# Steep Driveway: Track Drive?



## snowofnywinter (Feb 13, 2021)

I have a steep 20% grade driveway, currently I use a single stage snow blower, it will blow the snow fine (for snow less than 12inches) but I have to push pretty hard on my uphill passes. Also it's not handling the end-of-driveway section well since it's usually very wet/heavy and taller than 12 inches. I'm thinking about replacing the single stage blower with a two stage blower that can self propel.

But I have read that even two stage blowers lose traction on steep driveways. And it seems that track blower solves that problem. However, track blowers are usually more expensive, and I don't want to spend too much money on this.

Another idea I read online is I can make one downhill pass and then "drive" the snow blower uphill using the cleared path without blowing snow. This sounds great in theory but does it actually work? Won't the tire lose traction as well? From my understanding even if the path is cleared of snow, there will be ice/residual-snow on the driveway that makes it hard to drive uphill, even without auger load. Is my understanding wrong?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

bite the bullet buddy and get a tracked machine.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Though tracks are great on slopes they are not necessary. Any snowblower will come with snow hog tires at a minimum which will probably work fine. But I can honestly say that Xtracs are much better.
You can always add chains which are highly effective. Though can be a bit annoying at times.

I grew up with a crazy steep driveway as well. My father had a st724 with turf tires and chains were a must. I bought him an MTD gold with snow hogs in 2010 and it’ll blow uphill okay. As he got older I tubed the tires and filled them with washer fluid. It lowered the center of gravity and added some weight to the wheels which improved traction ALOT. It blows up hill with confidence but still doesn’t compare to my other machines that I installed Xtracs on.

Moral of the story If you must buy a wheeled machine make sure it has Xtracs. And use low gear uphill as to not break traction.


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## robs9 (Sep 5, 2018)

You made me go look at the Xtracs. I think that looks exactly like the tire that came on my Toro 1028 Power Max.

One question, how do you fill them with washer fluid? 

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

The fastest way to get them filled is to take the wheels to a big tire shop and have them fill them for you.

Otherwise you will need to visit www.gemplers.com and buy a tire filling valve and a small tire adapter to fill it. You will need a small length of garden hose and a funnel pushed into the garden hose end to fill each tire with some windshield washer fluid; you will use most of a gallon to fill both of the tires.

The tire filling valve has an air release valve that you depress to release the air in the tire as you fill it. The rule of thumb is to only fill it 75 percent full and then reinstall the valve stem and then fill it back up with air to the recommended tire pressure.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

snowofnywinter said:


> I have a steep 20% grade driveway, currently I use a single stage snow blower, it will blow the snow fine (for snow less than 12inches) but I have to push pretty hard on my uphill passes. Also it's not handling the end-of-driveway section well since it's usually very wet/heavy and taller than 12 inches. I'm thinking about replacing the single stage blower with a two stage blower that can self propel.
> 
> But I have read that even two stage blowers lose traction on steep driveways. And it seems that track blower solves that problem. However, track blowers are usually more expensive, and I don't want to spend too much money on this.
> 
> Another idea I read online is I can make one downhill pass and then "drive" the snow blower uphill using the cleared path without blowing snow. This sounds great in theory but does it actually work? Won't the tire lose traction as well? From my understanding even if the path is cleared of snow, there will be ice/residual-snow on the driveway that makes it hard to drive uphill, even without auger load. Is my understanding wrong?


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Are you sure the grade is 20%??
Dont get rid of the single stage machine as you will always need and want a back up machine.
You can always add snow chains to the tires on a snow blower.
You have to plan on spending much more than 1K for a tracked blower if that is what you really want.
You and I have to deal with New York snow and ice that has been hit with rock salt and that makes for a real mess most of the time.
You can purchase a good wheel drive snow blower that will work well for you as long as you go slowly and take half cuts when clearing the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER and feeding its remains to the little moat monsters.

