# Ariens 8526 Tecumsech LH318SA R.I.P.



## marki (Mar 3, 2015)

It happen 3 minutes after start, 
I check the oil, and regular check up before start, no problem. 
Day before Ariens was working for 2 hours, 
without any problem. 
What should i do, look for replacement engine or look for use snowblower.

Marki


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Wow, that is a bad one. It got the block, the sump and the cylinder walls. Not sure I have seen that much damage before. Harbor Freight has the 212cc Predators for $99. Those are around 6.5 - 7 HP and work well for 24" blowers, the next size up they have is the 301cc engine rated at 8 HP and that is more like $240.

You could also look around and try to source a different engine from somewhere else. You could check craigslist and look for a deal on a broken blower. Sometimes you can find a blower with a blown front auger gearcase for cheap.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Agree completely. Easily fixed for under $200 with either option there..... probably $50 for a broken one with a good block/engine


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Ouch, sorry, that's nasty. 

One consideration would be timing. You could probably buy another machine off Craigslist in a day or two if you wanted. 

Doing a new HF engine swap may take more time and homework. If there's a big storm coming in a few days, that could be a problem. If you buy a new HF engine, or similar, you might need to make something to get a shroud around the belts, for instance. You might need different length belts, depending on the location of the crankshaft. 

Now, looking at the model number (implies perhaps an L-head 318cc), if this is basically the common Tecumseh L-head 318cc 8hp engine (formerly called HMSK80), those are plentiful. You could buy a used cheap-brand blower with one of those engines, as a source. You'd want to make sure to buy a donor machine with the single-output version of the engine, not the style that had two output shafts. This would likely be an easier swap than a HF engine, as the donor engine is already set up for snow operation, etc. 

If it's a recent machine, in nice shape, it's probably cheaper to replace the engine, vs buying another good machine. If you wanted to go that route, and wanted to use a HF engine, perhaps you could buy something used & cheap, to help get you through the winter, while you do the swap? Then sell the "new" machine once you get yours going again.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

i would just get a predator. never seen one lose a chunk of its cylinder wall. just another example of tecumsehs awesome quality and design


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

A couple of tubes of JB Weld, and you'll be good to go. LOL


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

marki, If you still have the Platinum 28 from your previous post on 3-14-2015, you've got time to swap this 8526 to a new motor.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ussion/50849-single-stage-recommendation.html

I'd seriously look at this motor
Small Engine Surplus.com LH358XA-159493 Tecumseh 10 HP
You would have the carb heat box, fuel tank/mount and line, mitten handle for recoil you could swap directly from the 8.5 Tec.. Even if the bolt pattern was different for the 10hp, the Ariens tractor body will have holes already drilled. Grind the old studs off, some bolts and nuts. Trim the taper off the crank, buy a 1" drive sheave, 7/8" auger sheave, set the gov down to 3600rpm.


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## guilateen02 (Nov 23, 2014)

Did your machine require an alternator? For lights or heated grips. If so the Predator 6.5 might not be the best choice.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

43128 said:


> i would just get a predator. never seen one lose a chunk of its cylinder wall. just another example of tecumsehs awesome quality and design


 NR racing torture tested a Predator 212cc and it was able to hit 5500rpms in stock form were it would go into valve float since the stock valve springs could not close the valves fast enough. The flywheel however is unsafe and will not handle much more than 4000 rpms and a billet forged aluminum flywheel rated to 8500rpms can be had for $100. A Tecumseh Snow king engine would totally grenade at 4000 rpm let alone 5500 that the Predator 212cc engine withstood.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

guilateen02 said:


> Did your machine require an alternator? For lights or heated grips. If so the Predator 6.5 might not be the best choice.


Charging coils are available from a couple sources, just need to search.

