# EFI what’s the consensus? Part deux



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

About a year ago I posted similar as it had been a few years since the arrival of EFI machines. Wasn’t sure if should bump the old thread or start new.

would it be prudent to start an EFI specific thread?

anyhow now we know more about EFI, even more people have machines with them. Last year it was overwhelming in favor of non EFI.

I’ll start with the disclaimer that I’m not an expert, and everything is my opinion only and based on discussions here and with my dealer, and elsewhere on the web. I will be purchasing an Ariens platinum 24”. So I have an interest in EFI or no EFI.

first off I think the Ariens EFI system is not complicated. A few basic components. No expensive equipment is needed to troubleshoot. Personally I’m confident I could get “back up and running” if needed.

to date, the failures have been 1 ecu module, 1 ecu “wonky” module that turned out to be a low battery, 1 faulty battery, an instance or 2 of dead or defective battery (some cases the customer wasn’t educated about the battery), one throttle body failure, and a few fuel pump failures (one “failure” was a stuck pump that was resolved).

my local dealer doesn’t sell lot of EFI simply because people don’t,want to spend the extra money. His best sellers are the deluxe series for home, and the pro 28 for the contractors. (Non EFI). His opinion is that carbs have done the job for decades and that the benefits of EFI are not worth the expense at this time. Most of his “won’t start” customers are bad fuel. He doesn’t clean customer carbs. He does an oem swap to get you up and running, and keeps your carb, “has the kid clean it”, and put a new carb kit on it. Ready to go for the next non start customer. .

My personal opinion at this time is to stick with a carb. Tried and true. Easy to swap out, or clean. If needed, a crab kit is 13 bucks, and a new oem carb about 50 to swap on the spot. If proper fuel practices are adhered to you will likely not have an issue. 

I am a tech guy, and I like new things but the EFI claims are “easier starting, less maintenance, better for higher altitudes, more reliable (lol), and a better power curve thingie. 

And while I’m confident I can fix EFI I don’t think it’s worth the 800 premium (Canadian) to purchase, and the fact I’d have to have 300 (Canadian) in spare EFI parts to swap out, as you don’t clean or fix EFI, you replace. 

For the 1100 price difference I can buy ALOT of true fuel, and/or drain the carb/tank at the end of the year and I can almost garantee I will never have an issue. 

There’s no ecu to fail. No throttle to fail. There’s no fuel pump to fail, and as FAS as I know no one ever has had a gravity failure for,a traditional fuel delivery system. 

Also swinging my in favor of the good old carb is the fact that the,EFI platinum 24 comes with an electric chute. I trust Ariens, but I’m 100% confident the tried and true mechanical chute controls will still work 30 years from now. I don’t have the same confidence in the electronic stuff. 

So my vote is keep it old school. Carb’d engine, manual chute control, disk drive. A time tested design that’s been around and served me well since 1981. 

What say you?


----------



## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Shovel or move forward with SOME new tech? Analogous to Horse and Buggy or Horseless Carriage.........I feel EFI, lectic chutes, heated grips, CDI ignitions coils(yes currently present on your old carb'd units, unless you're running points) and head lights on our newer blowers is just a evolution from one place to another very much like most everything that has advanced in our life times(medicines, telephones, the computers we're currently both typing on, etc, etc) and will continue to evolve long after we're all gone in this place we call the Twilight Zone!


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Nan_wpg said:


> What so you?


Add a simple, binary Yes/No poll to your thread.

Click the 3 vertical dots to the right above the first thread post and choose *Create poll*. The rest is easy!


----------



## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

I feel EFI on these machines an attempt, albeit a bad one so far, at meeting emissions requirements as well as perhaps trying to get rid of problems with carbs and ethanol. People leaving machines ignored for long periods has always been an issue with a carb and I do believe ethanol makes it worse.

I don't believe it's design or it's governor would produce any meaningful improvement over a carb and centrifugal governor. The claims of it reacting faster, I feel, are moot as centrifugal governors are good enough for generators, they're more than good enough for a snowblower.


For me..........if I was spending 3-4 large I'd rather spend it on a overly build beefy machine that's basic and reliable than a blinged out one.


----------



## kozal01 (10 mo ago)

I wanted EFI and I bought one with EFI. It does hold the RPM in the power way better than a carbed engine with a mechanical governor, no doubt about it. I see a lot of people on this site have opinions of EFI that have never even used or owned one. Is it more complex than a carb? Yup! Is it the direction everything will go sooner than later? Also yes! While it still has some kinks to work out, EFI is far from a new technology and our EFI snowblowers are about as simple of an EFI system as you can get short of a mechanical injection system so its not rocket science or scary. If carbs were so great all of our cars and trucks would still run them, my Ford trucks have all had EFI since the mid 80's and Ive never once had a single EFI related failure in the many vehicles Ive owned over the years. EFI is here to stay folks, like it or not.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Sam Am I said:


> Shovel or move forward with SOME new tech? Analogous to Horse and Buggy or Horseless Carriage.........I feel EFI, lectic chutes, heated grips, CDI ignitions coils(yes currently present on your old carb'd units, unless you're running points) and head lights on our newer blowers is just a evolution from one place to another very much like most everything that has advanced in our life times(medicines, telephones, the computers we're currently both typing on, etc, etc) and will continue to evolve long after we're all gone in this place we call the Twilight Zone!


I’d say a carb’d unit is a,step up from shoveling. EFI and doo dads would be the next evaluation. 

Would a 1981 blower have cdi, or [oints?


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

tabora said:


> Add a simple, binary Yes/No poll to your thread.
> 
> Click the 3 vertical dots to the right above the first thread post and choose *Create poll*. The rest is easy!


Done! Pretty cool. I feel smart right now.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> I feel EFI on these machines an attempt, albeit a bad one so far, at meeting emissions requirements as well as perhaps trying to get rid of problems with carbs and ethanol. People leaving machines ignored for long periods has always been an issue with a carb and I do believe ethanol makes it worse.
> 
> I don't believe it's design or it's governor would produce any meaningful improvement over a carb and centrifugal governor. The claims of it reacting faster, I feel, are moot as centrifugal governors are good enough for generators, they're more than good enough for a snowblower.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. If I had the room in my garage I’d buy an Ariens pro 28 with the big engine. Disk drive, manual chute. It’s what the pros in my city mostly use.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

kozal01 said:


> I wanted EFI and I bought one with EFI. It does hold the RPM in the power way better than a carbed engine with a mechanical governor, no doubt about it. I see a lot of people on this site have opinions of EFI that have never even used or owned one. Is it more complex than a carb? Yup! Is it the direction everything will go sooner than later? Also yes! While it still has some kinks to work out, EFI is far from a new technology and our EFI snowblowers are about as simple of an EFI system as you can get short of a mechanical injection system so its not rocket science or scary. If carbs were so great all of our cars and trucks would still run them, my Ford trucks have all had EFI since the mid 80's and Ive never once had a single EFI related failure in the many vehicles Ive owned over the years. EFI is here to stay folks, like it or not.


