# Re-jetting



## northeast

I have a new 1332 just traded in a brand new 9-28 (it was way underpowered, trading in a brand new machine cost me $800 bucks) I still felt the 1332 was underpowered so I increased the primary jet by .002 and it woke the machine up. From what I have read California emissions has forced Honda to run the engine on the lean side (engine is lazy under load). 

I suspect some of the clogging issues are a result of the engines running so lean.


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## jtclays

I hav


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## orangputeh

interesting. where do you get the jets for this?


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## northeast

I purchased the drill bits (2 bucks a piece) and drilled it myself. It is easy you take out the jet and hand twist the drill bit. There is no need to use power tools your fingers will work fine. Make sure you clean out any brass shavings before reinstalling. I will post the drill bit sizes later today. 



The engine had no audible change in the exhaust note when underload now with just a .2 change you can hear a change. I think it can use more and will play with it the next storm. It takes 5 minuets to change it. 

I have 22 customers and the machine has to move snow. I also own a 2015 ariens hydro 28 and that machine made the Honda look silly last storm. I run them side by side and the ariens destroyed the Honda I had to figure it out and hope this does it.


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## jrom

jtclays said:


> ...Personally, I'd order a replacement jet and do the .6mm mod on it and test, knowing you have a good (.2mm mod) one in your pocket. You can't go back if it starts to pig out, and then you're stuck. I guess if it were me at the point you are, I'd watch the plug for bit. See if you get some darkening, or just pay attention to smells and sound as you get more snow to test.


Good idea jt.

orangputeh, you can get an OEM stock jet at the usual suspects like boats.net https://tinyurl.com/ya5vcsls ($3.57), PartsPak.com https://tinyurl.com/y72th6se ($4.63), hondapartsnation.com https://tinyurl.com/yb3tdcx3 ($4.43), jackssmallengines.com ($5.27).

I found this supplier for aftermarket jets that has a chart that may be accurate (would jtclays and northeast verify this?) Replacements jets for about $2.95:

https://tinyurl.com/y9xnhvvo

Main Carburetor Jet for Honda, Clone, or Predator Engines - Select Your Size | RLV50** | RLV RLV5008 | BMI Karts and Motorocycle Parts

Carburetor main jet used on the Honda GX160, GX200, Predator 212cc, GX340, GX390, Predator 420cc, and many other clone 6.5 HP 196cc engines. 

FYI: Stock jets on GX200s are .028. 
FYI: Stock jets on GX390s are .036-.038. 
Use a larger opening jet if you're running lean and a smaller one if you're running rich.

Options
SKU	Size	Number
RLV5010	.032	#81
RLV5011	.034	#86
RLV5008	.035	#88
RLV5012	.036	#91
RLV5009	.037	#93
RLV5013	.038	#96
RLV5014	.039	#99
RLV5015	.040	#101
RLV5016	.041	#104
RLV5017	.042	#107
RLV5018	.043	#109
RLV5019	.044	#112
RLV5020	.045	#114
RLV5021	.046	#117


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## jrom

I appreciate input like this. Going from a GX240 to a GX390, while nice, I can tell there's more to the 390 than what I'm seeing.

I like the idea of hand reaming. Just go easy.



northeast said:


> I purchased the drill bits (2 bucks a piece) and drilled it myself. It is easy you take out the jet and hand twist the drill bit. There is no need to use power tools your fingers will work fine. Make sure you clean out any brass shavings before reinstalling. I will post the drill bit sizes later today.
> 
> The engine had no audible change in the exhaust note when underload now with just a .2 change you can hear a change. I think it can use more and will play with it the next storm. It takes 5 minuets to change it.
> 
> I have 22 customers and the machine has to move snow. I also own a 2015 ariens hydro 28 and that machine made the Honda look silly last storm. I run them side by side and the ariens destroyed the Honda I had to figure it out and hope this does it.


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## jrom

jrom said:


> orangputeh, you can get an OEM stock jet at the usual suspects like...


God, quoting myself.

I realize the parts I posted are GX390 snow engine jets...No. 102.


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## northeast

I spent quite a bit of time researching and talking with small engine builders (go kart racing guys) they assured me the engine should be re jetted. They all said you can go a lot larger with no problem. 

The engine just seemed soooooo lazy and running lean would definitely explain this.


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## northeast

This would explain why Honda is so tight lipped also. Emissions laws are strict and they probably know but can’t advise.


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## northeast

If this is problem then the solution is either fuel injection or a multi stage carburetor.


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## vmax29

You can go here:

https://affordablegokarts.com/search?page=2&q=Gx390

All kinds of gx390 stuff. Be the first kid on the block to burn the tracks off your Honda!


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## jtclays

orangputeh said:


> interesting. where do you get the jets for this?


orangp


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## jrom

:smile_big:


vmax29 said:


> You can go here:
> 
> https://affordablegokarts.com/search?page=2&q=Gx390
> 
> All kinds of gx390 stuff. Be the first kid on the block to burn the tracks off your Honda!


Thanks for that.

"This is a Honda carburetor tuned for high performance with a richer emulsion tube and 110 main jet. This is the carb we use for the bored/reworked version of the 390 carb. " 

Just havin' a little fun with good ol' Photoshop.

...Now get back to re-jettin' :smile_big:


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## vmax29

Honda engineers: 🙄

CARB EPA folks: 😳


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## db130

Don't forget about the adjustable carb jet that forum member Waterlooboy2hp sells from time to time:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HF-Predato...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The Predator main jet should interchange with all GX main jets...and the adjustable one's max input is equivalent to .052.


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## Boston_Rob

Has anyone re-jetted a GX270 on the HS928 series? Very interested before looking at a 390 swap.


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## northeast

I opened it up to .041 and it’s a completely different machine. It is exactly what it needs. I said it was lazy now it’s a beast, open it up you will not be disappointed. You will not even recognize it. You guys getting the picture here. Lol

I will run it this way for a bit but may go to .043 worse case scenario is I buy a new jet and go back to .041 but I have a feeling it wants it.


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## jrom

Very cool.

Would .041 be a No 59 bit?



northeast said:


> I opened it up to .041 and it’s a completely different machine. It is exactly what it needs. I said it was lazy now it’s a beast, open it up you will not be disappointed. You will not even recognize it. You guys getting the picture here. Lol
> 
> I will run it this way for a bit but may go to .043 worse case scenario is I buy a new jet and go back to .041 but I have a feeling it wants it.


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## orangputeh

northeast said:


> This would explain why Honda is so tight lipped also. Emissions laws are strict and they probably know but can’t advise.


this is a great eye opening topic. kinda explains a couple things.

that why i love this site. always learning something new. good for this ol brain.


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## northeast

Yes you need a #59 to go to 41


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## northeast

.041 sorry.


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## jrom

Thanks.



northeast said:


> Yes you need a #59 to go to .041


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## vmax29

Bet the throttle works through the whole range too when it’s jetted right.


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## northeast

vmax29 said:


> Bet the throttle works through the whole range too when it’s jetted right.


It does and it sounds so much better also. My experience says you should not run an engine lean, do the mod folks you will not be disappointed. My guess is the 9/28 will be much improved also. I might go buy a stock jet and post a side by side comparison.


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## tinter

Well, looks like a have a little Saturday project!


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## jrom

Curious, would you open the jet on a 26 year old GX240 that has about 1,200 hours on it? It runs great, doesn't use oil, been a great engine, but lacking in power. Don't want to over-tax a good tried-and true engine. it's my backup blower.



northeast said:


> It does and it sounds so much better also. My experience says you should not run an engine lean, do the mod folks you will not be disappointed. My guess is the 9/28 will be much improved also. I might go buy a stock jet and post a side by side comparison.


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## stromr

*Hmmmmmmmmm...............*



jrom said:


> Curious, would you open the jet on a 26 year old GX240 that has about 1,200 hours on it? It runs great, doesn't use oil, been a great engine, but lacking in power. Don't want to over-tax a good tried-and true engine. it's my backup blower.


A 26 year old engine with 1200 hours eh! Before I'd rejet I think I might take a leakdown test and a compression check.


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## jrom

Had to laugh...yeah, I hear ya. Should do that.



stromr said:


> A 26 year old engine with 1200 hours eh! Before I'd rejet I think I might take a leakdown test and a compression check.


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## northeast

jrom said:


> Curious, would you open the jet on a 26 year old GX240 that has about 1,200 hours on it? It runs great, doesn't use oil, been a great engine, but lacking in power. Don't want to over-tax a good tried-and true engine. it's my backup blower.


I don't think there is any need to re jet a 26 year old small engine. Honda at that time would have optimized the jetting for max horsepower, today they are jetting for cleanest emissions. What you have is probably all you are going to get without rebuilding, or at least a ring job and a little polishing.


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## JnC

northeast said:


> I don't think there is any need to re jet a 26 year old small engine. Honda at that time would have optimized the jetting for max horsepower, today they are jetting for cleanest emissions. What you have is probably all you are going to get without rebuilding, or at least a ring job and a little polishing.


Funny you say that as I have been using a 20+ year old 828 over the past few weeks for the couple of snowstorms that we have had and I swear the thing is an animal and at times felt more powerful than the 928s I have used from recent years.


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## jsup

northeast said:


> If this is problem then the solution is either fuel injection or a multi stage carburetor.


How would Fuel Injection solve the problem? Just wonderin' what you're thinking. Without re-programming the ECU, you can't change FI.


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## northeast

jsup said:


> How would Fuel Injection solve the problem? Just wonderin' what you're thinking. Without re-programming the ECU, you can't change FI.



Ok hang with me here. Gasoline is flammable when it is between 1.4 and 7.6 percent of an atmosphere. Anything below 1.4 it's too lean and will not burn. Anything above and it's too rich and will not burn. The leaner the combustion the hotter the combustion. So what Honda is doing is jetting the carb to run as lean as possible (without causing damage) therefore increasing cumbustion temps and getting a more complete burn but this lean burn causes the lazy engines we have in these blowers. The problem with a single stage carburetor is it's fixed due to just one primary jet. A two stage carburetor will have a primary jet and a secondary jet the secondary jet only opens when the engine calls for it via vacuum pressure. 

Fuel injection can provide just enough fuel under any load to maximize combustion (not to lean not to rich) and still provide a clean but powerful engine.


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## JayzAuto1

Hey Guys, Great Thread here. Try these links. I use them frequently. Awesome knowledge, and parts. Jetting Kits available, cross reference charts....... You get the idea. Grab a beverage and dig in. Great stuff by modified guys without re-inventing the wheel.

GLuck, Jay

https://www.ombwarehouse.com/Racing-Jet-Kit.html

https://affordablegokarts.com/pages/how-to-drill-the-main-jets


https://affordablegokarts.com/collections/fuel-systems

https://www.ombwarehouse.com/performance-parts/honda-clone-gx160-gx200/carbs-and-parts/


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## jrom

I wonder if the hours have something to say. Do you know how many hours on yours? In certain conditions, like drier, lighter snow, my 828 is great on power. I notice a power struggle on the heavy wet, deep stuff. I just back off on speed.

Interesting, your take between the 240 and 270.



JnC said:


> Funny you say that as I have been using a 20+ year old 828 over the past few weeks for the couple of snowstorms that we have had and I swear the thing is an animal and at times felt more powerful than the 928s I have used from recent years.


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## drmerdp

Good info, I’m going to check this out.

I know these engines were jetted lean, surprised the difference was so drastic. 

I’ve enlarged the pilot jets on my eu generators because of a little stumble at idle that drove me nuts.


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## Northeast603

So, what's recommended for a safe upgrade?

I'm located in the Northeast about 300' of elevation. I like many have been underwhelmed with my new HSS1332ATD. I know next to nothing about modding an engine and I'm afraid I'll just pick "this one goes to eleven" which will cause me heartache down the road. I just want to get it working the way it should. I'm not looking to drag race.

What size is on the current stock engine?


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## paulm12

"this one goes to eleven" -- brought a chuckle


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## northeast

Northeast603 said:


> So, what's recommended for a safe upgrade?
> 
> I'm located in the Northeast about 300' of elevation. I like many have been underwhelmed with my new HSS1332ATD. I know next to nothing about modding an engine and I'm afraid I'll just pick "this one goes to eleven" which will cause me heartache down the road. I just want to get it working the way it should. I'm not looking to drag race.
> 
> What size is on the current stock engine?


I went to .042 and was told I could go as large as .55 or so. At .042 it is much more motivated. I will run it today wide open for ten minutes and look at the plug. I bet it could go even more but will report back. The motor is huge it's just chocked down.


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## PaulD

Does anyone have any jet recommendations for an HSS724? Would the same .042 work?


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## drmerdp

Since we are looking to enrich the mixture, you can’t do any damage. Worst thing that could happen is a fouled plug and rough running. 

Further leaning the mixture would risk pre ignition and damaging high cylinder temps.

When tuning carb jetting, it’s all about small changes. Feel how the engine runs and check the plug to see how things are burning. 

I think the laziest part of a small engine is the governor. It’s based on spring pressures that dont dynamically adjust to load using rpm data.

The EU generators have a standard carburetor but a computer controlled throttle plate. It utilizes a circuit to detect engine speed, monitors load, and adjust the throttle as needed.

The basic carburetors on small engines do exactly what they need to do and do it well. Provide sufficient fueling under minimal conditions. 

Car carburetors have to provide proper fueling under a variety of loads ranging from decelerating, cruise, and a variety of acceleration loads that change rapidly. 

I imagine that Honda will eventually incorporate fuel injection into their small engines. Currently their iGX engines use carbs with electronic governors as I described. 


Kudos to Northeast for experimenting and bringing up this discussion.


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## Northeast603

northeast said:


> I went to .042 and was told I could go as large as .55 or so. At .042 it is much more motivated. I will run it today wide open for ten minutes and look at the plug. I bet it could go even more but will report back. The motor is huge it's just chocked down.


Did you have to adjust idle/top end at all?


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## drmerdp

PaulD said:


> Does anyone have any jet recommendations for an HSS724? Would the same .042 work?


 I think the stock gx200 jet is around .028 , a .042 would be huge. 

Since we aren’t opening up the exhausts (yet  )

A .031 - .032 would probably be plenty.


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## northeast

PaulD said:


> Does anyone have any jet recommendations for an HSS724? Would the same .042 work?


I would take the jet out and measure it, then make small adjustments at a time. The drill bits are very inexpensive order 4 or 5 of them and an extra jet. Everything should cost about 20 bucks. Drill it out one size at a time keeping track as you go, if you go to far you can then drill out the new jet to exactly where you want to be.


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## northeast

Northeast603 said:


> Did you have to adjust idle/top end at all?


No.


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## northeast

drmerdp said:


> Since we are looking to enrich the mixture, you can’t do any damage. Worst thing that could happen is a fouled plug and rough running.
> 
> Further leaning the mixture would risk pre ignition and damaging high cylinder temps.
> 
> When tuning carb jetting, it’s all about small changes. Feel how the engine runs and check the plug to see how things are burning.
> 
> I think the laziest part of a small engine is the governor. It’s based on spring pressures that dont dynamically adjust to load using rpm data.
> 
> The EU generators have a standard carburetor but a computer controlled throttle plate. It utilizes a circuit to detect engine speed, monitors load, and adjust the throttle as needed.
> 
> The basic carburetors on small engines do exactly what they need to do and do it well. Provide sufficient fueling under minimal conditions.
> 
> Car carburetors have to provide proper fueling under a variety of loads ranging from decelerating, cruise, and a variety of acceleration loads that change rapidly.
> 
> I imagine that Honda will eventually incorporate fuel injection into their small engines. Currently their iGX engines use carbs with electronic governors as I described.
> 
> 
> Kudos to Northeast for experimenting and bringing up this discussion.


Thanks drmerdp


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## jrom

Northeast603 said:


> ...What size is on the current stock engine?


For the stock GX390 snow engine it's #95 | JET, MAIN (#95) 99101-ZH8-0950

Would that be:

.9398mm | .037" | #63 bit?


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## Boston_Rob

OP I believe has an HSS version. The below reference is for HS models and not sure if the series are the same. Honda (boats) lists a stock jet and then high altitude (leaner jets) for ~ >5,000 ft and >10,000 Ft.

http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf


HS724 - (GX200) Part # 23. Regular is #75 with a 72 and 70 listed for high altitude alternates.
All Years HS724 TA Honda Snowblower CARBURETOR Diagram and Parts

HS928 - (GX270) Part #26. Regular is #92 with a 90 and 88 for high alt.
All Years HS928 TA Honda Snowblower CARBURETOR Diagram and Parts

HS1132 - (GX340) part#34 Regular is #98 with #95 and #92 for high alt.
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Snow Blower/0/HS1132 TA/CARBURETOR/parts.html

hs1332 -(GX390) part #34 Regular is #102 with a 100 and 95 for high alt.
All Years HS1332 TA Honda Snowblower CARBURETOR Diagram and Parts


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## northeast

This is all the snow I could gather up. Notice the exhaust note is much deeper and does not sound lazy. I am going at about half speed. Previously it would bog way down and dribble out the snow not now.


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## stromr

northeast said:


> This is all the snow I could gather up. Notice the exhaust note is much deeper and does not sound lazy. I am going at about half speed. Previously it would bog way down and dribble out the snow not now.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5GADh3k55o&feature=youtu.be


You definitely seem to be on the right track. After years of jetting for power with racing motorcycles, both 2 and 4 cycle, I religiously relied on "reading" the sparkplug. If you put in a brand new plug and run the engine under load and your chosen RPM, wide open I'd guess for good lubrication, then post a closeup picture of the sparkplug, I'd love to see it. As much of the weather conditions you can provide are relevant too. You're looking for that sweet spot between torque and horsepower where the engine responds cleanly to an increase in load without hesitation or a temporary rich condition.


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## Northeast603

jrom said:


> For the stock GX390 snow engine it's #95 | JET, MAIN (#95) 99101-ZH8-0950
> 
> Would that be:
> 
> .9398mm | .037" | #63 bit?


I see 3 choices, 102 being the main then 100, and finally 95 as the two options depending on altitude.


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## jrom

I see that now. Somehow missed it on my first glance. Thanks.

And thank you for the video post.



Northeast603 said:


> I see 3 choices, 102 being the main then 100, and finally 95 as the two options depending on altitude.


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## gormleyflyer2002

So.........did the OP's machine come with high altitude main jet ?? or am i confused again ?? 

If so.....how many other flat landers have lean MJ's


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## northeast

As far as I know it was jetted properly. I am going to buy a stock jet and do a side by side comparison.


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## db130

I found some Honda part numbers if you guys have local Honda dealers to buy from. The list price is between $5-7 each.

GX340 snow engine jets

34JET, MAIN (#92)
99101-ZH7-0920 

34JET, MAIN (#95)
99101-ZH7-0950 

34JET, MAIN (#95)
99101-ZF5-0950

34JET, MAIN (#98)
99101-ZH7-0980 

34JET, MAIN (#98)
99101-ZH8-0980

34JET, MAIN (#98)
99101-ZF5-0980

GX390 snow engine jets

40JET, MAIN (#98)
99101-ZH8-0980

40JET, MAIN (#102)
99101-ZH8-1020

40JET, MAIN (#105)
99101-ZH8-1050


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## northeast

So my blower had a #98 main jet.


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## JnC

I see mostly mention of the GX160/200 and GX340/390, what about the GX240/270? 

I have a 6 year old 928 at work that I'd love to throw in a upgraded jet, what number should I go with?


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## db130

JnC said:


> I see mostly mention of the GX160/200 and GX340/390, what about the GX240/270?
> 
> I have a 6 year old 928 at work that I'd love to throw in a upgraded jet, what number should I go with?


Pull up the exact model number of the 928 on websites like boats.net (which was one of the vendors that jrom mentioned on post #5).

Pull up the parts diagram of the carburetor, it will tell you what the stock jet size is. For example, using the model number HS928 TAS, the part numbers for the jets are:

PRI; JET, MAIN (#90) (Honda Code 5947155).
(Optional).
99101-ZH8-0900

JET, MAIN (#92) (Honda Code 5947163).
99101-ZH8-0920

JET, MAIN (#88) (Honda Code 5945555).
(Optional).
99101-ZH8-0880

My guess is that most 928s came with the #92 jet. If you wanted to stick with Honda jets, you could go up to #95 or #98 or #102.


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## northeast

I just ordered two more jets. When they come in I will post a side by side comparison. Same snow, both full throttle. Then I will take the jet I have and go a bit bigger. It’s running good now and can’t mess with it with a storm coming.


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## xenon55

Notice any difference with cold engine starting? I see you have an ADT. I plan on getting a HSS1332AT (non electic start) within the month and it'll be kept in a detached unheated garage. I plan on going richer on the main as you have done, but too much fuel when starting a cold engine could be a pain to start just as too little fuel would be. I'm in CT also.

Thanks,
Jay


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## PaulD

I'm no expert, but it seems strange that Honda wouldn't jet the cold weather versions of these engines differently than the regular versions.


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## stromr

PaulD said:


> I'm no expert, but it seems strange that Honda wouldn't jet the cold weather versions of these engines differently than the regular versions.


Cold weather or warm weather engines are all jetted according to EPA regs for exhaust emissions now.


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## PaulD

stromr said:


> Cold weather or warm weather engines are all jetted according to EPA regs for exhaust emissions now.


So does that mean the warm weather version is jetted to be similarly lean (i.e. an even smaller jet)?


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## stromr

PaulD said:


> So does that mean the warm weather version is jetted to be similarly lean (i.e. an even smaller jet)?


Yes


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## PaulD

stromr said:


> Yes


Thanks.

(shakes fist at California)


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## northeast

xenon55 said:


> Notice any difference with cold engine starting? I see you have an ADT. I plan on getting a HSS1332AT (non electic start) within the month and it'll be kept in a detached unheated garage. I plan on going richer on the main as you have done, but too much fuel when starting a cold engine could be a pain to start just as too little fuel would be. I'm in CT also.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jay


I would buy a few jets and play with them. Drill one out, one size, and start it. Tomorrow do it again going to the next size, go too far so it's hard to start. Then drill the new one out to within a couple thousand of that number. It takes 2 minutes to do the increase. Just take care not to cross thread anything. And then after running it hard full blast for ten minutes shut it down with as little idling before shut down as possible. Then pull the spark plug if it's black you are too rich drill the next one out a couple thousand less than that one. Repeat. Once it's light brown it's perfect.

You may find it's never hard too start, then just pull the plug and take a peak. 

Personally I think going to .043 or .044 will be perfect but I don't dare go there until I get a few replacement jets in hand. They should be here Thursday we will see if they get here with the storm coming. My machine is completely different then before I bored it out to .042. It would be fun to try starting around .046 if that's too rich drop down to .043.


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## 1132le

Iam going to be interested in doing this to the 20 ft lbs of torque 414cc lct after i get it squared away


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## gormleyflyer2002

be interesting to hear how Honda can explain why a flat lander has jetting for high elevation. Assuming the OP bought new from east coast dealer ??

bk


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## northeast

I bought it 20 miles from Boston.


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## northeast

14 inches predicted here. Look forward to running the Honda hard tomorrow night.


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## tonysak

I've always thought the Hondas are underpowered. I had a hs1332, and the hss1332 runs even leaner. I had a simplicity 32" with thr briggs 420 in it, that engine with a 14" impeller had all the power in the world. No hydro, no tracks though. Ive been wanting to rejet the Hss it is so lean but I don't have the experience. The not even 13" impeller would still be a bottle neck so I wouldn't increase the oriface too large as there is a point of diminishing return. The 390 should not be so easily bogged down though. I think its embarrasing for honda. They should just make a non compliant version for the rest of the US, or sell the Canadian version to us. 

Ive been eye balling the Ariens track units for a few years now. There new 28" rapid track with htdro, 14"impeller and 420 engine looks pretty slick.


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## tonysak

northeast said:


> 14 inches predicted here. Look forward to running the Honda hard tomorrow night.


How was it? Im just north of boston. We got 15"


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## northeast

Ok I put 6 hours on the machine last night. The difference is unbelievable the machine is alive it’s eager to work and work it did. I know it was light snow but the eod stuff is never light and it went right through it. 

I hope to have a stock jet in my hand by the end of today. I it does come in I will install it and post a couple more videos. One with it stock and one bored out to .042. It’s night and day.


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## florindi

northeast said:


> Ok I put 6 hours on the machine last night. The difference is unbelievable the machine is alive it’s eager to work and work it did. I know it was light snow but the eod stuff is never light and it went right through it.
> 
> I hope to have a stock jet in my hand by the end of today. I it does come in I will install it and post a couple more videos. One with it stock and one bored out to .042. It’s night and day.


I did a little checking yesterday in my free time during the blizzard. My Honda HSS1332ATD service manual states the stock jet is a #102 (1.02mm) = .0401" Northeast, did you say you started with .040" and made it .042"? I thought I read in an earlier post that you thought you had an #98 jet (.98mm) .0385"...


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## northeast

florindi said:


> I did a little checking yesterday in my free time during the blizzard. My Honda HSS1332ATD service manual states the stock jet is a #102 (1.02mm) = .0401" Northeast, did you say you started with .040" and made it .042"? I thought I read in an earlier post that you thought you had an #98 jet (.98mm) .0385"...


Ok I thought it was #98 I bought two bits .040 and .041 I brought the jet with me and the the next size down fit inside. Sorry for any confusion for where I started or ended up. 

It is currently jetted at .041 and I would like to go to .043 and try it, the small engine builder says I should be fine there. I just will not until I have a new jet in hand. I can't risk not having the machine running. I service around 23 driveways with it. This last storm I put seven hours on it and used over 3 gallons of gas. And I run a pro 28 ariens next to it. 

The first storm was only six inches and the ariens made the Honda look like a lazy, tired, worn out junk! I am no expert but I have been around enough small engines to know when something is just not right. I started making phone calls and learned the gx390 is the chevy 350 of small engines. What that means is for very little money you can hot rod the gx390, and if money is no object 50 plus horsepower at 12000 rpms could be yours. Now that would be a snowblower! But at the end of the day a little tuning has made me happy but I may want a bit more. If I fall in love with it I may have the head shaved for a bit more compression and change the cam and lifters for a few more ponies. I would not mind 15 or 16 hp at 4000 rpm. I know I will void the warranty but time is money the faster I work the more I make.


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

A while ago, I drilled out the pilot jet on my 624. Its pig rich when its above freezing, bangs and pops a bit at idle. When its below ~0ºF or so, its still a touch lean when its cold and requires a few seconds of running at full choke, followed by ~30 seconds of warmup or else it will stall when loaded. Still miles ahead of where it was, but unfortunately with carbs its rather difficult to get it perfect in all conditions.

Most of my neighbors snowblowers are clearly running lean, so its not like its just a Honda thing. Most every stock snowblower is barely running when its deep into double digit negatives.


----------



## legarem

In Honda European Site, I found carburator specs. The main jets are differing for externally carburator vented bowl and internally carburator vented bowl. My standard GX390 has a 115 main jet. so I figure it's an internally vented bowl. What's the difference between internally and externally vented bowls ?

In the annexed document, specs in column 3 are for GX340 and specs in column 5 are for GX390.


----------



## drmerdp

I worked on a HS1332 today. A circa 2013 carb compliance model which conveniently needed a carb cleaning amongst other repairs/improvements.

My #62 drill bit slipped right into the main jet. The #61 bit removed the slightest bit of material. 

According to this chart, https://affordablegokarts.com/pages/how-to-drill-the-main-jets, I can can extrapolate that this factory HS1332 appears to have a .038 jet. 

My #61 bit, is not listed on the chart, but id assume it falls in at about .039". It was around 9 degrees in jersey today, and this machine is running pretty lean at .039.

Im going to bump it up to .041 and send it home.


----------



## jsup

northeast said:


> Ok hang with me here. Gasoline is flammable when it is between 1.4 and 7.6 percent of an atmosphere. Anything below 1.4 it's too lean and will not burn. Anything above and it's too rich and will not burn. The leaner the combustion the hotter the combustion. So what Honda is doing is jetting the carb to run as lean as possible (without causing damage) therefore increasing cumbustion temps and getting a more complete burn but this lean burn causes the lazy engines we have in these blowers. The problem with a single stage carburetor is it's fixed due to just one primary jet. A two stage carburetor will have a primary jet and a secondary jet the secondary jet only opens when the engine calls for it via vacuum pressure.
> 
> Fuel injection can provide just enough fuel under any load to maximize combustion (not to lean not to rich) and still provide a clean but powerful engine.


That's accomplished by the O2 sensor reading the AFR. this reading allows the ECU to fluctuate fuel delivery based on a target AFR. On small engines, the fuel mapping in the ECU is stagnate, or open looped, and can't change regardless of load. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these small engines with fuel injection don't come with O2 sensors. After engine temp reaches about 180 degrees, or whatever it's programmed for, it goes into closed loop, at which point the sensors take over. 

So without changing the programming on the ECU fuel map, there's not much you can do, and it can't do it on the fly without a MAP or MAF sensor and O2 sensor.

That being said, I'm sure the engineers know what the correct AFR is supposed to be at a given RMP (just don't know load) and could do a fuel map that is "close". 

A complete burn is achieved when the AFR hits 14.7. "Too lean" , a higher AFR, depends on load. An AFR of 15-16 at idle isn't a big deal, whereas at WOT and under acceleration you will see AFR numbers around 12-13. It's said, max HP is reached at 12.3 or so. Something that can't possibly apply to a small engine, because you really shouldn't run 12.3 at 3600 RPM if not under load and acceleration.


----------



## jsup

Great thread. Are there jet choices for Briggs, or is this strictly a Honda deal?


----------



## Money_man

jsup said:


> Great thread. Are there jet choices for Briggs, or is this strictly a Honda deal?


I second this question.


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## SimplicityAlan

I’ve been playing with the jet and governor on my 212 
Predator clone. I’m seeing some gains in snow moved and performance. No bogging at EOD. They start at 0.028. I’m around 0.030 which I opened with a small drill bit. Going to buy the kit on eBay with the performance emulsion tube and .032 and .034 jets. There’s a little Tim Taylor in some of us. 
Thanks for the info and inspiration.


----------



## northeast

jsup said:


> That's accomplished by the O2 sensor reading the AFR. this reading allows the ECU to fluctuate fuel delivery based on a target AFR. On small engines, the fuel mapping in the ECU is stagnate, or open looped, and can't change regardless of load. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these small engines with fuel injection don't come with O2 sensors. After engine temp reaches about 180 degrees, or whatever it's programmed for, it goes into closed loop, at which point the sensors take over.
> 
> So without changing the programming on the ECU fuel map, there's not much you can do, and it can't do it on the fly without a MAP or MAF sensor and O2 sensor.
> 
> That being said, I'm sure the engineers know what the correct AFR is supposed to be at a given RMP (just don't know load) and could do a fuel map that is "close".
> 
> A complete burn is achieved when the AFR hits 14.7. "Too lean" , a higher AFR, depends on load. An AFR of 15-16 at idle isn't a big deal, whereas at WOT and under acceleration you will see AFR numbers around 12-13. It's said, max HP is reached at 12.3 or so. Something that can't possibly apply to a small engine, because you really shouldn't run 12.3 at 3600 RPM if not under load and acceleration.


I would say I run under load 70 percent of the time. It's difficult to get these things exact and I really don't see a need. I did see a need to open it up a little though and I think I will go to .043. These are very big small engines and really should thump.


----------



## northeast

jsup said:


> Great thread. Are there jet choices for Briggs, or is this strictly a Honda deal?


Buy a couple of jets from your dealer. Then buy a few drill bits and start experimenting. It does not take much to wake them up.


----------



## tonysak

Other than increasing the jet size, is there any other tuning ?

The artic air is leaving, im going to order the .042, .043, .044 and .045 for my gx390 as i don't have the bits. After this ill just need the impeller to spin faster.


----------



## northeast

To increase impeller speed you need to increase rpm’s or change the pulley. I personally don’t see a need to increase it though.


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## JnC

Wheres that video, chief?


----------



## BeerGhost

Is anybody increasing the idle jet size? Which carb circuit is the engine under the most under light to medium load?


----------



## northeast

We need heavier snow to show the difference. What we have is perfect honda marketing snow. Its going to rain this week I will make the video then.


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## Northeast603

I rejetted to .042. I notice a difference pushing into a snow bank but the stuff is so light it’s hard to tell. I agree we need some slop to really push it. 

Just looking at the stock jet it seems much smaller.


----------



## northeast

Just an update, last night I took out the primary jet on the new machine and it's definitely smaller than .040. I am hoping the jets I ordered come in today. If they have come in I am going to bring the main jet in the first machine to .043 and see how it responds. If it's a linear response this machine should be a monster at .043.


----------



## gormleyflyer2002

is the a number etched or punched into it ?? 

a week ago you were going to sell it and now you have two..........crazy  

wonder when/if Robert Honda will post.........some Honda water cooler chat after the Holidays haha



northeast said:


> Just an update, last night I took out the primary jet on the new machine and it's definitely smaller than .040. I am hoping the jets I ordered come in today. If they have come in I am going to bring the main jet in the first machine to .043 and see how it responds. If it's a linear response this machine should be a monster at .043.


----------



## northeast

There is a number on the jet, but it was useless to my dealer. Yes I can't believe the difference a couple thousands made. I am going to bump the rpm's up to 3900 also( its electronically governed at 4000) I think Wednesday will be a good day to make the next video it will be eye opening.


----------



## tonysak

northeast said:


> There is a number on the jet, but it was useless to my dealer. Yes I can't believe the difference a couple thousands made. I am going to bump the rpm's up to 3900 also( its electronically governed at 4000) I think Wednesday will be a good day to make the next video it will be eye opening.


 once it warms up a little im going to clear all the snow banks in my area. Will be a good test


----------



## BeerGhost

Try opening up the idle jet a size bigger. When you are using your blower look at the throttle plate i bet it mostly 1/4- 1/2 way open most of the time. So the idle circuit is still feeding at those positions. That is what those little holes in the side of the venturi are for. Main jet only comes into play around 1/3 to Wide open on the throttle plate.

Trying to mask a lean low circuit by fattening up the main will leave the engine pig rich at max throttle opening, as you bury the bucket in the EOD,engine grunts and coughs up black lugers.


----------



## northeast

BeerGhost said:


> Try opening up the idle jet a size bigger. When you are using your blower look at the throttle plate i bet it mostly 1/4- 1/2 way open most of the time. So the idle circuit is still feeding at those positions. That is what those little holes in the side of the venturi are for. Main jet only comes into play around 1/3 to Wide open on the throttle plate.
> 
> Trying to mask a lean low circuit by fattening up the main will leave the engine pig rich at max throttle opening, as you bury the bucket in the EOD,engine grunts and coughs up black lugers.


I have run the machine for 9 hours since I opened it up (12 hours on it). They are running like a warn out dog because the main jet is too small. Fatten up the main and you will blow eod crud and not have to creep through it like a 95 year granny with her walker. It will sound like it's supposed to sound too. It will sound motivated and hungry for more. No black smoke spewing from mine just running the way I remember small engines running.

Please watch the video I posted. I am asking that machine to move a lot a snow. It was working and I was pushing it as hard as it would go with out loosing rpm's. There is no smoke just a more motivated engine.


----------



## tonysak

Northeast is on .042 right? Has anyone tried .043? I don't want to start swapping these things out. I have 3 kids and can't remember anything I did an hour ago. I'd like to just put in the .044 I ordered and know it works. Why doesn't someone run the gamut.


----------



## northeast

tonysak said:


> Northeast is on .042 right? Has anyone tried .043? I don't want to start swapping these things out. I have 3 kids and can't remember anything I did an hour ago. I'd like to just put in the .044 I ordered and know it works. Why doesn't someone run the gamut.


I am at .041 right now. I will go to at least .043 but need to get a new jet before I do. They are on order but the storm has slowed all the deliveries. As soon as I get them I will drill this one out to .042 then .043 and see what I get.


----------



## drmerdp

I bumped an HS1332 up to .043 today.

I’ve been souping up an HS1332. I went through the carb to clear up the high speed hunting issue. It was really clean. Granted it was 5 degrees out, but it was clearly lean. Even at .041 today the machine still had a serious hunt...and it was 32 degrees today.

I don’t have the right size drill bit yet, I do have some carburetor reams. Found one that my cheap micrometer said was .0428 .

Low and behold, runs super smooth idles perfect and doesn’t waver. 

A side note, max rpm was set to 3200. That was surprising, bumped it to 3600.


----------



## northeast

As promised the video of the two side by side, however do to snowdrifts I did not have the exact same amount of snow for each machine. I put the modified machine in the deeper snow(it's about 5 inches deeper) look a the two pictures.

A couple things, the video angle is terrible. I could do nothing about that the solar glare was terrible. The modified machine ran the length of my yard 30 seconds faster then the stock machine and it was in deeper snow. The whole video is only 1:30 long so it's probably moving twice the snow at least. That will prevent clogging I would bet money on it.


Next I am now running.042 and I don't think going anymore is worth it. The difference between.039 and .04 was shocking as was .040 to .041 but the difference from .041 to .042 was not that much. There was still a difference it's just that I feel it's about all you are going to get without doing other things.

I also brought the rpm's up. I increased the governor probably 600 rpm's now if I am understanding it correctly there is an electronic governor set at 4000. My ears are pretty good and it sounded and felt like I moved the needle 600 rpm's. So I feel as though the engines are not turning a true 3600 rpm from the factory.


----------



## JnC

Not fair comparison, you had the kid cheering for you . 

I am sold, thank you for posting the video.


----------



## florindi

I have precision gauge pins at work varying .0005" in diameter. I was able to measure the diameter of the stock jet in the HSS1332ATD to be exactly .0395" With that said, I drilled mine to .041" = 1.04mm. In comparison to the stock Honda jets available sizes, I am closer to the 99101-ZH8-1050 (1.05mm). I also ordered a 99101-ZH8-1050 as well and this only provides a .0003" larger hole. The next stock size is a 99101-ZH8-1080 (1.08mm). I'll be testing my drilled out one tonight after work.


----------



## northeast

Although I don’t own the 928 anymore it’s my opinion that it is in desperate need of this modification also. I don’t know how large the jet is in the 270 but I bet if it’s enlarged it will fix the clogging that is plaguing these machines.


----------



## jrom

According to the shop manual:

#85



northeast said:


> Although I don’t own the 928 anymore it’s my opinion that it is in desperate need of this modification also. I don’t know how large the jet is in the 270 but I bet if it’s enlarged it will fix the clogging that is plaguing these machines.


----------



## kirky2126

According to the shop manual it's #75 for the HSS 724... I got a few different sizes ordered and gonna see if I can get s little more out of my machine


----------



## florindi

I ran my machine outside after replacing the jet. I will say it's an improvement with a .041" diameter jet on a 1332. The idle does not surge any longer and it goes through snow better. I am waiting for my new ones to come in. I am hoping I can get to .0425" (1.08mm).


----------



## gormleyflyer2002

and there goes the mpg


----------



## northeast

florindi said:


> I have precision gauge pins at work varying .0005" in diameter. I was able to measure the diameter of the stock jet in the HSS1332ATD to be exactly .0395" With that said, I drilled mine to .041" = 1.04mm. In comparison to the stock Honda jets available sizes, I am closer to the 99101-ZH8-1050 (1.05mm). I also ordered a 99101-ZH8-1050 as well and this only provides a .0003" larger hole. The next stock size is a 99101-ZH8-1080 (1.08mm). I'll be testing my drilled out one tonight after work.


Did you get a chance to drill it out tonight?


----------



## florindi

northeast said:


> florindi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have precision gauge pins at work varying .0005" in diameter. I was able to measure the diameter of the stock jet in the HSS1332ATD to be exactly .0395" With that said, I drilled mine to .041" = 1.04mm. In comparison to the stock Honda jets available sizes, I am closer to the 99101-ZH8-1050 (1.05mm). I also ordered a 99101-ZH8-1050 as well and this only provides a .0003" larger hole. The next stock size is a 99101-ZH8-1080 (1.08mm). I'll be testing my drilled out one tonight after work.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get a chance to drill it out tonight?
Click to expand...

Yes. I ran it drilled to. 041
Please see my comments 2 posts prior.


----------



## vmax29

I don’t know if this was posted, but there is a 2015 PDF regarding high altitude jetting here...


http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf


----------



## northeast

florindi said:


> Yes. I ran it drilled to. 041
> Please see my comments 2 posts prior.


Missed it sorry!


----------



## northeast

vmax29 said:


> I don’t know if this was posted, but there is a 2015 PDF regarding high altitude jetting here...
> 
> 
> http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/pubs/pci54675.pdf


So are you suggesting Honda is shipping machines to Boston with high altitude jets in them?


----------



## tonysak

JnC said:


> Not fair comparison, you had the kid cheering for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I am sold, thank you for posting the video.


 sold on the Ariens Rapid Track?


----------



## vmax29

northeast said:


> So are you suggesting Honda is shipping machines to Boston with high altitude jets in them?


I’m not suggesting anything. That PDF is on their power equipment site. Also it says to conspicuously label the machine with any changes so you remember what jet is in. Good idea but it also notes that “Modifying the carburetor for high elevation use is not covered under the Distributor’s Limited Warranty”.... so caveat emptor.


----------



## Marlow

northeast said:


> So are you suggesting Honda is shipping machines to Boston with high altitude jets in them?


The article is suggesting that they don't ship any machine with high altitude jets in them, period. If you live in high altitude and you wish to have your carb modified, the article says this:
"*To have your engine’s carburetor modified for high elevation use, contact an authorized Honda Power Equipment Dealer near you for assistance*".


----------



## jrom

I am definitely in the camp of re-jetting for more power, but I will wait until my warranty is over (Nov, 2018) before I do. 

It seems northeast is in the business of clearing snow, so he has to make hay when the sun shines and we will benefit from his input.

On the topic of labelling, is there a good system of label making that is: 1. Waterproof/lightfast and, 2. Not prohibitively expensive? My cheap little Brother label maker is easy to use, but the labels fade and rub-off on anything used in weather or high-handling.



vmax29 said:


> ...it says to conspicuously label the machine with any changes so you remember what jet is in. Good idea but it also notes that “Modifying the carburetor for high elevation use is not covered under the Distributor’s Limited Warranty”.... so caveat emptor.


----------



## vmax29

Most importantly look at the charts. It shows a vast improvement at elevation by moving 2 jet sizes (smaller / leaner) So from that I would think that Northeast is right on the money about fattening up the mixture at coastal levels conversely. It makes sense. 

Those P-Touch lables should do the trick if you want to mark the jetting. Unless the machine is left out uncovered it should be ok.


----------



## cranman

I don't believe for a moment the Honda company is going to check your jet size if you have a warranty issue....the people that settle that stuff have never held a wrench.


----------



## jrom

If anyone can add to the Shop Manual info below, I'll update this chart. If any jet sizes are incorrect, please let me know and I'll update the info. Eventually I can make this information available as a PDF.

I'll also add Honda part numbers when I get them.

__________________________________________________

2 Stage OEM Stock Main Jets from Shop Manuals (Dates listed are production years, not model years):

- HS624K1 GX160 (1992-1996) #75 | 99101-ZH8-0750 
- HS724 (1998-?) #75 | 99101-ZH8-0750 
- HSS724 GX200 (2015 >) #75 | 99101-ZH8-0750
- HS828 GX240 (1991-1998) #92 | 99101-ZF5-0920
- HSS928 GX270 (2015 >) #85 | 99101-ZH8-0850
- HS928K0 GX270 (1998 to 2011?) #92 | 99101-ZF5-0920
- HS928K1 GX270 (2011? to 2015) #85 | 99101-ZH8-0850
- HS1132 GX340 (1997-2000 or 1997-2011) #98 | 99101-ZH7-0980
- HSS1332 GX390 (2015 >) #102 | 99101-ZH8-1020


__________________________________________________


From NR Racing https://tinyurl.com/y728uzx6 (I added OEM part numbers and model numbers).

Jet, Main, GX Series, Genuine Honda, GX120 thru GX390 series:

GX160 HS624K1 (1992-1996)
GX200 HS724 (1998-?)
GX200 HSS724 (2015 >)
# 70 (0.70 mm, .0276") | 99101-ZK7-0700 | [HSS724A]
# 72 (0.72 mm, .0283") | 99101-ZH8-0720 | [HSS724A]
# 75 (0.75 mm, .0295") | 99101-ZH8-0750 | HS624K1, HS724 & HSS724A (Stock)
# 78 (0.78 mm, .0307")

GX270 HSS928 (2015 >)
GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)
# 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
# 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
# 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock)

GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011?)
# 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
# 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
# 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-ZF5-0920 | HS828, HS928 (Stock)

GX390 HSS1332A (2015 >)
GX340 HS1132 (1997-2011)
# 95 (0.95 mm, .0374") | 99101-ZH8-0950 | HSS1332A
# 98 (0.98 mm, .0386") | 99101-ZH7-0980 | HS1132 (GX340 Stock)
# 100 (1.00 mm, .0394") | 99101-ZH8-1000 | HSS1332A
# 102 (1.02 mm, .0402") | 99101-ZH8-1020 | HSS1332A (GX390 Stock)
# 105 (1.05 mm, .0413") | 99101-ZH8-1050


# 108 (1.08 mm, .0425") | 99101-ZH8-1080
# 110 (1.10 mm, .0433") | 99101-ZH8-1100
# 112 (1.12 mm, .0441") | 99101-ZH8-1120
# 115 (1.15 mm, .0453")
# 118 (1.18 mm, .0465")
# 120 (1.20 mm, .0472")
# 122 (1.22 mm, .0480")
# 125 (1.25 mm, .0492")


----------



## kirky2126

My shop manual for the 724 HSS says #75 main jet


----------



## jrom

That would be best. I did have an uncle at Ford HQ (Dearborn) in warranty who was a wrench turner – and a durn great one at that, so...you never know, but you're probably right. 


cranman said:


> I don't believe for a moment the Honda company is going to check your jet size if you have a warranty issue....the people that settle that stuff have never held a wrench.


----------



## Apple Guy

So this makes total sense now. I had a Yamaha 828 when they sold them in the US. I had it for 20 years. I sold it because parts were getting used up. I still had the ORIGINAL belts on it, still in good shape after 20 years. They were huge belts. And I did 2 driveways every time here in Minneapolis. All that ever went into that machine in 20 years was one carb because I left gas in on year 3 and it clogged the main, went to push the float axle pin in and folded over the toothpick strut legs. Toothpick thin. and I went through one plug, one scraper and I TIG welded up my own side runners. It was a BRUT. I bought a 2011 928 because I wanted a wheel and bringing in a Yamaha from Canada that is to this day "track only" ( My 2 little driveways are no good for tracks) made no sense as it was $4,000+ for it with all the BS getting across the boarder, when a wheeled Honda was $2100. 

When I compare the two, the Yamaha was a 13 hp, even though it was an 8hp and my Honda 928 was a 8hp at best. NOW I know why I hated my Honda so. I will be jetting it up with GLEE!!!!


.


----------



## Apple Guy

Just pulled my main on a USA Minnesota bought 2011 HS928 and we are at 850 ft above sea level here. This was the year they posted they increased torque on the motor and raised the handle bars 2 inches. My main jet size is #85 it says "K 85 S".


----------



## Boston_Rob

thinking the #92 or even #95 will be beast mode for that GX270.


----------



## Apple Guy

I went to Menard's and the smallest wire drill bit they had is a #60 (.040?), they have #60 thru #51 if I remember right. I was looking for a #65 wire bit. I found a local store, WoodCraft Hobby Store that had a set of #60 thru #88 for $8.00. I hand drilled my 2011 928 to .035.

It runs GREAT!!!! It is 6 deg F right now. I did not check the plug. It idles down nice and clean. I do smell a richer mixture, then Mr LEAN. Fast power up with the throttle is nice and clean. There was only 1.5 to 2 inches in some spots. One drift that was 8 inches and I did notice less bog. Rpm seems to be up just a bit. It sounds healthier overall. I am running non-oxy premium with a can of that engineered gas added to top off last spring storage. Glad I did it. I will get a couple of jets as Boston Rob suggested. 

I now have a 8 year old 5hp Honda single stage to do this to too. :surprise:

.


----------



## tonysak

So, I just popped in a .043 in my HSS1332 (GX390) seems to be fine. I cleaned up some half thawed snow banks/crosswalks so I got some good bucket fulls. I didn't pull the spark plug, but I saw no black smoke under heavy loads. Like what other users mentioned the "hunting" was gone during idle. I did notice more exhaust smell, borderline gasoline smell coming out of the exhaust. 

I have a .044 too I could try, I left the carb bulb cover off. I don't think it will make too much of a difference, under full heavy loads the engine bogged down just not as much. When it did, it had a 'determined to work' sound vs. "I'm about to die" from fuel restriction.

It's worth doing. Nothing magical though. It still won't compare to the Briggs Polar 420, Northeast would have to confirm that though. 

NorthEast have you had autoturn issues with the on the Ariens hydro pro track?


----------



## jrom

tonysak said:


> So, I just popped in a .043 in my HSS1332 (GX390)...I have a .044 too I could try...


Tony, did you buy Honda jets or aftermarket? If OEM, could you give me the Honda part numbers?

Good to hear it's working well so far.


----------



## tonysak

I bought the aftermarket $2.95 make you holla. I work with High Pressure 4,000psi air fittings. I've swapped out plenty of natural gas/propane orifices too. All of this stuff is pretty generic, they are simple outside threaded brass plugs with a hole in it. They aren't even flared fittings. It is like buying a cup of white rice at the store. I can all but guarantee Honda does not make these in house and can't imagine too many places manufacture main jets. Not to mention, these engines have been out for years, so it isn't like there is a new model engine with untested generic parts. I saw no advantage of buying a "Honda" branded one. My 2 cents anyway. It was cheaper than getting drill set.


----------



## jrom

^^^
That's cool Tony. Thanks.


----------



## northeast

tonysak said:


> So, I just popped in a .043 in my HSS1332 (GX390) seems to be fine. I cleaned up some half thawed snow banks/crosswalks so I got some good bucket fulls. I didn't pull the spark plug, but I saw no black smoke under heavy loads. Like what other users mentioned the "hunting" was gone during idle. I did notice more exhaust smell, borderline gasoline smell coming out of the exhaust.
> 
> I have a .044 too I could try, I left the carb bulb cover off. I don't think it will make too much of a difference, under full heavy loads the engine bogged down just not as much. When it did, it had a 'determined to work' sound vs. "I'm about to die" from fuel restriction.
> 
> It's worth doing. Nothing magical though. It still won't compare to the Briggs Polar 420, Northeast would have to confirm that though.
> 
> NorthEast have you had autoturn issues with the on the Ariens hydro pro track?



I had no problems with the auto turn for the 2 years I owned it. I have about 23 driveways I do every storm and put about 6 hours on the blowers each storm. I just traded that machine in for a second 1332.

I suspect.043 might be a bit too rich, a smell of gas would be a good indication of that. It probably is not so rich that you would have wash down issues but probably just wasting fuel. Let me try and get another video up that will clearly show the difference from stock to .042. Remember I increased rpm's by 300 also. I would recommend increased rpm and .042. My opinion is this engine is every bit as motivated as my brigs420 was. 

It was about 45 degrees out when I took this video so the snow was getting pretty heavy.


----------



## tonysak

For what its worth, no dealer would void your warranty. There is really nothing to break. I'd say .042 is very safe easy bump. Your dealer wouldn't even check. If you bring it in for a tune up, they just swap the jets as part of the service. My dealer offered to drill mine out for me last summer. All the dealers are unhappy with how lean they run, or the good dealers anyway. It really wasn't even that technical of a swap, that is up to you though.


----------



## northeast

tonysak said:


> For what its worth, no dealer would void your warranty. There is really nothing to break. I'd say .042 is very safe easy bump. Your dealer wouldn't even check. If you bring it in for a tune up, they just swap the jets as part of the service. My dealer offered to drill mine out for me last summer. All the dealers are unhappy with how lean they run, or the good dealers anyway. It really wasn't even that technical of a swap, that is up to you though.


Exactly!!!! At .042 it's probably better for the engine than at .0395. Running lean is not the best just make sure you keep up with your oil changes. But if you are still worried about your warranty buy a stock jet and put it on the shelf. Change it when you are going to bring it to the dealer it only takes 5 minutes to swap out.


----------



## tonysak

northeast said:


> I had no problems with the auto turn for the 2 years I owned it. I have about 23 driveways I do every storm and put about 6 hours on the blowers each storm. I just traded that machine in for a second 1332.
> 
> I suspect.043 might be a bit too rich, a smell of gas would be a good indication of that. It probably is not so rich that you would have wash down issues but probably just wasting fuel. Let me try and get another video up that will clearly show the difference from stock to .042. Remember I increased rpm's by 300 also. I would recommend increased rpm and .042. My opinion is this engine is every bit as motivated as my brigs420 was.
> 
> It was about 45 degrees out when I took this video so the snow was getting pretty heavy.


Your boy is cute. You should have acted like the blower broke when he put a shovel full of snow in. I thought the same on the .043 with the smell. Figured you would know better. I looked on youtube for how to increase the RMPs and I couldn't find anything. Actually wait I have to look for a set screw type of thing right? Any idea how many turns I give it? I don't have a tach. I could try to count the RPMs but would probably loose count after every .00001 seconds. 

The Hydropro tracks were heavy. Is that why you sold it? the 32" version with the battery start was ridiculously heavy. That's why I didn't pull the trigger. I didn't want to deal with autoturn issues and 400+lbs of Orange machine.


