# Toro 824 Model: 38080 (1990) – Traction Assembly Issue



## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

Hey guys. This is my first post and my first major Snowblower project (besides changing oil & spark plug). I have a 1990 Toro 824 Model: 38080. During the very last storm of 2015 the traction assembly / drive system stopped working completely and suddenly. Not knowing much about these machines I assumed it was a belt or spring that had broken. So I drained the oil & gas, tilted the machine up, opened up the bottom panel and investigated. What I found looked like a sh*t show to my untrained eyes. The belt was not on the traction pulley, but not b/c it was toasted…. It was because the traction pulley had completely sheared off the main axle. The traction pulley was now 2 pieces instead of 1. The “Pillow Block” bearing was mangled as well as the other bearing at the back of the machine. The reverse plate was also detached and flopping around. Grease with metal shavings everywhere.

I managed to overhaul the entire traction assembly, broken pulley system and friction plate assembly. Cleaned everything. I took the traction pulley to a welding shop for reattachment to avoid paying $180 + S&H for a new one. The welder did a fantastic job BTW. I somehow managed to reassemble the entire assembly with new bearings and new traction/auger belts. After reassembly the shift lever felt very loose. When I engage 1/2/3 gears at the lever the friction wheel is not contacting the traction pulley which means I still don’t have a working drive system. I read some more in a service manual and adjusted the shifting rods/clevis’s. The shifter definitely firmed up but I’m still not getting the friction wheel to contact the traction pulley. The friction wheel assembly is moving back and forth when I shift, but there doesn’t seem to be enough tension for the forward drive mode. Reverse feels fine. Any suggestions?


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Is this your setup?

Toro 38080 (824) - Toro 824 Snowthrower (SN: 0000001 - 0999999) (1990) TRACTION ASSEMBLY Diagram and Parts List | PartsTree.com


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## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

Yes, that's the exact setup that I ordered parts from @ PartsTree. My Serial Number and model 38080 helped me determine the year of 1990. When I dug into PartsTree, all the diagrams, motor model all matched. I bought the machine used so I had to research a bit to find my model year of 1990.

I have a fair amount of pictures but it looks like a have to upload them to a 3rd party site first....before I can post here.


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## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

Here are some pictures:

#1525 = The mess
#1529 = The mess cont.
#2012 = Busted Pulley
#2010 = Cleaned and empty traction case
#2061 = Welded Traction pulley system reinstalled
#2062 = Completed re-installation of traction system

Keep in mind, I'm a super novice on this stuff. Don't assume I know what I'm doing here...


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

:white^_^arial^_^0^_ ts8169. 
Is spring #13 in the parts diagram attached to the pivot shaft bracket and the little hole in the frame? Can you push the gear lever far enough forward to make the friction plate engage the drive pulley?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Did you put everthing back together right???? I am just asking. because sometimes the pics that are posted. I have trouble understanding. if I am not looking at it in living color. BROTHER GRUNT is the man to ask when it comes to those TORO'S. anyhoo *ALOHA from the paradise city.*


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## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

Yes, Spring #13 in the parts diagram is attached to the pivot shaft bracket and the frame. I researched this online to make sure I attached correctly as I forgot to take a picture before dis-assembly. It also appears to be in very good condition. Was a PIA to attach / re-attach BTW.

At the handlebar, I have full range of motion with the shift lever. It was too loose initially before I adjusted the rods. Got firmer after rod/clevis adjustment. Inside the case I have not tried to manually move the friction wheel towards the drive pulley to make contact so I'm not sure if that range of motion exists. I'll try that tonight. Thanks a lot for that idea.

The shoulder bolts, part #42, are wrenched tight yet there's still a gap between the bolt and case which causes the assembly to wiggle around a bit. Thought maybe I screwed something up here, but I think that allows for rotation.

Did I put everything back together right? HaH, yah, I thought so.... i guess that's now the question. Did I really....? I never dis-assembled the friction wheel assembly/ pivot shaft bracket, so that's not my issue.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

ts8169, do you have the Toro two stage service manual or just the owners manual? Here is a link to the actual Toro service manual that covers multiple models so just pay attention to the 38080 instructions.
Thank you Shryp.

http://shryp.ashendust.com/Snowblowers/2stagdrv.pdf


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

ts8169 said:


> The shoulder bolts, part #42, are wrenched tight yet there's still a gap between the bolt and case which causes the assembly to wiggle around a bit. Thought maybe I screwed something up here, but I think that allows for rotation.


You are correct, they are shoulder bolts which allow the assembly to pivot without binding. I have the same machine, so I can open mine up and look at what may need adjusting to make yours work if need be.

Another thought, is the gear shift handle tight against the neutral slot because of spring tension or does it just sort of rest there? It should be tight.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

ts8169 said:


> Yes, Spring #13 in the parts diagram is attached to the pivot shaft bracket and the frame. I researched this online to make sure I attached correctly as I forgot to take a picture before dis-assembly. It also appears to be in very good condition. Was a PIA to attach / re-attach BTW.
> 
> At the handlebar, I have full range of motion with the shift lever. It was too loose initially before I adjusted the rods. Got firmer after rod/clevis adjustment. Inside the case I have not tried to manually move the friction wheel towards the drive pulley to make contact so I'm not sure if that range of motion exists. I'll try that tonight. Thanks a lot for that idea.
> 
> ...


post a vid. or pm me for my e-mail.


