# Old (Classic) Blowers vs. New



## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

I have read so many posts over the years from members on this forum, and even on MyTractorsForum, that the old machines were just built better than today's. I admit that I don't have much experience with any of the older blowers, but I can't imagine they were so much better than today that all of the manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves and just not show their faces in public.

I say this only because in the fields that I do know a bit more about (houses and automobiles) the same thing is said. However, if a person is truly looking at it objectively, today's houses and cars are far superior than anything built 40+ years ago. In fact, it's really not even close.

So, what made those old (classic) snowblowers so much better? The engine, transmission, auger....? Was it simply the consumer got more for his/her money? I'd like to know.


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

This should be entertaining... opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:



Smolenski7 said:


> I say this only because in the fields that I do know a bit more about (houses and automobiles) the same thing is said. However, if a person is truly looking at it objectively, today's houses and cars are far superior than anything built 40+ years ago. In fact, it's really not even close.


A blanket statement like that is just flat wrong, but since this forum is about snowblowers, I won't go into it here.
Many items built 30-40+ years ago were built to a standard and priced accordingly, today's items are built to a price point and the lack of quality shows.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

"Better" can mean different things to different people. 

Some may like auto-turn, heated handgrips, quiet, epa-compliant, light, efficient machines of today while others (like myself) prefer the simple, sturdy designs of yesterday....heavy-duty machines that can be maintained with basic tools and parts from the local hardware store. 

In addition, the steel used on older blowers is heavier gauge and better quality. A heavily-neglected classic machine will develop some surface rust. I doubt that the vast majority of modern machines can tolerate the same amount of mistreatment.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

i have two Ariens machines......one is a 1966 snothro, and the other is a modern snotek, i will go out on a limb and say the 1966 machine will still be blowing snow long after the snowtek is being recycled. imho, cars and houses today are not superior to stuff from back in the day when things were built to last........i wont be around to know for sure, but how many honda civics will be around in 50 years to be sold as antiques ?


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

El cheapo models not included, the machines from Honda, Ariens, Toro and Simplicity are as good as anything from the 60's/70's. 

Plus they're better designed, better performing and more fun to operate. 

Someone post a link of a common 60's/70's machine in original form (no impeller kit) throwing snow 40-50 feet like a Honda and I'll eat my hat!

The problem I think is that most users today are either mechanically deficient or don't take maintenance very seriously (or both)

The lack of knowledge and effort is giving the modern machine a bad rap.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I had a 1968 Wheel Horse that I would gladly take back over any new comparable tractor made today. Very simple, straightforward design. No special tools required. Steered like it had power steerimg and absolutely *no play* in the steering. Best piece of OPE I ever owned. But, I also owned a 1986 deere john 332 diesel that was also a fine tractor. Of course it cost 9 times the price of the wheel horse too. The older stuff may not have been quite so user friendly but it sure was built to last.


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

It's not throwing 50 feet, but gets the job done just fine...
1971 Bolens Artic 75 (made by Ariens)


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

I'll agree that today's automobiles are generally much, much better than their predecessors of yesteryear. However, I cannot agree that this is true with houses. Prewar houses were generally built with long term ownership of generations of families in mind and, in some cases, with materials you literally cannot get today (example: Old growth lumber from virgin forests). Postwar, the housing market adopted an assembly line mentality (starting with Levittown) and quality generally declined right up to the mcmansions we see today. Then there's character, which is subjective, but I will take 75+ year old masonry and clapboard wood over vinyl any day of the week.

Regarding blowers - it's clear to me that the 60s and 70s machines were of superior quality to today's machines designed to compete with imports.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

An interesting thread. There definitely seems to have been more pride in workmanship back in the day in all machinery. Today in many industries it's all about pleasing the stockholder by keeping costs down and maximizing profit margins. Those at the top cutting costs are highly compensated for this while the rank and file factory worker has likely seen his/her salary and benefits diminish significantly relative to decades ago. These cost cutting measures often using cheaper materials along with lower employee moral and less pride of workmanship has contributed to diminishing product quality. However advancements in technology including robotics & computer aided design has improved the overall performance/safety of many products including snowblowers while lowering the cost to the end user.

Regarding snowblowers especially those at the $1,000. or less price point offered at the competitive big box retailers, being "built to a price point" is more evident. The parts/service industry is also a major factor in keeping a business profitable after the sale. Engineers are told not too "over engineer" many parts in order to ensure demand for replacement parts throughout the life of the machine.


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## Ariens1978 (Oct 6, 2016)

Like with anything compared to yester-year, cost of production plays a huge roll in the quality that you get.

Just like a car. How much did a new car cost back in 1970? 5 grand lets say? With that you get big cast iron blocks, thick metal body and frame, metal bumpers etc.

The same car built today would cost a fortune in metal alone. Same would be the case in a snowblower. The tin can sheet metal used today on 1500$ blowers will rust out long before the engine dies. Whereas the old ones can be repowered and will keep on going.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Here is an Ariens dealer brochure from 1973:










someone, probably the dealer, wrote in some prices..
there is no price written for the "bottom of the line" 4HP machine, but based on the other prices, its safe to assume about $300 for that 4hp model.
So we have a range of:

$300 for the 4hp 20" "bottom of the line" snowblower.
to:
$460 for the 8hp 32" "top of the line" snowblower.

those are the actual purchase prices in 1973..

Translated to today's dollars, that's roughly:

$1,500 for the 4hp 20" "bottom of the line" snowblower.
to:
$2,500 for the 8hp 32" "top of the line" snowblower! :icon-shocked:

The value translation isnt an exact science, but even if the numbers arent exact, its still pretty clear that the *least expensive* tiny little 4hp 20-inch bucket model in 1973 cost the equivalent of well over $1,000 today! And the high quality reflected that high purchase price..

So what is missing in 1973 that we have today?
In 1973, the *REALLY* low end machines that we have today _*simply didnt exist..*_
In 1973, there was no snowblower you could buy for $100 in 1973 dollars (the equivalent of todays sub-$500 snowblower)..
that price point, and corresponding low quality level, didnt exist..
you couldn't buy something that junky and cheap even if you wanted to..
the least expensive snowblower was still *really expensive*! 
but also had the quality to match..

What has changed in the past 30 to 40 years?
People started shopping only on price..not on quality.
Today, many people want a sub-$500/$600 snowblower..so there are companys that will oblige and make one..

(im referring mostly to the really low-end "100% made in China" models, like these: 








not the models by our well-known makers.)

So, today we have machines at a MUCH lower price-point than anything that even existed in the 60's and 70's..
and to hit that low price point, we have corresponding very low quality..

Scot


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

A few other 1969-1970 prices...

My Dads salary at an aerospace company in Los Angeles in 1969 = $7,800 a year.
Price paid for brand new 2000 sq.ft ranch house in Thousand Oaks, California in 1969 = $28,900
Price paid for new Toyota 4 door sedan in 1970 = $2,500
Cigarettes in 1970 = 30 cents a pack

... so a $460.00 snowblower 1973 was not cheap.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

From what I've gathered so far, the sheet metal in today's snow blowers is thinner, however, I can't believe that's it. There has to be something else that has made so many members of this forum such huge fans of yesterday?

I also loved to see a brochure from 1973. Taking into account the metal is thinner, the price for an Ariens 32" bucket hasn't changed in 42 years! Plus, I get a more powerful engine (I have no idea if it is more powerful though), electric start, hand warmers, quick turn, larger tires, and probably some additional safety features.

So far, yesterday isn't looking so good. Yes, 40+ years ago Joe Consumer couldn't go out to his local hardware store to buy something relatively inexpensive like today. And those machines are definitely not up to the quality of anything purchased way back when. However, like has been shown, that same old Joe CAN go down to his local dealer/Big Box Store/online to spend the same amount of money on that same snowblower and get a safer, more powerful (maybe?), machine with several other reliable features like I mentioned.

Specifically, what am I missing?


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

I have a new Toro 724 QXE ... Im an old school type of guy..... and I love this machine. Sorry to say it guys but this machine can maneuver way better then and old heavy snowblower. It will also throw snow an amazing distance. Oh and it starts in one pull and is whisper quiet. I hated a Chinese engine.. before I owned one,. This thing is quieter and smoother then my Honda HS621. 

Sorry but i just don't buy this 'older is better stuff' . There are exceptions but this rule is not across the board correct statement. 

I also own 3 classic restored musclecars and though these cars are way more fun to drive then almost anything out there today.. Todays cars are more reliable, will last longer and are more comfortable then what was made 50 years ago. No question. I remember a time when if you owed a car that lasted 100k miles it was something to celebrate. Today that is barely broken in.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

Well, let me throw out a few random data points, these all relate to Ariens machines...

First: the finish. The sheet metal parts on the early machines were incredibly rust-resistant. I'm not sure if it's because the paint was baked on, they used a different/better primer, or maybe the metal was even galvanzed. But if you look at photos of machines for sale on places like Craigslist, you'll see a lot of 1980s, 1990s, and even 2000s models with tons of rust on them. Now compare to the older models... I can't remember ever seeing a 1970s or earlier model with what I'd call a lot of rust... say more than 10% of its surface.

Second: corrosion protection of fasteners. All the new stuff is "yellow zinc plated"... basically a zinc coating a few molecules thick that will prevent it from corroding for a few years. Again I'm not sure what they did on the older machines - maybe thicker electroplating - but the old fasteners resisted corrosion for decades, not years. Yellow zinc plating has become the standard on cars too... I've looked underneath cars less than 10 years old and the fasteners are corroded dramatically more than the ones on my 26-year-old Audi.