I’m not too worried about the failures. I think they are low. For me it’s the initial cost, and the cost of having back up parts (much like a carb kit, and back up carb) simply do not give me any benefits over a carb’d unit. 

Many on these forums have been running for years without issues. (Carb).


----------



## GKK (Apr 29, 2021)

My gut instinct is that EFI machines (as well as all new gas machines) will be disappearing sooner than later. Battery machines (as much as I don't like them right now) will be the future. Well see some serious heavy duty electric machines in the near future, not these current plastic fantastic ones we currently have. I'm guessing that EFI may have gotten on the band wagon a little too late. That R&D money is or will be redirected just like the automobile industry is doing. I'll stick with carbs for as long as I can. I'm a strong supporter of the "kept it simple (stupid)" philosophy.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

GKK said:


> My gut instinct is that EFI machines (as well as all new gas machines) will be disappearing sooner than later. Battery machines (as much as I don't like them right now) will be the future. Well see some serious heavy duty electric machines in the near future, not these current plastic fantastic ones we currently have. I'm guessing that EFI may have gotten on the band wagon a little too late. That R&D money is or will be redirected just like the automobile industry is doing. I'll stick with carbs for as long as I can. I'm a strong supporter of the "kept it simple (stupid)" philosophy.


I hope you’re wrong, or I hope there is a HUGE advance in batteries. We’re not there yet for cars and not there for blowers. Weed trimmers yes. Mowers….. maybe. Not for thick grass.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Nan_wpg said:


> We’re not there yet for cars


Yeah, we are...


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Due to owning Ariens 32", 420cc, Pro machines that are carbed and with EFI, I have the unique ability to run machines at the same time in the same exact snow conditions. The EFI setup is superior. It's not world beating compared to a carburetor but there is a difference. Better throttle response, quicker governor adjustments, and maintains higher engine RPMs. The higher RPMs translates into higher impeller tip speed which IMHO is the single most important factor in snowblower performance. 

With recent discussions of troubleshooting and repairing EFI in this forum I'm glad to own one. Never stop learning.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

tabora said:


> Yeah, we are...





tabora said:


> Yeah, we are...


Nope. Too expensive. Not enough range and certainly not carbon friendly. Coal fired electric car. Lol. 

Maybe in California (we’ll not really) but certainly not in Canada. Ask me how I know? I know a few who tried. And failed


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

JJG723 said:


> Due to owning Ariens 32", 420cc, Pro machines that are carbed and with EFI, I have the unique ability to run machines at the same time in the same exact snow conditions. The EFI setup is superior. It's not world beating compared to a carburetor but there is a difference. Better throttle response, quicker governor adjustments, and maintains higher engine RPMs. The higher RPMs translates into higher impeller tip speed which IMHO is the single most important factor in snowblower performance.
> 
> With recent discussions of troubleshooting and repairing EFI in this forum I'm glad to own one. Never stop learning.


Are you speaking as a pro, or a residential owner? I have no doubt the EFI is “better” in this regard, I just don’t know if I can justify 1100 dollars for the extra performance that I’ve never needed. 

You have a rather unique perspective to compare side by side.


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Nan_wpg said:


> Nope. Too expensive. Not enough range and certainly not carbon friendly. Coal fired electric car. Lol.
> Maybe in California (we’ll not really) but certainly not in Canada. Ask me how I know? I know a few who tried. And failed


“The facts, Sir. Just the facts.” You need to chat with @Coby7...








And seriously, did you ACTUALLY watch that video? Your response seems kind of knee-jerk.


----------



## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Diesel... 😁

As far as EFI... I dunno, I'm still hearing about the same amount of problems for one reason or another. I'm a simple guy... rather deal with the devil I know than one fresh outta the box.

At least for now... we shall see.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

tabora said:


> “The facts, Sir. Just the facts.” You need to chat with @Coby7...


Nope


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Nan_wpg said:


> Nope


That response earns you a perpetual ignore...


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> Are you speaking as a pro, or a residential owner? I have no doubt the EFI is “better” in this regard, I just don’t know if I can justify 1100 dollars for the extra performance that I’ve never needed.
> 
> You have a rather unique perspective to compare side by side.


Each storm I do snow removal for several residential houses along with a church and a school property. I'm paid for providing the service so even though it's just a side hustle technically I'm a professional. I've been running snowblowers since I was 11 years old. This season will be my 30th year snowblowing.


----------



## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

*"No hits below the belt".*

-- The Referee


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

tabora said:


> That response earns you a perpetual ignore...


Ask me if I care?


----------



## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> Ask me if I care?


Take it easy and see my above post. I _will_ stop the car... I'd rather not.


----------



## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Diesel... 😁
> 
> As far as EFI... I dunno, I'm still hearing about the same amount of problems for one reason or another. I'm a simple guy... rather deal with the devil I know than one fresh outta the box.
> 
> At least for now... we shall see.


Them's dern diesels is too buggy for this old timer said the guy throwing a heap of coal in that thar boiler of his steam powered shovel...This too shall pass 

Think if we had started with better pumps on these critters from the get go, we'd all be feeling a lot better, agreed though, not the best way to start........But in all honesty, the pump is really the only thing standing out so far with this young design......They really do run like a top.


----------



## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Sam Am I said:


> Them's dern diesels is too buggy for this old timer said the guy throwing a heap of coal in that thar boiler of his steam powered shovel...This too shall pass


Well I ain't quite ready to ride on that Space-X gadget yet neither... 😋

All things in good time. 🍻


----------



## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Well I ain't quite ready to ride on that Space-X gadget yet neither... 😋


Now that's a giant leap, me either......🚀


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Sam Am I said:


> Think if we had started with better pumps


Well, all our ICE are just air pumps anyway; just need good fuel pumps to go along with them!
"_An engine is nothing but an air pump..._The more air an engine can process, the more power it can make."​








This One Idea Is the Key to Understanding How Internal Combustion Engines Work


It's all about the airflow.




www.roadandtrack.com


----------



## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

tabora said:


> Well, all our ICE are just air pumps anyway; just need good fuel pumps to go along with them!
> "_An engine is nothing but an air pump..._The more air an engine can process, the more power it can make."​
> 
> 
> ...


