# Craftsman 179cc 24" idle issue



## flybooey

Well, I was a lurker for a while and used many tips to fix my old MTD. So thanks for that.

I now have a Craftsman 24" 179cc OHV that has the surging/hunting issue.
This is at all throttle settings with "some" calming with the choke one click up from full on. It is almost non-existent when the throttle is on the lowest but the choke is still required.
Bought it off my buddy who bought it maybe 3-4 years ago and I don't recall this issue when we were clearing together. 

Changed plug which was thick with carbon, Dumped fuel and refilled. Took off carb and bowl. Clean on visual, float smooth but all the jets seem to be sealed and I can't tell if the little orifices on the engine side of the carb are plugged or not. 

Model # 247.889570
Carb # 951-10974 or 951-12705
I also am perplexed by a seemingly misaligned drive belt as it feeds onto and off the drive wheel. It therefore on the two brackets on either side of the wheel when the drive lever is disengaged and machine stationary.
That was a new belt 5 minutes ago. When engaged and moving forward it obviously pulls the belt into the V-groove of the pulley. Not the case while idling.

If asking two questions is excessive I can chop it down.

Thanks everyone

Dave


----------



## td5771

You need a carb rebuild. 


Idler pulley or the belt guides are not adjusted properly and letting the belt fly all over. 


More detail soon....bath time for the kids


----------



## SlowRider22

The carb is running a lean...the jets may be partially clogged and not allowing enough fuel to enter when the engine is under a load, or there's a slight air leak somewhere within the carb or where it bolts to the engine block. My guess is the former.


----------



## flybooey

Can this carb be rebuilt? I've built old motorcycle carbs years ago but this doesn't look like it has jets etc to remove.

tks
yeah bathtime here too, gong show usually


----------



## GustoGuy

SlowRider22 said:


> The carb is running a lean...the jets may be partially clogged and not allowing enough fuel to enter when the engine is under a load, or there's a slight air leak somewhere within the carb or where it bolts to the engine block. My guess is the former.


These engines are fixed jet emission engines and they run pretty lean. Since it is 3 to 4 years old it is most likely a gummed up with residual fuel varnish in the High speed jet. It is real easy to clean. On your carburetor you would first shut off the gasoline from the fuel tank then remove the 10mm bolt from the bottom of the carburetor a small amount of gas will drain out. In the threaded in area just above where you removed the bolt there will be a jet and an emulsion tube. You need to use a good flathead screw driver to remove the jet be careful not to strip the jet because it is made out of brass and the emulsion tube will come out right after the jet is removed. To clean the jet take a small piece of stiff thin wire and feed it through the hole in the jet making sure to spray it through the inside of the small opening with carburetor cleaner. Then check all the small holes in the emulsion tube with the wire and spray clean on the inside and outside of the e-tube with carburetor cleaner. then simply reinsert the emulsion tube in the same way it came out and then thread the jet back up and tighten until it is snug be careful not to strip it when tightening it. Check the fuel filter too only if you have one in the fuel line. Most Honda clones tend to only have a filter mesh insert in the filler neck of the gas tank. If you happen to have a fuel filter in gas line you may need to replace the filter if it is clogged with a similar type of filter. Choke it and start it and see if it will run properly with out needing to run at partial choke once the engine is fully warmed up. Good luck there is lots of video's on You tube showing you how to do it. Use non-oxygenated fuel (with out ethanol in it) and if you can buy Sea Foam I would use that instead of Stabil since I used to use Stabil before and I still needed to clean my Carburetor after 2 years on my snowmobile. Sea Foam has never let me down and Everything has ran well after coming out of storage with Sea Foam. Mix about 1/2 pint in 5 gallons of gasoline and you will not have fuel related issues of a clogged up High speed jet over summer storage

Mark


----------



## flybooey

I did pull the main jet but the tube didnt come out so I thought it was somehow fixed in place. I will attack it again. The youtube videos i found were all for older carbs with the screw on the bottom of the bowl. I will look gain regarding the tube. thanks.....

regarding the belt, Are the belt guides below by the drive pulley even adjustable...they didn't appear so? 
And the idler pulley has adjustment as well ?

thanks so much guys.

Dave


----------



## SlowRider22

As for the belt, I've never looked at the belt drive of a Craftsman but I can't imagine it's much different from the Ariens that I've worked on. Are you sure the belt guides are all there...should be two of them or one larger one that's configured to cover two spots of the pulley/belt. Maybe they came loose and are allowing slack the belt to move when engaged. Or it might be something that is out of place and is rubbing against the belt causing it to wear out.


----------



## td5771

Similar to what gusto said..the bolt in the center of the bowl comes out and the jet is in the carb in the threaded hole the bolt came out of with the emulsion tube under it. That's on the newer style.

Old fixed jet carb style is similar. The bolt you take out from the bowl center is the jet and has holes that need to be cleaned. The emulsion tube is in the center threaded hole again and is many times made of plastic. I use a custom ground down pair of needle nose pliers to pull it out. Cheap if you break it but you have to order it. 

