# How HOSED am I? - Cracked engine casting



## Seat7A (Dec 9, 2014)

How hosed am I? I cracked the aluminum engine casting on my nearly new HS928 while trying to remove the oil drain plug. Photo attached. Is this repairable or am I looking at a new engine? Photo attached.

For those who want the gory details, I was attempting to instal a DrainzIT extension on the left side of the engine because the oil drain plug on the right side, even with the factory-installed extension, is nearly impossible to use without spilling oil all over the tire and floor. The plug on the left side looked like it would easily accept the DrainzIT extension, so I tried to remove plug. There was slight resistance as I was removing it and that's when the crack must have occurred. I know, stupid me. So, how badly have I shot myself in the foot?


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## Blackfin (Jan 25, 2016)

That looks pretty bad. 

You might be able to save it if you're willing to disassemble the entire engine and take the block to a welder who can de-grease and de-oil the thing and then TIG the entire area. A replacement cylinder block is ~$500-700 so it's worth trying to save what you have before paying big $ for a new motor or parts.

Seems a shame to do so but given the prices involved in replacing the GX270, maybe consider a Predator 301 re-power...


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Not totally hosed yet. You have a few options - it could be welded/filled and re-tapped if you wanted. If there is another location you could add the kit - my vote would be to JB-Weld that bad boy and leave it. They do make a product called aluma-weld


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm glad I wasn't there when that happened :icon_cussing_black:

I'll go ahead and say you can always try to trowel some JB weld in there since you know someone is going to put that out there.
(Edit, and he did faster than I could type)

On a low end unit ... might try it.

You might also disassemble it and have someone try to weld it but unless you're doing the disassembly and reassembly and have some idea what you're doing it might be cheaper to buy an engine.

IMHO, you need an engine. :sad:


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

is it still under warranty? there is no way a casting should just snap like that especially on a brand new engine and i would call it a manufacturing defect. if they wont warranty it try the aluminum welding first but talk to your dealer before doing anything else


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## yarcraftman (Jan 30, 2014)

Seat7a,

Sorry to hear of that happening I feel bad for you man. I bought a 724WA last year and my dealer put a drainzit on the right side of the engine when delivering and before adding oil. 

I also have a drain on the left side and wondered why and read because of the multiple use of these engines. 

How old is your machine? I am still trying to understand why that would crack like that if just loosening the plug wow. 

Hope you can repair it for a reasonable cost.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

A steel plug (untreated) in aluminum will create galvanic activity and corrosion will start to build up.... they will seize together if left long enough. They should use anti-seize in the factory though? Or a treated plug.....? I would certainly talk to your dealer first - then make choices. i wish you were closer by - I know somebody who can weld aluminum since he does it for a living. Not easy - but very doable.


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## fake_usa (Oct 24, 2014)

Those threads are severely stripped. Did you buy it used? It looks like someone cross-threaded the heck out of that drain plug and just kept tightening down till it cracked.


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## Apple Guy (Sep 7, 2014)

No worries, a good TIG welder will patch that up with ease. Very easy fix.


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## sj701 (Jan 23, 2014)

fake_usa said:


> Those threads are severely stripped. Did you buy it used? It looks like someone cross-threaded the heck out of that drain plug and just kept tightening down till it cracked.


Those threads look cross threaded from the previous installation of the drain plug. I'd be looking at warranty or at least going to the dealer to figure out why simply removing a plug could cause that damage.


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

I fear they will blame you as they will claim "you tightened it instead of loosening"


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

You have two options. 

1) Strip the whole block, bring it to a good machine shop/welder and have them weld the broken piece back onto the block and then aluminum weld/plug the drain hole. This means you'll just have one side left to drain the oil from, no worries. 

2) Buy an ebay replica GX270 block and swap over all the parts. I'd go with this option if I was you. 

If quality is in question then worry not as I see these blocks used all the time being that the Honda GX motors are so common on so many third party vendor machines such as power washers etc. 

In addition to the block here are a few things that you'd need

1) New crankcase cover gasket
2) Crankshaft seal, not sure if the block will come with one. 
3) Head gasket.
4) Piston ring kit, usually around $15 OEM. 
5) May have to hone the cylinder.
6) Piston ring compressing tool.
7) A good torque wrench.
8) May be a flywheel removal tool, can be rented from your local auto part store.
9) PATIENCE. 

We are all here to help if you need it.

New Honda GX270 9 HP Engine Block 9HP Cylinder Block Cast Iron Sleeve Standard | eBay


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Wow, for $70 that's a great idea.

Don't know the seller, just grabbed this one for an example.
New Honda GX270 9 HP Engine Block 9HP Cylinder Block Cast Iron Sleeve Standard | eBay


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

Here are the steps, I might be missing one or two. 

