# Honda HS928 Operation of transmission?



## BeerZman

Hello:

I recently picked up a new Honda HS928 hydrostatic snowblower....
A very nice machine I must say!

My question is is that I was wondering when operating and switching back and forth from going forward to reverse do you have to "release" the drive clutch handle then change the direction stick and then re-engage the clutch drive? The salesperson seemed to say you could adjust the drive on the fly but maybe he was just talking about the speed....

Because *it says in the manual *when changing "direction" you should let go of the drive clutch lever...change direction and then re-engage? I just don't want to damage the transmission doing the wrong thing...Although I am hoping that you can change direction keeping the clutch handles engaged because you will be going back and forth a lot in direction changes as the machine is heavy and you won't be dragging it...that and when the hydro trans is engaged it doesn't free roll ...

Thanks for letting me know how you are supposed to operate this correctly!

BeerZ


----------



## bwdbrn1

Hi BeerZman. Welcome to the forum. Congrats on your new Honda. They're great machines. 

If I read what you quoted out of the manual right, you can't just go from forward to reverse without first letting that handle go. I think you're right about the salesman talking about changing speed on the fly, that's the great thing about hydro trannys. You might want to call your dealer back and ask for clarification.

Let us know how you like your HS928 as the winter goes on.


----------



## BeerZman

I talked to the Dealer and he said you can go from forward to reverse and back and forth with the clutches engaged...It doesn't quite say that in the manual...Although one time I was not quite in neutral and when I engaged the clutch for the purpose of warming up the transmission oil (manual recomends) the blower creeped forward and as I feathered it back I went into reverse and it was seemless with no clank or anything...Like a knife threw butter LOL

Will tell you how it goes on the blower...Just getting some good solid iron skid shoes made for it now from a friend who works in a laser shop 
No snow so far to report....

BeerZ


----------



## HCBPH

*Skids*



BeerZman said:


> Will tell you how it goes on the blower...Just getting some good solid iron skid shoes made for it now from a friend who works in a laser shop
> No snow so far to report....
> BeerZ


Welcome to the forum.
If you haven't gone too far on your skids yet, check out one of our sponsors - Snowblowerskids.com
I can tell you I have a set on my main blower and I've put some on a couple of friends blowers so far. They are well thought out and made, and I doubt if you have to pay to have some made you'll do better pricewise.

By the way, sounds like you have a nice machine there. Let us know how it works out for you.

Paul


----------



## BeerZman

*Honda Canadas Response to my question*

Thanks for the replies from the forum...Here is HONDA Canadas resonse to me personally....

Thank you for contacting Honda Canada.

We wish to inform you we recommend to follow the directions as indicated in the owner's manual to prevent any premature wear and/ or damages to the transmission of your Honda HS928 Hydrostatic snowblower. Please note, we have documented and forwarded your comments in regards of the operating the unit without disengaging the drive clutch to the appropriate department for their information and future consideration.

And that's that! Funny how 2 different dealeships here both said you shift from forward to reverse without disingaging.... I think I'll do what the factory says


----------



## detdrbuzzard

you should have gone back to the dealer and have them demo what they told you using their machine


----------



## bwdbrn1

Ya' might want to document everything that's been said and written. Just sayn'.

But I agree, might just want to follow the instructions that came straight from the Honda folks.


----------



## jfmtnbiker

You ask an excellent question regarding the disengagement of the clutch prior to changing directions. The best way to understand the hydrostatic clutch on a Honda snowblower is to think of a hydrostatic tractor with a foot pedal. When you press the foot pedal forward, the tractor moves forward. The further you press the pedal, the faster the tractor goes forward. If you press the pedal with your heel, you are controlling the reverse speed. Hydrostatic lawn and garden tractors do not even have a drive clutch. Essentially, not moving the pedal in either direction is neutral.

For this reason, it is actually best to operate your Honda snowblower by starting out in neutral and moving the lever forward or backward as desired. This is because keeping the lever in a far foward position and then engaging the clutch creates sudden and excessive strain on the gear. In fact, if you do this, you will notice the snowblower almost "jumps" foward or "jerks" at the start. However, if you start out in neutral, you have a smooth start in forward or reverse. It is impossible to start a hydrostatic tractor in full speed for this reason. It would create too much strain on the drive gear.

If you are wondering, the Honda website actually states:


*Honda’s Exclusive Hydrostatic Transmissions*


Honda’s HS724, 928, and 1332 snowblowers offer the convenience of Honda’s hydrostatic transmission. 

Easy to control 
A single lever accurately adjusts ground speed without affecting the auger rotation speed. Push forward to move ahead; pull back to go in reverse. And adjustments to forward and reverse speed can be made with one hand, quickly and easily.
Infinite variability – easy to find the right speed for every snow condition
Need to slow down as you make a turn? Want to go just a hair faster? The hydrostatic transmission can accommodate your personal preferences, as well as the changing conditions outdoors.* Pick a speed and go. Change on the fly. You set the pace, and your Honda snowblower will do the work for you.*
Smooth and predictable speed transitions. 
There’s no gears, so no shifting is necessary. The hydrostatic transmission provides ultimate control and improved safety.
Virtually maintenance free
Honda’s hydrostatic transmission is commercial grade, built to withstand years of use. And unlike some transmissions used by competitive units, the hydrostatic transmission is virtually maintenance free. 
The owners manual for Honda states that you should intially start in Neutral to warm up the hydrostatic fluid. 

