# Rapidtrak hydro speed drops off



## crstrode (May 25, 2017)

I've noticed that the maximum speed drops off after I've been blowing for an hour or so. Has anyone else noticed this? When I first get going in the morning I need to almost trot to keep up, but when I'm almost finished with 700 feet of 16 foot wide hilly asphalt driveways, the max speed is noticeably lower.


Other than that, I'm pleased as punch, as my third season of use is winding down.



My machine is an Ariens model 926060 Pro 28 Rapid Trak Hydro.


----------



## kimber (Dec 19, 2019)

I have the model 926078 and have not noticed any drive speed changes at all, my max speed is very fast, are your rpm's dropping too? I wouldn't be too concerned with it, the engine is warmed up at the end of use and the govenor is doing its job would be my guess, have you checked the drive cable adj., maybe stretched a bit after 3 seasons?


----------



## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

That does sound weird. I agree with kimber that the first thing to check would be the drive belt cable tension. It would be easy to play with that by tightening that cable once you get it working in the manner where it's slower and see if that "fixes" it. 

I've got a 926060 as well that has been a fantastic machine. The only drive related issue I've had was that when going uphill in reverse while climbing over rough packed ice steps, I was able stop the machine even though it was in "full speed" reverse. It was a case of the drive belt slipping and I addressed it by simply tightening the drive clutch cable. I adjusted the drive clutch cable to a happy medium of both not slipping, while also not having too much belt drag while not engaged.

The complete set of variables for your case are:
-Engine speed
-Drive belt slip (or not)
-Hydrostatic drive ratio (input : output) as a function of lever position

If playing with the drive belt cable tension doesn't change it, assuming that the hydrostatic drive is OK, you could check the engine RPM, but that might require buying something like this tachometer: https://www.amazon.com/Briggs-Stratton-19200-Tachometer/dp/B0044AV5VK/ref=asc_df_B0044AV5VK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198123788296&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17474826610835022872&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028883&hvtargid=aud-801738734305la-320880335015&psc=1


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Sounds like your Hydro trans is going bad. If it is made by Hydro-Gear, it is common, they do not last long at all.
The pistons and the cylinder blocks wear out very quickly due to poor steel they are made from.
They slow down when they get warm then hot because of excessive clearance between the pistons and cylinders of the drive pumps and motors.
We replace them all the time on tractors that get more usage out of them, and a snowblower is no different.
Some of the older units could be rebuilt, which I have done too many to count. A lot of the newer ones, you just replace the whole unit, sometimes it is cheaper that way.
It is very common for a Hydro-Gear trans to fail, they do not last too long.
The older units made by Honda, Eaton, Vickers, Sundstrand and others were built so much better and lasted for decades.


----------



## crstrode (May 25, 2017)

The engine speed does not drop, or surge at all. However the comment about stopping or slowing while in reverse on difficult terrain is interesting. I just noticed that this year for the first time while trying to back up a slippery and ice-encrusted slope.

The speed drop-off happens after everything is fully warm, and the machine has been working hard for quite some time. Indeed it may be as simple as a belt slipping - even though I've not noticed any other belt slipping-type symptoms.

This is my very first snowblower and I could not be more pleased - the symptom I describe is minor. Everything still works - just a bit slower. 

I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be no more blowable snow this season so I will check the drive belt adjustment as part of my end-of season maintenance. 

If anyone has more info, tips, or comments I hope to see them.


Thank you my friends.


:smile2:


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

If its not your belt, its your transmission.
Belt slippage is not a common problem on a Hydro trans, they are rarely effected by a belt slip like a mechanical/friction drive is.
The Hydro trans doesn't give the belt a shock load when engaging like a mechanical/friction drive does, causing that sudden jerk/slip when it is engaged, the Hydro acts as a small "Cushion" when it first engages till it loads up with the resistance of the drive and hydraulic pressure.
The sudden "Jerk/Slip" is what causes the sides of the belt to wear and then the belt has to drop down in the pulleys further to regain its grip. Your drive belts have most of their "Traction/Grip" on the sides, not the bottom or top of the belt.
The "Sides" are the "V" part of the belt. 
When a belt wears, most is on the sides of it. Belts rarely ever "Stretch", although most people think they actually stretch. They would usually break apart if they stretched because of the Cord inside of them.
When a Hydro trans starts going bad, you have the "Slowing" problem when they get hot.


