# High Test Gas?



## paulCT (Feb 3, 2015)

While chatting with my friend about my problem with my Ariens, he said his two dealers (snowblower and lawn mower) said he should use premium gas in his equipment. I never heard this before; I had always thought the only difference between premium and regular is the octane rating, but my buddy said premium has more additives.

Anybody hear of this? Searched for a thread on this subject here but didn't find any. I'd be willing to pay the extra $$ if it insured a better-running, less-fouling machine.


----------



## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

I have heard of it...it is a myth. Small engines are designed to run on 87 octane gas. MH


----------



## Josco (Jan 28, 2015)

I use 89 octane along with STA-BIL in all of my power equipment on the advise of my power equipment dealer. Have been doing this for years with no problems.


----------



## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

87 octane is all you need. I use a marine stabilizer to treat the ethanol and extend shelf life.


----------



## 1894 (Dec 16, 2014)

I use the premium because I have a gas station nearby that sells it without ethanol.


----------



## CO Snow (Dec 8, 2011)

The key is to look for gas without ethanol. Here's a start for you:

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada


----------



## Duff Daddy (Sep 22, 2014)

Not cheap but nothing good typically is...... 


I used VP in the race car for a while and now its in all the motors on the property.... Deere, Ariens mower, Stihl chain saw and Husqvarna Weed wacker....


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

Look for the closest airfield near you and fill up your jerry jug with the 91-no ethanol and add a light dose of stabil. 

then:

No 
more 
worries.


----------



## paulCT (Feb 3, 2015)

Thanks for the info!! I found a dealer VP in a nearby town and there is a medium size airport near me. I'll try both of those!

Thanks again....


----------



## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

1894 said:


> I use the premium because I have a gas station nearby that sells it without ethanol.


 This is the only good reason to use Premium in a small engine. 

Some people think you can get more power by using 94 octane or even higher. These are simple engines and the timing is fixed. If anything you may get less power or even burn out your exhaust valve.


----------



## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Duff Daddy said:


> Not cheap but nothing good typically is......
> 
> 
> I used VP in the race car for a while and now its in all the motors on the property.... Deere, Ariens mower, Stihl chain saw and Husqvarna Weed wacker....


Same Idea as Tru Fuel. Not a bad option if you can not get E-0 at a local gas station, marina or air field.


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

The small airport will be a lot cheaper than the canned fuel. Quality of both is very good, but the airport will be a lot cheaper. 

I pay under 5 bucks/gal. 

I know that's more than the station you (and I ) fill up the car/truck at but a 5 gallon purchase does my driveway through many storms.


----------



## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

1894 said:


> I use the premium because I have a gas station nearby that sells it without ethanol.



That's the real reason, no ethanol. Many places sell hi test without the added blessing of that nasty stuff that small carbs seem to be so very allergic to. I get mine at a local indian reservation where they have alcohol free high test.


----------



## Prof100 (Feb 9, 2015)

I am going to switch to AVGAS available at a small local airport for $5.20 a gallon which I pass everyday on my way to work. While 100 low lead (LL) is a higher octane than needed, the stability of the fuel is what I want for my lawn equipment, backup generator and snow blowers.


----------



## Bror Jace (Jan 13, 2015)

Wow, is ethanol _that_ bad? I use it in my cars and snowblower, mom's mower, etc ... with no problems. I sporadically use cleaners like Techron, Red Line SI-1 and even top lube products like MMO and Lucas UCL. At the end of the season, I add Stabil (still working on a large container of the "original" stuff) to the gas, run for a few minutes then place in storage.

I don't seem to have any problems. I think the key is to not let the fuel sit for any length of time. If it starts to get more than 2-3 months old, dump it in your daily driver (it won't notice it) and refill your yard can with fresh 87.


----------



## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Prof100 said:


> I am going to switch to AVGAS available at a small local airport for $5.20 a gallon which I pass everyday on my way to work. While 100 low lead (LL) is a higher octane than needed, the stability of the fuel is what I want for my lawn equipment, backup generator and snow blowers.


 
As I said earlier it is counter productive to use the 100 octane LL in a small engine. Unless your engine is a high compression engine designed for 92 or 93 octane and built before 1975(pre unleaded gas). (if such a small engine exists)You're better off using the 91 Avgas for several reasons. 