Landing in Portland 4'ish pm your time tomorrow.........So love flying in Hurricanes! Now that's a air pump!!


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

tabora said:


> Yeah, we are...


800+ miles without a charge? No? Then clearly not there!


----------



## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*As long as I never have to use these things again!! In this god forsaken outhouse of a so called state. These will be the last ones I will ever have. Then they can pry them from my cold Dead Hands. And if I should relocate to warmer lands. They are coming with me. Just because they can.*


----------



## BullFrog (Oct 14, 2015)

I voted no. On small engines carbs have worked perfectly well for me.


----------



## Smokie1 (Sep 17, 2019)

JJG723 said:


> Each storm I do snow removal for several residential houses along with a church and a school property. I'm paid for providing the service so even though it's just a side hustle technically I'm a professional. I've been running snowblowers since I was 11 years old. This season will be my 30th year snowblowing.


EFI has been on option on Ariens machines for 4-5 years now I believe. I’m guessing 60% of the failures I’ve read about are pump/fuel pressure related, 30% battery /charging related failures, and 10% owner failure to read the owners manual and realize they need to occasionally plug it in LOL. If it is the wave of the future for snowblowers, and there are problematic parts (fuel pumps), and you wanted to move your customer base towards purchasing this new tech, wouldn’t you upgrade/improve this part? Last year when the supply chain thing hit, guys had new machines failing, and they were waiting months for parts for EFI machines. When I have had a carb related issue with one of my older machines, they start running rough, starting poorly, or requiring the choke to be left open a notch. This gives me a chance to address the problem before I can’t use the machine. From all the reports on this forum I’ve read, this is not so with EFI. It’s running fine when you put it away, and then it won’t start when you try to use it next. I have had a chance to use a EFI machine at my dealer. I liked the way it started and ran, but I stand close to my machine when operating, and my dang jacket hits that knob and changes the engine speed. I’ve read people complaining about there not being enough tension on that knob for years, and as of last year, the knob is in the same place, and it’s just as easy to turn. As far as you haven’t owned an EFI machine, so you don’t know how great they are…. maybe, but I love my 24” Platinum SHO with a carb, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything!


----------



## vmax29 (Oct 19, 2017)

I remember riding up to Americade in Lake George NY years ago on my Yamaha Vmax, That V4 engine used 4 carbs all in tune. The bike was super reliable and would start every time without fail. So we are hanging out one night and everyone is gathered around this Harley. I didn’t understand what all the buzz was about with people pointing at the air cleaner lid. It was one of the first of the efi line.

Many years later I sold the vmax and a couple years ago I bought a Road King with efi. Startup is instant and smooth. I’m sure the Airens efi is going to catch on throughout the industry eventually once all the parts issues (fuel pumps) are behind them. It is interesting to watch a convergence of technology happening. Larger OPE engines getting more efficient with efi and smaller ope like trimmers and blowers falling to the battery power market. Just my thoughts.


----------



## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

vmax29 said:


> I remember riding up to Americade in Lake George NY years ago on my Yamaha Vmax, That V4 engine used 4 carbs all in tune. The bike was super reliable and would start every time without fail. So we are hanging out one night and everyone is gathered around this Harley. I didn’t understand what all the buzz was about with people pointing at the air cleaner lid. It was one of the first of the efi line.
> 
> Many years later I sold the vmax and a couple years ago I bought a Road King with efi. Startup is instant and smooth. I’m sure the Airens efi is going to catch on throughout the industry eventually once all the parts issues (fuel pumps) are behind them. It is interesting to watch a convergence of technology happening. Larger OPE engines getting more efficient with efi and smaller ope like trimmers and blowers falling to the battery power market. Just my thoughts.



I've owned and worked on many carbureted engines and cars. My favorite has always been the Quadrajet, though many hate it. I never had issues with smooth and instant starting, in fact I'd say my Qjets started faster than EFI cars I've had if they had been running recently. The Qjet's were by far more responsive, but as I've said on here before I believe that's because EFI cars are intentionally programmed to delay things for emissions, I do not believe it's part of the technology.

I think for the average Joe EFI is more reliable but it never seemed to improve anything in my life other than fuel economy. 

*If people feel an EFI 420 is some how stronger than an identical carbureted 420 I'm going to suggest the carbureted 420 is running too lean.* If I had the choice I'd rather invest that extra (_$1100 was it??_) in a bigger engine than EFI on a snowblower. Yes, I understand the EFI is allowing the engine to produce more power while remaining lean, but that's not what this discussion is about.

FYI, someone had mentioned a while back that carburetors produced better atomization than EFI. This may be true for port injection but best I can tell direct injection offers better atomization than carb. GDI of course has it's own cons.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Smokie1 said:


> EFI has been on option on Ariens machines for 4-5 years now I believe. I’m guessing 60% of the failures I’ve read about are pump/fuel pressure related, 30% battery /charging related failures, and 10% owner failure to read the owners manual and realize they need to occasionally plug it in LOL. If it is the wave of the future for snowblowers, and there are problematic parts (fuel pumps), and you wanted to move your customer base towards purchasing this new tech, wouldn’t you upgrade/improve this part? Last year when the supply chain thing hit, guys had new machines failing, and they were waiting months for parts for EFI machines. When I have had a carb related issue with one of my older machines, they start running rough, starting poorly, or requiring the choke to be left open a notch. This gives me a chance to address the problem before I can’t use the machine. From all the reports on this forum I’ve read, this is not so with EFI. It’s running fine when you put it away, and then it won’t start when you try to use it next. I have had a chance to use a EFI machine at my dealer. I liked the way it started and ran, but I stand close to my machine when operating, and my dang jacket hits that knob and changes the engine speed. I’ve read people complaining about there not being enough tension on that knob for years, and as of last year, the knob is in the same place, and it’s just as easy to turn. As far as you haven’t owned an EFI machine, so you don’t know how great they are…. maybe, but I love my 24” Platinum SHO with a carb, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything!


I’m not worried about supply chain, I just have parts on hand (spare carb, carb kit, etc). It’s the 800 purchase premium and 300 worth of EFI parts to swap out, and what benefit am I getting? I think I can buy lots of trufuel with that money and almost not have any carb issues. 

I believe once everyone is onboard with EFI the parts should get cheaper, as well,as the initial purchase. 

The only benefit for me would be the better throttle response, and governor response JJ refered to. He even admits it’s not world beating, and he has compared them side by side. 

I also agree that a carb willl give you warning signs. EFI is awesome when it works. When it decides to not work, it just stops working. 

Sometimes just putting a high concentration of seafoam works, and often just dropping the bowl and cleaning the set suffices. 

EFI at a minimum is swapping something out. 

