# 2014 Deluxe 24 wont fire ???



## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

Hi everyone this is my first post here, thanks in advance for any help you all can provide. I will try to return the favor if I can answer anyone elses questions in this thread. 
I purchased a brand new 2014 Deluxe 24 snowblower in 2014, I was eligable for a 5 year warranty and thats the main reason I purchased this unit over a Husky or Cub Cadet etc. Not to mention everyone says Ariens is the OG snowthrower company. I can tell you that I own and maintain a plethora of power equipment and this is the only machine in my shop that doesnt run. 
So the unit was purchased new. It ran great and started first pull for 2 seasons. On the third season it would not fire. I dropped it at the dealer where I purchased it (killingworth True Value in Killingworth CT) and they fixed it since I had the warranty and didnt want to screw with it. I was told there was an issue with the Run stop switch wires chaffing and arcing and this is what caused the first issue. 
The unit then worked good up untill this season when I pulled it out to get it shook down for winter, that when it would not fire. I run the unit on c12 VP the previous season for those that are not familiar that is 100 octane ethanol free fuel. 
I then pulled the spark plug and checked for spark, the unti has decent spar, I installed a new NGK plug and tried to fire, No luck still wont fire. 
I then pulled the carb and cleaned it. I pulled all the jets and needle and seat and everything was perfect. I re assembled the carb and re installed. Tried to fire, No luck. I then checked fuel line to gas tank, It was flowing well. I then squirted fuel into the cylinder and tried to fire, no luck, it just pops and backfires and will not start. I had a spare brand new carb in my overhead for my Generac genreator which was the exact same model so I threw it on and tried to start it again. Still wont start. 
I then ohmed out the switch and it has continuity when in run position and not when in off position. The key switch appears to be functioning as when i spin it over with the electric start with switch on run it pops and spits but when in off position it does nothing. 
I also tried to fire with gas cap off fearing a vapor lock, still no luck. It just pops and spits and wont fire. 

So whats next compression check ? What is target compression for a ax254 Ariens engine ? Im at a loss with this thing. The Killingworth True Value is telling me that the warranty is only on the unit itself and not the engine. Is this true ? Why the **** did I buy a machine with a warranty that doesnt follow thru with there products ? 

Please Help !!!


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

i would disconnect the kill switches and try it. if still the same, reconnect switches, and look for those wires that were repaired and possibly shorting before the kill switches.


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

I didnt mention but i already did that. no dice.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

Rowch01 said:


> The Killingworth True Value is telling me that the warranty is only on the unit itself and not the engine. Is this true ? Why the **** did I buy a machine with a warranty that doesnt follow thru with there products ?


I will follow your progress with interest as I have the same machine, 2017 model. Apparently the dealer is correct, I just looked it up in the manual under "Exceptions and limitations":



> Engines are covered by engine manufacturer's warranty. Refer to engine manufacturer's warranty statement.


Hmm... I didn't see any engine manual or engine warranty with the package of paperwork I got. This is not good news.


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## Motor City (Jan 6, 2014)

I would check compression first. It almost sounds like the flywheel has a sheared key. Did you drain out the gas from last season and refill with fresh gas? Try some starting fluid and see what it does. Otherwise you may have to dig deeper into the engine, such as flywheel key.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/B-2116.pdf
could be this
not likely a sheared key


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Pull the fan shroud first and check for a mouse nest as they love to chew on coil wires.


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

WVguy said:


> Rowch01 said:
> 
> 
> > The Killingworth True Value is telling me that the warranty is only on the unit itself and not the engine. Is this true ? Why the **** did I buy a machine with a warranty that doesnt follow thru with there products ?
> ...


Yea this is literally a waste of excitement for a good warranty. Just like everything else these days .... Next time I’m buying a Husqvarna like all my other power equipment that all run and start every time.




