# Removing auger/spiral assembly from MTD



## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

Hi, if you've been following my MTD drama, I have an MTD 31AE611D120 that was abused before I got it, and now is severely rusted and beat up. I'd now like to see if I can slide out the whole auger assembly so I can apply some navel jelly to the inside housing and spiral assembly, sand it down, and paint it before the winter comes.

However, I can't figure out how to remove the two pins on 36 in this diagram. Are they allen screws? They are also severely rusted, so I'm unsure if it's even worth it - I don't want to create more problems, and end up having to replace something because I broke it trying to get it out, if it's not already seized together with the assembly.










Thanks for any ideas.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Those should be roll pins, and to get them out properly, you use the proper size roll pin punch. I will include a picture below of a set ... The reason being, a roll pin punch has a tiny spherical end, and it's circumference is just slightly below the hole circumference, this allowing a clean knock out and re-install of the roll pin. You will want to use penetrating oil prior and during removal........ Easy peasy



Amazon.com


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Btw, the impeller should come out on the shaft, and really no need to separate unless you have to for a reason.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

Oneacer said:


> Btw, the impeller should come out on the shaft, and really no need to separate unless you have to for a reason.


okay, terrific. I've ordered the punches for delivery tomorrow and applied some penetrating oil as well. Hopefully it'll work its way in there.

Given that they're located inside of the blower housing, very near the impeller housing, it's going to be tough to get a hammer in there. I suppose I'll try with a steel rod extension, or perhaps it'll be possible to just tap it out more easily than I'm expecting.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i wouldn't even waste time trying. best you just pull the whole auger/impeller assembly out of the bucket. you have to pull the pulley off the shaft but that is usually easy. i would personally leave the roll pins alone unless you absolutely have to mess with them. they are usually a pain to get moving and even if you do get them moving the impeller is usually rusted to the shaft which usually requires torches or a press to break free


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

As I mentioned , removing the impeller would require removing the entire auger assembly from the bucket. Also, as I mentioned, you probably don't want to remove it unless you have an issue. I was under the impression you were removing that assembly ... That set of roll pin punches will come in handy in many situations.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> i wouldn't even waste time trying. best you just pull the whole auger/impeller assembly out of the bucket. you have to pull the pulley off the shaft but that is usually easy. i would personally leave the roll pins alone unless you absolutely have to mess with them. they are usually a pain to get moving and even if you do get them moving the impeller is usually rusted to the shaft which usually requires torches or a press to break free


Okay, that makes sense - but how do I get the entire assembly out that includes the impeller itself?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

You first have to remove the impeller pulley.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

Oneacer said:


> You first have to remove the impeller pulley.


okay, that involves separating the housing from the engine side. I can do that.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yes, that is correct .... Refresh me as to what the problem you are having, in such that you need to break down the bucket assembly.

is it just to paint the I side of the bucket?

getting a little late to be painting outside, but if you have a paint booth indoor, then ok.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

Yes, paint the inside of the bucket and spiral assembly. I coated the rusted parts in navel jelly last night, but would like to protect the bare metal to try and get a few more years out of it.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Are all the shear pins in good shape and easily removable? If not when you have it apart it may be a good time to remove the old ones and install new ones. It is a lot easier to grind and drill out the old ones with the whole assembly out of the bucket than in the bucket. Also if you haven't done it yet this may also be a good time to do the impeller mod. Lot easier to drill the impeller with it out of the machine.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

Do you mean the shear pins on the spiral assembly? I have some new ones to replace what was there. I've also already done the impeller mod. It's easier to drill when it's out, but determining the length would be more difficult. In my case, I couldn't go all the way to the edge because of the way the chute is designed, but I got it close. I had some trouble finding the right rubber material to use, but ended up cutting up an old tire. I won't know until this is all done and can put some oil in the machine to see whether it works or not.

I now have the pulley off, but getting this bearing off looks to be problematic for many people, according to what I've seen on youtube (



)

I'm okay with a bearing puller, but it's too late in the season to start thinking about cutting it off and replacing it. I also don't have a bearing puller, so would have to order it.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Have you started trying to pull the auger assembly off? If you haven't removed the bolts holding the sides removing them sometimes helps so you can just pull it right out.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> Have you started trying to pull the auger assembly off? If you haven't removed the bolts holding the sides removing them sometimes helps so you can just pull it right out.


