# 3-stage Vortex... any opinions?



## d3500ram

Anyone have any experience or comment on the 3-stage Troy-Bilt Vortex snowblowers?
I need to have a back-up plan to my current one which is being held together with bailing wire and lok-tite (LOL.)

I can get a 357CC TB Vortex for just under 1K but am not too familiar with the 3 stage models.

thanks.


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## 10953

i haven't seen one stand up yet, the 3 stage is a MTD thing they use across the all the lines as a grab fetcher. put a screw in the middle of the auger call it a 3 stage
IMMO
spend that coin for a NON box store machine, for a grand a real dealer can put you into a nice reliable long running 2 stage machine


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## unknown1

I did some research on that just this last week as part of a Craftsman thread.
I believe it is probably the same machine as the Craftsman in the link below ( sears just re-label machines )
You may want to compare and confirm that they are basically the same.

Check out this bad review from Labguy1 saying the front accelerator is "worthless" and that the whole machine is "almost worthless". He wanted to return it.
Scroll down near the bottom to see the review from Labguy1
Also see the review from Looncamp who agrees with Labguy1 and adds other complaints

Craftsman 28" 357cc https://www.searsoutlet.com/28-357c.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=147226&mode=seeAll

This is probably the machine you are talking about...

Troy Bilt 26" 357 cc http://www.troybilt.com/equipment/troybilt/vortex%E2%84%A2-2890-snow-thrower-vortex-2890

If you find a Troy Bilt and a Craftsman 3-stage with the SAME engine size and Auger width... they will probably look the same or very similar
Maybe different colors and subtle machine-stamping difference on the auger bucket... but basically the same.
The reason is they are ALL made by MTD

That can give you a handy way to find reviews for the "same" machine across all the different brand labels. 
I would certainly check the reviews from nearly-identical models over the past* few years *to see what people *really *think after trying them for a *season or two*.
Too many happy reviews show up long before the owners have really had a chance to use them properly and to see how they last over time.

Trouble is, the manufacturer is able to dodge the bad reviews by simply switching model numbers (without substantially changing the machine). It's all a game IMO.
This makes it easy for them to take the bad reviews off-line by claiming the machine is "no longer available". In fact it may just have a new model number and not changed in any meaningful way.

I could send you over to the stuff I posted on Craftsman thread... instead.. just notice that any positive review from Houston or Florida must be bogus or useless... they get no snow!!


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## Kiss4aFrog

I'd be looking at a new Toro or Ariens or a used Honda. There is nothing wrong with the 3 stage units that I've seen in any of the posts but it seems more hype than actual performance. I tend to believe that my 70's vintage Ariens, Craftsman or JD will do just as well as that new 3 stage.

:2cents:


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## 10953

if it's a box store brand it's a more likely a re branded MTD, even if it's not a mtd, likely it's a lower quality model of a name brand made to sell in the box store at a lower price,less features 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTD_Products


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## unknown1

Here's one for sale locally on Craigslist.. you have to wonder why
https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/d/craftsman-pro-series-snow/6292565703.html


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## 10953

stuart80112 said:


> Here's one for sale locally on Craigslist.. you have to wonder why
> https://denver.craigslist.org/tls/d/craftsman-pro-series-snow/6292565703.html


maybe because they don't work as stated, forget about digging though a wet slushy snow plow bank 

i'm in jersey's snow belt, sussex county on top of one of the two ski area's,1420 feet elevation,nothing like in CO, but we see snow from early oct to early may some years, my toro keeps going though what ever i throw at it with out having to carry a pocket full of tools and shear bolts


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## unknown1

87 powershift said:


> maybe because they don't work as stated.... with out having to carry a pocket full of tools and shear bolts


Yes the shear bolt issue got me wondering a couple of weeks ago. They tell us something about the parts they are trying to protect. In this case it's the accelerator (aka front propeller) , augers & auger gearbox and impeller. Depending on which ones keep breaking (as stated in the reviews) it makes me conclude... if they need such a sensitive fail-fast shear bolt... the protected part must be weak. I guess it's possible that the people talking about the shear bolts are constantly trapping obstacles.. but I doubt if they'd complain in that case... they'd be grateful not complaining.


