# Tecumseh Engine Replacement



## gsnod

I was offered (at no cost) a Toro PowerThrow 824XL today, because the machine stopped during a recent snowstorm....before it stopped, the owner heard a boom, and it stopped. I took the unit home, and can turn the crank about 3/4 of the way, and have no piston movement as seen through the spark plug hole. No holes in the block.

Needless to say, I expect that the engine is toast. The engine model is HMSK80, with a DOM of 6290. I assume this means the engine is from June 29, 2000?

I see several of these Tecumseh 8HP engines on Craigslist for approx. $100, and my preference is to repower with a Tecumseh. Other than finding the exact engine model, is it likely that another Tecumseh 8 HP engine will cross over easily? If not, any opinions on putting a Harbor Freight engine on the blower? 

Thanks very much!


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## scipper77

There are plenty of politics around here regarding the harbor freight motors. 

If you have no issues replacing am American motor with a Chinese motor that "borrows" a Honda design then the predator motors are absolutely fantastic. If you want to get into politics just search around for an american vs Chinese motors thread.


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## sscotsman

gsnod said:


> I
> Needless to say, I expect that the engine is toast. The engine model is HMSK80, with a DOM of 6290. I assume this means the engine is from June 29, 2000?


Does it actually say "DOM" on the tag? or are you assuming DOM?
Tecumseh changed the DOM numbering configuration after 2003..which is why I ask.

Can you post the full engine tag info exactly as it is on the tag?
all numbers?
that will be helpful.
thanks,
Scot


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## gsnod

Scot -- Yes, on the engine tag it reads DOM: 6290

The Engine Model Number is HMSK80 155386U



sscotsman said:


> Does it actually say "DOM" on the tag? or are you assuming DOM?
> Tecumseh changed the DOM numbering configuration after 2003..which is why I ask.
> 
> Can you post the full engine tag info exactly as it is on the tag?
> all numbers?
> that will be helpful.
> thanks,
> Scot


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## gsnod

sscotsman said:


> Does it actually say "DOM" on the tag? or are you assuming DOM?
> Tecumseh changed the DOM numbering configuration after 2003..which is why I ask.
> 
> Can you post the full engine tag info exactly as it is on the tag?
> all numbers?
> that will be helpful.
> thanks,
> Scot


Yep...not interested in the political discussion, as I know that has many different perspectives. The real question on the Predator motors is will they match up (easily) to replace the Tecumseh.


scipper77 said:


> There are plenty of politics around here regarding the harbor freight motors.
> 
> If you have no issues replacing am American motor with a Chinese motor that "borrows" a Honda design then the predator motors are absolutely fantastic. If you want to get into politics just search around for an american vs Chinese motors thread.


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## GustoGuy

gsnod said:


> Yep...not interested in the political discussion, as I know that has many different perspectives. The real question on the Predator motors is will they match up (easily) to replace the Tecumseh.


Yes. I have a Predator 212cc on my MTD 5/22. Here are some threads on how to do it. If you have a single shaft engine it is a piece of cake. I had a double shaft engine and it takes a little bit more work to get the Drive system working correctly since the second shaft which powers the drive spins in the opposite direction at 1/2 the rate.


replaced engine on MTD Yard machine 5/22 with a Harbor Freight Predator 212cc

I finished my Predator 212cc powered 1996 MTD 5/22


Repowering with an OHV Predator engine is cost effective way Vrs buying a new machine


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## nt40lanman

You can get another Tec, just make sure the crank is the right size. Anything else that doesn't work you can swap over from the old engine.


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## nt40lanman

P.S. if you can find a 10hp, it'll bolt in.


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## gsnod

OK -- I'm a bit confused as to twin shafts vs. single shaft. What's the difference, other than 1 vs. 2 shafts sticking out of the engine? I believe that on my current engine, both pulleys are driven by the same shaft, and that's all I remember sticking out of the engine....



GustoGuy said:


> Yes. I have a Predator 212cc on my MTD 5/22. Here are some threads on how to do it. If you have a single shaft engine it is a piece of cake. I had a double shaft engine and it takes a little bit more work to get the Drive system working correctly since the second shaft which powers the drive spins in the opposite direction at 1/2 the rate.
> 
> 
> replaced engine on MTD Yard machine 5/22 with a Harbor Freight Predator 212cc
> 
> I finished my Predator 212cc powered 1996 MTD 5/22
> 
> 
> Repowering with an OHV Predator engine is cost effective way Vrs buying a new machine


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## td5771

There is a single output shaft engine - 1 crankshaft sticking out. It will have a double/triple groove pulley, 1 for the drive wheels and 1 or 2 for the auger drive.

