# Front weight



## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

So I purchased a Ariens Professional 28 EFI and the first time using it I felt the the front would want to easily ride up onto packed snow. This was considerably more then the 30" Craftsman it replaced. So I looked into adding the weight kit and was shocked on the price of just a piece of metal. I saw that it was pretty much a 1/2" plate. Just happened to have a 1/2" x 26 x 12" in the garage. Just had to cut the width.
So made it 5" x 26". Of course I didnt weigh it until after I had it all painted. Weighs out at 18lbs. Do you think that is too heavey for :

1. The auger housing itself
2. For hanging on just two bolts from the case?

I know I can always lay it on top of the housing, but is it just going to be too heavy to damage anything?


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

made mine also for my toro only it weighs double what tors dose , 30 ver 15 man can it hold the machine down


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

jr27236 said:


> So I purchased a Ariens Professional 28 EFI and the first time using it I felt the the front would want to easily ride up onto packed snow. This was considerably more then the 30" Craftsman it replaced. So I looked into adding the weight kit and was shocked on the price of just a piece of metal. I saw that it was pretty much a 1/2" plate. Just happened to have a 1/2" x 26 x 12" in the garage. Just had to cut the width.
> So made it 5" x 26". Of course I didnt weigh it until after I had it all painted. Weighs out at 18lbs. Do you think that is too heavey for :
> 
> 1. The auger housing itself
> ...


Why don't you cut the darn thing in half, grind an edge on one long edge and mount them in place of your bucket skids?
Now you have robust skids which serve double duty as front weight. 
Now I'm gonna tell you why your new Ariens rides up and the craftsman didn't: The material used to construct your Ariens bucket is much lighter that the components used to construct your Craftsman. Thinner gauge materials don't why as much as the old construction. 
So, the joke's on you.
You paid top dollar for a new Ariens made from lighter materials and then they were gonna charge you how much for a bar to return the weight they omitted by using lighter weight materials?
And as you note, all that weight is going on top of a bucket that has been made thinner and thinner over the years. Back in the day, that weight was disbursed between the bucket and augur.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Agree with captchas, 18 lbs? No way. My Ariens made John Deere has a factory weight, not sure of the amount.

I have an old Murray Craftsman 10hp with the side "L" levers, it's heavy and a beast but really well balanced in the handlebars though the weight is on the front. That's very good for the EOD because of the larger impeller, thicker auger blades and housing, it's the weight. It's dangerous to operate but if you cut away some of the metal on the side of the housing to expose the auger, that will help with the EOD because of chewing and less riding up.


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## BazookaJoe (Oct 6, 2019)

Rooskie said:


> Why don't you cut the darn thing in half, grind an edge on one long edge and mount them in place of your bucket skids?
> Now you have robust skids which serve double duty as front weight.
> Now I'm gonna tell you why your new Ariens rides up and the craftsman didn't: The material used to construct your Ariens bucket is much lighter that the components used to construct your Craftsman. Thinner gauge materials don't why as much as the old construction.
> So, the joke's on you.
> ...



NOT this ^^^

Front end weight is determined by the position of the axles in comparison to the center of mass of the machine.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

BazookaJoe said:


> NOT this ^^^
> 
> Front end weight is determined by the position of the axles in comparison to the center of mass of the machine.


I agree with you on that. Yes new machine are made cheaper to gain more profit. The craftsman was a 2012 and I personally never seen a Craftsman that was ever built like a snowbird. I compared the two before making such an invertment in the Ariens and it is definitely of thicker gauge metal then the Craftsman. I believe as @BazookaJoe had mentioned in this case the axle placement is what creates the almost zero balance with the front housing and rear engine/handle weight.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Agree with captchas, 18 lbs? No way. My Ariens made John Deere has a factory weight, not sure of the amount.
> 
> I have an old Murray Craftsman 10hp with the side "L" levers, it's heavy and a beast but really well balanced in the handlebars though the weight is on the front. That's very good for the EOD because of the larger impeller, thicker auger blades and housing, it's the weight. It's dangerous to operate but if you cut away some of the metal on the side of the housing to expose the auger, that will help with the EOD because of chewing and less riding up.


Are you saying its too heavy?

Also as for cutting the housing, thats not going to happen in this case. Thats how the old machines were such as the 70's snowbird I had. Thing was a heavy animal, I gave it to my brother who modded the gov and held it wide open throttle. The thing had flames blowing out the muffler like a jet engine and when he ran over the giant Sunday paper it made it look like confetti on New Years. Never saw something so funny in my life although it was dangerous as hell. I still laugh thinking about it. You couldnt kill it lol.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

I made four 10lb weights for my 24" Ariens and I've got two of them on it so far and considered adding a third.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

ChrisJ said:


> I made four 10lb weights for my 24" Ariens and I've got two of them on it so far and considered adding a third.


