# Quick Turn - Hilliard Clutch - Briggs & Stratton



## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

I have a questions for anyone who has some advice. I just purchased a Briggs & Stratton 27" / 11.50 TP* / Free Hand™ Control - https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...w-blowers/27--1150-tp--free-hand-control.html - and I am having some issues with turning the machine. I understand this machine does not have the dual trigger steering option, and after speaking with customer service I was told this unit has a "Hilliard Clutch system". The Hilliard clutch works in the way once the machine is moving, forward, or backwards, and you start to turn the machine, it will automatically engage the wheels to make the turn, however, I have tried this and still seem to be unable to make turns with my machine. As you can imagine this is creating a huge headache, and I will be heading out into the shop this afternoon to try this again and see what I can come up with. Also, the Product / Service manual this unit came with are poorly written to say the least!

Should I have went with an Ariens? Hahaha...Let's see if I can get some help on this subject.

Thanks!:grin:


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

The Hilliard Company is just down the road a piece from me and they have made and continue to make excellent clutches and other products. 


These autoturn clutches are sealed at the factory and require no adjustment and as I understand it Ariens uses these drive clutches in thier snow blowers as well. 

Are you willing to flip the snow blower on the cross auger housing and remove the bottom access cover to look at the rubber drive disc to see how well it is contacting the pulley to provide compression for the rubber drive disc?


The quick turn clutch engages the second you begin the turn in either direction. 

Are you lifting the snow thrower when you want to turn it?? Do you have poly skids on the snow blower?

These clutches are self contained and are self adjusting. 


In thiervideos the Hilliard folks show two of thier employees walking the snow blowers and climbing small hills with the cross auger housings raised while making turns. 

Try pushing down on the handlebars and raising the cross auger housing and then traveling forward or in reverse.

Worse comes to worse all you may to do is bolting some extra weight on the top of cross auger housing(a short piece of thick steel flat stock to add weight to create more resistance for the clutches to push against as the front end is light. 

If your snow blower is moving forward and backwards the wheel clutch(es) are engaging and would engage at a greater rate when turning with the snow blower raised by pushing down on the handle bars. 

I would remove the bottom access cover and take some pictures and post them here.



I cannot upload the 2 page PDF file describing the clutch and how it works as it is too big to upload here but you can find it at the Hilliard home page by typing hilliard snow blower clutch on google in the search box.


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

Thank you taking your time to give me a hand, I will follow up with my outcome once I get into the shop.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to SBF SNO-PRO

https://www.hilliardcorp.com/drive-train/

https://www.hilliardcorp.com/cmsb/uploads/mc-al.pdf


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

Thanks for the links!


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

This is the Hilliard video showing the Snow Blowers with the clutch in motion. My machine is not working like these when it comes to moving left-right. I am going to drain the fuel and take a look underneath via the access panel. Yes, I put my machine in gear forward/backward and tilted the machine up and still no reaction when trying to make a turn, it seems as something is locked preventing the turning motion from happening. Let's see what it looks like when I remove the access panel.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Forgive me for asking a dumb question. But in reading through the machine's info at your link, I didn't notice a mention of an easy-turning clutch setup? I guess I would have expected it to be listed in the marketing bullet points. 

Sorry, I wasn't able to pull up the manual to double-check exactly what the machine has. It just makes me wonder a bit, since what you're describing sounds kind of like a machine with just a fixed, "traditional" axle. 

At first, I assumed that Free Hand referred to the easy-turning clutch, but apparently it means the fairly-common handle lock that will keep both handles engaged when you take your hand off of one to make a chute adjustment: 
"Free Hand™ Control offers one-handed operation of the snowblower, allowing you a free hand to rotate the chute or adjust the speed."

Again, my apologies for asking what's probably a silly question, and I mean no offense by asking it. It's probably just a case of me missing the easy-turn clutch info in the machine's description.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

RedOctobyr said:


> Sorry, I wasn't able to pull up the manual to double-check exactly what the machine has. It just makes me wonder a bit, since what you're describing sounds kind of like a machine with just a fixed, "traditional" axle.


I have to agree with Redoctobyr. This machine does not have autoturn, or a Hilliard clutch according to the parts list I found at https://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/7a/7a968e35-b9ce-492c-ba40-f2427e415db8.pdf

It appears to be a pretty basic machine without heated grips, powered chute controls etc. 