----------



## northeast

tonysak said:


> Your boy is cute. You should have acted like the blower broke when he put a shovel full of snow in. I thought the same on the .043 with the smell. Figured you would know better. I looked on youtube for how to increase the RMPs and I couldn't find anything. Actually wait I have to look for a set screw type of thing right? Any idea how many turns I give it? I don't have a tach. I could try to count the RPMs but would probably loose count after every .00001 seconds.
> 
> The Hydropro tracks were heavy. Is that why you sold it? the 32" version with the battery start was ridiculously heavy. That's why I didn't pull the trigger. I didn't want to deal with autoturn issues and 400+lbs of Orange machine.


Thanks he loves working with me.

I am going to modify the other machine tomorrow and I will video it.

My hydro ariens was a wheeled blower that's why I traded it the tracks are far superior. One side walk I do is 300 feet long and it's all plowed snow from the street (2 lanes each way). The honda walks right through it, the wheeled blower was so much work I just left it in the truck last storm.


----------



## vmax29

I have been working on the rejetting with an eBay Shop gokartracingparts as a source for jets. Very helpful. So I got a set of jets 41 through 43 and a spare emulsion tube. I ordered the wrong set initially and he was very helpful to get me set up with what I needed. Now the emulsion tube that was in the carb was different than the spare he sent. 🧐 So I sent him a picture and he said the etube is for a gx270. Interesting. So I switched the tube that came out and tried the “correct stock” gx390 tube I received. I went right to the 43 (.043) and it seems to run very well on the bench in all throttle positions. Engine runs smooth from start with no surging at all. I haven’t had a chance to test it out. Here is a picture of the tubes. The one on the bottom was from the factory (270?). Thoughts?


----------



## tonysak

vmax29 said:


> I have been working on the rejetting with an eBay Shop gokartracingparts as a source for jets. Very helpful. So I got a set of jets 41 through 43 and a spare emulsion tube. I ordered the wrong set initially and he was very helpful to get me set up with what I needed. Now the emulsion tube that was in the carb was different than the spare he sent. ? So I sent him a picture and he said the etube is for a gx270. Interesting. So I switched the tube that came out and tried the “correct stock” gx390 tube I received. I went right to the 43 (.043) and it seems to run very well on the bench in all throttle positions. Engine runs smooth from start with no surging at all. I haven’t had a chance to test it out. Here is a picture of the tubes. The one on the bottom was from the factory (270?). Thoughts?


What does the tube do? Did you notice a gasoline smell from exhaust on idle?


----------



## vmax29

northeast said:


> Thanks he loves working with me.


He is awesome! Enjoy every minute with him. My son is 14 now. How the time goes so quickly. Great memories.


----------



## vmax29

tonysak said:


> Whay does the tube ?Did you notice gasoline smell from exhaust on idle?


I didn’t but I only ran it for a few minutes tonight till it warmed up. Then ran the throttle at a few different speeds. Seemed really good at all rpms.


----------



## tonysak

vmax29 said:


> tonysak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whay does the tube ?Did you notice gasoline smell from exhaust on idle?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn’t but I only ran it for a few minutes tonight till it warmed up. Then ran the throttle at a few different speeds. Seemed really good at all rpms.
Click to expand...

Mine was steady too at .043. Iffy on the smell. I wonder if more rpms will help that. Are you running at 3600?


----------



## mtblade

northeast said:


> Thanks he loves working with me.
> 
> I am going to modify the other machine tomorrow and I will video it.
> 
> My hydro ariens was a wheeled blower that's why I traded it the tracks are far superior. One side walk I do is 300 feet long and it's all plowed snow from the street (2 lanes each way). The honda walks right through it, the wheeled blower was so much work I just left it in the truck last storm.




Are you removing the carb from the blower when changing the jet, or are you just removing the bowl to get to the jet ?
Thanks


----------



## vmax29

I didn’t put a tach on it. Shouldn’t have changed from where it was set up from factory. I won’t be able to tell a real difference until I put a load on the engine.


----------



## vmax29

Very easy to work on these. Just pull 3 screws and a nut on the air channel piece to remove it. Then there is plenty of room to work and the bowl comes off easily. (No need to remove the carb)


----------



## JnC

Just a quick observation, I have a GX390 from a powerwasher. Its a standard 4" keyed 1" shaft GX390 mated to a pump, I took the bowl off of the carb today to see what jet it had, now mind you this is a stock GX390 with stock carb. It has a #105 (1.05 mm, .0413") aftermarket jet, friend of mine that gave me the pump used it for 4 years without any issues so if there are any concerns about any ill affects of this upgrade those should be eradicated. I also pulled the jet from my 1132 and it was a stock #98 (0.98 mm, .0386"), I am swapping them out for now till I get more jets. 

The GX motors are used all over the world for third party applications, I wonder if all manufacturers do this i.e. upgrade the jet. 

Pictures, the left jet is OE HS1132 as you can tell by the OE carb supplier's logo to the left of the number.


----------



## gormleyflyer2002

interesting for sure but am not sure about the torque and power curve when running above 3600, see attached


----------



## northeast

gormleyflyer2002 said:


> interesting for sure but am not sure about the torque and power curve when running above 3600, see attached


Have you watched the videos I posted? These videos should answer any power curve questions. You have a lot more power it's night and day.


----------



## drmerdp

tonysak said:


> What does the tube do? Did you notice a gasoline smell from exhaust on idle?



The emulsion tube serves to make the fuel easier to burn. It produces a mist of fuel instead of a pure liquid entering the the throat of the carb.

The amount of holes, size of holes, and location of holes adjust the Air / Fuel ratio. The holes mix air into the fuel stream to creat the mist. More or bigger holes lean the mixture, the location on the tube has the effect on mixture in regards to the amount of air flowing through the carb. 

I wouldn’t worry about the smell your talking about. Just beware of enclosed spaces as it’s putting out more noxious gas.

All of our HSS machines are “New”. As they fully break in, they will need the extra fuel. The HS1332 I just worked on, had about 100 hours on it. That gx390 is fully broken in and needed every bit of the .043 jetting.


----------



## tonysak

I took the lower black, what seemed to be cosmetic cover off to have more access to the carb bulb to change the main jet. I didnt put it back on when i tested it.
Someone mentioned this peice helps direct air flow. I find that hard to believe, but if it is true i wonder if that is why i was smelling gasoline in the exhause. Maybe it was rich simply because there was turbulence going into the air filter? 

Again i find this hard to believe as it looks just to be a cover. Sure i could but the cover on and try it but im still in my pjs


----------



## drmerdp

It keeps snow away, and retains engine heat to keep the carb and its associated moving parts like linkages from freezing up.


----------



## DriverRider

gormleyflyer2002 said:


> interesting for sure but am not sure about the torque and power curve when running above 3600, see attached


Interesting to note and contrary to the doomsdayers that you will overheat the engine:laugh: at less than max RPM is the recommended operating RPM is from 2K to 3.6K


----------



## tinter

So, I did the #59 drill bit in the jet of my HSS928 tcd today, and now we wait. It set record temperatures here today, and on the high side. 13c, so a mid January BBQ it was.


----------



## tabora

So, what is the definitive, final word? Is the #110 @ 0.043 the Breakfast of Champions?


----------



## tonysak

tabora said:


> So, what is the definitive, final word? Is the #110 @ 0.043 the Breakfast of Champions?


I left mine .043 in, it was running well. I couldn't retest it today all the snow melted. If you buy it online you might consider getting the .042 also. It's worth the extra $3 to have it IMHO, shipping was $7. 

It's a solid, 10min. mod.


----------



## jdavis

tonysak said:


> I left mine .043 in, it was running well. I couldn't retest it today all the snow melted. If you buy it online you might consider getting the .042 also. It's worth the extra $3 to have it IMHO, shipping was $7.
> 
> It's a solid, 10min. mod.


Where's an easy place online to get them?


----------



## tonysak

http://www.bmikarts.com/Main-Carbur...redator-Engines--Select-Your-Size_p_4936.html


Someone else, earlier in this thread posted that link. I can't take credit for it.


----------



## ninja turtle

I can’t believe nobody’s mentioned soldering the jet if you need to go back down in size?


----------



## grabber

*re-jet vs increase rpm*

HI there, do you think that re-jetting the carb will be a good upgrade even if we leave the rpm stock ?

How difficult is it to increase the rpm ? I do understand that this is the pilot RPM right ?

thanks.



northeast said:


> Have you watched the videos I posted? These videos should answer any power curve questions. You have a lot more power it's night and day.


----------



## northeast

Yes re-jetting is worth it even without the bump in rpm’s. However I see no reason not to do both. I plan on running my machines at 3600 and pushing the throttle to wide open for the tough stuff. 

It’s easy to increase the rpm’s just take off the air box and the governor screw is accessible. It will probably take 30 mins to do both. Then just don’t run wide open unless you need it. The opinions I received from the engine builders was the stock engine can handle up to 5500 rpm’s. The only modification to run that fast would be the flywheel and ignition box. I personally see no need to go this route as I am happy with what I have done.


----------



## DriverRider

grabber said:


> HI there, do you think that re-jetting the carb will be a good upgrade even if we leave the rpm stock ?
> How difficult is it to increase the rpm ? I do understand that this is the pilot RPM right ?
> thanks.


Pilot RPM? Your machine will have an idle RPM set by the idle screw and governed top speed RPM. The carburetor has both an idle fuel circuit and a high speed main fuel circuit. Metric machines will often refer to the idle circuit as a pilot circuit and aptly named pilot fuel jet instead of idle or low speed jet.

A properly adjusted (air/fuel mix) high speed carburetor circuit (and low speed) is always desirable as a rich running engine can wash oil off cylinder walls with excessive fuel consumption and the lean running engine will have higher than normal combustion temperatures and reduced power.

This is not Nascar or Formula 1 and if the engine top speed is at least 3400RPM you are good to go.:wink2:


----------



## northeast

DriverRider said:


> Pilot RPM? Your machine will have an idle RPM set by the idle screw and governed top speed RPM. The carburetor has both an idle fuel circuit and a high speed main fuel circuit. Metric machines will often refer to the idle circuit as a pilot circuit and aptly named pilot fuel jet instead of idle or low speed jet.
> 
> A properly adjusted (air/fuel mix) high speed carburetor circuit (and low speed) is always desirable as a rich running engine can wash oil off cylinder walls with excessive fuel consumption and the lean running engine will have higher than normal combustion temperatures and reduced power.
> 
> This is not Nascar or Formula 1 and if the engine top speed is at least 3400RPM you are good to go.:wink2:


You are right it's not formula 1 however imo if you want to end the clogging issues you will do both especially on the 928's. These engine can easily handle the increased 300 rpm's and the increased torque and impeller speed will make a huge difference. Lowering the rpm's has probably helped pass those emissions in California. Just my opinion.

Are there any 928 guys that have done the mods yet? I am interested to get a report on the difference.


----------



## tonysak

I think i missed something. I thought these (gx390) were set at 3600 from the factory. Is that not the case?


----------



## grabber

did anyone of you guys that did the main jet mod, checked the sparkplug to see if it wasnt too rich of a mixture ? Maybe Jet 0.041 would be better by reading the plug than the 0.042.

A mixture that is too rich would eventually wash the cylinder wall and cause premature wear.

Just about to order mine, and thinking of ordering 0.042 and 0.041 just in case the 0.042 make the spark plug black.

RG


----------



## florindi

Increasing RPM's does not translate to more torque, but rather more horsepower. The torque curve is hyperbolic and beyond 3000 RPM it begins to drop.


----------



## 1132le

florindi said:


> Increasing RPM's does not translate to more torque, but rather more horsepower. The torque curve is hyperbolic and beyond 3000 RPM it begins to drop.


yes it does drop
if you are truly getting more hp
the torque curve will be higher as hp is higher torque x rpm div by 5252= hp
it will have just have say 17 ft lbs instead of 16 at that higher rpm because hp went up it moves the torque curve higher but still dropping as you said
the added impeller speed will outweigh and loss in torque
when i increased my 8 hp flatty from 3400 to 3700 my impeller speed went from 1020 to around 1090 rpm
machine was a beast and still is throws 45 feet
before 30 feet


----------



## tonysak

grabber said:


> did anyone of you guys that did the main jet mod, checked the sparkplug to see if it wasnt too rich of a mixture ? Maybe Jet 0.041 would be better by reading the plug than the 0.042.
> 
> A mixture that is too rich would eventually wash the cylinder wall and cause premature wear.
> 
> Just about to order mine, and thinking of ordering 0.042 and 0.041 just in case the 0.042 make the spark plug black.
> 
> RG


I think .042 is very safe bet at this point. .043 seems to run great for 3 people including myself, however it might be a touch rich for me because my fumes are gassy but that might have just been on start up. I'd get .042 and .043 depending of if you want to mess with .043 or not. Again this is for the gx390.


----------



## Town

florindi said:


> Increasing RPM's does not translate to more torque, but rather more horsepower. The torque curve is hyperbolic and beyond 3000 RPM it begins to drop.


Are there different models of the GX390 engine? The graph depicted shows the HP at 3,600 rpm to be about 11.5 HP but the Honda specs show around 12.5 HP at 3,600 rpm with the torque rated at 19 ft lbs.


----------



## northeast

Ok increasing the fuel mixture will increase your horsepower and torque. If you jet it properly it will continue to make more power until about 5500 rpm’s this is not me making a guess it’s the engine builders opinions and they have done extensive testing. This my spark plug at .042 still running a bit lean IMO. This plug has 9 hours on it now at .041 and two hours at .042. Between the videos and this picture it should end any debate about it being to rich.


----------



## northeast

This is the machine with the stock jet in it, this engine has three hours on it. Notice how white the plug is compared to the plug in the previous post. This machine is running way to lean.


----------



## grabber

Here is how to read spark plug colour for those interested. Do i read that your first picture show an engine with the burning chamber too cold...

Reading spark plugs | Tuning Spark Plugs



northeast said:


> Ok increasing the fuel mixture will increase your horsepower and torque. If you jet it properly it will continue to make more power until about 5500 rpm’s this is not me making a guess it’s the engine builders opinions and they have done extensive testing. This my spark plug at .042 still running a bit lean IMO. This plug has 9 hours on it now at .041 and two hours at .042. Between the videos and this picture it should end any debate about it being to rich.


----------



## tonysak

Total bs. You can't put a tracked snowblower on a dyno :angel:


----------



## DriverRider

tonysak said:


> however it might be a touch rich for me because my fumes are gassy but that might have just been on start up..


A lean running engine requires more choke/prime to start and initially stay running and I am sure you are using the method that worked previously. Next cold start open the throttle and give it two primes and crank away, if it is a little finicky try half choke and two primes the next time taking choke off as soon as possible.:smile_big:


----------



## tonysak

> A lean running engine requires more choke/prime to start and initially stay running and I am sure you are using the method that worked previously. Next cold start open the throttle and give it two primes and crank away, if it is a little finicky try half choke and two primes the next time taking choke off as soon as possible.


I've considered something like that. Its a self-priming engine. I'll try half or no choke tomorrow. Thanks!


----------



## feh

Thanks for the tips! I got a couple jets coming and will give it a shot myself.


----------



## northeast

tonysak said:


> Total bs. You can't put a tracked snowblower on a dyno :angel:



I can feel the power through the handlebars. :grin:


----------



## Tigershark11

Okay, new around here. As far as the 212Predator motors anyone know the jet sizes? Love to make a beast out of this small engine to make my life easier..


----------



## Miles

What jet size would be recommended for the Honda GX270 in the HSS928? This modification makes a lot of sense to me and the photos of the lean burning/regular spark plugs seem to prove that it works.


----------



## northeast

Miles said:


> What jet size would be recommended for the Honda GX270 in the HSS928? This modification makes a lot of sense to me and the photos of the lean burning/regular spark plugs seem to prove that it works.


No one has chimed in with a 270 yet. I would recommend just .002 and see what that does also bring up your rpm's about 300.

Last spring I bought a 928 and promptly returned it after the first storm of the year. Knowing what I know now it may have been just been chocked down and just needed a bit more fuel and rpm. I would be interested in hearing what your results are.


----------



## vmax29

Search eBay gx270 jet.


----------



## tonysak

So this post started off for the GX390. I think GX270 should start it's own thread simply for the sake of people readers being able to stay on topic and find what they are looking for. Maybe a mod, or the OP can edit this title "Rejetting GX390". Miles you have the chance to be a hero here. You could start a clean post, with a recap of info including that "how to read a spark plug" and a link to the go kart page. 

On a side note, I really enjoyed how Honda installed the Carb bowl Drain Knob. That wasn't on my 2014 HS1332 so it was a nice addition to see.


----------



## northeast

Honda wants $80 bucks fir that fancy new bowl.


----------



## [email protected]

northeast said:


> Honda wants $80 bucks fir that fancy new bowl.


Hey, I'm counting on you guys to help fund my pension. T-minus 5 years. :wink2:

Actually, the bowl, gasket, two screws and gaskets are $22.30 MSRP. A whole new carb, including the bowl, is $95.60 MSRP. (prices are for USA-spec parts at USA dealers)


----------



## leonz

Or you could put in the much larger jet(s), have more power and use a catalytic converter and have no exhaust fumes and not worry about electric fuel injection.

The recoil start small diesels like the ones offered by Hatz have manual decompression too and have more power and torque available to the machine it is mounted for the task required.


----------



## tonysak

I swear I was getting light headed testing the thing. Next time, I'll open the garage door a crack. 

Does anybody have a parts list to convert my 1332AT to the same chute found on the 1332ATD? I'd like to get that extra deflector piece which makes snow shoot lower. There was a thread on it (for a guy who did it on his 928), but I can't seem to find it.

After testing today I am good with a .043. Almost want to try the .044 I have.


----------



## DriverRider

tonysak said:


> Does anybody have a parts list to convert my 1332AT to the same chute found on the 1332ATD? I'd like to get that extra deflector piece which makes snow shoot lower. There was a thread on it (for a guy who did it on his 928), but I can't seem to find it.


This one?
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ating-shoot-impeller-kit-today-hss928atd.html


----------



## tonysak

Thanks, it didn't want to pop up in search for me.


----------



## 1132le

I cleaned my carb today on my 2015 414cc lct 20 ft lbs motor
the jet had 113 on the top side
has anyone ever enlarged a jet from a lct 414cc ??
Is this motor just a bored out honda gx390??
i will be upping the rpm to 3700 rpm id like to richen it 1 or 2 sizes??
is the torch tip the way to do this?
i cant find any jets googling this motor
Thanks Guys


----------



## northeast

[email protected] said:


> Hey, I'm counting on you guys to help fund my pension. T-minus 5 years. :wink2:
> 
> Actually, the bowl, gasket, two screws and gaskets are $22.30 MSRP. A whole new carb, including the bowl, is $95.60 MSRP. (prices are for USA-spec parts at USA dealers)


That's the quote I got from my local dealer.


----------



## ThumperACC

*Just re-jetted my GX-270*

HSS928AATD

I used a 0.036" jet, stock was 0.85mm or 0.0335", so a difference of 0.0025".

Didn't have a lot of time or snow (just some 10" piles of hard granular, rained on snow) to evaluate, but preliminary observations are:

It came off choke without hunting much faster
It idled well, both fast and slow idle.
When I got it to gulp down significant icy lead snow, it responded immediately with a deep growl, didn't lose speed and really threw.
No fumey exhaust at idle
And it just sounds 'right' under load, like it should

Before, under heavy load, it would lose significant RPM before digging in and fighting, now there seems to be no loss of RPM.

Going to need a good heavy (or wet) snow to be sure, but preliminary results are very promising.

Thanks a ton to Northeast for this thread, his research and sharing what he'd learned.
:bowing: :biggrin::biggrin:

ThumperACC


----------



## Boston_Rob

GX270

_Stock jet was 85 in the newest HSS series 928_...Holy lean batman!

The HS928 series lists the leanest jet at 88 going to 90 and then 92 as the norm. I wouldn't be surprised to see benefit with the 95 or 98 without being too rich. Guess I need to pull the trigger.

Edit: Upgrade made to #98. or 0.0386. (0.0024ish over the 92 jet.) 
Does not appear to be too rich. plug is a light tan after 15 minutes running. Will report back after tomorrow's snow loading.

Update: apparently there are several carburetor breakdowns for the HS928 and I was able to confirm the 85 jet has been the norm. Not sure why there is a discrepancy so please assume the lower value of 85 as your starting point. Don't do as I do  Thanks AppleGuy for pointing this out.


----------



## northeast

Boston_Rob said:


> GX270
> 
> _Stock jet was 85 in the newest HSS series 928_...Holy lean batman!
> 
> The HS928 series lists the leanest jet at 88 going to 90 and then 92 as the norm. I wouldn't be surprised to see benefit with the 95 or 98 without being too rich. Guess I need to pull the trigger.
> 
> Edit: Upgrade made to #98. or 0.385. (Approx 0.023ish over the 92 jet.)
> Does not appear to be too rich. plug is a light tan after 15 minutes running. Will report back after tomorrow's snow loading.


I bet it's a totally different snowblower.


----------



## Miles

Thanks, Northeast. Thanks ThumperACC and BostonRob and everyone participating here.


----------



## Boston_Rob

Sorry... was missing a zero in there and updated my post. Essentially opened it up .0024" over the stock 92mm low alt. jet listed in the parts diagrams for the HS928 - GX270. 

Figured I'd cut to the chase and can always roll back to the #95 or #92 in hand. So far I'm liking the plug coloring. Updates to follow.

Update: There are conflicting parts breakdowns listing a 92 and the 85 as the main jet. Best to start at 85 rather that following me


----------



## Boston_Rob

*Hs928 gx270*



northeast said:


> I bet it's a totally different snowblower.


:devil:


Looking forward to releasing the beast at the EOD and not see it struggle to load up. Unfortunately we are only in the 4-6 inch band for testing tomorrow. Hardly a true load test but it should be heavier consistency and I can increase the ground speed to compensate. :grin:

Can always widen the street too.


----------



## Apple Guy

Boston_Rob said:


> GX270
> 
> _Stock jet was 85 in the newest HSS series 928_...Holy lean batman!
> 
> The HS928 series lists the leanest jet at 88 going to 90 and then 92 as the norm. I wouldn't be surprised to see benefit with the 95 or 98 without being too rich. Guess I need to pull the trigger.
> 
> Edit: Upgrade made to #98. or 0.0386. (0.0024ish over the 92 jet.)
> Does not appear to be too rich. plug is a light tan after 15 minutes running. Will report back after tomorrow's snow loading.


My 2011 HS928 stock main jet was an 85 too. So no your figures are not correct.


----------



## Apple Guy

northeast said:


> No one has chimed in with a 270 yet. I would recommend just .002 and see what that does also bring up your rpm's about 300.
> 
> Last spring I bought a 928 and promptly returned it after the first storm of the year. Knowing what I know now it may have been just been chocked down and just needed a bit more fuel and rpm. I would be interested in hearing what your results are.


Yes I did HERE Post#124

I went to Menard's and the smallest wire drill bit they had is a #60 (.040?), they have #60 thru #51 if I remember right. I was looking for a #65 wire bit. I found a local store, WoodCraft Hobby Store that had a set of #60 thru #88 for $8.00. I hand drilled my 2011 928 to .035.

It runs GREAT!!!! It is 6 deg F right now. I did not check the plug. It idles down nice and clean. I do smell a richer mixture, then Mr LEAN. Fast power up with the throttle is nice and clean. There was only 1.5 to 2 inches in some spots. One drift that was 8 inches and I did notice less bog. Rpm seems to be up just a bit. It sounds healthier overall. I am running non-oxy premium with a can of that engineered gas added to top off last spring storage. Glad I did it. I will get a couple of jets as Boston Rob suggested. 

I now have a 8 year old 5hp Honda single stage to do this to too. :surprise:


----------



## Boston_Rob

*Hs928 gx270*



Apple Guy said:


> My 2011 HS928 stock main jet was an 85 too. *So no your figures are not correct.*


Could very well be...who the heck knows....here is my thinking. Honda is listing the main low alt jet as a 92. I suspect this is still conservative hence going higher. 

Here is the link I referenced.
All Years HS928 WA Honda Snowblower CARBURETOR Diagram and Parts

Oddly missing is reference to an 85 jet but clearly that happened.

EDIT:

Found the reference to the 85 jet in another diagram here: 
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Snow Blower/0/HS928 WA/CARBURETOR/parts.html

I will post an update.


----------



## jrom

#85 Main Jet starts with the HS928K1

I'll update the chart on post #118 (page 12). My shop manual covered the K0 928s, not the K1s.

Thanks Apple Guy and Boston_Rob



Boston_Rob said:


> Could very well be...who the heck knows....here is my thinking. Honda is listing the main low alt jet as a 92. I suspect this is still conservative hence going higher.
> 
> Oddly missing is reference to an 85 jet but clearly that happened.


----------



## Boston_Rob

thanks jrom. That solves the GX270 mystery and points to me needing to dial it back to around a #92. Unfortunately the snow is lacking today for any good testing conditions.


----------



## FullThrottle

I used my HSS928 blower for the first time since purchasing it in November/2017,not very impressed with the 9 HP GX270T2 Engine, hopefully it gets better after broken in and the piston walls become glazed. 
The snow was very light and when driving into the snow it had a tendency to bog down to the point where I had to back of on the forward speed before in stalled out.
I read in my service manual where the Engine RPM is set up to cruse around 3600 rpm.top speed.Did anyone have this issue when they used their new blower.If so did you have to check and increase the motor rpm.I see in this post where members is changing the carb. jet to a larger one.
Will changing the jet to a larger size affect the Engine for the long term use, since it's manufacture specs. is set around the size of the jet that comes carb. More or less what I am trying to say will it beat itself up by introducing more gas to it to increase the Engine power. 



Boston_Rob said:


> thanks jrom. That solves the GX270 mystery and points to me needing to dial it back to around a #92. Unfortunately the snow is lacking today for any good testing conditions.


----------



## jrom

^^^
Boston_Rob

I like your use of red for highlighting. I am using it for all stock jet line items. Thanks, and good luck on the mod. Keep us posted. 

I'll be doing a #105, 108 or 110 upgrade, with a slight upping of the RPMs sometime soon. I'll probably skip the 108 though.


----------



## jrom

I went from a 24 year old GX240, with over 1,000 hours to a new GX390, so I noticed a real big upgrade in power, but I knew it could be more. After about 20 hours I noticed quite a bit more power. 

A bigger jet and maybe/maybe not increasing your RPMs will probably give you what it should be.

*Note, I think you have a GX270.



missileman said:


> I used my HSS928 blower for the first time since purchasing it in November/2017,nor very impressed with the 9 HP GX390 Engine, hopefully it gets better after broken in and the piston walls become glazed.
> The snow was very light and when driving into the snow it had a tendency to bog down to the pint where I had to back of on the forward speed before in stalled out.
> I read in my service manual where the Engine RPM is set up to cruse around 3600 rpm.top speed.Did anyone have this issue when they used their new blower.If so did you have to check and increase the motor rpm.I see in this post where members is changing the carb. jet to a larger one.
> Will changing the jet to a larger size affect the Engine for the long term use, since it's manufacture specs. is set around the size of the jet that comes carb. More or less what I am trying to say will it beat itself up by introducing more gas to it to increase the Engine power.


----------



## FullThrottle

thanks jrom
Stand to be corrected,you are right it's a GX270T2 according to my service manual.Hopefully it does have more rump after using it for 20 hrs. like you mentioned.
Cheers




jrom said:


> I went from a 24 year old GX240, with over 1,000 hours to a new GX390, so I noticed a real big upgrade in power, but I knew it could be more. After about 20 hours I noticed quite a bit more power.
> 
> A bigger jet and maybe/maybe not increasing your RPMs will probably give you what it should be.
> 
> *Note, I think you have a GX270.


----------



## northeast

missileman said:


> I used my HSS928 blower for the first time since purchasing it in November/2017,not very impressed with the 9 HP GX270T2 Engine, hopefully it gets better after broken in and the piston walls become glazed.
> The snow was very light and when driving into the snow it had a tendency to bog down to the pint where I had to back of on the forward speed before in stalled out.
> I read in my service manual where the Engine RPM is set up to cruse around 3600 rpm.top speed.Did anyone have this issue when they used their new blower.If so did you have to check and increase the motor rpm.I see in this post where members is changing the carb. jet to a larger one.
> Will changing the jet to a larger size affect the Engine for the long term use, since it's manufacture specs. is set around the size of the jet that comes carb. More or less what I am trying to say will it beat itself up by introducing more gas to it to increase the Engine power.
> 
> 
> 
> Boston_Rob said:
> 
> 
> 
> thanks jrom. That solves the GX270 mystery and points to me needing to dial it back to around a #92. Unfortunately the snow is lacking today for any good testing conditions.
Click to expand...

In theory it should allow the engine to last longer. A richer burn is a cooler burn. You just don’t want to be too rich, that creates a different set of problems.


----------



## Boston_Rob

Certainly not enough snow for a good test but there was just enough street-side plow slop to immediately confirm that the HS928K1 GX270 cannot run a #98 jet in stock configuration. As others have said....this is not formula 1. 

Under load it coughs and is clearly over-jetted. Now that I know we are dealing with a starting point of #85.... quick trip to the shed and swapped out for a #92 (0.0362") with very good results. Improvement - YES. Need some decent snow pack to confirm. I also thought I detected some belt slippage so I'll need to adjust the idler pulley just to be safe. 

Sadly, there is no snow in the extended forecast at this point. :sad2:


----------



## kirky2126

I tried the rejetting in my HSS 724 . Stock jet is #75=75mm/.0295 .I ordered some different sizes couple oem # 78=75mm/.0307
80=.0315 and couple generic ones 
#81 .032" and a #86 .034"..I started with the #81 .032" and found big difference in machine only used it for couple min cause wasn't much snow in my back yard to do a real good test but machine never stalled when I forced it . Didn't smell any gas fumes but I forgot to pull the plug and look at it and when removing the jet I chipped a small bit from it screwdriver wasn't quite big I guess . Then I put in the # 86.034" I went out and cleared sidewalk in front of house 18-24"hard packed snow and open up full throttle and was pushing on the snowblower too and couldn't get it to stall . Slowed down but kept on throwing snow . On the stock jet it would stall as soon as I stuck the bucket in but was getting a little smoke so I pulled the plug and was a bit black so I tried to ream out a oem # 78 to a #82 or .032" or so but I only had tip cleaners and nothing in that size so I used a smaller size and reamed it out but I think it closer to #85 or .0335..went back and blowed the neighbours sidewalk and still couldn't get machine to stall no matter how much I forced it only slowed down . Can't smell any gas but when I pulled the plug it was a little black but I only ran machine 10 min or so but I think I'll need a #82=82mm/.0323"..and increase the rpm then I'll have a 24" beast ..lack of snow and raining now to do any more testing but I got a new beast and loves it .. big thank you to Northeast for his knowledge and testing


----------



## Boston_Rob

looking like .002" to .003" above the stock jetting is receiving favorable and consistent results across the various GX series snow platforms.


----------



## northeast

As stated previously I do 23 driveways every storm. These 2 hondas are doing the same work as my two pro 28 Ariens did in 1/2 the time. Now I need new customers and my old customers are not going to feel like they are getting their money's worth as I am flying through. But the first storm I used the 1332 I was ready to trade it in for two new Ariens, the Honda was just plain slow and lazy, not now!!!!!!!

Thank the go cart racers For the information and they also said it will run forever at 4000 RPM's so crank them up.


----------



## northframingham

Has anybody re-jetted the B&S Polar 420cc? 

If so, how much? Just the next size up drill bit?

Mine is NEW. If I do it, should I break the engine in first?

If I should break it in, what kinda run hours are you talking?

Any input is appreciated.

2017 Ariens Hydro Pro 28" (new just bought, have not used yet)


----------



## DriverRider

Every small engine built in the last 10-15 years are likely candidates for an increase in jet size due to EPA regs and is nothing new.lain:


----------



## jrom

Main Jet & Drill Bit Sizes Chart


----------



## grabber

to increase the RPM, i assume there is a adjusting nut somewhere we need to turn... erghhh... if im lucky ennough to find the nut... how much should we turn... half of a turn, or full turn. Do we need to turn clockwise, or counter clock wise ?

thanks for your help



northeast said:


> As stated previously I do 23 driveways every storm. These 2 hondas are doing the same work as my two pro 28 Ariens did in 1/2 the time. Now I need new customers and my old customers are not going to feel like they are getting their money's worth as I am flying through. But the first storm I used the 1332 I was ready to trade it in for two new Ariens, the Honda was just plain slow and lazy, not now!!!!!!!
> 
> Thank the go cart racers For the information and they also said it will run forever at 4000 RPM's so crank them up.


----------



## drmerdp

There are two stopper screws. One limits the throttle travel to idle, and the other to full throttle. 

The full throttle limit screw is located under the gas tank. It’s accessable through a hole in the plastic escutcheon cover on the front of the engine. To increase maximum rpms, the screw gets unscrewed to allow more cable travel. 

Use a tachometer to set the desired rpm.


----------



## TomHodge

Are the various honda jets the same physical size, or do they only fit only one size engine? I think I need either a #90 or #92 for my GX270.


----------



## RedOctobyr

northframingham said:


> Has anybody re-jetted the B&S Polar 420cc?
> 
> If so, how much? Just the next size up drill bit?





DriverRider said:


> Every small engine built in the last 10-15 years are likely candidates for an increase in jet size due to EPA regs and is nothing new.lain:


I'm glad you asked the question, thanks, I've been wondering this too. I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but the idea of waking up some additional power in an engine is appealing, of course. 

My OHV Tecumseh is from 2000, I have no idea if they set those a little too lean, and I don't recall seeing discussions about lean issues on similar-age Tecumsehs. But it's an interesting thought. I could at least pull the plug and see how it looks.


----------



## jrom

TomHodge said:


> Are the various honda jets the same physical size, or do they only fit only one size engine? I think I need either a #90 or #92 for my GX270.


*Double check the part numbers for jets #88, 90 and 92 with your dealer or on a site like boats.net against the engine list that pops up. I've seen different numbers on those three as optional jets.


Seems like the consensus is to go 2 to 3 sizes larger. These jets should all be the same thread size and diameter.

Honda OEM Stock Main Jets from Shop Manual: 
HSS928 GX270 - Production years: 2015 - 2017, model years: 2016 - 2018. 
Main Jet (Stock): #85 Part Number: 99101-ZH8-0850
_____________________________________________________________

GX270 HSS928 (2015 - 2018)
# 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A (Optional)
# 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A (Optional)
# 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HSS928A (Stock)

# 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZH8-0880 
# 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZH8-0890
# 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-ZH8-0920 

GX390 HSS1332A (2015 - 2018)
# 95 (0.95 mm, .0374") | 99101-ZH8-0950 | (Optional)
# 98 (0.98 mm, .0386") | 99101-ZH7-0980 | (Optional) 
# 100 (1.00 mm, .0394") | 99101-ZH8-1000 | (Optional) 
# 102 (1.02 mm, .0402") | 99101-ZH8-1020 | (HSS1332A GX390 Stock)

# 105 (1.05 mm, .0413") | 99101-ZH8-1050
# 108 (1.08 mm, .0425") | 99101-ZH8-1080
# 110 (1.10 mm, .0433") | 99101-ZH8-1100

_____________________________________________________________


----------



## kirky2126

TomHodge said:


> Are the various honda jets the same physical size, or do they only fit only one size engine? I think I need either a #90 or #92 for my GX270.


I think the gx 270 uses #82 main jet my best guess would be #88 or #90 at most my 724 takes #75 the most I can use is # 82 that up 3 sizes above stock and that may be a bit rich .. not enough snow to do a good test ..I'm guessing there all the same size and shape just different size hole


----------



## CalgaryPT

Rather than buy the actual jet (I think you can only step to the #80) it makes more sense to buy the bits and then increment as needed.

Thanks again.


----------



## db130

As an FYI, the OHC 208cc engine on the current model Troy-Bilt Storm 2410 comes with a #76 jet. I'm not sure what equates to in decimals, but these snowblowers are known to run lean.

I had a spare .032 jet from a Honda/Predator application (aka #81) so I swapped it out. It ran very well afterwards.

tl:dr Predator jets are compatible with Troybilt 208cc engines.


----------



## CalgaryPT

db130 said:


> As an FYI, the OHC 208cc engine on the current model Troy-Bilt Storm 2410 comes with a #76 jet. I'm not sure what equates to in decimals, but these snowblowers are known to run lean.
> 
> I had a spare .032 jet from a Honda/Predator application (aka #81) so I swapped it out. It ran very well afterwards.
> 
> tl:dr Predator jets are compatible with Troybilt 208cc engines.


I found this Canadian Honda bulletin online about re-jetting for higher altitude. For Honda at least it confirmed that jet sizes refer to metric equivalents. Half-way through the article it says: "Consequently, the correct jet size is 0.60 mm (#60)."

But I don't know if this is standard as some engines don't seem to have a standard jet size that equals anything others use. I used to use welding wire to test, but the size isn't consistent enough, and once you scratch off the copper coating it's anyone's guess. 

Even if you don't drill out your own jets, a carb drill bit kit is useful for checking sizes....at least until they invent really tiny callipers


----------



## db130

CalgaryPT said:


> I found this Canadian Honda bulletin online about re-jetting for higher altitude. For Honda at least it confirmed that jet sizes refer to metric equivalents. Half-way through the article it says: "Consequently, the correct jet size is 0.60 mm (#60)."
> 
> But I don't know if this is standard as some engines don't seem to have a standard jet size that equals anything others use. I used to use welding wire to test, but the size isn't consistent enough, and once you scratch off the copper coating it's anyone's guess.
> 
> Even if you don't drill out your own jets, a carb drill bit kit is useful for checking sizes....at least until they invent really tiny callipers


That sounds about right... I also didn't see post #213 until I saw your reply.. So #76 equates to .76mm = ~.030" -> essentially, I went up 1 jet size when I went up to .032.


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

TomHodge said:


> Are the various honda jets the same physical size, or do they only fit only one size engine? I think I need either a #90 or #92 for my GX270.


Yeah. The jets are like a small peanut sized brass bit, and they have a precise tiny hole in them that helps meter the fuel. The different 'size' jets are all the same physical size, and compatible with any engine that uses the same carb. Theres quite a few different type of jets to fit different carbs, and each different type has a huge range of hole sizes. Most Honda small engines use the same carb, which uses the same physical jet, just with different size holes in them. The jets can be identified by the number stamped into them, as well as the physical dimensions. Theres a few of them that look very similar, but are different physical dimensions. The numbering system is all the same, but if the jet wont physically fit, it wont work.

The link thats been posted earlier is the size for most every Honda small engine. Honda does not make the carb, so its not a 'Honda' jet, which means its not all that specific to a particular engine. You could also get some certain size jets right from Honda, and they're not very expensive. The part numbers were posted earlier in here.


----------



## CalgaryPT

db130 said:


> That sounds about right... I also didn't see post #213 until I saw your reply.. So #76 equates to .076mm = ~.030" -> .


YUP...except I think you mean .76mm, not .076mm.

I grew up in Canada in the 1970s when they used to teach both imperial AND metric, which really means I am just twice as confused. And that just the math I'm referring to.


----------



## jrom

Are you sure it hasn't been from hitting the _sausage_ scented Fluid Film again? My wife asks me from time to time what kind of bottle (or can) have I been hitting and I just tell her it's the _apple mash_ scented FF..."Here, step in the garage and take a whiff for yourself." :smile:



CalgaryPT said:


> ...which really means I am just twice as confused. And that just the math I'm referring to...I grew up in Canada in the 1970s when they used to teach both imperial AND metric,


So, to get to a #76 (.76mm) jet, what size drill bit would you use? My nifty little lifted chart (from the Honda cart builders) does not list a #76 or its related bit and I could not locate (at least an OEM one) after searching.


----------



## kirky2126

jrom said:


> Are you sure it hasn't been from hitting the _sausage_ scented Fluid Film again? My wife asks me from time to time what kind of bottle (or can) have I been hitting and I just tell her it's the _apple mash_ scented FF..."Here, step in the garage and take a whiff for yourself." :smile:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to get to a #76 (.76mm) jet, what size drill bit would you use? My nifty little lifted chart (from the Honda cart builders) does not list a #76 or its related bit and I could not locate (at least an OEM one) after searching.


 I got some bits ordered no # 76 in the kit but 75 is listed #69 0.75 mm-0.0292"


----------



## TomHodge

jrom said:


> Are you sure it hasn't been from hitting the _sausage_ scented Fluid Film again? My wife asks me from time to time what kind of bottle (or can) have I been hitting and I just tell her it's the _apple mash_ scented FF..."Here, step in the garage and take a whiff for yourself." :smile:
> 
> 
> 
> So, to get to a #76 (.76mm) jet, what size drill bit would you use? My nifty little lifted chart (from the Honda cart builders) does not list a #76 or its related bit and I could not locate (at least an OEM one) after searching.


This should help. #drill, decimal, MM


----------



## DriverRider

jrom said:


> So, to get to a #76 (.76mm) jet, what size drill bit would you use? My nifty little lifted chart (from the Honda cart builders) does not list a #76 or its related bit and I could not locate (at least an OEM one) after searching.


All jets are drilled, either to metric or decimal values (usually number drill size including metric manufacturers) and every possible size is listed here. 

https://www.gfii.com/images/Greenfield_Decimal_Equivalents.pdf


----------



## jrom

^
Thank you for that DriverRider. That's a keeper.


----------



## CalgaryPT

jrom said:


> Are you sure it hasn't been from hitting the _sausage_ scented Fluid Film again? .


LOL. But my sausage-struggle is real. #MEATTOO


----------



## drmerdp

DriverRider said:


> All jets are drilled, either to metric or decimal values (usually number drill size including metric manufacturers) and every possible size is listed here.
> 
> https://www.gfii.com/images/Greenfield_Decimal_Equivalents.pdf


That’s a great chart.


----------



## feh

So I changed the main jet in my HSS1332 by ordering the 0.043” jet and I could tell the difference right away in how it fires up and runs. Way smoother than with the stock jet. I ordered it from here:

http://www.bmikarts.com/Main-Carbur...lect-Your-Size_p_4936.html?lt_c=1&quickcart=1

I’ll report back when I get more snow so I can truly see the difference.


----------



## CalgaryPT

And if you could check the plug especially after loading it a few runs and let us know that would REALLY be appreciated. I like this article because it has good pics:

https://www.tuningmatters.com/how-tos/beginners-guides/check-spark-plug-correct-carburetor-setting/

Thanks @feh


----------



## Jarsh

Just tried an order and they want $38 USD to ship a $5.90 order to Canada. I'll Pass!


----------



## kirky2126

Jarsh said:


> Just tried an order and they want $38 USD to ship a $5.90 order to Canada. I'll Pass!


I ordered couple from kartworks.ca. 9 bucks each but cost me $17 shipping to NL .. they are located in ont . Your shipping my be less if your closer and they sell oem Honda jets .. I ordered couple from OMB warehouse from the states non oem jets and not same quality


----------



## feh

CalgaryPT said:


> And if you could check the plug especially after loading it a few runs and let us know that would REALLY be appreciated. I like this article because it has good pics:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.tuningmatters.com/how-tos/beginners-guides/check-spark-plug-correct-carburetor-setting/
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @feh




Sounds good. Thanks for the link as well. I also ordered a smaller 0.042” jet in case I need to go leaner. I’ll take the spark plug out in the spring and report back then.


----------



## CalgaryPT

Jarsh said:


> Just tried an order and they want $38 USD to ship a $5.90 order to Canada. I'll Pass!


Holy Cow are you serious???????? There's robbery and then there's a more personal crime starting with the letter R.

I don't blame you. Years ago when playing around with jets I started ordering a few extra stock ones from my dealer and now I drill them out with a kit I bought online. Maybe that's a longer term solution.

$38 USD. Trump hates NAFTA more than I thought.


----------



## Jarsh

Just go into their site and do a mock order. Glad I was sitting! I've come across this with other items on different sites as well. An envelope and would work just as well. Why I would have to sign for a $6 USD item coming to Canada is beyond me.


----------



## grabber

Actually when reading the plug... you need to look inside the plug, where the porcelain meet the base.. hard to see without a light. You need to see brownish colour there... if white, its too lean. This is how you see WOT mixture.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/%2A%2A%2A-basics-reading-spark-plug%2A%2A%2A-3063102/



CalgaryPT said:


> And if you could check the plug especially after loading it a few runs and let us know that would REALLY be appreciated. I like this article because it has good pics:
> 
> https://www.tuningmatters.com/how-tos/beginners-guides/check-spark-plug-correct-carburetor-setting/
> 
> here is more info on porcelain reading....
> 
> http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/1727/spark-plug-reading-tuning-info
> 
> Thanks @*feh*


----------



## CalgaryPT

grabber said:


> Actually when reading the plug... you need to look inside the plug, where the porcelain meet the base.. hard to see without a light. You need to see brownish colour there... if white, its too lean. This is how you see WOT mixture.
> 
> https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/%2A%2A%2A-basics-reading-spark-plug%2A%2A%2A-3063102/


Thanks....that's helpful.


----------



## TomHodge

Just ordered .035 and .036 jets from Off Road Go Kart Parts, Racing Go Kart Parts, Motorcycle Parts | BMI Karts and Parts. Tried to order from Jacks but after sending all the #s from my hss928aatd I couldn't get anywhere with them. Hopefully these jets will work for me.


----------



## csonni

I placed a mock order of .040 to .045 and the shipping came to $38 as well. There must be a cheaper alternative. I went into the dealership where I purchased mine just after Christmas and went to the service area. They're unaware of the "lean" issue but they were interested. They confirmed that replacing the jet (it is main and not pilot, correct?) will not void any warranty.


----------



## Jarsh

Main is correct. Generally you can go up a couple sizes or so to around 0.002 over stock. 

Still awaiting an order but don't know whether I'll bother with it at this point. Almost tempted to take my pedal bike out for a scoot. This winter sure has sucked thus far here in Atlantic Canada. Had the sled out once and the blower usage I can count on one hand.  I need a hobby.


----------



## csonni

We've got loads of snow here in Labrador. 230cm since the snow season began but have a good 4.5 to 5 feet on level. And to think that Feb and mar are the snow months!


----------



## Jarsh

I'm an hour outside of Corner Brook. We were doing ok until we got nailed with the flood. The ground is white here and that's about it. Go figure, I just got my blower working, "properly", after three years of hardship with it and the dealer. Once I knew it was going to work fine, I ordered new parts and did the work myself. Had I known it would have been that easy, I would have did it 3 years ago for the sake of $30 or $40 . Go figure! And to think I nearly got rid of the thing. 

We may be in for storm next week. Feel bad for the boys who are making payments on new sleds and can't use them. Now they know why I"m hanging onto my 37 year old rig. lol It's just not worth it to me to have that kind of coin tied up into something I can 't use.


----------



## rosco61

More proof they are running them lean. This is a picture from my 1332 service manual. 
See the notice bottom left.
I have my new main jet and will install this weekend. RLV5016
Thanks for all the information!


----------



## Jae0

So, I’ve read through these posts, but was hoping for clarification. For a novice like myself who is hoping to get a bit more out of the HSS928, what exactly do I need to purchase/do? Enlarged main jet, but what is the consensus on size? I’m in Canada, so does anyone have a recommendation on where these can be purchased from? What about upping the RPMs? Required, beneficial, no value? Thanks in advance for any clarity you all can provide.


----------



## xenon55

rosco61 said:


> More proof they are running them lean. This is a picture from my 1332 service manual.
> See the notice bottom left.
> I have my new main jet and will install this weekend. RLV5016
> Thanks for all the information!


It's funny you mentioned that, because I saw it last night when I was going through my service manual that got delivered yesterday.


----------



## Marlow

Jae0 said:


> So, I’ve read through these posts, but was hoping for clarification. For a novice like myself who is hoping to get a bit more out of the HSS928, what exactly do I need to purchase/do? Enlarged main jet, but what is the consensus on size? I’m in Canada, so does anyone have a recommendation on where these can be purchased from? What about upping the RPMs? Required, beneficial, no value? Thanks in advance for any clarity you all can provide.


I am in Canada and ordered mine from this ebay store for a total cost of $23cdn shipped for two:
Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay


----------



## Jae0

Marlow said:


> I am in Canada and ordered mine from this ebay store for a total cost of $23cdn shipped for two:
> 
> Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay




Thanks Marlow. Can you tell me, for the 928, what item I’m searching for on their page? I want to be sure I’m looking at the right thing.


----------



## Marlow

Jae0 said:


> Thanks Marlow. Can you tell me, for the 928, what item I’m searching for on their page? I want to be sure I’m looking at the right thing.


Your stock jet size is:
# 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HSS928A (Stock)

So I'd order both a .035 and a .036 main jet and see how those work out for you which I have linked below. Make sure when you check out that you add a message to the seller requesting combined shipping then he'll refund you around $8.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/035-Honda-G...Kart-Racing-/191025662162?hash=item2c7a0448d2
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/036-Honda-G...Kart-Racing-/191025662341?hash=item2c7a044985


----------



## Jae0

Marlow said:


> Your stock jet size is:
> # 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HSS928A (Stock)
> 
> So I'd order both a .035 and a .036 main jet and see how those work out for you which I have linked below. Make sure when you check out that you add a message to the seller requesting combined shipping then he'll refund you around $8.
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/035-Honda-G...Kart-Racing-/191025662162?hash=item2c7a0448d2
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/036-Honda-G...Kart-Racing-/191025662341?hash=item2c7a044985




Thanks Marlow.


----------



## Marlow

That ebay seller I have linked above sells main jet kits that come with an emulsion tube as well. It says:
This E-tube has a slightly larger main bore and less air bleed holes providing a better fuel signal.
This E-tube improves performance through the rpm range. Throttle response is improved better from bottom end and mid-range. 
This tube is legal in Superbox and BP. It's not permitted in Box Stock.

Has anybody replaced the tube as well?


----------



## xenon55

I ordered OE ones, as well as a set of belts, from my local dealer for my HSS1332. I'm not surprised that they state "Made in Japan". So not a Chinese supplier as some have thought. Keihin is the manufacturer of the carb in case anyone was wondering.


----------



## csonni

What size jets were those you ordered? I could probably just order from the number on those pkgs of yours.


----------



## xenon55

csonni said:


> What size jets were those you ordered? I could probably just order from the number on those pkgs of yours.


1.05mm and 1.08mm first two steps richer from stock on the HSS1332.


----------



## csonni

So, are you going to install the smaller of the 2 first and then possibly the larger later?


----------



## xenon55

csonni said:


> So, are you going to install the smaller of the 2 first and then possibly the larger later?


Probably. I'll try it with the stock jet first and see how it runs. If it doesn't run smooth at full throttle, I'll go one step richer first.

I still have to prep/PDI mine and install some FallLine skids. I was busy cleaning my Ariens among other things today. Plus it was nearly 50 degrees today. What's the rush lol.


----------



## kirky2126

I got around to fine tuning my HSS 724 today and after trying several different jet sizes I found the oem #80 =.080mm/.0315" was the sweet spot I tried # 67 drill bit =.0320" and machine had a little sputter at full throttle with no load .. and I increased my rpm to 3950 which is still in Honda spec in my service manual it states 3800 +/- 150 ..bring on the snow for a good test


----------



## CalgaryPT

Jarsh said:


> Had the sled out once and the blower usage I can count on one hand.  I need a hobby.


LOL. And people wonder why I pray for snow and do all my neighbour's properties in my retirement years.... :grin:


----------



## tinter

Ok, stupid question time. And I'm lazy for looking things up. How do you adjust the RPM?


----------



## kirky2126

tinter said:


> Ok, stupid question time. And I'm lazy for looking things up. How do you adjust the RPM?


 I just removed the air filter housing and the assembly only couple 10 mil bolts on my 724 it's the rear screw turn it counter clockwise I'm not sure if you can get access to the adjustment screw with the housing in place .. I like picking thing apart I'm glad I did cause the other day the electric start didn't work I thought the battery was weak even though it's on battery tinder most of the time but while I was takeing the housing off I noticed the bolt that attaches to the motor and a black housing was loose and that's the bolt that got the ground for the battery .. the bolt was striped so I just moved the ground cable to another bolt


----------



## tinter

Perfect, and you got lucky with the ground.


----------



## rosco61

So I pulled the main jet on my 1332 and it says 102 on the side of the jet. 
My new jet is the .41 which should be larger. new jet = RLV5016	.041	#104
What size is the 102 jet? I don't see the same measurement on the old stock gx390 jet. 
Thanks.


----------



## northeast

For the 1332 the original jet was .0395 I believe. IMO the best performance is had at .042 at 3900 rpm.


----------



## jrom

​


rosco61 said:


> So I pulled the main jet on my 1332 and it says 102 on the side of the jet.
> My new jet is the .41 which should be larger. new jet = RLV5016	.041	#104
> What size is the 102 jet? I don't see the same measurement on the old stock gx390 jet.
> Thanks.


# 102 (1.02 mm, .0402") | 99101-ZH8-1020 | HSS1332A - GX390 Stock
# 105 (1.05 mm, .0413") | 99101-ZH8-1050
# 108 (1.08 mm, .0425") | 99101-ZH8-1080


----------



## jrom

northeast said:


> ...IMO the *best performance is had at .042 at 3900 rpm*.(GX390).


Worth repeating here every several posts.

As always, thanks.


Honda part numbers (99101...) are for OEM jets. #102, #108, etc. is the jet number you can use for aftermarket jets.

# 102 (1.02 mm, .0402") | 99101-ZH8-1020 | HSS1332A - GX390 Stock
# 105 (1.05 mm, .0413") | 99101-ZH8-1050
# 108 (1.08 mm, .0425") | 99101-ZH8-1080


----------



## csonni

The 1080 jet is on back order here until May month. So, I ordered the 1050. According to the listing above, it looks like the 1080 is really what I want (.042). Bummer. Are aftermarket jets just as good as OEM?


