# Single vs Two Stage for My Conditions



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

To start with, I am originally from Northern Illinois and moved to the Shenandoah Valley this past Summer from Maryland. In Maryland I used a Toro Wheel Horse 523Dxi (diesel) tractor with a single stage snow thrower, and an '08 Ariens 924DLE. I would clear my driveway plus five neighbors. In nine years we had two blizzards of 36+" of snow, and some winters next to nothing including one with about 2" of snow. It was feast or famine most winters.

Before moving , I had sold my tractor as we were moving from 2 acres to a suburban lot. Then before winter was over I decided to sell the Ariens as well. Stupid move! My plan was to get a BCS or Grillo walk behind tractor for year-round use. That way I wouldn't spend my retirement time maintaining multiple engines. Our current driveway is concrete 20' x 60'. Last season the biggest snow was 8" in March. But so far this year we have have had 2" and a 10" snowstorms. The average snowfall is 26" and the max in one storm was 22".

The BCS/Grillo is out as it would be hard to justify the expense amortized over the years ahead. My wife feels that a single stage would be sufficient but I remember my days of using a Toro S-200 in Illinois trying to break drifts. The 924DLE had Automatic Traction Control so I hate to step down to axle pins. I also want my wife to be able to use it and not be afraid of it. She could handle the 924DLE. The current Ariens Auto-Turn seems to get mixed reviews.

My one neighbor uses a single stage as a baseline. I am open to suggestion but so far I am down to four possibilities taking into account my wife's suggestion. The Honda HS720 vs Ariens Compact 24 vs Husqvarna ST224P vs Husqvarna ST324P. The first three are within $10.00 of each other, whereas the ST324P is about $475 more but adds the hydro. I lean towards the ST324P given the uncertainty of snowfall in the area plus the ease of the hydro and the "power steering."


----------



## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Buy the single stage your wife will be most comfortable using also. Then, in the summer months, find a used 2 stage for those "Armageddon" moments.


----------



## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

I have a st230p @$1200, a step down would be a 220p [email protected]$200 less, above would be a 300series @ $1700 with the hydro, the trigger steering I think is the best opt, a pull of a trigger and steers for you. a 9.5hp I think it can do most snow amounts. (This is the only new machine I’ve ever owned)


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


----------



## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Or a toro qxe full size


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


----------



## Cutter (Mar 29, 2017)

gibbs296 said:


> Buy the single stage your wife will be most comfortable using also. Then, in the summer months, find a used 2 stage for those "Armageddon" moments.



My wife wouldn't use it, unless it came with a couch that was pulled behind it, and I don't think single stage would have enough power to do it.:sad2:


----------



## Cutter (Mar 29, 2017)

gibbs296 said:


> Buy the single stage your wife will be most comfortable using also. Then, in the summer months, find a used 2 stage for those "Armageddon" moments.



I would say, buy it once, and buy it right. Buy a 2 stage, good quality, Ariens, Toro, or Honda. Any of the 3 will suit you fine, and should last 25 + years if it's looked after properly.:smile_big:


----------



## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

I thought the OP said he wants something his wife could use also. The average snowfall is 26 inches. A 2 stage would be like a battleship in a pond. efisher and the QXE is a great idea.


----------



## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

In researching, I came across the Toro Snowmaster 724 and 824 QXE. Interesting concept but near to being sold out for the season. That is not to say my other choices aren't also. Also, other than the Honda, I can buy at the Blue and Grey box store using my military discount. 

I do have a 42" dozer blade on my tractor (wasn't attached for the 10" storm!) that I maybe could weather through the season if need be. It also means only shoveling the 20' walk. But I like to be able to blow snow so that there is room for more as the season reaches it's peak and the snow doesn't melt.


----------



## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Snowblowersdirect.com has them


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

I read some more about the Snowmaster. It seems Toro has moved to not engineer in shear bolts on their Snowmaster and two-stage products. What relieves the stress then? Belt slipping or gears breaking?


----------



## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

It just kills the engine. Remove what stopped her, restart the motor, back to snowblowing. ....https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/toro-snowblowers/138961-no-shear-pins-every-cause-problem.html


----------



## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

They back the strength of the gear box, so no pins


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


----------



## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

One day I'll own a Toro OXE.... 
There's one on Clist for $700..2 Yr old machine. I'll wait. 


Located in Jefferson, Md.
https://york.craigslist.org/for/d/jefferson-toro-snowmaster-snowblower/6745389344.html
Snagged a pic..


