# Ariens 910008 runs for a bit, then shuts down



## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi everyone, I posted a thread here a few months back about an Ariens I founds on Craigslist this summer. (Found here-http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/snowblower-repairs-maintenance-forum/24490-general-maintenance-ariens-910008-a.html)

I'm in New England, so today we got about 5" of snow and it's still coming down. I wouldn't call it wet by any means, it was pretty easy to shovel and plow (which I had to do manually...that's why I'm here obviously)

I opened up the fuel shutoff valve on the bottom of the gas tank, and used the electric start with full choke on and with the left hand lever on 'Park-Fast' and the gear in '1'. It started right up with the electric start, and I let it go at full choke for about 1-2 minutes, before moving it to the middle choke position where it still sounded strong. I tried moving it all the way open, but I could hear it slowing down and wanting to die, so I moved it back to half choke for a while (1-2 minutes more). I then put it to no choke and it was sounding just as good.

I put the auger gear on and started going down my paved driveway. No problem at all on the first line, but as soon as I got to the bottom of my driveway (it's not a hill, just the end of my driveway, about 20 feet long), I put it in reverse, and it immediately died out. I didn't bother trying to pull start it because I had problems with that in the past (where it would get really hard to pull and it seemed like the pull cord was being seized). 

So, I pulled it back to the garage, tried to start it up again with the electric start, and it wouldn't start up-I noticed that I had accidently moved the left hand lever from Park-fast to a bit slower, so maybe that was it. I jammed it back into park, and it started up. I got to move it about 5 feet throwing snow out, and it died again. Noticing that there was a sign on the carb cover that said remove when operating above freezing so I took that cover off, and that didn't help.

Went back, this time it started with the choke open, but almost died, so I closed the choke a bit, and kept it running, another 5 feet, and it died on me.

Tried one more time, and it didn't want to start. I saw some sparks around the front of the carb (guessing by the starter?). I gave it a rest while I shoveled, then came back, and it started up again, but died out shortly after (like 15 seconds).

I don't get it. The fuel is good (I think-had stabilizer in it and just purchased a few months ago). The fuel shutoff was wide open (I actually had it open since it got cold out, but I closed it a week or two ago because I smelled gas in the garage, turns out it was leaking out of the shutoff valve) during the whole operation.

The guy I bought it from fixes these things and resells them as a side job, and he put a new fuel filter on it right in front of me and said he had changed the oil and spark plug just a week before I bought it.

Reading online, I'm wondering if maybe the vent on the gas cap is plugged? I could try leaving the gas cap off and seeing how long it lasts this time around.

Also, regarding the snow, was I pushing it too hard the first time? I couldn't just do half off the width of the blower like I've heard you need to do for wet snow, but it was spitting it out pretty well on that first run. Once I had that part cleared, the next path I only used half the width of the blower, but it still died on me.

Here's my guesses, but I'll leave it to the pros here:

1) Possible plugged up gas cap
2) Maybe the spark plug is bad and just needs changed? I also just noticed that the spark plug isn't a standard 5/8, and I don't have a 7/8 deep well socket which is what it looks like it needs.
3) Bad gas
4) maybe the carb needs overhauled/tuned up
5) the left hand lever (with Stop, Slow, Park, Fast on it) doesn't seem to work as indicated. If I leave it on "fast" it was running, but when I tried to slow it down a bit by moving the lever toward STOP, it would just die out...there was no wiggle room in there. The reason I was trying to slow it down because even in gear 1 (on the right side handle), it was moving really quick. I don't have anything to compare it to, but it was moving pretty fast for me...I can't even imagine trying gears 2-4 because I think I'd be running behind the thing.

Any suggestions are more than welcome. I shoveled the whole driveway earlier, but there's an inch or two to play with now.

Here's a picture of the lever on the left I'm talking about


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Here's some more pictures...

