# Burning off auger belts on 24" 2-Stage 247.886640



## klevrgrafix

I have a Craftsman 5HP 24" Two-Stage Snow Thrower that I bought used off a friend a few years ago for a couple hundred bucks. The machine has done nothing but make me happy until last week when I broke an auger belt. No big deal, I thought, so I called a local parts store that happened to stock the replacement 35" 0430A belts. I picked up a pair for $28 and came home and put the new one on - No big deal. Well, what came next kind of surprised me... The new belts have nubs (teeth) on them and the main shaft coming from the motor constantly spins when the motor is running. Well, consequently, this chews on the belt... Which doesn't make sense. When you engage the auger, the belt tightens and spins and turns the auger as it should, but it makes a hellacious noise as it's ripping and burning through the teeth on the belt. Since I had a second belt (that's the same) I figured I may as well, let it burn and maybe when the teeth are gone, it'd run like it used to. It did... For about 5 minutes. The new belt is now toothless and stretched enough to pop off from around the pulleys.

I've attached a video I just made to help you understand what I'm talking about, if I'm unclear.






Why is this doing this? It makes no sense how it's set up - It almost seems as though there should be some kind of clutch built into that main pulley and shaft coming off the motor. 

Thanks in advance for the help!!!


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## Kiss4aFrog

That is the way they are all designed and usually work fine for many years. It's also why you can't use a regular automotive fan belt on a snowblower, it WILL BURN UP.
You can buy the belt at an auto store but it needs to be specifically a lawn and garden or power rated belt as they do slip without burning.

That noise might be something else like the tensioner pulleys bearing going out. Try just spinning that tensioner with the belt away from it and see if it's grinding or kind of "ringing" as it spins.

The belt that broke, other than breaking did it look like it wore normally ?

BTW .. the ribs are just so the belt can bend around a small pulley and still have plenty of grip so it doesn't slip.


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## klevrgrafix

Kiss4aFrog said:


> That is the way they are all designed and usually work fine for many years. It's also why you can't use a regular automotive fan belt on a snowblower, it WILL BURN UP.
> You can buy the belt at an auto store but it needs to be specifically a lawn and garden or power rated belt as they do slip without burning.
> 
> That noise might be something else like the tensioner pulleys bearing going out. Try just spinning that tensioner with the belt away from it and see if it's grinding or kind of "ringing" as it spins.
> 
> The belt that broke, other than breaking did it look like it wore normally ?
> 
> BTW .. the ribs are just so the belt can bend around a small pulley and still have plenty of grip so it doesn't slip.


Thank you for the response! It's actually a MTD belt made for the Craftsman replacement that I guess is slipping. Someone else had mentioned to make sure the belt was tight enough, but I had the tensioner on there pretty tight to the point where I was afraid I was going to break the spring. I have a friend coming over tonight (for a 2nd set of hands) to help put the new belt on and I'll see if I can tighten it up enough to keep it from slipping. I'll also check on the tensioner pulley as well to see if it spins rather freely without noise.

As far as the first belt that broke, it looks worn normally with the exception of all the ribs that were gone... Unless that is normal since the belts hanging around a spinning pulley all the time.


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## Toro-8-2-4

klevrgrafix said:


> Thank you for the response! It's actually a MTD belt made for the Craftsman replacement that I guess is slipping. Someone else had mentioned to make sure the belt was tight enough, but I had the tensioner on there pretty tight to the point where I was afraid I was going to break the spring. I have a friend coming over tonight (for a 2nd set of hands) to help put the new belt on and I'll see if I can tighten it up enough to keep it from slipping. I'll also check on the tensioner pulley as well to see if it spins rather freely without noise.
> 
> As far as the first belt that broke, it looks worn normally with the exception of all the ribs that were gone... Unless that is normal since the belts hanging around a spinning pulley all the time.


 I think you just solved your problem wit the statement above. The tensioner sounds like it is set up too tight when engaged. You can back off the tension with the cable adjustment screw(on my machine yours may be different) You only need it tighten it enough so that the belt does not slip. Over tightening it will cause premature wear as you know about. Back it off quite a bit and see what happens. Even if the control cable seems to have a lot of slack, that is ok. Over time the cable can stretch and this is what you have to do to set it up properly.

You got a good price on that MTD Belt. I know Lowes sells one for about $32.

Good luck!


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## klevrgrafix

Well, just put on the 2nd new MTD belt and I tried tighter tension and loose tension. Looser tension worked a lot better with no screaming but it still wore the belt down to about a 1/4" thick rubber band. It's boggling my mind because I don't understand what's burning through the belt! I'm wondering if these MTD belts are junk. I've never seen anything burn through a belt this fast!

The 2nd stage of the auger turns rather freely by hand both directions...

The only other thing I know to try would be the other v-belt I have coming in the mail that's not an MTD belt. Other than that, I have no idea and I guess I'll have to try a shop around here...


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## Shryp

Your belt looked too loose when you engaged the auger.

You should engage it with the engine off and push on the middle of the belt. There shouldn't be much give it it. Maybe 1/4 - 1/2" at most. Also make sure your impeller bearings isn't shot. Are you sure you routed the belt around the brake correctly?

Try a local Tractor Supply if you have one nearby, they have belts for around $6.


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## 94EG8

I can't see the belt guide in the video, but if it's not in the right place the belt will do what it's doing. You want it about 1/4" away from the pulley.


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## klevrgrafix

Shryp said:


> Your belt looked too loose when you engaged the auger.
> 
> You should engage it with the engine off and push on the middle of the belt. There shouldn't be much give it it. Maybe 1/4 - 1/2" at most. Also make sure your impeller bearings isn't shot. Are you sure you routed the belt around the brake correctly?
> 
> Try a local Tractor Supply if you have one nearby, they have belts for around $6.


