# Auto-Turn thought....



## MinnTim (Jan 20, 2014)

Ok. I'm still 60/40 (against/for) on the auto-turn. So I've been thinking about it, how it works and go back and look at the ARIENS video with how it works.

If you watch the video you'll see the gears ride over each other when the spring inside the mechanism disengages them during a turn. I started a chat with Ariens tech support about the teeth wearing in the long run since they're passing over each other and not really fully coming out of mesh and freewheeling. 'Tyler' said they won't wear because the spring kicks them out. Partially true I guess.

Here's the vid:






At about 1:12 in the video they start to show how it works. At 1:33 the video is so clear showing the teeth chattering over each other it's not even funny. 

So, anyone else out there think that over time this could become an issue? Typically when metal teeth pass over each other over time they become rounded and grip less and thus slip more.

Who knows, maybe Ariens has some special steel in there that takes forever to wear? Rearden Metal??


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 6, 2013)

If it ever wears out I'll put back in the ATC in which I took out to put the Auto-Turn in


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## fixer5000 (Nov 3, 2013)

doesnt that auto turn assy have oil inside it?? i think it does...no not in the cutaway on the video


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 6, 2013)

According to Ariens, when I asked them during a phone conversation with a tech, they said it doesn't.


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## MinnTim (Jan 20, 2014)

fixer5000 said:


> doesnt that auto turn assy have oil inside it?? i think it does...no not in the cutaway on the video


Well, that would certainly make a difference for sure and makes sense. 'Tyler' didn't elude to that. Hopefully it does. Actually it would have to or else they would be blowing out all over on the commercial machines.


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## MinnTim (Jan 20, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> According to Ariens, when I asked them during a phone conversation with a tech, they said it doesn't.


Hmmm....not good. Maybe at least greased?


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## docfletcher (Nov 28, 2013)

Supposed to be wet sump for the auto turn, not so for the ATC though.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 6, 2013)

docfletcher said:


> Suopposed to be wet sump for the auto turn, not so for the ATC though.


Contact Ariens and ask them...maybe you'll get a different answer than I did...lol He told me straight blank, no wet sump.


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## MinnTim (Jan 20, 2014)

JRHAWK9 said:


> Contact Ariens and ask them...maybe you'll get a different answer than I did...lol He told me straight blank, no wet sump.


Wow, that would be B A D. Time to take one apart!!! Who volunteers!


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

MinnTim said:


> Ok. I'm still 60/40 (against/for) on the auto-turn. So I've been thinking about it, how it works and go back and look at the ARIENS video with how it works.
> 
> If you watch the video you'll see the gears ride over each other when the spring inside the mechanism disengages them during a turn. I started a chat with Ariens tech support about the teeth wearing in the long run since they're passing over each other and not really fully coming out of mesh and freewheeling. 'Tyler' said they won't wear because the spring kicks them out. Partially true I guess.
> 
> ...


You need to think about the alternative. Lets say you could have any axle you would ask for.

What would that be?

Ken


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## MinnTim (Jan 20, 2014)

ken53 said:


> You need to think about the alternative. Lets say you could have any axle you would ask for.
> 
> What would that be?
> 
> Ken


Well, only having had a solid and now the AT, I'm not sure. Maybe if the AT wasn't sooo automatic. I guess I'm getting into a clutch then aren't I? Never had one of those so I can't make an informed comment on them.

My solid axle was on a light 5.5HP 24" Yard Machine; easy to throw around. Now, 260lbs of Arien's 921 30" I'm not so sure about. It's a LOT of power.

I know, hope, I'll have this a LONG time as I keep my stuff up to snuff and it lasts pretty good. But I see this AT gearing and wonder. Only time will tell. I figure if worse comes to worse I can remove the AT clutches, drill through them and put some bolts in there to essentially make it a solid axle. But that shouldn't be for a _very_ long time, if ever.


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## docfletcher (Nov 28, 2013)

JRHAWK9, Here is a quote from snowmann...

"The latest Auto Turn releases power from the interior wheel for tighter turning radii, has a wet sump for longer life, and unlocks faster than the old system (formerly called ATC, Auto Traction Control). I hope this helps."


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 6, 2013)

docfletcher said:


> JRHAWK9, Here is a quote from snowmann...
> 
> "The latest Auto Turn releases power from the interior wheel for tighter turning radii, has a wet sump for longer life, and unlocks faster than the old system (formerly called ATC, Auto Traction Control). I hope this helps."



Yeah, I read that awhile ago and one of the reasons why I wanted to ask Ariens about it to confirm/deny it. 

I'm still not 100% sure which one it is though.


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## celltech (Nov 8, 2013)

I wish they made a kit to disable it. It sucks on driveways with slopes going down hill with uneven pavement.


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## ken53 (Nov 7, 2013)

MinnTim said:


> Well, only having had a solid and now the AT, I'm not sure. Maybe if the AT wasn't sooo automatic. I guess I'm getting into a clutch then aren't I? Never had one of those so I can't make an informed comment on them.
> 
> My solid axle was on a light 5.5HP 24" Yard Machine; easy to throw around. Now, 260lbs of Arien's 921 30" I'm not so sure about. It's a LOT of power.
> 
> I know, hope, I'll have this a LONG time as I keep my stuff up to snuff and it lasts pretty good. But I see this AT gearing and wonder. Only time will tell. I figure if worse comes to worse I can remove the AT clutches, drill through them and put some bolts in there to essentially make it a solid axle. But that shouldn't be for a _very_ long time, if ever.




