# 5hp Tecumseh HSSK50 engine that lacks oomph



## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

Hello, 

I am Doug from Colorado. I have a Yard Machine snow blower with a 5hp Tecumseh HSSK50 engine that lacks oomph. 

A number of years back I had a guy try to get a little more power out of it because it lacked it in any real depth of snow or wet snow. He advanced the timing and removed the governor I believe. Again, it has been several years. 

Forward to today and it still lacks power if you ask me. I would rather not buy a new, more powerful snow blower as mine is paid for and works. Just not as well as I would like. I have thought about more performance upgrades, but it appears that there is not a lot of aftermarket support for this engine. 

I may consider some of my own mods and may add some parts if it seems that it will be worth it. 

I stumbled across this site and thought I would look around and see what others are dealing with.

Thanks,

Doug


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

hello dug, welcome to *SBF!!* I would set the gov to factory spec, no need in blowing up the motor. I would add an impeller kit, probably the best bang for the buck mod you can do. has the carb been cleaned and properly set, how about the belts. does your motor have points and condensers and what have they been checked


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## knu2xs (Jan 6, 2015)

Hello Doug & welcome to _The Site_!!


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

All of the m/x and tune up stuff was done before Winter started and belts were changed also. 

I saw the impeller mod and plan to do that as well.


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## Green (Feb 10, 2016)

Hi Doug,

I ran my 80s vintage yardman with a 5hp tecumseh and it seemed to do ok here in MA. Even in some big storms(24 inches plus of dry snow, not so much in wet snow ). I finally did swap the motor out for a Harbor freight predator 212cc. 
It has more power with the larger engine I think it works out to 6.5 to7 HP ?.It also starts easier and is less temperamental than the 30 year old tecumseh.

Short of an engine upgrade I would recommend an impeller kit . I have seen that make a great improvement on some 5 hp machines especially in wet snow . I am going to add one myself for next year. It is a set of rubber plates that mount on the impeller. you can buy pre made kits or make them yourself .


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

+1 to impellar kit - if your at a higher elevation I would also look at modifying/drilling out the jet to a larger size. I think those 2 things will gain you much. 





EDIT --- OOOPS --- need to go smaller! duh....


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to the forum ColoradoDoug


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## Elt31987 (Sep 6, 2015)

Welcome!


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

Welcome Douglas !!!


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

Thanks for the warm welcome


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

bad69cat said:


> +1 to impellar kit - if your at a higher elevation I would also look at modifying/drilling out the jet to a larger size. I think those 2 things will gain you much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0sURkmrR8A


this confuses me ( im easily confused !) always thought that if you were at a high elevation you would need to decrease jet size due to thinner air? or for example, if you brought a snowmobile from high elevation to sea level you would have to increase jet size to compensate for denser air ?


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

I agree, the air is thinner here and we usually lean out the mixture more than at sea level. BUT, if I add some mods and increase performance, I MAY need to increase the jet size. I will have to read the spark plug and test.

I have some work to do this weekend.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

if i were you and just wanted more power....as mentioned, the $99 chonda will really surprise you !, they are already jetted on the lean side. ( but only if your tech is single shaft of course). an engine upgrade, an impeller kit , and maybe upsize the drive pulley a bit and you would have a "wow" moment the first time you used it. jmo


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

"chonda" as is a clone Honda or Predator 212cc? I know the Predator comes from Harbor Freight, where would I find the clone, or is that the Predator?


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

If you are already lacking power the impeller kit although they are great will make it worse. They put more of a load on the motor by taking up the gap and making the machine throw more snow and in the case of slush, heavier snow. 

Might be time for a different Tecumseh or just do a rebuilt. Parts are cheap and to swap the piston and rings ( a cheap hone are easy to use to prep the cylinder) are easy with basic tools. Or a whole repower. The clone motors are good or a new Briggs snow engine are cheap enough if you don't want to do the clone motors. 

One example. 

12D312-0507

I have bought motors from here before. A pleasure to deal with. You give them the model and spec and they check bolt pattern crank size and height Etc. Very good experience with them.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

predators (USA) , powerfist (CAN) are basically honda knockoffs made in china ...chondas. jmo, but a 212 cc chonda/predator will probably make at least 3 more hp than your "5 hp" tech. ( the hemi version seems to be coveted )


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

see if the engine is lacking compression.

leaky head gasket & lack of valve clearance are the 2 most common culprits of compression loss on these engines...and both simple to resolve if you're reasonably handy.


