# Why Briggs on the Pro series



## Noreaster (Feb 9, 2015)

So its been years now that ariens has had the AX engines out and they have the 414 putting out 20ft-lbs. There is lots of claims on how the LCT/AX motors are rated for 4x the life of the briggs. I am sure ariens has a better price point on the AX motors for more profit. It all makes me wonder why does ariens still use the briggs motor on the pro line. Is it all about that 1ft-lb more or are there other benefits of the 2100? I have not found anywhere that states what the life expectancy is of the polar force 2100. 
I apologize if this has been covered. I used the best google-foo that i had tonight for the past 20 min and cant find any info.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

Noreaster said:


> So its been years now that ariens has had the AX engines out and they have the 414 putting out 20ft-lbs. There is lots of claims on how the LCT/AX motors are rated for 4x the life of the briggs. I am sure ariens has a better price point on the AX motors for more profit. It all makes me wonder why does ariens still use the briggs motor on the pro line. Is it all about that 1ft-lb more or are there other benefits of the 2100? I have not found anywhere that states what the life expectancy is of the polar force 2100.
> I apologize if this has been covered. I used the best google-foo that i had tonight for the past 20 min and cant find any info.



Good question. I think Ariens believes that their target customer for this high
End machine would want a Briggs branded engine over a known China built manufacturer, even though we all know that the Briggs engine is made in China. Both engines are designed/engineered in the U.S.

In my research of the Briggs when I was considering a Pro 28, it seemed like the Polar Force had more covers, over the spark plug, and the carb is harder to drain. The main benefit that I could see was the fuel tank is much larger than the LCT's, which is a nice feature on an engine of this size. Although I like the low profile design of the GEN III LCT engines, they are easier to see over if you are not very tall.

Additionally the Briggs engine on the Ariens machines are warranted through authorized Briggs dealers (which most Ariens dealers should be), not through Ariens like the LCT engines.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

:roll3yes:is the briggs really a briggs ? or is that decal aimed at brand loyalty ?


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Briggs is still a Briggs. Even if they are made in china now like everything else. They are good engines and owned and designed by the original B&S company. 

Tecumseh on the other hand.. 
In 2007, the company's former gasoline engine and power train product lines, which is what the company had been most known for, were sold to Platinum Equity LLC, which does business as Tecumseh Power. Tecumseh engine products at one time were sold in over 120 countries. In December 2008, the company closed its engine manufacturing division.[4] TecumsehPower sold off its Peerless transmissions business to Husqvarna Outdoor Products.[4]
On February 10, 2009, Platinum Equity LLC announced that Tecumseh Power Company had sold certain assets of its engine business to Certified Parts Corporation. This included the sale of existing and unfinished engine parts inventory, tools to make finished product and certain intellectual property assets. Certified Parts Corporation also assumed responsibility for warranty of previous engine sales.[5]
In an interview published by The Janesville Gazette on February 10, 2009, Certified Parts Corporation President Jim Grafft said "that he plans to move the engine operation to Rock County, Wisconsin, where he owns three facilities in Janesville and one in Edgerton, and will initially supply parts for Tecumseh Power engines. Grafft also said that his company could eventually resume engine production, which Tecumseh Power ceased in December 2008".
On September 1, 2010, Certified Parts Corporation (CPC) of Janesville, WI announced it had entered into an agreement with LCT, (Liquid Combustion Technology) of Travelers Rest, SC to jointly manufacture air-cooled engines for the outdoor power equipment market. The agreement provided CPC with engineering, manufacturing, and sales capabilities allowing it to reintroduce the Snow King line of snow thrower engines and other engines formerly manufactured and sold by TecumsehPower. The engines are exclusively represented by LCT, and sold under the Snow King, Lauson, and LCT brands and serviced exclusively by CPC and the existing TecumsehPower dealer/distributor network. Traditionally, the Snow King line of engines had powered more snowthrowers than all other brands combined.
LCT's horizontal 4-stroke gasoline engine product offering was extended by this agreement and allowed CPC and LCT to provide single cylinder and V-twin vertical engines to outdoor power equipment manufacturers. According to Larry Zeman, VP of Winter Engine Products for LCT, "This establishes LCT as an engine manufacturer of choice as it continues to engineer a new generation of power."
(Taken from Wikipedia)


