# Snow Blower season at the town dump!



## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

it has started. between two trips today, someone had dropped off a possibly very nice 824 (932100) unit. by the time i got to it the buzzards had already visited! would have been nice to get it complete. that said, i had to take the remainders home. still lots of meat on the bones. comments?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Some pics:


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

wow, will be interesting to find out what the problems were.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

the vultures took the whole chute assembly and the wheels, at least. the gear box was split and empty. speculate a damaged gear box (maybe gobbled up a brick?). may have arrived with the augers and impeller loose (i looked up the model on a parts site, just one auger side retails for $250). the engine looks fine, missing the carb. has compression. fresh gas smell. the housing metal is in great shape. augers 
and impeller look almost new. wish i had seen it arrive, could have talked to the owner.

not sure what the year is yet. anyone know of the search engine for that?


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## Patrick0525 (Dec 24, 2020)

Who ever split up the snowblower did all the hard work. A local shop would charge big money to split open everything and investigate an issue.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Can't believe what people throw away. 

Great score, the sheet metal, augers and impeller look like new.

The machine is approximately 20 years old (around 2000).


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

In the belly of the beast. Comments welcome.

disappointed, this could have been a nice upgrade to my 724. Not familiar enough with all that is missing.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Give the bucket a 9/10. More dust than rust. A little wear on the shoes.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

So, any 824 experts out there? Would like to break down exactly hat is missing. Will provide pics! This thing is too nice to even part out!


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

the dump attendant knows the person who took some stuff. may have to see about buying it back 

so, excluding the chute assembly and wheels, would like to understand what big pieces remain missing. obviously will need a new auger gear box (i have the outer casings, and the impeller has something attached). the carb unit appears totally missing (what else there?). two threaded holes on top, not sure about those. pics below:


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Personally, I feel that it would take more cash to buy the missing parts than it would be worth. On the other hand, to sell off the parts that you have would probably enough money to buy a very decent machine.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

if this was roached, i wouldn't have snagged it. is is very clean, looks like low miles. besides tracking down the removed parts, i can also look for a complete unit on Facebook/craigslist to salvage the missing parts. if this is a 20 yr old model, i could pay 0-50 for an example. buying new parts is last resort.

wonder if other models have interchangeable parts with this unit?


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## Jesse11B (Jan 27, 2020)

I like the finding another cheap unit idea, and using the other for parts.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

RIT333 said:


> Personally, I feel that it would take more cash to buy the missing parts than it would be worth. On the other hand, to sell off the parts that you have would probably enough money to buy a very decent machine.


what are the best ways to part out snowblowers?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Jesse11B said:


> I like the finding another cheap unit idea, and using the other for parts.


i may have missed some parts at the dump. i don't know how it arrived. i see i'm missing the side cover, choke knob/key, probably some other small parts.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

that definitely looks like a nice machine but would cost more to repair than it is worth. definitely might be cheaper to find a machine in rough shape to use as parts. i know there is a ariens 5520 not too far from me that needs a auger gear which you have to buy in a kit with a new impeller shaft which i think it would cost at least $200-250 in parts to repair for a machine that you could find in working condition for about $200-400 depending on condition. i have been tempted to low ball the guy because i could use some parts off it but what he wants is just too much for parts especially with the mild winters we have been having.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

rwh963 said:


> In the belly of the beast. Comments welcome.
> 
> disappointed, this could have been a nice upgrade to my 724. Not familiar enough with all that is missing.


All I can see down there that could be an issue is that the friction plate looks pretty chewed up. Otherwise, looks intact and in great shape. The biggest problem with that unit appears to be all the stupid it had to suffer through before it got to you. I kinda suspect that the friction plate kept it from moving (rubber wheel looks fine) and the owner just cramped up on changing it (or got fed a line of BS by his local shop . . . ).


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

You can tell the impeller was bent up pretty bad by the missing paint on the back side of it where it hit the housing.
That is a common problem when it takes in rocks that hit the impeller before being thrown out the shoot. It bends them downward and that bends the impeller disc/drum back into the housing by the missing paint on the black disc/drum.
That happens when the round sheet/plate part is made from thinner metal.
That is the older model 'Twin Shaft' engine that is becoming rare to find parts for.
A problem with that is it used a counter rotating shaft for one of the drives, so if you replace the engine with a single shaft, something is going to operate backwards, usually when you put it in gear to go forward, it will go in reverse instead. So you would have to put a 'Twin Shaft' engine on it or else do a lot of extra modifications to it to straighten out that problem.
I'm sure it would be a good parts machine for someone who has an older model like it just for some of the hard to find replacement parts.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

at a minimum you have some great parts. spring/summer pick up some more machines and make a great one out of several. 

SBA ( snowblower anonymous ) meets here 24/7 365


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

called Ariens, this one was produced May 2001.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ST1100A said:


> You can tell the impeller was bent up pretty bad by the missing paint on the back side of it where it hit the housing.
> That is a common problem when it takes in rocks that hit the impeller before being thrown out the shoot. It bends them downward and that bends the impeller disc/drum back into the housing by the missing paint on the black disc/drum.
> That happens when the round sheet/plate part is made from thinner metal.
> That is the older model 'Twin Shaft' engine that is becoming rare to find parts for.
> ...


thx for your contributions. you seem to be knowledgeable. regarding the impeller, you must be referring to a few shine bare metal spots on the backside. the impeller metal all looks straight though, don't see any damage. certainly possible an accident is what caused breakage in the gear case, thus rendering it unusable. the machine looks lightly used/well maintained. the oil and gas seem rather fresh. it doesn't seem like a stale machine, but a lightly used one, stored inside. it is about 20 years old.

you mention the twin shaft. is that an unusual configuration for ariens?

it would be nice to find a cheap donor model to get the engine running for a while. then scavenge all the missing hardware pieces great and small and have one nice machine (assuming the 2001 824 was a good machine).


