# Predator vs Loncin vs LCT vs carrol Engine?



## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

Any preferred engines out there?
Thinking of change my 8hp Tecumseh HMSK80 engine with a more silence, powerful and reliable engine when the winter is gone


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Just about any new OHV engine such as LCT or Loncin or even a new Briggs OHV will be a huge upgrade from the old flat head engine. Even the Harbor Freight Predator engine which is made by Loncin which incidently makes engines for Toro would be a upgrade too.


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## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

I think the tecumseh will be changed. 
Any of these replacement engines comes with alternator?
So Loncin makes predator engines?


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

HS80 said:


> I think the tecumseh will be changed.
> Any of these replacement engines comes with alternator?
> So Loncin makes predator engines?


Yes. The new Predator engines are made by Loncin. The old Blue Grey Hound engines were made by Lifan. Go to Harbor freight and check it out. Only the larget 420cc Predator comes with a starter. Even then they are real easy to start usually just 1 to 2 pulls of the recoil. As to alternaters I doubt it with the exception of the 420 cc HF Predator which may have a charging coil. You could get a small belt driven alternater to run your light and charge your battery on your engine. It would be a beast with 14hp.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

HS80 said:


> I think the tecumseh will be changed.
> Any of these replacement engines comes with alternator?
> So Loncin makes predator engines?


I don't know if HF Predator is available in Norway but you can start by doing some of the legwork now by getting your engine's diagram for measurement such as diameter of shaft, distance from middle of shaft to bottom of engine (does your 8 hp have a dual shaft?) and engine base footprint and so forth which will enable you to compare with the proposed new engine with their engine spec. size sheet. Good Luck


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

the carroll steam engines are made by lifan, but i recommend this one, it is an exact clone of a gx200 so all parts will fit

6 5HP Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine Go Cart Generator Log Splitter 4 Stroke New | eBay


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## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

I am going to replace a Tecumseh HMSK80 155606V engine. 
So the best engine for me is a engine that will have the same shaft diameter. I haven't measured the shaft yet.
It would be nice if i could get an 9, 13 or 15 hp engine on...
Predator i have to by from USA, in norway i could get Lutian or Loncin engines. A 9hp lutian with electric starter cost $398, 13hp with electric starter cost $438 and 15hp with electric starter cost $452. 

Maybe the 15hp will be a belt killer 

They also have 10-15 hp diesel engines but they cost $133 more


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## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

43128 said:


> the carroll steam engines are made by lifan, but i recommend this one, it is an exact clone of a gx200 so all parts will fit
> 
> 6 5HP Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine Go Cart Generator Log Splitter 4 Stroke New | eBay



Going to replace a Tecumseh engine on my Canadiana/Murray snowblower. 

I also have an Honda HS80, but its an GX240 engine and i hope the engine will work just fine when i have replace a rocker arm. Will never replace the honda engine as long as it works But the tecumseh engine i will replace because i want more power and i am no fan of tecumseh...


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

GustoGuy said:


> Just about any new OHV engine such as LCT or Loncin or even a new Briggs OHV will be a huge upgrade from the old flat head engine. Even the Harbor Freight Predator engine which is made by Loncin which incidently makes engines for Toro would be a upgrade too.


All of that is an opinion, not a fact.

alternate opinion:
a 10, 20, 30, even 40 year old used Tecumseh flathead engine is a far superior engine to a brand new Harbor Freight engine.

Scot


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

sscotsman said:


> All of that is an opinion, not a fact.
> 
> alternate opinion:
> a 10, 20, 30, even 40 year old used Tecumseh flathead engine is a far superior engine to a brand new Harbor Freight engine.
> ...


Where is the like button?

Plus 1


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

sscotsman said:


> All of that is an opinion, not a fact.
> 
> alternate opinion:
> a 10, 20, 30, even 40 year old used Tecumseh flathead engine is a far superior engine to a brand new Harbor Freight engine.
> ...


I will respectfully counter that with... Even if I had the expertise (which I do not. I have a machine shop background so indeed I could learn it but that's added time I don't want to invest) of being able to rebuild and refresh my old HM80, it would NOT be as torquey , as quiet, or as fuel efficient as my new 301cc Predator even after the rebuild. 

That said, I realize the Tecumseh (and Briggs, Kohler, and Wisconsin) were all good choices "back in the day", and that they last well,if well cared for, but the modern OHV design is simply a superior design and technology marches on. 

Myself, If I had a big ol' long diveway and could justify it, I would restore a big ol' GRAVELY SNOW CANNON and would enjoy all of it (love them !!)even with a louder engine like the Kohler -but that's not saying that I wouldn't be *tempted* by one of Honda's larger machines or even hunting down a Yamaha for some peace and quiet 

So my opinion is that you get what you like, depending on your level of refinement and how much noise you are willing to tolerate. Old iron is good, as are old Harleys, but some of us like Honda's just as much as Harley's. Buy what you want, they both will blow snow and clear the driveway


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

But here is the interesting bit for me:
When the performance of a 40 year old Tecumseh is perfectly fine, when it works great and it does everything you need it to do, how could a new engine be "better"? 

