# 420cc Briggs & Stratton Vs LCT? => Help Me Decide



## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Hi,

I was just notified by my Ariens dealer that I could get the snowblower I ordered with either the Briggs & Stratton engine or the LCT engine. Originally I was told that they only had access to the LCT engine version, so this means now I have to decide. This is the 420cc carbureted engine (wanted EFI, but not available with Ariens FasTrak :-().

After searching around on the web, it's hard to tell if one is better than the other. Most of the experts (Paul Sikkema and others) don't seem to have a strong preference either way. Maybe that's a good thing and means that they're both OK. But I'm obsessing over this and hoping you guys can chime-in and help tip the scales for me one way or the other.

Any feedback appreciated!

Regards,
Eric


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## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

Is the LCT a 420 Also???? I assume you meant both but...want to be sure.


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## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

Or LCt 414CC?


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

From what I know, both are good engines mechanically. I've got a Briggs 420 personally and it's been a good unit so far. The Briggs does have the advantage of a much larger fuel tank (about 1.5 gallons) and there's also a 12v starter, etc. available for this engine, so battery start conversion is fairly easy if desired.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Yes, both 420cc.


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## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

Briggs Gross Torque 21 ft. lbs. 
LCT Gross Torque 20 ft. lbs.

Briggs 1.5 gallon Tank
LCT 1 Gallon Tank

Briggs weighs 81LBS.
LCT weighs75.5LBS.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Here's what I found on power:

B&S
----
Torque curve: http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/khovsNDvrS8lFix2.pdf (re-edited to fix this)
The max HP is at 3600 RPM. The torque at that RPM looks like about 19.8 ft lbs, so a quick HP calculation gives 13.6 HP

LCT
----
Couldn't find a torque curve.
But see page 3 of: https://redlionproducts.com/media/4...l-pgh45163_online_service_man_revd_101413.pdf
They quote 13.0 HP

So if you believe all that the B&S is slightly more powerful.


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## bbwb (Oct 25, 2018)

Go with the Briggs. The EFI, LCT version has a half gallon tank which leads to a short run time of about 45 minutes. The carburetor version of the Briggs has a larger tank as I recall.
Robert


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

bbwb said:


> Go with the Briggs. The EFI, LCT version has a half gallon tank which leads to a short run time of about 45 minutes. The carburetor version of the Briggs has a larger tank as I recall.
> Robert


There is no EFI LCT version offered. The only LCT option I have is the non-EFI version.

Do you know what the gas tank size is on the non-EFI LCT engine?

I still don't feel like there's much to differentiate between the two options.

I understand that Ariens is getting away from B&S. I heard that the reason is simply because B&S now owns a bunch of other snowblower brands, which makes them a competitor to Ariens.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

I know the throttle's are different on both. I prefer the Briggs throttle because it has a wide range and is easily adjusted. Some on the forum have mentioned that the LCT throttle is just idle or full. I don't know if this is the case on the LCT 420cc but you might check if this makes a difference to you.


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## Badger9402 (Mar 3, 2019)

I had ordered the Pro model with the B&S engine during the summer. I wanted the Briggs due to the larger fuel tank, and better throttle control. When the new machine came in, it was the Ariens LCT engine of the same cc, but the small fuel tank that comes on most of the high end models. Dealer claimed this was the newest model. I was a little upset, but decided to go with it. Further searching, I learned that there was some issues with the Brigg carb's, being plastic, and parts were hard to get for the Ariens dealers. That's all I know, but I will miss the larger fuel tand.
Good luck with your decision.


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## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

Check post #6


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## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

https://lctusa.com/product/stormforce-414/

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...nes/snow-blower-engines/2100-snow-series.html

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...er-engines/2100-professional-series-snow.html


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

For those quoting the torque for the LCT as 20 ft lbs, that's what I've seen listed for the LCT 414cc. I've seen their 420cc listed as 21 ft lbs, same as the Briggs. LCT's engines seem to have peak torque at a higher RPM though. And their max rated RPM is higher on some. So while we can't know for sure without a torque curve, I wouldn't be shocked if peak HP on the LCT 420cc is closer to 14 hp somewhere in the 3800 RPM range (max RPM is 3900 for a lot of their engines). 

