# Retrofit Powered Chute for Older Models



## snowhog

I got tired of leaning down to turn the chute rotation crank on my older (6-7 years old) Honda HS928 Track Drive Blower. I originally fitted a Bosch drill motor connected to a 12 volt SLA battery (8 Amp Hour). It turned the chute too fast regardless of the speed setting. I could not aim the chute where I wanted. The solution was to install a 12 volt seat adjustment motor. It works great. I only had to drill 1 hole into the machine for the entire assembly and I can go back to the manual crank in 10 minutes or less if I have system failure. I still use the battery and have used it through a few storms with about an hour each storm and the battery is still charged enough. I do use a battery charger designed for the SLA battery to ensure long life. I may try to utilize the blower's 12 volt system later by installing a rectifier to convert from AC to DC power, but for now it works well.

I',m trying to design some limit switches so that I don't have to watch the rotation position as I do now as it will blow a fuse if I hold the rotation switch (a cheap SPDT) too long when the chute meets the stops. I originally used a 5 amp fuse but it blew often. The 7.5 amp fuse used now has been working well and does not blow as quickly as the 5 amp one. The motor itself is rated at 1.5 amps, but I'm sure that is without a load. If anyone has suggestions for the limit switches and how to wire them I would appreciate it.

The materials used were a pice of flat stock steel for the bracket, 1/2" copper tubing for the linkage and a few cotter pins. Nothing is modified on the machine and existing bolts are used for the battery bracket.

Total cost was about $25 for everything. Well worth the money.

Here is the YouTube video.


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## chaulky45

*Nice Job*

Nice job on the 928,never know whos going to come up with what for the blowers


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## sidegrinder

Maybe just used one of the little 12v circuit breakers instead of the fuse? They self reset fairly quickly.


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## YSHSfan

sidegrinder said:


> Maybe just used one of the little 12v circuit breakers instead of the fuse? They self reset fairly quickly.


Yes, that would be one answer to the issue, insted of the 7.5 amp fuse you can use a 3 to 5 amp circuit breaker and you should be good to go (the circuit breaker would be your limit switch).

My Yamaha Ricky with power chute rotation has (if I am not mistaken :facepalm_zpsdj194qh) a 25 or 30 amp circuit breaker as a limit switch, but it has a fairly strong mechanical limit to work together with the circuit breaker.


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## snowhog

Thanks for the suggestion. Sounds a lot easier than wiring up switches.


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## bad69cat

You can get a bit fancy if you want: http://www.bpesolutions.com/bpemanuals/motor.limit.sw.pdf


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## SnowG

Fantastic job! Great use of materials. I would really appreciate if you could post some Hi-Rez photos showing details of how you did the motor bracket and attached the copper pipe.


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## snowhog

Here are some photos


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## SnowG

Thanks. Very helpful. With this mod, I'm thinking I don't have to lust so much after the new 2016 model.


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## JnC

Great work, we do need a bit more info on parts that were used though i.e. model of the motor etc. 

Any idea whats the draw by the motor? Wondering if it can be powered using the 50w 928 coil/circuit and eliminating the battery.


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## jrom

SnowG said:


> Thanks. Very helpful. With this mod, I'm thinking I don't have to lust so much after the new 2016 model.


Seriously, let us early adopters report on all the bugs, defects and poorly implemented design compromises [hopefully none*, or not too many there]. :redface: *Well, there is that reported/thought to be thinner gauge auger housing. (I'd like to know if it really is thinner than all of the design back to at least '91).

I would be in the same position if I didn't have to make a decision about _new snow blower_ or $3k spent _$200-$500 at-a-time spread out over a year or two._ :facepalm_zpsdj194qh


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## SnowG

JnC said:


> Great work, we do need a bit more info on parts that were used though i.e. model of the motor etc.
> 
> Any idea whats the draw by the motor? Wondering if it can be powered using the 50w 928 coil/circuit and eliminating the battery.


I think I found the same motor (or equivalent 190 RPM motor) at Amazon 




I ordered that and also ordered a switch 



and waterproof boot cover 




Half-inch copper pipe and cotter pins are hardware store items, if you don't have them lying around. 

I'm planning to experiment with the motor mounting a bit. I'd like to see if I can mount it higher up/back on the handle at the point where the top crank support is located on the stock machine. Won't know until I get the motor so I can understand the options better. 

Also, for mounting the battery I'd like to rig a horizontal bar of angle steel or aluminum between the handlebars by mounting it with a couple of clamps, then attach a small battery box to that.


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## JnC

I am trying to figure out how Honda has dealt with the limiting issue with the rotation. After looking at the diagrams from the new HSS model I do not see any sort of relay etc that would indicate a limiting switch that turns power off once the chute has rotated fully in either direction.


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## JnC

By the way rather than having a battery I feel like you can just upgrade your OE coils to the 50W HS928 coils and run the chute motor off of that, granted that would only work if the blower is running but I feel like thats providing power rather than a battery that would need to be charged occasionally.


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## YSHSfan

JnC said:


> By the way rather than having a battery I feel like you can just upgrade your OE coils to the 50W HS928 coils and run the chute motor off of that, granted that would only work if the blower is running but I feel like thats providing power rather than a battery that would need to be charged occasionally.


If you get a motor that does not draw too much power (within the engines charge output capability), you will be fine. I think that all the new HSS with no electric start do not have an on board battery.


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## db130

I think he opted for the battery as he had it lying around (meaning free).

How much is the 50w coil? $80+shipping?


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## SnowG

hsblowersfan said:


> If you get a motor that does not draw too much power (within the engines charge output capability), you will be fine. I think that all the new HSS with no electric start do not have an on board battery.


I noticed at the dealer that the factory chute rotation speed is rather slow, compared to what's shown in the OP's video of this mod. (I thought too slow). Perhaps that's due to a low-geared low-power motor? (I don't know). I prefer the faster speed, and don't mind using a battery. 

If the Honda coil is rated at 50w it should be able to support the motor linked above which draws 1.5A no load, but under load it might be too much (especially in the absence of a limit stop switch) and I would rather have a battery with resettable breaker.


