# Removing Old Bolts for a bucket Scrape Blade



## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

How to remove some ancient, rusted, worn down bolts holding the scrape blade?
So much of the bolt is worn down, there's not enough to use a wrench.

Here's a picture of one of them.


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## Prime (Jan 11, 2014)

Grind off the nuts with an angle grinder and put new hardware with the new scraper.


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

Soak with 50/50 ATF and acetone, Kroil, or PB Blaster for a while. Then Vice-Grip (the real ones, not the pot-metal knock-offs) to hold the worn end.

I was looking at the scraper bolt spec for my Husqvarna, and it shows grade-8 carriage bolts and nuts. I wasn't watching how much the bolt ends were wearing as the scraper got narrowed by my textured concrete grinding stones. Local industrial hardware place dished up the replacements relatively painlessly. The orange big-box stores had nothing. I need to better remember to keep the indy store in business.


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## guilateen02 (Nov 23, 2014)

I've had that problem many times with repair jobs I've done. Yours looks like you can still get a socket on there. An impact wrench makes quick work of getting them off. Usually by just snapping them right off.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Grinder, cutoff wheel. Done in less than a minute. Don't pick up the little bits that fall off right away
Hard to tell from your pic, is that the outside or inside of the bucket? Usually the head of the bolt should be inside the bucket and the nuts and extra threads outside (smoothest transition to the inside).


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

This photo is outside the bucket, bottom of the scraper.

The impact wrench is a good idea, I hadn't thought of that. 
I wasn't going to use a Visegrips, as I didn't think there was enough left to grab on, but hey, why not give it a shot before I pull out the cutoff wheel (which is my final tool for this).

Thank you all for refreshing my memory as to what techniques are available.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

dr bob said:


> I was looking at the scraper bolt spec for my Husqvarna, and it shows grade-8 carriage bolts and nuts. I wasn't watching how much the bolt ends were wearing as the scraper got narrowed by my textured concrete grinding stones. Local industrial hardware place dished up the replacements relatively painlessly. The orange big-box stores had nothing. I need to better remember to keep the indy store in business.


I'm only asking because I'm curious: is your point that you should be using carriage bolts, or grade 8 carriage bolts? 

Definitely use carriage bolts. But the need for grade 8 seems less clear to me. 

They don't need to be super-strong (adding anti-seize should help make them easier to remove in the future). And if you're wearing them against your driveway, I'd think, if anything, softer would be better than harder (like grade 8). That would be less likely to mark up your driveway. 

And the skid shoes/scraper bar should be taking most of the abrasion. If they're wearing down, exposing the scraper bar bolts, then I'd expect those bolts will wear down regardless of what grade you pick.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

I think the Angle Grinder is necessary. With an Impact Wrench, the "square" shoulder of the Carriage Bolt will likely permanently round out the square hole in the scoop . . . . making it impossible to use a Carriage Bolt again.


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## Sign216 (Feb 14, 2017)

Vermont007 said:


> I think the Angle Grinder is necessary. With an Impact Wrench, the "square" shoulder of the Carriage Bolt will likely permanently round out the square hole in the scoop . . . . making it impossible to use a Carriage Bolt again.


Thanks for that, Vermont. Hadn't thought of that possibilty.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Grinder...cut off wheel....blue wrench ( torch).....what is the problem?


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

I'm in with the impact wrench too. I use cordless impact, short 1/2" impact socket and TIGHTEN until they snap......that'll make kwik work of them. Short socket less likely to tip off the side. Tightening the bolt will not damage the square hole for future use. Using an impact helps snap off what very little is actually left of that bolt. Never use grade 8 on a slice bar.... it's overkill, more expensive and helps damage whatever surface you run it on, and harder to snap the next time this happens.

GLuck, Jay


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

I don't know this machine. Maybe it is built like a Sherman Tank, but I have seen the square holes deform from over torquing nuts. It is a judgement call. It is not a no brainier.

