# SnowMaster 824QXE



## Sparky78

This is an interesting looking new machine. Sounds like it should be very fast in the light snow falls. What would be the downfall? I have a 2.5 car wide drive and 6-8 cars. It is concrete. Looking at the Ariens Compact 24 and Deluxe 24 also the Powermax 724. This looks like a machine when we get 2-4 inches it will just be stupid fast. But what about when we get 10-12 or I have drifting. Like the idea it cleans like a single stage, but has more power. Anyone have any thoughts??


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## cbnsoul

Ok, first, I know you are tired of hearing from me. :facepalm_zpsdj194qh when these were announced, I was excited at the thought of what amounts to a 1 1/2 stage. After looking at them in person, I'm not so sure. They are fairly long so feels like using them would be comparable to using a 2 stage rather than a single stage. It is much lighter than a traditional 2 stage, though. Like anything else, there are trade-offs but maybe more than are worth it - unproven design, not as good at deep snow as a 2 stage, slower than a single stage in lighter snows. As we've discussed in other threads, the 13" tires are small and worry me plus not sure how the Personal Pace is going to work on a snowblower.


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## Sparky78

cbnsoul said:


> Ok, first, I know you are tired of hearing from me. :facepalm_zpsdj194qh when these were announced, I was excited at the thought of what amounts to a 1 1/2 stage. After looking at them in person, I'm not so sure. They are fairly long so feels like using them would be comparable to using a 2 stage rather than a single stage. It is much lighter than a traditional 2 stage, though. Like anything else, there are trade-offs but maybe more than are worth it - unproven design, not as good at deep snow as a 2 stage, slower than a single stage in lighter snows. As we've discussed in other threads, the 13" tires are small and worry me plus not sure how the Personal Pace is going to work on a snowblower.


cbnsoul not at all tired of hearing from you. Actually suprised theres this much activity on a snow blower forum in August.....lol. I guess im not the only one who plans ahead. 2 stage is very proven just interesting to see a new spin on it. Still leaning to a Compact 24., the deluxe may be too wide for my application. The compact is going to be close.


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## Slinger

So with this self propelled machine comes the necessity to de-couple the auger from the pavement using skid shoes (auger does not touch the ground) like all 2 stage machines. Do you think that the compression loaded scraper bar will be sufficient to clean to the pavement (as advertised) as well as a traditional SS design where the rubber edged auger makes constant contact with the ground? 
Also the auger shape is a departure from the powercurve design. Do you think that the more traditional helical shape with small flat center section will be better than the powercurve shape for EOD piles? 

cbnsoul: since this unit does not contact the pavement the skid shoes would prevent the center flat section from hitting the grooves in your sidewalks, right?


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## cbnsoul

The scraper isn't really what I expected. It has fins on the bottom to strengthen it but I'm afraid it might catch on the drive grooves , although I think it's unlikely. The auger at least won't be an issue. 

The way I see it, the SnowMasters are kinda the best and worst of both worlds. Not as maneuverable as a single stage but not as capable as a 2 stage. In fact, they claim it's faster than using a 2 stage but it feels like a light two stage - it's long and still fairly heavy, especially when comparing it with a 721.


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## Slinger

If they had a remote control for the chute deflector as well as the included quick chute control I probably would already own a 721QZE. I could probably get by with it for all of my snow throwing needs and it's small and light enough that in the summer I can carry it down to by basement to free up space in the garage.


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## cbnsoul

Think you pretty much need one of the new Hobda SS to get the remote chute deflector but I know on last year's models it was a difficult adjustment. Supposedly if it is lubricated correctly, it worked better. The lever on the one on display at Hone Depot (and therefore probably NOT lubed correctly) is hard to move.


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## tbl01

I was looking two get a two stage machine to accompany my current Toro CCR Powerlite. The things a beast for such a small machine, but of late in NY with the larger snowstorm events, I find myself muscling the machine to get it thru the deeper wet stuff and the EOD snow is a PITA.

From the one review I did read over at Movingsnow.com with the 724QZE, it does move a 5" snow event nicely, with the 824 adding some more HP/TRQ it should be even better.

