# Will any 5W-30 be okay to use? Or is there a specific type of for 4-strokes?



## Helishmeli

I just bought a 2015 Troy-Bilt Storm 2060 (HD ran out of the Ariens compact model). It says to use 5W-30, so I went to Auto Zone and only found oils that seem to be designed for cars. I ended up buying a quart of Castrol SAE 5W-30.

My question is... Is this okay to use? Or should I have gotten a 5W-30 designed for snow blowers (if such a thing exists)?

Also, the salesman at Lowes told me the snow blower comes with about 5 hours' worth of oil in it, so I used it a little today (I checked the dipstick to make sure). When I do add oil to it, can I just top it off and mix oils? Or do I need to drain it first and maybe clean something?


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## Spectrum

I make it a practice to check the oil with every tank of fuel. I suggest doing the same at least until you understand the usage pattern.

There is really no such thing as snowblower oil, What you got should be fine if meets the engine requirements. FWIW I'm partial to synthetic 5-30 but there are threads that beat that to death.

You will top it off as needed and change it periodically, generally once per year. Keep it at the full line, don't take liberties in the OK range. By staying at the full line you have some safety margin if consumption spikes and a little more mass to process heat with.

Pete


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## GoBlowSnow

You will be just fine with the oil you got. But I would recommend you eventually get over to Mobil-1 5W30 Full synthetic. The synthetics do a better job at heat dissipation and also will lube the engine quicker when cold. So run what you have now for a few hours, get maybe 5-8 hours on her, then change it out. You'll be just fine.


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## dbert

Helishmeli said:


> I just bought a 2015 Troy bilt storm 2060
> 
> Also, the salesman at lowes told me the snow blower comes with about 5 hours worth of oil in it, so I used it a little today (I checked the dipstick to make sure). When I do add oil to it, can I just top it off and mix oils? Or do I need to drain it first and maybe clean something?


The 5 hours worth of oil was because it's a new machine. Brand new engines have to wear in, and they make a lot of contaminants doing so. You will want to drain out all the oil after a few hours of use and put in fresh stuff. We call it break-in oil. After the first oil change you can go much longer. Most do it (change it) once a year.


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## Oneacer

I agree with GoBlowSnow, you want to be using the full synthetic 5w30 oil, as recommended by B&S and others. I use no particular brand and get it in a 5 quart size at WalMart. It offers better operating range and protection. I would also change it after a few hours of operation being that it is new, getting rid of the "break in" oil.

I have 3 blowers and moved them all over to the full synthetic 5w30.


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## Clearview60

It's probably overkill, but I change my oil twice a year. Once roughly halfway through the snow season, and then once after the season is over. It's currently one of the few things I feel I can do, haha, so I figure it can't hurt and the oil is cheap enough.
Have been using Quaker State Advanced Durability 5W-30 as of late, haven't made the jump to synthetic yet.


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## AL-

Do not mix viscosities , brands are OK, . I don't think you should mix regular oils with synthectic.


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## Bror Jace

The quart of Castrol 5W-30 you bought is just fine. Go ahead and use it. I would recommend, however, that after your first 2-3+ hours of use, you change the oil to get rid of all the break-in bits and pieces floating around in your motor oil. They aren't doing your motor any good.

Synthetic is good in a snowblower if it is started in an unheated space because it flows more easily in frigid temps. If the machine is stored in a heated garage, synthetic is not needed. 

Seasonal oil changes are recommended because there is no air filter, there is no oil filter to catch bits of metal and fuel dilution is common in these engines. 3 reasons NOT to stretch your oil change interval (OCI) and another reason synthetic is not needed and is usually just a waste of money.

Oil changes in a snowblower are as easy as easy gets. Most current models have a spout off the back of the machine to make it as simple as can-be.

Mixing oil weights, brands or types of oils is OK. They are all compatible. You are not likely to get _better_ protection by blending, but it will do no harm. Want a lil' extra protection for your motor? Add a touch of break-in additive (many brands to choose from) or this stuff:

LIQUI MOLY - Motor Oils, Additives, Car Care - Products - MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment

Do NOT over-treat. Too much additive can mess with the original chemistry of the oil and protection begins to go down the more you add.

