# Disc-O-Matic Drive -VS- Hydrostatic Drive



## trx680

Looking at the Ariens website I see their professional models have a choice of two drives. 

Anyone have any experience with both and can comment their opinion the two?


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## Kiss4aFrog

If I was going new I'd get a hydro. Used I'm a little leary of them simply because of cost to repair.
The disc drive is very old technology but the reason it's still the common system is cost and ease of maintenance and repair.

Some other peoples opinions: The "Friction Wheel" versus The Hydrostatic Transmission drive debate


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## micah68kj

I've not had any experience with hydro units but for the extreme low cost and the proven effeciency of the disc drives I'll hang with them. In over 20 years of moving snow I've never experienced any problems with them. JMHO


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## caddydaddy

The disc drive on my 1973 Ariens still pulls hard and works flawlessly! Proven technology and cheap to repair.


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## micah68kj

caddydaddy said:


> The disc drive on my 1973 Ariens still pulls hard and works flawlessly! Proven technology and cheap to repair.


Amen Brother! :wavetowel2:


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## detdrbuzzard

caddydaddy said:


> The disc drive on my 1973 Ariens still pulls hard and works flawlessly! Proven technology and cheap to repair.


and simple to make


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## E350

I am one of the newest members of this forum and have only this season's (rather heavy) use of snow blowers. So take what I have to say with the understanding of my relative lack of experience. That said:

I have an Ariens ST1032 wheeled snow blower with a disc transmission. And a Honda HS1132TA tracked snow blower with hydrostatic transmission.

Initially, I hated the Ariens' disc transimssion because I didn't like how it moved or wouldn't move under its own power. Especially in reverse. (I called it "pull assist" instead of "reverse").

I then bought the Honda hydrostatic because it is tracked and tracked is much better than wheels for my particular sloped dirt driveway, recreational residence when I can't get on it the next day after snowfall, application. 

The Honda hydrostatic works flawlessly, it is infinitely variable in forward speed. But realisticly I only use two forward speeds - either full speed (where I am doing laps - an electric chute rotator would be great then) or crawl (when I am obsessively compulsively scraping set up slush). (California only rarely has what Easterners call "ice.") Theoretically, the Honda is also likely infinitely variable speed in reverse, but realistically I only use full speed reverse - which is slow enough.

I then replaced the friction disc in the Ariens with one of those ~$13/free shipping Ariens OEM discs on ebay and adjusted the disc engagement/drive tension bolt. A very, very, very easy task to do. (If you watch a couple of youtube videos with coffee first.) 

WOW !!! What a difference that made on the Ariens! True reverse and however many forward speeds, all working flawlessly. 

Conclusion: The only practical thing that the Honda hydrostatic transmission has that is missing from the Ariens disc transmission is possibly the barely moving forward "crawl" speed. And that the Honda can be moved into a faster forward speed without stopping. The Ariens disc transmission needs the snow blower not to be moving before "shifting" into a higher forward gear. Bottom line, is that I would have no problem with either type of transmission. And replacing a disc and adjusting its drive tension is easy peasy.

It is my understanding that, at least the older, Yamaha tracked snow blowers are disc driven. Compared to the Honda tracked snow blowers which are hydrostatic.

On garden tractors I have a definite preference for hydrostatic drive and am in the process of becoming a "hydrostatic fanatic." Hopefully, I will never need to repair the Honda HS1132TA snow blower's hydrostatic transmission, but if I do I should have some knowledge about how to repair it by virtue of my now accumulating hydrostatic transmission experience with the garden tractors.

It just occurs to me that I should add this post to my Honda HS1132 vs. Ariens ST1032 comparison thread...


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## micah68kj

Very well written and concise, objective evaluation from someone who has experienced both systems. Thanks, E350.


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## Loco-diablo

I've owned 2 Ariens disco's over the past 25 years. I've never had a disco related drive problem on either machine. If kept in good order by replacing the disc every so often and making sure the adjustment is proper, this is a good drive system IMO.

That and the fact I'm to cheap to spend $2500 on a snow blower! 
I could buy 2 new disco's for the price of 1 new hydro. like i said, I'm cheap!


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## goal80

I own a hydrostatic snowblower. I had oil leaking from the hydrostatic transmission box.
I could successfully replace the seal lips that leak, add oil and purge.
However, it was not a very easy job... I'm a handy man.
Taking out the transmission itself was a hassle especially I couldn't find any online videos or any instructions to show how to take it out.
Also the snowblower manual has no information about the transmission.
So when repairing the transmission, you have to find the manufacturer and your model number of the transmission and start searching on the internet the parts manual, and the maintenance manual and your nearest dealer to buy parts.

