# Just got a 624 and have some questinos



## TomB985

*Just got a 624 and have some questions*

Hi everyone,

Just picked up a non-running 624 for $50. I don't know much about them, but I'm a pretty handy guy. Here are some photos:







Can anyone tell me roughly how old this thing may be? Tried starting it up and the engine spins over like there's no compression. Are there any common causes with these engines? I know the OHC engines can have sticky valves.


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## VintageYamaha

Why the **** can't I ever get deals like those? Congrats, you'll get it running in no time!


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## GustoGuy

It is actually an OHV engine. Even if the engine was shot you could put another engine on it. About 350 to 400 dollars for a new Honda engine. For $50 you could take a look at it and see if you can figure out what's wrong with the engine. It could be an easy fix or the engine could be blown but since it is a Honda it will have some value if fixed so it may be worth it to fix it.


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## TomB985

VintageYamaha said:


> Why the **** can't I ever get deals like those? Congrats, you'll get it running in no time!


Thanks! I had a newer Troy-Bilt unit at our last house in Wisconsin but sold it before we moved out to Connecticut last year. I've been missing it ever since last winter and have been eager to find another. 



GustoGuy said:


> It is actually an OHV engine. Even if the engine was shot you could put another engine on it. About 350 to 400 dollars for a new Honda engine. For $50 you could take a look at it and see if you can figure out what's wrong with the engine. It could be an easy fix or the engine could be blown but since it is a Honda it will have some value if fixed so it may be worth it to fix it.


Yeah, I have a pressure washer with a Honda OHC engine. When I was trying to troubleshoot that one for not starting I stumbled upon some cases of valves sticking which caused that. Of course this has a different valvetrain, but I was hoping it may be an easy fix. Unfortunately with my luck it probably won't!


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## db9938

Could it be the decompression mech sticking open?

I agree, great find!


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## Blue Hill

Welcome to the forum Tom! You have A real worthwhile project there.


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## TomB985

Thanks everyone! 



db9938 said:


> Could it be the decompression mech sticking open?


That's my hope, do you know where I can find information on how this thing works? I know most small engines have one, but I don't have a shop manual for this thing. When I get it home this afternoon I'll probably take the valve cover off and observe the valves to see if they're working right. And if they're opening and closing normally I'll be engine shopping!


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## chrisoppie

Start simple or you will have a ton of parts to put back.
Popping the valve cover off is a good start. They generally pullover very easy to begin with. Compression test if you have to tool I think between 75 and 125 is the range not sure. Check spark, see if it will fire on prime, squirt some crab cleaner right down the air box, clean crab if you get fire but no long runs. last I would check the fly wheel key. Good machine I hope you get it in to service with little effort.


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## db9938

TomB985 said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> 
> 
> That's my hope, do you know where I can find information on how this thing works? I know most small engines have one, but I don't have a shop manual for this thing. When I get it home this afternoon I'll probably take the valve cover off and observe the valves to see if they're working right. And if they're opening and closing normally I'll be engine shopping!


Sorry, I don't have that info, but [email protected] frequents the Honda section and is a wealth of knowledge. 

Another thought/question, as you sure that the starter is actually engaging the flywheel?

It looks to have been stored outside, maybe some melted snow found it's way into the pawls of the starter. Besides, taking the shroud off, would not require replacing a gasket. Heck, even if you took it inside and let it warm up, it might resolve itself. I know that its unlikely that easy, but it's worth a shot. 

And boats.net have schematics, and parts for these machines. Good luck.


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## TomB985

chrisoppie said:


> Start simple or you will have a ton of parts to put back.
> Popping the valve cover off is a good start. They generally pullover very easy to begin with. Compression test if you have to tool I think between 75 and 125 is the range not sure. Check spark, see if it will fire on prime, squirt some crab cleaner right down the air box, clean crab if you get fire but no long runs. last I would check the fly wheel key. Good machine I hope you get it in to service with little effort.


Thanks for the suggestions, I'm hoping to take a look either tonight or Tuesday to see what I can figure out. 



db9938 said:


> Another thought/question, as you sure that the starter is actually engaging the flywheel?


Thanks for the suggestion, but this one doesn't have an electric starter. The recoil starter works just fine and spins the engine, but it doesn't feel right to me. Of course I can't say I've started a GX160, but this thing is MUCH easier to turn than my GCV160 in the pressure washer is. 

ON edit: Another question I had is whether or not a GX200 would be an easy swap. I can't find anything online on bolt patterns or critical dimensions to see if this would be an easy thing. Tractor Supply sells a brand-new GX200 for $439, and if it comes to that it would be nice to have some more power.


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## Rockproof

Check below link for all the spec differences between the two. Quick glance looks like the 160 & 200 are very close in dimensions...

http://engines.honda.com/models/


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## bwdbrn1

One of the best investments you could make is to buy yourself a copy of the Honda Shop Manual for that machine.


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## TomB985

No such luck, it's a broken connecting rod. 






Guess I'm engine shopping! Any suggestions?


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## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> No such luck, it's a broken connecting rod.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToFCtaGEIfo&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Guess I'm engine shopping! Any suggestions?


Put a Harbor freight Predator 212cc on it. It will bolt right up and will have a slight amount more horsepower than the original engine. Here is a link to the engine. Much better priced than a brand name Honda engine.
http://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gas-engines/65-hp-212cc-ohv-horizontal-shaft-gas-engine-69730.html

Here is my engine chewing up 11 inches of snow so you can see that it will work well.
Mtd Yardmachine 5/22 repower with Harbor Freight Predator 212cc ...


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## GustoGuy

Part out the Blown Honda engine on eBay and you could get the Predator 212cc for almost free. If you like the Honda Gas tank may actually bolt right on to the Predator 212cc since they have roughly the same exact design and layout and it would almost look like you have a Honda engine on there. I am not sure if the recoil shroud would fit however but you could try but they are decent engines that make good power and run great


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## GustoGuy

If you like some people have used Honda Carburetors on the Predator 212cc and they work great. Otherwise the HF stock one is not bad. It is a non adjustable carburetor and you have to hog out the main jet slightly or they will surge a bit in cold weather. I used super floss and polishing compound and it works awesome.


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## GustoGuy

Is the old engine a GX160? The Gx200 (196cc) or the HF Predator 212cc will bolt up to the same mounting bolts. On average the Predator 212cc has a longer connecting rod and produces more torque and slight amount more HP than a stock Honda GX 200. In fact if you go over to oldminibikes.com where I am also a member you will see that the HF engine can be hopped up with billet forged rod and billet high rpm flywheel and some people have massaged 14hp out of this engine with part mods like 26lbs valve springs and got them to spin at 8000rpm's. I have 3 of these engines and they all work great.


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## db9938

TomB985 said:


> No such luck, it's a broken connecting rod.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToFCtaGEIfo&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Guess I'm engine shopping! Any suggestions?


Yep... well at least it was priced accordingly. 

And Gusto's right, you could sink as much in parts, as you could in an entire new HF engine, that will probably be a bolt in swap, as those are the engines that they clone.


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## GustoGuy

db9938 said:


> Yep... well at least it was priced accordingly.
> 
> And Gusto's right, you could sink as much in parts, as you could in an entire new HF engine, that will probably be a bolt in swap, as those are the engines that they clone.


Plus with a broken connecting rod they usually like to fly up against the crankcase and inside the cylinder wall and tends to do lots of damage so you may need at a minimum a deep hone if your lucky or even an over bore and new piston/rings on the original engine and the rod could have damaged your crankcase and original piston too and your crank bearing could be damaged by debris from the broken rod. It is amazing to see the carnage that can happen inside a motor when it blows. I seen a few crazy thing before at oldminibike.com. Full alcohol or racing gas race cart engines blow pieces of the motor crankcase right off the sides of the engines.


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## db9938

GustoGuy said:


> Plus with a broken connecting rod they usually like to fly up against the crankcase and inside the cylinder wall and tends to do lots of damage so you may need at a minimum a deep hone if your lucky or even an over bore and new piston/rings on the original engine and the rod could have damaged your crankcase and original piston too and your crank bearing could be damaged by debris from the broken rod. It is amazing to see the carnage that can happen inside a motor when it blows. I seen a few crazy thing before at oldminibike.com. Full alcohol or racing gas race cart engines blow pieces of the motor crankcase right off the sides of the engines.


Agreed. 

Tom, I'd strip that Honda down for every spare part that you could. Who knows, the carb, flywheel and gen/alternator may match right up. And it sure would save a few pennies down the road.


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## GustoGuy

db9938 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Tom, I'd strip that Honda down for every spare part that you could. Who knows, the carb, flywheel and gen/alternator may match right up. And it sure would save a few pennies down the road.


