# In Need Of Stupid Tiny O-Ring



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

I'm in need of getting the very small rubber o-ring on the idle jet for my blower. I can order the carb kit which it is part of. But as usual I want to find one locally so I can get my machine back together. So far I've struck out at 1 AutoZone, 1 Lowes, 1 power products dealer & 2 True Value hardware stores. Next I'll be trying a plumbing supply store. Any other suggestions?


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Check around for a nearby Parker hydraulics store, they usually carry most sizes of o-rings. If you don't have a Parker store check with whoever supplies and repairs hydraulic hoses and fittings.


----------



## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

HArbor Freight has o ring collections in both sae and metric sizes. Not sure if they contain anything that small. I ordered my last supply of o rings on the Bay in bulk for about 50 cents apiece with fee shipping. MH


----------



## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

Do you have a neighborhood (scuba) dive shop? They usually have a lot of them for regulator repair and some do get tiny. Do you know the trade size number?

Pete


----------



## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

NAPA and other auto parts stores usually have a case that has O rings anywhere from 2" down to something that is hard to see. Go to the older hardware stores in your area. The older the better. They are the places to look for stuff like that. We have two old stores in our area and I can go there for knob and tube wiring parts s well as leather cups for wells and etc. They have those display cases full of O rings and other hard to find parts. Also, try your local small engine repair shop.


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

harbor freight has them in bulk for 8 bucks. i saw a 00 price set at pepboys the other night for 12 bucks


----------



## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

I'm going to be the pragmatist here. You've been to 4 stores so far and probably spent what 3-5 gallons of gas running around. Discounting your time as of no value, you've already likely spent more in gas and wear & tear on the vehicle than the cost of a carb kit. You could have used the o-ring and thrown the rest away and still be money ahead.

Nice to know of options but your time also has value as does the cost of driving. I know it sounds dumb but so does running all over the place unless you were going there anyway.

I admit I've done it too, but the older you get the less you want to run looking for something than just biting the bullet and doing it.

My 2 cents

PS - I think I've seen them before at Fleet Farm if you still want to try tracking down just the O-ring.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

*Thanks*

Those are all great suggestions. Thanks guys.

HCBPH - I'm with you on all that.

Also, my machine's carb does not have the Carburetor Insulator (#132 in diagram on pg 33). Should I be concerned?
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/user-manuals/247888301-Craftsman-Parts-Snow-removal-equipment-Parts-manual


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

If I end up buying a carb, can someone confirm for me that this would be the correct one?


----------



## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Carbs*



Chuck2 said:


> If I end up buying a carb, can some confirm for me that this would be the correct one?
> 
> A131 MTD Troy Bilt Cub Cadet Snow Blower Carburetor 951 11303A 951 14023A | eBay


I can't honestly say whether that's the right one or not without seeing the original. I've bought a few carbs off Ebay before. What I did was have the current carb available to look at then started looking at carbs for the same size and make engine off the website. If the throttle, carb linkage and had the primer nipple, that's what I bought. I honestly have not had an issue doing that and most have been Oregon carbs. In fact one that was available but had the wrong choke on it but it was the closest to what I needed. Once I got it I took the choke mechanism off my old carb and put it on the new one and it worked perfect. I took it apart too to check it out and looked like a Tecumseh carb kit parts would work in it too.

Hope that helps.


----------



## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Chuck2 said:


> Those are all great suggestions. Thanks guys.
> 
> HCBPH - I'm with you on all that.
> 
> ...


The download on the manual isn't working for me. Is that insulator you mention a gasket between the carb and block? If so, you do want it and can get it at almost any place that has Tecumseh parts. IIRC that last one I bought (about a yr ago or so) was maybe a dollar or two. It seals the carb to the block, so it is needed.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks for trying, HCBPH.

It does work for me. The Sears Parts Direct page opens first then, a moment later the manual appears.

This insulator appears to be wide & metal like the carb. It looks to mount on the intake end of the carb between it & the heater box with a gasket on both ends of it. Definitely not there on mine. On mine, there is not another part or gasket between it & the heater box.

