# Going back to a shovel since everything seems to be junk now.



## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

My great Troy-Bilt snow blower suffered a catastrophic failure about two weeks ago and new parts to fix it are not available. I am willing to shell out the big bucks for a pro model snow blower, but I just can't part with $2,300 when I read about how badly even the pro models have been cheapened. I am just going to have to shovel or plain just drive over the snow.

I might just have to save up until next winter and spend the $7,000 on a BCS two wheel tractor with the two stage blower. The blower bucket is built with 3/8" plate!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

You can get a good blower for wayyyy below 2300.00 …. just sayin …


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

reader2580 said:


> My great Troy-Bilt snow blower suffered a catastrophic failure about two weeks ago and new parts to fix it are not available. I am willing to shell out the big bucks for a pro model snow blower, but I just can't part with $2,300 when I read about how badly even the pro models have been cheapened. I am just going to have to shovel or plain just drive over the snow.
> 
> I might just have to save up until next winter and spend the $7,000 on a BCS two wheel tractor with the two stage blower. The blower bucket is built with 3/8" plate!


you can find a great used Ariens , Honda , Toro et al in the offseason for a lot less. This has been discussed here 2,356 times.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

Even the new shovels arent built like they used to be!


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

reader2580 said:


> My great Troy-Bilt snow blower suffered a catastrophic failure about two weeks ago and new parts to fix it are not available.


If the catastrophic failure was in the engine department, it's probably easily remedied with a new engine like a Harbor Freight Predator https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gasoline-engines.html or an LCT AX Snow Engine. https://lctusa.com/types/winter-engines/


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

orangputeh said:


> you can find a great used Ariens , Honda , Toro et al in the offseason for a lot less. This has been discussed here 2,356 times.


I don't want to buy used and get someone else's problems. I'm already pretty much a part time small engine mechanic fixing my two riding mowers. I don't want to become a full time small engine mechanic in addition to my regular full time job. I have been working on one riding mower since last spring and still not working. I fix one thing and then find another problem. I went to change the deck height and found the rear caster forks were rusted in place as previous owner hadn't greased. All said and done it was over a month and $400 in parts. Now, one of the hydraulic lift cylinders is bad and requires taking the entire mower apart to get to. 

Sure, the off season is generally the best time to buy anything used for price, but it also means less selection. Only the desperate sell a lawn mower right now as nobody will need one for four or five months. The market will be flooded with used mowers come about April 1st as everyone knows a sale will be much faster and probably for money at that time. I could wait until next summer to buy a used unit, but then I have no way to test and it doesn't help me clear my driveway this winter.

The more I read the more I find out about how bad the quality is on new units, even the pro units. I just read a seven page thread from 2016 about Ariens quality issues. The one poster talked about replacing or repairing many new LCT engines due to manufacturing issues. Another poster said a plastic part broke which then wrecked the auger belt on a reasonably new Ariens. I think I could count the plastic parts (Outside of controls and engine) on my Troy-Bilt on one hand.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

*Going back to a shovel since everything seems to be junk now. 
*
*How many blowers have you tried or read about that you can make such a broad statement? Can you also prove that statement? There are many good blowers out there for way less than you stated. WAY less.
*


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

tabora said:


> If the catastrophic failure was in the engine department, it's probably easily remedied with a new engine like a Harbor Freight Predator https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gasoline-engines.html or an LCT AX Snow Engine. https://lctusa.com/types/winter-engines/


The engine is about the best part of my Troy-Bilt. One of the auger supports broke which caused the auger to move around enough that the impeller shaft snapped off inside the gear case. Neither the entire gear case or just the input shaft are available to purchase that I can find. I even called a place that has a warehouse full of obsolete parts. I was able to get a different obsolete Troy-Bilt part from them recently.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

I paid $250 for my 1971 Ariens a decade ago.










the only "trouble" I have had with it was carb adjustments the first couple years..
but the main problem was me, because I didnt know how to adjust a carb yet. 
(It was running rough at times..but it was always running)
Once I learned about carbs, and dialed it in, its given no trouble at all..
No parts needed, no breaking down, it has never actually failed me.

Every October I do an annual oil change, old gas drain and replace, lube, grease and inspection, and always use ethanol-free gas with Seafoam..that's all it needs..

50 years old, and 10 years with me, still going strong.. no issues, and no plans to replace it.
So yeah.. $250 for a decade's worth of reliable service, and still going.
I dont know why we are talking about $2,700. 

Scot


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I got this machine given to me years ago, and put a new engine on it and used it for many years .. finally got around to a complete ground up restore because I wanted it looking as well as it runs … 

My point being, I am a fan of the older well made machines, and if a person can turn a wrench, they can have a machine in pristine condition, for really cheap, to last you another 50 years.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

I can turn a wrench pretty decent, but you won't find me doing much with a small engine other than maybe replacing the carb. I really don't want to spend my whole summer doing a complete overhaul on a snow blower. Sure, it looks like new when done, but it takes a lot of time. I have a bunch of plans to work on my converted bus over the summer instead of overhaul a snow blower. Your picture shows at least four snow blowers so you have backups if one breaks. I don't enough room to store all the power equipment I currently own let alone two or three snow blowers.

I was hoping to buy new so not to have to worry about my snow blower for at least ten years and have it last at least 20 years. The plastic bushings and other plastic parts that move are unlikely to make it to even 10 years before needing replacement if the part is even available at that point.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

reader2580 said:


> The engine is about the best part of my Troy-Bilt. One of the auger supports broke which caused the auger to move around enough that the impeller shaft snapped off inside the gear case. Neither the entire gear case or just the input shaft are available to purchase that I can find. I even called a place that has a warehouse full of obsolete parts. I was able to get a different obsolete Troy-Bilt part from them recently.


 Looks like that's one of the last Garden Way era machines... Here's a link to a Bolens gear case assembly from that era that might be a match: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bolens-621...:w6wAAOSw1X1dx16y:sc:USPSPriority!04074!US!-1
He says he has lots of parts from that era.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

tabora said:


> Looks like that's one of the last Garden Way era machines... Here's a link to a Bolens gear case assembly from that era that might be a match: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bolens-621...:w6wAAOSw1X1dx16y:sc:USPSPriority!04074!US!-1
> He says he has lots of parts from that era.


That is the 21" version, but I could potentially change the auger shafts. There is a 21" version of my Troy-Bilt for sale cheap locally that I thought about getting, but I don't know that I am into opening up gear cases and messing with all that. I didn't look for Bolens gear cases even though I know Troy-Bilt and Bolens used the same parts in that era.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

i bought old and fixed it up but its easier to fix a new cheap machine than it is to fix someones back. u can always buy another sb
strokes and heart attacks happen most when shovelling the white stuff


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

reader2580 said:


> The engine is about the best part of my Troy-Bilt. One of the auger supports broke which caused the auger to move around enough that the impeller shaft snapped off inside the gear case. Neither the entire gear case or just the input shaft are available to purchase that I can find. I even called a place that has a warehouse full of obsolete parts. I was able to get a different obsolete Troy-Bilt part from them recently.


Did you try Jack's small engines.


https://www.jackssmallengines.com/

Also eBay and Amazon often have parts where people part out machines


Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Maybe we should start a Shovel forum category!


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

rwh963 said:


> Maybe we should start a Shovel forum category!


Excellent idea. Maybe someone could answer why my blue polyethylene shovel works better than my yellow polyethylene shovel. Same brand, same hours and yes I did check the oil and belts.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> Maybe we should start a Shovel forum category!


users would be literally dying off


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

vinnycom said:


> users would be literally dying off


I think it could inspire a mini series..... And now back to "The Shovelers" Deidrea, have you seen Jimmy?" "Why no I have not seen him" Diedrea in a panicked voice, "OMG has anyone seen Jimmy!!!" Billy walks in, "Well we got 8-12" last night and I think he went out to shovel" Diedrea screams then faints... fade to commericial.


