# Power Max 1028 Traction Belt issue



## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

I have a used Power Max 1028 (about 10 yrs old) for the past 2 years, and this year, the last 4 uses, the traction belt has slipped off the traction pulley - not the engine pulley. It is a PITA to roll it to my garage and re-seat the belt. I have looked it over pretty good, and there doesn't seem to be anything broken or loose, except maybe the belt has stretched ? It is a 34 x 3/8" cogged belt, which is what is called for. Not sure, but the belt may be after-market. Anyone experience this, and have any suggestions ? 

Thanks


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

Did you check the swing plate bushings they are probably bad. The one on the left hand side "drivers side" gets the most wear. You will need to take the wheel off to see if they are bad. They are small white bushings and any movement on that swing plate rod will cause the belt to jump.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

351beno said:


> Did you check the swing plate bushings they are probably bad. The one on the left hand side "drivers side" gets the most wear. You will need to take the wheel off to see if they are bad. They are small white bushings and any movement on that swing plate rod will cause the belt to jump.


Help me out - Where is the swing plate bushing, or part number ? One thing I noticed the last time the belt came off, I had just hit a bump in the ice, which caused the blower to jump a little.

Another, possibly unrelated. My 1st two forward gears are almost zero speed. I have adjusted the gear selector rod to be max length without bending, and that didn't help.

Oh, my PowerMax is an LE - i.e. no trigger steering. 

Appreciate any help !

I just did some googling, and I see that you are the expert on this issue, and Yes, I am in the re-call model/serial number time frame. Do you have the info on whether Toro will do anything, or am I on my nickle ? Is there a PDF with instructions on what to do ?

Addtl info - the bushings are worn on both sides. Will replacing them fix it, or do I also need to cut down the pulley ?

THX


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

It must be a 2004 if it's in the update range. I don't think toro will help being that old. You will have to check how long the rear pulley is the one closes to the motor. It may have been done already. I would make sure you got the right toro belt also. Did the hole in the frame for the swing plate get worn at all?


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

351beno said:


> It must be a 2004 if it's in the update range. I don't think toro will help being that old. You will have to check how long the rear pulley is the one closes to the motor. It may have been done already. I would make sure you got the right toro belt also. Did the hole in the frame for the swing plate get worn at all?


As you guessed, the left bushing was worn more than the right, so I switched them, and made a bushing for the right side out of a butter dish to allow me to use it if I need to, until I can get 2 new bushing. The frame holes were fine.

Can you elaborate on what to do to the rear pulley ? I suspect that it is still factory knowing the previous owner.

THANKS a lot - I would never have looked at those bushings. I suspect that they just got to the tipping point, because I never had a belt come off last year.

Happy New Year, and have an extra cocktail on my behalf, and I'll have one on yours...or maybe a couple.


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...-1028-traction-belt-issue.html#/topics/122145

Post #4 says the length it should be. I just use a hand grinder and keep it as flat as possible. Happy New year!


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

351beno said:


> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...-1028-traction-belt-issue.html#/topics/122145
> 
> Post #4 says the length it should be. I just use a hand grinder and keep it as flat as possible. Happy New year!


Are you talking about the pulleys on the engine crank ? Is the strategy to bring the traction pulley about 1/8" closer to the engine ? Seems like that will align the traction pulleys when they are engaged, but it will throw off the alignment of the auger pulleys - at least from a quick look. It was about 5 degrees F in my garage, so I didn't spend a lot of time inspecting !

Again, thanks for the suggestions.


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

Yes you got it. The anger belt will be fine as long as the pulley measures right once done.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Just completed the shaving down of the traction pulley that sits on the crank. Guess what - NO thrown belts ! It worked perfect - well, sort of. The nylon bushings were shot, and I spent a good hour fudging up a substitute that finally worked, although I do need to get the Toro ones.

Thanks again for the help/suggestions.

I am amazed that Toro never caught this when they were engineering the machine. Shame on them !


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

RIT333 said:


> Just completed the shaving down of the traction pulley that sits on the crank. Guess what - NO thrown belts ! It worked perfect - well, sort of. The nylon bushings were shot, and I spent a good hour fudging up a substitute that finally worked, although I do need to get the Toro ones.
> 
> Thanks again for the help/suggestions.
> 
> I am amazed that Toro never caught this when they were engineering the machine. Shame on them !


