# Chinese Engines



## Wayne361 (Jan 19, 2013)

Hello new to the forum and due to reading I found out that my newly purchased Toro 726 with 205 cc Briggs is made in CHINA (engine)! I'm a bit pissed to be honest cause I bought Toro trying to stay away from Chinese crap. Anyhow, what is done is done, can anyone tell me how these engines stand up over time? I am aware that regular maintenance obviously makes a huge difference, but what is the word on the street regarding these Chinese engines vs american made product of only a few years ago? I did a search here but only comes up with models with Chinese engines, no data or opinions regarding durability/reliability over time. 

Wayne


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Wayne,
Toro went with all Chinese engines last year..
and before that, *all* snowblowers, from all manufacturers, have been about 80% to 90% Chinese engines for the past 5 years or so..

This will be the last winter for an American-made engine on any snowblowers, ever..and only on about 5% of models out this year..next year it will 100% Chinese engines on all snowblowers, by all manufacturers..you have probably already seen it, but this thread gives the recent history:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...scussion/1364-made-usa-versus-made-china.html

dont feel bad, the odds were against you! 
The only way you could have ended up with a US-made engine is if you purposely learned which models had US-made engines on them, then went out looking for those few specific models, and even then, it would be a challenge to find one..
going in "cold" and just buying any snowblower, even though you thought you were "buying american" based on the brand name, you had over 90% odds of getting a Chinese engine..probably 95% odds..

As for quality, most of them are very good..
as long as you go with a well-known brand name (which you did, with Toro) you can be assured its most likely going to be a fine engine.

There are some really low-end chinese engines (like the $99 Harbor Freight replacement engines you can buy) but the (reputable) snowblower manufacturers are using better engines..I wouldnt worry about it..

(There are some really junky low-end snowblowers out there, where the whole machine is made in China, where I would be much more suspect of the engine quality, and the quality of the whole machine! but those arent the well-known American snowblower manufacturers..like Ariens, Toro, MTD, Snapper, Simplicity, Husquvarna, etc..)

Probably the only real negative to your engine is that it was made in China..
if you care about that kind of thing..(which I do..)
but apart from that, the quality is probably perfectly fine..

Scot


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Look at it this way, Toro has built a reputation on their quality. Reality for them, like other manufacturers, has put them in a position of seeking items that allow them to remain competitive, without sacrificing the quality they are known for. I would hope that they had done their homework, and had found an engine that supports their reputation.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

This was posted by "snowmann", who works for one of the snowblower manufacturers, and is well-versed on the situation:

MTD uses Zongshen.
Toro uses Loncin. 
Ariens and Husqvarna use Briggs and LCT. 

(that is four different Chinese manufacturing sites/companys..including Briggs as Chinese-made)

Scot


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## Wayne361 (Jan 19, 2013)

Ok thanks for the responses guys. I feel a bit better knowing that it does make sense for Toro to keep their brand true to their name in ensuring the engines remain reliable/durable. Time will tell. I will do a review when we finally get some snow.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

sscotsman said:


> This will be the last winter for an American-made engine on any snowblowers,


Honda single-stage throwers [HS520A (pull-start), HS520AS (120V AC electric start)] will continue to be made at the Honda plant in Swepsonville, NC. This includes the casting and assembly of the engine, all they way to final assembly of the completed product. This plant has made Honda mowers and loose engines too, since 1982.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Wow, thanks Robert!
I will update the information on the "US-built" snowblowers with this info!
good to know..

scot


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

i am surprised that none of the makers of snowblowers or lawn mowers use lifan motors


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

"There are some really low-end chinese engines (like the $99 Harbor Freight replacement engines you can buy) but the (reputable) snowblower manufacturers are using better engines..I wouldnt worry about it.."


MTD uses Zongshen.
Toro uses Loncin. 
Ariens and Husqvarna use Briggs and LCT. 

(that is four different Chinese manufacturing sites/companys..including Briggs as Chinese-made)

HF 212cc Predator engines are manufactured by Loncin and are an updated version of the Loncin LC170F model.

