# Discuss-Choosing a Snowblower



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

The purpose of this thread is to allow general discussions, observations and just about anything related to the Snowblower Database Spreadsheet.

The data is here: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...473-choosing-snowblower-spreadsheet-data.html
*Please don't post on that thread - We need it to be pure data and free from bias
*I don't think it's possible to put any kind of owner-lock on a thread to prevent accidental posts - If it IS then please let me know

On this thread, those rules no longer apply. This is a place to speak about the data in that spreadsheet.
There is scope for some subjectivity on this thread.

I would ask people to restrict opinions to those things that can be verified in the database wherever possible.
However I'm flexible on that and am willing to see how things go initially (if they even go at all).
I want to keep things "honest" and "rational" so if your post is about something outside the database, please link to your evidence &/or your rationale for your opinion.
That allows us to fact-check and to avoid religious wars. Make sense?

Here's an example of something I'm trying to avoid... "Those ACME machines are just a pile of guano!"
However, if you can explain what it is that makes you believe that and why..... that's good information to have.
Maybe I can then add a guano-detection column to the database.. if it can be quantified and measured.

This thread is also intended for me to get a feeling for the general interest in the database.
If there is a stunned silence then my motivation for continuing the effort will obviously wane.

If, on the other hand, I get the impression that there is value in the database and some level of enthusiasm that might keep me motivated... for a while at least.

Let's see what (if anything) develops.


----------



## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

can a loncin 302 cc engine on the 38802 weigh more then the 38680 with a 342 cc brigs? then looking them up the 302 cc loncin is 70 pounds while the larger 342 cc brigs is only 63


----------



## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Looking at your Toro data you might want to add an column telling us if the model you've listed is discontinued. Having data about models you cannot buy new is fine for those looking at used but might be frustrating for those looking at new models. HD 1028 OHXE (38802) is current as well as HD 1028 OHXE (38806). No more HD 1128 OXE unless a dealer has one left over.


----------



## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

i agree yet simply having a one spot list of specs can aid someone doing a rebuild/restoration of a discontinued model for which i know there is a older thread in here holding that info on almost every brand/model


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

87 powershift said:


> can a loncin 302 cc engine on the 38802 weigh more then the 38680 with a 342 cc brigs? then looking them up the 302 cc loncin is 70 pounds while the larger 342 cc brigs is only 63


EDIT: Just rewording your answer... *they have totally different engines!!*

So you either need to know that or add a column that tells you that.... I'm not wanting to go that route unless there's huge enthusiasm... in this case... I would probably take the easy option and remove the soon-to-be-obsolete model.... or maybe add a model year column to alert us to the fact that something is different.. even if it doesn't tell us what. I could see me buying into that approach.

Right now I'm watching and wondering if this is something to pursue or if I should just get a life! ;-)


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Zavie said:


> Looking at your Toro data you might want to add an column telling us if the model you've listed is discontinued. Having data about models you cannot buy new is fine for those looking at used but might be frustrating for those looking at new models. HD 1028 OHXE (38802) is current as well as HD 1028 OHXE (38806). No more HD 1128 OXE unless a dealer has one left over.


That would be useful... especially since the price would no longer be relevant and bang-for-buck would be a historical measurement.
You'd obviously need to factor inflation into that though. Inflation and cost-of-living over time is out there on the web somewhere.. but there's no way I could imagine going down that route. Too much effort.

BTW The reason that model is in there is because of the history of the spreadsheet. Someone recommended that model if you can find one that is left over.
Thanks for caring

EDIT: If it was possible to find sheet-metal thickness on the manufacturer's website and if I added a column for that and if I maintained historical data....
then we'd have evidence to show why a lot of us get depressed or angry. ;-) It would also tell us that ACME snowblowers are perhaps better than Snows-R-Us models (at least with respect to that metric). It could also help us understand the differences between Commercial and Residential models.....maybe. 