I didn't have the auger fully engaged in the video because at that time, I didn't realize the noise was coming from the belt slipping. The belt is tight when the auger drive is depressed and regardless of the tension, after about 5 minutes, the belt is worn down to about the thickness of a larger rubber band.


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## klevrgrafix

94EG8 said:


> I can't see the belt guide in the video, but if it's not in the right place the belt will do what it's doing. You want it about 1/4" away from the pulley.


I'm not aware of a belt guide on this.


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## Toro-8-2-4

Shryp said:


> Your belt looked too loose when you engaged the auger.
> 
> You should engage it with the engine off and push on the middle of the belt. There shouldn't be much give it it. Maybe 1/4 - 1/2" at most. Also make sure your impeller bearings isn't shot. Are you sure you routed the belt around the brake correctly?
> 
> Try a local Tractor Supply if you have one nearby, they have belts for around $6.


 
I took another look at the video and the idler/clutch travel did not look like much. On my machine it travels much more to engage the auger.

Shryp in his infinite wisdom may have it here. The belt needs to go underneath the brake mechanism on the lower side of the auger pulley. If you did routed it over it, that explains a lot.

Tip the machine up on the bucket and remove the lower pan to get a very clear view of the brake mechanism. The brake is normally on. Meaning, when the auger lever is NOT engaged a spring pulls the brake against the auger pulley to stop it. When you install a new belt you have to release the brake. Usually by pressing the auger lever.

In the video it looks like the belt is too short and little travel is needed to engage it. Routing the belt on top of the brake would effectively do that. It also explains why the cogs on the belt wore down as you explained.

Take a look from underneath and you will quickly understand it.

Get your new MTD belt installed correctly around the pulleys. This is spec'ed for a cogged belt. If you get an aftermarket belt it will be a Number 3VX-350. If you use a standard 3L or 3/8 wide V-belt the thickness is a little less and it will probably not last as long. The cogs add life by reducing reverse bending fatigue imposed by a back side idler.

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## klevrgrafix

*Problem solved - I'm a moron.*

Guess what? There is, in fact, a braking mechanism under the auger pulley... It's not readily seen at night (or when you don't remove the bottom cover) to route the belt around. Yep, that'll burn belts off in no time.












Thanks to everyone for their help! Luckily, it was only a $30 mistake, but one that I'll never make again.


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## Kiss4aFrog

I don't know any of us that hasn't had to "pay" for some of our DIY knowledge with a mistake here and there.

If you're smart enough to come here and ask questions and listen to the answers you are way ahead of the curve. 

Good to know it was something simple.


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## all3939

*It's called "A LEARNING CURVE"*



klevrgrafix said:


> *Problem solved - I'm a moron.*
> 
> Guess what? There is, in fact, a braking mechanism under the auger pulley... It's not readily seen at night (or when you don't remove the bottom cover) to route the belt around. Yep, that'll burn belts off in no time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their help! Luckily, it was only a $30 mistake, but one that I'll never make again.


I usually just remove the upper bolts from both sides of the auger housing where the tractor splits. Let it hinge there with the lower bolts still attached but loose, all the while I route the belt to where it belongs and around the brake mechanism. That way you have full access and control of whats going on.


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## Toro-8-2-4

Glad you solved it and 30 dollars was cheaper than a trip to the OPE shop.

I don't know how many times I wasted time, broke things and had to re-do stuff because I tried to cut corners or do it fast.
It is the school of hard knocks. 
Happy snow throwing.


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## klevrgrafix

Haha! True!

Thanks again, guys!


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## 94EG8

klevrgrafix said:


> I'm not aware of a belt guide on this.


They all have one, other than some MTDs where the belt cover acts as a guide, on those models the cover must me on, even for testing or the belts will destroy themselves.


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## storm2410

My 2008 TB Storm 2410 has the same setup. My problem was I lost the spring that held the idler pulley back. It would engage the belt without the control being held down. Ordered a new one and everything works like it should


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## markalexaner

I know that this is a very old thread but I wanted to make a comment on this post.

I have a 8HP MTD and watched about half a dozen videos on YouTube about how to replace the auger belts on the machine. I felt confident this would be a 5 minute job after watching the videos. Not one video talked about the brake when you release the handle.

The videos showed that you could remove all 3 nuts on the one side of the engine/blower assembly and only loosen the 3 nuts on the other side and open up the two pieces so you could insert the 2 belts with ease. 
When I originally replaced the belts I did notice that the front (forward) belt was ever so slightly tighter than the rear belt but I thought it was just a anomaly that would work itself out. Before putting the machine back together, I double checked the belts to see that they were exactly the same size, so this was not the issue. I put the machine back together.

After replacing my belts (my machine is a 2 stage, 2 belt system) I burned out one of the new belts in about 10 seconds of testing. There was a nice mound of black fine rubber dust under my snowblower sitting on the driveway! lol

I couldn't understand what the issue was so I googled MTD snowblower belt burning out and came to this forum, read the post herein and had a eureka moment!

I went back to my machine, removed all 6 bolts and separated the engine from the auger and sure enough, there is a spring loaded brake on the bottom of the front pulley. I slipped the new belt "under the brake" this time (not over it) and installed the second belt behind it, put the machine back together (this time the 2 belts were then exactly the same length, of course) and it runs perfectly.

My reason for posting here is to thank the people who have provided such valuable and accurate information for all of us DYI'rs to read.

Thank you again and have a great day!
Mark


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## Oneacer

We have all had the "Ah Hah" moment at some point in our lives.

This is a great place for hands on knowledge regarding blowers.


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## Kiss4aFrog

:welcome: to SBF Mark

.


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