# the new multi-impeller machines, reviews ?



## greatwhitebuffalo

I was in a power equipment store, and then in Lowe's in the past 2 weeks, getting small parts for my machines. They had Cub Cadet, Toro, Husqvarna, etc. new machines with the multiple impeller setup. Actually it looks more like 2 propellers, one in front, on in back of the auger tines, then the impeller behind that in the usual location. 

so what are these now, 4 stage machines ?? 

they look like they'll really eat up the snow banks at first glance. but those suckers are expensive. $1100 at Lowes, and the Cadets had power steering, etc. and were $2500

WTH is going to pay that much, for a snowblower that will be worth $500 a year later on a good day ?

the way I look at it, no matter now much the snow is chewed up and processed in the front, it's the impeller that throws it out. over-processing the snow into a very thin slushy mix may actually have a detrimental effect, rather than advantageous. but the engines appear to be on the big side to handle it.

this was a new design last year by what the Cadet dealer told me, but he has not ran one himself yet.

anyone try them here ?


----------



## sscotsman

There have been some discussions about them on this forum..
most agree they are simply useless gimmicks..

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...discussion/3449-three-stage-trend-coming.html

Snowblowers are very simple and basic machines..the basic function was perfected half a century ago. Real advances have been made since then in safety, but there is very little left to "advance" in terms of the operation of the machine itself..
So in order to differentiate themselves in the marketplace, (some) manufacturers choose to come up with gimmicks, which usually have no advantage in reality, and are often actually disadvantages! they only "look good" on the sales floor.

Some of the major "gimmicks" that are actually disadvantages.

1. Electric chute controls.
seriously?! turning a manual crank that is *right in front of you* is too much trouble?!  we have to push an electric button instead? utterly pointless..and usually*much worse* than the manual crank, because the electric switch can fail, making the machine unusable until its fixed.. 

2. Wheels instead of skids. 
we have discussed these before..no benefit over skids, and several disadvantages over skids.

3. All these various "three stage" designs..
no benefit over traditional designs..So far we dont know if they are *worse* or not..there hasnt been much testing or reviews on them yet..We do know one disadvantage already though! They do seem to have a higher cost..and the higher cost is only for a gimmick that probably gains you absolutely no advantage over a traditional design.

MTD should work on making their machines *better*..not gimmickier..
but market forces are also at work here..most consumers are pretty clueless..if the salesman says "look! this one has THREE stages! obviously three stages is BETTER than two stages!"..lots of people will believe it, because they simply dont know any better..consumer ignorance can be a major sales factor.

Scot


----------



## LouF

I was also looking at the 3X Cub Cadet before purchasing my Husqvarna this year.The mechanic at the dealer where I bought my snow blower says that the center blades will get bent at the first frozen newspaper that it ingests rendering it out of balance and in need of his attention.He 's been witness to all kinds of strange stuff spun around snow blower insides.His favorite is the unseen dog chain that was wrapped around the impeller.


----------



## wdb

Here's an honest sounding review.

2014 Cub Cadet 3Xâ„¢ 28 & 24 inch Three-Stage Snow Blower Review - MovingSnow.com

I looked at the Cub Cadet at a Home Depot. I don't want to hurt any feelings but it looked chintzy.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

I have an older Craftsman three stage with the bar above the main auger and it would be better at knocking down drifts if the housing flared up instead of coming over the top.

Always make sure you don't have a battery charger on a vehicle and an extension cord running across the driveway.

The picture isn't mine but I've done it


----------



## Marty013

oh Deere!  before someone sez it lol


----------



## greatwhitebuffalo

3x faster processing snow is a gimmick

normal walking speed is 3mph, and no one wants to jog behind a machine at 9mph, it's tiresome, stupid, and the operator looks silly

I've got more than a few old warhorses with very thick auger tines that are bent from previous owners hitting things, even though they are very stiff and hard to bend. IMO those tines, propellers, impeller on these new machines look mighty thin and chintzy to my eyes. I think they'll be bending very easily.


