# What is wrong with my snowblower



## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

I have an old Toro 421. Today I changed the oil and spark plug like I do every year before it's first use. When I was changing the oil it seemed like the old oil would not completely drain. When I got all the old oil out, I replaced it with fresh oil. I started it up and white smoke came out of the exhaust and a milky oil started flowing out of the engine. I also found a black spongy material in the pool of milky oil. Did I blow a head gasket? Any other ideas on what it might be and how I can fix it? Thanks.

Jim


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

*My mistake*

It is not a Toro 421, it is a 524.


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## CharlesW (Oct 13, 2010)

Critters chewed up your aircleaner and some of the material got sucked into the motor.
No air cleaner, maybe they built a nest in the intake and the nest got sucked into the intake.

Milky oil usually indicates moisture, but blowing a head gasket won't let coolant enter the engine like it can with a liquid cooled engine.
You may have gotten some water in the motor during storage.

Where did the oil "flow out of the engine"?
The oil might have had enough moisture in it to freeze and not flow to the bearings or have too much moisture to lubricate.
Doesn't sound like a good thing.


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## twofishy4u (Dec 6, 2011)

the breather on these engines have a sponge type filter in them but for that to get into the oil would be an act of god. I'd take compression if your over 90 psi it's good. Then I'd change oil again and try it again and see what happens. You said after it started this milky oil came out? So did you start it before you changed oil? It may just be moisture in the oil. Did it sit outside?


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*oil issues*

Sorry but it would help to have more info.

On the leaking oil - where did it come out? Head, drain plug, exhaust, crankcase cover, around the crank - where?
On the old oil draining - did it look right quantity wise? Did you look into the drain hole, did you see anything?
When it was running - did you hear anything like escaping gas (rhymatic) while it was running?
The white smoke - smell like oil or what?
What brand of engine is on this machine?

Sorry, need more info before anyone can help. Pictures would be helpful indicating areas of issue.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Could not tell exactly where it was coming from because so much was flowing out but it appeared to be coming from where the engine bolts on. As far as the old oil it appeared to be the right quantity but when I put the new oil in after only 3/4 of a quart it was overfilled. I tried to remove more oil out of the drain and it was still the old oil. You cannot see inside the drain hole - too small. I only ran in for about 30 seconds before I realized the milky oil was leaking out of it so I immediately shut it down. As far as the brand I am not sure due to it's age - not the original engine. Also, I did not start it before changing the oil and it is always stored inside my garage. Thanks for your responses - I hope you will be able to help. Thanks again.

Jim


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

most 5 hp engines only take around 20 ounces of oil.......1 quart=32 ounces......you may have overfilled it.

oil may have spilled out the crankcase breather on the side.


drain the oil again, clean everything up, put 20 ounces in

try it again

if you had pictures we could prob tell you what engine you have.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

I will try that but the milky oil that came out was not the new oil I put in (should have been new oil coming out if I overfilled it, right?) Thanks for the advise, I will try it. I will also try to get some pics.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

jbkidsx5 said:


> Also, I did not start it before changing the oil and it is always stored inside my garage.
> Jim


That's your main problem right there..that is probably what caused everything..you should always run the engine before changing the oil, for 10 minutes at least..that heats up the oil and makes it flow *much* easier..

by changing the oil on a cold engine, in the winter, you were draining molasses out of the engine!  if you had heated up the engine first, all the oil would have drained out in a few minutes..with the cold oil, it could have taken 6 hours for all the oil to drain out..

You didnt get nearly all of the old oil out..then when you added in new oil, you seriously overfilled in the engine..which led to all of the problems you described..

you should just start over..
before starting it again, check the dipstick, determine the oil level..if its still high, drain out some oil (while its still cold) check the level again until you reach a proper oil level..then start the engine, let it run for 10 minutes or so..then drain it all out and re-fill...odds are good that will solve everything..

Scot


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks. I will give that a try and let you know what happens.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Scot,
I did like you said (drained some oil until I got it to the proper level) but then while I was running it I could see where it was leaking from - where the motor bolts onto the blower. I took some pics, soon as I figure out how to post them I will. Thanks again, this is a mistake I won't make again.

Jim


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Here are some pics. Hope they help. Thanks again for all the good advice.
Jim

























Let me know if the pictures don't upload, thanks.


