# Simplicity Select updates



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Simplicity, (Briggs & Stratton) has made some updates to the Simplicity Select lineup as well. This line previously was called "Medium Duty".
The model that impressed me was the M1024e.
Updates include:
Power steering
16" Artic Trac tires
Taller Chute
Redesigned easy turn manual chute rotation control
9.5 Ft Lbs Snow engine
Dual lights housed in metal dash
Heated hand grips are now standard


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

If my Googling is correct, the 1024 is priced at $999, which makes it a direct competitor of the Ariens Deluxe 24. The Ariens has a taller bucket (21" vs 19.5"), larger auger and impeller (14" vs 12"), stonger engine (12 vs 9.5 ft/lbs), and visually beefier gearbox. Steering is subjective depending on if you prefer the auto-turn of the Ariens or triggers of the Simplicity. Simplicity has better lights and possibly better chute control. Looks like the Simplicity auger has a through-shaft as well, since it doesn't have additional bracing.

The Ariens should perform significantly better. The Simplicity has its strong points too, but seems a bit light on power. 


Are you sure about the heated handgrips? On the website it says NA for the 1024 and 1227.


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

bisonp said:


> If my Googling is correct, the 1024 is priced at $999, which makes it a direct competitor of the Ariens Deluxe 24. The Ariens has a taller bucket (21" vs 19.5"), larger auger and impeller (14" vs 12"), stonger engine (12 vs 9.5 ft/lbs), and visually beefier gearbox. Steering is subjective depending on if you prefer the auto-turn of the Ariens or triggers of the Simplicity. Simplicity has better lights and possibly better chute control. Looks like the Simplicity auger has a through-shaft as well, since it doesn't have additional bracing.
> 
> The Ariens should perform significantly better. The Simplicity has its strong points too, but seems a bit light on power.
> 
> ...


Yep, I'm sure about the heated handgrips because I bought one. The Ariens is a nice machine but I don't have an Ariens dealer that I like. I also dislike the Ariens chute rotation and lighting. IMHO for my situation the 12" auger and impeller will be fine since it was fine on my old 2 stage. If bigger augers and impellers were absolutely necessary for higher performance then Ariens would offer 16" augers and impellers also. Same with power. I had an 8.0 ft/lbs machine that worked just fine, matter of fact it was way more than adequate, now I have even more power. I also need to clean the yard for the dogs and to have access to my utility trailer. I'm not convinced that Autoturn would work good in the yard.


----------



## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

Ariens does offer a 16" auger on the Pro models (impeller stays at 14" but with a slightly higher RPM than other models). The bigger auger / impeller and more powerful engine won't increase the max depth of snow you can go through or anything, but they'll move more volume of snow per amount of time, meaning you get to walk faster in deep snow. Depending on the space you need to clear, how important time is and how often you get deep snow, the time saved may or may not matter (especially factoring in a more expensive machine to move the snow faster).


----------



## z28lt1 (Oct 18, 2018)

It really looks like a well designed/usable machine with the controls, lights, and such. Good luck Zavie with the new machine!


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

Zavie said:


> Yep, I'm sure about the heated handgrips because I bought one. The Ariens is a nice machine but I don't have an Ariens dealer that I like. I also dislike the Ariens chute rotation and lighting. IMHO for my situation the 12" auger and impeller will be fine since it was fine on my old 2 stage. If bigger augers and impellers were absolutely necessary for higher performance then Ariens would offer 16" augers and impellers also. Same with power. I had an 8.0 ft/lbs machine that worked just fine, matter of fact it was way more than adequate, now I have even more power. I also need to clean the yard for the dogs and to have access to my utility trailer. I'm not convinced that Autoturn would work good in the yard.



Thanks for verifying the handgrips, that helps the value for sure.


The current Ariens Deluxe chute control rotation mechanism looks a lot like the mechanism on mine, though mine is a crank style instead of auger. I have to adjust the tension so often I carry a wrench in my coat pocket all winter. Very annoying and something I also really don't like with Ariens. 



Still though, that Select engine would seem to be the equivalent of 6.5-7 HP. It will interesting to see how it performs compared to its competitors that have larger engines but may not be as well built otherwise.


----------



## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

bisonp fix the issues its not something that you should need a wrench in your pocket
I have the same setup
its always worked perfect i adjusted it 1 time when i got the machine

never freezes always works nothing to break


its not 6.5 hp to 7 hp its 6 hp on its best day the model number should be 624e shame on simplicity
neither the ariens nor the simplicity is worth a 1k imo
better off used
enjoy your machine zvie


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Just for anyone else reading who was looking for some additional context about the engine: the Simplicity lists a 208cc engine. Describing it as 9.5 ft-lb wasn't helping me, as I don't have a sense of the torque from different displacements. 

The Ariens Deluxe 24 is 254cc.


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Briggs & Stratton makes two snow engines both of which are 208cc.
One is 8.0 Ft/lbs and one is 9.5 Ft/lbs.

