# How Big is Too Big ???



## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

Just floating this question out for comment as I am considering buying another machine.

I have been armchair shopping Toro Powershift Blowers in my area . . . there seems to be a steady supply and demand for those machines.

I have been focusing on 24" wide models, but there are also a few 28" models offered once in a while. This machine will most likely be garage kept, so I'll have to get it out between 2 cars as needed. My prior/current machines have all been 21-24" wide, so they barely fit between the cars.

I am assuming the 1132 (32" wide) models will be too wide to keep in a garage shared with cars. Just wondering if a 28" might be manageable and what others have experienced in buying a bigger machine than the common 24" models.

Options are in the PowerShift series are:


824 (8 hp 24")
1028 (10 HP 28")
1132 (11 HP 32")
I think the 1028 has a slight power advantage over the other 2 models in terms of HP vs. width. Just wondering if it would be too wide to get out of the garage. BTW - my garage is a bit undersized in width . . . only 20 feet vs. the more typical 24 ft. (2 feet more in depth though . . 20' x 26') so I typically have a bit more space at the front of the cars for the blowers.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

I can tell you what I ran into and experience somewhat related here. When I picked up the Searsasaurus it was a 10HP 32" wide 3 stage. It was too wide to get through the garage access door and barely fit between the house and the fence going from the backyard to front yard. It was a tight squeeze to get between the vehicles too without risk of paint or body damage. I liked the HP, condition etc of the unit, just not the width. I found a 26" auger assembly that fit it, rebuilt and repainted it and swapped out the 32" for a 26". That fit through the doors, between the house and fence and between the cars much better. It was the best solution available and I went for it.


For me, that was the best solution. I think unless you planned on some auger housing changes, 28" would be a stretch if it fit through the doors, otherwise 26" and below would be a better choice for most IMO.


My 2 cents.


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## topher5150 (Nov 5, 2014)

how big is your driveway?


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I've had a couple of 824's and one 1028. I prefered the 1028 only because of the Briggs engine.....in my experience the Briggs has more oomph then the Tec's...and I've never seen a Briggs with a hole in the block, though I'm sure there may be one around somewhere. That said, the powershift is unmatchable on the EOD piles.....mine all sucked with wet snow, but an impeller kit is all they need.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

I would find a wäy to make the 28 work
myself i wanted a 30 inch width
sold the 32 inch woudnt fit down the ide of the house
the 28 i bought is tight turning the corner outback
glad i didnt get a 30 now
still have the st824 its perfect for the back and side
still want a 36 inch beast though


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Due to only needing to blow a 90 ft narrow walkway and a short 1 car parking spot I was hoping to get a 22 or 24 inch but had to settle for a 826. Would rather the 24 with the 8hp all things equal. 

I can't imagine needing anything bigger than a 26 inch unless one had over a 90 ft. long and wide driveway.

I guess there is a "how small is too small" question too.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I didn't read the other responses, but here's my thoughts. I have two criteria, how many passes do I have to make, and can I move this thing around to places where I have to move it. In and out of the garage and such.

A lot of what I do is sidewalk, so I make 2 passes, one going down, one coming back. So the sidewalk is 36 inches or so, so no matter what machine I had, I'd still have to walk down and back. So the 24 inch is plenty.

My driveway is 25 feet wide. That's 12 passes with a 24 inch. A 28 inch is 11 passes, hardly a difference. A 32 is 10 passes. a 36 is 9 passes. 

So the question is, is it worth 3 passes on the driveway to have to deal with a 36 inch monster? I can barely get the 24 inch in and out of the garage behind the cars, into the shed, etc... It's just a monster to move around where I'm at. Now, if I had one of those beautiful shops some others around the country have, like the 30x50 shops, it wouldn't be a problem, my shed is 14x12 with two 30 inch doors that open from the middle. 

At my dad's house, he has a narrow sidewalk around the side that we use an Airens 20 inch on , because any bigger is a hassle. 

I live in a place where the homes are on 75x100 lots, so it's not all that much real estate to do, so the 24 is fine for me. 

if I had more to do, I may have gone bigger.


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

if u can get big... bigger..... biggest motor for a small bucket that would probably suit ur needs, unless your blowing needs are for a huge area, but storing it should be part of the equation when buying


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## RickDangerous (Mar 27, 2017)

This thread badly needs some pictures of some monsters lurking in peoples garages...


