# Auger clutch issue on Ariens 910962 ST724



## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

The past couple of days I have been working on a trash find that I picked up a few years ago.


I just installed a new engine on the blower, decided to go with a Predator 212. After some retrofitting and a few minor modifications, the machine now runs and functions as it should.


I ordered myself some auger bushings as well as the main impeller bearing for replacement to improve reliability of this machine, so all of that will soon be taken care of.




Now to the issue I found today. I was finishing up the break-in process for the engine this afternoon and noticed that when the auger is engaged, there is quite a bit of knocking going on. The impeller and auger rakes themselves are free of obstructions and it also appears that the gearbox itself is in good shape (Pending fluid change) so I decided to open the belt cover to investigate further. With the clutch for the transmission engaged as well as the impeller coupling engaged, I noticed that the impeller coupling itself will jump out of position. Not enough to cause it to disengage but enough that it's knocking the two coupling halves around. I honestly have absolutely no idea what would be causing this issue. A weak spring? A bad bearing? The impeller bearing will get replaced regardless but the bearing currently in there doesn't seem all that bad. There's no lateral play in the bearing and it rotates smoothly. I'm just wondering if anyone else has run into this sort of issue on this particular machine and if there's any way to remedy it for smoother operation.


Edit: Here is a video of my machine showing the issue it is having. The knocking sound you hear when the auger is engaged is coming from the couplings.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I'm not familiar with that machine, but what's the impeller coupling? I'm not sure what part we're talking about. Pics might help.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Sounds like a 10000 series with the dog attachment clutch. I seem to recall there is a spring that the release lever works against - check the manual.


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

tadawson said:


> Sounds like a 10000 series with the dog attachment clutch. I seem to recall there is a spring that the release lever works against - check the manual.


 That's pretty much what it has.


The engine drives a large main pulley via belt and a belt idler puts tension on the belt via spring and lever to drive that pulley. Attached to the pulley is a coupling that almost resembles a LoveJoy coupling. Now for the blower half, there's a very similar looking coupling that mates with the pulley coupling and is activated via a larger spring on the shaft behind the coupling on the blower half and a quarter turn lever that slides the coupling over. This is the portion that seems to be knocking around when running, as if the spring no longer has enough tension to keep it in place. I can take pictures and even a video hopefully some time this week.


Here's a video of the mechanism my machine has.








Toward the end of the video, you can see the auger mechanism is released from the pulley shaft. This is where mine has an issue, when the auger is engaged, the clutch is knocking about and creating quite the racket.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

There should definitely be a spring behind the coupling on the blower side, as per the Ariens docs (pages 6 or 7, item #43) which I recall causing a need for a bit of force on the handle used to disengage it. Based on how loose your handle appears as well as it's lack of desire to stay mated, I suspect that spring has died . . .


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

tadawson said:


> There should definitely be a spring behind the coupling on the blower side, as per the Ariens docs (pages 6 or 7, item #43) which I recall causing a need for a bit of force on the handle used to disengage it. Based on how loose your handle appears as well as it's lack of desire to stay mated, I suspect that spring has died . . .



Sorry for the confusion. The video I provided I merely found on YouTube. It's not my video nor my machine, just another machine just like mine.


The handle for mine is fairly stiff and requires a good amount of force to engage and disengage it. Everything seems to function normally other than the coupling knocking about. I'll try to get a video of my machine tomorrow to better explain what's going on, but maybe you're right and it is the spring. I can't think of what else it might be.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Spray A little pb blaster on the splined shaft, and work it back and forth. Done.


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

Make sure you're doing this all in the proper order.


First, before you start up the engine - the engine clutch lever is out (down) and the sno-throw clutch is out (counter clockwise, pointing forward). Gear shift in neutral. THEN start it up.

Second, once the engine is running and warm, idle down as low as possible.

Third, then turn the sno-throw clutch clockwise.

Last, engage the engine clutch. This will get the rakes turning. Then you can go to the handlbars and start moving.