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

crstrode said:


> I've noticed that the maximum speed drops off after I've been blowing for an hour or so. Has anyone else noticed this? When I first get going in the morning I need to almost trot to keep up, but when I'm almost finished with 700 feet of 16 foot wide hilly asphalt driveways, the max speed is noticeably lower.
> 
> Other than that, I'm pleased as punch, as my third season of use is winding down.
> 
> My machine is an Ariens model 926060 Pro 28 Rapid Trak Hydro.


Could your machine still be under warranty after 3 years approx. It would be worth discussing your issue with your Ariens dealer to see if this is a known problem and there may be a fix.

I read in the Honda forum a very similar issue where the machine would slow down. I think the problem was air in the system due to a problem plate that was fixed under warranty with an additional reservoir to keep the hydraulic unit full of oil. The factory fix was to correct the plate.


----------



## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

What ST1100A is saying about hydro trannies makes complete sense to me and is plausible. However, I would hope that they would typically last much longer than 3 seasons on a commercial level machine that’s only getting residential use. 

I haven’t heard about issues from others with the Ariens hydro tranny yet so far. In some other discussions about the Ariens hydro tranny, people were saying they were not really failing in the field. My dealer says they haven’t had issues and we get a lot of snow here (Steamboat Springs, CO). So keeping my fingers crossed.

I agree with Town that it might make sense to jump on it with the dealer, in case it is the hydro tranny and you might be close to the warranty expiring.

I got the 2 year warranty extension (5 years total). I just checked and I do NOT see any warranty exclusion for the hydro tranny in the 2 year extension.


----------



## kimber (Dec 19, 2019)

I was just going to post the same as ericr, I have not heard of any issues with the rapidtrak hydro's having issues but I would also have the dealer look at it before your warranty expires, ST100A makes complete sense so better safe than sorry and Town makes an excellent suggestion with air in system or low oil, hopefully it's something simple! 
i'm curious to hear what they find, please keep us posted and best of luck!


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Town,
That was a Hydro-Gear unit that Honda started using on their new HSS models.
The Hydro-Gear unit does not use a reservoir, so you wouldn't know if it was low in oil, so they added one to keep more oil in the unit and to be able to tell if it was getting low in oil.
One of the problems with running any Hydrostatic transmission low in oil is the immediate damage caused to the pump mechanism.
The damage will occur in less than 1 minute if they are ever run low in oil, if the oil would get to the point that it became air bound in the pump because of the way the pumps are made and how fast they spin. 
The oil is critical for the pump to operate and for it to become lubricated.
As of this time the Hydro-gear units that are used in various manufacturers snowblowers have only been being used for only a couple of years. They are still too new yet and have not been given enough time to be really tested in the field.
A Hydro on a snowblower is normally used in cold weather, helping to keep the operating temperatures down, so it would take a longer running time to get them hot enough to really see them having a problem, unlike a riding mower that is used in warmer weather and for longer periods of time when in use, they will get much hotter, and the problems will show up much quicker.
When the metal in the pumps and cylinders gets hot and expands the metal, there is oil leakage, hydraulic pressure leakage between the piston and rotating cylinder block walls of the pumps and motors inside the Hydro unit, and that is where you will get the "Slowing Down" problem when hot.
After they cool down they will work better until they get hot again, then the problem repeats itself until eventually they will not move at all, then it is time for an expensive overhaul/rebuild if the parts are available.
Most newer units the parts are not yet available, so replacement of the whole unit is necessary, and for the price of a rebuild with the labor, you are better off just replacing the entire unit, that way everything is new.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

EricR and Kimber,
These machines are still relatively new on the market yet even though they may have been out for a couple of years.
They did not get enough "Field Test Time" yet to see how well they are going to hold up.
Years ago Honda would test their equipment for a couple of thousand hours before they would certify and release something to the public. That was in the "Old Days" when Mr Soichiro Honda was alive, but unfortunately Honda does not do that anymore, and neither does anybody else.
Nowadays products are only tested about 100-300 hours if that before they are released to the public, most only tested for way less than 100 hours because of costs.
Who knows? In the next five to ten years we might hear about all of the problems people are/were having with certain products/Hydrostatic Transmissions that we are talking about today, only time will tell.
A lot of these new units haven't been out long enough yet with enough hours of usage on them to "Stand the Test Of Time" yet and gain a reputation, whether good or bad for the public to know how they are going to last.
The only thing we can do is "Hope for the Best" right now and hope they hold up.
That is probably why many people stick with their old "Time Tested" machines that have always been very reliable for years and they keep on maintaining them to keep them running because the don't trust anything new today.
I would get that machine back to the dealership before the warranty expires so they have it on record just in case anything happens.
Then if something goes wrong, he will have a better chance of warranty covering it, even if it is out of warranty. It could be a "Fluke" or who knows, you might see a lot more of them having the same problems and it just so happens we are just now starting to hear of some problems with them now.
But let's hope for the best and wish everyone good luck with them.


