# Ariens 1024 SNAFU- Now what?



## Bloodhound1941 (Feb 1, 2019)

To make a long story short we had a break in the weather so I installed my new carb. Didn't realize it but when installed the carb was at WOT. So, I shut it down took the cover off and was dumbfounded. I stepped away for a call and my good friend who we'll call "Drinkin Buddy" decided to bend the governor linkage until the carb was at the idle setting and mangled it beyond recognition. Squeezed the loop with a pair of pliers etc. Am I screwed? Do I need to replace the linkage? Why was it at WOT to begin with? Thought this would be a simple swap. I tried to return it to it's regular shape as best I could and she's back to WOT. I'm lost. 

The machine is an Ariens 1024 Pro Model#924117 Serial#002256
Engine is a Tecumseh.. Engine Model Type OHSK100 221608C (H)
Family ITPXS 3182AF
DISP 318


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## strtch5881 (Oct 6, 2018)

Are you sure that the throttle linkage under the carb isn't jammed? Does the linkage connection on top of the old carburetor look the same?
I think when it's not running it is usually at wot.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Is it possible you have a non adjustable replacement carburetor??


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## Bloodhound1941 (Feb 1, 2019)

The carb is identical to the old one and the throttle isn't stuck. I removed it and even compared the strength of the throttle return springs on both carbs and they are exactly the same. It's as if the governor moved somehow when I disconnected the linkage from the carb. The carb appears to be non adjustable with the exception of the throttle speed set screw. I'm stumped on this one.

It ran at WOT and wouldn't throttle down. As for whether or no the carb is at WOT when not running I don't know.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Yikes  Several years ago I was fiddling with the governor on my 1024 Pro, trying to minimize the RPM sag under a load. 

Loosening the governor arm on the shaft that comes out of the engine lets you re-set the governor. If I put that governor arm in the wrong position on the shaft, I got messed up governor behavior. I think one time it would have held the throttle wide open, if I'd started the engine in that condition (I realized my mistake first, fortunately). 

I have a few pictures that I took at the time, if they'd be helpful. 

Have you used the Technician's OHV handbook's governor adjustment procedure? That would help you start fresh, in case maybe something slid (like the governor arm on the shaft) during the carb changeover. 

http://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Tec...-OVRM120-OVXLC120-OVXL120-OVXL125-695244A.pdf

The procedure should walk you through it. I found it helpful to watch which direction the governor arm moves as the engine speeds up or slows down. That, plus watching how it moves the throttle plate, was helpful to me. 

Since you're replacing the carb (I was just working with the original one), it'd be worth double-checking that the movement is correct. As the engine speeds up, the governor arm should move the throttle plate in the direction that closes the throttle. 

Is the governor linkage moving smoothly? If some spring tension is way off, that might mess with how it behaves. The whole thing is kind of a delicate balancing act. 

You may need to start the engine with the electric starter, while keeping a hand on the throttle linkage. So you can watch it run, while minimizing the risk of over-speeding.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I know it's too late now but *ALWAYS* take a couple pics just to make sure of things being in their proper position, like the governor linkage is back in the same hole etc.


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## Bloodhound1941 (Feb 1, 2019)

There's only one hole on the carb for the linkage to go in and I made sure to look at it prior to removing the old carb. The linkage is moving freely. Just read the manual RedOctobyr. It says 

"With the engine stopped, loosen the screw holding the governor lever to the governor shaft clamp. Push the governor lever to move the carburetor throttle plate to the wide open position. Rotate the governor clamp counterclockwise on all overhead valve engines covered in this manual. Hold the lever and clamp in this position while tightening the screw."

If I'm reading this right then it's adjusted properly as it's keeping at at WOT with the engine stopped. Still doesn't explain why it won't throttle down. When it starts it runs at high rpm and throttles the carb down with no response. There is no response from the throttle lever at all. I'm afraid it's going to blow the motor at such high RPM. Somethings amiss and I don't have the experience to find the problem(s).

I didn't remove the linkage from the governor lever or anywhere else. Just the carb and there's only one hole on the throttle lever like I said. Dumbfounded at this point.


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## strtch5881 (Oct 6, 2018)

Is it possible that your drinkin buddy moved the governor arm? Even though there is a screw to keep it tight, it can slip with enough pressure.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

With the engine not running the governor is supposed to keep the throttle wide open, as that is the job of the governor to keep the engine at a certain RPM. With the engine not running the governor is opening the throttle to bring it up to operating RPMs, when the engine is running the centrifical force of the flyweight inside the engine connected to the governor is what pushes back on the throttle closing it to keep engine at an even RPM. I know that sounds confusing, and maybe I'm not stating it correctly but basically it sounds like if you followed the manual for setting the governor in a non-running state it is set correctly, it is just that the governor is not pushing back on the throttle when it is at full RPMs..... something is binding or bent, or possibly coincidentally the governor inside the engine somehow became damaged. 

