# Ariens 24 vs. Toro PowerMax 724 ?



## Spokaneman

This is my first post on this board. I'm turning to this community because of the great conversations I've been reading on this forum.

I live in Spokane, WA, and have been using a Yard Machine (MTD) single stage (Tecumseh engine) blower for several years. The MTD has been OK and dependable, but it has always been a bit wimpy for my application. I live on a hillside, and controlling the machine up and down the sidewalk in icy conditions has been a pain. Also, the heavy, wet snow we've been having in the last two years has clogged the throat of the machine every 10 feet. I'm now trying to step up to a two-stage machine and have been looking at two machines at Home Depot. I'd appreciate some advice.

Home Depot is selling an Ariens Compact 24" ($799.00) and a Toro PowerMax 724 OE 24" ($899). Both have the size and feature package that I'm looking for. I've been comparing them feature by feature, and I can't discern which would be the better machine. 

Is the Toro worth the additional $100?
How does the Ariens drive system, the Disc-O-Matic, compare to that of the Toro?
They both have a Briggs and Stratton 205 cc engine which, I understand from reading this forum, is made in China. Does this engine possess the quality of the older, Made-in-America predecessor?
The Home Depot specs indicate that the Ariens' recommended terrain is "Flat with Obstacles", while they state that the Toro's recommended terrain is "Sloped". Is there a real difference here, or is this just manufacturer hype?

I'd appreciate any comments specific to the questions above, as well as any other suggestions. Thanks


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## deadwood

#1, That specific model Toro is made in Mexico, the Ariens is in Brillion WI.

The Ariens actually has a 208cc engine in the newer serial number versions. This gets you 9.5ft/lb torque instead of 9 on the 205cc. So in that regard the Ariens is slightly more powerful.

Both models have the same size tire, so the traction wouldn't really be any different. In either case chains may be a good option for your situation.

Warranty - Ariens has a 3yr on the engine and machine, 5 years on the gearcase. Toro is 3 on machine and 2 on engine.

On a side note, there is an Ariens 920021 dealer only model that has all the same features, but bigger tires - 15 x 5 directional (more traction) and an Ariens AX engine instead of B&S. Still 208cc, 9.5 ft./lbs. torque and warranty service straight through Ariens. The nice kicker is that it is the same price --> $799.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

Ariens gets my vote!

All snow blowers now have Chinese made engines.


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## Brucebotti

deadwood said:


> #1, That specific model Toro is made in Mexico, the Ariens is in Brillion WI.
> 
> The Ariens actually has a 208cc engine in the newer serial number versions. This gets you 9.5ft/lb torque instead of 9 on the 205cc. So in that regard the Ariens is slightly more powerful.
> 
> Both models have the same size tire, so the traction wouldn't really be any different. In either case chains may be a good option for your situation.
> 
> Warranty - Ariens has a 3yr on the engine and machine, 5 years on the gearcase. Toro is 3 on machine and 2 on engine.
> 
> On a side note, there is an Ariens 920021 dealer only model that has all the same features, but bigger tires - 15 x 5 directional (more traction) and an Ariens AX engine instead of B&S. Still 208cc, 9.5 ft./lbs. torque and warranty service straight through Ariens. The nice kicker is that it is the same price --> $799.


Actually, Ariens has a promotion (until Nov 1st, I think), that gives you a full 5 year warranty on the entire machine, with the exception of the engine (3 yyear).
Bruce


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## GreatCanadian

My neighbor has the Ariens Compact 24. I have the Ariens Platinum 30. I absolutely love HIS machine !! He could buy almost 3 of his machines for the price of mine!! The 24 is a great machine.


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## Stevessss

Having sold both the Ariens and Toro for decades, I have seen shifts in both companies. The Ariens NEEDS the longer warranty on their gearbox, because of their history of eating them up. That's why they have shear bolts - to slow down that action. Yes, the gearbox has been re-designed, and the verdict is out as to whether this will last longer or not. 
But the Toro gearboxes, from what we have seen, have been quite bullet proof. They don't have shear bolts to break, and they don't break the gear boxes either. What gives? If you get something caught, you might make the belt squeal. So, let off on the trigger, shut it down, dislodge the trouble maker, and you are off and going again.

Regarding made in US made vs. other: Would not be surprised this year if all the engines are made in China, regardless of badging. Yup, the bigger Toro units are from Mexico, the smaller (at least some) are USA.