@1132 the HP figures Simplicity states are very accurate. When you personally are a company that has been in business for over 110 years you can quote me HP figures, until then all you have is misinformation.

The main reason I don't buy Ariens:
Every legitimate dealer in my area who caters to professionals and residential customers tells me independently that the reason they just carry one Ariens on their sales floor is so they can service them. Why don't they carry the full line? They can't trust their engines, plain and simple.


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

Zavie said:


> Briggs & Stratton makes two snow engines both of which are 208cc.
> One is 8.0 Ft/lbs and one is 9.5 Ft/lbs.
> 
> @1132 the HP figures Simplicity states are very accurate. When you personally are a company that has been in business for over 110 years you can quote me HP figures, until then all you have is misinformation.
> ...


 Simplicity rates torque. Not HP. That is not a 9.5 HP engine. It's 9.5 ft/lbs. Which will equate to somewhere under 7 HP. 



I've read a lot about the LCT engines here and elsewhere, but I haven't come across any significant problem areas. People seem to be happy with them, other than being from China and having small fuel tanks. What issues are the dealers claiming they see?


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

bisonp said:


> Simplicity rates torque. Not HP. That is not a 9.5 HP engine. It's 9.5 ft/lbs. Which will equate to somewhere under 7 HP.
> 
> 
> 
> I've read a lot about the LCT engines here and elsewhere, but I haven't come across any significant problem areas. People seem to be happy with them, other than being from China and having small fuel tanks. What issues are the dealers claiming they see?


They don't talk about specifics, but the lack of Ariens inventory on their sales floor speaks volumes.
Can anyone tell me how long the Ariens AX snow engine has been in production?

From the Briggs and Stratton site:

Engine Power Rating Information
The gross power rating for individual gasoline engine models is labeled in accordance with SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) code J1940 Small Engine Power & Torque Rating Procedure, and is rated in accordance with SAE J1995.

Torque values:
Are stated gross torque at 2600 RPM per SAE J1940 as rated by Briggs & Stratton

Horsepower values:
Are stated gross horsepower at 3600 RPM per SAE J1940 as rated by Briggs & Stratton.

Net Power and Gross Power
Net power values are taken with exhaust and air cleaner installed whereas gross power values are collected without these attachments. Actual gross engine power will be higher than net engine power and is affected by, among other things, ambient operating conditions and engine to-engine variability. Given the wide array of products on which engines are placed, the gasoline engine may not develop the rated gross power when used in a given piece of power equipment. This difference is due to a variety of factors including, but not limited to, the variety of engine components (air cleaner, exhaust, charging, cooling, carburetor, fuel pump, etc.), application limitations, ambient operating conditions (temperature, humidity, altitude), and engine-to-engine variability. Due to manufacturing and capacity limitations, Briggs & Stratton may substitute an engine of higher rated power for this engine.


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

I don't know when the AX series came out. Or when this B&S engine came out. I'd imagine around the same time.

They rate that engine in ft/lbs, which is torque. They do not list horsepower. I checked the B&S website on that engine and they don't list horsepower there either.  

Read this for more info on torque vs horsepower and look at the conversion estimates: https://movingsnow.com/2008/cc-to-torque-to-hp-conversion-update/


I'm not saying that engine isn't adequate or can't do the job. But it is almost certainly less than 7HP, which is a different performance category than its main competitors in that price range.


----------



## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

B&S doesn't publish HP, but they publish a torque vs RPM chart. That allows HP to be calculated (although we can only calculate HP at 3600 RPM, not peak HP, as the chart ends at 3600 and it's possible that peak HP is slightly past 3600). LCT doesn't publish a chart, so the best we can do is guess. As an example, the 420cc / 21 ft-lb Briggs makes 19.8 ft-lbs at 3600 RPM, meaning 13.5 hp. Based on the shape of the curve, that's likely pretty close to peak. It might see 13.6 or so at 3700 - 3800 RPM as the true peak and then fall off after that. 

IIRC, Ariens started the AX engine (with the Gen 2 LCT engines) around 2009 - 2010 and then later switched to the Gen 3 LCT engines.


----------



## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Zavie said:


> Briggs & Stratton makes two snow engines both of which are 208cc.
> One is 8.0 Ft/lbs and one is 9.5 Ft/lbs.
> 
> @1132 the HP figures Simplicity states are very accurate. When you personally are a company that has been in business for over 110 years you can quote me HP figures, until then all you have is misinformation.
> ...



mr zav even it has 9 ft @ 3600 which it doesnt

9x3600=32400 div by 5252 = 6.169 hp and thats gross hp not net and thats if your rpms are set to 3600 which most machines come set low

that formula is not debatable its a fact


i did say enjoy your machine did i not


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

rslifkin said:


> B&S doesn't publish HP, but they publish a torque vs RPM chart. That allows HP to be calculated (although we can only calculate HP at 3600 RPM, not peak HP, as the chart ends at 3600 and it's possible that peak HP is slightly past 3600). LCT doesn't publish a chart, so the best we can do is guess. As an example, the 420cc / 21 ft-lb Briggs makes 19.8 ft-lbs at 3600 RPM, meaning 13.5 hp. Based on the shape of the curve, that's likely pretty close to peak. It might see 13.6 or so at 3700 - 3800 RPM as the true peak and then fall off after that.
> 
> IIRC, Ariens started the AX engine (with the Gen 2 LCT engines) around 2009 - 2010 and then later switched to the Gen 3 LCT engines.