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Responded to wrong topic . . .


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

rwh963 said:


> thx for your contributions. you seem to be knowledgeable. regarding the impeller, you must be referring to a few shine bare metal spots on the backside. the impeller metal all looks straight though, don't see any damage. certainly possible an accident is what caused breakage in the gear case, thus rendering it unusable. the machine looks lightly used/well maintained. the oil and gas seem rather fresh. it doesn't seem likestasle machine, but a lightly used one, stored inside. it is about 20 years old.
> 
> you mention the twin shaft. is that an unusual configuration for ariens?
> 
> it would be nice to find a cheap donor model to get the engine running for a while. then scavenge all the missing hardware pieces great and small and have one nice machine (assuming the 2001 824 was a good machine).


No reason at all that I see to indicate any engine issues, and most of those Tecs went 30+ years . . . If it is as low time as it seems, that hardly seems to be an issue, and certainly no issue to warrant considering a Chinese downgrade at this point. 

Were it mine, I'd build it back as stock and run it . . .


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

rwh963 said:


> thx for your contributions. you seem to be knowledgeable. regarding the impeller, you must be referring to a few shine bare metal spots on the backside. the impeller metal all looks straight though, don't see any damage. certainly possible an accident is what caused breakage in the gear case, thus rendering it unusable. the machine looks lightly used/well maintained. the oil and gas seem rather fresh. it doesn't seem like a stale machine, but a lightly used one, stored inside. it is about 20 years old.
> 
> you mention the twin shaft. is that an unusual configuration for ariens?
> 
> it would be nice to find a cheap donor model to get the engine running for a while. then scavenge all the missing hardware pieces great and small and have one nice machine (assuming the 2001 824 was a good machine).


I can see the bends in the impeller drum in the first picture. It can be straightened out pretty much without too much work. That is a very common problem, especially if it ever took in a mouth full of stones/rocks at one time. Even larger ice chunks will do that.
The machine doesn't look to be in bad shape. It looks to be a good rebuild-able project.
The 'Twin Shaft' engine was a common sight 20-30 years ago. Manufacturers stopped making them due to its more complicated design and cost to build. They weren't used on too many things, usually a specialized component engine use.
It looks like the engine parts you would need to get it running are common parts that should be able to find, either used or new, the special parts were the rear engine case cover and the camshaft that is used as the extra drive for the extra pulley that is counter rotating, all the other parts like the carburetor are the same as a regular engine.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

so you mean the impeller drum in the bucket. i thought you meant the impeller itself. i'll look at that. may be an optical illusion. are you looking at the 1-3 o'clock zone?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

The impeller itself. Some people call it a 'Drum' because it resembles a drum, but so does the area in the bucket.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i don't see any problem in the impeller housing or the impeller itself. are you saying the three blades should be straight instead of at a 45 degree angle? i'll have to check the other blowers. 

the engine started right up w/gas in plug hole and electric start.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

and btw, why was i able to start it up without the "key" inserted?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

btw, here is a pic of an impeller on ebay. looks the same as mine?


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## Husqvarna_10530SBE (Oct 9, 2015)

It looks like someone tried to drill the end of the impeller shaft where the impeller pulley is bolted on? Maybe the bolt broke and that is why the owner got rid of it?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Husqvarna_10530SBE said:


> It looks like someone tried to drill the end of the impeller shaft where the impeller pulley is bolted on? Maybe the bolt broke and that is why the owner got rid of it?


i noticed that. i don't know if that is normal or not. i'm not sure how the shaft is connected to the pulley; some sort of yoke?


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## Husqvarna_10530SBE (Oct 9, 2015)

From your other pictures the impeller shaft has a key that would slide into a groove inside the pulley bore. Then maybe a flat washer, lock washer and bolt hold the pulley in place. 

The bolt could have come loose and a wobbling pulley sheared the bolt off. Then someone tried to drill out the remaining bolt still in the impeller shaft. A possibility.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Btw, as if dealing with this dump pick and the free 10ML60 isn’t enough, I’m also dealing that Snowbird dinosaur! Just figured out how to remove the front flywheel cover to repair the starter cord that had to break shortly after getting it. Required unbolting the engine and lifting it about an inch🤬.
End result:


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

gonna spend some time at the dump in the blower area. might take some ground pics in case people here see things i don't. hopefully i can bring more parts home. who knows, maybe the chute will return!


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

in the 932 series, what other models would be considered direct donor machines? 724, 924, 1024? like to expand my search.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

dragged this home today, at least just for the wheels for the 824.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@rw,

You've surely been bitten by the affliction that most of us hear have .... blower fever.... 😊

I have to force myself to pass machines by, as I have no more room ...... Lol, I sold 4 blowers last fall, and filled the space quickly with another blower, a new JD tow behind core Plug aerator, and an old Ryan walk behind core Plug aerator which runs great, but needs a dismantle and repaint .... Love bringing this stuff back to life .... Being retired helps, as well as the knowledge and tools.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

oneacer said:


> @rw,
> 
> You've surely been bitten by the affliction that most of us year have .... blower fever.... 😊
> 
> I have to force myself to pass machines by, as I have no more room ...... Lol, I sold 4 blowers last fall, and filled the space quickly with another blower, a new JD tow behind core Plug aerator, and an old Ryan walk behind core Plug aerator which runs great, but needs a dismantle and repaint .... Love bringing this stuff back tho life .... Being retired helps, as well as the knowledge and tools.


