# Disengage Auger - Loud Rattling



## KMac

Hi All - I just purchased a new cub cadet snow blower. despite being "just another MTD" as I see in some of the posts here i really like it so far - it threw a foot of wet snow like a champ this weekend without breaking a sweat.

However, after / during first use I noticed that when I disengaged the auger, I would hear a rather violent rattling for a few seconds. I have a gravel drive, and I thought that initially there was maybe a stray piece of gravel in the impeller. not the case, in fact, the machine hardly picked any up at all with skids all the way down.

Anyways, noise didn't happen every time, and would vary in intensity. sounded almost like a pebble ricocheting in a bucket. made this same noise with some tests in the garage with no snow in the blades at all. I haven't opened up the auger belt cover yet to investigate, but i am thinking that could be the culprit. Would appreciate any insight that the pro's have to share. 

auger engages smoothly and promptly. same with the drive. it is only when the auger is DIS-engaged that i hear the noise.


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## Kiss4aFrog

What is it's model number 

Pull the belt cover and inspect the tensioner pulleys and arms.
If you don't see anything you might want to try and take some photos of that area from a couple angles and post them.


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## KMac

I opened the belt cover today and think I found the culprit. I'll try to post pictures soon. However, there is a piece of bent metal, like a bent thin steel rod, acting as a belt keeper for the drive shaft pulley. Or maybe this is the belt brake? Anyways...

There was wear on the outside of the auger belt, and i suspect that when the tension pulley is released the keeper arm is grabbing the outside of the belt and creating the noise as the pulley slows, but is pressed against it by centripidal force since is was just disengaged. This would explain the short duration of the sound.

I'll fiddle with the tension arm adjustment to see if I can get it tighter to a point that stops the noise and still allows disengagement. If not, what do you suppose the harm of meddling with bending around the belt keeper thing? It is bolted on at two points but has a free end, which I think creates the rattling noise.

Used the machine again today, throws like an Olympic shot putter still!


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## Snowcone

KMac said:


> I opened the belt cover today and think I found the culprit. I'll try to post pictures soon. However, there is a piece of bent metal, like a bent thin steel rod, acting as a belt keeper for the drive shaft pulley. Or maybe this is the belt brake? Anyways...
> 
> There was wear on the outside of the auger belt, and i suspect that when the tension pulley is released the keeper arm is grabbing the outside of the belt and creating the noise as the pulley slows, but is pressed against it by centripidal force since is was just disengaged. This would explain the short duration of the sound.
> 
> I'll fiddle with the tension arm adjustment to see if I can get it tighter to a point that stops the noise and still allows disengagement. If not, what do you suppose the harm of meddling with bending around the belt keeper thing? It is bolted on at two points but has a free end, which I think creates the rattling noise.
> 
> Used the machine again today, throws like an Olympic shot putter still!


Not that you should or shouldn't bend things on your snowblower to fix something but I've bent many a part on many a thing to fix it. And I'm sure many others have as well.


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## BOSMECH

If it is new I would take it back and get another one. It really should not be making any funny noises.


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## Kiss4aFrog

Before anyone says bend it or mod it . . . it's new, why not just take it in and have it repaired under warranty properly ??
If you're talking about the "belt finger" that little metal rod that keeps a belt from coming off a pulley when the tension is taken off the belt I don't see how it could be making enough noise to be noticed above the engines noise ??

Pictures will really help.


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## KMac

Yes, it is the belt finger where I think the noise originates from. I will post pictures tonight. 

If it is actually just the belt finger - I assume this is no reason to go through a full return of the machine? (i.e. no major mechanical issue).

I'm mostly worried about premature belt wear and decreased impeller force as the belt wears. Agree that this is something that should not happen on a new unit. Hopefully Home Depot agrees,=.


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## darcy32171

It might seem "Little" to you and that "returning the machine" seems not warranted, but....if later down the road you have issues and bring it in for warranty work and the shop sees that you muttled with things....this could intentionally VOID warranty in some cases.


