# HS80 Removing Augers



## snow80

I broke my first shear pin on my used HS80 purchased 2 years ago.

The right auger stopped spinning. You would think this would be simple, but there was no bolt head and no threaded end sticking out. Both had broken off. I figured I'd remove the left one to look at it. The 6mm nut came off OK, but the pin wouldn't come out. It acted like it was threaded into something. I banged the threaded end to see if it was just inserted (as I expected), but it wouldn't move. I could turn it with the hex head only a few degrees either direction - one direction tightened and one loosened, but it jammed in both directions. I worked it back and forth, applying progressively more force for 10 minutes, spraying with PB Blaster, but finally the head broke off.

To make a long story short, it took a while to realize that the [email protected]#$%^ thing was not threaded. into anything. I had to remove the entire auger shaft, with the auger transmission, put it in the vice and drive out the pin with real force and hammer blows.

OK, so I get them both out after a struggle, but the hole in the shaft isn't quite lined up with the hole in the auger. I'm pretty sure that the auger slides over the shaft. One auger will spin on its shaft (the one that was broken), the other one (that I broke the pin on) is frozen to the shaft and wont' spin at all.

I put a massive gear puller (this thing weighs about 10-20 pounds and uses 1" rods) on the one that spins and put a lot of force on it, pushing the shaft into what I assume is a sleeve on the auger, but it didn't move at all - at least not axially. It became stuck on the shaft, until I banged it back a few times and then it began to spin on the shaft again. (Yes, I removed the bearings from both ends).

Does anyone want to comment on my problems? I was able to drive in a replacement shear pin on both sides, so I can put it all back together and ignore the whole thing, but I want to make sure I didn't miss anything - possibly a second retaining clip of some type? It seems strange that the auger won't come off with the gear puller force I was able to apply, especially since one auger will spin on its shaft. 

While I'm here - to remover the auger shaft required opening the auger gear housing in the middle between the two sides. What type oil goes in there? It looked clean, and I didn't spill any, but I'm sure it's never been topped up or replaced in the last 20 years, and a tiny bit was lost on the cork I used to seal it off while working.

Thanks for any advice.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

Sounds like it is torch time...heat that puppy up sometimes a propane torch works but usually an acetaline torch is what you need...hit the auger that is frozen with the heat....and then try and move it off...make sure the broken off pin is out as well...once the auger is removed clean the auger shaft very well and lube the bageebas out of it with low temp grease.... might want to see what inside of the frozen auger looks like as well and come up with Rube Goldberg to maybe sand and grease the inside of the auger as well...???

Might be a grease packed auger gear housing...not sure of Honda??? Should list in your manual as to whether or not oil or grease??? But you said it looked clean so I would assume Oil(was in there) and since your Auger is frozen on one side maybe it wasn't maintained by the previous owner...those augers without the pin in them should spin freely and if not need to be greased. Check the Shear pins too make sure they are the correct type for your HS-80...can cause big problems...Check your manual once and then twice...


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## Simplicity Solid 22

Actually try this step first....
This was from an expert Mark T. on manage my life.com.

Thank you for your question. 
I am sorry you are having a problem removing the shaft. I recommend soaking the shaft with a product called PB blaster. It is a penetrating product similar to WD-40 but I think it works better. Spray the shaft on each end and let is sit for a few hours. Then do it again. If it does not come loose, you might have to heat the auger with a hotter torch. Once it is red-hot, use large pliers to turn the auger. Once it breaks free, it should come off. After you get the auger off, use emery paper to clean the rust off the shafts and apply a coating of grease to the shaft before putting it back together.I hope this is helpful.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

http://powerequipment.honda.com/pdf/manuals/31738701.pdf

Does not list in here in regards to auger oil...Do you have tracks or wheels??...just wondering not related.


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## td5771

with it all apart soak it with penetrating oil.

your augers are rusted to the shaft. hardest repair going. if you pin it again and ignore it you will blow apart your gearcase. 

all of it will require effort and elbow grease.

with soaking, stand the auger assembly on end and spin the loose auger back and forth on the shaft as you pull it towards the end. it will take a while as you work it through the corrosion. eventually it will come off. heat will help a lot if you have it.

for the frozen side i would let it soak for a while then heat and stand it on end , tuck the impeller shaft between your legs and try to get it to budge trying to rotate the auger on the shaft. once it gets moving...same as the first. just keep working at it.


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## fronos4

Based on the parts diagram there doesn't appear to be anything else holding the auger on the shaft and they "should" slide off. Also, regarding the gear oil I'm sure it'll be fine with the remaining oil in the case, but if you need to top it off or replace it all together maybe there is some useful info in the thread below.

All Years HS80 WA SNOW BLOWER, JPN Honda Snowblower AUGER Diagram and Parts

Snowblower Auger Oil - Bob Is The Oil Guy


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## snow80

Thanks for all the comments.

I have PB Blaster and often use it. I hadn't properly considered the risk of blowing up the cross gears/transmission, so I guess I'm going to have to fix the frozen auger. Thanks for bringing that tom y attention.

