# Upgraded Underdog of 2016



## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

Happy New Year to you all,
I’ve been following SBF for a few years now and find you all to be an informative, nice little community of people who (like me) like to work on and take care of their own stuff.

I titled this thread Underdog, cause let’s face it, most of you wouldn’t recommend an MTD product (these days) and for the most part I can’t argue that, however they do have their place, but now they’re build quality is mostly for the homeowner or contractor that only takes care of their own home, but that’s only after the wife gets on his case to “getter dun”. Neither one wants to or cares to or doesn’t make the time to take care of their equipment. As a result they fail. They fail more than they should or would if they actually took care of them. I’m of the belief that nothing is built the old school way “nothing” and will fail if not properly maintained. Me personally, I work on residential homes for a living (33yrs so far) and like to work on my own equipment as a pass time or in my spare time.

Having said all that, MTD did away with two previous machines, a 33”- 357cc & 45”- 420cc. personally I wouldn’t have bought either one of those machines. MTD changed, upgraded and replaced those two machines in 2016 with a 30”- 357cc & a 34”- 420cc. These two machines are sized more appropriately. The gear box is twice as large with a steel brace bolted to the top of the gear box and welded to the housing. Both newer machines are built identically with the exception of housing width/cc. Both machines are painted two different colors and labeled as either a Troy-Bilt Artic Storm or a Craftsman Pro with different trimmings. 
These machines are built in the U.S. with Powermore engines made in China. Ariens & Husqvarna LCT engines are made in China, and Toro’s Loncin engines are also made in China. Most likely all the B&S engines are now made in China. In fact one would be hard pressed to find a snow blower with a U.S.A. made engine. All these China engines are built to the specs of the American engineers that designed them. To be fair, this is the world we live in and if we had all American made products (through & through) available to us, we’d be paying Honda prices on everything we own.

Ok, so the Underdog I purchased was the Craftsman Pro 34” with a 420cc motor and would like to know if you guys would of come to the same conclusion that I have, that these 2 new machines are an improvement and stand out in the MTD family?
This machine has;
•	A hand crank that will completely turn the shoot 200 degrees in 2 rotations. 
•	14”- 4 blade impeller & 14” auger flights. 
•	16” x 6.5” tires.
•	1 lever for deflector & one for 6 forward & 2 reverse (I adjusted reverse speed).
•	7 LED lights, 1 in dash & 6 mounted on top of auger housing (important to me).
•	Entire machine has thicker steel, it’s heavy.
•	1.3 gallon poly tank
•	Trigger steering 

Check out the following specs & pics;
Gauged steel using Vernier caliper & converted using chart via Google
Auger housing (both sides & top) - 13 ga
Support brace joining gearbox to auger housing - 7 ga
Shave plate - 7 ga
Impeller housing – 13 ga
Auger flights – 11 ga
Impeller blades – 11 ga
Transmission box – 13 ga
Welded L brackets joining impeller housing to transmission box - 11 ga
Chute & deflector – 16 ga
Hanging Chute support mast – 11 ga
Shifting levers – 11 ga
Rims – 11 ga
Looking forward to hearing what you all think. Perhaps now that our blowers are out some of you can check the gauge thickness of the steel, I’m curious about the other brands.
Thanks.


----------



## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

each to their own, yes cared for properly all run as made.craftsman blowers have in the past been made by both MTD and husky, 

https://movingsnow.com/2012/whats-the-difference/


----------



## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

Time will tell.


----------



## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I think you'll get a lot of use out of her...the MTD's I've come across were functional and if kept up were fine. I think working on them is easier at times and the parts are cheap and available


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Stanley just purchased MTD, I saw this in another thread. I think this will improve their quality. Maybe this is the first sign of that.


----------



## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

What's up with the stabilizers for the auger housing? Why is that? I think I know the answer.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

cranman said:


> I think you'll get a lot of use out of her...the MTD's I've come across were functional and if kept up were fine. I think working on them is easier at times and the parts are cheap and available



That has been my experience, and is 100% accurate. It's all about the maintenance.


----------



## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

cranman said:


> I think you'll get a lot of use out of her...the MTD's I've come across were functional and if kept up were fine. I think working on them is easier at times and the parts are cheap and available


Yes I agree, the design is simplistic. It's been around for a very long time and just works, that's why it's still used to this day. The gearing is robust and if kept clean and lubed, should continue to work smoothly.

Yes, parts are reasonably priced and available. I made sure of this prior to purchase knowing that Sears may go under soon. For those who are curious, on all Craftsman and Troybilt units there's an MTD model number on the sticker. I've called MTD Tech several times and never had to wait longer than 60 seconds to be speaking with an American Man based in Ohio, friendly & willing to help, answer my questions and emailing me service manuals for both engine and machine. I've also went on their website and opened up 2 browsers, 1 for the TB arctic storm and 1 for the Craft Pro, went through page by page taking note of the identical part numbers for both machines. One can buy any and all of the parts direct from MTD. I was also told by MTD and my local dealer as long as it has a MTD model # they can work on the machine under warranty the same as if it was a Troybilt.


