# Do you use fuel cleaners, when needed or every time?



## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

It seems sooner or later we all are going to have a carburetor problem, hard starting, surging, rough running, no power, no power under load, stalling, poor idling, whatever.

It can be reduced by using fresh fuel, turning the fuel over often, using fuel stabilizers, StaBil, Seafoam, and by draining the gas tank and carburetor either after each snow or at the end of the season. You can also use a shut off valve on the gas tank, turn it to off, and drain the carburetor only.

And many do nothing! Then solve the problem by using a fuel carb cleaner, rebuilding, or replacing the carb.

Do you use a fuel cleaner at all, only occasionally, only when you have a problem, or regularly?

What do you use?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

* I have never used any of that stuff here in the frozen tundra. I fill the tankers just when the weather monkey's are crying we got a storm coming our way. never turns out the way they played it up. so I fill the engine tank when I am going to use it. and when it is all said and done then I reach under there and turn the valve off so the engine starves itself of fuel. put it back in the garage.and do it all over when duty calls once again. what I don't use in the winter I just run in the mower in the summer. and when the tanker is empty. I hoof it up to the holiday on the corner fill it up. and everything begins again. and have never had any problems doing it my way. I still have yet to try the higher octane issue I ranted on in another thread somewhere around here.k:k:k:k:k:*


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

On all my equipment, I don't deal with the carbs. unless there's a need. I do use StaBil and Sea Foam in the gas regularly as a stabilizer (not carb. related) plus an extra ounce of Sea Foam early in the season.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

I use a double-dose of Stabil every time I fill up the gas can.

I get lazy and will often leave the tank partially full in the offseason. I didn't use my snowblower at all last year so when I went to start it up a week ago, it still had fuel from the end of the 2015 season. The engine started up fine and I ran through the rest of the tank during the storm on almost 2 year old fuel.

I will keep on using a double-dose of Stabil every time I fill up the gas can.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * I have never used any of that stuff here in the frozen tundra. I fill the tankers just when the weather monkey's are crying we got a storm coming our way. never turns out the way they played it up. so I fill the engine tank when I am going to use it. and when it is all said and done then I reach under there and turn the valve off so the engine starves itself of fuel. put it back in the garage.and do it all over when duty calls once again. what I don't use in the winter I just run in the mower in the summer. and when the tanker is empty. I hoof it up to the holiday on the corner fill it up. and everything begins again. and have never had any problems doing it my way. I still have yet to try the higher octane issue I ranted on in another thread somewhere around here.k:k:k:k:k:*


Powershift, I have to laugh at your post as that's what I do. After I use it, turn the shut off valve off and run it dry choking it. I do use Stabil as I like fresh gas. If I don't have any gas, I don't get it until the day of or the day before the snow falls vigilantly checking the Doppler. Then I don't put any in until I use the machine, snow snow snow and we get nothing. I know all my machines will start and if not, with ether. At the end of the season if it's pushing 60 days it goes in my car.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

I use a little Seafoam and Marvel Mystery Oil in my gas, and I use 93 octane in the blower and mowers, only because I feel like the effects of ethanol is lessened by the higher octane. I could be wasting a little money but I feel better about it. At the end of the season I siphon out the tank, run it out of fuel and drain whatever is in the bowl. Then I hit the inside of the tank with fogging oil. I feel that's better than leaving stabilized fuel in it for 8 or 9 months.


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

never used anything before this year figured i would try some seafoam in the gas of my 2 and 4 stroke small engines.

i had a tecumseh engine i did a carb clean on and still had a surging problem. after running a seafoam heavy mix for a while it cleared up.

it cant hurt as a fuel additive/ stabilizer so why not run it?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Powershift, I have to laugh at your post as that's what I do. After I use it, turn the shut off valve off and run it dry choking it. I do use Stabil as I like fresh gas. If I don't have any gas, I don't get it until the day of or the day before the snow falls vigilantly checking the Doppler. Then I don't put any in until I use the machine, snow snow snow and we get nothing. I know all my machines will start and if not, with ether. At the end of the season if it's pushing 60 days it goes in my car.