If PB doesn't work, I'll use the torch. It's just strange that one auger will spin, but won't slide. It won't even slide 1/16" or even 1/32" AFAICT, but it goes 360 degrees around almost like it's on a bearing. That's what confused me. This is going to be a tough job, but perhaps I can get the second auger to spin, then force in some lubricant to prevent further corrosion. At least that would prevent me from breaking the gears/transmission

The oil in the gear housing seems to be roughly like 90 weight differential oil. Perhaps the dealer has the repair manual with some information on what to use. If not, I'll use one of the oils in the posted link. My oil also seemed a bit silvery/foamy as described in that link.


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## snow80

The edit limit expired, so here's an edited version with additional info:

Thanks for all the comments.

I have PB Blaster and often use it. I hadn't properly considered the risk of blowing up the cross gears/transmission, so I guess I'm going to have to fix the frozen auger. Thanks for focusing my attention on that important point.

If PB doesn't work with a few days of soaking, I'll use the torch. It's just strange that one auger will spin, but won't slide. It won't even slide 1/16" or even 1/32" AFAICT, but it goes 360 degrees around almost like it's on a bearing. That's what confused me. This is going to be a tough job, but perhaps I can get the second auger to spin, then force in some lubricant to prevent further corrosion. At least that would prevent me from breaking the gears/transmission.

The oil in the gear housing seems to be roughly like 90 weight differential oil. Perhaps the dealer has the repair manual with some information on what to use. If not, I'll use one of the oils in the posted link. My oil also seemed a bit silvery/foamy as described in that link.

BTW- I have tracks, not wheels.

Two bits of info for anyone reading this thread.

When I bought it, it would not drive properly. It turned out that a mouse had filled the area above the transmission with grass to make a nest. Lubricants had contaminated the grass, so the drive disk was constantly being wiped and lubricated - leading to slippage between the drive wheel and the disk. Cleaning it up, degreasing the disk and wheel and just rubbing the disk with 3M green scrubbing pad to give it just a light bit of "tooth" solved that problem.

The feet that it sits on (and occasionally scrapes on when moving) were worn out. I welded some steel plates back on to solve that issue.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

Hahaha when I got mine (Simplicity 870) last year I was the proud owner of a Mouse Hotel as well!!! Nice the tracks...


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## snow80

I was able to remove both augers this weekend. The auger that was spinning eventually pulled off with my heavy duty gear puller after it had soaked in PB Blaster for a week. The non-rotating auger had to be heated 'til it glowed red, then the gear puller worked in it also. I put the back plate behind the auger cross support nearest the transmission and pushed the shaft into the auger central tube from the end. I had also soaked the frozen one with PB Blaster and some 50/50 mixed acetone and ATF.

To protect the oil seals I sprayed water at them as I heated the auger shaft/tube with an oxy acetylene torch cranked up high to maximize the rate of heating. Both sides of the internal shaft were in bad shape, but most of the corrosion was on the last 4"-6" of the shaft, so that's where the concentrated heat worked best. It also let me protect the oil seals near the middle of the shaft.

After I got the inner shaft clear, I chucked it in the lathe and found that it was bent about 1/8" in the center. I'm not sure if it was bent when I bought it, if it bent when the auger bent 90 degrees on the ice due to the frozen shaft or if I did it while straightening out the 90 degree bend in the auger blades. 

One of the auger center tubes was also bent. I cleaned the tubes out by spinning 3M green scrubber on a wooden shaft inside them, then rebent everything back to alignment. I used some 1" schedule 80 steel pipe to bend the shaft and some scrap 5/8" steel rod inserted into the auger tubes with the schedule 80 over the protruding end.

There were heavy grooves around one end of the shaft where rotating auger had been spinning on the shaft.

The center shaft isn't perfectly straight, but it's within 3-4 thousandths where it exits the transmission. Even though the shaft is reasonably straight outside the transmission, the transmission housing seems to wobble a bit more than I like when the shaft is turning.

My last issue is that the bearings won't go over the ends of the shaft. The force applied to those ends by the puller must have expanded them slightly. I cleaned them up on the lathe and polished them, but that wasn't enough. The end bearings still won't go over them, so I'm going to have to do it again.

I'm planning on using red axle grease inside the auger tubes to prevent water from getting in there. I may add some grease fittings to the auger tubes so I can just squirt some grease in between shaft and tube each year instead of disassembling.


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## td5771

with the hondas having a premium price and a rep for being high end machines I am very surprised there weren't grease fittings already. or some way to grease it. even most low end machines have them


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## bwdbrn1

Thanks for the update on your progress.


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## [email protected]

snow80 said:


> i may add some grease fittings to the auger tubes so i can just squirt some grease in between shaft and tube each year instead of disassembling.


+1,000


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## snow80

td5771 said:


> with the hondas having a premium price and a rep for being high end machines I am very surprised there weren't grease fittings already. or some way to grease it. even most low end machines have them


Low end machines often have bushings at the auger shaft ends, not sealed bearings, like the Honda. I suspect if you have bushings, grease fittings would be more obviously important to have.

I spun the sealed bearings at both ends of the auger shaft. Despite being right next to the heavily corroded shaft ends, the bearing races were in almost perfect shape and spun easily despite being exposed to the same snow salt environment that the shaft faced.


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## mrbill

*to sno 80*

donyboy on utube has 3 videos on how to re and a honda auger.


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## snow80

mrbill said:


> donyboy on utube has 3 videos on how to re and a honda auger.


