# Briggs 8 HP using oil



## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

I have a '78 Toro 826 with a Briggs model 190402. Last winter I had to add oil every 2nd time I cleaned the driveway. I tore it down to put fresh rings in it and lap the valves this weekend and found slight to medium play in the valve guides - exhaust is the worst. What do I do now? If it goes another 2-3 years, that's OK with me or I may even sell it this fall.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

predator 412cc repower, you might be able to drill out the current guides and install inserts, if not it probably wont last much longer. i would probably fix it the way i described for now and when it gets really bad replace it with the predator


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## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

Do you need special tools to insert guides?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Can the guides be knurled on a small engine ?? Short of replacing a valve guide knurling on an automotive head is pretty common during a rebuild.


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## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

That's a good question. I suppose I should call a machine shop about that. I talked to a small engine shop that says they don't repair the engine when they find worn guides. They also said they've got used b&s 8 HP engines for $150.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i woild be looking at the 301cc predator motor


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

That's the problem with a small engine, the labor to repair if you're paying out of pocket just doesn't make sense. The parts are usually bad enough. :facepalm_zpsdj194qh


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## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

The machine shop claims they can put inserts in for $12 per valve. Seems cheap to me. I figure I'll let them take a look at and do it if they don't see any other obvious problems. If things start getting expensive, I'll probably slap it back together and run til its totally dead.


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

It sounds believable. There are special tools to ream the stock block then the inserts just press in. I don't hear of it being done that often but it's an age old process.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Hopefully that is all that is needed to repair the engine. I used to have an old Briggs that puffed oil and rather than dump money into it I replaced it. If you can repair it for a reasonable cost go for it and if it works well than it is money well spent.


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## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

It's at the machine shop now. They are supposed to call if it needs more than just the inserts. If it needs the cylinder bored or something, I'll give up on it.


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## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

They say its done. Miked the cylinder, One guide insert, two valves and something with seats. $103. Starting to question if it was worth it but I'm getting an education if nothing else.


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## artbob3962 (Nov 30, 2014)

What happened to the $24's you were quoted. I would be sick if someone 
charged me that much. 212cc predators are $99 or less.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

artbob3962 said:


> What happened to the $24's you were quoted. I would be sick if someone
> charged me that much. 212cc predators are $99 or less.


That was most likely just the cost of the valve guides. Labor is a much bigger factor and likely explains the rest of the bill. It better run as well as a 212cc Predator because you spent the same amount of money on fixing an old obsolete flat head engine. I say do what you think is right. A good running original engine is ok as long as it is a good running engine. However for the money you can not beat a modern OHV in how well they run and how affordable the clones are since they run like the Honda engines they are designed on at a fraction of the cost of the Honda engine. Hopefully it will run well and he will not have buyers remorse. That is why I repowered my Gilson made Montgomery Ward 8/26 since it was puffing blue smoke every once in a while and I hate to spend money on fixing an obsolete engine flat head engine.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Replace the flint in a Zippo or buy a Bic throw away.

I think you will be just fine for another 30 years.

Good luck finding parts for the throw away in 3 years.

Long live the flathead


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

scrappy said:


> Replace the flint in a Zippo or buy a Bic throw away.
> 
> I think you will be just fine for another 30 years.
> 
> ...


Except that you can get readily get parts for the engine. So it is not a throw away engine. Here is a link to stock parts.

Stock OEM Engine Parts - Predator 212cc - ARC Racing

Also if you want to hop it up you can and here is a link to performance parts.

Hi Performance Parts - Predator 212 - ARC Racing


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## Rob711 (Feb 5, 2015)

I can appreciate your thinking, you took your small engine to I assume your local small engine shop, paid for there expertise, and hopefully you'll get a good running engine for years to come. That being said, unless ur on the stock snowblower touring circuit, I believe you would have been better off with a Honda clone made with slave labor. The overhead valve design is just a better engine, they are more efficient, quieter, and out perform similar displacement l heads. It is yet to be known the longevity of these clones but for 100$ I rolled the dice myself. I'm sure it will work out
Rob


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Rob711 said:


> I can appreciate your thinking, you took your small engine to I assume your local small engine shop, paid for there expertise, and hopefully you'll get a good running engine for years to come. That being said, unless ur on the stock snowblower touring circuit, I believe you would have been better off with a Honda clone made with slave labor. The overhead valve design is just a better engine, they are more efficient, quieter, and out perform similar displacement l heads. It is yet to be known the longevity of these clones but for 100$ I rolled the dice myself. I'm sure it will work out
> Rob


The cart racing circut beat the snot out of them and they seem to last through the season with more abuse than any snowblower engine will ever see. Yeah they are made with cheap Chinese labor mostly of a stolen Honda design


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## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

Now that the snow is flying and the rebuilt engine is running, I thought I'd chime in with my opinion on what I should have done. Hindsight is 20/20, they say. I have about $150 into it for new rings, headgasket, 2 valves, 1 valve guide and valve seats machined plus my own labor. Strictly looking at money, I should have just bought a Predator. However, the rebuild process gave me an education. I feel that's worth something. I think got gouged a little by the machine shop as well. I should have told them to just do the $12 insert they quoted. I could of bought valves much cheaper online and lapped them into the seats myself.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

michigansnowbird said:


> Now that the snow is flying and the rebuilt engine is running, I thought I'd chime in with my opinion on what I should have done. Hindsight is 20/20, they say. I have about $150 into it for new rings, headgasket, 2 valves, 1 valve guide and valve seats machined plus my own labor. Strictly looking at money, I should have just bought a Predator. However, the rebuild process gave me an education. I feel that's worth something. I think got gouged a little by the machine shop as well. I should have told them to just do the $12 insert they quoted. I could of bought valves much cheaper online and lapped them into the seats myself.


Don't look back, just make you crazy. Does it run well now, and has it stopped burning oil. If its good, just think that you kept something out of the junk yard, and the machine is still original and works like new. I know, tall order. On the plus side, the predator engine paint scheme probably clashes with your blower. :icon_whistling:


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## dodgetrucker (Jan 15, 2016)

that Briggs lasted almost 40 years and you can still get parts for it... if it were obsolete there would be no parts available for it. That Briggs may well go another 25-30 years. Will these Predators? I doubt it. Those things are brand new, current production, and parts are already scarce. What does that say about your beloved Predators? 
Predator engines? thanks but no thanks.


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## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

Yeah it runs well and doesn't make a huge blue cloud anymore. I mainly wanted to tell everyone how it all worked in the end to help out the next guy who runs into the repair vs replace situation.


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

The repair/replace is definitely changed by how much you are willing to do yourself. It came out nice but like you said, in a purely budgetary view maybe the thing was get it done as cheap as possible and buy/lap valves yourself. And you'd learn even more.


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

It's not my ball of wax but admittedly Predator parts are available now. However IMO there is such market fragmentation today that the likelihood of support going on for decades is unlikely, again my opinionated forecast.

What I can say is that for me there is far more pride and joy in getting an older engine into good shape than bolting in a clone.





GustoGuy said:


> Except that you can get readily get parts for the engine. So it is not a throw away engine. Here is a link to stock parts.
> 
> Stock OEM Engine Parts - Predator 212cc - ARC Racing
> 
> ...


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

Spectrum said:


> What I can say is that for me there is far more pride and joy in getting an older engine into good shape than bolting in a clone.


We have a WINNER!!!!!


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## michigansnowbird (Nov 27, 2014)

Yeah I do get more satisfaction from breathing new life into an old engine than I would from slapping on a new store-bought motor


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