# Winterized?



## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Just wonder, when Lauson advertised their engines as 'Winterized', exactly what does that entails? Is it just the heater box around the carb?


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Exactly...and no air filter... logic being it's for snow, so little or no dirt/dust to worry about. MH


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Was the heater box there to protect the links and butterflies from freezing up? Mine has a label that warns against using the heater box in temps above 32F.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Not sure why that would be.? The heater box does keep linkage from freezing, also warms up the engine faster. I never take mine off on any of my other blowers. MH


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

How often would you have snow above freezing?


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

db9938 said:


> How often would you have snow above freezing?


It can happen..in late fall and late winter. October and March/April.
although usually if its above freezing and snowing, say 34 degrees, the snow is very wet and slushy, and doesnt build up thick enough to require the use of a snowblower..you dont get 6" of snow at 34 degrees..you get a thin layer of very wet slush..no snowblower required.

So it can, rarely, snow above freezing.
but using the snowblower above freezing is ever rarer..
so rare in fact, that IMO it statistically never happens.

Scot


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

db9938 said:


> How often would you have snow above freezing?





sscotsman said:


> It can happen..in late fall and late winter. October and March/April.
> although usually if its above freezing and snowing, say 34 degrees, the snow is very wet and slushy, and doesnt build up thick enough to require the use of a snowblower..you dont get 6" of snow at 34 degrees..you get a thin layer of very wet slush..no snowblower required.
> 
> So it can, rarely, snow above freezing.
> ...



It happens all the time, It snows over night when the temps are hovering in the 20's, then during the day the temp gets in the mid 30's, you need to blow snow and it's above freezing, not so uncommon. Short durations of sunlight during the day as the temps get into the mid thirties isn't necessarily enough to melt the snow, especially with the lower trajectory of the winter sun.

EDIT: After I wrote this I realized that tonight is perfect example of the situation I'm describing. It's -8 degrees right now with a 50% chance of snow, tomorrow's high is 36 degrees. So if it snows tonight folks all over the twin cities could be snowblowing in temperatures above freezing.


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## MinnTim (Jan 20, 2014)

db9938 said:


> How often would you have snow above freezing?


Like the other guys said - you'd be surprised. Get that late April Minnesota snow one night, 6" + of wet stuff, and then next day it's sunny and 50 degree's. The snow has to go..... Except you're doing it in shorts!


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I can see where those scenarios may happen, but unless you do not encounter a refreeze situation, or accumulations that the warming will not take care of, I usually don't operate the machine. I guess I am inherently lazy in that way.

The only time I might run it in t-shirt weather, is to move it from the garage to the barn. And then maybe to run the fuel tank dry.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

If you look closely at the "winterized" they not only had the carb heat box which also enclosed part of the muffler to give heat but there is also a wrap around tin shield blocking the fins of the cylinder and motorto keep heat in and snow out. It would wrap from the carb box accrossnthe crank side of the motor and behind the gas tank.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

I've seen the shield around the recoil that you mentioned. But neither of my 10ML's have it. Is it suppose to be there in '61?


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

I have seen the odd ball one you may be talking about. The opposite side of the recoil. On the crank or belt side facing the auger. Its on yours I can just barely see the edge in your picture.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

This is not mine but in this ad... 4 th pic simple tin curved shroud.

Vintage Gasoline Motor Engine TECUMSEH 4HP USA Made GAS 4HP MOTOR


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

WestminsterFJR said:


> Was the heater box there to protect the links and butterflies from freezing up? Mine has a label that warns against using the heater box in temps above 32F.


Icing although rare can occur when the humidity is high and the temperatures are just below freezing to the teens. It rarely occurs when it is really cold because the relative humidity when the air is really cold is usually very dry. I had a meteorology class back in college and we did tests to find the dew point and once an a while the dew point and the temperature converge and then you get fog or even a freezing fog can occur. The heater box simply takes some of the waste heat from the muffler and uses it to warm the air surounding the carburetor or linkages so they do not freeze up. I put in an aluminum sheild in both of my Predator 212cc snowblower repowers to prevent icing of the govenor linkages. I have not had any carburetor problems but if I did I would be getting a small piece of heet metal and making a makeshift heater box to warm the air around the carburetor.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

td5771 said:


> This is not mine but in this ad... 4 th pic simple tin curved shroud.
> 
> Vintage Gasoline Motor Engine TECUMSEH 4HP USA Made GAS 4HP MOTOR


Thanks for the visual.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> Icing although rare can occur when the humidity is high and the temperatures are just below freezing to the teens. It rarely occurs when it is really cold because the relative humidity when the air is really cold is usually very dry. I had a meteorology class back in college and we did tests to find the dew point and once an a while the dew point and the temperature converge and then you get fog or even a freezing fog can occur. The heater box simply takes some of the waste heat from the muffler and uses it to warm the air surounding the carburetor or linkages so they do not freeze up. I put in an aluminum sheild in both of my Predator 212cc snowblower repowers to prevent icing of the govenor linkages. I have not had any carburetor problems but if I did I would be getting a small piece of heet metal and making a makeshift heater box to warm the air around the carburetor.


Since cold air is denser (and more O2), wouldn't warming up the inlet air thin it out and reduce HP? Fuel would have to be dialed back to retain a 13.5:1 a/f ratio if the air is heated. Or is the engine forgiving enough to accommodate the air temperature range?


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## JerryD (Jan 19, 2014)

WestminsterFJR said:


> Since cold air is denser (and more O2), wouldn't warming up the inlet air thin it out and reduce HP? Fuel would have to be dialed back to retain a 13.5:1 a/f ratio if the air is heated. Or is the engine forgiving enough to accommodate the air temperature range?


