# Cub Cadet - seized or not?



## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

So I have a Cub Cadet 530 SWE that has the 357cc 83 Series OHV Horizontal Shaft Engine. 

Here’s the back story. I got the blower all ready for the winter, checked oil level, everything is good. Over the past 3 months I’ve gone out and started it about once a month, it sits in a heated garage. 

Yesterday I went to start it and pushed the electric start and all it did was hum at me. No engine movement. So i checked my choke, gear, safety key, oil, etc... and like a dumby I pushed the button again and same thing, buzzed for 1-2 seconds and nothing. I then tried to pull start & it wouldn’t budge. So i pulled the recoil assembly off (the housing with the rope) & tried to turn the flywheel and I can’t even turn it 1 full rotation - see the video: 



It sounds like the piston is hitting the head and that’s why it stops??
I’m clearly way over my head here, but this is where I’m at. Before I tear off the head and/or sump, this is what I’ve done:

1. Emptied all oil and took out spark plug. 
2. I can feel a good puff of air out of the head when i spin the flywheel, but don’t feel much vacuum when going the opposite way. 
Would a stuck valve cause this problem?
3. I want to check the valves and make sure they’re fine and gapped properly. 
4. then i might as well take the head off since the valve cover is already off. 
5. All else fails I take the whole sump apart. 
Oh I also want to remove the electric starter first and make sure nothing is jamming the flywheel, I’ll do that next probably. 

So I’m an average joe grease monkey but have never tore down a whole engine. 
Does anyone have any tips on what might be causing this??? I just don’t get how the flywheel can spin freely, the piston moves up and down properly but then just stops when it gets all the way to the bottom or all the way to the top. 

Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks in advance. 


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Welcome to SBF!

Pulling the valve cover sounds like a good 1st step to me. By your description (I can't listen to the video where I am currently), it sounds like the head is hitting a stuck valve... If that's the case, hopefully it's not bent.

_(edit: I reread your post...you already have the valve cover off. you can unbolt the rockers and see if the valves move in/out.)_

Valve stems can get sticky from carbon &/or varnish. Seafoam does a good job dissolving the gunk; I freed-up two of my neighbor's Honda (OHC) engines this summer.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

8k56jkhttp://www.rvi.qc.ca/Powermore/Manuels/ZS-483-SUB.pdf


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

I suspect a stuck valve or possibly a loose piston rod bolt that has backed all the way out of the threads.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Put a wood dowel into the spark plug hole, see if it moves when you turn the engine by hand. IF it doesn't, it's a rod, if it does, it's a valve. 

If you go to home depot to get a dowel, find someone that knows what one is. Last time I had to say to the guy "ya know a round piece of wood"......


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

jsup said:


> Put a wood dowel into the spark plug hole, see if it moves when you turn the engine by hand. IF it doesn't, it's a rod, if it does, it's a valve.
> 
> If you go to home depot to get a dowel, find someone that knows what one is. Last time I had to say to the guy "ya know a round piece of wood"......


i asked for a lynch pin when i was at home depot, he looked at me as if i belonged to the white hoods club, sheash,


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

jsup said:


> Put a wood dowel into the spark plug hole, see if it moves when you turn the engine by hand. IF it doesn't, it's a rod, if it does, it's a valve.
> 
> If you go to home depot to get a dowel, find someone that knows what one is. Last time I had to say to the guy "ya know a round piece of wood"......


:funnypost:
Funnnny, but true.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

vinnycom said:


> i asked for a lynch pin when i was at home depot, he looked at me as if i belonged to the white hoods club, sheash,


 Go to the auto parts store and ask for a vortex generator. 
Old Air Force joke.:devil:


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

vbnuil


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

If it stops at the bottom and the top, I suspect something is loose in the bottom end.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I missed where he said the piston was moving. Did he see it? Or assume it based on the engine moving by hand like in the video?

Ticonderoga #2, brings me back to grammar school. What was the other one? DIXON! Those were the 2 pencil companies. Today, in Jersey City, NJ, the Dixon factory has been turned into condos/lofts. Dixon Mills.


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## Frankrizzo (Dec 19, 2017)

Good idea.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

Bent valve or bent connecting rod (piston) . . .

Some disassembly may be required.


