# Rant Post About Negligent Snowblower Owners



## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

sorry , but I have to get this off my chest.

We have had big snow in the last couple weeks and recently days in the single digits and I like helping people in need but lately it is becoming ridiculous.

Some people ........a neighbor of mine blew a drive belt on a 25 year old Honda HS828. He asks me to replace. He has no garage , it's snowing , and the wind chill is around ZERO!. I asked him when was the last time he serviced his blower and he responds " like never?" ( actual quote )

This is just one story.I have others but I'm sure I am not alone.

Yes, I understand . Am sure some of you will tell me I should just walk away from people like this and not help them. It's just frustrating because 95% of the problems I see is because of NEGLECT and ABUSE.

I guess this is the bread and butter for small engine techs but like my mother use to say " no good deed goes unpunished " .


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## Natty Bumpo (Jan 21, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> sorry , but I have to get this off my chest.
> 
> We have had big snow in the last couple weeks and recently days in the single digits and I like helping people in need but lately it is becoming ridiculous.
> 
> ...




OK, I have a HONDA HS828 of approximately the same vintage; bot previously owned 20 years ago. It goes back to a top shelf dealer for tune-up, lubrication and general service every 3-4 years. I change the engine oil every year. It has been a strong machine wo/ any major issues for a very long time. And running strong this year too. 


So, when is the drive belt on a HS828 due for replacement ??


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

The newer generation is basically helpless. They don't own a shovel or a rake. They don't do anything for themselves. There are hordes of landscapers all over. Not much do it yourself. So I guess the net income is lower than we would think. Yeah they are dependent.
Sid


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## Dag Johnsen (Dec 24, 2018)

Natty Bumpo said:


> OK, I have a HONDA HS828 of approximately the same vintage; bot previously owned 20 years ago. It goes back to a top shelf dealer for tune-up, lubrication and general service every 3-4 years. I change the engine oil every year. It has been a strong machine wo/ any major issues for a very long time. And running strong this year too.
> 
> 
> So, when is the drive belt on a HS828 due for replacement ??


 
Last year perhaps? :wink2: Why not change belts every 3-4 years when the machine is serviced?


Yesterday I had to loan my Simplicity to a neighbor that has a very troublesome Toro 826. People do not care about their machines at all.


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

I joined a in-town group in Facebook and posted that I do house calls for snowblower maintenance. $20 per call +parts/materials. Working out great for me, a couple jobs a week, cash in pocket. Shmucks that wait till snow is a day away and it won’t start and they call a shop that’s booked weeks out.


Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


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## tonylumps (Jul 31, 2018)

Dag Johnsen said:


> Last year perhaps? :wink2: Why not change belts every 3-4 years when the machine is serviced?
> 
> 
> Yesterday I had to loan my Simplicity to a neighbor that has a very troublesome Toro 826. People do not care about their machines at all.


Believe me you are leaving yourself open for a lawsuit.If you do not have the time to do his driveway Tell him to get someone who is insured.Never lend out power equipment.I almost got it good one time.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Natty Bumpo said:


> OK, I have a HONDA HS828 of approximately the same vintage; bot previously owned 20 years ago. It goes back to a top shelf dealer for tune-up, lubrication and general service every 3-4 years. I change the engine oil every year. It has been a strong machine wo/ any major issues for a very long time. And running strong this year too.
> 
> 
> So, when is the drive belt on a HS828 due for replacement ??


just inspect it periodically for cuts and defects.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

e.fisher26 said:


> I joined a in-town group in Facebook and posted that I do house calls for snowblower maintenance. $20 per call +parts/materials. Working out great for me, a couple jobs a week, cash in pocket. Shmucks that wait till snow is a day away and it won’t start and they call a shop that’s booked weeks out.
> 
> 
> Noma 10/29
> ...


good for you. i bet you know what I am talking about. it just makes me shake my head though.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

tonylumps said:


> Believe me you are leaving yourself open for a lawsuit.If you do not have the time to do his driveway Tell him to get someone who is insured.Never lend out power equipment.I almost got it good one time.


you're right. it's sad we have to think this way anymore just trying to help a neighbor out. my wife told me to stop helping people or have them sign a release of liability form and a receipt.

I guess I'll just have to stop selling and helping.


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

I tend to help people that help themselves. I am also "that guy" that friends know that although I may not necessarily know how something works as far as specifics or training/experience in it - they also know I know how to research just about anything and can give an honest opinion what needs to be done. Or more accurately, "this is what I would do if I were in your shoes" type stuff.