 Since Honda sued Lifan who made the old Grey Hound 196cc engine which was an exact copy of the Honda GX200. Loncin Makes the Predator 212cc and they also make engines for Toro snowblowers too. The predator has a larger bore and longer stroke than the Honda GX200. It has a slightly different flywheel taper too. Although it is possible to modify a Honda Flywheel to fit by lapping it according to some sources. The old style Predator may allow a Honda GX200 flywheel to be fitted according to NR Racing

The Carburetor will bolt on but the stock carburetor is good provided you enlarge the main jet a slight amount since it will surge a bit when running in the cold with the stock jetting, Unfortunately the flywheel taper is different on the Predator engine although the Honda flywheel could be lapped to fit it according to NR racing. Boy if that could be done cheap then you would have the electric start ring gear from the Honda. Although I do not miss not having electric start on the Predator 212cc since it always starts in 1 to 2 pulls. Note the charging coil from the Honda may not work with the HF Loncin 212cc. If the engine has a belt driven alternator that would be great since you could make that work.


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## GustoGuy

Do you need electric start? If Not the the HF 212cc is a great swap. I have heard that some people have been able to get this to work on a Predator 212cc with a little bit of work. I do not guarantee that it will work but some people have modified the kit's flywheel to work on the old style Predator 212cc.


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## GustoGuy

Here is a You tube video of a HF Predator 212cc engine with an electric start. Some people say the flywheel doesn't fit quite perfectly but it can be lapped to fit decently.


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## db9938

I stand corrected.


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## chrisoppie

Bummer about the engine man. I don't know of any knock off that will work on the fly for you. the pulley line up is the most important thing next to the bolt up pattern. Then the controls. you might want to visit a local small engine shop and see if they have a used one sitting around. There is nothing like OEM replacements, for fit and finish.


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## GustoGuy

chrisoppie said:


> Bummer about the engine man. I don't know of any knock off that will work on the fly for you. the pulley line up is the most important thing next to the bolt up pattern. Then the controls. you might want to visit a local small engine shop and see if they have a used one sitting around. There is nothing like OEM replacements, for fit and finish.


The Predator will work well as a replacement. You may not get to recycle your electric start and your charging coil. A new Honda engine is pricey and repairing the old one is too in parts alone. The most cost effective replacement is the Harbor Freight Predator however you may have to say goodbye to the electric start. You could part out some stuff on the old engine and have a great machine for next to nothing however.
I would check the internet for a reasonable priced Honda. I not sure about used one. If you can get it cheap all your bolt on stuff will work for sure. Looking at $400+ minus the amount of what ever parts you can sell off your old Honda engine for Honda engine and nearly free for the Predator if you part out your old engine


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## TomB985

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I'm going to go with the predator engine because of the cost. Looks like I could get a brand-new GX160 for around $350, but with a 20% off coupon the Predator could be had for less than $100. Will there be any fitment issues, or should it bolt right up?


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## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice. I think I'm going to go with the predator engine because of the cost. Looks like I could get a brand-new GX160 for around $350, but with a 20% off coupon the Predator could be had for less than $100. Will there be any fitment issues, or should it bolt right up?


Will bolt right up. The GX120 (4 hp), ​_GX160_ (5.5 hp) and ​_GX200_ and pretty much interchangeable. The _bolt pattern is _identical on all 3 engines. The 212cc engine should have at least 1 & 1/2 hp more than the GX160. The thing should be a beast with the 212cc engine. You should look at the gap between your impeller paddles and the drum. If more than 1/4 and inch you could put in an impeller kit too and it will really improve throwing ability.​ ​ I looked closer at your machine and it doesn't have a starter so your all set with the Predator. For some reason I thought your machine was equipped with a starter since most Honda snowblowers I looked at at the Honda house all seemed to have electric start.​


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## db9938

On page 24 you will find the measurements, for the vital fitment questions. 

Predator:
http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/69000-69999/69727.pdf


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## TomB985

GustoGuy said:


> I looked closer at your machine and it doesn't have a starter so your all set with the Predator. For some reason I thought your machine was equipped with a starter since most Honda snowblowers I looked at at the Honda house all seemed to have electric start.


Yeah, I was going to mention that on my last post but work got me sidetracked. Some would say I should have been working instead of posting on here, but that's another matter. 

Picked up a Predator engine this evening for $95 after tax. Couldn't beat the deal, so the project begins tonight!


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## TomB985

*It's all about the SHAFT*

Tonight's progress went pretty quickly until I hit a wall:

Started off by removing the chute rotating thingie:



Then the belt cover...



Removed the top two bolts for the belt guides...



And then loosened the bottom ones to rotate the guides so I could remove the belts:



Cut the kill switch wire, disconnected the throttle, removed the bundle of cables from their spot next to the fuel tank and IT'S OUT:



New engine...SHINY! 



Brother from another mother, the design looks identical:



Unbolt the pulleys, use a pry bar to get the stubborn one off:



And Oh NOOOOOOOO. The shafts are NOT the same! 





All this time I had thought there was some freaking standard they all adhered to. Guess not. 

So NOW what?


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## TomB985

And I also noticed that there was some play when yanking on the transmission pulley. How are these things secured in there?


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## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> Tonight's progress went pretty quickly until I hit a wall:
> 
> Started off by removing the chute rotating thingie:
> 
> 
> 
> Then the belt cover...
> 
> 
> 
> Removed the top two bolts for the belt guides...
> 
> 
> 
> And then loosened the bottom ones to rotate the guides so I could remove the belts:
> 
> 
> 
> Cut the kill switch wire, disconnected the throttle, removed the bundle of cables from their spot next to the fuel tank and IT'S OUT:
> 
> 
> 
> New engine...SHINY!
> 
> 
> 
> Brother from another mother, the design looks identical:
> 
> 
> 
> Unbolt the pulleys, use a pry bar to get the stubborn one off:
> 
> 
> 
> And Oh NOOOOOOOO. The shafts are NOT the same!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All this time I had thought there was some freaking standard they all adhered to. Guess not.
> 
> So NOW what?


I had to put new pulleys on both of my Predator engine re-powers. One was a Tecumseh 5hp and the other was a Briggs and Stratton 8hp. The Predator uses a 3/4 inch diameter PTO and it looks like the old Honda GX160 that was on the snowblower was a 1 inch? boy I thought it would have been a 3/4 inch too since the Honda GX 200 also has a 3/4 inch PTO shaft. 
Shyrp got his pulley's here Pulleys & Idlers | Lawn Mower Parts | MFG Supply

and I got my pulley's here. https://www.phoenix-mfg.com/index.p...id=89&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=56&lang=en
_It was easy to put the new pulleys on and it looks like Shyrp's pulleys are a bit better priced then the ones I bought from Phoenix. MY 2 3 inch 3/4 bore steel pulleys cost me $36.98 with shipping since they charged $13.78 to ship them to me_

*Order Items* Quantity Name SKU Price Subtotal 2 3" Drive Pulley (Bore Size: 3/4) 1300 $11.60 $23.20 SubTotal : $23.20 Shipping and Handling Fee : $13.78 Tax Total : $0.00 *Total: *$36.98


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## GustoGuy

It looks like your belt tensioner(s) will be reusable as well. I would not worry too much about having to replace the stock Honda drive pulleys because most people have to replace the stock ones anyway. I was surprised to see that the Honda had a thicker PTO shaft than the Predator 212cc did. Must be a 1 inch shaft instead of a 3/4 inch shaft. Both Shryp and I needed new drive pulleys to re-power our snow blowers. On my MTD I need 2 steel drive (3/4 bore) pulleys and I also bought a larger 8 & 1/2 inch diameter MTD Lower friction plate to replace the 6.25 inch diameter one and now I have 3 very usable speeds to blow my driveway. Yes it was a little difficult and I had to flip my transmission and cut and re-weld the shift swing arm so it goes the opposite way but it was worth it since I have a nice reliable snow blower now that always starts in 1 to 2 pulls of the recoil. 
The new engine will make for great thrower provided you put in an impeller kit. What is the diameter of the stock PTO auger drive pulley? You could slightly increase the size and it could really make your machine into a powerful thrower. Not really a roadblock, just a small speed bump that is not to hard to find a solution for..


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## GustoGuy

19.050mm is equal to 0.75 inch and 25.4mm is equal to 1inch shaft. So they are both 3/4 inch. The 3/4 inch bore pulleys should have a locking hex drive nut and key and is the key area the same size on both engines? If so you should still be able to use your pulleys. The 3/4 inch pulleys that I bought fit snugly on my Predator 212cc PTO shaft
20.07-19.87 = 1.1mm difference
Sort of bigger than I thought it would be 3/4 inch is exactly equal to 19.050mm so both are slightly bigger with the Honda being off more than the Predator 212cc.


