that doesn't really fit since), and am thinkin of getting it a new carb. With all that in place, and a good work-through with grease, paint and tlc, it should be as good as new! This stuff is addictive...


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Anyone got an idea, tips or tricks on how to get the axle off of the diff? Seems to be pretty stuck...


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

On my machine, I think there were roll pins through the axle, on the inside of the frame. Those, and anything similar, would need to be removed to allow the axles to slide out. Have those been removed, if your machine uses them? 

I don't recall having trouble removing the axles from the differential itself. Do you have the service manual for your machine? That might have a disassembly procedure.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> On my machine, I think there were roll pins through the axle, on the inside of the frame. Those, and anything similar, would need to be removed to allow the axles to slide out. Have those been removed, if your machine uses them?
> 
> I don't recall having trouble removing the axles from the differential itself. Do you have the service manual for your machine? That might have a disassembly procedure.


I just removed the flanged bearings supporting the wheel bearings on either side, so the axle is completely loose, but also completely stuck in the diff. I thought it was just a matter of sliding it out, but it seems to be corroded or something. I'm thinking of using the car's jack, just not sure where to attach it, or of I may break something... Perhaps inside of the hub cap against the tractor frame?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

It probably is rusted in, like you said. But in your video, it made me think that the parts looked coated in grease, so I hoped that would have prevented corrosion problems. 

Hopefully someone has a suggestion. You could maybe try using a wooden board, and laying it between the tractor frame, and the wheel. Then hit the inside of the board with a hammer, so it pushes out against the wheel, and tries to pull the axle out. The wheel could be removed, as well, so you could lay the board against the hub of the axle, where the wheel attaches. 

As I recall, the right axle protrudes through the other, at the left-hand side. Maybe you could try tapping on the protruding axle on the left, to help drive the right-hand axle out of the machine. But you might want to put some wood over the end of the axle before hitting it, to avoid deforming the end of the axle. If you make the right axle's diameter bigger at the end, due to hitting it directly, it may not be able to slide out properly through the other left axle. 

If it has grease fittings on the axle, maybe you could pump some grease in, case one is somehow rusted to the other? Sorry, not seeing your machine, and how exactly it's behaving at the moment, makes it a little more difficult to troubleshoot. And spraying penetrating oil where the axles go into the differential might help if they're corroded together.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Just had a bit of a late night epiphany... I have to remove the locknut hub! It is attached, on the LH wheel hub, but to the center part of the RH axle, so in essence it is keeping the two parts of the axle locked together. It has a pin going through it, which I think I need to press out, if I can find a proper tool (hammer and awl didn't work...). Glad I thought of that before attacking it with the car jack


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

The pin locks through the left wheel hub, and through the right axle? If I'm following correctly, that would force the two sides to rotate together, and would prevent the differential from being able to do its job. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you're describing. 

Note that some split pins on Ariens machines (at least on mine) are tapered. You may need to check closely if both ends are the same size. If one end is larger diameter, drive out from the small end. Otherwise it would just jam tighter as you hammered it from the large end. 

Also, I got a set of roll pin punches, like these. They have a small raised bump in the middle of the punch face, which helps the punch remain centered on the hollow portion of the pin, while hitting the punch. They are by no means essential, but I find them helpful. 
https://www.amazon.com/Grip-Roll-Pin-Punch-Gunsmithing/dp/B003L7HOMG/ref=sr_1_9?s=hi&ie=UTF8


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> The pin locks through the left wheel hub, and through the right axle? If I'm following correctly, that would prevent the differential from being able to do its job. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting what you're describing.


Not through the left wheel hub, but at the left wheel hub. I suck at explaining... It's located in the center of the left wheel, attached to the RH axle, the part of it going inside the LH axle. The pin (that I am missing) inside the locknut hub locks to the left wheel hub, thereby locking the diff. 



RedOctobyr said:


> Note that some split pins on Ariens machines (at least on mine) are tapered. You may need to check if both ends are the same size. If one end is larger diameter, drive out from the other end. Otherwise it would just jam tighter as you hammered it.


Thanks. Figured that out after reading a bit in some other threads in here. 