I really like the EFI Great Lakes. I love the simple “everything on the panel” layout. If Ariens had a 12 volt electric start system that also powered the ecu they’d have a winner. 

The Ariens battery charging is dumb. Dumb connector. Maybe use a battery tender? Manual says to not charge more than 24 hours or something…. Not sure why. 

It’d be nice if you can charge the battery off of the electric start instead of looking underneath and undoing the plastic clips. 
It would be like a Honda (panel layout).


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> I've owned and worked on many carbureted engines and cars. My favorite has always been the Quadrajet, though many hate it. I never had issues with smooth and instant starting, in fact I'd say my Qjets started faster than EFI cars I've had if they had been running recently. The Qjet's were by far more responsive, but as I've said on here before I believe that's because EFI cars are intentionally programmed to delay things for emissions, I do not believe it's part of the technology.
> 
> I think for the average Joe EFI is more reliable but it never seemed to improve anything in my life other than fuel economy.
> 
> ...


In Canada it’s an 800 premium for a platinum 24 EFI. My dealer isn’t open weekends so to avoid being stranded if EFI goes down Friday evening I’d need 300 in EFI parts on hand. 

A spare Ariens carb is about 50 bucks. I can swap out on the spot, clean the dirty carb, and add a kit for 13 bucks. 

I can almost avoid carb issues. I can’t avoid EFI problems. They just happen.


----------



## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Nan_wpg said:


> In Canada it’s an 800 premium for a platinum 24 EFI. My dealer isn’t open weekends so to avoid being stranded if EFI goes down Friday evening I’d need 300 in EFI parts on hand.
> 
> A spare Ariens carb is about 50 bucks. I can swap out on the spot, clean the dirty carb, and add a kit for 13 bucks.
> 
> I can almost avoid carb issues. I can’t avoid EFI problems. They just happen.


But is EFI the only difference in that case or does the $800 get other extras, and if so are they useful or just pretty lights or an electric chute etc?


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> But is EFI the only difference in that case or does the $800 get other extras, and if so are they useful or just pretty lights or an electric chute etc?


You get EFI, electric chute, and the bucket led light. Don’t care about the light, and I think electric chute is a blessing, it’s got the ability to be a curse and decide to just stop working, much like the EFI system. 

I’m with you, just buy the 420 bigger engine. I’d be doing this if my garage had the room. The Ariens pro are very nice machines.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

vmax29 said:


> I remember riding up to Americade in Lake George NY years ago on my Yamaha Vmax, That V4 engine used 4 carbs all in tune. The bike was super reliable and would start every time without fail. So we are hanging out one night and everyone is gathered around this Harley. I didn’t understand what all the buzz was about with people pointing at the air cleaner lid. It was one of the first of the efi line.
> 
> Many years later I sold the vmax and a couple years ago I bought a Road King with efi. Startup is instant and smooth. I’m sure the Airens efi is going to catch on throughout the industry eventually once all the parts issues (fuel pumps) are behind them. It is interesting to watch a convergence of technology happening. Larger OPE engines getting more efficient with efi and smaller ope like trimmers and blowers falling to the battery power market. Just my thoughts.


The pump seems to be the biggest culprit. Possibly a bad batch? Covid production issues? Guy working the pump making machine hated his job? Lol. 

Are fuel pumps usually an issue? I’ve never had an issue in a vehicle? Is a car fuel pump different than a blower fuel pump? Are they the same just different,sized? No idea.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

8-5 EFI to carb


----------



## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Nan_wpg said:


> You get EFI, electric chute, and the bucket led light. Don’t care about the light, and I think electric chute is a blessing, it’s got the ability to be a curse and decide to just stop working, much like the EFI system.
> 
> I’m with you, just buy the 420 bigger engine. I’d be doing this if my garage had the room. The Ariens pro are very nice machines.


I'd like to see a stock EFI 420 on the dyno along with a stock carb 420 and a 420 with a proper jet.
Of course that'll never happen but I'd bet the richer jetted carb 420 would either hold it's own against the EFI or beat it.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> I'd like to see a stock EFI 420 on the dyno along with a stock carb 420 and a 420 with a proper jet.
> Of course that'll never happen but I'd bet the richer jetted carb 420 would either hold it's own against the EFI or beat it.


Are you talking Ariens? Aren’t they usually jetted properly? Honda had a jet issue. There’s a mega thread on it. 

I didn’t even realize rejecting was a thing until I read the Honda thread.


----------



## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Nan_wpg said:


> Are you talking Ariens? Aren’t they usually jetted properly? Honda had a jet issue. There’s a mega thread on it.
> 
> I didn’t even realize rejecting was a thing until I read the Honda thread.


Going by every ATV I've had since 2003 and my understanding of small engines I'd be willing to bet every lawnmower and snowblower currently sold is on the lean side at best. Most likely very lean. I think Honda may have pushed it a little too far but they're not the only ones, no. Even the Tecumseh 8HP that used to be on my 1999 Ariens with it's non-adjustable carb was leaner than I'd like. I ended up putting an adjustable carb on it.

My Predator 420 was extremely lean out of the box even in warm weather.

This is why I'd bet a new carb 420 seems weaker than an EFI 420. The EFI works much better under such conditions and has better overall control.

My 420 came with a .040 jet in it and I'm currently using a .043. I may end up going even bigger, not sure yet.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> Going by every ATV I've had since 2003 and my understanding of small engines I'd be willing to bet every lawnmower and snowblower currently sold is on the lean side at best. Most likely very lean. I think Honda may have pushed it a little too far but they're not the only ones, no. Even the Tecumseh 8HP that used to be on my 1999 Ariens with it's non-adjustable carb was leaner than I'd like. I ended up putting an adjustable carb on it.
> 
> My Predator 420 was extremely lean out of the box even in warm weather.
> 
> ...


Ya, I have no idea. All I know is the Honda guys were rejecting brand new machines. The Ariens guys (and others) mostly just have/had clogging issues. I haven’t found a massive rejet thread on non Honda yet. There’s been the odd drilling of the pilot jets for surging. 

Here’s another thought (keep in mind just my opinion and I’m no expert)….

If most carbs are lean, or too lean from the factory as per EPA (causing everyone to,drill, or re jet), then wouldn’t the EFI systems ALSO be lean, or on the lean side as per EPA? At least with a carb you can rejet until appropriate whereas EFI you are stuck?

I see EFI as an advantage for altitude, but,again, does it adjust for altitude, but still on the lean side per EPA?


