# 1999 HS 828 Wheeled Auger and impeller bearing question



## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Greetings, 

I purchased the above mentioned machine in 2000 brand new. It is a magnificent machine and owes me nothing. Last season I lost the auger belt at a very inopportune time. It was quickly repaired (in the snowy cold).

While I had the machine apart, I noticed the impeller bearing. I was in no position to replace it then as I had to get the machine back in operation, and the dealer was closed. 

How do I know when to replace the outside-most auger bearings, and the impeller bearing. I have no detectable play in the auger bearings, and the impeller bearing has slight radial play (impeller does not contact impeller housing) has some axial (in and out from auger transmission) play.

Are these 3 bearings something that should be done as routine maintenance, or wait until there are signs of deterioration/failure.

Thanks.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

The impeller bearing needs to be replaced pretty much immediately as it spins at a very high rate, the side bearings can be replaced whenever you get a chance. The impeller bearing is a common issue with these blowers, just check it every few years for play and replace if needed.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Thanks for the reply Jnc. SO from my description, you think the impeller bearing is worn? 

It's been a while since I broke the machine in half to do the auger belt which wasn't a bad job if I recall, so I don't have a great recollection of what was in there, but I can get in pretty easily. After that point do you know what's involved in replacing the impeller bearing? Any difficult points or tips or tricks/gotchas to be concerned about? It's not "pressed" on is it?

Side bearings seem pretty self explanatory. Remove the auger xmission support, remove the three bolts on the bearing retainers on each side and pull forward. 

I would probably do all 3 at the same time.

Any thoughts or suggestions welcome. 

Thanks.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

pjw73nh said:


> Thanks for the reply Jnc. SO from my description, you think the impeller bearing is worn?
> 
> It's been a while since I broke the machine in half to do the auger belt which wasn't a bad job if I recall, so I don't have a great recollection of what was in there, but I can get in pretty easily. After that point do you know what's involved in replacing the impeller bearing? Any difficult points or tips or tricks/gotchas to be concerned about? It's not "pressed" on is it?
> 
> ...



from my experience , side bearings rarely have to be replaced. if you take augers out, which only takes about 15 minutes, it is easy to inspect side play. i also pick the rubber cover off to look at bearings and put in some grease if necessary.

too bad you did not replace that impeller bearing when you had the bucket off. lot of work and the bearing is relatively inexpensive. they charge $150 around here to replace those belts and bearing because of the labor involved.

others should correct me, but i just look for any kind of play in impeller ( make sure impeller shear bolt is tight ) to determine bearing health. that bearing starts to go and you are asking for a lot of trouble. 

even if i am not sure , i will pull the bucket and replace that bearing if it were 17 years old. good insurance. also with the bucket off you can inspect all kind of other things like the tension arm, pullies, springs, auger brake, belts, cable ends , adjustments , loose bolts, lube and grease, etc. 

first time i pulled a bucket off and put it back on it took me almost all day, ha ha. now i can pull a bucket in 15-20 minutes and put it back on in almost the same time. maybe a little longer as I am extra careful about that auger brake arm getting caught. ( tie down auger control handle )


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Well.... I got the auger bucket and main engine part separated just fine. I couldn't figure out how to get the impeller drive pulley off. It's welded to (the rear half) of the impeller shaft. I finally figured out that I had to remove the augers and gearbox assy, then slide the impeller off. That revealed the 3 bolts of the impeller shaft bearing retainer. Once those were removed the impeller pulley and bearing came right out the rear of the auger/impeller housing. The bearing needed a little "persuasion" to come off the shaft, but not very much. As suspected, the bearing was toast. Still intact, but lots of rust, grinding and noise. I am VERY glad I did this. The auger bearings were fine, but I am going to replace them just the same. 17 year old machine. Why not? Cheap insurance. I'll probably be dead when the next time the need for replacement comes around.  

I am going to get bearings tomorrow. While it's apart, I cleaned up the area and the clutch/brake levers/springs etc with cleaner. Is it worth lubing the cables to the levers now? If so what is recommended? I don't want to use anything that;s going to attract dust,dirt or thicken up when cold.