Sounds like me. Glad to see you back. It is great taking a snowblower that was left for dead and bringing it back to life.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

update: just electronically purchased a one owner 20 yr old 824. looks to be fully equipped. regular service. looks like a excellent inexpensive mate to this dump find. hopefully make one nice 824 out of them. excited to see how it works out.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

couple pics of the purchased "donor" 824.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

almost looks too good and too complete to be a parts machine


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I would be bringing the donor back to life ........


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

You guys are killing me! Cost $50 plus transport.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Lol ...... Sure is addictive, isn't it ....😆


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

oneacer said:


> Lol ...... Sure is addictive, isn't it ....😆


well, over about the past month, i've picked up:

1963 ariens 10m-l60d
1963 snowbird s-263
2001 ariens 824 (dump)
MTD yard machine 31A and craftsman 536 (dump/part)
1965 ariens 10m-l60 (possible hybrid)
TBD 2000 ariens 824

out of pocket: less than $100 (so far).


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

picked up that donor 824. i'll be dealing with it over the next week or so.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

824 (932 series) update: dump pick much superior to $50 purchase, so going that way.

worked on this pair today. swapped the 15x carlisle tires over. removed the auger/impeller/gears from the donor. all parts there. unfortunately, again i have a seized rake! claims of regular maintenance not true. seems like one rake was greased and the other neglected. so, squeezed in grease through the zerks, and standing it up and giving it regular liquid wrench soaks. i'll add heat gun heat later. PLEASE LUBE AND SPIN YOUR RAKES PEOPLE (you must take the shear pins out for the spin).

also got two good belts from the donor. and operating manuals. and extra shears. the chute's intact, though some rust.

QUESTION: should i get any new bushings/bearings etc?

carb swap: the dump pick was missing the heater box and carb stuff including the governor(?). i started the $50 824. it ran rough, sounded like a bad muffler. but it did start, so i pulled the carb stuff. i did not take any set up pics though, and am not sure i got the rods correct. when i push the stop-fast lever, there is very little movement.

also, when i initially primed the dump 824 after the swap, fuel kept spilling out the butterfly choke area. the engine started, then sputtered out. now the primer does not seem to bring in any fuel. the primer line has suction (finger test), but not sucking fuel from the tank.

anyway, if any one has pics or info to contribute, i'm not stopping you!


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

The primer is not supposed to "suck fuel from the tank". It applies pressure into the float bowl to force fuel up the main jet into the carb. If the float isn't working right, and the carb is dry, there is nothing that the primer can do. Open that carb and make the trivial effort required to check and clean it!


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

thx for the reply. btw, its is not a "trivial effort" if one has never done it before. you may have done many, i've done zero. when i was first priming it, fuel was spilling out of the carb. the engine started, then died. after a few more similar experiences, no more fuel spilled out, and the engine would not run. so it may be that there was fuel in the bowl during the switch, which was used up (an aside, i'm surprised there was not a gas tank shut off at the tank or at the carb).

hitting the primer bulb is now not resulting in fuel flowing. a little stumped by that. did not touch any of the adjustments on the carb.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

crazzywolfie said:


> almost looks too good and too complete to be a parts machine


dump pick much nicer in reality.


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

Before you decide on paint colors, it needs to be set up correctly first to troubleshoot. The governor rod should be a straight run from gov shaft to the throttle arm. Yours is routed under the fuel line/nipple and the spring tensioned throttle arm is positioned incorrectly pointed down around 7 O'clock. It should be standing up, rod above fuel inlet. Search Donyboy 8-11hp Tecumseh on YT.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

when you get a Honda let me know. I need about 15 chassis's. The neighbor complained about all the junk in yard ( this is only part ) and I told him to build a fence.

gold to me.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

oneboltshort said:


> Before you decide on paint colors, it needs to be set up correctly first to troubleshoot. The governor rod should be a straight run from gov shaft to the throttle arm. Yours is routed under the fuel line/nipple and the spring tensioned throttle arm is positioned incorrectly pointed down around 7 O'clock. It should be standing up, rod above fuel inlet. Search Donyboy 8-11hp Tecumseh on YT.


thx for the comment. i will check that video. i was watching another 824 video last night that also showed it standing upright, so will address that soon.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

orangputeh said:


> when you get a Honda let me know. I need about 15 chassis's. The neighbor complained about all the junk in yard ( this is only part ) and I told him to build a fence.
> 
> gold to me.


oh yah, May is honda month at the town dump!


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

update: been a little while. decided to attach the empty bucket to the tractor so i can wheel it around easier and start and drive. remember, i had swapped the carb from the donor to this unit. the donor did not run so well, and this one is struggling, with the donor carb. it is 20 years old. gonna order a low cost replacement as a test. 

that said, it did start up on the third pull. drove pretty normal (light in the front, being empty). i also added the chute set up, and added a fuel shut off valve. the chute handle needs a protective grommet as it passes through the dashboard. any thoughts? was considering some of that door edge protector stuff.


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

rwh963 said:


> the chute handle needs a protective grommet as it passes through the dashboard. any thoughts? was considering some of that door edge protector stuff.


my ace hardware sells rubber grommets of various sizes in the "special parts" section.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Big box stores usually have an isle of drawers with all that odd stuff.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

cpchriste said:


> my ace hardware sells rubber grommets of various sizes in the "special parts" section.


thx for the suggestion. stopped by my local hardware and picked up a proper sized rubber grommet (about $1). fit well. however, it won't be a long tern solution due to its sticky and flexible nature. i believe the original was metal. i think i can get a snap together two piece grommet later that will work better. 

also took the time to straighten out the lower handle bar. for whatever reason it was bent a little, making the whole handle bar look a little off center. 

two big remaining tasks: carb adjustment/replacement, and still need to free up one auger before reassembly. the donor auger/impeller actually looks pretty good, so i don't think i will bother utilizing the dump pic parts for it. propably see about a new impeller bearing, and maybe bushings all around if needed (though the dump ones seem to have low miles).


