# Idiot neighbor slopes carport roof the wrong way



## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Been dealing with this for years now, but just have to vent since I had to fire up the tractor at midnight last night so we could get to our house. Our neighbor's carport slopes toward the road, rather than down the hill on the other side away from the road. This is a seasonal place for them so it doesn't affect them at all, but we leave here year-round so it's a hassle for me every single winter. I get the road nicely cleared, then when it warms a bit the snow slides off their carport and makes the road impassable again and I have to blade it out. The snow never comes off all at once, so naturally I have to repeat this process several times over the course of a day or two even if there's no additional snowfall.


The really rotten part is that a few years ago they rebuilt the carport. A perfect opportunity to correct the problem, right? Nope! They kept it sloping the wrong way. :icon_cussing_black::icon_cussing_black:


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

Nail a board to the edge, it will hold the snow and maybe even collapse the car port. Just make sure you remove the board before they come back.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Trust me, while dealing with this time after time I've had all sorts of evil thoughts. I don't wish ill on anyone but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if that carport collapsed from excessive weight as long as no one was injured.

Oh, and the neighbor complains about where I put the snow from his carport, too. As you can see from the photo there aren't a lot of options, but over the years I've been told not to push it over the hill, not to block their walkway to their house, etc. All of this occurred because I was actively trying to leave them a place to park in the winter! No good deed goes unpunished.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

is it a public road? if so i would assume you could file a complaint and they would have to remove part or all of the shed. generally you are not allowed building within so many feet of property lines for reasons like this.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

No, not a public road. This is around a lake, the road system evolved long before we moved here as waterfront property often does. Strictly speaking this road crosses the property of each homeowner along the way, although we were careful to secure an easement before we bought here. That puts us in an awkward position: Legally we can use and maintain the road, but there's no enforceable setback requirements.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

IDEngineer said:


> Trust me, while dealing with this time after time I've had all sorts of evil thoughts. I don't wish ill on anyone but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if that carport collapsed from excessive weight as long as no one was injured.
> 
> Oh, and the neighbor complains about where I put the snow from his carport, too. As you can see from the photo there aren't a lot of options, but over the years I've been told not to push it over the hill, not to block their walkway to their house, etc. All of this occurred because I was actively trying to leave them a place to park in the winter! No good deed goes unpunished.


Maybe you could just snowblow it right back where it came from on the roof... Or INTO the carport... :devil:


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## strtch5881 (Oct 6, 2018)

Did they tell you that you couldn't put the snow "IN" the carport?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

does this affect other people? could you widen the road around the carport to really **** him off??? I'm assuming you already spoke to him about this.

there are many ways to skin a cat.

if you can't widen the road I'd blow it someplace inconvenient for them. you have the right to road access.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

IDEngineer said:


> No, not a public road. This is around a lake, the road system evolved long before we moved here as waterfront property often does. Strictly speaking this road crosses the property of each homeowner along the way, although we were careful to secure an easement before we bought here. That puts us in an awkward position: Legally we can use and maintain the road, but there's no enforceable setback requirements.


It still could be worth a call to the code enforcement office. He is interfering with the free rights of passage by others. No costs involved.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

I cannot blow it back onto the carport. The angle of the carport is shallow so by the time it slides off (days later) it's already compacted snow, ice, etc. Even my Pro32 doesn't like chewing on that stuff. I plow it out of the way with the 580SK. Furthermore, that just means I would have to deal with the same snow/ice multiple times because it would just fall off again later.

I also cannot push it under the carport once it slides off, because the carport is lower than my 580SK.

I can't widen the road because 1) it's his private property, I can't just start moving dirt without permission; 2) there are utilities under there; 3) as the photo shows, it butts up against a hill so I'd be creating a cliff and have to manage erosion, etc. which might end up a worse problem than the carport.

The code enforcement office is an interesting idea, but since this is private property with a recorded easement there's really no code involved. Code applies to public rights of way, which this is not.

The proper solution is for him to replace his stupidly designed carport. And to stop criticizing my snow management decisions when they're mostly driven by his stupidly designed carport.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

move?


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Moving is an option! This is a beautiful place on a beautiful lake, but there are some nice islands in the Caribbean that have been calling my name. Less snow to manage, too. And it can be cheap to live in that part of the world if you can handle the island mindset.


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

Return to them, what belongs to them!!!
I don't care what it takes, I would find a way to get that snow back where it came from even if it took more work. Unfortunately you're dealing with a selfish inconsiderate knucklehead.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

aldfam4 said:


> Return to them, what belongs to them!!! I don't what it takes, I would find a way to get that snow back where it came from even if it took more work.