----------



## jrom

Yes, that's what everyone's been saying.

For me, aftermarket + shipping is close to the same price as ordering an OEM from my dealer, even with tax.



csonni said:


> ...Are aftermarket jets just as good as OEM?


----------



## drmerdp

northeast said:


> For the 1332 the original jet was .0395 I believe. IMO the best performance is had at .042 at 3900 rpm.


The .042 jet seem to be the right jet for a new to lightly used snow duty gx390. The HS1332 I worked on last, wanted every bit of a .043 jet. But that engine had over a hundred hours on it.


----------



## csonni

I spoke with 3 Honda dealers so far in this part of Canada and all said that particular jet (080) is on back order until May. I may have to go with an aftermarket jet. I really don't want to pay $38 shipping though. Maybe I'll check in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia.


----------



## kirky2126

Karts.ca got the oem jets for $9 each but shipping isn't cheap cost me $18 to ship to NL


----------



## northeast

I purchased the drill bits for 1.80 each.


----------



## csonni

kirky2126 said:


> Karts.ca got the oem jets for $9 each but shipping isn't cheap cost me $18 to ship to NL


That link was a dead end. You must mean: Kart Works Canada , Online Store

Do you know the exact part number for that .042 jet?

I think I found the list here. Just gotta figure out the correct one:

http://www.kartworks.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75_233_169&products_id=723

Looks like they don't carry the 108. Would have to go with the 110 which is a bit larger than we're talking (.0433).


----------



## northeast

Just buy the drill bit.


----------



## CalgaryPT

I sent this company an email about their shipping rates to Canada and they responded that they would recalc based on my small order of 2 jets for my HSS724. I'll update once I get the new price. (I think mine would take a #80 or 0.0315". The stock is a #75 jet).


----------



## csonni

northeast said:


> Just buy the drill bit.


Not into that. If it doesn't work, I'm back to square one. Just as good to buy the real thing....whenever I can find it within a reasonable price.


----------



## RedOctobyr

csonni said:


> Not into that. If it doesn't work, I'm back to square one. Just as good to buy the real thing....whenever I can find it within a reasonable price.


Not telling anyone what to do, just another perspective. 

If you had inexpensive access to more stock-size jets (or at least ones that are too small), you can buy at least 2, and a set of drill bits. Keep opening one jet until the results start getting worse. Then drill the second jet to the best-results size. 

In the US, I've seen carb drill bit sets for ~$10. That tool gives you the ability to buy a single jet, and make it almost any size you want. You can check all the sizes for the cost of drill plus 2 jets. Or 1, frankly, if you started with drilling your stock jet.


----------



## csonni

I'm not sure I want to keep dropping the fuel bowl in trial and error. I do appreciate your advice, though. I suppose you'd have to be careful not to damage the threads on the just when holding it tight in a vice for drilling.


----------



## RedOctobyr

You'd only be removing a few thousandths of an inch of material, presumably from brass. You might not even need a vise, maybe you could just hold the jet?


----------



## jrom

I use a piece of high quality handbag leather to hold small objects, either by hand or in a small vise. I have different size strips or pieces around. I use both full grain (smooth both sides) and top grain (smooth and split sides).



RedOctobyr said:


> You'd only be removing a few thousandths of an inch of material, presumably from brass. You might not even need a vise, maybe you could just hold the jet?


----------



## drmerdp

And if you screw up and go to big, the jet can be soldered closed and redrilled with a smaller bit. 

It looks like ~.002 over stock seems to be a good number. I just changed the jet on my gx390. Went to a .042 for now. Ill bump to .043 as needed. I’ll be listening to how the engine runs as it continues to break in.


----------



## help

Better pictures of sparkpluggs


----------



## csonni

Just got another foot of snow on top of the 8 feet that has already fallen since early November. My HSS1332, I can tell, is desperate for that .042 jet.


----------



## RedOctobyr

No fair rubbing it in. We haven't had much snow down here to clear.


----------



## csonni

I love cranking my new Honda every storm.

I bit the bullet and paid the crazy $38 shipping (US at that) and ordered a .041, .042 and .043 jet from BMI Karts & Parts.

Having said that, it is Priority Mail International which is much faster than regular post (apparently).


----------



## CalgaryPT

I've drilled in the past, but today as at Adventure Honda in Calgary I asked the parts guy if they had them. My stock is #75, so I asked about a #78 and #80. 

$6.99 each, they're supposed to be in Friday. I was surprized as other have said they were tough to bring in. So we'll see.

Does anyone know if this small of a change of jets will require a RPM adjustment??


----------



## Jarsh

From anything I've read, no adjustment required... though some are upping their upper limit. With a 724, you're more than likely going to need the #80. That'll give you 0.002 over your stock #75.


----------



## kirky2126

I upped my rpm on my HSS 724 to 3900 or so only couple min job .. remove the blacket holding the cable to the carb housing (2 10 mil bolts) then u can get access to the adjustment screw . You can keep the rubber connected to the bracket and just pull it back out of your way


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

csonni said:


> I bit the bullet and paid the crazy $38 shipping (US at that) and ordered a .041, .042 and .043 jet from BMI Karts & Parts.
> 
> Having said that, it is Priority Mail International which is much faster than regular post (apparently).


Adding your location in your profile under the "User CP" at the top right of the page would be helpful in understanding the price. IMHO


----------



## CalgaryPT

I think you are correct @Jarsh. The #80 will work best.

I plan to keep the #75 as backup, and play with the #78. I can drill out if needed, but I found years ago that trying to drill say a #78 to an #82 is easier than drilling a #80 to a #82. I think you need enough brass for the drill bit to bite into to be accurate.


----------



## grump99

Can anyone help with adjusting the upper RPM on my HSS 1332? I can find an adjustment screw for idle speed, but not for full throttle. The only thing I can find in the service manual is instructions about adjusting the governor arm (don't really want to mess with this if possible). Is this the only way to adjust high RPM? I'm only running about 50 RPM low, but would like to get it to 3500. Would re-jetting help with the RPM?

Thank you


----------



## kirky2126

grump99 said:


> Can anyone help with adjusting the upper RPM on my HSS 1332? I can find an adjustment screw for idle speed, but not for full throttle. The only thing I can find in the service manual is instructions about adjusting the governor arm (don't really want to mess with this if possible). Is this the only way to adjust high RPM? I'm only running about 50 RPM low, but would like to get it to 3500. Would re-jetting help with the RPM?
> 
> Thank you


On my HSS 724 the procedure I used ( not sure if it's the same for the 1332) remove the cable holder that's on the back of the filter housing . You can keep the rubber attached . With the holder out of the way you'll see a half moon opening it the bottom inside the adjusting screw is about 3-4" deep .. but easy to get to . I took the battery cover off for easier access


----------



## RIT333

It amazes me when I read that people are re-jetting a practically brand new $3K+ piece of equipment while it is still under warranty. I guess I value the warranty that comes with my purchases. If it is not performing up to what you expect, then I would screaming bloody murder to my dealer, or Honda. Or, have you asked Honda before you re-jetted the machine ? If so, then ignore my comments !


----------



## RedOctobyr

Is there a reason that re-jetting should change your high-throttle RPM? I would expect that to be controlled by the governor, and unrelated to jet size.


----------



## DriverRider

RedOctobyr said:


> Is there a reason that re-jetting should change your high-throttle RPM? I would expect that to be controlled by the governor, and unrelated to jet size.


A governor holds the throttle plate to a defined opening and thus a preset RPM. Less than optimal compression, ignition or mixture settings will affect how efficient the air entering the engine passing by the throttle plate is used for the combustion process, with ideal settings delivering maximum RPM.

If an engine governor is set to 3450 with a slightly lean mixture the throttle plate opening is defined for those settings. If mixture settings are then increased to optimum the combustion process becomes more efficient gaining RPM which would need a governor adjustment closing throttle ever so slightly to get back down to 3450.


----------



## CalgaryPT

I get your comments @RIT333. And appreciate that nothing should have to be done; in fact in my case my 724 has never clogged. For me I like to tinker with my toys and have always enjoyed doing modifications because I learn from doing them. Perhaps I have been lucky my entire life, but from cars to power equipment, machinery and tools, I have yet to damage anything and void a warranty. I worked in the patent industry for years and still build patent prototypes now that I am retired. I've seen that a lot of the modifications people do can lead to new inventions.

Not that this is the case here....I just enjoy the tinkering 

My poor dad used to lock up new stuff he brought home because if I got ahold of it I'd take it apart when I was little.


----------



## Dannoman

This is interesting. I wonder if I could rejet the fixed carb on my old Tecumseh - and what size would be ideal to drill it to. It pops a bit so that could mean it's running a bit lean...


----------



## Marlow

RIT333 said:


> It amazes me when I read that people are re-jetting a practically brand new $3K+ piece of equipment while it is still under warranty. I guess I value the warranty that comes with my purchases. If it is not performing up to what you expect, then I would screaming bloody murder to my dealer, or Honda. Or, have you asked Honda before you re-jetted the machine ? If so, then ignore my comments !


$3k is nothing. People mod million dollar cars that are still under warranty! There's always room to improve anything for those that are so inclined. As the saying goes "much craves more".


----------



## RedOctobyr

DriverRider said:


> A governor holds the throttle plate to a defined opening and thus a preset RPM. Less than optimal compression, ignition or mixture settings will affect how efficient the air entering the engine passing by the throttle plate is used for the combustion process, with ideal settings delivering maximum RPM.
> 
> If an engine governor is set to 3450 with a slightly lean mixture the throttle plate opening is defined for those settings. If mixture settings are then increased to optimum the combustion process becomes more efficient gaining RPM which would need a governor adjustment closing throttle ever so slightly to get back down to 3450.


I get what you're saying, but I guess part of me is still not quite seeing it that way. 

How are the Honda governors set? I haven't owned Hondas, but I set the governor on my Tecumseh a few years ago. Going by memory, with the engine off, you move the governor arm to the low RPM position, and hold the throttle plate fully-open, then lock them together, to kind of set the governor's range of motion. Then start it, and adjust a screw to set your high-speed RPM. 

The governor's job is to deal with a widely-varying load, while maintaining RPM. So it's supposed to be able to automatically set a wide range of throttle plate positions, with everything from no-load, to clearing-deep-heavy-snow, in order to maintain the same RPM. 

Like I said, I'm not dismissing what you're saying, and unfortunately I no longer have adjustable-jet machines, to let me test this for to myself. I guess it just seems like if the governor is supposed to hold, say, 3500 RPMs whether it's just sitting in the driveway, or going fast through 18" of snow, then it should also be able to compensate for jetting. That varying load can require anywhere from 1hp (hypothetical) to 9hp from a 9hp engine, to hold 3500 RPM. Whereas a jetting change will likely not be a 9X difference in power-per-volume-of-fuel-air-mixture. 

I guess the closest I could get to simulating this for myself would be to watch my tach as I go from no-choke to 1 click of choke. 

I agree 100% that if this was a non-governed engine, like a chainsaw, you would absolutely see different full-throttle RPMs as you adjusted the carb's High needle. It just seems less obvious to me for a governed engine. 

Sorry for a slight tangent from the topic, and I'm happy to learn if I'm simply thinking about this wrong.


----------



## RedOctobyr

Dannoman said:


> This is interesting. I wonder if I could rejet the fixed carb on my old Tecumseh - and what size would be ideal to drill it to. It pops a bit so that could mean it's running a bit lean...


A simple approach might be to look up your carb's part number, and see if there is an eBay adjustable-jet version. Sometimes you can get one that will let you tweak this with just a twist of a screw. 

Of course, a first step of cleaning your carb is a logical place to begin. I had a Generac generator which apparently ran a bit on the lean-side from the factory, so Honda is not the only case where they have come set rather lean. But if you haven't cleaned yours yet, you could also simply be running lean from it being slightly dirty. That's a free fix, if it worked. 

Or, if you can find the stock jet size, maybe there are larger ones available. Or you could buy a replacement or two of the stock size, and slowly drill them larger.


----------



## drmerdp

Marlow said:


> RIT333 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It amazes me when I read that people are re-jetting a practically brand new $3K+ piece of equipment while it is still under warranty. I guess I value the warranty that comes with my purchases. If it is not performing up to what you expect, then I would screaming bloody murder to my dealer, or Honda. Or, have you asked Honda before you re-jetted the machine ? If so, then ignore my comments !
> 
> 
> 
> $3k is nothing. People mod million dollar cars that are still under warranty! There's always room to improve anything for those that are so inclined. As the saying goes "much craves more".
Click to expand...

I just spent the last two days working on a brand new z06 Vette. 

Long tube headers w/ x pipe.
Intake upgrade
Ati balancer with 20% overdrive pulley for supercharger
Lingenfelter tune.

Warranty smorrenty.


----------



## ThumperACC

RIT333 said:


> It amazes me when I read that people are re-jetting a practically brand new $3K+ piece of equipment while it is still under warranty. I guess I value the warranty that comes with my purchases. If it is not performing up to what you expect, then I would screaming bloody murder to my dealer, or Honda. Or, have you asked Honda before you re-jetted the machine ? If so, then ignore my comments !


Honda is required to follow the law for EPA emissions, their dealers are required to follow the law for EPA emissions. We, as owners of the equipment are not, hence we can rejet for performance instead of emissions.

Therefore you can go scream bloody murder at your dealer and phone Honda until you are blue in the face, but the are both going to tell you (hopefully politely) to go pound sand.

Also, some have asked their dealers if rejetting affects the warranty and were told it does not. Finally, with the new jet, the machine runs better so nobody would notice.

Given all of the above and the fact that it is a very low risk procedure which is very simply reversed, some of us have chosen to spend $10 and give ourselves the performance that the machine should have but Honda (and their dealers) cannot lawfully provide.

ThumperACC


----------



## grump99

Thank you[/quote]

On my HSS 724 the procedure I used ( not sure if it's the same for the 1332) remove the cable holder that's on the back of the filter housing . You can keep the rubber attached . With the holder out of the way you'll see a half moon opening it the bottom inside the adjusting screw is about 3-4" deep .. but easy to get to . I took the battery cover off for easier access[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the tip. I will check it out when I have a chance. Can anyone with a HSS 1332 chime in? Is there an adjuster screw for high RPM? Thanks.


----------



## DriverRider

RedOctobyr said:


> I get what you're saying, but I guess part of me is still not quite seeing it that way.
> 
> How are the Honda governors set? I haven't owned Hondas, but I set the governor on my Tecumseh a few years ago. Going by memory, with the engine off, you move the governor arm to the low RPM position, and hold the throttle plate fully-open, then lock them together, to kind of set the governor's range of motion. Then start it, and adjust a screw to set your high-speed RPM.
> Like I said, I'm not dismissing what you're saying, and unfortunately I no longer have adjustable-jet machines, to let me test this for to myself. I guess it just seems like if the governor is supposed to hold, say, 3500 RPMs whether it's just sitting in the driveway, or going fast through 18" of snow, then it should also be able to compensate for jetting.


That is an initial setting to get proper range of motion which gets you in the ballpark for the governor to work on the throttle linkage. Final setting is always done via a spring which is adjusted tighter or looser against the governor arm to a point either by a screw or bending a tab or the throttle lever itself. From the governor arm is the linkage which goes to the carb butterfly.

Engine settings determine how efficient an engine will run. What happens if you get bad gas and fouled spark plugs in an engine does the power and RPM stay the same, no, you mash down more on the car gas pedal making up for the lack of engine efficiency or keep your foot on the pedal so it won't stall out. If engine settings/operating parameters did not change how an engine behaves, nobody would ever know they had a bad running engine.

The engine governor arm is simply a mechanical device that wants to move or pull in a direction more the faster the engine turns and is not a "smart" device which will compensate for improper mixtures, faulty spark plugs, bad gas or loss of compression.

The governor is a fixed setting to the carburetor for a given set of engine operating parameters, change the parameters whether it be compression, mixtures or spark and you bias the fixed setting one way or the other.


----------



## csonni

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Adding your location in your profile under the "User CP" at the top right of the page would be helpful in understanding the price. IMHO


Done. Thanks.


----------



## csonni

Another 6 inches coming tonight and up to 2 feet more in the middle of next week. I've got 13 hours on the Honda now. I may do the oil change after this next storm. I know they say 20 hrs. but a bit early can't hurt. Hope my jets get here soon. Just itching to see the difference.


----------



## csonni

Just cleaned up today before the next one comes.


----------



## YSHSfan

csonni said:


> Just cleaned up today before the next one comes.










Now that is snow..........!!!


----------



## Jatoxico

csonni said:


> Just cleaned up today before the next one comes.


C'Mon! What do you even need a snowblower for?! :icon_whistling:


----------



## YSHSfan

CalgaryPT said:


> My poor dad used to lock up new stuff he brought home because if I got ahold of it I'd take it apart when I was little.


I grew up doing just some of that...... :icon-hgtg: 
I guess I am a bit of a tinker as well

I believe that there is a saying that goes something like that _"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."_


----------



## tabora

csonni said:


> I've got 13 hours on the Honda now. I may do the oil change after this next storm. I know they say 20 hrs. but a bit early can't hurt.


Yes, it can... If you replace the break-in oil too early, the process will not complete.

From a mechanic: "If you fail to follow this procedure [the full break-in period], the piston rings may never seat."

Great article on engine break-in: http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm


----------



## csonni

tabora said:


> Yes, it can... If you replace the break-in oil too early, the process will not complete.
> 
> From a mechanic: "If you fail to follow this procedure [the full break-in period], the piston rings may never seat."
> 
> Great article on engine break-in: New Engine Break-in Procedure


Excellent summary! Thanks for sharing that. Good stuff.


----------



## csonni

A brief write up on all our snow.

Dealing with the dump: Happy Valley-Goose Bay running out of space for all the snow - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News


----------



## Marlow

Ok, so I put a new jet in and put the bowl back on. Now when I turn the fuel on it's leaking bad. The fuel is dripping off the nut just below the blue mark on the pic below. What did I do wrong? The gasket for the carb seems to be perfectly intact..


----------



## JnC

Thats the sediment bowl with the blue mark, not sure why it would be leaking from there as to replace the jet you just need to remove the main bowl. 

If its getting out of the sediment bowl then just remove the sediment bowl, check the gasket, apply some petroleum gel on it, replace it, apply a thin layer of petroleum gel on the lip of the sediment bowl and tighten it back up, making sure not to cross thread.


----------



## Marlow

I didn't touch the sediment bowl at all. Just the carb bowl. Its hard to pinpoint exactly where the fuel is escaping, but it is running off the nut on that sediment bowl.


----------



## vmax29

Could it be the gasket at the top of the float bowl picked up a bit of debris if you set it down. I would drain it. Clean it off good and try to re seat it again.


----------



## northeast

Make sure you did not bend the rim of the bowl.


----------



## Marlow

I've taken it off and put it back on a few times. Everything looks good to my untrained eye. When the bucket is flat to the ground it's ok. When I lift the bucket it starts pouring out.


----------



## Marlow

vmax29 said:


> Could it be the gasket at the top of the float bowl picked up a bit of debris if you set it down. I would drain it. Clean it off good and try to re seat it again.


The gasket did not come off with the float bowl. It stayed up in place.


----------



## superbuick

Wonder if anyone can help me - I'm STUMPED. I'll start off that I know my way around engines well enough so I dont THINK im missing anything obvious...

Got my new 36 Jet in the mail for my GX270 today, pulled the bowl, pulled the stock Jet (it was an 85 for anyone wondering) and put in the new 36 Jet. Of note, the new jets were slightly different (the threads are lower on the jet than the stock jet) but it went in easy enough. Put the bowl back on, turned the fuel on, fired it up (ran great) and then noticed fuel dribbling all out of the carb bowl at the top, as if it were spilling over the edges. Odd. Tightened the bowl to make sure I wasn't missing anything - still leaking.

Swapped back in the stock jet thinking maybe that was part of the issue (the aforementioned threads) and its STILL leaking. 

I'm totally stumped. The blower is brand new. Could the bowl gasket/o-ring go bad from being loosed and retightened one time? Is there a tiny O-ring inside the jet tube that fell out and I didnt know it/see it? (parts diagrams dont show one).

I REALLY dont want to load this thing up and take it to the dealer because #1 its annoying and time consuming, and #2 I'm not ready to admit defeat that easily!

Thoughts???


----------



## northeast

It’s one of 2 things. You either bent the rim on the bowl or the gasket is not seated right, damaged, or debris. That’s all it could be.


----------



## Marlow

**** that's two of us back to back springing leaks!

Superbuick, does your leak even when the bucket is down? Mine is only leaking when i tilt up the bucket.


----------



## superbuick

northeast said:


> It’s one of 2 things. You either bent the rim on the bowl or the gasket is not seated right, damaged, or debris. That’s all it could be.


Definitely not a bent rim on the bowl - I didnt use any force at all. The gasket is seated properly (ive checked it about 348 times at this point lol) and I can't see damage.

Marlow - it leaks once fuel is turned on and the bowl fills up - it comes out the top and doesn't stop.

The lack of stopping makes me think the needle isnt seating, but that wasn't touched! I pulled it and checked it anyways, and it seems to be functioning perfectly. 

Being that this isnt my first rodeo I'm totally and utterly stumped. I've probably opened up 300 carbs in my life by this point!


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## YSHSfan

Sounds like the bowl/gasket are not properly seated to me. I’d remove it an reinstall it making 100% sure that the bowl is properly sitted and the gasket is not kinked...


----------



## Marlow

I am going to try replacing the gasket tomorrow, hopefully the dealer has them on hand. In my case, it must be escaping through the carb bowl gasket(though that's not clearly visible to me exactly where it's coming out) and flowing down the outside of the sediment bowl because like I said I did not touch the sediment bowl. If that doesn't do it I'll call the repair guy.


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## YSHSfan

I’d take it apart one more time. Take the gasket out, inspect it. If it is not damaged, reinstall the bowl and gasket as careful as possible making sure both are properly aligned. If it is damaged, you’ll need a replacement


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## Marlow

Thanks. Not sure how I damaged it, if I did. Everything went smoothly taking off the bowl. Oh well, live and learn.


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## vmax29

Ok I remember in the manual it states that the bowl needs to be clocked properly or the float hangs up. That might explain why the gas keeps on coming. There is an image in the manual for it. I’m out or I would send a pic.

Hope that helps.


----------



## jeffNB

This is a great thread and I plan to do some careful drilling of my jet at some point in the future. 

After reading all of the threads, I seriously doubt that a 928 is producing 9 horsepower _as we would assume_. In fact, none of the Honda literature - be it marketing information on their website, the owner's manual, or the service manual - specifies the the output of the engine. Do you suppose that Honda has omitted this specification because they have leaned out the A/F mixture to meet emissions and the engine output has been derated? 

Maybe a more truthful nomenclature would be 27028 or 39032. 

If feels like it is the early 1970's when Detroit continued to derate engine outputs year-by-year because of emissions controls. 

I note that the Yamaha sales literature does specify the engine output.

Jeff


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## vmax29

Marlow from looking at your picture again that thumbscrew should spin counter clockwise a bit to about 45° off the little catch bowl if I’m not mistaken.


----------



## jrom

Unless we can find a gasket by itself, I can only see a gasket set (I counted 6) for $10.61 at hondapartsnation, $12.47 @ PartsPak.com and my local dealer sells it for $15.25 + tax. I'm traveling tonight and the weekend so I won't have time to call tomorrow to see if they sell a seperate one. Maybe someone can track one down.

I personally would like to have an extra one around anyway.

GASKET SET
16010-ZE2-A20

$10.61: https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/p/honda_power_equipment/16010-ze2-a20/gasket-set

$12.47: Honda 16010-ZE2-A20 Gasket Set; 16010ZE2A20

My dealer: $15.25: https://www.fergusonlawn.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/s/HONPE//16010-ZE2-A20/1/


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## gormleyflyer2002

float or float needle is stuck open


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## superbuick

Checked again it is definitely not the bowl gasket - its seated perfectly.

Can someone post the picture showing the "clocking" of the bowl? I thought I put it as it should be (common sense says that the pushed out part of the bowl should go under the float arm point, but maybe im missing the exact alignment?)

Marlow - my leak is the same as yours - it drips off of the shutuff valve, but its coming from the top of the bowl and just running down there.

This is mind-bogglingly annoying. I miss my two-strokes!


----------



## superbuick

vmax29 said:


> Ok I remember in the manual it states that the bowl needs to be clocked properly or the float hangs up. That might explain why the gas keeps on coming. There is an image in the manual for it. I’m out or I would send a pic.
> 
> Hope that helps.


I would greatly appreciate if you could post a pic when you get a chance! Thanks!


----------



## Marlow

vmax29 said:


> Marlow from looking at your picture again that thumbscrew should spin counter clockwise a bit to about 45° off the little catch bowl if I’m not mistaken.



I was just out and took the bowl off again, took the float off and took the gasket off. The gasket is not hurt. I put the gasket back in insuring it was properly seated. I also made sure the rim of the bowl sat flat on a table with no warps, that was fine. It's still leaking the same. I definitely don't have it clocked properly so maybe(hopefully) that is the issue. I'll have to check it out tomorrow morning. Just washed all the gas off myself and now it's time for some beer! lol


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## vmax29

Here you go...

The diagram is looking up from underneath if it’s not clear.


----------



## drmerdp

jeffNB said:


> This is a great thread and I plan to do some careful drilling of my jet at some point in the future.
> 
> After reading all of the threads, I seriously doubt that a 928 is producing 9 horsepower _as we would assume_. In fact, none of the Honda literature - be it marketing information on their website, the owner's manual, or the service manual - specifies the the output of the engine. Do you suppose that Honda has omitted this specification because they have leaned out the A/F mixture to meet emissions and the engine output has been derated?
> 
> Maybe a more truthful nomenclature would be 27028 or 39032.
> 
> If feels like it is the early 1970's when Detroit continued to derate engine outputs year-by-year because of emissions controls.
> 
> I note that the Yamaha sales literature does specify the engine output.
> 
> Jeff


The Honda engines website has specifications for engine hp and torque. The “9” and “13” is now used strictly as an engine identifier. They used to claim these numbers as actual hp, then new sae measurement standards were adopted.

9 is the gx270 8.5hp 14.1ft-lbs

13 is gx390 11.7hp 19.5ft-lbs

Whether or not the numbers are accurate for snow duty engines is anyones guess.


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## ticolaq

Marlow
look at the message of Vmax29 you will see that your tank is not oriented as it should!
Check this is very important!


----------



## YSHSfan

ticolaq said:


> Marlow
> look at the message of Vmax29 you will see that your tank is not oriented as it should!
> Check this is very important!


+1

Marlow










vmax29


----------



## Marlow

ticolaq said:


> Marlow
> look at the message of Vmax29 you will see that your tank is not oriented as it should!
> Check this is very important!


I know, refer to post #333.


----------



## ticolaq

marlow 
Look at the position of the Bowl ! 
the Post is 333 and also that of YSHSfan , the post 337 the picture shows that your Bowl does not support correctly !!


----------



## Marlow

ticolaq said:


> marlow
> Look at the position of the Bowl !
> the Post is 333 and also that of YSHSfan , the post 337 the picture shows that your Bowl does not support correctly !!


Yes I know, what I mean is in post 333 I stated it wasn't clocked properly and I would work at it this morning. So now it is set in the proper position and unfortunately it's still leaking.. It runs perfectly but leaks when I tilt the bucket up.


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## ticolaq

Marlow
Then your bolle must be slightly deformed!
press it on a very straight surface, to see if there is a slight deformation?
I do not see anything else than that !!
Good Luck !


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## Marlow

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually already did that and there's no deformations.


----------



## RIT333

cket up.


Marlow said:


> It runs perfectly but leaks when I tilt the bucket up.


I have a solution that you are not going to like...don't tilt the bucket up ! Or, when you need to, turn off the gas, and you can get it repaired when it is in the shop for the Honda chute recall ! LOL


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## TomHodge

Marlow, when you took the float off, did the needle valve (or what ever that part is called) fall out?


----------



## Marlow

TomHodge said:


> Marlow, when you took the float off, did the needle valve (or what ever that part is called) fall out?


I never took the float off originally. Just removed the bowl replaced the jet then put the bowl back on. It was leaking. I only took the float off after the fact to give better access when re seating the gasket. That valve did not fall out.


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## tadawson

It certainly acts as if the float level is way too high though . . . . you may be leaking through the bowl vent, and not a gasket . . .


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## northeast

Marlow I bent the rim on one of mine. If you look back through the thread you will see where I cautioned everybody about it. The bowls are very flimsy and easy to distort. Mine was out just a tiny bit but it leaked when I tilted the machine. I fixed it myself using a flat punch and a piece of granite countertop. It was very difficult to see the distortion but it was there when I really looked. The part is about 25 bucks if you don't want to fix it.


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## RedOctobyr

Can you help improve the seal around the bowl, as a test? Maybe wrapping a few layers of Teflon tape around the top of the bowl before installing it, something like that?

If you want to try and distinguish a needle valve problem, from a bowl seal problem, is there a fuel shutoff that you can close? That would help keep additional fuel from entering the bowl as you tip the machine. Maybe "simulating" better needle valve performance.


----------



## Marlow

RedOctobyr said:


> If you want to try and distinguish a needle valve problem, from a bowl seal problem, is there a fuel shutoff that you can close? That would help keep additional fuel from entering the bowl as you tip the machine. Maybe "simulating" better needle valve performance.


It doesn't leak when the fuel is switched off.


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## csonni

This whole thing is kind of making me rethink whether I really want to mess with my jet at all.


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## FullThrottle

Marlow is this any help determining if anything fill out during your jet-install.



Marlow said:


> It doesn't leak when the fuel is switched off.


image_025.jpg


----------



## drmerdp

csonni said:


> This whole thing is kind of making me rethink whether I really want to mess with my jet at all.


Its a really easy procedure. Kinda hard to mess it up... Take your time, look closely at what you are doing, and concentrate on the task.

-Dont try to swap jets with the lower shield in place. 3 fasteners and its off giving you plenty of room.

-Obvious precaution is to identify how the bowl is oriented. Take a picture if you need to.

-Turn off gas valve and drain carb bowl with the valve. Loosening the bowl retaining bolt will spill some additional gas, be ready with a rag. The bowl gasket will likely remain in the channel of the carburetor. If it does, make sure it is fully in place and no small portion fell out of its groove.

-Do Not Drop the Bowl. As an additional precaution you can place a few towels down for a soft landing incase you feel you might have butter fingers.

-Dont remove the float and needle. Its Not necessary.

-Use a proper flat head screwdriver for the jet. The shank and tip should be straight! NOT like this craftsman flathead. Make sure the tip of the screwdriver fits the new jet before removing the old one. It will be tight, you dont want to damage the brass.

-The jet holds the emulsion tube in place. It may or may not fall out of the carb when the jet is removed. Be ready incase it does.

-Do not over tighten the new jet. The idea is to seat the jet, then a small additional rotation to snug it. Loosen and re-snug it a couple times, you'll understand what feels right. 

-Double check the bowl gasket is in its groove. Place the bowl into place, and start the retaining bolt. Make sure the washer is still on the bolt. 

-Align the bowl as previously noted, and hold up into place. Then finger tighten the retaining bolt. Now snug the retaining bolt. Do not over tighten, this is once again a "feel" thing. The oring will compress and the bowl with distort slightly and thats tight enough.

-Turn on the fuel valve and look for leaks. Wait until you are certain that there are no leaks before reinstalling the shield.

Piece of cake.


----------



## RedOctobyr

Marlow said:


> It doesn't leak when the fuel is switched off.


Then that sounds to me like it's related to the needle valve, your float height, or a combination of the two. 

And that it is presumably not leaking past the bowl's o-ring, but from somewhere else instead.


----------



## Marlow

RedOctobyr said:


> Marlow said:
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't leak when the fuel is switched off.
> 
> 
> 
> Then that sounds to me like it's related to the needle valve, your float height, or a combination of the two.
Click to expand...

I am not sure about that. To me the reason why it doesn't leak when the fuel is switched off is because there is no fuel entering the carb anymore, hence nothing in there to leak.


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## Marlow

drmerdp said:


> Its a really easy procedure. Kinda hard to mess it up...


It was quite easy for at least 3 of us in this thread to mess up. And I was careful, everything went smoothly. I wouldn't let our experiences deter anybody though.


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## RedOctobyr

Marlow said:


> I am not sure about that. To me the reason why it doesn't leak when the fuel is switched off is because there is no fuel entering the carb anymore, hence nothing in there to leak.


Well, the needle valve and float control the flow of fuel into the carb bowl. 

Closing the fuel shutoff kind of simulates a perfect needle valve & float combo that know not to let anything else in after the bowl fills. 

I'm assuming that you let the bowl fill, then closed the valve, tilted, and checked for leaks. And that when you say tilting the machine, you're talking about pushing down on the handles, like to turn. Not standing the machine up on its nose, on the bucket. 

Mine aren't Hondas, but I wouldn't expect dripping when tilting during normal operation.


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## Marlow

RedOctobyr said:


> Well, the needle valve and float control the flow of fuel into the carb bowl.


Yes, that's why when the fuel is switched off it doesn't leak as there is no more fuel flowing in to the bowl. So that's functioning as it should.



RedOctobyr said:


> I'm assuming that you let the bowl fill, then closed the valve, tilted, and checked for leaks. And that when you say tilting the machine, you're talking about pushing down on the handles, like to turn. Not standing the machine up on its nose, on the bucket.


With the fuel on, the bowl fills and it only leaks when the bucket is tilted up. When I shut the fuel off, it stops leaking after a coupe of seconds. Honda's have a hydraulic bucket that you can tilt up and down with a thumb lever. When the snowblower is level, it doesn't leak. When I tilt it, that's when it starts to spill out.



RedOctobyr said:


> Mine aren't Hondas, but I wouldn't expect dripping when tilting during normal operation.


Of course not. This is the issue I am trying to clear up.

The bowl can't be sealing properly. I'll get a new one and a new gasket and hopefully that'll do the trick.


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## tonysak

The fuel cut off is an on/off valve between the tank and the carb. 

Try taking it down and cleaning it with a rag. Maybe its the allignment, maybe the bolt needs to be a smidge tighter, maybe the the carb drain orientation needs to be adjusted so the black snow cover isn't inadvertently pressing up against the drain valve cause a loose seal. It's really simple, so unless you were rough with the bowl and stepped on it, don't over think it.


----------



## superbuick

I can confirm that "clocking" the bowl according to the manual guide posted fixed the leak. I can also confirm that if the position of the bowl is clearly so critically important to where it will pour gas out if not within 2 degrees of the manual specified position, having a perfectly round bowl with no notch or indicator as to the correct position is very very stupid on the part of Honda


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## tonysak

I saw the notch on mine, figured it was allignment. I made the drain position be in the same place as I took it off. Sounds you guy guys are all set then. Id try making it tighter before I get a new one.


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## RedOctobyr

Hopefully the new bowl & gasket fix it! 

What I was trying to get at was to isolate whether your leak is from: 

1) fuel already in the bowl, which is leaking past the gasket (tested by filling the bowl, closing the fuel shutoff, and tilting).
or
2) additional fuel entering the bowl as you tilt the machine (tested by leaving the fuel shutoff open, and tilting). Which would cause me to take a closer look at the needle valve, seat, and float. 

If it were me, I'd probably check a few things, at least if the new bowl & gasket don't fix it: 
- remove the bowl, and with a container under the carb, open the fuel shutoff, then push the float up. See if the fuel flow stops (ideally, see if it stops when the float is at the proper height, not just when it's pushed up all the way). I expect it will stop, as you aren't getting constant leaks even with the machine level, which could be caused by the needle valve never sealing. 
- check the float height, as well as (ideally) whether the float itself is dry and empty. If it's sitting a little low for some reason (either the height is wrong, or it has fuel in it), that could make leaks more likely, due to the fuel level in the bowl being higher than normal. 

As an aside, if alignment is that critical, making a narrow Sharpie mark from the carb to the bowl, before disassembly, might help with getting them lined up the same way again during re-assembly.


----------



## drmerdp

> If it were me, I'd probably check a few things, at least if the new bowl & gasket don't fix it:
> - remove the bowl, and with a container under the carb, open the fuel shutoff, then push the float up. See if the fuel flow stops


Finger pressure will almost certainly be enough to stop the flow. When Im checking a needle and seat i use a 12" piece of bailing wire to push up on the float. Not very scientific but its a good way to limit the pressure to something more similar to the force the fuel is applying to the float.

Regardless, i'd be stunned if the needle went bad. These are new machines. There must be something simple getting overlooked.


----------



## RedOctobyr

Sorry, probably while you were writing, I edited my post to propose trying to hold the float at the proper height (whatever that is), while checking for fuel flow. Agreed that if you just push up "hard", it will almost certainly stop the flow by mashing the needle valve, which reduces the usefulness of the test. 

Good idea using something with some flex, as a way to help ensure you only push a little bit!


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## vmax29

You can remove the bowl and get a small container to hold inderneath. Turn the fuel switch on and move the float gently up and down. It should stop the fuei coming in when the float is raised up. If not then there is something wrong with the needle valve or seat. Other than that it’s something hanging the float up (clocking?) causing the fuel to overflow or a damaged o-ring on one of the sealing surfaces or the drain. 

Glad orienting the cup worked to fix Superbuick’s leak.


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## Marlow

It is 100% flowing out of the seal. The only problem is it's not sealing right. There is nothing more to it. The bowl fills up and stops as it should which is why it doesn't leak when the bucket is down. Must be a slightly warped bowl or I am not aligning it perfectly but based on the illustrations posted I think I am. Can anybody else post picture of it's positioning? Maybe I am seeing the other picture at the wrong angle or something..


----------



## RedOctobyr

I don't know how the change process works exactly on these engines. But is it possible that something isn't fully screwed-in (or similar), and is preventing the bowl from being pushed tightly against against the gasket? 

Maybe you're tightening the nut that holds the bowl to the carb, but the bowl is being stopped by something, and can't move all the way to seat properly against the carb? 

It seems odd that you wouldn't be able to get a good seal with a good gasket, and a bowl that appears flat. If you have feeler gauges, could you see if a 0.001"-thick gage can fit anywhere between the tightened bowl and the carb, for instance? 

Alternately, you could tighten the bowl with something already laid between the bowl and carb (a feeler gauge, a narrow strip of tin foil, etc), then see if you can pull the item out from between them. Just same way to help understand if you're still somehow dealing with a small gap as the gasket. 

One gap location is enough for a leak, but hypothetically if there was a gap in multiple places, then that might be less consistent with a warped bowl. And if so, maybe something might be visible to help explain it the gap. 

Sorry if this is a dumb question based on the geometry of the bowl and carb. If they are in flat contact with each other (a face seal), squeezing the gasket between them, this may be practical. But if they use a radial seal (like the bowl fits around the outside of a raised ridge on the carb), you may not be able to pull something out anyhow, because the item would be bent & creased where the bowl and carb join, so it might be tough to pull out even if there *was* a small gap.


----------



## CalgaryPT

RedOctobyr said:


> I don't know how the change process works exactly on these engines. But is it possible that something isn't fully screwed-in (or similar), and is preventing the bowl from being pushed tightly against against the gasket?
> 
> Maybe you're tightening the nut that holds the bowl to the carb, but the bowl is being stopped by something, and can't move all the way to seat properly against the carb?
> .


This thread sounds like several similar nightmares I have had with carbs, Honda, MTDs and others. Those gaskets are flimsy. I always try to have a spare or two around. The other mistake I've made is removing the bowl when it is really cold. When the gasket warms up, it often does not fit again. 

Funny how something that seems so simple can be such a PITA.


----------



## ThumperACC

Marlow said:


> It is 100% flowing out of the seal. The only problem is it's not sealing right. There is nothing more to it. The bowl fills up and stops as it should which is why it doesn't leak when the bucket is down. Must be a slightly warped bowl or I am not aligning it perfectly but based on the illustrations posted I think I am. Can anybody else post picture of it's positioning? Maybe I am seeing the other picture at the wrong angle or something..


As for orientation, the drain valve on the bowl is directly to the rear of the machine.

When I did mine, the first time I put the bowl back, it was not properly seated in the recess of the casting and was a little cocked. I noticed something 'felt wrong' and didn't tighten it down. If I had, I would have distorted the gasket mating surface of the bowl. Is it possible you did this? You've checked the top of the bowl on a perfectly flat surface to be sure it is not distorted?

Hope some of this helps,
Thumper


----------



## csonni

So, would making an alignment mark on the bowl and the carb body before removal guarantee the correct clocking? I would say.

Oops, I see that suggested above by RedOctobyr.


----------



## YSHSfan

csonni said:


> So, would making an alignment mark on the bowl and the carb body before removal guarantee the correct clocking? I would say.
> 
> Oops, I see that suggested above by RedOctobyr.


It is definitely a good reminder. I’ve taken a few Honda carbs apart and never really paid attention to the float bowl orientation. So, marking it is definitely a good suggestion along with a good picture of it.


----------



## Marlow

csonni said:


> So, would making an alignment mark on the bowl and the carb body before removal guarantee the correct clocking? I would say.


Seems these carbs are extremely fussy about the bowl being aligned perfectly, so yes definitely mark it so you'll at least know that won't ever be the cause of an issue.


----------



## feh

Whomever does this procedure successfully next time, should document it with some pictures for the sake of the rest. It literally takes ten minutes, from draining the gas from the bowl to firing it up for testing.


----------



## TomHodge

Is the new jet the same length as the stock jet? Perhaps the emulsion tube dropped down a bit. Either would make th bowl not seat completely. The float and needle seem to work properly, but, when the engine is tilted it leaks.


----------



## Jarsh

Hey guys, noticed some are having difficulty in reinstalling the carb bowl. This is a video from YT that I picked up on a while back. It's a maintenance video on a 622 but the part pertaining to the carb bowl, I think, would go for all Honda GX carbs. Fast forward to around the 26 minute mark + -. Hope it may be of some help to you.


----------



## csonni

Nice, informative vid.


----------



## superbuick

Jarsh said:


> Hey guys, noticed some are having difficulty in reinstalling the carb bowl. This is a video from YT that I picked up on a while back. It's a maintenance video on a 622 but the part pertaining to the carb bowl, I think, would go for all Honda GX carbs. Fast forward to around the 26 minute mark + -. Hope it may be of some help to you.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwOdZjI9HPk




Thank you Jarsh.

For me installing the jet and bowl was of no difficulty - one of the easiest I've dealt with. It was the alignment of the bowl with absolutely no indicators of where it needed to be that was causing all the frustration.

Mechanically this is an extremely simple job. The detail of getting the perfectly round bowl indexed at the exact right degree is important, and not obvious without this conversation (the bump on the bowl for the drain valve doesn't even line up directly below the float arm, which is what my simple mind would have thought!)

Get the bowl indexed properly, and you won't have leaking issues from the needle staying open.


----------



## bigtim1985

I just changed the jet out on my HSS928AT yesterday. I followed your guys advice and marked the bowl/carb with a sharpie before dropping the bowl. Takes all the guesswork out. No leaks.


----------



## CalgaryPT

Great vid. Thanks. Vacuum testing a carb is a good idea before installation rather than just throwing it on and hoping it works.

Blow off plugs after using a wire wheel though. Nasty little wires can get trapped in there and come out in your cylinder. Nasty, nasty business.


----------



## Jarsh

I'm always in the habit of doing bookmarks on the fly with anything that may be of interest. Been into something and don't b/m it and then I kick myself later because I can't find it there after. Found that while looking for something else pertaining to my 622. Glad it is of some use to some.

Superbuick, have to agree with you there. I got brave when I did mine and didn't mark it. Went to confirm what size jet it came with and removed the bowl and main jet without removing the carb. Being visually impaired I usually find other ways around doing things. Some times the most simple tasks can be the most frustrating for me b/c I know how/and what to do but not having the vision drives me to the edge some times. Thankfully I had seen somewhere in a video that someone mentioned to pay attention to the orientation of the bowl or it would affect the float. Fingers crossed it'll go well when I finally get to swap jets.

CalgaryPT, vacum testing is a good thing providing you have the tool(s) to do it. With my vision it's easier for me to simply replace the plug rather than try to clean it up. It's also cheaper as well if for some reason you get part of that brush caught in the plug and cause damage... as you mentioned. 

I've always wondered about the way my sb went from idle to wot and would pop going back down again. I was thinking it was running lean but didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it until this thread was started. When checking the jet size a few days back I pulled the plug. If I didn't know better, I'd think it were an albino. The thing isn't quite white but next thing to it. Threads and tip are as shiny as new. Even after seeing some pics online of how to read plugs, mine didn't resemble any of them. Hope to have the new jets tomorrow and pray for some snow. Supposed to be 6C (42F) here tomorrow with rain. Hate these broken winters. Ugh!


----------



## drmerdp

I’m almost positive that bowl orientation has no effect on the float. Be diligent about the factory orientation but to be frank... Be more concerned with handling of the bowl and gasket.


----------



## RedOctobyr

CalgaryPT said:


> Great vid. Thanks. Vacuum testing a carb is a good idea before installation rather than just throwing it on and hoping it works.


How do you vacuum test one? I assume this is to test for bowl leaks?


----------



## Icicleboy

I finally had a good chance to test my 2016 HSS928AATD yesterday with new jets. We got very heavy, wet snow fall and it was perfect for testing. Engine has about 12 hours on it. I was easily able to lug down the engine to what sounds like sub 1000 rpm ( I would even say 800) by feeding it with too fast of a walking speed. I stopped what I was doing and swapped out the stock 0.85mm for a 0.88mm. The swap takes under 4 minutes, super easy. The difference was noticeable. Much more eager machine when trying to load it and much less bog. I stopped again and moved up to the honda 0.90mm jet. This one is perfect. I won't go further. I can barely bog it down now and can move much more snow per hour (by weight). I can basically walk my driveway length (180ft) at full forward speed and barely notice the rpm dropping the entire time. Much less spillage out the sides. 
I haven't bothered with the RPM yet, I might but it's quite good as is right now.


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## barney

tonysak said:


> I've always thought the Hondas are underpowered. I had a hs1332, and the hss1332 runs even leaner. I had a simplicity 32" with thr briggs 420 in it, that engine with a 14" impeller had all the power in the world. No hydro, no tracks though. Ive been wanting to rejet the Hss it is so lean but I don't have the experience. The not even 13" impeller would still be a bottle neck so I wouldn't increase the oriface too large as there is a point of diminishing return. The 390 should not be so easily bogged down though. I think its embarrasing for honda. *They should just make a non compliant version for the rest of the US, or sell the Canadian version to us.*
> 
> Ive been eye balling the Ariens track units for a few years now. There new 28" rapid track with htdro, 14"impeller and 420 engine looks pretty slick.


I'd be surprised if the Canadian version was any different than the US version.


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## grabber

barney said:


> I'd be surprised if the Canadian version was any different than the US version.


Well, im from Canada and i own both. I have a Honda Hss1332 and a Canadian Tire Mastercraft 33 inch with brigg and stratton Engine. Dont know the size of the engine, bought second hand, but this blower can make fun of my honda anytime in any snow condition. It is built to move snow, and it does the job marvelously. Honda HSS is a shame against my 12years MasterCraft. And this is supposed to be a cheap brand... i will not trade it for a brand new honda.
For the same driveway.. my canadian tire blower takes half the time it takes for my Honda to do the same job. It throw ice, slush, what ever that pass in the auguer.... this thing is a beast. With 6 speed forward and 2 reverse, this machine move.
Its a shame i have spent 5500.00$ canadian dollars for the HSS.


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## gormleyflyer2002

*why is it slower*

is it slower because your ground speed is too slow or the blower can't process. Only ask because you had hydro problems with your blower. 





grabber said:


> Well, im from Canada and i own both. I have a Honda Hss1332 and a Canadian Tire Mastercraft 33 inch with brigg and stratton Engine. Dont know the size of the engine, bought second hand, but this blower can make fun of my honda anytime in any snow condition. It is built to move snow, and it does the job marvelously. Honda HSS is a shame against my 12years MasterCraft. And this is supposed to be a cheap brand... i will not trade it for a brand new honda.
> For the same driveway.. my canadian tire blower takes half the time it takes for my Honda to do the same job. It throw ice, slush, what ever that pass in the auguer.... this thing is a beast. With 6 speed forward and 2 reverse, this machine move.
> Its a shame i have spent 5500.00$ canadian dollars for the HSS.


----------



## grabber

gormleyflyer2002 said:


> is it slower because your ground speed is too slow or the blower can't process. Only ask because you had hydro problems with your blower.


Actually i have to bring to Honda to have my transmission speed fixed. There is a Service Bulletin about this problem and my SN fall between the range.... they will fix with an external oil reservoir. When i have 6-8 inch of snow in front of the blower, the speed is not an issue since i cannot run in full speed because the engine will bogg on me, too much for the blower to process. Honnest, i have no reasons to bash Honda, nothing to gain from this. I know i sound negative, but i am a owner of a blower that is supposed to be top of the line... that is making fun of itself beside my 12year of age Blower that is all rusted. Having paid 3200$ like other cheap brand, i wouldnt compain... but i have paid for the top of the crop and have the feeling i got robbed..... 

I have ordered a higher size main jet like many peoples have done here..... I do hope this will solve the power of this machine, because up to now.. im not impressed. Not impressed at all. I do agree with those here that says that the 390CC honda engine is under powered and should have a 420CC like many others. I do have chance to compare because i run both. Its night and days when you compare the power of both blower.


Just read the story of the guy here that created this thread... he is blowing snow for a living, he was about the return the Honda because this machine was not giving him the service that other blower was giving... I read him and understand exactly what was his feeling about this machine. Me on my side, i am not blowing driveway as a buisness... neither for pleasure... i dont have all morning to blow my driveway. I do have an other job and this is the main reason why i bought this blower... its has to work, and right now beleive me, this machine doesnt worth the price i paid for. I will give Honda a chance with the higher jet size i have ordered... if no improvement, this machine will be traded first thing this spring.

The 5 year warranty extension will not make me buy an other Honda HSS either.


----------



## feh

The only “drawback” of rejetting is slightly more exhaust stink, for me at least. Haven’t had an 8+ inch snowfall yet, so haven’t tested the HSS under heavy load.


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## rosco61

So this get's me thinking that if the new HSS series say the 1332 like I have are under jetted. Then what size jet came in the 14 HS series blowers that made them more powerful. Besides claims that the chute is the cause. Did the EPA really strangle the new series down that much. And the combo of the new chute engineering versus the older style giving some of us issues.


----------



## grabber

rosco61 said:


> So this get's me thinking that if the new HSS series say the 1332 like I have are under jetted. Then what size jet came in the 14 HS series blowers that made them more powerful. Besides claims that the chute is the cause. Did the EPA really strangle the new series down that much. And the combo of the new chute engineering versus the older style giving some of us issues.


I think that the fact that the impeller size is smaller on the HS series it is less prone to bugg when the auger is full... the bigger the impeller, the more power you need to shoot the snow from it. Honda increased the impeller but not the engine. To me, this is the weakness of this series. Bigger Jet might help here i hope.


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## jrom

Grabber, you've been talking about your transmission problem for over a year now. You need to take your machine into a Honda dealer to get it fixed. You will run out of warranty time.

Do it bro.

Then work on your main jet issue...if you need to.





grabber said:


> Actually i have to bring to Honda to have my transmission speed fixed. There is a Service Bulletin about this problem and my SN fall between the range.... they will fix with an external oil reservoir. When i have 6-8 inch of snow in front of the blower, the speed is not an issue since i cannot run in full speed because the engine will bogg on me, too much for the blower to process. Honnest, i have no reasons to bash Honda, nothing to gain from this. I know i sound negative, but i am a owner of a blower that is supposed to be top of the line... that is making fun of itself beside my 12year of age Blower that is all rusted. Having paid 3200$ like other cheap brand, i wouldnt compain... but i have paid for the top of the crop and have the feeling i got robbed.....


----------



## rosco61

*performance issues*



grabber said:


> I think that the fact that the impeller size is smaller on the HS series it is less prone to bugg when the auger is full... the bigger the impeller, the more power you need to shoot the snow from it. Honda increased the impeller but not the engine. To me, this is the weakness of this series. Bigger Jet might help here i hope.


I have had zero issues with clogging or throwing or drive issues. I was just reviewing the information and this popped into my head.


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## grabber

jrom said:


> Grabber, you've been talking about your transmission problem for over a year now. You need to take your machine into a Honda dealer to get it fixed. Don't keep bringing it up and bashing Honda when there is a fix in the works.
> 
> You will run out of warranty time.
> 
> Do it bro.
> 
> Then work on your main jet issue...if you need to.



Thanks for this suggestion. We have so much snow this winter... cannot find 4 days in a row without the need of the blower. Honda called me last week.... all the parts are received. They are waiting for my blower to fix it. I told them, as soon the Meteo will forcast 4 days in a row without a snow storm, i will bring it in. What a winter. I am confident the tranny issue will be fixed.
the 0.41 jet is in stock, but the 0.42 is backordered.... wonder how many HSS owner like us have ordered this.... Anyway, i will gladely install the 0.41 for now, which is better than nothing.


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## drmerdp

grabber said:


> Thanks for this suggestion. We have so much snow this winter... cannot find 4 days in a row without the need of the blower. Honda called me last week.... all the parts are received. They are waiting for my blower to fix it. I told them, as soon the Meteo will forcast 4 days in a row without a snow storm, i will bring it in. What a winter. I am confident the tranny issue will be fixed.
> the 0.41 jet is in stock, but the 0.42 is backordered.... wonder how many HSS owner like us have ordered this.... Anyway, i will gladely install the 0.41 for now, which is better than nothing.


Man your having a heck of a winter, Glad to here that your dealer is so cooperative. That’s pretty funny that .042 jets are back ordered. You can always buy a #58 drill bit.


