# Tracks or wheels for my driveway?



## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

My driveway is a paved circular driveway:
- 120' long, one car wide. 
- 1/3 of it is a hill. I'd say 10% grade, with the steepest part at 15%
- Opens to a 2-car garage at the bottom of the hill
- Near the road (top of the hill) the opening widens so there's room to park 2 extra cars

My local dealer sells Ariens / Husqvarna. I was thinking I'd get the 24" Ariens Track model to get up the hill, but my local dealer recommended the wheeled Ariens 28". He said he has stopped recommending tracks entirely because of the problems he sees with them. He must have had 30 snowblowers on display, all wheeled models. He said I'll have no problem getting up my driveway with the the wheels. 

I'm also concerned about auto-steer. Will being sideways on a sloped hill trigger auto-steer issues? He also said he hasn't had anyone complaining about auto-steer, but if I'm worried about it he'd go with the Husqvarna 28. He said it's a good bang-for-the-buck machine, giving you heated grips, levers to disengage the wheels, and would be more than fine for my need. A quick googling brought up drive belts breaking so I think I'll avoid them.

So I'd love to hear the opinions on whether I'd regret a wheeled unit for my driveway.

Thanks!


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

For inclines a track machine is definitely better IMO. 
You could also look for a used tracked Honda HS928 They do not have trigger steering but are not too bad to turn once you learn how to do it.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

I hear you that the tracks would be best. But would the wheeled version still work OK? It's $900 cheaper than the 28" track version (!!!) and would be significantly easier to move around in storage.

Or would the 24" non-auto-steer version be sufficient for that sized driveway? 208cc seems awfully small compared to the others in this group.

I'm tempted to go with the 28" track version but that's double the price for nothing if the wheels would have done just fine.


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

My guess is the dealer wants to sell what he has. Will wheels work? yes. Will tracks be better? Yes. Get tracks, it will make your life easier. I have a steep driveway and the experience of owning both.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

SnowG said:


> My guess is the dealer wants to sell what he has. Will wheels work? yes. Will tracks be better? Yes. Get tracks, it will make your life easier. I have a steep driveway and the experience of owning both.


Awesome, thanks.

Do you have Ariens tracks? Would you go 24" and muscle the turns, or 28" with autosteer?

I do wish there were a way to disconnect the transmission on the Ariens so you could push the **** thing around.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

I only have experience with an older Ariens ST1032 wheeled with 2 link v-bar chains and a Honda HS1132TA tracked machine.

The Ariens even with chains couldn't blow snow for me up my dirt driveway which I believe is not more than 5 percent grade.
The Honda tracked no problem.
But here's the deal with tracks. If you have real ice (not compressed snow) you need steel to penetrate and you can't put chains on a tracked machine like you can on a wheeled machine although I have read of somebody thinking of putting snowmobile studs on a tracked machine.

One more thing, what is your driveway surface?

If it is gravel, IMHO go tracked for sure.










Are you sure you have a 15 percent grade, because if so, I would not want to live or park below your driveway...


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

I think it might be nearly 15% in one spot. Definitely at least 10. Yeah it's not ideal. 

The surface is asphalt. 

Getting out of the driveway in winter (and avoiding sliding down the hill into my other car) is a real concern.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

I was at a honda dealer this week ,after I got my parts that I needed I was i ing the new honda blowers trac and wheel. The owner cam over and I asked him how hard it was to move the track , he told me to hold the triggers so I did . I don't know about ariens track blowers but the honda track move just as easy as a wheeled blower with the engine off but you pay it. You also get what you pay for and honda's have the best resale value.
For wheeled blowers I like the toro's oxe models ,they have trigger steering.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

I'll get the tracked snowblower just to save the aggravation of having the machine riding up all the time on hard packed snow.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

There is no question that tracked models are more efficient on steep grades and will dig into an icy plow pile more effectively. 

That being said I have used a wheeled model under such conditions (steep grade driveway) with good results as well. A front weight kit will help any snow blower keep good contact with the surface and the newer X-Trac design tires do bite into the snow very well. Based on E350's helpful diagram a 15% grade is cutting it close with a wheeled model but it should be okay. A 20% grade I would say you need the tracks. Another tip if I may, always where ice cleats over your boots, I do on my current relatively flat drive, even more important on a steep drive. These are usually available at your local Costco if there is one or can be ordered online, a popular brand is Yaktrax.

Additionally if your dealer is so confident I would ask him if he would take back the machine if there is a traction/performance issue on your driveway if you are unhappy with a wheeled Deluxe 28 SHO. Assure him/her that you will buy a tracked model from them if it doesn't work out. The dealer may not like selling/servicing them but they can certainly order a tracked model.