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

My Ariens Platinum 414 is jetted correctly from stock. I tried rejetting with a one step richer and a couple of steps richer there is no performance improvement. I expect the Ariens 420 carb in my 2022 Ariens Pro 28 RapidTrak is similarly jetted correctly. The EFI 420 engine is spec’d to run at 3,650 rpm rather than the 3,600 of the carbureted engine. The governor setting on the carbureted engine is not a precision mechanism and is usually not set for 3,600 at the factory. While the EFI engine has an electronic governor that is likely accurate and probably more responsive.

It is not surprising to me that the Ariens 420 EFI engine performs better than the carbureted engine as the owner(s) have stated. So leave the jetting alone on the carbureted 420 engine and up the governed engine speed to 3,700 rpm and then compare. May be a more equal result .


----------



## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Town said:


> My Ariens Platinum 414 is jetted correctly from stock. I tried rejetting with a one step richer and a couple of steps richer there is no performance improvement.


Sounds like Ariens/LCT have the jetting figured out. On my 2017 Honda HSS1332AATD (GX390), it was clearly too lean and needed a bit of choke to run smoothly at high idle. Going from a #102 jet to a #110 solved that issue. The #110 is now the stock jet, so Honda figured it out, too. This is the only engine I've ever had to rejet out of close to 50 life-to-date.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Town said:


> My Ariens Platinum 414 is jetted correctly from stock. I tried rejetting with a one step richer and a couple of steps richer there is no performance improvement. I expect the Ariens 420 carb in my 2022 Ariens Pro 28 RapidTrak is similarly jetted correctly. The EFI 420 engine is spec’d to run at 3,650 rpm rather than the 3,600 of the carbureted engine. The governor setting on the carbureted engine is not a precision mechanism and is usually not set for 3,600 at the factory. While the EFI engine has an electronic governor that is likely accurate and probably more responsive.
> 
> It is not surprising to me that the Ariens 420 EFI engine performs better than the carbureted engine as the owner(s) have stated. So leave the jetting alone on the carbureted 420 engine and up the governed engine speed to 3,700 rpm and then compare. May be a more equal result .


Did you use Honda jets? 
Did you have to adjust the governor speed? (It’s moving the spring?)

LCT service manual says 2850 max, and 2050 idle. But I see people 2200 idle. When you move the spring to bump up the max, the idle goes up as well? 

And the plastic jet screw / idle screw, is that what adjusts the idle too? Any idea how to adjust this screw? (Let’s say you take the pilot jet out to clean)


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> Did you use Honda jets?
> Did you have to adjust the governor speed? (It’s moving the spring?)
> 
> LCT service manual says 2850 max, and 2050 idle. But I see people 2200 idle. When you move the spring to bump up the max, the idle goes up as well?
> ...


Yes, Honda jets fit and that is what i used. My governor was already set for 3,900 rpm. There are two adjustment points. The fixed mount on the cooling cover and the holes for the other end of the spring on the governor short arm. The outermost hole is what i used. The next hole away from outer end is stock. I have 4 holes on my Platinum, other members have 3 holes. My Pro has 3 normal sized holes and 1 tiny one inboard. The second from outermost is stock. To get 3,900 i also adjusted the fixed end of the spring by moving it toward the muffler just a bit.

Idle speed is not controlled by the governor. There is a small philips head fitting in a wheel that screws into a fitting to set the idle speed by moving the throttle arm. Don’t adjust the low speed screw near the idle speed “wheel” since Ariens has the correct setting already. To adjust idle speed you have to get direct access to the carb, so i drilled a hole in carb cover to acces the philips screw with a screwdriver, be careful of exhaust doing that. My Pro idles at 2,600 rpm and it doesn’t bother me. I only use it to shut down the engine since it shuts off smoother than full throttle or running it out of gas.


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Nan_wpg said:


> Ya, I have no idea. All I know is the Honda guys were rejecting brand new machines. The Ariens guys (and others) mostly just have/had clogging issues. I haven’t found a massive rejet thread on non Honda yet. There’s been the odd drilling of the pilot jets for surging.
> 
> Here’s another thought (keep in mind just my opinion and I’m no expert)….
> 
> ...


There is a barometric sensor, so it should compensate for both physical altitude changes, as well as barometric changes at your location. (The blower cannot tell the difference, so I think, overall, that mixture will be far better than on a carbed engine, where they need to jet for "worst case" likely leaving it woefu.ly off in many locations!


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Town said:


> Yes, Honda jets fit and that is what i used. My governor was already set for 3,900 rpm. There are two adjustment points. The fixed mount on the cooling cover and the holes for the other end of the spring on the governor short arm. The outermost hole is what i used. The next hole away from outer end is stock. I have 4 holes on my Platinum, other members have 3 holes. My Pro has 3 normal sized holes and 1 tiny one inboard. The second from outermost is stock. To get 3,900 i also adjusted the fixed end of the spring by moving it toward the muffler just a bit.
> 
> Idle speed is not controlled by the governor. There is a small philips head fitting in a wheel that screws into a fitting to set the idle speed by moving the throttle arm. Don’t adjust the low speed screw near the idle speed “wheel” since Ariens has the correct setting already. To adjust idle speed you have to get direct access to the carb, so i drilled a hole in carb cover to acces the philips screw with a screwdriver, be careful of exhaust doing that. My Pro idles at 2,600 rpm and it doesn’t bother me. I only use it to shut down the engine since it shuts off smoother than full throttle or running it out of gas.


3900 is within spec, but I’m curious why you chose 2600 for idle? 

To adjust idle are you referring to the idle stop screw (that holds the pilot jet down) 

The “don’t touch” screw is the pilot screw? (Pictures and YouTube videos I’ve watched show lct carbs don’t have the pilot screw?? Deluxe series so maybe it’s a different carb than platinum and pro)

That’s a great idea to drill the cover. That’s old school like my old machine. It has an access hole in the cover.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

tadawson said:


> There is a barometric sensor, so it should compensate for both physical altitude changes, as well as barometric changes at your location. (The blower cannot tell the difference, so I think, overall, that mixture will be far better than on a carbed engine, where they need to jet for "worst case" likely leaving it woefu.ly off in many locations!


I have no doubt when EFI works, it’s “better”. It’s the reliability that’s concerning at this point.


