# Can over-inflation stretch tires so they won't seal at the bead?



## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

I have an old Honda snowblower that I bought used and has the original tires on it. In the two years I've owned it, one tire has always had a slow leak despite putting in Slime. Also, I've been inflating the tubeless tires to only 8 psi as Honda recommends, but I've always found that the blower has been difficult to turn. 

So in getting the blower ready for winter a few weeks ago, I thought I'd inflate the tires to their max listed pressure: 17 PSI. Thought that may help with the turning and keep my from having to refill the slowly leaking tire as often.

I don't know if my inflation gauge is off, but when I inflated them to 17 PSI, the outer sidewalls were bulging way out, so I quickly deflated them a bit until they weren't bulging out.

Fast forward to today, when we got hit with our first snowstorm of the season. I go out to start the snowblower and the tire with the slow leak was completely empty and the tire was pulled away from the rim. By using a few people and multiple hands to push the tire against the rim so it would take air (I didn't know about the ratchet strap trick at the time) we were able to slightly inflate the tire and have it connect to the rim (at less than 8 psi). But it wasn't enough air to support the snow blower. So then I added more air and the tire bead would just slip off the rim. We tried a few more times and same thing. Even tried the ratchet strap trick, and that didn't work ... the tire still slips off the rim when inflated.

Now I'm thinking my inflation gauge was off and I stretched the tires too much by over-inflating them. And since I can easily pull the deflated tire off the rim by hand (don't need tools) is that a sign that the tire rubber is stretched out too much and I really need to buy new tires?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

New Tires ….

I think the least amount of air I have ever seen for a small tire was 12 lbs … many are in the 20 lb. range.

Those tires sure appear to be toast. The ratchet works well on tubeless tires when inflating them if it wont conform to the rim.

If your doing it yourself, I recommend the Harbor Freight mini tire changer. Otherwise take the tires somewhere to have them mounted, as they are very tough without that mini changer.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

The old Honda used a two piece rim that you just split and took the tire off by hand.
The tires on the old Honda only took about 8 psi max or you would blow it off if the bead ring that is in the tire. You can put the ring back in the tire, but a lot of times if you blow it off due to over inflation, the tire is shot.
The original tires used a special low pressure gauge to check pressure in them. A regular tire gauge wont work, it doesnt go low enough. 10 psi is the high limit on those tires.
Those Ohatsu tires were just an inner tube with knobby tread on them, there was no cord built in the tires so they stretched out like crazy but the were very flexible in cold weather.


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## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

ST1100A said:


> The old Honda used a two piece rim that you just split and took the tire off by hand.
> The tires on the old Honda only took about 8 psi max or you would blow it off if the bead ring that is in the tire. You can put the ring back in the tire, but a lot of times if you blow it off due to over inflation, the tire is shot.
> The original tires used a special low pressure gauge to check pressure in them. A regular tire gauge wont work, it doesnt go low enough. 10 psi is the high limit on those tires.
> Those Ohatsu tires were just an inner tube with knobby tread on them, there was no cord built in the tires so they stretched out like crazy but the were very flexible in cold weather.



Yup, that would explain my problems then! And they are the Ohatsu tires. Thanks for the info. Any suggestions on replacement tires and the best place to buy them at a good price?


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## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

oneacer said:


> New Tires ….
> 
> I think the least amount of air I have ever seen for a small tire was 12 lbs … many are in the 20 lb. range.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info. I think new tires are in my future!


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Studly said:


> Yup, that would explain my problems then! And they are the Ohatsu tires. Thanks for the info. Any suggestions on replacement tires and the best place to buy them at a good price?


You are welcome.
You will blow the tires off their beads and off the rims at 15 PSI.
Those tires have a removable wire type bead in them.
I put tires on those rims that are for a smaller walk-behind garden tiller with the Chevron treads and they work very well in snow with no chains required, and I only run them with about 10 PSI.
You don't need much pressure for snowblower tires to get the traction.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

What is the rim size? , i.e. width and circumference.

Is there a size on those Ohatsu tires that you can read?

Are those split rims with a tube, or are they a tubeless rim?

With that information, you will be able to get a nice new pair of XTrax or SnowHog tires.


