# Free Snowblower - Engine won't start...Help!



## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

So I recently acquired a Craftsman 27" snowblower (Model# 536.881800) with an 8hp Briggs and Stratton engine (Model # 12E114-0268-E1). I got it for free because the engine wouldn't start, but it's otherwise in excellent shape. 

Some quick background...the lady who had it claimed that she "didn't notice that the oil drain plug was missing, and ran it for the 1st time this year for about 10 minutes, then it stopped working and wouldn't start again." She said she called the Craftsman repair guy who just said that she needed a new engine. I have never worked on small engines before...I have a desk job for a living. I got this hoping to learn as I go. I am very handy and understand most of the components of small and large engines. I've done a lot of car maintenance and modifications (brakes, suspension, intake-side stuff, most anything not involving internal engine mods). I'm confident in my skill level, despite a general lack of experience on small engines.

Upon initial inspection I noticed a few things.


The oil drain plug wasn't missing..the oil FILL plug was. It did look like it was critically low on oil. Not saying that wasn't the issue, but it could've been worse if it was the drain plug.
The engine turned over very easily via the pull and electric starter. It didn't seem to be seized.
Given this, I was optimistic that I could get it running, but thus far I haven't been able to. Basically, what it does is...nothing. No sputter, no start then stall, just nothing. I've tried/checked a few things...




I first added oil and replaced the oil FILL plug. I then drained the old fuel and added fresh fuel. I tried to start it via the recoil and electric starter...still nothing.
I checked the primer bulb to make sure it was connected/working. I could hear it drawing fuel into the carb. I also unscrewed the carb jet from the bottom of the bowl and cleaned out the bowl and cleaned both holes on the jet with wire/compressed air. I reinstalled and re-primed...still nothing.
I removed the spark plug and inspected. Looked fine. I held the threads up against the block and cranked the starter. The spark looked strong. I put a teaspoon of gas into the hole, reinstalled the plug, and cranked it...nothing.
I removed the valve cover. Rockers, rods, and springs looked fine. I cranked the starter, and they appeared to move normally.
I put my finger over the spark plug hole with it out and cranked the engine...I didn't feel the pressure pushing past my finger as some threads I've read had noticed...probably not a good thing.
If I crank the electric starter, and engage the auger gear (I probably shouldn't do this, but...) I noticed that the impeller spins, but the auger doesn't appear to spin. I can't be 100% sure it doesn't stop quickly simply because I can't hold the engage lever AND see the front of the machine. I could confirm this if needed...I know it's not technically engine related.


So some thoughts...


The lack of compression in the spark plug hole would indicate that perhaps the connecting rod is busted, right? The fact that it turns over would say that it's not the piston seized (unless the piston is seized, and the rod is broken so the crankshaft turns easily. I'll eventually open the crank case to check visually.
I haven't cleaned the full carb, but putting fuel directly into the spark plug hole and not having any result would indicate that the issue is beyond the carb, right?
I've read about the flywheel key possibly shearing. I haven't checked this yet, but plan to. If this was the case, why would I still have a spark? Further, if it sheared, and the spark was firing at the wrong time, wouldn't this cause the recoil starter to pull out of my hand or could it truly cause "nothing" to happen?
I'm still a little perplexed about the possibility that the auger isn't turning but the impeller is. If this is truly the case, I'd guess the gear case is torn up...this would indicate to me that something jammed up the augers...could this ultimately cause an engine failure somehow?


OK...I'll stop with the lists. I just wanted to get all the info out there for those of you with more experience fixing these things. I'm hoping to have time do work on it more this weekend, but I wanted some thoughts to get me headed in the right direction.


If the engine is shot, I'll likely replace it with a Harbor Freight engine. The 6.5 HP one is very affordable, but 1.5HP less than the OEM 8HP B&S...not sure if that's a concern or if I should shell out the extra for the 11HP...


Thanks to all. I've learned so much from this forum already, but hoping to get some info on my specific case.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Sounds like possibly the connecting rod broke. You should be able to see the piston moving up and down if you look down the spark plug hole while trying to start it. The other thing you could do is stick a pencil down there while trying to start it. Shine a light down the hole and look for the piston.

As for the impeller and augers, the impeller turns 10 times for every 1 turn of the augers. It is probable that it isn't turning fast enough for you to notice. You could turn the impeller by hand and see if the augers turn. You could also try and turn the augers by hand. The way the gearbox is set up you should not be able to.

