# Vintage Toro 826 gearbox leak



## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Hi guys,

FYI, last winter I did a write up on my 1977 826's gearbox oil change:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...-826-auger-gearbox-fluid-change-pictures.html


Anywho, when I did the routine check up for this winter upon removing the 826 from summer storage in the shed (did an engine oil change, tire pressure and spark plug check, gearbox oil check), I noticed that some of the gear oil added last winter was missing. I added some through the drain plug and left the machine in the garage until today, a day after this year's first snow storm.

In any case, upon inspecting the machine, I noticed that a small amount of gear oil has dripped onto the garage floor. It doesn't seem to be coming from the drain plug, as I wiped it clean after adding oil two weeks ago and it's still dry. I do, however, see droplets of oil forming at the bottom of the gear box case.

Any ideas on where this could be coming from (common leak points)? I'm thinking that the driveshaft seal is possibly leaking, or the seals from the auger shaft (I haven't taken a closer look, as visibility is very restricted in there). 

I wonder what to do with this? Take it apart and replace gaskets, if new gasket kits even still available? Put in thicker gear oil that hopefully won't leak? I noticed that the gearbox casing seems to be held together by bolts... I'm gonna try to tighten those first, perhaps (maybe they got loose over time?).


*Note:* the "leak" is actually a very slow drip from oil droplets forming at the bottom of the cast iron gearbox case... and it dripped on the floor even though the auger was never engaged. Thanks in advance!


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

762mm said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I noticed that the gearbox casing seems to be held together by bolts... I'm gonna try to tighten those first, perhaps (maybe they got loose over time?).


that's where I'd start. My '89 service manual says that they should be torqued to 120in-lbs. 

here's the tightening sequence:


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion and pic!

Last time I had a similar issue was on my parents' 1997 Nissan Pathfinder. The valve cover bolts rattled themselves so loose that the truck would be pissing engine oil on the exhaust and burning it... it looked like the engine was on fire, lol! 

Tightening the bolts fixed the problem on the Nissan. Hopefully, the Toro will be the same (I love cheap fixes, lol!).



*Question:* how do you tighten the bolts in the back of the gearbox case? Do you need to take off the auger? (I'm not near the machine right now, but I believe access is very restricted back there from what I remember)


...


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

You are going to have to overhaul the gear case. there BROTHER 762.k:k:k:k:k:


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> You are going to have to overhaul the gear case. there BROTHER 762.k:k:k:k:k:


Overhaul, as in new gaskets/seals? (where does one even get the kit for a 1977 machine these days?)


I was kind of afraid of that.... let me try to tighten the case bolts first, lol!


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Check to make sure the model number is correct. 

Toro Model 31763.

https://lookup3.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro&lang=us_en

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/51-0460/

Shryp put a link to the Toro 2 stage service manual here.

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...toro-two-stage-snowblower-service-manual.html


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Thanks for the links, *bwdbrn1*! 

I'm located in Canada, so probably won't be able to order these anyway... but having part numbers is a good start. Maybe a local dealer would have them, if new parts actually end up being needed.

The one question I've been asking myself is: how important is it to have a gear case full of oil at all times? My driveway is not that big and my normal snow removal operation with the Toro takes approx. 15-20 minutes. Plus when I changed the gear oil last winter, I've found a brown goo-ish liquid in the gear case that seemed to have been there for decades, yet no damage was done to the gears in years, it seems. See the link in my post #1 for pictures.

It's not like it heats up like a truck's diff/rear end due to excessive friction or anything... so perhaps it's not that crucial to have it full?


In any case, I'm gonna try to figure out a way to fix it without taking it apart for now and see if it helps. The other option is to keep adding a bit of fluid every few weeks. Not how I like to roll, but it may come to that...


