# Noma Drive Gear Issues



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

I just picked up a Noma Performance Free Flow 9hp 27in snowblower off craigslist. The drive chain is off. The former owner said the first time it fell off he took it to the shop, they fixed it, then after three uses it fell off again, back to the shop, fix, three uses fell off again. Shop then says, "it will keep doing that and to fix it cost more than it's worth."
I do not believe this and have kept my 1960 REO [it's in the photo gallery] running for years, so I believe I can figure out what's going on and plan to get into it this weekend, but...
Does anyone know anything about Noma machines, I have never heard of them before I did a basic google search this afternoon or know where to get a manual [it didn't come with one].
Any insight about what could be causing the drive chain to jump? Any insight on what to not do? 
I have attached a couple pix from the listing [literally just unloaded it and jumped on here so haven't had time to take better ones]. If better pix would help let me know.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Should add that the engine is sound, starter, pull cord, all lines seem sound.


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Pictures of the transmission area would help. Sounds like a bushing or bearing or several are worn out allowing the axle to shift off centre and causing the chain to jump off the sprocket. Sprocket may also be worn down from this side friction and the teeth may be unable to hold the sprocket on.

I would look at all the bearings on each end of the shafts in the transmission and see if they are the problem. If the sprocket teeth are worn off, then you need to replace that, which may be a part of the axle, and possibly the chain as well, if the links are worn down and there is a lot of play in the links. You know how one thing leads to another...


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks for the insight skutflut. Once I crack it open this weekend [can't wait] I will take some pix of the drive assembly and post them.
I have been searching out a manual but have had difficulty finding anything on Noma blowers. I found a post on here regarding one [different model] but it seems he was having the same issue as I am.
Near as I have determined it is a F2794-010 but am unsure, the schematics I found of that model number seem to be in line with the machine. I really want to get my hands on some new belts [the ones currently installed look healthy but you never know] and I need shear pins, the pins were removed and replaced with machine screws and we all know what that leads to.
In any case thanks for the tips and we shall see what happens when I get it apart.


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

That machine is made by Murray, and a google search turned up the following link which might help.

Murray st Parts Diagram Index for F2794-010. 

Noma is a canadian version that was sold at Canadian Tire and probably other outlets. Belts should not be a problem. Remove the old ones and measure the outside circumference and width and you should be able to find them fairly easily. I got some belts from VBelt supply based on length and width, made with Kevlar and they fit perfectly. They were also about half the price that Sears Canada was asking, and after three weeks waiting, Sears could not fulfil the order.

When you take your photos, make them as large and hi resolution as possible,and check for good focus. Trying to eyeball alignment from small photos is tough. If you cannot upload them direct to this site, you can put them on one of the free photo sharing sites, and then put a link in here so people can link to the site with the better sized pictures. Get several angles as well so that we can see things like shafts that are not running straight and true. Close ups of sprockets will also be useful.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks again. I found that link and others to the parts manual pages, but being a purist I feel the need to continue chasing a manual if for no other reason than to keep my manual file complete on my machines.
I will take pix and update on my progress.
Thank you again for your assistance.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

A little research and actually looking at the back of the blower would have been helpful and saved us all a lot of google time.
The model number was easily accessible at the back of the machine, in my defense my own excitement got the better of me and I believe that this is the only place where others would celebrate the step from 5.5 hp 24" to a 9 hp 27".
I attached an image of the machine [though not mine, I copped it from google, if it's yours please let me know].
Thanks skutflut for your help, it is appreciated, I will update this thread as I repair the drive if anyone's interested in the progress. I didn't see a lot specific to Noma on the boards so I will update for those like me who come across one.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Took the cover off the bottom of the housing to see if I could find something obvious as to why the chain was coming off.
It appears that the shaft sprocket is out of alignment with the axle sprocket [see pic]. The axle sprocket also has a machine screw in it as opposed to a shear bolt and the parts manutal I have does not show the type of bolt that's supposed to be there. Could the bushings on either side of the axle be bad? Neither of the sprockets look bent or obviously damaged.
Any information would be helpful.
I also found a clip on the back that didn't appear to hold anything, maybe it held a tool to clear the chute at one time?


