# Stuck Clutch, can't shift 1968 10M6d



## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

Hi All,

I have a 1968 10M6D. In this model year, it defaults to drive and you pull in the clutch lever in order to stop it and shift. It had started to get difficult to shift into different gears, and now the clutch lever won't move at all.

A picture is attached and it is similar to ones at Scotty's site in the 10,000 model range. The clutch lever is connected to a clutch rod that connects to a ball joint than into a throwout lever. This picture shows how the clutch rod connects. I am just reading from the manual some parts names and how they are connected. I am not sure how the mechanism works. I'm assuming that pulling the clutch lever lifts the friction wheel off the drive wheel, which enables you to move the shift lever, which slides the friction wheel left or right.









My problem is that the clutch lever won't move anymore, I can squeeze as hard as I can, and the clutch rod just tenses but doesn't move. Hence, the friction wheel won't move and can't shift it.

I am not sure where to start troubleshooting. Judicious tapping with a hammer here and there did nothing.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Since you said the problem has been getting worse to the point where it doesn't move now, I'm going to say you prob have some lubrication issues (crud build up) on the sliding parts within the drive carrier assembly. I would flip the machine up on the bucket, drop the belly pan and start to clean everything inside, then re-lube with some marine grade bearing/axle grease where parts contact each other.


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## AgentOrange (Nov 10, 2014)

ashwinearl said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have a 1968 10M6D. In this model year, it defaults to drive and you pull in the clutch lever in order to stop it and shift. It had started to get difficult to shift into different gears, and now the clutch lever won't move at all.


Here's a pic of my '65 10md6 before I replaced the friction disc (which is another story). The clutch is a simple, sping-loaded lever (kinda hidden up in left side of pic) that pivots the disc bracket up and away. Can't think of much binding it except the throw-out bearing for the disc is really crapped up inside its housing, not letting the disc bracket rotate away from the shifter slide rod/pin (across the top of the pic). Once you open it up it'll make sense. Be careful spraying lube in there. I had the shifter slide freeze up, got ticked off, sprayed WD40 every where through the shift rod opening and got the drive plate all wet! Good luck and report back!


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

AgentOrange said:


> that pivots the disc bracket up and away. Can't think of much binding it except the throw-out bearing for the disc is really crapped up inside its housing, not letting the disc bracket rotate away from the shifter slide rod/pin (across the top of the pic).


yes mine looks similar. The disc bracket is not rotating. I couldn't figure out what path it is supposed to move on to rotate out of the way. 

One thing I noticed, is if you look in the picture in my first post, it was taken a few months ago. The rod that is part of the throwout lever is sitting in the middle of the slot, not touching any sides. 

Right now that rod is all the way forward in a little indent that looks to have been worn into the housing. 

Here is the parts breakdown. I tried to upload the manual but it was too big If you can suggest part numbers to focus lubrication on that would help a lot.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Earl,
Have you tried adjustments to the clutch rod itself? From yor photo, it looks like the rod end can be tightened some. Also, as Ray noted, dirt free and lubed are keys to smooth operation on these mechanisms. MH


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

motorhead64 said:


> Earl,
> Have you tried adjustments to the clutch rod itself? From yor photo, it looks like the rod end can be tightened some. Also, as Ray noted, dirt free and lubed are keys to smooth operation on these mechanisms. MH


So adjustments would include tightening the ball joint to take u some of the 'slack' in the adjustment rod


Dumb question. Can I stand it on the bucket with the engine on it and filled with gas?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

ashwinearl said:


> Dumb question. Can I stand it on the bucket with the engine on it and filled with gas?


You can if you are careful. Make sure the oil cap is on tight so oil doesn't leak everywhere. Preferable to have a fuel shut off and burn the gas out of the carb first so that doesn't leak. Also helpful to have the fuel tank less than half full so the fuel level is lower than the vent in the tank cap. I have heard of people pulling the cap off and putting something like a plastic bag under the cap to make a temporary gasket.


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

I think there is something wrong with drive gearing too. Should the wheels be able to spin freely where I can roll it forward and backwards. With the differential lock pulled out, the wheels can rotate in opposite directions, but both won't move forward or back at the same time.