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## FullThrottle (Apr 7, 2017)

Sounds like you might have a broken connecting rod.



usaftrevor87 said:


> So I have a Cub Cadet 530 SWE that has the 357cc 83 Series OHV Horizontal Shaft Engine.
> 
> Here’s the back story. I got the blower all ready for the winter, checked oil level, everything is good. Over the past 3 months I’ve gone out and started it about once a month, it sits in a heated garage.
> 
> ...


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

missileman said:


> Sounds like you have a broken connecting rod.


Something is up on either side of the piston. Above is a valve, below is a connecting rod, but because it rotates, doesn't mean the piston moves.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

That noise sounds a bit more external to me and if you have an alternator on that engine a magnet may have fallen off inside the flywheel jamming up on the stator mount.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

DriverRider said:


> That noise sounds a bit more external to me and if you have an alternator on that engine a magnet may have fallen off inside the flywheel jamming up on the stator mount.


 Good theory, if everyone keeps thinking of all the possibilities, we'll have this motor running in no time.:icon-stooges:


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Don't forget to pull off the belt cover and possibly the belts to rule out a problem in the drive train.

I was thinking connecting rod until you said you can feel air moving through the spark plug hole. Now I am thinking valve like everyone else.

Something on the flywheel side is also a good thought. Magnets are possible, but I once had a hedge trimmer where the coil broke loose and jammed the flywheel.


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## NorthMaine (Feb 9, 2015)

Sounds like a stuck valve not opening, therefore, causing the cylinder to compress to the point where you can't readily turn the crank. Take the valve cover off and I bet you will see a bent pushrod and one valve that you can't move by hand. Take the head off, and try to free it with solvent etc. Or get a replacement head on ebay and swap the whole thing out.


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## FullThrottle (Apr 7, 2017)

My old 30 year Mtd with a 10 hp Tecumseh,died on me last winter,it felt the same as he is demonstrating in his video,when I rotated the crank it would jam up.After taking it apart, I found pieces of the connecting rod in the base. . After a close inspection I saw a crack in the casing,but was lucky it didn't blow the side out and have a oily mess over the driveway lol.




jsup said:


> Something is up on either side of the piston. Above is a valve, below is a connecting rod, but because it rotates, doesn't mean the piston moves.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

xcs


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## NorthMaine (Feb 9, 2015)

jtclays said:


> With the spark plug removed how much compression do you think the stuck valve can contain? He's hand spinning a 2 1/2" aluminum disc with sharp edges and rotating a 357cc cylinder to a mechanical stop:grin:


Haha good call. Missed that part I guess...


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

OP Here:

I know the piston moves because i did the pencil trick and also can see it when I look into the spark plug hole. 
Thanks for all the help you guys. 
My next step is taking off the electric starter and make sure that isn’t catching, and. Make sure nothing is wedged behind the flywheel. If that checks out I’ll check out the valves next, then head, the sump. 
Probably won’t get to this for a few days, will keep you posted. 
Oh I also did take off all the belts and make sure it wasn’t an external auger problem or something. 
Like I said, I’m pretty handy with a wrench, just never completely tore down an engine. Will keep you posted


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

dfgrt


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

jtclays said:


> I can tell you from experience, removing the valve cover and checking the movement is WAY easier than getting to the starter or removing the flywheel on a first generation Powermore engine:devil:




Well the starter won’t be so bad just 4 screws and pull out. You’re right though the valve cover is right there also. I hope I don’t have to take the flywheel off. I’ll do the valve cover first. 
Good call


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

usaftrevor87 said:


> Well the starter won’t be so bad just 4 screws and pull out. You’re right though the valve cover is right there also. I hope to **** I don’t have to take the flywheel off. I’ll do the valve cover first.
> Good call
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We're waiting. This is almost better than watching "Breaking Bad" on Netflix.
opcorn:


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## NorthMaine (Feb 9, 2015)

jonnied12 said:


> We're waiting. This is almost better than watching "Breaking Bad" on Netflix.
> opcorn:


Excellent series, just finished it.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

NorthMaine said:


> Excellent series, just finished it.


 Yeah, Netflix has some good series. You should check out "Travelers".
Oops, off subject here.:angel:


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

jonnied12 said:


> Yeah, Netflix has some good series. You should check out "Travelers".
> Oops, off subject here.:angel:




Ozark on Netflix is really good too!! 

You guys won’t believe what the problem was... the big reveal coming up


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

Well... after all the guesses no one got it right. See the video for the big reveal!






Now my next question is... even with all the scoring, it still should run okay, correct? The cylinder walls are fine, valve rods are straight, will gap appropriately... I’m hoping it’s fine...