However, I've helped friends with fixing their plumbing, electrical, electronics/computers, vehicles, boats, home repair, outdoor power equipment, etc. Generally speaking, those I actually "did work for them" - I did so because of the type of people they were. I knew them well and I knew they weren't asking me to take advantage of me. They genuinely both needed help, and it was something usually not terribly involved nor complex for me. In every case, I knew it very well and they didn't.

I've helped "strangers" in the past...neighbors mostly. But generally, never anything that actually needed much more than advice.


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

Yep, it sucks sometimes to be helpful. But I'm betting you are glad you were.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

I believe it’s a generation thing. If no one teaches you that machines require maint and the importance of it and maybe how to do it. You won’t know or do and your children /grandchildren won’t know or do. Maybe it’s a certain part of the brain. Remember when people changed oil in their rides. Jiffy lubes everywhere now so we who do are the minority. Like my younger brother says about human nature. “Given the opportunity to be lazy, people will choose this route”. 

My teenage daughter has watched /helped me change oil , brakes, exchange fluids on our cars, remodeled kitchen, repair appliances etc. I hope that she will be able to Do instead of having to rely on others to Do for her. 

What seems so simply and common knowledge to us is like rocket knowledge to 99% 

I also think are world is full of mostly disposable products. Repair shops for drills,vacuums, and power equipment are few and expensive considering what replacement would cost. That is why our gnp is consumer spending and no longer manufacturing 

Here is a picture of some human nature a toro 3650 rotor assembly that weld cracked at side plate. Notice the hole is now twice the size of the shaft. when it originally failed a simple weld would fix $ Since it’s owner used it broken for long time it is a big hole and big repair $$$ for me










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

groomerz said:


> I believe it’s a generation thing. If no one teaches you that machines require maint and the importance of it and maybe how to do it. You won’t know or do and your children /grandchildren won’t know or do.


It's not *just* that, though. My dad was a scientist, and NOT a hands-on, DIY person. Stuff didn't really get fixed. Or at least not fixed properly. 

But I taught myself with books from the library (pre-internet), by getting my hands dirty, and now with the vast resources online. So you certainly *can* pick this stuff up, even if you don't have anyone around to show you in-person.


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## AriensProMike (Dec 2, 2014)

This was parked 10 years ago because of a flat tire. By far one of worst roted machine I have seen.


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## Dag Johnsen (Dec 24, 2018)

*today*



tonylumps said:


> Believe me you are leaving yourself open for a lawsuit.If you do not have the time to do his driveway Tell him to get someone who is insured.Never lend out power equipment.I almost got it good one time.


Today I did it myself (my neighbors parking):smile2:


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

Nice photo... amazing amount of snow. I would like that for 1 day... maybe 🙂

And a random act of snowblower kindness.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I'm not making this up.

People have called or messaged me a facebook to come out in storm conditions to change a $1 shear pin for the augers or the $4 pin for the impeller. If they were a friend or relative I would do it fast. But strangers , no. I have even been offered $40 -50 dollars to do it and still say no.

I tell them to ask their neighbors. since most blowers around here are Honda's , I am sure a neighbor has an extra shear pin. People don't know their neighbors anymore. Or I tell them to wait for the end of the storm and go to the dealer to get shear pins the next day. He is only about 5 miles from everyone in town.

I would tell them to pick up a shovel but I think they would take that the wrong way. ****, I shoveled my driveway until I was 55 and then bought my first snowblower.

good exercise.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

orangputeh said:


> I guess this is the bread and butter for small engine techs but like my mother use to say " no good deed goes unpunished " .


Hey, look on the bright side. People like that are "job security" for small engine techs.:smile2:


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Yeah, orangputeh, but shoveling sucks  

I was less than half that age when I discovered how helpful snowblowers are, and I sure wouldn't want to be without mine now. Perhaps that makes me somewhat lazy, in addition to not wanting to hurt myself. I'm ok with that  

But you shouldn't have to go make a trip because someone didn't want to keep a few dollars of spare parts on hand. Of course, making it a paid trip would help, at least.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

WVguy said:


> Hey, look on the bright side. People like that are "job security" for small engine techs.:smile2:


I understand that. I just try to help out some people and sometimes it is just not worth it. my wife said that people are taking advantage.


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

orangputeh said:


> I'm not making this up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Being offered $40-50 to change a shear pin is a good day for me, lol


Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


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## sturgissteele (Feb 7, 2019)

Often times I'd like to help my neighbors across the street since they're getting up there in years, but they both have blowers and I think they still enjoy it. So until they just can't do it anymore, I'll have to wait. 

