# Not enough Toro users



## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Def far more Honda and Ariens users on the forum followed up by the MTD/B&S guys. I continually check into the TORO brand sub forum and apart from the very occasional guy with a long discontinued Toro needing adjustment advise it's like a ghost town in there. 

The Ariens and Honda sub forums are beehives in comparison.

Of the few guys here that appear to own Toro they seem to be owners of the heavy duty machines, single stage or much older models. I've yet to come across a fellow late model regular version 2 stage Toro owner here. 

I only make these observations as it seems strange based on the idea that Toro is supposed to be one of the biggest snow blower brands in North America with Toro dealers everywhere.

Either Toro doesn't sell as many machines as one would expect or people don't have problems with them very often and as such don't find their way here for help.

Don't know what to make of it. :smile_big:


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

* SIMPLE They don't have to many problems. They are like a fine wine, just better with time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * SIMPLE They don't have to many problems. They are like a fine wine, just better with time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


I fully agree. Toro's are very solid machines. My Power Clear 721R starts right up, goes through 10-12 inches of snow without hesitation and cleans down to the pavement. My driveway was consistently the cleanest in the neighborhood this winter.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

It would be interesting to find numbers on units sold between the various makes and models over the last few years for comparisons along with numbers of repairs encountered. It is possible it could be a better unit to begin with, it could be there are a lesser number of units sold than others, could be a lot of different reasons. Without having the number for comparison along with a quality evaluation of the units it's all speculation.

Regardless, if someone is happy with their respective machines, there's little else that matters. Nothing better than a happy owner/user of any machine. If you're happy with your machine, that's all that counts.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

I bought my 2450E new, got it out of lay-away in late '99. it still has the original belt and carb
gave a friend that always helps me the 826 ( 38150 ), he has had no problems with it and nether did i
I use the HRT 521 more than any other snowblower I have. I've had a tank of bad gas and a broken auger belt, those are the only problems it has had
3650E: bad electric starter
624 powershift: project
824 powershift: electric starter
ccr3000E: the 2450 frame it sits on is not quite a direct fit , it needs the drive cable adjusted
521: same as the HRT 521, bad gas
824 powerthrow: carb cleaned, runs great now thinking about putting an impeller kit on it
I would think about a new toro but I don't want a 824 snowmaster and they don't make a two stage 824


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * SIMPLE They don't have to many problems. They are like a fine wine, just better with time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


This.

New Models:

Forums are often a place where people only visit/post to vent with problems or flaws. Toro's "Quik Stick" generation of blowers haven't changed much in the past 15 years and are thus well sorted out. 

Older models:

Toro sold tons of 3.5/21 - 8/26 blowers in the 80's and they were of good quality so there are many still kicking around that are rebuild/resto worthy. The inexpensive and straightforward Predator retrofit process is also contributing to their (and other brands) popularity in the Forums. 

Are you listening Briggs and Stratton?

.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

I share the thoughts of others . . maybe it is because Toro's don't have as many problems :grin:

I would think that Ariens out-sells Toro in the snow blower market, MTD brands out-sell all others combined (probably).

The Toro PowerMax series has been out for a while, but we don't hear too much about them on this forum.

Toro is also big in lawn care, so from a company perspective, snowblowers are just a piece of the pie.


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

i have 15 to 20 blowers come through each year but my personal blower is always a toro CCR :grin:


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Barney, Could the Toro be the Rodney Dangerfield of snowblowers - "I get no respect".



barney said:


> Def far more Honda and Ariens users on the forum followed up by the MTD/B&S guys. I continually check into the TORO brand sub forum and apart from the very occasional guy with a long discontinued Toro needing adjustment advise it's like a ghost town in there.
> 
> The Ariens and Honda sub forums are beehives in comparison.
> 
> ...