* Well I am just glad that someone reads them.:smiley-greet025:*


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Snowbelt_subie said:


> never used anything before this year figured i would try some seafoam in the gas of my 2 and 4 stroke small engines.
> 
> i had a tecumseh engine i did a carb clean on and still had a surging problem. after running a seafoam heavy mix for a while it cleared up.
> 
> it cant hurt as a fuel additive/ stabilizer so why not run it?


I use fuel stabilizer because it can't hurt and it's the right thing to do. I use a fuel carb cleaner in my gas can because it can't hurt.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

dhazelton said:


> I use 93 octane in the blower and mowers, only because I feel like the effects of ethanol is lessened by the higher octane.


Any information on this? I've heard a theory that higher octane in 2-stroke engines helps with cooling (not sure it's true) but never any details about ethanol. Interestingly, my chainsaw requires minimum 89 octane but all the 4-stroke OPE engines I've seen only require 87 octane.

FWIW, higher octane fuel is still going to have ethanol unless it's specifically labeled ethanol-free.

For 4-stroke engines the compression ratio is low enough that higher octane really shouldn't make a difference.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

I always use Seafoam with every gallon of gas, summer and winter, for the snowblowers and mowers.
and I also get ethanol-free gas for them. 

My thinking is: you never know when a problem might arise, and the additive can perhaps prevent issues from happening in the first place.
Im sold on Seafoam because of:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/Ariens/Page11.html#question4

I use about 1 or 2 gallons of gas in the winter, and probably 5 or 6 gallons in the summer..
I haven't kept track specifically, but one can of Seafoam probably lasts me 2 or 3 years..

Scot


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

BeansBaxter said:


> Any information on this? I've heard a theory that higher octane in 2-stroke engines helps with cooling (not sure it's true) but never any details about ethanol. Interestingly, my chainsaw requires minimum 89 octane but all the 4-stroke OPE engines I've seen only require 87 octane.
> 
> FWIW, higher octane fuel is still going to have ethanol unless it's specifically labeled ethanol-free.
> 
> For 4-stroke engines the compression ratio is low enough that higher octane really shouldn't make a difference.


ive read in multiple testing articles that ethanol is less in premium then regular its true it says up to 10%. but when tested premium was around 3% and regular around 8%


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

dhazelton said:


> I use a little Seafoam and Marvel Mystery Oil in my gas, and I use 93 octane in the blower and mowers, only because I feel like the effects of ethanol is lessened by the higher octane. I could be wasting a little money but I feel better about it. At the end of the season I siphon out the tank, run it out of fuel and drain whatever is in the bowl. Then I hit the inside of the tank with fogging oil. I feel that's better than leaving stabilized fuel in it for 8 or 9 months.


I agree with using Seafoam and Marvel Mystery Oil, and upon doing some research, Marvel is not a Mystery, it's quite good and used by people in the know. And what the heck, it may offset the effects of ethanol, what do we know.

But what the heck is fogging oil? I assume a very light oil to keep metal gas tanks from rusting. Tell me more, what is it, name, type of container, where do you buy it?

I tried putting a light oil in a spray bottle and it wouldn't spray out of it, then when I tried water, that didn't work either, I didn't try another sprayer. The lightest oil I can think of is hydraulic oil, maybe Marvel Mystery Oil?


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Snowbelt_subie said:


> ive read in multiple testing articles that ethanol is less in premium then regular its true it says up to 10%. but when tested premium was around 3% and regular around 8%


I doubt that is true..
I know its not true in NY state, here all grades are 10% ethanol.

Also, the different grades are often achieved by mixing at the pump..
For example, many gas stations only get 2 grades delivered, higest and lowest octane, and they only have two tanks.
The middle grades are then achieved by drawing from both tanks when you pump..
therefore, if they had different amounts of ethanol, you would get mixed results..
So its far more likely they *all* have the same amount, usually 10%, then even when you mix its still 10%.

Scot


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

BeansBaxter said:


> Any information on this? I've heard a theory that higher octane in 2-stroke engines helps with cooling (not sure it's true) but never any details about ethanol. Interestingly, my chainsaw requires minimum 89 octane but all the 4-stroke OPE engines I've seen only require 87 octane.
> 
> FWIW, higher octane fuel is still going to have ethanol unless it's specifically labeled ethanol-free.
> 
> For 4-stroke engines the compression ratio is low enough that higher octane really shouldn't make a difference.


