# 828 SWE lifespan



## psternklar (Oct 3, 2011)

Hello, great forum, 1st post. I have a CubCadet 828SWE that is about 14 years old. The engine runs well. The drive mechanism is fair. I change the oil etc myself but do not repair it myself. My local shop (which appears honest) looked at it last year and told me the dive mechanism was good but the belts needed replacement. This helped somewhat but the drive is not great. Is it worth fixing this machine? I understand the Tecumseh engine is no longer made. I am concerned with the winter starting I may be left with a non-functioning blower. How do the new machines (I know not to get the new CubCadet) stack up? Thanks for helping this newbie!
-Phil


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Is it friction disc drive? Do you still have the manual? You could try replacing the friction disc rubber and cleaning the metal plate. You could also probably just tighten the adjustments.

Type friction disc here and it will show you how to replace MTD and Ariens. Will also give you a good idea of how the transmission and drive mechanisms all work. It is a basic system and anyone that looks at it should be able to understand it and fix it fairly easily.
donyboy73's Channel - YouTube

Here is one showing how it works:


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## psternklar (Oct 3, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, no it is chain drive


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Even with a chain it might still have a friction disc setup. Have you physically removed the cover and taken a look in there to see what might be causing the drive to not work? Pictures of the machine and / or the drive system with the bottom cover removed might help some of us figure out what the problem is.

I wouldn't worry too much about the engine if it still runs fine. 14 years is kind of old, but they don't get a lot of use and if it was taken care of it should still be good for quite a few years to come.


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## psternklar (Oct 3, 2011)

Sorry, 826swe not 828 swe


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## psternklar (Oct 3, 2011)

and I was wrong (no surprise) it is a friction disc with chain drive. The disc rubber looks good.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Take a rag with some gas or brake cleaner and clean the metal disc real good and also spin the rubber and clean the edge of it. This will get you the best possible grip. Also check the adjustments for the engagement. They need to be tightened a bit as the rubber wears off the friction disc. I have no idea how yours is, but Ariens uses a nut where it goes into the chassis and says tighten it until wheels start to bind and then loosen 1.5 turns. MTD just has cables with an adjustment nut on them.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

according to partstree.com your blower, cub cadet 826 swe is a chain drive but the chain drives a friction wheel assembly. i wouldnt get rid of it. i am a fan of the older the better. my blowers are around 47 years old.. does it slip in drive or skip. are any actual problems or are you just worried about failure due to age? bad belts or a fair condition friction plate or possibly both would make it barely move if at all. belt replacement is easy, friction wheel is as well. if a shop does it it still shouldnt be too pricey. i dont use repair shops, maybe someone else would have a better idea of pricing.

here is the diagram for it.

Parts and Diagrams for Cub Cadet 826 SWE (2000 HM)


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

slow at typing, you responded already.

i could take a pic of a brand new friction wheel i have and a pic of the one i have on the machine so you could compare them. i cleaned both wheel and plate but still barely works in reverse and forward is so-so. just havent put the new one in yet


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

this was a slipping friction disc. only slipped slightly in forward. quite a bit in reverse. pic1 is old and 2 is new

i did not think the old one was that bad


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Drive issues*

I'm not a big fan of friction disc machines, but having rebuilt one over the summer I've found a few things.

1 There is some mechanism to put tension on the friction disc to the drive wheel when driving the rear wheels, that may be out of adjustment. On mine there was an adjustment in the handle shifter along with a spring that needed to be adjusted correctly.

2 That old disc looks so-so to me, for what a new one costs (if you do it yourself) it's a fairly inexpensive part in relation to the whole snowblower.

3 The one I rebuilt had a bad bushing on the shaft that connects the pulley to the friction disc. With the belt off and tension off the friction disc, see if there's extra play in there. If the bushings are bad, that can cause extra slack in the belt which would cause slipping.

4 If your belt is glazed, it's not going to grip the pulley very well. Same if it's the wrong size or length of belt or the tensioner is not adjusted properly.