Yes. I watched all those videos. He made them for a more recent model than my HS80. I think it was an HS928. I noticed that the shaft was much shorter on that model. It was probably a good design improvement. On the HS80, it's 24" long and goes all the way across the bucket. It's sticking about 12" out from each side of the auger transmission and that entire 12" is inside the auger tube just waiting to corrode. On the 928 he worked on, it looked like it only extended 4"-6" out from each side of the transmission, so there was a lot less distance to push a corroded shaft out of the auger.  That probably makes it much easier to remove if it corrodes up as mine did.


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## HCBPH

*Grease fittings*



td5771 said:


> with the hondas having a premium price and a rep for being high end machines I am very surprised there weren't grease fittings already. or some way to grease it. even most low end machines have them


Actually that's something I've been looking into recently. I've been looking for some 'bungs' I can weld in for zerks, haven't found any yet.

I have an idea for a 'clamp on' adapter that could be used on auger rakes without modification, but it's still in process. If it works, it will use the shearpin hole to work grease down the shaft.

Now for something comparable. I've bought and rebuilt alot of blowers over the last few years and most have had the auger rakes rusted on solid. One I bought last year looked like it had sat in a snowbank for a couple of years - alot of visible rust in the auger housing etc. Yet when I started taking it apart, the rakes spun freely on the auger shaft. When I took it apart I found that someone in the past has smeared the auger shaft with a liberal coating of antiseize prior to reassembly. It worked very well. In the past I've Rustoleum'd the shafts and smeared on alot of grease but this has me thinking maybe there's a better solution if the grease adapter doesn't work out.


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## snow80

I pulled the shaft out again, mounted it in the lathe and carefully took off another thousandth at the ends. The bearings now slip on smoothly. I'm concerned about the bent shaft, though. Basically, the shaft is straight to the gear housing, but makes a right turn just before it enters the gear housing, then as soon as it comes out of the housing, it makes a compensating left turn. The result is that the gear housing wobbles when the ends of the shaft are in their bearings.

My options are:

1) ignore it and hope the oil seals and bearings don't wear too much.

2) try to straighten it with the gear housing still mounted in the center of the shaft. This will be tricky. I really need to grab the shaft in the middle and bend the long ends to align with the middle.

3) Open up the gear housing so I can grab the shaft in the middle to try to make the correcting bends. I'm a bit worried about replacing the gaskets and seals, and/or damaging the shaft inside.

4) Try to make a new shaft. I can reproduce everything I see outside the gear housing, but I'm not sure how the main gear inside is mounted on the shaft. Is it a spline or Woodruff key, or what?


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## HCBPH

*Auger shaft*

If I'm reading this right, the auger shaft is still available. Pricey but available:
Honda 23371-732-010 Shaft, auger

Confirm that's right if you go that route as I just did a quick-and-dirty look.


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## [email protected]

HCBPH said:


> If I'm reading this right, the auger shaft is still available. Pricey but available:
> Honda 23371-732-010 Shaft, auger


Discontinued (2011) part. Just as well, it was list priced at $179.26. 

That shaft was also used on the HS50, HS55, and HS70 models too.


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## snow80

[email protected] said:


> Discontinued (2011) part. Just as well, it was list priced at $179.26.  That shaft was also used on the HS50, HS55, and HS70 models too.


It's nice to know it was used on other models if I have to start hunting for a used replacement. I'm going to open up the gear housing, pull the shaft and see how straight I can get it.


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## bwdbrn1

HCBPH said:


> If I'm reading this right, the auger shaft is still available. Pricey but available:
> Honda 23371-732-010 Shaft, auger
> 
> Confirm that's right if you go that route as I just did a quick-and-dirty look.


I've had those seemingly hopeful links like that turn south real quick when I actually gave them a call. I had a part I was looking for for a lawn mower show up on a motorcycle dealership's web site once, and at a really good price. But when I contacted them, they said they didn't deal in lawn mower parts at all. Only thing I can figure was it was a brand connection through some computerized parts system some how. I've noticed Scrubber City showing up more frequently while doing searches for things. Never had any contact with them, though.


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## snow80

Last night I opened the gear housing. The gasket separated smoothly without damage, so I probably won't have to replace it. The oil seals seemed undamaged from my heating. The bearings were in great shape and slipped right off, along with the spacer and the main gear. The shaft is splined, so I can't easily make a replacement.

I chucked the shaft into the lathe again and ran the dial gauge along it, then rebent it, then did it again, and again and again. After multiple attempts, it was a bit better. At first I tried checking it when held at the shaft ends. Later I put a steady rest at the machined surface near the center of the shaft let the end move around, bending it repeatedly to straighten it. Then I swapped ends and did the same thing multiple times. 

After all this, it was only a little bit better. The wobble was reduced by about a third. It's still worse than I want to accept.

I think I need to hold the shaft by the two machined surfaces at the center (either side of the main gear) and bend the shaft ends until they are in line with the axis defined through those bearings. Trying to hold it at one end and at one of the two machined surfaces wasn't accurate enough. The machined surfaces fit the inner races of the two ball bearings in the gear housing. 

Also, it's very hard to control where the bending happens and how much bend I get. I was getting better after about 30-40 attempts, but I had to take care not to damage the splines or the machined surfaces.

I also cut out two small 3/4" square pieces of Schedule 80 steel pipe to weld onto the middle of the auger shafts. I'll drill through them and tap for the grease fitting.


