# PTFE Skids



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Hey guys, I do some regular business at a local machine shop. They do "side work" for me when I need it. Their primary business, 100% of it, is making automated machines for food processing and food service. Everything they build is stainless and PTFE.



They use a TON of PTFE, and I noticed a lot of scrap laying around. So I have two questions:


1. If enough people want PTFE for anything, I'll ask for the garbage can. 



2. If enough people want PTFE skids, I can have him make them up. He has a number of CNC and Laser Cutters, if we all do the same design, I'm sure he can rip them out fast.


Any interest in either?


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

only issue would be the distance between bolts on the different brands, Every one seems different than the next.


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## CTHuskyinMA (Jan 14, 2019)

At $35 for a pair of Ariens OEM polyethylene skid shoes, I wonder how much it would be for a custom machined pair in PTFE? I bet it would be hard to do any better unless he did a pretty good quantity. Having said that, if I had a chance to grab a bin of scraps, I probably would.




jsup said:


> Hey guys, I do some regular business at a local machine shop. They do "side work" for me when I need it. Their primary business, 100% of it, is making automated machines for food processing and food service. Everything they build is stainless and PTFE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

CTHuskyinMA said:


> Having said that, if I had a chance to grab a bin of scraps, I probably would.


Same here. Teflon skids could be pretty cool. 

You have me wondering if there's a way to attach a strip of Teflon to the underside of my Ariens poly skids. Ideally without significant modifications (damage) to the existing skids. I guess they could be mounted to my original steel skids as well, since at that point you don't really care what the actual skids themselves are made of.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

jsup said:


> Hey guys, I do some regular business at a local machine shop. They do "side work" for me when I need it. Their primary business, 100% of it, is making automated machines for food processing and food service. Everything they build is stainless and PTFE. They use a TON of PTFE, and I noticed a lot of scrap laying around. So I have two questions:
> 1. If enough people want PTFE for anything, I'll ask for the garbage can. 2. If enough people want PTFE skids, I can have him make them up. He has a number of CNC and Laser Cutters, if we all do the same design, I'm sure he can rip them out fast.
> Any interest in either?



My Simplicity came with plastic? skids and I replaced them with the Armorskids. The OEM plastic was a very wide design and would tend to make bucket ride up, when it comes to skids thin is in.:wink2:
How well would skinny PTFE shoes hold up?


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Dauntae said:


> only issue would be the distance between bolts on the different brands, Every one seems different than the next.



Yeah, I know, but on a CNC or router bed you can make them different distances by just changing a number. Anyway, just askin'.


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

If you decide to have some made I might buy a set from you to try out for my deluxe 24


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

is ptfe similar to hdpe? if yes then its easy enough to work with to make your own custom skids as in here in making my own using an old cutting board


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Again, why reinvent the skid, when this guy makes such nice ones for so little: https://www.ebay.com/sch/Snow-Blowe...irstClass!04074!US!-1:rk:20:pf:0&_ssn=dmws106


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Dauntae said:


> If you decide to have some made I might buy a set from you to try out for my deluxe 24


I'm not trying to make money, at this juncture. I wanted to try it as a group purchase, making nothing, just as a proof of concept. If it works, then I'd consider production. 



When I release a product, I have a six step process, that could last a year or more:
1. Concept
2. Prototype
3. Proof of concept
4. adjustments
5. POC 2
6. Production


I've done every one of my products this way. Right now I'm just at "it's a nifty idea lets see if people want to try it." 



I'm thinking this guy buys PTFE in massive quantities and probably gets a great price. He has the capabilities to do what I want, so if other people want to try, I'll ask the questions.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

tabora said:


> Again, why reinvent the skid, when this guy makes such nice ones for so little: https://www.ebay.com/sch/Snow-Blowe...irstClass!04074!US!-1:rk:20:pf:0&_ssn=dmws106





Because I didn't know they existed. Well, that settles that.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

tabora said:


> Again, why reinvent the skid, when this guy makes such nice ones for so little: https://www.ebay.com/sch/Snow-Blowe...irstClass!04074!US!-1:rk:20:pf:0&_ssn=dmws106


I'm sure his are great. But they're HDPE, not Teflon, so it's not quite apples to apples. 

To me, the point of interest is the Teflon, not just aftermarket skids, or non-metal skids.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> I'm sure his are great. But they're HDPE, not Teflon, so it's not quite apples to apples.
> 
> To me, the point of interest is the Teflon, not just aftermarket skids, or non-metal skids.


