# Hello, I'm a novice with a busted snowblower & a million questions



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

Hello I live in southern Maine and have had my Honda Model HS520ASA snowblower for a few years now with very few problems. (after the model number it has a EK too, not sure what that is)
I'd say it's about 10-12 years old and I've recently run into some issues.

(Disclaimer, I'm going to use a lot of terms I think are right and may in fact be other terms)

I was snowblowing a couple inches of snow the other day when there was a pretty loud boom (not deafening. I'm blown a lawnmower engine before, that was much louder) 
I turned it off and let it cool for a minute then went to start it again. I use a power cord and the electric start feature because it's easier than messing with the pull cord.
The 'starter' just made a ka-chunk sound and didn't turn over. I went to pull the cord and it wouldn't budge.
I looked up the problem online and deduced the engine must be seized so I took it inside and took off the spark plug to add some PB blaster (the consensus I saw online was that using that stuff and and oil change would probably unseize it) 

That's when things got... interesting.. I took off the spark plug and saw something I've never seen, the 'engine' side of the spark plug was ripped apart and the ceramic was smashed. The coil was also totally smashed into the ceramic. I bent it back up so it wouldn't spark or whatever. I'll try to attach a picture to show the damage. So that's the first thing. I was worried parts of the spark plug are now inside the engine so I shop-vacced the inside hoping to suck it out. Not sure if I was successful. I'm also not sure of there was any crap in there in the first place. 

Next I noticed the governor arm over by the choke was totally sheared in half. The top half was just hanging there. I'm not sure if that was boom I heard or if it was the spark plug doing whatever it was doing that was the boom.

So -- I'm going to order a new governor arm and spark plug and I ran about 30 seconds worth of PB blaster into the spark plug hole.
Once the parts get here I'm going to attach them, change the oil and hope that it starts.
Does anyone have any other advice or an idea why it died in the first place? Anyone ever seen that with a spark plug? 

IMG_4497[1] by matt Curren, on Flickr

IMG_4496[1] by matt Curren, on Flickr


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

oh yeah, it's time for a re-power. Even if the electrode went down the hole, it's toast. It has to be torn down, or simply replaced. Something, pieces of piston, probably hit that sparkplug hard. 

Drain the oil, put a magnet down into the catch can, betcha there's some metal in there, maybe a bearing, connecting rod, or piston skirt.


----------



## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Stick one of those $100 harbor freight engines on it and keep your oil changed and full.


----------



## CO Snow (Dec 8, 2011)

It’s toast.


----------



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

jsup said:


> oh yeah, it's time for a re-power. Even if the electrode went down the hole, it's toast. It has to be torn down, or simply replaced. Something, pieces of piston, probably hit that sparkplug hard.
> 
> Drain the oil, put a magnet down into the catch can, betcha there's some metal in there, maybe a bearing, connecting rod, or piston skirt.


thanks for the reply -- what's a 'repower'? when you say it's toast you mean the engine? Why would a piston turn into 'pieces of piston' is that something that happens? the engine just comes apart?
Sorry for all the questions. Me = novice


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Welcome to the forum. Re-power = time for a new engine. There could be a number of reasons for what happened.. but I'll let someone else name em


----------



## stromr (Jul 20, 2016)

You have serious internal engine damage. The only way to tell what exactly happened to it is to take the engine apart. It may be repairable by your local Honda dealer. When these guys say "repower" they mean replacing the engine with a new one. Usually engines blow up like this from lack of engine oil. If you're not up to it mechanically I suggest you take it to a Honda dealer or a local lawn and garden repair shop that will work on a Honda. If the snowblower is as old as you think it is it is probably more cost effective to just buy a new one. I would get an estimate for repairs first.


----------



## uberT (Dec 29, 2013)

Matt, welcome aboard! I luv that spark plug shot! Never seen anything like it


----------



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

micah68kj said:


> Stick one of those $100 harbor freight engines on it and keep your oil changed and full.


this is a thing? do you happen to have a link? I guess my pb blaster 'fix' isn't gonna work


----------



## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

A $99 dollar harbor freight engine for sure......should be an easy swap for the Honda....