Motor City said:


> I would check compression first. It almost sounds like the flywheel has a sheared key. Did you drain out the gas from last season and refill with fresh gas? Try some starting fluid and see what it does. Otherwise you may have to dig deeper into the engine, such as flywheel key.



Gas was drained and replaced with fresh fuel. No dice 
I sprayed some ether in the carb and cylinder head and neither would fire the engine. Just popping and backfiring some more. 


Any idea on what the compression range should be on this POS Chinese engine ???


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

1132le said:


> http://apache.ariens.com/manuals/B-2116.pdf
> could be this
> not likely a sheared key



I mentioned in the OP this was already warranted on my unit. Thank you for the idea though.


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

leonz said:


> Pull the fan shroud first and check for a mouse nest as they love to chew on coil wires.


Hmmmmm this could be my issue but most of the harness I can see from the on off switch to the key switch and into the coil look ok. Wouldn’t there be no spark if a mouse chewed thru my harness or coil ?


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Rowch01 said:


> I mentioned in the OP this was already warranted on my unit. Thank you for the idea though.





does not mean its not that again
follow the steps
Int spark is a bish the steps also rule out a bad coil


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## KingDavey (Jan 31, 2018)

Did you check the flywheel key?


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

IDK guys,,,,,He checked spark 3x and it still has spark??? Rebuilt/cleaned/replaced carb 3x and it's still not running?? The clue is in the Popping..... FIRST check compression....Any engine needs a minimum of 60 psi to fire. I'm sure it has compression release, so an exact psi number may not be attainable. But the popping suggests either incorrect ignition timing, such as a sheared flywheel key, or very low compression, caused by valve train issue or head gasket as the most likely. First verify engine integrity with a compression test. IF it's low, I would pull valve cover and inspect valve train and check valve clearance. I would not be chasing ignition or fuel related problems at this point.

GLuck, Jay


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello Rowch01,

Is the spark plug end fully threaded on the spark plug? is the spark plug boot fully engaged on the plug? 

You would still have a spark, just not a very consistent or good one. The engine would fire and misfire as the DC energy created by the 4 cycle engine would want to go everywhere and anywhere and then become weaker and then just die out.
Since this thing is still under warranty I would just rent a small trailer or invest in a beer and pizza bribe for a neighbor and just take it to the dealer and make sure you have a copy of the manual to put in the dealers hand when you get there.


I looked at the service bulletin and they seem to be very thorough in their description of the existing problem with these engines in that specific inventory group.


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

Pulled the fan shroud the coil looked perfect. I re-set the magneto gap to .012" on the top and bottom pickups.


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

KingDavey said:


> Did you check the flywheel key?


Technically no, however when I had the fan shroud off to check the coil wires I spun the flywheel over by hand and the engine was turning over. So my assumption is flywheel key(s) are not sheared ?


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

JayzAuto1 said:


> IDK guys,,,,,He checked spark 3x and it still has spark??? Rebuilt/cleaned/replaced carb 3x and it's still not running?? The clue is in the Popping..... FIRST check compression....Any engine needs a minimum of 60 psi to fire. I'm sure it has compression release, so an exact psi number may not be attainable. But the popping suggests either incorrect ignition timing, such as a sheared flywheel key, or very low compression, caused by valve train issue or head gasket as the most likely. First verify engine integrity with a compression test. IF it's low, I would pull valve cover and inspect valve train and check valve clearance. I would not be chasing ignition or fuel related problems at this point.
> 
> GLuck, Jay


The Engine has Spark, How do I go about checking timing Im well versed in timing an auto engine but not a OHV Snowblower Engine. I will do a leak down and compression test as soon as I have a couple hours to get out into the shop and continue diagnosis. 
If its low I will do as you suggested and check valve train clearances. 

Thanks Jay !


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

leonz said:


> Hello Rowch01,
> 
> Is the spark plug end fully threaded on the spark plug? is the spark plug boot fully engages on the plug?
> 
> ...