As for the Harbor Freight engine, I bet the 212cc will be enough for you. I went from a Tecumseh 8 HP to a 212cc Predator and had plenty of power. See this thread.
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ll-212cc-predator-have-enough-power-swap.html


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

That lack of compression would mean the piston rings are shot. Lack of oil will smoke them right quick!!! The engine still turns that is good. But you will have to tear it down for the postmortem. Then you can measure the cylinder bore to see if is worth honing or boring out.depending on the out come. A ring job or a oversized piston. A small engine shop can tell you. Aloha!!!


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## Mal (Oct 8, 2013)

With the spark plug out and the electric starter engaged, you will hear it huff and puff even if the rings are completely shot. If you hear nothing, the rod is probably broken. Sticking something in the plug hole and slowly pulling the recoil will tell you pretty quick if the piston is moving. You can get an inexpensive compression tester for about $30 dollars, that said, it may be best to just cut your losses and get the $99 harbor freight motor.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

Shryp said:


> Sounds like possibly the connecting rod broke. You should be able to see the piston moving up and down if you look down the spark plug hole while trying to start it. The other thing you could do is stick a pencil down there while trying to start it. Shine a light down the hole and look for the piston.
> 
> As for the impeller and augers, the impeller turns 10 times for every 1 turn of the augers. It is probable that it isn't turning fast enough for you to notice. You could turn the impeller by hand and see if the augers turn. You could also try and turn the augers by hand. The way the gearbox is set up you should not be able to.
> 
> ...


OK...your first comment was something I was wondering. I was looking in the spark plug hole and turning it over at one point and I didn't see anything. I expected to see the piston moving up and down. I'll check for sure when I take it apart, but it's seeming more and more like that's the issue. Also, for what it's worth, I felt and heard nothing from the plug hole when turning the engine over, indicating that the piston wasn't moving I guess.

The next question is IF the connecting rod is broken, even replacing that isn't a guarantee of adequate compression because, as POWERSHIFT93 pointed out, the rings are probably shot too...so that would mean connecting rod, AND rings and/or rebore. Ugh. 

Good to know the 10-1 gearing on the auger. I certainly CAN'T turn the auger by hand. I'll look at that in more detail later as that's a secondary issue I guess.

Also, thanks for the link on the 212cc Predator. Given the 212cc Predators are ~$90 or so with a coupon (just missed the $99.99 - 25% sale) I will probably lean that way if the rod is shot. I'd love to go with the larger one, but It's almost 3x the cost. Is it a pretty easy swap? I haven't even tried to compare the mounting holes or output shaft location/size vs. the B&S on there now. My other blower is a rust-bucket 7/22 MTD with a dual-shaft Tecumseh...I know those are close to direct drop-ins (minus the dual shaft), but I wasn't sure how B&S compared with the Predators as far as mounting one up.

Thanks to all...great forum and great help.


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## cdestuck (Jan 20, 2013)

Hurry up and tear it down!!!! Now I'm even anxious to find out whats wrong, And take pics.


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## gsnod (Sep 2, 2013)

With the advice of the collective panel here, I just put a 212 Predator engine on a Toro 824 and the bolt pattern was an exact match. Granted the shaft on the predator is 3/4 and the Tecumseh (and pulleys) are 1 inch, but I ordered a sleeve with an inner diameter of 3/4 and an outer diameter of 1 inch. Should arrive this week, and then it's time to get this blower up and running with a new engine. 



floor61 said:


> OK...your first comment was something I was wondering. I was looking in the spark plug hole and turning it over at one point and I didn't see anything. I expected to see the piston moving up and down. I'll check for sure when I take it apart, but it's seeming more and more like that's the issue. Also, for what it's worth, I felt and heard nothing from the plug hole when turning the engine over, indicating that the piston wasn't moving I guess.
> 
> The next question is IF the connecting rod is broken, even replacing that isn't a guarantee of adequate compression because, as POWERSHIFT93 pointed out, the rings are probably shot too...so that would mean connecting rod, AND rings and/or rebore. Ugh.
> 
> ...


