# Priming problem



## oldyellr (Feb 16, 2013)

I have an old Duramark 5/23 snowblower with a Tecumseh engine. The last few years it's been very difficult to start, especially for the first time each winter. Last week was the first time this season, when we got a foot of snow. I swear I spent more time trying to start itthan it took to clear the driveway. My usual technique is to put it on full choke, pump the primer a zillion times and give it a few pulls. When I get a sputter, I turn the choke back half-way so it won't die. Usually it doesn't even fire, so I take out the plug, squirt in some ether or a slug of gasoline and repeat. This repeats over and over again until I get more and more sputters and then it eventually stays running. Even after that I have to let it warm up on half choke for a bit, or it dies as soon as I engage the drive or auger. The next time, say a day or two later, it starts just fine first try.

I've worked with small engines, motorcycles, cars, all my life and all I can figure is that it's not getting enough gas in the carb. At first I thought the rubber tubing from the primer button to the carb was split or leaking, but I've replaced it and that's not the case. I even ordered a new primer button in case the old one might be leaking, but what I received was a different one with a hole in it, so I haven't tried it. Near as I can figure out, the "primer" blows air into the float chamber, maybe jiggling the float, but it doesn't seem to be doing the job.

Anyway, I thought I'd post here to see if any of you gurus have ideas. How are these primers supposed to work? Duramark is probably an old Canadian store brand, but I think it's a Noma and I've used Airens parts to maintain the drive. Here is what it looks like:



> http://i.imgur.com/xr84gul.jpg


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I edited your post to change your picture to a link. It was way too big and made your post very difficult to read.

As for your problem, the primer pushes air into the carb which pressurizes it. The extra pressure then pushes fuel up the main jet. New primers will generally have a hole in the middle because you cover the hole with your finger when you push it, then the hole will vent it when you release and prevent it from pulling fuel back out of the carb.

Have you tried cleaning the carb? Here are some videos of carb cleanings.
http://www.youtube.com/user/donyboy73/videos?query=tecumseh+carb

Usually the main problem is the 3 little tiny holes in the nut that holds the bowl on the carb. You should be able to get away with just dropping the bowl and cleaning that nut and washing out the crud in the bowl. Is the main jet adjusted properly? That is something that came up on another forum recently. Someone screwed it all the way in and closed the jet completely and it caused it not to prime at all.

Is this a problem you always have or just the first time every year? You could have bad gas or water or something contaminating the fuel system. If you look in the choke and push the primer you can tell if the primer is working by looking for fuel squirting up the center jet in the carb. If you get it to sputter a little bit you can usually push the primer when it starts to die to keep it going a little bit longer and maybe get it running on its own.


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## oldyellr (Feb 16, 2013)

Thanks for the tips and link. Yes, this happens at the beginning of the snowblowing season and sometimes continues happening each time I need to start it, but so far this winter it only happened the first time and it started first pull the next 2 times.

Yes, I've cleaned the carb from time to time in the summer, but It didn't seem to make much difference. There is no fuel shut-off, so I'm guessing the over the summer the gas in the float bowl keeps evaporating and more keeps coming in until those 3 little holes get gummed up. I'm wondering if using Stabil might help, or else draining the gas and running it dry at the end of winter. Maybe I should put in a fuel shut-off so I can run the carb dry without having to drain the tank.


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## Laker (Feb 13, 2013)

FWIW, I use Sta-bil Marine, and Chevron Techron all my small air cooled engines. (And my big one too  Machines are always ready to go. Gas (especially with ethanol) starts to degrade in just a couple of months.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Shryp will have more of an answer for you but it sounds like you leave the gas in your engine over the summer...??? Definitely remove all gas from tank and carb during off season...run the engine even if you have emptied the tank it will run a little until fuel line and carb are empty. Then unscrew main jet from bottom middle of bowl and let remaining fuel drip out. Make sure to unscrew main jet screw carefully to not loose any pieces...spring etc.. Definitely add the Blue stabilizer(ethanol treatment) type or as others have mentioned I believe Seafoam does this as well along with it cleans your carb in the process.