----------



## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Nan_wpg said:


> I have no doubt when EFI works, it’s “better”.


i wouldn't say what they use on small engines is better. it is no different than a computerized carb at this point. i would say without a o2 sensor it really can't run as efficiently as possible all the time. it may not be a huge issue with stuff like snowblowers but i know my friends stump grinder is fuel injected with likely the same type of system and it sucks. if you go too fast it can cause the engine to stall because the engine needs to be leaned out but the computer can't do that because it doesn't know what is going on. you can usually tell it ran rich from the backfires out the exhaust when trying to re-start it. it also almost always require extra cranking after a stall compared to a regular start. i would guess this may be to clear the cylinder of being flooded. i personally think they may get electric snowblowers right before they get the fuel injected ones right.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> i wouldn't say what they use on small engines is better. it is no different than a computerized carb at this point. i would say without a o2 sensor it really can't run as efficiently as possible all the time. it may not be a huge issue with stuff like snowblowers but i know my friends stump grinder is fuel injected with likely the same type of system and it sucks. if you go too fast it can cause the engine to stall because the engine needs to be leaned out but the computer can't do that because it doesn't know what is going on. you can usually tell it ran rich from the backfires out the exhaust when trying to re-start it. it also almost always require extra cranking after a stall compared to a regular start. i would guess this may be to clear the cylinder of being flooded. i personally think they may get electric snowblowers right before they get the fuel injected ones right.


I suppose Ariens could always add an 02 sensor where needed, and then update the ecu? No idea. Just guessing. 

Here’s another thought… instead of making things “better” for the environment, I.e EFI, and whatnot, why not keep the adjustable, and cleanable carbs? Keeping a snowblower for 30+ years is better for the planet than constantly replacing ecu’s, throttle assemblies, and fuel pumps? 

Neighbor bought an ego (I think) battery blower. Expensive, no power, and the batteries don’t last as long as they say. Especially when cold. He also has a toro electric mower. It works well except when the grass is really long. Then it sucks. He has to raise the deck, cut, lower deck, cut again. Hooray batteries, lol.


----------



## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

Nan_wpg said:


> I suppose Ariens could always add an 02 sensor where needed, and then update the ecu? No idea. Just guessing.
> 
> Here’s another thought… instead of making things “better” for the environment, I.e EFI, and whatnot, why not keep the adjustable, and cleanable carbs? Keeping a snowblower for 30+ years is better for the planet than constantly replacing ecu’s, throttle assemblies, and fuel pumps?
> 
> Neighbor bought an ego (I think) battery blower. Expensive, no power, and the batteries don’t last as long as they say. Especially when cold. He also has a toro electric mower. It works well except when the grass is really long. Then it sucks. He has to raise the deck, cut, lower deck, cut again. Hooray batteries, lol.


They ditched adjustable carbs because people had them running richer than the EPA etc would allow. The fixed jet carbs from later ran leaner and you couldn't change it.

The current Ariens carb'ed snowblowers may run _ok_ but I highly doubt they are tuned for max power. If it won't restart hot a minute after being shut off without the choke I'd say it's likely lean.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> They ditched adjustable carbs because people had them running richer than the EPA etc would allow. The fixed jet carbs from later ran leaner and you couldn't change it.
> 
> The current Ariens carb'ed snowblowers may run _ok_ but I highly doubt they are tuned for max power. If it won't restart hot a minute after being shut off without the choke I'd say it's likely lean.


Wouldn’t a “properly” adjusted carb run better, thus clearing snow quicker, thus reducing emissions? 
People are,swapping out jets, drilling them out, tinkering (with a carbon footprint?) anyways so what’s the point?

I’d like to know what percentage of emissions/global warning/climate change adjustable carbs contribute?


----------



## Smokie1 (Sep 17, 2019)

Nan_wpg said:


> Wouldn’t a “properly” adjusted carb run better, thus clearing snow quicker, thus reducing emissions?
> People are,swapping out jets, drilling them out, tinkering (with a carbon footprint?) anyways so what’s the point?
> 
> I’d like to know what percentage of emissions/global warning/climate change adjustable carbs contribute?


I’d be real curious as to how many EFI snowblowers Ariens sells in a year compared to carbureted machines? You’d think if they were so much “Better” consumers would be buying more of them every year just through word of mouth recommendations of satisfied customers??? I know I talk up AutoTurn to any of my friends looking to buy a machine as it’s a great system.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Smokie1 said:


> I’d be real curious as to how many EFI snowblowers Ariens sells in a year compared to carbureted machines? You’d think if they were so much “Better” consumers would be buying more of them every year just through word of mouth recommendations of satisfied customers??? I know I talk up AutoTurn to any of my friends looking to buy a machine as it’s a great system.


According to my dealer people aren’t buying EFI simply because it’s 800 more. 

Personally I don’t mind spending more if there’s a benefit, reliability, making things easier, faster, etc. 

Currently EFI costs and potential for failure outweigh “old school” reliability given my current willingness, and ability to service, and maintain a carb’d machine, including proper fuel management (which will eliminate most snowblower problems) 

Bells and whistles are awesome until they don’t work.


----------



## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

People more often than not buy what ever is cheaper. That's why we have so many almost useless cheap snowblowers at stores.

It's also why we have wonderful "pretty" appliances that work poorly and only last 5-10 years.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> People more often than not buy what ever is cheaper. That's why we have so many almost useless cheap snowblowers at stores.
> 
> It's also why we have wonderful "pretty" appliances that work poorly and only last 5-10 years.


Almost every single product line has a good, better, best. Generally you get what you pay for. I always try and buy at least better. 

Ironically when we are young, mortgage, raising kids we can only afford good, or lower. I’m at a stage now I can buy the best, and if I were able to do so in the first place I’d still have the original item. 

My grandfather always told me “cheap (enter said product) are for rich people”. Buy once cry once. 

Agreed on the cheap blowers. In normal pre Covid times once the snow starts all the cheaper blowers sell out. After a blizzard the expensive ones sell out of desperation. 

My dealer sells mostly deluxe. A few platinum. Not many lower end. Most people who go to a lawn garden place,for a blower are prepared to spend a bit more than Home Depot. 

People like to blame companies for garbage but the consumer is also to blame.


My dishwasher, stove, freezer, and washer are 20 years old. Hot water tank 20 years (I’m shocked). Fridge lasted 15, dryer 10 years.


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> 3900 is within spec, but I’m curious why you chose 2600 for idle?
> 
> To adjust idle are you referring to the idle stop screw (that holds the pilot jet down)
> 
> ...


I did not adjust the idle screw. That is the factory setting which is ok for me.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Town said:


> I did not adjust the idle screw. That is the factory setting which is ok for me.


What did you adjust for idle? (You drilled the cover for access so I assummed it was the throttle stop screw.)


----------



## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

@Nan_wpg my main fridge turns 90 next year.

Trust me, the "best" today is made poorly.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

ChrisJ said:


> @Nan_wpg my main fridge turns 90 next year.
> 
> Trust me, the "best" today is made poorly.


That has not been my experience.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Town is this what your carb looks like?


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Why can’t I post pictures anymore?