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## rod330 (Oct 9, 2015)

vinnycom said:


> strokes and heart attacks happen most when shovelling the white stuff


This is absolutely true. Every winter in NE Ohio there's a few cases of healthy folks who pass away shoveling snow.

Buy a properly refurbished older machine or a new, higher quality one from a reputable dealer. You'll have a warranty to cover any initial problems and it will last a very long time IF you do your part to properly maintain it.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

rwh963 said:


> Maybe we should start a Shovel forum category!


ya or a subforum for people who want to rant and really don't want or appreciate the help people are trying to give them.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

rod330 said:


> This is absolutely true. Every winter in NE Ohio there's a few cases of healthy folks who pass away shoveling snow.
> 
> Buy a properly refurbished older machine or a new, higher quality one from a reputable dealer. You'll have a warranty to cover any initial problems and it will last a very long time IF you do your part to properly maintain it.


now @rod330 ......that just makes too much darn sense.....shame on you.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i know you say you don't buy used but you should at least consider it. you can get some older snowblowers for about $100. yes you have to look them over to see what they need or might need but usually they are pretty solid. you could even look for a machine that needs an engine. old machine+new ohv engine and you should have a good strong throwing machine. i know a lot of people don't like old machines even if they work and will outlast most of the new crap. i know i have used a few old machines that have surprised the crap out of me with how good they work. older toro's have a nice spring loaded scraper bar which is nice.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

rwh963 said:


> Maybe we should start a Shovel forum category!


That sounds good, there are many different types of shovels on the market.

Read my signature.........I HATE SHOVELING SNOW ! :eeek:

I bought one of these last year, I only used it once but it sure works nice.
I use it on the front and rear porch, those you have to push and pickup the snow and toss it.
With the electric shovel it works like a mini snow blower.
Purrrrfect for me. 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Snow-Jo...VA1YMCh0UAAnREAQYAiABEgLw8vD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

Zavie said:


> Excellent idea. Maybe someone could answer why my blue polyethylene shovel works better than my yellow polyethylene shovel. Same brand, same hours and yes I did check the oil and belts.


thats an easy !!! you are using full synthetic in the blue one, and a synthetic blend in the other !:grin:


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

reader2580 said:


> I can turn a wrench pretty decent, but you won't find me doing much with a small engine other than maybe replacing the carb. I really don't want to spend my whole summer doing a complete overhaul on a snow blower. Sure, it looks like new when done, but it takes a lot of time. I have a bunch of plans to work on my converted bus over the summer instead of overhaul a snow blower. Your picture shows at least four snow blowers so you have backups if one breaks. I don't enough room to store all the power equipment I currently own let alone two or three snow blowers.
> 
> I was hoping to buy new so not to have to worry about my snow blower for at least ten years and have it last at least 20 years. The plastic bushings and other plastic parts that move are unlikely to make it to even 10 years before needing replacement if the part is even available at that point.


Well, you are inventing lots of great but essentially fictional reasons for not getting a used snowblower!  thats fine. If you dont want a used snowblower, you dont have to buy one.. but nothing you listed above is a requirement when buying a reliable older snowblower. I'll use my own example again:



> I paid $250 for my 1971 Ariens a decade ago.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I never "spent my whole summer doing a complete overhaul on a snow blower.", it didnt need anything.



reader2580 said:


> Sure, it looks like new when done, but it takes a lot of time.


I had no need to make it look like new, and not making it look like new took.. no time. 



reader2580 said:


> I have a bunch of plans to work on my converted bus over the summer instead of overhaul a snow blower


You would have plenty of time to work on the bus, because no one ever suggested you would need to overhaul a snowblower. Its not a requirement for getting an excellent and reliable and "ready to run" used snowblowet.



reader2580 said:


> I was hoping to buy new so not to have to worry about my snow blower for at least ten years and have it last at least 20 years.


This is easily achievable with plenty of new snowblowers. Start shopping at the $800 to $1,000 level with Ariens, Toro or Simplicity, and you will be all set.

Or start shopping at the $200 to $500 level with used Ariens, Toro, Simplicity or Honda, and you can also easily achieve that goal.



reader2580 said:


> The plastic bushings and other plastic parts that move are unlikely to make it to even 10 years before needing replacement if the part is even available at that point.


Only a concern with the low-end of the new snowblower market. Just ignore that level..problem solved.

Scot


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

reader2580 said:


> My great Troy-Bilt snow blower suffered a catastrophic failure about two weeks ago and new parts to fix it are not available. I am willing to shell out the big bucks for a pro model snow blower, but I just can't part with $2,300 when I read about how badly even the pro models have been cheapened. I am just going to have to shovel or plain just drive over the snow.
> 
> I might just have to save up until next winter and spend the $7,000 on a BCS two wheel tractor with the two stage blower. The blower bucket is built with 3/8" plate!


Might be worth looking to see if the part you need is also used in a different brand. For example my old Bolens parts availability faded into the sunset decades ago. Specifically, I was looking for parts for my differential on Ebay after trying all other known sources. NOTHING! Later I noticed that John Deere used the exact same differential. Think about it


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## rod330 (Oct 9, 2015)

Even my beloved Parmi "Lazy Boy" reminds me it's saving my heart


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

sscotsman said:


> Well, you are inventing lots of great but essentially fictional reasons for not getting a used snowblower!  thats fine. If you dont want a used snowblower, you dont have to buy one.. but nothing you listed above is a requirement when buying a reliable older snowblower. I'll use my own example again:


It was acerone who talked about buying used and doing a ground up restoration. Besides the time to do such a project I'm sure it would cost well more than a decent new Ariens by the time I was done. If I tackled such a project I would probably replace any part that was the least bit worn so my parts bill would end up pretty high and then I would want a new engine for another good chunk of change.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@rod330,

Nice machine .... You can take a piece of wood dowel, drill the center, slide it over the chute crank and put on a rod lock cap. 😊


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

*Sounds like your mind is made up...*

I've been pretty happy with the 



.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

rod330 said:


> This is absolutely true. Every winter in NE Ohio there's a few cases of healthy folks who pass away shoveling snow.
> 
> Buy a properly refurbished older machine or a new, higher quality one from a reputable dealer. You'll have a warranty to cover any initial problems and it will last a very long time IF you do your part to properly maintain it.


The problem is where do you find a so-called higher quality machine at a dealer? I went and looked at an Ariens Professional unit today. They start at $2,300, but the steel of the bucket isn't as thick as my current unit. My current unit has steel at least 25% thicker than the Ariens. The steel on mine is thick enough to be flat plate while Ariens puts ribs in the steel to strengthen it. I don't want my bucket to look like a crappy MTD in five years with the corners folded in.

I shoveled for a while today and remembered how much that sucks. I think I am just going to get a used unit, but it will probably take a few weeks to find one that meets my standards.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@reader,

A brand new predator, 99.00 ... Say a new friction disc, maybe some bushings, some paint, 50.00 tops, even new tires, 50.00 .... 200 and a solid, well built machine . Or you can spend much more and buy new ... Either way works, but I like the older ones .....😊


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

if you want a quality machine you would be better off finding a old machine and rebuilding it. in the off season it is usually even easy to find then cheap or free. there is even a couple locally that i have had my eye on that i would love to get my hands on but i really don't need anymore snowblowers. 
all these were free. only had to spend $130 replacing the motor on the ariens. all were mechanically solid. all older but they move snow just as good as most other snowblowers. 









another option would be to find another good bucket and bolting it to the front of your machine or a impeller assembly with the same size shaft as what you have and make it work with your machine.


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

reader2580 said:


> The problem is where do you find a so-called higher quality machine at a dealer? I went and looked at an Ariens Professional unit today. They start at $2,300, but the steel of the bucket isn't as thick as my current unit. My current unit has steel at least 25% thicker than the Ariens. The steel on mine is thick enough to be flat plate while Ariens puts ribs in the steel to strengthen it. I don't want my bucket to look like a crappy MTD in five years with the corners folded in.
> 
> 
> 
> I shoveled for a while today and remembered how much that sucks. I think I am just going to get a used unit, but it will probably take a few weeks to find one that meets my standards.