Thats a lot of weight. Do you have them all on the housing?


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

jr27236 said:


> Thats a lot of weight. Do you have them all on the housing?


The two are bolted to the top of the bucket.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

You can drill a hole in the top of the auger housing and put a 1" threaded rod, nutted underneath, then slip on round weights. You can remove the weights, add or delete some as necessary.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

Anyone a math wiz that can determine the sq in. Weight of this stock by the measuements provided? I could cut a square inch out of the left over I have and weigh that but then I ruin that piece for possibly nanother weight


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Why do you want to reduce it if you haven't even tried it yet?!


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

ChrisJ said:


> The two are bolted to the top of the bucket.


so are mine.held off the bucket by 4 plastic spacers 3/8 high , steel yard scrap bin price


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

jr27236 said:


> Anyone a math wiz that can determine the sq in. Weight of this stock by the measuements provided? I could cut a square inch out of the left over I have and weigh that but then I ruin that piece for possibly nanother weight


Your metal is 5"x26"x0.5" so 65 cubic inches that weighs 18 lbs so approx 3.6 cubic inches per lb. You would need to cut 1.44" from the 5"x0.5" stock to have a 1 lb piece.


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## peterk (Apr 30, 2014)

It is not rocket science!!!! It does not need to go to the moon! GET A GRIP! I once bought an Ariens, maybe 32/10 or 32/12???? It had 2 large brake rotors bolted to the bucket! Not pretty but worked well, and for me, free. That is what I use. Add 1, or 2 or whatever you want!


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Sometimes this forum makes my head hurt..

No offense @captchas


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

peterk said:


> It is not rocket science!!!! It does not need to go to the moon! GET A GRIP! I once bought an Ariens, maybe 32/10 or 32/12???? It had 2 large brake rotors bolted to the bucket! Not pretty but worked well, and for me, free. That is what I use. Add 1, or 2 or whatever you want!


Woooooo, take it easy. No one needs to get a grip. I asked a question and started a legitimate conversation about something people do. I made the piece and was shocked at how much it weighed over what I thought it was going to weigh. Yes its not rocket science, but its also not something I want to do to damage a new machine. Thanks for your input.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

Town said:


> Your metal is 5"x26"x0.5" so 65 cubic inches that weighs 18 lbs so approx 3.6 cubic inches per lb. You would need to cut 1.44" from the 5"x0.5" stock to have a 1 lb piece.


Thank you for that. I had my friend work the math for me also. Lol. It really made a simple project feel like it became an enginerring design. I do have a habit of over thinking things, this might be moving to the top of that list.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

ChrisJ said:


> Why do you want to reduce it if you haven't even tried it yet?!


Your right about that. Just waiting for the paint to set up more. Figured there was a reason why the oem weight was only 10 lbs.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Just throwing it out there. Ariens shifted the axle position forward a couple years ago to reduce auto turn issues. Hence the light bucket. The pro model is a heavy machine, but a little too neutral balanced.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

drmerdp said:


> Just throwing it out there. Ariens shifted the axle position forward a couple years ago to reduce auto turn issues. Hence the light bucket. The pro model is a heavy machine, but a little too neutral balanced.


Im guessing that happened after my 1999 machine was built? And I feel 20lbs extra is still a little light for my use.


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## jwmatt (Jan 25, 2021)

jr27236 said:


> Anyone a math wiz that can determine the sq in. Weight of this stock by the measuements provided? I could cut a square inch out of the left over I have and weigh that but then I ruin that piece for possibly nanother weight


Just google hot rolled steel and the given dimensions. It will you give the weight.
.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

jwmatt said:


> Just google hot rolled steel and the given dimensions. It will you give the weight.
> .


Good tip, ill check that out.



drmerdp said:


> Just throwing it out there. Ariens shifted the axle position forward a couple years ago to reduce auto turn issues. Hence the light bucket. The pro model is a heavy machine, but a little too neutral balanced.


