# 1978 Bob-Cat Snow Thrower



## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

My Bob-Cat's the oldie, made by Wisconsin Marine, Lake Mills, WI, not the Bobcat skid steer folks. It's a 5 HP, 20" model.

The operating instructions say, "...remove engine plate and apply Lubriplate Marine A to chains in transmission. Add Lubriplate No. 2 to felt bearing feeders."

Hoping someone's familiar with these old workhorses and can tell me what/where the engine plate and bearing feeders are. Drawings/sketches/pics would be really helpful.

Thanks.


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

Welcome to the forum. Does your machine look like the one in this thread?

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...15729-new-purchase-bobcat-24-7hp-5-speed.html


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

Similar, but not exactly. Mine has a B & S engine, not Tecumseh, and belt guard is orange like rest of machine, not black. I also have no headlight.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

marspatt said:


> Similar, but not exactly. Mine has a B & S engine, not Tecumseh, and belt guard is orange like rest of machine, not black. I also have no headlight.


The Tecumseh engine on sj701's Bobcat is clearly not the original engine..
that engine is much newer than the snowblower..his likely originally had a Briggs as well..

Scot


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## GMH (Dec 31, 2013)

If yours is a 2-speed forward and reverse, the insides look like this. The motor plate is the plate that the motor is bolted to, so no easy access. The felt bearing feeders can be seen in the dismantled photo. There are also oil cups on the outer ends of the shafts and the auger.


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## GMH (Dec 31, 2013)

Here's a couple links to my ongoing rebuild.
Professional Power Equipment Technicians & Education Network (PPETEN) • View topic - Bob-Cat Snowblower Resurrection

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/general-snowblower-discussion/17874-bob-cat-resurrection.html


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

Thanks for the really helpful pics. I was afraid the motor plate was as you described, definitely not easy access. How important do you think it is to do this?

I assume the felt bearing feeders are the disc-shaped, felt-appearing items in your pic. Do they "feed" lube to the bearings?


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## joee5 (Nov 30, 2014)

Welcome from the Garden State


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## GMH (Dec 31, 2013)

Yes, they hold oil and gradually "feed" it to the porous bronze iolite bushings.
The manual says;
"Every 100 hours or 4 years remove engine and engine mounting plate and apply Texaco All-Temp Grease or similar grade to chains in transmission. Saturate 3 felt bearing feeders (37) with motor oil (5W-30)."


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## Driftbreaker (Oct 17, 2014)

Hey, Welcome! I have the exact same snow thrower as you do 5hp briggs and 20 inch cut.


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

GMH said:


> Here's a couple links to my ongoing rebuild.
> Professional Power Equipment Technicians & Education Network (PPETEN) • View topic - Bob-Cat Snowblower Resurrection
> 
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/general-snowblower-discussion/17874-bob-cat-resurrection.html


Hey GMH,

Looks like you've dug into these oldies and I'm hoping you or someone can help with my 1978 5 HP 20" that had sat idle since '97 or '98 with gas in the tank. I rebuilt the carb, removed/cleaned the gas tank, adjusted the carb, changed fluids and lubed all, but did not remove motor plate. And she throws snow just fine!

But, her traction drive belt slips. Belt looks OK, but is loose. I can wing it and just tighten, but I'd rather tension it correctly. 

Anybody have a Bobcat manual or proper set of instructions? Or, lacking that, able to advise the proper procedure to tension correctly?

All help will be very appreciated.

Thanks.


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## thx1139 (Dec 19, 2013)

marspatt said:


> ...traction drive belt slips. Belt looks OK, but is loose. I can wing it and just tighten, but I'd rather tension it correctly.
> 
> Anybody have a Bobcat manual or proper set of instructions? Or, lacking that, able to advise the proper procedure to tension correctly?




Hey, timely coincidence: I've got a 1974 BobcaT, 24" version with the 7HP gear-reduction Briggs. The traction belt on mine is pretty loose too. I have to pull on the cable directly now to get forward motion.