Thanks again for all the help.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

what do you mean by lubing up cables to levers? you mean up at the handlebars? i do spray where the cables connect there so the end of cable moves freely and won't freeze and rub until the cable starts to break.

i usually just clean the bottom part where the cable end hooks on to the springs. 

since you have everything apart, i hope you bore out the augers for any rust and corrosion and clean the auger gearbox shafts for the same reason and use anti=seize before putting everything together. i also anti-seize the ends of each auger bucket bolt.

you never know.......you may have to take this off again in 20 years....or the next owner. these things can last forever. mine is 25 years old and runs and performs like new.

check pic


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## The Q (Dec 19, 2016)

I have had very good luck using Breakfree CLP or G96 as a spray lube for cables and such.


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## highdesignfool (Jan 23, 2017)

Well I'm sitting on my butt and haven't yet checked my auger bearings. Thanks for the inspiration. It literally took 10 minutes and my bearings look and feel great. I'll clean them up and pack with new grease tomorrow. What grease is recommended? I'm still wondering if I should go deeper to the impeller bearing.


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## jeffNB (Nov 5, 2015)

I concur with others that the side bearings rarely fail. I have changed them as a matter of course "while I was in there". 

The last time I had play in the impeller bearing, not only was the bearing shot, but the bearing holder was wallered out and not holding the bearing tightly. The dealer was closed, so I squeezed the holder in a vise, rotate, squeeze again, repeat. It fit great after that. I always wondered if the HS impeller bearing was undersized. The HSS has a larger bearing. 

As orangputeh says, make sure those augers are free to turn on the auger gearbox shafts. Do whatever it takes to make them free and lubricate liberally. Mine were quite rusted and I needed heat to free them. 

Whenever working on my blower, all removed fasteners go into a magnetic parts tray and I spray everything with Rust Check before re-assembly. Never broke a fastener in 20 years of owing the blower. 

Jeff


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## highdesignfool (Jan 23, 2017)

How difficult is the impeller bearing to get to? My auger and impeller are both out, looks like the bucket comes next, then what?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

highdesignfool said:


> How difficult is the impeller bearing to get to? My auger and impeller are both out, looks like the bucket comes next, then what?


it's easy peasy once you take bucket off. if you have never done that , it is fairly easy, just takes time. watch the video on you-tube on taking off the bucket on a Honda hs 55, i believe.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

i bought a used 1987ish craftsman/murray w/a bad auger bearing, was easy to get at as auger shaft was not rusted onto pulley

the bad bearing, whatever is left of it anyways, inner race has totally disintegrated and disappeared. this is what happens when someone neglects it, for this, albeit it was neglected for a long time


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

highdesignfool,

Bear in mind, i just got my bearings this morning, and have not yet put the machine back together.

Wrench and socket sizes I use were 8, 10,12,14 MM.

I did mine in this order:

Disconnect chute cable. 8 MM wrench on chute deflector.

Gently pry up chute cable retainer from "pulley cover".

Remove chute positioning shaft and worm gear from bucket. (bolt underneath)

Remove plastic "pulley" cover from between bucket and drive train. 3 or 4 bolts

Remove all ten bolts to separate the bucket from the drive train. 3 left, 3 right, 2 top, 2 bottom. I did top two last.

Carefully separate the two halves, un-threading the impeller belt from the engine pulley.

Remove rear-most shear pin on the impeller shaft.

Remove 3 auger bearing retainer bolts and 1 "axle" bolt from each side of the auger bucket.

Pull the whole auger assembly and impeller out the front and set aside. (Mine does not have a center brace for the gearbox. Yours may.)

Remove 3 impeller bearing retainer bolts holding the impeller shaft bearing in.

The pulley and impeller bearing will come out the rear of the bucket. 

I had to gently tap the bearing off the shaft. Some people have reported a lot more difficulty with this step because if the bearing is TOO worn, it grooves the shaft. 

Hope this helps.


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## highdesignfool (Jan 23, 2017)

pjw73nh said:


> highdesignfool,
> 
> Bear in mind, i just got my bearings this morning, and have not yet put the machine back together.
> 
> ...




