# Augers jammed now engine won't start



## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

Ive got a Poulan Pro 270 self propelled & electric start. I didn't check my impeller for ice, so when I put the blower in drive the engine quit. Ice is completely cleared but now engine won't start. Can't smell gas from the exhaust... no idea what might have happened. Hope you could help! TIA


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Probably the flywheel key got sheared or at least it got moved enough to throw the timing off. I'd almost count on it. I can't think of anything else.
Welcome to the forum.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

That was my first thought too. But shearing the flywheel key from just engaging the augers when they're stuck? The belt would have engaged over a (very) short span of time, giving it a chance to slow down the engine slightly gradually. It should be less violent than hitting something with the augers already running, at least. Seems odd to me that it would shear the key, but it's certainly possible. Especially if the flywheel nut was maybe a little under-torqued. 

Will it do anything if you spray a little gas or starting fluid into the carburetor's intake? Are you getting spark? 

Checking the flywheel key can be a bit tricky. At a minimum, you need to remove the shroud that covers the flywheel (it's probably also the pull-start housing). You might be able to look down the crankshaft and compare the slot in the crankshaft, with the slot in the flywheel. If they're perfectly lined up, the flywheel key should be OK. If you can't check it that way, then you'd have to remove the flywheel nut and the flywheel, which is bit of a process, and must be done carefully to avoid engine damage.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to SBF .je

If it's turning over but just not firing/starting it might have flooded. I'd pull the plug and let it turn over for a few seconds (10-15?) with the choke off and throttle full a few times letting it rest a bit between turns. Don't want to overheat the starter.

Reinstall the plug and try starting with just the throttle full an no choke, no prime. If no joy, add choke and try again. If it still doesn't start then prime like you normally would with choke and give it a try.
If it's still not starting then were getting into the likelihood you may have sheared a key.
I'd lean more that it's flooded at this point.

.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

You might be right, Mark. I have had the flooding problem when an engine is suddenly stopped. I'd definitely try that before pulling the shroud etc.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

That was my first thought too. Tried after an hour but didnt start. The starter moves the augers and drive tw.
Thanks for these suggestions I'll try and let you know what happens.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

For a heads up,the OP's machine a Poulan Pro 270 which uses a 254 cc gen 2 LCT engine, it FAILS to have a shear type flywheel key.it has a solid metal woodruff key, part number 585 29 72-01 WOODRUFF FLYWHEEL KEY sold in packs of 5 to the dealers Owner's Manuals | Poulan Pro listed under spare parts one can download the OM and parts lists if wanted the key is shown as number 81 

OP make sure your throttle is fully open, the stop key is fully in, check for spark and gas,


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

.je said:


> That was my first thought too. Tried after an hour but didnt start. The starter moves the augers and drive tw.
> Thanks for these suggestions I'll try and let you know what happens.


The auger and drive should not try to move when starting the engine. Make sure they are not engaged. I don't believe that engine will start with a load on it.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

did you pull the plug or did you just let it sit for an hour? i would still pull the plug. maybe even check for spark when you got it out.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I would definitely check for spark. It's a quick thing to check, and could reveal some other problem.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

crazzywolfie said:


> did you pull the plug or did you just let it sit for an hour? i would still pull the plug. maybe even check for spark when you got it out.


good point on checking that fuel spark plug 
that motor has 2 safeties a push in key and a on/off switch plus a fuel shutoff valve, 

right from the owner's manual page 19

PROBLEM CAUSE CORRECTION
Does not start 1. Fuel shut-off valve (if so equipped)
in OFF position.
1. Turn fuel shut-off valve to OPEN position.
2. Safety ignition key is not inserted. 2. Insert safety ignition key.
3. Out of fuel. 3. Fill fuel tank with fresh, clean gasoline.
4. Throttle in STOP position (or ON/
OFF switch is OFF).
4. Move throttle to FAST position (or ON/OFF switch to ON position).
5. Choke in OFF position. 5. Move to FULL position.
6. Primer not depressed. 6. Prime as instructed in the Operation section of this manual.
7. Engine is flooded. 7. Wait a few minutes before restarting, DO NOT prime.
8. Spark plug wire is disconnected. 8. Connect wire to spark plug.
9. Bad spark plug. 9. Replace spark plug.
10. Stale fuel. 10. Empty fuel tank & carburetor, refill with fresh, clean gasoline.
11. Water in fuel. 11. Empty fuel tank & carburetor, refill with fresh, clean gasoline.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

Had the plug out for a day and even put a tap of motor oil in the cylinder to help compression but it is still flooded. No fuel shutoff valve unfortunately. The gas is pretty new I wonder if there's water in it from storage. 