I use "Yeti Blood," an HDEO 0W30 but it is overkill:

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee149/BrorJace/Oil%20Analysis/Chevron_Delo_0W-30_large.jpg


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## AMSOIL

Look at your owners manual and follow "Their" initial "Break In" Hour recommendations. If there was a major concern about the residual "Machining Dust" from manufacturing the OEM would have performed a pre-delivery oil change or attached an Oil Filter on the motor. Use a Synthetic Oil of your choice since the operating temperature will be reached when in use. Synthetics move heat which is the primary reason(not the only reason) for component failure and is recommended by all OEM equipment. I would highly recommend you Do Not use additives in your oil because if your oil is of any quality it would be performing they way it should and be recommended by the OEM. Im sure in your manual as with any equipment it does not recommend you use an oil additive. If you have any further questions let me know. Thanks!


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## Town

Helishmeli said:


> I just bought a 2015 Troy bilt storm 2060 (HD ran out of the ariens compact model). It says to use 5w-30, so I went to auto zone and only found oils that seem to be designed for cars. I ended up buying a quart of Castol SAE 5W-30.
> 
> My question is is this okay to use? Or should I have gotten a 5W-30 designed for snow blowers (if such a thing exists).
> 
> Also, the salesman at lowes told me the snow blower comes with about 5 hours worth of oil in it, so I used it a little today (I checked the dipstick to make sure). When I do add oil to it, can I just top it off and mix oils? Or do I need to drain it first and maybe clean something?


The oil required is Automotive detergent oil conforming to API service category SJ or newer (currently SN). You will see the API insignia in a prominent position on the container. There are other categories of oil for different needs such as non-detergent, diesel, etc that would likely be for sale at Auto Zone. Check your container specifies the oil meets the above specification. 

The salesman is mistaken in the idea that your machine came with about 5 hours worth of oil in it, as others have said. Your engine should not use any oil, or a very nominal amount. The idea is that after a period of first use the engine oil needs to be changed to eliminate contaminants. The change interval varies greatly by manufacturer and user. Your owner manual will suggest a time period for the first oil change, mine is the first month of use (about 20 hours in my case). Then there will be a recommendation to change the oil on a seasonal or usage basis.

Good luck.


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## Mrfedex40

Yeah I use thrb5 qt jug of super tech 5w30 full synthetic from walmart great price and I run that in all my power equipment except for my old Troy bilt horse!!!!


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## mobiledynamics

I'd run a high zddp oil, any HDEO variant or HM oil


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## Marty013

any 5w-30 oil is fine.. synthetics will help get the engine started in cold temps.. not very noticeable if you us an electric start.. but if you pull start it dead cold on a COLD day.. youll get a workout... synthetics will help then.. myself ive used 0w-30 sythetic oil and the difference is amazing in cold days... plus as others mentionned, synthetics will help reduce cold start wear and a bunch other positives.. the only real negative is the price.. it IS more epensive than regular oils but hey. its only one quart right?


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## lillbear

Helishmeli said:


> I just bought a 2015 Troy bilt storm 2060 (HD ran out of the ariens compact model). It says to use 5w-30, so I went to auto zone and only found oils that seem to be designed for cars. I ended up buying a quart of Castol SAE 5W-30.
> 
> My question is is this okay to use? Or should I have gotten a 5W-30 designed for snow blowers (if such a thing exists).
> 
> Also, the salesman at lowes told me the snow blower comes with about 5 hours worth of oil in it, so I used it a little today (I checked the dipstick to make sure). When I do add oil to it, can I just top it off and mix oils? Or do I need to drain it first and maybe clean something?