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## vinnycom (Nov 6, 2017)

RickDangerous said:


> This thread badly needs some pictures of some monsters lurking in peoples garages...


cant fit my baby in the garage, so its here instead


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

You can see from my signature the machines I have. You've been on here for awhile and have posted often on here, you know your situation better than any of us, where you store it, the spacing, and what you are comfortable with.

The 32" is out of the question.

I like a 28" for the width but it is a heavy bulky machine, and I have a 27" and a 29", both 10hp. I have a 24" with a 5hp Tec, I have a choice of a 8hp Tec or a 212 Predator to put on it, I'm going to Predatorize it because the engine is lighter than the 8 and it will be more maneuverable. Up to now I've been using a 5/22 Ariens and one of the bigger machines. I'm going to miss the smaller 22" .

My recommendation for most is always a 8/24" or 212-240cc OHC/24" . I think it has the best power ratio. A 28" has a lot of snow going in to it. If it was a 8/26, I'd say go for that.


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## Money_man (Feb 16, 2015)

I have a 30" cut John deere and tbh it is big. However it eats as much snow as I can fill the housing with. It's sometimes hard to manhandle though. Maybe get a 24" with a 254cc or bigger. My neighbour has an ariens with that setup and it's pretty awesome. Here's some pictures of my beast.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

size matters......


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

You can speak best to how easy a machine will be to move around in your garage. But it sounds like 28" may be pushing it, if 21-24" barely fit between the cars. 

I've had an 8hp 26", 8hp 24", and now 10hp 24". I figured that for our storms, the high-power, narrower-bucket would help in deep/heavy snow. And it does, I'm happy with my current machine. 

But it has since occurred to me that a little wider bucket lets you take a bigger cut, with lighter snow. And if the snow is heavy, you can always take a narrower cut for subsequent passes, to avoid overloading the engine. So now, for my garage and driveway, something like 10-11hp and 26" sounds pretty good. Still a manageable size, but powerful. Yes, I know, no one uses hp any more. Mine 10hp is 318cc OHV Tecumseh, so my preference would be around that engine size, or larger. My 8hp was a 318cc L-head Tec.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

If a storm is coming you could put your car in first then put the blower behind it


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> You can speak best to how easy a machine will be to move around in your garage. But it sounds like 28" may be pushing it, if 21-24" barely fit between the cars.
> 
> I've had an 8hp 26", 8hp 24", and now 10hp 24". I figured that for our storms, the high-power, narrower-bucket would help in deep/heavy snow. And it does, I'm happy with my current machine.
> 
> But it has since occurred to me that a little wider bucket lets you take a bigger cut, with lighter snow. And if the snow is heavy, you can always take a narrower cut for subsequent passes, to avoid overloading the engine. So now, for my garage and driveway, something like 10-11hp and 26" sounds pretty good. Still a manageable size, but powerful. Yes, I know, no one uses hp any more. Mine 10hp is 318cc OHV Tecumseh, so my preference would be around that engine size, or larger. My 8hp was a 318cc L-head Tec.


that 318cc ohv was rated at 11.5 as well tt was never 11.5 but a very strong 10 hp with 16 ft lbs trqe good engine


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

69ariens said:


> If a storm is coming you could put your car in first then put the blower behind it


I have three feet between the 2 doors, I leave mine there, but pull the cars all the way up so I can sneak it out between the garage and the back bumper


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

topher5150 said:


> how big is your driveway?


sorry for the lack of attention to my thread . . .

Driveway is short . . . 2 cars wide and 2 cars long. I also do about 150 feet of sidewalk and partially clear the back yard for access to the rear of the house.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for the replies so far . . . It sounds like a 30" (or more) would be out of the question to share a garage. 28" might be manageable. :t09015:

Of course the point may be mute for a while . . . our 12+" of snow is pretty much melted from the 50+ F degree day and rain storm.

It's like a re-start of winter, so not sure when the next snow storm might be rolling around.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

Wensday


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Money_man said:


> I have a 30" cut John deere and tbh it is big. However it eats as much snow as I can fill the housing with. It's sometimes hard to manhandle though. Maybe get a 24" with a 254cc or bigger. My neighbour has an ariens with that setup and it's pretty awesome. Here's some pictures of my beast.


Great looking machine. Love the colour.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

our drivway is 60 feet long and 26 feet wide. we have a 150 foot 36 inch sidewalk by the road and a 40 foot 36 inch sidewalk by the house. I have an old cub cadet 26 inch machine with an 11hp honda clone and it is perfect for my needs.


