# Purchase Advice Please



## anthdan (Jan 8, 2012)

I have a two car driveway about 4 cars long. Looking to purchase first snowblower since current one (17 year old son) will be moving out soon. We live in Akron and get maybe two 8"+ snows per year. Due to proximity of neighbors driveway will only be able to throw to one side for maybe half the length of the driveay. Also, need to maneuver around daughters car parked in the driveway. After research have come down to Toro 418 or Toro 621.

Limited garage space so I like the size of the 418 and think it would be more maneuverable/easier to use then the 621 for the majority of snowfalls. Also think the 418 would be easier for my wife to use.

Questions:

Are the new 4 cycle engines as good/reliable as the previous 2 stroke?

Are the problems with the 180 carberator fixed with the 418?

Will I regret not upsizing to the 621? Don't think I will mind taking a little longer on the 8"+ snowfalls if the 418 will be easier/quicker for the 6"- snowfalls.

418 with electric start for $399 and the 621 recoil is $499 and 621 electric is $559

Thanks for the help.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Welcome*

Anthdan

Welcome to the forum. 

First, I don't know those machines. If you're talking average of 6"-8" snowfalls, I'd suggest a small 2 stage blower. Something in a 3.5 hp - 5 hp, 20" to 24" wide likely would do what you need just fine. I used a couple that size last year on my place and my kids place, they moved 8"-12" of snow just fine. Probably threw it 20'-25' except for the wet slushy stuff. Most will work just fine with 1"-8"+ snowfalls. Bigger machines want more snow, they don't do as well with the 1" snow than the smaller machines will.

As far as durability goes, I'm prejudiced. I happen to think the older machines and engines were built better than alot of the newer stuff. Heavier and more steel, cast iron engines vs sleeved aluminum, that kind of stuff. If you can find a good used machine, are able to do any repairs required along with general maintenance, IMO you'll end up with a more reliable machine in the long run and at less expense overall than some of the new ones.

If you look around the site here, you'll see quite a few people with 20-40 year old blowers that are still going strong. Usually there are a few wear items that initially need replacing then just general maintenace and you can see a lifetime machine. I personally have a few 25-35 year old machines at home that are running just fine. I bought them used and have gone through them replacing wear parts as needed. I have alot less than new price in any 3 or 4 of them and I expect they will outlast the new ones.

My opinion.


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## twofishy4u (Dec 6, 2011)

Get the bigger one or find a nice used toro CCR3650, the best single stage snowblower ever made, just remember it is a 2stroke and to mix oil/gas.


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## KerryAll (Oct 19, 2011)

I don't know if you're old like me (50's ), but I wouldn't consider anything without an electric start!


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## anthdan (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks. I am 52 and have pretty much decided on the electric start. Can't decide if the $160 for the 621 is worth it for the couple times each winter I might appreciate it.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

anthdan said:


> Thanks. I am 52 and have pretty much decided on the electric start. Can't decide if the $160 for the 621 is worth it for the couple times each winter I might appreciate it.


Look at it this way..will saving the $160 be worth it for the couple times a year the smaller snowblower isnt up to the task and you have a snowblower that you cant use? possibly forcing you to shovel? 

I say get the biggest machine you can afford, and have the space to store..you will be glad you have the extra power for the big storms..

the Toro single-stage machine are supposed to be excellent..most people consider them the best of the single stagers..Personally I would go with a 2-stage, but that Toro 621 electric will probably serve you well..

Scot


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## anthdan (Jan 8, 2012)

Or.... My Home Depot has left over Toro 221s for $419. Seems like a great deal but they have the two cycle engines.


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

I would agree with sscotsman..... If you can afford to go to a bigger single stage......just do it. Buying an inferior smaller snow blower will only cause you grief down the road. If you make the correct decision the first time.....you will be smiling big down the road when the next monster storm hits you ....







......... I am also 52 years old by the way..........


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## Marcintosh (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm an advocate of getting the biggest thing you can. You don't need to run it at full throttle and having it built to take the higher hp means it should last just about forever. Don't buy cheap stuff. Ever. It never fails that when you need the machine the most is when it just checks out on you - in the middle of the driveway. 
Buy all the accessories you can too, Cab, Texastoothpick, heated grips, chains, electric who'sis - thing-a-ma-jig, what ever they offer, buy it. The idea being that you're going to grow old with this machine and you might appreciate the conveniences later on in life. As an example please refer to my still fruitless search for a cab for my nearly new (5yrs) SimpleCity snowblower-can't find one at any price.
At least that's how I'd do it if I was doing it again. 8-D
A suggestion? I'd take a hard look at SimpleCity. John Deere is using them for their 10hp and up machines. If it's good enough for JD then it's good enough for me. OTOH, JD is going to switch to Honda next year. I've also heard that Yamaha is back in the snowblower business too so that's also a thought as well.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Talon1189 said:


> You can always change your mind down the road and add a used electric start years down the road off Ebay or another source.


Not always, and not for all machines..
I know with some older 2-stage machines, machines that came new with a starter have the gear teeth cut into the flywheel for it, while otherwise identical models that didnt come new with a starter have a smooth flywheel! so for those machines, you cant simply bolt on a starter, you need a new flywheel too! which makes it a major undertaking..

No idea how these modern single-stage Toros are set up in that regard..but that is something to consider..

