# siezed engines



## crazzywolfie

i was wondering if seized engines on these things are worth trying to get going again instead of just re powering them? the oil lever is at the bottom of the dipstick but there is no holes in the block so i don't know if it was run like this and it seized up or not. i picked it up at the curb for free. the thing seems in good shape other than the seized engine


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## Kiss4aFrog

143 754132 ?? I'm guessing this is the number. If it's just a 5 horse it depends on the thickness of your wallet and your location.

Here in the states I'd say try pouring some penetrating oil in the cylinder and let it sit overnight and if it frees up go from there.

Down here you can get a 6.5 Predator for a hundred bucks so messing with a stuck engine much isn't really worth it unless it's the challenge you love or your broke and have to try and save it.

Not sure how easy or cheap you can find an engine so not sure how much time it's worth to you.

Number one, what does the rest of the machine look like and have you found anything else worn out or broken that would make a re-power not worth while ??


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## 43128

get some mmo, pull off the recoil, and try to turn the engine over by the starter nut after letting it sit overnight. might be a thrown rod


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## crazzywolfie

143 754132 SER 5319B. ya it is just a 5HP engine. i was really not sure whether it was worth putting money into or not. the thing overall looks pretty good but does have a couple small rust spots. not sure if there is anything broken. i was possibly thinking about picking up an engine on sale not sure what i want to do with it yet. really don't need the snowblower but if i can get it working cheap enough i know i could always find a good home for it. i did put some ATF in the cylinder since i know it is suppose to be pretty thin and shouldn't hurt anything.


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## db9938

Two things, is this a two (separate) pulley, or single?

If it's a single, then a princess auto/ harbor freight 6.5 hp motor could be a cheap alternative. And the chassis on that machine looks to be in good(solid) shape. It's not rust free and perfect, but there does not appear to be anything that would prevent it from working as designed. 

Personally, I might go as far as taking the crank case cover off, just to verify the integrity of the internals. I'd also consider using some PB'laster to loosen things up.


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## scrappy

I have seen "siezed engines" It was a chunk of carbon broke loose on top of the piston. always good to diagnose it yourself with a tear down.


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## crazzywolfie

thanks. i will check to see if there is 2 separate pulleys or just 1.

i don't think it is carbon. when i had the plug out from what i could see it didn't look like there was much if any carbon in it. i still might end up tearing it apart eventually anyway. it never hurts to tear a free engine apart.


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## bwdbrn1

Not to mention the fun of doing a re-build and keeping the machine original.


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## crazzywolfie

i am not too picky on whether the machine stays original or not. even if i can get the engine running i might still sell it to replace it with a newer style engine. i know even the cheap 6.5hp OHV engine that i got on sale for my arien works pretty good once you get the bugs sorted out.


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## Jackmels

Fill Crankcase with oil. Pull spark plug out and generously spray PB Blaster into spark plug hole in the direction of the piston. Put a pipe wrench on the crankshaft and work it back and forth until it frees up. Pull recoil a few times to spin engine without spark plug reinserted. Give carb a shot of starting fluid, and it should fire if it has spark. That is, if the Rod didn't break.


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## crazzywolfie

i got some good and bad news about the snow blower. bad news is it has a pulley ran by the cam shaft on top of the pulley on the crank. good news is the engine at least now turns over. still a bit stiff but should get better. piston is still connected and going up and down.


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## db9938

Well, all things considered, that's promising.


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## crazzywolfie

ya. i topped up the oil and was pulling it over while talking with the neighbor and it is feeling better.


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## YSHSfan

If it comes down to where you have to do the 6.5HP predator engine repower, I know there will be an issue for the drive since the blower will have reversed drive system using a single shaft engine (meaning your forward gears will drive it backwards and viceversa). If you have the transmission system with the shift lever on the back, it should have a very simple fix for the drive to operate properly.


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## RAYAR

ATF is great for un-seizing engines. I don't know about the newer fluids, but the older ones worked great for that.


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## crazzywolfie

thanks for sharing the video hsblowersfan. i thought there was a simple fix for some of the blowers if you do a HF engine swap but never really had to look at it. might be hope for this thing. may end up selling this engine and buying myself a new one if i get it running.

ya. i have read that ATF is pretty thin so it makes a great oil for un-seizing an engine.


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## crazzywolfie

its alive. i got another question about the fuel line. at this point in time i can only keep the thing running with the choke on. the float bowl seems to look pretty clean and i noticed the fuel line seems to hang pretty low should it be this low? i was thinking about shortening it and hoping it might solve the issue i am having.


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## Kiss4aFrog

Sounds like the carb needs a through cleaning. Most engines that fuel line should go behind the air shroud. It's likely auto parts store fuel line and that runs just a tad bigger than the OEM stuff. To replace fuel line I've always had to pull the shroud off and someone might have been lazy and just bypassed it.

Good time to put a filter in line.

Video showing marking the throttle and governor linkage and where the fuel line should run.