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)

Anything you can't handle or can't store is too big. Bigger is better (HP) in most cases. You'll be gad you did when we get a foot of heavy wet snow.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Well said. Extra power is just about "free" in terms of machine size, and weight. And it might let a high-hp 24" machine clear in 3rd gear, vs a moderate-hp 28" machine clear in 2nd, using made up numbers. But the overall clearing time might be similar, and the 24" is easier to store, and move around.


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## Money_man (Feb 16, 2015)

Forget what I posted before but if I bought a new machine today it would be a 24" with a 254cc+ engine. The current is a 30" cut with a 342cc so power isn't everything. This will eat and throw snow with no issues with a full bucket.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

my 1032 Craftsman


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

My 924 series Ariens with newer 10 hp Tecumseh, 32 in bucket , impeller kit, and newer taller chute.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

soory...here is Bertha


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## ZTMAN (Jan 11, 2018)

Bertha with a Honda back up, nice


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Hondas are worth too much money to actually use. That one got sold for $1200 two days before our so called blizzard last month. The Hondas are great machines, but expensive to fix and a lot of money tied up that a $300 blower can do the job way cheaper.


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## FlamingSpaghetti (Jan 8, 2018)

For me, I prefer smaller buckets with larger motors. I find that 8 to 10 horsepower with a 23 to 24 inch clearing is optimal. This is preferred for me because I can get in between tight spaces and still have plenty of power to do things quickly. I had used a 26" at one point but I feel the difference of two inches for one pass is not really that important to me. I also don't mind if it takes an extra pass or so to clear some snow as I enjoy doing it and the MTD machine I've been using for the past several years is easy enough to move and operate. That's my personal opinion. I don't think I'd ever own anything 28 inches or bigger.


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

I have a large driveway that parks 16 cars, long sidewalks that are 54" wide. I'll be outside over an hour on a 6" storm with the former machines. So I bought the widest machine offered by Ariens.
I do the same storms now in less that 40 minutes. Plus I don't play at the end of the driveway. I go thru it like light snow which gets me inside a nice warm house faster.

On a 18" storm, it will be 1 1/2 hours because I can't run behind the blower. I must slow it down so the machine can keep the RPMS up.

All in all I'm really happy I got the 36" bucket. On light snow it's great to finish up faster!


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

I have both a 24 wide machine and a 32 wide machine. Now I do not keep them in a garage, however from the standpoint of using these machines, I would say both machines have advantages and disadvantages. A machine that is 24 wide can get into most tight spots without any issues and a machine that is 24 wide and powered with an 8 horsepower (318cc) engine is the perfect combination and really moves snow very well and can handle very heavy snow very well. The downside to a 24 is if you have a very large area to clear or use them commercially it will take longer to clear vs a 32 wide. A 32 wide machine is great when you are using it where you have a large property and drive where you need that extra width to clear the area faster and commercially to get each driveway done as fast as possible. With a 32 wide machine you can nearly clear a sidewalk in one pass, on the way back you catch the last 8 inches or so and done, the disadvantage to a 32 wide machine is tight spots, they can be a bit cumbersome and if you want to keep it in your garage you would need a good size garage, I keep my machines in a shed so that is not an issue. A 32 wide machine is matched well with a minimum 10 horsepower (358cc) engine or up. (I am using Tecumseh's as the example because the HM80 and 100 came out in 1973 and were used on machines all the way to 2008 when they went out of business. The average lifespan of a Tecumseh engine is 40 years. My Snapper is was built in 2002, the machine is 16 years old now, however has been worked very hard commercially the last 12 years and the Tecumseh HMSK80 on it is a workhorse, still going strong and I see no reason why it should not go another 20 years easily. My experience with Tecumseh Snowking engines has been great. They are very reliable, powerful engines that are easy to start in the winter and IMO the best winter engine's that were ever built. Yes I have heard stories of connecting rods that snapped and blow a hole into the side of the block. (It happened to my 1971 Tecumseh H70 engine 3 years ago at age 44). So that engine went 44 years before it finally gave up). The medium frame 8 and 10 hp Tecumseh L heads are very strong engine's and were Tecumseh's best line of engines built IMO. Older Briggs L head winter engines built during that time period, were always more difficult to start in the cold winter. The newer Briggs OHV winter engines also have their own issues. One issue in particular that has been shown with these, is the metal pin attached to the camshaft holding the compression release mechanism breaks off, that is one issue that has been brought up recently, where the compression release mechanism on the camshafts of a Tecumseh have never had an issue like that. So every engine has its own problems, but in general Tecumseh as well as Briggs both made excellent engines, particularly during the era of L heads (back than the saying was Briggs for Summer, Tecumseh for winter that was well known among many people who ran machinery on a regular basis). Now getting back on topic of the actual size of the carriage of a machine. Ariens builds a 36 inch wide and that is as large as they go. That makes sense for most walk behind snowblowers because anything larger than that, is just too large and you run into issues where the machine is simply to big to deal with most areas such as walkways. MTD makes machines with buckets as wide as 45 inches. IMO those machines are just simply to large and even with the largest snowblower engine available a 420cc you just would not have as much power taking the snow in and tossing it vs an Ariens that is 36 wide with the same powered engine. So I think Ariens engineers got it right when they decided that 36 inches would be as large as they would go. 
Again having both a 24 and a 32 wide machine is perfect because I can deal with almost all scenario's with machines at those two sizes and do so commercially. My father had a Jacobson snowblower, it was an imperial 626 from the 1970's, it was built very similar to the Snapper I have now and that machine was also an excellent machine with a reliable Tecumseh H60 and was 26 inches wide and worked very well.
I think if you wanted to get the best of both worlds with a snowblower, a machine that is 28 inches wide and has an engine that is out least 358cc (10 horsepower) would be perfect. It would clear faster than a 24 wide machine and is not too large and would be able to fit in most garages no problem.