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Put a Predator 212cc on it. The original engine is toast since there is no compression to speak of and you have no puff of air out of the spark plug hole when turning it over. Sell the electric starter on EBay for $100 and use that to pay for the Predator 212cc and bolt it on and you could make like Jackmels and sell the repowered snowblowers to people for a profit. Thanks to HF you can repower non running snowblowers and lawn mowers cheaply and make it into a side business. Years ago a replacement Tecumseh was like $400 so it was not cost effective to repower old equipment. Here is an opportunity to get a nice machine really cheap.


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

If considering an engine swap here are the key points to be aware of before you start. I'll make this a general run down as I have not looked up any specific info on your blower.

How thick is the base plate of the motors? Old motors have sheet metal bases and the mounting studs will need to be knocked out and replaced for a modern motor.

How many shafts come off of the motor? Some blowers have 2 shafts. These are not nearly as easy to swap a new motor into. It can be done however.

What size is the shaft? If the shaft is a different size from the original motor you can not use the old pulleys. This is not a hard problem to remedy, but it will add cost to the project.

Are you going from a flat head to an over head valve design? 9 times out of ten this will mean relocating the chute control rod. Usually this is not a huge deal but it's good to be aware.

The above rundown should be in a sticky somewhere. I don't care about getting credit I just think the above basic awareness should be the first step for anyone considering a first time swap. If someone took the time to add some pictures and links to the above it would be a kick but sticky.


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

OK, I looked up your blower. You have pretty much the exact same blower as mt craftsman with a slightly smaller engine. It looks like your engine is a 206cc motor. This completely answers the question I had in my other thread as to if a 212 cc motor would be enough to power my 27" blower. I now know that it will. If you have a 3/4" shaft and the shaft on the 212 cc predator is long enough to match the double pulley on your current motor a swap should be extremely easy. I say should as I have not done this swap so I don't know for sure.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

cdestuck said:


> Hurry up and tear it down!!!! Now I'm even anxious to find out whats wrong, And take pics.


It'll likely be Thursday at the earliest before I get around to tearing it down, but more likely Saturday. I unfortunately have a "day job," and unfortunately we're in the middle of our year-end close, so things are crazy busy...

I'll get to it ASAP though, I promise! And I'll take some pictures. I'm very anxious to see myself, even if it's completely trashed.


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

That's what "Sick Time" is for!!!


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> Put a Predator 212cc on it. The original engine is toast since there is no compression to speak of and you have no puff of air out of the spark plug hole when turning it over. Sell the electric starter on EBay for $100 and use that to pay for the Predator 212cc and bolt it on and you could make like Jackmels and sell the repowered snowblowers to people for a profit. Thanks to HF you can repower non running snowblowers and lawn mowers cheaply and make it into a side business. Years ago a replacement Tecumseh was like $400 so it was not cost effective to repower old equipment. Here is an opportunity to get a nice machine really cheap.


GustoGuy,

I'm very familiar with your Predator repower and the great info you've posted!  As I mentioned, prior to stumbling upon this free 27" Craftsman, I had (still have...) an MTD 22/7 with the dual-shaft Tecumseh. In my never-ending desire to tinker and mod, I was considering an engine swap on that one, and I read about all your efforts re. flipping the drive wheel assembly, etc. My biggest concern was simply the condition of my old MTD, which was literally rusting away. Now that I've got a nice clean chassis to work on, and no dual-shaft issues, it's much more appealing. Great point re. the electric starter. I'm all for parts salvaging and selling, and if I can get $100 for that starter, I'd actually MAKE a few bucks net, and have a nice blower.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

scipper77 said:


> If considering an engine swap here are the key points to be aware of before you start. I'll make this a general run down as I have not looked up any specific info on your blower.
> 
> How thick is the base plate of the motors? Old motors have sheet metal bases and the mounting studs will need to be knocked out and replaced for a modern motor.
> 
> ...


Great info...I think I should be in good shape if I go the engine swap route.

1) I'm not too concerned re. the base-plate. If the holes don't mount up perfectly, I'm sure I can fabricate some sort of mounting.
2) Only 1 shaft off the Briggs...the Tension Pulley arm for the auger does bolt up to the block though, but I think I can find a work-around if I have to for that...
3) Haven't measured, but the manual lists B&S Crankshaft Part # 699454, which says it's a 3/4" shaft...based on your other post, that's the same as the 6.5 HP Predator shaft.
4) B&S 8HP on there now is an OHV.