I've now tried to just pull it out, and it won't. It moves a little, but I suppose it's that bearing that's keeping it from coming all the way out. I've added some WD-40 to try and free the bearing, but I can't get it out. I've also tried hitting it with a hammer on a 2x4, but I don't want to damage the threads or somehow affect the shaft.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

can you push the bearing any father onto the shaft? sometimes if you can get it to move 1 way or the other you can get some lube under it to help make it easier to get out.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> can you push the bearing any father onto the shaft? sometimes if you can get it to move 1 way or the other you can get some lube under it to help make it easier to get out.


Maybe by putting some collar around it, such as a deep socket, then tapping the socket?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i would probably use a punch or chisel or maybe a piece of pipe just the right size since you really want to push on the inner race and not the outer race or casing. you do usually need to put some blocks under the auger to lift the bearing up and out of the hole.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> i would probably use a punch or chisel or maybe a piece of pipe just the right size since you really want to push on the inner race and not the outer race or casing. you do usually need to put some blocks under the auger to lift the bearing up and out of the hole.


I used a pipe that fit just over the shaft and hit it pretty hard - no change. I'm afraid of destroying the $60 bearing. I did put a few 2x4s under the housing to raise the shaft.

Should I try and heat it up with a propane torch?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

if you have to ad heat you will likely need to replace the bearing because it will melt the grease and destroy the seals.

$60 for a bearing seems like a bit much. i guess it depends on how badly you want to paint it.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> if you have to ad heat you will likely need to replace the bearing because it will melt the grease and destroy the seals.
> 
> $60 for a bearing seems like a bit much. i guess it depends on how badly you want to paint it.


I'm still a little confused, and hoped I could ask one more question.

I found the bearing much cheaper, so decided to order it in anticipation of receiving the bearing puller on Mon, but I'm not sure which part to get.

It seems there is a 941-0309, which appears to be the bearing, but all the references also mention a race for the bearing too, but I can't find it in my diagram or picture. Here's the parts diagram with the bearing at #12:











This is a picture of the bearing on my snowblower. The parts diagram doesn't show the axle that goes through the back, so I really don't know which part is the axle and which part is the bearing.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

I have never seen any extra race. The part that comes up with that number looks correct. Maybe they were referring to the outer plate that clamps the bearing in.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

#12 is your bearing, and # 11 is its retainer.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

Oneacer said:


> #12 is your bearing, and # 11 is its retainer.


Yes, I understand that's the retainer, or bearing plate. This is what I ordered:








Amazon.com: Rotary Auger Impeller Bearing Compatible with MTD 941-0309 (W/O Collar) or 941-0310 (with Collar) : Patio, Lawn & Garden


Amazon.com: Rotary Auger Impeller Bearing Compatible with MTD 941-0309 (W/O Collar) or 941-0310 (with Collar) : Patio, Lawn & Garden



www.amazon.com




The first piece is #12 on the diagram, part 941-0309, but what's the second piece, 941-0310? Perhaps that's just not applicable for my MTD?

Here is the same image again. I'm thinking the line in red is part of the shaft. I'm thinking the green line and purple line are all part of the bearing, correct?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

That red ring is the outside of the inner race. That is part of the bearing. The shaft is 3/4" all the way to the gear box


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> That red ring is the outside of the inner race. That is part of the bearing. The shaft is 3/4" all the way to the gear box


okay, got it, thanks. And I should be hitting the inner race to try and get the bearing off, and not the outside part of the bearing, correct?

Is there a woodruff key that I should be concerned with too? There doesn't seem to be one listed in the parts diagram.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes you should of been trying to hit the inner race to remove it. There is no key needed. The end of the shaft is splined on the older machines which do the exact same job as a key. On newer machines they use a DD shaft just like the 1 I posted a picture of.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> Yes you should of been trying to hit the inner race to remove it. There is no key needed. The end of the shaft is splined on the older machines which do the exact same job as a key. On newer machines they use a DD shaft just like the 1 I posted a picture of.


Okay, new problem. First I tried with a bearing puller, but it wouldn't work because of the bolts that come out of the housing to hold the bearing plate.

