# Adding Ball Bearing Cups for the Auger Shafts



## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

Is it possible to add ball bearing cups for the auger shafts to rest in, instead of the sheet metal collars they have now?


I've got my 1994 MTD/Yard Machines snowthrower apart to replace a broken shear pin. 

Looking at it, I see the far ends of the auger shafts rest in the blower bucket on cheap plain metal cups. Even when greased there's a lot friction. 

It looks like I could add ball or roller bearings for the auger shafts to rest in, and hold the bearings in using existing bolt holes and a new piece of sheet metal.

Is this viable, or am I talking nonsense?


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I think the best thing is to remove the bearing cups, load up your machine, and stop at a local bearing store and see what they have that will fit. A good bearing store carries a ton of different bearings and whatever they don't have, they have similar for a look see and can order what you need, and possibly with no obligation to keep. You may want to consider roller bearings rather than ball bearings.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

Lawrence,
That's exactly what I'll do, but since everything's apart, I'm just going to take the auger bushings and see what the bearing store can match it with. It should be a huge improvement over the solid plastic bushings.

Here's a pic.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Sign, I didn't see the new post until now, my bad. Seeing your pics of the side caps/housing, I don't think you have any problems there. From the rust run off I'm guessing the augers haven't been lubed very regularly. Personally I've not see plastic bushings in as good a shape as yours are. I'd just sand down the shaft and lube it up good and go on about your business. The augers don't turn at a rate that really requires bearings. Most higher end manufacturers use bronze bushings in the ends, not roller bearings. Bearings would indeed be better, so if you want to tinker I understand. I do the same the same thing. Not cost effective, but it makes me smile:icon_smile_big: There probably is a another brand machine or similar that has the same caps with flats that uses a bronze bushing in place of the plastic ones. Since the plastic bushings have flats and can't rotate with the shaft, you might want to consider drilling through cap and one side of the plastic bushing and placing a grease zerk on the inboard side of the metal housing. Then you can get the end greased anytime you want. Just random thoughts.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

JTClays has a great idea, the auger does not spin fast enough to profit from bearings, and to install zerk fittings.

My idea was more radical but not as good. Drill out the cup to receive the bearings, drill a hole on the side to secure the bearing from spinning, but JT 's idea is better.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Sign216 said:


> Is it possible to add ball bearing cups for the auger shafts to rest in, instead of the sheet metal collars they have now?
> 
> 
> I've got my 1994 MTD/Yard Machines snowthrower apart to replace a broken shear pin.
> ...



Like this: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ance-forum/570-plastic-bushings-bearings.html


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

HCBPH said:


> Like this: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ance-forum/570-plastic-bushings-bearings.html


HCBPH, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm glad someone else recognized this as a viable upgrade. 

Lawrence and JTClays, 
This may not be cost effective for the manufacturer (planned obsolescence), but I plan on using this blower for another 10+ years, so it's reasonable for me. I like the blower because it's made with the old Tecumseh SnowKing side-valve engine, made in the USA. A dinosar.

I'm not sure how far I'll go with this improvement mid-winter. If I can't get it done easily now, I might put it off to summer.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

I did the switch from the OEM plastic bushings to aftermarket ball bearings. Whoa! Bearings are expensive! Fortunately I found bearings of the right hole pattern and shaft dia. on Ebay for cheap. They go to a 1953 Dodge. If it weren't for that find, then this projet would be dead. 

I had to mount the bearings with a little "play" using rubber washers and small dia. bolts, to allow the bearings to come to a vibration-free rest point. Then I could tighten. Just mounting them right off using the stock holes caused a bind, probably because the stock bushings are a little loose to begin with. 

Below is a pic of the new bearings and old (red) bushings.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Sign, no pics show up:wavetowel2:
Just guessing the problem you may have trying to align bearings on center is the auger shaft itself is not true (has inherent run out of the shaft itself and deflection from wear of the auger gear case).


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

How's this?