I may have a created a Holy Grail monster that will eat me alive...I prefer the Monty Python version. ;-)


----------



## Paulie139 (Sep 25, 2017)

Stuart....do you sleep....ever?


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Paulie139 said:


> Stuart....do you sleep....ever?


It's probably OCD or early-onset dementia.. or both! Let me analyze that and put it in a spreadsheet and get back to you.... probably at 4am ;-)


----------



## Paulie139 (Sep 25, 2017)

That is AWESOME!!!


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

I prefer not to post on this thread to maintain an objective passive position
Every question here is rhetorical.

However, this is not too controversial and is fairly objective - may get people thinking a little if they are interested.

Did you notice that..
1) Ariens Pro machines are generally heavier than their Deluxe models - is that good or bad or neutral?
2) Ariens Pro machines are generally lower B4B compared to Deluxe - maybe there are alternative criteria for choosing Pro over Deluxe that are not reflected purely by B4B? - but what?
3) Ariens Pro machines are generally more expensive than their Deluxe models
4) Ariens Pro machines are generally better TpH compared to Deluxe

Makes sense I suppose - or does it? - Think about it.

How did the Ariens rep at the dealership explain the differences? 
Was any of that validated in the spreadsheet? 
Do you sometimes get confused by all the choices and info on the Vendor websites?
Can you trust my data or did I make an accidental mistake?
What could I add to the spreadsheet to help you? (That one is NOT rhetorical)


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

For people who try to read all threads like myself....

Remember that some/many people post a question on a thread and just wait for replies without reading all threads that are drifting by.... those people won't know about this database.
I can't tell who does and who doesn't know about this database.

If you think the database has some value and if you see a question that you think could be helped by this database... will you help me out and point them to the spreadsheet thread please.
If I try to do that alone I will spend half my life updating the database and the other half pointing people towards it.
Just point them to the thread (not a specific post on the thread).. that way they'll get the latest version and not one that's been superseded.

Thanks for your help if you are willing to do that


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Just went looking for data from *Husqvarna *mainly because I don't see much buzz here on the forum

They have models as high as $2500 but the only information that was readily available that I could find was...
Price, Engine CC, Width and Weight (not specified wet or dry as per usual)
*I couldn't find any specs for Throw or Tons/hour*
*Am I wrong in thinking that these might be important to someone somewhere for some reason?*
However they DO have hand-warmers so that's got me sorted. ;-)
At least you can't sue them for overstating claims

However you CAN sue them in the USA if you don't like their HP numbers which they are still showing as* 12.2 hp*
Hopefully this horse-power can be verified independently but I don't claim to know how off the top of my head.
Presumably they consider themselves to be a Canada-only company these days - no idea

Given the lack of any tangible data that I could find easily 
My conclusion is this might be the machine for you if you like orange and shiny but don't care if it actually does anything useful. It may keep your hands warm though. (depends on design specs) may be as high as 12milliwatts .. can't tell.
I won't be adding a column for color

I don't understand the thought process of anyone choosing to buy any of these... maybe they just don't know better.
I suppose it could be brand loyalty but they would need to give me more relevant information before I put on the t-shirt and become a free walking billboard for them.
I wonder what a salesperson would tell you if you asked for that data and where she'd get it from?

*Do we have any proud Husqvarna owners who can help me understand this? Do you folks ask this kind of question? Am I being unfair? Did I miss the magic webpage?*
How would you verify it if they said.... "No problem.. this model here is WAY better than the Yamaha... throws further and beats them on performance for way less money... you are a smart well-informed buyer.. we don't usually get people as thoughtful as you... here... have a free t-shirt... it's blue.. I can knock $100 off if you buy today... do you need credit?.. no problem!"

Ironic... I just remembered I'm a Husqvarna owner.. got a donation last week from d3500ram and it's still in my Subaru. Maybe I can rebuild it and get those stats for us ;-)

P.S. I suspect there may be a vacancy in their marketing department if anyone's looking for a job. There ought to be.
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/snow-blowers/st-330t/961930095/


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

I wanted to be fair to Husqvarna so I briefly checked a *Craftsman *model chosen totally at random from the Sears website

*I discovered that model gives no information about Tons/hr or Throw either.
*
Without any data to confirm this... I am beginning to suspect that many if not all snowblowers from this sector of the market and downwards will also not have that data.