I would consider using stainless steel carriage bolts and nuts. Or at least stainless nuts if you can't get the stainless carriage bolts. That is what I have used to replace the originals on mine. I live near a bunch of boat yards and all of the area hardware stores carry a good selection of stainless hardware. Even the nearby Lowes.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

"TIGHTEN" . . . . from appearances, I thought I had enough good stock on the first Carriage Bolt I loosened; but after I had the nut moving up the shaft an ⅛" or so, it stalled on the rust, and the bolt began rotating inside the square hole, and I couldn't get a good grip on the punky head with a vice-grip.. I never thought about tightening first and simply breaking off the carriage bolts and simply sacrificing them for the problems they cause; I probably thought they were salvageable and could be re-used.

After that first one caused me such a problem, I used a grinder to take that one and all of the remaining ones off, and I replaced them all with Stainless Steel Carriage Bolts and Nuts, and the heads of the Carriage Bolts are "grooved" so that they can be immobilized with a large flat-headed screwdriver the next time . . . . if the person doing the work thinks of it !


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## wow08816 (Feb 2, 2017)

If you don't have a angle grinder... you can try a gator wrench.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Glad you got it done!
I have never seem slotted carriage bolts. Interesting! Am I assuming incorrectly that you bought them with the slots.?


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

dr bob said:


> ...
> 
> I was looking at the scraper bolt spec for my Husqvarna, and it shows grade-8 carriage bolts and nuts. I wasn't watching how much the bolt ends were wearing as the scraper got narrowed by my textured concrete grinding stones. Local industrial hardware place dished up the replacements relatively painlessly. The orange big-box stores had nothing. I need to better remember to keep the indy store in business.





RedOctobyr said:


> I'm only asking because I'm curious: is your point that you should be using carriage bolts, or grade 8 carriage bolts?
> 
> Definitely use carriage bolts. But the need for grade 8 seems less clear to me.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure that there's a specific advantage to Grade-8. Just passing along what the parts sheet shows. Easy enough to follow the guidance so I did. In my limited experience, equipment designers seldom spec a more expensive part without a good reason. I agree that there's not a lot of obvious advantage.

The bolts on mine were, um, shortened some after just a few machine uses; I didn't realize how fast the original plastic skid shoes were wearing. Now that the bucket rides on bigger Delrin (what I had handy) feet, the new bolts sit well clear of the pavement. I check the blade clearance now after just about every use. Takes seconds to adjust the shoes to preserve the metal.

I put a new scraper bar on it after wearing the original in pretty well. For grins I put the old blade underneath so the bucket metal is sandwiched between the new on top and the older (narrow) one underneath. Works a treat, and should protect the bucket. It deserved slightly longer bolts for that, while I was there.


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

Six point socket, impact driver, and loosen it. There's no rusted threads left to hang up on, Hold the carriage head in place with your thumb.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> ". . . I have never seem slotted carriage bolts. Interesting! Am I assuming incorrectly that you bought them with the slots . . ."


I thought I did; but since you asked the question, and I looked more closely at mine; I think I used my Dremel Tool to create the groove or slot in those heads . . . . they're functional; but not as uniform or pretty looking as they would be if "Store Bought" !

I think I was also tempted to use an oval headed Torx driven stainless steel bolt; but must have thought better of the idea because the Torx cavity would get crudded up and present more of a problem in stabilizing the bolt than would a simple groove which is easy to clean using the same flat headed screwdriver as will be used to hold the bolt in position when un-doing the nut.

I could have sworn that these were available commercially (but I don't see them anywhere); but by definition, Carriage Bolts are made to be installed with just one tool; for security, cannot be removed from the insecure side; and are supposed to be smooth and free of obstructions (like heads) that could catch on the tack or reins and harnesses used to rig Carriages.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

I took a saws-all to a machine recently to get grounded down bolts off. Drilling was too time consuming and broke a few bits. It worked ok. Did knick the bucket a bit but some spray paint fixed that up.