1) Start the job when all the parts are with you. 
2) Remove air cleaner, control linkage cover, engine shroud. 
3) Undo throttle/choke cable.
4) Remove belt cover, take off the ride side belt retainer from the face of crankcase cover, pry off the belts. 
5) Unplug the on/off switch cable.
6) Remove the cable retainer from the side of the engine, this will free up the chute rotation control arm. 
7) Take off the four bolts that bolt the block to the chassis. 
8) Move the engine to work bench. 
9) Start bagging and tagging everything.
10) Remove pulleys. 
11) Remove carb, gas tank, muffler, governor linkages, control. 
12) Remove recoil starter, flywheel cover, flywheel, lamp coils, ignition coil. 
13) Remove crank case cover, camshaft (notice the indentation dot on the camshaft for alignment with the dimple on the crankshaft), remove the piston rod retainer (two bolts). Move the piston out of the way and remove the crankshaft.
14) Remove the governor by undoing the bolt outside the block.
15) Remove head, pull the piston out, remove valve lifters. 
16) At this point the block should be free of all the components. 

17) Hone the new block's cylinder, again you might not need to do it. 
18) Install new rings onto the piston, there are videos online showing how to do that, very easy to follow. 
19) Apply healthy amount of engine oil to the walls and piston, compress the rings, slide it into the cylinder, guiding the rod in with your other hand. 
20) Slide in the crankshaft, align the rod onto the crankshaft and install the rod retainer, torque it to specs. 
21) Install valve lifters and camshaft, making sure to align the dimples on crankshaft and camshaft. 
22) Install governor.
23) Install crankcase cover using a new gasket, also transfer over the two aligning dowels from the old block.
24) close and torque the crankcase cover. 
25) Install head gasket and head, torque it to specs, make sure to transfer the valve pushrods.
26) Install lamp coils, flywheel, ignition coil (air gap between the ignition coil and flywheel is 0.4 mm I think, I can confirm it later). 
27) Install carb, control, control cover etc etc. 
28) Fuel tank, flywheel cover, pull start, carb shroud, control cover shroud, muffler if you had removed it from the head. 
29) Install the block back onto the chassis, snap on belts, belt retainer, belt cover and all the other pertinent parts. 

At this point you have a new engine, break it in properly i.e. change oil after first couple of hours of use. 

I am very sure I didnt cover everything above, its just to give you an idea whats involved. 

May sound intimidating but as i said, just have patience and chime in if you need any help. You can knock the project out over a weekend if you have all the parts and tools with you. 

Good luck.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> ...Don't know the seller, just grabbed this one for an example.


I've been driving by them, within 5 miles, twice a month for the last three years and twice a week for the last three months...I ought to stop in some time and check 'em out. Their prices seem to be the best around.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Is that an actual Honda block or a clone?


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

bad69cat said:


> Is that an actual Honda block or a clone?


For that price, it can't possibly be an actual. If it is, that would be a money making source. 

*Wait, I take it back boats.net has an OEM block for $72.64. hmmmmm. (Auto Express) does say "Top quality replacement OEM parts" It's the "replacement" part of the statement that may be suspect.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

bad69cat said:


> Is that an actual Honda block or a clone?


Its replica but scratch that idea as I didnt realize that OEM Honda GX270 block is only $82 and it comes with the $6 oil seal. 

Honda Engines 12000-ZH9-405 - CYLINDER ASSY. (STD) : CyclePartsNation Honda Parts Nation

part number is 12000-ZH9-405

Edit: Just saw Jrom's post. 

Confirm the part number first using your serial and model number through the following link. 

http://peparts.honda.com/powerequipment#/browse/sb/hs/hs928


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

wow thats a great price for the oem block. just make sure it is the block made for equipment built by honda. honda ope uses all metric bolts and threads in the engine when its built by them, there universal engines use sae bolts for compatibility reasons


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

An OEM block for my 828s GX240 at boats.net is $480.51...bizarre!


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

jrom said:


> For that price, it can't possibly be an actual. If it is, that would be a money making source.
> 
> *Wait, I take it back boats.net has an OEM block for $72.64. hmmmmm. (linked site: Auto Express) does say "Top quality replacement OEM parts" It's the "replacement" part of the statement that may be suspect.



Not to mention shipping is fixed $8.95 for orders 50~100 :wavetowel2: 

Even if OP was to go with option 1 of welding the hole shut it would cost him at least $50~100 easy not to mention that the block might have to be stripped regardless in order to do the weld work, that makes option 2 a no brainer.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

One redeeming fact in your favor is that the major cracks around the drain do look like they originated while the plug (or extension pipe) was being turned CCW.

I can't tell from the photo; but are those lines on the base of the block to the left of the drain just scratches, or are they additional hairline fractures ?

Did the engine have many hours on it while the plug was functioning as a good sealing plug . . . . because it definitely does look like it was cross-threaded at some point ?


