# Gearcase question



## jenkinsm2 (Dec 7, 2014)

So on my st824, when I engage the augers I get a grinding noise while the augers are turning like the augers are scratching against the bucket, but they are not. Also, with the shear bolts in place, I can spin the augers 1/2 a full rotation in either direction before they stop. There are only 2 shear bolts on this model.

Is this normal or do I have a problem here? I checked the gear case and their seems to be grease in there.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

jenkinsm2 said:


> So on my st824, when I engage the augers I get a grinding noise while the augers are turning like the augers are scratching against the bucket, but they are not. Also, with the shear bolts in place, I can spin the augers 1/2 a full rotation in either direction before they stop. There are only 2 shear bolts on this model.
> 
> Is this normal or do I have a problem here? I checked the gear case and their seems to be grease in there.


I am not familiar with your machine, but I would say your symptoms are not normal. I don't think it possible for the auger to rotate half a rotation freely if the gears in the gear case have all their teeth. Damaged shear pins or the holes through the auger shaft or the auger drive shaft (internal to the auger shaft) could account for some slop but not half a rotation. Easy to check by removing the shear pins and checking for wear and damage. If in doubt install new shear pins and see what the free play is like.

You probably need to remove the auger and impeller from the machine usually by removing the auger pulley and bearing assembly and the auger bearings on each side of auger housing to pull the assembly straight out. Then you can dismantle the augers and separate the gear case to inspect the gears.

Good luck.


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## jenkinsm2 (Dec 7, 2014)

OK,

2 primary questions come to mind. 1st, is it safe to use the machine to throw snow or would this cause further damage.
2nd, Does this sound like I need to replace the brass gear and the worm shaft?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Sounds like you need a new brass gear. At most should have just enough play to feel a slight movement. You might get lucky and only need to replace the pin holding the brass gear to the shaft. You will only know when you open it up. As for whether or not to use it, I would say you might make things worse. If the brass gear is already shot I suppose you can't really make that any worse, but maybe the impeller shaft worm is still in good shape. The brass probably won't mess the steel up, but it is hard to say.

From your symptoms I would say the machine probably won't work very well anyway even if you did try it.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

jenkinsm2 said:


> OK,
> 
> 2 primary questions come to mind. 1st, is it safe to use the machine to throw snow or would this cause further damage.
> 2nd, Does this sound like I need to replace the brass gear and the worm shaft?


I think your gear case gears are shot and will get worse with more use, but would need to be replaced anyway so no big deal. Further deterioration in the gears may cause the gear case itself to break so you need to get it fixed soon.

The both gears would need to be replaced as a set. It is likely that you don't need the shafts but it depends upon parts availability. Ariens will have a parts manual for your machine on their site in support area so you can see what is available. For my machine the top mounted worm gear is part of the impeller shaft but the auger worm gear appears to be keyed to the auger shaft and replaceable.

There will be some degree of safety concern if the damage causes parts to break and fly apart. 

Good luck.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

To add, Ariens doesn't directly sell the gears anymore. They only sell complete gearbox assemblies. There are still NOS OEM brass gears around if you look. Jackmels here has a pile of old parts and new gears he has been selling to a few members.


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## jenkinsm2 (Dec 7, 2014)

I see the brass gears being sold separate for about $65. I guess I should take it all apart and see what it looks like. Do you think I can get away with just replacing the brass gear? I guess it all depends on the damage. So far I have dropped $170 on this machine, hopefully I do not go over $300 when all is said and done.


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## jenkinsm2 (Dec 7, 2014)

Shryp said:


> To add, Ariens doesn't directly sell the gears anymore. They only sell complete gearbox assemblies. There are still NOS OEM brass gears around if you look. Jackmels here has a pile of old parts and new gears he has been selling to a few members.


Thanks man, honestly, I am considering selling this thing for what I spent on ti so far. From what I can tell replacing the worm gear and shaft is a tough job and costly. I am on the fence.


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## AandPDan (Nov 18, 2014)

Another option, check around C/L or whatever for a dead snowblower, usually with a blown engine. You can swap the entire bucket assembly, auger, gearbox, impeller, all.


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## jenkinsm2 (Dec 7, 2014)

AandPDan said:


> Another option, check around C/L or whatever for a dead snowblower, usually with a blown engine. You can swap the entire bucket assembly, auger, gearbox, impeller, all.


Yea, but those seem few and far between and they might have messed up gearcases as well. I read somewhere that there are alot of older ariens with messed up gear cases because people do not want to do the work. 

If you guys tell me to stick with it and that its worth it I will. Another 65 to 100 bucks will not kill me. 

Or if you say no way, spending $275 to buy and fix an st824 is too much money and time, then I will get rid of it. 

