# First post and feeling pretty stupid - how much trouble am I in?



## John O (Dec 17, 2017)

Hello,
Feeling pretty stupid...

I just tried to change the oil in my Ariens Deluxe and was having trouble loosening the plug. I used too much brute force on the wrench and ended up snapping off the drain tubs and a piece of metal right where the drain tube threads into the sump. Drain tube came off in my hands along with a piece of metal the size of a penny.... followed of course by the oil.

How screwed am I? Can this even be repaired/, maybe welded? Can you buy a new sump or is it all one piece? I think this is far beyond my mechanical ability and I will call the store where I bought it tomorrow but wondering how much $$ this is going to run me.

Thanks


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

oh oh......can you post a few pics ?


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## Prime (Jan 11, 2014)

If there is enough thread left to put a plug in the hole you may be able to seal that drain permanent. Most of these newer engines have a drain on each side. If there still some thread it could be an option. There would need to be thread all the way around at the back, clean it up good and put a permanent sealer on the plug.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

There is usually a lot of metal for the oil drain tube to thread into the sump of the engine. You may not be in that much trouble.

Drain tubes are often a two piece fitting. The one tube screws into the engine sump and a second cap or screw seals the end. In general you need to hold the tube with a wrench on the flats or a vice grip on round tubes while undoing the end cap or screw. 

In your case it sounds like you tried to unscrew the end cap but the tube was removed instead. Perhaps the tube just broke the last thread and pulled out the metal. So check the tube and remove any metal still attached without damaging the thread. So you can check the sump opening for threads and if the threads go all the way into the sump you can try screwing the tube back in the sump threads. You may still have the cap attached to the tube so look for flats to hold the tube and remove the cap. If the tube does not have flats then a vice grip or similar will hold the tube.

If the threads don't go all the way into the sump or are damaged then the sump can be fixed with an oversize tube matched to a new threaded hole. If you are not comfortable with that approach then better to have your service shop take a look and advise you on the best repair. 

It is very unlikely that you will need a new sump or engine. You will be fine.

Good luck.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Sometimes those oil drains are a PIA. When you fix it I'd recommend something like this:


















Not only does it make oil changes easier and less messy, the fact that it's on a 90* angle keeps you from having the problem of the long pipe from the engine coming out of the block. It's much easier to remove the cap, open the valve to drain the oil. 

The cap is just a precaution, I have had oil leak past the ball valve once, and resulted in a small drip, the cap will ensure it doesn't drip. Otherwise, I put a hose barb in and just run the hose barb to an oil catch container when you need it. Also, the cap after the ball valve ensures if it gets hit, and open by accident, it will prevent a mess.

I'm going to experiment with a quick connect, like on an air compressor, in place of the cap. That would really make it easy, and would eliminate the valve. 

Something else I learned, the use of CORRUGATED hose keeps oil from dripping instead of a smooth bore hose coming off the oil drain pipe. I found that interesting. All I had laying around one day was a 1.5 inch corrugated hose, I used it, and worked great. Less mess.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

If the penny sized piece is aluminum, it is part of the base of the engine. We will need to see a picture to see how it broke and what might be done to repair it. I'll bet there *might* be enough left to put a pipe plug in the hole and slather the area missing with epoxy. If you can get that side of the engine sealed back up, you can install a drain on the other side of the engine. 

Of course, the store isn't going recommend a money saving repair like epoxy. They are probably going to recommend replacement.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

O John . . . :welcome:

It does not sound good . . . just trying to imagine how all this happened. Do post some pictures of the oil drain and the affected area of the engine.

At least you accomplished your initial objective of draining the oil :surprise:


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Take a vise grips and try to get the rest of it oot. then stick a Drain- Zit in there and you will never have to go through that nightmare ever again.k:k:k:k:k:*


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

The 'sump' is the engine crankcase.

Just looking at some pictures of the drain tube configuration on the Ariens (which is typical of most machines) . . . it sounds like you lifted the tube with the wrench rather than turning the drain plug, which fractured the crankcase base where the tube threads in.

I am not sure a dealer would have a good solution for this issue.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Sure he would... he'd just haul out the scale for you to measure your dollars on.

OP we need pictures.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

Regardless of how you cut it . . . . it's going to be a problem.

I'm lucky in that I have a local guy who does aluminum and magnesium welding, and who has fixed things like that for me in the past.

I might first try something like JB Weld or the Epoxy; but if that failed, I'd remove the Sump and have my Welder Friend add stock to the drain hole and re-tap it to the correct size.

My cost (after I had removed and cleaned the Sump) would probably be about $40.00; and that would be getting off easy.


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## John O (Dec 17, 2017)

*Update - with some pics*

Thanks everyone for all the responses and suggestions .... very much appreciated

So, I may have dodged the bullet this time. It looks like I snapped off half of the last 3 or so threads where the tube joins the block/sump. But as someone posted there is quite a bit of thread/metal there so I was able to thread the tube back in and it looks to be tight - added new oil, ran it for a while and no apparent leaks. Fingers crossed it stays.

I thought I had a good hold on the tube when I was removing the plug but apparently not. I was given this snowblower from a family member so I don't know the history other than it is just a few years old but whoever put on the plug the last time used some kind of blue sealant. I could not wrench it off even when the tube was off the machine - had to use a plumbing torch to heat it up.

The pics show the piece that came off. I was not able to get a good pic of where the tube connects to the sump but will try and get one in daylight. Would it be worth reinforcing this with JB Weld or something like it?