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## TomB985

I spent lots of time last night researching this and I think I've got it figured out. 



GustoGuy said:


> 19.050mm is equal to 0.75 inch and 25.4mm is equal to 1inch shaft. So they are both 3/4 inch.


No they're not. Looks like some Honda engines and equipment came with a 20mm shaft. They are somewhat rare compared to 3/4" shaft engines, and to find another GX160 that has a 20mm shaft is over $400. The stock pulleys don't have the locking screw, and even if they did there's no way I would use them on a smaller shaft. That 1mm difference would mean that they would always be off center, and that could do some ugly things over time. 

Looks like new pulleys shouldn't be a big deal though. Tractor Supply sells pulleys that should work. The impeller drive pulley is 3", and the transmission pulley is 3.2". So I think I can pick up some 3" pulleys and some thrust washers for spacing and get everything to line up just fine. The only downside is that the new engine has a shaft longer by 1/2", and hopefully that won't contact the belt guard. I have a drill for that eventuality. Hopefully I'll be in business this evening. 

I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!


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## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> I spent lots of time last night researching this and I think I've got it figured out.
> 
> 
> 
> No they're not. Looks like some Honda engines and equipment came with a 20mm shaft. They are somewhat rare compared to 3/4" shaft engines, and to find another GX160 that has a 20mm shaft is over $400. The stock pulleys don't have the locking screw, and even if they did there's no way I would use them on a smaller shaft. That 1mm difference would mean that they would always be off center, and that could do some ugly things over time.
> 
> Looks like new pulleys shouldn't be a big deal though. Tractor Supply sells pulleys that should work. The impeller drive pulley is 3", and the transmission pulley is 3.2". So I think I can pick up some 3" pulleys and some thrust washers for spacing and get everything to line up just fine. The only downside is that the new engine has a shaft longer by 1/2", and hopefully that won't contact the belt guard. I have a drill for that eventuality. Hopefully I'll be in business this evening.
> 
> I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!


 Both my re-powers were strange too. With the MTD the Tecumseh shaft was longer than the Predator and there were 2 shafts (cam and PtO) and the cam ran the drive and rotated in a reverse direction at 1/2 the speed. I got around that by flipping the lower auger pulley since it was offset by 3/4 of an inch it worked perfectly. In the Briggs my Predator shaft was longer by about 1/2 inch too. However the belt cover had more than enough room to accommodate the difference in length. 

It looks like you will be fine since you will be able to place the pulley in the exact position with the set screw. As to the set bolt and washer on the end if the PTO shaft since it extended beyond the center of the auger pulley it will not even be needed or you could use a bolt with a recessed head and a hex drive and some washers to soak up the slack between the last pulley and the end of the PTO. Either way I think you will be fine. You will love the power of the 212cc verses the stock engine 160cc. It will be a beast. My Predator 212cc has just as much power as the old Briggs 8hp (319cc) and uses less gas too.


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## TomB985

WoHOOOOOOOO! It LIVES! 

Got some 3.5" pulleys today with 3/4" inside diamater this morning. Bolted the engine on, installed the pulleys...





Bolted the side bracket onto the new engine. This shows just how much of a clone this thing really is:



Install the chute turning apparatus:



And it WORKS!


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## TomB985

Not everything is rosy though, the impeller and auger assembly is making an awful racket at low RPMs and is moving in and out a good half an inch. What does this look like to you guys? What do I need to replace here? 






Here's another view of the pulley, notice how it moves in and out:


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## Rockproof

That would be a bent auger shaft...


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## Rockproof

Seems like you handled the engine swap great (with excellent6 pictorial and video...thanks)...now you might be getting into the tough stuff. With the bent auger shaft, I'll bet you a dollar one or both of the augers is frozen (with rust) onto the shaft. First step is to get the augers off. Next, either get the shaft straightened (at a machine shop) or buy a new shaft. It's a good thing your auger gearbox isn't split...

If it's any consolation, you still got a great deal and are still way ahead of the game...


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## Rockproof

Just as a heads up, what probably happened with the previous owner was they never lubed the augers and shaft. Time, water, and probably some salt resulted in the auger and shaft getting fused with rust. Once that happens, your shear pins can't function. When an obstruction is encountered and the shears can't break, something else in the blower usually does. In your case, it seems like the auger shaft bent. Most of the cases where this happens, the gear case usually blows...

Check this video out...


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## TomB985

Rockproof said:


> That would be a bent auger shaft...


****...I'm confused looking at the parts diagrams. Which part do I need here?


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## Rockproof

Not sure which model 624 you have. I think regardless, you are looking at Part # 1 here: All Years HS624K1 WA-A SNOW BLOWER, JPN Honda Snowblower AUGER TRANSMISSION Diagram and Parts


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## Rockproof

It's either a bent #1 (shaft) or something else is bent in the auger box. The newer Hondas no longer have a shaft all the way through the auger...That said, it may be a bent auger or something else...

Before I ordered anything, I would start dismantling the auger and check everything for trueness...then replace or repair from there as needed...just my $.02. All of this is assuming you want many more years out of the blower. If you don't care, I would say it is still usable...just know that the next obstruction hit could be the end of that poor girl with a blown gearbox...and all of that wobble is prematurely wearing many other parts of the blower...


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## TomB985

Rockproof said:


> It's either a bent #1 (shaft) or something else is bent in the auger box. The newer Hondas no longer have a shaft all the way through the auger...That said, it may be a bent auger or something else...
> 
> Before I ordered anything, I would start dismantling the auger and check everything for trueness...then replace or repair from there as needed...just my $.02. All of this is assuming you want many more years out of the blower. If you don't care, I would say it is still usable...just know that the next obstruction hit could be the end of that poor girl with a blown gearbox...and all of that wobble is prematurely wearing many other parts of the blower...


Just came up from the garage doing just that. Looks like part of the bent shaft is broken off inside one of the augers. Once I had the impeller and auger assembly out I started it up and engaged the drive, and sure enough that wailing noise is still there so it looks like she needs an impeller shaft bearing. 

From what I can tell it'll be in great working order at that point. The engine is brand new and seems to be functioning well in its new home, and the transmission seems to be acting just fine without any detectable leaks. So once I get the auger drive straightened out it should be good for quite awhile.


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## Rockproof

Were you able to get the augers off of the shaft?


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## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> Just came up from the garage doing just that. Looks like part of the bent shaft is broken off inside one of the augers. Once I had the impeller and auger assembly out I started it up and engaged the drive, and sure enough that wailing noise is still there so it looks like she needs an impeller shaft bearing.
> 
> From what I can tell it'll be in great working order at that point. The engine is brand new and seems to be functioning well in its new home, and the transmission seems to be acting just fine without any detectable leaks. So once I get the auger drive straightened out it should be good for quite awhile.


Awesome. I am watching this restore closely and I still feel you got a good deal. Hopefully you will be able to straighten or repair any of the damages done to the auger drive assembly. Like he said take the entire auger drive and impeller assembly out and remove the rakes and see what is bent. I would then use some emery paper or very fine sand paper to clean up the auger drives so when you install the rakes on it a gain they will moves freely. Grease them up with a good marine grade grease since you will want to prevent rust. Hopefully part of the wobble is do to the impeller shaft bearing being bad. If that is the case a new bearing will snug that up real good and will hopefully get rid of much of the wobble. If you can remove the drive shafts from the gear box you should be able to determine were the bend is and maybe straiten it out with a large vise and some blocks of wood to force it straight again. Like Rockproof said they most likely they let the rakes rust on to the shaft and then they hit something and it bent the shaft. Thankfully it did not blow the gear box. This pulsating in and out with the auger assembly coupled with hitting some Ice or an object or blowing really heavy snow could have contributed to the connecting rod failure due to the excessive load on the engine. When your done you will have a really nice snowblower and I bet you could part out that old engine and get a good chunk of your money back on the Predator 212cc Hopefully you will not need to buy anything other than bearings and bushings and straighten the shafts. I would check the rakes too since if they are bent then can cause pulsing too. Good luck
Mark


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## TomB985

Rockproof said:


> Were you able to get the augers off of the shaft?


 Nope. One side had part of the shaft broken off and frozen in it, and the other side is still attached to the gearbox; it won't budge. I soaked both in PB blaster and will let them sit overnight. I plan on buying some 1/4" steel rod that I can put through the hole at the end and whack with a hammer. Thinking I may be able to beat it out from the inside...do you know if they are hollow all the way through? 



