# Sticky  Servicing the right and hydrostatic transmission



## JnC

*Servicing the right and hydrostatic transmission (Pictures re-uploaded 10/28/18)*

*EDIT (10/29/2018): All the pictures were recovered and re-uploaded onto SBF site, enjoy.
*


This thread is for general discussion concerning the right transmission and the hydrostatic transmission found on most track/wheel assisted HS series snow blowers. Someone correct me if I am wrong but the right transmission might only be for the track assisted machines. 

Current condition of the right/final gear transmission. While overhauling the blower I noticed the rubber seal, part#15 in the illustration below, had perished. I suspected it let dirt in the casing, which was later affirmed when I opened the case. 

- Notice the contaminated grease. 
- Bearings are fine.
-* Can anyone point out what type of grease Honda has used in the gear case?*

- I intend on replacing the grease.
- Change part #14
- Install new gasket, part #2.


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## JnC

*Hydrostatic transmission*

The main reason I had the snow blower pulled apart is to rectify the leak that the hydrostatic transmission has developed. Fluid had accumulated all around the transmission case and over the years turned into gunk due to the dirt from the surroundings. I couldnt really pin point the exact location of the leak but it seems that the oil seals are weeping. 










Illustrations from the shop manual, courtesy *[email protected]* 




























here is how the transmission looks right now, its been slightly cleaned to rid some of the gunk on it. 

Notice the seals around the drive shaft, pulley shaft and the dust cap on the engage/disengage lever. (part #49, 51 and 50 in the illustration above), also notice the gaskets between the rear casing and distributor plate along with gasket between front casing and distributor plate (part # 3 and 14 in the illustration above).

engage/disengage lever










right side drive shaft seal










left side drive shaft seal










pulley side seal










this picture show the two gaskets sandwiched between the three pieces of transmission case (back, distributor and front)


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## JnC

The illustrations above are to aid taking the transmission off of the chassis and disassembling it, I have asked Robert if he can kindly provide the shop manual section on reassemble as well since I'll need the torque specs on the housing bolts.


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## Apple Guy

I would use a high molybdenum grease or a synthetic molybdenum grease. The grease that they used just by it's looks, looks like cheap common grease. Thanks for this post, the pictures will help me find the best spot to drill a grease hole in the gearbox while it is still in the snowblower. I have choosen to NOT add a grease zerk after drilling my access hole to keep as much aluminum chips out of the case. I will use a grease needle to inject grease into gearbox and then seal the small hole with Permatex High Temp silicone because it seals far better then their common cheap stuff that is worthless as a silicone sealer. http://www.californiaperformance.com/Grease needle tip.jpg .


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## JnC

Apple Guy said:


> I would use a high molybdenum grease or a synthetic molybdenum grease. The grease that they used just by it's looks, looks like cheap common grease. Thanks for this post, the pictures will help me find the best spot to drill a grease hole in the gearbox while it is still in the snowblower. I have choosen to NOT add a grease zerk after drilling my access hole to keep as much aluminum chips out of the case. I will use a grease needle to inject grease into gearbox and then seal the small hole with Permatex High Temp silicone because it seals far better then their common cheap stuff that is worthless as a silicone sealer. http://www.californiaperformance.com/Grease%20needle%20tip.jpg .



I'll look into that and yes the grease does feel/looks like it has passed its prime. 

My only gripe with the design is the lack of a seal towards the inside of the shaft and also where the shaft from the hydro transmission comes in. As you can see form the pictures moisture/dirt has gotten in from both sides of the shaft, one side is due to the dust seal perishing and the other side from not having a seal at all. 


I was also thinking about installing a quick release grease fitting, something similar to the ones I have on my JD Z445 lawn mower spindles. 




















and here is the grease/grease gun I use, makes greasing the spindles a breeze, couple of pumps every 5~10 hours.


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## JnC

Got the scans from the shop manual, thanks again [email protected] 

I cleaned up all the parts in the right transmission, just waiting on parts to come in before I put it back together. 

*Does any one know how much I need to torque the transmission bolts when putting the hydro back together?* I havent opened it yet, waiting on the seals and gaskets to come in before i open it, change the gaskets and bolt it back together in one sitting.


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## Grunt

Here is a metric torque chart using foot\lbs.
Metric Bolt Torque Table - CNCexpo.com


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## JnC

Grunt said:


> Here is a metric torque chart using foot\lbs.
> Metric Bolt Torque Table - CNCexpo.com



Thank you  , also got this from [email protected]


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## JnC

So the parts finally came in and I got cracking on the service. After getting the transmission on the bench I cleaned it up real good and tried to inspect everything. Upon close inspection it turns out that the main gaskets are not the cause of the weeping/leak. The three oil seals around the main shaft, pulley shaft, faulty O ring around the neutral lever and the dust seal around the neutral lever need to be changed to rectify the issue. 

While changing the seals I also came to the conclusion that the seals are meant to weep over time as there is no way they can keep all the fluid inside the transmission over the life of the snowblower. I'd also like to mention here that the transmission worked flawlessly before I decided to service everything. 

I did however replace and bleed the transmission with all new Honda Hydrostatic fluid. 

On the bench










Dust seal removed along with the neutral lever.










Neutral lever (notice the O ring around it, the O ring was also replaced)













The lever, new seal and a 10 mm socket to push the seal in place. 











lever installed back










seal installed, also showing the socket












same process was used to replace the seals around the shaft and pulley shaft. 

Here is an image showing the right side of the transmission with the seal removed.


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## JnC

*Gearcase rebuild*

The gear case and all its components were cleaned thoroughly and all the old contaminated grease was replaced with new grease along new dust seal. 

All parts cleaned and ready to go










bearings installed










all components put back together, the shop manual indicates where to apply new grease, which is pretty much everywhere. 










back side 










outside, notice the new seal, I am still not sold on the idea of this seal keeping all the elements out as it doesnt snap into anything, more of a floating seal.


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## JnC

*Air bleeding the hydrostatic transmission*

I know there are a few thread that indicate the portion of the service manual on how to air bleed the transmission, I thought I'd share a few key pointers from my experience along with the actual steps that I took. 

- The transmission needs to be off of the blower and on the work bench in order to get the fluid replaced, you can not properly bleed the system while the transmission is still on the blower. 

- I know the HST fluid is suppose to last the life of the blower but the color difference that I saw between the old HST fluid that I drained and the new HST fluid was astonishing. Old fluid was clear but was cloudy gray for the most part, new HST fluid is clear as water. 

- In one of the steps the manual wants you the install the drive pulley on the cross shaft and rotate it, I have the TA model and the drive pulley does not fit the cross shaft due to difference in diameter. I had to use vise-grips on the cross shaft to perform this procedure. 

Steps.

1) Rest the transmission facing down on the bench, with the drain bolt facing upwards. 
2) Remove the drain bolt and drain washer. Start draining the HST fluid, once it slows down remove the fill cap on HST reservoir along with the diaphragm, the rest fill follow. 
3) Once all the HST fluid is drained hold the reservoir one hand pour HST fluid into it, till it starts coming out from the drain hole. *I had completely drained my HST, it took about 25~27 ounces before the fluid started oozing out from the drain bolt. *
4) At this point install the drain bolt/washer, torque it to *29 ft/lbs*.
5) Have someone help you whilst doing this as it comes in handy when the reservoir needs to be held up higher than the transmission. 
6) Lay the HST flat on its bottom, you'll notice air bubbles coming up through the hose in the reservoir, move the transmission around a bit to make sure all of air comes up. 
7) Add more HST fluid till the level is up to "upper limit" on the reservoir, install diaphragm and cap. 
8) Push the neutral lever inwards (released position).
9) Rotate the cross shaft 10 turns anti-clockwise.
10) Pull the neutral lever outwards (engaged position).
11) Move the clutch arm all the way to the left or right before the next step. 
12) Rotate the driven pulley 30 times anticlockwise. Make sure you observe the cross shaft, it needs to be turning while you rotate the driven pulley.
13) One important bit, the clutch arm will try to throb back while you are turning the driven pulley stopping the cross shaft from moving, it helps if you hold it in fully engaged (left or right) position.

I repeated steps 8~13 a couple of times to make sure all was well, checked the HST level once more. 

Here is a post from [email protected] with all the above steps as listed in the service manual. 


[email protected] said:


> Sorry I'm late
> 
> The HST fluid in all Honda snowblowers *is good for the life of the unit*. The only regular service is to check the level and top off. Leaking units (rare) would need to be inspected and the source found. The HST fluid is not consumed like engine oil, nor does it ever really wear out. Unless you're having some kind of problem, leak, etc. there is no reason to just "change the HST fluid."
> 
> But, if you think the fluid is contaminated or other problems, there is a drain bolt, BUT, if you drain the fluid, then refill it, you must fully bleed the transmission, and to do this properly requires removing the transmission from the snowblower. I've never known someone to do this while it is still installed, and based on the bleeding procedure, it does not seem viable. *Strongly suggest you don't drain the transmission, but just check and top off the fluid if it is not leaking or having any problems.*
> 
> 
> Still reading? Okay, there is a drain bolt on the lower part of the transmission case near the transmission release lever. You may need to tip the unit rearward to fully drain the case. (sorry, I don't have a good clear image of this).
> 
> When refilling, the total capacity of the transmission is 0.793 quart, and it is very important to only fill with genuine Honda HST Fluid. No other aftermarket fluid/oil is approved for use with a Honda hydrostatic transmission. FYI, Honda is NOT trying to get rich off this, the engineers had to create a special formula for the Honda HST, and no other fluid was ever tested or approved. There is a scale on the side of the fill tank with UPPER and LOWER level marks, and fluid should be filled to meet the mark matching the outdoor temp.:
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> Next, you must bleed the system to purge all air; here's the procedure.
> 
> 1. Remember, this assumes you have removed the transmission from the unit. That procedure requires:
> a. remove engine
> b. remove auger housing
> c. remove tension pulley / auger brake
> d. remove tracks (TA models)
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> *Resources:*
> Genuine Honda factory shop manual (paper only, ebay or amazon, direct from Honda, free shipping and updates for 3 years)
> 
> Amazon.com: Honda HS624 HS724 HS828 HS928 HS1132 Snow blower Service Repair Shop Manual: Patio, Lawn & Garden
> 
> Honda HS624 HS724 HS828 HS928 HS1132 Snow Blower Service Repair Shop Manual | eBay
> 
> 
> *HST Fluid: *
> Genuine Honda HST fluid, 1 quart bottle, Part Number *08208-HST01*. Google the part number to find online, or use this link to find a local Honda dealer:
> 
> *Find A Honda Dealer*


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## JnC

Here is a picture of old fluid removed from a 1997 model HS1132, the little bit of fluid that sits in the HST fluid resorvoir only had a slight brown tint but as you can see the removed fluid is like dirty old motor oil. New Honda HST fluid is clear as water by the way.


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## jtclays

JnC, I never saw this post when you started, thanks for the great write up
With all the hoopla over the new HSS, likely a bunch of "new to me" HS owners will be trickling in for advice and this will help greatly. Mods should consider this for a sticky in the Honda section, IMO.


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## JnC

*Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 1 of 4*

Here is a comprehensive guide on how to put together the right transmission for the Track assisted models.
*
Note: Wheeled version right transmission has one less gear and the shaft runs through the middle gear right than the one shown on the outside of the three below.*

Parts diagram 










this is what the current gear case/transmission looked like when I opened it first, water gets in through the shaft opening over the years and spoils the OEM grease. 










All parts cleaned up, got some new bearings as well as the old ones were shot. 










got some RTV silicone, cleaned up gear casing. 










I really wanted to install a grease fitting just in case I ever needed to throw some fresh grease in the casing, couldnt do it last time when I serviced the HS924. Checked the HS924 to see where it'd be easy to access and service the casing once everything is put back together. 










marked the spot on the HS1132 casing










new fitting installed










view from within the casing 










lather some grease in the hole and install the plastic gear stay like so 










install gear stay washer 














jtclays said:


> JnC, I never saw this post when you started, thanks for the great write up
> With all the hoopla over the new HSS, likely a bunch of "new to me" HS owners will be trickling in for advice and this will help greatly. Mods should consider this for a sticky in the Honda section, IMO.




Indeed, I wish this information was available when I first did the flush on my first Honda, I had to gather most of it from research and through the resident Honda oracle, Robert . 