I guess I don't understand why PTFE is of interest for skids? It has high temperature resistance, but low resistance to abrasion and is often shaped by sanding/grinding. It would wear much faster than HDPE.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

We use Delrin and UHMW for high-wear applications, but I've never used Teflon like that industrially. I wasn't sure if it might be better, just too expensive. If it would perform worse than HDPE/UHMW, then oh well, I guess there's no benefit to it.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

tabora said:


> I guess I don't understand why PTFE is of interest for skids? It has high temperature resistance, but low resistance to abrasion and is often shaped by sanding/grinding. It would wear much faster than HDPE.



I live in an area where 100% of my use is on pavement. Just thought PTFE would be more forgiving with slightly raised sidewalks, like my neighbor has and I get caught on with metal skids. IDK, just spitballin'. Maybe it is a lousy idea. I'm not married to anything. 



Sure, I can raise the metal skids, I konw, but I was bored and exhausted, it's been a long week, and just threw it out there.


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## CTHuskyinMA (Jan 14, 2019)

Delrin, HDPE, Nylon and Teflon are all very good for high wear/"_sliding action_" applications, if you will. I have to believe that Teflon will wear better than HDPE in the case of a skid shoe, though cost will be an issue.

So to buy a pair of the ebay ones it would be $32, shipped. They actually look pretty nice with the replaceable wear surface...



RedOctobyr said:


> We use Deltin and UHMW for high-wear applications, but I've never used Teflon like that industrially. I wasn't sure if it might be better, just too expensive. If it would perform worse than HDPE/UHME, then oh well, I guess there's no benefit to it.


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

jsup said:


> I live in an area where 100% of my use is on pavement. Just thought PTFE would be more forgiving with slightly raised sidewalks, like my neighbor has and I get caught on with metal skids.


What skids do you run currently? Going from stock Ariens skids to Armorskids helped a lot with that issue for me, as the skids are now long enough that they extend forward of the bucket a little. So instead of ramming the bucket into the sidewalk lip and stopping dead if I don't lift it in time, the skid hits, I get a little bump and the ramped front of the skid guides it up and over the lip. Worst lip on my sidewalk is about an inch and it gets up that just fine.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I just have factory metal skids right now.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

CTHuskyinMA said:


> Delrin, HDPE, Nylon and Teflon are all very good for high wear/"_sliding action_" applications, if you will. I have to believe that Teflon will wear better than HDPE in the case of a skid shoe, though cost will be an issue.


Teflon is great for sliding against other smooth things, but really wears quickly when abraded. Rub some against coarse sandpaper, concrete or asphalt. See the characteristics attached...


CTHuskyinMA said:


> So to buy a pair of the ebay ones it would be $32, shipped. They actually look pretty nice with the replaceable wear surface...


Those are the deluxe ones with replaceable composite wear edges. He has much less expensive ones, too:Honda - $9.80 + $3.99 shipping per pair 
Honda/MTD/Ariens reversible - $12.50 + $3.99 shipping per pair 
Toro reversible - $16.00 + $4.00 shipping per pair​


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## DetroitAC (Nov 3, 2018)

I also CNC machine and sell skid shoes. I use only UHMW, and it's remarkable stuff. My sheets of UHMW from my supplier weigh 62 lbs each and I can stand them on edge and slide them easily with one hand across concrete.

I think HDPE is softer and will wear faster in conditions where the road surface is "sharper" if you know what I mean, like old concrete that has a lot of aggregate on the top surface. UHMW is about 2x the price of HDPE. The only materials I think would be better are Tivar 88 (UHMW with additives) and maybe MC901 (Nylon with additives), both of these are almost always blue in color and quite a bit more expensive, I think for only a little better wear resistance.

That being said, I have the fixturing and CNC code to quickly cut a few out of some scrap PTFE. I think it'll be softer than UHMW and maybe only a slightly lower coefficient of friction? If the material is scrap that can be made into something useful, it seems like it might be a good idea, much better than the landfill.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

DetroitAC said:


> I also CNC machine and sell skid shoes. I use only UHMW, and it's remarkable stuff. My sheets of UHMW from my supplier weigh 62 lbs each and I can stand them on edge and slide them easily with one hand across concrete.
> 
> I think HDPE is softer and will wear faster in conditions where the road surface is "sharper" if you know what I mean, like old concrete that has a lot of aggregate on the top surface. UHMW is about 2x the price of HDPE. The only materials I think would be better are Tivar 88 (UHMW with additives) and maybe MC901 (Nylon with additives), both of these are almost always blue in color and quite a bit more expensive, I think for only a little better wear resistance.
> 
> That being said, I have the fixturing and CNC code to quickly cut a few out of some scrap PTFE. I think it'll be softer than UHMW and maybe only a slightly lower coefficient of friction? If the material is scrap that can be made into something useful, it seems like it might be a good idea, much better than the landfill.