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## csonni

This ain’t no Honda, but I think he needs to downsize his jet as she’s smoking up a bit too much.


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## Boston_Rob

Update: Very happy with the 92 jet in the HS- K1 GX270. It might be on the verge of being a tad rich but I'm happy how it responds. Heavy rained on 4 1/2 inches gave plenty of EOD and street widening to really hear and see the difference. It looked like snow going in but was full on sloppy sleet out the shute. Top end set at 3850-ish rpm and a fresh belt adjustment too. Its still a 8-9 hp driving a 28" bucket, but its now angry and hungry rather than a total dog under heavy load. Rob


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## Dannoman

What is the drill bit size to modify (enlarge) a fixed carb jet on an old 10HP Tecumseh - and where do you get these tiny drill bits?


----------



## Dannoman

csonni said:


> This ain’t no Honda, but I think he needs to downsize his jet as she’s smoking up a bit too much.
> 
> https://youtu.be/k0g4uUcw0sY


Al Gore is freaking out about this! :smile_big:


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## ThumperACC

I'm in southeast NH, we got 6" of snow followed by a lot of rain compacting it down to 3-4" of sludge and low spots were full-on 3" of slush. I did my HSS928 with a 92 or 0.036" jet after having read Northeast's posts.

Wow, what a different machine. It really has balls now and had enough guts so I could keep it from clogging by giving it more snow/sludge to throw. I could clear impending clogs by going faster and the engine had what it takes. I am totally stoked. I am very satisfied with the performance of this engine now.

I was throwing this sludge 40+ feet (my neighbors seemed to be throwing 15-20 feet at best) and the machine was taking it fast. Performing like the class of machine it is. 

At the end there was enough water in the street that as I was cutting the street to the curb (at full speed because there was not a lot of width of slush/water left) it was blowing more water than slush and throwing it 40+ feet.

Thanks Northeast again for starting this thread.
:3tens: :rock:

ThumperACC


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## drmerdp

Dannoman said:


> What is the drill bit size to modify (enlarge) a fixed carb jet on an old 10HP Tecumseh - and where do you get these tiny drill bits?


I would buy an adjustable eBay carb.


----------



## northeast

I am glad to hear the mods are working for others. I did 25 driveways last night and had one clog and it was my fault. My route took me 90 minutes less then it use too( I use to own 2 Ariens pro 28's). Neighbors were taking a break from doing there driveways to watch these machines blow the sludge that was out there. I now feel like they are worth the money.


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## Jarsh

Thank you northeast!

After going through **** with a dealer and my little 622 today is its day. Been complaining about the governor ever since I purchased it three years ago. Was ready to give up on it until one day while doing my uncle's drive I reached under the tank and moved the governor with my fingers. After it was completed, brought the sucker home and tore into it. Ordered new governor arm, springs, along with the rod that connects the governor to the carburetor. Worked like a charm. 

Had little snow thus far this winter. Being a frequent reader of the forum, northeast confirmed my other thought of the blower running lean. If dropping from wot to idle it would pop and hesitate in the other direction. Didn't want to get into the carb so I left well enough alone. That is/was until I came across this thread. Being I got the thing working properly I figure it's all the way baby! Seeing how the general rule of thumb is .002 over stock for being a good match I ordered a couple jets. Thankfully they arrived in the mail yesterday no less. After install, I noticed the exhaust has a deeper tone to it. The throttling up/down is smooth and crisp. Only had a couple inches on the ground yesterday so I I left it at that.

With the current snowfall there is about 5 or inches in the drive and knee deep at EOD. The plow has only made two runs thus far. We may/not get rain later today before switching back to flurries. It's still coming down nicely as I type. So hopefully this will be its final test. 

Before anyone thinks I should have purchased a real blower, mother nature usually does a good job at keeping my drive clean compared to my neighbors. Usually it's only knee deep or so. My uncle's place can be anywhere from my waist to my shoulders with the drifts. Only thing lacking, for me, is another higher gear. Like most I would have like to have gotten HSD but I purchased this knowing people who've had them for 20+ years and only had axle seals go out. It's nimble and I don't have to push it.. unlike my uncle's MTD/Yard Works which I curse!

Anyway, sorry for being so long winded. I'll post another update once I've gotten a few hrs on it. Something tells me I'm going to be completely shocked with the outcome.


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## Jarsh

Well, I had a good 6-8" in my drive and my uncles place had more due to drifting. Worked out much better than I could have imagined. Even with the EOD that was about a foot in mine and my uncle's was over that. Normally I'd have to drop to 1st gear doing EOD. Between having the governor working properly along with the #80 jet that thing came alive! Not once did I have to drop it into 1st. 

Usually before putting the blower away I refuel. Much to my surprise, or should I say shock, I probably burnt about 1 cup of fuel doing both drives as well as the back corners of both houses to access furnace oil tanks. Both drive are 150-200" each. So yeah, I'm quite impressed! Thought for sure with having the larger jet the thing would go through more fuel. Impressed indeed. 

Hats off to northeast once again for prompting those of us who would have never tackled such a simple task! Been tempted to try it a few times but never any encouragement to do so.


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## RedOctobyr

That's awesome, I'm glad this is working well for people! Waking up the engine's full power, for reasonable cost & effort, is awesome. 

Thank you northeast for figuring this out, and sharing it. Even for those of us who don't own one of these engines, it's still an interesting, and educational, discussion.


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## Jarsh

Here's a tidbit. The guy across the street has a new HSS724. When he went to do his drive tonight it just didn't sound right. I asked him if he found it under powered and told me a little. I could hear it straining. I He was aware of the trouble I went through with mine I explained about it running lean. His first reaction was about voiding his warranty. Told him if interested, all he would have to do is call the dealer and inquire. 

Had company stop in for a bit but once they left the guy was still doing his drive. I took my blower out and went over with it. Got him to try it and he couldn't believe the difference.. especially knowing it's previous lack of performance. To my ear, it sounded better than his. The thing gave me the impression of how mine would drastically drop rpm's. When hitting the deeper snow the 622 went right through in 2nd. Even with the 724 running at a reduced speed it clearly sounded as though it was straining. 

He inquired again as to what exactly it was that i did. Explained it's a $10 (CAD) simple fix along with what he wold have to do. So something tells me he'll be calling the dealer before long. 

The GX160 is far from anything to brag about. However with a little effort it was nice to see how it now compares with a stock GX200. Finally can say I'm happy with it. Hopefully the guy will decide to work on his 724. It's a sweet machine with all the bells and whistles. The HSD sure is nice though. One the same token, though mine is slow, having the clutch system appears to me virtually maintenance free. So I'll count that as a bonus.


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## CalgaryPT

csonni said:


> This ain’t no Honda, but I think he needs to downsize his jet as she’s smoking up a bit too much.
> 
> https://youtu.be/k0g4uUcw0sY


Suddenly my feelings of teenage inadequacy and awkwardness just returned.


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## FullThrottle

I think he went from lean to rich,better install another jet and try for a little leaner.lol



CalgaryPT said:


> Suddenly my feelings of teenage inadequacy and awkwardness just returned.


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## jrom

Unfortunately this doesn't answer a Canadian Honda warranty question, but it may still help. From [email protected] on Feb 6:


[email protected] said:


> Can't speak for Honda Canada, but in the USA, Honda will never 'void' your warranty, even if you mod the product. However, if your mods result in a failure or malfunction, and not a genuine factory defect, Honda will decline to pay for repairs. But, if you do a jet change, and the recoil starter fails, they are not related, so Honda would cover the starter repair cost, even if you admit to a jet change. Defects are covered, no matter what mods you make.





Jarsh said:


> ...His first reaction was about voiding his warranty. Told him if interested, all he would have to do is call the dealer and inquire....


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## Jarsh

Jets and warranty!

I was curious about this after talking with my neighbor last night. Decided to call Honda Canada to get a definitive answer for those concerned.

The lady told me as long as that part is not "deemed" to have caused the problem then your warranty is NOT void.

So it looks as though Honda US and Honda Canada are both in agreement regarding their warranties.


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## northeast

For all the people who are worried about their warranty. Change out the jet to what you want and shelve the other one. If you ever bring it in for service switch the jet. It takes five minutes to change the jet out if you’re not willing to spend five minutes to get more performance then just don’t do the upgrade.


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## csonni

tabora said:


> Yes, it can... If you replace the break-in oil too early, the process will not complete.
> 
> From a mechanic: "If you fail to follow this procedure [the full break-in period], the piston rings may never seat."
> 
> Great article on engine break-in: New Engine Break-in Procedure


Got 19 hrs on it now. I think I’ll warm er up once she thaws out and drain the oil next week.


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## grump99

So I gave this a go today and ran into a couple of issues. Would appreciate some feedback please. For reference, I'm at 500 feet elevation and temps were in the upper 30's.

I have #102, #105 and #108 jets arriving this week. So I figured it wouldn't hurt to drill out the currently installed jet. I used a #58 (0.042 inch) bit.

I marked the float bowl with a Sharpie in multiple places. However, when I reinstalled the bowl it was still leaking where the bowl meets the carb. I'm not sure why, as I used my marks to align it. It only seemed to leak when the bucket was tipped up, not when the bucket was flat. This leads me to believe that the float is working okay. I did test float manually with bowl off and it worked correctly.

I looosened the bowl slightly and kept making small turns until I found a spot that stopped the leaking. It was messy for sure. I added scratches to the bowl in 2 places to hopefully avoid any further alignment issues.

Upon firing up the blower, it definitely felt like it had more power and grunt. I was definately happy with that part.

However, upon starting, I saw a small puff of black smoke. I also saw small puffs of smoke when bumping up to full throttle or whenever the engine was under significant load.

I pulled the plug after about an hour and it looks too dark to me. I also noticed some soot on the exhaust screen.

Am I over jetted? I confirmed with 3 separate calipers that the bit I used was 0.042 inch. I made sure to drill in straight and to not overdrill the jet. Maybe I screwed something up?

I'm thinking I should just go back to 102 or maybe 105 when they come in? Maybe the Honda jets will be more precise in their flow rates? I guess I can try 105 next and go from there?

I like the power, but I don't want to fill my engine with carbon. I'm not really sure how to approach this moving forward.

Would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.


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## RedOctobyr

It sounds like you are running a little rich, I would try a slightly-smaller jet. 

Even if that drill size works well for other people (I'm assuming that's the implication, from you triple-checking), maybe your engine is just a bit different.


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## grump99

That's what I was thinking. 0.042 comes out to roughly 1.066 mms, so I guess I can try the 105 jet and see what happens. If that is too rich I guess I can go back to 102? 

Maybe I somehow accidentally reamed it out a bit much? The nice thing about Honda jets is that they are exact.

On a positive note, it threw heavy wet snow a country mile. Gotta find a decent balance.

Thanks


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## northeast

I would assume it’s a gx390 correct?


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## grump99

Yes GX 390. Only 6 hours on it. At first there was a strong gas smell too, but that's probably because it was leaking.

I can only see smoke when the exhaust silhouettes against the snow, but definitely there. The relatively warm temps would lead to a rich condition as well. I'm hoping 105 will work out.


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## northeast

Did you drill it will a machine or by hand?


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## grump99

With my fingers. I tried to drill straight, but maybe I somehow over-reamed it by accident. The next size larger bit does not fit, so it's not too far off.

I ran it for another half hour and took a few more plug pictures. The center of the plug is clear, but there is soot around the edges. Gonna have to dial it down I guess.

I attached the plug pics for review. Thanks.


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## northeast

Interesting guys are going to .043 and not having problems. I am surprised you are running rich however it does appear a little rich by the picture. My plugs do not look like that and I am at .042.


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## stromr

One thing occurs to me when you guys are drilling these jets. A twist drill has a tendency to drill oversize especially when you figure in the chuck holding it, whether handheld or in a drill press and the wear of the bushing or bearing in your machine. Jets are normally drilled undersize and then reamed at the factory to precise measurements leaving a smooth, clean surface so the gas doesn't have any surface irregularities to pass over. Also subtle differences in engines may affect fuel mix. Always tune to your particular engine, fuel, altitude and air density.
I've got an adjustable jet on mine and frequently have to give the carb screw a turn depending on the weather on any given day. With a fixed jet what works at 10 degrees might be a little rich at 25 degrees so you'll have to tune for a happy medium unless you want to be rejetting everytime you use the machine.
Still jetting our machines richer is the only way to achieve the maximum benefit. With just a little experimentation you too can have a powerful machine and a more satisfying snowblowing experience.


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## DriverRider

grump99 said:


> That's what I was thinking. 0.042 comes out to roughly 1.066 mms, so I guess I can try the 105 jet and see what happens. If that is too rich I guess I can go back to 102?
> Maybe I somehow accidentally reamed it out a bit much? The nice thing about Honda jets is that they are exact.
> On a positive note, it threw heavy wet snow a country mile. Gotta find a decent balance.


Seeing black smoke then yeah you went too far.
Due to engine/carburetor/fuel variations not every engine will need a larger jet and some will run perfectly OK with what it came with.
By manipulating the choke and listening to exhaust note (absence of lean popping) and observing the quality of engine running (RPM increase and smoothing of running) folks need to first determine if their engine is in fact running too lean.


----------



## grabber

I looosened the bowl slightly and kept making small turns until I found a spot that stopped the leaking. It was messy for sure. I added scratches to the bowl in 2 places to hopefully avoid any further alignment issues.

that make me think there should be some torque specs in the shop manual for the bolt holding the boal... Why in **** a bolt that is more torqued would make the boal leaked ?

Did look in the shop manual :
Fuel strainer cup : 2.9 lbf-ft

i do have a torque wrench, for small bolt, and the lowest value on it is 5 lbf-ft.... so that tells me that bolt should be tight just ennough to put some pressure on the gasket at most.

Now with the experience grump99 had with drilling the jet.... Im afraid to drill mine... or if i drill, i will drill it to 0.041

To those that has installed 0.042, did you remove the plug to read it like grump99 did ?

could air density difference from -1 deg Cel. to -15deg Cel be ennough to make a difference in the rich condition ? I do notice that in very cold weather (-15) sometime the engine at (WOT) with no load would continiusly surge up and down... until a put a little bit of a choke it stop. Then on the same blowing session, i would put the choke off, and there is no surging in RPM any more... hard to figure out why sometime it surge and sometime not. Playing with the choke definately help to fix this.


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## grump99

Let me clarify. When I said I made small rotations to find a position that does not leak, I was talking about slightly rotating the bowl itself, not the nut tension.

The service manual has a nice illustration of the proper bowl orientation. It should be 30 degrees from straight back. I will attach a picture to hopefully help someone here. 

Thanks for the input regarding drilling. It is difficult to keep the drill bit perfectly square to the jet. I may have accidentally reamed it out a bit too much. The nice thing about the Honda jets is that they are exact in diameter. This should eliminate any uncertainty. 

It's possible that the machine wasn't running lean to begin with. It ran "fine" prior to re-jetting. It didn't pop or hunt for RPM. I was just looking for some more power. I definately got more power after drilling.

I will install the 105 when it arrives and then run it for a bit. If that works, I will stay there. If it's still too rich, I will put it back to stock. I'm hoping the 105 will give a nice power boost without being too rich. From what I've read here, the 105 should hopefully work out. I will follow up when possible.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## DriverRider

DriverRider said:


> Seeing black smoke then yeah you went too far.
> Due to engine/carburetor/fuel variations not every engine will need a larger jet and some will run perfectly OK with what it came with.
> By manipulating the choke and listening to exhaust note (absence of lean popping) and observing the quality of engine running (RPM increase and smoothing of running) folks need to first determine if their engine is in fact running too lean.


When manipulating the choke one will find optimum running conditions a little prior of too much choke when engine begins to miss. 

A general rule of thumb is if an engine starts to miss at a 1/4 choke from being too rich you are right in the ballpark for an acceptable air/fuel mix. If choke is approaching 1/2 or more before too rich mix symptoms show there is room for improvement.:smile_big:


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## feh

Ok. So we’ve gotten at least a foot of snow here in Northern Illinois throughout the last week, with 8” on Friday and another 6” today. My rejetted HSS1332 is a different monster for sure, now that I’ve had it under heavy loads for the past 6+ hours spent snow blowing. Absolutely zero clogging even under wet heavy EOD snow. I’m very happy with the 0.043” jet so far.


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## csonni

DriverRider said:


> Seeing black smoke then yeah you went too far.
> Due to engine/carburetor/fuel variations not every engine will need a larger jet and some will run perfectly OK with what it came with.
> By manipulating the choke and listening to exhaust note (absence of lean popping) and observing the quality of engine running (RPM increase and smoothing of running) folks need to first determine if their engine is in fact running too lean.


Actually, I’m going to pull my plug for examination before installing the .042 and then increase my rpm from 3290 to 3650. I’m at 30 feet above sea level, so that would mean to me that I wouldn’t want to riches it up too much. Isn’t it at higher altitudes when carbs run leaner?


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## northeast

If you going to bring the rpm’s up you may as well go to 3900.


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## grabber

Let me clarify. When I said I made small rotations to find a position that does not leak, I was talking about slightly rotating the bowl itself, not the nut tension.

And this even if you initially marked the boal before removing it ? Meaning you installed it at the exact same position and was leaking... if thats the case, im lost.


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## stromr

I think you guys are starting see how little increases and decreases have to be made due to weather and location. All this on small engine power equipment. I can only tell you we are touching the absolute minimum compared to when I raced 2 cycle motorcycles all over the country. Our bikes had 2 or 4 carburetors. Sometimes we changed every internal piece we could, the slide, the pilot jet, the needle and/or it's position, the needle jet, the main jet... Sometimes from morning to afternoon! Just as you read about race drivers having a dedicated crewmen who does nothing but tires, the same went for carbs.
At any rate these small engines will run well over a wide range of jetting. Since they're too lean to begin with we don't have to worry about going that way. Slightly rich as long as there isn't any smoke or stumbling is fine. Keep the OHV engines valves adjusted and you'll be amazed at the power. The video of the OP was quite impressive.
I've got an 11 year old Powermore that I'm happy with, will probably outlast the blower!


----------



## DriverRider

csonni said:


> Actually, I’m going to pull my plug for examination before installing the .042 and then increase my rpm from 3290 to 3650. I’m at 30 feet above sea level, so that would mean to me that I wouldn’t want to riches it up too much. Isn’t it at higher altitudes when carbs run leaner?


When going up in altitude oxygen content in the air is less so a lean running machine at sea level would benefit mixture wise on top of the mountain. High altitude fuel jets are smaller than non.

I have been enlarging jets on troublesome small engines since adjustable jets were outlawed and prior to that on cars and trucks from the late seventies-early eighties and have never needed to look at a plug except on the Honda Valkyrie 1500 which is a six cylinder with six carburetors.:biggrin: One can diagnose carb troubles after eliminating other causes such as vacuum leaks. A spark plug will have no problem firing on an optimum-near optimum mixture, it fires on a lean one, right? Looking at a plug is beneficial when diagnosing a suspected rich running condition on a cylinder to confirm that, after a compression test is done especially on multi cylinder engines.


----------



## csonni

DriverRider said:


> When going up in altitude oxygen content in the air is less so a lean running machine at sea level would benefit mixture wise on top of the mountain. High altitude fuel jets are smaller than non.


Haha. I see how I had that backwards.

So, less air and more fuel at lower altitudes and more air and less fuel at higher altitudes. Makes sense.

With that, has anyone here installed one of those adjustable main jets or are they not recommended?


----------



## grump99

grabber said:


> And this even if you initially marked the boal before removing it ? Meaning you installed it at the exact same position and was leaking... if thats the case, im lost.


I marked it with a Sharpie in 2 places initially. When I lined it back up it leaked. Maybe my marks were off a little bit, I'm not sure. It has to be in just the right position or it will leak. It seems to be very sensitive to the alignment. 

Once I got it correct, I scratched a couple permanent marks. Hopefully this will prevent further issues. It's not a big deal to tweak the alignment, just a little messy. See attached photo.


----------



## RedOctobyr

I don't know what the adjustable-jet options are for Hondas, and if they could be retrofitted into the existing Honda carb, vs needing to replace it with an aftermarket carb. 

But it seems like it would be nice if you could make a single swap, and then adjust it to whatever is needed. Even if the weather varies, or your engine's "tastes" change a bit over time. 

Only if the price was reasonable, though. Selecting the proper $5 fixed jet sounds more appealing than spending $80 (hypothetical) for an adjustable version.


----------



## csonni

grump99 said:


> I marked it with a Sharpie in 2 places initially. When I lined it back up it leaked. Maybe my marks were off a little bit, I'm not sure. It has to be in just the right position or it will leak. It seems to be very sensitive to the alignment.
> 
> Once I got it correct, I scratched a couple permanent marks. Hopefully this will prevent further issues. It's not a big deal to tweak the alignment, just a little messy. See attached photo.


The 30 degrees in that photo can differ greatly for every user. 2 marks are much more accurate for repositioning, from my perspective.


----------



## csonni

RedOctobyr said:


> Selecting the proper $5 fixed jet sounds more appealing than spending $80 (hypothetical) for an adjustable version.


Unless you’re blowing out someone in Death Valley below sea level and someone else in the high elevations of the Sierra Navadas in the same day! Haha.


----------



## tabora

Just installed my new tachometer on the HSS1332. RPMs with the stock 102 _.0402 _jet and factory throttle settings were:
Idle = 2120 RPM
Max Throttle = 3460 RPM

There was some surging throughout the range of RPMs. Ambient temperature was 34 degrees F.

I increased the Max Throttle to 3650 RPM, and the engine was surging over a 400 RPM range. Added about 1/2 choke to smooth it out as shown in the attached photo.

Thanks to everyone who went before me for the education on jet swapping - with all your cumulative knowledge, it was a piece of cake...

1. Removed the air box, carb cover, and lower cover.
2. Ran the engine with the gas off and choke applied until it died.
3. Opened the bowl drain to get the remaining tiny bit of gas out.
4. Tipped the blower onto its nose and made 2 index marks on either side of the float hinge boss. Note: my bowl was less than 30 degrees offset.
5. Removed the bowl and cleaned it (there were a few specs of crud on the end of the bowl screw).
6. Took an old screwdriver and ground it to be a perfect fit to the jet slot and hole. Removed the stock 102 _.0402_ jet and installed the new 110 _.0433_ jet and reassembled the carb bowl and checked for leaks (none).

The engine was perfectly smooth from 2120 to 3650 RPM with no surging and no choke required. Max RPM was consistent from the prior adjustment.


----------



## northeast

If you have any snow in Maine take it out and give it a go. Do your best to bog it down.


----------



## tabora

northeast said:


> If you have any snow in Maine take it out and give it a go. Do your best to bog it down.


OK, so I just did about 40 feet of 2 foot deep, heavy, wet, week-old EOD (temp is now up to 40F) in front of my barn to clear my trailers and then did a double parking space through 8 inches of the same stuff. I *WAS* able to lug it down in the EOD at nearly full speed, but only to 3540 RPM. 

And then something unexpected... I did the 8" stuff at full speed and the governor took it up to 3750 RPM briefly at the beginning of each cut before returning to 3650 RPM. Threw all that stuff OVER the barn. I don't have a drone, so no fancy video, but the snow landed out back some where...


----------



## RedOctobyr

Very nice! Saying it "bogged", by 110 RPM, still sounds pretty good to me. That's not much of a drop, and no engine is infinitely powerful. The biggest question, I guess, is how it would have performed in that stuff with the original jet. 

And to throw it over that barn, wow!


----------



## vmax29

It’s going to strain under load no matter what you do. So long as it maintains a respectable rpm I would say you won!


----------



## drmerdp

Just saw this in my service manual. 

I lol-ed.


----------



## northeast

drmerdp said:


> Just saw this in my service manual.
> 
> I lol-ed.



Every thing I have written in this thread is completely hypothetical of course.


----------



## jrom

We should tell everyone that needs to copy this thread to...copy this thread. :ninja :smile:


----------



## vmax29

The revenuers are coming to collect on those tampered jets. They’ll never take us alive!:smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009:


----------



## csonni

Increased my rpm to 3750 which makes all the difference in the world. Still waiting on the jets, although, I wonder if I even need them now. Here's a pic. Mind you, it's blurry, but you can make out the color. Looks on the lean side to me.


----------



## DriverRider

csonni said:


> Increased my rpm to 3750 which makes all the difference in the world. Still waiting on the jets, although, I wonder if I even need them now. Here's a pic. Mind you, it's blurry, but you can make out the color. Looks on the lean side to me.


A couple pages back I posted this

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1503401-post423.html

Back in the day with adjustable jets no mechanic would ever set a carburetor to what a spark plug looks like, it was done by ear and engine observation. When manipulating the choke you can determine exactly if and how much an engine is running lean and is one of the next best ways to fine tune. Looking at a plug will never be as accurate as observing an actual running engine.


----------



## csonni

DriverRider said:


> A couple pages back I posted this
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1503401-post423.html
> 
> Back in the day with adjustable jets no mechanic would ever set a carburetor to what a spark plug looks like, it was done by ear and engine observation. When manipulating the choke you can determine exactly if and how much an engine is running lean and is one of the next best ways to fine tune. Looking at a plug will never be as accurate as observing an actual running engine.


What would be the tell-tale observation for either too lean or too rich? Smoke for too rich? Popping for too lean?


----------



## grabber

DriverRider said:


> A couple pages back I posted this
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1503401-post423.html
> 
> Back in the day with adjustable jets no mechanic would ever set a carburetor to what a spark plug looks like, it was done by ear and engine observation. When manipulating the choke you can determine exactly if and how much an engine is running lean and is one of the next best ways to fine tune. Looking at a plug will never be as accurate as observing an actual running engine.


I have to agree with you here. Also this has to be verified when the engine is running at WOT right ?


----------



## tabora

Because people have asked, here are where I obtained the tachometer and jet:

I purchased the 110 jet from 6 Sigma and they're $6.95 delivered. *Predator 212 cc Honda Clone GX160 GX200 GX390 I...*

I purchased the tach from RacingPowerSports for $19.99 delivered. *RacingPowerSports Backlit Digital Tach Tachomet...
*It has an easily changed battery and a nice, large, backlit display. It's much better than the one I purchased from China for my generator, and has a lot of options and features that I probably won't use, since I already have the built-in hour meter on the HSS1332ATD.*
*


----------



## 1132le

csonni where you live is much much colder it looks to me that alone will like some extra jet
put a tach on it and watch how the gov kicks in when you put it under a load with the different jets
conditions change needs thats why the adjustable carb was so nice just reach under and adjust a abit at a time
i tend to snowblow at 2am or 3am if its in the am and warm 35 40 degrees the screw gets leaned abit at a time untill my tach smiles under a load
been doing that so long now its almost 2nd nature


----------



## tabora

1132le said:


> csonni where you live is much much colder it looks to me that alone will like some extra jet
> put a tach on it and watch how the gov kicks in when you put it under a load with the different jets
> conditions change needs thats why the adjustable carb was so nice just reach under and adjust a abit at a time
> i tend to snowblow at 2am or 3am if its in the am and warm 35 40 degrees the screw gets leaned abit at a time untill my tach smiles under a load
> been doing that so long now its almost 2nd nature


For anyone who's interested, here's an adjustable main jet for under $10...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HF-Predato...657008&hash=item4b37d82381:g:QmYAAOSwF71Z144Y


----------



## drmerdp

Just rejetted my HS720. The factory jet was a #78 .0307”. 

The machine did run good with this jet. It only has 6 hours on it. At 25F degrees (yesterday) it took about 30-40 seconds for the engine to level out but not FULLY. It fills out at about 30% choke.

Bumped the jet to an OEM #82 .0323”.

27F degrees. The machine runs better... Fires up with a bit more pep. I can pull the engine off choke immediately and it levels out in a few seconds. It fills out the rest of the way with 15% choke. 

I also bumped the revs to 5000 rpms. j/k I didn’t bring my good tach home. 

I’m gonna stick with this jetting for now.


----------



## 1132le

drmerdp said:


> Just rejetted my HS720. The factory jet was a #78 .0307”.
> 
> The machine did run good with this jet. It only has 6 hours on it. At 25F degrees (yesterday) it took about 30-40 seconds for the engine to level out but not FULLY. It fills out at about 30% choke.
> 
> Bumped the jet to an OEM #80 .0323”.
> 
> 27F degrees. The machine runs better... Fires up with a bit more pep. I can pull the engine off choke immediately and it levels out in a few seconds. It fills out the rest of the way with 15% choke.
> 
> I also bumped the revs to 5000 rpms. j/k I didn’t bring my good tach home.
> 
> I’m gonna stick with this jetting for now.


5k i love it whats your idle 3600? 
have you checked your impeller speed?


----------



## drmerdp

1132le said:


> 5k i love it whats your idle 3600?
> have you checked your impeller speed?


I have not. I will check with a laser tach soon, plus bump the revs and check again.


----------



## tabora

tabora said:


> For anyone who's interested, here's an adjustable main jet for under $10...
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HF-Predato...657008&hash=item4b37d82381:g:QmYAAOSwF71Z144Y


I just purchased one of these to forward to a forum member who lives in Canada, since the seller apparently refuses to do so. Happy to do it for anyone else _Nord des lignes._


----------



## JnC

drmerdp said:


> Just rejetted my HS720. The factory jet was a #78 .0307”.
> 
> The machine did run good with this jet. It only has 6 hours on it. At 25F degrees (yesterday) it took about 30-40 seconds for the engine to level out but not FULLY. It fills out at about 30% choke.
> 
> Bumped the jet to an OEM #80 .0323”.
> 
> 27F degrees. The machine runs better... Fires up with a bit more pep. I can pull the engine off choke immediately and it levels out in a few seconds. It fills out the rest of the way with 15% choke.
> 
> I also bumped the revs to 5000 rpms. j/k I didn’t bring my good tach home.
> 
> I’m gonna stick with this jetting for now.


Quick question, as I am trying to do the same to an HS720, isnt the 0.0323" OEM #82, according to the following post?



jrom said:


> *Double check the part numbers for jets #88, 90 and 92 with your dealer or on a site like boats.net against the engine list that pops up. I've seen different numbers on those three as optional jets.
> 
> 
> Seems like the consensus is to go 2 to 3 sizes larger. These jets should all be the same thread size and diameter.
> 
> Honda OEM Stock Main Jets from Shop Manual:
> HSS928 GX270 - Production years: 2015 - 2017, model years: 2016 - 2018.
> Main Jet (Stock): #85 Part Number: 99101-ZH8-0850
> _____________________________________________________________
> 
> GX270 HSS928 (2015 - 2018)
> # 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A (Optional)
> # 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A (Optional)
> # 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HSS928A (Stock)
> 
> # 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZH8-0880
> # 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZH8-0890
> # 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-ZH8-0920
> 
> GX390 HSS1332A (2015 - 2018)
> # 95 (0.95 mm, .0374") | 99101-ZH8-0950 | (Optional)
> # 98 (0.98 mm, .0386") | 99101-ZH7-0980 | (Optional)
> # 100 (1.00 mm, .0394") | 99101-ZH8-1000 | (Optional)
> # 102 (1.02 mm, .0402") | 99101-ZH8-1020 | (HSS1332A GX390 Stock)
> 
> # 105 (1.05 mm, .0413") | 99101-ZH8-1050
> # 108 (1.08 mm, .0425") | 99101-ZH8-1080
> # 110 (1.10 mm, .0433") | 99101-ZH8-1100
> 
> _____________________________________________________________


----------



## drmerdp

JnC said:


> Quick question, as I am trying to do the same to an HS720, isnt the 0.0323" OEM #82, according to the following post?


Typo, may bad. 

I installed a #82 .0323 jet


----------



## csonni

Just got my 3 jets today. I may go ahead and put in the .043.
As I said earlier in my "performance comparison" post, upping my rpms has done wonders. Biting into a good amount of snow makes the beast develop more power.

I noticed on the packaging that shipping is only stated as costing $4.....and I was charged $38! I did send an email asking about this. Update: Here is their reply which I just received. Makes sense. "The pink signature slip they make you sign cost us $4 when they return it to us. The pink slip does not cover any shipping cost to get the package to you, its just an additional cost the post office charges to return the signature slip back to us saying that you received your package."


----------



## nwcove

1132le said:


> 5k i love it whats your idle 3600?
> have you checked your impeller speed?


rofl


----------



## northeast

So we can all laugh about 5000 rpm’s however it’s not out of the question if you want to be crazy here is what I learned from the engine builders. 

In stock form the engine will turn 5500 rpm’s at that point the valve springs become an issue. To get there you need to change the flywheel they said the stock flywheel will explode at 5500 rpm’s. Also the ignition needs to be changed to eliminate the electronic governor. 

Beyond that I would think that the pulleys would need to be changed out. I would think you would want to get the rest of the rpm’s somewhere near stock

They said these engine will run all day at 5500rpm producing about 17 horsepower. So please somebody do these mods and post a video.


----------



## tabora

northeast said:


> They said these engine will run all day at 5500rpm producing about 17 horsepower.


Probably not "all day"... Snowblowers run at pretty much a constant RPM under heavy load alternating with no-load conditions for up to hours at a time. Karts run at varying speeds over a range of RPMs with relatively light loads for relatively short periods. Typical Sprint duration does not normally exceed 15 minutes. Speedway kart races range in length from 4 laps for a trophy dash, to 20 laps for a main event. While endurance races can last for an extended period, ranging from 30 minutes up to 24 hours, it's still mostly light loads at high RPMs.

In building engines, I would think the requirements for a snowblower are more like a generator than a kart.

Kind of like comparing a 600BHP Cat vs a 600BHP Lambo. Different apps. I don't need my blower to travel at 100MPH, just want the snow to exit the chute at that speed.:grin:

Besides, looking at the GX390 HP/Torque curves, it looks like going much beyond 3650RPM is a diminishing proposition for our application...


----------



## drmerdp

True the torque curve drops steadily at high rpms and the horsepower levels out. But mechanical governors aren’t perfect and bumping the rpms will take some of the slop out of its response to load. 

Essentially sureing up the engine into its powerband. 

I love the idea of electronic governors for this reason. Optimal throttle response to load.

Think of the igx390 in the hs1336.


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

While were dreaming, what you want is the EFI GX390 out of the EU7000iS. Slam that into a 24" bucket and you're in business.


----------



## tabora

Here's the GX390 kart app HP/Torque chart... Keep in mind that mathematically the two curves MUST cross at 5252 RPM, and they tune them for the 5.5K HP peak, where torque is still at a useful level for that application and the engine is still shy of where the whirlybits tend to seek communion with the sun.



[email protected] said:


> I was told _torque is what gets you to (X speed) and horsepower keeps it there_
> So you set the engine to 3600 rpm (FAST), the augers bite into some heavy EOD, the speed drops, and the governor cranks in more air/fuel to create torque to twist all the moving parts to get back to 3600 again (or as close as possible).













Manufacturers tend to use the smallest possible main jet for two reasons. First, you get slightly better "mileage". Second, exhaust emissions (CO and HC [hydrocarbons]) are lower if the engine runs slightly lean (less fuel in the fuel/air mixture) than slightly rich (more fuel in the fuel/air mixture).







Nitrogen Oxide (NOX) exhaust emissions are higher if the mixture is lean though, so it's a tricky balance. Since snowblowers don't usually have catalytic converters like cars do, running the engine lean is one way to keep CO and HC exhaust emissions under control. However if you go too lean, the engine may overheat, power will drop and emissions will go up. If you go too rich the engine will splutter and performance will drop and emissions will increase. Manufacturers don't know what temperature you'll be using the engine in or what elevation you'll be at and so to stay on the lean side, they often use a jet smaller than the optimum size for performance, just to make sure that wherever you are, the engine will be running on the lean side at full throttle rather than the rich side. The ideal condition is to have the correct air/fuel ratio at the target speeds, not to run lean or rich, and under that condition emissions will still be well controlled and the engine will give good performance. At high speeds and under hard acceleration it's best to run a slightly richer mixture in order to keep temperatures down and prevent pre-detonation ("knocking" or "pinging"). Maximum power is usually developed when the mixture is slightly rich, for example the 110 .0433 jet for the GX390.


----------



## drmerdp

Ok so who wants to order to a cam, valvesprings, billet flywheel, and be the first one in the loony bin? 

Hot rodding a 420cc predator for you know... educational purposes... is an easier pill to swallow.


----------



## 1132le

i watched a vid of a guy hoping úp a 420 cc pred
bigger carb intake cam billet rod and flywheel
he guessed 19 hp
didnt even start it thought that was lame
cant see a 212cc getting only 2 hp less
would like to know the torque blowers like torque


----------



## csonni

I haven’t heard it mentioned here that an engine that runs too lean also runs too hot, isn’t that correct?


----------



## northeast

Yes that correct a lean engine runs hotter making it cleaner. It’s all been discussed earlier in the thread.


----------



## jrom

In case this helps anyone, here are Pages 3-10 and 3-11 from the HSS928A/HSS1332A Shop Manual on Adjusting Throttle/Idle Speed.

For those of you disassembling the governor, see the yellow highlighted area. A new LED light element is $70.56 at PartsPak.com


----------



## tabora

Nice catch, JROM! I think you just saved a lot of people from blowing their LED lamps.:rock:


----------



## drmerdp

Weird, most led lamps function under a very wide voltage range. 

I’ve been meaning to check the lighting output voltage and wattage draw of the light. This is some more motivation.


----------



## tabora

drmerdp said:


> Weird, most led lamps function under a very wide voltage range.
> 
> I’ve been meaning to check the lighting output voltage and wattage draw of the light. This is some more motivation.


Here's what I have from [email protected]: 


[email protected] said:


> Okay, here's the scoop:
> 
> Electric start HSS models a have large multi-winding coil, which has three outputs, all AC volts:
> 
> (1) The Motor Coil, used to run the chute motors, generates 9V / 11A @ 3,350 rpm.
> (2) The Charge Coil, used to charge the battery, generates 12V / 0.8A @ 3,000 rpm.
> (3) The Lamp Coil, used to fire the LED worklamp, generates 11.5V / 0.36A @ 1950 rpm (and then goes up from there....don't have an exact spec for rated engine speed).
> 
> The work lamp, chute motors, and of course, battery charging are all converted to DC volts. The work lamp and charging circuits share a regulator/rectifier, while the chute motors have a separate R/R unit.


----------



## FullThrottle

I have seen where a lot of the members have adjusted the RPM above the book specs. which is 3600 +/- 150 RPM,but I haven't seen where they have indicated the LED lights got blown out.



tabora said:


> Nice catch, JROM! I think you just saved a lot of people from blowing their LED lamps.:rock:


----------



## jrom

FullThrottle said:


> I have seen where a lot of the members have adjusted the RPM above the book specs. which is 3600 +/- 150 RPM,but I haven't seen where they have indicated the LED lights got blown out.


Don't think anyone here knows how high is too high RPMs...yet, hopefully no one will experience that.


----------



## tabora

FullThrottle said:


> I have seen where a lot of the members have adjusted the RPM above the book specs. which is 3600 +/- 150 RPM,but I haven't seen where they have indicated the LED lights got blown out.


My guess would be that sustained operation above 3700 RPM *MIGHT* be what would do in the LED, per the service manual. Need to disconnect the lamp, crank up the RPMs and measure what's coming off the coil/rectifier, I guess...


----------



## drmerdp

tabora said:


> My guess would be that sustained operation above 3700 RPM *MIGHT* be what would do in the LED, per the service manual. Need to disconnect the lamp, crank up the RPMs and measure what's coming off the coil/rectifier, I guess...


I’d expected it to be more like 4500+ rpm. Got to measure the voltage at operating speed and extrapolate the voltage at higher revs. I’d expect the lamp to have a 10-32v operating range like most leds.


----------



## RIT333

drmerdp said:


> I’d expected it to be more like 4500+ rpm. Got to measure the voltage at operating speed and extrapolate the voltage at higher revs. I’d expect the lamp to have a 10-32v operating range like most leds.


Sounds like a plan - Who want to volunteer the HSS's engine to run at 4000 RPMs for the sake of science ? I'll bet we don't get any takers. But, you never know...

The $70 for the LED will pale in comparison for the $1K+ for the replacement engine !


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

If I had to guess, I would assume they would build in 35-50% overhead in the lights max input voltage over the max design operating speed.

If the spec is 3600 +/- 150, I doubt 4000rpm is going to be an issue. Wouldnt you be above the power band at that point anyways? Unless the goal is impeller speed, your capacity is likely lower.


----------



## drmerdp

RIT333 said:


> drmerdp said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’d expected it to be more like 4500+ rpm. Got to measure the voltage at operating speed and extrapolate the voltage at higher revs. I’d expect the lamp to have a 10-32v operating range like most leds.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a plan - Who want to volunteer the HSS's engine to run at 4000 RPMs for the sake of science ? I'll bet we don't get any takers. But, you never know...
> 
> The $70 for the LED will pale in comparison for the $1K+ for the replacement engine !
Click to expand...

4000rpm wouldn’t come close to blowing these engines up. I think northeast is running his gx390 at 3900-4000.


----------



## nwcove

somebody should send a link to this thread off to mythbusters for some "no cost to us" results !!


----------



## northeast

I am running 3900 rpm’s light is still working


----------



## RedOctobyr

If concerned, you could probably put a suitable resistor inline, to drop the voltage a bit before the LED. Or use a DC-DC voltage regulator. There must be other methods too.


----------



## tabora

FullThrottle said:


> I have seen where a lot of the members have adjusted the RPM above the book specs. which is 3600 +/- 150 RPM,but I haven't seen where they have indicated the LED lights got blown out.


In the interest of accuracy, I think you're misreading the Max RPM specs... They are:

HSS928A 3,650 +0/-150 - That's 3,500 to 3,650 max.
HSS1332A 3,550 +0/-150 - That's 3,400 to 3,550 max.

FINAL Operating speed range is 50 RPM below those ranges. Exceed at your own peril! :devil:

Seems to me that the jetting increase is more important to performance than the RPM increase.


----------



## FullThrottle

You are correct ,it's the idle RPM that indicates +/- 150 RPM.I have the HSS928A.




tabora said:


> In the interest of accuracy, I think you're misreading the Max RPM specs... They are:
> 
> HSS928A 3,650 +0/-150 - That's 3,500 to 3,650 max.
> HSS1332A 3,550 +0/-150 - That's 3,400 to 3,550 max.
> 
> FINAL Operating speed range is 50 RPM below those ranges. Exceed at your own peril! :devil:
> 
> Seems to me that the jetting increase is more important to performance than the RPM increase.


----------



## florindi

Actually the nominal RPM is 3500 for 1332. The spec is 3500 +/- 150. (3350 - 3650)


----------



## tabora

tabora said:


> My guess would be that sustained operation above 3700 RPM *MIGHT* be what would do in the LED, per the service manual. Need to disconnect the lamp, crank up the RPMs and measure what's coming off the coil/rectifier, I guess...


OK, I measured the voltage at the LED connector (see thumbnail) with a Beckman 3010 with 17 data points from 2100 to 3700 RPM and plotted the results (AC Volts at that connector BTW). Looks like you would hit 32 AC Volts at about 4100 RPM.


----------



## tabora

florindi said:


> Actually the nominal RPM is 3500 for 1332. The spec is 3500 +/- 150. (3350 - 3650)


Nope! Re-read the spec: 3500 +0/-150 = 3350 to 3500, as I said, for FINAL (nominal).


----------



## florindi

tabora said:


> florindi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually the nominal RPM is 3500 for 1332. The spec is 3500 +/- 150. (3350 - 3650)
> 
> 
> 
> Nope! Re-read the spec: 3500 +0/-150 = 3350 to 3500, as I said, for FINAL (nominal).
Click to expand...

**** I don't have my service manual handy. Well I guess I'm running a little faster than the spec... ?



D


----------



## xenon55

Yesterday I installed an OE Honda 1.05mm (.0413") main after I noticing surging at full throttle. I also increased the rpm to 3650 at full throttle, but not under a load. More on that later. I also haven't used my HSS1332 yet, but wanted to be prepared for the storm coming. No leaks from the carb bowl after changing the main btw. 

I used my HSS1332 for the first time this morning on about 6" of snow. The lower 5" was wet snow, perfect for making snow balls. The upper inch was powder and the temp was probably around 30F. I was a little worried that maybe I should have went with the 1.08mm (.0425"), because when I first went into the snow the rpm fluctuated for a few seconds, but then evened out and I never experienced it again. Maybe it needed to be warmed up a little longer... It definitely wasn't the governor kicking in. One thing I noticed after I was done clearing snow, was that my hour meter was showing a max rpm of 3840. I was too busy learning the machine that I never paid attention to the tach as I was using it. So I'm not sure if I was consistently running that rpm under a load, or if it bumped up to that rpm with the governor when it hit a load and would then settle down to a lower rpm. I'll be checking the next time I use it and may adjust the rpm down.

Not a true test of the machine, but so far I'm happy with it. No clogging issues, but the back of the bucket, gearbox, and augers did have the wet snow packed on them. The augers were so packed with snow, you would think they were the solid type that MTD built machines use.


----------



## tabora

florindi said:


> **** I don't have my service manual handy. Well I guess I'm running a little faster than the spec... ?
> D


Just go back to *post #468*.

jrom posted the appropriate service manual pages.


----------



## tabora

xenon55 said:


> ... I used my HSS1332 for the first time this morning on about 6" of snow. The lower 5" was wet snow, perfect for making snow balls. The upper inch was powder and the temp was probably around 30F. ...my hour meter was showing a max rpm of 3840...


Your experience mirrored mine today. Same amount & type of snow (temp about 39F here) with no clogging, but augers packed full. My Max RPM for the job was 3960, and my no-load RPM is also at 3650.


----------



## grabber

tabora said:


> Your experience mirrored mine today. Same amount & type of snow (temp about 39F here) with no clogging, but augers packed full. My Max RPM for the job was 3960, and my no-load RPM is also at 3650.


With this change in RPM and main jet, did you notice the blower shooting the snow at a longuer distance ?


----------



## tabora

grabber said:


> With this change in RPM and main jet, did you notice the blower shooting the snow at a longuer distance ?


I would say that it throws ideal powdery or hard crusty snow the advertised distance of 55+ feet, wet snow nearly as far, maybe 50+ feet, and slush probably 25 feet if it's at least 3 inches deep, and maybe 8-10 feet if it's less than 3 inches deep. 

Before re-jetting/RPM adjustment, other than ideal snow went only half the maximum distance, if that. Slush was lucky to clear the chute.

Other than getting the Oil Tank mod, and wiring up my extra lights, I'm pretty much done modding - totally happy with the performance now.


----------



## xenon55

tabora said:


> Your experience mirrored mine today. Same amount & type of snow (temp about 39F here) with no clogging, but augers packed full. My Max RPM for the job was 3960, and my no-load RPM is also at 3650.


I was out at 6am blowing, so the temp hadn't risen yet. I was already up walking the dog, so I figured why not? Lol 

Plus, I've been sick all week and didn't feel like going back out again.


----------



## xenon55

grabber said:


> With this change in RPM and main jet, did you notice the blower shooting the snow at a longuer distance ?


I can't comment on how my HSS1332 was before, because I never used it when it was stock, but I was impressed with how far it threw the snow. The sidewalk in front of my house is probably 20' from my front door and I had to be conscious of where I had the chute aimed and angled. My driveway is behind my house, with my neighbors house probably 40-50' feet away. I didn't pay too much attention to how far the snow went (I was focused more on following the curve of the driveway), but it certainly seemed like it was very close to his house.

Most people would consider this blower overkill for the size of my lot, but I've been here 15 years and didn't have to start clearing my front walk until the town changed the law March '17 requiring the home owners to do it. I live on a state rd. and the plow trucks have to come around a corner on a slight uphill before they get to my house. So they aren't going very fast and typically the snow only gets thrown a few feet past the sidewalk. The majority of it ends up on the sidewalk. When the town cleared it, the contractor usually used a mini walk-behind skid steer to clear the sidewalk on my street. If I didn't have to clear the sidewalk, I'd still be using my Ariens 8526.


----------



## drmerdp

tabora said:


> OK, I measured the voltage at the LED connector (see thumbnail) with a Beckman 3010 with 17 data points from 2100 to 3700 RPM and plotted the results (AC Volts at that connector BTW). Looks like you would hit 32 AC Volts at about 4100 RPM.


Cool, thanks for graphing it out. It’s nice to have a visual reference. 

Question. Did you take you measurements with the light connected, or disconnected?


----------



## tabora

drmerdp said:


> Cool, thanks for graphing it out. It’s nice to have a visual reference.
> 
> Question. Did you take you measurements with the light connected, or disconnected?


I figured you'd ask that question, drmerdp! I measured a couple of data points both with/without the lamp, and they appeared to be the same. (I'm betting that the LED doesn't need more than 12ish volts for full output.) Since I was planning to go beyond the max RPM spec, I disconnected the lamp and then continued to measure up to the 3700 RPM mark. 

As mentioned in a post above, I noticed when blowing today that the max recorded RPM for the session was 3960, with the no-load RPM set to 3650. That is getting perilously close (~31VAC) to the 32VAC point, at least for me. If northeast is running no-load at 3900, he may be peaking at 4200 or so if the overage is similar, which would be over 32.5VAC.


----------



## drmerdp

tabora said:


> I figured you'd ask that question, drmerdp! I measured a couple of data points both with/without the lamp, and they appeared to be the same. (I'm betting that the LED doesn't need more than 12ish volts for full output.) Since I was planning to go beyond the max RPM spec, I disconnected the lamp and then continued to measure up to the 3700 RPM mark.
> 
> As mentioned in a post above, I noticed when blowing today that the max recorded RPM for the session was 3960, with the no-load RPM set to 3650. That is getting perilously close (~31VAC) to the 32VAC point, at least for me. If northeast is running no-load at 3900, he may be peaking at 4200 or so if the overage is similar, which would be over 32.5VAC.


Going on the assumption that these led headlights have a safe operating ceiling of 32v, the service manuals rpm warning makes sense.

Maybe a simple ~30-32v Zener diode is all that’s needed to ensure safe voltage to the light at much higher then stock rpms. Something to think about.

Did you happen to measure the lamps wattage draw?


----------



## northeast

I don’t think it’s possible to get 4200 rpm’s. I believe spark is cut out at 4000.


----------



## drmerdp

northeast said:


> I don’t think it’s possible to get 4200 rpm’s. I believe spark is cut out at 4000.


Yeah it looks like after 2011 Honda went to a digital cdi coil with timing advance and a 4000rpm rev limiter. 

Solution. Good for go kart motors. 

Coil, Digital Ignition, GX270/390 (UT2) NO REV LIMITER : Genuine Honda


----------



## northeast

Some valve and head work (shave a 1000 off the head) add a cam and stroke it and the GX390 will rev to 7000 rpm’s and produce 25 horsepower. And still be reliable.


----------



## northeast

.1000 sorry


----------



## tabora

drmerdp said:


> Did you happen to measure the lamps wattage draw?


I did not. I just finished making a switch box for my external lights, and I added a switch for the internal lamp as well. I have another set of the LED connectors, so I'll interrupt the circuit with the switch at that point. I can easily measure the draw once the additional wires are in place.

When I install it, the battery power management meter shown will let me measure each of the other individual lamp draws, as well as keeping track of the battery charge state. Both the charging coil output and the Optimate 4 charger output will run through it, too, to give a complete picture.


----------



## drmerdp

tabora said:


> I did not. I just finished making a switch box for my external lights, and I added a switch for the internal lamp as well. I have another set of the LED connectors, so I'll interrupt the circuit with the switch at that point. I can easily measure the draw once the additional wires are in place.
> 
> When I install it, the battery power management meter shown will let me measure each of the other individual lamp draws, as well as keeping track of the battery charge state. Both the charging coil output and the Optimate 4 charger output will run through it, too, to give a complete picture.


Cool, looking forward to seeing the finished product.


----------



## grump99

So I swapped out my hand drilled "0.042" for a Honda 105. Black smoke is gone. No lean popping at any throttle position. No hunting for RPM. Very satisfied so far.


----------



## drmerdp

grump99 said:


> So I swapped out my hand drilled "0.042" for a Honda 105. Black smoke is gone. No lean popping at any throttle position. No hunting for RPM. Very satisfied so far.


Did you use a #58 gauge drill? I’ve noticed that my cheapo gauge drills I bought from amazon years ago don’t line up exactly with the numbers the charts dictate.

But my cheapo set from harbor freight is very accurate. I’m holding an aftermarket gx series .043 jet and my #57 bit fits like a glove.

In a couple years You might find yourself needing to jump a size or to enriched the mixture again. 

I’m currently at .042 and the 390 runs like a champ.


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

Drills do tend to make holes slightly larger than the drill itself. Especially in soft and thin materials, its not super easy to get a precise hole size. You generally would want to use a drill a bit smaller than your intended hole size. Hand drilling makes things even more difficult, as you're likely to drill it a touch off axis from the existing hole. The hole will help center the drill, but only once you get partly through it and put a bit of a taper on one side, which is undesirable in this case and will enhance flow.

I'd say for enlarging a small hole in brass with a hand drill, shoot for a drill ~0.002-0.003" smaller than your intended hole size. If you have a rigid setup, youd probably want to be closer to 0.001" undersized.

Drilling jets works fine, but if you know the size jet you want, its probably a safer bet to just get the right one. Drilling is a good solution when you dont know the desired jet size, have a broad selection of drills, and want to see how the thing runs on 20 different size jets.


----------



## Freddy Ford

I just installed the #108 .0425 jet today since I have a baseline now and much, much better. The process is very easy on this machine. To anyone new to this, if you can change your oil without freaking out you can do this even easier. Machine runs smooth as butter and definitely has more power. I am sticking with this size with no need to experimenter further. Stock jet was #102 .0402 in my machine.


