# 2 Cycle oil for Toro 3650



## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Hello All
I was wondering if one oil is better than the rest. I bought an off brand from the local hardware store and it seems to smoke quite a bit. I mixed it to the correct 50:1 ratio. 

I know some smoke is normal.


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## carguy20 (Feb 8, 2021)

This is probably a subject that has been discussed many, many times. I actually have the exact same blower. I picked it up used last winter, and it still runs good. I have been using Husqvarna Low Smoke that I have had for awhile, and it seems to run fine. 

I would personally say to stick to a good name brand, and synthetic if possible. Also, make sure to mix at 50-1, perhaps even slightly richer (maybe put .95 of a gallon of gas instead of a full gallon). 

Do some research and see which brand you feel would be best. I am sure others will chime in.


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Red Armor 2 cycle oil made by Echo would be a great choice. It's the only oil I'll run in my 2 stroke equipment (backpack blower, string trimmer, and hedge trimmers). Reduced exhaust smell and much cleaner exhaust ports. Really good stuff. The big orange stores carries Red Armor.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Use synthetic, and Toro recommends TC-W3 oil.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

There are plenty of good ones. Here's a link to the NMMA certification website. I believe any oil on this list should be fine. Stay away from oil that claim to be TC-W3 but aren't listed. I prefer synthetic.
Certification - TC-W3


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Tony P. said:


> There are plenty of good ones. Here's a link to the NMMA certification website. I believe any oil on this list should be fine. Stay away from oil that claim to be TC-W3 but aren't listed. I prefer synthetic.
> Certification - TC-W3


Thanks for the list, I didn't know there was one.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Thanks, I will do some more reading


Freezn said:


> Red Armor 2 cycle oil made by Echo would be a great choice. It's the only oil I'll run in my 2 stroke equipment (backpack blower, string trimmer, and hedge trimmers). Reduced exhaust smell and much cleaner exhaust ports. Really good stuff. The big orange stores carries Red Armor.


I went to Home Depot and bought some. I will give it a try.


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## mick461 (Dec 28, 2020)

STIHL 2 cycle oil always worked in my TORO and it has the fuel preservative no need for stabil as per my hardware store small engine guy!


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## sledman8002002 (Jan 20, 2021)

I used Quaker State for years and years with no issues related to the oil. Roughly for the past 10 I've been using Opti-2 pre-mix as I receive it for next to nothing.
Basically if your brand works for you, stick with it if available.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

I use Pennzoil Marine full syn TCW3 oil in mine; they don’t sell the full syn any longer but I bought a gallon of it a number of years back and being a gallon it will probably last several more years. They now sell a syn blend that probably works as well. I do get some smoke but it subsides as the engine warms up.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Pennzoil Premium Plus or Pennzoil XLF is what I’d use if buying TCW3 now…


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Thanks everyone for all of your help


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Cstanis said:


> Thanks everyone for all of your help


Dont mix it richer (more oil) as some think is better. If you use synthetic you have plenty of protection. If you mix it richer you risk fowling the plug and you loose a bit of power. In theory anyway. The upside is nill and the down side is greater. As this thread illuminates, There is no shortage of good choices.


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

Tony P. said:


> There are plenty of good ones. Here's a link to the NMMA certification website. I believe any oil on this list should be fine. Stay away from oil that claim to be TC-W3 but aren't listed. I prefer synthetic.
> Certification - TC-W3


That list is interesting, but it is primarily for marine engines and I don't know why oils like Stihl's 2 stroke or other popular brands are not on the list. If Toro recommends TC-W3, then any such oil should be good.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

WrenchIt said:


> That list is interesting, but it is primarily for marine engines and I don't know why oils like Stihl's 2 stroke or other popular brands are not on the list. If Toro recommends TC-W3, then any such oil should be good.


Not just primarily, exclusively. TC-W3 refers to two-stroke, water cooled marine oil. All TC-W3 motor oils are certified by NMMA - National Marine Manufacturers Association. The Toro 3650 uses marine oil.