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## crazzywolfie

ya i thought it was suppose to go behind the shroud. i just wasn't sure if it hanging as low as it was if it should prevent fuel from flowing to the carb as good as it should. i was going to see about cleaning the carb and fuel tank. it looked like there was a few flakes of crud in the tank.


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## YSHSfan

IMHO I do not think that the routing of the fuel hose is causing the issue, it could perhaps be partially clogged internally, I would replaced it and see how it is, but I agree with Kiss4afrog the carb needs to be cleaned and the fuel tank as well.

I had 2 Ariens 724 blowers, both had upgraded engines: one with an HMSK80 8HP Tecumseh (perhaps a bit tired or not running to its full potential) and the other with a 6.5HP predator engine, I installed a slightly larger crank pulley on both of them and I much more prefered the performance of the Harbor Freight engine. 
If you only have a 5HP now I will test the performance of it, and if you are not too happy, I will repower it with a predator (Ithink you will be happy then). But this may have to wait until next snow season perhaps.


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## crazzywolfie

well i will see about cleaning it out tomorrow since it is no longer sitting in the back of my truck. 

i am not really sure what i am going to do with it. it is snow blower number 5 on my property. i need to start doing something with all the machines. all run but i would only trust the 1 to actually move snow since it has a aftermarket engine. if i get this newest machine running good i might do the impeller mod and find it a good home. i know a few people that could use a snow blower in the winter that would probably never be able to afford one.


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## Shryp

I think that fuel line will cause running issues. Especially if the tank is not completely full. Even properly routed fuel lines will run poorly with that setup and less than 1/4 tank. As a simple test you could unbolt the tank and hold it up higher so the fuel line never drops below the carb. Just be sure you unbolt the tank and not the bolts holding the head down.


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## crazzywolfie

well i should not have to really worry about it too much now. i got the line routed though where it is suppose to be. it was actually pretty easy. still having some fuel system issues tho. it will now at least run full throttle with the choke off. the issue i am having is if you try to throttles down more than a 1/8" with out massaging the primer it will stall. it don't make sense.

i did give it a bath and it looks pretty good. also works pretty good.


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## db9938

That sounds like the low idle jets. Those are the nearly microscopic holes that are, I believe, at the 3 o'clock position. You may be able to use a very fine wire, off of a wire wheel, to clear them, but to ensure that they are free you may have to be more invasive.


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## crazzywolfie

maybe i didn't clean the carb as good as i should have. after having it apart today it actually looked clean but maybe the hole could have been plugged. i though i probably should have looked at the jet better when i had it apart but just wanted to get it moving.


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## db9938

There maybe two or three holes, and they are very easy to miss.


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## crazzywolfie

if i missed them it wasn't because i didn't see them. it was more so me rushing because i thought we were suppose to get rain in the afternoon and i had to get a few things done.


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## crazzywolfie

well i got to try cleaning the carb out again yesterday and things were still fairly clean inside. i made sure all holes were clean and it still won't low idle. it will try to run lower but anything lower than full throttle and it surges a lot and if you throttle down enough it will just stall.


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## crazzywolfie

would low compression stop it from wanting to low idle? i tried doing a compression check on it and only got a reading of about 85psi. i know that is pretty low but not 100% sure what effects it would have on a 1 cylinder engine.


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## Shryp

Low compression would affect the running of the engine, but most of these small engines have a compression release on the exhaust valve. It holds the valve open slightly until the engine gets up to speed to make it easier to start. It makes compression readings fairly unreliable.


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## crazzywolfie

i wasn't sure if this engine would have a compression release or not. i saw a video on youtube that said if you pull the engine over slowly you should get a accurate reading but not sure. i was going to try testing it again but this time i was also going to try doing a wet compression test also.


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## HCBPH

db9938 said:


> There maybe two or three holes, and they are very easy to miss.


A way to check if they are open is take a piece of fine wire (like phone wire) strip the insulation off about 1/4". Look down the throat of the carb, two are under a welch plug and use a pair a needlenose pliars and grab the wire and push it through the holes. You can also remove the welch plug, drill a hole through it (careful as there's not alot of space under them) and use something like an awl to pry them out. To put in new welch plugs, they should be in a carb rebuild kit, support the carb and position the plug. I take a socket slightly smaller than the plug and use a hammer and tap it in. Doesn't take very much effort so again, go easy.

This is assuming your carb has both the high speed and low speed jets. I'm not sure on the newer sealed ones, I usually replace those with an older style one if I happen to get one without the 2 jets.


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## GustoGuy

HCBPH said:


> A way to check if they are open is take a piece of fine wire (like phone wire) strip the insulation off about 1/4". Look down the throat of the carb, two are under a welch plug and use a pair a needlenose pliars and grab the wire and push it through the holes. You can also remove the welch plug, drill a hole through it (careful as there's not alot of space under them) and use something like an awl to pry them out. To put in new welch plugs, they should be in a carb rebuild kit, support the carb and position the plug. I take a socket slightly smaller than the plug and use a hammer and tap it in. Doesn't take very much effort so again, go easy.
> 
> This is assuming your carb has both the high speed and low speed jets. I'm not sure on the newer sealed ones, I usually replace those with an older style one if I happen to get one without the 2 jets.