That's all I can think of right now. If your machine is in otherwise good shape, I'd find the problem and fix it rather than look into another one. Then again, that's just me.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

i prefer my old snowblowers that have actual transmissions as well. that disc is for a 10 hp blower. but i cant sell it if it does not work right. disc is done and works fine. new disc was $38 at sears parts. i dont think this blower was ever apart so a few parts were frozen onto shafts but even with that delay it wasnt bad. took about 2 1/2 hours.. compared to some of the you tube videos which seem a great deal easier, this one was more involved. had to pull a tire off to get the shaft for the carrier out. some videos show a nut on each side of the machine and then the carrier assembly comes out. but not this one.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

TD5771

You're lucky to find one after a very few years, some brands/models are harder to find than others. That one I rebuilt I was thinking about changing the disc but it had other issues. Made a mount and move the tension spring from the handlebar to inside the drive area mainly because it was missing and couldn't find the parts so I made my own. The disc was unavailable from Sears and didn't find any elsewhere. I picked up a Toro friction disc with the intentions of opening up the center hole and using that but didn't need to once I got some tension on the disc, that solved it's drive issues.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

it took a long time to find. its an old bolens model 1032 but no parts ever came up, the model number never came up on any site, even the mtd site. blower is around 1993 vintage.

keep this in mind....i got the friction disc by finally digging up a parts manual. then putting the part number only with no reference to the model number, into sears parts and it came up. 

must be used on many other machines.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Disc*

If that's a 6" friction disc with something like around a 2 1/2" center opening, if you still have the part number could you pm me that info? I'd love to have it available in case I come up against this again. I poked around for hours and never turned up anything. The part number from the manual was discontinued on the one I was looking for.

Thanks


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

3" center opening, 5 and 15/16 od (close enough) if you want the bolt pattern let me know. 


what was the numbers info on the blower you were restoring?


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Snowblower*

The one I have is a 536.90515 Craftsman, I think it may be a AYP maker but I'm not sure as I suppose it could be a Murray. The Sears part number from the manual is 35585 'Disc Assembly, Rubber'. I'd have to go open the chassis up again but the hold where the shaft and bearing goes through is around 2 1/2" from what I remember. I did find Toro had one with a 1 1/2" hole but the correct OD so I thought about just chucking it into the lathe and opening it up. Sounds like yours isn't the same one either, though I do appreciate the info if I ever find another machine needing a disc with a bigger opening.


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## psternklar (Oct 3, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. I tightened the belt somewhat and it is running better. I love that the engine start right up and runs well. The impeller and augers have rust but appear in fair shape (no holes). I think I'll get through this winter (I hope!).


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

if you were handy enough to adjust the idler pulley or whatever the adjustment is to tighten the belt you are surely capable of changing belts.

if you aren't going to change them now it might be a good idea to just buy them and hang them up so when you get a storm and it eats a belt or starts slipping again you can just change them and not have to worry about them being in stock or closed


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## kb0nly (Sep 22, 2011)

I have gone through two friction discs in my blower in the ten years i have owned it. But i found that once the disc gets about half worn, half its original size, its still plenty capable of working but the tension wasn't enough to keep it applied to the metal disc, add some tension to keep it working or replace it. I bought a spring at the hardware store that i added on to provide some more pressure, not a ton just a little bit more, i think the original springs are actually a bit weak with age. 

The extra spring pressure isn't enough to make disengaging difficult, and there is no appreciable difference in wear or grip with a new friction disc, it just basically brings it back to how it should be. I contacted Craftsman/Sears for some new springs, they aren't available, so i added a medium tension spring about the same length as the original and just doubled them up.

Also take a scuff pad to the metal wheel, i like to use some brake clean and a 3m brown scuff pad, just like you would do to prep brake rotors. I do that once at the beginning of the season and also clean the rubber friction disc with some dish soap and water to degrease it. The brake cleaner and others will eat the rubber a bit and make it worse. 