Seems that I should be in good shape if I go that route. If the mounting holes line up, and there's a similar hole to mount the tension pulley arm, then it might be a direct-swap. The only thing I'd lose would be the electric start capability vs. the old Briggs, but truthfully, I have that on my 22" rust bucket and I've never used it.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

OK...A little more research online...

Based on THIS, which is for a B&S 12D112 (mine is a 12E114, but shouldn't this be close?), and THIS for the Predator Engine, it looks like this should be pretty close to a direct bolt-in swap. The mounting holes look the same, as does the shaft output height.


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

floor61 said:


> Great info...I think I should be in good shape if I go the engine swap route.
> 
> 1) I'm not too concerned re. the base-plate. If the holes don't mount up perfectly, I'm sure I can fabricate some sort of mounting.
> 2) Only 1 shaft off the Briggs...the Tension Pulley arm for the auger does bolt up to the block though, but I think I can find a work-around if I have to for that...
> ...


I will be following your progress closely. I have the exact same blower as you with a different engine and am planing on doing the same swap. I have a feeling I am going to need new pulleys and you will not. I hope for both of our sake that the tension arm pulley bolts right up.

Be warned however that when you get it running the plastic chute is a real bad design. Any ice chunks and you will crack it.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

scipper77 said:


> I will be following your progress closely. I have the exact same blower as you with a different engine and am planing on doing the same swap. I have a feeling I am going to need new pulleys and you will not. I hope for both of our sake that the tension arm pulley bolts right up.
> 
> Be warned however that when you get it running the plastic chute is a real bad design. Any ice chunks and you will crack it.


I'll certainly post follow-ups here after I get into it just to pay it back to everyone who's helped thus far. 

Re. the chute...Any thoughts for a stronger replacement? Any older models with a metal chute? 

I'm already looking for ways to mod it...I've got all the parts for a DIY Impeller Kit, so I'll definitely be adding that as the gap looks to be quite large and we get a lot of slushy snow here in NJ.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

floor61 said:


> GustoGuy,
> 
> I'm very familiar with your Predator repower and the great info you've posted!  As I mentioned, prior to stumbling upon this free 27" Craftsman, I had (still have...) an MTD 22/7 with the dual-shaft Tecumseh. In my never-ending desire to tinker and mod, I was considering an engine swap on that one, and I read about all your efforts re. flipping the drive wheel assembly, etc. My biggest concern was simply the condition of my old MTD, which was literally rusting away. Now that I've got a nice clean chassis to work on, and no dual-shaft issues, it's much more appealing. Great point re. the electric starter. I'm all for parts salvaging and selling, and if I can get $100 for that starter, I'd actually MAKE a few bucks net, and have a nice blower.


Sounds good. It is nice to put a new engine in a solid machine. No dual shaft will make it easy to do. My Montgomery Wards (Gilson) was so much easier to swap engines on since you only need new pulleys and shorter belts since the Pto is lower on the new engine. The MTD was more work but worth it too since the Tecumseh was so darn difficult to start and not all that good of a runner either.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

Well, last night I just cut to the chase. I didn't even bother fiddling with the carb or the spark or the fuel supply. I took the old B&S off the blower, drained the oil I had put in it, and noticed right away that the oil had a nice metallic sheen to it. I then cracked open the cover, and, as deduced by the help of everyone here, the connecting rod was shattered into pieces. So...there's my problem. I took plenty of pictures and will try and upload them when I can...nothing too special yet, just the blower, some basic linkages, and then the blown motor. 

So...I'm pretty sure at this point I'm running over to Harbor Freight for a 212 cc Predator. I think the swap should be pretty straight-forward. I also think that the aforementioned idler pulley and belt guide that bolt to the engine actually use the shaft PTO mounting holes, so I would suspect the new engine will have the same holes. The mounting base has 8 holes in total, so I also think you can overpower should anyone want to try the larger Predator engine...just speculating here as I haven't measured anything up. 

One additional question for you guys...in an effort recoup (or even make) money on this thing, GustoGuy recommended selling off the electric starter...to take that even further, does it make ANY sense to repair the old B&S? What kind of work goes into replacing a busted con rod? I would think that the con rod itself is straightforward, but looking at the crankshaft, there's some grooving where the rod connected to the shaft, and I haven't even pulled the head to see how the cylinder wall looks...is it usually the case that you have to do major resurfacing and possibly re-boring to make it useable again? Is it worth it?