I would suggest that you look at the Toro line and order one from Toro directly and have them ship it to the Toro local dealer for you at no charge to you and then they can finish assembling it and you will have a 3 year warranty on a new machine that is ready to work.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I built a trick little setup for filling tires. I took an old air tank and welded a o2 sensor bung to use for filling the tank with fluid. Then I fill it with about 20psi of air and flip it to feed the liquid through the hose. The hose has a ball valve to stop flow, and connects to a tire filling valve with a small bleeder on it. I filled probably 30 tires so far for friends and family. A couple snow blowers but mostly garden and lawn tractor tires. Huge improvement in traction. Especially on hilly lawn AKA mine. 

Milton S-466 Tire Valve Adapter Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000J1SQX...abc_7HXH9893TMK9DTV2427G?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

drmerdp said:


> Though tracks are great on slopes they are not necessary. Any snowblower will come with snow hog tires at a minimum which will probably work fine. But I can honestly say that Xtracs are much better.
> You can always add chains which are highly effective. Though can be a bit annoying at times.
> 
> I grew up with a crazy steep driveway as well. My father had a st724 with turf tires and chains were a must. I bought him an MTD gold with snow hogs in 2010 and it’ll blow uphill okay. As he got older I tubed the tires and filled them with washer fluid. It lowered the center of gravity and added some weight to the wheels which improved traction ALOT. It blows up hill with confidence but still doesn’t compare to my other machines that I installed Xtracs on.
> ...



I AGREE!!! First, my old Bolen 32’’ would NOT get up my driveway without chains. My recently new (2018) Ariens 28 Pro has zero troubles all without chains.

Second, I would listen to the many who have tracked snowblower discussions. No, I have never used one but just can imagine they must be dogs when making turns. Simple things in life always seem to work the best


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

foggysail said:


> Second, I would listen to the many who have tracked snowblower discussions. No, I have never used one but just can imagine they must be dogs when making turns. Simple things in life always seem to work the best.


Not if it’s an HSS😎


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## Klusto (Feb 11, 2021)

I have a very long and steep gravel driveway. I'm not sure the grade, but most of my friends can't get up it in the summer. I have to get in the drivers seat to get them to the top and then walk back down. I got a hand-me-down track 2 stage snow blower and won't go back. Yes, it's a beast to turn. It's a beast to move without turning on. But it also has never ever slipped. I'm now looking at getting a newer version with power steering, and they are priced very close to other new models without tracks.


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## ou2mame (Dec 23, 2019)

my driveway is fairly steep... Steep like if I don't have the snowblower in gear, I'll slide down with it sometimes. I have an old ariens st824 and I put new xtrac tires on it. They hold us back from sliding. Tracks look cool though.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

snowofnywinter said:


> I have a steep 20% grade driveway


That's not just steep, that's scary steep if it's really 20%... That's a 1:5 ratio which is more than 10 degrees! At least it's not 20 degrees!


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

tabora said:


> That's not just steep, that's scary steep if it's really 20%... That's a 1:5 ratio which is more than 10 degrees! At least it's not 20 degrees!
> View attachment 175729



INTERESTING!!! I am going to a level and a tape measure to calculate my driveway's slope. One thing for sure, I doubt it is anywhere near 20. If my machine is not in gear and I am not holding it back, I will quickly find it at the bottom of my driveway.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

drmerdp said:


> Not if it’s an HSS😎





drmerdp said:


> Not if it’s an HSS😎


No challenge here, I have never used one. If I was to consider purchasing one though, I would get as much info as I could from those who have them.


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## snowofnywinter (Feb 13, 2021)

tabora said:


> That's not just steep, that's scary steep if it's really 20%... That's a 1:5 ratio which is more than 10 degrees! At least it's not 20 degrees!
> View attachment 175729


Thanks for your plot. This is a nice plot!.
Yes, it is around 1:5 ~ 1:6 ratio, so effectively 16%-20% grade slop. I have a 50ft driveway that the top of the drive way (garage) is around 1-story high and the end of the driveway at the road is ground level. It is steep, and walking on it during snow days are really tough.

That's why I'd like to ask other's opinion before I buy anything, the worst thing can happen is I spent $1000+ and it doesn't work. The budget I have is <$1200. and that can't buy a track model.


