# HS50 Rebuild



## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Hello folks
I have been down a long journey of repairing a HS50 Honda snow blower that has seen better days. This is a list of issues found as delivered.

Survey results

Runs, but not with the choke off.
A lot of blue smoke at start up.
Transmission drags forward in neutral.
Muffler rusted out.
Tracks are cracked.
Auger shaft bearings have failed. 6203 (2)
Drive axel bearings have failed. 6005 (2) + 6004 (3)
Drive disc shaft bearings have failed. 6002 (2)
Spline shaft bearings have failed. 6004 (1) 6201 (1)
Counter gear needle bearing is loose. HMK 1215 (1)
Fan shaft bearing has failed. 6203 (1)
Augers and fan are rusted to their shafts.
Chute crank handle bushing has failed.
Track roller center hubs are worn.
Auger housing scraper edge has rusted out.
Belts are badly worn.
Friction disc spline shaft gear is almost completely worn out.
Auger housing, scraper, engine bed, and Chute are badly rusted.
Scraper studs all broke off upon removal.
Fan blade is bent.
Recoil guard is missing the finger guards.
Spark plug is a Champion L88 which does not show up on the NGK BP 4HS-10 cross reference. 312 L87YC does.
Transmission case, left side gasket is obsolete.
I'm sure some of you will say leave that problem child behind, but that ship has sailed. So I will try to address one issue at a time and post the corrective actions here for your information should you decide to have a go at a 40 year old snow blower.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

are you doing this just for fun? anothe Honda maniac like northeast dave. his thread would be the go to one on a rebuild like this.

this would be just a parts machine for me.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

At this point in the project I would agree with you orangputeh, but the owner had one for years and he regretted the day he sold it, so he went out and found this one to supplement his other 928 snow blower. I don't mind fixing up older equipment but the amount of parts for this model that are obsolete, and expensive if bought as used, is reason enough not to do this rebuild. For this owner it is nostalgic, so on we went.


Runs, but not with the choke off.
I pulled the carb apart and cleaned it thoroughly. Unfortunately it showed no improvement, so I repeated the process soaking it longer this time. I haven't tried it since but if it is still a problem I may go out and get an ultrasonic parts washer. Have any of you tried one, and how do you like it?


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

A lot of blue smoke at start up.
It turns out the snow blower had been transported laying down so some oil may have seeped past the piston rings. After about 45 seconds it cleaned up and ran OK. Really smoked up the shop though. I am going to replace the spark plug and the one installed was a Champion L88 which does not show up on the cross reference table for the now obsolete NGK BP4HS. If my research is correct a Champion 312 L87YC should be OK or is there a better one?


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Transmission drags forward in neutral.
This may have been the result of some worn out bearings. Since replacing them and adjusting the shifter it seems to be OK on the bench at least.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Muffler rusted out.
The muffler for this machine is now obsolete and the used ones on E-Bay did not look very appealing, so I purchased a Honda substitute. I haven't heard it yet but it's not nearly as pretty as the original one was when it was new.









Old original muffler rusted out.








Honda aftermarket muffler.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

wow, that chassis pic looks very clean. these carbs are very good but I have had problems with every one. I got a cheapo ultrasonic from Harbor freight and probably cleaned at least a 100. It will probably make a difference and clean out those minute holes in the throat.

It's really worth using the OEM carb if possible. An aftermarket will work but you can not use the manual choke with the carb cover which is attractive.

How does this muffler work? I have used cheap aftermarket mufflers on a 55 and a 724 and they were horrible. ended up trashing them.

I have the Honda shop manual. about 47 bucks from Honda Power Equipment. worth it to me.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

It wasn't clean when I got the blower. A mouse had made a home in there and various bits of debris and even walnut shells were in there when I got it. 









I haven't fired the blower up since I installed this muffler. It is a Honda muffler, part number 18310-833-N00 at $36.79 which turns into $74.73 by the time shipping, handling, exchange rate, and duty are done with me. Are you saying that you can still buy the original muffler?