And lastly, component quality. "Back in the day", Ariens machines were 100% (or very close to 100%) made in the USA. Last winter one of my machines that was built around 1987 needed an impeller shaft bearing, so I ordered a genuine Ariens replacement. The replacement had "made in China" stamped on it. The old bearing lasted around 30 years... I'd bet the cost of a replacement machine the new one won't last half that long. And yes that's a replacement part but it seems awfully likely the new machines are using parts from the same sources. And just to be clear, the bearing I ordered was an Ariens part from an authorized dealer, and came in Ariens packaging... it wasn't an "ebay special" or anything like that.


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

One thing that has not been mentioned is the price of a 60's/70's Ariens/Gilson/Toro/Deere/Chalmers/Simplicity/etc... 
If you're patient, you can find a seldom used, always garaged, very reliable machine for $200.00 or less.
I've seen countless examples all summer on our local Craigslist.
I picked up a seldom used Snapper 1030 for $140.00 and an old Simplicity for $20.00 (cleaned carb and runs like new).
You can't go out and get much more than a shovel for that kind of money.

I don't think you're missing anything really, some people like old equipment for various reasons and some don't... that's it.
I've used the same cell phone since 2002, replaced the battery a couple times and it makes calls and receives calls, never drops calls, sound clarity is fantastic and it only needs charging every 2-3 weeks.
Best of all my cell plan costs 3 dollars a month. 










I think my old cell phone is like an old blower, it gets the job done, is reliable and inexpensive.
It does everything I need it to do and nothing more and when it breaks I'll get another one on eBay for 5 bucks.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

That's great! Maybe we can start a SBF "phone dinosaur" group... I've got a phone that's maybe 1 generation newer than that. I'm jealous of your service plan though... I'm paying $100 a year.

People rib me about not having a smartphone and I tell them that as far as I know, the word "telephone" comes (roughly) from the Latin "tele" for distant and "phone" for speaking, and as long as it lets me speak with people who are distant, it does all I need. :wink:


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Smolenski7 said:


> From what I've gathered so far, the sheet metal in today's snow blowers is thinner, however, I can't believe that's it. There has to be something else that has made so many members of this forum such huge fans of yesterday?


oh yeah..there is a LOT more "something else"



Smolenski7 said:


> I also loved to see a brochure from 1973. Taking into account the metal is thinner, the price for an Ariens 32" bucket hasn't changed in 42 years! Plus, I get a more powerful engine (I have no idea if it is more powerful though), electric start, hand warmers, quick turn, larger tires, and probably some additional safety features.


yeah, but safety features doesn't necessarily correspond to better build quality..
you can have those safety features on a piece of junk..



Smolenski7 said:


> So far, yesterday isn't looking so good. Yes, 40+ years ago Joe Consumer couldn't go out to his local hardware store to buy something relatively inexpensive like today. And those machines are definitely not up to the quality of anything purchased way back when. However, like has been shown, that same old Joe CAN go down to his local dealer/Big Box Store/online to spend the same amount of money on that same snowblower and get a safer, more powerful (maybe?), machine with several other reliable features like I mentioned.
> 
> Specifically, what am I missing?


Actually, yesterday is looking really good, because you are missing a LOT! 
What you are missing is build quality..modern safety features arent really part of the discussion IMO, when it comes to build quality..What I am talking about, when comparing the "bottom of the line" then, versus now, is today's bottom of the line gets you quality like this:

_"This item arrived with major problems with the drive mechanism. All belts and the friction wheel disintegrated due to poor materials and the drive system failed from the first attempt to use it. I contacted Stanley and was given many instructions on how to find out and replace whatever was wrong myself. After replacing items at my own expense and considerable time, the repair did not fix the problem and failed immediately again. They would not take it back. It has been at a repair center since then and I have only snowplowed about 50 feet with it. As of this date I still have no resolution to the problem. My next call is to dispute the purchase to get it returned."
_source: https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Commercial-Blower-Electric-45-Inch/product-reviews/B00527DF08

_"Falling apart! I've had it for 12 months and 3 weeks. The three weeks is important because in the past three weeks it has started to fall apart. Several metal bits have snapped. I do not mean the shear pins (those are *supposed* to snap. These are metal bits which are in places which should not be experiencing stress from heavy snow: The metal guide for the bar which turns the snow chute from the left side to the right. The spring which engages the auger (the blades!). The screws which hold the snow chute up. Can't get customer service on this, because I've passed the 1-year warranty mark. Did I get a bad unit? Maybe, but the lack of willingness to support the product is telling. I will never buy anything from this company again."

_Eight reviews here:
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Smart-...e=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&showViewpoints=0

More here:
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Smart-...e=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&showViewpoints=0

And here:





And here:
https://www.amazon.com/Powerland-PD...ByStar=critical&showViewpoints=0&pageNumber=1

Thread in this forum:
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...orum/7586-36-inch-stanley-already-broken.html

and the list goes on..


The buyers of that "bottom of the line" 4hp Ariens in 1973 didn't have these issues with their brand-new $1,500 (in todays dollars) machine..many 1960's and 70's Ariens snowblowers are still running fine today, 40 to 50 years later..

Meanwhile, today, many people buy new snowblowers that are broken and useless _before the first use!
_they are useless junk when brand new..

Thats the kind of quality disparity we are talking about..
its waaaaay more than just differences in sheet metal thickness..everything on the machine, every part, is of much lower quality on many of today's low-end machines..

(again, im not talking about modern Ariens, Toro, Honda, or many of the known and respected brands..im comparing the "low end" of 1973, to the low end of today..the lowend of 1973 is of much better quality than the lowend of today..)

Scot


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

For more reading on this topic..there is a loooong thread here:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...scussion/1364-made-usa-versus-made-china.html

IMO, that thread is most useful now for keeping track of the many "100% made in China" brand names, so people can be warned not to buy them. (new brand names pop up every year.)

And I have my little rant on my Ariens page: 

The Ariens 1960's and 1970's Sno-Thro info site.

That's a bit dated now, written in 2009..and since 2009 I have had to pretty much give up on the Harbor Freight Predator engine battle..it can't be won. 
I dont even comment on the Predator re-power threads anymore..
but for myself, I will still hold out for US-only quality..
Which is why my two 1971 Ariens snowblowers and my 1964 Wheel Horse garden tractor will probably last me the rest of my life..
and if they dont, I will upgrade to a 1985 Ariens and a 1975 Wheel Horse! 

Scot


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

seriously, who cares if a blower lasts 50 years? (I sure as heck aint gonna be blowing snow for 50 years anyway)Id much rather get a new one with better features every 15-20 years anyway. The old machines are a pain to start, loud and vibrate horribly. I know cause I had a late 70's toro 724 and it was a pain to start, clogged a lot with wet snow and was so darn heavy to move around. Not what I would call enjoyable.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

> (again, im not talking about modern Ariens, Toro, Honda, or many of the known and respected brands..im comparing the "low end" of 1973, to the low end of today..the lowend of 1973 is of much better quality than the lowend of today..)
> 
> Scot


I couldn't agree more. The low end 43 years ago is certainly not the low end of today. In fact, that 4hp Ariens was about $310. Considering the median family income back in 1973 was $12,000, that snowblower was 2.6% of their yearly income. That is hardly a low end purchase and would price a lot of people out of the snow blower market

Today, that price would be about $1,650-$1,700, hence why manufacturers have found a way to produce machines to match a price point. I'm going to assume that we can all agree that a $1,650 snow blower is in no way a low end machine today. In fact, it's about 3% of the average family income. So I guess a low end machine 40+ years ago would be right in the middle of the pack today.

Today, everyone wins. The family out in Minnesota that has a combined income of less than the median can now buy a snow blower that will move a good amount of snow. It may not be up to the standard of the low end machines 40+ years ago, (there were no low end machines though) but for the price they are paying that really isn't realistic. And the manufacturer wins by simply making a profit and employing more people. (Yes, I know those machines are built over seas, however, there are other jobs here in the good old U.S.A. that depend on the design, sales, shipping, and maintenance of those machines.)

So I guess to compare the low end of yesterday to the low end of today, really isn't an apples to apples comparison. Those machines were not priced as low end, because they weren't. Just like today's middle of the road machines are not priced like a Powermate for $499.99 at Home Depot.

I would love to move the conversation away from the low end of today, and move on to making more realistic comparisons. The middle of the road machine 40+ year ago according to the above brochure was $400. That gave you a 6hp engine and a 24" bucket. Today, that would cost just over $2000. How does a $2000 machine today compare to that 1973 Ariens pictured above? I'm guessing that today's machine wins, but I could be wrong. And, to dismiss the standard safety features of today is totally wrong in my opinion. The features cost money to manufacture and are definitely built into the price and effect the reliability of the machine.


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

Remembering back a few years ago when I owned a larger property and one of my neighbors bought a brand new Honda 32" blower.
He always liked to remind me how much better his snowblower was than my 5hp 1951 Gravely L with a later model snowblower attachment that I bought for $225.00
Cosmetically, it looked like a rusted old heap, but it was very well maintained mechanically.
During the winter, my usual response was to say "Let's see if your Honda is still blowing snow in 60 years".
One day he came over to gloat and realized that my driveway was already cleared with my newly acquired 4ft snow blade.
I simply said "Oh, that's right, you can't attach a 4ft snow blade to your Honda, can you ?"

He never bragged about his Honda again. 
Was his Honda a better performing snowblower ? Of course it was, but mine was fun to use, I could choose to blow or plow, and it was quite the conversation starter.