----------



## Skeet Shooter

Full speed on my Honda Hydro is plenty fast enough for me. I would be more concerned with distance of snow cleared and the design and durability of the impeller... If its a good stout design with tight tolerances, with a fairly good speed, it will move snow fast, far and with extreme prejudice.


----------



## sscotsman

Skeet Shooter said:


> If its a good stout design with tight tolerances, with a fairly good speed, it will move snow fast, far and with extreme prejudice.


Take a look at one of the "3-stage" Cub Cadets or Troy-Bilts in person at Lowes. (I have)..wiggle the augers a bit, then decide if they seem "stout" or not!  (hint: I did not.)

Scot


----------



## ihscoutlover

I bought a 3x, I feel it's good construction. Sure the impeller can bend, many can. I look at avoiding obstacles altogether. You ask the homeowner ahead of time and try to check your area. Sure you'll miss things, but do you leave big sticks and branches on the ground with your lawn mower?? Same deal. You don't cut on rocks with a chainsaw either. I like the construction of the cub and can't wait to put it through it's paces on snow. I'm pleased with my purchase so far, however not the shipper that delivered it to me.


----------



## Soulcoffr

Two stages seem to be plenty for most airport runway blowers.

There's also the SnoGo which has three spinning augers at the front with a second stage throwing the snow out the chute. It's exciting to watch, but it tends to toss softball sized ice chunks forward.

Still, big heavy industrial snow removal equipment is mostly two stage.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

ihscoutlover said:


> I'm pleased with my purchase so far, however not the shipper that delivered it to me.


Once you have some time with it let us know how it compares to what you had previously in speed of processing snow and distance tossed.


----------



## wdb

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Once you have some time with it let us know how it compares to what you had previously in speed of processing snow and distance tossed.


Ditto! This is good information to share with the forum.


----------



## greatwhitebuffalo

ihscoutlover said:


> I bought a 3x, I feel it's good construction. Sure the impeller can bend, many can. I look at avoiding obstacles altogether. You ask the homeowner ahead of time and try to check your area. Sure you'll miss things, but do you leave big sticks and branches on the ground with your lawn mower?? Same deal. You don't cut on rocks with a chainsaw either. I like the construction of the cub and can't wait to put it through it's paces on snow. I'm pleased with my purchase so far, however not the shipper that delivered it to me.


 
hmmm...not a good compare....lawnmower blades hit rocks, but those almost never bend, and are easily re-sharpened. they are replaced once in a while. chain saws, the chain can be sharpened, and is a wearing often replaced part.

snowblower augers and impellers, are a lifetime machine part, and if those bend, that's trouble- a lot worse than hitting something with a chainsaw or lawnmower.

the machine needs major surgery if the auger, impeller, shafts are bent


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

I think his point wasn't that augers or impellers were a wear part like mower blades or saw chains but that being conscientious in picking up the area you'll be operating in cuts down of the chance of ingesting something and doing damage.


----------



## wdb

I saw a 3-stage Toro at Lowe's yesterday. I imagine the brand names will continue to proliferate.

EDIT: Troy-bilt, not Toro. Mea culpa!


----------



## sscotsman

ihscoutlover said:


> I bought a 3x, I feel it's good construction. Sure the impeller can bend, many can. I look at avoiding obstacles altogether. You ask the homeowner ahead of time and try to check your area. Sure you'll miss things, but do you leave big sticks and branches on the ground with your lawn mower?? Same deal. You don't cut on rocks with a chainsaw either. I like the construction of the cub and can't wait to put it through it's paces on snow. I'm pleased with my purchase so far, however not the shipper that delivered it to me.


hmmm..I dont think you can legitimately say "I feel it's good construction" and "Sure the impeller can bend" in the same sentence!  Those are mutually exclusive statements..

and its not really true that "many can" (bend)..a bent impeller should be an exceedingly rare event..most snowblowers, with normal use, should not even be concerned about bent impellers at all..If you can actually notice that the impeller seems bendable, that's not good, or normal.