Didnt take the auto turn steering into account. Thanks for that, im gonna bolt it up and see how it is.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

jr27236 said:


> So I purchased a Ariens Professional 28 EFI and the first time using it I felt the the front would want to easily ride up onto packed snow. This was considerably more then the 30" Craftsman it replaced. So I looked into adding the weight kit and was shocked on the price of just a piece of metal. I saw that it was pretty much a 1/2" plate. Just happened to have a 1/2" x 26 x 12" in the garage. Just had to cut the width.
> So made it 5" x 26". Of course I didnt weigh it until after I had it all painted. Weighs out at 18lbs. Do you think that is too heavey for :
> 
> 1. The auger housing itself
> ...


Nope, I run 2 12lb weights on my 80's large frame cub cadet. Put a set of roller skids on it and you wont even know they are there.


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## 140278 (Aug 27, 2020)

toro's are no better, the power maxes are very light in the front end ,with out extra weight they do ride up very easily


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

drmerdp notes an even bigger factor than weight. Looks like Euclid was right, after all.🤗

As they could be set-up like round skid-wheels, I like the brake rotor idea mentioned here to help these newer, light-weight buckets. The rotors answer two needs of the machine: More weight, protection for the lower bucket and it sets the badly-needed extra weight close the the ground and not on top of a bucket made of admittedly lighter-weight metal. 
It just seems counter-intuitive to put that much weight on top of the bucket. It causes more flexing to the welds holding the bucket together.
My ol' 1971 Ariens, unsafe as all get out according to many, doesn't have a problem with front end lift-up. I am using the armorskids with the skinny end leading. I do have to provide gentle support underneath the handlebars if I insist on a close-to-the-ground cut, but the trade-off is I can do my gravel driveway with just a minor push down on the handlebars. Perfectly balanced for whatever may come. Except bricks. 😕 
Here we are at the water, folks. Anyone thirsty?
Or am I at this point?








Let's go out and enjoy the nice weather.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

I can say from owning this machine and others from older modern machines to real old hard wheeled snow birds. That this machine (Ariens Pro 28) is absolutely made of heavier gauge metal then the other modern machines, including the one this replaced. The person who is most spot on is @drmerdp stating the placement of the axle. All machines have riden up on top of packed snow that Ive used and of course the more nose weight is going to counter that. Anyway enough with all that and here is the final product installed.


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## farmer52 (Dec 27, 2020)

I made a weight using 1-3/8" square steel stock 26" long. The weight is 11#. Had it powder coated and attached with SS hardware with nylon washers between the bar, housing, and fender washers.

This was discussed previously. Do a SEARCH.









Ariens bucket bounces up and down... why?


Hi guys! I don’t even know how to explain this properly but using my brand new Ariens Deluxe 28 this morning I noticed that in some spots the bucket nose would bounce up and down leaving an uneven terrain behind. What is going on and what am I doing wrong? My driveway is gravel and speed didn’t...




www.snowblowerforum.com


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

jr27236 said:


> I can say from owning this machine and others from older modern machines to real old hard wheeled snow birds. That this machine (Ariens Pro 28) is absolutely made of heavier gauge metal then the other modern machines, including the one this replaced. The person who is most spot on is @drmerdp stating the placement of the axle. All machines have riden up on top of packed snow that Ive used and of course the more nose weight is going to counter that. Anyway enough with all that and here is the final product installed.


You got the 'Honda Fever' except this strain is Orange.
I had it for Mustangs.
I had it for Lincolns.
I had it for 32' Trojan Yachts.
I had it for F-150's.
I had it for Lawn-Boy lawnmowers.
I had it for Honda Lawnmowers and most recently, their snowblowers.
You've drooled over this machine for years. You paid dollars beaucoup for it.
You get it and it needs weight installed in the front to properly do it's job, but still you're defending it. 
It's not your fault, everyone does it. Let's wait until there are a few scratches on the inside of that shiny bucket before drawing conclusions, shall we?
I did the same for a Honda lawnmower, even while it was leaving a line of grass uncut. ('If you go in first gear, it makes a great cut') or part prices ('By spending this money for these parts now, it will cut problem-free for years'). Both equivocations. My old Troy-bilt with a B&S that I got for free cuts better. 

But it seems we all need to learn those lessons individually. 
Over the years, as the wants come and go, I've come to some firm conclusions based on decades of use:
The best snowblower is an old Ariens. Looking at all the woe expressed in these pages with newer machines, how can one reasonably conclude otherwise?
The best automobile ever made in my era is a Crown Vic or Mercury Marquis. Right next to them are the 1970's era Buick's. I'd still take a 1972 Electra 225 if I could find one.
The best truck ever made was the F-150's built in the 1980's. Straight 6, carburetor, manual trans, 4 wheel drive. Nothing is easier to work on that sits on wheels.
The criteria used to make any final decision is simple. The machine that performs it's intended purpose efficiently, economically and reliably is the one to choose. 
Any other criteria is sophistry.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

Rooskie said:


> You got the 'Honda Fever' except this strain is Orange.
> I had it for Mustangs.
> I had it for Lincolns.
> I had it for 32' Trojan Yachts.
> ...