OK, I "lied". The last 2 days of using it, the traction belt continues to jump off the lower traction pulley. I have a 550' driveway, and it seems like after about 3-4 passes - so about 2000' of use, it jumps off. Before shaving down the pulley, it would jump off the front of the lower pulley while using a non-OEM belt.

I have since replaced the 2 Nylint bushing on the swing-arm for the traction pulley, am using a brand new Toro traction belt that is about 1/2" shorter than the new OEM belt and I shaved off 1/8" from the traction pulley it is darn close to exact.

So, does anyone have a suggestion of what else I can adjust or replace ? This gets very frustrating when the belt comes off 500' from my garage, and I have to push the machine into the garage to work on it.

Thanks for your patience on this issue, because mine is running out !

Rit


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

not knowing your sb but afaik all blowers have some kind of belt retention for the auger/impeller pulley so it wont come off of that pulley, maybe look there


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

vinnycom said:


> not knowing your sb but afaik all blowers have some kind of belt retention for the auger/impeller pulley so it wont come off of that pulley, maybe look there


There is a guard around the crank pulleys, but none on the drive pulley. That is what is needed, but since there is none, then there's gotta be something else that isn't right.


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

Why are you using a shorter belt? I would check the motor for loose mounting bolts. Is the friction wheel worn down much? Also make sure the bearing in the swing plate is not worn any play will cause it to jump. They dont need a belt guard something is definitely wrong. Check the friction wheel tension if you look down on the left side of the frame you will see a slot in the frame were a rod thats part of the swing plate pokes out. Now with the drive handle not engaged you should have a gap about .095 from the end of the rod to the front most part of the slot ( towards the auger)


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

351beno said:


> Why are you using a shorter belt? I would check the motor for loose mounting bolts. Is the friction wheel worn down much? Also make sure the bearing in the swing plate is not worn any play will cause it to jump. They dont need a belt guard something is definitely wrong. Check the friction wheel tension if you look down on the left side of the frame you will see a slot in the frame were a rod thats part of the swing plate pokes out. Now with the drive handle not engaged you should have a gap about .095 from the end of the rod to the front most part of the slot ( towards the auger)


No I am not using a shorter belt than required. I am using the OEM TORO belt, which is 34 1/2". The one that was on there was aftermarket and it was either 35" started out at 34.5 and stretched 0.5". Do you think the belt jumps because it is too short, or too long ? I could go back to the 0.5" longer belt.

When you say "bearing in the swing plate", are you saying that there is a bearing in the traction pulley that the belt rides on ? I didn't look at that. Is it pressed in, or does the whole pulley need to be replaced ?

I do have that rod adjusted correctly. I think the manual says to set the front gap at between 1/32 to 1/16" and I am probably closer to the 1/32" setting.

Just checked the engine and it is tight to the frame - darn, that would have been an easy fix.

I am thinking of possibly shimming the crank pulley a bit closer to where it originally was, since the belt seems to come off the back of the blower, where before it seemed to come off the front.

I will not get a chance to dig into it further til the weekend - wife has Drs. appts tomorrow.

PLEASE bear with me on this, because I am almost out of ideas and you seem to know this stuff inside out. I am sending you a PM.

THANKS


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

ok I miss read the belt part. I would only use the original belt # 94-8812 so if that's the one you got your good on that. The bearing for the swing plate is the lower drive belt pulley # 108-0031 it has one nut holding it to the plate. Did you use the toro 256-257 swing plate bushings and make sure there is no play? The friction wheel new has about !/4 rubber on it so about 6 inches total height.


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

Maybe the belt idler bracket got bent with how much the belt has been thrown. Make sure the idler pulley is straight with the engine pulley. There is also a bolt and nut holding it to the frame make sure its not loose.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

351beno said:


> Maybe the belt idler bracket got bent with how much the belt has been thrown. Make sure the idler pulley is straight with the engine pulley. There is also a bolt and nut holding it to the frame make sure its not loose.


Thanks - I am in Drs. waiting room and will pick up a friction wheel after - just for insurance. The bearing on the traction pulley seems good. I'll keep you posted, and THX a lot.

Yes - the Nylint bushing are brand new, and no elongation of the hole that they go in, so they are tight. You are right though, there are just so many things in this process - should work !