Unfortunately too heavy snow has just started so I won't be going to a store for a while ironically.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

did you check for spark when you had the plug out?


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

33 woodie said:


> For a heads up,the OP's machine a Poulan Pro 270 which uses a 254 cc gen 2 LCT engine, it FAILS to have a shear type flywheel key.it has a solid metal woodruff key, part number 585 29 72-01 WOODRUFF FLYWHEEL KEY sold in packs of 5 to the dealers Owner's Manuals | Poulan Pro listed under spare parts one can download the OM and parts lists if wanted the key is shown as number 81
> 
> OP make sure your throttle is fully open, the stop key is fully in, check for spark and gas,


I'd certainly try to change it out to an aluminum shear type if it were mine.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

Ha! Didn't see any spark. Put the plug to the block but no


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Then, with no spark, it sounds like you're closer to figuring out what's really making it not run. 

Is anything messed up with the ignition-kill wire? Is it worn through and grounding out on something?

You could disconnect it, as a test. If you can disconnect it from the coil, then at least you'd know it was disconnected "where it counts".


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

Ok forgot the plug that time. Got it to where it cuffs a couple times but that's it


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## Homesteader (Jan 12, 2019)

You say it’s still flooded after 2 days and no fuel shutoff.

Crimp the gas line with a pair of vise grips as a temporary fuel shut off. Use a shop towel around the line to prevent the vise grips from marring and don’t over tighten the grips. Just enough to compress the line fully. 

Remove the spark plug and turn the engine over several times to clear 100% of the flooding. 

Good luck.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

make sure you got the plug grounded to the body when checking for spark. i would just make sure that you got spark first before tearing apart an engine. if you don't have spark i would use a screw driver and hold it near ground while cranking so can see the spark jump the gap. there is a chance that the plug might be bad. i have seen some plugs where you can see the spark but still needed to be replaced to get the engine to fire.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

You're getting this in real time. It catches enough to disengage the starternow, sometimes


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## Lottstodo (Feb 16, 2018)

You mentioned that augers turned when you ran the starter. If you were not engaging them while running your starter , Then I would pull a belt cover and make absolutely sure you did not throw a belt that is binding and letting the auger system try to turn as you try to start it.

It will not be good if the belt is in a wrong position and the engine actually starts.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

if it is almost firing up but not quite i would try priming it a couple extra times and then try starting it. sometimes that works and worst case scenario is that you flood it and got to pull the plug and cycle the engine a couple times to clear it out.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

I was gonna say take off the belt. Can't believe it took three pages to get that suggestion.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

OK rather than take up more of your time I'll summarize:

The snowblower was purchased secondhand and by the 'story' and appearance has been used maybe half a dozen times in 2 years. It has a B&S 1150 series engine (it says it right on it!) w/o a fuel shutoff (there's a blank there). The drive stopped working for the PO, but I fixed that.

The engine was working, rough, then I tried to engage the auger (which was iced up, because all this is new to me) and the engine quit, and did not restart.

All the ice was cleared and the auger (and the drive) work if they are engaged by the handles.
There's spark, and it looks good. The plug looks very new, but maybe it needs replacing. It sure is wet with gas.

Starting it up after turning it over without the plug gets it almost going, but has to be repeated.
Now just a week or so before this, I got a can of gas but the little vent cap was off for that time. I wouldn't think it would let a lot of moisture in to foul the gas, but you might know better than I.

I think the next steps would be to change the gas, and maybe the plug. If there is anything else I'd love to hear it, but will have to try these things before asking more questions.

I must say that I am very impressed with the speed and thoroughness of the answers that you folks have provided. Well done, I hope to be able to help anyone with the wisdom you've already provided in a short time. I'll let you know if it's working ASAP.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Good background info, thanks. I personally wouldn't expect trouble with the vent open for a week, especially in the winter (dryer air). But that's just me. 

If you have a compression tester, doing a compression test could be worthwhile. 

A new plug is cheap to try, at least. Spraying a bit of starting fluid, carb cleaner, etc, into the carb's intake could help you see if it would run from another fuel source.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Quote:
Originally Posted by .je View Post
That was my first thought too. Tried after an hour but didnt start. The starter moves the augers and drive tw.
Thanks for these suggestions I'll try and let you know what happens.

The auger and drive should not try to move when starting the engine. Make sure they are not engaged. I don't believe that engine will start with a load on it. Ill say it for a second time.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

Ok I got this far






Starter fluid works this well too.