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

Look what I snagged today, just being ask to go home with me. Going to take the old engine off of this and put one of my new HF Predator 6.5's on it. This will get a mini rebuild. Dang you guys convincing me these old Ariens (or Aliens) as my buddy says are great snow blowers fixed up.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Boy that one sure has seen a lot of stupid throughout the years. Hopefully you can restore it to a happy life!


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

So, I ordered a nice aftermarket carb. Installed today. Started up pretty well, but is clearly surging/searching. Governor is moving back and forth. Is this an air/fuel mix issue? 
How do I embed a video?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

also, does the "key" really do anything besides some sort of safety feature? i've noticed that snowblowers start up without them (like this one, in which the wire had broken).


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> also, does the "key" really do anything besides some sort of safety feature? i've noticed that snowblowers start up without them (like this one, in which the wire had broken).


When you pull the key out it grounds the ignition the same as grounding the spark plug but in a different location. There's 1 wire going to the back of the key. If you pull this wire off the key won't work. If you have the wire connected and you lose the key, you pull the wire off and it will start. Throttling it down to turn it off.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

If you lose the key, you can file or shape a plastic utensil, .... All it does, as mentioned, is push open the constant connected ground lead.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> So, I ordered a nice aftermarket carb. Installed today. Started up pretty well, but is clearly surging/searching. Governor is moving back and forth. Is this an air/fuel mix issue?
> How do I embed a video?


There's a problem with the carb.

2 choices.

Order a new carb or fix this carb.

You should be ordering ONLY an adjustable carburetor. Sometimes you can adjust it out, sometimes, 

To fix it, this may work, you can take a welding tip cleaner, remove the main jet that holds the bowl up, if there is an emulsion tube up the main jet tube then remove that and ream it out, you can also try with a micro drill set BUT most likely you will have to remove the side Welch plug and ream those holes out, then buy a new Welch plug, punch it in, then seal it with nail polish.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Get back to the key later. As for the carb, the new one looks like the old one, which kind of looks like the even older Lausen one. Not sure what adjustable is meaning with these. There is a black cap covering what should be an adjustable screw line on the others. Is this what you mean? 

pics show new and old 824 carb, plus ‘70s carb.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

and product description:

*Carburetor For TECUMSEH 640054 640349 Fits Model HMSK80-155693X HMSK80-155699V HMSK80-155699W Engine *


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

No, the black cover is covering the low speed jet. You can pull that out and spray some carb cleaner in and use a welding tip cleaner in the carb hole and the jet, it may run better. That may solve the surging. Surging is a low speed problem, that may be good, if not then you'll have to remove the Welch plug. 

An adjustable carb has 2 adjustments, 1 on the side and one at the bowl. Both will have springs.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, so i pulled the black cap off and there is a slotted screw there. your saying that is not part of an adjustment option?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

also, i'm looking at the "original" carb. it has an etched serial number and some various stamped numbers. i would guess it is original. it has a single bolt bottom (no springs), and a top adjustable screw with a spring, and a lower screw without spring, just like the replacement.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Oneacer said:


> If you lose the key, you can file or shape a plastic utensil, .... All it does, as mentioned, is push open the constant connected ground lead.


i have the key. the little connection tab that is on the green wire that runs somewhere into the engine broke, so i can't connect the key green wire to anything. i was always under the impression that you needed the key to start engine (not like an ignition key). but i have started blowers without the key. maybe i had the housing off and had disconnected the key green wire. so i guess you are saying i don't need the key set-up if the key wire is disconnected.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> ok, so i pulled the black cap off and there is a slotted screw there. your saying that is not part of an adjustment option?


That is correct, the screw is not an adjustment, the screw is for removal of the jet. It needs to be screwed all the way in but not terribly tight, just in, that's it.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Correct .... As long as any live lead is not grounding anywhere.

The cap on the side is a preset needle which should be just snugged up, just don't go crazy tight.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> also, i'm looking at the "original" carb. it has an etched serial number and some various stamped numbers. i would guess it is original. it has a single bolt bottom (no strings), and a top adjustable screw with a spring, and a lower screw without spring, just like the replacement.


The screw at the top with the spring is the idle adjustment, there is no spring on the jet, that's the one with the black cap.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> i have the key. the little connection tab that is on the green wire that runs somewhere into the engine broke, so i can't connect the key green wire to anything. i was always under the impression that you needed the key to start engine (not like an ignition key). but i have started blowers without the key. maybe i had the housing off and had disconnected the key green wire. so i guess you are saying i don't need the key set-up if the key wire is disconnected.


Correct. Do nothing about the key now since the wire is missing, don't even bother to replace it. The key in my opinion is to prevent children from starting the snowblower.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Correct. Do nothing about the key now since the wire is missing, don't even bother to replace it. The key in my opinion is to prevent children from starting the snowblower.


kind of what i thought, a safety device. the wire is there, just a piece of attachment metal broke.

since the replacement carb is identical to the "original", i'll do a little tweaking to see if it smooths out. can always take the original carb to my local shop and discuss.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

btw, is it possible the linkages need bending/adjusting?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Highly unlikely, unless someone at some point messed with the holes or the rods.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

going to the dump tomorrow to drop off some yard waste...........keeping my fingers crossed.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I have to force myself to drive by the metal area, .... No room and too many projects lined up.

but I could not refuse my recent Toro ......😁 lol, I squeezed it in.....