None of us know how durable AT will be. Its new and that's the chance we all take when we decide to be first to use any new product. 

To put your mind at ease just a little. If you watch the video, you will notice that the two spring loaded inner gears only slip when under the slight spring pressure. As soon as these same two gears line up, they are forced outward with a decisive instant force. Hence locking, in a very quick positive manner. So the amount of slipping the unit will experience, should be mostly under weak spring pressure.

You have valid concerns about AT. I do too. But from what Ariens is showing us in the video, it should be ok.

I used a lot of different blowers over 40 years._ (Although Wisconsin doesn't get that much snow overall.)_ My short time with AT has been perfect, and I wouldn't change it for any other manufactures snow blower axle, period. 

It probably is not going to be the perfect axle. But then, I have yet to see the perfect axle on any machine.

That being said. I think its time to talk about the elephant in the room. 

Where the heck is Ariens in all this. If they can't have someone out on these forums answering simple questions about their product the h!ll with them. The members here have valid concerns. I am as big an Ariens fan as I could ever be, but it is just plain wimpy of Ariens not to be out here representing there own product.

Maybe its time we all start looking at Hondas if Ariens is to wimpy to be out here in the real world explaining their product.

Your post is very good, and you should like your blower. Its not ok for your blower to be just ok. Like I said often, it should put a smile on your face when you use it. 

Ken


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## docfletcher (Nov 28, 2013)

Snowmann reiterates here in the same thread... The internals for these two are completely different. There are fewer complex or moving parts in the Auto Turn. It is also completely sealed with a wet sump case. The feature is more robust than previous systems, including legacy differentials.

I'd be very surprised if he where wrong. But it's possible.


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

This is a reply from Ariens, when I questioned auto-turn maintenance at the end of October.
"The only maintenance you need to do to the Auto-Turn is put some grease on the outside gears. The Auto-Turn is self-contained and no other maintenance needs to be done to it."

I had been questioning the lack of maintenance information for the A-T in the owners manual of my new machine.


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## JRHAWK9 (Jan 6, 2013)

I'll agree with the no maintenance part, it's a completely sealed unit. When I installed mine I just put some grease on the gears like you're supposed to.


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## Nforesir (Dec 7, 2013)

Where the heck is Ariens in all this. If they can't have someone out on these forums answering simple questions about their product the h!ll with them. The members here have valid concerns. I am as big an Ariens fan as I could ever be, but it is just plain wimpy of Ariens not to be out here representing there own product.

Maybe its time we all start looking at Hondas if Ariens is to wimpy to be out here in the real world explaining their product.

I have a new Ariens 24" deluxe, so far it's been great, when I was looking to buy last Dec, I had read the concerns expressed on this web site, not really needing the AT and upon reading the concerns I went for the deluxe 24. I hope Ariens can make this right. I think they make a great snow blower.


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## MinnTim (Jan 20, 2014)

*Chat with Ariens as of 1.30.14.*

Here's what Greg at Ariens chat had to say. Take it FWIW:

Hi, my name is Greg. How may I help you?

MinnTim: Hi, Have a 2014 30" Dlx. Wondering about the auto-turn mechanism. In the video the gears are slipping over each other pretty good. Is there some sort of oil/grease contained in the unit to stop/decrease the wear of those teeth always slipping over each other? Thanks.

Greg: Yes, there is. The differential in the video was made without, in order to see the teeth in action.

MinnTim: Yeah, figured that. Is it oil/grease? Does it ever have to be serviced? I would think after break in there's some shavings floating around in there.

Greg: No, this is a maintenance free differential. We do not assemble these here at Ariens. We order these in from General Transmission and I believe it to be grease, which has a less chance of oil leaking.

Greg: We did co-engineer these with Gen Trans, but they still do the assembly.

MinnTim: Ok, thanks for the info.

Greg: Your welcome.

Greg: Is there anything else I can help you with today?

Please use the Reference Number on your transcript to contact us regarding this issue. This transcript will be automatically emailed to you upon completion of this chat. We are happy to help. Thank you.

MinnTim: Nope, I'm good. Thanks.

Greg: Your welcome.
Thank you for contacting the Ariens Company.

'MinnTim' disconnected ('Concluded by Agent').




*My comment to this:

*Brand new gearing sealed forever in grease. Gear teeth naturally find how they like best to fit together. During that process you always tend to shed some metal. No biggie, just how it works. But then you have all that metal floating around in the 'lubricating' grease.

Now, he used the word differential. Would you, in your favorite truck, not change your oil/grease in your differentials, crankcases, trannies and transfer cases after some time, especially after break-in?

I'm not trying to blow up the whole AT thing. I just take care of my stuff and part of that is learning how everything works to an extent and the required/needed maintenance. I'm no spring chicken and have been around engines in one form or another (from military aircraft to small engines) for some time so I think about these things. Can't help it.  

I guess I could bug them and see if there's a rebuild kit!!!   I think the biggest thing one would need are the O-rings, with any luck they'd be a standard size.

Time will tell. In the end I don't think we'll see any catastrophic failures. That makes me think of something else; what is the default state of the AT during a failure? Will you lose all control or ability to move or does it just lock in and you lose the AT feature?

'Snow storm' today....get to use the new beast again today. It, for the most part, makes my clearing time sooo easy now.


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