# To all mtd owners?



## boxxer06

20 YEARS AGO I SOLD MY WHITE(MTD) SNOWBLOWER TO A GOOD FRIEND THAT LIVES NEAR CLEVAND OHIO BY LAKE ERIE AND IT GETS PLENTY OF USE AND TO THIS DAY HE STILL HAS NOT HAD ONE ISSUE AT ALL.People like to bash MTD and that snowblower is as good as anything out there.So please let all the bashing go in one ear and out the other ear and enjoy your MTD'S


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## DuffyJr

I think most of the bashing is with the newer MTD's made in the last few years. Mine is going into it's 23 year and while it is a little under powered with the 5hp tec it's been good to me.


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## Jatoxico

^^Ditto. My circa 1988 Craftsman is an MTD and is pretty solid and well built but the new MTD products are no longer built to the same spec. Not that with typical homeowner use you can't use them and keep them going but not built to last like they once were.


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## AriensPro1128

Maybe the 20 or 30 year old ones were good machines. Most of the bashing is about the newer ones. Sears was great company in the old days. How many people will agree about the new company?


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## cranman

I just took in trade a 2005 Yardman (MTD) with a 9 hp Tech and 26 inch bucket. This machine has had absolutely no maintence since new....not even oil change. the skids were worn out the scraper was gone, and the paint was flaking. That said, with an oil change, new scraper and skids, transmission lube and adjustment and some paint on the bucket, its ready to go back to work and looks great. 13 years of snow clearing a 50 ft by 15 ft drive in New England and no input but gas. Are they my favorite? no...but they do the job and for cheap money....that's why they sell so many.


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## Jackmels

They are Fairly Decent Machines, and Easy to Work on. The Weak Spot is Lack of Steel in the Auger Housing, Notably in the Shoe Area. When you Tip One into Service Position, the Weak Steel Bends. And the Auger Cables Break. I used an 8-26 for about 15 Seasons with No Problems.


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## jsup

There's nothing wrong with MTD, new, old, or otherwise. Yeah, the metal is a little thinner, maybe they use sleeve instead of ball bearings on the auger, whatever, but for the money, they do what they have to do for the money people will pay. You can pick up a brand new MTD for $600. Try to get a used (fill in the blank with favorite brand) for that. 

It's like anything else in life, clothes, cars, tools, whatever, having what is considered a "status symbol" makes people feel better about themselves. It's alright, it does get annoying when it gets to a religious pitch. I like to needle those people, it's fun.


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## Money_man

Is Murray MTD?


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## boxxer06

*Yes*

Yes it is

(Moderator edit: no it isnt.  see post #12 and #14. - Scot)


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## Jatoxico

jsup said:


> There's nothing wrong with MTD, new, old, or otherwise. Yeah, the metal is a little thinner, maybe they use sleeve instead of ball bearings on the auger, whatever, but for the money, they do what they have to do for the money people will pay. You can pick up a brand new MTD for $600. Try to get a used (fill in the blank with favorite brand) for that.
> 
> It's like anything else in life, clothes, cars, tools, whatever, having what is considered a "status symbol" makes people feel better about themselves. It's alright, it does get annoying when it gets to a religious pitch. I like to needle those people, it's fun.


I hear you, the extent that some are so emotionally invested in their brand is surprising. To the point that they will make personal attcks and contradict their own prior posts to defend the label. Thankfully it's only one or two I could say I've seen (really one) in my limited time here and all in all it's great to have the knowledge base here.

And I agree about MTD but only to a point. My MTD (Troy Bilt) Lawn Tractor/Mower runs and cuts pretty good and has some cool looking plastic cladding and big tires to make it look beefy and tough but things they will expect plastic to do is unbelievable.

The metal is thin and the design is sometimes downright awful. Ex. the blade brakes are almost new on one side because the pad doesn't actually hit the braking surface. Never could and never will because it can't be adjusted. So it's slowly grinding the metal. Now I turn the rpms down as low as possible before disengaging the blades to minimize the damage but sheesh. I could go on.

So it's not for status that I generally avoid the brand for new purchases. And they sell all kinds of snow blades and other attachments that the little CVT trans and trans axle could never withstand.

But you're right they have their place. Anyways rant over. They do make for good stream of curbside finds if you can do you're own repairs and maybe a little re-engineering. Ask my backpack blower.


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## vinnycom

for the average driveway im sure theyre fine, price is equated to quality but its not a ripoff and u pay for what u get.
it blows snow for the average home owner w/the average driveway without taking out a 2nd mortgage. with maintance it will last as long as the owners willing to maintain it and if parts are still available.
imo ymmv


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## jtclays

Money_man said:


> Is Murray MTD?


Murray is NOT an MTD brand or product. Murray is owned by Briggs


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## jsup

Jatoxico said:


> I hear you, the extent that some are so emotionally invested in their brand is surprising. To the point that they will make personal attcks and contradict their own prior posts to defend the label. Thankfully it's only one or two I could say I've seen (really one) in my limited time here and all in all it's great to have the knowledge base here.


Yep. I agree there. it's not an overwhelming thing. I still like to tease them though. "give us the criteria and we'll tell you which (fill in the brand) to buy".... It's funny. And what's even more funny is when they get mad you point it out, kinda validates the point. 




> And I agree about MTD but only to a point. My MTD (Troy Bilt) Lawn Tractor/Mower runs and cuts pretty good and has some cool looking plastic cladding and big tires to make it look beefy and tough but things they will expect plastic to do is unbelievable.
> 
> The metal is thin and the design is sometimes downright awful. Ex. the blade brakes are almost new on one side because the pad doesn't actually hit the braking surface. Never could and never will because it can't be adjusted. So it's slowly grinding the metal. Now I turn the rpms down as low as possible before disengaging the blades to minimize the damage but sheesh. I could go on.
> 
> So it's not for status that I generally avoid the brand for new purchases. And they sell all kinds of snow blades and other attachments that the little CVT trans and trans axle could never withstand.
> 
> But you're right they have their place. Anyways rant over. They do make for good stream of curbside finds if you can do you're own repairs and maybe a little re-engineering. Ask my backpack blower.


I know what you're saying, that's all true. I don't know how big your lot is or how much you're asking it to do, but it may be beyond its design parameters. If you're trying to do 2 acres with an MTD, I'd say that's the wrong machine. If you're doing 1/4 acre, different story.

No excuse for that poorly aligned blade brake. I wonder if that's an isolated thing, or typical. 

Thing is, MTD puts out a lot of machines, and the higher the volume, by definition the more QC problems are going to exist. Is this any worse than the metal found in gas tanks in Ariens blowers? 

Right tool for the right job.


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## sscotsman

Money_man said:


> Is Murray MTD?





boxxer06 said:


> Yes it is


No it isnt.  Murray has never been part of MTD. (not for snowblowers anyway.)

They started out as the Murray bicycle company in 1919, Not sure when they started making snowblowers, 1970's perhaps.

Then in 1988 they were aquired by a British company, then in 1993 the snowblower line was aquired by Noma, and we had Murray/Noma snowblowers for a time. 

Then in 2005 they were purchased by Briggs & Stratton, and Murray snowblowers were made by B&S starting in 2005.

I think Briggs might have dropped the Murray name on snowblowers, perhaps just this year.

Scot


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## jonnied12

Nothing wrong with my MTD Troy-Bilt.


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## 98234

jonnied12 said:


> Nothing wrong with my MTD Troy-Bilt.


Agreed.....I have several Troy-bilt units with no problems at all. If you maintain your equipment properly...and do preventive maintenance....they give good value for money. It can be hit and miss with snow where I live.....I just can’t justify a high end piece of equipment that may hardly get used in a season.
My opinion.


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## Bob E

I don't mind the bashing. It makes most things with a mtd label cheaper than it deserves to be.



Jatoxico said:


> And they sell all kinds of snow blades and other attachments that the little CVT trans and trans axle could never withstand.


That's what the fancy tractor owners like to tell me, but I just keep pushing snow.


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## jsup

Paul.E.Wogg said:


> Agreed.....I have several Troy-bilt units with no problems at all. If you maintain your equipment properly...and do preventive maintenance....they give good value for money. It can be hit and miss with snow where I live.....I just can’t justify a high end piece of equipment that may hardly get used in a season.
> My opinion.


then you should buy a USED high end machine, at least that's what I hear. :devil:


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## classiccat

jsup said:


> then you should buy a USED high end machine, at least that's what I hear. :devil:


Shhh.... Someone's gotta buy new high-end equipment before one of us bottom feeders can buy it for pennies on the dollar.