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Got 'em now. Those are stout for sure. Still, the system as a whole is not as precise as the bearings/housing you're adding. I like the idea, but wonder the if it's worth it given the lack of precision in the related parts. Not bashing, just thoughts:wavetowel2:


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

Jtclays,
I was thinking the same thing, not because of the imprecision of the original system, but because of the powerful torque needed to move snow. Any losses due to friction in the orig. bushings are small compared to what it takes to snowblow.

Still, there's a ball bearing in the bucket for the power shaft from the engine, so why not add two more like I did and fully support the system. It's an improvement. Not worth it unless you can get the bearings inexpensively. Retail prices for them are high.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

I think the impeller shaft gets bearings (not always, my old heavy duty JD had a bronze bushing) because it's running relatively fast at ~1100rpm and gear reduction from the auger worm sets the augers "usually" running 10:1 slower or around 110rpm (baseline for most 2 stage snowblowers, not all), so the ends of the shaft don't really need bearings. You can crank up the speed by upsizing the PTO sheave or downsizing the impeller pulley size, but you're still geared down once you get to the auger shaft.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I just removed the impeller bushings from a 1971 32 ' 7 hp ariens....the bearings and bushings were original...I bought her from the original owner.....and PERFECT. I dismantled the auger which was blown...repaired....and put back the original bearing and bushings.....if good enough for 36 years...good enough.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Another vote for bearings not being needed. The RPMs are low, and the system has plenty of torque available at the auger shaft. And bushings last a long time, with pretty much zero maintenance (checking them every few years is probably sufficient). 

Another consideration is that the bushings are unlikely to corrode to the auger shaft, and should come off easily. But if you install a bearing, the inner race of the bearing should ideally be tight against the auger shaft, so there is no movement between the two. Which means that if you try to remove it a few years later, it's possible it could be rusted to the auger shaft, and difficult to remove. 

I'm not trying to say don't do it. I understand the fun in tinkering, and trying to improve a machine. I'd just consider some of the aspects of this change. Perhaps there are other areas of the machine that could see more of a benefit from some extra attention.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Pretty interesting observations here......I love the Older Snapper SnowBlowers. I presently own 4, have bought and sold 4 others this year. They all had factory grease-able bearings or bushings holding the auger shafts. To be honest, I have never ahd to take one apart, so I'm not really sure what they are, other than dependable and possibly lifetime??? I've seen then on the I series as well as the medium frame machines. IDK what they cost, as never replaced them. But I'll look up replacements, because I think it's a great idea. 

Thanx, Jay


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Here's a link to a Snapper auger side bearing, bolted to the tub. Just a quick grab, not price shopping

https://www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-parts-lookup/part/snapper/7051350yp

GLuck, Jay


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

Jayz, $15 is so low for that greasable bearing, makes me wonder if it's just a plain bearing. Not a ball bearing.
Having the grease fitting is a great idea.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

I was the one that created the thread on converting my blower from plastic bushings to flanged roller bearings and it's been a few years. Here's what I've seen since having done it.


First off the effort to move the blower when powered off is considerably reduced after the change to roller bearings. I can move a 10 hp blower using just 1 hand if I want and not straining either.
With the auger housing off the machine, the effort to spin the auger pulley is reduced when done by hand. Takes less effort and spins faster. This was with no changes to the auger gearbox, before or after.
I treated the axel, auger shaft ends and set screws with antiseize before assembly, none are frozen up or rusted on. The bearings have grease zerks, I just give them a shot of grease each fall, can't be any easier than that. That's about all the maintenance you have to do on them.
Once set up, the bearings removed a considerable amount of slop present with the oem plastic bushings both on the axel and augers. That saves wear and tear on other parts of the drive train and the auger stays true to the middle of the auger housing.
The oem plastic bushings were unobtainable so even if I had wanted to retain them, being the originals were elongated from wear over the years I would have had to live with the slop in them or dump the blower had I not gone with bearings.


For me it was a good modification to this blower and others I've done it to. It may not be for everyone or every machine but then again, if it saves a good blower from the scrap heap due to a few unobtainable parts then it's something worth considering IMO. Doesn't hurt that it seems to have added some strength and firmness to them either, that's a side benefit.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

HCBPH said:


> ". . . The oem plastic bushings were unobtainable . . ."