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## NOS (Dec 3, 2021)

My sled and bike are both oil injected and use Yamaha Yamalube 2S..

I premix it 35:1 for my mower and find its not very smokey.
Works in my JD chainsaw no issues and my 1980's Weed-eater 1700 no issues.( also 35 : 1 )

Buy it at walmart, works in everything.
Probably could use in outboards too.
My DT200 is liquid cooled


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## Toyboy (Dec 19, 2010)

Tony P. said:


> There are plenty of good ones. Here's a link to the NMMA certification website. I believe any oil on this list should be fine. Stay away from oil that claim to be TC-W3 but aren't listed. I prefer synthetic.
> Certification - TC-W3


*TC-W3 *is for water cooled marine applications. Not air cooled engines.


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

Been using OPTI 2 for the last 17 years without any problems. Works for every ratio 30:1, 40:1, 50:1 and everything in between. No smell, no smoke no motor meltdown, no overheating and no hard starting. Use it in all backpack blowers, weed whackers, bush trimmers, chainsaws and of course in the 2 cycle snow blower too. Will never use anything else because there's no reason to look elsewhere. 2 cycle oil


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Toyboy said:


> *TC-W3 *is for water cooled marine applications. Not air cooled engines.


But Toro like Lawn Boy has always recommended TCW3 for their 2 stroke engines. The reason is that the snow blower and mower engines run slower and cooler that most air cooled 2 strokes (3600 rpm vs 6000-9000 rpm for trimmers, blowers and chain saws). The oil for TCW3 has no ash vs the TC air cooled oil has low ash. The ash is like an anti wear agent and burns off in high revving 2 strokes but can cause deposits in low revving 2 strokes. So TCW3 will more than adequately protect the Toro 2 stroke blower with less deposits. The build up of deposits is one of the things that causes wear with 2 strokes. I’ve run my 1998 Toro on TCW3 since new. It runs great as new. You can use TC oil (air cooled) in them as well, the only down side might be more deposits. I have never had to de carb the exhaust ports in mine either.


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## GKK (Apr 29, 2021)

The very first thing the Toro dealer told me when I purchased my 2450 was to use a 40 to 1 mix instead of the 50 to 1 recommended mix. At the time, he found that the lean mix was resulting in cylinder scoring and ring wear. I have used 40 to 1 without issue since new. I have changed the plug twice in 15 years! It has been removed several times for cleaning but in none of those instances was it very dirty or fouled.


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## NOS (Dec 3, 2021)

GKK said:


> The very first thing the Toro dealer told me when I purchased my 2450 was to use a 40 to 1 mix instead of the 50 to 1 recommended mix. At the time, he found that the lean mix was resulting in cylinder scoring and ring wear. I have used 40 to 1 without issue since new. I have changed the plug twice in 15 years! It has been removed several times for cleaning but in none of those instances was it very dirty or fouled.


My Dad was always pushing to run 50:1 on his LB mower.
He knew better because he worked for OMC in the 60 BLA BLA....
His Dad, my Gran would use the same 50:1 he mixed for his boats and add enough oil to knock it down to about 40:1
Two old mechanics....

I run 35:1 so it covers all the bases with all my stuff....
The argument was the oils were significantly better then ( 1980s ) than they were in the 1950s and 60s.
I am inclined to agree with that.
But these engines were also designed to puke up all that extra oil, so as long as your not using more than what the designers intended it probably not a big deal.

How many Canadian's remember " Grand Prix " snowmachine oil from the 60s?
My god that was so full of graphite you had to shake the can before you mixed it. ( and it made some real ash )
Oil tech has come a long way....


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

NOS said:


> My Dad was always pushing to run 50:1 on his LB mower.
> He knew better because he worked for OMC in the 60 BLA BLA....
> His Dad, my Gran would use the same 50:1 he mixed for his boats and add enough oil to knock it down to about 40:1
> Two old mechanics....
> ...