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

I tap on the camera thingie and nothing happens


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Following files don’t have an extention???


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Smokie1 said:


> I’d be real curious as to how many EFI snowblowers Ariens sells in a year compared to carbureted machines? You’d think if they were so much “Better” consumers would be buying more of them every year just through word of mouth recommendations of satisfied customers??? I know I talk up AutoTurn to any of my friends looking to buy a machine as it’s a great system.





ChrisJ said:


> People more often than not buy what ever is cheaper. That's why we have so many almost useless cheap snowblowers at stores.
> 
> It's also why we have wonderful "pretty" appliances that work poorly and only last 5-10 years.


I agree most people will buy the cheapest that they think will work for them. Currently Ariens lists 21 2-stage machines on their website. Only 6 of them are offered with EFI. The cheapest being the deluxe 30 EFI @ $2199. With size of that machine alone I think most people would disqualify it for being too big. When factoring all of this together, the average consumer isn't even considering an EFI machine.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Town said:


> I did not adjust the idle screw. That is the factory setting which is ok for me.





Town said:


> I did not adjust the idle screw. That is the factory setting which is ok for me.











is this your carb?


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

JJG723 said:


> I agree most people will buy the cheapest that they think will work for them. Currently Ariens lists 21 2-stage machines on their website. Only 6 of them are offered with EFI. The cheapest being the deluxe 30 EFI @ $2199. With size of that machine alone I think most people would disqualify it for being too big. When factoring all of this together, the average consumer isn't even considering an EFI machine.


Platinum 24 is cheaper. I think 2k USD?


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> Platinum 24 is cheaper. I think 2k USD?


That machine is $2,000 but is not offered with EFI. The Platinum 24 Great lakes edition has the EFI for $2400.


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> What did you adjust for idle? (You drilled the cover for access so I assummed it was the throttle stop screw.)


Yes, the throttle stop screw, it is a round plastic piece with a philips screw head machined in the center of the plastic. It moves the throttle mechanism for the idle system.


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> View attachment 199811
> 
> is this your carb?


No my carb has the choke lever as a vertical steel flat plate in the center of the vertical throttle housing. You can see the idle speed round control with the philips head in the picture though.


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Town said:


> No my carb has the choke lever as a vertical steel flat plate in the center of the vertical throttle housing. You can see the idle speed round control with the philips head in the picture though.





Nan_wpg said:


> View attachment 199811
> 
> is this your carb?


Here are some pics of the carb on my 2015 Ariens Platinum:
























In the above pics you can see the throttle and choke mechanism, and the idle throttle adjustment round black plastic headed screw to adjust the idle speed. Hope this helps you.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Town said:


> Here are some pics of the carb on my 2015 Ariens Platinum:
> View attachment 199822
> 
> 
> ...


yikes, all that plastic. Guess that’s just how things are made.

forgive my ignorance but to adjust governor speed carb is set to run, and it’s set by adjusting spring? I only see one hole for the spring??

to adjust idle carb is set to idle and pilot screw wheel thing is adjusted? Correct?

really appreciate the responses, and the pictures. I hope your not out there taking stuff apart to take pics on my account? Lol. If yes, next time I’m out west dinner and beers are on me.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Town, disregard above post. I’ve read you post from 2016 and how to adjust the engine speed by moving spring under gas tank.

but since the throttle control is linked to the springs, as you increase the running speed the idle speed goes up as well right? Then you fine tune with the plastic screw?


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> Town, disregard above post. I’ve read you post from 2016 and how to adjust the engine speed by moving spring under gas tank.
> 
> but since the throttle control is linked to the springs, as you increase the running speed the idle speed goes up as well right? Then you fine tune with the plastic screw?


When you adjust the governor spring you are controlling the governed engine speed. The stronger you make the spring (static fixed end moved toward muffler) or using the extra leverage and extended length of the spring (moving the spring to the outer hole) the more leverage the spring has. So the stronger spring increases engine speed to governed engine speed in the full throttle position of the grey coloured throttle control. When you turn the throttle toward idle position the effective spring strength is reduced and so the governed engine speed is reduced fairly quickly. When the throttle control is at idle position there is no governor spring tension on the throttle linkages and throttle plate control is entirely subject to the position of the black plastic screw on the throttle plate. Turning the screw inward (clockwise) increases engine idle speed. Unscrewing (counter clockwise) lowers engine idle speed with the help of the spring loaded throttle plate.

The small spring and rod you see at the carb work with the throttle control (grey plastic part under the red choke control) to give the governor the ability to change throttle position and therefore governed engine speed. The little spring serves to tension the throttle plate to full throttle all the time but the rod controls the actual position of the throttle plate. So when the throttle is in full open position the engine starts at full throttle. As the governor inside the crankcase accelerates, it exerts a centrifugal force from small weights that push a rod to move the governor arm. So the governor arm moves to reduce the full throttle opening by pushing the rod toward the carb and reduce the throttle position to the governed engine speed. As the engine is subject to increased loading the force of the governor weights is matched by the governor spring to maintain the governed engine speed. If the load increases beyond the power of the engine then actual engine speed drops until the load decreases or the engine stalls from lack of power.

In my experience of snowblower engines the governed speed from the factory is usually less than the manufacturers specs. My last 3 machines had this problem. They performed a lot better when governed speed was increased. A tach/hour meter is very handy to monitor engine speed in operation.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> Why can’t I post pictures anymore?


Unknown... you're not in trouble or anything. 😎 

Try a restart/clear cookies and cache and see what happens. Also make sure you're not blocking any essential scripts.

🍻


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Unknown... you're not in trouble or anything. 😎
> 
> Try a restart/clear cookies and cache and see what happens. Also make sure you're not blocking any essential scripts.
> 
> 🍻


figured it out. User error (hint your forums aren’t idiot proof) yes, I’m an idiot. Lol

Pictures have to be jpeg. The photo I attempted to upload was something els.