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

https://www.partstree.com/parts/toro/parts/7-0045/

you would also need three of these oil seals


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Others here will rightfully disagree with this advice, as it's not what the manual says for that vintage. If I were you I'd consider replacing all the 90 weight oil with 00 grease. I'm not sure where you get this stuff in Canada, but here is an example of the grease I am suggesting.
NAPA AUTO PARTS


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

dbert said:


> Others here will rightfully disagree with this advice, as it's not what the manual says for that vintage. If I were you I'd consider replacing all the 90 weight oil with 00 grease. I'm not sure where you get this stuff in Canada, but here is an example of the grease I am suggesting.
> NAPA AUTO PARTS



Thanks. I think it actually had something similar in the gear case before I swapped it for the 90 weight oil last winter. Maybe the leaking gearbox was a well known problem to the previous owner and the heavier grease was his solution...?

Thicker grease is much less likely to leak, after all... I think I'll try to see what can be done about the leak from the outside first (tighten the bolts, etc) and then take it from there. I paid $160 for the whole machine last year, so I'm not really inclined to be dropping $100+ in parts just to fix a minor leak... at least not yet. The seals, gasket, bushings and shipping to where I am will certainly add up quickly. Our sucky Canadian dollar and outrageous delivery costs most businesses charge make you think twice about having to order parts from the US, unfortunately.


In the past, I've had excellent luck sealing/repairing leaky gaskets with automotive liquid gaskets (the ones used on most modern cars instead of actual gasket kits). I'd "rebuild" some old worn out gaskets and their mating points with it, effectively stopping oil or water leaks. That too could be a possibility for my Toro's gear box... well, maybe (depends where the leak is).


:huh:


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm not sure when this pourable grease became the thing to use in many snowblower gearboxes, but the remnants of what you drained out appears (to me) to be a small amount of oil mixed with a small amount of some water to give it that creamy look.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

dbert said:


> I'm not sure when this pourable grease became the thing to use in many snowblower gearboxes, but the remnants of what you drained out appears (to me) to be a small amount of oil mixed with a small amount of some water to give it that creamy look.



I think the water puddles you see in it dripped from the insides of the auger, as the machine was used to blow snow the previous day. This is what I don't really get: the thing was low on gear oil for some time (years, maybe?) and what came out couldn't be much of a lubricant, yet the gear box never suffered any apparent damage (it blows snow like new). Can one get away with not having proper lubrication in there for so long?


The stuff that came out was very thick, molasses-like... definitely thicker than any gear oil I've seen. It had the consistency of peanut butter after it's been left out on the counter on a hot summer day, lol.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

My opinion. When a certain gearset has ran together for a length of time they will work better with their lifelong mate. 
You may have actually gotten away with just a slight amount of lubrication from the couple teaspoons of creamy peanut butter that was remaining. 
I had a couple tubes of this.triple zero grease I not only put it in my old Craftsman driftbreaker gearbox that was leaking. I put it in my near and dear machine that I would never typically "experiment" with. When I was actually able to rotate the impeller by turning the augers (back drive in other words that is typically not possible with a worm gear) I decided it must be good stuff.


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## Buttchet (Mar 5, 2013)

I have used 00 grease on many machines now with very good luck the last couple of years. very easy excellent solution that someone on this forum gave me.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Well, I have a friend who will pass by south of the border this week-end and he's going to pick up two bottles of 00 grease at a Tractor Supply store:

Super S Cotton Picker Spindle Grease 00 - For Life Out Here


Hopefully, that will solve the issue. As I said, I don't really do a lot of snow blowing, just 15-20 minutes after every large snowfall, on average.

I looked in the service manual on how to get to the gear box and it's no doozie... you need to take the auger drum off on one side and I suspect it will be a major PITA (the machine is a 1977, after all... so it's probably seized on the shaft). I'll still try to tighten the gear box bolts though.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

762mm said:


> Overhaul, as in new gaskets/seals? (where does one even get the kit for a 1977 machine these days?)
> 
> 
> I was kind of afraid of that.... let me try to tighten the case bolts first, lol!


I can get the gasket and seals 4 that 1. there BROTHER 762


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

762mm said:


> I think the water puddles you see in it dripped from the insides of the auger, as the machine was used to blow snow the previous day. This is what I don't really get: the thing was low on gear oil for some time (years, maybe?) and what came out couldn't be much of a lubricant, yet the gear box never suffered any apparent damage (it blows snow like new). Can one get away with not having proper lubrication in there for so long?
> 
> 
> The stuff that came out was very thick, molasses-like... definitely thicker than any gear oil I've seen. It had the consistency of peanut butter after it's been left out on the counter on a hot summer day, lol.