Another neighbor across the corner from me recently moved to Arizona. He called a few weeks back and asked if I could take care of the drive and walk for him until the house sells; sure! glad too.

Neighbor to the north, I just clear his walk out front. I figure I'm already out here, might as well go a little further. He returned the favor last snow fall and that was nice of him. 

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

e.fisher26 said:


> Being offered $40-50 to change a shear pin is a good day for me, lol
> 
> 
> Noma 10/29
> ...


I guess if i needed the money I would do it since they are the ones who offered it. I buy shear pins 100 at a time and give them away.


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## Cutter (Mar 29, 2017)

trellis said:


> Nice photo... amazing amount of snow. I would like that for 1 day... maybe 🙂
> 
> And a random act of snowblower kindness.



I use my snowblower to bring people together, believe it or not. When we moved to this neighborhood, people were very standoffish....everybody kept to themselves . I spread some generosity around by doing a few driveways, and always turning down payment. Today we are a closer neighborhood because of it. At least,that's my meager opinion. I talk often with neighbors around the block, and have become known as the guy who helps people.I am proud to be able to do that....I like helping people. :angel::wink2:


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## blowman (Feb 6, 2019)

Sid said:


> The newer generation is basically helpless. They don't own a shovel or a rake. They don't do anything for themselves. There are hordes of landscapers all over. Not much do it yourself. So I guess the net income is lower than we would think. Yeah they are dependent.
> Sid


I wouldn't say the newer generation is all helpless. I think a lot of it is that what adults expect of children has changed and all the tech now does not help either. I don't have a garage either, but either summer or fall I service my blower and I will service out my Toro Personal Pace mower in the basement this winter or early spring. I keep spares for my 2 belts on my blower also just in case the ones on the blower that I inspected and thought looked good aren't so good. 
One question not pertaining to this thread about my Personal Pace mower. I might need to bring it to shop. The mower is like it goes into a slow run for about maybe a minute or two while mowing. Same height grass as the rest of yard where it ran full speed. Not a surge, but it just slows way down and runs like that for a minute or two and then speeds up again to normal. I will pull bowl off carb and clean jet and see if maybe water issue in gas. I added one of those little red mesh filters inline on my fuel line, could that be the issue. I got so sick of cleaning the jet on my ex's mower that I put one on each of our mowers and asked her to also filter her gas through a coleman lantern funnel when she fills her. this prob with my motor has me perplexed and i might just take it to shop if I can't get it figured out. The mower is a Toro personal Pace Model 20334, Serial number 310017498.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I think you'd be much better off creating a new thread, since this is a totally different topic. 

But is the engine slowing, or the drive system? The red filter shouldn't cause a problem, assuming it's not plugged with something. But even then, I'd expect it to cause trouble all the time, or when the engine is really working hard, using more fuel. Not randomly. If you loosen the gas cap (in case it's not venting properly), does anything change?


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## blowman (Feb 6, 2019)

RedOctobyr said:


> I think you'd be much better off creating a new thread, since this is a totally different topic.
> 
> But is the engine slowing, or the drive system? The red filter shouldn't cause a problem, assuming it's not plugged with something. But even then, I'd expect it to cause trouble all the time, or when the engine is really working hard, using more fuel. Not randomly. If you loosen the gas cap (in case it's not venting properly), does anything change?


I'll create different thread. My apologies.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

OK I read some of the posts recommending changing belts, at least one suggested possibly making the change every 3 years or so.

WHY????? What is sooooo different about a snowblower belt than the belts used in every car, truck or bus that lasts easily over 100K miles and maybe much longer. If one needs to change a snowblower belt there are other problems causing the belt to require replacement. I suggest finding the cause rather than just changing the belts.

Now to annual maintenance. OK, one could start with lubrication, make sure there are spare shear pins available and of course there is the constant carburetor problems caused by not draining the carbs in the spring. Maybe check tire pressures, try starting the thing to make sure it will run when needed. Many times I have taken a can of carburetor cleaning and sprayed half or more into the gas tank. I find that helps.

So I am not a pro, this though is what I have been doing now for over the last 40 years. It works for me


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

The constant start and stop wears belts faster on a snowblower, cars run along time at constant or slowly varying rpm


Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

orangputeh said:


> I guess if i needed the money I would do it since they are the ones who offered it. I buy shear pins 100 at a time and give them away.



