# Possible no spark HS621



## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

working on a family blower, an older HS621. couldn't get it started, so drained the fuel tank and carb bowl, put in fresh treated fuel, swapped out the plug, still nothing. pulled the plug and wire, rested it against a socket, pulled recoil, seemingly no spark. any bullseye suggestions, honda experts?


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm not a Honda expert by any means, but try bypassing the ignition key to rule out that you are not dealing with a grounded out spark. Otherwise, check for rust buildup on the flywheel magnet, and it could also just be a straight up dead coil.


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm assuming you checked the jet, fuel line and that the bowl is filling?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

CalgaryPT said:


> I'm assuming you checked the jet, fuel line and that the bowl is filling?


I have not dropped the bowl or pulled the carb yet. I drained the tank and bowl. I was considering going further in that direction, but decided to check spark. Plug seemed to have some fuel on it. Plug did not appear to have spark.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

I see you have electric start, so it should be easy to crank it over and hold the plug against frame somewhere, to confirm spark or no spark, shield with a towel or something to avoid any light..... Great machine, I have 3 of them in my name......report back


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> I see you have electric start, so it should be easy to crank it over and hold the plug against frame somewhere, to confirm spark or no spark, shield with a towel or something to avoid any light..... Great machine, I have 3 of them in my name......report back


that's an idea. someday i'll pick up a plug tester. i wanted to try easy solutions before tearing the shroud off and going deeper.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Remove the plug and try a little stater fluid or gas in the cylinder replace the plug and give it a shot. The spark is sometimes hard to see. Worth a try


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

rwh963 said:


> someday i'll pick up a plug tester.


OR, try another known good spark plug. also try disconnecting the kill wire from the coil and test for spark to eliminate a shorted wire or bad key switch.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Grunt said:


> OR, try another known good spark plug. also try disconnecting the kill wire from the coil and test for spark to eliminate a shorted wire or bad key switch.


yes, i did try a known good plug. accessing all that means pulling a bunch of stuff off. was hoping to avoid that....


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

just tried both recoil and electric start with plug touching bare axe handle, saw no spark.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> just tried both recoil and electric start with plug touching bare axe handle, saw no spark.


Yes, but did you do this:


Grunt said:


> also try disconnecting the kill wire from the coil


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

tabora said:


> Yes, but did you do this:


do i need to pull off the covers? if yes, then no, i can't get to it right now. if not, let me know.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> do i need to pull off the covers? if yes, then no, i can't get to it right now. if not, let me know.


You may be able to get to it through the spark plug door? It's this connection that goes to the Run/Stop switch.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Does the plug have to be grounded or any metal


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

Tony-chicago said:


> Does the plug have to be grounded or any metal


Yes engine ground

rwh963, if you remove the black metal perforated shroud around the exhaust pipe exit, with is just a few screws, and then remove the screws holding the black plastic cover that incorporates the gas cap and on off switch, no need to lift the cover off. Lift it up a couple inches and you should see the wire running to the on off switch, disconnect if you can, OR follow the same switch wire to where it lays on top of the motor and disconnect the bullet connector, you can see in Tabora's spark plug picture.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> Yes engine ground
> 
> rwh963, if you remove the black metal perforated shroud around the exhaust pipe exit, with is just a few screws, and then remove the screws holding the black plastic cover that incorporates the gas cap and on off switch, no need to lift the cover off. Lift it up a couple inches and you should see the wire running to the on off switch, disconnect if you can, OR follow the same switch wire to where it lays on top of the motor and disconnect the bullet connector, you can see in Tabora's spark plug picture.


i believe i see the wire looking through the muffler cover. tried reaching in, but too deep. will have to remove some bolts to access. most likely easiest to remove the on/off wire. and to understand, if this wire is removed and still no start, then bad coil?


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

HS621 is a fantastic machine. Don't make them like that anymore. Also noticed the Philbricks Sales & Service label on the chute. Purchased my HS621 from them back in 1996. Great folks. Think they closed their store in E. Hampton, NH a while ago. Very rare for a Honda ignition coil to go bad. My guess is either the ground wire connecting terminal broke or the ignition switch is bad. Start by checking the integrity of the ignition wire and make sure it's not broken, cracked or chaffed and firmly grounded. Next check continuity with the ignition switch using a volt meter. With switch in the on position, you should have continuity across both ignition wire terminals. If not, bypass the ignition switch by jumping both ignition wires with terminals with a short piece of wire and see if you're getting spark. If not, the ignition coil is likely your culprit for no spark.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

Was this blower used, this last winter?? OR has it sat for a while and now you are trying to start it. As freezn says, a failed Honda coil is pretty rare in my books too...