If you look you can find deals. I found this 924st for under $200 it needed a carburetor and a fuel system clean.









Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

I'm with you on this thought. I really appreciate the efforts of those who expend their energy resurrecting old neglected or otherwise broken down machines; returning them to service. 

Many of the old machines simply need a freshening up such carb cleaning, valve adjustment and/or new belt, bearings, bushings and a friction wheel. Certain old machines are so well built that they outlive their engine's useful service life and it's worthwhile to re-power the machine with a new engine.

A new paint job is icing on the cake but it does give one's self a certain pride of ownership; kind of like a reward for all the diligent restoration work. 



orangputeh said:


> ...a subforum for people who want to rant and really don't want or appreciate the help people are trying to give them.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

All for free, (including my fathers Yardman 7100) and brought back to life for just my time, or real cheap , … :


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

oneacer said:


> All for free, (including my fathers Yardman 7100) and brought back to life for just my time, or real cheap , … :


Six back ups...you are serious lol.
I am going to look for a used one to bring back to life so I will have a back up.
I bought new as I had nothing and didn't want any surprises and not be able to finish the driveway...300 feet long..then when you add in the apron in front of the garage and a place to turn around.A couple spots for the dogs to finish the digestive cycle .. it's alot of shoveling



Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

vinnycom said:


> strokes and heart attacks happen most when shovelling the white stuff


don't have to tell me about that all so true fact, i can attest to it's not being fun taking a ride to the hospital in a rig during a major snow storm


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

One thing people don’t seem to realize is rebuilding or repairing isn’t always about the money, myself I enjoy working on them as a hobby and if it doesn’t sell it’s ok, I only sell to get a few dollars to by other projects, Oneacer takes it to the next level and completely restores it and seems to NOT sell lol he does have some nice blowers.


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

Seems to me that Mr. 2850 is using one of these.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

If anyone is looking at buying a used machine, this video has some stuff to watch for: 





The last 2 Ariens machines I bought had seen some pretty heavy use, as it turned out. I didn't realize that at the time. So some bearings needed to be replaced, etc. But the current one has been a workhorse for the last 6 years, I think it's a 2000 model year. '01 at the latest. 

reader2580, I hope you can find a good solution. I sure wouldn't want to go back to shoveling  Parts availability can vary by brand. I've had MTD and Ariens. The older machines for each brand were from 1994. I didn't have issues with availability on either. 

Documentation availability can also make a difference. I've been able to download owner's manuals, parts diagrams, and service manuals for each of my Ariens machines, from their website. That's helped make things easier.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

oneacer said:


> All for free, (including my fathers Yardman 7100) and brought back to life for just my time, or real cheap , … :


Hey why never any love?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Never noticed or even gave it a thought ??


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

The best new snow blower I have looked at is the Ariens Professional line. (Still not as nice as my dead Troy-Bilt.) The problem is getting one. I literally called every Ariens dealer within 150 mile radius about a week ago and nobody has the $2299 Professional 28 in stock. One dealer has a Professional 28 EFI hydro for $2899 and another dealer has a 28 EFI hydro, a regular 32, and a 32 EFI hydro. Multiple dealers told me that Ariens has no more Professional models in the warehouse and no plans to make more this season. They don't expect to get more until next fall.

I found a Professional 28 in stock in Fargo, North Dakota, but that is a 500 mile round trip and would take most of the day to go get. I also don't want to be at the back of the line for repairs if needed at a local Ariens dealer. $2450 (including tax) is already a lot to pay and the extra $655 to get the 28 EFI hydro version really would put a dent in my bank account.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

reader2580 said:


> I can turn a wrench pretty decent, but you won't find me doing much with a small engine other than maybe replacing the carb. I really don't want to spend my whole summer doing a complete overhaul on a snow blower. Sure, it looks like new when done, but it takes a lot of time. I have a bunch of plans to work on my converted bus over the summer instead of overhaul a snow blower. Your picture shows at least four snow blowers so you have backups if one breaks. I don't enough room to store all the power equipment I currently own let alone two or three snow blowers.
> 
> I was hoping to buy new so not to have to worry about my snow blower for at least ten years and have it last at least 20 years. The plastic bushings and other plastic parts that move are unlikely to make it to even 10 years before needing replacement if the part is even available at that point.


Some of those plastic bushings are dirt cheap and very easy to replace.
Rust on a shaft is what is going to eat up the plastic.
You can have those axle bushings greased on the MTD variety in no time.
Once a year you are going to have the belly pan off anyway to lube the hex shaft ..the wheels off to grease the axles..so you are already there anyway.
Some have grease fittings for the auger shaft some dont you could add your own fittings.
You can find great deals on the MTD family blowers new.
I paid 404 bucks for mine still in the box 24 inch 2 stage Craftsman quick turn long chute...great tires.
Troybilt Craftsman Cub Cadet and other MTD varieties are plentiful at bargain prices just a year or two old..gummed up carbs being very common 300 bucks can get you a machine with one seasons use..order a carb for 20 bucks and you are done..The carbs are harder to access than most machines is why they end up for sale as bargain prices as they aren't running.
If you get alot of snow I would opt for something better..but if you need it for only three or four times a season it should last you a long time.



Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Clutch Cargo said:


> Seems to me that Mr. 2850 is using one of these.


Oh, painting with a broad brush? I wasn't figuring out what this meant.


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## rod330 (Oct 9, 2015)

I've always been intrigued by these....but certainly not enough to buy or use one.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I wonder how far you could throw with that contraption … intriguing indeed …


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Zavie said:


> Excellent idea. Maybe someone could answer why my blue polyethylene shovel works better than my yellow polyethylene shovel. Same brand, same hours and yes I did check the oil and belts.



The blue one is lighter smh Mr zav


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

I've done commercial snow removal for over 2 decades and have run exclusively the Ariens Professional line machines since 2005. My newest machine is a 2 year old Pro 32 and in my opinion is the best snowblower I've ever run. Very well built and performance is off the chart. The worries about the bucket durability is unwarranted. Ariens has used that same design for on the Pro line for around 20 years now. That 2005 machine I mentioned... still gets used every storm and the bucket has maintained perfect form. It'll never look like the curling MTD buckets.

I run my equipment hard and everything gets much more use than a typical homeowner. One more note on that 2005 machine I mentioned. During a 2013 blizzard, I personally run that machine for 26hrs over the course of 3 days using 13 gallons of gas. Proper maintenance goes a long way.

If you can find the Pro 28 your looking for, you will not be disappointed.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Shovel said:


> Some of those plastic bushings are dirt cheap and very easy to replace.
> Rust on a shaft is what is going to eat up the plastic.
> You can have those axle bushings greased on the MTD variety in no time.
> Once a year you are going to have the belly pan off anyway to lube the hex shaft ..the wheels off to grease the axles..so you are already there anyway.
> ...



Yeah.......plastic bushings/bearings, cheapies designed to fail causing owners to either repair or purchase new machines. Oilite maintenance free bearings designed in the 1930s by Chrysler would never wear out


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

foggysail said:


> Yeah.......plastic bushings/bearings, cheapies designed to fail causing owners to either repair or purchase new machines. Oilite maintenance free bearings designed in the 1930s by Chrysler would never wear out



Isn't that just a sintered bronze bearing?


What I did for small things... Got the biggest jar of pickles which is probably 1/2 gallon or so and chucked the pickles out and then poke a hole in the lid and use a vacuum pump. Put some oil of choice in the bottom of the jar and screw the lid on, then connect the hoses (I use the hand MityVac pump) and vacuum out the air in the jar and that will thoroughly draw the oil into the sintered bronze bearing. 



I also do the same when I get new pliers styled tools to draw the oil into the joint, much better than just spraying from the outside. It's a little ******* but you can see the air bubbles come out of the joints when pulling a vacuum and once you release the vacuum, the oil is pulled into the joint.


