# Tecumseh HMSK80 running great to not running at all



## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

Four years ago I bought a used Snow King 883 to help a guy out. I didn't know much about blowers in general but this one looked good, seemed to run ok and was less expensive than similar units on Craigslist. 
First snow season it fired right up but wouldn't throw snow, chute just constantly plugged up. Parked it in the garage, ran the carb out of fuel and paid the neighbor $20 to plow the drive. 

Second season, same story except this time I parked it behind the house, drained the fuel and covered with a tarp and neighbor was now charging $30.

Third season, new house much much much longer driveway and against my better judgment I had brought the snow blower instead of pushing it off a cliff. Like Charley Brown believing this time Lucy wouldn't yank the football away, I tried the snow blower. Hard as heck to start, had to pull the spark plug and spray starting fluid directly into the cylinder but finally got it running but only with 1/2 to full choke to keep it running. Dove into the snow and to my shock and surprise snow went flying. I wasn't dressed for snow blowing but I was afraid to stop lest it never work again so I kept going. Woo Hoo! Worked great the rest of the season abet hard to start.

Season four. Changed the oil, cleaned and adjusted the carb filled the tank with non-ethanol premium. 6 primer pumps, full choke and started on the first pull and immediately wanted the choke open. White smoke for 10 seconds then cleared up and ran ok, little black smoke and slight rpm surge. Dove into 12" of wet snow and worked her hard for an entire tank of fuel. Refilled with fresh non-ethanol gas,restarted and now the trouble begins. Not running very well, more black smoke and not handling the load. Thought maybe the carb needed a little tweak, tried leaning out the mixture a bit then she died and wouldn't restart. Set mixture back to where it was and still no start. Would pop and maybe sputter for a second or two. 
Back in the shop wouldn't start with throttle wide open but would start at idle and run for 30 seconds to a minute before dying. While idling attempts to throttle up caused engine to die. Pulled spark plug, it was wet and black. Cleaned plug and engine restarted, ran briefly, died and hasn't restarted since. 
Spent some time reading these forums. Pulled carb, cleaned again and set for initial start up but no go. Checked spark-good and strong.
Decided to check compression and based on a video posted in another thread, got some base line ideas for compression readings with decompression system. In the video new engine was 60lbs, used engine 50lbs both dry.
My engine was 30lbs dry and 50lbs wet (5W-30). With oil in the cylinder the engine will fire and run for a few seconds. 
Guessing low compression is the problem. 
According to the DOM the engine is a 1995. I paid $400 for the blower and in my four years of ownership have used it a guesstimated 10 hours total. 
Is it worth trying to repair the Tecumseh or just sell as is and cut my losses?


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Those compression numbers are really low. The biggest contributor to tecumsehs with low compression is having out of spec valve lash. The valve works its way deeper and deeper into the seat then you end up with zero lash and compression leaks out the exhaust.


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## ELaw (Feb 4, 2015)

I agree on the compression being low and valve lash being a typical problem, but I tend to think that with compression improving that much by adding oil, the piston rings might be worn - or maybe it has both issues.

Also, low compression from the above causes won't make an engine go from running great to running awful overnight. With your engine having all the different "moods" you describe, I'm thinking carburetor issues.

To get the full story, you'll probably have to pull the engine apart and check some things. Measure the valve lash. Check the piston ring gap and if it's out of spec, check the bore. There's not much checking you can do on a carburetor, the easiest thing is to just toss a $25 Chinese replacement on there.

Or... look on Craigslist and see if you can find an engine in better condition that you can just bolt on and go...