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## KMac

just to check before i try doing this - would anyone here advise against running the machine and engaging / disengaging the auger while the belt cover is OFF? 

I would of course be standing by the levers and away from flying belts - but I think this will help me to visually confirm if the source of noise is / isn't the belt finger.


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## Kiss4aFrog

The main reason for the cover is to keep snow out of there so the belt(s) doesn't slip. The secondary reason is for protection if the belt snaps. The belts are new so you shouldn't have to worry as much about a belt coming up at you but keep it in mind.
I would fire it up and run it to try and see if I can find the problem.

The belt finger is only to keep the belt from coming off the pully, idler, tensioner ... whatever it's mounted near when the belt is loose. What the belt is operating the finger is just hanging in air and shouldn't have any contact with the belt so there isn't any issue with premature belt wear or less power being transmitted to the wheels or impeller. It's just to keep the belt form coming off when it's disengaged since that's when the belt is loose on the pulleys and not rotating. If you pulled it off and tossed it in the trash the only problem you'd have is once in a while or more the pulley would fall out of place, off it's pulley. So you do want it but you don't have to worry about it causing wear unless it's adjusted way too close to the belt when the belt is TIGHT or engaged. With the belt loose it's not uncommon for it to be touching the belt but that's when it's disengaged or loose and not spinning. There usually is an adjustment spec in an owners manual on how much gap should be there when the belt is tight.

I'm sorry to be difficult but I'm still thinking it sounds more like a tensioner that's loose or bad and when you let go of the handle (disengage) and that tensioner goes from spinning like crazy against the belt to spinning in air it's more likely to be the cause. It could make a pretty noticeable rattling as it slows down from a loose mount or bad bearing.
BUT . . . I'm here sitting on my butt guessing and you can actually see and hear it.


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## KMac

Thanks Kiss4, serial number and photos to come tonight. 

I'll play with the tensioner adjustment first, and if that doesn't do it, will try to investigate the belt finger while the cover is off.

I agree that a too-loose tensioner pulley could make a similar noise - but likely not bearings, since there would likely be noise during engagement / use of auger. 

Whatever it is, its contingent to the belt immediately coming off tension and still spinning, and is based on its speed (i.e. noise stops when the belt stops) - so something is rubbing or bouncing off of something else, somewhere 

thanks all for the replies and support. this forum is pretty great.


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## Kiss4aFrog

You'd think if it's a bearing it would be noisy all the time but when you have tension or pressure on a bearing it can sound normal and then start to rattle once the tension is released.
Similar to a cars wheel bearing only making a noise when turning in one direction. Once they really get bad it will howl all the time but in the beginning they can be elusive.

When it's not running you want to reach in there and feel for play in anything you can get your hand on.


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## KMac

Alright everyone, i think we've narrowed it down. here are a few pics of the belt case. Also model # 31ah55ta756 serial# 1k123b30303. is this a typical Cub Cadet issue??

here are a couple shots of the belt finger I was mentioning. I did run it with the cover off today, and DARN TOOTIN', the belt finger seem to be getting "grabbed" by the spinning belt when tension is removed. And, because of the design (sitting across the belt with one free end) it is "slapping" back against the belt after being "grabbed and pulled" this is happening so fast and violently enough that it is audible above the engine noise. you can see all the belt dust that has been scraped off by the belt finger. As the belt wears in, this noise has only gotten worse - since the belt is more stretched.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BydzLLe9jkN2azNSbjdPY2laVFZaZ3RlREo2RVBCMHBZZGc0/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BydzLLe9jkN2U3FjeEg0ZTRndU92aFVsSXktQl9EZnF2bFdJ/edit?usp=sharing

here are a few shots of the inside of the belt cover, showing where the "flying finger" (ha!) was rubbing and wearing out the plastic case. Amazing.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BydzLLe9jkN2Y2QzZ3BBUElXNGdDU1JqX1ZOQXdfbHQwN1cw/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BydzLLe9jkN2Z0JOSjl5dG9ORVFpMWV5SlRCa1Y4X1FjMy1J/edit?usp=sharing

I am going to see if HD will let me swap the machine out. I messed with the cable tension and the tensioner pulley placement all to no avail. I like the machine so figure there is no reason to fully return. I just feel like a new machine should come with 0 issues. I could easily just bend the finger up and likely take car of the issues, but, why should I have do - eh?

