# today's gasoline really is crap !



## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

well I just got out my 3 of my running usable machines here at my home location, and every single one has issues due to bad old gas in it from last year.
no more trying to make it last with stabil from now on. the gas it getting DRAINED at the end of the season. I may actually fill all the gas tanks with a very thin weight mineral turbine oil for storage.
the alcohol in the gas absorbs moisture and rusts/corrodes the heck out of the carbs and gas tanks. after several years, I'm tired of having to clean it out every year.
the old Ariens 4M points also bit dust, so I converted that one over to electronic yesterday, like the rest- another Nova II kit. last kit I had in stock.
it started on the first pull with the kit - as usual. I've yet to see one of those Nova II's not perform 100%


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## ztnoo (Nov 26, 2015)

*An alternative?*

Ethanol free gas: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Amen my brutha - preaching to the choir here. I tell all of my customers to avoid the blends in anything that has a carb or your asking for trouble.


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## caddydaddy (Dec 10, 2014)

I'll probably fill the tank up with TruFuel when the season is over this year.


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## ztnoo (Nov 26, 2015)

*Looks like the corn based fuel stays primarily in the Lower 48*

Interesting note on the home page:


Alaska: all gasoline is ethanol-free.
 All Canada: Shell V-Power, Esso premium, MacEwen premium
 Western Canada: CO-OP premium
 New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, PEI: all premium grade gasoline
 British Columbia: Chevron 94
 Ontario: Costco 91; Canadian Tire 91; Ultramar 91


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

It was years ago now, actually the day I took the Christmas picture I posted here and on my site that I got religion about draining machines. Up until then I put them away as-is and fuel either evaporated or was fine in the fall. That year nothing started. It was the first E-10 storage interval for us. I actually had to push those machine up the hill to get that picture! This quickie improvised fuel system enema got all of the Flo-Jets happy after the photo shoot. 

I now run Ethanol Sta-Bill in season and drain and run everything dry for storage. I have zero fuel issues since.

Pete


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

ztnoo said:


> Interesting note on the home page:
> 
> 
> Alaska: all gasoline is ethanol-free.
> ...



the octane rating doesn't mean it's alcohol free
there is 93 octane here too- but it's mandated that ALL FUELS sold in the lower 48 commercially at gas stations, must have 10% minimum alcohol


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## uberT (Dec 29, 2013)

Yeah, I'm not sure why the Canadians keep quoting that "fact". It's something unique to their location and certainly not the case in the USA. We're stuck with tainted fuel, regardless of octane, and need to deal with it.


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## ztnoo (Nov 26, 2015)

Well, the whole corn based fuel argument started with attempting to gain more energy independence from foreign oil sources.
It was more politically motivated than anything else. It has provided our corn producers with a ready market for their production, however. That's not all bad.

On the surface, it seems reasonable distilling corn for fuel when we are the world's most prolific producer of the crop, but when you understand we are using up something like 35-40% of our corn crop (a huge food/feed source) for fuel, and utilizing more energy to produce it than it delivers, its questionable economics IMO. 
Since we've largely been responsible for the glut of oil on the world market from the Dakota fracking fields, it all seems rather ill conceived policy to me at this point in time.

Not to mention all the fuel delivery problems we all see every year in older small engine driven equipment. I think all of us basically wish the corn based fuel technology had never been developed.
I doubt almost no Canadian corn (which isn't much) ever is utilized for ethanol production. They have no choice to rely on good old petroleum for the gasoline production.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

uberT said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure why the Canadians keep quoting that "fact". It's something unique to their location and certainly not the case in the USA. We're stuck with tainted fuel, regardless of octane, and need to deal with it.


darn canadians.


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## Clipperskipper (Dec 24, 2015)

Just returned from the local airport with cans filled with 100LL. No ethanol here, no water either, and avgas doesn't break down like regular unleaded. $4.50 gal today.


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## Clipperskipper (Dec 24, 2015)

Another alternative for ethanol-free fuel is marine fuel, as ethanol does a job on outboard engines. Some of these yards operate seasonally, so call ahead prior:
Fuel Pricing - Upper Gulf | Waterway Guide


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Just drain and dump it when the season is over. 
Screw all that messin around with it.

an empty carb/fuel tank is better than any fuel treatment.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

nwcove said:


> darn canadians.