Best of luck on your search and let us know what you ended up getting.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

This is my back yard. I am a little bit past the corner of my house. If E350's chart is correct then I have possibly about a 5 degree upgrade. You can see by my neighbors garage that my garage is about maybe 2' higher than his. Basically all of the snow from the right garage down to the cellar door either goes behind my car on that 12' X 30' area of lawn, or it goes all the way back to the right side of the garage. 

Up until 2009 I had the original Goodyear tires on our 1971 Ariens. They did well. Very rarely did they really ever spin on me, unless we had the right kind of snow or it was really deep and more of an icy mix. Nor do I ever use her with the differential locked. Hardly ever has there been a call to use my machine with the differential locked. Even in the front apron. Now that I have the Carlisle X-Trac tires, I never really have any kind of slippage. All this information is based with using her in first gear only. So I am not putting any more added strain or force on her to get the job done faster. To me there is no need for that. I always let her work at a slower steady pace to get the snow in to the machine and out of the machine at a nice steady pace. 

I do feel that slight upgrade when I shovel a 1"-4" storm and I have to put the snow in the backyard. 

I'd go Carlisle X-Trac.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

I was all ready to splurge and buy a Honda HSS929. And now I'm reading about the 2016's having a flawed design and clogging issues. What the ***!? I thought the whole point of dropping $3k on a snowblower was that they are amazing.

I'm concerned about Ariens with tracks. I'm not finding enough reviews of autosteer + tracks to trust them.

So now I'm tempted to get the 28 Deluxe Ariens and hope I can get up my driveway, or maybe the Ariens 24" Platinum EFI. That sounds fun, will fit better in my garage, and is lighter so maybe easier to push up if the wheels are spinning?


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

IMHO: HS928TA, HS1132TA, HS1332TA, HSS1332ATD or if you are Canadian, the Yamaha equivalent.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

matto said:


> I was all ready to splurge and buy a Honda HSS929. And now I'm reading about the 2016's having a flawed design and clogging issues. What the ***!? I thought the whole point of dropping $3k on a snowblower was that they are amazing.


While any snow blower can clog up under 'perfect storm' conditions, I can tell you there are no known 'flawed designs' or known 'clogging' issues with the HSS929; in fact, the wheel version is far and away our best seller. Honda has spent thousands and thousands of hours testing and re-testing the new HSS models on multiple continents, conditions, and snow variations. I sit three rows over from the QIC engineer, attend service action meetings, and can absolutely attest the HSS929 is an excellent machine with a great service history. Yes, there where some HSS models with a transmission flaw last year, but those were corrected, and obviously newer production models do not have that issue. 

You might read a 1/2-dozen postings from people complaining about performance, but I think that is true no matter what forum you read, from snow blowers to coffee machines. Finally, think of the thousands of 'happy' HSS929 owners who don't bother to logon here and boast about their new machine.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> While any snow blower can clog up under 'perfect storm' conditions, I can tell you there are no known 'flawed designs' or known 'clogging' issues with the HSS929; in fact, the wheel version is far and away our best seller. Honda has spent thousands and thousands of hours testing and re-testing the new HSS models on multiple continents, conditions, and snow variations. I sit three rows over from the QIC engineer, attend service action meetings, and can absolutely attest the HSS929 is an excellent machine with a great service history. Yes, there where some HSS models with a transmission flaw last year, but those were corrected, and obviously newer production models do not have that issue.
> 
> You might read a 1/2-dozen postings from people complaining about performance, but I think that is true no matter what forum you read, from snow blowers to coffee machines. Finally, think of the thousands of 'happy' HSS929 owners who don't bother to logon here and boast about their new machine.


Hi Robert, thanks for chiming in. I appreciate it when manufacturers participate in forums like this. It adds value and benefits everyone. 

I also understand the phenomenon where people who are happy often don't post reviews. You have to take online reviews with a grain of salt.

However, this particular issue seems to have a fairly consistent discussion. For example:

1) http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/80705-hss928atd-not-good-wet-snow.html
"I finally parked the Honda and used my 15 years old Ariens 1028. Did not clog once. " 

2) http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...w-snowblowerforum-com-forum-images-smili.html
"It seems the consensus is that the sleeve inside the chute of the 928HSS is the culprit for the clogging. I have never had a machine clog this easy and I am hoping HONDA will develop a fix for it over the summer. " 
and
"the folks at the dealers said it was an issue with the design of the chute. I actually had someone from Honda corporate send me an email saying they were going to have engineering look into the issue"

3) http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1057698-post9.html
"I had such a bad experience with my HSS928 last year with clogging and being underpowered that i soled it on craigs list and bought a 2015 HS928 - From talking to several dealers in the area many are of the opinion that the new HSS has some design issues the dynamics of the chute cause it to clog like crazy."


Are you able to share (via private messaging if that's better) whether this is being looked into, or even has already been fixed? Or is it Honda's position that this is simply a reality of the new design?