Ok let's make it simple 5W-30 for car is what you need. Usually small engine need an oil change after 5h of run time when new check your manual. I check the oil level every time I use it.
Regular oil is adequate but synthetic is better
Yes if your oil level comes down you top it up but it shouldn't happen if you follow your manual maintenance schedule


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## Bror Jace

_”Look at your owners manual and follow 'their' initial 'break-in" hour recommendations. If there was a major concern about the residual "Machining Dust" from manufacturing the OEM would have performed a pre-delivery oil change or attached an Oil Filter on the motor.”_


The quality of owner's manuals varies greatly these days. I do recommend owners read them … but I consider them as 'guidebooks' rather than 'bibles.' However most do, in fact, recommend a quick initial oil change after about 5 hours of initial engine run-in. It's conventional wisdom that this is to flush out break-in particles that are so prevalent in a nearly-new motor (sorry, I can't cite a source). The oil that came out of my B&S on my Ariens was so full of metal, it looked like silver soup. Given the tiny sumps these engines have, best to flush this stuff out as soon as you can. I changed my oil 3 times in the first 12 hours.


Do you have any evidence to share with us that shows that high-heat is a cause for concern in engines operated in 0F to 40F degree weather? If so, I will agree that synthetic is a very good idea. Currently, I think they are unnecessary unless you need the cold-start performance.

_”I would highly recommend you Do Not use additives in your oil because if your oil is of any quality it would be performing they way it should and be recommended by the OEM. I'm sure in your manual as with any equipment it does not recommend you use an oil additive. “_


While not necessary, the addition of extra metallic additives can help protect engines that are pushed hard. I believe this is why they usually ask for an old SAE spec such as SJ or SL. Since there is essentially no emissions equipment on these motors, fouling sensors, etc … is not a concern. The reason manufacturers do not recommend oil additives in general is that they have no control over which ones are used. Best/easiest/simplest to recommend none be used at all.


PS: I like Amsoil and general, and use a few of their specialty products like MTF. This has nothing to do with brands and I try to recommend at least 2 or 3 different brands so people don't think I'm pushing my favorites.


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## GMH

lillbear said:


> Ok let's make it simple 5W-30 for car is what you need. Usually small engine need an oil change after 5h of run time when new check your manual. I check the oil level every time I use it.
> Regular oil is adequate but synthetic is better
> Yes if your oil level comes down you top it up but it shouldn't happen if you follow your manual maintenance schedule


Yeah, keep it simple! While you're at it, get a dedicated 2 gallon plastic fuel can and a bottle of fuel stabilizer. I put the stabilizer in the fuel jug and run it in the machine all the time. That way you don't have to remember to put it in before summer storeage.


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## dr bob

My thinking is old-school I guess. The initial oil fill was barely at the 'low' mark so it got a splash to bring it to the top mark. After a couple hours of use, the level dropped to midway between the marks, and the oil was noticeably darker. So it got a drain-and-fill with synthetic (Mobil-1, same brand and weight that the Honda daily driver enjoys). After another six hours of use, it got another drain-and-fill. The oil that came out looked virtually identical to the oil that went in, plus it didn't us any oil at all this time. The original fill definitely carried some junk out, and break-in seems to be complete with no further particle contamination visible in the second drain. I don't think I'll get to 12 hours total time (TT) before it gets its third (end-of-season) oil change.

I'm also a fan of using stabilizer in all the fuel that goes in the tank. I run the carburertor dry after each use. That keeps gas from draining into the cylinder, washing the oil off the walls and diluting the oil in the sump.

The fuel tank is kept full during the season, then gets drained and run completely dry at the end of the season. The tank and cylinder get fogged with marine preservative for off-sesason storage. A lot of that caution/procedure comes from a few decades of boating, where the environment is similarly friendly to corrosion.


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## GoBlowSnow

Here is another thing to consider when it comes to changing oil. Oils now a days have ad packs in them, designed to be released and be effective, those ad packs have protective stuff in them. If you are changing the oil too soon, you are likely not getting the full benefit of the oil and what it has in it to help with lubrication and protection for the engine.


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## Bror Jace

_"Oils nowadays have add packs in them, designed to be released and be effective, those ad packs have protective stuff in them. If you are changing the oil too soon, you are likely not getting the full benefit of the oil ..."_

This is not really correct. True, if you change oil very frequently, it is a waste. But given the minimal sumps these one-lungers have, it's not a great deal of oil. Also, if you return your oil for recycling (as you should!) you are minimizing the already small amount of waste. 

Additive packages (detergents, dispersants, antacids and anti-wear additives) are best/most-effective when they are newest ... and their effectiveness diminishes with time and use.


