# Right side transmission out again on my 928



## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

I rebuilt the right side transmission with all new honda parts two years back and think the cross pin in the axle has sheared again. This machine has about 30 hours on it since the rebuild and i'm not sure why it's out again. i've been the only one to run it and i've been very smooth with the drive because it's always seemed like abrupt changes in direction would result in damage to that system. not wanting to repeat the procedure has made me go slow and smooth when changing directions. 

so, to my next question: is there anything wrong with welding the axle shaft to the cog to avoid this in the future? could the hydrostatic trans be damaged by doing this? it almost seems like the this axle has a shear pin on it since it breaks so easily.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Sled said:


> I rebuilt the right side transmission with all new honda parts two years back and think the cross pin in the axle has sheared again. This machine has about 30 hours on it since the rebuild and i'm not sure why it's out again. i've been the only one to run it and i've been very smooth with the drive because it's always seemed like abrupt changes in direction would result in damage to that system. not wanting to repeat the procedure has made me go slow and smooth when changing directions.
> 
> so, to my next question: is there anything wrong with welding the axle shaft to the cog to avoid this in the future? could the hydrostatic trans be damaged by doing this? it almost seems like the this axle has a shear pin on it since it breaks so easily.


have you already opened it up and determined that the pin broke?

I have opened a bunch of these to service and/or repair and one time did see that a previous owner did weld the gear to the axle. But I do not know if you can do this for long term success. 

I have had people report that a gearbox failed again usually shearing teeth on a gear because they left out a washer or plastic bushing. when you rebuilt your gearbox did you replace bearings and inspect or replace the bearings on the side plates? I usually do cause sometimes they have been seized on the axle.

curious to see what you find out.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

i have not opened it up yet. i replaced everything in there except one gear that looked new. all bearings and some washers were replaced if any wear was noticed.

the machine will roll without much resistance with the drive engaged and seems the same without being engaged. i can see the rear axle turning and hear the right side transmission trying to move the track but the front axle doesn't turn. it did bump forward once under its own power today but i think it just got lucky and bit on whatever is left of the pin.


this was the first time i used the machine this year. i made 5 passes in the short driveway and it stopped moving during manipulation of the Forward/Reverse lever.

i won't be able to open it up until at least this weekend. i'm really starting to lust for an ariens pro trak


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

I have noticed a few other weak spots in the gearbox beside the hardened steal pin. 



1) Sheared pin on the center stubby shaft that runs through the middle gear. 

2) Worn teeth on the gears, this is usually due to bearing failure and also due to the bush that holds the center stubby shaft in place getting worn, I have ditched the bush and have switched to installing a bearing in its place to rectify this issue. 

3) Another issue that I recently came upon was the worn splines on the two tiny gears inside the gearbox, these are the inside splines that go on the output shaft from the HST and the center stubby shaft. 



I had recently rebuilt a gearbox , used the machine for 5 minutes before the gearbox crapped out again; this was very disheartening lol. Fearing the worst I opened the box up and found the center gear splines had failed, I should have inspected it a bit better before putting the machine back together, installed a new gear and all was well again. 





This is another box I opened this week, I picked up this machine from a reseller in the off season, seems like he just booger welded the center shaft and put the machine back together. Even though it was working fine, I usually inspect and rebuild all the gearboxes on older machines that I service, hence is why this one was cleaned up, all the old worn parts were replaced along with bearings and put back together. 



You CAN weld the gear onto the shaft but that would be an extreme measure as replacing the worn parts, installing new bearings should take care of the box for at least 10~15 years.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

JnC said:


> I have noticed a few other weak spots in the gearbox beside the hardened steal pin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


your gearbox here looks like the typical box I open up. that dust seal is practically worthless and water enters there. the first half dozen gearboxes I serviced/repaired I did not replace the countershaft. although they are working fine I started just replacing it as routine after I saw a new one at the dealer because the spines look so much better than the old ones.

cheap insurance ( 15 bucks from boats ). god , if i had to redo one of these things which is inevitable , I would cry. 

