# Oh no, my dealer is closing at 6 pm now



## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

A big reason I got my Toro where I did is because the dealer was open until 8 pm weekdays and is open on Saturday and Sunday. The day before I picked up my unit they announced they would be closing at 6 pm weekdays and limited hours on Sundays until end of March. Hopefully I won't need service on a brand new unit, but it would nearly impossible to get down there by 6 pm with my snow blower due to my work hours. They are also a hardware store and this is the earliest they have ever closed on weekdays during the winter. Previous winters they have closed at 7 pm or 8 pm.

As of Christmas eve the estimated completion date on a snow blower repair is Jan 30th! I would hope a new unit needing warranty work might be looked at sooner if need be.


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## johnwick (Dec 16, 2019)

A dealer who isn’t open when you need them to be or completes a repair weeks after dropping off is simply a sales location in my mind.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

reader2580 said:


> As of Christmas eve the estimated completion date on a snow blower repair is Jan 30th! I would hope a new unit needing warranty work might be looked at sooner if need be.


I have to agree with johnwick on that dealer being about useless for anything but sales. Peak season and he takes a month to get to your machine if it needs service that you can't do? That's inexcusable. They never heard of overtime? Sheesh!


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

johnwick said:


> A dealer who isn’t open when you need them to be or completes a repair weeks after dropping off is simply a sales location in my mind.




Two comments. First, a new machine of any brand should not require dealer level maintenance immediately after purchase. And second, maintenance service by the local dealer is the primary reason that many buyers avoid online purchases. And yes I understand how devastating online sales can be to local stores, both big and small. It remains incumbent on them to be there when they are needed OR they are just not needed!


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

Part of the problem is they have a LOT of units in for repair. They have a huge room for units being serviced that is overflowing. They are also advertising for another mechanic which probably doesn't help things.

They won't even start taking in walk behind mowers until April 1st so they can dedicate their time to snow blowers and riding mowers used to move snow until then.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

The guy has a lucrative business!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

LOL …. If I lived near him I would take a part time job there … 

Doing what I enjoy and getting paid for it, I could handle that for a few weeks ..


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## rod330 (Oct 9, 2015)

oneacer said:


> LOL …. If I lived near him I would take a part time job there …
> 
> Doing what I enjoy and getting paid for it, I could handle that for a few weeks ..


Well, it _*sounds*_ like fun but I've got a feeling these places are sweatshops. 
- You've got 20 minutes to fix that carb and get it out the door!
- You've got 15 minutes to replace that auger belt and get it out the door!
- You've got 15 minutes to replace that scraper bar and those skid shoes!

I'd be fired in the first hour since it takes me 10x longer than normal to do simple stuff. Of course, finding the perfect music, making more coffee, organizing my tools and admiring the outcome of any simple accomplishment does take time :smile2:


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Everyone thinks they should be serviced first and the dealer should stay open until midnight for them. Clearly there is not enough business to stay open past 6 pm. Worst case you take part of a day off. 



They probably pay mechanics poorly because no one want to pay what it cost for a top grade mechanic to fix their machines, oh, that much, I might as well buy a new one. 



If you really need your blower, have a backup plan. Shovel is first but I have a bad back so. 



In my case my neighbor will gladly do it for me, or get a second low cost machine that will do the job.


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## jtw1979 (Mar 14, 2017)

oneacer said:


> LOL …. If I lived near him I would take a part time job there … /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
> 
> Doing what I enjoy and getting paid for it, I could handle that for a few weeks .. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


The last guy probably quit due to the slave driver boss and took a job putting together blowers at Home Depot instead.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

I don't anticipate needing any repairs under warranty. This is my third piece of equipment purchased here and the first two never needed any warranty repairs.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

That's the problem, you can't really anticipate when something unexpected is going to happen. That's why it's unexpected like the frozen newspaper buried in the snow or a chunk of ice that was thrown into the driveway from the snowplow going by. Or just someone goofing up during assembly or set up or manufacturing defect. It can happen to brand new just delivered or your trusty 30+ year old machine.

The dealer is supposed to be the safety net for those incidents and I fully agree that having a month waiting list just isn't acceptable. I know the feeling as my fuel pump was going out and I tried to get the Ford in to the dealer for service and they couldn't get me in for a little over a week. I just find it hard to believe they are that fully booked they can't get a car that's going to die in sooner than something that's just in for maintenance.

Hopefully this Toro dealer does great work and that's why they're busy. It is hard to understand why if they are that busy they'd be cutting back on hours ?? I'd be going to a local high school and seeing if I could recruit a couple mechanically competent folks from a shop class to work evenings. Offer them minimum plus some commission so their speed is tied to their compensation. Helps people motivate themselves instead of being that oger driving people. :2cents:

.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

The dealer is a hardware store that is also a power equipment dealer. At least 25% of the building is for power equipment. They are well known as a power equipment dealer in the area. They have a really big show floor for equipment sales plus a huge parts and service area.