----------



## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

yep...dont waste money on parts that wont fix that grenaded engine.......get the hemi predator and a couple of wrenches !


----------



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

OK, next dumb question. I think my snowblower is a 5hp (if anyone could tell me for sure I'd really appreciate it)
I found this one on harbor freight for $120 but it's 6.5 hp. Is that ok? does the extra 1.5hp mean they won't work well together or does it not matter? 

https://www.harborfreight.com/65-hp-212cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-epa-60363.html 

If I buy this one, I assume I don't need to buy the new governor arm and/or sparkplug. That's such a dumb question even I think I know the answer...


----------



## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

it should bolt right up...no extra parts needed. you will have to use the pulleys off the blown engine. enjoy the extra hp !


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Matt Honda HS520ASA said:


> thanks for the reply -- what's a 'repower'? when you say it's toast you mean the engine? Why would a piston turn into 'pieces of piston' is that something that happens? the engine just comes apart?
> Sorry for all the questions. Me = novice


Pieces of piston was an exaggeration, sort of. The only thing that could hit that spark plug is, a piece of piston. Checking for pieces of piston in the "oil pan" was an exaggeration. Just joking. 

Repower means a new engine, here's a link on the Harbor Freight Engine: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...m/106857-predator-212cc-engines-sale-now.html

I have one on a power washer, they run great.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

nwcove said:


> it should bolt right up...no extra parts needed. you will have to use the pulleys off the blown engine. enjoy the extra hp !


It's a direct knock off of the Honda I believe. Should just bolt up. 

This re-power is really quite an easy job. Four bolts and a pulley is a slight over exaggeration, but it's almost that simple.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

nwcove said:


> yep...dont waste money on parts that wont fix that grenaded engine.......get the hemi predator and a couple of wrenches !


What's the difference between the hemi and non hemi predator? How do you know which one you have? I have one on a power washer wondering which it is.

BTW, I know what the "hemi" refers to in terms of pistons..but don't know how or why it applies to these engines.


----------



## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

that spark plug looks like something harder then the piston hit it, maybe more in line of a dropped/broken valve, with a motor blown to that degree ,yes it will be cheaper to drop a harbor tools motor on it, the 6.5 should be a dead drop on with more torque to help run the machine. the OP's lucky with all the repower threads in here,and all of us willing to help with advise.

rebuild wise i would first pull off the head to see the damage inside it , for sure there is a lot, and see if the block is even reuseable.if one of the valves did fail and the bore is undamaged which IMO doubt, one would be looking at a new or good used head, new piston,rings.gaskets and seals, machine shop to hone the bore so new rings can seat, if the bore is even within specs with 10 to 12 years of run time,no matter it's a lot of money


----------



## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

​


jsup said:


> What's the difference between the hemi and non hemi predator? How do you know which one you have? I have one on a power washer wondering which it is.
> 
> BTW, I know what the "hemi" refers to in terms of pistons..but don't know how or why it applies to these engines.


from what ive read, its just a different part # on the box. the hemi head engine seems to be coveted by the go kart and mini bike group as with a few aftermarket mods it will spin up to some impressive rpms, big hp for the cc, and
still hold together.


----------



## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

nwcove said:


> ​
> from what ive read, its just a different part # on the box. the hemi head engine seems to be coveted by the go kart and mini bike group as with a few aftermarket mods it will spin up to some impressive rpms, big hp for the cc, and
> still hold together.


the difference is the number and can be seen by the cast valve cover with ohv on it for the hemi,ver. the stamped steel of the non. and yes they are popular with the go kart and mini bike people with lots of parts made to hot rod them 

just looking at hft sites the 6.5 on sale are both hemi's


----------



## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

thread about hemi head Predators.
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/re-powering/69449-predator-212cc-engine-3-models-differences.html
Summary;
60363 = Hemi head
69730 = non hemi head
69727 = non hemi head California compliant


----------



## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

And if your local HF doesn't have a Hemi head model, the non-hemi will be ok.


----------



## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

You destroyed a Honda engine ??? nice work. :surprise:

Yea, PB blaster ain't gonna fix that . . . 