I have never understood how OHV or "newer technology" would get me something I don't already have, when I'm already lacking nothing.

And for me, the most important factor is long term reliability and overall build quality..we don't have enough years on the Harbor Freight engines yet to make a judgement on them, but based on what we do know about their overall quality (it's low overall) I have a hard time believing they will make it 40 years..
So based on that, I have to give the higher quality rating to Tecumseh..I honestly would take a 40 year old Tecumseh over a brand new Harbor Freight any day..
Scot


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## charley95 (Feb 10, 2014)

sscotsman said:


> But here is the interesting bit for me:
> When the performance of a 40 year old Tecumseh is perfectly fine, when it works great and it does everything you need it to do, how could a new engine be "better"?
> 
> I have never understood how OHV or "newer technology" would get me something I don't already have, when I'm already lacking nothing.
> ...


I must agree! I just retired my 28yr. old Snow King 5hp. Don't have time to to rebuild it and replaced it with a new Honda HS724WA blower. Time will tell on the Honda. I must say the ol Tecumseh was extremely reliable up till about last year. It would always start on the first pull. I'm sure the quality of the metal content in the Predator doesn't compare to the older engines.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

sscotsman said:


> But here is the interesting bit for me:
> When the performance of a 40 year old Tecumseh is perfectly fine, when it works great and it does everything you need it to do, how could a new engine be "better"?
> 
> I have never understood how OHV or "newer technology" would get me something I don't already have, when I'm already lacking nothing.
> ...



I have owned both engines and the carburetor was the biggest issue with the Tecumseh. The engine would seemingly go out of tune when it was running. It was fairly difficult to start especially when the engine was cold. I have 2 Briggs engines on my lawnmowers and I will keep them since they both run well and start easily. The Tecumseh was replaced because it was not a shining example of quality or reliability.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Yes its true Tecumseh carbs can be finicky..as I know from recent experience!  I was recently reading some threads on the Wheel Horse forum..most people there also say the Tecumsehs are good engines except for the carbs...(antique Garden Tractor enthusiasts rate Kohlers the best.)

But..

New Chinese carbs aren't exactly wonderful or problem free either!  Lots of people are having problems there..so if we want to rate Harbor Freight vs. Tecumseh based only on carb performance, its a tie. You can't use Tecumseh carbs as a minus when rating against new Chinese engines..
Scot


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

i understand part of your argument, i will only repower if an engine isnt economically repair like a cracked block. if the engine runs or needs only minor work like a carb cleaning or replacement, it stays. if the cost of repair outweighs the cost of a clone, then the engine gets thrown on cl for parts and a clone is slapped on


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

sscotsman said:


> But here is the interesting bit for me:
> When the performance of a 40 year old Tecumseh is perfectly fine, when it works great and it does everything you need it to do, how could a new engine be "better"?
> 
> I have never understood how OHV or "newer technology" would get me something I don't already have, when I'm already lacking nothing.
> ...


 Scot.. That is a fair argument. And this is an interesting debate. I wish not to offend, just to explain my point of view. I DO understand you point of view as well. Some of the guys I used to ride with had Harley's and not one of them would have dreamed of dropping a Honda engine on it... ever. 

I guess we can agree to disagree based on the fact that we are looking for different outcome. I am not looking to keep my old 824 another 30 or 40 years, just looking to enjoy it quieter (thats an OHV biggie for me as I hated the noise of the HM80), and more torquey powerband for another 8 or 10 years and I honestly believe that with todays' synthetics (Mobil1 is what I use) that it may even go longer. 

So..to answer "how could a new engine be "better" : ..Originally I was turned on to the OHV engine watching the 6.5 / 212cc repower videos on YouTube and reading on this forum those who have been quite happy with it some saying it "breathed new life" into the old machine and others saying "best 99 dollars I ever spent", the machines didn't seem to bog down (replacing 5,7,8hp all on 21,22 or 24 inch models) and sounded real good. Surely if you watch some of those you will see why it sparks an interest, even if it doesn't interest you in particular. 

Nobody expects one who enjoys "old iron" to alter their ways, we just hope that you won't knock those of us who are adopting newer designs for the benefits (howerver small you may interpret them) that we see in them. This is agreeing to disagree and all enjoying the forum for our common interest in snowblowers  And, I still want that old big loud GRAVELY some day. When I get a bigger driveway. When that happens my neighbors will be MUCH further away and I can run it at 1am without waking them.