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## Blackfin (Jan 25, 2016)

bad69cat said:


> +1 to impellar kit - if your at a higher elevation I would also look at modifying/drilling out the jet to a larger size. I think those 2 things will gain you much.


Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the engine will run richer with the same jets at higher altitude. Opening the jet further will result in the engine running even worse.

OP, the generally accepted practice for lethargic small-frame Tecs is a Predator upgrade. There's just so little that can be done with a 195cc flathead. Their compression ratio is low, their valves are small and they're, well, _flatheads_ lacking cubes and any sort of meaningful aftermarket support.

It would be fun to disassemble it enough to do some light port work (so head, valve spring access panel, springs and valves, intake and muffler) with a Dremel but I think it'll not result in enough of a gain to be noticeable, especially at altitude. A Predator is like $100 from HF and would give you the perfect amount of power for that frame size.

Out of curiosity, is the engine burning any oil? What does the plug look like? Do you sense it may be down on compression? I'm wondering if the engine feels weak because it's worn internally in which case a re-power is the smart path.


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

I plan to look things over this weekend when I have more time. I don't think it is burning oil as the level is fine and I see no smoke. I will check valves and carb. Thanks for the links on compression and valves.

The weather is warm now, but I know we will see more snow (usually wet in the Sring). So I will work on maintenance items on this engine until we are out of season. Then I may look to swap the engine. I just need to decide whether it's a Briggs or Predator. I don't remember exactly when I bought the snow blower, but I am guessing it's 10+ years old. To be honest, i can't leave well enough alone and will probably add more performance to which ever engine I choose. Maybe not right away though.

I am glad I ran across this site, as there is more helpful info than the karting sites.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Welcome! 

It sounds like an interesting project to try and improve the engine's performance. But I think I'd probably just go with the Predator 6.5hp, if it was me. 

What do you mean by the guy removed the governor? Removing the governor on an engine without a throttle pedal (for quick throttle adjustments), and with varying loads, seems like an odd idea. 

If you wanted to look into your current engine's compression, checking the valve clearance is pretty straightforward. The video above should help. Checking the head gasket would also be a good idea, and isn't difficult for an L-head (flathead) engine. 

You could also do a crude test for worn piston rings. If you have a compression tester, check the compression with the engine in its normal state. Then pour a little oil (maybe a teaspoon or so?) in through the spark plug hole, and repeat the compression test. If the compression reading climbs significantly, then maybe you're getting blowby past the rings. 

But I still think a Predator would likely give more bang for your buck, and also for the time you'd spend trying to squeeze a little more power out of the 5hp.


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

nwcove said:


> predators (USA) , powerfist (CAN) are basically honda knockoffs made in china ...chondas. jmo, but a 212 cc chonda/predator will probably make at least 3 more hp than your "5 hp" tech. ( the hemi version seems to be coveted )


Does HF offer both the hemi and non-hemi version? Or did one replace the other? In other words, how can I get a hemi version?


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

ColoradoDoug said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am Doug from Colorado. I have a Yard Machine snow blower with a 5hp Tecumseh HSSK50 engine that lacks oomph.
> 
> ...


Hi Doug, and welcome to the forum. 

Removing the governor is a bad idea, as that has little to do with adding power, it is there to control the throttle and try and maintain a constant RPM, within the power limits of the engine. 

If your governor is disconnected, I would imagine that your RPMs are all over the place when you go from no load to taking a bite out of some dense snow. Do you notice large decreases in the engine speed as you move into snow, or does it try and hold steady, and you can hear it start to work harder.

I would understand if he adjusted the governor to increase the top governed speed a little bit, but there's a limit to how fast the engine should spin. Too fast, and it's going to break. If this was done several years ago, and it's still running, I think he might have just adjusted the governor so the engine speed to where it is supposed to be because it may have been running too slow to start with.

I have read the thread so far, and I have a couple of questions.

What is your *typical *type of snow, if there is such a thing. Big dumps, small accumulations, heavy and wet, or light and dry, and do you have problems with all kinds of snow or just the big wet ones.

How does the machine work in reasonably light snow conditions, as in dry, or slightly damp snow, about 4-6 inches. Does it chew it up and toss it a good distance, or does it bog down and not throw very far? 

If the engine maintains speed, does it just not throw far enough?
How does it do in deeper, more difficult snow, same questions on engine speed and throwing distance. 