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## RedOctobyr

mobiledynamics said:


> I'd run a high zddp oil, any HDEO variant or HM oil


I've heard the same suggestion. To explain better, HM is High Mileage, unless I'm misunderstanding. I use Mobil 1 in my small engines, and I try to buy the High Mileage version when possible, since it has more ZDDP, which I understand can help lubricate the cam system. 

Being realistic, it probably doesn't make any meaningful difference, and I realize this. But, as others said, it's a quart per year. A few dollars, for peace of mind, is worth something to me. 

In reality, most small engines (owned by "normal" people  ) probably get their oil changed with whatever is available, hopefully the right weight, maybe every several years if they're kinda lucky. So fretting about whether to use regular or synthetic for seasonal oil changes, or High Mileage, is probably not really a problem. Changing it regularly, and ensuring it's filled properly, probably puts you ahead of the curve already. 

If you could only pick one or the other, I'd propose keeping fuel stabilizer in your gas all the time, over using synthetic oil. Avoiding carb problems can save quite a bit of headache, while synthetic is probably less of an "obvious" benefit. If your cylinder bore is wearing 10% quicker because of using conventional oil instead of synthetic, that's less noticeable than when your engine won't start because the carb is gummed up. I think synthetic is good, to be clear, but don't neglect your fuel either.


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## Kiss4aFrog

Mrfedex40 said:


> Yeah I use thrb5 qt jug of super tech 5w30 full synthetic from walmart great price and I run that in all my power equipment except for my old Troy bilt horse!!!!



I have the original Kohler on mine and it likes heavier oil for sure but it's tearing up sod and in the summer heat !!

The blowers and riders get 0W40 Mobil 1 from Walmart. No problems and start easier in below zero weather. At least it feels like it to me.


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## Bror Jace

_"I try to buy the High Mileage version when possible, since it has more ZDDP, which I understand can help lubricate the cam system."_

Yes ... that pretty much sums it up. When OPE is pushed hard ... a lot of load, a lot of high temps, run on old oil, etc ... it's the metallic anti-wear adds that keep the motor protected and they are in higher concentration in HDEO, racing, High Mileage and Extended Protection oils.

You can also use additives ... although that's a bit controversial. See the exchange a bit earlier in this thread.

_"Being realistic, it probably doesn't make any meaningful difference, and I realize this. But, as others said, it's a quart per year. A few dollars, for peace of mind, is worth something to me. "_

Exactly, it's cheap and easy ... so why not?

_"If your cylinder bore is wearing 10% quicker because of using conventional oil instead of synthetic ..._

I don't believe this is the case. Once up to a normal operating temp, I think preventing wear is not up to the base oil (conventional vs synthetic), but the additive package. Synthetic simply flows and survives better at extreme temps ... and survives longer allowing extended oil change intervals (provided you are properly filtering the oil).

And I agree with the advice about fuel stabilizer, A decade ago, this was a bit of added insurance. However, with current ethanol blended fuels, it is becoming an absolute necessity. Use a newer formula that specifically stipulates it deals with ethanol issues. I DO NOT recommend "Stabil red" any longer.


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## RedOctobyr

Bror Jace said:


> And I agree with the advice about fuel stabilizer, A decade ago, this was a bit of added insurance. However, with current ethanol blended fuels, it is becoming an absolute necessity. Use a newer formula that specifically stipulates it deals with ethanol issues. *I DO NOT recommend "Stabil red" any longer.*


Curious, what do you use? For the last few years I've been using the Marine Sta-Bil, the dark blue stuff.


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## Bror Jace

_"Curious, what do you use? For the last few years I've been using the Marine Sta-Bil, the dark blue stuff."_

That's probably good stuff ... with or without their "360" vapor technology. I DO use Stabil 360 stuff in my S2000. The 360 vapors probably do not help if you have a plastic fuel tank.

I have been using Briggs & Stratton 3-in1 fuel treatment & Stabilizer for the past year. They have updated it further to 5-in-1:

http://www.brandnewengines.com/images/products/detail/100117.3.jpg

Others with good reputations are Amsoil PI, G-oil, Startron and some people swear by Seafoam (although I don't think it is intended as a stabilizer).