Thanks for a good representation of the facts.

My point again is that:
The snow engine with 8.0 Ft./Lbs on my old 24" more than met my needs. My new snow engine with 9.5 Ft./ Lbs on my current 24" should meet or exceed my current-future needs. Is there any reason that that does not seem logical?
I'd probably be happy with my old B&S 8.0 Ft./Lbs on my current new blower, LOL
At some point enough Hp is enough and you then shop for features and dealer reputation. That's what I have done and I'm very happy with my choice. I'd rather buy from an excellent servicing dealer than a big box store or a dealer that does offer a certain brand full line but they are jerks, (who I feel are also dishonest), and could care less about customer service.


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

rslifkin said:


> B&S doesn't publish HP, but they publish a torque vs RPM chart. That allows HP to be calculated (although we can only calculate HP at 3600 RPM, not peak HP, as the chart ends at 3600 and it's possible that peak HP is slightly past 3600). LCT doesn't publish a chart, so the best we can do is guess. As an example, the 420cc / 21 ft-lb Briggs makes 19.8 ft-lbs at 3600 RPM, meaning 13.5 hp. Based on the shape of the curve, that's likely pretty close to peak. It might see 13.6 or so at 3700 - 3800 RPM as the true peak and then fall off after that.
> 
> IIRC, Ariens started the AX engine (with the Gen 2 LCT engines) around 2009 - 2010 and then later switched to the Gen 3 LCT engines.



Not sure if I'm doing it right, but according to the torque curve chart for that engine, I get about 9.5 ft/pounds at 3600 RPM, which is about 6.5 HP.



https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...ines/snow-blower-engines/950-snow-series.html



http://bsintek.basco.com/BriggsDocumentDisplay/mjrtuPqb733wQ9vcv4.pdf


----------



## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

bisonp said:


> Not sure if I'm doing it right, but according to the torque curve chart for that engine, I get about 9.5 ft/pounds at 3600 RPM, which is about 6.5 HP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


bis it is not 9.5 @3600 peak tor is either 2600 or 3050 rpm it falls from there
even if its 9.5 @3600 is still 6.1 gross hp

that power curve they show there is a joke as hp is not on it that is not legit

they are intersecting graph
anybody could draw that line anyplace they want

all that says is you have 9.5 ft lbs of torq have a nice day


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Lol


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

1132le said:


> bis it is not 9.5 @3600 peak tor is either 2600 or 3050 rpm it falls from there
> even if its 9.5 @3600 is still 6.1 gross hp
> 
> that power curve they show there is a joke as hp is not on it that is not legit
> ...


What are you disagreeing with? You're saying the graph is lying? To say anyone could draw the line however they want is true, of course, but at some point we kinda have to believe *some* info from the manufacturer. Otherwise we have to start double-checking actual displacement, dyno'ing engines ourselves to get torque ratings, etc. 

It doesn't matter than the curve didn't show a HP line, that doesn't make it a joke (now, to call it a *power* curve *would* be a joke, as it's showing torque, but that's said in jest, I know that's not what you meant). As you well know, with one, you can calculate the other, so it doesn't seem like that really matters if only torque is shown. 

I'd propose you can either believe the graph, or not. If you believe it, it says he has 9.5 ft-lb (gross) and about 6.5 hp, depending on how you read it, and what RPM you want to use for the power rating. But if you don't believe it (or corresponding info from the manufacturer), then we can't even comfortably say he has 9.5 ft-lb. 

Zavie, to your point, I'm on board. If you were happy with a lower-output engine, and you're moving to a higher-output engine, with the same clearing width, that should make you a happy user! Enjoy the new machine!


----------



## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

Keep in mind, Briggs rates torque at 2600, not peak torque. The graph shows the real peak is more like 9.8 ft-lbs, closer to 3000 RPM.


----------



## z28lt1 (Oct 18, 2018)

Zavie is happy with the motor, which is all that matters. For reference, I've attempted to plot the HP curve with the TQ curve, although it isn't "exact" should be pretty close.


EDIT: Should add that obviously the units on the graph between HP and Torque don't mix, but I left the units off so we can still use the numbers/scale.


----------



## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> What are you disagreeing with? You're saying the graph is lying? To say anyone could draw the line however they want is true, of course, but at some point we kinda have to believe *some* info from the manufacturer. Otherwise we have to start double-checking actual displacement, dyno'ing engines ourselves to get torque ratings, etc.
> 
> It doesn't matter than the curve didn't show a HP line, that doesn't make it a joke (now, to call it a *power* curve *would* be a joke, as it's showing torque, but that's said in jest, I know that's not what you meant). As you well know, with one, you can calculate the other, so it doesn't seem like that really matters if only torque is shown.
> 
> ...