The friction disc is in the middle of the drive wheel and the drive clutch lever is disengaged.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Earl..
Something you may want to check that can jam up on these older Ariens...under the belt cover is a large spring loaded clutch dog that engages with a similar engine driven dog when you engage the main engagement clutch by the belt guard. Pull the belt cover and make sure it is able to move freely on its shaft. If it is stuck, spray some PB or like lube on it and tap on it with a hammer. When they stick, they cause engagement probs. MH


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Sounds like you need to get in there and free some things up. Possible your drive disc is out of adjustment or stuck on the sliding shaft and/or the differential is gummed up. Drain the gas from you tank, flip the machine up and take a pic of what it looks like in there.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

If you're engine has a "dipstick" style oil fill it's a good idea to put a drain pan or cardboard down as I've had a couple of those leak even though they felt tight. Depending on if you leave it up overnight it can drip enough to make a mess.


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Sounds like you need to get in there and free some things up. Possible your drive disc is out of adjustment or stuck on the sliding shaft and/or the differential is gummed up. Drain the gas from you tank, flip the machine up and take a pic of what it looks like in there.


 This is a comical picture.... I took off the bucket and the engine in the shed. I made a path though the 2' of snow from the shed to the garage with my push shovel, which incidentally was able to handle this latest snow (with a lot of elbow grease, but was a trooper). .

I dragged my tractor through the path with both wheels locked up to the garage. 

anyway, I'll post back with some close up pictures and am going to take off the wheels and get in there Thanks guys.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

ashwinearl said:


> This is a comical picture.... I took off the bucket and the engine in the shed. I made a path though the 2' of snow from the shed to the garage with my push shovel, which incidentally was able to handle this latest snow (with a lot of elbow grease, but was a trooper). .
> 
> I dragged my tractor through the path with both wheels locked up to the garage.
> 
> anyway, I'll post back with some close up pictures and am going to take off the wheels and get in there Thanks guys.


Sounds a lot like how I work on things, lol. Good to know I'm not alone!  I'm doing a friction disk on my blower tomorrow so maybe I can offer better advice when I have mine opened up and get a good look in there.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

If you disconnect the rod from the clutch lever (on the tractor), are you able to move lever by hand?


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

WestminsterFJR said:


> If you disconnect the rod from the clutch lever (on the tractor), are you able to move lever by hand?


Negative.
I have the clutch rod disconnected and am trying to push up on the throwout lever to mimic the motion of pulling the clutch lever which pulls up on the clutch rod. 

I am assuming that the bracket on which the friction disc is mounted should rotate in some arc that lifts the friction wheel off the drive wheel? I'm going to try and take a video to show what happens. When I press up on the throwout lever and the lack of movement of the friction disc bracket


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I didn't look your machine up so .... there are two ways they work. One is the friction disc is pulled against the driving disc but there is a system that the friction disc's shaft is stationary and it's the driving disc that gets pushed out against the friction disc.
If you post a photo of your machines "guts" it should be pretty clear.

If that lever isn't moving now that the rod is disconnected it's likely the friction disc is seized or gummed up and isn't moving on it's shaft. Some penetrating oil should help get it freed up. Just remember to try and keep the oil and goo off the friction disc's rubber and the driving disc. That one is easy enough to clean up though.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Fyi, when the drive disc is in the neutral shift position there is very little play on that clutch. However when you are in a gear, 1,2,3,4 or R, there is significantly more movement on that clutch lever. That's why I think your drive wheel may be stuck somewhere near that that neutral position. 
I think if you free up that drive disc (get it sliding freely on the shaft) you will free up the clutch.


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

All con,
Attached are some pictures, and here is a video on you tube. In the video, I am attempting to push up on the throwout lever. This is assuming that when I pull in the clutch lever it pulls on the rod, which translates into the end of the throwout lever moving up. 





But frankly, There is something dead simple here that I am not getting, as it looks like pushing up on that lever serves to drive the friction wheel more into the drive wheel.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Disconnect the shift linkage and try to move the drive disc by hand along the shaft. The drive disc looks like its right in the middle, near the neutral spot like I said in my earlier post.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

In the last 2 pics upper right, The welds on the shaft appear broken..