GustoGuy said:


> Awesome. I am watching this restore closely and I still feel you got a good deal. Hopefully you will be able to straighten or repair any of the damages done to the auger drive assembly. Like he said take the entire auger drive and impeller assembly out and remove the rakes and see what is bent. I would then use some emery paper or very fine sand paper to clean up the auger drives so when you install the rakes on it a gain they will moves freely. Grease them up with a good marine grade grease since you will want to prevent rust. Hopefully part of the wobble is do to the impeller shaft bearing being bad. If that is the case a new bearing will snug that up real good and will hopefully get rid of much of the wobble. If you can remove the drive shafts from the gear box you should be able to determine were the bend is and maybe straiten it out with a large vise and some blocks of wood to force it straight again. Like Rockproof said they most likely they let the rakes rust on to the shaft and then they hit something and it bent the shaft. Thankfully it did not blow the gear box. This pulsating in and out with the auger assembly coupled with hitting some Ice or an object or blowing really heavy snow could have contributed to the connecting rod failure due to the excessive load on the engine. When your done you will have a really nice snowblower and I bet you could part out that old engine and get a good chunk of your money back on the Predator 212cc Hopefully you will not need to buy anything other than bearings and bushings and straighten the shafts. I would check the rakes too since if they are bent then can cause pulsing too. Good luck
> Mark


Thanks Mark. Sadly parts for this beast just aren't cheap; I'm going to need the auger shaft($65) and three oil seals($10/each). Of course that's assuming I can get the augers off the shaft, if not those will be $140/each. I don't see myself giving up on those...

We'll see what tomorrow brings. I love tinkering with stuff so perhaps I'll slip away from the family on Christmas and see about those augers.


----------



## Rockproof

Wait...I posted the wrong video for you earlier. Sorry. *Watch the below 3 Part Series from Dontyboy73*. I am certain your 624 auger and gearbox are set up the same as the Honda in the below video. These three vids will walk you though the entire process (including heating the augers which you will probably have to do to free them from the shaft...I had to use an Oxy Acetylene to free mine when I restored my HS80)

Watch this:


----------



## db9938

I would agree.


----------



## GustoGuy

Here is part 2 of 3.

I watched it and since you do not have to replace the gear case yours should be a much cheaper repair. I would replace all the bearings for sure since you will never want to take this thing apart again for a good long time. A little PB blaster when removing the Shear pin which ironically attaches to the large metal piece he had to pull off the shaft. Remove that and the auger will spin. Simply remove it once per year and use PB blaster and spin and spray until is spins good. then re-install the shear pin and you are good for another year or two. 







Here is part 3/3


----------



## TomB985

Yeah, I watched those videos yesterday which gave me the urge to take the auger assembly apart. Of course I stopped the video and went into the garage before seeing the tech struggle with the auger shafts. I'm going to order parts this evening and hopefully get this thing finished up by next week. 

My two priorities are getting this done quickly and correctly. I'm renting the house I'm in right now, so it's possible I won't need it for more than this winter if the landlord can sell the place. Because of that I'm trying to get this thing functioning as close to perfect as possible to protect resale if that happens. Hopefully it's worth $4-500 once I'm done rebuilding the gear box. If not, it still beats shoveling! 

I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!


----------



## TomB985

Just ordered some parts. Have a new auger shaft coming as well as all three oil seals for the gear box. I'm also replacing the impeller shaft bearing because it's making lots of noise. Hopefully this $100 parts order is all I'll need to get it going. Hard to believe these few parts cost more than the engine I just installed.


----------



## TomB985

Well that was fun. The shaft siezed into those augers is really giving me a lot of trouble. Tonight I picked up a 4' section of 1/4" steel rod to attempt beating the shaft out of the augers from the inside. I started with the one with the broken off section by cutting a section of rod long enough to give me a few inches to beat on:



I got nowhere by just beating on the rod, so I got my air hammer and used that to beat the broken rod further into the auger. Flipped it over and beat it back to where it was. I repeated this a few times before realizing there was a ridge preventing the stub from coming out. So I forced it further in and ground it down with my Dremel. Next round of whacks going the right way forced it right out: 

That took me about 50 minutes. 

Next up is the one still attached to the gear box. After an unsuccessful attempt with a hack saw to cut the gear box free I got out my cutoff tool and attempted to make a makeshift bolt head:



I then got my Gator Grip and impact gun and went to work:





I reefed on that sucker for a good 5 minutes with the impact, going back and forth. I was able to get it to rotate a few degrees one way and then back, but that's as far as I got before this happened:



That's all for tonight. My parts are on order but they haven't shipped yet so I have a few days to figure this out. I'm in a bit of a pickle because the auger that's still stuck is on the side that has to be pulled through the gearbox during disassembly. Worst case scenario I'll get a new hack saw blade and cut it off flush and air hammer the sucker into the tube where it will stay forever. I'm certain I can push it back far enough to give the new shaft enough clearance to mount up right. 

The only casualties of my fun tonight were the integrity of the threads on the auger I first attacked. The bolt won't thread anymore, but tomorrow I'll take it to a hardware store and buy a tap to chase the threads and clean things up.


----------



## Rockproof

Keep us posted...

What I finally had to resort to with mine was heat and a whole lot of it....If comes down to no other option and you don't have an acetylene torch, take it to someone who does. After wasting days trying to free up my rust frozen augers on my HS80, I took it to my stepfather who has a torch. IN 5 MINUTES WE WERE DONE....the auger was free from the shaft and I was able to reuse both pieces.


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## db9938

Wow, I'll drink a beer for you. That definitely qualifies as "one of those days."


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## GustoGuy

Yes, Heat the thing until it breaks free. Since your auger shaft is already damaged you will be able to heat it up or even cut it off and pound out the cut piece. It is terrible how rust can badly damage equipment. What year is this Honda? I guess I am lucky because I live on a side road and they never salt the road right in front of my house and my augers were super easy to take off. I live at my home since 1997 and my machine is a 1996 and it looks almost like new since I do not have to deal with heavy road salted snow. It is too bad since Honda machines are top of the line. It seems like you will need to do routine maintenance on the augers by spraying them with PB blaster and spinning them on the shaft and then tightening the shear bolt. Hopefully you will be able to remove the shaft and the bearings easily but by judging the amount of rust on the augers it may be lots of work. Well when you are done it will hopefully be like a new machine and you will be able to make a little money on it if you decide to sell it.


----------



## Blue Hill

Like others have said Tom, you need heat and lots of it. Failing that, an old millwright trick that might help uses two hammers. A good heavy one one one side of the tube as a backup and firm but not crazy blows on the opposite side. Work your way all around the tube doing this a few times. Lots of penetrating oil. Somewhere on this forum a thread discussed the effectiveness of penetrating oils and apparently, a 50/50 mix of acetone and power steering fluid is supposed to be hands down better than any of the commercial brands. Bokoo flammable though. 
I was a millwright for 35 years at a Morton salt plant, so I've seen rusted up parts a time or two.


----------



## TomB985

Blech...looks like my parts aren't going to ship until Friday. Of course we're supposed to get a snow storm on that same day. 

Tomorrow I'm going to see about cutting the shaft off at the gear box so I can get some better leverage without risking that expen$ive aluminum housing. If that's impractical I may just take the darn thing to my local small engine repair shop and see what they'd charge to remove it. I don't have an acetylene torch, and I have no desire to buy one with how infrequently I'd ever use it. 

I appreciate all the suggestions. I like the hammer idea Blue Hill, but that would be really hard to pull off with the shape of these things. We'll see, I'm gonna beat this thing one way or another. 

The last couple of days I've been sidetracked by my other winter acquisition, a '97 Lincoln. Gonna take the driveshaft in for balancing tomorrow, and after that I can focus again on the blower.


----------



## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> Blech...looks like my parts aren't going to ship until Friday. Of course we're supposed to get a snow storm on that same day.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm going to see about cutting the shaft off at the gear box so I can get some better leverage without risking that expen$ive aluminum housing. If that's impractical I may just take the darn thing to my local small engine repair shop and see what they'd charge to remove it. I don't have an acetylene torch, and I have no desire to buy one with how infrequently I'd ever use it.
> 
> I appreciate all the suggestions. I like the hammer idea Blue Hill, but that would be really hard to pull off with the shape of these things. We'll see, I'm gonna beat this thing one way or another.
> 
> The last couple of days I've been sidetracked by my other winter acquisition, a '97 Lincoln. Gonna take the driveshaft in for balancing tomorrow, and after that I can focus again on the blower.