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

Don't keep us hanging. I don't want to have to wait for the next season on Netflix.
Can't we at least get a spoiler?


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

usaftrevor87 said:


> Well... after all the guesses no one got it right. See the video for the big reveal!
> 
> https://youtu.be/5qLjrWOMI1o
> 
> ...


If I had my guesses, it fell in through the plug hole...probably from something you removed during summerizing?

The extent of the damage to the piston/head/valves really needs to be assessed. 

It never ran with the nut in there correct?


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## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

What is that?? Uhhhhhhh me no thinks it belongs in there😳. I just thought of something. History is being made here. For the first time since Dino’s roamed the earth something bad happened that DIDNT Trace back to ethanol!!!


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

Are there any gouges in the cylinder wall below where the rings ride in the cylinder? Is the edge of the piston head damaged. It was hard to tell from the video.
Give us some close up photos of the cylinder wall and piston top.


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

Just noticed your name is usaf. Are you in the A.F.? I was a crew chief on B-52's back in the day. Air Force 1970 - 1974.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

usaftrevor87 said:


> Well... after all the guesses no one got it right. See the video for the big reveal!
> 
> https://youtu.be/5qLjrWOMI1o
> 
> ...


That was my next guess....  

I destroyed a SBC doing that. I took out that coil on cap GM distributor, and one of the little screws went down the fuel injector hole, and I didn't know it. I looked and looked, couldn't find it, it was black and I assumed it just got caught in the wiring harness. 

Well, it didn't. 

The biggest problem you face, is if it hit the nut at speed, it could have damaged the connecting rod, bearings, wrist pin, or crank. Run it till it blows!


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

I've seen


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

Here are some close up of the piston. The edges appear slightly damaged, but not scraping the cylinder wall, they’re nice and smooth. Spins freely. 
I honestly have no idea how it got in there. The guy i bought it from was an aviation mechanic and he tuned it up and what not, i never took the spark plug out except when I first bought it to see if it was a new plug (which it was). I literally took it out 3 seconds, looked at it and out it back in, there’s no way something could’ve made it in there. 
Very strange indeed. I guess i forgot to take head on photos of the piston. I can do that tonight or tomorrow. 



















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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

jonnied12 said:


> Just noticed your name is usaf. Are you in the A.F.? I was a crew chief on B-52's back in the day. Air Force 1970 - 1974.




Yea I was. 05-09. Was a fuels specialist. Mainly B52s up in Minot. Freezin for a Reason!


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

usaftrevor87 said:


> Yea I was. 05-09. Was a fuels specialist. Mainly B52s up in Minot. Freezin for a Reason!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Thanks for your service!


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

usaftrevor87 said:


> Here are some close up of the piston. The edges appear slightly damaged, but not scraping the cylinder wall, they’re nice and smooth. Spins freely.
> I honestly have no idea how it got in there. The guy i bought it from was an aviation mechanic and he tuned it up and what not, i never took the spark plug out except when I first bought it to see if it was a new plug (which it was). I literally took it out 3 seconds, looked at it and out it back in, there’s no way something could’ve made it in there.
> Very strange indeed. I guess i forgot to take head on photos of the piston. I can do that tonight or tomorrow.
> 
> ...


No scoring in the cylinder wall is a good thing.
I'd say get new gaskets, button it up except for the valve cover. (Don't forget to remove that **** nut!)
Check the valve clearances. Put the valve cover on.
Fire that puppy up and go blow some snow!:smile_big:


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

jonnied12 said:


> No scoring in the cylinder wall is a good thing.
> I'd say get new gaskets, button it up except for the valve cover. (Don't forget to remove that **** nut!)
> Check the valve clearances. Put the valve cover on.
> Fire that puppy up and go blow some snow!:smile_big:



Thanks for yours as well!

Yea that’s what I’m thinking too. Only problem is it’ll take a week for a new head gasket, but we got 8-14” of snow coming supposedly haha should be fun! Hopefully a dealer has them in stock. 


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

usaftrevor87 said:


> Thanks for yours as well!
> 
> Yea that’s what I’m thinking too. Only problem is it’ll take a week for a new head gasket, but we got 8-14” of snow coming supposedly haha should be fun! Hopefully a dealer has them in stock.
> 
> ...


Can you put it back together temporarily with the old head gasket? It might hold together long enough to ensure everything runs as it should before spending more money on it as well as getting you through the coming storm.