From what I see, friction disc is easy to repair DIY, and you buy your parts from your snowblower parts manual

Operational: Hydrostatic is better, you have infinite of speeds between zero and the max speed.
Sometimes I need a very low speed which cannot be found with the friction disc.
Also you can change speeds and change forward and reverse without disengaging


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## Town

I have only used disc drive wheeled snowblowers, but I have used mechanical drives and hydrostatic drive on a lawn tractor. 

For a tractor the hydrostatic drive is an excellent system and far superior to the mechanical systems in its operation and ability to change speeds while negotiating obstacles, etc. 

For a wheeled Ariens snowblower there does not seem very much to be gained from hydrostatic drive since the disc drive is so simple to use and repair and the initial cost is far less with comparable ground speeds.

For a tracked Ariens Pro model snowblower the disc drive does not seem up to the job with ground speeds (according to Ariens) that are half those of the hydrostatic drive. That disc drive machine would be painful to use. The tracked machines with hydrostatic drive have about the same ground speed as a wheeled machine with hydrostatic or disc drive.


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## pfn

Town said... "For a tracked Ariens Pro model snowblower the disc drive does not seem up to the job with ground speeds (according to Ariens) that are half those of the hydrostatic drive. That disc drive machine would be painful to use. The tracked machines with hydrostatic drive have about the same ground speed as a wheeled machine with hydrostatic or disc drive."

I couldn't agree more. My tracked Pro is slower than I'd like but it did get through the last storm's 20 ins of snow. I don't think wheels would have made it up my drive. Even my tracks were spinning on occasion.


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## 94EG8

I've used both, worked on a few hundred machines with friction drive as well. For the most part friction disc drives are junk. Some brands are better than others. Honda, Yamaha, and Ariens had or have pretty decent setups. MTD and Murray based units are absolute junk, you can count on them slipping almost every time you use the machine.

For me I'd never buy another friction drive machine again. I want something that just works.


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## lillbear

I had just regular friction disc for the last 30 years. This winter I bought what most tread I see here say not to do. Tracks and hydro. The thing is it works better then any I had for my application. Never had a problem with friction reliable and cheap to maintain but it seems that the gear your in is always either to fast or to slow and have to let go of the clutch or feathering it. Don't get me wrong friction as proved itself and gets the job done. Hydro as that benefit of being able to adjust to the right speed on the fly and without letting go of the clutch. It's not that one more reliable then the other in my opinion it's just a lot smoother then fiction. My friend has a Honda 828 1996 and he never had a problem with his transmission. So hopefully my Hydro pro track is just has durable. That my impression so far with the hydro so far.


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## RedOctobyr

I've only owned friction disk + wheels. So I'm clearly in the category of not even realizing what I'm missing  

But my thoughts echo what others have said. A snowblower isn't like a lawn tractor, where if it gives you trouble, you can take a few days to sort it out and fix it, if needed. If you have 2 feet of snow in your driveway, and you need to get to work, the machine needs to do its job. So I'm biased towards simple and friction. 

That's not to say hydrostatics can't be reliable, I'm sure they can be excellent. But no matter how well-designed, they still have a lot more parts than disk, and something like leaking fluid could leave you stranded. I don't know if they're "reliable enough" yet, including over a span of 10-20 years. I get the impression that Honda has a longer track record with this than Ariens, though that may be wrong. 

Someone mentioned that friction systems don't let you change speeds with the clutch engaged. I don't believe that's true, my Ariens manuals at least allow speeding up while still moving, as I recall (not sure if slowing down is OK). You are not supposed to change directions with the clutch engaged, though. 

I *do* wish friction had better ability to just creep forward. With the giant snow banks from our record-breaking New England winter last year, there were definitely times I was feathering it forward. I could adjust the system to reduce my forward speeds, and let me slow down first gear. That's a trade-off, of course, and will not be as flexible as hydro. 

I would like to try a hydrostatic, I'm sure they're really nice. I will probably stick to friction, for cost and simplicity. As was mentioned, I had an MTD with a weak friction system, it would slip easily (and I had cleaned the plate and replaced the disk). But my two Ariens machines have had much better friction drives, they push a lot harder than the MTD, I will sometimes spin a wheel with chains when going into a snowbank. Based on the MTD, I was very unimpressed with friction, but the Ariens do it much better.


