# Heater box for my 212cc Predator



## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

I've been bothered by the way my 212cc predator operated in the snow during our last big snow here in southeast MA. I was blowing snow during the early hours and it was really cold, windy, and still snowing quite a bit. Well the motor started acting up and I took a quick peek only to find that the carb and linkages had a glazed ice layer on them. So I got my wife's hairdryer out and defrosted the ice, much to my wife's delight. Motor ran fine when everything was defrosted. So now I start thinking about how to protect the carb & linkages. I didn't want to fork over $100 to see "if" the Honda ice kit would work, because while it is a close match, the Predator is not a Honda and not "all" Honda parts will fit. So I went about making a Heater box for my motor, and here are some pictures of it. I will say in full disclosure that I am not a metal fabricator and the heater box is not gallery quality art by any stretch of the imagination, but I did run it for an hour and a half and it performs it's designed purpose. I'll post a few more pictures of it mounted to the blower when the paint dries.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

Here are some more mounted on the blower.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Looks nice mounted on there. What holds it in place?


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

I have it mounted with 4 screws, they screw into the existing holes on the stock muffler cage. I'm going to drill a couple more on top to use those two holes as well. It fits on pretty snug and the screws really pull it tight. When I fired it up there was no vibration rattle.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

HJames said:


> I have it mounted with 4 screws, they screw into the existing holes on the stock muffler cage. I'm going to drill a couple more on top to use those two holes as well. It fits on pretty snug and the screws really pull it tight. When I fired it up there was no vibration rattle.


Very Creative. I may add a small metal box lower on the engine that just goes around the lower part of the carburetor off the metal shiel below the engine to funnel engine heat to the carburetor alone rather than making a large suround metal box like you did. Icing is rare and tends to occur only when the temperture reaches the dew point and this means that the humidity is very high and the ambient temperture is below freezing. In Minnesota we had lots of cold dry air this winter and last winter and I never experienced any problems with icing like you have. Very cold and dry means almost desert like dryness and icing will not occur when the humidity is that low.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Nice! Looks a bit like my '61 heater box. What paint did you use? Was it the Chevy DE1620?


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

Rustoleum orange. It's what I had in the shed, I thought about black but I was to lazy to go to the store and the orange works for me


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## cdestuck (Jan 20, 2013)

Just a tad bit crude but does the job, you made it and not a ton of loot involved. good job


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## msteiny (Oct 28, 2013)

That looks great, using all the heat from the muffler will keep everything warm under there. And thank you for being the "test rat". Now I get to make two hoods for my monster.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

I didn't mention it before and I wouldn't want to assume everyone would know, but I did remove the top to the air box as well as the foam filter.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

HJames said:


> I didn't mention it before and I wouldn't want to assume everyone would know, but I did remove the top to the air box as well as the foam filter.


I have used a couple Greyhounds and a Predator and so far I have left the air filter assemblies in tact on mine. I know they say filters can freeze and some people remove them. I figured I would leave mine there until I had an issue. So far no troubles.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

So after running the predator a couple of times since installing the heater box, I pulled the plug and found it was a dry jet black, Running rich!!! I did open the main jet prior to installing the heater box and the plug was fine so I can only "assume" that the warmer air was causing the rich condition. I removed the heater box, re-installed the plastic air housing without the foam filter and ran it in the last snow we had around here( only about 3"). Pulled the plug and it was still just slightly black, so I drilled 2 holes on in the plastic air housing(on the right side facing the gas tank), I ran it again for 1 hour under load( my dogs need space to run in the back anyways), pulled the plug again and it is as it should be. It seems that the increased air has flow has resolved my rich condition. I also noticed that what I think is the governor spring, located just under the throttle lever, seems to be what is causing the issues when icing occurs. This is an area of concern during operation, as long as this spring is allowed free movement, full RPM is consistent.

I haven't given up on the heater box yet....I am going to order a set of carb jets to test. I think it may run well with the heater box with stock jetting or ever so slightly more open. I used a 1 mm drill bit with mine, a .08 drill bit will work without modification to the air assembly.

Henry


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

You know.... With people flocking to these engines and using them off label in the snow there is an opportunity waiting.

One of you clever guys should lay down a design, get a metal shop to make some up and take to selling Predator winter kits. 

Just saying......

Pete


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

HJames, just curious, did you modify the stock jet because it was running lean? Did you pull the plug and confirmed it?