I would like to have one machine to maintain rather then two. I have seen the Toro 721RC SS in action and it does a nice job with most storms, I can only see this unit doing better with the extra CC engine, the powered wheels, and its still fairly light compared to a 2 stage which would be great for my wife who on occasion takes care of the driveway when I am out plowing.

I really think this will be a winner, for the right conditions.


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## tdipaul

I do as well. 

Especially if the wife is going to use it too.


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## Riverpilot

I stopped by my local Toro dealer, who are fantastic people, and saw the snowmaster. It really is an interesting, to me, snowblower.

I look at it as a bigger single stage instead of a smaller 2 stage. The thing that I was thinking on was the EOD crap that I always get. It's like the plows throw it extra deep in front of my drive. lol 

The dealer, who I trust completely, said they had tried one out this past spring, and it went through a bank of snow that had turned into ice chunks, etc.. very well. 

Now, will it turn out to be a great machine or a bust? I dunno. I'm down to either this machine, or a Honda 720. My problem with the Honda is I only have 1 local dealer, who isn't that wonderful. Basically the kind that adds charges onto everything, and puts a sales ahead of anything else.

Where as the Toro dealer I go to, is what you see is what you get. Doesn't charge extra for this or that, and will actually be honest to the point of rather losing a sale than sell something they don't believe in, or think the customer doesn't need.


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## scrappy

I cannot see the point of a 24 SS that will not scrape down to the pavement. Toss in the price of $950, a real 2 stage seems to make more sense. 

Best of both worlds for me would be both a larger (28) for the deep heavy stuff, and a nice lite weight compact SS for the 3 to 4 in stuff, and that wifey pooh can use.


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## Riverpilot

It's $650, $750 or $850. A real 2 stage doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me considering most of the snow I get is in the 2-8" variety.

It's the EOD that kills me. That, and I don't have the room for two separate machines. 

Like I stated, this seems like a good machine for someone like me where a 2 stage doesn't make sense. I'm sure I could get by with a regular single stage, and just do like I do now and kind of power my way through EOD, but, unfortunately I'm getting a bit older, and parts are wearing out on me. lol 

Maybe I need to take myself to the store and get new parts installed? lol..

Have a great one all!


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## scrappy

This where I saw the price of $950. Lot of coin for SS.

Toro | SnowMaster 824 QXE (36003)


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## Zavie

I can't get excited about the SnowMaster at all. I like the larger Toro single stage models but the smaller 2 stage models, not so much. I was at the hardware store today and they had a Toro Power Max HD 826. Nice machine, very nice.Toro | Power Max HD 826 OXE (38805) I could get excited about that.


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## Riverpilot

scrappy said:


> This where I saw the price of $950. Lot of coin for SS.
> 
> Toro | SnowMaster 824 QXE (36003)


Yeah, Toro has their MRSP. Go to any dealer or on-line big box and check the prices, they're all $100 less.

I'll wait a couple weeks and think about it, but it'll be either this or the Honda SS.


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## Slinger

I'm looking at the same 2 machines mostly because they both seem to be the only non-MTD offerings in single stage that have remote chute rotation and deflection. I looked at the Snowmaster for hours at my local HD and am convinced that this machine will be just about as easy for me to use as a traditional SS. My only concern is that when the Snowmaster's skid shoes are adjusted to where the scraper is touching the ground, there is still about a 3/8" gap between the auger and the ground. This design depends completely on the scraper to clear to the pavement. If you're blowing light fluffy snow I'm sure that is no problem, but what about over hard packed snow? Can it clean as well a traditional SS where the auger makes almost constant contact and aggressively scrapes the pavement clean?


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## Zavie

The SnowMaster is trying to be both a single stage, (partially), with it's center rubber strips and a 2 stage EOD eater with the hybrid metal auger. I'd love to see it in action. Probably won't clean all the path to pavement. My issues with it are price, no reverse and tiny wheels. Prepare to still do some pushing when you hit the EOD because those wheels will slip. Maybe Toro will offer optional tire chains, (of course at Toro prices) for those who want more traction. Most snowblowers are a compromise in either features or price or both. It's hard to get everything you want on the brand you might like. You have to decide what is more important, cleaning all the way to pavement or chomping up the EOD and whether you want to have powered drive wheels. That's why some of us in the snow belt have two machines.