RedOctobyr said:


> Also, I got a set of roll pin punches, like these. They have a small raised bump in the middle of the punch face, which helps the punch remain centered on the hollow portion of the pin, while hitting the punch. They are by no means essential, but I find them helpful.
> https://www.amazon.com/Grip-Roll-Pin-Punch-Gunsmithing/dp/B003L7HOMG/ref=sr_1_9?s=hi&ie=UTF8


Thanks, I'll have a look. Tomorrow... it's 01:15 here now...


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Yes, that lockout hub needs to be removed. There is a pin going through it and it does indeed hold both halves of the axle together like you are thinking. I believe the above poster was also correct in stating that the pin is tapered so one way will be out and the other way will make it tighter. I knocked mine out with a normal hammer and punch.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Here's a pixx of axle setup removed. There is a small roll pin on the right hand side axle located at the bearing. You also must remove the left hand side positraction locking assembly to disassemble axle.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

This is getting frustrating... I don't get that tapered pin out. Have gotten myself a set of punches, even gone so far as to use the sledgehammer now, but it won't move a bit. Just hoping I hit it the right way, as far as I can measure, it's only about 0,15 mm difference in diameter between the two ends of the pin. 

So now I am thinking about trying to press it out. I have built a press to be used with a hydraulic jack, so if I can manage to maneouvre it correctly next to the blower it could possibly work. Other than that I'm at a loss... Don't really want to drill it out, if I don't drill exactly right, I'll ruin the axle as well


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Make sure you support the bottom of the axle while you are hammering on it. I would hit it a bit and if it doesn't come out try hitting the other side.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

I have supported it, but perhaps not well enough... Worth to try out making something that I'm sure won't move.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Wow, sorry to hear that it's being so difficult. My current machine had a lot of rusted bolts, some of which broke off, but the pins all came out alright. 

Since you're trying to get it out of a shaft, could you press it out with just a single, self-contained, device? You can hook something behind the shaft, when trying to press the pin out. Something like a C-clamp, which might need a hole drilled in the solid area, to provide clearance for the pin that is already sticking out. Then turn the threaded portion to try and press out the pin. This avoids hammering on the shaft and frame, risking damage to other components. 

I did some quick Googling to try and find a picture showing what I'm proposing, and found someone showing a better idea. He used a C-clamp, with a ratchet socket slipped onto one side, to provide clearance for the pin. That's a better idea than cutting into the clamp, to provide clearance. Then tighten the clamp: 

Removing the "bitch pin" without using a hammer

And if it won't move, it may be worth trying pushing in the other direction. If it's tapered, once it gets tight, it really won't want to move any further in that direction.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks for the tip Red, that is actually more or less what I had in mind to do with my home made press setup, but this idea is of course much simpler (the press is rather big...).


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Hey addey.....

On my difficult ones I remove the tire, rest flat portion of the axle on a cinder / cement block, then hold punch driver with a pair of pliers as to not accidentally hit my hand, then use a BFH to hit the pin out. Usually pops right out with a few whacks. By supporting the axle all your hammering force is directed to the pin and lost in movement of the complete assembly. 

Also.... the original pin might of been changed out or broken and replaced with a regular roll pin and will come out either way as they are not tapered. 
Please keep us updated on the progress.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Well, finally some progress!! I got the pin out! I did two things at the same time, so no idea which of the two finally did the trick. I drilled a 3mm hole in the smaller end of the pin. Not too deep, just about a centimeter or so. My thought was that this would release the pressure on the sides of the hole a bit. Then I heated the entire thing up pretty well with a gas torch. Gave the pin a few whacks with a standard hammer, and out it came. So now just waiting for the stuff that's in the mail. 

As for the diff, I haven't opened it yet. Will post pictures as soon as I do...


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Ok, so I tore the diff apart, and as I suspected, the part driven by the axle doesn't have any teeth left at all... See pic, it's supposed to have teeth on the outside. All the small gears seem to be intact, only the one in the center is broken.