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## HCBPH

*Options*

I may be considered a heretic here, but I do have another couple of thoughts. 

First off, speaking for myself, I'm not set up correctly or have the tools and skills to accurately straighten something like an auger shaft while other places can. Is this worth considering taking it to a proper machine shop?

Now the next part gets even nuttier. From a couple of model machines I've looked at, many brands use the same auger gearboxes even though installed in different brands (e.g. Murray vs Ariens, etc) so the distance between the impeller shaft and the auger shaft are the same. I wonder if it's possible there's another gearbox out there (including impeller and auger shaft) what with a little tweaking might work in your machine?

I don't know if either would work, but it's at least worth researching/considering if you can't find or straighten your existing shaft.


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## snow80

HCBPH said:


> I may be considered a heretic here, but I do have another couple of thoughts.


I have a good machine shop I can go to, if I need to. But it costs me nothing to try myself. I always learn a bit more for next time. As to alternatives, the HS55 and HS70 seem to have the same shaft. I saw someone selling a machine with busted wheel drive for $100, but it was a 6 hour RT drive. It would be worth it, but I'm just not in the mood - I'd rather play in the shop. 

While cruising craigslist, I found two identical machines to mine, both selling for twice what I paid for mine. Of course, mine's not running now, but it will be. I suspect the remaining bend I have now would be OK, but I'd like to get it closer to straight if I can. Fortunately, this shaft doesn't turn at high speed, so I'm not going to get heavy vibration or shaking damage even if there's some remaining bend.

If I had to, I could probably make a replacement shaft. I have the equipment to make everything - even the spline could be faked with some care. I just need to spend more time figuring out exactly where the bends are located and then plotting the best way to apply an unbending force to put the counterbend exactly in the right place.

Wish me luck.


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## snow80

Success!

The shaft is now straight, or at least 95% straight and much better than before. For those who might have to do this later, here's what I did:

I opened the auger gear housing, removed everything, then replaced the two ball bearings. I set the outer race of the bearings on a flat surface and then spun the shaft, by hand, in the bearings while measuring at the tips to detect the bend. I marked the high sides at the tips and bent the ends down using two 3' pieces of 1" schedule 80 steel pipe. One piece was in the vise and one just slipped over the shaft.

After removing the bearings, I slipped the shaft into the pipe in the vise and then slipped the other pipe over the end so that the joint between them was just outside the machined surface for the bearings. That placed the counter bending at that point. The idea was to leave the section between the bearings straight and bend the shaft just outside that straight section to bring each tip into alignment with the axis defined between the bearing centers.

Tonight I'll install the grease fittings and tackle the gear that rotates the chute (it's a bit loose and tends to jam slightly in one direction.)


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## HCBPH

*Success*

Great to hear you got it fixed. Let us know how it works the first usage.


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## bwdbrn1

Your progress has been great to follow. Looking forward to hearing about the grease fitting job.


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## snow80

bwdbrn1 said:


> Your progress has been great to follow. Looking forward to hearing about the grease fitting job.


I'm thinking I might just drill into the auger tube, tap that hole, run in a bolt with a nut on it, tighten the nut against the outside of the auger tube and braze or weld the nut in place. Then remove the bolt and thread in the fitting. The nut and surrounding weld/braze bead should make a nice boss (as long as I don't accidentally weld the bolt into the nut). I previously thought about using some small pieces cut from schedule 80 pipe to act as a boss, but I think some nuts would work better.


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## HCBPH

*Zerks*

I've been looking for some weld-in bungs to add grease zerks and haven't found any so far. I thought about welding in a nut also but not sure if it might stick in too far and be susceptible to having something catch on it.

My last idea (which I think I will be trying) is to take a split collar and turn the inside opening so it just fits around the shaft of the auger rake. Drill one half of it for a grease zerk. Idea being you want to pull the shear bolts anyway, turn the rake about 1/4 turn so the grease works into the area around the auger shaft, slip that adapter over the shear bolt hole and clamp it with locking pliers and have at it with a grease gun. When done: unclamp it and spin the rake to spread the grease around and put the bolt back. Being I have several blowers, one or two should cover the majority of them.

Just my thoughts.


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## snow80

HCBPH said:


> take a split collar and turn the inside opening so it just fits around the shaft of the auger rake. Drill one half of it for a grease zerk. Idea being you want to pull the shear bolts anyway, turn the rake about 1/4 turn so the grease works into the area around the auger shaft, slip that adapter over the shear bolt hole and clamp it with locking pliers and have at it with a grease gun. When done: unclamp it and spin the rake to spread the grease around and put the bolt back.


I thought about doing something similar by cutting a patch out of the schedule 80 pipe. This inner diameter is close to the outer diameter of the rake tubing, and a small squeeze with the vise would make an almost perfect fit, but I think a nut will work OK, too. I'm not that worried about the threaded base of nut or plate - it's the projecting zerk fitting I worry about. You can't cover it with a rubber cap - it will get torn off in use. It's subjected to corrosion and impact damage. I could just thread a bolt in during use to replace the zerk, then unthread the bolt and add the zerk fitting before using it, then remove the fitting and replace the bolt. However, I think I'll just run it with the zerk installed, watch the fitting and see how it goes. I'll add plenty of anti-seize to the fitting when I screw it in so I can get it out if it gets mangled and won't accept grease..