1. The higher the octane the slower the fuel burns. Since you can't advance the timing on a small engine the 100 octane will still be burning on the exhaust stroke. You won't get the full power the engine can deliver. Your muffler may get so hot it will turn red. You may wear your valves out prematurely.

2. You don't want to ingest any more lead than you have to? It is know to make you stupid, raise blood pressure and other unhealthy things.

3. Any E0 gas of 87-94 octane with a bit of Stabil added to it should be stabile enough. I have never heard anyone complain. 

4. Engines designed for non leaded gas have hardened valve seats and don't need additional lead to prevent valve seat regression. 

5. The 100 LL costs more than the lower octane Avgas.


If you don't believe me try it.


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

Prof100 said:


> I am going to switch to AVGAS available at a small local airport for $5.20 a gallon which I pass everyday on my way to work. While 100 low lead (LL) is a higher octane than needed, the stability of the fuel is what I want for my lawn equipment, backup generator and snow blowers.



Lead is not recommended. Better to get the 91 /no lead /no ethanol. 

Lead will leave you with some deposits in the system, not great for valves, and over time may cause running issues.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

paulCT said:


> While chatting with my friend about my problem with my Ariens, he said his two dealers (snowblower and lawn mower) said he should use premium gas in his equipment. I never heard this before; I had always thought the only difference between premium and regular is the octane rating, but my buddy said premium has more additives.
> 
> Anybody hear of this? Searched for a thread on this subject here but didn't find any. I'd be willing to pay the extra $$ if it insured a better-running, less-fouling machine.


You are better off with 87 octane gas. The engines are built to run low octane fuel. Higher octane has a slower burn rate than lower octane gas.
High octane or premium or high test can make starting harder because the engine has to spin much faster to properly ignite and get a fuller burn to push the piston down hard enough to cause the engine to continue to rotate to the next firing cycle.
You actually get easier starting, more power and better fuel economy with 87 octane fuel, plus it is cheaper than 93 octane. 
The higher octane burns slower but smoother, which was required for older engines. Much of it has to do with the combustion chamber design. Most of your newer engines have redesigned combustion chambers with not as much spark advance as to permit low octane or regular grade gasoline.
Also the small engines are not using high compression either so the use of high octane fuel is mostly a waste of money.
Even a lot of modern day motorcycles with higher compression engines recommend and run much better on regular gas than they do running high test.
The faster burn of lower octane has a more full burn effect in the cylinder pushing the piston down harder, more BTU volumetric efficiency as they call it.
The ethanol in the fuels today is used as an octane booster because it slows down the burn time and smoothens it out like the lead was used for years ago. Ethanol also is used as a strong solvent to help clean the fuel systems, but it also corrodes metal parts, ruins rubber and plastic parts, collects moisture, only has about 60 percent the efficiency of gasoline and pollutes much more with CO2 emissions. The "treehuggers" should like that.
Ethanol fuel also has a lot less power and causes small engines all sorts of problems because the parts aren't designed for it, and much less efficiency, terrible fuel milage, thanks to the EPA.


----------



## paulCT (Feb 3, 2015)

Again, thanks for all the input! You guys are the best!


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> You are better off with 87 octane gas. The engines are built to run low octane fuel. Higher octane has a slower burn rate than lower octane gas.
> High octane or premium or high test can make starting harder because the engine has to spin much faster to properly ignite and get a fuller burn to push the piston down hard enough to cause the engine to continue to rotate to the next firing cycle.
> You actually get easier starting, more power and better fuel economy with 87 octane fuel, plus it is cheaper than 93 octane.
> The higher octane burns slower but smoother, which was required for older engines. Much of it has to do with the combustion chamber design. Most of your newer engines have redesigned combustion chambers with not as much spark advance as to permit low octane or regular grade gasoline.
> ...



91 Octane will do NO HARM at all to a small engine, the non-ethanol 91 from the airfield is a superior fuel for sitting around, and just plain runs better too. A light dose of stabil will keep it a couple years easy.


----------



## Prof100 (Feb 9, 2015)

Pathfinder13 said:


> Lead is not recommended. Better to get the 91 /no lead /no ethanol.
> 
> Lead will leave you with some deposits in the system, not great for valves, and over time may cause running issues.


