# Briggs Selling All Its Lawn and Garden Interests. Should I Still Buy a Simplicity?



## Jenny (Mar 2, 2020)

Wondering if its more risky now that Briggs will be selling them off with their other major outdoor erquip interests?

Assuming someone will pick Simplicity up and keep them afloat but possibility they will just die on the vine

They are selling Ferris, Billy Goat, Simplicity, Snapper and Snapper Pro brands. Simplicity might be the hardest to unload.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

it's either sell them off or go bankrupt , briggs has had money problems for a while since after they took on the brands that owed them big numbers. 
i would wait till the smoke clears .


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Briggs hurt themselves when they moved all of their engine production to China a couple of years ago and had lots of problems with them that cost them a lot of money. They are in the process of bringing the production back to the USA now, they have some back but not all yet.
They were doing well with Simplicity, but they made a mistake with Snapper and a bunch of the other really "Cheap" brands they took over and lost money on them because of quality problems that cost them lots of money on warranty, recalls, and buy backs.
Years ago Simplicity was on their own, then in 1965 Allis Chalmers took them over to get involved in the homeowner lawn and garden market. Eventually Allis Chalmers sold them off because Allis is such a large company that was more interested in large products, they didn't to be involved with the homeowner market anymore and sold them off to Briggs.
Briggs and Stratton wants to concentrate more on their engines again than to be tied down with all the other companies and products.
I wouldn't worry too much about Simplicity, they have been around for a long time, but hopefully nothing will happen to them like Ariens did to Gravely when they took them over to put them out of business because of Gravely's excellent quality and Ariens didn't want the competition.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...rhaul-to-refocus-on-power-business-2020-03-06

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...s-strategic-repositioning-plan-301018743.html


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Good articles 87.
They got banged with the import taxes on their engines that were made overseas the other year.
They tried to save money making them offshore for a while and had quality problems with some of them, then when Trump started enforcing the import tariffs on things, they decided to bring some production back because they were getting hammered both ends and started losing money.
They tried to get too big too fast with purchasing a lot of different OPE companies and that investment didn't pay off, a bunch of the different company's products had quality issues, that hurt them, and their own line of "Power Products" were not built very well, like their homeowner portable generators, water pumps and snowblowers.
Right now they have been investing in a lot of battery operated small equipment recently, and there is a lot of competition in that market right now, so we will have to see how that works out for them.
Ferris made the larger commercial zero turn mowers for Simplicity for a number of years, they were decent products and the homeowner Simplicity tractors were a good built machine, luckily they didn't go and take the "Big Box Store" route with them or they would have been history a while ago, that's probably why they were built better than the BBS equipment.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Looks like the final straw was the Sears bankruptcy: 

_The company is dealing with the impact of Sears filing for bankruptcy protection. Briggs & Stratton said last year that Sears accounted for about 10% of the residential home and garden market._


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

our sales reps some time back told us , that the briggs had been owned huge amounts of money from several ope manufactures for motors , briggs at the time being owed those amounts rather than let them declare bankrupt,and loose deeply for penny's on the dollar , took over controlling interest of those companies . makes sense ,save that they are still bleeding red ink from the takeovers


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## Greg13 (Nov 25, 2018)

My thoughts are, It serves them (and any other company) right for taking American jobs overseas in the name of profit. I just hope they can pull their head out and stay in business.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Greg13 said:


> My thoughts are, It serves them (and any other company) right for taking American jobs overseas in the name of profit. I just hope they can pull their head out and stay in business.


Greg, I agree with you in theory, i'm a major "buy American" guy, but there is also a flip-side to that problem: Many companys have been *forced* to move production to China by us, the American consumer. Because 95% of American consumers shop only on price, not on quality.

$4 plastic container at Walmart, made in China.
Vs. $6 plastic container at Walmart, made by Rubbermaid in the USA.
95% of the time China wins, because of cost alone. Most people wont even bother to look to see where it is made. Cost is the only consideration, they dont even care if its lower quality or hurts US jobs.

$99 Harbor freight replacent engine, made in China.
Vs. $250 Briggs engine made in the USA. (Back when they still existed)
95% of the time China wins, because of cost alone. Most people wont even bother to look to see where it is made. Cost is the only consideration, they dont even care if its lower quality or hurts US jobs.