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

The gov linkage here should be a straight run from gov arm to the throttle arm. The kinks are effectively changing the factory setting of the governor and no new carb can fix the resulting hunting.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

looked up OE replacement carb on e-replacement site. 390 degree view shows it is built the same as old one i took off and new aftermarket. idle spring screw, black cap, and single non-spring bottom bolt. so, i'm still trying to understand what would be available, or necessity of, an "adjustable" carb if the OE is not.

*part number 50-659 
Manufacturer: Briggs and Stratton, Toro, Tecumseh, MTD


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

oneboltshort said:


> The gov linkage here should be a straight run from gov arm to the throttle arm. The kinks are effectively changing the factory setting of the governor and no new carb can fix the resulting hunting.
> 
> View attachment 178463


ok, that might be a good clue. it may have been bent up during original removing from donor machine, or maybe it was already bent on the donor machine. what's the best way to get that rod detached/attached from the governor/throttle lever?


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

Remove the throttle bracket from the blower housing. Tilt it out of the z-bend. People try to bend them out with needle nose or route them wrong to begin with (under fuel line) and force the throttle lever. The part is like $2 for OEM if you want to replace over summer. Sometimes they get fatigued from too many "adjustments." Your other carb in pic is probably fine, the bowl is not on correctly , but may just be finger tight for reference in pic?
PartsTree - Home of OEM Parts for Outdoor Power Equipment


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

oneboltshort said:


> The gov linkage here should be a straight run from gov arm to the throttle arm. The kinks are effectively changing the factory setting of the governor and no new carb can fix the resulting hunting.
> 
> View attachment 178463


The link _below_ your arrows is the one from the throttle plate to the gov arm, and _IS_ straight from what I can see. The one you are pointing to is from the throttle control to the gov, via the spring in the throttle. Bends (if not supposed to be there) can still be a problem, but less so than on the other.


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

tadawson said:


> The link _below_ your arrows is the one from the throttle plate to the gov arm, and _IS_ straight from what I can see. The one you are pointing to is from the throttle control to the gov, via the spring in the throttle. Bends (if not supposed to be there) can still be a problem, but less so than on the other.


I used the arrows so there wouldn't be confusion, but lets look anyway.
Here's the correct Governor Link (34667), it should be straight as I mentioned









Here's the correct Throttle Link (33878) that you perceive to be straight, it is not


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

The link in the picture going from the gov to the throttle on the catb _IS_ straight in the portion seen in the photo, and is _NOT_ the one the arrows pointed to, and I was just pointing that out . . .


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

My throttle linkage rod has a bend. The governor rod is NOT straight at all (as your picture indicates). Here are two pics. Thinking this is my issue?


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

It could be the problem however I would not bet money on it. The surging happens on brand new carbs so....... who knows, don't get excited, just replace the governor rod and see, then deal with the carb if so.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

JLawrence08648 said:


> It could be the problem however I would not bet money on it. The surging happens on brand new carbs so....... who knows, don't get excited, just replace the governor rod and see, then deal with the carb if so.


yes, we'll see. when i transferred the donor carb, that surging was also happening. i thought to myself that i doubt both engines have the same issue, it is probably the old carb. but with the new carb (old linkages) the issue remains.

hopefully my local dealer has the linkage rod. don't feel like ordering it and paying shipping.

and after installing an unbent governor rod, the governor will be pushed back significantly and bring the throttle with it. hopefully calming everything down.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, so i disconnected one end of the governor rod (can't seen to disconnect at the governor without pulling the governor), and finger straightened the rod. not perfect, but better. seemed to run somewhat better. idles down better. probably gonna find both rods and replace as a base. 

like before, noticed some "backfire, puffing" noise, esp. at lower throttle. i realize this is a 15+ year old engine with unknown history. do you think it has to do with fuel supply still, or head gasket etc? gonna pull out my 724 and get it running as comparison. 

also, gonna need to examine the friction wheel/disc. only now am i able to drive this unit. is powerful forward and reverse, but noticed some stuff, like temporary frozen drive wheel, and stuck in reverse throughout all gear selections. 
linkages look fine, but maybe the friction disc/wheel are rough.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

If you are not sure of the gasoline, drain the tank, drain the carb, your new fuel should be absolutely bought today from a name brand station in an empty can. I tell people, put your gas in a clear 2L soda bottle, it should be clear, not cloudy, not golden, and no water in the bottom, them use it.

Old machine, you may want to check the valve clearance. Watch a YouTube.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

tank was dry, carb is new. seafoam and stabilizer added to fuel.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Not for nothing, but did the fuel line check out ok?

I mention that, as I have seen them break down a few times without them actually leaking .


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

went to dump today to dump some yard waste....went over to metal area.

no snowblowers.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Oneacer said:


> Not for nothing, but did the fuel line check out ok?
> 
> I mention that, as I have seen them break down a few times without them actually leaking .


It appears ok, I did not replace it. I did add a shut off valve.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

As long as the line is free flowing with no obstruction in it, and the shutoff is working properly, you can rule out the tank to the carb as the issue.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

rwh963 said:


> ok, so i disconnected one end of the governor rod (can't seen to disconnect at the governor without pulling the governor), and finger straightened the rod. not perfect, but better. seemed to run somewhat better. idles down better. probably gonna find both rods and replace as a base.
> 
> like before, noticed some "backfire, puffing" noise, esp. at lower throttle. i realize this is a 15+ year old engine with unknown history. do you think it has to do with fuel supply still, or head gasket etc? gonna pull out my 724 and get it running as comparison.
> 
> ...


replying to my own post regarding the drive issue. i had time to open the belly and take a look. thankfully i had the donor machine to refer to. discovered that a rotating piece that locks into a double forked bracket that is connected to the speed select rod system was easily disengaged (it fell out of the fork easily). that is most likely my issue. turns out the bracket rod that seats behind the fork which the fork attaches to had popped up/out some. i set it back and locked the piece into the shift fork. now it stays locked in place throughout the shift zone. adding some pics to help illustrate.

the friction disc is a little beaten up. might need to replace. the friction wheel is in good condition. is the disc an easy swap out?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

The friction disc looks fairly new.

