# Any way to slow down drive on an old Toro 524?



## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

I re-powered my 80s(?) 524 with a Predator 6.5hp and I think it's just too quick now for deep snow, I have move forward in bites. I checked the tuning of the gearshift and it's fine, on 1 the transfer wheel is as close to the center as it will go. Can I change the pulley belt ratio? The chain and gear drivetrain between the transmission and axle seem to not have any room to tweak it, the drive gears are about as small as they'll go on those shafts. I'd need to add whole nother gear stage.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*The only way is to change out that gear. *


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

UNDERTAKER said:


> *The only way is to change out that gear. *


But that small spur gear is about as small as you can get for that shaft diameter. At best maybe its 15 tooth and I can lose 2 if I can get the right larger gear too. That's not enough of a reduction. Same with the chain sprocket, it's already very small.

EDIT: And the large gear is welded to the axle!


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*You Would Want A Bigger Chain Sprocket. But Good Luck Finding One To Fit That App.*


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

UNDERTAKER said:


> *You Would Want A Bigger Chain Sprocket. But Good Luck Finding One To Fit That App.*


No clearance for that because of the axle.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

You can get a smaller crank sheave. (pulley), but need a smaller belt as well, unless your idler has a lot od adjustment.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

nope not a single thing you can do


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

Oneacer said:


> You can get a smaller crank sheave. (pulley), but need a smaller belt as well, unless your idler has a lot od adjustment.


If there's room to go smaller, I haven't looked yet. If it's like the chain and gear, that answer would be no.


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

Changing the motor shouldn't have done anything to the blower speed.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

crazzywolfie said:


> nope not a single thing you can do


I see in your sig you did a 6.5hp swap, did you do the Predator repower? Is it faster too?


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

cpchriste said:


> Changing the motor shouldn't have done anything to the blower speed.


The full throttle RPM is higher than the original, at least that's what I recall from when I did it 3 years ago.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

gellfex said:


> I see in your sig you did a 6.5hp swap, did you do the Predator repower? Is it faster too?


that is my ariens. it didn't make any difference other than a bit more power for the auger. the toro has its stock 5hp engine and is too fast. i even pulled the cover and adjusted all the shifters to make sure it would move as slow as possible and it is still too fast in heavy snow


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Here is a small one ....


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

If you cannot slow it by these mods, you will just have to clutch it on full buckets and take smaller bites on open runs.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i don't know about his but the 5hp on mine has a 1" crankshaft. i really don't see any way to really slow them down. they even have tiny 13" tires. they are just poorly designed in this aspect.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

crazzywolfie said:


> i don't know about his but the 5hp on mine has a 1" crankshaft. i really don't see any way to really slow them down. they even have tiny 13" tires. they are just poorly designed in this aspect.


Thanks, I guess it's good to know that I'm not alone! I just don't get why they would make it too fast on the lowest gear.


Oneacer said:


> If you cannot slow it by these mods, you will just have to clutch it on full buckets and take smaller bites on open runs.


Obviously that's what I'm doing now, but I was hoping to improve the situation somehow.


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## Jatoxico (Jan 6, 2018)

gellfex said:


> The full throttle RPM is higher than the original, at least that's what I recall from when I did it 3 years ago.


Guess you throttle it down a tad as needed. I know in the tough stuff you want the best of both worlds but backing off a smidge on throttle towards the rpm the machine was spec'ed out to might work out.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i also forgot but the stock pulley is 1 piece so even if you could get a smaller pulley you would have to also replace the other. the drive pulley is smaller than the auger pulley. not sure if you could get a smaller puller to replace it or not.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

crazzywolfie said:


> i also forgot but the stock pulley is 1 piece so even if you could get a smaller pulley you would have to also replace the other. the drive pulley is smaller than the auger pulley. not sure if you could get a smaller puller to replace it or not.