I don't understand the part @JnC that you replace the center bushing with a bearing? how is that? do you have a picture? I always change this plastic bushing as it is almost always worn and damaged. another Honda engineering misfire.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Sled said:


> i have not opened it up yet. i replaced everything in there except one gear that looked new. all bearings and some washers were replaced if any wear was noticed.
> 
> the machine will roll without much resistance with the drive engaged and seems the same without being engaged. i can see the rear axle turning and hear the right side transmission trying to move the track but the front axle doesn't turn. it did bump forward once under its own power today but i think it just got lucky and bit on whatever is left of the pin.
> 
> ...




I highly doubt that pin broke again so fast but guess it is possible. i'd take it ALL the way apart and start from scratch. it may be something as simple as a misalignment because a washer is missing . I put them together outside the machine now like Jn C recommended , that is put it together with engine bed plate so I can manually test it before installing the whole assembly. That makes it easier for me to determine any play inside.

if you wanna give away this 928 I'll drive up from Tahoe:devil:


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## thefixer (Nov 19, 2017)

Check the roll pin that connect the lever at the bottom of the shift cable. This roll pin connects the lever to a shaft that comes out of the hydrostatic transmission to control your directional changes. Move your shift lever back and forth and see if the shaft inside the lever is moving. The roll pin can shear and look like it's still intact from the outside but it won't rotate the shaft, maybe catching occasionally.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

time to tear into this again. pretty sure i'll be welding the gear to the shaft this time.

here's the old rebuild thread for reference:

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/118033-axle-replacement.html


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Sled said:


> time to tear into this again. pretty sure i'll be welding the gear to the shaft this time.
> 
> here's the old rebuild thread for reference:
> 
> https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/118033-axle-replacement.html


so the pin was broke again? if it did there may be another serious problem somewhere else that can cause more problems down the road.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I'm sure you already checked the "usual suspects." Had a guy call me .had the whole right side gearbox torn apart and could not find the problem. I went over there and the first thing I checked was the hydro-static fluid. NONE in there. an axle seal pushed out enough for a weeping leak. showed him how to remedy that. he was heartbroken after all the work he did. but got it back and running after bleeding system and adding new hydro oil.

other things have seen.

both drive pins on drive wheels broke same time
bad f/r cable or out of adjustment
Engaged/released lever not working because keeper pin fell or broke off. make sure that shaft is moving in and out. 
pin or slot pin or roll pin fell out where f/r cable connects to assembly for hydro tranny as "the fixer" mentioned. make sure cable is moving that arm.

hope you get er going again soon.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

Well, I need some help on this. Before tearing down the machine I could see the output shaft on the hydro trans spinning when trying to engage the track. Upon inspection of the right side transmission, everything looks solid in there. All the gears, pins, keys etc look fine. When the hydrostatic trans is disengaged I can spin the axle and transfer power from both sides. I'm a bit lost on ideas here. Maybe something shifted in the right side tranny?


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

Not sure how to add photos from the phone but I have a few.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Sled said:


> Well, I need some help on this. Before tearing down the machine I could see the output shaft on the hydro trans spinning when trying to engage the track. Upon inspection of the right side transmission, everything looks solid in there. All the gears, pins, keys etc look fine. When the hydrostatic trans is disengaged I can spin the axle and transfer power from both sides. I'm a bit lost on ideas here. Maybe something shifted in the right side tranny?


well ya , somethings not right in gearbox if hydro trans shafts are moving and not the components in gearbox.

can not even venture a guess unless made a personal inspection. if the pin is intact then that gear should move , right? are the splines on the counter shaft wore out? you should be able to manually slowly move the tranny shaft and see what is going on in the box.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> well ya , somethings not right in gearbox if hydro trans shafts are moving and not the components in gearbox.
> 
> can not even venture a guess unless made a personal inspection. if the pin is intact then that gear should move , right? are the splines on the counter shaft wore out? you should be able to manually slowly move the tranny shaft and see what is going on in the box.


my leading theory is that the splines on the hydro trans output shaft are slightly stripped. they looked ok and turned by hand but under thrust i think it is spinning. i turned it both by hand, with a tool and under power. i don't want to get into the main transmission so i may just try to weld it up next weekend. i'll report back when it's done.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