I'm asking so we can get a better sense of what the exact problem might be. Is it something that can be tweaked with some modifications, or perhaps, if you are always getting the deep heavy stuff, is the engine just not up to the task.


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

I was working on a number of things on the snow blower yesterday and a little more today. First, apparently Somme HSSK50 Tecumseh engines have two shafts and some have one? Mine has two. So if I went the route of swapping the engine, doesn't that rule out the Predator? 

I need to finish a couple things today and start it up, but I have no snow to test it. I still think it will lack the power I need or want.


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## Blackfin (Jan 25, 2016)

ColoradoDoug said:


> I was working on a number of things on the snow blower yesterday and a little more today. First, apparently Somme HSSK50 Tecumseh engines have two shafts and some have one? Mine has two. So if I went the route of swapping the engine, doesn't that rule out the Predator?
> 
> I need to finish a couple things today and start it up, but I have no snow to test it. I still think it will lack the power I need or want.


That's unfortunate and complicates things but doesn't necessarily rule out the use of a single-shaft engine like the Predator. 

The Tec's second shaft is a camshaft extension and so it spins at 1/2 crankshaft speed, in the opposite direction and drives the traction transmission. You _could_ adapt a Pred with a pulley but you'd basically reverse your transmission direction. So if you have 4 forward speeds and 2 reverse speeds now with such a swap you'd have 4 reverse and 2 forward speeds. If you can do some fab work you might be able to change things around to restore normal function.

One example of someone who did this:


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

I thought I would post a little update.

I pulled the carb and cleaned it. It was a little dirty, but not bad. 

I also pulled the head. As you can see in the pictures, there is some carbon buildup. I didn't think the cylinder walls looked bad. I have not check the valves yet. The spark plug had the dark soot, but not wet at all. 

I have been going through everything and doing a little maintenance. I need to get a few parts, check valves, clean the head and piston, charge plug and fill oil.


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

Blackfin said:


> That's unfortunate and complicates things but doesn't necessarily rule out the use of a single-shaft engine like the Predator.
> 
> 
> > When Winter is over and I have a little more time to tear into things, I will have to consider this option. Still not sure exactly what I want to do. I want to tune this engine the best I can and see how it performs in the next snow. That will tell me if it's worth keeping or time to upgrade. If it's an upgrade, it's just deciding what avenue to take.


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

*


skutflut said:



Removing the governor is a bad idea, as that has little to do with adding power, it is there to control the throttle and try and maintain a constant RPM, within the power limits of the engine.

Click to expand...

*The governor is actually there, but the engine revs pretty high. The governor rod was slightly misaligned, limiting travel a little. I also notice after removing the carb, muffler and head that the intake has been ported. I am also pretty sure the timing has been advanced.

*



If your governor is disconnected, I would imagine that your RPMs are all over the place when you go from no load to taking a bite out of some dense snow. Do you notice large decreases in the engine speed as you move into snow, or does it try and hold steady, and you can hear it start to work harder.

Click to expand...

*
I do notice the the engine rpm drop when I have a good load. It doesn't try to maintain as much.

*



I would understand if he adjusted the governor to increase the top governed speed a little bit, but there's a limit to how fast the engine should spin. Too fast, and it's going to break. If this was done several years ago, and it's still running, I think he might have just adjusted the governor so the engine speed to where it is supposed to be because it may have been running too slow to start with.

I have read the thread so far, and I have a couple of questions.

What is your typical type of snow, if there is such a thing. Big dumps, small accumulations, heavy and wet, or light and dry, and do you have problems with all kinds of snow or just the big wet ones.

Click to expand...

*We don't have a typical snow. It could be dry, wet or in between. I usually don't get it out unless it's at least 3-4" or more. Spring time snow is usually wet and larger accumulation as well. The problem is with all snow, but more so with wet. If I hit anything of about 6" or more, I can't go at a continuous pace in first gear unless it is light and powdery. 

*



How does the machine work in reasonably light snow conditions, as in dry, or slightly damp snow, about 4-6 inches. Does it chew it up and toss it a good distance, or does it bog down and not throw very far? 

If the engine maintains speed, does it just not throw far enough?
How does it do in deeper, more difficult snow, same questions on engine speed and throwing distance.

Click to expand...