Lol, I did have the fever. I got caught up in buying this with admittingly all the unnecessary bells and whistles that I hope are not problematic in the future. But this IS a step up from what I was using for sure. It is definitely built better by comparison. Was it worth it?? I will have to tell you that when it throws or not the EOD slop and I dont have and I'm not making igloo blocks. Unfortionately for me, when I get the bug I go out and buy it, sometimes to regret. Appreciate all the input guys.


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## Smokie1 (Sep 17, 2019)

jr27236 said:


> Lol, I did have the fever. I got caught upbin buying this with admittingly all the unnecessary bells and whistles that I hope are not problematic in the future. But this IS a step up from what I was using for sure. It is definitely built better by comparison. Was it worth it?? I will have to tell you that when it throws or not the EOD slop and I dont have and I'm not making igloo blocks. Unfortionately for me, when I get the bug I go out and buy it, sometimes to regret. Appreciate all the input guys.





jr27236 said:


> I can say from owning this machine and others from older modern machines to real old hard wheeled snow birds. That this machine (Ariens Pro 28) is absolutely made of heavier gauge metal then the other modern machines, including the one this replaced. The person who is most spot on is @drmerdp stating the placement of the axle. All machines have riden up on top of packed snow that Ive used and of course the more nose weight is going to counter that. Anyway enough with all that and here is the final product installed. [
> 
> 
> jr27236 said:
> ...


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## Smokie1 (Sep 17, 2019)

I agree that axel placement has a lot to do with EOD performance. I have a 2020 24” Plat SHO that weighs just under 300 Lbs. I also have an early 80’s Toro 824, and an early 90’s 8 hp Simplicity. I have to fight the older machines much more that I do the newer SHO in EOD situations. Maybe it has something to do with the auto turn? The SHO is definitely balanced better, and much easier to maneuver than the locked axel machines. I’m guessing the older machines are pretty close to the new one in weight, and definitely more bucket heavy. The Toro has a drum auger, and the simplicity has a smooth surface auger which I think contribute to riding up as well. The Airens has a jagged edge on the auger and I think that helps the machine bite into harder/packed snow, and not ride up as well.


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

Do we seriously have 33 posts to bolt on a 18 lb sheet of metal?


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

oneboltshort said:


> Do we seriously have 33 posts to bolt on a 18 lb sheet of metal?


Yep.
Pretty much.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

oneboltshort said:


> Do we seriously have 33 posts to bolt on a 18 lb sheet of metal?


I agree... only 33, I thought there would be more, it’s why I like this forum.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

37 lol


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## Midnightpromises (Jan 27, 2020)

Can't you just have one of the grandkids ride on top of the bucket?


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## LenD (Nov 17, 2020)

Midnightpromises said:


> Can't you just have one of the grandkids ride on top of the bucket?


Trouble with that is they like to dangle their feet in front. His nickname is now "Stumpy" 😉


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

Midnightpromises said:


> Can't you just have one of the grandkids ride on top of the bucket?


Maybe the wife's pocketbook on top?


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

I wouldn't be concerned about the heavier weight, the pro has a more substantial/heavier gauge bucket than platinum and Deluxe models, the side panels are thicker. I have the Ariens 10lb. weight kit on my Platinum 24 SHO it helps a little but the machine will still ride up on a packed town plow pile at the EOD. More weight on that larger machine can't hurt.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

Cardo111 said:


> I wouldn't be concerned about the heavier weight, the pro has a more substantial/heavier gauge bucket than platinum and Deluxe models, the side panels are thicker. I have the Ariens 10lb. weight kit on my Platinum 24 SHO it helps a little but the machine will still ride up on a packed town plow pile at the EOD. More weight on that larger machine can't hurt.


Thanks @Cardo111


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## laser3kw (Feb 11, 2018)

If you do decide to add a weight bar like shown in the first post, install at least a 1/4" (6mm) spacer between the bar and the bucket. That will help prevent rusting due to trapped moisture. A stack of washers is better than nothing. Wood is ok, but, it holds moisture and could start rust. Go hunting in your favority harware store and find some nice plastic spacers.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

I make plastic washers by cutting up plastic butter dish lids, and drill a hole in them.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

With the 20 lbs on my 1999 machine my only concern at all has been the handles to be honest.
Because of fighting with it in packed snow I know they're flexing, a lot.