Trust them why bs they lied for years
it says down below torq peaks at 2600 or 3050 it needs to have 9 ft lbs at 3600 to make 6.16 GROSS HP RED do you relly think it does?????
That line red still shows the same reading at 3400 as it does at 3000 rpm its called PEAK TORQ after it goes lower not flatlines
race engines dont even get a linear torq curve cmon folks

if its not a hp/ torq curve its just a represation sheesh
208 cc 9.5 ft lbs has 5.5 net hp on its best day installed on a blower 

how did they pick up 1.5 ft lbs 1 is rated 8 ft lbs 1 is 9.5 carbs and cams?? more bs they woudnt do it would kill profits its the same motor



It says nothing about 6.5 hp anyplace
They shoudnt be calling it a1024e 624e thats enough of a reason to think they are full of it everyone alwsys thinks the 1 st 2 numbers are hp
toro 1428 is just as bad its 12 hp toro 10 series arnt 10hp either


----------



## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

Shape of the curve will vary a lot depending on how well the engine breathes, how it's cammed, etc. Some will have a shallow curve, others will have a much sharper peak. As an example, I found the curves at one point for the old Tecumseh OHV engines. 9hp and 11hp are both 318cc, but have very different looking curves. The 9hp is the shallow curve of a milder cammed engine, etc. The 11hp has peak torque at a higher RPM and a much steeper, more peaky curve, indicating a more aggressive cam, etc. to get the extra power. 

Making 2 engines of different power levels with the same block and internals is perfectly logical. They'll have different shaped power curves as a result, but it saves money, as it's less different parts for the manufacturer to make / stock. Tecumseh did it for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if others have tried it at some point. 

And yes, usable HP as installed on the blower will be lower than gross HP. But if they're all rated in gross torque / HP, it's still valid for knowing which engine makes more power (even though it doesn't tell you the absolute amount of usable power).


----------



## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

rslifkin said:


> Shape of the curve will vary a lot depending on how well the engine breathes, how it's cammed, etc. Some will have a shallow curve, others will have a much sharper peak. As an example, I found the curves at one point for the old Tecumseh OHV engines. 9hp and 11hp are both 318cc, but have very different looking curves. The 9hp is the shallow curve of a milder cammed engine, etc. The 11hp has peak torque at a higher RPM and a much steeper, more peaky curve, indicating a more aggressive cam, etc. to get the extra power.
> 
> Making 2 engines of different power levels with the same block and internals is perfectly logical. They'll have different shaped power curves as a result, but it saves money, as it's less different parts for the manufacturer to make / stock. Tecumseh did it for years, so I wouldn't be surprised if others have tried it at some point.
> 
> And yes, usable HP as installed on the blower will be lower than gross HP. But if they're all rated in gross torque / HP, it's still valid for knowing which engine makes more power (even though it doesn't tell you the absolute amount of usable power).



those motors have all the same part numbers cams carbs its been proved by the engines being taken apart 

thats why the gov made them go to torq figures as they were bsing there way on machines
there are 2 flatty tecs 318cc and 358cc they are also all the same and been proven
same cams same carbs within the 318cc 8 and 9 hp rating and also the 358 cc 10 hp and 11 hp rating
[email protected] cam its all bs same cams

the 208 with 8ft lbs is at 2600 the 9.5 is at 3050 its the same engine
how many people bother with such specs 1/2 of 1% joe homeowner gets a 9.5 ft lb engine and call its 9.5 hp
its a snowblower buy the 20 ft lbs engine and dont worry about power
they shoudnt make a 2 stage with less then 300cc motor unless you live in virgina or get 12 inches a yr

the 318cc 12.75 ft lbs tec engine was the go to size in the 70s and 80s
they were under powered then the 358 cc 15.5 ft lbs was the good engine back then
blowers today should have 15 ft lbs of torq as a benchmark

they build 208 254 262 and 275 cc to capture the joe homeowner lowes crowd and still make money
they are not race engines its a snow blower


all else being equal the largest cc has the most torque its that simple
they dont give a flip about joe homeowner needs a high lift cam for extra power its silly its a snowblower they operate in a very small rpm range
all the old blowers were to be at 3600 hi lift cams agressive ramps etc etc all it does is move peak torq higher yet they all still ran at 3600 its just bs
most on here wont even set there flattys to 3600 afraid it will blow up lol

honda has shown over over again that high impeller speeds and a tight drum are much more important hence they throw so much better with a smaller impeller and less hp then ariens with the 358cc ohv fake 13 hp rating that was 11 on its best day i owned a few with impeller kit getting out thrown by a 270cc honda 928
ITS A SNOWBLOWER sheesh
most machine come set lower then the rpm figures they give for power as well another reason to get a bigger engine
but we should trust the makers and they cant set the engine up right but they have hi lift cams lol


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

You guys can go on and on about HP but I have more wants than just HP.
Good steering in my yard over uneven terrain.
Excellent lighting for use in areas that have no lighting, which I'm often doing.
Easy to use chute controls.
Reliable long lasting engine.
Yes Ariens does offer higher HP snow engines at certain price points I will give you that. At what I paid for my unit, the Ariens with handwarmers was hundreds $$ more for what I feel was a few extra hp I don't need and has an engine from a company without 110 years of engine building experience and excellence.