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

That bolt doesn't look like it belongs. If the sprockets don't line up, but are square to each other, the the shaft has either moved sideways, which suggests bearing or bushing, or the sprocket is in the wrong place on the shaft is unlikely if it is the correct sprocket. Your pics don't show the whole picture though, so it's hard to be more specific since I can't see all the parts. Try and post more showing shaft ends, any spacers, any angles on shafts indicating that they may not be running square to each other. Kind of need the full monty to attempt remote diagnosis.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks again skutflut.
I attached a pic showing the whole "axle" system [not sure what to call it]. Playing around with it I cannot move the "axle" that the lower, larger sprocket is attached to, if that could be an indicator of bad bushings. Was thinking it may be the bearing/retainer on the upper shaft. The upper shaft has the sprocket manufactured on to the shaft.
I am going to price the parts to see if I may as well just replace the whole works as I am going to have to remove most of it either way.
I also attached another pic of the back showing the clip I was talking about in prior post, could that have held a chute cleaner tool? _"My kingdom for an owners manual!"
_Thanks again for your help.


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

When you say you cannot more the shaft, do you mean its will not move at all, no play, no rotation, ie seized?

The shafts need some side to side play between the bushings, in the horizontal plane, but you don' t want to see much lateral play at the ends of the shaft in relation to the bushings which would indicate that the holes in the bushings have gone oval, allowing slack in the chain, and adding to misalignment. 

Where is the chain from that large sprocket now? Is it still in there just hanging around, or have you removed it? Also looks like the friction disk needs cleaning up, and possibly the friction rubber wheel might need replacing.


----------



## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

Go to the repair forum, Craftsman536.82231. That machine is very similar to your machine, and the parts diagrams will be helpful. Also go to Donnyboy73. There are some videos that will help you. Murray parts are easily available on the web. Just type in the model #.
Sid


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks Sid, I went to the craftsman manual site but that model number didn't come up Craftsman Snow Blower User Manuals Download - ManualsLib can you confirm the model number?
skutflut, to clarify, the shaft rotates no problem, but it has no lateral play. On the tire side of the axle there seems to be some play 1/4" or less.
The chain came with it and appears to be sound, nothing broken, same for both sprockets, no broken teeth. I have not mounted the chain to see if it is stretched or otherwise compromised.
Regarding the friction disc, I have never had one with this type of drive. Was thinking I should replace the friction rubber wheel. Can you clean the disc, if so, what type of cleaner is recommended, should it be greased/oiled after cleaning?


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Friction disk can be cleaned with gas, or some other non greasy solvent, no oil or grease of any kind on the surface where the rubber wheel engages the aluminum surface. 

Seems your challenge in to determine why the two sprockets in question do not line up, and solve that issue. When you find the correct parts list and exploded diagram, then you can disassemble the mechanism and see what's missing, worn out, or was incorrectly assembled during its trips to the shop. Good news is that it's really not all that complicated, and as long as there in no major damage, such as a bent frame, or rusted out frame components, then it's just a matter of reassembling things paying close attention to getting everything in the right place, checking alignment as you go, making sure nothing is binding, and everything is lubricated where it needs to be, and free of lubrication where it needs to be clean.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks again skutflut, I believe you are correct, time to disassemble and see what's not right. Everything else on the machine is perfect mechanically and I am only $80 [for the machine] into it so far [I don't price my labor]. Worst case I replace everything and I am in for a total of $150-200, to me the machine is still worth the overall cost in the end. And it provides me a reason to spend ample time in the workshop.
I am still in the dark about the clip on the back.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Ok, jacked it up and at first noticed that the drive shaft has two locations where you can put in the ring pull [see pic] and there is a heavy 1/4" of space between the wheel hub and the bushing [see pic]. Could it be at some point the drive shaft was replaced with a "one size fits all" shaft? I looked up the part per the parts drawings I found and it doesn't have optional holes at one end of the shaft [I did not remove the other side to see if it is the same Briggs and Stratton Shaft Axle 6 15 Hub 583017mA | eBay .
Would that 1/4" of slop be enough to jump the chain? The bushings seem sound though there is a lock washer in the way [see pic] any thoughts on ways to remove it would be helpful, I will do a Google/You Tube search in the mean time.
Thanks again.