Hmm, I have an engine lathe and could probably cut down the diameter of the 1 sheave, but it's already small enough that might result in not enough friction to engage and it'll slip. Maybe the thing to do would be to get another one to experiment on. Can those be had?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

or could do a predator swap to also get a smaller crankshaft and get a smaller pulley but then again how attached to the machine are you? might almost be better off to get another machine i used the toro for a bit today before saying screw it and then fixing the other snowblower enough to use since they other one can actually throw farther and go slower if needed. i got my toro for free and am not really into it much other than some time at this point. i have considered letting the one i have go since don't like it as much as i thought i would but i did enjoy bringing it back to life.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

crazzywolfie said:


> or could do a predator swap to also get a smaller crankshaft and get a smaller pulley but then again how attached to the machine are you? might almost be better off to get another machine i used the toro for a bit today before saying screw it and then fixing the other snowblower enough to use since they other one can actually throw farther and go slower if needed. i got my toro for free and am not really into it much other than some time at this point. i have considered letting the one i have go since don't like it as much as i thought i would but i did enjoy bringing it back to life.


It's already a Predator, but good point that If I got or made a new sheave I could lose the bushing. I would need to get under that housing and take some measurements. 

Where I am next to NYC we only usually get a couple of snow events a year, if that. Had none in the 2 winters after I repowered it! So investing in a new blower makes less sense than doing what I can with this one. Everyone says the old heavy ones are best anyway.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i get a couple free or very cheap snowblowers every year so each year so it is not usually hard to upgrade. i am just waiting till the next nice day to see about swapping the larger engine onto my mtd so it can run the 30" bucket even tho it will likely only be running a 26" bucket once i am done fixing the bucket.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

Well, a little research says that this sheave is pretty much already at minimum diameter for that size V belt. Not surprising.


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## Marty013 (Mar 14, 2014)

what if instead of slowing the machine down.. youd speed up the impeller with a bigger pulley on the crank? it would up the throughput of your machine.. better matching the ground speed it has now... and throw further... say from a quarter inch bigger on the pulley to half inch bigger..


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

I guess there are two ways to skin a cat
Speaking of two. Is that two friction plates?
One for forward and one for reverse? Looks like the drive wheel cannot cross to the other side for reverse.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

Tony-chicago said:


> I guess there are two ways to skin a cat
> Speaking of two. Is that two friction wheels
> One for forward and one for reverse? Looks like the drive wheel cannot cross to the other side for reversw.


Yes, 2 plates on the shaft and 1 rubber wheel that goes back and forth between them. Do others go to the other side of one plate?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

gellfex said:


> Yes, 2 plates on the shaft and 1 rubber wheel that goes back and forth between them. Do others go to the other side of one plate?


yup. on most other machines there is only 1 plate


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Crazzy,

Get some prep and paint on that unit ......


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

crazzywolfie said:


> yup. on most other machines there is only 1 plate


Interesting. I bet mine is easier to rock back and forth, I'm just slamming the wheel between the 2 plates not having to shift it over.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

ya but you can usually make these things move very slow compared to the toro. i have never really needed to rock a machine.


Oneacer said:


> Crazzy,
> 
> Get some prep and paint on that unit ......


its not worth it plus that machine is no longer in my possession. can't keep them all lol.


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## RickCoMatic (Dec 29, 2020)

Sodium nitrate secretly added to its fuel ought to slow its drive, ... its said.
Sodium nitrate (NaNO3).
Saltpeter.
Ask any recruit in basic training.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

RickCoMatic said:


> Sodium nitrate secretly added to its fuel ought to slow its drive


i doubt that would slow a toro if this didn't. as far as i can tell this thing doesn't even burn a drop of oil.


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## Darryl G (Feb 5, 2017)

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but there's always the option of engaging and disengaging the drive intermittently so that you're not overfeeding it. Not an ideal solution but it works.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Darryl G said:


> but there's always the option of engaging and disengaging the drive intermittently so that you're not overfeeding it


not really ideal to do. these things are not like the average machine. i know i hate how it feels when you pull it out of gear while it is pushing a load. you have to pull harder than i would like to get it out of gear when under load. it definitely makes me appreciate how nicely other machines work.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@Darryl,

Yes, clutching it was mentioned.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

Turn the throttle down.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

IndyColtFan420 said:


> Turn the throttle down.


Yes, of course why didn't I think about that! Oh yeah, because I still want to be able to throw snow as far as I can, because it's a snowblower.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

gellfex said:


> Yes, of course why didn't I think about that! Oh yeah, because I still want to be able to throw snow as far as I can, because it's a snowblower.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

Did you put your pully on correctly? It has 2 sizes on it.

