# slows barely moves forward or reverse.



## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

I own a used 2003 Murray 10hp 27"cut dual stage.My question is: I had noticed black rubber marks all over the friction wheel(the big one that you are not to get grease/oil on. I thought it was an oily mess, but it would not wipe off. Anyhow, today it is -20 celsius...-32 windchill. I get the call to blow a driveway. I fire it up and let it warm right up before loading it on the trailer. 
I put it in reverse and backed up, put it in 3rd and went forward like it should up on the trailer. I left it run till I got to my destination. I got almost 3/4`s of the large driveway done when I noticed it would hardly move in reverse. Even in forward say 2nd or 3rd gear it just didn`t seem as quick. I got finished and loaded it up. What makes it slowly lose speed? It has done this before, but seem to regain after sitting overnight. 
I have a brand new drive belt on there. I`m unsure how much friction disk there is though. 
My other problem, which might affect this first problem sometime down the road: Under that bottom cover, I noticed that it is an icky oily mess. Should a guy forget about it and maybe buy new next year? I heard that that friction wheel is to stay clean, well....it is surrounded by a wet oily mess. lol


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Make sure the rubber on the friction disc isn't all chewed up and cracked, then take some gas or brake cleaner and clean the metal disc and the edge of the rubber. Find the adjustment for the drive clutch and tighten it up.


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

Shryp said:


> Make sure the rubber on the friction disc isn't all chewed up and cracked, then take some gas or brake cleaner and clean the metal disc and the edge of the rubber. Find the adjustment for the drive clutch and tighten it up.


Drive clutch? Are you meaning the cable and that plate that holds the friction disk? I have two cables that are joined together by a flat metal piece with holes through it.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Yes, that might be your adjustment. Some use screws on the springs, yours might just need the cables moved to closer holes.


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks Shryp, I`ll give that a shot in the morning!


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)




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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks Shryp! I think this will likely help! That is exactly the plate with holes I was talking about. I`ll let ya know tomorrow how I make out. Right at the moment the wind chill is -32 degrees celsius and I am staying indoors lol. I don`t own a garage.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Buy new next year ... you can always use this for an excuse if you need one but from what you describe it shouldn't be too hard to repair.

You said it's happened before and after sitting overnight it seems to return to proper operation. Might be the tension on the friction wheel isn't enough to keep it from slipping or you're going too fast and something had to give and the wheel slips, as it slips more it grabs less and less on that rubber coated mess of a driving plate.

Would like to "see" the icky mess under the cover. Could it be the remains of the better part of your rubber friction wheel ?? Any chance you can post a picture? If the rubber friction wheel is leaving rubber on the flat drive plate you should use something to clean that plate off. There might be a chance something is hanging up like a sticking axle bushing or dried out chain. Might also be you walked it up against something and it couldn't cut through and the disc slipped against the plate leaving the rubber as something had to give. Or like the suggestion the tension on the disc isn't sufficient to keep them from slipping and that would cause the rubber tracking too. Plus once it starts slipping and shedding rubber it's getting smaller and would need more tension to hold it properly.

If you have that big a mess on the driving plate I'm wondering how much rubber you have left on the friction wheel. You might need a new rubber ring.

Sorry you don't have a garage to pull it into but when you have the cover off try clean up what you can and hit all the lube points if you get a chance and you still have any feeling left in your hands.  I have a garage but it's full of projects so if something needs repair I'm stuck outside too.


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks. Yes tomorrow I will take picks of "before" and "after" i clean up the friction plate. I`m also going to try adjusting the cable. I did order a new friction wheel (it will be here Friday). Even if I don`t need it, I will have it. I`m sure it has not been changed from the old owner. He bought the blower new and I am the second owner. I am meticulous and the belts were to me...."iffy" so I swapped them out. I`m sure the friction disk isnt far behind.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I got my troybilt "free" from family. Free is always expensive.

Mine had lost it's rubber ring years ago as the owner said he noticed aluminum shavings in the snow under it the last couple years and was hard to maneuver. OH, REALLY !!!

I replace the drive plate and put the friction ring back in the disc and gave it a try. Couple of tries later the rubber ring came loose and tomorrow my new friction disc assembly arrives off ebay. I should have just ordered one when I did the plate but I thought it would work. silly me.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Friction disc*



Kiss4aFrog said:


> I got my troybilt "free" from family. Free is always expensive.
> 
> Mine had lost it's rubber ring years ago as the owner said he noticed aluminum shavings in the snow under it the last couple years and was hard to maneuver. OH, REALLY !!!
> 
> I replace the drive plate and put the friction ring back in the disc and gave it a try. Couple of tries later the rubber ring came loose and tomorrow my new friction disc assembly arrives off ebay. I should have just ordered one when I did the plate but I thought it would work. silly me.


 If it was me, I'd see if there was some form of glue that could be used on the friction surface to stick it to the hub in addition to clamping pressure of bolting it together. Something similar is used on larger bandsaws drive wheels and might be an option for you.


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

I never knew that rubber ring could be bought separately. I`ve just seen the complete assembly being installed.