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## SnowG

Here's a nice breaker that would work nicely. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FOW0UY?keywords=blue%20seas%20circuit%20breaker&qid=1452879435&ref_=sr_1_45&sr=8-45

If it could fit the same type rubber boot that covers the switch, I would mount it on the blower's control panel.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I would imagine an auto resetting bimetallic style breaker would be better suited. It could be run very close to the operating current of the motor. But it's really unlikely any type of current protection is required at all for something like this, especially if its run off a separate battery. If its run off the coil, the coil itself would limit current. All you would need to do is ensure you don't overload the coil long enough for it to burn, but that would likely take many minutes for this use.

Personally, I would use a motor that has say 50% more torque than required to operate the chute under ideal conditions, and not run any type of mechanical switch thats very prone to failure. This would mean the chute might not operate if its jammed up with ice, but thats probably OK. Torque reduction of an existing brushed motor is easy enough to accomplish by reducing its input voltage. This is slightly tricky since the output voltage of the coil is not constant, so you would almost need a tiny battery and voltage regulator to give constant torque and speed at various engine speeds and loading. It might be workable with a cheapie Chinese switch mode buck converter and significant input capacitance, to just run the thing right off the coil. Dial the voltage as low as practical to minimize power consumption. It might allow for the headlight to stay lit while the motor hits the endstop, but I guess if it drops out that would be an indication to let off the switch.

Personally, I would just weld some tabs onto the ends of travel of the chute so it has a hard limit and stalls the motor without jamming the gear. Probably grind some more teeth into the chute so you can get a bit more rotation while you're at it, minimizing the times you hit the limits anyways. As long as your switch does not stick on, it really shouldn't be a big deal to have no protection. Ideally a motor with inbuilt mechanical temp protection would be used, which is common in window motors in cars and the like.


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## snowhog

Thanks again for all of the great ideas. It sounds like many of you are looking to do this modification. Glad I could be of help. This forum has been very helpful to me and I'm glad to return the favor.


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## SnowG

snowhog said:


> Thanks again for all of the great ideas. It sounds like many of you are looking to do this modification. Glad I could be of help. This forum has been very helpful to me and I'm glad to return the favor.


Thanks again. 

The crank placement of the stock blower is the biggest ergonomic issue, and this addresses that (and the rotation speed is better than the 2016 model). The steerable tracks would be nice to have but I really don't find the non-steerable tracks too much effort on a hard surface, especially when in motion. Would I pay $1k difference to upgrade to the 2016 model? Not with this mod.


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## SnowG

JnC said:


> By the way rather than having a battery I feel like you can just upgrade your OE coils to the 50W HS928 coils and run the chute motor off of that, granted that would only work if the blower is running but I feel like thats providing power rather than a battery that would need to be charged occasionally.


Would that be AC power, or DC?


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## mikeinri

This is exactly what I've been looking for!!!

I have another thread going, but I've been looking around for ideas for a few weeks. This very closely matches the HSS idea, from the parts diagram I found. Two interesting things:

HSS models use a rotary motor and gear (cog not worm) to rotate. I love the idea in this thread for retrofitting/restoring in the event of failure.

From videos I've seen, HSS models still use a cable for the chute deflector, which appears to run to a second rotary motor, based on the parts diagram. Most DIY jobs use actuators.

Over on MTF, there's a thread on a really slick controls setup for electric chute controls on a Craftsman tractor-mounted snowblower. He set it up with full-rotation/auto-stop and momentary push-button switches for fine-tuning. He posted videos on YouTube showing the finished product, and one explaining the schematic he drew up.

Here's the link: http://www.mytractorforum.com/14-cr...r-snow-blower-lift-chute-direction-angle.html

I'd probably upgrade the coils and add a rectifier (assuming the motors can't handle AC).

Mike


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## snowhog

Do you have a link to that posting with the Craftsman tractor setup?


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## mikeinri

Added link to my last post. Couldn't find it when I was searching on my phone, when I originally posted.

Amazes me every time I look at that project!

Mike


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## snowhog

SnowG said:


> I think I found the same motor (or equivalent 190 RPM motor) at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005IR1NBA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
> 
> I ordered that and also ordered a switch http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LFVFA8?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00
> and waterproof boot cover http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BVXWFI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01
> 
> Half-inch copper pipe and cotter pins are hardware store items, if you don't have them lying around.
> 
> I'm planning to experiment with the motor mounting a bit. I'd like to see if I can mount it higher up/back on the handle at the point where the top crank support is located on the stock machine. Won't know until I get the motor so I can understand the options better.
> 
> Also, for mounting the battery I'd like to rig a horizontal bar of angle steel or aluminum between the handlebars by mounting it with a couple of clamps, then attach a small battery box to that.


This is the exact motor and company that I purchased from


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## SnowG

Here's a link to an article that shows how to wire the switch Motor Reversing Switches - Electronics in Meccano


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## mikeinri

That is, by far, the easiest way to wire them up. You do need switches that can handle the amperage, otherwise relays are a good idea to protect the switches.

What we need now is a good way to mount limit switches, without them getting fouled by snow/ice.

Mike


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## SnowG

mikeinri said:


> That is, by far, the easiest way to wire them up. You do need switches that can handle the amperage, otherwise relays are a good idea to protect the switches.
> 
> What we need now is a good way to mount limit switches, without them getting fouled by snow/ice.
> 
> Mike


Magnetic proximity switches, like those used in alarm systems on windows.


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## SnowG

While waiting for the motor to arrive I decided to start the battery bracket this weekend. I had a strip of mild steel bar laying around and decided to use it. It's 1/8" thick by 2" wide. You can buy this steel in the hardware section of Home Depot for a few bucks for a 36" strip. (In the section where they sell threaded rods and angle iron etc.). I measured 13" between the handlebars, marked the bend points, drilled the mounting holes (5/16" to accommodate the 8mm bolts already in the handlebars) cut the steel to 15" and bent the ends up at 13". Also drilled holes to mount a plastic battery box. 

I don't have a bending brake so I scored the bend line with a dremel cutoff wheel, then used a vise and finished it off with a 3 pound hammer. The bend radius will be sharper if you bend away from the score cut. I primed before bending, and then painted a finish coat with spray paint after bending and drilling. 

You may notice that there's a slight bow to the bar after mounting. This is because it's a fraction of an inch too long; because I didn't allow extra room for the radius of the bends. I might redo it at some point but for now it's "good enough".


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## mikeinri

Looks great to me.

Magnetic switches sound good, but won't they too be hampered by snow/ice accumulation? Again, I think it all comes down to placement/location, so I'm really trying to find an example where someone has done it successfully.