On the Ariens units, we have had to deal with weak drives, poor belt arrangements, auger chute adjustments to make stick work, wheel clickers that wont engage/disengage on cheap units, stiff hydro turning action, hydro drive chains that get thrown repeatedly, and the list goes on.
On the Toro.... None of that. 
My own unit is a Toro. Yep, plastic in front, and on dashboard. But it works and keeps working. I have item 4, shale, rocks from the lawn, broken blacktop from my neighbor, etc. all in my driveway. And I just keep going. (Got to be careful where I launch the stuff though). 
Yes, we still sell Ariens (for over 50 years), because as a dealer it's my bread and butter for repairs. But for my own money, it is in Toro.


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## moretorque05

Your post sure made me happy that I chose Toro. As a WI resident, I was leaning toward Ariens, but Toro was my choice.

Thanks!



Stevessss said:


> Having sold both the Ariens and Toro for decades, I have seen shifts in both companies. The Ariens NEEDS the longer warranty on their gearbox, because of their history of eating them up. That's why they have shear bolts - to slow down that action. Yes, the gearbox has been re-designed, and the verdict is out as to whether this will last longer or not.
> But the Toro gearboxes, from what we have seen, have been quite bullet proof. They don't have shear bolts to break, and they don't break the gear boxes either. What gives? If you get something caught, you might make the belt squeal. So, let off on the trigger, shut it down, dislodge the trouble maker, and you are off and going again.
> 
> Regarding made in US made vs. other: Would not be surprised this year if all the engines are made in China, regardless of badging. Yup, the bigger Toro units are from Mexico, the smaller (at least some) are USA.
> 
> On the Ariens units, we have had to deal with weak drives, poor belt arrangements, auger chute adjustments to make stick work, wheel clickers that wont engage/disengage on cheap units, stiff hydro turning action, hydro drive chains that get thrown repeatedly, and the list goes on.
> On the Toro.... None of that.
> My own unit is a Toro. Yep, plastic in front, and on dashboard. But it works and keeps working. I have item 4, shale, rocks from the lawn, broken blacktop from my neighbor, etc. all in my driveway. And I just keep going. (Got to be careful where I launch the stuff though).
> Yes, we still sell Ariens (for over 50 years), because as a dealer it's my bread and butter for repairs. But for my own money, it is in Toro.


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## sscotsman

IMO, when it comes to Ariens vs. Toro, its a "Ford vs. Chevy" thing..
both are very good, both have their fans..
both have an excellent reputation! for many decades..

Starting this year, 2014 model year, (machines going on sale in the Autumn of 2013)

1. All 2-stage snowblower engines are now made in China, on all snowblowers by all manufacturers.

2. All Toro 2-stage snowblowers are now made in Mexico.

Ariens snowblowers (everything except the engines) are still made in the USA.
The only remaining 100% made in the USA snowblowers, the snowblower itself and the engine,
are two Honda single-stage models.

Scot


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## sscotsman

Stevessss said:


> But the Toro gearboxes, from what we have seen, have been quite bullet proof. They don't have shear bolts to break, and they don't break the gear boxes either. What gives? If you get something caught, you might make the belt squeal. So, let off on the trigger, shut it down, dislodge the trouble maker, and you are off and going again.


Toro snowblowers do have shearbolts.
Go to the Toro website and look at photos, and the shear bolts are very clear..we discussed it here:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ssion/1507-did-we-get-screwed-toro-724-a.html

High-res photo of a current model:
http://www.perkinhomehardware.com/pwrmax38624.gif

Toro simply claims:

"The Heavy-Duty Auger Gearbox has special oversized hardened gears and shafts designed to withstand extreme stress, virtually eliminating the need for shear pins."

_virtually_ eliminating, not _completely_ eliminating! 
they still have the shear bolts..

"virtually eliminating" is just a marketing claim, nothing more.

Scot


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## 69ariens

After getting 32 inches last yr and I was out doing my plowing rt. I saw next door to a customer, there was a guy running a newer toro and it was eating the snow like nothing while other blowers were doing the job. They were not doing it as fast as the toro.