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## strtch5881 (Oct 6, 2018)

My Yardman (MTD) 1030 I bought new in '96. Other than normal maint., I've had to change all the bearings last year and replace the carburetor. The carb was actually wore out. Never needed a backup blower. Knock on wood.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

this topic got a lot of mileage about using a shovel.

good exercise.


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## penna stogey (Nov 25, 2019)

orangputeh said:


> this topic got a lot of mileage about using a shovel.
> 
> good exercise.


Old School method, effective and good cardio!!!


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

notabiker said:


> Isn't that just a sintered bronze bearing?
> 
> 
> What I did for small things... Got the biggest jar of pickles which is probably 1/2 gallon or so and chucked the pickles out and then poke a hole in the lid and use a vacuum pump. Put some oil of choice in the bottom of the jar and screw the lid on, then connect the hoses (I use the hand MityVac pump) and vacuum out the air in the jar and that will thoroughly draw the oil into the sintered bronze bearing.
> ...



Two things, first sintered bronze by itself is not a lubricant, it certainly is once impregnated with oil. Appears you make your own. Now second, dealing with impregnating. Years ago in my engineering days doing high voltage designs used in military radar, I learned the best way to impregnate is to first pull your vacuum and when all air is removed, then allow your oil to enter the vessel. You can immediately after just release the vacuum. This is very important in high voltage transformers. Your method is good, what I suggest though is better. With a high voltage transformer, the slightest void in windings (no oil) can result in a failure. .

EDIT: The reason for bringing up bearings in a snowblower forum where one has to resort to shoveling is to highlight one of the many snowblower failures that make a shoveling a solution for snow removal.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

JJG723 said:


> I've done commercial snow removal for over 2 decades and have run exclusively the Ariens Professional line machines since 2005. My newest machine is a 2 year old Pro 32 and in my opinion is the best snowblower I've ever run. Very well built and performance is off the chart. The worries about the bucket durability is unwarranted. Ariens has used that same design for on the Pro line for around 20 years now. That 2005 machine I mentioned... still gets used every storm and the bucket has maintained perfect form. It'll never look like the curling MTD buckets.
> 
> I run my equipment hard and everything gets much more use than a typical homeowner. One more note on that 2005 machine I mentioned. During a 2013 blizzard, I personally run that machine for 26hrs over the course of 3 days using 13 gallons of gas. Proper maintenance goes a long way.
> 
> If you can find the Pro 28 your looking for, you will not be disappointed.



My 28 Pro is now entering its second season. You mentioned performance longevity expectations AND I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT! Do you know if these machine use plastic bearings in the drive mechanics?


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

foggysail said:


> Two things, first sintered bronze by itself is not a lubricant, it certainly is once impregnated with oil. Appears you make your own. Now second, dealing with impregnating. Years ago in my engineering days doing high voltage designs used in military radar, I learned the best way to impregnate is to first pull your vacuum and when all air is removed, then allow your oil to enter the vessel. You can immediately after just release the vacuum. This is very important in high voltage transformers. Your method is good, what I suggest though is better. With a high voltage transformer, the slightest void in windings (no oil) can result in a failure. .
> 
> EDIT: The reason for bringing up bearings in a snowblower forum where one has to resort to shoveling is to highlight one of the many snowblower failures that make a shoveling a solution for snow removal.



Yea, mine is decidedly low tech  I could probably rig up a valve through the lid and run a tube to the bottom of the jar to let the vacuum pull in the oil as well as releasing pressure. I can't pull a full vacuum with the hand pump either though, only like 15-18 inch of Hg before my hands get tired.


Also if we don't have enough snow to justify blowing the whole driveway, I'll use my push shovel and move everything 15 feet down the driveway (probably only 25' long) and/or push it down and towards the sides and then pull the blower out to chuck it into the yard. Get a little shoveling exercise and I can clean around vehicles and garage doors easier and safer with a shovel vs the blower.



I keep a big plastic "grain shovel" type of shovel in the bed of the truck for when I go four wheeling up into the mountains in the winter as well as a small dirt shovel in the cab year round too! 





(hit my shovel quotient to qualify posting in this thread)


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

foggysail said:


> My 28 Pro is now entering its second season. You mentioned performance longevity expectations AND I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT! Do you know if these machine use plastic bearings in the drive mechanics?


Foggy, there are no plastic parts. The Platinum and down models have some plastic but not the Professional line. Definitely built to last.

This is the 3rd winter for my newest machine I mentioned before, a Pro 32. My fleet also includes a 2015 Pro 32 and a 2014 Pro 28. All my machines are friction disc drives. Before every season I do a complete and proper service to them. Not a single component has failed or broke on any of those three machines. I have yet to replace a single part. Including still running the original belts.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Still going strong since 1998


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

foggysail said:


> My 28 Pro is now entering its second season. You mentioned performance longevity expectations AND I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT! Do you know if these machine use plastic bearings in the drive mechanics?


Probably gold  



Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

strtch5881 said:


> My Yardman (MTD) 1030 I bought new in '96. Other than normal maint., I've had to change all the bearings last year and replace the carburetor. The carb was actually wore out. Never needed a backup blower. Knock on wood.


Did it have the bronze or plastic bushings?

Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

JJG—— GREAT INFORMATION. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

And mine also has the friction disk drive. I considered a hydro and thought of all the things that use friction disk ranging from lawn tractor and snowblowers with demonstrated reliability. I thought my old Bolens 1032 was the cats meow.......it was not! I gave up counting all the hours I spent on it to keep it functioning. So I am looking ahead to good performance from this machine. This I do know, if it ever becomes a maintenance nightmare as was my Bolens, I will not hesitate to replace it with a new machine.


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## johnwick (Dec 16, 2019)

reader2580 said:


> The best new snow blower I have looked at is the Ariens Professional line. (Still not as nice as my dead Troy-Bilt.) The problem is getting one. I literally called every Ariens dealer within 150 mile radius about a week ago and nobody has the $2299 Professional 28 in stock. One dealer has a Professional 28 EFI hydro for $2899 and another dealer has a 28 EFI hydro, a regular 32, and a 32 EFI hydro. Multiple dealers told me that Ariens has no more Professional models in the warehouse and no plans to make more this season. They don't expect to get more until next fall.
> 
> 
> 
> I found a Professional 28 in stock in Fargo, North Dakota, but that is a 500 mile round trip and would take most of the day to go get. I also don't want to be at the back of the line for repairs if needed at a local Ariens dealer. $2450 (including tax) is already a lot to pay and the extra $655 to get the 28 EFI hydro version really would put a dent in my bank account.




Snow Blowers At Jacks has 3 of this exact model in stock now. Free shipping and it’ll be to your door in about a week. I bought one from them a couple weeks ago and didn’t even have to pay sales tax for my state.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

johnwick said:


> Snow Blowers At Jacks has 3 of this exact model in stock now. Free shipping and it’ll be to your door in about a week. I bought one from them a couple weeks ago and didn’t even have to pay sales tax for my state.


I saw that Jacks is selling them for $2,599 on Amazon so I didn't look further into it. It would certainly be a lot easier than a 500 mile round trip. Jacks does charge tax in my state. Any sort of freight shipping is going to be slow right now with the holidays.

I am still trying to see if I can resurrect my Troy-Bilt. I am going to go take the gear case apart right now.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Good luck! I bought a used MTD with a non-functioning auger gearbox. Took it apart, and found it was just a sheared Woodruff key, holding the brass gear to the steel shaft. $1 later and I was back in business! Hopefully it's something that's fixable for cheap.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

RedOctobyr said:


> Good luck! I bought a used MTD with a non-functioning auger gearbox. Took it apart, and found it was just a sheared Woodruff key, holding the brass gear to the steel shaft. $1 later and I was back in business! Hopefully it's something that's fixable for cheap.


No, not that easy. The impeller shaft snapped off just behind the worm gear inside the case. I need to find another impeller shaft which is NLA.

No, the gear case is not locked up. One of the auger supports broke putting pressure on the gear case and snapping the shaft.


