# help just got a free TORO 824 i have some questions



## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

owner said it just stopped running on him...

1.There's a new plug in it but what is the proper plug for this machine?

2. i posted a pic the controls say make sure in "N" and "off" what does it mean by "off"

3.i checked for spark by resting the head ie where the socket goes on the plug against a bolt on the machine but i dont always get spark if i do its very faint. am i not making ground or is there an issue? My other machine generates more spark using the same method


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

for all flathead engines i run an ngk br2lm. rj19lm is an acceptable alternative but i refuse to use champion plugs in my equipment if an ngk is available


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

On and off are for the ignition. On will spark the plug and off will ground out on the block. The N is part of the transmission. I believe those use 2 friction plates so if you go to 1/2/3 it will go forward and if you pull it back to R1/R2 it will go backwards. The N just locks in the the middle of the 2 plates.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Be careful, sometimes "Free" can be expensive :huh:

I think for the interlock and starting the "Off" it's referring to is power to the auger.
It wouldn't make any sense to have the ignition switch in Off, if you're trying to start the engine.
In the instruction manual it says to "Move the auger drive control to disengage" but that may be On and Off on the control panel, not sure. 

See page 10 - - > http://download.snowblowerguide.com/download/524 724 824.pdf


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

yes, where it says "control levers must be in "N" and "Off" to start engine", that is *not* referring to the "off" next to the key..there are two different offs! 

In this photo:

http://s27.postimg.org/hx4jn5daa/IMG_20150621_233518.jpg

the lever on the left needs to be in "N" to start, the key needs to be "On", and somewhere else, not visable in that photo, is a lever for something else that needs to be "off"..probably an auger control lever somewhere else on the machine.

Scot


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

i have the auger in off... im not getting spark i assume its a ignition module or safety device that has failed??? if so how do i check for each??


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

It may or may not have a wire to supply power for a headlight. If it doesn't then there might just be one wire coming out from under the shroud that the pull starter is attached to. That wire gets grounded to stop the engine by grounding the ignition coil. Make sure the wire is disconnected. It might split into two, one going to the safeties on the control panel and one to the throttle control. Make sure they are disconnected and can't touch any metal.

If it does have separate wires coming out than you just need to make sure they are all disconnected and can't ground out.


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

So this will bypass all safety features?? It doesn't have a headlight... so I have to take motor cover off and or coil cover off to see this?


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

The Toro interlock system has a wire that goes from the handle bar levers to the ignition coil. Follow the wire down the bars to where it goes up to the coil and unplug them\it. Also, this machine looks to have been stored outdoors and unprotected. The ignition switch could be shorted out in the off position and stopping spark. Depending on the age, pre 1980's, the ignition points may need cleaning or replacement.


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

Ok thx in will check this. I ll follow the wire and unplug it. Hopefully this solves the problem. I guess I could also check the ignition switch with a multimeter. I ll see if I get spark... if it's the actual ignition module do they still make them if so how expensive are they


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

whats the machines serial number? will be on the rear frame


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

Serial or model??


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

serial, i already know the machine is a model 38080


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

43128 said:


> serial, i already know the machine is a model 38080


How about the engine model numbers which will be stamped into the recoil shroud and probably under the electric start push button assembly? Just in case the tractor sticker is missing or unreadable.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

thats fine to, i just wanted to see if the blower is new enough to have a solid state coil and i find the frame codes easier to read then the engines codes(at least for tecumseh, briggs codes are easy to read


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

I followed the bar closer to the carb and traced the wire down to the connector and disconnected it. Still no park!?



Grunt said:


> The Toro interlock system has a wire that goes from the handle bar levers to the ignition coil. Follow the wire down the bars to where it goes up to the coil and unplug them\it. Also, this machine looks to have been stored outdoors and unprotected. The ignition switch could be shorted out in the off position and stopping spark. Depending on the age, pre 1980's, the ignition points may need cleaning or replacement.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

wantboost said:


> I followed the bar closer to the carb and traced the wire down to the connector and disconnected it. Still no park!?


We will still need the tractor serial or engine numbers to know if you have points or solid state ignition.


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

6002298 is the serial 



Grunt said:


> We will still need the tractor serial or engine numbers to know if you have points or solid state ignition.


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

6002298 is the serial . Is it points or a module??


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

mines a 6001325 from 86 and it had a solid state coil before i swapped the engine. i would suspect a weak coil or a rusty flywheel yours will be a solid state ignition


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

the auger and drive control have to be in the " off " position to start. you should have a lever under one of your handle bars, it has to be pulled / held to the handle bar for your machine to start


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

You have already unplugged the interlock wire from the handle bars, but there is another wire that goes from the throttle control on the engine to the ignition coil. Unplug that wire (making sure it isn't touching a ground)and check for spark. You may have to pull the recoil shroud and make sure you have around .012 thousandths gap (the thickness of a business card)between the flywheel magnets and the coil. That machine has been severely neglected.

