# Impeller Mod material



## Nick Karahalios (Nov 21, 2019)

I did the famous impeller mod on ym Ariens 1332 at the start of the season and have been very impressed with it. Used a kit off ebay that included 2 pieces of 2" wide 3/8" rubber and mounting hardwear. With how well it has worked, I have another I want to do along with a couple of coworkers machines. To make it cost effective I'd like to find the rubber material myself. I have found this precut 2" wide rubber sheet off amazon for 13ish $. Wondering if it will do the job, or if anyone has found something that can be purchased at a local Tractor supply or homegoods store.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I have material still sitting in my shop if I ever decide to do an impeller mod, but to be honest, I really don't have the need. I only have a double driveway, and have no issue throwing snow past it with any of my machines.

If you are looking for a good material, go to a local truck stop, or truck repair shop, they will probably give you an old ripped truck mud flap. I drove for a living, and that is thin gauge quality rubber, with imbedded reinforcement, which can be easily cut and drilled, yet heavy enough to use it for impeller extensions ... all probably for free. I have material from the Railroad which I obtained before I retired, very similar in composition.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Single stage Toro old paddle worked for me and at no cost.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@gibbs,

Using a paddle material for the same purpose would certainly be the way to go if they can obtain that material for sure. 

Many in the country that might have access to farm implement belting is another source of material if need be.


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## toromike (Aug 20, 2018)

Some people have used this baler belting
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/wcco-belting-baler-belting-2-ply-4-in-x-60-in
I think it's a little less than 3/8 inch thick.
I have used single stage paddle material from a Toro S200 (2 5/8 inch wide, 0.270 inch thick), it works very well. It's available.


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## KennyW in CT (Feb 24, 2015)

I use old mud flaps or Truck dock bumper rubber.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Tractor Supply has baler belt in 5 ft. rolls, enough to make impeller kits for the rest of your life. Works great. I have also used a light duty truck reinforced mudflap that I cut into the required sizes, also worked well. Baler belt is easier cutting to get to the correct dimensions and to add the nooks and crannies mine needed.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Some people have used the sidewall of automotive tires if they don't have to much curvature.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

I suggest looking on eBay. There are many listings for SBR in 3/8" thickness, 2" wide, 36" long strips for close to $20. This means you can do several machines with minimal cutting or waste - 9 paddles of 4" or 7 paddles of 5". In my opinion SBR is the preferred rubber for this project due to its abrasion resistance, impact strength, resilience, and high tensile strength. In case you're not familiar, SBR is used in car tires and rubber shoe soles. Maybe most important, snow plow blades are made of SBR.

BTW, make certain to use stainless steel hardware.


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/wcco-belting-baler-belting-2-ply-4-in-x-60-in
WCCO Belting Baler Belting, 2-Ply, 4 in. x 60 in. Other sizes available too.


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## melson (Feb 9, 2015)

I'll second @Tony P. Did the impeller mod 7 years ago with this stuff and it's showing minimal wear. Can't remember the thickness, it was left over from a job, maybe 1/2 inch.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

did my oldest impeller kit 10 yrs ago there is no wear
none of the others 10 plus done the same way have any issues either ( for iam worried crowd) dont use tek screws they wont hold, why didnt ariens do this it must be unsafe, things can fly out of there dont do it ( buncha bs)

made out of a car tire free
2 tek screws in each paddle with washers never came loose
pretty simple pretty much free


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

I've seen several posts on using ply or belting material. Hopefully I'll avoid a discussion the finer points of rubber construction but I need to make a comment on the need to avoid ply or belting material. I believe either ply or belting material reduces or even eliminates the benefit of the impeller modification and should be avoided because of its flexibility.

The modification is needed because of the gap between the impeller and the wall. In making the modification, the rubber must eliminate as much of the gap as possible. However, ply or belting material is flexible and will flex as it comes in contact with snow, creating a gap that can be wide as the original one. The paddles must be firm and not buckle against the snow.

I know some people make the paddle larger than the gap to compensate for the flex but doing so just wastes material as the paddle can skim over the snow.