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## Shryp

Plenty of blowers have zerks sticking out so I am sure you will be fine.


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## snow80

Shryp said:


> Plenty of blowers have zerks sticking out so I am sure you will be fine.


I haven't looked that closely at others - thanks for the info. Last night I put it all together. In an earlier post someone linked to the YouTube three part video of how to repair the auger transmission. If you watch that video, you can see that the auger transmission wobbles - even after the $400 repair. There was a fourth video explaining why (the high speed thrower shaft was bent and the owner didn't want to replace it). My transmission still wobbles, but only slightly and much less than the final wobble in that repaired Honda blower.

I noticed that there wasn't much clearance on one side between the auger and the adjacent wall. Some judicious bending to straighten the sidewall solved that.

I decided I'll leave it all together for a year, disassemble it for inspection and decide then if I want to add zerk fittings and where I want to put them. I'll take a look at some other blowers in the interim to get more ideas. The augers are full of grease and I didn't feel like removing the grease for welding, nor did I feel like disassembling it now that it's together. Perhaps a clamp on grease fitting that feeds grease through the shear pin hole would make sense.

My other task was to fix the problematic cranking of the chute, which jammed in one direction. I disassembled it and realized that there was some grease from the previous owner that had turned to something resembling putty. The putty grease was contaminated with grit/sand/crud. In one direction the chute was pressed down into that stuff and it slowed it down and made it very hard to turn. When cranked the other direction the chute lifted away from the crud allowing it to turn more freely. After using some solvent and a scraper, I removed it all, cleaned it up and then lubricated it with some decent white lithium grease. It now operates smoothly. 

I'm sure that all this work will ensure I get no more snow this year. 
Thanks to all for the help and comments.


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## Shryp

snow80 said:


> I'm sure that all this work will ensure I get no more snow this year.
> Thanks to all for the help and comments.


Well gee. Thanks a lot! You know, some of us have been waiting for 2 years for snow!


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## snow80

Shryp said:


> Well gee. Thanks a lot! You know, some of us have been waiting for 2 years for snow!


So it only took 3 days after the last repair to get snow. It's only a couple of inches, and tada - a shear bolt breaks. That's only the second in the couple years I've owned it, but of course, it previously had one side frozen and the other side was partially frozen until the last breakage when it began to spin.

With only 2" of snow (but thin ice on top) I'm worried this will be a constant problem. I did notice that the clearance between auger and one side is limited. Is that likely to be a problem?

I have seen some threads that comment on the shear bolts constantly breaking. One complained that the holes were too large. One guy allegedly redrilled his shear pin holes. I can make shear pins on the lathe to a slightly larger diameter if anyone thinks that's smart. Or I could redrill the auger tube.

Is it important to tighten the shear pin extremely tight - to sort of clamp the shaft in the tube?


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## snow80

A slightly edited version of the above - I was delayed and ran over the 10 minute edit limit, so I've posted the edited version here. I have a bad habit of rereading my posts and correcting after posting:



Shryp said:


> Well gee. Thanks a lot! You know, some of us have been waiting for 2 years for snow!


So it only took 3 days after the last repair to get snow. It's only a couple of inches, and tada - a shear bolt breaks. That's only the second in the couple years I've owned it, but of course, it previously had one side frozen and the other side was partially frozen until the last breakage when it began to spin.

With only 2" of snow (but thin ice on top) I'm worried this will be a constant problem. I did notice that the clearance between auger and one side is limited. The other side has too much clearance. Is that likely to be a problem? There is a welded nut on the low clearance side that the auger could hit if forced to flex. That's the side that broke its pin. (A related question is if it's possible to move the auger left/right to center in the shell or should I bend the auger blades and/or housing to balance out the clearance? I saw no way to do that other than to put some spacers between the shell wall and the auger shaft end bearing mount bolts.)

I have seen some threads that comment on the shear bolts constantly breaking. One complained that the holes were too large. My holes seem to have some extra slop, also, partly from all the force put on them during attempts to free the augers. One guy allegedly redrilled his shear pin holes at a new point to get clean/smaller holes. Is that recommended? Alternatively, I can make shear pins on the lathe to a slightly larger diameter to fit the existing holes if anyone thinks that's smart.
Is it important to tighten the shear pin extremely tight - to sort of clamp the shaft in the tube?

A last question - the pins I have were Ebay - probably not Honda OEM. Is it likely that the OEM pins are significantly different? I'm going to get some anyway, but wonder about the experience of others.

Thanks to all who share their knowledge.


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## td5771

mine do not use shear pins but I have worked on and sold many. the shear pins must be able to rotate freely in the holes. if you clamp the tube to the auger shaft you are essentially eliminating the shear bolts and locking the 2 together.

too much slop wouldnt be good as the auger would rotate back and forth. they should be a clean fit. shear bolts come in different diameters. as long as you not going too large and weakening the shaft just drill it to the next diameter up.

or use a sleeve on the current ones to take up the space. just us a very soft material like aluminum or brass. did that once with no issues.


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## snow80

The HS-80 shear pins are sort of odd. At least they seem that way to me. I would have expected a constant diameter pin. Instead, they have a large diameter at the head end and a small diameter at the threaded end. The two opposed holes in the auger sleeve that line up with the hole in the driving shaft are different sizes. One fits the larger end and one the smaller end of the shear pin. It could be that one of the two holes has become enlarged. IIRC, the hole in the drive shaft was a good snug fit to the shear pin. I'm not sure about the different sized holes in the thinner auger sleeve around the drive shaft.