I'm quite a newbie when it comes to snow blower upgrades, but I know petroleum and synthetics well. There's several reasons higher octane is used in 2-stroke engines. But the main reason is that 2-stroke oil dilutes octane so additional octane is needed to counter this. (Ethanol-free gasoline raises octane in other, more costly ways.) It's interesting to note that ethanol is generally higher rated than gasoline so the 87 or 89 rating on the gasoline x-ethanol would be lower.

Ethanol, itself, can be harmful to small engines which is often the primary benefit of gas treatment products.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

Snowbelt_subie said:


> ive read in multiple testing articles that ethanol is less in premium then regular its true it says up to 10%. but when tested premium was around 3% and regular around 8%


And similarly there are instances of testing where all the ethanol levels are the same across the octane range from the same station. This would be one example: Testing the Percentage of Ethanol in E10 Gasoline

The fact of the matter is that refineries can put in up to 10% ethanol in all grades of gas. Unless you are testing it yourself, you have no way of knowing what percentage is in the fuel you are buying, regardless of the octane rating. The only thing you can be sure of is that there is _some_ ethanol in there unless it is specifically labeled ethanol-free.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

Scotsman, as it turns out, at least 1,000 gas stations in the US sell octane free gas. Some only in containers rather than at the pump.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

Tony P. said:


> I'm quite a newbie when it comes to snow blower upgrades, but I know petroleum and synthetics well. There's several reasons higher octane is used in 2-stroke engines. But the main reason is that 2-stroke oil dilutes octane so additional octane is needed to counter this. (Ethanol-free gasoline raises octane in other, more costly ways.) It's interesting to note that ethanol is generally higher rated than gasoline so the 87 or 89 rating on the gasoline x-ethanol would be lower.
> 
> Ethanol, itself, can be harmful to small engines which is often the primary benefit of gas treatment products.


That's a great point about the dilution effect of pre-mix.

For gas treatment products, I was under the impression that there are two types of protection.


The older formulations like Stabil protected against fuel degradation and the dreaded gum and varnish that result.
The newer formulations address the ethanol separation problem, helping to avoid the corrosion due to the ethanol-enriched water.

You also make a great point about the octane-boosting effects of ethanol. In other words, it's cheaper to make 93 octane fuel with as much ethanol as possible. There may be other factors that cause the refinery to reduce the percentage from 10% but the economic incentive is to use as much as possible without compromising the performance or reliability of the fuel.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Tony P. said:


> Scotsman, as it turns out, at least 1,000 gas stations in the US sell octane free gas. Some only in containers rather than at the pump.


I know!  I use it myself for the snowblowers and mowers..
but I was only referring to the regular grades that all contain ethanol.
100% ethanol free wasn't part of the discussion. (at least, not in the comment I replied to.)

Scot


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

BeansBaxter said:


> And similarly there are instances of testing where all the ethanol levels are the same across the octane range from the same station. This would be one example: Testing the Percentage of Ethanol in E10 Gasoline
> 
> The fact of the matter is that refineries can put in up to 10% ethanol in all grades of gas. Unless you are testing it yourself, you have no way of knowing what percentage is in the fuel you are buying, regardless of the octane rating. The only thing you can be sure of is that there is _some_ ethanol in there unless it is specifically labeled ethanol-free.


yes this is true it does say %10 i have tested in the past and i know people who have tested for ethanol in multiple states. the most i can recall is 8% and those were all 87 and as a rule of thumb premium is always has a lesser % then the regular from the same station.

so why wouldnt you do it over the course of the year what are you saving from getting premuim to regular in your equipment $10 ?


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

Snowbelt_subie said:


> yes this is true it does say %10 i have tested in the past and i know people who have tested for ethanol in multiple states. the most i can recall is 8% and those were all 87 and as a rule of thumb premium is always has a lesser % then the regular from the same station.
> 
> so why wouldnt you do it over the course of the year what are you saving from getting premuim to regular in your equipment $10 ?


I'm not arguing for or against using premium and I agree that the price difference is (or should be) a non-factor.


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

BeansBaxter said:


> I'm not arguing for or against using premium and I agree that the price difference is (or should be) a non-factor.


and if you are using a fuel treatment with moisture control like seafoam it shouldn't be an issue either way. 

premium would only be necessary in 2 strokes for me because when you mix the oil it cuts the octane level


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

BeansBaxter said:


> That's a great point about the dilution effect of pre-mix.
> 
> For gas treatment products, I was under the impression that there are two types of protection.
> 
> ...


