# Thoughts On Ariens Auto-Turn?



## Blue Hill

Hey Folks,
I've kind of got my heart set on the new Platinum 24. It looks to have everything I could want in a snowblower and seems pretty much perfect for my needs. Before I actually pull the trigger I'd really like to know your thoughts on the Auto-Turn feature. Removing snow in my yard will involve lots of tight turns, so it seems to me to be the perfect solution, but I've been wondering if it might prove to be a weak spot over the long term. 
Looking forward to your input.
Regards,
Larry


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## Shryp

I have used solid axle blowers and I thought I was in heaven when I bought an old 1970s Ariens and found a differential in it. I can turn that thing with one hand without even trying. It can be slightly problematic on ice as that will let one wheel spin, but I will take it. The old ones were either open or locked.

The new ones are suppose to auto lock for going straight and still allow easy turning so in theory it should be the best of both worlds. They first came out with the auto turn feature a couple years back, but this year I think they redesigned it so there must have been some issues with it.


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## deadwood

Have you seen the Ariens video on YouTube? Looks pretty slick, as far as reliability they tend to test new tech pretty substantially. I wouldn't have a concern with it.


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## Blue Hill

Went to my local dealer today and came away with a bad feeling. They want to charge an extra $130.00 for set up. This is a large "green" farm implement dealer who sells Ariens as a sideline out of 8 branches, so they cover the entire south part of Saskatchewan. Think volume buying. If I care to drive 2 hours I can go to either of 2 small dealers and buy the same machine with no set up charge. I can't even go to the depot, because they don't sell the platinum 24 in Canada. Makes my blood boil!


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## Brucebotti

Blue Hill said:


> Went to my local dealer today and came away with a bad feeling. They want to charge an extra $130.00 for set up. This is a large "green" farm implement dealer who sells Ariens as a sideline out of 8 branches, so they cover the entire south part of Saskatchewan. Think volume buying. If I care to drive 2 hours I can go to either of 2 small dealers and buy the same machine with no set up charge. I can't even go to the depot, because they don't sell the platinum 24 in Canada. Makes my blood boil!


Wow! That does seem steep. My local dealer charged $36 which I considered a reasonable charge. They also delivered it free of charge.
Bruce


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## Blue Hill

I sent my issue to Ariens on their ask us a question deal. It seems to me to lack the integrity they are famous for. There was a local Japanese power equipment dealer here that had his dealership revoked for pulling just this kind of crap.


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## BrianMcSouthJersey

Thoughts on Ariens ATC feature; I have a 2010 Ariens Platinum 24 model 921017 with the automatic traction control and I love it. When I bought it I thought it was the best combination of size, power and maneuverability for my requirements. Went with the Platinum over the Deluxe model BECAUSE of the ATC and I have not been disappointed. I have never used a snowblower of any type before and I wanted it to be as easy to use as possible for me and my wife. It turns on a dime in place very easily to begin the next row. There is no struggling or straining with turning you just turn it like a push mower, very easy. That is my only comparison since I have never used another snowblower before.


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## Blue Hill

Thanks Brian!
You situation sounds a lot like mine. It's been over 45 years since I used a snow blower and I've decided that the wife and I are getting too old to be doing the amount of shovelling that our yard requires in the winter. I'm fairly mechanical, but pretty much all I know about snowblowers comes from reading what the good folks that frequent this forum have to say. I'm glad that I seem to be on the right track with my choice.
Best regards,
Larry


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## BrianMcSouthJersey

Glad to help Larry! Yes internet forums are great, this forum helped me out tremendously 3 years ago when researching snowblowers for my own needs. Seems for almost any subject or area of interest there is an internet forum where knowledgeable enthusiasts share with like minded people or those seeking to learn. They are a great resource.


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## GreatCanadian

I have the 2013 Platinum 30 with ATC, and I find that I am always struggling to keep it running straight. It's a workout let me tell ya !! Now, I am in no way disputing Brian McSouthJersey's impressions of the ATC, because that's what you're going to find when reading about the ATC feature. It appears to work extremely well for some, while others like me don't like it. I personally prefer the deluxe model which uses the trigger. That being said, I am thinking that my driveway may have something to do with the function of the ATC. I have a lot of dips and such. When one side of the bucket dips, the cutting bar catches in the driveway, and the ATC frees up one wheel because it thinks I want to turn. I am ordering the bigger skid shoes from snowblowerskids.com to see if that helps improve the situation any. I have used it on my neighbors driveway a couple of times and it seems to work a bit better there. His driveway is a little more flat than mine.


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## GreatCanadian

Also, just realized the the Auto-Turn feature is new for 2014. That suggests that it must be different than the Automatic Traction Control from previous years. Does anyone know what the difference is between Auto-Turn and the Automatic Traction Control?


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## Shryp

GreatCanadian said:


> Also, just realized the the Auto-Turn feature is new for 2014. That suggests that it must be different than the Automatic Traction Control from previous years. Does anyone know what the difference is between Auto-Turn and the Automatic Traction Control?


Here is a quote from Snowmann (someone who actually works for Ariens)



> The latest Auto Turn releases power from the interior wheel for tighter turning radii, has a wet sump for longer life, and unlocks faster than the old system (formerly called ATC, Auto Traction Control). I hope this helps.


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## GreatCanadian

Thanks Shryp.


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## seaox

GreatCanadian said:


> I have the 2013 Platinum 30 with ATC, and I find that I am always struggling to keep it running straight. It's a workout let me tell ya !! Now, I am in no way disputing Brian McSouthJersey's impressions of the ATC, because that's what you're going to find when reading about the ATC feature. It appears to work extremely well for some, while others like me don't like it. I personally prefer the deluxe model which uses the trigger. That being said, I am thinking that my driveway may have something to do with the function of the ATC. I have a lot of dips and such. When one side of the bucket dips, the cutting bar catches in the driveway, and the ATC frees up one wheel because it thinks I want to turn. I am ordering the bigger skid shoes from snowblowerskids.com to see if that helps improve the situation any. I have used it on my neighbors driveway a couple of times and it seems to work a bit better there. His driveway is a little more flat than mine.


Greetings Great Canadian: I am a new member & noted you have a 2013 Ariens Platinum 30.
In US this Platinum model is $600.00 less than the PRO model. But I question if there is really much difference. Did you compare the two?? How is your Platinum holding up?? Have you had any improvement with the Auto-Turn performance since February 2013?? 

I live on coast north of Boston so we get mix of rain & snow so I need machine with engine that can throw heavy snow. Thx.


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## Blue Hill

Welcome to the forum Seaox! Not to speak for him, but I think Great Canadian was talking about last year's model with automatic traction control, or atc. This year's model with"Auto-Turn" is said to be an improvement. I have the current model with the auto-turn system and while I've not yet tried it in the snow, it sure is effortless on the driveway. Ariens calls it zero turn and I think they will be proven right.


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## CraZySteve

seaox said:


> Greetings Great Canadian: I am a new member & noted you have a 2013 Ariens Platinum 30.
> In US this Platinum model is $600.00 less than the PRO model. But I question if there is really much difference. Did you compare the two?? How is your Platinum holding up?? Have you had any improvement with the Auto-Turn performance since February 2013??
> 
> I live on coast north of Boston so we get mix of rain & snow so I need machine with engine that can throw heavy snow. Thx.


Alot of differences between a Plat 30 and a Pro 28/32.

-Full length shaft for the Auger
-420cc engine vs 342cc engine
-16" auger vs 14" auger
-14" impeller vs 12" impeller
-23.5 intake height vs 21" intake height
-Pro28 is 318lbs vs 270 lbs
-Pro models have bearings throughout vs Platinum and below has bushings.
-Drive axle thicker on Pro

I wound up buying a 2013 Pro28 for $1900 brand new - Just waiting for the snow.

My only experience with the Auto-turn is unloading it from my trailer and parking it in the garage. That is after wheeling it around a bit to check out the Auto-turn. The auto-turn turns on a dime - one handed. As soon as I was straight - both wheels where driving. Again - very limited use but so far I think it is slick!


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## WaveRaven

Hi guys first post here I had to join to jump into this discussion.

Auto-Turn is what is currently making me hesitant from buying a 28" Pro.

I have about 150 of driveway probably about a 5-7ft drop top to bottom than an area of about 50x50 I clear all of which are at an angle none of which is paved gravel some grass. So it never gets cleaned down and can be rough bumpy.

This snow could sit a week and so could the plowed snow at the end when I get there. I need a quality powerful machine.

My concern is that when using old now defunct mtd it could be bear side hilling. The lower side of the blower would of course want to go downhill especially if there was bump of something. You'd be fighting it to keep it straight at times.

I am afraid this Auto turn will make this even worse by trying to shutdown that downhill wheel thinking I want to turn that way. 

All videos I see are dead level paved ground not my situation at all.

I am considering the simplicity pro 28, Toro 1128 HD and the 28 Pro.

Now is there difference between how the wheeled and tracked 28 perform in these conditions ?


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## jdtbone

Looking at getting a new snowblower as well and considering the Ariens Deluxe 28+, Ariens Platinum 24, or Cub Cadet 524 SWE.

What I would like to know is does the Auto-Turn feature simply unlock the wheels so the user can turn the snowblower or is it actually a powered turn?

It's not absolutely clear to me. Would prefer to hear from an actual user of the new system.

When watching the video from Ariens showing the cutaway of the differential, one axle actually appears to speed up while the other reverses in motion. It makes me think the user is pushing the snowblower through the turn.

I'm curious as well with regards to Raven's question as I have a sloped concrete driveway.

As a side note, Ariens maintains that this is a new system over the older, lever operated, automatic traction control. I've talked to 2 different dealers that maintain that the auto turn and the older automatic traction control are the same system. Looking at the parts diagrams for the 2 systems does show significant parts differences.


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## GustoGuy

deadwood said:


> Have you seen the Ariens video on YouTube? Looks pretty slick, as far as reliability they tend to test new tech pretty substantially. I wouldn't have a concern with it.


 Hopefully that is true. Some times when a product is tested it seems reliable until it gets out into the hands of the consumers. (It's Murphy's law when it comes to consumers. Some people have been careless and done lots of stupid things whether intentional or not that break their machinery) Hopefully for Ariens it will be reliable. A worst case scenario would be large numbers of warranty work to repair the auto turn within the first few years or a ton of failures 4 to 5 years down the road when the machines are no longer under warranty. Either of these scenarios could be damaging to the reputation of the company.


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## Blue Hill

Welcome to the forum JDT and wave! 
I have a Platinum 24 with the auto-turn and I'll try to answer your questions. First of all, don't let anyone tell you that auto-turn and the old ATC are the same thing. They are not. ATC required a lever to actuate it and the auto-turn is, well, auto. No levers, switches or buttons. I have read users of the ATC complaining about wrestling with their machines constantly and I can't imagine that with the auto-turn.
It's also not powered. The operator makes the machine turn, but it is pretty much effortless and it is pretty much a zero radius turn if you want it to be. I can't speak to what it will do on a side hill, because I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and it's flatter than your kitchen floor here, but I'm pretty confident in saying, you'll be happy with it.
If you have any more questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
Good luck.
Larry


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## jdtbone

Thanks for your reply Blue Hill and thanks for the welcome!

So it definitely sounds like the Auto-Turn allows the 2 wheels to slip independently of each other and the motion of the main drive gear and does not power the snowblower through the turn.

I was pretty sure the Auto-Turn and the ATC systems were different.

An Ariens customer service rep on the phone had indicated to me that it was a powered turn and I just wasn't seeing that in the video. It certainly looks to not take much effort. The video on Ariens site does show the action of the system pretty well, especially the cutaway shot of the differential.

I've only used my father's snowblower when I've helped out over there and it was a solid axle. Always fun wrestling that around!

I had figured the dealers were just trying to sell what they have on the floor.

Thanks again.


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## Blue Hill

You're welcome JDT. I guess, technically speaking, the differential powers one wheel and allows the other to freewheel?


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## FairfieldCT

I got to play with one at the dealers in his yard for about 10 minutes last week when I was purchasing. The feature is really amazing. The machine basically turns itself around and as soon as you give it any indication you want to move forward the posi locks in again. The surface was a bumpy gravel parking area and the 28 pro hydro we were running had no issues running in a straight line.


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## jdtbone

I'm sorry Blue Hill, I'm getting confused. Not too hard for me. I don't mean to belabor the point.

When the operator is making a turn with the snow blower, the outside wheel is being driven by the engine or not? 

You mention in your first reply that the user makes the machine turn and in your second post that the turn is powered. 

So to paraphrase, what you're saying is that the user initiates and controls the turn but that the snowblower is supplying the motive power?

Fairfield also indicated it is indeed being driven by the engine when making a turn.

Unfortunately, my dealers I've been talking to aren't the most forthcoming with test drives. Maybe I don't look serious enough about buying a snowblower.


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## Blue Hill

Sorry of I've confused you JDT and I apologize for taking so long to answer. You have it correct. The user initiates and controls the turn and the snowblower is supplying the motive power. The axel is like the differential on a rear wheel drive car. The wheels can turn at different rates. Even unpowered, you can accomplish a zero radius turn with ease.


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## jdtbone

It doesn't take much to confuse me. 

I re-read your posts and thought I had it pretty clear but just wanted to make certain.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out!

I've got another Ariens dealer in the area I can check out.

I'll see if they have the new models with the auto turn.


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## fishrman

Another one interested in the Platinum 24. I am thinking in another year or two, maybe they will make all Ariens autosteer but guess that won't do me much good this year if they do. I think they have extended the 5 year warranty offer through November 30th so it is very tempting to go ahead and get one now. I seriously have a hard time seeing the price vs. features difference between the Deluxe and the Platinum though. Thing is, I don't think they make a 24 inch in the Deluxe.


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## GustoGuy

fishrman said:


> Another one interested in the Platinum 24. I am thinking in another year or two, maybe they will make all Ariens autosteer but guess that won't do me much good this year if they do. I think they have extended the 5 year warranty offer through November 30th so it is very tempting to go ahead and get one now. I seriously have a hard time seeing the price vs. features difference between the Deluxe and the Platinum though. Thing is, I don't think they make a 24 inch in the Deluxe.


 Bigger wheels and engine in the Platinum vrs the Deluxe. Both are nice though.


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## Blue Hill

fishrman said:


> Another one interested in the Platinum 24. I am thinking in another year or two, maybe they will make all Ariens autosteer but guess that won't do me much good this year if they do. I think they have extended the 5 year warranty offer through November 30th so it is very tempting to go ahead and get one now. I seriously have a hard time seeing the price vs. features difference between the Deluxe and the Platinum though. Thing is, I don't think they make a 24 inch in the Deluxe.


Ariens makes a 24" blower in the compact, deluxe, platinum and tracked series.


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## fishrman

Blue Hill said:


> Ariens makes a 24" blower in the compact, deluxe, platinum and tracked series.


But, I really want the auto-turn and the 24 doesn't have it does it?


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## Blue Hill

Platinum 24 has the auto-turn. That's the only 24" with that feature.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60

I just got done assembling an Ariens deluxe 28 with the auto turn for my brother in law and it seems to work very nice. The turning is effortless, no jumping or skipping just nice and smooth. The machine is beautiful, but I and not too high on the Ariens Ax motor, seems a little cheap in certain areas. The choke control and oil fill tube don't seem like they will last forever like the machines of old. And the engine pulls over easy, like the compression isn't as tight as my 62. Runs great though. He had a 10% off coupon so he got it for $900. We'll see how she holds up this winter when and if the snow flies. It's just too much bling for me, lol.


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## Blue Hill

Holy Moly Ray!  By the time I paid all the taxes, $900 is pretty much exactly half of what I paid for the P24. Yikes. We Canucks get it in the neck when we buy stuff like that, along with cars and bikes etc. etc. A couple of years ago we went down to Fargo ND and bought a new camper trailer. Saved mucho dinero.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60

Don't feel so bad, the P24 is $1400 in Home Depot down here too so with tax we are right about where you guys are up there. Also, with tax my brother in law paid $980 in change. Now the trick will be getting the couch potato to use it, lol.


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## fishrman

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Don't feel so bad, the P24 is $1400 in Home Depot down here too so with tax we are right about where you guys are up there. Also, with tax my brother in law paid $980 in change. Now the trick will be getting the couch potato to use it, lol.


Ray, where do you get the 10% off coupon?
I think I am going to order mine from out of state and save on the taxes. I found a platinum 24 for 1329. delivered. That is the best I have found so far and if I don't get it soon. I will be using my 34 year old Toro. Probably what I should do too.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60

It was a 10% coupon from Home Depot. He actually bought it off of eBay believe it or not. I have done that before too when I have a big purchase to make. You can usually get them for a dollar or two. Just check the sellers feedback, make sure it's all positive. They email them directly to you and you just print them out at home.


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## fishrman

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> It was a 10% coupon from Home Depot. He actually bought it off of eBay believe it or not. I have done that before too when I have a big purchase to make. You can usually get them for a dollar or two. Just check the sellers feedback, make sure it's all positive. They email them directly to you and you just print them out at home.


Interesting as I just went through a bunch of, so called, customer service representatives when Home Depot refused to price match on an Ariens blower. Told me that the dealers that sell on the net are not competitors so they wouldn't price match. Hmmm, if they aren't competitors, why am I going to buy one from them instead of Home Depot?? That is a rhetorical question by the way!


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## Shryp

I get 10% coupons for Home Depot from my Discover Card probably about twice a year. You can also get them from the change of address forms from the post office.


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## fishrman

Shryp said:


> I get 10% coupons for Home Depot from my Discover Card probably about twice a year. You can also get them from the change of address forms from the post office.


Interesting about the change of address cards having them. Sure never thought about that. I have been searching on the net trying to find one and the only thing I find seems to be a hassle in trying to make one work. I do see there are a ton of them on EBay but not sure I want to try going that route either. Thanks!


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## fishrman

OK, I finally bit the bullet and ordered my new Ariens P24! Hopefully I won't have to use it this year! Should have it by Friday or so of this week. Got it for 1325.00 delivered. I gave up on Home Depot! Seems like they say one thing and do something else. Told me if I would sign up for a credit card I could get 10% off, so I did. Then the system told me I needed to call in to complete the transaction. At that point, I gave up and I figured I don't need another credit card and my credit is stellar. Decided I would order from out of state and save the sales tax. Doing it this way, I still saved more than I would have through HD anyway!


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## GreatCanadian

Hi all,
Just wanted to clarify something. The text that I've emphasized below is NOT correct. ATC does NOT require a lever to activate. Hence my confusion, and my many posts across many forums trying to decipher the difference in ATC and the new zero-turn of Ariens. My neighbors blower has the trigger differential, and my 2013 Platinum has the ATC. They are NOT the same thing. My blower can spin around on a dime. Easily, with no lever. What I am trying to figure out is how it is different from the new zero-turn, and it seems like noone can tell me.

Back to another point. Some here have been wondering about the ATC, and if they should get it. From my point of view, if I had my time back I would choose the trigger differential. They way the wheels stay locked until I command them to unlock. 



Blue Hill said:


> Welcome to the forum JDT and wave!
> I have a Platinum 24 with the auto-turn and I'll try to answer your questions. First of all, don't let anyone tell you that auto-turn and the old ATC are the same thing. They are not. *ATC required a lever to actuate it* and the auto-turn is, well, auto. No levers, switches or buttons. I have read users of the ATC complaining about wrestling with their machines constantly and I can't imagine that with the auto-turn.
> It's also not powered. The operator makes the machine turn, but it is pretty much effortless and it is pretty much a zero radius turn if you want it to be. I can't speak to what it will do on a side hill, because I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and it's flatter than your kitchen floor here, but I'm pretty confident in saying, you'll be happy with it.
> If you have any more questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
> Good luck.
> Larry


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## Blue Hill

GreatCanadian said:


> Hi all,
> Just wanted to clarify something. The text that I've emphasized below is NOT correct. ATC does NOT require a lever to activate. Hence my confusion, and my many posts across many forums trying to decipher the difference in ATC and the new zero-turn of Ariens. My neighbors blower has the trigger differential, and my 2013 Platinum has the ATC. They are NOT the same thing. My blower can spin around on a dime. Easily, with no lever. What I am trying to figure out is how it is different from the new zero-turn, and it seems like noone can tell me.
> 
> Back to another point. Some here have been wondering about the ATC, and if they should get it. From my point of view, if I had my time back I would choose the trigger differential. They way the wheels stay locked until I command them to unlock.


Sorry, Great Canadian, my bad. All I can tell you is that 2014 is the first year for the Auto-turn. Personally, I was out blowing snow for 4 solid hours last Sunday and it works just great. I guess you'll have to go to a dealer and look for yourself.
Good luck.
Larry


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## GreatCanadian

Hello Seaox,
Sorry it took so long to get back to you on this. Haven't been on the forum in a while. I did not look at the PRO model when looking at snowblowers. The size of my driveway does not warrant that kind of expendenture on a snowblower. That being said, the PRO model is a very sturdy machine. It has a larger auger, a solid auger shaft, and is in general a tougher machine. If the price doesn't bother you, then buy it.

Now, to the ATC. There have been some posts here that lead me to believe that some people have a misunderstanding of what the ATC is. The ATC does NOT use a trigger to activate. It works by releasing power to the inside wheel (if you turn left, then the left wheel is the inside wheel, and vice versa) when you start to turn the machine. This makes it very easy to turn the snowblower. However, it also makes it easier for the snowblower to turn when you don't want it to. I constantly struggle to keep my machine going in a straight line. If the bucket or skidshoe hooks in something, then the snowblower "thinks" that I want to make a turn and thus releases power to the wheel. I have to immediately correct this or the machine will continue to turn in that direction. This is a continuous battle. I do believe on a good flat surface, with no obstacles (ruts, frozen or compacted snow), that the system would be a dream. But that's not my case. My conditions don't offer equal resistance across the bucket, and I believe that is the problem for me. But again, ATC is not a trigger-activated system. That's been stated here in this thread a few times, but is incorrect. The new Auto-turn is supposedly improved, but I have yet to find out how. Snowman has posted "the auto-turn releases power from the interior wheel for tighter turning radii, has a wet sump for longer life, and unlocks faster than the old system". So the wet sump and faster unlocking seem different. But my ATC unlocks immediately, and I do not see that as a positive.



seaox said:


> Greetings Great Canadian: I am a new member & noted you have a 2013 Ariens Platinum 30.
> In US this Platinum model is $600.00 less than the PRO model. But I question if there is really much difference. Did you compare the two?? How is your Platinum holding up?? Have you had any improvement with the Auto-Turn performance since February 2013??
> 
> I live on coast north of Boston so we get mix of rain & snow so I need machine with engine that can throw heavy snow. Thx.


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## GreatCanadian

Hey Blue Hill, no need to apologize. Yes, 2014 is the first year for auto-turn, but it's not the first year for triggerless differential. The ATC and Auto-turn have been mystifying me, apparently you, and apparently many others since the auto-turn was first mentioned by Ariens. I have the ATC. I, personally, am just interested in trying to figure out the performance difference, and I am yet to find that. I know how they work, but am wondering if there is actually any difference at all.



Blue Hill said:


> Sorry, Great Canadian, my bad. All I can tell you is that 2014 is the first year for the Auto-turn. Personally, I was out blowing snow for 4 solid hours last Sunday and it works just great. I guess you'll have to go to a dealer and look for yourself.
> Good luck.
> Larry


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## Blue Hill

Luckily for me, GC, I never experienced any of your troubles with mine. I guess that's why they changed it. I can only imagine your frustration. I was mistakenly under the impression that the ATC was trigger controlled. My old Dad always used to tell me that it's a darned poor day if you don't learn something!


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## GreatCanadian

There are so many mixed reviews on the ATC. Some have issues like me, and others find it a dream to use. I am beginning to believe that it is the terrain. I have purchased the big skids from snowblowerskids.com hoping they will help me glide over obstructions a little easier. Hoping for a snowfall soon!!


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## JRHAWK9

Seeing the ATC on the 2013's is a -HILLIARD AUTO-LOK- and seems to be a bolt-on, I wonder if this new Auto-Turn is also a bolt-on and can be bolted in place of the Hilliard Unit in order to upgrade it..??


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## JRHAWK9

I just looked at the IPL's for both the 2013 and 2014 M.Y. Pro 32 and they both list the same part number for the differential. It's Ariens part number 00866000. Not really sure what all changed with the new 2014's........??


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## dbert

Not sure what models this applies to (2013/14, something else, nothing here), but I found this odd.

_While the machine moves in a straight path in a two-wheeled application, both wheels have positive drive. When the machine turns left or right, *the inner wheel will be the drive whee*l and the outer wheel can move at its own speed independent of the inner wheel. When the machine is returned to a straight path, both wheels once again have positive drive._

from
http://www.hilliardcorp.com/media/18100/ALD-2-AutoLok-Differential.pdf


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## Snowmann

JRHAWK9 said:


> Seeing the ATC on the 2013's is a -HILLIARD AUTO-LOK- and seems to be a bolt-on, I wonder if this new Auto-Turn is also a bolt-on and can be bolted in place of the Hilliard Unit in order to upgrade it..??


Affirmative.


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## TheHolyCannoli

dbert said:


> Not sure what models this applies to (2013/14, something else, nothing here), but I found this odd.
> 
> _While the machine moves in a straight path in a two-wheeled application, both wheels have positive drive. When the machine turns left or right, *the inner wheel will be the drive whee*l and the outer wheel can move at its own speed independent of the inner wheel. When the machine is returned to a straight path, both wheels once again have positive drive._
> 
> from
> http://www.hilliardcorp.com/media/18100/ALD-2-AutoLok-Differential.pdf


That really is strange...just received the P24 today and was playing with the auto turn feature. I could have sworn the outer wheel was the drive wheel, especially since the inner wheel would completely stop and even rotate in reverse when performing a "zero-turn".


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## JRHAWK9

Snowmann said:


> Affirmative.


That's good to know.  What is the part number for the newer Auto-Turn differential? Like I mentioned above, the IPL's I found on Arien's site show the same part number for the 2013 and 2014 differential.


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## JRHAWK9

Here's an Arien's You Tube link to show you how it works.


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## GreatCanadian

TheHolyCannoli said:


> That really is strange...just received the P24 today and was playing with the auto turn feature. I could have sworn the outer wheel was the drive wheel, especially since the inner wheel would completely stop and even rotate in reverse when performing a "zero-turn".


As far as I am concerned, you are 100% correct. If the inner wheel was the drive wheel then I would not have to battle my machine like I do. When in drive, and you intentionally turn the blower to the left for example, the left (inner) wheel will not be the drive wheel. You can continue your turn where the inner wheel is not rotating at all, depending on how fast you make your turn.


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## GreatCanadian

JRHAWK9 said:


> I just looked at the IPL's for both the 2013 and 2014 M.Y. Pro 32 and they both list the same part number for the differential. It's Ariens part number 00866000. Not really sure what all changed with the new 2014's........??


That would make sense to me, because from all I've read they perform the same. It may have a wet sump, but the performance seems to be the same (from what information I can find - and I have searched extensively). Some descriptions state that the new diff unlocks quicker, but I can's see how that can be, as the slightest little turn unlocks mine. Hence my trouble. Hook a piece of ice, or if the skid hooks a piece of driveway or lip of a sidewalk, and you better hang on and work your guts out trying to keep it straight, because as soon as that happens the diff unlocks.


----------



## docfletcher

The ATC and Auto turn are 2 different differentials made by two different companies.


----------



## JRHAWK9

docfletcher said:


> The ATC and Auto turn are 2 different differentials made by two different companies.


Who makes the Auto Turn one? I wonder if the Auto Turn is the "updated" replacement for both the ATC and Auto Turn differentials...?? That would explain the same part number for both 2013 and 2014 MY's.


----------



## Blue Hill

The best person to answer this one is likely Snowmann. He works for Ariens.


----------



## docfletcher

I've seen the name here on the board in one thread or another, but I can't remember the company name of the for the .ACT


----------



## JRHAWK9

docfletcher said:


> I've seen the name here on the board in one thread or another, but I can't remember the company name of the for the .ACT



ATC is made by Hilliard.....

Drivetrain Clutches - Hilliard Corporation


----------



## GreatCanadian

Still doesn't tell me that they are any different. One is a Chevrolet S10, the other a GMC S15. I know I more than likely incorrect, but still, noone has been able to tell me the functional difference in the ATC and the AutoTurn.