Guys who are working their buns off trying to earn a buck IMHO should not do things free. Around here if one takes his car to a repair shop the cost is going to be $80+/hour. It costs money to run a business even for the small guys. Further, if people begin to believe that you’re a soft touch, you will never be without free work. You should give more thought about charging for your services especially for service calls, minimum to get there plus an hourly rate after you get there.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

e.fisher26 said:


> The constant start and stop wears belts faster on a snowblower, cars run along time at constant or slowly varying rpm
> 
> 
> Noma 10/29
> ...



You and I have different thoughts pertaining to belts. Consider a timing belt for example where an engine many, many times sits running at 800RPM idling and then is suddenly accelerated to over 3000RPMs. Those belts are subjected to mechanical stress and still last well over 100K miles. I find my car engine immediately shows sign of a load placed on it when my AC pump is activated. And belts are not restricted to only automotive applications, they see constant use in almost all industrial equipments.


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## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

foggysail said:


> You and I have different thoughts pertaining to belts. Consider a timing belt for example where an engine many, many times sits running at 800RPM idling and then is suddenly accelerated to over 3000RPMs. Those belts are subjected to mechanical stress and still last well over 100K miles. I find my car engine immediately shows sign of a load placed on it when my AC pump is activated. And belts are not restricted to only automotive applications, they see constant use in almost all industrial equipments.


Most automotive belts have a far wider area of contact which reduces stress. The load is also constant which makes this an apples to oranges comparison. A snow blower uses maybe a 3/8" or 1/2" wide belt to take a wide range of loads. Consider its mechanical stress of merely free spinning then add in the stresses of chopping snow/ice, feeding it in, then throwing it with the amounts always varying.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

e.fisher26 said:


> The constant start and stop wears belts faster on a snowblower, cars run along time at constant or slowly varying rpm





foggysail said:


> You and I have different thoughts pertaining to belts. Consider a timing belt for example where an engine many, many times sits running at 800RPM idling and then is suddenly accelerated to over 3000RPMs. Those belts are subjected to mechanical stress and still last well over 100K miles. I find my car engine immediately shows sign of a load placed on it when my AC pump is activated. And belts are not restricted to only automotive applications, they see constant use in almost all industrial equipments.


I don't want to speak for someone else, but I thought e.fisher26 was referring to the snowblower belts frequently being engaged/disengaged. Your car isn't typically removing tension from a belt to let it stop, then restoring tension (with the engine already spinning at full speed), to suddenly yank the belt into motion again. That engagement process must involve some slipping at the belt comes up to speed, for instance. 

I'm not a belts expert, but *if* engaging them while spinning is a wear factor, then that action probably happens a lot more on a snowblower than even other pieces of outdoor equipment. On my lawn tractor, I slow the engine down, then gradually engage the blades belt. This usually only happens once per mowing session. But for snowblowing, the belt is engaged/disengaged many times per session, with the engine at full speed, and sometimes there may still be residual snow in the augers/impeller, adding to that startup load. 


I don't typically replace my 2-stage belts proactively, but I keep spares on-hand.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Could it be that the belts used on snowblowers are under rated for the machines HP?


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

foggysail said:


> Could it be that the belts used on snowblowers are under rated for the machines HP?


Probably not, more likely lots of user error. The original belts on my Honda HS80 lasted over 25 years.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

orangputeh said:


> I asked him when was the last time he serviced his blower and he responds " like never?" ( actual quote )


I've never understood people like that, but I guess it is all in the perspective? I didn't get to use a powered lawn mower until I was 14 or 15, before that (starting at the age of 8 or 10) I mowed the grass with a hand-powered reel mower, so a mower with a gas engine was living in luxury indeed! While we weren't living in abject poverty, luxuries were few and far between so I made darn sure to take good care of that mower because I knew I'd be pushing that reel mower if it broke, and especially if it was my fault.

So I studied the owner's manual and followed maintenance directions exactly. Every fall it got an oil change and a bit of oil in the cylinder, gas tank emptied and carburetor run dry. No storage shed, so the only cover it had was an old shower curtain held in place with rocks and bricks.

That mower was bought in 1964 or '65, and I used it until the deck rusted through in about 1983, for a few years mowing four or five lawns a season with it. When I bought my own house it mowed that yard and my mother's (Dad had since passed away by then). That old Briggs was burning some oil by then but it still started and ran reliably with no issues.