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

GoBlowSnow said:


> Briggs is still a Briggs. Even if they are made in china now like everything else. They are good engines and owned and designed by the original B&S company.
> 
> Tecumseh on the other hand..
> In 2007, the company's former gasoline engine and power train product lines, which is what the company had been most known for, were sold to Platinum Equity LLC, which does business as Tecumseh Power. Tecumseh engine products at one time were sold in over 120 countries. In December 2008, the company closed its engine manufacturing division.[4] TecumsehPower sold off its Peerless transmissions business to Husqvarna Outdoor Products.[4]
> ...


 I am still confused on the 2nd part of that.:smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009::smiley-confused009:


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

My interpretation is that when Tecumseh closed, they sold their remaining parts, tooling, and designs to CPC. CPC then partnered with LCT and presumably transferred the tooling and designs to them, which LCT is now using to make engines under their own name.

I'm not a big fan of Chinese stuff in general, but at least it sounds like LCT tried to do things the right way, in the sense that they paid for the designs instead of reverse-engineering and copying another manufacturer's engines.


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## Noreaster (Feb 9, 2015)

There are not many choices when it comes to these engines. Well at least choices of companies that are trying to produce quality innovative product. (as opposed to someone grabbing an expired patent and trying to reproduce it as cheap as possible). I do wish Kawasaki would get into the market. 

Briggs is a competitor of ariens and that was one of the original reasons they introduced the AX line by LCT. It seems to me that the AX line would be a better profit for them now that they get to sell the engine parts as well as the blower parts. For a consumer i like the idea of the entire machine being covered by 1 warranty entity. This business model makes sense from a corporate perspective as well. 

I am just wondering whats so special about the briggs that they keep it on the pro series? Is it really just the name? Is it the 1ft-lb more? Is the 2100 special and superior in some way to the LTC offerings? 

I have not owned an intek snow, or a current briggs snow motor, yet. But i am rather looking forward to it. (i have a pro 28 hydro on the way). The Tecumseh motors i have had in the past were tinkerers - it seemed that the carb tunnings would change with the weather on my old L-head, and i was fortunate enough to enjoy a OHSK-120 with the square gas tank, whos gas flow was not strong enough to feed the motor when there was less than half a tank of gas. (the OEM fix was a piece of foam on the bottom of the gas tank that made it look empty once you are down to 1/3rd a tank. Didn't really notice until the tank had to be replaced. So i am rather tired of the Tecumseh heritage at the moment. 

Hopefully, This motor is as nice as the blower. I think ariens is the one manufacture where the motor gets tired before the blower.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Noreaster said:


> I am just wondering whats so special about the briggs that they keep it on the pro series? Is it really just the name?


I have no proof of this, just an assumption, but IMO its most likely that yes, it's really just the name..

Its somewhat common knowledge (for the moderately educated snowblower shopper) that all the snowblower manufacturers are now using engines made in China..for their "own" engines.

But its perhaps somewhat less common knowledge (for the less educated snowblower shopper, even the "rich" ones) that all Briggs engines are *also* now made in China..

Here in this forum, we all know there is no real difference..the engines are ALL made in China, even the Briggs engines..but the Briggs brand name still enjoys a certain air of "Made in the USA quality" , and a perceived higher quality difference than those "other" engines..(again..even though we know there is now no real difference..ALL the current snowblower engines (on the well-known brand name machines) have decent engines, and all are made in china)

So i think its just about the perception that Ariens wants for their "Pro" series..buyers at that level want that "perceived" quality difference that the Briggs brand name gives them..whether or not the quality difference is actually real or not is beside the point!  its all about perception..its most likely just a smart marketing choice.

Scot


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## coachDOC (Oct 23, 2015)

Noreaster said:


> I am sure ariens has a better price point on the AX motors for more profit. .



I doubt this very much. As a for-profit company, Ariens would make a choice like this only to generate more profit. It may not be for the obvious reasons, but somewhere along the line, it was determined that a Briggs engine (or at least the Briggs decal) would be result in more profit than the AX.


