# Stalls when wet



## spacekowboy

Hi, I've had this problem year after year and would love to solve it. My 8.5 B&S will start fine but once I start working and snow starts blowing back onto the engine, it will stall. I've made a few makeshift moisture shields, choke washer, replaced the gas cap without any success. I know this model has this problem from reading some other posts around the web. If there is no wind, and just a few inched to blow, it runs like a champ. Any help on this would be appreciated.


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## Blue Hill

Welcome to SBF! That must be so frustrating. Does it start right back up again after it quits? Does it sputter for a while before it quits, or does it just stop?


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## spacekowboy

Sputters a bit - I can keep it going if I turn on choke. And it will start back up!

Thanks


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## WestminsterFJR

are you able to reproduce the problem by misting water (ex: with a spray bottle) towards the carb?


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## motorhead64

If you can start back up with choke, you could be experiencing "carburetor icing." Moisture condenses and freezes in your carburetor throat. The "cold" condition requires a richer mixture to run effectively, thus the need for choke. You've got to keep the snow away from your carburetor with a baffle of some sort. Run her on a warm day with no snow and see if it still happens. That will eliminate weather as the cause. Good luck. MH


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## Mr Fixit

I've had this issue with two of my three blowers. I solved all of them by putting a cotton cloth in front of the intake for the cooling air opening around the recoil start. Hang it by four 3" copper wire, black as the engine. I put a hole in the cloth for the pull rope. I have not had this issue with my last B S engine. I'm forced to blow all my snow to the East, so when the wind is wrong I ice up my carb. Once I retired I just waited till the wind died.
You just give the cloth a good pull and the snow falls off so you resume ample air to cool your engine. Not hurt the engine yet.
This is a common problem in this area of high winds.


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## spacekowboy

I will try the water misting test. Even on a cold day if I start it up and let it run it idles fine. Also the muffler is very close to the carb

Thanks


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## scipper77

I have the briggs 8.5 as well and I have had problems as well. Here is a link to a thread that I am guessing you have already seen. Follow the link in post #15.
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/snowblower-repairs-maintenance-forum/11162-will-212cc-predator-have-enough-power-swap.html


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## WestminsterFJR

scipper77 said:


> I have the briggs 8.5 as well and I have had problems as well. Here is a link to a thread that I am guessing you have already seen. Follow the link in post #15.
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ll-212cc-predator-have-enough-power-swap.html


Following that thread into another showed one case where the problem was due to a faulty ground on the safety key. Moisture from the snow caused the safety key to ground out.


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## scipper77

WestminsterFJR said:


> Following that thread into another showed one case where the problem was due to a faulty ground on the safety key. Moisture from the snow caused the safety key to ground out.


If that thread showed me anything it is that the Briggs 8.5 is very problematic. I only wish I had a clear idea what the problems really are. Tell me what is wrong and I can fix it.


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## WestminsterFJR

scipper77 said:


> If that thread showed me anything it is that the Briggs 8.5 is very problematic. I only wish I had a clear idea what the problems really are. Tell me what is wrong and I can fix it.


Very true. Resolution to the problem ranged from a coil replacement, faulty ground, to a complete engine replacement in one case.


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## spacekowboy

As you can see by the attached pics, I made a few mods with no success


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## scipper77

I get annoyed just looking at a picture of that motor. That is the first motor that I ever just wanted to wave the white flag on. If you follow the link in my thread one suggestion that I never tried was insulating the fuel line to prevent vapor lock. Between that and spraying water at the carb to listen for a change in pitch I think you might have your best chance for a solution.

I also had a restricted fuel line on mine. It empty the carb faster than it could refill it. An hour later it would restart like there was never a problem.


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## 69ariens

That happen to me as well, turnd out to be tne spark plug gap was wrong.


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## spacekowboy

I swapped out the spark plug, and it started on first pull! That was a first. Not enough snow to give real test. I will report back next storm or after water spray test. - Thanks for all replies


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## scipper77

spacekowboy said:


> I swapped out the spark plug, and it started on first pull! That was a first. Not enough snow to give real test. I will report back next storm or after water spray test. - Thanks for all replies


For your sake I hope the solution is this simple. (Now for the pessimism)

In both my research and in my personal experience I have found whatever goes wrong with this motor happens after several minutes of running under a consistent load. If you can run it like that you will know if you are good to go.