 I would only use 80/90 weight gear oil. and not the syn stuff either. that is what is speced out by TORO.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> I can get the gasket and seals 4 that 1. there BROTHER 762


Thank you, I'll keep that in mind brother Powershift93! (in case I need a plan B!)




The machine used to have some thick molasses-like gear oil in it already and ran fine for the previous guy, with no visible leaks. I hate to go out of spec myself too, but tough problems sometimes call for unusual solutions. I'm not even sure if I can get to the gearbox to take it apart, with that drum most likely seized...




*P.S.* I've never found a belt cover or rear cover for this sucker... so I'm blowing snow "Mad Max" style again this year, lol! (with both covers missing and pulleys/gears exposed)


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

762mm said:


> Thank you, I'll keep that in mind brother Powershift93! (in case I need a plan B!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the only way you will ever know. is to get down and dirty and find out.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> the only way you will ever know. is to get down and dirty and find out.


:bestpost:


True... can't argue with that, lol!


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I was looking at one of these in person today. Is there any other walk behind snowblower with a bigger impeller? These things are massive beasts.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

dbert said:


> I was looking at one of these in person today. Is there any other walk behind snowblower with a bigger impeller? These things are massive beasts.


 why do think they are still roaming this earth. they last forever.:wavetowel2:


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

762mm said:


> :bestpost:
> 
> 
> True... can't argue with that, lol!


 Remember it's not just a job, IT'S an adventure. BROTHER 762.:wavetowel2:


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

i have a 726 i have not gotten to try yet but it looks like a beast. huge impeller drum augers and since its an older model it has a cast iron gearbox unlike the 826, otherwise the same thing


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> Remember it's not just a job, IT'S an adventure. BROTHER 762.:wavetowel2:


Trust me, I've got enough adventures around the house to take care of... including some adventures the family wants me to take care of for them as well. :smiley-confused009:

I just received two bottles of 00 grease from a friend that just came back from south of the border. I'll tighten those gearbox bolts and give the 00 grease a try first. It was ice cold when he handed it over to me (was in the trunk of his car over the weekend and the temperatures dropped like a mofo on Sunday) and yet it was still nice and semi-liquid in the bottle - actually, it looks kind of like heavy gun grease, lol! Eventually, I might decide to take the gearbox apart and fix it the right way, if problems persist. I checked out the seals and they're $10 each, plus the main gasket and possibly the bushing too (so approx. $50-60 USD in parts altogether for a rebuild... and I probably would have to order in the US, so extra $$$ for shipping from stores).

Before I go and do that, there's probably more pressing issues I'd do to the Toro... like swapping out the main auger bearing, as it is probably running on the original still in there (might be my imagination, but I think I can hear it making grinding noise when the auger is engaged... then again, the whole machine sounds like a WWII tank!).


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## JerryD (Jan 19, 2014)

762mm said:


> Trust me, I've got enough adventures around the house to take care of... including some adventures the family wants me to take care of for them as well. :smiley-confused009:
> 
> I just received two bottles of 00 grease from a friend that just came back from south of the border. I'll tighten those gearbox bolts and give the 00 grease a try first. It was ice cold when he handed it over to me (was in the trunk of his car over the weekend and the temperatures dropped like a mofo on Sunday) and yet it was still nice and semi-liquid in the bottle - actually, it looks kind of like heavy gun grease, lol! Eventually, I might decide to take the gearbox apart and fix it the right way, if problems persist. I checked out the seals and they're $10 each, plus the main gasket and possibly the bushing too (so approx. $50-60 USD in parts altogether for a rebuild... and I probably would have to order in the US, so extra $$$ for shipping from stores).
> 
> Before I go and do that, there's probably more pressing issues I'd do to the Toro... like swapping out the main auger bearing, as it is probably running on the original still in there (might be my imagination, but I think I can hear it making grinding noise when the auger is engaged... then again, the whole machine sounds like a WWII tank!).