And this of course applies to literally thousands of products. Yes, there are a few shoppers who look for US- made, but not enough to keep many product lines afloat. So the choice is often "move production to China, or go out of business completely"

Then, sometimes the US-made alternative ceases to exist completely..Yes, there is some blame for the corporations, but IMO 75% of the blame falls on the consumer..many companys literally cant make a product in the USA that enough Americans will buy, because having to pay US workers to make it, vs. Chinese workers, results in a product that costs more than the Chinese alternative. And most buyers will shop only on cost and buy the Chinese product. It's sad, but true.

Scot


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

In this ever evolving era of world economy, corporate take-overs, and over seas manufacturing in all aspects of manufacturing, it certainly does not surprise anyone that Brand Names are swept up in the whirl wind, as well as put to the sidelines.

There are many names that stood on there own and then gobbled up by others, and some that were put to rest.

However you look at it, it is a world economy now, and shutting the door to overseas manufacturing products is just not realistic … it is here to stay.

Quality sometimes suffers for the sake of profit, welcome to the corporate world.

Hey, you can still have a hand made Rolls Royce made for you, if you have an extra 350,000 dollars.


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

I'm with sscotsman, I fault mainly the consumer. Producers react to what the consumer wants, and as he said, most consumers want inexpensive over made in US. I still remember a quote from an in depth article I read a while back: "Producers don't send jobs overseas, consumers do". I believe there is alot of truth to that. 

tx


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

I would like to add that it is the fault of the consumers and investors. Producers are caught in the middle trying to satisfy consumer's lust for low prices and investor's lust for dividends. 

At the end, everybody wants more money, and every wants more for their money. Producers aren't coals, they aren't going to turn into diamonds with heat and pressure.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

It's a shame what happened when everything went "Global" that our government was trying to force down our throats years ago. They wanted to build China and southeast Asia's economy, but they forgot about the U.S.A.'s economy and what would happen to it and now they are finding out.
Our own government did't care that everything was made by "Slave-Labor" overseas, they knew there was big profits to be made by all the USA companies that moved their manufacturing operations overseas.
The company's made out, but the average person did not after the U.S. citizen lost their jobs, then they could only afford the cheap stuff because of the loss of their income.
You almost have to think it was first started during the Reagan administration, "Union Busting" years, then carried through during the 2 Bush administrations with giving the big company's the huge tax breaks and paying them to shut down operations here and paying them to move their manufacturing overseas at the cost of the American workers, and all the EPA restrictions added plus the federal pollution laws that helped force the American businesses to either shut down or get out of the country if they wanted to remain in operation.
They wanted to build the "Global" economy, but forgot about the American economy.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

It’s sad to see another company leave the space... that being said, I wasn’t a huge fan of the China built Briggs engines. 

Now it’s a world of Honda’s and Chonda’s.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

drmerdp said:


> It’s sad to see another company leave the space... that being said, I wasn’t a huge fan of the China built Briggs engines.
> 
> Now it’s a world of Honda’s and Chonda’s.


Don't forget about the Chohler's, or what used to be Kohler.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

aa335 said:


> I would like to add that it is the fault of the consumers and investors. Producers are caught in the middle trying to satisfy consumer's lust for low prices and investor's lust for dividends.
> 
> At the end, everybody wants more money, and every wants more for their money. Producers aren't coals, they aren't going to turn into diamonds with heat and pressure.


What most folks don't have the skills to recognize is that buying cheap offshore junk isn't cheap! When you finally realize that you need to rebuy that item 3 to 4 times to get the lifespan of what 20% more up front would have gotten you, it's too late . . .


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## Jenny (Mar 2, 2020)

I am just wondering if its safe to buy a Simplicity. 

I am itching to order the Simplicity PRO 1724 or an Ariens Platinum 24" and was leaning towards the Simplicity for the chute control until I read about the sale.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

tadawson said:


> What most folks don't have the skills to recognize is that buying cheap offshore junk isn't cheap!


The issue is made more complicated when one considers that sometimes, the less expensive offshore stuff is not only lower cost, but higher quality. Consider mid-70's to mid-80's cars. The American manufacturers sat on their greedy asses and produced (relatively) junk cars while Toyota and Honda ate not only their lunch, but breakfast and dinner too! And they're still doing it. The quality of all cars has dramatically improved since then but Japan still (overall) produces a higher-quality product than the U.S. manufacturers do. And when I go to buy a car, I don't care about the why's and werefore's and who-struck-john, when I'm spending that kind of money I have to get the best product I can for my money because I can't afford a do-over. And while all things being equal I'd rather "buy American" in too many instances things are nowhere near being equal. That's one reason we own a Honda car. The thing has 90k miles on it and we've done nothing but scheduled maintenance. Really, not so much as a light bulb. But we also own a GMC pickup, in part because no one offshore (at the time) made anything that came close to competing. If they had I certainly would have considered it. But I cannot say that the GMC has not needed more than scheduled maintenance, and when I do go to buy a new pickup I'll take a hard look at the Toyota Tundra and whoever else is making pickup trucks then. If GM or Ford or Chrysler (owned by Fiat) wants my $40k they'd danged well better show me a good reason why they deserve it more than Toyota. So far I haven't seen it.

