# Toro 824 powershift won't start



## imfletcher (Nov 14, 2019)

Greetings all,


Just purchased a used 824 powershift, serial 4900705, model 38540, tecumseh 8hp. Previous owner put a brand new carb on it a month ago. When I picked it up, it started on first pull. I brought it home, started on first pull, drove it in the garage. It sat for two weeks, and now it won't start. I have tried:
Drain and replace gas
Checked oil, it's fresh and full

Double checked key, it's turned to on (no Griswold moments yet)
Replaced spark plug
Checked ignition coil/plug with in-line spark tester, I clearly have a spark
I tried adding a half-teaspoon of gas into the spark plug hole, nothing happened, which surprised me

I tried spraying starter fluid into the hole, it would not even pop, now am really scratching my head
I have messed with carb adjustments a little, made no difference
I tried praying, that hasn't worked yet
I tried talking sweet, no luck
I tried swearing, that's when I turned to the darkest of all places, the internet....

I have spent hours reading forums and watching videos and am now wondering if the issue is compression due to a valve not seating properly (I feel like the starter rope has some decent resistance but I don't know what's normal). Or perhaps even though I see a spark, the coil is crappy because how could the starter fluid not pop...could that be caused by a valve being open? 



Any thoughts? If it is a valve job, might be more than I can do, any ballpark guesses on cost to have a small engine pro do the job?


Thanks for any help


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

* Check the switch on the Dash Board. *


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## imfletcher (Nov 14, 2019)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * Check the switch on the Dash Board. *


Thanks for the idea, I will check this when I can, but one question: if the key is turned on and the plug showed sparks when grounded on the engine, and then the inline spark tester also showed sparks when tested with the plug screwed in, doesn't that rule out the switch as an issue?

I appreciate the help.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Reset the spark plug gap to 25 thousandths and try that before you go any further.

Be sure that the piston is near or at top dead center before you try to start it also.

The main reason I suggest this is if the spark plug having been improperly gapped/gapped wrong can cause huge headaches.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

If you've got spark and fuel....check the keyway in the flywheel....if sheared, you'll get spark at the wrong time.....


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## imfletcher (Nov 14, 2019)

Thanks for the ideas. I have now checked the dashboard switch, it seems fine. I tried with spark plug gap at .025 and piston at TDC. I also checked the flywheel key, which seems to be perfectly healthy with no signs of shearing. Still no luck, and thoroughly dumbfounded. Any ideas where to go next? 

I appreciate the help!


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## imfletcher (Nov 14, 2019)

Here's a pic of the flywheel key, does that look okay? I thought it looked good but I'm really not exactly sure what I'm looking at.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

If the keyway in the crank is lined up with the keyway slot in the flywheel...then you are good. Hard to tell from the picture, but pull the flywheel and really double check...It looks like it could be sheared to me.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

by chance is the gas shutoff valve turned on ?? the throttle off the slow stop?


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## arienskids (Jan 26, 2018)

check your valve clearances, .008 on intake, .012 on exhaust


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## imfletcher (Nov 14, 2019)

Here's the flywheel key with the flywheel removed, looks fine, right?



There actually is no gas shutoff valve on this one, the previous owner put a new gas line on, there's no shut-off valve or fuel filter for that matter.


So is that where the next step is, checking valve clearances?


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## imfletcher (Nov 14, 2019)

....and yes, the throttle is off stop!


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

Try this. You know you have spark so you claim, I'm sure you have compression as it started by the other guy and by you. So now it sat and won't start. Keep the choke lever off the choke... In run position. Spray starting fluid or carb cleaner into the carb throat, now move the choke lever to choke and try to start. If it kicks on even for a few seconds we can assume you have a fuel problem. You may have the float needle in the carb stuck in the closed position. Tab the solid part of the carb with another metal object to possibly dislodge the needle and try to start then. Had this just the other day and this was the issue.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

As mentioned . . . I would try starting fluid of even a few drops of gasoline in the carburetor (not the cylinder itself) and see if the engine wants to kick.


Do you have electric start? or pull start.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

* From the looks of it. that thing has Points in it. Did you check Them??????*


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## melson (Feb 9, 2015)

Shorted capacitor? Remove capacitor wire from points and give it go...