*The engine revs high, and when I hit the snow, the rpm drop accordingly. Not to the point of dying, but it drops. It will throw snow pretty far as long as the rpms are up. If I get into deep snow, I need to progress slowly or it will bog down and wet snow is terrible. It will bog it down quickly. 



> I'm asking so we can get a better sense of what the exact problem might be. Is it something that can be tweaked with some modifications, or perhaps, if you are always getting the deep heavy stuff, is the engine just not up to the task.



Hopefully that answered your questions.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

the dual shaft does make the swap to a chonda a bigger project , but not a game ender. you asked about the hemi version predator, and all i can say is what ive read here on sbf. hf sells both versions of the chonda, but its not advertised , its just a slightly different part number for the hemi, and the hemi has a cast aluminum valve cover as compared to a stamped steel one for the non hemi.


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## Blackfin (Jan 25, 2016)

The engine _may_ be consuming a little oil based on the apparent make-up of some of the carbon crud on the head and piston crown. You might want to cycle the crank a few turns and when each valve is at its maximum opening check the side-to-side play (guide wear.) You should also check the backs of the valves and the ports (esp the intake side) for build up. Exhaust valves generally run hot enough to burn the crud off but the intake, cooled by the incoming charge each cycle, can see crud buildup if the intake guide is leaking and this crud ends up restricting flow.

Check also for scoring on the cylinder wall and for any ridge at the top of the bore that would indicate wear.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

I had the same engine you are dealing with now and the exhaust valves do tend to recede. My guess is the valve clearance will be under spec. As Blackfin described check for side to side play too. This would indicate worn valve guides. If they are badly worn, you are pretty much out of luck. Over sized valves are no longer available. At that point it is not worth investing more in the engine.

If you run at night, have you ever seen the muffler get red? If so this is a sign of the exhaust valve not seating. You can remove the valve and grind a bit off of the end to bring it in to spec clearance. It is a bit of Trial and error so go slow. Again, if the valve guides are worn this will only buy you so much and you will still have a seating issue to some degree.

I ended up doing a Predator swap. You can only get so much out of that 5 hp engine. It was a lot of work but I did the fab work and have 5 forward and 2 reverse speeds. Overall It was a good upgrade for me. It is not for everyone.
Good Luck.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I don't know how the mounting patterns and shaft heights compare. But could you swap on an 8hp Tecumseh 2-shaft engine? There are tons of the 8hp flathead Tecumsehs, and I had an MTD that used the 2-shaft style. 

If one could fit without a big problem, you'd get more power, and still have the "proper" second output for the transmission. If you needed to go to longer belts due to a taller crankshaft location, that may not be the end of the world. An older 2-shaft machine with a blown auger gearbox might sell for cheap. 

And on the note of valves, one valve (might have been exhaust) on my flathead Tecumseh did also need to have its length ground down a bit. Fortunately, *checking* the valve clearances is easy. Changing it is harder, of course.


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

Toro, you had the two shaft engine? Any chance you have a picture of your Predator's pulley arrangement? I would like to see how others have dealt with the same issue and then figure the best way to go about fabricating something.

Thanks


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> I don't know how the mounting patterns and shaft heights compare. But could you swap on an 8hp Tecumseh 2-shaft engine? There are tons of the 8hp flathead Tecumsehs, and I had an MTD that used the 2-shaft style.
> 
> If one could fit without a big problem, you'd get more power, and still have the "proper" second output for the transmission. If you needed to go to longer belts due to a taller crankshaft location, that may not be the end of the world. An older 2-shaft machine with a blown auger gearbox might sell for cheap.
> 
> And on the note of valves, one valve (might have been exhaust) on my flathead Tecumseh did also need to have its length ground down a bit. Fortunately, *checking* the valve clearances is easy. Changing it is harder, of course.


I have considered a swap like this as well. I just need to check the size and mounting to see if I can make it work.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

ColoradoDoug said:


> Toro, you had the two shaft engine? Any chance you have a picture of your Predator's pulley arrangement? I would like to see how others have dealt with the same issue and then figure the best way to go about fabricating something.
> 
> Thanks


Check out this post. 

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ine-5-22-harbor-freight-predator-212cc-3.html

Some pics in there around page 3. Lots of good info from a number of members.
I have made some mods since then and I am now considering increasing the tractor drive top pulley so I can gain a bit more wheel speed. The challenge for me was trying to stay within the confines of the original belt cover. I did not want to monkey around with fabbing a new one as others have done.