Good idea to cut off the shaft right were it slides into the auger and then when your parts arrive take it apart and throw away the cut off rusted piece. As to the augers you can heat them up and beat on them pretty hard with out problems how ever you can't do that on an aluminum gear house casting that is hollow.


----------



## snow80

Rockproof said:


> What I finally had to resort to with mine was heat and a whole lot of it....If comes down to no other option and you don't have an acetylene torch, take it to someone who does.


My HS80 also had a frozen augur shaft when i bought it. The oxy acetylene trick was the only thing that worked. The auger had to be heated to a nice red heat, with a large gear puller applied, before it came loose. The auger shaft also turned out to be slightly bent, so that had to be straightened, too. 

It's run great for the next 2 years. It is amazing how much damage a little rust can do to a nice machine. I added some grease fittings to the augers to prevent this in the future.


----------



## GustoGuy

snow80 said:


> My HS80 also had a frozen augur shaft when i bought it. The oxy acetylene trick was the only thing that worked. The auger had to be heated to a nice red heat, with a large gear puller applied, before it came loose. The auger shaft also turned out to be slightly bent, so that had to be straightened, too.
> 
> It's run great for the next 2 years. It is amazing how much damage a little rust can do to a nice machine. I added some grease fittings to the augers to prevent this in the future.


Great idea. those grease fittings are cheap and you can get a drill and make a hole and tap it with the threads on the fitting. pump in a squirt of grease every once in a while and they will never be frozen on with rust


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## TomB985

I like the grease fitting idea, I'll have to take a look at doing that once I get this thing running. I stopped by my local Honda dealer this morning and asked about those parts. They can't help me; they quoted me over $120 for the shaft and they couldn't get it before the middle of next week! Looks like I'm weathering this storm without my "new" blower. 

This brightened my day though: 



This is a shiny new HS724 on sale at the Honda dealer. Look closely at the price tag, that sucker goes for $2,189! After seeing that, waiting a few days just doesn't seem so bad anymore. I have $275 invested after this parts order.


----------



## Rockproof

Ahhh...I love Honda snowblower porn...IMHO she's the sexiest snow cannon out there


----------



## db9938

I know that feeling. When I walked into my Honda dealership to order parts, it was a bit of a relief to spend a few bucks in lieu of a few thousand. Now, it's the first machine I break out.


----------



## TomB985

What amazes me is how little has changed over the years The only visible difference between that machine is the larger 200cc engine and the supporting bracket for the auger. I believe mine to be around 20 years old. Of course my upgraded 212cc Chinese knockoff negates the engine size advantage of the brand-new machine. 

Perhaps if mine had the now-standard gearbox brace the shaft wouldn't have bent.


----------



## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> What amazes me is how little has changed over the years The only visible difference between that machine is the larger 200cc engine and the supporting bracket for the auger. I believe mine to be around 20 years old. Of course my upgraded 212cc Chinese knockoff negates the engine size advantage of the brand-new machine.
> 
> Perhaps if mine had the now-standard gearbox brace the shaft wouldn't have bent.


Your machine should function as well a new model that has the 196cc engine rather than the smaller 160cc. Good torque means good throwing and and the ability to really chew through the deep snow


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## celltech

Subscribed. This is a really fun thread to follow. Tom, can't wait to see the video when it's all done throwing snow!


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## db9938

TomB985 said:


> What amazes me is how little has changed over the years The only visible difference between that machine is the larger 200cc engine and the supporting bracket for the auger. I believe mine to be around 20 years old. Of course my upgraded 212cc Chinese knockoff negates the engine size advantage of the brand-new machine.
> 
> Perhaps if mine had the now-standard gearbox brace the shaft wouldn't have bent.


If my memory serves me correctly, Canadian models have always had those supports. I believe that it had something to do with consumer protection.


----------



## TomB985

GustoGuy said:


> Your machine should function as well a new model that has the 196cc engine rather than the smaller 160cc. Good torque means good throwing and and the ability to really chew through the deep snow


I'm optimistic. My last blower was a much newer 30" Troy Bilt with the 357cc engine. Of course I don't expect this thing to be that powerful, but with the narrower track and similar size impeller I think it'll be able to move pretty quickly. 



celltech said:


> Subscribed. This is a really fun thread to follow. Tom, can't wait to see the video when it's all done throwing snow!


Thanks celltech, I hope to be posting that video by next week! 



db9938 said:


> If my memory serves me correctly, Canadian models have always had those supports. I believe that it had something to do with consumer protection.


Huh, interesting. I would really like to know exactly how old this thing is, but the closest I can get is the model within a huge range of serial numbers. That puts it between '92-'96. All the parts diagrams have that brace, as do the brand-new one I saw at the dealer yesterday.


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## TomB985

*And SUCCESS!*

After removing the driveshaft on my other winter project I decided to take a quick whack at the frozen auger shaft. I figured I would start with the air hammer I got for Christmas in an attempt to break it free by forcing the shaft deeper into the auger. Much to my surprise I was able to force it a full inch deeper in seconds. Loves me some power tools...the line is where the chisel was hitting. 



Now that it was broken free I set the whole assembly on some jack stands and got to work with my rod and hammer. Less than three minutes later this was the result:



Yeah, my garage is a mess. You'll see the rod poking through where the auger shaft once was, and the gearbox is nicely separated laying on the ground. 

Here's the offending shaft:



Note how the copious amounts of PB B'laster I sprayed on either side did not penetrate the rust. Here's another shot of the gear box ready for disassembly! 



Over the weekend I'll disassemble the gear box and post lots of pictures. I've never done this kind of thing before, but it looks like a really simple affair.


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## Thump_rrr

My suggestion for freeing up rusted auger shafts is to put some Kano kroil in through the bearing bolts on the ends of the auger shaft and stand the auger assembly on end for 24 hours.
Once it's apart and clean never seize everything before assembling it.
The point is moot in this case since the shaft is broken.

Can't wait to see the finished project.


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## Rockproof

Awsome. Hard part is over. Now you just have to wait for the parts...


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## TomB985

Today I picked up a cheap tap and die set from Harbor Freight to clean up the threads I mangled with my hammer and rod routine last week. Worked like a charm, and the 8x1.50 bolt again screws in without issue. 



That was my last concern with the augers. Just need some parts and she'll be back together in an hour or two.


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## TomB985

Today has been a good day despite the lack of sleep. New baby was born this morning without issues , and I found out my snow blower parts will be here tomorrow. A day late of course with the snow storm ending today, but I hope to be able to clean up after the plow guy by tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## celltech

TomB985 said:


> Today has been a good day despite the lack of sleep. New baby was born this morning without issues , and I found out my snow blower parts will be here tomorrow. A day late of course with the snow storm ending today, but I hope to be able to clean up after the plow guy by tomorrow afternoon.


Congrats on the new baby!!!! Lack of sleep will be the norm now.


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## db9938

Congrats!

Sleep... it's over rated, you might get some in two to four years though....


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## TomB985

My wife and son came home from the hospital today. Just in time for 60° and melting snow. Won't last though, supposed to be down to 8° this evening. 

And no parts yet either. No clue what's going on, on Friday the tracking website said it would be there Saturday. Now it says "N/A" for estimated delivery date. 

https://www.fedex.com/fedextrack/?tracknumbers=136912170971605


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## Shryp

I wonder if they are having weather delays. Sucks when that happens. I know I ordered something a few weeks ago and it took forever.


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## celltech

TomB985 said:


> My wife and son came home from the hospital today. Just in time for 60° and melting snow. Won't last though, supposed to be down to 8° this evening.
> 
> And no parts yet either. No clue what's going on, on Friday the tracking website said it would be there Saturday. Now it says "N/A" for estimated delivery date.
> 
> https://www.fedex.com/fedextrack/?tracknumbers=136912170971605



I would give anything for 60 degrees. It's -25 here with a -55 below windchill.


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## TomB985

Just to update this thread, my parts arrived and I've disassembled lots more. 

Started off removing the blower assembly to replace the impeller shaft bearing. 





Got the old bearing removed and it's definitely the source of my wailing nose. The bearing feels gritty when you spin it, not smooth at all. Glad to hear I ordered the right part for a change. At this point of the day my parts hadn't arrived yet, so after reading Twig's thread about the transmission I decided to dig further to see why mine was loose. That thang takes a LOT of disassembly to get to. 