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## deadwood

sscotsman said:


> Toro snowblowers do have shearbolts.
> Go to the Toro website and look at photos, and the shear bolts are very clear..we discussed it here:
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ssion/1507-did-we-get-screwed-toro-724-a.html
> 
> High-res photo of a current model:
> http://www.perkinhomehardware.com/pwrmax38624.gif
> 
> Toro simply claims:
> 
> "The Heavy-Duty Auger Gearbox has special oversized hardened gears and shafts designed to withstand extreme stress, virtually eliminating the need for shear pins."
> 
> _virtually_ eliminating, not _completely_ eliminating!
> they still have the shear bolts..
> 
> "virtually eliminating" is just a marketing claim, nothing more.
> 
> Scot



Well said.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

69 Ariens,

That was quite the storm...I remember you worked like crazy hours straight....Right??? That was amazing snow for one storm in our area. Toro would like to hear about that testament I bet. Pretty Good.


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## Piedmont

sscotsman said:


> Toro snowblowers do have shearbolts.
> Go to the Toro website and look at photos, and the shear bolts are very clear..we discussed it here:
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ssion/1507-did-we-get-screwed-toro-724-a.html
> 
> High-res photo of a current model:
> http://www.perkinhomehardware.com/pwrmax38624.gif
> 
> Toro simply claims:
> 
> "The Heavy-Duty Auger Gearbox has special oversized hardened gears and shafts designed to withstand extreme stress, virtually eliminating the need for shear pins."
> 
> _virtually_ eliminating, not _completely_ eliminating!
> they still have the shear bolts..
> 
> "virtually eliminating" is just a marketing claim, nothing more.
> 
> Scot


I can tell you haven't used a Toro have ya  I started with an Ariens, then switched to Toro. My Dad has an Ariens and is too old to snow blow so I do his driveway he lives a few houses down. I live in New England.

Here's my thoughts and experiences with the two. My first ariens would blow shear bolts at least one a year... some years it would be two or three. When it snows and I blew a shear bolt I'd pray I had spares because heading to my local hardware store all the ariens shear bolts would be sold out causing me to shovel. That's one test you can do, next time your'e at the local hardware store after a snow storm go check to see if there's any Ariens shear bolts still in stock I think you'll find them empty which is a sure sign Ariens blows shear bolts and does it frequently/easily. While you're at it, go find some Toro shear bolts and the clerk will tell you Toro doesn't use them they don't have any. My Toro in 6 years has needed 0 shear bolts vs. at least 10 on my Ariens. I thought blowing shear bolts was par for the course until I got my Toro.

Here's some added fuel to that debate. I have a 3 year old son who left his wooden broom before a storm and I went over it with my Toro. I noticed the blowing stop and the engine bogging down. I tried several times re-engaging the auger then went out in front and his broom was jammed in it. After removing it, off I went no shear pin blown. I also store my blower in a shed, what happens is a shed is colder than a garage so after a storm when I pack the blower in the shed over time the snow melts and can freeze in the auger turning it into a block of ice. With my Toro I would start it up, engage the auger, engine would just bog down. I'd go look and see a block of ice around the auger. Chip it away a bit, try to engage the auger, engine would bog, chip more away. Rinse and repeat until the auger spun. The Ariens would blow shear pins, you just can't do that with Ariens. So, that's a good test for those with Ariens, throw a broom into the auger and jam it and see if you blow a shear pin. You can do that with a Toro, the most that ever happened to me was the engine bogs down. +3 Toro for not needing shear pins. 

As for features, the only reason I got a Toro was because I heard they throw further and that is absolutely true. My ariens couldn't throw heavy wet snow more than 4 feet it had to be dry snow (which doesn't seem to happen often in New England). What was happening is, not being able to throw it far it would only be able to go to the sides of the driveway. Over time with lots of storms that means constantly throwing snow just to the edges meaning a huge wall would form. We're talking over 7 feet tall, which is hard to see pulling out with my passenger cars. Some years, I couldn't blow anymore it wouldn't throw over the sides so I'd have to shovel them down a bit. Getting the Toro, it would throw snow 30+ feet and I'm talking into the air! Only the rare occasional wet storm would it throw only a few feet which I could live with. That was a welcome, unexpected change... no huge walls on the side of my driveway because the Toro throws much further. My fathers Ariens also has poor throwing, and his is 10hp mine is 8hp. He sprays his chute with silicone to try to reduce the friction and get as much throw out of it as he can and that helps, but I've found spraying the chute is good for about 1 storm. +3 Toro.