Pictures to come when I get a free moment at work...


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

You just have to know what to look for. When rods break they often hit the wall of the cylinder doing damage. If the rod did not do any damage there and you can clean up the mating surface on the crank you have a chance that you only need to replace the rod. I will warn you that I have a buddy who did just this with the rod on an old riding mower and the new rod went a couple of hours before it too shattered. That connection sees a lot of force and friction and if not perfect it will eat itself up.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

Thanks scipper77. Given how little time I have to tinker these days, I'm thinking I'll just part it out and sell it rather than add it to the ever-growing list of projects I'd like to do...


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

So as promised, here are some pictures up until this point....

Here it is. As previously noted, I got this thing for free off of a local lady. She said that somehow the oil drain plug was gone, and it was run dry, and she thought it needed a new engine...This is how it looked AFTER I took off most of the protective plastic cladding, the valve cover, discharge chute crank, muffler, spark plug, and some of the other misc. parts that were in the way...pardon the mess in the garage. It's much cleaner in the summer...









So before I completely removed the engine, I took a shot of the driveshaft output. I've already removed the main drive pulley for this shot. The upper-most pulley closest to the engine, is the idler pulley. The arm for this pulley bolts directly to the engine. I think the engine has 4 bolt holes for the PTO. the lower left is used for this pulley, and the upper 2 are the bolts you can see still attached. They hold on both a heat shield and a belt guide. I think most engines will have similar holes. Just above the belt guide you will see my makeshift oil drain plug...I was impatient waiting for my replacement plug to come, so I made one from a plastic/rubber wine cork. Crude but it worked for what I was doing at the time.









So here's the mounting plate for the engine once I removed it from the blower. My engine used these 4 stud holes, but it looks like there are other stud holes for the possible use of different engines. Plus, it almost looks like there's some sort of slide track that could hold other mounts as well...honestly not sure, but I think it'll work for whatever I replace the engine with.









So I crack open the crank case, and this is what I see...



























Needless to say, no amount of fiddling with the plug, carb, or starter would fix that! So it's on to the replacement phase. I need to schlep on over to the local Harbor Freight, which is 40 minutes away, and hope they have the 212 cc Predator in stock. I believe the below parts are all I'll really need to salvage from the old engine

Basically, the main drive pulley and bolts that held it on, and the idler pulley, bracket, and tension spring (the other end of which connected to a gap in the frame). Assuming the bolt holes line up, and these parts bolt onto the HF Engine, it should take me a whopping 15-20 minutes to get it hooked back up again. I'll post more once I get to that point...









Oh, side-note...what is this wire? It was sticking out of my B&S. I'd assume it's an alternator output for lights, but I just wasn't sure as it wasn't mentioned in the manual.


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## Mal (Oct 8, 2013)

Ooofa, that's ugly. It spun a bearing, not just broke a rod. It probably spun, heated, siezed, then broke the rod and connecting rod cap.

That engine is not worth repairing.

I repowered an MTD log splitter with one of those HF 212CC motors and after two years sitting outside under a tarp, it still starts on the first pull. All that and it's more powerful than the original motor. You won't be disappointed.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I would also guess that wire is for a light.

One issue you might have is the bolts in the front of the engine for the pulleys might be different threads. Not a huge deal though as the manual has a diagram that shows the bolt sizes of all those things.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Shryp said:


> I would also guess that wire is for a light.


Add the lighting stator to the list of items you can sell to recoup the cost of the new HF motor.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

Mal said:


> Ooofa, that's ugly. It spun a bearing, not just broke a rod. It probably spun, heated, siezed, then broke the rod and connecting rod cap.
> 
> That engine is not worth repairing.
> 
> I repowered an MTD log splitter with one of those HF 212CC motors and after two years sitting outside under a tarp, it still starts on the first pull. All that and it's more powerful than the original motor. You won't be disappointed.


Thanks. Since I'm a novice, what did you see in the pictures that made you note that it spun a bearing? Was it the grooves on the crank?

Time to start parting out that old B&S and dusting off my e-bay account I guess...


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

Shryp said:


> I would also guess that wire is for a light.
> 
> One issue you might have is the bolts in the front of the engine for the pulleys might be different threads. Not a huge deal though as the manual has a diagram that shows the bolt sizes of all those things.