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Ok man- it was making me crazy. I just went to my garage and pulled the pan on mine. When my machine is in neutral- with the drive disc in the center (as your is in the video), it does EXACTLY the same movement as yours is doing, hardly any clutch movement. You MUST get that drive disk to move the left or right of center to get full movement on the clutch. I say your drive disk is stuck on the sliding shaft, a shifting problem rather than a clutch problem.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Ok man- it was making me crazy. I just went to my garage and pulled the pan on mine. When my machine is in neutral- with the drive disc in the center (as your is in the video), it does EXACTLY the same movement as yours is doing, hardly any clutch movement. You MUST get that drive disk to move the left or right of center to get full movement on the clutch. I say your drive disk is stuck on the sliding shaft.


Perhaps it is a safety device to keep it from moving when in neutral?


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Ok man- it was making me crazy. I just went to my garage and pulled the pan on mine. When my machine is in neutral- with the drive disc in the center (as your is in the video), it does EXACTLY the same movement as yours is doing, hardly any clutch movement. You MUST get that drive disk to move the left or right of center to get full movement on the clutch. I say your drive disk is stuck on the sliding shaft.


 Ray does your slide shaft look the same as in the pic on the R/S? Maybe just the light but it looks like the weld is broken


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

scrappy said:


> Ray does your slide shaft look the same as in the pic on the R/S? Maybe just the light but it looks like the weld is broken


Yes, very similar scappy. I actually think that's just grease built up, the shaft pops out of the housing there and has a clip in the outside, its not welded at all.


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Ok man- it was making me crazy. I just went to my garage and pulled the pan on mine. When my machine is in neutral- with the drive disc in the center (as your is in the video), it does EXACTLY the same movement as yours is doing, hardly any clutch movement. You MUST get that drive disk to move the left or right of center to get full movement on the clutch. I say your drive disk is stuck on the sliding shaft, a shifting problem rather than a clutch problem.


Working on it. I have sprayed liquid wrench in as many places as I can think of, and have disconnected the shift linkage. I was able to move the friction disc a little bit to the right. Should I be able to move the disc by hand its entire range of motion?

So the goal is to move the disc by hand X distance away from the center, and then reconnect the shift linkage and try again to move the clutch lever? 

Oh, forgot the next comical blunder in this adventure. Earlier, I had the clutch rod disconnected and the disconnected clutch rod was naturally hangs straight down. I had the blower tilted over onto the handles. It now has a lovely arc in it!!


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes, you should be able to move the drive disk from side to side pretty easy with the shift lever disconnected (and the clutch depressed). Just make sure you wipe the lube off the drive disk and plate otherwise it will slip on you when it's in gear. Just for reference, my gear selector (shifter) slides back and forth super easy, no effort is needed to go from gear to gear, just pushing down the button. That's how easy it should move for you too, no binding from the shofter though the drive disk assembly.


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Ok man- it was making me crazy. I just went to my garage and pulled the pan on mine. When my machine is in neutral- with the drive disc in the center (as your is in the video), it does EXACTLY the same movement as yours is doing, hardly any clutch movement. You MUST get that drive disk to move the left or right of center to get full movement on the clutch. I say your drive disk is stuck on the sliding shaft, a shifting problem rather than a clutch problem.


Ray,

I think you diagnosed this correctly. I got the friction disc to move to the right and pressing the throwout lever by hand yield much more movement with the friction disc away from the center. It required using a big screwdriver as a lever while pushing up on the throw out lever, but it finally moved. 

I have liquid wrench everywhere, so need to clean it up and make sure to clean the friction disc with rubbing alcohol.

So 1) how to do I keep this from happening again. Where and how should I grease/lube it

2) What are the implications of this for operations. I'm wondering if I should stay away from N?

When turning the unit off, I had been putting it into N (neutral) then disengaging the drive belt using the lever on the side. Based on how little movement occurs in the clutch the closer the gearing is to N, it seems that I should keep the gear lever in some gear, depress the clutch lever and then disengage the belt drive? Or maybe just, hold the clutch lever in and shut the engine off.

Note that I have been leaving the auger lever engaged, as it knocks really bad if I engage it even with the drive belt lever disengaged. I don't want those teeth to break from repetitive jarring.