I have to drive 60 miles to buy non ethanol premium fuel. That little joy ride will cost me 3 gallons of gas.  The 100 low lead Avgas is available at a small airport I pass everyday going to and from work. I am well aware of lead's toxicity and don't plan on bathing or inhaling or the like.  Real Avgas sits in airplanes for more than a year. It poses no safety problem. The ethanol based fuels we are obliged to purchase to buoy up the corn growers association does save on gasoline but ethanol is a water magnet. Stabil or Ethanol shield helps but the water affinity of ethanol fuels is NOT stopped. My neighbor left ethanol based fuel in his Bolens. It wouldn't run even though the snowblower was barely used. He gave to me because he couldn't get in running. I took the carb apart, cleaned it. There was algae formed in the fuel bowl. 

Ethanol fuels are NOT permitted in aircraft because of the water affinity. The higher octane fuel is less combustible but I don't care. If my blower makes little less power I will adapt. However, I highly doubt it is noticeable.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Pathfinder13 said:


> 91 Octane will do NO HARM at all to a small engine, the non-ethanol 91 from the airfield is a superior fuel for sitting around, and just plain runs better too. A light dose of stabil will keep it a couple years easy.


You are right, 91 octane will work just fine, especially "airplane" gas without the ethanol. But don't go any higher than 91 octane, its not worth it.

Airplane fuel is held to much higher standards than automotive fuels.

Years ago I used to haul airplane fuel, 8000 gallons at a time. I remember the 80-88 octane "red fuel" and the 110-120 octane "blue gas". It had a very nice aroma to it that people a mile away could smell when you drove by with it burning in your car. It worked very well. That was 30 some years ago.

I remember bringing the empty tankers back to the terminals and draining out whatever was left in them to our gas cans and taking the stuff home for personal use. It did a good job of cleaning out the internals of the engine, never had to clean or replace spark plugs after a tank full of the "blue gas".

The only problem using it was hard starting, but after the car was running, it worked great, as long as you kept your foot mashed down on the gas pedal, it worked excellent.


----------



## TooTall9957 (Dec 14, 2013)

I'm lucky to have two grades of ethanol free gas here, 89 and 91 octane. I run 89 octane ethanol free in everything, no StaBil needed!


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

Prof100 said:


> I have to drive 60 miles to buy non ethanol premium fuel. That little joy ride will cost me 3 gallons of gas.  The 100 low lead Avgas is available at a small airport I pass everyday going to and from work. I am well aware of lead's toxicity and don't plan on bathing or inhaling or the like.  Real Avgas sits in airplanes for more than a year. It poses no safety problem. The ethanol based fuels we are obliged to purchase to buoy up the corn growers association does save on gasoline but ethanol is a water magnet. Stabil or Ethanol shield helps but the water affinity of ethanol fuels is NOT stopped. My neighbor left ethanol based fuel in his Bolens. It wouldn't run even though the snowblower was barely used. He gave to me because he couldn't get in running. I took the carb apart, cleaned it. There was algae formed in the fuel bowl.
> 
> Ethanol fuels are NOT permitted in aircraft because of the water affinity. The higher octane fuel is less combustible but I don't care. If my blower makes little less power I will adapt. However, I highly doubt it is noticeable.



I hear ya' on the algea. I just cleaned a carb for my friend and it was horrible. Would not start at all, all gunked up with seperated watery sludge and algea in the venturi area. I use four 3 min cycles in the ultrasonic cleaner with a little simple grean and dawn, then a short cycle just distilled water to rinse. Started on the first pull after and runs beautiful now. I put the small stuff in a little glass jelly jar and put it next to carb body and let the machine do it's thing. 

I was only pointing out to buy the no-lead if you can, as the low-lead is not preferred but if it's that far of a drive wow I don't blame you. I am lucky, have an airfield 6 miles away. They have LL 100 and No-lead 91 so I buy the 91 obviously and it's also 1.50/gal cheaper 

More snow on the way Sunday .

EDIT : ultrasonic cleaner has a little simple green, and a squirt of Dawn, but was solution was still about 70% water.