So either I am focusing my attention on the wrong decision criteria when looking for *Tons/hr and Throw *or there are a huge number of machines out there where you can have *no idea* until after you've bought it.. taken it home... filled it with oil and gas and tested it yourself. Of course, at that point you usually *cannot return them* because you've used them.
The only criteria you have to go by are "Does it look like a Snowblower? Does it quack like a Snowblower? then maybe, hopefully, if I'm lucky it may or may not actually be a Snowblower in some sense of the word"

So my question to the salesperson might go something like this...

Yes good morning...sorry?.. no thanks I don't need the t-shirt... I was wondering... I read this on your webpage...
_From long winding driveways to the sidewalk in front of your home, the *Craftsman 24" 208cc Snow Blower* will clear your path with ease. With 8 adjustable speeds, you can quickly and safely throw packed snow and ice without breaking a sweat. The 4-cycle, 208cc OHV engine delivers serious power to help you handle even the worst of blizzards. With easy control grips, you'll be able to work your snow thrower even while wearing your thick winter mittens. Don't let winter take over your driveway and keep your path clear with this amazing Craftsman snow blower._
Can you please show me the specifications that substantiate and help me quantify or even qualify these claims? I'm a bit of a geek and these things interest me. Can I return it at any time for a full refund if it fails to do any or all of the above and will you promise to pay for the transportation? Oh by the way.. can I get that in writing... thanks.... My Grandpa used to LOVE Craftsman. .... sorry?.... No... I thought I said... I don't want a t-shirt.

By the way, did you notice the classic *reverse-spin* of taking a disadvantage and turning it into a perceived advantage?
_while wearing your thick winter mittens
_I think this model probably does NOT have hand-warmers but I didn't fact-check
Also this one: $599.99... think of all the printer ink they'd save if they just said $600 

*Bad News*: You can't tell what this is. Your only hope is to look at the engine size and possibly hope it might match one of the models in the database with a similar engine size. 
It is left as an exercise for the user to check the database for models with similar engine size to see if that does or does not give an indication. I do know the answer. See attachment #2
I'm pleased to see a further potential benefit of having this type of database. It's been a lot of work.

*Good News*: Keeping this database up to date is going to be a piece of cake. I was feeling a little guilty that there were hundreds of models that were being ignored by my data. Now I may no longer need to care.

To me this is very strange but seems to be true. People must be buying these machines based on shockingly *poor selection criteria *and just hoping for the best.

By the way.. read the first negative review for this random model.
Here: Sears.com

*If you find the missing data please let me know

Please feel free to correct any errors in my logic and/or conclusions or to offer different interpretations or hypotheses. 

*


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Have you ever looked at a rating and asked what that really means (if anything at all)?

If I tell you my Bobcat throws up to 120 feet ...

a) 15 feet is "upto" 120 feet... so if that's all I get ... I'm not lying and you can't sue me
b) Did I do a series of meaningful practical tests (that someone else could verify for themselves) average the results and give you the average? maximum? median? 
c) What about error bars? 120 feet plus or minus 10 feet 
d) Was I lying or maybe manipulating you? What does my claim really mean?
e) Did I calculate the expected range using a bit of math using things like RPM, impeller radius and a few other bits-n-pieces? (I'm still wondering if I know how to get that equation).
f) Did someone else verify it for me like an independent testing lab?
g) What does the little asterisk mean next to those numbers? In plain English it means it MAY throw up to 120 feet... then again it MAY NOT. (What do you do with a number like THAT!?) 