Mike


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## snowhog

I just remembered that the threaded holes in the seat motor were metric. I had to buy longer screws to accommodate the mounting bracket thickness. You can use a smaller SAE screw and nut if that is all you have, but the metric screws were easy to find locally.


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## mikeinri

I don't know about others, but I've never had issues finding metric fasteners. For box stores, Lowe's carries them, Ace has even more. Local hardware stores may have even larger selections.

Mike


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## SnowG

I don't think we need to use those holes. Will wait to see, as I don't expect to receive the motor until sometime next week. 

My thought is to use the hole in the handlebar that holds the factory upper crank support. The support would be removed leaving that hole for my motor mount. I would cut a 2x4" metal plate using the same bar stock I used for the battery bracket, drill two appropriate sized holes in that plate. One hole would mount the plate where the upper crank support is now, the other would be used to bolt through the two holes in the casting that's on the motor opposite the shaft. The motor would then be mounted in a horizontal orientation ahead of the right handlebar, and would be able to pivot so the motor shaft is inline within the pipe that runs forward to the chute. 

Maybe that's hard to visualize but I'll post photos in a few weeks when it's done.


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## SnowG

Surprised to find I received the motor today. The holes in the magnesium casting are 1/4" (maybe 6mm) and I can see my mounting idea will work fine. 
Expecting a nor'easter with significant snow this weekend so I'm not going to disassemble the factory crank now. Will wait until there's no snow in the forecast so I can do this project without time pressure.

BTW I'm surprised to see how compact this motor is. Hooked it up with some test clips to a battery and it's really got some serious startup torque.

Snow Hog - how did you drill the shaft?


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## snowhog

After putting a dimple on the shaft (between threads) with a punch I used a standard drill bit with a pilot tip and oil (not WD40). I drilled real slow and pulled the bit out often to clear the hole of metal fillings. I drilled the hole a bit larger than the cotter pin diameter so that there would be a little "slack" in the assembly. It went relatively fast. I thought the shaft would have been harder.


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## SnowG

Thanks. Will try that method.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I spent some time looking, and I don't see a better suited motor that's cheap. This method is a lot less complicated than I would have done, it looks like it could be slapped together really quick, so I will give it a shot. I'm going to run it off the stator with a headlight or two.


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## SnowG

ZOMGVTEK said:


> I spent some time looking, and I don't see a better suited motor that's cheap. This method is a lot less complicated than I would have done, it looks like it could be slapped together really quick, so I will give it a shot. I'm going to run it off the stator with a headlight or two.


How would you run it off the stator? Isn't the stator output AC? If yes how would you convert it to DC? 

Note: I know there have been some LED conversion threads I haven't looked at that might have the info, but the rated amperage of this motor is 1.25A no-load and SnowHog said he was blowing a 5A fuse. That's much more draw than LEDs.


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## ZOMGVTEK

A full wave bridge rectifier will 'flip' half the AC bumps over to make bumpey DC. Add some capacitors onto that to help smooth it out if need be, but a brushed motor won't really care anyways. Bridge rectifiers are very cheap and very common parts in most every power supply. You could rip one out of a wall wort, but its probably easier to just buy some for a buck. You could make a full wave bridge rectifier out of 4 diodes in the proper arrangement, if thats easier or cheaper.

I'd like to have more control over the speed, I'm thinking closer to 100-120 RPM is where I want it to be. The plan here is to run the motor off a CVCC switch mode converter, the kind often used for regulating current to LED's or charging lithium batteries. This would serve two functions, both be able to reduce the voltage to effectively adjust the speed down, and limit the current should the system jam up or hit the end stop. The current could be limited to just enough so that the chute operates, but if it hits something or bumps into the end, it won't take any more power.

And anyways, the stator probably won't physically generate enough power to blow a 5A fuse with this motor stalled. A stator isn't quite like a battery. The motor could probably run right off rectified stator output without problem. When the motor stalls, it would probably 'overload' the stator, but it would likely take something like minutes of this for the coil to burn, which is quite unrealistic. My concerns doing it this way is the headlight would drop out when the motor stalls, the chute speed would vary with engine speed, the motor would run REALLY fast with a 4000 RPM engine, and theres no speed control. But pop a cheapie DC LED driver in, and it should be possible to fix all of those things if its dialed in right.


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## SnowG

OK shaft is drilled. That went without a hitch. I started the hole with a 1/16" drill and switched to a 5/32" to complete the hole. Used oil. It went pretty quick. 
I did a test fit with some 1/2" copper pipe and I'm going to use some shrink tubing over the motor shaft to reduce noise.


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## snowhog

Nothing like a group project to generate some great ideas on how to improve on my original design. I can't wait to see what some of the "Generation 2" end results are.


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## SnowG

Thought occurred to me that by mounting the motor on the handlebar rather than the chassis, the linkage pipe and motor will be taking some strain if I pull up or push down on the bars enough for them to flex. (The stock crank can slide in the bracket when the bars flex.)

I need to change this up a bit. Will post some photos for my next motor mounting idea later.


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## mikeinri

ZOMGVTEK said:


> A full wave bridge rectifier will 'flip' half the AC bumps over to make bumpey DC. Add some capacitors onto that to help smooth it out if need be, but a brushed motor won't really care anyways. Bridge rectifiers are very cheap and very common parts in most every power supply. You could rip one out of a wall wort, but its probably easier to just buy some for a buck. You could make a full wave bridge rectifier out of 4 diodes in the proper arrangement, if thats easier or cheaper.
> 
> I'd like to have more control over the speed, I'm thinking closer to 100-120 RPM is where I want it to be. The plan here is to run the motor off a CVCC switch mode converter, the kind often used for regulating current to LED's or charging lithium batteries. This would serve two functions, both be able to reduce the voltage to effectively adjust the speed down, and limit the current should the system jam up or hit the end stop. The current could be limited to just enough so that the chute operates, but if it hits something or bumps into the end, it won't take any more power.
> 
> And anyways, the stator probably won't physically generate enough power to blow a 5A fuse with this motor stalled. A stator isn't quite like a battery. The motor could probably run right off rectified stator output without problem. When the motor stalls, it would probably 'overload' the stator, but it would likely take something like minutes of this for the coil to burn, which is quite unrealistic. My concerns doing it this way is the headlight would drop out when the motor stalls, the chute speed would vary with engine speed, the motor would run REALLY fast with a 4000 RPM engine, and theres no speed control. But pop a cheapie DC LED driver in, and it should be possible to fix all of those things if its dialed in right.