There certainly has been an evolution in gas treatment products going back at least to STP. I firmly believe, though, that most of that trend relates more to marketing than performance meaning that product literature now makes claims related to phase separation not that they achieve those results. In fact if you look closely these products (with only exception) they claim to help delay phase separation - not eliminate it. Interestingly, most of these products contain some form of alcohol.


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## mrfixit (Dec 3, 2016)

Sea Foam before storage, run out of fuel and a dose mid season on all my small engines and outboard.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

Tony P. said:


> There certainly has been an evolution in gas treatment products going back at least to STP. I firmly believe, though, that most of that trend relates more to marketing than performance meaning that product literature now makes claims related to phase separation not that they achieve those results. In fact if you look closely these products (with only exception) they claim to help delay phase separation - not eliminate it. Interestingly, most of these products contain some form of alcohol.


Which ones have alcohol in them? More importantly, since alcohols have different chemical properties, which ones have ethanol?

FWIW, I took a look at the MSDS of some major brands and here's what I found.

Sta-Bil it doesn't mention any form of alcohol.

B&S Advanced Fuel Treatment & Stabilizer mentions 0.1–1.0% methanol and <0.1% 2-ethyl hexanol. I don't know how either of those compares to ethanol with regards to separation or corrosion.

Star*Tron doesn't mention any form of alcohol.

SeaFoam has up to 25% isopropanol. I don't know how isopropanol compares to ethanol with regards to separation or corrosion.

Lucas Fuel Stabilizer doesn't mention any form of alcohol.

Amsoil Gasoline Stabilizer doesn't mention any form of alcohol.

STP Ethanol Fuel System Treatment doesn't mention any form of alcohol.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

BeansBaxter, you asked fairly broad questions about alcohols and treatment product ability to eliminate phase separation. Concerning alcohols, I believe all are at least somewhat hydrophilic - meaning they are attracted to water. Examples of the most hydrophilic include methanol, ethanol, n-propyl alcohol, isopropyl alcohol, and t-butyl alcohol.

I looked over what I said and realized I should have said many rather than most because I don't honestly know the percentage. They key point is that, while these products fight the corrosive property of ethanol they can't eliminate phase separation - which is a different and more potentially damaging issue - because that's a function of both the amount of ethanol and the amount of water. While the amount of ethanol can be estimated if you assume 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, the amount of water can't be estimated because that is based on the rate of condensation entering the vented tank in the form of water vapor.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

Tony P., I agree that these products can't eliminate phase separation but I believe some of them can increase the tolerance to water in the fuel, thus delaying the inevitable.

Boating Magazine ran a test several years ago and found that the good ones increased the phase separation threshold from 500 ppm of water in untreated fuel to 12,500 ppm. An increase of 25x is nothing to sneeze at.

That's a good point about the hydrophilicity of alcohols. It's part of what makes me leery of Sea Foam as a fuel stabilizer with all that isopropanol. The quantity of alcohol in the B&S product doesn't seem sufficient to worry about.


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## Bror Jace (Jan 13, 2015)

I use fuel stabilizer primarily in fuel that is about to sit for several months ... like when I'm putting something away. Examples: my snowblower, a lawn mower or my Honda S2000. 

I never buy premium (alcohol free) fuel for my OPE.

I use a top-oil (upper cylinder lubricant - UCL) about every other tankful. Typical examples: MMO, Lucas UCL or a cheap TCW3 2-stroke oil at a very low treat rate ... such as 100:1 to 200:1.

I will use a pour-in cleaner about once per year just to prevent any kind of build up in the engine. 

I think when it comes to alcohol, it comes down to when it is added and how long it sits for. Blending alcohol into fuel that could potentially sit for several months is a problem as it "collects" moisture it comes into contact with and degrades the fuel. However, if you add alcohol (such as isopropanol) to a tank of fuel and then proceed to burn it all within a few days, then it can be beneficial as the alcohol has natural cleaning tendencies and will remove any water that's already in the fuel tank.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

@Scotsman - where I live in the Hudson Valley we have a franchise called Stewarts and all of those (except in Orange County where I live!) sell ethanol free gas.