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 7, 2016)

snowofnywinter said:


> I have a steep 20% grade driveway, currently I use a single stage snow blower, it will blow the snow fine (for snow less than 12inches) but I have to push pretty hard on my uphill passes. Also it's not handling the end-of-driveway section well since it's usually very wet/heavy and taller than 12 inches. I'm thinking about replacing the single stage blower with a two stage blower that can self propel.
> 
> But I have read that even two stage blowers lose traction on steep driveways. And it seems that track blower solves that problem. However, track blowers are usually more expensive, and I don't want to spend too much money on this.
> 
> Another idea I read online is I can make one downhill pass and then "drive" the snow blower uphill using the cleared path without blowing snow. This sounds great in theory but does it actually work? Won't the tire lose traction as well? From my understanding even if the path is cleared of snow, there will be ice/residual-snow on the driveway that makes it hard to drive uphill, even without auger load. Is my understanding wrong?


I have two steep driveways on my route. I do have a tracked machine but have found I don't use it much on these driveways. I prefer the single stage instead. However, instead of using the traditional "work outwards from a center line" pattern, I use a "diagonal downhill pattern." Here is a diagram of how it works. Perhaps you want to try this approach before investing in a new machine: The Path to a Cleaner Driveway - How to Clear Snow From Driveways


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

foggysail said:


> No, I have never used one but just can imagine they must be dogs when making turns.


Not at all, here's a quick example of a 180 degree turn with an HSS1332AATD...


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## snowofnywinter (Feb 13, 2021)

CalgaryPT said:


> I have two steep driveways on my route. I do have a tracked machine but have found I don't use it much on these driveways. I prefer the single stage instead. However, instead of using the traditional "work outwards from a center line" pattern, I use a "diagonal downhill pattern." Here is a diagram of how it works. Perhaps you want to try this approach before investing in a new machine: The Path to a Cleaner Driveway - How to Clear Snow From Driveways


Thank you for your suggestion. During last snow I actually tried a different pattern that's similar to the "diagonal", instead of doing up & down hill passes that requires me to push really hard uphill, I did left & right passes, like this:
-----------------------
-----------------------
---- garage --------
-----------------------
-----------------------
|============>|
|<============|
|============>|
|<============|

It worked fine for the top half of my driveway which is less steep, for the bottom half of my drive way, the single stage snow blower can't make left->right passes anymore, it slipped down the hill immediately, like this:
-----------------------
-----------------------
---- garage --------
-----------------------
-----------------------

```
|============>|
|<============|
|============>|
|           ==|
|          =  |
|        ==   |
|     <==     |
```
Which requires me to pull it back to left-right pass really really hard (the single stage is 80lbs!)


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## CalgaryPT (Dec 7, 2016)

snowofnywinter said:


> Thank you for your suggestion. During last snow I actually tried a different pattern that's similar to the "diagonal", instead of doing up & down hill passes that requires me to push really hard uphill, I did left & right passes, like this:
> -----------------------
> -----------------------
> ---- garage --------
> ...


Mine is the same weight. I find the downhill diagonal is best. But I get the concern and see where a powdered machine may be a necessity. As mentioned, don't get rid of the single stage. Best of luck.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Hmm, I estimate my parents driveway is 15%. 20% is pretty wild.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

tabora said:


> Not at all, here's a quick example of a 180 degree turn with an HSS1332AATD...


Tabora—- THAT WAS IMPRESSIVE!!!, Thanks


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## Fred9 (Dec 21, 2013)

I am 77 and I have been using an Ariens "deluxe" 8.5 hp 24"with the Hog type tires that I bought for my 60th birthday on the pictured driveway . *I* did slip one night over 10 years ago going up blowing very wet, icy snow. The machine didn't slip, I did. I now wear *Stabilicers. *Yes, I had lived here for about 10 years and thought my driveway was too steep for a snow blower. But a neighbor brought his wheeled Craftsman machine over and it went up an down with no problem.. So I bought the Ariens wheeled blower. I use a faster gear going up. I live in north central CT.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

I have a very steep drive and a tracked snow blower. Works great. Turning is easy once you get it figured out. Check my model listed at the bottom of this post.