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## 10953

how correct, MTD and others fail to use better hardened gears in the auger gear case,to over come the weakness they use shear bolts or shear pins with push pins to hold them in. 
it's a good thing one way but surely a rpit? when out in a bad snow storm trying to replace them only to remember one forgot to garb more spares and resorts to a 5/16 or 3/8th bolt laying around then tears up the auger gear box


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## unknown1

87 powershift said:


> how correct, MTD and others fail to use better hardened gears in the auger gear case,to over come the weakness they use shear bolts or shear pins with push pins to hold them in.
> it's a good thing one way but surely a rpit? when out in a bad snow storm trying to replace them only to remember one forgot to garb more spares and resorts to a 5/16 or 3/8th bolt laying around then tears up the auger gear box


Well yes...but... auger gearboxes have had a weak brass gear for decades on many (not all) machines. However, they have never broken at a rate of 14 shear pins per season in the past like some of the reviewers are saying. There's something about these machines that is much weaker than ever before in the past. Just by looking at the photos of these machines, the whole bucket area looks like a glorified tin soup can. I wish the reviewers would say WHICH shear pins are failing by the dozen....that way we could tell which parts are the weakest link. There's nothing wrong per-se with a brass auger gear (at least not the ones for the past 3 or 4 decades). One other possibility is that they are simply putting in the wrong shear pins/bolts... who really knows unless you are the person switching 14 shear bolts per season. In any case.. there seems to be something amiss with these machines.


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## sscotsman

stuart80112 said:


> Well yes...but... auger gearboxes have had a weak brass gear for decades on many (not all) machines. However, they have never broken at a rate of 14 shear pins per season in the past like some of the reviewers are saying. There's something about these machines that is much weaker than ever before in the past.


For comparision, I have been using my 1971 Ariens for Ten consecutive winters now, in Western NY between Buffalo and Rochester, one of the heavest snow belts in North America.

I have not yet, ever, broken one single shear pin.

and yes, they are proper shear pins! I made sure of it when I bought it by getting the correct real Ariens shear pins.

Scot


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## d3500ram

> I'd be looking at a new Toro or Ariens or a used Honda. ...


OP here-
It is often said "go big or go home." I have been researching, reading and upping my budget. I think I will get a new Honda. 
I just need to decide on which size Honda to get... it will be either the 28" (HSS928ATD) or the 32" (HSS1332ATD) track model.

Am going to use the current Craftsman until it craps out. I posted on another thread here about how I did some significant damage to it: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...50-shear-bolts-did-not-shear-when-needed.html

I like that the Honda's that I am considering have the auger protection technology as well as the variable auger height for easier use on a gravel driveway. I have a slight incline and the tracks should do well on it- my previous blowers had chains on 'em and I still had some traction issues.


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## unknown1

d3500ram said:


> .. it will be either the 28" (HSS928ATD) or the 32" (HSS1332ATD) track model....


I guess you've seen the "Honda Ground Speed" thread??
Check post #6 for the HSS1332ATD
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/102138-ground-speed.html


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## d3500ram

Wow! thanks for that info... just read it on my lunch break. Not sure what to think now.


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## unknown1

d3500ram said:


> Wow! thanks for that info... just read it on my lunch break. Not sure what to think now.


You're welcome! 
The search capability on this site can be a little clunky but it works.. before spending thousands... try going to the top level of the Honda forum and then doing a search for each of the two model numbers.
When it says "find threads" or "find posts" you can choose "find posts" to cut to the chase and find posts that specifically mention the model number.
Who knows what else you'll find? ;-)


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## d3500ram

stuart80112 said:


> ...
> Who knows what else you'll find? ;-)


You make that sound ominous... almost as if I will find more disheartening information.

