# 2014 HS720 motor failure?!?



## Excitabletom (Jan 16, 2016)

*2014 HS720 motor failure?!? *Final report**

Hello Friends,

I need to vent and ask if this has happened to anyone else. I bought a new HS720 Honda snow thrower on Oct 14, 2014. It came with a 24 month warranty. Season one was just fine. Glad I had purchased a Honda!

October, 2015, I pre-season the Honda with an oil change. I actually bought and used Honda 5W-30. Test start produced a big blue cloud, but I assumed that was from tilting the machine to drain the oil. Blue smoke stopped after 10-15 seconds and it ran fine. I parked the Honda thinking I was ready for winter. 

Winter came late in Michigan this year. I have maybe 2 hours on the machine total this season. Each start produced a large cloud of blue smoke for about 10-15 seconds, then the machine ran just fine. The smoke definitely smelled like burned oil. I checked the dipstick and saw that it was below half. This is when I decided to take it back to the Honda dealer I bought it from for warranty inspection and repair.

Today I get a call. Bore scope into cylinder shows cylinder is grooved and wrecked. Dealer says the motor is a complete loss and repairs are more than buying a new unit. Warranty? "Probably not. 75% change they won't warranty it because damage was caused by low oil and its operator error." I said the machine is burning oil; which came first? The burning oil causing low oil level (low, not empty) or low oil causing engine failure? I know the oil level was full, but how can that ever be proved?

Claim gets submitted to Honda on Monday, 1-18-16.

I am sad. Has this happened to anyone else? This is the first year of the 7 HP blower (I think) Any ideas or thoughts.

I used to love my Honda snowthrowers, now I'm not so sure...


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

I'd PM [email protected] and see if he can be of any help.
I'd say it is 50-50 chance. You can not prove that it did not run out of oil, but also they can not prove that you did run it out of oil.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

I would think that before they can deny warranty, that engine needs to be opened up to see what exactly is going on in there. Maybe somebody forgot to install the oil splash dipper. An engine with that few hours shouldn't be burning oil, unless you ran it the first year with seriously low oil. Do you check the oil before starting the engine every time you use it? Seems also to me that the dealer should be in your corner when he discusses it with Honda. Problems can happen with machines, and unless there is evidence of obvious abuse by the customer, he should be supporting your claim, and not suggesting you buy a new one.


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## Excitabletom (Jan 16, 2016)

Who is Robert @ Honda?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

That would be this guy: Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums - View Profile: [email protected]


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Excitabletom said:


> Who is Robert @ Honda?


Robert works for Honda and he is a tremendous help for Honda owners here and at other forums.
Send him a PM explaining your situation and see if he can be of any help.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Nice to have connections! See what the Dealer comes back with...... I bet they get you taken care of. Good luck!


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## Terrance (Dec 28, 2015)

There is no way, from what you have written, that anything should have went wrong with your Honda. I would press for a brand new machine... or at least the price of your new [in 2014] machine and you pay the difference for a new 2016.
Again, with just a few hours on your 2014 machine there is no way it should have failed. It _had to have _been a manufacturing defect. [apart from *obvious *user error]. Have you let anyone use it besides yourself? Account for every second of use so your dealer can rule out anything but manufacturer problems. IN any case you need to diagnose what the problem was. So you know what went wrong.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

Tom, you've got mail.


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## Bob Cat (Jul 15, 2014)

I've heard of oil rings installed upside down . Each upstroke scrapped oil into the cylinder, used lots of oil . 
Keep us posted .I'd like to know what Honda says.


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Hopefully things can be taken care of and you can feel good enough that you might want to change your screen name from Excitabletom to Calmeddowntom.


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## Excitabletom (Jan 16, 2016)

Tuesday, 1-19-16 update

Local dealership called. The only work they have performed is a scope into the cylinder and drained the oil, but found no metal shavings. At this moment, it appears to be lack of oil caused the failure and they cannot submit warranty request without a broken part number. Thus no warranty claim yet.

Dealer wanted my permission to tear down the motor looking for what happened / what part broke. The reason they called and asked is if they find no broken part, they will charge me labor to tear the motor down seeking engine failure reason. 

Oddly, they did know that to rebuild the motor, with parts and labor (4 hours) would be around $550 on a $700 snowthrower.

All parties are remaining calm and pleasant (Yes, I really am) and still hope for resolution that involves warranty paying to fix my thrower. And by the way, it was NEVER out of oil. Promise!

FYI, Excitabletom comes from my winter love of snowmobiles and I used to own several Yamaha Exciters. I have been Excitabletom for many years on various forums! k:


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## Excitabletom (Jan 16, 2016)

Update #2 1-19-2016

The dealer called to share that the motor will be warrantied! It is not Honda approved, but they are going to recommend Honda rebuild the motor. Claim gets submitted tomorrow and they said they usually hear "in about a day."

So, I asked, what caused the engine failure?

Snow ingestion. There is no air filter and the motor sucked in snow that "washed" the oil off the cylinder walls so no lubrication was present. 

That confuses me. A snowthrower that ingests snow? And this gets warrantied? 

I am withholding my celebration until the shop confirms warranty will cover all costs.

Has anyone ever heard of this???


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

i would guess a big thumbs up for [email protected] ......but thats only a guess.


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## Bob Cat (Jul 15, 2014)

If the blower ingests enough snow to do that damage ,it must be a poor design and therefore a common problem .


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I won't argue the warranty coverage, but every snowblower that I've worked on, never had an air filter. They simply used a shield to prevent it from being ingested. And I would think that it would take white out conditions, to ingest enough to do what they explained to you. And I would think that the plug would become wet and kill it, before it washed down the cylinder.... Oh well, it's covered. That's the big thing.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Snow ?? Shouldn't even slow it down.