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

GAfternoon Ristin, I got to the third paragraph and blew my soup through my nose......I'll finish up this comedy AFTER lunch, Thank You... OK, cleaned computer screen. Sounds like rings with those compression results, but if rings are weak, then valves will need to be done too. Where are you located?? I just bought a parts machine yesterday in MA for $60, with a sweet running 10hp Snow King. Engines by themselves are $100-$150 around here. If the machine throws snow that good (when it DOES Run), it may be worth getting a donor. Although, some here may recommend a Predator Transplant. I'm a purist and find it cheaper and easier to replace/rebuild what is there. GLuck, J


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Compression readings are funky to read on L head snowblowers:eeek:. Since it ran and blew I'd suspect the carb and fuel delivery. Nothing worse than "cleaning" a carb (I don't know what "you" mean by that, off the machine in a bath or ultrasonic, or a spritz up the the butt?), doesn't matter if you didn't start from the source gas supply. The lines on these degrade and will continue to drop crap into a perfect new carb until you fix the line and fuel source. I always start from fuel tank down and eliminate supply system failure first if you have spark ( does take time and lots of parts have to come off to accomplish). Then you can go on to the possible mechanical failure (likely the exhaust valve lash). Easy if you have a backup, terrible thing if it's the one and only. Sometimes the fastest fix is a new power supply. Nobody at the EOD with a plow truck coming hard left wants to hear their fuel system is dirty and should have been watched more closely:eeek:. Sometimes getting a cheapo running one off CL is best bet and see if you really want to fix the old girl and continue with the old ergonomics. I like keeping the old girls running, but I keep backups because they only break when there's snow:yahoo:


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## majorxlr8n (Jan 11, 2017)

The HMSK engines are well known for valve clearance issues. If you didn't see any blue smoke when the engine DID run, the rings should be ok and a simple valve job will cure the compression issue.

Now the carb sounds like it needs a thorough cleaning and rebuild....

Marty


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

majorxlr8n said:


> ....
> 
> Now the carb sounds like it needs a thorough cleaning and rebuild....
> 
> Marty


+1 on the carb clean(again) and rebuild.Get a bucket of carb cleaner at Wally World and soak that baby.

It's certainly a throw-away society we live in today.I never cease to be amazed at how quick people are to advise someone to toss out the OEM Tecumseh carb and just go and buy a $15 Chinese wonder.In the many years I've farted around with those Tecumseh snowblower carbs I've seen very few that couldn't be straightened out.I would buy a Chinese carb as a last resort and I haven't bought any yet.

Side note:I did a search on "Snow King 883" and came up with nothing.Is that an engine model or a blower model?


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## Ian Ariens 924 (Dec 22, 2015)

I agree with jtclays,might be as simple as a degraded fuel line.You said the fuel line is at least 4 years old .
Valves don't go out of lash,unless you get the Tecumseh engine really hot.
You hardly used the blower,check over the fuel system first.
The plugging up of the chute was probably a belt issue.

Hope this helps.


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## majorxlr8n (Jan 11, 2017)

Ian Ariens 924 said:


> Valves don't go out of lash,unless you get those Tecumseh engine really hot.


A snow engine running hot in sub 30 degree weather? Please elaborate.


I'll sit on the real reason why they go out of lash for now...:wink:


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

i have had many Tecumseh engines with lash problems on the exhaust valve. 

clean the tank replace the fuel line and clean the carb again. if it still doesn't run well then look at the valves. With compression that low i suspect a lash problem with the exhaust valve.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

CarlB said:


> ". . . i have had many Tecumseh engines with lash problems on the exhaust valve . . ."


Me too. I recently had a Brush Chipper where I paused in a project while the Tecumseh engine was partially disassembled out in a cold garage, and condensation must have collected on the Exhaust Valve and port, resulting in rust and pitting that required a valve job.

Without an Air Filter to inhibit the movement of humid air through the combustion chamber and valves (if open), I'd be more concerned about a SnowBlower suffering from this problem.


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

I find the symptoms interesting in that they go from one extreme to the other.One time it takes forever for it to start and then suddenly it starts with one pull.One time it runs like crap and then it runs perfectly and throws snow to beat the band.This still sounds like a carb problem to me.Sticking inlet needle?Bad needle seat?Float level wrong?