Charging Coil for the Predator 212cc 6.5 Hp Engine : Monster Scooter Parts


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## guilateen02 (Nov 23, 2014)

Wouldn't he still need a new flywheel with more magnets? I was under the impression just adding the coil won't be enough.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

43128 said:


> i would just get a predator. never seen one lose a chunk of its cylinder wall. just another example of tecumsehs awesome quality and design


I've got a feeling we're going to see plenty of dead Predators in 10-40 years. That Tecumseh was made in 2004.
I own a Honda GX-200 and there are differences between it and a Predator.

Then again, what a surprise, a $400 Honda isn't exactly the same as a $99 Predator knockoff. :icon_whistling:


Once you get your predator you need to either modify the jets on the carb or build a heaterbox or both. That's after you do everything you need to for it to bolt up to the machine and work correctly.

I'd probably hunt down a Tecumseh.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

ChrisJ said:


> I've got a feeling we're going to see plenty of dead Predators in 10-40 years. That Tecumseh was made in 2004.
> I own a Honda GX-200 and there are differences between it and a Predator.
> 
> Then again, what a surprise, a $400 Honda isn't exactly the same as a $99 Predator knockoff. :icon_whistling:
> ...


It seems like the people who are constantly putting down the Harbor Freight Predator 212cc engines are the ones who never owned one. Are you aware that Loncin makes the engines for Toro now and they also make the 212cc Predator engine. Actually the Predator 212cc engine has cast iron liner and dual ball bearing supported crankshaft just like the Honda engines. In fact it is way closer to the Honda engine in design than are the cool bore Tecumseh engines that were known to blow connecting rods if they were run low on oil or ran at Rpms higher than the intended 3600 rpm. One iced up governor linkage and boom there goes your engine. Plus the modern OHV valve design is much more fuel efficient too. It's not too hard to winterize a Predator 212cc. I just used a sheet of aluminum and fashioned a shroud to prevent snow and water from icing up the governor linkages which is located under the gas tank. Others have done that plus added carburetor heater boxes. 

The Harbor Freight Predator 212cc engine is the darling of the carting world and has been run much harder on the race track than any Tecumseh Snow King engine ever has been run. You are entitled to your opinions but not your facts. Plus you can get plenty of go fast parts for the Predator 212cc engine and they have actually beaten quite a few genuine Honda 196cc engines while racing so they are not junk like you are trying to poorly imply. :icon_whistling:


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

i have a genuine gx200 and a couple honda clones. the predators are not built as well as the gx200 but honesly i see no reason for them not lasting 40 years, except for maybe some oem honda fuel lines and an oem gasket set. all check back with you guys when im 69


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## Zedhead (Jan 1, 2016)

jtclays said:


> marki, If you still have the Platinum 28 from your previous post on 3-14-2015, you've got time to swap this 8526 to a new motor.
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ussion/50849-single-stage-recommendation.html
> 
> ...


Tapered shaft engines are a PITA to adapt to snow blowers.


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## Zedhead (Jan 1, 2016)

GustoGuy said:


> It seems like the people who are constantly putting down the Harbor Freight Predator 212cc engines are the ones who never owned one. Are you aware that Loncin makes the engines for Toro now and they also make the 212cc Predator engine. Actually the Predator 212cc engine has cast iron liner and dual ball bearing supported crankshaft just like the Honda engines. In fact it is way closer to the Honda engine in design than are the cool bore Tecumseh engines that were known to blow connecting rods if they were run low on oil or ran at Rpms higher than the intended 3600 rpm. One iced up governor linkage and boom there goes your engine. Plus the modern OHV valve design is much more fuel efficient too. It's not too hard to winterize a Predator 212cc. I just used a sheet of aluminum and fashioned a shroud to prevent snow and water from icing up the governor linkages which is located under the gas tank. Others have done that plus added carburetor heater boxes.
> 
> The Harbor Freight Predator 212cc engine is the darling of the carting world and has been run much harder on the race track than any Tecumseh Snow King engine ever has been run. You are entitled to your opinions but not your facts. Plus you can get plenty of go fast parts for the Predator 212cc engine and they have actually beaten quite a few genuine Honda 196cc engines while racing so they are not junk like you are trying to poorly imply. :icon_whistling:


I'd tend to agree with that take. I have a Greyhound, HF's previous gen Chinese clone motor on my plate compactor for about 3 years now. Plate tampers are extremely hard on engines. I think the oiling process is screwed up by the vibration, and harmonics of the tamper.