Yah yah and rah rah all you want about HP.......


----------



## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

1132le said:


> those motors have all the same part numbers cams carbs its been proved by the engines being taken apart



I will let you in on a big secret. B&S has for years now used restrictor plates to detune identical engines. Those You Tube folks you are probably referring to taking apart the engines if worth their salt should know what that funny looking plates' purpose was.:smile2:


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Honestly that sounds like the best case scenario. Then people who want to could remove the plate, and gain some performance, easily.


----------



## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

1132le - What you're missing is this: The numbers we have to compare might not be perfect numbers, but they're the best thing we've got. And if all of them are at least on a level playing field, it's still a valid comparison. Until the day someone builds a snowblower dyno (to see hp available at auger, hp at impeller and hp at wheels), we'll never really know how much power we have (and how much is being lost to belt drives, gearboxes, transmissions, etc.)


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

Zavie said:


> You guys can go on and on about HP but I have more wants than just HP.
> Good steering in my yard over uneven terrain.
> Excellent lighting for use in areas that have no lighting, which I'm often doing.
> Easy to use chute controls.
> ...



Calling extra power useless and the AX motors junk isn't really helping your argument. I just haven't heard that the B&S OHV engines are better and they are much less common than they used to be. I don't believe either of them have been around very long. To clarify the 24 Deluxe with handwarmers added would be about $100 more, while the Toro 826 would be about the same price but lacks steering. Both have significantly more power but as I said the Select has some strong advantages too. There's no need to get defensive. I'm just putting out information I feel would be helpful for anybody looking in this price range. The Select appears to be a solid choice if it has enough power to meet your needs. 


Modern chute controls are a pet peeve of mine and as mentioned before I agree that Ariens aren't very good. Old blowers had 220 degrees of rotation and the deflector went low enough to put snow right beside you. Today's blowers only have 200 degrees of rotation and deflectors rarely go below level, putting the snow several feet away from you. Toro has the best controls by a mile in my opinion but I don't like that they moved production to Mexico.


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

You are correct bisnop and I edited my post about the engines. My pricing difference between the Ariens and the Simplicity after rebate was almost $200. MSRP is just that, MSRP. Real time, closing the deal handshake pricing can vary from dealer to dealer so you have to make your best deal in your own town. With the Ariens I'd gain some HP which I'm sure would translate into faster EOD moving in the end. I'm willing to take smaller buckets of EOD if I need too, to gain the features that are important to me like easy chute controls, better lighting, and trigger steering. I love Toro products and the 826 is sweet, it does have the 26" bucket so it does need a bit more HP than the 24's. If Toro offered a 24" with trigger steering and handwarmers that was not as expensive as the $1699 HD1028 maybe i'd have gone that route. I hope Toro will offer some HD Powermax models with the metal chutes in a smaller size than 28" they would be awesome.


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

If you paid that much less, it's pretty hard to fault that machine for anything. Enjoy, and be sure to update us on how it performs!


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

bisonp said:


> If you paid that much less, it's pretty hard to fault that machine for anything. Enjoy, and be sure to update us on how it performs!


Thanks bisonp. My purchase came about when my in-laws neighbor wanted a blower. He came from a condo in town and definitely needed a 2 stage. Me being the snowblower nut that I am went looking for something else. I was going to wait a while
before actually buying another 2 stage but when this situation fell into my lap, wow!
One of the nicest features I also like is the throttle control. My old blower didn't have one and there are times it's nice to throttle down to move something in the yard or clean off a car in the drive without shutting off the engine. Do I think that I bought the ultimate blower?? LOL heck no. Best of luck with whatever you choose. The Ariens guys love theirs and who knows maybe one day my next upgrade will be an Ariens!


----------



## chuck95 (Dec 25, 2018)

bisonp said:


> If my Googling is correct, the 1024 is priced at $999, which makes it a direct competitor of the Ariens Deluxe 24. The Ariens has a taller bucket (21" vs 19.5"), larger auger and impeller (14" vs 12"), stonger engine (12 vs 9.5 ft/lbs), and visually beefier gearbox. Steering is subjective depending on if you prefer the auto-turn of the Ariens or triggers of the Simplicity. Simplicity has better lights and possibly better chute control. Looks like the Simplicity auger has a through-shaft as well, since it doesn't have additional bracing.
> 
> The Ariens should perform significantly better. The Simplicity has its strong points too, but seems a bit light on power.
> 
> ...



