# just picked up a toro 724 seized motor or engine swap



## toroboy (Jan 15, 2014)

I just picked up a toro 724 off craigslist in excellent condition. The owner said it had a seized motor which was true. I took the motor off the snowblower and then removed the recoil. i was then able to turn the motor over with a breaker bar. and now its free. i haven't tried getting it running yet, but if this motor is done for how difficult / what else will i need to buy if i use the predator 212cc engine from harbor freight. the tecumseh motor has a 1'' shaft where the predator has the 3/4''


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

unless it has other problems with the motor, put some oil in the cylinder and keep spinning it. when it gets good and loose put the recoil back on and do the same for a while.

Then try and fire it up. I have had more than a few that came back to life and are still running today.

Nothing to lose if the motor will be junk anyway.

As for the predator engine its a great idea. They designed the motor with briggs/honda/and tecumseh engines in mind in that the crank height/location and bolt mounting pattern is the same as a standard briggs/tec 4,5,6,7 and some 8 and up hp engines.

Someone else here is in the middle of the same swap and ordered a bushing so he could use the old 1 inch engine sheave with the 3/4 shaft on the predator. Take a look it should only be a few threads down.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

The Predator 212cc throws as well as any 8hp does and will be strong enough of an engine for blowers up to 28 inches. I have one on a 26 inch Montgomery Ward Gilson which had an 8hp Briggs on it and the Predator throws as well or better than 8hp did.


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## gsnod (Sep 2, 2013)

Yep, ordered a sleeve for the Predator shaft (3/4 inch) to accommodate the tecumseh 1 inch shaft. Should be here on Thursday, and then gonna get the toro back together. The predator bolt pattern fits perfectly with the studs in place. 



td5771 said:


> unless it has other problems with the motor, put some oil in the cylinder and keep spinning it. when it gets good and loose put the recoil back on and do the same for a while.
> 
> Then try and fire it up. I have had more than a few that came back to life and are still running today.
> 
> ...


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

Hey gs, can you post a link or a pic of the sleeve you ordered? Just want to see what it looks like.


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## toroboy (Jan 15, 2014)

just an update, got the tecumseh running again! got a great deal on a sweet snowblower!!


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## gsnod (Sep 2, 2013)

3 4X 1" Gas Engine Shaft Sleeve Adapter Bore Reducer Pulley Sheave | eBay

Here ya go td. Here's my confusion...I have the key that came off the original engine. Fits perfectly into the keyway on the Predator. I would think that key would be used to keep the sheave and the engine shaft in synch. 

When I look at my pulleys, it certainly looks like their keys are part of the pulley, and designed to slide right into the keyway. They don't "look" like they will come off the pulleys, as they look like part of the actual pulley body. Does anyone know whether pulleys generally have their keys as part of the actual pulley? My predicament is that the key between the shaft and sheave fills the whole sheave keyway...meaning I don't think the pulleys have any keyway to slide onto so they are secured.... is this confusing or what? 



td5771 said:


> Hey gs, can you post a link or a pic of the sleeve you ordered? Just want to see what it looks like.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Does the key that came with the adapter fill the void in the
a. new smaller engine shaft slot and
b. adapter sleeve slot and
c. old pully slot?


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

toroboy said:


> just an update, got the tecumseh running again! got a great deal on a sweet snowblower!!


 what did you do to get it running


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## woodtick007 (Apr 9, 2011)

You can buy keyed bushing reducers from any "good" fastener shop. I bought them from a local from a company called Bearing Services who ordered them from "Browning" I purchase 4 for like $24 plus shipping. Virtually any company that deals in pulleys or electric motors might have them in stock.


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## gsnod (Sep 2, 2013)

OK -- managed to put it all together, BUT I've still got a problem. Pictures attached. Sheave is attached to the pulleys and I sense it will work. But I've got to get a bolt to fit into the shaft of the Predator (5/16, 24 UNF, about 2 3/4 inches long. My concern is when I tighten up the shaft bolt, it will naturally pull the pulleys towards the engine, and out of line with the main pulleys underneath. 