By the way the cheapest place to buy Honda HST is Partspack

https://www.partspak.com/productcar...uid-HST-12-oz-New-08208-HST02-4550p330618.htm

To do a complete flush/bleed you'd need to get at least three of the above 12 oz bottles. I wish honda still made the HST fluid quarts, it doesnt hurt to buy 2~3 bottles but I had to purchase 13 bottles over the summer to do a complete flush/bleed on my Honda H3013 lawn mower :facepalm_zpsdj194qh.


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## Apple Guy

JnC said:


> Here is a picture of old fluid removed from a 1997 model HS1132, the little bit of fluid that sits in the HST fluid resorvoir only had a slight brown tint but as you can see the removed fluid is like dirty old motor oil. New Honda HST fluid is clear as water by the way.


 OH!!!!! You did not have to change that........ Honda SAYS it is a LIFETIME fluid. We know better (Honda) so don't even think of changing that fluid. And then there are the "sheep" that seem to believe anything a manufacture says and think YOU are nuts for changing it. Another example of how totally off base Honda is ... they tell people to leave the break-in oil in their new cars till the oil meter says 15% which is 5,000 to 6,500 miles. Honda is the only manufacture that has a break-in oil. That is frickin NUTS to leave a factory fill in for 5,000 to 6,500 miles. The only thing the oil has is more molybdenum in it's oil. I dumped my new Honda Fit's oil at 800 miles and replaced it with a high molybdenum oil IE Schaeffer's Schaeffer Oil | Supreme 7000™ . Added to this crap the manufactures tell the common users. 1) Go easy on your brakes when they are new = WRONG 2) go easy on breaking in your motor=WRONG .


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## JnC

*Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 2 of 4*

install new bearings in the case










start working on the middle bearing first. Apply some grease










install washer










apply grease on the gear and install it so, notice the notches in the middle, they need to be facing upwards. 










Install the shaft



















prepare the main drive shaft hole










install the washer and collar on the shaft like so and guide it through the hole 



















other drive shaft components.


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## JnC

*Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 3 of 4*

install the gear with notches for the drive pin facing downwards










install a washer onto the shaft and then the shaft collar, notice the collar orientation


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## jrom

Big time thanks!

Best of the best. Official field guide material for the NAHESBA [North American Honda Extreme Snow Blower Association ].


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## Prime

Im currently in this process. Bought a used HS928 the counter shaft and cog were shot. How did you remove the bearings?


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## JnC

*Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 4 of 4*

install the small gear onto the middle shaft










install the small washer onto the gear










next, install the third gear, this one goes around the input shaft coming from the HST transmission, "Down" indication shows the side facing towards the HST shaft. 



















at this point I applied some RTV to the casing and lathered on some more grease











then goes on the gasket










ease on the cover/side chassis piece to the gear case, make sure everything sits in place, especially the plastic gear stay piece that you put on the chassis piece in the beginning. The grease would hold it in place when you flip the chassis piece over. 

There are 6 nuts and bolts that hold everything in place, two of them have a built in collar. 










line up all the holes










the nuts that go on the other side sit in place within the casing, you just have to hold them in the beginning before the bolt catches them










torque everything to 7.2lbs and you are done. 














Prime said:


> Im currently in this process. Bought a used HS928 the counter shaft and cog were shot. How did you remove the bearings?


Non of the bearings are pressed in or anything, if a bearing is sticking and is not coming off then its cause of corrosion or oxidation. To get them off of the shaft I use a bearing puller, make sure to sand the rest of the shaft before trying the bearing puller as doing so will help take it off of the shaft easily.

For the bearings inside the gear case, I heat up the area around the bearing, use some Kroil and most of the time they pop right out.


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## Prime

The centre blind hole bearing was stuck pretty hard. Tried a few different methods to no avail. I was about to order a puller kit when I saw this video on youtube. Had some doubts but this worked very well. 10 minutes bearing was out. Check this out...


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## JnC

Nice, gotta love youtube and the ingenuity .


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## YSHSfan

Prime said:


> The centre blind hole bearing was stuck pretty hard. Tried a few different methods to no avail. I was about to order a puller kit when I saw this video on youtube. Had some doubts but this worked very well. 10 minutes bearing was out. Check this out...


This is a common "trick" to get pilot bearings/bushings out. It works fairly well. You can also use wheel bearing grease or very small pieces of paper soaked in water instead of wax.....


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## gracolcr

*Counter Shaft Airlocked*

I am in the process of putting my HS928 right transmission back together, when I insert the counter shaft into the housing/bearing it always springs out as there is no way to allow air out air. 

Any input would be appreciated.


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## YSHSfan

gracolcr said:


> I am in the process of putting my HS928 right transmission back together, when I insert the counter shaft into the housing/bearing it always springs out as there is no way to allow air out air.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated.


If you spin it as you install it, it'll likely do the trick.


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## Prime

JnC said:


> Nice, gotta love youtube and the ingenuity .


I like your idea of putting a grease fitting. After seeing how the gears stack I feel 2 would be better. One over each set of gears. Giving em a few shots between servicing the tranny.
Manual says greasing the transmission annually before use. I dont think too many are opening these up every year.


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## JnC

gracolcr said:


> I am in the process of putting my HS928 right transmission back together, when I insert the counter shaft into the housing/bearing it always springs out as there is no way to allow air out air.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated.


If you have too much grease in the bearing slot then that will happen as the coutershaft is just acting like a piston when you try to install it in the bearing. Just leave a slight film of grease in between the bearing and the shaft and you should be fine.


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## gracolcr

Thank you for the response, I put it all back together yesterday and too much grease was the problem.


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## gracolcr

hsblowersfan said:


> If you spin it as you install it, it'll likely do the trick.



All done Thanks for the response.


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## JnG

Hi, this is a great post. In my case, I am replying the countershaft, the countershaft gear, and as a result of water and dirt getting into the case, I have to replace the bushing that is in the right engine bed (where the countershaft is inserted). The bushing is in rough shape in the right engine bed has a lot of play after all the wear and tear over the last 10 years. 

The repair manual says I should use a 12 mm bearing removal tool. But it's not a bearing. Should I get or borrow a 12 mm bearing removal tool? (as I don't have one). 

Did you replace the counter shaft bushing (part 23222-767-A11) which I assume is the part stuck in my right engine bed?

I am going with the grease fitting too. Good idea. Thanks very much for your post and answering my question if you have time.


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## YSHSfan

JnG said:


> The repair manual says I should use a 12 mm bearing removal tool. But it's not a bearing. Should I get or borrow a 12 mm bearing removal tool? (as I don't have one).
> 
> Did you replace the counter shaft bushing (part 23222-767-A11) which I assume is the part stuck in my right engine bed?


If I remember right, the bushing is a plastic part. If so, to remove it just insert a flat blade screwdriver behind it and pull it out, if it breaks is fine as it would be replaced. 
After removing it, make sure that you clean the old grease or corrosion build up on the bore before inserting the new bushing.


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## oljm

Hi JnC,

Well, it's time to think about scheduling maintenance projects over the spring/summer months.
I like to open mine up and see what the peanut butter looks like.

In your original set of pictures, I noticed you had a grey/silvery (moly?) type grease.
In this set of pictures, you are using red (marine tacky?) grease.
Any comments on what grease you had better luck with or preferred? Please post pointers to brands if you can.

Your posts are very descriptive and well written btw.
A few questions on parts.
Why do we need to change part #14? Looks like a metal pin right? 
What do these pins do?

You mentioned some things about various seals, any writeup on how to check if we need to replace these or otherwise look for signs of leakage?

Any writeup on how to disassemble the tracks? Doe we need to untension the 2 bolt/nut tensioners on the back of the machine?

How many hours does this job require if we are just servicing the right side of the transmission but NOT changing the hydrostatic unit?


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## JnC

The first rebuild I did was indeed with the grey grease, at that time that’s all I had, a whole tub full of it hence I ended up using it. 

Since then I have switched to Mobil 1 synthetic grease, just works better IMO. 

I believe 14 is just the cotter pin, mine must have been broken or missing that I had to change it. 

The pin drives the front track wheels by going through the wheel itself and the shaft. 

The HST oil seals bleed over time, I have seen it in many HS series Hondas, just depends on how old the machine is, it’s nothing to worry about just clean it with some mineral spirits and it should be good. In my first build I thought that to be an issue, which it really was not. 

When I rebuild the gear case I usually have the whole machine ripped apart as I am rebuilding the whole snow blower, in your case I'd recommend tipping the blower on its front and then accessing the right side chassis plate and gear box. 

Notice the above method in the following video






If you have all the tools etc then it shouldn’t be more than 20~30 minutes to gut out the ride side, another 20 or 30 to put it all back together. 

1.	Loosen the track tensioning bolts. 
2.	Remove both clevis/cotter pins from both the wheels; the back one would have a washer on it as well. 
3.	Slide out the track. 
4.	Remove the washer/s from behind the wheel/s as well, keep track of where each one of them goes, as the front wheel washers and pins are different than the rear. 
5.	Remove the three bolts that hold the bearing holder to the track guide plate. 
6.	Remove the color from the driveshaft and slide the track guide/plate out. 
7.	There should be another cotter pin behind the bearing, remove the bearing and the cotter pin. The bearing might be seized on there, so you may have to pull it off using a bearing puller. 
8.	Undo the chassis bolts holding the chassis plate along with the 6 or 7 bolts holding the gear case to the plate. 
9.	Remove the chassis plate, it might have to be tinkered with a bit to get it off as there is a gasket between the gear case and the plate, this gasket is usually stuck to the plate. 


At this point you should have access to the internals of the gear case. 

One word of advice is to remove as much gas from the gas tank before tipping the machine over, also try to do this before you intend on doing an oil change on the machine. Just drain the oil out, do the gear case service and once that’s done go ahead and refill the motor with oil. This will save you from having any unnecessary spills. 

Good luck.


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## FlyingTiger

*HS928 Axle Seal Replacement*

I need to replace the axle seals on my HS928TA does anyone have the correct part number and repair procedures?


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## mathpaq

Hello,

I'm in the middle of all that and i have a quick question regarding step #12 of the bleeding process. When i engage the clutch arm to the left (blower moving forward), the cross shaft turns when i turn the pulley so everything is find. But when i put the clutch arm to the right (blower moving aft), the cross shaft does not move. Is it just a question of the transmission not being bled properly?

I have to mention that i didn't know about the hole removing the hst when changing the fluid so at first i drained it in place and filled it back up... I started the blower after that and i would go forward but wouldn't go into reverse. I started reading after my mistake and than i removed the hole thing to bleed it correctly and now i'm stuck with that problem...

Thanks,

Math.


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## orangputeh

JnC said:


> The first rebuild I did was indeed with the grey grease, at that time that’s all I had, a whole tub full of it hence I ended up using it.
> 
> Since then I have switched to Mobil 1 synthetic grease, just works better IMO.
> 
> I believe 14 is just the cotter pin, mine must have been broken or missing that I had to change it.
> 
> The pin drives the front track wheels by going through the wheel itself and the shaft.
> 
> The HST oil seals bleed over time, I have seen it in many HS series Hondas, just depends on how old the machine is, it’s nothing to worry about just clean it with some mineral spirits and it should be good. In my first build I thought that to be an issue, which it really was not.
> 
> When I rebuild the gear case I usually have the whole machine ripped apart as I am rebuilding the whole snow blower, in your case I'd recommend tipping the blower on its front and then accessing the right side chassis plate and gear box.
> 
> Notice the above method in the following video
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXLpGWKzCBo&t=30s
> 
> If you have all the tools etc then it shouldn’t be more than 20~30 minutes to gut out the ride side, another 20 or 30 to put it all back together.
> 
> 1.	Loosen the track tensioning bolts.
> 2.	Remove both clevis/cotter pins from both the wheels; the back one would have a washer on it as well.
> 3.	Slide out the track.
> 4.	Remove the washer/s from behind the wheel/s as well, keep track of where each one of them goes, as the front wheel washers and pins are different than the rear.
> 5.	Remove the three bolts that hold the bearing holder to the track guide plate.
> 6.	Remove the color from the driveshaft and slide the track guide/plate out.
> 7.	There should be another cotter pin behind the bearing, remove the bearing and the cotter pin. The bearing might be seized on there, so you may have to pull it off using a bearing puller.
> 8.	Undo the chassis bolts holding the chassis plate along with the 6 or 7 bolts holding the gear case to the plate.
> 9.	Remove the chassis plate, it might have to be tinkered with a bit to get it off as there is a gasket between the gear case and the plate, this gasket is usually stuck to the plate.
> 
> 
> At this point you should have access to the internals of the gear case.
> 
> One word of advice is to remove as much gas from the gas tank before tipping the machine over, also try to do this before you intend on doing an oil change on the machine. Just drain the oil out, do the gear case service and once that’s done go ahead and refill the motor with oil. This will save you from having any unnecessary spills.
> 
> Good luck.



great info. i have to laugh when you say it should take 20-30 minutes to take it off. from my experience it takes me 3 times longer than a normal person, ha ha.

how long did it take you the first time? i haven't attempted this before but with this thread and helpful posts I will try soon.

i have 2 hs50's with drives not working and i suspect it is the side gearboxes since the friction disks contact and that all works right but when i move the tracks the free axle moves but not the drive axle. so would this same procedure work on the 50?