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## Sid

My '66 Sears is a Murray, needless to say its coming up on 52 yrs old, still going.
Sid


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## Jatoxico

Bob E said:


> I don't mind the bashing. It makes most things with a mtd label cheaper than it deserves to be.
> 
> 
> That's what the fancy tractor owners like to tell me, but I just keep pushing snow.


I wish I was a fancy tractor owner! I should maybe have said it (mine) wouldn't hold up long term. It could probably push a few inches of snow around.

I can't see from the pic what you have exactly but it looks like you it's a good bit more well built than my Troy Bilt Bronco which is really more of a ride on mower. Hope yours keeps on keepin' on for you!


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## jsup

I think the quality gap in general is over rated.


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## skutflut

AriensPro1128 said:


> Maybe the 20 or 30 year old ones were good machines. Most of the bashing is about the newer ones. Sears was great company in the old days. How many people will agree about the new company?


Sears in Canada has just folded up it's tents and gone out of business. Announced liquidation in October, 2017, and as of Jan 16, they are closed across Canada.


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## Money_man

Yup no sears left. They closed quickly and got in big trouble for price gouging. Claimed things were on sale when they really just marked the original price way up sometimes 400% and then put them on for 1/2 price.


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## wdavids

I have a 3-yr old Toro 724 Powermax that I use at my home (small, in-town paved driveway, generally big snow), and for the last two years used at my camp as well (125+ foot gravel driveway plus parking, bigger snow). Got tired of trucking the Toro 50 miles one way and adjusting the skids every storm or two, plus the Toro was a bit outmatched on the long gravel drive after a snowfall of 18"+, so I bought a 2002 Yardman 10/26 that I put in service at my camp this winter. The Yardman is in great shape, with most of its original paint. I put in fresh synthetic oil, new plug. lubed it, replaced the gas cap (didn't vent), and added long aftermarket skids. Only issues so far are 2 broken shear pins (to be expected in gravel) and a broken recoil rope (fixed, didn't stop me since the e-start works regardless).

Comparing the two, there are definitely differences. The Toro, despite having far less rated hp (6.5), throws snow further and is clearly much better engineered. It feels more solid. The Toro has better ergonomics and is better balanced. The chute control works great. Overall, it is a pretty amazing machine -- a picture below shows it in the EOD pile after our recent 18" storm.

Having said all that, the MTD works fine. It starts easily, and does not use any oil. It has great traction with 16" tires and chains. It has metal gears on the axle and drive shaft, and no real plastic with the exception of the chute. Parts are easy to find and dirt cheap. I am glad I bought it for well under 1/2 the price of a new Toro 724, and would gladly use it in front of my five immediate neighbors with Ariens machines.


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## 98234

jsup said:


> then you should buy a USED high end machine, at least that's what I hear. :devil:


Nope, been fighting winter for 40 years......never had an abnormal issue with MTD or Troy-Bilt equipment...it’s not the brand....never been brand oriented....it’s always the need, usage, and value I go for. It could be called a Frogfartter for all I care. Happy to own it and use it, if it gets the job done with a cost/benefit ratio I can afford.

I’d love to see stats on cost to buy, maintenance cost...hours used...and some kind of snow density factor in it to create a cost benefit factor....then maybe I would be happily willing to change my opinion. None of the websites do this over years I have found...it’s always the brand of the season.

Perhaps here....we can do the public a service and reveal real numbers that make the cost benefit ratio meaningful...but it would have to be honest....controlled..and verified by several in the same location to be justified.

Until then....I do not see a valid arguement for a brand ...they all cost money...they all break down...they all cost to maintain....they all are used or not...I used mine 2 times far this winter. Cost Benefit is in my favor. But that could definitely change in a week.

We need real honest stats from all brands...types...years...hours, and snow density....


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## jsup

Paul.E.Wogg said:


> Nope, been fighting winter for 40 years......never had an abnormal issue with MTD or Troy-Bilt equipment...it’s not the brand....never been brand oriented....it’s always the need, usage, and value I go for. It could be called a Frogfartter for all I care. Happy to own it and use it, if it gets the job done with a cost/benefit ratio I can afford.
> 
> I’d love to see stats on cost to buy, maintenance cost...hours used...and some kind of snow density factor in it to create a cost benefit factor....then maybe I would be happily willing to change my opinion. None of the websites do this over years I have found...it’s always the brand of the season.
> 
> Perhaps here....we can do the public a service and reveal real numbers that make the cost benefit ratio meaningful...but it would have to be honest....controlled..and verified by several in the same location to be justified.
> 
> Until then....I do not see a valid arguement for a brand ...they all cost money...they all break down...they all cost to maintain....they all are used or not...I used mine 2 times far this winter. Cost Benefit is in my favor. But that could definitely change in a week.
> 
> We need real honest stats from all brands...types...years...hours, and snow density....


Excellent post. I really get a laugh out of brand evangelists, the real hard core ones.


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## 98234

I honestly just would like to know real cost/benefit ratios of equipment....maybe I’m losing money overall....but I have no way of knowing......we here can change that.


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## jsup

Paul.E.Wogg said:


> I honestly just would like to know real cost/benefit ratios of equipment....maybe I’m losing money overall....but I have no way of knowing......we here can change that.



Yep. That's why when someone says "what should I buy" there's a bunch of questions that get looked over many times, such as "how much snow do you get annually" , how much do you have to move, how wide is your driveway...

Ya know, try to determine frequency and intensity of usage, as well as the conditions, (paved, gravel, etc) before spitting out a make/model. Cost of ownership in a given geographic is good to have. I just spent $2K on a Simplicty, I'm probably an idiot. I could have done as well spending less money. I'm hoping it's as good EOD as I hear.


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## 98234

jsup said:


> Yep. That's why when someone says "what should I buy" there's a bunch of questions that get looked over many times, such as "how much snow do you get annually" , how much do you have to move, how wide is your driveway...
> 
> Ya know, try to determine frequency and intensity of usage, as well as the conditions, (paved, gravel, etc) before spitting out a make/model. Cost of ownership in a given geographic is good to have. I just spent $2K on a Simplicty, I'm probably an idiot. I could have done as well spending less money. I'm hoping it's as good EOD as I hear.


Agreed....

We need real understandable data for everyone.

Cost of equipment
Year of equipment
Type of equipment 
Brand
Model
Yearly maintenance 
Modifications made
Square feet/meters to clear
Depth of snow
Snowfall amounts total up to before clearing
Temperatures 2 hours up to before clearing..and rain/snow freeze 
Pavement..stone pavers...gravel...
Grade of driveway
Etc.
I do not pretend to know all the factors ..those are what comes to mind...some may not matter...
We should be able to create this data.....with at least 3? In close proximity to validate the same weather.
It’s good public information.
Hopefully save someone some $...not get oversold...or worse..undersold.

But...it’s a very complex equation.....but maybe boil it to basics to make it work...don’t know...just know for sure it must be confusing for a new home owner and new to this type of equipment...I would sure like to help them with real data.


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## Snowbelt_subie

Mtd is like the Chevy, Toyota,ford of snowblowers. 

Ariens, honda, simplicity are the Cadillac, Lexus, Lincoln.

Both will work but if you had to recommend something your probably going higher end.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## RedOctobyr

jsup, a coworker has a Simplicity, he's been very happy with it. His mom has a smaller version, hers has also been good. He did have a chute motor fail, unfortunately, but I think he got a car window motor, or something, as a less-expensive replacement. 

The Simplicity Power Boost system (variable auger-pulley size) sounds really cool, I wish my machine had that! Higher impeller speed, for more snow processing and throw distance, when it's light. And lower impeller speed, with more torque, when the snow gets deep and heavy, to avoid overwhelming the engine. It at least seems like a great idea. 

I had an MTD 640F for ~12 years. It wasn't fancy, but it was reliable, and it got worked fairly hard. I really only needed to replace wear items during that time (apart from a sheared woodruff key in the auger gearbox when I bought it). The bucket steel did start to bend at the front, presumably from me bumping into my front steps too often. But I reinforced that, and it was OK. When I sold it (at ~20 years old), I noticed a crack in the frame, I don't know how long it had been there. The plastic chute sounded iffy when blowing icy stuff, but it never broke or gave me any trouble. 