I'm a little skeptical of their answer but all I care about is that you're taken care of.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Yeah me too...? Yellow snow I could understand! ;>P Oh, well. the fact is something out of the ordinary was not good. As long as it's taken care of and works well you are golden. Good luck to ya!


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Hmm, Perhaps the manual will be reprinted in future with a caution that the machine should not be used in an environment where there might be air born snow within 3 feed of the carb intake.

I think I would be jumping in my car and visiting the dealer to take a look at the engine for myself, and seeing the damage, the piston and rings, and the looking for a MISSING part at the bottom of the connecting rod and maybe rust on the intake valve seat. Creative suggestion, I have to admit, but I think that there is more to it than that. However, I suppose we should not inspect the teeth of a gifthorse too closely, until the gift is home and working.


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## AesonVirus (Aug 24, 2015)

I've used my machine where my sessions end with the entire machine being completely covered in a layer of snow.
I can see them saying not to submerge the machine in water but I have never heard of a snow blower dying by contact with snow.


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## yarcraftman (Jan 30, 2014)

I am confused on this with your dealers explanation of what happened? I agree I have never heard of air filters on snowblowers.

More importantly, my opinion is that they should be installing a NEW engine in this unit and not rebuild it? I mean really you have 2 hours total on this machine and they want to put a rebuilt engine in this?

I am happy they are helping you but it seems to me you paid for a new machine and only have 2 hours on it? Its seems unreasonable to me to put a rebuild in there. You could have purchased a used snowblower if you wanted one of those?


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## mikeinri (Mar 16, 2015)

I'd be asking for a new engine. Presumably, they prepped (filled oil) this before delivery? This would need to have a ridiculous leak to be shot after two hours if it were simply a leak. 

If it really injested snow, I'd like to know how they proved that, and how you're supposed to prevent doing it again during normal use.

I might be looking for a refund and new dealer. Call the BBB if they refuse.

Mike


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## Excitabletom (Jan 16, 2016)

Two hours this season plus a full season last year. I am not asking any questions until it is done, warrantied and in my truck. Then I will ask a bunch more questions and report back here. Bottom line, I am happy they are fixing it.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

Does that engine have a crankcase breather tube or valve assembly that runs up to the airbox? I would make sure they check that as well to make sure it isn't plugged.


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## Excitabletom (Jan 16, 2016)

Waiting on parts. Getting complete top end replaced. Once I have it in my truck, I will really ask what happened. Patrick Swazy said "be nice until it's time to stop being nice!"


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Excitabletom said:


> "be nice until it's time to stop being nice!"


That's the most important thing people forget when they're trying to get help.
Someone is much more likely to help you if you make them feel they are doing you a favor than if you're standing in their face threatening them. :2cents:


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## Excitabletom (Jan 16, 2016)

*** Final Report ***

I went to the Honda dealership and picked-up my repaired HS720 at no charge. All warranty. (though the dealership mentioned the claim is not yet settled, but they repaired it for me anyway at no cost.) Once I was all loaded, I asked "what was the root cause of the failure and how can I avoid this in the future?"

Repair shop manager said the motor must have sucked in snow through the air intake, which washed the oil from the cylinder walls and caused friction failure. The entire top end was rebuilt. The manager did say that the crank was fine and thus proved that the motor was never run without oil. ( I am validated and innocent!) 

They also showed me a soda pop bottle full of the oil they drained from my thrower. For approximately two hour old oil, it was jet black and even a little gray-ish, like there was some water in it. Has my thrower ever had "extreme" conditions? No, just a short driveway in Western Michigan / Grand Rapids. I have lived here 20 years and this is my only engine failure after 3 snowthrowers total. (Other two were sold running to update to newer, more horsepower. One is still a neighbors, the other used by my mother-in-law now.)

I have about 15 minutes on the rebuilt motor to test it. I cleared about an inch of snow, but I wanted to test it. All is fine. I do think the motor sounds a little different. A little smoother and with a lower engine tone. Maybe I'm crazy.

In the end, I sent a follow-up thank you e-mail to the shop manager and operations director. I must say Honda Village on Plainfield Ave in Grand Rapids was helpful. 

I wonder what really caused the failure...


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

Missing circlip on one end of the wristpin? Was the scoring localized?

EDIT: Alternative possibility: rust formed in the cylinder during the off season.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Excitabletom said:


> *** Final Report ***
> 
> I went to the Honda dealership and picked-up my repaired HS720 at no charge. All warranty. (though the dealership mentioned the claim is not yet settled, but they repaired it for me anyway at no cost.) Once I was all loaded, I asked "what was the root cause of the failure and how can I avoid this in the future?"
> 
> ...


Good to hear that it was repaired at no cost. I would use a good quality synthetic oil (I use Amsoil) and fog the engine during storage and store it indoors such as a weather tight shed or garage with outboard engine fogging in a spray can inside the cylinder and that Honda should last for decades.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Excitabletom said:


> *** Final Report ***
> 
> I went to the Honda dealership and picked-up my repaired HS720 at no charge. All warranty. (though the dealership mentioned the claim is not yet settled, but they repaired it for me anyway at no cost.) Once I was all loaded, I asked "what was the root cause of the failure and how can I avoid this in the future?"
> 
> ...


Eh, two hour old oil, should't look that much darker than new. Especially considering the age of the machine. Contaminated oil, will look milky, like a thinned out caramel or butterscotch sauce. 

That said, it's fixed, it's back home, and it did not cost you.


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## yarcraftman (Jan 30, 2014)

Put fogging oil in a snowblower? I have not heard of that before. Do a lot of you guys do this?


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