# question for all you Tecumseh history buffs out there



## zeke1975 (Jan 9, 2018)

First off, I love this site, so much great info, everyone's contributions are greatly appreciated. I've got a question for all of you Tecumseh engine history buffs out there. I've got a Ariens 926DLE which I purchased new in 2004, great machine, I have never had to do a thing to it other than change the auger belt once in 14 years. This summer, I've been giving it some much needed love, cleaning it up, touching up paint, replacing older wear parts (scraper bar, skid shoes, etc). In looking at the manual (I've attached a screen shot of it), it lists the engines on all the DLE models. It specifies the same engine Tecumseh OH318SA, 318CC OHV engine for all of the following models 926DLE, 11526DLE,11528LE, and 11528DLE. It shows the same RPM (3600), the same displacement (318cc) and yet the engine is listed as 9HP in the 926DLE and 11.5HP on the all the 115XXDLE machines. How is the same engine running at the same RPM listed as a different HP output on different machines? funny math on the engine manufacturer's part? or just Ariens slapping the same engine on different blowers and claiming different HP output? I know this is from the heyday of false HP claims from manufacturers.

Thanks!


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I can't be positive on this but I believe it is based so!ely on carburetor jetting. Again, this only something I seem to remember reading.


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## Dauntae (Nov 10, 2016)

micah68kj said:


> I can't be positive on this but I believe it is based so!ely on carburetor jetting. Again, this only something I seem to remember reading.


Can’t be the jetting as when there were so many variants of the same engine many had adjustable needles stock, The EPA put a stop to that but still had them, Have a 8.5 and a 10hp that have I believe factory adjustable carbs so either the numbers are bunk is or there is a difference internal.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

In every other instance I have ever seen, machines with different HP ratings do have different engines.
I would guess this is most likely a mistake in the manual, and the engines are likely not the same model.



Scot


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Its not a mistake in the manual
Everything is the same
carb 

cam
cc 

its a real 9.7 real hp engine those that paid for 11.5 still got a 9.7 real hp
the torque is the same no matter the hp rating or model its around 16 ft lbs for the ohv 318cc 16 x 3200 rpm = 51200 div by 5252=9.7 give or take the ohv 357cc is 17.5 ft lbs the hm100 was 15.5 the hm80 was 12.75

The guy who paid extra for the 11.5 got hosed
the guy who got the 926 aka 9hp gets a real 9.7 hp or so
thats a very nice machine

there are many articles about this if you search


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

1132le said:


> Its not a mistake in the manual
> Everything is the same
> carb
> 
> ...



Just because everything is the same in the manual, doesnt mean it cant be a mistake in the manual! 
perhaps it was originally all filled out with the same data, and the data for the 11.5 hp was supposed to be changed, and it never was.
I dont know for sure either way, but im still tempted to say the manual could be wrong..seems the most likely answer so far.


Or..perhaps this is one of the primary causes of the lawsuit that led to the OPE manufacturers no longer being able to use HP ratings, because they were being too fast and loose with the ratings. Let's see if we can figure it out!  im very curious to know..


Anyone here have a 2004-ish model 11526DLE, 11528LE, or 11528DLE? If so, what's the actual engine model on it?


Scot


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

sscotsman said:


> Just because everything is the same in the manual, doesnt mean it cant be a mistake in the manual!
> perhaps it was originally all filled out with the same data, and the data for the 11.5 hp was supposed to be changed, and it never was.
> I dont know for sure either way, but im still tempted to say the manual could be wrong..seems the most likely answer so far.
> 
> ...


