# 208cc 6.5 HP vs 212cc 8HP? PowerSmart DB765124 blow out sale



## snow2345ffs (Dec 20, 2015)

*the short version (main question I'm asking):*

The powersmart has a 208cc LCT 6.5HP OHV engine. Compare to a 212cc 8HP OHV predator or something, is there any advantage of the 1.5HP or is it really only 4cc more is the difference?

*the long version:*

About to jump all over this:

PowerSmart 24 in. 208 cc Two-Stage Gas Snow Blower-DB765124 - The Home Depot

I just bought a used 8HP for around $225 but it's older and doesn't run so great but I am going to tune it up a bit today but I still would rather have a brand new machine for $200 more and shipped free. 

This Powersmart has a single shaft motor which means it's very easy to change out to a predator later down the road or right away vs a dual shaft configured machine you'll have to buy separate shaft extensions and possibly new pulleys and a trail and error of a new length V belt plus the housing cover for the pulleys might not fit if you extend the single shaft out to fit two pulleys. 


The powersmart has a 208cc LCT 6.5HP OHV engine. Compare to a 212cc 8HP OHV predator or something, is there any advantage of the 1.5HP or is it really only 4cc more is the difference?

I also like that the handles fold down with thumb knobs and it's pretty light at 160lbs I can probably just push it up my truck ramps to transport instead of having to drive it up like the older heavier 8HP I have because driving up wet icy ramps is sketchy. I would have to remove a cotter pin probably real quick though to remove the chute control spiral rod to fold the handles. 


So far I found this video of it and at the 2:17 mark, it looks like it has a metal impeller and not a plastic one so I can install an impeller kit on it. Looks like metal with weld points but I am going to double check with powersmart amerisun to make sure it's metal. Of course it's made in China. Toro is made in Mexico now. I think I trust China manufacturing more than Mexico. It' should be just fine. 









I don't see how you can go wrong with this. Buy spare shear pins right away and if you take care of it, you should only ever need to change the shave scraper plate and the skid shoes years from now. The LCT engines get great reviews and are used on Husqvarna and Ariens and other snowblowers. As mentioned, you can easily swap it out for a predator too.
2 year warranty. Powersmart doesn't have nearly as many warranty repair centers as something like Toro but I have two within about 45 mins from me. I doubt I'll even need warranty service though. 

I know almost every time powersmart comes up on these forums it kind of gets bashed but I'm pretty much set on this one. Really just asking how it is 208cc but only 6.5 HP vs 212cc predator is 8HP. 


"do not change speed when machine is moving forward or reverse" is written on the handle. I just hope this doesn't mean the transmission is like a plastic gear lawn mower trans and possibly the snowmaster trans which can strip out easily. The drive system most blowers use is a friction disc and a rubber wheel but there are gears also and of course you shouldn't change while it's moving to prevent stripping but I haven't seen this warning on any machines. Also the powersmart has reverse and I don't think the mower kinds or the snowmaster are capable of going in reverse so I would assume this uses a regular friction wheel drive system but I will double check when I get the parts diagram emailed to me from amerisun.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

The 212cc Predator is a 6.5hp also.

6.5 HP (212cc) OHV Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine EPA

If price is what is driving your decision than getting this brand new for $400 is a good deal. You know what you're getting and that's the important thing.

.


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## snow2345ffs (Dec 20, 2015)

oh, duh, thanks
but I guess it's the slightly better of the two 208cc LCT engines listed here because they are both 208cc but one is 

5.5hp 4 kW @ 3450 rpm 5.4 hp /​ 4.03 kW 

and the other is 6.3 HP 4.7 kW @ 3600 rpm 6.3 hp /​ 4.7 kW

not that I know what that means besides the RPM but one is slightly higher.


and this snowblower is listed as 6.5hp LCT
cc to torque to hp Conversion Update! - MovingSnow.com

wonder if the 301cc 8hp predator will fit this machine but 212cc predator is the go-to repower engine and NJ doesn't get crazy snow so it should be fine. thanks


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

six of one half a dozen of another. Not much if any difference between the two engines as far as power output is concerned. I have used quite a few of the 6.5hp predators and they are fine on any 24" machine. I have an 11hp on a 26 but it is a little overkill.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Why buy a cheap $400 brand new machine only to put a 8hp Predator on it ?? By the time you're done all you have is a $640+ into a cheap machine and likely no warranty. You've had to find some odd parts and likely new belts to complete it and maybe you can get $100 back if you sell the engine but then again why buy yours for $100 if someone can go to HarborFreight and get one 4cc's bigger with a warranty for $100 on sale ??