Carb cover off, supposed to press the black button if temp is below 10 degrees, but it doesn't look like it does anything:









Top of where carb cover normally is:









Front of blower with spark plug wire detached:









Gas can with cover off..looks like the cap has some rust on it:









Guessing this is the starter?









New fuel filter:


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Well, it is obvious something is wrong. Either it is lacking fuel and needs the carb cleaned or is lacking spark and maybe the points are bad. You said it leaks oil right? Maybe oil is leaking onto the points?


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

could be the valve seats are recessed and when it get warm there is not enough valve lash and the exhaust valve is not fully closing causing lack of power/stalling. this is a pretty common problem with l head tech engines.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Shryp said:


> Well, it is obvious something is wrong. Either it is lacking fuel and needs the carb cleaned or is lacking spark and maybe the points are bad. You said it leaks oil right? Maybe oil is leaking onto the points?


No, it's not leaking oil. I left the shut-off valve for the gas tank open for a few months and I noticed gas was leaking out of it the other day, so I shut it before I had to use it today.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

CarlB said:


> could be the valve seats are recessed and when it get warm there is not enough valve lash and the exhaust valve is not fully closing causing lack of power/stalling. this is a pretty common problem with l head tech engines.


This sounds like something that you can't really mess with, save for replacing the engine...


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

nwin said:


> This sounds like something that you can't really mess with, save for replacing the engine...


This is not a very difficult repair, but it does require removing the head, carb and oil breather to get access to the valves. This is a common problem on Tecumseh engines. What engine is on your blower?

if it is a single shaft engine engine replacement options are many. One of the more popular single shaft engine swaps is the harbor freight predator engines which can be had for less than 100 dollars.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I don't know, but the choke plate/cold weather assist "funnel" (not sure what else to call it) looks to be varnished and charred. It shouldn't be, with leads my to believe that there is a situation that is allowing for fuel and exhaust gasses leaking back through. This may be indicative to the valves not closing completely, and sealing.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

db9938 said:


> I don't know, but the choke plate/cold weather assist "funnel" (not sure what else to call it) looks to be varnished and charred. It shouldn't be, with leads my to believe that there is a situation that is allowing for fuel and exhaust gasses leaking back through. This may be indicative to the valves not closing completely, and sealing.


Are you talking about the thing in this picture with the black button?


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

CarlB said:


> This is not a very difficult repair, but it does require removing the head, carb and oil breather to get access to the valves. This is a common problem on Tecumseh engines. What engine is on your blower?
> 
> if it is a single shaft engine engine replacement options are many. One of the more popular single shaft engine swaps is the harbor freight predator engines which can be had for less than 100 dollars.


From what I can tell, it looks stock. It still has the Ariens paint (maybe it was a sticker, but it looks like it was painted) that says 'Ariens powered by Tecumseh 7HP'

My main thing is, I bought this used on Craigslist for about $280 I think? At this point, I'm wondering if it's worth dropping another $100 on an engine or not. Besides that, how would I know what would fit? This is the closest thing I can see to what you were talking about: 6.5 HP (212cc) OHV Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine EPA

Would an engine replacement be pretty much plug and play?


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

nwin said:


> Here's some more pictures...
> 
> Carb cover off, supposed to press the black button if temp is below 10 degrees, but it doesn't look like it does anything:


That black push button is what "I" call a mechanical primer which in principle, works the same as a bulb type push button primer found on almost all newer engines. 
When the weather is below freezing -
1-Turn on gas valve
2-Set choke to closed
3-Set throttle to fast
4-While pushing in and holding the black button, pull the starter cord one or two times. (This causes the fuel to be drawn into the engine)
5-Turn the ignition switch "ON"
6-Pull the starter cord or use the electric start to start the engine
7-Move choke lever to half and allow engine to warm before moving choke to off.