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I currently have a 4-21, a 5-21, 724, 826, two 824 Powershifts, a 624 Powershift, a 1032 Powershift....and love them all.....real quality.That said...I'd like to only own maybe the 826 and the 1032.......the rest are here because they just don't get any interest from the customers. I can offer a customer a choice between a 826 Yardman that has been repainted, or a mint Powershift........same price...they take the MTD product every time. I've gotten absolutely NO calls all year on any of the Toro machines....I can't even bait and switch them when I get them here. With the exception of the 421 and the 724 which have "patina" and rusty chrome...the others are almost new looking and run sweet. I can understand the lack of interest in the older machines with the funky safeties..but the Powershifts aren't selling either.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

You have to remember, it's not the quantity of Toro users it's the Quality. :grin:

When I'm out driving after a snow storm I see more red Toros running up and down driveways than any other machine. Maybe that's unusual because they used to be made here in the Twin Cities (MN) area, maybe not.
As for members I'd have to say it does seem we have more Honda and Ariens guys.
But I can't remember ever seeing a Honda out in the real world throwing snow in person.
.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Barney, Could the Toro be the Rodney Dangerfield of snowblowers - "I get no respect".


I would give this award to the Simplicity Signature Series. 

Really nice "HD" machines but there's even less talk about them than the Toro's


.


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

I just picked up a CCR3650 GTS from 2003 that's in really really nice condition (good paddles and scraper bar but would not start due to a busted primer bulb) for peanuts, and it's not like I was the first one to pounce on the ad just minutes after it was posted (the ad was 5 days old by the time I saw it).

I feel that if it was a Honda, it would have sold for significantly more, even if it was a non-runner.

I'd love to try it out this season if it will ever snow again in Massachusetts.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

detdrbuzzard said:


> ...snip...
> I would think about a new toro but I don't want a 824 snowmaster and *they don't make a two stage 824*


Yeah, I think that's a shame. I really wanted their 824 but found out they no longer made it so went with the 826 stripped down machine. Had it out for it's 4th time a few days ago for a 12 inch dump....machine ate it up with gusto.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

barney said:


> Yeah, I think that's a shame. I really wanted their 824 but found out they no longer made it so went with the 826 stripped down machine. Had it out for it's 4th time a few days ago for a 12 inch dump....machine ate it up with gusto.


the bucket on the 826 makes it a challenge to get in and out of my garage


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## Hanky (Nov 14, 2014)

I guess I am bad first year I had some issues with my 1128 OXE Power Max HD, but since it has been perfect and has not let me down so I am not on much just reading and not posting. Early last month a friend came over and we took my Toro out in the deep snow 2 ft settled and he seen how well it did and he went and bought a Power Max HD 826 OXE. And guess what no snow to speak off in 2 weeks.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

tdipaul said:


> I would give this award to the Simplicity Signature Series.
> Really nice "HD" machines but there's even less talk about them than the Toro's
> .


No argument from me on that one but its' all good. Machines today do not have that individualism they once used to and are fairly generic in nature kind of like a Toll brothers housing subdivision, just a sign of the times.:sad2:


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

DriverRider said:


> No argument from me on that one but its' all good. Machines today do not have that individualism they once used to and *are fairly generic in nature* kind of like a Toll brothers housing subdivision, just a sign of the times.:sad2:


I suspect you are right about the increasingly *generic nature* of the machines which may also mean a real tightening of any spread in actual and perceived quality between brands. 

It seems like *Toro tries to distinguish itself* by playing up supposed _'design advances'_: (recirculating design in the augur box, non stick polymer, the quick chute design, the oft claimed "hardened gears", the lesser shear pin hassles, a single cast buttressed frame, and something about them having 'single augur shafts' which I don't understand.) *No track models, hydro trans. or electric chutes.

*Ariens apparently tries to distinguish itself primarily* by it's 'American Made' claim, it's 'All Steel' claim, iron gear box and a longevity claim. I'm not sure what else they may play up. Full featured models too I guess. That new track design will help distinguish the brand going forward.

Simplicity Pro Series = maybe their power mode. Plus all steel, iron gear box and electric chute. Not sure.

I guess *Honda tries to distinguish itself* primarily by their claims of 'Superior Quality', longevity and perhaps 'full features' like electric chutes, tracks and hydro trans?, although other brands can be had now with those features I think and everyone now claims "longevity". So I guess longevity claims are not really 'distinguishing' in and of themselves [although having a good track record of longevity certainly helps the claim].