The published Briggs torque curve ends at 3600 and judging by the shape of it at that point, I'd say peak HP is right around 3600 - 3700. At 3600 it makes 13.6 hp, maybe if we're lucky it's 13.7 at 3700.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Badger9402 said:


> I had ordered the Pro model with the B&S engine during the summer. I wanted the Briggs due to the larger fuel tank, and better throttle control. When the new machine came in, it was the Ariens LCT engine of the same cc, but the small fuel tank that comes on most of the high end models. Dealer claimed this was the newest model. I was a little upset, but decided to go with it. Further searching, I learned that there was some issues with the Brigg carb's, being plastic, and parts were hard to get for the Ariens dealers. That's all I know, but I will miss the larger fuel tand.
> Good luck with your decision.


Maybe on something, somewhere in time Briggs used plastic carbs on certain lawn equipment sometime. I did some searching by going out to my garage and looking at my snow engines and both carbs and engines looked identical to the one in this video:


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Badger9402 said:


> I had ordered the Pro model with the B&S engine during the summer. I wanted the Briggs due to the larger fuel tank, and better throttle control. When the new machine came in, it was the Ariens LCT engine of the same cc, but the small fuel tank that comes on most of the high end models. Dealer claimed this was the newest model. I was a little upset, but decided to go with it. Further searching, I learned that there was some issues with the Brigg carb's, being plastic, and parts were hard to get for the Ariens dealers. That's all I know, but I will miss the larger fuel tand.
> Good luck with your decision.


The "LCT being the newer model" is consistent with Ariens getting away from B&S, since Ariens and B&S are now direct competitors since B&S acquired a number of snowblower brands.

I called Ariens directly to ask about the relative fuel tank sizes and they couldn't give me an answer. They went on to say "they're pretty sure the tanks are similar sizes". But from what I hear online that was bad information.

I heard that the B&S fuel tank is 1.5 gal. SimplicitySolid22 was saying the LCT was 1 gal.

The B&S carb on the Ariens blower in the video from Zavie was all metal, except for the choke shaft. I did find another video showing a plastic carb on a B&S engine, but it might have been a lower-end product.

It would be helpful if you could provide any links on the B&S carb issues also?

It turns out that my dealer is getting one of each of the B&S and LCT models in and I can simply chose which ever one I want. So I'll finally be able to see the fuel tanks and carbs in person before deciding.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

SimplicitySolid22 said:


> Check post #6


Ariens quotes 21 ft lbs for both the LCT and the B&S, but I realize some numbers seem to get fudged.

If one engine was clearly more powerful than the other, that would help me decide. But it seems overly hard to tell what's real with power numbers.

One other point is that while more torque generally correlates to more power, that's not a given since power is torque x speed. It's nice to see a torque curve, since that not only gives you the power, but you can tell which model has got a wider torque curve (which is better).


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

The Briggs engines are easier to get parts for and their "Support" system is a lot better.
LCT was making EFI engines for the new model Ariens snowblowers, but it is a new model engine and all of the "Bugs" aren't worked out of them yet. They came out last year with the EFI and it is still in the "Experimental Stage". I would give it about 5 years to "prove" itself before I would consider looking at them.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Badger9402 said:


> I had ordered the Pro model with the B&S engine during the summer. I wanted the Briggs due to the larger fuel tank, and better throttle control. When the new machine came in, it was the Ariens LCT engine of the same cc, but the small fuel tank that comes on most of the high end models. Dealer claimed this was the newest model. I was a little upset, but decided to go with it. Further searching, I learned that there was some issues with the Brigg carb's, being plastic, and parts were hard to get for the Ariens dealers. That's all I know, but I will miss the larger fuel tand.
> Good luck with your decision.


Those plastic Carburetors were used on lawnmower engines and they were junk in the beginning. They used to crack and they also were made from the wrong type of plastic in the beginning, they have since changed the plastic that they are made with now.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> The Briggs engines are easier to get parts for and their "Support" system is a lot better.
> LCT was making EFI engines for the new model Ariens snowblowers, but it is a new model engine and all of the "Bugs" aren't worked out of them yet. They came out last year with the EFI and it is still in the "Experimental Stage". I would give it about 5 years to "prove" itself before I would consider looking at them.


