# Troy-Bilt/MTD not start - gas in the oil



## shilobetto (Dec 7, 2019)

Hello all. 
I have a Troy-Bilt Storm 2410 built in 2009. Model 31AM62N2766. MTD engine. 
Last year it started stalling when under load (actually throwing snow). Mechanic that sold it to me said the plug was fouled and put a new one in. Still had the same problem, and he said best to put a in new carb in the fall (it's non-adjustable). 

Fast forward to this fall, I got inspired and the mechanic retired, so I proceeded to put in a new carb. An expensive one from MTD. That was in September and I thought I'd be ready to go. But the 1st time out it was still stalling out when throwing snow, and sometimes just when I engaged the auger. It still started with one pull of the rope just like new. Just had the problem under load.


So you know, I'm slightly mechanically inclined, but this is the 1st snowblower I've worked on so I've been learning as i go. 


Here's what I've done since:
Adjusted valve lash - triple checked to make sure it's good
Checked compression - it's 62. Spec is 55-80
Checked the breather lines - I think they're ok but don't know about any PCV valve
It has spark


Sadly, it usually won't start at all now. It might sputter and eventually go, but even then it will stall suddenly after a few minutes. 
I noticed the plug was wet with gas and *the oil has gas in it. Can smell it at the fill tube, the level's suddenly high and it's noticeably thin consistency. *

That brings me to the forum today. Wondering if there was something I needed to do with the new carb? I don't know what to do next. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Do not run that engine … gas is getting into the oil, and that is never good … I would assume maybe with the bad carb it was seeping in all summer ….


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

gas in the oil usually means the float or needle has stuck allowing fuel to flow freely into the engine. you will likely need a new spark plug and an oil change but you may want to figure out which carb caused the issue. do you have the original carb? i would wonder if the main jet in the original carb may have been different than the other 2.


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## shilobetto (Dec 7, 2019)

Yes I have the original carb. (I edited my post to clarify that I only replaced the carb once. )


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## shilobetto (Dec 7, 2019)

crazzywolfie said:


> gas in the oil usually means the float or needle has stuck allowing fuel to flow freely into the engine. you will likely need a new spark plug and an oil change but you may want to figure out which carb caused the issue. do you have the original carb? i would wonder if the main jet in the original carb may have been different than the other 2.


It has to be the new carb since I changed the oil after I put the new one in. It is the right carb for the engine; the same as the original. 
I ran it out of gas at the end of last season so it couldn't have seeped in over the summer. Only use fresh premium, no ethanol.

Yesterday I checked the new carb float and it looked fine and moved easily. I didn't take anything apart to look at the jets. 
I then emptied the tank and checked the fuel line and filter for any loose material and changed the oil. 

Still no start. 

*Could this indicate a problem with the piston rings? * It went from lack of power last winter, to stalling and hard to start this year, to won't run at all now along with the gas in the oil. It has never burned or lost oil that I noticed.


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## vstorm (Dec 9, 2019)

It sounds like it's time for a compression test. If you don't have a gauge, Autozone, Advance Auto, etc have loaners. You can test for cracked or broken rings, burned valves and excessive carbon build-up.

Was the engine exhaust smoking the last time it ran?

I see your earlier post where you checked the compression. Did you do the bleed down test? Did you notice any gauge flutter?


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

.
Always check the oil before attempting to start the machine folks. 
.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

so i would guess the new carb either has the float or needle sticking or not sealing if changed the oil when you changed the carb. did you replace the plug? have you checked the valve lash? would maybe try this first. if the carb flooded the engine then there is a very good chance the plug is bad. i don't know why but usually when you soak a plug in gasoline they seem to go bad. the rings are likely fine. gas will always seep past the rings and into the crankcase if given enough time. i had to deal with a similar issue with my brother in laws snowblower a year or 2 ago. a carb clean and 2 oil changes late all was good. if this doesn't solve it then i would move onto checking for a broken flywheel key.


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## vstorm (Dec 9, 2019)

He adjusted the valve lash, replaced the fuel, oil, plug, carb and did a compression check. The machine has a spark so that should indicate that the flywheel is turning. Fuel will quickly seep into the crankcase if there is a cracked or broken ring and repeated attempts to start the engine will result in the fuel being forced into the crankcase past the piston as it rises on the compression stroke. The engine may not smoke all that much and the compression will still appear to be good but will fail a timed leak-down test. It may be time for a thorough compression test unless that has already been done.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i missed that part but he changed the oil when he changed the carb so the new carb still likely flooded out the plug that is in it so it would likely be a good idea to replace it before looking at the harder to fix things. a flywheel can turn and make spark even with a broken flywheel key.


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## shilobetto (Dec 7, 2019)

Is the bleed down test what MTD calls a leak down test? I don't have the equipment for that one, so no I did not. 

On the compression test I pulled the rope 4 times and saw a steady reading in the low 60s. I thought that was a little low (55-80 is normal) so I did the electric starter for a few seconds and it kept going to over 100. That may have been the wrong thing to do but I stopped right away!