As far as I know the plug is in to snug and then an additional half turn to tight. This is how I install it every time its removed, yes the spark plug nipple is tight and pops on with a positive engagement when boot is installed.
No need to rent any vehicles or ask any favors I have a truck. I called the dealer and they want 150$ to diagnose. I can save my 150 and fix it on my own. I am a hands on person with great mechanicle ability and understanding of how engines work and diagnostics. I am not however a small engine expert so Im just learning as I go with this.


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## KingDavey (Jan 31, 2018)

Rowch01 said:


> Technically no, however when I had the fan shroud off to check the coil wires I spun the flywheel over by hand and the engine was turning over. So my assumption is flywheel key(s) are not sheared ?


 Not necessarily, Keys don't hold the position of the flywheel, they just set it. The nut or bolt holding the flywheel to the tapered shaft is what keeps the flywheel locked in place. I'd check that before breaking a valve cover seal. I don't know if LCT engines have resusable valve cover seals. Just remember if the flywheel has threaded holes, those are for a puller and not to be used with long bolts to push the flywheel off. That can damage the stator and block. A compression test is easy and can tell you if your engine is sound too.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Do you have a wooden dowel or some rope that you can put in the combustion chamber through the spark plug hole to hold the piston down to check that the flywheel key is not sheared off?

This is the definitive way to assure it is not completely sheared off.

The only Caviat I can add is that the key could be partially sheared off and this allows the engine to fire BUT the timing will be off.


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## KingDavey (Jan 31, 2018)

Holding the piston with a dowel, and turning the flywheel isn't a good idea. Piston damage or even bending the connecting rod could happen. The only way to check a key is to pull the flywheel.


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## Bluejoe (Nov 29, 2016)

I would check the valve clearances.


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## ABOSWORTH (Nov 29, 2018)

Rowch01 said:


> Yea this is literally a waste of excitement for a good warranty. Just like everything else these days .... Next time I’m buying a Husqvarna like all my other power equipment that all run and start every time.



I'm pretty sure the Husqvarna engines are made by LCT, same as Ariens. They are supposedly, really good engines, even though they are made in China but isn't everything these days? Sorry you're having bad luck with your machine. That is BS that they offer a warranty but not on the engine. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

ABOSWORTH said:


> I'm pretty sure the Husqvarna engines are made by LCT, same as Ariens. They are supposedly, really good engines, even though they are made in China but isn't everything these days? Sorry you're having bad luck with your machine. That is BS that they offer a warranty but not on the engine. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.


Yes Husqvarna and Ariens BOTH use LCT engines, Only difference is Ariens use a 1" shaft and Husqvarna uses a 3/4" shaft which LCT makes the engines with both and can be ordered from LCT under the LCT name with either size shaft. But parts are interchangeable between the two, Only other differences are cosmetic like the shape of the muffler guard but that ALSO will fit on Either as the mounting points are the same. Same warranty issue there too, Engine warranty is through LCT.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

sounds like timing to me as well.....valve clearance or keyway issue..


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## BeerGhost (Dec 17, 2013)

If it ran when you put it away,Things just don't break on their own sleeping all summer.
Low oil shutdown, add a little oil-seen this on my coworkers tiller engine.
valves sticking open in the head.

If it wont fire on ether there are issues. If it pops out the exhaust on ether look for sticking exhaust valve.
if it pops out the carb look for a sticking intake valve. Check the Valve lash too. 

Forgot First thing...Pour some oil down the plug hole. spin it over a few times then try to fire it up.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Lots of good advice. Along with some that, err, I don't fully agree with.

A compression check is a good test. But I have Tecumseh snowblower engines that start just fine, and run well (valves checked, and cylinder bore good), with about 40-45 psi when pulling the cord by hand. IMO, a blanket statement like "you need 60 psi minimum" is a little too broad. 