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## Slinger

Zavie said:


> Most snowblowers are a compromise in either features or price or both. It's hard to get everything you want on the brand you might like.


AMEN ON THAT!!!! :iagree:


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## NJHonda

Just bought a 724 QXE (one hp less then the 824)and think its going to be a perfect machine. Its very light 125 lbs so you don't need reverse(like any single stage unit) and the single stick chute adjustment works great. Can't wait for winter now. BTW Home Depot sell the 724 for $750. Its a great compromise for us in the areas that only get 10" or less and want the drive power of a 2 stage but the speed and down to the concrete cleaning of a single stage,. And it is light and small enough to take down the basement after the season, some I cannot ever do with a 2 stage. Looks like a winner to me!


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## mobiledynamics

Lugging it down a basement during the seasonal changes
Ouch ;-/


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## NJHonda

mobiledynamics said:


> Lugging it down a basement during the seasonal changes
> Ouch ;-/


its not bad. Thats where its at now. I made a 3/4" plywood ramp for the steps down, put down the ramp and lower it down by rope on the handle. its really pretty easy
:icon-hgtg:


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## mobiledynamics

I presume no garage ?

Surely a small shed, as in really small just enough for the 2 SB is still better than bringing it up or down into the basement. I guess a spring to do project for next year :icon_whistling:


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## NJHonda

mobiledynamics said:


> I presume no garage ?
> 
> Surely a small shed, as in really small just enough for the 2 SB is still better than bringing it up or down into the basement. I guess a spring to do project for next year :icon_whistling:



Have a garage and a large shed. Both are full. The garage with a classic musclecar and the shed with other lawn equipment i cant get in the basement. This is what is in the garage, no room for anything else . In all seriousness, its not that bad getting a 125 lb blower up and down the stairs


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## Hanky

Yes the car needs the garage for sure.


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## jeepguy03

I think the snowmaster will be a hit. Toro single stage machines are very powerful for their size. In fact, the only limiting factor on my CCR Powerlite seems to be the height of the intake. The snowmaster has a taller bite as well as plenty of power. The personal pace will be interesting in the snow, but I haven't tried it so I wouldn't know how well it works.

I think that machine will be perfect for people with smaller driveways (70% of my neighborhood), areas that don't get snow 2 feet at a time, and those who want something simple to use. I've been maintaining and repairing snowblowers for a little over 10 years now as a side business. Most of the complaints I hear are about machines that are too heavy or complicated to use. I get a few calls every year from elderly and female customers when the first snow hits. They haven't used the machine all year and usually can't figure out how to start it, or they broke a shear pin and can't figure out why the augers won't turn.

If it cleans down to the pavement, then municipalities might like it too because that is less salt they will have to use and clean up will go faster. Honestly, my only fear is the personal pace. It works great on the recycler mowers, but then again the mowers aren't trying to push through snow.


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## NJHonda

good point about the lack of sheer pins in the new Toro snowmasters. Love it. I agree on them being a hit too. No shift lever to pick a speed, no left and right controls to turn, just simple lightweight effective snow removal. Its what I am looking for in a blower. Too big and slow and cumbersome is useless to me.


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## tdipaul

Took the *Snowmaster 824 QXE* plunge today!

I've been considering all sizes/makes/models but when push came to shove couldn't justify anything bigger or more $$. Being a little more robust than a single stager I'm hoping this will handle the EoD better. *Can't wait for snow!* 

Set up was easy and the build quality is very good. 

Some pics and a video of the first start...





Super Recycler has a new brother. Hey, "if it ain't red leave it in the shed" 



First start: 
(thankfully there's no lean surging going on; it runs good)


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## Hanky

Looks good let us know how it works out.


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## NJHonda

wow very nice. I have not started mine yet.. Waxed it, yes, started it, no


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## cbnsoul

tdipaul congratulations! I know you've been looking at blowers of the last several months.