It looks to me what I really need is a longer sheave, or to remount the engine a few inches forward. Problem with that is I don't have those tools immediately handy....Thoughts anyone? Kind makes me wish I would have found a Tecumseh to replace it with.... 



dbert said:


> Does the key that came with the adapter fill the void in the
> a. new smaller engine shaft slot and
> b. adapter sleeve slot and
> c. old pully slot?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Does look pretty far out there. You could try getting some washers or a spacer that will fit under the pulley and keep it on the end of the crank. Moving the engine forward would probably be less wear on the engine, but then your belt cover is going to give you issues.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

you've got two post threads here shryp any way to seperate them


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## toroboy (Jan 15, 2014)

to get the old motor running again i used a breaker bar and spun the siezed motor loose then i added new oil to the motor, the old oil was really dirty and well not much oil was in the engine. then i added new gas, cleaned up the spark plug and thats it!


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

toroboy said:


> to get the old motor running again i used a breaker bar and spun the siezed motor loose then i added new oil to the motor, the old oil was really dirty and well not much oil was in the engine. then i added new gas, cleaned up the spark plug and thats it!


Be careful with that one. If it was run low on oil and seized it might lock lock up again and throw the rod. When they run low on oil the aluminum from the rod starts to transfer to the crank. The heat from it rubbing causes more aluminum transfer. Eventually the rod will weld itself to the crank and when that happens with the engine running that is what snaps the rods off.


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

Shryp said:


> Be careful with that one. If it was run low on oil and seized it might lock lock up again and throw the rod. When they run low on oil the aluminum from the rod starts to transfer to the crank. The heat from it rubbing causes more aluminum transfer. Eventually the rod will weld itself to the crank and when that happens with the engine running that is what snaps the rods off.


Yes, Once the connecting rod is damaged to running with low oil it will often soon fail since there will be significant friction due to the damaged "rough area" and the rod will soon develop play in it and that will accelerate the wear and aluminum transfer to the crankshaft and like Shryp said rod failure will most likely occur. Some times you can remove the damage connecting rod and clean up the steel surface on the crankshaft with *muratic acid* and polish with very fine emery cloth (1000 grit) or finer. Check the crankshaft with a michrometer to see if it is within specs. If it is still with in specs after polishing up the crankshaft surface you can intall a new connecting rod provided your case is still intact since most of the time if the connecting rod breaks the end of the rod punches a hole in the engine case. Most of the time when a connecting rod is about to fail you get no warning so you seldom get a chance to repair the damage before it locks up breaks the piston rod and destroys the engine. The only way an engine will seize with out blowing a rod is if it is running at low rpms with low oil and the friction from the damage makes the engine stall. Breaking it free and expecting it to be like a new engine again is unlikely


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

what would i have to do to put a 6.5 hp lifan honda clone on a toro 824? i dont want people complaining about how much they hate clones, i just want help mounting it


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

43128 said:


> what would i have to do to put a 6.5 hp lifan honda clone on a toro 824? i dont want people complaining about how much they hate clones, i just want help mounting it


Probably just need new pulleys and maybe new belts.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

I get Bronze Sleeves from the Local Hardware Store, around 4-5 bucks. I Make the larger needed keys out of scrap metal with an Angle Grinder.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

im tired of the old hm80 (no surprise their), im not gonna toss it, i will probably lap and adjust the valves in the summer and keep it as a backup, cant see myself tossing it, are the baseplates the same, my toro has this piece of stamped steel that the engine was mounted to


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

43128 said:


> im tired of the old hm80 (no surprise their), im not gonna toss it, i will probably lap and adjust the valves in the summer and keep it as a backup, cant see myself tossing it, are the baseplates the same, my toro has this piece of stamped steel that the engine was mounted to


The base should be the same. You can pull the old engine and take some measurements. Harbor Freight has a blueprint in the manual you can download that shows all the measurements of the new engines.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

whats the crankshaft height differerence between the flatheads and ohvs anyways?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

43128 said:


> whats the crankshaft height differerence between the flatheads and ohvs anyways?