If your carb has low and high speed adjustment screws, you may have to tweak them to make the engine run better. The screw on the bottom of the float bowl is for high speed and may to be turned out a 1/4 or 1/2 turn to richen the fuel mixture. The adjustments are in the manual below. I hope this helps.
http://www.barrettsmallengine.com/manual/tecumsehlheadmanual.pdf


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

nwin said:


> Are you talking about the thing in this picture with the black button?



Well, primarily the intake funnel appears to have a bit of carbonization and varnish. The cold weather assist mechanism does have a patina, and a little bit of surface rust


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

I give it 90% odds the problem is:

4) maybe the carb needs overhauled/tuned up

my 1971 Ariens (with original Tecumseh) exhibited the same behavior for years..not running well, stalling out, not running well on "no choke" as it should..I fiddled with the carb adjustment myself, not knowing anything about it when I started..got it running "ok" but not great..
I even worked up the courage to take the bowl off and install a carb kit! learned a lot by doing it, but still was far from an expert..

Finally a friend came over, who has WAY more experience than me! and actually knows *fully* what to do..gave the bowl a quick clean, and adjusted the jets *properly*..runs like a top now!  runs better than it ever has in the six years I have owned it:

Carb rebuild on a Tecumseh - Engines - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens-snowblowers/30057-adding-my-ariens-collection-3.html

I suspect getting the carb properly adjusted, and cleaned (if it needs it) will completely solve all the problems you experienced..

in my experience, the carb has been the source of, and the solution to, the only problems my '71 Ariens has ever had.

Scot


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

sscotsman said:


> I give it 90% odds the problem is:
> 
> 4) maybe the carb needs overhauled/tuned up
> 
> ...


Very interesting. I like to tinker with things, but I'm not the most mechanically inclined person on earth. I'm not sure which would be the best option, taking into account cost vs. gain vs. time spent on it.

1) Clean the carb, adjust it. (Just buying the carb cleaner and investing my time)

2) Buy a new carb, install it. ($30-40 on ebay?)

3) Buy a new engine (like the Predator mentioned earlier for $100-120)

4) Comedy option: Sell this thing on Craigslist since I'm not sure if there's anything else wrong with it, for a loss of course, and buy a new one.

More questions:

5) What tools are needed for cleaning or installing a new carb?

6) How do I tell which engine model I have? It's a 7hp Tecumseh, I'm pretty sure, but not sure of the exact model number.

Thanks again for everyone's advice and help! This is a great forum.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Just curious as I continue to learn more...In this thread: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...s-great-then-after-1-2-hour-gasps-stalls.html the symptoms seem similar to mine (though his runs a bit longer than mine does). Just curious why the suggestions for him centered around the gas cap, where mine was all the carb? Just because mine hasn't been tuned up that I know of? Or is there something else I'm missing?


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Hey guys, so a bit of an update.

As it turns out, I still had an old e-mail laying around from the guy I bought it from, and he remembered me luckily! He said that my gas is too old. He goes with the recommendation of 30 days without stabilizer, 90 days with stabilizer. I think it's due to the alcohol or whatever they put in the gas up here in Mass, perhaps. He told me to drain the gas, spray the carb with carb cleaner and let it sit overnight, put fresh gas in it, and maybe I'd luck out. If that doesn't work he would be willing to rebuild the carb for me, which he said he probably did already.

Well, I went to the internet and saw some quick maintenance tips that I figured I could do and removed the bowl...it looks like a new bowl and gasket, so I think he rebuilt it with some new parts, but there was something in there...take a look:




























The main jet looks decent from what I can tell, but theres something in that bowl.

I cleaned it all out with some carb cleaner and put it back together, so here's hoping that fixes it.