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

Well here are the "before/after" pics. I adjusted the cable also and lightly greased the shaft. It seems to work. Sometimes I can go from reverse to 1st and it seems to stay in reverse until I release the handle and press it down again..then it goes forward. Maybe once it gets working, it will work better. That friction disk does not have the "high center ridge" like a new one would. What do you guys think? I also adjusted the cable one hole. It was pretty tight getting it to the next hole. This afternoon I will blow some with it and see if it works better. I don`t like the fact how oily it is under that panel. I check my oil everyday before and after and it has never moved off full.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

You are not suppose to change gears while holding the handle down.


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

Shryp said:


> You are not suppose to change gears while holding the handle down.


No, I was in reverse and released the handle, put it in 1st gear and pressed the lever down and it was still in reverse. I released the lever and pressed it back down a second time and it moved forward. Could be just a little sticky. I had used a slight film of low temp grease on the shaft.
What do you think by looking at the friction disk?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Looks fine to me. What is that white stuff everywhere? Is that just snow from having the cover off?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Your disc looks good. Due to your extreme temps maybe you'd be better off using oil on the shaft, sparingly if the friction disc is feeling a little sticky. A drop or two at every joint along the way on the shifting linkage is a good idea.



HCBPH said:


> If it was me, I'd see if there was some form of glue that could be used on the friction surface to stick it to the hub in addition to clamping pressure of bolting it together..


It's strange how the mind works. I was actually thinking of using a 1/4 mile race trick. We used small sheet metal screws through the wheel into the bead area. VERY short ones, just enough to get a bite into the bead but not make it leak to keep the wheel from spinning inside the tire. When you have over a 1,000 horsepower you'd be amazed what you need to do to get that power to the ground !!!
I was thinking of drilling the metal friction disc halves to accept a few screws into the rubber to keep it in place. I'm cheap and I may experiment on the damaged one now that I have a new one going in but I didn't want to mess with it when I first pulled the trans down to put in the new driving plate. 
Looking at the chewed up edge of that friction disc I should have know better and just replaced it to begin with.

Yup ... the ring is separate on most machines and can be ordered for around 15-20 from what I've seen. Mine was used through two or three Minnesota winters with the friction disc running straight metal to metal on the aluminum friction plate or driving plate so the outer edge of the friction disc was pretty tough. The aluminum plate took the worst of it and inspecting that two piece friction disc I thought the area that did the clamping was good. Might be that the upper edge was warn away enough it lets the rubber roll out. Just happy to buy the assembly and hopefully be done with trans problems for this year !!!
Built breaker bars and have the material for the impeller clearance "cure" but not sure that's getting done till spring (unheated garage).


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

Shryp said:


> Looks fine to me. What is that white stuff everywhere? Is that just snow from having the cover off?


 Yes it was just snow/ice. When I pulled the cover there was a big ice chunk that I got out. It was under the main disk. Its been -32 degrees celsius windchill the last few days and suppose to hit -41 celsius windchill by morning.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Well UPS finally showed up with my new disc, installed and spent some time re-cleaning the inside of the thansmission housing as I had more room and better light. There was still a lot of aluminum shavings in there to be mopped out. I did take my own advise after adjusting the cable and oiled the shaft the friction disc slides on. I was using Mobile synthetic wheel bearing grease and even at only 6 degrees F it seems a bit more stiff than it should. After lightly adding and spreading a few drops of some 10w30 on the shaft it's noticeably easier to slide.

If you work the forward, backward gear selector end to end you might see your friction wheel isn't moving as fast as it should and it might be the grease that's slowing it down. Your temp is way more brutal than mine so I'm guessing grease might not be the ideal lube to use. 

Now I have to finish up on the JD rider to make sure it's good to go too.

Windchill only matters to you. The machine doesn't notice windchill as it's a matter of moisture evaporating off your skin that is being measured with wind chill.
I'm at 6 F and you are -18 F. I always joke that any day above zero is a good day !! Just came in from the Troy's first outing. Nothing broke but my hands and legs are a little numb.


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## Runner50 (Jan 21, 2013)

Shryp said:


> You are not suppose to change gears while holding the handle down.


Are you strictly talking forward to reverse & visa versa? From what I understand, it's OK to shift on the fly (handle down) in forward gears. Correct?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Runner50 said:


> Are you strictly talking forward to reverse & visa versa? From what I understand, it's OK to shift on the fly (handle down) in forward gears. Correct?


I have done it, but I don't think you are suppose to shift on the fly.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Shryp said:


> I have done it, but I don't think you are suppose to shift on the fly.


You sound like me! LOL.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Shryp said:


> I have done it, but I don't think you are suppose to shift on the fly.


+1 and after having the rubber come out of the friction wheel, no more !!


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## Runner50 (Jan 21, 2013)

OK, thanks guys. Good to know.


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## DonaldJ (Dec 5, 2013)

On every machine that I had this nightmare little problem with, I washed the rubber parts and platter with very wet lacquer thinner 3-times, and buffed it dry.. then I had no more problems, except with the one machine that I put too much oil on the parts in that area.. The oil splashed around, got onto the platter and rubber, and caused the problem again, so I cleaned off all the excess oil as much as I could, redid the thinner treatment, and never had that problem again...

In the printing industry they use lacquer thinner as "rubber-roller reguvenator".. but too much use of lacquer thinner on rubber makes some types of rubber dry out and crack.. The problem is generally oil getting on the rubber...

On one machine, when the rubber surfaces were too worn out for it to work properly, I sprayed the rubber with a tar based belt no-slip dressing.. It worked for a while...


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