The impeller shaft bearing was bad on my Toro 8/32. I used the unit for an entire winter before I replaced the bearing, the next summer. I started the snow blower after replacing the bearing then engaged the auger as a test. I immediately thought I forgot to install the belts...The machine is so smooth now,it's amazing.


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## wfd44 (Nov 10, 2014)

It sounds like a tank because it is one. It's pretty tough to beat a drum auger Toro. 

I bet it won't be as hard to get apart as you may think. That being said I am not so sure I would tear in to it mid season either. I am not so sure I would mess with the )) grease either. 

If it were me, I would snug up the case bolts as best I can, monitor the situation very closely and keep running the 80-90 gear oil Toro specifies. Chances are one of the seals is the source of your leak. If it leaks down to a certain point (below the offending shaft seal) and stops; then the gear case is essentially seeking its own level so to speak. If the leak stops at a certain (safe) point you are running low but not in real danger of running dry. 

I would procure the parts with the intent of making proper repairs in the off season. This machine is worth saving. Missing covers shouldn't be too much of a problem to find either. I am pretty sure I have a belt cover for one of those out in my shed.


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## JerryD (Jan 19, 2014)

wfd44 said:


> It sounds like a tank because it is one. It's pretty tough to beat a drum auger Toro.
> 
> I bet it won't be as hard to get apart as you may think. That being said I am not so sure I would tear in to it mid season either. I am not so sure I would mess with the )) grease either.


It wouldn't be that bad of a job if the unit was only a year or two old but mine was 42 years old when I change the bearing on my snowblower, it took me an entire Sunday and 5 evenings after work to get the shaft out of the bearing. Be sure to give yourself more than enough time.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Thanks for the tips, guys! The temperatures have been so mild here in eastern Canada lately that the gearbox issue has kind of taken the back burner position in lieu of other projects. I will check the gearbox bolts soon though and decide on what I'm gonna do based on my findings. The 00 grease my friend got me seems to be a nice molasses-like compound that's supposed to remain fluid in low temperature conditions, as per the manufacturer's claim. I could see it working nicely in that gear box... especially since it originally held a lubricant of a very similar consistency, probably for many, many years. The leak was probably the reason someone dumped the lighter oil in the first place. As for how much 80W90 leaks out... I approximate about half (so the leak is probably at the shaft seals).

I started another thread on the auger bearing issue, as I had some hard time tracking down the correct part #. Seems like Toro went froma bearing to a bushing, but forgot to include replacement part #'s in their online catalogue.




wfd44 said:


> I would procure the parts with the intent of making proper repairs in the off season. This machine is worth saving. Missing covers shouldn't be too much of a problem to find either. *I am pretty sure I have a belt cover for one of those out in my shed*.



Well, if you ever feel like parting with it, *I would definitely be interested*... the Mad Max / HotRod look with no belt cover on is kinda cool, but the pulleys tend to get quite a bit of snow on them. It hasn't slowed them down yet though, lol!


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

*UPDATE:*

Well, I am happy to report that sometimes it really is the least of all evils! It snowed two days ago and so I obviously decided that the "manliest" thing to do would be to pull the red dragon out of the garage and let it roar while devouring and spitting out the snow! 


Before I did that, I decided to tighten the bolts on the gear box, *which is the very first thing I should've done*... :banghead:

I took a 1/2 wrench (if I remember correctly) and started tightening from the top down. When I got to bolts #4 and #6 in the diagram below (right at the very bottom), they were so loose that it took at least one full turn of the bolt to re-tighten them - I guess they shook themselves loose with vibration over the years or something! I could actually see a small drop of gear oil forming at the bottom of the gearbox, so I wiped it off after tightening everything, refilled the gearbox with 80W90, put an old empty baking pan under the auger and it hasn't dripped since!


Thanks everyone for your input... you guys are awesome!


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

762mm said:


> *UPDATE:*
> 
> Well, I am happy to report that sometimes it really is the least of all evils! It snowed two days ago and so I obviously decided that the "manliest" thing to do would be to pull the red dragon out of the garage and let it roar while devouring and spitting out the snow!
> 
> ...


 MAZEL TOV on that 1.:wavetowel2:


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