Next is features, the Toro has a fast 1st gear I wish it were slower. When there's a heavy storm it's too fast. However, it has a nice fast reverse when sometimes that's exactly what I want. The Ariens is the opposite, it has a really nice 1st gear that's slow for those thick storms but it's reverse is painfully too slow. Sometimes I just want to back it up and do another pass and think everytime I put the Ariens in reverse I may as well get myself a cup of coffee. Anyway, for gear ratios the Ariens has a better, slow, useful first the Toro is a bit too quick causing me to stop/pause every few feet on those really thick storms... but when you're doing the end of the driveway the fast reverse of the Toro is nice. +1 Ariens.

One thing my Ariens had (and my Dads) is tires with no grip. The Toro has tires with massive knubbies, the design of which grabs anything. I found the Toro without chains = Ariens with chains in terms of grip but it's nicer to put it away and pull it out without chains, and tires don't rust like chains. +1 Toro.

Now, this may be a class feature but with both blowers I can either lock the transmission so both tires get equal power (great for ends of driveways) or give power to 1 wheel making the other spin freely for very easy turns. My Toro, to lock and unlock the transaxle requires me to undo a pin, pull the wheel out, put pin into new hole. Now it can turn easily, but will struggle for grip at the end of the driveway. Rinse and repeat to put it back. My Dad's Ariens it's a simple matter of pulling and twisting a knob on the hub to unlock it, and pulling and twisting it back in to lock it. Takes all of 2 seconds. +2 Ariens.

So that's my $0.02 about the two.


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## Piedmont

One last difference. I've found Ariens want to "ride up" at the stuff at the end of the driveway (that is tend to go on top of, instead of through the plowed stuff at the end) more than Toro. It requires more passes/fixing having an Ariens and more back stress/pain from having to yank harder up on the handles to keep the front down and augers digging in. +1 Toro


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## Minnesnowman

I just bought a new Toro, this thread makes me feel even better about my purchase. Although I have yet to use it, I can personally validate Piedmont's hardware store claim. I went to home depot to get a couple of spare shear pins for my Toro, (hopefully I wont ever need them but want to have a couple on hand just in case). They dont carry any (only Ariens pins -perhaps this isnt the case all ALL home depots, but it was at the one I went to). I went to the hardware store and was able to get the pins for the Toro. In talking to the guy at the hardware store (who owns an Ariens) he loves his Ariens, but he did tell me he blows pins on his own machine fairly consistantly, and sees lots of Ariens owners coming in for pins, while hardly ever seeing them for Toro. I am hoping I will be able to report back to you all at the end of the winter that I didnt blow a pin... we'll see.


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## Runner50

How are these people blowing shear pins so easily?? If that truly is the case, I'd be looking at what they're doing & not the blower.


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## deadwood

Runner50 said:


> How are these people blowing shear pins so easily?? If that truly is the case, I'd be looking at what they're doing & not the blower.



No doubt, I run my Ariens on a 100' gravel driveway. 3 years, no shear bolts broke.


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## sscotsman

sscotsman said:


> Toro snowblowers do have shearbolts.
> Go to the Toro website and look at photos, and the shear bolts are very clear..we discussed it here:
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ssion/1507-did-we-get-screwed-toro-724-a.html
> 
> High-res photo of a current model:
> http://www.perkinhomehardware.com/pwrmax38624.gif
> 
> Toro simply claims:
> 
> "The Heavy-Duty Auger Gearbox has special oversized hardened gears and shafts designed to withstand extreme stress, virtually eliminating the need for shear pins."
> 
> _virtually_ eliminating, not _completely_ eliminating!
> they still have the shear bolts..
> 
> "virtually eliminating" is just a marketing claim, nothing more.
> 
> Scot





Piedmont said:


> I can tell you haven't used a Toro have ya


I dont see how anything I said has anything to do with using a Toro..or not using one..
I was simply talking about the facts of Toro's claims..dont need to use one for that! 

and im sure its not true that Ariens go through shear pins more than Toros..We have a few people's individual experiences,
but that is hardly scientific data..I can add mine to the list too:

I have been using a 1971 Ariens for 5 winters now, in the "Lake Effect" region of Western NY..
haven't broken one single shear pin yet.
My conclusion: "Ariens snowblowers *never* break shear pins!" 

Scot


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