# OK to slam HSD in reverse?



## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

With the hydrostatic drive units (HSS1332ATD) is it normal functionality not to pause as I go from full speed ahead, fast down into reverse, and then back again without briefly pausing at stop? Does it matter? I imagine this is normal operation in actual use.


I realize this may be a ridiculous question, but as I look out the window at clean blacktop, I'm trying to imagine the machine in actual use and I'd like to properly take care of it when we finally get the 2 foot snowfall I'm expecting in 2017!


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## alphaboy123 (Oct 27, 2016)

I myself would be cautious as not to cause a possible bad situation but thats me. I have a huge driveway and broke my Honda just before a big snowfall. My wife was not a happy camper when I had to take out the shovels.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## grabber (Nov 28, 2015)

Isnt this why we have hydrostatic transmission.... running full blast, shifting backward, forward... that's what make hydrostatic transmission a good thing. 
Might be wrong here.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

It's no different than the zero turn mowers are - all you are doing is controlling a valve which directs the pressure of the fluid which drives the trans one way or the other. Your not hurting anything - you just changing direction of the pressure.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

Slamming back into reverse was a big no no for the older HS models as the drive pin in the driveshaft would shear off due to the abuse and the design. 

In the new HSS model HSTs the drive wheels are connected to the driveshaft using chains/sprockets. There may not be a drivepin to shear off in this case but there still are gears within the HST that run the main drive shaft that might not like the idea of getting slammed back and forth. 

I have a 2007 John Deere ZTR that has one main Hydro pump that runs the hydro motors on each wheel, this set up is almost bullet proof when it comes to dependability. JD later switched to enclosed hydro pump/motors for each wheel, the same design that honda has in the HSS HST. These later models are known to fail due to premature failure of the gears and the gear shavings getting into the hydro pump. 

SO, short story long, I'd advise on just taking it easy on the HST to avoid any chance of damaging the gears within the HST.


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## grabber (Nov 28, 2015)

before engaging the transmission to the reverse (from full forward), it will find the neutral, then get into reverse... (ball bearing opening oil path one way and closing the other way) how slow do we need to move the direction stick... I assume nobody really slam it into reverse, but a normal shifting from forward to neutral to reverse (none stop) is something that should not damage the tranny at all.... this is why hydrostatic is so popular IMO


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

alphaboy123 said:


> I myself would be cautious as not to cause a possible bad situation but thats me. I have a huge driveway and broke my Honda just before a big snowfall. My wife was not a happy camper when I had to take out the shovels.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


As a farmer...I have a backup for anything that I depend on, harvest equipment, tractors, pumps etc. My motto is two is one, one is none. Time for a backup snowblower......or two!


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## Bjowett (Dec 6, 2016)

I never slammed the lever on my old 828, but moved it quickly back and forth in repetition an untold amount of times while working machine VERY hard. I also run Amsoil synthetic tractor hydraulic fluid in there... as working like this creates a ton of heat. 20 years produced a few sheared drive wheel pins, but no other driveline issues.

As for the HSS Hydro Gear SST unit, it is unproven. 

Cranman can preach it, redundancy saves the day all too often.


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## ZOMGVTEK (Sep 25, 2014)

I wouldn't physically 'slam' the lever, but I don't see any issue with moving it very quickly. I rock it forward to reverse very quickly, many times, when I use it. I don't see how doing it very slowly would make any appreciable difference. So long as you're not trying to get the lever from one end to the other at superhuman speed, or impacting it with a hammer very hard, its unlikely this is going to wear it any faster than moving very slowly would.

However, I run my machines very hard and acknowledge the possibility of failure. If you're the type that breaks out the shovel 9/10 times it snows, probably just do it super slow if that gives you peace of mind.

And yeah, two of them isn't a bad thing. Having spare parts on hand for anything that could break is very inefficient if you're only servicing one unit. Get two and spares are not a big deal.


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## mrfixit (Dec 3, 2016)

Why do it?


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## Kjf71 (Dec 11, 2016)

I would see no reason to do it . The amount of money spent for these machines , why risk it ? What's the alternative ? You would be grabbing a shovel next . 
I would much rather take a few minutes more to do the job then to have a broken machine/back .


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

mrfixit said:


> Why do it?