I guess everyone else tries to distinguish their brand by claiming some or all of the above *at a cheaper price*?  (except Yamaha)

* I suspect one or more of the above brands claim to have invented the snow blower [Toro?] and may also use that to* help distinguish themselves from the generic.*


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * SIMPLE They don't have to many problems. They are like a fine wine, just better with time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


I agree POWERSHIFT93, In my snow blower arsenal is a 1993 Toro CCR-2000, what a champ - still starts with one pull, cleans up driveway real nice and is very, very dependable! I will not get rid of this machine!


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> You have to remember, it's not the quantity of Toro users it's the Quality. :grin:
> 
> When I'm out driving after a snow storm I see more red Toros running up and down driveways than any other machine. Maybe that's unusual because they used to be made here in the Twin Cities (MN) area, maybe not.
> As for members I'd have to say it does seem we have more Honda and Ariens guys.
> ...


* The old school and the POWERSHIFTS and more than likely some of those powermaxs were made here down in southern Minnesota back in the day.*


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

* I am guessing that the powermax line is coming to an end soon for it has been around 13 years now. so it will be interesting to see what will replace it down the road.*


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * I am guessing that the powermax line is coming to an end soon for it has been around 13 years now. so it will be interesting to see what will replace it down the road.*



What? Nooooooo! The Powermax line must continue until I get a chance to get one. I'm going to get a Toro Timemaster 30" WAM this year and then the Powermax next year. Toro finally put a larger CC motor on the Timemaster last year and I've been saving my scrap metal money ever since. Toro must know that I want a Powermax, I'm on their site all the time. Now that they have the SnowMaster's, Toro should thin out the PowerMax line to one blower and then have the PowerMax HD line consist of the 926 OHXE, 1028 OHXE, 1028 OHXE (38806 Commericial), *and the new 1128 OHXE*.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * I am guessing that the powermax line is coming to an end soon for it has been around 13 years now. so it will be interesting to see what will replace it down the road.*


hopefully they come out with a new 824 when they do replace the powermax line


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Zavie said:


> What? Nooooooo! The Powermax line must continue until I get a chance to get one. I'm going to get a Toro Timemaster 30" WAM this year and then the Powermax next year. Toro finally put a larger CC motor on the Timemaster last year and I've been saving my scrap metal money ever since. Toro must know that I want a Powermax, I'm on their site all the time. Now that they have the SnowMaster's, Toro should thin out the PowerMax line to one blower and then have the PowerMax HD line consist of the 926 OHXE, 1028 OHXE, 1028 OHXE (38806 Commericial), *and the new 1128 OHXE*.


* That was just my musings on that subject at hand. they could go another 10 years for all I know.*


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

detdrbuzzard said:


> hopefully they come out with a new 824 when they do replace the powermax line


* I wish they would bring back the 32 inch cut or larger.*


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * I wish they would bring back the 32 inch cut or larger.*


32"?? That's a very long shot. Being that they dominate the walk behind WAM category now, I'm not sure they would go to a larger walk behind. Besides, they have great synergy between the 30" residential Timemaster and the 30" commercial Turfmaster. They could make some tweeks to the Turfmaster to lighten up the weight a bit though.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Zavie said:


> 32"?? That's a very long shot. Being that they dominate the walk behind WAM category now, I'm not sure they would go to a larger walk behind. Besides, they have great synergy between the 30" residential Timemaster and the 30" commercial Turfmaster. They could make some tweeks to the Turfmaster to lighten up the weight a bit though.


* They used to make a 32inch cut snowblower.*


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * They used to make a 32inch cut snowblower.*


Oh.... I thought we were talking lawn equipment, my mistake LOL :smile2:


As far as the 32" snowblower, yeah a 1232 OHHE HYDRO!!


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * I am guessing that the powermax line is coming to an end soon for it has been around 13 years now. so it will be interesting to see what will replace it down the road.*


Me thinks that you Mr Powershift are working at Toro, worked at Toro, or know someone "on the inside" at Toro 

Because the patent of what appears to be the beginning of the Powermax line with the ACS and quick stick was granted almost 14 years ago...



And if a patent has a duration of 14 years from date of granting, this one expires on August 10, 2018. 



What might Toro do to improve the line, or do next?

This recent filing could be a sign of what is coming...



I have no idea how all this patent stuff works but this could be the extension of the quick stick?