You mean: Darn Canadians, eh !


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

scrappy said:


> Just drain and dump it when the season is over.
> Screw all that messin around with it.
> 
> an empty carb/fuel tank is better than any fuel treatment.



The only exception might be metal gas tanks. In the case of metal I can see an advantage to keeping it totally full with treated fuel to control the chance of rusting from condensation.

One member suggested that using a plastic bag over the opening and screwing down the cap keeps moisture out too.

Whatever works for you. :wavetowel2:


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

The problem is that the distributors are reducing their costs and have chosen to limit the un-blended fuel distribution so that they only have to add the ethanol to hit the octane rating they want. Here in Iowa we get subsidized for fuels that have it (Cuz they say it help farmers.... :>/ lol) which makes the blended fuel cheaper (1.73 for 94 this morning) and the un-blended (1.93 for 89 this morning). They now only bring in 89 octane since it's the lowest they can go for most modern engines to function (My 69 cougar hates it!!) and just adjust it (reducing their costs by not bringing in higher un-blendeds). The only place to get higher octane rated fuels that are un-blended are the airports and marine places that have their own distributors. Typically at more than double the cost since the volumes are lower. Keep in mind that octane rating is only a measure of the engines ability to withstand the pre-detonation or knocking/pinging that results at a given level of heptane or additives have on a "standard" engine. Higher compression engines require higher levels. Small engines are usually fine on lower 89-94 rated. Ethanol and most alcohols will attract moisture from humidity and condensation, and will also hurt most rubber components in small engines (carbed). That's where our troubles begin - they are also less stable and have a shelf life of about 4-6 months. If you crack open a carb and it smells like nasty old varnish you know you have buildup in thee and probably rust to boot...... total PITA!


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

scrappy said:


> Just drain and dump it when the season is over.
> Screw all that messin around with it.
> 
> an empty carb/fuel tank is better than any fuel treatment.


No need to dump the stuff it's still fine in the spring. I just drain it to the can and top off the tractor, top off the 5 gallon can and if my cup ruunneth over pour some into a vehicle. 

Where do you "dump it"?


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

That's why I wish that OPE manufactures would include a fuel dump valve. That way, when you are done, you simply drain it off into a fuel can and pour it back into the wife's car. My trucks is diesel, so that would be no bueno, unless it was -10F.


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## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

Check the local Indian Reservations if you have any around your area. They simply tell the EPA to stuff it and nobody bothers them. Around here they still get ethanol in the 87 but not high test. Otherwise it's the airport 100LL is still stupid expensive as is marina gas. 
I just stuck a fuel shut off on mine today . I'm still going to use ethanol free as always but at least if I have to run the thing on crap gas due to running out I can simply chop the valve and let it run dry when I'm done. Using different gas is a real pain isn't it.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I wish they made a filter for ethanol. That way I could dump it back in the wife's Yukon. It burns e85.


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## yarcraftman (Jan 30, 2014)

I had same issues with ethanol issues in my boat and snow blower

I put a fuel/water separator in the fuel line to take moisture out of fuel in outboard boat motor and had to replace all fuel lines. I also use marine stabil each fill up all year. I had to replace carb and all fuel lines a few years ago. This is a temporary fix and will catch up with me again. 

For the snowblower and small equipment I started buying tru fuel. Is is expensive sure but it's worth not having the hassle to worry about ethanol. Everything starts quickly and the gas is pure and good for two years. No more 12" snow falls where the blower does not start. 

Obviously for a 30 gallon tank on a boat tru fuel is cost prohibitive. But for a few gallons per year in snowblower or leaf blower game on. I still use regular gas with stabil in lawn mower but only buy enough for two weeks. Plus the lawnmower we know gets used each week and is not sitting around.


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## 1894 (Dec 16, 2014)

greatwhitebuffalo said:


> the octane rating doesn't mean it's alcohol free
> there is 93 octane here too- but it's mandated that ALL FUELS sold in the lower 48 commercially at gas stations, must have 10% minimum alcohol


 So the stations that say they have ethanol-free gas ( IE 93 0ct, premium , ethanol free ) are lying to the customers ???? 
Why do they not get fined / sued for false advertising ?? 