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

They surge a bit straight out of the box in colder temps, I opened the jet to cure the surge, I originally did .08 mm and it worked well around 32 degrees with the stock air assembly. Not being one the leave well enough alone, I opened it to 1mm and the plug showed just a slight rich condition. I then added the heater box and ran it a few times, when I pulled the plug it was jet black, so I removed the heater box and drilled 2 holes in the air box to improve air flow. I think that if you can introduce warmer air with the stock jetting it will run without any surging. I'll play with it for a while and see what I can do. It is a fun little motor to play with.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks for the summary of events. Sounds like you're close to the right combo now.


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## msteiny (Oct 28, 2013)

Hey guys, I finally got around to making boxes for both of my predators. Yes both.


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## SlowRider22 (Oct 17, 2013)

msteiny said:


> Hey guys, I finally got around to making boxes for both of my predators. Yes both.


That looks great, and plus with all the testing that you did to find the right combination, your blower is now a step above most. Congrats for your efforts paying off.
Give it a nice coat of primer and paint, and you're good to tackle the snow head-on.


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

msteiny said:


> Hey guys, I finally got around to making boxes for both of my predators. Yes both.


So what was your final choice for the size of the jet? My understanding is that the stock size is 0.028. The next largest aftermarket I have seen available is a #81 0.032. That seems to be a recent addition as previously, the smallest available was 0.034. 

Several rejet by hand using precision drill bit and pin vise to 0.030. 

I just ordered a 0.032 for OMB warehouse along with 140 emulsion tube. 

Have you upgraded anything else, such as spark plug or header?


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## msteiny (Oct 28, 2013)

I haven't played with the carb yet, waiting for the cold weather to see how it reacts with the box on it and all the warm air its getting from the muffler. I originally built this for keeping snow melt off the gov linkages and refreezing causing the throttle to go crazy wide open under no load. Now that I got the boxes built Im on to build my electric chute mod.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Can you post a couple of views.

I can t seem to open your uploaded photo. But I get the general idea. Thanks.


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## msteiny (Oct 28, 2013)

Try the photo album in my profile.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Pretty ingenious use of the two snow blowers there msteiny. I was wondering how you got two rooster tails from the front of your ATV.
Great job.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Grunt said:


> Pretty ingenious use of the two snow blowers there msteiny. I was wondering how you got two rooster tails from the front of your ATV.
> Great job.


Yea, that is pretty cool. I saw some videos of similar contraptions on youtube, but that guy actually cut the inside edge of the buckets out and welded them together then pieces the axle shafts together.

Also, I saw one big tractor mounted one that looked to be designed that way from the beginning. I think it was dual rotary throwers.


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## msteiny (Oct 28, 2013)

Not to get off subject from heater boxes here I made a thread to talk about my blower.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...iscussion/23705-double-headed-snowblower.html


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Msteiny, Any update on your heater box project?


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Today was the first real test I had for my Predator upgrade and it performed well until the governor linkage spring started to ice up. I had the same problems describe above in this post. Ice was forming on the top of the fan housing. The spring sits right on top of this.

I was wiping area down with a finger periodically or flat screw driver when the ice really built up.

A bit frustrating and definitely a motivator to come up with a heater box design

I did notice water from snow melt pooling around the throttle control bracket. I made sure the water was wiped away when I shut it down...I don't need that to ice up for tomorrow. (we are not done with this storm)

I also notice an icicle forming from the bottom of the Carb bowl.

It was about 15 degrees F and snow flurries. I was running with a .034 main jet. Starting was ok. Full choke it took about 5 pulls cold. I know there is an other post that is recommending to open the idle jet to help with cold weather starts. But I kept it stock for now.

Any how , I am restarting this older post to see if anyone has moved forward with their heater box projects.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

I did a Predator repower for a friend with the 212cc and rejetted it, it runs GREAT at 16 degrees without a heater box, now that the engine is getting enough fuel for the dense cold air. Went from stock .028 to .032 on main jet, and one step up (think it was .016) on the idle jet. Used micro drill bit in pin vice in one hand and spun jet onto it with fingers very straight not forcing it , the brass is soft it was easy. Reamed slightly and reinstalled carefully. Slightly more power with bigger jet and colder air too so win-win.  No airbox was needed on the side (although your idea is good for sure) but a shroud over the front and top and side up as far as the engine on/off sw was needed to keep the blowing snow out of the linkage springs and govenor.

That's my experience, hope it may help you. 