B&S Intek lasted a whopping 1-1/2 hours on my tamper.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

GustoGuy said:


> It seems like the people who are constantly putting down the Harbor Freight Predator 212cc engines are the ones who never owned one. Are you aware that Loncin makes the engines for Toro now and they also make the 212cc Predator engine. Actually the Predator 212cc engine has cast iron liner and dual ball bearing supported crankshaft just like the Honda engines. In fact it is way closer to the Honda engine in design than are the cool bore Tecumseh engines that were known to blow connecting rods if they were run low on oil or ran at Rpms higher than the intended 3600 rpm. One iced up governor linkage and boom there goes your engine. Plus the modern OHV valve design is much more fuel efficient too. It's not too hard to winterize a Predator 212cc. I just used a sheet of aluminum and fashioned a shroud to prevent snow and water from icing up the governor linkages which is located under the gas tank. Others have done that plus added carburetor heater boxes.
> 
> The Harbor Freight Predator 212cc engine is the darling of the carting world and has been run much harder on the race track than any Tecumseh Snow King engine ever has been run. You are entitled to your opinions but not your facts. Plus you can get plenty of go fast parts for the Predator 212cc engine and they have actually beaten quite a few genuine Honda 196cc engines while racing so they are not junk like you are trying to poorly imply. :icon_whistling:



I didn't, or rather didn't mean to imply that the Predator engines are junk. Sometimes these things are hard to convey via text.

What I meant to imply was that the Tecumsehs aren't as awful as people are claiming and the Predators aren't as great as claimed, they need modifications to work for this application. The Tecumseh engines were never great from day one, that's true. I just don't trust the claims of Predators being so durable, not until they're out there longer. I don't own one, I do own a Honda GX-200 and yes, it's an awesome engine. My dad has a Generac with a Honda clone and so far he loves the engine.

I do stand by my comment about plenty of dead Predators 10 years from now. Especially with all of them being abused as has been mentioned.

My HMSK-80 is a cast iron bore not a cool bore, unsure whether it has ball bearings or not.


Bottom line, would I put a Predator on my snowblower? Possibly, but it would need to be 8HP or greater for my uses even on a 24" machine and I'd highly consider hunting down a Tecumseh 8 or 10HP first due to the amount of work required to make a Predator or Honda work properly, especially near 0F. 8+HP Predators don't look anywhere near as tempting as the 6.5 price wise especially when you look at the work required to adapt it.


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## marki (Mar 3, 2015)

I already replaced one Predator engine to my 50 years old Ariens and I love it.Very strong and reliable engine, it doesn't have electric start and start from first pull. 
It will be my first choice to do it, but Tecumseh LH318SA has 2 crankshaft, 
I don't know if any other company produce 2 crankshaft engine.

For me the biggest issue is to transport snowblower from one location to another, I am to old for it. For that reason I need 3 snowblower. 
Thanks for all your suggestion.

Marki


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

ChrisJ said:


> I didn't, or rather didn't mean to imply that the Predator engines are junk. Sometimes these things are hard to convey via text.
> 
> What I meant to imply was that the Tecumsehs aren't as awful as people are claiming and the Predators aren't as great as claimed, they need modifications to work for this application. The Tecumseh engines were never great from day one, that's true. I just don't trust the claims of Predators being so durable, not until they're out there longer. I don't own one, I do own a Honda GX-200 and yes, it's an awesome engine. My dad has a Generac with a Honda clone and so far he loves the engine.
> 
> ...