Troy-Bilt 28 in. 277 cc Two-Stage Gas Snow Blower with Electric Start and Track Drive and Heated Grips Storm Tracker 2890 - The Home Depot


The Storm Tracker 2890 2-stage snow thrower D-Track drive system creates 50% more ground contact for superior control, traction and durability in all winter conditions. The in-dash remote pitch control



www.homedepot.com


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> Hmm, I estimate my parents driveway is 15%. 20% is pretty wild.


Even wilder... Looks like about it averages about 45 degrees = 100% Grade


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

tabora said:


> Even wilder... Looks like about it averages about 45 degrees = 100% Grade


I had a drive almost that bad when I lived in Eastern Washington state. My cars were always parked in the street during the winter!


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

If you have good traction tires like the 'X-Tracs' a wheel drive should be able to climb that hill.
Track drives are nice for doing steps and steep inclines but they can still lose traction and 'Float' on top of the snow more where a good tire will 'Dig In' and 'Bite' more with less 'Floatation' for good traction.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

tabora said:


> Even wilder... Looks like about it averages about 45 degrees = 100% Grade


I would hate to see how much underbody damage they have on their cars.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

All anybody with a steep driveway needs is this little sweetheart that uses a single stage hydraulic drive snow thrower with carbide cleats to master the terrain.

I have no idea why they took the cowling off this beautiful machine before the picture was taken.


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## Husqvarna_10530SBE (Oct 9, 2015)

tabora said:


> Even wilder... Looks like about it averages about 45 degrees = 100% Grade


I would have built an underground garage with a driveway with a gentle slope to the street. That is ridiculous. That shouldn't pass inspection (assuming one is required).


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Is that pic even real?


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> Is that pic even real?


For your entertainment.




__





steep driveways - Google Search






www.google.com


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> Is that pic even real?


Sadly, yes, and not the worst I've seen. At least it's somewhat contoured... There's one like this on my cottage road, and not even paved...


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

tabora said:


> Sadly, yes, and not the worst I've seen. At least it's somewhat contoured... There's one like this on my cottage road, and not even paved...


lol pure insanity.


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## AclockworkBlue (Nov 26, 2018)

Once you go track, you never go back.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

tabora said:


> Sadly, yes, and not the worst I've seen. At least it's somewhat contoured... There's one like this on my cottage road, and not even paved...


You would need a lifted Jeep to get over the top of that drive without high centering!


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

jonnied12 said:


> You would need a lifted Jeep to get over the top of that drive without high centering!


And think of the poor bumpers/skirts being dragged across that sidewalk at the bottom transition. Yikes! You'd think they would have raised the sidewalk up about 1/3 of the elevation to lessen the slopes and transition angles.


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## Woodpecker (Jan 31, 2021)

I am a track drive believer. My driveway/road is 450'+ and approximately 1/3 is12 degrees+ 1/3 16 degrees and the rest is fairly flat (for my world LOL). I am always wearing IceTreckers on my feet when blowing snow also.Have been dealing with this road for 7 years using a Ariens Compact 24 Trackdrive and in lighter snows6-8" it does Okay at best ,always blowsnow on the downhill but the uphill is hit or miss depending on type of snow which is usually wet, then I probably am returning to top without even trying to clear anything on the 16 degree slope and maybe a half pass or maybe not on the 12 degree. My neighbor will come out with his wheeled 24" Troy built which is way faster than my Ariens but he is fighting it all the time especially if he tries to clear going uphill. We have tried each others machines, I didn't care for his as it takes more effort for the operator ( I'm 68 he's 32) He thought mine was a much smoother process even considering how much slower it was. Anyway tracks are the best in my world and I recently purchased a new Honda HSS 1332at but unfortunately somebody said and I believe him , it won't snow in my part of the world for at least 3 or more years because I have this beast in my garage waiting(impatiently).


