# Toro POWER CLEAR model 38584 (aka 221QE) ... with Electric Starter (an option on this model)



## john.canuck2 (Oct 24, 2021)

I have the machine described in the subject. The machine itself has worked fine for years ... including the Electric Starter. But yesterday after a snowmageddon type snowfall, when I tried to engage the Electric Starter with its switch I couldn't. (Fortunately I was able to get it started after a while the pull cord to do the job. It becomes harder and harder when you get into the mid 70's age range).

So now I'm trying to figure out what the problem is with the Electric Starter's SWITCH. It has always been very difficult to actually "throw" it to engage the motor, but yesterday it physically felt like it was actually broken.

I've looked at the Parts Manual for my machine but I haven't been able to see a reference to the Electric Starter's SWITCH (maybe because it's an option on the model?).

If anybody could point me to a link to the SWITCH part #, I'd appreciate it.


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## LenD (Nov 17, 2020)

You need separate parts catalogue

Item 6 -switch


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## john.canuck2 (Oct 24, 2021)

john.canuck2 said:


> I have the machine described in the subject. The machine itself has worked fine for years ... including the Electric Starter. But yesterday after a snowmageddon type snowfall, when I tried to engage the Electric Starter with its switch I couldn't. (Fortunately I was able to get it started after a while the pull cord to do the job. It becomes harder and harder when you get into the mid 70's age range).
> 
> So now I'm trying to figure out what the problem is with the Electric Starter's SWITCH. It has always been very difficult to actually "throw" it to engage the motor, but yesterday it physically felt like it was actually broken.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion, but that's the Parts Manual I've already looked at. The "SWITCH' that's described on that page, is simply the Switch that you turn from OFF to ON when you want to actually start the machine >>manually<< using the PULL CORD. I guess all it does is put the SPARK PLUG either into or out of the starting circuit.

That switch doesn't actually cause the ELECTRIC STARTER motor to engage and start to spin the engine ... instead of manually pulling the PULL CORD.


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## LenD (Nov 17, 2020)

Ah, I see. Still looking but you're not the only one it seems.


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

They don't sell the switch separately, nor would it be considered a user serviceable part.

You might be able to get to the physical switch inside the housing if you can get the halves to separate:










After that, you may be able to find an industry-standard switch from manufacturers like Cherry.


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## john.canuck2 (Oct 24, 2021)

db130 said:


> They don't sell the switch separately, nor would it be considered a user serviceable part.
> 
> You might be able to get to the physical switch inside the housing if you can get the halves to separate:
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for your suggestion *DB130*. Your comments make sense to me based on what I've been able to find so far, which is basically nothing.

By the way, where did you get the image you posted. Is it from some sort of Service Manual you have a link too? It looks like something I want to get a copy of.

I'll check to see what my dealer's shop might suggest, but I suspect the result will be that I'll give myself a project -> TO DO what you've suggested and I'll plan to complete it before next season 

For my purposes, the machine itself has been extremely nimble, powerful and reliable. I originally bought it to use in the winter of 2010. (It was on sale. Likely because TORO was trying to clear the last of their *2 cycle* engine inventory and I specifically wanted a 2 cycle vs 4 cycle anyway). I've just replaced normal wear and tear parts which is to be expected. (Rotor paddle blades & drive belt as needed). Even in yesterday's snowmageddon event in Toronto, it did what it needed to do once I started it with the pull cord.

Thanks again.


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

john.canuck2 said:


> By the way, where did you get the image you posted.


I did a google image search for "221QE electric starter" Once I got the part number, 801410, I found a listing for a used one on eBay.

I've owned a CCR 2450, CCR 3650, and a bunch of Snow Commanders, so I've had to remove the electric starter from a few of them to replace the starter gear, but never the switch itself. 

If you want to take a crack at this repair (pun intended), it looks like the two halves will come apart if you push in those tabs.










Post a picture of what the actual switch looks like inside.


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## john.canuck2 (Oct 24, 2021)

db130 said:


> I did a google image search for "221QE electric starter" Once I got the part number, 801410, I found a listing for a used one on eBay.
> 
> I've owned a CCR 2450, CCR 3650, and a bunch of Snow Commanders, so I've had to remove the electric starter from a few of them to replace the starter gear, but never the switch itself.
> 
> ...


Wow. You're making it sound even easier than I thought. Now that I have a better view of its actual "button", I can understand why it always felt so hard to use it. It's hidden (/ protected) on the underside of the actual machine's control panel by a 2nd rubber cover ... and I could never feel whether it was a "*button*" that needed to be *pushed* or a *toggle* that needed to be *thrown*. It always struck me that a toggle kind of motion worked, but seeing the picture it seems more like a normal push button, which actually makes more sense. I'll eventually see.

Anyway you've given me a great start at understanding what I'm going to need to do. Thanks!

PS: As long as the PULL CORD doesn't become to cantankerous this season, it's still going to be a future TO DO.


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## john.canuck2 (Oct 24, 2021)

john.canuck2 said:


> Wow. You're making it sound even easier than I thought. Now that I have a better view of its actual "button", I can understand why it always felt so hard to use it. It's hidden (/ protected) on the underside of the actual machine's control panel by a 2nd rubber cover ... and I could never feel whether it was a "*button*" that needed to be *pushed* or a *toggle* that needed to be *thrown*. It always struck me that a toggle kind of motion worked, but seeing the picture it seems more like a normal push button, which actually makes more sense. I'll eventually see.
> 
> Anyway you've given me a great start at understanding what I'm going to need to do. Thanks!
> 
> PS: As long as the PULL CORD doesn't become to cantankerous this season, it's still going to be a future TO DO.


I was able to take my "research" a little further using a link to a Service Manual of *old* Toro single stage machines (but at least machines that might have instructions, parts etc. that were possibly carried forward into later machines). This is a link to the Service Manual on the SCRIBD site (I used its free membership for 30 days option to join). Toro Single Stage Snow Blower Manual | PDF | Carburetor | Gasoline.

In this manual I was able to find what I'll likely see when I get under the covers of my machine and snap open the picture you posted of the switch that engages the Electric Starter (see figure 156 below). At least I now know I'll have something to do before next winter comes.


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

The Toro Snow Commander service manual is available from Toro which uses a very similar R-tek engine



https://www.toro.com/getpub/22449




















Easy enough to test, although I'm less certain about being able to find an industry-standard replacement. Good luck!


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## john.canuck2 (Oct 24, 2021)

Thank you "GOD".

The phrase "







" gives me a lot of hope. In fact, it might even solve my problem without even doing *anything*.

Since I started this thread the other day I haven't had a need to use the machine again. Since it was bitterly cold the day I had the problem, I'm not ignoring the possibility that my thumb's strength, dexterity, etc. was actually doing what* the switch *expected *me* to be doing to *it*. (Unfortunately there's no known fix for a normal / dumb END USER).

I've certainly got enough info now to see what's what. Is there anything you *can't* find a solution for, for TORO machines?


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

I'm not sure of you rxplanation of ghe initial problem. Did the starter motor do nothing when the switch was pressed or did the motor not engage the flywheel like a bad solenoid on a car? I have the same machine and the electric start is hit or miss. It always makes an electrical connection but doesn't always engage the gears. Especially in the cold. It reacts just like a car starter with a bad solenoid but will engage intermittently. Hope you figure it out. I think I might try using the electric start more often as it could be just a matter of dormancy.


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