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## Seat7A (Dec 9, 2014)

bad69cat said:


> Is that an actual Honda block or a clone?


It's an actual Honda block. I bought the machine new. It has fewer than 5 hours. I'm the one at fault her for continuing to remove the drain plug when I felt some resistance. That said, if it was cross threaded at the factory when installed perhaps that makes me only half as stupid.


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## Rob711 (Feb 5, 2015)

Did u puke right there? Or the second time u walked in the garage. That sucks!


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I wonder if they had some type of thread lock or sealer on the plug thinking that side would never be removed?


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Back in the seventies I picked up a Subaru station wagon that needed a nose and windshield to repair, but before I got to go over it, we had freezing weather, and the motor to find out had water instead of antifreeze. I put a bunce of alumaseal into the radiator, and with a puttyknife filled the major cracks with liquid aluminum and the motor ran fine for years after. I'd JB weld the crack and retap the threads...no biggie.....


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

I say try the JB weld route, but have a plastic drain plug at hand (another dipstick perhaps). I would put the JB around the threads of both surfaces and then screw it in. If that doesn't hold tight get the new block and make it a spring project. But then you're half way to the Predator 301cc engine and you could probably sell parts off your old (new) Honda engine, so it may all be awash.

Not much help now, but in the future when changing oil you might want to just make a little trough out of some flashing or sheet metal to direct the oil past the wheels. I don't know why they design things how the do, just to make them compact for assembly I guess. My Honda mower has to be tipped sideways to drain. I only do it when the fuel tank is drained.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Seat7A said:


> It's an actual Honda block. I bought the machine new. It has fewer than 5 hours. I'm the one at fault her for continuing to remove the drain plug when I felt some resistance. That said, if it was cross threaded at the factory when installed perhaps that makes me only half as stupid.


 
Sorry _ I was refering to the $70 one they posted? Just wondering if it's a China made knockoff - but I don't think Honda would allow them an exact replica..? IDK? They certainly pattern many engines just like it for sure! I don't know where the draw the line at..... I am surprised they have been doing it this long honestly. Curious as to the answer and how the fit was if that's the case?


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## Paul463 (Nov 4, 2014)

I'd weld it if it was mine. I wouldn't even strip the engine. Drain it out, flush the case out with carb cleaner, blow it out dry, turn the thing upside down and tig it up. But that just me.

Keep in mind if you JB weld it and it leaks, anyone you hire to weld it afterwards is gonna hate you.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

What did you end up doing with it :confused2:

.


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## cprstn54 (Feb 19, 2014)

Seat7A said:


> How hosed am I? I cracked the aluminum engine casting on my nearly new HS928 while trying to remove the oil drain plug. Photo attached. Is this repairable or am I looking at a new engine? Photo attached.


I'm with the JB Weld crowd, assuming there is an accessible second drain on the other side. Even if there is not, you can change oil like it was a boat inboard - by sucking it out of the fill tube.

Flush out the crankcase with Coleman fuel or gasoline (no smoking), then irrigate the cracked area with acetone, blast with compressed air until dry and ladle on the JB.

I once had a BSA 650 and the SAE90 tranny oil kept migrating into the engine oil tank (dry sump). No repair shop could fix it. I took off the right side cover and removed the gear cluster, filled it with mineral spirits and pressurized the crankcase. Sure enough, air was seen bubbling up in the tranny well through a porosity in the alloy casting. A layer of epoxy over the porous area solved the problem.

Ken C


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## malba2366 (Jan 2, 2014)

If it is under warranty....put the bolt back in, take it to the dealer and play dumb.


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## nZone (Feb 19, 2015)

malba2366 said:


> If it is under warranty....put the bolt back in, take it to the dealer and play dumb.


It's always someone else's fault. :icon-shrug:


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## bcrome (Jan 26, 2014)

looks bad if the dealer wont stand behind it I would not junk it I would J.B. weld it and run the **** out it. I seen people put worst cracked cases together and they ran for ever, I would however fill that hole side and use the other side for the oil drain.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

bcrome said:


> looks bad if the dealer wont stand behind it I would not junk it I would J.B. weld it and run the **** out it. I seen people put worst cracked cases together and they ran for ever, I would however fill that hole side and use the other side for the oil drain.



I doubt JB or for that matter any epoxy will hold up over time. The problem with epoxies applied to metals is they have a huge difference in temperature coefficients.....different expansions over temperature which will break the surface bond over time.

As mentioned by others, I would just drain the oil, flush it blow dry and get it welded. Total cost should be under $30-40.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

Locating someone who can do aluminum and magnesium welding can be difficult; but once you locate such a person in your area, you'll find an abundance of projects which otherwise would have been discarded . . . . kind of like a BlackSmith.


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