# Using strong acid to remove seized wheel on axle?



## numb3rs (Oct 25, 2021)

Hi guys. New member here.
I have a Toro snowblower that have 1 wheel that is seized on the axle. I tried penetrating oil but it is not budging. I don't have access to any heating source but I work in a chem lab and have access to very strong Acids and Bases. Have anyone tried acid to remove stuck parts before?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I would imagine corrosive products might damage the wheel or axle ????

You can pick up a Mapp torch but to use it once, would not be cost effective, maybe borrow one?


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## numb3rs (Oct 25, 2021)

Oneacer said:


> I would imagine corrosive products might damage the wheel or axle ????
> 
> You can pick up a Mapp torch but to use it once, would not be cost effective, maybe borrow one?


ya I don't know anyone who has one and I am not confident handling flames as handling acids.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Well, if you are working around acids for a living, you should have knowledge then of the effects of acids you work with on rust and surrounding metals ... I say with that knowledge, try it ... at least you know the working effects, precautions and outcomes of those materials in action. Probably more then most of us wrencher's in this forum.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

numb3rs said:


> Hi guys. New member here.
> I have a Toro snowblower that have 1 wheel that is seized on the axle. I tried penetrating oil but it is not budging. I don't have access to any heating source but I work in a chem lab and have access to very strong Acids and Bases. Have anyone tried acid to remove stuck parts before?


How old is the blower?
What kind of acid are you thinking about using?
Hydrochloric? Phosphoric? Sulfuric? 
All these are used in rust removal formulas. Which I don't know the formulas, but I don't think they would be used straight alone.
I think I would stay away from using Nitric acid, it has violent reactions. 
The problem using acids is how are you going to apply it? I would think that you have to soak it somehow? Submerged?

What kind of penetrating oil did you try?
I would try BB Blaster, let it sit overnight, reapply, let it sit again.

Or like mentioned, borrow a heat source somehow.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I would also imagine you would have to be careful with any contact to the aluminum gear case or any brass bushings as well .......


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

I've seen sulfuric acid strip the chrome off some lab equipment in a violent, heat-producing fashion. After that happened, I've always been wary of using strong acids. " Do what you oughtta, add acid to water." is a mnemonic to describe how to dilute a strong acid without problems.


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## numb3rs (Oct 25, 2021)

Big Ed said:


> How old is the blower?
> What kind of acid are you thinking about using?
> Hydrochloric? Phosphoric? Sulfuric?
> All these are used in rust removal formulas. Which I don't know the formulas, but I don't think they would be used straight alone.
> ...


It is probably made in the 80s. It is a Toro 824 with drum style auger.
I have access to all of them. I'm thinking of using HCl, probably diluted to 15%. Like lenetrating oil, I can pipette it around the seized surface, wait for it to eat away the rust, and repeat for it to reach deeper.

I tried liquid wrench, similar brand to PB blaster and it doesn't do much.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Years ago I hauled all kinds of acid in a tanker truck, hated it, nasty stinky stuff!
So I moved on to hauling solvents and alcohols, much safer. 

I use this stuff, I think it works great.
Non toxic, you can soak something and reuse the dirty stuff for a while.
It does dissolve rust very nice.
Pour this in and let it sit.









Evapo-Rust™ Rust Remover - 1 Quart


Amazing deals on this Evapo-Rust 32Oz at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.




www.harborfreight.com


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## Beanhead (Oct 17, 2021)

I had a wheel stuck on my simplicity, I went a different route when penetrating fluid didn’t work.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I love it when someone uses good old common sense, or here in New England, its called Yankee Ingenuity ... 

All the blowers that come through my way, I only had one stubborn one where a wheel was stuck by rust, and that still came off relatively easy ... 

Now augers, well I had a Craftsman that was a nightmare ... when I got that all repaired, with new gears and impeller shaft, my new neighbor bought it, still running great.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Wow WOW WOW Beanhead, I love that idea. I made a homemade puller with a similar idea but using angle iron and threaded rod.


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## phendric (Oct 5, 2021)

numb3rs said:


> ...I work in a chem lab and have access to very strong Acids and Bases. Have anyone tried acid to remove stuck parts before?


I have not. But I'm _very_ interested in seeing how this turns out. Please let us know what you try and what the results are!



numb3rs said:


> I'm thinking of using HCl, probably diluted to 15%.


