# HS624 Hydrostatic Transmission Shaft Gear Splines Stripped...



## ZOMGVTEK

I picked up a cheap HS624 as a backup for a HS828 that runs wonderfully. I beat on it for 10 minutes when I got it home, and it worked fine. The next day I was 95% done clearing a dusting off the driveway when it quit moving. The shaft off the transmission spins, but the axle does not. Today, I pulled the thing apart, and found the splined gear on the transmission and transmission shaft stripped.

I did a quick google search and don't see this being nearly as common as the pin on the axle breaking. Anyone have any advice to repair this? My current idea is to weld it in place. I'm assuming its feasible to limit the heat the shaft sees by the seals and internals. However, if its not so bad to get the shaft out I could just pull it. Not sure what the parts are made out of, and if welding is going to be problematic.

Ideas?










Looks like this unit is HS624K1 WA/A SNOW BLOWER, JPN, VIN# SZAJ-2000001 TO SZAJ-2021945

The gear is 23421-767-C30 GEAR, DRIVE (11T)
The shaft is 23236-VD6-871 SHAFT, CROSS

Prices are reasonable to just replace the parts. Anyone have any comments if this is worth pursuing? Does that shaft come out without a huge mess? Presumably this would mean bleeding the trans?


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## 404

Clean and degrease the parts perfectly clean and try JB Weld. What is left of the splines will give lots of surface area for bonding. Apply into the splines on both parts.


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## Zavie

I would just tack weld it. You could also drill through the gear and shaft and put a roll pin in there. Either way that would give you time to run it this season. If it runs good then go for the "real" repair and order the parts.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I was thinking of drilling the shaft and putting a pin in, thats easy and will surely work short term. I just wonder if its going to hold up long term. The JB weld would be the way to go if I needed this thing running right away.

This is a second blower, I just tuned up my primary one and it runs terrific. It's really amazing how much better these 10+ year old Honda's run compared to the brand new Ariens I've used before. Strange, since people appear to talk highly of Ariens, yet my experience with them is rather poor. I'd have a hard time using a friction disc blower now.

Now that I see the parts are not so crazy priced, I suppose I will try and weld it. If it explodes, I will be replacing both parts anyways. Anyone open up one of these transmissions? How tricky is it to remove that shaft?


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## ZOMGVTEK

The gear is rather hard, so drilling it with a HSS drill is not going to work out. I know I can get a hole through it at work, then I would still need to drill the shaft off the transmission by hand.

If that fails, I will just have a hole to help weld the gear onto the shaft in addition to the end.


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## 404

The weld will shrink and tend to crack. JB Weld will have more surface area and less introduced stress to the fix.


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## db9938

I would also look at that seal and the condition of the fluid. The stuff that looks like mud, could be contaminated HST fluid from a leaky seal.


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## ZOMGVTEK

The hydro fluid was at the right level and the right color in the reservoir. I was planning on brimming the reservoir and draining some out the bottom to get a peek of whats going on inside. The seals look good at an external glance.

I'm suspecting the gunk on the side of the trans is from the reduction box. Is the grease inside the reduction box typically normal thick grease consistency? The stuff in my box was like honey, and there was a LOT of it, it poured all over the place. Is this normal? It looked nothing like the one in donnyboy's video on the big gear pin. I have a strong reason to suspect its been opened before, since someone ran RTV on one protrusion on the cover. The seals looked fine to me, so the previous owner might have replaced them, and probably knew about the gear issue. Although the guy I purchased it from claimed to have received this blower from a guy that owed him money and he never used it.

The blower was in really great condition, but obviously sat some years, and required some serious lubrication on the moving bits. Something is a little gunked it would appear. The idle surges without a load. I pulled the bowl and blasted some carb cleaner around, and coated the governor linkage with silicone. Didn't fix it. The surge mostly goes away with a light load, and it's obviously running lean.

I think I'm going to continue with the roll pin idea, and JB weld in addition to take up the slack. The splines are still good at both ends of the shaft, so if I can get away with jamming the gear full onto the shaft and not have clearance issues, it will locate itself quite well. There is a fair bit of wobble on the far end that a little bit of epoxy can take care of. Or I could just ditch the pin idea and try out JB Weld alone. It's not that hard to get it torn down to this point...


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## bosco659

I would tack weld the gear to the shaft. Looks like it's done anyway so if the weld won't hold you can replace the shaft and gears. JB weld?? Not so sure that it would work but can hurt trying if other options don't work. Good luck and let us know how you make out.


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## Apple Guy

JB Weld would be 110% worthless. You are talking major PSI load on that part, then add shock loading to the mix. 

Get it welded with a full size welding machine, not a little sheet metal welder. Then we will see if the gear material at least on THIS gear is weldable. Of course heat sinking and cooling between welds is critical with a seal so close.

EDIT: Looking at that part again, if you do weld it by a wire feed (MIG) you will have to file at the gear openings since there is very little area for a large weld. A TIG would work here but prep time and the risk factor for failure is high here you might as well spend that money on new parts.

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## ZOMGVTEK

I'm more concerned about thermal stresses with an epoxy, as this part will see in excess of 100º temperature swings over the course of a year. Right now its single digit negatives, and its supposed to drop down to double digit negatives. If its glued in these temps, will it hold up when its sitting in a hot garage or shed? I could heat it while its glued, but I don't know how much that helps my chances if its primarily used in cold weather.

I'd have to borrow a TIG, which is why I was leaning towards drilling it. At least that way the gear would still be semi floating and the only failures should be a sheared pin or cracked gear. Both of which I think are unlikely given that this appears to have a reasonable reduction ratio.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Looks like I broke a shear pin on my 828. Now I have two broken snowblowers.

I'll go see if I can find a replacement locally. Might be tricky, its the odd one with the shoulder for the impeller.


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## Shryp

Take the one off your other blower?


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## ZOMGVTEK

The other one already had the random bolt mod.

Looks like the Husqvarna Shear Pin's have a 12mm shoulder, whereas Honda is 10mm. Thats the closest thing I could find locally. I'm not sure who sells Honda blowers nearby. They are quite uncommon. I'll just wait for the ones I ordered to show up. I could always just run a crummy bolt in there if need be.