----------



## Prof100 (Feb 9, 2015)

Pathfinder13 said:


> I hear ya' on the algea. I just cleaned a carb for my friend and it was horrible. Would not start at all, all gunked up with seperated watery sludge and algea in the venturi area. I use four 3 min cycles in the ultrasonic cleaner with a little simple grean and dawn, then a short cycle just distilled water to rinse. Started on the first pull after and runs beautiful now. I put the small stuff in a little glass jelly jar and put it next to carb body and let the machine do it's thing.
> 
> I was only pointing out to buy the no-lead if you can, as the llow-ead is not preferred but if it's that far of a drive wow I don't blame you. I am lucky, have an airfield 6 miles away. They have LL 100 and No-lead 91 so I buy the 91 obviously and it's also 1.50/gal cheaper
> 
> More snow on the way Sunday .


 Bummer on the snow forecast.

My local airport only offers 100 LL. Too bad they don't offer the No-Lead 91.


----------



## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

ST1100A said:


> You are right, 91 octane will work just fine, especially "airplane" gas without the ethanol. But don't go any higher than 91 octane, its not worth it.
> 
> Airplane fuel is held to much higher standards than automotive fuels.
> 
> ...


+1........If E0 gas in a reasonable octane is not conveniently available then you can always use 87 E10 treated with Stabil. Buy in small quantities and Run your carb dry after each use. Install a fuel shut off if you don't have one. You can also run a little bit of a carb cleaner like sea foam or similar ...............

There is also Tru fuel which you can get at Lowes, Home Despot and many hardware stores. The VP fuel posted above looks similar but I don't know about availability. I doubt you have to drive too far to find one or the other. They are very expensive but if it gives folks peace of mind, I get it.

The people who have gunked up carbs usually let the gas sit for months and don't treat the gas. To every small engine mechanic's delight that describes most people.

Don't drive yourself nuts over this...... It is not worth it. 

I try to use Avgas 91 octane in my small engines but when I can't I just use the 87 E10 and do what I just described. So far I have never had an issue.

Best of Luck and good luck to all expecting the storm this week end!


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> +1........If E0 gas in a reasonable octane is not conveniently available then you can always use 87 E10 treated with Stabil. Buy in small quantities and Run your carb dry after each use. Install a fuel shut off if you don't have one. You can also run a little bit of a carb cleaner like sea foam or similar ...............
> 
> There is also Tru fuel which you can get at Lowes, Home Despot and many hardware stores. The VP fuel posted above looks similar but I don't know about availability. I doubt you have to drive too far to find one or the other. They are very expensive but if it gives folks peace of mind, I get it.
> 
> ...


Yeah one more thing, if you do end up falling back on the 87 e10 then after about 6 months in the can.. whatever is unused just dump it in your car or truck (it will mix with the large amount of fresh fuel and burn fine) and refresh the jerry jug with fresh fuel.  

-And be sure to store the machine with fuel shut off and carb bowl emptied.


----------



## RAYAR (Mar 7, 2015)

Fuels with ethanol should be avoided. Ethanol is alcohol based and attracts moisture, which will separate from the fuel over a short period of time when it's not being agitated. The alcohol also destroys rubber parts in the fuel systems of our older machines. Good reasons to avoid it! High grade gas is supposed to be ethanol free.


----------



## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

Pathfinder13 said:


> Yeah one more thing, if you do end up falling back on the 87 e10 then after about 6 months in the can.. whatever is unused just dump it in your car or truck (it will mix with the large amount of fresh fuel and burn fine) and refresh the jerry jug with fresh fuel.
> 
> -And be sure to store the machine with fuel shut off and carb bowl emptied.


6 months is too long. I've had ethanol phase separation after only 2 months, with stabil added at time of purchase; the engine stopped running and the fuel looked cloudy. The so-called ethanol treatments do NOTHING to stop phase separation, and they're a waste of money IMHO. 

I don't keep stabilized E10 sitting more than about 30 days before transferring it to the daily driver. I've switched to VP or Trufuel for my occasionally used small engines. It's more reliable but it's expensive and I'm going to check my local small airport for future supplies of AV gas.


----------



## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

I use Hi Test gasoline in all of my small engines, for the simple reason that Hi Test gasoline contains no ethanol. I also treat all of it with Seafoam. All of my small engines are seasonal, with the exception of my generator, which must always be ready to go at short notice. I prefer not to have to remember to rotate the fuel every six months and to have to remember how long the fuel has been in my jerry cans. For the seasonal engines, I change the oil at the end of the season and don't have to worry about draining the fuel. I fill everything with zero ethanol treated with Seafoam and I know I will have no issues with stale fuel. I live in a farming community and most of the farmers around here follow the same practice for all of their small engines that power grain augers, pumps and the like.