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## shilobetto (Dec 7, 2019)

Only saw white smoke when it first started and was sputtering. On the rare occasion that it ran there was no smoke.


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## shilobetto (Dec 7, 2019)

crazzywolfie said:


> i missed that part but he changed the oil when he changed the carb so the new carb still likely flooded out the plug that is in it so it would likely be a good idea to replace it before looking at the harder to fix things. a flywheel can turn and make spark even with a broken flywheel key.


Should I put the old carb back in at this point, to see if it will start?

Also, the new plug is a compatible E3. Is that a good idea?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

a leakdown test should tell you what shape the rings and valve seals are in. i personally would not consider a wasting money on a e3 plug. has it been changed since you changed the carb? if it was replaced before the engine was flooded with gas it might need to be replaced. you may want to make sure the old carb is clean before you put it back on. the white smoke is from the gas in the oil. gas in the oil will make an engine smoke a lot. 100psi is fine as far as compression goes. i would assume when you used the electric start it may have spun the engine quick enough to bypassed the compression release and pump up the compression to normal range.


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## vstorm (Dec 9, 2019)

Why just change it or anything? Expensive way to repair a machine. There are definite troubleshooting steps to take before shotgunning anything. He did a compression check. That should entail turning the engine over seven or eight times until sure that pressure has stabilized. Next would be a leak down test to determine if there is a slow loss of pressure. If there is, wherever it's going it's taking the liquid part of the fuel with it. If the carb is leaking bad enough to flood the engine that quickly, I think he would have seen that in action. When carbs overflow, they run down the outside of the machine more than the inside. The intake valve has to be open for the engine to flood that way. He did all the first steps but did he do a complete compression test? If he didn't already, it's time to revisit the compression on the old engine. The rings don't have to be worn out to cause problems, only cracked or broken. The engine may not blow a lot of smoke or lose a lot of compression while turning by hand. it's time to dig a little deeper. Perform a leak-down test and determine if the rings or the valves are leaking. Read about the test online and watch for the symptoms of a bad valve or seal as opposed to a bad ring or piston.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

and with a vehicle stuff like that tells you a lot but when it comes to small 4 stroke engines a compression test may or may not be accurate because of the compression release making the engine easier to be pulled over. plus it is not like you can really test a spark plug to know it is working in the engine under compression. i have dealt with more than my share of engine that have had their crankcase flooded with gas. on the older Tecumseh you never see it because the carb is so low but on the newer honda knock offs you see it a lot more often.


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## shilobetto (Dec 7, 2019)

crazzywolfie said:


> a leakdown test should tell you what shape the rings and valve seals are in. i personally would not consider a wasting money on a e3 plug. has it been changed since you changed the carb? if it was replaced before the engine was flooded with gas it might need to be replaced. you may want to make sure the old carb is clean before you put it back on. the white smoke is from the gas in the oil. gas in the oil will make an engine smoke a lot. 100psi is fine as far as compression goes. i would assume when you used the electric start it may have spun the engine quick enough to bypassed the compression release and pump up the compression to normal range.


Thanks crazzywolfie.
I've tried the both new and older plugs. Cleaned any oil off when removed.
I thought that as well about the compression. 
*
Next week I'll be taking it to a local retired mechanic that a friend recommended and see about doing a leak down test. *

Are we not concerned about the ignition system at this point?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

could maybe have a flywheel key fail. i just usually try to go after the simpler things first since carbs or bad plugs are a lot more common especially if you just had the engine flooded out. i don't know why but almost seems like when engines flood like yours did the plug always seems to go bad. sometimes making the gap smaller will get it running but usually if it works it means you need a new plug.


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## shilobetto (Dec 7, 2019)

*Problem Solved - Here's What it Was*

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge. This is an excellent forum and great resource.

So, after doing what I could to find the no-start problem a friend hooked me up with a local retired mechanic who works on these. He was a bit stumped too, checked the flywheel key but it looked good. Then he looked more closely at the "spark". It would be good at times, then stop. 

He eventually noticed that there was a short in the sparkplug wire. Underneath the metal boot cover at the end, the wire had broken inside the ceramic casing (or the ceramic casing had cracked which led to the wire breaking?)
It's all one piece so we had to replace the coil module for the fix.

I don't know for sure what caused the apparent gas in the oil. Maybe I flooded the **** out of it during all this. Maybe it was my imagination. 

I now have a new carb and ignition module and she starts like new on the 1st pull. 

Cheers!
Shilobetto


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Glad you got it resolved.

Many times it takes a hands on approach to find the issue.


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## Sweetczz (Feb 27, 2021)

shilobetto said:


> Yes I have the original carb. (I edited my post to clarify that I only replaced the carb once. )


Someone wants to sell me this same model. He rebuilt most everything. Does this blower easily blow up to a foot? Is it hard to push? Self propelling? I think my sidewalk is only 24" wide and this model is 21"? Are you happy with it when it works?


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