Any other recommendations? I also drained all the gas into a container, so I can grab some new gas tomorrow.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Picture number two shows the high speed adjustment screw. The smooth portion between the two threaded sections has a very small metering hole that has to be clear. Some people use the twist tie wire from a loaf of bread, others have gas torch tip cleaners to ream it out.
Hard to tell from the pictures if that is rust or dried up fuel stabilizer in the bowl.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Grunt said:


> Picture number two shows the high speed adjustment screw. The smooth portion between the two threaded sections has a very small metering hole that has to be clear. Some people use the twist tie wire from a loaf of bread, others have gas torch tip cleaners to ream it out.
> Hard to tell from the pictures if that is rust or dried up fuel stabilizer in the bowl.


Yeah, the metering hole was very hard to look into, so I may take apart the assembly tomorrow and clear that out like you indicated.

One other thing that I noticed when I took the bowl off. I was trying to put the bowl back on, and in doing so, I knocked the pin/needle off of the float. I've looked at videos online and it seems like it may be a pain to put the pin/needle back onto the float when it's still installed (so upside down where all the other videos have it right side up).

As to what's in the bowl, it was pretty dark, so I'm thinking in my uneducated opinion that the gas tank may be rusting and rust is coming from that perhaps? If so, it might be a better call to just buy the Predator with new everything onboard.


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## gsnod (Sep 2, 2013)

nwin -- Perhaps a fuel filter and a new fuel line would be the next step. That's my next project with my '71


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

gsnod said:


> nwin -- Perhaps a fuel filter and a new fuel line would be the next step. That's my next project with my '71


That's an interesting suggestion. When I bought it this past Fall, the guy I bought it from put new fuel lines and a new filter on it. It started up great and had no problems, but after we got done talking I noticed some fuel leaking at the fuel filter. He said he'd seen it before and he had bought a bunch of cheap fuel filters and that was a common problem and that he was done buying them. He installed a brand new fuel filter right there for me.

I noticed today when I was draining the gas tank that the lines were insanely hard. I'm guessing this was just due to the cold temperature (below freezing, about 20 degrees outside).

I'd be hard pressed to think it would need a new fuel filter after only starting it up for a total of maybe 40 minutes since I've had it. Do you agree?


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Welp, I'm confused.

I cleaned out the bowl, took a wire to the high speed adjust screw metering hole and cleaned that out. Put everything back together, filled it with 93 octane gas, go to start it up, and nothing.

It was just at freezing, so I figured the engine would be cold. My stepdad told me to take a hair dryer and warm up the block and carb with that, so I did for about 5 minutes.

All the settings were right, and I pushed the primer in, pulled the cord twice to draw some fuel in, and then tried cranking the electric start. It sounded like it wanted to crank over, but it just gave a few 'puts' and stopped. I tried a few more times and it was less than the first.

Figuring maybe I flooded the engine, so I left it alone for a while and came back 30 minutes later and tried again-no dice.

I need to have a look at the spark plug, but of course my toolset didn't come with a socket that big (it's not 5/8" like most of them are...and it's bigger than 3/4" which is the largest size socket I have).

Any other suggestions? I took the carb off and currently have many of the parts sitting in the gallon can of carb cleaner. When I took it off I did verify that the float sits level like it is supposed to.

Should I just buy this instead? My engine is h70-130067

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-SNOWBLOWER-TECUMSEH-H70-H80-7HP-8HP-9HP-REPLACES-631793-OR-631440-/111544853374?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6390


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## AandPDan (Nov 18, 2014)

A couple of things, that "fuel" line you're using, the clear stuff, get rid of it. It's not meant to carry fuel and will leak soon. That's also why they are so hard. Odds are you'll have a nice engine fire too. Get some real fuel line from an auto parts store.

Lose the fuel filter temporarily. They can cause problems in snowblowers. It did not come with one.

I don't think it is an ignition problem.

Pull the float bowl again and make sure that fuel flows freely when the float is down and stops when you gently lift the float. Make sure there is no water in the bowl, that came from the tank.