Something I noticed which seems like a bad design is, this heater box which is open at the bottom is located directly above the left side tire & it seems that if anything were to get flung off it could end up inside the carb.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

I was basing that ebay carb by the part # that Sears lists for carb which is 951-11303A


----------



## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Chuck2 said:


> Something I noticed which seems like a bad design is, this heater box which is open at the bottom is located directly above the left side tire & it seems that if anything were to get flung off it could end up inside the carb.


 You don't have to worry about this unless you go 10 mph +


----------



## cdestuck (Jan 20, 2013)

As to the Oring, sneak over to a neighbors after dark


----------



## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Chuck2 said:


> If I end up buying a carb, can someone confirm for me that this would be the correct one?


That IPC says you have a 951-11303A
Sorry, I didnt look at the link to ebay, but if it is the same as this, yes.

Carburetor 951-11303A

One of those too cheap to not consider a replacement vs rebuild


----------



## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

If the insulator is missing, are your mounting studs like one inch too long? Did someone replace the studs with shorter bolts?


----------



## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

I have no idea what #132 is but being it's in the schematic I'm assuming it's there for a reason. Sorry, no info here.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

dbert said:


> If the insulator is missing, are your mounting studs like one inch too long? Did someone replace the studs with shorter bolts?


Studs do not seem to be too long.
I'm the original owner & those are the factory studs. 

It does seem odd to me how exposed the intake end of the carb is. Almost seems like something more should be there. Seems weird to be able to see the choke plate when everything is assembled. But that could be cause I'm use to seeing an air filter there. This is my first experience on an engine that doesn't require one.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

*Part of Air Cleaner Assembly??*

A couple days ago I was checking out the engines in Harbor Freight. Their engines had this insulator on them. It appears to be a part associated with the air cleaner assembly. So I'm thinking an engine without an air filter would not have this insulator on it. Can anyone confirm this?

Looking at these engines got me wondering....what do you guys do with the air cleaner assembly when repowering your machine with one of them?

Looks like Harbor Freight had the O-ring I needed. Thanks 43128 for that suggestion! I'll know for sure once I reassemble it.(Like Sarah Palin would say "I'll have to get back cha on that one" lol) Seems to be a metric sized one. Never knew till now that there are SAE & metric O-rings. Came in a 225pc kit for $8 on sale for $5 & had a 20% off coupon = $4. Not bad at all.


----------



## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I have no idea what you mean by insulator.

I left my air cleaners on my blowers.

Some people have removed theirs.

Some people have built heat boxes for theirs.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

*Update*

I reinstalled carb & fired her up. She's sputtering more now then before removing carb & now surges rather than idle. I spray carb clean in while it's running. No difference. I'm wondering if I should replace the gaskets. I noticed that if I loosen the 2 nuts holding the carb to the head, it smooth's out. Wth is going on here?? I also noticed that 1 of the studs that the carb mounts on is slightly loose so I tighten it. So with the nuts finger tight she runs good. But I don't think they'll stay on like that. What should I do?

The insulator I was asking about is there. It mounts between the carb & the head. The parts diagram doesn't clearly indicate that. 

The O-ring from the Harbor Freight kit seems to be working fine.


----------



## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

*For O Rings Try Caterpillar Heavy Equipment Dealer*

I went back into the parts room once and I never saw anybody who even came close in stocking O rings. I'm talking sheets of plywood painted white with all the little rings for a shadow board and there was at least 3 or 4 sheets of plywood, possibly more. 
Also they are the extreme quality stuff . I've always been leery of HF for some things and we all know their rubber products are just about the worst in the world. 
As for carbs if it's somewhat common I found Amazon and Ebay are the best places to start. My generator's got all full of crud a few years back and I got the kit tore it all down and cleaned it to death. For whatever reason even with a full kit it wouldn't stay running. I found a whole new carb for $35 which was only $20 more than the carb kit cost. I never even had to tune it one bit either. I just put it on and it ran like a champ.


----------



## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Chuck2 said:


> I spray carb clean in while it's running. No difference. I'm wondering if I should replace the gaskets. I notice that if I loosen the 2 nuts holding the carb to the head, it smooth's out. Wth is going on here?? The insulator I was asking about is there. It mounts between the carb & the head. The parts diagram doesn't clearly indicate that.


