# Toro Power Clear Not Starting (Fuel Issue)



## JaCkaL829 (Jan 30, 2011)

Hello,

I have a snowblower that had some difficulty starting last week, and I'm wondering if any other members have experienced this issue as well. I got my wife's boss a Toro Power Clear 721 R-C with the 212cc Chinese Honda clone being branded as Toro Premium Engine. I bought it for him about 3 years ago. He called and said he couldn't get it running at all, so I stopped over last week. Gas tank was completely filled with High octane gas (gas station) and I tried quickly to shoot some ether in the carb with the float bowl off. I wasn't disassembling half the machine to get the carb off in the tundra like weather we had up in North NJ. I was unsuccessful and took the machine home. Today being in the 40s I messed with it and was able to get it started with priming it, but would only run for a few seconds. So I figure it's a carb issue that needs to be cleaned. Prior to leaving my garage I decide to drain the gas since I'm not sure how old it is. This carb has the screw that comes off the bowl, and I notice no gas coming out at all. So now it's not so much a carb problem, but fuel delivery. The float and pin moved fine when I cleaned the carb through the bowl. So I experiment and decide to take the gas cap off, and low and behold gas is flowing out. I decide to try to start it with the gas cap off, and it starts up fine, and idles for a solid 10 mins with choke off. I even put the gas cap back on and it ran fine. 

I'm just wondering what the problem is or was? Is it possible to put too much gas in the tank on these snowblowers? The whole time I was working on it I felt it wasn't getting any fuel, thinking the fuel filter needs to be cleaned. I guess the gas created vacuum that I released by removing the gas cap? Any information on the topic would be appreciated. I would just like to know for future reference, or if I should clean the carb more in depth. I hate cleaning these carbs because of the extensive disassemble on it, I'd rather just drain the gas, run some Seafoam in it, and fill it up with fresh gas; especially seeing as it runs fine now. 

Any help or info on the topic would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

Maybe the machine went from a hot to cold environment quickly. I have a plastic gas can in my shed that depending on the temperature and how much fuel is in it will either suck the sides of the can in or blow them out like a balloon. Maybe that could happen with a fuel line out of a tank as well. I think you solved the problem though just by breaking that vacuum.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

No you cannot overfill it and no it wasn't a vacuum in the tank. When you first went to start at his house you took the cap off and it still did not start so that blows that theory. It had an obstruction/sticking most likely at the float valve.

Replace the rubber fuel hose as their is a TSB on it deteriorating, IIRC.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

I have a similar machine and I know what you mean about accessing the carb. These are not made for the average home owner to work on. It is doable but you need to have some patience.

The needle may have been stuck. The vent in the gas cap may have been blocked.
The filter may have had crud in it.

See how it goes with some seafoam or similar in the gas. If it keeps happening and loosening the gas cap solves it, then a new cap may be your answer.. Or you may have to just bite the bullet and pull the plastic off and check the gas filter and remove the bottom of the carb and inspect it. 

Edit: I was writing as DriverRider posted and he is dead on. I missed that fine point of you removing the gas cap.
I will add you can clean the gas filter. You dont need to replace it unless you want to. It is just a metal screen that can be cleaned out with compressed air or brake cleaner.

good luck!


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Encourage your friend to purchase non-ethanol gas if possible rather than "high octane gas" as stated. High octane still has ethanol in it so if it's not super fresh, problems like your friends do happen. It's hard to work on other folks equipment. Sometimes that left over lawn mower gas is so tempting to be burned by someone not knowing the consequences. From what I'm reading it's likely bad gas is the cause. Glad you got it running! Kudos to you for sticking to it. Besides Seafoam, I've had good luck using K100 in my small equipment when I cannot get over to the station that sells non-ethanol gas.


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## JaCkaL829 (Jan 30, 2011)

DriverRider said:


> No you cannot overfill it and no it wasn't a vacuum in the tank. When you first went to start at his house you took the cap off and it still did not start so that blows that theory. It had an obstruction/sticking most likely at the float valve.
> 
> Replace the rubber fuel hose as their is a TSB on it deteriorating, IIRC.


When I went there initially I never had the gas cap off and the bowl removed at the same time. I took the bowl off twice and sprayed it with carb cleaner which got me nowhere. It wasn't till I removed the drain screw and noticed nothing coming out today, than while the drain screw was open I took the gas cap off and all of a sudden gas flowed out fine. I'll look into the fuel line, although I'm not 100% convinced that's it. I do have plenty of fuel line that I can replace it with. I bought the repair kit for that particular carb since the bowl gasket was cut probably from me taking it on and off multiple times and these bitter cold temps. I can replace the gasket and put a new float valve in it.


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## mobiledynamics (Nov 21, 2014)

You guys that have access to non e are lucky. Give me some MTBE back in my daily drivers ! I miss it.
The closest one the last time I checked was 2 states away !


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## JaCkaL829 (Jan 30, 2011)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> I have a similar machine and I know what you mean about accessing the carb. These are not made for the average home owner to work on. It is doable but you need to have some patience.
> 
> The needle may have been stuck. The vent in the gas cap may have been blocked.
> The filer may have had crud in it.


I have a Toro 210 and 1 screw holds the access panel. With that off all you need to do is unscrew two long screws holding the carb to the intake manifold, followed by disconnecting two hoses, and a spring and you have the entire carb in your hand. 