That sounds decently sensible. Since you work in a chem lab, I don't feel a great need to lecture you on how to handle chemicals safely; others here already have anyway.  (_I loved my college chemistry labs..._)



numb3rs said:


> It is probably made in the 80s. It is a Toro 824 with drum style auger.


I'm not a snow blower expert; are parts still available for that model? HCL should dissolve the rust, but too much might also eat away at the axle. Can you get a replacement if things go really wrong?


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Numb3rs - What about Oven-Off or similar oven cleaner?

The wheel may have plastic business or a plastic ring, there may be some aluminum, acid will dissolve those.

This is why many of us buy tools, have tools, to use on the occasional.


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## numb3rs (Oct 25, 2021)

I got this idea from this video: 




I need high conc acid since other envirosafe rust removers will not cut it for reasonable amount of time.


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## nbwinter (Jan 18, 2021)




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## Beanhead (Oct 17, 2021)

From watching the video your acid Idea should work, the axle shaft is smooth no threads to really lock it down. best of luck removing the wheel. Let us know how it turns out.


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

Yes, could you take photos of the process? It's an interesting experiment!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

interesting ... little nut in a jar is not the same as a large wheel rust welded on an axle on a machine, or an auger rust welded on an auger shaft. would be nice to see attempts made on larger stuff, and the process involved. 

I would think maybe at least for the auger unit, you could bring it to a place that strips large stuff like car frames, etc ... and drop it in there vat of stripper ... probably damage some aluminum, brass, or gaskets for sure, but you would probably free the auger ...


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

If you want to try an acid, my strategy would be to tip the blower over so the stuck wheel / axel is pointing straight up. Then I would find a rubber or clear vinyl hose that fit snugly around the welded in hub of the wheel. Then pour the acid into the hose and let gravity assist you in your experiment.

I would also recommend collecting up everything you might need to contain the resulting mess before hand. Speedi-dry, baking soda, rags, tarp to protect your concrete or asphalt driveway, water for washing away spillage and what not. Whatever happens, I am sure the acid will leave evidence of the procedure.

Picture or it didn't happen as they say.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I would think the acid solution would destroy any rubber hose ?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I am curious to see how one would attempt it though .......


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i think it would be interesting to see how it turns out but i personally wouldn't hold my breath but worse case scenario you would just have to replace the axle/rims which would kind of suck since they are 7/8 shaft instead of 3/4" like most others. i think the older mtd's and craftman rims with the plastic insert may be 7/8" hole on the rims without the plastic insert the rim an tires are usually much taller than the stock toro tires.

also what part of Ontario are you from?


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

> I would think the acid solution would destroy any rubber hose ?




Batteries used rubber cases for decades before molded plastics took over. I think it will survive the limit time period that the OP may be subjecting it to.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Really .... I never saw a rubber battery .... hmmmm


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

Reproduction 6vt rubber cased battery


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

i woulds also say try starting with the right tire(the one under the gas tank). my rational for that is i believe once you get that rim off you can unbolt the left bushing after dropping the bottom pan and take the hole axle/rim out of the machine which might make working on the other side easier.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Oneacer said:


> Really .... I never saw a rubber battery .... hmmmm


Bowling balls were hard rubber at one point as well . . . might just have not recognized it as rubber due to the hardness.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

tadawson said:


> Bowling balls were hard rubber at one point as well . . . might just have not recognized it as rubber due to the hardness.


Yeah, I still have one of those... But new ones are serious high-tech with an asymmetric core (many different styles) and an outer shell made of Plastic, Urethane, Reactive Resin, or Particle (Proactive) .


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## gogi (Aug 12, 2021)

numb3rs said:


> Hi guys. New member here.
> I have a Toro snowblower that have 1 wheel that is seized on the axle. I tried penetrating oil but it is not budging. I don't have access to any heating source but I work in a chem lab and have access to very strong Acids and Bases. Have anyone tried acid to remove stuck parts before?