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## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

Tecumseh might be good engines, but their carb sucks... i don't want to spend hours in the garage with the carb. As long as the engine runs smooth, i will use it. The best snowblower i have is a Honda, and of course its a quiet and good ohv engine.

The biggest benefit with upgrading is more power, quiter engine and hopefully not so much adjustments.
Its a cheaper option to replace engine than buying a new snowblower. A new Yamaha YT660E cost 4000$ and a new Honda HSS760ET $4000... 
I think i will never buy a new snowblower with chinese engine... I prefer Honda, Yamaha or Yanmar.


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## charley95 (Feb 10, 2014)

I must have been the lucky one with the carb. on my 28 yr. old Tecumseh. i bought it new in 1988. It first started to give me problems last season. I always ran it dry at the end of winter before changing oil & plug. It was never touched in all of those years. That motor would always start first pull every season.

The properties of the metal in the chinese engine has to be second rate compared to the older engines. Do we really think that a Predator is going to last decades like the old???? I think not.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Go with a Briggs & Stratton. Here is a map of the dealers near you. I can appreciate both views of this issue I have a Toro 524 with the original HS50 engine and yes the carb is a bit touchy. My son loves using it but the constant adjustments, noise, and overall smelling like I did after using the 70's Toro lawnmower back in the day. This makes me realize I will probably go to a new engine before next winter so he can use it regularly.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Pathfinder13 said:


> I will respectfully counter that with... Even if I had the expertise (which I do not. I have a machine shop background so indeed I could learn it but that's added time I don't want to invest) of being able to rebuild and refresh my old HM80, it would NOT be as torquey , as quiet, or as fuel efficient as my new 301cc Predator even after the rebuild.
> 
> That said, I realize the Tecumseh (and Briggs, Kohler, and Wisconsin) were all good choices "back in the day", and that they last well,if well cared for, but the modern OHV design is simply a superior design and technology marches on.
> 
> ...


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## Surge (Dec 31, 2013)

I only have experience with Honda small OHV engines on my two lawn mowers and a made in USA Briggs OHV engine on my 2010 Simplicity snowblower. I initially was concerned that the Briggs would not start as easily as the Honda or be too noisy. But so far I have been pleasantly surprised as it starts on the first pull and is not loud.
I personally would never buy an engine from China due to many problems I have had with various goods from that country, but most of all because I do not want to give that country any more economic leverage to use against us. Just my own personal bias/opinion.
So if I was purchasing an engine today it would either be a used one or a Honda.
Currently the predator engines and other engines that are manufactured in China appear to be okay. Time will tell if they will be durable but I suspect they will be reasonably good based on comments from people who have been using them for several years. If they were very bad I think we would have heard reports of them breaking down by now.
I do not like engines with finicky carburetors, or very loud small engines so I would personally avoid Tecumseh based on comments from owners. However, I understand how some owners love the challenge of restoring or keeping those engines going and even like the louder sound, much like Harley owners love their bikes. It's just not my preference.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

charley95 said:


> I must agree! I just retired my 28yr. old Snow King 5hp. Don't have time to to rebuild it and replaced it with a new Honda HS724WA blower. Time will tell on the Honda. I must say the ol Tecumseh was extremely reliable up till about last year. It would always start on the first pull. I'm sure the quality of the metal content in the Predator doesn't compare to the older engines.


Charley time will tell but it does have a cast iron bore and there are those who use the engines in generators on construction sites and according to the reviews they hold up. That a lot more hrs than a blower gets used and at warmer temperatures at full throttle. Keep clean synthetic oil in there.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

sscotsman said:


> Yes its true Tecumseh carbs can be finicky..as I know from recent experience!  I was recently reading some threads on the Wheel Horse forum..most people there also say the Tecumsehs are good engines except for the carbs...(antique Garden Tractor enthusiasts rate Kohlers the best.)
> 
> But..
> 
> ...


Check out the go kart sites they have tons and tons of parts as well as genuine Honda carbs which are MUCH better than predator or tecumseh or even Briggs. They can be had for about 50 bucks and will bolt right on and operate perfectly, and are adjustable unlike the cheap predator or other clones original equip. 

That being said I would agree there was nothing wrong with my Tecumseh carburetor (no ethanol !)and I really don't care what kind you have if you use ethanol gas you will eventually have problems unless you drain it all the time. I personally use gas from the airfield with no ethanol it's 93 octane and runs beautiful. I am willing to pay more for it. The Honda "eu" generator loves it too.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

43128 said:


> i understand part of your argument, i will only repower if an engine isnt economically repair like a cracked block. if the engine runs or needs only minor work like a carb cleaning or replacement, it stays. if the cost of repair outweighs the cost of a clone, then the engine gets thrown on cl for parts and a clone is slapped on


My old hm80 Will go on craigslist so I get some of the money back from the ohv repower..someone will buy it because it starts with the first or second pull and has electric start and has synthetic oil in, new fuel line and shutoff etc. i'll probably get 75 bucks easily. Almost Half the cost of the repower . Not that I'm worried about the money it's not exactly a huge amount . We're talking 100 bucks not 1000. It was just too noisy for me and it vibrated too much. It's all in what you like I just didn't like it anymore. 