Scot


----------



## detdrbuzzard

wdb said:


> I saw a 3-stage Toro at Lowe's yesterday. I imagine the brand names will continue to proliferate.


toro doesn't make a three stage snowblower maybe you saw a troy built three stage snowblower


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

Don't see any Toros on their site. Troy does make the Vortex. It seems to toss more snow out the front than I would want it to. That and the demo isn't with any deep virgin snow fall. Most looks already plowed or moved for the demo.

Don't have one, haven't operated one but not real sold on the idea that it's able to move more snow than a regular 2 stage. Interested to hear from 3X owners how they like or hate them.

.


----------



## UNDERTAKER

micah68kj said:


> Yaawwnnn.


 DITTo


----------



## detdrbuzzard

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Don't see any Toros on their site. Troy does make the Vortex. It seems to toss more snow out the front than I would want it to. That and the demo isn't with any deep virgin snow fall. Most looks already plowed or moved for the demo.
> 
> Don't have one, haven't operated one but not real sold on the idea that it's able to move more snow than a regular 2 stage. Interested to hear from 3X owners how they like or hate them.
> 
> .
> Introducing the Vortex Three-Stage Snow Thrower from Troy-Bilt® - YouTube


looks like a red cub cadet


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

detdrbuzzard said:


> looks like a red cub cadet


Yup.


----------



## GustoGuy

ihscoutlover said:


> I bought a 3x, I feel it's good construction. Sure the impeller can bend, many can. I look at avoiding obstacles altogether. You ask the homeowner ahead of time and try to check your area. Sure you'll miss things, but do you leave big sticks and branches on the ground with your lawn mower?? Same deal. You don't cut on rocks with a chainsaw either. I like the construction of the cub and can't wait to put it through it's paces on snow. I'm pleased with my purchase so far, however not the shipper that delivered it to me.


I looked at a Cub Cadet 3x and it is certainly well made machine. One person here on the forum complained that it used cables rather than control rods. *I have cables on my 19 year old MTD that is repowered with a 6.5 hp HF Predator and these cables have not worn out or broken even once in the 19 years that I owned it. Braided steel cables that are covered in a tough plastic coating will hold up for years and years before coming apart.* Consumer reviews do rank this snow blower quite well and I heard that they are very good a moving a lot of snow at a pretty high rate of speed when compared to the standard 2 stage blowers which seem to struggle more when the snow is deeper than a foot or so. *I feel that high end MTD machines are of decent quality and should last for 10+ years to 20 years with just routine maintanece.* Too many people here on the forum are so obviously biased and tend to hate on anything other than an Ariens or Honda snow blowers which are very high quailty fine machines. However I would not buy an all Chinese model either such as a Snow beast or Stanley. Also the better MTD snowblower bodies are still made here i the USA. I also look at the machine closely to see how well it is made. All steel contruction. Grease zerks? Can you can pick the bucket up at the edge and see if the whole machine twists (bad) or if it is nice and stiff which is good.


----------



## wdb

detdrbuzzard said:


> toro doesn't make a three stage snowblower maybe you saw a troy built three stage snowblower


You are correct, my bad. I added an edit to my post.



detdrbuzzard said:


> looks like a red cub cadet


It did indeed.


----------



## J_ph

> I feel that high end MTD machines are of decent quality and should last for 10+ years to 20 years with just routine maintanece.


I have a 357cc 26" and it does seems to be a good sturdy machine. It works for me. I think the guys with the 420cc HD model must be having more fun with the larger engine.

Now that repairclinic.com is starting to handle CubCadet parts and instructional videos that seems to be a plus too.

I've only had a couple snowthrowers so I don't have a lot to draw from. I'm not going to repower a 20 year old machine. But as you mentioned with routine maintenance this should last and I've been able to keep other gear working, and some have been MTD too.

best regards, and Happy Thanksgiving!


