# End of season... run dry, or treat?



## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

End of season... run dry, or treat?

see polling question above.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

I prefer to run dry since here I may or may not need to use the snowblower the next winter. Fuel stabilizers are generally okay for one year but two or more is greatly pushing things so I drain the tank and the carburetor dry.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

I just finished the polling question that went along with the post.


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

I usually store equipment with a full tank of stabilized fuel (full tank minimizes condensation as well as rust concerns on a metal tank). On the last shutdown of the season, I close the fuel valve, stall the engine with a blast of fogging oil into the carb (so the carb doesn't get run totally dry but partially drained and then coated in light oil) and then change the oil.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

With all of my gear I have always treated and replaced with the new season. I worried about the draining the gas and any remaining gas would leave a film to dry and might be an issue. But lately I find myself replacing hoses on a variety of lawn gear which I assume is due to the ethanol in the gas (is that remotely correct?). So I am wondering if I should start draining the carb and line. thanks for the replies


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

For any hoses you replace, try to confirm the new hoses are alcohol safe. Most should be. If the equipment where you're having hose failures is older, it's possible the original hoses weren't alcohol safe and will degrade extra fast when in contact with ethanol. An alcohol safe hose should last just as well with ethanol as without it.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

>try to confirm the new hoses are alcohol safe

Thanks, most of those were older equipment, so I'm guessing they weren't. The newest tool in the shed is my blower. I've been really lucky with treating the gas over the years and replacing at the start of the next season. Everything starts right up.. really everything (Ok except for a chainsaw which never wanted to work from the first day I got it) So I'm hesitant to changing over to the draining routine. But since our snow was a let down today I had time to read the owners manual which does suggest that route. Maybe I'll try it with this one since the carb has an easy drain.


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

3rd opt is non-ethanol fuel


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

My gas is treated with a fuel stabilizer and cleaner. I drain the gas in to a clear 2l soda bottle, if it looks good it goes in my car, if not it goes in a 5 grain container for recycling day.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

does gas leave a residue when it dries and would this cause a problem allowing the tank, lines and carb to dry out?


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## BleedingBlue (Oct 23, 2016)

I run all my small engines dry at the end of their season (mower, snowblower, pressure washer) and have never had a problem. 


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

.

With the fuel we have today I voted for Numero Uno

.


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## broo (Dec 23, 2017)

I treat the fuel but don't run it dry as I'm one of those who don't have a fuel shutoff valve and very little space to add one.

Skipping a winter is impossible here, so the blower will be inactive for 8 months at worst. Treated fuel should still be fine by then. I use only 91 octane E0 (the only possible E0 around here).


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

trellis said:


> does gas leave a residue when it dries and would this cause a problem allowing the tank, lines and carb to dry out?


I run my machines dry, if they have a fuel shutoff. Usually it's fine, but one time I had a problem. When I opened the fuel valve on my generator one time, gas started pouring out of the carb. I closed the valve, and started taking things apart. Jiggled things around some in the process. Opened the valve again, and it was fine. 

My best guess is that the float stuck to the bottom of the carb bowl, or the needle valve had a problem, and it allowed gas to overflow from the bowl. But then whatever was wrong must have moved around a bit, and then started working properly again, and the engine started & ran fine. 

That's the only time I've seen a problem that may have resulted from running the carb dry. And I prefer to run them dry at the end of the season, whenever I can (if it has a shutoff, or the carb bowl can be drained).


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

broo said:


> I treat the fuel but don't run it dry as I'm one of those who don't have a fuel shutoff valve and very little space to add one.
> 
> ... I use only 91 octane E0 (the only possible E0 around here).



With E0 (lucky you!) it's probably much less of a concern. But you could pump or siphon the tank empty, and then run the engine briefly until it dies, even without a shutoff.


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## broo (Dec 23, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> With E0 (lucky you!) it's probably much less of a concern. But you could pump or siphon the tank empty, and then run the engine briefly until it dies, even without a shutoff.


That's my plan for this year. I bought a manual pump to empty the tank last summer. Forgot to use it on the mower (oops), but at least the fuel is treated.

Strangely, the only small engine I own that does have a fuel shutoff is the generator. I do run it dry as per the manual's recommendation after each use.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

End of the season. 



1. Drain the tank completely
2. Drop the carb bowl
3. Spray carb cleaner into the carb bowl, up the emulsion and through all the little orifaces
4. never ever have a problem the following year. 



