# craftsman headlight



## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

I have a craftsman 8hp/26" driftbreaker model#536.909800 circa 1978
B&s 143.686092 

When I got the machine used, the bulb was burnt out. I ordered a new one for $25, it worked for a short time and it burnt out. I don't want to get a new bulb without checking things out first. 

There are three wires coming out of the engine connected to a black plastic female 3 position connector. The wires are black, red and green. The headlight has one wire going to a white plastic male 3 position connector. This wire, when plugged in, connects to the red wire. There is a short black jumper wire that is attached to the black wire and it goes to another position in the plastic connector so that it, when plugged in, connects to the black wire coming from the engine. I don't know how to test this setup and I can't find any information in the parts manual. Does anyone know this engine and stator setup? How do I test it and what should I expect to find?


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

*photos*

Here are two photos illustrating my previous post. Something doesn't seem right about this but I don't know. It worked for a short time and then blew the bulb. I need help with this one.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Jengle, I might be wrong, but I believe you have a 8 HP Tecumseh Engine (HM80-155170E) on your craftsman!


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

I don't remember why I thought it was a b&s. I will double check the model on the engine tomorrow. The 143.686092 parts diagram looks very much like my engine so I'm guessing that much is correct, its just a tecumseh?


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Just make sure you write this engine number (HM80-155170E) down just in case will help when parts and manuals are needed.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Jengele click here: http://www.tecumsehpower.com/CustomerService/OperatorManuals/pdf/181-630-14.pdf


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

That doesn't look like my engine. I'll take pictures when I get home but these are the differences I notice: The choke, mine has no kill switch but a key, the air intake on mine is below the muffler, and more.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I just looked it up on Google and got the same Tecumseh cross reference number as Simplicity Solid 22


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

The Manual is a newer than your engine but has the same essentials as your year HM-80. Mine does not have a Kill switch either. Mine is a early/mid eighties...I just gave that to you as reference so you would have something for your engine.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Do you have a meter you can measure the voltage with? While it's running of course. At high rpm.
I have a similar vintage Craftsman but no light/stator to help you with the connections./
Edit. Does it run with the plug and jumper disconnected?


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

OK, sorry to harp on this but I'd like to get this nailed down. Attached is a photo of my engine. I can't find a label on it identifying it but I haven't stripped it down either, it might be there I just can't find it. Also, this is why I got the model number I think it is: the other photo shows the page in the parts manual that came with the snowblower (I bought the snowblower from the original owner). The engine model number is in the top right corner of the parts diagram, it is 143.686092. there is no indication in the manual who makes the engine. I assumed B&S and shouldn't have, it could certainly be Tecumseh.
I scanned the manual(28 pages) and forwarded it to HCBPH(moderator) a couple years ago who makes it available to anyone who asks. I am happy to be wrong about this, I want to have access to the right information.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

I've got a new muffler coming in the mail. When I install it and start up the engine the first time this season (maybe this weekend) I will test the voltage. I'm not sure which of the 3 wires to test(I guess I'll test voltage on all three), and what I should expect, and why there is a jumper between two of the wires. The jumper seems odd to me.


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

I'm not sure about the jumper but testing the voltage may require a bulb. Without a load the voltage may seem high.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

You know, there has always been a sticker on my engine that says, "this engine has provisions for electric starter kit", you can see it in the photo in my earlier post. Could it be that the stator in this engine has a DC recharging circuit for the battery that would come with the electric starter? This would explain why there would be two wires, the third green wire could just be a ground? I suppose if I open it up and look for a diode that would help. It doesn't explain why the black and red wires are connected, however, it would explain why my bulb keeps blowing!


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## Brucebotti (Feb 10, 2013)

jengele said:


> You know, there has always been a sticker on my engine that says, "this engine has provisions for electric starter kit", you can see it in the photo in my earlier post. Could it be that the stator in this engine has a DC recharging circuit for the battery that would come with the electric starter? This would explain why there would be two wires, the third green wire could just be a ground? I suppose if I open it up and look for a diode that would help. It doesn't explain why the black and red wires are connected, however, it would explain why my bulb keeps blowing!


I wonder if they mean a 120v starter kit, which most seem to have today. I had it on my 1995 MTD that I just retired, and I never even used it or even tried it to see if it worked.
Bruce


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

You're right. I've read about them but never seen one in use.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

*Stator assembly*

I looked at my parts diagram I have and came up with part number 610981 and/or 610980. I looked up these part numbers online and found a more detailed parts diagram at Tecumseh Part Store and the same diagram at www.partstree.com. From these diagrams it appears there are two different assemblies and only one is currently available. 