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## 404

Apple Guy said:


> JB Weld would be 110% worthless. You are talking major PSI load on that part, then add shock loading to the mix.
> 
> Get it welded with a full size welding machine, not a little sheet metal welder. Then we will see if the gear material at least on THIS gear is weldable. Of course heat sinking and cooling between welds is critical with a seal so close.
> 
> EDIT: Looking at that part again, if you do weld it by a wire feed (MIG) you will have to file at the gear openings since there is very little area for a large weld. A TIG would work here but prep time and the risk factor for failure is high here you might as well spend that money on new parts.
> 
> .


Please share your load and stress calculations with us.


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## 404

ZOMGVTEK said:


> I'm more concerned about thermal stresses with an epoxy, as this part will see in excess of 100º temperature swings over the course of a year. Right now its single digit negatives, and its supposed to drop down to double digit negatives. If its glued in these temps, will it hold up when its sitting in a hot garage or shed? I could heat it while its glued, but I don't know how much that helps my chances if its primarily used in cold weather.
> 
> I'd have to borrow a TIG, which is why I was leaning towards drilling it. At least that way the gear would still be semi floating and the only failures should be a sheared pin or cracked gear. Both of which I think are unlikely given that this appears to have a reasonable reduction ratio.


I assumed there was a place to take it inside while the epoxy sets. It will not set in the cold. I work on my blower in the kitchen. My wife is a tender Goddess.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Yeah, I could haul it into the kitchen. The things covered with snow and ice thats rather contaminated with grease, gas, and whatnot. It would probably make a mess, and I hear people complain about those kinds of things. I have a heater for the garage, but it's not insulated so in these temps its still not that warm.

If carbide in a VMC can't drill that gear, I'll consider other options. Then it's just a matter of drilling the shaft by hand, but it shouldn't be so bad.


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## Apple Guy

404 said:


> Please share your load and stress calculations with us.


You are not certified to see those calculations. 

.


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## 404

ZOMGVTEK said:


> Yeah, I could haul it into the kitchen. The things covered with snow and ice thats rather contaminated with grease, gas, and whatnot. It would probably make a mess, and I hear people complain about those kinds of things. I have a heater for the garage, but it's not insulated so in these temps its still not that warm.
> 
> If carbide in a VMC can't drill that gear, I'll consider other options. Then it's just a matter of drilling the shaft by hand, but it shouldn't be so bad.


I expect carbide will work, then put the gear on the shaft and use the hole in the gear as a drill guide.


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## groomerz

LOL Appleguy I guess this splined shaft and gear would be the next weakest link after the drive pin as you said in my previous post of welding drive axle in "928 first impressions" There has to be some crazy torque from the hydro drive unit. do you think cold hydro fluid could cause excess torque? I wonder if anyone operating these units has actually had the relief valve release.


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## ZOMGVTEK

The thing generates a ton of torque for sure. I was beating up my 828 quite hard shortly after picking it up, and was assuming its fine since its 10 years old. I was saying to myself 'It's been doing this for 10 years' while I was abusing it. I 'find' my porch stairs by running into them and its obvious it has possibly even excessive torque for a tire unit. But it does make a nice noise when the hydro loads up. Theres a fairly significant speed reduction from that big gear that the pin 'commonly' fails on, to this splined gear. The splined gear needs to transmit less torque, so its likely dramatically stronger than the pin in the larger one. Although the splined gear more or less floats on the unsupported shaft, so it can wobble about and wear until it slips like my 624 did.










This was about a week or two after I picked up the 828. I cleared the driveway late the night before, it was down to concrete. I woke up the next morning to this. It's really surprising how slow it was to get that path when the snow is twice the height of the bucket. The thing just wanted to clog, since the chute wasn't high enough to get the snow over the wall. Later that day the snow was a few feet higher, and we got about another foot the next day. I normally try and keep on top of things so I don't have a huge wall to deal with, but when it falls overnight theres not much to be done. I was rowing the thing between full reverse and forwards for hours to clear this initial dusting. I was fairly hard on the thing and so far its been running great. It's silly some ice chunk I didn't even see took out the shear bolt compared to the prior abuse. I put an honest 10-12 hours of hard use on it over the few days around that storm. My aftermarket light fell off while I was scuba diving with the blower to get to the furnace vent, but otherwise it worked great.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I managed to pop a hole in the gear, no problem. The 1/8" roll pin is a rather snug fit as intended. Now I just need to be able to drill the shaft on the trans with a hand drill.

McMaster claims 1,400lb breaking strength for run of the mill steel roll pins. They have one in the same size that claims 2,100 lb. I'll grab those.

I plan on testing it out by running into into a wall and slowly increasing speed until the tires spin.


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## ZOMGVTEK

That shaft drilled like butter, which might be part of the problem. I'll order some fancy roll pins, 5/8" long, and try to get it back together.


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## Zavie

You could also use a hardened taper pin. That would be solid all the way through.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Yeah, but thats a whole lot more difficult to get it to fit just right, especially when its cold outside and whatnot. I'm thinking the roll pin will probably be fine, even the garden variety. But I'm getting stuff from McMaster anyways, so I might as well spring for the Mil-Spec one. 2,100lb sounds reasonable enough, especially since the thing worked totally fine under my brief abuse before it failed and it was in quite poor condition. But it might just end up failing immediately. Then I'd probably move towards something like a taper pin, welding, or both.


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## Zavie

Sounds like a great plan, rock on.


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## Apple Guy

ZOMGVTEK said:


> That shaft drilled like butter, which might be part of the problem. I'll order some fancy roll pins, 5/8" long, and try to get it back together.



Can you tell us how you drilled directly center on top of a gear tooth? Nice job!!!


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## PixMan

Apple Guy said:


> Can you tell us how you drilled directly center on top of a gear tooth? Nice job!!!


I'll go out on a limb an guess that it's an odd number of teeth and it's _at the root of the tooth_ on the opposite side.

Great job and exactly how I would have done it.