----------



## Itsa62vette

Sorry for being lazy, but without reading 52 pages. What size jet would you recommend for a GX270 and also if possible a link on where to purchase. 

Thanks!!!


----------



## bigtim1985

Itsa62vette said:


> Sorry for being lazy, but without reading 52 pages. What size jet would you recommend for a GX270 and also if possible a link on where to purchase.
> 
> Thanks!!!


https://www.ebay.com/itm/035-Honda-GX160-GX200-Clone-Predator-Engine-Carb-Fuel-Jet-Kit-Go-Kart-Racing/191025662162?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

https://www.ebay.com/itm/036-Honda-GX160-GX200-Clone-Predator-Engine-Carb-Fuel-Jet-Kit-Go-Kart-Racing/191025662341?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I bought both for my HSS928AT. Installed the .036. Seems to run better, and comes off of choke faster. Haven't had enough snow to thoroughly test it though.


----------



## Itsa62vette

Thanks so much, that makes life easier!!!



bigtim1985 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/035-Honda-GX160-GX200-Clone-Predator-Engine-Carb-Fuel-Jet-Kit-Go-Kart-Racing/191025662162?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/036-Honda-GX160-GX200-Clone-Predator-Engine-Carb-Fuel-Jet-Kit-Go-Kart-Racing/191025662341?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> I bought both for my HSS928AT. Installed the .036. Seems to run better, and comes off of choke faster. Haven't had enough snow to thoroughly test it though.


----------



## grump99

drmerdp said:


> grump99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I swapped out my hand drilled "0.042" for a Honda 105. Black smoke is gone. No lean popping at any throttle position. No hunting for RPM. Very satisfied so far.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you use a #58 gauge drill? I’ve noticed that my cheapo gauge drills I bought from amazon years ago don’t line up exactly with the numbers the charts dictate.
> 
> But my cheapo set from harbor freight is very accurate. I’m holding an aftermarket gx series .043 jet and my #57 bit fits like a glove.
> 
> In a couple years You might find yourself needing to jump a size or to enriched the mixture again.
> 
> I’m currently at .042 and the 390 runs like a champ.
Click to expand...

Yes, I used a #58. Confirmed diameter with 3 separate micrometers. However, since I hand-drilled, I may have ended up making the hole bigger than intended. I had puffs of black smoke and significant soot on the spark plug. 

The Honda jets are a precise dimension, which I like. The 105 seems to work fine, but I only got to use it with a light snow. When we get a heavy snow, I will report back. If it still feels short on power, I will bump it to 108.


----------



## drmerdp

grump99 said:


> Yes, I used a #58. Confirmed diameter with 3 separate micrometers. However, since I hand-drilled, I may have ended up making the hole bigger than intended. I had puffs of black smoke and significant soot on the spark plug.
> 
> The Honda jets are a precise dimension, which I like. The 105 seems to work fine, but I only got to use it with a light snow. When we get a heavy snow, I will report back. If it still feels short on power, I will bump it to 108.


How many hours do you have on the engine? If you have really low hours, you can expect an increase in power as the hours accumulate.

How does a #57 bit fit in your hand drilled #58 jet? When ever possible, I will buy the proper jet, in a pinch I drill or ream.


----------



## grump99

drmerdp said:


> grump99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I used a #58. Confirmed diameter with 3 separate micrometers. However, since I hand-drilled, I may have ended up making the hole bigger than intended. I had puffs of black smoke and significant soot on the spark plug.
> 
> The Honda jets are a precise dimension, which I like. The 105 seems to work fine, but I only got to use it with a light snow. When we get a heavy snow, I will report back. If it still feels short on power, I will bump it to 108.
> 
> 
> 
> How many hours do you have on the engine? If you have really low hours, you can expect an increase in power as the hours accumulate.
> 
> How does a #57 bit fit in your hand drilled #58 jet? When ever possible, I will buy the proper jet, in a pinch I drill or ream.
Click to expand...

The #57 did not fit when I checked. However, the hole may be oblong. Only have 7 hours on engine. Going to stick with 105 for now. It ran fine with the 102, just wanted a bit more grunt.


----------



## drmerdp

If the #57 doesn’t fit then you are likely right at ~.042. 

I have 4 hours on my gx390 and my .042 / #108 jet seems to be perfect. For now. I don’t know where you live but it might have to do with your elevation. I’m 1300ft.

But Hey, if it’s running good then stick with it. Once you get some real hours on the machine then maybe bump up the jet. It’s all good.


----------



## Stephen0523

Great great information here! 
I have a 2016 HONDA HSS1332ACTD and I am up here in Canada's east coast. Could someone tell me if I would need to reject my machine? Is there a way to measure what size jet is in there? It seems to have a fair bit of power or even in deep snow though.


----------



## tabora

Stephen0523 said:


> Great great information here!
> I have a 2016 HONDA HSS1332ACTD and I am up here in Canada's east coast. Could someone tell me if I would need to reject my machine? Is there a way to measure what size jet is in there? It seems to have a fair bit of power or even in deep snow though.


Assuming it's stock, it would be #102 = .0402 You can simply remove the jet and the number will be stamped on it. The procedure is very easy and is documented elsewhere in this thread.
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1506369-post435.html

Some have found happiness with a #105 or #108, while I am at #110 = .0433

Beaucoup power and no surging at any speed, and almost no choke required for starting, which can immediately be turned off.


----------



## sock-feet

I just put a 420 HF engine on my restoration project and it seems to run great as is. Doesn't bog down at all. I'm not sure if anyone else posted this, but there is a guy on Ebay that has an adjustable high speed jet that fits many of the Honda and HF clone engines. I works like the adjustable jet like the Tec and B&S engines. 

I bought one in case I would need it in the future.

Here is the link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HF-Predato...657008&hash=item4b39fd7aaf:g:QmYAAOSwF71Z144Y


----------



## tabora

sock-feet said:


> I just put a 420 HF engine on my restoration project and it seems to run great as is. Doesn't bog down at all. I'm not sure if anyone else posted this, but there is a guy on Ebay that has an adjustable high speed jet that fits many of the Honda and HF clone engines. I works like the adjustable jet like the Tec and B&S engines.
> 
> I bought one in case I would need it in the future.
> 
> Here is the link:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/HF-Predato...657008&hash=item4b39fd7aaf:g:QmYAAOSwF71Z144Y


Just be aware that he won't ship to Canada... I've already purchased one and reshipped it to a forum member in Newfoundland. The forwarding cost is about $11.


----------



## drmerdp

Stephen0523 said:


> Great great information here!
> I have a 2016 HONDA HSS1332ACTD and I am up here in Canada's east coast. Could someone tell me if I would need to reject my machine? Is there a way to measure what size jet is in there? It seems to have a fair bit of power or even in deep snow though.


Generally the .042 /#108 jet delivers the best bump in power while accommodating a wide variety of climates and elevations. 

I’m in northern New Jersey runnning a #108, at ~1300ft and my GX390 with ~5 hours on it runs like a champ. I have a #110 / .043 jet on hand ready to swap as nessesary. 

A hs1332 I worked on in January had over 100 hours on it and Needed a #110 / .043 jet to keep it from hunting/surging because of running lean. 

As engines fully break in, compression is at its max, and rotating resistance is at its lowest more fuel becomes nessesary for ideal operation.


----------



## Stephen0523

So putting in a different size jet is simply a matter of unscrewing the original one and screwing in the new one? I read on the forms of people we're doing some drilling?


----------



## vmax29

You can order the proper sized jet online or eBay. If you look back in this thread people posted links to a few good source sites as well. Drilling is not necessary but is an option if you don’t have the right size on hand. I like to have a few different sizes to change out and the factory machined jets will be marked with the correct size.


----------



## grabber

buy them directly at Honda dealer. 8.00 Canadian dollars. cheap ennough.
At the time i looked , 0.0425 was back ordered. So i ordered 0.041 and installed it. Did notice a change in the sound of the engine at full throttle. Problem.... here they dont forecast any snow... i think winter is over.
I brought my original jet at the shop where i work and had our machinist to drill it to 0.042
Will test 0.041 when we have snow... then swap the 0.042

I am at see level here.. so i assume air has more oxygen in it... so more fuel is needed to have a proper mix... I bet 0.042 will be the best for me here. Make sense ?


----------



## DriverRider

grabber said:


> buy them directly at Honda dealer. 8.00 Canadian dollars. cheap ennough.
> At the time i looked , 0.0425 was back ordered. So i ordered 0.041 and installed it. Did notice a change in the sound of the engine at full throttle. Problem.... here they dont forecast any snow... i think winter is over.
> I brought my original jet at the shop where i work and had our machinist to drill it to 0.042
> Will test 0.041 when we have snow... then swap the 0.042 I am at see level here.. so i assume air has more oxygen in it... so more fuel is needed to have a proper mix... I bet 0.042 will be the best for me here. Make sense ?


There is absolutely no reason in the world of engine mechanics someone would have to wait for snow to adjust a fuel/air mix on an engine.:smile_big:
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1503401-post423.html
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1503033-post420.html


----------



## Freddy Ford

Unless you have access to a machinist like Grabber did, please just buy the proper jet (and pick up a spare bowl gasket just in case). The tolerances are so small that the margin for error when drilling is quite high. I can confirm that .042 was also the proper size for me near sea level on a new machine. The procedure is almost too easy. Any CARB certified machine will benefit from tuning, even if it runs decently on stock tuning like mine did. I've tuned multiple chainsaws and blowers over the years where they were almost unusable out of the box (Husqvarna has been the worst and needs a special splined tool to adjust). Don't underestimate just how severe the EPA emissions are today, combined with lower quality fuel.


----------



## 1132le

thats the prudent thing o do test under load with the .041 then swap and retest with the .042
smart move


----------



## grabber

DriverRider said:


> There is absolutely no reason in the world of engine mechanics someone would have to wait for snow to adjust a fuel/air mix on an engine.:smile_big:
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1503401-post423.html
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1503033-post420.html


Agree with you totally. 
Playing with choke at full throttle will give me a pretty good idea if too rich or not

thanks


----------



## RIT333

DriverRider said:


> There is absolutely no reason in the world of engine mechanics someone would have to wait for snow to adjust a fuel/air mix on an engine.:smile_big:


Yep - Isn't that what kids are for ? LOL


----------



## feh

Took my spark plug out to check, and this is what it look like after about 4h running stock and 7h running with the new 0.043” jet. 


















Seems clear it was running lean originally , but with the blackened rim seems like it was running richer afterwards. Kinda hard to tell unless I’m using a new plug. Any thoughts?


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

Both look rather lean to me for the application. I'd sway towards a bit too rich since that gives more buffer for unusually cold weather, engine wear, gunk in the carb, fuel contamination, and tends to make a smoother running engine. I wouldn't be terribly worried about putting quite a bit more jet in than that.

Heres the plug out of my my main machine. I didn't look at it since it was replaced a few years ago, but it looks about right for a cold weather engine. Rich for sure, but its far from fouled.


----------



## drmerdp

Those plugs look good to me. Id avoid Iridium plugs though.

Fun fact, iridium and platinum spark plugs offer increased longevity, but reduced performance due to lower conductivity.

Just saying, for anyone thinking of replacing their spark plug.


----------



## RIT333

drmerdp said:


> Fun fact, iridium and platinum spark plugs offer increased longevity, but reduced performance due to lower conductivity.
> .


Could very well be true, but why do so many autos come with them as standard equipment ?


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

I suppose I should note, I'm much more concerned with reliability and longevity than peak performance on a snowblower. The Iridium plug offers better fouling resistance and should be a lifetime plug. I suspect the difference in performance from most any spark plug on a small engine is going to be effectively zero.

OEM's prefer them primarily for the life. People largely expect to gas and go for at least 100K miles. Theres nothing wrong with copper plugs, especially for a small engine. One copper plug most likely will keep a small engine running for its life, its just going to spend more time running less than optimal, assuming you never change it.


----------



## Freddy Ford

feh said:


> Took my spark plug out to check, and this is what it look like after about 4h running stock and 7h running with the new 0.043” jet.
> 
> Seems clear it was running lean originally , but with the blackened rim seems like it was running richer afterwards. Kinda hard to tell unless I’m using a new plug. Any thoughts?


That looks really good. I'd leave it at .043 as the insulator looks perfect. The bottom blackened ring represents the idle or low speed setting which looks normal for the application.


----------



## Jarsh

Just want to say thank you to tabora for grabbing one of John's, Waterlooboy2hp, adjustable needles for me. 

I've been on the fence about ordering one. When I inquired, John told me he doesn't ship to Canada. Tabora had mentioned them in an earlier post so I sent him a PM asking if he would be willing to order one for me. Thankfully he obliged. 

Received the package today. Very impressed with John's work. I'm about to go install it. Before doing so I just wanted to send a thank you. Thankfully we have forums like this, with great people, where we can help one another. Though I have yet to do so, I do plan to become a full member. Without these forums there would be much less information and help available. Certainly an awesome resource to have access to that's for sure.

Just checked a link I have bookmarked and see there are 2 available in the event someone may be interested:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HF-Predator...peed-Needle-Assembly-/323095460527?rmvSB=true


----------



## DriverRider

feh said:


> Took my spark plug out to check, and this is what it look like after about 4h running stock and 7h running with the new 0.043” jet. Seems clear it was running lean originally , but with the blackened rim seems like it was running richer afterwards. Kinda hard to tell unless I’m using a new plug. Any thoughts?


Light tan in color is what you want from a plug and would call that a text book example.:smile2:


----------



## drmerdp

Just wanted to post some HS720 jet and rpm info.

I went to #82 .032 jet and it runs great! 

The engine speed was ~3400rpm factory. I bumped it to 3600 by bending out the governor spring tab a bit. (Like the real old tecumsehs)

At 3600rpm the auger speed comes in at 1190rpm. 

I did blow some snow with it last storm, and it’s a beast with the new jet and rpm bump. Noticeable increase in throwing distance too.

I highly recommend it. 👍


----------



## DriverRider

ZOMGVTEK said:


> I'd sway towards a bit too rich since that gives more buffer for unusually cold weather, engine wear, gunk in the carb, fuel contamination, and tends to make a smoother running engine. I wouldn't be terribly worried about putting quite a bit more jet in than that. Heres the plug out of my my main machine. Rich for sure, but its far from fouled.


A rich mixture accomplishes nothing but a dirty running engine with excessive fuel consumption. Smoothest running has always been obtained by following all manufacturers procedures for setting a mixture screw to a mid-way point which promotes complete combustion. It is desirable to be slightly lean instead of slightly rich with your typical engine if one has to make a choice.


----------



## legarem

Jarsh said:


> Just checked a link I have bookmarked and see there are 2 available in the event someone may be interested:
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/HF-Predator...peed-Needle-Assembly-/323095460527?rmvSB=true


Too bad. He doesn't ship in Canada. I am always wondering why some USA sellers don't want to ship here. There's not more hassle or risk for them to ship something here.


----------



## tabora

legarem said:


> Too bad. He doesn't ship in Canada. I am always wondering why some USA sellers don't want to ship here. There's not more hassle or risk for them to ship something here.


Well, you DO have to fill out the customs paperwork. Probably added 15+ minutes for the process when I just sent one up to Newfoundland. The forwarding cost is about $11, which is more than he charged for the jet, including free shipping to Maine.

Let me know if you want one (anyone!)!


----------



## grabber

Just tested my HSS1332 with the new jet 0.041 Oh man, just the sound of it. it runs soooo smooth. Will look at the plugs and if it looks good. I might crank the rpm to 3600 and leave it as is... sooo smooth.


----------



## Jarsh

Re: Adjustable needle/jet

First off, I'm very impressed with John's work. Very nicely machined that's for sure. 

Being this unit is made for the Predator and clone engines I thought it would be the answer to my prayers of having an adjustable for varying temps.. not to mention cheaper than messing with purchasing various size bits and/or jets to get to the correct size. Seems simple enough, right?

My package came today thanks to Tabora. I installed it earlier, HSS622TC, without difficulty. Had a leak where the bolt passes through the bowl but a slight snug corrected that. First time with an adjustable so I sifted through some online info to find the base setting(s). Lightly seated the needle and backed of 3/4 turn...a way to go. Happy camper thus far. However, when I went to adjust the needle I couldn't get the engine to stumble in either direction. ( 

From the thread that John started: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...217-212-predator-adjustable-carb-project.html

The HS jets seem to run from the stock .028, all the way up to .048. Not sure how much I should drill out the HS jet to. I guess I could go all the way to .048, as the adjustment will cover all of them. So my stock #75 is .0295. To me I figured this out to have worked.

From his listing on EBay, it comes with a .052 which is a lot larger than my requirements. However, if the needle covers from .028-.052 ,#71? to between a #125 & 130. I don't understand as to why this isn't working for me. I'm going to try and send him a message to inquire. I'd really like to get this setup working. 

I didn't try screwing the needle in any further with an key for fear of damaging something.


----------



## xenon55

grabber said:


> Just tested my HSS1332 with the new jet 0.041 Oh man, just the sound of it. it runs soooo smooth. Will look at the plugs and if it looks good. I might crank the rpm to 3600 and leave it as is... sooo smooth.


If you bump the rpm, make sure to check what rpm it's running at under a load.


----------



## DriverRider

Jarsh said:


> I thought it would be the answer to my prayers of having an adjustable for varying temps..


Where did you learn that adjusting a mixture screw is required or advisable for a change in air temp on your small engine? Do you do an initial early morning adjustment followed by readjustments throughout the day as temps climb?


----------



## Jarsh

Read somewhere that temp/air density etc. can affect performance. All I know is that the thing does run better with since increasing my main. Got the adjustable to better fine tune rather than going through the expense of purchasing drill bits online or jets. It was cheaper in the long run and hopefully with a better outcome.


----------



## Stephen0523

Hey, Jarsh can you post a link to where you purchased your adjustable jet?


----------



## 1132le

Jarsh said:


> Read somewhere that temp/air density etc. can affect performance. All I know is that the thing does run better with since increasing my main. Got the adjustable to better fine tune rather than going through the expense of purchasing drill bits online or jets. It was cheaper in the long run and hopefully with a better outcome.


Jarsh it does dont mind the banter


----------



## FullThrottle

Hi Stephen

He got it from ebay.ca go back to post #538 ,the link is there.




Stephen0523 said:


> Hey, Jarsh can you post a link to where you purchased your adjustable jet?


----------



## grabber

I changed my mainJet today for a drilled 0.042. Didnt notice difference form 0.041.. except that when the governor kicks in, i can see a little puff of black smoke comming from the Exaust. this black smoke is just a puff.. it doesnt last. I did not notice this with the previous jet 0.041.
wonder if i should keep the 0.042 ? This jet as been drilled, so maybe it is richer than a real 0.042 from Honda.

What do you guys think ?


----------



## northeast

I personally would not be at all concerned. We have become so accustomed to the modern engine running so squeaky clean that we forget how a carbureted engine runs. They are a little dirty when tuned right. If it was blowing smoke then I would worry but a puff here or there would not concern me. Change the oil on time and let it rip.


----------



## grabber

northeast said:


> I personally would not be at all concerned. We have become so accustomed to the modern engine running so squeaky clean that we forget how a carbureted engine runs. They are a little dirty when tuned right. If it was blowing smoke then I would worry but a puff here or there would not concern me. Change the oil on time and let it rip.


I did increase the rpm a little... i do not know exactly what the RPM is now though... i have counted how many turn out of the top speed screw though.... i did turn out 1 complete turn, this is my only point of reference if i want to go back at the stock settings... do you guys recall how many turns out you had to do, to get your rpm to 3600 ?(or whatever the rpm)

thanks


----------



## vmax29

I finally tried out the 1332 in 6” of wet slop after this last storm. It did throw a bit of smoke on startup but it ran nice through all speed settings. No clogging and lots of power all over. RPM is set at 3450 (factory setting) It’s got the .043 jet installed. It tossed the slush very FAR. I’m glad it works good on this because it beats shoveling that heavy mess. I purposely throttled down and disengaged the auger to see if it would pack up. It blew everything clean through as soon as the auger was started again. I have been spraying everything with Ariens sno-jet which helps keep the chute slick. Very happy with the Honda. Thanks Northeast and all that contributed to this thread!


----------



## Freddy Ford

grabber said:


> I changed my mainJet today for a drilled 0.042. Didnt notice difference form 0.041.. except that when the governor kicks in, i can see a little puff of black smoke comming from the Exaust. this black smoke is just a puff.. it doesnt last. I did not notice this with the previous jet 0.041.
> wonder if i should keep the 0.042 ? This jet as been drilled, so maybe it is richer than a real 0.042 from Honda.
> 
> What do you guys think ?


You should not be getting any puff of smoke with a .042 jet. When drilling out a main jet unless you have access to a professional machine shop, you will always oversize it. Just buy a .042 jet if you want it perfect, because you will have difficulty determining exactly what size you're running now.


----------



## Bob_S

When I took my HSS928 out of storage last Fall I found a mouse nest under the Air filter housing. Be warned that Honda does not use Air filters! In their snow blowers!
My story ends with a new OEM carburetor and during the process I opened up the jet. I cant say for sure what made a major improvement but it performed much better than it had during my first two years of use. 
I wonder if a OEM carburetor (used for many different small Honda engines is perhaps set differently than when installed on a specific snow blower.


----------



## grabber

Freddy Ford said:


> You should not be getting any puff of smoke with a .042 jet. When drilling out a main jet unless you have access to a professional machine shop, you will always oversize it. Just buy a .042 jet if you want it perfect, because you will have difficulty determining exactly what size you're running now.


Agree with you totally here. 0.042 was backordered, so i decided to drill it. As soon i get the one from Honda, i will replace it.


----------



## drmerdp

Bob_S said:


> When I took my HSS928 out of storage last Fall I found a mouse nest under the Air filter housing. Be warned that Honda does not use Air filters! In their snow blowers!
> My story ends with a new OEM carburetor and during the process I opened up the jet. I cant say for sure what made a major improvement but it performed much better than it had during my first two years of use.
> I wonder if a OEM carburetor (used for many different small Honda engines is perhaps set differently than when installed on a specific snow blower.


Snowblowers do not use air filters. Some have a mesh screens of some sort. Snow duty engines come with a slightly larger jet then general purpose engines. Nothing more then that really. 

You should consider bumping up to a #90 .035 jet. Much improvement over the stock jet.


----------



## drmerdp

grabber said:


> Agree with you totally here. 0.042 was backordered, so i decided to drill it. As soon i get the one from Honda, i will replace it.


Drills will make the hole slightly larger then intended, but not much more. Even If your #58 drill over sized to .0425, it’s still around the .042-.043 range which has proven to work great. Was a #57 (.043) drill to large to fit. 

You may not have a lot of hours on your machine yet, but you’ll appreciate a .043 after it’s fully broken in. A puff of smoke isn’t anything to be concerned with.


----------



## grabber

drmerdp said:


> Drills will make the hole slightly larger then intended, but not much more. Even If your #58 drill over sized to .0425, it’s still around the .042-.043 range which has proven to work great. Was a #57 (.043) drill to large to fit.
> 
> You may not have a lot of hours on your machine yet, but you’ll appreciate a .043 after it’s fully broken in. A puff of smoke isn’t anything to be concerned with.


I got 63 hrs on the clock.

I did clean the plug yesterday before the 0.042 was installed. I have only 30minutes on it since, but checked the plug today, and it is still clean, no deposits . Maybe not ennough hrs since the new jet installed to see if too rich from reading the plug. They are forcasting snow next tuesday and wednesday, will have ennough time to test.

But, honnest here, maybe im wrong, but i dont see any improvement from 0.041 to 0.0425 too much... if the base of the plug become too dark, i will replace with 0.041 and be done with it.

Still looking for someone here to borrow something to get the current RPM at full throttle. Im not too much im sure right now, even if i did unscrew the nut a full turn out.

Regards,


----------



## northeast

I ran my rpm’s right up to the electronic governor. Then backed the screw off a bit. I am probably running 3900 rpm’s.


----------



## Freddy Ford

grabber said:


> ... if the base of the plug become too dark, i will replace with 0.041 and be done with it.
> Regards,


Base of the plug is your low speed setting (PMS screw), not main jet. Your insulator color is what determines your main jet and plug heat range performance. I have also read from others that there is little perceptible difference between .041 and .042 on a new machine, yet .043 has been commented on being good after you have a lot of hours. Therefore I went with .042 myself so I have a little wiggle room as it gets more hours. It's perfect. With your puff of smoke I bet you are over .043, as it it soooo easy to over-drill by hand no matter how careful you are. Your talking thousandths of an inch here.


----------



## grabber

Freddy Ford said:


> Base of the plug is your low speed setting (PMS screw), not main jet. Your insulator color is what determines your main jet and plug heat range performance. I have also read from others that there is little perceptible difference between .041 and .042 on a new machine, yet .043 has been commented on being good after you have a lot of hours. Therefore I went with .042 myself so I have a little wiggle room as it gets more hours. It's perfect. With your puff of smoke I bet you are over .043, as it it soooo easy to over-drill by hand no matter how careful you are. Your talking thousandths of an inch here.


according to this :
Reading spark plugs | Tuning Spark Plugs

or this

Wallace Racing - Spark Plug Reading

RE :
*NOTE:* If the base ring has a full turn of color with some spots of heavy dry soot, then jetting is too rich, *REGARDLESS,* if the porcelain is "BONE-WHITE", jetting is still TOO RICH !!! 
*NOTE:* Do not look at the porcelain to read jetting !!!


----------



## malba2366

A few members on here reported fuel leaking out of the bowl after changing the Jet. Was the cause of the leaks ever determined? Was it bending of the bowl, or failing to align it properly or something else that caused it? How was the issue fixed? I don't remember the 2 people who reported leaks reporting back on how they fixed it.


----------



## Freddy Ford

Those links state a method (called a Plug Chop) that is only used under specific conditions, such as "This is only valid if you shut-off the engine after the finish line then tow the car back to the pits where you remove the plugs for reading !!" and "VALID ONLY for full load acceleration or steady state dyno tests". I am sharing how I was taught after working for a small engine mechanic for 6 years in my youth for reading plugs used under normal circumstances.


----------



## Freddy Ford

Here is a general visual guide.


----------



## grabber

Freddy Ford said:


> Those links state a method (called a Plug Chop) that is only used under specific conditions, such as "This is only valid if you shut-off the engine after the finish line then tow the car back to the pits where you remove the plugs for reading !!" and "VALID ONLY for full load acceleration or steady state dyno tests". I am sharing how I was taught after working for a small engine mechanic for 6 years in my youth for reading plugs used under normal circumstances.


actually this is what i do when i read the plug.... as soon the governer kicks off, i turn the key ingnition to off.
They are forcasting a snow storm next wednesday... will check after.

Regards


----------



## drmerdp

malba2366 said:


> A few members on here reported fuel leaking out of the bowl after changing the Jet. Was the cause of the leaks ever determined? Was it bending of the bowl, or failing to align it properly or something else that caused it? How was the issue fixed? I don't remember the 2 people who reported leaks reporting back on how they fixed it.


Don’t know why people had leaking issues. Must have been a full moon or something. Simple tip, Mark the bowls orientation before removing and realign to the mark when installing.


----------



## old ope mechanic

just for the guys having problems getting jets try https://www.ombwarehouse.com/performance-parts/ lots of jets plus more for hondas and clones


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

Could it be people are putting the bowl upside down onto a dirty surface, and getting small debris onto the sealing lip? I'd assume that, or they they're just not tightening the bowl nut enough. Those need to be moderately tight for the washer to seal. I wouldn't think its from the bowl being warped, the seal is moderately compliant.


----------



## Freddy Ford

A replacement carb bowl gasket is very cheap. I ordered one with my jets just in case, but it doesn't warrant any anxiety in removing the bowl. Just be mindful of the bowls orientation by using a marker, and don't overtighten when reinstalling.


----------



## Lake Effect

Installed a #92 main jet(99101-ZH80920) in my HSS928ATD today. Noticed a difference right away in starting and engine smoothness. It doesn't pop anymore when decelerating from fast to idle. Tried it out in the snow and it takes more to load up the engine. I would recommend the jet change!

The plug color was on the lean side prior to the jet replacement, as I suspected. I'll check it after some run time with the #92 jet.


----------



## superbuick

The leak issue was caused by not having the drain bolt aligned perfectly at 30 degrees clockwise off vertical when looking up at the bowl from the bottom. Leaks stopped when aligned according to the manual.


----------



## Boston_Rob

Boston_Rob said:


> Update #2: Very happy with the 92 jet in the HS- K1 GX270.


They say we got 20" here in Lowell,MA. but there seems to be more, certainly in drifts. Anyway, I was a hold out and waited until the final flakes fell and the EOD at its very worse to test today. Extremely pleased with performance. I was able to dial in the speed and just motored along slowly with full buckets and no ride-up. The snow pack was a perfect consistency, not wicked heavy but far from powder too. Thanks again Northeast for starting this jet journey. :devil:


----------



## RedOctobyr

I'm by you, I got about 22-24" total. Measured 20-21" last night, and had an estimated 2-3" on the ground this morning. 

I'm glad the change worked well for you! I wish my machine had the versatility of a hydrostatic transmission


----------



## Gator9329

Those with the HSS928 What have you been feeling for jet sizes? Is #92 the best or would you go larger? I was looking for the next size up but don't know what size it would be (93)?


----------



## drmerdp

Gator9329 said:


> Those with the HSS928 What have you been feeling for jet sizes? Is #92 the best or would you go larger? I was looking for the next size up but don't know what size it would be (93)?


The next size up is a #95, but that would be way to big. 

#90 or #92


----------



## northeast

Just took a call from a engineer at Honda. He wanted to know about the re jetting of the machines and how it’s working. And also said they are working on a fix for the clogging issues experienced by the 9 28 owners.


----------



## jrom

Wow, that is totally cool.

Thanks for spearheading what I feel is the single best fix.



northeast said:


> Just took a call from a senior engineer at Honda. He wanted to know about the re jetting of the machines and how it’s working. And also said they are working on a fix for the clogging issues experienced by the 9 28 owners.


----------



## vmax29

I finally got it to clog up today. And I was able to repeat what I did and clogged it a second time. I shoveled a line of heavy packed slop on the driveway, it was a strip of slushy, packed snow about one foot wide 4” deep and 10 feet long. It’s the stuff I broomed from the car roof that was starting to melt in the sun. I went in to it full speed ahead without the auger engaged at first. Keeping fast forward momentum I engaged the auger and that’s when it turned into an ice cube maker. I shut down and cleared it with the tool then repeated the drill. Same results. (Disclaimer... I’m retiring and have WAY too much time on my hands LOL) This was after I did my whole property and the neighbors drive without issue. Bottom line is I had to work at it to make it clog up and this was some really heavy mess. 

I also got to test the auger safety feature. I picked up a sprinkler head that was heaved up from the frost. The blower shut right down. Hour meter red led was flashing. I cleared the auger and went right back to work. As far as the jet I dialed back from the .043 to the .042. I will probably try the .043 again and see what happens next season. The RPMs are set at 3450. When it loads up with a full bucket of eod mess it goes to 2650 but never bogs down and never plugs up. Looking at the clog I am thinking it would be really awesome if Honda made a chute deflector collar that was adjustable. Two pins on the bottom as a hinge and a couple of pieces of strap metal at the top on each side with some stainless hardware. You could adjust the restriction for whatever conditions encountered if that makes sense. If it’s heavy slop you adjust the top of the baffle out. Powdery and light pull it in for more of a venturi effect. Any thoughts or have I completely lost it?


----------



## Marlow

northeast said:


> And also said they are working on a fix for the clogging issues experienced by the 9 28 owners.


I'll believe it when I see it. 

Curious, did you ask why specifically the 928? The whole 2 stage line up is the same design, just different sizes and clogging has been reported across the board. So if the 928 is getting some kind of fix, they all should be.


----------



## Marlow

northeast said:


> I did not, however the bulk of complaints are on the 9/28. The 1332 did not clog on me it was just painfully slow at its job. He did listen to what I was saying and I am hopeful they will fix it. I am out $800 bucks because the 9/28 imo was drastically underpowered it really needs a bigger engine but that does not appear to be in the works.


The 928 is, and has historically been their biggest seller by far for a very long time(at least in my market). That machine has always had a great reputation when I am. And a 9hp engine is quite common on a 28" snowblower across many manufacturers. Right up until 2011 the gx270 used a #92 jet. And now it comes with a #85. Maybe that was the issue. If it truly needed a completely different engine, they would've figured that out decades ago. Having said that, I am all for more power!!


----------



## Marlow

northeast said:


> It may be enough for a home owner using on a single driveway, if you have all day to get the job done. If you need a machine to move snow as fast as you can stuff it in the auger 9 horsepower on a 28 inch bucket is not enough. Plus the lack of auger protection and double chute for 300 less then the 1332 it’s crazy.
> 
> There is a reason one of the members here put a 390 on the 28 inch machine. If it was powerful enough he would not have done it. Has anyone put a 440 on the 1332? Probably not! I have been using snowblowers for commercial snow removal for 10 years and the 9/28 is underpowered.


Many people complained the 13hp felt under powered too, yourself included. You never used your 9hp with the 92 jet, that's a fact. 

I personally have the 13hp. But I live in a residential neighbourhood with at least a dozen 9hp's, and they move snow fast. All day? LMAO no point in lying or exaggerating to make a point. I can tell you they move snow faster than my neighbours cub cadet with a 420cc b&s, that's for sure!


----------



## northeast

Smh!!!!!! Now you are stating facts about what machines I have and have not used. Amazing


----------



## northeast

How many weeks ago was that? I guess I have sat in a locked closet for the past 2 months.


----------



## Marlow

northeast said:


> Smh!!!!!! Now you are stating facts about what machines I have and have not used. Amazing


I said "You never used your 9hp with the 92 jet, that's a fact.". You said it yourself on here that you never modded the 9hp you had. You said you used it once and traded it in. You said "My guess is the 9/28 will be much improved also".. with regards to jetting. You're guessing because you have no experience with it. You said it! YOU said these things. All people have to do is look at your post history to see that what I am saying is fact. Now you're lying again trying to make it seem as if I am pulling that out of my ass! You've lost all credibility with me after these lies. You're one of those "look at me, give me attention" types.. Loser. Get a life.

No Honda engineer called you, they wouldn't even know your number. They know the difference in the jets these engines used to use and what they use today. They know this. It's not a shocking revelation to them. Stop attention seeking, it's pathetic!

You've contributed well to this community by letting us all know about jetting. But these petty lies are just downright pointless and embarrassing.


----------



## northeast

Ok so for the rest of the community. Steve or (Mr snuffleupagus for marlow) said they are going to dyno the engines after rejetting them and are going to try to do it in temperatures much more likely to be experienced while snow-blowing. He said that when they dyno these engines it done in temps around 70!degrees. He also said they are seriously considering a fix to the shoot that entails shortening the collar on the shoot and possibly a design change to the discharge opening.


----------



## Marlow

The last guy I called out for his lies never posted here again! LOL You're caught. There is no back peddling your way out of the crap you spouted.
I have no time for BS!


----------



## ZTMAN

This was the first forum of which I was a member where members did not have cat fights. Disappointing to see bickering. Hopefully its over so we can get back on topic.


----------



## Marlow

ZTMAN said:


> This was the first forum of which I was a member where members did not have cat fights. Disappointing to see bickering. Hopefully its over so we can get back on topic.


Agreed! Just don't let me catch you in a lie. haha


----------



## vmax29

:behindsofa:

I put the .043 back in. That is the sweet spot.:smile2:


----------



## Marlow

vmax29 said:


> :behindsofa:
> 
> I put the .043 back in. That is the sweet spot.:smile2:


Nice. I am very happy with my .042. But I do have a .043 on hand as well. Will give it a shot next chance I get.


----------



## ZTMAN

Never replaced a jet. Looked at some You Tube videos. Looks straight forward on the videos. Any advice on what to watch out for. And secondly, what is a good estimate of time on how long it should take to do the job?


----------



## northeast

It should take about ten minutes. Some guys have had problems with the bowl leaking but it seems preventable if you make an alignment mark on the bowl and carb before removing.


----------



## Marlow

ZTMAN said:


> Never replaced a jet. Looked at some You Tube videos. Looks straight forward on the videos. Any advice on what to watch out for. And secondly, what is a good estimate of time on how long it should take to do the job?


Mark it with a marker for alignment before you remove the bowl, you want to re-install it in the same position. And when you replace the bowl, hold it up in its seat with one hand, and screw the nut on hand tight with the other. Then snug it with a socket wrench. To remove the actual jet, it's just a simple flat head screwdriver. 

This youtube video will give you a general idea of what to do when it comes to removing and replacing the actual jet. For the time it takes, I've did it so many times that it's just a couple of minutes. But for your first time, 10-15 minutes.


----------



## northeast

So given the fact (since we are all about facts) that I am in the snow removal business. I have friends that are in the business also. One of them owns a hss9/28 and it’s re jetted. I used that machine two storms ago. We got about 16 inches of heavy wet snow. The 9/28 while much improved over the stock one was still not powerful enough for me. And now after owning the 13/32 I don’t think I want a machine without the auger protection system. It saved me a lot of time and money this winter by not having to replace shear pins constantly. If Honda put the 390 on it with auger protection I would buy it strictly to do sidewalks. I have a bunch of sidewalks that are 30 inches wide and would love the 28 for them, but often the sidewalks are much like the eod and need the torque of the 390 to move the snow fast enough to make me the money I want to make. Let’s not forget I am running at 3950 rpm’s also. I felt the 1332 was too slow at 3600. My customers will not be happy if I show up 12 hours after the snow stops so I have to move, and move we do.


----------



## RedOctobyr

I'm not trying to argue, I'm merely curious. I know you mentioned previously that you can clear faster with the re-jetted Honda, vs your previous Ariens. 

But at least on paper, the Ariens Pro models sound like they'd fit what you're describing. 420cc, 28", or 32", where the 28" is available with hydrostatic and EFI. I don't remember which model(s) Ariens you had, but if they were one of these, what aspect of them didn't perform as well as the Honda?


----------



## northeast

No it’s a good question. My ariens were wheeled machines and they were much much slower in deep heavy snow because the wheels would spin. I had to rock the machines back and forth to get them through the eod crude. With the tracks the Honda moves through it with ease. The 420 has plenty of power I just could not get the snow into it because of the wheels. The rapid track may be an option, but I like having all the same equipment too. So for now I run the 1332s. I made a post inquiring about single stage machines for smaller storms but I don’t think I like the idea.


----------



## northeast

What is most impressive is not how far the Honda throws snow my Ariens threw snow just as far imo. It is the ease of use. I used to work so hard in deep heavy snow it really was a full body workout. Now if I was not moving so fast I could enjoy a coffee while using the Honda. I believe that a coffee holder is a popular modification on Honda’s I understand why.


----------



## drmerdp

northeast said:


> There is a reason one of the members here put a 390 on the 28 inch machine. If it was powerful enough he would not have done it. Has anyone put a 440 on the 1332? Probably not! I have been using snowblowers for commercial snow removal for 10 years and the 9/28 is underpowered.


As the guy, the gx270 worked well. It moves bunch more snow then my dads 28” mtd gold with the 357cc. 

But the gx390 on the 28” bucket is a monster. I literally barreled through 6” (melted down from 11”) of soaking wet snow and slush at full speed yesterday. A 270 stock or rejetted can do a lot of work, but not as much as a 390. A 120cc deficit is huge.

I think I’m throwing 50+ feet with the wet stuff. Crazy. 




Marlow said:


> No Honda engineer called you, they wouldn't even know your number. They know the difference in the jets these engines used to use and what they use today. They know this. It's not a shocking revelation to them. Stop attention seeking, it's pathetic!
> 
> You've contributed well to this community by letting us all know about jetting. But these petty lies are just downright pointless and embarrassing.


I don’t know if it was an engineer, but Honda called me directly to incuire about my transmission slow down problem 2 years ago....it happens. 




vmax29 said:


> :behindsofa:
> 
> I put the .043 back in. That is the sweet spot.:smile2:


Im with you, I have a #110 (.043) jet ready to go. Gonna swap out my .042, when I “summer-ize” it.


----------



## Freddy Ford

northeast said:


> What is most impressive is not how far the Honda throws snow my Ariens threw snow just as far imo. It is the ease of use. I used to work so hard in deep heavy snow it really was a full body workout. Now if I was not moving so fast I could enjoy a coffee while using the Honda. I believe that a coffee holder is a popular modification on Honda’s I understand why.


Oh my God, this is so true! Coming from an Ariens HydroPro 28, it was a constant battle to use the machine and I was exhausted every time. With the Honda it is completely effortless! Comparing the Briggs 420cc to the Honda GX390 rejetted, I would say they are the same performance wise (even with the Honda being 32" and the Ariens 28"). I honestly can't tell a difference except that the Honda runs much better and the Briggs was horribly lean (way worse than my GX390 was).


----------



## Nikos

Used my HSS1332ATD for the previous noreaster we had in NJ and I got it to clog once.

*NOTE:* A week prior to the storm, I replaced the jet with a 42, and adjusted the engines RPM idle/max to 2200/3600. 

Depending on the snow mix and outside temps, the chute will clog after a minute (or two) of NO snow being blown through. In this case, I was going in reverse for a stretch. I'm fairly confident that with the right temp and snow consistency, the metal chute will freeze the standing snow mix which allows it to adhere to its walls and initiates the clog when the augers start pushing snow through again.

My Toro which had a non-metallic chute has never clogged for the 11 years that I have used it. 

After rejetting and adjusting the rpms, the Honda only clogged once. That's compared to the previous storm with similar snow mix which caused the Honda to clog at least 5 times.

So, whatever redesign Honda has done to the chutes of these newer models, needs to be addressed. 
Per Honda's own advertising:
"Conveniently located clearing tool in the *unlikely event* the chute becomes obstructed with slushy wet snow or ice."

For many of us, the clogging issue has become an anti-productive, re-occurring event and I feel duped spending $3600 of my hard, earned cash on a machine based on misleading advertising. It's potentially a great machine with a serious flaw as its Achilles heel.


----------



## RedOctobyr

northeast said:


> No it’s a good question. My ariens were wheeled machines and they were much much slower in deep heavy snow because the wheels would spin. I had to rock the machines back and forth to get them through the eod crude. With the tracks the Honda moves through it with ease. The 420 has plenty of power I just could not get the snow into it because of the wheels. The rapid track may be an option, but I like having all the same equipment too. So for now I run the 1332s. I made a post inquiring about single stage machines for smaller storms but I don’t think I like the idea.





Freddy Ford said:


> Oh my God, this is so true! Coming from an Ariens HydroPro 28, it was a constant battle to use the machine and I was exhausted every time. With the Honda it is completely effortless! Comparing the Briggs 420cc to the Honda GX390 rejetted, I would say they are the same performance wise (even with the Honda being 32" and the Ariens 28"). I honestly can't tell a difference except that the Honda runs much better and the Briggs was horribly lean (way worse than my GX390 was).


Thanks guys, this makes sense. 

I've only had wheeled machines, I have chains on them. The Ariens with differentials are much less effort to use, since I don't have to drag them around at the end of a pass. But once the snow gets heavy, I have to lock the differential, due to 1-wheel slippage, and then I have to wrestle the machine again, along with still helping to push sometimes (our driveway has an incline). 

Tracks sound really nice, especially if combined with the HSS trigger steering. I do admittedly have some concerns about long-term durability, in the sense that tracks are expensive to replace in the future, if needed. While tires are common and universal. And I don't know how tracks do if things get icy, vs tires with chains. 

I'm hoping to add some weight to my machine in the off-season, preferably at/on the axle, to try and get more grip. It would never be the same as tracks, but maybe I can gain some extra traction.


----------



## Lake Effect

For those not familiar with changing jets, some info to save problems. They are made of brass, which is a very soft metal. Be sure sure to use a screwdriver that fits the slot and don't over tighten. Put the carburetor parts(bowl, bolt) on a clean rag to keep dirt from entering into the picture. Once you see the size of the jet hole, you'll realize how sensitive performance can be.


----------



## grump99

I finally got to try out the HSS 1332 with a proper Honda jet. I had originally drilled my stock jet to "0.42", but probably overdrilled the hole. I was getting hiccups and black smoke (too rich). It threw snow a mile though.

I put in the Honda 105 jet to start. We got about 9 inches of heavy wet snow. I was able to clear it at nearly full speed. Blower started easily and ran smooth. Significant power increase from stock. 

Will put in the 108 jet for next season and see if it makes any difference. Will also bump RPMs to 3600, but not until I get 15-20 hours on the machine (only 9 hours so far).


----------



## Snowbelt_subie

HS928 guys i spoke to a guy who races go carts and he said the main upgrade for guys running GX270's is swap a whole GX390 carb and the plastic plate behind the carb its a direct bolt on and allows for a large opening through the carb and plate to accommodate the opening in the head.

if anyone is feeling frisky this would be a nice test as well.


----------



## drmerdp

Hmmm that’s a fun idea. Just got to remember to use the appropriate main jet.


----------



## Snowbelt_subie

drmerdp said:


> Hmmm that’s a fun idea. Just got to remember to use the appropriate main jet.


yea for sure if you have ever seen the opening difference between the gx270 and gx390 carburetor its massive.


----------



## northeast

I wonder what jet the 270 would take with the 390 carburetor. I might look into different carburetors for the 390.


----------



## Snowbelt_subie

northeast said:


> I wonder what jet the 270 would take with the 390 carburetor. I might look into different carburetors for the 390.


I think they run the stock jet in the stock 390 carb that should be plenty for the 270 engine.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## northeast

If that is true that tells us all how lean they are making these machines.


----------



## Snowbelt_subie

northeast said:


> If that is true that tells us all how lean they are making these machines.



i dont know if that is the case or they are just choking the GX270 out with a small opening in the stock carburetor and backing plate. check out 18 minutes in and you will see the difference in the openings.


----------



## Freddy Ford

These engines are all CARB certified. Anything that can be sold in California means you are double-screwed. In the past manufacturers would commonly sell two models of various power equipment, one for CA and one for the rest of the country. Most now only sell CARB certified machines to consolidate, and boy are they tuned super lean. Even Battery Tender has to make a special version that is CA approved over the rest of the country, as they can't sell the normal versions there anymore. They passed some ridiculous law that some electronics have to meet some new crazy energy efficiency standards over the rest of the country. I don't know what the heck is going on in that state, but they live in their own world over there.


----------



## superbuick

I plan to do the carb mod to my 270 - just bought a new home so I am putting my GX390 swap plans on pause for a while.

I ordered the unlimited coil for my 270 - right now i can get the 270 to run at 4200rpm where it hits the rev limiter. More RPMs may well suffice in place of more displacement in this application.


----------



## drmerdp

Wow, that’s a huge difference in bore size. 

If I still had my gx270 I would be experimenting with this.


----------



## Bob_S

I had to replace my HHS928 carburetor (damage due to lack of air filter) with an OEM and its now dealing with wet snow MUCH better. Granted I did re-jet it before installing it. I do wonder if this replacement carburetor is set up differently than what came with the snow blower.


----------



## RIT333

Bob_S said:


> I had to replace my HHS928 carburetor (damage due to lack of air filter) with an OEM and its now dealing with wet snow MUCH better. Granted I did re-jet it before installing it. I do wonder if this replacement carburetor is set up differently than what came with the snow blower.


Just curious - How did not having an air cleaner ruin your carb ?


----------



## YSHSfan

Bob_S said:


> I had to replace my HHS928 carburetor (damage due to lack of air filter) with an OEM and its now dealing with wet snow MUCH better. Granted I did re-jet it before installing it. I do wonder if this replacement carburetor is set up differently than what came with the snow blower.


99.9% of snowblower engines do not have an air filter, Honda is not the only one that does not have it. 
How did the carb ‘get damaged’ because of no filter...?


----------



## Bob_S

Some mice made a nest in the air filter compartment during summer storage. Did not realize it and results were as predicted. I did attempt to clean up the carburetor but its performance remained very poor. To prevent this from happing again, I tried to install a GX270 air filter but it would not fit. I ended up making a screen. If you have any mice problems where you live, I would keep this concern in mind.:surprise:

Anyone know of an air filter that fits and HHS928?


----------



## YSHSfan

Bob_S said:


> Some mice made a nest in the air filter compartment during summer storage. Did not realize it and results were as predicted. I did attempt to clean up the carburetor but its performance remained very poor. To prevent this from happing again, I tried to install a GX270 air filter but it would not fit. I ended up making a screen. If you have any mice problems where you live, I would keep this concern in mind.:surprise:
> 
> Anyone know of an air filter that fits and HHS928?


I see.

That's a common issue on cars with climate control systems, the answer is a metal screen, looks like you are all set there. :smile2:

You really don't want an air filter there. But if you do want one, you need the change all the 'air intake' plastic pieces from a general purpose engine that allows an air filter installation (this will complicate things as you won't be able to fit the snow shields). IMHO the metal screen will take care of it. If there was a mice nesting there, you may also have it inside the air flow shrouds..... lain:


----------



## tabora

You don't want an air filter on a snowblower. It can ice up from condensation or get blocked up with loose powder, which can melt later and then ice it up. I just make a habit of checking/vacuuming my carb intakes whenever I put a machine back into service after an extended break. 

I just put my 2004 BMW 325xi Touring back on the road after 4 years of barn rest. I cleaned the mouse nest out of the air box (pre-filter) and figured I was good, but NO... The little b*st*rds also built a nest in the cabin filter airbox, inside the muffler & ate a hole in the intake hose after the air filter/mass air flow meter and filled up the throttle body.

Your metal screen sounds like exactly the right solution for your Honda.


----------



## CalgaryPT

northeast said:


> If that is true that tells us all how lean they are making these machines.


I have the drill bits and a couple of extra jets just in case I over do it, so will attempt the jet fix if it ever bloody well stops snowing in Calgary.

But stupid question time.....has anyone compared the jet sizes on the older HS (pre 2016) machines to the newer HSS machines? I have an HSS 724 but no access to an older HS machine. I thought there was a post about this with this thread but can't find it. Seems to me comparing the jet sizes between old and new would be an interesting data point in addition to the collar issue in the clogging thread.


----------



## superbuick

Quick update on adding a GX390 carb to a GX270 - it is NOT a direct fit - two changes other than the carburetor must be made, both relating to the plastic plate between the carb and the cylinder head. The plate from the GX390 is twice as thick as the plate from the GX270, with no apparent reason why. When you put the plate/gaskets/carb on, the studs are too short to put nuts on the end. So the first thing that must be done is that you must order the longer studs that come on the GX390. This alone does not solve the problem however. Even with the longer studs, the thickness of the GX390 carburetor plate pushes the entire carb assembly outwards so that the airbox no longer lines up and cant be screwed back together. In conjunction with the longer studs, you need to sand down (using a belt sander) the plastic plate to where it is about half the thickness of stock (and therefore about the same thickness as the GX270 plate - but you still need the longer studs as the GX390 carb is a few mm longer). Only then can you bolt everything back together.

I did all this, and added a non rev-limited coil, and even with the GX390 stock jet, it was much too lean at high RPMs (4200-4300). I ended up drilling the GX390 jet out to .046 and it runs perfectly now. Unfortunately no snow to test it on...


----------



## CalgaryPT

LOL. Just got a new set of bits and pin vice to drill mine out. Califomia [sic] is even more problematic than I thought according to the English translation label on the Chinese drill bits. Apparently "The State of Califormia" itself contains one or more chemicals known to cause cancer to "the state of Califormia."

Maybe it's Califomians themselves? Or Prop 65?

(Gotta love translations.)


----------



## drmerdp

superbuick said:


> Quick update on adding a GX390 carb to a GX270 - it is NOT a direct fit - two changes other than the carburetor must be made, both relating to the plastic plate between the carb and the cylinder head. The plate from the GX390 is twice as thick as the plate from the GX270, with no apparent reason why. When you put the plate/gaskets/carb on, the studs are too short to put nuts on the end. So the first thing that must be done is that you must order the longer studs that come on the GX390. This alone does not solve the problem however. Even with the longer studs, the thickness of the GX390 carburetor plate pushes the entire carb assembly outwards so that the airbox no longer lines up and cant be screwed back together. In conjunction with the longer studs, you need to sand down (using a belt sander) the plastic plate to where it is about half the thickness of stock (and therefore about the same thickness as the GX270 plate - but you still need the longer studs as the GX390 carb is a few mm longer). Only then can you bolt everything back together.
> 
> I did all this, and added a non rev-limited coil, and even with the GX390 stock jet, it was much too lean at high RPMs (4200-4300). I ended up drilling the GX390 jet out to .046 and it runs perfectly now. Unfortunately no snow to test it on...


Cool, I’m glad you did the conversion. Kudos for taking the plunge.

I’m stunned that you needed such a large jet!


----------



## superbuick

I am stunned as well. It would barely run with the stock 390 jet - the lean surge was incredible.



drmerdp said:


> Cool, I’m glad you did the conversion. Kudos for taking the plunge.
> 
> I’m stunned that you needed such a large jet!


----------



## jrom

I ordered a .042 #108 jet from my dealer today ($6, free shipping. Honda 99101-ZH8-1080). Over the weekend we got a ton of heavy wet and frozen crud and I've probably got close to 4' of accumulated snow on the ground (238" so far this winter). When this jet comes in, I'll install and report back.

I went through just under 3 gallons of gas this weekend, but I had some unusually harsh conditions (Broke a new shovel handle). 2 of my neighbors had constant, complete auger housing and chute plugging over the weekend with an Ariens and Husqvarna. I didn't have any clogging, but my 390 struggled more than I thought it should. Had to to slow it way down a lot of times.

I look forward to some more power.


