# toro is doing it



## PhilThefarmer (Dec 21, 2020)

so, toro is actually doing it, there making an electric 2 stage snowblower


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

not really that new of news. it has already been brought up at least once








60V 2-Stage Blowers e24 and e26


Toro has released 60V two stage blowers in 24" and 26" models. They take up to three 7.5ah batteries and claim to be able to clear 10" from a 30 car driveway with two batteries. https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/snow-blowers/power-max-60v-39926 First look: The motor runs all the time when...




www.snowblowerforum.com


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Don't Really See The Big Deal On Batteries When It Is Bloody Freaking Cold Out.*


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## PhilThefarmer (Dec 21, 2020)

crazzywolfie said:


> not really that new of news. it has already been brought up at least once
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well, this was the first time I saw the news


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 9, 2021)

OPE manufacturers have no choice anymore , the EPA keeps pushing the bounderies .


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Best for manufacturers to do it now, get real world testing, adjust the design, fix the problems, when it's optional rather than required. 

We are on the edge of some fantastic battery technology. They now have a battery that fully charges in 10 minutes. That will be the ultimate battery technology for cars.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 9, 2021)

Yes they are making a lot of battery advancements but what worries me is the electricity available to charge all those batteries , it needs to advance a lot too or it's not going to work out very good.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

JLaw, what voltage does that 10 minute charge require.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Google it. It's recent. I read this week both a U.S. company and a Israeli company have it, Stor.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

40,000 volts!

The charging plug is located at the bottom of High Tension towers. One wrong move and .......


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

They don't tell. I am shocked !


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

JLawrence08648 said:


> They now have a battery that fully charges in 10 minutes.











Israeli company unveils electric vehicle battery that can recharge in 10 minutes


StoreDot reveals cylindrical cells prototype that uses a 4680 format favored by global carmakers, specifically Tesla




www.timesofisrael.com




That would be fast! The 80V batteries for my Greenworks charge faster @ 120V/420W than they are consumed, which is pretty good, though... Two batteries provide for virtually continuous use.

Greenworks 80V Battery Info ChartMax VoltageNominal VoltageAmp Hours (ah)Capacity in Watt Hours (wh)Max Charging Rate (Watts)Charge Time (Minutes)Weight (lbs)MSRPPrice per Watt HoureBay PriceeBay Price per Watt Hour80722144420303.2$1280.89$ 75$ 0.5280723*240420454$ 120$ 0.5080724288420605$2981.03$ 175$ 0.6180725360420905$3901.08$ 240$ 0.6780726*4804201055.5$ 160$ 0.33* Aftermarket


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

bisonp said:


> Pricing on the 26":
> 
> Tool only: $1299
> (2) 6ah batteries: $1499
> ...


i feel like Bisonp already pretty much covered everything pretty good in the other thread. $260-$360/battery depending on which battery you need and whether you want the 3rd battery for the extended run time. it is definitely a lot of money for a snowblower that is still in the experimental stages.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 9, 2021)

This is something that will need another 5-10 years . I would really like to see it and try it.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Price of batteries, run time, and battery life are not any where near what I would accept as good operational sense to me yet.

I am sure in the years to come, all this electric stuff will come more in line with economic operational sense.


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## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

Toro sent out some demo units to YouTubers last spring, and from what I've seen, these actually seem to perform OK. They are overpriced for the performance for sure, but the ease of maintenance and quietness are very appealing and that is what will sell them. And with Toro's design there is no reason why you couldn't just put that drive unit on any blower. 

Personally I'd be OK with the initial cost for the benefits, it's that $700 expense in 5-7 years for new batteries that's a problem, at which time who knows if you'll even be able to buy compatible batteries. It's just as likely it will be more cost effective to buy a whole new drive unit. That's why I don't buy the environmentally friendly argument.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 9, 2021)

Sure don't need more stuff in the land fill . Recycling needs to improve much better as there is a lot of stuff tossed in dumpsters that shouldn't be.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

they should almost have to make the batteries serviceable kind of like old stuff. they should split the cells into groups or something so you can replace 1 group if 1 cell fails because a lot of the time with 18v stuff 1 bad cell will usually stop the battery from working and if the ends were not spot welded together it would make it a lot easier to replace individual cells. no different than tesla cars. there are people who will replace just a few battery packs inside the cell for a fraction of the price of a new battery.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

Right now there are at least a few fuel companies competing for your energy dollar. What will all the battery power Kool-Aid drinkers say when the only energy source is a single government endorsed electric monopoly? You won't be able to turn back as the short sighted political hacks will have taxed or regulated every other energy choice to extinction. The average homeowner will have a 1000 a month electric bill and rolling blackouts while that lights stay on in government buildings.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

From what I've seen, all of these battery powered machines are only suited for residential use with driveways that are average in size at best. I wouldn't be too happy if I had to stop to recharge before completing the cleanup. Even if it were only the larger storms. Sure you can buy more batteries but now that really drives up the investment cost.