----------



## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

jsup said:


> Stanley just purchased MTD, I saw this in another thread. I think this will improve their quality. Maybe this is the first sign of that.


I believe Stanley bought into MTD, they didn't buy the whole company, at least not yet. They did this because they bought the Craftsman "name" and are building there own craftsman named machines, which are different then the Craftsman machines at Sears.

Having said that, I don't put much stock in Stanley, they have trashed many American brands they've bought in the past, 2 examples are Delta and Porter Cable.


----------



## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Stanley made tape measures for Craftsman for years. Then one day, they stopped and they stopped the lifetime guarantee on them. This was about 3 years ago.


----------



## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

jsup said:


> Stanley just purchased MTD, I saw this in another thread. I think this will improve their quality. Maybe this is the first sign of that.


Sept 12 (Reuters) - Power tool maker Stanley Black & Decker Inc said on Wednesday it had agreed to *buy a 20 percent stake *in lawnmower maker MTD Products Inc for $234 million, upping investment in the market in outdoor garden equipment.Sep 12, 2018


----------



## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

russ01915 said:


> What's up with the stabilizers for the auger housing? Why is that? I think I know the answer.


If your referring to the tubular steel on each side, it ties the machine together, additional support, the handle bars don't flex and the housing doesn't tweek. You can push down on one handle and the whole front end will lift evenly. The tube is bolted to a bracket that is welded to the back of the housing and is bolted to a bracket that's bolted to the handle bars.

I just grabbed my scale out of my bathroom, went outside and slid it under the housing, so that the center of the shave plate is sitting on the scale. It weighed in at 84 lbs. Not an exact science, but a reference.


----------



## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

I think it is a way to reduce costs. Thinner sheet metal that is being reinforced.


----------



## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Stability said:


> Having said that, I don't put much stock in Stanley, they have trashed many American brands they've bought in the past, 2 examples are Delta and Porter Cable.


Agree, crappy company, doing away with hand tool guarantees of Proto, Stanley, all others they own, now only for defects, not wear except for Craftsman.

Porter Cable use to be the Rolls Royce of contractor's power tools. No longer.

Delta power tools is owned by Chinese company Chang Type Industry.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

russ01915 said:


> Sept 12 (Reuters) - Power tool maker Stanley Black & Decker Inc said on Wednesday it had agreed to *buy a 20 percent stake *in lawnmower maker MTD Products Inc for $234 million, upping investment in the market in outdoor garden equipment.Sep 12, 2018



Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

I think the tubular pieces running from the handlebars to the bucket are a good thing. It was probably done to ward off warranty claims and was an easy re-engineering. Ariens a few years ago had problems with handlebars cracking after a few years on certain models.


----------



## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Agree, crappy company, doing away with hand tool guarantees , now only for defects, not wear.
> 
> Delta and Porter Cable use to be the Rolls Royce of contractor's power tools. No longer.


opened my eyes up big time 

https://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliations/


----------



## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

russ01915 said:


> I think it is a way to reduce costs. Thinner sheet metal that is being reinforced.


Respectfully, perhaps your right. Maybe? Personally I don't think 3/32" - 13 ga steel is thin or cheap (especially when stamped rolled and welded). I can say that the housing does not flex at all when I tip it up. 

Additionally, I attempted to be as thorough and transparent as I could, meticulously measuring and gauging the whole unit and including that in my original post.

I don't know which Ariens models you own (nice line up though), perhaps if you had a moment you could measure up some of the steel as a comparison, I'd certainly be interested to see what your findings are.

I can say with out a doubt that the steel on the Ariens 30" deluxe model (I was looking at) were any thicker. 

By the way I too own a toro 721 R-C single stage. Excellent little machines.


----------



## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

33 woodie said:


> opened my eyes up big time
> 
> https://toolguyd.com/tool-brands-corporate-affiliations/


I like Stewart from Toolguyd, as a woodworker I've been following his articles, very informative.

Bostitch, I forgot about them, been so long since I bought or used one that I forgot they existed. Why? Because after Stanley bought them they turned into complete garbage! It's a crying shame! If there was one positive outcome from that transition, it was the fact that part of those original American workers from Bostitch bought part of the tech and renamed their pneumatic tools as Maxtools usa. I still own a pneumatic SuperMax coil framing nailer, beautiful piece of equipment.


----------



## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

shallowwatersailor said:


> I think the tubular pieces running from the handlebars to the bucket are a good thing. It was probably done to ward off warranty claims and was an easy re-engineering. Ariens a few years ago had problems with handlebars cracking after a few years on certain models.


What your stating sounds reasonable to me. I find it to be a benefit either way. I can feel how it ties the whole unit together.


----------



## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

I think the supports are because it is a 34" bucket/auger housing. Makes sense!

I like that Toro does that as well.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Toro does it on smaller buckets too. Just had one here that had them, it was 26". I know because I just looked at my phone's pictures, because I take pictures of the part number sticker, and the model was 38622.


----------