----------



## JRHAWK9

GreatCanadian said:


> Still doesn't tell me that they are any different. One is a Chevrolet S10, the other a GMC S15. I know I more than likely incorrect, but still, noone has been able to tell me the functional difference in the ATC and the AutoTurn.


That's not a very good analogy, as the S10 and S15 are both made by the same company.......GM......and therefore ARE basically the same thing


----------



## GreatCanadian

JRHAWK9 said:


> That's not a very good analogy, as the S10 and S15 are both made by the same company.......GM......and therefore ARE basically the same thing


Then who makes the autoturn?


----------



## JRHAWK9

GreatCanadian said:


> Then who makes the autoturn?


I don't know and would like to find out as well. I was basing my comment on docfletcher's response stating they are made by two different companies.

Somebody with a new 2014 needs to pop off the bottom cover and take some photos of their Auto-Turn differential. I can get photos of my 2013 ATC Hilliard one.


----------



## GreatCanadian

JRHAWK9 said:


> I don't know and would like to find out as well. I was basing my comment on docfletcher's response stating they are made by two different companies.
> 
> Somebody with a new 2014 needs to pop off the bottom cover and take some photos of their Auto-Turn differential. I can get photos of my 2013 ATC Hilliard one.


Not disputing you in the least, but until someone can tell me who makes it, or the functional difference, then my anology stands.  My old S10. I put 200,000 miles on that and sold it for a thousand bucks! Enough dog hairs in it to make a blanket! Anyway, if you find any info regarding this issue, please post it. I will as well. I have certainly been looking!


----------



## JRHAWK9

Maybe I'll swing into the local Ariens dealer in the next day or two and see what they have to say on the topic. I'm guessing they don't know either though. They are right down the road from where I work.


----------



## GreatCanadian

Good idea. I have to pass by my dealer on the way home from work in the evenings. If they're open after quittin' time I'll drop in.


----------



## docfletcher

General Transmission. Ariens Co-engineered with this company to make the Auto steer.

Uses a wet sump for longer life, quicker release, turn on a dime, and has hot coffee waiting for you when you come out to your snow blower.


----------



## Garnetmica

Better yet, just visit your Ariens dealer, they have examples out in the open to play with:

Auto Turn


----------



## JRHAWK9

Garnetmica said:


> Better yet, just visit your Ariens dealer, they have examples out in the open to play with:
> 
> Auto Turn
> 
> Ariens Auto Turn - YouTube


that's the same video I posted above in post 53....


----------



## ntertainment

Just got an Ariens deluxe 30". we got a lot of snow last two days. I noticed that when I got to some crusted snow, the tires (both) would not spin. If I rocked it back and forth they would move a little bit, but not much. I ended up having to slide it sideways and take very smalls swaths of it. Maybe the machine thought I was trying to turn both ways? I would like to put chains on the machine, but if the tires are not spinning then chains wouldn't help much. Any thoughts?


----------



## Shryp

ntertainment said:


> Just got an Ariens deluxe 30". we got a lot of snow last two days. I noticed that when I got to some crusted snow, the tires (both) would not spin. If I rocked it back and forth they would move a little bit, but not much. I ended up having to slide it sideways and take very smalls swaths of it. Maybe the machine thought I was trying to turn both ways? I would like to put chains on the machine, but if the tires are not spinning then chains wouldn't help much. Any thoughts?


Could be the friction disc / drive lever needs tightened a bit.


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## Blue Hill

That would be my guess too. Look on page 29 of your manual. It explains the adjustment.
Larry


----------



## Snowmann

Adjust friction disk cable and shift rod trunion.


----------



## ntertainment

I ran this snowblower for about hour and then couldn't get it started again. It had a lot of things that weren't working properly so I took it back. Got a new one and it's awesome. Wheels spin all the time. 

It was missing sheer pin, the wheels didn't turn when it got stuck, and I couldn't start it. I didn't want to get stuck with a machine that would be a lemon so I took it back.


----------



## Blue Hill

ntertainment said:


> I ran this snowblower for about hour and then couldn't get it started again. It had a lot of things that weren't working properly so I took it back. Got a new one and it's awesome. Wheels spin all the time.
> 
> It was missing sheer pin, the wheels didn't turn when it got stuck, and I couldn't start it. I didn't want to get stuck with a machine that would be a lemon so I took it back.


Let me guess. Wait, don't tell me... Ummm, you bought it at a big box store?


----------



## JRHAWK9

OK, just got off the phone with Ariens Tech after talking to a couple dealers who couldn't help me. 

The previous years ATC was indeed made by Hilliard and was the Hilliard Auto-Lok.

This years Auto Turn is made by a French company called France Reducteurs (Reducer), which looks to be related to General Transmission in some way. It's NOT fluid filled and runs dry. It's very similar in design to their Zero Turn differentials and has a gear ratcheting system which actually spins the inside wheel backwards in order to make quicker turns. The Auto Turn is a direct swap for the ATC. The part number for the Auto Turn is: 04584100. They are actually including the Auto Turn in all the kits they sell for converting the non ATC/Auto Turn blowers to Auto Turn, whereas before Auto Turn they included the ATC differential.


----------



## JRHAWK9

Old ATC part number: 00866000
New Auto Turn Part Number: 04584100

As confirmed below:
Ariens 00866000 DIFFERENTIAL- ($113.49)


----------



## docfletcher

Just got our first 3" snow here in Newtown Ct . I used the Pro 28 for the first time this day. I had to fight the auto turn at several places when going downhill along the driveway length. I believe the fault is my aged driveway itself, the problem being made worse due to the weight transfer to the front. Everywhere resistance was met the auto steer engaged, left right left and so on. When first starting uphill I had a different problem. The torque when engaging forward motion would lift the bucket up, in a bouncing up & down fashion. The only way to prevent it was to throttle down then throttle up slowly as the machine moved forward. Those that say they are constantly wrestling the machine are telling no tall tales. We plan a new drive next year so that should put the auto turn issue to rest. 

My Opinion Worth Price Charged...  

.


----------



## GreatCanadian

And there you go. This is the exact information I am looking for. I am assuming yours is the 2014 with AutoTurn? It's functioning exactly like my 2013 Auto Traction Control.

THAT BEING SAID, I may have a solution. I installed the skids from Snowblowerskids.com because I hoped (or read) that the extra length on the skids would help prevent the bucket from hanging up on uneven ruts or sidewalk lips. Last night I used my snowblower for the first time this year, and the difference is like night and day. I cold practically control the blower with one hand. It was a breeze to use, and NOW I can see the benefit of ATC. However, it was only a 4 inch snowfall, so we'll see what happens when we get a big dump - sure to happen at least half a dozen times this winter. So far so good!! Anyone wants to see pics of the skids let me know.


----------



## docfletcher

Yeah, it's the 2014 model with auto turn. I would have to say Ariens did not test the auto turn feature on all surface types in uphill and downhill situations. Thanks for the tip on the skids. Such skids would also allow for raising the scraper 2 or 3 inch's above surface level so I get make a path to my shed. If you had it to do over would you have bought the Toro instead?


----------



## RattlerGUNZ

I have 2013 D28+ with trigger to lock and unlock, used it 2 time so far it works great.No problems like everyone with ATC or Auto-Turn.That's why I went with the trigger model,I want to turn it not the machine.


----------



## docfletcher

Well, whats done is done, in retrospect though, I think the big model Toro would have been a better choice for me. We might have a bigger storm coming soon so I'll have another go at it. The torque lifting the bucket issue may not happen when more snow is in the bucket to weight it down. The KING has been dethroned at my house.


----------



## brewcity

*minimal but noticable jerking*

Just wanted to weigh in on the Auto-turn feature. About a month ago I bought the 2014 Ariens 28" Deluxe blower. Got our first measureable snow 2 days ago...about 5" of light fluffy snow. Like others, I also experienced some back & forth jerking when encountering any kind of resistance. My assumption is that this is because of the sensitivity of the Auto-turn feature, where the blower "thought" I wanted to turn. Examples of when the jerking happened...passing over tire tracks, approaching the curb risers at the end of my driveway. When blowing virgin snow areas that had been untouched, the blower worked great. 

I'm not thrilled with this discovery, but I don't find it THAT annoying...yet. Overall, I'm very pleased with the performance of this blower and believe it is an outstanding quality machine. I'd love to know if it's possible to adjust the sensitivity of the Auto-turn feature to make it less, but for now I can live with it as-is. 

I'll also add that I didn't find it as easy to turn the blower on a dime...as if you were mowing the lawn (that back and forth method). However, it was my first time using this blower so to be fair I want to give it another try before passing ultimate judgement. Just don't recall it being "easy" or effortless to turn the thing. I'll repost when I have another opportunity to use it.


----------



## Blue Hill

Welcome to SBF brewcity!


----------



## GreatCanadian

Just to comment on the last few posts.:

docfletcher and rattler, no I would not have purchased the Toro. I would have purchased the Ariens Deluxe with trigger differential. Next door neighbor has that one and it works like a charm.

Brewcity, your assumption that the blower "thinks" you want to turn are my thoughts exactly. I have posted extensively on this in other threads, and I believe that the ATC and AutoTurn (2014) will both "think" this way. Makes for a rough ride sometimes I tell ya!! But hopefully the new skids will help alleviate this issue. Seems ok so far.


----------



## brewcity

Blue Hill - thanks for the warm welcome.

GC - thanks for your response. I'll have to try out your trick with the new skids.


----------



## GreatCanadian

The new skids worked amazingly well last night. The easiet time I've had using this snowblower. However, I am waiting for some colder weather (frozen snow) and more volume before I high five myself.


----------



## Notes

GreatCanadian - Which skids? 2014 Platinum 24. Used it today for the 1st time. Nothing argued with it. It’s a brute. But wasn’t as impressed with the turning as I’d hoped I would be. Also (sorry for the negative vibes) I didn’t even notice the heated hand grips. Maybe there’s a learning curve involved here. Lots of levers! ;=)


----------



## GreatCanadian

My handgrips don't get very hot either. I will get you the model number for the skids I have and get back to you.


----------



## GreatCanadian

I got them from snowblowerskids.com
The ones that will fit your machine are ASC0310-B


----------



## Notes

Thanks! Just ordered them. Our driveway drops down a lot right by the street. Hope these help.


----------



## GreatCanadian

No problem. Good luck. Post back after you try them and let me know how they work.


----------



## Runner50

Notes said:


> Thanks! Just ordered them. Our driveway drops down a lot right by the street. Hope these help.


I have a set & they work great on my uneven, gravel driveway......very happy with them! Good luck.


----------



## docfletcher

JRHAWK9 said:


> OK, just got off the phone with Ariens Tech after talking to a couple dealers who couldn't help me.
> 
> The previous years ATC was indeed made by Hilliard and was the Hilliard Auto-Lok.
> 
> This years Auto Turn is made by a French company called France Reducteurs (Reducer), which looks to be related to General Transmission in some way. It's NOT fluid filled and runs dry. It's very similar in design to their Zero Turn differentials and has a gear ratcheting system which actually spins the inside wheel backwards in order to make quicker turns. The Auto Turn is a direct swap for the ATC. The part number for the Auto Turn is: 04584100. They are actually including the Auto Turn in all the kits they sell for converting the non ATC/Auto Turn blowers to Auto Turn, whereas before Auto Turn they included the ATC differential.


I have had a few online chats with Ariens representatives, I'm not sure if they are techs or not. However it was said that the auto turn was tested various surfaces for two seasons and the auto turn never had these unintended activation issues. That said, I'd like to ask and get clarification on the auto turn feature. I'm not sure if it's DRY type or WET Sump. My previous understanding was wet sump, which I got from Shryp, who posted a quote about it from Snowmann.


----------



## Jackmels

After Seeing Some 5,000 posts on this Subject, Here's My Take on the Auto Turn System Using a few Quotes From Murphy....

1) If it can break, it will, but only after the warranty expires.

2) The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult to fabricate and impossible to service.

3) A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.

4) Any device requiring service or adjustment will be least accessible.

5) ****If it's good, they'll stop making it.****


----------



## Garnetmica

Notes said:


> GreatCanadian - Which skids? 2014 Platinum 24. Used it today for the 1st time. Nothing argued with it. It’s a brute. But wasn’t as impressed with the turning as I’d hoped I would be. Also (sorry for the negative vibes) I didn’t even notice the heated hand grips. Maybe there’s a learning curve involved here. Lots of levers! ;=)


My handgrips get noticeably warmer faster with the headlight off. I installed a switch and they get warm quick now.


----------



## Blue Hill

Great idea Garnet! I need to get that light switch installed.


----------



## GreatCanadian

Yep, exactly what I find. However, my driveway isn't perfectly flat. I did install new skids which seem to have made a huge difference. But that was a very small snowfall. Blizzard here now so will get a good test in the morning.


----------



## Brucebotti

I used my new Deluxe 28 plus with Auto-Turn for the first time today and I love it. It works exactly as advertised and is so easy to turn for this 63 year old....
Bruce


----------



## stujensen

*Ariens Auto Turn in my opinion is awful*

I've been using snow blowers for 20 years with various turn systems. My driveway is paved, level and double wide. This year I purchased the 2014 Ariens Deluxe 30 and took my 10yr old Simplicity (which I love) to my vacation home in VT.

I was "really" skeptical about the auto turn. Anytime you put in a system that is suppose to "think" it knows what your doing usually doesn't...and in this case the auto turn absolutely left its brain at the shop. I'm a guy that "never" writes a review...and I'm so mad at this machine I had to vent.

If your drive way contains perfect virgin snow, then it works...but who's drive has that. You have packed car tracks, city plow put a 4ft bank of ice at the end, packed snow and ice from cars in your drive etc.

So how does auto turn work in "Real Life"
When trying to clear the pack snow from your car tracks the auto turn engages with every little bump to the blade. I have to fight it all the way up the drive...I can't keep it straight for 1ft. When cutting close to your car and the blade bumps some ice that melted from your car, the auto turn send the machine right into your car...not nice. When trying to drive the machine into the snow bank at the end of the driveway, again the auto turn keeps engaging making the machine literally deflect off of it. At one point I was screaming at the thing.

With a locking differential, I could use one hand on the machine to move the chute, change speeds...I just walked behind it. I challenge any Arien rep to post a video showing one hand operation scraping down packed car tracks...something my kid could do with a locking differential. And let me see them navigate really close to their expensive car trying to cut a path through the packed snow without putting a nice ding in it.
Honestly, after working with this for about 2hrs after a big storm, I would enjoy taking a 3lb sledge to it... instead I had to have several drinks. Most frustrating machine I've ever used. I plan to make a video on the next storm showing this machine zigzagging all over the drive. It's almost comical when you try using one hand and let the thing decide where it's going.

To bad...because it performs well in most other areas.


----------



## Brucebotti

stujensen said:


> I've been using snow blowers for 20 years with various turn systems. My driveway is paved, level and double wide. This year I purchased the 2014 Ariens Deluxe 30 and took my 10yr old Simplicity (which I love) to my vacation home in VT.
> 
> I was "really" skeptical about the auto turn. Anytime you put in a system that is suppose to "think" it knows what your doing usually doesn't...and in this case the auto turn absolutely left its brain at the shop. I'm a guy that "never" writes a review...and I'm so mad at this machine I had to vent.
> 
> If your drive way contains perfect virgin snow, then it works...but who's drive has that. You have packed car tracks, city plow put a 4ft bank of ice at the end, packed snow and ice from cars in your drive etc.
> 
> So how does auto turn work in "Real Life"
> When trying to clear the pack snow from your car tracks the auto turn engages with every little bump to the blade. I have to fight it all the way up the drive...I can't keep it straight for 1ft. When cutting close to your car and the blade bumps some ice that melted from your car, the auto turn send the machine right into your car...not nice. When trying to drive the machine into the snow bank at the end of the driveway, again the auto turn keeps engaging making the machine literally deflect off of it. At one point I was screaming at the thing.
> 
> With a locking differential, I could use one hand on the machine to move the chute, change speeds...I just walked behind it. I challenge any Arien rep to post a video showing one hand operation scraping down packed car tracks...something my kid could do with a locking differential. And let me see them navigate really close to their expensive car trying to cut a path through the packed snow without putting a nice ding in it.
> Honestly, after working with this for about 2hrs after a big storm, I would enjoy taking a 3lb sledge to it... instead I had to have several drinks. Most frustrating machine I've ever used. I plan to make a video on the next storm showing this machine zigzagging all over the drive. It's almost comical when you try using one hand and let the thing decide where it's going.
> 
> To bad...because it performs well in most other areas.


I'm really surprised. Mine seems to work flawlessly. It works so well that I don't even pay any attention to it. It seems to track pretty straight and true despite my wife's tracks in the fresh new snow (she's gotta get out and shop).

Bruce


----------



## Blue Hill

Brucebotti said:


> I'm really surprised. Mine seems to work flawlessly. It works so well that I don't even pay any attention to it. It seems to track pretty straight and true despite my wife's tracks in the fresh new snow (she's gotta get out and shop).
> 
> Bruce


Mine too Bruce. I never have trouble with it wandering. She wants to ride up over the tire tracks, but I think I need weight on the front end. As far as I'm concerned the auto-turn works great.


----------



## ken53

*Maybe you have a defective unit.*



stujensen said:


> I've been using snow blowers for 20 years with various turn systems. My driveway is paved, level and double wide. This year I purchased the 2014 Ariens Deluxe 30 and took my 10yr old Simplicity (which I love) to my vacation home in VT.
> 
> I was "really" skeptical about the auto turn. Anytime you put in a system that is suppose to "think" it knows what your doing usually doesn't...and in this case the auto turn absolutely left its brain at the shop. I'm a guy that "never" writes a review...and I'm so mad at this machine I had to vent.
> 
> If your drive way contains perfect virgin snow, then it works...but who's drive has that. You have packed car tracks, city plow put a 4ft bank of ice at the end, packed snow and ice from cars in your drive etc.
> 
> So how does auto turn work in "Real Life"
> When trying to clear the pack snow from your car tracks the auto turn engages with every little bump to the blade. I have to fight it all the way up the drive...I can't keep it straight for 1ft. When cutting close to your car and the blade bumps some ice that melted from your car, the auto turn send the machine right into your car...not nice. When trying to drive the machine into the snow bank at the end of the driveway, again the auto turn keeps engaging making the machine literally deflect off of it. At one point I was screaming at the thing.
> 
> With a locking differential, I could use one hand on the machine to move the chute, change speeds...I just walked behind it. I challenge any Arien rep to post a video showing one hand operation scraping down packed car tracks...something my kid could do with a locking differential. And let me see them navigate really close to their expensive car trying to cut a path through the packed snow without putting a nice ding in it.
> Honestly, after working with this for about 2hrs after a big storm, I would enjoy taking a 3lb sledge to it... instead I had to have several drinks. Most frustrating machine I've ever used. I plan to make a video on the next storm showing this machine zigzagging all over the drive. It's almost comical when you try using one hand and let the thing decide where it's going.
> 
> To bad...because it performs well in most other areas.


I am sorry to here you don't like Auto Turn. You might want to check with the dealer you bought it from. Maybe you have a defective unit.

Keep in mind the auto industry has gone thru many years of a love hate response from inventions like axles with Positraction, Sure-Grip, Traction Lock, and many more. Every car today has a form of an auto differential. To this day, some off roaders still prefer a strait axle. Ariens still makes some models that have the strait axles when locked, although they decided to use Auto Turn on their pro models. If a strait axle is more to your liking I would talk to your dealer before you use yours to much.

My Auto Turn Ariens works to my liking and I would not go back to my old locked up strait axle that I wrestled with for 20 years. A snow blower can be a fun tool so just make sure you get one you like.

Check out this link:





Ken


----------



## Blue Hill

Great video Ken! Here's an article that really addresses why a few folks are having trouble with the auto-turn.
Problems With Ariens Auto-Turn Snow Blowers? - MovingSnow.com


----------



## JRHAWK9

stujensen said:


> I've been using snow blowers for 20 years with various turn systems. My driveway is paved, level and double wide. This year I purchased the 2014 Ariens Deluxe 30 and took my 10yr old Simplicity (which I love) to my vacation home in VT.
> 
> I was "really" skeptical about the auto turn. Anytime you put in a system that is suppose to "think" it knows what your doing usually doesn't...and in this case the auto turn absolutely left its brain at the shop. I'm a guy that "never" writes a review...and I'm so mad at this machine I had to vent.
> 
> If your drive way contains perfect virgin snow, then it works...but who's drive has that. You have packed car tracks, city plow put a 4ft bank of ice at the end, packed snow and ice from cars in your drive etc.
> 
> So how does auto turn work in "Real Life"
> When trying to clear the pack snow from your car tracks the auto turn engages with every little bump to the blade. I have to fight it all the way up the drive...I can't keep it straight for 1ft. When cutting close to your car and the blade bumps some ice that melted from your car, the auto turn send the machine right into your car...not nice. When trying to drive the machine into the snow bank at the end of the driveway, again the auto turn keeps engaging making the machine literally deflect off of it. At one point I was screaming at the thing.
> 
> With a locking differential, I could use one hand on the machine to move the chute, change speeds...I just walked behind it. I challenge any Arien rep to post a video showing one hand operation scraping down packed car tracks...something my kid could do with a locking differential. And let me see them navigate really close to their expensive car trying to cut a path through the packed snow without putting a nice ding in it.
> Honestly, after working with this for about 2hrs after a big storm, I would enjoy taking a 3lb sledge to it... instead I had to have several drinks. Most frustrating machine I've ever used. I plan to make a video on the next storm showing this machine zigzagging all over the drive. It's almost comical when you try using one hand and let the thing decide where it's going.
> 
> To bad...because it performs well in most other areas.


wow, that really sucks. 

I have the previous years ATC, which is VERY similar. I haven't had any issues with it at all. Up until this year we even had a gravel driveway. I've thought about purchasing the Auto Turn differential and swapping it in place of the ATC, but I like the way my ATC works, so I should probably leave things alone...lol


----------



## ken53

Blue Hill said:


> Great video Ken! Here's an article that really addresses why a few folks are having trouble with the auto-turn.
> Problems With Ariens Auto-Turn Snow Blowers? - MovingSnow.com


Good reading Larry.

I hope you don't mind... I started a new thread linking to the review, the video, and your finding of the article.

Thanks for your post.

PS its snowing here right now (-:
Looks like the new blower gets more break in hours today (-:

Ken


----------



## Blue Hill

ken53 said:


> Good reading Larry.
> 
> I hope you don't mind... I started a new thread linking to the review, the video, and your finding of the article.
> 
> Thanks for your post.
> 
> PS its snowing here right now (-:
> Looks like the new blower gets more break in hours today (-:
> 
> Ken


Go Hard Ken!


----------



## stujensen

stujensen said:


> I've been using snow blowers for 20 years with various turn systems. My driveway is paved, level and double wide. This year I purchased the 2014 Ariens Deluxe 30 and took my 10yr old Simplicity (which I love) to my vacation home in VT.
> 
> I was "really" skeptical about the auto turn. Anytime you put in a system that is suppose to "think" it knows what your doing usually doesn't...and in this case the auto turn absolutely left its brain at the shop. I'm a guy that "never" writes a review...and I'm so mad at this machine I had to vent.
> 
> If your drive way contains perfect virgin snow, then it works...but who's drive has that. You have packed car tracks, city plow put a 4ft bank of ice at the end, packed snow and ice from cars in your drive etc.
> 
> So how does auto turn work in "Real Life"
> When trying to clear the pack snow from your car tracks the auto turn engages with every little bump to the blade. I have to fight it all the way up the drive...I can't keep it straight for 1ft. When cutting close to your car and the blade bumps some ice that melted from your car, the auto turn send the machine right into your car...not nice. When trying to drive the machine into the snow bank at the end of the driveway, again the auto turn keeps engaging making the machine literally deflect off of it. At one point I was screaming at the thing.
> 
> With a locking differential, I could use one hand on the machine to move the chute, change speeds...I just walked behind it. I challenge any Arien rep to post a video showing one hand operation scraping down packed car tracks...something my kid could do with a locking differential. And let me see them navigate really close to their expensive car trying to cut a path through the packed snow without putting a nice ding in it.
> Honestly, after working with this for about 2hrs after a big storm, I would enjoy taking a 3lb sledge to it... instead I had to have several drinks. Most frustrating machine I've ever used. I plan to make a video on the next storm showing this machine zigzagging all over the drive. It's almost comical when you try using one hand and let the thing decide where it's going.
> 
> To bad...because it performs well in most other areas.


Thanks for some feedback. Maybe my machine is defective. This is my second one. The first one would not start...no spark..DOA...so my luck is pretty bad.

Interesting reply back from their customer support:
_If there are times when you have packed snow or ice under one wheel and pavement under the other, the auto-turn might sense you are trying to turn._

Seriously, it's snow. When wouldn't this be true...you will always have uneven traction.


----------



## JRHAWK9

I think I'm going to pick up the new Auto Turn differential and swap it out in place of my current ATC differential. I just had the lower cover off today to check things out and it looks to be a piece of cake to swap differentials. I've have no issues with my Hilliard Auto-Lok unit (ATC), but I'd like to see how the Auto Turn compares to it and see which one I like best.


----------



## sscotsman

stujensen said:


> Interesting reply back from their customer support:
> _If there are times when you have packed snow or ice under one wheel and pavement under the other, the auto-turn might sense you are trying to turn._
> 
> Seriously, it's snow. When wouldn't this be true...you will always have uneven traction.


It would almost never be true..
im taking them literally, you are taking that far too broadly.

Packed snow or Ice under one wheel.
clean pavement under the other wheel.

It almost never happens that the two sides would be that radically different.

Scot


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## mswlogo

JRHAWK9 said:


> I think I'm going to pick up the new Auto Turn differential and swap it out in place of my current ATC differential. I just had the lower cover off today to check things out and it looks to be a piece of cake to swap differentials. I've have no issues with my Hilliard Auto-Lok unit (ATC), but I'd like to see how the Auto Turn compares to it and see which one I like best.


I think a lot of folks would take great interest on test like that.


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## mswlogo

sscotsman said:


> It would almost never be true..
> im taking them literally, you are taking that far too broadly.
> 
> Packed snow or Ice under one wheel.
> clean pavement under the other wheel.
> 
> It almost never happens that the two sides would be that radically different.
> 
> Scot


I did that exact test in parking lot at dealer today with autoturn machine. 

One tire on snow, other on dry pavement and I tried to hold it back. 

It pulled straight as an arrow. 

It also turned effortlessly on dry pavement. 

Uneven traction or uneven load is very common.


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## mswlogo

JRHAWK9 said:


> I think I'm going to pick up the new Auto Turn differential and swap it out in place of my current ATC differential. I just had the lower cover off today to check things out and it looks to be a piece of cake to swap differentials. I've have no issues with my Hilliard Auto-Lok unit (ATC), but I'd like to see how the Auto Turn compares to it and see which one I like best.


I think a lot of folks would take great interest on test like that.


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## JRHAWK9

mswlogo said:


> I think a lot of folks would take great interest on test like that.


I just ordered one.....will be a couple weeks before it comes in with the holidays and such.


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## TheHolyCannoli

By any chance, does somebody have a link to the mechanical differences between the 2 drive systems?


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## Notes

FWIW: I’ve used this machine twice. Didn’t like it the 1st time. Long driveway. It was like a car that needed an alignment as it pulled hard to one side. Installed the skids mentioned previously in this thread. It was either the skids or the fact that I quit fighting the machine - or a combination of both - but I really like it now. I’m just a paying customer, and I would recommend the skids. I think they make a difference.


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## Snowmann

Notes said:


> FWIW: I’ve used this machine twice. Didn’t like it the 1st time. Long driveway. It was like a car that needed an alignment as it pulled hard to one side. Installed the skids mentioned previously in this thread. It was either the skids or the fact that I quit fighting the machine - or a combination of both - but I really like it now. I’m just a paying customer, and I would recommend the skids. I think they make a difference.


 Be sure to also loosen the 4 bolts attaching the frame to the housing (unit on a flat surface), rotate the h-bars back an inch or two, push down on the impeller housing tunnel, then retighten. This will ensure the housing brackets are fully seated in on the frame rail. This misalignment has generally been the culprit with Auto-turn machines that pull to one side. You should then readjust the runners and scraper blade.


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## docfletcher

Well, the long and short of a problem I opened with Ariens customer support is simply this...

* Subject*AUTO TURN CONSUMER * Discussion Thread** Response Via Email (Dan)*12/30/2013 08:49 AMDonald

The operation you are experiencing is correct.