I'd be lying if I said my Ariens machines don't have advantages over it. There are definitely things that I prefer about them. But my biggest frustration with the MTD was probably the transmission slipping. I replaced the rubber wheel, cleaned the aluminum disk, etc, and sometimes it would still stop moving forward (without pushing as hard as I would hope), and just sit there, without spinning the wheels. 

Maybe it's a difference in transmission designs, or maybe I had something wrong on the MTD (it was before joining this site), but both Ariens will spin their wheels before the transmission will slip. That's a nice change, when driving into a big snowbank. 

I'm glad I've gotten to use other machines, but I can't complain about the MTD, it put in a lot of hard hours.


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## jsup

Paul.E.Wogg said:


> Agreed....
> 
> We need real understandable data for everyone.
> 
> Cost of equipment
> Year of equipment
> Type of equipment
> Brand
> Model
> Yearly maintenance
> Modifications made
> Square feet/meters to clear
> Depth of snow
> Snowfall amounts total up to before clearing
> Temperatures 2 hours up to before clearing..and rain/snow freeze
> Pavement..stone pavers...gravel...
> Grade of driveway
> Etc.
> I do not pretend to know all the factors ..those are what comes to mind...some may not matter...
> We should be able to create this data.....with at least 3? In close proximity to validate the same weather.
> It’s good public information.
> Hopefully save someone some $...not get oversold...or worse..undersold.
> 
> But...it’s a very complex equation.....but maybe boil it to basics to make it work...don’t know...just know for sure it must be confusing for a new home owner and new to this type of equipment...I would sure like to help them with real data.


Yep. More than "go buy X" if you want to get it right.


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## jsup

RedOctobyr said:


> jsup, a coworker has a Simplicity, he's been very happy with it. His mom has a smaller version, hers has also been good. He did have a chute motor fail, unfortunately, but I think he got a car window motor, or something, as a less-expensive replacement.
> 
> The Simplicity Power Boost system (variable auger-pulley size) sounds really cool, I wish my machine had that! Higher impeller speed, for more snow processing and throw distance, when it's light. And lower impeller speed, with more torque, when the snow gets deep and heavy, to avoid overwhelming the engine. It at least seems like a great idea.
> 
> I had an MTD 640F for ~12 years. It wasn't fancy, but it was reliable, and it got worked fairly hard. I really only needed to replace wear items during that time (apart from a sheared woodruff key in the auger gearbox when I bought it). The bucket steel did start to bend at the front, presumably from me bumping into my front steps too often. But I reinforced that, and it was OK. When I sold it (at ~20 years old), I noticed a crack in the frame, I don't know how long it had been there. The plastic chute sounded iffy when blowing icy stuff, but it never broke or gave me any trouble.
> 
> I'd be lying if I said my Ariens machines don't have advantages over it. There are definitely things that I prefer about them. But my biggest frustration with the MTD was probably the transmission slipping. I replaced the rubber wheel, cleaned the aluminum disk, etc, and sometimes it would still stop moving forward (without pushing as hard as I would hope), and just sit there, without spinning the wheels.
> 
> Maybe it's a difference in transmission designs, or maybe I had something wrong on the MTD (it was before joining this site), but both Ariens will spin their wheels before the transmission will slip. That's a nice change, when driving into a big snowbank.
> 
> I'm glad I've gotten to use other machines, but I can't complain about the MTD, it put in a lot of hard hours.


I said this before, I spent $600 on an MTD 18 years ago, sold it for $300 this year. It was in perfect shape, I keep my stuff impeccable. It served me well through blizzards and 24 inches of snow. It was a 5HP 24inch. I never had a problem. In fact, When I pulled the Auger lever, it still squeeked when it went into "gear", and the engine dropped RPM and came back, just like when it was new. IN FACT, I never knew the rubber wheels had to be replaced. It spun wheels like you said. But anyway I digress. 

As far as the Simplicity, my major concern was the dealer, more so than the brand. PLUS, I have to be honest, nothing I saw was as robustly built, and the fit and finish is IMPECCABLE. NOTHING. It had all the bells and whistles, and a guy I know owns a funeral home, where the sidewalk is up against the street, and the plow throws right on the sidewalk. SO the entire sidewalk is EOD tough. Tells me the Simplicity goes right through it. I'll see. There's been a redesign on the chute motors, they're better than years ago. 

I don't care what name plate someone buys, I really don't. As long as their given good advice based on their needs before making a purchase. Sometimes, that doesn't happen when it becomes about brand.


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## 98234

Snowbelt_subie said:


> Mtd is like the Chevy, Toyota,ford of snowblowers.
> 
> Ariens, honda, simplicity are the Cadillac, Lexus, Lincoln.
> 
> Both will work but if you had to recommend something your probably going higher end.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/]
> 
> I do not recommend rich spending ever. This is a forum...that people take advice from....I think I(we)have an obligation to recommend the most beneficial...we have the knowledge and experience to save others money.....cost/benefit.....not a brand.
> 
> As I said...until I see real data ...I cannot get behind any brand..make or model. Mine works for me currently...but overall may be costing money. Show me stats that proves one way or the other.
> 
> If this forum is promoting Brands.......I’m done here.


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## RedOctobyr

I'm not being flip. I think it would be great to have data like that. But it's difficult, in part because every single storm is different, even for people in the same region. 

Comparing just a single machine's performance between 2 storms can be challenging, like if you made a modification, and wanted to evaluate how much of a difference it made. 

If that data were available, I do think it would be great to see. But I expect that, more likely, you can mainly hope for anecdotal experience from owners. Which is imperfect, but I do think it would be short-sighted to ignore those experiences. 

Hopefully it won't be too off-putting to run into people here with brand preferences, as that will definitely happen. Heck, I have my preferences, based on my experience, though I attempt to be objective and reasonable.


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## jsup

Paul.E.Wogg said:


> I do not recommend rich spending ever. This is a forum...that people take advice from....I think I(we)have an obligation to recommend the most beneficial...we have the knowledge and experience to save others money.....cost/benefit.....not a brand.
> 
> As I said...until I see real data ...I cannot get behind any brand..make or model. Mine works for me currently...but overall may be costing money. Show me stats that proves one way or the other.
> 
> If this forum is promoting Brands.......I’m done here.


Paul, there's SOME promoting brands, but very little if you ask the right questions. I've seen FAR FAR worse in other places. Don't let this get your hair up.  It's not bad at all.

Some people ask questions here for peer validation, or to "belong" as they see it, not for information. For example "I've been looking at X,Y,Z brands, and I like "X"". When questions are posed about their application, and it's pointed out "X" doesn't fit said application, they go back and change their criteria to fit a pre determined position to fill their validation. That's nobody's fault but the person asking the question.

Anyway, stick around it's nice here.


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## Jatoxico

As far as MTD I call I as I see it. The new stuff are low cost mass production units. I own two pieces of equipment of this vintage and after doing maintenance and repairs I know what they are and what they are not.

I completely agree if the amount of anticipated use doesn't justify a higher end purchase then mostly they're fine and I would never ever look down my nose at someone who made the choice to go with one unless I thought they had unrealistic expectations as to what they were getting.

Example I just did a rewire of my generator transfer switch and bought a new inverter generator for the fuel economy and reduced noise over my standard gen-set. I love the Yamaha and the Honda is nice too. But after doing my research and considering the amount of use I expect I went with Champion. Saved a bunch. Besides they gave me a T-shirt!


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## RedOctobyr

Nice! I was fortunate enough to snag a great deal on a used Honda inverter. But based on a lot of reading for a hobby, many people had good experiences with their Champion inverter generators. I was going to get a refurbished Champion, before finding the deal on mine. 

And I recently sold my 5500W generator, just keeping the 2000W inverter. It runs what I need, is quiet, fuel-efficient, and means I now have 1 less engine to maintain. Apologies for straying off-topic. 

Agreed that picking an appropriate tool for the needs, is important. The suburban homeowner has different requirements than the person clearing a bunch of driveways commercially, or the person with a 500 foot driveway.