As for speed control... When I was looking up motors, Amazon popped this up as a recommendation/related item: 





Would something like that work for this application?

Mike


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## SnowG

My version 2.0 implemented (my version 1.0 didn't make it to production as noted above). 

I used a 1.5" wide by 1/8" thick piece of aluminum, 5" long. It is bolted at the bottom to the single bolt that attaches the electric start receptacle box to the engine block. At the top I used a 1/4" bolt to attach the seat motor magnesium casting to the strip. The strip is bent slightly at each end to move the electric motor away from the engine a proper amount. I cut the motor shaft, because it's so close. The copper pipe is now only 3" long.

I wrapped the motor in 3M electric tape to add weather resistance.

I works very well. Durability will be tested today and tomorrow. If this bracket doesn't hold up I have version 3 planned.


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## SnowG

Here's my idea for mounting version 3.0: You will need to cut the motor shaft for this. 

In my picture, notice the raised ring on the motor face around the motor shaft (shaft is covered in shrink tubing). 

The diameter of that ring matches the inside diameter of the shaft hole in the forward Honda crank mount bracket. 

All you need for version 3 is to fabricate a plate that has 4 holes to line up with the M5-30 screws that secure the motor face, and a center hole for the shaft. You'll also need four longer M5-35 or M5-40 screws to replace the original motor screws. Then you can sandwich the original bracket between the motor face and your fabricated plate.

(Your plate will need to be approx. 1.5-2" square. Note that the screw holes closer to the engine will need to be very close to the edge.)


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## SnowG

*Version 2.0 tested*

Today I cleared about 17" of snow, according to the weather service, and it was a good test of my retrofit powered chute. My version 2.0 mount worked great on my HS928TAS. 

I'm very happy that I no longer need to use that manual crank, which was too low and rotated in a counter-intuitive direction (clockwise to rotate the chute left, counter-clockwise to rotate right). 

HSS-envy is greatly reduced. Half the reason for an upgrade to the HSS is now a non-issue. The steerable tracks would still be nice, but not essential and certainly not as much of an issue as the crank. The other things like LED light and gas assisted height would be nice but just don't matter much, IMHO. 

One thing to note is that the chute rotation speed of this mod is much faster than the HSS I tested at the dealer, and is a better speed. I think the HSS is a bit too slow. 

Also, FYI I used a 10A circuit breaker and it did not pop even though I stalled the motor at its stops a couple of times. I don't think it's necessary to use the breaker as a safety for the motor. I used AWG #14 wire (marine rated tinned conductors) and #14 wire is rated for 25A so no worries about safety. 

Ordered a second power seat motor as a spare. At $15 why not?


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## SnowG

You won't need the speed control, IMHO. The rotation speed is just fine with the stock motor. 

Looks like you have a well equipped shop. I'm looking forward to seeing more images of your implementation.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I was thinking about a motorized chute, so this thread pushed me over the edge. I picked up a couple of the motors and they appear to be reasonably well suited for this application. They definitely represent good value too, presumably they are some sort of surplus motors. The screws for the face with the shaft coming out are M5x0.8, 30mm long. You can get away with using the stock screws if you use something thin, but a little longer wouldn't hurt. They are through holes, so you can run any length above that. I'm going to whip up a bracket to mount to the face and see how that works using existing holes on both the motor and machine.





































The shaft cut and drilled like butter using HSS, shouldn't be a problem with a hand drill. I can't find the cheapie CCCV regulator I thought I had, so it's going to be a few weeks before that shows up. I can cobble something together in the meantime, but I figure I might as well use cheaply available parts to see how they work should anyone else want to give it a shot. The initial test using a bench supply was encouraging. More than enough torque and good speed at ~10.5V while consuming ~15W with a small load. That should be totally fine to run off the stator with a headlight at full RPM, although last I checked I was getting just under 11V under a 17W load at idle, and my idle is a touch high. There is enough power there, just not at the right voltage, since the DC supply will drop about 1.5V from input to output. A boost buck converter might be able to fix it, but it would just about guarantee headlight dropout. I'll give it a shot and see how it acts. All this really means is it might not hold constant speed at idle, so it should be fine. And of course the lower the RPM, the lower the voltage and power available, so its more of an issue for an 828/928 than the 624/724.

This is the one I'm going with, it's easily found by searching "5A CVCC" on places like eBay. It's under $5 from China, but you can get it from US sellers if you want to pay more.


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## ZOMGVTEK

SnowG said:


> You won't need the speed control, IMHO. The rotation speed is just fine with the stock motor.
> 
> Looks like you have a well equipped shop. I'm looking forward to seeing more images of your implementation.


I assume you're running an external battery? The problem is right off the coil the voltage is dependent on the engine speed, and at full speed its kinda high. It would probably be about 15-16V under the load of the motor at full speed with a 624, and drop if the engine bogs. Plus, when the motor stalls the voltage is going to drop to a few volts, so a regulated LED headlight would drop out.

Ideally, with current limiting and voltage regulation the headlight would stay on at constant brightness, and the chute would maintain constant speed irrespective of engine speed or load while also being protected from stalls. Plus, the speed could be adjusted if desired. Plus the things $5 and 'fixes' the motor stall current consumption issue, while also limiting the torque the motor can make to avoid damaging things. These motors are a lot stronger than the average consumer would torque on the handle.


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## snowhog

SnowG said:


> Thought occurred to me that by mounting the motor on the handlebar rather than the chassis, the linkage pipe and motor will be taking some strain if I pull up or push down on the bars enough for them to flex. (The stock crank can slide in the bracket when the bars flex.)
> 
> I need to change this up a bit. Will post some photos for my next motor mounting idea later.


Since my actual mounting point on the handlebar is down low, there is minimal flex at that point. I don't think it will be a problem in the long run. That is why I drilled the hole in the motor shaft slightly large to allow for some movement. I do like your mounting location on the motor and will change mine if it becomes an issue. Since I had my light (aftermarket) mounted on the motor already it never occurred to me to mount the motor there. Generation 2 designs are usually better (except for "New Coke" and the "Mustang 2") and I happy to see that so many people are now contemplating the mod. I think Honda is going to lose a few sales of new machines because of it.