----------



## Snowbelt_subie

superbuick said:


> I am stunned as well. It would barely run with the stock 390 jet - the lean surge was incredible.


thats crazy i guess it doesn't matter if the 390 carb is on a 390 or 270. i bet the 270 with the new carb is going to be a beast . +1 for letting everyone know the details on how to make it fit correctly on a snowblower.


----------



## RedOctobyr

I've never swapped a carb from a larger machine, or looked into that. So I'm trying to make sure I understand the motivation, as well as potential drawbacks. 

I would assume that the carb tries to provide a consistent fuel/air mixture, over a range of flow rates and throttle settings. A bigger engine needs a larger flowrate of fuel & air. A 200cc engine at 3000 RPM would need the same amount of fuel/air per second as a 400cc engine at 1500 RPM. 

The 390cc engine's carb *can* provide more fuel/air, but the 270cc engine is smaller, and doesn't need that extra amount (unless you were going above the recommended RPM). 

So, what is the benefit from the larger-engine's carb? Simply less-restriction to the airflow, letting the engine breathe more freely?

PS- Few devices are perfect, I expect that carbs likely have a "sweet spot" of air flowrate through them, where they maintain a more accurate mixture, or throttle/governor response. Sort of like how you wouldn't use a 100 lb-capacity scale to accurately weigh a 3 lb item. You'd use a 5 lb-capacity scale. 

It's possible that there could be a downside to using a bigger engine's carb on a smaller engine, especially if you're using the carb's governor. A go-kart performance-mod application might use direct throttle-plate control, rather than the governor, eliminating concerns about how the governor might do with a big carb on a smaller engine. 

But again, I haven't tried this, or researched it, so I'm thinking out loud.


----------



## DriverRider

RedOctobyr said:


> But again, I haven't tried this, or researched it, so I'm thinking out loud.


Back in the day automobile carbs were rated CFM Cubic Feet Air/minute and were sized to engines according to performance desired, too small and it restricts engine intake, too large and the venturi effect drawing fuel through the jets in carb is negated.


----------



## jrom

Just re-jetted my HSS1332ATD with an OE #108 (.042) and it runs great with a definite boost in power. Plug is burning clean with no noticeable unburned gas smell out of the exhaust. Ordered the jet from my dealer for $6.74 with no shipping charge.

I still have 3-1/2 – 4' of snow around my house and with the warm temps today (64°F) the snow is plenty wet and sloppy. Buried 'er into a 3-1/2' snowbank and kept going for a good half an hour. Had to ride on top after a while, reverse out and go back in low. Works perfect.

This is probably my last snow clearing before the 3 year warranty is up. 61 hours on 'er and in case anyone thinks that is pretty low for how much snow I get [238" so far this season], it's because I use my '91 HS828 about 50% of the time.

Thanks northeast for starting this thread and to all others who helped make the process as easy as possible – and it is easy.


----------



## vmax29

Did you talk to the dealer about jetting? Just curious as to what their thoughts are on it. I have the .043 in mine now and it seems to be liking that.


----------



## jrom

Unfortunately, I caught my dealer about 15 minutes before closing on Saturday. The mechanics were gone. The salesman found it interesting that I wanted to up-jet, but wondered why I would want to as he had not heard any complaints about underpowered or clogging of any of the Honda's. So I left it at that.

I didn't read back enough posts and missed yours on the .043. I'm going to order one now and hope I still have snow when it arrives. 

Thanks too Sean on your post about only having to take the air guide off to access the bowl.



vmax29 said:


> Did you talk to the dealer about jetting? Just curious as to what their thoughts are on it. I have the .043 in mine now and it seems to be liking that.


----------



## orangputeh

jrom said:


> Just re-jetted my HSS1332ATD with an OE #108 (.042) and it runs great with a definite boost in power. Plug is burning clean with no noticeable unburned gas smell out of the exhaust. Ordered the jet from my dealer for $6.74 with no shipping charge.
> 
> I still have 3-1/2 – 4' of snow around my house and with the warm temps today (64°F) the snow is plenty wet and sloppy. Buried 'er into a 3-1/2' snowbank and kept going for a good half an hour. Had to ride on top after a while, reverse out and go back in low. Works perfect.
> 
> This is probably my last snow clearing before the 3 year warranty is up. 61 hours on 'er and in case anyone thinks that is pretty low for how much snow I get [238" so far this season], it's because I use my '91 HS828 about 50% of the time.
> 
> Thanks northeast for starting this thread and to all others who helped make the process as easy as possible – and it is easy.


just curious if you ever re-jetted the hs828? or could you put a 270 carb on it to get some extra power.


----------



## leonz

This would explain why the exhaust on the honda engine I had( 11HP) on my commercial firewood splitter stunk so much that I had to buy a catalytic converter for it.


----------



## jrom

Have not. I may be off base here, but I'm reluctant to re-jet the 240 because of the amount of hours on it. I should probably have a leak-down test to see where it's at, or buy a tester and do it myself.

If I go easy on it, the 828 is a great backup.



orangputeh said:


> just curious if you ever re-jetted the hs828? or could you put a 270 carb on it to get some extra power.


----------



## jrom

I notice a huge difference in exhaust smell between the GX240 and GX390. If you are sensitive to exhaust I can see why you would go with a cat converter.



leonz said:


> This would explain why the exhaust on the honda engine I had( 11HP) on my commercial firewood splitter stunk so much that I had to buy a catalytic converter for it.


----------



## tabora

jrom said:


> Have not. I may be off base here, but I'm reluctant to re-jet the 240 because of the amount of hours on it. I should probably have a leak-down test to see where it's at, or buy a tester and do it myself.
> 
> If I go easy on it, the 828 is a great backup.


I think the stock jets on the HS8xx series blowers were probably big enough to make max power. On my HS80, I believe that the original jet is a #92, which was also stock on the 828, right?

On the HS928, early machines also had the #92, but it looks like the last K-code machines came with only a #85?


----------



## orangputeh

jrom said:


> I notice a huge difference in exhaust smell between the GX240 and GX390. If you are sensitive to exhaust I can see why you would go with a cat converter.


California will probably mandate it in a couple years and charge for a smog. That's when i will leave this ridiculous state.


----------



## jrom

I do believe you're right.


GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011?)
# 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
# 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
# 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-ZF5-0920 | HS828, HS928 (Stock)


GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)
GX270 *HSS*928 (2015 >)
# 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
# 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
# 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock)





tabora said:


> I think the stock jets on the HS8xx series blowers were probably big enough to make max power. On my HS80, I believe that the original jet is a #92, which was also stock on the 828, right?
> 
> On the HS928, early machines also had the #92, but it looks like the last K-code machines came with only a #85?


----------



## Snowbelt_subie

RedOctobyr said:


> I've never swapped a carb from a larger machine, or looked into that. So I'm trying to make sure I understand the motivation, as well as potential drawbacks.
> 
> I would assume that the carb tries to provide a consistent fuel/air mixture, over a range of flow rates and throttle settings. A bigger engine needs a larger flowrate of fuel & air. A 200cc engine at 3000 RPM would need the same amount of fuel/air per second as a 400cc engine at 1500 RPM.
> 
> The 390cc engine's carb *can* provide more fuel/air, but the 270cc engine is smaller, and doesn't need that extra amount (unless you were going above the recommended RPM).
> 
> So, what is the benefit from the larger-engine's carb? Simply less-restriction to the airflow, letting the engine breathe more freely?
> 
> PS- Few devices are perfect, I expect that carbs likely have a "sweet spot" of air flowrate through them, where they maintain a more accurate mixture, or throttle/governor response. Sort of like how you wouldn't use a 100 lb-capacity scale to accurately weigh a 3 lb item. You'd use a 5 lb-capacity scale.
> 
> It's possible that there could be a downside to using a bigger engine's carb on a smaller engine, especially if you're using the carb's governor. A go-kart performance-mod application might use direct throttle-plate control, rather than the governor, eliminating concerns about how the governor might do with a big carb on a smaller engine.
> 
> But again, I haven't tried this, or researched it, so I'm thinking out loud.



specifically on the 270 and 390 comparison. i think the 270 can flow more air than stock it actually is choked off from the factory due to the opening from the carb and the isolator plate. All the 390 carb and isolatior does is take advantage of the stock intake port in the head and allows it to flow the full amount of air and fuel through the opening.


----------



## JnC

Just rebuilt a HS1332 and threw in a #110 jet, so far so good. 

I have gone back a few pages to figure out the best option for a HS724 with a GX200, can someone recommend one? I bought #82 for it as someone used #82 for a HS720 a few pages ago and had good results but the 720 uses a GC190 motor rather than a GX200.


----------



## CalgaryPT

Hummm. I bought a #80 for my 2016 HSS724. Stock jet is #75 as per Shop Manual.


----------



## csonni

Already seeing Winter show its face. A skiff today. Nothing like parts of the Dakotas got last week!
Just installed my .042 jet today. Took a bit longer than 10 minutes as some of you have said. First thing...I marked the bowl and carb for alignment. I had to grind the shank of my screwdriver a bit to fit the tube. The one that would fit didn't have a tip quite big enough. The jet came out without any real effort. Fit the new one in. Put everything back together. Started right up. No leaks at all. Won't know what the difference is until I get to start eating into snow, which shouldn't be too long of a wait in this part of the country. I didn't winterize my Honda. Rather, I started it up every 4-5 weeks or so and let er run. Not enough hours on the last oil change. Will wait till that time comes...probably in the New Year.


----------



## JnC

Would the #110 also work for GX340 (HS1132)? I pulled out a #86 from the stock carb, yikes.


----------



## tabora

JnC said:


> Would the #110 also work for GX340 (HS1132)? I pulled out a #86 from the stock carb, yikes.


Actually, that's a #98 (stock for the HS1132) - turn it over. :wink2:
I wouldn't go bigger than a #105... That would be close to the same increase as the HSS1332 going from #102 to #110.

GX390 HSS1332A (2015 >)
GX340 HS1132 (1997-2011)
# 95 (0.95 mm, .0374") | 99101-ZH8-0950 | HSS1332A
# 98 (0.98 mm, .0386") | 99101-ZH7-0980 | HS1132 (GX340 Stock)
# 100 (1.00 mm, .0394") | 99101-ZH8-1000 | HSS1332A
# 102 (1.02 mm, .0402") | 99101-ZH8-1020 | HSS1332A (GX390 Stock)
# 105 (1.05 mm, .0413") | 99101-ZH8-1050
# 110 (.0433")


----------



## JnC

That makes more sense, lol


----------



## ICECOLDBEER

I read though most of this thread and just to be clear these are the part numbers for the GX390 Main jets yes? And the consensus seems to be the 0.042 or maybe the 0.043? I might grab a couple I like messing around. Available though the Honda Dealer yes? Picking up my new 1332 next week. Super excited!!! I know the chute seems to be an issue but unfortunately its not going to be changed out yet in Canada. Did I read correctly it was in one of these threads but Honda had a warranty/recall where they added a Hydro fluid reservoir? Also I saw another thread you guys made some sort of adjustment that increased the travel speed. Someone refereed to it as the Canadian speed. Do the Canadian models actually come with the faster speed or does the adjustment need to be made? Some of the videos the machines appear to be in granny mode. Others I couldn't believe how fast they were moving especially backwards! WOW. And sorry for all the questions but say you get to the end of the driveway and want to turn around basically 180. Do you find its best to just pull both levers to disengage the transmission and manually turn it or can you just pull one and it will turn? 

These are the GX390 main jet part numbers yes? Bad form to order new jet on same day picking up the blower?
RLV5010	.032	#81
RLV5011	.034	#86
RLV5008	.035	#88
RLV5012	.036	#91
RLV5009	.037	#93
RLV5013	.038	#96
RLV5014	.039	#99
RLV5015	.040	#101
RLV5016	.041	#104
RLV5017	.042	#107
RLV5018	.043	#109
RLV5019	.044	#112
RLV5020	.045	#114
RLV5021	.046	#117


----------



## tabora

ICECOLDBEER said:


> These are the GX390 main jet part numbers yes? ...


If you're close to sea level, go directly to a #109 or #110 jet.

Hopefully Canada will get the chute mod at some point, but if not, the part is pretty inexpensive @ $26.55USD, at least down here...
For HSS1332ATD: https://www.tmsparts.com/oem/hondape/76310-V45-C31ZA
For non-HSS1332ATD: https://www.tmsparts.com//oem/honda/76310-V45-A01ZA

If you're getting a new HSS, your transmission already incorporates the baffles that fix the speed issue. I think the other "fix" is just which hole on the control handle the control cable is attached to (see below), but I think that may have only applied to the previous generation transmission. My HSS1332ATD is at the dealer getting Service Bulletins 30 & 31 applied, so I can't check right now.

To turn 180 degrees, lift the augers with the left thumb lever, then pull one steering lever and the machine spins right around.


"...the cable attached to the speed lever has 2 holes, all you have to do is take cotter pin out, take out the round sleeve, move your cable back into the top position, which is if standing behind the blower move cable to the hole back toward you, it will make the blower a lot faster in reverse as the cable has more reach for the tranny, just did this on my 928 and a few of my buddy's also, they were pretty happy with that quick 5 min fix"


----------



## ICECOLDBEER

Thanks! I'm at 252m above sea level what jet would you recommend? The 109 or 110? Where can I find the part numbers? That chute seems quite reasonable.

Can't seem to find them. Thats all I could find on the Honda Website parts diagram.
99101-ZH8-0950	JET, MAIN (#95)
99101-ZH8-1000	JET, MAIN (#100)
99101-ZH8-1020	JET, MAIN (#102)

I am assuming a 109 would be 99101-ZH8-1090? And 110 is ??


----------



## tabora

ICECOLDBEER said:


> Thanks! I'm at 252m above sea level what jet would you recommend? The 109 or 110? ...I am assuming a 109 would be 99101-ZH8-1090? And 110 is ??


So, 827 feet ASL is pretty close to sea level as far as jets go... I would go with the #110. You can buy from anywhere convenient/inexpensive for you up there; look for Honda/GX390/Clone/Predator jets. The larger jets are commonly used in GX390s and clones for kart racing, so those places are good sources.

For example, I purchased my #110 here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Predator-2...4:m:mNcTajo9s2ihPH_bsfMlUjg:rk:4:pf:0&vxp=mtr
They ship worldwide, but it can be pricey. The USA shipping is free.

Others have purchased their jets directly from their Honda PE dealer... They should have all the correct part numbers for all jet sizes.


----------



## jrom

ICECOLDBEER said:


> ...I am assuming a 109 would be 99101-ZH8-1090? And 110 is ??


99101-ZH8-1100 [#110 - 1.10mm, .0433"]

$4.46 https://www.boats.net/product/honda/99101-ZH8-1100


----------



## Aviator

*High altitude Jets on new HSS models*

Re: the "Are high altitude jets equipped in units shipped to Boston?" question. In a word, NO. Everybody is too lean for EPA and California CARB reasons.
I just bought a new 2018 HSS928ATD in Denver Colorado for use at 7800' altitude. My dealer, who also sells and maintains racing motorcycles and ATV's would not install a high altitude jet when I asked him to at purchase. The mechanic told me he will not install the high altitude kit unless you report over-rich symptoms after use. "We tune all new units to Denver altitude with stock jets and get good results at altitude". This thread tells me why in great detail. By running the stock jets at altitude I am getting the effect of reaming out the main jet to the next larger jet size for free, according to Honda's high altitude chart. I will read my spark plug after use and may eventually try a tiny increase in jet size on a new stock jet using a fresh plug to get a good reading. Thanks for all the info. Great thread. Thanks to all.


----------



## Stephen0523

I know I have seen this before but can someone tell me the link to the video on rejetting aN HSS1332 2017?
Also what ever ended up being the best jet to use?


----------



## tabora

Stephen0523 said:


> I know I have seen this before but can someone tell me the link to the video on rejetting aN HSS1332 2017?
> Also what ever ended up being the best jet to use?


 Here's a link to drmerdp's excellent video: https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1624009-post1.html

The steps are quite simple:
1. Remove the lower carburetor cover.
2. Run the engine with the gas off and choke applied until it dies.
3. Open the carburetor bowl drain to get the remaining tiny bit of gas out.
4. Make an index mark on either side of the float hinge boss on the carb body and bowl to aid with alignment during installation.
5. Remove the bowl and clean it.
6. Use a medium flat blade screwdriver to remove the stock #102 _.0402_ jet from the vertical tube in the center where the bowl was attached and install the new #110 _.0433_ jet.
7. Reinstall the carb bowl and check for leaks. Reinstall lower carburetor cover.​If you are within 1000ft of sea level, go to a #110. As you go higher, step down proportionally. In Denver at 7800ft, the stock #102 seems to be appropriate.

I purchased my #110 here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Predator-21...4f:0&vxp=mtr
They ship worldwide, but it can be pricey. The USA shipping is free.

Others have purchased their jets directly from their Honda PE dealer... They should have all the correct part numbers for all jet sizes.


----------



## Stephen0523

Thanks Tabora, I will go with the 110.
Where I live in Prince Edward Island is 152 metres or 499 feet above sea level.


----------



## Stephen0523

Hi Tabora, Will I need to drill larger hole or will the 110 jet screw right in?


----------



## northeast

Stephen0523 said:


> Hi Tabora, Will I need to drill larger hole or will the 110 jet screw right in?


The jet will screw right in DO NOT DRILL ANYTHING.


----------



## Stephen0523

Thanks northeast!


----------



## stinx

I have a 928 that I bought last year. I am in Ma is there a jetting change recommended for this machine also?


----------



## tabora

stinx said:


> I have a 928 that I bought last year. I am in Ma is there a jetting change recommended for this machine also?


 The consensus appears to be #92 (if you're within 1000' of sea level).

GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011?)
# 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
# 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
# 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-ZF5-0920 | HS828, HS928 (Stock)

GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)
GX270 *HSS*928 (2015 >)
# 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
# 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
# 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock)


----------



## jrom

Just to re-post the more complete list of jets and OE part numbers (Up to #112, from page 12 of this thread).

_Years in parenthesis are production dates, not model dates. Honda does not use model years._

*Jet, Main, GX Series, Genuine Honda, GX120 thru GX390 series:
*
GX160 HS624K1 (1992-1996)
GX200 HS724 (1998-early 2015)
GX200 HSS724 (2015-2018)
# 70 | 0.70 mm .0276" | 99101-ZK7-0700 | HSS724A
# 72 | 0.72 mm .0283" | 99101-ZH8-0720 | HSS724A
# 75 | 0.75 mm .0295" | 99101-ZH8-0750 | HS624K1, HS724, HSS724A (Stock)
# 78 | 0.78 mm .0307" | 99101-124-0780 |

GX270 HSS928 (2015-2018)
GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)
# 80 | 0.80 mm .0307" | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
# 82 | 0.82 mm .0323" | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
# 85 | 0.85 mm .0335" | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock)

GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011)
# 88 | 0.88 mm .0346" | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
# 90 | 0.90 mm .0354" | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
# 92 | 0.92 mm .0362" | 99101-ZF5-0920 | HS828, HS928 (Stock)

GX390 HS1332 (2011-2015) & HSS1332A (2015-2018)
GX340 HS1132 (1997-2011)
# 95 | 0.95 mm .0374" | 99101-ZH8-0950 | HSS1332A
# 98 | 0.98 mm .0386" | 99101-ZH7-0980 | HS1132 (GX340 Stock)
# 100 | 1.00 mm .0394" | 99101-ZH8-1000 | HSS1332A
# 102 |1.02 mm .0402" | 99101-ZH8-1020 | HS1332, HSS1332A (GX390 Stock)
# 105 | 1.05 mm .0413" | 99101-ZH8-1050
# 108 | 1.08 mm .0425" | 99101-ZH8-1080
# 110 |1.10 mm .0433" | 99101-ZH8-1100 | _Sweet spot for 2015-2018 GX390_
# 112 | 1.12 mm .0441" | 99101-ZH8-1120


----------



## CalgaryPT

Super helpful. Thanks @jrom


----------



## relaycruz

From reading extensive posts from last year the general consensus was for the GX390 the .0425 was preferable for brand new machines. After about 100 hours the .0433 can be used if needed. Seemed like some new machines were a little too rich with .0433 until well broken-in. I installed a .0425 and the difference was quite strong.


----------



## tabora

relaycruz said:


> From reading extensive posts from last year the general consensus was for the GX390 the .0425 was preferable for brand new machines. After about 100 hours the .0433 can be used if needed. Seemed like some new machines were a little too rich with .0433 until well broken-in. I installed a .0425 and the difference was quite strong.


Actually, after about 5 hours is fine for the .0433 jet. That's when I changed mine, and it's quite happy.


----------



## Freezn

So if I'm reading the jet size chart correctly, a stock HS928 comes with a #92 main jet from the factory? Therefore no upgrade needed??


----------



## tabora

Freezn said:


> So if I'm reading the jet size chart correctly, a stock HS928 comes with a #92 main jet from the factory? Therefore no upgrade needed??


Yes, that's my understanding if yours is a K0 rev. The recommendation for the HSS928 or the HS928K1 is to go back to the HS928K0 stock size.


----------



## Freezn

tabora said:


> Yes, that's my understanding if yours is a K0 rev. The recommendation for the HSS928 or the HS928K1 is to go back to the HS928K0 stock size.


Any idea how I can determine the build version of the machine (ie. KO, K1)? I have the serial number from the frame (SZAS-XXXXXXX) and the model number on the gas tank (HS928WAS) but no build version ??


----------



## tabora

Freezn said:


> Any idea how I can determine the build version of the machine (ie. KO, K1)? I have the serial number from the frame (SZAS-XXXXXXX) and the model number on the gas tank (HS928WAS) but no build version ??


On the frame tag that has your serial number, there may be a model number listed as well. It may be on your Owners Manual as well. The K number appears after the HS928 and before the feature letters, either with or without the "K". If there's no number there, you have a K0. Some mowers are up into the double digits, but it looks like the HS928 is either a K0 or K1. I believe the K1s started with Serial Number SAVJ-5000001, so it looks like you're a K0.


----------



## stinx

tabora said:


> The consensus appears to be #92 (if you're within 1000' of sea level).
> 
> GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
> GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011?)
> # 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
> # 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
> # 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-ZF5-0920 | HS828, HS928 (Stock)
> 
> GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)
> GX270 *HSS*928 (2015 >)
> # 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
> # 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
> # 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock)


My 928 model number is HSS928AAWD. GF Serial number SADA1007602. I am confused as to what main jet is currently in the machine. I’m not sure if It has a 85 or 92. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## leonz

I love it when a plan comes together.

How many of you are using .025 for spark plug gap? 


"Now if I could only find a snow shark and put a V twin on it".


----------



## Freezn

stinx said:


> My 928 model number is HSS928AAWD. GF Serial number SADA1007602. I am confused as to what main jet is currently in the machine. I’m not sure if It has a 85 or 92. Any help is appreciated.



None of the HSS928 machines came with the 92 jet, so your machine probably has the 85 jet. Sounds like the HSS928 machines really respond well to the 92 jet.


----------



## dadnjesse

stinx said:


> My 928 model number is HSS928AAWD. GF Serial number SADA1007602. I am confused as to what main jet is currently in the machine. I’m not sure if It has a 85 or 92. Any help is appreciated.


Take it out and read the side


----------



## notabiker

Better yet, pull that pos california air resources board approved junk off and spend $20 and get a fully adjustable china clone carb and turn a little screw to change jetting.


----------



## RedOctobyr

Heh, it is a bit ironic to think about replacing the Honda carb with a Chinese version, but you make a valid point. With an adjustable jet, you completely avoid the question of which particular size jet is best for your conditions. Just tune it the old fashioned way, and if it doesn't run quite right in the future, make a quick adjustment.


----------



## jrom

An under $7 OE jet and 10 minutes of work...badda boom, badda bing...done.

Order from your Honda dealer.

GX390
#110 – 1.10 mm .0433"– 99101-ZH8-1100

GX340
# 100 – 1.00 mm .0394" – 99101-ZH8-1000 

GX270 & GX240
# 92 – 0.92 mm .0362" – 99101-ZF5-0920 

GX200
# 78 – 0.78 mm .0307" – 99101-124-0780


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## bigredmf

I was talking to the owner of my local Honda dealer, he claimed they will not sell jets?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SimplicitySolid22

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/p/honda_engines/99101-zh8-1100/jet-main-110


https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/p/honda_power_equipment/99101-zh8-1000/jet-main-100


https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/p/honda_engines/99101-zf5-0920/jet-main-92




https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hpe/505ce859f870022d24be0822/carburetor
(#19 Make sure you pick second one #78 to get 99101-124-0780........If you look at #19 on this one there are 5 Jets total in various sizes as well)


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## JnC

bigredmf said:


> I was talking to the owner of my local Honda dealer, he claimed they will not sell jets?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That's odd, its a Honda part not a third party part that he'd have trouble or issue ordering, may be installing it for you but not ordering it. My local dealer doesnt have an issue, just call or stop by the parts department, give them the part number and place the order, they usually have it in within a few days.


----------



## bigredmf

I worked there 30+ years ago and have bought a ton of equipment from them over the years.

They are extremely diligent when it comes to EPA compliance. The fines can be huge!

I recall them being visited by epa because they had some specific engine tuning tool loaded as being for sale on their website. Only dealers/techs can purchase and they are serialized and purchasers tracked.luckily they never sold one.
Granted that’s not a simple jet.
Red


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## drmerdp

notabiker said:


> Better yet, pull that pos california air resources board approved junk off and spend $20 and get a fully adjustable china clone carb and turn a little screw to change jetting.


As far as I know an aftermarket adjustable carb only allows for a pilot screw adjustment. The pilot jet and main jets are still fixed and require a swap or drilling to make an A/F change.

I understand dealers not installing larger jets, or tampering with the emissions compliance of a machine. But selling jets should not be a problem. If they are claiming such, then that dealer needs grow a pair.


----------



## Jarsh

RedOctobyr said:


> With an adjustable jet, you completely avoid the question of which particular size jet is best for your conditions. Just tune it the old fashioned way, and if it doesn't run quite right in the future, make a quick adjustment.


Did exactly that with a 3 year old 622 last winter. Went through the jet swap and there was an improvement. Then I found out about Waterlooboy making the adjustable needle. Thanks to one of the forum members, he purchased the needle for me, via EBay, and sent it to Canada. When I used it a while ago I freaked b/c I had a flame coming out the exhaust. It was late last season when I swapped it and didn't get to play around with it much. A simple adjustment and all was well. Did the EOD the other day and it started to bog. Leaned it out a hair and, again, all went well. If ever I were to upgrade to another blower, I won't be running it without an adjustable needle.

For a few dollars more, one can purchase one of these over the OEM jets. Saves the hassle/cost of swapping multiple jets and you can dial it in each and every time no matter the temp. Worth every penny!


----------



## 1132le

DriverRider said:


> Back in the day automobile carbs were rated CFM Cubic Feet Air/minute and were sized to engines according to performance desired, too small and it restricts engine intake, too large and the venturi effect drawing fuel through the jets in carb is negated.



They were sized by cubic inches of the engine max rpms and engine ve% for proper cfm sizing not performance desired


----------



## partypants

bigredmf said:


> They are extremely diligent when it comes to EPA compliance. The fines can be huge!


. 

These are all jets that have been used in factory engines over the years. If they weren't allowed to sell them anymore then they would have been forcibly discontinued by the EPA.


----------



## RIT333

partypants said:


> .
> 
> These are all jets that have been used in factory engines over the years. If they weren't allowed to sell them anymore then they would have been forcibly discontinued by the EPA.



The EPA has changed their rules over the years, and what may have been legal 10 years ago, may not necessarily legal today.


----------



## partypants

RIT333 said:


> The EPA has changed their rules over the years, and what may have been legal 10 years ago, may not necessarily legal today.


The part itself is still legal.


----------



## Aviator

partypants said:


> The part itself is still legal.


Yes, buying the bigger jet is completely legal. There is no law against the purchase or possession of a carb jet. It is not a controlled item. 

The legal grey area comes when you try to pay someone else, particularly your dealer, to install it for you.


----------



## Freddy Ford

When I used to work at a small engine repair shop years ago, when an engine would come in under warranty work due to poor performance, we were legally allowed to adjust the carb as we saw fit to get the machine running to factory specs. If that meant adjusting a pms screw or changing a jet, then so be it. Husqvarna OPE were notorious for being so poorly adjusted from the factory that some local dealers would have to tweak them before even selling them. I don't know how things are governed today, but I can tell you I've used some brand new trimmers and chainsaws recently that were horrendous straight out of the box, including a $4k Honda generator. The EPA (don't even get me started on CARB certified machines) has really made things bad for the consumer.


----------



## RIT333

Aviator said:


> Yes, buying the bigger jet is completely legal. There is no law against the purchase or possession of a carb jet. It is not a controlled item.
> 
> The legal grey area comes when you try to pay someone else, particularly your dealer, to install it for you.



Sure you can own it. Just curious - can a homeowner legally install it ? Obviously the EPA is not going to arrest John Q. Public, but is it really legal ? On the other hand, if a high-profile politician were to install it, EPA may want to set an example - if it was illegal. I know, this is all hypothetical, just curious !


----------



## Stephen0523

*jet for 1332*

Can someone post a link to where the best places to purchase.110 jet for my Honda 1332?


----------



## tabora

Stephen0523 said:


> Can someone post a link to where the best places to purchase.110 jet for my Honda 1332?


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Predator-2...d4:m:mNcTajo9s2ihPH_bsfMlUjg&var=531304687234


----------



## Aviator

RIT333 said:


> Sure you can own it. Just curious - can a homeowner legally install it ? Obviously the EPA is not going to arrest John Q. Public, but is it really legal ? On the other hand, if a high-profile politician were to install it, EPA may want to set an example - if it was illegal. I know, this is all hypothetical, just curious !


t 

Sorry, I don't know for certain if you can or cannot legally swap jets as an owner. Only that you cannot pay a dealer to do it. The EPA seems to be focusing enforcement on manufacturers and their dealer network, noindividuals.

This from page 14 of the Honda HSS928 manual:

"Maintenance,replacement, or repair of the emission control devices and systems may be performed by any engine repair establishment OR INDIVIDUAL, using parts that are certified to EPA standards." Define that bit of legalese however you choose. Is a carb jet legally defined as an emission control device?

Snowblowers are not registered, titled, licensed, or emissions tested like autos are. From a practical point of view, no one will ever know if you install any part on your your own machine that is legal to otherwise buy. Heck, some forum members have done complete engine swaps and installed bigger motors. 

Like you say, the EPA is not interested in John Q Public. You can always keep your old undersized jet in a safe place so you can put it back if necessary someday. ;-)
As of today, that is not necessary.


----------



## notabiker

bigredmf said:


> I was talking to the owner of my local Honda dealer, he claimed they will not sell jets?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've had this issue with buying a jet for my XR650L motorcycle, they'd only sell me a jet with a honda part number and only because it fit a different bike from the factory. No fiddling with different jets unless you go aftermarket, which I do from jetsrus or someplace like that but the shipping was the same as the jet. Going through the dealer I don't pay shipping and the wait is pretty much the same, just had to do research to find a bike that the jet size fit and get a honda part number to order it.




bigredmf said:


> I worked there 30+ years ago and have bought a ton of equipment from them over the years.
> 
> They are extremely diligent when it comes to EPA compliance. The fines can be huge!
> 
> I recall them being visited by epa because they had some specific engine tuning tool loaded as being for sale on their website. Only dealers/techs can purchase and they are serialized and purchasers tracked.luckily they never sold one.
> Granted that’s not a simple jet.
> Red
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I wonder if that was some sort of dynojet or even a yoshimura type fuel programmer or such that's a "for race only" type of thing.


----------



## Maynor1

*HS928 vs HSS928 part number interchange?*

Does anyone know if the HS928 Jet part number is interchangeable with the HS_*S*_928? See difference in bold below.





jrom said:


> I
> 
> GX270 HSS928 (2015 >)
> GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)
> # 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
> # 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
> # 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock)
> # 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-_*ZH8*_-0920 HSS928A
> 
> 
> GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
> GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011?)
> # 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
> # 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
> # 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-_*ZF5*_-0920 | HS828, HS928 (Stock)


----------



## bigredmf

RIT333 said:


> Sure you can own it. Just curious - can a homeowner legally install it ? Obviously the EPA is not going to arrest John Q. Public, but is it really legal ? On the other hand, if a high-profile politician were to install it, EPA may want to set an example - if it was illegal. I know, this is all hypothetical, just curious !



Pretty sure it is illegal but I've been called a tree hugging hippie.


My situational ethics say it is not immoral to do so.:surprise:


If your blower will perform better and clear faster it may result in a net lowering of emissions?


It's funny that the replacement Briggs I just purchased is tested/(guaranteed?) to be within emissions compliance for 200-250 hours? My 924039 will be 40 years old next year and is still running the original flat head. To bad it doesn't have an hour meter on it. Pretty sure it pollutes substantially more than any new ohv, probably regardless of the hours on either.


Red


----------



## RedOctobyr

I'm sure it's been mentioned, but if you're having trouble buying the larger-size jet you want, you could presumably buy the stock size (since you're "allowed" to do that), and drill it out to the desired diameter? I think I've seen that you can buy micro-drills in these sizes.


----------



## LDRider

Technically..... no. It is illegal to 'tamper' with any emission control(s) on any certified device (including things such as woodstoves, etc.). But practically speaking, I doubt anyone cares what homeowners, even a relatively lot of homeowners, do with their own machines. What the gov't does seem to get excited about is when a person or business makes any kind of easily purchased and used item that alters a certified device. An example of this is the state of CA and a company named DynoJet. DynoJet sells aftermarket pulse modifiers to adjust the fuel delivery on many different types of motorcycle and it is a popular item to purchase and use. They get around EPA restrictions by stamping the device 'For Racing Use Only" or similar, while everyone knows this is just a dodge. CA finally sued DynoJet, successfully, for selling 'too many' of these Power Commanders in CA using the simple logic that DynoJet sold more 'racing' devices in that state than there are in the entire world.  

So it seems that as long as it is one person doing these mods. at a time, it is overlooked. But if / when someone steps up and offers a method and / or device(s) to purposefully and willfully violate emissions controls on any kind of large scale, they become a target, which actually makes sense. 

Of course a metering jet does not fall into this category because it is not sold as something to get around any law but instead merely one in a series of legitimate parts. 

Besides, of all the people who buy and use OPE such as snowblowers, what percentage really modifies them anyway? I have to believe it is a very small minority, so emissions rules have already 'picked all the low hanging fruit' by managing the manufacturers in the first place. The next step, to check the emissions on small engines, would yield few violations at a huge cost to any agency trying to do that. 

Brian



RIT333 said:


> Sure you can own it. Just curious - can a homeowner legally install it ? Obviously the EPA is not going to arrest John Q. Public, but is it really legal ? On the other hand, if a high-profile politician were to install it, EPA may want to set an example - if it was illegal. I know, this is all hypothetical, just curious !


----------



## 132619

well spoken brain 

as one who is a co owner of a ope dealer/repair shop. WE ARE bound by federal epa rules, we can not modify in any way. heck they come around to see receipts for who takes away our drain oil and bad gas. 
this is next 
https://www.nettinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Honda-small-engines-3-way-catalytic-converter.pdf

race wise as a drag racer every part i use has labels on the boxes( for off road use only) or (for racing only).


----------



## Letit Snow

I race my snowblower against my neighbors all the time to see who gets done first....I think we are legal racers.....lol


----------



## foggysail

My opinion is the idea that a snowblower contaminates the air is ridiculous. How many puny gallons of fuel are used in a machine over a one year period???? 1-2 with an upper limit maybe around 5 gallons. OK, so there are guys out there trying to earn a buck, working their buns off and their machines run longer hours burning a greater amount of fuel. So what!!!

The fuel they consume would other wise be consumed by the property owners. Only big government can make a big deal out of small events. There are things far more important for government to be concern about


----------



## Nantuk

Hi I am new here I was wondering if you could tell me where I can find out the model number to order a part I have acquired an old machine with no tags or numbers I need an auger belt it's a yard man snowbird 10/33


----------



## Itsa62vette

Is the stock jet an 85 for a 2017 HSS928AATD? I installed a 90, did I screw up?


----------



## drmerdp

The stock jet is an #85. A #90 is a big step the right direction, #92 is the agreed upon optimal jet for a winter use gx270.


----------



## vootman

So if #92 is ideal on a HSS928 at lower elevations, for 6200’ would you suggest a #90 or even #88? It’s a very low hour machine if that makes any difference.


----------



## drmerdp

vootman said:


> So if #92 is ideal on a HSS928 at lower elevations, for 6200’ would you suggest a #90 or even #88? It’s a very low hour machine if that makes any difference.


That’s a very good question, I’m not certain what’s ideal for that elevation. Definitely between #88 and #90. 

Maybe you can do some test and tuning for the forum. 

Personally I feel a #90 would fit the bill. Itd be just a bit rich for a low hour machine.


----------



## tabora

vootman said:


> So if #92 is ideal on a HSS928 at lower elevations, for 6200’ would you suggest a #90 or even #88? It’s a very low hour machine if that makes any difference.


GX270 HSS928
# 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
# 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
# 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock & High Altitude Best)
# 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-_*ZH8*_-0920 HSS928A Sea Level

Per @*Aviator*:
*High altitude Jets on new HSS models* 
I just bought a new 2018 HSS928ATD in Denver Colorado for use at 7800' altitude. My dealer, who also sells and maintains racing motorcycles and ATV's would not install a high altitude jet when I asked him to at purchase. The mechanic told me he will not install the high altitude kit unless you report over-rich symptoms after use. "We tune all new units to Denver altitude with stock jets and get good results at altitude". This thread tells me why in great detail. By running the stock jets at altitude I am getting the effect of reaming out the main jet to the next larger jet size for free, according to Honda's high altitude chart.


----------



## niteshft

Has anyone re-jetted a Predator engine. This thread is long and a quick steer to that specific engine would be appreciated. I'm looking to purchase a 8 hp Predator engine to replace my 10 hp Tecumseh. It blew the rod and did substantial damage inside. It would cost me just a little bit more but and have a better engine in the end.
Thanks!


----------



## tabora

niteshft said:


> Has anyone re-jetted a Predator engine.


 Re-jetting the Predator is no different than a Honda or any of the other clone carbs... They use the same jets.

Look at the current jet first and see what you've got. Assuming that you're at sea level, for 8HP a #92 is probably in order. At 7800', use a #85. In between, adjust proportionally.


----------



## 132619

niteshft said:


> Has anyone re-jetted a Predator engine. This thread is long and a quick steer to that specific engine would be appreciated. I'm looking to purchase a 8 hp Predator engine to replace my 10 hp Tecumseh. It blew the rod and did substantial damage inside. It would cost me just a little bit more but and have a better engine in the end.
> Thanks!


you can download the manual from harbor tools for that motor and they do have a kit for altitudes shown on page 7 of the manual for that motor 

High Altitude Kit parts List - A
part Description Qty
1a Main Jet 3000-6000 ft. 1
2a Main Jet 6000-8000 ft. 1
3a Bolt Seal 1
4a Fuel Cup Seal 2


----------



## Maynor1

Maynor1 said:


> Does anyone know if the HS928 Jet part number is interchangeable with the HS_*S*_928? See difference in bold below.


 To answer my own question (and thanks for the PMs), there are physical differences between the HSS and HS 928 jets. See pics below. 

in short, the shoulder is on the bottom vs the top and there is more chamfering on the top of the HS928 jet. They seem to work/install just the same however. 

Part# reference (bold) and credit from somewhere else in this thread:
GX270 HSS928 (2015 >)
GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)
# 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
# 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
*# 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock)*
# 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-_*ZH8*_-0920 HSS928A

GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011?)
# 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
# 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
*# 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-ZF5-0920 | HS828, HS928 (Stock)*
*
*


----------



## jeffNB

I have recently re-jetted my HSS928 with a #92 jet (99101-ZH8-0920). The first test was a snow/freezing rain/rain event that took place last night. The #92 jet certainly wakes up the engine. It handled the EOD with authority and the governor was able to maintain the set RPM better than before. It also solved the governor hunting that sometimes occurred when going from full load to no load.

With a collar-less chute and the #92 jet, it now works on par with my old HS828. I plan to ‘read the plug’ after a few outings.


----------



## nwcove

northeast said:


> If this is problem then the solution is either fuel injection or a multi stage carburetor.


a mechanical mini 4bbl on a snowblower.......now that would be awesome ! just imagine the sound when ya got into the eod stuff.


----------



## Nshusky

Finally received the 2 new jets in the mail after the Canada Post strike delayed them since November.
I bought a 105 which I’ll put in first and once the blower has some hours on it I plan to put in the 110.


----------



## RedOctobyr

Pretty sure it's been discussed before, but can someone remind me why broken-in engines need a richer/larger jet than new engines?


----------



## drmerdp

Engine break-in focuses on piston ring to cylinder wall mating. The cross hatching on the cylinder wall acts as a file to hone the rings into a perfect seal. 

The rings and hatching wear together and the engine gains efficiency. Some of which is from a reduction in frictions as the crosshatching is filed smooth-er. 

Most is from an increase in compression. The improved sealing reduces or eliminates blow-by past the rings allowing the engine to ingest air more effectively and reduce the leakage past the rings during compression and most importantly combustion.


----------



## mmosberg

Bit the lemon and just made a deal on a brand new HSS 970A ETD (the European model description of the HSS 928). Coming over from a 2005 Husqvarna STE8024 I nearly cant wait to tuesday for delivery. The old BS powered qvarna is still roaring good, but she is getting tired. I took her apart, removed rust and painted her 4 seasons ago, but age is catching up with her faster and faster. I always wanted a tracked Honda and thought that why the h__l should I go for another 20 years with a blower I really didnt want.

I have been reading this thread with great interest. We dont have any EPA regulations in force over here in Norway, but being attached to the European Union a lot of crap regulations come into force here as well. My question is if anyone knows if the Honda blowers sold here are leaned down from the factory as well? I am living at 100 feet ASL and dont have any plans to bring the machine up to the mountains. Is the installed jet printed so the size of it can be identified?


----------



## drmerdp

Yes the jet has a number stamped into it. 

Im very curious as to what jet you have.


----------



## tabora

mmosberg said:


> Is the installed jet printed so the size of it can be identified?


Yes, the jet number is on the side of the jet. Go for a 92. The one shown here is a 98.


----------



## mmosberg

drmerdp said:


> Yes the jet has a number stamped into it.
> 
> Im very curious as to what jet you have.


I will revert with info.


----------



## hubilado

jrom said:


> Worth repeating here every several posts.
> 
> As always, thanks.
> 
> 
> Honda part numbers (99101...) are for OEM jets. #102, #108, etc. is the jet number you can use for aftermarket jets.
> 
> # 102 (1.02 mm, .0402") | 99101-ZH8-1020 | HSS1332A - GX390 Stock
> # 105 (1.05 mm, .0413") | 99101-ZH8-1050
> # 108 (1.08 mm, .0425") | 99101-ZH8-1080



Sorry if I haven't read far enough....but I've been reading many of these re-jetting posts on this and other threads and one thing I'm not seeing is what the altitude is for these various recommendations..... I have a bone stock HSS1332ATD and am at 7200 feet. The engine seems to be running OK, but I suspect I'm not getting maximum power...that could be just the altitude, but am wondering if a larger or smaller main jet would help. Honda recommends that I go one smaller...but LOTS of folks on this forum are way above that. Anyone out there with experience with this machine at or near my altitude?


----------



## hubilado

tabora said:


> Just installed my new tachometer on the HSS1332. RPMs with the stock 102 _.0402 _jet and factory throttle settings were:
> Idle = 2120 RPM
> Max Throttle = 3460 RPM
> 
> There was some surging throughout the range of RPMs. Ambient temperature was 34 degrees F.
> 
> I increased the Max Throttle to 3650 RPM, and the engine was surging over a 400 RPM range. Added about 1/2 choke to smooth it out as shown in the attached photo.
> Thanks to everyone who went before me for the education on jet swapping - with all your cumulative knowledge, it was a piece of cake...
> 
> 1. Removed the air box, carb cover, and lower cover.
> 2. Ran the engine with the gas off and choke applied until it died.
> 3. Opened the bowl drain to get the remaining tiny bit of gas out.
> 4. Tipped the blower onto its nose and made 2 index marks on either side of the float hinge boss. Note: my bowl was less than 30 degrees offset.
> 5. Removed the bowl and cleaned it (there were a few specs of crud on the end of the bowl screw).
> 6. Took an old screwdriver and ground it to be a perfect fit to the jet slot and hole. Removed the stock 102 _.0402_ jet and installed the new 110 _.0433_ jet and reassembled the carb bowl and checked for leaks (none).
> 
> The engine was perfectly smooth from 2120 to 3650 RPM with no surging and no choke required. Max RPM was consistent from the prior adjustment.





Name (and if you can, source) of the tachometer?


What elevation are you running this machine?


Thanks!


----------



## tabora

hubilado said:


> Name (and if you can, source) of the tachometer?
> What elevation are you running this machine?


 Racing Power Sports: https://www.ebay.com/itm/RacingPowerSports-Backlit-Digital-Tach-Tachometer-Hour-Meter-ATV-Boat-Bike-UTV/332514518214?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 (Also available unbranded or under other brand names, but @ $19.99 this is the best source I've found. I have purchased 2 from them.)

I'm at about 50 feet above sea level. If you're at 7,200 feet, the stock 102 jet would probably be about right, or maybe one step richer.


----------



## mmosberg

drmerdp said:


> Yes the jet has a number stamped into it.
> 
> Im very curious as to what jet you have.



So, on my brand new HSS 970A ETD (European metric name for 928) the jet is printed with "K 85 S". I am using the machine at 30 meter ASL. Should I go for a larger one?


----------



## drmerdp

mmosberg said:


> So, on my brand new HSS 970A ETD (European metric name for 928) the jet is printed with "K 85 S". I am using the machine at 30 meter ASL. Should I go for a larger one?


Well it’s official, #85 is universally the stock HSS928/970 jet. 

Definitely bigger jet. I would go straight for a #92.


----------



## mmosberg

drmerdp said:


> Well it’s official, #85 is universally the stock HSS928/970 jet.
> 
> Definitely bigger jet. I would go straight for a #92.



Where to order a #92 jet? Took a look on the Honda Power Equipment online parts look-up and the biggest there is #85.


----------



## drmerdp

mmosberg said:


> drmerdp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well it’s official, #85 is universally the stock HSS928/970 jet.
> 
> Definitely bigger jet. I would go straight for a #92.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where to order a #92 jet? Took a look on the Honda Power Equipment online parts look-up and the biggest there is #85.
Click to expand...

GX270 #92 – 0.92 mm [.0362"] – Honda part no.: 99101-ZF5-0920


----------



## Maynor1

The HS*S* part number is:
# 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-_*ZH8*_-0920 HSS928A


The "ZF5" is for the HS928


----------



## Maynor1

Note: when replacing a jet while on your back on cold concrete, at night, in a tight spot in the garage, rethink your plan. 

This is what happened to me after too many times taking down the bowl, messing with the bowl o-ring that kept dropping, getting a gas leak and re-tightening multiple times: a cracked stem. I temporarily fixed it with a small hose clamp but not the one pictured.

It was too big to clear the inside of the bowl. I wound up using a smaller nylon clamp but it still wasn't ideal. I still had a small leak around the bowl bolt due to the smaller, but still split stem. Slow enough to snow blow but a temporary fix only. 

The only solution is a new carb (Honda part#_16100-Z1D-H11_). Note: I found out the carb's Honda sell are NOT complete. You need to transfer several parts off the old carb onto the new one to make it functional. 

Those include the cap on the choke lever for water proofing, the sediment cup o-ring and siphon. All the other Honda carb mounting gaskets were reusable which was a relief.

Since the carb was swapped, it also required resetting the min/max rpm settings. Thankfully, I think it was Tabora that posted the service manual pics on how to accomplish that. It was much easier then the pics make it look and having all the air cleaner parts off made it a very simple job.


----------



## cmb

Maynor1 said:


> Note: when replacing a jet while on your back on cold concrete, at night, in a tight spot in the garage, rethink your plan.
> 
> This is what happened to me after too many times taking down the bowl, messing with the bowl o-ring that kept dropping, getting a gas leak and re-tightening multiple times: a cracked stem. I temporarily fixed it with a small hose clamp but not the one pictured.
> 
> It was too big to clear the inside of the bowl. I wound up using a smaller nylon clamp but it still wasn't ideal. I still had a small leak around the bowl bolt due to the smaller, but still split stem. Slow enough to snow blow but a temporary fix only.
> 
> The only solution is a new carb (Honda part#_16100-Z1D-H11_). Note: I found out the carb's Honda sell are NOT complete. You need to transfer several parts off the old carb onto the new one to make it functional.
> 
> Those include the cap on the choke lever for water proofing, the sediment cup o-ring and siphon. All the other Honda carb mounting gaskets were reusable which was a relief.
> 
> Since the carb was swapped, it also required resetting the min/max rpm settings. Thankfully, I think it was Tabora that posted the service manual pics on how to accomplish that. It was much easier then the pics make it look and having all the air cleaner parts off made it a very simple job.


Hey folks, anybody know what size (up graded) jet I'd need for my HS 724 Track Drive? Bought it new in 2004.


----------



## tabora

cmb said:


> Hey folks, anybody know what size (up graded) jet I'd need for my HS 724 Track Drive? Bought it new in 2004.


That vintage should have come with the proper #75 jet, but you could go to a #78 – 0.78 mm .0307" – 99101-124-0780


----------



## cmb

tabora said:


> That vintage should have come with the proper #75 jet, but you could go to a #78 – 0.78 mm .0307" – 99101-124-0780


Thank you Sir.


----------



## Snowbelt_subie

Man I wish I still had my 928 I would totally re jet it. It is just too much blower for my area and I couldn't pass up the $$$

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## jdm66

Big storm on the way so I'm looking forward to see how my HSS928 is going to perform after changing the jet and bumping the RPM to 3700.I just got it back from the dealer who did the hydrostatic fix with the oil reservoir so hopefully no more speed issues.


----------



## mmosberg

Got the #92 main-jet delivered today. More snow coming in tomorrow. Are there issues with adjusting the carburetor after swapping from a #85 to #92? Dont want a barkingengine tomorrow.


----------



## Xwild

Didn't touch a thing on my carb after rejetting my 724.. RPMs were already right where I wanted them.


----------



## Lake Effect

Check your rpm and your good to go. I found my HSS928ATD was 200rpm high from the manual spec(3600RPM). Not sure if the #92 jet effected it much, never checked it prior to the jet change.


----------



## mmosberg

Xwild said:


> Didn't touch a thing on my carb after rejetting my 724.. RPMs were already right where I wanted them.





Lake Effect said:


> Check your rpm and your good to go. I found my HSS928ATD was 200rpm high from the manual spec(3600RPM). Not sure if the #92 jet effected it much, never checked it prior to the jet change.


Thx. Will check rpms. Good to hear that mixture wont be affected.


----------



## jrom

Can you verify a source that says the ZH8 is for the HSS928 carb? 

I can only find where it fits certain HS828, HS928 and some GX390's in some Honda generators. 

Great if it does work in the HSS928 carb – CARBURETOR ASSY. (BE17E A) 16100-Z1D-H11 https://www.boats.net/product/honda/16100-Z1D-H11?ref=20a57ad6ffbf5fe814ec31d409fa987fc4c3ea0d 







Maynor1 said:


> The HS*S* part number is:
> # 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-_*ZH8*_-0920 HSS928A
> 
> 
> The "ZF5" is for the HS928


----------



## mmosberg

Done. #92 main-jet installed. Came out with smooth running in the whole rpm spectre. Only thing was the max rpms which increased abt 150 rpm. Adjusted down to 3650 rpm.


----------



## tabora

jrom said:


> Can you verify a source that says the ZH8 is for the HSS928 carb?


All the Honda carbs from about GX160 (maybe GX140, too?) up through GX390 take the same physical size jets, according to my supplier: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Predator-2...60a820ed4:m:mNcTajo9s2ihPH_bsfMlUjg:rk:1:pf:0


----------



## mmosberg

Yes, the ZH fits. See picture.


----------



## Stephen0523

I ordered the 110 jet for my HSS 1332 and today it was the final day it was supposed to be here and it did not arrive. I ordered it from here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232104529620
I am up here in Canada does anyone know of a reliable place that I can order the # 110 |1.10 mm .0433" quickly before winter is over?


----------



## tabora

Stephen0523 said:


> I ordered the 110 jet for my HSS 1332 and today it was the final day it was supposed to be here and it did not arrive. I ordered it from here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/232104529620


I've ordered multiple jets from them and they always arrived within a couple of days in the US. I know it takes longer than the eBay shipping calculator shows to ship into Canada, so give it a few more days... Did you get a tracking number?


----------



## Lake Effect

mmosberg said:


> Done. #92 main-jet installed. Came out with smooth running in the whole rpm spectre. Only thing was the max rpms which increased abt 150 rpm. Adjusted down to 3650 rpm.


Sounds right, as mine was 200rpm high after jet change(more fuel).

Final reference: 3600-3450rpm
https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/attachments/honda-snowblowers/135641d1520014184-hss928-governor-adjustment-question-bog-under-load-issue-ekh2nr1.jpg


----------



## allens209

Brand new 928. I ordered a 92 jet. Should I wait to break it in before changing the jet?


----------



## drmerdp

Nope, install and enjoy.


----------



## allens209

Sounds good, Thanks!


----------



## allens209

Installed the jet today. I marked the bowl, no leaks. Runs great. RPM went from 3450 with factory jet to 3520. Now I need some snow. We're getting ice now.