I spoke to the honda mechanic at the dealer and he just told me that honda didn't make the part anymore that breaks in those side gearboxes. he did not elaborate. they way he spoke I was SOL.

I looked at the diagram in the shop manual and that side gearbox only has maybe 4 parts and boats.net carries them all. do you have experience with this problem with the 50?


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## JnC

When I did it the first time it was a learning experience hence I really took my time on taking everything apart carefully and documenting everything, so cant really give an accurate time taken to complete the reconditioning. 

If I was to do it now then it shouldnt take any more than 30 minutes to get to the part, that is if nothing is frozen on i.e. bearing etc. 

I suspect the HS50 right reduction box is the same design as the older Yamahas hence is why they only have a few moving parts. If you have the shop manual then it should be a walk in the park.


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## hobkirk

JnC said:


> A bit of an update to this thread, OP lives in next town over from me so we communicated a bit and I offered to stop by and take a look at the machine. Took the tracks off and opened the right transmission and it had a few issues.
> 
> 1) Grease had gone bad due to water, salt/sand getting in the case over the years.
> 2) All gears had pitting and a couple of teeth were worn due to sand and oxidation.
> 3) All bearings were shot.
> 4) Secondary shaft/pin bushing was eaten up as suspected by "prime" initially.
> 5) Bushing for the main drive shaft was gone.
> 6) All the bearings on the drive shaft were bad.
> 7) The opening in the gear case and on the chassis plate were enlarged due to the driveshaft being wobbly.
> 
> OP ordered the parts last week and we got together yesterday to put everything together. All is well now and the machine is back up and running as it should with tracks treading smoothly forward and back.


*JnC was FANTASTIC! *

*Here's the OP perspective:*

I studied his sticky post on "servicing the transmission and HS" - I STUDIED IT!
I started work on it, pulling off the right side plate. Yuck!
The actual cause of the problem was not obvious. So I studied the post again.
I clicked on "JnC" so I could send him a "Thank You" message. His words and pictures were fabulous. And I noticed he was in Bedford - hey, that's only 10 miles from me!
JnC responded that he would stop by and check it out. Wow! That was wonderful.
JnC showed up and dived right in. I had the machine perched on its side, with the right side up. He put it on its nose and ripped apart the left side, pulling all the axle parts out.
He identified the problem almost immediately, showing me where the play was excessive, etc. FYI, all the bearings on the axle and 3 inside the transmission were bad. My idea that I just needed to repair problems inside the transmission right case was completely wrong.
That evening he sent me links for all the parts I needed and clued me into Boats.net as a GREAT source for parts.
Yesterday JnC came again and in 2-3 hours reassembled the blower, added oil, and did a test drive. Wow!
I have an excellent tool collection (I owned a 5-man VW/Audi/Porsche repair shop for 14 years), although I was never a mechanic _(although I did do the occasional clutch or valve job)._ But I'm 72 and I've lost some of my skills, both mental and physical. I would have spent many, many hours, probably replacing unnecessary parts, bought from the local dealer. I probably would have finally realized there were problems with the axle bearings after I found the blower wasn't working properly. And I might not have managed to get it working correctly without realizing what was wrong.

*Instead I got to assist a true wizard for 5-6 hours *for 5-6 hours. He was gracious and entertaining. How remarkable is that?

*THANK YOU, JnC!
*
*P S -* Getting the bearings out of the transmission case was difficult. I had to resort to using a pro car mechanic with a pilot bearing puller.


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## elevman1968

Wondering if anybody out there got any suggestions.... just rebuilt the right side transmission on my hs928 because of a sheared pin on the drive shaft... put it back together and ran it for an hour and then it quit... seems like something hooking or clunking in the right side transmission... hs trannie shaft is turning fine..... appears to be a gear mis-alignment.... any suggestions..??


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## YSHSfan

elevman1968 said:


> Wondering if anybody out there got any suggestions.... just rebuilt the right side transmission on my hs928 because of a sheared pin on the drive shaft... put it back together and ran it for an hour and then it quit... seems like something hooking or clunking in the right side transmission... hs trannie shaft is turning fine..... appears to be a gear mis-alignment.... any suggestions..??


I can't see a gear misalignment causing that.
What I can think of is that perhaps the splines on the hydro shaft to the right transmission are stripped. 
The gears inside the transmission will not 'skip' unless the they are really worn out or the bearings are shot.
What did you use for a pin...? maybe it broke again....?


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## elevman1968

I replaced the shaft and just about everything else....the hs shaft looked good...im questioning the thrust washers or may be the lack of..... when I take the weight off the tracks it seems to be fine... biggest issue I believe was too many hands in the repair


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## elevman1968

The washer for the gear on hs shaft was in place for sure unless it moved when I was putting itback together.....if it moved I may very well have the hs shaft damaged....im not so sure about one of the washers on the differential gear


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## YSHSfan

Unfortunately you may have to take it back apart and inspect it carefully.
One thing that you can look at first is the belt condition and tension. We had a member having issues with the drive which turned out to be the belt.
When I disassembled one of mine the splines of the shaft that comes from the hydro had some damage but not too bad but the gear where it connects had no splines left. I ended up buying a good used side transmission, took it apart, rebuild it as needed and installed it.


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## elevman1968

Thanks.... will strip it down again and investigate further....one more attempt and off to the Honda shop it goes....


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## elevman1968

Thought I would post an update... I took the right side transmission apart again and discovered a thrust washer left off the differential gear... causeing it to move off the shaft pins and skip under load...as an added note I put the washer back in and put the assembly back together only to realize there is quite a bit of lateral movement in that shaft... I beginning to wonder if this isnt part of the reason why these pins shear off to start with....I took apart again and added shims between the differential gear and side plate done the same for the counter shaft and input sprocket.... feels better... hopefullly good for another few years


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## orangputeh

JnC said:


> Here is a comprehensive guide on how to put together the right transmission for the Track assisted models.
> *
> Note: Wheeled version right transmission has one less gear and the shaft runs through the middle gear right than the one shown on the outside of the three below.*
> 
> Parts diagram
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is what the current gear case/transmission looked like when I opened it first, water gets in through the shaft opening over the years and spoils the OEM grease.
> 
> 
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> 
> All parts cleaned up, got some new bearings as well as the old ones were shot.
> 
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> 
> got some RTV silicone, cleaned up gear casing.
> 
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> 
> 
> I really wanted to install a grease fitting just in case I ever needed to throw some fresh grease in the casing, couldnt do it last time when I serviced the HS924. Checked the HS924 to see where it'd be easy to access and service the casing once everything is put back together.
> 
> 
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> marked the spot on the HS1132 casing
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> new fitting installed
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> view from within the casing
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> lather some grease in the hole and install the plastic gear stay like so
> 
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> install gear stay washer
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> install new bearings in the case
> 
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> start working on the middle bearing first. Apply some grease
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> install washer
> 
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> apply grease on the gear and install it so, notice the notches in the middle, they need to be facing upwards.
> 
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> Install the shaft
> 
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> prepare the main drive shaft hole
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> install the washer and collar on the shaft like so and guide it through the hole
> 
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> other drive shaft components.
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> install the gear with notches for the drive pin facing downwards
> 
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> 
> install a washer onto the shaft and then the shaft collar, notice the collar orientation


darn.....all the pics are gone. I have the shop manual but pictures work better for me.


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## YSHSfan

orangputeh said:


> darn.....all the pics are gone. I have the shop manual but pictures work better for me.


This may be your opportunity to take some pictures and upload them here for future reference :smile2:


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## JnC

So I was able to find my old login info for the tinypic account and retrieve all the pictures, all of them have been saved, re-uploaded to SBF site and all the pertinent posts have been adjusted accordingly. I had to move a few things around in my post to accommodate all the pictures as one post can only have 10 pictures.


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## JnC

I have seen at least a few dozen of these gearboxes over the past few years and honestly they are getting worse and worse regardless of the age of the machine. 



The water/contamination is getting from the opening under the belly of the machine where you can inspect the belts. I dont see any purpose of that opening beside just being able to visibly confirm if the belt is broken or on its way out. If its broken then you can tell that as the machine wont work by that time you'd have to open it apart anyway to change it. The opening is useless otherwise as you cant change the belts without having to take the bucket off of the chassis. 



Secondly, most of the water is getting into the gearbox through opening for the main driveshaft. 



Two ways you can delay the inevitable, significantly; one is by covering the opening under the belt area, this can be done by just using some sheet metal, cutting it to size, drilling 4 holes in it and then using the bolts used for the chassis and two or the bucket to bolt the piece onto the chassis, I have done that to my personal machine. 



Secondly, putting some silicone around the driveshaft and gearbox area. The silicone will help against water getting in the gearbox, its not strong enough to hold or hinder the rotation of the driveshaft but will stay in its place to help against dirt/water getting through.


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## orangputeh

JnC said:


> I have seen at least a few dozen of these gearboxes over the past few years and honestly they are getting worse and worse regardless of the age of the machine.
> 
> 
> 
> The water/contamination is getting from the opening under the belly of the machine where you can inspect the belts. I dont see any purpose of that opening beside just being able to visibly confirm if the belt is broken or on its way out. If its broken then you can tell that as the machine wont work by that time you'd have to open it apart anyway to change it. The opening is useless otherwise as you cant change the belts without having to take the bucket off of the chassis.
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, most of the water is getting into the gearbox through opening for the main driveshaft.
> 
> 
> 
> Two ways you can delay the inevitable, significantly; one is by covering the opening under the belt area, this can be done by just using some sheet metal, cutting it to size, drilling 4 holes in it and then using the bolts used for the chassis and two or the bucket to bolt the piece onto the chassis, I have done that to my personal machine.
> 
> 
> 
> Secondly, putting some silicone around the driveshaft and gearbox area. The silicone will help against water getting in the gearbox, its not strong enough to hold or hinder the rotation of the driveshaft but will stay in its place to help against dirt/water getting through.


i thought the opening was so snow/ice and anything else would not build up under there. the plates all have small spaces between them. it makes more sense if it were enclosed. The silicone sounds like a good thing. I have only opened up 3-4 of these right side tranny cases and all of them are horrible with caked grease and water contaminated. 2 of them still worked which was amazing and the other 2 had broken pins and teeth missing from the gears.


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## irayspot

JnC said:


> I know there are a few thread that indicate the portion of the service manual on how to air bleed the transmission, I thought I'd share a few key pointers from my experience along with the actual steps that I took.
> 
> - The transmission needs to be off of the blower and on the work bench in order to get the fluid replaced, you can not properly bleed the system while the transmission is still on the blower. ....


Hello .
I juste want to share my experience in changing the transmission oil.
I did it 5 years ago. I probably did some net search , I don’t remember. 
What I remember is not taking the tranny of of the Snowblower.
What I did then is fill the reservoir with oil and carefully take the drain plug off while the reservoir drop.
When the reservoir wood be almost empty, I would put the plug back and refill the reservoir.
That lasted on till the oil became clear (about a quart of oil).
I have to say, it is a long prosess, but if you don’t enjoy putting the snowblower apart it may be wort the try.