Thanks


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

Back to the topic of wheels vs tracks for a hill. I found some comments by Paul on movingsnow that directly contradicts what my local dealer said. Paul said that the wheeled unit Toro would be better for hills than other brands because there's more weight on the wheels. Ariens would be the worst at climbing Hills because more weight is up front.

He also commented that the only tracks unit he recommends is Husqvarna. My dealer set the only tracks units he recommends is Ariens and to avoid Husqvarna tracks.

Also, doesn't less weight over the front mean the front end of the Toro is going to come up? They specifically sell weights to put on the front to keep it down right? 

Ugh, all this contradictory advice is making my head hurt.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

matto said:


> 1) http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/80705-hss928atd-not-good-wet-snow.html
> "I finally parked the Honda and used my 15 years old Ariens 1028. Did not clog once. "


This is the full paragraph:
_Today, the snow on the ground _ *is only about 2 inches. This time, a lot of water as the bottom is mostly water.* _After about 10 minutes of using the Honda, I gave up. The chute kept clogging up. I have to keep clearing the chute. I am going slow and still it is clogging. I finally parked the Honda and used my 15 years old Ariens 1028. Did not clog once._

Clogging with this type of "snow" is possible with any blower even with an impeller kit IMHO.



matto said:


> 2) http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...w-snowblowerforum-com-forum-images-smili.html
> "It seems the consensus is that the sleeve inside the chute of the 928HSS is the culprit for the clogging. I have never had a machine clog this easy and I am hoping HONDA will develop a fix for it over the summer. "
> and
> "the folks at the dealers said it was an issue with the design of the chute. I actually had someone from Honda corporate send me an email saying they were going to have engineering look into the issue"
> ...


Both posts are from a single forum members experience.

:blowerhug:


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

hsblowersfan said:


> Both posts are from a single forum members experience.
> 
> :blowerhug:


Fair enough. So pretend it's all one post. It's still a good one. 

And if you want a third there's this guy 

"The ejection chute is an engineering disaster. It's too small, which means it clogs AND the base exit is not round. Specifically the exchange chamber going from the 2nd blower blade to the discharge chute is rectangular and where this meets the round opening of the discharge chute it causes the heavy snow to fall back, accumulate and clog. The real issue then is that you can't unclog the chute with the supplied stick because it keeps bottoming out on the corners of the rectangular exchange chamber. SO with every clog I would have to shut the engine off, take off my gloves (because the chute is too small for gloved hands) and dig the snow out. To add injury to insult, My knuckles kept hitting the interior retaining bolts leaving me bloodied and numb. No way to clear a driveway." 
http://www.snowblowersdirect.com/Reviews/Honda-HSS724AATD-Snow-Thrower/rv50339.html

These are not one-liner "this toaster sucks" reviews. They're written by experienced folks who own (or have owned) multiple snow blowers, taking the time to write a detailed explanation of the exact same issue.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Matto, take a close look at the Husqvarna ST 327T tracked model. Hydro trans, tracks, cast iron gearbox and auger. All for $2300.00 No it's not a Honda but you get a lot for your money. Don't worry about the belts, that was a few of the new 200 series models which had that problem. Moving Snow.com has put the Husqvarna 300 series thru the wringer and still only the Ariens SHO beats them as far as snow throwing distance.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*matto*: Relax. If you are like me, when you purchase your first snowblower you will have never owned one before and only used one briefly. So, relax, you will make a mistake. You can soften the financial impact of your mistake four ways. 

1. Is there an United Rentals where you live? If so, rent and try both tracked and wheeled.

2. Buy and try used first. I bought a used Ariens ST1032 for $250 (listed on craigslist for $350). Fixed the locking hub with a part on ebay. Replaced the friction disk. Bought 2-link B-bar chains. Bought some plow steel to redo the scraper bar. So let's say at least another $200 put into it. But it wouldn't do what I needed for my dirt sloped driveway. So, I voraciously continued reading here and found a nearly pristine used HS1132TA on craigslist for $1500 and jumped on it before anyone else could. (Dropped everything that day to drive 200 miles round trip to buy it.) And I have never looked back.

By using both machines, I have gained valuable information for my application which I would not have obtained otherwise.

I think I can sell my Ariens ST1032 for at least $250 when I am done tinkering with it.

3. Buy new but buy smart and try it. And if it doesn't seem to be working, sell it quickly take your loss and move on (like one of the other members did with his HSS928AT).

