# CCR 3650 vs Power Clear 621



## scotzz

Looking at a used 3650 and a new 621. I know major difference is 2-stroke vs 4-stroke engine. Other than that I would like to hear opinions/experiences between the 2. I've hear some say 2-stroke moves heavy/wet snow better than the 4-stroke and vice-versa. I have been using an MTD 21" single-stage with Tecumseh 2 stroke (4.5 hp) for about 8 years and it does well in deep powder and moderately wet snow.


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## detdrbuzzard

are you thinking about getting 621 scotzz
i am interested in the 621 also but there is alway a ccr2450 or 3650 showing up on CL for $200 or less making it hard to justify paying $500+ for a 621


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## scotzz

detdrbuzzard said:


> are you thinking about getting 621 scotzz
> i am interested in the 621 also but there is alway a ccr2450 or 3650 showing up on CL for $200 or less making it hard to justify paying $500+ for a 621


Yes.........exactly the situation I am in.........used 3650 (5-6 years old) that looks in good condition or, a new 621. Mostly wondering if the 621 has more throwing distance than a 3650........4-stroke is nice but I can live with 2-stroke


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## detdrbuzzard

i think the throw distance is about the same. i'm going to go look at a 3650r for $200. and i have a sale for my ccr2000r for $200


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## detdrbuzzard

been looking around and the 621 throws snow up to 35ft or 10.7m (info form wise sales ) and has a 5.5hp motor
the ccr3650 throws snow up to 10.5m or about 35ft, had to go on a european site to get the numbers for the 3650. i guess i could have looked in my owners manual


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## detdrbuzzard

watch this powerclear 421qr, it became the 621
2011 Toro 421QR first use - YouTube


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## detdrbuzzard

621 at work
Toro Powerclear 621qze - YouTube


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## Spring1898

Did anyone definitively answer this question as to the actual performance between the units? I am curious

I would offer that the main advantages of a 2 stroke vs 4 is improved power(and size)-to-weight ratio and less needed parts simplicity. The main disadvantage is lower fuel useage efficiency (burn more gas to generate the same power). So if both engines are rated at the same power, all other things being the same, both should perform equally. The larger size of the 4 stroke would mitigate the increased number of power strokes of the 2 stroke.

In practical terms the only differences I see are that the CCR 2000 weighs about 15-20lbs less than the 621, and appears to be a slightly smaller form factor. If it wasn't for the emissions regulations I imagine that 2 strokes would still be used.

The last thing I will mention is that if you have a CCR 2000 that still has an adjustable carburetor (pre 96) that allows for some improvements on the output if the user knows how to do it. I am waiting to find one so as to compare a "tuned" 2000/3000 to the 3650.


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## Spring1898

I forgot to mention that the 4 stroke has improved torque at any RPM, but operates at a lower RPM (due to more parts) than a 2 stroke. 
So in effect a 2 stroke has an advantage in being able to run up at a higher speed. Most of the snow blower engines run in the high 3000's to the low/mid 4000's.
4 strokes are generally set between 2800-3200 RPM although they can run higher (adjustable carburetors are a plus)
To make up for this I imagine that the 4 stroke models simply use a different crank to paddle turn ratio.

In conclusion, my guess is that the advantages of the 4 stroke can be made to work very well in a single stage snow blower, but the "traditional" method of using 2 strokes being both cheaper and what people were used to, made them the preferred choice until time and emissions standards reversed the cost of using them.


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## detdrbuzzard

i would have to guess that the 421 and 621 perfoorm equal to a 2450 or 3650, the machines they they replace and looking at the numbers i provided they do


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## Spring1898

I concur. Peraonally I would go for the 2 stroke for the simplicity, but If it is in good shape and cheap go for it.


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## detdrbuzzard

i hear people say that the 4 stroke engines are quieter but i couldn't say. most everyone around me either has an older single stage two storke or an older two stage four stroke


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## Spring1898

I could see that. Mufflers being equal, the higher RPM and more power strokes could mean more noise for the 2 stroke.
But I use ear protection anyway so it makes no difference to me.
I will just have to get a 4 stroke Toro and find out


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## detdrbuzzard

Spring1898 said:


> I could see that. Mufflers being equal, the higher RPM and more power strokes could mean more noise for the 2 stroke.
> But I use ear protection anyway so it makes no difference to me.
> I will just have to get a 4 stroke Toro and find out


i'm not looking to get a 621 for about 10 years. by then i'll know if the chinees motors on them are junk or not


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## Spring1898

Well if the option opens up for a price that I can sell it again at if I didn't like it, I don't think I would turn down the opportunity. Some of them are going on ebay some assembly required for about $300. It might be worth it to snag one.


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## detdrbuzzard

Spring1898 said:


> Well if the option opens up for a price that I can sell it again at if I didn't like it, I don't think I would turn down the opportunity. Some of them are going on ebay some assembly required for about $300. It might be worth it to snag one.


 around here there are so many single stage snowblowers in the $100 - $200 range that trying to sell one for much more is almost impossable. there was a toro 824xl on cl last week for $250. last year before i got my 826 there was an ariens st824 and the toro 826 were going for $200. so i don't want to buy a new 621 for $300 and not like it but the time is comming when you'll have to upgrade to it or some other 4 stroke single stage


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## govenatorx

I have the Lawnboy 720e, which is a Toro CCR3650 just shrouded in green. It is the 2 stroke motor. I can honestly say that when it spins up you know it is tossing snow. I think its performance in 8" or less is outstanding. I then looked at two youtube videos of the 621 and can say that the performance in 3 inches of snow was lackluster at best. I will forever rebuild my Lawnboy/Toro CCR3650 and be happy with it. I was very disappointed with what I saw from the 621. And nothing smells better than 2 stroke exhaust.


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## Spring1898

Oh I wouldn't count out the 621 entirely. If it was that video with the slushie snow I was still impressed. But if you want more powder there is this video





 
I will keep my machines alive as long as I can. I just like trying new things.


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## detdrbuzzard

i like trying new things too and i posted a vid of a 421 and a 621 in action. to me they both looked like they throw snow as well as the 2450 or 3650 but right now this is on cl
Ariens snowblower
8hp Electric Start 2-Stage Snowblower


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## Spring1898

I remember working on those old buggers. They were tanks in more than one way. They weren't smooth or flashy, but they could blow.


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## govenatorx

I just came back to this thread. I just ordered a Toro 621 QZE for my mother in law and will be able to give a comparison report in the near future.


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## detdrbuzzard

govenatorx said:


> I just came back to this thread. I just ordered a Toro 621 QZE for my mother in law and will be able to give a comparison report in the near future.


 so have you used the 621 yet


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## govenatorx

I just did. I can say that it has a lot more torque than my 2 stroke, 141 cc Lawn Boy (same as Toro CCR 3650). It does not bog down in the heavier snow as easily as the 2 stroke and is a lot quieter. I like it's performance as it throws the snow just as far, and maintains RPM far better. My mother in law also likes it and says it is easy to handle. I still like the 2 stroke just for the smell of the exhaust!


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