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

rwh963 said:


> just tried both recoil and electric start with plug touching bare axe handle, saw no spark.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> Was this blower used, this last winter?? OR has it sat for a while and now you are trying to start it. As freezn says, a failed Honda coil is pretty rare in my books too...


was not used last winter. belongs to my elderly parents. i recall getting it started, with difficulty, last summer (or the summer before?). always shop serviced/tuned up.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

rwh963 said:


> just tried both recoil and electric start with plug touching bare axe handle, saw no spark.


rwh, my old eyes just caught your part about the axe head (thanks for the prompting), the plug has to be grounded to the motor frame, as you have electric and the plug is removed from the machine, you should be able to hold the plug touching the area around the hole it came out of, and press the electric start button and look for spark, better to see if you are not in bright sunshine.

If the machine has sat for awhile things could be gummed up a bit in the carb, however you should try the easy things first, ie spark, gas...... I believe you mentioned earlier the plug appeared wet, so you must have had fuel available at one point....


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Unplug your ignition switch and see if the spark is then present?
Make sure the lighting is at a low level so that you can easily see the spark when you are testing.
If it starts, plug the start switch in while its running. If it stops the motor then the start switch is your culprit.
If you still have no spark with the ignition switch unplugged, you have a shorted wiring, or failed coil problem.
Simply ignore the oil switch section of this diagram if your unit is not equipped with an oil sensor.











Spark plug testing method.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

This snow thrower was built with a GX engine without low oil shutdown.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> rwh, my old eyes just caught your part about the axe head (thanks for the prompting), the plug has to be grounded to the motor frame, as you have electric and the plug is removed from the machine, you should be able to hold the plug touching the area around the hole it came out of, and press the electric start button and look for spark, better to see if you are not in bright sunshine.
> 
> If the machine has sat for awhile things could be gummed up a bit in the carb, however you should try the easy things first, ie spark, gas...... I believe you mentioned earlier the plug appeared wet, so you must have had fuel available at one point....


i believe i have tested other plugs by holding it near a ratchet? necessary to be on the frame? maybe removing covers help, but the plug hole is deep set. don't think it is a good candidate location.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

For under 10 dollars you can buy a spark plug tester at HF that would help put the spark no spark issue to rest.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

ok, with the sparkplug connected to the coil wire you should be able to reach across to the frame of the muffler which should be good enough for your grounding spot unless it is very rusty


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

contender said:


> This snow thrower was built with a GX engine without low oil shutdown.


Thanks, I fixed my post.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Had a few free minutes, so removed the rear cover. On/off switch looks fine from below. Ground is on tight. The other line runs in between things. Do I disconnect it at the bulge joint, or remove an access cover and get to its end point?


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Unplug the connector and do the spark test. If you get a spark put the plug and spark plug wire back on the motor and see if it starts.
Leave your stop, run switch disconnected.
It would be better to disconnect the plug as it is safer to plug it back together if the motor starts without getting a shock.
Remember if you do this and it starts you will have to reconnect the wires to stop it.
If the motor runs with your run stop switch disconnected your start stop switch is faulty.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

contender said:


> rwh, my old eyes just caught your part about the axe head (thanks for the prompting), the plug has to be grounded to the motor frame, as you have electric and the plug is removed from the machine, you should be able to hold the plug touching the area around the hole it came out of, and press the electric start button and look for spark, better to see if you are not in bright sunshine.
> 
> If the machine has sat for awhile things could be gummed up a bit in the carb, however you should try the easy things first, ie spark, gas...... I believe you mentioned earlier the plug appeared wet, so you must have had fuel available at one point....


Exactly why I mentioned it. Thank you for picking up and running in for a touchdown. Good info.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, just tried this. unplugged the on/off switch wire. started up in two pulls! shut it down by turning off the fuel supply. thx for getting me this far! so, the switch is faulty? so, order the switch w/wire?


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Sounds like you got it. Faulty Switch


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Cstanis said:


> Sounds like you got it. Faulty Switch


appears that i have to do deeper surgery though to pull out the whole harness? switch is soldered to the wires.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Great to hear you got it up and running.
Unless there is a short in the switch wiring you have a bad run/stop


rwh963 said:


> appears that i have to do deeper surgery though to pull out the whole harness? switch is soldered to the wires.


unsolder the wires from the switch


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

actually, the second wire is just the ground, easy access. i thought it ran deeper in. honda switch part (Honda 36100-747-0230) is about $30.