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Tracks are cracked.
I pressure washed the tracks let them dry and then sprayed them with Armour All. They look a lot better and some of you have said the cracked tracks can last for a long time which is good. You can see the tracks as delivered in the picture above and here is the after picture.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Auger shaft bearings have failed. 6203 (2)
The bearings are bought but not yet installed as the auger housing is still being painted. Still needs a touch up. Should have it done in a couple of days. If I repaint too soon the paint wrinkles and I don't want to go there again.








I am also thinking of doing the Honda logo in white.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Drive axel bearings have failed. 6005 (2) + 6004 (3)
The drive axel was a bit of a pain to get out as some of the components had rusted onto the shaft. A lot of penetrating oil, a bearing splitter, and some gear pullers did the trick.
























New bearing


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Drive disc shaft bearings have failed. 6002 (2)









The lower two bearings are the old disc drive bearings. The odd thing is these bearings did not have a seal on the inside when removed. The new ones have 2 seals, one on the outside as well as one on the inside. It may have been why these original bearings failed.








New bearings installed.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Spline shaft bearings have failed. 6004 (1) 6201 (1)
The spline shaft bearings reside in the transmission housings both left and right side.








The bearing in the bottom of this right side transmission housing is the spline shaft bearing.









The bearing on right hand side of this transmission case for the left side of the blower is the spline shaft bearing. The old removed bearings are on the bench above the casting.









Spline shaft reinstalled.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Counter gear needle bearing is loose. HMK 1215 (1)
This has been the bearing that has required the most force to install. I ended up using my 6" vice and some flat blocks to get the job done.









The white lithium grease was used to reduce the friction of the install.









I then packed the transmission housing with grease and reinstalled it.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

very thorough work

no, you cant buy a new oem muffler. i have some but they are for future projects.
i take the bucket apart to sand/grind/primer paint and replace hardware with new. but yours looks nice. a kinda apple red. looks like . I use colonial red or apple red. 2X rustoleum primer/paint all in one. 
yes, those tracks are very sturdy even with cracks. try to find a free/cheap donor machine this summer. i have 3-4 just for parts. most were free. 

I never have rebuilt a right side tranny on a HS50-55-70 or 80 cause not worth the time for me but have done about 10 on the hydro static models. maybe someday. I understand that parts are NLA for this gearcase cept bearings. 
How did the gears look? or the spindle shaft??? which I heard is the usual failure point due to wearing so how were the splinds on that? I have heard some people will file the worn splinds or weld them and then cut new splinds. too much work for me. I always install a zerk grease fitting in these cases to pump in new grease in every fall.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Augers and fan are rusted to their shafts.
This was the most disappointing aspect of this repair. I soaked it for two weeks in penetrating oils and could not get them to budge. All three of the sheer bolts broke off during removal and the broken remains had to be drilled out, as a punch and hammer had no affect. I will be returning the blower to the owner with the sheer bolts out in hopes that blowing snow will work them loose. I didn't want to horse it further as the chance damaging the auger gearbox is probable and it is obsolete.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

orangputeh said:


> very thorough work
> 
> no, you cant buy a new oem muffler. i have some but they are for future projects.
> i take the bucket apart to sand/grind/primer paint and replace hardware with new. but yours looks nice. a kinda apple red. looks like . I use colonial red or apple red. 2X rustoleum primer/paint all in one.
> ...


Yes the spline shaft in this gearbox had failed on the final gear end. I found a good used one on E-Bay and it holds the record for the most expensive item in this repair.








New to me and failed spline shaft.









The rubber boot covers the end of the spline shaft.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Very impressed with your thorough attention to detail bringing this tired and neglected machine back to life, you are doing a great job.

I really like the detailed photos and description of the restoration, as it helps someone like me who has never worked on a Honda, better understand the steps you are taking. 

I enjoy following these restoration threads of any make of snow blower or OPE, looking forward to seeing the finished product.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Fan shaft bearing has failed. 6203 (1)
The fan shaft bearing has been bought and will be installed when the auger housing goes back on.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Chute crank handle bushing has failed.
Upon arrival the bushing was missing and someone had wrapped the handle with electrical tape to take up the slack.