Ironic is the videos on the Honda website about these track models... I had to call a co-worker over and ask him why the setting seemed so familiar... they were filmed about a mile from where I live!!


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## unknown1

d3500ram said:


> You make that sound ominous... almost as if I will find more disheartening information. Ironic is the videos on the Honda website about these track models... I had to call a co-worker over and ask him why the setting seemed so familiar... they were filmed about a mile from where I live!!


Haha... didn't mean to scare you  Anyway.. it's only disheartening if you do the search AFTER you've spent the cash and then kick yourself later for not checking. 
I'm sure you'll find lots of wonderfully happy proud owners with no problems at all... maybe... ;-) 
I just happened to be reading the ground speed thread last night so it was fresh in my memory.. thought I'd better check it for you.

Hey.. it's interesting that the videos were shot near your home and you recognized it subliminally... I was thinking of driving up into the mountains to check out the fall colors but I think I've missed them.... they are usually a bit underwhelming here in Colorado anyway .. the aspens turn yellow for 30 seconds then the leaves drop and that's the end of autumn. If you blink you can miss it. ;-)


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## d3500ram

Yea... leaf peeping is all but over. The recent snows shook a lot of the remaining Aspen. The elk are moving and bugling. We had some 10-14" up here in Summit County and a lot of power outage issues Sunday night into Monday morning. Had another 4" or so last night but it is melting pretty good- the peaks are covered and do not envision that going away in the yet to come Indian Summer which might last another week or so.


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## unknown1

So did you notice the three sets of issues mentioned on that Honda ground-speed thread for various models and various serial numbers?

1) Transmissions that only run at 50% of their normal speed. In at least one case, Honda approved the installation of a vent kit... apparently cheap to supply but expensive to fit. Other members are questioning the need for a different high reservoir. Certainly there are several people all making the same complaint.
2) Chutes that clog and some members are even suggesting "fixes" where they try to take parts off the machine presumably to clear the area and reduce blockages.
3) Auger handles that are supposed to lock to allow you to use your right hand for something else.. but the lock fails. Only applies to some serial numbers and Honda have a replacement part to solve that.

This is why I suggested doing the forum search to find possible problems before spending several thousands of dollars. Forewarned is forearmed.
I didn't feel good telling the guy who was all excited about his new machine.. but at least he can now look out for the issue and make Honda fix it if it happens... if they _can _fix it.
It will be interesting to see if Robert replies to my question or not. Honda Motors are predicting several billion $s in profit for the year.. so the Honda family as a whole can afford to fix these issues.

Meanwhile.. I'll go back to saving more 40 year old classics at $50 a pop. ;-)


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## d3500ram

Yep, all information (good or bad) in my opinion is a good thing. I will do some more reading... I have my current one that is still a working tool, but I am frustrated with dealing with it year after year. 

I kinda' resigned myself to a Honda (perhaps based solely on past good reputation) to maybe comfort my frustration fears of attempting to purchase the most hassle-free machine. I still have time before I buy, but maybe it might be another brand. This site has too much information (if there is such a thing) that it can be overwhelming in trying to take it all in .


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## unknown1

d3500ram said:


> ...I kinda' resigned myself to a Honda (perhaps based solely on past good reputation)...


Maybe that's your answer.. get an older used Honda with a solid reputation and proven track record even if it's a "basic" friction disc transmission. Easier to maintain and easier to fix. Save some dollars too. I'm a big believer in the KISS approach ("keep it simple stupid"). Let someone else buy the latest models with their apparent bugs.
EDIT: There's several on Craigslist right now in our area.. including one with hydro transmission in Silverthorne/Dillon if you want to go that route.