The parts diagram shows the now unavailable #15 stator plate assembly having 3 wires coming out with two plastic plugs(#27 and #27a) and a jumper wire between them. 

On my machine (you can look at the picture earlier in this thread), it looks like I have plug #27B coming out of the machine and a jumper wire on the male side of the plug. In addition, my machine has 3 wires coming off the stator.

I'm speculating that the 2 plugs are for: headlight and electric start? How does that work? Do most snowblower engines have a ground wire coming off the stator? I'm still confused as to why there are 3 wires.




OEM Parts

https://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=tecumseh&mn=MG-611051&dn=MAG36MAG_36611051-MG


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

I believe you're looking at ignition, not power generation. I don't know what all the wires coming out of it do, I thought there was only one, for engine kill.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

One of those plugs is definitely supposed to power the headlight, no question about that, it does for a short time until it blows. the kill wire is connected to the key switch and to the coil assembly, #13 in the tecumseh diagram and grounds it out and works fine. I suspect someone rewired my blower wrong and I'm trying to fix it. Could the other plug be for accessories like handwarmers? That would be cool if I could hook that up. More likely it has something to do with the electric starter but I don't know how that works.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Perhaps the loop back is for a rectifier or regulator that supports a battery....say 
I still think it would be worthwhile to measure the voltage with it running. Determine if it is AC or DC (my guess is AC).
What was the wattage of the original lamp?

Edit:
Perhaps both the outside wires are power output and they are just combining them to feed the light.
Run it and measure each pin. See if 1 and 3 are the same and they are just combining two smaller gauge wires to feed the lamp.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

You can see the holes on the top of your engine shroud by the sticker that says engine designed for starter kit meant for future install of the Starter Plug.

Usually your engine number is right up there as well impregnated in the metal.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

OK, I checked the voltage this way: red probe clipped to tab in the plug(plug disconnected), black probe to ground, engine running obviously, meter set to 50vac.
red and black wires each got 11.5vac and the green wire got nothing. When the meter was switched to dc I got nothing on all three wires.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Sad we that we have to reverse engineer this, but there is little info available.
In a Tecumseh manual here http://www.asos1.com/tecumseh4hp/Tecumseh.pdf
it says

Tecumseh's standard engine wiring color codes, effective August, 1992 are as follows:​*Code Product​*Yellow - Alternator A.C. Leads
Red - Alternator D.C. + Leads
Brown - Alternator D.C. - Leads
Black - Alternator Ground Leads, Battery Ground Leads
Orange - 12 Volt Starter B + Leads
Dark Green - Ignition Shut-Off Leads​*NOTE:​*​​​​PRIOR TO AUGUST 1992, WIRE CODES CHANGED ACCORDING TO MODEL AND SPECIFICATION NUMBERS.

I realize yours is way before these color codes became standard, but if you look at pictures of newer Tecumseh  alternators, they have yellow wires on each side of the three prong plug.
A.C. power leads....just like yours. 

Take a look at the alternator testing starting on page 53 of the pdf linked above.
It does want the voltage checked with a working 18 watt bulb installed.​


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Jengele, I believe you have a 3 amp AC system(Tec# 610981).

Only one I can find in Tec manual with Red, Green, and black wire.
Looks like you were running at 3600 rpm's.

Going to assume you need a 36watt bulb??? (maybe why bulb keeps burning out if 18 watt bulb)



*3 Amp A.C. Lighting Alternator Models: H & HSK 30- 35, HS & HSSK 40, H & HSK 50-60,*
*HH50-60, HM & HMSK 70-80-100, HHM80*
fig. 84
Yellow(red or black on older models)
Green
Yellow(red or black on older models)​

HEAD & TAIL LIGHT(red or black wire on older models)
IGNITION GROUND(green Wire
STOP LIGHT(red or black wire on older models)​​Before making any exterior tests, check for an
inoperative switch, shorted wires and burned out
headlight and/or stop tail light. To check out the
alternator, check the A.C. lead to ground (diag. 84).
With engine running the minimum values should
read:
2500 R.P.M. - 8.0 Volts A.C.
3000 R.P.M. - 9.5 Volts A.C.
3300 R.P.M. - 10.5 Volts A.C.
3600 R.P.M. - 11.5 Volts A.C.
If the above minimum readings are noted, the
alternator is okay. Check for defective lights, wiring
or switches. If less than the above readings, the
alternator is defective.​

*NOTE: 
*ON OLDER POINT IGNITION SYSTEMS,
THE A.C. OUTPUT LEADS ARE BLACK AND RED.