The 11528 all came with 318cc ohv with the same torque as 926
the manual is not wrong
when you bring up the specs on snowblowers direct and put in the model year they all come up with the 318 cc with same torque figure
there are atleast 3 places that specs that all have the the motor listed as 318 cc
also owners complaing about getting the 318cc rated at 11.5 hp the same as the 9hp
this isnt something thats not well known
those that bought a 11528 got hosed
the hm80 was also rated 8 hp 8.5 and 9hp on different machines
12.75x 3200=40800 div by7.7 hp
all those ratings were bs
the hm80 were all the same
cam 

carb 
cc
its a real 7.7 hp engine again this is all well known if you research it
those that paid for a 9hp got hosed


this is one of reason the goverment made them change the way they were listing power figures
is because they were slapping 9 hp stickers on blowers that had the same specs as a blower with a 8hp sticker
the motors were all the same its very well known scot
all the specs are correct except 1 its not 11.5 hp


https://www.snowblowersdirect.com/Ariens-11528DLE-Snow-Thrower/p788.html


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Redoctybr has a 1024 pro i think it is with the 318cc ohv engine tec
so that 1 motor has ratings 9hp 10hp 11.5 hp
someone called tecumseh and the bsed him telling him they make more power with diff cams and jets for the carb
when the motors were all taken apart they had the same cams same carbs same jets ( such bs )


here it is in tecumseh own specs
http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/html/engine-specs/tecumseh/engine-specs_line-drawings.pdf


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## SayItAintSnow (Dec 15, 2017)

Zeke,

If you are truly talking about the same physical engine with say, one rated for 8hp another for 9, and another for 10, then I think theoretically there's only one way to do it, and legitimately rate them for different hp.

But this assumes that there is no difference in elements such as intake flow or exhaust flow design, or compression ratio, bore size, or stroke length, etc., i.e.: *Really, the same physical engine.
*
If the manufacturer designs an engine for 10 hp set for a given fixed rpm and maintained by a governor, then for the same engine to be rated at 8 or 9 hp, it can be adjusted and governed to maintain a lower rpm. It would seem logical that for the higher rpm engine that the jetting would be slightly different than for the lower one too, but I'm not sure that would always be necessary, especially for only one or two ponies of difference.

_The real question is:_ Could you really tell the difference between, for example, an old TEC Snow King rated at 8,9, or 10 hp, in their heyday when they were new, all with good compression? Maybe only with three brand new machines in exactly the same shape going side by side and comparing throwing distance.... Even then, it's important to remember that hp is only one of many variables when it comes to throwing distance.

_You might wonder why would they slow down and reduce hp for an engine that costs the same to make as the higher rated one?_



_Marketing....._
They'll still make money on the slowest, (therefore cheapest) machine with that engine, but can target different buyers, and as _*"1132le"*_ suggested, the guy who thought he was buying the "Cadillac" version, and paid a lot more....got hosed.


*It's really an old trick used in other industries......*

When I started working many years ago as a young lad, in the old days of computers _(the kind that would take up an entire giant room)_, computer manufacturers would do something similar. Companies like Honeywell would make one computer but sell it at three different prices depending on processing speed. The joke was they were all equally fast, and really all the same computer, but the slower ones had a circuit board with a couple of jumpers that would steal every other cpu cycle, or every third cycle, affecting speed. *The dirty little secret was:* when a customer wanted to _"upgrade"_ to a faster computer, Honeywell would send in a tech who would look like he was making a lot changes to the system, but in reality, the only change was, he'd pull out a circuit board and cut one or two of the cycle stealing jumpers. "That'll be $10,000 please"....":surprise:

*Some of us were aware of the trick, and had our own jumper boards installed, but would swap the original one back in when having to make a service call. I'm not going to mention any names, but let's just say a "friend" of mine used to do that...*.:devil:


.


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## zeke1975 (Jan 9, 2018)

sscotsman said:


> Just because everything is the same in the manual, doesnt mean it cant be a mistake in the manual!
> perhaps it was originally all filled out with the same data, and the data for the 11.5 hp was supposed to be changed, and it never was.
> I dont know for sure either way, but im still tempted to say the manual could be wrong..seems the most likely answer so far.
> 
> ...


Just for comparison purposes, I'm attaching a pic of the engine tag on my 926DLE engine to compare the engine spec #'s. Thanks for the input guys!


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## zeke1975 (Jan 9, 2018)

1132le said:


> Its not a mistake in the manual
> Everything is the same
> carb
> 
> ...