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## mmosberg

I use fully synthetic 5w-30 Mobil1 oil (same kind as on our VW and Audi TDIs) on my 2006 Husqvarna 8024STE fitted with a B&S 15A100 series engine. I change it every spring as part of the other storage preparations. I clearly remember the first oil change I did on the thing. What came out of the drain pipe looked like silver soup. You could litterarly see the tiny metal flakes in the oil, and I was stunned and sure that this thing aint gonna last long. Nowadays the oil looks like new when I drain it off. No discolorazition at all. I also use to empty a small syringe of oil down into the cylinder and pulls it around a few revolutions before putting the plug back on and then pulls the manual starter until some resistance is felt. That leaves the engine with both valves shut.


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## Zedhead

Considering that my 1972 824 has run nearly 50 years in Northern Minnesota with not a single drop of synthetic oil in it. Your putting waay to much emphasis on synthetic oils.

Making sure the oil is to the proper level, and changed once a year is prolly more important than using synthetic oil.


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## mmosberg

Zedhead said:


> Considering that my 1972 824 has run nearly 50 years in Northern Minnesota with not a single drop of synthetic oil in it. Your putting waay to much emphasis on synthetic oils.
> 
> Making sure the oil is to the proper level, and changed once a year is prolly more important than using synthetic oil.


I agree. Changing the oil regularly is more important than what kind. I just use what I have on hand.


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## shallowwatersailor

Adding a magnetic drain plug will assist in getting the metallic particles out. This is especially important on engines without filters to prevent the particles from continually circulating and causing wear.


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## suspicionogignorance3

Keeping the carburetor working correctly [No minor leak thru of needle/seat diluting the crankcase oil...or plugged idle circuits causing lean surge ] , can be more important IMO.
Ever wonder when crude prices are way low, gasoline too, but NOT motor oil off the shelves..?? And why is synthetic going up in price...as crude drops ..or why it even tracks mineral oil prices..? Just wondering...Is it: "Greed is Good"...


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## Kiss4aFrog

Zedhead said:


> Considering that my 1972 824 has run nearly 50 years in Northern Minnesota with not a single drop of synthetic oil in it. Your putting waay to much emphasis on synthetic oils.
> 
> Making sure the oil is to the proper level, and changed once a year is prolly more important than using synthetic oil.



Changing it regularly is way more important than anything and I don't think anyone is putting any special emphasis on synthetic oil. It's a recommendation because it's what most of us use and we like the results. It's only a couple bucks more an oil change so why not use a better product ??

Will your engine last 20 years with regular oil, very likely. Will it run well, very likely. If you forget to change it for 5 or 10 years it will still likely live long and run well. Or you could get a connecting rod through the side or an oil burner from scored walls and or rings.

IMHO Synthetic is just cheap insurance.


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## GoBlowSnow

Engines today are made differently vs engines in the past. Engines designed around synthetic oil generally have tolerances that would not be tolerated if you ran regular dyno in there for a long time. Just run what feels best to you.


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## Bror Jace

_:Engines today are made differently vs engines in the past. Engines designed around synthetic oil generally have tolerances that would not be tolerated if you ran regular dyno in there for a long time."_

Not true. "Dino" oil will do just fine in many snowblower applications. Synthetic is only "needed" if the machine is started in really cold temperatures ... as in 20F or colder temps.

I ran 15W40 Dad's old John Deere 1032 for over a decade because it was kept in a heated garage ... started at maybe 40-50F+ temps. Engine ran fine as the machine fell apart and was rebuilt a handful of times.


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## GoBlowSnow

I'm referring more to vehicle engines vs snowblowers.


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## Zedhead

Engines are not engineered around synthetic oil. 

Tolerances have tightened because of better metallurgy, CNC machining capabilities, and stricter emission standards. More than anything else.

One of the reasons synthetic is being pushed so hard is because there's a much larger profit margin to be had by the manufacturer. 

Yes, it flows better in cooler conditions. And that is a benefit. 