----------



## Stephen0523

*GX390 #110 – 1.10 mm .0433"– 99101-ZH8-1100*

Hello all. I ordered my main jet #110 – 1.10 mm .0433"– 99101-ZH8-1100 on Ebay here: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/232104529620

After ordering the original purchase and not seeing it delivered for a couple months I contacted the seller and he said he is shipping another one which is still not arrived. 

Does anyone know another place I can order this jet I live in Prince Edward Island Canada


----------



## Jae0

Stephen0523 said:


> Hello all. I ordered my main jet #110 – 1.10 mm .0433"– 99101-ZH8-1100 on Ebay here: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/232104529620
> 
> 
> 
> After ordering the original purchase and not seeing it delivered for a couple months I contacted the seller and he said he is shipping another one which is still not arrived.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know another place I can order this jet I live in Prince Edward Island Canada




I ordered mine from Boats.net. $4 for the jet and $8 to ship up to New Brunswick, Canada.


----------



## contender

I just bought a #95 today in Waterloo from a Honda Dealer for $6.20


----------



## Stephen0523

any links would be great!


----------



## Stephen0523

Great just ordered from boats.net


----------



## michaelnel

I assume these engines are jetted from the factory for use at sea level. I live at about 4,000 feet. If the engine is jetted lean at sea level, it will be richer at 4,000 feet, so would re-jetting still be required? I am thinking that merely taking an engine that is jetted for sea level up to higher altitude makes it richer... perhaps just right?

In the past I have found on various vehicles and other carbureted engines that they actually need to be leaned out some at high altitudes. I have not experimented with jetting on the HSS928ATD.


----------



## tabora

michaelnel said:


> I assume these engines are jetted from the factory for use at sea level. I live at about 4,000 feet. If the engine is jetted lean at sea level, it will be richer at 4,000 feet, so would re-jetting still be required? I am thinking that merely taking an engine that is jetted for sea level up to higher altitude makes it richer... perhaps just right?
> 
> In the past I have found on various vehicles and other carbureted engines that they actually need to be leaned out some at high altitudes. I have not experimented with jetting on the HSS928ATD.


Read this post: https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1648511-post8.html


----------



## michaelnel

Thank you Tabora.


----------



## Stephen0523

*My maximum RPM was 3700 using the EZ TACH 328 Plus set to 4.2 STR*

Hi all. I am still waiting for my 110 Jet to come in but in the meantime I thought I would check my RPM does this seem hi 3700 RPM at full idol?
This is the unit I am using. I set it to 4 stroke 4.2. https://www.esitest.com/328.html


----------



## jwasilko

Thanks for all the tips...I've got a #110 jet on the way for my HSS1332.


----------



## Stephen0523

My 110 jet finally came in and I was able to clear some very deep snow in the back I was very impressed with the increased power!


----------



## feh

Definitely after 10h or so after using mine after re-jetting it last year, no clogging issues and the machine is so powerful and a joy to use. Fires up much easier too.


----------



## snowonmind!!

*Just Re-Jetted my 2017 HSS928ATD*

Hello Everyone,
I just changed the main jet on my 2017 Hss928atd from a size #85 to a #92. The original settings was so under-tuned, that even with the new jet size the max rpms were only reading at 3500. I adjusted it up to 3630 & what a Difference. The under powered machine is gone. I can blow snow at max speed with no problem, & it chews through the heavy slushy crap at the road with ease & no clogs. Changing the chute & Re-jetting was a game changer!
Many thanks to drmerdp & other members for all the info, tips & how to videos.


----------



## Stephen0523

Finally got some serious snow today 15 inches approximately forty 40 cm this is not the deepest spot in the video when I was clearing the air but it will give he idea of how little the engine strains with the new jet which was a 110!


----------



## RedOctobyr

Very cool! Anyone know why there's so much more "activity" at the left-side (from the operator's perspective) of the bucket? It looks like both augers are turning, I think. Is the impeller just kicking snow in that direction?


----------



## russ01915

Stephen0523 said:


> Finally got some serious snow today 15 inches approximately forty 40 cm this is not the deepest spot in the video when I was clearing the air but it will give he idea of how little the engine strains with the new jet which was a 110!
> 
> https://youtu.be/rHrAhHfgGiQ


It appears you are going to fast. The engine noise is telling you that. I would slow down a bit before you get a speeding ticket.


----------



## drmerdp

Sounds strong with the #110.


----------



## Stephen0523

Yes I was going a bit faster than normal just to show the difference in power of the engine. At the same speed with the old jet, the engine would have almost stalled.


----------



## blue dragon

allens209 said:


> Brand new 928. I ordered a 92 jet. Should I wait to break it in before changing the jet?


Link to the jet you purchased? I'm picking up my 928 tomorrow, it will be the first thing I do.


----------



## allens209

blue dragon said:


> Link to the jet you purchased? I'm picking up my 928 tomorrow, it will be the first thing I do.


 This is the one I got.
https://superfastperformanceproducts.com/products/main-jet-honda-carb


----------



## Stephen0523

https://www.boats.net/product/honda/99101-ZH8-1100?q_ref=99101-ZH8-1100


----------



## jrom

I just re-jetted to a 110. Huge difference, even over the 108 jet. 

To anyone considering going to the 110 jet (in a GX390) in steps, I wouldn't do it, there's just not enough of a difference between the stock 102 and the 108...the 110 on the other hand is amazing.

Yesterday I cleared half of my neighbors drive (who've been gone for the winter), 300-400 feet, with a 108 jet installed and today I finished with the 110 – huge difference. Snow was/is super wet, over the bucket height in the drive and a good foot or more over the mailbox at the road and packed tight from the county plow trucks.

The HSS1332ATD goes through it like a champ.

drmerdp's Honda HSS Carburetor Re-jetting How-To-Video is super clear if someone needs guidance:

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/for...onda-hss-carburetor-re-jetting-how-video.html

Sorry if this a repost of the video, but this thread has gotten way too big for most to read through.


----------



## jrom

*Update on my re-jetting with a 110 on my GX390 and need some advice.*

I installed the 110 jet a month ago and I'm getting some engine hunting and puffs of black smoke when blowing heavy, deep wet snow. This started about a week ago and I've used the blower about 4 times including yesterday (Thu Apr 12). I've got 99 hours on my HSS1332ATD, it starts perfect, idles fine, runs great until I encounter the heavy stuff.

I'm using fresh 0E gas and my plug is pretty carboned up.

I should know this, but is there a carb adjustment I could make? 

I may just drop the 108 jet back in.

Thanks for some input.

- Joe


----------



## tabora

jrom said:


> I installed the 110 jet a month ago and I'm getting some engine hunting and puffs of black smoke when blowing heavy, deep wet snow.


Based on feedback from others, the 110 seems to work great at sea level, but the 108 may be more appropriate for you at ~1000'.


----------



## jrom

Thanks Tabora. I'll drop the 108 back in. I've still got a bunch of snow to test it out on.





tabora said:


> Based on feedback from others, the 110 seems to work great at sea level, but the 108 may be more appropriate for you at ~1000'.


----------



## jrom

With the 108 jet back in, it's running good and strong.

Guess those who want to re-jet should consider their elevation. According to my topo map, I'm somewhere between 800 and 900' and the 110 jet was too rich. Odd, it didn't show up for the first couple of weeks though.


----------



## RedOctobyr

If your temperatures have warmed up, that might contribute? Engines tuned for summer duty often run lean in the denser, colder air of winter. So as the temperature drops, you run leaner. 

Maybe it was cold enough that it helped the 110 jet run acceptably, making it a little leaner? And if the weather is warming up, you'll run richer. 

Or it could be something else entirely, of course. Just a thought.


----------



## jrom

Could very well be, Red.

Like a lot of folks here, we've been getting some wild temperature swings – a few were 25 to 35°F difference from one day to the next. The day I posted though, it dropped back to 29°F from 47°F the day before (I was taking notes).



RedOctobyr said:


> If your temperatures have warmed up, that might contribute? Engines tuned for summer duty often run lean in the denser, colder air of winter. So as the temperature drops, you run leaner.
> 
> Maybe it was cold enough that it helped the 110 jet run acceptably, making it a little leaner? And if the weather is warming up, you'll run richer.
> 
> Or it could be something else entirely, of course. Just a thought.


----------



## Toats MaGoats

My GX140 carb was a #70 main jet nozzle size but since I'm 3,300ft high I just rejetted to a #68 and wow what a difference that did. The carb was perfectly clean but I still went through the motions to clean it out again, why no, and it started on first pull and sounded sooooo much better. So smooth running at idle or wide open throttle. So glad I read about this. I also did my gc160 and went to a #62 instead of the factory #65 but not as noticable difference sadly and engine is still hunting up and down for some reason but it could be the old fuel. I also did a full carb clean-out on that too so I will look elsewhere but yea rejetting based on elevation is key

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


----------



## lake_effect

I am considering a #92 jet for a HSS928. Should I anticipate a noticeable impact on the exhaust emissions? Like will it make it smellier or dirtier? I've always appreciated that Honda engines running cleaner than a comparable Briggs or Tecumseh. I would like to keep it that way.


----------



## Lake Effect

lake_effect said:


> I am considering a #92 jet for a HSS928. Should I anticipate a noticeable impact on the exhaust emissions? Like will it make it smellier or dirtier? I've always appreciated that Honda engines running cleaner than a comparable Briggs or Tecumseh. I would like to keep it that way.


I didn't notice any drastic change other than running smoother. Keep in mind, this was the oem jet for the 928 before tighter emissions regulations. Current standards have these engines running so lean and hot, can't be running at peak performance.


----------



## blue dragon

My HSS928 ran stronger with a #92. I just rejetted my HSS724 and it ran like crap, had to put the stock jet back in.


----------



## lake_effect

Installed #92 jet this AM, couldn't be any easier thanks to this video.








Slightly disappointed I won't be able to compare before/after performance but I wasn't going to wait until it got snowy/cold to make the swap.


----------



## notabiker

I just wish fully adjustable carbs were easier to find... Swap a jet.. nah, just turn the high speed screw on the bottom of the float bowl..


Bought a cheap china carb for an old 11hp Tecumseh, easy peasy to find.. Picked up a new B&S 1150 snow series for a different blower and can't find an adjustable carb to save my life.. I purchased two adjustable high speed needles off eBay a while ago but the threads on the B&S float bowl bolt are bigger and the setup is a little different too but I can fix that.



I did pull off one of the adjustable ones off and I could remake it if my lathe wasn't 1000 miles away...


I did purchase a high altitude jet for that engine off eBay for $10 and am waiting for it.. We're only at 7,200 feet here so even with stuffy lean factory (thanks california.. for NOTHING) jetting it's still way right up here.


----------



## 71Dragtruck

I'm going to have to check my 1336 hybrid and see if it has a #102 in it, don't see much about that model on the site, and any changes people have made to them, I have searched.

I'm at 1680ft and thinking would also benefit from a jet change, I will likely wait and try it as is first and then do a swap to compare, while I'm at it will check RPM once my tach gets here and installed, and also compare again with a jet change.


----------



## 71Dragtruck

Well checked and my machine has a #105 in it, bumped it up a bit and drilled it to a #107, will pick up another #105 in case I have to swap it back, but thinking it will be fine for my altitude. Would have been better I guess to try the stock one first but had the carb off as I wanted to make sure it was clean being a used machine and all so have been going through it to make sure no surprises.


----------



## CalgaryPT

blue dragon said:


> My HSS928 ran stronger with a #92. I just rejetted my HSS724 and it ran like crap, had to put the stock jet back in.


Can you provide more details about your HSS724? I'm in Calgary and bought a new jet but haven't installed it yet. What size did you try? How was it running—fast, erratic, rich?

Thanks.


----------



## blue dragon

CalgaryPT said:


> Can you provide more details about your HSS724? I'm in Calgary and bought a new jet but haven't installed it yet. What size did you try? How was it running—fast, erratic, rich?
> 
> Thanks.


Bought a #78 jet. At fast engine speeds, I got a couple of back fires, at slow speed, it dies. I went back to the stock jet.


----------



## CalgaryPT

blue dragon said:


> Bought a #78 jet. At fast engine speeds, I got a couple of back fires, at slow speed, it dies. I went back to the stock jet.


Humm. You're at 270m, we are at 1000m or so. I was told #80, but I thought that may have been too big, especially w/o idle adjustment. Either way I think I will shy away from swapping the jet for now. In all honestly, I have never had a performance issue with my HSS724. I still haven't modified the chute because it has never clogged (yet). Granted your snow is wet, and Calgary's tends to be pretty dry.

I think my time is better spent with the chute mod and the impeller mod, which makes a lot of sense to me.

Thanks for the details.

- Peter


----------



## ZTMAN

I want to give the rejet a try on my HSS928. Anyone have a link for the best place to get a #92. Dealer says they "can't" sell them.


----------



## blue dragon

ZTMAN said:


> I want to give the rejet a try on my HSS928. Anyone have a link for the best place to get a #92. Dealer says they "can't" sell them.


boats.net is where I got my jet for my HSS928


----------



## ZTMAN

blue dragon said:


> boats.net is where I got my jet for my HSS928


Thank you dragon. I was looking at their website last night. Looks like they have a number of #92 jets. Any idea which one is the right part number?


----------



## blue dragon

ZTMAN said:


> Thank you dragon. I was looking at their website last night. Looks like they have a number of #92 jets. Any idea which one is the right part number?


I ordered 99101-ZH8-0920 Jet Main (#92) Honda. Part was $4.13


----------



## ZTMAN

Thank you. I called the dealer where I bought the Honda and he ordered the jet based on the part number. No shipping charges which seem extreme on the internet order sites.


----------



## Ronster1332

I read something here that Canadian models are jetted differently than US models. I just picked up a new Canadian HSS1332CTD. Does this unit have a larger main jet than its US counterpart?
All this talk of re-jetting has me concerned.


----------



## CalgaryPT

I never heard that when I was doing my research years ago. But I'll defer to others here who may know from personal experience.


----------



## blue dragon

Ronster1332 said:


> I read something here that Canadian models are jetted differently than US models. I just picked up a new Canadian HSS1332CTD. Does this unit have a larger main jet than its US counterpart?
> All this talk of re-jetting has me concerned.


From another post, the HSS series at jetted the same globally. Both my HSS274 and HSS928 had the same size jets as the US models


----------



## LoganH

I put in a .036 inch jet (91.44 sized) in my 3 yr old HSS928 this fall. Had no clogging with 3 inches of wet snow. New chute and jet seemed to fix it.


----------



## ZTMAN

Question for those who re-jetted. I got my #92 jet and am ready to install it in my HSS 928A. I watched the youtube video on how to install the new jet on the HSS 928. The fellow took out the jet and the emulsion tube stayed in the carburetor. He tapped on the carb so the emulsion tube came out. Is there any reason to remove the emulsion tube if it does not come out with the jet?????
Looks like he just reinserted the emulsion tube when he installed the new jet.


----------



## tabora

ZTMAN said:


> Is there any reason to remove the emulsion tube if it does not come out with the jet?


The only reason to remove it is for inspection/cleaning on an older machine. On a new HSS, I did not.


----------



## Lake Effect

Same here, didn't remove the emulsion tube as mine has relatively low hours and clean fuel. If it were running rough, check for clogging.


----------



## Advocate

Took about 15 minutes to swap out the jet and test on my 2017 HSS928 AT. Waiting for some heavy snow to see how it runs under load. Really appreciate the video by Daniel Panycia and the comments and suggestions by the other members here.


----------



## Nanook12

Great site here! I’ve ordered the hardline tach/hour meter and #92 jet for the HSS928A Honda. I’m 1500 miles away from that project now, will report on it later.


----------



## jets8x

I have a newer HSS724 and stock is #72. Under load it did feel lazy. I ordered a #78 based on several recommendations and it runs with zero issues. It does run better when moving through the throttle as well. I am at about 850 ft sea level, just fyi. I only have about 1.5 hours on the new jet, but when I run it again I plan on checking the plugs. 

I read some go kart forums where they run the gx200 engine and apparently some like to modify things to run an even larger jet, but the #78 seems like the sweet spot. I believe this information is correct, feel free to correct me if i am wrong though:

72: .0283
75: .0295
78: .0307

Hope this information helps.


----------



## Nanook12

I finally got the #92 jet installed in the HSS928AAT. The RPMs went up to 3600 according to the new tach/hour meter. I should have checked the RPMs before for comparison, I’m guessing they were about 3400. The idle RPMs are within specs. I’ve yet to operate under load, I’m waiting for the new skids to show, before I pull it out of the shop.


----------



## Fortech1977

Rejetted my HSS724 with the recommended #78 jet yesterday. Also installed a tach I purchased from Amazon and set the RPM’s at 3800. The machine definitely appears to be working much better than before.

Next up is to remove the collar from the older style chute and install some side skid shoes. Does anyone have any recommendations for side shoes? Honda OEM?


----------



## tabora

Fortech1977 said:


> ...Does anyone have any recommendations for side shoes?...


 I really like the Arnold Roller Skids. The slot spacing is too wide for the Honda, so you have to either adjust the slots or just add another mounting hole on each side of the auger housing. I used a universal offset adapter kit that is no longer available. I'd just add the additional mounting holes if I were doing it again.


----------



## 88-tek

Ok everyone, after 800 posts on this thread i have come to this conclusion...

EPA be damned, take the jets, toss 'em into the nearest dumpster, and run 'em wide open!!!! :3tens:


----------



## Nanook12

These guys make some nice ones... Snow Blower Skids for all makes and models

Smallish operation that mails them to you eventually. I ordered some on the eve of the 26th Dec. Tracking says they’ll be here on the 4th.


----------



## 2.137269

yes he makes a good skid, slow service as build to order is how he works


----------



## vmax29

Aren’t Armorskids available through Home Depot now?


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## tabora

vmax29 said:


> Aren’t Armorskids available through Home Depot now?


Yes, many models, but I don't see the Honda-specific Pro-Hond-2425-c model listed. (2-3/8" spacing & shave plate bolt relief)


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## Nanook12

tabora said:


> Yes, many models, but I don't see the Honda-specific Pro-Hond-2425-c model listed. (2-3/8" spacing & shave plate bolt relief)


That is his new version for the latest Honda HSS, I ordered a pair direct from him. pro-hon-2425-c | Snow Blower Skids

He is good about answering emails if you have any questions.


----------



## vmax29

I bought mine direct too and by the looks of this winter here so far, I will never have any wear on them 😐. At least this thread was Very helpful I did up the jet slightly and it helped with the slushy mess last season. Looking forward to not having to shovel that. 

Is this one the same though? No small c suffix. Just wondering:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/ARMORsk...-Fits-Slot-Spacing-Set-of-2-PRO2425/303127260


----------



## Nanook12

vmax29 said:


> I bought mine direct too and by the looks of this winter here so far, I will never have any wear on them 😐. At least this thread was Very helpful I did up the jet slightly and it helped with the slushy mess last season. Looking forward to not having to shovel that.
> 
> Is this one the same though? No small c suffix. Just wondering:
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/ARMORsk...-Fits-Slot-Spacing-Set-of-2-PRO2425/303127260


No, the newer ‘C’ model is cutout for the scraper bolt/nut


----------



## ZTMAN

Just finished re-jetting my HSS 928A with a #92. Went without a hitch. Thanks for you support and instruction fellas.

Could not see any visual evidence of the orifice on the new jet being bigger than the OEM, but I assume it is bigger. After re-jet ran the machine for a few, no leaks. Now just need some snow. Supposed to be 60 degrees this weekend.


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## 44North

I have a new HSS1332ATD operating at around 4200', so would a 108 be more appropriate than 110? TIA!


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## tabora

44North said:


> I have a new HSS1332ATD operating at around 4200', so would a 108 be more appropriate than 110? TIA!


 Probably a 105 at that elevation?

GX390:


 Up to 500’ - #110
 500’ to 3000’ - #108
 3000’ to 6000’ - #105
 6000’+ - #102 stock
And for the GX270:


 Up to 500’ - #92
 500’ to 3000’ - #90
 3000’ to 6000’ - #88
 6000’+ - #85 stock


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## 44North

tabora said:


> Probably a 105 at that elevation?
> 
> GX390:
> 
> 
> Up to 500’ - #110
> 500’ to 3000’ - #108
> 3000’ to 6000’ - #105
> 6000’+ - #102 stock
> And for the GX270:
> 
> 
> Up to 500’ - #92
> 500’ to 3000’ - #90
> 3000’ to 6000’ - #88
> 6000’+ - #85 stock



Thank you, Sir!


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## Nanook12

That doesn’t look correct! Sea level to 500’? Should be sea level to 2000’ for the first jet, then extrapolate from there...


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## tabora

Nanook12 said:


> That doesn’t look correct! Sea level to 500’? Should be sea level to 2000’ for the first jet, then extrapolate from there...


Others have found that using the 110 jet much above 500' leads to running rich, and have backed off to 108. The 110 is really an over-and-above solution to the conditions right at sea level in New England & The Maritimes.


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## 44North

I ordered the 105 and 108 for my GX390, so I will report back how they work at 4200'. 

It just dawned on me that I should have figured out what a GX200 (my pressure washer engine) needed and ordered that at the same time...freight costs more than the part. Is there a GX200 chart with elevation, that I missed. Perhaps a 
99101-ZH8-0780?


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## junior1954

Hi. I just ordered an HSS1332ATD. Thanks to this forum I discovered that these units run lean where I live (Chicago, around 800' above sea level). Also, thanks to this forum, I have discovered the gentleman who makes adjustable jets and sells them on Ebay. I corresponded with him and he assured me that his adjustable jet will correct the lean mixture designed into my Honda. Please excuse my ignorance but if an adjustable jet is available and it works why isn't everyone buying it instead of experimenting with different jets? Wouldn't this allow for adjusting to the precise jet size needed?

Thanks to all for being an excellent source of info.!


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## Nanook12

I would go with the fixed orifice jet that was installed before the EPA started the current lean craze. The only advantage to a variable jet would be, if you were taking the snowblower with you to the mountains or something. My Honda spends 99% of it’s time operating at a fixed elevation. Why would you want a simple fixed orifice to be variable? Go with the KISS philosophy...


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## RedOctobyr

I get KISS. But it seems like adjustable would give you more options if the carb starts to get a bit dirty, for instance. Rather than running lean until you can clean it, you could tweak the screw, and be ok, giving you time to clean it when it won't interfere with using the machine. 

Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong. But I'd still prefer the flexibility of adjustable jets.


----------



## Shovel

I think most people are more comfortable with the fixed jet as they know it's pretty close to being right.. with an adjustable jet they will always have doubts if they have it set right.
With no load and the engine running full throttle ..alot of the fuel is being supplied by the slow speed circuit of the carb anyway as the buttery is just cracked open...people richen the main to combat surging when the idle circuit is at fault.



Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


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## junior1954

I guess I'm a little obsessive. I've had lots of small engines with adjustable high speed jets and you can adjust them very precisely. I've really never had to re-adjust them because I keep my gas fresh/stabilized. It wasn't until the advent of pollution control that small engines turned to fixed high speed (and limited adjustability on low speed) jets. For an extra $20., after what I've spent on the Honda, I think having adjustability is better than not. I guess I was being presumptuous in assuming that if people were going to fixed jets instead of adjustable that there must be some disadvantages (besides cost) to using the adjustable jet. They are just as easy to install as swapping fixed jets, save for the inevitable adjustment to dial it in. I also can't take for granted that I'm an x-auto mechanic and an old fart that has been able to gain experience adjusting carburetors, which are going the way of the Dodo bird; closed-loop injection systems are far superior, though more costly. I'm going to give the adjustable jet a try-ordered one and it should be here before the blower. If for some reason it doesn't work properly I'll yank it out and put in a fixed 108. Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Miles

Just got the proper screwdriver and am waiting for #92.


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## junior1954

Thanks! Took a guess and ordered the small Briggs one-wrong! Large Briggs driver on order. Hey, you can't have too many tools!


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## MLF149

So glad I found this site! I know this is a very old thread. In 2003 I bought a HS928 - it was a beast. I sold in 2014 for $100 less than I paid new. I sold because I was living in a townhouse temporarily for 2 years and wanted to cash-in on the crazy number of storms that year. In 2015 I bought an Ariens 28 Deluxe with the LCT Engine. What a POS. Strong running engine when it ran, and wasn't leaking oil or gas. This year I got tired of the BS and I picked up a HSS1332ATD this week. I was really bummed and disappointed on the 1st use. Engine seemed weak, not at all what I remembered with my 928. I was thinking my expectations where too high until I found this forum. 

I know I need to do the jet swap. I'm at 500' above sea level. I read 1 post that the #110 was too big at 700-800' and went to a #108.

What does everyone recommend at 500'?

Thanks!


----------



## Johnny G1

Just finished blowing 8" hard packed snow and ice, the 92 jet made all the difference in my HSS928 definately no bogging this time time and only 15 hrs on the machine. So will wait and see how it does in 12" of fresh snow.


----------



## Spyle

Hi MLF,
I’ve got the exact same machine as you and I’m at 300’, put a 108 and increased the RPM from 3500 up until 3800 and believe me, it’s a totally different animal. I have installed the 108 jet and increased the RPM after I used the machine for over around 12 or so hours on the hour meter though. Some say it doesn’t matter if the rejet occurs before the breakin period while others say it’s better to wait until the machine reaches 10 hours or so. In my case, I decided to wait until reaching 12 hours.
Have fun...


----------



## orangputeh

Spyle said:


> Hi MLF,
> I’ve got the exact same machine as you and I’m at 300’, put a 108 and increased the RPM from 3500 up until 3800 and believe me, it’s a totally different animal. I have installed the 108 jet and increased the RPM after I used the machine for over around 12 or so hours on the hour meter though. Some say it doesn’t matter if the rejet occurs before the breakin period while others say it’s better to wait until the machine reaches 10 hours or so. In my case, I decided to wait until reaching 12 hours.
> Have fun...


What machine and what is recommended high throttle RPM's of that machine? are you getting more power from the rejet or the 10% increase in RPM's?


----------



## tabora

👆 +1 What @Spyle said!
I'm at sea level with #110 @ 3700. Wait until after break-in.








@Spyle be aware that at 3800RPM your lighting coil is making almost 30VAC and you're starting to get close to the LED "redline" where your LED will croak:


----------



## Spyle

orangputeh said:


> What machine and what is recommended high throttle RPM's of that machine? are you getting more power from the rejet or the 10% increase in RPM's?


I’ve got the HSS1332 bought brand new in the fall of 2017. I’m no mechanic by all means, just followed what other people experienced and recommended in this thread, must say though that I got more power from the rejet for sure. Recommended RPM is 3500 +0/-150 and decided to go the same route as drmerdp did and tried to increased to 3750/3800 and must say, it’s far more fun to work at that RPM than the stock one and from what I read, it shouldn’t hurt the engine, apparently they are built to get to work at a much higher RPM but the HST is build to work at a certain max RPM and also did not want to blow the LED light giving it to much voltage by running at a higher RPM, so I did not want to go higher than that and risking damaging the tranny or blow the light.


----------



## Spyle

tabora said:


> 👆 +1 What @Spyle said!
> I'm at sea level with #110 @ 3700. Wait until after break-in.
> View attachment 172107
> 
> @Spyle be aware that at 3800RPM your lighting coil is making almost 30VAC and you're starting to get close to the LED "redline" where your LED will croak:
> View attachment 172108


Thanks Tabora, did not know the exact voltage the light gets at 3800, I will surely lower it a bit...


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

MLF149 said:


> So glad I found this site! I know this is a very old thread.


Welcome to SBF MLF149









Nice upgrade to the 1332. Hard to imagine it's not giving you great performance. Changing out the jet might tweak it some but I find it hard to believe it's going to change it that much. Any chance you can get some help from the dealer, check the RPM before you tear into the carb.
I'm wondering what height they calibrate carbs for as they have to pick something for a standard ? With that thought I also know they're setting them lean for emissions so maybe a larger jet will bring your machine more life.

.


----------



## tabora

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Hard to imagine it's not giving you great performance. Changing out the jet might tweak it some but I find it hard to believe it's going to change it that much.


They are a bit anemic when you first get them. The steps already discussed are the correct ones for him to follow.


Kiss4aFrog said:


> I'm wondering what height they calibrate carbs for as they have to pick something for a standard ? With that thought I also know they're setting them lean for emissions so maybe a larger jet will bring your machine more life.


They all come with the #102 jet. Once it's broken in, the #108 @ 3700RPM will let it achieve its potential at his altitude.


----------



## orangputeh

Spyle said:


> I’ve got the HSS1332 bought brand new in the fall of 2017. I’m no mechanic by all means, just followed what other people experienced and recommended in this thread, must say though that I got more power from the rejet for sure. Recommended RPM is 3500 +0/-150 and decided to go the same route as drmerdp did and tried to increased to 3750/3800 and must say, it’s far more fun to work at that RPM than the stock one and from what I read, it shouldn’t hurt the engine, apparently they are built to get to work at a much higher RPM but the HST is build to work at a certain max RPM and also did not want to blow the LED light giving it to much voltage by running at a higher RPM, so I did not want to go higher than that and risking damaging the tranny or blow the light.


I have all the Honda shop manuals and dont like going against the Honda engineers who designed these engines


----------



## aa335

@tabora 

My HS1132 come swith a 98 jet. Do you think this is restrictive EPA jet or can I get a bigger jet? I am at 800ft ASL.


----------



## maxcbrdriver

During the spring I picked up a lightly used 2016 hss724a that I only just now got a chance to using. There wasn't a lot of snow, but the machine felt lethargic as I had to go pretty slow or bog the engine down. I understand the stock jet is #75. Im basically at sea level, so is the #78 the recommended upgrade path? For those who do upgrade the gx200, what is the estimated increase in power in percentage terms? Many thanks.


----------



## tabora

aa335 said:


> @tabora
> My HS1132 come swith a 98 jet. Do you think this is restrictive EPA jet or can I get a bigger jet? I am at 800ft ASL.


Looks like #98 was stock and #95 & #92 were the higher altitude jets. You could try a #102 and see if it is better or not. You can have my #102 for $8 including shipping if you want it.


----------



## tabora

maxcbrdriver said:


> so is the #78 the recommended upgrade path


That's my understanding, although some have also used #80 with good results:
GX200 HS724 (1998-early 2015)
GX200 HSS724 (2015-2018)
# 70 | 0.70 mm .0276" | 99101-ZK7-0700 | HSS724A
# 72 | 0.72 mm .0283" | 99101-ZH8-0720 | HSS724A
# 75 | 0.75 mm .0295" | 99101-ZH8-0750 | HS624K1, HS724, HSS724A (Stock)
# 78 | 0.78 mm .0307" | 99101-ZH8-0780 | 
# 80 | 0.80 mm .0315" | 99101-ZH8-0800 |


----------



## aa335

tabora said:


> Looks like #98 was stock and #95 & #92 were the higher altitude jets. You could try a #102 and see if it is better or not. You can have my #102 for $8 including shipping if you want it.


Ok. Sounds good. PM me with payment info.


----------



## LoganH

orangputeh said:


> I have all the Honda shop manuals and dont like going against the Honda engineers who designed these engines


The Honda engineers hands were tied by the EPA.


----------



## Spyle

LoganH said:


> The Honda engineers hands were tied by the EPA.


That is what I think also, another reason why I did the rejet and RPM increase


----------



## MLF149

tabora said:


> They are a bit anemic when you first get them. The steps already discussed are the correct ones for him to follow.
> 
> They all come with the #102 jet. Once it's broken in, the #108 @ 3700RPM will let it achieve its potential at his altitude.


Thanks everyone. You gave me the info I needed. I'm ordering the #108 and #110 but only planning on installed in the #108. Getting the #110 as a just-in-case at my 500' altitude. The part is cheaper than the shipping.

Now off to re-start another old thread. Auger Housing out-of-plumb. It was making me crazy trying to set rear skids and scrapper. I knew it was out 1/4" from left to right, but assumed nothing could be done about it. Hoping someone can tell me the torque specs for the 10 bolts.


----------



## mdubby

Hi all, I rejetted my 2012 HS928 but Im not sure how to adjust the rpms if needed. I bought a tach and will check this week. It just sounds like its not running right and a bit slow at full throttle. I looked but couldnt find any threads for a 928 but i may have missed it. Any help would be great.


----------



## ZTMAN

I had the same question. Re-jetted to a #92 last year. From the reading I did, seems like the GX270 should be set at 3600. I just got an EZ Tach Plus today, to check the rpms. It was right at 3600, from the factory. I did not adjust and will leave as is.


----------



## tabora

mdubby said:


> I rejetted my 2012 HS928 but Im not sure how to adjust the rpms if needed.


Here are the instructions for an HSS928. Hopefully they are not too different?


----------



## mdubby

Thanks Tabora - still confusing to me, ha. There is a hole in the plastic to access the throttle stop screw, so that i get. And my throttle cable is also set up the same as the hss928. But I dont understand the other adjusting screw they are talking about and think Id have to take off the air assembly to get to the top of the carb. Ill try the throttle stop screw though, just that may help.


----------



## mdubby

I take my previous post back - these directions make sense now looking at the blower with the access hole for the throttle screw in back and access to the idle screw from the front of the machine. It actually runs worse with the new jet with a lot of coughing and smoking, especially at low throttle so put back in the stock stock jet back in. I did bump up the rpms at full throttle but still waiting for my tach.


----------



## drmerdp

mdubby said:


> I take my previous post back - these directions make sense now looking at the blower with the access hole for the throttle screw in back and access to the idle screw from the front of the machine. It actually runs worse with the new jet with a lot of coughing and smoking, especially at low throttle so put back in the stock stock jet back in. I did bump up the rpms at full throttle but still waiting for my tach.


What the stock jet size, replacement jet size and your elevation?


----------



## mdubby

Im in Chicago area, about 500 ft above sea level, and qstock was an 85 and put in a 92, part *99101-ZF5-0920, *which I believe was the stock size before 2012 for the 928. It was really odd - i thought itd run just fine.


----------



## tabora

mdubby said:


> Im in Chicago area, about 500 ft above sea level, and qstock was an 85 and put in a 92, part *99101-ZF5-0920, *which I believe was the stock size before 2012 for the 928. It was really odd - i thought itd run just fine.


Your thoughts are correct, but perhaps your particular engine/location/fuel spec needs something more like a #88?
GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011)
High Elevation 99101-ZH8-0880 JET, MAIN (#88)
Mid Elevation 99101-ZH8-0900 JET, MAIN (#90)
Low Elevation 99101-ZH8-0920 JET, MAIN (#92)​​GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)​High Elevation 99101-ZH8-0800 JET, MAIN (#80)​Mid Elevation 99101-ZH8-0820 JET, MAIN (#82)​Low Elevation 99101-ZH8-0850 JET, MAIN (#85)​


----------



## mdubby

Well i think i know why it was running rough. i think gas is getting into the oil. It started fine today and i got the rpms set and just at the tail end of that it died and wouldnt restart. Oil is thin and smells like gas. Ill change the oil and does that mean the carb needs to be taken off and cleaned? Hopefully engine isnt toast.


----------



## mdubby

Im just wondering if i could spray down the needle seat or anything with carb cleaner if it is sticking in lieu of pulling the whole carb.


----------



## Spyle

Spyle said:


> Thanks Tabora, did not know the exact voltage the light gets at 3800, I will surely lower it a bit...


And I did, re-adjust down to approx 3700 yesterday, this way the voltage will be farther from the max, giving me peace of mind.


----------



## Spawn.Qc

MLF149 said:


> So glad I found this site! I know this is a very old thread. In 2003 I bought a HS928 - it was a beast. I sold in 2014 for $100 less than I paid new. I sold because I was living in a townhouse temporarily for 2 years and wanted to cash-in on the crazy number of storms that year. In 2015 I bought an Ariens 28 Deluxe with the LCT Engine. What a POS. Strong running engine when it ran, and wasn't leaking oil or gas. This year I got tired of the BS and I picked up a HSS1332ATD this week. I was really bummed and disappointed on the 1st use. Engine seemed weak, not at all what I remembered with my 928. I was thinking my expectations where too high until I found this forum.
> 
> I know I need to do the jet swap. I'm at 500' above sea level. I read 1 post that the #110 was too big at 700-800' and went to a #108.
> 
> What does everyone recommend at 500'?
> 
> Thanks!


MLF, one thing that could be in line with your situation here... I went from a craftsman 11hp to a small HSS724... from 32inched of bucket to 24... at first I could not believe how underpowered that 7hp felt.. until I installed a RPM gauge and read where the peak torque of my GX200 engine was.. 2800-3000 RPM... every time I was using the snow blower I would slow down because I could hear the engine loose RPM (I was thinking I’m bogging it down with that little snow!?!?)
Turned out I was NOT letting the engine reach peak torque and the governor opening up the throttle...

Now I let the rpm drop to 2900-3000 before starting to slow down the forward pace.. 

If I had operated my old craftsman like that, it would have stalled on me.. it feels like Honda’s governors are a bit slow to open up.. it took me a couple snowstorm to retrain my ear and brain from operating the B&S engine to the Honda way, if I can call it like that...


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## JnC

Any idea where I can buy a drill bit set that would cover me for the rejetting, I usually deal with the #92 (for HS928) and #110 for the HS1332, boats.net and UPS are making sure I dont get the parts I need till spring .


----------



## tabora

JnC said:


> Any idea where I can buy a drill bit set that would cover me for the rejetting


In my experience with motorcycles, it's really easy to over-drill the jets, especially when there are engineered dimensions for the taper into the jet. I quit drilling long ago and just purchase the correct jets, but not Honda ones. The Predator jets are identical as near as I can tell. I purchased my #110 here: Predator 212 cc Honda Clone GX160 GX200 GX390 Intake Carburetor Carb Main Jet [110]


----------



## IndianaRidgeline

I am at about 610 ft elevation here in Indiana. I have a GX160 in a HS624. My OEM parts manual shows the original jet could be #70, 72, or 75. What would be the largest size I could install for optimum performance, #80, 82, 85? Thank you for your help.


----------



## tabora

I just went to the Honda parts site to check on an item. Interestingly, the HSS1332AATD parts list now lists the "improved" richer jet sizes in addition to the stock and high altitude sizes:


03499101-ZH8-0950JET, MAIN (#95) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Lean 2
 

03499101-ZH8-1000JET, MAIN (#100) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Lean 1
 

03499101-ZH8-1020JET, MAIN (#102) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Stock
 

03499101-ZH8-1080JET, MAIN (#108) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Rich 1
 

03499101-ZH8-1100JET, MAIN (#110) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Rich 2


----------



## MLF149

tabora said:


> I just went to the Honda parts site to check on an item. Interestingly, the HSS1332AATD parts list now lists the "improved" richer jet sizes in addition to the stock and high altitude sizes:
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-0950JET, MAIN (#95) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Lean 2
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-1000JET, MAIN (#100) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Lean 1
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-1020JET, MAIN (#102) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Stock
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-1080JET, MAIN (#108) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Rich 1
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-1100JET, MAIN (#110) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Rich 2


That is interesting. I'm the one with the new HSS1332 that leaked oil from the flywheel side seal. I took it back and I'm getting the replacement this Summer (been running the Ariens.) I am concerned about additional EPA changes on the newer model (2020 +) as you previously pointed out the carb & tanks are different. I'm really hoping the re-jetting "rules" apply to those models when I get it. I was really disappointed in the power of the 2019 stock jets. The china LCT 254cc on my Ariens put out more power stock.


----------



## tabora

MLF149 said:


> I'm really hoping the re-jetting "rules" apply to those models when I get it. I was really disappointed in the power of the 2019 stock jets.


The stock jet is the #102. You just need to put in the correct jet for your altitude...


----------



## drmerdp

tabora said:


> I just went to the Honda parts site to check on an item. Interestingly, the HSS1332AATD parts list now lists the "improved" richer jet sizes in addition to the stock and high altitude sizes:
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-0950JET, MAIN (#95) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Lean 2
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-1000JET, MAIN (#100) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Lean 1
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-1020JET, MAIN (#102) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Stock
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-1080JET, MAIN (#108) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Rich 1
> 
> 
> 03499101-ZH8-1100JET, MAIN (#110) (CARBURETOR NO.)10000019999999 Rich 2


Well how about that. That’s what I call progress.


----------



## IsThisRight

I'm having a problem that "seems" like it might solved via a re-jetting

*PROBLEM:*
Rough start, low power (full detail description below)

*GOAL:*
Smooth idle and full throttle, RPM about 3,600 at full with expected power under load

*WHAT I HAVE:*

Snowblower: Model: HS928WA; Serial: SZAS-1130825
Engine GX270 - GCAB-2034635
*WHAT I'VE DONE:*

New spark plug make/model and gapped per manuals
New OEM carb per parts manual (16100-ZE2-J41) from Honda Dealer (old carb was in great shape/very clean but not OEM so wanted to rule it out)
Cleaned out tank fresh premium gas
I didn't change out what I think is the gas filter in the tank - so it's hard to confirm if it's clean but the tank was pretty spotless in the first place
*NOTES*:

It looks like I have a K0 model based on ser SZAS, per questions on new hs928wa purchase
An earlier thread indicates that the GX270 HS928K0 should use a main jet a #92 99101-ZH80920 for low elevation (I'm in MA)
Bought on Craigslist from 2nd owner who said he used it maybe a hand full of times in 4 years - stored in shed w/ no gas in it (super clean all around defintely always stored inside) The only real indication of use is the fact that the main auger bearing was toast, I replaced it
Old carb was reaaly erratic, I started it it revved incredibly high, low, high, low (almost stalling). I turned it off for a minute and try it again and it went away, blew snow for about 1.5 hours got the job done but there were some sketchy moments where if it didn't have a load it would almost come to a stall (which it actually did twice). RPMs were around 3,100 at best but randomly would sink much lower
*DETAIL DESCRIPTION OF PROBLEM:*

Startup took a few pulls to start (old carb mostly started on 1st pull), then revved up and down a lot, so I let it do that for about 1-2 minutes and eventually it evened out (about 3,100-3,200). The rough start was unusual but the eventual evening out was an improvement
I then put everything back together (the covers and whatnot) and started it up and the RPMs with the lever on run and down to idle were essentially the same (2,200 when I measured it)
I then took off the air filter cover (has no air filter in it as expected) and the RPMs when up a little to 2,500 (from 2,200 before I took the cover off)
I then screwed in the plastic idle screw on the carb all the way in and the RPMs went way up to about 3,500 which sounded about perfect and it wasn't revving, but when I lowered the lever to idle the RPMs stayed the same at about 3,500
At this point the idle screw is all the way in and revving pretty smoothly at about 3,500 - when I put load on it actually blowing snow, even a relative small amount, the RPMs immediately dramatically dropped and it barely could throw any snow, pretty much no power


----------



## JnC

Two things, 


Your machine can use a new jet #92, as your machine is the later of the HS928 models it probably has the lean jet installed.
The idle screw and governor needs to be adjusted. When you put load on the machine the governor should keep the RPMs relatively high, MAX rpm should be set around 3600 +/- 150, I usually set mine around 3700.


----------



## IsThisRight

@JnC - Thanks so much for your reply, it's much appreciated!

So based on the problem I've described it sounds like you're saying I'm on the right track with this thread (Re-jetting) so that's good to know, thanks for that confirmation. But you're also suggesting a governor adjustment might also be necessary as well. Also thanks for confirming that it's ok to set the RPMs at max (3,600) or even slightly higher at 3,700.

It seems like both the jet and governor adjustments would have a similar impact on the revving and power issue I've described, should I do one first then the next if necessary and if so, which one should I do first?
I've mostly read about drilling the main jet vs governor adjustment so I'm slightly more inclined to start with the jet
Note: The carb didn't come with the machine, it's brand new (purchased from a Honda dealer locally)

Is there any markings on the jet to determine if it's a #92? The non-OEM carb I replaced didn't have any jet markings?
Does anyone know the diameter of the #92 jet hole? It seems like drilling it out with fine bits like these would allow flexibility to increase/fine tune it vs relying on a purchased jet alone


----------



## tabora

IsThisRight said:


> I then put everything back together (the covers and whatnot) and started it up and the RPMs with the lever on run and down to idle were essentially the same (2,200 when I measured it)
> I then took off the air filter cover (has no air filter in it as expected) and the RPMs when up a little to 2,500 (from 2,200 before I took the cover off)
> I then screwed in the plastic idle screw on the carb all the way in and the RPMs went way up to about 3,500 which sounded about perfect and it wasn't revving, but when I lowered the lever to idle the RPMs stayed the same at about 3,500
> At this point the idle screw is all the way in and revving pretty smoothly at about 3,500 - when I put load on it actually blowing snow, even a relative small amount, the RPMs immediately dramatically dropped and it barely could throw any snow, pretty much no power


Your idle should be down around 2,200. Max should be around 3,700.

















IsThisRight said:


> Is there any markings on the jet to determine if it's a #92? The non-OEM carb I replaced didn't have any jet markings?


Yes, jets should have the number on them, like this #80:









Don't drill a Honda jet, get the correct size one. Drilling them changes the geometry of the venturi and can lead to them spitting gas rather than atomizing it.


----------



## Town

tabora said:


> Don't drill a Honda jet, get the correct size one. Drilling them changes the geometry of the venturi and can lead to them spitting gas rather than atomizing it.


Are you saying the jet itself has a longitudinal venturi shape that a drilled jet would destroy? A lot of members here say they drill their jets. I have never made any changes to the stock main jet, but I don't want to screw up if I change/drill mine this spring.


----------



## IsThisRight

tabora said:


> Your idle should be down around 2,200. Max should be around 3,700.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, jets should have the number on them, like this #80:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't drill a Honda jet, get the correct size one. Drilling them changes the geometry of the venturi and can lead to them spitting gas rather than atomizing it.


@tabora , that is some fantastically helpful documentation (particularly the max adjustment)! Thanks for the advice on not drilling the jet (and why) and the indirect reference to boats.net!

Just double-checking, should I be looking for 92 (not 80) on my jet, as in my case (Model: HS928WA; Serial: SZAS-1130825 ) I want #92?
If so, here's a pic of my actual jet which shows "92S" which I'm assuming is exactly what I want which means the only thing I should be doing to solve my problem is adjust the RPM (per your documentation) to max to around 3,600-3,700 (as well as idle around 2,200), correct?









Also, is it normal that I lost about 3,000 RPM simply putting the air filter cover (which has no air filter in it) on? I ask because I'm not sure I can make adjustments unless it's off.
Note: I do have an older HS vs the HSS doc you referenced but it looks like all but the choke adjustment (I don't have a choke knob) but I can worry about that later. For reference, this is what it looks like on my HS928


----------



## tabora

Town said:


> Are you saying the jet itself has a longitudinal venturi shape that a drilled jet would destroy?


Yes. Drilled jets seem to squirt fuel, not spray it. They tend to act more like Reverse Type jets.


----------



## tabora

IsThisRight said:


> I want #92?


Yes. Sounds like you already have it.


IsThisRight said:


> Also, is it normal that I lost about 3,000 RPM simply putting the air filter cover


No, that would be completely whackadoodle. The air filter cover +/- should make virtually no difference in RPM. Nor does jetting. It's all about the throttle stops.


----------



## Town

tabora said:


> Yes. Drilled jets seem to squirt fuel, not spray it. They tend to act more like Reverse Type jets.
> View attachment 175594


Thank you for taking the time to show me and explain how the jets work when correctly set-up. Your knowledge is very impressive. The differences are quite subtle since they all encompass a venturi effect. I guess the main venturi where the main jet feeds into the air stream is not sufficient to atomize the faster fuel delivery of the Reverse Type main jet. 

So if the Ariens main jet on the 414 AX engine is a Reverse Type then I may be able to drill it out just a little if I cannot get a replacement larger size?

Thank you for educating me.


----------



## IsThisRight

tabora said:


> Yes. Sounds like you already have it.
> 
> No, that would be completely whackadoodle. The air filter cover +/- should make virtually no difference in RPM. Nor does jetting. It's all about the throttle stops.


@tabora , lol, yeah an air filter cover effecting the RPMs seemed absolutely crazy to me too - I'll shelf that and give the instructions you sent a try. Speaking of which, I'm having a little difficulty interpreting the instructions which states to move the throttle to "FAST" but seemingly then contradict that by saying to ensure that the throttle is also only 4-6mm from the control panel. It would seem that if the throttle is also only 4-6mm from the control panel, you'd be at the "SLOW" (idle) position, not the "FAST" position. Might you be able to explain?


----------



## tabora

IsThisRight said:


> ensure that the throttle is also only 4-6mm from the control panel


It's at the other (the Fast) end. They want to make sure that the throttle lever is not being stopped by the front end of the control panel slot. The diagram clearly shows that, but the viewpoint is about 180 degrees away from your photo.

I'm not sure that's workable with your integrated choke. See my next post for the HS Throttle instructions.


----------



## drmerdp

Town said:


> Thank you for taking the time to show me and explain how the jets work when correctly set-up. Your knowledge is very impressive. The differences are quite subtle since they all encompass a venturi effect. I guess the main venturi where the main jet feeds into the air stream is not sufficient to atomize the faster fuel delivery of the Reverse Type main jet.
> 
> So if the Ariens main jet on the 414 AX engine is a Reverse Type then I may be able to drill it out just a little if I cannot get a replacement larger size?
> 
> Thank you for educating me.


Im pretty sure that generic honda clone jets fit the Ariens AX engines. They sized by the thousands of an inch.

I wouldnt sweat drilling the jet up one size. But I wouldnt go more then one drill size up. The fully broken in predator 301 on my simplicity 860 needs more fuel now. I drilled it up one size a couple years ago. I bought an adjustable jet from NR racing a couple years ago that i might try. It uses a .043 jet then the needle to obstruct the jet to reduce fueling to the right ratio.


----------



## drmerdp

IsThisRight said:


> @tabora , lol, yeah an air filter cover effecting the RPMs seemed absolutely crazy to me too - I'll shelf that and give the instructions you sent a try. Speaking of which, I'm having a little difficulty interpreting the instructions which states to move the throttle to "FAST" but seemingly then contradict that by saying to ensure that the throttle is also only 4-6mm from the control panel. It would seem that if the throttle is also only 4-6mm from the control panel, you'd be at the "SLOW" (idle) position, not the "FAST" position. Might you be able to explain?
> View attachment 175709
> 
> View attachment 175711


You have an interesting issue. have you inspected your governor linkage for smooth operation? almost sems like something is binding causing such erratic engine speeds. I'm not a fan of that type of throttle control, with the choke intergrated. You might want pull the airfilter assembly off and get eyes on how everything is operating.


----------



## IsThisRight

tabora said:


> It's at the other (the Fast) end. They want to make sure that the throttle lever is not being stopped by the front end of the control panel slot. The diagram clearly shows that, but the viewpoint is about 180 degrees away from your photo.


Ahhh... thanks @tabora , I see, particularly from the curve in the throttle handle. Ugh, not one of my proudest moments... Hopefully this question is a little less foolish, which of the following 2 screws would be the adjustment screw and what it the other screw for?


----------



## IsThisRight

drmerdp said:


> You have an interesting issue. have you inspected your governor linkage for smooth operation? almost sems like something is binding causing such erratic engine speeds. I'm not a fan of that type of throttle control, with the choke intergrated. You might want pull the airfilter assembly off and get eyes on how everything is operating.


@drmerdp , thank you for taking a look at my post, it's very much appreciated! See this link for a pic of the governor and linkage and a short video as to how the linkage works while moving the throttle to all positins (without the motor running). You have to move the gas tank aside and the gas hose isn't that long to do so making it hard to show in a video while it's running to also see the governor.


----------



## tabora

IsThisRight said:


> which of the following 2 screws would be the adjustment screw and what it the other screw for?


This diagram shows the two screws involved in setting the max RPM. The remaining screw to the left is the idle stop.


----------



## drmerdp

IsThisRight said:


> @drmerdp , thank you for taking a look at my post, it's very much appreciated! See this link for a pic of the governor and linkage and a short video as to how the linkage works while moving the throttle to all positins (without the motor running). You have to move the gas tank aside and the gas hose isn't that long to do so making it hard to show in a video while it's running to also see the governor.


I don’t have an HS machine with the choke integrated with the throttle so I can’t be certain but the choke lever seems to be moving oddly when you go in and out of the choke position.

Have you removed the air cleaner assembly and observed the choke plate while operating the throttle level? I’d also disconnect the the choke controls to manually manipulate the plate and check for engine operation.


----------



## Town

drmerdp said:


> Im pretty sure that generic honda clone jets fit the Ariens AX engines. They sized by the thousands of an inch.
> 
> I wouldnt sweat drilling the jet up one size. But I wouldnt go more then one drill size up. The fully broken in predator 301 on my simplicity 860 needs more fuel now. I drilled it up one size a couple years ago. I bought an adjustable jet from NR racing a couple years ago that i might try. It uses a .043 jet then the needle to obstruct the jet to reduce fueling to the right ratio.
> 
> View attachment 175715


Thank you so much for that helpful information. I will check out the Honda clone jets and compare to mine. I have been told the stock jet is a #113, but I have not looked at it yet.