I'm sure more experienced members will chime in here, but I believe what I have said is correct. hopefully we can get to the bottom of your issue and get you back up and running.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Is the throttle working correctly? Does the linkage move when you play with the throttle?


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Just re-read some of the post you have made, you said it is throttling down the engine but the RPMs are still staying High...
If that is the case somehow air and fuel are getting into chamber for combustion.... is it possible there is a gasket missing between the carburetor and the manifold, possibly float being stuck and forcing fuel to be sucked in while it is running.... strange problem to have with just a simple carburetor change.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Bloodhound1941 said:


> If I'm reading this right then it's adjusted properly as it's keeping at at WOT with the engine stopped. Still doesn't explain why it won't throttle down. *When it starts it runs at high rpm and throttles the carb down with no response. There is no response from the throttle lever at all.* I'm afraid it's going to blow the motor at such high RPM. Somethings amiss and I don't have the experience to find the problem(s).
> 
> I didn't remove the linkage from the governor lever or anywhere else. Just the carb and there's only one hole on the throttle lever like I said. Dumbfounded at this point.


What do you mean by the bolded part? The actual throttle-plate lever, right on the top of the carb, is not actually moving? Or do you mean you move the the main throttle-control lever (plastic handle, on the outside of the carb shroud), and the engine speed doesn't change? 

Just because the throttle is at WOT with the engine off doesn't guarantee the governor is set up correctly. As I recall, when I rotated the governor lever the wrong way on the governor shaft coming out of the engine (during the adjustment procedure), the engine would have stayed at WOT the whole time, after it started. 

With the engine off, if you push the governor arm in one direction, will it close the throttle plate? It must at least be *able* to close the throttle plate, as the governor arm moves back and forth. 

If it was me, I'd: 
- go through the governor setup again. 
- ensure that, as the engine speeds up, the governor can move the throttle closed. 
- make sure it's all still moving freely. 
- start the engine with the electric starter, and a hand already on the actual throttle-plate lever, on top of the carb. You can control the throttle plate directly, to observe what the governor and throttle are doing as it speeds up and slows down.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

With engine not running move governor arm (have throttle set at full speed) you should see movement on carburetor throttle shaft, if no movement most likely wrong spring or spring not hooked up right, if you see movement start engine and with hand throttle in fast position you should be able to slow down engine moving governor arm, you also should notice it much harder to move if governor is working while running, if you can slow engine down you have a failure of governor inside engine which will mean taking engine apart.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Usually an engine running WFO will be either an air leak between the carb and the engine.
Or a failure of the governor .
Two most common governor failures, broken connection spring or loose connection at the governor shaft.


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## Bloodhound1941 (Feb 1, 2019)

Thanks for the input everyone...

Let me elaborate and try to be a bit clearer. The machine ran fine with the old carb. Problem was a loss of power under load. I removed the bowl and it was full of debris and sediment. I bought a new carb from the dealer to ensure it was exactly the same. I unbolted the old carb, removed the governor rod from the carb throttle plate only and reversed my steps. I put a new carb to manifold gasket on and started the machine.

It ran at high rpm out of the gate with the red throttle lever at the idle position and wouldn't throttle down to idle speed. It ran at high rpm with the lever in the lowest possible setting. I tried to shut it down with the lever and it wouldn't so I pulled the red key to shut it down.

I removed the cover and saw the green wire broke off whatever it was connected to.(Still trying to figure that out).
With the machine shut down we noticed the throttle was wide open and like the novices we are we assumed something wasn't right. My buddy bent the top governor rod so the throttle lever on the carb returned to the idle position. It wouldn't start so i bent the rod back to shape as best I could and returned the top carb throttle plate to WOT with the machine off.

At no time did we adjust the governor, loosen the governor screw or remove any other rods or linkages. Never touched the governor so why would it need adjusting? I just don't get it. Even tried a spare carb to manifold gasket as I bought two. No effect at all on how it ran.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Bloodhound1941 said:


> At no time did we adjust the governor, loosen the governor screw or remove any other rods or linkages. *Never touched the governor so why would it need adjusting?* I just don't get it. Even tried a spare carb to manifold gasket as I bought two. No effect at all on how it ran.


Why would it need adjusting? Because *something* is wrong currently, and the reason isn't understood  Also, since linkages have been bent, they may be causing trouble for you. The linkage might now be pulling on the throttle plate constantly, for instance. The governor relies on a bunch of things all being correct, for it to function properly. For instance, I tried using a different hole in one of the linkages, and things didn't work right (the engine speed would keep surging up/down). 

The broken-off green wire is probably why the engine wouldn't shut down when you lowered the throttle-control lever fully. That's supposed to ground out the ignition.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

The linkage on the top of the carb has been mangled and incorrectly bent. The bend need to be more of a 45 degree bend. This will shorten the throw and allow the governor to move to slow down the engine. Here is a picture of the setup. 