The ethanol is killer during offseason and left untreated... make sure you put blue stabilizer in your gas cans as well... Read directions on blue stabilzer or seafoam bottle first of course to your specific needs.

oppp laker and I were typing at the same time...


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Here is a good article about the ethanol gases and affecting small engines and what to do from popular mechanics. pics of good stabilizers as well.

*Can Boutique Fuel Save Small Engines from the Wear and Tear of E10?*
Small-engine repairmen tell PM that ethanol mixed with gasoline is corroding and damaging chain saws, string trimmers and other outdoor equipment at an alarming clip. As a result, a new market is growing in U.S. hardware stores: Ethanol-free gas packaged in small cans that sell at a premium but promise to make your small engines last.
By Roy Berendsohn 

April 12, 2011 3:00 pm​
*Repairman and small-business owner* Rich Herder doesn't mince words about the damage ethanol in gasoline is doing to the small engines in outdoor power equipment. "It's the biggest disaster to hit gasoline in my lifetime," Herder says. He owns McIntyre's Locksmith & Lawnmower, a service business in Westfield, N.J. Founded in 1898 to refurbish saddles, the business today repairs more than 5000 machines a year—mostly pieces of outdoor power equipment, and many of them, according to Herder, damaged by the alcohol in today's gasoline, known as E10 for the 10 percent of alcohol it contains. 

Herder estimates that as much as 75 percent of that work is not due to normal wear and tear, but results from the use of ethanol, which can cause rust and carbon deposits inside the engine, dissolve plastic parts and more. And if repair shops like Herder's are already busy, you have to wonder what will happen this summer when gas pumps begin dispensing E15 gasoline; the Environmental Protection Agency recently approved the fuel for cars built after the 2000 model year, but the fuel could hit small engines even harder than E10 does. But now, because of all that ethanol-based wear and tear, a nascent industry is starting up: Ethanol-free gas, distributed in cans for owners of small engines. 
*Why Now?*

Alcohol in gasoline is nothing new. PM first covered the topic in October 1937, when it reported on a plant in Atchison, Kan., that used corn, wheat or sugar syrup to make alcohol, which it combined with a small quantity of coal distillate to make a fuel called Agrol. But 1937 was long before the advent of today's small, high-rpm engines. Lawn mowers and chain saws were in their infancy, and other products, such as string trimmers, didn't even exist. 

Deposits and corrosion aren't the only reasons alcohol is hard on today's small engines. The power plants are easily ruined by bad fuel because they lack the sophisticated computer-controlled ignition systems found in today's cars and trucks. The alcohol can cause the fuel to ignite at the wrong time in the combustion sequence, ruining parts in the process. "The pistons are the first to go," Herder says. "They look like they've been hit with a hammer." Clearly the time for an alternative has come. 
*Boutique Fuel*

The phenomenon of fuel-related problems has become so severe that the niche market for specialized fuel is growing fast. Tidily packaged little metal cans containing ethanol-free gasoline were just an oddity a few years ago; now they're sold in hardware stores and by power equipment dealers, and people are taking specialized fuel seriously. There are at least three brands to choose from: MotoMix, from outdoor power equipment manufacturer Stihl USA, SEF from VP Racing Fuels and Truefuel from TruSouth. Of the three, only Stihl relies on an outside-contract chemical manufacturer to make its boutique fuel: Johann Haltermann, Ltd., a company that makes, among other things, precisely blended fuel for testing vehicles. Stihl was likely the first outdoor power equipment company to enter the boutique fuel market when, more than 20 years ago, it was so concerned about fuel quality in Germany that it introduced packaged fuel for its equipment sold in Europe. 

The market for these fuels is still so new that there's no generally recognized name for them. But regardless of whether you call this stuff—boutique fuel, packaged fuel or canned gas—it's an end run around the gas pump. Sold as straight unleaded gasoline or blended with oil for high-rpm two-cycle engines in chain saws, blowers and string trimmers, it's expensive stuff, costing anywhere from $5 to $8 per quart. Despite the high price, customers might be willing to pony up if it means seeing an engine or its components run for several trouble-free years rather than seeing the engine destroyed or damaged by ethanol—after all, avoiding just one ruined engine might be worth the cost. 
*An Ounce of Prevention*

What if you can't find canned fuel, or don't want to pay the premium? There are several other things you can do to protect your engine, Herder says. 