This thing used to start first pull!! Would have been good to use for last night's 9" dumping.

Thought maybe it was too cold like this thread 
www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/general-snowblower-discussion/4761-wont-start-cold-weather.html
I'll try heating it somehow. ?


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Engines all need air, gasoline and spark all combined with the proper amount and.at.the proper time, to start and run. I would *still* check that key, even replace it just to take that possibility out of the equation. 
Something else... That starter motor isn't going to tolerate much of that.


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## Lottstodo (Feb 16, 2018)

After rereading your post I believe that you are chasing a carb issue.You got the machine 2nd hand , not been run hardly in a couple years and you did not mention removing old gas from the tank or say anything about cleaning the carb of old gas or gunk from old gas.if the carb plugged after you got it running (roughly) and engaged the augers then stopped , you may need to do a good cleaning. there are a number of different ways for raw fuel to get to the cylinder to cause a fouled plug, but it is not atomized w/air as needed so it just floods the engine.

As well check your oil to make sure that you dont have a overfilled condition from gas( possibly leaking past needle and seat) as part of the carb not cleaned scenario.


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## Lottstodo (Feb 16, 2018)

I think you can buy a new carb with gas line, clamps, filter and primer , etc. from amazon for like $20.00 
then you could install the new carb and practice cleaning and rebuilding your old one, for a spare.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

What's dripping from the muffler?


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

that motor is suffering from what we see in the shop as a common issue,, it's flooding, needle seat no longer working right, , with lots of plastic inside them ,they get to a point that after many failures trying to rebuild, we don't even bother trying to rebuild them, round file and replace, change the oil as it will also be loaded up with gas 
after it's replaced it will take time to burn off the film still inside the muffler


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

After that -10F / -25C spell, I'm at 6 or 7 days at work a week for the last 3 weeks... but got to the flywheel, which needs 15/16" not the 7/8" I have.. just in time for another 8" of snow today. I'll drain the gas too I guess.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

This looks OK to me. Does it look OK to you?










I guess it's the carb. It ran really strong, then was suddenly stopped, and hasn't since.
The engine is 15C114 0939 E8. Will this carb work too? It looks the same.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Looks good to me. If it's wrong, it's by the tiniest bit. Actually getting the key out to check requires pulling the flywheel, which is tougher than the nut.

Just make sure to torque the nut to the proper value. Too loose, and you won't have enough friction against the crankshaft taper, and you might actually shear the key.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Looks good to me. I was almost certain it would be knocked out a bit.


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

While you're waiting for the new carb, why not try this for the heck of it. 



It may be worth your time and you might get it going.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

Removed and Cleaned carb, drained old gas, replaced with fresh, still doesn't go. I can try a new carb I guess.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

did you make sure to pull the main jet and emulsion tube and make sure they were clean?


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## Lottstodo (Feb 16, 2018)

Ok since this is a LCT 254 please look at the TSB posted on main page "Husqvarna engine failure" I am sorry for some reason my computer is being dumb and it wont let me post it. But the Tsb is for that engine and possible exactly your problem. It was for him.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

OK, in case this still interests you, now the plug has been changed and it seems to try to fire, but then it kicks back.
The flywheel key doesn't look sheared, if there's any other place to look I would appreciate any suggestions.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

have you checked to make sure the valve lash is set correctly? i got a lawn mower engine that has a pretty good kick back to it. runs awesome once you get it started but very dangerous kickback. i have wondered if the compression release got messed up on it or something since it ran awesome before i put it on my pressure washer but it was the 2nd engine to do this after being on my pressure washer.


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

If the cord puts the piston to TDC, it can get a good pop from firing, but doesn't start. Maybe I'll pull the flywheel and check, reset, or replace the key 



 If that isn't it maybe the valve lash like you have said. Hopefully not a twisted crank! Thanks will update if there is any.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I just fixed a tractor this summer with a Kohler engine that had spark but wouldn't fire....I checked and double checked the keyway and it was fine...but it was slightly thinner then the keyway...by not even a hair. Replaced it and problem solved.


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

Thats what it looked like in post 34. Key too small for the keyway, Good luck.
Sid


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## .je (Jan 27, 2019)

The snowblower is going again. Once I got to the key, like in the picture, getting more of it apart was more than I was able to do at that time, so took it to a small engine shop Pat's Rentall), since I'll probably destroy it if I try any further.

Everybody was right! It had a broken (or just damaged) flywheel key, and a sticking intake valve. 
Anyway, I learned a lot (particularly that I know what my limits are), thanks everyone.


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