Did this with a Tecumseh 5HP engine. Lasted my 18 trouble free years. I sold it, and the guy is STILL using it two years later.


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## bearman49709 (Apr 27, 2015)

I just leave everything like it is, no fuel treatment or anything else and have never had any problems since they started adding corn to gas.
Left my generator like that for 22 months and it started the first pull and ran like a champ.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

JLawrence08648 said:


> My gas is treated with a fuel stabilizer and cleaner. I drain the gas in to a clear 2l soda bottle, if it looks good it goes in my car, if not it goes in a 5 grain container for recycling day.







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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

I've tried both, but ive settled on the "keep treated gas in" method..
because my theory is: If you try to drain the gas, you cant get it _all_..there will always be little bits left in the tank, gas lines, and/or carb.
Then those little bits can dry, leaving varnish and residue behind. Also, there is the theory that leaving gaskets "dry" can make them crack..

So, for those reasons, I prefer to keep gas in the whole system..then it cant dry out at all and cause any varnish deposits.
I dont drain it at the start of the season..I usually leave about half a tank for storage, then top-off with fresh new gas..haven't had a problem with that.
Snowblowers go 7 months in the off-season, mowers go 5 months..I dont think thats long enough for the gas to degrade much.

But! I also have non-ethanol gas! treated with seafoam. thats much better quality gas than the 10% ethanol gas.
If I had to use 10% ethanol gas, then I probably would go with the "full drain" method.

Scot


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

JLawrence08648 said:


> My gas is treated with a fuel stabilizer and cleaner. I drain the gas in to a clear 2l soda bottle, if it looks good it goes in my car, if not it goes in a 5 grain container for recycling day.




I drain it into a gas can and use it as mower gas. I like the clear bottle inspection to check for separation


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

bearman49709 said:


> I just leave everything like it is, no fuel treatment or anything else and have never had any problems since they started adding corn to gas.
> Left my generator like that for 22 months and it started the first pull and ran like a champ.



The laws of chemistry will catch up to you someday. 



What's the ethenol content where you live? Just curious. Where do you keep your equipment? I'm guessing a garage or similar that is under the house, or otherwise kept dry and relatively warm.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I use some crap my dad bought in the dollar store. It's some kind of imitation CRC 6-66 product, however, it coats nice, leaves a shine, and no oily film. I have two cans, I hate the day I run out. Here's the results on customers machines:


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## SnowH8ter (Oct 8, 2018)

bearman49709 said:


> I just leave everything like it is, no fuel treatment or anything else and have never had any problems since they started adding corn to gas.
> Left my generator like that for 22 months and it started the first pull and ran like a champ.



I did that to a Honda powered pressure washer not so long ago. 18 months with a half tank of corny fuel - no stabilizer, seafoam etc. Almost started on the 1st tug. Fired up and purred like a kitten on the 2nd. Drained it anyhow - fuel was yellowed, but that wasn't surprising. Notwithstanding, there were plenty of healthy VOCs remaining. I've used the aforementioned pressure washer a whole bunch since and it starts/runs just fine. Hmm... :confused2:


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## SnowH8ter (Oct 8, 2018)

rslifkin said:


> For any hoses you replace, try to confirm the new hoses are alcohol safe.



How do we do that? Is there a specification for alcohol safe rubber?


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Very easy way to drain the gas.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

All my gas is E10 and treated with about 1oz. of Seafoam per gallon. It really doesn't, or shouldn't go bad. Here's my method currently. I try not to disturb the carb. any more. I used to drain the bowl and fuel lines, but once I over tightened the bowl when putting it back on and warped it. Had to replace the bowl.

1. Get out an old turkey baster and suck out as much gas as possible. This goes straight into the tank for the mower.

2. Run it until it stalls then pull the cord a few times just for good measure.

3. Add about 2oz. of lightly treated TruFuel and start her up again until the engine quits. Pull the cord a few times.

4. Change the oil and say good night for 7 - 8 months.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

SnowH8ter said:


> How do we do that? Is there a specification for alcohol safe rubber?


Anything listed as marine hose should specify that it's alcohol safe. Most others should be, but I'm not sure if there's a labeling standard or anything. 

As far as the concerns with ethanol, most of the issue is just if it absorbs too much water. Small amounts of water are less of an issue than with E0 (being that ethanol acts like the drygas people used to add to fuel and absorbs the water). So small amounts of water pass through harmlessly. But if the fuel absorbs too much, it'll separate and cause big issues. 