Before you go that route please get some acetone and some auto trans fluid cheap stuff.mix 50 50 and I guarantee you it will do a better job then any store penatrating oil.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Let me provide a different approach. Acid is hard to control and may casuse unwanted damage. Tip the machine on its side so gravity will help draw in the penetrating oils. According to Project Farm Liquid wrench is pretty good. Also getting higher ratings is Free All and Sea Foam penetrating oil. A twisting motion is usually the best way to break the rust bond on a round shaft to get things moving. With Penetrating oil time and heat cycling are your friends. Let it sit over night and if you can borrow a Map torch heat it up and quench it with water. Repeat. The thermal cycling can break up the rust bond. See if you can get a chain style pipe wrench around one of the augers (or the opposite wheel) to hold it and then twist the frozen wheel back and forth.... Also, Hitting the wheel hub with a piece of wood and small sledge (~3 lb) can help move things. Just keep at it rotatiing through all the motions...... and be patient. Good luck


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

if you do turn the machine on its side make sure to drain the oil first or you will have oil draining out the crank case vent onto the ground.

also don't forget to drain the gas lol


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

I think its a bad idea. First, you cannot control where the acid will go if you use it in sufficient quantities to do any good. Second, the acid will corrode anything it touches. There is a reason why acid is not widely used for this application - it will not be as reliable or as safe as using the tried and true methods.

While I am all for experimentation and thinking outside the box, you cannot seriously believe that nobody has thought of this before and you are the first. Rust and corrosion have been a problem for steel components for years and the best way to separate frozen components has been to soak them with penetrating oil or heat.

You can buy a propane torch for around $13 and a cylinder for $4, mapp gas will run a few dollars more. If you are not willing or cannot invest in basic tools, how are you going to do routine maintenance on your power equipment?

Something else occurred to me. If you work in a chem lab, you or the folks you work with should have a better answer to how acid will behave on rusted steel components. Does your employer mind you taking/using a strong acid for your own personal projects?


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

you guys worry too much. if the guy is chemist that deals with hazardous chemicals he likely knows what he is playing with. now whether it works or not is a completely different story. now 1 issue i could see is if acid is in the cotter pin holes it could make them even sloppier especially once the rust is no longer holding the rim to the axle and that slop usually annoys me and you feel it pretty much every time you turn the machine.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

numb3rs said:


> Hi guys. New member here.
> I have a Toro snowblower that have 1 wheel that is seized on the axle. I tried penetrating oil but it is not budging. I don't have access to any heating source but I work in a chem lab and have access to very strong Acids and Bases. Have anyone tried acid to remove stuck parts before?


no, but I'm interested how it works.


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

crazzywolfie said:


> you guys worry too much. if the guy is chemist that deals with hazardous chemicals he likely knows what he is playing with.


My guess is were he a chemist, he would know exactly how the acids would react on the rusted metal and would not be asking us here. @Oneacer nailed it in his post #4. Our friend also mentioned he has access to strong acids and bases, the latter won't do much so why mention them? He also did not sound sure about the dilution (post 8) - a chemist would know exactly what strength to use or he would do a few tests to decide. He does sound like he knows how hazardous acids are, but not their applications.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

deezlfan said:


> If you want to try an acid, my strategy would be to tip the blower over so the stuck wheel / axel is pointing straight up. Then I would find a rubber or clear vinyl hose that fit snugly around the welded in hub of the wheel. Then pour the acid into the hose and let gravity assist you in your experiment.
> 
> I would also recommend collecting up everything you might need to contain the resulting mess before hand. Speedi-dry, baking soda, rags, tarp to protect your concrete or asphalt driveway, water for washing away spillage and what not. Whatever happens, I am sure the acid will leave evidence of the procedure.
> 
> Picture or it didn't happen as they say.


I would think application with a syringe controlled volume and location would be safer.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

WrenchIt said:


> My guess is were he a chemist, he would know exactly how the acids would react on the rusted metal and would not be asking us here. He does sound like he knows how hazardous acids are, but not their applications.


i don't know about that. he is asking if anyone has tried it before? it is no different than other members asking if you have tried a certain penitrating oil or type of grease or oil for a gear box. if someone has experience then they may have some helpful suggestions on how they work or don't work. since i doubt anyone on here has tried it i doubt anyone really has any good info or experience on this subject. like i already said i personally think it would be interesting to see someone try it out and see if it actually work but that is me.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

I just think there are better ways to do it than playing with acids that will remove base material, paint and may do other damage. Not to mention the personal safety issues. It is not clear what he really has done so far other than using some Liquid wrench. I have done this a few times and what I have outlined above has always worked. If the OP invests a few bucks into a hand torch, pipe wrench or two, a 3 lb sledge hammer he will be well equiped to get this removed and add some tools to his collection.

