# Deluxe 30 EFI Issue



## swcheese (Jan 4, 2017)

I just got it, and I installed 2 18W Cree LED's W/ Rectifier and the problem I am having is that as soon as the machine gets under load, with the lights on it starts to run really rough like its choking off, but there is no choke. So im wondering if the lights are drawing too much power from the alternator and since it's fuel injected, the electronics are sensitive to that? Do you think removing 1 of the lights would make a difference? Thanks for your time and knowledge in advance!


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

You're going to have to experiment around with removing one of the lights to see if it will work. I don't think anyone here has ever had that issue before.


----------



## swcheese (Jan 4, 2017)

Yeah, I spoke to a tech and it seems that the OEM headlight draws 20 Watts and I was drawing 36, so Im going to remove 1 light and see what happens


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

swcheese said:


> I just got it, and I installed 2 18W Cree LED's W/ Rectifier and the problem I am having is that as soon as the machine gets under load, with the lights on it starts to run really rough like its choking off, but there is no choke. So im wondering if the lights are drawing too much power from the alternator and since it's fuel injected, the electronics are sensitive to that? Do you think removing 1 of the lights would make a difference? Thanks for your time and knowledge in advance!


I guess you didn't try disconnecting the lights while it was giving you trouble?
I may be way off base, but I can't see a second light causing the engine to stumble because of loading on the alternator. I can however, see the alternator not being able to supply enough current to run two lights. Have you got heated grips on that machine? If so, try turning them off to see if that makes a difference. 

20W = 0.026 HP and and 36W = 0.040 HP approx. I believe yours has a 306cc engine rated at 14.5 FT/LB torque which translates roughly to 10 HP, or 7600 W. should have plenty of power to spare.


----------



## swcheese (Jan 4, 2017)

It does have heated grips but I wasn't using them at the time. I spoke with an Ariens tech and he thought that since it is fuel injected the electronics and fuel pump might be sensitive to not enough current. That said, this am, when under load and it started to stutter I shut the lights off and it cleared immediately. This was repeatable over and over. My next option is to disconnect 1 light and see if it will still stutter with just on light on under load. Luckily we have an other big storm commin Sunday into Monday!


----------



## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

swcheese said:


> It does have heated grips but I wasn't using them at the time. I spoke with an Ariens tech and he thought that since it is fuel injected the electronics and fuel pump might be sensitive to not enough current. That said, this am, when under load and it started to stutter I shut the lights off and it cleared immediately. This was repeatable over and over. My next option is to disconnect 1 light and see if it will still stutter with just on light on under load. Luckily we have an other big storm commin Sunday into Monday!


Sounds like you nailed the problem. If the EFI electronics are powered by the same source as the lights, the voltage is likely dipping when you hit a load, since you have excess load on the alternator and its too low for the electronics to operate properly. 

You MIGHT be able to add one of the lights to the heater circuit which might be AC voltage, but you would need to add a rectifier to the light. See if you can find out the power rating for the grips, and the power rating for the supply voltage for that circuit. 

I added heated grips to my 18 watt alternator, but threw in an extra switch so I could run either grips OR light, not both because it just doesn't have the output power to do both. I also tapped the power from my alternator BEFORE the diode on my output lead so I get full wave AC power for the grips and light,, instead of halfwave DC which is just a waste of half of the power output. Grips work great, and since I try to avoid blowing snow in the dark, I don't miss the light.


----------



## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

I would get a volt meter on there and see what happens.


----------



## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I've been trying to get to the bottom of the electrical specifics of a light coils output capacity and what happens when you go over it. I been contemplating all this for my led upgrade on my Honda HSS. In my case I have the luxury of an on board battery.

My thoughts are that if the light coil produces say 15volts and 20 watts @ 3600 rpm... And you have 36 watts of total lights. The alternator will provide the wattage draw of the lights but at the expense of voltage. These alternators do not have voltage regulation like a generator does.

