# Toro 3650 Gas Octane Rating?



## JaCkaL829 (Jan 30, 2011)

Hello everyone,

Hope everyone is staying warm this winter! I just acquired a Toro CCR 3650 GTS this past Sunday. I have an older Ariens ST420 that has served me well, especially for creating paths for my dog in the grass. It is heavy to transport, and doesn't always clear down to the pavement. It's still a good machine that I don't want to part with. I did notice my neighbor across the street clearing some snow with a little Toro 2450 quite nicely. So I started a search for a smaller blower to compliment my Ariens, and I liked the Toro 3650, especially since it was small, powerful, and has a crank chute. I have a narrow driveway so anything over 20" is too wide. I had purchased a Honda HS621 prior to the Toro and I found it incredibly bulky, awkward and cumbersome. I bought it used, wiped it down with Armor All and put it right back on craiglist within a week. So I finally found a Toro 3650 and nabbed it. 

So my question basically is what type of gasoline is recommended to put in a Toro 3650? More specifically what octane level? The 3650 I just got is in mint condition. I also got all the manuals, and no where in it does it specify what octane level to put in the machine, other than 'fresh unleaded'. 

I'm just curious what is the recommended octane level gas for this machine? I plan on using Echo Power Blend X semi synthetic 2-stroke oil since it's easy to get, and has fuel stabilizers in it. But I'm not sure what to grade gas to mix it with. I have no problem putting expensive gas in it, I just want to make sure it won't cause problems. 

Thanks in advance!


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## katsboytoy (Feb 3, 2014)

My buddy on Long Island, who repairs most of the tree trimming equip in the area will always tell dummys like me to only use HIGH TEST in small engines. They are not cars and have no computers so don't use regular. By the way, ever since I started using high test, no more starting problems with any of my equipment...Tom..


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I get more run time with high test. Depending on the machine, it can be up to a full 30 minutes. 

Now, nothing will beat proper end of season maintenance, draining the carb and tank, but I do notice a lot fewer difficulties with using it. 

Just my to cents, and observations.


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## bilderberg (Feb 17, 2014)

I have always used 87 octane in my machines. Higher octane only limits the amount of pinging/detonating. The bigger deal is buying good gas that has quality detergents and additives, that will actually make a difference. Or use your own additives, stabilizers, dry gas.


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## Hova04 (Jan 9, 2014)

Hello
I'm no expert by any means but I also just recently bought a 3650E & followed done highly rec steps. I used tru-fuel since it came mixed and had no ethenol and came w stabil. But I purchased several bottles of the toro 50:1 oil in order to mix it myself, along w/ tw3 marine oil 50:1 which I heard will extend the life. the echo brand you plan to use I've heard by a handful of people that it's not good & not rated tw3 oil. 
Use high test when u mix your oil as others mentioned to give it the best cleanest mixer w the additives to help you prolong your machine. 
Hope this helps & whatever you do gl! Post some pics


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## JaCkaL829 (Jan 30, 2011)

Hova04 said:


> Hello
> I'm no expert by any means but I also just recently bought a 3650E & followed done highly rec steps. I used tru-fuel since it came mixed and had no ethenol and came w stabil. But I purchased several bottles of the toro 50:1 oil in order to mix it myself, along w/ tw3 marine oil 50:1 which I heard will extend the life. the echo brand you plan to use I've heard by a handful of people that it's not good & not rated tw3 oil.
> Use high test when u mix your oil as others mentioned to give it the best cleanest mixer w the additives to help you prolong your machine.
> Hope this helps & whatever you do gl! Post some pics


Thank you guys for the recommendations. I think I'll just use the highest octane I can get. Theres a Sunoco not far from me that I believe has Ultra which is 93 or 94. 

As for the oil, I'm a little confused the manual says it has to be NMMA TWC3 oil if not using the specific TORO oil which I'm sure is just relabeled oil. I was going to use the ECHO Power Blend, but now I'm not sure. All the NMMA TWC3 oils I find say they are made for water cooled boat and outboard engines. I can get some ultra hp from stihl which I hear burns clean, or go the TWC3 route with Pennzoil? 

Any suggestions would be great? I know the previous owner gave me a quart of generic Ace 2 stroke oil which I guess would work as long as the ratio is right, but I'm a little OCD when it comes to my machines and keeping them around for a long time.

I also found Husquarvna Pre-Mix 50:1 semi synthetic at Lowes...$8 a quart which is pretty steep but I like that the gas in it doesn't contain ethanol, and has a 95 octane rating, and it's stabilized. I may buy some just pour in at the end of the season to ensure my carb has fresh stabilized gas with no ethanol, than I guess drain the gas tank, although I've never been a fan of that.


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## Hova04 (Jan 9, 2014)

When getting your oil look for the labeling to read twc3 or nmma marine oil which is best. I'm not 100 % sure about the toro oil being nmma but the one I got said it's twc3 and has stabil. Though I purchased marine oil from what a tech rec. 
don't get that echo oil. I know it's neither from research w not so great reviews.