Shiny new engine OUT, and some unbolting and prying on the frame to get here:



Only to realize the **** transmission mount rides in some bushings that allow for said play. The bolts were tight; as close as I can tell this play is as designed.  Ended up putting the frame and engine back together without changing anything. At this point my parts arrived, but I decided to replace the auger drive belt because it was pretty badly gone. So I left the blower housing off and went to the gear box, and I'm now at an impasse. Don's video on Youtube is spectacular, but it shows nothing on how to disassemble an intact gear box. I removed the rubber cap on one end of the auger shaft and am staring at an oil seal that I have no clue how to safely remove. 

Robert! Heeelp!


----------



## Rockproof

Oil seals are compression fit into the aluminum gearbox halves from the inside. Once you completely dismantle the gear case, you can knock the seals out. Use a wooden dowel (or something of similar diameter) and gently tap the seals out from the outside (tapping inward). Reverse process for new seals...must be inserted from the inside (and tapped into place with same dowel) I am almost certain that Donnyboy shows that on one of those three videos though...you may want to watch them again.,..


----------



## TomB985

Rockproof said:


> Oil seals are compression fit into the aluminum gearbox halves from the inside. Once you completely dismantle the gear case, you can knock the seals out. Use a wooden dowel (or something of similar diameter) and gently tap the seals out from the outside (tapping inward). Reverse process for new seals...must be inserted from the inside (and tapped into place with same dowel) I am almost certain that Donnyboy shows that on one of those three videos though...you may want to watch them again.,..


I've watched them a few times, but that's not gonna work. I just went down and took some pictures. 

Here's what I'm staring at now:







Now UNDER the exposed seal in the first photo should be this(screen grab from donyboy73):



That snap ring retains the whole thing. The other side is much smaller, and so both seals and bearings have to come out from the side with the currently exposed seal. So I need to find some way to remove the seal, then the snap ring, and then find a way to push the bearings from the inside out.


----------



## Rockproof

Hmmm...sorry, the previously described method for replacing oil seals worked for my HS80. Obviously different from yours. You may have to wait for [email protected] to reply on this one. Maybe you could PM him? He will often pull a few pages from the equipment shop manuals to help people out...


----------



## db9938

Tom, I know that this is becoming expensive, but you may have to sacrifice that seal. I can not see a way to reach the snap ring without doing that.


----------



## TomB985

db9938 said:


> Tom, I know that this is becoming expensive, but you may have to sacrifice that seal. I can not see a way to reach the snap ring without doing that.


I'm not coming up with a better alternative either. Which is fine because I was planning for that when I ordered parts. I have three new seals that came with my new shaft. I can't figure out how I would go about grabbing the bearing once I do that though. 

I'm thinking I may be able to force the shaft outward once I remove the snap ring. Of course that concerns me because I read you're not supposed to force a bearing by the inner race, which the splines of the shaft would surely be pushing on. I'm trying to figure out what the "correct" method would be.


----------



## db9938

I'd be very patient, with a light touch to that bearing, or you could use the floor, and allow inertia to allow it to fall free. Especially when you do not have to be concerned with damaging the auger shaft. 

Heck, I'd use the seal on the end of the shaft, to cushion it's fall.

On a crazier thought, I'd give it a whack at tying to remove the seals as well... May not work, but if it did, bonus.


----------



## [email protected]

TomB985 said:


> I removed the rubber cap on one end of the auger shaft and am staring at an oil seal that I have no clue how to safely remove.
> 
> Robert! Heeelp!


PM sent; check your inbox, Tom.


----------



## TomB985

db9938 said:


> I'd be very patient, with a light touch to that bearing, or you could use the floor, and allow inertia to allow it to fall free. Especially when you do not have to be concerned with damaging the auger shaft.
> 
> Heck, I'd use the seal on the end of the shaft, to cushion it's fall.
> 
> On a crazier thought, I'd give it a whack at tying to remove the seals as well... May not work, but if it did, bonus.





[email protected] said:


> PM sent; check your inbox, Tom.


Thanks guys! 

I'll be giving it a shot this afternoon. Should be up and running this evening if all goes well.


----------



## TomB985

*WoooooooHOOOOOOO!*

And SUCCESS! 

Started this afternoon on the gear box. That seal took me a few minutes, every stab I took was met with metallic resistance. I picked up the brand-new seal and discovered there was a metal ring that's part of the outside of the seal, but it doesn't come in close to the shaft. I tried with a screwdriver and got no leverage, so I attempted levering it out with my Leatherman. Whoops...



We're gonna see just how good their 25-year warranty is. 

Success was had with the needlenose pliers. It took a significant amount of force to lever this thing out. 



Here's a blurry shot of what lies beneath. 



I fought with my cheapie Harbor Freight snap ring pliers for nearly 5 minutes to get that bugger out. Note to self: Get some respectable pliers! Once that was out I placed the oppposite end of the shaft on the bench and pushed down on the gearcase. It took very little force and the shaft came through with the outside bearing:





Wow that was easy. The inside bearing and seal remained stationary, and I saw no particular reason to fix what wasn't broken. Didn't want to risk damaging the bearing, so I ad to bust out my Dremel to mill down the edges of the broken end. 



The gears look pristine. You could wipe them down and never tell the difference between brand new parts. Truly impressive for a machine as neglected as this one was. 







Looks like the new shaft, even though a superceded part, is different from this one. I suspect the reduced diameter ~1" inside the shaft ends gives the augers less surface area to seize to. 



Ended up using the handle for my floor jack as a bearing press. I KNOW, you're not supposed to press on the inner race. But it took very little force, and the only way to remove the stoopid thing was from the inner race. I'm sure it's fine. 





So my genius self forgot to order a cover gasket. On PITA repairs I'm willing to spend top dollar on parts and wait the ~2 weeks for them to arrive, but this is a pretty accessible part. So I was willing to take the chance with some RTV silicone over the existing gasket. I screwed the cover on, filled it with oil, and checked for leaks. 



After an hour or so while I jacked around with the blower housing no leaks were present, so I'm happy with it. Spent the next 45 minutes or so reassembling the impeller and auger assemblies taking care to not get the augers backwards. Two of the sheer pins weren't able to be reused, so I ended up using machine screws from the cheap kit I had on the shelf. This gets it snow-worthy, and I'll order some new pins when I get the chance. 

Started it up and ran it for a few seconds, and she runs great. Some slight metallic noise at low speed, but nothing concerning to me. Interestingly there is still some light movement at the gearbox while it's spinning, which means one of my augers must be tweaked a bit. Whatever, I just don't care that much. With a straight auger shaft and only slight movement it's not going to hurt anything. 

WOOOOOHOOOOO!


----------



## db9938

Great job!

Are you by any chance going to perform an autopsy on the old block?


----------



## Fred9

WOW! Very impressed you got it back together AND RUNNING so quickly!!!


----------



## TomB985

db9938 said:


> Great job!
> 
> Are you by any chance going to perform an autopsy on the old block?





Fred9 said:


> WOW! Very impressed you got it back together AND RUNNING so quickly!!!


Thanks guys! 

An autopsy of the old engine is planned, not sure of exactly when though. 

All in all I have $280 invested in this thing. $50 to purchase, $100 for expen$ive Honda parts, $100 for the engine, and $30 in miscellaneous stuff like pulleys. I might have to start scouring CL for other stuff with blown up engines.


----------



## Rockproof

Awesome job and great pictorial of you progression Tom. Thanks. I can't wait to see that thing in action. Please post a video of her destroying some snow when you get a chance...


----------



## dbert

I think you should ask the moderators to change the thread title from 
Just got a 624 and have some questions
to
Take a look at all this awesomely documented work I've done to my fifty dollar Honda.


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## Rockproof

Btw, Leatherman will stand by that warrantee no problem. I've sent two back so far that were broken...Got 1 back new and 1 back repaired...Great US company!


----------



## HJames

Excellent work!!! There are a few of here that are using the 212cc Predator as a repower, you may have seen a thread last week that discussed icing issues during high wind and cold temp conditions. It appears that your original motor has some sheilding for the linkages around the air box. You may want to try to fit some of those sheilds on the Predator, and perhaps post some detailed pics of the sheilds for those of us who would like to fabricate our own


----------



## TomB985

Thanks guys! I have to admit I'm pretty proud of the old girl. I really can't wait for some snow to fall so I can really try it out! Need to find some skids though, they're missing. 



HJames said:


> It appears that your original motor has some sheilding for the linkages around the air box. You may want to try to fit some of those sheilds on the Predator, and perhaps post some detailed pics of the sheilds for those of us who would like to fabricate our own


Hrmmm...never thought of that. I'll take a look over the next day or two and see what I can do. Of course I'll post lots of pics.


----------



## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> Thanks guys! I have to admit I'm pretty proud of the old girl. I really can't wait for some snow to fall so I can really try it out! Need to find some skids though, they're missing.
> 
> 
> 
> Hrmmm...never thought of that. I'll take a look over the next day or two and see what I can do. Of course I'll post lots of pics.