On the side of the carb you may see what looks to be a black plug. It is just a cap. Pry it out with a sharp
object(it is made of plastic) and under it will be a brass plug with a slot screw driver head. Unscrew it to clean out the idle circuit.

The rebuild kit comes with 2 new o rings for the emulsion tube and if you dare to remove the welch plugs ( you should and they are easy to remove and install) they are in the kit as well. There is one on the bottom of the carb under the floatand one on the side of the carb. A small drill very carefully done and pry them out. Installation is just lay them in place hand lightly hammer them flat with a blunt object.


----------



## td5771

Center bolt bolt on the idler pulley will loosen and you should have some adjustment to tighten or loosen the belt.

Not all have belt guides. Have a craftsman right now that does. The are bolted to the motor and extend out adjacent to the main engine pulley. Mine is supposed to be 3/16 of an inch from the belt when the lever is engaged to tighten the belt.


----------



## td5771

Can you recheck the model number? I put it in and got nothing. Wanted to narrow down the advice.


----------



## flybooey

td5771 said:


> Can you recheck the model number? I put it in and got nothing. Wanted to narrow down the advice.



Sure can, thanks for you time.

I had to remove the zero at the end for some reason.

Dave


----------



## flybooey

For the trouble involved with taking it on/off multiple times and not finding the fix has there been much luck with the aftermarket carbs? A new one on ebay is 35-45 bucks.

Dave


----------



## jtclays

Dave, Are you sure that's the right belt? Googling and Sears parts show a 1/2" X 35 (sears part #954-04050). That second pic sure looks like it's a 36" or something is missing. Diagrams show no belt guides on this model, but it just looks too big.
Other thought was to check the idler in pic #3 (lower pulley in pic) to make sure it spins freely and doesn't angle inward toward the engine when the handle is released??? Something is obviously catching the auger side of that belt.


----------



## td5771

I have had good luck with the aftermarket Carbs. I use them when the original is too badly corroded.

A rebuild kit is cheap. 8 bucks or so. Plus carb cleaner.

For the ease factor a new carb. Might be worth it. How much is shipping.


----------



## flybooey

td5771 said:


> I have had good luck with the aftermarket Carbs. I use them when the original is too badly corroded.
> 
> A rebuild kit is cheap. 8 bucks or so. Plus carb cleaner.
> 
> For the ease factor a new carb. Might be worth it. How much is shipping.


Free
951 12705 951 10974A | eBay

Carburetor MTD 951 10974A 520 862 | eBay


----------



## flybooey

jtclays said:


> Dave, Are you sure that's the right belt? Googling and Sears parts show a 1/2" X 35 (sears part #954-04050). That second pic sure looks like it's a 36" or something is missing. Diagrams show no belt guides on this model, but it just looks too big.
> Other thought was to check the idler in pic #3 (lower pulley in pic) to make sure it spins freely and doesn't angle inward toward the engine when the handle is released??? Something is obviously catching the auger side of that belt.


My issue is with the drive belt 954-0367/754-0367. The one I ordered was 
3/8" X 34 1/2" .
Carburetor MTD 951 10974A 520 862 | eBay

I pulled all my numbers from the sears site, so I'm not sure what is going on here.
Now the auger belt has the Sears P/N too but it definitely appears to be the sloppy one even with the tensioner adjusted to the next hole over the flop is rubbing the belt guard. So i've really got two rub problems. Auger belt on the plastic cover and the drive belt on two red brackets. When I got it the inside was full of debris from the drive belt


----------



## jtclays

Dave, My bad, I linked on model 247.889571 and somehow got the auger belt part number. Rechecking, you have the listed part number belt in the 3/8"
34 1/2". If you're getting rub now on the auger belt as well maybe check the auger housing to tractor housing alignment. I have no idea how yours connects, but mine have two built in hooks on the auger housing that overlap a bar inside the bottom of the tractor housing. You then tilt the machine together and bolt the top sides of the auger/tractor assembly. Is it possible you mixed up a bolt location when splitting the machine???? Bolts loose???
The only other thing I could guess would be the engine shaft pulley has moved on the shaft(read towards the auger bucket)???


----------



## flybooey

jtclays said:


> Dave, My bad, I linked on model 247.889571 and somehow got the auger belt part number. Rechecking, you have the listed part number belt in the 3/8"
> 34 1/2". If you're getting rub now on the auger belt as well maybe check the auger housing to tractor housing alignment. I have no idea how yours connects, but mine have two built in hooks on the auger housing that overlap a bar inside the bottom of the tractor housing. You then tilt the machine together and bolt the top sides of the auger/tractor assembly. Is it possible you mixed up a bolt location when splitting the machine???? Bolts loose???
> The only other thing I could guess would be the engine shaft pulley has moved on the shaft(read towards the auger bucket)???



I will take a peek at that housing. I have not split this one myself yet.
As far as the drive belt.....I will take a peek at the idler and may have to adjust the cable maybe to pull some slack. I dont know. The drive wheel just seems to move so much when it is in the disengaged position that the belt would have to have very little slack in order for it to run onto and off the wheel and stay in the groove.