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## SnowG

snowhog said:


> Since my actual mounting point on the handlebar is down low, there is minimal flex at that point. I don't think it will be a problem in the long run. That is why I drilled the hole in the motor shaft slightly large to allow for some movement. I do like your mounting location on the motor and will change mine if it becomes an issue. Since I had my light (aftermarket) mounted on the motor already it never occurred to me to mount the motor there. Generation 2 designs are usually better (except for "New Coke" and the "Mustang 2") and I happy to see that so many people are now contemplating the mod. I think Honda is going to lose a few sales of new machines because of it.


Yes I noticed you had it down low. My gen-1 idea had it mounted fairly high and that's why I scrapped it for gen 2. I think there's room for improvement on the gen 2 mounting method I implemented.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I got it shoveled together today. It's more or less a demo setup, its poorly wired and not running the right regulator. It does work, although sometimes it falls on its face and has poor power. I suspect this is an artifact of a non current limited converter getting overloaded with insufficient input and output capacitance, it shouldn't be an issue in my final config. I plan on making a bracket out of aluminum to replace the polycarbonate one, and improve the rest of it, but it works. I cut two more teeth into the chute too.


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## SnowG

Very nice ZOMGVTEK. I like the bracket, and agree it will be even better in aluminum. Do you have some sort of CNC cutter? It looks so clean.


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## JnC

So clean , the right tools and the know how makes such a difference. I may have to hit you up down the road for that bracket, E. 

Any idea whats the motor drawing at full throttle? I ask as I intend on installing one of these on my 1332 project, the only issue is that I am pretty much maxed out with 30W hand warmers and two 10w LEDs on the machine .


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## YSHSfan

JnC said:


> The issue is that I am pretty much maxed out with 30W hand warmers and two 10w LEDs on the machine .


Install a small battery, fully charge it up, rewire your system to operate from the battery and you'll be good to go. 
You might be using the hand warmers all the time but not the headlight or the chute motor, it should give the charging system a break to keep the battery fully charged up. Worse case scenario it will be fully charged up again if you keep a battery maintainer when the blower is not in use. 
This (the battery) would also keep a more steady chute rotation speed regardless of engine speed.
Install a circuit breaker of 3-5 amps on the chute rotation motor circuit to keep it from causing any damage when it hits the stops.


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## SnowG

JnC said:


> So clean , the right tools and the know how makes such a difference. I may have to hit you up down the road for that bracket, E.
> 
> Any idea whats the motor drawing at full throttle? I ask as I intend on installing one of these on my 1332 project, the only issue is that I am pretty much maxed out with 30W hand warmers and two 10w LEDs on the machine .


A published spec on the motor is 1.25A no load and 25A peak load stalled. I'm using a 10A breaker and it hasn't tripped yet in normal use, and I've stalled it any number of times. I'm also using #14 AWG wire, which is 25A rated and my switch is rated 20A. The 10A breaker should be able to protect the switch, my "weak link".


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## YSHSfan

SnowG said:


> A published spec on the motor is 1.25A no load and 25A peak load stalled. I'm using a 10A breaker and it hasn't tripped yet in normal use, and I've stalled it any number of times. I'm also using #14 AWG wire, which is 25A rated and my switch is rated 20A. The 10A breaker should be able to protect the switch, my "weak link".


_*SnowG*_,

Are you using only the power from the charge coil or do you have a battery installed ?

If you are using only the power from the charge coil, it will not likely ever trip the circuit breaker as all it can produce is 3A (if that is what you have for charging coil, I'm just guessing), and it will need 10A+ to trip it which the charge coil is unable to produce (the motor would stall before reaching 10A load due to the lack of enough amps supply).

If you have a battery installed you will trip the circuit breaker as the battery has at least 200amps stored (depending on what size it is) and according to the specs for the motor it can draw up to 25amps at full load.


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## SnowG

hsblowersfan said:


> _*SnowG*_,
> 
> Are you using only the power from the charge coil or do you have a battery installed ?
> 
> If you are using only the power from the charge coil, it will not likely ever trip the circuit breaker as all it can produce is 3A (if that is what you have for charging coil, I'm just guessing), and it will need 10A+ to trip it which the charge coil is unable to produce (the motor would stall before reaching 10A load due to the lack of enough amps supply).
> 
> If you have a battery installed you will trip the circuit breaker as the battery has at least 200amps stored (depending on what size it is) and according to the specs for the motor it can draw up to 25amps at full load.


Not using the charge coil. I'm using a 7AH SLA (sealed lead acid) battery such as those commonly used for alarm system backup or UPS backups. I'm quite sure the battery can generate more than 10A.

(Edit -- I suspect I just haven't exceeded 10A long enough to trip the breaker. Maybe it's a slow trip breaker.)


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## YSHSfan

SnowG said:


> Not using the charge coil. I'm using a 7AH SLA (sealed lead acid) battery such as those commonly used for alarm system backup or UPS backups. I'm quite sure the battery can generate more than 10A.
> 
> (Edit -- I suspect I just haven't exceeded 10A long enough to trip the breaker. Maybe it's a slow trip breaker.)


I have a Yamaha YS240 (Ricky) with power chute rotation (window motor type) that has mechanical stops at each end of the geared part. 
It has a 25 amp circuit breaker in the system and I am pretty sure it trips at each end ot its travel.
The circuit breaker trip and reset within seconds, so maybe when you think the motor is stalling the circuit breaker may actually be tripping (unless we are talking about two different type of circuit breakers).

I could always be wrong about my thoughts :facepalm_zpsdj194qh


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## YSHSfan

ZOMGVTEK said:


> You could run the heated grips on a relay that kicks off when the chute motor is on. You shouldn't even notice the few second drop in heat.


I like that idea


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## ZOMGVTEK

Small resettable breakers are generally thermal, and require very considerable time beyond the rated current to trip. It could take a minute at twice the rated current to trip, or an hour at a few percent above the rated current, if it trips at all. It really depends on the specific model used, but they are designed to protect wire not generally equipment. The types of breakers used in your home are thermal and magnetic, the magnetic trip allows them to trip fast, but only when theres enough current to make a strong enough magnetic field in a coil that trips the breaker. This is generally around 10x the rated current, however. So a 20A breaker won't trip magnetically until about 200A, not exactly useful for this case. Fuses still generally respond faster, but I wouldn't bother putting any protection on a motor switched right to a small SLA battery.