They do mention a friction disk drive which shows as part 159 
on the parts listing. I think who ever at B&S told you that you had a Hilliard clutch in there was giving you just that, BS.


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

From what I noticed its definitely a fixed axle system so far......Looking for something that simply isn't there. I would not have purchased this machine knowing this ahead of time, but I was not aware that machines came with a "no turning option" or easy way or turning anyway.....pretty unhappy, and have not even used the machine yet.


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

I did see that as well part #159. I am going to drop the lower pan tomorrow and take a look, I was not aware Snow Bowers had Fixed axles, talk about an inconvenience. This seemed like a great machine for the price, and what it offers.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Sno-Pro you should take it back and purchase a smaller ariens with the refund. They very well may not take it back if you tip it on its nose and you scratch it up. 

Just tell them you wanted a machine with auto turn and leave it at that. You have to remember that you will have a machine that is light in the front and at least the Ariens has a weight kit and you can purchase an inflatable snow cab for the Ariens.


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

Leonz that is what I am thinking. I would lay a blanket down avoiding getting the machine scratched if i decide to do that, plus I was going to make sure everything is greased properly, but getting a machine with auto turn would be great. Thanks


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

SNO-PRO said:


> From what I noticed its definitely a fixed axle system so far......Looking for something that simply isn't there. I would not have purchased this machine knowing this ahead of time, but I was not aware that machines came with a "no turning option" or easy way or turning anyway.....pretty unhappy, and have not even used the machine yet.


Based on the parts list that skutflut posted, I don't think I'd even bother tipping it up and removing the bottom. As you said, you're looking for a part that won't be there, I think the mystery is solved. Tipping it up risks gas or oil spilling, as well as scratches, any of which would make it harder to return. 

A lot of machines don't have easy-turn setups, even high-end machines. Until a few years ago, when their HSS lineup came out, none of the Honda 2-stage machines had systems for easy turning, they were just fixed axles. 

Since you may be looking for a replacement, it may be worth first doing some reading on Autoturn (the Hilliard system), in the Ariens forum. Some people have better results than others. Some people love it, some people find that their machines tend to wander during use, and they struggle to keep them going straight. If you have a smooth driveway, that will help. If you have a lumpy driveway, with lots of things for the blower to catch on, Autoturn may get confused. You can change to plastic skid shoes, which can apparently help. And for this year, Ariens did make some design changes, which seems to give better results than the previous years of Autoturn machines. 

Just be aware that Autoturn does its best to figure out what you're trying to do, but can't be a mind-reader. It can have trouble distinguishing between you twisting the handles, to turn, and one side of the bucket catching on a piece of ice, when you still *want* it to go straight. 

The trigger systems have some appeal to me, in their simplicity. You tell the machine when you want to turn, rather than it trying to guess, like with Autoturn. Triggers are more common than Hilliard setups. To me, the type with 2 triggers, one for each wheel, is more appealing than the systems with just 1 trigger that unlocks a single wheel.


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

My father in-law brought his clutch to me when it quit working all together. It's essentially a bidirectional locking overrun clutch. It will not turn the machine but will release when you apply force to turn the machine breaking the solid axle resistance. Where this is a new unit I'll assume the clutch id OK and it's a mismatch of expectations.

I got to speak with an engineer at Hilliard and he wanted it back to study, he said failures are rare and they replaced it. When I had it apart the plastic roller locators were largely broken. In manipulating it I observed that its own internal o-ring friction is part of what helps it work, it seemed delicate to throw out in the cold. 

Gilson did wheel release clutches on one model (55191) I have one and it's a sweet machine to run. I'm not sure if complexity or cost ended it. It was the first version of the late model 5 speed friction drives. 2 clevis pins were cheaper.

Pete


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

[UOTE=SNO-PRO;1573441]From what I noticed its definitely a fixed axle system so far......Looking for something that simply isn't there. I would not have purchased this machine knowing this ahead of time, but I was not aware that machines came with a "no turning option" or easy way or turning anyway.....pretty unhappy, and have not even used the machine yet.[/QUOTE]

I had an 1983 craftsman (Murray) that had a solid axle. It offered an feature to remove a locking pin from one wheel axle, and move it to a different position to allow one wheel to freewheel, in other words, you reduced the machine to 1 wheel drive. This made for easier turning, but pretty useless performance in heavy snow.