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## Jatoxico

RedOctobyr said:


> And I recently sold my 5500W generator, just keeping the 2000W inverter. It runs what I need, is quiet, fuel-efficient, and means I now have 1 less engine to maintain.


I'm right there with you! I find most people vastly over estimate their power needs and the 2000W will run for about 8-10 hrs on a gallon at 1/2 load. The Champion is a surprisingly well made little unit with some nice features.

5500W is my other one. Loud as @#$! Used it through Irene, Sandy and a no name local micro burst that was the scariest storm I've ever experienced. Anyone whose ever tried to feed one of those things gas for an extended outage knows what PITA that can be and who wants to keep 20+g of fuel on hand at all times?


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## tpenfield

Getting back to the snowblowers . . . I have a Troy-Bilt (MTD) and also Toro machines.

The Toro's are better out of the box, no question. 

The reason I bought the MTD (Troy-Bilt 2410) was price-point. . . $499 for a decent machine. It needed the impeller mod to be a good machine, but once that was done it could run with any machine. It is a bit more flimsy than the Toro, Ariens, and even the Husqvarna that I have, but it is strong enough to get the job done.

I think if you are going to buy a basic machine, then the mid-sized (24") MTD's are fine, but you probably want to do the impeller mod. . . . If you are going to get a fancier/bigger machine, then I think the money is better spent in the 'name brand' machines (Toro, Ariens, Honda, etc.), because the economy roots of the MTD's just don't live up to the higher price tags that go with the fancier machines, regardless of brand.


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## Snowbelt_subie

jsup said:


> Paul, there's SOME promoting brands, but very little if you ask the right questions. I've seen FAR FAR worse in other places. Don't let this get your hair up.  It's not bad at all.
> 
> Some people ask questions here for peer validation, or to "belong" as they see it, not for information. For example "I've been looking at X,Y,Z brands, and I like "X"". When questions are posed about their application, and it's pointed out "X" doesn't fit said application, they go back and change their criteria to fit a pre determined position to fill their validation. That's nobody's fault but the person asking the question.
> 
> Anyway, stick around it's nice here.


i think ariens and honda get alot of love around here we have lots of older people who have had good luck with them in the past. 

there is a reason its just not blind brand love ariens if you look at used equipment its flooded with older ariens even dating back to the late 60's early 70's that still work well.

honda in the 80's and 90's made really good high quality stuff that people are still using today that built the brand.

this forum is all about longevity and quality people here like to buy once or twice for a lifetime. 


that being said im not sure the new machines are really made like that anymore even ariens. the only one that might be is honda but they are major $$$$.


----------



## micah68kj

boxxer06 said:


> Yes it is


Nope. Murray is one co and mtd is another.


----------



## jsup

Snowbelt_subie said:


> i think ariens and honda get alot of love around here we have lots of older people who have had good luck with them in the past.
> 
> there is a reason its just not blind brand love ariens if you look at used equipment its flooded with older ariens even dating back to the late 60's early 70's that still work well.
> 
> honda in the 80's and 90's made really good high quality stuff that people are still using today that built the brand.
> 
> this forum is all about longevity and quality people here like to buy once or twice for a lifetime.
> 
> 
> that being said im not sure the new machines are really made like that anymore even ariens. the only one that might be is honda but they are major $$$$.


Fair points. But it's not the solution to every question. Not everyone needs a $1500-3500 machine. It just needs to be "good enough". People would rather buy 2 new machines for $800 than one for $1500. Whose to say what is right or wrong?

Isn't it more important to listen to what people have to say their needs are, and take into consideration the type and amount of snow they get, before trying to make a brand fit. Tell me what you need and I'll tell you which model of XXXX brand you need. That's not help, or information. That's just annoying. And that's what people have a problem with.


----------



## jsup

Let me ask this question, which I think goes directly to the OP's point.

When was the last time you saw a post that said:
*
"ya know, for your needs and budget, MTD fits, and will last years with proper maintenance. If you want to step it up to a more robust machine in terms of build quality and materials consider YYYYY brands"
*


----------



## Snowbelt_subie

jsup said:


> Fair points. But it's not the solution to every question. Not everyone needs a $1500-3500 machine. It just needs to be "good enough". People would rather buy 2 new machines for $800 than one for $1500. Whose to say what is right or wrong?
> 
> Isn't it more important to listen to what people have to say their needs are, and take into consideration the type and amount of snow they get, before trying to make a brand fit. Tell me what you need and I'll tell you which model of XXXX brand you need. That's not help, or information. That's just annoying. And that's what people have a problem with.



price is the #1 factor for alot of people i understand. They should set their budget on what they want to spend then go from there.

i am part of the SS revolution :grin:. i think for most people say 90% of the country Single stage machines are fine. where i live i consider snowier than most places. we get snowfalls for the year 70" to 120" per year. as long as you get a high quality higher HP single stage and now with the snowmaster available from toro as well. my single stages i have had have handled 3 winters here since i sold my 2 stage.

if you get snowfalls larger than 12" more than 5 times a year or a very large area to clean. you should look at investing in the premium 2 stage machine. what you want to spend should be first than the brand and specs you want after


----------



## jonnied12

jsup said:


> Fair points. But it's not the solution to every question. Not everyone needs a $1500-3500 machine. It just needs to be "good enough". People would rather buy 2 new machines for $800 than one for $1500. Whose to say what is right or wrong?
> 
> Isn't it more important to listen to what people have to say their needs are, and take into consideration the type and amount of snow they get, before trying to make a brand fit. Tell me what you need and I'll tell you which model of XXXX brand you need. That's not help, or information. That's just annoying. And that's what people have a problem with.


 I purchased my blower based on my situation and location. There are no dealers near me.
My driveway is very steep, 200 Ft. long, rough brushed concrete with a gravel parking lot at the bottom, and it transitions back to gravel at the top. I had to get a tracked blower.
I purchased it at Lowe's and paid extra for the Lowes 4 year Protection Plan.



50% Preventative Maintenance	Reimbursement from the date of your Protection Plan purchase on	select preventive mainenance items such as fuel stabilizer, filters,	belts, blades, batteries and more!
Parts and labor are covered 100%	on qualified repairs
For products $799 and over,* we'll pick up, repair, and return the product*
Repair Quick™, if we can't	repair it within 14 days, then Lowe's will send you a one-time	payment of $50
No Lemon Policy - If your	covered product requires a fourth repair, we'll replace it
Lowe's Outdoor Power Equipment	Protection Plans start the day you purchase them
Lowe's Protection Plans can be	transferred with the product to a new owner
No hassles or deductibles
Covers normal wear and tear
The best thing about this blower is the ability to set the bucket height with a lever.


----------



## KOBO

boxxer06 said:


> ...People like to bash MTD and that snowblower is as good as anything out there....




I have thought about posting the same observation.

A chronic case of tendinitis in both elbows forced me to downsize from a mid 80's vintage Bolens 824, which was a heavy beast that chewed through the heaviest hardest EOD mountains like a 4 year old would through cotton candy, to a much smaller and lighter MTD Yard Machine 24" blower we bought at Costco for about $450. 

Like Jack said, the sheet metal in the bucket is weak, it isn't uncommon for me to have to kick it straight where the ski's are if I butt up against a block of ice or such at the end of the drive, but the darn thing has impressed me with it's durability. It takes longer to get through the EOD stuff but it keeps chugging along.

I have had it I think 5-6 years now, always used synthetic oil after the break in, and it starts on the first pull each time. And, compared to my other beast, that little 179cc motor sips fuel.

For a few years we had some really bad storms and I was helping dig my extended family & neighbors out, doing the side walk on the full length of the street, etc, and I have probably used that machine more in the past 5-6 years than most homeowners would in 20 winters. 

To date I have replaced the spark plug and belts once and one broken drive cable. I also put poly shoes on it because during those years I would go through 2-3 sets of metal ones a winter, and a DIY impeller kit that helped immensely with the wet slushy stuff. The carb is just showing a need for cleaning, but a quick spray with carb cleaner after removing the bowl and float valve while it was still on the machine cleared most of that up. 

I'm wrapping up getting a mid 80's vintage Ariens 824 going which is similar in size and weight to my old Bolens and plan to use it as my main machine but I have no plan on parting with the little MTD. It earned its keep and doesn't owe me anything.

K


----------



## jtclays

never pay that much for a 3 month tool.