----------



## GustoGuy

J_ph said:


> I have a 357cc 26" and it does seems to be a good sturdy machine. It works for me. I think the guys with the 420cc HD model must be having more fun with the larger engine.
> 
> Now that repairclinic.com is starting to handle CubCadet parts and instructional videos that seems to be a plus too.
> 
> I've only had a couple snowthrowers so I don't have a lot to draw from. I'm not going to repower a 20 year old machine. But as you mentioned with routine maintenance this should last and I've been able to keep other gear working, and some have been MTD too.
> 
> best regards, and Happy Thanksgiving!



There is definitely elitism here on the forum were unless you own an Ariens or Honda brand your machine is automatically considered to be of inferior quality. I do like Ariens and Honda snow blowers and they are a very well made snow blower compared to some of the other low price machines, which are available. I myself look at each and every machine that I am considering to buy to see if it will meet my needs. Yes the cheaper low end MTD's are not very nice but some of the $700 plus MTD machines such as the Cub Cadet 3X are of decent quality and should last 10+ to 20 years if maintained properly. I say look closely at each and every machine you are considering to purchase to see if it meets your actual snow removal needs. Factors are how much yearly snow accumulation do you get in the area were you live?. Where I live we get on average about 70 inches of snow per season so a 2 stage is the better choice for me over a single stage machine. How long is your winter and on average how often have you needed to use a snow blower to clear your driveway? More snow and more winter storms per season and a larger area to clear then spend a bit more and get a decent quality 2 stage and definitely look to purchasing a premium brands such as Honda or commercial grade Ariens especialy if the area you live in averages 100+ inches of snow every year. Arien’s and Honda’s are great machines but I would not recommend buying a large expensive commercial grade 2 stage snow blower for some one who lives in an area that doesn’t get much snow accumulation on average or were meteorological winter tends to be short.


----------



## cub cadet 3x

*Cub Cadet 28" HD 420 cc*

I have the cub cadet HD 28" with the 420cc engine, my very first snow blower I've used it twice at first i was unimpressed when trying to do the very slushy snow at driveways end left by the city plow would clog and not throw. but many great minds on here have told me this was the norm with all snow blowers and had remedy's for me to try.
but the driveways and my neighbors driveway she cleared like a charm actually i did 3 neighbors driveways and i did my backyard I've two Basset Puppies 5 months old.
she cleared that no problem i'm very happy with it all i wanted it to do was clear the driveway(s) and she did that and more people told me not to buy an Hyundai back in 2003 but i did and it's still going today a Santa Fe 2003 done the regular maintenance on that myself and she's purring along admit main things like timing belt had done at dealer and had power steering pump changed at dealer the rest i try and do myself. and it hasn't let me down yet and it has 364,000 KM's on the clock.


----------



## sscotsman

GustoGuy said:


> There is definitely elitism here on the forum were unless you own an Ariens or Honda brand your machine is automatically considered to be of inferior quality.


or..instead of elitism, perhaps its just logic, experience and honesty?! 
And its not just Ariens and Honda..people say again and again that they recommend Ariens, Honda, Toro, Yamaha and the Briggs brands..
Its only MTD, Craftsman, and the 100% made in China brand names that are regularly talked down here..and for good reason. 

If a Honda car owner says "dont buy a Kia, Hondas are better", is that elitism? or just the truth? 
some brands _really are_ inferior to others..and its ok to say that.

Scot


----------



## HJames

sscotsman said:


> If a Honda car owner says "dont buy a Kia, Hondas are better", is that elitism? or just the truth?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> some brands _really are_ inferior to others..and its ok to say that.
> 
> Scot



I would say it's just brand favoritism. Even if they owned a Honda and a Kia and they said the Honda was better, we would still only be talking about perceived truth. The majority on this forum would say MTD makes lower quality products than that of Ariens, Toro, and Honda. That doesn't mean it's true, it just implies that the majority perceive it to be true. I have no doubt that a 2014 MTD made Cub Cadet could last 40 years if well cared for and used responsibly, but that's my opinion and shouldn't be misrepresented as fact or truth.