Usually i powerwash the entire underchassis area, then clean and scuff the metal disc, then grease everything. Oiling the drive chains requires some attention, i used to use plain old oil but then figured out i was getting some oil slung onto the metal disc or friction disc causing drive problems. So i started using a grease product on the chains as well, i don't recall its name, but i found it in my local farm supply store, its sold specifically as a chain lubricant that sticks like grease and stays on the chain but has good cold weather properties as well.

Keep that old machine humming. 14 years isn't much. I put 38 years on my Tecumseh before it finally gave up and i replaced it. Repowering is always an option!


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

*Need that friction disc*



td5771 said:


> 3" center opening, 5 and 15/16 od (close enough) if you want the bolt pattern let me know.
> 
> 
> what was the numbers info on the blower you were restoring?


Hi -- sorry to resurrect this thread, but I found it while searching for a friction disc for my old Craftsman blower. It's model 536.909800, and I think that's a Murray number. The friction disc part is 35585. Can you tell me where you got your replacement? Your blower looks just like mine...

Thanks!
Bryan


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Friction Disc*

Bryan

First off, welcome to the forum.

If it's the one I think it is, it's not available. But if it's the one I think it is, all is not lost. 

I have one at home with a 6" friction disc on it that I thought about replacing then I ran into the same issue. In the course of looking for one I didn't find a replacement (didn't find one, not saying they aren't available).
In the course of looking I started checking other brands and found something interesting.

The one I have has an opening something like 2 3/4" and 3 bolts IIRC. I found Toro has a 6" disk with something like a 1 3/4" center hole and 4 bolts. Most discs seen to be either 4 1/2" or 6" O.D.
I bought a Toro one with the intent of putting it on the metal lathe and opening up the hole and then drilling the 3 mounting bolt holes. Turned out I didn't need it after all, it was a bushing that was my issue so it went onto the shelf.

It shouldn't be that difficult or expensive to have a machine shop open the center opening on the Toro friction disc to match your existing one (assuming you have the same issue) and drill the 3 mounting holes. Once that's done, then it should be a simple task of mounting it into the snowblower. Note that I have not actually done this, but logically it should work from what I saw comparing it to the machine, but you'd need to confirm that for yourself first.

I hope that gives you some ideas on how to get yours going again, assuming that's the right diameter disc. If not, check the outside diameter and width on some other brands and find one that matches. Seems like I only found 2 or 3 different basic friction discs. Most just had differing center holes and mounting bolt holes but the same outside diameter and width.

Hope that helps


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

OK, thank you HCBPH. I opened it all up today (now that the motor is off -- I broke the rod with no oil in it!) and actually the rubber on the disc is cracked but still looks ok. I'll just scuff it up a bit and make sure the drive disc has some roughness to it and maybe it'll be good for another 25 years.  I'm trying to figure out what I need to replace in the motor... looks like just the rod and everything else is good. Some gaskets and a carb clean/rebuild and hopefully the rest of the blower parts will hold together. Now THOSE definitely would be hard to replace! 

Thanks!
Bryan


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

I bought the disc from sears. it was an in stock item.

yours is unavailable.....under that part number

find a machine that looks absolutely identical to yours, try to ascertain the model number and look it up that way. it may or may not fit. find someone here that has the machine and ask for measurements.

or... measure yours. you only need the outside diameter and inside diameter. the bolt holes dont matter. you can drill new ones.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

if the motor is blown as well, after fixing it you should keep scouring craigslist and ebay for a parts machine just to keep around. make silly offers, sometimes they get accepted. the blower in my photo, i have three, the transmission is no longer available. traded one for a single stage i had and 50 buck for another and 75 for another. 2 are complete running machines with kohler engines. one is now parts only


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

td5771 said:


> if the motor is blown as well, after fixing it you should keep scouring craigslist and ebay for a parts machine just to keep around. make silly offers, sometimes they get accepted. the blower in my photo, i have three, the transmission is no longer available. traded one for a single stage i had and 50 buck for another and 75 for another. 2 are complete running machines with kohler engines. one is now parts only


Well, I don't think I'd go as far as buying parts machines, especially with models this old. I don't really have the storage space for that, and these are old enough now that lots of the blower parts are rusting away and broken. I think if this rebuild doesn't work, I'll probably look for a newer-model used blower on Craigslist. That's how I got this one back in 1994 anyway... only I think it was Pennysaver. 

