# My Toro 524 is loosing power and keeps overheating, may have seized up



## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Was using my 1979 Toro 524 today and noticed it was loosing power while going through very little snow. I continued to clear the driveway and as I was finishing up noticed the motor was VERY hot (overheating) and finally it quit running and then I could no longer pull the start cord. 
It has plenty of oil in it. Any suggestions?


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## CharlesW (Oct 13, 2010)

I don't think you are being ignored.
No one wants to tell you that you probably have big motor problems.
If you didn't run the motor out of oil, something may have failed in the oiling system that caused what is likely a seized motor.
If you can turn the motor over with the starter rope after the motor has cooled, my only suggestion would be to pull the cylinder head and inspect the cylinder walls for damage. 
I have no idea how to check the lower end without tearing the motor down.

It's possible you might be able to restart the motor after it has cooled, but chances are your problem will occur again.
They very seldom fix themselves.
One very small consolation, there's lots of left over machines in our area so prices are somewhat lower.
Still going to cost you some money, though.
Maybe you can hire your snow removal for the remainder of the season and have some time to shop around for either a different machine or a replacement motor.
Good luck.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

You could pick up a $100 6.5HP Predator 212 cc Harbor Freight special assuming your Tecumseh is a single shaft engine. That might be the easiest fix. Currently $149.99 and often on sale for $99.99 - $129.99. If you look around you can usually find coupons too. Going to have to decide how long you are willing to wait vs how bad you need the blower. Luckily no one seems to be getting any snow this year.
http://www.harborfreight.com/engine...d-for-all-states-except-california-68120.html

As for your actual engine. I have heard of valve problems on the smaller 3.5 - 5HP Tecumsehs so maybe you just need yours redone. Most valve issues end up being clearance issues and when they heat up the valves don't fully close and the engine looses power and eventually stalls from lack of compression. This doesn't seize it though, it simple turns over too easy. I am afraid you are going to have to start tearing things apart and hope to find the problem.

You said it has plenty of oil, but you didn't say when it was last changed. Also, if your carb has been leaking all that oil you have could actually be gas instead. Very dirty oil and lots of gas in the oil can be about as bad as no oil at all.

You did mention overheating. Another thing to check is remove the back recoil cover and make sure there are no animal nests in there. Animals like to build nests in the fins on small engines and that blocks the cooling and causes heat buildup problems. If that is your problem you might get lucky and it might run again at least for a little while after it cools down. Just make sure to clean all the fins before running it again.

I would start with the simple things like removing the belt cover and removing both belts. That will tell you if the problem is the engine or the blower.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks for the advice guys. I just recently had the motor apart to change the main cylinder gasket, so I just changed the oil a month ago. The carb is not leaking that I know of. Could the carb need adjusted and cleaned. 
Btw, it has been 24 hours and I still can't get it to turn over, any suggestions? I read that I can poor Marvel Mystery oil in the spark plug hole and it will free it up, worth a try? Thanks again.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

I don't think any oil in the cylinder is going to help if it wont turn. Shryp's idea of swamping out the engine with a harbor freight engine (if you have a single shaft) is the best way to go. If not I think a complete tear down is in order to find out what the problem is. 

carl


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

It is possible. First pull the belt cover off and see if you can turn the crankshaft backwards. It it turns halfway and then locks you broke the rod.

I think most of the oil down the spark plug fixes are for engines that sat for years and seized from rust. I suppose at this point anything is worth a try since it is now useless. If you get to the crankshaft you can put a pipe wrench on it and try gently rocking it back and forth.

Your only other choice would be to start stripping the engine down and find out which specific part locked up.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks again for all the advice but I was hoping for better news. I can't believe this, besides the gasket replacement I spent the last couple of weeks (trial and error) fixing/replacing the driveshaft and bearings - thought this thing was going to be like new. Thanks again.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

I have never did a tear down of a motor, anything I need to know? Any books you would suggest? Any other ideas?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Which gasket are you talking about? The one on top by the spark plug or the front cover where the crankshaft sticks out? If you replaced the front sump cover I wonder if you got the timing wrong when you reassembled it. There are marks on the crankshaft and camshaft that have to line up for it to run correctly. Not sure how much damage poor timing can do though. Suppose something else could have been damaged while it was apart.

It is possible it was nothing you did and the engine was on its way out already. It it was run low on oil in the past it could have already damaged the rod and crank journal and it just finally gave up now.