----------



## AriensPro1128

@HJames It is possible to buy 50+ year old Ariens and 40+ year old Toros. That is a fact. Can the same be said of MTD brands? I believe MTD made blowers for Sears in the 90s? How many of those are still functional? Car quality is rated by how many of a given model year are still on the road. The same can be done for snowblowers.


----------



## Normex

MTD made in the 90's were almost on par with Ariens and others. I had a 13 hp 36" from those years and other than regular maintenance I never spent a cent on anything else, sold it to my neighbour 10 yrs ago and it still blows like when first purchased. I guess MTD decided that if you built too good of a thing then the repeat sales suffer as well.


----------



## wdb

LOL, this reminds me of cycling components back in the 1980's. Systems were moving towards "click shift" indexed shifting, and at that time Shimano indexed shifting was vastly superior to Campagnolo. But if you asked a Campagnolo user, well, they had THE BEST and that was all there was to it! 

I have a Honda snowblower. I did not buy it to be elite, I bought it because I wanted a snowblower that would work reliably every time I needed it and possibly be the last snowblower I ever buy. Maybe when I retire and build a garage I will play around with machines as some on this forum do. Until then I just want one, and Honda was the one. If Yamaha still sold in the US though....


----------



## HJames

AriensPro1128 said:


> @HJames It is possible to buy 50+ year old Ariens and 40+ year old Toros. That is a fact. Can the same be said of MTD brands? I believe MTD made blowers for Sears in the 90s? How many of those are still functional? Car quality is rated by how many of a given model year are still on the road. The same can be done for snowblowers.


My point wasn't to compare today's build quality with that of 40 & 50 years ago.There are plenty of 90's era MTDs available on CL and they suffer from the same signs of neglect that you see on similar Ariens, Toro, & Honda models from that era. Build quality has changed industry wide and has gotten cheaper across all brands, thus putting a premium on owner operation and maintenance. Again just my opinion.


----------



## canadagoose

I researched snow blowers for hours and hours. Finally had it down to the Cub Cadet 3X 30 HD and the Husqvarna ST330 P . I did have a Craftsman 11HP 30 inch which served me well for 11 years (regularly maintained) and sold for 1/2 what I originally paid for it. Not bad for an MTD product. I really liked the Cub and was quite intrigued by the 3 stage system . When you think about it , it does make sense. Had Ariens come out with it first , would people be calling it "just a gimmick" . I doubt it. I ended up going with the Husqvarna for $500.00 more but I still think the Cub HD is a well built machine and I hope I don't regret my decision. In an ideal world , we could try these things out side by side to see how they perform against one another in the exact same environment with the same user. However , as this is not possible we rely on the reviews and "opinions" of others. I think any machine that is maintained , including the MTD's , will serve you well. Ariens has different levels of capabilities hence the different prices. So does Husqvarna. So does MTD . It depends what your needs are. Unfortunately , now and then , someone gets a lemon. Same with anything. But an entire brand can't be labeled unreliable because of one lemon. Everyone has lemons. Even Honda and Ariens. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

Hjames, I hear ya and I agree.

As for the 3X time and reviews will tell if it moves more snow or is just a gimmick.
I'm sure someone out there is waiting for a good snow to put a 3X next to a 2 stage of comparable size and show us how they do on youtube !!


----------



## Shryp

I found this on another place. I asked for pictures, but he hasn't gotten back yet.



> My friend the OPE mechanic just got one for repair and it's nasty.
> 
> A small but stiff tree branch got inside the auger and every thing got twisted. That blade got twisted and brought everything with it.
> 
> He said that auger is very cheap and that blade is a joke.
> 
> He waiting for the parts availability and prices from MTD.