But, I've had numerous vehicles that have never seen a drop of synthetic oil that have run over 250K miles with no oil related problems ever. My current winter beater (1993 F150 5.0) has over 350K miles on it. When I bought it, it had 75K miles on the odo. Living in northern Mn. where winter cold can reach into the -20's-30's for weeks at a time. I doubt that the extra $600 that Synthetic oil changes would have costed over Dino oil, would have changed anything in the engine.


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## GoBlowSnow

Zedhead said:


> Engines are not engineered around synthetic oil.
> 
> Tolerances have tightened because of better metallurgy, CNC machining capabilities, and stricter emission standards. More than anything else.
> 
> One of the reasons synthetic is being pushed so hard is because there's a much larger profit margin to be had by the manufacturer.
> 
> Yes, it flows better in cooler conditions. And that is a benefit.
> 
> But, I've had numerous vehicles that have never seen a drop of synthetic oil that have run over 250K miles with no oil related problems ever. My current winter beater (1993 F150 5.0) has over 350K miles on it. When I bought it, it had 75K miles on the odo. Living in northern Mn. where winter cold can reach into the -20's-30's for weeks at a time. I doubt that the extra $600 that Synthetic oil changes would have costed over Dino oil, would have changed anything in the engine.


Try go making that argument to BMW, Audi, GM, Toyota, just to name a few. You sure as heck better believe that engines now a days are designed around synthetic oil. Go talk to the repair facilities who get to work on these engines that have small passages and what not which regular dyno oil won't get in thus causing problems. Sorry. I stand firmly behind my statement. 

Your 1993 Ford hardly qualifies for needing Synthetic. HUGE difference here between 1993 and 2013. And yes I believe those engines that were designed to run regular dyno oil can and do get high millage on the engines just fine with that regular dyno oil. Again, I am talking about modern vehicles. Vehicles where your warranty can and will be voided if you suffer a failure during the warranty period and they determine via oil analysis that you were not running the synthetic oil they specified needed to be ran. It's like running 15W40 in a modern engine designed to run 5W30.. You could get away with it on flat tapped cam engines from the 80s, but try doing that in a 2015 Dodge Charger or a 2015 Ford F150 and you're in trouble. Deep trouble. I'll leave it at that.


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## Zedhead

goblowsnow said:


> try go making that argument to bmw, audi, gm, toyota, just to name a few. You sure as heck better believe that engines now a days are designed around synthetic oil. Go talk to the repair facilities who get to work on these engines that have small passages and what not which regular dyno oil won't get in thus causing problems. Sorry. I stand firmly behind my statement.
> 
> Your 1993 ford hardly qualifies for needing synthetic. Huge difference here between 1993 and 2013. And yes i believe those engines that were designed to run regular dyno oil can and do get high millage on the engines just fine with that regular dyno oil. Again, i am talking about modern vehicles. Vehicles where your warranty can and will be voided if you suffer a failure during the warranty period and they determine via oil analysis that you were not running the synthetic oil they specified needed to be ran. It's like running 15w40 in a modern engine designed to run 5w30.. You could get away with it on flat tapped cam engines from the 80s, but try doing that in a 2015 dodge charger or a 2015 ford f150 and you're in trouble. Deep trouble. I'll leave it at that.



LOL!

Dood, You needa do a little research on bearing tolerance. They have tightened over the years. But not one production motor sold to the General Public has tolerances that REQUIRE Synthetic oil to operate without damage. 

Maybe if your driving around with a 900 HP Nascar V8, with tolerances down to .0002, you'd need a 0W20 oil.


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## brickcity

wow
what cars void the warranty if synthetic oil is not used?


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## GoBlowSnow

:fish10:Mm hmm...


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## Vitreous

brickcity said:


> wow
> what cars void the warranty if synthetic oil is not used?


Many vehicles require 0W-20 oil which is only available as a synthetic.


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## GoBlowSnow

This is just for starters:

5 Dumb Things That Can Void Your Car Warranty
https://oilcanhenrys.com/blog/2015/11/15/dexos-and-your-gm-vehicle/

(From the above link): 
*Why did GM create the dexos specifications?
*Vehicle manufacturers are creating increasingly complex engines as they work to meet stricter emissions regulations and increased fuel economy standards. GM enacted its dexos specifications to create a global standard for its vehicles; so, the oil specifications that apply in the United States, also apply in France, South Africa and Japan.
GM is not alone in issuing specific oil standards; Audi, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen also do it.