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## vmax29 (Oct 19, 2017)

I think the epoxy might be the right way to go with that. PC-7 would work after a good cleaning to remove any oil. You can drill it and tap it once it is cured. Then that valve set up or the Drainzit and it will never put stress on the repair.


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## John O (Dec 17, 2017)

Hello,
Thanks for all of the responses.
It looks like I may have dodged the bullet here as there was enough thread remaining for the drain tube to bite on. Replaced the oil, ran it for a while, and no apparent leaks.

Here is a pic of the piece that I snapped off - about two or three threads deep.

One thing I noticed is that even after removing the tube I had a heck of a time removing the screw on plug - there was some blue pipe sealant on there and I had to use heat to get it off.


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## Prime (Jan 11, 2014)

Probably be OK. I think I would have applied epoxy to it as well just to be sure. Yes you got lucky for sure.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

That's good news. Did you put Teflon on the threads? Anyway, this is why I put a 90* bend in it, when you want to drain it, it doesn't turn the pipe out of the block. I'd recommend it, it makes oil changes easier, especially if you throw a ball valve on it. Changing oil is the life blood of the engine. I do it often, I don't wait for 20 hours.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@jsup

Real nice setup ... I just use the straight pipe with the cap.

Note: On the 99.00 Predator I had to order an aluminum 10 mm male thread by female pipe adapter in order to extend beyond the frame for easy drainage.

Like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pipe-1-4-N...apter-Fitting-Oil-Pressure-N-6L-/201765011596


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

oneacer said:


> @jsup
> 
> Real nice setup ... I just use the straight pipe with the cap.
> 
> ...


I've been doing it to my power equipment for years. Just makes it so much easier to do what otherwise could be a messy job..

In the case where there's an outlet and you have to take the tire off, I run it 90 Degrees to the back of the machine. 

I don't know why they make it such a PIA to change the oil. No matter what you do, without modification it's messy. 

















By doing this you change the direction of rotation to loosen the cap off the oil drain, never having to worry about the pipe in the crankcase coming loose.


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## FullThrottle (Apr 7, 2017)

I sure like this setup,I have to place a pan on the Honda tracks to keep oil from getting on to it.Hopefully I can add this mod. to mine. it sure would make life easier than having a mess over everything.





jsup said:


> I've been doing it to my power equipment for years. Just makes it so much easier to do what otherwise could be a messy job..
> 
> In the case where there's an outlet and you have to take the tire off, I run it 90 Degrees to the back of the machine.
> 
> ...


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

agreed its a stupid design, but it gives me a reason to take off wheel and apply anti seize onto shaft. um, i "should" also do same to the other tire/axle


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

missileman said:


> I sure like this setup,I have to place a pan on the Honda tracks to keep oil from getting on to it.Hopefully I can had this mod. it sure would make life easier than having a mess over everything.


Taking the cap off this brand new machine, it was TIGHT. I had to put a vice grip on the pipe coming out of the machine, and use my biggest 1/2 inch breaker bar to get the cap off. It was VERY TIGHT and started coming out of the block. That's why I do it, plus it's neater.

This way, I never have to put stress on the pipe that goes into the block, risking striping, leaking, etc.. It never moves, and quite frankly avoids issues like the one that started this thread. Cost me $17 in Home Depot for the valve, corner, and extra pipe. I used brass, but galvanized works too and is cheaper. I wasn't able to find galvanized in my Home Despot.

My only 2 cents...there's three kinds of right angle, two female sides (regular), one female and male end (street elbow) and a brass block, like I used there. Depending on the set up this is the most critical part, and the valve can go on either the horizontal, or vertical.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

vinnycom said:


> agreed its a stupid design, but it gives me a reason to take off wheel and apply anti seize onto shaft. um, i "should" also do same to the other tire/axle


Just let the oil run all over the shaft.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

Look like the tube was only threaded in a few turns, which was probably a good thing. Got any pics of the engine base itself where the piece broke off?

Maybe some JB Weld epoxy can make it all good.


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

jsup said:


> Sometimes those oil drains are a PIA. When you fix it I'd recommend something like this:
> 
> View attachment 118849
> 
> ...


Interesting solution - I use the same setup for my vertical air compressor to empty the tank of air. Before I added the ball valve, I had to get down and reach under the compressor with a wrench to loosen the bolt to let the air out and then retighten.., that was a PIA!


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

aldfam4 said:


> Interesting solution - I use the same setup for my vertical air compressor to empty the tank of air. Before I added the ball valve, I had to get down and reach under the compressor with a wrench to loosen the bolt to let the air out and then retighten.., that was a PIA!


your not alone there, 60 and 80 uprights can be pains with those radiator drains some companies install that love to have the ears break off


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## hmans3 (Nov 15, 2014)

i use a vacuum pump on all my small engines now to remove the oil. No more messes and plug problems. Topsider vacuum pump, amazon!


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

aldfam4 said:


> Interesting solution - I use the same setup for my vertical air compressor to empty the tank of air. Before I added the ball valve, I had to get down and reach under the compressor with a wrench to loosen the bolt to let the air out and then retighten.., that was a PIA!


I broke my bleeder valve from under my air tank, removed valve and replaced it with a 90 degree elbow, screwed on a 3 ft rubber high strength hose, i had one on hand, and when i need to drain water i attach my blow gun and blow out the water


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## jonnied12 (Jan 14, 2017)

hmans3 said:


> i use a vacuum pump on all my small engines now to remove the oil. No more messes and plug problems. Topsider vacuum pump, amazon!


 :10:
Me two.


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