Curious to hear everyone's feedback and thoughts. anyone have similarly designed belt fingers (or even seen them) produce a similar problem? seems pretty basic to me, and if this is a normal design, am surprised everyone doesn't get this sort of noise.


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## Blue Hill

The belt fingers are all basically the same, but your problem doesn't apply to all blowers, nor to all Cub Cadets. I think I'd be taking her back to the Depot.


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## Kiss4aFrog

It's brand new and yes it should be perfect but from the photos it looks like the flying finger was bent or moved or just installed wrong. I would think when it's installed properly it would be kind of symmetric to both sides of the pulley and horizontal. IMHO If spaced properly you wouldn't get any noise as others don't and it wouldn't be shedding a bit of belt in the process each time it's released. 

You said: "I_* really like it so far - it threw a foot of wet snow like a champ this weekend without breaking a sweat."

*_It's such an easy fix I'd just fix it. Compared to having to cart that one back and a new one home again, then who knows if the next one will be any better. Maybe something else in a different place ......

Up to you 


Anyone with pictures of their "finger" ???


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## KMac

Kiss4., agree on it being a pain to cart back.

How would you best reccomend fixing it? Bend the metal? Unscrew and reinstall upside down to get more clearance? Put idler pulley in forward hole, and max out tension on the cable? Not sure best approach here. Also don't want to have to start getting belts flying off.

Still feels wrong to even have to undertake any of this IMHO. Silly problem though for a new machine.


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## Kiss4aFrog

Maybe start a new thread in cub cadet specific and ask for a photo of someones set up. 

Is there anything in your manual about what kind of clearance it should have on either side or where it's "designed" to sit ??

I'd try to raise it up a bit but I'm not sure where it's catching now. If it's the loose side then raising it a bit should be easy and will still be able to be close enough to capture the belt on the drive pulley when dis-engaged. Might also want to check to see if the tensioner pulley or arm can be adjusted in a bit to take a bit more slack out of the belt to control it from flopping around right after dis-engauging it.

OR ... take it off and go to Home depot with the tools necessary to pull the cover (just in case) and ask if you can take a look. Call ahead to make sure they have your model on the floor. Get a manager if you have to and tell him your problem and ask to pull the cover to see that machines finger position.

If yours looks bent compared to it's maybe you can just swap or at least you'll see how it should look and you can tweak yours right there and then go home and hopefully not be bothered by it for a few years at least 
Worst they can say is no and it's in their interest to make you happy and not have you angry with then and also have to take back a now used machine they'd have to fix and sell at a discount. Be nice and use leverage


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## KMac

So, the plot thickens. 

After going to HD and showing them the issue, baffling them and their calling cub cadet... There was an issue with my model, generally. Seems that some machines were assembled with incorrect auger belts (mine had a too large tractor belt hence the hitting on finger), and incorrect size pulleys.

HD agreed to repair under warranty for free, and, that they would also refund my purchase if I decided to purchase another blower, anywhere. Very gracious.

So all in all, a good outcome. But, seems that this could be a recurring issue (for anyone else listening in ) with improper assembly of my model blower. Seems to be the case only for this model ... The 26 inch 3 stage machine.


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## Kiss4aFrog

Since it's not just your machine I posted a warning about your model under the Cub Cadet section so hopefully anyone else coming along will with this problem will get a quicker answer to their "why is it doing this"


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## J_ph

> So all in all, a good outcome. But, seems that this could be a recurring issue (for anyone else listening in ) with improper assembly of my model blower. Seems to be the case only for this model ... The 26 inch 3 stage machine.