The force against the blower housing will have an effect on the Auto-Turn option.

The machine is also set up correct.

Daniel C. Haese 
* Customer By Email (Donald Fletcher)*12/29/2013 01:55 PMThe machine was set up and delivered by Newtown Power Equipment here in Newtown Ct. I can only assume that they have set it up correctly. When the auger housing encounters resistance at either corner (like a clump of hardened snow or raised crack) the auto turn feature starts. This I believe is also true if the skids meet resistance. Here in Newtown both recent snow's have only been about 4". So maybe it would do better in deeper snow? 
: [email protected] To: [email protected] 
Date: 
Fri, 27 Dec 2013 08:10:00 -0600 
Subject: AUTO TURN CONSUMER [Incident: 131212-000143]* Response Via Email (Dan)*12/27/2013 08:10 AMDonald

The proper set up of the blower housing to the ground has a major affect on the operation of the Auto turn differential.

The only contact of the blower housing to the ground is the skid shoes on the side of the blower housing.

The housing needs to sit flat across the scraper blade under the housing.

The skid shoes need to have equal pressure on the both sides of the housing.

When this is done the machine will have a positive drive differential going forward and a true differential in the turns right or left.

We have seen the snow coming out of the housing and we are currently working on the correction for this issue

Please feel free to contact me at the Ariens Company.

Daniel C. Haese



* Subject*AUTO TURN CONSUMER * Discussion Thread** Response Via Email (Dan)*12/30/2013 08:49 AMDonald

The operation you are experiencing is correct.

The force against the blower housing will have an effect on the Auto-Turn option.

The machine is also set up correct.

Daniel C. Haese


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## TheHolyCannoli

I just received a replacement Platinum 24 to replace the one that seemed to have a bent housing and misaligned pulleys....(I actually have both machines in my garage because the freight carrier still haven't scheduled a pickup date)

One can drive themselves absolutely mad trying to level out the scraper via skid shoe adjustment. Not to mention trying to concurrently get both skid shoes to touch simultaneously when the machine is returned to the ground from a tipped-backwards position. I've even used a 4ft long bubble level to check the ground where the housing was being adjusted. Even the slightest variation in my concrete-floor garage will yield different results. If I get things nearly 100% level and then move the machine a few inches and re-test to see if the skids touch at the same time, I can get completely different results.

It's a very un-scientific process that actually has quite profound effects on the functionality of the machine. In a blower without an auto turn system, there really isn't a need for such precise adjustment so a couple millimeters difference would end up being a moot point. I feel like Ariens could have designed the skids with pre-set levels of adjustments similar to how a traditional walk behind mower can have its wheels adjusted. Maybe have 3mm, 5mm, 8mm, and 10mm selectable notches for each skid shoe. It would negate the need for a perfectly level surface during adjustment, not to mention the fact that I can see the skids move/rotate ever so slightly when tightening down the bolts. Would be nice to choose a clearance setting and bolt things in place without all this other nonsense.

I think I have things fairly close to where they should be, but only time will tell. The snow should be here in the next 24-48hrs.


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## docfletcher

I was going to refrain from posting until I could be sure... But since you mention the scraper, I noticed it is down flush against the garage floor where the floor is level. The book says the scraper should be up 1/8th of a inch off the floor. Says to place a 1/8th object under the center of scraper then tighten the skids down. So to me it looks like maybe my machine is not put together quite right, perhaps readjusting the scraper position will aid in my auto steer issues?


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## TheHolyCannoli

My machine arrived, both times, not adjusted correctly. Drive cables, auger cables, skid shoes, and skid plate all needed adjustment according to the manual. Note that the skid shoes and skid plate are different components and both can be adjusted independently of each other.

I've tried various configurations over the last month trying to understand how the Auto-Turn system is affected...I don't think the skid plate touching the ground has anywhere near the effect of having either an _uneven_ skid plate that is touching the ground on one side, or uneven skid shoes as determined by the "tip-test"...meaning both skids should touch at the same time so pressure remains equal between the two. I tried setting things up so that the scraper was at least 10mm from the ground at all times and the machine still pulled hard. I really think the key is to get the shoes as even as possible first at whatever scraper height you prefer, and THEN evaluating for a level scraper. If you can't achieve both the skid bolt adjustment and the scraper bolt adjustments, then it only seems logical that the housing is bent or not aligned properly.

So, like I said before, it's a major headache that could have been solved by designing notches for preset adjustment heights.


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## docfletcher

I called the dealer today as they were closed yesterday. They in turn called Ariens who basically said it is what it is and it will do that when resistance to forward motion on one side or the other is encountered. The dealer offered to readjust the scrapper but felt it would not solve the problem. In that I totally agree.


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## jth1959

I have a 2014 Deluxe 28+ that was purchased from and set up by a small reputable dealer. After the first couple of storms I was surprised at how much I had to fight with the machine to keep it straight, maybe I wasn't used to the bigger machine compared with my previous blower. Today I decided to wait until I got home from work to clear my driveway of 6" of light dry snow. However, I had three SUV's worth of tracks to deal with. What a nightmare! I can not keep the machine straight unless it is through perfectly virgin snow on the flattest portion of my driveway any bump, rut or snow track and I'm fighting the machine. I am completely disappointed in my purchase. I'm hoping I find the blower completely out of alignment when I look it over tomorrow so I have some hope that it will get better.


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## jerry

*jerry*

Hi fellow snowblowers,

I have to add my 2 cents to your discussions about auto turn. I purchased a deluxe 28 with auto turn. I have the same problems as most of you, like wrestling a bear. I had a JD TRS 26 which performed well for 17 yrs, but had to much trouble starting it, I decided on the Ariens. I swore to my dealer this machine was broke. They took it back, and after several days called me and said everything checked out fine. I couldn't believe it. Thank God for your forum, because now I know I'm not the only one with this problem. When doing sidewalks in my development my machine pulled so hard to the right I was totally exhausted using it. I called the dealer and told him I'm completely dissatisfied with it. He's telling me I should buy a 2013 deluxe with the trigger or he's also recommending a Toro 28". The only 2013 Ariens deluxe he has is a 30". The cost would be an additional $ 200 above what I paid for the 28". Does anyone have any thoughts on which unit is better? Looking online at the Toro, the lever that operates the chute seems to be more user friendly than the Ariens, but other than that both units seem comparable. Any thoughts would be welcomed, thanks


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## ken53

*Auto-Turn Works Great*

I have to question the validity of the Auto-Turn complaints. 

Auto-Turn can not push off, or drive ahead with just one wheel under power. It is mechanically *impossible* for Auto-Turn to unwillingly steer a machine. 

"Auto-Turn" drives two wheels at equal speeds or no wheels drive at all. 

When the operator try's to turn it immediately kicks out "both" wheels. As soon as "both" wheels ether stand still, or "both" wheels are rotating at the same speed, "then, and only then", both wheels receive equal force. 

My father owned a couple of apartments. I have been using various blowers since I was 14 years old, and I am now 60. My new Auto-Turn machine handles like any straight axle machine except it is easier to turn.* Its that simple.
*
I think this subject of how Auto-Turn works might warrant it's own thread. When I get more time I might work up a post.

Everyone have a nice New Year.

Ken


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## JRHAWK9

ken53 said:


> I have to question the validity of the Auto-Turn complaints.
> 
> Auto-Turn can not push off, or drive ahead with just one wheel under power. It is mechanically *impossible* for Auto-Turn to unwillingly steer a machine.
> 
> "Auto-Turn" drives two wheels at equal speeds or no wheels drive at all.
> 
> When the operator try's to turn it immediately kicks out "both" wheels. As soon as "both" wheels ether stand still, or "both" wheels are rotating at the same speed, "then, and only then", both wheels receive equal force.
> 
> My father owned a couple of apartments. I have been using various blowers since I was 14 years old, and I am now 60. My new Auto-Turn machine handles like any straight axle machine except it is easier to turn.* Its that simple.
> *
> I think this subject of how Auto-Turn works might warrant it's own thread. When I get more time I might work up a post.
> 
> Everyone have a nice New Year.
> 
> Ken



I agree Ken. I don't have an Auto Turn differential, I have the previous years ATC. Although I do have the Auto Turn differential on order and plan on swapping it out as soon as I get it just so I can see what the difference actually is. 

I got to play with their "Auto-Turn demonstration" while at Kimps and can see what you are saying. I also got to play with my uncles new Pro 28 for a minute. It does seem to unlock much faster and easier than my ATC, especially at low low speeds. However, when I had it in 6th gear it did not seem to unlock near as easy. For the little bit I have experienced it, it seems the faster you are going the more unwilling it is to unlock. Can you confirm/deny this? For those who haven't seen how it works, click -HERE-. It's just a mechanical device with springs and gears.


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## Blue Hill

I have to say, that mine works great. I've no doubt that some of you folks are having the trouble you say you're having, but I just can't understand why or how.  I had my machine up on her nose a while back, just to have a look at her innards and I could turn both wheels in opposite directions at the same time, as easy as pie. Maybe there are some production problems that turn out some good ones and some duds. Mine always tracks as straight as an arrow. Sorry for your troubles folks.


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## ken53

JRHAWK9 said:


> I agree Ken. I don't have an Auto Turn differential, I have the previous years ATC. Although I do have the Auto Turn differential on order and plan on swapping it out as soon as I get it just so I can see what the difference actually is.
> 
> I got to play with their "Auto-Turn demonstration" while at Kimps and can see what you are saying. I also got to play with my uncles new Pro 28 for a minute. It does seem to unlock much faster and easier than my ATC, especially at low low speeds. However, when I had it in 6th gear it did not seem to unlock near as easy. For the little bit I have experienced it, it seems the faster you are going the more unwilling it is to unlock. Can you confirm/deny this? For those who haven't seen how it works, click -HERE-. It's just a mechanical device with springs and gears.


I haven't used mine at higher speeds yet, Your observations are probably correct. Maybe what could be happening is this. It might be harder to get one wheel turning faster then the other when already moving at a fast pace. Just a guess on my part.

Watching the video many times over and over myself.  I noticed that its seems to be designed to spend very little time free wheeling (disengaged). It really needs to have an unequal wheel rotation to stay free wheeling. Appears as any slight hesitation in the operators turn, it will quickly lock it up. It looks to me like 99% of the time it will be lock up like a straight axle. I notice on mine when making a large swooping type turn, I can feel its in and out action multiple times per second. This happens so quickly it doesn't effect the turning but can be felt very slightly in the handles.

When ever the roads get slippery, I see many expensive high end 4 wheel drive vehicles in the ditch along the highway. Maybe their owners should return these 4WD vehicles to the dealer because they don't track straight.  

Ken


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## docfletcher

ken53 said:


> I have to question the validity of the Auto-Turn complaints.
> 
> Auto-Turn can not push off, or drive ahead with just one wheel under power. It is mechanically *impossible* for Auto-Turn to unwillingly steer a machine.
> 
> "Auto-Turn" drives two wheels at equal speeds or no wheels drive at all.
> 
> When the operator try's to turn it immediately kicks out "both" wheels. As soon as "both" wheels ether stand still, or "both" wheels are rotating at the same speed, "then, and only then", both wheels receive equal force.
> 
> My father owned a couple of apartments. I have been using various blowers since I was 14 years old, and I am now 60. My new Auto-Turn machine handles like any straight axle machine except it is easier to turn.* Its that simple.
> *
> I think this subject of how Auto-Turn works might warrant it's own thread. When I get more time I might work up a post.
> 
> Everyone have a nice New Year.
> 
> Ken


Ken, With all due respect I believe it does not kick out both wheels. When under power & moving through turns one wheel or the other drives the machine through the turn. That's all very well and good when the operator actually initiates the turn. It's not so good when the bucket encounters resistance at either corner. Such resistance can be hard compacted snow or a raised ridge from crack in the blacktop. Or a raised transition spot, or a deep depression in the driveway etc. Any of these things and more can and do cause one wheel or the other to unlock (sometimes in rapid succession left right left cadence). It's not fun to deal with.


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## TheHolyCannoli

Got a chance to try out my replacement Platinum 24 side by side with the one (still) waiting to be picked up for return. The difference is night and day. Finally able to walk comfortably behind the machine for the entire length of the driveway without having to wrestle it to stay on track. Mind you, this was after my wife and I had driven over the fresh snow twice each, so there were several packed tire tracks that really didn't pose much of a problem in regards to steering the machine. The skid would just ride on top of the packed snow so that the scraper blade wasn't skimming as close to the pavement. I can certainly live with an additional 1/8th inch of snow remaining in those spots.


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## jth1959

docfletcher said:


> Ken, With all due respect I believe it does not kick out both wheels. When under power & moving through turns one wheel or the other drives the machine through the turn. That's all very well and good when the operator actually initiates the turn. It's not so good when the bucket encounters resistance at either corner. Such resistance can be hard compacted snow or a raised ridge from crack in the blacktop. Or a raised transition spot, or a deep depression in the driveway etc. Any of these things and more can and do cause one wheel or the other to unlock (sometimes in rapid succession left right left cadence). It's not fun to deal with.


This is exactly my issue. I have a 150' long driveway which slopes down 15' to the road for the last 75' or so. Coming up the slope is a wrestling match as I encounter any bump or the edge of the driveway. I will agree the auto turn is really nice when making quick turns but my back was killing me after doing my driveway last night from the back and forth motion. I plan on checking the setup today or tomorrow to see if that is the issue. I'm hoping the setup is the issue, if not, it's going back and I'll buy a different brand. I don't think I should need to leave a coating of snow on the driveway to make this thing work.


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## Snowmann

docfletcher said:


> Ken, With all due respect I believe it does not kick out both wheels. When under power & moving through turns one wheel or the other drives the machine through the turn. That's all very well and good when the operator actually initiates the turn. It's not so good when the bucket encounters resistance at either corner. Such resistance can be hard compacted snow or a raised ridge from crack in the blacktop. Or a raised transition spot, or a deep depression in the driveway etc. Any of these things and more can and do cause one wheel or the other to unlock (sometimes in rapid succession left right left cadence). It's not fun to deal with.


Ken is correct Docfletcher. The Auto Turn is designed such that either both wheels are locked and under power or both are unlocked and un-powered. Based on it's internal functions, there is no possibility for one wheel to be under power while the other is not. 

This is not true with the older ATC however. With that differential, the outer wheel unlocks and can freewheel/over-run while the interior wheel is powered through the turn. The steering assist feature is simply that it automatically unlocks/desynchronizes the right and left wheels from each other so you don't have to drag or scrub the tires to turn the machine as you would with a locked/pinned axle.

The advantage with the Auto-Turn over the ATC is that, in addition to unlocking/desynchronizing the wheels from each other automatically, it also decouples power to both wheels so that you can make a zero turn radius maneuver (tighter turning than ATC, where the wheel interior to the turn is powered). There is no "power assist" with the Auto-Turn hence there is no ability for the machine to turn itself when encountering obstacles, ruts, etc. 

The internals for these two are completely different. There are fewer complex or moving parts in the Auto Turn. It is also completely sealed with a wet sump case. The feature is more robust than previous systems, including legacy differentials.

Any pull or drag to the right or left is unrelated to this feature. The elements that cause lateral drag/pull precede this system by decades and can be present on any machine to varying degrees. The causes are usually setup or assembly related and need to be corrected to make any machine track straight whether it has an Auto Turn or not. The related information on movingsnow.com has a checklist of items to get pull/drag corrected.


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## docfletcher

Ken, Snowmann, After reading your previous posts I was compelled to start the blower and reassess what is going on. I quickly realized that it is NOT driven under power when turning. So on that, I stand corrected. It only seemed that way because when going downhill and initiating a turn the machine would begin to freewheel downhill. Gravity power. 

Right now this is what I think is happening...
My drive is downhill 100 ft plus. So when going down the weight shifts forward, and when enough resistance is met at skid or corner of bucket the auto turn activates, in that instant there is a brief free roll and the machine tries to pivot on that obstruction. Almost as fast as the machine decouples drive the drive resumes, and when it does you must turn the machine to get back on straight. I could be wrong of course but even if I am it's rather academic as the problem is there for me no matter the cause. I suspect my driveway is culpable because of it's less than great condition. Still I cannot help but wonder how a blower without the auto turn feature would handle the situation. 

I should note that out on the street where the pavement is quite good the machine tracks flawlessly.


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## TheHolyCannoli

docfletcher said:


> ... I could be wrong of course but even if I am it's rather academic as the problem is there for me no matter the cause. I suspect my driveway is culpable because of it's less than great condition. Still I cannot help but wonder how a blower without the auto turn feature would handle the situation.


As someone suggested prior, take a look here and make sure you've checked each item on the list. Another option includes buying the larger ArmorSkids which will help to minimize the effects of having the stock skids dig into the pavement irregularities. If you still can't get the results you're looking for, I'd strongly consider a return for replacement (or refund if you think a traditional drie system would be better). $1500 is a lot of cash to spend on a snowblower that can't be driven in a straight line. 

Not that you should have to resort to this, but, if you're like me, when the machine starts going off-track, you probably try to correct the issue by pushing forward on one of the handles. When my first Platinum 24 was misbehaving, I found it much easier to _*PULL *_the machine back on track.


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## docfletcher

I inquired about the use of the skids you referenced with the dealer who in turn spoke with Areins. Their position is the use of any other skids voids the warranty. I will double check this with the dealer just to be sure he did not misconstrue this. 

The machine tracks hot straight and true on the road. There is no gradual going off course. To me that suggests everything is as it should be with the exception of the scraper blade height. Monday I'll call the dealer and have them pick it up to reassess the adjustments etc. I'll advise the dealer of the link that addresses all the proper adjustments and ask them to go through them. Then we will take it from there. In that manor Ariens and the dealer are driving the problem.


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## markp99

TheHolyCannoli said:


> When my first Platinum 24 was misbehaving, I found it much easier to _*PULL *_the machine back on track.


This is my finding as well. A quick TUG on the "outside" handle seems to help the wayward machine! Much less effort than PUSH/PULL wrestling.

Can't wait for a clear, dry driveway and temps above 10deg to permit me to inspect the setup on the skids and housing alignment. (No garage )


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## Snowmann

docfletcher said:


> I inquired about the use of the skids you referenced with the dealer who in turn spoke with Areins. Their position is the use of any other skids voids the warranty. I will double check this with the dealer just to be sure he did not misconstrue this.
> 
> The machine tracks hot straight and true on the road. There is no gradual going off course. To me that suggests everything is as it should be with the exception of the scraper blade height. Monday I'll call the dealer and have them pick it up to reassess the adjustments etc. I'll advise the dealer of the link that addresses all the proper adjustments and ask them to go through them. Then we will take it from there. In that manor Ariens and the dealer are driving the problem.


 Doc, there are billet UHMW Poly skids available from Ariens that will have the same favorable effect with pavement irregularities. Your dealer should have them in stock.


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## JRHAWK9

ken53 said:


> I haven't used mine at higher speeds yet, Your observations are probably correct.


really..... So far this year I've used 6th gear the majority of the time when blowing. The most snow we've got in one event is only about 6" though. On a new motor I like to keep the load up to increase cylinder pressure in order to help seat the rings. The R&D guy at Briggs I know told me to break it in under higher loads. Same goes for my chainsaws....I've seen first hand what too much idling/babying can do to a brand new chainsaw engine. It's best to create higher cylinder pressure in order to help the break-in procedure.


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## docfletcher

Thank you Snowmann. I certainly appreciate your bringing the poly skids to my attention. Curious the poly skids were not mentioned previously by the dealer or Ariens. Just sayin 
.


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## JRHAWK9

Snowmann said:


> Doc, there are billet UHMW Poly skids available from Ariens that will have the same favorable effect with pavement irregularities. Your dealer should have them in stock.



If you are referring to -THESE-, I don't see how they would be any different than the OEM steel ones in terms of pavement irregularities...??? They have the same footprint and are the same size.


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## TheHolyCannoli

JRHAWK9 said:


> If you are referring to -THESE-, I don't see how they would be any different than the OEM steel ones in terms of pavement irregularities...??? They have the same footprint and are the same size.


Think about friction.....the plastic skids are going to slide more freely across a paved surface. Still, I decided to get the larger skids. I don't see how Ariens could make a legitimate argument that a larger skid would void the warranty if something went wrong with the engine, internals, or anything else not related to the auger housing. I would think the skid would have to have caused the damage/malfunction, much in the same way that mounting a bike rack to a new car doesn't void the warranty.

I guess you could always save the OE skids and make the swap back if you needed warranty work.


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## JRHAWK9

TheHolyCannoli said:


> Think about friction.....the plastic skids are going to slide more freely across a paved surface. Still, I decided to get the larger skids. I don't see how Ariens could make a legitimate argument that a larger skid would void the warranty if something went wrong with the engine, internals, or anything else not related to the auger housing. I would think the skid would have to have caused the damage/malfunction, much in the same way that mounting a bike rack to a new car doesn't void the warranty.
> 
> I guess you could always save the OE skids and make the swap back if you needed warranty work.


I'm pretty sure the coefficient of friction is actually going to be less on concrete/metal combination vs concrete/plastic. Just think of it in terms of wearing....the plastic ones will wear down faster because of the added friction. 

Either way, in regards to the Auto Turn issues, I believe the larger footprint skids would make more a difference than any change in the coefficient of friction from changing skid material.


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## GreatCanadian

If you've read any of my posts on the ATC you will see that I've gone from total frustration to a happy owner. I don't think it's quality control, I think it's terrain. After installing the armorskids from snowblowerskids.com I've totally changed my mind on the ATC. I'm loving it now. If you're aware of the weather we've had on the Avalon Peninsula in Newfoundland this year, then you know I've had plenty of opportunities to use my snowblower. Check our weather at vocm.com


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## docfletcher

I am pleased your happy with the way your machine performs with armorskids. But what about bucket obstructions? How is it the skids help with the bucket? If I were to order skids would I be able to use the existing mounting holes?


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## TheHolyCannoli

JRHAWK9 said:


> ....the plastic ones will wear down faster because of the added friction.


I don't know about that, I'm thinking the reason they wear down quicker because of the hardness/durability of plastic vs metal. Either way, I agree that larger footprint seems to be the deciding factor.


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## JRHAWK9

TheHolyCannoli said:


> I don't know about that, I'm thinking the reason they wear down quicker because of the hardness/durability of plastic vs metal. Either way, I agree that larger footprint seems to be the deciding factor.


yes, agree, although softer = more friction....


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## GreatCanadian

docfletcher said:


> I am pleased your happy with the way your machine performs with armorskids. But what about bucket obstructions? How is it the skids help with the bucket? If I were to order skids would I be able to use the existing mounting holes?


Bucket obstructions are significantly reduced because of the length of the skids. As an example, imagine that one side of your bucket is running into a dip in your driveway. Because of the length of the armorskids, the bucket cannot dip as soon as with shorter skids. Conversely, the bucket also will begin to rise quicker due to the front length of the armour skids. Often the front end of the skid will reach the other side of the dip before the back of the skid reaches the beginning. Then the bucket doesn't dip at all, thus no bucket obstruction. 

What I often believed was the bucket hooking ice last year I now believe was the stock skid not high enough to ride over the obstruction. There is a higher nose on the armor skid. If you are interested in pictures of the stock skid next to the armour skid let me know. I'll post them.

The difference in these and stock is night and day. We are under severe weather here for the past month. We currently are suffering from the aftermath of a blizzard with power outages across our island, and frigid temperatures. There is ice and snow everywhere. Where my blower wore me out last year, the difference this year is incredible.

And yes, you can use the existing mounting holes.

PS. A friend who has a solid axle saw mine in action and purchased the skids just to avoid bucket dig.


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## kellidotca

Here's my initial reaction to auto-turn.. keeping in mind this is my first ever snowblower, so I don't know how to compare it.

I'll prequel this by saying i'm a 5'5" girl who weighs about 115 lbs and has girly, spaghetti arms.. so hauling a 200 lb machine up my backyard slope and around my 6-car driveway was a big deal to me. I've put off this purchase for years unsure I could handle it.. but i did pull the trigger.. and i finally got to use it Saturday.

So.. i watched the Ariens' video and now i lol.. the guy who whips it around with one hand? Really? Yeah, that probably will never happen for me. I live in Northeaster Ontario, i have a gravel driveway and tire tracks are always present.. so no, it wasn't a one hand mambo with the snowblower.

That being said.. I did turn really easily.. but for me, it seemed to work best when i lifted the bucket and turned it.. it wasn't a problem at all to take a tight turn at the end of my driveway and I was REALLY happy with that fact. 

Is that the auto-turn? Are other models that easy?

As far as pulling goes.. it sure does. I'd like to use it a couple more times before i say why that is.. i can't remember if it was tire track related or not, but i remember it being to the right.

The snow here is weird. We have had a lot of it.. and last week we had temps down to -50 with the wind chill so it froze and before that it was 1 degree which was sloppy. When sloppy snow freezes, it doesn't help the base coat, that's for sure.

So.. probably not helpful, but we're getting more snow tonight so I'm hoping to be back out there after work tomorrow to give her another go. =)


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## docfletcher

It is wonderful and actually quite refreshing to read how a gal with spaghetti arms handles the Ariens blower with the auto turn feature. Sounds like you have a lock on how to handle the machine. So which model do you have?
Some folks here have bought Armor skids to replace the factory ones to help tame the pulling. I'm sure others will chime in with really good advice. I'm a fair size guy and while I can make the machine turn with one hand I can assure you it is not fun. When you lift the bucket and turn it's really easier because you don't have the drag of the bucket on the ground. 

I think most of the Ariens models have the auto turn, and one or two have trigger steering. Not entirely sure about which have trigger.


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## kellidotca

I'm in Sudbury, ON.. about 4 hours drive north of Toronto.. according to the weather network, we average about 40 inches per year. 

I have the 28" Deluxe 921030

I'm not a fan of winter, but man I can't wait for it to snow again =)


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## docfletcher

Here in Newtown Connecticut it's about 30" per year. Not much compared to what some folks get. I personally don't care if it ever snows. 

I have no experience on gravel but I'll bet you will get a lot of tips to make a little easier to get the snow off here. Truly there is a wealth of information here.


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## tonysak

So what is the verdict on the Autoturn? Everybody likes it?

Also on the plastic vs metal skid shoes; the plastic is a "self lubricating" type of plastic. Its called Delrin (I have seen a few different names for it), there are different grades. This material is commonly used now in place of metal for what what is traditionally a light weight metal on metal friction part. Most paintball guns now for example, their metal bolts have been replaced with delrin bolts that do not need to be oil. The bolt just wears away vs. a metal bolt would wear into the body of the gun. Ice hockey in the southern states is becoming more popular because instead of ice to skate on, they are using their metal ice skates on large sheets of this material to skate on. I know its not the same but that should give you an idea of how much friction it has. 

I have used the metal and plastic shoes, and the plastic is a dream vs. Metal on asphalt. The plastic shoes glide over everything. Now if there is a divot in your driveway, yes it will sink down and get caught. I wish the armor shoes had a plastic version. The plastic shoes will wear down faster, but its the ease of use is worth it for me. Its also nice not to have rust stains on the garage floor. Some cutting boards are also made from this material too. Hope that helps.


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## JRHAWK9

tonysak said:


> So what is the verdict on the Autoturn? Everybody likes it?
> 
> Also on the plastic vs metal skid shoes; the plastic is a "self lubricating" type of plastic. Its called Delrin (I have seen a few different names for it), there are different grades. This material is commonly used now in place of metal for what what is traditionally a light weight metal on metal friction part. Most paintball guns now for example, their metal bolts have been replaced with delrin bolts that do not need to be oil. The bolt just wears away vs. a metal bolt would wear into the body of the gun. Ice hockey in the southern states is becoming more popular because instead of ice to skate on, they are using their metal ice skates on large sheets of this material to skate on. I know its not the same but that should give you an idea of how much friction it has.
> 
> I have used the metal and plastic shoes, and the plastic is a dream vs. Metal on asphalt. The plastic shoes glide over everything. Now if there is a divot in your driveway, yes it will sink down and get caught. I wish the armor shoes had a plastic version. The plastic shoes will wear down faster, but its the ease of use is worth it for me. Its also nice not to have rust stains on the garage floor. Some cutting boards are also made from this material too. Hope that helps.