But, that's nothing that can't be fixed, beefed up etc.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

laser3kw said:


> If you do decide to add a weight bar like shown in the first post, install at least a 1/4" (6mm) spacer between the bar and the bucket. That will help prevent rusting due to trapped moisture. A stack of washers is better than nothing. Wood is ok, but, it holds moisture and could start rust. Go hunting in your favority harware store and find some nice plastic spacers.


Yeah I was thinking about using the plastics washers inbetween and also drilling 2 more mounting holes to secure it better to the bucket.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> With the 20 lbs on my 1999 machine my only concern at all has been the handles to be honest.
> Because of fighting with it in packed snow I know they're flexing, a lot.
> 
> But, that's nothing that can't be fixed, beefed up etc.


Another modification to accommodate a modification.....
STOP THE MADNESS!



Midnightpromises said:


> Can't you just have one of the grandkids ride on top of the bucket?


This is what I was going to suggest to the 'forward-weight' gang.
With the weight totals they're talking about here, they made need TWO grandchildren on the front!



Smokie1 said:


> I agree that axel placement has a lot to do with EOD performance. I have a 2020 24” Plat SHO that weighs just under 300 Lbs. I also have an early 80’s Toro 824, and an early 90’s 8 hp Simplicity. I have to fight the older machines much more that I do the newer SHO in EOD situations. Maybe it has something to do with the auto turn? The SHO is definitely balanced better, and much easier to maneuver than the locked axel machines. I’m guessing the older machines are pretty close to the new one in weight, and definitely more bucket heavy. The Toro has a drum auger, and the simplicity has a smooth surface auger which I think contribute to riding up as well. The Airens has a jagged edge on the auger and I think that helps the machine bite into harder/packed snow, and not ride up as well.


Wouldn't you think that big toro drum is actually an impediment to getting snow in the impeller? Especially in hard pack? That's why I've stayed away from one thus far.
Ol' Betsy ain't got no teeth, much like her owner, and neither of us has problems chewing snow!


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I go back to my 2 ideas, a large diameter threaded rod to stack weight lifting weights, you can change the weights easily for different conditions, and easily remove them when it's not necessary, or a wooden box bolted and put various weights of dumbbells in it.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

EUREKA!
I have stumbled on the ultimate answer for the front-weight problem you guys are having, perhaps two versions:

1) Convert your snowblower to an electric motor!
Then you could mount car batteries on top of your bucket for the needed weight!
WIN for the environment.
WIN for your neighbor's peace.
WIN for the extra weight issue!
No more carb adjustments! No more surging!
-OR-
2) Go Propane and mount a 40 gallon LPG tank on top of the bucket.
Great weight distribution, easier starting in the winter, less pollution, oil lasts longer.
Again, taking a need and using it to improve the overall condition.
Gentlemen, you have your cure.

Either that, or go to Goodwill to get a couple old car seats that fit your grandkids and mount those on your bucket.
That way, when you're not blowing, the kids can relieve the weight on the bucket. 
Important note: Mount kid seats facing backwards to lessen opportunities for tragedy.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Rooskie said:


> Another modification to accommodate a modification.....
> STOP THE MADNESS!


I have the machine to accomplish a job I need done.
If the machine needs modifications to better do the job, it needs modifications.

I'm not sure why you feel this is a problem.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> I have the machine to accomplish a job I need done.
> If the machine needs modifications to better do the job, it needs modifications.
> 
> I'm not sure why you feel this is a problem.


Then read my posts on this thread a little more carefully, if you really want to know. The problem is evident. At least to those who do not own machines which require 'modifications'.
My 'Eureka' post above describes 'modifications' that cover your issues AND improves the unit. I thought you weren't averse to mods. What do you want from me for free?

By your own criteria, the machine you have acquired appears an incorrect choice. It does not accomplish the job you need done without modifications, '...to better do the job'. Other machines, many over a half century-old, do not need any 'modifications to better do the job'. 
If a snowblower requires modifications, it was not properly engineered and designed in the first place.
The conditions in which a snowblower operates is not an unknown engineering mystery. Everyone knows what it has to do.

As drplmrp has noted, Euclid solved the real problem THOUSANDS of years ago. 'Give me a big enough lever and I will move the world.' Move the wheels back and Euclid will take care of the rest. Past Ariens engineers knew this. The latter-day Ariens engineers who wanted to make 'Auto-Turn' work moved the wheels forward, ignoring why the wheels were back there in the first place. So to enjoy the auto-turn 'improvement' the wheels were moved forward. Now the blower floats. Solution? Sell weight to put on the front! Someone in Ariens marketing department bought a 75' yacht with the bonus money he made that day.