Well said, exactly my feelings also.


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## MarkChambers (Oct 20, 2019)

https://lctusa.com/introducing-electronic-fuel-injection-snow-throwers/


https://lctusa.com/product/stormforce-414-2/


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## Badger9402 (Mar 3, 2019)

I can tell you for a fact that the fuel tank on the 420cc AX engine is smaller. I think it is just the way the engine design is with the placement of the fuel tank. When I contacted Ariens, their explanation was that these new engines were more fuel efficient, and a larger fuel tank is not necessary....I don't know what the right answer is, but given the choice, I think would have gone with the B&S engine, but I DID NOT have that choice. Maybe seeing them side by side will help with your decision, and in any case please let us know what you went with.


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## bbwb (Oct 25, 2018)

Badger9402 said:


> I can tell you for a fact that the fuel tank on the 420cc AX engine is smaller. I think it is just the way the engine design is with the placement of the fuel tank. When I contacted Ariens, their explanation was that these new engines were more fuel efficient, and a larger fuel tank is not necessary....I don't know what the right answer is, but given the choice, I think would have gone with the B&S engine, but I DID NOT have that choice. Maybe seeing them side by side will help with your decision, and in any case please let us know what you went with.


That is correct, the LCT EFI fuel tanks are smaller...about half a gallon. On mine, I get about 45 minutes of total run time.
I am not surprised Ariens argues the efficiency, just covering their butts for a bad design (Ariens dictated the size and shape of the gas tank to LCT). For a professional grade machine to require the user to drag a gas can around is unacceptable.

My EFI had to go back to the shop at the end of the season this spring and have the brains changed out due to a high voltage condition. When I serviced the machine to put it away, I found broken bolts for the auger brake broken (over torqued at the factory)

Not impressed with Ariens Engineering or quality!


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

rslifkin said:


> For those quoting the torque for the LCT as 20 ft lbs, that's what I've seen listed for the LCT 414cc. I've seen their 420cc listed as 21 ft lbs, same as the Briggs. LCT's engines seem to have peak torque at a higher RPM though. And their max rated RPM is higher on some. So while we can't know for sure without a torque curve, I wouldn't be shocked if peak HP on the LCT 420cc is closer to 14 hp somewhere in the 3800 RPM range (max RPM is 3900 for a lot of their engines).
> 
> The published Briggs torque curve ends at 3600 and judging by the shape of it at that point, I'd say peak HP is right around 3600 - 3700. At 3600 it makes 13.6 hp, maybe if we're lucky it's 13.7 at 3700.


Regarding the HP for the B&S curve, it does seem possible that the possible max HP point of the curve could be higher than 3600 RPM. But the way they cut off the curve at 3600 RPM had me assuming that the governor may limit it to that; not sure.

But if the LCT does have the same max torque as the B&S, but at a higher RPM, then it is by definition more powerful (by exactly the ratio of RPM at max torque).

It would be nice (and would increase credibility) for LCT to publish torque curves like B&S and Honda do.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

I must say that I really appreciate the insights and commentary from everyone here; thanks folks!

Currently I'm leaning toward the B&S for the following main reasons that others have mentioned:
* Larger fuel tank
* Better throttle
* Better parts network
* Similar power - Even worst-case if the LCT is slightly more power (not sure), I'm not too worried about not having enough power with the 28 inch size machine

Any further data/comments/insights appreciated!

Regards,
Eric


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

I'll agree with that decision. 

As far as power, I doubt there's enough difference to really notice. Without a full curve for each engine we can't be sure of what the torque drop-off looks like at higher RPM to figure out the exact power peak. 

As far as running RPM for the Briggs, they don't give a spec directly from Briggs. Ariens says 3600 +/- 100, so I tweaked mine to turn 3700 with no load. It's got plenty of power for a 28", although I can't say I'd mind more power and a correspondingly faster impeller speed to let me walk faster in deep snow.