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

I don't think the second hole is your problem. The axle shaft side to side play should not be controlled by the position of the wheel hub on the shaft. Any side play in the drive axle should be limited by the bearings/bushings on the ends of the axles through spacers or the shoulders of the axles, or roll pins, depending on the machine. 

If you have both wheels off the axle, do you have that 1/4 inch of side slop on the axle? That would lead me to be looking for a missing spacer/shim on the axle near the bearing. Since this machine has had previous attempts at repairing this problem, I would be wondering what the shop actually did when they worked on it, and if they did more harm than good, or did nothing at all.

That locking ring would have to be cut off, and replaced with a new one if you disassemble the unit at that end. I don't think there is any way to remove that intact and reuse it.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

skutflut, my thoughts exactly. I have to apologize in advance as I reference parts, I am not sure if I am calling them the correct name sometimes.
But, after looking at an expanded parts view of the assembly it appears that there are missing washers on both sides between the tire hub and the bushing in the frame on the drive shaft [space shown in pic above]. I believe putting those washers on, which would then shift the drive shaft 1/4" over would do the trick. It would also stop the shaft from being controlled by the wheel hub. I took off the tires and moved the lock bolt over to the left, thereby shifting the lower drive sprocket back over to the point where it was in line with the upper drive sprocket.
I am wondering the same thing about the "shop" he took it to. The exterior of the machine is pristine, no rust. And new tires, maybe they lost the washers? When I took off the housing on the bottom to access the drive chains it looked as if no one had been in there for some time. If the machine, as near as I can figure, is over 5 years old, being regularly serviced, there should have been some fingerprints or wear on the bolts, but there was none.
Anyway, I ordered the parts so I will update in a week or so after they arrive. That is, if it ever stops raining. Going to change the oil and grease the points as well. I'll post some pix when I'm done.
Again, hard to believe someone would unload a sweet machine for almost nothing because of two washers? Then again, he did buy, not one, but two [a 28" and a 22"] from the same shop that told him this machine wasn't worth the time and the parts to repair, two washers, $5.92 + s/h.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Just ran the serial number and it's a 1998 [if I converted it correctly] and to be honest, the lower area with the drive gears [again, not sure what it's called] looked like it had never been accessed, very dirty, and again the exterior of the machine was very well maintained.


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Just as a sidenote, that second hole in the drive axle allows you to move the click pin there instead of thru the wheel hub hole. This decouples the wheel from the axle and allows it to freewheel making turning the machine easier, but turns it into one wheel drive. OK in light snow, but kind of sucks in deep snow. My 1983 craftsman had the same feature, which I never used.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks again skutflut, it was actually set up like that, pin in end with wheel spinning freely. Today I replaced the spark but have decided to leave the belts as they seem to be in decent shape.
I did figure out what the clip on the bottom is, some sort of auger lever limiter or maybe at some time a lock mechanism.
Parts should arrive this week so weather permitting I will clean the friction disc, change the oil, disassemble and then reassemble the drive shaft [with washers and replacement lock washer], reinstall the drive chain, replace all shear bolts, grease all the points, and finally, at long last....
Fire it up! My workshop is in the basement of the house and I don't have a garage so I haven't started it since the evening I brought it home.
Thanks again for all of your help skutflut.
To be continued.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

That clip is a "Cam Lock" and it's used to enable one had operation. Once you have engaged the auger drive and traction handles a shaft will lock into that clip and it continues to hold the auger handle engaged until you release the drive handle at which time both handles will pop up.










That bolt in the drive axle gear is supposed to be 2.25" long so it does look wrong but it's likely the correct part.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Right on Kiss4aFrog, thanks for the info. Once I get done with the maintenance I am going to fire it up, I'll check and see if the lock system works, finding out all sorts of things about my impulse craigslist buy.