Did this occur immediately or did it take a little while to happen? Also, any idea what the right or wrong belt is?

I purchased one from Depot, but haven't had any snow yet to try it out. Without the auger engaged it seems fine. Anyway for me to check whether there is a problem before the next snow?

thanks


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## Kiss4aFrog

Take off the belt cover and rotate the belt until you can read the numbers off it and check those against the number in the manual.


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## J_ph

> Take off the belt cover and rotate the belt until you can read the numbers off it and check those against the number in the manual.


belt #65? was it confirmed that the belt was the wrong part number before HD fixed the problem?

thanks again,


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## J_ph

Here's the belt in mine - PN 754-04195A
When I went to the CubCadet parts site and put in that number it comes up with the PN in the parts manual 954-04195A, same size etc.


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## J_ph

I just took a look at Kmac's photo of the belt, it appears to be the same belt that I have. Only the backend of the PN is visible but I'd


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## J_ph

confirmed that the 2 part numbers ( 754-04195A / 954-04195A ) are the same:



> the first digit of the part number prefix changes to indicate the item is packaged for sale to consumers. There are no structural differences between these parts.


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## J_ph

Any chance that HD applied a belt dressing to Kmac's snowthrower when they assembled it? 

I finally had a chance this morning to give my CC 3x a workout, and I had no problems with the same belt that is installed in Kmac's. Smooth transitions engaging/disengaging the auger. I'd wonder if there is another reason for the belt to be gripping.


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## Kiss4aFrog

I wouldn't think so, belt dressing would be an extra cost to HD and there would be no reason/advantage to spray a brand new belt.


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## J_ph

> I wouldn't think so


you are right, I was just guessing and curious since it seems that I have the same setup belt/PN and it worked great.


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## ald1952

*Loud Auger disengage*

I purchased a new 3x HD 26" Cub Cadet snow blower 3months ago from the local independent Cub Cadet dealer. After using it a few weeks ago in less than 6" of powder and under one hours use the auger when disengaged made a loud rapping noise on several occasions. I called the dealer who promptly picked the machine up and after two weeks they say Cub Cadet has no fix for the problem and to use as is. I called Cub Cadet to air my complaint, was called back by "Bob" who stated its a manufacturing defect and at the present time they have no fix and perhaps one will be available by next years season. I stated I would settle for an exchange or refund, he more or less laughed and said no way. I also requested the dealer take it in trade but who wants a new defective machine. I've read the backyard fixes to the problem but the issue of warranty comes into play. Up to this point I was a Cub Cadet fan but will now change brands. I cant believe MTD/Cub Cadet lets this model be sold.There should be a consumer recall/replace.


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## skutflut

KMac said:


> So, the plot thickens.
> 
> After going to HD and showing them the issue, baffling them and their calling cub cadet... There was an issue with my model, generally. Seems that some machines were assembled with incorrect auger belts (mine had a too large tractor belt hence the hitting on finger), and incorrect size pulleys.
> 
> HD agreed to repair under warranty for free, and, that they would also refund my purchase if I decided to purchase another blower, anywhere. Very gracious.
> 
> So all in all, a good outcome. But, seems that this could be a recurring issue (for anyone else listening in ) with improper assembly of my model blower. Seems to be the case only for this model ... The 26 inch 3 stage machine.


By the look of it, it appears that yourTRACTION belt might be too SMALL. It seems sit too deep in the pulley. Maybe have them confirm that as well.

If you decide to get it repaired under warranty, insist they put on a new belt cover as the existing one shows damage from belt contact. Those things are pretty flimsy as it is, so you dont want one with a thin spot on it. The plastic mounting ears where it bolts on might have been stressed and will probably crack. I already had to replace one of them on my Craftsman with a strip of sheet metal, and its only 8 years ole.