If you're someone who likes to help out the neighbors or a commercial user, battery machines are, dare I say, useless.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Oneacer said:


> Price of batteries, run time, and battery life are not any where near what I would accept as good operational sense to me yet.





JJG723 said:


> I wouldn't be too happy if I had to stop to recharge before completing the cleanup.


I kinda feel like I'm just banging my head against the wall...

1. I have two $75 2Ah batteries; I can swap them into the charger in seconds and run forever, since a battery lasts 40 minutes and charges in 30 minutes. The larger 6Ah batteries would give about 2 hours between switches.
2. My HSS1332AATD has a 1.5 gallon tank. The specs for the GX390 say .92 gal/hr @3600 rpm = 1.63 hours. It takes a lot longer than seconds (minutes) for the engine to cool down and then refilling the tank.

Just sayin'...


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

tabora said:


> It takes a lot longer than seconds (minutes) for the engine to cool down and then refilling the tank.


who waits for a engine to cool before refilling? you shut it off, refill, then fire it up again and get back to work. maybe 2-3 minute job tops depending on the type of gas can you have.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

crazzywolfie said:


> who waits for a engine to cool before refilling?


Per every owners manual, ever... WARNING! STOP THE ENGINE AND LET IT COOL BEFORE REFUELING.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

I admit I have never waited for an OPE engine to cool before refueling. I do however, make sure that don't spill any fuel, especially on a hot exhaust.

For batteries, however, I do wait for the batteries to cool off before charging. Old habits from running RC batteries over the years.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

tabora said:


> Per every owners manual, ever... WARNING! STOP THE ENGINE AND LET IT COOL BEFORE REFUELING.


never had an issue yet. never had a machine catch fire even if you spill gas on it. you also have to let batteries get to room temperature before charging them. most have temp sensors in them if they are too hot or cold they won't work or wont charge and you can possibly damage the batteries if you try charging them and the batteries are not the right temp.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

On the topic of Toro's 2 stage battery snowblower, I'm liking it. For average residential use, I think it would be a perfect fit for me. Although at this time, I think the price is still high. It might not be as bad if I invest in the battery powered lawn mower to share the batteries.

However, during big storms, I do get out there and help neighbors around the block. Batteries would not work here unless I have at least 6 batteries and a smart fast charger with active cooling. That is quite an expenditure.

I think it would be great if batteries were universal. As long as the battery has enough amperage and capacity to do the work, it wouldn't matter the brand.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)




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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

crazzywolfie said:


> it is definitely a lot of money for a snowblower that is still in the experimental stages.


The snowblower design, brushless motor technology and speed controller has already matured. It's only the battery that still need a few kinks and wrinkles to work out.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

crazzywolfie said:


> never had a machine catch fire even if you spill gas on it.










































crazzywolfie said:


> you also have to let batteries get to room temperature before charging them.


If you were just using it, it is already at temperature. And the smart charger takes care of equalizing it.

Increase your efficiency with the Greenworks Pro 80V Rapid Battery Charger. The innovative, lightweight design includes a built-in fan for cooling, as well as an onboard fuel indicator for reference. The Greenworks lineup features over 20 high-performance Pro 80V tools, allowing you to ditch your gas tools for an innovative, eco-friendly alternative.​
Built-in fan for cooling & rapid charge times
On-board LED fuel indicator for quick charging reference
Energy Star Efficient


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

tabora said:


> Per every owners manual, ever... WARNING! STOP THE ENGINE AND LET IT COOL BEFORE REFUELING.
> View attachment 180832


by the time you walk to the house and back to get the gas the engine is already cooled down in the wintertime


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I myself can truthfully say If I run out of gas, I just refill it on any of my machines. I honestly don't know of anyone that stops what there doing, walks away, and lets an engine cool down.

The reason they state that in all manuals is to take them out of liability claims. Like don't stick your hand in the chute to clean it out, etc ....


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

I guess that these accidents do occur often enough that newer OPE has spark arrester screens inside the gas tank. It is a pain since I can't see the fuel level as I fill it up. Sometimes I get a little overflow over the tank as a result. There has to be a better way to implement these safety measures.

Back on topic, I'm looking forward to using battery operated equipment. No fuel issues or age to worry about, particles inside the fuel lines to clog up carburetors, no storage rituals, no fuel treatment rituals and concoctions.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

tabora said:


> I kinda feel like I'm just banging my head against the wall...
> 
> 1. I have two $75 2Ah batteries; I can swap them into the charger in seconds and run forever, since a battery lasts 40 minutes and charges in 30 minutes. The larger 6Ah batteries would give about 2 hours between switches.
> 2. My HSS1332AATD has a 1.5 gallon tank. The specs for the GX390 say .92 gal/hr @3600 rpm = 1.63 hours. It takes a lot longer than seconds (minutes) for the engine to cool down and then refilling the tank.
> ...