----------



## Pythons37 (Nov 9, 2012)

I have one of these. You will want to install an impeller kit, as it is awful in wet snow. It is a heavy brute. It will move a lot of snow and throw it pretty far away. Traction is excellent. Good luck with it.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks Pythons37, it seems like a brute. I don't mind heavy, but we will see, moving up from an older model Craftsman 5.5hp [and a 1960 REO 24" unknown HP] to this one. As stated earlier it was a total impulse buy from craigslist. I just wanted to get one with chute controls and well you know how that goes. Also having fun working on it as I love to tinker in the workshop. I'm going to get it running and try it out next winter, if it is to my liking I will install the impeller kit, install a new chute control cable [the one on there is pretty worn], and replace the friction wheel. I want to make sure the motor is sound before I put more hours into it.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Finally got a chance to work on it today. It started on the first pull and is an absolute BRUTE. It is very heavy and as I have both wheels connected to the drive axle it is difficult to move around and turn which is why I can see someone switching it to single wheel drive. In any case, when I went to put on the new washers I found that there were already washers installed. I believe the frame is bent out of square creating the 1/4" gap, allowing the chain to jump. After running it on the driveway today and moving it around I can see that you have to move it with some force. Hopefully by adding the additional washers I have compensated for that. Or maybe I am totally wrong, but the axle is true and the sprockets and chain are fine, hubs fine, it is the only thing I can imagine. Unless it is the wrong drive axle all together. 
Thanks Kiss4aFrog for the info on the lock function, that is indeed what it does, much appreciated. And thanks again to all for the help.
My wife can't understand why, when spring has just sprung, that I am working on a snowblower.


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

connecticut52 said:


> My wife can't understand why, when spring has just sprung, that I am working on a snowblower.


Tell her you want to be ready for next winter! I bet there is a HoneyDo list of things you have NOT done, so she should be pleased you are getting right on top of this job.

As far as the washers, do what you need to do to get the sprockets aligned, but remember to allow 5 thou slop so things don't bind and cause new problems.


----------



## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

As far as that Honeydo list goes....


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

This is the same woman who couldn't understand why I was changing the oil on the mower and sharpening the blade for it while there was still some snow in the ground. 21 years together and I still can't explain to her the concept of preventative maintenance. And if said machine doesn't work I have plenty of time to fix or replace it.
Oh well. I'll post some pix of the Noma after I get it cleaned up.
Thanks again everyone for your help.


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

connecticut52 said:


> This is the same woman who couldn't understand why I was changing the oil on the mower and sharpening the blade for it while there was still some snow in the ground. 21 years together and I still can't explain to her the concept of preventative maintenance.



I have an ace in the hole on that score. My wife is a quilter, and needed a quilter's sewing machine to satisfy her hobby. Cost about 6K (plus tax). She fully understands the need for preventative maintenance, because she got a bunch of lint and fluff and various crap gummed up in her bobbin case thing, which caused uneven stitches, (they measure those stitches in fractions of a millimeter). She called the fixit guy, and he told her to bring it in quick, because he had some time that day to do it while she waited. She was down the stairs with it, and out the door, all I saw was tracks and dust as she headed off to get it fixed. She was back in 90 minutes, with a bill for $129.00 and all defluffed and delinted. For that money, he also showed her how to clean it herself next time. She showed ME how to clean it, so guess who cleans the lint and fluff and crap now....:wacko:


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Ok, finally pulled it back out, changed out the shear bolts, greased the points, and took some pix. Took a pic of the Noma with my Craftsman 5.5 24" that I used last winter. Glad to have the new one [new to me], as you all can see it is a solid step up in equipment.
Apologies on the sideways pix, I do not know how to fix that.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Took it out again last weekend and while I was waxing i noticed that one of the bolts that hold the frame together was very loose, it was one of the top bolts which may or may not have anything to do with the original chain issue but it was loose enough that I could turn it with my fingers and had to tighten it with the socket wrench.
I do wonder if the only maintenance the shop ever did on it was to wipe the dirt off of it. I changed the oil, which probably hadn't been changed for quite some time and the drain pipe cap for the oil was jacked up. I ended up having to take off the entire assembly, if it was properly serviced every year that shouldn't have happened.
Oh well, it is serviced now, greased, waxed and waiting for winter. I will update in a few months when there is some snow on the ground.
Thank you everyone for your help and insight.