----------



## Toro-8-2-4

sscotsman said:


> No it isnt.  Murray has never been part of MTD. (not for snowblowers anyway.)
> 
> They started out as the Murray bicycle company in 1919, Not sure when they started making snowblowers, 1970's perhaps.
> 
> Then in 1988 they were aquired by a British company, then in 1993 the snowblower line was aquired by Noma, and we had Murray/Noma snowblowers for a time.
> 
> Then in 2005 they were purchased by Briggs & Stratton, and Murray snowblowers were made by B&S starting in 2005.
> 
> I think Briggs might have dropped the Murray name on snowblowers, perhaps just this year.
> 
> Scot


Murray was in Bankrupcy when Briggs Bought them back in 2005. I worked on a Murray Signature 8-24 and it was a solid machine. I would put it above an MTD of that Era but not quite a Toro. Snow King engine with a good sized impellar and thicker steel on the bucket and frame. I believe it had a cast iron auger gear case.
It has been a while since Murray has branded a snow blower. I think much longer than a year. Briggs also owns Snapper and in the last year or two they stopped production of the Snapper brand of snow blowers.
Briggs also owns Simplicity and that is their current snow blower brand.

You can still get parts for the Snapper and Murray through Briggs but it is getting harder the older it gets.


----------



## sscotsman

jsup said:


> Isn't it more important to listen to what people have to say their needs are, and take into consideration the type and amount of snow they get, before trying to make a brand fit.


yes, but that has nothing to do with brand.
I would word that: "Isn't it more important to listen to what people have to say their needs are, and take into consideration the type and amount of snow they get, before trying to make *any* snowblower recommendation"

but..once the needs are known, its perfectly fine to recommend one brand or brands, and not recommend other brands, because every brand will have a machine for 99% of needs.



jsup said:


> Tell me what you need and I'll tell you which model of XXXX brand you need. That's not help, or information.


I disagree, that is both help *and* information. 



jsup said:


> That's just annoying.


Why? I see no reason why that should be annoying..people can recommend what they think is best..if you disagree, you can recommend what you think is best.



jsup said:


> And that's what people have a problem with.


again..why? I see nothing to have a problem about..
I will always recommend Ariens, Toro and Honda..I will *never* recommend Cub Cadet, Troy Bilt, Craftsman, or any of the Chinese brands..I base that on a decade of research and listening to people on this forum.

If you disagree, fine! say what you recommend instead, and why..No need to "have a problem with it" or to "be annoyed"..

people are supporting MTD in this thread..fine! not a problem for me..
I dont support MTD, so I have simply stayed out of the discussion, until now.

The thing people sometimes forget..there really *is* a quality difference between brands. thats a real thing.

and there is nothing wrong with saying its a big deal if you think its a big deal..
and there is nothing wrong with downplaying it, if you think its less of a big deal..
but the difference cant be denied outright. 
How "big a deal" it is, is open to debate..which is really what this thread is about.

Scot


----------



## aldfam4

Jatoxico said:


> I'm right there with you! I find most people vastly over estimate their power needs and the 2000W will run for about 8-10 hrs on a gallon at 1/2 load. The Champion is a surprisingly well made little unit with some nice features.
> 
> 5500W is my other one. Loud as @#$! Used it through Irene, Sandy and a no name local micro burst that was the scariest storm I've ever experienced. Anyone whose ever tried to feed one of those things gas for an extended outage knows what PITA that can be and who wants to keep 20+g of fuel on hand at all times?


This got me thinking, Honda makes very good cars and snow blowers..., Toyota should get in on some of that snow blower action!!!


----------



## Clutch Cargo

Just finished reading the entire thread and thought I'd add my two cents. 

Prior to owning my MTD, I owned a couple of early 80s vintage Toros (3521 and 824). They were great machines in terms of build quality and performance. The former I sold because it wasn't big enough when we moved out of the city. The latter was big enough but tired and I didn't like the controls or the deadman. So, I traded it and $150 for a 10 year old MTD 8/26. In this neck of the woods, there is no way I could've gotten that much machine for so little. In the 13 years I've owned it, the machine has performed just fine and hasn't cost me any more than any other brand to maintain. It is not a brute, and I try not to push it too hard, but I think that is prudent with any piece of equipment. I have replaced the auger bushings and the main impeller bearing and as someone mentioned, the parts were pretty cheap. If you've read any of my other posts, you know that I've upgraded it with MTD parts salvaged from a boneyard to improve the ergonomics and have deflector control. Total cost - around $20. 

The first failure (non-scheduled repair) in 13 years occurred Wednesday night when the spring on the end of the drive clutch cable broke. Fixed it last night in about 45 minutes and the replacement cable (in stock locally) cost me $18. I did have to weld some cracks in the transmission housing and to me this is definitely the fault of the manufacturer in terms of not doing a proper FEA and/or reinforcing the stress area; so I'm happy to take MTD to task in that respect. In general though, I have nothing to complain about owning an MTD. 

Would I like to own the "Cadillac of snowblowers" (insert your favorite brand here)? Sure. Can I afford it right now? No. Would I but a new MTD? Probably not, mostly due to the fact that there is no fuel shut-off valve and no real estate to install one. Would I buy a late 90s/early 2000s MTD, yup if the price was right. 

Lastly, I have really enjoyed being a part of this forum, reading posts and contributing what I can but certainly not as much as some of the real aficionados and craftsmen who are members. I'm grateful for your knowledge and generosity. That being said, there have also seen some condescending and snide remarks made about MTD machines and while it doesn't bother me, but it isn't very helpful either.


----------



## 3vanman

boxxer06 said:


> Yes it is


Is it? I have an older Murray (1998) and a Craftsman II (I live in Canada) built by Murray, and in checking with MTD, they say they did not build these.
Also, did B&S not buy Murray? I know when looking for older Murray info, I frequently get a response from B&S, but denial from MTD.
Just curious...I will admit I am and still have a lot to learn about Snow Blowers, so any and all assistance is greatly appreciated.

As for MTD machines, I just finished rebuilding my brother in law's 12 year old MTD, and once the augers were straightened, the belts replaced and the oil changed, that machine is performing like new.


----------



## YSHSfan

aldfam4 said:


> Toyota should get in on some of that snow blower action!!!


I like this idea.....
Maybe I should put a small Toyota engine on my large ride-on snowblower project..... :grin:


----------



## sscotsman

3vanman said:


> Is it? I have an older Murray (1998) and a Craftsman II (I live in Canada) built by Murray, and in checking with MTD, they say they did not build these.
> Also, did B&S not buy Murray? I know when looking for older Murray info, I frequently get a response from B&S, but denial from MTD.
> Just curious...I will admit I am and still have a lot to learn about Snow Blowers, so any and all assistance is greatly appreciated.


Read post #12 and #14 in this thread. 

Scot


----------



## jsup

sscotsman said:


> yes, but that has nothing to do with brand.
> I would word that: "Isn't it more important to listen to what people have to say their needs are, and take into consideration the type and amount of snow they get, before trying to make *any* snowblower recommendation"
> 
> but..once the needs are known, its perfectly fine to recommend one brand or brands, and not recommend other brands, because every brand will have a machine for 99% of needs.


First off, thanks for a well thought out post. Glad to see thinking. 

Anyway, OK, I'll buy that. 




> I disagree, that is both help *and* information.


OK



> Why? I see no reason why that should be annoying..people can recommend what they think is best..if you disagree, you can recommend what you think is best.


I've stayed away for the most part from promoting a name, however there's a subtle (or maybe not so subtle) "frame the argument" that happens. The "All I know is you should buy something painted Red and starts with "H", but I'm not going to promote any particular model".. :devil: Pick any brand that fits that criteria.




> again..why? I see nothing to have a problem about..
> I will always recommend Ariens, Toro and Honda..I will *never* recommend Cub Cadet, Troy Bilt, Craftsman, or any of the Chinese brands..I base that on a decade of research and listening to people on this forum.


I know you're the kind of person who backs it up, and knows his stuff. Can you tell me how much of Ariens, Toro, or Honda is "made in China"? I forget what the exact percentage is, but manufacturers can bring all the parts into the USA from China, and if 60% (I forget the exact number) is assembled in the USA, it can be claimed "Made in the USA". In the case of a snowblower for example, the engine is an "assembly" and a part of the whole, just like a screw. So the engine, for example can be 100% made in china, put on a snowblower that is 60% assembled in the USA, and be called "Made in the USA". 