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Based on the parts list that skutflut posted, I don't think I'd even bother tipping it up and removing the bottom. As you said, you're looking for a part that won't be there, I think the mystery is solved. Tipping it up risks gas or oil spilling, as well as scratches, any of which would make it harder to return.
> 
> A lot of machines don't have easy-turn setups, even high-end machines. Until a few years ago, when their HSS lineup came out, none of the Honda 2-stage machines had systems for easy turning, they were just fixed axles.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this in-depth response. Yes, I also like the idea of the two trigger system for turning. I am probably going to keep my machine since I did make the purchase online. The machine runs great and I can't complain about a single thing, Just wish I was aware of the fixed axle ahead of time & I would have with with a different option.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

If you were open to used machines, Ariens made them for quite a while with an open differential, like on a car. I've had two with this setup. 

It's pretty nice, very very easy to maneuver with the differential unlocked. You can spin the machine in-place with 1 hand. And both wheels are driven, which is an advantage over the simpler pull-the-pin, 1-wheel-drive setups. 

But, if one wheel gets on ice and starts to spin, you stop moving, since there's nothing to send torque to the wheel that still has traction. You can lock the differential, to make it act like a fixed axle, for more grip. But you have to stop and slide a pin at the left wheel to do that, so it's not something you can do on-the-fly, like a trigger system. 

I typically run mine with the axle unlocked, and the differential active, for easier handling. But if the snow gets really heavy and I'm having traction problems, I'll lock it, for solid 2-wheel drive.


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

skutflut said:


> [UOTE=SNO-PRO;1573441]From what I noticed its definitely a fixed axle system so far......Looking for something that simply isn't there. I would not have purchased this machine knowing this ahead of time, but I was not aware that machines came with a "no turning option" or easy way or turning anyway.....pretty unhappy, and have not even used the machine yet.


I had an 1983 craftsman (Murray) that had a solid axle. It offered an feature to remove a locking pin from one wheel axle, and move it to a different position to allow one wheel to freewheel, in other words, you reduced the machine to 1 wheel drive. This made for easier turning, but pretty useless performance in heavy snow.[/QUOTE]

Yes, In my manual for this machine it does mention that I can do that, but the thing is, my machine does not have that option, my axle only has one set of holes for each wheel, so removing the pins is only helpful to remove the wheel from the axle, not for turning purposes. Thanks for your response


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> If you were open to used machines, Ariens made them for quite a while with an open differential, like on a car. I've had two with this setup.
> 
> It's pretty nice, very very easy to maneuver with the differential unlocked. You can spin the machine in-place with 1 hand. And both wheels are driven, which is an advantage over the simpler pull-the-pin, 1-wheel-drive setups.
> 
> ...


Good to know for future reference. I should have went with this model https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...owers/27--1150-tp--dualtrigger-steering0.html Although, for the price jump, I would have to choose Ariens


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## SNO-PRO (Apr 7, 2018)

Spectrum said:


> My father in-law brought his clutch to me when it quit working all together. It's essentially a bidirectional locking overrun clutch. It will not turn the machine but will release when you apply force to turn the machine breaking the solid axle resistance. Where this is a new unit I'll assume the clutch id OK and it's a mismatch of expectations.
> 
> I got to speak with an engineer at Hilliard and he wanted it back to study, he said failures are rare and they replaced it. When I had it apart the plastic roller locators were largely broken. In manipulating it I observed that its own internal o-ring friction is part of what helps it work, it seemed delicate to throw out in the cold.
> 
> ...


Thanks Pete


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

SNO-PRO said:


> I had an 1983 craftsman (Murray) that had a solid axle. It offered an feature to remove a locking pin from one wheel axle, and move it to a different position to allow one wheel to freewheel, in other words, you reduced the machine to 1 wheel drive. This made for easier turning, but pretty useless performance in heavy snow.


Yes, In my manual for this machine it does mention that I can do that, but the thing is, my machine does not have that option, my axle only has one set of holes for each wheel, so removing the pins is only helpful to remove the wheel from the axle, not for turning purposes. Thanks for your response[/QUOTE]

if yours has a single hole, remove the pin, push the wheel further toward the machine on the axle, then put the pin back in in front of the wheel to keep the wheel from coming off. 

Briggs does have an upgraded model similar to yours with trigger steering and heated grips I think. 

My son bought a brigs 29 inch with heated grips, trigger steering, motorized chute controls and a hydro transmission, about 3 years ago. So far its served him well.


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