Because of this, when storing stabilized E10 for any period of time, some care has to be taken to avoid condensation. In other words, when possible, store the fuel somewhere that doesn't get large temperature swings and in a container that doesn't breathe excessively. And ideally, keep the container full. Full means less airspace (so less moisture that can condense or otherwise end up in the fuel) as well as more fuel to absorb the moisture (so more moisture required before the fuel has any issues).


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

I don't see my option, Keep the tank full with treated gas and carb gets drained with fuel valve off especially with metal tanks to prevent the inside from rusting.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

> metal tanks to prevent the inside from rusting.


This is why I recently started adding Stabil360 to my mix, previously I only added SeaFoam. I just don't know if adding 2 products is a smart idea? But I have had long term success with Seafoam so I hesitate switching entirely over to Stabil360. Seems that if draining the tank may create an environment for corrosion so would draining the carb?



> STA-BIL 360° releases a vapor inside the fuel system that coats all metal parts including the fuel tank, fuel sending unit, valves, carburetor, fuel injectors and intake manifold.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

* Run the BLOODY Things Bone Dry every time after I get done using them.*


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## vmaxed (Feb 23, 2014)

I store with a full tank of seafoam stabilized fuel run the carb dry.


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## Cutter (Mar 29, 2017)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * Run the BLOODY Things Bone Dry every time after I get done using them.*



I totally agree.:smile2:


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I like SScotsman method. It makes sense to leave the gas in as you cannot get all the gas out of the holes and passageways (reason to use a fuel stabilizer) and the little bit of fuel left is going to evaporate causing problems so best to leave it in and moist. I'm going to start leaving the gas in with one exception, I'm going to leave only a quarter tank of gas as when I fill it late fall, the old gas will have more good gas to mix with.



sscotsman said:


> I've tried both, but ive settled on the "keep treated gas in" method..
> because my theory is: If you try to drain the gas, you cant get it _all_..there will always be little bits left in the tank, gas lines, and/or carb.
> Then those little bits can dry, leaving varnish and residue behind. Also, there is the theory that leaving gaskets "dry" can make them crack..
> 
> ...


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## sewman (Aug 12, 2018)

My Honda generator sat for a yr w/gas in it & when I went to start it it took quite a few pulls & only runs on full choke,I put some carb cleaner in it & ran it for a while it is still the same.I guess it needs to be taken apart & cleaned.Guesws I'll start using Stabil in the future.


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## IDEngineer (Oct 16, 2018)

I use non-ethanol fuel in all of my occasional use engines. Each gallon of fuel is treated with SeaFoam to keep the engine internals clean. At end of season I drain the fuel tank, then run the engine until it uses up whatever is left. Since SeaFoam claims to be a stabilizer too, I'm covered if I don't get every last drop out of the fuel system and/or carb bowl.


Also, and importantly, I change the oil immediately before storage. With the temperature ranges these machines can cycle through, condensation is almost guaranteed which means you have water INSIDE the engine. Add used/contaminated oil to that and do you really want that mixture sitting in your engine for 6+ months?!? I don't, and new oil is an inexpensive insurance policy. Heck, on these engines you don't even have to buy a filter!


Take good care of your equipment and it will take good care of you.


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## wxman2003 (Dec 18, 2018)

I do like I have for the last 30 years with no issues. The gas in the tank has been treated with Sta-bil. I start the engine, let it run for a minute or two. I turn off the gas valve, with the engine still running. The engine will continue to run, until nothing is left in the carb. The engine stops by itself. I turn the key to the engine to off. Drain and replace oil and check spark plug. The next season, I open gas valve, pump primer a couple of times, turn key to on, pull once or twice and engine always starts. Never once in 30 years have I had an issue doing it that way.


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

I also drain the carb. after each use. I've been doing that for 2 years now, only because I could go a month between uses of my snowblower. I turn the fuel shut off, off. Then I turn the throttle to 1/2 and just let the engine stop on its own. 

No fuel in the carb., at least not much, in between uses is just insurance. Might not be necessary, but it's not going to hurt.

Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk


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## SnowH8ter (Oct 8, 2018)

rslifkin said:


> Anything listed as marine hose should specify that it's alcohol safe. Most others should be, but I'm not sure if there's a labeling standard or anything.



Fuel hoses from Brazil should work ok then? :biggrin:




rslifkin said:


> As far as the concerns with ethanol, most of the issue is just if it absorbs too much water. Small amounts of water are less of an issue than with E0 (being that ethanol acts like the drygas people used to add to fuel and absorbs the water). So small amounts of water pass through harmlessly. But if the fuel absorbs too much, it'll separate and cause big issues.