They are about the same. The real difference is noticed when you start jumping up in HP from one engine family to the next.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

this blower had three different model numbers, 38050, 38070, 38080, which is what i have, im honestly not worried about hp


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

43128 said:


> this blower had three different model numbers, 38050, 38070, 38080, which is what i have, im honestly not worried about hp


 you toro has one model number
38040= 524
38050=724
38080=824


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

when i aid that i meant they all used the same frame, just a different engine on each model


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

how long do these blowers last, in terms of the frame, and has anybody had any experience with these engines?


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

43128 said:


> how long do these blowers last, in terms of the frame, and has anybody had any experience with these engines?


 I have a Toro 7/26 that is from 1973 and I expect it could last another 41 years with continued maintenance.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

i bought mine on craigslist for 40 bucks, when i bought it i knew the engine was at the end of its life and that it needed work, but the frame was in great shape so i snagged it


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

that was about 2 years ago


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

its built like a tank 

░░░░░░███████ ]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
▂▄▅█████████▅▄▃▂ 
███████████████████ 
◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙◤


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

what grease do i use in the gearbox, i was thinking lubriplate mag 1


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## frascati (Jan 31, 2014)

*Replacement engine for that 724*

I replaced the originally supplied 7hp L-head on my 35 year old 724 with this 










*Tecumseh OH318EA-222712 11 HP*

150 dollars to my door in two days. 

I couldn't be happier. It's an astonishing deal for a new 11hp OHV Tecumseh and it's a *monster *driving a 24" auger. 

Wider base bolt pattern but that's not big deal to drill. 

It's about 30 percent heavier than the original 7HP but pretty much the same dimensionally. 

Shaft height is same so original belts fit. 

There is a winter/summer air cleaner cover that reverses in winter to draw from a shroud around the muffler. 

The filter element must be removed for snowblowing. This results in a slightly lean mixture on a non adjustable carburetor. Until I can find out how to tweak some richness into the carb (prob a tiny increase in the main jet) It runs perfectly with the choke back one small notch (pretty much the same condition that the filter imposes). 

The shaft is 7/8 with a small taper on the last 1.5 inches. The taper is easily hacksawed off and the original cast iron pulley bored out to 7/8. From there it's a perfect fit with plenty of straight 7/8 shaft to mount the pulley fully.








Two small spot welds hold the shaft end to the pulley and it's not going anywhere until I ever may need to grind them off (30 seconds with an angle grinder) to service the engine or change the pulley.

For anyone with a decent shop these are very minor obstacles. I imagine that any engine that is not designed specifically for winter duty is going to run a little lean with the air filter element removed. Generally this is just an adjustment on the carb. But this one is sealed with no adjustment at all. I have a digital tachometer and I peg this engine at 3600.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

toroboy said:


> I just picked up a toro 724 off craigslist in excellent condition. The owner said it had a seized motor which was true. I took the motor off the snowblower and then removed the recoil. i was then able to turn the motor over with a breaker bar. and now its free. i haven't tried getting it running yet, but if this motor is done for how difficult / what else will i need to buy if i use the predator 212cc engine from harbor freight. the tecumseh motor has a 1'' shaft where the predator has the 3/4''


 put a briggs on it. they have a 1inch shaft also..


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

43128 said:


> what grease do i use in the gearbox, i was thinking lubriplate mag 1


if it is 24 inchs and up and if it is a toro. you use 80-90 weight non synthetic gear oil. the seals will not hold the syn stuff.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

frascati said:


> I replaced the originally supplied 7hp L-head on my 35 year old 724 with this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 what was wrong with the 7hp motor, is it still running


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## pcfithian (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm just starting a repower on a 724 as well, see http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/toro-snowblowers/18921-predator-engine-toro-724-a.html


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