Try tightening the carb to manifold bolts and spraying carb cleaner "around" the mating surfaces, not into the carb, and see if engine tempo changes. You may have bad gaskets, a crack in the plastic insulator or a cracked intake manifold. Being that the insulator is plastic, it may also be warped from being tightened to much and doubling the mounting gaskets may help, for awhile. Another possibility is the carb is still malfunctioning and running to rich. Leaving the mounting bolts loose is allowing more air into the intake and balancing out the fuel mix.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks, Driz. I'll keep that in mind.

Great advice, Grunt! I'll give that a try.


----------



## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Chuck2 said:


> I notice that if I loosen the 2 nuts holding the carb to the head, it smooth's out. Wth is going on here?? I also notice that 1 of the studs that the carb mounts on is slightly loose so I tighten it. So with the nuts finger tight she runs good. But I don't think they'll stay on like that. What should I do?


Sounds like you are running too rich. Loosening the carb mounting hardware introduces air (leaks) and leans out the mixture.

Edit. Sorry, I see Grunt already mentioned this.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

That's fine dbert. I don't mind getting the same advice more than once.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

*Did it*



Grunt said:


> Try tightening the carb to manifold bolts and spraying carb cleaner "around" the mating surfaces, not into the carb, and see if engine tempo changes. You may have bad gaskets, a crack in the plastic insulator or a cracked intake manifold. Being that the insulator is plastic, it may also be warped from being tightened to much and doubling the mounting gaskets may help, for awhile. Another possibility is the carb is still malfunctioning and running to rich. Leaving the mounting bolts loose is allowing more air into the intake and balancing out the fuel mix.


I did this & the RPM's did change when I sprayed where the insulator meets the head. So, I'm figuring that I should order the gasket that goes there. And getting the one between the carb & insulator might be a good idea as well.

Another thing I noticed was when tightening the carb onto the studs it causes the carb to move down slightly. So know I'm thinking that the insulator might be warped as you suggested. I'm figuring now that I should order that also. 

So I'm considering ordering all 3 through Sears & finally being done with the step of the process.

I think the carb is fine since it will run smooth with it loose on the studs.

Perhaps I should have bought an Ariens.

Your thoughts?


----------



## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

Those 2 flat gaskets on the carb mounting block are dead simple to make. You have a template by using the block to trace. You can get gasket material at autozone or advance by the sheet cheap. It comes in handy around the shop. You don't need a die set to cut those simple gaskets. A box cutter does nicely. They're no better than oem's. But often keep you from having to mail order or drive around.


----------



## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

driz said:


> Those 2 flat gaskets on the carb mounting block are dead simple to make. You have a template by using the block to trace. You can get gasket material at autozone or advance by the sheet cheap. It comes in handy around the shop. You don't need a die set to cut those simple gaskets. A box cutter does nicely. They're no better than oem's. But often keep you from having to mail order or drive around.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

*I'll try that*

Thanks driz & Shryp. 

Sounds like it's worth trying. They sell a few different types. How do I know which one I should use?


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

*Discouraged*

Here's my first ever attempt at making gaskets. Using a ballpeen hammer like the video showed sure helped.

But the sputtering continues. This time though, spraying carb cleaner around the outside of the carb did not cause a change in RPM's. But still the same results when I loosen the nuts holding the carb on. I'm tempted to put some lock-tite on them & leave them loose.

If the valves needed adjustment, could they cause this sputtering? 

Does anyone know why there is that groove made into the insulator?


----------



## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

The body or flange on the carb might have a crack in it. check for cracks in the body of the carb below the throttle plate and check the carb flange and the spacer plate for cracks.

If you can attach the carb without the spacer plate just to see how the engine runs that will let you know if the spacer is the problem.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Good suggestion but because of how the intake port on the head is angled, the carb can't mount to it without the insulator.

I don't see any cracks. I'd hate to just start throwing parts at it but for $26 maybe I should get a new carb. 