II have the same mower and also use the ethanol-free canned gas (can't get ethanol free anywhere around here otherwise).

Did your dealer carry the 824? Ours did not, only the 724 QXE so I would have had to either order it from them, Home Depot or Snowblowers Direct. I think you did the right thing going with the bigger engine. While I looked at the Snow Masters long on hard, I went the traditional route (and spent a ton more in the process!) 

Say hello to my little friends:


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## tdipaul

Thanks Hanky/NJHonda/cbnsoul

cbnsoul: 

I was really set on a PM H-D like yours (congrats, it's beautiful btw!) but garage space is limited and also wanted a larger backpack blower for the yard. So a Husqvarna 150BT came home as well and the total for both was just under wifey's budget limit. 

The dealer had only one 824 so figured why not

Looking forward to seeing how she performs at the EoD :hope:


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## bwdbrn1

Isn't is a good feeling when they start like that for the first time?

Did you happen to engage the auger and take a test drive up and down the driveway with it? I'm really curious to know how the Personal Pace feels and works on these.


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## tdipaul

It's the best!

I did engage the auger and also drive it around some. 

The personal pace works exactly like the mower's system.


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## tdipaul

Since the engine does not have an alternator I transferred the LED light off of my bicycle tonight. 

The mount is an MT-204 from Action LED Lights: Computer / Headlight Mounts â€“ Action-LED-Lights



attached to the middle crossbar...



A 1600 lumen Xeccon Spiker 1210 light:



The 5200Mah battery that comes with the 1210 lasts >3 hours on high. Mounted it to the middle of the handlebar...



Indoor shot...




Outdoor shots...


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## NJHonda

I like it it paul! Im gonna do the same

update... Wow $100 for that light?


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## tdipaul

_I like it it paul! Im gonna do the same

_Awesome, post your setup when completed can't wait to see it! 

_update... Wow $100 for that light?_ 

Yes it is high (if that's what you're inferring) but it got great reviews and is of good quality. Prices have come down some since 2014 for all LED's though 

Review: Xeccon Spiker 1210 - Mtbr.com

There are tons of alternatives on eBay and Amazon for less so I tried one. This was only $24 shipped...

1200LM 4 Modes T6 LED Bike Bicycle Front Head Torch Lamp Headlamp Headlight | eBay

The light itself is fine but watch out for the batteries. On these budget models they are nowhere near the quality (or capacity). In fact the battery is already dead and unable to fully charge now. Not even a year old. And the plugs are different so can't use the good Xeccon battery with it either. 

*Two of these smaller Xeccon Spiker 1211's with one mounted on each side would be killer!!
*
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xeccon-Spik...953858?hash=item25a8c02202:g:mHMAAOSwyQtVjGZN


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## NJHonda

I got your mount and this ebay light for mine..

5000 Lumens 2X CREE XM L U2 LED Cycling Bike Bicycle Light Headlamp Headlight | eBay


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## tdipaul

Holy cow 5000 lumens! 

It might just melt all the snow away lol

Looking forward to seeing it mounted up


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## NJHonda

heh heh:icon_whistling:



tdipaul said:


> Holy cow 5000 lumens!
> 
> It might just melt all the snow away lol
> 
> Looking forward to seeing it mounted up


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## NJHonda

just got this little light today. Three settings and the high is absolutely blinding.. whoa. Never seen a brighter light for its size. Dont have the mount yet.


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## Slinger

Do you guys notice how smooth and quiet this 252cc engine is on the 824QXE? It seems sedate compared to the Briggs 250 on my Ariens Platinum 24. I don't know if it's an improved muffler or the vibration dampening engine mounts or what but this thing is smooooth! I just hope the personal pace drive is not too jerky in real use. I noticed you can pop wheelies if you push the handle a bit too quickly!


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## MagnumB

Well...if we are starting a light war, well darn, I'm moving my 30" Rigid LED light bar from my truck and onto my snowblower. Practicality aside, I think I have a shot at winning  Hahahah

Edit: don't suppose the 12v car battery I'll have to hang on my snowblower will negatively impact balance eh? Nevar!