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

If you're ordering the switch online, Boats.net has very competitive pricing on Honda parts: OEM Honda switch 36100-747-0230 is 14.95 plus shipping: Honda 36100-747-023 - SWITCH, ENGINE STOP | Boats.net


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i'll call my local dealer first for pricing. funny i can't find it on amazon or almost anything on ebay.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> i'll call my local dealer first for pricing. funny i can't find it on amazon or almost anything on ebay.


That's because it was a very specific application Honda part number. You can basically use ANY On/Off switch, even a fancy one like this latching On/Off pushbutton (In will be Off):









Or, check out these options:








honda engine stop switch for sale | eBay


Get the best deals for honda engine stop switch at eBay.com. We have a great online selection at the lowest prices with Fast & Free shipping on many items!



www.ebay.com


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i saw some other honda switches, but am uncertain they would fit exactly. the original went 20 years, i guess $20-$30 for OE part isn't too much of a sacrifice. and my problem is resolved: priceless!


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

rwh963 said:


> i saw some other honda switches, but am uncertain they would fit exactly. the original went 20 years, i guess $20-$30 for OE part isn't too much of a sacrifice. and my problem is resolved: priceless!


 it's for your parents and nothing is too good for them


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Cstanis said:


> it's for your parents and nothing is too good for them


i wouldn't go that far! but i can go $20-$30.... they don't even use the machine anymore (a little too old to be out in snow/ice conditions).


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Freezn said:


> If you're ordering the switch online, Boats.net has very competitive pricing on Honda parts: OEM Honda switch 36100-747-0230 is 14.95 plus shipping: Honda 36100-747-023 - SWITCH, ENGINE STOP | Boats.net


looked it up, $10 shipping. only a couple $ less than dealer. amazon has everything but this part!


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Ordered from the local dealer. All things being equal, I’ll keep my money local.


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Nice. Always a plus when you can keep your business with the local guy. Good choice going with the OEM switch. If nothing else, it helps preserve the value of that machine if you ever decide to sell it down the road. Glad everything worked out and you can service the machine now when it's 80 degrees outside. Trouble shooting and hunting for parts during a snow event is the worst!


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## Zedo (Sep 3, 2018)

rwh963 said:


> working on a family blower, an older HS621. couldn't get it started, so drained the fuel tank and carb bowl, put in fresh treated fuel, swapped out the plug, still nothing. pulled the plug and wire, rested it against a socket, pulled recoil, seemingly no spark. any bullseye suggestions, honda experts?


I see some are mentioning fuel , you dont need fuel to get a spark. No spark means you have a bad coil, a bad/ broken connection or heavy rust built up on the flywheel. Even with an empty gas tank and carb you should get a spark.


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## chipg1956 (Mar 28, 2021)

Honda ignitions are fairly weak, actually most small engines are fairly weak. Often times you just can't see it. Look at in the dark. They are also more prone to trouble then other brands, so replacing it may be needed.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

chipg1956 said:


> Honda ignitions are fairly weak...They are also more prone to trouble then other brands


You actually believe this?


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## chipg1956 (Mar 28, 2021)

tabora said:


> You actually believe this?


Why did you edit, rather then quote me completly? By weak I clearly meant the spark is hard to see, unless it is my old eyes. My experience is such, but more does not necessarily mean overly troublesome. I probably work on 20X more Briggs engines then Honda but change 3 or 4 times as many Honda ignitions (not including those chewed up by mice).This is mainly on mowers, there are not many Honda Snowblowers in my area.....(the local dealer, now out of business, was a very bad dealer). It probably is not related at all, but now that the China Honda Clones are getting older I am also seeing ignition failure on them. Kohler had some in yard tractor engines that were quite bad, and expensive to fix. Regardless of which may be marginally better or worse, small engine ignitions are pretty reliable.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

chipg1956 said:


> Why did you edit, rather then quote me completly?


To be clear what I was specifically asking about.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, snowblower brainiacs! 1.5 weeks later and $30 poorer, installed the honda switch. nothing, zilch. no ignition. detached it, started right up. sanded the ground metal, reattached, nothing. detached, tried the electric, started up. so, seems like the old switch may be good. where is the problem?