I don't understand though how something could be wrong with a very thoroughly cleaned(twice) non-adjustable carb. Would a jet cause this if it wasn't torqued precisely right? Since this sputtering changes as the carb is tightened, would that rule out adjustment of the valves? And why the heck would the carb move down abit when tightened?


----------



## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Chuck2 said:


> Here's my first ever attempt at making gaskets. Using a ballpeen hammer like the video showed sure helped.
> 
> But the sputtering continues. This time though, spraying carb cleaner around the outside of the carb did not cause a change in RPM's. But still the same results when I loosen the nuts holding the carb on. I'm tempted to put some lock-tite on them & leave them loose.
> 
> ...


You did a decent job of making the gaskets, but, you cut the center a little to large and it does not have the tiny hole for the groove in the insulator. I believe the little hole lines up with the groove which I think is a vent for the carb?? If the gasket isn't lined up perfectly or is made wrong, you will still have problems. Since loosening the carb still smooth's out the running, I still think you may have a cracked insulator, manifold or carb flange allowing more air into the carb.

If the valves were out of adjustment, tightening or loosening the carb would have no effect on the engine running.


----------



## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

To bring us all up to speed...
Does you carb look like the one in this pdf?
Generator (vs snowblower) with the insulator that looks like yours.
http://losdos.dyndns.org/public/misc/Generator_Carb_Guide.pdf


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Yes it looks the same.
Here is a pic of mine. Got other views also if wanted.


----------



## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I was referring more to the way it connected to the insulator like on the bottom of page 10.
Did you find a good replacement for the idle jet o-ring?
Most folks with carb issues today run lean from restricted/plugged passageways. You are running rich so I am trying to figure out where the extra fuel is coming from.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

That still does look like mine.

I was able to get an O-ring for the jet.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

*Another Update*

I installed a new plug & left the nuts holding the carb on loose to where it seemed to run smooth and put Loc-tite on them. Reassembled everything. Still sputters the same as before I did anything at all to it. Ugg.

I think it's odd how the carb moves down when the nuts are tightened. Kind of seems like something might be bent.

I'm getting very tempted to order new carb, insulator(spacer), & both gaskets.

What would you do?


----------



## ruiterman (Dec 27, 2014)

*What about the needle and seat*

Chuck,

I just recently worked on a Craftsman snow blower that had some carb issues. The issues I saw were more related to running lean rather than rich. The issue was the idle jet was plugged so I ended up replacing the carb rather than a carb kit since it was so cheap.

One thing to note, many times when an engine it running rich, it is because the needle and seat is leaking. Simple to check. Drain and remove the carb, you can take the bowl off. The put a short piece of fuel tubing on the fuel inlet to the carb. Turn the carb upside down so the needle and seat are closed. Suck on the fuel inlet to pull a vacuum. Once the vacuum is pulled, stick your tongue on the inlet. It should hold the vacuum for a long time. If it releases the vacuum, even slowly, the needle and seat are bad and a carb kit is in order.

Ed


----------



## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Welcome to SBF Ed. 
If your first post here is to offer help you must be a good guy.
Typically there are other symptoms when the machine is not running if the float needle doesn't seal correctly though doesn't it? Like fuel leaks out of carb or fuel into crankcase and mixes with the oil?


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Welcome Ed & thanks for the advice. I appreciate your first post here being one offering me help.

I'll consider doing that. If I get a new carb, I'll try that on it and the original one for curiosity sake.

ATP I'm about to order a new carb, insulator & gaskets.


----------



## ruiterman (Dec 27, 2014)

*Thanks for the welcome*

Yes, that was my first post. I appreciate the welcome and am glad to help. I have been lurking around here for a short while and like what I see and the help everyone gives. I will have to pop over to the intro thread sometime and give a more complete intro rather than hijack this thread with my boring details.

dbert,

Yes, you are correct that the first symptoms are typically leaking either out of the carb or into the oil. But since it hadn't been checked, and it seemed that the carb had been off and on so many times, I am not sure if those symptoms would have been noticed. Although on the other hand, a leaky needle and seat will typically not affect the engine running unless the leaking is pretty severe, but it is something easy to check and rule out.

For me, I never put a carb back on without checking the needle and seat, it's just part of my cleaning procedure.