When the friction wheel wears, does ir wear to nothing ? Mine seems to have about 1/4" of rubber, but for $30, it will need it eventually. I suspect it is original - I have only owned it for 2 yrs.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

I did some adjustments and "fixes", but was not able to give it a true test because the 1/2 pulley sheave cracked on me - or I guess "I cracked" it - stupid pot metal. I was using my impact wrench to put it on, and realized later that it only calls for 29 ft-lbs. My $15 mistake. 

I did notice that there was excessive play in the lower traction control lever where it goes through the bracket, and the frame. Not sure if it was supposed to be like that, but the friction wheel was walking a little on the disc, so for that reason, I wasn't able to run in forward speed 1 or 2. I also put in a small washer to move the crank pulley a bit closer to where they originally were - as opposed to the 1/8" cutting down position.

Further update will follow after I get the replacement 1/2 pulley sheave.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

OK< I buttoned everything up, and tried it out, and once again, the traction belt came off. It seem like it came off at the instant that I disengaged the auger/impeller. I would guess that the change in engine load was what caused the belt to jump. 

I did find on another forum that there are several updates to the Power Max following 1st yr introduction - which would include mine.

_Toro has monitored the "first season"  performance of the Power Max snowthrower and has identified several areas that have not consistently met our high standard of performance. Toro has prepared a package of updated parts which includes a new impeller housing cover and seal and parts for the traction drive system. These improvements will increase safety, overall durability and the performance of your Power Max snowthrower.

_The impeller housing cover does not bother me, and I already shaved down the pulley, but does anyone know what other changes/parts might they be referring to ? Might someone have the actual repair sheets that I could get a scan or photo of ?

I was wondering if I changed out the Toro 34.5" belt to a different one, if it would be less likely to throw the belt ? And, if so, would I be better off with a 34" or 35" ?

THANKS !

Rit


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

The update kit had a new auger cable return spring, pinion, pinion shaft, front cover that dont say power max, the seal was just a metal plate that went under the corner of the cover i wanna say that was it i can check in the morning.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

351beno said:


> The update kit had a new auger cable return spring, pinion, pinion shaft, front cover that dont say power max, the seal was just a metal plate that went under the corner of the cover i wanna say that was it i can check in the morning.


Thanks for sticking with me. Seems like you are my only life-line ! I'm not sure if any of your things mentioned will be a magic bullet, but I suppose it is worth looking for it. What is the pinion and pinion shaft ?

Also, what do you think about going with a bit longer belt - say 0.5" ? Seems like the belt has always comes off when the traction was engaged, and that is when the belt has the most tension, so it may be pulling it off the lower pulley, and an extra 0.5" might stop that . Thoughts?

Man - this one has me stumped. Hopefully you'll come up with a solution - before it snows again !

Thanks again...

Rit


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

I have never needed a different belt for the powermax. Did you take a good look at the idler pulley and bracket and make sure the bolt to hold the bracket to frame was tight. Can you get a pic of the belt area looking down from the top of the motor one with the drive engaged and not. The pinion toro calls the sprocket on the look up.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

351beno said:


> I have never needed a different belt for the powermax. Did you take a good look at the idler pulley and bracket and make sure the bolt to hold the bracket to frame was tight. Can you get a pic of the belt area looking down from the top of the motor one with the drive engaged and not. The pinion toro calls the sprocket on the look up.


I re-checked the traction idler pulley, and it was tight. I took off the swing plate just to make sure the traction disc pulley was ok, and it was very good. Then, while I had the swing plate off, I decided to fabricate a belt keeper for the traction belt. I took a metal rod and attached it to the bottom of the swing plate, and it rotates toward the pulley to, hopefully, keep the belt on the pulley. Ariens does something similar as a belt keeper. Then I gave it a garage-test (pouring rain) with the wheels off, and went through about 5 minutes of test. It isn't conclusive, but the belt stayed on.

Attached a a few photos that you requested - the first two are looking down the pulley area with the traction disengaged. Then I took the same two with the traction disengaged. Then there are some with various angles of the belts, and also one of my belt keep, and the final one show to double pulley. The last one was interesting because it shows how the traction belt seems to sit very deep within its crank pulley. It seems like a wider belt would sit better (higher) in the pulley, but it is a factory belt - I think 3/8". Seems odd, to me anyways ! I apologize because the photos don't seem all that good or telling. I may try to get better pictures tomorrow if you'd like.

Again, thanks for your expertise, and my apologize to others for using bandwidth.


