# 3-stage vs. 2-stage Performance



## Zap

Are 3-stage snow blowers really twice as fast as 2-stage for comparable sized machines? Home Depot's snow blower expert says 3-stage Cub Cadet 28 inch machine is much faster than 2-stage Ariens 30" even though Ariens costs more.


----------



## sscotsman

nope..the 3-stage is a marketing gimmick, nothing more.
It adds no performance upgrade at all..
and they arent really "3-stage" at all..
they are 2-stage, just with a different auger design..
the "second stage", the impeller, is the same as any other snowblower..
and thats the part that throws the snow..the augers only get the snow to the impeller so it can be thrown, and I see no advantage at all to the (so called) "3 stage" auger design.

its just a gimmick..
also, Cub Cadets, overall, are rated quite poorly in the quality department..

The 3-stage idea isnt necessarily _bad_..
it seems to work just fine..it gets the snow to the impeller just as well as a traditional auger design..
but there is no reason to think its any _better_ than a traditional 2-stage of the same size and specs.
there is no evidence for that.. only marketing claims!  which personally, I don't believe.

the snowblower was perfected 50 years ago..
2-stage, friction disk.

any so-called "advances" to that design, ("3 stage", hydro transmission, etc.) are just "different" but not demonstrably "better"..

Scot


----------



## ewhenn

It's a marketing gimmick, more stages must be better right?!? IMO the "3 stage" units are actually leas effective. The forward impeller from what I have seen actually sends the snow sideways out of the clear path.

Cub cadet does have some good units but they are dealer only, not big box store units. The big box ones are pretty much MTD rebrands from what I can tell.


----------



## sscotsman

ewhenn said:


> Cub cadet does have some good units but they are dealer only, not big box store units. The big box ones are pretty much MTD rebrands from what I can tell.


All cub Cadets are "MTD rebrands"..or more specifically:
"All Cub Cadets are MTD's" 
The Cub Cadet name has been owned by MTD since 1981.

Scot


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

Welcome to the forum Zap.

There is no such a thing as a "Home Depot Snowblower Expert". At best you might find someone in the store who has worked on their own machine(s) and was willing to spend some time learning what they sell. Even with a Dealer I'd double check what I was told as even the dealer "Experts" might be inclined to steer you towards what is more profitable for them, what they have more stock of or just their personal preference rather than evaluate what might be best for you.

I don't have a new three stage but from what I've read the new 3 stage with the fan blowing snow to the impeller doesn't seem like any big benefit.
As mentioned above if you're considering a new machine like a cub you might want to check it against a Craftsman with the same features and see what kind of $$$ you might save. Getting the Cub in MTD or Craftsman clothing will likely save you some money and at least Sears has a service department of their own.


----------



## Spectrum

IMO the flimsy nature of the MTD/ Cub Cadette "3 stage" design ends the discussion before it starts. The auger feeds the snow to the impeller and then the impeller does the work we really value. The standard concept of 2 converging screws is simple and effective.

The other potential value is for the center "beanie propeller" to screw into the snow and help pull the machine forward. All modern machines are handicapped by needing to press the auger side plates into the snow, especially stiff EOD deposits. This was a lot easier when buckets stopped short of the auger flights.








Machines such as these have a huge performance advantage and do amazingly well with turf style tires. Safety however is not such an easy sell.

Pete


----------



## detdrbuzzard

Zap said:


> Are 3-stage snow blowers really twice as fast as 2-stage for comparable sized machines? Home Depot's snow blower expert says 3-stage Cub Cadet 28 inch machine is much faster than 2-stage Ariens 30" even though Ariens costs more.


hello zap, welcome to *SBF*
ask the guy at home depot if he has ever used the cub and ariens in some snow or if he is just arm chair quarterbacking, anyone can read a spec sheet or sales brochure


----------



## Stuofsci02

The 3 stage blowers are a solution to a problem that does not exist. The literature suggests that the 3rd stage gets more snow to the impeller faster, but in reality the bottleneck for most blowers is not the auger, but how fast the impeller can clear the snow the auger feeds it.

If the feed rate to the impeller is really an issue, then the solution would be to speed up the auger on a two stage.


----------



## Zap

*Thanks everyone for 2stage/3stage info*

Very insightful folks.
Did not know that Cub is MTD.
Are Ariens units manufactured by Ariens? In US?
Are Home Depot 30 " Ariens units commercial grade? If not what is an Ariens commercial grade blower? I'll also check their site of course?

Thanks again.


----------



## Snowzer

I was at Sears looking over snowblowers. I overheard a guy say to the salesman that he bought a 2 stage 30 inch at $1200 in August when we had a sales tax free day (save 6.25% once a year always in August). He noticed that since he bought the 2 stage they now had a 3 stage sitting next to it for only $100 more. Sadly for him) the salesman said that it was a much better machine and referred to it as a "MONSTER" compared to everything on the floor. Sadly for him again the salesman said that if he returned what he had and then purchased the 3 stage that he would have to additionally pay the 6.25% sales tax as that was the state law. 

So if you can believe the salesman that 3 stage will out power the 2 stage in a big way. Question is can we believe the salesman.


----------



## Cardo111

Zap said:


> Very insightful folks.
> Did not know that Cub is MTD.
> Are Ariens units manufactured by Ariens? In US?
> Are Home Depot 30 " Ariens units commercial grade? If not what is an Ariens commercial grade blower? I'll also check their site of course?
> 
> Thanks again.