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

Pretty interesting premise for the thread. My Troy Built is the best but it is hopelessly broken... Interspersed with pictures of 50 year old machines still doing the job. I make money in the winter doing snow removal. I have ~20 customers and use the blower on half a dozen of them regularly. I bought a nice used 10 yr old Ariens mid range model 1027le. I picked it up in mint condition for $400, haven't had to do a thing to it and in the last two months it has paid for itself almost twice. Almost nobody needs a $2500 professional blower. 

Throw away that old junk and update your machine. Doesn't have to be new or top of the line to work or last. Just get a 28 sho and call it a day for $1600. Properly cared for it should last your lifetime, or at least 30 more years.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

I'm surprised nobody has suggested this option if you're not interested in fixing up an older machine: let someone else fix it up for you!

There are a number of people on this forum who take cheap but solid older machines, bring them up to near-new condition (mechanically - not so sure about cosmetically but cosmetics don't get the snow off your driveway), and sell them for what I bet are pretty reasonable prices.

If one of those members is near you, PM them and see what they have. If not, ask around local outdoor power equipment shops (mom-and-pop places, not Home Depot). Many of them fix up and resell trade-in machines, or might know somebody who does.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

Brent Holm said:


> Pretty interesting premise for the thread. My Troy Built is the best but it is hopelessly broken... Interspersed with pictures of 50 year old machines still doing the job. I make money in the winter doing snow removal. I have ~20 customers and use the blower on half a dozen of them regularly. I bought a nice used 10 yr old Ariens mid range model 1027le. I picked it up in mint condition for $400, haven't had to do a thing to it and in the last two months it has paid for itself almost twice. Almost nobody needs a $2500 professional blower.


If I going to go with used I might as well stick with the used machine already in my garage. The part(s) I need don't seem to be available new, but it turns out there are used parts out there that should work. The engine still runs like brand new. It starts first pull every time.

About three years ago my Troy-Bilt had a relatively minor issue that I couldn't fix. Shear pin was rusted stuck in auger shaft. I wasn't sure it was worth spending money on the unit and it was a three week wait to get it fixed. I went to the hardware store I bought the Troy-Bilt at to look at a new unit. I talked to the owner and when he heard what I wanted to replace he said to spend up to $500 on repairs as mine is better than just about any current unit made. He said the Simplicity Pro snow blowers was the only thing he had that is similar in quality to my Troy-Bilt. I got mine fixed after hearing that.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Rust welded auger shafts is pretty common, as most people either are unaware of that maintenance area, or just don't bother, or both.

It is a time consuming procedure, but I have not come across one yet that I could not free up, although my Craftsman freebie, the one given to me because they had allowed the auger to become rust welded, which took out the gear box worm drive, sure did put me through the test of endurance for sure.

If your engine is as good as you say, And when running, it is a good machine, I would go for the repairs, provided you are doing the work. Sometimes paying a repair shop for their labor, as well as parts, makes it maybe not such a viable option money wise?


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

ELaw said:


> I'm surprised nobody has suggested this option if you're not interested in fixing up an older machine: let someone else fix it up for you!
> 
> There are a number of people on this forum who take cheap but solid older machines, bring them up to near-new condition (mechanically - not so sure about cosmetically but cosmetics don't get the snow off your driveway), and sell them for what I bet are pretty reasonable prices.
> 
> If one of those members is near you, PM them and see what they have. If not, ask around local outdoor power equipment shops (mom-and-pop places, not Home Depot). Many of them fix up and resell trade-in machines, or might know somebody who does.


There comes a time when the ‘’fix it’’ avenue just gets to be too many fixits especially when you have to fix the same things more than once. And then there is the reliability issue. My experience that finally made my mind up for a new machine was when i had to drain the oil & fuel (or have it all over my garage floor) , tip the machine upside down so I could repair a broken wheel shaft that broke that morning. All this had to be done in my cold garage before I could finish in the freezing cold clearing the snow from my driveway. ENOUGH! I want reliability and am willing to pay for it.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

Oh I hear you there! I absolutely hate doing repetitive work.

But the question is which will be more reliable over "x" number of years: a brand-new cost-engineered-to-death machine, or an old one that's been properly refurbished?

I'm not saying I for 100% sure know the answer to that question... nobody can until the current crop of machines is 30-40-50 years old. But my personal feeling is that the older machines were designed to last a lot longer.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

cars arent made they way they used to be, all plastic components, thin sheet metal and everything controlled by computers....hence going back to a horse and carriage:surprise:


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

One can get a gas syphon real cheap. Not necessary to drain oil normally in the service position.

Even a new machine can break, thus requiring a "fix" or repair to get it back running.

I am fortunate enough to have many machines, but even if I did not, I would still, in my opinion, prefer the older built units, as again in my opinion, they are better built, mine were all free, easy to operate, and pretty straight forward to repair. 

But I have the means and the capability to do the repairs and maintenance myself, which many people do not.

The key to this , or any machine, is to keep it well maintained and perform any repairs in the off season. Although it is no guarantee, it will certainly keep it running smoothly when called upon to perform. Unfortunately, there are many that don't have the time, or just don't care enough to keep up on this stuff, and just buy a new one. That is how I wind up with my free quality machines ..  .. so no complaints here …


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

vinnycom said:


> cars arent made they way they used to be, all plastic components, thin sheet metal and everything controlled by computers....hence going back to a horse and carriage:surprise:


Cars last longer than ever right now. I don't think you can say the same for snow blowers when there seems to be a race to the bottom to see who can cheapen them the most. My parent's 1977 Ford LTD II blew the engine at 85,000 miles. My father put in a junkyard engine and drove the car 20,000 more miles before it started cutting out on the highway and he gave it to a charity. Today, 105,000 miles is just broken in on most cars.


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

reader2580 said:


> If I going to go with used I might as well stick with the used machine already in my garage. The part(s) I need don't seem to be available new, but it turns out there are used parts out there that should work. The engine still runs like brand new. It starts first pull every time.
> 
> About three years ago my Troy-Bilt had a relatively minor issue that I couldn't fix. Shear pin was rusted stuck in auger shaft. I wasn't sure it was worth spending money on the unit and it was a three week wait to get it fixed. I went to the hardware store I bought the Troy-Bilt at to look at a new unit. I talked to the owner and when he heard what I wanted to replace he said to spend up to $500 on repairs as mine is better than just about any current unit made. He said the Simplicity Pro snow blowers was the only thing he had that is similar in quality to my Troy-Bilt. I got mine fixed after hearing that.



I bet the hardware store would make a killing on $500 in repairs! No wonder he suggested you keep it. He would probably only make $100 selling you a new one. After you heard what you wanted to hear you now want to source used parts for that old machine because some guy at the hardware store told you it was a golden elephant? Good Luck with your plan. 

I do not believe for a second that the oldies were all better than the new ones. The new Ariens line comes with double pulley drive, cast iron gear boxes all steel construction and somehow you have convinced yourself the old Troy Built is better and the way to go. There is NO WAY your old machine is going to outperform or outlast a new machine like the 28 sho. You can tell yourself that lie all day long but it wont make it true...

As for buying used... I found TONs of machines hardly used for half or less of new cost. Doesn't mean they will break on you if you choose wisely...


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

reader2580 said:


> No, not that easy. The impeller shaft snapped off just behind the worm gear inside the case. I need to find another impeller shaft which is NLA.
> 
> No, the gear case is not locked up. One of the auger supports broke putting pressure on the gear case and snapping the shaft.


It sounds like something was In a bind and the inertia of the moving parts twisted it off
Did the sudden stop break the support or did or was the support being broken responsible for causing the bind.
That gear box while spinning freely now may bind under load.
If that large of a shaft has been twisted off I would go inside and take a look..there is a chance something else is damaged


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

reader2580 said:


> If I going to go with used I might as well stick with the used machine already in my garage. The part(s) I need don't seem to be available new, but it turns out there are used parts out there that should work. The engine still runs like brand new. It starts first pull every time.
> 
> About three years ago my Troy-Bilt had a relatively minor issue that I couldn't fix. Shear pin was rusted stuck in auger shaft. I wasn't sure it was worth spending money on the unit and it was a three week wait to get it fixed. I went to the hardware store I bought the Troy-Bilt at to look at a new unit. I talked to the owner and when he heard what I wanted to replace he said to spend up to $500 on repairs as mine is better than just about any current unit made. He said the Simplicity Pro snow blowers was the only thing he had that is similar in quality to my Troy-Bilt. I got mine fixed after hearing that.