I think there are some people who spend a lot of money on a new snowblower/mower/tiller/etc... and at some level in their psyche, need validation that their expensive purchase bought them a machine that is in every way better than a vintage machine that other people use year after year, decade after decade.


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## GAR (Nov 7, 2014)

I should ad this, some people find pleasure in finding, restoring and using their vintage machines. It's a hobby, one many people Pride themselves at. I have been working on small engine machines for years..I have restored countless vintage engines, tractors, snowblowers, mower, tillers...etc. .And I can tell you this for a fact. Today's machines are not built to last, they are built with inexpensive parts. 

You want year after year reliability....You want a machine you can hand down to your son...Then get yourself a 60s-70s snowblower...I will tell you what, I would eat your hat if the snowblower you buy today will even be around in 15 years....

So, my opinion about the new vs old.....I will stick to my old classics


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

NJHonda said:


> seriously, who cares if a blower lasts 50 years? (I sure as heck aint gonna be blowing snow for 50 years anyway)Id much rather get a new one with better features every 15-20 years anyway.


What better features are you referring to ?

Auto turn ? Don't need it, just put some muscle into it.
Heated grips ? That's what mittens are for.
Better tires with more grip ? Throw on some chains
Remote chute/deflector controls ? Manual crank/deflector is good enough for me
Faster reverse speeds ? I'm in no hurry
EFI ? A properly maintained flat head motor starts easily and lasts a long time.
Quieter ? Wear ear muffs if it's too loud, keeps my ears warm too !
Throws farther ? 10-15 feet is all I need
Clogs less ? Never had a problem with clogging myself
No silly friction wheel slippage ? Never experienced that
Lights ? I only blow snow in the daytime.

I'm sure there are many more.


Of course your opinions of these features may differ from mine and that's ok.
Different needs call for different features.
My 1950's Gravely was a hoot to use, 5 horsepower and 510 lbs (with blower). Tons of low end torque on that beast. 
I actually enjoyed plowing more though, looks like fun huh ?

"not mine, but almost identical to my old setup"


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

Russ, all you would have to do it to pilot a new blower and you will see what I mean. Just like a new car as compared to an old one. Remember the first time you got power windows or power locks or power seats in a car? Before them, you swore you would never need em and were useless. After you actually have them, you won't ever go back to manual windows and locks and seats. 

Same thing


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

absolutely! I do too. Like I said I have three rare classic musclecars I restored and enjoy. 
But to say your restored 1960's blower is 'better' then a new one is just plain ludicrous. The old one is way cooler, yes but better, no



GAR said:


> I should ad this, some people find pleasure in finding, restoring and using their vintage machines. It's a hobby, one many people Pride themselves at. I have been working on small engine machines for years..I have restored countless vintage engines, tractors, snowblowers, mower, tillers...etc. .And I can tell you this for a fact. Today's machines are not built to last, they are built with inexpensive parts.
> 
> You want year after year reliability....You want a machine you can hand down to your son...Then get yourself a 60s-70s snowblower...I will tell you what, I would eat your hat if the snowblower you buy today will even be around in 15 years....
> 
> So, my opinion about the new vs old.....I will stick to my old classics


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

Exactly. A machine from today at $2000 will do much more work then a $400 machine from 40 years ago. Not even close




Smolenski7 said:


> I would love to move the conversation away from the low end of today, and move on to making more realistic comparisons. The middle of the road machine 40+ year ago according to the above brochure was $400. That gave you a 6hp engine and a 24" bucket. Today, that would cost just over $2000. How does a $2000 machine today compare to that 1973 Ariens pictured above? I'm guessing that today's machine wins, but I could be wrong. And, to dismiss the standard safety features of today is totally wrong in my opinion. The features cost money to manufacture and are definitely built into the price and effect the reliability of the machine.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

> I have restored countless vintage engines, tractors, snowblowers, mower, tillers...etc. .And I can tell you this for a fact. Today's machines are not built to last, they are built with inexpensive parts.


Gar, you obviously do great work. I have seen your posts and pictures of the tractors and snowblowers you restore; they are all amazing. I wish you lived near me, I would buy anything from you in a heart beat. Could you be specific about the inexpensive parts that are found in $1,700 snowblowers? Personally, I have an Ariens 24" Deluxe (about $950) that has a cast iron gear case and starts on the first pull every November.

I don't pretend to think that it won't need a little maintenance. I just recently spot painted some rust on the shoot and inside the bucket and applied a little red Loctite to the auger and traction cable's lock nuts after the first year. However, it starts on the first pull every November, never clogs (even the slush at the end of the driveway spits out), and throws the heavy white stuff far enough out of the way that it isn't a problem any more.




> 5hp 1951 Gravely L with a later model snowblower attachment


russkat...That's super cool, and a feature I bet some people would buy if Ariens, Toro, or Simplicity came out with it. I think the Troy-Bilt Flex is the only thing on the market that I know of that might even come close to having that type of flexibility, but even it doesn't have a plow.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Smolenski7 said:


> How does a $2000 machine today compare to that 1973 Ariens pictured above? I'm guessing that today's machine wins, but I could be wrong. And, to dismiss the standard safety features of today is totally wrong in my opinion. The features cost money to manufacture and are definitely built into the price and effect the reliability of the machine.


$2k today will buy you an Ariens Platinum 24SHO EFI or a Honda HS724 (on sale).


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

NJHonda said:


> absolutely! I do too. Like I said I have three rare classic musclecars I restored and enjoy.
> But to say your restored 1960's blower is 'better' then a new one is just plain ludicrous. The old one is way cooler, yes but better, no


Yes..sometimes..but you have to specify which new models you are comparing to the old classic models..
because depending on which new models you are talking about:

"The old one is cooler, yes, but better, no." can be true.

"The old one is cooler, yes, but also waaaaaaaay better." can also be true! 

Comparing any classic 60's or 70's snowblower to a "mid range" or "Pro" model today..any current snowblower at about the $1,000 price point or higher, then yes, "The old one is way cooler, yes but better, no" does actually apply..

But if comparing any classic 60's or 70's snowblower to the low-end models of today, it is in fact entirely true that many of the old models are FAR superior in build quality, reliability, and performance, even when factoring in decades of use, when compared to many brand-new $400 to $500 machines..

My 1971 Ariens, which I paid $250 for in 2009:










Is actually, factually, a far superior machine in quality, reliability, performance, and longevity than quite a few *new* low-end $500 models available today:










Even when factoring in 40 years of use on the older machine..its *still* better at 40 years old..
There are many new machines that are junked after 1 year of use, and many dont make it to 5 years..the quality can be actually _that_ low.

So, in these discussions, its important to specify exactly what you are comparing..
its never accurate to say, in a general sense: "new snowblowers are better than old snowblowers" or "old snowblowers are better than new snowblowers"..sometimes both can be true, and both can be false..it depends.

Scot


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

I have a 50 yr old machine, did the usual mods and upgrades, suicide clutch is now a dead man clutch, ether way i'm dead. Original engine, built like brick s---------e. Should outlast me.
Sid


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

Ill take that bet. Even though the crappy Powersmart from today is low end, its bet it will start easier, and blow snow further and faster then your 71 Ariens. 




sscotsman said:


> But if comparing any classic 60's or 70's snowblower to the low-end models of today, it is in fact entirely true that many of the old models are FAR superior in build quality, reliability, and performance, even when factoring in decades of use, when compared to many brand-new $400 to $500 machines..
> 
> My 1971 Ariens, which I paid $250 for in 2009:
> 
> ...


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

NJHonda said:


> Russ, all you would have to do it to pilot a new blower and you will see what I mean. Just like a new car as compared to an old one. Remember the first time you got power windows or power locks or power seats in a car? Before them, you swore you would never need em and were useless. After you actually have them, you won't ever go back to manual windows and locks and seats.
> 
> Same thing


I just prefer using older equipment, it does not matter to me if a snowblower is slower, noisier, or more difficult to handle.

That mindset carries over to many other aspects of my daily life, but not all.

My '81 Mercedes 240d is also slow (67 hp) and noisy (diesel), but it is pleasure to drive and has manual windows. Many experts think it may have the simplest and best designed climate control system ever offered on a car.

Some of my power tools are 70-80 years old (table saw/band saw), but they work flawlessly and I still have all my fingers.

My microwave oven is from 1977, still works great and does all I need it to do and nothing more.

Don't get me started about cars, new cars are safer and have better fuel economy, no question.
But when my "new car" is now out of warranty and the climate control system display goes out, I'm most likely going to be forced to replace the entire unit at a cost of $2,743.18 or some other ridiculous figure.
No thanks !


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

NJHonda said:


> Ill take that bet. Even though the crappy Powersmart from today is low end, its bet it will start easier, and blow snow further and faster then your 71 Ariens.


...Except that's not what Sid (I'm assuming you're replying to his post) said. He made no claims about ease of starting or performance, he said it will *last longer*.

That seems to be what this thread really is about: there's all this arguing about which machine is "better" but the arguments really seem to reflect people's priorities about durability vs. features. If you like features, naturally you'll like a newer machine... the old ones clearly had fewer goodies. Fewer safety features too, if that matters to you.

What's less clear is whether the newer machines will last as long as the early ones - to know the answer with 100% surety would require a crystal ball which none of us has. But my opinion as a wannabe-engineer (which along with a few bucks will get you a cup of coffee) is that the newer ones won't last as long as the "classics".

