# Ariens 10 HP 32 " cut hard starting and wants to bog down under load



## bondobrian (Mar 9, 2013)

I have a 16 or 17 year old 10 HP 32 " width machine.Tecumseh motor .
PROBLEMS :
Hard starting have to use the electric start and keep choking it and then turn off choke, but it takes around 20 tries before it stays up to speed. Next problem once up and running she runs fine until it sees a load and then it almost stalls until I back of of the everything to let it catch up.
New Spark Plug capped.
New original Tecumseh Carburetor.
Fresh high test fuel with stabilizer.
Checked flow to carb with hose off carb plenty of fuel.
I am stumped, does anyone have any ideas ?


----------



## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Hi bondobrian,
Welcome to the Forum. Your problem could be any of a number of things. Simplest would be a leaned out carb. If you have an adjustable high speed jet on the bottom of the float, try opening 1/2 turn which is clockwise looking at your machine or counter clockwise if you are standing on your head. Try that and let us know if it behaved any differently. MH


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Brian 

It's always helpful if you add in the blowers and engines model numbers. Might want to think about adding that to your signature.

I think Motorheads pointing in the right direction with the carb being lean. Is it an adjustable carb ??


----------



## enigma-2 (Feb 11, 2014)

Ever check the valve clearance?


----------



## bondobrian (Mar 9, 2013)

Hey guys i very much appreciate you input !
The machine is an ariens 1032 Model 924084 Ser # 006525
Engine Tecumseh HMSK100159119T 4342R
I have not checked the valve clearance or compression I will try the carb adjustment firs and then go from there !
Thank you again for the input.
bondobrian


----------



## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

bondobrian said:


> I have a 16 or 17 year old 10 HP 32 " width machine.Tecumseh motor .
> PROBLEMS :
> Hard starting have to use the electric start and keep choking it and then turn off choke, but it takes around 20 tries before it stays up to speed. Next problem once up and running she runs fine until it sees a load and then it almost stalls until I back of of the everything to let it catch up.
> New Spark Plug capped.
> ...


high test has no advantage for small low compression engines. it actually has less explosive force in it, than regular low octane. 
the engine may have a weak ignition coil. they will drive you nuts.
also check the kill switch, make sure it's not shorted to ground.
go over the head bolt torque, I bought a Cadet 268 and it came in running, but with a blown head gasket and loose head bolts.
make sure the fuel filter or outlet petcock in the fuel tank is not blocked.
also make sure there isn't bad fuel in the tank, that picked up water, or ice frozen in there.


----------



## gto4evr (Feb 6, 2015)

greatwhitebuffalo said:


> high test has no advantage for small low compression engines.


I'll have to differ on this ONLY because of the area in which I live (Buffalo NY). Around here, high test = no ethanol. No other way to get non-corn gas around these here parts so in our case, there IS an advantage!


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

The point is premium in a stock snow blower engine doesn't have any advantage in it's operation.
Ethanol free gas is worth hunting for and if mid or premium is the only way to get it, go for it.

The point was that oxygenated premium doesn't have any advantage to oxygenated regular gas.


----------



## gto4evr (Feb 6, 2015)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> The point is premium in a stock snow blower engine doesn't have any advantage in it's operation.
> Ethanol free gas is worth hunting for and if mid or premium is the only way to get it, go for it.
> 
> The point was that oxygenated premium doesn't have any advantage to oxygenated regular gas.


Frog, I got it originally....I just suck at using the smile face things to convey that I was half serious about the it. ? On the high test, same goes for using it in today's newer FI car engines, your not getting anything out of it unless again, you're eliminating the evil ethanol if it's actually REAL gas which has an additional effect of stretching mileage by a bit since ethanol isn't as efficient. I envy the states that haven't caved in to the conspiracy concerning ethanol like they have around here.


