# Honda doesn't seem to be interested in selling their products



## Mitral (Aug 28, 2014)

I live in the Twin Cities. I think its probably safe to say that this is one of the top markets in the North America for snow blower sales. The only markets I can think of that would be larger would be Canadian markets and US markets closer to the Great Lakes.

As Labor Day weekend approaches, we shelf a lack luster summer and start preparing for another winter. If the past 12 month trend of below average temperature and above average precipitation continues, this will be another long, hard winter. It's never to early to prepare. Most of us remember the Halloween Blizzard of 1991 when we received 20+ inches.

If you walk into a Home Depot or Lowes this weekend, you will find row after row of Snow Blowers. Toro, MTD, Ariens etc... If you attend the MN State fair and stroll through "Machinery Hill", you will find entire fleets of 2 stage snow blowers in the factory sponsored buildings of Toro, Ariens, Cub Cadet and the likes. Walk into any small engine sport shop and you will find similar results time and time again, including Simplicity. BUT WHERE ARE THE HONDAS?!?!?

I couldn't find anything other than a small gas generator at the fair in the Northern Tool & Equipment tent. I have called every Honda Power Equipment dealer in the entire metro area. From what I can tell, there isn't a fully assembled 2 stage Honda snow blower anywhere!!! Most don't even carry 2 stage snow blowers. Most Honda snow blowers are only the single stage machines. The few that actually carry Honda 2 stage snow blowers wont even have them on display until mid - late October. I can't imagine they will have much selection if and when they do hit the show room floor.

I am not a big fan of seeing Halloween Candy in June, X'mas decorations in September, Winter coats in July, or bathing suites in January, but I don't think its to much to ask to see a snowblower in person Labor Day weekend. Particularly since most of us don't want to make a $3K decision over night.

Why oh why doesn't Honda and their dealers want to sell their products? Despite living in Wisconsin, my affection for Ariens is slowly waning. Add the fact that I am extremely fond of my Honda HRX217HYA, I am seriously considering a Honda HS928WA. Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to talk myself into a $2,500 snow blower when one doesn't physically exist!!

Do people in other markets have this same experience or is this something unique to the Twin Cities? I even called American Honda Power Equipment Division's Customer Relations and their lackluster response supported the notion that they could care less about the sale of such an expensive machine. Their response what that it is up to the local sales teams and not their problem.

I'm extremely interested in their product but they sure do make it difficult. I am also in sales. If I ran a similar business model I would go broke within a few quarters!!!

Anyone in the Twin Cities want to let me lean over your Honda and put my hands on the handle bars?!

Cheers!


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

ALOHA to the forms..


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## Mitral (Aug 28, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> ALOHA to the forms..


:thumbs up:


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Welcome

While I understand your point, and point of view, there are some considerations with regards to volume and overhead, with machines over $2k. I know down here, Honda dealers are few and far. My closest one, is actually a corner of a Honda car dealer, and they do not carry a huge stock of any sort of machines.

Now, Honda not having booth to demo their line-up at the fair, well they're just hurting themselves and their dealerships. And, I also agree on the idea of being able to put my hands on, that costs as much as that.

And I am surprised, or would be, if the dealers were not happy with this decision.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

you live here in the cities, why don't u look at TORO. they have served me well through the years...


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

If Honda thought they could sell a ton of the 2 stages and make a boatload of money for themselves, they would obviously do it. The reality of the situation is the 2 stages, while being great machines, are incredibly overpriced vs the competition. Single stages, different story.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

I asked the District Sales Manager for the area, and he tells me this Honda dealer has a good inventory of Honda 2-stage products. 

Beisswengers Do It Best
1823 Old Highway 8
New Brighton, MN 55112
651.518.3808
Bob Tacke
Ray Pomerlou

Hope this helps...


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

Everyone relax, Honda snowblowers were at the fair. I only took pictures of their new single stages, but there were 2 stage machines in the row next to them. Mitral just didn't see them. See the link
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/240761-post6.html


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## Mitral (Aug 28, 2014)

Thanks for the replies mates! I'll try and find New Brighton in my travels across town. When I called them yesterday the gentleman on the phone said they had some but they wouldn't be assembled and on the showroom until late September to mid October. Same response from Honda Town, Frontier Ag and Turf, & Gerlach's.