I did it again.
It have been another 5 years and I want to sale the 928, because I just got a new 1332....
This time, I had forgot about the last time, and did not take the time to remember.
I pul out the plug and empty the reservoir.
It was slow in the begainning, because the reservoir cap was on.
So after the tranny was empty, itry to refill it.
I fill the reservoir and a fiew boble of air came out from the oil.
Ooop, then I try to remember how I had did it 5 years before.
But it was to late.
I try moving and tilting the blower foward and backward.
I lift the back end to a 30 degre angle, because of the gas tank and the batterie I would risk going higher.
Then I look at the trans. tring to find a bleeding plug.
I saw this screw...
I ... My hand would’t fit in the space, so I ask ma 11 year old son to help.
But when I saw the screw that came out of there I knew it was’nt a plug.
I ask my son to put the screw back.
I continued to refill the oil reservoir all day because it would drop when the oil would go down it the trans. slowly.
At some point the oil stop to drop, so I start the moteur and try to move the blower.
It would go foward. but not backward.
I want out and give the 928 a ride, in case some air buble would came out and help get the reverse speed.

It never did. Remember that screw I took out to try and bleed.

At that point I took the blower apart and put the transmision on the banch.
I place the drain plug at the highest point and took it swiffly off.
Only oil came out. So I put the trans. on it side with the shifter down and look at the screw I had (my son) taken out.
By the time, I had find out what it was, reading this post! Thanks a lot by the way.
The screw actualy is a check valve made of a spring and a steel ball.
Some how, I had lost the ball but not the spring. I put the screw back and check the valve on the other side of the trans.
Helping myself with a magnet and a long tall screw, I took out the spring and yes, a 1/4 in steel ball.
I put the steel ball in the first check valve and with the help off a electric drill try the trans. reverse.
And it moved immediately. So I found a 1/4 in ball in a local bycycle shop (in my first net search).

I put it in the trans. and try it. It work!
I then put the blower back in one piece.

So this is my five cent. I needed to share!:smile2::crying:

Forgive my writing, I try my best but I am writing oftem in english.


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## orangputeh

irayspot said:


> Hello .
> I juste want to share my experience in changing the transmission oil.
> I did it 5 years ago. I probably did some net search , I don’t remember.
> What I remember is not taking the tranny of of the Snowblower.
> What I did then is fill the reservoir with oil and carefully take the drain plug off while the reservoir drop.
> When the reservoir wood be almost empty, I would put the plug back and refill the reservoir.
> That lasted on till the oil became clear (about a quart of oil).
> I have to say, it is a long prosess, but if you don’t enjoy putting the snowblower apart it may be wort the try.
> 
> I did it again.
> It have been another 5 years and I want to sale the 928, because I just got a new 1332....
> This time, I had forgot about the last time, and did not take the time to remember.
> I pul out the plug and empty the reservoir.
> It was slow in the begainning, because the reservoir cap was on.
> So after the tranny was empty, itry to refill it.
> I fill the reservoir and a fiew boble of air came out from the oil.
> Ooop, then I try to remember how I had did it 5 years before.
> But it was to late.
> I try moving and tilting the blower foward and backward.
> I lift the back end to a 30 degre angle, because of the gas tank and the batterie I would risk going higher.
> Then I look at the trans. tring to find a bleeding plug.
> I saw this screw...
> I ... My hand would’t fit in the space, so I ask ma 11 year old son to help.
> But when I saw the screw that came out of there I knew it was’nt a plug.
> I ask my son to put the screw back.
> I continued to refill the oil reservoir all day because it would drop when the oil would go down it the trans. slowly.
> At some point the oil stop to drop, so I start the moteur and try to move the blower.
> It would go foward. but not backward.
> I want out and give the 928 a ride, in case some air buble would came out and help get the reverse speed.
> 
> It never did. Remember that screw I took out to try and bleed.
> 
> At that point I took the blower apart and put the transmision on the banch.
> I place the drain plug at the highest point and took it swiffly off.
> Only oil came out. So I put the trans. on it side with the shifter down and look at the screw I had (my son) taken out.
> By the time, I had find out what it was, reading this post! Thanks a lot by the way.
> The screw actualy is a check valve made of a spring and a steel ball.
> Some how, I had lost the ball but not the spring. I put the screw back and check the valve on the other side of the trans.
> Helping myself with a magnet and a long tall screw, I took out the spring and yes, a 1/4 in steel ball.
> I put the steel ball in the first check valve and with the help off a electric drill try the trans. reverse.
> And it moved immediately. So I found a 1/4 in ball in a local bycycle shop (in my first net search).
> 
> I put it in the trans. and try it. It work!
> I then put the blower back in one piece.
> 
> So this is my five cent. I needed to share!:smile2::crying:
> 
> Forgive my writing, I try my best but I am writing oftem in english.


I'm curious to know why your are changing the transmission oil?

The Honda shop manual states that the oil should be good for the life of the machine. was your oil contaminated for some reason?

By the way , your english was fine. I could understand your post.


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## irayspot

Hello, I do not have the manual and since I want to sale the blower, I wanted to be sure everything was ok.
I did a fast research and did not see a message saying «*Do not change the oil «* but I saw tha the oil was black with carbon.
So, to have peace of mind I drop the oil in a pan.


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## Jake7662

I need some help figureing our where a seal goes on the gear box. I have a Honda 1132 track drive. I’m repacking the gear box. But can’t figure out where this dust seal goes on the drive axle. I have picture of it. I put the seal where I think it goes then the case doesn’t sit flush with where it mounts up to. Any help would be great!


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## JnC

The dust seal goes on the outside of the chassis on the shaft. If you are standing behind the blower than it would be on the right side.


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## Apple Guy

I just changed out my 2011 928 wheeled 2 stage Honda. The left hydro trans seal popped out, the one that is the stubby one with the bearing on it on the left side as you are holding the bars like you are blowing snow. The right one was pushed out a bit and I cleaning out the right hand side gear box grease and replaced it with some Shaeffer's moly synthetic grease I for got to replace the right side hydro seal. I cleaned the seal area and took a long wooden q-tip shaft with some 3M marine adhesive sealer, IE outboard/transom bolt sealer and pushed in the seal, cleaned the area with 91% alcohol and put the sealer in the small area around the outer seal making sure to not get any on the shaft or inside shaft hole seal area. So basically sealing in the seal as making it have to push past the sealer if it wanted to pop out some more. The left side I added black permatex to the out side of the seal to help hold it in when installing it. I now wished I thought of this before and used this extra sealer on the outside of the left seal as I did with the "Hail Mary save"of the right seal that started to push out. I let the unit sit for 24 hours before running it. I will keep the seal and extra one if needed for a later repair if this doesn't work. 

I did this by flipping up the machine on the bucket and small jack stands on their side to have the machine leaning forward a bit. I drained what was left in the hydro trans first thing before starting this repair. The color of the oil was like new brown car oil, and a good lot of black crud came out that was settled on the bottom from summer storage. If I could of ram the trans all that black crud would have been mixed in the oil...hence the load of black crud in the reservoir we hear people saying their older unit have, as I did. I used one of my gun barrel cleaning q-tips to clean the bottom of the trans floor through the drain hole and added a shot glass of oil and drained again. Black crud came out, but a lot less. 

I am not a fan of any oil Honda uses, and at work I deal with a boutique high end industrial oil company and do testing on all of our equipment that has high stress or is smart to keep track of with oil analysis as common sense standard practice. So I do know oils and mostly go with group 4 and group 5 oils as default. I did extensive research on finding out what Honda uses for its hydro oil and as always it is nothing special and nothing unique. Just Honda with it's usual "casting of FUD" (fear, uncertainty and doubt) to get you to use their crappy oil. We see this in their cheap crappy DW-1 ATF trans fluid. Nothing but cheap ATF and nothing special or unique. Even cheap and good Valvoline Max-Life synthetic ATF is superior to cheap Honda's DW-1. But I digress.

I found out many lawn care companies that use Honda commercial lawn tractors don't use Honda hydro trans fluid that is speced for them, the exact same that is speced for the 2 stage snowblower's hydro trans. A group of owners use Castrol oil synthetic 5w-30 car motor oil. One guy gave yearly updates on how the machines were running with this oil and all were running 3 to 5 years after seasonal commercial use. He got better change times and less crap in the oil using synthetic car oil. I used 75% 5W-30 Amsoil Signature Series and 25% 0W-40 Redline oil. A group 4 and group 5 oil. 

I refilled the trans by filling it to the fullest I could get the drain hole filled while flipped up. I hand tightened the drain plug in. At this point the machine trans was not fully level, the drain plug was a hair LOWER then the reservoir point that when the machine is down in it's normal running position the reservoir tube attachment point it the highest point of the trans point for fluid. While still in the exact position with the drain plug just a hair lower then the reservoir tube attachment point I slowly filled the unattached from holding bracket reservoir and let the oil drain down the tube into the trans and filled the reservoir half full of oil. I then took a pin punch and rotated wheel axle about ten times both ways (fun). I then spun the snow chute facing forward and set the end diverter to fully up and pulled the jacks from the bucket and let the machine roll forward to be held up by the chute. This lets the drain be higher then the reservoir tube attachment point. I then unscrewed the drain plug and burped just a bit of air out and then just oil came out. (rags tightly around drain area). Drain tightened, added more 5W-30 oil in the reservoir to get it to about the 1/3 level after attaching it back the the handlebars, added gas and it ran EXACTLY like a new Honda hydro without even a whisker hint it had hydro oil change to 5W-30 (which is the closest viscosity to Honda Hydro fluid). Ran it for 10 minutes around the driveway and yard, and now I am ready for Minnesota winters. I had planned to change out the original Honda trans fluid this year since the reservoir had a lot of black crud in it, but to my surprise I had a puddle of oil under the left axle from the seal push out.


.


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## groomerz

I agree with you . Many hydrostatic commercial mowers recommend synthetic 20w50 motor oil. I usually use valvoline synthetic 20/50 motorcycle oil as zinc is higher Obviously 20/50 is too thick for cold weather so 5/30 syn would be the choice, 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Apple Guy

I have cleared about 10 driveways since I changed my fluid to Redline and Amsoil 5w-30 and all is well. In fact the trans runs smother with less noise. All is well.




End of season update 4/20/19. No leaks and all is well the Redline/Amsoil car oil in the hydro trans, it is running great. Stored for the summer.




.


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## Toats MaGoats

Thanks so much for this. I would like to work on my HS55 TA to make it factory fresh. Love this forum.

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


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## Toats MaGoats

and I have to ask a silly quesion... why do we use gear OIL in the auger gear box yet for the tranny, a grease product (which as you see can get old and hard and lack lubrication, as opposed to an Oil fluid)?
why NOT put a fluid in with those gears?

EDIT: ok just figured it out. there are no seals on the axle as it goes through the gear box and the gasket is paper... hmmm seems this gearbox could have been designed a bit nicer.


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## orangputeh

Toats MaGoats said:


> Thanks so much for this. I would like to work on my HS55 TA to make it factory fresh. Love this forum.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk


are you going to open up that right side gearbox on your 55? I'd be interested in your experience. have done several of the later model 828-928-1132 but have never opened up a 50-55-80.

I have a 55 also and it runs smoothly but was thinking of installing a grease fitting in gearbox to pump in some grease. It is about 34 years old.


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## Toats MaGoats

Sorry for the post delay,
I never did get around to removing the gear box and removing the (i'm sure old and crusty) grease and install new stuff. I need to do more research and look at it in person to see what has to come off the HS55 even before I can get to the black box and its internals and what needs to be done then. I'd like to add grease to it tho... Sorry for the let down Orangeputeh


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## orangputeh

Toats MaGoats said:


> Sorry for the post delay,
> I never did get around to removing the gear box and removing the (i'm sure old and crusty) grease and install new stuff. I need to do more research and look at it in person to see what has to come off the HS55 even before I can get to the black box and its internals and what needs to be done then. I'd like to add grease to it tho... Sorry for the let down Orangeputeh


I spoke to the dealer about these old units. what usually happens if there is a problem is the shaft spines wear out and you have to replace but Honda does not sell anymore so you would have to cannabilize a good one from another machine.

I have serviced that gearbox on HS828's-928's and 1132's and it s a JOB .....J*O*B ....JOB. It takes about 5-6 hours if you are lucky and a lot more if there is rusted up parts and bearings. I don't know if I'll even try on an old 50 or 55. May try it on a HS80 since there are so many around my neck of the woods. 