Always do this in that order. When stopping, reverse that order.


If you're revving full RPM or even mid RPM when you engage the sno-throw clutch...bad things can occur. There's always going to be a tad bit of rattle when engaging the sno-throw cause those jaw couplings have to mesh...but high speed RPM's will cause that meshing to take that much longer if it engages at all...not to mention the additional stresses it places on the attachment auger "chain of components".


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

tlshawks said:


> Make sure you're doing this all in the proper order.
> 
> 
> First, before you start up the engine - the engine clutch lever is out (down) and the sno-throw clutch is out (counter clockwise, pointing forward). Gear shift in neutral. THEN start it up.
> ...



That's what I've been doing, not to sound rude or anything.


I'm just concerned about the rattling the whole auger assembly and what seems to be excessive vibration from the rattling. I will get a video tomorrow to show exactly what's happening because I don't believe it's normal. The coupling, while engaged and in motion at low RPM is knocking about causing the auger assembly itself to knock about inside the housing. It almost acts as if the bearing itself is completely flogged out and bad, but that's not the case as there's no lateral play as far as I can tell.


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

I seem to recall, with the belt cover off, you can actually see the jaw coupling extend as you rotate the sno-throw clutch. You should (with everything shut off) be able to see this movement.

Make sure you've greased between jaw couplings too.


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

tlshawks said:


> I seem to recall, with the belt cover off, you can actually see the jaw coupling extend as you rotate the sno-throw clutch. You should (with everything shut off) be able to see this movement.
> 
> Make sure you've greased between jaw couplings too.


I will grease the couplings tomorrow. I also want to grease the actuator arm for the extending coupling as that probably could use some. Tomorrow is a new day and I hope to be able to get the symptoms on video. Maybe it's normal for this machine but I feel like something made by Ariens should run much smoother than it does.


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

Here is a video of the problem I am having. The knocking sound is coming from the couplings.


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

Hmmm.

Is there any chance the idler or the idler arm is actually hitting the housing somehow? Maybe my eyesight and hearing are bad...but it almost seemed the knocking sound coincided with the idler/arm slightly jumping.

Might need one of those mechanic's stethoscope to figure out where it's coming from. It doesn't look to have anything obviously amiss.

Also, again, maybe just me...but is the attachment pulley and coupling sort of moving slightly in and out horizontally when engaged?


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

I swear I can see a small spark or flash down by the coupling when the noise happens - might the idler arm be physically *hitting* the coupling?


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

To me...there's horizontal travel of the jaw coupling for the frame and the jaw clutch for the attachment while coupled. They seemed to be ever so slightly moving back and forth together. I can see the spring/jaw clutch maybe, but not the jaw coupling on the frame side. That should simply rotate..

Maybe the spindle/bearing housing? Like maybe the bearing housing is cracked or the bearings have blown? Looks like there's 4 cap screws, washers, and I'm assuming lock nuts holding that to the frame. I admit to not knowing how all those pieces fit together under there.

I'm no expert, but I don't think when those two jaws mesh together that there's supposed to be any play with both of them together. So to me, where do those attach to? We know there's a spring for the jaw clutch to push it out - but the frame jaw coupling...I have to believe that should only rotate with the driven sheave.

Drive plate, spindle running through bearing housing with a bearing on each side...frame, then driven sheave and jaw coupling.

I dunno. Maybe I'm seeing things.


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

The idler pulley arm seems to be fine and doesn't appear to be hitting anything. As you can see in the video, when I engage only the transmission, it's smooth, no issues. It's when I engage the auger is when there's an issue. The idler moving around is due to the knocking issue with the auger coupler. I'm awaiting for parts to arrive to tear into it. Maybe a bearing change will fix my issues.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Looks to me like those clutch dogs are worn badly, lots of space was seen while you engaged the drive. I agree with Jackmels that the spline shaft needs to be oiled.

if you have some snow that you can snow blow I think you should try and see if the noise goes away when you put it under a load, I believe the noise will go away due to the fact it's under load and the play / wear will be taken up and not allowed to freewheel and jump around. 