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## 10953

the shear pins i see breaking by me are the 2 for the auger. guy across from me has a troy built has them snap simply trying to get though the plow banks .last year was a light winter still he lost 10 . had to resort to a 5/16th grade 3 bolt on a sunday and stripped/broke the gear box now he has a honda with a payment book 
main reason builders use them is they don't have hardened gears in the auger boxes like more non box store names


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## sscotsman

87 powershift said:


> the shear pins i see breaking by me are the 2 for the auger. guy across from me has a troy built has them snap simply trying to get though the plow banks .last year was a light winter still he lost 10 . had to resort to a 5/16th grade 3 bolt on a sunday and stripped/broke the gear box now he has a honda with a payment book
> main reason builders use them is they don't have hardened gears in the auger boxes like more non box store names


Im sure this has already been mentioned, but the light-bulb just went off for me..
It would seem the reason these MTD (Troy-Bilt, Cub Cadet, and others) shear pins break so often is that the shear pins are intentionally designed to be very weak, because the gearbox is so weak. So a very week and poor quality gearbox needs very weak shearbolts to protect it..Which explains breaking ten Troy-Bilt shear bolts in a season.

seems obvious now!  but I honestly never made that connection until now.
As I said before, I have never once broken a single shear pin in my 1971 Ariens, with nine winters of use in Western NY..So to me, that is "normal"..So when I keep hearing of people breaking ten shear pins in one winter, I think "there is something wrong there..but what? its not normal, but I dont know what could be causing it..its mysterious.."

It didnt occur to me that breaking ten shear pins in a season on a MTD is *by design*! ..huh..

Scot


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## unknown1

sscotsman said:


> Im sure this has already been mentioned, but the light-bulb just went off for me..
> It would seem the reason these MTD (Troy-Bilt, Cub Cadet, and others) shear pins break so often is that the shear pins are intentionally designed to be very weak, because the gearbox is so weak. So a very week and poor quality gearbox needs very weak shearbolts to protect it..Which explains breaking ten Troy-Bilt shear bolts in a season.
> 
> seems obvious now!  but I honestly never made that connection until now.
> As I said before, I have never once broken a single shear pin in my 1971 Ariens, with nine winters of use in Western NY..So to me, that is "normal"..So when I keep hearing of people breaking ten shear pins in one winter, I think "there is something wrong there..but what? its not normal, but I dont know what could be causing it..its mysterious.."
> 
> It didnt occur to me that breaking ten shear pins in a season on a MTD is *by design*! ..huh..
> 
> Scot


Yes that's what's been bugging me about the shear pin issue... I knew in post #8 it would tell us WHAT is weak on the machine... but we needed to know WHICH shear pins were breaking to figure that out. So now we finally know! It appears to be (at least) the gearbox. Thanks for that data 87 Powershift!!

On my colonoscopy thread.. I was so keen to find an external way to make deductions about the engines that I allowed my brain to believe I'd found it. The logic was right but the final conclusion was wrong. 

Even so.... weak auger gearboxes are almost as bad and are a very expensive repair. If you repair them with like-for-like brass gears.. the repaired gearbox will be just as vulnerable as the one that broke in the first place so you'd be right back where you started with another weak gearbox. Not a good situation.


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## unknown1

87 powershift said:


> the shear pins i see breaking by me are the 2 for the auger. guy across from me has a troy built has them snap simply trying to get though the plow banks .last year was a light winter still he lost 10 . had to resort to a 5/16th grade 3 bolt on a sunday and stripped/broke the gear box.....


Can you do us a favor and find out the exact model number of the Troy Bilt that your neighbor had please? I'm trying to get to the exact part number for the gearbox. By implication... ANY machine with that exact gearbox is subject to the same risk. This will allow us to cross-reference lots of different brands and models and warn people about the MTD machines with the SAME gearbox. It will also be good to know if your machine has the SAME gearbox since you have a similar shear-pin issue. We can figure that out by knowing your exact model number.