If you ever have a desire to convert the Briggs powered machine to battery start, feel free to ask questions. I did it to mine last year (120v electric start is dumb IMO and the pull start on the Briggs is a bit rough on the shoulder). I think I posted about it somewhere on here when I did it.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

The shape of the B&S tank is the same as the LCT tank. My 414 engine had a spec for 3 liter (0.79 us gallons) capacity but I could only put 2.5 liters (0.66 us gallons) in it from fully drained. I put the B&S tank on my 414 engine and it fits well, just a bit taller. The B&S tank will hold 6 liters (1.58 us gallons) from fully empty. Mounts are a little different as are the fuel tank covers to prevent snow from getting into the top of engine. The governor for the B&S engine is on the throttle as a stop screw while the LCT has a governor arm with 3 holes for one end of spring (center hole is stock) and a fixed end for the spring on the cooling shield. So it is easier to change the governed engine speed on the B&S engine. 

The LCT engine is very good. Has lots of power at 3,700 rpm the max recommended by Ariens and even more at 3,900 rpm the max recommended by LCT. This is for my 2015 engine so 2020 engines may be different and I think the B&S tank I got was for a 2016 model.

Good luck with your choice.


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## Badger9402 (Mar 3, 2019)

Town, you don't happen to have any pictures of your machine with the B&S gas tank installed, and maybe a parts list to make that changeover ? 



Thanks


Jim


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

One thing I noticed in the Ariens warranty information, if I read it correctly, was that the LCT engines are warrantied right through Ariens, but the B&S are warrantied with B&S. 

Not sure if that matters much, but I’m stating that to see what comment anyone has on it.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Badger9402 said:


> Town, you don't happen to have any pictures of your machine with the B&S gas tank installed, and maybe a parts list to make that changeover ?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim


Yes, pics attached. The B&S tank (part BR799782) comes complete from Ariens with the cap and fuel outlet with screen costing CAD$127 in spring of 2016. Needed a fuel shut off costing CAD$11. I did not buy the B&S shielding to prevent snow from getting on top of engine, rather I cut up the original shielding for quick access to governor and fuel line from tank to shutoff valve. Once the machine is set up to my liking then I will buy the proper shielding.

The engine mount from B&S on engine side of tank is the same as the LCT but the arms need to be longer so bent flat steel into a U based on mock-up dimensions. The mounts on the starter side of tank are altogether different so needed a custom mount on the rear bolt. I am not a fabricator so it is not professional looking. The oil fill is much easier to install and remove now with the B&S tank compared to the tight location of the LCT tank.

No problems with the tank or with the warm air shrouding the carb. It runs perfectly in the coldest and snowy conditions. I can fill the tank easily with 6 liters of gas so I can easily finish 8 driveways and EOD and paths without a re-fill - my objective.


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## Badger9402 (Mar 3, 2019)

Thank you sir, much appreciated. I think I see a project in the near future. And I bet fuel doesn't weep out from the top of the gas tank either...


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

No fuel leaking from cap, it is a very simple design.


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

No leaks from my Briggs cap either. And no weird stuff under the cap, so it's easy to see fuel level while filling. For my use, the tank is big enough that unlike most equipment where I top the tank off after every use, it's more like "check fuel level after use and fill if it's under half". I keep fuel out in the shed, not in the garage, so only having to walk out there in the snow every few uses is nice. Last year, we had one good full weekend snowstorm. Started the weekend with a full tank in the blower, didn't have to add fuel to it all weekend.


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## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

OK, I got the new machine this week and I'm psyched and all ready for winter!

See pics below.

One thing I noticed was that the chute control hardware changed from gen 2 to gen 3 starting at S/N 1500 (see last pic). Fortunately mine was above that S/N and I got the gen 3 hardware version.

I was appreciative that my dealer went out of his way to reach-out and give me my pick of the B&S or LCT version.

This is actually my second new Ariens snowblower. My first was a circa 1977 924022 that I bought for the snow removal service I had in high school.

Thanks again to everyone for all the helpful and friendly advice and commentary. It really provides confidence in purchasing choices to get all the inputs!


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