Having a visible spark, but only popping at best (even when adding another fuel source), sounds to me like: 
- wrong ignition timing
- very low compression, like maybe a valve sticking open partially, or clearances way too small 

It was mentioned that a flywheel key won't shear from just sitting around, which is true. But a backfire, for instance, could shear the key. Even something as unlikely as backfiring when shutting it down at the last use. Unlikely, but possible, I guess. 

Otherwise I'd check the valve operation, and clearances. Since removing that cover may be easier than pulling the flywheel, I'd maybe start with the valves. I wouldn't expect the valve clearances to magically change either, of course, but perhaps something got stuck from sitting in the off-season? Or there's a piece of something stuck on the valve seat. 

You can check for basic valve operation by ensuring you're getting air out the exhaust, and air drawing in through the carb, when cranking the engine with the electric starter, and with the ignition off or plug wire pulled. If, for some reason, one valve wasn't opening at all (bent pushrod or something else weird), you wouldn't have air movement at one of the two locations. 

Do you have an inline spark tester? If so, I'd hook that up and just be certain you're still getting spark when it counts (under compression, with the plug wire in the normal position). It's an easy test if you have one.


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

Ok I got it figured out last night after the wife and baby went to bed I snuck down into the shop to figure this thing out. 

I did I compression check and 0 compression ! 

Pulled the valve cover off only to find a Frozen exhaust valve. 

It was partially stuck open. 

I compressed the exhaust valve spring and pulled the shin and retainer off. 

Valve wouldn’t move at all. 

I then pulled the head off and pushed the valve out.

I checked to make sure it wasn’t bent and also checked the pushrod was not bent. 

Both seemed good ! 

I scotch brightens the cylinder head valve seat and put the valve in a drill and spun it on high and cleaned the carbon buildup off the valve head and valve stem. 

After both were clean to my liking I slid the valve back into the guide/seal and it seemed like all was interacting as it should.

I double checked the performance of the valve by reinstalling the valve spring, retainer and valve shim bucket and reinstalled the head.

I reused all gaskets as they appeared to be in fantastic shape and retourqed to 31lb ft. 

I pulled the hand cord and spun the motor a few times, both valves were opening and closing as they should. 

I reinstalled the muffler and carb, all sheetmetal and heat guards. 

It was now 12:30 am and I went to bed. 

Today I went down to the shop, installed the spark plug, flipped the kill switch to run, turned the gas on, pumped the primer bulb three times, choke on full, idle set to high, pulled the starter cord twice and vroom !!! 

It fired on second or third pull and ran well !! 

I let it run for about 5 minutes at high idle, I engaged the transmission and auger a few times without any bogging or issues. 

I allowed to fully cool and re fired again, no issues. 

I’m not sure what caused the exhaust valve to seize. This is still baffling my mind.... there was almost no carbon buildup on the piston or combtion chamber but only around the valve seal and stem. 

Could it have been running lean since new and finally got too hot while ideling the fuel out last spring and seized once I turned it off for the year ? 

It’s now running well, I’m still baffled !! 

THANK YOU ALL for all the help and information !!!! 

This is a great forum !


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## BeerGhost (Dec 17, 2013)

Glad you got it Running!
Next year when you go to store it pull on the rope slowly when you feel compression stop. I store all my engines in that manner valves are shut so no moisture enters the combustion chamber.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Very happy you got it running, great job and troubleshooting!!!!:icon-cheers:


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## Rowch01 (Dec 28, 2018)

Thanks to all and a Happy anew Year to all !


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## ABOSWORTH (Nov 29, 2018)

That is so strange that the valve was seized. I wonder how that happened? Glad you got it figured out though.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

For what its worth, for years I always put Stabil and Seafoam in all my 5 gal. gas cans for all my small engines ..... never had a starting or running issue.


Seems to keep everything running clean and smooth, even my fathers 50 year old Yardman. 



I have also switched over to a Full Synthetic, 5w-30 oil, years ago. Very nice starts and operation in any temperature, on all equipment, summer and winter.


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