Anyways, I didn't measure anything yet. I'm using a random DC-DC thats junk, its over current protection is really sensitive and it kept shutting down on the bench supply when switching the motor. I'd imagine it's only going to be worse running off the fluctuating coil output, which is likely why sometimes the motor will kick and not move. This motor is too big relative to the coil for just voltage regulation, but it should work very well with current regulation. I have it set for about 10.5V, which can't be that far off what you would expect out of a small SLA battery under load. And it does a good enough job of regulating speed.

I'll get some measurements today to see if I can run a headlight or pair of headlights with the motor. I'm thinking it's unlikely the coil would put out enough power to run the chute motor with heated hand grips and headlights at the same time. But, you could run the heated grips on a relay that kicks off when the chute motor is on. You shouldn't even notice the few second drop in heat. It should be possible to add more coils, or beef up the existing coil for more output too.


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## SnowG

I suspect this motor might have a self-resetting breaker inside or some other current limiting, but I'm only guessing.


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## YSHSfan

SnowG said:


> I suspect this motor might have a self-resetting breaker inside or some other current limiting, but I'm only guessing.


It may be possible.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Most small 12V motors for automotive have a thermal breaker inside. It _probably_ has one, since its more or less required for a powered seat motor, and likely cheapest to build into the motor. But this is only really to prevent the motor for burning up if its stalled too long. And in this application, off the coil it will never have nearly enough power to trip, off a small battery it might not trip.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I made a video to show how the coil handles various loads. Started off with 3 18W headlights, then 2, then 1. Below ~11V AC, the headlights are not full brightness, but still operate. In every configuration, the headlight flickers when the chute motor is initially kicked on. Not a big deal, and a bunch more capacitance should fix this.

One thing to note. This was done on a 624, which is designed to run 4,000 RPM. I set the speed to what sounds right, which is probably closer to 3,800. Every other machine, 724 included, runs at 3,600 and will put out a bit less power.

With 3 headlights, the system could barely cope. Even at WOT, it BARELY makes enough power to keep the headlights running full brightness most of the time. A little bog, or kick in the chute, and its going to dim the lights.

With 2 headlights, everything looks good even with chute use. At idle its a little borderline, and the chute is going to be slow, but it should be OK. 2 headlights and a chute motor is likely pushing it for lower speed machines.

1 headlight works no problem. The light has full power at idle, and enough power left to make the chute motor nearly run full speed. At WOT it has tons of overhead.

3 Headlights - Idle
10.5V 2.5A
3 Headlights + Chute - Idle
9.6V 3.0A

3 Headlights - WOT
11.6V 3.6A
3 Headlights + Chute - WOT
10.8V 3.8A

2 Headlights - Idle
11.0V 2.5A

2 Headlights - WOT
16.8V 2.0A
2 Headlights + Chute - WOT
12.5V 3.5A

1 Headlight - Idle
12.8V 1.2A
1 Headlight + Chute - Idle
10.7V 2.6A

1 Headlight - WOT
19.6V 0.8A
1 Headlight + Chute - WOT
15.6V 2.5A


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## mikeinri

Thanks for posting that!

Smoothing out would be great, but I think I could force myself to get used to the headlights dipping when the chute is rotating!

Mike


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## ZOMGVTEK

The lights and motor run on DC, so adding more, or larger capacity capacitors will have more power in 'reserve'. It can be totally eliminated with enough storage. A battery would do the trick too, but that adds some needless complexity. You'd need a charge circuit with a battery, which isn't that big of a deal, but it can mask issues and cause other problems. I would avoid a battery charging off the coil unless the charge coil puts out at least twice what your demand is. I just chucked one random junk cap on the motor. A quick measurement shows it needs to be about 5x larger at least, so this is kinda worst case.

You can really hear how rich my 624 is running. It was oddly warm that day, and the things jetted too rich to begin with. It runs great when it's -15ºF, but in 50's its popping all day.


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## SnowG

Updated with a different YouTube video here 




I really like the motor mount bracket done by *ZOMGVTEK* and may try to do something similar in the future.


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## mikeinri

Nice, keep the videos coming!

I agree, that bracket is nice. Is there any way to add a third plane to it (think of a 3-D corner brace)? That should help with fore-aft movement of the motor. Of course, a second mounting point on the blower wouldn't hurt either.

Also, do you have any ideas/plans to make or adapt something to use as a cover? I'd think I'd want to minimize the amount of snow and ice that can get to the motor.

Mike


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## SnowG

mikeinri said:


> Nice, keep the videos coming!
> 
> I agree, that bracket is nice. Is there any way to add a third plane to it (think of a 3-D corner brace)? That should help with fore-aft movement of the motor. Of course, a second mounting point on the blower wouldn't hurt either.
> 
> Also, do you have any ideas/plans to make or adapt something to use as a cover? I'd think I'd want to minimize the amount of snow and ice that can get to the motor.
> 
> Mike


If I do a bracket like that I'd mount the motor with the body upward. The 3M electric tape I used is good stuff. (I've used white and yellow 3M electric tape in outdoor applications and it lasts at least 2-3 years outdoors year round. The adhesive is stable and doesn't turn gooey.) 
I don't think you can seal the motor shaft entry but the innards are plastic gears that are well lubed. If you spray the outside of the gear casing with an anticorrosion coating and orient the motor body with the windings upward I think it would be enough to keep water from intruding into the electrical windings and contacts. You might also find a plastic tube or can that fits over the motor body nicely.


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## ZOMGVTEK

I'm not sure how well it will handle the bends, but I'll give this a shot in Aluminum. It should probably be steel, but I don't expect this one to be right.

The plan is to replace the factory bracket with this. I didn't take any measurements, and the machine isn't in front of me, so its a guesstimate.


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## jrom

SnowG said:


> The 3M electric tape I used is good stuff. (I've used white and yellow 3M electric tape in outdoor applications and it lasts at least 2-3 years outdoors year round. The adhesive is stable and doesn't turn gooey.)


I second you on the 3M w&y tape, especially like the yellow. 

I've been using a new tape (to me): X-Treme silicone self-bonding, no adhesive tape, that's working out really well so far. A bit expensive, but I recommend a try. Taped up some commercial grade jumper cables that are breaking up and so far they're going strong through the end of last winter and this winter so far.