It is well established that offshore companies can and often do produce products of poor quality. Less well acknowledged is that they are quite capable of producing high quality products and when they have to, they do. I have a Nikon camera that is of excellent quality, made in China. Ditto for a bunch of Milwaukee Electric tools and a bunch of electronic stuff for flying radio control airplanes, not to mention the PC I'm writing this on. I'm old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" was synonymous with "Junk Product". As a country Japan got their ducks in a row, turned that ship around and now "Made in Japan" is a mark of quality. It won't surprise me a bit if and when China does the same thing.

Kodak *invented* the digital camera, but they were making so much money off Kodachrome that they sat on their fat greedy butts for so long that Sony and Nikon and others literally invented a "better mousetrap" and by the time Kodak woke up it was too late and they went bankrupt, just like the buggy whip makers that ignored the Model T Ford. I didn't shed a tear for Kodak, they got complacent and the world passed them by.

BTW, Americans can and do produce their share of "cheap junk". I'm sure many remember the Ford Pinto, you know, the car that gave you a warm feeling when you got rear-ended.

And closer to the topic of this forum, I've seen many praise the "cheap" $99 Predator engine and many regard the label "Briggs and Stratton" as having not only a higher price but serious quality issues. I'll not feel the least bit guilty about buying that Predator engine. It sounds to me like a better product than the American one, and that's the product that is going to earn my hard-earned dollars.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

VWGuy, I have to agree with you on almost all of what you wrote.
Most of your Honda cars have been made in Marysville, Ohio since the early 80's and most of your Toyota's are made in the USA since back in the 80's and 90's that a lot of people don't know about. Your Honda's even used American made parts and suppliers.
You would have to check the first digit of the serial number to see what the "Country Code" is to tell where it was made at.
Unfortunately almost none of your American cars and trucks are built in the United States anymore, although very few are.
Now days people are really getting to see what "Corporate Greed" is all about, and what it did the American society.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Jenny said:


> I am just wondering if its safe to buy a Simplicity.
> 
> I am itching to order the Simplicity PRO 1724 or an Ariens Platinum 24" and was leaning towards the Simplicity for the chute control until I read about the sale.


Jenny, you should be safe with the Simplicity, they have a very loyal customer base that has been around for a very very long time so parts and service should not be a problem.
Simplicity was a strong enough division on its own without Briggs. They might just be able to pull away from Briggs on their own and reform back to their own independent company like Harley Davidson did.
You would have to worry if Ariens would ever take them over. Ariens would just take them over just for the name "Simplicity" and discontinue making their products like they did with Gravely Tractors.
Gravely had and still has such a strong customer base that a lot of the old machines and parts are still around without any help from Ariens, after Ariens discontinued making them. Ariens was known for doing that to companies that they took over to do away with the competition from them.


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## Johnny G1 (Jan 28, 2020)

The wife's 2014 CRV was built in Alliston Ontario and only has 48k on it yet, Have 2 nephews that have been there since day one and most of the part's are built in Ontario as they have their own engine plant right there, best car we have ever owned and she has had 4 of them.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

@ST1100A. I hope you are right about Simplicity. I always like their snowblower design, even though I haven't owned one.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

OK!lets get back on track people.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Simplicity built some pretty rugged heavy snowblowers. They weren't as popular as Toro or Ariens because they didn't advertise them like everyone else did.
Simplicity has a very loyal fan/customer base with their lawn and garden equipment so they had enough customers to keep them happy with what they had, and the lawn and garden equipment sales would make up for any loss they might get with the snow equipment, plus they made snow removal equipment for their tractors, plows and snow blowers, and there are still tons of them around still running from back in the 60's up till present.
Simplicity was smart enough to stay out of the Big Box Store market. They didn't have to go that route because they had enough sales on their own without having to rely on the box store sales for help, unlike a lot of other manufacturers had to do for their sales.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

My first new car was a 1997 Honda Civic. Made in Ohio by American auto workers! That was a great car, loved it.