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## spacekowboy

Yesterday we got about 7-8 inches of wet snow. I fired up the craftsman and got the usual results. About 15 -20 feet of blowing and it stalled. I let it sit for a few min. Started it back up did another 15 feet. Stalled. I don't think it is a moisture thing because the snow had stopped and there was very little blow back. It seems like it gets choked for fuel. I've read about vapor lock since the fuel line is very close to the muffler. Any thoughts? More snow on the way!


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## scipper77

Well I have the same motor with the same problem. When I blew air through the fuel lines and carb needle/seat mech to "open them up" it seemed to solve the stalling for me. It still doesn't run right however.

I thing insulating the fuel line and spraying water at the carb to see if you have an air leak at the carb mounting point are the only easy steps left to try. I have given up on my motor but if you can get yours running properly you will be my hero.

Also, I had an excellent experience dealing with Briggs customer service when fixing a blown head gasket on mine. They sent me pages from there repair manuals with torque specs and tightening pattern and I even got them to send me a replacement head gasket for free. Maybe give them a try as I'm sure they are aware of this issue.


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## spacekowboy

Well after much snowblowing this last week here in PA. I've had much better results. I insulated the fuel line with some heat resistant tubing but I'm not sure if it did much because I did experience a stallout. What really improved it was keeping the gas tank full! As soon as the tank got low it would start sputtering. It must have to do with gas flow to the carb. So I'm much happier!


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## conwaylake

*Carb kit for Craftsman 8.5/27 536.881850/1*

Briggs & Stratton 590907 Carburetor (kit) 
Replaces 798918, 794588, 794197, 791955

I just installed this carb kit on my Snowthrower with B&S motor 15A114-0342-E1 . About $50 from Amazon. 

For last week's (11/26/2014) 10 inch of wet snow, it worked fine, but weather did not cooperate: It was dry and sunny, when I got it 2 days later; so it wasnt 'wet' enough to produce the oh-so familiar failure mode of stalling after about 1/2-1hour of heavy work, and will not start after 1/2 - 1 hour of 'rest'. 

Here are some details of the carb kit install: 

I marked up the pic to show which parts I used.

Hooked up the new yellow Governor spring for 3600 RPM, I think it was hole #4. 

The new carburetor has a shorter fuel line, but the hose provided (short 'L') did not seem to clamp tight-enough on the fuel-valve and carb fittings. So I cut a piece of the old hose, long enough so that it would not kink. I had no use for the double-curved fuel line. 
My machine already had a fuel valve installed, perhaps it was meant to support a fuel valve in a different location. 
Note the heat shield for the fuel line. Its split to ease the installation. 

The other major feature appears to be how the choke shaft and knob is designed. The shaft will protrude above the carb hood, supposedly to prevent water from getting to the carb. 

PS: Before I changed out the carb in October, I ran this motor for a long time, with the snow hood removed, and I sprayed water everywhere . Didn't affect a thing. Ambient temp was 55 F. 

I'll be looking closely for Spark / Coil / Vapor Lock / Carb Icing, if when this pig stalls out during a wet snow... 

Repair Clinic Video:


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## spacekowboy

Good luck, keep us posted. Haven't had any snow worth blowing here in S.E. PA yet. I did start mine up and it fired on the first pull! We'll see!


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## conwaylake

*looks more and more like carb icing*

*Conditions for stalling on craftsman 8HP/27" : *
Temp has to be cold enough, there has to be enough moisture in the air, either a wet snow, or a lot of dry snow blowing onto the engine, and the dumb gap in the plastic chute contributes, no doubt.
snow is dumped through the gap in the upper chute, right onto the motor. 

I've run it in 50 degF for an hour no problem (but of course, no snow!)