I got my $5 bet on the connecting rod broke sending the piston into the spark plug. Lots of broken metal probably inside that engine now.

Predator 212cc would be the way to go, as stated.


----------



## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

tpenfield said:


> I got my $5 bet on the connecting rod broke sending the piston into the spark plug. Lots of broken metal probably inside that engine now.



You like to bet on pretty much sure things, don't you :devil:


----------



## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

I'd be interested in knowing if the engine ran out of oil. Have you checked your dip stick after the blow up?


----------



## SayItAintSnow (Dec 15, 2017)

Sorry about the damage Matt. That's a shame....:sad2:

As you can tell by the comments, the consensus is that the engine done-- and I'd have to concur. 

_*Except*_, if it were my machine, I'd at least pull the engine, and remove the head and have a look inside to determine the extent of the damage. It's likely that the piston is detached from the connecting rod, and God knows what else is broken or damaged down below that. Often times when one blows up with this kind of severity, you'll even find a hole somewhere in the housing. If the bore is damaged (very likely) then I likely wouldn't try to re-build it.

I can't suggest the Predator engine only because I have no experience with it, but I have thought about getting one of these for quite a while, for a dead single stage and configure it so it could be brought back to life just for fun. I know nothing about the reliability of those engines. Not everything of course, but a lot of stuff from Harbor Freight is just plain junk, as I'm sure you know. But maybe those engines are a decent value. (??)

But getting back to assessing the damage: I can tell you from experience that many times the cost for parts to fix it, could easily exceed the cost of one of those cheapo predators, even if you can do it yourself. Assuming you had all the necessary parts, and could put it back together, if you do just one little thing wrong, there's always the chance it could blow up on you again. :surprise:

I'm curious looking at that broken linkage photo....Do you recall if the engine seemed to speed up suddenly, right before it detonated?


----------



## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

went back looking at the spark plug, took something real hard to mess up the threaded part, could have lost a valve keeper, broke a valve spring ,dropped a valve through the piston, chunks of piston fell down into the governor 
either way i would love take it apart


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

87 powershift said:


> went back looking at the spark plug, took something real hard to mess up the threaded part, could have lost a valve keeper, broke a valve spring ,dropped a valve through the piston, chunks of piston fell down into the governor
> either way i would love take it apart


It would be interesting to take it apart.


----------



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

barney said:


> I'd be interested in knowing if the engine ran out of oil. Have you checked your dip stick after the blow up?


I decided to say 'screw it' and went to florida...

but just to see my parents for christmas. When I get back this busted blower will be waiting for me. 
I'm ordering the engine online and can't get the coupon code to go through to knock the price down to $100. It's amazing you can get the entire engine for that cheap. and that they'll ship if to you for $7! If anyone has any insight on making the coupon work I'd appreciate it. $120 is still a steal in my book.

But ya there was plenty of oil and I changed it a couple months ago when i got it out for the season. Can too much oil cause this? Thanks for all the help and advice on here. I'm sure I'll be back with a million more questions when my non-mechanically-inclined ass tries to switch out these motors. A couple people have asked, so when it's done I"ll tear the old one apart and give you a look inside. I'm curious too.


----------



## sciphi (May 5, 2014)

Wow, that's impressively broken. 

There should be a spot to enter the coupon code at one of the checkout screens. 

The extra power will be welcomed during the big storms. My current blower went from 3.5 hp to 6.5 hp, and is better for it.


----------



## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

Try a different coupon code if the one you have won't take. 

Harbor Freight Tools Coupon Database - Free coupons, 25 percent off coupons, toolbox coupons - 6.5 HP (212 CC) OHV HORIZONTAL SHAFT GAS ENGINES


----------



## FullThrottle (Apr 7, 2017)

Sounds like you may have lost a connecting Rod.I had and old MTD for years and it died the same way except it took the side of the crankcase out.



Matt Honda HS520ASA said:


> this is a thing? do you happen to have a link? I guess my pb blaster 'fix' isn't gonna work


----------



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

I got the new engine in and it's working great. THANK YOU for all the help I got on here. I tore the old motor apart and found the problem. Photos as promised.