Just want to add here that it's all info that I myself learned here from other posts from those who had the experience before and found the formula.. I'm just one who learned and is passing it on again.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> Today was the first real test I had for my Predator upgrade and it performed well until the governor linkage spring started to ice up. I had the same problems describe above in this post. Ice was forming on the top of the fan housing. The spring sits right on top of this.
> 
> I was wiping area down with a finger periodically or flat screw driver when the ice really built up.
> 
> ...



I made a shield out of aluminum that wraps around the edge of the gas tank and goes down to the engine block to keep snow and ice from out of the governor linkages. I may do a heater box but I have not had any carburetor icing problems. I may do one like Honda does since the engine almost looks the same I bet I could make it out of sheet metal. Small metal cover that goes around the carburetor and attaches to the engine shroud to deflect some of the warm air from the engine to the base of the carburetor to prevent icing.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

GustoGuy said:


> I made a shield out of aluminum that wraps around the edge of the gas tank and goes down to the engine block to keep snow and ice from out of the governor linkages. I may do a heater box but I have not had any carburetor icing problems. I may do one like Honda does since the engine almost looks the same I bet I could make it out of sheet metal. Small metal cover that goes around the carburetor and attaches to the engine shroud to deflect some of the warm air from the engine to the base of the carburetor to prevent icing.


I like that idea, I made a shroud for the front + side, on my Predator 301cc, pretty much the same but the gaps to cover are bigger under the tank where the linkages are. I like your additional idea for that to prevent icing, I do think I'll explore that one


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> Today was the first real test I had for my Predator upgrade and it performed well until the governor linkage spring started to ice up. I had the same problems describe above in this post. Ice was forming on the top of the fan housing. The spring sits right on top of this.
> 
> I was wiping area down with a finger periodically or flat screw driver when the ice really built up.
> 
> ...


 

I have the heater box back on mine again. I installed a stock jet and gave it a try with the heater box and it had a slight surge so I opened it to .029 and it runs well. I've also added a shroud that wraps around the 3 exposed sides of gas tank to protect the throttle return & governor springs. I also cut channels into the heater box to allow some heat to escape as well as open up the air flow. Through the research that I've done it seems that this engine absolutely loves to breathe.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

HJames said:


> I have the heater box back on mine again. I installed a stock jet and gave it a try with the heater box and it had a slight surge so I opened it to .029 and it runs well. I've also added a shroud that wraps around the 3 exposed sides of gas tank to protect the throttle return & governor springs. I also cut channels into the heater box to allow some heat to escape as well as open up the air flow. Through the research that I've done it seems that this engine absolutely loves to breathe.


Seems kinda like you are doing this all trial and error, which is how many did it before the formula for that engine was found. It's been done a bunch of times, .032 jet (with shrouds to keep the governor and springs from icing is great) with the air filter removed is what people have found works fantastic, and it's here on a few different threads. The air box thing is pretty cool indeed but it's not needed. It's nice to experiment but seems like the wheel has already been invented and you are reinventing the wheel with your own formula. 

That said, if you are having fun that's all that matters  Might try looking at the setup that Honda offers from factory, and copy it on your 212. It's all good if you just want to play with different configurations too to find out what you personally prefer ;-)

If you really want things to work and not take the extra time to do the trial-and-error thing just go with what's been found to work.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

HJames said:


> I have the heater box back on mine again. I installed a stock jet and gave it a try with the heater box and it had a slight surge so I opened it to .029 and it runs well. I've also added a shroud that wraps around the 3 exposed sides of gas tank to protect the throttle return & governor springs. I also cut channels into the heater box to allow some heat to escape as well as open up the air flow. Through the research that I've done it seems that this engine absolutely loves to breathe.


NR racing put a low restriction K&N filter and jetted the carburetor richer and did a base line dyno on the 212cc Predator and found it was making 9hp without touching any of the internals. Just better breathing and 9hp. No wonder it was flipping people off with wheelies on the mini bike.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Pathfinder13 said:


> Seems kinda like you are doing this all trial and error, which is how many did it before the formula for that engine was found. It's been done a bunch of times, .032 jet (with shrouds to keep the governor and springs from icing is great) with the air filter removed is what people have found works fantastic, and it's here on a few different threads. The air box thing is pretty cool indeed but it's not needed. It's nice to experiment but seems like the wheel has already been invented and you are reinventing the wheel with your own formula.
> 
> That said, if you are having fun that's all that matters  Might try looking at the setup that Honda offers from factory, and copy it on your 212. It's all good if you just want to play with different configurations too to find out what you personally prefer ;-)
> 
> If you really want things to work and not take the extra time to do the trial-and-error thing just go with what's been found to work.


