# Little help Toro CCR 2000 Carb issue?



## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Hey guys, long time no talk. Good to be back. Here's my story.....



So my friend pulls this thing out of o the garbage. It's really not in bad shape. Started, ran. So he asks me to go over the machine. I clean it up, make it look all pretty. I take off the carb, and the bowl is the worst I've ever seen. CHUNKS of rust and debris in there.


So I tell him, we're going to get a new carb. I order one of those $20 carbs off Amazon. Yeah, I know, but I've used them before with no problem, on various motors. I got one, wouldn't start, so I ordered another from another vendor. Returned the first. 



The engine fires right up with some "motivation"from starter fluid, but once I shut it off, it won't start again. When it starts on starter fluid, it runs really nice, no problems. It will run as long as I let it. But after I shut it down it won't start again. Good gas flow, move the choke, checked all the gaskets. *** is going on with this thing?


It's become personal between me and this machine. Please help! I'm at wits end, it's me or this machine, and I'm not going to lose.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

will it start if you use the primer? the primer should do the same job as spraying starter fluid. some engines almost seem like they need a little prime to start back up even when warm.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Rmove the spark plug and toss it, pour a few drops of oil in the compression chamber to lubricate the piston rings, Clean the fuel tank, replace the fuel tubing, add a big cloth fuel filter, change the primer bulb and the spark plug.


25 to one fuel, splash of seafoam in the tank, splash of Heet alcohol in the tank and then that pup is going to really bark and claw its way into the snow pile.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

crazzywolfie said:


> will it start if you use the primer? the primer should do the same job as spraying starter fluid. some engines almost seem like they need a little prime to start back up even when warm.


The primer seems useless. In fact, I even went to the store and got an Original Toro in place of the aftermarket one that came with the carb, just to make sure. And still nothing.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

leonz said:


> Rmove the spark plug and toss it, pour a few drops of oil in the compression chamber to lubricate the piston rings, Clean the fuel tank, replace the fuel tubing, add a big cloth fuel filter, change the primer bulb and the spark plug.
> 
> 
> 25 to one fuel, splash of seafoam in the tank, splash of Heet alcohol in the tank and then that pup is going to really bark and claw its way into the snow pile.



Remove and toss spark plug- Done


Oil in chamber- Done


Clean fuel tank- Done


Replace fuel lines- Done


New fuel filter- Done


Primer bowl- Done


Plug- Done


All this was done before I tried to start it again. THIS IS FRUSTRATING! There's one adjustment screw on the carb, I'm assuming that's a high speed adjustment.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

leonz said:


> Rmove the spark plug and toss it, pour a few drops of oil in the compression chamber to lubricate the piston rings, Clean the fuel tank, replace the fuel tubing, add a big cloth fuel filter, change the primer bulb and the spark plug.
> 
> 
> 25 to one fuel, splash of seafoam in the tank, splash of Heet alcohol in the tank and then that pup is going to really bark and claw its way into the snow pile.





Why 25:1? I thought it was 50:1 from what I read. Go heavy on the two stroke oil?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

if the primer is not working that may be part of your issue. have you tried priming it till gas pours on the ground? it usually shouldn't take more than 2-3 pumps to have it happen but sometimes does. it is one of the first things i do when i am working on a machine i am not familiar with. once gas it pouring on the ground you at least know it has made it up to the venturi


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

if u shoot starter fluid/brake or carb cleaner down its throat and it starts and runs fine even after prolonged use then its ur priming circuit thats fracked up. all it does is push air into carb to force fuel into the main jet and into the throttle plate area. 

easy to flood if over primed, hard to tell if not primed enough. if flooded keep choke off for more air to enter carb.
remove the front baffle on the carb so can can see down the carb and hit the primer button, u should see fuel in the carb after a few pushes of the primer bulb. theres a hole in the center of the bulb, cover/seal that up w/ur thumb when depressing it


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

I am always in fear of losing another engine from too thin an oil mix that is the only reason.
I lost a perfectly good stihl chainsaw using fifty to one oil mix.

I forgot to mention the primer hose tube :^0 sorry


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

What do you think about float adjustment? I looked at it, and it seemed level when held upside down. That's the way every carb I've done was supposed to be. Any reason that would be wrong. I'm seriously thinking float adjustment.


Comments? I replaced the primer bulb, twice. I've also replaced the rubber hose. It's an original OEM Toro bulb, with the hole in the middle, I cover the hole when I pump it, and it does not spill gas, which again could point to float adjustment. It cuts the flow to the bowl prematurely because the float is out of adjustment. Maybe tomorrow I'll tweak the float, a little higher to put more gas in the bowl before it cuts off. 



What do you guys think of that


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Sounds like low compression, scored piston & cylinder.... Engine will run on the highly explosive ether, but not enough compression to fire off fuel mix. And continuing to run it on ether (with no lube in it) will only make the situation worse. try compression test first. Or better to pull muffler to check for piston/ring damage...