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## ZOMGVTEK

It's an odd number, and probably a fair part of the problem when I attempted to drill by hand. The teeth just knocked the edges off my drill. I'd say this is 'possible' to drill by hand, but you'd really want some rigid mounting, colbalt or carbide drill, and a drill press. I did it in one of those newfangled vertical machining centers and put a flat on the tooth with an endmill before drilling since I didn't know the hardness. I believe it was a 9 second drilling op, rather conservative. With how easy it drilled, it shouldn't be an issue to drill straight through so long as its perfectly centered to avoid sideways forces from making the drill bend. If I was doing it by hand on something like a bridgeport, I would just run the drill straight through and start centered on the top of a tooth.


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## PixMan

So you work in a machine shop too?

I have the strange trait of doing it for a living and as a hobby. It does may the day go by faster when you love what you do.


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## ZOMGVTEK

It's back together and running. I was breaking it in clearing a path in the backyard, ran it into a few walls and no signs of trouble. The auger lever sticks a bit halfway down, so sometimes it engages if i'm backing up for a while. I didn't look into that yet. I'm probably going to replace the carb since it runs lean and surges at idle, all speeds. That's easier than pulling it to rebuild.

I don't quite work at a machine shop. I'm an engineer that decided we should be making our own parts. It kinda turned into a professional hobby.


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## ZOMGVTEK

In case anyone was wondering what a questionable repair looked like...



















I think I put enough grease in.


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## Zavie

Good to go and nice work.


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## dhazelton

Take the main jet out of the carb. Remove the airbox, shroud and bowl and you will see the main jet sticking up slightly through the air intake. unscrew the plug holding it in with a small flat blade screwdriver from underneath. Put your hand under the carb and with that screwdriver press downward on the top of the jet and it should drop into your hand. It has holes that are small, as in microscopically small. Blast that with carb cleaner and take a fine wire (I used a wire from a trash bag zip tie) and clean all the holes so you can see through them. You should be good to go at that point.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I already did everything on the Honda carburetor check sheet, which included pulling the main jet and blasting it. Still surges and runs the same as it did before I opened the carb.

I suppose I could pull the carb and give it a good blasting. This carb check sheet is quite nice, and shows the passages and what to clean for this condition. The carb internally looks very clean. The gas tank looks good, but does have some small bits of junk on the bottom. The screen looks fine on the drain, so presumably that'd block most of it, but something might be lodged somewhere.


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## jrom

ZOMGVTEK said:


> The gas tank looks good, but does have some small bits of junk on the bottom. The screen looks fine on the drain, so presumably that'd block most of it, but something might be lodged somewhere.


I went through the same scenario a couple of years ago with my HS828 - cleaned the carb the same way you did - and no fix. I had some junk on the bottom of my tank and I didn't want to disassemble it so I drained the gas from the carb bowl nut, then inverted/wrapped some ductape on the bottom of a scrap piece of wood, and dabbed all the junk out. Stopped surging after that and hasn't surged since.


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## Apple Guy

ZOMGVTEK said:


> In case anyone was wondering what a questionable repair looked like...
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I hope the pin holds. Is that Valvoline synthetic grease?????


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## jrom

Apple Guy said:


> Is that Valvoline synthetic grease?????


I was wondering the same thing. I'd like to know what the best grease is, especially for low temps and high (or higher than normal) moisture.


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## Kiss4aFrog

You'll get different answers but something synthetic like Mobil1, Valvoline and some even use Marine grade as it's a bit more resistant to water.


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## c3po

Kiss4aFrog said:


> You'll get different answers but something synthetic like Mobil1, Valvoline and some even use Marine grade as it's a bit more resistant to water.


 I have some Mobil 1 Grease, I have a Honda 928WAS snow blower that is 14 years old, wondering if I should put some grease in mine, or if its not broke don't fix it, anyone have any thoughts.


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## Kiss4aFrog

I'm from the fix it or maintain it before it breaks school of thought. BUT, there are times going in to do maintenance you break something so ......

The longer you own it the more I think maintenance of things the manufacturer never identified or listed as needing maintenance or it's "lifetime" become important to take care of. I'm sure the guy who designed my '69 Ariens never thought it'd still be getting used 45 years later.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I have 3 uses on it since the repair. So far so good. My 624 has a more clearly defined 'neutral' than my 828, but it could just be since I oiled everything that moves. It also feels like it has less backlash than my 828. I frequently run it one handed and row it backwards and forwards to clean areas a little wider than the bucket. My 624 moves noticeably slower than my 828, which makes it easier to use. I don't see any problem engaging the drive at full forward speed, it won't do a wheelie like my 828 does. It struggles to throw light stuff clear across the driveway, which is no problem on my 828. I'm considering doing the single stage flap mod on the impeller.

I'll probably take the carb off and bring it in to work to give it an ultrasonic bath and air blast. It's annoying how much it surges at all speeds without a load.

The grease was whatever I had laying around. I looked for thin grease, but couldn't find any locally. It's obvious whatever was in there was not factory, it was really thin. The inside of the case and everything in it has some pitting, so presumably it had some significant corrosion at one point. It makes me want to open up the 828 when it warms up.

I'm thinking a 10+ HP 24" wide that throws flakes 60'+ would be ideal.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I'm curious who follows the recommended transmission warmup and holds the thing in neutral for 30 seconds before using it.

I personally prefer to start it full throttle/choke, move it to half throttle, wait 30 seconds, engauge the transmisson in neutral for ~15 seconds, then start moving some snow at half throttle, and slowly increase the throttle to full over the next minute or two. If it's into the negatives I wait a little longer. My gas jugs are full of 93 octane, and I generally premix 100:1 with citgo sea and snow on all 4T equipment with a carb.


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## c3po

ZOMGVTEK said:


> I'm curious who follows the recommended transmission warmup and holds the thing in neutral for 30 seconds before using it.
> 
> I personally prefer to start it full throttle/choke, move it to half throttle, wait 30 seconds, engauge the transmisson in neutral for ~15 seconds, then start moving some snow at half throttle, and slowly increase the throttle to full over the next minute or two. If it's into the negatives I wait a little longer. My gas jugs are full of 93 octane, and I generally premix 100:1 with citgo sea and snow on all 4T equipment with a carb.


 I am the one who holds it in neutral for 30 seconds before using the machine.