Here is a link to the Toro two stage service manual to help you. ( Thanks to Shryp for the link)

http://shryp.ashendust.com/Snowblowers/2stagdrv.pdf


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

43128 said:


> mines a 6001325 from 86 and it had a solid state coil before i swapped the engine. i would suspect a weak coil or a rusty flywheel yours will be a solid state ignition


Ok so how old do u think mine is? So I guess I ll tear it down and see what's going on at flywheel and coil. How do I get access to coil? If I need a coil do u guys have a part number?? Thx


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

43128 said:


> mines a 6001325 from 86 and it had a solid state coil before i swapped the engine. i would suspect a weak coil or a rusty flywheel yours will be a solid state ignition


As 43128 already stated, it is a 1986 model. Go to the Toro web site, enter YOUR model and serial number for a complete engine and tractor parts list. There may be rust between the ignition coil and engine block that will have to be cleaned to get a good ground. Don't buy a coil until you have tried all of the things recommended. Coil part number is 35135 ($15-$20), if all else fails.


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

How do I access the coil is it by taking the coil cover off??


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

ok guys i took it apart the point was so rusted its touching the coil... i guess clean the point with a wire brush or sand paper? till its shiny again and check the gap and reassemble and see if theres spark?

i assume i have a tec hmsk80 motor? any idea where engine code stamp will be located?






is this a series 3 tecumseh carb?


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Typically I can understand a wiring diagram of this level, but not this one. 
The wire to the magneto (coil) has to be open. No path to ground. Pulling the (what looks to be white) wire connector off at the coil will bypass the kill circuit for testing purposes.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

also, this;
rust on flywheel myth


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

wantboost said:


> i assume i have a tec hmsk80 motor? any idea where engine code stamp will be located?


heres one of mine. on top of flywheel cover


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

dbert said:


> also, this;
> rust on flywheel myth


I agree, but after seeing the neglected condition of the blower overall, I was pretty sure the air gap was gone and COULD be a no spark cause. The carb will be another interesting item to see disassembled. :icon_blue_very_sad:

wantboost, according to the Toro web site and YOUR serial number, your Tecumseh engine is a HM80-155291K, but check the numbers on your engine to confirm this. They are probably hidden under the electric start push button.

Yes, it is a series 3 carb.
http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/tecumseh_carb_632334a.asp


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

although the rusty flywheel thing is technically a myth, i have been able to get spark back on numerous occasions by simply sanding the flywheel and regapping the coil


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

Ok guys a cleaned the coil and I am getting spark now. I couldn't gap it with a business card. Should I bother adjusting it still? The business card wouldn't go thru. To me the bolts/coil look like they aren't adjustable...?

Also. Is this starter missing bolts it looks like it's sitting on a angle. 




Grunt said:


> You have already unplugged the interlock wire from the handle bars, but there is another wire that goes from the throttle control on the engine to the ignition coil. Unplug that wire (making sure it isn't touching a ground)and check for spark. You may have to pull the recoil shroud and make sure you have around .012 thousandths gap (the thickness of a business card)between the flywheel magnets and the coil. That machine has been severely neglected.
> 
> Here is a link to the Toro two stage service manual to help you. ( Thanks to Shryp for the link)
> 
> http://shryp.ashendust.com/Snowblowers/2stagdrv.pdf


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

The starter is definitely missing the bottom 2 bolts. If you straighten it out you should be able to see the holes under those tabs. It is possible that your block was never tapped though.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Might not be tapped, or they're likely snapped off and ground away flat. If you click on the photo and enlarge it you can see some Macgyvering. The far right has a piece of bolt tack welded sticking down.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Looks like the bolts are broken off in the block or filled.


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Looks like the bolts are broken off in the block or filled.


Ya they are broken off. How do I access the top bolts I guess take the fuel tank off? 
Also I guess when the starter is engage the arm with the gear protrudes outwards to make contact with the flywheel? Cause current it's not close to the flywheel


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

Is this the proper way to check the gap I can barely get a business card in there. Does the gap look ok? I am getting spark now...


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I'd say it's probably fine. Typically the .010 gap is at all 3 points. Both sides of the u shaped iron and the center coil itself. If it's not making physical contact at any point it should work. To me it looks "close enough".


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

It looks like you have removed the grounding wire from the coil. Is this why it is working now and wasn't before? That circuit must be held open with all the switches in the interlock system to have spark. With the wire pulled from the coil you have bypassed the kill system Key, handle switches and whatever else cannot put a ground on the kill circuit. It's good troubleshooting, but remember if it starts you will have to find an alternate way to turn it off (pull plug wire from plug or choke carb etc). I dont suppose you own a volt/ohm meter to test the kill circuit with?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

He had talked of checking the ignition switch with a multimeter so hopefully he does have one and knows how to use it


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

guys this doesnt make sense. after a re assembled everything with the safety connector off, i dont get spark??? when i had the cover off and i was cleaning it i would get spark


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## wantboost (Aug 5, 2014)

Anyone have any idea what I might have done wrong??


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