# HS828K1 Track Transmission - Yikes!!



## tcislander (Feb 19, 2015)

Yesterday's project was to open the transmission on a HS828 unit. The trans was grinding badly, and unable to move forward under load. Previous owner had normal maintenance tasks performed regularly by a service technician. Here are a couple pics of the condition inside the gearbox. I have some work and $$'s to spend to return this unit to working status!
I am hoping the 2 pictures appear in this post. This is my first attempt with attachments.


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## Mac (Jan 26, 2015)

Doesn't look like the former maintenance was done properly. Are these gears 
supposed to be bathed in gear oil ? are they easy to lube? I ask because I have the same snowblower.


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Well, one picture did anyway.

Looks kind of nasty in there.


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## tcislander (Feb 19, 2015)

*HS828k1 Track Transmission. Yikes!!!!*

The Honda shop manual does not list any maintenance actions for the transmission on my HS828. From what I have read recently, there was a thick grease applied inside the transmission casing during factory assembly. It appears that water and salt seeped into this casing over time, and destroyed bushings and radial bearings. The axle shaft pin snapped, and may have jammed the teeth on the two 48t gears. I found two sections of the broken pin lying inside the casing. One 48t gear had @ steel teeth either missing or mashed.


It took me 1.5 hours to disassemble the right track and other panels to inspect the transmission. Now assessing parts options, and redeeming an IRA to pay for this project...


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Here's a link to JnC's post: "Servicing the right and hydrostatic transmission" It'll show you how it should look (it's an HS624 [sorry, an HS924TA], but close).

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...servicing-right-hydrostatic-transmission.html

By the way, Yikes!! is right. I'll be doing some maintenance on my HS828K0 TAS hyrdo seals and right trans this coming Summer. Good luck. By the way, I live between Maple City and Glen Arbor.

And...welcome aboard.


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## TomB985 (Dec 21, 2013)

This is presumably the first time my 22-year-old HS624 was opened up. 



Didn't look bad at all. As stated above there's no service interval for the grease in the right gearcase, unless a seal or gasket fails you shouldn't have to touch it. Obviously the OP's had a sealing problem.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

It's pretty common for them to do this. Drill and tap the case for a grease nipple or two when you're done.

Also, I seem to remember my former boss mentioning something about some sort of a kit for those gearboxes that included a lot of the parts for a lot less than buying them piecemeal so you might want to check that out as well.

I always thought they should run in 90 gear oil myself, but I don't think the case is sealed well enough for me to dare try it. That grease will not move in the cold, it gets pushed out away from the gears almost immediately and just stays there forever doing nothing.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

94EG8 said:


> It's pretty common for them to do this. Drill and tap the case for a grease nipple or two when you're done.
> 
> Also, I seem to remember my former boss mentioning something about some sort of a kit for those gearboxes that included a lot of the parts for a lot less than buying them piecemeal so you might want to check that out as well.
> 
> I always thought they should run in 90 gear oil myself, but I don't think the case is sealed well enough for me to dare try it. That grease will not move in the cold, it gets pushed out away from the gears almost immediately and just stays there forever doing nothing.



Hey Robert...... We keep seeing that this gearbox is an epic fail. I think you need to bring this up in the Honda meetings you have. 

I am very tempted to start a Honda junk gearbox website. So people who are looking at new Honda snowblowers will get to see the crap gearbox problems BEFORE they buy. Then Honda may do something about their inferior designed gearbox.

I will look into a Square Space site see how much it is. This posters pictures say it all.



.


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## tcislander (Feb 19, 2015)

*Honda HS828K1 Track Yikes!!!!!*

Thanks everyone for the insight and suggestions. Great advice and direction provided on this project!

Most recent post comparing "Honda engineering" to " Yugo engineering" seems pretty bold! Brings back a memory of a news report many years ago that a Yugo was the first car and only car that ever plunged off Michigan's Mackinaw Bridge, which is a 5 mile span that is nearly 60 years old.... . Never heard if the cause was a mechanical design error or driver error......


Having personally used Honda equipment for years, I think they have a very successful track record for building good equipment. So far, every part I need to fix this transmission is available new. I'm very pleased with having that option available! 

Best Regards!


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

The open gearcase shot showing grease bunched up in one area and none on the gear teeth is a bit disheartening and it seems like the thing to do is really pack it full on reassembly with some type of synthetic marine grease that won't harden as much. But the question remains as to how the OPs gearcase got so much water in it. How does water get in there when it can't really drip down from the engine area because of the housing and it would take seemingly forever for anything to splash UP and INTO the case? Was it ever pressure washed to clean salt off?


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

Apple Guy said:


> Then Honda may do something about their inferior designed gearbox.


What exactly would you have Honda do?


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

maybe fill the trans with " 00 " grease, its hould be fluid enough ( some older toro's use it n the auger gear box ) that flow isn't a problem and should be thick enough to not run out of the gear box


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> What exactly would you have Honda do?