You have to understand there is no right or wrong here it is personal preference. People may think there is a right or wrong that's fine but it's just an opinion ...truth is it's all in what the owner end-user prefers to have on their machine. I really like the thick metal and build quality of the old machines as compared to the thin metal out there today I just did not enjoy the engine. Again personal preference.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

charley95 said:


> I must have been the lucky one with the carb. on my 28 yr. old Tecumseh. i bought it new in 1988. It first started to give me problems last season. I always ran it dry at the end of winter before changing oil & plug. It was never touched in all of those years. That motor would always start first pull every season.
> 
> The properties of the metal in the chinese engine has to be second rate compared to the older engines. Do we really think that a Predator is going to last decades like the old???? I think not.


True! If it last 10 years for the money it costs I'll happily slap another one on there. It does have a cast-iron bore so with clean synthetic oil ..Time will tell. We don't have enough information yet to shoot them down without that test of time.


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## charley95 (Feb 10, 2014)

Pathfinder13 said:


> Charley time will tell but it does have a cast iron bore and there are those who use the engines in generators on construction sites and according to the reviews they hold up. That a lot more hrs than a blower gets used and at warmer temperatures at full throttle. Keep clean synthetic oil in there.


I'm 50 and hoping the Honda will be my last snowblower I'll ever need to buy. I run Mobil 1 in every engine I own! If I were going to replace the engine on my old MTD I would probably go ahead and do the Predator. Not to say I'm I fan of them, just saying from a cost standpoint.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Yes. Put a name brand fully adjustable Honda carburetor on the Predator engine if your one of the few who might have a problem. Tecumseh carburetors were prone to issues. I have not heard of any major problems nor have any of my 3 Predators engines had problems with clone carburetors if the engine is stored properly.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

GustoGuy said:


> Yes. Put a name brand fully adjustable Honda carburetor on the Predator engine if your one of the few who might have a problem. Tecumseh carburetors were prone to issues. I have not heard of any major problems nor have any of my 3 Predators engines had problems with clone carburetors if the engine is stored properly.



That's great to know from someone who has three of them I'm hoping to have that same good luck. I use non-ethanol fuel and I do let the carb run dry and drain it or at least I did on my Tecumseh, and I will do the same on the predator. The only reason I knew about the Honda carbs being available is I was surfing around on the go cart sites and eBay you just have to be careful on how they word it has to be genuine OEM Honda not "for Honda" . I'm not great at adjusting carbs although I could learn it I'm just going to leave my predator carb intact as long as it runs good. My rejet was a success and I'm going to continue using the non-ethanol fuel I feel it is worth the money as well as synthet/mobile1.


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## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

Zavie said:


> Go with a Briggs & Stratton. Here is a map of the dealers near you. I can appreciate both views of this issue I have a Toro 524 with the original HS50 engine and yes the carb is a bit touchy. My son loves using it but the constant adjustments, noise, and overall smelling like I did after using the 70's Toro lawnmower back in the day. This makes me realize I will probably go to a new engine before next winter so he can use it regularly.



A new Briggs engine costs to much...


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## AL- (Oct 27, 2014)

As a bottom line we really don't have any long term information on Chinese made engines. I remember a few years back when I was quite disappointed with my supposed top of the line Stihl chainsaw. When I took it apart the cylinder walls were scored. When I researched the problem I found that the smaller models like I had did not have the same quality cast iron cylinder liner that the larger pro- sized models had. The smaller model were now being mass produced for the average homeowner. So in comparison, even though the Chinese engines have cast iron cylinder walls does not mean they are long term engines. Its nice to hear that they are less expensive and at least on the short term are preforming quite well.


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## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

What is the best engine to replace a tecumseh HMSK80 155606V ? Is HMSK80 delivered with different shaft sizes? Need one that is almost plug and play


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

AL- said:


> As a bottom line we really don't have any long term information on Chinese made engines. Its nice to hear that they are less expensive and at least on the short term are preforming quite well.


There is a distinction to be made at least with the LCT engines Ariens uses,
LCT is American owned and they own their factories in China thereby having quality control issues taken care of before leaving the plants. Just saying.


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## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

i need same pulley for a engine with 25mm shaft or i need a engine with same shaft size as the tecumseh HMSK80 155606V...


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## HS80 (Jan 12, 2015)

Murray 1501109mA Engine Pulley Replaces 1501123 MT1501123MA Brand New | eBay

this is the pulley on my tecumseh engine.


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