I can't believe I missed the machines at the fair. Was it a specific dealer or was it Honda Power Equipment themselves? I went on opening day and also on Tuesday. I missed them both times. I even called Honda Town and asked if Honda had a booth at the fair. He said not that they knew of. Looks like I missed the boat on this one....

Thanks for the images. I'll have to tell my wife and kids to slow down on machinery hill next time!!


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## Mitral (Aug 28, 2014)

So I've done a bit more digging. Beisswengers has an exhibit at the MN State Fair, which has 2 stage Honda Snow Blowers on display. Why they didn't say that when I called them will remain a mystery. I confirmed this evening that they do not have any assembled. They have two HS928WA and four HS928TA. The sales rep said they usually go fast, justifying my desire to shop during the labor day weekend. They are going to call me when they have some assembled.

Now the big question. If I decide to pull the trigger, do I pay an extra $140 to the local guy or purchase through Yamaha & Honda Generators | Lawn Mowers & Power Equipment | Wise Sales

Thx again [email protected] and superedge88!!


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## Mitral (Aug 28, 2014)

gibbs296 said:


> ...while being great machines, are incredibly overpriced vs the competition...


Ariens Hydro Pro 28 = $2,399.99
Honda HS928WA = $2,579.99

An extra 7.5% is technically "over priced" but I wouldn't necessarily say it's incredibly so.


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

Mitral said:


> Thanks for the replies mates! I'll try and find New Brighton in my travels across town. When I called them yesterday the gentleman on the phone said they had some but they wouldn't be assembled and on the showroom until late September to mid October. Same response from Honda Town, Frontier Ag and Turf, & Gerlach's.
> 
> I can't believe I missed the machines at the fair. Was it a specific dealer or was it Honda Power Equipment themselves? I went on opening day and also on Tuesday. I missed them both times. I even called Honda Town and asked if Honda had a booth at the fair. He said not that they knew of. Looks like I missed the boat on this one....
> 
> Thanks for the images. I'll have to tell my wife and kids to slow down on machinery hill next time!!


I don't remember who's booth had the Honda snowblowers, sorry. Beisswengers is a great place to do business with. But I wouldn't blame you for wanting to save money. The support of a local business is very nice though.


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## KpaxFAQ (Aug 30, 2014)

Mitral said:


> Ariens Hydro Pro 28 = $2,399.99
> Honda HS928WA = $2,579.99
> 
> An extra 7.5% is technically "over priced" but I wouldn't necessarily say it's incredibly so.


I went to the two Honda OPE dealers within 15 minutes of my house and they had ALL the two stage models assembled and on the showroom floor. I'm buying a HS928WA. It will be my first and hopefully with my meticulous maintenance one of my only snow blowers in my lifetime...

Best price I found was for cash/check only at $2350+tax for the HS928WA. 

Then again Erie, PA was the snow champion of the USA last year at 138.4"


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

Mitral said:


> Thanks for the replies mates! I'll try and find New Brighton in my travels across town. When I called them yesterday the gentleman on the phone said they had some but they wouldn't be assembled and on the showroom until late September to mid October. Same response from Honda Town, Frontier Ag and Turf, & Gerlach's.
> 
> I can't believe I missed the machines at the fair. Was it a specific dealer or was it Honda Power Equipment themselves? I went on opening day and also on Tuesday. I missed them both times. I even called Honda Town and asked if Honda had a booth at the fair. He said not that they knew of. Looks like I missed the boat on this one....
> 
> Thanks for the images. I'll have to tell my wife and kids to slow down on machinery hill next time!!


I don't remember who's booth had the Honda snowblowers, sorry. Beisswengers is a great place to do business with. But I wouldn't blame you for wanting to save money. The support of a local business is very nice though.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Mitral said:


> Ariens Hydro Pro 28 = $2,399.99
> Honda HS928WA = $2,579.99
> 
> An extra 7.5% is technically "over priced" but I wouldn't necessarily say it's incredibly so.