I usually start my snow blower up and I let it idle for a minute or two on full choke, I will then move it to run and if it is surging then I put it back to full choke and run it another minute and then I can put it to run and there is no surging. I then hold the drive lever down with it in neutral for 30 seconds or so.

I am guessing citgo sea and snow is some kind of 2 cycle oil, I use some MMO ta lube up the ethanol gas, I do notice that my spark plug stays spotless and I never have any trouble with the carburetor getting dirty or not running right.

I always store my snow blower with the transmission lever on the back bottom of the snow blower in the released position just in case someone moves the machine in the garage or shed. I am guessing it is not a good idea to manually push the machine in the engaged position if the machine is not running.

I mentioned in another thread that I have been using this machine on 3 other driveways besides my own for the last 14 years so I am thinking about getting a shop manual and opening the case up to see how the grease looks.


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## dhazelton

There's a recommended warmup? Uh oh.....

Are you in East Aurora or thereabouts that you got that kind of snowfall? I think come spring I'll be taking a look at my HS624, a $160 auction buy. Last time I used it I'm going along and suddenly no motion. I look down and a wheel fell apart. It has the split rims and I put new tires on a month ago, but I didn't use locktite on the 4 bolts that hold the sandwich together. A pain in the butt putting the wheel back together when it's 20 degrees out and your hands are frozen.


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## ZOMGVTEK

My 828 was serviced right before I purchased it, and the guy he took it to put in a BR8ES, not the BPR6ES the manual calls for. My 624 had a BR9ES in it. I replaced both of them with BRP6EIX11, I'll see how that goes. I wonder if that's just an availability thing? The two stores I went to said online they had the right plug, but in store they looked at me funny when I told them what I wanted. Turns out Home Depot has the BPR6ES11 in the lawnmower section. I have BR8ES and BPR9ES's laying around since I have 2 stroke gear that runs them, but thats way too large of a heat range shift for my tastes.

The blower should not move at all with the drive engaged and not running. At least it would be very, very hard to move. I leave it engaged since the manual says to not run it with it disengaged, but its probably just so people don't flip the switch with the transmission spinning. My 828 is in good condition, but still 10 years old, so it would be interesting to see how the gearbox is doing. The 624 was a $200 beater I picked up since snowpocalypse reinforced the need for a running blower.

dhazelton, I'm near EA, but we got more snow here. I'm next to the intersection that was being called the eye of the storm. Two roofs collapsed on my street, the whole deal. Most of my lawn had ~6' on it after those few days. Total snowfall exceeded 6', the lawn was just packed with stupidly dense stuff. Snowfall over the handlebars of my 828 overnight sucks, even for here. I never had to deal with that much snowfall at once before. We had that much on the ground before, but it accumulated over some time. I wasn't expecting it that bad or else I would have got up a few times that night to clean it off. I spent all day, for 2-3 days keeping the snow at bay. The blower was useless and kept clogging. Most of the time the engine was totally under snow, and the chute couldn't get rid of it. And I was in a lot better shape than most of my neighbors with little single stages. Most people didn't even bother trying to use the blower, it was faster to shovel. The side of my house where the furnace vents are ended up having a wall up to my roof. It got high enough I couldn't lift the shovel above the wall, and I'm not exactly short.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I'm assuming the plastic pilot jet is supposed to have a hole going through the bottom where the O ring is, into the larger hole through the side? I can't see any marks where a hole ever was, and it does not connect. Could be a problem there. I attempted to poke it really hard, but it really looks like a hole was never there. Any idea what size it should be drilled?


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## ZOMGVTEK

I poked it real hard with a pin and got a hole in it. Plastic bits tore out, it's clear it never had a hole. Not sure if the previous owner replaced the carb with a version that has the pilot jet blanked off or whats going on there. It's a Keihin carb and says Japan on the side, looks just like the one on my 828.

Anyways, its not surging. Appears to start easier, but I only have the one cold start on it so far. Idles perfect, although a bit rich, I can run the throttle full to idle and it gracefully slows down without popping or stalling. The pilot screw is full in and it still runs rich, but probably acceptable for its use and its a balmy 20º outside.


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## dhazelton

There's a hole in that main jet somewhere. don't recall if it's side or bottom. The holes in the pilot tube are microscopic and if just one is clogged it's problematic. Did you remove the plastic throttle stop and the plastic cap it covers to plow out that top passage?

Facebook friend lives in your area. She kept posting about how stupid neighbor across the street was because he kept going out with his blower. She said 'why doesn't he wait until it's over?' Uh, okay.


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## ZOMGVTEK

The main jet and everything else I could see was perfectly clean. Honda has a check sheet for this carb, and they clearly show air and fuel passages, there is supposed to be a hole in the bottom of the pilot jet going into an air passage. The pilot jet was 95% there, just appears like it was never drilled. There was a line in the middle of the air passage when the plastic piece was made, and it went right across where the hole was supposed to be. That would be rather unlikely its there if it was just blocked. It looks like they drill the pilot hole to size after the plastic is molded, and this one wasn't drilled. The confusing part when I was cleaning it was I couldn't see how the pilot jet was supposed to work, it didn't connect anywhere. I know this sounds unlikely, but it was fairly clearly not just blocked, but never had a hole in it where the pilot jet was supposed to be. I guess a pin is a bit on the big side, but I fired it up this morning and I spent ~5 seconds at full throttle/choke, then could slide it right down to idle, and it idled smooth. I can't do that on my 828. It starts warm at the lowest throttle, no problem.

Most everyone on my street didn't touch the driveway for 2 days until most of the snow fell. I was the only one with my driveway clear, and the roof shoveled off. 3 days in, I noticed a bunch of people shoveling roofs, which I thought was a little odd. Turns out that night two roofs collapsed and everyone started getting worried. Strange how nobody thought it could be an issue until its an issue. One of my neighbors that was especially worried now gets out a roof rake thing every time it snows. She only clears the first foot or so, not really sure why she thinks thats going to matter. Theres only a few feet on the ground anyways, its just more insulation.


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## dhazelton

There's a video that was on FB and probably on Youtube of a guy in your area with a GoPro on a drone surveying the street. If you haven't seen it look for it.