You can now buy Honda and Toyota vehicles made in the USA, and some Fords are made in Mexico.
I would rather buy a Honda made in the USA than a Ford made in Mexico..
So yeah, the location of "the corporate headquarters" isn't so important anymore..
given the choice, I'll support the US-made product, as long as the quality is good.



WVguy said:


> Kodak *invented* the digital camera, but they were making so much money off Kodachrome that they sat on their fat greedy butts for so long that Sony and Nikon and others literally invented a "better mousetrap" and by the time Kodak woke up it was too late and they went bankrupt, just like the buggy whip makers that ignored the Model T Ford. I didn't shed a tear for Kodak, they got complacent and the world passed them by.


I was there! I worked at Kodak for 17 years, 1995 to 2012, in Digital R&D.
I absolutely loved Kodak, I met my wife there! Deb came to Rochester from Buffalo right after college, to take a job with Kodak,
and I came to Rochester after college from the Southern Tier, also because of Kodak. We worked in the same building and met there around '97.

(I was a photography major in college, graduated in 1992 with a bachelors degree in photography)

Now neither of us are at Kodak! but we are still in Rochester..
yeah, Kodak was a sad story..they basically owned photography for 100 years, but like you said, management didn't want to accept the fact the film and photo paper could ever go away, (because that was their cash cow) so they dragged their heels on the digital revolution. I watched the whole thing happen from the inside.

But it worked out well for me. I was laid off from Kodak in 2012, and I had the opportunity to go back to school for a second degree.
I'm now a sysadmin working in IT. In 2014 I was able to successfully switch careers in my mid-40's, so overall, Kodak was a good thing for me, I regret nothing..

Scot


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

Todays Hondas produced for the North American market are manufactured at Honda plants located in the United States, Japan and Mexico.

Todays Ford plants include Dearborn, Michigan; Kansas City, Missouri; Valencia, Venezuela and Cuautitlan, Mexico. The Transit Connect cargo and passenger vans are built in Kocaeli, Turkey and Craiova, Romania for the American market.

The sixth genration Honda assembly: (1995-2000)?	
Swindon, United Kingdom (HUM)
Suzuka, Japan
East Liberty, Ohio, U.S. (ELAP)
Alliston, Ontario, Canada (HCM)
Ayutthaya, Thailand
North Jakarta, Indonesia
Lahore, Pakistan (Honda Atlas)
Aragua, Venezuela
Sumaré, Brasil (Honda Brazil)
South Africa
Hsinchu, Taiwan
Nelson, New Zealand (Honda New Zealand)
Gebze, Turkey (Honda Gebze Plant)
Santa Rosa City, Laguna, Philippines,
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

My 2005 Town Car was proudly made in Wixom, Michigan up until 2007. Then was moved to Southwold, Ontario until 2011 when the making of the Town Car was discontinued.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Honda has 4 plants in Ohio, Anna, the engine plant. Down the road is East Liberty, then continue down the road to the big Marysville plant where auto is made in the big plant and next to that in the small plant was the motorcycle plant (1979-2000) which shut down and production went back to Japan.
The big Marysville plant is actually between East Liberty and Marysville on the outskirts of Marysville, Ohio. It is a huge complex with its R&D and even a test track and a lake for the employees to use.
They are located on the "Honda Parkway" Ohio Route 33. Go to Marysville, Ohio, get on Rt33 and go Northwest outside the city of Marysville and it will take you to all of the plants a few miles outside of town.
All of the plants are located withing a few miles of each other.
The Power Equipment was made in Greensboro N.C., now it moved down the road to the new plant in Swepsonville.
The old power equipment plant is now used to make the Honda Jet aircraft.


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

Interesting comments all. Well, here are mine. It seems to me that if B&S is "returning to its roots" so to speak and also investing in future technologies, then that is a good thing. I didn't see anything in the trade publications I get that indicates that they are bringing engine manufacturing back to the US. If any of you did see this, please share a link. 

I remember reading an old comic strip call POGO and main characters oft-used expression "I have seen the enemy and he is us." This would in may ways describe the American consumer and American media. The former (and I am no exception) seeks maximum value regardless of the consequences or buys strictly on price. He may rail about the fact that "nothing is made her anymore" while his 401k managers are putting the screws to US corporations in order to keep profits and the stock price up. This is many ways is what drives companies to China or other low cost countries. The American consumer may also take comfort in buying an America ASSEMBLED Honda (again, I am no exception) but the profits used for reinvestment are going to a foreign company. I would feel a lot better if LCT at least assembled their engines over here. 