Then there is a double output shaft engine - 1 crankshaft sticking out and 1 on the camshaft also coming out of the block. The camshaft drives the wheels and the crank drives the auger.

The problem on double shaft engines is that the shaft on the camshaft runs at half the speed and in the opposite direction so if you put a single engine in place of a double your drive will be 2 times as fast and your forward gears will now be reverse gears and your reverse will be forward.

If you only have 1 output shaft with all the belts on the one, you have no problem. the predator has the same bolt pattern and crankshaft location (distance from mounting plate to centerline etc..) 

You will be able to use the same belts and all.

I think the only issue may be the chute control and the base plate of the predator may be thick than the original motor. New bolts or removal of the studs in the snow blower and replace with bolts.


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## Shryp

I switched from a Tecumseh HM80 to a 212cc Predator on my Ariens and I think the only issue I had was the Tecumseh was a 1" shaft and the Predator was a 3/4" shaft. I needed to get new pulleys for mine.

Power wise, I don't think the 1 less HP matters as it seems to have plenty of power and I even went up in size for the auger pulley.

If you really have no holes in the block, you might be able to replace the rod and use the existing engine. Make sure you check behind the electric starter as that is usually where they crack. Also, check the crankshaft journal real good as if there is still some aluminum deposits from the old rod there the new one with weld to it and break again.


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## micah68kj

Found this on Washington DC craigslist. Not a Snow King but sure looks nice.


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## Shryp

micah68kj said:


> Found this on Washington DC craigslist. Not a Snow King but sure looks nice.


A generator engine probably has a tapered shaft.


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## scipper77

Shryp said:


> If you really have no holes in the block, you might be able to replace the rod and use the existing engine. Make sure you check behind the electric starter as that is usually where they crack. Also, check the crankshaft journal real good as if there is still some aluminum deposits from the old rod there the new one with weld to it and break again.


I was faced with the exact same decision after picking up a curbside blower with a shattered rod. I decided that if I was going to replace the rod I would also have to replace the crankshaft. Because I had no idea how worn out the rest of the motor was and a predator replacement motor was almost the same price as a crank and connecting rod for the Tecumseh I chose the new motor to avoid all of the potential heartburn that making the old motor run well again would likely have caused. I would say that planning to only replace the rod is not a wise move. Of course my crankshaft had a lot of aluminum fused to it. Your situation might be very different.


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## Shryp

Muriatic acid or lye are suppose to be able to dissolve the aluminium and leave the steal behind.

Cleaning aluminum off a crank


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## CarlB

Shryp said:


> A generator engine probably has a tapered shaft.


 +1 on that


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## gsnod

Thanks very much -- this is a great education. I looked again today, and do have a single shaft, so it looks like there is great potential for this to be a (relatively)
easy change-over.



td5771 said:


> There is a single output shaft engine - 1 crankshaft sticking out. It will have a double/triple groove pulley, 1 for the drive wheels and 1 or 2 for the auger drive.
> 
> Then there is a double output shaft engine - 1 crankshaft sticking out and 1 on the camshaft also coming out of the block. The camshaft drives the wheels and the crank drives the auger.
> 
> The problem on double shaft engines is that the shaft on the camshaft runs at half the speed and in the opposite direction so if you put a single engine in place of a double your drive will be 2 times as fast and your forward gears will now be reverse gears and your reverse will be forward.
> 
> If you only have 1 output shaft with all the belts on the one, you have no problem. the predator has the same bolt pattern and crankshaft location (distance from mounting plate to centerline etc..)
> 
> You will be able to use the same belts and all.
> 
> I think the only issue may be the chute control and the base plate of the predator may be thick than the original motor. New bolts or removal of the studs in the snow blower and replace with bolts.


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## gsnod

OK -- I sense that a HF Predator 212 engine is the way to go, as the cost is actually cheaper than any of the Tecumseh's I've found on CraigsList. I do have a single shaft, so hopefully everything will fit. If the shaft size is different, how does one go about getting larger or smaller diameter pulleys? 



td5771 said:


> There is a single output shaft engine - 1 crankshaft sticking out. It will have a double/triple groove pulley, 1 for the drive wheels and 1 or 2 for the auger drive.
> 
> Then there is a double output shaft engine - 1 crankshaft sticking out and 1 on the camshaft also coming out of the block. The camshaft drives the wheels and the crank drives the auger.
> 
> The problem on double shaft engines is that the shaft on the camshaft runs at half the speed and in the opposite direction so if you put a single engine in place of a double your drive will be 2 times as fast and your forward gears will now be reverse gears and your reverse will be forward.
> 
> If you only have 1 output shaft with all the belts on the one, you have no problem. the predator has the same bolt pattern and crankshaft location (distance from mounting plate to centerline etc..)
> 
> You will be able to use the same belts and all.
> 
> I think the only issue may be the chute control and the base plate of the predator may be thick than the original motor. New bolts or removal of the studs in the snow blower and replace with bolts.