There's no way my poly skids, in the condition they are in after just a few uses, will glide with less friction than my steel ones. The bottoms of mine look to have been roughed up by something very course. They have numerous gouges in them and are no longer nice and smooth. I'm guessing they got like this from me having to walk the blower down the street about an 1/8 mile to blow out the neighbors drive. The street is almost always snow/ice covered though as they don't use salt, only sand. I normally always lift up on the bucket when I walk it down there though, but maybe it hit some bare spots. The road is definitely no where near as smooth as our driveways are (which were just paved this summer). The road asphalt has some areas of spalling starting, which, when ran over dry, could definitely leave some marks on the skids.


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## fishrman

*Interesting*

This is a very interesting read for me! I understand pretty much what others are saying regarding the issues they are having with the AutoTurn. I have the new Platinum 24 after running an old Toro for about 30 years. Would I want to go back to my old Toro? NO! Is there a learning curve to using my new Platinum 24? Ya, I think so! I set it up for the 1/8 inch height for the skids but still find it getting caught or seemingly getting caught on uneven sidewalks etc. It then seems like it will jump up or move in such a way as to miss snow that is on the walk or driveway. What I have found that I think helps me the most is applying a little bit of downward pressure on the handle bars that in affect lets the front bucket float more easily over whatever I am blowing. I can see that getting the longer skid shoes may be a benefit and am thinking about getting a pair to try. I wonder if those who are not experiencing any issues have nice and smooth walks and driveways?


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## docfletcher

Terrain has everything to do with it I think. Out on the street where asphalt is in very good condition my pro 28 behaves with impeccable snow thrower manors.

On my driveway however it is quite a different story.


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## Shryp

Looks like Ariens posted a video on their youtube about fixing auto turn pulling.


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## fishrman

Good video and very helpful to me! I will do this when I get my new skids to make sure everything is the way it should be. Not sure how one guy can look at the front of the blower to make sure it is square though while you are picking it up with the handlebars?


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## jth1959

Well I hope I have found the reason for the auto turn wiggle waggle on my Deluxe 28+. I decided to readjust the blower according to the posted video. I went to loosen the top blower housing bolt on the right side as viewed from the drive position and the head and two threads of the bolt popped out with almost zero pressure on the ratchet! The rest of the bolt is in the frame! When looking at the bolt it already has rust on the end of it which says to me it was snapped off during assembly. It has been used three times with the largest depth of snow 8". I will bring the bolt down to my dealer, who assembled the blower, to see what he wants to do about it. Hopefully I won't need to argue that I did not do it.


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## JRHAWK9

jth1959 said:


> Well I hope I have found the reason for the auto turn wiggle waggle on my Deluxe 28+. I decided to readjust the blower according to the posted video. I went to loosen the top blower housing bolt on the right side as viewed from the drive position and the head and two threads of the bolt popped out with almost zero pressure on the ratchet! The rest of the bolt is in the frame! When looking at the bolt it already has rust on the end of it which says to me it was snapped off during assembly. It has been used three times with the largest depth of snow 8". I will bring the bolt down to my dealer, who assembled the blower, to see what he wants to do about it. Hopefully I won't need to argue that I did not do it.


I purchased my Pro 32 still in the crate directly from Ariens. I'm assuming yours was shipped to your dealer the same way mine was shipped it me in the crate. Anyway, the only thing the dealer had to to was basically fold up the handlebars and install the chute. The blower should have came to them with the housing and chassis already bolted together. This means the bolt would have been broke during assembly but while it was still at the factory. Anyway, just thought I'd let you know so you approach your dealer accordingly.


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## jth1959

JRHAWK9 said:


> I purchased my Pro 32 still in the crate directly from Ariens. I'm assuming yours was shipped to your dealer the same way mine was shipped it me in the crate. Anyway, the only thing the dealer had to to was basically fold up the handlebars and install the chute. The blower should have came to them with the housing and chassis already bolted together. This means the bolt would have been broke during assembly but while it was still at the factory. Anyway, just thought I'd let you know so you approach your dealer accordingly.


Thanks that's good to know! I would prefer he take it back give me a new one and deal with Ariens on his own. I would be happy to pay for an upgrade to get the 921036 which has the larger engine.


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## ken53

Blue Hill said:


> Hey Folks,
> I've kind of got my heart set on the new Platinum 24. It looks to have everything I could want in a snowblower and seems pretty much perfect for my needs. Before I actually pull the trigger I'd really like to know your thoughts on the Auto-Turn feature. Removing snow in my yard will involve lots of tight turns, so it seems to me to be the perfect solution, but I've been wondering if it might prove to be a weak spot over the long term.
> Looking forward to your input.
> Regards,
> Larry


I am posting this to the original post, only because I haven't been following this thread to closely. So consider this kind of a general post on the subject of Auto-Turn.

1hr ago the city just scraped up two-three weeks of packed snow but mostly solid ice from the last ice storm, into a nice 18-20 inch EOD bank. I needed to clean the EOD and 30ft of curb for the mail boxes.

I really paid close attention to how Auto-Turn handled this because there was many bare concrete spots for my tires to have good bite. Also there was just as many glare ice spots. 

When both tires where on ice I had very little forward force as I would expect. Any of the many other traction scenarios of good bite on one wheel while ice under the other, and at the same time the front end catching everything uneven in the street and approach, it handle very easy and strait. I needed "very little" correcting. Less correcting then any machine I ever used.

These where tough conditions with layers of ice that where catching my front end. The tires had extremely different surfaces. I truly expected to have regrets of letting my older strait axle machine go. It was fun and enjoyable.

Trust me, I am normally not a very lucky person. For once I must have lucked out. All I can tell you Auto-Turn owners is this. Expect it to work and work well. It should be easier to handle than any machine past or present. If it doesn't, get a new Auto-Turn unit installed until it works very good. Keep in mind that walk behind snow blowers are not very agile by their nature of design. 

I will be definitely crossing my fingers until I get more time on the machine, but if it stays this nice over time, I think Ariens sold me a winner and you too. Don't give up on Auto-Turn, get it working. Welcome to come and try mine.

PS: Little tail wind, and it threw ice the size of hard balls an easy 50ft. Made lots a noise, I better go check my shear pins. 

Ken
30 Platinum with Optional Pro tires.


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## JRHAWK9

ken53 said:


> I am posting this to the original post, only because I haven't been following this thread to closely. So consider this kind of a general post on the subject of Auto-Turn.
> 
> 1hr ago the city just scraped up two-three weeks of packed snow but mostly solid ice from the last ice storm, into a nice 18-20 inch EOD bank. I needed to clean the EOD and 30ft of curb for the mail boxes.
> 
> I really paid close attention to how Auto-Turn handled this because there was many bare concrete spots for my tires to have good bite. Also there was just as many glare ice spots.
> 
> When both tires where on ice I had very little forward force as I would expect. Any of the many other traction scenarios of good bite on one wheel while ice under the other, and at the same time the front end catching everything uneven in the street and approach, it handle very easy and strait. I needed "very little" correcting. Less correcting then any machine I ever used.
> 
> These where tough conditions with layers of ice that where catching my front end. The tires had extremely different surfaces. I truly expected to have regrets of letting my older strait axle machine go. It was fun and enjoyable.
> 
> Trust me, I am normally not a very lucky person. For once I must have lucked out. All I can tell you Auto-Turn owners is this. Expect it to work and work well. It should be easier to handle than any machine past or present. If it doesn't, get a new Auto-Turn unit installed until it works very good. Keep in mind that walk behind snow blowers are not very agile by their nature of design.
> 
> I will be definitely crossing my fingers until I get more time on the machine, but if it stays this nice over time, I think Ariens sold me a winner and you too. Don't give up on Auto-Turn, get it working. Welcome to come and try mine.
> 
> PS: Little tail wind, and it threw ice the size of hard balls an easy 50ft. Made lots a noise, I better go check my shear pins.
> 
> Ken
> 30 Platinum with Optional Pro tires.


Good to hear Ken.

I just picked up my Auto-Turn differential from the dealer at lunch, it finally arrived. I ordered it around Christmas. I plan on swapping my ATC out for the Auto-Turn in the next week or so. I'm more or less just curious of the differences between the two. I don't foresee having any differing surfaces to test it out on though. I may start a new thread showing both differentials side by side and installed.


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## ken53

JRHAWK9 said:


> Good to hear Ken.
> 
> I just picked up my Auto-Turn differential from the dealer at lunch, it finally arrived. I ordered it around Christmas. I plan on swapping my ATC out for the Auto-Turn in the next week or so. I'm more or less just curious of the differences between the two. I don't foresee having any differing surfaces to test it out on though. I may start a new thread showing both differentials side by side and installed.


A comparison would be great.

FWIW... We need to completely forget the car type differentials or it will cloud our thinking. 

When turning, try not to hesitate, so both wheels can stay loose and independent. Both wheels "lock and drive" "immediately" if both wheels stand still, even for a fraction of a second. 

In other words, it is always a strait axle, except when one wheel is forced to go faster then the other, then it immediately cuts power to both wheels. This all happens very fast. 

Its hard to explain but easy to use.  Use it in the slowest gear at first, because it will be easier to feel what is going on down under.

For those that don't want to analyze how it works, just use it, no thinking is necessary. 

I'm sure it has its flaws, but I didn't find them yet 

Ken


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## fishrman

Just got my new ARMOR skids! It is probably a very good thing I did. I just put them on and the right side skid was worn down so far that it was time to turn them over, if I hadn't replaced them. 
Now, I am hoping the housing was not on straight as I sure don't want to see this kind of wear so soon on a brand new Platinum 24. I was shocked to see how badly it was worn and I did set them prior to using. I had not done the blower housing thing though as no one told me about that. 
I would also note that the new ARMOR skids have to be shimmed out about two washers widths because of the design of the auger housing.


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## tonysak

I'd like to hear how the tracked model auto turn is in real life. I had my eye on the hydro pro track 32 but since no dealer had one to try and the curb weight is 400lbs, I went with a honda which has "push really hard for every adjustment" steering. I paid extra for that.


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## JRHAWK9

ken53 said:


> A comparison would be great.
> 
> FWIW... We need to completely forget the car type differentials or it will cloud our thinking.
> 
> When turning, try not to hesitate, so both wheels can stay loose and independent. Both wheels "lock and drive" "immediately" if both wheels stand still, even for a fraction of a second.
> 
> In other words, it is always a strait axle, except when one wheel is forced to go faster then the other, then it immediately cuts power to both wheels. This all happens very fast.
> 
> Its hard to explain but easy to use.  Use it in the slowest gear at first, because it will be easier to feel what is going on down under.
> 
> For those that don't want to analyze how it works, just use it, no thinking is necessary.
> 
> I'm sure it has its flaws, but I didn't find them yet
> 
> Ken


How the Auto-Turn works makes complete sense when you play with the Auto-Turn model they have at the dealership. When I did I immediately thought the same as what you stated:


> When turning, try not to hesitate, so both wheels can stay loose and independent. Both wheels "lock and drive" "immediately" if both wheels stand still, even for a fraction of a second.


I attached some photos I just took of the Auto-Turn I picked up today.


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## Runner50

ken53 said:


> I am posting this to the original post, only because I haven't been following this thread to closely. So consider this kind of a general post on the subject of Auto-Turn.
> 
> 1hr ago the city just scraped up two-three weeks of packed snow but mostly solid ice from the last ice storm, into a nice 18-20 inch EOD bank. I needed to clean the EOD and 30ft of curb for the mail boxes.
> 
> I really paid close attention to how Auto-Turn handled this because there was many bare concrete spots for my tires to have good bite. Also there was just as many glare ice spots.
> 
> When both tires where on ice I had very little forward force as I would expect. Any of the many other traction scenarios of good bite on one wheel while ice under the other, and at the same time the front end catching everything uneven in the street and approach, it handle very easy and strait. I needed "very little" correcting. Less correcting then any machine I ever used.
> 
> These where tough conditions with layers of ice that where catching my front end. The tires had extremely different surfaces. I truly expected to have regrets of letting my older strait axle machine go. It was fun and enjoyable.
> 
> Trust me, I am normally not a very lucky person. For once I must have lucked out. All I can tell you Auto-Turn owners is this. Expect it to work and work well. It should be easier to handle than any machine past or present. If it doesn't, get a new Auto-Turn unit installed until it works very good. Keep in mind that walk behind snow blowers are not very agile by their nature of design.
> 
> I will be definitely crossing my fingers until I get more time on the machine, but if it stays this nice over time, I think Ariens sold me a winner and you too. Don't give up on Auto-Turn, get it working. Welcome to come and try mine.
> 
> PS: Little tail wind, and it threw ice the size of hard balls an easy 50ft. Made lots a noise, I better go check my shear pins.
> 
> Ken
> 30 Platinum with Optional Pro tires.


Great review Ken. I wouldn't hesitate buying a blower with Auto-Turn based on that. In fact, I'd welcome it.


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## ken53

Runner50 said:


> Great review Ken. I wouldn't hesitate buying a blower with Auto-Turn based on that. In fact, I'd welcome it.


 Thanks for the reply.

I really would like to say more about the durability over time, but I just can't give an opinion on that yet. To early to judge durability. 


Ken


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## JRHAWK9

Ken, looks like you'll get another opportunity to try it out tonight. Looks like you'll be getting more than we will be.


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## ken53

JRHAWK9 said:


> Ken, looks like you'll get another opportunity to try it out tonight. Looks like you'll be getting more than we will be.


Yes, you got that right 
They are telling us 9in plus a 60% of 1-2 tonight. Gusts now at 31-32 mph and till midnight. The roads are awful, and the winds are picking up. 

Keeping with the thread subject, its Ariens weather


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## JRHAWK9

man, I only wish we were getting that much. It's pretty pathetic we live in WI and the most snowfall we've had to date in one event is a measily 6". I think last year the most we've received was 9.5". Miss those days of 12"+ storms.


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## LT1Formula350

New to fourm...been following this conversation because I've been having the same issues with my brand new deluxe 28 with autoturn. I don't even feel comfortable going close to my cars because the thing could wander into the door and scratch it if I don't have a firm grip to correct it. It seems like it's a preference thing, some people love it, some hate it. I happen to hate it. Here's my question. It seems like the auto turn mechanism is very easy to remove and replace. Is it possible to replace it with a solid gear that would give you a solid rear axle? Perhaps the part off of say the 921024 that does not have autosteer? Anyone know that part number? Seems like a way to fix it easily for those of us who want an autosteer delete.


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> New to fourm...been following this conversation because I've been having the same issues with my brand new deluxe 28 with autoturn. I don't even feel comfortable going close to my cars because the thing could wander into the door and scratch it if I don't have a firm grip to correct it. It seems like it's a preference thing, some people love it, some hate it. I happen to hate it. Here's my question. It seems like the auto turn mechanism is very easy to remove and replace. Is it possible to replace it with a solid gear that would give you a solid rear axle? Perhaps the part off of say the 921024 that does not have autosteer? Anyone know that part number? Seems like a way to fix it easily for those of us who want an autosteer delete.


I know very little of how install it or remove it. The best I can tell, is the axle is split somehow. You might have an easier time to remove the unit, then disable it by welding it in key places, and installing it back on the axle. This is just a quick guess on my part. I am sure others will chime in with better advice.

My gut feeling is that you might want to give your dealer another chance to correct it, or better yet, replace just the Auto-Turn unit itself. Maybe try an Ariens with a different type of axle.

I hope you can that thing to go strait, the way you would like it to. ):

Ken


----------



## liftoff1967

New to the Forum. I have a 2014 Ariens Deluxe 30. About a month ago I did a You Tube review (first one) on my new machine. Pretty much sums it up.

I did see the update Ariens put out on making sure everything is lined up correctly. I will double check mine when it warms up a little. Being I work for an aluminum sheet fabricator, I use a 6" x 28" strip of .063 thick aluminum and set my scraper bar to that. The 1/8" they use in the video leaves a lot to still clean up. More on that in my video.

Link is:


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## JRHAWK9

LT1Formula350 said:


> New to fourm...been following this conversation because I've been having the same issues with my brand new deluxe 28 with autoturn. I don't even feel comfortable going close to my cars because the thing could wander into the door and scratch it if I don't have a firm grip to correct it. It seems like it's a preference thing, some people love it, some hate it. I happen to hate it. Here's my question. It seems like the auto turn mechanism is very easy to remove and replace. Is it possible to replace it with a solid gear that would give you a solid rear axle? Perhaps the part off of say the 921024 that does not have autosteer? Anyone know that part number? Seems like a way to fix it easily for those of us who want an autosteer delete.


I'll know more when I remove my ATC and install the Auto-Turn. The little bit I looked at it, you would need to find a solid axle as well as a gear the same size/pitch as the Auto-Turn to ride on that axle. Currently you have two separate axles, one for each side. They meet at the differential as both axles slide halfway in. It looks to be a piece of cake to remove the differential though. Unless I'm not seeing things correctly or I end up losing a part I don't see how it will even take 15 minutes to swap differentials. I already accidentally pulled out one axle when I took the wheel off the axle in order to grease it. 

As far as part numbers, you can go right to Ariens site and look up any part number off of any model. Go -HERE-


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## mswlogo

ken53 said:


> I know very little of how install it or remove it. The best I can tell, is the axle is split somehow. You might have an easier time to remove the unit, then disable it by welding it in key places, and installing it back on the axle. This is just a quick guess on my part. I am sure others will chime in with better advice.
> 
> My gut feeling is that you might want to give your dealer another chance to correct it, or better yet, replace just the Auto-Turn unit itself. Maybe try an Ariens with a different type of axle.
> 
> I hope you can that thing to go strait, the way you would like it to. ):
> 
> Ken


 If I were to lock it up. I'd drill a hole through and put in a shearing bolt.

Depending where you drill it might even be reversible.

I'm waiting for snow now (currently raining west of Boston) to try out the new Skids. I have ATC though not Auto Turn and didn't find it all that bad.

I'm waiting impatiently for JRHAWK to see what he says when he switches from ATC to Auto Turn.


----------



## LT1Formula350

The more I think about it I don't want to mess with it just yet because of the warranty. I ordered the armor skids that some other guys said had fixed the problem for them. I also went through the whole realignment process that Ariens recommends. Hopefully that helps, no snow right now to test. Anyone live in MASS and have a late model solid axle model they want to trade for a brand new 921030...???


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## tonysak

LT1Formula350 said:


> The more I think about it I don't want to mess with it just yet because of the warranty. I ordered the armor skids that some other guys said had fixed the problem for them. I also went through the whole realignment process that Ariens recommends. Hopefully that helps, no snow right now to test. Anyone live in MASS and have a late model solid axle model they want to trade for a brand new 921030...???


Would love too, I don't think it will fit in my snow blower though. Do you have a track version?


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## LT1Formula350

tonysak said:


> Would love too, I don't think it will fit in my snow blower though. Do you have a track version?



no, I have the 921030. Wheeled 2014 deluxe 28. I meant trading the whole machine, not the axle. I was half kidding, but if someone has a 2012 or newer deluxe with a solid axle that actually did want to trade with me I'd definitely consider it.


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## Ariens Company

LT1Formula350 said:


> New to fourm...been following this conversation because I've been having the same issues with my brand new deluxe 28 with autoturn. I don't even feel comfortable going close to my cars because the thing could wander into the door and scratch it if I don't have a firm grip to correct it. It seems like it's a preference thing, some people love it, some hate it. I happen to hate it. Here's my question. It seems like the auto turn mechanism is very easy to remove and replace. Is it possible to replace it with a solid gear that would give you a solid rear axle? Perhaps the part off of say the 921024 that does not have autosteer? Anyone know that part number? Seems like a way to fix it easily for those of us who want an autosteer delete.


LT1Formula350 - Sorry to hear that you are having trouble with your Auto-Turn feature. Have you followed the eight steps and watched our video to make sure your unit is adjusted correctly? We have had some units pull to the side, like you mentioned, that needed this adjustment to correct the issue. No additional parts are needed to check this out. 

Here is a link to our customer service portal for the auto-turn adjustment information.

Hopefully this will help.


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## LT1Formula350

Hi, 
Thanks for the response. Yes, did all the adjustments as instructed in the video. I'm not the only one with this opinion, seems like quite a few people on this thread feel the same way and are having the same issue. If you're really from the company I encourage you to read the whole thread.


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## LT1Formula350

ken53 said:


> I have to question the validity of the Auto-Turn complaints.
> 
> Auto-Turn can not push off, or drive ahead with just one wheel under power. It is mechanically *impossible* for Auto-Turn to unwillingly steer a machine.
> 
> "Auto-Turn" drives two wheels at equal speeds or no wheels drive at all.
> 
> When the operator try's to turn it immediately kicks out "both" wheels. As soon as "both" wheels ether stand still, or "both" wheels are rotating at the same speed, "then, and only then", both wheels receive equal force.
> 
> My father owned a couple of apartments. I have been using various blowers since I was 14 years old, and I am now 60. My new Auto-Turn machine handles like any straight axle machine except it is easier to turn.* Its that simple.
> *
> I think this subject of how Auto-Turn works might warrant it's own thread. When I get more time I might work up a post.
> 
> Everyone have a nice New Year.
> 
> Ken


I saw this a few days ago and didn't want to respond until I tested it out. Put your blower in 6th gear and try to initate a slow zero g turn. It absolutely does not simply unlock the axle and allow both wheels to move freely. You can feel one wheel does pull you ahead. I also just held on slightly with one hand and let the blower go straight. At every little dip it will change directions left or right where my old solid axle unit wouldn't. Why would this many people post about a phantom problem?

Thanks for the advice of bringing it back, but I'm not completely convinced there's necessarily something wrong with it and I'm not ready to exchange quite yet. I can make it go straight, but the point is shouldn't it do that on it's own? Maybe I just need to get used to it. I'm going to give it another storm before I go that route.


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## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> I saw this a few days ago and didn't want to respond until I tested it out. Put your blower in 6th gear and try to initate a slow zero g turn. It absolutely does not simply unlock the axle and allow both wheels to move freely. You can feel one wheel does pull you ahead. I also just held on slightly with one hand and let the blower go straight. At every little dip it will change directions left or right where my old solid axle unit wouldn't. Why would this many people post about a phantom problem?
> 
> Thanks for the advice of bringing it back, but I'm not completely convinced there's necessarily something wrong with it and I'm not ready to exchange quite yet. I can make it go straight, but the point is shouldn't it do that on it's own? Maybe I just need to get used to it. I'm going to give it another storm before I go that route.


I a little confused on which axle you have. Do you have an Auto-Turn, or an Auto-Traction-Control (ATC) axle?

Ken


----------



## LT1Formula350

2014 deluxe 28 with auto turn.


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> 2014 deluxe 28 with auto turn.


The auto turn unit can not drive just one wheel as long as it is working properly. I can't see or try your machine, but just from the symptoms you describe, it sure does sound like you have a defective unit. 

If you bought it from a dealer, maybe let someone at the dealer try it, just to see what their symptoms would be.

Ken


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> I saw this a few days ago and didn't want to respond until I tested it out. Put your blower in 6th gear and try to initate a slow zero g turn. It absolutely does not simply unlock the axle and allow both wheels to move freely. You can feel one wheel does pull you ahead. I also just held on slightly with one hand and let the blower go straight. At every little dip it will change directions left or right where my old solid axle unit wouldn't. Why would this many people post about a phantom problem?
> 
> Thanks for the advice of bringing it back, but I'm not completely convinced there's necessarily something wrong with it and I'm not ready to exchange quite yet. I can make it go straight, but the point is shouldn't it do that on it's own? Maybe I just need to get used to it. I'm going to give it another storm before I go that route.


My apologies if you already saw this video, It does mimic how mine works. Actually it is quite impressive considering it is catching on the grass.

New Ariens Deluxe 28 Snow Blower With Auto Turn Review Model 921030 - YouTube

Ken


----------



## fishrman

*skids*

I wanted to put up a pic. of my right OEM skid after only about 3 hours of using my new Platinum 24! When I adjusted the skids originally, I didn't adjust the housing as I had no idea about it having to be adjusted. I have now put on the new larger skids and hope that solves the problem since I have now loosed the 4 bolts on the housing and hopefully it is all now lined up correctly. A guy shouldn't have to mess with the housing from the factory!!








-----------------------------------------
Here is a pic of my new machine with the new skids. Now, we need some snow to test it out.


----------



## celltech

I also don't like how the unit works on my driveway. On the road where it's flat and straight it works great. However my driveway curves, has an incline and also cracks. It is a beast trying to control it and I'm no small guy.


----------



## ken53

fishrman said:


> I wanted to put up a pic. of my right OEM skid after only about 3 hours of using my new Platinum 24! When I adjusted the skids originally, I didn't adjust the housing as I had no idea about it having to be adjusted. I have now put on the new larger skids and hope that solves the problem since I have now loosed the 4 bolts on the housing and hopefully it is all now lined up correctly. A guy shouldn't have to mess with the housing from the factory!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> Here is a pic of my new machine with the new skids. Now, we need some snow to test it out.


That's really worn for just 3 hrs. It must have been quite twisted or adjusted really poorly. I thought that I had a poor setup from my dealer. I am sure Ariens would like to know about any dealer doing such sloppy work like that. Try giving them a call.

Ken


----------



## fishrman

Thanks Ken! I am the one that adjusted the skids to start with so only have me to blame, I guess!


----------



## jth1959

I was placing my 2014 deluxe 28+ out this morning for my dealer to pick up to address the broken blower/frame bolt. I had adjusted the blower according to the video and everything is aligned. I noticed when I rolled it out on the dry driveway pavement in certain areas of my driveway the blower would rest on one skid and the scrapper with the other skid completely off the pavement. My driveway isn't perfectly flat but it isn't that bad either. I'm not sure I could get 150' of driveway flat enough to have equal pressure on both skids. The dealer is going to talk to Ariens about the defective bolt and checkout the auto-turn.....we'll see what happens.


----------



## ken53

fishrman said:


> Thanks Ken! I am the one that adjusted the skids to start with so only have me to blame, I guess!


 I was just wondering..., could that skid have missed out on the hardening process at the factory. I am assuming they do harden them.

Ken


----------



## docfletcher

Ariens wants my dealer to put poly skids on mine in an effort to get auto turn operation better. I'm not sure if it will resolve anything, but we will see. Not sure what will happen if they don't help.


----------



## mkd

jth! found out the same thing about my driveway! lots of up and downs you don't see till you put a straight edge on it. thought about using a 6' level to adjust the skids on?


----------



## fishrman

ken53 said:


> I was just wondering..., could that skid have missed out on the hardening process at the factory. I am assuming they do harden them.
> 
> Ken


 I suppose that could be a possibility. I just can't believe how fast it wore down. I have asked the company about it and await their reply.


----------



## fishrman

jth1959 said:


> I was placing my 2014 deluxe 28+ out this morning for my dealer to pick up to address the broken blower/frame bolt. I had adjusted the blower according to the video and everything is aligned. I noticed when I rolled it out on the dry driveway pavement in certain areas of my driveway the blower would rest on one skid and the scrapper with the other skid completely off the pavement. My driveway isn't perfectly flat but it isn't that bad either. I'm not sure I could get 150' of driveway flat enough to have equal pressure on both skids. The dealer is going to talk to Ariens about the defective bolt and checkout the auto-turn.....we'll see what happens.


Be anxious to hear about the results.


----------



## jth1959

mkd said:


> jth! found out the same thing about my driveway! lots of up and downs you don't see till you put a straight edge on it. thought about using a 6' level to adjust the skids on?


I did all my aligning in my garage which has a perfectly flat concrete floor. I even checked it in several places around the garage and my skids hit the floor at the same time in each place. The problem is my driveway isn't as perfectly flat as my garage and other than repaving 150' of driveway to the same specifications as an airport runway it never will be. I'm beginning to think the only way to make this thing work is to increase the gap under the scraper blade so that the skids hit before the scraper the majority of the time which, unfortunately, will make for an icy driveway.

I also just heard from my dealer regarding the broken blower to frame bolt which I discovered when going through the steps to aligned this thing. First they told the dealer there are no issues with auto-turn and they will not cover the bolt because I broke it. If placing a ratchet on the bolt head and having it fall to the ground without applying any torque is breaking it then I guess I'm guilty. The dealer suggested I use it with one less bolt until I change the belts and they will replace it then to save me money. So my conclusion is Ariens customer service is a joke and if anyone would like to purchase a 2014 Deluxe 28+ I will make you a great deal.....I'm moving on.