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## CharlesW (Oct 13, 2010)

jbkidsx5 said:


> Thanks again for all the advice but I was hoping for better news. I can't believe this, besides the gasket replacement I spent the last couple of weeks (trial and error) fixing/replacing the driveshaft and bearings - thought this thing was going to be like new. Thanks again.


After you get that Harbor Freight motor insalled, it will be like new.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

It was the gasket were the crankshaft comes out. If I did mess up the timing would it start and run well at all? It was recently run on bad oil - water was getting in were the gasket went bad. Btw, I found a new Tecumseh motor for $150. I don't know if I should put any more money into this thing.


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> It was the gasket were the crankshaft comes out. If I did mess up the timing would it start and run well at all? It was recently run on bad oil - water was getting in were the gasket went bad. Btw, I found a new Tecumseh motor for $150. I don't know if I should put any more money into this thing.


I remember helping you out on your "crankcase gasket" issue. No one one in this forum could confirm how water may have got in your crankcase as it appeared back then  Without any pictures posted........I would go with a new motor from "Harbor Freight" as suggested from above. All this is nothing but a major headache for yourself







...... Why not get rid of the headache for yourself?







>>>>>>>>>>>>> Talon


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

Talon1189 said:


> I remember helping you out on your "crankcase gasket" issue. No one one in this forum could confirm how water may have got in your crankcase as it appeared back then  Without any pictures posted........I would go with a new motor from "Harbor Freight" as suggested from above. All this is nothing but a major headache for yourself
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There are "NO" new Tecumseh's ..... this company died in like 2008  Please correct me if I am off 1 year here..... LOL!


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

My Redwings buddy comes through to help again - thanks, you are the man. Thanks again to all of you guys. Shyrp - we lived in Westpark for many years when I worked for the city of Cleveland - nice to hear from a fellow Clevelander. Thanks again guys I will probably go with the Harbor Freight motor.


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

some time when you get a chance, check your local library for books on small engine repair. You might find one or two you would like to add to your own library that way. Keep us posted on how things go for you.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Motor*



jbkidsx5 said:


> Thanks again guys I will probably go with the Harbor Freight motor.


The 6.5 HP motor was $99 in store yesterday. Not sure how long it's supposed to be on sale. This is for a single shaft motor.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> My Redwings buddy comes through to help again - thanks, you are the man. Thanks again to all of you guys. Shyrp - we lived in Westpark for many years when I worked for the city of Cleveland - nice to hear from a fellow Clevelander. Thanks again guys I will probably go with the Harbor Freight motor.


Is your current engine a single shaft engine? If not going with a harbor freight engine will entail modifications you may not be willing to make.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks again guys. I will see what kind of books our Library has on small engine repair, might even take a class - this trial and error stuff is getting expensive. As for the harbor freight motor - I read that I need some sort of adapter even though it is a single shaft engine. Anybody know anything about that?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

You shouldn't need any adapters. The things to measure would be the bolt spacing for mounting, the crankshaft diameter and the crankshaft height. The Harbor Freight engine uses a 3/4" diameter crankshaft. The rest of the measurements can be obtained by downloading the manual. I will go out on a limb and say it should be the same as a 5HP Tecumseh. You might need to hammer out or drill the old studs because a lot of older engines used a flat sheet of steel for mounting while newer engine blocks are a thick chunk of aluminum.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

CharlesW said:


> After you get that Harbor Freight motor insalled, it will be like new.


thats debatable..









IMO, it will be quite a bit less than new, in terms of engine quality..
but it will work..

and yes, Tecumseh stopped making engines in 2008..but NOS (New Old Stock) Tecumseh snow engines are still available..personally, I would rather go with a used Tecumseh engine (even a 10, 20, even 40 year old Tecumseh engine) than a brand-new harbor freight engine..but thats just me..

Scot


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Repairs*



jbkidsx5 said:


> I will see what kind of books our Library has on small engine repair, might even take a class - this trial and error stuff is getting expensive.


This could be your best alternative. If you can take something like an adult ed class on small engine repair you could have a virtually new engine for your machine. Additionally you'd have some additional knowledge on what's going on inside it. Whether you do or don't take a class, this year there are alot of machines out there for sale cheap due to the obvious 'no snow' sales all over the place. The longer you wait, the better the prices should get. I've picked up a 5 HP machine for $25 this year plus a 10 HP for $50, plus a few more. They needed some work but for the price I couldn't complain.

You might snag a machine with a replacementment engine for a good price, or who knows - maybe a better machine for bottom feeder pricing. Basically you have at least 3 options available to you, now it's just figuing out what you want to do.