It seems like the HF engine is made by the same company in China that makes the Toro engines. I like it much better than the Tecumseh 5hp engine that it came with. It starts in 1-2 pulls of the recoil and it runs very well. I had my doubts too so I first bought one to replace my 2.8hp Lifan engine on my Doodle bug minibike. I was rather impressed by how well the engine ran so I decided to replace the poor running Tecumseh on the snowblower and I do not miss the Tecumseh at all since the Predator engine runs way better than the Tecumseh ever did even when it was new.* If the Tecumseh would have ran well I would have simply left it on the snowblower and never replaced it. The carburetor on it never seemed to remain in tune and the engine always felt under powered compared to the Predator 212cc OHV engine I replaced it with. Another American company Arctic cat makes all of its snowmobile and AYV engines here in St Cloud Minnesota and they used to buy engines from Suzuki in Japan. China unfortunately is the new Japan and right now they make about 85% of all the small engines being sold. Even Honda has some engine parts that are made in China too. *


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

GustoGuy said:


> *Even Honda has some engine parts that are made in China too. *


For Honda snowblowers sold in the USA, none of the engines or frames are made in China.

2-Stage Honda snowblowers have their engines cast and assembled at the Honda plant in Thailand, then final assembly happens in Japan.

Single-stage Honda snowthrowers have their engines cast, assembled, and complete frame/final assembly all happens at the Honda plant in Swepsonville, NC. 

Honda EM, EB, and EG series generators are the only Honda products sold in the USA that are manufactured at Honda plants in China. Even those models get their engines cast and assembled at the Honda Thailand plant first. 

Trivia: Only Honda snowblowers have Honda engines. Honda does not sell their engines to any other snowblower manufacturer.


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

This map shows Honda's Manufacturing investment in the U.S. as of 2010. It's probably grown since then. Power equipment of all sorts including the snowblowers Robert mentions, are manufactured at the North Carolina facilities.

http://corporate.honda.com/america/2011 HIA Brochure Map_FINAL.pdf

This chart shows 2011 production numbers here in the U.S.A.

http://www.hondainamerica.com/sites/default/files/manufacturing-table2_2011.gif


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## Quickrick (May 2, 2011)

*chinese motors*

Let's hope that the Chinese standard of living improves...wages go up as they will over time.

QR


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

China is *still* a Communist country and as long as they are I doubt the standard of living will improve much. Still have child labor there too. Very repressive govt. I try my best no to buy chinese anything. If I do it is usually used product that I bought from someone else. I don't know why but I don't feel quit so bad doing it that way. I'll never run a chinese mfd engine when I know I can find a good old Briggs or Kohler.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Joe, I just bought a window regulator for a 2002 Mercedes E430 that clearly states "made in China". I ordered it through a German website to avoid the $600 bill my local Benz dealer would have charged me. $47 later, and the window works.......I love the Chinese. If you think you can stay "made in America" you might have to only buy liquor. Jack and Jim make some good products. I have a Suburban and Cadillac in the garage that have 80% of their parts made in Mexico.......and not that well


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

when wages in china get too high production will be moved to some other low wage country. as its been said before " its too early to know how good all these engines from china are going to be "


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

detdrbuzzard said:


> when wages in china get too high production will be moved to some other low wage country. as its been said before " *its too early to know how good all these engines from china are going to be "*


 

Well I just finished blowing my driveway this morning with my Harbor freight Chinese made 212cc Predator on my MTD 22 inch snowblower with bailer belt impeller kit on it and I was throwing snow in my neighbor's yard and I was hitting my wiegela's which are over 40 feet away from my driveway with the discharge. The Predator 212cc has become the darling of the Karting world and many articles have been written about it and there are hop up kits are available for it as well. The NR RACING THE LEADER IN HONDA GX & CLONE PERFORMANCE P*redator engines*are manufactured by Loncin and are a slightly more modern version based off the LC170F which makes the Toro engines so it should be of decent enough quality for a snowblower since snowblowers run at a steady throttle position and are not subjected to the hard loads of acceleration and are not run nearly as hard as a go-cart or minibike engine is. "If you are still concerned about the engine not being tough enough" you can always hop it up with a forged billet connecting rod that is over twice as strong as the stock connecting rod and replace the stock flywheel with a billet aluminum one rated to 8000rpms. Although it would be a waste of money if being used for a snowblower. Tecumseh engine are known to blow connecting rods too in the 7 hp and higher end models and I would have kept the Tecumseh but it was the worst running engine I have ever owned and I have 2 Briggs engines on my lawn mowers which run real well and I use Amsoil synthetics in them and one is about 6 years old now and it starts in 1 to 2 pulls all the time. The Tecumseh was a real bear to start and even when I got it started it seldom ran well. I do not miss it at all. I am not anti-American and I will buy American made products like my American made C-clamps and I own several Craftsman American made tools like a drill that I have had for over 30 years now that still works well. I also own and American made Buick Regal and it runs real well but I will not simply like an inferior valve in block temperamental carburetor poorly running engine simply because its made in America. The Predator is an efficient OHV designed engine that is Similar in design to the Honda GX (Honda Clone or Copy) series engines.​


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Manufacturing costs in china are rising fast so buy your engines while you can.