I can tell you from first hand experience, that just because something is made in china, it's automatically junk. Like anywhere else, you get what you pay for.



> If you disagree, fine! say what you recommend instead, and why..No need to "have a problem with it" or to "be annoyed"..


It's annoying in the same way "that guy"(and we all know one) can't finish a sentence without mentioning god, race, vegetarianism, sports, politics, environmental policy, finance, etc... 



> people are supporting MTD in this thread..fine! not a problem for me..
> I dont support MTD, so I have simply stayed out of the discussion, until now.


I don't think it's a question of support for a brand as it is tired of hearing what a POS MTD is when it has served people well. 

I cite the thread where one of the guys rebuilt his neighbor's MTD. The video shows it working well, however, his neighbor "heard" MTD was junk, but for $130 he got a refurbished machine.



> The thing people sometimes forget..there really *is* a quality difference between brands. thats a real thing.


I don't think anyone said differently or even trying to make that argument.



> and there is nothing wrong with saying its a big deal if you think its a big deal..


Fair enough. But when people just make things up, like Toro uses a lot of plastic, therefore a brand that is all metal is far superior, when there's no history of there being a problem with Toro plastic.  This is called framing the argument, and I'd submit on false pretense. 



> and there is nothing wrong with downplaying it, if you think its less of a big deal..
> but the difference cant be denied outright.
> How "big a deal" it is, is open to debate..which is really what this thread is about.
> 
> Scot


Agreed. 

However, I think the OP's point transcends this. I think MTD owners here, including the OP, are tired of being looked down upon. In the same way the Neiman Marcus shopper looks down on Target shoppers, or Walmart shoppers. Or the BMW driver looks down at Chevy drivers. I don't know if you see it or not, but I get that vibe sometimes, and I think the OP did too. 

And to sum up, if we're talking about quality gap, I think it's over rated, especially given the difference in price between them. Is product "X" worth double the price of product "Y" at twice the price? From a practical standpoint.

From a realistic standpoint there's an ass for every seat, my products are high quality products that sell for multiples of cheap mass produced competitors. I have to justify it every day. I get it. But most consumers aren't going to buy it. I'll only ever command a small percentage of the market with a high quality product, and those low quality products will be the bulk of the market. And for a lot of people, they work. 

see attached on this point.


----------



## RedOctobyr

jsup said:


> I know you're the kind of person who backs it up, and knows his stuff. Can you tell me how much of Ariens, Toro, or Honda is "made in China"? I forget what the exact percentage is, but manufacturers can bring all the parts into the USA from China, and if 60% (I forget the exact number) is assembled in the USA, it can be claimed "Made in the USA". In the case of a snowblower for example, the engine is an "assembly" and a part of the whole, just like a screw. So the engine, for example can be 100% made in china, put on a snowblower that is 60% assembled in the USA, and be called "Made in the USA".
> 
> *I can tell you from first hand experience, that just because something is made in china, it's automatically junk. Like anywhere else, you get what you pay for.*


Was a word missing from this? You said that things made in China are automatically junk, but that doesn't seem like it's in-keeping with the rest of the sentiment. 

I would not agree that everything made in China is junk, anyways, if that *is* what you were trying to state.


----------



## jsup

RedOctobyr said:


> Was a word missing from this? You said that things made in China are automatically junk, but that doesn't seem like it's in-keeping with the rest of the sentiment.
> 
> I would not agree that everything made in China is junk, anyways, if that *is* what you were trying to state.


Yes, good catch. Made in China does *NOT* automatically mean junk. Look at Predator engines for example, the IPHONE (costs $1000). You get what you pay for, no matter where it's made. Their factories are quite modern.


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## Toro-8-2-4

Some very thoughtful posts here. Brand loyalty can sometimes be like loyalty to a religion. Weather it is a snow blower, a car or some other product. Some people are just locked in solid for a variety of reasons and experiences. There is nothing wrong with loyalty as long as it is not totally blind.
It is great that on this forum we can have these discussions at length and generate some excellent observations, opposing opinions and comments.

Of all the forums I frequent this is one of my favorites.


----------



## The Q

I like reading blind loyalty posts because it reminds me of how NOT to conduct myself.


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## 98234

Honestly..great to see some healthy discussion. I stayed away for several days.....just felt I needed to speak my mind...not sure why.... Not like me. A little embarrassed.
But I’m glad it got people talking.....
Still looking for some kind of cost benefit....
This forum has the power to judge value for money.
I think we should....lots of experience...long term ownership...and all kinds of conditions.
Do we not owe it to the next purchaser to make an informed decision based on all our collective knowledge? And save some money.....but I do get some have lots of money and can go top end.....glad for them....wish I could.
And perhaps my choice of equipment is costing me money...wish I knew.
****.. my 91 year old Mom used a Toro 1 stage for years....in her 60’s and 70’s ..and rarely did I need to go and help finish....excellent machine for her.....light...and she could do several runs all day.....not like most of us that work all day and come home to a heap. ....except for White Jaun...I borrowed neighbors snowblower.....it did the job. The mound at the end of Mom’s driveway was 9 feet tall.....I kid not...but I got it done.....with whatever machine I used. Had I broke it....I would have replaced it. Awful storm....and once in a lifetime I hope.
I understand some people have better budgets...and perhaps typically get more snow....that demand a better and more costly machine.....but I just think we owe it to new comers...to help them make an informed decision.....based on fact....not brand loyalty.
Yep....I have Troy-bilt snowblower...hedge trimmer....(hard to start but works ok)...and lawn mower....and they all suit my purpose....all in budget. No complaints other than the fracking hedge trimmer. But I bought thr electric start for it.....but still takes forever...should have got different ... will do when it dies....my lesson in a brand loyalty....no longer have.
Lawn trimmer is a Canadian Tire job...weed eater I think....awful...until I researched....bought a carburetor tuning tool for 2 dollars from China...now....I would never part with it.
I look for what works....what’s readily available....and easily repaired in my area...or am able to repair myself. And my demand....of the machine. And willingness to maintain and fix on my own.


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## Dauntae

Been watching this thread, No real issues with how the MTD machines are and they do the job just fine, HOWEVER being one who fixes them, The snow blower itself is easy to work on and parts are plentiful as a lot of them are the same across a LOT of models BUT who ever designed the covers on those Power More engines should be covered in honey and tied down next to a fire ant colony LOL... There are a lot of the honda clones out there and all seem to have a bit of a puzzle method of getting to the engine but those PowerMore engines are the worst and not too many have a fuel shutoff nor a place to add one in. They do run well but if the engine needs work I cry a little when they roll a newer MTD in.


----------



## Clutch Cargo

> who ever designed the covers on those Power More engines should be covered in honey and tied down next to a fire ant colony LOL... There are a lot of the honda clones out there and all seem to have a bit of a puzzle method of getting to the engine but those PowerMore engines are the worst and not too many have a fuel shutoff nor a place to add one in.


I'll supply the honey, LOL. I am glad you mentioned this and that I am not the only one who noticed it. This design/execution flaw is what will keep me from buying a new Cub or Troy-bilt.


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## FlamingSpaghetti

I have one MTD from what appears to be 1996. While not the best machine out there and it certainly is no Ariens, it has served me well for years. I bought this machine used and haven't done much to it. Other than replace the worn skids, the scraper at the bottom, a new pull start cord and handle and paint the rust with some rust inhibitor, it's been pretty faithful. The 8HP engine on it has been the most reliable engine I've ever owned, fires right up every single time in the dead of winter and uses the least amount of oil out of all of my small engines. I beat the living **** out of this machine, it certainly receives the most abuse, but at the end of the day...err...season, it's the one machine that is perfectly happy with just a simple oil change.

Can't wait for next snow storm to try out my Craftsman.


----------



## Dannoman

*I Love My MTD*

I bought my MTD 10HP with the Tecumseh engine in 1999 and aside from routine maintenance there have been very few occasions where it let me down and needed repair. This week I fixed the pull rope and cleaned out the carb because of a no start but now it's running perfectly again. One thing I don't like is the design of the electric start which is mounted on two tabs you slide under the bolts on the engine housing and then bolt down two small bolt at the bottom of the casing onto the engine. One of the tabs on my electric start snapped off so I am currently fashioning a bracket to mount it back on. This is a common failure on these machines. It's not a biggie because it pulls and starts fine and I can pick up a used starter from a snowblower guy I know. Day in and day out, my MTD has been a reliable workhorse and I love it.