Amazon has some if you wanted to try a different one. I had to buy a crankshaft adaptor for my pully. Old engine was a 1" crankshaft, new engine is a 3/4" crankshaft. I dropped a 7.5 hp electric start Predator clone in my 524 2 days ago and it doesn't go too fast.
(I'm not finished building it yet)


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

IndyColtFan420 said:


> Did you put your pully on correctly? It has 2 sizes on it.


Hmm, I'd have to take off the cover and check. I think so. I had to get a sleeve for mine too. A bit of research indicated that these pulleys were already at the smallest usable diameter for the belt, but I should explore that more definitively. 

Nice blower! Looks very familiar, lol. I found ditching those tires for new Carlisles made a world of difference in my traction.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

gellfex said:


> I found ditching those tires for new Carlisles made a world of difference in my traction.


My rims were rusted to the machine. I destroyed them when I beat the hell out of them. I'm looking for new tires and rims now. I found some new rims with Carlisles tires already mounted, but they're 3/4 hub. My rims are 7/8 hub. They're not cheap either. Used ones on Ebay are $80 - $120 for original rusted rims with 7/8 hubs.

I didn't pay attention when I removed my pully. I put it back on with the smaller pully facing the front of the snowblower because that's where the engagement pulley is, and it needs to free spin when not engaged. I think that's how it goes. It seems to be working.


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## asavage (Dec 20, 2021)

On my 826 38150 (1985), the smaller diameter is mounted toward the engine (for the traction drive belt). I can't say whether this is mounted correctly, and I don't know if anyone's had it off and possibly mounted it reversed; I can only observe that that's they way mine's set up: slower ground speed, faster auger speed.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

asavage said:


> I can't say whether this is mounted correctly,


yours is mounted correctly. the picture indycoltfan posted is wrong.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

asavage said:


> On my 826 38150 (1985), the smaller diameter is mounted toward the engine (for the traction drive belt). I can't say whether this is mounted correctly, and I don't know if anyone's had it off and possibly mounted it reversed; I can only observe that that's they way mine's set up: slower ground speed, faster auger speed.


Well now I'm just curious. I'm going to swap my pully later today and see what difference I notice.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

IndyColtFan420 said:


> My rims were rusted to the machine. I destroyed them when I beat the hell out of them. I'm looking for new tires and rims now. I found some new rims with Carlisles tires already mounted, but they're 3/4 hub. My rims are 7/8 hub. They're not cheap either. Used ones on Ebay are $80 - $120 for original rusted rims with 7/8 hubs.


I got the tires with the wheels shipped for like $70. And of course I discovered that they were 3/4 after I received them. After having a hard time trying to get someone who could swap them on to the old rims, I just put them on my drill press and opened them up with a 7/8 twist drill. Worked great. Maybe you know someone who has those tools if you don't. 

I guess I need to eBay my old rims!


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

gellfex said:


> I got the tires with the wheels shipped for like $70. And of course I discovered that they were 3/4 after I received them. After having a hard time trying to get someone who could swap them on to the old rims, I just put them on my drill press and opened them up with a 7/8 twist drill. Worked great. Maybe you know someone who has those tools if you don't.
> 
> I guess I need to eBay my old rims!



That's a good idea. If that's the case I'm going to buy these. They are $20 each, and shipping is $40. $80 total for some new tires and rims. No returns on them, but if I hack them up with a drill bit I can't return them anyway. lol


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

IndyColtFan420 said:


> That's a good idea. If that's the case I'm going to buy these. They are $20 each, and shipping is $40. $80 total for some new tires and rims. No returns on them, but if I hack them up with a drill bit I can't return them anyway. lol


Good plan. Just don't try and drill them by hand, it'll make a mess of them and your wrists might be injured.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

gellfex said:


> Good plan. Just don't try and drill them by hand, it'll make a mess of them and your wrists might be injured.


I don't have a drill press so I'm thinking I'll take my angle grinder and shave down the shafts. It don't matter if they're perfectly round, as the rim doesn't spin on the shaft. The rims are fixed in place. As long as the axle shafts are solid, (not hollow) it should work.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

IndyColtFan420 said:


> I don't have a drill press so I'm thinking I'll take my angle grinder and shave down the shafts. It don't matter if they're perfectly round, as the rim doesn't spin on the shaft. The rims are fixed in place. As long as the axle shafts are solid, (not hollow) it should work.