OK. I was pretty sure that was what it was, but the manual made no reference to lighting. I hooked a multi-meter up to it and when I spun the electric start, it generated a few volts, so I figured it had to be some kind of alternator output. 

Re. the bolts...good point. If that's my biggest problem, I'm in good shape.


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## Mal (Oct 8, 2013)

floor61 said:


> Thanks. Since I'm a novice, what did you see in the pictures that made you note that it spun a bearing? Was it the grooves on the crank?
> 
> Time to start parting out that old B&S and dusting off my e-bay account I guess...


Yeah, those nasty grooves on the crank and the bulge near the oil journal. It should be pretty much smooth and you shouldn't be able to feel any grooves if you run your finger across it. It should feel smooth even if there is some visible scoring. 

If the piston seizes in the sleeve due to lack of lubrication, you could end up in the same state it's looks at right now but usually you wouldn't see all that damage to the crank. Anything is possible when these come apart.

Is the piston still stuck up in the bore?


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

Mal said:


> Yeah, those nasty grooves on the crank and the bulge near the oil journal. It should be pretty much smooth and you shouldn't be able to feel any grooves if you run your finger across it. It should feel smooth even if there is some visible scoring.
> 
> If the piston seizes in the sleeve due to lack of lubrication, you could end up in the same state it's looks at right now but usually you wouldn't see all that damage to the crank. Anything is possible when these come apart.
> 
> Is the piston still stuck up in the bore?


I can definitely feel the grooves on the crank. 

The piston is still up in the bore. I only had about 45 minutes to look at it last night, and my goal was to see if something inside broke or if it could still be air/fuel/spark, so once I saw the connecting rod shattered, I didn't do much else. I haven't even tried pushing on the piston to see if it will move, but truthfully, given the reason for the damage as noted by the lady who gave it to me (run w/o oil), I wouldn't be surprised if it's seized up in there too. Not worth my time to really look much further given the cost of a new engine, and the apparent recoverability of the cost by parting this B&S out.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

The block could be a salable item. Just food for thought. 

And another suggestion, screen capture the HF motor mounting diagram, then scale it up to to match inch for inch and use it as a template. It might take a few minutes of computer time, but it will speed up mounting it. From the looks of it, you'll have some options from the factory.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

You will really like the HF Predator 212 CC engine. From the looks of the mounting areea on the snowblower it will mount up easily and you have options too. I have 3 HF Predator engines and all 3 run great. You will need to slightly increase the size of the main jet it is an emmission engine so it will run lean at temps below 40 degrees Fahrenheit


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

So my wife went wedding dress shopping with a friend who is getting married, leaving me to work on this on Saturday...

Long story short...the HF 212 cc Predator engine is a direct drop-in replacement for the OEM Briggs and Stratton on my 27" Craftsman blower. I had to do 2 things to make it right...I had to SLIGHTLY enlarge the front left bolt hole on the engine block. Literally, maybe take 1/8" of metal away to get the bolt to slide in. I also had to buy a 1-1/4" long 5/16" fine-thread bolt to hold the OEM pulley on the Predator shaft. That's it. It took me longer to unbox and put oil and fuel in it than it did to put it on. I reused the PTO bolts to hold on the idler pulley, and the belt guide. The bolts off the B&S were the same for the PTO bolts, so I could reuse those. 

The Predator engine fired right up on the first pull. I'll confirm what some have said that it does seem to vibrate a bit, but it ran hard. Some minor surging while idling, but I think, as noted, that's a carb thing...I have no clue how to enlarge the jet to fix this, but I'll take a look into how to do it. 

It seems plenty powerful. If I put it in 6th gear and engage the drive quickly, it'll pop a big wheelie. Kind of fun...Oh, and I mentioned that I wasn't sure if there were issues with the auger...there aren't. It's fine. I also put a home-made impeller kit on it, and the engine powered through the added resistance of the blades scraping the inside of the housing. I ran it that way for a few minutes to wear them down some. What a horrible noise, but it gets better. 

Sorry for the rambling. In summary:
-Remove old engine
-Salvage main drive pulley and washer, idler pulley bracket and bolt, and belt guide and bolt.
-Buy (1) 1-1/4" long 5/16" fine-thread bolt 
-slightly enlarge forward left bolt opening on the engine (may not be needed for all)
-Mount new engine
-Reinstall main drive pulley using purchased bolt, and idler pulley and belt guide using old bolts.
-Start blowing.