Wow, i didn't realize the Honda 2 stage snowblowers were priced that close, my mistake. Can anyone post a price comparison between the Ariens compact 24 at $799 and the comparable Honda 24 model?


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Mitral said:


> So I've done a bit more digging. Beisswengers has an exhibit at the MN State Fair, which has 2 stage Honda Snow Blowers on display. Why they didn't say that when I called them will remain a mystery. I confirmed this evening that they do not have any assembled. They have two HS928WA and four HS928TA. The sales rep said they usually go fast, justifying my desire to shop during the labor day weekend. They are going to call me when they have some assembled.
> 
> Now the big question. If I decide to pull the trigger, do I pay an extra $140 to the local guy or purchase through Yamaha & Honda Generators | Lawn Mowers & Power Equipment | Wise Sales
> 
> Thx again [email protected] and superedge88!!


I would assume the correct decision would be to support the local dealer and pay the extra money, or the entire topic of the original post about having no local dealers with 2 stage Hondas in stock would be negated. Good luck with your purchase.


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

gibbs296 said:


> Wow, i didn't realize the Honda 2 stage Snowblower stye only were priced that close, my mistake. Can anyone post a price comparison between the Ariens compact 24 at $799 and the comparable Honda 24 model?


Honda only makes hydrostatic 2 stage snowblowers these days, so the hs724 is the most basic 2 stage model they make at about $2,000. Just depends on what you're looking for. Honda stopped making friction disc drive snowblowers a while back (10-15 years ago?)you can find them used if you're wanting a friction disc snowblower.


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## Mitral (Aug 28, 2014)

Hey Superedge88,

I see we're neighbors across the St. Croix river. What capacity do you use the H928 for? It seems our winters are hit and miss but 3 of the past 4 have been hits. Have you ever found yourself thinking that the H724 would have been enough? Do you ever find yourself wishing you had a 1332? Is your H928 W or T?

Thanks again for the insight so far.


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

Mitral said:


> Hey Superedge88,
> 
> I see we're neighbors across the St. Croix river. What capacity do you use the H928 for? It seems our winters are hit and miss but 3 of the past 4 have been hits. Have you ever found yourself thinking that the H724 would have been enough? Do you ever find yourself wishing you had a 1332? Is your H928 W or T?
> 
> Thanks again for the insight so far.



Keep in mind that I bought my hs928 used, so I paid nowhere near the retail price. I have the wheeled version, I didn't want the tracked version. The hs928 is the largest honda snowblower that comes in a wheeled version. I have a driveway that is 80+ feet long, and it has a large parking area at the top. It isn't steep, but it is definitely uphill going up the driveway. We have to park a couple of vehicles in the driveway over the winter, so I need a lot of maneuverability to get around the vehicles which you just can't get with a track blower. Could I get away with a 724, sure I could. But I try to buy once and have no regrets, so I went with the HS928 and I am very happy. The thing I love the most is the hydrostatic drive!! So much quicker than shifting gears!!!


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## Mitral (Aug 28, 2014)

gibbs296 said:


> I would assume the correct decision would be to support the local dealer and pay the extra money, or the entire topic of the original post about having no local dealers with 2 stage Hondas in stock would be negated. Good luck with your purchase.


I agree that supporting the local guy is the right thing to do, when possible. Now it's up to them to remain competitive. I don't believe in needlessly funding other states social programs though either.


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## sr71 (Mar 25, 2013)

Tell him you believe in supporting the local guy BUT… ask for a price match…chances are they will meet you in the middle or throw in something that they have lots of margin on.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

You Honda guys kill me, I really do love ya though. Ok, just a thought, these Hondas last 20+ years right? So that extra $140 you paid to buy local spreads out to about $7 per year or so? If the Honda is damaged during shipping or God help you the one you get is a lemon, do you want to try and ship it back to Illinois? If I was the local dealer and you came to me for service on something you purchased elsewhere I might be less inclined to give you 100% of my effort, although I'm sure that"s not true with Beiswingers, great place.