I grew up outside of Silver Creek and the Blizzard of '77 is still very memorable. The only time my father never got home from the Ford plant. He had to abandon his truck on the road - I don't even recall where he was. People don't understand - lake effect and heavy wind is a real monster.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Yeah, thats a great video. I don't have many pictures since I generally didn't take my phone, but everyone likes pictures...

This was the view out my front door. We had a dusting on the ground from the night before, and the next morning it was at my railing. It continued snowing for a while past this too.










I hear it was a mess at the end of my street. I didn't see it, but supposedly ~60 cars were stranded. This was a surprisingly common scene. Not much you can do to clear a road when you literally can't see the cars.


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## ZOMGVTEK

At some point it warmed up in the garage enough for some of the ice to melt off the 624. That's the first time I was able to get a good look at it, and as suspected all 3 shear bolts were replaced with some random junk with a surprising amount of washers. Both augers are definitely corroded onto the shaft. I pulled the assembly to try and break it loose, but its on fairly well. I didn't want to put too much heat on it to avoid melting seals. I lubricated things up, put it back in, and left the auger shear bolts out in the hopes they break free from use. If not, I'll have to tear it down and hammer on it when the weather improves. At least the impeller now has a shear bolt in it, and spins free. Is the assembly supposed to spin by hand really easily, or should it drag on the belt a bit?


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## dhazelton

The impeller spins pretty easily. Without any tension on the belt it will. I have one augur that's seized and I'm going to just start hitting the end of the shaft with PB Blaster and seeing if I can work it free with the shear bolt out.


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## Kiss4aFrog

The PB Blaster is good stuff for that but you might also want to try heating the shaft up some with just a propane torch. The heat will do two things. It helps the penetrating fluid flow as it thins it from the heat but it also helps to suck it in as it's cooling. You work the shaft with the flame to get it good and warn without burning off the paint and give it a 10-20 seconds to start to cool before you start drowning it in Blaster.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Yesterday I heated the shaft with a mapp gas torch, sprayed it with some penetrating oil, hammered it, and heated again. Not one hint of movement. I can heat and hammer it a whole lot more, but I should probably get new seals before I do that.


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## dhazelton

My wheeled HS628 had the original Ohatsu's that stopped hlding air. I put Slime in them and when I aired them up the Slime oozed through the side! I get Carlisles and one wheel comes right off. The other is stuck. I heat it. I spray it. I use a puller on it (after I spooned the tire off) and started to bend the square plate. I heat it again. I spray it again. I tried for a couple of days and finally took a sawzall with a metal blade to the hub (the split rim type with that plate welded to the hub). I cut through one side and it still wouldn't come off. Cut the other side and off it came and I could see no reason for it to be stuck. The metal looked clean. The rim actually holds the two halves of the hub together so it didn't matter. Just dumb and frustrating.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Apparently the repair failed. I'll have to tear it down some time and check it out.

The season should be winding down, so no biggie. I uploaded a video of the 828 from a bit ago. This was the second time I used it, so the controls were a bit new to me.


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## Apple Guy

A new shaft and a new gear is in your future.


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## dhazelton

That video is like looking at the rings of a tree - can see how that snow came in dry and fluffy then got wetter and came in waves.

Sorry about the fail - do you think your pin just broke? is there a harder material you can drive in?


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## ZOMGVTEK

I'm guessing it broke, but its possible it slid out or something silly. I didn't use a thread locker or anything of the sort, although it was a rather snug fit. I was using it a little hard, but no harder than I did before, and it failed on a light pass. It was moving forwards and then just stopped. On the way back to the garage, it hit a few points where it was binding. It could be the little bit that was left in the gear got pushed out, fell out, or the whole thing just slid out. As it sits now, it spins freely, and intermittently binds. Move it the opposite direction and it frees up for a while.

I'll have to determine why it failed. If it just sheared, I will probably hammer in a solid pin and put some thread locker on it.


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## ZOMGVTEK

It appears to be a double shear. One large piece was sitting in the gear, and another large piece in the shaft. A piece is missing in the goop somewhere from the other side of the gear. The fractures were not clean, and the pieces left fit rather loosely, but I don't suspect it moved. I'll wade through the grease with a magnet before reassembly. 

I timed it, from it sitting on the ground to tipped up and cover off, it was a bit under 8 minutes without rushing. It could be done in ~2 with air tools sitting in front of you and a low enough fuel tank so you don't need to drain it.

I'll snag some 1/4" 5/8" long hardened steel pins and smash one in. They're rated 10,000lb double shear, thats over 4x the rating of what I had in there. I'll see how that goes.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Finally welded up the gear. It went better than I expected, given the condition and my near zero experience. Looks like it might even work.














































It went back together fairly well, given that it was tipped up in pieces in my garage for 9 months. HST fluid didn't appear to leak, the cylinder wasn't filled with oil, started first pull no problem. Although it did smoke quite a bit. I dropped some slag on the support thing connecting the impeller housing to the rest of the bucket, and it did a surprising amount to stiffen things up. It was all rusted over there anyways, and flat black was at hand.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I had the bucket off my 828 for some inspection and lubrication. I opened up the right gearbox while I was at it, and the thing was mint. Kinda odd, since my 624 was first sold in 99, and my 828 was sold 94. Everything looked good in there, the left side axle bearing was shot, but the one inside the gearbox was nice. I just popped a tub of M1 grease in there and sealed it back up.


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## ZOMGVTEK

My brother picked up a banged up 624 that wouldn't move, figured I might as well toss some pics up.
































































The old hole for the gear got quite screwed up, and the shaft appears to be symmetrical aside from the pin, so I'm thinking to drill a hole on the other end and press a pin in there.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I cut the shank off the drill used and lumped up the center a bit so its a press fit. No noticeable play on the gear, although it probably isn't a big deal even if there is. It's a 9/32" cheapie HSS jobber. Should do the business.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I got a single stage paddle and will do the impeller mod to the 624 and see how that goes. I'll likely end up doing it on the 828 as well. Here are some initial pics of my rusted 624.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Here is the paddle, it's for a Toro S200, S620, 620 #23-3730. I sliced it about 50mm x 85mm and will sand it to final dimensions. I got 5 pieces out of the paddle, which means I'd need another one to do two blowers. You could get 6 pieces out of it if you cut it a little small. The paddle was $5 to my door from Amazon, so no big deal.