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## DEWFPO (Oct 18, 2013)

Wear Stabilicers on your feet and screw ice studs into the snowblowers tire ribs. Easy to do and you can screw as many in as you need for traction. A zig-zag pattern also helps.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

DEWFPO said:


> Wear Stabilicers on your feet and screw ice studs into the snowblowers tire ribs. Easy to do and you can screw as many in as you need for traction. A zig-zag pattern also helps.


The only time I tried those Ice Studs, my tires went flat!


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## RedShift42 (Nov 21, 2013)

My house has a long, uneven dirt driveway with some steep sections. First year here, after exhaustive shopping, I bought the big, all-the-bells-and-whistles John Deere (a rebadged Simplicity, IIRC)— one of the few things I’ve ever bought new.
...And traded it shortly after for a decade-old, stripped-down, tracked HS1132.
The Honda is relatively underpowered, no heated grips, pull-start, pathetic headlight, ridiculous chute control location, yet I’ve never looked back. With the wheeled Deere I always came in the house fatigued and pissed off from fighting it the whole time, The tracked blower, OTOH, is slower but sure-footed and just plain works.

Mind you, in my coastal location we have frequent ice, but the Deere had excellent tires that I added 50 ice screws to. Was a marginal improvement in some respects and created new problems in others (constantly lurching off course on icy cambered uphills). By comparison, my Honda’s tracks have just 24 cheap sheet metal screws for a little extra bite and it’s a joy to use.
IMO, the formula is pretty simple: for flat-ish, uniform surfaces I’d prefer wheels. But for hills & ice, tracks are the clear choice.


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## MartyB913 (Dec 5, 2021)

I'll be honest with you, your driveway doesn't look the best. In fact, it looks terrible. I can imagine how many problems you have in winter when there is ice on the streets because I had precisely the same problem. I bought tires with nails inside, but I always had a problem because it was too steep. I would often have to leave the car on the street, and I was afraid that someone would hit it and damage it. I realized I had to change it, and I called the paving company dublin, which leveled and improved my driveway. I no longer needed to wake up every morning an hour before work to clear the snow and ice on the driveway.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yeah, those pictures have to be photo-shopped .... no way a town would allow that in an inspection. Totally unusable.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Oneacer said:


> Yeah, those pictures have to be photo-shopped .... no way a town would allow that in an inspection. Totally unusable.


Sadly, they are real...


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Well then, that is an expensive joke .....


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

I'm with the garage at street level, cut in under the basement level under the main floor. Thinking "elevator", either for people/stuff or for the cars. We had a home in SoCal we were considering expanding, and one option was to have a full garage level under the hillside home. It was on a steep slope on a steep street, so a gently-sloped driveway into a cut-in-the hill garage level made a lot of sense, until we looked harder into the excavation costs and the need for earthquake survival sitting on pilings and rim footings and walls, with concrete and steel support beams. It looked really cool on the drawings....

And no snow.


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## dcleslie7 (Dec 22, 2021)

tabora said:


> That's not just steep, that's scary steep if it's really 20%... That's a 1:5 ratio which is more than 10 degrees! At least it's not 20 degrees!
> View attachment 175729


I apparently need to do slope research. This chart shows what looks like a 45 degree angle (halfway to 90) in geometry as a 20 degree slope.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

dcleslie7 said:


> This chart shows what looks like a 45 degree angle (halfway to 90) in geometry as a 20 degree slope.


That 20 degree angle is much less than a 45 degree angle (1:1). The % of slope is of 45 degrees (100%).

Compare the 20 degree angle to the 45 degree angle on a full 90 degree quadrant:


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## BjorneLubbock (4 mo ago)

So, have there been any updates since your last appearance here? I’m really curious to see them. I’m currently choosing a landscaping company, so I want everything to be smooth. Any recommendations, guys? I’d be really grateful for them. You know, I’ve looked through so many reasonable decisions that I can’t decide which would be the best for my house. I definitely should ask my friend from https://jscustomlandscaping.com for help. He knows literally everything about landscaping design. Anyway, I’ll still be waiting for your updates on that. Keep us updated.


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