Imagine trying to row with a flexible paddle or oar.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Tony P. said:


> I've seen several posts on using ply or belting material. Hopefully I'll avoid a discussion the finer points of rubber construction but I need to make a comment on the need to avoid ply or belting material. I believe either ply or belting material reduces or even eliminates the benefit of the impeller modification and should be avoided because of its flexibility.
> 
> The modification is needed because of the gap between the impeller and the wall. In making the modification, the rubber must eliminate as much of the gap as possible. However, ply or belting material is flexible and will flex as it comes in contact with snow, creating a gap that can be wide as the original one. The paddles must be firm and not buckle against the snow.
> 
> ...



its ok for you to be a 100% wromg which you are my st824 rust throw slush and straight water like a firehose 20 plus feet and snow 40 plus feet
stock if theythrew 25 feet it was a miracle 

it clogged prior alot as live on the coast and get lots of wet snow
it hasnt clogged since the kit was installed
the flex helps not hurts and at speed of 1083 impeller rpm there is very lil flex
carry on with your mis information


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Tony P. said:


> I believe either ply or belting material reduces or even eliminates the benefit of the impeller modification and should be avoided because of its flexibility.



The belted material is usually around 1/4" to 5/16" thickness and firm enough to not flex in half on impeller gaps of 1/2" or less. I agree that belting 1/8" thick probably would fold back and should be doubled up or avoided. This is just MY opinion.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

second Tractor Supply Baler Belting.......


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

cranman said:


> second Tractor Supply Baler Belting.......





this is the Tire sidewall ive used this works as good or better

the other style belting ive used

better bailer belt
scraper from single stages
the rubber from the scrapers for spreading driveway sealer
ive used it all my 1st which is 10 yrs old was the car tire
the st824 throws 40 feet plus and looks like a firehose with slush and water
youd would think 10 yrs worth of results would be better then hersay but it continues


its .31 inches thick better then all the above


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

Tire sidewall for me as well.. I used the thicker part of the sidewall to extend over the gap.
It's very ridged due to it's thickness and associated fibers within.
That is a 10 mm wrench .. a half inch is a little over 12 and half mm.. so I have about a half inch of thickness in the gap area itself ... And the thinner part of the sidewall towards the inside









Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

old tire, i cut the steel cord but that was unnecessary depending on height of sidewall, hardest part ...getting them screwed into impeller while the impeller is still in machine, doable as mine has a big enough discharge hole for me to work in. 
bonus, no wet snow to freeze up in the impeller housing as the rubber clears everything out
def worth doing with any appropriate material


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

1132le said:


> its ok for you to be a 100% wromg which you are my st824 rust throw slush and straight water like a firehose 20 plus feet and snow 40 plus feet
> stock if theythrew 25 feet it was a miracle
> 
> it clogged prior alot as live on the coast and get lots of wet snow
> ...


Talk about misinformation.

Next time you take a flight, do it in a plane with flexible propellers and see what happens at over 1,000 rpm. Or maybe you can invent a flexible ceiling fan. Or invest your savings in a flexible lawn mower blade company. Everyone knows firm blades push more than flexible ones. After all, that's why your impellers, themselves, aren't flexible.

And how on earth can anyone know how much flex an impeller paddle has at 1,083 rpm. And whether an SRM paddle wouldn't flex less. 

For the record, I used SRM and my snow blower throws water 40 feet and snow 80 feet. And that's before I turn it on. Imagine what yours would do with SRM.:devil:


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Tony P. said:


> Talk about misinformation.
> 
> Next time you take a flight, do it in a plane with flexible propellers and see what happens at over 1,000 rpm. Or maybe you can invent a flexible ceiling fan. Or invest your savings in a flexible snow shovel company.
> 
> ...


 Its not a plane or a plow or nuclear sub its just a a snow blower
who cares if srm flexes less lol

the facts are ive used all the other rubber not much difference 

10 yrs the results speak for themselves if the rubber was SKIMMING YOUR WORDS it woudnt be working so thats clearly wrong the fact its 10 yrs old also says you are wrong
something is blowing 80 feet but its not your snowblower


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Tony P. said:


> Talk about misinformation.
> 
> Next time you take a flight, do it in a plane with flexible propellers and see what happens at over 1,000 rpm. Or maybe you can invent a flexible ceiling fan. Or invest your savings in a flexible lawn mower blade company. Everyone knows firm blades push more than flexible ones. After all, that's why your impellers, themselves, aren't flexible.
> 
> ...


 Hey Mr Toni is your mtd 88173 24 inch 208cc must be in Guinness book of records blowing now 80 feet and water 40 feet thats amazing for 5 hp


https://www.snowblowerforum.com/for...on/106210-impeller-kit-craftsman-88173-a.html



I see your post you closed the gap from 5/8 to 1/8 'truly amazing throwing cough cough


https://www.snowblowerforum.com/for...orum/134113-snow-blower-turned-into-plow.html


In that post you ask why your killer 5 hp mtd is plowing snow when you looked in it was filled with ice clearly your impeller kit was not working because even an 1/8 gap lets water by which turns into ice and it clogs and pushes snow so much for 80 feet toni or your srm


around here we try and keep things to facts because it helps other posters carry on


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

1132le, I just post to provide a point of view. I'm not going to debate anyone here or elsewhere on something as trivial as the characteristics of ply versus SRM. I'm just laying out the facts as I see them and I'll leave it to others to decide. 