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

All the switch does is provide a path to ground for the ignition voltage when the switch is in the off position which stops the motor. 
Is your new switch turned to the off or stop position, or is it in the run position?
If your switch is in the run position then check the back side of the switch plug for damage. See if plugging in the male end into this connector creates a path to ground because of damaged insulation on the plug.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i don't think i can get down there without taking all of the plastic shrouding off. might be able to finger feel it. switch was on the "on" position. there are three positions: SW, Off, On. i even tried all three positions, nothing. if the electric start got it going, does that mean that the coil is good? i was really disappointed when it did not fire up.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

The electric start ,just does the cranking for you, only one coil, so its not the coil.......As noted earlier with the mesh cover around the muffler and the screws removed holding the gas cap, you can left the cover a couple inches or tilt it to one side or the other to work under it.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> The electric start ,just does the cranking for you, only one coil, so its not the coil.......As noted earlier with the mesh cover around the muffler and the screws removed holding the gas cap, you can left the cover a couple inches or tilt it to one side or the other to work under it.


yes, i earlier removed that back cover. thats how i got to the switch ends. not sure i can access beyond that point though without further dismantling. i'll check. thought i had this wrapped up, but i guess not. if i have to get deeper in and pull a lot apart, i may just keep it an electric start.

where's orangeputah when you need him!


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

You shouldn't have to go in any deeper if the motor runs with the Stop/Run switch disconnected. That means the wiring is OK from the coil to the bullet connector. The problem has to be from the bullet connector to the switch if reconnecting the switch is what is grounding your spark. 
One other possibility is the new switch could be bad. Check the new switch to make sure it is open or infinite resistance when the switch is in the run position.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

rwh963 said:


> yes, i earlier removed that back cover. thats how i got to the switch ends. not sure i can access beyond that point though without further dismantling. i'll check. thought i had this wrapped up, but i guess not. if i have to get deeper in and pull a lot apart, i may just keep it an electric start.
> 
> where's orangeputah when you need him!


So, when you say "i may just keep it an electric start" Are you suggesting it works ok with your new switch?? if you use electric start?? but does not fire up when you use the recoil?? In post #51 Toon's picture shows the bullet connector, with your new switch installed, pull that bullet connector apart and try both manual and electric start and report back.....


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i'll double check, but i believe it worked with electric start without the switch connected, but not with it connected.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, braintrust. test results:

switch connected, turned on, neither electric or manual start the engine. i can smell fuel, probably no spark (if you look back, i mentioned see no spark).

switch disconnected, starts up first pull/electric start. no hesitation. runs perfect. unfortunately, have to shut it down by shutting off fuel supply.

examined the second half of the positive wire, felt down, saw/felt nothing unusual. can't see the back end.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

It seems as though we are missing something, so a few questions.
1) Does your machine have an on engine stop switch like the one in this diagram?









2) What location is the electric starter controlled from? At the run stop switch on the control panel or at a combination switch like this one?










Is it possible that the motor has been changed out from the original one that came with the blower?
Could you post a few pictures? Thanks


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Pics


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

Toon, all his pics match the HS621, so some how the switch is getting to ground when it is connected.


RWH963, Your coil, engine is working as designed. You just have a rub thru somewhere between the bullet connector and the coil. Do you have an ohm meter so you can measure your switchs, to prove they are not both shorted out??


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Toon said:


> It seems as though we are missing something, so a few questions.
> 1) Does your machine have an on engine stop switch like the one in this diagram?
> View attachment 197038
> 
> ...


Original owner


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

Toon, if you look at rwh963's #60 post, right most picure, you will see the 110volt starter box on the handle bars, the starter button is on that box, does not connect to the on off switch. The connector you have posted, i have never seen any thing like that on any of the HS621s I have worked on or on the 3 that I own.....


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> Toon, all his pics match the HS621, so some how the switch is getting to ground when it is connected.
> 
> 
> RWH963, Your coil, engine is working as designed. You just have a rub thru somewhere between the bullet connector and the coil. Do you have an ohm meter so you can measure your switchs, to prove they are not both shorted out??


I can get to that, but the new one was sealed from supplier. OE Honda.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

double post


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

contender said:


> Toon, all his pics match the HS621, so some how the switch is getting to ground when it is connected.
> 
> 
> RWH963, Your coil, engine is working as designed. You just have a rub thru somewhere between the bullet connector and the coil. Do you have an ohm meter so you can measure your switchs, to prove they are not both shorted out??


