# 2016 Toro Power Max HD ~ Engine is from 2012. OK or PASS?



## crosis38 (Dec 15, 2012)

Im looking to purchase a 2016 Toro Power Max HD 1028. On the Toro dealer site for the 2015 and 2016 models the engine is *LC180FDS-1* however on close inspection of what my local dealers are currently selling as their 2016 models the engine reads 120-0138 (HD 928) or 120-140 (HD 1028). These are engines from 2012. I asked Toro about this discrepancy. Their reply:



> There would be no difference in the performance of the two engines about which you inquired. The torque ft./lbs for the engines is not available as it is considered proprietary. The Model # 38802 has been in production since 2015. You are correct that this model, for all the series, would have the Toro 302cc Engine, # LC180FDS-1 engine (120-4425). They would not have come with the 2012 Toro 120-0140 engine. If the unit you are considering has a different engine on it, this replacement would have been *after market*. The Toro 120-0140 Engine is also a 302cc engine.


Would you pay $2339 CAD for a new 2016 Toro HD 1028 with a 2012 engine 120-0140? Should i be concerned about this "after market" situation? Again both Home Depot and the local authorised Toro dealer are selling these units as new 2016 models.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Sounds like Toro had some extra engines, and then unloaded them on new frames. I would not buy it at "list price", I would certainly want a pretty big concession in price because the dealer probably got them cheap. Just my thoughts.

I view this as similar to buying a car with a salvage title. It may be repaired OK, but you may have a hard time convincing the next buyer.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Im not really following what is happening here..it seems that Toro's reply is saying that the 2012 engine cant actually be on a 2016 snowblower..which would make perfect sense. Instead, there seems to some other more likely explaniations:

1. They are actually new snowblowers, but 2012 models. That can happen. And the dealer is selling them as new, which they technically are, ("new" in the sense that they never been used) but not voluntering the fact that they are 4 or 5 years old..

2. They could be 2016 models, but maybe that engine model was in fact made beyond 2012? With engines coming from China now, production is nebulous and hard to keep track of. We dont really know what was made when. And "old" models can even return to production.

It seems very unlikely to me that new Toro snowblowers would have engines replaced after they left the factory..I cant think of any reason why that would happen.

Also, brand-new snowblowers in the stores right now are 2017 model year.









Scot


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Another explaination:

Did you confirm the engine numbers in person on the actual machines? Or are you going by on-line specs? If the latter, its possible the specs are just wrong and not updated, and they could be listing an engine model that isnt actually on the new machines.

Scot


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## crosis38 (Dec 15, 2012)

I was there in person looking at the snowblowers.



> 1. They are actually new snowblowers, but 2012 models


The models being sold are 2016 Toro Powermax HD with serial #316xxx (2016). The serial # is stickered on the unit though. I also saw the engine # stamped on the engine. 

The engine for each year was found on the torodealer.com site. I did ask Toro directly (not the dealer) about this and he did respond stating i am right that the 120-0140 is wrong and it should be what i'm looking for, # LC180FDS-1 engine (120-4425), since 2015 onward.

Maybe you're right that the entire unit is 2012 and they just replaced the serial sticker. There must be more clues to make it conclusive though. 

I'd love to get a 2017 model but i doubt there will be any within stores until the 2016 stock is gone or next fall rolls around. 

I know i'm over-analysing this thing but at $2300+ i want to be sure im getting what they are claiming. There arent too many local Toro dealers where i am.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

crosis38 said:


> I was there in person looking at the snowblowers.


interesting! thanks for the clarification.
I still say its very unlikely that these are in fact new snowblowers with 5 year old engines on them..
there is just no logical way for that to happen..
there must be some other explanation, but we don't know what it is yet.

I keep tabs on Ariens models on my Ariens webpage, but no one has ever created a similar database for Toro's..
so the known specs are possibly incomplete..

Scot


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## crosis38 (Dec 15, 2012)

Thanks, Scot. I agree. There must be some other explanation. I will contact Toro directly again and see what they say.


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## Hanky (Nov 14, 2014)

Sure hope that you can get to the bottom of all of this, as they do make a great blower.


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## Snodrift (Feb 14, 2017)

Stumbled across this site and this thread while checking out the serial number on my Toro blower. I bought mine in the fall of 2015 from a local Toro dealer. Model # 38802; Serial # 315001974, indicating a 2015 model year machine. It did in fact come with an engine model # 120-0140, serial # 120014014070002006. Indicated both on a sticker attached to the block and engraved into the side of the engine block. I took pictures but don't see a quick way to include them here. I suspect that the engine is a 2015 year model engine and not a 2012 model year. Both engine and frame were clearly new and not worked on. Whatever the case, it works fine and carries the full Toro warranty, so that number is used for parts look up only. I suspect that maybe the fellow you talked to at Toro is associated with the Trump administration and is using alternative facts.


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