Thanks man


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Well. Back to the saga of my HS828 K1 WAS. Got the new impeller bearing today. Slides on the pulley shaft rather easily. Good fit along MOST of the shaft, but then a little loose where it usually sits. After assemble to the impeller housing, there is still some radial play in the pulley/shaft/bearing. Not anywhere near as bad as it was with the old bearing. 

It appears that the bad bearing had, over time, worn a VERY slight/shallow groove in the pulley shaft where the bearing usually sits. The groove is about 5/1000's of an inch deep if that, and is exactly the width of the inner race. Clearly at some point the shaft has been slipping on the inner race. Not a lot, but some. There are no signs of heat or grinding. 

Is this typical of the wear for this part? Is it within tolerance? I don't want to put a new pulley/shaft in and have it just do the same thing. The bearings are not pressed in to a machine fitting anywhere on this machine like they are in automotive applications. They are held by steel retainers and associated bolts. What SHOULD the pulley and shaft feel like? No play at all?

Thanks.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

That wobble is fine, you just need to make sure that the bearing is good, the bearing holder is torqued/tighten properly etc. 

The bit of play can only be eliminated if the tolerance was to a point where the bearing had to be press fitted, which is not the case, so change the bearing and call it a day. 

Make sure to throw some anti-seize on the auger shaft and all three of the shafts that go into the impeller and the augers.


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## highdesignfool (Jan 23, 2017)

Bucket removed! 
The impeller bearing seems fine, but I'll just grab a new one and I'll be in business.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

JnC wrote:


> Make sure to throw some anti-seize on the auger shaft and all three of the shafts that go into the impeller and the augers.


So up until your suggestion above, I was just going to put the unit back together and call it a day. I have in the past had the auger shear bolts break and the augers spun freely. Why bother right? 

I took your advice (thus far). A good thing I did. I have been able to get the left side auger off the shaft. It took a fair amount of persuasion. Penetrating oil, light tapping with a hammer, and some very hard twisting and pulling. 

The right side? No dice. Yet. I tried PBlaster, soaked overnight, twisting while locked in a vice, hammer tapping, and propane torch. It appears as though I am going to have to dig out my oxy-acetylene and give that a go this afternoon or tomorrow. I am hoping the impeller shaft is not as difficult.

Will update as I (hopefully) progress. 

Thanks.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

UPDATE: I dug out the oxy-acetylene rig and heated it up. I tried the gentle route at first. didn't want to melt any seals or the like. I was able to put a piece sheet mental between the shear bolt holder and the gear box to deflect some of the heat if it got that far. i don't think it did. It needed a LOT of heat to get it off. 

Anyway, both augers off now, all greased up with silver anti-seize. 

Now on to the the impeller shaft where it meets the gearbox input. I took the bolt out (it didn't look like a shear bolt). It looked like a regular bolt and was on VERY tight. Once the bolt was out, like the right side auger above. The shaft is not moving. It won't budge. I am soaking it in PBlaster overnight in the hope it just may loosen. I am not holding my breath. This shaft won't take any heavy tapping or it could rupture the gearbox/seal/bearing. Also if I heat it, it is REAL close to the gearbox so I am concerned about the heat getting to the seal and bearing.

I'll probably try again tomorrow. Not sure what I'll do otherwise. I REALLY don't want to tear the gearbox down just to lube this end of the impeller shaft. 

How concerned should I be? It appears that the shear bolt towards the rear of the impeller (That joins the pulley shaft to the impeller would act as the "fuse" in the case of a bind-up. No?

Thanks

Stay tuned.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

are u talking about the bolts the hold the impeller to the shaft, i dont think they use shear bolts on them. i wouldnt think they would hurt the gear box like if auger hit something.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

The pulley shaft goes into (for lack of a better description) an intermediate shaft that is part of the impeller. and is secured with a shear bolt of some sort (top hole near the impeller. I forgot to circle it but you can see it in the pic. ). That intermediate (impeller) shaft goes OVER the gearbox input shaft and that is where the large bolt I am speaking of was, AND where I am trying to separate it. See attached pic.