----------



## slatebeltrepair (Nov 22, 2016)

Just a quick question, when you reassembled the drive components were the sprockets still out of line? i'm working on the same snowblower and when i took the belly pan off i noticed the small gear attached to the rubber drive disc shaft was out of line to the bigger jackshaft sprocket? i also took notice that the bearings for the jackshaft are offset which would cause it to be crooked. The machine drives fine on dry ground, but if you use it in the snow it binds and wont move.


----------



## connecticut52 (Mar 8, 2015)

Got 4-6" this morning depending on where you stood in the driveway, a day I have been waiting for since early May.
Finally had a chance to take out the Noma and see what it could do. Worked very very well. It is a brute and the snow went from a soft light powder to a thick mashed potato in the hour I was out there as the temperature came up. 
Very happy with the power and control, it turned much easier than I thought once it was in the snow. I even managed to help out a few neighbors with the end of their driveways after the plow came by. Its going to take some time getting used to the distance it can throw snow as I kept putting snow on my porch and the neighbors walkway, but I don't mind the work. 
Thank you again to all who helped me this spring in my repair of this new to me machine. I really do appreciate your it and the tips you gave were extremely helpful. Knowing that it had a throttle/auger lock probably saved me a heart attack as it was one of the "new" features that I did not know about and actually had the most difficulty getting used to. It was, however, a sheer joy using it this morning and as this winter is promising to be an interesting one I am sure I will have many more opportunities.


----------



## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

GEvening CT52, Congrats on your purchase and repair. I had read this a few weeks ago, and tried to figure out why that chain would bind. Well I had a twin in the shop today, (except it was a Craftsman, 10hp and 29", exact twin), that I put an engine on. It's a clean tight machine, worth repairing. I was test driving it this afternoon, blowing some snow. I had one wheel freewheeling, as I always do during repair.....makes it easier to maneuver in my shop. After making one pass, I had to lock both wheels, moving the wheel to the out hole on the axle.......Shortly after that, BOTH wheels stopped moving-as in axle binding inside the tractor drive. Dragged it inside, stripped it down and found the chain riding on top of the spur gear. Popped the chain back in the correct position on the gear and noticed the axle had 1/4-3/8' lateral play. The exact amount of distance of open axle once the wheel is moved to the outside pin. I noticed that there was no star washer holding the axle in the correct position, therefore causing the axle play. I read that you questioned that washer on your unit,,,Did you replace it? Or even remove it during your service? I've seen them before, but thought they were put there during the original machine assembly, but they are there for a reason, to keep axle alignment and the drive chain from binding. Just thought I'd bring this up and hope you don't experience the 'chain lockup', like I did, dragging the machine 200 yards back to the shop. GLuck, J


----------



## maarrzz (Dec 25, 2020)

For what it’s worth, I have the same machine, and it recently bound up. The axle shear pins, well, sheared, and the entire axle shifted laterally. I hammered it into place, put temp pins in and went on to use it. When I was putting it back, I reversed it out of the driveway, moved the car, and when I went to get it, it refused to move. It would not even shift out of reverse?! So I dragged it in the garage and slowly went about dismantling it! I found one of the sprockets, that sits farther inside, not the one on the wheel axle, was misaligned. This was causing the chain to hit the housing just under the engine mounts. Now, with that deciphered, I am guessing this was caused due to the drive shaft pulling it in different directions and causing the misalignment when it shifted due to the missing shear pins. I can see that the inside bushing of the sprocket is attached on a rectangular box, that houses the friction plate etc... I can tell that this box needs to be squared and aligned with the housing to make sure the sprocket spins straight. The problem is I don’t know how to square it. I tried hammering it but it is braced in so many places that it hardly moves, and also all the spot welds make me nervous that too much hammering will break one of them... I am still figuring this out, plan to use a wide clamp vice (ball joint press from Advance Auto to see if I can right the misalignment of the rectangular box gently rather than hammering it... hope this helps someone else also battling this issue...


----------



## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

welcome to the SBF
i hope you noticed this thread was last posted 4 years ago. you may be better off starting a intro in the new member area asking for more up to date help to make your own repair


----------