At the moment my approach is to pile the snow from the carport in their out-of-carport parking spot. Soon they will have nowhere to park, because the berm keeps them out of under the carport and the "outside" spot is filling fast. I expect that will generate a "conversation" and I will have another opportunity to point out that the solution is in their hands, not mine.

A key problem is that they don't live here. This is a summer weekend place for them. So we see them infrequently, speak even less often, and they aren't generally inconvenienced by snow problems.





> Unfortunately you're dealing with a selfish inconsiderate knucklehead.


Perhaps they're just "lazy". The carport was already like that when they bought the place. However, they rebuilt it soon after they arrived and I told them at the time to reverse the slope, pointing out that virtually every other carport in the entire area does so - for good reason. But I think they are too lazy (or too inexperienced, or too scared) to redesign it. For me, redesigning something like that is easy... but I'm slowly coming to understand that there are people in the world who do not know how to change a flat tire, much less rebuild a structure.

My son just started college at CalPoly, and in the first week one of their group had a flat tire. The driver and the rest of the group were utterly helpless. Their only plan was to call AAA. To change a freakin' tire?!? This is at one of the more advanced Engineering colleges in the country! They may know high end technical stuff, but they can't use a wrench or remove lugnuts. My son was stunned. He had that tire changed in minutes and they thought he was a rock star. I've tried to give him a well rounded upbringing, Engineering but also real world hands-on stuff, and I'm now learning that is definitely NOT the norm these days.


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## Greg13 (Nov 25, 2018)

Try showing him the picture so he knows what you are up against. perhaps he will work with you and offer up a solution. It is a safety hazard should emergency vehicles have to try and get through.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Greg13 said:


> Try showing him the picture so he knows what you are up against. perhaps he will work with you and offer up a solution. It is a safety hazard should emergency vehicles have to try and get through.


 Yes, that's why I took the photos. I intend to do exactly as you say. And you're correct, it is a safety issue. If I were the one that needed help, my wife could not clear the blockage.


EDIT: I'd offer to nail a board across the bottom as a simple fix {grin}, as suggested earlier in this thread, but guaranteed the carport would collapse and then it would be my problem to replace it.


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## 88-tek (Nov 5, 2017)

Hmmm....big heavy chain,...big heavy chain wrapped around corner post of carport,...big heavy truck attached to chain...big heavy truck starts to pull forward...
:devil:


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

I promise, pulling it down would not be difficult. I have to be careful NOT to knock it down anyway. The 580SK wouldn't even feel it.


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## Ariensboy (Apr 2, 2019)

He's not very neighborly. I would suggest he gets a plow service for his mess. Or you could offer your services if you like for an unusually high price so as to keep his wonderful neighbors safe in case of an emergency. This is a road (driveway) and must be open for emergency responders! Just my opinion


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Here's why I have to be careful not to knock down his carport....


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## thefixer (Nov 19, 2017)

You need an angle blade on your tractor then when you go by it to clear the road you can give him all his snow back!


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

Hopefully Mother Nature will help you out by providing a heavy snowfall to eliminate that carport.


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## Lunta (Dec 14, 2017)

Greg13 said:


> Try showing him the picture so he knows what you are up against. perhaps he will work with you and offer up a solution. It is a safety hazard should emergency vehicles have to try and get through.


This!

And if it doesn't work, get a legal letter sent to your neighbour which states that should their snow restrict access for emergency vehicles, and your house burns down, you will pursue damages in court.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

thefixer said:


> You need an angle blade on your tractor then when you go by it to clear the road you can give him all his snow back!


It does have one. I designed an articulated blade based on a nine foot wide highway blade. That photo is from several years ago before I had a local welder friend build the articulated attachment. It connects into the 4-in-1 bucket hydraulic circuit when it's attached so I can rotate it from the cab. That's how I push the fallen ice back under their carport, at least to the extent that the blade can reach... but it's limited by the height of the ROPS and the low height of the carport, which of course is lowest on the road side.


After making a pass to push the fallen ice under the carport, there's still plenty that doesn't slide sideways off the blade. That then gets piled in the parking space next to the carport.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

aldfam4 said:


> Hopefully Mother Nature will help you out by providing a heavy snowfall to eliminate that carport.


 We got 20+ inches a couple of weekends ago. Much of what's falling off now is from that. We've had a bunch of rain too, which has filled up the snow, and the roof bowed noticeably with that load but hasn't fallen from the weight yet.

If 20+ inches of super-heavy, rain filled snow didn't take it out, it may be too strong. It's ugly but functional.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Lunta said:


> And if it doesn't work, get a legal letter sent to your neighbour which states that should their snow restrict access for emergency vehicles, and your house burns down, you will pursue damages in court.


I will try talking with them again. I don't want to escalate it to a letter, that makes for very bad neighborly relations. Hopefully the photo will make it more real for them, rather than them just thinking it's a naggy neighbor.