BTW how could you let me down? you have a classic 55. ( almost as good as a Chevy )


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## Toats MaGoats

orangputeh said:


> BTW how could you let me down? you have a classic 55. ( almost as good as a Chevy )


yeah I read about the splines OR the tiny rod that goes through the shaft and sits in the gear... that breaks off too. UGH.

well I wil use as much as I can before something fatal happens.

as for the Chevy quote, my wife's Silverado is an older 2000 model and its BEAUTIFUL looking still and works just as well as the day it was sold. Maybe Chevy should make snowblowers...


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## eric801

Hi guys. obviously you know about honda snow blowers.
any one have a vid or comment on how change the transmission oil?

honda 1132hs


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## orangputeh

eric801 said:


> Hi guys. obviously you know about honda snow blowers.
> any one have a vid or comment on how change the transmission oil?
> 
> honda 1132hs


Honda says the tranny oil is good for life of machine. You should start a new thread for this subject.


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## Myth

Is it possible to service *right side transmission* without putting the snowblower on its bucket and do it in place?

Also, is there any reasons why the snowblower should not be put on it's bucket?

asking about HS 928 tracked version.


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## orangputeh

Myth said:


> Is it possible to service *right side transmission* without putting the snowblower on its bucket and do it in place?
> 
> Also, is there any reasons why the snowblower should not be put on it's bucket?
> 
> asking about HS 928 tracked version.


it's a lot easier to have room to do everything when on bucket. I take engine off which only takes about 15 minutes.


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## RC20

I worked as a mechanic on equipment including gear reducers as well as my own vehicles.

When you think about the reality, an auto could go 100k and never have its differential fluid changed (back in the day when we had differentials and not trans-axles). I serviced a few. Ugly looking fluid, yes, still running at much higher speeds and tighter tolerance, also yes.

Now shift to a snow blower. How many running hours in 20 years does it see? Subtract maybe 15% for when its stopped. Or miles covered. 

Honda will have taken a look at this and the life of the machine (20 years is fair but it may be even less) before it fails for other reasons, gets sold etc and ????????? 

So yes, if you take it apart to fix it, put in good grease and fluid, but you don't begin to need to change it very few years. Synthetic gear lube is cheap and its good for 20,000 hours in some listed applications. 

I have had my blower for 20 years and as I no longer work and have the time I am just considering draining the gas and oil, tilting it up and draining refilling auger gear box. Now I agree that a plug would be a low cost thing, but they didn't. Synthetic if I do as all my stuff has it just because I have it on the shelf. 



Quick Lube places make tons of money showing people how awful gear lubes look on white cloth and saying, you really need to change it. Color unless is ugly emulsified brown (water) has no bearing on if its doing its job).


No issue if someone want to go to the trouble, at 20 years it looks like my machine has 20 year life still in it. It does not hurt, its not a have to. Change the engine oil every 4 or 5 years (they don't get enough crud in them for any sooner). I worked on Deutz Diesel engines and those had no oil filter for many years (the air cooled may still not). Change the oil every 50 hours and I knew of one in hot and humid and only a cover outside that we estimated had over 20,000 hours and going strong, after they dug it out of the ash at Clarke Air Base (Philippines) . 





The Following is wrong. Lip seals require a bit of fluid to work right but not over the life of the machine loss. If it has lost the fluid its because the seals live in a nasty environment and or are low cost and failed. 
I have seen gear reducers as well as automotive with vastly more hours than a blower gets. Yes some fail, but as long as they are not failed they do not weep a steady amount of oil nor are intended to. 



> "While changing the seals I also came to the conclusion that the seals are meant to weep over time as there is no way they can keep all the fluid inside the transmission over the life of the snowblower. I'd also like to mention here that the transmission worked flawlessly before I decided to service everything."


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## Selms

JnC said:


> *Hydrostatic transmission*
> 
> The main reason I had the snow blower pulled apart is to rectify the leak that the hydrostatic transmission has developed. Fluid had accumulated all around the transmission case and over the years turned into gunk due to the dirt from the surroundings. I couldnt really pin point the exact location of the leak but it seems that the oil seals are weeping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Illustrations from the shop manual, courtesy *[email protected]*
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> 
> here is how the transmission looks right now, its been slightly cleaned to rid some of the gunk on it.
> 
> Notice the seals around the drive shaft, pulley shaft and the dust cap on the engage/disengage lever. (part #49, 51 and 50 in the illustration above), also notice the gaskets between the rear casing and distributor plate along with gasket between front casing and distributor plate (part # 3 and 14 in the illustration above).
> 
> engage/disengage lever
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> right side drive shaft seal
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> pulley side seal
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> this picture show the two gaskets sandwiched between the three pieces of transmission case (back, distributor and front)
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> 
> Hey, I'm new to this forum. I was wondering if you would have the page of the shop manual that shows the re-assembly of the hydrostatic transmission? P 14-7 I think.
> 
> Thanks!


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## Jibbers

Good morning,

Does anyone have the disassembly and reassembly for the Right Transmission? I thought it was going to be a piece of cake on my HS928, but ended up having to remove way more parts than I thought including the throttle/pulley springs, raising/lower plate etc.. It was clear to me that I was taking parts off in the wrong order, and I'm sure it's going to be even worse putting them back since some of the parts (like the springs) were under tension.

Thanks


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## orangputeh

as of 11/5/2020 bikebandit.com has the best price for the drive axle with pin and the gear set for the 828-928 for $103 . compared to boats.net at $144 and Honda at $150. I ordered several sets and received them. this can change any day.

just info.


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## Lobbyu

Great instructions for repairing/replacing the R-side transmission gears and casing. Thanks! Only question is when i bolt the casing back in to the black panel, how certain can i be that the gears are in sinc and function. Everything seems to turn ok when i rotate the gear axle, but i hear a slight rubbing noise from the small gear. In


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## Lobbyu

JnC said:


> *Servicing the right and hydrostatic transmission (Pictures re-uploaded 10/28/18)*
> 
> *EDIT (10/29/2018): All the pictures were recovered and re-uploaded onto SBF site, enjoy.*
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is for general discussion concerning the right transmission and the hydrostatic transmission found on most track/wheel assisted HS series snow blowers. Someone correct me if I am wrong but the right transmission might only be for the track assisted machines.
> 
> Current condition of the right/final gear transmission. While overhauling the blower I noticed the rubber seal, part#15 in the illustration below, had perished. I suspected it let dirt in the casing, which was later affirmed when I opened the case.
> 
> 
> Notice the contaminated grease.
> Bearings are fine.
> -* Can anyone point out what type of grease Honda has used in the gear case?*
> 
> 
> I intend on replacing the grease.
> Change part #14
> Install new gasket, part #2.


Good overview, but did i miss the pic showing the part #4 (bush countershaft) indicated on the Honda diagram?


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## Lobbyu

orangputeh said:


> as of 11/5/2020 bikebandit.com has the best price for the drive axle with pin and the gear set for the 828-928 for $103 . compared to boats.net at $144 and Honda at $150. I ordered several sets and received them. this can change any day.
> 
> just info.


Orangputeh,
Thanks millions for the step x


JnC said:


> *Gearcase rebuild*
> 
> The gear case and all its components were cleaned thoroughly and all the old contaminated grease was replaced with new grease along new dust seal.
> 
> All parts cleaned and ready to go
> 
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> 
> bearings installed
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> all components put back together, the shop manual indicates where to apply new grease, which is pretty much everywhere.
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> back side
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> 
> outside, notice the new seal, I am still not sold on the idea of this seal keeping all the elements out as it doesnt snap into anything, more of a floating seal.


Thanks for the descriptive Pics on the gearcase rebuild for my HS928. However, i noticed from the Honda gear case diagram that you didn't show part #4 for installation. Did i miss something.
Lobbyu


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## Lobbyu

JnC said:


> *Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 4 of 4*
> 
> install the small gear onto the middle shaft
> 
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> 
> install the small washer onto the gear
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> 
> next, install the third gear, this one goes around the input shaft coming from the HST transmission, "Down" indication shows the side facing towards the HST shaft.
> 
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> at this point I applied some RTV to the casing and lathered on some more grease
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> then goes on the gasket
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> 
> ease on the cover/side chassis piece to the gear case, make sure everything sits in place, especially the plastic gear stay piece that you put on the chassis piece in the beginning. The grease would hold it in place when you flip the chassis piece over.
> 
> There are 6 nuts and bolts that hold everything in place, two of them have a built in collar.
> 
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> 
> line up all the holes
> 
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> the nuts that go on the other side sit in place within the casing, you just have to hold them in the beginning before the bolt catches them
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> torque everything to 7.2lbs and you are done.
> 
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> 
> Non of the bearings are pressed in or anything, if a bearing is sticking and is not coming off then its cause of corrosion or oxidation. To get them off of the shaft I use a bearing puller, make sure to sand the rest of the shaft before trying the bearing puller as doing so will help take it off of the shaft easily.
> 
> For the bearings inside the gear case, I heat up the area around the bearing, use some Kroil and most of the time they pop right out.


GREAT OVERVIEW, for overhauling the gear casing, but somehow i missed the installation of the #4 part as shown in the Honda diagram (bush countershaft). Is it not necessary? Thanks
Lobbyu


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## orangputeh

you mean the middle countershaft and gear? better inspect that counter shaft splines well. I usually replace for 17 bucks. oh, and make sure youput that little gear on in the right direction. same with the other little gear. I think JnC posted that.

there is a washer that goes between the big gear and bearing. there is also a washer that goes over countershaft, these washers are SUPER DUPER importamando if you know what I mean.

I havent done it yet ( knock on wood ) but have known people have left out a washer. as you already know how much work this is I wouldnt want to redo it. Thats why I do what @JnC suggested and put the gearbox/axle together with that side of engine bed removed from machine. you can test it easier ( it is hard to turn axle ) but you will notice anything wrong like clicking or too much play etc. . There is a little play.

anyway it is easier to take gearbox cover off the engine bed side and redo or inspect if you have to. I just put a little grease all around so I can test and less messy if i have to reopen. I install a grease fitting as per donyboy73 on you tube and pump in a ton of grease when everything is back together and working right.

not sure if this is a good method but it has worked for me in about 8-10 of these rebuilds/services.


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## tabora

Besides the steering, this topic is the reason I'm very glad I skipped from the friction drive era right to the HydroGear SST era... So far.


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## Lobbyu

orangputeh said:


> you mean the middle countershaft and gear? better inspect that counter shaft splines well. I usually replace for 17 bucks. oh, and make sure youput that little gear on in the right direction. same with the other little gear. I think JnC posted that.
> 
> there is a washer that goes between the big gear and bearing. there is also a washer that goes over countershaft, these washers are SUPER DUPER importamando if you know what I mean.
> 
> I havent done it yet ( knock on wood ) but have known people have left out a washer. as you already know how much work this is I wouldnt want to redo it. Thats why I do what @JnC suggested and put the gearbox/axle together with that side of engine bed removed from machine. you can test it easier ( it is hard to turn axle ) but you will notice anything wrong like clicking or too much play etc. . There is a little play.
> 
> anyway it is easier to take gearbox cover off the engine bed side and redo or inspect if you have to. I just put a little grease all around so I can test and less messy if i have to reopen. I install a grease fitting as per donyboy73 on you tube and pump in a ton of grease when everything is back together and working right.
> 
> not sure if this is a good method but it has worked for me in about 8-10 of these rebuilds/services.


I'm referring to the bush (#4 on R Trans parts diagram) that fits over the countershaft. When you bolt the gear case back on to the R side panel, there is a small slot the bush fits in to.


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## orangputeh

Lobbyu said:


> I'm referring to the bush (#4 on R Trans parts diagram) that fits over the countershaft. When you bolt the gear case back on to the R side panel, there is a small slot the bush fits in to.


i always press a new one in


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## Lobbyu

orangputeh said:


> i always press a new one in


Press the #4 bush in to the slot? Makes sense. Not sure what purpose it serves but i'll just follow the instructions. Thanks for quick reply.


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## JnC

When I did that unit I didnt realize that #4 was a serviceable item, since that I have seen many with that bush being worn to a point where the counter shaft would start wearing the inside of the opening. 

So yes, you are right, please do inspect that bush and change it. 


If I come across a unit where the hole has been worn I now carve out the inside of the opening and put a needle bearing in there, more permanent solution to the issue.