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

Normal automotive tires have quite hard/strong wire running around the bead area and that wouldn't stretch. Are you saying the tire bead goes over the rim or it just sinks to the inside area? I'd say if there is nylon in the tire carcass that you stretched it or something inside has ripped. The rubber just holds the air in, the plys inside the tire are what give it shape and hold it together.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

notabiker,
The bead is actually a plastic ring on those tires. The tire is nothing more than an inner tube with knobby treads on it, there is no cord or belting on those tires, they are very flimsy, but flexible, too flexible.
You can remove the bead ring on those tires, it just sits in a groove in the tire itself.
The wheel on the older Honda was a two piece rim that had to be split in half to remove and install the new tires on. 
They were actually very easy to change the tires on. There is a rubber "O" ring that is located between the two rim half's, and if you damage the O ring, it will leak the air out.
Those tires were very low pressure, they usually ran around 8-10 PSI max, if you put 15 PSI in them , you would blow them off the rim. First they would blow off the bead ring and then stretch out and come off the wheel/rim. You could actually stretch the tire over the bead by hand if you had to as long as the tire bead ring came out of the inside of the tire.
Honda stopped using those tires years ago because everybody was over inflating them and blowing them off the wheel rims.
They are tubeless tires, just like any other tubeless tire but have no belting or cording inside them so they are very flexible and will over stretch with too much air.
They were an odd size tire, not a very common size so getting replacement tires was tricky at the time because there weren't a lot of tire options for that size.
I put a set of Carlisle 14x4.5x6NHS Chevron tires on many of those rims, the tires were made for a tiller and they were much stronger and heavier that had a regular bead and were belted.
You didn't need tire irons or a machine to change them, you just split the rim and they came right off. You had to be careful when you installed them so that you did not knock the bead ring out of the tire and once they were installed you did not want to put too much air pressure in them to seat the bead, they usually slid right in place. They were hollow inside, just like a regular tubeless tire but the sidewall and tread face was just like a thick inner-tube with knobby's on it.


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## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

oneacer said:


> What is the rim size? , i.e. width and circumference.
> 
> Is there a size on those Ohatsu tires that you can read?
> 
> ...



From what I read on this forum, because they have the 4 bolts going into the wheel and because it's about 13 years old, I believe they are the split rims. Tire size is 14x4.0-6.


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## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

notabiker said:


> Normal automotive tires have quite hard/strong wire running around the bead area and that wouldn't stretch. Are you saying the tire bead goes over the rim or it just sinks to the inside area? I'd say if there is nylon in the tire carcass that you stretched it or something inside has ripped. The rubber just holds the air in, the plys inside the tire are what give it shape and hold it together.



When deflated, I can actually stretch the tire bead easily off of the wheel rim. When inflated, the bead pops off the rim.


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> The old Honda used a two piece rim that you just split and took the tire off by hand.
> The tires on the old Honda only took about 8 psi max or you would blow it off if the bead ring that is in the tire. You can put the ring back in the tire, but a lot of times if you blow it off due to over inflation, the tire is shot.
> The original tires used a special low pressure gauge to check pressure in them. A regular tire gauge wont work, it doesnt go low enough. 10 psi is the high limit on those tires.
> Those Ohatsu tires were just an inner tube with knobby tread on them, there was no cord built in the tires so they stretched out like crazy but the were very flexible in cold weather.


ST1100A is 100% correct. The older style honda rims are two piece. There's a little felt gasket between the rims. That gasket will wear out over time and either need replacement or require a light layer of Permatex gasket sealer on both sides. Those Ohatsu tires are garbage and turn into ballons after being re-inflated over and over. Over time the bead won't seal against the rim preventing the tire from holding any air. 

Two options: 

Option 1 adding inner tubes to both wheels. The Ohatshu tires are 14" x 4.00 x 6" and are tubeless from the factory, however you can add 4.00 x 6" inner tubes and use the wheels "as is" without replacing the gasket. Again the stock tires are pretty poor and feel sort of soft and bouncy compared to aftermarket tires, so I'm not really a fan of adding inner tubes to the stock Ohatshu tires.