----------



## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

I used to have hydro-envy, but not any more. Now, I am glad I am running with a tried and true friction disc. That, I know how to replace, and it is very inexpensive. Yikes !


----------



## kimber (Dec 19, 2019)

The hydro pro came out 8 years ago and there's nothing on the internet about issues, with the amount of machines Ariens sells and 8 years on the market, I think we'd have an idea of problems. I even checked the BBB reports.
This was one reason for me purchasing mine.
After using hydro with tracks, I'll never go back to disc and wheels!


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

kimber said:


> The hydro pro came out 8 years ago and there's nothing on the internet about issues, with the amount of machines Ariens sells and 8 years on the market, I think we'd have an idea of problems. I even checked the BBB reports.
> This was one reason for me purchasing mine.
> After using hydro with tracks, I'll never go back to disc and wheels!


Is that 8 years with the same make/model of hydro trans?


----------



## kimber (Dec 19, 2019)

Town said:


> Is that 8 years with the same make/model of hydro trans?


I'm not 100% sure but my guess would be yes, I haven't seen anything about them changing it on the pro series or having any issues that would give reason to but you know they all change things without telling us!
If it were my machine, I'd get it to the dealer asap before warranty runs out.


----------



## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

RIT333 said:


> I used to have hydro-envy, but not any more. Now, I am glad I am running with a tried and true friction disc. That, I know how to replace, and it is very inexpensive. Yikes !


I can see that sentiment when facing issues with new tech. Any new technology has some growing pains. As consumers, we shy away from the first model year of new tech and keep our fingers crossed. Leading companies have a rigid qualification processes that hopefully address issues before they hit customers. I like new technology, since it adds capability. 

An example of this is with the fuel injected LCT engines. People are replacing boards and having issues. I don't know their failure rates, which would be needed to make a call on whether they introduced too early. But they'll get it figured out and end up with more responsive, more fuel efficient engines. I assume B&S is working on fuel injection as well.

But back to the Ariens hydro trannies. There is no evidence that they are unreliable after thousands of units in the field over close to a decade of time (like Kimber points out in a later post). The carrot is that there's nothing quite like running a tracked hydro machine into a deep plow berm, where you just stand there and modulate the hydro lever. You're never stuck wishing you had another gear setting. If you tried one, your hydro envy would infect you :smile2:!!


----------



## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

This thread seems similar..

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens-snowblowers/35361-hydro-drive-acting-funny.html

Based on the users posts they ended up trading in the unit for a Honda, so I'm not sure what the problem ended up being. You could try messaging them and see if they are still around / if they got an answer. If you find out the issue be sure to update so we can all learn!


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Sadly for me, I haven't gotten to use any hydro-driven equipment yet. But for tractors, if they start getting hydro slowdowns, one suggestion I've seen is to at least check, and ideally change, the hydro fluid. I don't know if that's feasible with these units, but it can't hurt to be aware of. 

I would definitely have the dealer look at it, if it's still under warranty. Even a proven and well-tested product can still have failures. If it's under warranty, I'd really want to avoid that possible repair bill landing at my doorstep. 

It's nice having feedback from folks with plenty of hands-on experience, like ST1100A.


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

2muchsnow said:


> This thread seems similar..
> 
> https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens-snowblowers/35361-hydro-drive-acting-funny.html
> 
> Based on the users posts they ended up trading in the unit for a Honda, so I'm not sure what the problem ended up being. You could try messaging them and see if they are still around / if they got an answer. If you find out the issue be sure to update so we can all learn!


I looked at the 24 posts by the author @Laundryboy, his problem seems to be the same as @crstrode but reverse is even worse. Appears he traded the Ariens on a Honda 1336 hybrid in the fall of 2015 since there was no resolution for the Ariens. He said the Ariens dealer could not find a problem with his Ariens hydro machine. The last post by Laundryboy was in Feb 2017.