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## Lobbyu




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## Lobbyu

This is a snapshot of my side cover plate showing the notch where the new bush (#4) should go. I think you're correct that over time (16 yrs) the countershaft has worn the notch. Should the new bushing fit snugly in the hole? What is a needle bearing? I'm going to send another Pic of my newly installed gear caseing, ready to be bolted on to the cover plate, IF, i can get this countershaft/bush resolved


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## Lobbyu

Lobbyu said:


> This is a snapshot of my side cover plate showing the notch where the new bush (#4) should go. I think you're correct that over time (16 yrs) the countershaft has worn the notch. Should the new bushing fit snugly in the hole? What is a needle bearing? I'm going to send another Pic of my newly installed gear caseing, ready to be bolted on to the cover plate, IF, i can get this countershaft/bush resolved


 new gears, countershaft and bearings. Enough grease packed un there?


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## JnC

That bush should slide in with ease, its not press fitted. 

The needle bearing is for situations where the hole has been worn out, not necessary in your case if the bush fits in fine. 

Another good measure to do is applying some permatex RTV around the opening of the input shaft thats going into the gear case and on the driveshaft itself once the machine is put together as you wont be able to slide in the input shaft from the HST if you apply the RTV beforehand. This will help against water/dirt getting into the gearcase. 

The sealant is not there for any sort of structural support but more so for creating a seal against water etc.


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## Lobbyu

Thanks JnC. As one who admittedly isn't, at all, experienced in these kind of technical overhauls, you and orangputeh have been very informative and helpful. So, just to clear my fuzzy mind, once i carefully ream the notch enough to easily insert the Bushing, the end of the countershaft should slide in comfortably? About your tip on permatex RTV- applying it around the opening of the input shaft thats going into the gearcase? Is that where i now have all the grease in the case?. Not sure the exact location you refer to, as well as the driveshaft itself. Sorry to be so anal about this, but I want to get this right before u button it up. Thanks!


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## orangputeh

Lobbyu said:


> Thanks JnC. As one who admittedly isn't, at all, experienced in these kind of technical overhauls, you and orangputeh have been very informative and helpful. So, just to clear my fuzzy mind, once i carefully ream the notch enough to easily insert the Bushing, the end of the countershaft should slide in comfortably? About your tip on permatex RTV- applying it around the opening of the input shaft thats going into the gearcase? Is that where i now have all the grease in the case?. Not sure the exact location you refer to, as well as the driveshaft itself. Sorry to be so anal about this, but I want to get this right before u button it up. Thanks!


I dont see a reason to ream the notch to get it to fit. It does go in a certain way. It should fit in very tightly. I just clean very thoroughly , line it up, start in straight and then cover up with a thin piece of wood or maybe a socket that matches and LIGHTLY tap in.


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## Lobbyu

orangputeh said:


> I dont see a reason to ream the notch to get it to fit. It does go in a certain way. It should fit in very tightly. I just clean very thoroughly , line it up, start in straight and then cover up with a thin piece of wood or maybe a socket that matches and LIGHTLY tap in.


Good advice. Thanks


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## Lobbyu

Lobbyu said:


> Good advice. Thanks





JnC said:


> That bush should slide in with ease, its not press fitted.
> 
> The needle bearing is for situations where the hole has been worn out, not necessary in your case if the bush fits in fine.
> 
> Another good measure to do is applying some permatex RTV around the opening of the input shaft thats going into the gear case and on the driveshaft itself once the machine is put together as you wont be able to slide in the input shaft from the HST if you apply the RTV beforehand. This will help against water/dirt getting into the gearcase.
> 
> The sealant is not there for any sort of structural support but more so for creating a seal against water etc.


 Does this Pic of Permatex RTV around the shaft opening depict your suggestion? With the exceptional step by step instruction on rebuilding the R side gear case, i think i'm ready to bolt it to the side panel. Do you have further instructions on reattachment to the blower? Reattaching the 2 springs keep me up at night thinking.


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## JnC

Lobbyu said:


> Thanks JnC. As one who admittedly isn't, at all, experienced in these kind of technical overhauls, you and orangputeh have been very informative and helpful. So, just to clear my fuzzy mind, once i carefully ream the notch enough to easily insert the Bushing, the end of the countershaft should slide in comfortably? About your tip on permatex RTV- applying it around the opening of the input shaft thats going into the gearcase? Is that where i now have all the grease in the case?. Not sure the exact location you refer to, as well as the driveshaft itself. Sorry to be so anal about this, but I want to get this right before u button it up. Thanks!


You dont need to ream out the hole if you are using stock bushing.

The side of the casing you just showed with the RTV should have a rubber collar installed on it as well, unless you hadnt installed it before taking the picture.

I was talking about applying the rtv around the cavity thats between the gear case and the output and the HST input shafts. HST input shaft is not shown here as it wasnt put back yet. The idea is to cover that opening up, the RTV will stick to the gear case and the shafts, once you use the machine the RTV will split yet remain applied to the gear case and the shaft. Obviously it wont be a tight seal any more as its torn but it'd be enough to keep a decent amount of moisture/dirt from getting in the gear case.


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## Lobbyu

JnC said:


> *Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 4 of 4*
> 
> install the small gear onto the middle shaft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> install the small washer onto the gear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> next, install the third gear, this one goes around the input shaft coming from the HST transmission, "Down" indication shows the side facing towards the HST shaft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at this point I applied some RTV to the casing and lathered on some more grease
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then goes on the gasket
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ease on the cover/side chassis piece to the gear case, make sure everything sits in place, especially the plastic gear stay piece that you put on the chassis piece in the beginning. The grease would hold it in place when you flip the chassis piece over.
> 
> There are 6 nuts and bolts that hold everything in place, two of them have a built in collar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> line up all the holes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the nuts that go on the other side sit in place within the casing, you just have to hold them in the beginning before the bolt catches them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> torque everything to 7.2lbs and you are done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Non of the bearings are pressed in or anything, if a bearing is sticking and is not coming off then its cause of corrosion or oxidation. To get them off of the shaft I use a bearing puller, make sure to sand the rest of the shaft before trying the bearing puller as doing so will help take it off of the shaft easily.
> 
> For the bearings inside the gear case, I heat up the area around the bearing, use some Kroil and most of the time they pop right out.


Now that you've completed the first chapter of rebuilding the R-side transmission gear case we are all anxiously awaiting the second chapter- 'Reassembling the gear case to the HST and track drive". Sure to be a best seller in the world of Honda HS928 snowblowers. You, Orangputeh, Robert the Oracle and the other Pros, with your demonstrated expertise, are irreplaceable to this forum. Thanks much


JnC said:


> You dont need to ream out the hole if you are using stock bushing.
> 
> The side of the casing you just showed with the RTV should have a rubber collar installed on it as well, unless you hadnt installed it before taking the picture.
> 
> I was talking about applying the rtv around the cavity thats between the gear case and the output and the HST input shafts. HST input shaft is not shown here as it wasnt put back yet. The idea is to cover that opening up, the RTV will stick to the gear case and the shafts, once you use the machine the RTV will split yet remain applied to the gear case and the shaft. Obviously it wont be a tight seal any more as its torn but it'd be enough to keep a decent amount of moisture/dirt from getting in the gear case.
> 
> 
> View attachment 170235


Rubber collar? I don't have that part in the kit I received for the R-side transmission overhaul. My local Honda dealer said the numbered part doesn't show up on the Honda parts diagram. It does make sense though. I think i get what you mean regarding application of the RTV. The HST is still on the machine, so when I install the gear case into the HST spindle, i can apply the RTV between the cavity? Sorry I'm so dense about getting this.


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## Lobbyu

Lobbyu said:


> Now that you've completed the first chapter of rebuilding the R-side transmission gear case we are all anxiously awaiting the second chapter- 'Reassembling the gear case to the HST and track drive". Sure to be a best seller in the world of Honda HS928 snowblowers. You, Orangputeh, Robert the Oracle and the other Pros, with your demonstrated expertise, are irreplaceable to this forum. Thanks much
> 
> Rubber collar? I don't have that part in the kit I received for the R-side transmission overhaul. My local Honda dealer said the numbered part doesn't show up on the Honda parts diagram. It does make sense though. I think i get what you mean regarding application of the RTV. The HST is still on the machine, so when I install the gear case into the HST spindle, i can apply the RTV between the cavity? Sorry I'm so dense about getting this.


 My Bad JnC!! Nice catch on the missing rubber dust cover. ( See Pic) I located the part and installed it. I also scrapped off the excess and needless RTV. Ok?


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## orangputeh

you could also pump in so much dam grease that water can not enter. what JnC suggested is good. i havent tried that yet. but it makes sense. every gear box i open has water evidence most times.


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## Lobbyu

orangputeh said:


> you could also pump in so much dam grease that water can not enter. what JnC suggested is good. i havent tried that yet. but it makes sense. every gear box i open has water evidence most times.


Ok. As you will note by the most recent Pic of my HST i'm ready to mount the gear casing into the spindle and need to connect the two springs to the mounting brackets attached to the gear case. Looks to be a PITA to hook them up. Any experienced tips? Also, should i lather some grease on the spindle before inserting it?


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## orangputeh

Lobbyu said:


> View attachment 170247
> 
> 
> Ok. As you will note by the most recent Pic of my HST i'm ready to mount the gear casing into the spindle and need to connect the two springs to the mounting brackets attached to the gear case. Looks to be a PITA to hook them up. Any experienced tips? Also, should i lather some grease on the spindle before inserting it?


i use a pick to reattach springs.


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## tabora

orangputeh said:


> i use a pick to reattach springs.


I do, too, now. I bought a little pick set at Harbor Freight for about $0.99 on sale. They have bigger/better sets, too. Before that, I used crochet hooks in a ViceGrip.








Mini Pick and Hook Set


Amazing deals on this 4Pc Mini Pick & Hook Set at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




www.harborfreight.com












Pick and Hook Set, 7 Piece


Amazing deals on this Deluxe Pick & Hook 7Pc at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




www.harborfreight.com


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## JnC

Needle nose vise grips FTW.


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## Lobbyu

JnC said:


> Needle nose vise grips FTW.


Sorry, been a bit preoccupied with this virus kick. Back at it. Going to reattach springs to the gear case bracket, but bit nervous about which spring to which hole in bracket.


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## orangputeh

Lobbyu said:


> Sorry, been a bit preoccupied with this virus kick. Back at it. Going to reattach springs to the gear case bracket, but bit nervous about which spring to which hole in bracket.


this kind of repair really required having the shop manual. $47.


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## JnC

Lobbyu said:


> Sorry, been a bit preoccupied with this virus kick. Back at it. Going to reattach springs to the gear case bracket, but bit nervous about which spring to which hole in bracket.



Here you go, this should help.


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## Lobbyu

Perfect! Just the diagram layout i needed. Thanks


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## Lobbyu

JnC said:


> *Servicing the right and hydrostatic transmission (Pictures re-uploaded 10/28/18)*
> 
> *EDIT (10/29/2018): All the pictures were recovered and re-uploaded onto SBF site, enjoy.*
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is for general discussion concerning the right transmission and the hydrostatic transmission found on most track/wheel assisted HS series snow blowers. Someone correct me if I am wrong but the right transmission might only be for the track assisted machines.
> 
> Current condition of the right/final gear transmission. While overhauling the blower I noticed the rubber seal, part#15 in the illustration below, had perished. I suspected it let dirt in the casing, which was later affirmed when I opened the case.
> 
> 
> Notice the contaminated grease.
> Bearings are fine.
> -* Can anyone point out what type of grease Honda has used in the gear case?*
> 
> 
> I intend on replacing the grease.
> Change part #14
> Install new gasket, part #2.





JnC said:


> *Servicing the right and hydrostatic transmission (Pictures re-uploaded 10/28/18)*
> 
> *EDIT (10/29/2018): All the pictures were recovered and re-uploaded onto SBF site, enjoy.*
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is for general discussion concerning the right transmission and the hydrostatic transmission found on most track/wheel assisted HS series snow blowers. Someone correct me if I am wrong but the right transmission might only be for the track assisted machines.
> 
> Current condition of the right/final gear transmission. While overhauling the blower I noticed the rubber seal, part#15 in the illustration below, had perished. I suspected it let dirt in the casing, which was later affirmed when I opened the case.
> 
> 
> Notice the contaminated grease.
> Bearings are fine.
> -* Can anyone point out what type of grease Honda has used in the gear case?*
> 
> 
> I intend on replacing the grease.
> Change part #14
> Install new gasket, part #2.