And so the story goes. The History Channel has a plethora of examples like these, some with much more disastrous outcomes. 

If you garner no more information from this post, Chris, please read: 'Superiority' by Arthur C. Clarke. You will be amazed how this 36-page short story will explain it all.

So I'm carping about Ariens selling machines for thousands of dollars to a public who makes a large investment believing that their expense will meet their every snowblowing need.
And when it doesn't, they sell modifications. Like recalls, they should at least be free, doncha think?
Would Ariens have sold you that machine if they told you you'll have to place weight on it to handle EOD first?
Of course not.
I hope this missive explains how, why and where I take issue.
Perhaps I should copy this and put it at the bottom of all the 'front weight' posts that are on this site already and perhaps end it, once and fer all.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Rooskie said:


> Then read my posts on this thread a little more carefully, if you really want to know. The problem is evident. At least to those who do not own machines which require 'modifications'.
> My 'Eureka' post above describes 'modifications' that cover your issues AND improves the unit. I thought you weren't averse to mods. What do you want from me for free?
> 
> By your own criteria, the machine you have acquired appears an incorrect choice. It does not accomplish the job you need done without modifications, '...to better do the job'. Other machines, many over a half century-old, do not need any 'modifications to better do the job'.
> ...


I'm sorry I must have missed that part of it.
In my case, my machine is from 1999 and doesn't have anything fancy like auto turn. As far as I know, it's the same basic design they had used since the late 1970s.

Also in my case, I mostly deal with extremely packed snow mixed with salt from the plows. No off the shelf walk behind blower is going to work very well for me, and I have space requirements such as can't be bigger than a 24" machine.

As far as what Ariens has done on newer machines vs adding weights etc I have no input.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

My friend had to put ladder bars on his 69 camaro to prevent it from doing a wheelie. Maybe I can mount a set of those on each aide of my machine to prevent the bucket from coming up?


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

jr27236 said:


> My friend had to put ladder bars on his 69 camaro to prevent it from doing a wheelie. Maybe I can mount a set of those on each aide of my machine to prevent the bucket from coming up?


Yes. You can mount them on a spring-loaded lockable hitch that can be operated with your foot, much like a Honda.
Capital suggestion!
You inadvertently prove my point: Modification upon modification only adds to more modification.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Rooskie said:


> Yes. You can mount them on a spring-loaded lockable hitch that can be operated with your foot, much like a Honda.
> Capital suggestion!
> You inadvertently prove my point: Modification upon modification only adds to more modification.


I'm curious,

Do you believe every product you buy is engineered perfectly and there's no way to improve anything?
My initial impression was you just disliked the later Ariens blowers due to changes they made but now I'm confused.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

Rooskie said:


> Modification upon modification only adds to more modification.



Design is rarely finished, everything can be better.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> I'm curious,
> 
> Do you believe every product you buy is engineered perfectly and there's no way to improve anything? NO.
> My initial impression was you just disliked the later Ariens blowers due to changes they made but now I'm confused.


I do engage in a vast amount of research and due diligence before purchasing anything, for the most part. My missus laughs about it.
EVERYONE believes every product they buy is designed properly.
Who would buy, else-wise?
Like some who come to these pages, I seek the good and bad of any design I consider.
I would graciously assume you do the same?
And repeatedly reading about this problem on this site, under numerous posts, I can flatly say I will never buy a unit that has this design failure, would you? So, exposing the flaw helps everybody who comes to the Snowblower Forum avoid making the same mistake. A valuable public service saving many thousands of dollars.
PS, I would take one if I saw it sitting alongside the road for free. I would polish it up and sell it cheap. I will explain the shortcomings of the unit clearly. But if it's nice and shiny and cheap, someone's gonna buy it anyway.

Lemme guess. You haven't read 'Superiority' yet, have you? The question, 'Do you believe every product you buy is engineered perfectly and there's no way to improve anything?' is addressed. And the answer, in the story, describes how intergalactic systems fall. Too much 'improvement', too fast, allows an older, established technology to overtake the 'latest thing'. Here's a link: Short Story - Superiority - by Arthur C. Clarke
I've led you to the water. I've asked you to drink. It is beyond my abilities to compel you to quench your thirst and read the story.