As China costs rise, technology lures U.S. factories home | Reuters


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Bring them jobs home. I just hated my Tecumseh because it ran poorly and was hard to start. If It would have ran well it would still be on the snowblower. I would like to see Briggs and Stratton start to make the 205cc engines here in the USA and employ USA workers but labor costs are way to cheap yet in China to allow that to happen yet however if Chinese workers keep demanding higher wages other costs such as transportation and logistics of supplying materials and parts might make the USA more attractive again as a manufacturing center. Right now Japan and South Korea have no real price advantage at all over non union workers here in the USA thats why the automobile industry is making Hyundia's and Toyota's here in the USA in right to work states such as Alabama.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Gusto guy I hear you...not knocking just saying better buy them now while you can because in a couple of years prices wont be much cheaper...although now they have the entire market when it comes to snowblower engines. We will see what Briggs does in a couple of years...hopefully manufacture their engines back here...knock on wood.


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## NJHonda (Feb 8, 2013)

Are the Honda HS621's also built in the US? I love mine, runs like a clock


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Welcome to SBF NJHonda. Their current line of single stage snow blowers are, so I'd guess there's a good chance that at least the engine was.


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## Bob in Canada (Nov 7, 2016)

*Don't buy MTD snowblower with chinese engine*

I wasted $1467 on a Cub Cadet (MTD) with a 243cc Chinese made Powermore engine. Ran perfect out of the box. Then after the third or fourth use use it was hard to start. Then spent 2 hrs tying to start it and gave up. Requires major disassembly just to get at the carburetor. After 47 years of using small gas engine equipment I have never seen such junk. I use only premium gas and store with gas stabilizer. I will go back to using my 16 yr old snowblower with a Techumseh engine - more power and starts first pull even after storage!


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

Just an update, for the curious:

Honda HS720 single-stage machines, which have a 190cc OHV/OHC engine, are fully manufactured, including the engine casting (on-site foundry), machining, assembly, and total assembly of the entire snowblower all happens at Honda's plant in Swepsonville, North Carolina. It has been building Honda mowers, engines, tillers, and snow blowers there since 1982. I understand Honda is the only snow blower manufacturer in the USA who's entire machine is actually 100% manufactured in the USA. 

Honda's larger HSS-series machines (2-stage, both track and wheel drive, from 24", 28", and 32" widths) are also assembled at the North Carolina plant. The larger GX-series Honda engines used in these machines are made at Honda's Global GX Production Plant in Thailand before being shipped over to the USA.


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

Bob in Canada said:


> I wasted $1467 on a Cub Cadet (MTD) with a 243cc Chinese made Powermore engine. Ran perfect out of the box. Then after the third or fourth use use it was hard to start. Then spent 2 hrs tying to start it and gave up. Requires major disassembly just to get at the carburetor. After 47 years of using small gas engine equipment I have never seen such junk. I use only premium gas and store with gas stabilizer. I will go back to using my 16 yr old snowblower with a Techumseh engine - more power and starts first pull even after storage!




My buddy brought me a cub cadet with a 5hp Chinese eng, wasn't running. After taking half the eng apart, carb came off, cleaned it well, got it back on, it ran but surged. Then the crank seal blew out and oil went everywhere. Seal wouldn't seat again so I bought another same size(NLA from cub cadet) and it also wont sit right, oil just leaks by outside of seal. I'm assuming the case cover is malformed or cracked. So now it has a tecumseh. Can't wait to try it this season.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

99.9% of crappy running ope is due to owner neglect, which then snowballs ( pardon the expression) into bigger issues when the owner or a well meaning friend tries to fix the issue, but goes off in a wrong direction. the " chondas" are good engines, possibly better than the last run of briggs or techs that were built in N.A. 
I have no issues with my blowers, they had been quiet for 8 months....two pulls on two machines, one pull on another.....all three are powered by the chinese made engines. sure you can get a lemon made by any manufacturer .....including honda and yamaha.


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