----------



## ken53

jth1959 said:


> I did all my aligning in my garage which has a perfectly flat concrete floor. I even checked it in several places around the garage and my skids hit the floor at the same time in each place. The problem is my driveway isn't as perfectly flat as my garage and other than repaving 150' of driveway to the same specifications as an airport runway it never will be. I'm beginning to think the only way to make this thing work is to increase the gap under the scraper blade so that the skids hit before the scraper the majority of the time which, unfortunately, will make for an icy driveway.
> 
> I also just heard from my dealer regarding the broken blower to frame bolt which I discovered when going through the steps to aligned this thing. First they told the dealer there are no issues with auto-turn and they will not cover the bolt because I broke it. If placing a ratchet on the bolt head and having it fall to the ground without applying any torque is breaking it then I guess I'm guilty. The dealer suggested I use it with one less bolt until I change the belts and they will replace it then to save me money. So my conclusion is Ariens customer service is a joke and if anyone would like to purchase a 2014 Deluxe 28+ I will make you a great deal.....I'm moving on.


Here is the link to the "For Sale" forum. You should have many inquirers.

Snowblowers For Sale - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums

Ken


----------



## jth1959

ken53 said:


> Here is the link to the "For Sale" forum. You should have many inquirers.
> 
> Snowblowers For Sale - Snowblower Forum : Snow Blower Forums
> 
> Ken


Thanks for the link but I will sell it locally. My dealer has been as helpful as they can be. They said if I would like to sell it they would help as they get people in looking for a deal. My dealer said they would give Ariens another call to explain how the bolt broke and offer to send them the bolt head which they will see has an odd grainy texture and corrosion. Just frustrating.

Look the auto-turn is what it is but I think Ariens should step up on the bolt issue.


----------



## fishrman

jth1959 said:


> Thanks for the link but I will sell it locally. My dealer has been as helpful as they can be. They said if I would like to sell it they would help as they get people in looking for a deal. My dealer said they would give Ariens another call to explain how the bolt broke and offer to send them the bolt head which they will see has an odd grainy texture and corrosion. Just frustrating.
> 
> Look the auto-turn is what it is but I think Ariens should step up on the bolt issue.


Sure sorry to hear about the bad experience you are having. I will be very curious to find out if my new bigger skids will help out on the problem or not. Seems to me, if the bigger skids help then that should be a change that Ariens should consider making.


----------



## jth1959

fishrman said:


> Sure sorry to hear about the bad experience you are having. I will be very curious to find out if my new bigger skids will help out on the problem or not. Seems to me, if the bigger skids help then that should be a change that Ariens should consider making.


Like I said I think the auto-turn is what it is. The broken bolt is becoming the bigger issue to me and I think my dealer has failed customer service 101. The proper way to handle it would have been to say Ariens won't honor it as a warranty issue but we will take care of it. I'm still waiting for a call back on what they plan to do. If i broke the bolt I would have told them I broke the bolt. I think I'll order the larger skids and get through the season, hopefully they make the difference and I will decide to keep the machine.


----------



## tonysak

jth1959 said:


> Like I said I think the auto-turn is what it is. The broken bolt is becoming the bigger issue to me and I think my dealer has failed customer service 101. The proper way to handle it would have been to say Ariens won't honor it as a warranty issue but we will take care of it. I'm still waiting for a call back on what they plan to do. If i broke the bolt I would have told them I broke the bolt. I think I'll order the larger skids and get through the season, hopefully they make the difference and I will decide to keep the machine.


I bet your dealer broke the bolt...


----------



## jth1959

tonysak said:


> I bet your dealer broke the bolt...


....could be but the dealer has come to his senses and is removing the bolt, he said Ariens gave him the Ok, I don't care either way. I could have removed it myself with little effort but it was the principle of the thing and since he was going to check the auto-turn he might as well do it. I took a look at the other bolts and to be honest they look like cheap Chinese crap.


----------



## Blue Hill

Ariens Company said:


> LT1Formula350 - Sorry to hear that you are having trouble with your Auto-Turn feature. Have you followed the eight steps and watched our video to make sure your unit is adjusted correctly? We have had some units pull to the side, like you mentioned, that needed this adjustment to correct the issue. No additional parts are needed to check this out.
> 
> Here is a link to our customer service portal for the auto-turn adjustment information.
> 
> Hopefully this will help.


Thanks for chiming in Ariens. It's nice to know that you are keeping an eye on this sometimes confusing and for some of us, frustrating issue. You have a lot of friends here.


----------



## LT1Formula350

ken53 said:


> The auto turn unit can not drive just one wheel as long as it is working properly. I can't see or try your machine, but just from the symptoms you describe, it sure does sound like you have a defective unit.
> 
> If you bought it from a dealer, maybe let someone at the dealer try it, just to see what their symptoms would be.
> 
> Ken



Ken, so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. From what you say, BOTH wheels will COMPLETELY disengage from the axle. So try this, put it in a forward gear, hold down the drive lever, and initate a turn. Then start trying to pull the blower BACKWARDS while turning. My blower won't let you do that, will yours? There's definitely something pulling forward even when the autoturn is activated. If they were completely disengaged like you say you should be able to pull it around a turn backwards even while under power in a forward gear so long as you keep the wheels moving at different rates. 

Also if you watch the youtube video that's been floating around that shows the internal workings of this thing from Ariens, it looks like the right axle stays engaged and the left one disengages in the video.


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> Ken, so I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. From what you say, BOTH wheels will COMPLETELY disengage from the axle. So try this, put it in a forward gear, hold down the drive lever, and initate a turn. Then start trying to pull the blower BACKWARDS while turning. My blower won't let you do that, will yours? There's definitely something pulling forward even when the autoturn is activated. If they were completely disengaged like you say you should be able to pull it around a turn backwards even while under power in a forward gear so long as you keep the wheels moving at different rates.
> 
> Also if you watch the youtube video that's been floating around that shows the internal workings of this thing from Ariens, it looks like the right axle stays engaged and the left one disengages in the video.


I have tried that already. When you try to pull backwards in a turn, at a split second in time both wheels will be at the same rpm. This is when it instantly locks. To prove this, "under power", turn/rotate your machine on an imaginary axis dead center. Each wheel will rotate opposite of each other.

The best advice to anyone truly interested in understanding Auto-Turn, is to watch that video, "but" only the short segment where it shows the internal workings in action, over and over and over. It will hit you like a brick wall. You will say to yourself "was that ever simple, now it makes sense." Keep in mind most dealers don't even understand how it works.

But I have to stand by my opinion that that Auto-Turn does not drive just one wheel, ever. (It may for like 1/100 of a second when its transitioning between locked and unlocked.

I have no affiliation with Ariens. I am just a big fan of the way they do business. I only live 35 miles from their factory. I have heard so many positive things about the way they treat their employees and many stories of how they stood behind products from less then honest customers. Also I'm old enough to remember when most snow blowers where junk. Ariens and Simplicity where the only blowers a person could depend on back in that time period.

So is Auto-Turn perfect? Nope, I would say not. But my opinion is.. that it comes closer then anything else so far at "any price". 

Here is one thought that might explain some of the problems we are seeing. Many of the new Ariens have a "majorly" different weight distribution then the machines of last year and before. The bucket carries "much" more of the total weight now. This extra weight on the bucket is really a good thing in my opinion. But at first, it is really making the machine feel "very" clumsy and hard to steer. Once one gets use to the heavy front end its better because it resists climbing.

Sorry if I didn't' help much. I kind of got side tracked a little.

Ken


----------



## docfletcher

The heavy bucket is exactly the reason I choose the Ariens over the the Toro. As heavy as it is though I will still most likely add a little weight to it to keep it from riding up when going uphill. I'm not sure what if any effect it will have on auto turn... Have to wait & see.


----------



## Blue Hill

Some extra weight shouldn't hurt it Doc. Myself, as well as others have put weight on the front will no negative affects to the AT.


----------



## ken53

docfletcher said:


> The heavy bucket is exactly the reason I choose the Ariens over the the Toro. As heavy as it is though I will still most likely add a little weight to it to keep it from riding up when going uphill. I'm not sure what if any effect it will have on auto turn... Have to wait & see.


Hi Doc

I have been racking my brain trying to understand these symptoms that I am hearing. 

Let me throw this idea in your direction.

Many of us come from straight locked axle machines. These machines wanted to drive straight and would strongly resisted anything but straight. The slippery surface is the only reason they where somewhat controllable. Moving the handle bars left or right needed to over come the strong force of the straight axle. The straight axle kept the operator in line so to speak.

Now with Auto-Turn the axle is locked also, "but" only locked in "ONE" direction, this directional force is driving forward. The operator can freely move the handle bars left and right with virtually no resistance what so ever. This little unnoticeable movement in the handle bars can go unnoticed except for that the machine takes off and deviates from a straight line. 

Now we have the bucket dragging and scraping. Imagine this bucket being another pair of "handle bars" and the driveway is a "operator" steering the machine uncontrollably from the opposite end of the machine..

All this was happening with our old straight axle machines. The difference is that the straight axle kept it in check so to speak. 

With Auto-Turn we have this new found "freedom to turn" at will and very easily and quickly I might add, "BUT" this virtual operator with his virtual handle bars on the "opposite end" of the machine also has this new found freedom to turn the machine also.

I know it sounds corny. I'm not a writer, and don't claim to explain things very well. Think about this a little, if it makes any sense, let me know. 

Ken


----------



## Brucebotti

Blue Hill said:


> Some extra weight shouldn't hurt it Doc. Myself, as well as others have put weight on the front will no negative affects to the AT.


I think I'll have to add some weight to my Deluxe 28. I find that pressing down on the drive and auger controls tends to lift the bucket up slightly. 
Bruce


----------



## docfletcher

Yes it does make sense. Think of your virtual handlebars as the skids. Imagine one skid getting caught up on on an obstacle and whoops, auto turn is engaged. If you happen to be going downhill the problem is exacerbated due to the forward freewheeling momentum and the weight of the machine. 

Since there is weight transfer to the front of the machine going downhill it makes the skid more susceptible to interference problems.


----------



## Blue Hill

Brucebotti said:


> I think I'll have to add some weight to my Deluxe 28. I find that pressing down on the drive and auger controls tends to lift the bucket up slightly.
> Bruce


My light front end was exaggerated by the cab hanging off the back end. I hung a piece of used grader blade under the upper front housing and it helped. I just finished adding a second piece just to see what it would do. No snow to try it now though.


----------



## ken53

docfletcher said:


> Yes it does make sense. Think of your virtual handlebars as the skids. Imagine one skid getting caught up on on an obstacle and whoops, auto turn is engaged. If you happen to be going downhill the problem is exacerbated due to the forward freewheeling momentum and the weight of the machine.
> 
> Since there is weight transfer to the front of the machine going downhill it makes the skid more susceptible to interference problems.


Your getting close.

If the skid or scraper grabs something that can be moved, at that instant the two drive wheels should still be locked and driving straight with equal force. This should over come the grabbing obstacle and everything is still fine.

But... 

If the obstacle is more stubborn, all will be the same as above, but the machine will veer of course just like a old straight axle machine. If this veering is severe enough the Auto-Turn could possibly kick out both wheels for fraction of a second, and kick both wheels back in. This happens so fast it is not noticeable. But in the mean time the machine did veer of course similar to a strait axle machine.

Where the problem seems to be occurring is the operator might be over steering because you feel all this front end movement in the handle bars where as a strait axle machines would dampen this input from the front end. Our instincts from the past are to have major reactions where now we have to tone them down and let the machine drive its line and correct when it hits something real stubborn.

Going down hill is just the opposite. When the engine is "substantially" holding the machine back like "brakes" being applied, things should work the same, as far as the axle being locked.

Where you might have take responsibility and think on your feet a little is when your truly coasting. That is the engine clearly "not" driving forcibly or the engine is "not" braking forcibly. This should only be a second or two. But the transition could be happen over and over if you allow it to be.

I'm not an engineer and even if I was, I didn't design Auto-Steer  so it is real hard to put into words, what I understand is going on.

You seem to be one of the more curious, that likes to know what's going on. I am this way too. I believe we should be this way  

Auto-steer is so cool when it finally clicks in a persons head. It really pays to try to understand how it works.

Watch the video just where it shows the inner workings. Start at 1min 10 sec.

Watch for:
1 The two outside rings drive the wheels. (Wheel Gears)
2 The big center gear is powered buy the motor. (Power Gear)
3 The two (Floating Gears) need to be pushed outward to drive the (Wheel Gears). These are also driven from the inside of the (Power Gear).
4 The (Floating Gears) only push out under power or engine braking.
5 The (Floating Gears) Can not push out and drive one at a time, they have to work as a pair because they push off of each other.

Give that a look. Once it hits you, you will be glad you figured it out.

Ken


----------



## ken53

Blue Hill said:


> My light front end was exaggerated by the cab hanging off the back end. I hung a piece of used grader blade under the upper front housing and it helped. I just finished adding a second piece just to see what it would do. No snow to try it now though.


Hi Larry
You should have the heavy front end. Check out last years model. Check out the axle location. If I see your machine correctly, your axle is moved back to fit on the bigger wheels, compared to last years model. I am guessing you front end feels pretty light because of the cab. 

Just thinking out loud. 

I sent in an order to the Canadian government for some snow storms. They said no problem, the US imports anything. 

Ken


----------



## Blue Hill

ken53 said:


> Hi Larry
> You should have the heavy front end. Check out last years model. Check out the axle location. If I see your machine correctly, your axle is moved back to fit on the bigger wheels, compared to last years model. I am guessing you front end feels pretty light because of the cab.
> 
> Just thinking out loud.
> 
> I sent in an order to the Canadian government for some snow storms. They said no problem, the US imports anything.
> 
> Ken


Not comparing mine to other years Ken. Just that with the cab, the front end is light to the point that the front will jump up, especially in the higher gears, when I engage the drive.
I'd like it if she would keep her nose down when going over packed wheel tracks too, instead of riding up over them. 
Just tinkering.


----------



## docfletcher

Out on the street there is no issue. no subtle movements are felt or observed. One handed operation and tracking or unwanted turn issues.
If my drive were as nice a surface as the street we would not be having this conversation. 

My perception is when going downhill, an immovable obstacle causes auto turn to kick in, thus allowing the pivoting and freewheeling of the machine. there is no engine braking as long as the machine is actively in the turn. In my particular case on certain sections of the driveway, obstructions of one sort or another cause a left or right turn depending on which skid is getting hung up. I'm talking about 15 degree turn which I must correct, and then one, two, or three feet later have the same thing happen again either in the same direction or opposite. I don't feel any movement in the handle bars. When she turns she does abruptly and without warning.

Just to drive a point home... I am saying then when auto turn kicks in because a skid is hung up there is no engine braking until the auto turn locks the axle up again. 

There is no learning curve here, no operator error, and no over correcting. 
It is simply a matter of a the skid getting hung up. My driveway sucks  

I only had one other two stage, the Toro 626. I stopped using it about 8 
years ago, but I don't recall it having directional problems. 

Your points are all very well taken, and well said I might add. Just so you know I resolved my auto turn misconceptions a while back thanks to you and few others here. 

The dealer and I will be changing the scraper adjustment and skids so we will see if that helps, if not I can try the super skids talked about here on the forum.


----------



## ken53

Blue Hill said:


> Not comparing mine to other years Ken. Just that with the cab, the front end is light to the point that the front will jump up, especially in the higher gears, when I engage the drive.
> I'd like it if she would keep her nose down when going over packed wheel tracks too, instead of riding up over them.
> Just tinkering.


I'm sorry if I insinuated that you shouldn't be adding weight. I didn't mean it that way. Heck, 30-40 pounds might be just right for yours. I don't have the cab and I could use more weight. The front end jumping when starting is annoying to me. I have no doubt that you will get it just right.

Ken


----------



## LT1Formula350

ken53 said:


> I have tried that already. When you try to pull backwards in a turn, at a split second in time both wheels will be at the same rpm. This is when it instantly locks. To prove this, "under power", turn/rotate your machine on an imaginary axis dead center. Each wheel will rotate opposite of each other.
> 
> The best advice to anyone truly interested in understanding Auto-Turn, is to watch that video, "but" only the short segment where it shows the internal workings in action, over and over and over. It will hit you like a brick wall. You will say to yourself "was that ever simple, now it makes sense." Keep in mind most dealers don't even understand how it works.
> 
> But I have to stand by my opinion that that Auto-Turn does not drive just one wheel, ever. (It may for like 1/100 of a second when its transitioning between locked and unlocked.
> 
> I have no affiliation with Ariens. I am just a big fan of the way they do business. I only live 35 miles from their factory. I have heard so many positive things about the way they treat their employees and many stories of how they stood behind products from less then honest customers. Also I'm old enough to remember when most snow blowers where junk. Ariens and Simplicity where the only blowers a person could depend on back in that time period.
> 
> So is Auto-Turn perfect? Nope, I would say not. But my opinion is.. that it comes closer then anything else so far at "any price".
> 
> Here is one thought that might explain some of the problems we are seeing. Many of the new Ariens have a "majorly" different weight distribution then the machines of last year and before. The bucket carries "much" more of the total weight now. This extra weight on the bucket is really a good thing in my opinion. But at first, it is really making the machine feel "very" clumsy and hard to steer. Once one gets use to the heavy front end its better because it resists climbing.
> 
> Sorry if I didn't' help much. I kind of got side tracked a little.
> 
> Ken




I'm not buying it. I can pivot my machine in a perfect circle zero g turn, both wheels moving the same speed in oposite directions. Engage the drive in forward gear. According to what you're saying I should feel nothing at all since both wheels should be completely disengaged. You should even be able to transition out of a zero G into a slight backwards turn with the forward drive engaged. That's not the case, I definitely feel the machine pull forward. If you're telling me you've actually tried this exact maneuver and you feel no effect when you pull the drive lever in 6th gear forward, maybe I believe you I have a defective unit. I'd be curious to hear some other guys try this and their results.


----------



## Blue Hill

No worries buddy.


----------



## ken53

docfletcher said:


> Out on the street there is no issue. no subtle movements are felt or observed. One handed operation and tracking or unwanted turn issues.
> If my drive were as nice a surface as the street we would not be having this conversation.
> 
> My perception is when going downhill, an immovable obstacle causes auto turn to kick in, thus allowing the pivoting and freewheeling of the machine. there is no engine braking as long as the machine is actively in the turn. In my particular case on certain sections of the driveway, obstructions of one sort or another cause a left or right turn depending on which skid is getting hung up. I'm talking about 15 degree turn which I must correct, and then one, two, or three feet later have the same thing happen again either in the same direction or opposite. I don't feel any movement in the handle bars. When she turns she does abruptly and without warning.
> 
> Just to drive a point home... I am saying then when auto turn kicks in because a skid is hung up there is no engine braking until the auto turn locks the axle up again.
> 
> There is no learning curve here, no operator error, and no over correcting.
> It is simply a matter of a the skid getting hung up. My driveway sucks
> 
> I only had one other two stage, the Toro 626. I stopped using it about 8
> years ago, but I don't recall it having directional problems.
> 
> Your points are all very well taken, and well said I might add. Just so you know I resolved my auto turn misconceptions a while back thanks to you and few others here.
> 
> The dealer and I will be changing the scraper adjustment and skids so we will see if that helps, if not I can try the super skids talked about here on the forum.


I'm on your side. Your machine should be fun to use.

Someone today said he had better handling by just pulling back a little. I could see by making the machine pull harder, the Auto-Turn should stay locked in more. In theory if the machine's wheels pull really hard, Auto-Turn can't kick out at all.

Another thought, is Auto-Turn has springs to pop the locking rings in or out. (can't remember which). I wonder if these could be to strong or weak. I really don't know how a dealer could test these. The real problem would be these springs would not be a black and white issue. It would be hard for the consumer to prove weak springs. The video shows where these are.

Ken


----------



## docfletcher

Ha Ha, Dial a setting, click click click, ahh just right


----------



## tonysak

ken53 said:


> I'm on your side. Your machine should be fun to use.
> 
> Someone today said he had better handling by just pulling back a little. I could see by making the machine pull harder, the Auto-Turn should stay locked in more. In theory if the machine's wheels pull really hard, Auto-Turn can't kick out at all.
> 
> Another thought, is Auto-Turn has springs to pop the locking rings in or out. (can't remember which). I wonder if these could be to strong or weak. I really don't know how a dealer could test these. The real problem would be these springs would not be a black and white issue. It would be hard for the consumer to prove weak springs. The video shows where these are.
> 
> Ken


I thought the same thing on the springs in the auto turn


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> I'm not buying it. I can pivot my machine in a perfect circle zero g turn, both wheels moving the same speed in oposite directions. Engage the drive in forward gear. According to what you're saying I should feel nothing at all since both wheels should be completely disengaged. You should even be able to transition out of a zero G into a slight backwards turn with the forward drive engaged. That's not the case, I definitely feel the machine pull forward. If you're telling me you've actually tried this exact maneuver and you feel no effect when you pull the drive lever in 6th gear forward, maybe I believe you I have a defective unit. I'd be curious to hear some other guys try this and their results.


I don't really understand what your explaining here. Sorry. 

What I said I tried is this. When in a turn and both wheels freed up, then pulling backwards will lock it up just for bit, assuming you continue the turn. If you continue to pull backwards the tighter it try's to stay locked. Auto-Turn is a one way lockup but only to a point. 

We didn't even get into the springs that play a role when you start splitting hairs.

You really need to understand how it works, other wise we will get caught talking in circles. If I was an English major or an engineer I might be able to explain it better. I'm just sorry about that. 

I went through the time and effort to learn the system. I understand it, and am impressed by it. I know Hawk studied it, and now understands it also, maybe he can chime in. You really need to learn it. If you do, you won't have a single question, and you won't have to tell anyone "you don't buy it". 
Best of all, if you learn how it works then you can help others. 

Its all in the video. 

Ken


----------



## kellidotca

ken53 said:


> Someone today said he had better handling by just pulling back


She


----------



## ken53

kellidotca said:


> She


OOPs

I am really sorry about that. I never pay attention to these names that well. I didn't even remember which post it was from at that moment much less the name. 

It won't happen again. 

PS: You realize, that you might be just remembered by the person that shredded the news paper.   

Ken


----------



## kellidotca

Lol. No problem. I figured that newspaper post was risky. I'm okay with it


----------



## jth1959

ken53 said:


> I don't really understand what explaining here. Sorry.
> 
> What I said I tried is this. When in a turn and both wheels freed up, then pulling backwards will lock it up just for bit, assuming you continue the turn. If you continue to pull backwards the tighter it try's to stay locked. Auto-Turn is a one way lockup but only to a point.
> 
> We didn't even get into the springs that play a role when you start splitting hairs.
> 
> You really need to understand how it works, other wise we will get caught talking in circles. If I was an English major or an engineer I might be able to explain it better. I'm just sorry about that.
> 
> I went through the time and effort to learn the system. I understand it, and am impressed by it. I know Hawk studied it, and now understands it also, maybe he can chime in. You really need to learn it. If you do, you won't have a single question, and you won't have to tell anyone "you don't buy it".
> Best of all, if you learn how it works then you can help others.
> 
> Its all in the video.
> 
> Ken


Take a look at the end of the video at the track machine and look at the drive wheels/track. It appears to me one track is driving while the other is not. It looks like the auto-turn allows one wheel or track to slip like a ratchet while the other remains locked.


----------



## docfletcher

Well, yeah it looks like that. But that's not the case. In the video he is pushing it through the turn. He makes it look easy, and I certainly can't get mine to turn with one hand like that.

Another confusing point is when they talk about auto turn allowing full power to the wheels at all times... They mean at all times when the auto turn feature is not engaged. The transition from auto turn on/off is blink eye fast.


----------



## ken53

jth1959 said:


> Take a look at the end of the video at the track machine and look at the drive wheels/track. It appears to me one track is driving while the other is not. It looks like the auto-turn allows one wheel or track to slip like a ratchet while the other remains locked.



I spent 10 minutes using a Pro 28 hydro with Auto-Turn. That one didn't do that like the video shows. On dry black top that inside track let go instantly and stayed let go as long as I kept turning it never moved. The outside track did drive a little but not with full force. I'm guessing the springs kept enough tension to give that outside track with a little power. Or I wasn't turning fast enough to keep it unlocked and was slipping the floating gears right on the edge. Also the springs appear to be strong enough to keep the wheel engaged if the wheels or tracks are on a slippery enough surface. 

The track machine steered great (not near as easy as a wheeled machine) on dry black top. If I had to do over I think I would get that one.

Also there is a little force needed to release and relock it, which would involve the springs too and there tension. I believe when your coasting this could be something you might have to play with.

On mine sometimes the outside wheel can feel like its has partial power to it. I am almost positive, it was because I wasn't turning fast enough and the unit was kicking in and out so rapidly it felt pretty smooth.

It really is designed to have both wheels locked or not. I believe snowman confirmed this awhile back. (Please chime snowman and correct me if I'm wrong.) But... there is an "in the middle" position when its transitioning, that I don't think is not meant to be used. It happens so fast is kind of feels like a ratcheting or a slipping. This makes it feel really sophisticated. Its not though, its suppose to be just in or out.

I wish I could think of a better way to explain it. Maybe in the weeks to come I can come with some better descriptions. Better yet somebody will bail me out here. 

I have an idea. Watch the video a few more times and tell me what I'm missing here.  

PS: Just watch the gears. The wheels may be older videos.

Ken


----------



## jth1959

docfletcher said:


> Well, yeah it looks like that. But that's not the case. In the video he is pushing it through the turn. He makes it look easy, and I certainly can't get mine to turn with one hand like that.
> 
> Another confusing point is when they talk about auto turn allowing full power to the wheels at all times... They mean at all times when the auto turn feature is not engaged. The transition from auto turn on/off is blink eye fast.


Your right. Looking at the video more closely it appears a given difference in the rotation of the tires/shafts allows the inner plates to slide off the high points of the inner facing teeth, this then allows the plates to move together allowing the outer teeth to ratchet at different rates or directions. Therefore little or no power can be applied during this process.

So I guess a given difference in torque from one tire/shaft to the other needs to occur to initiate the auto-turn. My machine is the 921035 which has the 16"x5" tires. Just random thoughts from a mechanical engineer............


----------



## ken53

jth1959 said:


> Your right. Looking at the video more closely it appears a given difference in the rotation of the tires/shafts allows the inner plates to slide off the high points of the inner facing teeth, this then allows the plates to move together allowing the outer teeth to ratchet at different rates or directions. Therefore little or no power can be applied during this process.
> 
> So I guess a given difference in torque from one tire/shaft to the other needs to occur to initiate the auto-turn. My machine is the 921035 which has the 16"x5" tires. Just random thoughts from a mechanical engineer............


Can I butte in one time and then I'll leave.

I have a hunch that a couple of segments showing the tires might be from last years machines. The gears segment would have to be new for sure. Your call. 

****Edit:****
I watched it again. All the wheeled blowers seem to be new 2014s with Auto-Turn. Can't be sure on the tracked machine though. 

Ken


----------



## LT1Formula350

ken53 said:


> I don't really understand what explaining here. Sorry.
> 
> What I said I tried is this. When in a turn and both wheels freed up, then pulling backwards will lock it up just for bit, assuming you continue the turn. If you continue to pull backwards the tighter it try's to stay locked. Auto-Turn is a one way lockup but only to a point.
> 
> We didn't even get into the springs that play a role when you start splitting hairs.
> 
> You really need to understand how it works, other wise we will get caught talking in circles. If I was an English major or an engineer I might be able to explain it better. I'm just sorry about that.
> 
> I went through the time and effort to learn the system. I understand it, and am impressed by it. I know Hawk studied it, and now understands it also, maybe he can chime in. You really need to learn it. If you do, you won't have a single question, and you won't have to tell anyone "you don't buy it".
> Best of all, if you learn how it works then you can help others.
> 
> Its all in the video.
> 
> Ken



Sorry, that's pretty condescending. I come up with a situation that completely refutes how you say it works, and all you can tell me is "watch the video, you clearly don't got it." Sounds like I'm not the only one.


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> Sorry, that's pretty condescending. I come up with a situation that completely refutes how you say it works, and all you can tell me is "watch the video, you clearly don't got it." Sounds like I'm not the only one.


OK seeing that you have it figured out. I' m happy for you.

Then "you" explain it to me how this happens. 

Describing the power from the engine to each wheel. Step by step. 

I am listening.