The Predator 212cc engine is a great performing replacement engine. I own 3 of them and on the mini bike I enlarged the opening under the foam filter element in the air box and jetted it richer and it turned into a wheelie machine. I added 12 lbs of plate steel that I bought from Mid way iron to weigh down the front of the bike. One plate was placed on the frame down low on front of the engine and the other 2 plates were put on the number bracket plate just over the front wheel. NR RACING Dyno a stock Predator 212cc engine with just a low restriction K&N style air filter and richer jetting and found that it was making just over 9hp without touching the internals of the engine. Plus if you want to you can build this engine up with billet parts such as flywheel and connecting rod and this engine has been shown to make up to 15 hp with the stage 4 NR racing kit put into it.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

GustoGuy said:


> The Predator 212cc engine is a great performing replacement engine. I own 3 of them and on the mini bike I enlarged the opening under the foam filter element in the air box and jetted it richer and it turned into a wheelie machine. I added 12 lbs of plate steel that I bought from Mid way iron to weigh down the front of the bike. One plate was placed on the frame down low on front of the engine and the other 2 plates were put on the number bracket plate just over the front wheel. NR RACING Dyno a stock Predator 212cc engine with just a low restriction K&N style air filter and richer jetting and found that it was making just over 9hp without touching the internals of the engine. Plus if you want to you can build this engine up with billet parts such as flywheel and connecting rod and this engine has been shown to make up to 15 hp with the stage 4 NR racing kit put into it.



I recently sold a highly modified Yahama Raptor 660.
The last time I rode a bike with a 8HP engine I was 7 years old and it was a Suzuki DS-80.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Zedhead said:


> Tapered shaft engines are a PITA to adapt to snow blowers.


If you look at the dimensions of the crank supplied in the link, there's plenty of room to make it non tapered. I've seen it done with a sawsall and even with a hack saw with the engine bolted to a workmate and running.
Cutting a keyway is fairly straight forward. All depends what you need or want to spend.
http://www.smallenginesurplus.com/tecumseh-lh358xa159493-p-3883.html


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

marki, that sucks it's a dual shaft. Have to admit the ones I looked for Ariens 8526LE showed a single shaft Tec. I think on that one you can cut and weld the shift arm to opposite.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

ChrisJ said:


> I recently sold a highly modified Yahama Raptor 660.
> The last time I rode a bike with a 8HP engine I was 7 years old and it was a Suzuki DS-80.


As to the mini bike it’s a fun little toy. I originally bought a Baja Doodle Bug with the 2.8hp engine for my son when he was 8 years old. He is 19 now and we both ride snowmobiles with over 100 horsepower now so what are you trying to imply? Well being that it was a gutless pile of poo with the 2.8hp original engine so I decided to add a little more horsepower so aldults could enjoy it and I re-power it with a Predator 212cc engine and I seen how well it worked on the mini bike so the next engine to go was the gutless hard to start Tecumseh 5hp on the MTD 5/22. By the way have you seen my Youtube video of the 5/22 in action? If not here it is throwing snow 40+ feet.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

The Predator engines have a tapered shaft?


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

GustoGuy said:


> As to the mini bike it’s a fun little toy. I originally bought a Baja Doodle Bug with the 2.8hp engine for my son when he was 8 years old. He is 19 now and we both ride snowmobiles with over 100 horsepower now so what are you trying to imply? Well being that it was a gutless pile of poo with the 2.8hp original engine so I decided to add a little more horsepower to it and I re-power it with a Predator 212cc engine and I seen how well it worked on the mini bike so the next engine to go was the gutless Tecumseh 5hp on the MTD 5/22. By the way have you seen my Youtube video of the 5/22 in action? If not here it is throwing snow 40+ feet.
> 
> Mtd Yardmachine 5/22 repower with Harbor Freight Predator 212cc OHV engine and impeller kit


Sounds like it's running strong.

My issue is 90% of what I deal with is packed snow from the plows at the end of the driveway and I also take care of a few neighbors. That dense packed snow combined with salt from the road kills my 8HP 24. It ran under full load for 6 hours last weekend. Runs nice and easy in 20+" of powdery snow on the walks, but that packed junk needs a little more muscle. I've also considered an impeller kit for when I end up with slush.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

ChrisJ said:


> The Predator engines have a tapered shaft?