Photo: Snapper 24 wide 8 horsepower Tecumseh
Ariens 24 wide with its original 7hp Tecumseh engine (now has Predator 212)
Ariens 32 wide with the Predator 212 (capable of running at 4400 rpm which gives it the power of a 10 horsepower) both Ariens are the same machine's just different size buckets and tires (Ariens machines have taller chutes now)


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Wow, a 212cc on a 32" machine? That's an awfully big bucket for the engine size, the 4400 RPM notwithstanding. Did you go to a smaller pulley, to help increase the engine's "effective" torque? 

Mine is 10hp (318cc OHV Tec) on a 24" bucket. I like the combination. A 26" bucket wouldn't be a bad size either, of course, for the engine. I *would* like to put a somewhat larger impeller pulley on the engine, to increase the impeller & auger speed, to help it process snow more quickly.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> Wow, a 212cc on a 32" machine? That's an awfully big bucket for the engine size, the 4400 RPM notwithstanding. Did you go to a smaller pulley, to help increase the engine's "effective" torque?
> 
> Mine is 10hp (318cc OHV Tec) on a 24" bucket. I like the combination. A 26" bucket wouldn't be a bad size either, of course, for the engine. I *would* like to put a somewhat larger impeller pulley on the engine, to increase the impeller & auger speed, to help it process snow more quickly.


Nope everything is all stock and the 32 wide machine throws snow neck and neck with the snapper. 
Here are two video's I made showing how powerful this machine runs and how much faster the auger and impeller turn now compared to the old stock engine.
The second video shows my 24 wide throwing a little bit of snow to give poeple an ideo of exactly how powerful the Predator 212's run.
Eventually I would like to make a video clearing an entire driveway. But typically both Ariens machines throw the snow 30 feet high and 40 feet away from the machine and they devour the snow. I've been using the 32 wide with that Predator commercially 3 years now with the engine running at 4400 rpm, no issues. Its a beast.
In the first video you can skip to 3:00 minutes to getting directly to me starting and running the 32 wide.
In the second video skip to about 4:50 to get to me throwing snow with the 24 wide.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> Wow, a 212cc on a 32" machine? That's an awfully big bucket for the engine size, the 4400 RPM notwithstanding. Did you go to a smaller pulley, to help increase the engine's "effective" torque?
> 
> Mine is 10hp (318cc OHV Tec) on a 24" bucket. I like the combination. A 26" bucket wouldn't be a bad size either, of course, for the engine. I *would* like to put a somewhat larger impeller pulley on the engine, to increase the impeller & auger speed, to help it process snow more quickly.