Why not buy something older, stronger and put the 8hp predator on it for the prince of the cheap new one on sale (300 engine/100 used Ariens, Toro, ...).

Any Predator, 6.5, 8, 13 will fit almost any machine with a little coaxing.

With a four/two speed selection I'd be 99% positive it's a friction drive.
I don't like the fact that HomeDepot sells it but doesn't stock it or work on it. They simply take the order and the factory (Amerisun) sends one to you or the store. You can't actually go take a look at it.

Most important is trying to figure out if parts for this machine will be available in 3,5, ... years or if Amerisun will even be in business ?? Do they manufacture or just import the machine ?? That's why people are skeptical of the brand.


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## snow2345ffs (Dec 20, 2015)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Why buy a cheap $400 brand new machine only to put a 8hp Predator on it ?? By the time you're done all you have is a $640+ into a cheap machine and likely no warranty. You've had to find some odd parts and likely new belts to complete it and maybe you can get $100 back if you sell the engine but then again why buy yours for $100 if someone can go to HarborFreight and get one 4cc's bigger with a warranty for $100 on sale ??
> 
> Why not buy something older, stronger and put the 8hp predator on it for the prince of the cheap new one on sale (300 engine/100 used Ariens, Toro, ...).
> 
> ...



true, the 301cc predator is $240 and the 212cc is only $120 or $99 on sale. I dunno if the 301cc goes on sale though. 
%20-%25 off Coupons usually don't work for predators. It says it right on them you can't buy engines but some people had luck. I was definitely thinking about selling the new engine right away and putting the 301cc on it and the engines do sell on ebay for like $125 net profit if not more. Some people just rather shop online that go to the store or they don't have a HF near them or they don't want to or know about customizing the heater box to make the predator work well for snow.
I think 301 might be overkill but I am kind of trying to be prepared for everything. And like you said all that changing belt sizes and stuff but it's nice to know I can change the engine to a single shaft if I ever blow it up but I really doubt I'll blow it up, if I do, it's LCT's fault for being a crap engine but they get the good reviews so I should be fine. 

I'm not finding anything for much less if at all the same price for a used 8HP vs getting this and selling the engine for a 301cc predator, plus like I mentioned about ease of handle folding and I don't want it wider than 24" so my choices are pretty slim in the used market. 


I'm also really wary about buying a used machine greater than 5HP. Because in NJ, you don't really need more than 208cc (6.5-8HP). A lot of people sell their 5HP to get something bigger but if they are selling something bigger, there could be something wrong. I don't think many homeowners change the break-in oil after the first few hours of use (or however long it's supposed to be. I will make sure to do it right though if I buy a new machine). And to save $100 or less to get a 208cc or 8HP used, I would expect the auger gear might be stripping or something. The used 8HP I just bought, they were moving south so I figured it was a steal but it doesn't run so great now that I took it home, and the thing is pretty old, gears etc could go soon, I never used it in snow yet either.



You're right though, good point that parts might not be available in 10 years. I wish amerisun luck though, it's basically as good if not better than a troy bilt or craftsman etc and the prices are amazing. Worst case scenario if I strip the auger gear or something and can't track down a replacement of same-fit, I'd part the whole thing out on ebay, someone would buy the parts and I'd make probably all my money back. 
I should be able to get a universal tire if I ever break one of those.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm reading part of the op and it seems that you are comparing a toro master with a machine with gears when you should be looking at something like a toro powermax 724 for comparison. as far as trusting chineese manufacturing goes where the frames, buckets, and gears are concerned I don't trust chineese manufacturing. I have more trust in the engines only because most are or were Honda clones and some were actually licensed through Honda. some may not like the fact that toro moved snowblower production to mexico ( I don't like it either ) but i'll still take one any day over the snowblowers ( complete snowblowers ) coming from china


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## snow2345ffs (Dec 20, 2015)

yea but the powermax is 2X the price and is only 212cc vs this is 208cc. Nice joystick though but I probably can't quickly disassemble it if I need to fold the handles to fit under a truck cap. 