Option two is far better choice in my opinion. Carlisle makes a great replacement tire: X-Trac 15" x 5.00 x 6". It's a nice firm tire with incredible traction and zero bounce or "float". I bought the X-Trac's on Amazon for $27.00 each

https://www.amazon.com/Carlisle-Trac-ATV-Bias-Tire/dp/B001THCJDE

The spec difference between the X-Trac and the stock tire is minimal. X-Trac is 1" taller and 1.00 wider. Traction and performance over the stock Ohatshu tires is night and day. If you go this route, replace the split rim gaskets and run the X-Trac tires tubeless. You won't be disappointed. Good luck!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Actually, the XTrac come in that rim size, as I put them on my Ariens 4 inch wide, 6 inch circumference stock rims. Only 18.97 each at Amazon. but using split rims, you will need to grab tubes with the 90 degree stem.:

https://www.amazon.com/Carlisle-X-Trac-Lawn-Garden-Tire/dp/B06XPV3XVZ


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## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

Freezn said:


> ST1100A is 100% correct. The older style honda rims are two piece. There's a little felt gasket between the rims. That gasket will wear out over time and either need replacement or require a light layer of Permatex gasket sealer on both sides. Those Ohatsu tires are garbage and turn into ballons after being re-inflated over and over. Over time the bead won't seal against the rim preventing the tire from holding any air.
> 
> Two options:
> 
> ...



I agree, I'm thinking adding inner tubes would not be a good option and would just push the side wall of the old tires out again and off the rim. 

Thanks much for the recommendation on the tire. So those taller tires will work with my HS724 blower? Is that what you used it on?


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Studly said:


> I agree, I'm thinking adding inner tubes would not be a good option and would just push the side wall of the old tires out again and off the rim.
> 
> Thanks much for the recommendation on the tire. So those taller tires will work with my HS724 blower? Is that what you used it on?


I have the HS928, but the stock tire size is the same as the HS724 at 14" x 4.00 x 6" . Yes, I used the X-Trac 15" x 5.00 x 6" and very happy with that tire size and performance. X-Trac also makes 13" x 4.00 x 6" which I'm sure would also work, but I elected to go slightly taller and wider vs slightly smaller (13" height on the X-Trac vs 14" on the Ohatshu). Just personal preference.


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

Couldn't find an inflation valve on my tracks. lol


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Also worth mentioning is that you DO NOT reuse the Ohatshu stock plastic tire bead rings when switching to the X-Trac tires. X-Trac tires have a standard heavy duty wire bead, so you don't need those foolish stock plastic tire beads.


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## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

oneacer said:


> Actually, the XTrac come in that rim size, as I put them on my Ariens 4 inch wide, 6 inch circumference stock rims. Only 18.97 each at Amazon. but using split rims, you will need to grab tubes with the 90 degree stem.:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Carlisle-X-Trac-Lawn-Garden-Tire/dp/B06XPV3XVZ



Thanks, I'm going to look into that and the 15" that was also recommended.


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Coby7 said:


> Couldn't find an inflation valve on my tracks. lol


That's because they don't use tire valves on caster wheels connected to wooden platforms needed to move track machines when they're powered off ... lol.. :wink2:


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## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

Freezn said:


> I have the HS928, but the stock tire size is the same as the HS724 at 14" x 4.00 x 6" . Yes, I used the X-Trac 15" x 5.00 x 6" and very happy with that tire size and performance. X-Trac also makes 13" x 4.00 x 6" which I'm sure would also work, but I elected to go slightly taller and wider vs slightly smaller (13" height on the X-Trac vs 14" on the Ohatshu). Just personal preference.





oneacer said:


> Actually, the XTrac come in that rim size, as I put them on my Ariens 4 inch wide, 6 inch circumference stock rims. Only 18.97 each at Amazon. but using split rims, you will need to grab tubes with the 90 degree stem.:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Carlisle-X-Trac-Lawn-Garden-Tire/dp/B06XPV3XVZ



I checked the clearance on my existing 14" tall tires, and because I have a rubber hose coming out of the blower's oil port with a brass end on it for quick oil changes, I think I'll get the 13" tall tires rather than 15. Oneacer, are you pretty happy with those tires and the traction they get? And although you recommended tubes with them, would you agree that those are necessary Freezn, since it didn't sound like you needed tubes on your taller tires of the same type? 



Thanks both of you for the great advice and for saving me lots of money over what I could find with the stock size. I didn't know other slightly different sized tires would work!