This is a pretty strange issue and so looking for any solution may help. Which, another way to test this theory would be to let the carb fill up, then turn off the fuel. If there is no fuel shutoff, then disconnect the tank, or crimping off the fuel line would do it. Do this after the engine is warmed up a bit. But this basically keeps the fuel from running into the carb and the engine is running on just the fuel in the bowl. If it runs well for a bit before the fuel gets too low in the bowl, this would indicate the needle and seat are leaking. 

Some will claim float level too, but this does not have an adjustable float. Although a float that is full of fuel would to it too.

One last thing. Is it possible to post of picture of the other side of the carb, to get the numbers from it? On the carb I replaced, the number that pulled up from the Sears system was different that looking it up by the carb itself. The cost difference was about $60 bucks as wll, from $30 something to $90 something cost wise. From what I understand, the different carb numbers are not only throttle and choke configurations, but tuning configurations (main and idle jet sizes) as well.

Good luck and keep us posted, I am definitely interested in what the problem may be.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

*Carb Numbers*

Thanks again Ed.

Here's a pic of the only #'s on the carb.


----------



## ruiterman (Dec 27, 2014)

According to the info (document) that I have on the Huayi carbs, the 183SA carb is part number 951-14023A.

951-14023A CARB ASM: HY-183SA Huayi


The document I used to get the information is:

*ALL MTD BRANDS
TECH BRIEF 01.08.13.01
(MTD CARBURETOR / REBUILD KIT IDENTIFICATION )
*​
I'm not sure if you ordered the carb yet, but certainly want to make sure you get the right one.



Chuck2 said:


> Thanks again Ed.
> 
> Here's a pic of the only #'s on the carb.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Thank you for providing that info. I had actually came across that myself also.

I just now completed an order for the carb on ebay. I wasn't able to send a message to the seller until that step in the process which seemed rather odd but I provided #'s I had(including pics), which did match ones in the description of the carb, to be sure I ordered the correct one. One of those being the same that you came up with. So, I feel confident that I'll be getting the correct one.

Now I'm going to order the insulator & gaskets thru Sears.


----------



## ruiterman (Dec 27, 2014)

*Any luck yet?*

Chuck,

Just wondering if you have received any parts yet, or if you have any eta on when they might arrive. I'm curious if any more progress has been made.

Ed


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks for the interest Ed.

I do have the 4 new parts still in the box the came in. They all look good. Thought I was going to get at it tonight but did a couple things to my dirt bike which took longer than expected. If these don't get it running smooth, I don't know what will.

I noticed the axle has some play in it that is causing the wheels to be angled inward at the top. Seems like it should not be that way. And I hate the way it looks. So I got a few flat washers to try & fix that. But the only ones that the hardware store had that are big enough to fit on the axle, I think are going to be too thick. We shall see though.


----------



## ruiterman (Dec 27, 2014)

*Axle*

Chuck,

I was just looking at the transmission and axle design for your snowblower. 

TRANSMISSION/WHEELS Diagram & Parts List for Model 247888301 Craftsman-Parts Snow-removal-equipment-Parts | SearsPartsDirect

http://c.searspartsdirect.com/lis_png/PLDM/1108075P-00003.png

I was trying to figure out how it would be possible for the wheels/axles get any type of slack or play that would cause them to be angled in. Looking as the design I would be concerned the actual problem would be related to Item #9 which appears to hold the two axles level. Any wear or breakage of one of the axles or this tube could cause your problem. It might be a good idea to inspect the axles to insure there is not something broken that if not repaired properly may cause more damage to other parts. I see that some of these parts a quite expensive (at least through Sears Parts Direct).

Good luck and I hope you get it working.

Ed


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks, Ed. I appreciate you diggin' in to that for me.

I'll keep that in mind when I open her back up some day soon.


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

Whole replacement carbs are cheap on Amazon that might be an alternative.


----------



## Chuck2 (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks, Pathfinder. I did get a new one off ebay for $26. Just haven't installed it yet. I find amazon rather confusing with the way the items are listed. But I usually see what is offered there prior to making a purchase.


----------