Thanks.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

i would be very concerned. that impeller HAS to be removed from the shaft. then the impeller end needs to be bored out or with a heavy brush and cleaned and the shafts cleaned and then anti-seize grease. I use a drill with a wire wheel brush attachment. 

i would soak and resoak with blaster for a couple days if necessary and i think you can also use vinegar for the rust and corrosion. if you have a couple days to wait that may work. 

you are right that bolt is not a shear bolt. 

btw. your machine looks pretty clean. 

looking forward to your updates and pictures.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Orangputeh wrote:


> i would be very concerned. that impeller HAS to be removed from the shaft. then the impeller end needs to be bored out or with a heavy brush and cleaned and the shafts cleaned and then anti-seize grease. I use a drill with a wire wheel brush attachment.
> 
> i would soak and resoak with blaster for a couple days if necessary and i think you can also use vinegar for the rust and corrosion. if you have a couple days to wait that may work.
> 
> you are right that bolt is not a shear bolt.


OK. Thanks. Yes, I plan on wire brushing all bores, and using anti-seize. I have a few days that I can let this soak in, but I can tell you over the last 24 hours it has not made ANY difference. Again, I am concerned about BOTH using force (hammering) AND heating for fear of damaging the gearbox and/or components.

Good to know it's NOT a shear bolt. I suspect in manufacturing, they tightened it WAY too much, and this is contributing to my difficulty in getting the impeller off. 

Any suggestions on how to get the gearbox AND auger shafts clamped stationery so I can at least apply rotational force to the impeller shaft without turning the gearbox input shaft and try and twist it off. In order to clamp the assembly in a vise I have to tighten the vise, and by doing so I risk damaging the gearbox. 

If, I exhaust all efforts to remove the impeller, and am unsuccessful, I suspect I may as well just leave it the way it is, and if/when the gearbox breaks, I'll have to replace the parts anyway. May as well play the odds.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

I had a similar issue with an HS828 last year, I really didnt want to use heat as I would have had to change the seals in the gearbox. I threw in a whole bunch of ATF/Acetone mix in the impeller tube and left it in storage over the summer. Took it out earlier last month, put in a 1/2" extension through the impeller tube and hammered it till the shaft came out of the impeller. 

You only need to hold the impeller in the vice. Mix half part acetone and half atf in an empty windex bottle, shake it real well and then spray it inside the impeller. Leave it for a couple of days and then try your luck again, hopefully it will sort out the issue.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

JnC,

Thanks for the great info. You just gave me GREAT idea. I never thought of tapping from the INSIDE (other end) of the impeller shaft against the end of the gearbox input shaft. .

I will try this afternoon. I am going to try using a piece of re-bar, and then use my air chisel (hammer) and see if that will free it up. I NEVER thought of going through the INSIDE. GREAT idea.

Thanks


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## highdesignfool (Jan 23, 2017)

I took the orange covers off my impeller bearing and washed all the old dead grease out in a parts cleaner. There was zero play in the bearing so I just packed it up with grease and installed it again. I'm glad I did it though. Peace of mind!


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## alphaboy123 (Oct 27, 2016)

The Q said:


> I have had very good luck using Breakfree CLP or G96 as a spray lube for cables and such.


Not sure i understand? Spray lubricant in cable housings?

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Highdesign, Bearing looks great. Mine was toast. Rusted, inner race was grinding had lots of wobble/play. Rubber seals were worn so much you could see clear through parts of them.

JnC, *** IT WORKED *** . Between soaking it in PBlaster for 36 hours, and using my air chisel (hammer) tonight it came out in 10 seconds with no damage to either the shaft or the gearbox. See attached.

I cleaned the shafts, the tubes and greased them all up with anti-seize. Put it all back together. Will fire it up tomorrow to check it out. 

In the pic, the "bit" for the air chisel was the only one I had long enough to reach to the bottom of the impeller shaft. A little overkill, but it did the job.

Thanks again for the GREAT idea !!!


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

Very nice, I am glad I could help. 

On a side note, what part of NH are you from? I commute between Nashua and Bedford.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

JnC Wrote:



> On a side note, what part of NH are you from? I commute between Nashua and Bedford.


NH Seacoast. Exeter/Hampton. Used to live over your way (Billerica....)


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