Good question, especially considering the difference between the pictures in the thread. In one case there is a 22 year old set of gears nicely greased and in good shape, in the other a rusty mess of muck. Unless we know what caused the latter (water ingress?), it's hard to determine what if anything needs fixing.


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## TomB985 (Dec 21, 2013)

Definitely don't buy the crappy design arguments. I never met the previous owner of my blower, but this was the most neglected piece of equipment I've ever owned. I bought it for $50 with a blown up engine. The auger shaft was bent, both augers were seized to the shaft, the impeller bearing was trashed, tires were flat, and the impeller belt was on its last leg. And the only failure I had in the right gearcase had nothing to do with sealing or lubrication. 

I have photos in several thread on this forum of the rehab I've put this thing through, and despite all the age and neglect my right gearcase looked just fine when opened up. You may say the crosspin is a weak point that can shear, but one example of water intrusion doesn't make a bad design.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> What exactly would you have Honda do?


Sealed with a drain and fill plug so you could run 90 gear oil in it with a breather to keep from blowing the seals out. That along with being able to buy that drive pin separately would keep me pretty happy.

Edit, sealed as in able to run gear oil, not sealed as in not user serviceable.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

I forgot to mention TomB985's write-ups, they are very thorough. Sorry about that.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

detdrbuzzard said:


> maybe fill the trans with " 00 " grease, its hould be fluid enough ( some older toro's use it n the auger gear box ) that flow isn't a problem and should be thick enough to not run out of the gear box


That would be my idea too. If you look at the case that didn't lose it's seal you see a pristine glob of grease that hasn't moved in two decades. "00" if filled up onto the bottom gear would pull itself up the gear as it rotates and spread around the moving parts.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I would not argue that a correction is need to be made to approach of lubrication of this case, but I will bring to the table, how often has the lube caused a failure?


I am not saying that there is not a perceived component of improvement, but rather what is that needs to be improved on the initial design.


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## TomB985 (Dec 21, 2013)

jrom said:


> I forgot to mention TomB985's write-ups, they are very thorough. Sorry about that.


Glad they were helpful. 



db9938 said:


> I would not argue that a correction is need to be made to approach of lubrication of this case, but I will bring to the table, how often has the lube caused a failure?
> 
> 
> I am not saying that there is not a perceived component of improvement, but rather what is that needs to be improved on the initial design.


The roll pin is definitely an area that could use a little attention, perhaps more important on tracked machines. From what I understand the tracked blowers are more likely to have the problem because they can impart much more force to the pin due to the increased traction. I didn't like forking over $75 for a new shaft, but I can't complain too much with the neglect this thing has seen over the years.


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

Looking at the photos again and judging by the rusting springs and other components around that transmission I have a suspicion that blower sat submerged somewhere that flooded. Is that a possibility OP?


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## tcislander (Feb 19, 2015)

I don't know the full history of this HS828 as it was owned by a neighbor. He had the blower routinely serviced locally, which is all I can offer on background. This was his only snowblower, and he used it often. His garage and storage conditions are near impeccable. The blower sat on a raised mat with adequate water runoff channels.

Being submersed under water would not apply here. As to powerwashing, it may have been done as part of a spring service prior to storage. I would say the overall undercarriage condition is quite typical of a 15-20 year old Michigan based snowblower. 

The main axle gear shaft had numerous low spots from wear which would suggest to me that leaking seals and worn bearings were an issue long before I opened the transmission case. Perhaps years? 

My question is: What maintenance procedure on a tracked Honda HS828 would have helped forewarn the owner that the transmission needed attention prior to complete failure? What should the service technician looked for when he did a tune-up and inspection last fall? 

I have inventoried the parts I need to replace, and am set to place my order. I did find a used set of gears and a transmission case with great needle bearings. Thanks for the lead on finding some of these used parts!

I am going to load this transmission with grease, and install a grease fitting for future maintenance.

Looking forward to spring and warmer thoughts!


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Keep us posted please. 

By the way, where did you find used gears and case? I don't need them, but I search online once in a while - craigslist and ebay - and rarely if ever see any.


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## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

tcislander said:


> My question is: What maintenance procedure on a tracked Honda HS828 would have helped forewarn the owner that the transmission needed attention prior to complete failure? What should the service technician looked for when he did a tune-up and inspection last fall?


Nothing, you can't see anything without actually taking the gearcase apart.


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## TomB985 (Dec 21, 2013)

94EG8 said:


> Nothing, you can't see anything without actually taking the gearcase apart.


^^ Yup. This isn't something you normally service. And I really think you're looking for trouble with a grease zerk. This is a sealed housing, so without a place for pressure relief you'll blow seals out quickly once you start pumping grease in. Drill a hole for pressure relief and you have a new place for water intrusion. 

The overwhelming majority of folks have no problem with water intrusion. Fix what's broken and put it back together.


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