There was a question asked in 2015 as to which manufacturer made the transmission. The answer came back as Hydro-Gear. The model was not mentioned, but the current Hydro-Gear website shows the RT-310 as the commercial and residential unit for snowblowers and the like. So it sounds like Hydro-Gear has made the hydro transmission for Ariens from at least 2013 to 2020 so 8 years as @kimber said.


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Just to confirm the Ariens Hydro Pro transmission is the Hydro-Gear RT-310 and was introduced in the 2013 model year (Ariens built machines in fall of 2012), here is an article: https://www.snowmagazineonline.com/article/gci-112712-ariens-hydro-pro/


----------



## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

@crstrode

The Hydro-Gear RT-310 trans used in Ariens snowblowers has brochure and service manual downloads available through this link: https://www.hydro-gear.com/rt310/ The service manual gives a lot of information on how to service the transmission including filling with oil (SAE 0W-40 probably synthetic) to the correct level and purging air from the transmission while the trans is in place in the machine. The trans can be completely torn apart and re-built with non-specialised tools (there is a list of tools and sockets). The belt driven pulley has a fan attached for cooling so a slipping belt would be a cooling and power issue. 

So it appears this trans is user serviceable which is not so scary after all. 

Good luck.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

That is a Light Duty transmission like you would see in a walk behind lawn mower, but a little bit different.
The book is designed for the Home-owner, being very simplified so that is good. It is not a technical book, they do not show technical measurements, they kept it simple.
You can see the pistons and drive blocks that the pistons sit in, and that is the parts that wear out the most.
The pistons no longer have a tight fit in the cylinder blocks and that is where the oil pressure/hydraulic pressure drops, causing the "Slowing Down" of speed.
You can buy them as an assembly instead of individual pieces, which you should do, and they are expensive. The "Motor Block" assembly, "Pump Block" assembly, and "Center Section" assembly are the parts that wear the quickest, and each one is not cheap. Normally they should all be replaced when doing a rebuild.
If you ever run one of them low in oil or use the wrong oil you will damage them very quickly.
Getting parts for them can be tricky sometimes, and for the costs of the parts and labor most times you are better off replacing the whole transmission assembly because the parts alone might be more than the trans assembly itself.
I have repaired and replaced too many Hydro-Gear transmission assembly's to count, they are not built very strong with not so good quality parts.
Personally I would rather stay away from anything that has a "Hydro-Gear" power transmission assembly in it, just because of the transmission. If I could replace the transmission with another brand, I would.


----------



## kimber (Dec 19, 2019)

The Hydro-Gear RT-310 is a commercial transmission, not a residential and is listed as so on the website, it powers the Rapidtrak Pro 36 which weighs 356lbs., considerably more than a walk behind mower. Economically it makes no sense to use an inferior transmission on their commercial grade machines, their profits and reputation would both suffer, also after 8 years of using the RT-310, I've only seen 2 potential issues posted to the forum and virtually none online so I feel confident with the unit, Ariens sold over 160,000 machines last year and if it was a problem, I think it would be evident.


----------



## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

...they make walk behind mowers with hydro trans ?? ......why ?


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I've never used a walk behind with a hydro, I think Honda made some? 

But I have used Toro's Personal Pace system, which is also variable speed. It's pretty nice, as you can slow down for thicker grass, etc. 

I don't know how the hydro systems controlled their speed, maybe a lever? PP is pretty intuitive, at least, the more you push the faster you go, and you can just pull it backwards.


----------



## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Honda mowers? It's hard to find non hydro in the upper end models - the 3 speed geared drive has pretty much vanished . . . Speed is controlled with the same lever that would have shifted geares, just no detents, and the same cluttch bail on the handlebars for go/no-go.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Honda has made the hydro drive mower for over 25 years now. They work great with the variable speed just by the amount you squeeze the drive lever.
They are by far better than the friction drive units like on a Snapper and all the manual multi speed mowers.
I have a couple of Honda Harmony Hydro machines and only ever wore out 1 transmission in over 25 years.
The transmission was made by Honda, that is why it lasted so long for the extreme severe use it gets, so I replaced it and it has been working fine for years now.
At the time when I got the mower brand new, it was more of the bottom line mower then, that was when Honda made some really good top notch machines with drive shafts, no belts and they were built heavy duty.
Now today the Harmony Hydro is the top of the line model, they stopped making all the good machines after Honda went the Big Box Store route.
Back then the plastic Xenoy deck was the cheaper model, then they had the cast aluminum or heavy gauge steel decks with ball bearing wheels, now the plastic deck models are the top of the line models.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

kimber said:


> The Hydro-Gear RT-310 is a commercial transmission, not a residential and is listed as so on the website, it powers the Rapidtrak Pro 36 which weighs 356lbs., considerably more than a walk behind mower. Economically it makes no sense to use an inferior transmission on their commercial grade machines, their profits and reputation would both suffer, also after 8 years of using the RT-310, I've only seen 2 potential issues posted to the forum and virtually none online so I feel confident with the unit, Ariens sold over 160,000 machines last year and if it was a problem, I think it would be evident.


 Hi Kimber,
That transmission is considered light duty. There are many walk behind mowers in the 500 pound range.
The internal parts like the pumps, center sections, and wheel motors are the same, the outer case or chassis are different.
When you start getting into machines that weigh in the neighborhood of 500 to 800 pounds, they start going to the medium duty set-up, and the larger machines whose weights are upwards of 1000 pounds start going to the heavy duty units.
You wouldn't fit the larger units in a normal snowblower chassis unless it was a big one with a 48 to 60 inch auger with a large chassis.
Then you figure the cost of the transmission unit would be as much as 2 complete snowblower units the average consumer/home-owner would purchase.
We had some with the slowing problems that we put a straight SAE 40 or 60 weight oil in to get the customer going through the rest of the season till they could take the down-time to have them repaired.
Most of them use 20w50 oil, synthetic. That oil is made from 20 weight base stocks with viscosity index improvers for the high temps and to give them the 50 ratings.
Heat is the big problem with a hydrostatic unit, when the metal gets hot and expands you have hydraulic leakage between the pump pistons and cylinders causing a loss of fluid pressure, and the oil thins out. After they cool down, they will operate better again until they get hot, that is why you hear about it with equipment used in warmer weather.
With a snowblower used in cold weather it helps to keep the transmissions cooler and most of the time the blower is not used long enough to get it that hot to notice the problem right away, so it may take years to notice the problems, and by then they will be way out of warranty and the consumer will think the machine is just old and worn out.
Some of the machines like the Ariens and Cub Cadets, and now Honda are using the H.G. and are getting around 8 years of usage out of them now, but it is hard to say how much hours per year they are getting to really be able to tell how they are holding up. It is about this time that you are going to start hearing about some problems with them with the operating hours and age of them.
Some may never experience a problem and others will. We have repaired many mower units with 100 operating hours more or less, and you will notice the problems quicker with them because of the higher temperatures and operating hours they are used for in the operating season.
So we will have to keep an eye out for them and let the public know about any issues with them on this site. Like I mentioned before, they are new in their usage yet with not a lot of operating hours like a mower would have.
Let's hope for the best with everything and the people who have them. Once a person has and uses a Hydro drive machine, they most likely will never go back to a standard disc drive again because of the ease of operation and the non down-time with them over replacing friction drive discs, but if the Hydro unit does fail and needs repair or replacement, that can be a different story.


----------



## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I just recently saw that Honda’s HRX premium model walk behind has a hydro trans. Sounds kinda wild for a walk behind mower. Expensive too, but does it have reverse I wonder? Probably not. Hydros are great for keeping a constant speed, better then CVTs like the personal pace stuff. Though I do really like toros personal pace system. 

The Ariens hydrogear unit is a much lighter duty trans compared to Honda’s HSS (in terms of pound feet of torque) which is why it uses a gear reduction box. But with the autoturn the axle isn’t solid which keeps maneuverability excellent. 
@ST1100A you are pretty hard on hydro-gear, what’s your opinion of tufftorq. It seems to me that the biggest issue with these brands are the low tier machines that get low price point components. They are built cheap, made to be unserviceable, and then cursed by consumers. The problem is the equipment manufacturer that dictates to the hydro manufacturer What they want in there machine. 