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

High-test gas isn't *always* ethanol-free. Here in Massachusetts, the typical high-test still has 10% ethanol. There are a few stations in MA that sell ethanol-free, but it's a handful scattered around the state. There are about the same number in New Hampshire as well. 

A good way to look for ethanol-free stations, if you don't have an airport or marina handy (I understand marina gas is ethanol-free, in part because the ethanol attacks fiberglass fuel tanks): 
Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

I use 87-octane, with Marine Sta-Bil added. If the engine has a fuel-shutoff (such my blower & generator), I typically run the carb dry after each use. 

There was only one time that plan backfired. I think the float in my generator's carb stuck to the bottom of the carb bowl, after running it dry. The next time I went to use it, I opened the shutoff, and gas kept pouring out of the carb. I started pulling the carb off, and suddenly it was fine again. My theory is the float stuck to some gunk on the bottom (having sat with the bowl dry for months), and came loose while I was jiggling the carb around, while taking the bolts off. That's speculation, though.


----------



## Loco-diablo (Feb 12, 2015)

Premium or ethanol free is not necessary for a 4 stroke small engine. I go by the manufacturer recommendation.
87 octane (ethanol) in ALL my small engines (Honda, B&S, Tecumseh) per recommendation. I refresh the can every month by pouring unused portions into my truck.

93 premium/oil/stabil mix in my Stihl and Husqvarna 2 stroke equipment per recommendation. 

I put 93 in my snowblower once and it popped, spitted and ran like crap.
I completely drain all fuels from my machines during the off seasons.


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

Loco-diablo said:


> Premium or ethanol free is not necessary for a 4 stroke small engine. I go by the manufacturer recommendation.
> 87 octane (ethanol) in ALL my small engines (Honda, B&S, Tecumseh) per recommendation. I refresh the can every month by pouring unused portions into my truck.
> 
> 93 premium/oil/stabil mix in my Stihl and Husqvarna 2 stroke equipment per recommendation.
> ...


You eliminate the issue of ethanol seperation by refreshing your jug every month or so and burning the old fuel in your vehicle. That's really great that you can remeber to do this you are taking care of the problem before seperation can occur and bravo for your effort and you are saving money using cheaper fuel and keeping it fresh .. 90/10 pump grade 87 works just fine like that.

However, for those who do not do this on such a schedule, because life in general is kinda busy..the 91 octane/ethanol free is a best friend without any doubt whatsoever, and if you keep 2 - 5gal jugs plus a 1.5 at all times in case of power loss (depends where you live I guess on that one) for a generator, refreshing this every couple months becomes a hassle and filling them at an airfield becomes a just an added expense, but one I am just *fine* with because it greatly increases the reliability of the equipment that sits around unused for periods of time. .. Everything runs great. Honda genie and Predator 301, and now an Rtek with 2 cycle oil too.

Note: I never drain the Honda Generator, just shut the gas and drain the carb bowl. I run it for five-ten minutes every few months mostly for the piston health so it doesn't sit too long. This way I need not fog it, and it's always ready-to-run.


----------



## sj701 (Jan 23, 2014)

In my experience, the key is to keep the water out.

So either use gas very quickly if it has ethanol 30 days or less, maybe longer with stabilizer.

Or buy gas that doesn't have ethanol in it and use it within 90 days or less, I put stabilizer in my stash of no-ethanol gas and keep it for a year, and then whats left goes in the car and I refill my 6 gallon jugs.

Around my place you can get no-ethanol gas at the oil companies that deliver fuel oil. Just have to ask for "Recreational gas" and they will top off your 6 gallon jugs if you goto their location. Otherwise it's about a 2 hour ordeal to go to the closest pump that has no-ethanol gas. Airports near Chicago where I live don't let you on property unless you belong there, so Av gas isn't an option for me.