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

superedge88 said:


> Honda only makes hydrostatic 2 stage snowblowers these days, so the hs724 is the most basic 2 stage model they make at about $2,000. Just depends on what you're looking for. Honda stopped making friction disc drive snowblowers a while back (10-15 years ago?)you can find them used if you're wanting a friction disc snowblower.


Actually, Honda has been making the single-stage HS520 for over ten years now, and it was just replaced with the mower powerful single-stage HS720, available in three versions. Bonus: completely manufactured, including engine casting and machining, in Swepsonville, NC; see this link for pics and details:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/22114-hs720-being-built-north-carolina.html


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Actually, Honda has been making the single-stage HS520 for over ten years now, and it was just replaced with the mower powerful single-stage HS720, available in three versions. Bonus: completely manufactured, including engine casting and machining, in Swepsonville, NC; see this link for pics and details:
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/22114-hs720-being-built-north-carolina.html


LOL, I guess you could read my post in that way. What I was trying to actually say is that as far as two stage Honda Blowers go that they are all hydrostatic these days. How I worded it however I can understand that you thought I was saying that honda only makes 2 stage snowblowers.


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## yarcraftman (Jan 30, 2014)

My old Ariens finally starting going out last winter and I decided that I wanted to get a Honda due to my neighbors having issues with their engines on the Ariens (apparently Chinese made now) and seeing two Power Max's have chute problems. I have had good experiences with their other equipment.

Granted it is a huge pile of cash for a snow blower but I am hoping the quality and durability live up to its name. The Ariens ran good for many years but always needed some type of work; of course when it was 10 degrees out.

I had to order a new Two Stage 724 in Michigan (nobody had any to look at). I purchased from a local dealer because I like keeping them in business and I like the fact that they can service my equipment and have treated me well in the past. 

I will probably take delivery in next few weeks I would guess and hope that it lasts for generations to come.

Best of luck in purchase.


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## shiers69 (Sep 8, 2014)

*I'm in the TC looking for one too*

I had the same experience at Beisswenger's. Good guys working there but they are priced higher than other dealers in the area. I got a better quote for the HS928WAS from HondaTown on East Lake Street.

Supposedly this winter is going to be even worse than last and I plan to be ready for it.


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## sevenpedaler (Sep 14, 2014)

I called Northern Tool in Rogers inquiring about a 928WAS. He told me he could have one the next day ready to go. I thought about it for a minute and told him to go ahead. The next day it was ready and waiting for me by 3pm. He even gave me $50 off for a tiny scratch in the chute that you can barely see. Hondas sell themselves. Anyone who wants to spend the money on quality will seek out what they want. That goes for anything these days. If you want to good stuff you have to look past the crap at Mendards and Home Depot. I'm willing to bet the margin is much higher on a $600 machine than there is on a Honda. The economics of scale and the lower quality parts has to be the reason.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

I bought mine at Moon Motorsports in Monticello , MN. I drove 60 miles for this deal. I also got a great price 3 years ago. I won't say what I got it for, other dealers may whine, but I was happy. Moon Motorsports is a BMW, Triumph, Honda, Polaris, and Yamaha dealership in Monticello Minnesota, specializing in BMW, as well as offering parts and service


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Apple guy said:


> I bought mine at Moon Motorsports in Monticello , MN. I drove 60 miles for this deal. I also got a great price 3 years ago. I won't say what I got it for, other dealers may whine, but I was happy. Moon Motorsports is a BMW, Triumph, Honda, Polaris, and Yamaha dealership in Monticello Minnesota, specializing in BMW, as well as offering parts and service


 I'm just curious. If you need service on your $2400 snowblower will you load it up and take it to Moon or bring to the closest dealer?


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

I will fix it. I use to have a side Audi repair shop out of my garage years ago so digging into a snowblower is not an issue. If I did not have the skill to fix it, I would go to a close dealer that I "think" I could trust. I would try to find reviews of their service/sales on the internet when possible to help making a logical choice. Turn around time would also be an issue to a point. 

