# New machines- cc vs. HP. What gives?



## Az350x (Dec 19, 2015)

I've been doing a bit of research trying to help a neighbor buy herself a new snowblower. I've got an older MTD 10/26 two-stage track drive unit that fell in my lap from my landlord when we rented this house last year, so being new to the snowy climes, so researching/purchasing a snowblower is not anything I've had to do myself. Using my machine as a basis for comparison seemed logical, and what I've noticed is that the new machines all seem to be rated by cc with no mention of horsepower.

So, my question is this- are there new developments in auger technology that make new machines work as well as older units while using less powerful engines? I think she settled on a Craftsman wheeled unit that is 24" wide using a 208cc engine. I looked up the specs, and that engine is only rated at 6.3 hp. 

What gives? 

Thanks!


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

if that craftsman has powermore on it I would talk her into something else even another craftsman made by mtd, don't settle for the lowest price do some more shopping. make sure if the need for parts arise that she can get them


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## caddydaddy (Dec 10, 2014)

There was a lawsuit against small engine manufacturers regarding HP claims and not meeting them. So, now they are all displacement with no mention of power!
Kind of dumb if you ask me, since displacement has little to do with power! Just look at how car engines can have the same displacement, but 2 different power ratings.

I have the same 208cc engine on my Cub Cadet, made by MTD who also makes the Craftsman one you were mentioning. In all but the heaviest snows, it had more than enough power to do the job. When I was trying to go through the 20" of snow after the storms last Winter, that's when it would bog down a bit. But just slowing down and letting it catch up for a second, was more than enough to let it start digesting the huge amounts of snow again.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

My son had a 2010 Canadian Tire Yardworks snowblower with a 208 cc Powermore OHV engine and 24" bucket. It worked fine in powder snow but struggled in wet snow and the end of driveway (EOD) pile. The engine is not strong enough to maintain speed in wet snow conditions and will slow down and plug up and burn the auger/impeller belt and stall. There are a couple on my street of the same type and they all have trouble with the wet stuff. The engine however always started and ran flawlessly except when overloaded.

We sold the machine and he has my old 2004 Craftsman 11/30 with a 318 cc Tecumseh OHV engine and there is no stopping that in any conditions.

The old side valve engines had peak torque at low rpm (about 2,000 rpm or below) and the torque dropped rapidly approaching 3,600 rpm running speed. The modern OHV engines have peak torque at over 3,000 rpm and a flat torque curve through 3,600 rpm normal operating speed. So OHV engines have much more power at normal operating speed. 

I would get the largest size (CC) OHV engine for your budget. That will allow easy snow clearing in all conditions. Size the bucket to suit your driveway and storage.

Good luck.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

caddydaddy said:


> There was a lawsuit against small engine manufacturers regarding HP claims and not meeting them. So, now they are all displacement with no mention of power!
> Kind of dumb if you ask me, since displacement has little to do with power! Just look at how car engines can have the same displacement, but 2 different power ratings.
> 
> .......
> .


The lawsuit was stopped by the judge regarding information that was or was not included. While it could be corrected and re-filed it has not been to date. 

While HP was subject to marketing pressures and not always a good measure there is no replacement standard. Manufacturers of small engines have not come up with a standard alternative to HP ratings. Some like Honda use HP, others like Briggs and Stratton use peak torque, and some use displacement. So the user is still left in a situation where engines are not readily comparable in terms of power.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Yeah - it's a confusing mess on what's what any more. They randomly pick whichever the marketing dept thinks makes it sound more impressive. I agree though - OHV engines are the better overall choice as long as the chassis is not flimsy. A loose rule of thumb I guess is anything above 200 CC or > 5 HP should perform pretty well. Even the Chonda engines are pretty good these days. About 5 years ago I wouldn't touch one with a 20 ft pole. Name brands are still the best long term purchase though....... especially if you aren't the mechanically inclined type. I think those of us who aren't afraid to bend a wrench can get away with the cheaper machines.


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## Snowhawg (Feb 20, 2015)

Because of the lawsuit mentioned and there not being a universal standard, look for engines rated by the SAE J1995 method. It is the strictest and most reliable method used for engine output, and only Kawasaki that I'm aware of uses it to date. Briggs and Kohler use the inferior J1940 method which is 2-3 hp higher to trick buyers. A Kawasaki rated at 23 hp using the J1995 method will rate around 26 hp using the J1940 method. Kawasaki is upfront about using the stricter method, while Briggs and Kohler try to hide their methods in fine print. An uneducated consumer can very easily become confused.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

detdrbuzzard said:


> if that craftsman has powermore on it I would talk her into something else even another craftsman made by mtd, don't settle for the lowest price do some more shopping. make sure if the need for parts arise that she can get them


Powermore has been putting engines on MTDs over here in Canada since Tecumseh went under 6 or 7 years ago. They've been pretty reliable engines, definitely built better and run smoother than the Tecumsehs they replaced. I never really blew snow with one though so I can't comment on power, I just serviced a ton of them. Never saw any major failures either.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

This is why I am glad that I went with the 342cc. I do not run in to any bogging down now. Even in the 2013 blizzard with the 30" of snow. Yes I am a 1/2 to 3/4 bucket pass guy. But the snow that I go in to does not build up in front of the bucket, it goes steadily in to the augers and bucket and goes out at a nice steady pace and flow. My feeling is that I think you need to be in the 300's to be in a good self assuring power area. 

QUOTE=caddydaddy;816385]There was a lawsuit against small engine manufacturers regarding HP claims and not meeting them. So, now they are all displacement with no mention of power!
Kind of dumb if you ask me, since displacement has little to do with power! Just look at how car engines can have the same displacement, but 2 different power ratings.

I have the same 208cc engine on my Cub Cadet, made by MTD who also makes the Craftsman one you were mentioning. In all but the heaviest snows, it had more than enough power to do the job. When I was trying to go through the 20" of snow after the storms last Winter, that's when it would bog down a bit. But just slowing down and letting it catch up for a second, was more than enough to let it start digesting the huge amounts of snow again.[/QUOTE]


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## caddydaddy (Dec 10, 2014)

94EG8 said:


> Powermore has been putting engines on MTDs over here in Canada since Tecumseh went under 6 or 7 years ago. They've been pretty reliable engines, definitely built better and run smoother than the Tecumsehs they replaced. I never really blew snow with one though so I can't comment on power, I just serviced a ton of them. Never saw any major failures either.


Since my Cub Cadet has the 208cc version, I'll comment on the power. The only time mine bogs down is when I'm stuffing it with snow that's up to the top of the housing or above into it. It has plenty of power for everything else and has been a 100% reliable engine so far. I've only put 20 hours on mine last Winter, but it runs great.


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