Does this bracket look like its facing the wrong direction? If someone has a HS50 could you check yours?










I made a new bushing out of high density polypropylene. Hopefully it works OK.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Track roller center hubs are worn.









In this photo you can see the loose fit between the roller and the hub.








I bushed the center hub for a better fit. Hopefully it will stand up to the wear with a little grease on it.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Auger housing scraper edge has rusted out.

















This picture shows the scraper removed.








The rusted metal has been trimmed out.








A piece of one eighth thick by 2 inch flat stock was welded onto the leading edge of the auger housing and the a piece of one quarter inch round stock was used as a filler rod. Slots had to be milled into the 2" flat stock so the scraper can be reattached.









I laid a heavy coat of paint along the bottom edge to ward off future rust, which did run a bit but the scraper will cover it up thankfully.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

yes, its on backward. i replace that plastic bushing with a rubber grommet. not sure size offhand. I buy 20 at a time.
bearings failing no big deal considering the machine is 40 plus years old. Anytime i remove a bucket I replace the impeller ( fan ) bearing. the side bearings are usually okay and I repack with grease if no race play.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Interesting that you used 1/4 inch round stock as filler. I just started to refurbish Honda buckets a little while ago and never thought of that. her is a 928 bucket that I am doing now. pic is kinda blurry.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

orangputeh said:


> Interesting that you used 1/4 inch round stock as filler. I just started to refurbish Honda buckets a little while ago and never thought of that. her is a 928 bucket that I am doing now. pic is kinda blurry.
> View attachment 179334


Yes the rust on this bucket was extensive, and a piece of 1/4" stock I had on hand blended in nicely. It also added some rigidity to the bottom edge. I believe this bucket may now be stronger than it was originally.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

orangputeh said:


> yes, its on backward. i replace that plastic bushing with a rubber grommet. not sure size offhand. I buy 20 at a time.
> bearings failing no big deal considering the machine is 40 plus years old. Anytime i remove a bucket I replace the impeller ( fan ) bearing. the side bearings are usually okay and I repack with grease if no race play.


Thanks. The crank handle for the chute, looked way to low as delivered. I'll correct this when I reinstall it.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Judging by your metal work and that shiny red machine in the back ground, this is not your first rodeo


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Ziggy65 said:


> Judging by your metal work and that shiny red machine in the back ground, this is not your first rodeo


Although I have welded body metal in the past, I'm not confident enough to do thin metal. It's a perishable skill. But I have the good fortune of having a son who is a Millwright and he and I did this welding repair.
The machine in the background is a 1955 International 300 Utility tractor, which was my project last winter. I seem to be attracted to repairing older equipment. Keeps me learning, and busy at the same time.








The snow blower for it is still in need of repair and in the back yard. Future project.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I'll have to try that round stock trick. It does look very strong. On one bucket I just overlapped the metal about a 1/4 inch. Otherwise just right up to it and welded it supports on each end. This bucket I'm doing now will be powder coated when I'm done with prep work.

I always wanna learn more in restoration.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

orangputeh said:


> I'll have to try that round stock trick. It does look very strong. On one bucket I just overlapped the metal about a 1/4 inch. Otherwise just right up to it and welded it supports on each end. This bucket I'm doing now will be powder coated when I'm done with prep work.
> 
> I always wanna learn more in restoration.


I love powder coat. Its such a beautiful and durable finish. 
This bucket has two coats of high fill primer and three coats of rust paint. I needed the paint depth to hide some of the rust marks that were created when the rust neutralizer had done it's work.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Auger housing, scraper, engine bed, and Chute are badly rusted.
After knocking off the loose bits with a wire wheel, I applied a rust neutralizer to the damaged surfaces with great results. 
























I don't know if you can see it very well, but the rust is gone and the metal has a light gray color. It did make quite a mess of my welding bench though. It left a black crust on the bench that I had to scrape off. 









You can still see the etching on the bench behind the auger worm shaft, after the crust has been scraped away.
I think I may have to invest in a sand blaster.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Scraper studs all broke off upon removal.