Also, other Predator considerations are making a snow cover /heater box, adjustable carb main jet, Oil drain hose, remote on/off switch and throttle control. The members here are very creative.

Cruz through the Repower forum where you can see what many others have done. The knowledge base is growing.

If you want specific pics let me know.


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

So the video of the swap was yours?


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

Carb question...


Where can I get the o ring for the float bowl? I don't really need the full rebuild kit.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Yes, all answered. 

Kind of sounds like the machine is running well, but as you say, it doesn't have the oomph to deal with the conditions you run into. 

I'm not 100% sure, but I can't think of an easy way to advance timing on single cylinder engines, unless he moved the coil somehow but I doubt that even advancing the timing would overcome the snow loads that give you the headaches.

As mentioned by others, repowering this machine would be a bit of a project since you have a dual shaft engine. I wonder if you would be better off selling this one as is, and investing in something with a bit more chutzpah (and a single shaft engine). It would be a lot cheaper than moving house. 

I guess it depends on whether you are up for the project or not. The biggest challenge is getting the drive system switched around, which will involve linkages and moving the friction wheel to the opposite side of the friction disk, and figuring out the optimum pulley size for the drive line.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

skutflut said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I can't think of an easy way to advance timing on single cylinder engines, unless he moved the coil somehow


I've heard that sometimes the flywheel key isn't really even needed, and that the friction between the crankshaft & flywheel is enough to keep the flywheel from slipping on the shaft. For added grip/friction, I've heard people mention putting lapping compound (a fine gritty paste) onto the crankshaft taper, before installing & torquing the flywheel. 

So if you could run without the flywheel key, you could advance the timing by removing the key, and rotating the flywheel slightly on the crankshaft, then tightening the flywheel nut. You could maybe even shave down the width of the flywheel key, and leave it installed, if you only needed a small amount of rotation. 



> I wonder if you would be better off selling this one as is, and investing in something with a bit more chutzpah (and a single shaft engine).


I've been leaning towards this solution myself. It's not my thread & question, of course, so I've been trying to think of options along with what Doug has asked. But with the time & cost involved in trying to slightly improve the current engine's performance, or make a single-shaft engine work, I have to wonder if that's worth it. And if you swapped the 5hp to an 8hp, for instance, do you maybe start blowing belts, which could be too small for the more powerful engine? 

I've bought 3 different 8hp-or-more 2-stage machines, an MTD and 2 Ariens. I've paid $125, $150, and $250, the expensive one was my current Ariens 1024 Pro, a nice 10hp 24" machine. My Ariens ST824 (8hp 24") was $150, and was a great blower. All have needed some work when I bought them. But redoing the engine isn't trivial either, so replacing some worn bushings, etc, might not be too bad. 

If you could find a good deal on a used machine at the end of the season, it's possible you could get a larger, beefier machine for a very reasonable price. Maybe not much more than a Predator engine, and you might also get something that's a step-up from your current machine in other areas, not just power. 

I know you said this isn't the path you're looking to pursue. I'm not suggesting new. But used, you might get a lot of value for your money.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

ColoradoDoug said:


> So the video of the swap was yours?


Not my video. It is a long thread with input from many members. Well worth the read for anyone considering what you are.

My pictures start around page 3.

This mod is not for everyone. It requires some skill, commitment and desire. If all you are looking to do is save some money then sell this machine and look for a larger used snow blower this summer. You will likely be ahead of the game money wise and time wise. 

If you think you would enjoy the challenge then have at it. Lots of support on here for you if you want it.

Good Luck.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

nwcove said:


> this confuses me ( im easily confused !) always thought that if you were at a high elevation you would need to decrease jet size due to thinner air? or for example, if you brought a snowmobile from high elevation to sea level you would have to increase jet size to compensate for denser air ?


You are correct - I was thinking back-A$$wards again!

But - likewise if it had tuneable carb you could play with the settings. If it's a fixed tune carb (not-adjustable) you might upgrade to one that is......


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## ColoradoDoug (Feb 18, 2016)

I will have to keep my eyes open for a deal on a bigger snow blower. I have checked a few times and I saw one at an auction, but they have all held there value or are the same 5hp. I will keep looking though. 

I also enjoy playing around with them, actually most anything mechanical. That might be why I decided to tear into some right now. Just not so involved that I can't get it running by the next snow storm. 

I will admit that I usually can't leave things alone.


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