One thing to check : Grease in the traction-belt idler arm pivot may have hardened up over the years. This prevented the lever from traveling all the way on mine. It would move as if working correctly, but then the cable spring would just stretch rather than fully engage the drive. After soaking the pivot with several shots of WD-40 and working the arm back and forth I was able to restore full motion and it drove again, for a little while.

-But my ancient belts are almost certainly used up at this point. I have heard some BobcaT belts use a V-section different than typical automotive style "A" or "4L" belts. "B" I assume? Anyone know? Length? 

(Wisconsin Marine has played with some sheave diameters over the years, there's likely more than one correct answer for belt length.)

I have another, later 5-speed 8HP Tecumseh 24" Roto-Hoe/BobcaT that just smoked the Auger belt last night; Need that spec too.

EDIT: just saw the Gilson site that says the odd belts are "3V" section Wedge V Belts, but for the blower drive only. Traction belts supposed to be ordinary "A" / 4L profile. The search continues...


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

thx1139 said:


> Hey, timely coincidence: I've got a 1974 BobcaT, 24" version with the 7HP gear-reduction Briggs. The traction belt on mine is pretty loose too. I have to pull on the cable directly now to get forward motion.
> 
> One thing to check : Grease in the traction-belt idler arm pivot may have hardened up over the years. This prevented the lever from traveling all the way on mine. It would move as if working correctly, but then the cable spring would just stretch rather than fully engage the drive. After soaking the pivot with several shots of WD-40 and working the arm back and forth I was able to restore full motion and it drove again, for a little while.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip. I'll check the idler arm pivot for range of motion/lube.

Your edit from Gilson is also my understanding of belt section/profiles. The only source I've found for the 3Vs is from a Steve in NY state who's now in Africa for another 2 1/2-3 wks. Don't have his contact info handy, but you'll find him by Googling Bobcat snow throwers. Good luck.


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## thx1139 (Dec 19, 2013)

Dropped in to the neighborhood NAPA today, they said they can get me a 3V530 belt by Thursday.

I had to be specific about asking for a 3V; they also have 3VX, which is a cogged version. Not that a cogged belt won't work just fine, but cogged are usually a raw edge belt. For a frequently engaged/disengaged application I'd rather a full fabric-wrapped belt.

3V530 NAPA belt online


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

thx1139 said:


> Dropped in to the neighborhood NAPA today, they said they can get me a 3V530 belt by Thursday.
> 
> I had to be specific about asking for a 3V; they also have 3VX, which is a cogged version. Not that a cogged belt won't work just fine, but cogged are usually a raw edge belt. For a frequently engaged/disengaged application I'd rather a full fabric-wrapped belt.
> 
> 3V530 NAPA belt online


Thanks for the tip. Does 530 mean 53"? I was told by Gates that the 65091A belt for my 5 HP, 20" cut is 12mm top width, 54" effective length. Don't know how "effective length" corresponds with whatever designation NAPA uses.


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## thx1139 (Dec 19, 2013)

Oh yeah, be prepared for some confusion when it comes to spec"ing V-belt lengths.

For instance, 4L and "A" may refer to the same section type belt, but the nomenclature for length is different. ie: one is measured at the inner-most circumference, and another at the tensile element length (often just below the outer fabric layer.)

Because of this, you'll sometimes see two interchangeable belts of exactly the same section and length, but one part number suggests a length two full inches off from the other!

This supplier is one of a few I've bought online from in the past. [no affiliation] They show that in the Gates Super HC line, the "530" would indeed correspond to a 53" length. -same system as NAPA's.