I would take this time to Google up other parts as well to make sure other parts are available in the future.
I understand wanting to repair your existing machine. Especially if it has been good to you before this major event...you know what you have and don't have to take the risk with a purchasing a used machine.
Right now the machine is useless and these parts may cost you through the teeth...so be it.. if it costs say four hundred bucks to fix.. Would you pay four hundred bucks for the machine in working order? Absolutely as you know it's history .
I once spent a thousand bucks for a transmission to put in a car with 195 thousand miles.
The car was useless as it sit.
I said to myself would I pay a grand for that car if it had a good transmission.. absolutely..I loved that car..I drove that car an additional 135 thousand miles before getting rid of it.. Developed an intake leak..one of the radiator fan Motors connections was bad..tires were getting bald.. close to brakes and rotors again.. Someone had backed into a door few months prior..A van caught my eye one day.. Took it for a spin... Loved it... Pulled the trigger then sold the car.





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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

Shovel said:


> It sounds like something was In a bind and the inertia of the moving parts twisted it off
> Did the sudden stop break the support or did or was the support being broken responsible for causing the bind.
> That gear box while spinning freely now may bind under load.
> If that large of a shaft has been twisted off I would go inside and take a look..there is a chance something else is damaged


I opened up the gear case last night and everything seems okay. I didn't get the remains of the impeller shaft out yet.


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

reader2580 said:


> No, not that easy. The impeller shaft snapped off just behind the worm gear inside the case. I need to find another impeller shaft which is NLA.
> 
> No, the gear case is not locked up. One of the auger supports broke putting pressure on the gear case and snapping the shaft.



One reason when I look at snowblowers I pretty much ignore any blower that doesn't have a gearcase to bucket brace of some kind.


Anyway, I was a machinist in a past life and if you have a machine shop nearby you could have them stub a short section of metal to the end of the shaft and weld it on and mill another keyway in it (if it's a keyway with gear system) or if there's an inch before the gear area there would be enough room to weld it back on. That is all depending on the machine shop too. The one I worked at would make screws for plastic injection machines so we regularly cut worn tips off and stubbed new pieces of metal on and re machined it. We did anything from 1/2" dia by 1 foot long ones to 8" dia and 13' long ones and we occasionally got a farmer in with some piece of equipment that was bent or broke and we'd take a break from normal operations to fix up his work for a nominal fee and send him on his way asap.




Post up a picture of the shaft and the broken off part when you get a chance.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

Well I was on the side of... should I fix it up or should I say... modify an older machine? Back about ten year ago or so, I did not want to do anything to our 1971 Ariens. But after using it by myself for the last... 33 years, I finally said... some improvements have to get done or it might just be time for a new machine.

The areas that my machine needed improvements to were... a better turning style design and routing for the turning bar... bending over to turn the chute side to side was just a royal pain... so put it very bluntly. It was greatly improved by bringing the handle up to the handle bars where it keeps me standing up straight instead of always bending over all the time. 

And that worm gear... :wacko: what a horrible design. I incorporated the older sprocket type design on to my machine. This was the second great modification. Instead of somewhere around 16 or so turns from that worm gear... the sprocket design gets in done in 3 3/4 turns.

Then I improved the traction with the Carlisle X-Trac tires. Even with having the differential on my machine, I never used it. Just by adding the X-Trac, it made it a better machine... especially in the apron area. 

Then I started fooling with the chute. The person(s) who mentioned years ago about adding a taller chute does nothing... well... :laugh: you could not be any further from the truth. I experimented with three different sized chutes on my machine and they all put their different spin on the machine... from a shorter... to a taller... to a further type throw. 

I did have to add two baffles to the tall chute. At first the snow would only blow back when turned to the right, but then that caused some snow to get thrown back when turned left so I had to add a baffle to the left side. I guess this happens because... the lower half of this chute has less depth to it than the other chutes that I have tried. Now the snow blows straight out to the front of the chute. 

Now as for the guys who say their original older Ariens like mine does a great job and runs like new... I find that very hard to believe. But it might be true if you have a postage stamp size driveway or a property that has no obstructions... but as for my property, I have just about everything you couldn't ask for obstructions. With those old Tecumsehs. I know from day one... that ours never was able to handle deep snow... and I am talking anywhere after the 8" mark or over. It could never attack the snow and throw it. I could never grab a full bucket. I had to always stop the wheels so that it could get rid of what it took in and keep repeating so the snow would not build up in front of the bucket. Even after learning to take 1/2 to 3/4 width bucket swipes. It was a really pain and annoyance. The repower of the Briggs And Stratton 214m214 342cc solved that problem... 10 times over. The price of that engine was well... worth it and no where near the cost of a new machine. There is absolutely no comparison between the two engines. I also switched over to a 1/2" belt pulley and got rid of the 3/8" belt pulley. I never wanted to fool with changing the diameter size of the pulley to where it would increase the MPH.

I never bothered to fool with a impeller kit either. I was just shy of the 40' range with what I did to my machine. And with some of the videos that I have seen with the impeller kits, it actually looked like mine throws somewhat further. But my clearence in my impeller area is only about 1/8"-3/16". And if you have read any of my posts about the impeller kits... I am totally happy with waxing that exit hole area and everything else around that area. 

I never needed to add a light because of my surroundings being very lit when needed. Hand warmers might be nice, but I have gotten away with out them for 33 plus years. 

So to bottom line this, everything I did to my machine improved my machine to where it helped me very much. But is it everything I like and need... unfortunately not. But there is only so much that you can do. 

If I had an easy property to clear everything that I did for improvements would be enough. 

So... now that I bought the 2015 Ariens Pro 28 back in August, I am a little bit interested to see how it will tackle and handle my needs. I am expecting to have a better throwing distance where I hope to reach areas where I need to put the snow. I am.. not how ever looking forward to this challenge with the auto turn. I have read so... much negative on it. But going from a 24" X 20 1/2" bucket size to a 28" X 23 1/2" bucket size, should improve on time with moving more snow.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

reader2580 said:


> "Going back to a shovel since everything seems to be junk now." " My great Troy-Bilt snow blower suffered a catastrophic failure about two weeks ago and new parts to fix it are not available."


Have you looked at shovels lately ??? . . . I can't seem to find a good one of those either :grin:


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

Kielbasa said:


> Well I was on the side of... should I fix it up or should I say... modify an older machine? Back about ten year ago or so, I did not want to do anything to our 1971 Ariens. But after using it by myself for the last... 33 years, I finally said... some improvements have to get done or it might just be time for a new machine.
> 
> The areas that my machine needed improvements to were... a better turning style design and routing for the turning bar... bending over to turn the chute side to side was just a royal pain... so put it very bluntly. It was greatly improved by bringing the handle up to the handle bars where it keeps me standing up straight instead of always bending over all the time.
> 
> ...


All very good points..newer stuff does have its advantages..one also being many are lighter as well.
We don't get alot of snow here..I may go an entire season not needing to move snow..but we do get clobbered every so often.
I have about 3500 square feet to do..alot yes..but don't have to do it often..it's just to much to do by hand.
So I only have to blow snow a couple three hours a year..that's it..so I can live without the luxury features.
I picked an (gasp)MTD based model as parts are very cheap and it's very easy to work on..in 15 years it will have about 40 hours on it....I paid 400 bucks new in box..so if it konks in 15 years I paid 10 bucks an hour to own it.. it will do alot of (shoveling) per hour..not an ariens by any means ...but is worth every bit of ten bucks an hour to me.
In fifteen years it will be 'old steel' and I may have to keep it .. probably be all electric by then or all fuel injected tiny engines with plastic buckets.. throwing distance will probably be govt regulated as well.