I just read the bad amazon and home depot reviews. Anything engine related 'will not start again' etc I pass off as usual, as people who don't know how to use fuel stabilizer and keep the tank full when not in use so condensation doesn't build up. things like that. 

There are a few where they were missing a part or the box was damaged, no biggie, happens with all brands. 

seems like a few didn't attach the adjustable tension wire for the auger correctly when assembling and were running it too tight and burnt out the belt.

Only a few had problems that would worry me like one said a weld on the handle broke immediately. But I'm almost hoping something like this would happen to me because if I'm not mistaken, when something like this happens, they are basically getting the machine for free, full refund. Some got it shipped late also and got a %10 refund. I have blowers for now but if it's delivered late, maybe I'll get a partial refund. I wouldn't lie about these things but I would expect reimbursement. 


I'm going to do some more searching. This sale goes on for basically the whole winter so no rush. I'm either going to get this or see if I can get a mint used 8HP that fits my somewhat specific requirements 
light to push up ramps instead of drive up icy ramps, 

handles fold quickly

not over 24" so I can do walkways easier. If it's something like a 26" then it only saves me one passes down most driveways if anything at all which is nothing and when you have a smaller intake, you have power concentrated to a smaller area.

I would probably buy a craftsman or troy bilt if it were similarly priced new and had same size or bigger (8HP) engine because the parts for troybilt and craftsman MTD Murray etc are more likely available and much easier to find years from now. But the price is probably $200 more for those so I don't see how I can go wrong with the powersmart. I'm saving up for a mower and mini bike also so whatever.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

its not the engine its the rest of the machine, I think some craftsman snowblowers come with powermore engines


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## Ariens-777 (Dec 8, 2015)

I just bought a Predator 212 Hemi and for specs, 7HP is printed on the box.


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## snow2345ffs (Dec 20, 2015)

_its not the engine its the rest of the machine, I think some craftsman snowblowers come with powermore engines_ 

I think all the metal and plastic they use is standard grade until you get into high end machines. I think I read something about Chinese metal being cheap quality when they were saying how a particular US bridge was being subbed out to china to come build. China is the world's biggest steel maker though, I think they can make it any grade but I think a cheap snowblower metal is same as the rest. 

the powersmart is on the light side I think in weight but the snowmaster is even much lighter and thus thinner metal etc. I like light to be able to push up ramps but of course the thicker the stronger if material grade is equal.


The powermore winter engine I didn't hear of, mostly Honda, Tecumseh, LCT, Lincoln (spelling?), few others. I guess they're good, all I found so far is a thread somewhere else they said it has a 4 year warranty so it can't be bad. Not going to decide just on engine though unless it's terrible engine. 



212cc hemi predator says 7HP? You mean you modded it as a Hemi or it was a hemi? didn't really look into this other than found this from go kart forum

11-07-2013 

_yup the new style predator motor has the hemi head on it its the one with the square aluminum valve cover....it has diff style rockers in it...kinda look like the new champion rockers and it has a 27mm intake valve! and a flat top piston and these motors can use the gx200 camshafts and flywheels and for stuffer springs they need to be for the hemi predator there short...i had one spinning 9400 rpm already they take mods good and like bigger carbs!_ 


Maybe I should just swap out the LCT immediately to a $99 212cc pred (which is hemi by default)?


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## Ariens-777 (Dec 8, 2015)

snow2345ffs said:


> 212cc hemi predator says 7HP? You mean you modded it as a Hemi or it was a hemi? didn't really look into this other than found this from go kart forum
> 
> 11-07-2013
> 
> ...



It's stock at 7HP. They all don't have the hemi head. 60363 is the
part number for the Predator 212 with the hemi head.