So the alternator provides the 36 watts but only at 9-10 volts. The LEDs may require 10 volts minimum which is what I found is common. Now you load the engine and RPMs drop to 3300 rpm. Now the alternators output voltage drops to 7, and the Electrical loads go haywire..

I'm not an electrical engineer but I know enough about home generators and that when you go over their rated wattage, voltage drops, and sensitive electronics suffer the consequences.

Definitely get a voltage meter on there and check back.


----------



## Strato (Aug 6, 2016)

I also have an EFI machine (Platinum 24). Personally, I wouldn't do anything that might affect the electrical load.

The electrical circuit for EFI is carefully construed. With a CPU in there, and sensors for barometric conditions, engine temp., load on the machine, etc., you have an advanced piece of technology.

Without full knowledge of the circuits involved, and the effect of increased electrical draw, there's a risk of compromising the system, or damaging parts.

If you're good with electronics, perhaps you can figure all this out. 

My wife's an electrical engineer, and she says without schematics and a wiring diagram (showing all parts and their values), it's not easy to predict the effect of adding additional electrical components to a system.


----------



## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

GMorning Strato & swcheese, Would you guys mind supply me the model numbers from your machines?? I have not run into these EFI machines yet, but have a great interest in them...... Any EFI system relies heavily on electronics. They are extremely sensitive to voltage variations, ESP A/C voltage, which will make the computer go haywire. EFI relies on digital signals, (on-off) and need clean DC only voltage. Any A/C leakage into the system, will cause problems. It's obvious that the lights have caused a problem, but it's not yet known if it's a supply problem or A/C leakage. If you test the voltage, I'd be interested in knowing the DC & AC voltage readings, if you don't mind, and the cut-off voltage when the engine performance suffers (as in, disconnecting 1 light have an effect, or both). Do these EFI systems use batteries for starting? On-board batteries can be used for starting, but just as important, the battery will act as a capacitor, to help filter out any AC voltage. That's why I'm asking for model numbers on the machines, as I'd like to download the wiring diagrams. To stay ahead of the curve, as well as satisfy my curiosity. 

Thanx in Advance, jay


----------



## Strato (Aug 6, 2016)

JayzAuto1 said:


> GMorning Strato & swcheese, Would you guys mind supply me the model numbers from your machines?? I have not run into these EFI machines yet, but have a great interest in them...... Any EFI system relies heavily on electronics. They are extremely sensitive to voltage variations, ESP A/C voltage, which will make the computer go haywire. EFI relies on digital signals, (on-off) and need clean DC only voltage. Any A/C leakage into the system, will cause problems. It's obvious that the lights have caused a problem, but it's not yet known if it's a supply problem or A/C leakage. If you test the voltage, I'd be interested in knowing the DC & AC voltage readings, if you don't mind, and the cut-off voltage when the engine performance suffers (as in, disconnecting 1 light have an effect, or both). Do these EFI systems use batteries for starting? On-board batteries can be used for starting, but just as important, the battery will act as a capacitor, to help filter out any AC voltage. That's why I'm asking for model numbers on the machines, as I'd like to download the wiring diagrams. To stay ahead of the curve, as well as satisfy my curiosity.
> 
> Thanx in Advance, jay


Hello Jay:

The EFI Platinum 24 Model: 921053

For what it's worth, the EFI feature constantly amazes me.

My old blower (a 10 horsepower MTD) had ample power, but would always bog down under heavy loads. I could feel the engine labor when I hit sludge.

Whenever the EFI engine encounters a heavy load (such as EOD cement), rather than bog down, it does the opposite. It becomes ferocious. The CPU assesses the load in real time, and delivers more fuel to the 369 cc engine.

As a result, even if I have the power dial on maximum, the engine just kicks it up another notch, and increases RPM. It refuses to back down from anything.

Today we received another 8 inches of snow, on top of the 18" we received on Thursday. I decided to cut a new path to an out-building where I have my generators stored. Hence, the Ariens EFI had to cut through 200 feet of 26 inch, dense, heavy snow. No problem at all. The machine just devoured the stuff, and threw it 50 feet.