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## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

Thanks guys. Yes I did find the actual 2-stage service manual that was posted to this site. Awesome that this was posted! Big thanks to whoever posted that.

I will check the neutral slot to see if things are tight. Would not surprise me if it's somewhat loosey-goosey.


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## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

I found the issue! In the parts diagram, I had initially cranked down nut #58 and washer #59 with my socket. So much so that the friction disk wouldn't slide from speeds 1/2/3 so I had backed it out until the disk slid freely side to side. I just tried backing the nut out even further and sure enough, the friction disk started lowering itself towards the traction pulley with each turn. Eventually the 2 made contact...and with some force. Everything feels great and solid. 

Grunt: When in neutral the shift lever is quiet firm. That whole assembly feels solid but I definitely needed to adjust the 2 clevis's to get there.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Glad to hear you figured it out before I tore my machine apart looking for a solution. Good job on finding and fixing the problem.:goodjob:


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## ts8169 (Nov 9, 2015)

Thank you for the offer to go above and beyond Grunt!


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## rjjl (Apr 3, 2016)

Good morning gents, am a new be to Toro snowblowers. Inherited a sickly 1989 38080 from a friend. Problem is same as the one depicted in ts8169's #1529 picture. Broken Tension Spring item13 plus missing item 22 Bolt/Screw and accompanying item 33 Lock Nut. Have replace all three items but do not like wobble I feel on friction disc after Bolt/Screw tightened in place. Have a feeling machine was used/run with missing Bolt/Screw and inner shaft /centre of friction disc became oval shaped similar to what happens to brass wheel bearing when not properly lubricated. Question is How much wear is tolerable ??
Or should I see if item 32 friction disc is still available from a parts supplier ?? RJJL


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## rjjl (Apr 3, 2016)

*Update*

For the record. Have successfully repaired the 38080. Removed driveshaft and bored inner end of rear disc and inserted brass insert to correct (oval) damage caused by having used machine without item #22 and #33. My machinist friend told me he felt that when, in a previous repair when front disc #61 was welded , the person had used same lock nut (#33) during reassembly . These OEM lock nuts are "one use only" as locking feature is "one way only". If reused Locking feature not assured. He feels that is what happened to my 38080. Over time lock nut fell off , in turn, bolt dropped out of place and then, every time machine was put in reverse, pressure of friction disc forced rear disc to work lopsided and with time become oval shaped. With new lock nut, modified rear plate tranny works well and machine put away for summer. Will see how things go when the White Stuff fly again next fall.
Tks to Grunt for his input during my project. RJJL


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

Thank you RJJL for letting us know what was wrong and how you successfully solved the problem. This is good information for the next person with a similar issue.:goodjob: Have a great summer.


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## rjjl (Apr 3, 2016)

Quick PS to my last msg. Forgot to mention that my machinist friend had (in his wisdom) drilled, tapped and inserted a set screw in the lower portion of the neck of the rear disc. He felt by doing so would avert any chance that a wobble could re-occur in the future. Rear disc is now secured to driveshaft in three places, both sides of bolt and by the set screw.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to SBF rjjl


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## eshernius (Sep 27, 2016)

I have a 524 but should be very similar and was wondering if the drive shaft and friction plate have play where it slides back and forth in the bushings?


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## Snowcat (Oct 26, 2013)

My 1984 824 has the wobble in the friction plate for reverse drive similar to what was mentioned in this thread by rjjl. I have no machinist friends to fix my friction plate so I was thinking of either shimming the gaps with some thin sheet metal or maybe packing the gaps with jb weld. Any thoughts on those options? I suppose also I could drill and tap a hole (or a couple) and add a set screw (or a couple). I think it is important to get the friction plate aligned well on the shaft otherwise I will probably end up with a pulsating reverse drive action, and maybe other problems.


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## toromike (Aug 20, 2018)

Snowcat, I have a 1986 repowered 524 (38040) that has the same transmission. When the engine was at idle I sometimes heard a bell like sound due to the engine vibration. I found that I had the same issue as described here. The reverse friction plate was lose on the shaft and would ring like a bell in certain positions. I removed the reverse friction plate assembly, disassembled it and found no apparent wear. The hole in the reverse friction plate that the shaft goes into was round. The bolt hole in the shaft was round, the bolt hole in the friction plate was round, the 1/4" bolt was a loose fit in both the shaft and friction plate. If the looseness was from wear I expected the wear to be somewhat uneven. This looseness may be the way the transmission was designed. Even with the loose reverse friction plate, reverse gear always operated smoothly. So, the only issue I was trying to fix was the noise. 

What I did was I got a 7mm bolt (which is slightly larger than a 1/4" bolt) and locknut. I got a bolt with an unthreaded portion that was long enough to go all the way through the friction plate. I filed the shaft of the bolt down so that it just fit into the hole in the shaft and friction plate. I then cut two pieces of plastic from the clear molded packaging that is so difficult to get into that you end up hurting yourself. This plastic is very tough. I cut two pieces to use as shims, one on each side of the shaft. I found plastic the right thickness so it was a hand press fit to put the shaft into the friction plate, then I installed the close fitting bolt I had made with some washers and the locknut. Everything was covered in anti-seize before assembly. I reinstalled everything and the reverse friction plate ran true and no more annoying bell sound. 

I wouldn't recommend packing the gap with JB Weld, it would be hard to center the shaft and it would make future disassembly difficult.


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