Contender, I don't think the rub through is between the bullet connector and the coil as that portion of the wire is still present when the switch is disconnected and the motor does run in this condition.
The wire between the switch and ground is always connected to ground so we can ignore that wire.
The problem to me seems it has to be on the wire between the bullet connector and the switch as that is what kills the motor when it is connected. The only other possibility is that the new switch is shorted and doesn't open in the run position.
It's always hard to troubleshoot a problem from a distance, at least for me, but logically this makes sense.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i have disconnected both the switch bullet plug and detached the ground.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

rwh963 said:


> i have disconnected both the switch bullet plug and detached the ground.


So with both old and new switch , when they are connected , it should run on recoil start or electric start , but you wont be able to turn it off.

I would still like to have both switches checked with an ohm meter......

As Toon says, its difficult to call the shots from a distance.....As i have posted in the past, it always is difficult to ask the proper questions and then to audit the answers without being there in person.....


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> So with both old and new switch , when they are connected , it should run on recoil start or electric start , but you wont be able to turn it off.
> 
> I would still like to have both switches checked with an ohm meter......
> 
> As Toon says, its difficult to call the shots from a distance.....As i have posted in the past, it always is difficult to ask the proper questions and then to audit the answers without being there in person.....


i think you mean, with both old and new switch, if it is connected, i cannot start it with either recoil or electric. with it disconnected, i can do both. i have to shut off the fuel to eventually stop it.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

rwh963 said:


> i think you mean, with both old and new switch, if it is connected, i cannot start it with either recoil or electric. with it disconnected, i can do both. i have to shut off the fuel to eventually stop it.


RWH963
Have you tried to run the machine with the OFF/RUN switch connected and in the OFF position in case the new switch is backwards to the original one?


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

So in post 69, with your , I am suggesting with things disconnected as you said in post 67, it should fire up as expected with both switches connected but the ground removed.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

yes. it has 


Toon said:


> RWH963
> Have you tried to run the machine with the OFF/RUN switch connected and in the OFF position in case the new switch is backwards to the original one?


three settings: SW, Off, On. tried starting with all three.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> So in post 69, with your , I am suggesting with things disconnected as you said in post 67, it should fire up as expected with both switches connected but the ground removed.


i have NOT tried starting it with the positive connected and the ground disconnected.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i just disconnected the ground, it started up.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

All I offer is to meter the switches, if you have no meter, try using a battery and a 12 volt bulb and use a jumper to connect from the bulb case to the - (ground) side of the battery and then use the leads connected to the switch as your positive lead to the other side of the light bulb and see if the bulb lights, if it does change the rotation of the switch, all positions of the switch should not light the bulb.......


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, let's try to understand this result: re-attached the new switch. engine started with the switch set to the marked OFF position on the dash! engine goes off at ON and SW (I forget what that means). one thing i noticed, and don't have an answer to, is someone put tape or something on each position. my guess is once there was written ON were OFF should be, OFF where ON should be, etc. how could this be? why would the OFF position be ON??


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

This is on your new Honda switch ? was it in a sealed bag with Honda writing??

So with the new switch connected and the ground connected to the frame the machine starts and turns off by the key?? just the positions are mislabeled??

Is the most clockwise position momentary (moves back to middle position when you let go)??


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

yes. i'm not even going to bother putting the old one back to test it. this all started last year when i couldn't start their blower. of course i put the switch to ON (when apparently i should have put it to OFF!). something has been reversed. my father probably put that tape on and wrote on/off in reverse as a reminder. nobody bothered to tell me!

see post #60 for picture.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

So you are currently using your original switch?? and everything works as it should except for the labels are wrong??


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

No, I have the new one in. I don’t believe the original labeling is incorrect. I don’t know what has occurred.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

is the 3rd position on the new switch momentary??


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

So the original wires were reversed in some part or a "fix" was done on a more straight-forward logical way, but that is opposed to the way it should be.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

so the switch you currently are using , which also is the new one, is labeled properly??

You good to go then.....


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Nope


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

contender said:


> so the switch you currently are using , which also is the new one, is labeled properly??
> 
> You good to go then.....


the switch itself is not labeled. the labeling is on the dashboard, as seen in the pic.


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## contender (Jan 18, 2018)

Great, you got it going.....

Here is a pic in the middle of my on board 12 volt electric start install last winter with a lot of assistance from Tabora.


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