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## melson (Feb 9, 2015)

I forgot he said he has spark at the plug so forget what I said about the capacitor.


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## imfletcher (Nov 14, 2019)

Thanks for all the ideas, I will try starter fluid in carb again in the way described....will be radio silent for a few days, deer season in Wisconsin, but will get back to you when I make progress, thanks again, very much appreciated.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Yeah if you're not even getting a fart out of it with starting fluid, you probably don't have spark.

sidenote: if you start messing with that magneto assembly behind the flywheel, avoid loosening those 2 bolts holding the magneto to the block without at least marking the position; they set the spark advance (_usually 80 thousands BTDC but refer to the l-head service manual to be sure_). Additionally, The points often need a little TLC from emory cloth or a points file (or a new set of points).


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

If you have spark it pretty much eliminates key position or throttle position as causes. Having the throttle on fast is best. You have spark, you've tried added gas and starting fuel so even if the fuel shut off is off it should still pop if not run for a second or two. So it's not fuel.
From what I've read above it's either timing or lack of compression. From the looks of the key I would guess you'd at least get a pop as it looks pretty close if not correct. It's hard to think it would lose compression in two weeks unless a valve stuck. When you pull it over does it feel like the compression is correct? If in doubt you should do a compression test on it. If you don't or a friend don't have a tester some of the auto parts stores loan (free) them. Is the spark a good crisp crack ?

Sorry, didn't see this had gone to second page. Checking the points is a very good idea even though you have spark. There is spark and then there is the spark you need to fire a mixture under compression. They are not the same.
It might also be a good time to upgrade to solid state ignition if you'd be keeping the blower long term. Personally I love my PowerShifts.




https://duckduckgo.com/?q=points+replacement+for+small+engine&t=chromentp&atb=v185-1&ia=videos
You should add your location to your profile.
.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I agree with cran, it looks like the keyway sheared and the flywheel is wedged offset against the shaft … I would pull the flywheel and thoroughly check it out ...


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

I can see offset too but that's the camera angle and not offset. If it were directly taken from above you would not see an offset. The key is perfect and no sign of shear. That's my take. Maybe the points and the spark he speaks of is not a good spark for ignition purposes.


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## imfletcher (Nov 14, 2019)

I'm back with an update. Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it...however I found the culprit and it wasn't exactly what any of us suspected. One of the magnets in the flywheel had broken loose and slid over to the other magnet, so I didn't notice it when I first removed the flywheel (it's probably less than an inch out of place). But sure enough, it was loose. I put it back in the original position (you could see the rust-free square clearly) with some JB Weld, put everything back together and it cranked up in a couple pulls! Crazy. Anyway, this explains why there was spark, but apparently it wasn't enough of a quality spark to do the job under compression. 



Interestingly, it appears the other magnet had previously been hit with a little epoxy as well. Which got me thinking that this engine has been around the block. So, I'm wondering if anyone has input on a few further questions:


1) This engine has points, and the manual that matches the serial number on the machine (49000000 series - 1994 manufacture I believe) shows an engine with an electronic ignition from what I can tell....is it possible I'm looking at a machine that's had it's engine replaced with an older model? Seems to me by 1994 electronic ignitions were pretty standard, no?


2) It seems to be running good, everyone who has one seems to swear by them, so I'd like to keep it going awhile. One of the recommendations in this thread suggested upgrading to a solid state electronic ignition, which I'd consider, but my question is how? I've seen some examples of upgrades, but they were all models (mostly Briggs I think) that had the ignition outside the flywheel, and this tecumseh has the whole ignition mechanism within the flywheel (see earlier pics I posted). I haven't been able to find any examples online of how one would upgrade. Thoughts?


3) I forgot what my third question was, but that's the risk you take when you celebrate small engine victories with bourbon!


Thanks all


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## arienskids (Jan 26, 2018)

by 1994 it should an have electronic ignition setup. i think they switched to electronic sometime in the mid to late 80s


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

" I forgot what my third question was, but that's the risk you take when you celebrate small engine victories with bourbon!""

i use moonshine for a victory drink,
changing to electronic from points is easy and a good move,


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