$11.25 for 1" x 36' or $4.45 for 1" x 10'. amazon link: Robot Check


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## ZOMGVTEK

The self fusing silicone tape is really great stuff for waterproofing. It's spendy, but lasts forever.

3M Super 33+ is my go to electrical tape, but I wouldn't use it for something I need to be waterproof. It's going to slow down water intrusion, but it also could hold water in.


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## ZOMGVTEK

The bracket worked out fairly well. I pushed the motor a bit too far out, and had to angle the motor in a bit to get it to line up well, but it does line up quite well.


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## snowhog

As far as sealing the motor, I've had good results with this product from Rustoleum:
LeakSeal® Product Page

I've used it on a few other projects and a few thin coats seem to do the job. There is a glossy finish when dry, but it looks good. I may use it on my motor, but at this time I don't see a major issue with moisture and have used the new motor setup during a few snowstorms.


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## Pappa

ZOMGVTEK,

Are you using the "5A CVCC" with your setup? I cannot even get the DC motor to move when connecting to the stock lights wire (stator) on a 928. I'd like to avoid having to use a battery, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Pappa



ZOMGVTEK said:


> I was thinking about a motorized chute, so this thread pushed me over the edge. I picked up a couple of the motors and they appear to be reasonably well suited for this application. They definitely represent good value too, presumably they are some sort of surplus motors. The screws for the face with the shaft coming out are M5x0.8, 30mm long. You can get away with using the stock screws if you use something thin, but a little longer wouldn't hurt. They are through holes, so you can run any length above that. I'm going to whip up a bracket to mount to the face and see how that works using existing holes on both the motor and machine.
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> The shaft cut and drilled like butter using HSS, shouldn't be a problem with a hand drill. I can't find the cheapie CCCV regulator I thought I had, so it's going to be a few weeks before that shows up. I can cobble something together in the meantime, but I figure I might as well use cheaply available parts to see how they work should anyone else want to give it a shot. The initial test using a bench supply was encouraging. More than enough torque and good speed at ~10.5V while consuming ~15W with a small load. That should be totally fine to run off the stator with a headlight at full RPM, although last I checked I was getting just under 11V under a 17W load at idle, and my idle is a touch high. There is enough power there, just not at the right voltage, since the DC supply will drop about 1.5V from input to output. A boost buck converter might be able to fix it, but it would just about guarantee headlight dropout. I'll give it a shot and see how it acts. All this really means is it might not hold constant speed at idle, so it should be fine. And of course the lower the RPM, the lower the voltage and power available, so its more of an issue for an 828/928 than the 624/724.
> 
> This is the one I'm going with, it's easily found by searching "5A CVCC" on places like eBay. It's under $5 from China, but you can get it from US sellers if you want to pay more.


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## ZOMGVTEK

Pappa said:


> ZOMGVTEK,
> 
> Are you using the "5A CVCC" with your setup?


Yeah, it works well. Its not that critical to have any regulation at all, but it will give you slightly more torque without a battery if you run a regulator and drop the voltage down.

If you're not getting any movement at all, I assume you're powering the motor with the AC coming right off the coil, which will just heat up the motor and it wont rotate. You need to run a full wave bridge rectifier out of the coil output since this is a DC motor and the coil on the engine makes AC.


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## ZOMGVTEK

It's been a little while since I did this chute mod, so I can give an update on its performance.

Its been working extremely well lately, but I did have a few minor issues. The shaft going to the chute wobbles around a bit, and as a result eventually fatigues the wimpy bent nail holding it to the motor and that broke a few times. I jammed a big screw in there and its been holding for a while. All the wiring is still dangling around haphazard and hasn't been an issue. This machine gets moderate use, is run hard, and put it away wet. Most of the time its too cold for the snow to melt, so corrosion hasn't been a big problem. I recently coated the entire blower with fluidfilm and that appears to do a great job keeping things mostly protected and the chute lubricated.

I purchased a small supercap bank with the intent to slap it on the blower to help the chute power through ice and whatnot. However its been working well enough that I didn't bother yet. Its never stopped on ice or snow since putting the CVCC regulator on, even without a battery. The chute motor really helps speed up the end of driveway turn around, and allows for more precise chute aim than with the stock handle. I cut a few more teeth into the chute to get more rotation, and I still could use some more. Its nice to be able to run past the driveway and clear the EOD backwards.


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## jsup

Instead of a limit switch, you could do an incandescent bulb like a 194, when it dims, stop. 

As far as a limit switch, I'd use a relay and a magnetic switch. Like this:
MSS200-7: 3/4? Recessed Balanced Magnetic Switch ? Flair Security Electronics

No moving parts to go bad, and there's marine versions that are weather proof.

Maybe a proximity switch:
https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...tive_Proximity_Sensors/Rectangular_Harsh_Duty

Says "harsh duty" so it should withstand the elements.


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## [email protected]

Great job, I’d like to convert my HS928!!


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## mikeinri

Can we get a follow up from any of you guys who installed any of these chute motors? What do you like, dislike, would do differently now that it's been a few years?

Mike


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## snowhog

I'm the original "inventor" of the concept and original poster. The Generation 1 setup has worked flawlessly since I installed it and I have not had to replace any components other than replacing the fixed fuse with a resettable one. That was done as soon as another poster suggested it. I have not had that fuse blow once. A neighbor has a a new HSS928 and has commented how he wishes his machine's chute turned as fast as mine. I keep thinking about tying the chute electrical into the charge coil, but haven't yet found the need to do so with only the external battery powering the chute.


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## mikeinri

Cool, thanks! What's the longest stretch of time that you've run the blower with the battery powering the accessories?

Mike


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## snowhog

Not really keeping track, but usually run it throughout a storm (several days/multiple uses of the blower). I usually charge it when the storm is done and I park the blower until the next event. I've never had it go dead while in use. I have a circular driveway( so 2 wonderful berms of heavy slush) and several short runs that require frequent chute rotations. It seems to hold up well to the use.


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## mikeinri

Awesome, thanks again. 