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

I have the same 5 HP motor on my Toro 521. I would take about 10 minutes and a bag of rags and clean the whole area thoroughly. It kinda looks like an old oil spill that was not cleaned up properly. Check the oil dipstick tube that it is screwed all the way tight clockwise into the block of the motor. Fire up the machine again and check for fresher oil leakage.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

The side view pics shows where the oil is leaking from. Should have said that before.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

You can see oil leaking from where I took those side view pics while it is running. I wipe it with a rag and it continues to leak. Thanks.

Jim


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

Does the new oil leakage still have a white milky appearance?


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

When I first started it the oil appeared normal but as it kept running it gradually started to turn milky. Can you see from the pictures where it is leaking from?


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

To fix the leak.......you are gonna have to pull the motor off the frame to be able to see which seal is worn out. I would start the motor and the leak should be real obvious. From what I can see in this diagram of your motor.......It is part #3, #46, or #48 ...... Parts and Diagrams for Toro Consumer 38052, 521 Snowthrower, 1988 (SN 8000001-8999999)


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks a lot, I had a feeling I was going to have to pull the motor off but had no idea where to find parts for such an old machine. Thanks a million. I will let you know how it turns out.

Jim


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> Thanks a lot, I had a feeling I was going to have to pull the motor off but had no idea where to find parts for such an old machine. Thanks a million. I will let you know how it turns out.
> 
> Jim


You are welcome Jim.......Your Toro is "NOT" old here to many of us here. Several moderators here have machines 30+ years old and am willing to help you out if I did not step up to the plate. Please contact us when you repaired your Toro 524.....and give us all a full report so others can learn here from your experience  Good Luck! >>>>>>>>>> Talon


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Anything I should know about before removing the motor from the blower? I have never done this before.

Jim


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> Anything I should know about before removing the motor from the blower? I have never done this before.
> 
> Jim


Maybe take a few pictures so you can remember how everything goes back together


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Well I found where it was leaking from - the cylinder cover gasket was like Swiss cheese. I am going to call around and see if anyone has it in stock, if not I will order it from the link that you gave me. Thanks again, that diagram was a huge help. Is there anything else I should replace (preventative maintenance) while I have it apart? Thanks.

Jim


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> Well I found where it was leaking from - the cylinder cover gasket was like Swiss cheese. I am going to call around and see if anyone has it in stock, if not I will order it from the link that you gave me. Thanks again, that diagram was a huge help. Is there anything else I should replace (preventative maintenance) while I have it apart? Thanks.
> 
> Jim


 So it was gasket #46?? If so......I would go ahead and change oil seal #48 also seeing that you already have the cover off. It is cheap and I would change it also if it was me. I would guess your Toro dealer would have both in stock. Get some good quality gasket sealer also at the auto parts store. Good Luck!  >>>>>> Talon


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks again for all the advice. One additional question I have for you, how do I get the old oil seal out? I tried but it is in there pretty good. I have it all disassembled but I did not want to break anything vital near the oil seal. 
Thanks again.

Jim


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Forget the oil seal - I got that. Anything I need to know before reassembling everything?


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> Forget the oil seal - I got that. Anything I need to know before reassembling everything?


Just make sure the gasket surface is real clean. Put a little oil on the oil seal surface before putting everything back together. If you put it together dry.....you risk burning up the new seal. Just think about all the money you saved doing this job yourself  >>>>>> Talon


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Well, it's finally finished and no more oil leaks. Thanks again for all the help. Here is some advice for all the beginners out there - several thing that I learned from this experience (as a beginner) is like you said take pictures of everything BEFORE taking it apart. When changing the oil seal don't be afraid to knock out the old one with a screw driver and a hammer (there is a video on youtube). When putting the belts back on if one of them slip off the pulley remove the belly pan from the bottom of the snowblower to get the belts back on. Lastly check in with these guys on one of the forums - they are a huge help. "Talon" and all the other guys who helped me through this project I can't thank you all enough.

Jim


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

One more question and then I will not bother you all any more. After I finished the project and I started it up I still had the belt/pulley cover off. As it was running I noticed that the large drive pulley (the one next to the auger pulley) was wobbling pretty bad. Any ideas what that might be? Last question, I swear? Off the subject, Talon - noticed you are in Michigan, any chance you are a Redwings or Wolverines fan?