I hope this helps.


----------



## jfmtnbiker

I did double-check the manual online for you. The manual states:

Operating tips for clearing hard or deep snow:

Reduce forward speed. If that is not sufficient, *use the shift lever* to clear snow with a back and forth motion.

So, basically Honda is encouraging you to use the shift lever for different directions without releasing the drive clutch in between direction changes.


----------



## BeerZman

That was some good advice and info on how the hydro transmission works...Funny they are saying to go back and forth with the "shift" lever to move lots of snow when in the same manual it says to change direction you should disengage the clutch first.....and of course what HONDA wrote to me personally!

I think to hit all the bases if I change direction what I could do is disengage the clutch...then change direction and engage in LOW speed area and ramp up then so as not to jerk it to a start....However to go back and forth this will be pretty slow and tedious.....

I haven't got to use my new HS928 yet as I have been working and there hasn't been much snow...I have however started to collect spare parts and things like that...I like to have PARTS on hand so when you need one you just change it out right away and keep on blowing...I have found that the HONDA dealership here stocks basically nothing _and could care less_..>You go in and order it and in a week or more it may show up but that is about it.....

Will type the whole expriance so far when I have more time! It is a GREAT machine and I will get stocked up on spare parts and so on in good time...I already got a battery tender for the summer complete 
with "dissulfate action " LOL 

Like I say I'll write the whole story out sometime later....

Ron


----------



## Apple Guy

BeerZ, I have a 3 year old 928W and I use the tranny with leaving it fully engaged to go forward and reverse. Because I think Honda designed the tranny engagement wrong. Yes, I do think they designed it wrong. I am aware of pounding on the main tranny pin, so I start out at very close to neutral. But when I reverse I pull back from forward speed and go directly and smoothly into reverse and then back again to forward. There are some people on the net with hydro trans that break the main internal drive pin from rough trans engagement. They took the pin out by Honda's rough trans engagement if at any speed above 10% setting. Honda SHOULD of added a relief valve that would gradually pour on the power in 2 seconds to stop the hard engagement. The valve would go from 0% flow to 100% flow in 2 seconds, fixing the rough engagement issue. I tried 3 different Honda's at the dealer they all had the hard engagement when at your normal running speed. My speed is not high either, since I have medium drifting most of the time. A relief valve would fix this problem and highly "refine" the feel and use of this hydro trans. What.......a $10 relief valve to fix this issue. Yes, I engage the lever very slowly too, no need to even comment on that. I even brought this up to a family friend who works at Toro as an engineer and he thinks it needs a valve too. If he would of designed this for Toro and he had to use this Tufftorq brand of tranny he would add a valve to refine the power delivery if he had an option to do so with their design. I don't care what Honda says about using their tranny. If I had to use it the way they want you to use it I would sell it. I have 2 short drives that have specific places to put the snow and I do many forward and reverse change overs on each driveway. .


----------



## fake_usa

Apple Guy said:


> BeerZ, I have a 3 year old 928W and I use the tranny with leaving it fully engaged to go forward and reverse. Because I think Honda designed the tranny engagement wrong. Yes, I do think they designed it wrong. I am aware of pounding on the main tranny pin, so I start out at very close to neutral. But when I reverse I pull back from forward speed and go directly and smoothly into reverse and then back again to forward. There are some people on the net with hydro trans that break the main internal drive pin from rough trans engagement. They took the pin out by Honda's rough trans engagement if at any speed above 10% setting. Honda SHOULD of added a relief valve that would gradually pour on the power in 2 seconds to stop the hard engagement. The valve would go from 0% flow to 100% flow in 2 seconds, fixing the rough engagement issue. I tried 3 different Honda's at the dealer they all had the hard engagement when at your normal running speed. My speed is not high either, since I have medium drifting most of the time. A relief valve would fix this problem and highly "refine" the feel and use of this hydro trans. What.......a $10 relief valve to fix this issue. Yes, I engage the lever very slowly too, no need to even comment on that. I even brought this up to a family friend who works at Toro as an engineer and he thinks it needs a valve too. If he would of designed this for Toro and he had to use this Tufftorq brand of tranny he would add a valve to refine the power delivery if he had an option to do so with their design. I don't care what Honda says about using their tranny. If I had to use it the way they want you to use it I would sell it. I have 2 short drives that have specific places to put the snow and I do many forward and reverse change overs on each driveway. .


I agree with you 100%, the engagement of the trans seems very hard. At high forward speed the bucket pops a wheelie.