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## JnC

The gap between the impeller and the impeller housing in Honda SBs isnt that huge, especially compared to some of the other machines available. Most snowblowers have the gap from 1/2"~1" which is the reason for slush clogs. Hondas have 1/8"~1/4" gap which pretty much negates the idea of doing this mod. 

I had the impeller mod in my blower last year and took it off this year as I didnt really notice any difference in performance. My 2 cents would be to just skip it.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Worst case is I have two holes in my impeller fins that I can always just weld over. No big deal. My 624 is a bit banged up anyways, so whatever.

I never have clogs with my Hondas, whereas the previous two Ariens and a Toro clogged ALL day in wet snow. So, I'm not expecting much, but still want to see it first hand. My 828 throws flakes a lot farther than the 624, but I didn't check the impeller gap on either.

Now, one problem I do have with my 624 that appears to be fine on the 828 is snow packing in front of the auger and getting pushed around. I'm not sure if this is poor scraper bar adjustment, worn augers that are short, or what the deal is. But I never ran into it on my 828, and the last snowfall I resorted to shoveling when the 624 was mostly pushing the 1-2" of snow around. My driveway is a few year old concrete with no cracks, so i'm running the scraper almost dragging, and the rear skids are just high enough so it generally won't bang around. The cleaning is almost perfect, but it likes to bunch up snow in front of the thing. I've never adjusted shoes or scrapers on previous machines, they all were new and failed in one way before that was an issue. So I don't have any experience with it. It's on my to do list to look into it.


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## ZOMGVTEK

It's definitely louder, at least for now. It sure keeps the impeller housing clean.
































































Supposedly theres going to be some snowfall next week.


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## Apple Guy

I TIG welded some more paddles length running beads into my 2011 928 and had the impeller balanced. I have a 1/8th inch gap and gained a bit more decibels of the classic Honda 2-stage impeller "Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" sound.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I was considering adding material to the edge, but I figured I would give this a shot first. And technically this is going to be closer than you could do with welding, since it needs to fit in through that lip in the front of the housing. But it might screw other things up too.

I should note, I had the paddles a bit farther out than I intended to, so there was considerable wear and the thing barely turned initially. So the gap is a bit less than it appears from that overhang photo. But it sure is close now.


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## db9938

If you have not, then I would suggest using some anti seize on each of those anchor screws.


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## ZOMGVTEK

They're stainless and covered in anti seize. You can see my grimey fingerprints all over the paddles once they're on. Theres a layer of it under the paddles, filling the holes, under the head of the screws, and on the threads. I put that stuff on everything.


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## Apple Guy

If not for the anti-corrosion factor for the underlining steel impeller, but for the galling of the stainless steel bolt and nut "like" metals for disassembly later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I suppose thats worth mentioning for the home gamers. I somewhat intentionally picked 316 T Nuts and 18-8 screws with this vaguely in mind. That plus a considerable coating of ASL never failed me before. Still, nothing a grinder and hammer can't fix in this application. You can't tell, but theres a lot of ASL under those paddles to minimize trapped water related corrosion. Although I don't think it really matters that much for this application. I probably used Loctite 77164 ASL since theres a tub laying somewhere by the blower in my garage. But removal is looking unlikely anyways. I've been eying a new blower, and having 3 would make me crazy, so this one might go vaguely soon.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Decided to make some drift cutters. So far I don't like them, they get in the way a lot. It could just be they're way too long, I just used some scrap pieces and didn't bother cutting them down. I might hack them shorter, and run a bar across to mount lights.

I also attempted to form some TIVAR to line the chute, but its going to need signifiant heat to get that thickness in there. I'll try and dig up some thinner stuff.

Got a few inches of snowfall, the impeller mod does appear to help, but its hard to be sure. It was throwing quite well, but it was also light stuff.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Heres a not terribly good video of the 624.


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## JnC

You really need to fabricate something to relocate that chute crank, especially knowing that you have access to a machine shop/tools that should have been the first mod. 

Heck knowing you I know it'd be something thorough and proper so get cranking (pun intended) on that mod .


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## ZOMGVTEK

The 624 is kinda little, so I need to hunch over to reach the handlebars as is. The chute crank is a bit out of the way, but I don't think its all that big of a deal.

I might raise it up though, since it does look like a 20 minute mod and I should have what I need laying around.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Not a great photo, but I did a little preliminary chute liner. I'm thinking of making a few revisions and getting the fit dialed in. Right now its hand cut, I'll scan it and laser cut it so its symmetrical and has smooth edges that are less prone to fracturing. This is 0.031" black Acetal. I'm thinking PTFE is likely a safer bet, but I'm not sure how well it would handle long term abrasion from sharp ice and whatnot, and it costs quite a bit.

I'll have to see how this performs next time it snows. The acetal wasn't happy about the complex curves, so theres a big airspace behind it in the middle area of the chute, its more of a straight line. Probably better for absolute throwing distance. The way its laid in there it has no sharp edges, and smoothly transitions from the round to flat. It should do something. It could almost be secured with just the two existing holes in the top, but the Acetal was reluctant to hold its shape in the bottom. It might be doable with PTFE or something less rigid.


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## ZOMGVTEK

It's hard to say exactly what the chute liner did, but it definitely didn't hurt. I can throw snow on my neighbors roof.


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## chaulky45

*liner*



ZOMGVTEK said:


> It's hard to say exactly what the chute liner did, but it definitely didn't hurt. I can throw snow on my neighbors roof.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzZuWUZbSrQ


What did you use to make the chute liner and how did you put it in place, did you glue it with a hot glue gun maybe


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## ZOMGVTEK

Post #82 has the details. It's .031" Acetal, and held in place with the existing two bolts that hold the tilting bit on the top of the chute. It's basically just jammed in there and pinned with the bolts. It has tabs that extend past the bottom and kinda lock into the gap between the bottom of the chute exterior and round inlet. I drilled holes for two more bolts on the bottom to help it stay in place, but I don't know if they're required. They're visible in the picture.