It is a 30 mile round trip for me, but I will make a special trip there for hardware at times because they have a huge selection of hardware that other stores don't have. They carry stuff like 2" diameter bolts and the like. The price on their 2" diameter bolt is probably steep, but generally the folks looking for a 2" diameter bolt need it now and don't care about the price.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Several posts deleted.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

Sid said:


> When I "worked", there was a small engine, and other things, blowers, mowers, shop and I guess a lot of other stuff.The big deal was they stayed open 24 hours a day during snow storms. The store was in Nassau County near Garden city. I don't know if there store is even there anymore. I did go there once or twice during storms, and was happy it was there. One of the lessons I


24 hours a day seems a little extreme. My figuring is if you can get out of the driveway without removing the snow then it really isn't an emergency to get the snow blower fixed. It is different if you remove snow for a business.

There is a power equipment dealer locally that used to advertise that if it was snowing they were open for parts. They may have stopped doing that as it is no longer on their website.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

some people think I'm open 24 hours a day especially during snowstorms.

i have been known to work half the night on repairs especially for One man snow removal operator with a couple kids to feed. he had 13 accounts to take care of and blew his auger belt. took off bucket , replaced belts , bearings , serviced the augers and the whole darn machine . half the night in a cold garage.

told him he needed more than one machine if he had 13 accounts. thought he was gonna break my arm off shakin it he was so grateful.

he ended up buying one of my 1132's . I like helping people like him.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

biggest issue is in today,s world, how many kids go to trade schools?? not many it's all about going to collage, decades of this push have lead to the biggest reason,that has lead to a major shortage of techs in the repair fields, ope, automotive, machine repair,, 

than dealers and shops have them self's to blame,by using the age old system of FLAT RATE pay. meaning you get paid by the shop hour you bill/put out .not per hour you work, flat rate also means no guarantied pay . that has a lot to do with today's shortage also


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## DuffyJr (Oct 15, 2015)

The Toro dealer here is a small Implement business. When I was having issues with a mower (under warranty) that was leaking gas he told me straight up his customers that have lawn care services come first, I about fell over and said I wished you would have told me that when I bought it . While he did give me a loaner he had my mower for close to a month. When I got it back it was still leaking gas, I didn't bother going back and found another Toro dealer about 20 miles from here that helped get it straightened out so when it came time for a new SS guess where I bought it.


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

I don't hardly blame a dealer for putting lawn care companies first. Lawn care companies tend to buy a lot of equipment and lose money when their equipment isn't working. However, the dealer should have told you up front.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

in no means meant as a flame post but 

i have to ask, why are you so mad about a dealer/hardware store having spring summer fall and different winter hours. after all we dealers make our big money in the warm weather not cold, so it's very common all over, that they adjust hours to help the bread and butter lawn care people, who work day break till dusk. 

same goes with shops who open for parts during storms, after all! there are people out plowing and clearing snow risking their life's so EMS can get to people in need again that comes first to many,
something i'm very thankful for, after having heart attack during a 16 inch snow fall .

if so worried about needing parts? keep a machine EMS kit, belts,spark plug.oil and gas you should be good to keep going.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

I guess I see the dealer's side, too. I do computer repairs and photo imaging, tape conversions, printing/mounting, etc. From Thanksgiving to Xmas, computer repairs get the back seat to photo that MUST be done by Xmas. I actually extend my hours during that period, though, to 6 days a week from 5 and longer days.


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## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

On the dealer front, I can see how they can get backed up with repairs. A large dealer near me has been responsible for the sale of Ariens, Toro, Simplicity, and Honda snowblowers through the years. It would not shock me if they sell a combined 1000 machines or more a season and they've been doing it for over 60 years. Even with 8 flatbed trucks doing pick-ups and drop-offs and the 15 full time mechanics working 6 days a week, all it would take is a tiny fraction of those sold machines to break down in 1 storm to cause a significant backlog. And this is a place that stocks every part for all the machines they have sold. Several years ago in the afternoon of a 20" storm I stopped by for a part and was in a line that started outside in the parking lot. Must've been 50-60 people deep.

On a much more personal note, for about 15 years or so, my brother and I did repairs and routine service on snowblowers. This was just for fun on the side of our real jobs. Business was pretty good even though we never advertised at all. All our new customers were from word of mouth. We offered free pick-up, drop-off, diagnosis and estimated cost and completion of the work that was needed. Along with our honest opinion of whether or not the work should be done at all. Any work we performed was guaranteed for the winter season and a full service also included a complete cleaning of the machine followed by a fresh coat of fluid film. The reputation of our work and pricing grew to the point where we started working on customers snowblowers on August 1st and not finish until around January 1st. Remember this was just side work, for fun, nights and weekends. Then when the snowstorms came, we had our main jobs, the snow removal business, and then the repair calls would pile up again. Depending on the winter we would often tell people it could take up to a month before we could look at their machine. Especially if it kept snowing. We'd explain how everything is done on a 1st come 1st serve basis and people were very understanding. Maybe because we weren't a "real businesses". It was becoming all consuming so we decided to give up the repair work. Now all we work on is our own equipment, friends, and family.