Ken


----------



## LT1Formula350

ken53 said:


> OK seeing that you have it figured out. I' m happy for you.
> 
> Then "you" explain it to me how this happens.
> 
> Describing the power from the engine to each wheel. Step by step.
> 
> I am listening.
> 
> Ken


I never claimed to fully understand it. Im simply telling you what it actually does and how its inconsistent with how you're so adamantly defending it. There wouldn't be a 23 page thread on something people are imagining. So many people wouldnt be having problems if it were a phantom issue. My suggestion to you is try what I suggested, and then see if you can honestly write that both wheels are either fully engaged or fully disengaged; that NO power can be applied while turning. Thats been your assertion.


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> I never claimed to fully understand it. Im simply telling you what it actually does and how its inconsistent with how you're so adamantly defending it. There wouldn't be a 23 page thread on something people are imagining. So many people wouldnt be having problems if it were a phantom issue. My suggestion to you is try what I suggested, and then see if you can honestly write that both wheels are either fully engaged or fully disengaged; that NO power can be applied while turning. Thats been your assertion.


Yes absolutely. If you are "truly in the process of turning" there is no power to the wheels. There may be a very small amount of residue power from spring tension that keeps the gears in place. (In the video)

Your turn has to be deliberate enough to overcome the speed of the main center gear on the unit. If your in the 6th notch you better turn d*m quick.

I stand by this adamantly.

It really is all in the Video starting at 1:10.

Its not polite to dump your frustration on someone that's trying to help you.

Ken


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> I never claimed to fully understand it. Im simply telling you what it actually does and how its inconsistent with how you're so adamantly defending it. There wouldn't be a 23 page thread on something people are imagining. So many people wouldnt be having problems if it were a phantom issue. My suggestion to you is try what I suggested, and then see if you can honestly write that both wheels are either fully engaged or fully disengaged; that NO power can be applied while turning. Thats been your assertion.


Here is a quote from MovingSnow.com

_In summary, there are no problems with the new differential. The problems are “normal” issues that you will have with all snow blowers. Ariens has not seen any actual malfunctioning differentials. _


----------



## LT1Formula350

ken53 said:


> Yes absolutely. If you are "truly in the process of turning" there is no power to the wheels. There may be a very small amount of residue power from spring tension that keeps the gears in place. (In the video)
> 
> Your turn has to be deliberate enough to overcome the speed of the main center gear on the unit. If your in the 6th notch you better turn d*m quick.
> 
> I stand by this adamantly.
> 
> It really is all in the Video starting at 1:10.
> 
> Its not polite to dump your frustration on someone that's trying to help you.
> 
> Ken


Im not dumping any frustration bud. And I appreciate the insight. It definitely seems like youre coming from a place of bias though. Im telling what it does, and youre all but calling me a liar saying you question the complaints and Its impossible for it to do that. To reference the same video: look at 1:40. You can see the left wheel pull forward slightly WHILE he makes the turn. This is while it ratchets, I get thats part of the system. Its not a constant pull, but you can see it jerking. For some this has proven to be enough to throw the bucket off track. All im saying is that the blanket statement that when you are turning the axles are completely disengaged so its impossible for autoturn to influence the direction of the blower is misleading.


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> ken53 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a quote from MovingSnow.com
> 
> _In summary, there are no problems with the new differential. The problems are “normal” issues that you will have with all snow blowers. Ariens has not seen any actual malfunctioning differentials. _[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> This is reinforcing my point. Its not a defective unit....its the way it works! Theres forward pull while turning. I could make a vidoe to prove it if I must.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree, but I'm glad you sorted out your perception of how Auto-Turn works.
> 
> I think your definition of a turn and mine might be different. I don't consider an arc a turn, when used in context of an Auto-Turn conversation
> 
> I'm open to your perception, you need to explain to me how it happens.
> 
> I'm always willing to listen.
> 
> Ken
Click to expand...


----------



## markp99

I think what I am seeing relative to Auto Turn on my Platinum 24:

1. From the video, where that guy does an easy one-handed U-turn (@00:00:20), you will notice the continuous force and speed of his turn, almost pivoting on the left wheel. Perfect conditions.

2. When I attempt a similar ~U-turn, any lags in speed or smoothness performing the turn is detected by the machine as a ~completion of the turn, locking the axle and causing a very brief, powered forward motion (a lurch-forward action). Continuing the U-turn action disengages the axle once again; rinse and repeat thru the turn. You can see this exact momentary "lurch-forward" action on the right wheel in the demo @ 00:00:29 & 00:00:49. This is exactly what I see.

My Assessment:

So, my assessment of the leftward tracking in my Platinum 24 is this: Small mismatches in traction (ruts, bumps, etc.) cause a small mismatch in wheel speed, which is perceived by the machine as an intentional turn, very momentarily disengaging the axle. The momentum of the machine, against the mismatch in traction, forces a tiny turn in that direction. The axle re-engages and the machine begins to drive in the NEW direction, requiring a correction to re-align (thus the saw-tooth track I noticed last storm). It seems logical there should be some adjustment to increase or decrease this sensitivity, so as NOT to react to minute changes/mismatches in wheel speed as an intentional turn. I wonder if this is possible?

Work-Around:

I have found the following to improve my use of the machine:

1. Followed Ariens instruction to re-align the box and skids, minimizing the potential for traction mismatch issues, even with perfect surface conditions. I will also be adding poly skids to further assist this cause.

2. When My machine appears to be veering off-track, a quick pull/tug against the outside handle makes the tiny course correction quickly. MUCH faster & easier than a PUSH on the opposite handle!

3. When initiating a U-turn, I attempt to perform in a smooth, continuous motion (almost a ~fast motion). Any lags, or snags in this motion will always re-engage the axle and the machine will lurch forward a bit, which feels like I am wrestling against the machine.


There is a small learning curve here. My last clean-up (just a couple fresh inches at the end of the last storm) went very well. The driveway was slick, so no traction issues from the skids. Also, no lags or snags during turns due to excess snow, ice, or ruts. Nice straight tracks, and smooth easy turns.
\ :up:


----------



## jth1959

markp99 said:


> So, my assessment of the leftward tracking in my Platinum 24 is this: Small mismatches in traction (ruts, bumps, etc.) cause a small mismatch in wheel speed, which is perceived by the machine as an intentional turn, very momentarily disengaging the axle. The momentum of the machine, against the mismatch in traction, forces a tiny turn in that direction. The axle re-engages and the machine begins to drive in the NEW direction, requiring a correction to re-align (thus the saw-tooth track I noticed last storm). It seems logical there should be some adjustment to increase or decrease this sensitivity, so as NOT to react to minute changes/mismatches in wheel speed as an intentional turn. I wonder if this is possible?


This is exactly how I think auto-turn works. I'm sure during its development the engineers had to decide what was the sweet spot for auto-turn to activate. Set it up requiring too much force and people complain set it up with too little and people complain. Many real world conditions are obviously activating the system prematurely for some people including me. These can be uneven skid plate pressure, ruts, traction or uneven force on the handles. I'm sure they will get it right with Auto-Turn II..............


----------



## ken53

markp99 said:


> I think what I am seeing relative to Auto Turn on my Platinum 24:
> 
> 1. From the video, where that guy does an easy one-handed U-turn (@00:00:20), you will notice the continuous force and speed of his turn, almost pivoting on the left wheel. Perfect conditions.
> 
> 2. When I attempt a similar ~U-turn, any lags in speed or smoothness performing the turn is detected by the machine as a ~completion of the turn, locking the axle and causing a very brief, powered forward motion (a lurch-forward action). Continuing the U-turn action disengages the axle once again; rinse and repeat thru the turn. You can see this exact momentary "lurch-forward" action on the right wheel in the demo @ 00:00:29 & 00:00:49. This is exactly what I see.
> 
> My Assessment:
> 
> So, my assessment of the leftward tracking in my Platinum 24 is this: Small mismatches in traction (ruts, bumps, etc.) cause a small mismatch in wheel speed, which is perceived by the machine as an intentional turn, very momentarily disengaging the axle. The momentum of the machine, against the mismatch in traction, forces a tiny turn in that direction. The axle re-engages and the machine begins to drive in the NEW direction, requiring a correction to re-align (thus the saw-tooth track I noticed last storm). It seems logical there should be some adjustment to increase or decrease this sensitivity, so as NOT to react to minute changes/mismatches in wheel speed as an intentional turn. I wonder if this is possible?
> 
> Work-Around:
> 
> I have found the following to improve my use of the machine:
> 
> 1. Followed Ariens instruction to re-align the box and skids, minimizing the potential for traction mismatch issues, even with perfect surface conditions. I will also be adding poly skids to further assist this cause.
> 
> 2. When My machine appears to be veering off-track, a quick pull/tug against the outside handle makes the tiny course correction quickly. MUCH faster & easier than a PUSH on the opposite handle!
> 
> 3. When initiating a U-turn, I attempt to perform in a smooth, continuous motion (almost a ~fast motion). Any lags, or snags in this motion will always re-engage the axle and the machine will lurch forward a bit, which feels like I am wrestling against the machine.
> 
> 
> There is a small learning curve here. My last clean-up (just a couple fresh inches at the end of the last storm) went very well. The driveway was slick, so no traction issues from the skids. Also, no lags or snags during turns due to excess snow, ice, or ruts. Nice straight tracks, and smooth easy turns.
> \ :up:


Very well explained. much better then my attempts.

I think the internal springs could be just one variable that is causing different results for different owners when splitting hairs. If they put outward pressure on the floating gears, this pressure has to be overcome by feed back from the wheels. Stiffer springs could slightly assist the design in not kicking out as sensitively. These springs are not designed to play a factor in this, but have to have some minor effects on sensitivity.

Also you touched on this idea, but I got the main thought from Kelli. If the operator can keep an even backward pressure on the machine it should help it be less sensitive to surface texture. This would be because the two floating gears need backward pressure to stay tight to the main center gear cog. 

Just my 2 cents

Excellent post

Ken


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> Im not dumping any frustration bud. And I appreciate the insight. It definitely seems like youre coming from a place of bias though. Im telling what it does, and youre all but calling me a liar saying you question the complaints and Its impossible for it to do that. To reference the same video: look at 1:40. You can see the left wheel pull forward slightly WHILE he makes the turn. This is while it ratchets, I get thats part of the system. Its not a constant pull, but you can see it jerking. For some this has proven to be enough to throw the bucket off track. All im saying is that the blanket statement that when you are turning the axles are completely disengaged so its impossible for autoturn to influence the direction of the blower is misleading.



If believing in a new design is bias, then I am guilty. I am not calling you a liar. If I thought you where a liar I wouldn't be trying to explain this in so many different ways.

All differentials have internal operating friction, in this case some a little more then others. I believe this to be small enough to be not relevant.

We are both under a one big assumption here. We are assuming the video is an accurate model of what we all have in our machines. If it is not then all this is wasted. 

That be said. The two floating gears have to line up perfectly in order for both wheels to be driven. This is impossible if the wheels are at different rpms.

These two same floating gears, if not lined up, will collapse together and release both wheels.

A healthy Auto-Turn can not cause one wheel to steer a machine. Disregarding internal friction.

There are other things in a blower that can cause veering and may be what some are experiencing.

Auto-Turn seems to be this dark stranger in the room for right now, that few know, or understand. Consequently its the first place everyone points their finger at.

Cmon, if you own an LT1 small block you must be an OK guy. 

Ken
LT1 70 1/2 Z28


----------



## LT1Formula350

ken53 said:


> Cmon, if you own an LT1 small block you must be an OK guy.
> 
> Ken
> LT1 70 1/2 Z28



Nice!


----------



## LT1Formula350

GreatCanadian said:


> And there you go. This is the exact information I am looking for. I am assuming yours is the 2014 with AutoTurn? It's functioning exactly like my 2013 Auto Traction Control.
> 
> THAT BEING SAID, I may have a solution. I installed the skids from Snowblowerskids.com because I hoped (or read) that the extra length on the skids would help prevent the bucket from hanging up on uneven ruts or sidewalk lips. Last night I used my snowblower for the first time this year, and the difference is like night and day. I cold practically control the blower with one hand. It was a breeze to use, and NOW I can see the benefit of ATC. However, it was only a 4 inch snowfall, so we'll see what happens when we get a big dump - sure to happen at least half a dozen times this winter. So far so good!! Anyone wants to see pics of the skids let me know.



Thanks for the info on these shoes greatcanadian. I got mine today and tried them out. Definitely made it better. I'm still not sure I'm sold on autoturn, some more time behind it and I might get used to the quirks and learn to like it. Either way these shoes made it at least workable for me. I still need to make a few adjustments here and there when it decides to wander but it's much better.


----------



## LT1Formula350

BTW, while removing the stock skid shoes all 4 carriage bolt nuts were EXTREMELY difficult to turn the entire way up the bolt, so much that they were hot when I finally got them off. Keep in mind this is a 1 month old machine, nothing rusted or anything like that. I actually had to cut one bolt because it wouldn't turn at all towards the end and I started to strip the other square carriage end on the blower housing. Thought it was worth mentioning since I read someone else had a problem with a bolt on a brand new machine.... disappointing. I ended up replacing all of the bolts with new ones that went on easy the way they are supposed to.


----------



## JRHAWK9

ken53 said:


> Ken
> LT1 70 1/2 Z28


IIRC, that's the split bumper 2nd Gen, correct?? KICK BUTT CAR!! I have an LS1 and LS3 in the garage.


----------



## ken53

JRHAWK9 said:


> IIRC, that's the split bumper 2nd Gen, correct?? KICK BUTT CAR!! I have an LS1 and LS3 in the -GARAGE-


I believe so. 1970.5 Z28 Hugger Orange with Black stripes
I bought it barely used from Phil Bengsten's son. (Packer Coach).
His kid got a new car every year.

No split bumper or power steering, cheap interior. (supposedly all lighter weight). 

780 Holley double pumper, racing bowls.
Solid lifters
11-1 compression.
6500 redline
3.73 12 bolt. (wished for a 4.11)
Muncie 4 speed (Rock Crusher)
Hurst short throw
Appliance Headers later.
All good stuff in its day.

Cheap and light. I ran it at Kaukauna back in the 70s.
Pure Stock class. No bracket racing back then. First over the line gets the trophy or I want home empty handed.
Times where 13.8, 13.9. The d*m* Goodyear polyglass tires wanted to spin most of first and second. What I would have given for today's tires.

Sold it with some other big toys when we where buying a house in Florida. The deal slipped through my hands I ended with no Florida house and no more toys. 

*To keep this snow blower related, *I talked to Ariens today on the phone*. *I request some drawings and tech info on Auto-Turn from the engineering dept. It didn't sound to promising. They where polite but seemed a little skittish. I don't blame them. 

We will have talk LS 1 & 3 soon 

Ken


----------



## ken53

LT1Formula350 said:


> Nice!


Sorry for being stubborn. 
There is that saying ... We agree to disagree.

What year LT1 do you have.

Check out my reply to Hawk.

Ken


----------



## jth1959

LT1Formula350 said:


> BTW, while removing the stock skid shoes all 4 carriage bolt nuts were EXTREMELY difficult to turn the entire way up the bolt, so much that they were hot when I finally got them off. Keep in mind this is a 1 month old machine, nothing rusted or anything like that. I actually had to cut one bolt because it wouldn't turn at all towards the end and I started to strip the other square carriage end on the blower housing. Thought it was worth mentioning since I read someone else had a problem with a bolt on a brand new machine.... disappointing. I ended up replacing all of the bolts with new ones that went on easy the way they are supposed to.


Yup, that bolt would be on my machine. One of the ones that attaches the bucket to the frame. I went to loosen it per the instructions, put the socket on it and the bolt head fell off obviously already broken.


----------



## JRHAWK9

ken53 said:


> I believe so. 1970.5 Z28 Hugger Orange with Black stripes
> I bought it barely used from Phil Bengsten's son. (Packer Coach).
> His kid got a new car every year.
> 
> No split bumper or power steering, cheap interior. (supposedly all lighter weight).
> 
> 780 Holley double pumper, racing bowls.
> Solid lifters
> 11-1 compression.
> 6500 redline
> 3.73 12 bolt. (wished for a 4.11)
> Muncie 4 speed (Rock Crusher)
> Hurst short throw
> Appliance Headers later.
> All good stuff in its day.
> 
> Cheap and light. I ran it at Kaukauna back in the 70s.
> Pure Stock class. No bracket racing back then. First over the line gets the trophy or I want home empty handed.
> Times where 13.8, 13.9. The d*m* Goodyear polyglass tires wanted to spin most of first and second. What I would have given for today's tires.
> 
> Sold it with some other big toys when we where buying a house in Florida. The deal slipped through my hands I ended with no Florida house and no more toys.
> 
> *To keep this snow blower related, *I talked to Ariens today on the phone*. *I request some drawings and tech info on Auto-Turn from the engineering dept. It didn't sound to promising. They where polite but seemed a little skittish. I don't blame them.
> 
> We will have talk LS 1 & 3 soon
> 
> Ken


awesome car! My dad had a '68 GTO with the "Rock Crusher" and Hurst. 

Anyway, back on track...
I'm sure they weren't too willing to forgo any of that info. They were probably thinking you were an operative working for some Chinese company wanting to copy their Auto-turn so they can put it on next year's model. Although they don't seem to need to have to do that to copy things, they just buy it and reverse engineer it.


----------



## Bill55

*Installing Auto Turn differential on older Ariens*

Ok Guys!
I own an older Deluxe 30 and I was so impressed with the auto turn feature that I contacted Ariens help and they provided me with the replacement part number to install the Auto turn ( Order Auto Turn diff. number 04584100)

So I am heading out this PM to install the new Auto turn diff. I assume all I have to do is to remove the right wheel clip and the roll pin at the left side of the axle shaft then pull the left wheel out far enough to remove the old differential and replace it with the new Auto turn diff.

Anyway wish me luck and I will get back to you all and tell you how well my plan worked.. (O:

Bill


----------



## JRHAWK9

Bill55 said:


> Ok Guys!
> I own an older Deluxe 30 and I was so impressed with the auto turn feature that I contacted Ariens help and they provided me with the replacement part number to install the Auto turn ( Order Auto Turn diff. number 04584100)
> 
> So I am heading out this PM to install the new Auto turn diff. I assume all I have to do is to remove the right wheel clip and the roll pin at the left side of the axle shaft then pull the left wheel out far enough to remove the old differential and replace it with the new Auto turn diff.
> 
> Anyway wish me luck and I will get back to you all and tell you how well my plan worked.. (O:
> 
> Bill


I just converted my ATC Pro 32 to Auto-Turn, see link below:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...rting-atc-pro-32-into-auto-turn-pro-32-a.html


----------



## Bill55

Great post! Pictures are amazing. Gives me the confidence to go ahead as planned


----------



## Bill55

*Installing Auto Turn differential on older Ariens*

Well well. It looked as easy as falling off a table.

My major problem with the switch was the roll pin. Try as I might I just could not get it to budge. In the end it looked like a beat down rivet, on both ends.

Not to be dis-waded, I used a 4.5" side grinder to grind off both mangled ends of the roll pin. I then unbolted the left wheel bearing housing and pulled everything clear of the old Diff. Then replaced it with the auto turn diff. I slid everything back in place and was going to use one of those SS steel hose clamps in place of the roll pin to hold the wheel on . 

What I ended up doing was building two 1" dia bearing blocks which I bolted together onto the shaft. BTW I tried drilling out the roll pin but my bits were just not up to the job.

A lot of work for such a little job. But that is usually the way.

Bill Patiently waiting for the next snow.


----------



## fishrman

LT1Formula350 said:


> Thanks for the info on these shoes greatcanadian. I got mine today and tried them out. Definitely made it better. I'm still not sure I'm sold on autoturn, some more time behind it and I might get used to the quirks and learn to like it. Either way these shoes made it at least workable for me. I still need to make a few adjustments here and there when it decides to wander but it's much better.


 I too got my new longer skids and got to try them out today. The difference is like night and day! Much easier to operate the machine. I think Ariens needs to consider putting these on as standard equipment!


----------



## GreatCanadian

It truly does make a big difference. I have no complaints since getting the armorskids.


----------



## MnJim

I have only had my 28 Deluxe for a couple of weeks and a couple of uses and it still has stock skids and couldn't be happier hard to imagine how much better it could be with longer skids.

What might make a interesting video for one of you guys into making videos is a video with AT and Ghost driver and see what one does without operator intereference.


----------



## Leon

MnJim said:


> I have only had my 28 Deluxe for a couple of weeks and a couple of uses and it still has stock skids and couldn't be happier hard to imagine how much better it could be with longer skids.
> 
> What might make a interesting video for one of you guys into making videos is a video with AT and Ghost driver and see what one does without operator intereference.


For some reason that reminds me of "_ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES_"


----------



## InfernoST

Hi All, Im new here and have been reading this thread over the past couple of days. Thanks for all of the great information. I just picked up a 2014 Platinum 30, I made the adjustments to the machine as per Ariens youtube video as best I could (just couldn't find a perfectly flat surface but did get really close) and am hoping she handles well for her maiden voyage which should be this Thursday, we are going to get slammed again here in Brooklyn, NY. If the machine proves to be a bear to handle I think I will be taking a crack at that spring in the diff, I just hope it doesn't come to that.


----------



## docfletcher

Welcome to the forum InfernoST. Perhaps if you would describe the surface type it will be used on and the general terrain we may be able to suggest a few things. On my Pro 28 the Ariens poly skids did a great job of smoothing out the machine. 

I don't believe I would be one to mess around with the internal workings of the diff/auto turn. A few guys here I feel sure will chime in with thoughts on that.


----------



## InfernoST

Thanks for the welcome Doc. 

I have a unique situation, I'm using my machine on all cement/concrete surfaces with my biggest challenge being the driveway which is about 90 feet long and shared with my neighbor with ZERO room to throw the snow to the sides so it must be thrown straight out from the backyard to the front of the house this is the main reason I upgraded to the Platinum 30 from my older 2 stage small craftsman (179cc).

My other concern is all of the expansion joints and uneven surfaces with quite a few blocks of sidewalk cement higher than others creating lips for the sno-thro's bucket to get caught on and all of the old hard snow & ice left over from the previous storms.

I ordered a set of Arien Poly skids through my dealer, the metal stock skids mark up the cement pretty good. If I have major issues handling the machine I will order a replacement diff to experiment with, it looks to be an extremely simple device that can easily be modified to de-sensitize it.

We will see how it goes this week during her maiden voyage.


----------



## mtd1024

InfernoST said:


> Thanks for the welcome Doc.
> 
> I have a unique situation, I'm using my machine on all cement/concrete surfaces with my biggest challenge being the driveway which is about 90 feet long and shared with my neighbor with ZERO room to throw the snow to the sides so it must be thrown straight out from the backyard to the front of the house this is the main reason I upgraded to the Platinum 30 from my older 2 stage small craftsman (179cc).
> 
> My other concern is all of the expansion joints and uneven surfaces with quite a few blocks of sidewalk cement higher than others creating lips for the sno-thro's bucket to get caught on and all of the old hard snow & ice left over from the previous storms.
> 
> I ordered a set of Arien Poly skids through my dealer, the metal stock skids mark up the cement pretty good. If I have major issues handling the machine I will order a replacement diff to experiment with, it looks to be an extremely simple device that can easily be modified to de-sensitize it.
> 
> We will see how it goes this week during her maiden voyage.


Have you considered concrete leveling? If not, there are companies who can remove and replace the uneven concrete. Check Angie's List or try your local yellow pages to find vendors in your area.


----------



## InfernoST

mtd1024 said:


> Have you considered concrete leveling? If not, there are companies who can remove and replace the uneven concrete. Check Angie's List or try your local yellow pages to find vendors in your area.


This would be the neighbors on the block to take care of. I have a lot of elderly people on my block so I usually do the entire block.


----------



## throttlejunkie450

once yah put the poly skids on or the armors your snowblower will act how its supposed to like every other snowblower.i have only put poly skids on my new auto turn an have armors sitting on my work bench.i have used my new machine 3 times on different types of driveways from new smoothe to broken jagged asphalt and bricks all with old crusty snow an lots of chuncky ice.my blower handled it like every posi tracked blower .getting rid of the stock skids is huge inprovment.you wont even consider wanting to make any changes to the differential


----------



## InfernoST

throttlejunkie450 said:


> once yah put the poly skids on or the armors your snowblower will act how its supposed to like every other snowblower.i have only put poly skids on my new auto turn an have armors sitting on my work bench.i have used my new machine 3 times on different types of driveways from new smoothe to broken jagged asphalt and bricks all with old crusty snow an lots of chuncky ice.my blower handled it like every posi tracked blower .getting rid of the stock skids is huge inprovment.you wont even consider wanting to make any changes to the differential


Thanks throttlejunkie. Unfortunately I wont have them in my hands until after the storm but wont mess with anything until I use it with them. Who knows it may fair well with the stock units tomorrow.


----------



## HankSwat

I am interested in buying my first two-stage snow blower and narrowed to the Ariens Deluxe 24 or the Cub Cadet 24SWE. Members heavily discussed the Ariens Auto-Turn last winter with a 50/50 split with those being happy with it and those that were dissatisfied.

*This being a new winter, are there any new thoughts about the Ariens Auto-Turn.*

Hank


----------



## dbcooper

HankSwat said:


> I am interested in buying my first two-stage snow blower and narrowed to the Ariens Deluxe 24 or the Cub Cadet 24SWE. Members heavily discussed the Ariens Auto-Turn last winter with a 50/50 split with those being happy with it and those that were dissatisfied.
> 
> *This being a new winter, are there any new thoughts about the Ariens Auto-Turn.*
> 
> Hank


I bought a new Ariens this year and love the Autoturn, I only have used it a few times but so far so good, I would not buy a machine without it. the old machine was a 26" MTD that I ran for about 17 years, the new one is night and day to work with/control and its a bigger machine as well.

It worked great on my flat concrete driveway, concrete driveway with tire tracks were a non issue and my dirt driveway that 150' or so long was not an issue either.

I say go for it.


----------



## Ariens Company

*Ariens Auto-Turn*



HankSwat said:


> I am interested in buying my first two-stage snow blower and narrowed to the Ariens Deluxe 24 or the Cub Cadet 24SWE. Members heavily discussed the Ariens Auto-Turn last winter with a 50/50 split with those being happy with it and those that were dissatisfied.
> 
> *This being a new winter, are there any new thoughts about the Ariens Auto-Turn.*
> 
> Hank


Hank -

Last year there were some snow blowers with Auto-Turn that pulled to one side or the other. This is not how the Auto-Turn was intended to operate, and there was an adjustment that needed to be made to those models. 

We made this correction at the factory, but if there are snow blowers equipped with Auto-Turn out there that pull either left or right, the housing may just need to be leveled. Here is a video demonstrating this adjustment.

The Auto-Turn is a great feature and makes it easier to maneuver the snow blower. Let us know if you have any questions.

Thanks.


----------



## Wildcat_1

Ariens
Is it safe to say that units currently in Home Depot stores have had this adjustment completed ?

Thanks



Ariens Company said:


> Hank -
> 
> Last year there were some snow blowers with Auto-Turn that pulled to one side or the other. This is not how the Auto-Turn was intended to operate, and there was an adjustment that needed to be made to those models.
> 
> We made this correction at the factory, but if there are snow blowers equipped with Auto-Turn out there that pull either left or right, the housing may just need to be leveled. Here is a video demonstrating this adjustment.
> 
> The Auto-Turn is a great feature and makes it easier to maneuver the snow blower. Let us know if you have any questions.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## JRHAWK9

Wildcat_1 said:


> Ariens
> Is it safe to say that units currently in Home Depot stores have had this adjustment completed ?
> 
> Thanks


I couldn't even say, with confidence, the ones found in HD (and other big box stores) are even assembled correctly....lol


----------



## HillnGullyRider

Wildcat_1 said:


> Ariens
> Is it safe to say that units currently in Home Depot stores have had this adjustment completed ?
> 
> Thanks


I would say that's unsafe to say


----------



## TheHolyCannoli

Wildcat_1 said:


> Ariens
> Is it safe to say that units currently in Home Depot stores have had this adjustment completed ?
> 
> Thanks





JRHAWK9 said:


> I couldn't even say, with confidence, the ones found in HD (and other big box stores) are even assembled correctly....lol





HillnGullyRider said:


> I would say that's unsafe to say


Short answer: **** no


Long answer: When John from the paint department is done advising a customer on upgrading their circuit breaker box, and after he helps somebody choose the correct insulation material, John is asked to assemble a few machines including power washers, tractors, and snowblowers before being called to power tools for customer assistance.