Yikes! I wouldn't. Surely there's someone around who will do it for a 6 pack.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

gellfex said:


> Yikes! I wouldn't. Surely there's someone around who will do it for a 6 pack.


I do a lot of welding, cutting, and grinding. I'm a pro. I can do it, as long as the axles are solid.
Have you tried to swap your pully around yet? I'm getting ready to go swap mine to see what difference it makes. I'll let you know if it speeds it up, or slows it down.


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## asavage (Dec 20, 2021)

IndyColtFan420 said:


> I do a lot of welding, cutting, and grinding. I'm a pro.


While we all rely on our particular talents, when I read Gell's tale of enlarging the hub via twist drill and drill press, I winced. Twist drills make notoriously triangular holes: fine for cabinetry or bolting things together, not so good for parts that are supposed to fit well/be square/interface well. That's a job for a boring bar or reamer (or probably a handful of other methods), not a twist drill, even accounting for a drill press to maintain the perpendicular.

Well, if the only tool you have is a welder/grinder . . . that's what you use. It's not that the final product won't work, but for how long, and what are the desirable qualities you lose? Consider alternatives.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

OK. I swapped my pully and now when I put it in 1st gear it's so slow I almost have to push it to get it out of my way.....lol. 
3rd gear is a face paced walk. 
So in conclusion, the small pully goes towards the engine. (as crazzywolfie suggested)
The auger seems to be going slow, but it's still throwing snow about 20', and I still haven't done the impeller mod. 
I hope this helps. 
If and when you give up on it, ship me your tires and I'll buy them off you.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i have yet to come accross a snowblower that had the larger pulley powering the wheels. the large pulley is always on the auger and the drive pulley is as small as possible in most cases. they do as much with the pulley ratio as possible so they don't have to do as much reduction in the gears or chain drive.


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## gellfex (Oct 2, 2018)

IndyColtFan420 said:


> I do a lot of welding, cutting, and grinding. I'm a pro. I can do it, as long as the axles are solid.
> Have you tried to swap your pully around yet? I'm getting ready to go swap mine to see what difference it makes. I'll let you know if it speeds it up, or slows it down.


If you do a lot of metalwork how do not know someone with a drill press?


asavage said:


> While we all rely on our particular talents, when I read Gell's tale of enlarging the hub via twist drill and drill press, I winced. Twist drills make notoriously triangular holes: fine for cabinetry or bolting things together, not so good for parts that are supposed to fit well/be square/interface well. That's a job for a boring bar or reamer (or probably a handful of other methods), not a twist drill, even accounting for a drill press to maintain the perpendicular.


Big twist drills (AKA Silver and Deming) only make triangular holes in thin materials. A hole deeper than the diameter comes out nice and round. I considered buying a reamer, but it cost nearly as much as the damn wheels! I figured the worst that could happen was that I would either have to buy a reamer or take off the tires and put the wheels on the lathe and clean them up with a boring bar. As it happened, it was fine. I've made stuff from metal for a living for nearly 40 years. The 'fex' is for special effects.


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## IndyColtFan420 (11 mo ago)

gellfex said:


> If you do a lot of metalwork how do not know someone with a drill press?
> 
> Big twist drills (AKA Silver and Deming) only make triangular holes in thin materials. A hole deeper than the diameter comes out nice and round. I considered buying a reamer, but it cost nearly as much as the damn wheels! I figured the worst that could happen was that I would either have to buy a reamer or take off the tires and put the wheels on the lathe and clean them up with a boring bar. As it happened, it was fine. I've made stuff from metal for a living for nearly 40 years. The 'fex' is for special effects.



I personally don't think it matters if you made a square hole.... lol. As long as the tire goes on and you can get the pin in the hole is all that matters. The rim is fixed to the shaft. It doesn't spin. It's not like we're driving these things down the highway going 65mph. They get used a few times a year. If these things made it 44 years, they'll make it another 20 years with a few holes that are not perfectly round. I'd actually do it your way but I don't have a drill press. I used my Dewalt to drill about 20 holes in my riding mower using a 1/2 drill bit, and as you said, it killed my wrists. I'm going to grind the hell out of these shafts with my angle grinder and be done with it. I bet this snowblower lives longer than I do....


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