Put the bowl back on and set the main jet needle out to about 1 1/2 turns and try to start it.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

i would have the guy look at it only because it was sold as working and he should be responsible for fixing it


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

AandPDan said:


> A couple of things, that "fuel" line you're using, the clear stuff, get rid of it. It's not meant to carry fuel and will leak soon. That's also why they are so hard. Odds are you'll have a nice engine fire too. Get some real fuel line from an auto parts store.
> 
> Lose the fuel filter temporarily. They can cause problems in snowblowers. It did not come with one.
> 
> ...


Excellent information. I'll grab some new line tomorrow and put that on instead of this hard crap. 

When you say pull the float bowl, I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

1) Put everything back together.
2) Disconnect the carb bowl
3) With the fuel valve (on the gas tank) open, fuel should be flowing out. When I lift the float, it should stop, correct?


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

nwin said:


> Excellent information. I'll grab some new line tomorrow and put that on instead of this hard crap.
> 
> When you say pull the float bowl, I just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.
> 
> ...



Correct, do not push up hard on the float it shouldn't take much to stop the fuel. If there is no fuel with the float in the down position you have a fuel delivery problem from the tank.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

*Success!*

I got some new fuel line (black rubber) at the auto store. Interestingly enough, they had some yellow plastic stuff similar to the stuff I had on before that was marked as fuel line also, but I stayed away from it.

Installed that (which was a major PITA because I had to take the engine cover off because there's a small guiding hole in the middle and the hose just barely fits through the holes.

Anyways, I ran that through, dried off the carb and put it all back together. Opened up the fuel line, disconnected the bowl, fuel was leaking freely through it. When I lifted the float, fuel stopped, so I put it back together again.

One problem I noticed (it's ten degrees right now), is that I drew some fuel in my pressing the primer in while pulling the cord twice, and fuel started coming out near the choke. Maybe just too much fuel? I think I'll order a new kit with new gaskets and install those just to make sure in the next week or so.

I cleaned up all the extra fuel around the carb and started it with the electric start. No go on the first time, but the second time I hit the button it started up with full choke on. I left it at full choke for a minute before running it to the next setting on the choke and it sounded better, so I let that sit for about two minutes before trying to open the choke fully. However, I heard it wanting to die, so I went to the setting next to open choke and it began to purr again. Left that for about 3 minutes and then opened up to full and it was going good.

I took the speed down on the throttle from fast to just a little bit slower and it was still running well. So, I engaged the augers, held my breath, and pushed on the gas and it ran!

I was so happy at this point that I forgot I didn't have gloves on, and proceeded to knock out a good thirty feet of snow (all 2' high). I was a bit overeager because I took on a 2' pile head on and it pushed for a good bit but ended up dying. I think it was just too much snow at once. So I backed it up, turned the choke back on, and tried to start with the electric starter and it wouldn't. I opened the choke up to full and it started up no problem.

Ended up clearing about another 100 feet of snow at least, then realized I was freezing my butt off so decided to come inside and post this.

Now, a few questions that are still lingering...

1) For the adjustment on the jet (The screw at the bottom of the bowl). How do I know what an ideal setting is? I started it at 1.5 turns out and it was running, and I could tell I was turning it in too lean because I heard it wanting to die, but I wasn't hearing any different when I turned the screw counterclockwise to make it richer. I can only hear a difference when I screw it in to make it leaner. Any tips?

2) The fuel shutoff knob at the bottom of the tank is leaking sometimes. The way it works is there is a nut that looks like it connects to a thread on the bottom of the tank, and then outside of the nut it a knob I can use to open/close it. I think I may just need a new o-ring on there, but anyone have any tips for adjusting this thing correctly?

3) For the skids, I think an adjustment might be necessary. If I'm just plowing, it's leaving about 1" of snow on the ground. If I pull UP HARD on the handles as I'm plowing, it leaves nearly bare ground. Is that just the way I have to use the machine by pulling up on the handles as I plow?

Gotta admit, I'm feeling pretty accomplished right now. Glad I didn't just give up on the thing and buy a new one today (which I was nearing that point).