----------



## IsThisRight

tabora said:


> This diagram shows the two screws involved in setting the max RPM. The remaining screw to the left is the idle stop.
> View attachment 175720


@tabora , I'm in a significantly better place, it's revving smooth and around 3,600-3,700 on high and I have significant power - wow, lots of power! I went throw 18 inches of dense packed snow (full 28" of the bucket) successfully (though pretty slow) and although the RPMs went down a little it seemed expected and never felt at all like it was going to stall. So, high/Fast seems to be great (that was my main goal), adjusting screw #2 has been set. Here are my lower priority concerns

The following can be better understood by watching *this short video*
Adjusting the lock nut and adjusting nut definitely had an impact but I'm not sure if it's just because it may have just loosened up something because
When I raise/tighten it clockwise or lower it in reverse about a good 1/4 inch it doesn't seem to make much difference (I expected to hear the engine rev higher and lower but that didn't happen) so I just picked a spot and tightened it - this doesn't seem right

Slow (idle) is a bit high, revving around 2,800-2,900 (It was around 2,200-2,400 which I think is more appropriate)
I know you mentioned the other screw (next to the fast adjustment screw) is the idle screw, but
Turning that screw doesn't seem to impact any behavior
I know the plastic screw on the other side seems to be associated to the idle as well - if I screw that plastic one in all the way it revs fast, if I turn it out about 2 full turns (which is where I left it) it settles but now it settles at 2,800-2,900 (vs around 2,200-2,400 before)


Adjusting screw #1 doesn't seem to impact any behavior, whether I screw it all the way in or unscrew it all the way which makes me think I'm missing something
Choke doesn't seem to rev much faster than fast (if any) which makes me think I'm missing something. I definitely feel it pull when I push it past fast and it seems to move the same way as it always did, but before, it did cause it to ref higher (albeit very rough and closer to the appropriate fast RPM around 3,600)
Again, I'm worlds better than I was, i.e. I can use it, it throws snow amazingly! I'd just like to see if I can get advice to get it in the best possible place and have absolute appreciation for your help (as well as others in this forum)


----------



## tabora

IsThisRight said:


> Slow (idle) is a bit high, revving around 2,800-2,900 (It was around 2,200-2,400 which I think is more appropriate)
> 
> I know you mentioned the other screw (next to the fast adjustment screw) is the idle screw, but
> Turning that screw doesn't seem to impact any behavior


Turning the stop screw does not do anything to change things. You loosen it all the way and then set the idle at 2,200 using the adjustment screw. Once you have the idle set correctly, you screw in the idle stop until the idle speed increases slightly, and then back it off 1/2 turn.










IsThisRight said:


> Adjusting screw #1 doesn't seem to impact any behavior, whether I screw it all the way in or unscrew it all the way which makes me think I'm missing something


Again, #1 is a stop screw, not an adjustment. The adjustment is nut #5.


----------



## IsThisRight

tabora said:


> Turning the stop screw does not do anything to change things. You loosen it all the way and then set the idle at 2,200 using the adjustment screw (#2 in the diagram below). Once you have the idle set correctly, you screw in the idle stop until the idle speed increases slightly, and then back it off 1/2 turn.
> View attachment 175727
> 
> 
> Again, #1 is a stop screw, not an adjustment. The adjustment is nut #5.


Thanks again @tabora . At this point I pretty much have settled on about 2,500 RPM for idle and 3,500 on high (lower than the 3,700 I wanted). Start takes about 2 pulls, must be on choke for about 20 or so seconds (otherwise it dies out), then I can move it to fast or idle no problem.

Note, you mentioned 2,200 for idle, but that seems to be a bit higher than the 1,400 specified in the *GX270 manual*

What I found was that it was necessary to adjust a lot.

I learned the importance of warming up the engine a bit for the idle to even out
To get the idle as low as 2,500, I adjusted the speed adjustment nut (#4 & #5) until it slowed down to the lowest idle I could get - I don't think this is the usual approach
I found no use for the #1 stop screw, it never touched anything at any throttle, even if all the way screwed in - makes me think I'm missing something?
The #2 screw was very useful in stopping the back and forth revving on high throttle (done by screwing it in a little), though it sounded like you were saying to use #2 screw to set the idle to 2,200
Note, I set the plastic idle stop about 1/2 turn from a slight RPM increase as you described

When I thought I had it right, I'd hit a load with heavy dense snow and experienced erratic revving requiring more adjustments of the high speed stop screw (which would lower the RPM slightly) _see *this link* for videos that better explain/exemplify this_- I've adjusted #2 screw a bit more since this video and it seems a little bit more even (less revving)
The instructions indicate to set the adjustment nut, then the stop screw (#2) but the tuning under load that I found necessary seemed to make that a difficult approach
Also, when the snow load was added, sometimes it picked up the RPM/power by itself to drive through the heavy stuff, then when it went off the snow load it would rev back and forth a bit and had a hard time settling sometimes.

The increased RPM/power when hitting a heavy snow load was interesting to me but it seemed a bit inconsistent when the load varied (I'm not even sure this is expected though I have read others mentioning it)
I actually read *here* with a heavy snow load you should keep it at a lower throttle and go slow, but I found that didn't work for me because it wouldn't reach the higher RPM if I started at a lower throttle - maybe this is another indication that I have something wrong?
Moving through thick heavy show required the ability to carefully find the right slow speed setting which I found to be a bit tedious

I do realize that I'm just a hack here but still just doing the best I can with the much appreciated help of you all. I'm not sure if my struggles are just being a newbie or it being an 18 yr old machine, albeit in seemingly excellent condition. I do wonder of adjusting the governor are might help but it's tough because that requires removing the tank so I wouldn't be able to tune it while blowing snow (which seems to be needed in my experience as described)

Although not as tuned as I'd like it to be, I think I'm ready for the upcoming expected 5-8 inches of snow this week - definitely curious how fast I can move through that many inches of snow, I've only been tuning with dense heavy buckets of snow at a very low speed.


----------



## tabora

IsThisRight said:


> but that seems to be a bit higher than the 1,400 specified in the *GX270 manual*


That manual you linked to is for LPG powered engines, not gasoline, and not snow blower engines; details, details.


----------



## IsThisRight

tabora said:


> That manual you linked to is for LPG powered engines, not gasoline, and not snow blower engines; details, details.


@tabora My apologies, my resource of finding manuals and whatnot has been google. I didn't notice that manual was LPG specific and what I found were direct links to actual .pdf manuals. I found what appears to be the *GX270 manual for gas* (which is also 1,400) but wasn't able to find one that was snowblower specific (which sounds like you have and states 2,200 which is definitely good enough for me) and the *HS928 manual I have* (for my serial #) doesn't include the standard RPM


----------



## Rooskie

IsThisRight said:


> I actually read *here* with a heavy snow load you should keep it at a lower throttle and go slow, but I found that didn't work for me because it wouldn't reach the higher RPM if I started at a lower throttle - maybe this is another indication that I have something wrong?


I am very surprised to read that. Right from the factory.


----------



## tabora

IsThisRight said:


> the *GX270 manual for gas* (which is also 1,400) but wasn't able to find one that was snowblower specific (which sounds like you have and states 2,200 which is definitely good enough for me) and the *HS928 manual I have* (for my serial #) doesn't include the standard RPM


I'd strongly recommend getting the HS928 shop manual (not available as a complete PDF online). The settings for the throttle are specific to the machine, not the engine. In the case of the HS928, you're powering a light so the minimum idle RPM of 2,000 to 2,200 is necessary to make sufficient voltage as well as supporting engaging the augers without stalling.

The attachment in post #881 covers step 1, the max speed. The following shop manual page continues the process for the idle & choke, but the idle adjustment is pretty intuitive as I remember, at least on my old GX240. Perhaps @orangputeh or someone else could post the rest of the procedure here. I only have that HS928 Max Speed page.

Here's what I found re: setting the idle:

HS928 Carburetor adjustment
1. Start the engine and allow it to warm up to normal operating temperature.
2. With the engine idling, turn the pilot screw in or out to the setting that produces the highest idle rpm.
The correct setting will usually be: 2 to 2 l/2 turns out; CAUTION: Do not tighten the pilot screw against its seat; this will damage the. pilot screw or seat.










3. After the pilot screw is correctly adjusted, turn the throttle stop screw to obtain the standard idle speed: 2,000-2,200 rpm.


----------



## tabora

IsThisRight said:


> I actually read *here* with a heavy snow load you should keep it at a lower throttle and go slow





Rooskie said:


> I am very surprised to read that. Right from the factory.


That's a mistake in that document. The writer meant the transmission speed lever and mistakenly wrote throttle.


----------



## IsThisRight

tabora said:


> I'd strongly recommend getting the HS928 shop manual (not available as a complete PDF online). The settings for the throttle are specific to the machine, not the engine. In the case of the HS928, you're powering a light so the minimum idle RPM of 2,000 to 2,200 is necessary to make sufficient voltage as well as supporting engaging the augers without stalling.
> 
> The attachment in post #881 covers step 1, the max speed. The following shop manual page continues the process for the idle & choke, but the idle adjustment is pretty intuitive as I remember, at least on my old GX240. Perhaps @orangputeh or someone else could post the rest of the procedure here. I only have that HS928 Max Speed page.
> 
> Here's what I found re: setting the idle:
> 
> HS928 Carburetor adjustment
> 1. Start the engine and allow it to warm up to normal operating temperature.
> 2. With the engine idling, turn the pilot screw in or out to the setting that produces the highest idle rpm.
> The correct setting will usually be: 2 to 2 l/2 turns out; CAUTION: Do not tighten the pilot screw against its seat; this will damage the. pilot screw or seat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. After the pilot screw is correctly adjusted, turn the throttle stop screw to obtain the standard idle speed: 2,000-2,200 rpm.


@tabora , excellent! I was wondering what that screw (pilot) was for. 

With the engine off, I'll see what it's at first for reference\baseline, then probably start with 2-2.5 turns out, start the engine, turn the pilot until I get the highest RPMs, then hit the throttle stop screw (I believe that's the bigger plastic black screw just above the pilot screw in the pic you just sent that I've been using)
Depending on how things go, I may also pick up the shop manual as you suggested, I think I found it as Part #: 6176861E8 - *HS624 HS724 HS828 HS928 HS1132 Snow Blower Shop Manual*


----------



## harry398

tabora said:


> Your idle should be down around 2,200. Max should be around 3,700.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, jets should have the number on them, like this #80:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't drill a Honda jet, get the correct size one. Drilling them changes the geometry of the venturi and can lead to them spitting gas rather than atomizing it.



Tabora is correct.
this is absolutely correct. you can drill whatever you want, but a larger hole isnt always meaning more flow. There is more to it than just the hole size, there is a bevel there. best to buy a sized jet.
talk to any drag racer if you think I am wrong.


tabora said:


> Your idle should be down around 2,200. Max should be around 3,700.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, jets should have the number on them, like this #80:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Don't drill a Honda jet, get the correct size one. Drilling them changes the geometry of the venturi and can lead to them spitting gas rather than atomizing it.*



Tabora is 100% correct about this. if you look at the inside of a jet, there is a bevel there. 
If you think this is incorrect, go to a drag race, ask a racer why he uses holley jets sized........

this was a great thread. I am actually surprised with all this.......Holley carbs go rich as rpm increases, as most.....

seems a 108-110 is working for most in a gx390 snowblower......yet I have 2 honda gx390 carbs i just pulled apart with 92 jets....and a 420cc engine with a 95 jet.

also explains ALOT of landscapers with gx390 on leaf blowers blowing head gaskets........


----------



## harry398

jrom said:


> Good idea jt.
> 
> orangputeh, you can get an OEM stock jet at the usual suspects like boats.net https://tinyurl.com/ya5vcsls ($3.57), PartsPak.com StackPath ($4.63), hondapartsnation.com Honda Power Equipment 99101-ZH8-1020 - JET, MAIN (#102) : CyclePartsNation Honda Parts Nation ($4.43), jackssmallengines.com ($5.27).
> 
> I found this supplier for aftermarket jets that has a chart that may be accurate (would jtclays and northeast verify this?) Replacements jets for about $2.95:
> 
> Main Carburetor Jet for Honda, Clone, or Predator Engines - Select Your Size | RLV50** | RLV RLV5008 | BMI Karts And Parts
> 
> Main Carburetor Jet for Honda, Clone, or Predator Engines - Select Your Size | RLV50** | RLV RLV5008 | BMI Karts and Motorocycle Parts
> 
> Carburetor main jet used on the Honda GX160, GX200, Predator 212cc, GX340, GX390, Predator 420cc, and many other clone 6.5 HP 196cc engines.
> 
> FYI: Stock jets on GX200s are .028.
> FYI: Stock jets on GX390s are .036-.038.
> Use a larger opening jet if you're running lean and a smaller one if you're running rich.
> 
> Options
> SKU Size Number
> RLV5010 .032 #81
> RLV5011 .034 #86
> RLV5008 .035 #88
> RLV5012 .036 #91
> RLV5009 .037 #93
> RLV5013 .038 #96
> RLV5014 .039 #99
> RLV5015 .040 #101
> RLV5016 .041 #104
> RLV5017 .042 #107
> RLV5018 .043 #109
> RLV5019 .044 #112
> RLV5020 .045 #114
> RLV5021 .046 #117



*exactly* what I found......92 jets in a gx390 carbs .. these are not gx390 snow blower engines....but just adding to the info posted. 

a 420cc pressure washer engine....95 jet. 

i have a 440 cc clone ill be pulling the jet to have a look too. those are hard to start. 

I will have to open the ax306 on the 28 SHO and see that too.....

overall, I generally find if the carb is lean--surging--its the pilot jet that is dirty. Interesting.


----------



## drmerdp

Winter engines need more jet then other engines. Lawn and garden tools like pressure washers can get away with leaner fueling due to higher ambient temps.


----------



## ChrisJ

I tried an adjustable jet in my predator 420 last night and it worked good except leaking fuel where the needle passes through the nut so I gave up on that and ordered a set of jets for it.
*
The stock jet oddly enough is a #101 which I believe is a 0.040".* It runs pretty good but without the filter it was definitely too lean. The adjustable jet fixed that easily but created the other issue. I was only running it on the bench but even then I can tell it wants a little more fuel.

I think I've got everything from 041-046 coming.


----------



## orangputeh

ChrisJ said:


> I tried an adjustable jet in my predator 420 last night and it worked good except leaking fuel where the needle passes through the nut so I gave up on that and ordered a set of jets for it.
> 
> *The stock jet oddly enough is a #101 which I believe is a 0.040".* It runs pretty good but without the filter it was definitely too lean. The adjustable jet fixed that easily but created the other issue. I was only running it on the bench but even then I can tell it wants a little more fuel.
> 
> I think I've got everything from 041-046 coming.


do you have a link to these adjustable jets? or how I find? would they work on Honda carbs? 
I thought Predators are just Honda clones.


----------



## ChrisJ

orangputeh said:


> do you have a link to these adjustable jets? or how I find? would they work on Honda carbs?
> I thought Predators are just Honda clones.



Here's the one I bought, but I wouldn't recommend it.









Adjustable High Speed Needle Predator, Honda, Kohler, Powermore, Briggs&Stratton | eBay


This item is custom made to use as an adjustable carburetor high speed needle assembly to adjust fuel mixture on harbor freight Predator OHV engines as well as Honda OHV/OHC engines, Kohler OHV engines, the newer Toro Snow Blower OHV engines, the newer Briggs & Stratton OHV engines, LCT OHV...



www.ebay.com





To me, it's oring just sits sandwiched between the nut and washer without a counter bore to hold it tight to the screw makes it useless. Mine certainly leaks and I saw at least one other review that said the same thing.

And after thinking about it more the oring is also right on the threads so fuel can just follow the thread groove.



Maybe it's just a dumb user error on my part but I have no idea how it could be.


----------



## orangputeh

ChrisJ said:


> Here's the one I bought, but I wouldn't recommend it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adjustable High Speed Needle Predator, Honda, Kohler, Powermore, Briggs&Stratton | eBay
> 
> 
> This item is custom made to use as an adjustable carburetor high speed needle assembly to adjust fuel mixture on harbor freight Predator OHV engines as well as Honda OHV/OHC engines, Kohler OHV engines, the newer Toro Snow Blower OHV engines, the newer Briggs & Stratton OHV engines, LCT OHV...
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me, it's oring just sits sandwiched between the nut and washer without a counter bore to hold it tight to the screw makes it useless. Mine certainly leaks and I saw at least one other review that said the same thing.
> 
> And after thinking about it more the oring is also right on the threads so fuel can just follow the thread groove.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just a dumb user error on my part but I have no idea how it could be.


HOLY MACKEREL........the price! There must be a way to McIver it. I know other brand blowers use adjustable jets. wonder how they handle this without leaking gas.

All but one of the reviews were positive.


----------



## ChrisJ

orangputeh said:


> HOLY MACKEREL........the price! There must be a way to McIver it. I know other brand blowers use adjustable jets. wonder how they handle this without leaking gas.


I just looked at a spare hmsk Chinese carb I have and it's basically the same design except the oring is in a pocket and rides against a smooth shoulder on the screw not on threads.

I'm really curious why a Predator 420 comes with an 040 jet when it appears the equivalent Honda summer engine comes with smaller. I realize the 420 is a bigger engine but they seem to perform similar.

Makes me wonder if I'm going to find the 042 isn't quite enough.


----------



## tabora

ChrisJ said:


> I'm really curious why a Predator 420 comes with an 040 jet when it appears the equivalent Honda summer engine comes with smaller. I realize the 420 is a bigger engine but they seem to perform similar.


A .040" jet is about a #102. That was the former stock jet for the HSS1332A GX390 snow engine (now the #110). Summer engines use leaner jetting due to the higher temperatures. Of course, jetting also depends on altitude...


----------



## ChrisJ

tabora said:


> A .040" jet is about a #102. That was the former stock jet for the HSS1332A GX390 snow engine (now the #110). Summer engines use leaner jetting due to the higher temperatures. Of course, jetting also depends on altitude...


That I understand, but the Predator is a summer engine no? So why the bigger jet than a stock summer Honda? This is a very recent engine, charcoal canister and all.

Basically, should I start with an 042 or go bigger?
The 040 seemed ok but a hair lean in a warm shop with the air filter on. It's going to be very different without the air filter when it's 10 degrees out.

I'm at about 500' elevation.


----------



## drmerdp

I’ve had a #110 on my gx390 for a few years now. I’m thinking the #112 is a better fit now that have about 30 hours on the machine.


----------



## ChrisJ

tabora said:


> A .040" jet is about a #102. That was the former stock jet for the HSS1332A GX390 snow engine (now the #110). Summer engines use leaner jetting due to the higher temperatures. Of course, jetting also depends on altitude...


So the stock jet on a new GX390 snowblower is #102.
What were they using on older GX390 equipped blowers before they went too lean? 



On a side note, I've seen a lot of mention of drilling jets.
I wouldn't even consider it as drills do not produce clean or round holes, for that you need a reamer and it really can't be done by hand as you want to ream perfectly straight. If you look at a drilled hole closely, it's pretty much trashed for anything that needs precision like a jet.

I'd always recommend buying properly sized jets.


----------



## harry398

ChrisJ said:


> So the stock jet on a new GX390 snowblower is #102.
> What were they using on older GX390 equipped blowers before they went too lean?
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note, I've seen a lot of mention of drilling jets.
> I wouldn't even consider it as drills do not produce clean or round holes, for that you need a reamer and it really can't be done by hand as you want to ream perfectly straight. If you look at a drilled hole closely, it's pretty much trashed for anything that needs precision like a jet.
> 
> I'd always recommend buying properly sized jets.


ive been inspecting more jets. another gx390 off another pressure washer....oem carb- untouched.....105 jet. super easy to start. not a hint of lean misfire.
another unit......not marked, aftermarket carb.....also seems to be very similar sized.....

another gx390 oem carb had a 92 jet.

i have a china clone 440cc......that has a 100 jet in it...and its quite hard to start, needs choke everytime.

draw your own conclusions.....

next time I pull off my carb on the ariens ax306...ill inspect that. that thing runs like a top, 1/2 a pull already running.......


----------



## ChrisJ

harry398 said:


> ive been inspecting more jets. another gx390 off another pressure washer....oem carb- untouched.....105 jet. super easy to start. not a hint of lean misfire.
> another unit......not marked, aftermarket carb.....also seems to be very similar sized.....
> 
> another gx390 oem carb had a 92 jet.
> 
> i have a china clone 440cc......that has a 100 jet in it...and its quite hard to start, needs choke everytime.
> 
> draw your own conclusions.....
> 
> next time I pull off my carb on the ariens ax306...ill inspect that. that thing runs like a top, 1/2 a pull already running.......



To me, I expect a properly jetted carb to need at least partial choke to start cold. If it was just shut off I'd expect it to start without it.

My Predator 420 has a #101 and will not start without choke even hot.

I had considered getting some pin gauges to check the jet to see if it's really 1.01mm.


----------



## harry398

ChrisJ said:


> To me, I expect a properly jetted carb to need at least partial choke to start cold. If it was just shut off I'd expect it to start without it.
> 
> My Predator 420 has a #101 and will not start without choke even hot.
> 
> I had considered getting some pin gauges to check the jet to see if it's really 1.01mm.



cold? yea.....choke.
warm--hot....should not.

I have a 420cc here too...that had a 95 jet. just bought me an assortment of jets...ill be playing....

just ran the Little wonder 13hp...its 45f.....105 jet. runs like a thief in the night.


----------



## ChrisJ

harry398 said:


> cold? yea.....choke.
> warm--hot....should not.
> 
> I have a 420cc here too...that had a 95 jet. just bought me an assortment of jets...ill be playing....
> 
> just ran the Little wonder 13hp...its 45f.....105 jet. runs like a thief in the night.


105 jet with or without an air filter?


----------



## harry398

with


----------



## tabora

ChrisJ said:


> So the stock jet on a new GX390 snowblower is #102.


No, that's not what I said. Older machines had the #102 as stock. It's now a #110, same as what many of us upgraded ours to, effective with the /A rev at serial number SAFA-2000001. They also closed up the pilot jet screw a bit to compensate. I've kept mine at 2 turns out.


----------



## ChrisJ

tabora said:


> No, that's not what I said. Older machines had the #102 as stock. It's now a #110, same as what many of us upgraded ours to, effective with the /A rev at serial number SAFA-2000001. They also closed up the pilot jet screw a bit to compensate. I've kept mine at 2 turns out.


Ahh. . I'm sorry I misunderstood.


----------



## ChrisJ

tabora said:


> No, that's not what I said. Older machines had the #102 as stock. It's now a #110, same as what many of us upgraded ours to, effective with the /A rev at serial number SAFA-2000001. They also closed up the pilot jet screw a bit to compensate. I've kept mine at 2 turns out.



tabora,
Any idea if Honda uses a different pilot jet in their cold weather machines, or if it's the same exact one used in all of the GX390s etc?


----------



## tabora

ChrisJ said:


> tabora,
> Any idea if Honda uses a different pilot jet in their cold weather machines, or if it's the same exact one used in all of the GX390s etc?


For the HSS1332 / GX390 the Pilot Jet is: 

99204-ZE0-0450JET SET, PILOT (#45)
For the GX390 on an EB7000 generator, for example, it would be a #40...


----------



## ksnowblow

*Help at elevation *

I'm at 6150 feet in elevation and I have a hss724a that was constantly bogging down with wet snow. It would constantly clog in the chute and would come to a stop. I found this snowblower forum from google searching for answers, and I found others with my issue. 

I was able to get the new chute design replaced from honda under warranty. While it was there, I talked with service about getting a larger jet put in and provided them the link to this long rejetting thread. They asked where I lived, and gave them my address and altitude. They said they'd take care of it for like $25 in parts/labor and give it some additional power with a new jet while they did the chute swap. I said that's fine and had them do it. 

I fired it up these last few days while we had snow, and the thing is bogging down worse than before with small amounts of snow. Even "dry" snow seems to choke it out and make the thing bog. It just sounds like the engine is struggling. I pulled up the invoice sheet and I see they went down to a 72 jet from the 75 factory. I see honda says to do that for certain altitudes, but clearly this did not help me. 

I see another user listed the various jets for the hss724a, and it has a 78 above the factory 75, but maybe that won't help with my altitude? Do you think I should just go back to the 75, or buy both a 75 and a 78 and see what happens at this point? I haven't adjusted anything with the throttle from factory, but I do own a throttle gauge that I've used to adjust my honda mower. I could toss it on the blower to see what it's running at. 

I appreciate any input others may have at altitude


----------



## tabora

ksnowblow said:


> Do you think I should just go back to the 75, or buy both a 75 and a 78 and see what happens at this point?


Yes, I would think a #78 (or larger) is the right direction if a #75 was bogging and a #72 is worse. Maybe try first a #78 & then a #80 if needed?


----------



## Caper63

I moved from a #75 to a #78 on my HSS724 just recently and it runs better, but I am at 200'.

I installed an hour meter/tach this week. Running 3720 RPM at full throttle with no load. Going to bump that up to 3850. The throttle screw is not easily accessed. Will pull off air intake cover this week and bump the RPMs up. No real snow yet on the East Coast.

I would be very interested in your results at #78 at your altitude. I am tempted to try the #80.


----------



## ChrisJ

Caper63 said:


> I moved from a #75 to a #78 on my HSS724 just recently and it runs better, but I am at 200'.
> 
> I installed an hour meter/tach this week. Running 3720 RPM at full throttle with no load. Going to bump that up to 3850. The throttle screw is not easily accessed. Will pull off air intake cover this week and bump the RPMs up. No real snow yet on the East Coast.
> 
> I would be very interested in your results at #78 at your altitude. I am tempted to try the #80.


Why are you increasing the rpm?


----------



## tabora

Caper63 said:


> Going to bump that up to 3850.


Beware getting close to 4K RPM. The voltage for the LED light will go over-limit and will nuke your lamp assembly. There's actually a warning in the shop manual about that.


----------



## Caper63

I couldn't seem to find the RPM for the HSS724 in the owners manual. I don't have a shop manual *yet.*

I was able to find online a Honda_ "Dealer Instructions for Set-Up and Pre-Delivery Service" Manual_ for the HS Series. It listed the set-up RPMs as follows:

_*Use a tachometer to check the maximum governed rpm with*_
*the throttle lever in the FAST position and auger clutch lever*
_*disengaged.*_

MODELMAXIMUM RPMHS6243,800 ± 150 rpmHS7243,850 ± 150 rpmHS828
HS928
HS11323,600 ± 150 rpm

I was assuming the HSS724 is the same as the HS724. Appreciate any intel, particularly if anyone has a shop manual.


----------



## maxcbrdriver

The HSS724 service manual states that the maximum engine speed at no load is 3800 +0/-150. Idle speed is 2100 +/- 150. Be mindful of the range notation difference.


----------



## ChrisJ

Sounds to me like you're well within tolerance already so that's good.


----------



## Caper63

maxcbrdriver said:


> The HSS724 service manual states that the maximum engine speed at no load is 3800 +0/-150. Idle speed is 2100 +/- 150. Be mindful of the range notation difference.



This is most helpful. Is is worth bumping up from 3720 to 3800 RPM? I appreciate that it is within range, but I recollect others noting that a 100 RPM gain makes a difference.

I can disconnect LED while making the adjustment.


----------



## Tseg

maxcbrdriver said:


> The HSS724 service manual states that the maximum engine speed at no load is 3800 +0/-150. Idle speed is 2100 +/- 150. Be mindful of the range notation difference.


My HSS724 manual, the same page, lists both 3800 and 3850 (+/- 150) I should take a picture. Anyway, when new last year it both took multiple cranks to start and surged until warm. I put in a #80 jet in the off-season at my 700 ft. altitude. It now easily starts on first crank. I have to move it out of full choke within seconds or it will stall. At half choke it does push out some grey smoke, but once started I can move immediately to low idle with no issue. It purrs like a kitten at both high and low idle now with no smoke whatsoever and no surging. My tach did go to 3850. I did adjust the cables slightly and brought full throttle down to about 3830… leaving it there for now. My idle screw is nearly all the way out but idle is at 2200. Close enough for me. Unfortunately, no plowable snow yet for me this year and no artic temps yet. I look forward to trying to start in really cold weather to see the impact. I have Stabil in my Midwest ethanol fuel, and battery on the Optimate 4. I start and run the engine for about 5 minutes each weekend. I should probably check the plugs to see if current setup is too rich. I’ve been debating whether the #78 is more ideal? I had bought that as well at the same time. For now, I’ll leave as is. Looking forward to the first big snow. Worst winter I’ve ever seen for snow in 20 years where I’m at (go figure). All the snow hitting about 2 hours north of here.


----------



## Toro-8-2-4

Keep in mind when you go to winter use you need a larger jet to adjust for the more oxygen rich air. So the stock size may be intended for summer use. The size of the carb throat is a factor too. I have found with aftermarket carbs the throat diameter can be a bit larger and the jet needs to be adjusted to keep it from surging. Good Luck!!!!


----------



## harry398

I will add in here..as a comparison...from the Ariens 306cc I found a 102 jet in the carb, which equates to .041 hole.. It had a slight misfire-fart at full throttle at 40f no load.

I went to a 0.042 hole size....which equates to around 105 ish....and its smooth as glass @3820 rpm. 

kinda surprised at the jet size, when I read how the Hondas are quite a bit less. 

clone carb jets are the same as Honda jets, in case anyone is wondering..at least what I have dealt with. Hope this helps someone.


----------



## Toro-8-2-4

northeast said:


> I opened it up to .041 and it’s a completely different machine. It is exactly what it needs. I said it was lazy now it’s a beast, open it up you will not be disappointed. You will not even recognize it. You guys getting the picture here. Lol
> 
> I will run it this way for a bit but may go to .043 worse case scenario is I buy a new jet and go back to .041 but I have a feeling it wants it.


Not only should you judge it by your perception of increased power and smoothness but also by the color of the spark plug. if the mixture is too rich it will start to look too black and sooty. Most have an opinoion of running an air cooled engine slightly rich because it runs cooler.


----------



## ksnowblow

ksnowblow said:


> *Help at elevation *
> [snip]
> I appreciate any input others may have at altitude





tabora said:


> Yes, I would think a #78 (or larger) is the right direction if a #75 was bogging and a #72 is worse. Maybe try first a #78 & then a #80 if needed?


 I picked up both a #78 and an #80 and installed the #78 tonight to start with. 


Caper63 said:


> I moved from a #75 to a #78 on my HSS724 just recently and it runs better, but I am at 200'.
> I would be very interested in your results at #78 at your altitude. I am tempted to try the #80.


I just installed the #78 tonight and I cannot get over the difference in the way the engine sounds coming from the #72 honda installed. I didn't have any snow to clear, but the motor sounds like I went from 2hp to 50hp. I joke, but the machine sounds like it's now awake and alive at idle. I ran the auger with the throttle on high and I'm blown away. I'm actually anticipating the next snow (maybe tuesday) so I can actually test it under load. 

I also picked up an impeller kit and installed that as well. I hope it'll help with discharging wet slop and slush on warmer days. 

I'll update more when we have our next snow.


----------



## Caper63

I anticipate you will find quite a difference with the combined jet upgrade and the impeller kit.

As noted above, I bumped up to the #78 from a #75, but I am at sea level. If a #78 is working well for you a 6150', I am thinking I need to try a #80. Then figure out the jet on my HS720.

Please do update us. Perhaps even a snow throwing video. We like pictures (video even more).


----------



## harry398

I think you got that backwards.

At elevation, you need a leaner jet due to less oxygen or..less air density.


----------



## Caper63

harry398 said:


> I think you got that backwards.
> 
> At elevation, you need a leaner jet due to less oxygen or..less air density.


Except he was having problems with it running too lean.


----------



## ksnowblow

harry398 said:


> I think you got that backwards.
> 
> At elevation, you need a leaner jet due to less oxygen or..less air density.


it had a factory #75 in it, and then honda put a #72 in it due to my elevation. It ran worse when they changed it. I could honestly clear maybe 2-3" of snow depth at roughly up to 75% of full walking speed adjustment before it would want to bog down.


----------



## harry398

ksnowblow said:


> it had a factory #75 in it, and then honda put a #72 in it due to my elevation. It ran worse when they changed it. I could honestly clear maybe 2-3" of snow depth at roughly up to 75% of full walking speed adjustment before it would want to bog down.


you misunderstood my point.

I am not saying it was jetted correct for elevation, only that engines require less fuel in elevation.

im not saying any engine is optimized for power from the factory.


----------



## NOS

I say this a lot:

Start with the low side jet get a decent clean idle then move onto the high side.
The high side does not flow fuel at low speeds ( to any great degree )
The low side does flow enough fuel at high speed to make jetting peculiar shall we say...

So get low side first them tune the high for proper operation.
There are two styles of clone jet that are not interchangeable.
I bring this up often too. ( make sure your sets match or you get crazy results ).

Chinese jets and carbs tend to flow less well than OEM Japanese parts.
Do not think you can compare one to another all the time.
Differences in machining and finish make a huge difference in flow.

This tool really works.


----------



## ssls6

I'm at 9600 feet. My 1332 came with a 102 jet and 2.5 turns out of the pilot. My plug showed a rich condition so I jetted down to a 100 jet and left the pilot alone. Seems to do OK.


----------



## NOS

If your low side is lean ( and it probably is ) and your high side is lean ( and you have been working at that ) then adjusting the high side only will cause a miss match in the fuel curve at certain RPM ranges.
It might not bother you if you are running full out all the time.
It might manifest as slightly rich at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle but be just fine at full speed full power.

The air screw on these Chinese engines are almost useless.
All they can do is let a little more air into lean things further.
I never came across a clone with enough fuel at low side.

Its an EPA thing.
For best performance you want a little excess fuel on the low side for decent throttle response.
EPA has said they want the carbs set to best fuel mixture for operation.

All kinds of things done in the name of clean.
If you remember back to the cars of the 70s you will get that same feeling about today's engines.
For the same reasons....

Timing could be advanced a little...
But its not because of NOX limits
Mixtures are as lean as possible to reduce CO and HC.
This leads to a loss of power and sometimes sluggish response to the governor and hunting


----------



## orangputeh

ChrisJ said:


> So the stock jet on a new GX390 snowblower is #102.
> What were they using on older GX390 equipped blowers before they went too lean?
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note, I've seen a lot of mention of drilling jets.
> I wouldn't even consider it as drills do not produce clean or round holes, for that you need a reamer and it really can't be done by hand as you want to ream perfectly straight. If you look at a drilled hole closely, it's pretty much trashed for anything that needs precision like a jet.
> 
> I'd always recommend buying properly sized jets.


yup. this thread has caused more problems than it has solved.

people drilling out jets, trying to do it themselves with the wrong size screwdrivers, damaging brass jets, leaking carbs , destroying carbs ,installing the wrong jet ..........

most of it depends on elevation. or on the new Honda's a lean jet.

Have a shop do it for a couple bucks.


----------



## NOS

orangputeh said:


> people drilling out jets, trying to do it themselves with the wrong size screwdrivers, damaging brass jets, leaking carbs , destroying carbs ,installing the wrong jet ..........


The learning curve is steep.
Maybe the best advice is not to do it at all.
Take it to the dealer...

Buy some jet blocks and prescision tools for a single time job is more expensive than paying someone to do it for you.
You can open up a jet one size or two with a pin vice but you need to be careful.
Surface finish effects flow as said before. ( if you have a prescision drill press hold the jet in the chuck and hold the bit in a squaured up machinist vice, you can make a very nice straight clean hole like that )

Sometimes a professional is not much help, and maybeeven gives you poor advice.
This lady is going to show you know how to work on a Walbro carb...
She does not have a pop off gauge or shims and springs.
No idea what to set up the carb before you install and try to use it.
I wonder how many followers she has?


----------



## Toro-8-2-4

I am not going to watch that video. It takes a lot of skill and knowledge to optimize the fixed jet carbs. I will just add, adjustable main jet carbs solve most of these issues.


----------



## tabora

NOS said:


> The learning curve is steep.


Not really. The info in this thread and in the Repository is all you need to know to re-jet a Honda HSS carburetor in minutes. This video is particularly helpful:


----------



## NOS

Ya your right keep doing what your doing.

If the low side jet, the E-tube and air screw did nothing why did they bother to design these parts into the carb.
Other people make simple cave man carbs that just used one jet?

Why bother with a low side at all if it does nothing.


----------



## ChrisJ

NOS said:


> Ya your right keep doing what your doing.
> 
> If the low side jet, the E-tube and air screw did nothing why did they bother to design these parts into the carb.
> Other people make simple cave man carbs that just used one jet?
> 
> Why bother with a low side at all if it does nothing.


They do a lot.
You're ignoring the fact these are already running engines that come jetted from the factory.

A slightly richer main jet could very likely be all they need. If even that.


You're talking like guys are mounting an aftermarket carb on a modified engine. They're not.


----------



## NOS

ChrisJ said:


> They do a lot.
> You're ignoring the fact these are already running engines that come jetted from the factory.
> 
> A slightly richer main jet could very likely be all they need. If even that.
> 
> 
> You're talking like guys are mounting an aftermarket carb on a modified engine. They're not.


I struck some kind of nerve here and no one wants to believe me when I explain the low side effects the fuel ratio at all RPM and load ranges.
Its always contributing fuel!
Its a more precise way to set the carb up if you start with the low side.
You might not need as large a jet for the high side and if you want to tinker.
Sometimes an E-tube will change will put enough extra vac on the main jet to flow the extra fuel you need for both top end and mid range.

Just adding a bigger main only puts more fuel at the top.
at lower flow level there may now be an excess of fuel and it does not help at lower flow level at all.
I don't understand why there is so much resistance to the idea of more than one thing to adjust.
A lot of people have spent a lot of time on dyno and track learning this.

A lot more people are perfectly happy to let an engine spit and hunt because its too lean than do something about it.

Just try it....
Its easy to say no not interested.
Its not difficult to buy some jets and tinker and learn how the fuel flows in these carbs and make it perfect.
If all you want is good enough thats fine I get it....
But try these tips it won't harm anything and you might find you are happier than you were before.

Lots of people tinker for good reasons...
I knew EC Birt ( rip died on an operating table during back surgery, what a loss he was my mentor )
He special ordered these 304 bodies with only pilot holes drilled so we could literally make them do what ever we wanted.
They will not work until you start drilling and you better know what you are doing because its a lot harder to make holes smaller than bigger.


Tillotson HL-304WX Carburetor & Parts - EC Carburetors


Your average shade tree mechanic will never deal with parts like these.
But you can learn so much about fuel flow by building your own stuff, experimenting and tuning.


----------



## tabora

NOS said:


> no one wants to believe me when I explain the low side effects the fuel ratio at all RPM and load ranges.


Actually, we all know that very well. You do understand that this is a Honda thread, right? The carburetors have a pilot jet that can be changed out, but usually doesn't need to be; it has an adjustable pilot jet needle screw. For example, when Honda upped the HSS1332 GX390's stock main jet from #102 to #110, they also changed the Pilot Jet Screw position from 2 turns out to only 1-1/4 turns out to compensate.


----------



## NOS

tabora said:


> Actually, we all know that very well. You do understand that this is a Honda thread, right?


Yes I was under the impression Honda engines also followed the normal laws of physics.

Done here...

Just for laughs can you tell me what that screw does?
Let me be very specific in my question.
What does turning it in do?


----------



## Toro-8-2-4

The go cart guys will use different emulsion tubes and main jets. Not to mention intakes and exhausts. I dont see them messing with the low speed jet. I am not an expert or someone who frequents those board much. But when I do, I do not see any talk about the low speed jet. I know you can buy larger low speed fixed jets. So maybe some people do. But it seems far from the focus. Maybe becuse they run them as fast as they can go and are not too interested in the idle speed. Most people only run their snow blowers on high and only throtthle down when they pause to do something else. 
I have purchased after market carbs and had to mess with them to get them to work right because they are not exact replicas of what it is replacing. To say it is simple ignores murphy's law. You neet to have some understanding of physics and how carbs work for you start changing things. Sometimes it is simple and sometimes it is not simple.

If you have a new Honda and you have stock jet that is surging. It should be simple to try a few larger jets and optimize the mixture or get it close enough. Preverably get an adjust able jet and be done. I agree, you dont have to understand alot if all you need to do is what is in that instructional video above. You can just change parts and gauge it by the sound of the engine.and done.


----------



## NOS

One hour later.....

Its an air screw.
All it does is add air if you screw it out and make things leaner.
How are you even adjusting that?
Most don't even have a slot for a blade.
A few have a black cap on there to prevent you from playing with it and making things worse that was 15 years ago and I have not seen one with a slot in long time


----------



## NOS

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> f you have a new Honda and you have stock jet that is surging.


OK be specific here now.
Unloaded its just sitting there hunting speeding up slowing down?
Or doing this until you have a load on?
That's a lean low side issue.
You can tell if you choke it a little and the hunt goes away. ( or feed it some gas from a propane torch to richen it up )

Hunting can also be caused by a governor not adjust properly ( I will post some detail on how to fix that shortly )

High side hunting can happen too but your load must decrease with the engine RPM so the machine does not stall out completely from being too lean.
That's hard to do on a snownblower.

Here's an Onan linkage that shows the speed and sensitivity adjustments.
Its the same for all governors but Onan makes it easier to see.


----------



## tabora

NOS said:


> One hour later.....
> Its an air screw.


I was busy watching the Patriots...

Actually, it's a Pilot *Mixture* volume screw (#1 below)... After the mixing occurs at the Pilot Jet #2.


----------



## NOS

The pilot jet controls the amount of fuel its the wet bit.
All that screw does is meter a tiny bit of extra air/fuel from the metering chamber....
You selectively can pass more mixture from one pick off port to another, but this does not materialy effect fuel mixture because you can't get more fuel.
Not enough to tell you passed a fart in the wind.
Follow the carb circuitry from the wet side of the jet into the mixing chamber.
The jet meters the amount of fuel you have and that screw can't change it.
Look into the bore back side of the carb you can see its little brass tip.


----------



## ChrisJ

Except for the fact you're pulling most of the air around the butterfly so opening the screw results in a richer mixture.

That screw adjusts the idle mixture not the idle speed.


----------



## NOS

ChrisJ said:


> Except for the fact you're pulling most of the air around the butterfly so opening the screw results in a richer mixture.


Its a very tiny pick off.
Look at one...Your restricted from making much difference there is only so much fuel available and you are selectively moving it from the front pick off to the very most rear.

Try this take a jet from a lawnmower or GX160 and put that in there and see how much difference it makes.
Take a bigger one from a 212 or 223 and try that. more fuel...
The pick offs just don't pass enough volume to make a material difference thats is why have a jet.
Most engine don't even have a slot to let you turn that.


----------



## ssls6

NOS said:


> What does turning it in do?


There is a bypass air circuit (bypasses the throttle plate) that the pilot bleeds fuel into. When you turn it in, you lower the fuel added to the air bypass. So to your question, it leans out the pilot fuel-air mixture. You normally adjust this first for best idle/vacuum then move onto the main jet. In my particular case, I don't mind having my pilot too rich for my high elevation since it makes starting easy in cold weather and I don't spend much time at idle. My goal was not to be lean at WOT and make more power at my elevation. That meant, in my case, to drop my main jet down one size.

I would never recommend drilling out jets since they are cheap. You're not gonna hurt anything as long as you don't run an engine too lean. On the flip size, more fuel doesn't mean more power and too much fuel can wash down the cylinder walls leading to wear/carbon fouling.

There are a lot of resources out there to help reading spark plugs. After you've run your machine at WOT doing actual work, let it cool down and pull the plug to read it.

I made an error in my last post, I said 2.5 turns out on the pilot but meant 2.0 turns out.


----------



## ksnowblow

ssls6 said:


> I'm at 9600 feet. My 1332 came with a 102 jet and 2.5 turns out of the pilot. My plug showed a rich condition so I jetted down to a 100 jet and left the pilot alone. Seems to do OK.
> 
> View attachment 186350


can I ask how fast your machine is moving to clear that depth of snow? Like how far forward is your walk speed adjustment?


----------



## ssls6

ksnowblow said:


> can I ask how fast your machine is moving to clear that depth of snow? Like how far forward is your walk speed adjustment?


I was going pretty slow.


----------



## maxcbrdriver

I recently upgraded my HSS724 to a #78 jet as I'm within 100ft of sea level. With the machine warned up, full throttle RPM is at about 3700, so within spec, but my idle is close to 2800 and that's way above spec. I tried adjusting idle via the screw but it was already backed out all the way. Now I can certainly understand the importance of ensuring the full throttle RPM is within spec, I'm not so sure I understand the implications of a fast idle beyond fuel economy. Are there any? Can I just leave the engine as is?


----------



## Toro-8-2-4

maxcbrdriver said:


> I recently upgraded my HSS724 to a #78 jet as I'm within 100ft of sea level. With the machine warned up, full throttle RPM is at about 3700, so within spec, but my idle is close to 2800 and that's way above spec. I tried adjusting idle via the screw but it was already backed out all the way. Now I can certainly understand the importance of ensuring the full throttle RPM is within spec, I'm not so sure I understand the implications of a fast idle beyond fuel economy. Are there any? Can I just leave the engine as is?


Short answer is yes. You did not say if you went larger or smaller with your jet size. Just make sure you are not too lean. Check the plug apperance after running for a while to determine that.


----------



## tabora

maxcbrdriver said:


> I tried adjusting idle via the screw but it was already backed out all the way.


Setting the idle involves both the throttle and idle set screws on the carb (not the pilot jet screw) and the adjustment up at the throttle lever. I only have it for the HSS928/1332. Hopefully the HSS724 is similar, only with the integrated choke the lever clearances are likely different.


----------



## maxcbrdriver

I went from a 75 to the 78, so I'm not surprised idle increased. 

My first read through manual didn't show any adjustments at throttle lever. A second read though does see reference to a throttle stop screw when idle screw is insufficient, so I'll check that out next. Good to know though that if I can't fix it, it's fine too.

Thanks all for the help!


----------



## ChrisJ

For what its worth I just rebuilt a Tecumseh hmsk100 carb yesterday and had to adjust the main and idle jets.

From idle to about 2800 rpm the idle jet had a huge effect and main little. At 3600ish the main jet had a very noticeable effect but I still had to rev it to really get a feel of it's behavior.

That being said my predator 420 with the OEM pilot jet and richer main jet although I feel the pilot is a hair lean still runs far better than that Tecumseh.


----------



## 1132le

ChrisJ said:


> For what its worth I just rebuilt a Tecumseh hmsk100 carb yesterday and had to adjust the main and idle jets.
> 
> Full idle to I'd guess around 2800 rpm the idle jet had a huge effect and main little. At 3600ish the main jet had a very noticeable effect but I still had to rev it to really get a feel of it's behavior.
> 
> That being said my predator 420 with the OEM pilot jet and richer main jet although I feel the pilot is a hair lean still runs far better than that Tecumseh.





ChrisJ said:


> For what its worth I just rebuilt a Tecumseh hmsk100 carb yesterday and had to adjust the main and idle jets.
> 
> Full idle to I'd guess around 2800 rpm the idle jet had a huge effect and main little. At 3600ish the main jet had a very noticeable effect but I still had to rev it to really get a feel of it's behavior.
> 
> That being said my predator 420 with the OEM pilot jet and richer main jet although I feel the pilot is a hair lean still runs far better than that Tecumseh.


2800 idle ? wayyyyy to high


----------



## ChrisJ

1132le said:


> 2800 idle ? wayyyyy to high


Re-read what I typed.

Full idle to around 2800.

Obviously it's not idling at 2800


----------



## 1132le

1800 max idle


----------



## 1132le

2800 has no bearing on anything read it 5 times


----------



## ChrisJ




----------



## ChrisJ

There I edited it.
That's the best I can do to convey my thoughts.


----------



## 1132le

much better mr chris
these kart guys keeping taking about the low side
idle s useless 1 min cold start maybe before turning it up to full
if you require no choke at idle warm and it starts hot or cold 1 pull like my 414
wgaf about idle
get the main jet right your done
i chatted with someone who drilled out the jets
and 1 step up from where iam was to much
1 step below was still not enough
.46 is perfect
and the carting legend of sbf went on a tangent
so silly
your post just confirms it
but its still and adjustable carb just like his mini bike blurb silly
ty for editing
a greenhorn might set his idle @2800


----------



## davew

tabora said:


> The consensus appears to be #92 (if you're within 1000' of sea level).
> 
> GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
> GX270 HS928K0 (1998-2011?)
> # 88 (0.88 mm, .0346") | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
> # 90 (0.90 mm, .0354") | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
> # 92 (0.92 mm, .0362") | 99101-ZF5-0920 | HS828, HS928 (Stock)
> 
> GX270 HS928K1 (2011-2015)
> GX270 *HSS*928 (2015 >)
> # 80 (0.80 mm, .0307") | 99101-ZH8-0800 | HSS928A
> # 82 (0.82 mm, .0323") | 99101-ZH8-0820 | HSS928A
> # 85 (0.85 mm, .0335") | 99101-ZH8-0850 | HS928K1, HSS928A (Stock)


First time on here. Lost & confused. Both with the website and the main jet. Don't even know if i have a GX240 or a GX270, KO or K1, (shone above) let alone what main jet i can bump up to from original,. I just picked up a HS828 track machine snow blower, SZAK 2022043 for 400 dollars. I can't read any numbers on my main jet. Can you please point me in the right direction?


----------



## 1132le

gx240


----------



## tabora

davew said:


> Don't even know if i have a GX240 or a GX270, KO or K1, (shone above) let alone what main jet i can bump up to from original


Your GX240 came with the correct jet for low altitude up to 3000 feet or so. The smaller jets are for higher elevations.

GX240 HS828K0 (1991-1998)
# 88 | 0.88 mm .0346" | 99101-ZF5-0880 | HS828
# 90 | 0.90 mm .0354" | 99101-ZF5-0900 | HS828
# 92 | 0.92 mm .0362" | 99101-ZF5-0920 | HS828 (Stock)


----------



## orangputeh

tabora said:


> Not really. The info in this thread and in the Repository is all you need to know to re-jet a Honda HSS carburetor in minutes. This video is particularly helpful:


I usually advice people to have an expert do it if they are not too sure of their skills. Too many people want me to fix their screwups.


----------



## orangputeh

davew said:


> First time on here. Lost & confused. Both with the website and the main jet. Don't even know if i have a GX240 or a GX270, KO or K1, (shone above) let alone what main jet i can bump up to from original,. I just picked up a HS828 track machine snow blower, SZAK 2022043 for 400 dollars. I can't read any numbers on my main jet. Can you please point me in the right direction?


By the way that is a beautiful looking 828 considering it is anywhere from 24-31 years old.
Your machine would go for 1500-2000 around here. 
Really no need to rejet unless you are higher than 3-4000 feet.

I live at 5800 feet and the stock jets still work well in these. Maybe a little bit more carbon on plug but no big deal.
Over 6-7000 feet I would go down one of 2 sizes to really help the power.


----------



## Sparkland

I will be attempting the re-jetting process on my HSS724 this week.


----------



## tabora

Sparkland said:


> I will be attempting the re-jetting process on my HSS724 this week.


----------



## orangputeh

Sparkland said:


> I will be attempting the re-jetting process on my HSS724 this week.


why?
lack of power?
elevation?

what is your stock jet?
what are you changing to?


----------



## Sparkland

orangputeh said:


> why?
> lack of power?
> elevation?
> 
> what is your stock jet?
> what are you changing to?


I switched to the 78 because I live at 6,000 elevation and I have an HSS724. The chute mod needs to be done, but maybe down the road.


----------



## orangputeh

Sparkland said:


> I switched to the 78 because I live at 6,000 elevation and I have an HSS724. The chute mod needs to be done, but maybe down the road.


still wondering why you needed to change it.


----------



## ChrisJ

orangputeh said:


> still wondering why you needed to change it.



My parents live at 2000 feet and where I work is at around 100 feet. When I brought my dad's snowblower to where I work I needed to adjust the carb (older adjustable Tecumseh) because it was running a tad lean.

Also, when I had ATVs they tended to run a little on the rich side at 2000 feet but fine at 100 feet. 
Not horrible, but not to my liking, 1900 feet definitely made a very noticeable difference.


----------



## Sparkland

orangputeh said:


> still wondering why you needed to change it.


I wanted a little more power, due to chute clogging and engine bogging down. Others on this forum have done the same thing with great results. I moved from a #75 to a #78, did the chute mod, and the impeller mod.


----------



## orangputeh

Sparkland said:


> I wanted a little more power, due to chute clogging and engine bogging down. Others on this forum have done the same thing with great results. I moved from a #75 to a #78, did the chute mod, and the impeller mod.


well. did it work? a strange thing is I live at 6000 feet and our dealer told me the machines they sell have stock jets for sea level.

Very few people complain about power unless they are higher up, usually around 8000 feet they notice a power loss.This is amazing to me that the stock jets work fairly well at 6000 feet . They do run rich though. I have a boxful of about 150 plugs that are black from services.

so if it worked for you then good to know.

actually, i believe you go down in size as you go up in elevation. do not know off hand what the stock jet is on a 724. but he new hss models do have the wrong jets in them due to the fabulous EPA


----------



## orangputeh

duplicate post

i wish there was a delete option for a post after the fact.


----------



## ChrisJ

orangputeh said:


> well. did it work? a strange thing is I live at 6000 feet and our dealer told me the machines they sell have stock jets for sea level.
> 
> Very few people complain about power unless they are higher up, usually around 8000 feet they notice a power loss.This is amazing to me that the stock jets work fairly well at 6000 feet . They do run rich though. I have a boxful of about 150 plugs that are black from services.
> 
> so if it worked for you then good to know.
> 
> actually, i believe you go down in size as you go up in elevation. do not know off hand what the stock jet is on a 724. but he new hss models do have the wrong jets in them due to the fabulous EPA


I have to be honest.

Either it works well, or it runs rich.
It can't do both.

And a jet intended for sealevel which I've always found is too rich even at 2000 feet, I'm sure is very rich at 6000 feet.

I'm sure it works, but I'm betting there's a ton of room for improvement.
I'm not sure why the OP went richer.

There seems to be a trend on here that richer always means more power and it's very wrong. That's not directed at you @orangputeh
It's not even necessarily directed at @Sparkland maybe they have a specific situation that it did give an improvement. I have no idea.

I just know too rich is too rich and will give less power than when it's correct.


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