So essentially- You need to be using the type of oil which the manufacturer specifies in the manual. Now. They cannot force you to use a specific brand. You can use any brand, so long as on that oil container it clearly states that it meets or exceeds the specifications to which your owners manual calls for. SO for example.. GM vehicles need Dexos oil 2011 or newer gasoline (NOT DIESEL) engines. Dexos is not the name of an oil, it is more of a standard which GM developed. My car says 5W30 Dexos Approved motor oil. Dexos in most cases is a synthetic blend. Not a full true synthetic. So I can go over to NAPA, find a quart of Valvoline 5W30 and on that bottle I'll be looking for "DEXOS Approved" Then I will have to determine if I want the Dexos approved 5W30 full synthetic, or just the regular synthetic blend. As long as it says Dexos approved on there, the manufacturer can't come back and claim I used the incorrect motor oil which led to engine problems or failure. I would have proof (keeping receipts and proof of purchase) So I could use Valvoline, Mobil-1, Quacker State, Penzoil, Royal Purple, Amsoil.. whatever.. as long as it is the correct viscosity AND it has the Dexos approved logo on there. 

BMW, Audi, VW, and some of the higher end automakers require a Full Synthetic oil, so a synthetic blend would not cut it, it needs to be 100% synthetic. Again, they can only specify the viscosity, and the standards that the oil must meet or exceed. They cannot tell you you must buy a specific brand oil and oil filter only unless they are willing to provide that oil and filter to you for free.


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## briguy

Zedhead said:


> LOL!
> 
> Dood, You needa do a little research on bearing tolerance. They have tightened over the years. But not one production motor sold to the General Public has tolerances that REQUIRE Synthetic oil to operate without damage.
> 
> Maybe if your driving around with a 900 HP Nascar V8, with tolerances down to .0002, you'd need a 0W20 oil.


My 2007 Pontiac gxp requires mobile 1, even has it on the oil fill cap.


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## RedOctobyr

briguy said:


> My 2007 Pontiac gxp requires mobile 1, even has it on the oil fill cap.


I think we're only counting brands that are still around. 

Just messing with you :icon-hgtg: 

That's interesting, thanks. I wouldn't have expected that, but of course I haven't dug into the details of cars requiring synthetic. 

I chose to use synthetic (Mobil 1) on my last 2 cars, I don't know if it's really made a difference. But it provides a bit of peace of mind, which has some value to me. Of course, I now use longer-than-suggested change intervals, currently using 7,500 on my 5,000-with-dino-oil recommended 2009 Toyota. 

Maybe this gives up the possible advantage from the synthetic, I don't know. I've never had oil analysis done or anything like that. Bobistheoilguy.com is an interesting site, and I've definitely learned stuff there, but I've never been compelled to dive super-deep into the topic.


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## GoBlowSnow

Synthetic most certainly does make a difference. Some of the benefits are:
1. Easier starting in cold weather, and quicker to lubricate the engine in cold weather. 
2. It helps disperse heat better
3. More detergents and ad packs in synthetic oil that helps keep the oil cleaner longer which results in being able to extend oil change intervals (just keep the filter changed, as most filters are only rated for 3000-5000 miles) 
4. It will get into small passages in the engine much much easier vs regular dyno oil. Toyota had a big problem awhile back in where regular dyno oil was not getting into some of the valve passages (I think that is what they called it?) due to them being engineered too small, and thus resulting in premature engine failure/wear/break down. They recommended in their TSBs to perform 3000 mile oil changes or switch to a full synthetic which they found greatly helped the issue. That is just one of a few examples. 

Now. That being said, let me point out that there are lots of gasoline vehicles out there (not counting Diesel, which is Diesel FUEL not GASOLINE, HUGE difference) that did not require synthetic oil from the factory and have gone 500,000+ miles on good old conventional motor oil. All because the owners took good care of them and they were good engines from the get go. So service is critical.


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## Bror Jace

I thought this was an OPE form ... about snowblowers, to be exact?