I just did an aluminum shroud between the gas tank and engine for both snowblowers and I never experienced any problems even one day I was running it for 2 hours while it was still snowing out a bit. The governor lever is right under the gas tank. Just protect it with the shroud and you will have no problems.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

Pathfinder13 said:


> HJames said:
> 
> 
> > I have the heater box back on mine again. I installed a stock jet and gave it a try with the heater box and it had a slight surge so I opened it to .029 and it runs well. I've also added a shroud that wraps around the 3 exposed sides of gas tank to protect the throttle return & governor springs. I also cut channels into the heater box to allow some heat to escape as well as open up the air flow. Through the research that I've done it seems that this engine absolutely loves to breathe.
> ...


I appreciate your advice. I've been running this set-up for just about a year and it's worked out well for me. I ran it for 5 hours last week during the Blizzard and it ran full load with no frozen springs. I agree that it was a lot of trial and error, but when I did my repower project there wasn't as much information on the subject.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

GustoGuy said:


> NR racing put a low restriction K&N filter and jetted the carburetor richer and did a base line dyno on the 212cc Predator and found it was making 9hp without touching any of the internals. Just better breathing and 9hp. No wonder it was flipping people off with wheelies on the mini bike.


 That is impressive and not totally surprising, as I am running without a filter and .034 main jet. (I have not yet checked the plug to see if I am rich or lean). After using it this week I would not be surprised if it is putting out more than 6.5 HP.

This past week in New England has been a huge test and it has done well.
It handled the EOD snow with a full bucket in 3rd speed.
It does not throw real far but I have not installed an impeller kit, yet. Plus I don't want to throw real far in many cases as it will end up on my neighbors drive way. I need to throw with some precision.
It has been a time saver when I compare it to my 5 hp Tecumseh engine.

As I said earlier my only real concern is the icing around the spring and throttle mechanism. Surprisingly, I have not had any build up of snow or ice around the governor link on the right side under the tank. It is pretty much in the area that sits between the tank and the air intake.

I did see the shrouding that both Gusto and Pathfinder came up with. I like how Pathfinder used heavy duty Velcro on the gas tank. Brilliantly simple. Hjames's pioneering work should not go unnoticed either. You all have given me some ideas to spring board off of.
In my shrouding process I was thinking of using rubber foam insulation strip material around the gas tank top and top of the air intake to prevent snow melt from dripping on to the areas of concern. I found I was constantly wiping them down to ultimately prevent water or icing on the spring.

One other observation.....when it runs out of gas it still seems to have quite a bit still in the tank......I may be wrong but it seems like a 1/4 tank or just a bit less. anyone else notice that?

When I get it all worked out I will post some pics.

Continuous improvement is not always a straight line.


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## Bob E (Jun 9, 2014)

When the snow first started falling I was having trouble with the governor linkage icing up on the b&s my snowthrower was repowered with. After a few pieces of duck tape it hasn't been a problem since. It also needs a more water resistant sparkplug boot. For now some electrical tape does the job. When the warmer months roll around I will have to make up something a little more permanent.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

's amazing what you can do with duct tape. For long term use so I put in a shield


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## Saewoody (Nov 7, 2013)

I never had any issues with my predator last year, but I think it was because most of the storms we had were not really that cold (right around freezing). This year has been a different story. Three good size storms in three weeks, all fairly cold. After the first storm I wasn't happy with how it was running. I needed the choke on a bit to keep it smooth, so the day before the next storm I roughed out a heater box. It's not pretty, but it has worked well so far. It's scrap from a baseboard radiator.


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## Saewoody (Nov 7, 2013)

Won't seem to let me post more than one pic.


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## Saewoody (Nov 7, 2013)

One more. I didn't want to forget their was a hot muffler under the heater box!







In case anyone is wondering. The extra metal square shouldn't be there. When I started drilling holes for the exhaust, I accidentally drilled out my screw hole because I flipped the box the wrong way. The square is essentially a big washer to make up for my mistake. I guess that is what happens when you are working out in a frigid garage. And I would have used both muffler screws instead of just the one, but I put my glove on the exhaust in the previous storm and it melted and hardened into the Phillips head and I didn't feel like messing with it too much. I wish I had read about the member who used the Velcro on the airbox. That is a good idea. I just put a self tapping screw in. I figure I could easily patch it if I ever needed to with rtv, jb weld, etc.


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