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## danham (Sep 23, 2019)

rod330 said:


> Well, it _*sounds*_ like fun but I've got a feeling these places are sweatshops.
> - You've got 20 minutes to fix that carb and get it out the door!
> - You've got 15 minutes to replace that auger belt and get it out the door!
> - You've got 15 minutes to replace that scraper bar and those skid shoes!
> ...


Great post! I was especially amused having worked years ago as a flat-rate Porsche/Audi mechanic.

-dan


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## bigredmf (Jan 16, 2018)

My dealer closes at 5:00 PM on weekdays during the winter. Open 9-1:00 on Saturdays.
I own my own hydraulic shop and around the holidays unless we get severe weather it is generally dead.
Granted they have work stacked up but a 7 day operation would be painful for workers and ownership.
Enjoy the holidays as if they are your last.
Red


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

danham said:


> Great post! I was especially amused having worked years ago as a flat-rate Porsche/Audi mechanic.
> 
> -dan


check your pm's dan as there is nother porsche/audi/vw master tech in here


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

danham said:


> Great post! I was especially amused having worked years ago as a flat-rate Porsche/Audi mechanic.
> 
> -dan


local dealer wanted to hire me several times. I asked how long it should take me to service a Honda snowblower and he said "our mechanics can do one in about 45 minutes.

I started laughing and told him it takes me 4-5 hours (if I'm lucky )

of course they don't do what I do on a full service . I probably make 2-3 times per hour what they pay those guys anyway and i can work when I want and take a break anytime I want and take days off anytime.

already worked for the man for over 40 years.

NO MORE!


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

I HEAR THAT!! same for me no more

small side note,hours of operation from the local top rated ope shop 


Shop Hours:

Monday	8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Tuesday	8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
wednesday	8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Thursday	8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Friday	8:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Saturday	8:00 AM - 2:00 PM
Sunday	Sorry Closed


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## Nick Karahalios (Nov 21, 2019)

I work at a large industrial facility and most people have zero interest in working late in the day(unless they are working on a swing or a mid shift). Homelife is a big thing for people these days, expecially with families. If I were to own a small engine shop(I have in the past looked into purchasing an automotive repair business), i'd be open early, and closed early. Say 7AM-4PM. You need something and want me to come in earlier? I'll respect that, tell me what time you need me to be there and i will. But I got stuff of my own I want to do once the doors are closed.

PS. i was listening to an automotive pod cast the other day, dont be surprised if the cost of repair labor jumps into the 110-120$ per hour in the next 3-4 years. Experienced Techs are in short supply and Lease rates on spaces are going through the roof, expecially in states with legalized marijuana(high demand for grow spaces)


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## reader2580 (Dec 20, 2019)

I don't know about the mechanics in the back, but the sales, parts, and service counter guys have mostly been there since the earth cooled. They must treat them right to stay for many years. I know at least one was there when I was a kid in the 80s when the store was in an old building with power equipment in the basement. The store has moved twice since then and is in a ten year old building now. (They built a new building in the late 80s that the city took via eminent domain so they built another new store down the road.)


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

in the back you see very few mechanics that are young, mostly older and gray haired, we have major shortages of mechanics across the repair trades, we need to fill the blue collar trade openings NOW!! sending every kid off to collage hasn't helped, it is the reason for the shortage. kids don't want to dirty their hands today.

shop labor rates?? here in NJ $130.00 a hour is the normal i foresee $150.00 to 160.00 maybe more by 2022 due to costs of operation .


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

Nick Karahalios said:


> PS. i was listening to an automotive pod cast the other day, dont be surprised if the cost of repair labor jumps into the 110-120$ per hour in the next 3-4 years.





87powershiftx2 said:


> shop labor rates?? here in NJ $130.00 a hour is the normal i foresee $150.00 to 160.00 maybe more by 2022 due to costs of operation .


This explains why the members of the forum here see so many machines with engines of any type thrown out if they won't run, whatever the reason. For example, my wife's niece and her hubby both have jobs that pay well into six figures each. (They "paid their dues" and lived in poverty while in school getting multiple master's degrees.) For example, his degrees are in computer science and neurobiology - given all the interest in Artificial Intelligence he's treated very, very, well. He's a very smart guy. Her degrees are in mathematics and economics. She is also treated very well at work and ain't no dummy either.