Re the specific issue of starting, I'm not sure how any 'blower could start "better" than on the first pull, and all the machines I've ever owned (ranging from 15 to about 40 years old) all started on the first pull!


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

well said ELaw.


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

actually his post said... "build quality, reliability, and performance," so performance is definitely one of his points. 




ELaw said:


> ...Except that's not what Sid (I'm assuming you're replying to his post) said. He made no claims about ease of starting or performance, he said it will *last longer*.
> 
> That seems to be what this thread really is about: there's all this arguing about which machine is "better" but the arguments really seem to reflect people's priorities about durability vs. features. If you like features, naturally you'll like a newer machine... the old ones clearly had fewer goodies. Fewer safety features too, if that matters to you.
> 
> ...


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

I do agree that the new China special is not going to last as long as a US built one from 50 years ago but seriously, it will last at least 10-15 years with proper maintenance and for $400 that still a low cost per year of the new one. Though not as cheap as yours 




ELaw said:


> ...Except that's not what Sid (I'm assuming you're replying to his post) said. He made no claims about ease of starting or performance, he said it will *last longer*.
> 
> That seems to be what this thread really is about: there's all this arguing about which machine is "better" but the arguments really seem to reflect people's priorities about durability vs. features. If you like features, naturally you'll like a newer machine... the old ones clearly had fewer goodies. Fewer safety features too, if that matters to you.
> 
> ...


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

> That seems to be what this thread really is about: there's all this arguing about which machine is "better" but the arguments really seem to reflect people's priorities about durability vs. features. If you like features, naturally you'll like a newer machine... the old ones clearly had fewer goodies. Fewer safety features too, if that matters to you.


Yes, I agree. I started this thread hoping to learn why guys really like those older machines vs. today's newer snowblowers. I figured it really had to with the fact that many of them are still going. That's why I have asked for specific reasons why an older machine will last way longer than the Ariens 24" Deluxe in my garage. However, I haven't seen any specific reasons. I have read a lot of responses about guys touting their 40+ old machines as still blowing snow today, but no one has posted *why* it is still running and why today's machines just won't be 2-4 decades from now.

I have heard that the metal is thinner today. Ok, that's awesome, that's a specific reason why today's machines might rust out sooner than something built 40+ years ago. However, I have also heard that the older machines start right up on the first pull. Well, my machine starts on the first pull too. In fact, my dad's 13 year old Simplicity started on the first pull last spring after having been sitting for 2 years collecting dust. Granted, I made sure it was drained of all fuel (I even physically drained the carb. too) before sitting, but it is started right up. It was great! 

So, someone who is "in the know" tell me, for example, what makes the transmissions on today's middle of the road machines less than what can be found on a comparable machine with respect to cost that is 40+ years old. Someone tell me why today's engines won't last, or why some of the newer features are just problems waiting to happen when compared to that $400 Ariens from 1973. I would love to know.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

This is a neat thread Smolenski7 and you ask good questions.

IMO, Starting capability is more dependent on the OPE-user rather than the OPE itself. I have 3 vintage machines that wouldn't start for crappola when I acquired them. Now they hop-to-life with 1-2 pulls. Now keep in mind that there's not an "Easy button" (_i.e. snake-oil, modification, etc._) that makes a machine run like a top...takes a bit of mechanical knowledge / ability which can be learned. Even newer machines can quickly become a bear to start without proper maintenance.

From an investment perspective, it's hard to go wrong with a classic *if you're mechanically inclined*. I paid $35 for this machine (_I think I'm in it for $200...most spent on a fuel tank_). It has a tractor transmission with a differential; turns on a dime (go to the 2:20 mark).






Speaking of transmissions and auger gear boxes, classic machines use cast iron housings...rather than pot-metal or plastic.

Once I restore this machine and IF I wish to sell it, I'll be in the black and I'll have had great enjoyment restoring and using it.

New machines depreciate considerably however if you don't have the faculties to maintain &/or bring a machine back from the dead, it's probably your best bet if you don't have a friend/family member that can help you out if you're stuck....usually in the middle of a snowstorm! :icon_smile_big:


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

Great points. Today's cars was thinner metal then 50 years ago yet rust out is basically a thing of the past.. I don't buy the 'new ones will rust out faster' thing either. 




Smolenski7 said:


> Yes, I agree. I started this thread hoping to learn why guys really like those older machines vs. today's newer snowblowers. I figured it really had to with the fact that many of them are still going. That's why I have asked for specific reasons why an older machine will last way longer than the Ariens 24" Deluxe in my garage. However, I haven't seen any specific reasons. I have read a lot of responses about guys touting their 40+ old machines as still blowing snow today, but no one has posted *why* it is still running and why today's machines just won't be 2-4 decades from now.
> 
> I have heard that the metal is thinner today. Ok, that's awesome, that's a specific reason why today's machines might rust out sooner than something built 40+ years ago. However, I have also heard that the older machines start right up on the first pull. Well, my machine starts on the first pull too. In fact, my dad's 13 year old Simplicity started on the first pull last spring after having been sitting for 2 years collecting dust. Granted, I made sure it was drained of all fuel (I even physically drained the carb. too) before sitting, but it is started right up. It was great!
> 
> So, someone who is "in the know" tell me, for example, what makes the transmissions on today's middle of the road machines less than what can be found on a comparable machine with respect to cost that is 40+ years old. Someone tell me why today's engines won't last, or why some of the newer features are just problems waiting to happen when compared to that $400 Ariens from 1973. I would love to know.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

NJHonda said:


> Great points. Today's cars was thinner metal then 50 years ago yet rust out is basically a thing of the past.. I don't buy the 'new ones will rust out faster' thing either.


Consider the fact that with thin stamped steel, "surface rust" is actually consuming a quantifiable portion of the bulk material.

In 1970, China accounted for less than 3% of world's steel production. (US was the #1 producer with about 25%)

Today, China floods the world market with more than 50% of their cheap steel...I wonder how much of it finds its way onto shiny-new OPE? :icon-shrug:


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## thool (Jul 25, 2016)

I have a 1977 MTD Yard Man: 26" 8 HP tecumseh sno-king. I love the machine but sometimes wonder if it is worth getting something newer. A few factors always steer me back to my current machine.

First, the metal on newer units is almost always thinner, and you can verify by pressing on some of the sheet metal and watching for deflection. Some manufacturers added ribbing to fortify. My current machine has two plastic parts: the covering over the belts, and the fuel tank!

Second, I am not a big fan of the modern chute controls and features. I've seen control handles that swing the chute, one had a small motor...I have a screw drive crank. Also heated handles? I have warm gloves!

Third, cost! I have a REAL HARD time giving up a perfectly good old machine for something north of $1000, and what benefit would I get out of that expenditure? Am I going to shave significant time off my task? Is it going to be far more reliable than my current blower (mine breaks down about once every 3 years)? Are parts going to be less expensive? Is the engine going to be easier to work on? Am I going to smile more? Are there any "sealed units" that can't be serviced? Will I get another 40 years out of it?

Thanks but no thanks. I wouldn't even trade mine even for a new snow blower.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

it really has been fun reading this post but I really don't see a clear winner. stick with what works for you, its your cash so make yourself happy with whichever ( old or new ) machine you purchase


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

detdrbuzzard said:


> it really has been fun reading this post but I really don't see a clear winner. stick with what works for you, its your cash so make yourself happy with whichever ( old or new ) machine you purchase


It's not about choosing a winner. It's about what makes older machines so desirable and explaining the specific reasons why.

Maybe I can make a list? So far I've seen a few reasons, but not many:
1. *Thicker steel* that in theory might help prevent rust out compared to today's thinner stamped steel.
2. *Cast iron gear box.* Although, my Ariens's gear box is cast iron. I can't speak of other manufacturer's though.
3. *Less plastic*. 

I'm not 100% sure having plastic parts on a snowblower that is exposed to pretty harsh conditions is a bad thing, however. My Ariens 24" Deluxe has some plastic, but not much. The cover over the head light assembly is a thick clear plastic, the belt cover, gas tank, and much of the "shroud" of the engine is plastic. 

The plastic over the head light assembly is a very thick clear plastic. Although I don't think it would ever happen to me, I have to think that this is a safety feature since glass can obviously break into very sharp pieces pretty easily. In addition, I think many guys around here would agree that a plastic gas tank is superior to a metal one. Finally, although I'm not 100% confident in my next statement, I have to think that a plastic engine shroud has got to be superior to a metal one. It will not rust, still protect the engine, and not get hot (another safety feature?).

I can't think of a good reason why the belt cover is plastic. Maybe this is something that an old "classic" machine might have over something relatively new?


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

Sometimes (in my case, perhaps others), it's just that I enjoy using vintage equipment.
Be it a snowblower, lawn mower, band saw, turntable, tape deck, welder, car, motorcycle, or boat.
Vintage equipment has a soul and that can't be explained.


Oh... and for the record my main blower this winter will be a mid 2000's Honda HS928 with tracks.
I only buy vintage equipment that is in mint, original condition. Preferably from the original owner.
I have not run across a vintage machine in the past year that I'm interested in, but I keep my eyes open.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

" It's not about choosing a winner. It's about what makes older machines so desirable and explaining the specific reasons why."
for me I guess it would be price and the challenge of if I can find a machine I desire on the cheap


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

FYI a plastic fuel tank is a way better idea then a steel one.Water in the gas will rust out a steel tank and will be effect a plastic one. 
If you used a new one, you would happily trade. TRUST ME,. I was thinking like you to til I got a new machine last year.




thool said:


> I have a 1977 MTD Yard Man: 26" 8 HP tecumseh sno-king. I love the machine but sometimes wonder if it is worth getting something newer. A few factors always steer me back to my current machine.
> 
> First, the metal on newer units is almost always thinner, and you can verify by pressing on some of the sheet metal and watching for deflection. Some manufacturers added ribbing to fortify. My current machine has two plastic parts: the covering over the belts, and the fuel tank!
> 
> ...