*I doubt that vapor lock is an issue:*
Would think higher ambient temp would help cause vapor lock. 
If vapor lock, then the carb and 4 inch fuel line should cool off within minutes, not take up to an hour to allow restart. 

On the other hand, ice built up inside the carb would take a long time to 'receed', and even when the ice is gone, the carb body will still be quite close to freezing temp. 
It is my understanding that the high-speed, low pressure, flow of intake air will lower the overall temp as part of the Venturi effect . (those who know better please correct me if I am off track). 

At 50 degF spraying water all around (snow hood off) did not affect running: directly into the intake (no effect AT ALL), sprayed heavily onto the ignition wiring (hi voltage and the cut-out). Tried to get onto the coil as best I could. 

So still possible that coil/spark plug has some cold/hot sensitivity, but again it ran fine on a 50 degF day. 

*Carb icing restricts flow of the mixture to the engine, ie the throttle passage is smaller!* This means only idle speed would run ,and any kind of applied load would not be met by increased throttle from the governor (engine has not separate throttle control), and the engine would die because it could not work against the extra load of the drive and/or auger (in my case the auger with snow would bog the engine down ). 

I'm gonna try to jam a temperature probe through the intake next time this happens. (Engine not running).


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## spacekowboy

Another update. Just got through the 2016 Northeast blizzard. The snow blower would run like a champ and then just stall like it ran out of gas. I'd have to wait 10-15 min and it would start back up and be fine for another 15min. I'm considering replacing the coil. Any other feedback would be appreciated.


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## conwaylake

*have you updated the carb or not ?*

I'm guessing that you have not yet installed carb kit 
*(mentioned elsewhere in this thread)** 

Available from Sears, Jacks Small Engines etc. 

You can replace the coil, but the failure mode indicates carburetor icing 

I have same engine and have finally run the motor in moist/snowy conditions,
motor has not stalled once. 


You can also isolate to carb icing by making the motor run just a bit hotter: 

Place Duct Tape (or a cloth, or cardboard) over the vent holes at the rewind starter. Leave one or two unblocked. 
You will not overheat the motor if running outdoors in the winter. 
In fact John Deere has published this procedure as a service bulletin.
The extra heat should keep the carb warmer, preventing icing inside the throttle body.

If this changes the operation in any way, ie allows the motor to run 10-30 minutes longer, then the issue is not the coil. 

*


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## bad69cat

I'd be surprised if it was the coil - but it's possible. I like the idea of blocking off the airflow and see how the heat changes things? I just looked back through the thread and you certainly have had a battle! Spraying the water when it was 55 out and that didn't kill it sure makes me think moisture is not the problem. The carb icing is starting to sound like the best theory at this point - although it was suspect from early on.... 

The only other thing might be that something is opening up as it heats up - like a gap in the intake area perhaps? 

Perplexing one for sure!


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## spacekowboy

Will doing the carb kit fix the icing problem?


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## conwaylake

Carb kit 'should' fix carb icing problem. 
Remember that even folks (like me) are 99% sure that carb icing is the issue, 
I cannot promise anything. 



> I am 100% sure that my machine runs a lot better since I installed it.


AND... when refitting the plastic snow shield, be sure that the top and bottom pieces fit into their slots, to keep a good air tight seal near the carburetor.


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## spacekowboy

Thanks for the info, I will post back any results good or bad. Also are there any instructions on the carb replacement or is it pretty straight forward


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## conwaylake

In #20 of THIS THREAD, I show a picture of the kit and indicate which pieces I used, and what I connected. Before you dismantle the carb, get a good photo of your existing governor linkages. 

Also in this thread is the post from another member about covering the recoil housing... 

Finally, I suggest that you re-read this thread from the beginning.


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## cargy2003

I can back up what conwaylake is saying. I also have the 8.5 hp Briggs Craftsman 536.881850, and installed the replacement carb from Amazon at the end of last season. We have had a fair bit of snow in Nova Scotia this year, and the machine has not stalled once - complete satisfaction. Do yourself a favour and just install the replacement carb - easy job - just follow conwaylake instructions shown earlier in thread. Carb kit comes with everything you need and takes about 1 hr to install. I also changed out the coil but I don't believe that was the issue.