The biggest problem I had with my old Tecumseh 5hp was that it never seemed to stay in tune. I say if it is running alright with the existing emissions carburetor why replace with an adjustable carburetor. I only use my snowblower at one elevation and an emissions carburetor if it is jetted right will work just fine. Adjustable carburetors can be a bit more finicky to get dialed in correctly than a fixed jet carburetor which is working well.


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## crazzywolfie

HCBPH said:


> A way to check if they are open is take a piece of fine wire (like phone wire) strip the insulation off about 1/4". Look down the throat of the carb, two are under a welch plug and use a pair a needlenose pliars and grab the wire and push it through the holes. You can also remove the welch plug, drill a hole through it (careful as there's not alot of space under them) and use something like an awl to pry them out. To put in new welch plugs, they should be in a carb rebuild kit, support the carb and position the plug. I take a socket slightly smaller than the plug and use a hammer and tap it in. Doesn't take very much effort so again, go easy.
> 
> This is assuming your carb has both the high speed and low speed jets. I'm not sure on the newer sealed ones, I usually replace those with an older style one if I happen to get one without the 2 jets.


i have been using copper phone wire to clean the holes and there has not made a difference unless there is one i am missing. i don't think this engine has compression release which if that is the case compression is low for some reason. i tried doing another compression test on it and was only getting 80psi this time and when i did a wet test it jumped up to 100psi which is a decent loss. i am thinking the rings on the engine might be shot or maybe the valves are not sealing 100%. a new engine is definitely starting to look a lot more tempting at this point. i tried doing a compression test on the other craftsman show blower that i had sitting there and it got 120psi and i think it might even have the compression release.


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## db9938

I would suspect valves over rings at this point, at least I would rule them out at this point. Chances are they have never been adjusted, or the faces have become worn.


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## crazzywolfie

i was reading it could possibly be the valves. i was just not sure how far into the engine i want to start getting. hard to say whether it would be worth it or not but i guess i could try pulling the cover on the side and checking the valves. just need to pick up some feeler gauges.


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## crazzywolfie

well i don't think the valves are that far out of adjustment. the exhaust valve seems pretty tight at .006" and the intake is a bit larger at 0.011"


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## db9938

I understand, it was a thought. And the next step would require removing the shroud and head, to check the faces and seats. You might be able to get away with taking the breather cover "thingy" back off, slide the retainers off and see how smoothly they rotate. It's not the ideal way of doing it, but it might give you an idea of how well they contact.


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## crazzywolfie

i am not really sure i want to be pulling the head. might be better off to just sell the engine as is to someone else for parts or a fixer upper. would probably be a lot easier to sell if it at least runs or maybe i will just run it as is till it blows. it runs pretty good at full throttle. just won't low idle which is not really too big of a deal. i rarely even remember to lower the idle when i am using my snow blower


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## db9938

That's true, on both accounts. It's not like a weed eater, where you are alternating at both ends of the rpm range. I'd say, why put any more into it if you are going to flip it as is, if that is your intentions. Especially when you consider what you have into it, an oil change and time.


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## crazzywolfie

i don't know if i would look at it as a flip. i just don't plan on getting into the small engine repair business and probably by the time i am done buying all the tools/parts i would need to rebuild the engine it would definitely cost way more than i could get an aftermarket engine for. better off to sell it to someone who knows what their doing and let them repair it. it is a dual output engine so it would definitely be worth repairing to someone but just not me.


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## db9938

crazzywolfie said:


> i don't know if i would look at it as a flip. i just don't plan on getting into the small engine repair business and probably by the time i am done buying all the tools/parts i would need to rebuild the engine it would definitely cost way more than i could get an aftermarket engine for. better off to sell it to someone who knows what their doing and let them repair it. it is a dual output engine so it would definitely be worth repairing to someone but just not me.


Gotcha, those engines are sought after by those trying to resurrect them. I've brought a few back to life, and I think that you would be surprised at the limited tools that I work with in my garage. I use a kids suction cup dart to grind valves, all it takes is a little creativity to accomplish the same task. 

I agree, tools can be expensive and finding a solution around those costs are part of the goal.


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## crazzywolfie

i am hoping it is sought after enough that is may pretty much pay for a brand new engine. i got a 6.5OHV engine on my ariens and it throws the snow pretty good once i got it tuned in. it even threw snow 25 feet without the impeller mod. 

at this point in time i really need to clean up my tool/stuff before i buy more tools. i got too much stuff and not enough room plus it sounds like i will be bringing a 4th vehicle into my driveways soon so the snow blowers will have to move to make some room.


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## crazzywolfie

so it that time of year. starting to get machines ready for winter and attempting to take another swing at making this run decent. i gave the carb another good cleaning today which might be why it will idle a bit lower but it still surges real bad. now since i don't know exactly what my issue is i was wondering if the carb on a a HM80 would have the same carb as a this engine. both have one of those adjustable jets on the bottom of the carb. i am just not sure what is left to try other than just run it as is.


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