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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

ELaw said:


> Oh I hear you there! I absolutely hate doing repetitive work.
> 
> But the question is which will be more reliable over "x" number of years: a brand-new cost-engineered-to-death machine, or an old one that's been properly refurbished?
> 
> I'm not saying I for 100% sure know the answer to that question... nobody can until the current crop of machines is 30-40-50 years old. But my personal feeling is that the older machines were designed to last a lot longer.


Personally, I move up a a notch with a Pro. Time will tell if “”Pro’’ means anything!


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

foggysail said:


> Oilite maintenance free bearings designed in the 1930s by Chrysler would never wear out


I just replaced some of those in my Simplicity 828 this year.They certainly wear better than plastic,but they do wear like any other bearing.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

depends on what is used for bearings. There are bearings and then there are bearings.


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## dcinma (Dec 13, 2017)

nwcove said:


> Even the new shovels arent built like they used to be!


This is true.
And a crappy snow blower is still better than a good shovel. LOL.

The only thing a snoblo can't do is stairs.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

tpenfield said:


> Have you looked at shovels lately ??? . . . I can't seem to find a good one of those either :grin:


Heh, I wanted another plastic-bladed snow shovel (don't want a metal strip, to avoid damaging wood). I have a Garant (Canadian) plastic shovel that's been great, it's probably approaching 10 years old. 

I checked out what Home Depot had. I found 1 all-plastic shovel, $15, but the ground-contact edge was warped very badly on all of them. It would only touch the ground at either side of the shovel, and the whole middle portion would be up in the air. 

Ugh. I'll have to find other options.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

dcinma said:


> This is true.
> And a crappy snow blower is still better than a good shovel. LOL.


+1




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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I am just like you Red, I have even taken off that metal strip on the edge, just to have a pure plastic shovel cutting edge. That freaking metal edge is no good on wood.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

dcinma said:


> The only thing a snoblo can't do is stairs.


 This thing can, though:


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## ou2mame (Dec 23, 2019)

The snow's not going to shovel itself... It's not epstein. And I don't know about you, but I'm not going to shovel it! I refuse to buy a new machine because of how cheap they are now, and how expensive a decent blower is so I just buy used ones during the summer and clean the carbs and sell them for 3-500 bucks in the winter. That affords me many snowblowers. I have 9 perfectly running right now lol.. I've come across some really nice blowers that the owners just didn't care to put any time or money into and just wanted it gone. What I'm saying is, there's no reason to shovel snow. And if your motor runs great, just buy some used parts and get her moving again or buy a good used one.


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## Lunta (Dec 14, 2017)

Shovel said:


> I once spent a thousand bucks for a transmission to put in a car with 195 thousand miles.
> The car was useless as it sit.
> I said to myself would I pay a grand for that car if it had a good transmission.. absolutely..


Sensible logic :smile2:


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Well you see these fairly often in great shape. Mines 98 and looks no worse than 5 years old and had one failure of the petcock/float bowl setup. Last check the belts were good and like new.


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## jgp1955 (Dec 7, 2019)

*id rather shovel snow*

I read with interest the replies to readers2580 situation .The new stuff just doesn't have the feel of the old machines I picked up a small 70s ariens 4/20 blower 2 summers ago for 60 dollars Only changed oil and plug has almost bald hard rubber tires but it works. Just picked up a mid 80s snapper 4422 machine delivered for $200 changed oil and new plug.Both are clean no rust and they do work.Yes they are small machines but if i can get a few seasons out of them who cares. A lot easier to absorb $200 then $2000.Also i think reader2580 is a pretty good mechanic on small engines it might not be a bad way to go


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

I decided to buy a Toro commercial 28" snow blower. I went with the Toro instead of Ariens because I could get a Toro locally and Ariens is sold out everywhere except the more expensive EFI model. The dealer I went to is also open evenings and weekends so easier to get parts or service if necessary. I really don't like how Toro uses zip ties to attach the cables to the back of the handle, but it works and doesn't affect the usability or longevity of the unit. It just looks cheap.

I still plan to fix my Troy-Bilt as a backup if possible. It will be about two weeks before I can get the impeller shaft welded and machined due to the holidays. Once that is done then I need to order the parts required to put the gear case back together. No point in ordering parts until I have an impeller shaft.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@jgp,

That Ariens can be converted to the pneumatic X-Trac tires very easily.

@ reader,

If you don't like the zip ties, you can go to any bike store or online and get some cable clamps such as these:

https://www.ombwarehouse.com/10-7-8-throttle-brake-cable-clamps.html


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

oneacer said:


> If you don't like the zip ties, you can go to any bike store or online and get some cable clamps such as these:
> 
> https://www.ombwarehouse.com/10-7-8-throttle-brake-cable-clamps.html


The handles are rectangular so no go on those clamps. I don't dislike cable ties enough to replace them. I just think they look cheap and a $2,300 snow blower should have real cable clamps.

I am a decent power equipment mechanic, but I don't work on stuff that requires specialized tools or high tolerances. You'll probably never find me opening up a engine. I replaced the oil cooler and did other external oil leak repairs on my Detroit Series 60 engine, but it took me most of a summer. A mechanic probably would have had it done in a day in a proper shop with the right tools and experience. One can find a service manual to rebuild just about any engine, but the manual doesn't tell you all the little tricks a good mechanic knows. Sometimes those little tricks are the difference between a good rebuild and one that destroys the engine in short order.


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## minnesotaman82 (Sep 19, 2017)

reader2580 said:


> I decided to buy a Toro commercial 28" snow blower. I went with the Toro instead of Ariens because I could get a Toro locally and Ariens is sold out everywhere except the more expensive EFI model. The dealer I went to is also open evenings and weekends so easier to get parts or service if necessary. I really don't like how Toro uses zip ties to attach the cables to the back of the handle, but it works and doesn't affect the usability or longevity of the unit. It just looks cheap.
> 
> I still plan to fix my Troy-Bilt as a backup if possible. It will be about two weeks before I can get the impeller shaft welded and machined due to the holidays. Once that is done then I need to order the parts required to put the gear case back together. No point in ordering parts until I have an impeller shaft.


Congrats on the new Toro commercial 28". I think you'll like it. I agree the new snowblowers aren't made as heavy duty as the old tanks, but I've owned old snowblowers and I've owned brand new. The new blowers are pretty reliable and easy to use. I've had NO problems with my new Toro 826 OAE. My brother-in-law has an Ariens Deluxe 28" and he loves it as well. I've used it many times and I think it's very capable. The metal may be thinner, but they're quieter, "generally" easier to use and I think the build quality is pretty darn good. People forget that the old machines had issues when they came off the line too. But those problem machines were sorted out or taken to the scrap yard, and now most of the used market is filled with old machines that have stood the test of time.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

I picked up my new Toro Commercial 28 today and used it to clear the 1/3 of my driveway that had not been cleared since it snowed two weeks ago. The performance was awesome. People aren't kidding that the new blowers will blow snow like crazy.

It may not last as long as my Troy-Bilt, but it way outperforms my Troy-Bilt.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

tabora said:


> This thing can, though:


I saw this on QVC yesterday. 28 minutes of work time and will throw 27'. So... maybe for someone in a condo that wants to get their areas cleaned right outside of their doors... this might be a great product...


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

I agree with you on how you have looked at the money area. I figured out with what my dad paid for our machine back in 1971 and how it has served us... it owes us absolutely nothing. But for the way he took care of it... that is why I decided to make modifications to it. If I figured correctly, $471.00 divided by 40 years (before the repower) = $11.77 a year. What a deal. Boy did we get ripped off... :icon_smile_big:

Adding the Briggs and all of the other parts that I bought... plus all of my time where you could never total up that labor... was all worth it. 

And where you mention about how much it snow you get where you are, we maybe see a big blizzard every... so many years and that blizzard of February, 2015, the 1971 handled it very well. So if the 28 Pro really doesn't show me a lot more than the 1971... I will probably sell it. Because someday I hope to have a property where I will not need a Pro 28 and I will use the 1971. With it having a rebuilt gear box and a new drive disc... I think I would probably be all set for the rest of my lifetime. 