Indeed, ethanol is hygroscopic, to a point. And then it phases out. I've been using ethanol blended (E-10) gasoline for nearly 30 yrs. It was actually desirable fuel in the Great White North when automotive carburetors were still a thing. The alternative was typically methyl alcohol (methanol) gas-line-antifreeze, which, being exponentially more corrosive than ethanol, was deleterious to engine fuel systems when too much was added to to the tank. In early Jan, 92, while traveling across the frozen prairie (mercury passing through -30C, headed for -40), my trusty two-barrel 318 sputtered and quit on a major hwy a long way between major centers. Three reasons: 1. Water in gas was a common, recurring problem in the winter, 2. The station I stopped at an hour earlier did not sell oxygenated (ethanol) fuel, and; 3. They were sold out of gas-line-antifreeze. I did, however, discover that you can indeed keep warm with candles in the auto when it's a frozen HE double L outside. :thumbsup:




rslifkin said:


> Because of this, when storing stabilized E10 for any period of time, some care has to be taken to avoid condensation. In other words, when possible, store the fuel somewhere that doesn't get large temperature swings and in a container that doesn't breathe excessively. And ideally, keep the container full. Full means less airspace (so less moisture that can condense or otherwise end up in the fuel) as well as more fuel to absorb the moisture (so more moisture required before the fuel has any issues).



I've stored ethanol blended fuel (sealed) that has endured temperature swings from +20C to -40C and vice versa. I've never encountered an issue with any of the equipment that was fed that fuel. :icon-cheers:


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## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

e.fisher26 said:


> 3rd opt is non-ethanol fuel
> 
> 
> I don’t even think that’s much of an option anymore really. But here’s another one for between uses anyways. They are cheap small and easy to fit in somewhere. They also come in a 90 degree elbow outlet. Makes it easier to drain between uses , snowstoarms ect. Every little bit helps if you’re stuck using boozegas.
> ...


——————————————
Noma 10/29
Cub cadet 5/26 conv to 8/26
Toro 8/24
Husqvarna st230p[/QUOTE]


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## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

Airplane gas is another good option . They’ll sell you 100 LL by the can ar small fields. Most have automatic pumps you simply use a credit card with. Just check with the guy at the office before you go wandering around out there. Guys fill cans for their planes often enough so it’s no big deal. That’s the ideal solution for generators! 
That should stay nice and fresh for a minimum of a couple years. Just don’t use it on anything with a CAT on it. Something that has 🤬 been finding its way onto small engines to add more misery to our lives.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

i treat my OPE machines like my Break Out Another Thousand ,


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

SnowH8ter said:


> I've stored ethanol blended fuel (sealed) that has endured temperature swings from +20C to -40C and vice versa. I've never encountered an issue with any of the equipment that was fed that fuel. :icon-cheers:


A sealed container fixes the temp swing concerns, as it can't breathe air in and out with temperature changes (and bring in new moisture as a result).


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## SimplicitySolid22 (Nov 18, 2018)

groomerz said:


> I drain it into a gas can and use it as mower gas. I like the clear bottle inspection to check for separation
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



grooomerz What is your dogs name and what type??? Labradoodle??


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## jlmonti (Jan 5, 2014)

Run it dry - Fill the tank part way with "Ethanol Free" gas (i.e Trufuel) and run it a bit. Start it up next winter. Recommended by my commercial equipment retailer.

Thanks !!


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## wldlif7 (Jan 22, 2019)

I typically top off my tanks and use non-ethanol gas in ALL my equipment that I believe makes a difference. I also add seafoam and run a few minutes.
Everything normally will startup the next season without issues; Snowblowers, garden tractors, lawnmowers, snowmobiles, and chainsaws.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i don't worry about it since i know the gas i put in my machines is ethanol free. i also was working on a return customers machine today but not on the carb. i cleaned his carb 2 years ago and recommended that he run the same ethanol free premium that i get from the local station and he has not had an issue since i cleaned the carb for him. i guess if ethanol free fuel is not available you do what you got to do. i really don't know if i would trust just any fuel stabilizer. i would probably want something with more of an oil base or even some 2 stroke oil. i know 2 stroke oil is not a stabilizer but IMO it would help keep the inside of the carb lubed since the ethanol seems to dry stuff out even if you run it dry.