At some point, someone let the friction disc wear down to metal and grind into the drive plate. I see it often. If I were you, I would probably start with a 60 or 80 grit emery cloth, ending up with say 500 grit. In other words, just try to smooth it out some, so you don't quickly destroy the new friction disc.

Changing that drive plate requires some effort, as well as a bit of dismanteling. I have spares for my 10000 series machines, only because I work on them. Keep your eye out for free donors of that era. ......


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

probably wrong, but in my mind i call the metal disc a friction disc and the rubber a friction wheel.

i'll have to jump on youtube to see drive plate replacement procedures. i'll test out the situation the next time i have the blower outside. blowers only get used about 6 times a year here; my concern was unsmooth speed transitions.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Speed gear changes should not be done on the fly.... That should be done using the neutral position.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

That drive plate is a mess. 
If your donor machine plate is in good condition I would swap it out. If not, try what Oneacer recommends, you need to get it smoother, or you will eat up that new friction disc.


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

rwh963 said:


> is the disc an easy swap out?


No. The 932 series is an awful trans design and the shift fork will constantly have issues that cause other failures. You can see previous "work" done on the fork reference all the tool marks on the fork end. There should be washers at BOTH ears of the carrier bearing between the fork and carrier ear. If you don't replace those the forks will have slop and grab/torque randomly which causes the forks rod/shifter connection to pop out of the ends of the frame as you've seen. It is very difficult to align and hold together the complete assembly and people frequently just leave the washers out in frustration.
The drive belt idler pulley tensioner spring is out of it's notch in the frame. Previous owner likely had trouble with traction because of this and kept cranking on the drive cable adjustment ramming the friction wheel into the plate, wore it out and went back for more adjustment, now the plate is ruined.









Here's a video showing some of the difficulty working inside this design. It is easier to remove the pinion shaft and gear set as well as the traction clutch spring arm than to work around as done in the video.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Oneacer said:


> Speed gear changes should not be done on the fly.... That should be done using the neutral position.


Yes of course. I was meaning all forward and reverse speeds operate smoothly. A marked up plate might affect that.


oneboltshort said:


> No. The 932 series is an awful trans design and the shift fork will constantly have issues that cause other failures. You can see previous "work" done on the fork reference all the tool marks on the fork end. There should be washers at BOTH ears of the carrier bearing between the fork and carrier ear. If you don't replace those the forks will have slop and grab/torque randomly which causes the forks rod/shifter connection to pop out of the ends of the frame as you've seen. It is very difficult to align and hold together the complete assembly and people frequently just leave the washers out in frustration.
> The drive belt idler pulley tensioner spring is out of it's notch in the frame. Previous owner likely had trouble with traction because of this and kept cranking on the drive cable adjustment ramming the friction wheel into the plate, wore it out and went back for more adjustment, now the plate is ruined.
> View attachment 178513
> 
> ...


thx for the input and tips. would you like to see any other pics?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i'll have to look up what the carrier bearing is and the washer positions. when you say the 932 tranny is an awful design, 
is it just because of the shift fork? i'll have to look at my 2005 724 932 blower to compare designs. it has been going for years with issues like you mention. 

are there "best" design models in your opinion?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Ziggy65 said:


> That drive plate is a mess.
> If your donor machine plate is in good condition I would swap it out. If not, try what Oneacer recommends, you need to get it smoother, or you will eat up that new friction disc.


i think the donor machine plate is really worn down. i'll shoot some pics later.


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

The 924 series is much better, IMO. There is always someone that has a machine that never had a problem. It's 56 years old. On it's original oil, bearings, tires and has 3/4" impeller gap yet starts on one pull and throws snow 76 feet against the wind. Pick a brand, someone out there has the perfect one.
The 932 series I get in for repair consistently have drive issues and the system is overly complicated and crowded to achieve motion, again IMO.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Donor disc: smooth and thin. Rubber disc is a little beaten up. 
Did reset the spring as pointed out.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I did not know you had a spare in a donor unit.

I would still clean up the one in there now, and keep an eye on it. Take the other out of the donor at your leisure, and then you'll know what is involved with changing one out.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

another update: git outside, fuel system is doing better. had mostly straightened the governor rod (have one on order), and it hunts less. initially the drive system was OK, then i lost reverse, and single forward speed. checked the belly, and sure enough the fork control rod had popped out of the black cup seat (bushing?), rendering shifting useless. the shifting action popped it out. this may have been a main reason for the dump discard. doesn't look like a big deal, but not sure about accessing way back there, and whether it is just a new black cup, or i need to replace that rod section. i went over to the donor, and saw that they had run into the same issue. they used some wire to tie down the rod black down to prevent to from lifting out. i'd much farther do a proper repair. anybody do this repair in the past?

here re two pics. the first is my machine, the second the donor.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

jumped on e-replacements. learned some new terms, like speed fork and shift carrier! anyway, looks like the flange bushing is bad. there are two, top and bottom, will try to order them locally. sad if a $4 part made someone throw it away.