I don't feel that comparison is fair. A small single stage vs. an above average size 2 stage? 

Like others have said, I've never intentionally let the engine cool before refueling. Back in 2013 I burned through 13 gallons of gas... in 1 snowstorm. (30"-34" of snow, 13hp Tecumseh with 1 gallon tank.) Waiting would have added hours to my cleanup time.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

CarlB said:


> by the time you walk to the house and back to get the gas the engine is already cooled down in the wintertime


Agreed. Again, all I'm saying is that it takes at least several minutes to refuel a gas engine, and seconds to refuel a cordless by swapping the battery. I have to walk to the mudroom for the battery and to the garage for the gas and then back again.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 9, 2021)

crazzywolfie said:


> they should almost have to make the batteries serviceable kind of like old stuff. they should split the cells into groups or something so you can replace 1 group if 1 cell fails because a lot of the time with 18v stuff 1 bad cell will usually stop the battery from working and if the ends were not spot welded together it would make it a lot easier to replace individual cells. no different than tesla cars. there are people who will replace just a few battery packs inside the cell for a fraction of the price of a new battery.


That could become a good business for someone when the time is right.


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## wintersm (Aug 19, 2021)

nitehawk55 said:


> Yes they are making a lot of battery advancements but what worries me is the electricity available to charge all those batteries , it needs to advance a lot too or it's not going to work out very good.


We just use those batteries to power the other batteries. Lol.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 9, 2021)

Just make sure that machine is full before you start , run for a long time on a tank , by then you should be ready for a break


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## rcleone (Dec 7, 2015)

Not if you own one of the newer Ariens with more horsepower and smaller gas tank!!!!


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 9, 2021)

How much run time rcleone? Sometimes they just don't get it right , do they.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I thought this was sumting x rated......


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

tabora said:


> Agreed. Again, all I'm saying is that it takes at least several minutes to refuel a gas engine, and seconds to refuel a cordless by swapping the battery. I have to walk to the mudroom for the battery and to the garage for the gas and then back again.


i have many cordless tools that work just fine including a Edger. I am not interested in an electric riding tractor, Leaf blower or two stage snowblower


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## michaelnel (Feb 12, 2019)

I bought the E26 (no snow yet). I have a small area to clear, but sometimes it gets pretty deep. I got the blower, 3 batteries and two of the rapid chargers. I am not really worried about the long service life of the batteries. I am 72, in lousy health, and the batteries are pretty likely to outlast me.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

I like the idea of electric equipment, but the power grid needs to be upgraded as soon as possible as well.
The battery manufacturers need to consider standardizing the battery voltages, so obsolescence does not happen. Something like 30V, 60V, 90V 120V, 240V, depending on the equipment and usage power requirements. 
Standardize the method of connection so that batteries of different manufacturers will all fit a tool of the same voltage. The electrical industry has done this already with common use household and industrial products. The battery industry needs to do the same.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Toon said:


> The battery industry needs to do the same.


Actually, the batteries themselves are already quite standardized. It's how the equipment OEMs are packaging them that is different. 









I was fortunate that Greenworks and Kobalt batteries are internally identical and only the placement of the casing rails is different. That made it easy to modify my Kobalt trimmer to accept the Greenworks batteries.

The aftermarket will likely enable us to interchange some brands' batteries eventually. I already have 20V Li-Ion adapters for both my Dewalt 18V Ni-MH drill and circular saw.


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## Toon (May 11, 2021)

What I really liked about the 18VDC NiCad drill was that it was made in the USA. It went obsolete quite quickly and 20 VDC LION tools took its place. I gifted my 18V drill and 2 batteries to my nephew and now have a stable of 20VDC LION tools. I don't know how long the 20V LION will remain in service which is why I wish they would standardize the batteries across brands. I'm sure such a standardization move would bring the costs down as well.


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## Tseg (Jan 29, 2021)

I recently stumbled upon the myriad of Toro 60V 2-stage reviews. Performance seems ok if just plowing a single driveway. Bundles out there for ~$1700 with 2 batteries even though machine can hold 3. Replacement batteries between $250 - $360 a pop. Even searching the internet, it is very difficult to gauge the life expectancy of these batteries... I'm thinking 6-8 years, maybe 10? Even if battery costs decline, I image in today's dollars will still be $500+ to replace 3 batteries from a reputable manufacturer 8-10 years down the road. That is a lot of toxic waste and a lot of built-in maintenance costs with these machines.

I was reading in China that battery recycling has gotten very expensive so a whole black market has opened up there to help make your batteries "disappear" much less expensively. I suspect this "energy transition" will have quite a few bumps along the way. Hopefully my gas-powered Honda will allow me to watch from the sidelines unfolding events for the next 30 years.