Let's hope this Honda will be as good as my 1990 Yamaha 828 wheel. 21 years and all I ever put into it was 2-3 spark plugs, 2 auger scrapers, side auger feet, and 1 carb because I forgot to drain the gas one spring and while rebuilding the carb I pushed over the carb float arms while pushing in the float pin. Very thin arms and they folded over like brittle toothpicks. When I sold it in 2012 it was still running and still had the original belts on it. 

I must add that Yamaha was a far better snowblower then my Honda 928. If you compared the two it seemed like the Yamaha had a 12 hp motor on it compared to the 9hp (8.5hp) the Honda has. The Yamaha was a large frame and the Honda 928 is a medium frame snowblower. I would of bought another Yamaha but they are not sold in the US, and the Canada model is $4000 for a 9hp and it is only available in track drive. 

I do have my worries though on the small flaw seen by some with Honda hydro drives.... The drive pin sheers inside the right gear case. This is because I feel the Honda hydro drive needs a 2 second relief valve that would go from 0% pressure to 100 % pressure in 2 seconds, to stop the instant on or almost instant on of drive engagement. This is why people are sheering that pin. I have tried 2 other Honda's and they all engage too quickly even if you try to engage the trans lever really slowly. This $10 valve (internally) would solve the abrupt engagement issue. To stop this hard engagement you need to start out at 10 to 20% speed vs normal running speed of 50%. Do-able but a pain in the keyster and this should not be an issue with a well designed high $$$ snowblower, but it is. Remember Honda did not design this tranny, Tuff Torq did. Tuff Torq | Snow .


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## KpaxFAQ (Aug 30, 2014)

Apple guy said:


> I will fix it. I use to have a side Audi repair shop out of my garage years ago so digging into a snowblower is not an issue. If I did not have the skill to fix it, I would go to a close dealer that I "think" I could trust. I would try to find reviews of their service/sales on the internet when possible to help making a logical choice. Turn around time would also be an issue to a point.
> 
> Let's hope this Honda will be as good as my 1990 Yamaha 828 wheel. 21 years and all I ever put into it was 2-3 spark plugs, 2 auger scrapers, side auger feet, and 1 carb because I forgot to drain the gas one spring and while rebuilding the carb I pushed over the carb float arms while pushing in the float pin. Very thin arms and they folded over like brittle toothpicks. When I sold it in 2012 it was still running and still had the original belts on it.
> 
> ...


Interesting info, I take delivery of a 928WA this Saturday and will remember this.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Apple guy said:


> I will fix it. I use to have a side Audi repair shop out of my garage years ago so digging into a snowblower is not an issue. If I did not have the skill to fix it, I would go to a close dealer that I "think" I could trust. I would try to find reviews of their service/sales on the internet when possible to help making a logical choice. Turn around time would also be an issue to a point.
> 
> Let's hope this Honda will be as good as my 1990 Yamaha 828 wheel. 21 years and all I ever put into it was 2-3 spark plugs, 2 auger scrapers, side auger feet, and 1 carb because I forgot to drain the gas one spring and while rebuilding the carb I pushed over the carb float arms while pushing in the float pin. Very thin arms and they folded over like brittle toothpicks. When I sold it in 2012 it was still running and still had the original belts on it.
> 
> ...


Where is that Robert Honda guy? Sounds like these have some big time problems


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

NO, small time problem. But something that should not be there with a $2,500 snowblower. It will also be discounted from fanboys and the manufacture.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Hopefully tufftorque trannys are better in the Hondas than they are in the other products they build for...Husqvarna LGT 2654 with Tuff Torq K46 transmission failure - Tractors Forum - GardenWeb


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

Apple Guy said:


> NO, small time problem. But something that should not be there with a $2,500 snowblower. It will also be discounted from fanboys and the manufacture.