I am not endorsing Consumer Reports and I am certainly not endorsing the models they test.
For all I know, ACME blowers may be slipping them a few bucks to sweeten the pot
Come to think about it.. maybe someone is slipping ME a few bucks... or a t-shirt
I promise that is NOT the case ;-) 

However.. they have an interesting way of trying to get a bit of unbiased(?) experimentation to at least try to be scientific

For anyone who doesn't know this already. They have a test track full of *wet saw-dust* and they start throwing the saw-dust around and measure how far it goes etc.

After all... 
The way to test bullet-proof glass is to load a rifle.
The way to test an auger-protection system is to throw a brick into your auger bucket
One way to at least try to test a snowblower is to start throwing saw-dust

In an ideal world, I could add a column for tested-throw versus claimed-throw to get a bit more authenticity into the database and maybe even reveal which vendors (if any) have dubious claims.
Remember the Horse-Power lawsuits? 

Unfortunately I didn't see any published statistics from CR in a spreadsheet. Pity! I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat. 
Maybe they want you to keep coming back to Consumer Reports instead of looking at my database. Makes sense I suppose... at least from their perspective.
That's why I can't endorse them.. if they made that data public.. I would.

Check them out here and scroll down to see their test-track in action https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/11/you-don-t-need-snow-to-test-snow-blowers/index.htm

The green and yellow machine is probably a John Deere so this is old news.... but I still appreciate their attempt and thought it was relevant to this thread.

From my own personal perspective, I think that *Tons/hour* and *Throw *are significant metrics.... I just want to make sure I know what those numbers are and where they come from.


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

*Making a decision when you don't have all the facts. Especially in the case of lower-end machines
*
If you agree that Tons/hr and Throw are important... how can we help the buyer whose budget can't afford the machines in the database and the vendor specs don't give that information?
I previously gave an image that answers this but if you are not familiar with seeing data presented as a cross-plot I'll try to explain what I think I see in that data.

You ask the salesperson and she says.. "Oh that's easy.. the bigger the engine the better the tons/hr and the better the throwing distance"
Intuitively that feels right.. but is it? Let's revisit those scatter plots one at a time.

*Tons per hour versus Engine Size
*Look at image #1. (I tried to inline it but this forum software has me beat)








Does it look like the Tons/hr gets better as the engine size gets bigger?
It does to me. In fact it.. as a rule of thumb.. it looks like it may even be linear... you could draw a straight line up the middle of that graph.
So the data does seem to support what the saleswoman told us. In fact.. I'd probably bet the farm on that if I had to.

*Throw versus Engine Size
*Take a look at image #2.

Is anyone convinced beyond all doubt that the throw gets better with engine size? 
I can see a general trend upwards as we move to the right but it's not as convincing as the previous example.
Also, the points are scattered all over the place.. there has to be something else going on too.. but what?
I certainly would not bet the farm on this one.

*Impellers:*
But wait a minute.. I read about some kind of high-efficiency impeller design on some website or other.
Could it be that some of these models have one of those and some don't? Maybe that wasn't bling after all.
To answer these questions you'd have to dig deeper into the database but I don't tell you much about the impellers.
In some cases I couldn't even figure out the size. 
With the lower-end machine you are looking at all I can say is... I'm not convinced that engine size affects Throw.
It might.. but there's more going on. I'm willing to believe it can't hurt to have a bigger engine though.
I might prefer bigger impellers if I was comparing two models and they were different for the same engine size.

*Conclusion:
Bigger engines throw more snow per hour... However, I'm not sure if they throw it a bigger distance or not.. Bigger impellers probably better for that.*

Data is great isn't it?


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

If someone knows the impeller sizes that are missing on the database, please will you post that info on this discussion thread. 
As always, links for fact-checking are appreciated if available. I need data for Toro & Honda & Yamaha


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

I went to check out *Cub Cadet* from the *MTD family *because I've seen some activity on the forum in recent days/weeks

To understand what I mean by *family *see this spreadsheet saying which snowblowers are made in which country
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0J...dJQWo1c0E/view

They have several models from $1100 to $2600
Engines 277cc to 420cc
impellers 14" (this makes me worry about the 12" assumption I made for Honda and Toro) 

*I found no data for Tons/hr or Throw*

Once again, your selection criteria are limited and you will have to go with Engine Size and just hope for the best

I am not going to add Cub Cadet to the database for these reasons
I will remove Husqvarna too. I don't want to accidentally imply a positive endorsement by leaving Husqvarna in there.