I'm seeing the 2019 model Simplicity 1024 priced at $899 most places, including my dealer. Thinking about going for it tomorrow, the last day I'll be able to before the $50 rebate period ends. *So it'll end up costing $849*. What does everyone think about it at that price? 

My driveway is one car wide for about 2 car lengths and 2 cars wide at the top. So basically the size of 4 cars, but it's a bit of a hill - about a 20% grade. Do you think this would propel itself up the hill OK? I was originally thinking about the Ariens Compact, but really wanted the power steering for my wife. And with the Ariens, one wheel has to be disengaged for easy turning, leaving only one wheel for driving. 

I'm in the Hudson Valley region of NY, so we normally get about 4-12 inches at a time. Rarely more than say 16". So I guess I don't need a monster machine. Just wondering if this is enough. 

Thanks for any opinions anyone can give before tomorrow morning!


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Why does every thread turn into "you should have bought an Ariens"? For the love of god.


Hey Zavie, congrats on purchasing a nice machine. There is nothing wrong with the Simplicity. I bought one. 



As far as the HP, from what I understand, and I may have heard an "urban legend", some idiot in a high altitude sued all the manufacturers of engines, forcing them to rate engines in torque, not HP. You know when you go up in altitude, you lose HP. So the advertised HP numbers taken at sea level were not what they were advertised in higher altitudes, so this clown sued and changed the industry to advertised torque. Like I said, fact or urban legend? IDK, just what was told to me.



As far as the torque curve goes, what you want is a "tractor" style torque curve, long and flat without peaks. For this application it's where you want to be. Don't go by the highest peak number, go by the number across the graph. 



Best of luck with the machine, hope to hear the reviews soon. Don't worry about people telling you what you SHOULD have done or why what you did is wrong. Just enjoy it.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

chuck95 said:


> I'm seeing the 2019 model Simplicity 1024 priced at $899 most places, including my dealer. Thinking about going for it tomorrow, the last day I'll be able to before the $50 rebate period ends. *So it'll end up costing $849*. What does everyone think about it at that price?
> 
> My driveway is one car wide for about 2 car lengths and 2 cars wide at the top. So basically the size of 4 cars, but it's a bit of a hill - about a 20% grade. Do you think this would propel itself up the hill OK? I was originally thinking about the Ariens Compact, but really wanted the power steering for my wife. And with the Ariens, one wheel has to be disengaged for easy turning, leaving only one wheel for driving.
> 
> ...



I think that's a very fair price for the quality machine you'll get.


----------



## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I think it will be fine though at 212cc it may be a little underpowered for a 24". I'd be more comfortable in the 250cc area but it will do.


----------



## chuck95 (Dec 25, 2018)

Thanks. I'm upgrading from something like this, so I'm expecting a big improvement! I hope I won't be disappointed if I get a really big storm.

https://www.pawnamerica.com/snow-blowers/956291-lawn.html


----------



## chuck95 (Dec 25, 2018)

JLawrence08648 said:


> I think it will be fine though at 212cc it may be a little underpowered for a 24". I'd be more comfortable in the 250cc area but it will do.


Hmm, then there's the Ariens Deluxe 24 for $999. Is it worth the extra $150 for another 42cc?


----------



## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I don't know the particulars of new machines, maybe there are some other differences between the two, but $150 for the extra 42cc is worth it. That is a big difference in power. Generally when you move up from 212 to 254 you are getting an entirely different engine, block, not the same block bored larger. You may also get different throttle controls, a fuel shut off valve. The 254cc on a 24" width is very nice, it won't bog down and you won't regret spending the money.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Can't we just let the guy enjoy his purchase and stop telling him what an idiot he is for not buying an Ariens? C'mon guys..really.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

chuck95 said:


> Thanks. I'm upgrading from something like this, so I'm expecting a big improvement! I hope I won't be disappointed if I get a really big storm.
> 
> https://www.pawnamerica.com/snow-blowers/956291-lawn.html





I don't think you'll be disappointed.


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

jsup said:


> Can't we just let the guy enjoy his purchase and stop telling him what an idiot he is for not buying an Ariens? C'mon guys..really.


A poster looking to buy asked if the Ariens would be worth the extra cost. A reasonable question and a reasonable response. Not sure what you are reading.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

bisonp said:


> A poster looking to buy asked if the Ariens would be worth the extra cost. A reasonable question and a reasonable response. Not sure what you are reading.



I went back and re-read the first post, nowhere did I see him ask anything about Ariens. He was outlining the new updates to a Simplicity model lineup. In the second post you chimed in with the Ariens sales pitch with "but an Ariens costs this" and Ariens does that. 



Nothing personal, but I think that is unnecessary. Nobody asked about Ariens, so I didn't understand what you were talking about, or why you felt compelled to put that information in play. Why even introduce another brand? Any brand, into the conversation that has nothing to do with a comparison? Especially in a section of the forum dedicated to Simplicity?