Zap,

Ariens manufactures their snow blowers in the United States and are based out of Brillion WI. However the engines used like all retail snowblower engines today are manufactured in China. Ariens equips their machines with either LCT or Briggs & Stratton engines that are designed in the U.S. and are manufactured in China.

The Ariens Deluxe 30 is a heavy duty snowblower but not what Ariens would consider commercial/professional grade.

Ariens has a Professional series that currently ranges from 28"- 36" in auger width and are powered by the Briggs and Stratton Polarforce 420cc engines which are built to Ariens specs, they have 16" augers, heavier gauge auger housing side panels, heavier skid shoes, gearbox and a taller intake housing of 23.5" instead of 21." They start at about $2200.


----------



## skutflut

Snowzer said:


> I was at Sears looking over snowblowers. I overheard a guy say to the salesman that he bought a 2 stage 30 inch at $1200 in August when we had a sales tax free day (save 6.25% once a year always in August). He noticed that since he bought the 2 stage they now had a 3 stage sitting next to it for only $100 more. Sadly for him) the salesman said that it was a much better machine and referred to it as a "MONSTER" compared to everything on the floor. Sadly for him again the salesman said that if he returned what he had and then purchased the 3 stage that he would have to additionally pay the 6.25% sales tax as that was the state law.
> 
> So if you can believe the salesman that 3 stage will out power the 2 stage in a big way. Question is can we believe the salesman.


Of course we can! Who ever heard of an untrustworthy salesman? k:


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

Welcome to the forum Skutflut :white^_^arial^_^0^_


----------



## Marty013

i think some of you may be overlooking an important point on the 3 stagers... lets forget the fact it has a 3rd stage up front.. and consider the power these things pack... purely engine power... YES i baught a new machine aslt spring.. YES its a 3 stage machine... the HD models.. NO.. not for the 3 stages.. but rather.. its the cheapest way you can get a 420CC engine and a warrantee  for the SAME price.. almost to the dollar.. Ariens only offers a Delux28 with a 254CC engine... for me.. the choice was easy to make..

same width buckets... but a good 5HP more at least... same warrantee on both products.. 3 year on machine.. 5 yr on gbox... thicker metal (11ga vs 12 ga) 

thats my 2 cents... and i WILL let you guys know how it handles snow once we get some.. and get some we will


----------



## sscotsman

Snowzer said:


> I was at Sears looking over snowblowers. I overheard a guy say to the salesman that he bought a 2 stage 30 inch at $1200 in August when we had a sales tax free day (save 6.25% once a year always in August). He noticed that since he bought the 2 stage they now had a 3 stage sitting next to it for only $100 more. Sadly for him) the salesman said that it was a much better machine and referred to it as a "MONSTER" compared to everything on the floor. Sadly for him again the salesman said that if he returned what he had and then purchased the 3 stage that he would have to additionally pay the 6.25% sales tax as that was the state law.
> 
> So if you can believe the salesman that 3 stage will out power the 2 stage in a big way. Question is can we believe the salesman.


Question is: can you *ever* believe a salesman when he is trying to sell you something?
obviously..no. 

Scot


----------



## smith derf

Zap said:


> Are 3-stage snow blowers really twice as fast as 2-stage for comparable sized machines? Home Depot's snow blower expert says 3-stage Cub Cadet 28 inch machine is much faster than 2-stage Ariens 30" even though Ariens costs more.


After reading a few replies I thought I'd chime in. The real advantage of the up front impeller or the third stage is you no longer have to push with all your might to cut into deep hard snow. The nose impeller advances through this type of snow much easier than the standard augers will.


----------



## Oneacer

Really? ...... hmmmmm.


----------



## 1132le

[email protected] 3 stages


----------



## aa335

smith derf said:


> After reading a few replies I thought I'd chime in. The real advantage of the up front impeller or the third stage is you no longer have to push with all your might to cut into deep hard snow. The nose impeller advances through this type of snow much easier than the standard augers will.


In theory, this may work perfectly.

They just don't build them robust enough to actually have a marketing campaign against the big dogs like H, A, and T. They busted their budget on 3X stickers. They have to recoup revenue by selling more shear pins.


----------



## RC20

_After reading a few replies I thought I'd chime in. The real advantage of the up front impeller or the third stage is you no longer have to push with all your might to cut into deep hard snow. The nose impeller advances through this type of snow much easier than the standard augers will. _

Tell that to my Honda HSS724 and look at the pictures and tell me how it does not work!


----------



## aa335

1132le said:


> [email protected] 3 stages


My eyes deceive me. For a moment, I thought you wrote "3 stooges"


----------



## bisonp

smith derf said:


> After reading a few replies I thought I'd chime in. The real advantage of the up front impeller or the third stage is you no longer have to push with all your might to cut into deep hard snow. The nose impeller advances through this type of snow much easier than the standard augers will.


The real advantage is marketing to people who have never used a good quality machine.


----------



## ChrisJ

bisonp said:


> The real advantage is marketing to people who have never used a good quality machine.



A fool and his money are soon parted.


----------



## JJG723

When I walked into Home Depot and saw a three-stage for the first time years ago this was my reaction.


----------



## TooTall999

Well 3 stages must work, don't you see all the major manufacturers jumping on board to build one?


----------



## ChrisJ

3 Stage, Fuel treatments, oil additives,
Same thing in my book.

That'll get someone fired up.


----------