Isn't that one of the main advantages of a hydrostatic transmission? The ability to shift speeds and direction on the fly.. If there is no advantage to them, why would Honda use them? They're more complicated to engineer and build and MUCH more expensive for us as consumers to buy.

This is what is printed on honda.ca

_"The variable speed hydrostatic transmission features a single lever for *quick switching between forward and reverse*, and for accurate adjustment of ground speed without affecting auger rotation speed". _


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## mrfixit (Dec 3, 2016)

Marlow said:


> Isn't that one of the main advantages of a hydrostatic transmission? The ability to shift speeds and direction on the fly.. If there is no advantage to them, why would Honda use them? They're more complicated to engineer and build and MUCH more expensive for us as consumers to buy.
> 
> This is what is printed on honda.ca
> 
> _"The variable speed hydrostatic transmission features a single lever for *quick switching between forward and reverse*, and for accurate adjustment of ground speed without affecting auger rotation speed". _


I'm new to snow blower ownership, know nothing about this type of transmission. All I do know is I don't slam anything on my machinery. Everyone has their own way of doing things.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

I knew the term "slam" would sound violently aggressive and careless. Maybe it's a bad portrayal of actual use.


It was an abbreviation for "moving from full forward to full reverse without pausing." In reality, the rocking back and forth of the lever will see various action, ranging from whiplash-fast to incontinent-old-geezer-on-a-walker slow.


I wonder what conditions are expected by the manufacturer. The very nature of full reverse in a hurry would tend to knock one on his ars if it were more than walking speed, so it can't be too extreme.


In the beginning, with a new machine, one might tend to baby that lever. After your fifth driveway in one day, I can imagine being a bit more hurried with the lever. While "slamming" might sound extreme, you get the gist.




mrfixit said:


> I'm new to snow blower ownership, know nothing about this type of transmission. All I do know is I don't slam anything on my machinery. Everyone has their own way of doing things.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

I see no harm in it but if you wanna drive it like you stole it .


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

I'm no expert in hydro trannys, but I would think there's a sweet spot here. Backing off just a little in terms of aggressiveness with the lever would put significantly less stress on the drive train. 

Would it hold up to constant slamming? Possibly? But these are big heavy machines and I'd think at some point something is going to wear out and give.

So far I've only driven mine around a bare driveway. My plan is to use it for what it's good at but try to respect momentum in the process. Be smooth and efficient, but not jerky.. if that makes any sense.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

mrfixit said:


> I'm new to snow blower ownership, know nothing about this type of transmission. All I do know is I don't slam anything on my machinery. Everyone has their own way of doing things.


Of course, nothing wrong with being cautious. I am just saying that they are marketed to do just what the OP said. 

Do you come to a stop every time you adjust your speed?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*With Hydros you can double clutch gear jam on those all you want. what do think is used on those skid steers. they get beat on like a red headed step child out there in fields of glory.:icon-deadhorse:*


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Been using Honda's first generation hydrostatic on my HS828 since 1991, between 30 - 50 hours a year – depending on snowfall (lake effect).

Never had a hydro trans failure, but a couple of years ago started to see a dark streak in the reservoir, then the 828 wouldn't stay in neutral without a lot of finessing the handle. 

I used a turkey baster and sucked out as much dark fluid as I could see, then I would top off with fresh, run the blower up and down the drive, a little more dark would show up, rinse and repeat a few times. Sucked up about 3/4 of a quart or so.

It's not perfect staying in neutral, but a lot better then before. Not sure what I may have to do, but next Summer I think I'll tear into the right transmission – thanks a whole bunch to JnC, http://tinyurl.com/o7osc7v and then I'll check and probably at least replace the hydro shaft seals, then do a proper fluid change and bleed (on the bench).

I've never babied shifting, but never slammed it regularly, Sometimes I've had to do some real quick changing and almost got nocked back a couple of times if I've been on uneven ground (a lot of that here).

So far so good.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

I think JnC said it best in post 5: *"I'd advise on just taking it easy on the HST to avoid any chance of damaging the gears within the HST."*


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

When I said _"...next Summer I think I'll tear into the right transmission"_ I didn't mean to say that I thought the dark hydro fluid was caused by the right transmission, just that I'm going to do some maintenance on it anyway, so I may as well look into the hydro trans.

I've been getting some jumping around of the right side track, almost as if there was ice built up on one of the drive wheels (technically, track roller and track sprocket). Could be a bushing or bearing.


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