_I own a honda hS928, so I'm sure that you'll think that my following comments are just me being a "fanboy"_
I have never heard of this issue, so you have my attention. In all my research as I was trying to make a decision last year on which snowblower to buy I never found any chronic problems with the Honda blowers, this issue included. I again did some searching and found only a couple of people talking about what _could_ be this issue. If this is such a glaring problem then it would be all over this forum and others with honda owners (including myself) throwing fits, much like the Ariens auto turn Debacle. Are you just stating that this is something that you think is a design flaw that will become an issue after long service hours? I'm all ears, you seem to know more about the Tranny on these hydros than I do.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

I am puzzled that Honda would have someone else design/make their transmissions? First i have heard of this. Any links to back this up?


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

gibbs296 said:


> I am puzzled that Honda would have someone else design/make their transmissions? First i have heard of this. Any links to back this up?


I agree, puzzling to me as well.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

I just got off of the phone with Tuff Torq and they do not make the Honda trans. It then must be Honda who has designed it. I was just going off what many have said on different forums I have Goggled. 

I need to also add, the Honda snowblow has a rough power engagement issue I think AND it does not have a hydro transmission breakage problem. The pin and gears that some have had is in the gear case next to the transmission. Some people have gear case breakage problems. We can see this in this post that as of my posting is on the first page. 

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...racked-hs828-needs-new-transmission-does.html


It doesn't surprise me though that Honda would let something like this pass. They did that also in their automobiles by putting a car transmission, an Acura TL auto transmission into the heavy Odyssey van. While not a glaring news worthy problem, many people will be affected with it. You are lucky if you get to 150,000 mile without a new rebuilt tranny. 

Honda knows it has a problem with the car tranny in a heavy van issue, but they keep designing it into the next model year, after model year. The newer designed model they finally beefed it up a bit. They also changed (decreased) how much slip agent they use in their ATF fluid. The forms have many people changing factory fluid to RedLine D4. I myself dumped the factory fill on my Odyssey at 36,000 and Honda Fit at 20,000 to use 70% Redline D4 and 30% Redline Racing ATF ( type F) to reduce the slip modifiers a tad more. In 2012/2013 Honda reduced these slip agents in their factory trans oil, adding to, and sudo acknowledging what some and owner/research geek knew and oil geeks on the forms that the combo of light duty tranny, high slip agent trans fluid are bad combos to their automobile automatic transmissions.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

Apple Guy said:


> It doesn't surprise me though that Honda would let something like this pass. They did that also in their automobiles by putting a car transmission, an Acura TL auto transmission into the heavy Odyssey van. While not a glaring news worthy problem, many people will be affected with it. You are lucky if you get to 150,000 mile without a new rebuilt tranny.


The problem wasn't using a car transmission in a van, the problem was that the transmission wasn't any good to start with. They faired no better in the TLs and V6 Accords.


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

... So the snowblowers must be terrible then &#55357;&#56841;


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

superedge88 said:


> ... So the snowblowers must be terrible then ��


Yup i Guess so..but if I had the money i would be more than happy to have one of those "terrible" machines.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

superedge88 said:


> ... So the snowblowers must be terrible then ��


The snowblowers are great, I own two of them. So are the cars, I've owned a couple of civics, currently looking for another. But those Odyssey/TL/V6 Accord transmissions were junk, both the 4 and 5 speed automatics. I'm a big proponent of Honda, done lots of side work on Honda cars, worked in the shop at a Honda dealership and rebuilt one of those TL transmissions so when I say those transmissions are junk I do have some idea as to what I'm talking about.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

I'm failing to see the connection between a bad transmission in an odyssey and a snowblower. My Yugo has a bad transmission therefore so does my Husquvarna? And i actually was a trained Yugo tech and have gone through many Yugo 4 and 5 speeds back in 88 and 89.


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

gibbs296 said:


> I'm failing to see the connection between a bad transmission in an odyssey and a snowblower. My Yugo has a bad transmission therefore so does my Husquvarna? And i actually was a trained Yugo tech and have gone through many Yugo 4 and 5 speeds back in 88 and 89.


Exactly my point, this thread has gotten hilariously derailed, can we talk about snowblowers please?