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

In picture 7 it looks like the idler bracket is a little bent. It looks like the pulley is kicked so the top is pushed forward more than the bottom of it. Its hard to say from the pic just make sure the belt is riding straight with the drive engaged if the belt is in the middle of the pulley it should stay that way from top to bottom if not just grab the pulley with channel locks and pull up and toward the motor to kick the pulley back in line (it don't take much) . The belt looks to be riding really low in the pulley it could be the belt worn or pulley halfs worn or are not sitting flat with each other. I would adjust the drive plate a little more (not to much) so when your not on the drive the belts not so pulled forward. The belt should be close to straight when engaged.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

351beno said:


> In picture 7 it looks like the idler bracket is a little bent. It looks like the pulley is kicked so the top is pushed forward more than the bottom of it. Its hard to say from the pic just make sure the belt is riding straight with the drive engaged if the belt is in the middle of the pulley it should stay that way from top to bottom if not just grab the pulley with channel locks and pull up and toward the motor to kick the pulley back in line (it don't take much) . The belt looks to be riding really low in the pulley it could be the belt worn or pulley halfs worn or are not sitting flat with each other. I would adjust the drive plate a little more (not to much) so when your not on the drive the belts not so pulled forward. The belt should be close to straight when engaged.


Good eye - I did put a jog in the traction idler pulley, because I think you had suggested that the belt should ride closer to the middle of that pulley, and it was riding close to the edge on the engine side.

The belt is 1 week old, so it should not be worn.

The pulley is metal, and I would guess that it should be much less apt to wear from a rubber belt, but i suppose. When I compared with the picture in my service manual, that one sits very low also. I switched snowblowers last night, so I have my Ariens in my more snow/longer driveway usage, and the Toro is in a much smaller driveway with much less snow.

I will check again to see if there is any wobble to the idler pulley when running, and try to shorten the pulley some more. Ah...such fun !

I really appreciate your time and valuable suggestions. Are you a professional snow blower repairer, or just have a lot of experience with Toros - or both ?

Also, is your last name Beno, and are you related to Joe Beno in Duanesburg or Tom Beno, Engineer at Ge Schenectady ?

Thanks 

Rit


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Short up date - took it out on the lawn, and it ran read in the various forward/backward gears, and then I engaged the auger, and boom, the traction belt fell off. I plan to shave down the crank pulley closer to where you suggested, but grinder is at the lake home. I can get it about 1/32 closer without much work, and will report back !

Stay tuned. Heading to NJ tomorrow for the weekend to visit son, so snowblower will take a back seat for awhile.

THX again...


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

OK, got up early and files/sanded down the crank traction pulley and now the traction belt lines up perfectly with the lower traction pulley when traction level is engaged. Oh, I also tried to move the engine back a little towards the rear, and I may have also gained 1/32" at most, or maybe nothing, but it was worth a try. So, I took it out around my yard - with no snow - and guess what - The belt did NOT fall off. I actually went about twice the distance that it had fallen off before, so, while not conclusive, I was very optimistic that we - meaning you - have solved my problem. 

I would like to publicly thank you - assuming that it really IS fixed. My wife is now convinced that the many hours that I have spent on this forum has paid off . THANKS !

BTW - If you do not really think that it is fixed, you may want to change your screen name on this forum, because I will bug you again. LOL

Rit


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

OK, got some more real life data this week. We got about 8" of snow, and was able to give the Toro a longer test, and the best stayed on the whole time. I also realized, while going through my EOD snow/ice, that the machine has some serious balz. I am very happy with it.

Thanks again 351Beno.

I guess I am really surprised that Toro messed this up in the design stage. After the fact, seems like a simple thing that the "blew".


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

RIT333 said:


> OK, got some more real life data this week. We got about 8" of snow, and was able to give the Toro a longer test, and the best stayed on the whole time. I also realized, while going through my EOD snow/ice, that the machine has some serious balz. I am very happy with it.
> 
> Thanks again 351Beno.
> 
> I guess I am really surprised that Toro messed this up in the design stage. After the fact, seems like a simple thing that the "blew".


 Good to hear hope you get a lot more years on it. In toros defense they didnt have problems with all of them and they did issue an update real quick. We did a bunch of them and most never showed a problem. We did one 3 years ago that never threw a belt or had a cover crack we still had a kit and toro warranted it 11 or so years later.


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