4. Again (and I could be wrong for your application - only you will know) HS928TA, HS1132TA, HS1332TA, HSS1332ATD or if you are Canadian, the Yamaha equivalent.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

matto said:


> Are you able to share (via private messaging if that's better) whether this is being looked into, or even has already been fixed? Or is it Honda's position that this is simply a reality of the new design?
> 
> Thanks


The Quality team that handles issues after the sale looks at hard data from warranty claims, reports from field service reps, extensive discussions and meetings with dealers, and I report postings from online forums. They collect all this information, and apply some sorting and analysis. If, for example, 10,000 units have been in the market for almost a year, and less than 0.2% report specific issues with clogging or low power, it really doesn't even register on the radar. On the other hand, if as an example, a newly-design recoil starter starts to show a 3-5% failure rate / warranty claim, that raises alarms, and a team is assembled to take a hard look at what is really going on and get a countermeasure implemented ASAP. 

Believe me, if there were any statistically significant problems with clogging or underpower, the Quality team would be on the issue immediately. 

FYI, as others have mentioned, the chute and related parts are identical for the HSS724, HSS928, and HSS1332, with the exception of the 2-part articulated upper chute on the HSS1332ATD (electric start). I've yet to read or hear a peep about clogging on the 724 (smaller engine!) or 1332 model.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

E350 said:


> Are you sure you have a 15 percent grade, because if so, I would not want to live or park below your driveway...


I just measured it, both with my bike GPS (which measures elevation gains) and a tape measure + level. My driveway gains 12-13 feet of elevation over 50 feet of driveway so 1:4.1, or 13-ish degrees. It's not constant slope either so some of that is steeper.

It's pretty ridiculous.

What do you guys think: is there any chance a Toro Power Max 1028 would go up this?


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

E350 said:


> 3. Buy new but buy smart and try it. And if it doesn't seem to be working, sell it quickly take your loss and move on (like one of the other members did with his HSS928AT).


Not a bad idea. I had been looking for Honda units but not finding any. But I did just find a few Toro's on craigslist.


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## Hanky (Nov 14, 2014)

Zavie said:


> Matto, take a close look at the Husqvarna ST 327T tracked model. Hydro trans, tracks, cast iron gearbox and auger. All for $2300.00 No it's not a Honda but you get a lot for your money. Don't worry about the belts, that was a few of the new 200 series models which had that problem. Moving Snow.com has put the Husqvarna 300 series thru the wringer and still only the Ariens SHO beats them as far as snow throwing distance.


This Husqvarna St 327 T would be my choice. I have a Toro I think it would work but TRACKS would for sure.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

Hanky said:


> This Husqvarna St 327 T would be my choice.


I just can't get past the reliability concerns I'm seeing with he Husqvarna. And essentially zero reviews of the tracks. It could possibly be a great machine, but I'm not willing to be a beta tester.

Right now it's a tossup between Toro Power Max 1028 and Honda HSS928. If I believed the Toro would get up the hill I'd buy it.

I went and played with an HSS928 in person today. I didn't drive it, just tried to see how movable it is while off. It was really quite nice. With the handles pulled up it rolls relatively easy. And the continuous variable tilt is really sweet.

(BTW, while googling I found two more instances of people complaining their new Hondas clog way too easily :icon-deadhorse: OK I'll stop)


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

No keep beating the horse. Or more accurately reporting and linking what you find. Only when a manufacturer gets a sufficient number of complaints or a ding in their reputation will they take a change seriously. 

No, IMHO no wheeled machine will make it up your driveway at least not while blowing (which means downhill blowing).

I am sorry are you in Canada? If not bite the bullet on the HSS1332AT (easy for me to spend your money) but again IMHO you will never be sorry.

*Edit*: If you are in Canada, the Yamaha 10 28 tracked looks like a great machine in the size of the HSS928AT.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

E350 said:


> No keep beating the horse. Or more accurately reporting and linking what you find. Only when a manufacturer gets a sufficient number of complaints or a ding in their reputation will they take a change seriously.


Here are 6 complaints of the 2016 HSS models (vairous sizes) being surprisingly bad in wet snow (5 snowblowerforums members, and the 1 review from snowblowers direct.)


vinnyNH http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/865305-post1.html
obthedog http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/1009994-post1.html
Bob_s http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/826194-post3.html
Chalky45 http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/990889-post3.html
johnd http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/992081-post28.html
Craig C. from snowblowersdirect.com review of Honda HSS724AATD

There were admittedly folks in those threads chiming in saying, "Mine works great", but I'd say it was about 1-1 with the complaints, or around 50-50. 

Some hypothesized that there may have been a problem with these people's machines (low RPMs, for example)



> I am sorry are you in Canada? If not bite the bullet on the HSS1332AT (easy for me to spend your money) but again IMHO you will never be sorry.


It would be too big for my garage, and won't fit through the door of my shed for summer storage.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I'd also consider what sort of snow you usually deal with in a season. If you deal with the slushier stuff, with a high moisture content, that re-freze's, then you may need the additional traction. But if your clime is drier, and the snow is fluffier, then the newer tire designs may suffice. 

Understand that unless the tracked machine has steering, that you will have to muscle it around.


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