When you buy new, you're taking a crap-shoot, for sure. In my twenties, I bought one one of the first Mustang II's that had a V-8 in it. A Boss 302 fastback. Only 10,000 miles. What could go wrong? If I took the time to lay out the rest of the story, you'd see the beginnings of what I espouse today.

Compare to the current discussion: We have many and wide reports the front end of certain Ariens are 'too light'. But we've all come to the conclusion that it is, in fact, a basic design failure which requires weight be added to a design where none was planned for. A basic application of Euclidian geometry, known for thousands of years, lays the design failure bare.
One would reasonably think, being made aware of the design failure of a certain unit, those who are looking will not consider these models and those that have them will strive to shed them for a better-designed unit.



trellis said:


> Design is rarely finished, everything can be better.


You're right. 'Build a better mousetrap....'


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

Rooskie said:


> We have many and wide reports the front end of certain Ariens are 'too light'.


Someone mentioned the need to deal with packed snow, ice and salt from the plows. I have a similar situation and I am very happy with the weight that I’ve added.

It’s possible that the Ariens snowblowers are designed correctly, it can handle nice “pretty” snow in the colder areas AND if needed it is designed to add weight for the “non-pretty” snow situations? Why have a front heavy snowblower if you don’t need it.


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## cruisefor2 (Feb 12, 2013)

jr27236 said:


> Anyone a math wiz that can determine the sq in. Weight of this stock by the measuements provided? I could cut a square inch out of the left over I have and weigh that but then I ruin that piece for possibly nanother weight


Steel weighs 0 .283 pounds per cubic inch. Multiply length x width x thickness of plate to arrive at cubic inches. Multiply result x 0.283 to arrive at weight of bar/plate. Need addled help...zing me a message. Bill


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## laser3kw (Feb 11, 2018)

jr27236 said:


> My friend had to put ladder bars on his 69 camaro to prevent it from doing a wheelie. Maybe I can mount a set of those on each aide of my machine to prevent the bucket from coming up?


I toyed with that idea and even mocked up some parts. My only hesitation - read: haven't figured out yet - is when I go to turn around or maneuver and _need_ to tilt the machine back, how will the wheelie bars prevent me from doing that? Of course I can develop some sort of engagement device but I'd rather keep it simple. Mentally envision you are clearing the path and then you need to turn. Disengage wheelie bar, maneuver, line up, re-engage wheelie bar, drive to end, disengage wheelie bar, maneuver, line up, re-engage wheelie bar, drive to end.... how many times before it gets annoying? Sure, it may not be that bad, but I like simple. Something that does the job and you don't notice it's there.
I have the summer to think on it.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

I thought about the wheelie bars too but the 20lbs was a huge improvement. I also liked how I could push down on the handles to get more traction.

I probably will add another 10 lbs.

It was much easier dealing with the packed snow.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> I thought about the wheelie bars too but the 20lbs was a huge improvement. I also liked how I could push down on the handles to get more traction.
> 
> I probably will add another 10 lbs.
> 
> It was much easier dealing with the packed snow.


This site has a large amount of information on how to 'modify' your handlebars after you break them by pushing down on one end of your machine after adding weight to the other..........
Unicuique suum - 'May all get their due'.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

Rooskie said:


> This site has a large amount of information on how to 'modify' your handlebars after you break them by pushing down on one end of your machine after adding weight to the other..........
> Unicuique suum - 'May all get their due'.


LOL. Is the glass ever half full? 
There is nothing wrong with improving a design or how a machine functions. Should we go on a tirade about adding rubber to the impeller on machines to improve its performance? I personally like adding accessories to things. I'm not disagreeing with tour position in this and I appreciate your input for sure but if someone adds weight to the front of his machine is it really going to break to handle bars. If they add A LOT I'm sure it will especially on the thin hollow tube ones. But on this pro model and like the Toro HD series the bars are square. But they do weld on the rube at the top which i have to admit looks like the achilles heal in the design.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

jr27236 said:


> LOL. Is the glass ever half full?
> There is nothing wrong with improving a design or how a machine functions. Should we go on a tirade about adding rubber to the impeller on machines to improve its performance? I personally like adding accessories to things. I'm not disagreeing with tour position in this and I appreciate your input for sure but if someone adds weight to the front of his machine is it really going to break to handle bars. If they add A LOT I'm sure it will especially on the thin hollow tube ones. But on this pro model and like the Toro HD series the bars are square. But they do weld on the rube at the top which i have to admit looks like the achilles heal in the design.