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

Shryp said:


> Can you put it back together temporarily with the old head gasket? It might hold together long enough to ensure everything runs as it should before spending more money on it as well as getting you through the coming storm.




I mean, I probably could, but a gasket is like $13. And then putting it back together to just tear it all down again, sounds like a PITA. We’ll see what the dealer tells me tomorrow. 


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

if the dealer doesn't have a gasket and that much snow is coming i would put it back together with the old gasket for sure. You my find out that it is just fine and you won't need a new gasket. Stranger things have happened.

Carl.


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## Onjig (Dec 21, 2015)

Well ~ Sir~ You've got luck~ or an Angle on your shoulder``` That nut could have gone through the piston ~ had it done its slamming in the center ``` Good for you```


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

Onjig said:


> Well ~ Sir~ You've got luck~ or an Angle on your shoulder``` That nut could have gone through the piston ~ had it done its slamming in the center ``` Good for you```




Yea i got extremely lucky. Previous seller said “there’s way I dropped that down there.” I think he thought i was trying to shake him down, which I wasn’t. My neighbor was nice enough to let me borrow his blower. We ended up with 17 inches here in MN. I have no idea how I even got through it in my F150, but she made it into the garage after work haha
Thanks for everyone’s help & guidance. 


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

usaftrevor87 said:


> Yea i got extremely lucky. Previous seller said “there’s way I dropped that down there.” I think he thought i was trying to shake him down, which I wasn’t. My neighbor was nice enough to let me borrow his blower. We ended up with 17 inches here in MN. I have no idea how I even got through it in my F150, but she made it into the garage after work haha
> Thanks for everyone’s help & guidance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Did you get that puppy back together yet? We are all waiting?opcorn:


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

jonnied12 said:


> Did you get that puppy back together yet? We are all waiting?opcorn:




I did finally! I got the parts manual online & ordered a new head gasket but it was too small... even though the numbers were right. 
So I called a local dealer who had a different part number, so i clearly missed something. Anyways, it runs like a champ now, only hiccup i had was it was running rough at first and I forgot to re-gap the valves, so I did that and now it chugs along just fine. Just waiting for another 17” of snow to come haha


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

usaftrevor87 said:


> I did finally! I got the parts manual online & ordered a new head gasket but it was too small... even though the numbers were right.
> So I called a local dealer who had a different part number, so i clearly missed something. Anyways, it runs like a champ now, only hiccup i had was it was running rough at first and I forgot to re-gap the valves, so I did that and now it chugs along just fine. Just waiting for another 17” of snow to come haha
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 :goodjob:


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## Onjig (Dec 21, 2015)

Good luck to you ~ with that kinda snow ~ 18" ~ you should have a 4x4 ~hope you do ```

onjig


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

Onjig said:


> Good luck to you ~ with that kinda snow ~ 18" ~ you should have a 4x4 ~hope you do ```
> 
> 
> 
> onjig




Yea I have a 4x4, just got it in August. Glad I got the F150 with the FX4 package for the locking differential, I’ve had to use it twice this year. 
Once to get up my driveway haha and a second to get out of a ditch when the car next to me spun out and i swerved to miss him. It worked out but I still have the factory tires, need to get some better all terrains next year. 


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

I thought of this thread the other day when I was wrenching into an old Kohler K181 (_powering a Wheel Horse C85 "Black Hood" tractor_).










There was another one jammed behind the intake valve stem!


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## usaftrevor87 (Jan 18, 2018)

classiccat said:


> I thought of this thread the other day when I was wrenching into an old Kohler K181 (_powering a Wheel Horse C85 "Black Hood" tractor_).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I now whole heartedly believe in Nut Goblins... they’re real, I’m convinced. 


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## kallaway17 (Feb 11, 2018)

I have the exact same blower, but I was not as lucky. I blew right through the casing. Can anyone recommend the best and most cost effective way to replace the engine?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Welcome to the forum! 

Sorry to hear your engine blew, that sucks. I assume it's not under warranty? 

You'll probably need some details on your current engine to help figure out suitable replacements. Including crankshaft diameter and length, as well as the height of the crankshaft from the bottom of the engine. 

It's a big engine, many of the common replacements are smaller. Harbor Freight sells a 301cc (I think) engine for about $240. 

I don't know if it would just bolt up to your machine, but the price is pretty good, and it's still a respectable engine size. They also sell a 420cc, though it's more expensive.


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