The fogging oil I use comes in a spray can and is branded by Stabil. It's probably just a thicker version of WD-40.


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## mrfixit (Dec 3, 2016)

Fogging oil is from the marine industry. Used to coat the cylinders for storage.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

dhazelton said:


> @Scotsman - where I live in the Hudson Valley we have a franchise called Stewarts and all of those (except in Orange County where I live!) sell ethanol free gas.
> 
> The fogging oil I use comes in a spray can and is branded by Stabil. It's probably just a thicker version of WD-40.


I remember Stewarts! 
(I went to College at New Paltz then lived in Albany for a year..those shops are everywhere out there!  )

Probably 5 to 7 years ago we had no ethanol-free gas in the Rochester area at all..but then a few appeared, and its actually been increasing! now I have one a mile from work, so its handy. There is clearly a market for it, so stores are filling the need. I have had no gas issues since I started using ethanol-free gas with seafoam..

Scot


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

sscotsman said:


> I remember Stewarts!
> (I went to College at New Paltz then lived in Albany for a year..those shops are everywhere out there!  )
> 
> Probably 5 to 7 years ago we had no ethanol-free gas in the Rochester area at all..but then a few appeared, and its actually been increasing! now I have one a mile from work, so its handy. There is clearly a market for it, so stores are filling the need. I have had no gas issues since I started using ethanol-free gas with seafoam..
> ...


I agree, Seafoam is a great product and I use it all the time. I find it works much better than Stabil.


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

I use the Marine grade "blue" stabil and have 40 gallons of premium gas on hand to supply my generator, if needed. The gas cans are tagged and when they get 6 months old and if not used by my lawn equipment or snow blowers they get dumped into my truck.

I bought several cans of seafoam and I plan to dump 1 OZ into the gas per gallon for the small engines. I never used seafoam otherwise and I don't have gas problems. I do run the carbs dry after the season is over.


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## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

I've been recently using the blue marine grade Stabil (double-dose), but didn't start using it until after having carburetor problems. I can't get my problems to go away so I'm about to start from scratch with a brand new carburetor. I'm thus debating & researching the purchase of ethanol-free gas. It looks like they sell it at the big box stores (Home depot/ lowes..) but it's $20/gallon can. "TruFuel". 

I also did a search and it looks like there might be a small airfield close by that sells ethanol-free gas at a pump for around $5/gallon, but it's 91 octane. I've always run 87 octane in my machines (except my Stihl 2-cycle equipment that specify 89 octane). Am I okay running 91 octane in an 8Hp Tecumseh snowblower motor? Anyone use ethanol-free gas? 

One other tid-bit, I've read that ethanol produces less BTU/Gallon than pure gas. So in an effort to save fossil fuel by using 10% ethanol, we're actually getting worse mpg, thus burning more fuel. EPA may have recently approved 15% ethanol...great....


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

ts8169 said:


> One other tid-bit, I've read that ethanol produces less BTU/Gallon than gas. So in effort to save gas by using 10% ethanol, we're actually getting worse mpg, thus burning more fuel. EPA may have recently approved 15% ethanol...great....


10% Ethanol gasoline has 3% less energy (Btus) so Yes, you will burn more fuel - but hardly measurable. 

If we go to 15% ethanol, it is going to screw up small engines drastrically, and also many cars. Hope it doesn't happen - Go Donald, don't let it happen.


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## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

So pure ethanol has about 1/3 less energy per gallon than gas (significant), but when diluted 90%/10% it's not significant. Yah, you're right, I see that. Sorry, didn't mean to make this political. 

So, is a higher octane gas okay for our snowblowers? If I can only get ethanol-free gas in the 91-94 octane rating?


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

ts8169 said:


> I also did a search and it looks like there might be a small airfield close by that sells ethanol-free gas at a pump for around $5/gallon, but it's 91 octane. I've always run 87 octane in my machines (except my Stihl 2-cycle equipment that specify 89 octane). Am I okay running 91 octane in an 8Hp Tecumseh snowblower motor? Anyone use ethanol-free gas?