Part of the reason for the warm air box is to keep the carb itself from turning into a block of ice. When you have cold air, especially humid cold air, being drawn into the metal carb at high velocity, it will ice up real quick and actually stop the engine.


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## msteiny (Oct 28, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> Icing although rare can occur when the humidity is high and the temperatures are just below freezing to the teens. It rarely occurs when it is really cold because the relative humidity when the air is really cold is usually very dry. I had a meteorology class back in college and we did tests to find the dew point and once an a while the dew point and the temperature converge and then you get fog or even a freezing fog can occur. The heater box simply takes some of the waste heat from the muffler and uses it to warm the air surounding the carburetor or linkages so they do not freeze up. *I put in an aluminum sheild in both of my Predator 212cc snowblower repowers to prevent icing of the govenor linkages. I have not had any carburetor problems but if I did I would be getting a small piece of heet metal and making a makeshift heater box to warm the air around the carburetor.*


Would you happen to have a picture of this shield you made up? I am thinking of making something similar for my Pred 212.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> Icing although rare can occur when the humidity is high and the temperatures are just below freezing to the teens. *It rarely occurs when it is really cold because the relative humidity when the air is really cold is usually very dry.* I had a meteorology class back in college and we did tests to find the dew point and once an a while the dew point and the temperature converge and then you get fog or even a freezing fog can occur. The heater box simply takes some of the waste heat from the muffler and uses it to warm the air surounding the carburetor or linkages so they do not freeze up. I put in an aluminum sheild in both of my Predator 212cc snowblower repowers to prevent icing of the govenor linkages. I have not had any carburetor problems but if I did I would be getting a small piece of heet metal and making a makeshift heater box to warm the air around the carburetor.


It is actually more likely to occur on a snowblower when it is really cold. Blowing snow passes by the muffler and melts; depositing itself along with more blowing snow, on the areas and linkages around the carb and the really cold air freezes it causing a glazing affect. I've used my Predator 3 times this year in temps at or around freezing without issue, I used it once when the temp was 20-25 degrees below freezing and the carb & linkages got glazed over like a donut. All four times I was using the blower while it was still snowing and moisture accumulated around the carb & linkages.


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## msteiny (Oct 28, 2013)

HJames said:


> It is actually more likely to occur on a snowblower when it is really cold. Blowing snow passes by the muffler and melts; depositing itself along with more blowing snow, on the areas and linkages around the carb and the really cold air freezes it causing a glazing affect. I've used my Predator 3 times this year in temps at or around freezing without issue, I used it once when the temp was 20-25 degrees below freezing and the carb & linkages got glazed over like a donut. All four times I was using the blower while it was still snowing and moisture accumulated around the carb & linkages.


Same thing happened to me, everything glazed over. Then my governor quit working and it went to wide open. My throttle lever did nothing, the only control I had over the speed of the engine was the choke. So after a thaw in the shop everything works fine again. I believe it was -20 out when this happened. I am of course looking into ways to fix my icing problems. I was just hoping I could find a picture of a shield I could make a put on. I do have an idea of what I want to do just didn't want to reinvent the wheel.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> Icing although rare can occur when the humidity is high and the temperatures are just below freezing to the teens. It rarely occurs when it is really cold because the relative humidity when the air is really cold is usually very dry. I had a meteorology class back in college and we did tests to find the dew point and once an a while the dew point and the temperature converge and then you get fog or even a freezing fog can occur. The heater box simply takes some of the waste heat from the muffler and uses it to warm the air surounding the carburetor or linkages so they do not freeze up. I put in an aluminum sheild in both of my Predator 212cc snowblower repowers to prevent icing of the govenor linkages. I have not had any carburetor problems but if I did I would be getting a small piece of heet metal and making a makeshift heater box to warm the air around the carburetor.





msteiny said:


> Same thing happened to me, everything glazed over. Then my governor quit working and it went to wide open. My throttle lever did nothing, the only control I had over the speed of the engine was the choke. So after a thaw in the shop everything works fine again. I believe it was -20 out when this happened. I am of course looking into ways to fix my icing problems. *I was just hoping I could find a picture of a shield I could make a put on. I do have an idea of what I want to do just didn't want to reinvent the wheel*.


 
I am making a heater box for my predator now, I want to run it before I post pics and dimesions. I am concerned about the spark plug as most flathead snow engines have the plug outside the heater box. The stock muffler has a heat sheild mounted on the plug side to protect the plug so I hope that this will hold up. Someone has to be the test rat, so I guess I raise my hand. I should be able to finish it up today with a short test run.


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## msteiny (Oct 28, 2013)

Thank you.

I wasn't thinking anything too fancy. Just something to redirect the air coming from the shroud in the front around the jug up to the top between the muffler and tank so air is blowing on the linkages to keep them thawed out. 

Looking forward to see what you come up with.

I also have a newer Craftsman blower and everything is incased in the heater box. I think the spark plug and wire will be fine on our Preds if you do build an enclosure.


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## Mr Fixit (Nov 19, 2013)

In Canada we have fine light snow. Some blowers are awful for icing. They'll work 5 minutes then need a warm building. That fine snow enters the recoil flywheel shroud then turns to water vapor. Vapor causes misfires and linkage locks plus carburetor icing. Just like we do with larger tractors we build a "heat houser" out of canvas to retain all the heat and push it towards the cab. On the snow blowers I see a cotton cloth hung from the gas tank side to the heater box. A hole is made for the pull rope. Every 15 minutes the operator reaches down and snap the cloth to drop the snow. At temperatures nearing +30 the cloth is unhooked and re-hooked on the same side allowing full air intake. This icing issue is way more active in -30 environments. This keeps the engine 100% dry.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

The finished product can be seen in this thread.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ssion/14857-heater-box-my-212cc-predator.html


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