IMG_4601 by matt Curren, on Flickr

IMG_4600 by matt Curren, on Flickr

thanks again!


----------



## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

Yea, looks like a can of Slick50 wasn’t going to fix that.


----------



## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

Matt Honda HS520ASA said:


> this is a thing? do you happen to have a link? I guess my pb blaster 'fix' isn't gonna work


Harbor Freight has a store in South Portland, Maine on Western Ave, near the Jetport.


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Just found this thread. Wow! That piston is blown to bits. 

That's awesome that you got the new engine installed, nice work! 

Did the pulley from the Honda fit properly on the Predator? I've heard that their crankshaft diameters can be slightly smaller on the Predator, making the pulley a somewhat loose fit. But maybe in this case their sizes matched. 

Thanks for posting the follow-up pics!


----------



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Just found this thread. Wow! That piston is blown to bits.
> 
> That's awesome that you got the new engine installed, nice work!
> 
> ...


Yes it fit perfectly!


----------



## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

OP mentioned in the original post that the governor arm was broken. That being said i suspect when the governor arm broke the engine severely over reved and blew the con rod in spectacular fashion.

Never saw a Honda blew up that bad congrats


----------



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

CarlB said:


> OP mentioned in the original post that the governor arm was broken. That being said i suspect when the governor arm broke the engine severely over reved and blew the con rod in spectacular fashion.
> 
> Never saw a Honda blew up that bad congrats


THat's really interesting thanks! I've been wondering what the heck I did or didn't do to make this happen. Wish I noticed the governor arm sooner. Before it died "in spectacular" fashion it was backfiring more than normal, that must have been a product of the over-revving. I figured it was bad gas etc and tried to diagnose it. The governor arm wasn't something I knew to look for. 
All and all I fixed the problem for $120 and an embarrassing amount of man hours so it wasn't a financial backbreaker.


----------



## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Nicely done, It’s good to know that a predator or GX200 fits the hs520/HS720 chassis. 

Incase it hasn’t been covered, For optimal results remove the air filter, and up the main jet size on the predator. 

Good luck with it.


----------



## jrcjr (Sep 23, 2017)

PB Blaster no good...
...try AK-47. 
Give it a 21 gun sendoff.

Reminds me of the days where my Uncle took an old motorcycle or two that he could no longer get parts for (nothing rare, rest assured) and set them out on the shooting range. The guys shot 'em up with their AKs and SKSes (Chinese AK variant). Over the years and continually taking pot-shots at them, we reduced those motorcycles (including forks, handlebars, tanks and suspension parts) to nothing larger than a tangerine.


----------



## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

Mother of pearl! What a spectacular HOLE! Did you notice any bent or mangled valves?! That's an impressive amount of damage. Looks like a valve let go and smashed the ever loving crap out of that piston and spark plug. YIKES!

A bad valve could possibly explain the backfiring and rough running. I wonder if a sudden stop of that engine at full speed is what caused the governor to shear off like that.


----------



## Matt Honda HS520ASA (Dec 17, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> Nicely done, It’s good to know that a predator or GX200 fits the hs520/HS720 chassis.
> 
> Incase it hasn’t been covered, For optimal results remove the air filter, and *up the main jet size on the predator*.
> 
> Good luck with it.


Thanks! Can I ask what the underlined part means? I've read about the air filter before but I'm hesitant to remove. Just makes me nervous.


----------



## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Matt Honda HS520ASA said:


> Thanks! Can I ask what the underlined part means? I've read about the air filter before but I'm hesitant to remove. Just makes me nervous.


If you read through the Honda forum thread labeled re-jetting, you’ll see a lot of discussion. But in a nut shell, the main jet in the carburetor controls the amount of fuel the engine ingests. General purpose engines like predators are primarily jetted for warmer temps. Winter duty engines need more fuel. On top of that EPA CARB emission standards force manufactures to use smaller jets in order to keep exhaust pollutants to a minimum. This all comes at a cost to engine performance. 

The stock predator 212 jet is .028”. Something around .031 is optimal for winter temps. Don’t be afraid to remove the air filter. It’s only going to cause more problems if you leave it installed. No winter duty engine is equipped with an air filter.


----------