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## lillbear

Ariens pro track only comes in hydro for this year. The 2015 is the last year that pro track came with friction. I was going to look for friction since my brother had one and it worked good. The hydro is more expensive but that all that was available and I was not planning on buying hydro but that what I got. They had free extended warranty to so it came home


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## pfn

I believe hydros are generally very reliable. Honda has been in the business for a long time and folks love 'em. Very few Hondas will need repair. That said when do machines break? Mostly they break when the are working hardest, when you need them the most. When (if) a hydro breaks you are done. You'll need someone else to clear your snow and most likely spend a small fortune having someone else fix your blower. There is a possibility you'll get it back from the shop in June. Friction drives are simple and take an hour or two to repair. Even I can do it. With a little luck and the needed parts you can get back to work that day. 

I may be old and behind the times but for that reason I'll stick with friction drive.

Not so much for Hondas but I would be concerned about the newer hydro versions. Will all builders design and build a reliable hydro or will they "value engineer" it (that means make it cost them less)? My guess is the latter. If I were to buy a hydro I wouldn't consider anything but a Honda only because they have a track record. I'm sure Ariens has tried to build a fine transmission but they just don't have that track record yet. I would be very skeptical of other manufacturers. Marketing is demanding that everyone offer a hydro. Some of those will be better than others.

Just my opinion.


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## lillbear

pfn said:


> I believe hydros are generally very reliable. Honda has been in the business for a long time and folks love 'em. Very few Hondas will need repair. That said when do machines break? Mostly they break when the are working hardest, when you need them the most. When (if) a hydro breaks you are done. You'll need someone else to clear your snow and most likely spend a small fortune having someone else fix your blower. There is a possibility you'll get it back from the shop in June. Friction drives are simple and take an hour or two to repair. Even I can do it. With a little luck and the needed parts you can get back to work that day.
> 
> I may be old and behind the times but for that reason I'll stick with friction drive.
> 
> Not so much for Hondas but I would be concerned about the newer hydro versions. Will all builders design and build a reliable hydro or will they "value engineer" it (that means make it cost them less)? My guess is the latter. If I were to buy a hydro I wouldn't consider anything but a Honda only because they have a track record. I'm sure Ariens has tried to build a fine transmission but they just don't have that track record yet. I would be very skeptical of other manufacturers. Marketing is demanding that everyone offer a hydro. Some of those will be better than others.
> 
> Just my opinion.


Actually the hydro in Ariens are made by Hydro gear a company that been making hydro drive world wide for the last 40 years. I did check that part before my purchase so it's not Ariens making that piece of the machine. From my understanding the drive is also commercial not just the gear box and other components. 
Just sharing extra info :icon_whistling:


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## RedOctobyr

lillbear said:


> Actually the hydro in Ariens are made by Hydro gear a company that been making hydro drive world wide for the last 40 years. I did check that part before my purchase so it's not Ariens making that piece of the machine. From my understanding the drive is also commercial not just the gear box and other components.
> Just sharing extra info :icon_whistling:


That's good info to know, thank you.


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## ChrisJ

We had a 1967 Jacobsen garden tractor that used a "Hydro-Gear" transmission and it was amazing even in 2006. Had a strange hydraulic whine sound especially under heavy load but it worked very well and was very solid feeling.

I'd assume the transmissions being used by Ariens are very similar to what that 1967 tractor had, just downsized.

The shifter had a neutral where the tractor wouldn't move and the transmission would actually act as a brake and slow you up and stop you. 100% variable reverse and forward. It had a bypass valve you opened via a knob so you could roll the tractor.


Since that 1967 tractor had one, Hydro-Gear has clearly been in business for at least 49 years.


Tractor was a Jacbosen 1200 Superchief with a 12HP Kohler K series.


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## lillbear

If the hydro is good or bad I will find out soon enough I suppose. Probably not this year since it's an unusual winter here mild and 24 inch of snow. But a normal winter looks more like this picture from last winter.


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## pfn

lillbear said:


> Actually the hydro in Ariens are made by Hydro gear a company that been making hydro drive world wide for the last 40 years. I did check that part before my purchase so it's not Ariens making that piece of the machine. From my understanding the drive is also commercial not just the gear box and other components.
> Just sharing extra info :icon_whistling:


I'm certain Ariens put effort into getting their hydro right. They are locked in battle with Honda to be top dog in the US market. It's not a battle either wants to lose. My concern is not the effort, I'd just like a little history before I move from something (discs) that has worked so well for so long. No doubt hyrdos are more convenient than discs but not that much more convenient in a snowblower application. It's just a personal choice.