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## JaCkaL829 (Jan 30, 2011)

Hova04 said:


> When getting your oil look for the labeling to read twc3 or nmma marine oil which is best. I'm not 100 % sure about the toro oil being nmma but the one I got said it's twc3 and has stabil. Though I purchased marine oil from what a tech rec.
> don't get that echo oil. I know it's neither from research w not so great reviews.


I've been googling all morning why Toro recommends TWC3 marine outboard oil. I didn't find too much, but I think I'll use their recommendation. I can get Pennzoil Marine Premium Plus semi-synthetic for about $6 a quart locally which seemed fair to me. What TWC3 2 stroke oil did you get that also has fuel stabilizer in it? I'd prefer the fuel stabilizer in the actual oil so it's one less thing to mix in. 

It appears all the 2 cycle oil threads I read we're for lawnmowers, leaf blowers, trimmers, etc. It appears they don't need the TWC3 as it's a different application. I'll be passing on the ECHO Power Blend, just keeping my eyes open for a good TWC3 synthetic for my 3650.


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## bosco659 (Feb 1, 2013)

I always thought the TWC3 oil was only for water cooled engines. Hat being said, I purchased a bunch of OMC 2 stroke oil last summer that was for my Lawnboy mower and it is is TWC3 oil. It says right on the bottle that it is recommended for use in all Lawnboy products. Someone told me that the marine rated oils will be ok for slower running engines like snow blowers (3600 rpm) but will destroy high revving engines like chain saws and string trimmers. 

I have always used Stihl 2cycle oil in all of my machines from weed trimmers to snow blowers. I always use a Shell high octane fuel (92 or 93 octane) because it is the only fuel that does not contain ethanol. Ethanol is the problem with modern day fuels and will damage small engines if not used properly (stored too long or not stabilized).

Regardless of which fuel I buy, I always add fuel stabilizer as insurance for long term storage of fuel, which in today's terms may only be a moth or two.

Don't know if all of my efforts are really necessary but all I know is that I haven't damaged one of my two cycle engines yet.


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## enigma-2 (Feb 11, 2014)

All grades of gasoline comes from the same tank at the distribution center. The difference is the amount of anti-knock that mixed in it (usually at the station itself). If you are running an engine rated for CARB, use mid-grade as the ports are very small in the carb. 

For my Toro 3650, I've run 87 octane for years and never had a problem. My local Toro dealer told me to always use mid-grade in small engines. (Suppose high-test is just as good). Higher octane gas burns slower, could be why some are reporting smoother running engines & the local dealer told me to use mid-grade. He showed me several engines that he has laying around destroyed by Ethanol. One I looked at had a hole in the piston, one has warped valves. He felt mid-grade would stop this.

More importantly then octane is the use of a stabilizer such as Sta-Bil Ethanol, or Sta-Bil Marine (which costs more). This will prevent the Ethanol alcohol from separating out of solution, attracting water and turning the metal parts of the fuel system to crap.

If you can still buy gas w/o Ethanol, do so. (Around here, all gas, irregardless of grade, has Ethanol in it). If you can't, put the proper amount of Sta-Bil Ethanol (or Marine) in your gas container and then pump the gas into it (start treating it right at the pump). Gas with Ethanol can start to go bad in as little as 30 days.
Be certain to check the pump for the amount of Ethanol in it. Never, never, never use anything stronger than E-10 in any small engine. Some groups are reporting that stations are selling gas which contains greater amounts of Ethanol; with small notices posted on the pumps. E-15 will burn up a small engine fast. (too much alcohol).

In the spring, add some SeaFoam to the gas to clean out any varnish. I run mine dry. You can preserve the gas still in the blower, but it can draw water to it and some of the volatiles will evaporate over the summer and could make it a little harder to start at the start of the next season. If you do keep gas over the summer, use Sta-Bil and SeaFoam to keep it from going bad. Both in the gas should keep it good for a year. (Some say more, never tried it).

As for oil, I just purchase one gallon containers of 2-cycle oil from our local farm store. It's good enough, works fine. Has all the proper certifications and costs a lot less than the little cans of branded 2/c oil. As for grade, TWC3 oils are for 2 stroke gas engines in outboards & are ashless. TWC2 oils have a low ash content. TWC3 is better, but either will work OK. (The "W" stands for water). Don't use 2-cycle oil designed for motorcycles or chain saws.


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## Oldphil (Dec 7, 2010)

High test without matching compression and timing costs you in performance, it has never been advised by any formal body to use it in our low compression engines.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

I have always just used regular gas in all.
I do add some things to it.

I thought using high test in them was just a waste of money?
I don't think anyone uses high test around me in my neighborhood, but I will have to ask now.

I do use high test in my outboard boat engines. 
It seems like I do go further on the high test gasoline.
I never tried in my blower or lawn mowers.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

heres the thing, with high octane gas, nobody buys it because they cant justify the extra dollar. so it ends up sitting there for a few weeks, it will be just like regular gas because it has gone bad while waiting to be bought


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