In my opinion, you should be double checking the entire assembly and making adjustments so that you know for a fact that everything is in its proper place.


----------



## Wildcat_1

Thanks for the replies all. You are right you absolutely want to check the unit yourself, just wondered if there was a certain serial range etc that had adjustments made


----------



## pckeen

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to chime in with what I found out. The auto-turn doesn't have a single axle - it has two halves - one coming into either side of the auto-turn differential, which allows the wheels to turn independently, and in opposite directions. The video below was very helpful (posted elsewhere in these forums) in understanding how it works.

Ultimately, I'm going to be picking up one of these. I'll post a review once I see how it works on my hill.


----------



## MagnumB

GreatCanadian said:


> I have the 2013 Platinum 30 with ATC, and I find that I am always struggling to keep it running straight. It's a workout let me tell ya !! Now, I am in no way disputing Brian McSouthJersey's impressions of the ATC, because that's what you're going to find when reading about the ATC feature. It appears to work extremely well for some, while others like me don't like it. I personally prefer the deluxe model which uses the trigger. That being said, I am thinking that my driveway may have something to do with the function of the ATC. I have a lot of dips and such. When one side of the bucket dips, the cutting bar catches in the driveway, and the ATC frees up one wheel because it thinks I want to turn. I am ordering the bigger skid shoes from snowblowerskids.com to see if that helps improve the situation any. I have used it on my neighbors driveway a couple of times and it seems to work a bit better there. His driveway is a little more flat than mine.


I haven't read through the thread due to time constraints, however it occurs to me why some have no issue with the ATC and some do. I think it has to do with the width of the machine and the leverage exerted on a wider machine if the outboard portions of the shroud get hung up. The yawing moment has considerably more authority applied to it by that long lever a 30" cut width has vs a 24". Meaning, with shorter lever acting on the differential, it takes a more abrupt and stronger yaw force to unlock it. 

If they are using the same diff units across the line without compensating for width with stronger springs, then it makes it pretty clear where the problem lies. 

A quick survey might find narrower machine owners like the feature more. In thinking about it, this is the only explanation I could come up with. I am sure there are others. But that's my 2 cents. 

Even if they are indeed tuned for width, perhaps they don't have them tuned properly. Hope this wasn't redundant or stupid. 

Cheers


----------



## Ariens Company

*Auto-Turn Feature*



Wildcat_1 said:


> Ariens
> Is it safe to say that units currently in Home Depot stores have had this adjustment completed ?
> 
> Thanks


We did find the issue at the end of last years' season, and this years' models have all been resolved.

There was no regularity to this issue, so we could not determine a certain build time/serial number break. It was addressed as a fix as needed type of situation because we did not know if it would happen until the unit was out in the field. 

The instructional video was created to provide instructions for the end-user to adjust their unit if they were experiencing this issue.

Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns about this.

Thanks.


----------



## storf

Hi all.

I currently shopping for a replacement snow blower. So far...the Ariens pro Hydro Track 28 is leading the short list but I may now be rethinking that. 

Before finding this forum...the Auto-Turn feature was making me nervous. After reading all the posts in here...I'm thinking this may not be the correct blower for me. Perhaps some input from others will help.

Let me start by saying I currently use a 1998 Craftsman track 26"(MTD). This has the triggers for turning which although not perfect by any stretch...do function and help control the blower. Shes getting very rusty and needs to be replaced.

My drive is 150-200 feet long (asphalt) downhill to the road. 20 degrees down to start (1st 20 feet) calming down to 5-10 degrees for the remainder. Both sides have asphalt curbing. Although the drive was re-surfaced 8 years ago..there are numerous cracks.

Because of the slope I have, I remove all the snow before driving on it. I run my current blower with the shaver plate scraping right down to the pavement. This results in lots of steering corrections to maintain a straight forward line. This also means replacing the shaver plate each season.

I really want to buy a high quality snow blower and Ariens seems to be the top of the line. I'm now thinking, however, any blower with Auto-Turn may create issues I don't want to spend 3K on. It seems this is a great option if you have a flat, smooth driveway and are ok leaving 1/8th inch of snow on it but I'm just not that guy. When I blow snow.."bucket impacts" are constant.

Thanks for all the info in this forum!

thoughts....


----------



## celltech

I wish Ariens would provide a kit to disable auto turn. I love everything about my blower but that.


----------



## HillnGullyRider

Storf....Option #1 is still just that...an option

OK, just to review and clarify for y'all. There are four different options out there for the Ariens LARGE frame blowers (three are still available from the parts bin)...Let's review:

1. ---Spur gear drive.
The spur gear drive is ALWAYS driving both wheels/tracks forward, even in turns. There is is a trigger that can unlock one wheel to help aid in turning but this spur gear acts like a solid locked axle for the majority of the time. 

2. ---Trigger lock differential
The trigger lock differential acts like an OPEN differential the majority of the time. Both wheels operate independently when in drive but usually just one wheel or the other is providing motive force. This option makes it easy to turn the machine even when the motor is not running. This differential acts like the early 1960's differentials but instead of stopping, bending down to engage the lock knob on the wheel, you can actuate a trigger with a hand lever on the fly and ... voila, you have a locked axle, kind of like the spur gear in opposite. There is a cam that pushes a hollow tube that surrounds the axle, this exerts pressure on the differential springs and locks both axles together.

3. ---Hilliard differential
The Hilliard differential is an AUTOMATIC differential. If one wheel slips it sends power to the other wheel automatically, no triggers needed...This option is like the autoturn, however the autoturn has a different manufacturer. Hilliard is no longer the supplier to Ariens and if you try to order one you'll receive an auto turn diff instead.

4.--- The AutoTurn differential
This option has already been thoroughly explained earlier in this thread. It's worth noting that the axle splines changed when Ariens switched from option #2 to option #3. This means that the Hilliard and the Autoturn are directly interchangeable with no other parts, but you will need the axles that come in the AT kit if you want to switch from #1 or #2 to Option #4....Vice versa, It's possible to switch from option #4 to the spur gear or trigger diff (options #1 & #2) but you would need early axles and associated parts...The spur gear itself is only $40 so it would be about the same $150 to switch over as it would if switching from #1 or #2 to #4....One last item, Large frame blowers came with two types of wheel/axle connections. One uses Pins and the other uses a key way and clips. Switching axles around is only worth it IMO if you have CLIP style wheels because you'd have to buy new wheel assemblies in addition to everything else in order to upgrade your pinned wheel machine.

---------------------
On edit...There may be one more option to perfect the Autoturn for people with problem driveways or steering issues, but it's a non stock option. It will take ingenuity and fabrication skills.

My idea is to make the autoturn a skid steer by using cheap go-cart band brakes on the wheels, you could then apply the brakes independently to make course correction...This would be a simplified version of the Husqvarna style steering, but it's far simpler mechanically, virtually nothing to break and adjustment would be simple. Tap the right brake right to correct right, tap the left brake to correct left, the rest of the time it will act like a locked axle.


----------



## celltech

celltech said:


> I wish Ariens would provide a kit to disable auto turn. I love everything about my blower but that.




After doing the bucket adjustment and adding poly skids, this machine is awesome. I can now say I'm a 100% satisfied with my blower.


----------



## fishrman

Ariens Company said:


> We did find the issue at the end of last years' season, and this years' models have all been resolved.
> 
> There was no regularity to this issue, so we could not determine a certain build time/serial number break. It was addressed as a fix as needed type of situation because we did not know if it would happen until the unit was out in the field.
> 
> The instructional video was created to provide instructions for the end-user to adjust their unit if they were experiencing this issue.
> 
> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns about this.
> 
> Thanks.


 I am still confused as to what the fix was!! Was it a combination of things on different machines or what did you fix at the factory to make it all better??? Was it a quality control problem in making sure everything was square??


----------



## j06096

*auto turn ??? NOT junk junk junk*

EDITED EDITED EDITED- using the video i was sent after contacting ariens to complain about the auto steer, the issue appears to have been resolved by adjusting the housing and skid plates. it goes straight and turns easily on dry pavement. will have to wait to see how it does in snow.

hopefully, next time, ariens will include a paragraph or two in the user manual about the auto steer feature (other than just telling me it exists and it's wonderful) and variables which affect it's performance.

below is their response, and my original email.

*"auto steer"*

Response By Email (Richard) (01/11/2015 12:06 PM)
Jim,

Thank you for contacting the Ariens Company.

We're sorry to hear that your Ariens Sno-Thro is not performing as designed.

The Auto-turn differential cannot be disabled, or deactivated at-will.

It is, however, affected by other adjustments on the machine, and that being said, we recommend watching the following video on adjustments:





 
Please reply to this message with any further questions or concerns. We are happy to help.

Thank you,
Richard
Tech Service Specialist
Ariens Company



Auto-Response By (Administrator) (01/09/2015 12:26 PM)
The following answers might help you immediately. (Answers open in a separate window.)
Answer Link: Sno-Thro Products Sorted by Typical Snow Falls & Clearing Areas
Answer Link: **Snow Blower Troubleshooting Tips**
Answer Link: Turning a Zero Turn Without a Steering Wheel
Answer Link: Sno-Thro Start Up
Answer Link: Snow Blower Won't Start

Customer By CSS Web (jim bates) (01/09/2015 12:26 PM)
could someone at ariens perhaps explain to me how to either disengage or engage the auto steer "feature" on my otherwise very good snow blower. as it is now, it is the worst product i have ever had the displeasure of using (for 3 minor snow events.) 

IT GOES WHERE IT WANTS TO, AND THAT IS NEVER IN A STRAIGHT LINE !!!!!

i am 6 ft 4, 260 lbs, strong as 2 oxes, and this thing has dragged my a** all over the place for 2 hours as i clear three driveways. 

it starts pulling right or left all on its own, and sometimes it takes all my strength to get it to stop, but then it just over corrects and starts to pull me to the right.

if i just hold down the drive lever with one hand, it goes in a relatively tight left hand circle.

the machine is a beast. weighs a ton. is my second ariens after my last one lasted 17 years and many tons of CT snow

i have attached 2 pictures to show me trying to go in a straight line today after 2 inches of light snow.

END

i have always loved snow blowing, now i dread it. i will try their video suggestion (which is so simplistic i am doubtful) and update this.


----------



## Johnny_W

Make sure you check the tire sizes. Once you've done everything in the video replace the skids with poly skids from Home Depot or buy armor skids. Please don't buy the skids from Ariens, it's just rewarding them for selling a great snow blower with pathetic skids.

I had the same issue including the lack of customer service. I replaced the skids and now the machine is a joy to use.
Take a look here for for my story. http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens-snowblowers/12298-ariens-auto-turn-adjustment-11.html

I'm also waiting for a response in the sponsor area. I'm starting to think they don't want to fix the issue and are actively ignoring any related complaints. http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens/31337-ariens-company-5.html


----------



## Ariens Company

j06096 said:


> you asked for auto turn thoughts. i have a brand new 28 inch.
> 
> it is the worst feature i have ever encountered. i am pasting my email to ariens, and their entirely unsatisfying response (answer on top, question below)
> 
> *Subject*
> 
> *"auto steer"*
> 
> Response By Email (Richard) (01/11/2015 12:06 PM)
> Jim,
> 
> Thank you for contacting the Ariens Company.
> 
> We're sorry to hear that your Ariens Sno-Thro is not performing as designed.
> 
> The Auto-turn differential cannot be disabled, or deactivated at-will.
> 
> It is, however, affected by other adjustments on the machine, and that being said, we recommend watching the following video on adjustments:
> 
> Auto -Turn
> 
> Please reply to this message with any further questions or concerns. We are happy to help.
> 
> Thank you,
> Richard
> Tech Service Specialist
> Ariens Company
> 
> 
> 
> Auto-Response By (Administrator) (01/09/2015 12:26 PM)
> The following answers might help you immediately. (Answers open in a separate window.)
> Answer Link: Sno-Thro Products Sorted by Typical Snow Falls & Clearing Areas
> Answer Link: **Snow Blower Troubleshooting Tips**
> Answer Link: Turning a Zero Turn Without a Steering Wheel
> Answer Link: Sno-Thro Start Up
> Answer Link: Snow Blower Won't Start
> 
> Customer By CSS Web (jim bates) (01/09/2015 12:26 PM)
> could someone at ariens perhaps explain to me how to either disengage or engage the auto steer "feature" on my otherwise very good snow blower. as it is now, it is the worst product i have ever had the displeasure of using (for 3 minor snow events.)
> 
> IT GOES WHERE IT WANTS TO, AND THAT IS NEVER IN A STRAIGHT LINE !!!!!
> 
> i am 6 ft 4, 260 lbs, strong as 2 oxes, and this thing has dragged my a** all over the place for 2 hours as i clear three driveways.
> 
> it starts pulling right or left all on its own, and sometimes it takes all my strength to get it to stop, but then it just over corrects and starts to pull me to the right.
> 
> if i just hold down the drive lever with one hand, it goes in a relatively tight left hand circle.
> 
> the machine is a beast. weighs a ton. is my second ariens after my last one lasted 17 years and many tons of CT snow
> 
> i have attached 2 pictures to show me trying to go in a straight line today after 2 inches of light snow.
> 
> END
> 
> i have always loved snow blowing, now i dread it. i will try their video suggestion (which is so simplistic i am doubtful) and update this.


Jim -

Sorry you are having trouble. Did you make the adjustments and it still is not working correctly? If so, please let me know and someone can give you a call to help with the adjustments. Most customers were able to make the adjustments suggested in the video to make their unit work. If you made the adjustments and the unit still isn't working, we want to work with you.

Please let me know, and send a private message with your contact information so we can work with you.

Thanks.

Mary Lyn


----------



## PeterD

j06096 said:


> IT GOES WHERE IT WANTS TO, AND THAT IS NEVER IN A STRAIGHT LINE !!!!!
> I am 6 ft 4, 260 lbs, strong as 2 oxes, and this thing has dragged my a** all over the place...It starts pulling right or left all on its own, and sometimes it takes all my strength to get it to stop, but then it just over corrects and starts to pull me to the right.


Greetings all. Jim's experience is mirroring my own. But let me step back a bit (and hi all, new member here).

My old Ariens 926101 Home Despot Special lasted 8 years. I retired it because I needed something easier to steer and that could handle the heavy, wet 8:1 ratio snow we always get in NJ. Money wasn't an option, and reviews pointed me to a 2015 Platinum 30" SHO model.

Mistake #1: I bought it from Power Equipment Direct in Illinois. Notice how I said I'm in New Jersey. So I'm stuck with this albatross. My local dealer was sold out in early November and won't get any more this season, so buying locally just wasn't an option.

Mistake #2: I failed to observe that it shipped in a crate, not pre-assembled and tested. I am a writer by trade. I own a few wrenches and screwdrivers but that's it. I am useless mechanically, and I prefer to solve technical problems with a VISA card.

So the I had to pay a dealer to assemble the machine. They did a less-than-stellar job (more on that later) but got it running in time for 5.5" of heavy wet snow on Saturday morning. The machine was absolutely uncontrollable. Period. It fishtailed unexpectedly, wildly and quite violently on my uneven cracked asphalt 130' driveway.

I then found this site and watched the video on how to align the machine. I followed the steps exactly and discovered the idiots I paid to assemble the machine failed to set tire pressures correctly. One trip to the gas station later, both tires were at 20.0 psi on my new digital tire gauge. Bucket-frame bolts loosened, handlebars pressed down a few times, impeller frame pushed down, and four bolts tightened. 1/8" wood slat placed under the scaper bar, original-equipment skids pressed down onto the level concrete garage floor and their bolts tightened. I gassed up the machine and waited until today's storm.

It handled maybe 30-40% better with properly inflated tires, but it still cannot go in a straight line. If you look behind the machine at the track marks it leaves behind it almost looks like it was being operated by a drunkard after leaving the tavern.

I am in a real bind here. I vehemently and passionately dislike the auto-turn feature and wish whoever invented it had never been born. But on the upside, the machine is a frakkin' beast and the AX 414 engine is phenomenally powerful, seemingly delighted in being stressed with a full impeller of glop.

But I simply cannot use it due to the fishtailing issue. I called my local dealer, who enquired where I bought it (snowblowersdirect.com, a division of PED). They told me point blank that it's not their problem, and they'll fix it--at $90 an hour--when they feel like it. Their loyalty is with the people who bought from them. And I just don't trust their "mechanics" any further than I can throw this SHO. If they can't set tire pressures and route chute control cables like the ones in their showroom, I simply cannot trust them to adjust a wonky auto-turn.

A reminder: This machine is less than a week out of the crate, I waited 7 weeks for the dealer to get it in stock and I paid $1850 for it. I expected better -- FAR better, in fact. And another reminder, as I said before, I have less than zero mechanical aptitude, nor do I feel I should need any, aside from reading the manual, gassing it up, pushing the start button and clearing my driveway.

Guys, what can I do here? I'm at my wits' end over this. Every second I was out there I was regretting not buying a Toro, watching my neighbours clearing their driveways with old MTDs and Sears specials that look as old as Methuselah's grandpa. But were at least blowing in a straight line.


----------



## bombidude

Blue Hill said:


> Went to my local dealer today and came away with a bad feeling. They want to charge an extra $130.00 for set up. This is a large "green" farm implement dealer who sells Ariens as a sideline out of 8 branches, so they cover the entire south part of Saskatchewan. Think volume buying. If I care to drive 2 hours I can go to either of 2 small dealers and buy the same machine with no set up charge. I can't even go to the depot, because they don't sell the platinum 24 in Canada. Makes my blood boil!


You should be able to go to the depot and order it online and pick up in the store.. I've done that before. Oh you already bought one.


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## AverageJoe

PeterD said:


> Greetings all. Jim's experience is mirroring my own. But let me step back a bit (and hi all, new member here).
> 
> My old Ariens 926101 Home Despot Special lasted 8 years. I retired it because I needed something easier to steer and that could handle the heavy, wet 8:1 ratio snow we always get in NJ. Money wasn't an option, and reviews pointed me to a 2015 Platinum 30" SHO model.
> 
> Mistake #1: I bought it from Power Equipment Direct in Illinois. Notice how I said I'm in New Jersey. So I'm stuck with this albatross. My local dealer was sold out in early November and won't get any more this season, so buying locally just wasn't an option.
> 
> Mistake #2: I failed to observe that it shipped in a crate, not pre-assembled and tested. I am a writer by trade. I own a few wrenches and screwdrivers but that's it. I am useless mechanically, and I prefer to solve technical problems with a VISA card.
> 
> So the I had to pay a dealer to assemble the machine. They did a less-than-stellar job (more on that later) but got it running in time for 5.5" of heavy wet snow on Saturday morning. The machine was absolutely uncontrollable. Period. It fishtailed unexpectedly, wildly and quite violently on my uneven cracked asphalt 130' driveway.
> 
> I then found this site and watched the video on how to align the machine. I followed the steps exactly and discovered the idiots I paid to assemble the machine failed to set tire pressures correctly. One trip to the gas station later, both tires were at 20.0 psi on my new digital tire gauge. Bucket-frame bolts loosened, handlebars pressed down a few times, impeller frame pushed down, and four bolts tightened. 1/8" wood slat placed under the scaper bar, original-equipment skids pressed down onto the level concrete garage floor and their bolts tightened. I gassed up the machine and waited until today's storm.
> 
> It handled maybe 30-40% better with properly inflated tires, but it still cannot go in a straight line. If you look behind the machine at the track marks it leaves behind it almost looks like it was being operated by a drunkard after leaving the tavern.
> 
> I am in a real bind here. I vehemently and passionately dislike the auto-turn feature and wish whoever invented it had never been born. But on the upside, the machine is a frakkin' beast and the AX 414 engine is phenomenally powerful, seemingly delighted in being stressed with a full impeller of glop.
> 
> But I simply cannot use it due to the fishtailing issue. I called my local dealer, who enquired where I bought it (snowblowersdirect.com, a division of PED). They told me point blank that it's not their problem, and they'll fix it--at $90 an hour--when they feel like it. Their loyalty is with the people who bought from them. And I just don't trust their "mechanics" any further than I can throw this SHO. If they can't set tire pressures and route chute control cables like the ones in their showroom, I simply cannot trust them to adjust a wonky auto-turn.
> 
> A reminder: This machine is less than a week out of the crate, I waited 7 weeks for the dealer to get it in stock and I paid $1850 for it. I expected better -- FAR better, in fact. And another reminder, as I said before, I have less than zero mechanical aptitude, nor do I feel I should need any, aside from reading the manual, gassing it up, pushing the start button and clearing my driveway.
> 
> Guys, what can I do here? I'm at my wits' end over this. Every second I was out there I was regretting not buying a Toro, watching my neighbours clearing their driveways with old MTDs and Sears specials that look as old as Methuselah's grandpa. But were at least blowing in a straight line.



I had the same issues with my 24" Plat..drove me crazy. I honestly think that if you install the Armour Skids your issues will go away....i was doubtful but my experience made me a believer.


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## Johnny_W

AverageJoe said:


> I had the same issues with my 24" Plat..drove me crazy. I honestly think that if you install the Armour Skids your issues will go away....i was doubtful but my experience made me a believer.


Upgrade the skids and you will be happy. Buy the armour or poly skids. They are easy to install and make all the difference. 
Why ariens continues to sell an excellent machine with such an obvious issue is a mystery only they can explain. They seem to be intentionally ignoring all of the complaints. 
I can only assume they are choosing cost savings over reputation.


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## PeterD

I'm putting in an order for the Armor skids shortly and we'll see. But to me, this auto-turn nonsense took a good engine, good auger/impeller/gear case and over complicated it needlessly. The trigger locks look like the best solution for easy turning, but I really need the beefier impeller and dual auger belts for all the heavy, wet snow that's so common in my part of the country.


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## j06096

soooooooo, i went and got generic poly skids at HD. they went on easy enough, and i am here to report now, after "blizzard2015" (what a joke) and about 13 inches, this machine is outstanding. it is a beast and was one of the easiest blowing experiences ever. i may not have grasped the nuances of the auto steer, and may be under utilizing it (still lifting to turn) but it was all good. 
c'mon ariens. do the right thing, put poly skids on the machine to start, and own up to the issues in the PDF user's manual you have posted on your web site. tell marketing to go stuff themselves.


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## Johnny_W

I read somewhere that if you called Ariens and complained about the skids they would send you poly skids at no cost. When I tried this I was told "Well, we used to do that but that was two years ago". 
So, they've know about the issue for 2 years and still haven't done anything? I'd like to think the people who did care at Ariens had this fight two years ago and have since given up. 
I've contacted Ariens and experienced what I can only describe as poor customer service. By the end I was told to bring my snow blower back to the dealer. I checked everything in the alignment video. The dealer set everything up perfectly.
I contacted the dealer and told them Ariens is pushing this issue off on them, wasting both of our time and money chasing an issue the are well aware of. Heck, I even emailed the C.E.O. of Ariens and got no response.
They know what the issue is and are unwilling to address it. The first step to recovery is admitting you have an issue and after two years of people telling you that you have an issue it should be painfully obvious. Perhaps it's time for an intervention.

Ariens, we love you but we have something we need to talk to you about.


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## uberT

I think you can walk into Home Depot and purchase the optional poly skids. They're $30 for the set 

My local stores show inventory.


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## PeterD

I'm going to try the Armors since they look like they're really well built. Is there any advantage to the polys (other than convenience and maybe price)? I'm after performance and a way to finally fix the fishtailing on uneven ground. Price be damned at this point; in for a penny, in for a pound.


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## InfernoST

PeterD said:


> I'm going to try the Armors since they look like they're really well built. Is there any advantage to the polys (other than convenience and maybe price)? I'm after performance and a way to finally fix the fishtailing on uneven ground. Price be damned at this point; in for a penny, in for a pound.


I put the Poly's on my Platinum 30 after performing the alignment procedure outlined in the video and they have worked wonders for me.


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## Johnny_W

I think the only advantage of the poly skids over the Armour skids is that the poly skids won't leave scrape marks on the surface being cleared. I chose the poly skids because I have a pressed concrete front walk. I think the Armour skids would be better for gravel or other very uneven surfaces.
Both the poly skids or the Armour skids are vastly superior to the stock skids.


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## scotzz

I used my 24" SHO for the first time last weekend in 7 1/2" of wet snow. My drive has a slight incline, crown near EOD, radiused sides, curved sidewalk. The Auto-Turn with standard skids works very well for me. I will add though that drive, sidewalk and patio have very smooth, consistent surfaces.


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## Skullbone

Hi All,

I had the same trouble as most with AutoTurn, put Armorskids on it works great NYC area 14 inchs was no problem... 24SHO


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## PeterD

Not worried about scrape marks on the asphalt. It's 20 years old (at least), and, well, basically cracks held together by asphalt molecules in certain spots. Lots of tiny peaks and valleys that you can really see in ponding rainstorms. 

What regularly happens is that I get one storm that I clear as well as I can. I lay down heavy salt and leave it at that. By the next day about 85% of the leftover snow has melted leaving me with bare blacktop but 15% is now solid ice (often from tire tracks in the first storm) and will be there for the long-term. Next snowfall comes along now, and the new blower's bucket hits the slightly raised underlying ice and then goes haywire. Or a small crown in the paving, etc.

The old solid-axle machine just muscled right through it, no problem, but was impossible to easily turn at the end of the driveway. I could easily operate that machine with one hand. This one I have to hold onto for dear life with both hands and it still jerks me around like a ragdoll.


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## HillnGullyRider

If you have the muscle, nothing tracks straighter than a solid axle...for now I have the muscle and can turn the machine 180 (under power) without using the trigger, but you have to be committed. The solid axle does free up your hand to operate the chute and deflector. ( I could see where this setup is no good for tracked models though)


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## PeterD

I wish the SHO had a mechanism to lock the axle for long straight sections then engage the auto-turn when you're nearing the end. I, too, can muscle it on a gentle curve but not at the EOD.


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## HillnGullyRider

Well theoretically that was the purpose of the trigger, It's hands free locked Axle when you are blowing, then the trigger uses a cam to push the spur gear to the side and off of the splines of one wheel axle when you're set to do a 180. When the trigger is released a spring makes the spur gear slide back and catch the splines of both axles locking them solid. I guess people found the trigger too difficult to use or they never stayed in adjustment from lack of maintenance. I think if they had just used an automotive type synchronized ring, the spur gear system would be bulletproof.

The DLE was the same theory, yet opposite...Hands free differential drive while blowing and doing your 180. Then a trigger lock for nailing ice patches or EOD piles.


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## PeterD

I think the trigger lock is probably the way I should have gone. I don't think the SHO-type machines had it, though.


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## HillnGullyRider

You may be able to MacGyver one on there from the parts bin...Does your SHO have pin or clip style wheels?


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## PeterD

Johnny_W said:


> I think the only advantage of the poly skids over the Armour skids is that the poly skids won't leave scrape marks on the surface being cleared. I chose the poly skids because I have a pressed concrete front walk. I think the Armour skids would be better for gravel or other very uneven surfaces.
> Both the poly skids or the Armour skids are vastly superior to the stock skids.


I've read that the Armor skids ride up on compacted snow like skiis essentially. Is that true, and is there a way to prevent that kind of thing from happening?


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## AriensSnowman

PeterD said:


> I've read that the Armor skids ride up on compacted snow like skiis essentially. Is that true, and is there a way to prevent that kind of thing from happening?


Yes, they do ride up like a snow ski. Since I have gravel primarily and adjust them to the highest setting anyhow, doesn't bother me. To combat that you could add more weight to the front. They are wider and longer so they don't cut into the snow.


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## PeterD

So what's a viable alternative? I'm not about do heavily modify my snowblower to give me performance I expected out of the crate and that I got with an 8 YO machine that cost 1/3 what this one did. Sounds like I'm back to square one in this case. Is there no way to get this POS to run in a straight line?


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## Benny365

PeterD said:


> Is there no way to get this POS to run in a straight line?


the short answer, NO

I took my auto turn differential apart this afternoon to see if possibly there was a spring broke or something out of place. everything looked fine. I did notice that the main(only spring) seems like it could be a little heavier. My thinking is that every little bump or rut or ice pack the bucket hits, shifts the blower. activating the auto turn momentarily. and I mean for a split second. thats where you get the wandering from.