Shovel said:


> All very good points..newer stuff does have its advantages..one also being many are lighter as well.
> We don't get alot of snow here..I may go an entire season not needing to move snow..but we do get clobbered every so often.
> I have about 3500 square feet to do..alot yes..but don't have to do it often..it's just to much to do by hand.
> So I only have to blow snow a couple three hours a year..that's it..so I can live without the luxury features.
> ...


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

Kielbasa said:


> I agree with you on how you have looked at the money area. I figured out with what my dad paid for our machine back in 1971 and how it has served us... it owes us absolutely nothing. But for the way he took care of it... that is why I decided to make modifications to it. If I figured correctly, $471.00 divided by 40 years (before the repower) = $11.77 a year. What a deal. Boy did we get ripped off... :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Adding the Briggs and all of the other parts that I bought... plus all of my time where you could never total up that labor... was all worth it.
> 
> And where you mention about how much it snow you get where you are, we maybe see a big blizzard every... so many years and that blizzard of February, 2015, the 1971 handled it very well. So if the 28 Pro really doesn't show me a lot more than the 1971... I will probably sell it. Because someday I hope to have a property where I will not need a Pro 28 and I will use the 1971. With it having a rebuilt gear box and a new drive disc... I think I would probably be all set for the rest of my lifetime.


Always a bargain in the long haul .. Just a slow return of investment type of thing.
If you run that 71 another 20 years which you probably can you will admire it even more. It will strike up a conversation when people see it making it more valuable to you as well.
I yet to find an old machine.. Snowblowers are not popular here..Everyone plows.. I personally don't know anyone here with a two stage.
I see ads where people have them for sale but it seems like they are 80 or 100 miles away. I have been seeing them at the big box stores recently though so they may catch on here soon. We don't get alot of snow per year but do on occasion get clobbered clobber.. I had four foot drifts one year that extended about 100 feet up the driveway.. I was trapped for a while.
If I had a blower then I could have went out in the storm and make a single pass so wouldn't have wrestle on a first pass after the storm.My neighbor dug me out with a loader ... Banks were pretty tall when he was finished... Naturally that stuff melts back on the drive later which is what got me to looking into blowers..So I can get rid of the snow... Make clearings for the dogs and they aren't in mud when it starts to melt

Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Better yet figure out what the cost per snowfall was. 50 cents? I forget what we paid for the Yamaha for sure, $1900 sticks in my mind, 22 years and showing no sign of quitting. 



Maybe $3 a snowfall?


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

Okay, I am going to admit something I never mentioned before. I actually now have three snow blowers. A Loftness 48" for my Groundsmaster riding mower, my broken Troy-Bilt 24" walk behind, and my new Toro Commercial 28. My Groundsmaster riding mower needs repair for a second winter now. The Loftness works great, but not the Groundsmaster unit it attaches to. I get a heck of a deal on the Loftness as the unit had been in the dealer's warehouse for more than a decade. Loftness never sold more than a dozen or two.

I have had enough issues with the Groundsmaster that I want to always have a decent walk behind as a backup. If/when the Groundsmaster is fixed I'll probably use the Toro for the half of my driveway that is paved and the Loftness for the gravel portion.

The Groundsmaster currently has a hydraulic cylinder problem. I need to pull the fuel tank and the wheel to get to the hydraulic cylinder. I hope I don't find more issues after solving the hydraulic cylinder problem.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

reader2580 said:


> Okay, I am going to admit something I never mentioned before. I actually now have three snow blowers.


Don't worry, this is a safe place, no one's going to judge you for having 3 snowblowers  Just look at people's signatures and you'll see that might considered "a good start" by some folks 

Is that one of the kind of front-implement Toro's? Those seem pretty cool. Good luck getting it back ready to work again!

I can understand wanting a backup. Our driveway is not some huge affair. But I still feel better having a second, albeit smaller, machine available. If the big one had a mechanical failure during a storm, we wouldn't have to immediately resort to shoveling. 'Cause for some storms, man, that would really be a bummer.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

LOL … outside of the steps, and my front porch, I gave up shoveling many years ago …. If I ever had a rare mechanical problem in the middle of blowing, even a shear pin, I just park it and grab another one …  Any repairs are done in my warm shop … I am fortunate.


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## reubj (Jan 29, 2016)

What a great looking machine!


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## amuller (Jan 3, 2016)

Well, around here (Minnesota) cheap or free parts machines are easy enough to find on Craigslist or Marketplace or (in the spring) at sales. I don't know about other areas but doubt you will find a huge amount of sympathy here for not wanting to either do work or spend money.....


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

RedOctobyr said:


> Is that one of the kind of front-implement Toro's? Those seem pretty cool. Good luck getting it back ready to work again!


Yes, it is one of those front implement Toros. I had the previous generation Groundsmaster and it had a few issues that even the local Toro distributor couldn't seem to fix. I bought a unit one generation newer that was a county unit. I figured the county would take care of their stuff and it seemed to work great on a test drive. I am finding that a lot of stuff on the unit is plain wore out. Some of the parts I think Toro figured would last the lifetime of the unit so they aren't easy to repair. The mechanics also took some shortcuts on repairs that are causing me issues now. They didn't grease some parts on the mower deck so the rusted together and that just cost me $300 to fix.

The Loftness snow blower is 450 pounds so that causes a lot of issues due to the weight. The machine can barely lift the snow blower. I need more rear weight as the rear wheels steer and they often don't have enough weight to steer. I can turn the wheels, but the unit doesn't turn due to the wheels having no traction.


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## WIHD (Dec 15, 2019)

reader2580 said:


> The more I read the more I find out about how bad the quality is on new units, even the pro units. I just read a seven page thread from 2016 about Ariens quality issues.



Heres my current Ariens issues on a brand new 28" I bought in November


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

WIHD said:


> Heres my current Ariens issues on a brand new 28" I bought in November


""Issue" (singular), and in the end, it's a pretty trivial (yet important) item that is simple to replace . . Hardly anything that anyone would even remotely consider as part of a purchase decision . . Caca happens . . .


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

In my case I could have gone with two but just accepted more passes on the driveway in exchange for the maneuverability of the 24 inch in the tight places. 



I was at one place that needed a light machine for a flat garage roof - renters were friends so I helped out. It was a 3 car garage and no fun to shovel.


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

tadawson said:


> "Issue" (singular), and in the end, it's a pretty trivial (yet important) item that is simple to replace . . Hardly anything that anyone would even remotely consider as part of a purchase decision . . Caca happens . . .


Agreed. I'm sure the vast majority of the members here have had a problem with a new item or piece of equipment they have purchased. Annoying? Yes. Frustrating? Absolutely. However, that is not reason to assert that "everything seems to be junk now." IMHO, you get what you pay for and nothing is ever perfect 100% of the time.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

> A lot of people raise their eyebrow when I tell them I have two snowblower.


Imagine the look I get when I say I have 7 ….


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

oneacer said:


> Imagine the look I get when I say I have 7 ….


I maxed out at five, ive now stabilized at three. 

Scot


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

sscotsman said:


> I maxed out at five, ive now stabilized at three.
> 
> Scot


“Stable” is kind of a strong word to use here now isn’t it?


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

WIHD said:


> Heres my current Ariens issues on a brand new 28" I bought in November



Ok, one off and these things do happen. Why is it not back to the dealer?


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## johnwick (Dec 16, 2019)

Sleevie said:


> Nice fleet. You should add an 8th, looks like a single stage is missing! :smile_big:




Funny thing is that he couldn’t even fit them into one picture!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

> Funny thing is that he couldn’t even fit them into one picture!


LOL … actually I picked up that little Bolens free at my transfer station, after I already took the picture of the six … it was calling me before the other guy could even take it off his trailer , and wanted onto my trailer, so I took the little guy and gave hin a fresh start and new home … 

I telling you , this is a disease ….


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