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

SnowG said:


> 6 months is too long. I've had ethanol phase separation after only 2 months, with stabil added at time of purchase; the engine stopped running and the fuel looked cloudy. The so-called ethanol treatments do NOTHING to stop phase separation, and they're a waste of money IMHO.
> 
> I don't keep stabilized E10 sitting more than about 30 days before transferring it to the daily driver. I've switched to VP or Trufuel for my occasionally used small engines. It's more reliable but it's expensive and I'm going to check my local small airport for future supplies of AV gas.


That's interesting. I immediately stabilize all my small-engine fuel (E10, 87 octane). But my generator sat for over a year (I know, I should have changed out the fuel sooner  ). It took more pulls that normal to get it running, but after it fired up, it seemed fine. It is stored in the garage, though, which might help. 

My tractor lives outside (covered), and after the winter, it has also started up OK so far, with the fuel that's been sitting in it. 

I guess my experience with Sta-Bil has been pretty good. I use the Marine kind at the moment.


----------



## AriensSnowman (Dec 9, 2014)

If you're treating your gas with a stabilizer and it goes bad in 2 months, something else is very wrong. Where I live all premium gas has 10% ethanol, as does every grade. I treat everything with regular Stabil and have multiple pieces of machinery and have never had one suffer from bad fuel. A stabilizer won't make bad gas good, so that may be where some people have inconsistent results. Running your carb dry is a good habit to get into.


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

AriensSnowman said:


> If you're treating your gas with a stabilizer and it goes bad in 2 months, something else is very wrong. Where I live all premium gas has 10% ethanol, as does every grade. I treat everything with regular Stabil and have multiple pieces of machinery and have never had one suffer from bad fuel. A stabilizer won't make bad gas good, so that may be where some people have inconsistent results. Running your carb dry is a good habit to get into.


I can agree with that .Especially if you have multiple pieces of equip. Stabilized will last unless it's real humid out and it's sitting around a while. 

I will add that I had some stabilized fuel go bad between march > november... I am sure it's from the ethanol sucking in humidity over the summer months and then a phase seperation occured, leaving a whitish thick liquid at the bottom of it. I drained it into a clean and dry windshield fluid container and sat it on the bench for the afternoon, where the gunk went to the bottom once again.

Again, it was over a humid summer that did it, and Stabil didn't stop it from happening. 

That said, those with a lawnmower or tractor to start using the fuel in the spring and summer would have it all used up and this would never be an issue. Mine just sits around until I need it for the blower again, or we lose power and I need it for the Generator.


----------



## Prof100 (Feb 9, 2015)

*Troybilt / Briggs 7800 watt generator - same fuel since 2011*

This is story of some success using old fuel that's stabilized and having no problems. Since 2005 I have owned a whole house (minus AC) generator I use to plug into a transfer switch when storms and the like happen in my part rural residential neighborhood. I have been in my home for 25 years and it has gone from rural residential with farmers surrounding my home to big subdivision to the north, east and west of me. When it was truly rural one lighting strike to the east of me of felled branch and my power could be off for days. So, since I live off a well and my basement needs the sump working I spent $1400 for shiney new Troybilt (Briggs) 7800 watts continuous and 13500 watt surge generator. I used to use it two to three times a year back in 2005 through 2008 then it improved when subdivisions were built to the west and north of me. These new subdivision forced the electric utility to upgrade the power distribution in my area. I have not needed the generator since 2008 so my generator takes up valuable garage space and it has become a spring and fall maintenance item to keep it running in tip top shape. So, I have been diligent with treating the fuel with Stabil and starting it for 45 minutes twice a year. I have pumped out the 7 gallon tank once using a drain pump I used to use on my race car. That said, I have simply kept the fuel stabilized and added more STABIL every year until 2010 when daily living issues crowded out my generator maintenance plans (mother and father age related problems which they eventually passed away. Then, in 2013, my wife had some serious medical problems (cancer, MS complications, etc.) You know the drill. Life gets a bit more complicated as you get older. 