I've never attacked you or anyone else here and don't intend to; not because I can't, but because I don't need this forum to feel good about myself. And I have better things to do with my time than search old posts for statements like you obviously did which, if you read mine, actually describe my result positively. 



> Wondering if it will do the job, or if anyone has found something that can be purchased at a local Tractor supply or homegoods store.


If the original poster, Nick, is still around, go back and look at your purchase or contact the seller. I suspect you'll find your paddle kit came with SRM as that's what almost all two-stage kits on the market are made from. So, since you're satisfied with your result and want to duplicate it, you may want to use the same material. If so, you can find it on eBay in 36" strips.

And, I'll leave it at that.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

I love this forum. Often there are discussions where much knowledge can be gained. People are very passionate about their opinions.


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## Nick Karahalios (Nov 21, 2019)

Tony P. said:


> 1132le, I just post to provide a point of view. I'm not going to debate anyone here or elsewhere on something as trivial as the characteristics of ply versus SRM. I'm just laying out the facts as I see them and I'll leave it to others to decide.
> 
> I've never attacked you or anyone else here and don't intend to; not because I can't, but because I don't need this forum to feel good about myself. And I have better things to do with my time than search old posts for statements like you obviously did which, if you read mine, actually describe my result positively.
> 
> ...


I'm just going to purchase the material from the original link that I posted and see what happens, if I dont like it, I'll just return it. I could reach out to the Ebay seller but i doubt he will want to give out his secret formula. I could just buy more precut/preassembled kits from him but I'm trying to find the most cost effective way to do another 4-5 machines. For my machine, the mod FLAT OUT WORKED. Even my un mechanically inclined wife noted. When i came in after the last storm she stated: "what the heck did you do to your snowblower? Its blowing snow half way accross the lawn"


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## SkunkyLawnmowers (Oct 18, 2018)

Baler Belting, like others have mentioned.

I made my own impeller kit and I ex[periented with other rubber materials. I found the baler belting the best compromise between ease of cutting, fitting, and it it is flexible enough to seal itself nicely just how you want it between impeller end and auger housing.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Nick Karahalios said:


> I'm just going to purchase the material from the original link that I posted and see what happens, if I dont like it, I'll just return it. I could reach out to the Ebay seller but i doubt he will want to give out his secret formula. I could just buy more precut/preassembled kits from him but I'm trying to find the most cost effective way to do another 4-5 machines. For my machine, the mod FLAT OUT WORKED. Even my un mechanically inclined wife noted. When i came in after the last storm she stated: "what the heck did you do to your snowblower? Its blowing snow half way accross the lawn"



for 13 bucks thats not a bad deal
its a snowblower not the space shuttle


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## The Q (Dec 19, 2016)

Whether it does or does not, the baler belt material that I used works like a champ. Since installing I have yet to have a clog, even in EOD snow. Also we are talking about maybe a half inch gap of fiber reinforced baler material supported by 2"x3" of the same material. Just how much flex do you think there is going to be with 1/2" of exposed material? You use what you want and I`ll use what I have been using. 

In response to Tony P.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

I used baler belt too. It has cording like a tire and my snow blower still throws snow 40 feet. Once I had about 3 inches of water in my driveway and the impeller kit was so tight that it was literally pumping water which was spraying about a foot or so out of the chute. That and an increase in size for the top pulley to speed up the impeller leads to further throwing distance.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

As mentioned, must any farm supply store will have 'canvas belting'. It's used on feeder canvas on things like older combines and binders and comes in various widths. It's usually not that expensive and will last a long time. Add some stainless steel bolts and washers and you're all set. My thoughts.


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## burt8810 (Nov 28, 2019)

*Impeller mod material*

SBR (Styrene Butadiene Rubber) Sheet, 70 Shore A, Black, Smooth Finish, No Backing, 0.25" Thickness, 6" Width, 36" Length

From Amazon a short while ago $12

Used (2) stainless steel self tapping screws per paddle with fender washers. Did pre-drill holes.

Closed up about a 3/8" gap in a 14 year old MTD/Craftsman 22". Just put a HF Predator on it as the original LCT went to lunch.

No snow since the fixes.