*35 Watt A.C.*
Before making any exterior tests, check for an
inoperative switch, shorted wires and burned out
headlight and/or stop tail light. To check out the
alternator, check the A.C. lead to ground at each
yellow wire(Red and black on older models) (diag. 69).
With engine running, minimum values should read:
2500 R.P.M. - 8.0 Volts A.C.
3000 R.P.M. - 9.5 Volts A.C.
3300 R.P.M. - 10.5 Volts A.C.
3600 R.P.M. - 11.5 Volts A.C.
If the above minimum readings are noted, the
alternator is okay. Check for defective lights, wiring
or switches, if less than the above readings, the
alternator is defective.
*NOTE: *​*
*​*
*ON OLDER POINT IGNITION SYSTEMS,
THE A.C. OUTPUT LEADS ARE BLACK​AND RED.
​​​​​


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I concur.
I just came back to point out that section but SS22 beat me to it.
Those were no load values. Looks like the power output is normal.
11.5 volts @ 3 amps = 34.5 watts.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Right with you Dbert...hope I didn't steal your thunder.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

OK, this is promising. I think it is tec#610981. Thanks for the link to the manual. I found the page that shows what you are referring to. I still have some questions like, did my machine ever have a head, tail and stop light? How would the stop light be triggered?
I'll have to check the bulb I have in there and see if it says how many watts it is. And, if the two leads are jumpered together, does that mean (11.5+11.5) x 3amps = 69watts? Maybe, if I want to run just my headlight, I should connect it to only one of the leads?


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I'd guess tail and stop references were for a lawn tractor or mini bike or something like that.
Because it's AC, it's possible that the two outputs are different phases, but I somehow doubt it. To rule it out measure from pin Ac 1 (red) to AC 2 (black) at the plug while it's running. If they both have 11.5 at the same time (AC peaks hi and low at the same moment), there will be a difference of zero volts. Meaning 11.5 plus 11.5 equals 11.5. 
I don't expect that to make sense. I have never worked on a small engine alternator like this before and I know just enough about electricity to be dangerous.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

I checked the bulb I have in there that burnt out and it is 12V 35W. I'm thinking that only one of the two power leads need to be hooked up to it not both the way mine is. As the Tecumseh manual states: One lead is for the head and tail lights and the other lead is for the stop lights. I have a snowblower with no stop or tail lights so my headlight should be connected to one of the leads not both jumped together , right?


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

This may be a stretch, but seeing as this is AC, maybe the 2 leads work like 220v in a house, each wire to GND is a certain volts, but across the two is they are double?


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

I think the rule is: wire in parrallel, increase amperage. I have two 3amp leads wired in parrallel, so I've been running my headlight with 11.5 volts and 6amps. Watts equals amps times volts. 6*11.5 equals 69watts. Does it matter that my bulb only draws 35watts?


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

jengele said:


> I think the rule is: wire in parrallel, increase amperage. I have two 3amp leads wired in parrallel, so I've been running my headlight with 11.5 volts and 6amps. Watts equals amps times volts. 6*11.5 equals 69watts. Does it matter that my bulb only draws 35watts?


Does it matter that you have a bulb filament that's meant to draw 35 watts DC and you're feeding it with 69 watts AC? 
Wow. This is getting complicated.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I don't think incandescent lamps care if it's AC or DC.
Typically amps are pulled, not pushed.
A 60 watt lamp in your house draws about .5 amps. If you turn on just one lamp in your house (with say 200 amp service) will it blow?
If I hook two wires to the positive side of a 12 volt battery do I get 24 volts? No.
There is the slight possibility that they are from different coils and different phases. Your lamp is connected to ground , not phase to phase.
Without a voltage regulator and battery you may be getting some voltage spikes. The numbers you measured before ...were they the peaks at high rpm?
I'd say plug in that connector with the jumper and measure the combined head and tail light voltage at your lamp socket. Any different if you pull the pin out of the tail circuit? If not it's just an extra conductor and not really hurting anything. Pull it off if it concerns you.
I'd love to suggest you look for an LED light, but in this case, AC vs Dc does matter and you have the wrong kind.


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

In a house, you can plug a .5 amp light into a 200 amp circuit because the 115 volts is regulated. The bulb regulates the flow of electricity with it's resistance. On a snowblower engine, it's just some coils that push whatever they can and they rely on the bulb to draw the voltage down.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

nt40lanman said:


> In a house, you can plug a .5 amp light into a 200 amp circuit because the 115 volts is regulated. The bulb regulates the flow of electricity with it's resistance. On a snowblower engine, it's just some coils that push whatever they can and they rely on the bulb to draw the voltage down.