----------



## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

2 stage might be overkill one storm and a life saver the next 
toro has them direct on line, order online they ship to the nearest dealer for set up and delivery to you .plus the dealer shows you how to operate it when it's delivered


----------



## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

shallowwatersailor said:


> I read some more about the Snowmaster. It seems Toro has moved to not engineer in shear bolts on their Snowmaster and two-stage products. What relieves the stress then? Belt slipping or gears breaking?



How often do you break pins not often if doing your own driveway and make sure its clear prior
what if they gearbox does break then you have no blower
silly to not have pins easier to change pins 5 min then be not able to use the blower for god knows how long
just silly not having pins


----------



## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I know there's always the possibility of breaking one but I *still* have the original pack of sheer pins I bought for my very first snowblower 25 years ago. Never have broken a pin and believe me, I have done a *lot *of snow removal of all types from light, fluffy 3" snows to frozen piles of EOD.


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

I broke a shear pin on my Ariens in MD. It was my fault though and shows that there can always be the unexpected. Prior to a storm I would always use good practices and survey for any items on the driveway such as tree branches, stones, and newspapers. We only had a Saturday and Sunday delivery for the newspaper so not really an issue. Except when we had a decent snowfall overnight to Saturday morning. I forgot that the newspaper delivery was around 4:30-5:00 am with it still snowing. Well I got out to blow around nine with an additional load of snow that covered the newspaper. Yep, I found it!


----------



## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

1132le said:


> shallowwatersailor said:
> 
> 
> > I read some more about the Snowmaster. It seems Toro has moved to not engineer in shear bolts on their Snowmaster and two-stage products. What relieves the stress then? Belt slipping or gears breaking?
> ...


Toros not shear bolts can break. I’ve replaced 1 on a friends machine. I’m not sure what grade bolts they use but they can break.


----------



## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

micah68kj said:


> One day I'll own a Toro OXE....
> There's one on Clist for $700..2 Yr old machine. I'll wait.
> 
> 
> ...


I would wait for better prices, Sold that exact same machine for $400 a few months ago. So $700 is WAY overpriced to me.


----------



## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Dauntae said:


> I would wait for better prices, Sold that exact same machine for $400 a few months ago. So $700 is WAY overpriced to me.


Oh. Believe me, I will. I don't have $700 in my last *dozen blowers combined. * I just said that I'd own one *one day* but not that one. :wink2:


----------



## Slinger (Oct 9, 2014)

Get the single stage. You have a small driveway. It will handle 90% of everything you get and if you have a large storm just don't wait until it's 2 feet deep. Hit it a couple of times. With a SS it will take you all of 10-15 minutes to do your driveway. SO much easier to handle especially for the wife and then in the off season you can practically hang the machine on hooks on the wall of a garage or shed to get it out of the way. I have a similar size drive with similar conditions. My 2 stage Ariens is a waste...don't need it. My Toro Snowmaster 824 is much faster but still doesn't clear down to the pavement like a traditional SS machine does. Unless you get some huge EOD, the SS should be all you ever really need. Good luck with your decision!


----------



## melson (Feb 9, 2015)

My $02: I have both a single-stage and 11 hp two-stage. The single stage, an old JD, is unstoppable. And, despite what you might read it will blow even deep snow (with the caveat that it won't blow the snow very far). That old thing has seen plenty of deep snow; it's my my go-to for storms of light fluff up to 10 inches or so. On one occasion it did the job after 22 inches of snowfall. But that required a LOT of pushing and it wouldn't throw the snow more than 10 feet, which worked for me at the time.
A single-stage shines in *quickly and completely clearing lightweight fluff up to 12 inches as long as you don't need to throw it far. Typically, my single-stage will clear snow twice as fast as the two-stage simply because it's so easy to maneuver and also because you can push it as fast as you want. When I can hang it on the wall - it's only 75 lbs. Try that with a two-stage! 
Bottom Line: If you have a small driveway or walkways and/or don't need to throw the snow high or long distance (20-30 feet), and especially if you don't typically get wet, heavy snowstorms, then a single-stage is the cats meow.


----------



## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

I'm a single stage guy. Lighter, more compact, still plenty of power. The 2 stage sits in the corner kind of like the old hot rod you drive maybe a couple of times a year.