Again, more pictures coming, though nothing too exciting. I'm looking forward to trying it out today...it's dumping, and I'm leaving work after a 10-11 meeting...supposed to get 10 inches here, so should be a good test!


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> You will really like the HF Predator 212 CC engine. From the looks of the mounting areea on the snowblower it will mount up easily and you have options too. I have 3 HF Predator engines and all 3 run great. You will need to slightly increase the size of the main jet it is an emmission engine so it will run lean at temps below 40 degrees Fahrenheit


Gustoguy,

Can you explain how to do this? It surges a bit at idle, so I'm guessing that's the cause. I'll google it as well, but I wasn't sure if there was anything specific for the HF Predator that I needed to keep in mind.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

To enlarge my main jet I used a torch tip cleaning file set. I got it at walmart for like $5. Only the smallest one would fit and it was a pretty tight fit and I did end up mutilating it. Actually, I could think the rough part of the file ever made it, I think I just scored it with the smooth tip.

Remove the nut holding the bowl on then take a flat head screwdriver and remove the screw that is in the same hole as that bolt was in. That brass screw is the jet that needs enlarged slightly. Be careful that the emulsion tube doesn't fall out when you unscrew the jet.

I believe Gustoguy used some floss and some type of polishing compound on his.

Mine also had a small piece of metal in the idle jet on top. To remove that you remove the throttle idle stop screw and then pry the plug out from under it.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

floor61 said:


> Gustoguy,
> 
> Can you explain how to do this? It surges a bit at idle, so I'm guessing that's the cause. I'll google it as well, but I wasn't sure if there was anything specific for the HF Predator that I needed to keep in mind.


 It is an emission engine that is jetted correctly "leaner" for summer use more than for winter use. As it gets cold the air gets denser and the jetting needs to be increases because the engine will take in a denser or heavier amount of air with each stroke and the fuel/air ratio will become a bit low and the engine will surge when this happens. Richen it up just a tad and it will run great when it is cold. I did this with a product called super floss and polishing compound. I ran it through the main jet many times and cleaned it up with carburetor cleaner and it runs great. I enjoy all 3 of my Predator 212cc engines and I have modified the Main jet on all 3 engines too and the engine works even better now then it did before.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> It is an emission engine that is jetted correctly "leaner" for summer use more than for winter use. As it gets cold the air gets denser and the jetting needs to be increases because the engine will take in a denser or heavier amount of air with each stroke and the fuel/air ratio will become a bit low and the engine will surge when this happens. Richen it up just a tad and it will run great when it is cold. I did this with a product called super floss and polishing compound. I ran it through the main jet many times and cleaned it up with carburetor cleaner and it runs great. I enjoy all 3 of my Predator 212cc engines and I have modified the Main jet on all 3 engines too and the engine works even better now then it did before.


So I get the air/fuel mixture concept. Similar (but in the reverse) of why you lean out the mixture in a small plane as you gain altitude (air is less dense up high, so you need less fuel)...Now as for the super floss thing...I googled "Super Floss," and I get an Oral-B floss brand. Is this what you meant?  A DENTAL floss that you then added a polishing compound to? Or is there some kind of other "Super Floss" specifically for this? 

It's interesting that the surging is mainly at idle...it didn't seem to surge under load at all. That thing is a total beast. It cut through a plow drift as tall as the intake...it bogged some, but never stalled. Amazing engine. I cleared my driveway 2x in this most recent NJ snow storm. I don't know if my old blower would've handled it, at least not without stalling a lot. 

One more question - The old blower engine had a lot of plastic cladding that seemed to protect various parts from water and blowing snow. This one doesn't...should I attempt to fabricate some sort of engine shield to help keep it dry or does it matter?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

floor61 said:


> One more question - The old blower engine had a lot of plastic cladding that seemed to protect various parts from water and blowing snow. This one doesn't...should I attempt to fabricate some sort of engine shield to help keep it dry or does it matter?


Some do and some don't. I chose not to and also left the air filter in it. So far no issues.