*There is nothing to be gained by adding a long list of vendors and models if they offer no meaningful data
*
http://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/C...d=1843058&productId=2021366&productId=2021368


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

I went to check out *Simplicity *from the *Briggs & Stratton family*
https://www.simplicitymfg.com/na/en...-blowers/signature-pro-professional-duty.html

They *DO specify throwing distance but not Tons/hr* even for their "Commercial" highest price model
I exclude them for that reason

To understand what I mean by *family *see this spreadsheet saying which snowblowers are made in which country
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0J8tVzfnr5VZnhaendJQWo1c0E/view

I have now sampled *at least one brand from each family* Husqvarna, MTD & Briggs-Stratton

I do not intend to sample the 100% Chinese family for reasons described in the USA/China thread
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...scussion/1364-made-usa-versus-made-china.html

Notice that *Yamaha *are unusual in that there is unconfirmed evidence to suggest that they too are *100% Chinese*
However, Yamaha are outliers in many other respects and are not even available in the USA
They stay in the database due to the fact that the specification data is available and they are generally regarded in Canada as being high-end products.

*This is probably the end of my search for data* and I will not drill down deeper into the mid-range families hoping to find data that probably does not exist.


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

;-)


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

*Hello first-time buyers*

*Hello first-time buyers*

After you've looked at the database and got your head around it and made a few decisions to get to a short-list.
Will you please PM with a rating so I can get a feel for the value it provided.
Let's say a number between 1 and 10 where 1 might signify "total waste of your time and mine" and 10 means "Wow this thing made all my decisions for me"
Maybe also a brief summary of how it helped and how it could be changed to help nail down the criteria that matter to you. 
BTW I'm looking for real data not "happy-numbers" they wouldn't help ;-) 

By the way PM means private message. Click on my name and a menu should pop up to let you do that
I'll be impressed if you can do that without sending a blank message to me or yourself first.. you'll know what I mean when it happens ;-)

Thanks


----------



## Arpinski (Sep 9, 2017)

please ignore


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Arpinski said:


> please ignore


Actually this was the correct thread ;-)
That other one was the wrong thread
Hard to tell because the truncated names are the same on the "Recent Discussions" panel :-(

Hey.. I found me a fact-checker!! Awesome!! Thanks for looking at the data and thanks for checking... I'll go take a peek if it's wrong and fix it pronto 

Thanks for caring


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

stuart80112 said:


> Actually this was the correct thread ;-)
> That other one was the wrong thread
> Hard to tell because the truncated names are the same on the "Recent Discussions" panel :-(
> 
> ...


Bonus points if you can reverse-engineer the error 

If the exchange rate is 0.8 then it's kinda important if you MULTIPLY or DIVIDE

Just commenting on your suggestions 

Friction/Hydro I explained previously why I didn't include that but mentioned it was useful. I was being overly-cautious and not wanting to bias anything by implying it might be important.... I was trying to avoid introducing an attribute that only ONE vendor may have.... do you see how that can be non-neutral in some cases. But If it's just a yes-no thing without a traffic-signal color and if it's not something obviously biased then yes I think I should introduce it.... after all it's just data.

I also think Carb/EFI is another one for the same reasons and the same rationale

I also agree on Pull/AC/DC but then there's DC-onboard DC-external maybe even others too if anyone can think of any others please jump in and tell me 


You probably see why I'm being anal-retentive on this vendor-neutral thing. I don't want to advantage or disadvantage ANY vendor... they are quite capable of doing that themselves with a set of specs and prices ;-) I need to stay true to that and if anyone spots me going astray... call me on it like I called myself on the impeller guesses for the reasons I mentioned.