----------



## S_trangeBrew

jfmtnbiker said:


> I did double-check the manual online for you. The manual states:
> 
> Operating tips for clearing hard or deep snow:
> 
> Reduce forward speed. If that is not sufficient, *use the shift lever* to clear snow with a back and forth motion.
> 
> So, basically Honda is encouraging you to use the shift lever for different directions without releasing the drive clutch in between direction changes.



This. I'm gonna keep the drive engaged full throttle on my HSS1332ATD and move forward and backward like I have been. Zero worries about it harming the transmission. I don't think Honda would design something that would be harmed from something like this.

No way I'm disengaging the drive every time I need to put it in reverse. I didn't pay good money for hydrostatic to be inconvenienced. Anyway, if my POS hydrostactic transmission Murray lawn tractor didn't need the drive disengaged to switch between forward and reverse, this doesn't either.


----------



## BWC

fake_usa said:


> I agree with you 100%, the engagement of the trans seems very hard. At high forward speed the bucket pops a wheelie.


X2. I start out with it in neutral, engage clutch and then either go forward or back. When I come to a stop I pull back to neutral and release clutch lever. There is too much "jump" if you do it the other way. It couldn't have done much damage over the years as it is in it's 26th winter this year and still going strong.


----------



## fake_usa

I totally get that method but it's a little cumbersome since the drive speed control is on the left side of the handle bars but you have to then control it with your right hand. This also makes controlling the machine with only one hand on a grip, especially if you’re rowing the machine back and forth a lot. If the drive speed control was on the right side of the handle bars it would make a little more sense to operate the machine this way since your right hand would be close to the speed control and handle grip and arm not crossed in front of you.

If you set speed then squeeze the clutch both hands are on the handle grips while the machine is in motion. To go into reverse you’d release your left hand, pull the speed control lever to reverse and then re-squeeze the clutch. Both hands are then again on the bars. I feel like this method is the way the operations were intended since the drive speed control is on the left next to the left handle grip. I do feel operating the machine this way puts way more strain/abuse on the drivetrain.​


----------



## mobiledynamics

I found this video interesting on the operator uses the Hydro....Pretty much never lets it idle off Drive


----------



## ZOMGVTEK

I don't see why it would be an issue to change speed or direction while the handle is down. The thing can really shock the driveline if you hit the handle while the speed is high, so I would avoid that, but otherwise it shouldn't matter how you use it.

Personally, I hold the drive lever down most of the time, and row it between forwards and reverse when doing tight areas. I generally try to slow down a bit when passing through neutral and then accelerate back up to reverse or forwards, just to minimize the shock. It's probably still far easier on the driveline if you slam the stick from end to end, than it is to engage the lever with the speed full forward.

If I have to let off the lever to change direction, the hydro has such minimal advantage over a typical friction disc system. I really doubt most people put this much thought into it, it lets them change speed while moving, and most of these blowers last a long time even in the hands of the average person. The only time I really let off is when I want to stop the auger thats locked on.


----------



## AesonVirus

I'm not overly worried about changing directions without coming off the traction control as long as I change speeds and directions slowly.

With my track machine, I spend more time tilting up to go in reverse and then back down for forward, preventing a snow plow effect while in reverse.
With my wheeled machine, it was easy to toss around by just pushing down and twirling the machine... but I was tired afterwards.

The new tracked model, I'm not wearing myself out but I seem to spend much more time outside running the machine than I did with the wheeled machine.


----------



## Apple Guy

I use mine that way too. I just slowly transition from rev to forward and forward to rev. As long as you don't put a high shock load on the crappy little pin in the right side gear unit you are fine. I also start out mostly like BWC does too.


----------



## cprstn54

BeerZman said:


> Hello:
> My question is is that I was wondering when operating and switching back and forth from going forward to reverse do you have to "release" the drive clutch handle then change the direction stick and then re-engage the clutch drive?
> BeerZ


I routinely go quickly from full forward to full reverse at full throttle when I am battering my way through the dense snow berm that the municipal plow leaves at the end of my driveway. The auger (more likely the scraper) will not bite if slowly pushed into the berm; I have to get up some momentum. As soon as the small "bite" is thrown, I full reverse for a foot or two and re-bite in full forward. All engagements are smooth. I do get a little track skidding at each end of the travel because I am on icy pavement.

Been doing it this way for at lest ten years and no problems, including no shear pins breaking during that operation.

Ken C


----------



## jrom

In agreement with everybody. I've always started out from neutral pretty evenly, but at the EOD I've gone back and forth on the fly for over 24 years.

About 4 years ago while going back and forth, I broke one of the drive clutch springs (the engagement spring, not the return spring) - snapped off right before the curve on the bottom side which then shredded the drive belt and of course left me dead in the water.

After that, I'm not as quick in my back and forth speed.


----------



## groomerz

Really honda should have swapped the speed direction lever with the chute height lever. It is awkward to cross reach with your right hand to the left speed control.


----------



## DonKelly

I can't get my new Honda 928 to engage forward or reverse. It did work for 15 - 20 minutes. Engine runs smoothly, auger works.


----------