Getting closer. I think I figured out what's going on. The small transfer cog between the hydrostatic transmission and front axle has stripped out a bit. I think under load it's not transferring power. Having trouble duplicating it with the transmission cover off but can definitely see damage. Wish I could post a pic. It's possible that I reassembled incorrectly and that caused the stripping. it did appear to line up correctly though and worked for a couple years.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

got it working again. it was the center "small" gear that transfers power between the drive shaft and the axle. for whatever reason it was stripped just enough that it would still work by hand but not when under power. when trying to diagnose i found it difficult to test with the right side tranny cover off. too much play in the system and a pita to engage the belt with the tensioner springs unattached from the frame. 

anyhow, the small gear and the thru shaft are welded up and functioning for now. the weld was dirty and i had to do some grinding but i'm optimistic it will hold. keys to remember are that the thru shaft needs to fit into the cover plate bushing on the front and the keyed larger gear on the back. that said, welding needs to be strategic and clean to allow those to fit.

thanks for the help again. 

till next time....


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Sled said:


> got it working again. it was the center "small" gear that transfers power between the drive shaft and the axle. for whatever reason it was stripped just enough that it would still work by hand but not when under power. when trying to diagnose i found it difficult to test with the right side tranny cover off. too much play in the system and a pita to engage the belt with the tensioner springs unattached from the frame.
> 
> anyhow, the small gear and the thru shaft are welded up and functioning for now. the weld was dirty and i had to do some grinding but i'm optimistic it will hold. keys to remember are that the thru shaft needs to fit into the cover plate bushing on the front and the keyed larger gear on the back. that said, welding needs to be strategic and clean to allow those to fit.
> 
> ...


wish you could have posted pic. hope this works for you. when I do these I just buy the new parts. learned the hard way ( like I learn everything on these )


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

since the forum changed a while back i can't even see a tab or option to post a pic. i read something about creating folders and such but it sounds like a pita. 

i agree that i should have waited and purchased more parts but i can't really afford more time to be down a machine during winter. maybe summer would be a good time to fix it right but i have hope that my welds will hold. the only concern is that they were dirty. 

eventually i'd like to sell a couple blowers and get a newer tracked model with great reliability. since i've grown accustomed to the hydrostatic transmission, i'll likely go that route again. ariens crossed my mind but if i can find a well taken care of honda then i'll go that way.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

btw, have they started making the handle bars on newer hondas for adults yet? my back would thank me for some higher grips.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Sled said:


> since the forum changed a while back i can't even see a tab or option to post a pic. i read something about creating folders and such but it sounds like a pita.


 Adding pictures is easy: when you're creating a new post, there's an area right below it that you can drag photos into (it says "Drag and Drop File Upload" and "Drag files here to attach!" 

Farther down, there's also a button that says "Manage Attachments" that allows you to browse your device for photo files to attach.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

Sled said:


> btw, have they started making the handle bars on newer hondas for adults yet? my back would thank me for some higher grips.



The 2011+ (i think) models had bars that were a couple of inches higher than the older models.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

I'll have to try browser. The drag and drop doesn't show on chrome or my phone.


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## Sled (Sep 10, 2017)

so far the 928 is doing well. it throws the snow better than my 1332 ariens. i'll update if the cheap fix breaks.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Sled said:


> so far the 928 is doing well. it throws the snow better than my 1332 ariens. i'll update if the cheap fix breaks.


that would be heartbreaking . I know how much work you put into this.


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## chrisbloom (Oct 12, 2020)

Just curious, what grease would a guy use when reassembling? Thinking of taking gearbox apart on my wheeled 828 and repacking it.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

They usually use a Bentonite type grease. The Bentonite is very durable, long lasting and holds up to any water contamination far better than any other type of grease, including synthetic greases.
Tecumseh used to make Bentonite grease for gear boxes that was available at a good lawn and garden service center.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

chrisbloom said:


> Just curious, what grease would a guy use when reassembling? Thinking of taking gearbox apart on my wheeled 828 and repacking it.


I'd just install a grease zerk on gearbox to pumpin grease instead of taking it apart unless it needs something. donyboy73 has an excellent video on you tube called what every honda owner should do to their snowblower or sumting like that. i put grease zerks on all my Honda's.


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