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## Dauntae

One thing I have noticed with sheer pins is some seem to break a LOT and others rarely if ever using the same machines. What I have seen repairing them is most that say they go through pins (One person in particular comes to mind now) But it seems the ones I worked on that break a lot are the people trying to rush and my guess is there pushing there machines into the hard pack too fast. The person I am thinking of actually had the issue with a 22" MTD then they got a Ariens compact 24" and wouldn't you know it, they go through tons of sheer pins on that one too. I think people may need to learn how to use there machines without pushing them beyond the limits of the machine.


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## 98234

I have a Troy-bilt 26 vortex, 2 years. I’ve had no issues so far....broke one shear pin when I ran into a concrete step. Live in Halifax Nova Scotia, and get heavy wet snow....large snow banks from the plows...then add some rain and temp drops....concrete. ..and have had no issues so far. I did do a light upgrade to 2 LED lamps which helped a lot. I have plugged through 40-50 inches plus plow banks..with no problems..just need to go high , then low...to cut through...slush is better with this machine than the several others I’ve owned/operated in the past. It’s been ok cutting up the ice chunks the plows push into the snow banks. I did find it light up front so added a weight over the front....but that’s mostly for when it’s pouring rain ... as I bought a cab for those days...and felt it needed a counter weight. My 2 cent opinion.


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## 10953

sscotsman said:


> Im sure this has already been mentioned, but the light-bulb just went off for me..
> It would seem the reason these MTD (Troy-Bilt, Cub Cadet, and others) shear pins break so often is that the shear pins are intentionally designed to be very weak, because the gearbox is so weak. So a very week and poor quality gearbox needs very weak shearbolts to protect it..Which explains breaking ten Troy-Bilt shear bolts in a season.
> 
> seems obvious now!  but I honestly never made that connection until now.
> As I said before, I have never once broken a single shear pin in my 1971 Ariens, with nine winters of use in Western NY..So to me, that is "normal"..So when I keep hearing of people breaking ten shear pins in one winter, I think "there is something wrong there..but what? its not normal, but I dont know what could be causing it..its mysterious.."
> 
> It didnt occur to me that breaking ten shear pins in a season on a MTD is *by design*! ..huh..
> 
> Scot


late reply scot

think you are 100% right, 
the mtd pins have a double reduction grove in the pin, the design breaks from shearing action of the auger plus side ways torque at the groves, for fun i held one in a vise using vise grips applied a sideways thrust, real easy to snap right at the groves jammed a nut onto it, snap from too much torque 

my new toro in the accessory listing has a shear bolt kit # 133-2576 listed as auger pin bolt kit , 4 special grade 5 shear bolts, 4 bushings and 4 lock nuts in each for $7.14 kit yet you almost never hear of them snapping


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## Wrecked

... now whoa down there fellow campers! I'm about 2/3rds of the way through season 2 with my 3 stage Troy Bilt Vortex (26 inch with electric chute, heated grips) and aside from needing to replace the auger drive belt a bit sooner than I figgered, it has and still is clearing snow like a champ, even with the worn belt. We tend to get a lotta ice stratified into layers yet this machine launches the whole works clear across into my neighbours yard which makes me giggle like a little girl sometimes. I reckon a man is often judged by the size of his ... er, snow arc, and my wife and former sweetheart says my snow arc is mighty impressive! :devil:

I have used only 2 of the original shear pins and have hit submerged planters, fence posts, trees and branches and the occasional frozen corpse, yet most times the pins hold up just fine even with a madman at the helm. So does the auger gear case, even though it must surely be doing more than is rational sometimes. I just about fell over looking at some of the criticisms posted here, but I will admit that's likely down to a chronic lack of oxygen getting to my brain. The chute control switch sometimes freezes but that's my fault really. Even after riding it hard and putting it away wet in a cold shed it easily frees up and goes to work again.

I am quite pleased with this machine in fact. No complaints so far.