----------



## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

back in the old days when people used to buy "dry gas" and pour it in the gas tank of their cars, all dry gas is, was alcohol. it absorbs water. 
problem is now it's a permanent part of the gasoline, and they subsidized the Midwestern farming states to produce corn, to make alcohol from it, to add to all the fuel. 
it's sort of an inside deal scam, feathering of their own nest, etc. with only marginal cleaner burning qualities.
it really all boils down to follow the money. they cut deals in the back room, and one of them was, if they agreed to a somewhat unconventional health care plan, they'd get the alcohol/corn subsidy.
just about everything you see, read, is angled to get you to buy something today, and has a political spin on it.

in regards to octane, higher octane is only advantageous if the engine has a higher compression ratio, allowing it to get more HP from the higher compression, and the way to do that is with higher octane. high compression needs a slow burn to avoid detonation and ping.

if the engine is low compression, the regular fuel will actually make more power, it burns faster. the best bet in a snowblower is use regular and add stabil to it.

I miss the days of good quality gasoline at the gas station. the gas we get today is really crappy in comparison.


----------



## gto4evr (Feb 6, 2015)

greatwhitebuffalo said:


> back in the old days when people used to buy "dry gas" and pour it in the gas tank of their cars, all dry gas is, was alcohol. it absorbs water.
> problem is now it's a permanent part of the gasoline, and they subsidized the Midwestern farming states to produce corn, to make alcohol from it, to add to all the fuel.
> it's sort of an inside deal scam, feathering of their own nest, etc. with only marginal cleaner burning qualities.
> it really all boils down to follow the money. they cut deals in the back room, and one of them was, if they agreed to a somewhat unconventional health care plan, they'd get the alcohol/corn subsidy.
> ...


 GWB - there you go, exposing my bias again! I should have mentioned the compression....with me it's understood with the wall of FI/low compression engines of today since every car I own has at least 10:1 compression (other than my wife's winter car Prius) and is no newer than 1971. I'm OLD school and drive a 69 goat with 10.75:1 comp as a daily driver (except winter). Ethanol 10% is standard around here unless you buy super high test grade that's non-E. You can see/hear the difference in performance plain as day between the two. Don't get me started on the corn subsidies to the corporation farming, that will swing this thread even further off base and probably break some rules as a political rant would soon erupt! 

Sorry for the digression....back to topic!


----------



## enigma-2 (Feb 11, 2014)

greatwhitebuffalo said:


> high test has no advantage for small low compression engines. it actually has less explosive force in it, than regular low octane.


Actually there are advantages if your using Ethanol gas. 

The big problem with Ethanol is that the alcohol can separate out of the gas, causing the gas to burn at a higher ratio than the standard 15%. This will burn the valves & pistons. 

(In small engines such as a weed whacker, it can actually burn a hole in the piston, seen it at my local dealer, has several cases each summer).

The high test will slow the burn rate and help prevent the cylinder heads from getting too hot (at least better than low octane gas).

Local dealer also told me which local stations to avoid (experience talking) and that high octane gas actually helped to prevent the Ethanol (alcohol) from separating. (I didn't ask how). 

Anyway, I buy only high octane from my yard equipment now. Ten cents a gallon extra is no big deal; esp. if it prevents a ruined engine.


----------



## AL- (Oct 27, 2014)

enigma-2 said:


> Actually there are advantages if your using Ethanol gas.
> 
> The big problem with Ethanol is that the alcohol can separate out of the gas, causing the gas to burn at a higher ratio than the standard 15%. This will burn the valves & pistons.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I must admit I personally haven't seen any pistons with burnt holes. Just wondering about others on this forum?


----------



## bondobrian (Mar 9, 2013)

I just wanted to get back to you guys to let you know why the machine was bogging down.
I checked compression 70 pounds, suppose to be 100 !
Removed the head, and found the exhaust valve loose and staying open, also had a clean area on the head that would signify some type of leakage causing that area to be clean.
I then removed the exhaust valve, typical dirty some carbon, wire brushed it cleaned the seat area and lapped the valve in with some lapping compound. Did the same thing to the intake valve. Then I set the intake at .008 and the exhaust at .012.
One pull and it fired up by hand , you could feel the compression while pulling the cord. Ran really nice, I proceeded to adjust the carb. I was able to get a nice idle and then I ran the machine hard for an hour. Ran great. 
Next day I decided to check the compression to see how much it increased !
It did not , it actually dropped to 50 , 55 pounds.
So I checked again with another compression tester same result?
NOW I AM REALLY LOST, SHOULD I PULL THE HEAD AGAIN AND REINSPECT ?