Google produced a random weblog that attempts to shed more light on the topic: *"**How to measure and specify v-belts?**"*


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

thx1139 said:


> Oh yeah, be prepared for some confusion when it comes to spec"ing V-belt lengths.
> 
> For instance, 4L and "A" may refer to the same section type belt, but the nomenclature for length is different. ie: one is measured at the inner-most circumference, and another at the tensile element length (often just below the outer fabric layer.)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comprehensive info. This, for me, is sort of, "the more I learn, the more I realize what I don't know".

I do wonder--Gates told me the 65091A, supposedly a 3V, was 12 mm (just shy of 1/2") top width. The Gates info you attached said 3/8"?????????? Any insights?

Thanks.


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## thx1139 (Dec 19, 2013)

If the belt section is a 3V or 3VX, the nominal width = 3/8" = industry standard.

Surely Gates must rely on spec's from a generic substitution cross-reference chart, made to line up approximately with whatever's closest in their product inventory. Expect the occasional rounding errors, and metric-to-inches-to-red C hairs guesstimates, etc.

Do we know know where the 65091A number originated? Was it a Gates part? Bobcat p.n...? 

My 1824's belts are old. The drive belt slips really bad. But the auger still works fantastic:

My neighbor is a contractor. Last storm a heavy canvas painter's tarp had fallen from his truck, invisible under the snow. Bobcat sucked it up, stalled the un-stallable gear reduction Briggs. But the auger belt still didn't slip. So I figure it must have the correct, 3V wedge-section high torque belt on there...

Today I went back out to the garage to get some facts. Frayed belt's lettering barely visible, but reads: *DAYCO* Clutching Drives. The drive belt number is 4L400. (I measured 40" actual length.) The auger belt is 4L540. The wrong belt!

I'm going to try a 38" 4L section on the drive next. The 40" is obviously too long. I've seen a couple cross-references on the Gates site that match either a 37" or 38" 4L to a Bobcat snowthrower drive belt. Seems validated here so far.

The auger belt on there now is also a 4L, and works great. But comparing the two grooves on the powered sheave, The auger belt rides shallow in it's groove, while the drive belt sits nearly flush with the outer diameter. -So the two grooves are machined different, suggesting indeed a narrower belt was intended for the auger drive. 

Since a 54" 4L belt is just about right length-wise, a 3V530 would be shorter only by an inch. And since it it would ride deeper in the sheaves, it wouldn't have to span quite as far distance around the same path anyway. So again it seems confirmed that 3V530 is correct for my Bobcat auger drive.

Next stop: replace auger belt with 3V530, and try 4L380 on the drive.

However; I can now say from experience, the "wrong" 4L belt may get your auger drive back up and running for the storm if you're in a jam and have no 3V section replacement handy. Mine works so well I'm almost reluctant to pull it off...


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

I admire your attention to detail and your desire to "get it right'.

The 65091A PN came from Steve Waite, the Bob-Cat "guru" in NY state who supplies parts for these old girls. Gates is his supplier. 

It's not a standard Gates PN, but what they call a "specialty" PN, released for a specific customer and generally available only to that customer. This, gleaned from several conversations with several different Gates people.


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

thx1139 said:


> Dropped in to the neighborhood NAPA today, they said they can get me a 3V530 belt by Thursday.


This is where I found belts for my Crary BearCat, which I believe is a slightly newer rendition of the same beast. I got the green heavy duty ones and never had to replace them once after that.


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

marspatt said:


> I admire your attention to detail and your desire to "get it right'.
> 
> The 65091A PN came from Steve Waite, the Bob-Cat "guru" in NY state who supplies parts for these old girls. Gates is his supplier.
> 
> It's not a standard Gates PN, but what they call a "specialty" PN, released for a specific customer and generally available only to that customer. This, gleaned from several conversations with several different Gates people.


Thanks for the tip. Yes, I understand that Wisconsin Marine did sell to Crary and name was changed to Bear-Cat. But it's not clear to me where you got your belts. Would you clarify, please.

Thanks.


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## thx1139 (Dec 19, 2013)

I don't know anything about the mystery 65091A belt. Strange if it's a Gates part, their own site directed me to a 3V530.