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## SayItAintSnow (Dec 15, 2017)

IDE'

There's always the "Tony Soprano" approach.....
"Hey....nice carport ya' got there. Be a shame if somethin' were to happen to it." :devil:
.
.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

If I had a tractor like that any excuse to use it. But I don’t know your situation and how often it occurs 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

IDEngineer said:


> I will try talking with them again. I don't want to escalate it to a letter, that makes for very bad neighborly relations. Hopefully the photo will make it more real for them, rather than them just thinking it's a naggy neighbor.


I doubt keeping neighborly relationships will motivate your neighbor to spend big bucks to remedy the problem you face. My opinion is this is a legal issue that requires help from your town.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

foggysail said:


> My opinion is this is a legal issue that requires help from your town.


The base problem there is it's private property. We have an easement but as I recall it places no requirement on them to clear snow or otherwise maintain access. I will review those documents again, but lacking something in the easement there's little the county can do. Hence my hope that "honey instead of vinegar" will be successful. They are doing some remodeling of their house at the moment, so perhaps we can make it part of that project. Or maybe one of their subcontrators will hit the carport....


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## kemlyn (Oct 16, 2018)

*Metal roof sno fix*

I have a metal roof over a porch and it would release snow and freeze solid to the cold granite steps. I installed Polar Blox no drilling you need the the seam gap of the meal channels there are a few sizes mine were 20 inch seams.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

Funny you should mention snow breaks/retainers/etc. We had them on our house when we first bought it. A couple of years later during a heavy winter, the snow compacted on the roof, formed ice around the snow breaks and other roof penetrations like DWV pipes, and when it finally released it tore everything off the roof with it. Cut the ABS and sheet metal pipes off at roof level like a giant plane had been drawn across them. The "industrial grade" snow brakes ended up as piles of worthless scrap on the ground, still screwed to large pieces of roof sheathing. Went I went into the attic to survey the damage, I had wide open patches of sky in the roof from where the snow brakes had literally torn apart the roof sheathing.

I fixed everything that year. Tore off the destroyed metal roofing panels, carefully cut and patched the wood sheathing and asphalt paper underneath, replaced and repaired all the damaged penetrations, everything. It was back to perfect, like nothing ever happened. And I told my wife that I would never do it again, if it happened a second time I was going to completely redesign the roof.

It happened again the next winter.

So, this time I filed an insurance claim and I completely redesigned the roof, using the insurance settlement to buy the materials. The bathroom/kitchen/etc. air vents were redirected to gables. All the separate DWV pipes were combined in the attic to a single vent which exited at the very peak of the roof (so no snow or ice could form above it). The combustion gas vent from the water heater was also relocated to the peak of the roof. This left me with exactly two roof penetrations, at the peak where nothing could form behind them. I then had those penetrations exit through the roof via two pieces of 1/4in wall galvanized conduit. Each piece of conduit extends several feet down into the attic where it is tied to multiple roof trusses via unichannel struts. Any forces on them (which can't be large anyway) are distributed across multiples pieces of steel supported by multiple trusses. The associated vent pipes then connect to the bottoms of these galvanized steel pipes. I replaced the roof sheathing where the old penetrations were previously located, and then reroofed with metal roof panels that have completely hidden screws (each panel's screws are covered by the next panel snapping down over them). Only the very end pieces have a handful of exposed screwheads, where I used ultra-low-profile screws.

The result is a roof that is almost entirely smooth, with literally nothing for snow nor ice to grab onto. All edges run vertically along the natural gravity drain/slide line of the roof. The only two remaining penetrations are at the peak so snow and ice cannot form behind/above them, and even if it did the pipes are so strong, and so well coupled to the structure, that I cannot imagine the force that would be necessary to affect them. This roof system has been in place for the last 10+ years. Nothing has ever happened since (despite some epic snowfalls and ice storms) and I sleep very well at night. I might worry about other things, but no longer worry about the roof.

We had a contractor do some remodeling of the upper story a couple of years ago. My very first instruction to him, which I put in writing in the contract and had him initial separately, was "NO NEW ROOF PENETRATIONS AND NO SNOW BRAKES."

The moral of the story is: Snow brakes might be fine for someone else's carport, but I will never install them (or permit them to be installed) on a structure of my own ever again.


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## Dannoman (Jan 16, 2018)

Get some fake law firm stationery and send them a legally-worded notice advising them that they are violating your right to peace and enjoyment of your property. Send it via Registered Mail. Advise them to amend the structure within 6 months or face further legal action.