I can make my own choices but I am looking for some opinions.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Well, I think it comes down to what kind of shape the rest of the machine is in. Also, has the engine ever been replaced? Those Tecumseh HM80s are known to blow up when abused so factor another $100 into your decision if you have to go grab a Predator engine from Harbor Freight. Also, another $50 for modern tires is a good investment and another $20 for an impeller kit can help. Some little things that you might not need now, but might want down the road. Also with it being older you might have some bearings and bushings that are due to be replaced soon.

When they run good they are great machines. Much better than a $600 MTD. The only things I wish mine had were the taller chute and remote deflector.


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## AandPDan (Nov 18, 2014)

Take the gear box apart before you do anything. There are bearings and thrust washers in there too, and they can cause a good deal of play in the system. It may not be the gears.

New machines aren't cheap and they have their shares of issues too. 

You can still find lots of parts fortunately.


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

I think the compact gearboxes are just under $100 new and just over $200 for the full size...Good deal if you are running an 11" auger machine


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

I have New 52402600 Gears Available. PM if interested.


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## jenkinsm2 (Dec 7, 2014)

HillnGullyRider said:


> I think the compact gearboxes are just under $100 new and just over $200 for the full size...Good deal if you are running an 11" auger machine


So in your opinion should I just buy a whole new gearbox? I have seen the brass gear for about $60. Worm shaft, brass gear, and 3 bushings for about $120. 

But I have also read that installing a new gearbox might be smarter, easier, and a longer term solution. And the new gearbox is cast iron I think while the original st824, 924050, is made from aluminum.

Any thoughts?


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

As suggested take the gear box apart and evaluate what is junk and what has some good life left in it. From there you can decide if you should buy new or rebuild the gear box.
I had the same symptoms on a Toro and the brass gear was missing half of its teeth. The steel worm was in good condition. The brass is so much softer and is no match to the hardened steel of the worm.

I replaced the brass gear and two bronze bushings that were a bit worn but not too bad. I replaced them because they were cheap and why not with it all torn apart. 

If you are up to it tearing it apart, do so and know for sure what is going on...... and you will make the best choice. 

If you do rebuild it make sure you use the correct gear lube. You may also want to replace the seals too. 

I agree with Shryp: if this machine is running well is better than a new $600 MTD.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

A new gearbox doesn't come with the impeller. Often times getting the old one off can be a chore.


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## jenkinsm2 (Dec 7, 2014)

Shryp said:


> A new gearbox doesn't come with the impeller. Often times getting the old one off can be a chore.


Yea, I am going to break it down myself, I have come this far. Thank you the reminder about the impeller. I think getting the housing separate from the augers/impeller will be tough enough.

Any suggestions for getting the pulley hub off and just the overall removal of the augers/gearbox/impeller from the housing. Based off other videos, this appeared to be the hardest part.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

If your pulley is bolted to a hub just unbolt it and use a puller on the hub. If it isn't you might have to drill 2 holes in it close to the hub and use a bolt puller.


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## peterk (Apr 30, 2014)

I'm working on a 10/28 as we speak. Maybe 3/8" of play in and out on the input shaft, impeller rubbing on the housing. Mine came apart OK and the pin on thr input shaft thrust collar was sheared. I am repairing the aluminum box. Bushings, A new pin, seals and glue it together. A new cast Iron assy is $225.00..... My suggestion is to take it apart and remove the impeller and augers, look inside then make a decision as to fix or replace. Keep in mind I am a cranky old retired auto mechanic!!! Pete


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## f2benny (Dec 18, 2012)

I just replaced the entire gear box assembly for 208 shipped to me. I paid shop to press of the impeller but I think I could have pulled it with a gear puller for free. It was pretty easy to do the replacement.


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## jenkinsm2 (Dec 7, 2014)

Shryp said:


> If your pulley is bolted to a hub just unbolt it and use a puller on the hub. If it isn't you might have to drill 2 holes in it close to the hub and use a bolt puller.


So I have the entire gearbox apart now and everything but the impeller off the worm shaft. 

Half the bronze gear teeth were gone and the thrust collar pin was sheared. 

The shaft threading looks ok compared to other images I see of new ones on ebay. Since I do not want to pay for a new shaft and pay to have the impeller separated, I have decided to not buy a new worm shaft or gearbox.

I ordered the bronze gear, new grease and I will buy a seal, thrust collar pin and put this thing back together. Any suggestions on things to do or look at before I proceed? The bushing by the thrust collar has some small dents but is still intact. I am hoping this will get the machine to throw again.


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## peterk (Apr 30, 2014)

That's good news! It is not the space shuttle, it will work fine.


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