Another thing is that I noticed that my machine is supposedly a 924034, not ..44, so it's from 78, not 79. At least according to the very hard to read tag on the back of it (see pic, it's a bit easier to read than on the photo...). I hope that doesn't mean that the diff I've ordered (as well as the locknut hub parts) won't fit. I don't think so, it looks like they have the exact same diff setup.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I'm glad you're making progress. Wow, that gear is just destroyed. It's too bad it likely won't be a simple/cheap fix, at least not without another one of those gears. 

I hope your new parts arrive soon!


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Those differential gears are the same, not to worry. Easy fix now that you have it apart.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Actually, it's not... I just got my replacement diff yesterday, and it didn't fit. The replacement I bought is for a 1 1/8" axle (which the 924044 has), while the 924034 has a 7/8" axle. Just comparing the two diffs I can see that it makes sense to have the bigger one for a 10hp blower, the smaller dimension could very well be why it broke (and why Ariens decided to go for a bigger one next year). Sooo... does anybody need a 1 1/8" diff?? Coming up on eBay soon  

Fortunately, all the other parts I've bought (locknut, pins and springs for the locknut) are the same on the two axle diameters. I have been thinking though... If I can't sell it, I'¨m just a spare axle and some bearings away from replacing the whole thing  But not yet, have spent more than enough money on this thing now...


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Ugh, that sucks, I'm sorry  And if the broken part is what mates with the axle, then you can't even swap parts between the two differentials. Maybe someone has a suggestion for an inexpensive source for the proper differential. 

You might be able to have yours welded, to make it just act like a single "dumb" gear. But unless you know someone with a welder, that solution still isn't free, and you'd lose the differential functionality, which is a feature that I like.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Sorry for the false hope I gave ya, I must of been looking at the wrong schematic breakdown. Ariens has all those models in the one manual, easy to scroll past the correct page. 
If the diameter of the differential is the same you can upgrade to the bigger axles as you were thinking. 
Guess I'm spoiled here in America with just about any part readily available. Don't get depressed, with a little effort that machine will be around another 40 years.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Thanks for the concern guys, but I'm good. I have already ordered the correct one (which was less than half the price of the bigger one, with less shipping costs and hopefully no custom fees either), so now I just have to sell the one I have left. The outer diameter is the same, so they could be switched. However, I would need a new axle, new bearings and bearing retainers... so nope, at least not until the new diff breaks down. Which hopefully will be never  

And with all this, I am seriously considering not selling the blower after it has been fixed. Even if it is way too big for my need...



Shaw351 said:


> Sorry for the false hope I gave ya, I must of been looking at the wrong schematic breakdown. Ariens has all those models in the one manual, easy to scroll past the correct page.


Tell me about it, that was the whole reason for me getting the two mixed up in the first place!!


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Here are the manuals to download for your machine, free from ariens .click on the view/download button for each one. Handy to have, JUST make sure your on the correct page for your particular model. Machine numbers are located on each page at the top. 

Ariens Order Owners Manuals


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Finally! Success! The diff arrived earlier this week, the parts I needed for the locknut hub arrived two days ago. With the wrong size roll pin (i got a 3,4 mm/0,134 in pin, the hole is 2,3 mm/0,09 in, that just doesn't fit...), so I had to use a split pin. I guess that'll hold until I get a proper size roll pin. 

So, for the first time since I bought it, the blower actually runs straight and doesn't pull to the side. Guess the diff has been broken the entire time I've had it. I originally intended to sell it once this was mended. Now I'm not so sure... I'm thinking about upgrading the chute, adding an impeller kit, fixing the electrical starter (i.e. getting a new battery)... Kind of addictive lain: Also, when my new keys arrived, I found out they didn't fit. I think it's because a key has been broken inside the ignition, not that it's a different ignition... so anybody have an idea on how to get part of a key out??


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

If broken part is not corroded or jammed in there....
Small pick or needle tweezers, sometimes if space allows I grind down a hacksaw blade up to the edge of the teeth and use that to dig out a broken key.


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## cole286 (Feb 20, 2018)

I have read this with great interest and have this question: how do you grease the differential internal gears? The zerk fitting on the left axle just lubes the short axle shaft and I don't see how grease would get inside the differential.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I don't recall hearing many discussions of lubing the differential internals. 