I am open to learn new technics but this seems like an idea that came up only because he does not have many tools and has access to acids from his work place. I have used acid to remove surface rust from insilde of steel gas tanks. I would empty the acid a couple of times a day and see how much rust remained. It never removed all of the rust before it ate a pin hole in the steel. In this case you are dealing with a blind surface. You can not look in there and see if the acid is actually getting to where it is needed and where it is removing material. And you may still likely have to beat it with a hammer and twist back and forth it to get it off before it eats too much material.


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## jherbicide (Oct 14, 2021)

gogi said:


> Before you go that route please get some acetone and some auto trans fluid cheap stuff.mix 50 50 and I guarantee you it will do a better job then any store penatrating oil.


I second this. It works so good, a company sells the very mixture at a very high margin...









Amazon.com: Kano Kroil Penetrating Oil, 8 ounce liquid : Automotive


Buy Kano Kroil Penetrating Oil, 8 ounce liquid: Engine Oil - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> I just think there are better ways to do it than playing with acids that will remove base material, paint and may do other damage. Not to mention the personal safety issues. It is not clear what he really has done so far other than using some Liquid wrench. I have done this a few times and what I have outlined above has always worked. If the OP invests a few bucks into a hand torch, pipe wrench or two, a 3 lb sledge hammer he will be well equiped to get this removed and add some tools to his collection.


you can say similar things about using torch. you are definitely removing the paint when taking a torch to it and if you don't remove the valve stem core before torching the rim you could also end up with a pretty deadly explosion. there is risk either way and either way he could possibly destroy the rim/axle or hurt himself.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

Where's that poster of different ways to remove a stubborn bolt? I don't recall acid anywhere on that poster.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

crazzywolfie said:


> you can say similar things about using torch. you are definitely removing the paint when taking a torch to it and if you don't remove the valve stem core before torching the rim you could also end up with a pretty deadly explosion. there is risk either way and either way he could possibly destroy the rim/axle or hurt himself.


OK....I did not get into all of the weeds but I still stand by what I said, there are better ways than using "a strong acid".


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

aa335 said:


> Where's that poster of different ways to remove a stubborn bolt? I don't recall acid anywhere on that poster.


Because maybe there is not any.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Ya OK... let's hold up on that crucifixion for just a little while.

Advice has been dispensed, thanks for the input all.

If the OP melts his machine and or himself/they arrive in China in liquid form... well, not much we can do.

Steady on. 🍻


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## Davalanche (Jan 4, 2021)

Try Evapo-rust....


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Davalanche said:


> Try Evapo-rust....


That is what I said, non toxic safe to use. And it won't harm other things.
Turn the machine on it's side and pour some in, let it sit over night.
I have worked/hauled many types of acid.
Just thinking about them make me itch. 

And as a side note, everyone should pull his/her wheels off and lube them up once and a while.
That goes for the augers too.
Mine is over 20 years old, I never had the problem of frozen wheels or augers by maintaining them.
I would say a lot of blowers never get any type of maintenance.
Some will buy them and use, park till the next season then use. You can only do this so many years before they have problems.
Then.........it is just toss and buy new.


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## Bob O (Oct 16, 2020)

I have used an oxalic acid solution to remove surface rust. Oxalic acid is often marketed as wood bleach. Applied in solution with an eye dropper to the affected area may be of benefit. Interested in learning what you do, and the outcome.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

I will agree that a 50-50 mix of acetone and ATF is one of the best working solutions for things like this. Something else I've seen used (but never did myself) is electrolysis. You would have to do a fair amount of disassembly and fit up a tank but I've seen many severely rusted machinery parts that came apart after spending some time in an electrolysis tank.
I've had a couple of wheels severely rusted on before. A good penetrant along with a Mapp torch got all off but one. That one I finally gave up on and got out the cutting wheel. Cut the rim off the hub then split the hub to the axel so I could get at it with a hammer and chisel in the cut and it opened it up enough to finally get the wheel off the axel. I had some spare wheels so it was a simple task to clean up the axel and slide them on.