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## ctdave (Sep 11, 2015)

NJHonda said:


> FYI a plastic fuel tank is a way better idea then a steel one.Water in the gas will rust out a steel tank and will be effect a plastic one.
> If you used a new one, you would happily trade. TRUST ME,. I was thinking like you to til I got a new machine last year.


 plastic tank can be better as it will not rust...that being said, the st504 that I grabbed that was being thrown away (nothing wrong with it) had a small plastic tank. I put on an old steel tank from a 1971 that I had, that has no rust, so I could have twice the fuel capacity. so it depends on how it is taken care of.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

I agree 100% about plastic tanks but it brings a thought to mind...

Over the years I've owned maybe 5 or 6 Tecumseh engines with metal fuel tanks and always thought they were aluminum because none ever had a speck of rust, on the inside or outside, in spite of a few of them having been dented or scratched pretty badly. But thinking about it, I also remember the material was pretty thin and aluminum of that thickness would be very weak.

Has anyone ever tried putting a magnet to one of those tanks to check?


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

For me , i just like keeping some thing alive that is truly one hundred percent made in the good all usa.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

for me, i love the chassis quality of the older machines like the ariens, but i think engines such as honda clones are dramatically better then the old l heads, and if it was nt for these engines existing, we would see a lot more of these ariens being scrapped. its about giving them a second chance at life and not scrapping them, which is part of the reason i hate clone bashers, its like people like sscotsman consider it a sin to throw a clone on and would apparently rather see them being scrapped, but in my eyes its a second chance for many of these older machines thst would have otherwise been scrapped. like russkat mentioned above, every chassis is special and has a soul




"Vintage equipment has a soul and that can't be explained."


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

43128 said:


> its like people like sscotsman consider it a sin to throw a clone on and would apparently rather see them being scrapped,


For the record, I have never once said, suggested or even thought that "I would rather see them scrapped".
If you don't know what someones opinion on a topic is, don't just assume or guess..you will probably be wrong.

Scot


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## Boosted3g (Oct 9, 2016)

I'm all about restoring old machines but I leave that to collectors. If it is going to be my everyday driver it needs to perform. I see no purpose in using a machine that is out performed in every way. If everyone ran a machine into the ground until it would no longer run and performed all of its maintenance along the way who would build, service, and sell machines. I'm willing to bet that more american jobs would be saved if machines were serviced at the dealer and traded in rather than holding onto it for generations. If I ran every piece of equipment I owned until it physically would not function any longer then I would buy almost nothing. I know a lot of small engine repair shops closed near me. Just something to think about. If you trade up every 5 years or so the costs are not outrageous and chances are you won't encounter any major issues.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

I was a bit of a spectator in the "old vs new" snowblower debate, until I actually disassembled a few vintage ariens machines. The difference in build quality is not only found in the thickness of metal, but the quality of every little thing that holds everything together (quality bushings, thick metal cables vs modern thin wires, automotive style differentials, etc.). I can't really quantify my argument here, but I just get a gut feeling that these old machines are something special.


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

... and many of these manufacturers in the 50's, 60's, and 70's had their own tooling.
They cut their own gears, cast their own gear boxes, etc...
Back in those days, people expected their equipment to last for decades and the manufacturers knew this and quality was paramount.
It was not a throw away society, even your small appliances you had repaired, not replaced.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

russkat said:


> It was not a throw away society, even your small appliances you had repaired, not replaced.


My Great Uncle (my Grandmother's brother) had a TV and appliance sales/repair shop in my hometown of Waverly, NY. His sign is still there today:











His shop operated in the 1950's, 60's and into the 70's (I remember it from my childhood in the 70's)
He retired and closed the shop probably around 1975..Fortunately he was ready to retire anyway, but that was also about the time such a profession became obsolete. today, you cant make a living doing TV and appliance repairs, the job no longer exists.

Scot


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

Stang said:


> I was a bit of a spectator in the "old vs new" snowblower debate, until I actually disassembled a few vintage ariens machines. The difference in build quality is not only found in the thickness of metal, but the quality of every little thing that holds everything together (quality bushings, thick metal cables vs modern thin wires, automotive style differentials, etc.). I can't really quantify my argument here, but I just get a gut feeling that these old machines are something special.



Great post!

I would love for someone to explain how the quality of bushings has changed (or not, I guess people can disagree) since the early 70's. Something that is quantifiable would be great.

The quality of the Drive and Auger Cables is something that I have thought about in the past. My father's "older" Simplicity has more substantial cables than my current Ariens. The specific differences are escaping me at the moment. However, I don't know if this is just a design difference between Simplicity and Ariens, or if general quality of the cables themselves has degraded over time? I have a feeling it's the latter.

I know absolutely nothing about the differentials. Can some explain how this has changed over the last 40+ years?


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

sscotsman said:


> My Great Uncle (my Grandmother's brother) had a TV and appliance sales/repair shop in my hometown of Waverly, NY.
> 
> 
> His shop operated in the 1950's, 60's and into the 70's (I remember it from my childhood in the 70's)
> ...


Scot...

When I moved to Colorado in 1978, there was a small TV repair shop (Ray's TV) in a small strip mall in the neighborhood.
It finally closed its doors just 3 years ago. When flat panel tv's took over the market 15 years ago, he did rather well repairing those. He eventually could not get individual parts for the flat panel tv's, just complete circuit boards that were very pricey, so when he added in his labor costs, it was cheaper for the customer to just buy a new one, than repair it.


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

Smolenski7 said:


> Great post!
> 
> I would love for someone to explain how the quality of bushings has changed (or not, I guess people can disagree) since the early 70's. Something that is quantifiable would be great.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's so much that the bearings were made better back then, bearings today are as good as they have ever been, but the manufacturers don't use the best bearings in every product line these days. Cut the quality a little bit here and a little bit there... add it all up and it equals larger profit margins.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

russkat said:


> I don't think it's so much that the bearings were made better back then, bearings today are as good as they have ever been, but the manufacturers don't use the best bearings in every product line these days. Cut the quality a little bit here and a little bit there... add it all up and it equals larger profit margins.



Ok, that makes sense. However, I find a lot of times people make general statements like that. The only difference this time is that we are making that statement with respect to the bearings found in today's snowblowers. I'm not saying it's not true, however, does anyone have any actual proof that the bearings used are "not up to snuff?"


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## courielmaster (Oct 14, 2016)

Just a though 

You can check on You tube the video of donyboy73, titled "What To Look For When Buying A Used Snowblower" (sorry, I'm not yet allowed to post links)

@1:20, this not so old snowblower is badly rusted through, my recently aquired 4x older Ariens just have surface rust :smiley-whacky017: Also not a single crack found on the Ariens 

So I guess this is the long term difference between light VS heavy steel guage.

I can't comment on the rest of the internal parts because I don't have any experience with modern snowblower. I bought an old one because I like to tear things appart and get them back to shape, so not fun for me to buy new. Oh and because it was only 40$ lol


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## ctdave (Sep 11, 2015)

russkat said:


> I don't think it's so much that the bearings were made better back then, bearings today are as good as they have ever been, but the manufacturers don't use the best bearings in every product line these days. Cut the quality a little bit here and a little bit there... add it all up and it equals larger profit margins.


 like what you said, it's about the money. corp's ,lets say make a machine that is expected to last maybe 10 years. why make a bearing expected to last 30? to expensive. they will make a bearing expected to last the same amount of time, and will make the other parts that are expected to last say 7-10 years ect...older machines were just built to last, not considering say to last just only 10 years ect.. plus I believe American steel was better all around. how many times has anyone noticed this even in screws and nuts in the past 10 years. you try to screw one tight or torque one and it will strip or break? I know I have many times. people also took pride in the quality of their work and or product they were making not so much anymore. this is just MHO of course. no way of knowing about the quality of steel unless you can get manufacturing specs, and the expected assumed lifetime that the steel was made to last.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

russkat said:


> Scot...
> 
> When I moved to Colorado in 1978, there was a small TV repair shop (Ray's TV) in a small strip mall in the neighborhood.
> It finally closed its doors just 3 years ago. When flat panel tv's took over the market 15 years ago, he did rather well repairing those. He eventually could not get individual parts for the flat panel tv's, just complete circuit boards that were very pricey, so when he added in his labor costs, it was cheaper for the customer to just buy a new one, than repair it.


Ray's TVs sounds familiar.. where was it at?


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

GoBlowSnow said:


> Ray's TVs sounds familiar.. where was it at?


Pierce & Coal Mine, just south of Columbine HS


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

hmmm. Maybe that is where I saw it when I drove by that area from time to time.


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

Growing up in the 60's and 70's our next door neighbor was an RCA tv repairman. Had an RCA truck and all. Made a great living too. Large single home with 2 acres in Bucks county pa. 
He retired in the late 70s'



sscotsman said:


> My Great Uncle (my Grandmother's brother) had a TV and appliance sales/repair shop in my hometown of Waverly, NY. His sign is still there today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

Ok, time for an updated list. I think we have come up with a few reasons why a classic snowblower might be more reliable/better than a comparably priced (factoring in inflation of course) new machine. Just for review, we have used a "low end" 1973 Ariens compared to a mid-range machine today. I think we are all in agreement that back in '73 there were no low end machines like today. Plus, after a little math, those "inexpensive" models 40+ years ago were actually pretty expensive, hence the reason why manufacturers have begun to sell truly cheap machines today. A snowblower in every driveway I suppose.