That math error had a *severe *bias against Yamaha!! but only in the USA not in Canada... which doesn't actually matter given their Canada-only position ....ironic

Double bonus points for being a Canadian and looking at USA prices ;-)


----------



## Hanky (Nov 14, 2014)

I like all the effort that went into your spread sheets. But for a old raisin like me I like that way one blower feels over another one. I have my 2014 Toro and I use a Husky ST224P after I do my own yard and I feel that the little Husky for the price is a excellent machine, in some ways I like it better than my Toro. But you did a excellent job with your research so far.


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Hanky said:


> I like all the effort that went into your spread sheets. But for a old raisin like me I like that way one blower feels over another one. I have my 2014 Toro and I use a Husky ST224P after I do my own yard and I feel that the little Husky for the price is a excellent machine, in some ways I like it better than my Toro. But you did a excellent job with your research so far.


Astute observation... this is all 2 or 3-stage... I could see a similar database for single-stage or entries in this database to include them. I don''t have the energy for that at present though :-(
With those criteria you are currently on your own

If this was all readily available on a SINGLE spreadsheet from each vendor I'd have been done in 10 minutes!! They sure don't make it easy.


----------



## Hanky (Nov 14, 2014)

Both are 2 stage units, I realize you can not do every machine just from my own use and price wish the little Husky is a great little machine.


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Hanky said:


> Both are 2 stage units, I realize you can not do every machine just from my own use and price wish the little Husky is a great little machine.


Yep.. I didn't word that well.. when I saw your interest in something small and nimble .. then thought..yes.. maybe even a single stage too

If I could get a single spreadsheet from each vendor listing all their specs for all their models in this kind of format I could do ALL the above and much more
If anyone knows how to make that happen (maybe *[email protected]*) (maybe a lurker) I'd be very happy indeed


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

*Looking for fact-check volunteers
*
If you think this has value and would like to help me fact-check I have a small easy task for you

There is a very real possibility I just *destroyed *my data with a few unfortunate clicks in excel
I'm not using version control so I may have just lost about 40 hours of effort (which explains the timestamps on a lot of my posts)

The task is simply this... if I could get 33 volunteers I could allocate one model to each of you and ask you to check that model the next time I post the database
Then keep those numbers handy and have a quick glance at that model each time a new version comes out or whenever I send a post saying "fact-check now please"

That would help enormously.
Any takers? 

If there are any takers .. I'll make a list and put a fact-checker column into the database so you can see who you are and which model I'm asking you to check.
You'd only need to look up the model once with the vendor and then squirrel those numbers away for re-use later
If so please "Send me a PM titled "Fact Checker - Your Username"


----------



## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*TORO Runs a 12 inch dia impeller, the old school TOROS used a 14 inch impeller.*


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *TORO Runs a 12 inch dia impeller, the old school TOROS used a 14 inch impeller.*


Thanks.. that was my guess and that's why I initially put it in there... then I worried about the "Keep it Honest" thing and backed it out 

So all we need is an answer from Robert for Honda and we're done on that column for the USA at least. (BTW I'm working that via PM.. he's checking for us)
*If any Yamaha folks know too.. please let us know.. the Canadian members might like to see that.
*
I'm relying on your data.. no one can verify this for themselves from the websites.... so it's not strictly "science" but I'll go with it and leave them *in italics* to show that the data is currently unable to be verified from the sites I'm using to mine the data

The risk of course is that someone slipped you $3 to say that and it's actually 15" and no-one noticed ;-)

*If someone is familiar with any of the placeholder columns for some or all brands/models I'd love to hear.*

I would use a similar approach for * Starter,Fuel,Drive *
Continually running through 30-something websites is boring and time-consuming... that's one of the motivations for this database 

Thanks for caring


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Aimed at newbies

If you are worried about a SPEC like impeller diameter.. you need to know WHY you care