After that the comparison continues with the size of the impeller and so forth. Given the original post, and title of the thread, I'm not sure why this happened, but it seems to happen alot. That's all I'm sayin'. 



I hope this helps clear up what I was saying. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify.



Anyway....


----------



## chuck95 (Dec 25, 2018)

Thanks all for your opinions. I ended up getting the Simplicity 1024. Looks like a solid machine, and I expect it'll keep me from having a heart attack on the driveway!


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

jsup said:


> Can't we just let the guy enjoy his purchase and stop telling him what an idiot he is for not buying an Ariens? C'mon guys..really.


LOL, could not agree with you more. First of all any talk about more or less CC's or HP is completely useless. Unless the power from the engine is transmitted exactly the same between different machines to the impeller and auger, (no it never is) than any spouting about "this much will give you this" is just clueless bantering. IMO Ariens controls, lighting and steering are second rate and no amount of HP will overcome that for me. The only Ariens I'd consider is the Pro series, other than that the rest of the lineup is unusable for my needs.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Zavie said:


> LOL, could not agree with you more. First of all any talk about more or less CC's or HP is completely useless. Unless the power from the engine is transmitted exactly the same between different machines to the impeller and auger, (no it never is) than any spouting about "this much will give you this" is just clueless bantering. IMO Ariens controls, lighting and steering are second rate and no amount of HP will overcome that for me. The only Ariens I'd consider is the Pro series, other than that the rest of the lineup is unusable for my needs.



Well, that isn't going to win you any friends. How about that 19 inch vs. 21 inch auger housing, that's a considerable consideration. For me, I know there must have been exactly 0 times where that had become a critical factor. They're just taking the differences in the machines, and rationalizing why the Areins is significantly better based on them. I think the term is Cognitive Dissonance. 



These are all very nice people, all willing to help out and do their best to help you. I'm confident it's not done with malice. In fact, I'd say just the opposite, it's done in the absence of malice, and an attempt to really help you do the "right thing". They truly believe what they are saying. However, in their zeal to help, they are missing the fact that their over compensating "help" works against their opinion. Like any zealot, religious, political, product, at some point it takes the reader/listener to the point of saying ENOUGH ALREADY I GET IT!!! 



Anyway, good luck with your new machine I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on it once you use it a few times.


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

jsup said:


> I went back and re-read the first post, nowhere did I see him ask anything about Ariens. He was outlining the new updates to a Simplicity model lineup. In the second post you chimed in with the Ariens sales pitch with "but an Ariens costs this" and Ariens does that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So you were still complaining about the original discussion? I thought it was pretty clear the thread had moved on from that. You scolded us after the thread was resurrected by chuck95 asking for opinions, then again after he asked another question. 



Regardless, there's nothing wrong with discussing the pros and cons of each machine. I thought that's what this forum was all about. People who are looking for a bunch of nodding heads should probably stick to the manufacturer's marketing material, because that's all the original post included. If you think the points of comparison I brought up are unfair, I'd love to discuss them, because that's more helpful to everyone than sarcastically dismissing them as a "sales pitch". 


Back on topic, at $850 I think the Simplicity should be a good buy. And Zavie, any updates on how it performs?


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

bisonp said:


> So you were still complaining about the original discussion? I thought it was pretty clear the thread had moved on from that. You scolded us after the thread was resurrected by chuck95 asking for opinions, then again after he asked another question.



No, I'm not complaining. I'm just curious that why in a thread titled "Simplicity Select Updates" that the very next post, the second post, is an advertisement for Ariens. I am confused of what would compel someone to do that, rather than discuss the updates listed, which was the original topic. Just seems kinda odd is all, and distracts from discussion. I find that this happens a lot on forums and is typical based in massive insecurity, but I'm no psychiatrist. 



I deeply apologize if you felt I scolded you or anyone else, that wasn't my intention. As I stated, there's a lot of nice people here willing to help, and I appreciate that. My intent was not to scold anyone. All I was saying is when someone shows up with a new toy, you don't kick them in the nuts and say "you should have done this". That's low class. HEY LOOK AT MY NEW MUSTANG..... That's nice, here's 1000 reasons why a Camaro is better. See where I'm going with this? Can't we just be happy for the guy and wish him good luck? Like I said, I find it odd when someone does that, it's just foreign to me. 





> Regardless, there's nothing wrong with discussing the pros and cons of each machine. I thought that's what this forum was all about. People who are looking for a bunch of nodding heads should probably stick to the manufacturer's marketing material, because that's all the original post included. If you think the points of comparison I brought up are unfair, I'd love to discuss them, because that's more helpful to everyone than sarcastically dismissing them as a "sales pitch".



It is a sales pitch. When you're telling someone who made a purchase all the reasons they could have chosen better, in your opinion, that's a sales pitch, advertisement, promotion. 