1. Thicker steal
2. Cast Iron gear boxes. (Although, like I have mentioned, all Ariens models have cast iron gear boxes today.)
3. More robust parts, like bushings. (This makes a lot of sense, but nobody has been able to offer up undeniable, concrete proof of this.)
4. Thicker metal cables, vs modern thin wires.

It's not an exhaustive list, and to be honest, I'm really not convinced that today's machines are inferior/less reliable. I'm certainly open to it being true, but because posters are not providing true specifics, I'm starting to think that guys love the nostalgia of yesterday. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I'm guilty of it too from time to time, however, I also think it clouds us from reality. For example, Ariens has started to sell machines with EFI, and are built to tighter tolerances than anything produced 40+ years ago. All things that would lead me (an elementary school teacher) to believe that today's machines are very reliable.


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

There's no simple answer to this, partly because we each have our own yardsticks.

Take safety, today's machines are much safer with designs that keep your hands away from where bad things can happen. Machines will harmlessly clutch out and be ready to work when you go back to the controls. Contrast this with machines from 45 years ago where you engaged them and off they went. In between we had the kill managed machines that was festooned with limit and grip switches and killed the engine if you stepped out of line. From a safety standpoint it's hard not to see the progress.

How about discharge chutes? Once upon a time they were big bold and bullet proof. today's longer, narrower chutes do better job at controlling the snow stream and keeping it under pressure for maximum range. Plastic? At best the jury is still out. Steel cracks from time to time but welding is a readily accessible remedy if a new part is not available. IMO the plastic parts are an Achilles heal. When one fails in the out years will they be available/ affordable? How about those swanky rotate motors? Good luck getting one of those in 30 years. It's tough enough finding an electric starter for a common main stream B&S engine. I think these are to areas where sustainability is going to be a big downfall.

If better means joystick controls, heated handle grips and fuzzy dice you win, no contest. Unfortunately those do nothing to move snow, they just add failure points. We're back to sustainability. 

How about engines? With all of the fragmentation we have what will the spare part supply be? The saving grace may be the internet. In the day you could have a local distributor or major dealer who had a high percentage of the common needs on hand. That inventory base will not repeat for engine du jour. Fortunately if you know a website you can tap into the parts honey hole. Of course we're counting on brand survival and/or an active aftermarket.

I'm didn't even get to the running gear. I'd like to think value engineering saves the day but reality is not an engineering equation. Some of the overbuilt features in vintage equipment come into play when you get the unexpected chunk of ice, pavement, rock or off the hook major heavy storm. We can point to material thicknesses, shaft & bearings sizes etc. but it would take a careful deep dive to figure out who gets to go the distance.

I think in the end today's machines will see end of life for serviceability challenges that make supporting 28-50 your old Gilson's seem like a walk in the park!

Pete


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

Smolenski7 said:


> For example, Ariens has started to sell machines with EFI, and are built to tighter tolerances than anything produced 40+ years ago. All things that would lead me (an elementary school teacher) to believe that today's machines are very reliable.


Only time will tell... Let's revisit this thread in 40 years.


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

Spectrum said:


> I think in the end today's machines will see end of life for serviceability challenges that make supporting 28-50 your old Gilson's seem like a walk in the park!
> 
> Pete


Well said Pete !
I couldn't agree more.

It's been a year since I've been looking for a nicely kept Gilson locally, but still no luck.
... but I still keep my eyes open.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

> I think in the end today's machines will see end of life for serviceability challenges that make supporting 28-50 your old Gilson's seem like a walk in the park!


I think this is a great point!

Although I don't think it is totally fair to say that parts for today's machines will not be available in 2+ decades, I do think that the availability of parts should be a consideration when asking why so many people love these old snowblowers. Things break down, even the most reliable piece of power equipment, and finding the right part easily is a big deal.

With that said, however, to say that parts for today's snowblowers will not be around, or at least not easily found, is not exactly fair in my opinion. Obviously none of us have a crystal ball, (mine broke and I can't find a replacement part :laugh so we can't see into the future with 100% certainty. 

I would also say that many of the features that are on today's snowblowers and even lawn/garden tractors will become common place in just a few years. For example, Ariens's Easy Turn started out on just their top tier machines. From what I understand it had a few flaws, went through a redesign, and is now found on their deluxe models too. As a result, it is a feature found on many machines in their line-up, people are willing to pay for it, and has shown to be reliable. Because of this, parts will most likely be available for decades to come. Most people around here also think the same thing will happen with the engines with EFI.

I guess the moral of the story is, if consumers find a feature worth while, which means it works and performs a desirable function, then manufacturers are going keep providing it. For the sake of this post, that means parts will be available too. So, I guess readily available parts does need to factor into our conversation, but that doesn't mean parts for new machines won't be available many, many years from now.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

This was/is a good thread with some really good and passionate posts. As a culture we love all things nostalgic, especially as we grow older. Regarding Ariens moving to Auto-Turn I would speculate that it was a cost-cutting measure. It is likely cheaper for them to fit their machines with the General Transmission's DI300 than to fit a machine with additional levers, cables, clutches for so called "power steering." In fact Toro's approach on turning systems is the opposite, their lower end machine has Auto Turn and they use "power steering" systems on their higher line machines.

Future availability of parts is speculative we really don't know what will and won't be available. I am confident that Ariens, Honda, Toro and MTD will be in business for many years to come. However we don't know who might merge and who may no longer make snowblowers at that time. Only time will tell.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

Hey if anyone's curious why I'm so on about gold zinc-plated stuff, I was treated to a great example when I was working on my car yesterday.

Attached are two photos of some parts I installed on my car 2-1/2 years ago. As you can see in one photo they're brand-new, the other photo was taken yesterday. The one large part that's shiny and new in the earlier photo is rusted as badly as the ones in the other photo.

As I said, those parts are only 2-1/2 years old and aren't "cheap Chinese knockoffs" - they're genuine OEM parts.

The parts that those replaced were about 30 years old at the time, and were about as rusty as the current ones are now. In other words, the old parts had the same amount of rust after 30 years as these do after two and a half.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Even though I've never owned a "classic" snowblower I can see a difference between my 18 year old Toro and the current product. The plastic on mine seems higher quality. More important it came with the Suzuki commercial grade engine. The models after mine came with the Briggs Rtek which was cheaper and I'm sure the Chinese engines are cheaper still..I think it's all about keeping share holders happy. There is huge pressure on companies for this today. Short term profit stock market driven; typical of American corporate practice. Maybe that's why the only snowblower made here is Japanese! And the Honda singles are really not more expensive than Toro model for model....


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## Rich Speerz (Dec 14, 2020)

I'll cut to the chase. If I have a choice of buying a NOS 1971 Ariens - or a similar price point (adjusted for inflation) brand new Ariens of today I would pick the NOS '71 in a heart beat. I guarantee you that if you could some how dyno test each machine, the brand new Ariens of today would die way before the 1971 Ariens. The old ones were built tougher plain and simple. Harder steel, more steel, simpler yet more durable controls etc. etc. Oh the humanity that the 1971 doesn't have heated hand warmers.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@Rich,

Totally agree, my keeper lineup is two 10000 series Ariens, and a 7101 YardMan, circa 1970 .. solid metal machines, built to last more than a lifetime if cared for.

I also have a fairly recent 10HP Yard Machines which I brought back to life ... no quality comparison to the machines of the circa 1970 era.

I have repaired and sold many units, and hands down the units of old are mostly by far better made units, albeit minus the safety and some comfort features.

With that being said, regardless of what you have, its more of how you treat it, i.e., operate, maintain and store it, as to how long it will last.


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## Pete826 (Dec 1, 2020)

tdipaul said:


> El cheapo models not included, the machines from Honda, Ariens, Toro and Simplicity are as good as anything from the 60's/70's.
> 
> Plus they're better designed, better performing and more fun to operate.
> 
> ...


+1 👍


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

Smolenski7 said:


> I have read so many posts over the years from members on this forum, and even on MyTractorsForum, that the old machines were just built better than today's. I admit that I don't have much experience with any of the older blowers, but I can't imagine they were so much better than today that all of the manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves and just not show their faces in public.
> 
> I say this only because in the fields that I do know a bit more about (houses and automobiles) the same thing is said. However, if a person is truly looking at it objectively, today's houses and cars are far superior than anything built 40+ years ago. In fact, it's really not even close.
> 
> So, what made those old (classic) snowblowers so much better? The engine, transmission, auger....? Was it simply the consumer got more for his/her money? I'd like to know.


I prefer my old early 80's large frame cub cadet with a posi axle that allows for easy turning with a 16" impeller and 18" augers to the newer models. Its been rebuilt as it had a blown motor when i got it. Its 26" wide with an 11hp electric start motor.

With the impeller kit it will throw anything even slush and never has clogged


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

has anyone taken time to see how long this thread was sleeping before rich speerz made his one post


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

With this new forum format, it appears that it throws in older posts reflecting similar material, and people just respond without looking at the date ... thus waking up posts that are many years old, that were never locked for responses. I brought this up before, but it appears the moderators have no problem with people waking up posts that are many years old.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

I like the revisited threads. Its more efficient than answering the same old question in a new thread for the 50th time.