All my sermonizing aside if I were buying today I'd be tempted.:blush:


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## RedOctobyr

It does seem worth mentioning that not all hydrostatic drives are created equal, of course. 

Regardless of manufacturer, they are made in different levels. From my reading, the hydros in lawn tractors are very different than the units in garden tractors. 

Low-end hydro units in lawn tractors are often sealed units, so you cannot easily change the fluid, or replenish fluid that may leak out. And they cannot handle large loads. They're fine for mowing your lawn (their intended use). But start pulling a heavy trailer around on hills, and you can kill the transmission. In terms of loading them up more, like with a trailer on hills, etc, for a lawn tractor you may be better off with a geared transmission. 

Garden tractor hydros, on the other hand, are typically much more robust. They are often set up for being able to change/refill the fluid, which helps in the long term. And they are perfectly happy pulling a plow to turn over your soil. Or pushing a snowplow, or pulling a trailer. 

There's the also the "they don't make 'em like they used to", aspect. So while a '60s Cub Cadet might be built like a tank, that same build quality may not carry over to the unit you find at Lowes/HD, or even the "good" stores that sell the higher-end versions. 

Having an established brand build the hydro unit for your machine is definitely a good start. But even that can't guarantee a lifetime of trouble-free service, unfortunately. I have no idea of the details of the hydros found in snowblowers, what sort of "duty level" they're built for. But if they take the modern approach of building it to last longer than the warranty, vs lasting "forever", that would make me a bit more concerned on a machine I might keep & rely on for 20 years.


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## Forcefed4door

I just ordered the husqvarna st324p. For a few reasons over the ariens 24" sho. From what I've read it uses the same hydro as the Honda. I'm stoked to test it out when it arrives.


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## 1894

Congrats ! Enjoy your new machine ! Don't forget to post up some pics


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## ChrisJ

I can tell you one clear benefit of the hydrostatic trans over the friction disk which was a big reason my dad bought one.

They won't roll back on a hill.

His friction disk machine was killing him because everyone he'd stop he'd have to hold the 300 pound machine from rolling back. The hydrostatic holds it self.


Honestly my opinion is the hydrostatic is nicer to use.
The friction disk is cheaper to buy and cheaper to fix.


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## Town

ChrisJ said:


> I can tell you one clear benefit of the hydrostatic trans over the friction disk which was a big reason my dad bought one.
> 
> They won't roll back on a hill.
> 
> *His friction disk machine was killing him because everyone he'd stop he'd have to hold the 300 pound machine from rolling back. The hydrostatic holds it self.
> *
> 
> Honestly my opinion is the hydrostatic is nicer to use.
> The friction disk is cheaper to buy and cheaper to fix.


Did he try turning the disc drive machine sideways to the slope; works for me on a slight slope to clean the machine before putting it away.


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## ChrisJ

Town said:


> Did he try turning the disc drive machine sideways to the slope; works for me on a slight slope to clean the machine before putting it away.


There's times that's just not possible.
He now has an Ariens 32" Hydro Pro so it's no longer a concern.


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## pfn

ChrisJ said:


> I can tell you one clear benefit of the hydrostatic trans over the friction disk which was a big reason my dad bought one.
> 
> They won't roll back on a hill.
> 
> His friction disk machine was killing him because everyone he'd stop he'd have to hold the 300 pound machine from rolling back. The hydrostatic holds it self.
> 
> 
> Honestly my opinion is the hydrostatic is nicer to use.
> The friction disk is cheaper to buy and cheaper to fix.


I have tracks. They don't roll anywhere very well. :blush:


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## ChrisJ

pfn said:


> I have tracks. They don't roll anywhere very well. :blush:


I wish I could convert my 924108 to tracks.


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## Michael Smith

I have a question I just received my 28 hydro pro and it is miserable to push around with the engine off is it normal to feel all that resistance without the machin running? I am currently charging the efi battery so will see what it does with it running later.


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## YSHSfan

Michael Smith said:


> I have a question I just received my 28 hydro pro and it is miserable to push around with the engine off is it normal to feel all that resistance without the machin running? I am currently charging the efi battery so will see what it does with it running later.