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## PaulMys (Jan 23, 2019)

crazzywolfie said:


> i don't worry about it since i know the gas i put in my machines is ethanol free. i also was working on a return customers machine today but not on the carb. i cleaned his carb 2 years ago and recommended that he run the same ethanol free premium that i get from the local station and he has not had an issue since i cleaned the carb for him. i guess if ethanol free fuel is not available you do what you got to do. i really don't know if i would trust just any fuel stabilizer. i would probably want something with more of an oil base or even some 2 stroke oil. i know 2 stroke oil is not a stabilizer but IMO it would help keep the inside of the carb lubed since the ethanol seems to dry stuff out even if you run it dry.



Totally agree on the non ethanol fuel. 



Unfortunately, here in the NY/NJ/CT (Tri-State area) there is hardly any availability of such. 



I have added stabilizers, drained fuel systems, and/or both. 



My take is this:


Non-ethanol fuel, drain and don't worry. Why drain non-ethanol fuel? Because while not containing the corn, it is certainly not the fuel my father gassed up his 69 Roadrunner with...


All of the other corn fuels: I have personally seen this fuel aggressively attack fiberglass fuel tanks in boats, non-alcohol rated fuel lines (and older rubberized carb bowl seals), and cause premature rusting in metallic fuel tanks. 



My solution has always been Seafoam to store fuel. It is an incredible product that has been around for several decades because it WORKS. 



Add 1 ounce per gallon to the corn gas for every gallon you use before, during and after use. 



Then either drain, or store treated. Your choice.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i know ethanol free is not available everywhere and seems like it is getting harder to find. i am pretty sure sea foam is a oil based which would make it a bit better than some of the others IMO. the regular gas can be pretty hard on carbs even if you run them dry. residue left on stuff in the carb can cause issues too. i learned my lesson years ago with my sled.


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## Halfatrack (Nov 22, 2018)

*I agree*



tdipaul said:


> .
> 
> With the fuel we have today I voted for Numero Uno
> 
> .


+1 Like U said,


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## 350 Mag (Jan 23, 2019)

Try and find some Aspen 4-stroke fuel or equivalent...

Empty tank run on Aspen fuel.

It has 3 year shelf life when opened....


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## bearman49709 (Apr 27, 2015)

jsup said:


> The laws of chemistry will catch up to you someday.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the ethenol content where you live? Just curious. Where do you keep your equipment? I'm guessing a garage or similar that is under the house, or otherwise kept dry and relatively warm.


If the laws of chemistry catch up to me someday after the 30+ years I've used corn gas then I'll have saved a ton of money and time not making scam artist rich selling snake oil, but you can keep paying for it and sleep easy at night.
Well you guessed wrong! I keep my blower out back in a unheated metal shed.
I keep all of my gas equipment snowblower, power washer, push mower, riding mower, garden tractor, chain saw,leaf blower, weed wacker, generator and a few more in unheated sheds and garage with untreated gas.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

crazzywolfie said:


> i am pretty sure sea foam is a oil based which would make it a bit better than some of the others IMO. the regular gas can be pretty hard on carbs even if you run them dry. residue left on stuff in the carb can cause issues too.


That's a good reminder, thanks. I've been running my carbs dry of their stabilized gas at the end of the season. But maybe some some Seafoam, or 2-stroke oil, is also worth doing, to maybe keep a slight protective film on the carb internals.


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## uberT (Dec 29, 2013)

I run my machines dry, we are exposed to E10 gasoline. I put about 1/2 qt of TruFuel in, restart, run the machines for a couple of minutes and turn off the gas valves. Put away for the season.


I'm having 100% success with this strategy.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

That sounds pretty reasonable, and not super-expensive (minimal Tru Fuel). You run the carbs dry, or leave them full? I wasn't quite clear.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

> or leave them full?


I've always treated with SeaFoam and left it in the system and had good luck with the exception of a couple fuel lines that I needed to replace. But since TruFuel contains additives that they say protects corrosion without the Ethanol, I'm tilting in that direction. 

Empty out the Ethanol/Gas and a final run with TruFuel which remains in the system. And since the shelf life is 2 years after opening, this would save me the hassle of emptying the tank at the start of the next season.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Project Farm comparing E0 and E10.


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## trellis (Mar 14, 2018)

Nice method to determine the amount of ethanol in gas. I look forward to the test on how ethanol effects rubber lines. I wonder if the test will include treated ethanol gas as well as non-ethanol. Thanks for posting.... is that your video? Nicely done.


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