Herb


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

burt8810 said:


> SBR (Styrene Butadiene Rubber) Sheet, 70 Shore A, Black, Smooth Finish, No Backing, 0.25" Thickness, 6" Width, 36" Length
> 
> From Amazon a short while ago $12
> 
> ...


thanks for this source. I have been using mudflap. .25 inch seems kinda thin but they also have 3/8 an half inch.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Waking up an old thread, only to post that I am finally in a position that I feel requires me to perform my first impeller mod.

The new Cub Cadet (made by MTD) I just cleaned up and got running has an impeller gap that is wider than I have seen on any of my machines.

I will be using 1/4 inch track padding that is used under railroad tracks on the concrete railroad ties for the impeller flap extension material. I also will be using 1/8 inch aluminum material for the flap hold down, and finally attaching them with stainless steel Allen drive cap screws (actually bolts) and Stainless Steel nylock nuts.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Oneacer, I'm surprised you've never have done this. Ok.

What is this RR Track bedding material? Where did you get it? How flexible is it?

Many don't hold down the material with metal, some use fender washers or screw bolts with large heads. I don't know how much vibration there is, with many using screws I can't see much vibration, but whenI use to snowplow, every plow frame bolt came loose using nylon lock nuts. I switched to torque nuts and never a none came loose. When I did the impeller modification on 3 of my machines, I used torque nuts. I generally buy my hardware from Bolt Depot in MA, quality, price, fast delivery, support with questions, and you can buy in any quantity.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yeah, all these years, and I never had a need to perform a mod on any of my machines, as I never had an issue with throwing or clogging.

I retired from Amtrak, and these pads are a man made material, flexible yet firm, that go under the rail over the concrete ties. Extremly durable. I chose the SS nylock, as I have never had one back off in any application I ever used them, and they wont rust and the Allen cap head will sit pretty flush and smooth, yet give me the ability to tighten them good. The 1/8 inch aluminum material is sturdy, gives complete length wise compression, lightweigght and wont rust.

I wont need any washers, as the hole will be drilled precise for the 5/16 thrread, and neither the cap screw bolt or the lock nut will pull through the impeller blade or the aluminum hold down strip, with the new flap sandwiched in-between. 2 bolts per flap, as each impeller fin is like only 3 inches max lengh wise.

I plan on making a cardboard template for each fin as I do one at a time, shaping the flap for each one as I go, spinning the impellar after each one is installed. I plan on leaving approximatly an 1/8 inch clearance between flap fin extension and the housing.


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## PlOM (Nov 12, 2020)

I'm thinking of finding the flat, Allen drive bolts which should work just as well, but not require as much clearance as the dome head. (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-10-32-x-3-4-in-Allen-Drive-Cap-Screws-3-Count/3024597). However, have to first check whether the underside of the head is tapered (like a typical flat head screw) or flat. Otherwise I'll go with the same dome head screws. (My post Impeller Mod for Troy-Bilt 2410 ).

EDIT: The flat Allen head screws by Hillman are tapered.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yeah, the Allen cap screws (bolts) will not stick up much at all, and when all done, I'm going to spray everything with the super slick silicone spray .... 😀😁


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Oneacer said:


> Yeah, the Allen cap screws (bolts) will not stick up much at all, and when all done, I'm going to spray everything with the super slick silicone spray .... 😀😁


Have used many materials and by far the best is CORDED baler belt. I get mine from Tractor Supply for about $17 the last time i got it. Other materials do not last. Have found out the hard way. Other non corded materials may have lasted 2 winters before chipping and coming apart.

my machines get used a lot. last winter only about 15 hours but the winter before that was 70 hours. average is maybe 20-40 hours.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I have seen these pads in use for many, many years, ... 24/7, 365 days a year, extreme hot and cold elements, with trains running over them continuously every single day ...... I never saw a chipped one or a cracked one. I imagine Amtrak and the railroad industry did some extensive testing with all kinds of man made elements, before choosing the one that has been in use to this day, and still in use. ... I am sure they will survive for years on the end of an impeller fin ....... I guess I will find out .... 😊😀


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I also have reinforced ballast grading skid flaps off a Ballast Regulater. If I did not have access to these pads and flaps, I would be using a reinforced material such as mud flaps or belting as well.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Well in finally got to mod the impeller today on my new Cub Cadet .... I went with the stainless 1/4-20 x 1 , as the impeller is not all that large. Works great...


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Impeller mod good, SNOW AND ICE PILE/ END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER BAD, Little moat monsters eating END OF DRIVEWAY Monster good.


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