You could make some home made HDPE skids and they slide over the surfaces much better than stock steal ones.


----------



## TomB985

GustoGuy said:


> You could make some home made HDPE skids and they slide over the surfaces much better than stock steal ones.


That sounds good, how would I go about doing that?


----------



## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> That sounds good, how would I go about doing that?


Tom, You can buy a cheap cutting board which is made out of HDPE and cut out a pattern shaped like a skid that is reversible and make slotted holes about 2 inches long in them so you can adjust height for wear. Here is what some people did to make their own. I bought a set of Robalons for my MTD and I made a set for my Gilson
Mark



http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...-skids-hold-up-compared-stock-metal-ones.html


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## TomB985

GustoGuy said:


> Tom, You can buy a cheap cutting board which is made out of HDPE and cut out a pattern shaped like a skid that is reversible and make slotted holes about 2 inches long in them so you can adjust height for wear. Here is what some people did to make their own. I bought a set of Robalons for my MTD and I made a set for my Gilson
> Mark


Very interesting. Looks like HDPE board can be bought on amazon.com for cheap. Do you think 1/2" would be appropriate?


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## TomB985

We got an inch of snow last night, and I couldn't help but give it a short test run to ensure that it's working right. I really need to get some skid shoes on this thing, but otherwise it works flawlessly! Once we get some real snow I'll take a video.


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## TomB985

Installed my cheapie Amazon.com skids today. Mine's too old to have the side skids from the factory, so they went on with the help of a drill, dremel, jack stand, new and old hardware. My genius self thought that two bolts and nuts were sufficient when at the hardware store earlier. 



Also picked up some contact cement. Tomorrow evening I'll see about gluing the abrasive back on the auger brake arm.


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## Shryp

TomB985 said:


> My genius self thought that two bolts and nuts were sufficient when at the hardware store earlier.


Hah, the old there are only 2 holes so I only need 2 bolts routine? Forgot you needed two skids did you? I think we can all relate to doing something like that.


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## TomB985

Shryp said:


> Hah, the old there are only 2 holes so I only need 2 bolts routine? Forgot you needed two skids did you? I think we can all relate to doing something like that.


Yeah, I was shaking my head in the garage for a few minutes. I was able to find two longerM8 bolts and one nut laying around. So I tapped one of the holes, found a bunch of washers, and it WORKS! 

And just for the record I'm pretty impressed with the quality of the steel used in this thing. You'd think something like an auger housing would use some pretty cheap mild steel, but this stuff seems tougher than that. I haven't measured the thickness, but it really surprises me that tapping something that thin would hold. Of course I'll be throwing a nut on the other side for good measure, but it still impresses me.


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## TomB985

We got a dusting of snow and ice on Saturday. With the skid shoes it tracks really well across the ground without being hung up like before. As far as I'm concerned she's 100% ready to go for the next real snow fall. Hoping to get a good foot of snow to really try her out!


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## TomB985

Got the chance to really spend some time with it today. Cleared my 1/4 mile driveway in about three and a half hours today after a 10" snowfall. I was very impressed with how well the machine worked, the 212cc engine was a great choice for this size blower. 

Here's a video of the machine in action:






A victory shot at the end of the driveway. SUCCESS! 



And a video I took coming home from work showing just how much snow this thing moved:






Yeah, that took AWHILE. Saved me an $80 plow bill though!


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## HJames

That's not a driveway, it's a small road I'd be stashing away my pennies for a tractor with a blower


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## TomB985

HJames said:


> That's not a driveway, it's a small road I'd be stashing away my pennies for a tractor with a blower


It's about a quarter of a mile long. I'm renting the house so I don't want to invest too much in snow removal. I have a plow guy that does it for $80, but I had today off because of the weather and figured I'd give it a shot. I got the blower to clean up near the house after the plow guy gets done. 

Really put the replacement engine to the test though, she was working at nearly full load for over three hours.


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## Kharnn

TomB985 when you mounted the pulley, how did you secure them to the crankshaft?


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## TomB985

Kharnn said:


> TomB985 when you mounted the pulley, how did you secure them to the crankshaft?


I was originally looking for pulleys that would line up and be able to use the bolt through the crankshaft to secure them. But that didn't happen, and the replacement pulleys had a set screw that holds them in place. So I just lined them up on the shaft at the appropriate locations, tightened the set screws, and haven't had any issues since.


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## Hkellogg

Well done I'm thoroughly impressed


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## Kharnn

thanks i wasn't sure if i could just use the setscrews


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## TomB985

Hkellogg said:


> Well done I'm thoroughly impressed


Thanks! 



Kharnn said:


> thanks i wasn't sure if i could just use the setscrews


Yeah I wasn't either. But after about 6 hours of strenuous runtime I'm satisfied that the pullies aren't going anywhere. 

In other news, my auger drive belt gave up the ghost today. It's my own fault, when I had the blower assembly apart I noted that the belt was in awful shape and should be replaced. But when nobody had one in stock I gave up, thinking it might last the season. It didn't! 



Fortunately it was courteous enough to do so after I had cleared the majority of the driveway. Save for a small section in front of the garage it's all done. Here's a shot of the longest leg, this is about 2/3rds of my driveway:



It was about 6" of snow:


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## 43128

*honda clone rejet*

hi, i have a 196cc honda clone on my blower that surges, how do you guys rejet the carbs?


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## Shryp

43128 said:


> hi, i have a 196cc honda clone on my blower that surges, how do you guys rejet the carbs?


Torch tip files or micro drill bits.


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## 43128

do you only do the jet or the emulsion tube also, the motor is well built, it just likes to surge


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## 43128

tom b985 do you know that you have one of the new hemi head clones, look it up in google, i didnt even know they existed until last month


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## Shryp

43128 said:


> do you only do the jet or the emulsion tube also, the motor is well built, it just likes to surge


I just did the small jet that screws in under the emulsion tube.


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## 43128

could it be something else or is it just lean from the factory, it is brand new running e10


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## TomB985

43128 said:


> tom b985 do you know that you have one of the new hemi head clones, look it up in google, i didnt even know they existed until last month


Interesting. I just took a look on Google and it looks like some folks have these things making some pretty impressive power. They seem to be holding together pretty well, perhaps it'll last pretty long in a snowblower.


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## 43128

i have just a plain 196cc clone engine, the only reason i didnt go for the predator was because the 196ccs take more honda parts then the 212cc predators, but i love my honda clone, so much better then the pain in the ass tecumseh hm80 which never ran right and was becoming more expensive to fix then to buy a new engine


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## GustoGuy

43128 said:


> i have just a plain 196cc clone engine, the only reason i didnt go for the predator was because the 196ccs take more honda parts then the 212cc predators, but i love my honda clone, so much better then the pain in the ass tecumseh hm80 which never ran right and was becoming more expensive to fix then to buy a new engine


Exactly. Starting my Tecumseh 5 hp POS was a 1/2 hour ritual of messing around with it just to get it to run well enough to go out and blow the driveway. With the new engine it starts everytime in 1 to 2 pulls and runs strong and great while blowing the driveway. *Tecumseh failed because they chose not to innovate their stuff and they kept making the same old stuff and never fixed the carburetors or connecting rod issue that they were infamous for (blowing rods with the 8 to 10hp) over 40 years while Honda made the small engine into what it is today. *The Chinese made Pedator engine was even stress tested by cart engine building places were they put it under load and ran it low on oil until it failed and not once did they blow their connecting rods. They did this to determine the inherit weakness of the engines design in order to develop aftermarket billet forged connecting rods and flywheels to prevent failures while racing.


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## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> Interesting. I just took a look on Google and it looks like some folks have these things making some pretty impressive power. They seem to be holding together pretty well, perhaps it'll last pretty long in a snowblower.


Use a quaility synthetic oil in it Tom like Amsoil or Mobil 1 and it will last for years to come. I have over 300,000 miles on the so-called experts here on the forum "Worst of the Worst Hyundia Elantra" and over 258,000 on my wife's 2000 Buick 3800 V6 and both engines still run great.


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## TomB985

GustoGuy said:


> *Tecumseh failed because they chose not to innovate their stuff and they kept making the same old stuff and never fixed the carburetors or connecting rod issue that they were infamous for (blowing rods with the 8 to 10hp) over 40 years while Honda made the small engine into what it is today. *


Ha ha...that's ironic because it was a connecting rod failure that caused me to need an engine swap in the first place.


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## GustoGuy

TomB985 said:


> Ha ha...that's ironic because it was a connecting rod failure that caused me to need an engine swap in the first place.