If Honda sells different sized pins, I'd need to drill two sized holes to get a snug fit - one for the larger and one for the smaller. It may be easier to just measure the sizes and make a pin on the lathe (once I'm sure that the auger blade isn't hitting anything). Perhaps I could buy a 6mm bolt and make a bushing for the larger hole that fits tightly and allows the 6mm bolt to pass through its center. I could get it pretty snug with less work that way.

Hmmm.


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## HCBPH

*Shear bolts*

On making shear bolts or pins, one thing to remember is the ability for the pin or bolt to break under the right conditions. Too soft and they break premature and too hard and they won't break soon enough (meaning something else breaks instead). Another thing is that the bolts should not be 'tight'. You don't want to bend the tubes in the auger rakes against the shaft, if they're tight then the shear bolts won't be doing you any good.

I personally think that having a little bit of play when you try moving the rakes is probably a good thing vs very tight. That little bit of play might help prevent rust buildup between the rakes and auger shaft, there's nothing worse than trying to get a rake that's rusted onto the shaft off when needed. I can tell you I've had a couple of pair I needed to get off during a rebuild and in one case it took 2-3 weeks of work with a Mapp torch, Kroil, hammers and a hydraulic press to finally get them off.


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## Simplicity Solid 22

HCBPH I hear you there...after a lot of work an PB blaster my Bro in law decided to take a crack at my Snowblower Augers with his brother who is a mercedes mechanic and a former foreman of his shop & well point being he has every tool and clamp and prybar and whatever you can think of...they could not believe how rusted on my Augers were to the shafts. My bro in law took a pry bar I believe to the mouth from snapping back...I felt guilty...but I guess it was his brother's fault...anywho they got it off..they could not believe how much heat it took!!! Said the augers were glowing red. I do believe the previous owner just left it outside uncovered! Seeing as when I originally picked it up last year the Cylinder was frozen and the mouse hotel inside starter housing...

Finally... pretty soon I will be back in action...with new auger gear housing and properly greased auger shafts!!!! 
Oh he said when he got the Auger housing apart the case was filled with just sticky almost like glue...he said it hit the floor and it was insanely difficult to remove. We had noticed this inside the impeller drum before when we worked on it...as in checking auger gear housing damage and inspecting the impeller for damage at the time. We both are still puzzled as to what this is...I was wondering if it was Grease mixed with worm gear oil but he just could not figure as to what it was...he said he never saw anything like it. I just figured previous owner might have packed Auger gearbox with grease and added worm gear oil later down the road. Just interesting to hear I guess. 
So definitely learning about frozen augers 
Learning as I go...fun times!!!


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## snow80

HCBPH said:


> On making shear bolts or pins, one thing to remember is the ability for the pin or bolt to break under the right conditions. Too soft and they break premature and too hard and they won't break soon enough (meaning something else breaks instead).


I understand. I figured I'd start with mild steel and see how that works.



> Another thing is that the bolts should not be 'tight'. You don't want to bend the tubes in the auger rakes against the shaft, if they're tight then the shear bolts won't be doing you any good.


After looking at it closely, I realized it's not possible to clamp it tight. The "large" stepped end of the shear bolt slides inside the large hole in the auger and won't go into the small hole in the shaft. If you tighten it you are just pulling on one side of the tube, not pulling the two sides together. I presume that's why the shear pin was designed that way.



> I personally think that having a little bit of play when you try moving the rakes is probably a good thing vs very tight. That little bit of play might help prevent rust buildup between the rakes and auger shaft, there's nothing worse than trying to get a rake that's rusted onto the shaft off when needed. I can tell you I've had a couple of pair I needed to get off during a rebuild and in one case it took 2-3 weeks of work with a Mapp torch, Kroil, hammers and a hydraulic press to finally get them off.


It didn't take me that long, only a week for mine, along with the torch, gear puller and PB Blaster, but I did wonder if it was ever going to come off.

I found the problem, however. The rakes had bent on one side and were striking the back side of the housing each revolution. The rake was sharp from hitting concrete and was really digging into the back housing. I'm not sure how I missed that when I checked it the first time, but I did. It needed some slight bending to get more clearance. So I'll test again when next it snows.


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## HCBPH

*Rusted Augers*

Here's a thread I put together on a machine where both auger rakes were rusted on solid: Auger Housing Repair/Rebuild for anyone that's fighting rusted augers.
It includes more than just getting the rakes off so you'll have to scroll through it if interested. I put almost every tip I can give in there.

Took some work along with some cussing but I was able to get them off. I've done this a few times and so far every one has been succcessful.

One thing I noticed on one machine I bought last year though was different. Even though everything looked like crap due to being left outside the auger rakes were free on the auger shaft. When I took it apart I found that someone had coated the auger shaft with antiseize before it was reassembled - and it worked! I've painted the shafts and added grease in the past, but this got me thinking there may be something better. Only time will tell if it's a good choice or not but I've tried paint and antiseize on one so far.

Glad to hear you're getting it all back together and working again.


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## snow80

HCBPH said:


> Here's a thread I put together on a machine where both auger rakes were rusted on solid: Auger Housing Repair/Rebuild for anyone that's fighting rusted augers.
> It includes more than just getting the rakes off so you'll have to scroll through it if interested. I put almost every tip I can give in there.