Do we agree that it's over voltage that will burn out the/ light vs excess amps? Will unplugging the second (tail) wire change the voltage output?


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

yes. Try from one lead to GND and see what happens.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

I finally bought a new sealed bulb 12vac 35watt from advance auto parts for $11. I cut off the jumper wire so only one wire from one 3amp lead connects to the headlight. I had to run a ground wire from the headlight to a bolt. I tested it out and it worked. I'm going out in a few minutes to blow. I'll be out there at 7pm and its dark so I'm glad the light is working! Hopefully it will work for the rest of the season at least.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

You are using a bulb that is bigger than the original. I'm not sure if the fact that it's designed to run more amps through it puts a strain on the system and or is responsible for it's early demise 

On mine (both) they call for a 4411 bulb, clear lens 18 watts and it's available at some auto parts stores. Orielly carries it for $5.99 Eiko or $9.49 Sylvania. Usually need to order it but comes in next day (where I'm at).

You can also use a 7414Y (amber) that is also an 18 watt light but it's amber and I always wonder what people driving by think. The yellow really looks odd at night coming through the mist of snow.  I have one of mine with amber.

The size is a PAR 36 and there are others but they are mostly higher wattage. There is a listing for an emergency light like you see in the battery packs over doors and I was curious bout it but it's only 11 watts. What I liked is it's a very wide flood. You want to make sure you don't get a spot bulb as the beam is too narrow. Floods are the way to go as you get more peripheral coverage.

Does that 35W bulb get nice and bright when the throttle is open ??

On your engine it's like mine and the connector for the headlights power is a three wire and the one in the middle isn't used. The two outer leads are bridged together to supply power to the headlight all the time it's running. I haven't seen an older one with an "off" switch unless it was owner added. It's a good idea if you don't mostly do your blowing in the dark as the lights are only rated for 300 hours and that's not including it's mounted on a rattling snow blower doing everything it can to break the filament inside the bulb  If you add a switch make sure it's sealed or can be fitted with a rubber cap/cover.

Depending on how well you wired it in can you try to connect it to the wire you cut to see what happens ??


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

I was going to suggest: If you were sick of blowing bulbs in the "testing stage", you should wire up a re-settable fuse till you figure it out. Cheaper then buying bulbs.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

Kiss4afrog:
You have a different machine than mine. According to the tecumseh manual I have a dual 3amp headlight,stop light/tail light system. My manual calls for headlight #42318. Amps times volts equals watts. 35 watt 12 volt bulb draws 2.9 amps. 

If your machine calls for an 18 watt bulb its because according to the tecumseh manual, you have an 18 watt AC lighting alternator which uses #4414 18 watt bulb. An 18watt 12volt bulb draws 1.5 volts. If I used a 35 watt bulb on your machine I'd have to double the amperage by connecting the two leads to come up with 3amps (1.5+1.5=3). My machine has 2-3 amp leads when conneced produce 6 amps times 12 equals 72 watts of unregulated current. Way too much for a 35 watt bulb. The third wire is a ground wire. 

Good ideas with the switch. I just bought one yesterday I was going to mount today! Also, I think you're right about the vibration too, not much I can do about that. 

Darcy32171:
I'm from Saskatchewan, born in cudworth/st.Benedict. My dad ran Engele farm equipment along with 3 or 4 uncles who ran an Engele farm equipment shop around the province.


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## jengele (Nov 1, 2011)

Tuesday night we had a foot of snow, it took me 2.5 hours to snowblow. I went out at 7pm in the dark. My headlight worked great (I snipped the jumper so it was running on one 3 amp lead)! I wired up an on/off switch today, fired it up and everything still works! My last bulb didn't even last an hour.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

With your set up you could add hand warmers should you ever want to.









I goofed in that I didn't fully read the "DUAL" 3 amp charging circuit. I though you or whoever was confused when it was really me in the dark.
As for your modification of cutting the wire, shouldn't make any difference on bulb life. You likely just had a poorly constructed bulb right off the shelf.

Reason I say that is if you want to test a bulb you can take it to your battery with a jumper lead and connect it. If it lights up it's good and a car battery has 400-700+ amps. The lamps resistance (ohms) limits the amps that pass in the circuit. So having 3 amps or even 6 amps available from the system, the headlights resistance limits the actual amps going through the system. 

When that wire is connected it just allows the two circuits to split the load, each producing half, each doing half the work.

Now I have something new to research. To see if that's available or modifiable to fit my Tecumseh 10Hp 143 143 736102. I'd like to add hand warmers so I'd like to see if I can replace my charging system with one like yours and have toasty fingers


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