----------



## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Single stage all the way. As others have mentioned, a high quality single stage machine from either Honda or Toro will easily handle 95% of the snowfalls we get north of Boston. In fact, very rarely do I need to dust off the 2-stage machine. Hondo or Toro single stages are quick, powerful, easy to maneuver, and clear snow and slush right to bare pavement. My only suggestion would be to get a larger unit like the Honda HS720 or the Toro 721. Both machines perform like champs. Both machines will easily start on half a pull of the recoil cord, so electric start isn't really isn't a necessity on single stage machines. Looks like there's a barely used Toro 721 with electric start couple hours away from you posted on Craigslist for $250 which is a great price: https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/hsh/d/toro-power-clear-721-e-snowthrower/6773844341.html


----------



## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Singles do work great especially if you can use it a couple times during a storm to keep the amount per run down, but those over night storms that dump a couple feet ata time might be tough for a single


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


----------



## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

Dauntae said:


> I would wait for better prices, Sold that exact same machine for $400 a few months ago. So $700 is WAY overpriced to me.


Here's the same thing brand new for $750 at the orange box store so yeah, way overpriced:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Toro-Sn...-Single-Stage-Gas-Snow-Blower-36002/206125346


----------



## LawnToro (Dec 28, 2018)

I have a single stage Toro Power Clear. I used to have a Jacobsen Sno burst, which is the same setup as the S200, and the difference is night and day. Being in the Quad Cities, a decent winter is always a possibility. I use mine about 3-6 times a year, with snowfalls typically under 6", with exception of one or two of the snowfalls. Recently, we had 13.9" of heavy, wet snow, and my power clear had no issue going through it what so ever. I didn't even have to push that much. I cleared a total of 15 driveways, and it never skipped a beat.


----------



## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Wow 15 with that!?


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


----------



## LawnToro (Dec 28, 2018)

e.fisher26 said:


> Wow 15 with that!?
> 
> 
> ——————————————
> ...


Yep. And a few of them were 3 cars wide by 3 cars deep.


----------



## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

LawnToro said:


> Yep. And a few of them were 3 cars wide by 3 cars deep.


Couldn't agree more. People way underestimate the clearing power of Honda and Toro single stage machines. You really have to try one firsthand to understand just how powerful and efficient these machines can be. Yes, hard packed EOD can be a challenge for a single stage machine, but for 95% of the snowfalls we get in New England .... single stage is my "Go-To" machine. Plus single stage machines are very versatile and compact. You can fold down the handle and throw it in the back seat of your car or SUV if you need to dig someone out or bring the machine in for service.


----------



## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Also I don't think you could find a much easier machine to do maintenance on. Light enough to toss up on the workbench. No fancy lift table needed. Lot of good things about a single.


----------



## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

The guy was running it with plastic still on carb/muffler cover.

Looks like a good option.

Per 2019 Consumer Report buying guide (take with a grain of salt)

Compact two Stage(24 inch):
1. Toro Power Max 824OE-$800
2. Honda HSS724AW-$2200
3. Craftsman 86640-$800
4.Troy-Bilt 2410-$600(Best Buy- average noise...other 4 below average noise level)
5. Ariens 920025-$700(Ariens below average removal Speed?)

All 5 recommended by CR

Single Stage:

1. Toro power Clear 721-$700
2. Honda Hs720AS-$700
3. Toro Snow Master 724QXE-$750(speed of removal, and Plow pile(EOD) removal below average)

First Two recommended by CR

I had the guide figured I would share for what it is worth.


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

I have been reading everyone's responses and thank you all for the input. No decision has been made yet - although I have caught myself a few times! The real stopper of a decision has been the weather forecast into mid-January. 40's and 50's with just rain for precipitation.


Now I know the weather won't last so I am still on the hunt. Twice I have decided to go all out and pull the plug on a Husqvarna ST324P (24" because of the nose-heavy design and the possibility of my wife using it), or then a reality check on a Honda HS 720AS. However I have also been checking CL and tomorrow might look at a well kept 10hp 29" Farm King (Murray, not MTD) with a Tecumseh that is close-by. Probably overkill (just following what Gibbs296 suggested for a Snow-mageddon) but relatively cheap and storm peace of mind. Then also to get the Honda for ease of use. But then there is a Honda HS35 about 80 miles away that claims new rubber augers for two "Benjamins."


Today went to the Husky dealer to look at the ST327P that was in stock again. I prefer the ST3XXP as I am turned off by the Husky ST2XXP use of plastics for the dash - but like the height adjustable handlebars. After that I also stopped at the Ariens dealer to check out the Ariens Compact 24. No new ones in-stock but did have a lightly used trade-in that appeared to be a 2016. It has the 11" impeller and 208cc AX engine. Same price as a New Honda HS720AS (discounted price). Spoke to the salesman about the history and the original owner needed a bigger machine. The tires still have rubber hair on the edges and it looks brand new! He was willing to drop it another $50. Checked the 2018 specs for the Compact 24 and it now has a 12" impeller and a 223cc AX engine with an additional .5 ft-lb of torque. New would be about $175 more. Is it worth it for the extra inch and torque? Decisions! Decisions!