Also-when you removed the carb,did you remove it from the intake pipe or remove the carb and intake from the block?You wouldn't believe how many crappy running Tecumsehs I've seen that were caused from loose(or stripped) bolts that hold the intake to the block(or people not putting the gasket back in).


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

Thanks for all the comments! This site is great and all the comments were very helpful. I've gotten leary of asking for help on forums lately. Seems like if I ask a simple yes/no question and get 10 responses, 4 will be yes, 4 will be no and 2 will have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. 😄
So thank you for all the great responses. We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread....


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

Ristin said:


> ....I've gotten leary of asking for help on forums lately. Seems like if I ask a simple yes/no question and get 10 responses, 4 will be yes, 4 will be no and 2 will have absolutely nothing to do with the topic.....


I know how you feel,Ristin.I,too,have gotten leary of forums lately in that I try to help people with their problems and it seems they fight you every step of the way.A problem can only be solved with the info that the OP provides and getting that info can be almost like pulling alligator teeth with needle-nose pliers.

I/we ask questions and the OP ignores them.

The OP fails to even tell WHAT it is they're working on in the first post.

I/we offer suggestions and the OP never says whether he/she ever tried them or not-and the list goes on.Seems like a losing battle at times.

So that being said,bfore you go,can you tell me what a SNOW KING 883 is-I asked that a while back.


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## stromr (Jul 20, 2016)

Harley Davidson 883 Snow King


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

stromr said:


> Harley Davidson 883 Snow King


Are those skids from snowblowerskids.com? What's the bolt pattern?


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

*Updates*

I like threads with pictures but I'm not allowed to post attachments. 
Realized I posted the wrong model number, the blower is a Snow King 8 33. Assuming that means 8hp and 33" width. The DOM on the engine indicates the unit was born in 1995. I'm not sure what bothers me more; that the engine is worn out or that 1995 was 22 years ago. From what I have been able to learn with mostly minimal effort on my part is the Snow King was manufactured by MTD.


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

I think age is the biggest issue with my blower. I suspect the valves are worn and the rings are bad. 
Even if the problem were to turn out being a cheap fix such as a carb I would still tell my wife worst case scenario so she won't be quite so mad when UPS delivers the Warn Provantage snow plow for my ATV next week.
I'd still like to have a blower though. I'll start with the carburetor since that's cheap then go from there. 
I ran it really hard that last two hours of it's life and possibly that put it over the edge. At work we have 18,000lb snow blowers that mount to the Cat 972 loaders. We call it "gettin into the turbo" when training new people as a reference on how hard to push. Want to keep enough snow going in to keep the turbo singing but not lug the engine. 
I may have "gotten into the (not) turbo" a little to much on my tired Tecumseh.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

You'd be surprised, that Tec may not be done yet! I know people bash them for rod failures and such, but almost to a 100% I've been able to get them back and going unless there was user error (almost always low or criminally old oil). Don't know were you're located, but if you don't want the engine anymore there are lots of people who would. It's hard to decide what to keep putting parts into or letting go of. Storage, time and money never seem to equal out:signlol:


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

JayzAuto1 said:


> GAfternoon Ristin, I got to the third paragraph and blew my soup through my nose......I'll finish up this comedy AFTER lunch, Thank You... OK, cleaned computer screen. Sounds like rings with those compression results, but if rings are weak, then valves will need to be done too. Where are you located?? I just bought a parts machine yesterday in MA for $60, with a sweet running 10hp Snow King. Engines by themselves are $100-$150 around here. If the machine throws snow that good (when it DOES Run), it may be worth getting a donor. Although, some here may recommend a Predator Transplant. I'm a purist and find it cheaper and easier to replace/rebuild what is there. GLuck, J


Sorry about your lunch. I tend to ramble on and tangent a lot. It's a bad habit I picked up from my wife who can turn a yes/no question into a 1/2 hour response. 

I'm in northern Idaho. First two years living here there wasn't much snow, the last two we have gotten dumped on. 