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## Noreaster (Feb 9, 2015)

So there have been 2 posts hinting to just a briggs decal.
Whats the thought process here? Are there suspicions Briggs is re-branding a 3rd party motor? I was under the impression that the motor is made in china, but is still made to the briggs engineered specs and plans.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

I think Scotsman explained this well, it is more than likely this was a marketing decision more so than an engineering one. At the end of the day these are both quality engines that should perform well with proper maintenance for many years to come.

You may want to give Ariens tech support a phone call just to see what they say regarding why the Briggs over the LCT on the Pro series, would be interesting to hear what they say.

I think that the Ariens marketing dept. believed on this high-end series, in an effort to differentiate it more from the LCT powered Platinum Series, let's go with the Briggs engine due to its strong brand recognition. There are other features we know that differentiate the Pro Series from the other machines but this was likely a factor in their decision to go with a Briggs power plant. Regarding their profit margins I agree they are likely higher on the LCT's but I'm sure they are not too bad on the Briggs engine either.

That is a really nice machine that you have coming, best of luck with it.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Noreaster said:


> So there have been 2 posts hinting to just a briggs decal.
> Whats the thought process here? Are there suspicions Briggs is re-branding a 3rd party motor? I was under the impression that the motor is made in china, but is still made to the briggs engineered specs and plans.


They are B&S engines. When I told the guys at the Simplicity dealer about this thread they're saying, "how does this stuff get started?" "Remember the GM Chevy, Olds engine thing". They said decal or sticker placing or re-branding is something, "flat out is not going to happen".


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

I doubt a Briggs is on this model just to impress the Customer. 

A more likely scenario IMO: 

Briggs has probably seen their market share crumble over the last 10 years from the Chinese onslaught and is desperate to keep the name out there. Can you imagine what a graph of Briggs' US market share from 2005 to 2015 looks like? So maybe they gave Ariens a sweet deal on 420cc engines they could not resist. 

Perhaps the "sweet deal" reasoning is also why Ariens put a Subaru Robin engine on the Compact 22 for only 1 or 2 years?


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Not too sure if things are crumbling quite yet. From the B&S website. "Briggs & Stratton produces some of the world's most reliable lawn mower engines and small engines. For over 100 years, we have manufactured engines that are durable, reliable and just easy to use and maintain. Every year, 3,000 employees build over 10 million small engines right here in America. Those are just some of the reasons why *8 out of 10* lawn mower brands choose to utilize Briggs & Stratton engines to power their lawn tractors and push mowers". 
And yet more: "Briggs & Stratton Corporation, headquartered in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, is the* world’s largest producer* of gasoline engines for outdoor power equipment. Its wholly owned subsidiaries include North America’s number one marketer of pressure washers, and it is a leading designer, manufacturer and marketer of power generation, lawn and garden, turf care and job site products through its Briggs & Stratton®, Simplicity®, Snapper®, Snapper Pro® Ferris®, PowerBoss®, Allmand™, Billy Goat®, Murray®, Branco® and Victa® brands. Briggs & Stratton products are designed, manufactured, marketed and serviced in over 100 countries on six continents.
The snowblower engine market is a tiny fraction of the outdoor engine market. Probably less than 1/2 of 1 percent, or maybe even less. If B&S would have a "give away price" on any of it's engines they can start with me!


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

Don't get me wrong I have been using Briggs powered equipment for >35 years and never had a lick of trouble, never had a reason to change. Things have been good.

At one time (1970 - 2006 +/-) everything, and I mean everything, was powered by a Briggs, Kohler or Tec. 

Today my guess is that at least half of all the small engine'd OPE is now powered by Chinese based LCT, Loncin, Powermore, etc and gaining fast as their durability is being proven. At least it's the perception of this longtime OPE enthusiast (me). 

If the Chinese brand perception/trend isn't affecting the strategy of the Briggs VP of Sales I'd be shocked.