The long-term cost of electricity is a whole other matter I won't touch.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

I am glad you think we have 30 carefree years.

A. Blah blah blah
B. Blah blah blah

*[Edit: Easy does it Buddy. 🍻 Y.R.]*


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## AndrewFromIdaho (Jan 11, 2017)

I just spent my first couple days using the Toro 60V Max Power Max 2‑Stage Snow Blower, with 2x 7.5ah batteries. I thought I'd write up my impressions. 

First, my background and experience. I live in north-central Idaho. We average around 2-months of snow cover in a typical year. 

I previously had a Cub Cadet 357cc "3 Stage" 26" snowblower that I never really liked (it loved breaking shear pins and getting plugged up). I also regularly use an older tracked Honda snowblower that I use at a mountain cabin, which I love, but is overkill for our needs at home. I've also used a 2-stage Ariens that I really liked, and probably would have purchased if I hadn't wanted to go electric. 

We sometimes get as much as a foot in a single snowfall, and experience quite a bit of drifting. I'm only clearing the walkways and patios around our house, as well as a couple parking pads. 

*Why I Chose an Electric Snowblower*

I like being able to use it, and not smell like small-engine exhaust for the rest of the day. 
I like the ease of not having to start and stop a gas engine. 
I like the more instant power response of electric. 
I (still) buy plenty of ethanol free. It's nice to have to buy slightly less. 
*Why I chose this Toro*

It was comparable in price to other 2-stage battery-powered models. 
I don't have either Ryobi or Ego 60v equipment, so I was starting from scratch. 
I liked that, apart from the motor, it uses Toro's proven design from their gas snow blowers. \
It comes with two batteries, and you can add a 3rd if you need it (I don't expect to for my needs, but it's a nice option to have)
*What I like, After Using it for 2-Days*

It's more maneuverable and easier to use than my Cub Cadet, and obviously the tracked Honda
It's at least as powerful as, if not more powerful than, my Cub Cadet.
The hand grip heaters warm up far faster than any other unit I've used. 
I haven't had any issues with battery life. My longest single plowing session was about 30-minutes, and I'd used less than half the batteries. 
It's really quick and easy to get started. No warm up time. No choke. No pull start or plugging it in. Just turn the key and go. 
My kids (of course) left a pastic nerf baseball bat out hidden under the snow. The machine ate it up, but I was able to remove it without any issue, or changing any shear pins. Score 1 for Toro's shear-pin free design. 
*Things I Might Change or Am Concerned About*

My unit only came with one charger, but it looks like it was supposed to have two. I'll reach out to Toro and see if they'll send me a 2nd unit. In either case, I'd rather have a single charger that let me plug in both batteries, just for simplicity / compactness. Right now, I have to remember to go out and switch batteries on the single charger. 
Not specific to electric, but while I like Toro's Joystiq-style chute director, I suspect it might not be the most durable/simple design in the world. But I'd be happy to be wrong. 
The slowest forward speed isn't slow enough for really deep snow. I had a section of ~1-foot deep heavy drift I had to clear. The unit could handle it at slow speed, but the slowest speed wasn't slow enough. I ended up having to go forward, stop to let the unit catch up, and go forward again. 
Speaking of speeds, I'd prefer a hydraulic-style "infinitely adjustible" drive speed system, to the unit's system with set stops. It's a minor thing, but seems like it should be easy with an electric drive system, so why not? 
My verdict so far: I'd absolutely buy it again. We'll see how things go over the longer term.


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## michaelnel (Feb 12, 2019)

Excellent review, thank you. I have one of these too. We have had only one storm and it was wet, gloppy Sierra Cement. Neither this blower or my 828 did very well in that stuff. We have a bigger storm coming through tomorrow, hoping it's powder!


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## AndrewFromIdaho (Jan 11, 2017)

michaelnel said:


> Excellent review, thank you. I have one of these too. We have had only one storm and it was wet, gloppy Sierra Cement. Neither this blower or my 828 did very well in that stuff. We have a bigger storm coming through tomorrow, hoping it's powder!


A few weeks ago we had a really early-season proper slush storm. The Toro didnt' like that much either. 

But, last night we got 3-4" of pretty wet stuff with the temps hovering right around freezing and the Toro had no issues whatsoever clearing it out this morning.


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## michaelnel (Feb 12, 2019)

AndrewFromIdaho said:


> A few weeks ago we had a really early-season proper slush storm. The Toro didnt' like that much either.
> 
> But, last night we got 3-4" of pretty wet stuff with the temps hovering right around freezing and the Toro had no issues whatsoever clearing it out this morning.


Cool. Our storm is just at heavy rain right now. Supposed to turn to heavy snow this afternoon.


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