# Finally found my dream machine - A late 70's 924039



## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Well my patience finally paid off. I've been trying to find a 924039 machine in good condition at a reasonable price, and I just found one that has been stored in a barn for years by its original owner:



I brought it home for $90. The original 8hp tecumseh runs, albeit only on 3/4 to full choke. I've already pulled off the carb and will do a cleaning or rebuild. The augers do not appear to be frozen on the shafts and the augers/impeller move freely. I even got the original owner's manual. 

Rust is minimal for its age. The worst of it is at the bottom of the bucket by the scraper bar:



Having procured this, I wanted to run a few questions by the brain trust here to help me plan ahead. I want this to be my long term machine, as it has the right combo of what I am looking for (8hp, electric start, automotive style differential, controls all up top, old school thick steel). 

1) I'm on the fence over a full blown strip/repaint. How bad is the rust on the bottom at the edges of the scraper bar? Should I be concerned about it rotting through soon?

2) If I do pull things apart for painting, might as well go all out. Anything I should do engine wise while it would be out and on the bench? 

3) The only negative this machine has over my 910019 is that it has an aluminum gearbox and the old one is cast iron. Any concerns with longevity? A little grease leaked out when I transported the bucket on its side. Should I be replacing seals? If I have everything disassembled, should I be rebuilding anything in the gearbox?

4) The differential lock pin is frozen in the "in" position. Any pointers of freeing it up?


I love the machine and look forward to hearing what you guys would do with it.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

If I may add to my questions for the mind hive:

I tore into the bucket today with minimal difficulty. The hardest parts were removing the roll pins, and separating the gear case halves. After a little patience, I finally got it apart:





Is it just me, or did very little grease come out? In fact, half of it was liquified, the other half had the consistency of vaseline. You can see it in the following photo where I smeared it with my finger:



Is it possible that the original Ariens liquid grease just separates over time? Or is it possible that the previous owner incorrectly added L2 or something designed for the cast iron unit? Either way, that explains why I was seeing a minor leak. The seals seem fairly good, but the liquid stuff is very thin and can easily leak out. 

On to the condition of the worm shaft and gear:









This is my first experience with a gearbox, so I would appreciate advice from trained eyes. How do they look? It looks to me like the brass gear is in good condition. The worm shaft doesn't appear to be majorly deformed, but my eyes are drawn to the roughness in the center. Here's another closeup:



You can definitely see some pitting. Is this anything to worry about?

Since the bucket is almost entirely disassembled (except for the impeller fan from the shaft), I think I'll end up repainting everything. I have plenty of time before winter hits so I can take my time and do this right. Before reassembly, what other parts should I replace while I'm this deep in the job? 


Finally, I noticed that two adjacent impeller blades are slightly bent. Is this anything to worry about in terms of being off balance?





I can try to fit them in my bench vise to flatten them. I also think I'll go for an impeller kit while I'm at it. 

Thanks in advance for the legendary advice I always get here.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Here are two more photos of the worm shaft, in daylight, with a focus on the burred center threads:


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Anyone?


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

I would change the worm shaft, the pitted area may act as an abrasive and eat away the brass gear. :blush:
The brass gear looks ok in my opinion (but I am not an Ariens expert) :blush:


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

The rust at the bottom of the auger housing does not look bad at all and I do not think that it will rot soon but you could clean it and prime it at minimum to stop it. (if it was me, and it was my dream machine I'll get it powder coated.... :blush
On the engine, I would check valve adjustment, if out of spec, remove the head, adjust the valves and clean all the carbon from inside.
The bent impeller blades will straighten up on the bench and a big hammer. I agree on drilling for an impeller kit (you can make a template to use on all the blades, so that the holes have equal distances).


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Is that pitting, or just crud stuck in the gears?

I'd agree with hsblowersfan, the rust on the rest of it doesn't look bad. Depending on how far you want to go with it, it looks like it should clean up nicely for you.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

bwdbrn1 said:


> Is that pitting, or just crud stuck in the gears?.