Part # 15, the so called rubber seal seems worthless. It won't stay tight to the axle or bearing and tends to float. Honda should think that through a bit more. Wonder if the rubber seal could be carefully glued with lock tite around the metal.


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## tabora

Lobbyu said:


> Part # 15, the so called rubber seal seems worthless. It won't stay tight to the axle or bearing and tends to float. Honda should think that through a bit more. Wonder if the rubber seal could be carefully glued with lock tite around the metal.


They did rethink it... That's why the HSS series has no right-side transmission.


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## Lobbyu

tabora said:


> They did rethink it... That's why the HSS series has no right-side transmission.


I suppose we all learn from our mistakes. Honda is no exception. Thanks


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## JnC

They got rid of one set of issues and took on another set lol. I much rather work on the right gearbox all day than work on any ill fated product made by Hydro-Gear. 


The seal is suppose to latch onto the very small collar of the side chassis plate. Looking at the picture you posted it seems like your side case opening is oblong due to wear inside the gear case, namely the middle bush, may be the bearings etc.

If I run into that situation I tend to knock the hole back into shape if I could, use a new seal, push is all the way down where its suppose to and fill the cavity and all around it with high strength adhesive, either that or you change the right chassis plate.


----------



## orangputeh

JnC said:


> They got rid of one set of issues and took on another set lol. I much rather work on the right gearbox all day than work on any ill fated product made by Hydro-Gear.
> 
> 
> The seal is suppose to latch onto the very small collar of the side chassis plate. Looking at the picture you posted it seems like your side case opening is oblong due to wear inside the gear case, namely the middle bush, may be the bearings etc.
> 
> If I run into that situation I tend to knock the hole back into shape if I could, use a new seal, push is all the way down where its suppose to and fill the cavity and all around it with high strength adhesive, either that or you change the right chassis plate.


I see this problem a lot. very few Honda I work on has that "dust seal " attached.I clean the area well and then kinda punch it on. also have seen the oblong hole caused by failed bushing. have replaced the side in that case.

That seal is supposed to keep out water. another way to keep out water is to pump in so much grease that water can not get in.


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## PaulYardy

Found my parts Manual


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## snowhog

Apple Guy said:


> I just changed out my 2011 928 wheeled 2 stage Honda. The left hydro trans seal popped out, the one that is the stubby one with the bearing on it on the left side as you are holding the bars like you are blowing snow. The right one was pushed out a bit and I cleaning out the right hand side gear box grease and replaced it with some Shaeffer's moly synthetic grease I for got to replace the right side hydro seal. I cleaned the seal area and took a long wooden q-tip shaft with some 3M marine adhesive sealer, IE outboard/transom bolt sealer and pushed in the seal, cleaned the area with 91% alcohol and put the sealer in the small area around the outer seal making sure to not get any on the shaft or inside shaft hole seal area. So basically sealing in the seal as making it have to push past the sealer if it wanted to pop out some more. The left side I added black permatex to the out side of the seal to help hold it in when installing it. I now wished I thought of this before and used this extra sealer on the outside of the left seal as I did with the "Hail Mary save"of the right seal that started to push out. I let the unit sit for 24 hours before running it. I will keep the seal and extra one if needed for a later repair if this doesn't work.
> 
> I did this by flipping up the machine on the bucket and small jack stands on their side to have the machine leaning forward a bit. I drained what was left in the hydro trans first thing before starting this repair. The color of the oil was like new brown car oil, and a good lot of black crud came out that was settled on the bottom from summer storage. If I could of ram the trans all that black crud would have been mixed in the oil...hence the load of black crud in the reservoir we hear people saying their older unit have, as I did. I used one of my gun barrel cleaning q-tips to clean the bottom of the trans floor through the drain hole and added a shot glass of oil and drained again. Black crud came out, but a lot less.
> 
> I am not a fan of any oil Honda uses, and at work I deal with a boutique high end industrial oil company and do testing on all of our equipment that has high stress or is smart to keep track of with oil analysis as common sense standard practice. So I do know oils and mostly go with group 4 and group 5 oils as default. I did extensive research on finding out what Honda uses for its hydro oil and as always it is nothing special and nothing unique. Just Honda with it's usual "casting of FUD" (fear, uncertainty and doubt) to get you to use their crappy oil. We see this in their cheap crappy DW-1 ATF trans fluid. Nothing but cheap ATF and nothing special or unique. Even cheap and good Valvoline Max-Life synthetic ATF is superior to cheap Honda's DW-1. But I digress.
> 
> I found out many lawn care companies that use Honda commercial lawn tractors don't use Honda hydro trans fluid that is speced for them, the exact same that is speced for the 2 stage snowblower's hydro trans. A group of owners use Castrol oil synthetic 5w-30 car motor oil. One guy gave yearly updates on how the machines were running with this oil and all were running 3 to 5 years after seasonal commercial use. He got better change times and less crap in the oil using synthetic car oil. I used 75% 5W-30 Amsoil Signature Series and 25% 0W-40 Redline oil. A group 4 and group 5 oil.
> 
> I refilled the trans by filling it to the fullest I could get the drain hole filled while flipped up. I hand tightened the drain plug in. At this point the machine trans was not fully level, the drain plug was a hair LOWER then the reservoir point that when the machine is down in it's normal running position the reservoir tube attachment point it the highest point of the trans point for fluid. While still in the exact position with the drain plug just a hair lower then the reservoir tube attachment point I slowly filled the unattached from holding bracket reservoir and let the oil drain down the tube into the trans and filled the reservoir half full of oil. I then took a pin punch and rotated wheel axle about ten times both ways (fun). I then spun the snow chute facing forward and set the end diverter to fully up and pulled the jacks from the bucket and let the machine roll forward to be held up by the chute. This lets the drain be higher then the reservoir tube attachment point. I then unscrewed the drain plug and burped just a bit of air out and then just oil came out. (rags tightly around drain area). Drain tightened, added more 5W-30 oil in the reservoir to get it to about the 1/3 level after attaching it back the the handlebars, added gas and it ran EXACTLY like a new Honda hydro without even a whisker hint it had hydro oil change to 5W-30 (which is the closest viscosity to Honda Hydro fluid). Ran it for 10 minutes around the driveway and yard, and now I am ready for Minnesota winters. I had planned to change out the original Honda trans fluid this year since the reservoir had a lot of black crud in it, but to my surprise I had a puddle of oil under the left axle from the seal push out.
> 
> 
> .


Hopefully, the original poster is still on the forum.

I also have a HS928 (TAS) that experienced the left side transmission seal leakage due to the seal slightly pushing out. The trans did not lose enough fluid to require bleeding. I caught it early,pushed it back in and backed it up with a rubber washer/spacer from an automotive shock absorber. It provides a solid space that prevents the trans seal from pushing out again in order to get me through the winter. it is not a tight fit so does not rub on the honda seal. It's just wide enough to stop the seal from pushing out enough to leak. It's worked for 2 storms now without leakage. I just wanted to confirm that you did not change the leaking seal, just pushed it back in and used the adhesive and cleaning regimen? Trying not to have to do a complete trans breakdown if your method worked.. Thanks in advance for any comments you may have.


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## JnC

^^ You should be fine. Its a common issue and it seems like you caught it in time. There is enough HST fluid in the reservoir and the pipe leading to the HST to allow at least a few ounces to leak out without introducing any air in to the actual transmission. If the spacer retains the seal inside the housing and prevents it from coming out again then the seal should keep doing what its suppose to do i.e. keep the fluid inside the transmission. Just make sure to keep an eye on the HST fluid level in the reservoir.


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## E350

It is likely posted in the previous six pages, but I am going to just stick this right here and ask you guys, once I install my 6mmx1.00 zerk fitting as Donny suggests, WHAT LOW TEMPERATURE SYNTHETIC BEARING GREASE SHOULD I USE?


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## orangputeh

There is a pretty good video just posted on You-tube about this whole procedure but I don't know how to
post link to it. the poster was Exit 18 something.

Should really help here. JnC's tutorial is excellent but I learn easier with videos.


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## E350

Please don't be offended by the all caps:

WHAT LOW TEMPERATURE SYNTHETIC BEARING GREASE SHOULD I USE?


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## ST1100A

E350 said:


> Please don't be offended by the all caps:
> 
> WHAT LOW TEMPERATURE SYNTHETIC BEARING GREASE SHOULD I USE?


Amsoil 'Arctic Grease' works very well.


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## E350

Ordered. Thank you!





Amazon.com: Amsoil Arctic Synthetic Grease NLGI#1 (15 oz): Automotive


Buy Amsoil Arctic Synthetic Grease NLGI#1 (15 oz): Snowmobiling - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## mikeinri

orangputeh said:


> There is a pretty good video just posted on You-tube about this whole procedure but I don't know how to
> post link to it. the poster was Exit 18 something.
> 
> Should really help here. JnC's tutorial is excellent but I learn easier with videos.


This one?






[BTW, How I post video links: In YouTube, click the "Share" button / arrow icon. Then click "Copy Link" and it goes to your clipboard. Then paste that into your post here, and the website software works its magic...]

Mike


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## orangputeh

@JnC have you done this with a wheeled unit?anything different I should know? 
I just got a wheeled unit in that is clicking so it needs the RST rebuilt. assuming pretty much the same other than the axle being longer.


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## JnC

Yes, this diagram thats on most parts website and I think also in the service manual is wrong. Part # 12 does not go in where this diagram shows it to go, it goes after the main gear (#7). 

Diagram shows the orientation to be bearing (16) then collar (12) then washer (9) then the gear (7) on top of the pin in the driveshaft then wahser (9) then collar/spacer/bushing (4).

Its actually suppose to be 16, 9, 7 on the UNDERSIDE of the pin then collar (12) then bush (4). I'll see if I have a wheel box rebuild coming soon to show in pictures how to set up the box as explaining it like this may not be as clear.


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## orangputeh

JnC said:


> Yes, this diagram thats on most parts website and I think also in the service manual is wrong. Part # 12 does not go in where this diagram shows it to go, it goes after the main gear (#7).
> 
> Diagram shows the orientation to be bearing (16) then collar (12) then washer (9) then the gear (7) on top of the pin in the driveshaft then wahser (9) then collar/spacer/bushing (4).
> 
> Its actually suppose to be 16, 9, 7 on the UNDERSIDE of the pin then collar (12) then bush (4). I'll see if I have a wheel box rebuild coming soon to show in pictures how to set up the box as explaining it like this may not be as clear.
> 
> View attachment 176301


wow ...thanks. I have followed the diagrams with success for the tracked units. was inspected my unit yesterday and it appears the bearing blew where the hydro shaft goes into case. lots of wobble there.

I think you explained it well. seems like a simpler design compared to tracked gearbox. and hopefully an easier job minus tracks and side plates before you get to engine bed.


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## orangputeh

@JnC it only took about 10 minutes to get the side bed cover off. ...nice.

#15 bearing is completely gone. my question is #6 11T gear wont come off so I can get case off axle. some kind
of trick on this? is it held on by click that is not in diagram. will have to clean grease away toget better look.
there is some kind of cap keeping that 11t gear on. it's not even in the diagram.


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## JnC

Its not a press fit or anything, gear is probably corroded on the input shaft, try some penetrant and a bearing puller, you may need to use some heat as well.


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## orangputeh

JnC said:


> Its not a press fit or anything, gear is probably corroded on the input shaft, try some penetrant and a bearing puller, you may need to use some heat as well.


okay never have seen anything like this. the gear is free on splines.seems like some kind of cap. the pic is not too clear. and the upshot is i cant find this parts anywhere in diagrams.

not sure if this box has ever been opened before. if i get cap off taking it to dealer and showing to head mechanic there who has forgotten more about Hondas than I will ever know.


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## orangputeh

orangputeh said:


> okay never have seen anything like this. the gear is free on splines.seems like some kind of cap. the pic is not too clear. and the upshot is i cant find this parts anywhere in diagrams.
> 
> not sure if this box has ever been opened before. if i get cap off taking it to dealer and showing to head mechanic there who has forgotten more about Hondas than I will ever know.


It may be part of the shaft and just different from tracked model. the gear is free on splines and moves forward and back but stops at that end piece. That piece has some tiny ridges on inside if you look at pic. afraid to try puller and doing damage that is a show stopper.