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## johnwick (Dec 16, 2019)




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## Bulldogge (Nov 1, 2017)

I would probably get the snowblower out blast all that snow through a window of their house & now it's their problem.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

You could pile the snow in their driveway, or offer a suggestion on the roof slope.


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## justadbeer (Oct 17, 2019)

Honestly, after reading all these posts I have but one question. Did you walk over and talk to the people in a civilized manor? Maybe go over in the summer with a few cold ones and show him your pics. Tell him how this is stressing you out and creating so much extra work for you. You did mention that changing the slope of the roof is pretty much kids play for you. Maybe offer to help him change the roof slope one weekend. From the looks of it, it's just a simple few hour job. Unless he's a total dick, (and keeping to yourself does not constitute that) I can't see anyone not being sympathetic to your situation. ****, if it were me, I'd even pick up the tab to do it just to sweeten the pot.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

He's a bit of an odd duck, which makes this more challenging. When they first bought the place they were super friendly, their kids were great, loved their dog, etc. But then one July 4th his kids and their friends started launching bottle rockets off their dock and they were landing IN MY BOAT, on the upholstery, etc. So I strolled over to talk about that - maintaining a positive attitude, I swear - and he was several deep into a 6 (maybe 12) pack. Basically he said "talk to my kids about it". That's what I was specifically trying to avoid, the image of an adult man calling out someone else's kids for bad behavior.

I'm not sure if he was embarrassed by that incident, but things cooled a lot after that day. No more friendly waving upon arrival/departure, no cheerful hellos on the beach, etc. Any time we try to play with their dog - only when it strolls over to us, mind you - he calls it back quickly. His wife remains friendly but anytime I'm talking to her he just sort of "shows up" and as soon as he's there the conversation cools quickly.

UNLESS... he has something to complain about, or ask of, me! Like telling me how to pile his snow on his property. How the super-heavy-snow years block his walkway and it's all my fault because I'm keeping the road open. Or when they were going to thin trees and the logging company needed to bring their equipment and the felled trees across our property. We were totally OK with that, and I'm glad he asked first, but the point is that there's definitely two sides to this guy.

I've talked to him, with and without his wife, about the carport situation. They openly admit it's backwards, but like I said even when they had the chance to correct it they left it the same way.

Ironically, they are having their kitchen remodeled right now and I saw their contractor shoveling out the ice berm in front of the carport, so I walked over for a chat. I wanted to make sure he understood I'm not being a jerk, I'm doing the best I can given the (lack of) carport height and the amount of snow it dumps. He instantly admitted the carport is screwed up, and doesn't blame me. So I suggested that while he is upgrading the kitchen he could fix the carport too! He laughed and said he might actually bill the guy for having to shovel all the ice for his truck. I'm hoping he floats the carport remodel idea to the owner, like I have, and hearing it from multiple people starts him thinking about it.

Yes, I'd be happy to help him do it. I have all the tools. It might even rebuild the relationship. However, my one hesitation is that if I help, I might get blamed if something goes wrong later (like the thing collapses). The original posts are old and questionable, who knows how long they're going to last (I'm not even sure they're pressure treated). I've found that folks like this look for someone else to blame when things go sideways, and I don't want to be on the hook for that.

Neighbor problems are difficult. I'm trying to navigate the minefield without making the problem worse. I do appreciate the ideas.


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

Well, it sounds like you are doing the right thing. I've had a neighbor who was like that; nice as long as he was getting his own way. He would wave and chat for a few words and that was all I could expect. When he sold the house, the new young couple won't wave or even speak so I have ended up appreciating the old neighbor. I guess you will have to keep on plowing that road and he probably won't fix the carport roof. But, in keeping your cool and doing the right thing you are living well.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

I'm tempted to suggest HE install snow brakes, but if "something goes wrong" he could still blame me. No real good solutions other than back-channeling the suggestion of redoing his carport, perhaps making him feel foolish for not doing it.


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

Yes, back-channeling the suggestion of redoing the carport is probably the only way here. He sounds like he does not " feel foolish" for anyone. I think that firework story showed that he's pretty self-centered and intractable.


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

Next time he comes over chain one of the carport post to the tow hook on his vehicle. Just a thought! 🤪


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

I'm thinking about a Vermonter's response when your neighbor complains about your plowing job. "Eh, what? Yeah, that snow keeps falling off your carport onto the road." Just a short, curt, dry answer if he decides to complain again. And you can repeat that to him a second time.


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

I remember this thread...I entered it hoping for hilarious pictures of the carport all collapsed.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

tlshawks said:


> I remember this thread...I entered it hoping for hilarious pictures of the carport all collapsed.


I, too, remember those pictures and wondered if he ever came to a solution.
I also looked to see if the OP was still anywhere near active, lest I offend.  
He was on 23 days ago. I hope this meets the acceptable criteria.


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