Good point. Maybe he should try some solvent and see if it comes off. :blush:


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

If it was mine and a keeper: replace the worm gear, replace the bushings in the gearbox. Get a Mapp torch, warm the impellers up and straighten them out.
If you have access to an abrasive blaster, blast the housing and applicable other parts of rust, get as much out - I like ground up coal cinder. Use a rust encapsulation product on the rust or something like Evaporust. Good primer then Rustoleum paint.
Impeller kit wouldn't hurt, use stainless steel hardware to reduce future rust and prime the insides of any holes you drill.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Thanks for the great info. 

I double checked and there's definitely some pitting in the worm shaft. Some of what you see is caked on grease, but other areas won't shine up and clearly lost a bit of steel. Is that odd that the brass gear looks great, but the worm shaft seems more worn? Perhaps the previous owner already replaced the brass gear. 

I FINALLY got the roll pins off the impeller fan, but I still can't get the shaft out. Is this a situation where you just bang on the end of the shaft (past the fan)? Also, I have a propane torch, but not mapp gas. Is that hot enough to aid flattening those two fan blades? The fan is so oddly-shaped that it's tough to place the bent piece flat on my work bench. 

Regarding plans, if I sure up this gear case and it doesn't break the bank, I think I'll definitely repaint. Powdercoating sounds expensive, no? I'd also like a good match to the chevy orange most people use. For rust removal, I did already pick up a gallon of Evaporust for the smaller pieces (bolts, flanges, etc.). For removal of the deeper rust, I don't have an abrasive blaster, but I do have a brass wire brush and a decent drill. Is that too light of an equipment lineup to do a good paint/rust removal job?


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Stang said:


> I double checked and there's definitely some pitting in the worm shaft.


If it is pitted, replace it, or you'll be replacing the brass gear as well soon. :blush:



Stang said:


> I FINALLY got the roll pins off the impeller fan, but I still can't get the shaft out. I have a propane torch, but not mapp gas.


A hydraulic press and some heat works best for this. Otherwise electrolisis, or soak it in penetrating oil, let it sit and try until it comes off. :blush:
You can get a piece of "water pipe" at Home Depot with the inside diameter of slightly over 1" (or the diameter of the shaft) and use this to hold the fan as you push the shaft out (it has worked for me on a press). :blush:



Stang said:


> Powdercoating sounds expensive, no?


Yes, it is, but it should be very durable. :blush:



Stang said:


> For removal of the deeper rust I do have a brass wire brush and a decent drill.


You're better off with a steel wire brush. :blush:


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely replace at least the worm shaft, and consider doing the brass gear too. Now I'm tempted to go all out and do the cast iron replacement. Hmm..

Also, when you say "water pipe", I'm not sure what you're referring to. When I think water pipe, I think copper or PEX. 

You guys also got me thinking of an abrasive blaster now. It just dawned on me that I have a rusty bilco door that I eventually mean to repaint. Maybe there's wife-friendly justification here to buy a basic blaster for that, and get some use out of it for the Ariens while I'm at it. Any of the Harbor Freight blasters halfway decent?


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Stang said:


> Also, when you say "water pipe", I'm not sure what you're referring to. When I think water pipe, I think copper or PEX.


Something like this from Home Depot

https://www.ebarnett.com/Sku/45323?...3&cadevice=c&gclid=CNS-veDT4c4CFZFZhgodGQAKHw


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

hsblowersfan said:


> Something like this from Home Depot
> 
> https://www.ebarnett.com/Sku/45323?...3&cadevice=c&gclid=CNS-veDT4c4CFZFZhgodGQAKHw


Oh that makes perfect sense. I take it you mean that I remove the trust collar behind the worm threads, then fit the pipe over the longer part of the shaft, and use a press or BFH on the shorter end of the shaft (behind the fan, on the tractor side). 