The results of my own experiments so far:
3V530 fit the blower sheaves, but too short. It really needs to be a 54" belt.

Tried 4L370 in the traction sheaves. Again too tight. A 4L380 fit much better. (Both 37" & 38" are referenced on Gate's site for a Bobcat traction drive.)

I'd be tempted to try a 4L390. The 4L400 found on there was convenient up 'til the day it got too loose to grip at all. Generous slack had been allowing the driven pulley to freewheel easily against belt direction when disengaged. It took little effort to pull the machine backward for a 2nd pass, without shifting into neutral. With the 4L380, I'm pulling against a strong belt drag. Might improve after plenty of break-in.

As for the blower belt, for now I slapped the old 4L540 right back on. Never did give me any trouble, still working perfectly.


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

marspatt said:


> Thanks for the tip. Yes, I understand that Wisconsin Marine did sell to Crary and name was changed to Bear-Cat. But it's not clear to me where you got your belts. Would you clarify, please.
> 
> Thanks.


I "inherited" my 1978 5 HP 20" beast and have not changed belts. She'd been idle since about '97 or '98. Don't know whether they were ever changed.


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

Found this on my drive belt: "Powerflite 65082". Nothing readable on blower belt.


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## thx1139 (Dec 19, 2013)

marspatt said:


> Found this on my drive belt: "Powerflite 65082". Nothing readable on blower belt.


I think 65082 is an original Bobcat/Ransomes part number for a 4L section 37" belt. Have you got any measurements?


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## thx1139 (Dec 19, 2013)

wdb said:


> This is where I found belts for my Crary BearCat, which I believe is a slightly newer rendition of the same beast. I got the green heavy duty ones and never had to replace them once after that.


I've never seen one of the Crary BearCat machines in person. Pictures!


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

thx1139 said:


> I think 65082 is an original Bobcat/Ransomes part number for a 4L section 37" belt. Have you got any measurements?


No measurements; plan to check next time cover is off. Did tighten traction belt and will see how she works after I get a new spark plug (old one failed). Did find, while cover was off, additional marking on belt: "L7GW Japan".

Still hoping someone might have access to instruction for properly adjusting these belts.


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

thx1139 said:


> I don't know anything about the mystery 65091A belt. Strange if it's a Gates part, their own site directed me to a 3V530.
> 
> The results of my own experiments so far:
> 3V530 fit the blower sheaves, but too short. It really needs to be a 54" belt.
> ...


Did you find a 3V 54"? Did it work?

Thanks.


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

thx1139 said:


> I've never seen one of the Crary BearCat machines in person. Pictures!


Sorry, just seeing this for the first time. Here's a link to the thread I started here. 

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/snowblower-reviews/7794-crary-bear-cat-824-a.html


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## sj701 (Jan 23, 2014)

sscotsman said:


> The Tecumseh engine on sj701's Bobcat is clearly not the original engine..
> that engine is much newer than the snowblower..his likely originally had a Briggs as well..
> 
> Scot


Originally had a 5hp Briggs. I purchased the blower some time ago and repowered it with the Tecumseh and added the headlight. At the time I bought it to use, now I wish it was still original with a period correct 5hp Briggs. So if anyone is getting rid of a 5hp Briggs when they do a repower LMK.


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

Driftbreaker said:


> Hey, Welcome! I have the exact same snow thrower as you do 5hp briggs and 20 inch cut.


Do you, or anyone, have a parts diagram for this? Thanks.


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## marspatt (Dec 4, 2014)

marspatt said:


> Thanks for the tip. Yes, I understand that Wisconsin Marine did sell to Crary and name was changed to Bear-Cat. But it's not clear to me where you got your belts. Would you clarify, please.
> 
> Thanks.


Sorry for this very late response. Don't recall where I got the belt; found it by Googling "65091A ".


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