Then I tried with a flywheel puller, but it won't work because there's not enough space between the housing and the bottom of the bearing to fit the three legs under.

What's next? Again, this is an MTD 31AE611D120

There must be another way to do this without having to cut it out?


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

You can borrow two pickle forks from your local auto parts store , and make easy work of it.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

RIT333 said:


> You can borrow two pickle forks from your local auto parts store , and make easy work of it.


Yes, interesting - pry it off. But I'm almost thinking I would need another person to hold the housing down while I pry on it, or it'll just lift up the other side, right?

I suppose the other approach is to put a pipe over the bearing and pound on it, right? Could that put me in a worse position than I'm already in?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

since your replacing it you could try heating up the inner race. clearly there must be something holding it on there.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

crazzywolfie said:


> since your replacing it you could try heating up the inner race. clearly there must be something holding it on there.


Okay, this time I also ordered a pickle bar kit from amazon. Will heating it with propane be enough? Perhaps I can heat it with propane and try to pry it off at the same time.

Thank you all so much. This is a fun project.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

a propane torch should be enough to hopefully break it free, just make sure to focus on the inner race and try to keep away from the shaft.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I use the Map Pro gas, yellow cylinder, works better than propane.

You could not borrow a bearing puller? The split one that bolts around underneath, and then the fork holds two bolts and draws it off using the shaft as counter force.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

Oneacer said:


> I use the Map Pro gas, yellow cylinder, works better than propane.


I only have a basic propane torch, and don't generally have a need for anything more.



> You could not borrow a bearing puller? The split one that bolts around underneath, and then the fork holds two bolts and draws it off using the shaft as counter force.


The problem was the three bolts that come up from the inside of the housing to hold the bearing plate on - it made it impossible to get it under the bearing because those bolts were in the way.

I also tried a flywheel puller, but that failed because there's really very little space between the top of the housing and the bottom of the bearing.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

So the pickle bar didn't work. The area between the purple lines is raised up enough that I couldn't get the bar in there flush with the bottom of the housing. This caused the tips of the bar to be pointed into the inside of the housing, making it very difficult to get under it and use the bottom of the housing as the base for trying to lever it out. I also tried to heat it up, but I don't think my propane torch was powerful enough.










After all that failed, I bought and used an angle grinder for the first time. I finally managed to get the bearing out, but I believe the inside of the bearing is still attached. I'll probably have to grind that down a bit more to get it out. Hopefully my new bearing arrives in the morning, and is the right one. I want to wait for the new one to arrive to be sure I know which is still part of the bearing and which is part of the shaft.










Also, after all of that, it's not as easy to get a drill with a sanding disc attachment in there to remove the rust as I thought it would be.

Maybe there's a sanding attachment for the angle grinder that would make it easier?


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Maybe now that the outer race and balls are off hit it with your torch again and see...?

Also, a MAPP Gas burner is a cheap and useful investment. Hotter than propane.


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

Now that your outer race is off, can you pass the entire auger/impeller assy forward through the auger housing to get more access to the bearing? I just did this with a toro and once the auger/impeller assy was out and I was able to drive the impeller slightly forward, then I was able to get a bearing puller behind the bearing and pull it rearward.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

cpchriste said:


> Now that your outer race is off, can you pass the entire auger/impeller assy forward through the auger housing to get more access to the bearing? I just did this with a toro and once the auger/impeller assy was out and I was able to drive the impeller slightly forward, then I was able to get a bearing puller behind the bearing and pull it rearward.


This was a great tip. I wasn't able to move the auger assy at all, but I was able to get the bearing puller around the inside race enough to successfully pull it out.

Once I was able to grab it, it really didn't take much - the problem before was that it wasn't possible to get the bearing puller in there.

Now I'm waiting on delivery of the new bearing.


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## gossamer (Apr 25, 2015)

Used my new angle grinder to sand the chassis. It's also now painted and looks great, or at least good enough to prevent further rust. Got the new bearing and looks like it'll work just fine.

Can someone tell me what type of gear oil I should use for the gear assembly? I have some leftover gear oil from my compressor - can I use that? Apparently some leaked out of the cap at the top of the gear assembly. Should I fill it up completely? Perhaps even drain out what's in there first?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

your suppose to use 00 grease in the auger gear box.


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