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## bad69cat

HUH? That's interesting if it was truly what was going on - sounds like it is/was. I'm going to try and file this one in my memory banks because I have no doubt somebody will drag one in to me for repair and I would be chasing my tail too!! Thanks for the updates! Hope you don't have any more issues......


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## spacekowboy

Looks like I'll be doing the carb job in the near future. Also do you guys do anything special as far as fuel treatment? I usually burn off the remaining fuel once winter is over. Should I be using a stabilizer? or ethanol free fuel?

Thanks


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## bad69cat

always use ethanol free fuel when possible. It sucks in moisture and eats the rubber.....
I would just drain it down at the end of the season and forget all that stabilizer stuff. Save yourself some grief...


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## mmosberg

I am following this thread. I have a 2006 Husqvarna 8024STE with the same B&S engine and exactly the same symptoms and problems as the other posters. I have read everything I could find on how to fix it. I have done pretty much everything except for changing the carburetor. Some people claim to have renewed the carburetor withouth getting rid of the problems, while others claim that a new carburetor did fix the problem. I am being perplexed.......


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## conwaylake

*update: Carb kit has FIXED the problem*

Today was the perfect condition for carb icing.
35 degF just after a 6" wet snowfall. 

Machine ran for more than one hour non-stop. 
No faltering or stalling. 

And as owners of this type of snow blower know, the discharge chute
will dump a fair share of snow back onto the motor through the jointed section of the chute. 

If you have done the carb upgrade, and your motor stills 'stalls when wet', 
please post !!!!


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## scipper77

conwaylake said:


> Today was the perfect condition for carb icing.
> 35 degF just after a 6" wet snowfall.
> 
> Machine ran for more than one hour non-stop.
> No faltering or stalling.
> 
> And as owners of this type of snow blower know, the discharge chute
> will dump a fair share of snow back onto the motor through the jointed section of the chute.
> 
> If you have done the carb upgrade, and your motor stills 'stalls when wet',
> please post !!!!


Thank you for the update. If it wasn't my backup blower I would take action for sure. Right now I'm trying to decide between the carb upgrade or the bigger predator swap (I think it's 8 horse?) When my 8.5 briggs does run I feel that it boggs to easily. 

How is the power from your 8.5 after the carb swap? Briggs did lose a class action suit because they over rated many motors including this one so I know it's really 8 HP at best.


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## mmosberg

scipper77, I took the chance on buying a new carburetor for my 8,5 HP B&S engine. It turned out to become a completely new engine when it comes to behaviour. I haven`t noticed any power reduction. If you are interested you may want to read the thread I created: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/snowblower-repairs-maintenance-forum/87161-husqvarna-8024ste-fading-without-choke-running-lean.html


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## Mr Fixit

In my years of experience when a small engine is running and snow is sticking to it on top, you're likely to ice up. We run all Cat engines, tractors, small engines with a canvas heat housing around them. A small engine must also breathe warm DRY air. That's why they build a stove around the carburetor on a small winter engine. On your car they bring warm air from the stove around the manifold too. 
I'm repeating myself but put a cloth in the path of the air going into the flywheel grill for 15 minutes. You'll see how much snow collects on the cloth. Your engine warms up also. Looks don't matter here if your life is at risk. Remember a warm carburetor does NOT ice up! I saw a driver on a timber jack, with an 18 mile run, battle wolves after he froze his engine in 1969. I saw this lesson live! My Sears 5 HP Tecumseh didn't run five minutes without it on. It becomes worse as the temperature falls.


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## conwaylake

Congratulations and thanks for the detailed info on your other post.

You probably noticed the spacer between the carb and the motor.
The PLASTIC spacer, or at least, it is not made of metal and therefore does not conduct much engine heat. 

Yes for me, the motor runs smoother and quieter and has no loss of power. 
Does not bog down in a plow bank or End of Driveway.
Throws wet snow 10-15 ft, and dry snow 25+. As it did before the mod.
That flimsy plastic chute will probably hamper the throwing of wet snow.


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