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## snow2345ffs (Dec 20, 2015)

hmm but it doesn't show that it's a hemi. I found the item and I notice it says in store only and there are other 212cc predators they have but it is indeed a different model so thanks for pointing this out. Do you think I should swap them just to have the predator 212cc HEMI vs the 208cc LCT? All I know is cc more is better but like I quoted from that go kart forum a couple posts back there are all types of other things to consider. I don't want to alter it though and add a double head gasket or anything like that to kind of hack it. 

I think maybe one is not hemi because it's California carb compliant or something. I know the powersmart's LCT is not carb complaint which might mean it's jetted richer for winter and thus better. I see people are rejetting preds etc even for non winter because they are basically saying it's how they keep emissions cleaner but you are losing a bunch of performance and that's why it revs and putts sometimes.


Lowes has this same powersmart for $599. I'm waiting to see if they'll beat home depot by %10 which it says they do but possibly not a Sale item or online-only item.


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## Ariens-777 (Dec 8, 2015)

You can bolt-on any of the Predator 212 engines. Really can't be beat for $99.99.

I would look for an older Ariens (there's a ton of them on Craigslist) and repower it. There's a reason so many are still around. They were built like tanks.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

so what snowblower are you using now snow2345ffs


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

detdrbuzzard said:


> its not the engine its the rest of the machine, I think some craftsman snowblowers come with powermore engines



You are correct sir. The engine is the good part of the deal - > "Engine Type LCT storm force 4 stroke"

LCT as used on a number of different manufacturer's machines.


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## snow2345ffs (Dec 20, 2015)

_I would look for an older Ariens (there's a ton of them on Craigslist) and repower it. There's a reason so many are still around. They were built like tanks._ 

I don't want an older anything. Bearings starting to go, belts, rust forming, cables possibly starting to go, need new shave plate and possibly skid shoes, heavy, handles might not fold down, auger and drive gears starting to go?
Plus a lot have dual shaft motors I don't want to deal with repowering that with new pulleys and belts and shaft extension etc if I need to repower.

I would like to buy some broken newish $100 machine or a free one some idiot ran without oil or something and just throw the $99 212cc predator on it but all I'm seeing is 'runs great'. yea sure. 


I have right now a 212cc single stage I just got a good deal on used but it's mint, guy got a dual stage. 
I have an old ~100cc toro single stage also that some how got me though the years but I need something good for work, a single and dual stage.

I just got an older 8HP yard machines I think it is. "Runs great" my as. it did run good though when I tested it but now it revs. they moved where there's no snow so I thought I wasn't buying a problem. Hopefully just needs a carb cleaning. Dual shaft configuration though. I thought it was a 2003 but it's a 1997. Things are going to start going like the gears I think. I could use it until it dies and then part out the remains on ebay and make more than my $225 back but I don't want it taking up space or to do all those pictures and weighing parts for listing that won't sell fast when I can just get this brand new 208cc powersmart for $428 shipped with warranty. 


I will also still look for a used single shaft that is light, folds, etc that I can repower with a 212cc or 8HP predator if the engine dies or if I want to just sell the existing engine right away before it has problems (non gear-head previous owner usually when you find a good which means the engine might be more prone to problems). Something that is a known brand I will be able to find parts for in the future. 

I could also spend ~$800 for a new 8HP known brand but like I was saying, I'm trying to put money aside for other machines. 

Or I can buy something new like a small 5HP known brand (parts easy) and sell the new motor and put a 212cc or 301cc pred on it. 

The powersmart 208cc is only $428 shipped after tax (and possibly lowes will beat that by %10). But maybe I will get something like this troybilt 179cc for ~$578 after tax and sell the engine for a predator. the sale ends today but there easy ways to get %10 at lowes.
Shop Troy-Bilt Storm 2410 179-cc 24-in Two-Stage Electric Start Gas Snow Blower at Lowes.com


In other words, I could buy the troy bilt for $578. I have to double check with youtube videos but I'm %99 sure it's a single shaft engine. Then I sell the engine right away and net about $125 and buy a 212cc predator and total spending would come to about $525 which is $100 more than buying the powersmart. But with the powersmart, I don't have to go through the trouble of swaping the engine and selling the troybilt engine and will probably also need a new belt(s) to fit the predator. But I would be able to get parts easy for the troybilt, possibly cheap good-as-new used parts. can get a 208cc ariens sno tech 24 for ~$700 with tax and not need to swap the engine but I wouldn't buy it if it's dual shaft. 