.
.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Zavie said:


> 32"?? That's a very long shot. Being that they dominate the walk behind WAM category now, I'm not sure they would go to a larger walk behind. Besides, they have great synergy between the 30" residential Timemaster and the 30" commercial Turfmaster. They could make some tweeks to the Turfmaster to lighten up the weight a bit though.


What's a "WAM"???


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

tdipaul said:


> Me thinks that you Mr Powershift are working at Toro, worked at Toro, or know someone "on the inside" at Toro
> 
> Because the patent of what appears to be the beginning of the Powermax line with the ACS and quick stick was granted almost 14 years ago...
> 
> ...


That 2nd patent abstract description pretty much sounds like the quik chute they already have. Wonder what the "Power Head" in the 1st one refers to.

I didn't realize the snow recirculation 'system' in the augur box and the quik chute were patented inventions. That's interesting. Thanks for posting that.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

barney said:


> What's a "WAM"???


Great question, now back to lawn care. WAM stands for "Wide Area Mower". Generally any mower over the standard 21-22".
Toro dominates the walk behind over 22" market with the Timemaster 30". Cool mower, I've got to get one.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

barney said:


> That 2nd patent abstract description pretty much sounds like the quik chute they already have. Wonder what the "Power Head" in the 1st one refers to.


Power Head Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/USD786940
.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

I thought Toro had dropped the 824 but was wrong. The new or updated model appears to be the Power Max® 824 OE (37793). Not sure whats new on it versus the discontinued model,...maybe larger wheels/tires and the rims are now black instead of white.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Power Head Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/USD786940
> .


Kind of looks like a swivel mechanism. Didn't realize how much intellectual property apparently goes into snow blowers.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

just got off the toro website, found this
https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/snow-blowers/power-max-724-oe-37793


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

barney said:


> I thought Toro had dropped the 824 but was wrong. The new or updated model appears to be the Power Max® 824 OE (37793). Not sure whats new on it versus the discontinued model,...maybe larger wheels/tires and the rims are now black instead of white.


looks like toro put the 8hp motor on the 724 frame and nothing more. now that we have their attention how about a headlight, heated grips and steering triggers as options toro


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

I'm wrong about them upsizing the wheels/tires on the new 824 OE, they're 13 inch.

I'm also not sure if the new 824 is actually replacing a discontinued 824. Which is to say, I'm not sure if there was a preceding 824 *PowerMax *model at all. I know there were older 824's though.

Wish this model had been available in my area sooner. It looks perfect for my needs.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

the 824oe isn't replacing anything, it is just the 8hp motor on the 724oe frame


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

I have not been here in a while but I'll throw in my two Toro's. Ya Ariens and MTD sell more blowers .( MTD mostly threw mostly hd and lows) I don't think Honda out sells toro but people who own them are very proud of them. Some day I would like a Honda or maybe a Yamaha if they can start selling in the USA or maybe a simplicity pro but never an MTD.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

^^^^ the only two stage Honda that would fit in my garage would be a a 724. problem is if I don't like it or don't want it is selling it, as you know most don't want to pay the price for one. would love to get an Ariens platinum sho24, something about that 369cc motor I guess plus it will fit in my garage. but I am perfectly happy with team Toro that resides in my garage those 521's are beasts


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

detdrbuzzard said:


> ^^^^ the only two stage Honda that would fit in my garage would be a a 724. problem is if I don't like it or don't want it is selling it, as you know most don't want to pay the price for one. would love to get an Ariens platinum sho24, something about that 369cc motor I guess plus it will fit in my garage. but I am perfectly happy with team Toro that resides in my garage those 521's are beasts


So put a bigger engine on the 521 hehe My girl has a 8.5 hp on a 22" and she LOVES it LOL


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

detdrbuzzard said:


> ^^^^ the only two stage Honda that would fit in my garage would be a a 724. problem is if I don't like it or don't want it is selling it, as you know most don't want to pay the price for one. would love to get an Ariens platinum sho24, something about that 369cc motor I guess plus it will fit in my garage. but I am perfectly happy with team Toro that resides in my garage *those 521's are beasts*


Shame Toro no longer makes those narrow width 2 stage machines. The 826 I have is at the top end of what I need.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

+1 on the Toro 521's . . . I have tortured mine over the years and it keeps on going. People who I lend it to are quite impressed . . . even before I re-powered it to become a Preda-Toro.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

tpenfield said:


> +1 on the Toro 521's . . . I have tortured mine over the years and it keeps on going. People who I lend it to are quite impressed . . . even before I re-powered it to become a Preda-Toro.


one thing that makes them so tough is that most parts like bushings and bearings come from the larger machines, even the auger gear


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## Rune Karlsen (Mar 4, 2018)

I have great memories with old toro machines. 
My grandfather had an old 1132 model. One noisy beast and i always woke up when he was closing in.
I sold it for 80 dollars to someone who broke it almost right away and threw it away  Too bad that i was too young to restore it at the time.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I'm replacing the auger gear as we speak on a mint 521....you guys are making me drool over finishing it and trying it out next year....I've already named it "Baby Bear". I can't see doing the impeller kit on it as it has almost no clearance as it is. A little tank and as you say it shares the auger with giant machines!


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

cranman said:


> I'm replacing the auger gear as we speak on a mint 521....you guys are making me drool over finishing it and trying it out next year....I've already named it "Baby Bear". I can't see doing the impeller kit on it as it has almost no clearance as it is. A little tank and as you say it shares the auger with giant machines!


my HRT 521 has an impeller kit and the PT 521 does not. the HRT 521 handles wet heavy snow better, if I only had one 521 it would have a kit.
HRT- hard rubber tires
PT- pneumatic tires


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## old ope mechanic (Feb 16, 2018)

el toro my 38801 928 ohxe is proving it's worth today, 16 inches and counting, with 2 to 3 inches a hour falling going by police reports,


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I've got a 421 HRT, and the 521 is PT. The 421 is a good running rat blower, but the chrome is rusty and the apple red has a certain "patina". I'll try it out before going with the kit. I just checked out "Pappa Bear", my 11 32 Briggs powered Powershift for impeller clearance and it was only 1/4 inch. I was ready to give it the works, but will wait untill next year and see how it performs. I've got so many blowers I'm dying to test drive...and the last few years has been so disappointing with snow.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

old ope mechanic said:


> el toro my 38801 928 ohxe is proving it's worth today, 16 inches and counting, with 2 to 3 inches a hour falling going by police reports,


you shouldn't have a problem blowing 16 inches with your 928, I had the HRT 521 out in 15 inches of snow about a month ago and while some neighbors had bigger machines non of them blew snow as fast as the 521, most didn't blow snow as far at the PT521 let alone match the HRT 521 with the kit


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## old ope mechanic (Feb 16, 2018)

shouldn't is correct! yet she's a laboring with this wet heavy dumping, police are still saying up to 24 inches by day break


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## J-Cooz (Nov 7, 2017)

I bought my first snowblowrr this year and I ponied up and bought the 826OXE HD. Its been a beast all winter, starts first pull every time and no issues at all. I just took her out to blow about 2" of wet snow off the driveway because I hadn't used it in a while. Started right up. 



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

My Powershift 824 was awesome in the heavy wet stuff. With the wheels back, it dug right in and went through it. Throwing distance was about 25 feet.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

tpenfield said:


> My Powershift 824 was awesome in the heavy wet stuff. With the wheels back, it dug right in and went through it. Throwing distance was about 25 feet.


I think that Powershift design is very interesting. It's meant to combat any tendency for the machine to ride up, *is that right*? Does it also change the wheel torque?


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## old ope mechanic (Feb 16, 2018)

barney said:


> I think that Powershift design is very interesting. It's meant to combat any tendency for the machine to ride up, *is that right*? Does it also change the wheel torque?


more like built for EOD combat. my old powershift never lifted up when facing a plow bank just ate it's way through, this powermax is nose light lifts up not through needs that weight kit for sure


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

barney said:


> I think that Powershift design is very interesting. It's meant to combat any tendency for the machine to ride up, *is that right*? Does it also change the wheel torque?


Actually there is less weight on the wheels when the axle is 'shifted'. Torque is the same as the transmission does not change. Having more weight on the bucket (and less on the wheel), keeps the bucket from riding up on packed snow/ice.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I like the Honda overseas design of having counter rotating augers so instead of biting into a drift and wanting to climb, half are instead biting in and pushing the bucket down on it's skids.
.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> I like the Honda overseas design of having counter rotating augers so instead of biting into a drift and wanting to climb, half are instead biting in and pushing the bucket down on it's skids.
> .