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

floor61,

with some google sleuthing, i found that the stock jet size on a predator is .028

i went up two jet sizes to .032 as i'm not running an air filter and it ran great when the temp was right around the freezing mark. the temperature is in the teens in my region this week and i'll report back on how it runs now that i'm able to test it in even colder temperatures(i added the larger jet even before i installed the engine on the snowblower). 

the jet was $5.60 with shipping(or $9.25 for two with shipping), at those prices it wasn't worthwhile for me to fiddle with the stock jet.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

floor61 said:


> So I get the air/fuel mixture concept. Similar (but in the reverse) of why you lean out the mixture in a small plane as you gain altitude (air is less dense up high, so you need less fuel)...Now as for the super floss thing...I googled "Super Floss," and I get an Oral-B floss brand. Is this what you meant?  A DENTAL floss that you then added a polishing compound to? Or is there some kind of other "Super Floss" specifically for this?
> 
> It's interesting that the surging is mainly at idle...it didn't seem to surge under load at all. That thing is a total beast. It cut through a plow drift as tall as the intake...it bogged some, but never stalled. Amazing engine. I cleared my driveway 2x in this most recent NJ snow storm. I don't know if my old blower would've handled it, at least not without stalling a lot.
> 
> One more question - The old blower engine had a lot of plastic cladding that seemed to protect various parts from water and blowing snow. This one doesn't...should I attempt to fabricate some sort of engine shield to help keep it dry or does it matter?


I made a aluminum sheild that I put around the edge of the engine gas tank to keep snow and Ice out of both engines govenors. I also ran thread through the primary idle jet on the MTD only. I usually do not let the engine idle much in very cold weather to I left the Gilson one stock. I did enlarge the main jet on both however and they both work great even in very cold weather.


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## floor61 (Dec 16, 2013)

db130 said:


> floor61,
> 
> with some google sleuthing, i found that the stock jet size on a predator is .028
> 
> ...


Do you happen to have a link to where you purchased this jet? At $9.25 shipped, I'd rather just pay for a new one than fiddle with the old one. 

I haven't forgotten about pictures...I've been absolutely buried at work and haven't had a second to upload the pictures.


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## woodtick007 (Apr 9, 2011)

GustoGuy said:


> Sounds good. It is nice to put a new engine in a solid machine. No dual shaft will make it easy to do. My Montgomery Wards (Gilson) was so much easier to swap engines on since you only need new pulleys and shorter belts since the Pto is lower on the new engine. The MTD was more work but worth it too since the Tecumseh was so darn difficult to start and not all that good of a runner either.


Do you remember the part numbers for pulleys and belts u purchased for your Montgomery Wards (Gilson) engine swap?


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## BeerGhost (Dec 17, 2013)

*Jet drills*

Get a set of drill bits #61-80 and a pin vice. Very useful to "tune" the new lean running engines. Look ebay or amazon not that expensive.


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## kmarrocco (Nov 22, 2020)

Hello,
I just picked up this same model snowblower (Craftsman 536.881800) with engine 12E114-0268-E1. The lady who I got it from said she got it as a gift years ago and used it for 2-3 seasons. Then she changed the oil in it and at some point later, the oil plug came off and fell out. The engine seized and she had it repaired, but it never really ran the same after. So it sat unused for several years until now.  I put some gas in it and it starts up, but it doesn't seem to run right. On choke, it runs and then when I switch it to run it sounds like it runs at much higher rpms. When I engage the drive it sort of sputters and sometimes stalls. I am wondering if it may be just a simple carb/control thing or if it may just be easier to swap the engine with a 212cc Predator (since I don't know the history on this engine) like the other poster did. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Might want to start a new thread .. this one is like 7 years old ....


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## kmarrocco (Nov 22, 2020)

oneacer said:


> Might want to start a new thread .. this one is like 7 years old ....



I know it is old, but doesn't the thread go to the top of the list when a reply is made?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

kmarrocco said:


> I know it is old, but doesn't the thread go to the top of the list when a reply is made?


yes but you confuse the crap out of members because they will be mixing your info up with the original posters 3 pages stuff. this is why you should start a new thread that focuses on your snowblower only and not on someone elses who may have had a different issue.


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

crazy and the oneacer are right, reopening a long dead thread that is goggled up confuses the members, please check the dates of the last post so not to cause any confusion 

your other post has been approved from moderation,


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## CO Snow (Dec 8, 2011)

And the original poster hasn’t been back in 6 yrs.


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