Now I have to decide whether to replace just the worm shaft, worm shaft + brass gear, or whole new cast iron assembly. Decisions..


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## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

Judging from the wear on the steel shaft its safe to assume the brass gear is quite a bit worn as well. Being such a soft metal it wouldn't be apparent.

What you replace depends on your budget and if you're okay with possibly used parts as Ariens no longer supplies replacement worm gear and shafts for split aluminum units. If it were me and a customers unit i'd either give them the option. Long term machine? Replace it. On the other hand if you just want to run it I feel fairly confident you wouldn't see any real issues especially if its only munching snow and doesn't eat bricks, chain, 2x4s etc...where the sudden jam may overstress the already worn teeth and shear.

Definitely replace all the bushings and seals while you're in there. Those are good gear boxes only because of the semi-liquid grease. Unlike the units that switched to L2 after those units didn't pee the lubricant out on the floor after a few years due to the thicker viscosity.

The single piece cast iron replacement is also a nice upgrade but not as critical as the split aluminum L2 units so kind of your call. One could argue the latter might be stronger but then again that original went how many decades? Probably on the original lubricant to boot. The biggest consideration is how much your time is worth to you. I could spend 4 hours refurbishing that, or drop in a new assembly and be done for ~$200.

To get the impeller fan off you really need a hydraulic shop press and oxy-acetylene doesn't hurt either. Machine shop or most any decent automotive repair garage should be able to press it out for you for $10-$20. There is a bit of a conundrum here too because the shaft can be so rusted in place that it bends in the process of pressing it out so if you wanted to keep it, it is then junk. Also you really should get the impeller off anyway since the rear seal and bushing is the one that takes the vast majority of wear.

The steel the bodies are made from puts most any newer unit to shame so I wouldn't worry at all about it rusting through anytime soon unless you store it in a chlorine/salt room. The weld lowest to the scraper plates on either side do have a tendency to crack though so check those.

I'd use a quality old stock bearing for the impeller shaft if that's wiped out. The originals were of very good quality but the new ones from Ariens are 50 cent jobs out of China and begin to wear about 100x faster than the originals ever did. You can locate a quality replacement from a myriad of other sources by the bearing number which should be 1635. The issue is its not a common bearing size so the big bearing manufacturers like Koyo, NTN, NSK etc..don't make them. A new old stock USA made shielded 1635 from ebay should work a treat though.

Also check the axles for play, the bushings should be trashed unless someone serviced it not too long ago. Save the cast support flanges that the bushings are pressed into because they're quite costly to buy new. Last thing to check is the bearing for the friction plate. Those don't usually have problems with wear do to how little load they see but also watch out for the spindle assembly being frozen (friction plate should lift and drop when the lever is depressed).


Also wouldn't be the worst idea to crack open the engine and loosen/retighten the crank journal bolts, replace the crank seals, and clean the head, but that can be a project for another time.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

If you can, replace it with a cast iron gear box... :blush:


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Stang said:


> Oh that makes perfect sense. I take it you mean that I remove the trust collar behind the worm threads, then fit the pipe over the longer part of the shaft, and use a press or BFH on the shorter end of the shaft (behind the fan, on the tractor side).


Yes.... :blush:


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

SnoThro said:


> Judging from the wear on the steel shaft its safe to assume the brass gear is quite a bit worn as well. Being such a soft metal it wouldn't be apparent.
> 
> What you replace depends on your budget and if you're okay with possibly used parts as Ariens no longer supplies replacement worm gear and shafts for split aluminum units. If it were me and a customers unit i'd either give them the option. Long term machine? Replace it. On the other hand if you just want to run it I feel fairly confident you wouldn't see any real issues especially if its only munching snow and doesn't eat bricks, chain, 2x4s etc...where the sudden jam may overstress the already worn teeth and shear.
> 
> ...