I think for now I am going to follow the toro 50:1 recommendation. I am not as knowledgeable as you guys to alter the ratios


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## GKK (Apr 29, 2021)

NOS said:


> My Dad was always pushing to run 50:1 on his LB mower.
> He knew better because he worked for OMC in the 60 BLA BLA....
> His Dad, my Gran would use the same 50:1 he mixed for his boats and add enough oil to knock it down to about 40:1
> Two old mechanics....
> ...


It was funny that after being told to run 40 to1 the dealer gave me a 4oz can of Lawn Boy 2 stroke oil and said to use it for the first gallon run thru the machine (32 to 1). I continued to use the LawnBoy oil as he told me it was made by the same manufacturer as Toro oil (which he also sold) but cost less. I changed to Echo and/or Husky oils not to long ago because I can get it in 3.2 oz bottles for easier mixing. I leaned that not only was he a Toro equipment dealer and other smaller equipment Echo, Husky, Stihl. He also rented Toro equipment and was also a certified repair facility for everything he sold plus lots of others he did not (all the MTD manufactured machines etc.). I liked that he was well stocked in parts if ever needed. He was a straight shooter and never tried to baffle me in BS. He recently retired and sold the shop. I just hope the new people are as well versed.


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## maicoman2 (Jan 13, 2021)

GKK said:


> It was funny that after being told to run 40 to1 the dealer gave me a 4oz can of Lawn Boy 2 stroke oil and said to use it for the first gallon run thru the machine (32 to 1). I continued to use the LawnBoy oil as he told me it was made by the same manufacturer as Toro oil (which he also sold) but cost less. I changed to Echo and/or Husky oils not to long ago because I can get it in 3.2 oz bottles for easier mixing. I leaned that not only was he a Toro equipment dealer and other smaller equipment Echo, Husky, Stihl. He also rented Toro equipment and was also a certified repair facility for everything he sold plus lots of others he did not (all the MTD manufactured machines etc.). I liked that he was well stocked in parts if ever needed. He was a straight shooter and never tried to baffle me in BS. He recently retired and sold the shop. I just hope the new people are as well versed.


The answer to your question is find any 2 stroke oil and run it at 32 to 1. 4 ozs to the gallon and everything will be fine.Synthetic premix oil is not needed for lawn equipment but if you get synthetic just make sure you use between 3 and 4.More is always better !


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Toro in some of their service literature did say you can run these machines on 40:1, I don’t really see the need to go to 32:1 and it would be interesting to see inspections of the same engines exhaust ports to see if different mix ratios actually result in different levels of deposits. It’s easy be off in your mixing anyway though even just trying to get exactly one gallon of gas in your gas can to start!


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## carguy20 (Feb 8, 2021)

There are probably 1000 different opinions on this topic. 

I know my MTD calls for 32-1, the Husqvarna I gave to a friend called for 40-1, and my Toro calls for 50-1. 

A "LITTLE" extra would probably not hurt, but not enough could hurt.


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## NOS (Dec 3, 2021)

GKK said:


> It was funny that after being told to run 40 to1 the dealer gave me a 4oz can of Lawn Boy 2 stroke oil and said to use it for the first gallon run thru the machine (32 to 1). I continued to use the LawnBoy oil as he told me it was made by the same manufacturer as Toro oil (


At one time that oil was the same as OMC outboard oil and it was blended by Castrol.
My Gran was convinced it was exactly the same oil.
My Dad was convinced it was a proprietary blend.

I think Yamalube 4S outperforms all of them.
Sometimes I even mix it into straight gas for infrequent use engines to leave a residue on the valves and liner.


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## jbird68 (Dec 30, 2021)

From day-one I've used the little packets of synthetic oil that you mix with 1 gallon of gas. They were like a dollar per packet at the local Toro dealer. Then they stopped carrying them and had little bottles that were 3 times the cost. I went a couple years using the bottles until I finally found another brand of the synthetic packets at the local true value. I just find it easier to squeeze a packet into my 1 gallon gas can then fill the can from my 2 1/2 gallon can. 