No. The Predator 212cc has a straight shaft 3/4 inch diameter


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

ChrisJ said:


> Sounds like it's running strong.
> 
> My issue is 90% of what I deal with is packed snow from the plows at the end of the driveway and I also take care of a few neighbors. That dense packed snow combined with salt from the road kills my 8HP 24. It ran under full load for 6 hours last weekend. Runs nice and easy in 20+" of powdery snow on the walks, but that packed junk needs a little more muscle. I've also considered an impeller kit for when I end up with slush.


  Then get a 420cc Predator with electric start and it will easily throw snow 50+ feet. By the way the Predator 212cc goes through the EOD much better than the original Tecumseh 5hp ever did. I seen a video of a guy who repowered his 28 inch Toro blower with an older larger HF Greyhound and it was throwing snow well over 50 feet.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Gusto, do you have any videos of the Predator-powered toys? They sound fun. 

ChrisJ, an impeller kit is worth looking into. I did one for my 1024Pro, it throws better now, especially with wet snow. It was a bit of a pain, admittedly. And I was able to drill the impeller when I had the auger/impeller assembly already removed to do something else, which made the drilling easier.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

RedOctobyr said:


> Gusto, do you have any videos of the Predator-powered toys? They sound fun.
> 
> ChrisJ, an impeller kit is worth looking into. I did one for my 1024Pro, it throws better now, especially with wet snow. It was a bit of a pain, admittedly, and I was able to drill the impeller when I had the auger/impeller assembly already removed to do something else, which helped.


No unfortunately I do not have any videos of the mini bike. I will make one this summer of the mini bike in action. [


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## AriensPro1128 (Nov 9, 2014)

GustoGuy, how old are the Tecumsehs that break the rod, 30, 40 or more years old? There are millions of them out there on everything from snow blowers and lawnmowers to tractors. Give it a break.

Richard


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Charging coils are available from a couple sources, just need to search.
> 
> Charging Coil for the Predator 212cc 6.5 Hp Engine : Monster Scooter Parts



So what is in the flywheel to make it work? Do they already have magnets in them...? I wouldn't think so anyway...... Also wondering if that is enough clearance? What other parts fit/work?


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

Is the 420CC the smallest Predator to have an Electric Starter (AC or DC) and an Alternator ?


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## Zedhead (Jan 1, 2016)

I'll stand by the older Tecumseh engines. The newer ones, not so much. The ones built up until 1997-8 were pretty tough engines.


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## SumDumJerk (Oct 21, 2014)

*Just a thought*

:icon_whistling: On eBay a NIB Tecumseh 10hp short block $149 and $29 shipping.


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## chrisexv6 (Feb 4, 2014)

bad69cat said:


> So what is in the flywheel to make it work? Do they already have magnets in them...? I wouldn't think so anyway...... Also wondering if that is enough clearance? What other parts fit/work?


You'll need a flywheel with magnets. I dont think the Predator comes like that out of the box.

If you have the newer (Hemi) version of the Predator, the crank taper is different than the older non-Hemi, so you might need a Kohler flywheel (my understanding is the Kohler CH270 is the same as the Predator hemi, or at least the parts are compatible)


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

AriensPro1128 said:


> GustoGuy, how old are the Tecumsehs that break the rod, 30, 40 or more years old? There are millions of them out there on everything from snow blowers and lawnmowers to tractors. Give it a break.
> 
> Richard


half of the tecumsehs i get in with blown rod are less then 15 years old. they are just really poorly built/designed engine that WILL NOT take any sort of abuse


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Hmm, that's interesting. I had a pair of ~20 year old HMSK80's, which never gave me any trouble. Now I have a 10hp OHV (OHSK100) that's about 15 years old. It's also been good so far, but I'll keep an eye on things like the governed speed, and oil changes, to hopefully reduce the risk of problems.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

43128 said:


> half of the tecumsehs i get in with blown rod are less then 15 years old. they are just really poorly built/designed engine that WILL NOT take any sort of abuse