Thanks!


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm reading some other posts here on this forum -- very helpful, thank you! HCBPH, it looks like you have almost the exact same model Craftsman that I do - mid-80s vintage and a 8hp 2-stage.

I'm wondering whether I should replace the v-Belts on it while I have it apart. The existing ones are OK, but are 25 years old. I noticed the outside of the belt is ridged, maybe so it grabs better on the idler pulleys? Is there a replacement belt that's similar, or do we just go with the smooth type belts? Where do you get them? The Sears part numbers were 49570 and 49581.

Thanks!


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

I have heard about kevlar belts being excellent and lasting far longer than regular.

I have only used regular belts without any issues, but if you have a belt that slips or gets torn up, doesnt sound like you do, then the kevlar may be worth a try.

make sure you get the right profile, I have had snowblowers that use the wider equipment belts and others that use the narrower automotive style belts.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Machine*



cassb said:


> I'm reading some other posts here on this forum -- very helpful, thank you! HCBPH, it looks like you have almost the exact same model Craftsman that I do - mid-80s vintage and a 8hp 2-stage.
> 
> I'm wondering whether I should replace the v-Belts on it while I have it apart. The existing ones are OK, but are 25 years old. I noticed the outside of the belt is ridged, maybe so it grabs better on the idler pulleys? Is there a replacement belt that's similar, or do we just go with the smooth type belts? Where do you get them? The Sears part numbers were 49570 and 49581.
> 
> Thanks!


Bryan

I think I have a pdf on that machine (536.909800) that one of the members was good enough to scan. Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll confirm and send it along if you want it.

On belts, what I've typically done if I can't get them directly, I'll search on the part numbers. Many vendors will cross reference them to the width and length then it's just a matter of ordering one or picking one up at my local supply company.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

on belts, absolutely I agree. no reason to pay premium price at an equipment supply/repair for "snowblower" belts.

I tend to use dayco belts for my auto parts guy. they have standard auto style measurements as well a 4L36 for example.


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

HCBPH said:


> Bryan
> 
> I think I have a pdf on that machine (536.909800) that one of the members was good enough to scan. Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll confirm and send it along if you want it.
> 
> On belts, what I've typically done if I can't get them directly, I'll search on the part numbers. Many vendors will cross reference them to the width and length then it's just a matter of ordering one or picking one up at my local supply company.


Hi -- thanks. Although I have the original Operators Manual, if that's what you have.

One question though: I stop the engine with a wire I put under a bolt and I just manually short the spark plug to the frame. Did these snowblowers ever have a kill switch? It would be nice to not risk getting shocked when I want to stop it. 

Thanks!


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

cassb said:


> Hi -- thanks. Although I have the original Operators Manual, if that's what you have.
> 
> One question though: I stop the engine with a wire I put under a bolt and I just manually short the spark plug to the frame. Did these snowblowers ever have a kill switch? It would be nice to not risk getting shocked when I want to stop it.
> 
> Thanks!


Most older snowblowers didnt have any kind of "on/off" ignition key..
you turn off the engine by simply moving the throttle lever down from "fast" to "slow" to "off"..

newer machines, with a key, might just go to "low idle" with the throttle, and not go "far enough" to turn fully off with the throttle alone..

How is your machine set up? can you turn it off with the throttle? or when you "throttle it down" as far as it will go, is it simply slowly idling?

If your machine doesnt seem to have ever had a key or an on/off switch, you probably originally turned it off with the throttle lever..perhaps it can be adjusted to work that way again..