I forgot to mention my neighbor has a power clear 621e as does my in-laws. Both of them we're unable to start their machines the night before the storm. I don't tend to my neighbors machine, but he claims he drained it/ ran it dry last spring. My in-laws machine had stabilizer in it. Both machines I was able to get going just by opening the bowl and spraying carb cleaner through it. We've been having unusually low temperatures in North Jersey for the past 2 weeks, and all 3 machines are stored in unheated garages, so I wonder if any of those factor in?


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

mobiledynamics said:


> You guys that have access to non e are lucky. Give me some MTBE back in my daily drivers ! I miss it.
> The closest one the last time I checked was 2 states away !


My closest station is 2 miles away. If they are out I've got 2 other stations within 20 minutes. So yes, I'm very lucky and very very rarely out of the good stuff.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

JaCkaL829 said:


> I have a Toro 210 and 1 screw holds the access panel. With that off all you need to do is unscrew two long screws holding the carb to the intake manifold, followed by disconnecting two hoses, and a spring and you have the entire carb in your hand.
> 
> I forgot to mention my neighbor has a power clear 621e as does my in-laws. Both of them we're unable to start their machines the night before the storm. I don't tend to my neighbors machine, but he claims he drained it/ ran it dry last spring. My in-laws machine had stabilizer in it. Both machines I was able to get going just by opening the bowl and spraying carb cleaner through it. We've been having unusually low temperatures in North Jersey for the past 2 weeks, and all 3 machines are stored in unheated garages, so I wonder if any of those factor in?


Probably the low temps did play a part. If the temperature range goes either way too much out of the average, most folks will either under or over prime for the "real" conditions.


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## mobiledynamics (Nov 21, 2014)

Zavie -

Man, I envy you . I miss the days of MTBE gas.....there is a slight noticeable difference in power. However, it's been sooooo long, that I've been running on corn gas, I can't recall the wine note seat of the pants differences.


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## JaCkaL829 (Jan 30, 2011)

Thought I give you guys an update....I bought the rebuild kit for the carb which included the bowl gasket, the nut and drain screw gasket and the gaskets for the manifold. After I initially got it running, it was leaking gas from somewhere on the carb pretty bad that it emptied my tank. I noticed the bowl gasket was cut, so I figured that was the issue and why I ordered the rebuild kit. 

Once I got the kit, I installed the new gaskets (bowl, drain and bowl nut, and put the new float, valve and spring on) I put fresh gas in it, and mix some seafoam in it. I ran it for a good 15 minutes, and it ran fine. I than changed the oil, and drained the carb from the drain screw. After I filled the oil, and put the drain screw back on. I wanted to avoid any immediate future issues so I put some VP gas (no ethanol) in it. The next day, it's leaking gas again from the carb. When I took the carb bowl off, I noticed very small specs in the bowl gasket, I believe they we're from the newer gaskets since I think they we're red. Now the only thing I didn't touch was the needle seat, I believe that's fixed in this carbs. I'm also now considering what a previous member mentioned doing and replacing the fuel lines and fuel filter. I'd prefer not to disassemble the entire machine, but I can't give it back to the owner if it's still sill leaking gas.

Any help would be appreciated.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

651564https://www.repairclinic.com/video/...uel-filter-and-fuel-line-replacement-120-4401


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## JaCkaL829 (Jan 30, 2011)

I finally finished working on this machine. I ended up ordering a new carburetor for the machine. After much searching online to see if the Toro 621 has a different carburetor than the Toro 721 (163cc vs 212cc) engine both made from China, I decided to order the cheapest one from eBay. It appears as though Huyai makes 'OEM' carbs for these Honda clones. I've replaced quite a few of these on other Toro single stage blowers, in addition to a couple MTD single stages and a Generac generator; all having the same Loncin Honda clone engine. Some descriptions say the carb works with only Toro 621, while others say it works with Toro 621 and 721. I ordered one on eBay that definitely was Huyai, and I like to buy from within the US just to make sure I get it sometime in a week time span. 

Anyway, I put the new carburetor on the machine with the warmer weather yesterday. I also made a point to completely remove the fuel lines and replace with new Briggs fuel line that I use for lawnmowers. I also sprayed the fuel filter with some carb cleaner both ways. It all seemed fine, but I figure I replace with the machine all torn apart. With the new carb and fuel connections all is well. No more leaking gas, and it seems to run exactly how it ran before. Perhaps I'm getting faster with the disassembly of the machine but it only took me about 30 mins. One thing I wish with these machines that there was more space to access from below. I would have liked to add a simple fuel valve to turn gas on/off, but there is literally no room at all to put one on and access, so I just let it be. 

One thing I did notice was the newer carb fuel line inlet was a little different as in angled, not straight out, but nothing that seems to be majorly concerning. After seeing how nice the carb worked, I decided to order 3 more just to keep on hand. From a price/labor point of view it's just not worth taking the carb off the machine a bunch of times to clean it and get the same results. For $20 shiped a completely new carburetor and it's nice that it comes with a brand new primer line attached to it, I always seem to rip mine when removing. 

So, I'm still not sure why this problem happened, but I'm glad it's resolved, and that I have spare carbs for future fixes.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

Nice fix. Just wondering if you could put a link to the carb you ordered in case anyone else would like to try one out.


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