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## NJHonda

heh heh


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## NJHonda

NJHonda said:


> just got this little light today. Three settings and the high is absolutely blinding.. whoa. Never seen a brighter light for its size. Dont have the mount yet.


Drug out the blower tonight and turned on the headlight I cobbled up for it.. Pretty nice for a $19 ebay LED light, huh?


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## tdipaul

looks nice 

when there's snow all around it'll seem even brighter


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## MagnumB

Slinger said:


> Do you guys notice how smooth and quiet this 252cc engine is on the 824QXE? It seems sedate compared to the Briggs 250 on my Ariens Platinum 24. I don't know if it's an improved muffler or the vibration dampening engine mounts or what but this thing is smooooth! I just hope the personal pace drive is not too jerky in real use. I noticed you can pop wheelies if you push the handle a bit too quickly!


Somewhere along the way, I read that the toro premium engines would have a focus on a counterbalanced crankshaft. Everyone does it to some degree, but some do it better, enter Toro and this new (or recent introduction of engines) it's not your imagination. I really think they are working hard to maintain a premium feel/more comfortable user experience. The Briggs in my 1128 feels like a Briggs if you know what I mean...powerful, reliable etc, but always a titch rough around the edges. Now imagine a company like toro realizing that a focus on internal inertial parts balance could quite simply make them feel better than the other guys machine. 

That's the toro touch. I'll see if I can provide some supporting documentation, but I warn you, I'm ADHD...if I don't do it immediately, it's unlikely to happen. (So sad, but so very true)


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## tdipaul

New S-M video by Paul Sikkema at MovingSnow:


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## NJHonda

A heck of a review Paul.. Nice


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## Slinger

Got my first opportunity to use my Toro 824 Snowmaster on about 4" of the fluffy stuff last night (cold temps here in the Midwest). Not much of a demanding test but enough to get some initial impressions. For your first few uses, the machine can seem kind of "jumpy" with the personal pace system. It takes a few passes before you learn how to initiate the drive by a gentle push along with some upward force on the handle to keep the front end in contact with the ground. It sound complicated but after a few passes it becomes second nature and extremely simple. Handling is as easy, if not easier than my traditional SS machine...truly effortless. The chute control moves SO easily that it takes a while to learn how to NOT overshoot where you are trying to aim at. I'm sure with time the joystick concept becomes second nature as well. The snowplow delivered me a moderate EOD pile of thick chunky stuff (but not big frozen ice chunks). The 824 handled that with no issue, although perhaps not as easily as my 2 stage would have. I never lost traction anywhere, but again this was only 4” of snow. I must say that the scraper bar did catch on a few places where my drive transitions from asphalt to concrete and where there are “step-like”, sharp transitions in pavement height. I have the skid shoes adjusted for a pretty aggressive scrape though. I drove my car out of the driveway to create some packed-down tire tracks and the machine did not clear those tracks to the pavement on a first pass or even a second pass. This is something that even my traditional SS would not always do cleanly and consistently, even with the direct-to-the-ground-rubber auger on that machine, so I’m not holding that against the 824 at this point. We’ll have to see with further snows and differing conditions but so far I’m a happy camper with this machine.


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## NJHonda

thanks.. so far no snow here in Jersey but it looks like Feb is going to be more snow like


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## tdipaul

looks like 3-5" coming on Saturday woo hoo!


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## tdipaul

New vid of an S-M throwing some EoD type of snow...


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## steeve725

Looks like it throws deep snow pretty far, however it looks like toward the end of the video, the snowmaster is leaving some snow on the ground and simply driving over it, not clearing to the pavement.

I have been watching all these videos, and reading reviews, etc before deciding on this snowmaster.

With my house facing north, having a 3 car large driveway, it is crucial for me to get a snowblower that clears right to the pavement. 

I will replacing my old perfectly running ccr2000 next winter for hopefully this 824.