I'm not familiar with Ariens hydro tracks, but I have a tracked Honda HSS1332ATD and it is very easy to move it around with the engine off if you press the triggers for the power steering. The old Honda HS series were hard to move around with the engine off, some actually very hard to move. Do you have to move a lever or something to disconnect the hydro to move it with the engine off. On Honda HS you have to (maybe that is what you need to do.......)


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## Michael Smith

I tried both levers and the locking pin and same thing


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## Ariens hydro pro

My Hydro I like. I didn't intend to purchase a Hydro, but it's what the dealer had on hand. I wanted the biggest one they made because of the very wide driveway I got. On lighter snows the wider shovel pays me dividends as I'm back in the warm house faster.

I've never had trouble with the disc on my machines. The hydro travels faster going forwards, slower in reverse (The disc has a big advantage here it rolls a lot easier so I'd always just walk it back under "my" power).

I put about 15 - 20 HRS on the new hydro and it's been fine. No issues. In the spring I put it up on the shovel and opened the belly pan looking for oil leaks, nothing found. So I greased up the rest of it and put it back down on the wheels. 

I think the engine needs to come off if you got tranny problems. Looks like that's how mine would have to come out. That would suck. I did purchase the longest service plan for mine last year. If it goes bad, the dealer will be not so happy to fix it.
My spare 30" will be up to the task while it's big brother is in the hospital...


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## jimski

How often have you had to replace the friction disc? 1,2,5, years?????? I bought mine new and a year later the disc was worn beyond use. The drive adjustments were all in check. I had 15-20hrs on the machine.............. The dealer replaced the disc under warranty but what else could cause it the wear so fast?


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## tadawson

We've had 2 disc driven Ariens blowers over about 35 years and changed one disc . . . . (and are in a 200+ inch snowfall area, so the machines see a lot of use) so my take is that they hold up well if correctly used and maintained.


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## knu2xs

jimski said:


> How often have you had to replace the friction disc? 1,2,5, years?????? I bought mine new and a year later the disc was worn beyond use. The drive adjustments were all in check. I had 15-20hrs on the machine.............. The dealer replaced the disc under warranty but what else could cause it the wear so fast?



I picked up a 28 Pro Hydro just over a year ago because the friction disc on my 24 Platinum SHO lasted less than two seasons. 


I rarely used 6th gear, always going slow when blowing and always stopped prior to gear changes. 


Mine was also replaced under warranty...….


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## cranman

I picked up my 1980 ST824 on the side of the road with a blown engine in 2003 and replaced the engine with a late 90's Harbor Freight Chondra. Used it as my only or primary blower ever since and never replaced or adjusted the friction disc. Last year I serviced the blower for the first time.....even changed the oil. I'm going to stick with old school, cheap to buy and maintain technology....For what it's worth...the tech's at the Arien dealership I frequent have been going to Arien seminars, where the focus on the engineering of the company seems to be headed in the direction of making it impossible for the backyard mechanic to fix a machine...and difficult for aftermarket parts manufacturers to duplicate the parts.....The diagnostic tool for the Ariens EFI is $1700. Try changing the friction disc on a 932 series Ariens and compare it to changing the friction disc on a 924 series machine. I can do a 924 series disc is five minutes...the 932 disc is hours if your fingers aren't small and nimble.


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## Town

jimski said:


> How often have you had to replace the friction disc? 1,2,5, years?????? I bought mine new and a year later the disc was worn beyond use. The drive adjustments were all in check. I had 15-20hrs on the machine.............. The dealer replaced the disc under warranty but what else could cause it the wear so fast?


The original friction disc lasted 3 years doing 6 driveways and looked worn out but I did not measure the remaining rubber. I replaced the disc (Ariens part) and it has worn a little over 1/8" in 1.5 years of use on 8 driveways. While it will last for this year probably will not trust it for another full year. The rubber is now flat (not rounded at all) not cracked and looks in good condition and about 1/8" thick.

I have a new Ariens spare disc that has 1/4" of rubber, so it starts out very thin. The rounded profile means there is less rubber in the first 1/8" of wear.

The Ariens spec for tension between friction disc and the drive plate is just to take all slack out of the cable (it used to be a spring length measurement). If the cable is slack there will not be enough tension and the disc will slip and wear the rubber more quickly. Check for cracks in the rubber which are usually caused by heat buildup - slipping or shifting under pressure.

Do you have a small black indicator in the chassis square cutout on left chassis just behind the impeller housing that shows clutch engagement point and when touching the back of the cutout the disc is worn out.


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