So to me it is nearly sacrilege to deliberately mistreat or neglect any machinery and in the world I came from "it just isn't done". But I guess if one comes from an environment where OPE is disposable then that's how it is treated.

That's what creates the bargains though, when someone throws out a thousand-dollar snowblower 'cause it won't start and all it needed was fresh fuel. And when that happens it goes (usually) to someone who will appreciate it and take care of it, as I most certainly would have, had I been lucky enough to get one of those.


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## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

tabora said:


> Probably not, more likely lots of user error. The original belts on my Honda HS80 lasted over 25 years.


No. I'll tell you right now Honda belts (usually supplied by Mitsuboshi) are generally very robust and of awesome quality compared to most other consumer brands. That's a Honda thing though. Most other companies rely on a cheaper construction (rubber layers with a poly stitching and a laminated backing). The exposed rubber wears and cracks quite fast. The better belts, like the Mitsuboshi, have a thick fabric cover. Don't forget these companies are also in the business of selling you parts.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

I had belts on my Ariens that were 20+ years old and still had plenty of life left in them.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

a friend called the other day and said blower wasn't blowing snow. asked him some questions and determined that it was the impeller pin. described it and location and he said it was there.

so drove over and he had half machine apart. the light attached to belt cover, the belt cover , the augers out , the handle bars ( kidding )

the impeller shear bolt was missing of course. he was looking at the bolt that attaches impeller to auger gearbox . I told him on phone where the impeller pin was located.

so 30 minutes later we had it all put back together for a $4 shear. god take me.....


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## Lottstodo (Feb 16, 2018)

I have one guy that owns 2 big blowers both less than 5 yr old one a Big toro the other a 32 Ariens. Now mind you that these blowers are used commercially and do follow up cleaning behind his 3 plow trucks .This guy has 4 vehicles in the family and he prides himself as to doing all the maintenance on his vehicles. he uses mobil1 oil in his trucks and cars. So when he changes his oil in a vehicle he puts the old oil in his blowers and tractor/mowers. the only new/fresh oil either blower has seen is the oil that was in it when it came from the dealer.
I learned this after him wanting to know why he is getting smoke out the exhaust on his blowers when the engine is first started and as well when it changes speeds. ?????? I told him junk oil is junk oil! He said but its been running through a filter in the cars.

So is it really NEGLECT OR TOTAL STUPIDITY ???? I vote both. 

Oh yea he wants me to see if I can find a buyer for them........ I politely told him that he can sell them himself.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Oof. Maybe that's fine, but it sure seems like penny wise, pound foolish, to me. Saving a few $ on oil, but risking something bad happening, doesn't seem like my idea of a great trade off.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

Lottstodo said:


> So is it really NEGLECT OR TOTAL STUPIDITY ????


Ron White said it:


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

I have a place for my old oil and it’s not in snowblowers or lawnmowers. I pour the stuff right into my 500 gallon fuel tank, it gets mixed with clean new oil and processed as fuel for my boiler. There are problems around here pertaining to disposing old oil. Some years ago the crazies found that the state approved company that hauled old oil away from gas stations for a fee, disposed it illegally. I forgot all the details relating to how the hauler was punished.

What I do remember is the company was punished AND THE GAS STATIONS THAT USED THE STATE APPROVED DISPOSAL SERVICE WERE EACH FINED for the illegal disposal because it was THEIR responsibility to see that the used oil was properly disposed of. CRAZY!


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

I think totally CHEAP...



Lottstodo said:


> I have one guy that owns 2 big blowers both less than 5 yr old one a Big toro the other a 32 Ariens. Now mind you that these blowers are used commercially and do follow up cleaning behind his 3 plow trucks .This guy has 4 vehicles in the family and he prides himself as to doing all the maintenance on his vehicles. he uses mobil1 oil in his trucks and cars. So when he changes his oil in a vehicle he puts the old oil in his blowers and tractor/mowers. the only new/fresh oil either blower has seen is the oil that was in it when it came from the dealer.
> I learned this after him wanting to know why he is getting smoke out the exhaust on his blowers when the engine is first started and as well when it changes speeds. ?????? I told him junk oil is junk oil! He said but its been running through a filter in the cars.
> 
> So is it really NEGLECT OR TOTAL STUPIDITY ???? I vote both.
> ...


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

I NEVER understood putting used oil in another machine. Absolutely dumb. I recognize the difficulty at times of disposing of the oil properly, but to me that is just an excuse for laziness. My dad never really said it, but he certainly lived the mantra of do it right or don't do it.


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