First, he recommends using a gasoline stabilizer. There are too many to list here, but among the most widely sold are Sta Bil, Star Tron, and Sea Foam. "It's not that the guys who use those products have no problems," Herder says, "but they definitely have fewer." 

Also, buy as little gasoline as possible, so that you run through your gas supply more quickly rather than letting the gasoline sit around and chemically decompose—a process that can start in as little as two weeks. 

Herder recommends that when you go to fill up the gas container you use for your outdoor power equipment, first top off your car—that will flush any low-octane gas out of the hose. For small engines, always use the highest octane you can find, he says. Typically, that's around 93 octane, though regionally you will find higher octane blends. 

Despite the fact that his business has seen something of a windfall because of alcohol-related engine damage, Herder is no fan of the fuel. "It's driving the customers nuts," he says, asking, in a bewildered voice, "Who do they think they're helping by adding more alcohol to gas? What positive thing is this doing?"


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## Laker (Feb 13, 2013)

^^^ good post, thanks~


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## oldyellr (Feb 16, 2013)

Simplicity Solid 22 said:


> Shryp will have more of an answer for you but it sounds like you leave the gas in your engine over the summer...??? Definitely remove all gas from tank and carb during off season...run the engine even if you have emptied the tank it will run a little until fuel line and carb are empty. Then unscrew main jet from bottom middle of bowl and let remaining fuel drip out.


Sounda like a good idea. Too bad they stopped putting fuel shut-offs and float bowl drain valves on most of these small snowblowers in the 1980s, when this was built. I do use Stabil in my mowers and summer car, but when you come to think of it, gas evaporates a lot quicker in the summer and leaves gum behind. The worst case I ever had was a string trimmer I put old gas in from my outboard tank. It ran okay, but the next time I went tu use it, the gum had glued the piston in the bore like epoxy.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

oldyellr said:


> Sounda like a good idea. Too bad they stopped putting fuel shut-offs and float bowl drain valves on most of these small snowblowers in the 1980s, when this was built. I do use Stabil in my mowers and summer car, but when you come to think of it, gas evaporates a lot quicker in the summer and leaves gum behind. The worst case I ever had was a string trimmer I put old gas in from my outboard tank. It ran okay, but the next time I went tu use it, the gum had glued the piston in the bore like epoxy.


 
Ugghhh...that hurts!!!!!!! Remember the older stabilizers do not treat ethanol like the newer ones..


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## Laker (Feb 13, 2013)

And ethanol absorbs moisture, which is bad news for a fuel system. My 2003 Tecumseh OHSK110 has a bowl drain, the rest of mine do not.


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## Simplicity Solid 22 (Nov 27, 2012)

Nice to have Laker...makes it a lot easier!


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## oldyellr (Feb 16, 2013)

Today I spent 2 hours cleaning out my driveway because it was wet and heavy and Ihad to stop and adjust the auger belt when it was just slipping. Starting wasn't too bad except after I had to shut it down.

Anyway, at the very end it just seemed to be dying and running out of power. I thought I was running out of gas and added some, but that wasn't it. I had to finish off with 1/2 choke so it wouldn't die, so clearly I had a fuel/carburation problem.

I went out after lunch and tore the carb apart looking for dirt or anything plugging the little holes in the main jet body, blowing them out with compressed air. I didn't find anything obvious, so I tried running it into snowbanks to load it down before putting the carb cover back. It still lost power, so I opened the main jet up to 1-3/4 turns from the 1-1/2 turns where I had it and it ran stronger and wouldn't try to stall. I also tried changing the idle mixture screw a 1/4 turn each way, but that made no difference.

Hopefully I've solved the problem - the main jet was adjusted too lean, which explains the hard starting. It just tool 2 hours of moving wet snow at zero degrees (32F) to find out.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

I may be mistaken but just a note to add, many are still using the red stabil in ethanol gas but I believe it doesn't work. you have to use the green/blue marine one?

So far I have had luck running ethanol gas all season for that machine whatever it may be, then at the end ..run it dry.. add trufuel and run it for a bit. 

so far so good. we will see this summer


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