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## jtclays

good luck


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## Dauntae

jtclays said:


> 66 posts, and it's clear to me MTD made the best 8hp engine ever bolted together and Murray is an MTD product. Glad I read along:icon-deadhorse:


You spell MTD Tecumseh right lol


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## Snowbelt_subie

This is an mtd right? I believe it's a 2009 craftsman









Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## jtclays

5556665854745855656/*/9*1254455


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## Snowbelt_subie

jtclays said:


> It sure looks like an MTD engine to me:grin:......does the machine model number start with 536 and a bunch of part numbers have MA after them?



yep


----------



## Alphaomega

I have a (MTD) white 33 inch 13 hp since 2001. I haven't had a hitch. Great machines.


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## Kiss4aFrog

:welcome: to SBF Alphaomega

.


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## HCBPH

jtclays said:


> It sure looks like an MTD engine to me:grin:......does the machine model number start with 536 and a bunch of part numbers have MA after them?


Back in the days of flathead engines, most were either Tecumseh or B&S regardless of the brand of blower it was mounted to. Some brands even put their stickers on the engines (ever notice the Ariens A on the engine recoil cover), but it didn't change the fact who made them. Now most OHV's are Honda clones or variations on that in the OHV category. Whether it's labeled B&S, Loncon, Subaru or whatever, you're still limited to a few brands in reality and many have Honda to thank for much of their designs IMO (that's a personal opinion). 

It makes less difference who's label is on an engine, rather if it works for you or not.

Now to get back to the original intent: No matter who's label is on a blower, it's doubtful they made 100% of the parts that went into it. Whether it's hand grips, tires, bolts, friction discs, auger gearcases bushings and bearings and gears it very likely the same parts may be in a lot of different brand machines and that's the short list as there probably a lot more. Just like Chevy's and Cadillacs or Fords and Lincolns can have a lot in common (including parts), it's how that pile of parts are put together that makes a difference.
Every time someone complains about a particular brand, it's entirely possible some of the parts may be in their machines also, interesting consolation.


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## jtclays

HCBPH, I agree with you. My quote was meant as sarcasm to the "absolute" comments of people claiming Murray was MTD. I have worked on several machines for people that they complain about a and say they have "X" brand and never had a problem with it, wish the machine they brought me to fix had "X" brand engine too. When you explain to them it does have the same engine that look at you like your crazy:grin: One old timer in my parents neighborhood flat out told me I was wrong the engine in his John Deere tractor was a Briggs. "It's got a John Deere sticker right on top." Long story short the Briggs head gasket fit perfect and all the smoke went away:devil:


----------



## drmerdp

I just did a rejuvenation job on a tired 28" MTD Gold with a 357cc Powermore. Its 14 years old and the same model # as my dads 9 year old Identical machine. 

Its been heavily used and neglected. Touched on alot of things.

Carb, Impeller seals, LED upgrade, belts, shave plate, skids, friction wheel, axle bushings, oil change, Straightening a bunch of sheet metal, Twisting the chassis straight again, Additional bolts to handle bars, Replacing heavily rusted springs, Chute control lever trigger, Grease, paint, grease, oil, paint, grease, paint. 

Its back in business baby, been through ****, and ready for another decade of service. Worth noting, Parts are cheap.

These MTDs are not great at anything, but pretty darn good across the board. 

A word on thin sheet metal and flimsy Chassis's. My Honda is Rigid, and heavy. These MTDs are flexible, and light. I can appreciate how the flimsy MTDs flex and adjust to terrain.


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## tdipaul

Hey, Budweiser gets the job done too, and done well at that 

_I can appreciate how the flimsy MTDs flex and adjust to terrain_

Classic!!!

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## HCBPH

jtclays said:


> HCBPH, I agree with you. My quote was meant as sarcasm to the "absolute" comments of people claiming Murray was MTD. I have worked on several machines for people that they complain about a and say they have "X" brand and never had a problem with it, wish the machine they brought me to fix had "X" brand engine too. When you explain to them it does have the same engine that look at you like your crazy:grin: One old timer in my parents neighborhood flat out told me I was wrong the engine in his John Deere tractor was a Briggs. "It's got a John Deere sticker right on top." Long story short the Briggs head gasket fit perfect and all the smoke went away:devil:


 
NP. My reason for commenting is there are many that because they don't know, if they read it assume it's true which leads to other issues down the road. I really wish there was something we could use to signify "this is tongue in cheek" so people don't necessarily believe it's true just because someone said or wrote it. 


I've seen more than one joke that became a shouting match because someone told them this or that, and it likely in jest.
Just trying to insure everyone knows what's true vs what's stretching the facts or not.


No offense taken and hope you didn't take it other than an attempt to insure a newbee didn't take it other than as intended. Hopefully you noticed I never try and flat out call someone wrong. I try very hard to just lay out the facts as I know them and let people come to their own conclusions. I'm not perfect and I sure don't know everything but I try to pass along what I can when I can to make all of us (newbee or old timer) better and more knowledgable over time. Don't get me wrong, I learn thing from here also.


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## jtclays

Ifor


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## WisconsinDave

Harsh snowstorm hitting western Wisconsin this weekend. Blew the drive to go see a buddy this afternoon, was half drifted over 3 hours later.

Older MTD 12/33 with an impeller kit handled knee deep drifts just fine (if slow).


Can't beat the price, paid $600 delivered from a guy who flips them from Minneapolis, 4 years ago.


I've been watching 32" Honda's, but hard to justify the price when the old MTD keeps chugging away!


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## Copper116

I bought my MTD/Murray, used about 7 years ago here in West Michigan. It hasn't failed me yet. I haven't put hardly any money into it... just normal maintenance issues. i.e. skid shoes, oil, lube etc. 
I changed the oil every year until I switched to full synthetic oil. Now, every other year. I lube it, adjust it. I wipe it down every spring and completely spray it down with WD-40; >everything except the motor. It shines like new and has minimal surface rust that I've also repaired, requiring minimal work. It's been the best blower I've ever had. 
I think a majority of the complaint issues can be attributed to owners or "previous owners" that fail to maintain their equipment properly... I could be mistaken but I know that I've taken good care of mine and it's returned the favor many years now.


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## HCBPH

Maintenance is everything, whether a car, house or snowblower. There's unit out there 40+ yrs old still running strong and new units that fail in a year or two. I have not mentioned though some things just fatigue with age and break regardless of maintenance, that's life. I just lost a rod in a 40 year old engine, I can't complain other than having to find another engine. It lived a good life so what can you say.


Keep something up, regardless of what it is and it likely will live up to peoples expectations.


My opinion.


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## Kiss4aFrog

:sigh: Better quality will live longer and put up with more abuse but my Troy (MTD) get's the job done just fine.

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## db130

Snowbelt_subie said:


> This is an mtd right? I believe it's a 2009 craftsman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I'm about 3 months late, but that's a unit made by Murray. And probably closer to 2002/2003 than 2009.


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## Dusty

boxxer06 said:


> 20 YEARS AGO I SOLD MY WHITE(MTD) SNOWBLOWER TO A GOOD FRIEND THAT LIVES NEAR CLEVAND OHIO BY LAKE ERIE AND IT GETS PLENTY OF USE AND TO THIS DAY HE STILL HAS NOT HAD ONE ISSUE AT ALL.People like to bash MTD and that snowblower is as good as anything out there.So please let all the bashing go in one ear and out the other ear and enjoy your MTD'S


I have owned lots of MTD made machines. I have personally found that the stuff they made 20-30 years ago was great equipment. However much of their newer stuff made in the last 10 years, maybe 15 tops is not near the same quality as the older stuff first mentioned. Things I have personally seen is much thinner gauge metal used now. Pulleys made of cheap plastic vs metal ones, where some of the metal pulleys last as long as the machine, where some of these new pulleys fail after 3 years. Cheap low grade bushings and bearings that fail rather quickly. Those are just a few of the things I have noticed. Many other manufacturers are using cost efficient parts now as well, but simply not as cheap as the parts made and used by MTD. Also Troy Bilt and Bolens were once brands made by a company called Garden way out of Troy NY. I had a Troy Bilt Tomahawk chipper made by them. It was regarded as on of the best residential chippers they ever built. After MTD bought out garden way, the Tomahawk was cancelled. If you compare the Gardenway TroyBilt Snowblower to the MTD made one, the Gardenway one is of much higher quality. Also Bolens, their are some older Garden way Bolens Tractors that were regarded as top notch machines and have a following. MTD took Bolens and turned it into their base entry level brand. Those are my personal observations of MTD. So when someone says they have an early 90's MTD blower still going strong, I believe it, they built them well back than. However in recent years they have purchased 3 dozen brands and have lowered the quality of all of them and since they are a huge competitor with all those brands, they get away with it no problem.