Any input from you guys is always appreciated !


----------



## bondobrian (Mar 9, 2013)

*Additional comments.*

During my test run on some real heavy wet snow it ran extremely well even though the compression was at 50 PSI.
So I need some suggestions.
I was thinking when I lapped the valve and seat I may have been doing it with possibly a bent valve ?
The valve did have some slop from side to side after I cleaned everything off of it. I do not know how much is allowed, probably .002, I am guessing I had .005 to .008 ?


----------



## lee h (Jan 18, 2015)

If it ran really well i would almost say leave it alone but with
50 pounds compression i would think it wouldn't even start.
I have three 10hp 32 inch snowblowers and they pull pretty
hard to start. I use the electric all the time. I just went and 
checked compression on one and it's right at 145 psi.


Lee


----------



## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

There is a compression release that opens the exhaust valve slightly until the RPMs get up a little higher. That could be why you are seeing such a low number.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

If it's starting good and running good I'd forget the compression.


----------



## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

As said above, compression checks with the recoil are very qualitative, need the RPMs from a starter to get a more representative number. Leakdown test is what should really be used for isolating compression loss. 

Sidenote: After a few heating/cooling cycles, go back over & retorque those head-bolts.


----------



## bondobrian (Mar 9, 2013)

Compression release I don't see that any where.
I rarely use the pull start to start the machine especially when it is cold.
But after it has warmed up and runs out of gas I will use the pull start.
I will torque the head one more time when is nice and hot.
And if I fail their I will do a leak down test.
Thank you all for the input I appreciate it.
Bondobrian


----------



## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

bondobrian said:


> Compression release I don't see that any where.
> I rarely use the pull start to start the machine especially when it is cold.
> But after it has warmed up and runs out of gas I will use the pull start.
> I will torque the head one more time when is nice and hot.
> ...


Hey Bondo, allow the engine to cool before re-torquing those head bolts and you'll be good to go!


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

bondobrian said:


> Compression release I don't see that any where.


Do you mean you don't see it looking at details of the engine's internals? It wouldn't be an external, manual compression release, it would be internal, and automatic. Sorry, this is probably old news, but just making sure. 

It sounds like the HMSK100 has an automatic compression release. Google brought me to this thread, which might be worth a read: 
Tecumseh HMSK100: loss of 2/3 of compression - Handyman WIRE - Handyman USA

Why do you think it may have a bent valve? Do you think that one is sticking or something? 

And +1 on letting the engine cool before re-torquing the head bolts.


----------



## Dave C (Jan 26, 2015)

bondobrian said:


> Compression release I don't see that any where.
> I rarely use the pull start to start the machine especially when it is cold.
> But after it has warmed up and runs out of gas I will use the pull start.
> I will torque the head one more time when is nice and hot.
> ...


If you're only getting 50 PSI on the electric starter after setting valve clearances, something's wrong. As with any compression check, make sure the choke is off. Are you sure the gauge is good?

After setting exhaust clearance my Tec engine went from 45 PSI to 150.


----------



## lee h (Jan 18, 2015)

So am i understanding this correctly that all the 10hp Tec's 
have compression releases. Mine got 145 psi with the electric 
start and when trying to start them with the rope they sure 
don't feel like any comp release is there. Especially my Drift 
Breaker that has the standard pull handle not the big D handle.
It will yank the handle right through your fingers and boy don't 
that hurt.


Lee


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Dave C said:


> If you're only getting 50 PSI on the electric starter after setting valve clearances, something's wrong. *As with any compression check, make sure the choke is off.* Are you sure the gauge is good?
> 
> After setting exhaust clearance my Tec engine went from 45 PSI to 150.


Thanks, I was going to mention the same thing. I've read to do compression checks at full throttle, with the choke off. I don't know how much of a difference it makes, but you may as well set yourself up for success, vs risking weird results. 

He did say that he tried another compression tester, with the same results. 

A leakdown test should answer many more questions than a compression test, however, especially with the piston positioned properly so that the valves are hopefully closed.


----------