One station kinda close station to me :

pure-gas.org : display a station


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

I believe they have to offer 10% - not all fuels have to have it. There are a few states where thats all they have however. It's up to the distibutor and the state rules. The ultimate goal is to have all fuels blended and eventually hit e85 on all cars. Your grandkids are going to love it! LOL I laugh only to keep from crying......


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## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

Although I just by Indian gas for the small stuff I have noticed that there seems to be stations popping up all over offering real gas on one pump . This happened in the last year or so. I guess even in the bastion of liberalism here in good old Neuyorkistan Emperor Cuomo II has heard enough bitching that the greenies gave a little. It makes sense. The stuff is expensive enough that people surely buy very little of it for their cars and the fact is that cars run just fine on the stuff just fine . So no big deal really in the end.
I always felt that it's things like this that make the bunnyhugger agenda so hated. Here in the good old USA they always rammed these sort of things down our throats unlike other places. Stupid moronic things like chain saw chokes that dump the second you touch the throttle epitomize the stupidity of the EPA. k:How many of you forgot to open the choke and then actually cut something? Theres nothing like a mandated solution to a problem that never existed is there. Then come those famous gas cans we all modify so they will actually work.:facepalm_zpsdj194qh All at double the complexity and cost of things that worked perfectly for decades.


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## ztnoo (Nov 26, 2015)

Lots of interesting and enlightening info on ethanol fuels here:

*Ethanol Labeling Laws - State by State Guide.*


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

1894 said:


> So the stations that say they have ethanol-free gas ( IE 93 0ct, premium , ethanol free ) are lying to the customers ????
> Why do they not get fined / sued for false advertising ??


I'd like to know this also. One station nearby - Holiday - started carrying ethanol-free gas. I called that station and the manager said it is truly ethanol-free. I might contact their corporate office and see if I can get an honest answer if that is true.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

greatwhitebuffalo said:


> the octane rating doesn't mean it's alcohol free
> there is 93 octane here too- but it's mandated that ALL FUELS sold in the lower 48 commercially at gas stations, must have 10% minimum alcohol


Don't tell these guys...5min from my house :laugh:


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

I just spoke with a petroleum department head at Holiday Stationstores corporate office in Bloomington, MN and he said at least for Minnesota and Michigan, there is absolutely no ethanol in their premium 91 octane _ethanol-free_ marked pumps. He only mentioned MN and MI, because he's in MN and I'm in MI...he didn't say they were the _only _states with ethanol-free fuel.

There is, however a very small amount of ethanol that may be in the hose if the last user was pumping their other fuels, as they share a single hose, but it is so small an amount that it's deemed ethanol free.

After hearing that, from now on, I'll start the pump in my vehicle tank, pump about a quarter gallon, then fill up my small equip tanker. Sometimes I'm only getting a gallon (chainsaw; Winter can), most other times it's 5 gallons.

And FWIW, I just paid $2.69/gal at the Holiday station on M22 in Traverse City, MI.


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## 1894 (Dec 16, 2014)

jrom said:


> I just spoke with a petroleum department head at Holiday Stationstores corporate office in Bloomington, MN and he said at least for Minnesota and Michigan, there is absolutely no ethanol in their premium 91 octane _ethanol-free_ marked pumps. He only mentioned MN and MI, because he's in MN and I'm in MI...he didn't say they were the _only _states with ethanol-free fuel.
> 
> *There is, however a very small amount of ethanol that may be in the hose if the last user was pumping their other fuels, as they share a single hose, but it is so small an amount that it's deemed ethanol free.
> 
> ...


_ I always start the pump in my truck tank for that reason. Start the pump , then open the tailgate and get the gas can(s) out and add the seafoam and then fill the can(s).

_​


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

db9938 said:


> I wish they made a filter for ethanol. That way I could dump it back in the wife's Yukon. It burns e85.


There is, it's called water! I just don't know about dumping the ethanol back in the Yukon with the water in it...


Actually, I made a separate thread on separating the ethanol from gas, as it is not a well known "trick" :


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

Many of the big corn, and wheat "farmers" are gentlemen farmers who bought the farms as investments, some are senators and congressmen. We are pretty much screwed.
Sid


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Sid said:


> Many of the big corn, and wheat "farmers" are gentlemen farmers who bought the farms as investments, some are senators and congressmen. We are pretty much screwed.
> Sid


and that's only a conflict of interest if you're NOT a politician :banghead:


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