But he doesn't know much about engines and doesn't care to study the subject. So if a lawn mower or whatever doesn't run, he trashes it and buys a new one. He figures if it runs five years he got his nickel's worth, and his time off is valuable. Guys and gals like them do not work 40-hour weeks. More like 60+. So when the snowblower or whatever breaks, he doesn't want to take time away from family fooling around with it and just buys a new one.

So if a five-year-old snowblower that he paid a grand for quits working and he's looking at maybe half that price to get it fixed, the numbers work in favor of just buying a new one that he knows will work and has a warranty. We've all had the experience of paying to get something fixed and then had it break again - something else this time - a week out of warranty, and he doesn't want to do that either.

And for him and his wife, the economics (and I'm including the value of time off from work here, which for them is limited and therefore valuable) mean that anything that detracts from what they as a family want to do is an unwanted distraction, and fixing engines is one of those things.

All that aside, regardless of one's income we all know people who for whatever reason just cannot deal with mechanical things even though they may be otherwise reasonably smart folks. I have several relatives like that. Those are the people who are trashing otherwise good machines that "only need a little bit of work" to bring them back to life. But they haven't the foggiest idea of how to do that "little bit of work" or even where to find out. They know as much about internal combustion engines as I do about neurobiology. (Hint; I can spell it, and that's about all.)

And if you're selling fixed-up snowblowers these people are your grateful customers because they can't afford to buy new machinery every five years.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

87powershiftx2 said:


> in the back you see very few mechanics that are young, mostly older and gray haired, we have major shortages of mechanics across the repair trades, we need to fill the blue collar trade openings NOW!! sending every kid off to collage hasn't helped, it is the reason for the shortage. kids don't want to dirty their hands today.
> 
> shop labor rates?? here in NJ $130.00 a hour is the normal i foresee $150.00 to 160.00 maybe more by 2022 due to costs of operation .


for small engine repair ? or is this auto? 

our Honda dealer charges 85 an hour and has a 2-3 week back up . it would be 2-3 months if we had any snow. people are practically begging me to repair their machines because it takes me a day or 2 and don't really care how much it costs. 

wish I were 30 years younger. enjoy the heck out of this but only wanna do it part time.


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## rod330 (Oct 9, 2015)

WVguy said:


> This explains why the members of the forum here see so many machines with engines of any type thrown out if they won't run, whatever the reason.
> .
> .
> And if you're selling fixed-up snowblowers these people are your grateful customers because they can't afford to buy new machinery every five years.


Well said, I couldn't agree more. During my "working" years, especially when our two children were growing, there was barely time to mow the lawn or clear the snow. Maintenance? Yes, very basic maintenance was done but seldom on time. Now that I'm retired, I have time to spend several days refurbishing a snowblower or lawn mower.

Remember Clint Eastwood's famous line from Magnum Force, "A man's got to know his limitations".


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

orangputeh said:


> for small engine repair ? or is this auto?
> 
> our Honda dealer charges 85 an hour and has a 2-3 week back up . it would be 2-3 months if we had any snow. people are practically begging me to repair their machines because it takes me a day or 2 and don't really care how much it costs.
> 
> wish I were 30 years younger. enjoy the heck out of this but only wanna do it part time.


BOTH!! sadly! costs a arm and a leg here to run a shop. sky high rent, electric, heat , sewer, operating license fees. insurance costs for liability,workers comp, health , specialty tools, techs pay, and more add up fast making operating a shop costly 

wish i was 30 plus younger myself ,


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## Honda1132 (Sep 2, 2016)

rod330 said:


> Well said, I couldn't agree more. During my "working" years, especially when our two children were growing, there was barely time to mow the lawn or clear the snow. Maintenance? Yes, very basic maintenance was done but seldom on time. Now that I'm retired, I have time to spend several days refurbishing a snowblower or lawn mower.
> 
> Remember Clint Eastwood's famous line from Magnum Force, "A man's got to know his limitations".


I know, there are only so many hours in a day/week. I have been lucky with the snowblower and anything major that has happened occurred late season giving me the summer months to work in a rebuild. I try to keep ahead of the basic maintenance though so the issues don't get bigger.

Fixing things is becoming a lost art. I think there are a few factors to this: products becoming more advanced, things being manufactured cheaply (the throwaway society/mindset), and maybe the overall societal factors - less folks round from the depression ir rural upbringing when money was tight and the only alternative was to repair an item.



87powershiftx2 said:


> in the back you see very few mechanics that are young, mostly older and gray haired, we have major shortages of mechanics across the repair trades, we need to fill the blue collar trade openings NOW!! sending every kid off to collage hasn't helped, it is the reason for the shortage. kids don't want to dirty their hands today.



Seeing this here as well. We forget two things- university isn't for everybody, and there will still be a need for tradespeople.


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