My hope would be that it's pretty much ok for life, since it really doesn't see an awful lot of use (pretty much just has its gears moving when you're turning around), and because it's rivited shut. I've never tried to lubricate mine, hopefully someone can chime in, if they have. 

I guess maybe you could try dribbling some oil in through the side or something.


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## cole286 (Feb 20, 2018)

I am rebuilding a 1979? 924039 and would like to do as much as possible on the diff.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

When you grease the left axle some of the grease is forced into the center of the differential and distributed from there. On some of them I've drilled a 1/16th hole and forced grease in there with a needle tip. Sorry I do not have a pixx of one, but will next time.


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## cole286 (Feb 20, 2018)

Thanks Shaw351. I'll do the hole and needle grease tip.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

When I took out my broken one I also tore it apart. It's riveted shut, so you'll have some problems getting a lot of grease into it... except perhaps by doing what Shaw suggests, drilling a hole. I am curious why you would want to do it though... it is obviously designed to keep the grease inside so that no replenishment should be necessary. Do you hear grinding or anything that makes you want to grease it??


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

cole286 said:


> Thanks Shaw351. I'll do the hole and needle grease tip.


Your Welcome, always glad to share ideas to help others doing their repairs.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

addey said:


> When I took out my broken one I also tore it apart. It's riveted shut, so you'll have some problems getting a lot of grease into it... except perhaps by doing what Shaw suggests, drilling a hole. I am curious why you would want to do it though... it is obviously designed to keep the grease inside so that no replenishment should be necessary. Do you hear grinding or anything that makes you want to grease it??


I choose to grease for the reason old grease gets thick and or hard and can cause friction / dragging inside the differential gear assembly. 
By design it should never be a problem ...... But chances are on these 30+ year old machines there has been a serious Lack of lubrication. 
Not on purpose... but by previous owners not knowing proper maintenance techniques.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I think the hole idea is interesting, but I'd be a little concerned about introducing metal chips, from the drilled hole. A well intentioned action could potentially actually make things worse. 

If the axle grease fitting allows getting some grease in there, that's at least safer.


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## cole286 (Feb 20, 2018)

Well, I elected to disassemble the differential, remove all the thick 30+ year old grease, clean all and repack and reassemble. Turns a lot smoother now! Used 10-32 machine screws and peened the threads past the nuts, so it will stay together.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

I have run into the old grease in the Diff's too. I usually just remove that Diff and set it in a little pan of gas to break it up, for about a week, draining it every other day, as I service the rest of the unit. After a week, i'll blow it out with air and spray it down with brake cleaner. Usually, after assembly and the axles have been cleaned up, greasing the left axle will force the new grease inside to keep it lubed. I use the marine grease and have had good success.

GLuck, Jay


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

Just a quick visit to my old thread to give a short update on the blower. Since I changed the diff, it's been working perfectly. I also managed to get the old key fragment out, so the new one can be used. I just got it a new starter battery, so now the electric start also works perfectly. I had to disassemble the manual starter pull mechanism (no idea what it's called…) because it wouldn't catch, but after greasing it up it also works as it should. The only thing now is that it runs a bit "off", and threatens to stop every now and then, so I guess I have to clean and adjust the carb. But still, this 41 year old blower is still a beast, and since I've now moved house I still need the size. If anyone remembers the beginning of this thread, I contemplated selling it because I didn't need such a big blower. Just this morning we had 15 cm of _very _wet snow that it handled with ease. Will be keeping it for sure!


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I agree with Shaw....something else slipping....wheel bearing, or the adjustment for the chains can be tightened ( the upper sprocket can be loosened and bring both chains tight again) ...I have a feeling the chains are skipping over the sprockets.


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## addey (Jan 4, 2018)

cranman said:


> I agree with Shaw....something else slipping....wheel bearing, or the adjustment for the chains can be tightened ( the upper sprocket can be loosened and bring both chains tight again) ...I have a feeling the chains are skipping over the sprockets.


Like I said… old thread  The problem was the diff that was torn to pieces. Have a new diff in now, blower works perfectly!


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