I should thank you for posting that. I looked at it before tackling mine, and it definitely gave me some tips. Although I did a lot of banging and PB Blaster and even some custom ATF/solvent mixes, ultimately, it was the oxy-acetylene and big gear puller that did the job. I think what was great about OA was that it could deliver heat very fast and get the auger up to red hot locally (at the rusted end) without taking so long that heat ruined the oil seals at the center auger transmission. The butane torch just wasn't up to the job.


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## snow80

I decided to upgrade the impeller on my HS-80 by adding some rubber to the thrower blade ends to eliminate the gap between those impeller blades and the housing. To get to the impeller, I needed to remove the auger and with the auger out I decided to repaint the damaged area where I'd heated it with the OA torch. Since I was repainting, I decide I might as well weld in bungs for the grease fittings. So the grease fittings are in and it's almost ready to repaint. 

Of course, the moment I took it apart, the forecast changed to snow


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## HCBPH

Wouldn't mind seeing some photos of what you did for welding in the bungs for the grease zerks. Always good to see what other people do in areas like that.

Glad to hear everything is working out.


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## Rockproof

> Wouldn't mind seeing some photos of what you did for welding in the bungs for the grease zerks. Always good to see what other people do in areas like that.


I second that request...


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## snow80

HCBPH said:


> Wouldn't mind seeing some photos of what you did for welding in the bungs for the grease zerks. Always good to see what other people do in areas like that.
> 
> Glad to hear everything is working out.


Actually, I decided to braze them in. I used a 1/4-28 nut to fit the thread on the zerk fitting. I drilled the hole into the auger shaft sized to be tapped for 1/4-28 (but didn't tap them). The hole was located near one of the auger cross supports, about 1/3 of the way from the end. I chose the location based on whether I could get the drill in there and whether I'd later be able to get the torch in. I wanted it nearer the end than the middle as both augers had the worst corrosion at the ends and I figured I could later add another grease fitting if necessary, or put grease in through the shear bolt hole, if necessary. 

I took a 1/4-28 bolt about 3" long and threaded on the nut well up. Then I ground the bolt to a point. The point forced the bolt to align with the hole I'd drilled. I then clamped the bolt in place - applying force between the hex end of the bolt, axially through the bolt to the far side of the auger shaft. Then I unthreaded the nut until it came into close contact with the auger shaft. I did this a couple of times and did a small amount of grinding to flatten the area around the hole in the auger shaft to match the flat nut. I clamped the bolt clamp to the auger blade to prevent anything from shifting. This gave me decent access for the brazing and went in with an oxy-acetylene torch and brazing rod to finish it up. I broke the bolt loose from the nut while everything was still hot since I used enough brazing rod to get a good seal around the nut and some of the flux and possibly some braze got up on top of the nut - making it moderately hard to get out the bolt. I chose the brazing method to avoid accidentally damaging the small nut or welding in the bolt.

I do hate showing other people my lousy welding brazing skills. 

I'm still working on the impeller mod. I'm going to use three layers of relatively thin roofing material. I think I'll try it with only two opposed blades of the impeller to save work. I can add the other two blades later.

I don't like the designs that have a bolt extending through the blades with the head of the bolt protruding up from the throwing surface of the impeller blade. It looks to me like it will interfere with the throwing. I'm currently planning to use 1/4-20 flat head bolts and angle countersink the heads into the throwing side of the impeller blades so they remain reasonably flat. I saw one design where he welded in studs, but that's a problem-

It looks hard to get the impeller completely out of the blower. I'd have to remove the impeller shaft for welding access as it won't slide off over the gear at the end of the shaft. Plus, you can't easily stud the end bolts as they are at an angle and the backer support plate wouldn't easily go over them without maxing huge slots. I think loose countersunk bolts that I can replace will work as well and are easier for me. (If there's enough room for the countersink access.)

If I get a chance, I'll shoot photos, but no promises. I hope to get the last of the rust off the auger shafts this weekend so I can get them painted.


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## Rockproof

snow80,

I just did a full restoration on an HS80 wheeled unit (if you follow my avatar, you can check out the post I have on that). Once you have the bucket off of the tractor and the augers off of the shafts, its super simple to get the impeller off of the shaft for modifications (one bolt and the impeller shear bolt). SInce I don't know how far you have the unit torn down though, it's hard to say how quick you could get to the impeller. Obviously, the first, and most time consuming step in my opinion, is seprating the buicket from the tractor.


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## snow80

Rockproof said:


> Obviously, the first, and most time consuming step in my opinion, is seprating the buicket from the tractor.


Thanks. I sort of hoped I might get a comment on how hard that job is. 
Right now, I've only got the auger out - 9 bolts, three on each end and the three that close up the auger transmission. Plus, the impeller shear is off and the impeller will slide forward. It gives me pretty good access, and if I need more, I can probably pull one sidewall of the bucket off.

I haven't ever pulled the back half of the bucket. I've had the sidewalls of the bucket off and some of the under chassis to access the rotating disk transmission. That's it.

How much longer do you guess it would take to get the rest of the bucket off? The bolts aren't corroded.
(My HS80 is tracked. It looks like that won't affect it too much - but it's hard to tell.)