----------



## Nan_wpg (Jan 15, 2015)

Town said:


> When you adjust the governor spring you are controlling the governed engine speed. The stronger you make the spring (static fixed end moved toward muffler) or using the extra leverage and extended length of the spring (moving the spring to the outer hole) the more leverage the spring has. So the stronger spring increases engine speed to governed engine speed in the full throttle position of the grey coloured throttle control. When you turn the throttle toward idle position the effective spring strength is reduced and so the governed engine speed is reduced fairly quickly. When the throttle control is at idle position there is no governor spring tension on the throttle linkages and throttle plate control is entirely subject to the position of the black plastic screw on the throttle plate. Turning the screw inward (clockwise) increases engine idle speed. Unscrewing (counter clockwise) lowers engine idle speed with the help of the spring loaded throttle plate.
> 
> The small spring and rod you see at the carb work with the throttle control (grey plastic part under the red choke control) to give the governor the ability to change throttle position and therefore governed engine speed. The little spring serves to tension the throttle plate to full throttle all the time but the rod controls the actual position of the throttle plate. So when the throttle is in full open position the engine starts at full throttle. As the governor inside the crankcase accelerates, it exerts a centrifugal force from small weights that push a rod to move the governor arm. So the governor arm moves to reduce the full throttle opening by pushing the rod toward the carb and reduce the throttle position to the governed engine speed. As the engine is subject to increased loading the force of the governor weights is matched by the governor spring to maintain the governed engine speed. If the load increases beyond the power of the engine then actual engine speed drops until the load decreases or the engine stalls from lack of power.
> 
> ...


definately helps! i didn’t realize there was no spring tension when in low throttle position.

so in a nutshell… start engine, and at full throttle…. The further out from the governor arm pivot point the spring is, the higher the full throttle rpm, and the closer to the pivot point on the arm, the lower the full throttle rpm

now, in low throttle position turning screw in, increases low throttle rpm (by pushing throttle plate out). And vice versa.

I was getting confused with “idle”.

spring tension basically sets the high throttle engine speed, and the inside govenor stuff controls the engine speed as it speeds up and slows down as loads increase/decrease. It’s basically a balancing act between the throttle spring (on carb), governor spring, and inside centrifugal governor flyweights, etc. 

I think I also read somewhere you can also bend the “hooks” on the springs to fine tune the speed as Well.

it’s interesting that EFI is preset and you can’t adjust the speed like you can with springs. 

did I explain it back to you as i understand it? Or did I mess it up? Lol.

very much helpful.

do you have any suggestions, reading, and whatnot for me? Did you pick this up all on your own?


----------



## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Nan_wpg said:


> Wouldn’t a “properly” adjusted carb run better, thus clearing snow quicker, thus reducing emissions?
> People are,swapping out jets, drilling them out, tinkering (with a carbon footprint?) anyways so what’s the point?
> 
> I’d like to know what percentage of emissions/global warning/climate change adjustable carbs contribute?


Going down that road will mean no meat no ... no....


----------



## jherbicide (Oct 14, 2021)

I’m late to the party but…

EFI is great, but at least in its current design offering (Ariens/LCT) it’s a solid no for me.

I’d be open if it was less complex (example; battery). I can fix a plugged carburetor in relatively short time for no $ cost. Practically(!) speaking nothing besides a float needle can fail requiring replacement, and even if it does fail generally it won’t prevent operation.

I’d be more open to EFI on ‘anything’ besides a snowblower. I can live with my lawnmower being down for a few days waiting for parts. That snowblower better run when it needs to. Even though I’ve never had to, I can live with an hour of downtime and cuss words cleaning a carb after a storm. For me that risk right there outweighs any and all benefits of EFI.


----------



## Sam Am I (Oct 28, 2021)

*This'n* runs off carb spray, sounds like a dependable alternative, might just get it and take it home...LOL.

Sry had too!! Just caught my eye as funny, not sure why, maybe just seeing some guy running along side after buying it using spray into the carb to get his driveway cleared off. 

What? It could happen, we've all seen these ppl!! Okay, intermission over ............Let the eternal EFI verse Carb debate resume.


----------



## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Eh, it's a near moot point anyhow. Like it or not, dinosaur-fueled engines are inevitably going the way of the... dinosaur, sooner or later.

Poetic justice/full circle... still waiting for my Mr. Fusion. 🤞


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Nan_wpg said:


> definately helps! i didn’t realize there was no spring tension when in low throttle position.
> 
> so in a nutshell… start engine, and at full throttle…. The further out from the governor arm pivot point the spring is, the higher the full throttle rpm, and the closer to the pivot point on the arm, the lower the full throttle rpm
> 
> ...


Yes that is the way it works. As for the hooks, yes changing the hooks at the spring ends to effectively shorten the overall spring length will also increase engine rpm. The spring coils must not be touched though.

EFI uses sensors and electronics to manage engine speed. I would think that the engine governed speed can be changed by someone with the knowledge and resources to do so.


----------



## jherbicide (Oct 14, 2021)

Town said:


> Yes that is the way it works. As for the hooks, yes changing the hooks at the spring ends to effectively shorten the overall spring length will also increase engine rpm. The spring coils must not be touched though.
> 
> EFI uses sensors and electronics to manage engine speed. I would think that the engine governed speed can be changed by someone with the knowledge and resources to do so.


The knowledge and resources would be programming and software for EFI.


----------



## GeorgePowell (Mar 17, 2019)

Nan_wpg said:


> According to my dealer people aren’t buying EFI simply because it’s 800 more.
> 
> Personally I don’t mind spending more if there’s a benefit, reliability, making things easier, faster, etc.
> 
> ...


totally agree , read about my adventures with the 30 efi. Too mant questions and not enough answers as to reliability . Also if your fuel pump is defective or anything related they will not guaranty the repair...


----------



## GeorgePowell (Mar 17, 2019)

Smokie1 said:


> EFI has been on option on Ariens machines for 4-5 years now I believe. I’m guessing 60% of the failures I’ve read about are pump/fuel pressure related, 30% battery /charging related failures, and 10% owner failure to read the owners manual and realize they need to occasionally plug it in LOL. If it is the wave of the future for snowblowers, and there are problematic parts (fuel pumps), and you wanted to move your customer base towards purchasing this new tech, wouldn’t you upgrade/improve this part? Last year when the supply chain thing hit, guys had new machines failing, and they were waiting months for parts for EFI machines. When I have had a carb related issue with one of my older machines, they start running rough, starting poorly, or requiring the choke to be left open a notch. This gives me a chance to address the problem before I can’t use the machine. From all the reports on this forum I’ve read, this is not so with EFI. It’s running fine when you put it away, and then it won’t start when you try to use it next. I have had a chance to use a EFI machine at my dealer. I liked the way it started and ran, but I stand close to my machine when operating, and my dang jacket hits that knob and changes the engine speed. I’ve read people complaining about there not being enough tension on that knob for years, and as of last year, the knob is in the same place, and it’s just as easy to turn. As far as you haven’t owned an EFI machine, so you don’t know how great they are…. maybe, but I love my 24” Platinum SHO with a carb, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything!


You hit the nail on the head , my situation exactly !!!! As for the engine speed being moved , that is the easiest fix...put a garden hose rubber washer under the speed adjustment wheel and squish it down to your liking , very high tech... I traded for the Deluxe 28 HSO ( carburetor !)..bring on the snow !!


----------