In northern Idaho used snow blowers, ATV's and 3/4 ton 4wd pickups are apparently made of titanium, platinum, and gold based on the used prices I see. I've yet to see a parts unit for sale.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

GEvening Ristin, Well, I guess if they're not made of 'Un-Obtain-ium", you may still have a chance. Or, maybe wait until warmer weather, when prices come down? Nothing better than dropping on a direct replacement engine and hitting the go button!! GLuck, J


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Ristin, I found this on C/L, https://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/5957896714.html Not sure how far away it is, but it "Appears" to be a strong running 10hp Snow King for $200.  May be worth a look. GLuck, J


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

Threads are better with pics. Here's the ole girl.


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

JayzAuto1 said:


> Ristin, I found this on C/L, https://spokane.craigslist.org/grd/5957896714.html Not sure how far away it is, but it "Appears" to be a strong running 10hp Snow King for $200. May be worth a look. GLuck, J


Wow! Good find and very close to me. Its motor only but does have electric start so if the shaft size is the same I could be good to go with that one.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

*Engine finds*

Well GLuck with that one....I was shocked at the prices out that way. This past Thursday, I bought an MTD Gold 10hp 30" machine, with good tires, Tire Chains, Heated Hand Grips and working headlight, Had a great running, strong Tecumseh Engine. It was advertised as a 'Running Parts Machine', because the bottom cover and a drive gear were missing. I paid $60 for it. I just wanted the engine, as it has the larger alternator and electric start. But I think another $60 in parts and this will be an operable machine. GLuck, J


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

Missed out on the craigslist motor. Went fast.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

Ristin, years ago you were good to that guy who needed to sell it. Now be good to yourself.

I'd recommend putting it on Craigslist for parts, and put the money toward getting yourself a good machine.

I'll get flack here, because there's a lot of merit to keeping the old machines going, but you've spent how many years of your precious time on that PITA?

How much is that time worth? And once you have it fixed will you have an old blower with antiquated features, by today's standards?

Cheers for helping the guy out, years ago. His misery seemed to creep its way in, as if to say: "No good deed goes unpunished."

_Now go getcha one!_ Then get the job done and get in where it's warm.


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

Tomatillo said:


> Ristin, years ago you were good to that guy who needed to sell it. Now be good to yourself.
> 
> I'd recommend putting it on Craigslist for parts, and put the money toward getting yourself a good machine.
> 
> ...


I was ready to sell it for parts but the more I thought about it and re-read posts in this thread I'm going to give the carburetor another shot. Either a rebuild or replacement. I could just imagine selling the blower for parts only to see it on Craigslist a week later fully functional for $400. I have plenty of room to store the blower until I find the parts and motivation to try again. 
Meanwhile I ordered a plow for my ATV. Got all the parts except the blade; it's stuck in Portland Ore due to snow.


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## CO Snow (Dec 8, 2011)

I'd also suggest loosening the gas cap and see if it runs better. Many older (and even newer) caps don't vent properly which creates a vacuum preventing fuel flow. It's worth a shot and it's a quick & easy diagnostic.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

I noticed those ATVs! Hope the plow works great for you. I agree, however, about wanting the snow blower.


Yeah, I'd have replaced that carb by now. Takes 5 minutes. Take pics with phone first, for reference. Would have cleaned the existing one first, then, because they're 20 bucks, would have bought a new one. Gas cap first, per Co Snow's suggestion.


Then valve lash. Then valve job. Strike the latter. Get new machine at that point because most people won't do that job correctly, at least with the tools in their harry homeowner shops.


Personally, that'd be what I'd do - try carb and cap, then new, unless it was an extra special super duper bells and whistles Learjet of a snow blower I paid a lot for. In that case I'd swap the engine.








Ristin said:


> I was ready to sell it for parts but the more I thought about it and re-read posts in this thread I'm going to give the carburetor another shot. Either a rebuild or replacement. I could just imagine selling the blower for parts only to see it on Craigslist a week later fully functional for $400. I have plenty of room to store the blower until I find the parts and motivation to try again.
> Meanwhile I ordered a plow for my ATV. Got all the parts except the blade; it's stuck in Portland Ore due to snow.