If the top bolts are taken out, the material springs back to flat. I really, really doubt hot glue would hold this in place for anything more than a few uses. I don't see the need to hold it in place with an adhesive, which would also tend to mean places where water can sit behind the liner and chute. I only have two uses on it, but it appears to stay just fine. I'll get a picture of the liner by itself next time its off.


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## chaulky45

*ok thanks*



ZOMGVTEK said:


> Post #82 has the details. It's .031" Acetal, and held in place with the existing two bolts that hold the tilting bit on the top of the chute. It's basically just jammed in there and pinned with the bolts. It has tabs that extend past the bottom and kinda lock into the gap between the bottom of the chute exterior and round inlet. I drilled holes for two more bolts on the bottom to help it stay in place, but I don't know if they're required. They're visible in the picture.
> 
> If the top bolts are taken out, the material springs back to flat. I really, really doubt hot glue would hold this in place for anything more than a few uses. I don't see the need to hold it in place with an adhesive, which would also tend to mean places where water can sit behind the liner and chute. I only have two uses on it, but it appears to stay just fine. I'll get a picture of the liner by itself next time its off.


Thanks for the info


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## ZOMGVTEK

This is what the 624 does when the conditions are right. It's a little odd, since it was fine for the first few passes. Once it started doing this, it wouldn't stop.

Could it be the worn auger? Did old machines with smooth augers do this?






I broke out the 828, and it surprised me how poorly it threw snow when it wasn't well loaded. If theres just a little snow, it barely throws it across the driveway. Give it enough, and its fine, looks like it could use the impeller mod.


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## JnC

Seems like the snow is mushy/wet and I also see ice build up on the augers. Not sure whats going on as it seems like the augers are just not biting into the snow.


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## db9938

shear bolts?


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## ZOMGVTEK

Both augers are spinning. I can see the bolts on the ends of the auger spinning, and if i run around front quick enough the augers are still spinning.

When I backed out, the snow was hard packed and polished smooth.

For some reason, the teeth on the one side of the auger are bent over. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.


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## ZOMGVTEK

A bit better detail on the chute liner. It's got a few uses and no signs of issues.





































Theres some snow left in the lower edges of the angled flap that appears to give you an idea of how the snow comes out of the chute. It looks to have a much smoother transition than the stock chute design. The liner had a bit of water behind it as expected. On the final instal I will likely slather grease on the metal behind it. That's probably enough.

The gold lines in the last picture are to help stitch it back together after scanning, since its too big to fit in one scan. I'll use the scan as a guide to make a perfectly symmetrical one that can be easily laser cut out of most anything quickly. I can move the hole location in or out to adjust 'tension' in the chute too.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I used the blower a few times since retrofitting the powered chute from this thread... http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/920777-post75.html 

So far it's been working quite well, it's a fairly significant improvement to the usability. The height of the chute adjustment was never that big of a concern to me, but I wasn't happy with how granular the chute adjustment was. Due to its design, the handle always wanted to rest down, so I couldn't get all that precise chute adjustment. And this tended to mean the handle always spun back so it would fall down at the ends of travel, so the chute rotation was limited even more. Of course the motor will hold any position it's left in, and cutting two more teeth into the chute really helps to get the chute aimed back so the EOD makes it back onto the lawn and not making a mess in the street.

I didn't finalize the setup yet, and I would like it to turn a touch faster than it does now. However, the current regulator isn't well suited for maximizing the output of the stator, and theres not enough power available to make it work well if its turned up any more. I'll get around it eventually, and put the current limited regulator in I intended from the start. It probably would work fine powered right off the rectified stator output, but the speed would change with engine speed and load.

For now, my 624 is doing a very good job. I replaced the rear skids with commercial skids, and I definitely prefer them. I like how they allow for an easy way to drag the bucket down the curb to clear the approach and mailbox area, and they appear to hold the bucket at a more constant height, minimizing the times the scraper bangs into stuff.


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## ZOMGVTEK

This is a poor picture that does a reasonable job showing where the impeller kit and chute liner excel. This is a thin layer of icy slush, and my scraper is kinda high so I can run full speed without banging into stuff. The 624 will throw this stuff clear across the driveway no problem at idle, or to my neighbors roof at full speed. I suppose this isnt super important to most folks, but its kinda nice how thin the stream of flakes out the chute is.


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## jrom

Good to hear from you. Thanks for the update. Very cool.


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## vmax29

I have a small Miller 110 welder and if you use enough argon gas with it you can get a nice clean weld on a part like that. Use a low feed setting on the wire, medium heat and it will lay in nice. I would think a larger welder would burn right through that and probably compromise the seal. 
Not a professional welder by a long shot but I did weld up a gear like that and it came out nice.


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## vmax29

Sorry, started reading beginning and missed the 2015 date. Enough eggnog for me.


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## orangputeh

ZOMGVTEK said:


> I cut the shank off the drill used and lumped up the center a bit so its a press fit. No noticeable play on the gear, although it probably isn't a big deal even if there is. It's a 9/32" cheapie HSS jobber. Should do the business.


i am reading this whole thread. how did you cut that drill shank?


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## ZOMGVTEK

Probably a bench grinder. You can cut through most anything with a grinder.


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## orangputeh

ZOMGVTEK said:


> Probably a bench grinder. You can cut through most anything with a grinder.


did it work fine after you did this?


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## ZOMGVTEK

Yeah, its still working. Didn't open it since those photos were taken.


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## 2KXJ

How has that welded shaft held up so far? I have an HS928 here with the exact same problem, and dont really want to tear the transmission apart. 

but I do have a welder....


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## orangputeh

This thread is almost 7 years old
Are your splines stripped or the gear?
Do you inspect the gearbox and pin on axle?


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## 2KXJ

Yes I saw the dates but this is the only thread in existance on the internet that I have found that someone has the same problem as me. I was hoping it was the pin when I took it apart but nothing was broken, except the little gear spun freely on the shaft


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## orangputeh

2KXJ said:


> Yes I saw the dates but this is the only thread in existance on the internet that I have found that someone has the same problem as me. I was hoping it was the pin when I took it apart but nothing was broken, except the little gear spun freely on the shaft


A buddy of mine welded up splines and cut new splines. I have never tried that. Must be very precise. If I did not care too much about machine I would just weld gear onto shaft. 
Taking apart that hydro unit is asking for trouble. Even our local shops won't do it. One dealer suggested I send it to Tennessee to their facility to replace seals in one of mine. I declined and fortunately had an extra good unit to replace.