So, Since 2010 I started up and put on load on the generator in 2011, added more STABIL and new product to me ETHANOL SHIELD, and rolled it back into its storage location in the attached garage. After work today I uncovered the generator, dragged it out from its storage location (tires had gone flat). I aired the tires and tried to start the generator with the 10 year old on board AGM 18 AH battery. Click, click click -- the battery died after a long life. The Briggs float charger did a good job of keeping it going so long. *I jumped the generator with a battery (no recoil starter). IT FIRED RIGHT UP AND RAN GREAT! I have ordered a new battery, will pump out the old, long term stabilized gas. Here is the contradiction. The gasoline that's sold in Michigan is 10% ethanol. It has been that way for a decade. Now I ponder whether hunting down "recreation no ethanol regular gas" or AVGAS (no ethanol) is needed (or wanted). Was it the Stabil that preserved the fuel? Was it the addition of the Ethanol Shield back in 2011? Or a combination of the two? I have no idea, but it ran like new!*


----------



## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

Wow that is a tale of mystery to me, as my pump gas with stabil went bad after only one humid summer. It's just easier for me to fill my 5 gal. jug just 4 miles up the road at the airfield (literally! grass landing strip)and pay a bit more, then add a tiny bit of stabil and know there will be no issues, having been bitten before. Maybe your "sheild" product did the trick, I'm not sure, but happy for you that your machine fired right up for sure. 

On a different note, sorry about the parents and wife's health issues. I hope things are getting better/easier.


----------



## Prof100 (Feb 9, 2015)

Pathfinder13 said:


> Wow that is a tale of mystery to me, as my pump gas with stabil went bad after only one humid summer. It's just easier for me to fill my 5 gal. jug just 4 miles up the road at the airfield (literally! grass landing strip)and pay a bit more, then add a tiny bit of stabil and know there will be no issues, having been bitten before. Maybe your "sheild" product did the trick, I'm not sure, but happy for you that your machine fired right up for sure.
> 
> On a different note, sorry about the parents and wife's health issues. I hope things are getting better/easier.


 Thanks for the kind words regarding the family. Mother and father both lived long but died with dementia. Wife's cancer is in remission. MS is progressing but she still goes to work every day. Next project is remodeling the kitchen and the master bath to be more handicapped for her MS progression.

The 10% ethanol "old gasoline" in my generator that didn't degrade or gum up the fuel tank or carb simply stumps me. Yes, I added Stabil annually and then added to it Ethanol Shield flies in the face of what I and others have been talking about how difficult it is to use old ethanol gasoline. Go figure.

Bill


----------



## Loco-diablo (Feb 12, 2015)

Pathfinder13 said:


> You eliminate the issue of ethanol seperation by refreshing your jug every month or so and burning the old fuel in your vehicle. That's really great that you can remeber to do this you are taking care of the problem before seperation can occur and bravo for your effort and you are saving money using cheaper fuel and keeping it fresh .. 90/10 pump grade 87 works just fine like that.
> 
> However, for those who do not do this on such a schedule, because life in general is kinda busy..the 91 octane/ethanol free is a best friend without any doubt whatsoever, and if you keep 2 - 5gal jugs plus a 1.5 at all times in case of power loss (depends where you live I guess on that one) for a generator, refreshing this every couple months becomes a hassle and filling them at an airfield becomes a just an added expense, but one I am just *fine* with because it greatly increases the reliability of the equipment that sits around unused for periods of time. .. Everything runs great. Honda genie and Predator 301, and now an Rtek with 2 cycle oil too.
> 
> Note: I never drain the Honda Generator, just shut the gas and drain the carb bowl. I run it for five-ten minutes every few months mostly for the piston health so it doesn't sit too long. This way I need not fog it, and it's always ready-to-run.


This winter I was using it up before a month was up! Lol! It seemed I was using my blower every single week! I have a 3 gallon can, but never buy more than 1.5 gallons at a time. I actually keep a little note pad in the garage, when a month is getting close and it going to snow in the immediate future (within the next couple days) I top of my tank and dump the remainder of the can in my truck. Then it's off to the station for another 1.5! Kinda anal I know, but ethanol issues are a pain in the butt as we all know.


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

+1 on the Ethanol Shield. Before last winter (fall of 2013) bunch of us at work were discussing fuel stabilizers for snowblowers. 
Everyone had their opinion on which one to use so one guy we call Super Genius (ha!) did some research on the matter. In the end he found an independent lab that studied and tested Sta-Bil, Star Tron, Seafoam, and Ethanol Shield. Only the Ethanol Shield 100% eliminated the phase separation and kept the fuel fresh for the amount of time the product claimed. 

I started using it last season and left the fuel in the machines over the summer and all my engines ran perfectly this past fall when I did the pre-season prep. I did shut off the fuel line to run them dry and did not start them again till the fall. About 7 months later. 