  
 
The sad thing is that complacency did in Tecumseh. Tecumseh was very aware of it's engines especially the 8hp to 10 hp Horizontal shaft engines were having problems with broken connecting rods for years. *Rather than make the necessary changes to their design to fix the problem they simply blamed the owners for running it with low oil or running it over the recommended rpm range. *Tecumseh’s newer OHV engines did not fare much better and many of them had a poorly designed compression release mechanism that caused them to kick back when being pull started. The fix was to retard the timing a bit so the delay in engine spark lighting the gas mixture would not cause a kick back. Once Honda who used it’s expertise in designing small motorcycle engines came out with it's GX240cc OHV engine back in 1986 and it was light years ahead of the Tecumseh engines in design. Back in 1991 I worked at a lawn service and landscaping place and I helped out a lot with equipment maintenance and while we did not have any Tecumseh engines we did have some Briggs and Stratton commercial engines. The Briggs engines were far nosier and burned more oil than the 2 Kawasaki engines that replaced 2 earlier Briggs engines, which failed. We had Honda engines on the seed spreader and lawn aerator and they were great runners, which required very little maintenance. Just like the Japanese companies did to the American automobile companies which responded by improving their products and thus survived. Honda really showed the world how good a small general-purpose engine can be. Either you improve your product in order to compete or you will be swept into the dustbin of history of failed businesses.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

GustoGuy said:


> The sad thing is that complacency did in Tecumseh. Tecumseh was very aware of it's engines especially the 8hp to 10 hp Horizontal shaft engines were having problems with broken connecting rods for years. *Rather than make the necessary changes to their design to fix the problem they simply blamed the owners for running it with low oil or running it over the recommended rpm range. *Tecumseh’s newer OHV engines did not fare much better and many of them had a poorly designed compression release mechanism that caused them to kick back when being pull started. The fix was to retard the timing a bit so the delay in engine spark lighting the gas mixture would not cause a kick back. Once Honda who used it’s expertise in designing small motorcycle engines came out with it's GX240cc OHV engine back in 1986 and it was light years ahead of the Tecumseh engines in design. Back in 1991 I worked at a lawn service and landscaping place and I helped out a lot with equipment maintenance and while we did not have any Tecumseh engines we did have some Briggs and Stratton commercial engines. The Briggs engines were far nosier and burned more oil than the 2 Kawasaki engines that replaced 2 earlier Briggs engines, which failed. We had Honda engines on the seed spreader and lawn aerator and they were great runners, which required very little maintenance. Just like the Japanese companies did to the American automobile companies which responded by improving their products and thus survived. Honda really showed the world how good a small general-purpose engine can be. Either you improve your product in order to compete or you will be swept into the dustbin of history of failed businesses.



I ended up with a used pressure washer that has a Honda GX-200 on it. From then on I fell in love with Honda engines and bought a new Honda lawn mower. I've only come across one Briggs and Stratton engine I like, and I like it a lot.

Here's a video of it running during a long power outage last year. The cell phone audio was a bit weird, the engine runs absolutely perfect and has never been worked on.






It's a cast iron bore, I'm not sure if it's from their IC line or not, but it's definitely a very old design even thought it was made in 1990.


As far as I know Tecumseh engines have always been fairly cheesy. Not necessarily in build quality, but they never seemed to run perfect. I like my HMSK-80 fine, it does the job now that I've got it working right.

As far as Briggs and Stratton I don't know what their deal was. It seemed like they had really good engines in the 1960s and then in the 1970s they started with gimmicky half-baked autochokes and the 1980s plastic carburetors. I had a lawn mower with a BS engine on it from around 2006 and it was an absolute piece of garbage. I doubt all BS engines are that bad as it was one of their bottom of the line ones, but still.

My favorite small engines are the 1960s BS engines, like that one on my generator (1990s, but clearly a 1960s design). 1960s Kohler K series, and Honda GX series. The Honda GC series are ok, but not as good as the GX which I guess isn't a secret.


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