Wow! That's a cool design indeed. Are you saying that design is only available in some non North American versions? That's kind of odd. Do you know why that is?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

It's just crazy manufacturers or different countries laws IMHO. It's like me in the WI, U.S. can't get a Yamaha but a couple hundred miles north in Canada they're all over. Or the way a manufacturer will sell one model through a big box store but save certain models for their dealers. I don't have a clue how they make those decisions. 
There is a thread on Honda Canada that apparently they have some slick options that aren't available here in the U.S. and you can't get the Honda US dealers to order the parts because they don't have access to them. To me just makes no sense. Like with Yamaha, they have a motorcycle dealer network why not sell the snowblowers ? You already have the network, a little training, some stock of machines and parts and you have profit. Or is there some US regulation that makes it unprofitable, emissions, safety, ... who knows.

Apparently this is a European design only.
.


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## old ope mechanic (Feb 16, 2018)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> It's just crazy manufacturers or different countries laws IMHO. It's like me in the WI, U.S. can't get a Yamaha but a couple hundred miles north in Canada they're all over. Or the way a manufacturer will sell one model through a big box store but save certain models for their dealers. I don't have a clue how they make those decisions.
> There is a thread on Honda Canada that apparently they have some slick options that aren't available here in the U.S. and you can't get the Honda US dealers to order the parts because they don't have access to them. To me just makes no sense. Like with Yamaha, they have a motorcycle dealer network why not sell the snowblowers ? You already have the network, a little training, some stock of machines and parts and you have profit. Or is there some US regulation that makes it unprofitable, emissions, safety, ... who knows.
> 
> Apparently this is a European design only.
> .


 ( US regulation) think thats the real answer, our over regulated government OHH that's not safe or that fails to meet the safety/emissions so we can't sell it .what piece of equipment is safe is everyone's hands? 100% of the time, 

dumb will be dumb no matter.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

I think that Yamaha feels, and their dealers feel their is no money to be made here. Our market is very competitive and over saturated with high quality brands all of which have a full line from single stage to large 2 stage machines. When our hometown Honda car dealer who started in the 60's and carried everything Honda sold out to a mega big dealership conglomerate the manager of the powersports said they would only carry the Honda generators because nothing else sold well or was sold in the big box stores, (Home Depot). We may have rabid Yamaha fans here in the US but they can't carry the load for all the sales required to make a go of it.
Check out these Honda riding mowers available in the UK and probably most of Europe. Overview | Premium Lawn Tractors | Ride-on Mowers | Lawn & Garden | Honda
Now travel down to your local Honda dealer and try to buy one. Why aren't those sold here in the US? Maybe Robert can tell us, but I have a feeling that Honda feels that it would be an uphill battle to sell those here, with very little money to be made.


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## old ope mechanic (Feb 16, 2018)

do i ever hear that, what do we have that has not gone big time box store now?, close to nothing. used to be toro,ariens, honda, Jd ,+ we're dealer brands, now we see them in box stores, save a very few models reserved for dealers only.

note while a good machine i don't personally count husky as they became the MTD from europe sold under many names like sears +. seen in box stores ,everyone has his or her loved machines that when cared for run great .just mass production and box stores have killed the one big item we call quality control .

a dealer like the many i see helpfully post in here. will catch a problem made on the assembly line and fix it before they deliver it, they make sure it has been filed with oil and gasoline, make sure it runs and operates as it should, dealers do a proper PDI, they deliver to one's home, take the time show the new owner how to operate the machine for what about 100 bucks and taxes more than the box store or online store , box stores IMM nope! slap it together, stick it in a line chained together outside for how long?, never ran till the owner gasses it and fires it up. 

end of my anti box store rant guys and gals


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

with little market to support their snowblower sales Yamaha might be wise not to bring their snowblower line back to the USA. if they did how many here on the forum would actually go buy one. Honda makes a good machine but their cheapest two stage is up around $2000 and not many want to spend the money to get the Honda when they can spend a grand for something comparable from another company. with the toro's, i'm still a little disappointed with what toro offers and the lack of options. the new 824OE might be a step in the right direction but it is no powershift or powerthrow for that matter but grass cutting seems to be what toro's business is all about