Home Depot sells it in 8 oz. and 2 oz. bottles. 2oz. treats 5 gallons for 1 year. $3 for the 2oz. size and I think $12 for the other. I won't fill my can without it. 

Also I heard its important to use a sealed gas can as good practice independent of any stabilizer regardless.


----------



## sj701 (Jan 23, 2014)

This guys video pretty much mimics my experience when working in a small engine shop. Most users don't use stabilizer and keep the fuel too long in an unsealed can and end up with water problems. If you use stabilizer and a sealed can you may avoid problems with ethanol blend fuel.


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

It's ancillary to the discussion, but since sealed gas cans have been brought up. 

I bought an Eagle metal gas can a few years ago. 5 gallons, ~$40. I bought mine at Lowes (I thought I paid closer to $35 at the time), but this is the Amazon link: 

http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-UI-50-FS-Galvanized-Gasoline-Capacity/dp/B00004Y75M

It's more expensive than the plastic cans, but I love it. It seals up nicely, and pouring is easy, it has a yellow funnel that stays on the can's spout. You put the end of the funnel into the machine's tank, and squeeze the handle to open the spring-loaded flip cap on the can. It will flow basically as fast as you want. 

You don't have to shove the nozzle down onto the lip of the machine's tank to force a valve to open, like on my plastic can. And it seems like the can will last for a long time.


----------



## 1894 (Dec 16, 2014)

Speaking of gas cans , I've always hated the new "Compliant" ones and have tried many over the years . Smushing the lip of the can on the gas tank and the ones with some tiny lever with a heavy spring that sprays fuel sideways rather than down into the tank , I hate them all 
For my new snowblower I tried this brand. I really like it and it is easy to operate. 
Watch the video to see how it works.
http://www.amazon.com/No-Spill-1405-2-Gallon-Poly-Compliant/dp/B000W72GBC/ref=sr_1_4?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1426351851&sr=1-4&keywords=no+leak+gas+can


----------



## DaHen (Feb 15, 2015)

1894 said:


> For my new snowblower I tried this brand. I really like it and it is easy to operate.


Just purchased one of those last month from a local bike shop to replace an old can that I've had for years.
Won't be able to try it out till I empty the old one.


----------



## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

sj701 said:


> This guys video pretty much mimics my experience when working in a small engine shop. Most users don't use stabilizer and keep the fuel too long in an unsealed can and end up with water problems. If you use stabilizer and a sealed can you may avoid problems with ethanol blend fuel.
> 
> https://youtu.be/v3bXpgOgo98


In my experience, stabilizer (neither Stabil nor Startron brands) nor a sealed can will stop *phase separation*. IF YOU MUST use ethanol, I believe the only answers are:


Use stabilizer, or use the fuel within 30 days 
Even with stabilizer, refresh your fuel supply within 45 days of purchase, and run stored fuel through your daily driver if you can't use it within that timeframe. (This may be conservative, but I've experienced phase separation after only 60 days and the stabilized fuel became cloudy. In that situation the fuel can was stored outdoors but it was well sealed.) 
Run the carb dry by shutting off fuel supply before putting the machine away, unless you expect to be using it again within a week. 
Also drain the float bowl if putting it away for the season.


----------



## Ariensman (Aug 23, 2015)

1894 said:


> I use the premium because I have a gas station nearby that sells it without ethanol.



:iagree: I dislike ethanol & what it does to the inside of carbs. Otherwise I would buy regular.


----------



## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

you know what's funny is. I go over to the holiday gas station 2 blocks up from my house. fill the 5 gal tank with 87 octane. never put any kind of additive in it. the gas has been in that tank for over a year now. and I still run it. when I shut down the engines I just turn off the gas valve and let it run and die out. NEVER, EVER had a problem. and this is coming from some one that lives in the frozen tundra.k:k:k:k:k:


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Using ethanol free if you can find it and a stabilizer is just cheap insurance.
Running the carb dry each use is a good idea too if you're not sure how long it will be till you use it again.
My gas never lasts very long so I don't have to worry about it but the two cycle stuff is another story. I try to dump it every few months if I haven't use it. It goes into my pickup and never noticed any problem doing it. That way the chainsaws and trimmer have fresher gas.


----------