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

If you do not replace the washers (#11 in diagram) the fork will continually bind and pull out of the ends. The general assembly counts on several different points to be in sync, much more involved than a traditional swing plate drive assembly. Owners don't do maintenance until something doesn't work. If something sticks/binds they or a sausage fingered neighbor force the shift lever and things get bent, shift forks pop out, washers fall out. If the fork has been "adjusted" by a previous owner it may never line up again (tool marks on forks). You'll notice the shifter arm at the dash and rod down to the fork provide much more leverage than the speed fork mounting tabs can resist if bound up for some reason.
Check to see if your pinion gear set is free to rotate on the pinion shaft. It's supposed to, and why it has a grease zerk on the end behind your left tire. Make sure the right side of the pinion shaft hasn't ovaled out the frame behind the right tire. Previous bending/prying/adjusting can cause probs. Especially if the frame tabs the fork shaft ends sit in have been "custom" bent (where #5 and 7 sit). You can also have a worn friction plate shaft bushing and there's another carrier bearing assembly behind the plate and another fork hiding deep in there (#22,23,26,27).
If you can get past this guy patting himself on the back in the video, there is some good video to see possible damage to other parts.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

oneboltshort said:


> If you do not replace the washers (#11 in diagram) the fork will continually bind and pull out of the ends. The general assembly counts on several different points to be in sync, much more involved than a traditional swing plate drive assembly. Owners don't do maintenance until something doesn't work. If something sticks/binds they or a sausage fingered neighbor force the shift lever and things get bent, shift forks pop out, washers fall out. If the fork has been "adjusted" by a previous owner it may never line up again (tool marks on forks). You'll notice the shifter arm at the dash and rod down to the fork provide much more leverage than the speed fork mounting tabs can resist if bound up for some reason.
> Check to see if your pinion gear set is free to rotate on the pinion shaft. It's supposed to, and why it has a grease zerk on the end behind your left tire. Make sure the right side of the pinion shaft hasn't ovaled out the frame behind the right tire. Previous bending/prying/adjusting can cause probs. Especially if the frame tabs the fork shaft ends sit in have been "custom" bent (where #5 and 7 sit). You can also have a worn friction plate shaft bushing and there's another carrier bearing assembly behind the plate and another fork hiding deep in there (#22,23,26,27).
> If you can get past this guy patting himself on the back in the video, there is some good video to see possible damage to other parts.
> View attachment 178522
> ...


first, thank you for taking the time and interest in assisting.

that is a large, unfamiliar checklist for me. let me starter:

picked up upper and lower bushings ($8 total). spent way too much time trying to replace the lower bushing (an impossible job really; had to shave it down to press into the hole (#5 in diagram). and yes, the rod remained too loose during shifting and the same problem remained. i re-examined the donor, and realized that is why the shift rod bracket was wired the way it was. now that observation makes sense. 

on both machines, there are no washers on the carrier. i'm assuming the washers go on the shaft carrier tubes that fit into the speed forks (in-between the carrier and fork, so adding tension?). i have to see what size washer is used, hopefully something out of my washer collection. 

good news, after wiring up my shift rod like the donor, it drove through all gears (reverse and forward) fairly normally.
hopefully all i need are two washers to finish this problem.

here is mine wired up:


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i looked up the washer part number (06401112). locally ordered at $2.22 each. gonna first check local hardware store.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I have a drawer of just washers ... before I discard anything, I strip off all bolts nuts, washers, etc. ... Also whenever I but washers over the years, I would always but extra.... LOL, gives me my own hardware store for those items, instead of running to the store in the middle of a project.

P.S. ... I just saw your above photo of the mechanics wire all wrapped up ... many uses for that stuff ...


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, picked up two 1"/.5" washers at the local hardware for $1. for the first timer, this is a PITA repair. very hard to get both washers set in to the fork. after that finally happened, realized that the rod was not in the bottom bushing! after lots of unsuccessful attempts, decided i needed to thread a wire behind the the rod and use pliers to lever it forward over the bushing seat. that did the trick! everything is holding together so far. haven't started it to test just yet, need a little me time.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

took it for a spin. starts up on first or second pull (have to remember turn on the new fuel valve!). went through all the speeds successfully (without the support wire). still a little bit of muffler puffing. idles better. governor is not seeking like it had been. i think you are supposed throttle down slowly to shut off, rather than rapidly, to help prevent backfiring.

NOW, i want to free up the one auger rake. probably have to buy a propane or MAP gas kit. i think this rake is just stuck with old dried grease. after that, i can install the bucket stuff!


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

If it is rusted on, it may require an acelylene torch, it quite a bit of patience and PB Blaster
Otherwise, a propane torch should be plenty to soften old grease.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, finally got the time to run the auger over to the local welding shop. been in business many years, builds metal sculptures, etc. told him what was up. he said don't waste your money. keep pumping grease in and put it in the hot sun for the summer. if it doesn't free up, run it without the shear pin (earlier i mentioned in another thread that a shop suggested no pin as well). he says he hates pins. he welded his augers on, no more pins! so, I'm a little confused. 2-0 the score for leaving the pin out and running it that way. 

what say the experts here?


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Did you ask him if he welded his gearbox solid as well? Obviously a welder, and not a mechanic . . . "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" . . .


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Yep, don't bring your repairs to him.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

rwh963 said:


> he welded his augers on





tadawson said:


> "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"





RIT333 said:


> Yep, don't bring your repairs to him.


Yeah, what @tadawson & @RIT333 said... That's a recipe for a new gearbox.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i know, just weird that a dealer had suggested the same procedure.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, the 10k series has been put into summer storage off-site. now, i want to finish this dump find 824. need to re-install the auger assembly,. probably solder the safety key wire that broke off.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

ok, here come some re-assembly questions for the 824. two main procedures:

1) replacing the full auger assembly into the bucket. am i supposed to remove the bearing and mount it and the matching flanges first, then slide the impeller shaft through? the old bearing is on tight. sounds smooth. should i replace it? i tried just putting the whole unit in, but couldn't line the bearing/flange/bolt up with the holes. also, the flag is not a full circle. purpose for that, and does it matter which way it goes? 