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## JnC

If you look at the diagram you can see that the gear number 6 is a stand alone part. There is a spacer/washer number 10 and a retaining cap that goes into the side plate #3, same idea as you find in the tracked units, just smaller in size. The splines that are clean and letting the gear move about are usually the splines that are inside the gear. Even within the gear the contact part is only 80% of the inside of the gear as there is 20% part of the gear thats left unsplined (if thats a word). 

The part that sits inside the cap (#3) usually corrodes as its not protected by anything so when water/moisture gets in there it rots it up pretty good and thats why the gear is not coming off. If you are afraid to damage it then use a wire brush to clean it up real good and wiggle the gear off of it, trust me you'll be fine. Even if you damage that part of the input shaft it wont hurt as that art does not engage into the splines, that later bit does though.


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## orangputeh

JnC said:


> View attachment 176367
> 
> 
> If you look at the diagram you can see that the gear number 6 is a stand alone part. There is a spacer/washer number 10 and a retaining cap that goes into the side plate #3, same idea as you find in the tracked units, just smaller in size. The splines that are clean and letting the gear move about are usually the splines that are inside the gear. Even within the gear the contact part is only 80% of the inside of the gear as there is 20% part of the gear thats left unsplined (if thats a word).
> 
> The part that sits inside the cap (#3) usually corrodes as its not protected by anything so when water/moisture gets in there it rots it up pretty good and thats why the gear is not coming off. If you are afraid to damage it then use a wire brush to clean it up real good and wiggle the gear off of it, trust me you'll be fine. Even if you damage that part of the input shaft it wont hurt as that art does not engage into the splines, that later bit does though.


Thanks. This worked. Cleaning up end and attaching a puller to pull gear off. Did not take much. Was not familiar with a wheeled unit hydro shaft as it is different from tracked. So all good. Wish the tracked gearboxes were as simple as this.

probably did the whole job in less than an hour to half and a half total work time.


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## orangputeh

@JnC came across a first today.no drive situation. checked all the usual suspects but noticed the hydro shaft worked intermittantly with no track drive.
Suspected it was being held up by gearbox.

Removed gearbox and everything is okay , axle pin , gears , bushings , etc. ( grease is dry and cakey of course ) 

The hydro shaft when i put my hand on it and moving the drive pulley has little resistance. It will move but when I hold it , it won't . I can feel clicking on the inside.
I have never rebuilt one of these.so not sure what could be wrong.

Anyway , I have a couple of know good spare hydros so am just gonna switch out and service the right side tranny with a new drive axle/pin, main gear , etc , countershaft also.
Just to be on the safe side. It's a 928 with a 1130000 serial number so suspecting at least 15 years old or older.

I'm gonna sell this when done but want the owner to have basically a new RST.


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## azulrios

JnC said:


> *Putting the right transmission together (Track version) Post 1 of 4*
> 
> Here is a comprehensive guide on how to put together the right transmission for the Track assisted models.
> 
> *Note: Wheeled version right transmission has one less gear and the shaft runs through the middle gear right than the one shown on the outside of the three below.*
> 
> Parts diagram
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is what the current gear case/transmission looked like when I opened it first, water gets in through the shaft opening over the years and spoils the OEM grease.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All parts cleaned up, got some new bearings as well as the old ones were shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> got some RTV silicone, cleaned up gear casing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really wanted to install a grease fitting just in case I ever needed to throw some fresh grease in the casing, couldnt do it last time when I serviced the HS924. Checked the HS924 to see where it'd be easy to access and service the casing once everything is put back together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> marked the spot on the HS1132 casing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new fitting installed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> view from within the casing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lather some grease in the hole and install the plastic gear stay like so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> install gear stay washer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed, I wish this information was available when I first did the flush on my first Honda, I had to gather most of it from research and through the resident Honda oracle, Robert .
> 
> By the way the cheapest place to buy Honda HST is Partspack
> 
> StackPath
> 
> To do a complete flush/bleed you'd need to get at least three of the above 12 oz bottles. I wish honda still made the HST fluid quarts, it doesnt hurt to buy 2~3 bottles but I had to purchase 13 bottles over the summer to do a complete flush/bleed on my Honda H3013 lawn mower :facepalm_zpsdj194qh.


Great write-up. Out of curiosity, I do not have the gear box out so was wondering, if I can tilt my HSS928A on its nose (auger end) to drill & insert the zerk fitting? If so, I will put grease on the drill bit and tap when preparing for the installation.

Thanks


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## Toon

azulrios said:


> Great write-up. Out of curiosity, I do not have the gear box out so was wondering, if I can tilt my HSS928A on its nose (auger end) to drill & insert the zerk fitting? If so, I will put grease on the drill bit and tap when preparing for the installation.
> 
> Thanks


Yes I have done couple that way. Just make sure you have lots of grease on your drill bit and tap to catch as many shavings as possible. Also be careful when threading the grease Zerk in and don't overtighten it. The casting is very thin and you don't want to strip it. Don't be shy with the grease when you get it installed. 30 pumps at least. There is lots of room in the right side transmission and the original grease may be dried out somewhat depending on how old your machine is and the amount of use it has.


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## orangputeh

Toon said:


> Yes I have done couple that way. Just make sure you have lots of grease on your drill bit and tap to catch as many shavings as possible. Also be careful when threading the grease Zerk in and don't overtighten it. The casting is very thin and you don't want to strip it. Don't be shy with the grease when you get it installed. 30 pumps at least. There is lots of room in the right side transmission and the original grease may be dried out somewhat depending on how old your machine is and the amount of use it has.
> View attachment 185592
> 
> View attachment 185598


great write up toon. I install a grease fitting on every gearbox. it's also best to completely fill box in my opinion. keeps that pesky water out. that dust seal is worthless in most cases. You can put a beed of that special sause JnC mentioned in previous post.


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## RedShift42

Argh!!
I was just doing the grease zerk mod to my transmission case and the drill bit tip snapped off in the hole. #%$&!
Opinions please: It’s just a small piece, half the tip, maybe 3/32” long. How stupid is it for me to finish the job, pump the case full of grease and cross my fingers instead of tearing this thing down (which I really don’t have time or resources to do) ?


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## Toon

If it is still at the hole try grabbing it with a pair of tweezers. If you have a vacuum extractor try to suck it out with that. I don't like the idea of leaving a hardened piece of steel in a gearbox.


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## tabora

Toon said:


> If it is still at the hole try grabbing it with a pair of tweezers.


Or needle nose pliers. Those have worked for me in the past going right down the two flutes. A little back and forth after a squirt of cutting oil.


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## RedShift42

tabora said:


> Or needle nose pliers. Those have worked for me in the past going right down the two flutes. A little back and forth after a squirt of cutting oil.


Frustratingly, it snapped off inside— I had a little too much pressure on the drill so when it broke through it jumped in about 1/2” and must have struck one of the gear cogs and snapped instantly. No plucking it out, the hole is a mere 13/64” so no pliers can fit in, nor any magnetic probes I have or have seen. I tried fishing the hole with the longest magnetized finish nail I could find, no luck.

So many lessons learned. Less pressure, take your time, dial the drill’s clutch way back...


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## Toon

Another thing you might try is a magnet. Since the gearbox casing is aluminium the magnet might pull the drill shard to the opening where you might be able to grab it.


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## tabora

Toon said:


> Another thing you might try is a magnet.


Agreed! A Neodymium rare earth magnet on a stalk would be an option...


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## Toon

I'm guessing you were trying to install a grease zerk with a 1/8" pipe thread. If you have your tap drill hole in the center of the transmission sidewall and not off center, you might be able to tap drill for a 1/4" pipe thread which will give you a larger hole with more visibility on the drill shard and also allow for the magnet if small enough to reach inside the housing.


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## orangputeh

I say live dangerously and pump that sucker full of grease . that drill piece will go off to side and stay there for eternity. Most gearboxes i open up look worse than this. Caked/dried grease, rust, and all kinds of crud. A nd they work like this for 20 years







or more before failing.


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## 67ghiaTIV

Working on my right gear case.... it's in bad shape.
First question. My hydro pump seems loose. I can move it easily. Should it be tight or have this movement?
Second. Is a source for good used parts. My gearcase had water sitting in it. And part of the aluminum is punched out from the loose hydro pump. I may be able to have a machinist friend fix it.....
My machine is a 1990s HS1132
I need 1 or 2 drive cogs...
Gear case aluminum half
Bed panel Gear case half.
Pics included of the pieces I have


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## JnC

I have seen cases in far worse shape than that one. 

Once you install new bearings everything should fall back into its place, the play in the hydro is by design. There is a wave washer on either side of the mounting hole/bracket for the hydro (pinched between the hydro mount hole and a standard washer) to keep the play someone in control, some times that washer breaks and rattles off, you may need to install a new one of those by the way. 

I am not sure whats a good source of parts in Canada but down here I personally just use boats.net.


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## 67ghiaTIV

Thank You JNC. It's looking like water/ice caused the damage on the aluminum case. It's on the low side where water could get in between the case and bearing. Also the case also is slightly cupped out.....

My plan is to reshaped the area with JB Weld, try to find a rubber seal or silicone to seal the area a little better.


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## orangputeh

67ghiaTIV said:


> Thank You JNC. It's looking like water/ice caused the damage on the aluminum case. It's on the low side where water could get in between the case and bearing. Also the case also is slightly cupped out.....
> 
> My plan is to reshaped the area with JB Weld, try to find a rubber seal or silicone to seal the area a little better.


And fill the case all the way with grease so no water can get in. install grease zerk to keep it full.


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## RedShift42

orangputeh said:


> I say live dangerously and pump that sucker full of grease . that drill piece will go off to side and stay there for eternity. Most gearboxes i open up look worse than this. Caked/dried grease, rust, and all kinds of crud. A nd they work like this for 20 years
> View attachment 186599
> or more before failing.


As a big proponent of Doing It Right, I’m almost embarrassed to admit this is exactly what I did.

After the limited magnet fishing efforts failed I opted to pump in 35 shots of low temperature grease, then ver-r-r-r-r-y slo-o-o-o-o-ly engage the drive, gradually exercising it in forward and reverse, praying that bit tip has fallen off to the side and will remain stuck there.
So far the gamble has paid off. I’ve run it for an hour+ of normal use, trying to be atune to any gearcase misbehavior. Undoubtedly I’ll post more here if that shard works it’s way back in and causes calamity.


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## mikeinri

I suppose that I need to add this to my list of things to do to my 2013 HS1332TAS?

Mike


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## orangputeh

mikeinri said:


> I suppose that I need to add this to my list of things to do to my 2013 HS1332TAS?
> 
> Mike


What service it? I'd install a grease zerk and pump in a bunch of new grease.
easy peasy 10 minute job.

donyboy73 has a good video on this. "What every Honda owner should do ."


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## mikeinri

This one?






Several people asked about adding a relief port (worried about building pressure and blowing a seal). Didn't really see a conclusive answer. 

My question is, don't you need to get the old grease out?

Mike


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## JnC

If the machine is used on gravel then I have seen a whole lot of dirt in some gear cases, in that situation its best to replace the damaged/worn parts, replace the bearings and install grease zerk. There is only one way to tell how badly the old grease is contaminated with water and dirt, that is by opening the gear case. Obviously any new grease would only help regardless of what condition the old grease is in so I'd say install the zerk fitting without worrying to much about getting the old grease out.

The gearcase is not fully sealed, if you pump enough grease into the casing it will start oozing out from where the drive shaft comes out and where the HST input shaft goes in, the outside seal Part #15 in the diagram below is a joke. In a lot of cases, especially if there is bad bearing on the driveshaft, it will walk off of its spot and become useless. If it pops off then just push it back on but good luck with trying to do it on an assembled machine. If you install a grease zerk then keep topping off the gear case every year, over time you may need to clean around the driveshaft every now and then for any access grease that has oozed out.


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## mikeinri

Thanks!

Mike


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## orangputeh

For anyone attempting this please invest in the Honda shop manual

I opened this gearbox that was previously rebuilt. The person installed the small gear onto the countershaft in the wrong way and stripped the splines on it. good luck for me. bad luck for him. The orientation of this gear is shown in the shop manual. Many people make this mistake as well as putting spacers in wrong.

pic also shows new counter shaft to see difference. I usually replace this part no matter what.


----------