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

CO Snow said:


> I'd also suggest loosening the gas cap and see if it runs better. Many older (and even newer) caps don't vent properly which creates a vacuum preventing fuel flow. It's worth a shot and it's a quick & easy diagnostic.


Thanks. I did try that. 
Ordered a new carb last night should be here tomorrow.


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

New carb, new fuel line, full choke, couple pumps of primer and she started first pull. Lots of blue, black and white smoke, shop looked like the parking lot at a Grateful Dead concert. Ran about a minute then started back firing through the exhaust and died. Re-started and ran for a few seconds a few times after now won't start at all. I have gas running out the carb intake but the spark plug is mostly dry.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Ristin...last week I swapped carbs on three HMS80 tecumsehs.....it takes me an hour or more to really clean a carb in sonic...and first try. turns into three tries. I can do it....most of the time...but a good adjustable Chinese carb is $14 free shipping...shows up in three days....sometimes..... I keep a few on the shelf. Most of the time they are preadjusted.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Smoke???? Adjust the valves (exhaust). It's not the second coming of snowblowers, but A heater box and some paint, impeller kit and you have a nice machine.:tempted:


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## Mike C. (Jan 28, 2016)

jtclays said:


> Smoke???? Adjust the valves (exhaust)...


Someone already suggested checking valve clearances and that certainly should be looked at.Fuel running out of carb according to OP and yet it won't fire-time to check the valves.OP stated in first post he did a compression test and got very low numbers.Valve stem may need to be ground or just carbon build up removed.

Is new carb fixed-jet type or adjustable?


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

Mike C. said:


> Someone already suggested checking valve clearances and that certainly should be looked at.Fuel running out of carb according to OP and yet it won't fire-time to check the valves.OP stated in first post he did a compression test and got very low numbers.Valve stem may need to be ground or just carbon build up removed.
> 
> Is new carb fixed-jet type or adjustable?


New carb is adjustable. 
I think valves need to be next but this R&R is nearly ended so it'll be end of next month before I can dig into it. Most likely I'll drag it to the barn and wait until summer to work on it further.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

What's the temperature up there in Northern Idaho . . . . I ask because your pictures don't show the heat retaining shroud around the carburetor. Was it just removed during the time you were working on it . . . . or has it been permanently disposed of ?


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

Vermont007 said:


> What's the temperature up there in Northern Idaho . . . . I ask because your pictures don't show the heat retaining shroud around the carburetor. Was it just removed during the time you were working on it . . . . or has it been permanently disposed of ?


Heat shroud is there, just hanging out of the way for now.

Ordered the complete gasket set and will pull the head to check the valves. 
I bought a plow for my ATV which works fine but there are areas on the property where only a blower is going to work. 

Watched a video of an ATV mounted snow blower unit. Wow that was cool and WOW almost as expensive as a new ATV.


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## Ristin (Jan 11, 2017)

Follow up:
Moved the snow blower to the barn and forgot about it for a year and a half. Met a guy who works on this stuff as a hobby so I dropped the blower off for him to fix. He couldn't really find anything wrong, other than slight build up of gunk around the exhaust valve stem. Valve clearances were not out of spec but he lapped them, cleaned the stems and reassembled engine with new gaskets. He also changed the oil & installed a new spark plug. 

Couple pumps of the primer bulb, engine starts on the first pull and runs strong. Yay!


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## newjerseybt (Nov 22, 2018)

Hi Marty,


I recognized this valve problem as I recall was discussed in the old Best OPE forum 10 years ago. You were on-target regarding the valves but didn't receive acknowledgement. So I'll give it to you.



For reasons unknown after the passing of Marshall the Best OPE site disappeared. I see Bontai Joe is still active. Remembering Faithful Frank who moved to Canada. RIP Jubol and Pecanmanwill whose wife passed. I still have an old Email from you.


newjerseybt in Honesdale, PA


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