I have a John Deere lawn tractor with a tufftorq t40 it has 200 hours on it when I bought it. I used it for 1 season before changing the oil from what I hear is 10w-30 from the factory to a highly recommended 15w50 Castrol synthetic. The oil change definitely Improved Speed consistency after an hour of use in the middle of summer. Heat is definitely the enemy here. I feel The little fan they put on these units are quite inadequate.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Hi Drmerdp. The HRX is now the new Harmony model with the little lever on the back for mulch and discharge, a nice feature.
We have a lot of troubles with the Hydro-Gear, but a lot of them are serviceable, and parts were not all that bad compared to others like Vickers, Eaton, Sundstram to name a few.
We are hoping if Hydro-Gear see's a lot of the complaints they will make some improvements in quality but that could take years, it is the cheaper metal quality used in manufacturing that is the problem.
Honda had a problem with Tuff-Torq back in the early 90's and stopped using them, I saw a lot of problems with Tuff-Torq used on John Deere equipment, and some Simplicity's.
Temperature and oil is a big thing with any Hydro unit. The heavier oil like the 15w50 helped them a lot because it stayed more consistent with the heat generated from them.
The little fans where another thing to keep an eye on to make sure they didn't get broken, and to keep the cooling fins clean on lawn equipment. Snow equipment usually didn't need a fan because they were operated in much cooler temperatures, and they were not subjected to the debris that would clog cooling fins like lawn equipment is.
We had our share of Tuff-Torq problems and replaced the units. We see a lot more Hydro-Gear units, they are used on more equipment that we service and most are serviceable.
Like you mentioned, they are a lower priced unit the manufacturer uses to keep the price down for the consumer.
One transmission to stay away from are those General Transmission units with the plastic case and gears. Most of those are used in riding equipment and push mowers. Toro was using them on some equipment.
In today's world people want perfection and things that are built for eternity but they aren't going to find that anymore, at least not without a high price, and we have to deal with the irate customer every day about that. 
We deal with a lot of "Old Timers" who expect the best from their product, especially if it has an American name on it, and they know their old Honda's used to be made in America with American made parts and materials. We come from a former big steel industry town that lost its steel making plant due to foreign imports lower prices, and the loss of 30,000 jobs at one company alone, there were a couple of other companies that closed their doors nearby that were also major steel product producers.
These were the kind of people who used a 30-50 year old $15,000 Gravely Tractor to cut a 1 acre yard and remove the snow in their driveway with, and they still have their old "Bullet Proof" Gravely's and old John Deere's.
Bethlehem Steel was known for the big steel beams used in bridge making and large buildings that were built to last for eternity, plus armor plating and steel used for ship building during the war times to give you an idea of the people we deal with.


----------



## ericr (Nov 1, 2019)

Another datapoint on the Hydro-Gear RT-310 transmission. On the Ariens parts website it costs $329.95 (Product Code: 04438900), which is about 10% of the price of a hydro pro model machine. That does not seem too out of line to me, especially when you google it and find significantly higher prices through other sources.

Regarding output torque comparisons to what Honda has, a direct comparison might not be meaningful. From an engineering perspective that would need to take into account any gear reduction on the output, relative weight of the machines and what mean-time-before-failure they may have designed for statistically.

I thought I heard that the Honda's had a separate hydro drive for each track, in order to be controlled separately from each of the trigger releases. I do like the way the Honda design has the engine doing all the work when turning (tracks fighting each other).


----------



## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

I been using 20/50 Trop Artic in hydros.. seems to buy some extra time before they act up when warm.
Eventually it gets beat down as well and is no longer a 50 weight when warm.. but it is not bad for a multi grade oil.. 'Shield' is another name it's sold under.
These are for mower applications however..but it's not bad stuff come August and the hydros are covered with grass clippings 


Sent from my LM-Q710.FG using Tapatalk


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Ericr, it is the same drive, it just unlocks one drive shaft or the other, that is where it has a weak point where it unlocks and locks back in.
That set-up does not use a gear reduction like the older model HS.
The specs were taken from the hydraulic motor output not any reduction output.


----------



## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

drmerdp said:


> I just recently saw that Honda’s HRX premium model walk behind has a hydro trans. Sounds kinda wild for a walk behind mower. Expensive too, but does it have reverse I wonder? Probably not. Hydros are great for keeping a constant speed, better then CVTs like the personal pace stuff. Though I do really like toros personal pace system.
> 
> The Ariens hydrogear unit is a much lighter duty trans compared to Honda’s HSS (in terms of pound feet of torque) which is why it uses a gear reduction box. But with the autoturn the axle isn’t solid which keeps maneuverability excellent.
> 
> ...


Drmerdp, no they do not have reverse, just variable forward speeds. Just release the drive cable to disengage the drive and pull it backwards.


----------