_*We should be guided by theory, not by numbers. 
*
Quote from: https://blog.deming.org/w-edwards-deming-quotes/large-list-of-quotes-by-w-edwards-deming/
_
A slow-rotating big impeller is no better than a fast-rotating small impeller

For that column to have significant meaning it would need to be combined with RPM to deduce any value judgement

I think I just found two more potential columns ImpellerDiameter ImpellerRPM -> gives Tangential Velocity-> which possibly indicates a potential "CLOG" metric
But then you need to factor in the diameter of the exit hole and any obstructions and it becomes a mess

Therefore I will add the diameters but NOT traffic signal them..... if you implicitly do that in your brain.... make sure you know why or you may be misled... by your "gut feel".... or even by Marketing. We already saw that (perhaps) on the cross plots earlier.

Some specs are super-useful others are perhaps "indicators" at best. 
I picked the main two because I don't think there's much doubt on those ( Throw & Tons/hr )

If you care about Throw... look at Throw.... the rpm stuff is potentially implied by Throw... assuming that the Throw spec is actually meaningful at all. 
I talked about that earlier when I was questioning our assumptions about what a SPEC really is.

I get suspicious when I see round numbers in Specs.... but not so with Prices ;-)


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

stuart80112 said:


> <snip>
> If you care about Throw... look at Throw.... the rpm stuff is potentially implied by Throw... assuming that the Throw spec is actually meaningful at all.
> I talked about that earlier when I was questioning our assumptions about what a SPEC really is.
> I get suspicious when I see round numbers in Specs.... but not so with Prices ;-)


Let me use my own logic and rephrase..

_If you care about Throw... look at Throw specs
_
If you care about Horsepower... look at the HP specs 
If you care about emissions.. look at the Volkswagen emission specs. 

I've already expressed concerns about Throw because they are round numbers and have a (*Caveat) next to them.
We will soon have the impeller diameters and I could do a quick calculation using RPM to come up with that Tangential Velocity and see what I see.
45 degree chute angle sounds like a good bet.

*Does anyone know the Impeller RPMs for some or all the models in the database?
Does anyone know how to get there from Engine RPMS and pulley ratios and is willing to try figure out those impeller RPMs?*

Jim works in Marketing and is presented with specs from the Engineering and Testing department Throw is *37.455 (+/- 0.003) *feet
He looks for competitor analysis because that's what MBAs do - sounds reasonable. His competitor is showing *40 feet.*
Will he round to the nearest "pretty number" to get the closest number (factor of 5) ... authentically that would be *35 feet.*
His annual bonus is based on units sold... so too is everyone else in the company.
Jim is paid to capture brand-loyalty and stimulate sales... that's his job. 
He needs his job - He needs his bonus - His child needs surgery.. no insurance.... what's a guy to do?

That little (*Caveat) next to Throw is pretty handy.

I'm confused by my second image.. shouldn't they all point the same way?

Predicting throw for a given velocity for a given launch angle is...
Parabolic Trajectory Here: https://www.google.com/search?q=parabolic+trajectory+equations&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


----------



## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

*Hello Newbies *

I just heard a PM telling me you cannot see some links until you have posted 10 times.

_<snip>.. I have to wait to hit 10 posts to view the images in the sig but .. <snip>
_
Please post on the admin thread - if true, that is not helping you. 
They should be able to confirm that or explain for others too.


----------



## NewLaw83 (Oct 18, 2017)

Hello all!

2nd post woot! woot! 

Man, I really wish this was around last year! It would have saved me so much time researching for snowblowers! Either way, I think this is great to have the data consolidated like this. Being able to see it by price (Canadian and US $), Engine CC, weight, etc. is a big help especially between multiple manufactures! Great for people like myself who are looking to own their first snowblower or maybe you need a new one after so many years

Obviously, it's a work in progress but so far so good!

Will these data sheets be saved by year? So in a few years, someone is looking at a model that came out this year they can go back to these sheets to see what the specs and prices are?

Thanks again, Stuart! You rock for doing this!


----------