Actually Honda seemed to have more problems with the GX140cc engines than the Gx196cc engines. Remember there is no replacement for displacement. Good to hear that your HF Predator 212cc is working great for you. I bet it is a beast on the 22inch Bucket
The Cart racing world cart engine builders tested that HF Predator 212cc to find the inherent weakness of the engine and they found stock flywheel unsafe at rpms over stock and Connecting rod should be stronger at rpms over stock when run hard and low on oil yet non of the Predator engine blew rods when they were intentionally ran out of oil and allowed to sieze that were tested while running under load. 
Find what breaks first build a better part to replace it to make a bullet proof engine. The HF Predator engine blocks castings are very well made according to NR racing and nearly as good as the actual Honda engine Blocks in quality. NR racing has got 14hp out of just 212cc on this engine


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## 43128

i have one of the early honda gx engines, agxv 120 on a 1983 push mower and it run real, well, the only issue it has developed over the years of abuse isthat it smokes on startup, the rings need to expand for about 1 minute now but thats ok, it stills run. i remember having a gxv140 on a plastic deck harmony and it had a bet crank with the blade adapter seized on, i ran that thing for mo oil for at least 45 minutes and by the end of all that abuse it rans fine with no rattles or noises, not even a knocking or a piston slap, i just decided to stop torturing the poor thing, later in the summer i will sell the tecrapseh hm80 on craigslist after a valve job and make it somebody elses problem, i need sonmething that will actually run. b tecumseh only failed because they chose to stick with a 1910 or even earlerier design for 100 years


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## TomB985

GustoGuy said:


> Actually Honda seemed to have more problems with the GX140cc engines than the Gx196cc engines. Remember there is no replacement for displacement. Good to hear that your HF Predator 212cc is working great for you. I bet it is a beast on the 22inch Bucket
> The Cart racing world cart engine builders tested that HF Predator 212cc to find the inherent weakness of the engine and they found stock flywheel unsafe at rpms over stock and Connecting rod should be stronger at rpms over stock when run hard and low on oil yet non of the Predator engine blew rods when they were intentionally ran out of oil and allowed to sieze that were tested while running under load.
> Find what breaks first build a better part to replace it to make a bullet proof engine. The HF Predator engine blocks castings are very well made according to NR racing and nearly as good as the actual Honda engine Blocks in quality. NR racing has got 14hp out of just 212cc on this engine


Wow, 14 horsepower is a LOT from an engine that size. Just yesterday I was thinking about the possibilities of modifying this thing to run a higher RPM for more power. But that's really not necessary, this thing does a fantastic job. It replaced a GX160 though, and it has a 24" bucket. 

The only blower I had before was a 2010 Troy-Bilt 30" with a 357cc engine. That blower wasn't designed well to use the power the engine made. Snow would spew out the sides of the bucket before the engine approached full load. This thing is different, and even with the larger engine I can go fast enough to put the engine right at full load to move as fast as the engine is capable of. I think I would have been disappointed with the performance of a 160cc engine after seeing how well this thing works. Perhaps this is why the 624 was phased out in '96 in favor of the 724 with the GX200 that they still make today. 



43128 said:


> i have one of the early honda gx engines, agxv 120 on a 1983 push mower and it run real, well, the only issue it has developed over the years of abuse isthat it smokes on startup, the rings need to expand for about 1 minute now but thats ok, it stills run. i remember having a gxv140 on a plastic deck harmony and it had a bet crank with the blade adapter seized on, i ran that thing for mo oil for at least 45 minutes and by the end of all that abuse it rans fine with no rattles or noises, not even a knocking or a piston slap, i just decided to stop torturing the poor thing, later in the summer i will sell the tecrapseh hm80 on craigslist after a valve job and make it somebody elses problem, i need sonmething that will actually run. b tecumseh only failed because they chose to stick with a 1910 or even earlerier design for 100 years


It's pretty impressive to hear stories of Honda engine lasting that long. It's a shame the factory engine in my 624 didn't last that long. Of course if it did I wouldn't have been able to pick it up for $50! 

Total investment so far is $350 including the new engine, belt, pulleys, auger shaft, and shear pins.


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## 43128

the annoying thing is that spending a half hour just to gt the **** thing running in the middle of a snowstorm and having it stall out constantly in the middle of the driveway isnt what a call running, im only 17 and i know quality when i see it, and while it is hard to admit, lets be honest, tecumseh isnt quality, and its an american made product. engine blocks made out of "monkey metal", the cheapest scrap metal they can find doesnt make a good engine. its kind of sad to see the asians make a better product


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## TomB985

43128 said:


> the annoying thing is that spending a half hour just to gt the **** thing running in the middle of a snowstorm and having it stall out constantly in the middle of the driveway isnt what a call running, im only 17 and i know quality when i see it, and while it is hard to admit, lets be honest, tecumseh isnt quality, and its an american made product. engine blocks made out of "monkey metal", the cheapest scrap metal they can find doesnt make a good engine. its kind of sad to see the asians make a better product


If you say so. I have a Tecumseh-powered string trimmer my parents bought new 16 years ago that's still running strong. I had to replace the crankcase breather and ignition coil, otherwise the thing runs fantastic. I think the quality of Tecumseh engines is just fine. 

And that "monkey metal" is called aluminum. And it's anything but cheap.


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## 43128

well, the older tecumsehs made before 1995 were ok, but then the epa started making them redesign there engines and that was the final demise for tecumseh


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## TomB985

43128 said:


> well, the older tecumsehs made before 1995 were ok, but then the epa started making them redesign there engines and that was the final demise for tecumseh


Didn't you just accuse them of using a 100-year-old design?


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## 43128

yes, they have been using that same basic flathead design that were used in cars as early as 1912, suct as the ford model t, the flathead is an old, antiquated, fuel gulping and noisy design. also, have you ever tried starting an epa regulated tecumseh hm80 snowking in the winter using only the starter rope? good luck with that. this is a video of a well cared for tecumseh hm80 snowking, epa style carburetor thats been replaced at least twice and never abused, this is not my videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WRP0Td7QKI


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## 43128

you should consider installing an impeller kit, not that your blower needs it, just to see the results


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## GustoGuy

43128 said:


> well, the older tecumsehs made before 1995 were ok, but then the epa started making them redesign there engines and that was the final demise for tecumseh


Sounds like Tecumseh to blame it on the big bad EPA. Flat head engines pollute more than OHV engines and release more unburned hydrocarbons into the atmossphere. Tecumseh blamed all the Connecting rod problems on their customers too. *You over reved it. Our you disable the govenor. Or you ran it low on oil.* They knew the 8 to 10 hp L head engines were suceptable to rod failure at rpms barely exceedling the stock 3600 rpm per the govenor and they had many years to redesign the connecting rods so they would be more tolerant to ocaisional over revs and high loads that occurs while snowblowing. They (Tecumseh) tried to make OHV engines but they had problems with their poorly engineered compression release mechanism and rope kickback while starting. Dropped a whole series of OHV engines in 1991 because of this and sold more Flathead's. Honda ate them alive slowly and they simply failed at coming up with a good designed OHV answer to Honda's wildly sucessful OHV engines. They were on the ropes when the Chinese engine manufacturers were introducing their products and their reputation had suffered.* In bussiness Reputation is everything.* Do you think Honda was complacent and hoped to sell more camshafts to fix problems with their GX series engines. I think not.


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## 43128

do do you remember the ssi issues with the tecumseh oh series, particularly the the oh112 and oh116, have fun getting one of those. do you know how many hm80s with blown rds show up on my local craigslist? a lot. like 6 a season at least. and then youve got the ones that go to small engine shops that are just sold for scrap value. i try not to touch tecumsehs unless it is from the late 80s or earlier, those arnt as bad but are still pretty bad. with my old hm80, i remember having to **** with the carburetor for at least 10 minutes to get it to run right, and then half the time it would just stall in the middle of the driveway and you had to drag the fucking thing up to the garage to start it with the electric starter. and also, my old tecumseh hm80 would just gulp through gas, i could be out there 25 minutes with a full 1 gallon tank and half the gas would be gone. and the best part with tecumseh was when the engines were ran low on oil, it would be just enough to keep the piston happy and stop it from seizing, but of course not enough to keep the rod happy and as a result the block was usually totaled. you know whats kind of funny, tecumseh is so bad that the engines are worth more if you part them out because the low quality parts in them are always failing. and tom, i hope to see and autopsy of that gx160 soon, usually if they crack the case when they throw a rod they crack right underneath the gas tank, hope you can fix it and make some money off of it.


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