# Ariens Deluxe 27 921012 really slow reverse



## johnnyh55 (Feb 13, 2017)

I have an Ariens Deluxe 27 that is close to 10 years old and the reverse seems to have gotten slower with time. I am going to check the adjustement for the traction drive cable but the forward speeds are all ok so if the adjustement on the cable would be off, wouldn't forward speeds also be affected? I took the pan off to see if anything was obvious but everything looks ok.


Here a picture of the friction disc, it is worn and I don't mind replacing it but why would the forward speeds work ok and reverse be slow if this is the cause?





















Also should the traction drive belt be sitting that far into the pulley? I have never replaced the belt since I got it new.




More pictures can be found here:


https://imgur.com/a/pBeIffb


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

If the adjustment has shifted, then forward will speed up, and reverse will slow down. But the forward increase might be less noticeable? When the rubber friction wheel is too close to the center of the metal disk (which is also the pulley, in this case), in Reverse, your Reverse will slow down. I'd check the adjustment procedure in the manual. Or just adjust it so that Reverse is a little further from the center of the metal disk. 

Note that your rubber friction wheel looks just about worn out, to me. Mine has much more of a raised rubber profile. Yours looks like it's almost down to the diameter of the metal frame of the rubber wheel. If you wait until all the rubber is gone, it might tear up the metal disk, causing more damage. I'd replace the rubber wheel. 

And yes, if that's just the top of the traction-drive belt that we're seeing down in the pulley, that does look low, to me. I don't know where exactly my belt is sitting, but I'm inclined to say it sits higher in the pulley's V-shape. That belt might be really worn-down. If you can get a better look at the exposed belt, that's probably useful. If the angled sides are intact, then maybe it just sits deep in that groove. But it seems like maybe a candidate for being replaced. 

Also look at the pulley itself. Only the sides of the pulley's V should be shiny from belt contact. The belt should not be riding on its inside-facing surface. If the _ of the pulley is shiny (not just the \ and /), then the belt is likely so narrow that it's riding on the wrong surfaces.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

I agree the rubber tire disc needs to be replaced. The drive belt for the trans is worn some, see attached pic. But of more concern is the wear on the top surface of the belt. This is routed over an idler pulley from the engine drive pulley to the trans plate that drives the rubber tired disc. You will see in the second attached pic the drive pulley in bottom left and the idler pulley just forward of that and the trans disc pulley forward of that. If the bearing on the idler pulley has failed the friction will wear away the top part of the belt.

For the speed in reverse to have slowed over time, you may want to check the lubrication on the hex drive shaft that the rubber tired disc runs on. If it is not lubricated the disc may not be able to travel all the way to the right for full reverse speed, that is not very fast anyway. There is not a lot of leverage in the mechanism (but quite loose control at extremes of movement) to move the disc across the driven plate surface so any resistance can affect the amount of movement.


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## johnnyh55 (Feb 13, 2017)

Ok I will replace the friction disc I wonder if it will make a difference. I know it will prevent the existing disc from causing damage in case it wears out but I am wondering if it would solve the reverse issue. The shaft the the friction disc slides on slides nice and is not restricted, I have noticed that when I took the pan off. Also I had already ajusted the shifter linkage as per ariens procedure, the only thing I didn't ajust was the traction drive lever. I already have 2 spare belts on hand so ill throw them in and compare them to the old belt. Your saying the tensioner idler pulley bearing might be worn because of the wear on the top side of the belt? I will look into it, it should just spin really and not make noise or bind? that is how you know that it is not defective?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

It looks like you need or are close to needing a new friction disc but a new disc will actually make it a little slower. The smaller the friction disc (old) the faster it's going to be turning and the faster the machine will be moving. The bigger it is (new) the slower it will be driven and the slower the machine will move.

