# Suzuki 2 stroke Toro



## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

Back in 1989 , bought my first house , needed a lawn mower. 5/8 acre, would take about 70-75 minutes to mow. Because of the run time, I was steered towards Toro 2 stroke mower. Suzuki made the motor . One feature that impressed me , I was told it had a thin cast, iron ( steel alloy ? ) piston. As the piston material was the same as the cylinder liner material , the expansion was near identical , minimizing wear. That mower is still running . I am a big R-Tek fan , but would love to find a Suzuki 2 stroke blower some day . Any opinions on R-Tek vs Suzuki ?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

The Suzuki engine was made by Suburu for Suzuki.
The piston is aluminum, not steel, steel would be too heavy especially for all the reciprocal motion of a piston, you would break the rod and pin, plus the piston would self destruct and not cool itself due to holding too much heat. Aluminum sheds the heat much better and quicker. A steel piston would overheat itself in a short amount of time and expand too much, even in a steel cylinder because the cylinder would cool itself a lot more quicker and better than the piston could.
Most of the engines had just the aluminum cylinder wall, then some started using the steel liner/ or cast iron to help the cylinder last longer from piston ring wear, then eventually as the price dropped, they started "Plating" the cylinders with a "Nikasil" coating which was lighter in weight than the steel or iron liner.
The pistons were originally coated with a light film of "Teflon" on them and the cylinder was aluminum with a "Nikasil" plating on them for reduced friction and longer lasting wear.
The Nikasil is made with nickel, it is a very thin coating applied/electro-plated to the cylinder wall that can't be bored and you don't want to try and hone it. You can have the cylinders re-plated/coated but you have to send the engine out with the piston to specialty shops to have that done.
2 stroke racing motorcycle engines have been using that technology now since back in the later '70's early '80's.
Both the Suzuki/Suburu 4 stroke and 2 stroke engines were good in their day. Suburu stopped making small engines a few years ago unfortunately.
The little 2 stroke motors were great for being smaller, lighter, powerful for the size and weight, and could be used at angles that a 4 stroke would suffer lubrication loss due to their design.
Now days there are a lot of small "Micro engines" that are 4 stroke and have different lubrication systems in them that use a "mist" rather than a "splash" to spread the oil around in them.
There are many different manufacturers that make them now. Briggs and Stratton used to make them.
Toro's were known for using the Tecumseh 2 stroke motors for years/decades and some of them held up pretty well as long as they were maintained well and people remembered to mix the oil into the gas and at the correct ratio.
But the only problem was as every down stroke was a power stroke, the engine was susceptible to twice as much wear and tear and the piston to wall contact area was less due to the cylinder ports, it made them wear piston and rings much faster, and also the loads on the crankshaft bearings and crank seals, so they usually only had half the life expectancy of a 4 stroke motor.
Your average 4 stroke motor was rated at 500 engine hours, were the 2 stroke motors were rated at 200-250 engine hours of life expectancy before requiring major repair.
Because of emission requirements in the USA now most 2 strokes were outlawed, although you see some around, but in limited amounts and foreign manufactured, then add to that, Suburu no longer produces small engines anymore, the maker of the Suzuki engines, you probably won't find another Suzuki powered 2 stroke small engine anymore in a new machine.
You might find a used machine with one in it, but who knows what shape it would be in.


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

ST1100A said:


> The Suzuki engine was made by Suburu for Suzuki.
> The piston is aluminum, not steel, steel would be too heavy especially for all the reciprocal motion of a piston, you would break the rod and pin, plus the piston would self destruct and not cool itself due to holding too much heat. Aluminum sheds the heat much better and quicker. A steel piston would overheat itself in a short amount of time and expand too much, even in a steel cylinder because the cylinder would cool itself a lot more quicker and better than the piston could.
> Most of the engines had just the aluminum cylinder wall, then some started using the steel liner/ or cast iron to help the cylinder last longer from piston ring wear, then eventually as the price dropped, they started "Plating" the cylinders with a "Nikasil" coating which was lighter in weight than the steel or iron liner.
> The pistons were originally coated with a light film of "Teflon" on them and the cylinder was aluminum with a "Nikasil" plating on them for reduced friction and longer lasting wear.
> ...


Thanks for your reply- learned some things . I find it especially interesting that Subaru built the Suzuki small engines ( I`m a big Subaru fan ) . Not to be argumentative, but my Suzuki engined Toro has far out lasted 200-250 hours. Bought in 1989, used through 2011 ( when my neighbor threw out a Husqvarna tractor ) , it then became a trim mower. It used to take me 60-70 minutes to do the lawn, the tractor takes about 45 minutes. The Toro , obviously, does not have an hour meter, but the tractor does. In the nine seasons I have had the tractor, it has accumulated 176 hours, or a little less than 19 hours per year . The Toro must have 500 or more hours in that 23 season period. It went through 2 transmissions, but as a trim mower, did not need self propulsion . I am a big 2 stroke fan ( owned a 3 cyl , 2 stroke Saab, various 2 stroke road motorcycles, and 2 stroke lawn and snow machines ) , so I am admittedly 2 cycle defensive . Thanks again for your response. Regards, Kelly


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

ST1100A said:


> The Suzuki engine was made by Suburu for Suzuki.
> The piston is aluminum, not steel, steel would be too heavy especially for all the reciprocal motion of a piston, you would break the rod and pin, plus the piston would self destruct and not cool itself due to holding too much heat. Aluminum sheds the heat much better and quicker. A steel piston would overheat itself in a short amount of time and expand too much, even in a steel cylinder because the cylinder would cool itself a lot more quicker and better than the piston could.
> Most of the engines had just the aluminum cylinder wall, then some started using the steel liner/ or cast iron to help the cylinder last longer from piston ring wear, then eventually as the price dropped, they started "Plating" the cylinders with a "Nikasil" coating which was lighter in weight than the steel or iron liner.
> The pistons were originally coated with a light film of "Teflon" on them and the cylinder was aluminum with a "Nikasil" plating on them for reduced friction and longer lasting wear.
> ...


Very good lesson 
So after Suzuki. 
Subaru. Fuji heavy industry, robin and Wisconsin were connected at different times???
I don’t know the story though
Just remember??? from working on different engines 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Spring1898 (Jan 1, 2013)

I can only compare the 2 from a usage standpoint as I have both.
If you want the Suzuki, that is in the CCR 2000, 3000.
The R-tek is in the CCR 2450, 3650 and the Power Clear 221.
As to what the exact difference is between the engines in each line I couldn't say as I believe they are identical parts-wise.

Comparing the 2 engines, the CCR 3650/R-Tek is the slightly more powerful of the two. It seems to rev higher and doesn't drop down as low which translates into further snow throw. Note that I haven't put the tachometer to either one this is just by ear and feel. The suzuki is the smoother of the two as the vibes are a little less probably due to the RPM.

CCR 3650, at least the older one's, seem to have a problem with vibrating things off more than the Suzuki. More than one that I encountered was surging very high because they vibrated the muffler loose, eventually destroying the gasket, and thus running too lean.

Either is perfectly adequate for the job they do. 
So get both


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i've had a ccr 2000 and still have a ccr 3000, ccr 2450 and ccr 3650. as for which throws snow farther it is a wash between the 2450 and 3650 ( my opinion ). as for vibration the 2000 and 3000 were / are smoother ( my opinion ). i came opinion is based on using them all on the same day at different neighbors houses several time with different snow amounts one winter


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

I also have a CCR-2000 with the Suzuki engine and the CCR-3650. Both are dependable and hard working machines!


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