Heavier spring in the auto turn = straighter line but the drawback would be the auto turn may not engage in turns when the inside tire doesn't have adequate traction.

took this video with the GoPro, check it out!!

http://vid436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/benny365/GOPR0428 1.mp4


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## HillnGullyRider

PeterD said:


> So what's a viable alternative? I'm not about do heavily modify my snowblower to give me performance I expected out of the crate and that I got with an 8 YO machine that cost 1/3 what this one did. Sounds like I'm back to square one in this case. Is there no way to get this POS to run in a straight line?


Unfortunately yes, If you can not dial in the autoturn and get it to behave with tire pressure, alignment, and skid upgrades. Then there are only two options; sell it and buy a lower grade, spur gear machine, or one from a different manufacturer, or try and retrofit the older spur gear setup to your SHO.

This problem I suspect has to do with the fact that every driveway is different, and the autoturn can rear up some nasty manners if the drive is not to it's liking. I would try the suggested skid upgrades first.

There is a third option that I suggested earlier...But it would require 2 hand operation...Install go cart band brakes on the outer axles and tap levers to get it back in line. This would require custom modification of course, so it's out of the question for most new SB owners.


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## Johnny_W

PeterD said:


> So what's a viable alternative? I'm not about do heavily modify my snowblower to give me performance I expected out of the crate and that I got with an 8 YO machine that cost 1/3 what this one did. Sounds like I'm back to square one in this case. Is there no way to get this POS to run in a straight line?


I was in the same boat you are. Pissed that a $1000 machine didn't work as well as a $500 machine did. I couldn't believe I had to spend more money to make it usable. When Ariens customer service told me "Maybe you should return it and buy a sears" I was beside myself. 
All I can tell you is that in my case the poly skids did the trick. I assumed the issue was caused by the skids unevenly grabbing the ground and fooling the auto turn into thinking I was trying to turn.
I now use it on asphalt, concrete, gravel, and grass and have no issues. It doesn't fishtail or ride up on the snow. 
I have no experience with the Armour skids but they seem to have helped others here. 
I feel your pain.
Johnny_W


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## 19nywf39

I also put the poly non abrasive skids on my new and expensive 24 platinum SHO and now its much better. I can care less about scratching the driveway..I got these to improve handling. It went from me wrestling the thing to me just allowing it to float as it effortlessly turns on a dime. No idea why Ariens wouldn't just put the poly skids on from the factory. Now I can run the machine with my left hand and my right hand can operate the chute. Night and day with poly skids. Only issue I have is the paint around impeller housing already stripped all off by cinders at EOD. Giving the metal skids to the scrapper.


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## PeterD

What brand poly skids and where can they be purchased?


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## 19nywf39

PeterD said:


> What brand poly skids and where can they be purchased?


Got at Home Depot .. Ariens non abrasive skids model 72600300


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## Johnny_W

I didn't get the Ariens poly skids. I didn't want to give them more money for something they should have included from the start. I got the generic poly skids at Home Depot. I didn't care for the mounting system so I used a piece of strap iron on the outside of the skid to hold it in place. The original mounting system let one end of the skid slide up.


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## bkwudz

Brand new PRO 28 here, got it in October. At first, with no snow and just playing in the driveway, I was not impress with auto turn. I have older driveway that is not totally smooth, and it was just different than I was used to and I was not sure I was going to like it.

Well have using the Pro 28 to move 28+" of snow from our big storm, I have to say I was wrong. After a some practice I do not even notice auto turn. This blower is a beast, handled all that snow without a hitch. I did 3 or 4 different driveway over the last few days. Smooth, rough, inclined and slanted, and the thing went where I pointed it. I was within an 2" of some cars as I went along without a problem.

I don't know why some people have issues. It is different, and maybe it has a learning curve.


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## JRHAWK9

bkwudz said:


> Brand new PRO 28 here, got it in October. At first, with no snow and just playing in the driveway, I was not impress with auto turn. I have older driveway that is not totally smooth, and it was just different than I was used to and I was not sure I was going to like it.
> 
> Well have using the Pro 28 to move 28+" of snow from our big storm, I have to say I was wrong. After a some practice I do not even notice auto turn. This blower is a beast, handled all that snow without a hitch. I did 3 or 4 different driveway over the last few days. Smooth, rough, inclined and slanted, and the thing went where I pointed it. I was within an 2" of some cars as I went along without a problem.
> 
> I don't know why some people have issues. It is different, and maybe it has a learning curve.


I agree, I have a Pro 32 with the ATC...one model year before they released the Auto Turn. I swapped out the ATC for the Auto Turn and I don't have any issues either.


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## bkwudz

I also ran it over lawn, and a gravel driveway with no problems. This was also purchased and prepped at a reputable dealer for what its worth.


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## Johnny_W

Mine was also purchased and prepped at a reputable dealer. It bucked and fishtailed to the point where it was unusable. Before adding the poly skids I checked everything in the alignment video. It was setup perfectly. I tried it on flat asphalt, gravel, grass and stamped concrete. As sold it was terrible, shoveling would have been less work. 
I'm glad it worked for you and I'm sure it works as sold for many. I don't know what the variable is. I only know mine was unusable as sold. Judging by the threads I see here, I'm not the only one to have this experience. And, again, Ariens customer service was terrible, rude and unhelpful.


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## Ariens Company

Johnny_W said:


> Mine was also purchased and prepped at a reputable dealer. It bucked and fishtailed to the point where it was unusable. Before adding the poly skids I checked everything in the alignment video. It was setup perfectly. I tried it on flat asphalt, gravel, grass and stamped concrete. As sold it was terrible, shoveling would have been less work.
> I'm glad it worked for you and I'm sure it works as sold for many. I don't know what the variable is. I only know mine was unusable as sold. Judging by the threads I see here, I'm not the only one to have this experience. And, again, Ariens customer service was terrible, rude and unhelpful.


Johnny -

Sorry you are still having trouble with your snow blower. The auto-turn adjustments have helped a lot of people, but if it hasn't helped on your unit, we want to work directly with you to correct this.

Please send me a private message with your model and serial number as well as your contact information so I can get you connected directly with our Tech Service group.

I'm also sorry that you had trouble with our customer service as we take pride in providing support for you guys as we know how important that is, so please reach out so I can work with you.

Thanks.

Mary Lyn


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## Johnny_W

The issue was fixed with the poly skids. I'm all good. I'm posting now to try to help others and possibly Ariens. Rise the price by $10 or whatever it costs to make the poly skids and include a set with the snowblower. Raise the price by $3 and when 1 out of 3 people call to complain send them a set for free.
I reached out by calling your customer service department and commenting in the Ariens site sponsor area and the auto turn adjustment thread. After stating that I had checked everything I was told to bring it back to the dealer. They would have also checked everything and told me it's fine. I'm out time and money and so is the dealer but I would still have the same problem. I also called the dealer where I purchased my unit and had them speak to their regional sales rep. I won't go into the other suggestions I got from your customer service rep as I have posted them already. 
Again, the poly skids fixed the issue. Others that have had the same problem have fixed them with poly or Armour skids. Is it so hard for Ariens to admit that upgrading the skids or including a set of poly skids would put an end to these complaints and perhaps go a long way to repair Ariens reputation?


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## uberT

Johnny, thanks for sharing that...it certainly will help others.

My only concerns: Cost of the poly skids and how long before they need to be replaced


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## SnowGuy69

I finally was able to use my 2014 Ariens 28" 921036. Long Island was hit with 24 inches last Monday. I have not complaints with the auto turn. It wasn’t squirrelly when I climbed my steep driveway and turned very easily. I still have the skids that came with the unit and wanted to use it once before considering the armor skids. But right now the machine ran flawless and I am leaving it as is.


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## enigma-2

19nywf39 said:


> I also put the poly non abrasive skids on my new and expensive 24 platinum SHO and now its much better. I can care less about scratching the driveway..I got these to improve handling. It went from me wrestling the thing to me just allowing it to float as it effortlessly turns on a dime. No idea why Ariens wouldn't just put the poly skids on from the factory. Now I can run the machine with my left hand and my right hand can operate the chute. Night and day with poly skids. Only issue I have is the paint around impeller housing already stripped all off by cinders at EOD. Giving the metal skids to the scrapper.


I put on the Ariens poly skids last fall and also give a big thumbs up. As you said, night and day difference. 
Only negative I can come up with using them is they project out a little more than the steel skids and I have a slight amount of difficulty judging how close I can come to the front porch step when doing my walk. It's a minor concern, but only negative I can think of. All else is positive with these poly skids.


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## fishrman

Now you guys are starting to make me think I should have got Poly Skids instead of the Armour Skids but, honestly, I haven't put my Armour Skids back on my Platinum 24 since I got it back from the dealer. I do know it would be better with them than without but I got the machine back so late in the year that it was about time for the snow and I didn't get around to getting them put on before the snow and cold. Hate to mess with it in the cold!


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## ehaska17

I just got a 24" deluxe with the auto steer and had the same issue with the machine not wanting to go in a straight line. I went online and bought the MTD roller skids which are plastic skids with a plastic wheel. I took it out onto the dry driveway to test it out and it seemed to do the trick. The test will be in the snow of course. 

Another tip Ariens customer service said was to make sure I was not trying to push the machine, but to almost let it pull me. It actually makes sense to put some slight back pressure on it to maybe help decrease the sensitivity if it encounteres an imperfection in the driveway. As I thought about it, I think I was trying to push the machine through some spots. I bet with some practice I'll learn how to handle it better vs the old locked axle blowers.


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## 1894

I'm still learning also Ehaska 17 
Sometimes I would find my self fighting the machine , when I relaxed and let the machine do the work it seems to work better for me


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## j06096

it seems like winter is over and my end of season review of the auto turn feature is... i love it. a rough start, but with the adjustments from the video, and generic poly skids, i found snow blowing to be like a walk in the park, and we had quite a february here in ct. 
i have recommended this machine to all who would listen.


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## Blue Hill

Dang this thread has legs. . I started it in October 2013, while I was still trying to decide which machine would be the right one for me, never having owned one previously. There sure have been some hearty debates over that feature, but I for one am not sorry one bit that I made the decision that I did, with the help of the good folks on this forum.


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## Snowhawg

I think there's a lot more people that like the auto-turn than don't overall. See the thread about "those who like the auto-turn" for example. All the industry reviews I've read praise it, and I'm a big fan of it myself. I think adding a locker would be the final icing on the cake.


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## 1894

Snowhawg said:


> I think there's a lot more people that like the auto-turn than don't overall. See the thread about "those who like the auto-turn" for example. All the industry reviews I've read praise it, and I'm a big fan of it myself. I think adding a locker would be the final icing on the cake.


 Well said !! I'd like it to be simple , straightforward , and reliable ,, as well. 
IE cutting a snow bank back , move a lever and lock it in . When done move lever back and enjoy the auto-turn.


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## glm

GreatCanadian said:


> I have the 2013 Platinum 30 with ATC, and I find that I am always struggling to keep it running straight. It's a workout let me tell ya !! Now, I am in no way disputing Brian McSouthJersey's impressions of the ATC, because that's what you're going to find when reading about the ATC feature. It appears to work extremely well for some, while others like me don't like it. I personally prefer the deluxe model which uses the trigger. That being said, I am thinking that my driveway may have something to do with the function of the ATC. I have a lot of dips and such. When one side of the bucket dips, the cutting bar catches in the driveway, and the ATC frees up one wheel because it thinks I want to turn. I am ordering the bigger skid shoes from snowblowerskids.com to see if that helps improve the situation any. I have used it on my neighbors driveway a couple of times and it seems to work a bit better there. His driveway is a little more flat than mine.



Hi there. Yes it is a work out. I don't like the auto turn a bit. Soon as small piece of ice or harder snow is there the machine automatically follows to that side. So straightening it is constantly required. It zig zag all the time. I called ariens how to disable the auto turn but there is no way to do it. it's frustrating. Good machine otherwise. I have 2014 30" platinium 30" wide and I'm fairly good in shape. But after snowblowing my hands have enough of this constant straightening. Have also 10 HP. 30" Crafsman old machine. It's much easier to use it and goes straight.


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## Ron in PA

Somewhere buried in the middle of this long threat it was stated that Auto Turn cuts power to both wheels/tracks. Up until now, I was assuming that it cut power to only one wheel/track until the turn was completed.

So...essentially the user provides 100% of the power required to turn the machine. Seems like turning a tracked model would require some work?


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## magfer

Seems like the design is not "flawed" but sounds like if a driveway is sloped or lumpy the auto steer can be problematic due to simple physics. I do believe all dealers should setup machines properly free of charge and Ariens should be supplying both the steel and poly skids. It will be interesting to see if the redesign and change in balance does to rectify. Ariens should have a return policy for anyone that encounters this issue if it cannot be solved or at least have sales people query customers as to the nature of their driveway and recommend from there. I am sure Ariens lost many sales due to this issue.


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## HighlanderNH

*There should be a some type of RECALL*



magfer said:


> Seems like the design is not "flawed" but sounds like if a driveway is sloped or lumpy the auto-steer can be problematic due to simple physics. I do believe all dealers should setup machines properly free of charge and Ariens should be supplying both the steel and poly skids. It will be interesting to see if the redesign and change in balance does to rectify. Ariens should have a return policy for anyone that encounters this issue if it cannot be solved or at least have salespeople query customers as to the nature of their driveway and recommend from there. I am sure Ariens lost many sales due to this issue.


This is a MAJOR design flaw for all the people who do not have level and/or non-sloped surfaces. Ariens has known about it for some time now. I spoke directly to an Ariens Engineer (NOT a customer support person) for 20-25 minutes (I'm also an Engineer) over a year ago. Finally, after 3 years Ariens moved the axel position...with varying results. Without a doubt, there should be "some level" of Recall on these particular machines. Living in New Hampshire and clearing a sloped/sometimes lumpy 100'+ driveway is a real workout. The (Platinum 24 SHO bought at John Deere in NH) machine has a mind of it's own...yet on smooth level grass or pavement, it's laser straight. Once again there should be a Recall on these machines for all the people who get into a wrestling match almost every time they use their machine.

Update on the Auto-Turn situation:
Ariens first introduced Auto-Turn for the 2014 model year. For the first three model years there were issues with it's performance, then Ariens moved the axle position, which fixed the problem. From a snowblowerforum.com thread:

Generally it wasnt very good on the first-year models with Auto-Turn, which was 2014. People did have a lot of issues with it, with the machine being skittish and trying to turn when it shouldn't..it could be improved with different skids..then Ariens did move the axle to fix the problem.

Year 1 of Auto-Turn: 2014 model year, machines sold Autumn 2013 - original axle position.
Year 2 of Auto-Turn: 2015 model year, machines sold Autumn 2014 - original axle position.
Year 3 of Auto-Turn: 2016 model year, machines sold Autumn 2015 - original axle position.
Year 4 of Auto-Turn: 2017 model year, machines sold Autumn 2016 - new, corrected axle position.
Year 5 of Auto-Turn: 2018 model year, machines sold Autumn 2017 - new, corrected axle position.


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## Stroggle

Just bought 2017 ariens deluxe 28 sho, autoturn is a very bad thing, I agree with all issues about that mecanism. After two snow storm I decide to lock the differential. It took me 20 minutes to do and now I have a locked diff and no more zigzag and wrestling. Very easy to do, I just insert 4 tiny hard wood block between the gears so they stay engaged. It’s not permanent and easely reversible.


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## JerryR

Stroggle said:


> Just bought 2017 ariens deluxe 28 sho, autoturn is a very bad thing, I agree with all issues about that mecanism. After two snow storm I decide to lock the differential. It took me 20 minutes to do and now I have a locked diff and no more zigzag and wrestling. Very easy to do, I just insert 4 tiny hard wood block between the gears so they stay engaged. It’s not permanent and easely reversible.



Could you elaborate on what's involved(what need's to be taken apart) in getting to the point of inserting the wood blocks?
I'm getting tired of fighting to keep the blower going in a strait line.
TIA
JerryR


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## tonysak

I thought they always had a lock as an option, just flip the switch. 

What problems are you having with it? I don't understand why this can me such a love hate thing.


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## RedOctobyr

I don't have anything with Autoturn, but I've done some reading on it. I don't recall reading about a switch to lock out the Autoturn. Is that something they all have, which just doesn't get a lot of mention? 

The idea of making Autoturn less sensitive seems interesting. In another thread, I think, someone mentioned shimming the springs in it to increase the force they provide. The idea was that it would then require more twisting force on the machine before Autoturn would kick in. Maybe the function of it could be maintained, while requiring more input by the user, (or still being confused by a firmer "kick" from something in the snow).


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## Stroggle

by increasing the spring pressure, the differential may be damaged since both sides are made of plastic, the screws may not hold the extra pressure trying to push both ends away. on the other hand, by adding 4 small blocks of wood in the center of the differential, the 2 gears inside the differential will always remain engaged on the axles since they will have no more place to move. no additional stress is added to the mechanical, no damage will be done, the wooden blocks will not cause marks and can be removed easily.
to do so, remove both axles, no special tools are required, I used a 3/8 nutdriver and a wrench. once the axles are removed, the differential can be removed. then just open the differential with a torx driver (t25 I think) be careful not to lose parts. once opened it is easy to put the pieces of wood at 90 degrees from the others. I do not remember the thickness required, but once opened it's easy to figure out the thickness. we must be sure that everything can be closed without forcing and that the differential keeps the same thickness as the origin. when it's done, just go back up. There you go. I did it in about 30 minutes without really knowing where I was going, that was a test that turned out to be positive.


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## Stroggle

10 to 12 inchs of snow in the next 24 hours here in montreal, I will be able at that moment to tell you how it was.:grin:


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## Winter17

I guess auto-turn does make it less stable/more work when you want to make a nice straight line - I have noticed it's hard to control precisely when I plow right next to the car. On the other hand, it makes it easier to make a big turn when you want to maneuver. I have only had two snowthrowers, both from Ariens and both with auto-turn, so it's all I know. I do wish they had an easy way to engage/disengage the turning stability at the hand grips, so it would only be easy turning when you actually decide you want it to be.


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## JerryR

Stroggle said:


> by increasing the spring pressure, the differential may be damaged since both sides are made of plastic, the screws may not hold the extra pressure trying to push both ends away. on the other hand, by adding 4 small blocks of wood in the center of the differential, the 2 gears inside the differential will always remain engaged on the axles since they will have no more place to move. no additional stress is added to the mechanical, no damage will be done, the wooden blocks will not cause marks and can be removed easily.
> to do so, remove both axles, no special tools are required, I used a 3/8 nutdriver and a wrench. once the axles are removed, the differential can be removed. then just open the differential with a torx driver (t25 I think) be careful not to lose parts. once opened it is easy to put the pieces of wood at 90 degrees from the others. I do not remember the thickness required, but once opened it's easy to figure out the thickness. we must be sure that everything can be closed without forcing and that the differential keeps the same thickness as the origin. when it's done, just go back up. There you go. I did it in about 30 minutes without really knowing where I was going, that was a test that turned out to be positive.


THANK YOU for the response.
JerryR


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## Stroggle

This is where I add wood blocs


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## RedOctobyr

Thank you, that helps explain your modification. 

I got to play with an Autoturn machine, and a new Honda HSS triggers machine, at a dealer yesterday. Not running or anything. 

Autoturn was pretty cool when pushing / pivoting the machine in the showroom. With the drive engaged, I couldn't push the machine forward at all (locked wheels), but when I tried pivoting it, the wheels unlocked and it spun. 

But I have to say that I like the idea of Honda's triggers. Trying them in the showroom, they accomplish a similar end goal to Autoturn, allowing easy pivoting, which also getting 2-wheel traction when going straight. But because the triggers are manually activated, to be honest, I trust that more. It will *only* try to go straight until the operator specifies otherwise, even if the bucket catches on something. No worrying about whether you have the proper skids, to avoid an accidental "input" that will confuse Autoturn. 

I think Autoturn is very clever, and it sounds like it works very well for some people. But when a device has to "read your mind", and operate without a specific control input, that opens it up to unexpected behavior.

If there was a way to lock and unlock the differential on my older Ariens, on-the-fly, that would sound great to me. Kind of a Manual/Autoturn, if you will.


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## russ01915




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## russ01915




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## russ01915




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## russ01915

Everyone should read this article about Autoturn. It is very informative

https://movingsnow.com/2013/problems-ariens-auto-turn-snow-blowers/


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## russ01915

This differential is made by Hilliard. It is called the Auto-Lok.
https://youtu.be/FDxsEmNErJI?t=1


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## russ01915

Hi there...your machine's "easy steer" feature is an Auto-Lok differential from a company called Hilliard...they supply the industry with this differential unit...It is neat system when it is properly integrated into a product so it is effective an efficient...The problem that your having is that your Auto-Lok differential is mounted on a main sprocket and driven with a chain....same concept as a bike...The problem is that there is too much slack and not very much surface contact for the driving mechanisms to work properly. Ex: Ariens is using this technology on their Platinum and Professional series machine too...however, it is integrated and designed differently and better in my opinion. Here is the reason why...The main difference is that the ARIENS is using a spur gear around the Auto-Lok unit and a pinion to drive the gear for both wheels. The spur gear surface is about 1" wide and the pinion even more. Perhaps, 1.250" of surface for the pinion. I would have to open and measure to get exact size, but its about that. This surface contact increases the stability, rigidity and decreaes the vibration of the axle. John Deere doesn't have a spur gear around the Hillard Auto-Lok unit and neither a pinion. They are using a sprocket and chain to drive the axle. The sprocket is fitted to Auto-Lok and expected to give you that Easy Steer you looking for. Unfortunately, it's not giving you the performance you were expecting....Perhaps, it is also defective too...eventhough it is mounted on a sprocket and chain it should still be going on a straight line and in-sync...

If it is a real irritant for you...you might want to consider removing this Auto-Lok and installing a straight sproket...just remember if you do this, it will be harder to turn. This is how standard MTD snowblowers operate...


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## russ01915

This information is copied from another source:

The Pro 28,32 & 36 models machine from ARIENS have a full length auger shaft that goes from onside to another, eliminating the bracket support. The Automatic Traction Control on the ARIENS….it is also a really good feature that is offered. There is a little resistance when you turn, but almost unnoticeable. If you stick to a smaller machine like a 28” housing, it is very easy to manoeuvre than a 36” machine. Also, I happened to take a closer look at the ATC system on the ARIENS Professional series. It is a really cool design. It is a Hilliard Auto-Lok differential system. It has two female internal splines bore on each side of the gear/differential assembly for the axle shaft to enter. Then the Auto-Lok acts like tension device to release the resistance when you turn and yet still have traction on both wheels. John Deere 1330SE model also offers the same feature under a different marketing name called the "Easy Steer"...and it is also a Hilliard product. However, weaker on the design side by John Deere...let me explain. Now the way it is integrated into the snow machine's design is another issue all together. I have closely looked at both the ARIENS ST28DLE and JD 1130/1330SE Auto-Lok Differential from Hilliard. The main difference is that the ARIENS is using a spur gear around the Auto-Lok differential unit and a pinion to drive the axle for both wheels. The spur gear surface is a little over 1" wide and the pinion even more. Perhaps, 1.250" of surface for the pinion. I would have to open and measure to get exact size, but it’s about that. This surface contact increases the stability, rigidity and decrease the vibration of the axle. John Deere doesn't have a spur gear around the Hilliard Auto-Lok unit and neither a pinion. They are using a sprocket and chain system to drive the axle. The sprocket is fitted unto the Auto-Lok and expected to give you that Easy Steer you looking for. Unfortunately, it will not perform as expected. You can read the other threads from the other members on this topic. You will have this machine for a very long time an it worth spending an extra few bucks for a more reliable machine. ARIENS is made right here in North America and service parts readily available anywhere. Good Luck and regard


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## russ01915

This has been discussed:
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens-snowblowers/94562-ariens-2016-auto-turn-fix.html


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## russ01915

further research shows ariens using another transmission. General Transmission DI 300 here are some pictures


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## crdiokc

good thread. So can you tell by the model number which year your machine is. mine is 921046


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## bp0416

I have a new Deluxe 28 SHO and a paved driveway that's showing it's age with cracks and small heaves - new one in the spring. I adjusted the steel skids and did note that the skids do grab a bit here and there and turn the blower slightly left or right. However, after replacing the steel skids with the poly skids the blower tracks perfectly straight - no issues. A great investment for paved driveways only. Like these: https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...mi28pnkmom2qiv27xach2lswy6eaqybsabegkkhpd_bwe


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## sscotsman

crdiokc said:


> good thread. So can you tell by the model number which year your machine is. mine is 921046


Two model years so far, 2017 and 2018.

2017 model year is last winter, machines made in 2016 for winter 2016/2017.
2018 model year is the current model year, machines made in 2017 for winter 2017/2018.
Both will have the second, corrected, wheel position.

Scot


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## PlatSHO

*Auto-Turn Experience*

I have a brand new Platinum 24 SHO and found that the steel skids do not work, no matter how carefully I adjust everything (including tire pressure.) 

With the steel skids, the machine did not want to go straight and I had to use quite a bit of force to counteract it. Tried it on my driveway (asphalt in bad shape) and my neighbor's (smooth asphalt surface) and had the same experience.

I installed the black composite skids and the machine now tracks perfectly straight with no effort on my part.

The only concern I have is longevity of the composite skids. They are reversible, but I suspect the material will wear down pretty quickly, making this a costly solution if I have to keep replacing them. Might have to come up with my own modification at some point.


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## Jarrad Morgan

Stroggle said:


> This is where I add wood blocs


Are there any videos to show exactly how to do this yet? I bought mine new when this auto turn crap first came out on the Ariens platinum model and I have been fighting this. GD thing for 4-5 years. If I can lock these out it will make life easier when snowblowing.

I’ve never taken a dif apart so Im not sure what Im getting into


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## RusselBlueyes

Greetings, everyone. Did tons of research before deciding on which snow blower would be perform best for my needs. If you have slanted, uneven terrain auto turn may not be best for you. I was leaning towards the Ariens Pro machines until after reading real life reviews concerning issues with auto steer in certain situations. Toro uses auto steer but not in their Power Max HD 10 HP and up machines. I wanted the 32in bucket to cover a larger area when snow blowing. For my uneven terrain I opted to stay away from auto steer and go with a trigger steer machine. If I want to make an adjustment or turn, it will be on my demand not the machine. Auto steer is great for most, but not for everyone, depending on terrain and conditions. Like everything, there is pros and cons to evaluate. For the most part, auto turn works good for a majority of folks, but not for everyone. For those who move snow for a living, most use fixed or trigger steer machines. Once again, those who move snow for a living, they run into all kinds of adverse conditions. After months of research before making my purchase of a snow blower, I decided to go with a Toro Power Max HD 1232 with trigger steer and the quick stick shoot control. These big machines are not cheap, and the last thing I wanted was to be disappointed in the performance due to my less than perfect terrain. Most all the big brands blow snow extremely well, but when it comes to how they react in less than perfect conditions, that is when things can differ. In the world of owning snow blowers, it is much like Chevy verse Ford. Not everyone will give an honest review due to their bias towards their brand or color of the machine. No matter the color or brand, if the machine does not live up to your expectations due to your less than perfect conditions, then one might be a tad disappointed. You think?


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## Oneacer

Of all the zero turn machines I have had, including the trigger lever steer, the best hands free zero turn for me are the older Ariens ratchet wheel clutch systems, as well as the older JD 826's slip clutch differential ... there are others I like as well, but those are just 2 of my favorites.


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## harry398

I picked Up a Ariens Pro 28 this spring....926038 REALLY nice machine. 50 clams.

This unit has the Hilliard dif. it was a little hard to move around when I got it...

The Machine had a blown engine. The machine had 2 hrs use on it, owner never put oil in it. SO the diff had 2 hrs as well.

After I swapped an engine on it..I put a Honda gx390 on it.....I pulled apart that Hilliard 2 times. It was BONE dry inside..i mean that white grease was dried and no lube property at all inside.

I loaded it up with lucas red grease....its a really nice grease with EP moly all sorts of nice crap.....and let me tell you what.....that diff is NICE NOW. i cant wait to try it in the snow.

Its not the same as the newer design...its completely different. Its a smooother engagement......

point......if you own these machines and have a diff that seems its jerking around........take the diff out and lube it. My unit.....it was easy .....cake.

while I used to prefer a Locked axel....not any more. I prefer the diff.......some do need the plastic shoes to help glide over rough pavement...but thats part of the it.

I have the deluxe 28 sho..and that has the newer design...its more like a detroit locker diff. Once I got used to how to make it turn...i never want to play with locked axels anymore.

Hope this helps someone out there.


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