----------



## ihscoutlover

greatwhitebuffalo said:


> ihscoutlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a 3x, I feel it's good construction. Sure the impeller can bend, many can. I look at avoiding obstacles altogether. You ask the homeowner ahead of time and try to check your area. Sure you'll miss things, but do you leave big sticks and branches on the ground with your lawn mower?? Same deal. You don't cut on rocks with a chainsaw either. I like the construction of the cub and can't wait to put it through it's paces on snow. I'm pleased with my purchase so far, however not the shipper that delivered it to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm...not a good compare....lawnmower blades hit rocks, but those almost never bend, and are easily re-sharpened. they are replaced once in a while. chain saws, the chain can be sharpened, and is a wearing often replaced part.
> 
> snowblower augers and impellers, are a lifetime machine part, and if those bend, that's trouble- a lot worse than hitting something with a chainsaw or lawnmower.
> 
> the machine needs major surgery if the auger, impeller, shafts are bent
> 
> Problem is I have seen lawnmower blades tore up by stumps and rocks. Seen saw chains tore up by nails and rocks. Yes if you hit something it can cause damage. I was giving my overall impression of what I thought the construction was like. When I have snow that will be the true test. I got mine repaired with factory replacement parts, now Mother Nature has to do her thing....
Click to expand...




sscotsman said:


> ihscoutlover said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a 3x, I feel it's good construction. Sure the impeller can bend, many can. I look at avoiding obstacles altogether. You ask the homeowner ahead of time and try to check your area. Sure you'll miss things, but do you leave big sticks and branches on the ground with your lawn mower?? Same deal. You don't cut on rocks with a chainsaw either. I like the construction of the cub and can't wait to put it through it's paces on snow. I'm pleased with my purchase so far, however not the shipper that delivered it to me.
> 
> 
> 
> hmmm..I dont think you can legitimately say "I feel it's good construction" and "Sure the impeller can bend" in the same sentence!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those are mutually exclusive statements..
> 
> and its not really true that "many can" (bend)..a bent impeller should be an exceedingly rare event..most snowblowers, with normal use, should not even be concerned about bent impellers at all..If you can actually notice that the impeller seems bendable, that's not good, or normal.
> 
> Scot
Click to expand...

I appreciate the misunderstanding that my post caused you. Obviously like above, the impeller is the crucial component to how the unit will work. I feel my purchase was a great one. If this season works well, I may get an Airens and see if it's any better. I'm not advocating mine is better. Simply putting my impression out there. The snow will show the real test.

I have also added an hour meter to mine, so now I've put about 40mins of run time on it, to check all functions and make sure all is well. We now begin the wait....


----------



## greatwhitebuffalo

HJames said:


> My point wasn't to compare today's build quality with that of 40 & 50 years ago.There are plenty of 90's era MTDs available on CL and they suffer from the same signs of neglect that you see on similar Ariens, Toro, & Honda models from that era. Build quality has changed industry wide and has gotten cheaper across all brands, thus putting a premium on owner operation and maintenance. Again just my opinion.



you nailed it there. the quality and design sturdiness has gone down somewhat, across the entire spectrum of machines being made. 
it's due to the nature of the monetary system and Federal Reserve bank, when they create inflation, the companies must cut somewhere to make up for the lower purchasing power of the money they earn- and also the increased labor, materials, legacy, pension, MRO costs, i.e. the inflation the central bank creates to keep itself and its stockholders on top.

just like the company pensions went away and were replaced by lame 401k and IRA plans, the quality diminished in the machines as well.

same thing happened in motor vehicles, less steel, more plastic. less V8's, more 4 cyl. and 6 cyl.

back in the day, a 4 of 6 cyl was considered a low-end, entry level, econo car. 

how it's the norm, and a V8 is for a rich man.

if they got rid of the Federal Reserve, 90% of these problems would disappear, because a dollar earned today, would have the same buying power 20 years from now- or even more buying power.

that's the key. ask yourself WHY they cheapened the products, and WHY they ran offshore to make the products. it was because the money itself was bastardized.


----------



## Kenny kustom

The four and six cylinder engines of today make more power than the V8's of yesterday. 

Has nothing to do with being a rich man.


----------