Scot


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## anthdan (Jan 8, 2012)

Electric start is $50 more. $110 more to upgrade from the 418 to 621. Pretty much decided on the 621 with electric start. Thanks all


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## twofishy4u (Dec 6, 2011)

if you can find a 2 stroke toro 20" or bigger they are aweasome. Take a look at the guys who do snow removal they all use Toro's for there single stages. I've personally used simplicity, ariens, mtd, and they don't compare to a Toro, better paddle design.


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## fronos4 (Jan 29, 2011)

Anthdan, you made the right choice. I purchased the 418ZE back in October 2011, only was able to use it once as we haven't had much snow. It handled the first 2" wet/icy snow okay (it strained a little) and I'm sure it'll have no problem with the dry stuff but I personally wouldn't want it as my primary snow removal equipment which is why I bought it to supplement my 2 stage for light snowfall. Anyways, the 621 with its Power Curve auger and a larger engine will handle your areas average snow fall without issue and should suit your needs just fine.


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## Flannelman (Sep 24, 2011)

If I was going to buy a nice single I'd get a CCR3650 or a John Deere TRS21. They are some of the best out there. I don't know that I'd buy a 4 stroke single I think the 2 strokes have better power than the 4 strokes.


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## JerryJ (Jan 11, 2012)

We noticed one neighbor @67 had one of those single stage Toro's. He had problems with it but we found it was the machine itself NOT the brand or model.. He also found that he had to work hard when dealing with the snow
I found out later *when I told him,* that he said; *his wife also told him*, to get the better two stage as opposed to a small single stage. He admitted that he didn't listen but he listened to me when I explain "*why".*
He and his son traded single for two stage and now HE is happy

*Buying a snowblower is like buying anything else in life*

If you have a squeaky little driveway or sidewalk and expect very little snow, then those single stage blowers or "Throwers" are ideal.

But, if you do a fair amount then you'll need a larger machine. The way to look at it is: The bigger the machine, the less work YOU DO.
Example: a two-stage, self-propelled does the work. Your job is to steer (with ease) and switch forward-reverse and the discharge chute.

Yes, sometimes there are cost differences but from what I've seen the difference in price, you might as well buy the two stage and get the better machine right off the bat.
Stick with a brand name; there are several good brands. 

Does size matter? That only depends on how much driveway you have or if you're like some of us that do the whole block of neighbors, then the bigger the better. (within reason) The 45" units are more for farming and parking lots

HCBPH mentioned something that needs to be considered. The older untis are far better built than the newer ones. All the mechanical is better built, as are the bearings. 20, 25 and 30 year old machines are easier to work on and are tougher. A little maintenence and sometimes a little part replacement and you're back to a new machine.

We have 2 older Ariens in our shop right now that we're preping for sale.
Carb kits, valve springs and tuneup, plus a repaint and maybe 2 new tires (because of some inhouse restoration expermient we're working on).
Both these machines were stripped to zero on the floor for repaint. roughly $50 investment for parts and the rest is labor, which we're not charging for because of the "experiment concept"

We found, in general, that the augers, and buckets; the drive mechanisms and engine designs far out weigh the newer units.

On a personal note we don't like the old style chains. We do prefer the new more aggressive luggy tires on the new machines (our opinion only). Our opinion: we don't think that tire manufacturers had the design for those aggressive looking off road type tires and all they had back then were chains


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## anthdan (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks all. OK - decided on the 621. Went out and looked at them this morning. Now... QZE $759, QZR $659, or E $559. Can't believe $200 for the quick shoot, zip deflector, and ergonic handle. Sure liked the quick shoot control on the handle. Down to quick shoot without electric for $100 more or the base electric model.


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## Oldphil (Dec 7, 2010)

I need to throw my 2 cents in! Back in 1993 I bought a TB electric start Snow King auger drive, I also have a Toro 726 bought years later. But without doubt the old SK is still my favorite. The Toro is a killer in big snows, it blasts snow 40+ feet but when done I have to run the SK around for clean up. In some ways I wish they made larger auger drives in today's market, the old auger will pull it's way through plow curl at the end of the driveway that many times my 726 rides up onto requiring me to fire up the SK. I hope the 726 does as well repair wise as the SK, the SK so far needed one shear bolt, a $39 Oregon carb, and re-doing the auger rubber which I just removed and re bolted out farther for second life.

Phil


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Oldphil,

Ariens did make a hybrid model. Search for Ariens ST 2+2.
It is a 2 stage machine, but it is still auger propelled. I have never seen one in person and can't tell you how well they work though.
I have seen a couple Craftsmans on craigslist using the same design so other manufacturers must have tried them too.

Ariens also had something called a metro, but I heard those sucked.


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## fronos4 (Jan 29, 2011)

If you already purchased your 621, them my response is moot. I would pass on any of the quick shoot stuff specially on a SS, save the $100 the SS are small enough that you can just reach over to change the direction of the chute, plus if the cabling does freeze, I'm not sure if there still is a handle to manually move the chute. If your going to get into the $600 price range then you're better off looking into a budget 2 stage (i.e.; Sno-Tek 24 $599) or as others mentioned a used 2 stage if your mechanically inclined. That's my opinion, and I know it seems your set on a Toro so I would suggest the 612E.


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## anthdan (Jan 8, 2012)

Thanks to all. Purchased to 621 QZE. I know I paid a lot for the extras but I am hoping this purchase lasts 10+ years. Used it on about 3 inches of snow and I defintely think the Quick Chute is worth it given the configuration of the driveway.


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