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## d3500ram

OP here... been a while since resounding to this thread because I ended up purchasing an Ariens Platinum Pro 28 SHO. While there are some disappointments in that model, I do like it power. I think because it has decent power is perhaps a reason why I complain of trying to keep it on track. My critique of that Ariens is posted here-> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...scussion/124770-ariens-my-$2-000-mistake.html

I do not know what the largest displacement motors that Troy makes, but for my needs, the Troy that I was considering I feel would be under powered for the snows that I get. I have thus far had an unimpressive snow amount this year but despite the faults of the Ariens, I cannot complain about its power... I just wish it would track straight and was easier to control.


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## VirginIASnow

I have the 2890 Vortex. I recently broke the front pin due to striking a tire on my small trailer. I like the three stage, but I think my previous two stage did a cleaner job. The three stage does better at the road where the plow creates the wall. The power steering is great and is now a must have for me. I added a 1/8 x 1" flat bar to the base of my shoes to prevent the shoes from digging into the gravel or scraping the concrete walk. It needs a light at the front to aid in cleaning a clogged auger at night. It is incredibly fast in forward but reverse is real slow and I only use it on a slippery slope or when I start to tire. I might look into modding the reverse gear speed somehow. [Edit- I increased my rear speed by adjusting the cam where the cable is attached. See photo.] Engine is quiet, powerful, and starts on first pull, even after seasonal storage.


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## Kiss4aFrog

VirginIA, there is usually some adjustment where you can move the friction disc further away from the center of the drive disc on the reverse side speeding up both reverse gears. By doing so you will slow down all the forward speeds but that's the compromise. You need to make sure that you don't get F1 too close to the center of the disc and you lose first altogether.



.


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## VirginIASnow

Come to think of it, my chute probably clogged less than the two stage did in the past. Here's the promo video.

https://youtu.be/0ayS9UDp47I


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## PaulMys

Kiss4aFrog said:


> VirginIA, there is usually some adjustment where you can move the friction disc further away from the center of the drive disc on the reverse side speeding up both reverse gears. By doing so you will slow down all the forward speeds but that's the compromise. You need to make sure that you don't get F1 too close to the center of the disc and you lose first altogether.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgHH_Tcufx4





I did just that on my TB 3090. 


Tipped it up on the housing, removed the pan, and actuated the shift and adjusted accordingly until I found the sweet spot with the absolute lowest 1st gear and resulting in slightly faster reverse speeds.


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## BuffaloBob

I also own the Vortex 2890, purchased in October 2017. It was great the first season powering through everything. However, this year was a different story. I first started having problems getting bogged down in wet heavy snow. Then it started breaking shear pins like they were nothing at all. 

After surfing the net extensively, calling Troy-Bilt and speaking to a local repair shop I concluded the problem was the auger belt. I purchased a new belt and pins at a local BB store, making sure I had the right part numbers, and when I took the old belt off the problem was apparent. There was a significantly worn spot on the belt with dry rot. What I surmise was happening was that the belt was slipping violently under load causing the augers to slip in and out of rotation rapidly ultimately breaking the bolts, causing a rattling sound to come from the front of the machine. As for the worn spot, the belt is likely worn for two reasons, 1.) the way the belts is designed to be used by the machine is in very close proximity to a constantly spinning set of pulleys, creating excessive wear there. and 2.) once I hit the heavy wet snow in the first snow of the second season that weak spot on the belt was burned up when the machine hung up on the heavy snow. NOTE: I don't think the machine would have hung up on that snow if the belt hadn't already been damaged from the previous season.

After changing the belt and putting in new bolts no more weak snow throwing or broken shear pins. I tried the machine in heavy ice and snow and it battled though liked the first season. So I suspect I may have to change the belt each season.

I should mention that Troy-Bilt was of no help at all in pinpointing the problem, and even though there are multiple reports on the net of broken shear pins with these machines they wouldn't share with me what the likely problem is or was, even though I suspect they know it's a design issue regarding how the auger belt is engaged and disengaged.

So if you either have a weak snow throwing and/or snapping or breaking shear pins... replace the auger belt and see how that changes the machine's performance.


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## Kiss4aFrog

:welcome: to SBF BuffaloBob

Thanks for the info.

.


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