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## NJHonda

it made its way thru 12-14" wet snow and barely lost 200 rpm! Looks like another winner Toro! Looks like some naysayers here are going to be eating crow real soon too as we are expecting snow Friday into saturday



tdipaul said:


> New vid of an S-M throwing some EoD type of snow...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tjcg5e8HGE


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## NJHonda

looks like he pushed down slightly on the handlebars causing this. 



steeve725 said:


> Looks like it throws deep snow pretty far, however it looks like toward the end of the video, the snowmaster is leaving some snow on the ground and simply driving over it, not clearing to the pavement.
> 
> I have been watching all these videos, and reading reviews, etc before deciding on this snowmaster.
> 
> With my house facing north, having a 3 car large driveway, it is crucial for me to get a snowblower that clears right to the pavement.
> 
> I will replacing my old perfectly running ccr2000 next winter for hopefully this 824.


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## tdipaul

steeve725 said:


> Looks like it throws deep snow pretty far, however it looks like toward the end of the video, the snowmaster is leaving some snow on the ground and simply driving over it, not clearing to the pavement.
> 
> I have been watching all these videos, and reading reviews, etc before deciding on this snowmaster.
> 
> With my house facing north, having a 3 car large driveway, it is crucial for me to get a snowblower that clears right to the pavement.
> 
> I will replacing my old perfectly running ccr2000 next winter for hopefully this 824.


My house faces north as well and its always been an issue no matter the machine (1St or 2St). 

As much as I dislike using it a little ice melt helps a lot.


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## tdipaul

NJHonda said:


> it made its way thru 12-14" wet snow and barely lost 200 rpm! Looks like another winner Toro! Looks like some naysayers here are going to be eating crow real soon too as we are expecting snow Friday into saturday


 Yes it seems to have quieted down some now that there are videos out. 

The snowfall forecasted for Saturday has been upped to 5"-8" so we'll find out for ourselves soon enough


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## NJHonda

tdipaul said:


> looks like 3-5" coming on Saturday woo hoo!



My latest pay forecast for work say 9.7"


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## Michael303

Just came across this. 






Looks like it throws snow well but the personal pace jerks on the start a lot and lifts the front a bit.


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## tdipaul

its not the machine, its the operator

Like the car driver who varies speed in between 52 and 62, with one foot on the gas and the other resting on the brake.

The truck driver who's ill-timed clutch-less shifting rattles the entire chassis, and occasionally snaps yokes 

Or the heavy equipment operator who slams the side of a dump truck with his bucket

Some people are just smoother than others.

He and machine are moving at pretty good clip though!


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## Michael303

I rewatched your video and you definitely seem to handle it better. I'd definitely like to try before buying.

Does it have a metal or rubber scraper bar to clear to the pavement? It seems to clear to the pavement well. 

Can the Skids be raised? I'd love to be able to raise them a bit to clear the backyard for the dogs. Maybe I could find some bigger, longer skids for turf and gravel.



tdipaul said:


> its not the machine, its the operator
> 
> Like the car driver who varies speed in between 52 and 62, with one foot on the gas and the other resting on the brake.
> 
> The truck driver who's ill-timed clutch-less shifting rattles the entire chassis, and occasionally snaps yokes
> 
> Or the heavy equipment operator who slams the side of a dump truck with his bucket
> 
> Some people are smoother than others.


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## tdipaul

My name is Paul but that's Paul Sikkema's video. He's got a nice website dedicated to OPE. Lots of good info on all the blowers inc the S-M...

2015 Toro SnowMaster 824 QXE Test on Pavement, Gravel and Turf. It Snowed! - MovingSnow.com

I own the same machine and with 14"-20" coming to CNJ tomorrow it will definitely be a good test. Its the maiden voyage so we'll see. 

Will shoot some videos and post them here tomorrow evening.


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## Slinger

Michael: It's a poly-scraper bar that has a bit of give in it that does a pretty good job clearing to the pavement if the snow hasn't been driven over or trampled on too much. The skids are adjustable but not to the same height that 2 stage units can be raised. Hope that helps.


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## NJHonda

I find if you grab the top of the personal pace bar, it will hold the front end down and allow the scraper to do it thing too


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