Lastly, there is the media. I read a lot of trade magazines dealing with manufacturing and the engine business. From my observations, if a foreign company has quality problems or recalls, it isn't considered newsworthy to our domestic media. If it is American, then it is just the opposite. The problems with Toyota about a decade ago were a rare exception. I don't want to go too far off-topic, but I do think there is a bias that feeds this notion that US companies are somehow inferior to foreign ones. Well, that is all I have to say except that I hope B&S survives.


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

if your interested in the brands and models considered american made. for this study american made means assembled in the USA with at least 50% of the parts coming from north america.

no Chevy silverado :sad2:


https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g25062312/american-car-brands/


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

Lets get back to snow blowers, not cars !


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## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

87powershiftx2 said:


> Lets get back to snow blowers, not cars !


Honda blowers are still made in the US, right?

Toro moved production to Mexico, with Chinese engines. Very disappointed in my home-state manufacturer. I have one of their last mowers built in Minnesota with a built in USA B&S. 

Ariens is still made in Wisconsin, with engines built in China by a US manufacturer. 

The fall of companies like B&S were inevitable. We see it repeatedly yet the lesson never seems to sink in. When you invest in China and move your manufacturing there it's only a matter of time before somebody over there figures out they can do it themselves (or flat out steal your IP) and undercut the middle men in America.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

this thread has gone from " Briggs Selling All Its Lawn and Garden Interests. Should I Still Buy a Simplicity?" to OFF TRACK about where cars are made,


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

The Honda 624 and 828 models were made in the USA. They used to have big stickers "Made in the U.S.A." on them, and the engines used on them had that cast on them back in the 80's early 90's.
But lets hope for the best with Briggs getting back to just engine making here in the USA now.


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## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

OK, back on point, personally, I have been a big fan of Simplicity for decades, but I would not buy one right now. Parts availability can be pretty important in the years to come, and that's up in the air. If the electric chute stops working and Simplicity is no more what would you do? I'm not sure Simplicity has enough market share to be all that attractive to a buyer who would keep them intact. That would be real shame, they do bring a lot to the table. I guess that could happen with any manufacturer, but Simplicity is a fairly high risk right now.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

You would be safe with those electric servo motors and switches used for the chute deflection control, a lot of other manufacturers use the same parts made by the same company, then sold to the different manufacturers for their own products.
Engine and drive-train parts would be available, certain "Chassis Specific" parts might be harder to get, but there are a lot out there in warehouses that people and companies already stockpiled.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

I thought Briggs is making most of their engines in the USA with the exception of Vanguard and snow blower engines?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

reader2580'
Most of Briggs engines are made overseas. The Vanguards are starting to be made in this country again, along with a couple of other larger engine models.
It will take Briggs many years to get most of their manufacturing back to the USA again. They have to build all new factories to replace all the ones they closed and sold off to the housing developers and warehouse builders. The warehouse's that are used for storing everything that used to be made here in the U.S. and is now made overseas and shipped to this country for the American consumer to purchase.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

ST1100A said:


> reader2580'
> Most of Briggs engines are made overseas. The Vanguards are starting to be made in this country again, along with a couple of other larger engine models.
> It will take Briggs many years to get most of their manufacturing back to the USA again. They have to build all new factories to replace all the ones they closed and sold off to the housing developers and warehouse builders. The warehouse's that are used for storing everything that used to be made here in the U.S. and is now made overseas and shipped to this country for the American consumer to purchase.


I just looked at the Briggs website. I don't know that I would say most engines are made overseas. I looked at all the various series of engines they make and only two or three lines in riding mower and push mower are imported. All of the utility engines and snow blower engines are imported.

For some reason I thought most of the the lineup is made here in the USA.


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## dananorth (Jul 24, 2021)

I don't see anything wrong with the company selling everything. Most likely, this company has gone bankrupt and sells its lawn and garden accessories at reasonable prices. It's sad, but most likely, it is. It is better to sell everything and stay at least in some plus.
If you need something from this, then buy it and do not look for any pitfalls. Unfortunately, I have already bought lawn accessories elsewhere. By the way, it is not very cheap. I love spending time in my garden. It's like a sedative for me. Now I have only to buy new garden furniture for my terrace.

*_*
gardenfurniture.co.uk


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## LenD (Nov 17, 2020)

dananorth said:


> If you need something, you should just buy it.


Thread is over a year old


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