Most small engines (except 2-stroke) are designed for 87 octane gasoline but higher octane can be used without harm. However, there is absolutely no benefit to using ethanol-free gasoline in the short term. Once you get beyond 2 months ethanol can begin to degrade. Even at that point, you have at least 30 days before problems arise. To avoid this, I simply pour leftover gas from storage cans into my vehicles before it's 2 months old.

Gasoline without ethanol can also begin to degrade after 2 months so a gasoline additive should be used for any fuel kept in storage or in a small engine gas tank beyond 2 months.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

Ariens hydro pro said:


> I use the Marine grade "blue" stabil and have 40 gallons of premium gas on hand to supply my generator, if needed. The gas cans are tagged and when they get 6 months old and if not used by my lawn equipment or snow blowers they get dumped into my truck.


I stockpile gasoline for my generator due to enduring numerous storm related power outages lasting days to over a week in the last six years. 

Stabil blue is my choice for storage and works perfect. Stabil has a shelf life once opened and is either eighteen or twenty-four months I forget which now. I think where some dismiss Stabil as not working are using it incorrectly. They will add the half ounce to their lawnmower gas jug and years can pass exceeding shelf life before the bottle is used up thus becoming ineffective thinking because it is a fuel stabilizer it should last forever.


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## TheChemist (Feb 28, 2017)

If you want gas that will not degrade to varnish, gums, and eat your gaskets, use Avgas; 100LL will work great and last forever. It will also take a bit more to get your rig started as the vapor pressure is a little lower than for car gas. 


You can make an excellent fuel additive with about 50% Stoddard Solvent, 30% de-odorized kerosene, 15% naptha (Coleman White Gas), and 5% isopropyl alcohol.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

TheChemist said:


> If you want gas that will not degrade to varnish, gums, and eat your gaskets, use Avgas; 100LL will work great and last forever. It will also take a bit more to get your rig started as the vapor pressure is a little lower than for car gas.
> 
> 
> You can make an excellent fuel additive with about 50% Stoddard Solvent, 30% de-odorized kerosene, 15% naptha (Coleman White Gas), and 5% isopropyl alcohol.


TheChemist - You have not been on here very long but a lot of people on here have recommended Stoddard Solvent, also Lucas Treatment, these have also been recommended on another site BobIsTheOilGuy.


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## RAYAR (Mar 7, 2015)

Usually use some Seafoam or methyl hydrate in the first few tanks and always use high grade gas, which is suppose to be ethenol free. If we get a good snowfall, it usually takes a tank of gas for my yard/driveway.


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## Sblg43 (Jan 18, 2014)

I run nothing but high octane, non-ethanol gasoline in all of my small engine.

I stopped using Sta-bil and now only use Seafoam. I did some research a while back and found out that Sta-Bil has a shelf life of about 2 years. Seafoam doesn't appear to have any shelf life. (Don't ask for my sources because ii's been awhile)

I have also had to "fix" mowers that the owners had put too much Sta-bil in the tank. It didn't harm anything except to dilute the gasoline too much. (More is not always better)

But my biggest recommendation to small engine owners is to "USE ONLY HIGH OCTANE, NON-ETHANOL GASOLINE". Around here, it is readily available. Some might not want to pay the higher price but let's face it, you are only buying 2 - 2 1/2 gallons at a time! Or you could pay me much more to clean that carburetor later!

If I think it will be awhile before I have to start the snow thrower again, I will shut off the fuel valve and let the engine run until the carburetor is empty.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Fresh E0 + Seafoam for all of my OPE.

I buy 2 gal at a time.

At the pump, the 1st gallon goes into my truck to purge the E10 from the lines.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

Sblg43 said:


> But my biggest recommendation to small engine owners is to "USE ONLY HIGH OCTANE, NON-ETHANOL GASOLINE".


I understand the non-ethanol part but what's your reasoning for high octane fuel? If non-ethanol 87 octane was available, wouldn't that be preferable for four-stroke engines?


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## 524SWE (Jan 20, 2017)

BeansBaxter said:


> I understand the non-ethanol part but what's your reasoning for high octane fuel? If non-ethanol 87 octane was available, wouldn't that be preferable for four-stroke engines?


Yes, low compression 4 cycle engines don't need high test. Unfortunately in some locales you can't get 87 octane non-ethanol gas. I'm fortunate to live near a large indian reservation and they have all three grades of non-ethanol gas.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

524SWE said:


> Yes, low compression 4 cycle engines don't need high test. Unfortunately in some locales you can't get 87 octane non-ethanol gas. I'm fortunate to live near a large indian reservation and they have all three grades of non-ethanol gas.