Now I have to straighten out that clutch rod. I'll let you know when it is back together.

best
Ashwin


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## gsnod (Sep 2, 2013)

I've found that liberal use of spray brake clean on the shafts is an excellent way to break through the crud that causes these shafts to freeze. I spray the shaft and then wipe it well with an old sock, then shift gears so that the drive disc moves. This allows you to clean the other half of the shaft. Then place some light weight oil on the shaft, and make sure the drive plate and drive disc are aslo clean of any crud. 



Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Fyi, when the drive disc is in the neutral shift position there is very little play on that clutch. However when you are in a gear, 1,2,3,4 or R, there is significantly more movement on that clutch lever. That's why I think your drive wheel may be stuck somewhere near that that neutral position.
> I think if you free up that drive disc (get it sliding freely on the shaft) you will free up the clutch.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

What gsnod said. Need to clean up the shafts the disc rides on and then inspect for rust or corrosion. Sometimes a little sanding is needed to smooth out some bad spots but other times it's just the lube getting old and nasty and jamming the parts solid.

Some like oil, I like to use a very thin coat of synthetic wheel bearing grease. I happen to have Mobil1 and it works good for me.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Ashwin, I coated all the sliding shafts with a nice coat of Marine grade axle grease (I happened to have a tube of blue evinrude grease I use). I used the marine grade because is water repellant, super tacky, and made for use in salt water conditions. With the salt they use on the roads around here I figured maybe a little extra protection? I cleaned mine drivetrain up and greased it 3 years ago, prob 25-30 hours on the machine since then. When I took the pan off today it looked like I just greased it up. It's not something you'll have to do often if you use a good quality grease that doesn't run off. So glad you're making headway, let us know how it turns out buddy.
And no need to avoid neutral, once it's all moving free you will have no worries in any gear.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Just another guess.. Seems to be very little rust on any parts. Maybe the grease has dried up? I have seen that on GM column shifters, Could hardly move the lever. The grease had dried up almost like locktite... I swear had to file and sand paper the pivots and re lube.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

If you go to 5:20 you will see how yours should slide with that (arced) rod removed. Your system is a slightly different design as I think it slides on two rods but it needs to slide just as easily to be able to shift from gear to gear.





Maybe the grease is dried up, maybe some corrosion, whatever it is it needs to get freed up and lubed.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Got her barkin' yet?


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## ashwinearl (Sep 8, 2014)

scrappy said:


> Got her barkin' yet?


 Almost there. A stuck friction wheel was definitely the issue. Thanks so much to Richard and all for the input. After spraying with liquid wrench I disconnected the shifter linkage and was able to move the wheel a little. 

Moving it past the center of the friction wheel got it to a point where pushing the throwout lever created much more movement in the friction wheel bracket. I was then able to move it through its entire range of motion.

I used brake cleaner to clean the hexagon rod and the upper rod and then lightly coated the rods with red grease. I reconnected the shifter linkage and it moves smooth now.

The fat lady hasn't sung until I get the bucket, engine, and belt back together, but am over this hump. I was getting worried, but knew it had to be something simple. 

This weekend I'll have some light in the shed, though it will be cold, and will get the whole unit back together.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Great to hear you'll be back in business shortly. Smooth shifting from now on!


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

cool beans

Be sure to clean the drive plate (friction disc) and the rubber driven with brake clean or such.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I think I see her coming on stage now ??


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## MichaelWDane (Feb 14, 2015)

Shryp said:


> Perhaps it is a safety device to keep it from moving when in neutral?


I have problems with mine not shifting as well. Did a search and found this thread. Yes your lever doesn't have much movement when in neutral but it is stuck in the upper portion of it's travel not right at the bottom. What i noticed on mine it there is a tang on the steel bracket that holds everything and a hook shaped extention attached to the sliding fork bracket. These two items work to keep the drive disc away from the driven disc when in neutral. It is interference between these two parts that is preventing my clutch and shift levers from moving. I don't know how to address this problem maybe it is an adjustment somewhere? All the shafts on my Ariens are well lubed and have never been rusted. The shift fork glides very easily back and forth as you would expect.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to the forum MichaelWDane


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