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## BullFrog (Oct 14, 2015)

B&S has always had competitors. Being competitive and knowing the competition is always on the mind of of every corporate executive, large and small so you take it in stride and do something about it. You can't give away your product either. It's not all about price.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

" The Tecumseh motors i have had in the past were tinkerers - it seemed that the carb tunnings would change with the weather"

Yup. I expereienced the same thing on the 80s and 90s vintage Tecumsehs. most notably on certain John Deeres and Craftsman machines and a few Ariens. The 8HP engines seemed to be the most troublesome. But they did make a good lawn more engine. I had 2 craftsman mowers in the past, an 83/84 model 2-speed (hi/lo) and a 2000ish model. Both used quite heavily yet the motors on both were good solid Tecumsehs and rarely gave me any trouble. It was the rest of the machine that broke first (handlebars rusted off or drive gears and axle wore out/broke)


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

its truely a shame that we ( canada and the us) cannot build products that can compete in the market. all the stuff thats labeled " made in" is still just parts from away being assembled here. honda is a perfect example. jmo


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

it all comes down to how much $$$ can be saved by the companies (which is what the share holders and what not want from the companies) which is why things are outsourced and manufacturing is moved to countries where they can pay people $5.00 an hour instead of $20.00 an hour.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

GoBlowSnow said:


> it all comes down to how much $$$ can be saved by the companies (which is what the share holders and what not want from the companies) which is why things are outsourced and manufacturing is moved to countries where they can pay people $5.00 an hour instead of $20.00 an hour.


Perhaps $5 a day or even less.


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## KrowNB (Mar 23, 2015)

GoBlowSnow said:


> it all comes down to how much $$$ can be saved by the companies (which is what the share holders and what not want from the companies) which is why things are outsourced and manufacturing is moved to countries where they can pay people $5.00 hour instead of $20.00 an hour.


Wages is always given as a reason for NA jobs going south or to Asia. I think that's only part of the reason. Plants built in China, etc don't have to meet the environmental standards they do here. Neither do they have to worry about labour strikes, employee benefits, or law suits. Taxes and other incentives no doubt play a part as well.

Factories built in Canada 30 or 40 years ago would today take years of environmental studies at enormous cost to be able to build. It's been decades since we've seen anything new going up in my area. I suspect it's the same in the US. In the third world they can be up and running in a matter of months with little red tape to wade through.


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## Snowhawg (Feb 20, 2015)

The Briggs have a much larger fuel tank and slightly more power. All to appeal to commercial users more than the LCT engine. I've used Briggs for decades and LCT more recently, and the LCT is a good reliable residential grade engine. Briggs on the other hand has destroyed their brand reputation by making the most unreliable crap in the market. I am not confident the engine in my Pro series will last as long as others, but I had no choice. The gas capacity alone on the LCT is a deal breaker. In my town there are 3 lawn/garden dealers, and all 3 will sway you to purchasing anything other than a Briggs if there is a choice (they all love Kawasaki engines for VERY good reason). My guess is they will replace the Briggs with an LCT engine when their contract runs out. Until then keep your fingers crossed.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

GoBlowSnow said:


> it all comes down to how much $$$ can be saved by the companies (which is what the share holders and what not want from the companies) which is why things are outsourced and manufacturing is moved to countries where they can pay people $5.00 an hour instead of $20.00 an hour.


I generally agree with your theory here, luckily Ariens is still a family owned company and this is likely a why they still build a quality machine with less cost cutting components than most of their competition. Pride of workmanship is evident in the product.


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## Arney (Feb 3, 2015)

Pure speculation but as both companies are Wisconsin orientated, the Stratton and Ariens families have close personal ties. That helps. I know Harry Stratton from Strattec, the mother company that spun off B&S.


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## SmokinBuddha (Oct 6, 2015)

Noreaster said:


> So its been years now that ariens has had the AX engines out and they have the 414 putting out 20ft-lbs. There is lots of claims on how the LCT/AX motors are rated for 4x the life of the briggs. I am sure ariens has a better price point on the AX motors for more profit. It all makes me wonder why does ariens still use the briggs motor on the pro line. Is it all about that 1ft-lb more or are there other benefits of the 2100? I have not found anywhere that states what the life expectancy is of the polar force 2100.
> I apologize if this has been covered. I used the best google-foo that i had tonight for the past 20 min and cant find any info.


Ariens discontinued the Briggs on the Hydro Pro 32 for this year. If you wanted a Hydro Pro 32, it's very hard to find one, because it's very limited according to Ariens. Not sure which engine will be on the Hydro Pro 32 for next year, I guess wait and see.


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