Plus, if you "play your cards right", you can get it for free ! Good old Turning Stone. We have a state-run casino in Schenectady now. Mark my word, there will be a shooting in there by the end of the month. It is scary in there. But, that's what the city wants...apparently. Money > lives.


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## Sblg43 (Jan 18, 2014)

BeansBaxter said:


> I understand the non-ethanol part but what's your reasoning for high octane fuel? If non-ethanol 87 octane was available, wouldn't that be preferable for four-stroke engines?


It's isn't available around here.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

Sblg43 said:


> It's isn't available around here.


Around here, all grades have ethanol. My only ethanol-free option is leaded Sunoco racing fuel.

If it's a choice between lead and ethanol, I'm choosing ethanol.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

BeansBaxter said:


> Around here, all grades have ethanol. My only ethanol-free option is leaded Sunoco racing fuel.
> 
> If it's a choice between lead and ethanol, I'm choosing ethanol.


Yeah, same here. I have one station within a reasonable driving distance that sells ethanol-free. And it's leaded racing fuel (edit- I think 110 octane low lead?), which was somewhere around $8-9/gallon the last time I was there (probably over a year ago, admittedly). 

So even though ethanol-free is appealing, I don't like the idea of standing there at the leaded-exhaust, and the price is also a drawback. I am just using my Stabil for now, every time I fill my can. 

I have tried Seafoam with 2 carbs that were dirty (needed choke), I saw no change in either, including when trying an extra-heavy mix. For one, I tried draining the tank and bowl, then adding some straight Seafoam to the tank, and trying to draw that into the carb. I let it sit several days, then changed to normal gas, still needed choke to run smoothly. Disassembling the carb and running it through the ultrasonic cleaner fixed it up, however.


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## TheChemist (Feb 28, 2017)

Sounds like many are too young to remember if you wanted unleaded, only a Citgo would have it, and you had to really search for it.

There has been a great deal of propaganda regarding leaded gasolines, don't believe everything the propaganda organs pump out.

110 racing would not run all that well in your blower as it has a much lower vapor pressure than 87 and at cold temps, it would be challenging to start if you left your blower outside in the cold.

I use 100LL AVgas in snowmachines, boat, chainsaws (modified heavily), and even my Stihl BT45 drill. It runs good, but for winter I'll mix 50/50. It runs clean and lasts forever.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

TheChemist said:


> Sounds like many are too young to remember if you wanted unleaded, only a Citgo would have it, and you had to really search for it.


In NY, you had to look for AMACO for unleaded gas.


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## BeansBaxter (Feb 17, 2015)

TheChemist said:


> Sounds like many are too young to remember if you wanted unleaded, only a Citgo would have it, and you had to really search for it.
> 
> There has been a great deal of propaganda regarding leaded gasolines, don't believe everything the propaganda organs pump out.


Thanks for the compliment but not only am I old enough to remember that time, I still own a vehicle that was built before unleaded fuel was introduced in the US.

Regarding what you refer to as propaganda regarding leaded gasolines, I'm not sure what you mean. Here's what I know about the science.

Lead is neurotoxic, even at low levels, leading to reduction in IQ and antisocial behavior. Children are especially sensitive to even low levels of lead.

The long term deleterious effects are well established by experimental and human data. These studies showed a effect at levels > 10 µg/dL with further evidence that long-term impairment occurs even at levels < 7.5 µg/dL.

As a result of the elimination of leaded fuel in the US, the mean blood level of lead went from 16 µg/dL in 1976 to 3 µg/dL in 1991.

Among children age 1 to 5, nearly 90% had blood lead levels above 10 µg/dL in 1976. By 1990, more than 90% had blood lead levels below 10 µg/dL.

Clearly using 100LL in your OPE poses a far lesser health hazard than the one we faced when all the vehicles on the road used leaded fuel. My question is why would you willingly expose yourself and possibly others to a known neurotoxin?

For reference, a gallon of 100LL has 2,119,831 µg of lead. For an adult with 5 L of blood, inhaling just 500 µg (0.02%) would be enough to get over the 10 µg/dL threshold.


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