If you have a 10 horsepower Tecumseh (HMSK100) its a 358cc. The 8 horsepower HMSK80 is a 318cc.
Snapper used to make an 8/26. Than during the last generation the series 6 Snappers 8 horsepower models came with 24 wide buckets. Then during the series 6 they offered the 26 wide bucket with an engine rated as 9 horsepower (but it turns out the 9 hp Tecumseh is the same as the 8 hp Tecumseh 318cc) So it really still was an 8/26.
During the last series they still offered the 10/30 which came with a Tecumseh 358cc 10 horsepower and they offered an 11/30. The 11 horsepower Tecumseh was different than the HMSK100 but I still think it was also a 358cc. Its weird because I think they had an 11 horsepower that was only a 318cc, but I don't see how that could be an actual 11 horsepower because the HMSK100 which was the 358cc was a true 10 horsepower. But Tecumseh also offered a 12 and 13 horsepower OHV engine that was also 358cc but I've never had the opportunity to run one of them so I do not know how much more power the OHSK120 and 130 were compared to the HMSK80 and 100.
The Predator 212 is rated as about 7 horsepower at 3600 to 3800 rpm, but when run those engine at 4400 rpm, the power torque and horsepower goes up significantly. That's another reason I like the Predators, they are capable of being run at much higher rpms safely than most other engines which makes them very powerful engines.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Money_man said:


> Forget what I posted before but if I bought a new machine today it would be a 24" with a 254cc+ engine. The current is a 30" cut with a 342cc so power isn't everything. This will eat and throw snow with no issues with a full bucket.


That's exactly the size machine I wanted to buy new. I had read that Toro had an 8/24 but apparently they're rare on the ground so had to get the 26 inch.

I built a new garage a few years ago, about 18 by 28. The wife filled it up with left over and discarded household junk in 12 months flat. I can just get the blower in there now. Not happy.


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## FearlessFront (Aug 18, 2016)

barney said:


> That's exactly the size machine I wanted to buy new. I had read that Toro had an 8/24 but apparently they're rare on the ground so had to get the 26 inch.
> 
> I built a new garage a few years ago, about 18 by 28. The wife filled it up with left over and discarded household junk in 12 months flat. I can just get the blower in there now. Not happy.


Tell me about it, their is never enough space. Stuff always builds up and you could always use more space. Story of my life.
I wish I had a garage.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

FearlessFront, very cool! I hear a ton of good things about the Predator 212cc, especially the hemis. I kinda wish I had an application where I could try one. I don't actually want to lose my engine, of course, but if someone handed me a nice machine with a blown engine, that would be a kinda fun project. 

I think it's great you can crank up the RPMs. I do wish the 301cc Predators were cheaper, and had a wider following, with more info available online. But at $240 vs $99, they clearly aren't as appealing a value proposition. Their extra displacement should help give them more oomph, if they are built similarly to the 212s. They sound like a really nice solution, especially for wider buckets. 

My engine is a OHSK100 (318cc OHV), Tecumseh rated it at 10hp, but I don't know how it compares to other 10hp engines. It seemed more powerful than my HMSK80 (318cc flathead) 8hp 24" Ariens when compared in the same storm, but it admittedly wasn't a night-and-day difference. I have since replaced the 10hp's governor spring, so now it sags less under a load, improving the "perceived" power. 

I know Tecumseh used the same displacement and listed several different hp ratings, even for a given engine style (flathead or OHV). But I don't know if maybe there were different connecting rods for different compression ratios, or other differences that aren't obvious.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> *I do wish the 308cc Predators were cheaper, and had a wider following, with more info available online. But at $250 vs $99, they clearly aren't as appealing a value proposition. *Their extra displacement should help give them more oomph, if they are built similarly to the 212s.


That's a surprisingly large price difference for just an extra 96cc. Makes one wonder why the price is so much more.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Indeed. Maybe they give an extra-low price on the 212cc to help move more of them? Make them the volume seller. 

I did edit my post to fix the displacement to 301cc, and price to $240. Sorry, I did that too late for your quote. 

The 212cc seem much more popular, with dynomometer test results, lots of upgrade kits, etc. The 301cc seems a bit of a black sheep, by comparison, I couldn't find much info. I'd like to know if the 301cc can handle similar RPMs, say 4000-4500, without upgrades. That could make it kind of a beast, based on 50% more displacement than the 212cc.


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## dwgray (Jan 14, 2018)

If your talking wide open spaces there aint no such thing. You can haul a small load on a big truck but you can't haul a big load on a small truck. More power is better up to the point of breaking things because of it. Only you know the limiting factors.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

Well, I answered my own question . . . sort of. I got an 824 PowerShift, so staying with a 24" bucket. I did considered a 26" (PowerMax) and a 28" PowerShift, but ended up getting an 824. 

Power-to-width factor is pretty decent @ 0.333 HP/inch.


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