Mike


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## Robroe

ZOMGVTEK said:


> I was thinking about a motorized chute, so this thread pushed me over the edge. I picked up a couple of the motors and they appear to be reasonably well suited for this application. They definitely represent good value too, presumably they are some sort of surplus motors. The screws for the face with the shaft coming out are M5x0.8, 30mm long. You can get away with using the stock screws if you use something thin, but a little longer wouldn't hurt. They are through holes, so you can run any length above that. I'm going to whip up a bracket to mount to the face and see how that works using existing holes on both the motor and machine.
> 
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> 
> The shaft cut and drilled like butter using HSS, shouldn't be a problem with a hand drill. I can't find the cheapie CCCV regulator I thought I had, so it's going to be a few weeks before that shows up. I can cobble something together in the meantime, but I figure I might as well use cheaply available parts to see how they work should anyone else want to give it a shot. The initial test using a bench supply was encouraging. More than enough torque and good speed at ~10.5V while consuming ~15W with a small load. That should be totally fine to run off the stator with a headlight at full RPM, although last I checked I was getting just under 11V under a 17W load at idle, and my idle is a touch high. There is enough power there, just not at the right voltage, since the DC supply will drop about 1.5V from input to output. A boost buck converter might be able to fix it, but it would just about guarantee headlight dropout. I'll give it a shot and see how it acts. All this really means is it might not hold constant speed at idle, so it should be fine. And of course the lower the RPM, the lower the voltage and power available, so its more of an issue for an 828/928 than the 624/724.
> 
> This is the one I'm going with, it's easily found by searching "5A CVCC" on places like eBay. It's under $5 from China, but you can get it from US sellers if you want to pay more.


Want to make this mod on my older hs928. Only thing I’m unclear on is the full wave bridge rectifier. There are so many types my head is spinning. Is this one that would work? Amazon.com

or do you have a link to the preferred unit?

thanks very much!


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## asavage

According to CamelCamelCamel, the price for the Amazon-supplied B005IR1NBA gearmotor was around $15 from 2012 until Mar2020, whence it shot up to over $30 for much of the intervening time. I bought one from Amazon last month at $34.

An alternate source is American Science & Surplus, where what appears to be the same unit is $15 + 9 shipping right now. I've just ordered two from them, just because. The Amazon-supplied units are nice; I hope the AS&S units are the same.

[later: received them; they are the same]

The correct mating power connector is pricey, ACDelco PT3156 19304003 (for NLA PT159), $17 -- and I can confirm that it fits:





. . . but nobody seems to have a cheaper one. If somebody comes up with the shell (housing) and terminal part Nos. for that connector, I'd be very interested. I spent a few quality hours with online catalogs and could not positively identify them. I was able to ID and order the connector and terminal parts separately, see below.

That connector/harness from ACDelco is not _required_, but it sure makes connecting to the gearmotor a snap. The male spade quick connects on the motor are 3/16" (technically, 4.8mm), which is not as easy to lay your hands on as 1/8" or 1/4" (I happen to stock 3/16" terminals, because they're used in Honda EU6500is/EU7000is generators that I've been modifying lately, and I even stock the 5/16" terminals because I occasionally use 50A 12v relays that use that size), but 3/16" can be ordered from the usual electronics suppliers, but probably not your FLAPS or hardware store. It was worth $19 to me to have a connector that I don't have to glue or tie-wrap in place to prevent accidental disconnection.

[later]

There's a very similar gearmotor @ eBay for $28 shipped with tax, whose primary visual difference is some protruding hardware at the back of the motor section. It uses what looks like the same or a similar connector, and the Seller lists the Packard->Delphi->Aptiv 12064749 as a mating connector; that's a Metri-Pack 480 Series (unsealed) and I can't currently confirm that it'll work with the Amazon-suppled unit, but comparing pictures, it does look correct.

*Housings*:
Amazon (pack of (10)), $12 (shipped)
eBay (lot of (10)), $8 (shipped)
Mouser 829-12064749, $0.72 ea. (plus shipping)

*Terminals*:
The terminals come in a variety of wire sizes; one of the part Nos. (for 12-14 AWG) is Aptiv 12065892-L, Mouser 829-12065892 , $0.35 ea. ((2) req'd.)

The ACDelco harness @ $19 out the door is a plug-n-play harness with ~16" of heavy (possibly 12 AWG) leads, so it's very easy to use.

But, since I ordered a couple more gearmotors from AS&S, I just ordered (5) housings and (10) terminals from Mouser for $17 total. I have a PressMaster and a load of dies for it, so I don't mind buying the terminals and rolling my own harness. I'll know next week whether the Aptiv housings and terminals fit the Amazon B005IR1NBA gearmotor.

[later still]

Yup, the Aptiv Connector Housing 12064749 & Terminal 12065892 fit the Amazon-supplied gearmotor B005IR1NBA.


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## asavage

Robroe said:


> Want to make this mod on my older hs928. Only thing I’m unclear on is the full wave bridge rectifier. There are so many types my head is spinning. Is this one that would work? Amazon.com













Rob, that Amazon-supplied unit is designed to go in a project box or something. You'd need to weatherproof it to use it.

OTOH, if you're just using the thrower's AC to power only a DC brushed motor, it's likely that only the actual bridge rectifier on that board is what you need, and they're quite weather resistant all by themselves.

If you buy from someone like Amazon, you're going to have to buy more than one, or pay a lot for one or two; bridge rectifiers are cheap items, typically under $2 retail, and Amazon doesn't deal in sub-$5 stuff much; they make you buy several of a thing in order to get above $5.

Canned Amazon search for bridge rectifiers

Any of the ones listed as "50A" should be robust. Personally, I would not run an unfused bridge rectifier in this situation that was rated for less than maybe 20A, since high capacity bridges are cheap and DC inductive kickback is a thing.










These ^^^ for $7 would likely work, though that's still paying for two you won't use.

Note: I do not know Honda throwers, have never seen one, and don't know how they supply AC. Someone with knowledge of them should pipe up and confirm. However, your question was about bridge rectifiers and that Amazon-supplied PCB that has a bridge, two caps, and some screw terminals (plus a superfluous LED and resistor) and I could answer that question.


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## vmax29

You can also use a power window motor. I used a Chevy Lumina motor on my Troybilt. It worked great. If I recall, I think it stopped automatically at full rotation.


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## mikeinri

Did you do anything to protect that motor from water, @vmax29?

Mike


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## vmax29

Just the couple coats of red paint. I never had any problems with water but it did hang below the controls where it stayed dry for the most part.


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