It's been a great machine. For the first 12 years I had it it handled everything thrown at it. Last year we moved from the burbs (Orchard Park NY, stone's throw from New Era Field where the Buffalo Bills play) out to the country (going from 94" of annual snot to a place that averages 140"). When we went through our first winter last year at the new house, my wife commented that we may need a bigger snowblower, after noticing all of our neighbors have full size, compact or sub compact diesel tractors with PTO driven blowers. I told her, let's see how this winter goes, after all, this blower handled this storm https://www.weather.gov/buf/lake1415_stormb.html without issue, I had the only clean driveway on my street, at least to the 6' wall of snow that was the street.

We got a storm last winter that dropped 30" of heavy wet snow in one day, I was able to clean out my driveway without issue. Had to help dig out some neighbors when their 7' wide PTO driven blowers were clogged with heavy wet snow when they tried to push it through the 4' EOD berm of quasi concrete, that whole impeller to bucket size issue, jamming 7' of sludge into a 20" impeller.


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## zeke1975 (Jan 9, 2018)

1132le said:


> Its not a mistake in the manual
> Everything is the same
> carb
> 
> ...


It's been a great machine. For the first 12 years I had it it handled everything thrown at it. Last year we moved from the burbs (Orchard Park NY, stone's throw from New Era Field where the Buffalo Bills play) out to the country (going from 94" of annual snow to a place that averages 140"). When we went through our first winter last year at the new house, my wife commented that we may need a bigger snowblower, after noticing all of our neighbors have full size, compact or sub compact diesel tractors with PTO driven blowers. I told her, let's see how this winter goes, after all, this blower handled this storm https://www.weather.gov/buf/lake1415_stormb.html without issue, I had the only clean driveway on my street, at least to the 6' wall of snow that was the street.

We got a storm last winter that dropped 30" of heavy wet snow in one day, I was able to clean out my driveway without issue. Had to help dig out some neighbors when their 7' wide PTO driven blowers were clogged with heavy wet snow when they tried to push it through the 4' EOD berm of quasi concrete, that whole impeller to bucket size issue, jamming 7' of sludge into a 20" impeller.


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## guyl (Jun 12, 2016)

SayItAintSnow said:


> Zeke,
> 
> If you are truly talking about the same physical engine with say, one rated for 8hp another for 9, and another for 10, then I think theoretically there's only one way to do it, and legitimately rate them for different hp.
> 
> ...


Hah, I worked for Sperry Univac back in the late 70's and it was the same thing. The 90/25 computer was a stock 90/30 that executed a NOP (no operation) every 4th cpu cycle.

The same kind of thing still happens today, such as with Tesla battery capacity. Cars that are sold with a 60 kWh battery actually have the same physical battery as those with 75 kWh but are restricted by software, and you can buy the capacity upgrade for some $10,000


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

guyl;1597557
The same kind of thing still happens today said:


> Wow - Has someone developed a hack for this upgrade ? Seems like a very lucrative business.
> 
> 
> Seems like worrying about that would be enough for Elon Musk to start smoking weed !


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## Dusty (Dec 13, 2018)

Yes


SayItAintSnow said:


> Zeke,
> 
> If you are truly talking about the same physical engine with say, one rated for 8hp another for 9, and another for 10, then I think theoretically there's only one way to do it, and legitimately rate them for different hp.
> 
> ...


Yes, you could, because the 8, 8.5, 9 and 9.5 are all 318cc which were all really 8hp, the 10 and 10.5 were 358cc, same block, bigger bore and piston, only difference. The only way the could legitimately get those ratings correct are by setting the rpms lower on one machine at the plant, labeling that the lower hp model, take the other one set its rpms higher, label it as the higher hp model. Thats all they could have done. Than if someone took a Tachometer and set them all to 3600 after, they would all be the same power. It was bunk. You had an 8hp and a 10hp. The only legit difference I saw in the Tecumseh spec book is the 11hp 358cc engine. It has a slightly larger bore and stroke than the 10hp. Actually, I'd like to get my hands on the 11hp flathead, their harder to come by and were the most powerful flathead Snowking you could get. IMO the flathead Tecumseh's are better than their late short lived ohv models. (Yes, I know this conversation is old, but was looking up displacement just now, which is still relavant).


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