Slight outside chance there might be something inside the gearbox that is getting momentarily jammed and causing the shock to the auger drive setup. I've seen the roll pin that holds the gear on the shaft inside the gearbox partially break off and cause issues. 

Please keep us updated, I'm curious to get to the bottom of your issue. I've worked on hundreds of those gearboxes and they are very strong.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Ariens also notes that you can get noise if the bucket is not seated correctly causing a bit of misalignment . . . I don't see that in the vid, but then again, it's pretty small ... Can't really tell how things assemble from the docs - looks like the coupling goes on the shaft and then the pulley bolts to that with three flange head fasteners . . . Likely under load, were those loose, it could get nasty as well . . .


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

So it appears the worst may have happened for this machine. I went to test it out in some snow today and while the impeller kept turning, the auger rakes stopped. Hopefully it's just a shear key somewhere but I'm wondering if something is rather unhealthy with the gearbox given the fact the shear pins didn't give out.


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

There are a few possibilities. 1-Shear Pins, 2-Roll Pin in Gearbox, 3-Roll pins in Impeller, 4-Gears in Gearbox Shot


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

If the rakes spin freely in unison, but the impeller isn't - my first hunch is the Helicon gear's spring tension pin.

When mine went on my 922003, I could grab onto a rake, tug down to spin, and it's revolve roughly 10 revolutions before stopping. NO resistance at all. I'd run the engine, engage the clutch...impeller/shaft spinning like normal, no rake movement at all.

I then drained the gear case oil. 4 pieces of the roll pin came out with the oil. I could look through the top pipe plug and revolve the rakes and eventually the roll pin opening in the Helicon would line up with the rake shaft hole...I could stick a long straight pick through the Helicon plug opening all the way to the back of the gear case housing. The pin was completely gone.

I'd think I could simply put a new pin in, but I have no idea how many more pieces of the prior pin are still in there. Therefore the safe bet is disassembly of the gear case. I'm betting I'll find the other pieces still in there. However, I'm simply looking for a whole new assembly from a parts machine instead.

The precursor to all this was a pounding sound that only occurred when the clutch was engaged and the rakes revolving. My hunch is that the Helicons were not in alignment (hence the pounding...tooth on tooth most likely) because the roll pin was barely hanging on for dear life.

Then the first snow of this year, started plowing snow and within 5 seconds...she went.


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

Jackmels said:


> There are a few possibilities. 1-Shear Pins, 2-Roll Pin in Gearbox, 3-Roll pins in Impeller, 4-Gears in Gearbox Shot


 I'm going with the gears are shot because the auger rakes do not spin freely. They bind up and have about a quarter turn of free play. Now to track down a gearbox for this machine.


Going to tear the machine apart today to determine the true cause. We're getting more snow tomorrow and I'm down to one functional machine right now.


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## Lottstodo (Feb 16, 2018)

You may want to check to make sure the blower housing is seated and aligned correctly with the tractor housing, have seen these with bent lower frames from being dropped when separated, as a bent mount or bad mounting area can cause the 2 clutch halves not to align perfectly and each will try to correct itself as it spins and creates a knocking rattle and as well try to disengage itself , because it cannot center and balance with the other half. So you could have the 2 halves out of square with one another , and it can be lft ,rt or top , bottom .


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

Well I'm afraid it's the worst gentlemen. The gearbox is completely toast. Both gears have shredded teeth, the impeller shaft being the worst. I took some pictures that I'll upload later but I'm afraid this machine is out of service for awhile. Does anyone have a gearbox to one of these machines? Or even a complete auger set?


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

edited - looks like you've already put up a post in the classifieds. Good luck!


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## gsnod (Sep 2, 2013)

At about the 25 second point on the first video.....that impeller looks like it is spinning weird. I wonder whether there is a broken impeller pin?

Sorry -- just read the note about the bad gearbox....


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