scipper77 said:


> I was faced with the exact same decision after picking up a curbside blower with a shattered rod. I decided that if I was going to replace the rod I would also have to replace the crankshaft. Because I had no idea how worn out the rest of the motor was and a predator replacement motor was almost the same price as a crank and connecting rod for the Tecumseh I chose the new motor to avoid all of the potential heartburn that making the old motor run well again would likely have caused. I would say that planning to only replace the rod is not a wise move. Of course my crankshaft had a lot of aluminum fused to it. Your situation might be very different.


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## td5771

Learned the hard way in my beginner Years that muriatic acid Does indeed melt aluminum. Ate a small block Chevy set of pistons no problem.

Check your crank diameter first. They came both 1 inch and 3/4. There is a 3/4 output one under my bench now.

If it is needed the are readily available at go cart suppliers or grainger. I use grainger. Because they are local and can pick it up but they wont always sell to you unless you have a business account with them. I piggy back off a friends business.


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## scipper77

Don't quote me but I think tractor supply might have pulleys.


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## gsnod

Thanks td5771 -- good advice. I'll get out my tape measure and check the diameter of the crank, and go from there. 



td5771 said:


> Learned the hard way in my beginner Years that muriatic acid Does indeed melt aluminum. Ate a small block Chevy set of pistons no problem.
> 
> Check your crank diameter first. They came both 1 inch and 3/4. There is a 3/4 output one under my bench now.
> 
> If it is needed the are readily available at go cart suppliers or grainger. I use grainger. Because they are local and can pick it up but they wont always sell to you unless you have a business account with them. I piggy back off a friends business.


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## Shryp

My HM80 was 1" and my Predator is 3/4".

I had some pulleys left over from an H70 so I used that for my wheel drive. I bought a new pulley for the auger since I wanted to bump it up to 3.25".

I bought my 3 1/4 x 3/4 pulley from the "Steel V-Belt Pulleys" section here:
Pulleys & Idlers | Lawn Mower Parts | MFG Supply

Gustoguy bought his here:
Phoenix Manufacturing Product Catalog

I have bought them at a local Tractor Supply Company store, but I didn't like those as much. Those were pulleys for a 5/8" belt, so the 1/2" belt fit so far down in them it was hard to get an accurate measurement.

I am not sure where you live, but I have 2 Harbor Freight stores local to me so I can just drive down there and pick things up when I need them. When you get your engine make sure you have one of these or print it out.


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## Cavalier

Shryp, will they accept a personal printed coupon?

I know I didn't see anything about _"Unauthorized Duplication"_

Plus, do they make Predator engines with dual shafts or is that a Tecumseh thing?


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## HCBPH

Cavalier said:


> Shryp, will they accept a personal printed coupon?
> 
> I know I didn't see anything about _"Unauthorized Duplication"_
> 
> Plus, do they make Predator engines with dual shafts or is that a Tecumseh thing?


No dual shaft Predators I know of.
On the coupon, alot of magazines carry the HF ads like Pop Mechanics, Hot Rod, Carcraft, even the Am Legion magazine. Also if you get one of the mailings that contain alot of coupons, you'll find them in there also. Another place is at the store itself, usually have current mailings in a rack in the front of the store.


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## Shryp

None of the Predators are dual shaft. I have seen a couple Briggs like that too.

I have printed coupons out before and never had any trouble. Sign up for their emails and they send them to you often too.

Heck, since you are headed down there have a look through the free item coupons here and print one of those out too!
Harbor Freight Coupons, Harbor Freight Printable Coupons


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## Cavalier

Well what do you know, there was a printable 25% Harbor Freight coupon there just like what Shryp posted.

Thanks guys.


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## Shryp

Cavalier said:


> Well what do you know, there was a printable 25% Harbor Freight coupon there just like what Shryp posted.
> 
> Thanks guys.


That is because that is where I got it from.


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## scipper77

Already covered but yes you can print them. That's how I use the 20% off coupons I get in my email.


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## gsnod

Thank you everyone for these comments! Fortunately I have a Harbor Freight right down the road, and cut out this same coupon from this past Sunday's paper. I do plan to get the Predator engine. Then I'll (likely) need to get some new pulleys for the crank. I'll probably buy the engine this week, and hopefully swap it out this weekend. 

It will be nice to have some leftover parts from the engine -- carburetor, pull cord, etc!


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