I jumped the gun on the 8hp I was in a rush. it seemed like a good deal and good deals can go in minutes on craigslist. then I realized the engine might start having serious problems like with the rings and stuff. And the gears etc. 

So what I did next was got another used machine that was only a few years old and barely used. A 5HP craftsman. I was planning to put a 212cc pred on it and sell the engine. I found the manual before buying and confirmed it is a single shaft. Then I go to buy the thing and notice the impeller is friggin plastic. I know some guy here has a large ~44" john deere tractor attachment with plastic impeller and put an impeller kit on it and I saw a youtuber has one too on a plastic and said it's holding up fine so I bought it anyway. 

I roughly measured the 8HP engine and I don't think it will even fit on this little machine. Also it has a single speed transmission like a lawnmower and the snowmaster which I think will strip out. the gears are actually plastic in a lot of those. With a lawn mower it's different but with snow, you are into dense snow using the propel and it's not moving, just locking up the gears. 
I jumped the gun on the little 5 hp craftsman also. And I decided after it would be better to have something with reverse and multiple speeds and a much harder-to-break drive system. 


I don't know what it is but I made this all out to be harder than it is. Making these long ridiculous threads and stressing about this more than it's worth. But I did go from knowing nothing about snowblowers when I joined here about a month ago though and now I'm talking swapping engines and figuring out the absolute best deal I can get.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Why not just buy a real nice used one in that case? It's not like blowers get hundreds of hours on them. Well taken care of blowers turn up all the time for sale and on auctions. You could get a higher end model for way off the going price of new...... WIN - WIN


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

_


snow2345ffs said:



I think all the metal and plastic they use is standard grade until you get into high end machines.

Click to expand...

_


snow2345ffs said:


> Standard grade, what is standard grade ??
> Have you physically taken a look at one of these Powermore snow blowers yet ??
> Just curious how you evaluate it as being better than a Troy or Craftsman or .... if the stores don't carry them ??
> 
> ...


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

read this post , and maybe im confused ? why the heck would anyone buy a new machine, and swap the engine with basically the same engine thinking there is some type of benefit ??? not sure if this info even applies to this thread, but i tried out my new to me 208 cc LCT, 28" sno tek today in 4-5" of wet snow ( impeller kitted), and it threw snow like a honda, and never went on the governor at all.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i'll be happy when he buys the powermore so we can get some feed back one way or the other. we've got guys buying husky's and cubs and a few other brands that we wouldn't have looked at a few years ago so why not a powermore if he is dead set on it. run it until it runs no more


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## snow2345ffs (Dec 20, 2015)

I really doubt I'm getting that powersmart. darn good deal though. 


And again, when you have a popular brand, aftermarket manufacturers also make the parts to OEM specs, and demand on places like ebay drive the prices down, and you can also find a lot of used parts. A lot of parts are interchangeable throughout different brands too, although possibly still the same main manufacturer (like poulan is to Husqvarna), but the parts are just much easier to find and cheaper. 

I should have just spent $500 to begin with on a used 8HP or $750ish new instead of going for the low range bargain. Still, a $500 used 8HP might have some hidden problem with a temp bandaide over it because I don't think anyone would want to part with a good 8HP machine unless they're moving where there's no snow.


edit: lowes called me back about beating home depot's $399 price. One manager said they'll only match it. Then without me asking, apparently a different manager called the next day, today, and said they'll even beat it by %10 which is $385 after tax and I'm pretty tempted. Brand new machine with warranty is nice despite parts availability in the future being uncertain and/or overpriced.


final edit: used my 8HP today in like 3 foot snow in some areas. Dense snow. Big plow wall. I wouldn't want any smaller engine for a dual stage. Used my neighbor's newish 196cc~ dual stage and no comparison. 

heard back from powersmart though about that $300 machine. Impeller is metal, pretty much everything is metal.


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