GLuck, Jay


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

It starts on ether. I only give it a very small shot of ether to get it going. It runs fine after it starts, actually, it runs pretty good after it starts.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

have you considered trying to clean the old carb and toss it back on? you said it started and ran with the original carb and that you have already got 1 bad carb. i would almost wonder if the other 1 is bad in another way. i am almost certain that air pushed into the carb should be enough to move the gas around enough to make the float drop even to eventually cause gas to drip out. i don't think i have ever had a carb not drip fuel eventually when priming. something has got to be wrong with that


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

crazzywolfie said:


> have you considered trying to clean the old carb and toss it back on? you said it started and ran with the original carb and that you have already got 1 bad carb. i would almost wonder if the other 1 is bad in another way. i am almost certain that air pushed into the carb should be enough to move the gas around enough to make the float drop even to eventually cause gas to drip out. i don't think i have ever had a carb not drip fuel eventually when priming. something has got to be wrong with that



That's my next step, just to get the thing out of my garage. But it's a defeat. I'm going to try the float today, if I have time, if that doesn't do it, old carb, with new bowl.


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## SayItAintSnow (Dec 15, 2017)

Jsup,


Let's look at this logically....:icon_scratch:

Once started, it seems to run really good, so that tells us we're getting good spark, a good fuel flow, and at least adequate compression. (Though I agree with JayZ that it would be nice to know what kind of compression you are getting....). So there's a lot more that seems to be "right" with the machine than "wrong".

Spraying starter fluid into the carb is taking the place of the priming function. Apart from that, the machine runs fine. :thumbsup:

Something is preventing the primer circuit from working. I've owned a few of these little Toros and I know that if you get carried away with the primer bulb, pushing too many times, you can actually get that little cup attachment to the carb to fill up with gas. If you are pressing the primer that many times, and _*not*_ seeing the gas back up like that, the primer circuit is not working. 

Make sure the port where the primer tube connects to the carb is clear. Though it is only air that is supposed to go through there, sometimes a piece of rubber from old tubing can block the tube, and you can push that thing all day, and you won't prime the carb. It's also possible the new carb arrived with some sort of blockage there from the manufacturing process. I find when these cheap carbs work, it's a cause for celebration. But I have also had a few that were junk right out of the box. It's a pig in a poke as the "auld Scots" use to say :devil: 



Also, especially for 2-cycle engines, I like to use WD-40 or similar flammable lubricant as a starter fluid rather than ether. It won't fire up quite as readily, but it has the potential to do less damage to your rings while you're trying to diagnose starting issues.
.
.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

When I pull the carb to check the float, I'll also check the passage to the fuel bulb. What I did notice is that when the engine was running, the cheap, more flexible primer bulb, seems to pulsate while it was running. I found that odd. 



I just want this thing out of my garage, and this guy won't take it until it's running. If I have time today, I'll see what I can do. 


Updates later. I hate getting all full of gas. working on this stupid thing.
I had a two stroke 15HP outboard that had the same problem (I remembered this yesterday while driving) it was the float adjustment, it was a little to low (hung low in the bowl) so it shut down fuel feeding into the bowl too soon.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

OK, here's the deal. The OLD carb had silicone in a recessed ring around the hole for the throttle plate, I forgot the technical term for that. I started taking off the old gasket, and that's when I saw the silicone in the recess. Couldn't see it before, because the old gasket was on top of it. 

The aftermarket was open. See images attached.








So, I took some gasket sealant, because it was the first thing I grabbed, and filled in all the recess, I'll wait until tomorrow to try to start it.


I will mention that when I did it, the primer bulb suddenly came to life. I'm getting closer.


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## SayItAintSnow (Dec 15, 2017)

Jsup,


Ha....sounds like you're on to it.


Quality control for these $15- $20, made in China carbs is hit or miss. I've had some where the mounting holes weren't even drilled out....:icon_cussing_black:



I know what you mean though, about just wanting to get it fixed and out of your garage.
You were just trying to help a friend out, and figured that a replacement carb would solve a lot of potential problems, and therefore be a quick fix. I've been there......:facepalm_zpsdj194qh



You know what they say though:
*"No good deed goes unpunished!"* :devil:
.
.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Thanks, I SHOULD know something tomorrow, but every one is coming here for T-Giving. My wife may have some other plans for me tomorrow. 



I've used these carbs before, with surprisingly good luck.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

if it was easy, i could do it...... oh wait, i can.
if it worked w/out errors how would we learn.....to say "no, i dont know whats wrong w/your snowblower, oh, i hear my lovely wife calling, i got to go"


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

This is driving me absolutely NUTS! Still no luck. I changed out four carbs this week, not one problem, except this one. It's become personal between me and the machine. 



Now he primer is working, but I have fuel pouring out from the choke butterfly. I'm really fed up with this.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

does it start when gas comes out the butterfly?


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

crazzywolfie said:


> does it start when gas comes out the butterfly?


NO, it's flooded. I pulled the plug, as expected, it was wet. I have three machines to deliver today, then I have to clean up the shop, put all my tools back where they belong, then prepare for the next job. I may or may not have time for it today.