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

What it shows is Honda can make questionable choices on how they choose to design a product. Bringing up car transmissions of a manufacture who also manufactures the snowblower we own is relevant. They correlate as far as design philosophies, implementation of questionable designs "in use" long term by this manufacture. 

Why stifle discussion on a topic if it moves around a bit. I think we are still "in line" with this topic. How boring if you don't bob and weave from time to time.


This site I hope is not a "forum nazi" site, were a few elders dictate discussion protocol?

I am a regular on a sister site of Vertical Scope's WalleyeCentral.com and I comment almost 80% on computer and internet security posts on a Walleye site. I doubt Vertical Scope cares if we correlate Honda's manufacturing process and manufacturing philosophies that could be similar in these two sectors.

.


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

Apple Guy said:


> What it shows is Honda can make questionable choices on how they choose to design a product. Bringing up car transmissions of a manufacture who also manufactures the snowblower we own is relevant. They correlate as far as design philosophies, implementation of questionable designs "in use" long term by this manufacture.
> 
> Why stifle discussion on a topic if it moves around a bit. I think we are still "in line" with this topic. How boring if you don't bob and weave from time to time.
> 
> .


Bobbing and weaving is fine, my response was more of a reflection of my disagreement with your lines of logic. To assume that the *auto* engineers that designed a poor car transmission for honda also are designing snowblower hydro transmissions... seems to be a reach.
It's kind of like saying that if I view 3M post-it notes as faulty products, that now I'm questioning all of the thousands of 3M adhesive products.
I understand what you're saying, I'm just not really seeing a connection, just my opinion. I'll move on and stop commenting about this.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

superedge88 said:


> Bobbing and weaving is fine, my response was more of a reflection of my disagreement with your lines of logic. To assume that the *auto* engineers that designed a poor car transmission for honda also are designing snowblower hydro transmissions... seems to be a reach.
> It's kind of like saying that if I view 3M post-it notes as faulty products, that now I'm questioning all of the thousands of 3M adhesive products.
> I understand what you're saying, I'm just not really seeing a connection, just my opinion. I'll move on and stop commenting about this.



Absolutely not, anyone would know the automobile design team would have zero connection to the snowblower team. What I am say is if a company who prides themselves on design and quality as Honda does, should address some of these issues that really are so easy to fix. The fix has to be designed in. How could you keep designing a known flaw as per TL trannies in the car market and gearbox pin/power engagement stutter in the snowblower market get by QC at the manufacture. It is just so easy to fix for them, but they don't. 

I guess I must be too picky, to have picked up the way the snowblower tranny has a glitchy engagement. I was really expecting more from Honda. I don't really want to be the one to compromise how I use one of the most expensive snowblowers made because I am in fear of breaking a 7mm pin in the gearbox and have to start out at 10 to 20% speed to reduce the chance of this happening, when every other wheel and track driven snowblower in the world can start out SMOOTHLY even at 80 to 100% speed. 


I want to bring it up because many may not have the problem or not be aware of it. If more people question this as a problem then Honda will be more willing to look at it when they do refinements in up and coming years.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

Apple Guy said:


> How could you keep designing a known flaw as per TL trannies in the car market and gearbox pin/power engagement stutter in the snowblower market get by QC at the manufacture. It is just so easy to fix for them, but they don't.


For what it's worth that pin has never really been much of an issue. Most people will never break one, it can and does occasionally happen, but it's rare. Odyssey/TL trannys are a different story, that affected a lot of people, multiple times in most cases.

I'm not saying there's not room for improvement but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a flawed design.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

94EG8 said:


> For what it's worth that pin has never really been much of an issue. Most people will never break one, it can and does occasionally happen, but it's rare. Odyssey/TL trannys are a different story, that affected a lot of people, multiple times in most cases.
> 
> I'm not saying there's not room for improvement but I wouldn't go so far as to call it a flawed design.