Thanks a lot for everyone sparing time here


----------



## flybooey

So i cleaned the carb, Flushed the orifices, pulled the main jet and tube etc... I didn't however drill the welch plug. It was debris free but maybe I popped oped a varnish plugged hole. I ordered a new carb for 30 bucks and how that will fix the surging that you can hear in the video (turn down your audio first)

As you can see in the video the belt runs onto and off the pulley on the outer rim and not into the groove causing it to rub on the brackets which are close to the pulley down below.





Anyone else getting this type of wear? 
As far as the idler pulley it is not adjustable

thanks thus far everyone

Dave


----------



## Blue Hill

When I click on the video it says it's private?? As far as the belt is concerned, you have to have misalignment somewhere in one of the pulleys or idlers that makes it want to pull to one side. It could be a vertical misalignment because one of the pulleys is not in line with the others. If you can get a straight edge of some sort in there and run it from top and bottom on the side of one pulley to top and bottom on the same side of the other, they should line up perfectly with each other. You could also have a worn bushing or bearing that's allowing one of the pulleys to run cockeyed. Those are the only things that cause a belt to run crooked. The belt is always going to run where there is the least resistance, so one of your pulleys is tilted in the direction that your belt is running. The principle is the same whether it's a 4' wide conveyor belt or a 1/2" wide drive belt.


----------



## jtclays

Dave, No experience with this machine but wonder about this pic?????
Is that arm doing anything that far away from the belt?
Perhaps something got in there and knocked it out of the correct path?
Spitballing here, just trying to help.


----------



## flybooey

Blue Hill said:


> When I click on the video it says it's private?? As far as the belt is concerned, you have to have misalignment somewhere in one of the pulleys or idlers that makes it want to pull to one side. It could be a vertical misalignment because one of the pulleys is not in line with the others. If you can get a straight edge of some sort in there and run it from top and bottom on the side of one pulley to top and bottom on the same side of the other, they should line up perfectly with each other. You could also have a worn bushing or bearing that's allowing one of the pulleys to run cockeyed. Those are the only things that cause a belt to run crooked. The belt is always going to run where there is the least resistance, so one of your pulleys is tilted in the direction that your belt is running. The principle is the same whether it's a 4' wide conveyor belt or a 1/2" wide drive belt.



Fixed the link, tks.


----------



## Shryp

Is that belt even tight on there? There should be no slack in the drive belt as normally the friction disc moves back and forth to act as the clutch instead of the idler pulley. It could be the belt is too long or it could be the idler is not adjusted properly.


----------



## nt40lanman

It looks like it's crooked. Maybe the bearing/support for that large pulley is bad and allowing it to tilt? Can you take the tension off the belt and see if the lower pulley is sloppy?

Alternatively, maybe the engine pulley is positioned wrong?


----------



## flybooey

Shryp said:


> Is that belt even tight on there? There should be no slack in the drive belt as normally the friction disc moves back and forth to act as the clutch instead of the idler pulley. It could be the belt is too long or it could be the idler is not adjusted properly.


Well...the answer to that is no and that has been driving me insane. I was thinking the same thing about the idler pulley and from what I see the idler pulley/tensioner has no adjustment has quite strong linear range when moved without any belt on it.

When I engage the drive you can see and hear the idler pulley smack into position. 
The friction disc feels snug on the bracket that tilts to engage the friction wheel.

The belts I ordered off ebay were listed as the 954-0367 (3/8 X 34-1/2)
but showed up as some India made A&I A-24618 version which measures out as 3/8X34-1/2. I completely agree that if the belt were a bit shorted that it would stay in the groove and only be engaged when the friction disc is actuated and not a combination of the idler shifting and the friction wheel moving into alignment. 

Idler pulley/tensioner pics

By the way....tossed on a new 30$ Carburetor and pow....new machine.


----------



## flybooey

jtclays said:


> Dave, No experience with this machine but wonder about this pic?????
> Is that arm doing anything that far away from the belt?
> Perhaps something got in there and knocked it out of the correct path?
> Spitballing here, just trying to help.


That arm is (from what I see) there to rest against that bolt. That little arm is part of the plate that the friction wheel mounts to. As the drive is engaged the little arm lifts off the bolt and when the drive is disengaged and the handle released the arm rests back onto to the bolt. This prevents the assembly from traveling back into the auger pulley.


----------



## flybooey

So all is well with the carb issue (replaced it) and now the belt issue is resolved. 

After Sears.com, Local small engine shop, and on Ebay with chicago lawn and garden they all stated that the p/n was correct and the belt dimensions were proper.
I went from a 3/8x34.5" which was supposed to be OEM to a 34" on my own. The 34" fits perfect, keep proper tension on the belt and keeps it running in the groove of the friction plate and not on the outer lip. No more belt wear at all.

Thanks all for your input with my issues.

Dave


----------