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Studly said:


> I checked the clearance on my existing 14" tall tires, and because I have a rubber hose coming out of the blower's oil port with a brass end on it for quick oil changes, I think I'll get the 13" tall tires rather than 15. Oneacer, are you pretty happy with those tires and the traction they get? And although you recommended tubes with them, would you agree that those are necessary Freezn, since it didn't sound like you needed tubes on your taller tires of the same type?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks both of you for the great advice and for saving me lots of money over what I could find with the stock size. I didn't know other slightly different sized tires would work!


You are correct. I had to eliminate my "Drainzit" oil change hose when I changed to the 15" tire. Not 100% sure, but I'm guessing you might have to lower your bucket skids (increase ground clearance) to prevent the auger rakes from hitting the ground with the smaller tire?? I remember I also had to lower my scraper bar with the 15" tire, so you might need to raise you scraper bar slightly with the 13" tire? Regardless, I'm sure you'll be happy with the X-Trac tires vs the stock tires.


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## Coby7 (Nov 6, 2014)

Freezn said:


> That's because they don't use tire valves on caster wheels connected to wooden platforms needed to move track machines when they're powered off ... lol.. :wink2:


I like this response. Only problem the platform is not need, just easier when you don't need to start the beast to move it.


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## Studly (Nov 19, 2017)

Another question for you experts: Does anyone use automotive bead sealer when they mount a new tire? Is it necessary?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Studly said:


> Another question for you experts: Does anyone use automotive bead sealer when they mount a new tire? Is it necessary?


You can use it but I wouldn't unless you have an air leak at the bead where it seats, otherwise, the bead sealer can cause a mess when you use it and slop it all over the place. As long as everything is clean, I would just use dish washing soap as a lubricant, it works well and doesn't make a mess, it washes off easily and helps seal the bead. Much easier to use and clean-up, plus less expensive than automotive bead sealer.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Freezn'
I mentioned a rubber "O-Ring" gasket, it was actually a "Flat O-Ring" or a "Pancake" gasket. Its called different names. 
The ones I worked on had the rubber gasket, I think some were felt, but the felt could leak air.
I would coat the rubber O-Ring or Pancake gasket with Silicon "Sil-Glide" grease to help it seal and preserve the rubber, it was a thicker grease.
Sometimes I used that grease to mount a tire as a bead lubricant/sealer and it worked very well because it would help the bead slide on, and then become "Sticky" to help it seal and I never had a problem with the tire slipping on the rim with it once the tire was inflated. The Silicon also helps protect and preserve the rubber.
Some of the guys mentioned the "X-Trac" tire, that would be a good tire. Those tires weren't available when I did my tires a few years ago, but I did get the stock size tires from Carlisle in the "Garden Tiller" type tire.
If you go with the 15" taller tire, you would want to lower the skids and scraper bar a little bit because it is going to "Tilt" the machine forwards a little bit from the taller tires, but not much and you want to keep it as level as possible so the auger tines don't dig into the ground from the forward tilt, and the auger housing could wear into the ground from the tilt.
If he goes with shorter tires, he would want to raise the skids and scraper bar to level out the machine, but it isn't much adjustment, you figure its only about a half inch difference from the ground to the axle height difference.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

I always, always, always, use a carbon grease bead sealer for all my tires as that guarantees that the beads will not weld them selves to the rims after long periods of use-meaning many years. You can use the carbon tire bead grease to lube up wheel studs and mating surfaces like wheel faces and the exterior side of brake drums to prevent them from rusting together-been there done that with mining machinery. 

You do not need very much to seal a bead, just a tiny amount rubbed around the new tire bead and the rime edges on both sides of the rim. 

I used work with a bunch of crazies/idiots that would use never sieze on tires, rim liner boots and rims and the tires and rims were fused together and it required soaking the beads with hand cleaner to begin to break them loose.

The carbon tire grease also makes it easier to change summer and snow tires every year as well and it prevents damage to the beads of the automotive tires.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

@Studly,

Very happy with them. As I wanted to keep the proper size tire as came with the machine as Ariens had from the factory for the 4 inch wide, 6 inch circumference rim, as the original turf tire was.

You do not use a tube normally with them, as they are a tubeless tire, and normally go over a solid rim, but if you have a split rim, you will require a tube, as split rims are inherently not an air tight set up. I have both type rims, and of course by far, the split rims are way easier to install tires on.


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