You could search for a good used unit. BTW the 624-724-828-928-1132 hydros all have the same part number which I recently was surprised to learn.


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## JnC

Part #5 can be replaced without too much trouble, you'd just have to refill, bleed the transmission once done. 

The left side bolted in seal can be undone and the driveshaft can be pushed/hammered out. Just make sure to put everything back in the same way especially part number 11, the main gear transferring power from the hydropump to the driveshaft.


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## orangputeh

wow. a $100 for that shaft.......unless you can find a bad unit for parts.


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## ZOMGVTEK

2KXJ said:


> How has that welded shaft held up so far? I have an HS928 here with the exact same problem, and dont really want to tear the transmission apart.
> 
> but I do have a welder....


Something let loose inside it last year. I’ll get it torn apart and see what’s going on soon. The gear does appear to be still there, since the wheels sometimes lock. It feels like something came off and is intermittently jamming the gears. Presumably that does mean the weld held…


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## ZOMGVTEK

A bit of an update for those following along…

My 624 broke last winter and got tossed in the shed. Something is intermittently binding inside the gearbox, the wheels lock.

My 828 broke its streak and had a string of failures, so I robbed parts of the 624 to fix it. Broke the auger gearbox main gear, then the impeller pulley fatigued and cracked, then the impeller drive belt shredded. Of course, this all happened in the middle of the 22’ blizzard, over a single day. Somehow the belt for the 624 impeller is ~1.5” shorter than the one on the 828, so it didn’t work and I didn’t have a spare. Finally got new belts in today, and it’s up and running again. The impeller kit is working great, still looks good and throws the flakes on my neighbors roof. This machine has taken a huge amount of abuse over the years I’ve had it, and it’s starting to get banged up. The bucket housing nuts are getting all stripped out from how many times the bucket came off.

My brothers track drive 828 is still running with the drill shank in the shaft, no failures. I’m told it thrives on abuse and neglect.


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## 2KXJ

ZOMGVTEK said:


> Something let loose inside it last year. I’ll get it torn apart and see what’s going on soon. The gear does appear to be still there, since the wheels sometimes lock. It feels like something came off and is intermittently jamming the gears. Presumably that does mean the weld held…


I welded my gear to the shaft and sold the machine for $950 lol


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## orangputeh

ZOMGVTEK said:


> A bit of an update for those following along…
> 
> My 624 broke last winter and got tossed in the shed. Something is intermittently binding inside the gearbox, the wheels lock.
> 
> My 828 broke its streak and had a string of failures, so I robbed parts of the 624 to fix it. Broke the auger gearbox main gear, then the impeller pulley fatigued and cracked, then the impeller drive belt shredded. Of course, this all happened in the middle of the 22’ blizzard, over a single day. Somehow the belt for the 624 impeller is ~1.5” shorter than the one on the 828, so it didn’t work and I didn’t have a spare. Finally got new belts in today, and it’s up and running again. The impeller kit is working great, still looks good and throws the flakes on my neighbors roof. This machine has taken a huge amount of abuse over the years I’ve had it, and it’s starting to get banged up. The bucket housing nuts are getting all stripped out from how many times the bucket came off.
> 
> My brothers track drive 828 is still running with the drill shank in the shaft, no failures. I’m told it thrives on abuse and neglect.


Hate to tell you this but after having worked on hundreds and hundreds of Honda's these generally don't break if properly maintained.

Yes , an engine can go but it's almost as rare as BIGFOOT. I have only seen 4 blown Honda engines in the last 500 or so and each one blew because of lack of oil in 3 cases and one case it had gasoline in crankcase.

The final drive gearbox or right side tranny can fail from just general wear and tear. Most times it is from abuse.People slam them at full speed forward and reverse into hard berms and then wonder why it broke. Would you do this to your car??? The bushings are plastic and can wear out and fail over time. That is why I install grease zerks in them and pump in new grease every fall. 

The auger gearbox rarely fails unless the oil leaks out due to a dry or cracked seal.

Of course a machine that is 20-30-40 years needs more proactive maintenance to stay in tip top shape but all machines need preventive maintenance.

Honda snowblowers are not bulletproof as some people say. They are gonna break if abused. It may take awhile but they will break eventually. 

I have seen literally hundreds of Honda's that are 25-40 years old that have NEVER broke ( other than shear pins ) because their owners have taken care of them


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## ZOMGVTEK

To be clear, I will readily admit I use the snowblower as a tool to remove snow as quickly as possible. I don't claim this is some sort of badge of honor, but rather a conscious decision. By most peoples standards on here, I heavily abuse the machine. I've frequently come into situations where it will not push forward, and the snow must be removed, so I will slam the machine back and forth to get it done. The alternative option is spending a day or two shoveling. I always push the machine full speed into the ice at the street and EOD. I maintain it reasonably well, but it is treated as a tool that was purchased to make my life easier. Sometimes conditions arise that make it very difficult to do anything other than abuse the machine, and I accept this.

I changed the oil on the auger gearbox a few years back, and it looked good then. I inspected the oil level last year, no issues with lubrication. The auger shear pins are correct, and the shafts are well lubricated and spin free. Impeller shear pin is correct as well, and those surfaces are also well lubricated. I've broken many auger and impeller shear pins, usually due to hidden large ice chunks pushed into the driveway from the plow.










This is a bit unexpected, but there's clear signs of fatigue, so it didn't happen overnight. They appear to have redesigned this pulley since this model, the one off my newer 624 looks quite a bit different. Interestingly, the machine managed to suck up a large screwdriver a little bit before this happened casually going through shallow snow. Apparently a plow got stuck in front of my house a bit earlier, presumably the screwdriver fell out of his truck since it surely wasn't mine.










I don't have a great picture at my house, but this is at a rental property with a single stage to give you an idea of the snowfall. It's somewhat misleading, as the base ~1' or so is extremely dense due to the temp being fairly high at that time. This stuff was absolutely brutal to move, no consumer snowblower could reasonably handle it due to how heavily the base was compacted.


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## orangputeh

geeesus criminy


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