*GoBlowSnow*, I'll comment by number:

1) We agree.

2) Disperse heat better? I never heard that one. Can you cite a source?

3) I would say that synthetics _generally_ have better add-packs, but that is not a guarantee. As I have pointed out for years, Mobil typically thinks so highly of its base oil that it's add-pack has typically been on the thin-side for decades (metallic anti-wear adds to be precise). And top quality mfrs like Schaeffer will put a top notch add-pack in every oil they sell, regardless of whether the base oil is dino, synthetic or a blend. Soooo ... maybe.

4) Weight for weight, I don't believe synthetics will penetrate tight spots in your engine any better than dino oils. And besides, the tolerances on OPE are typically generous as compared to current automotive engines. I'm not sure it even matters.

5) Toyota's problem with engines a decade ago was a complex one and I believe it had to do with either the physical shearing of the oil or pockets of oil in the engine would get cooked from extreme heat (on purpose ... in the pursuit of lower emissions). I believe even some engines fed a diet of synthetic elixirs died an early death. 

The main benefit of synthetics is that they perform better in extremes ... flow easier in extreme cold and survive better in extreme heat. Yes, that also makes them last longer ... but this doesn't really apply to OPE that that dilute their oil with unburnt fuel and lack a spin-on filter to remove particulates (requiring more frequent drains).

Lastly, if we were having this discussion in the 80s and 90s, we would be discussing the differences between Group I and Group II dino oils and Group IV PAO synthetics. That's quite a gap. Today's reality is the Group II and II+ base oils are very close to the performance of the Group III synthetics which are fairly common nowadays.


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## RedOctobyr

Bror Jace said:


> 3) I would say that synthetics _generally_ have better add-packs, but that is not a guarantee. As I have pointed out for years, Mobil typically thinks so highly of its base oil that it's add-pack has typically been on the thin-side for decades *(metallic anti-wear adds to be precise)*.


Is this ZDDP that you're referring to, or something else? 

Mobil 1 apparently has different levels of ZDDP in different "flavors", the High Mileage version has more ZDDP than some of the other Mobil 1 types. So I try to get the High Mileage Mobil 1 for my small engines, since the ZDDP is apparently helpful for the valvetrain. 

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us/pvl/files/pdfs/mobil-1-oil-product-specs-guide.pdf


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## Bror Jace

*Red Octobyr*, yes, I am talking about things like ZDDP. The "vanilla" Mobil 1 typically has low amounts of metallic anti-wear adds. There are also molybdenum, boron and calcium-based anti wear additives that perform similar functions.

Yes, I'm aware of the "High Mileage" and "Extended Performance" versions of their oils that largely rectify this, but you have to pay extra for those. And don't they advertise the "vanilla" Mobil 1 as the ultimate in performance?

And I say "typically" as formulations can change once or twice per year ... so you should look at VOAs/UOAs from a recent batch to be sure (BITOG has THOUSANDS posted).


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## GoBlowSnow

Bror Jace said:


> I thought this was an OPE form ... about snowblowers, to be exact?
> 
> *GoBlowSnow*, I'll comment by number:
> 
> 1) We agree.
> 
> 2) Disperse heat better? I never heard that one. Can you cite a source?


Sure. 

For starters:

Why the Right Motor Oil Matters

Harley Lubrication | Harley Performance
Synthetic vs Regular Motor Oil: A Sun Valley Automotive Terry's Tip
https://www.angieslist.com/articles/synthetic-motor-oil-better-your-car.htm

Geeks On Cars: Synthetic Oil Vs. Conventional Oil


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## russkat

I think a question like this is how "Bobistheoilguy" forum got started !


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## pdesjr

zddp is a great anti wear additive. The reason they took it out of newer oils is it contaminates catalytic converters.It works great on flat tappet cam engines.And is not needed as much on newer roller cam engines.That's why it's so great for power equipment engines as they are flat tappet engines.As for synthetic vs dino oils synthetic flows much better at lower temps than dino oil. That's why it works so good in snowblower and all engines that are used in temperature extremes


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## Kiss4aFrog

I think the OP had an answer a few pages ago.


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