You made another brilliant point, I totally agree. Well, nodding heads is what you get when Ariens is bought up, as you did, and exactly what happened in this thread. I do agree with you on that point. We should be able to discuss all kinds of machines here, pros and cons, without having to introduce Ariens, and why they are better, into every discussion. The fact that you may believe it's the gold standard, doesn't make it true. The discussions should be on the merits and intent of the original post. We agree on far more than you think. 


If you note, Zavie, the originator of this thread, agrees with what I said. He wanted to discuss these updates, good, bad or indifferent, and it turned into an Ariens commercial. Just sayin'. Ask any disinterested third party to read the thread in that light, and see if they come to the conclusion. I bet they do.


----------



## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

jsup said:


> No, I'm not complaining. I'm just curious that why in a thread titled "Simplicity Select Updates" that the very next post, the second post, is an advertisement for Ariens. I am confused of what would compel someone to do that, rather than discuss the updates listed, which was the original topic. Just seems kinda odd is all, and distracts from discussion. I find that this happens a lot on forums and is typical based in massive insecurity, but I'm no psychiatrist.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Forgive me if it seems I have an attitude but you are essentially putting words in my mouth and trying to fit my intentions to a narrative you have already predetermined. But no worries, nothing personal I just tend to be blunt and that's the way I see it.

When I brought up Ariens, the OP had not purchased anything. He stated the specs, so I brought up the main competitor at that price point. I didn't tell him what to buy or what he should have bought. I don't believe Ariens is perfect, but they are the "premium" market leader so most people are going to compare them. I thought I was pretty clear about their shortcomings. And after he bought it and said what he paid for it, I agreed it was probably a good decision. I just wanted to clear the air and since we are off topic here I won't respond further on this tangent.

Anyway, no hard feelings, and Happy New Year!

And PS, Zavie, please post updates as you use it to let us know how it performs.


----------



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Whatever helps you sleep at night, rationalize all you want. I just call it as I see it. The posts are here, if anyone wants to read them, they can determine what the case really is. Let me ask you this, in the original post, if Simplicity was replaced with Ariens you think the thread would have gone that way? It would have been a "head nodding" exercise and love fest for Ariens, just like it turned into anyway.


I'll just point out Zavie is hitting likes and thanks on my posts, he's the guy who started the thread and knew what he was looking for. At every turn, he had to address the "why Ariens is better" posts with logic and decorum. He did a great job, and it still didn't relent. What I take away from this thread, he bought a Simplicity, and that was stupid, he should have bought an Airens. As I think was the intent when Ariens was introduced. Despite the obligatory platitudes of congratulations.


I think this thread has run its course, and it's a shame it went the way it did. I point it out, hopefully to avoid it in the future. Thank you for your posts, I appreciate the banter.


----------



## Elfiero (Apr 9, 2019)

I'm afraid I have to chime in here. Why is the ENTIRE snowblower forum so pro Ariens and so negative about anything else? YES ariens are good snowblowers, NO they are not the best or even the only good one. I'm sure I will get chastised for pointing this out, but I had to say something.


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

A lot has changed since this thread started. I was true to my word when I said the only Ariens I'd buy is a Pro. I bought one, lol.
Ariens does have it's following here but I think Toro has made quite a few more inroads into Ariens territory. The new TRX commercial lineup is impressive plus the updates and new models throughout their entire snowblower lineup are impressive.


----------



## Massquatch (Dec 16, 2020)

Picked up the 1024E 2 years ago and this forum is going to come in very handy! Before we bought our snow blower, I had never even touched one before, so I know very little about them.


----------



## Massquatch (Dec 16, 2020)

Elfiero said:


> I'm afraid I have to chime in here. Why is the ENTIRE snowblower forum so pro Ariens and so negative about anything else? YES ariens are good snowblowers, NO they are not the best or even the only good one. I'm sure I will get chastised for pointing this out, but I had to say something.


2 years ago, when we were in the market for our first snowblower, we called a local guy that services snowblowers, lawnmowers etc. We asked what would be a good snowblower. He recommended Simplicity because he said that those were the brand that he saw the least in his shop for repairs and that Toro and Ariens were the ones he saw the most. Your mileage may vary of course.


----------



## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I am sure a Simplicity is a fine machine, as any machine is only as good as the operator and how they treat their equipment, but the reason that repair guy sees Ariens and Toro's is because there is probably a 500 to 1 ratio, and the Ariens and Toro's last so long, that wear items wear out ... Just sayin ...  My current 2 Ariens are like almost 60 years old ... of course thats when machines were heavy grade steel and cast iron.....


----------



## Massquatch (Dec 16, 2020)

oneacer said:


> I am sure a Simplicity is a fine machine, as any machine is only as good as the operator and how they treat their equipment, but the reason that repair guy sees Ariens and Toro's is because there is probably a 500 to 1 ratio, and the Ariens and Toro's last so long, that wear items wear out ... Just sayin ...  My current 2 Ariens are like almost 60 years old ... of course thats when machines were heavy grade steel and cast iron.....


That could certainly be the case. I had actually never heard of Simplicity before this fella recommended it. And yes, they sure did build things better years ago.


----------