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

I've watched crews disassembling rusted pieces on industrial machinery, and their weapon of choice is consistently Kroil. I've used PBBlaster, readily available from places like WalMart, but none of the common local products seem to do as well as Kroil.

I do use the atf-and-acetone to soak stuck things, where the acetone thins the ATF so it will go into tighter places by capillary action. The acetone part flashes off, hopefully leaving the ATF to do a little lubricating. But neither of those blended ingredients actually attacks rust and reduces it, while Kroil does.

A large 3-legged gear puller, with chains instead of the outer arms/hooks, chains looped around the wheel and bolted together, is a handy way to put tension on the joint as the Kroil makes its way in. Give it a day, then add a little more tension on the gear puller, and a couple bumps on the puller bolt with a large brass mallette will shock the tension-loaded joint to beak things free.

If you do heat the wheel at the axle, wrap the wheel itself in a wet towel. As others suggest, remove the shraeder valve in the stem while you heat. You'll repaint part of the wheel but save the tire and stem. Heat it fast, before the axle can get too hot.

Good luck!


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## numb3rs (Oct 25, 2021)

ok so I tried it with 18% HCl. pour a little on the groves between the wheel and the hub. I put a plastic bag to prevent evaporation. Left there for 1 day and change the acid and left for another day. didn't seem to work. It's getting colder so I just put the wheels back to the snowblower. I might try again next year with more volume + incubation time.

Also this Toro you can just unbolt the bushing and the wheel axle just slips right off


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Sure looks like someone beat the bejesus out of that rim.... that will surely make things more difficult.


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## Beanhead (Oct 17, 2021)

Thanks for following up with that, always good to hear how a project is going.


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

numb3rs said:


> ok so I tried it with 18% HCl. pour a little on the groves between the wheel and the hub. I put a plastic bag to prevent evaporation. Left there for 1 day and change the acid and left for another day. didn't seem to work. It's getting colder so I just put the wheels back to the snowblower. I might try again next year with more volume + incubation time.
> 
> Also this Toro you can just unbolt the bushing and the wheel axle just slips right off


Since you can remove the wheel/axle assembly, now you can simply use a hydraulic press to push the axle out of the wheel. You will have to support the wheel near the axle on the back and use a short rod so that you are not doing any more damage to the wheel (where someone pounded on it w/ a big hammer). Forget the acid. As I said, there are reasons why everyone uses penetrating oil and/or heat.


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## KJSeller (Nov 3, 2021)

I had a craftsman blower and I could not remove one of the wheels. Tried a three jaw puller but it was distorting the rim. As I got the one rim off, I found a video on youtube how to slide the shaft out the other side of of the blower. Then I used a 10 to press and a socket extension to press the shaft out of the wheel. Was a pain but worked. Then before I put it all back together used a wire wheel to clean off the rust and used anti-seize on the shaft. Needless to say I sold the blower a few weeks ago. Can you try that?


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## numb3rs (Oct 25, 2021)

Oneacer said:


> Sure looks like someone beat the bejesus out of that rim.... that will surely make things more difficult.





KJSeller said:


> I had a craftsman blower and I could not remove one of the wheels. Tried a three jaw puller but it was distorting the rim. As I got the one rim off, I found a video on youtube how to slide the shaft out the other side of of the blower. Then I used a 10 to press and a socket extension to press the shaft out of the wheel. Was a pain but worked. Then before I put it all back together used a wire wheel to clean off the rust and used anti-seize on the shaft. Needless to say I sold the blower a few weeks ago. Can you try that?


Ya I don't have that many tools around my house. Point is I'm trying to minimize the cost as I can get the acid for free.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

numb3rs said:


> Ya I don't have that many tools around my house. Point is I'm trying to minimize the cost as I can get the acid for free.


And your a Lab Technician? So you like experimentation?


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## Beanhead (Oct 17, 2021)

Do you have a maintenance department where you work? They may let you use a couple tools. At my last job they let me bring in an atv swing arm with the shock and the stuck axle and use there 80 ton press. Just a suggestion.


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## KJSeller (Nov 3, 2021)

Since you are learning towards using the acid, then go for it. Just make sure you have protective equipment on and protect the other areas that may come in contact with this acid. Good luck and let us know how it goes.


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