That may be true, but with one caveat. I bet most people that come from the slip disc tranny and then come to a Honda Hydro feel the pounding on fast engagement and then adapt to a slower start speed. I have, but certainly don't like it. I am pounding that gearcase pin and I would be one of the guys who will have to deal with it unless I change how I use it. And again, not in any way hard if you use any other snowblower in the world today. My Yamaha 828 had zero tranny issues with how I used it. It still had all the original OEM belts on it from day one. That was a 21 year old snowblower that got a major work out with 2 end of drive piles plus a side walk end of path moved hard packed snow it punch through every snowfall.

Why should I have to totally "detune" the way I have to start on a $2,500 snowblower when the rest of the worlds snowblowers won't be damaged by fast starts? I am just saying..... Honda, time to add a 2 second relief valve and FIX your unrefined Hydro tranny. Again, some my not see, or feel the problem. Until Honda sees some people questioning it, nothing will be done about it. The thing is I seem to be the only one who has issue with it, so it seems. But I am adamant on voicing my opinion seeing I payed $2,500 to have the right to whine about it!! 

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## KpaxFAQ (Aug 30, 2014)

Apple Guy said:


> That may be true, but with one caveat. I bet most people that come from the slip disc tranny and then come to a Honda Hydro feel the pounding on fast engagement and then adapt to a slower start speed. I have, but certainly don't like it. I am pounding that gearcase pin and I would be one of the guys who will have to deal with it unless I change how I use it. And again, not in any way hard if you use any other snowblower in the world today. My Yamaha 828 had zero tranny issues with how I used it. It still had all the original OEM belts on it from day one. That was a 21 year old snowblower that got a major work out with 2 end of drive piles plus a side walk end of path moved hard packed snow it punch through every snowfall.
> 
> Why should I have to totally "detune" the way I have to start on a $2,500 snowblower when the rest of the worlds snowblowers won't be damaged by fast starts? I am just saying..... Honda, time to add a 2 second relief valve and FIX your unrefined Hydro tranny. Again, some my not see, or feel the problem. Until Honda sees some people questioning it, nothing will be done about it. The thing is I seem to be the only one who has issue with it, so it seems. But I am adamant on voicing my opinion seeing I payed $2,500 to have the right to whine about it!!
> 
> .


Hey Apple guy when I took mine for a run around the driveway after delivery I intentionally tested what you talk about and you're absolutely right. I would want to make sure I engage the clutch as close to neutral as possible personally. Even engaging at a really slow speed there is a jolt. There's not much that ought to changed at this thing to my eyes so far but if one were to suggest something, that would be it!


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## superedge88 (Nov 26, 2013)

Apple Guy said:


> That may be true, but with one caveat. I bet most people that come from the slip disc tranny and then come to a Honda Hydro feel the pounding on fast engagement and then adapt to a slower start speed. I have, but certainly don't like it. I am pounding that gearcase pin and I would be one of the guys who will have to deal with it unless I change how I use it. And again, not in any way hard if you use any other snowblower in the world today. My Yamaha 828 had zero tranny issues with how I used it. It still had all the original OEM belts on it from day one. That was a 21 year old snowblower that got a major work out with 2 end of drive piles plus a side walk end of path moved hard packed snow it punch through every snowfall.
> 
> Why should I have to totally "detune" the way I have to start on a $2,500 snowblower when the rest of the worlds snowblowers won't be damaged by fast starts? I am just saying..... Honda, time to add a 2 second relief valve and FIX your unrefined Hydro tranny. Again, some my not see, or feel the problem. Until Honda sees some people questioning it, nothing will be done about it. The thing is I seem to be the only one who has issue with it, so it seems. But I am adamant on voicing my opinion seeing I payed $2,500 to have the right to whine about it!!
> 
> .


Sell your Honda, purchase a Yamaha at a much higher price from someone willing to import one. Problem solved.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

Yamaha $4,000 with only tracks, no options there. 

Why can't I have an opinion on my Honda, your comment makes no sense and you know it. 

I have the right to comment on my Honda after paying $2,500 and buying an issue that should not be there. Some new buyer would be happy to hear what's going on with it instead of being very surprised as I was. 


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