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## Dusty

db130 said:


> I'm about 3 months late, but that's a unit made by Murray. And probably closer to 2002/2003 than 2009.


Your correct, that machine has nothing to do with MTD. Thats a Murray/Noma.
Around 2011 Sears stopped using Murray/Noma for their snowblowers and they stopped using AYP for their lawn tractors and lawn mowers. They switched over to MTD at that time. You will find the Sears brand farm and garden equipment sold before MTD took over to be of overall much higher quality. I have had several early 90's Sears Tractors that were built by AYP that were still going strong as of recently. I also had a 1995 Sears Murray/Noma Snowblower it was an 8/28 similar to the one in the photo that was also of very good quality. The ones sold now are not the same unfortunately. Murray/Noma used to build the old school 3 stage drift breaker snowblowers that sears used to sell as well. The old Suburban Sears tractors were built by Roper and are regarded as the best of all the tractors Sears ever sold.


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## drmerdp

I secretly like my dads 2009ish 28” MTD Gold. I bought him that blower before I knew anything about snowblowers. Blows snow just fine, up and down my parents crazy steep driveway. 

Infact, it’s thin sheet metal with lots of flex does a great job hugging the contours of the driveway. Cleans very effectively. LoL

Also, Impeller seals did wonders for its performance.


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## vmax29

Absolutely loved the Troy Bilt Storm Tracker. It got me through many years and some big blizzards.


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## Cutter

db130 said:


> I'm about 3 months late, but that's a unit made by Murray. And probably closer to 2002/2003 than 2009.




I agree....I had a 1998 Sears built by Murray/Noma.......looks identical. Wonderful machine!:smile2:


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## 132619

think we are seeing people talk about old and new, troy bilt. 

troy bilt and bolens were really garden way brands till sept 2001 when gardenway became mtd, 
https://support.troybilt.com/s/article/218-1?language=en_US


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## 132619

little more history about the troy bilt name 
https://pressurewashr.com/how-the-troy-bilt-brand-was-built/


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## Cutter

boxxer06 said:


> 20 YEARS AGO I SOLD MY WHITE(MTD) SNOWBLOWER TO A GOOD FRIEND THAT LIVES NEAR CLEVAND OHIO BY LAKE ERIE AND IT GETS PLENTY OF USE AND TO THIS DAY HE STILL HAS NOT HAD ONE ISSUE AT ALL.People like to bash MTD and that snowblower is as good as anything out there.So please let all the bashing go in one ear and out the other ear and enjoy your MTD'S



I think that, 20 years ago, everything was better.....especially my wife. Now she reminds me of a wounded badger. :sad2:


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## RedOctobyr

Yeah, but what do you remind her of?


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## nwcove

Cutter said:


> I think that, 20 years ago, everything was better.....especially my wife. Now she reminds me of a wounded badger. :sad2:


dont be dissin the wife !! i always address mine as hun ! Attilla the......
:wink2:


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## 132619

nwcove said:


> dont be dissin the wife !! i always address mine as hun ! Attilla the......
> :wink2:


i call mine by her mothers name, as she acts just like her .


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## Cutter

RedOctobyr said:


> Yeah, but what do you remind her of?



Prey.:sad2:


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## Kw10/22

boxxer06 said:


> 20 YEARS AGO I SOLD MY WHITE(MTD) SNOWBLOWER TO A GOOD FRIEND THAT LIVES NEAR CLEVAND OHIO BY LAKE ERIE AND IT GETS PLENTY OF USE AND TO THIS DAY HE STILL HAS NOT HAD ONE ISSUE AT ALL.People like to bash MTD and that snowblower is as good as anything out there.So please let all the bashing go in one ear and out the other ear and enjoy your MTD'S


AHH most of em bashing are ariens owners that do not know any better. My made in usa mtd blowers been going for 25 years on the old one and 15 plus on my newer one. They certainly are as good as any except a honda.


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## Lottstodo

As I have talked to reps for both AYP and MTD you have to keep in mind that both of these companies are building products, that has spec'ed for a certain price range and as well for certain levels of quality, and companies like sears , troybilt etc. to use their brand name reputation to get people to buy something from them that they do not even build themselves anymore.. 

The nuance difference that you may see between Troybilt, Craftsman etc. may be different engine models, or size, brands, or lights, and at times a direct request by ? that their model have this and not that. It is all about selling the name and reaping profit. MTD and AYP both make some models of all equipment that will rank with some of the very high end machines built by Honda , Ariens etc. But that equipment is not being branded for Craftsman or Troybuilt, Husqvarna, Poulan and the list goes on. 

When Craftsman built their own stuff it was solid, built like a tank. Many other companies that built their own stuff built their name with it.
Then they jumped out of the MFG. game and became a middleman to sell copy cat cross brand name lookalikes. 
That is why I chose Ariens because they built what I purchased, designed it, and marketed it with their name and reputation on the line for it, and all done here in the good ole USA.


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## sscotsman

Ok, now we are bashing mythical forum members who dont even exist, by people who have been here one day. I think this thread has run its course.

Scot


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## Kiss4aFrog

Kw10/22 said:


> AHH most of em bashing are ariens owners that do not know any better. My made in usa mtd blowers been going for 25 years on the old one and 15 plus on my newer one. They certainly are as good as any except a honda.


:welcome: to SBF Kw10/22

You might want to go a little easy on the assumptions as most of the people in the discussion have a variety of machines. We aren't supposed to bash any brand but we all have our preferences.
I have a Troy (MTD) 2009 2410 Blower and a Troy-Bilt Horse Tiller. The quality of the tiller is miles away from the snowblower as the tiller really was built by Troy. That snowblower has taken a lot of abuse clearing my 300' gravel driveway year after year without letting me down but it's not as good as the older Ariens machines I have or the Craftsman (Noma) 1032 3 stage. I have two Toro Powershifts and they two seem heavier and better built than the Troy.
But as mentioned there are price points and there are also companies trying to continue to make a profit off a reputation built up years ago when that product was actually built by the company with it's name on it and it earned the reputation because it was robust.
I think of the Troy as a cheep machine and that's not fair as it's done a heck of a job keeping me able to reach the street and with only normal maintenance. I always recommend what I consider a better machine if someone is asking but if they can only afford a Spirit or Murray, or Huskee it's still better than a shovel and if taken care of should take care of them. I just don't expect the same great customer service that Toro, Ariens and Honda provide. I haven't looked at the Honda site but with Ariens and Toro they have parts diagrams and manuals on line for free to look at or download. I know I can still get parts for my 70's Ariens. I've had great difficulty just finding info on some of the Spririt (MTD) machines. Yes, I have one of those too.

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## Kiss4aFrog

Lottstodo said:


> When Craftsman built their own stuff it was solid, built like a tank.
> 
> That is why I chose Ariens because they built what I purchased, designed it, and marketed it with their name and reputation on the line for it, and all done here in the good ole USA.


I could be wrong but I don't think "Craftsman" is anything but a brand. I don't think there ever was a Craftsman manufacturing plant making Craftsman products. Same with "Kenmore" appliances. Sears sourced products and had them labeled for them.
I think that 1032 Driftbreaker I have is a 70's and it's a Noma with a Craftsman badge.

But anyway, I guess we are a bit snobbish as where here, we're focused on snowblowers, we likely over maintain them, have too many of them (in most cases) and are a little snobbish about them the same way if you go on a Ford Mustang site and you have a stock fox body mustang you aren't going to get the love a Shelby 500 would. :wink2:

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