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk


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## NOS (Dec 3, 2021)

jbird68 said:


> From day-one I've used the little packets of synthetic oil that you mix with 1 gallon of gas. They were like a dollar per packet at the local Toro dealer. Then they stopped carrying them and had little bottles that were 3 times the cost. I went a couple years using the bottles until I finally found another brand of the synthetic packets at the local true value. I just find it easier to squeeze a packet into my 1 gallon gas can then fill the can from my 2 1/2 gallon can.
> 
> Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk


A long the same lines I have an old bottle for mixing Stabil I refilled with Yamahlube.
I squeeze up 35ml and add to one litre glass bottle when I need mixed gas.

The less you mix the chance it has to go stale and seperate.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)




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## carguy20 (Feb 8, 2021)

I am going to look into one of those mix bottles, never thought they would exist.


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## GKK (Apr 29, 2021)

When I got my new two stage I thought I'd be using my little Toro 2 stroke less. I went out and got some canned 40 to1 fuel (Power Care from HD) to have as needed. Needless to say all I've used is the Toro so far this season. It sure seems like the Toro likes the canned pre-mixed fuel a lot more than my mixed concoctions. It's more expensive initially but I only use a can as needed. It has a longer shelf life than a pump gas mix so I don't worry about using old fuel mixes.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

It is interesting to note that both Toro, and Tecumseh recommend TCW-III (marine 2 stroke oil) for their 2 stroke snow blower engines. Many are unaware of this, thinking you can't use it because the snowblower engine is air cooled. While you shouldn't use it in high rpm air cooled 2 strokes like blowers, trimmers and chain saws, it is actually better for snow blower engines because:
1) they run at much lower rpms that other air cooled 2 strokes
2) they run cooler than other air cooled 2 strokes and that makes them more prone to deposits
3) use of the TCW-III vs the oil for air cooled 2 strokes will result in less deposits in cool running, low rpm 2 strokes
4) excessive deposits is what causes trouble in 2 strokes vs 4 strokes


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

carguy20 said:


> I am going to look into one of those mix bottles, never thought they would exist.


I have a couple ratio rite cups in garage that I use to mix gas from my husqvarna bike. They used to see them at cycle shops now mostly online

 http://ratiorite.com/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Elfiero (Apr 9, 2019)

prefer to use whatever is the cheapest I can find and run the mixture at factory reccomeded specs.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

PS
I’ve used the TCW-III for 24 years in this machine never had to clean the exhaust ports. They are clean!


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

Cstanis said:


> I think for now I am going to follow the toro 50:1 recommendation. I am not as knowledgeable as you guys to alter the ratios


Ratiorite is the way to go, as @groomerz said. Pick your column on the outside of the cup, go down to the mix and there is a level line. Fill the cup w/ oil to that line and add it to the number of gallons you are planning to mix. I put a piece of masking tape on the outside of mine at the 1 gallon line since that is all I make each time. Oh, and I've been running straight 50:1 in all my Stihl equipment AND my Toro Powerlites w/ no problems. YMMV (LOL - your mix may vary).









Amazon.com: Ratio-Rite Measuring Cup (does not come with lid): Home & Kitchen


Online Shopping for Kitchen Utensils & Gadgets from a great selection at everyday low prices. Free 2-day Shipping with Amazon Prime.



www.amazon.com


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## ralphfr (11 mo ago)

When I first purchased my Toro SS in 2011 from my local OPE dealer he suggested Red Max. The ratio is 50:1. They stopped making it a few years ago but it appears it is available again on Amazon. I haven't bought any because I couldn't find the premeasured 2.6OZ bottles so I've been using whatever I can find. The Red Max has been the cleanest in my limited experience with different brands


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## shallowwatersailor (Feb 19, 2013)

Reading through this thread has allowed me to reminisce about owning a Toro S-200E for winter and a Lawn Boy mower for summer in the 1980's and early 1990's. Both used the same 32:1 gas mixture so never went stale.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

carguy20 said:


> I am going to look into one of those mix bottles, never thought they would exist.


I got that one at West Marine some years back.


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