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> One more question and then I will not bother you all any more. After I finished the project and I started it up I still had the belt/pulley cover off. As it was running I noticed that the large drive pulley (the one next to the auger pulley) was wobbling pretty bad. Any ideas what that might be? Last question, I swear? Off the subject, Talon - noticed you are in Michigan, any chance you are a Redwings or Wolverines fan?


Are you sure you put the "key way" back on the shaft before installing the pulley? Glad it all worked out for you. Yes I am a HUGE Red Wing fan and also watch the Wolverines


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Yes I did but the key way back on. The pulley that I am talking about (I am probably not using the right terminology) is the one down below, near the auger pulley. I am a huge Redwings fan also (and I am from Cleveland and my wife is a Penguins fan) I was just at the Redwings/Sabres game last week. Thanks again.

Jim


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Sometimes they just wobble a bit. Make sure the bearing isn't worn out. Grab the pulley and try to shake it up and down. If it moves the bearing / bushing on the shaft that the pulley is on needs replaced. If that isn't the problem it could just be slightly bent or coming loose so tighten it up and it should be fine.

Toro uses a bronze bushing on the impeller shaft and they tend to wear out on the older ones.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Took it all apart - the driveshaft pulley is bent. Looked it up on partstree - it is $133. 
This is becoming an expensive learning experience.

Jim


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

If it isn't too bad I would just use it how it is. Mine wobbles a bit too, but it doesn't cause any problems.


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

Shryp said:


> If it isn't too bad I would just use it how it is. Mine wobbles a bit too, but it doesn't cause any problems.


I agree with Shryp........as parts age they will not always be as straight as new. As long as the belt stays on the pulley......You are good to go Jim


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

It was wobbling so bad that it was rubbing on a bolt right near it. Also the belt looks like it is right on the edge of the pulley while it is turning. I already removed the driveshaft and all associated parts. Its too late to turn back now, can't see putting it back together with worn out parts. I should have checked this forum before taking it apart. Thanks again for the advice. This thing will be like new when I am done with her!!!


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> It was wobbling so bad that it was rubbing on a bolt right near it. Also the belt looks like it is right on the edge of the pulley while it is turning. I already removed the driveshaft and all associated parts. Its too late to turn back now, can't see putting it back together with worn out parts. I should have checked this forum before taking it apart. Thanks again for the advice. This thing will be like new when I am done with her!!!


I busted my ass to help you Jim.............I only wish you the very best down the road buddy with other issues on your Toro 524


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

[QUOTE=Talon1189;6420...........I only wish you the very best down the road buddy with other issues on your Toro 524  Please come back with future problems. Jim


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

You would hate me if I posted an original post of my own Toro from 1986 or newer  You are doing the right thing while repairing your older Toro 524  ......... Older "iron" is the best down the road


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## twofishy4u (Dec 6, 2011)

as long as you are in there put the bearing in behind the auger pulley, for $12 you'll be happy you won't have to take it apart next year.


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## jbkidsx5 (Jan 20, 2012)

Talon - thanks again for all the help, you saved me some big $ and it was a great learning experience. Go Wings!!!
twofishy4u - I had to have the auger pulley replaced just last year after I sucked up a newspaper while snowblowing my neighbor's driveway. I am going to replace the axle bearing while I have it all apart. Thanks.
Jim


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## Talon1189 (Nov 30, 2011)

jbkidsx5 said:


> Talon - thanks again for all the help, you saved me some big $ and it was a great learning experience. Go Wings!!!
> twofishy4u - I had to have the auger pulley replaced just last year after I sucked up a newspaper while snowblowing my neighbor's driveway. I am going to replace the axle bearing while I have it all apart. Thanks.
> Jim


You are welcome......How about Pavel Datsyuk going for the #1 pick in the "Fantasy Draft" ? I am happy to help anyone that will listen to me Jim....... LOL! I am happy that you saved a bunch of money while doing the job yourself buddy while learning a thing or two along the way. That is what life is about in the "snow blower" heaven.........Saving money and the happiness that you receive just knowing that you did the job yourself  >>>>>>>>>>> Talon


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