What's the difference between sealed and shielded bearings? I noticed that the oregon replacement bearing is sealed. I can track down some NOS sealed bearings, though. 

Also, what are your thoughts on the DTM aftermarket replacement worm shaft + gear? Is it one of those situations where the quality isn't as high as OEM? 

I'm all in on this machine, so I will definitely be pulling the head off the tecumseh and rebuilding what I can. I will also likely pick up an abrasive blaster and repaint the machine with a good primer and chevy orange. I'll likely order reproduction decals as well. 

Thanks for the great advice.


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## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

Bearings come in 3 main styles

Open
Double sealed
Double shielded.

Sealed is a buna-n (rubber) covering the bearing and is best at keeping out contaminants.

Shielded is a piece of metal covering the bearing, it has inferior protection from contaminants but runs cooler.

The latter was the style used way back during the early Ariens days. The problem with the Chinese junk they're using now is they don't seem to be hardened anywhere close to what the originals were so they quickly develop slop. Its not terrible, its just annoying that you replace a bearing that stayed tight for many many years of service and the new one lasts about 3 years before you can grab the pulley and feel noticeable play.

I have no experience with aftermarket worm gear and shafts. As I stated since they started offering the cast iron replacement its generally so labor intensive to rebuild one of those old gear boxes (im a perfectionist hence I spend a lot of time) that if the replacement is offered its either a wash or cheaper to just install a new unit.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

SnoThro said:


> Bearings come in 3 main styles
> 
> Open
> Double sealed
> ...


Interesting. So given the choice between a NOS shielded unit, versus a newer Stens or Oregon sealed unit, it's still better to go with the shielded unit, even if it doesn't keep out contaminants as well?


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## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

Stens/Oregon is probably the same as what Ariens sells. Its just a Chinese bearing-the reason why I say its probably the same is the size is a little rare to buy new.

Given the choice i'd be a new old stock bearing made in USA or Japan(if available) through ebay. 

Either way it wont wreck your day, its just a small complaint I have that they wear out far faster.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

SnoThro said:


> Stens/Oregon is probably the same as what Ariens sells. Its just a Chinese bearing-the reason why I say its probably the same is the size is a little rare to buy new.
> 
> Given the choice i'd be a new old stock bearing made in USA or Japan(if available) through ebay.
> 
> Either way it wont wreck your day, its just a small complaint I have that they wear out far faster.


That's what I figured. 

Going for the old bearing, though, does it matter if the old, made-in-USA, bearing is shielded or sealed? 


On an unrelated note: I did end up picking up a cast iron replacement gear box. Since I have everything disassembled anyway, and it would cost over $100 to replace the worm shaft and brass gear, I figured I might as well go big since this could be my forever machine.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

I guess I'll go for a shielded NOS bearing then?


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## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

I'd be more concerned that its not a Chinese bearing as opposed to the style.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

SnoThro said:


> I'd be more concerned that its not a Chinese bearing as opposed to the style.


I picked up a shielded bearing mfg in Newburgh NY in the 70s. I can already feel how well-made this NOS piece is. 

Nice


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

SnoThro said:


> I'd be more concerned that its not a Chinese bearing as opposed to the style.


A followup bearing question:

Having dug deep into the tractor, I was on the fence about replacing the axle bearings since there was little play, but I think I accidentally ruined the right side bearing while sliding it off the axle, as I got some PB blaster inside the bearing. It slides now, but feels "gritty". Soo I will be replacing at least one of them, probably both. 

I saw that the bearings are marked Nice 8186. Ariens part # is 05409300. Is there another trade number I can go by? All I'm finding is $30 bearings compatible with some JD blowers, made in china. I was hoping to find a made-in-usa NOS equivalent to search for.


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## ctdave (Sep 11, 2015)

Stang said:


> I picked up a shielded bearing mfg in Newburgh NY in the 70s. I can already feel how well-made this NOS piece is.
> 
> Nice


 when I did my restore I ordered both. the nos bearing seemed much more solid and it was heavier (in weight) than the current aftermarket one. I put the nos on.