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## brickcity

yes the belt covers are very flimsy.
very cheap design on my ariens. slots are cracked making cover loose.
had snow getting under it after pushing blower thru this last megadump last week.


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## gdinda

Well, I have the same issue with the knocking and am wondering from Kmac's response above was the belt and the pulley incorrect? Did HD replace both? I see reference to the pulleys being wrong also. I bought my unit in 2012 or 2013 the first year the 3x's hit the market I believe(maybe 2nd) and I don';t remember the knocking being as bad as now. I don't think it will be under any warranty(my bad) but want to make it right if there is a fix. I will probably call Cub Cadet if I don't get a response here. My model number is 31AH55SX710.


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## ChuckD6321

This thread goes on and on...

I'm posting for the same issue. This is for a 2015 model 31AH57SZ710, ser. 1L084B30216.
I believe I know what's happening and it isn't about the belt guide (part #747-06336A) as originally suspected. The clue is that the augers are not stopping properly when the auger lever is released pointing to the auger brake not doing it's job.

If I understand this (and I'm not a pro mechanic so correct me as needed please), when the lever is released the idler bracket should clamp down on the auger pulley and the augers should immediately stop. But in my case they take some time to spin down (and actually spin freely when the engine is off) which means the the now slack belt continues to move. Being slack, it's hitting the belt guide and/or plastic cover, which slaps it back in contact with the spinning engine pulley just briefly. That momentary contact is enough to keep the the loose belt moving and augers turning, with the belt bouncing between the engine pulley and the guide/cover, And on it goes. It happens fast enough to initially sound almost like gears not quite meshing and the sound is amplified by the plastic cover. It's loud! So it seems to me the problem is the brake isn't immediately stopping the augers.

It's late now and I won't be able to verify this possible problem with the return spring and the idler bracket until later tomorrow but I will check back in with what I find.

~~~~~~
Some of this was referenced from a post by member 2point2 on 10/13/2014 with a link to the service manual. See page 9 for pictures.
See here for the post.
~~~~~~

Hope this helps.


(edit: I'm recalling that the rattling sound happens without the cover on so that can be eliminated from the noise source, but the theory stands.)


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## ChuckD6321

And that was the problem.
The auger cable was a tad too tight so I loosened it by adjusting the pulley just to the point where there a slight bit of slack, but not to where it was flopping in the breeze, worked the idler bracket a bunch so it was moving freely and sprayed some WD-40 Lithium grease into all joints I could reach including the lever and pulleys. Fired it up and engaged/disengaged the auger several times and that RATTLE is gone.
It appears the braking part doesn't really clamp down hard on the belt, just applies friction to quickly stop it which is probably good as it presses on the belt and clamping it would wear it excessively. Maybe with a fatter (deeper?) belt it would stop it quicker but this is the exact OEM belt called for.


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## 92horizon

hey everyone i was working on a cub cadet snow thrower of my grandfathers and i had a problem with the belt chattering when auger was disengaged. so what i found for some reason the belt was still grabbing or being pinched in the pulley even when disengaged. ao the snow blower had a cogged v belt the new belt i replaced it with was a regular v belt.
so the belt cover keeps snow out and other debris but it also acts as a belt keeper for the upper pulley. i think was happening is the cogged belt was still getting pulled by the engine pulley and so the auger pulley has the brake engaged so it does this cycle of grabbing in the pulley until all the slack comes out and gets pulled to the other side then the belt starts to slip and the belt pulled itself back and restarts the process. and so u get the belt slapping vibration on the top of the pulley cover 
so i also noticed the engine pulley had a slight wobble to it and im thinking is an issue with the pulley or just the shape of the pulley isn't quite right that in combination with the cogged style belt and the pulley its just would keep grabbing in the pulley. the new regular belt only does it as its stopping. and that probably would be more normal but i wondering if there is any updates for serving it its a 2010 524we


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