The studs had rusted mostly off of the scraper bar and easily twisted off when I tried to remove them. I ended up milling the raised pads off of the scraper and drilled holes to receive 6mm stainless steel carriage bolts.








The stainless steel bolts should look reasonably good against the black paint on the scraper.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Fan blade is bent.
Again this auger and fan blade assembly are my biggest disappointment.
I couldn't break the fan loose off of its shaft, but I did manage to get some of the worst bends straightened up.








You can still see a little bit of a bend in the far paddle.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Recoil guard is missing the finger guards.









I don't know if the finger guard is separate and missing, or just broken.








I ordered what was supposed to be a direct replacement, but as you can see the backs are quite different and the new one will not fit. Have any of you found a way to address this issue?


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Transmission case, left side gasket is obsolete.
And finally the left side transmission case. I was on the fence as to whether I should take this transmission apart since it seemed to work quite smoothly when I tested it but I'm glad I did. The spline shaft final gear was badly worn and wouldn't have lasted much longer. The gasket was no longer available from Honda so I got some Felpro cork gasket material and made one.








A few points to remember if you do this.
The bottom right and the top bolt hole in this picture have alignment bolts in them and need to be larger than the other holes. You won't be able to get the bolts in and you will have to remove it and fix the problem.

Most importantly you need to remember to put the darn thing in there in when you do the reassembly. I got all tied up with making sure the clutch arm and other shafts were aligned and in place that I forgot to put it in the first try. This is one instance where three arms would be helpful.

When I get the final paint is done I will post the completed picture. Today I painted the chute tip black.


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## Northeast Dave (Apr 29, 2020)

Toon said:


> Drive disc shaft bearings have failed. 6002 (2)
> 
> View attachment 179304
> 
> ...


those bearings are only closed in the outside and open in the inside. Can’t explain why but the manual details it that way and the part number matches up with the bearings I changed out on mine.


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## Northeast Dave (Apr 29, 2020)

Nice work by the way. As a fellow 50 fan to another I can appreciate the work to rebuild a 50, not like others if that era for sure.
Looking forward to seeing your end result, as stated prior I love rebuild threads, especially if it’s a model I have personally worked on.
If you have any questions about locations/placement of parts, let me know, I could probably help you out, or Orang, he’s rebuilt a few of them and was my go to last year when I first started in on my 50.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Northeast Dave said:


> those bearings are only closed in the outside and open in the inside. Can’t explain why but the manual details it that way and the part number matches up with the bearings I changed out on mine.


Hi Dave
Thanks for the response. It seems odd to me that they are open on the inside. Dirt certainly isn't an issue as the area is sealed from the outside world by the shaft but it does allow for the grease to escape the bearing, so I ordered mine with seals on both sides.


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## Northeast Dave (Apr 29, 2020)

Toon said:


> Hi Dave
> Thanks for the response. It seems odd to me that they are open on the inside. Dirt certainly isn't an issue as the area is sealed from the outside world by the shaft but it does allow for the grease to escape the bearing, so I ordered mine with seals on both sides.


I agree. There is also an open sided bearing inside the final gear as well, which makes sense as the final gear box is packed with grease. I don’t question the engineers and follow the manual, to be honest, open/closed, mine is 40 years old, why question it.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

So here's why.
A woman for years cut the end off of all of her roasts before she placed them in the baking pan. She did this because her mother had done this while she watched as a child. Later in life she asked her mother why she did this. Her mother simply replied that the roast was too large and it wouldn't fit into the pan.
We don't always know the reasons why decisions are made. Maybe its a Friday and the engineer simply wants to go home. Maybe it's a cost issue.
My view is this, think about it, if it makes sense to you do it, if it doesn't make sense, think it through and make your own decision.
By the way you did an amazing job on your restoration. Well done.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Toon said:


> At this point in the project I would agree with you orangputeh, but the owner had one for years and he regretted the day he sold it, so he went out and found this one to supplement his other 928 snow blower. I don't mind fixing up older equipment but the amount of parts for this model that are obsolete, and expensive if bought as used, is reason enough not to do this rebuild. For this owner it is nostalgic, so on we went.
> 
> 
> Runs, but not with the choke off.
> ...