2) attaching the impeller shaft to the pulley mode. though i bought, and disassembled. the donor 824 in part to get the yoke, i am drawing a blank with what is in front of me. my recollection is that i removed the yoke from pulley face bolts. however, the yoke has three large bolts, as if it is the yoke from the pulley rear. should i have another piece somewhere? 

thx!


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

i think i'm brushing back some cobwebs. unlike the 10M, this has a two belt and two pulley system. one pulley is mounted on the rear of the bucket. that is where the yoke goes. yikes! still need to properly mount the auger assembly.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm sure that bearing is probably rust welded on the shaft .... You can probably fiddle with it, or if it sounds good to you, just leave it and fiddle with lining up the 3 holes .....your choice.

On that pulley setup, the bucket pulley should just lock over the auger shaft using the keyway as shown, with a set screw or such.

In the future, snap pictures, and bag and tag parts .... Makes it much easier if you can't recall reassembly.


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

PartsTree - Home of OEM Parts for Outdoor Power Equipment

Here's what goes inside and outside bucket (also a bit of impeller shaft not pictured). Don't forget the woodruff key #10 in the IPL link it goes in end of impeller shaft/hub/pulley.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

thx for the help. the bearing did come off. i spins quietly. i looked locally for a replacement, but none in stock (didn't try the dealer). decided to re-use. bolted it down with the flanges, then muscled the auger into place. tied down the sides. added the rear pulley and yoke, adjusted it's spacing. tightened the set screws.

i actually have two different belts left, so i will see which fits properly. gonna use an extra set of hands to bring the two pieces together (unless someone has an easy method; the bottom bolt slip into an open sided hole).


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## oneboltshort (Dec 16, 2019)

Turn the bottom bolts into the bucket threads then they can set into the cutouts in the tractor. I just scooch the two halves together slowly get them aligned and use a belt on the impeller pulley to pull up the bucket half onto the tractor. Clamp your auger engage handle down so brake is out of way. Your impeller pulley and hub seem too close to the auger, but maybe different on yours. My 932104 shows very little impeller shaft to accomplish drive belt to pulley alignment.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

How were the axle and auger bushings, did they need replacement?


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Ziggy65 said:


> How were the axle and auger bushings, did they need replacement?


seem good and tight. no movement after tightening.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

oneboltshort said:


> Turn the bottom bolts into the bucket threads then they can set into the cutouts in the tractor. I just scooch the two halves together slowly get them aligned and use a belt on the impeller pulley to pull up the bucket half onto the tractor. Clamp your auger engage handle down so brake is out of way. Your impeller pulley and hub seem too close to the auger, but maybe different on yours. My 932104 shows very little impeller shaft to accomplish drive belt to pulley alignment.
> 
> View attachment 178968


update: (and this may relate to your comment). hooked in the bottom bolts. brought them together enough to put a dummy bolt through one hole. that allowed me to go the other side and adjust and bolt it. returned to the other side and bolted it as well.

as mentioned earlier, i found myself with two slightly different belts left over. took an educated guess and put one on the impeller pulley. moved the blower outside, started out up, drove it. then raised it to see the auger move. it did, then fell silent. the belt has jumped. tried again, same. tried other belt, same. looking at it more closely, it seems the impeller pulley must be to close to the bucket. the belt angle is too much, to the point that the belt barely rides in the auger tension pulley.

don't recall about this adjustment/alignment. i suppose the best thing to do is try to loosen the hex set screws from above (or below) and move the pulley towards the tractor? the distance seems significant, but maybe it really isn't.

is it normal procedure to be able to install the impeller belt while the bucket is attached? hate to have to pull it apart.

here is a pic of the alignment:


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Today’s take home from the dump. Nearly new. Seems to work fine. Anybody like these?


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

tabora said:


> Yeah, what @tadawson & @RIT333 said... That's a recipe for a new gearbox.


people love to be lazy and weld, weld , weld.

why would you weld upper handlebars on a Honda to the lower bars. I have asked owners that and they say they were getting tired of loose handlebars.I tell them they should have DOUBLE bolted the handlebars. I do this all the time. The HS724 and I think the 1132 has double bolts. I dont know why Honda did not do this to the 828 and 928. People say "that's a good idea."

they weld augers on? I guess a $300-400 repair for an auger gearbox is cheaper? Even a used one runs $200-250 plus install.

People will even weld the main gear in the right side tranny to the drive axle when the pin breaks. I guess that is cost effective also. A total rebuild for parts is about $200-300 for a new axle gears, bushings, bearings plus another 2.5 hours ( Honda labor book ) for labor . About $225-250.

A rebuild/service can last another 10-20 years depending on use and upkeep.

but weld that gear onto the drive axle and that may be a recipe for early failure. I think commercial outfits do this since the machine is trashed anyway. practically worthless machines . even the parts are practically worthless.


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## quexpress (Dec 25, 2013)

orangputeh said:


> why would you weld upper handlebars on a Honda to the lower bars. I have asked owners that and they say they were getting tired of loose handlebars.I tell them they should have DOUBLE bolted the handlebars. I do this all the time. The HS724 and I think the 1132 has double bolts. I dont know why Honda did not do this to the 828 and 928. People say "that's a good idea."


@*orangputeh*

Do you have a pic of this double bolt setup?

Never mind ... had a senior moment. 

Thanks!


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

quexpress said:


> Do you have a pic of this double bolt setup?


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