Do you need to do a sheet? Would some scrap help if I could dig it up? If so, what size works?


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## DetroitAC (Nov 3, 2018)

Depends...what machine would you be trying them out on? I only make Ariens, Toro, Simplicity/Murray/Craftsman


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

@DetroitAC, do you have any pictures of your skids?


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## LDRider (Jan 24, 2018)

Exactly right- Teflon (PTFE) is a very low friction material but not resistant to abrasion and relatively soft. What some are calling UHMW is Polyethylene (the Ultra High Molecular Weight version of it) and it too is very low in friction, and while not as good as Teflon, it is a much, much tougher material that wears very well as 'plastics' go. BTW- Polyethylene is often called 'the poor man's Teflon'. 

It would be pretty easy to try but I think PE will work much better than Teflon for such a high abrasion application as skid shoes on a snowblower.




tabora said:


> Teflon is great for sliding against other smooth things, but really wears quickly when abraded. Rub some against coarse sandpaper, concrete or asphalt. See the characteristics attached...
> 
> <snip>
> 
> [/INDENT]


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## DetroitAC (Nov 3, 2018)

db130 said:


> @DetroitAC, do you have any pictures of your skids?


I think it would violate forum rules against advertising to post them, I'll send you a PM :wink2:


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

DetroitAC said:


> Depends...what machine would you be trying them out on? I only make Ariens, Toro, Simplicity/Murray/Craftsman





Simplicity please. Should I look for some scrap to send you? If so, how big? I'll send scrap for another set if someone else wants to try them.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

I'm cheap. I'd go with the old discarded cutting board as previously mentioned. I have a lot of pallet wood around and have even considered oak skids - i think they would hold up just as well.


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## DetroitAC (Nov 3, 2018)

3.8" x 5.8" x whatever thickness

My parts have 2.5" slot spacing center to center, please verify that will work


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

DetroitAC said:


> 3.8" x 5.8" x whatever thickness
> 
> My parts have 2.5" slot spacing center to center, please verify that will work



Let me see if I can get some scrap. I'd like to see someone who uses their machine more than me try a set too. I'll try to get enough material for a couple sets. I'll know Tuesday.


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## CTHuskyinMA (Jan 14, 2019)

I received my eBay skids in the mail. They look pretty good, though they are smaller and at 0.750”, narrower than the heavy duty ones that came on the machine.


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## Frankmor (Jan 24, 2019)

Posted this on another thread...would seem to make sense to have composite boots to fit over existing steel skids on my Ariens, without having to replace them..haven’t found any.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Frankmor said:


> Posted this on another thread...would seem to make sense to have composite boots to fit over existing steel skids on my Ariens, without having to replace them..haven’t found any.



Not a bad idea If there could be a way to hold them firmly without having to bolt them on, they can be slipped on and off when needed.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Slip-on skids seems less practical, to me.

Ariens has 1 skid interface design, I believe. Slot spacing and size. But I have seen multiple metal skids designs, at least on my machines (2000 and earlier). The Pro skids had thicker bases. 

So now you need to attach to, say, 2 different types of skids, maybe requiring 2 slip-on skids designs. 

And you still need to adjust the skids when installing/removing the slip-on skids, since you'd be effectively raising the bucket due to the added thickness. So they aren't something you'd just pop on/off with no other changes. 

For that matter, at some point, with thick original skids, you might not be able to raise them far enough to get a proper bucket height, if the original skids were almost at the end of their slot travel.

I think this may be answering a question that hasn't really been asked.


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## ptfescrap (Mar 14, 2019)

jsup said:


> Hey guys, I do some regular business at a local machine shop. They do "side work" for me when I need it. Their primary business, 100% of it, is making automated machines for food processing and food service. Everything they build is stainless and PTFE.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


we can buy PTFE scrap from you. Please contact [email protected]


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