I could happily live with a "normal" blower, without EFI, and a smaller engine. But, every time I feel the horses roar on this machine, and see that long arc of snow, it brings a smile to my face. :biggrin:


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Keep testing the machine for another few years and I might then purchase one with fuel injection


----------



## Strato (Aug 6, 2016)

GoBlowSnow said:


> Keep testing the machine for another few years and I might then purchase one with fuel injection


Happy to! 

I'm not too worried about EFI "stabilizing" as a technology. It's been around long enough in the OPE industry. Ariens has used EFI on their lawn tractors for years.

However, a few things designed by Ariens DID require time to mature; like Autoturn, and their remote chute system on Platinum and Pro models.

IMO, the chute system could still use some work.


----------



## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

I'm pretty impressed, as that is a real deal system..... The only thing I question, or more specifically, don't like, is the power supply system. It only has a small 7.2v (?) battery supply the power?? It appears that they are using industry standard 5v reference circuits. But has a separate Charger?? How often and how long to charge that battery? From my understanding, the on-board battery supplies the sensor voltage, but the engine alternator powers the actuators? And uses 120 vac engine starting?? Too bad they just didn't install a 12v tractor battery for starting and EFI operations. Then use the Alternator for charging. It would help with additional lighting also. But I like the on board diagnostics too. Pretty cool. Looking forward to reviews as they get more use. And can't wait to get one in. 

Thanx Guys. Jay


----------



## swcheese (Jan 4, 2017)

Jay, the model # for mine is 921049
Latest update.... since the output of the alternator is 20 watts, which I was told by an Ariens tech, I removed one of the lights and yesterday put the machine through its paces with 20+ inches of snow. I burned through 2 tanks of gas and the machine ran flawlessly, I gotta say I love how the electronic governor deals with changes in load. It is seamless, with no real drop in RPM, and in 40 mph winds I threw the snow as high as I could and it literally disappeared! actually had fun! So, for those of you who have an EFI model, they do indeed seem to be pretty sensitive to extra electrical draws on the system. Luckily, many of the LED options out there come in 18watt versions, which, for me, works great! Also, FYI, don't bother trying to get Ariens to answer any questions, I have tried on 3 occasions to ask questions on their support tab and it appears they pretty much reply with the same canned response regardless of what your question is. Again, thanks for all of your input!


----------



## Strato (Aug 6, 2016)

JayzAuto1 said:


> I'm pretty impressed, as that is a real deal system..... The only thing I question, or more specifically, don't like, is the power supply system. It only has a small 7.2v (?) battery supply the power?? It appears that they are using industry standard 5v reference circuits. But has a separate Charger?? How often and how long to charge that battery? From my understanding, the on-board battery supplies the sensor voltage, but the engine alternator powers the actuators? And uses 120 vac engine starting?? Too bad they just didn't install a 12v tractor battery for starting and EFI operations. Then use the Alternator for charging. It would help with additional lighting also. But I like the on board diagnostics too. Pretty cool. Looking forward to reviews as they get more use. And can't wait to get one in.
> 
> Thanx Guys. Jay


Ariens says the battery will remain charged with even just occasional use throughout the winter. I bought the blower last fall, and have never had to charge it.

But, in the off season, there's a small charging cord which they suggest you plug-in to the CPU overnight about once every 3 months. Not a big deal, for the benefits of EFI.

I met the Ariens team at a landscape trade show in Boston a few months ago (our company sells landscape audio). They told me the battery for the EFI sensors will last at least 5 years. They also told me that EFI is the "wave of the future" for OPE, and we'll soon see more Ariens blowers with this technology.


----------



## swcheese (Jan 4, 2017)

The other feature that I like is the fact that is has a throttle. Both my previous blowers just started and ran wide open until you hit the kill switch. Now if I get a call or want to shovel a little I don't have to shut it off, just idle it down.


----------