I think there's little chance most of us will have a need for a blower any time soon so it should work out fine for you. Good luck and let us know how you do.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks again for all the advice. I have to admit though, I am not sure what I am going to do. Thank God for the mild winter, it will give me a chance to decide what I am going to do. Whether I take a class, read a book, or buy a new engine for harbor freight - I am going to tear down the seized up engine just to learn something from it. Thanks again guys.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

All right guys, not sure what the heck is going on with this thing but today I went out and tried to turn the engine one more time and it freed up. I can turn it using the crankshaft but something does not feel right, feels like something is rubbing as you turn it. Any suggestions now?


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

the 2 types of metals, aluminum piston and steel cylinder cooled down and shrank freeing up the engine.. you have an oil problem

same problem with a 5 hp ariens i had. it was too low on oil.

pull the plug, look down into the plug hole. you will see the intake and exhaust valves. turn the motor to try to get both valves in the down position.


looking in the hole the piston is off to the side. pour some oil in (you want it in the cylinder not on top of the valves) and let is sit a few minutes. then rotate engine as far as it will go or all the way around and back the other way. do this for a while 

there is some internal piston/cylinder damage but it may free up and run ok, mine did.

when completely oiled up pull the rope for a while to blow out excess oil, then a new plug gapped right, ensure oil level is right and new( some may leak down making it too high) and when it starts let it run at an idle or low throttle. if you have to start it at high throttle fine but back it off as soon as you can. check float level in carb to ensure gas isnt thinning out your oil.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

if you want to save the engine completely without doubt. take it apart and have the cylinder honed and buy a new piston and ring. a good run of the mill small engine manual for your brand will show you how. a honing tool to do the cylinder yourself is cheap enough too.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks, I will give that a try. I just got back from the library with some manuals and books on small engine repair. If it was not for all you guys I would have scrapped this thing a long time ago.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

These are very simple engines to take apart and figure what is wrong. 

I would not try to start this engine. I would pull the head look for scouring on the cylinder and pull the front cover and remove the rod cap and inspect the crank and the rod end for damage. If you see no damage there then pull the piston and check to see if the rings are stuck. before you pull the rod cap try to move it up and down and side to side to check for play.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Misc*

I don't know if this will help or not. First off check out Youtube, Donnyboy(something) has a number of videos on snowblower engines. Take a look and see if any are of help to you and yours.

I also have a couple of threads on Restorationmen forum that might be of some value to you. One is just generally going through a used 7 hp Tecumseh and the other is part of a snowblower rebuild that has a 5 hp Tecumseh. Doesn't go through everything but it does show alot of general info and might be of some use in what to expect. Here's the two most applicable:

Evaluating a used engine
Auger Housing Repair/Rebuild (just a couple of general engine shots in this one)

They don't cover rebuilds etc, but general repairs and validating the engine was usable. Good luck and let us know what you find.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

HCBPH said:


> I don't know if this will help or not. First off check out Youtube, Donnyboy(something) has a number of videos on snowblower engines. Take a look and see if any are of help to you and yours.


donyboy73's Channel - YouTube


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks again guys, I will give all of these things a try.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thought you guys might want to know what I found out as far as the cause of the overheating problem. I took the head off the engine and found that the cylinder was pretty scored up in 2 places. I looked into honing the cylinder and replacing the rings. An expert with years of experience told me that the cylinder was shot. I did find a replacement engine (rebuilt) for $60.
I will go over that real well and then put it on the blower and hope for the best. Thank God for this mild winter!!! Thanks for all the help.


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Hopefully this will be the end of your problems. Think of it is a big learning experience  If this was a normal winter with snow......you would have been more tempted to just junk the whole project......Haha.....Good luck down the road  >>>>>>> Talon


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Rebuilt*

If you got a rebuilt 5 HP engine for $60, you got a steal  You could easily have spent that much on parts if you repaired or rebuilt yours depending on what you had to buy. If you had things like an electric starter on your old one, that should directly transfer to your new motor plus you have a parts engine 'just in case' you need something. Hold onto the old one at least till you have the new engine on and everything is hooked up and working correctly. You could have things like throttle linkage, covers etc that differ because of the brand blower they went on, so save all your parts till you're done. Even then if you have the space consider holding onto the old one, things like carbs, gaskets etc can be worth some $$ especially if you need one on a Sunday afternoon after every place is closed.


5 HP Tecumseh's are probably one of the most solid engines from the era so you're set for many years to come. Congrats.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks for all your advise HCBPH, all of you guys have been a huge help and saved me a lot of $. I was never someone who had the time or cared to find out how these things worked but it quickly became a hobby and I got hooked!!!


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