Also, the spring on the carb rod finally broke at the end, not unexpected as many times as I had it on and off. They can be brittle when old, no matter how careful. This is the second one I've ever broken. The spring is discontinued, and when I can find it, it's a $15 spring. So next thing is to order the spring, let the thing sit for a bit, and get some other, paying, work done. 

It's probably flooding due to float adjustment. IDK. 4 carb swaps this week, no problem. This one, just can't help but drive me nuts. The other thing too is that it's a favor, so not as interested in solving it, but I want this thing OUT!


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Well, I won. Finally. It starts on one pull, and runs great. 



The only think left is the governor carb spring. It was discontinued, so I had to scour the earth to find one, finally turned one up on ebay. 



I replace everything in the fuel system, but the gas tank. I went through step by step. Checked the gap on the plug, new fuel lines, new primer bulb, new primer bulb line, and new carb, again. Put it all back together, and it fired right up.


It was a bunch of little problems. The holes in the original carb that were blocked, On the new carb, I left them open. Didn't realize they were filled on the original, because it wasn't apparent until I started cleaning everything off the carb. 



The holes on the face of the throttle plate side of the carb, caused the primer bulb not to work.


The primer bulb line rubbed the starter rope, and developed a small hole. 



On the new carb, I made a gasket that covered them. With the new gasket, it's working fine.


I went from a J19LM to a RN8YC. I checked the gap. The 8YC is a hotter plug. 



I replaced all the fuel lines and filter (which I did prior to all this)


Magically it came to life. 



Toro-0
Me-1 



Thanks for all the input. I think it came down to those stupid holes in the carb. Had I realized it sooner, it wouldn't have been much of a problem.


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## paulm12 (May 22, 2015)

Good job, on to the next one.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Pickin' up a Lawn Machines tomorrow. The last one I did, I have to admit, was REALLY a POS. Very cheaply made. I had an MTD machine for 18 years and it worked fine. Paid $600, sold it for $300. Hope this guy went for the better MTD, because the low end MTD, was really low end.


And I am a big defender of MTD as a decent machine for the money, but not in the case of the really cheap ones. I think if you go for the 5HP 24Inch and up, they're OK, but the "light weight" ones, are horrible.


I told the customer to use it till it blows, then get a better one. 



Look at the alignment of these pulleys. (attached picture) Horrible. I showed him the picture and told him I didn't want to even want to touch it because it would cost more than the machine was worth.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

that is the way those machines are. i can see about getting pics of the setup on mine. that is how they put tension on the belt. when you engage the transmission i think it pulls it a bit straighter


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

crazzywolfie said:


> that is the way those machines are. i can see about getting pics of the setup on mine. that is how they put tension on the belt. when you engage the transmission i think it pulls it a bit straighter


Yes it is. Crappy design.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

jsup said:


> Thanks for all the input. I think it came down to those stupid holes in the carb. Had I realized it sooner, it wouldn't have been much of a problem.


lol. when having a carb issue - thats why i say by the third time cleaning it youll understand how to clean a carb, u cant ignore those small little holes.
some are well hidden and almost impossible to see and only if u know where to look, and then u will be forced to look for a thin enough wire in your stash to help u clean them thoroughly as carb clean is not enough on ts own.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

vinnycom said:


> lol. when having a carb issue - thats why i say by the third time cleaning it youll understand how to clean a carb, u cant ignore those small little holes.
> some are well hidden and almost impossible to see and only if u know where to look, and then u will be forced to look for a thin enough wire in your stash to help u clean them thoroughly as carb clean is not enough on ts own.



These holes were around the throttle plate oriface on the new carb. The carb came with three gaskets. Two with a small hole and one with a large hole. The one with the large hole appeared to go around the part of the carb where the holes were in a recessed portion of the carb housing. Picture attached. 



There's a spacer that goes on the carb, and a piece on the end of the carb, to keep garbage out I guess. 



Anyway, the way it looks is the two smaller holed gaskets go 

1. On the engine side of the carb spacer, 

2. on the choke side of the carb where the provision is to keep crap out. 



The one with the LARGER hole I ASSUMED went around the face of the carb you see in the pic. But NOOOOOOO. The smaller holed gasket went there. That was one of the big problems. 



See attached of the original carb. 



I'm not sure how you're supposed to know this without directions. I'm not good with guessing. 

Last part is the carb spring to the governor and I'm done with this thing. Should be tomorrow. At least now it's two pumps and a pull and it starts right up.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

u can start here by finding the carb matching closest to yours Outdoor Power Equipment Information

some pics from there


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## Dave9354 (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks Vinny com for posting that website! Great detailed pictures. Will be saving it for future reference!


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## Mark Henderson (Feb 17, 2020)

jsup said:


> These holes were around the throttle plate oriface on the new carb. The carb came with three gaskets. Two with a small hole and one with a large hole. The one with the large hole appeared to go around the part of the carb where the holes were in a recessed portion of the carb housing. Picture attached.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have purchased the same carb as you and I think I have the gaskets wrong. If I am interpreting your post correctly the smaller hole gaskets go on each side of the spacer and the larger hole gasket goes on the choke side under the spit cup. is this correct? The weird thing is the TORO parts viewer doesn't even have a gasket under the spit cup.


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