"Drain fuel or put in stabilizer?"
"Your thoughts on a 1989 Toro Powershift?"
"Single Stage vs Two Stage?"
"Do impeller kits work?"
"What type of oil do you use?"
"Is the 4x4 a gimmick?"
"Does Fluid Film work?"
"Help me pick a snow blower"

Allowing a new post for one of these above is almost insane because they've all been discussed in great depth already. 

Such would not be the case for threads for new models or technology, though.
.
.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

tdipaul said:


> El cheapo models not included, the machines from Honda, Ariens, Toro and Simplicity are as good as anything from the 60's/70's.
> 
> Plus they're better designed, better performing and more fun to operate.
> 
> ...


I'm out blowing snow, not taking pictures. But since a meal is on the line, I'll take some videos next time.
I can throw snow from my sidewalk across the street just barely to the edge of my neighbors lawn.
I'm fairly sure that is 40 feet.
Advances in auto and home technology are way much more than could be offered in a snowblower.
On the automotive front, I can tell you that I'd rather have my 1985 F-150 back than the 'technologically advanced' 2007 F-150 I have now.
So, what kind of hat is on the menu?
Here's one of ClassiCat, one of our esteemed members, proving the point.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

Its nice to see the 'ol Ariens working again but its not outperforming a Honda or an SHO there. 

I've a fleece Carhartt next to the toaster oven waiting


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

oneacer said:


> With this new forum format, it appears that it throws in older posts reflecting similar material, and people just respond without looking at the date ... thus waking up posts that are many years old, that were never locked for responses. I brought this up before, but it appears the moderators have no problem with people waking up posts that are many years old.


sadly some members do and report the post, they feel a new thread directed at the new user is better than reopening a old thread or this should be moved to a new thread . than many times someone googles something up, joins the site makes one post blasting what post they don't like and never comes back .
yes it's something this new software causes with recommended reading blown in every ones face


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Here's a data point...
I paid about $750 for my Toro 3000 GTS, on the high side because the Suzuki 47P engine + electric start was an upgrade. Now the best single stage they make is about the same price. It's 22 years later. How can they sell for the same price, and keep the same quality? I think most will know what I'm hinting at. Something has to give. Quality costs.

Toro Power Clear 821 QZE 21 in. 252 cc Single-Stage Self Propelled Gas Snow Blower with Electric Start-38757 - The Home Depot 

see same price, 8 hp vs mine has only 5...so what gives? Quality!


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Possibly C&C...competition and China.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

tdipaul said:


> Its nice to see the 'ol Ariens working again but its not outperforming a Honda or an SHO there.
> 
> I've a fleece Carhartt next to the toaster oven waiting


Mr. Cat dropped a line to say that was only a 5 horse in that video.
I've a 7 horse that has maybe 30 hours on it. It will throw as far, easily. More likely farther with the extra 2 horse.

'Someone post a link of a common 60's/70's machine in original form (no impeller kit) throwing snow 40-50 feet like a Honda and I'll eat my hat!' 
Well, you may have posted that 4 years ago, but now it's time to pay up!

Don't you believe your eyes? Or is it a 'deep fake'?
May I offer you some Grey Poo-pon Mustard to go along with that hat?
In closing, for the price differential between my Ariens and any Honda, not to mention the higher cost in repair parts for the Honda, one is left to wonder why anyone would pay more than they had to to get a job done.
I'd turn around to pick up a Honda on the side of the road, but that's about it.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

Dont me wrong, I like the old stuff. It's all I own for snow work! 

Cant wait to use this 1978 model below on Thursday. It would cost a lot to buy a new machine that could match it. While I also like my 1979 Toro, it can't match a new high-end machine, they have evolved a lot. 

I actually like Grey Poupon once in a while so please post up that link soon!


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

this is a great example of how far modern machines have come


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

russkat said:


> What better features are you referring to ?
> 
> Auto turn ? Don't need it, just put some muscle into it.
> Heated grips ? That's what mittens are for.
> ...


Wow that gets right down to the surface, just awesome!


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

detdrbuzzard said:


> " It's not about choosing a winner. It's about what makes older machines so desirable and explaining the specific reasons why."
> for me I guess it would be price and the challenge of if I can find a machine I desire on the cheap


I agree, but no matter what side of the fence your on - it sure beats shoveling!!!


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

tdipaul said:


> this is a great example of how far modern machines have come


Looks like a throw of fiddy feet plus, no?
How about a video of you masticating your chapeau?
And having just bought a Honda, I've noted that it will throw fiddy feet, put it doesn't throw as much snow as the Ariens in the throw.
Impartial observation of both units at work.


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## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

elpis37 said:


> I say this only because in the fields that I do know a bit more about (houses and automobiles) the same thing is said. However, if a person is truly looking at it objectively, today's houses and cars are far superior than anything built 40+ years ago. In fact, it's really not even close. Nox Vidmate VLC


I don't think there's much doubt that today's blowers perform better. But older blowers tended to be built of higher quality materials. Thicker metal, bearings instead of bushings, no plastic, etc.


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## Elfiero (Apr 9, 2019)

I could say many things both good and bad about the whole new vs. old thing. I will say this: Everyone likes the things they are most comfortable with. As far as the whole thicker metal, in some cases you are correct,in some cases, no. as far as less plastic, yes, but not for the reasons you insist on believing: the injection molding processes were such that it wasn't possible to use plastic cheaply the way it is done today( you can thank CNC machining for that). As far as comparing your snowblower to your car, Why? As far as engines, todays Honda clones have the TEC and B&S flat head, L engines beat hands down. As far as todays Tech, It has it's place, I am in my sixties and I don't know how many more years I will want to wrestle my older,(better built?) Simplicity around. So, in conclusion, older has it's place, but not with the younger crowd.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Stang said:


> I'll agree that today's automobiles are generally much, much better than their predecessors of yesteryear. However, I cannot agree that this is true with houses. Prewar houses were generally built with long term ownership of generations of families in mind and, in some cases, with materials you literally cannot get today (example: Old growth lumber from virgin forests). Postwar, the housing market adopted an assembly line mentality (starting with Levittown) and quality generally declined right up to the mcmansions we see today. Then there's character, which is subjective, but I will take 75+ year old masonry and clapboard wood over vinyl any day of the week.
> 
> Regarding blowers - it's clear to me that the 60s and 70s machines were of superior quality to today's machines designed to compete with imports.



I would pick your above post apart line by line if this was not a snowblower forum. Old construction in no way compares to today’s!


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

foggysail said:


> I would pick your above post apart line by line if this was not a snowblower forum. Old construction in no way compares to today’s!


Blanket statements are easy to pick apart when not taken as a whole representation. It, sadly, has become the preferred method of argument for certain political bents these days.
Nevertheless, for a particular task expected to be completed by any machine, exclusive of social trappings, the machine that completes the job at the most efficient cost and time is the superior machine.
With this basic tenet established, it is now a simple matter of running the numbers. We all agree that 5 = 5, 1 = 1.
Now, let us begin using numbers instead of beliefs to determine the answer.
Who'd like to go first?
Be sure to show your work!


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Rooskie said:


> Blanket statements are easy to pick apart when not taken as a whole representation. It, sadly, has become the preferred method of argument for certain political bents these days.


OHHhhhhh...............so you do not like blanket statements. Well at cost to Stang, I will illuminate for you.

I am in the apartment rental business. Our base units were reconstructed from old, run down buildings that would never have passed building codes of today prior to our major renovations. Building, electrical and plumbing codes prior to WWII for the most part didn't exist.

Consider the lucky residents who enjoyed heat for example because most of those prior to WWII did not. Those that did were mostly heated with steam from asbestos covered boilers and pipes fired with coal. Very few enjoyed hot water other than that heated on stoves. Insulation was none existent, 30 ampere electrical systems standard. Many of those old buildings even had knob and tubing wiring. And the beautiful wood clapboard siding was protected by many layers of lead paint that lasted at max 8-10 years before new paint was needed. And the painted interiors were also lead infested. And old structures around here were often built on rock walled foundations, not cement. Home build in areas that lacked city water and sewage and many were, water wells and cesspools for waste were necessary. Yeah.. great living! OK............you get the idea.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

foggysail said:


> OHHhhhhh...............so you do not like blanket statements. Well at cost to Stang, I will illuminate for you.
> 
> I am in the apartment rental business. Our base units were reconstructed from old, run down buildings that would never have passed building codes of today prior to our major renovations. Building, electrical and plumbing codes prior to WWII for the most part didn't exist.
> 
> Consider the lucky residents who enjoyed heat for example because most of those prior to WWII did not. Those that did were mostly heated with steam from asbestos covered boilers and pipes fired with coal. Very few enjoyed hot water other than that heated on stoves. Insulation was none existent, 30 ampere electrical systems standard. Many of those old buildings even had knob and tubing wiring. And the beautiful wood clapboard siding was protected by many layers of lead paint that lasted at max 8-10 years before new paint was needed. And the painted interiors were also lead infested. And old structures around here were often built on rock walled foundations, not cement. Home build in areas that lacked city water and sewage and many were, water wells and cesspools for waste were necessary. Yeah.. great living! OK............you get the idea.