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## AandPDan (Nov 18, 2014)

The yellow tubing you saw is another type of fuel line. The clear stuff you had is for air/water and won't last. The black line is what it had and works.

To adjust mixture just turn it slightly one way or the other until the engine runs good. Wait until it's warmed up a bit beforehand. It sounds like you have it running very well.

You probably do have to adjust the skids some. 

There's a lot of different styles of tank fittings. Some use grommets and others screw in. I'm not sure of what style you have.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

1) You have to find out where it starts running rough on the rich side and where it starts running rough on the lean side and get it right in the middle of those 2.

2) It is suppose to be open all the way. You can get new fittings and they usually just screw into the tank.

3) You can set the skids so the scraper bar is basically on the ground. If you have hard packed ice and snow you are going to have to pull up to get it to dig in. You could try sharpening the scraper bar, but it will wear down on its own from use. The other thing some people do is add weight to the bucket.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Good job stickin' with it there nwin!!! Sounds like its all downhill from here!!


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Pushing the primer to many times will cause gas to leak out the carb throat and is quite normal. Sounds like a little tweaking of the carb adjustments and you will be perfect.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Grunt said:


> Pushing the primer to many times will cause gas to leak out the carb throat and is quite normal. Sounds like a little tweaking of the carb adjustments and you will be perfect.


Yeah, that's what I figured-glad to know it's working as intended!

I'm pretty surprised though-I only held the button in while I pulled the cord twice...and it was 10 degrees outside, so I figured maybe that wouldn't even be enough.

I guess next time I'll just pull the cord once and see how that goes.

One other question-when I was taking apart the carb last night-I was trying to get the emulsion tool out and could not. The videos I saw online for it showed people taking out a plastic emulsion tube, but mine appears to be brass. Do those just stay in there? I figured there was an o-ring on it that may need replaced.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Also, a little more help needed. I want to buy a rebuild kit for the carb in case I need to change any of the orings or gaskets.

Is this the right one?


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## AandPDan (Nov 18, 2014)

There a a lot of variations of the carburetors. Can you post the engine model numbers, it'll be stamped in the shroud. It should start with H70 or HM70. Then we can look up the correct kit.

Your carb is most likely a brass tube that does not come out.


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

AandPDan said:


> There a a lot of variations of the carburetors. Can you post the engine model numbers, it'll be stamped in the shroud. It should start with H70 or HM70. Then we can look up the correct kit.
> 
> Your carb is most likely a brass tube that does not come out.



Yep, sorry about that. h70-130067

also, I read about the brass emulsion tube and that it can't be removed, so I'm good there.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Your carb appears to be a Tecumseh 631440 and uses the Tecumseh 31840 carb repair kit. 

Tecumseh TEC-631440, 631440-TEC Exploded View Parts Lookup by Model


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## nwin (Oct 4, 2014)

Took it out again today to clear some more of my driveway and backyard in prep for the 12" were supposed to get tomorrow-ran like a champ.

When taking it into the backyard I hit a rock and snapped a shear pin off-easy to replace and I'm glad I followed someone's suggestion here and bought a few of them before hand!

One thing I started to notice as I continued to plow is the shifting is a bit jerky. Going aft, from 4th gear to reverse, it moves just fine. However, taking the gear from Reverse and trying to move it to first, it started getting pretty hard to move. From 1st-4th went fine.

I'm wondering if it just needs some lube or grease on the linkage? Maybe running over the snow so much rubbed some of it off? Any ideas?

Also, should I even bother adding stabilizer to the fuel? I'm hesitant to do so because of what happened last time when I left it in there for a bit (4 months). It might not be related at all, but I'm still hesitant to do so. I figure any snow we get I'm going to be refilling the tank quite a bit anyways, so maybe just fill it up with enough gas less than 30 days old to take care of the job...


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## Ken692 (Feb 15, 2013)

Change that oil, check that plug wire is tight.


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