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## old ope mechanic (Feb 16, 2018)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toro_(company) 
toro seems to be going the ways of many before them,


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

detdrbuzzard said:


> but grass cutting seems to be what toro's business is all about



Ahh, "grass cutting"? Toro is a, "Global Leader in Turf and Landscape Maintenance". 
Furthermore, 
"As a leading worldwide provider of innovative turf, landscape, rental and construction equipment, and irrigation and outdoor lighting solutions, Toro helps customers care for golf courses, sports fields, public green spaces, commercial and residential properties, and agricultural fields." 
That is somewhat wordy so grass cutting does some it up nicely, LOL.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

old ope mechanic said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toro_(company)
> toro seems to be going the ways of many before them,


link seems to not take you to the toro page


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

detdrbuzzard said:


> with little market to support their snowblower sales Yamaha might be wise not to bring their snowblower line back to the USA. if they did how many here on the forum would actually go buy one. Honda makes a good machine but their cheapest two stage is up around $2000 and not many want to spend the money to get the Honda when they can spend a grand for something comparable from another company. with the toro's, i'm still a little disappointed with what toro offers and the lack of options. *the new 824OE might be a step in the right direction but it is no powershift or powerthrow for that matter* but grass cutting seems to be what toro's business is all about



Would you mind explaining that statement? 

Also: You seem to be complaining about Toro's lack of options ie: an expensive full featured machine, but all the machines you list in your footer is old stuff and no doubt mostly picked up used. I get the feeling if they did offer a new expensive, full featured machine you wouldn't be the guy stepping up with your wallet.

You suggest that Toro is only a grass company. Apparently you know their customer base better than they do. I believe they have a pretty wide selection of snow machines, or at least they did last time I checked. I would think as many as the other big brands offer. What am I missing?
Is Honda just a car company? Some of your points just sound tossed off and unconsidered.


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## old ope mechanic (Feb 16, 2018)

detdrbuzzard said:


> link seems to not take you to the toro page


nope your correct it goes to one with the history of toro and tells how many older former good ones they gobbled up just like husky and mtd have done,

i wonder how much longer toro will make snow blowers before going simply lawn care? with the names toro and exmark


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

barney said:


> Would you mind explaining that statement?
> 
> Also: You seem to be complaining about Toro's lack of options ie: an expensive full featured machine, but all the machines you list in your footer is old stuff and no doubt mostly picked up used. I get the feeling if they did offer a new expensive, full featured machine you wouldn't be the guy stepping up with your wallet.
> 
> ...


First off, keeping the old iron running and useful is a large part of this forum. Being a new Toro owner, you might want to respect the previous machines and their caretakers a little more.
Toro's main money IS golf course stuff and irrigation, NOT snowblowers. Snowblowers are a weather dependent product. Even the heaviest snow towns have low years or none even. My son is at Mich Tech in the U.P. of MI. They average 210" a year. This is his fourth year there and they've not been up to average in his four years. They still get snow basically every day from Oct. to May, but not much accumulation the last 4 years. Drive around MI and see all the people selling snowmobiles and trailers getting out of sledding for good. My mom's neighbor did this year and they had sleds for 30 years. They bought a place on lake Mi and turned the money from the trailers and machines into dune rails.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

not sure what needs to be explained barney
"Also: You seem to be complaining about Toro's lack of options ie: an expensive full featured machine, but all the machines you list in your footer is old stuff and no doubt mostly picked up used. I get the feeling if they did offer a new expensive, full featured machine you wouldn't be the guy stepping up with your wallet. "

you are wrong there cause i've wanted a new toro 824 since around the time i picked up the 824 poweshift ( about 2014 ) but it would be nice if it was an hd model and had heated grips and a head light, and the larger wheels. would love a pic of the 824 powerthrow, 824power shift, a 824hd powermax side by side. i have one of those old small gradges barney and with all the other OPE and the 70cc dirt bike plus other auto motorcycle related stuff in there a bucket wider than a 24" won't fit even if i sell one of the 521's it only leaves room for one more machine again not wider than 24". the 624 powershift and my brothers 2450E are outside under a tarp in need of repair and the 3650E is over at mom's


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