Scot


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

sscotsman said:


> Most older snowblowers didnt have any kind of "on/off" ignition key..
> you turn off the engine by simply moving the throttle lever down from "fast" to "slow" to "off"..
> 
> newer machines, with a key, might just go to "low idle" with the throttle, and not go "far enough" to turn fully off with the throttle alone..
> ...



Yes, I believe it turned off with the Throttle lever. But when I turn the lever as low as it goes, the engine just idles. I assume there was some kind of switch or something to short the ignition to ground in that position, but I have no idea what/where. There is some kind of clip on the carb cover that engages when the throttle is at the lowest setting, but it's not connected to anything with wire.

Bryan


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Until you figure out what the actual system was, and can replace it, is there a gas valve on the bottom of the gas tank? if you shut that off, the engine will sputter out in a minute or so..

any mysterious openings on the dash?
something that looks like it maybe once held a key?
being a 28" machine, its a step-up from the entry-level models,
which means it probably had more than just the bare-basics..
I expect it probably had an ignition key originally..


Scot


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*536.909800 ignition*

Just looked at the pdf of the manual. There should be a switch on that model machine on the heat cover over the carb, just like virtually every other machine in the era had. Simple switch, when the switch showed 'on' the circuit was broken. When the switch was set to off, the circuit was open, effectively grounding the points acting as a kill.

Nothing unusual there, same basic setup used on thousands of engines.


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

HCBPH said:


> Just looked at the pdf of the manual. There should be a switch on that model machine on the heat cover over the carb, just like virtually every other machine in the era had. Simple switch, when the switch showed 'on' the circuit was broken. When the switch was set to off, the circuit was open, effectively grounding the points acting as a kill.
> 
> Nothing unusual there, same basic setup used on thousands of engines.


Aha... a switch on the carb cover? There is none on it now... OK, let me look for that somewhere and see what it is and how it's wired up. Thank you!

Bryan


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

cassb said:


> Aha... a switch on the carb cover? There is none on it now... OK, let me look for that somewhere and see what it is and how it's wired up. Thank you!
> 
> Bryan


Edit: Oh, I see now. I'm looking at the manual. It's an "Ignition Switch" on the carb cover... looks like a key. Well, this blower didn't come with the carb cover at all when I got it, like, 15 years ago... so I have no idea what that switch did or where it was connected. Hm... I'll have to look up some electrical diagrams and see if I can rig something up that works the same way.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Ignition ground*

I'll answer this one, but if you have more questions then you should start your own thread so things are searchable etc and others can find if needed rather than being imbedded in another unrelated thread.

You have a wire that connects to the points where the condensor attaches (the screw sticking out of the points cover)








That wire then goes to a insulated bracket on the lower corner of the flywheel cover. The red bracket in the lower corner is where it attaches to the L bracket








From here there are 2 wires that branch from that bracket. One goes to a grounding switch on the throttle and another to the 'ignition' switch.
On this throttle, the throttle ground switch in line with the choke handle in the photo, that's where one of the two wires from the bracket should be hooked up. When the throttle is closed, that switch grounds out the ignition.








Same here with the only difference is the style of throttle.








The second wire from the bracket goes to the on/off switch on the carb heater cover









That's all there is to it.


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

OK I'll start another thread, but I have a different ignition. It's an external, solid state one with the magnet on the flywheel. I don't even know if I have points on this engine, but I'll pull the flywheel and find out. But basically, the switch opens and closes the connection between the points and ground on the throttle switch. That's good enough... thank you!

Bryan


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## cassb (Jan 17, 2012)

I just want to post one last reply to this thread as a conclusion for the on/off switch on my engine. I figured out how it works with my solid-state ignition. There is a blade connector on the magneto ignition coil, and there is a grounding switch on the throttle lever. When the throttle lever is moved to the slowest position, it touches the grounding switch. So if a wire is connected from the coil to this switch, when the throttle is 'off', it grounds out the coil and the engine stops. To run the engine, you simply move the throttle so it no longer touches the ground switch and start the engine. 

Pretty simple! I like it.


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