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## GASMAN (Dec 6, 2017)

Vermont007 said:


> After that first one caused me such a problem, I used a grinder to take that one and all of the remaining ones off, and I replaced them all with Stainless Steel Carriage Bolts and Nuts, and the heads of the Carriage Bolts are "grooved" so that they can be immobilized with a large flat-headed screwdriver the next time . . . . if the person doing the work thinks of it !


I'm having the same issue and was thinking about going to buy an angle grinder to get the bolts off, but I've never used one. Did you use a grinding wheel or a cutting wheel? Any particular grade or type?


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

GASMAN said:


> I'm having the same issue and was thinking about going to buy an angle grinder to get the bolts off, but I've never used one. Did you use a grinding wheel or a cutting wheel? Any particular grade or type?


For such a small job, I don't think it matters much . . . . you just want to be careful to take the minimum amount of stock off, and try not to touch the sheet metal of your scoop/bucket.

I don't recall what kind of wheel was on the Angel Grinder that I used; I just borrowed one from a Friend a few miles away, and used whatever was mounted at that time. If you can, just rent a Grinder for a few hours. 

Later, I used a Dremel Tool to put a Screwdriver groove in the heads of my new Stainless Steel Carriage Bolts so that they won't be tempted to turn the next time.

If the ¼" square hole is already rounded out, you might consider increasing the size by one step, and making it 5/16" to hold a slightly larger Carriage Bolt in the future. I guess the key is to NOT allow the Carriage Bolt to start turning.

PS: Depending upon how much material is left of the original Carriage Bolt's Nut, a Dremel Tool may help you get it stabilized for replacement. This all boils down to not adjusting the scraper bar to the bare minimum; and/or replacing the Scraper Bar Carriage Bolts BEFORE their Nuts are severely worn . . . . and maybe periodically loosening and retightening them once a year ?

The Carriage Bolt Nuts seem to wear far faster that the actual Scraper Blade they're retaining !


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

If you have a head really messed up and need to grip it, grab a nut and spot weld it to the head of the bolt and have at it. Done that many times before and as long as your welding is sufficient it's good-to-grab.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

HCBPH said:


> If you have a head really messed up and need to grip it, grab a nut and spot weld it to the head of the bolt and have at it. Done that many times before and as long as your welding is sufficient it's good-to-grab.


I can't quite visualize that because it's the Carriage Bolt's threads and the Nut that get "messed up" or worn down on the pavement. The smooth head (which was inside the scoop) is usually okay . . . . and it's still smooth, just like the head of a Carriage Bolt.


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## sidegrinder (Apr 18, 2015)

Tighten with an impact to snap off.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Vermont007 said:


> I can't quite visualize that because it's the Carriage Bolt's threads and the Nut that get "messed up" or worn down on the pavement. The smooth head (which was inside the scoop) is usually okay . . . . and it's still smooth, just like the head of a Carriage Bolt.



It's just a way to grab the head so you can break the nut loose. It's not intended to be used that way, just a temp situation to get it loose so you can replace it.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

GASMAN said:


> I'm having the same issue and was thinking about going to buy an angle grinder to get the bolts off, but I've never used one. Did you use a grinding wheel or a cutting wheel? Any particular grade or type?


Until you get experience using a hand grinding tool I would use the grinding wheel. The cut off wheel are very thin and much more easier to break. Make sure you wear eye protection and make sure your sparks are well away from any think that is flammable. Like a can of gas or mineral spirits.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

i would use a cutoff wheel or a plasma torch.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Yes!......plasma torch would be great......if you have access to one.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

cranman said:


> Grinder...cut off wheel....blue wrench ( torch).....what is the problem?


some of us are real neophytes that need advice on stuff you wrench monkey's take for granted. that is probably the major reason this site gets new members everyday .


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