I think you just need to adjust the linkage to move the disc a little further away from the center when in reverse. Just make sure you leave enough that you don't have that friction disc on the middle of the drive disc when in first forward trying to get a quicker reverse. :wink2:


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## johnnyh55 (Feb 13, 2017)

Ok I replace the friction wheel and it seems to have helped a lot. The adjustment is as much as you can bring it in reverse. Would replacing the belts make it a bit faster? It has the original belts on that are 10 years old. Would the old belt be worn and sit too far into the pulley not turning the pulleys fast enough or that doesn't make sense?


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

johnnyh55 said:


> Ok I replace the friction wheel and it seems to have helped a lot. The adjustment is as much as you can bring it in reverse. Would replacing the belts make it a bit faster? It has the original belts on that are 10 years old. Would the old belt be worn and sit too far into the pulley not turning the pulleys fast enough or that doesn't make sense?



After 10 years, certainly not a bad idea. Plus, you will have spares with your current belts - don't toss them !


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

It's possible the belts are worn and could be the cause in that case.

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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Maybe I'm just thinking about it wrong. But it seems to me that worn belts shouldn't really slow you down, as long as they're not actually slipping. If the pulley V-angles are the same, the narrower belt should ride closer to the center of both pulleys. And since it's the ratio between the two pulleys that matters, not their actual diameters, I wouldn't expect much to change, as a result. 

Maybe the issue is that the pulley would ride closer by the same amount on each pulley, call it a hypothetical 0.5". An initial pulley set of 3" and 6" (a 0.5 ratio) would effectively become 2.5" and 5.5", now a 0.45 ratio.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

RedOctobyr said:


> Maybe I'm just thinking about it wrong. But it seems to me that worn belts shouldn't really slow you down, as long as they're not actually slipping. If the pulley V-angles are the same, the narrower belt should ride closer to the center of both pulleys. And since it's the ratio between the two pulleys that matters, not their actual diameters, I wouldn't expect much to change, as a result.
> 
> Maybe the issue is that the pulley would ride closer by the same amount on each pulley, call it a hypothetical 0.5". An initial pulley set of 3" and 6" (a 0.5 ratio) would effectively become 2.5" and 5.5", now a 0.45 ratio.


That would be the same for forward and reverse, but only reverse seems affected.


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## johnnyh55 (Feb 13, 2017)

I was doing some thinking and if i remove the safety cotter pin on the hex shaft that the friction disc rides on that prevents the adjustement from going any further on the shaft, i could then adjust the reverse to go farther hence it would backup faster? I know i would loose some forward speed but I dont mind that. Would that work?


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

johnnyh55 said:


> I was doing some thinking and if i remove the safety cotter pin on the hex shaft that the friction disc rides on that prevents the adjustement from going any further on the shaft, i could then adjust the reverse to go farther hence it would backup faster? I know i would loose some forward speed but I dont mind that. Would that work?


I think the shifter fork would disengage from the disc assembly if you take out the limiter pin at either end of the hex shaft. The fork is just about at the end of its travel when the disc assembly touches that pin.


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

Make sure there aren't any big cracks on the sides of the belts and you're better off to look at the top pulley on the engine to see how far down the groove it sits. The idler pulley shouldn't move up or down or wobble too much, take the belt tension off it and push down against the rod it's on and rotate it. Should be smooth, rough spots or dry sounding rattles are bad. I actually have a needle attachment for my grease gun and got it under the rubber seal and greased up all the "sealed" bearings on my new to me 1997 blower. That'll keep them going for another few years if they are dry.

Add a little grease to the hex shaft as I noticed my friction disc actually moves out a little further once engaged, thus increasing the distance from the center and you can go a little faster. So put a new friction disc on there and have the blower stood up on the tub front and hold the drive handle down and spin the wheels and see how far to the side the disc will go and how far you can adjust it without anything binding. I agree I'd rather get a faster reverse and sometimes a slower first as I have had to pulse the drive handle to keep the speed from killing the engine with too much snow load.

That and you might as well get some chain lube of sorts or even 80w90 gear oil and lube up the chains in there and other stuff.


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