Lemme guess: You're that fellow who carps about 'unsafe' old Ariens snowblowers, right?  
So based on your specific instances of the building industry, you can make a pretty nasty sounding scenario, no doubt.
Now, let's look at specific near-present date scenarios and lessee how that sounds:
Mobile homes being built with formaldehyde-laden ingredients, making any inhabitants deathly ill who dwell therein.
Two-part foam insulation used in homes that didn't cure properly and sickens all the residents.
'Advances' in water treatment that leeches lead out of old pipes.
But again, these are specifics.
I apologize for not conveying the point better.
My desired point was base economics: Used equipment that performs as well as new equipment is a hands-down winner due to lower initial costs.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Rooskie said:


> Lemme guess: You're that fellow who carps about 'unsafe' old Ariens snowblowers, right?
> So based on your specific instances of the building industry, you can make a pretty nasty sounding scenario, no doubt.
> Now, let's look at specific near-present date scenarios and lessee how that sounds:
> Mobile homes being built with formaldehyde-laden ingredients, making any inhabitants deathly ill who dwell therein.
> ...



WELL INDEED!!! Nice to see YOU avoiding blanket statements so you can now justify bitching about them ..... would you please share where I made mention of unsafe snowblowers of any make???? But keep up providing good reading along with your ‘’base economics’’ whatever that is supposed to mean.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

foggysail said:


> WELL INDEED!!! Nice to see YOU avoiding blanket statements so you can now justify bitching about them ..... would you please share where I made mention of unsafe snowblowers of any make???? But keep up providing good reading along with your ‘’base economics’’ whatever that is supposed to mean.


Hey, I give up.
You're a premium member.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Fascinating. 



















Carry on. 🍻


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Fascinating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Couldn't you rig a simple little seat on the back and ride it?


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Rooskie said:


> Hey, I give up.
> You're a premium member.


If you are going to ‘’give poop’’’ you have to also take ‘’poop.’’ Personally I don’t enjoy getting into one on ones where nobody wins. Let’s get back to snowblowers and enjoy sharing experiences


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Rooskie said:


> Couldn't you rig a simple little seat on the back and ride it?


I suppose I could... but why would I? Walking is good exercise.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

Wow! I can't believe this thread is still going. I started it 4 years ago just asking why older "classic" snowblowers are so well thought of compared to new machines. I thought that it would generate a debate about which are preferred (which is a different question), but I truly wanted to get a concrete handle (one free from personal bias) as to what makes those 40+ year old machines so well thought of and why new machines are blasted by so many.

I gather that Classic Machines were just all well built. There was no low end. They were not built to a price point. Even the least expensive model was "expensive" and not truly affordable to the average Joe until the 1980's when some manufacturers started to find ways to get a snow blower in every garage.

So, I'm going to try to summarize this forum as best I can with respect to its original intent. I'll start with the classic snowblower:
1. Thicker steel which prevents substantial rust.
2. No plastic anywhere.
3. Smaller parts (like bearings/bushings) and larger parts (like shafts) were of a more consistent and higher quality on all machines, not just medium to higher end units.
4. Spare parts are readily available.
5. Control cables were more robust.

On to newer snowblowers:
1. Discharge chutes are longer and thinner which helps throw the snow farther and the operator has more control of it. Some are plastic, but that doesn't seem to be a problem as long as the plastic is able to handle the job.
2. It's pretty common place to have "power steering" or "auto turn" on a new machine. That's a feature that has trickled down from high end machines to middle of the road units that definitely makes blowing snow easier.
3. Safety features. I know this may not help blow snow and some guys on this forum just don't care, but if all other things are equal, why wouldn't anyone choose the safer machine?
4. Faster speed controls, in particular in reverse. Faster speeds means the operator is outside in the cold less. Most people (not the guys on this forum) will think this is a positive.

I'm not sure either list is exhaustive; I probably missed something. I think it's pretty apparent though that the older machines are regarded as being more dependable because they were over engineered. Newer machines, although I think still expected to last 10-15 years without any major problems, are regarded as performing better and are easier to use....for the most part.

One thing that really wasn’t debated is the quality of the power plant between today’s machines and classics. Yes, some guys mentioned that their classic machine starts right up on the first pull, but other guys who own new machines said the same thing. In fact, I'm one of them. My 24" Ariens Deluxe is about 10 years old and has a B&S 250cc Polar Force engine attached to it, and it starts just as easily today as it did when I bought it. Is the lack of real debate because engines are just as dependable today as they were 40+ years ago? I would think that the engines on medium to premium machines are just as reliable, if not more so, than anything built 40+ years ago. I could be wrong though.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Well, the engines on my 50-60 year old blowers, core plug aerator, tiller are all running just fine.

The new engines I put on (B&S Snow and Predator 212) a couple don't have the years on them yet, will see in another 20-30 years what they are like, but probably wont be around anyways, lol ....

Engine operation failures, for the most part, can be attributed to the operator, and improper operation and lack of maintenance.

The newer machines are certainly less gauge metal, metal wire instead of metal rod controls, safety is nice and mandated, but cumbersome at times, and cast iron where now its aluminum, and on and on.

Electronic ignition is certainly a plus, and many older point systems can be easily converted.

I never payed for a snowblower, as all mine were free. The older ones are easy to work on. I have also revived many newer ones (20-30 years old), and sold them off.

All my keepers (3) are from the 70 era, and a Craftsman from like 85.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Smolenski7 said:


> Wow! I can't believe this thread is still going. I started it 4 years ago just asking why older "classic" snowblowers are so well thought of compared to new machines. I thought that it would generate a debate about which are preferred (which is a different question), but I truly wanted to get a concrete handle (one free from personal bias) as to what makes those 40+ year old machines so well thought of and why new machines are blasted by so many.
> 
> I gather that Classic Machines were just all well built. There was no low end. They were not built to a price point. Even the least expensive model was "expensive" and not truly affordable to the average Joe until the 1980's when some manufacturers started to find ways to get a snow blower in every garage.
> 
> ...





oneacer said:


> With this new forum format, it appears that it throws in older posts reflecting similar material, and people just respond without looking at the date ... thus waking up posts that are many years old, that were never locked for responses. I brought this up before, but it appears the moderators have no problem with people waking up posts that are many years old.


And that's why your thread is still running today!


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## InAlbertaAmI (Jan 2, 2022)

Maybe these old threads were higher quality and so last longer?

Note: I was skimming this thread and decided to join because of it. However I have frequented the site many times in the past. Great forum!!!

Regarding this thread, the post about 1970s costs vs today's costs was very informative. (See post #11)

I don’t have any good answers but just wanted to add some random (and incomplete) thoughts:

- “survivorship bias” is always at play. Untold numbers of products have been landfilled. Companies that produced great and awful products can and have gone out of business. Those machines often disappear. Early, inflation adjusted relatively expensive machines, owned by previous generations valuing repair over replace possibly extended the life of their machines.

- market growth is great and requires companies to build a sound reputation but at some point that growth levels off and companies need their customers to return. A product that lasts several generations without parts replacement isn’t profitable.

So wouldn’t those companies need to take market share from other companies or build cheaper in order to survive?


I love (old) threads like this one below. Lots of old snowblowers I’ve never even seen in my life. Which is critical to this very discussion of old vs new.


*Show me your vintage snowblower ads/brochures...* | Snowblower Forum









Show me your vintage snowblower ads/brochures...


I get a kick out of seeing the vintage snowblower ads/brochures, not just photos of old machines, but magazine ads and sales brochures. I can't be the only one ! Show 'em if you got em !!! Let's keep it to 1970's and older. If you want to reply, please don't "quote" a post with pics, we...




www.snowblowerforum.com


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Well I think most people except the more particular do it yourselfer types I guess are satisfied with modern machines. Here’s a data point though, in 1998 I bought my Toro for about $750, with the Suzuki engine & electric start (both extra cost options), today you cam get a similar but more powerful machine (721, 7 hp vs 5) for the same money. 25 years of inflation yet same price & better specs…where was the cost taken out???


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Smolenski7 said:


> I have read so many posts over the years from members on this forum, and even on MyTractorsForum, that the old machines were just built better than today's. I admit that I don't have much experience with any of the older blowers, but I can't imagine they were so much better than today that all of the manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves and just not show their faces in public.
> 
> I say this only because in the fields that I do know a bit more about (houses and automobiles) the same thing is said. However, if a person is truly looking at it objectively, today's houses and cars are far superior than anything built 40+ years ago. In fact, it's really not even close.
> 
> So, what made those old (classic) snowblowers so much better? The engine, transmission, auger....? Was it simply the consumer got more for his/her money? I'd like to know.


do you still wanna know??????
This thread was started 2106.25 days ago and counting.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

orangputeh said:


> do you still wanna know??????
> This thread was started 2106.25 days ago and counting.


Sure. It's a good thread. Keeping going.

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Smolenski7 said:


> Sure. It's a good thread. Keeping going.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


Please deposit $100 into my PP account first since I have to read all the responses before I commit to answering. 

Free if related to zelensky....


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

orangputeh said:


> Please deposit $100 into my PP account first since I have to read all the responses before I commit to answering.
> 
> Free if related to zelensky....


Sure. Can I pay in Rubels?

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

maybe he wants and all expenses paid trip the sbf reunion lol


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

havent read all the posts.

the older stuff was built better because people rewarded quality and most companies back in the old days were Mom and Pops and they had pride in their work.

now it's a fast food throwaway society and people just buy a new bling bling when the old one breaks. plus most companies are corporations and have to answer to shareholders.....


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I bought a Honda HS828 20 years ago and it is still a great machine. It is now being used by my son, and it blows as far as the new machines. It is easier to work on and made of better quality materials than the new models. It will likely still be blowing snow in another 20 years if maintained properly. So I guess I'm one of the few, that does care.
I do like the transmission release handles on the new HSS928 that allow the blower to be easily moved around in the garage. You can still buy quality, but it's not inexpensive nor has it ever been.


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