Can you remind us of what unit this is where parts are not available ?


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Vermont007 said:


> Can you remind us of what unit this is where parts are not available ?






There's a couple of the ones that I've modified with the flanged roller bearings.





The plastic bushings above are unobtainable from my research. There are 2 different sizes on the above machines. The holes get elongated over time and the plastic breaks around the mounting holes making them worthless. Without decent ones, the axel and auger shafts flop around in their respective holes, causing the auger rakes to hit the housing and the axel shaft to move jamming the drive chain and hopefully not break anything. I spent alot of time looking and didn't find replacements. I also was not able to find anything from other brands that fit and worked on my machines, although I suspect there might be, I just didn't find them.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

You're well beyond being able to use it; but I think this would be the replacement Auger Bushing for your unit, which was manufactured by AMF or Murray for Sears (536):

Flanged Bushing Replaces: Ariens 05521600


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## amuller (Jan 3, 2016)

I think one reason for using bushings in these applications is that they are more tolerant of moisture. Ball or roller bearings may tend to get moisture forced into them unless there are zerks and they get greased after every use....


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

FWIW, Ariens uses rubber-sealed ball bearings for the axles, and the impeller, on my machine, with no grease fittings for them. They seem to hold up pretty well, at least. Now, when I bought the machine (it was about 15 years old), I did have to replace them, and one axle bearing was not turning. So they won't last forever, but they can do alright. My machine looks like it was stored outside, which couldn't have helped anything.


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## Prime (Jan 11, 2014)

Sign216 said:


> Is it possible to add ball bearing cups for the auger shafts to rest in, instead of the sheet metal collars they have now?
> 
> 
> I've got my 1994 MTD/Yard Machines snowthrower apart to replace a broken shear pin.
> ...


May not be worth the effort. My Honda hs928 is 3 years old took the auger out to grease stubs touch up paint etc. The end bearings looked like new. But I could not turn the inner race on either bearing. So the shaft was just turning in the race, same as a bushing. I replaced the bearings at a cost of $20. Expensive for 3 years. I've had augers with bushings go 10 yrs + without a problem. Only you can decide if it's worthwhile.


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## GregNL (Jan 9, 2017)

HCBPH said:


> First off the effort to move the blower when powered off is considerably reduced after the change to roller bearings. I can move a 10 hp blower using just 1 hand if I want and not straining either.
> With the auger housing off the machine, the effort to spin the auger pulley is reduced when done by hand. Takes less effort and spins faster. This was with no changes to the auger gearbox, before or after.
> I treated the axel, auger shaft ends and set screws with antiseize before assembly, none are frozen up or rusted on. The bearings have grease zerks, I just give them a shot of grease each fall, can't be any easier than that. That's about all the maintenance you have to do on them.
> Once set up, the bearings removed a considerable amount of slop present with the oem plastic bushings both on the axel and augers. That saves wear and tear on other parts of the drive train and the auger stays true to the middle of the auger housing.


For those saying bearings are overkill and won't make a difference, read above because HCBPH made some excellent points.

When I rebuilt my Yamaha essentially every bearing on the machine was toast. I couldn't turn the auger assembly with both hands without a lot of difficulty and there was considerable play in both the auger and impeller shafts. With new bearings and liberal amounts of cold weather grease I can turn the augers, which in turn spins the impeller, using just 1 finger. The machine is a lot tighter and runs considerably quieter compared to before I replaced them. While standard sealed ball bearings may never fail due to the weight or high speed when used in this application they with over time due to water ingress and vibration, if not kept packed with grease.

I'm a little late replying but I would have suggested taking the cups to a bearing/seal/precision company, as mentioned, and purchase one that would fit the cup and shaft and simply have bolted it back in place. Bearings are cheap, $2-5 each from brands like NTN, NSK, F A G, SKF. If the cup design you have wouldn't allow that option search online for "snowblower bearing cup" for a style that would and source it locally.


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