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## Rockproof

If it's like my wheeled unit, it's (10) bolts total (3 per side, 2 on top under the belt cover, and 2 on the bottom). I put a floor jack under mine and pulled the wheels off (which made getting to the side bolts much easier).

I'd say 15 minutes to seperate the two. Then you just have one bolt left for the auger/impeller shaft pully and your done (provided you have the bucket sides and augers off). .

The harder part is getting it back together. Lining the first few bolt holes up is a bit tricky. 

When you re-assemble, don't forget to temporarily lock your auger engage handle down (with a zip tie, string, etc) so the pully brake is out of the way. When you seprate the two, take the auger pully belt off of the engine and let it seperate with the entire bucket assembly. There are two small retaing plates under the auger pully which prevent you from doing it any other way (you'll see).

Last recomendation...if you have the coin, install new belts. Keep in mind this is almost the same proceedure you would need to go through one day when you have to change the belts (except you can leave the entire bucket assembled...augers, sideplates...). When I tore mine down, even though the belts looked fine, I put new ones on and kept the older ones as spares.


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## snow80

Thanks for the comments, Rockproof.


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## snow80

We had 3+ feet of snow this last storm. The improvements and repairs worked great. The impeller mod is throwing snow farther. The newly added grease fittings didn't cause any trouble. The only problem is that I broke a shear pin. Now that the augers aren't rusted to the auger shaft, the shear pins actually have to carry a load. I've found that tightening them a bit extra helps. If they are at all loose, the shaft/auger tube shear surface acts like a cutter on them. If they are tightened more securely, one side of the auger center tube is held by friction against the auger shaft and the shoulder/large end of the shear bolt is held tightly against the auger shaft. These friction points tend to prevent or limit the cutting action across the shear surface between center tube and shaft experienced when the bolt is looser.


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## Rockproof

Glad to hear she ran like a top snow80. Although we didn't get 30"s down here in PA, we got enough to know I'm extremely satisfied with my restored HS80. Did you see the short vid I posted?


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## snow80

Rockproof said:


> Did you see the short vid I posted?


No, I didn't. I just did some searching, but I couldn't find it. I'd really like to see it. Is it here or on another site?


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## snow80

snow80 said:


> I'm still working on the impeller mod. I'm going to use three layers of relatively thin roofing material. I think I'll try it with only two opposed blades of the impeller to save work. I can add the other two blades later.
> 
> I don't like the designs that have a bolt extending through the blades with the head of the bolt protruding up from the throwing surface of the impeller blade. It looks to me like it will interfere with the throwing. I'm currently planning to use 1/4-20 flat head bolts and angle countersink the heads into the throwing side of the impeller blades so they remain reasonably flat. I saw one design where he welded in studs, but that's a problem-
> 
> It looks hard to get the impeller completely out of the blower. I'd have to remove the impeller shaft for welding access as it won't slide off over the gear at the end of the shaft. Plus, you can't easily stud the end bolts as they are at an angle and the backer support plate wouldn't easily go over them without maxing huge slots. I think loose countersunk bolts that I can replace will work as well and are easier for me. (If there's enough room for the countersink access.)


I found the threads that others posted to be very useful, so I thought I'd update this one as to what I ended up doing. I really wanted the surface on the impeller blade that throws the snow to be really flat, but I chose another method from what is decribed above.

I did use three layers of 1/16" thick rubber roofing material and an aluminum backing plate bent into an "L" shape. I used contact cement to hold the three layers of roofing material together and make one large piece. I clamped it all in place (only two of the four impeller blades). Then I drilled through all layers (Al backing plate, 3 layers of the roofing material and the 1/8" steel impeller) with a small tap drill for 10-32 screw. Then I removed the L-shaped aluminum backing plate I had made and tapped the four holes I'd drilled in each steel impeller blade with a 10-32 tap. Next I enlarged the holes in the aluminum backing plate with a 10-32 clearance drill. 

There were three tapped holes in the long side of the impeller blade and one hole in the short side (at right angles to the long side). Finally, I put in 10-32 screws from the aluminum backing side with Loc-Tite to hold them in place. I used a screw cutter to cut stainless steel screws to the right length so the end of each screw protruded slightly from the throwing surface of the impeller blade. 

I used a Dremel grinder to flatten the protruding heads, leaving the throwing surface of the impeller blades perfectly flat. I was going to use button head 10-32 screws with Allen head drive, but I had Phillips stainless steel screws on hand, so I used those. 

This method was easy to do without removing the impeller, but I did remove the main auger and one side of the bucket for easier drill access.

I hope this helps someone else doing this mod. It worked great for me.


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## Rockproof

Here it is snow80: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...scussion/1542-restored-honda-hs80-action.html


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## snow80

Rockproof said:


> Here it is snow80: http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...scussion/1542-restored-honda-hs80-action.html


Very nice!

These old machines are amazing. I was munching a path down my driveway throwing one of those rooster tails. The curtain of snow blocked my sight of an approaching snowplow. As I arrived about 3 feet from the driveway end I was blasted by the snow he was throwing. It hit me hard enough to tip over the HS80 and knock me from my feet.

Even though I had planned to stop before the driveway end, it was a good reminder not to blindly drive out into the street. Be careful out there. We had one woman killed by a plow while SB'ing and one guy who lost his fingers reaching into the impeller chute.


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