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## Ariens1978 (Oct 6, 2016)

Stang said:


> A followup bearing question:
> 
> Having dug deep into the tractor, I was on the fence about replacing the axle bearings since there was little play, but I think I accidentally ruined the right side bearing while sliding it off the axle, as I got some PB blaster inside the bearing. It slides now, but feels "gritty". Soo I will be replacing at least one of them, probably both.
> 
> I saw that the bearings are marked Nice 8186. Ariens part # is 05409300. Is there another trade number I can go by? All I'm finding is $30 bearings compatible with some JD blowers, made in china. I was hoping to find a made-in-usa NOS equivalent to search for.


Arent those the same bearing as the impeller shaft?

Edit: nvm i see the impeller has the same OD and height but smaller ID


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Ariens1978 said:


> Arent those the same bearing as the impeller shaft?
> 
> Edit: nvm i see the impeller has the same OD and height but smaller ID


Correct Different ID. 


I'm hoping for a NOS alternative part # that someone knows about. Otherwise, is it worth cleaning and repacking the old bearings vs buying new chinese ones?


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Well I did some more digging and found the following equivalencies for the original bearing:

Ariens 05409300
Nice 8186
John Deere AM122117
Stens 230-287
Oregon 450-268

What's odd is that the oregon bearing is MUCH cheaper than anything else under the other part numbers. They're like $8 each, as opposed to $25+ for the others. Any idea why? Every one of these replacement parts seems to be made in China, anyway. Should I just grab a pair of the oregon bearings?


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## ctdave (Sep 11, 2015)

Stang said:


> Well I did some more digging and found the following equivalencies for the original bearing:
> 
> Ariens 05409300
> Nice 8186
> ...


 interesting on price diff. cant help with any info, but would like to know what you find out


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

After my local Ariens Dealer sold me an aftermarket bearing for $20, I started buying them online, Ariens 54063, 05406300 | Ariens 54063


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Jackmels said:


> After my local Ariens Dealer sold me an aftermarket bearing for $20, I started buying them online, Ariens 54063, 05406300 | Ariens 54063


Thanks, Jack, for the great source! 

On a related note: Do you replace the two drive bearings as well? These are the ones that connect to the friction disk and only spin when the clutch is engaged. They are the same part number as the axle bearings, but my impression is that they are not under nearly the same duress as the axle bearings. 

I was gonna leave them alone, but that was when I thought these bearings were way expensive.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Jackmels said:


> After my local Ariens Dealer sold me an aftermarket bearing for $20, I started buying them online, Ariens 54063, 05406300 | Ariens 54063


After spending a few minutes trying to figure out why these bearings won't fit over the axle, I came back to this and realized this link is for the wrong bearing. The axle bearings are 54093, not 54063. D'oh!

Looks like I'll be buying the expensive aftermarket ones after all, as this website doesn't stock them. Thanks for the link, though - good to know!


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Inexpensive Bearings are out there if you look for them..Oregon Magnum Ball Bearing for Ariens 05409300, 45-268 | eBay


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

Jackmels said:


> Inexpensive Bearings are out there if you look for them..Oregon Magnum Ball Bearing for Ariens 05409300, 45-268 | eBay


Ha! I just bought those yesterday. Great minds think alike.


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## Stang (Mar 28, 2015)

New bearings arrived today. The correct size. 

Related question: When putting the new bearings back on the axle, I lubricated the axle with motor oil so it slid on nicely (but still snug). Should I have used something like anti-seize compound where the bearing ultimately rests on the axle? I'm thinking ahead to whenever I have to take this bearing off again in the future (and what a pain it was to slide the old one off). 

I suppose this question applies to the impeller shaft bearing as well. Oil, grease, or anti seize? Or does it not matter?


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