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

Pulled the plug today, after doing far too much tire kicking and researching, and ordered an _Ariens Professional 21 SSRC. _No one in the area had one in stock it so it had to be ordered. The weather forecast continues to just be mid-40's with rain at times until January 18. That makes it hard to justify twice the price on a new two-stage. But that is not to say I won't get one in the future!


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Awesome, congrats! These threads really make me want to get a single-stage  Preferably a fairly powerful one, following the suggestions here, so it could used in bigger storms.


----------



## vmaxed (Feb 23, 2014)

shallowwatersailor said:


> Pulled the plug today, after doing far too much tire kicking and researching, and ordered an _Ariens Professional 21 SSRC. _No one in the area had one in stock it so it had to be ordered. The weather forecast continues to just be mid-40's with rain at times until January 18. That makes it hard to justify twice the price on a new two-stage. But that is not to say I won't get one in the future!


ccasion14: Congrats!


----------



## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

I agree, these single stage units do not get the credit they deserve. I own a Toro 721 R-C (212cc) and have blown everything from slush (3') to 12" fluff or wet snow (20'), it will not give up no matter how hard I use it. What I mean is I've rammed it into plow mounds ramming high and coming back into it low and whatever gets into the housing it would throw out. You could also use a metal shovel and knock down the mound and then blow through it.
Bottom line is if it's going to storm you can just go out 2/3 times and make quick work of it.
That Ariens pro looks like a nice machine, good luck with it.


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

Yesterday I took delivery of my new Ariens Professional 21. Just in time for this weekends 8+" that are forecast! It looks to be designed for ease of service and assembled well. Look to the Ariens Forum discussion area for my initial thoughts on this new piece of equipment.


I forgot to include photos of my main pieces that I use to use before selling them in anticipation of our move last year.


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Awesome, enjoy it! Did you add a remote chute deflector to the tractor-mounted blower? And is that actually a diesel? 

Slightly ironic that VA is going to get 8" this weekend, and we haven't had that much total yet here in MA


----------



## zandor (Dec 15, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Slightly ironic that VA is going to get 8" this weekend, and we haven't had that much total yet here in MA


The only snow we've gotten in Chicago so far this year that was worth blowing was 6" of extra wet stuff with an inch of slush on the bottom at the end of November. We're probably around 8" total too. Maybe 10", but the rest has just been a little at a time. It's been a strange winter.


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

zandor said:


> The only snow we've gotten in Chicago so far this year that was worth blowing was 6" of extra wet stuff with an inch of slush on the bottom at the end of November. We're probably around 8" total too. Maybe 10", but the rest has just been a little at a time. It's been a strange winter.



I originally bought the 924DLE in Chicago as my wife was commuting to the DC area that year and I didn't want to shovel the typical weekly Chicago winter snow by myself. I actually tried to sell it before moving to Maryland figuring milder winters but didn't and ended up taking it with us. Good thing as the next winter in MD was the "Snomageddon" with 36+" that shut everything down! We were snowed in for five days until the MD county plow got to us. They couldn't handle snow very well.


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

RedOctobyr said:


> Awesome, enjoy it! Did you add a remote chute deflector to the tractor-mounted blower? And is that actually a diesel?
> 
> Slightly ironic that VA is going to get 8" this weekend, and we haven't had that much total yet here in MA


Yes, that is a linear actuator that I installed on the snowthrower. The tractor was a 1998 Toro Wheel Horse 523Dxi with a Daihatsu DM-950D diesel engine rated at 26 hp. It was only rated at 23 hp in the sales literature then downsized to an actual 23 hp engine in subsequent years. I have videos on YouTube of clearing snow with it.


----------



## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

Just to close this thread, I found a lightly used Simplicity 1226L locally on C/L. Due to the lack of snow in my area, I got a really good deal. Now it just needs to snow!


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Looks great, hopefully it will serve you well!


----------



## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

Wow, from the photo it looks brand new!

We're not too far north of you and are forecast for one to three inches of snow tonight & tomorrow. But looking at what I think is your location all you're going to get is ice. Bummer.:sad2:

https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=38.0521&lon=-79.0131


----------