Update. 
After 2 disassembly's and cleaning with carb cleaner the engine would still not run with the choke completely off. I purchased an Ultrasonic cleaner and after 2 cleaning cycles and a rinse cycle the engine ran perfectly with the choke completely off.








I was also instructed by a friend who works on Honda engines, to make sure this screw was out when the housing was cleaned in the Ultrasonic washer. He says this orifice meters the gas during idle. If any of you could verify this to be correct I would appreciate it.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

orangputeh said:


> wow, that chassis pic looks very clean. these carbs are very good but I have had problems with every one. I got a cheapo ultrasonic from Harbor freight and probably cleaned at least a 100. It will probably make a difference and clean out those minute holes in the throat.
> 
> It's really worth using the OEM carb if possible. An aftermarket will work but you can not use the manual choke with the carb cover which is attractive.
> 
> ...


I fired it up yesterday and the muffler sounded quite reasonable. Less noise than my factory HSS928. So I would say this muffler is a good option.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

As I promised, here is a picture of the completed and reassembled HS50. I have nick named her Irene, because she has been old and cantankerous just like granny off of the Beverly hillbillies who was played by Irene Ryan I believe. I broke off more bolts disassembling this machine than I did on my International tractor. In the end she runs just fine, and hopefully will for years.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Toon said:


> As I promised, here is a picture of the completed and reassembled HS50. I have nick named her Irene, because she has been old and cantankerous just like granny off of the Beverly hillbillies who was played by Irene Ryan I believe. I broke off more bolts disassembling this machine than I did on my International tractor. In the end she runs just fine, and hopefully will for years.
> View attachment 179459


beautiful work


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Looks great, thanks for the thorough and detailed description and photos of the restoration.

Perhaps a more fitting name for the finished machine would be Ellie May or Donna (Douglas) who played Ellie on the Beverly Hillbillies, what a sweet heart.


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## Northeast Dave (Apr 29, 2020)

Toon said:


> As I promised, here is a picture of the completed and reassembled HS50. I have nick named her Irene, because she has been old and cantankerous just like granny off of the Beverly hillbillies who was played by Irene Ryan I believe. I broke off more bolts disassembling this machine than I did on my International tractor. In the end she runs just fine, and hopefully will for years.
> View attachment 179459


Very nice, but just one pic? Let us geek out on your work a bit. Looks great, we’ll be waiting for an update on how well it works after the first snowfall, maybe some action shots?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Northeast Dave said:


> Very nice, but just one pic? Let us geek out on your work a bit. Looks great, we’ll be waiting for an update on how well it works after the first snowfall, maybe some action shots?


since yours is still apart maybe install an impeller kit. easy with impeller out. i just put one in my 80 and it makes a pretty good difference. had one on another 80 and sold it.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Northeast Dave said:


> Very nice, but just one pic? Let us geek out on your work a bit. Looks great, we’ll be waiting for an update on how well it works after the first snowfall, maybe some action shots?


Here you go Dave. Meet Donna.








Back








Back left











Chute









Front








Auger housing









Front right








Left side








Right side


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## Northeast Dave (Apr 29, 2020)

Toon said:


> Here you go Dave. Meet Donna.
> View attachment 179481
> 
> Back
> ...


Nice work, and thanks for posting more pix. As a fellow 50 owner I love checking out rebuilds of them.
Did you rework the existing skid mount or just use different skid shoes, they’re poly, right?
Again, beautiful work, thanks for sharing.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

Northeast Dave said:


> Nice work, and thanks for posting more pix. As a fellow 50 owner I love checking out rebuilds of them.
> Did you rework the existing skid mount or just use different skid shoes, they’re poly, right?
> Again, beautiful work, thanks for sharing.


I painted the white on the skid shoes and sanded the black area to remove previous red paint. Yes they are poly.








As found








Painted and sanded.


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