LOL, the correct answer is that it is always the perception of the viewer.
A vase or two faces looking at each other? All perception.
Rohrsach's? same deal. Nothing is there. It's what the mind implies that describes the blot.

Yes. If you add weight to something for which it was not designed, you greatly increase the chance of breaking the lever used to lift that weight. Euclid will tell you that. Wile E. Coyote has demonstrated the concept dozens of times. We've all seen it. 

Most all snowblowers used tubular handles for what? The last 50 years?
I observe by your final sentence you are starting to see the light. Identify the weakness, judge with knowledge, not 'belief'.


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## jr27236 (Feb 19, 2021)

Rooskie said:


> LOL, the correct answer is that it is always the perception of the viewer.
> A vase or two faces looking at each other? All perception.
> Rohrsach's? same deal. Nothing is there. It's what the mind implies that describes the blot.
> 
> ...


Oh, believe me I do agree with some of your points. You do make a tough argument. I think by adding the 18lb plate to the front of this machine will not make a difference as for stress added at the end of the day. 25-30 may be an issue to the handles. 
So now this thread is evolving to the handles. 
Solve one issue ...create another......
Thats it im selling my machine and hiring a guy to clear it lol


Also in regards to the lever action you mention. Where the axles is placed has everything to do with the load placed on the handles.
So now I suggest a Myth busters type rig with a load gauge on the handles and test stock load and added variety of weight and see how the load changes to the handles bars. I could probably do this easy enough with a fish weight scale?? 
Love how this thread has become so technical. The designers/engineers should really follow some of these conversations. I have to see if I have this scale now


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

You can probably stand on a bathroom scale and watch the change in weight as you just begin to lift the front bucket off the ground...I think !


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

jr27236 said:


> Oh, believe me I do agree with some of your points. You do make a tough argument. I think by adding the 18lb plate to the front of this machine will not make a difference as for stress added at the end of the day. 25-30 may be an issue to the handles.
> So now this thread is evolving to the handles.
> Solve one issue ...create another......
> Thats it im selling my machine and hiring a guy to clear it lol
> ...


Where do you live? I'm available for a fee.
This is a growing business opportunity. Just like when you go out to see those ol' steam tractors still thresh wheat and pull a plow.
'Watch from the warmth of your home as snow is blown like your grandpa used to back in the day!'

I don't trust a fish scale. It lies more than a fisherman!
I'm not good at math, but I'd bet there are formulas to tell you how much extra downforce to lift.
But consider this: The load is not static. Not only do the handles have to lift extra weight, but must also contend with side to side motion, which is a load equal to the weight, laterally. The handles are dealing with extra weight in one plane, but full weight in another when it thrusts from side to side any time you turn


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## BazookaJoe (Oct 6, 2019)

To figure the force difference when you add the weight, it's relatively easy to to calculate. It's a calculation of distance x force from the pivot point being the axle. So, if the 15 lbs is 25" from the axles and the handles are 30" from the axles (just spit balling distances, you'll have to measure actual numbers), then the increased force to the handles would be- 15 lbs x 25/30 = 12.5 lbs 

I have a wild and crazy idea. How about if you just deal with the bucket walking up at the EOD for those few times which it is actually a problem, and then enjoy your well-balanced machine for the other 90% of the time?


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

BazookaJoe said:


> To figure the force difference when you add the weight, it's relatively easy to to calculate. It's a calculation of distance x force from the pivot point being the axle. So, if the 15 lbs is 25" from the axles and the handles are 30" from the axles (just spit balling distances, you'll have to measure actual numbers), then the increased force to the handles would be- 15 lbs x 25/30 = 12.5 lbs
> 
> I have a wild and crazy idea. How about if you just deal with the bucket walking up at the EOD for those few times which it is actually a problem, and then enjoy your well-balanced machine for the other 90% of the time?


I'm not sure about others, including the op, but in my case the EOD is 95%+ of the use.
I have no doubt my specific purpose is rare.

*That said,
For what it's worth I felt my dad's 2019 Ariens Hydropro 32 over the weekend and it was far more front heavy than my 1999 824 is even with the 20 pounds added to the bucket. Substantially more heavy and there's nothing added to his.*

I also took home the 1996 White (MTD) 30" from him and that feels like a toy compared my 1999 24" Ariens. Very light in the front.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

I've always wondered (meaning that I've been too lazy to try) if a simple piece of angle iron, similar to drift cutters would keep the bucket down as it bites into the snow and EOD mess as an option to adding weight. Most likely the skids and edges of the bucket are causing the snowblower to ride up on packet snow, maybe something to counter this effect would help?


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