Also the rod running beneath the carb needs to be hooked to the middle hole

Also there is a screw at the throttle to adjust the high speed.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

the linkage from the governor to the top of carb should be in a straight line between the two bends. You need to bend it so it is straight between the two bends.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

That linkage should look like this.


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

@russ01915, did you go outside and take a photo from your own personal machine to help this guy out? Kudos to you.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Notice the position of the governor arm in your picture and my picture. In yours the governor is allowing the engine to run wide open. The linkage doesn't allow the governor to move to a close position. In my picture, the governor is closed and is allowed to move to when under a load. By bending the linkage , it will elongate the travel allowing the governor to close when not under load. More than likely you will need a new linkage unless you get lucky.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

db130 said:


> @russ01915, did you go outside and take a photo from your own personal machine to help this guy out? Kudos to you.


No I didn't. I just happened to find a pic on the internet after much searching. LOL, it would have been easier to go outside and taken a pic if I had that machine.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

russ01915 said:


> Also the rod running beneath the carb needs to be hooked to the middle hole


FWIW, my OHSK100 also had that link in the last (bottom) hole, not the middle hole, when I bought it. Granted I was not the original owner, maybe someone made a mistake during a previous re-assembling. But when I tried that middle hole, I started getting some engine surging, so I put it back to the bottom hole. 

That doesn't guarantee that the outer hole is correct, but it seemed worth mentioning, since I have the same machine.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

I am somewhat confused myself with that. Thanks for mentioning it. I would leave that alone. The factory diagram shows the middle hole. Also by looking at his picture, the metal is very shiny around the middle hole. Now that I'm looking at that throttle linkage, it also appears to be bent. But if the machine was running correctly, I would leave it as be. Thank you for bringing that up.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

The other thing to note is that there is a small coil spring on the throttle control that couples the lever to the linkage (there is no direct connection - the lever either increases or decreases pressure on the rod coming ftom the throttle control assembly to bias the gov to vary engine speed). It sounds like that spring may have come loose or be in the wrong position, causing a loss of control . . .


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## Xilbus (Nov 30, 2018)

Not sure if this helps or not but the bottom linkage on mine is in the bottom hole also. Mine is a 1028 dle pro


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

You got the wrong replacement carburetor. The plate on the throttle shaft is different than the one that is supposed to be on it judging by the pictures. The hole for the linkage rod is on the wrong side of the throttle shaft, so it is pushing the throttle wide open instead of trying to close it when the governor activates. I see that happen many times when people replace carbs. They unknowingly get a discount carb that fits but is meant for a different application that uses a different throttle/governor linkage set up. Look at your old and new carb throttle plate located on the shaft and see where the holes are located, if they are different, you have the wrong carb. In some cases you can replace the throttle shaft with the correct shaft. The plate that the linkage is connected to is stamped fast to the shaft, but many times you just replace the whole carb with the correct unit. The linkage rod is on the wrong side of the shaft. Sometimes you can drill a new hole in the plate so it works properly, but you have to have it in the exact spot or you will have throttle control problems, and you have to be extremely careful when drilling it or you may damage the carb.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Looking at that picture again, when you close the throttle control lever it looks like you are actually opening up the throttle butterfly and when you have it set at full throttle it will want to idle down. It looks like it will work backwards from what it should. The governor will actually control the speed somewhat if it is operating and adjusted properly.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Why do you say the throttle linkage hole is on the wrong side? His first pics, and Xilbus', both seem to show the linkage hole on the far side of the throttle shaft, away from the camera. I don't currently have pics of my machine handy for another comparison. 

As an aside, if the linkage *is* on the wrong side of the throttle plate shaft, won't the governor be unable to work properly, even if the throttle-control lever could be used "backwards"? (set it to idle position, to get full speed) 

The governor itself would still be trying to correct in the wrong direction, it would keep making the situation worse, rather than fixing it. It would try to close the throttle, to reduce speed, but would actually be opening it. So then it would correct again, and make it even worse, opening the throttle further.


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## Bloodhound1941 (Feb 1, 2019)

Well the verdict is in... I received the new linkage rod from the governor to the throttle plate. I decided to put the old carb on first for shits and giggles and low and behold she ran fine with no racing or high rpms. Didn't adjust the governor or anything. I took the brand new $95.00 carb in to be checked out. Turns out the needle was stuck in the seat and the float was hung up. I assume the carbs been on the shelf many years. I went out of my way to order it straight from the Ariens dealer to avoid getting a chinese knock off. I can only assume it got stuck from sitting motionless so long. The new carb is on now and all my issues are resolved. Runs and idles great and no shortage of power cutting through the heavy stuff. I'll chalk this up as a learning experience. Oh well. Just glad to be back in business.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

If the old carb ran fine, and the new one was tooefed, why didn't you return the new one as bad? Sounds like it accomplished nothing other than lightening your wallet $95 . . .


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Cool, glad you got it working better!


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