# Just purchased 2nd 421



## oldebonnie (Nov 22, 2014)

Hi guys-

New guy here. I came over from the tractor forum on recommendation from a guy over there.

I've been using an old 421 for years. I have some narrow walks to clear and some tight spots so I appreciate the smaller size machine. I also have about 200 feet of gravel driveway to clear.

The engine is pretty tired so I decided to put another one on there while I overhauled the old one. Turns out a decent running HS40 isn't that easy to come by and most of the ones you see are ridiculously overpriced. HS50s are more common but just as overpriced and I wasn't sure my crank pulley would fit either. Started to consider a 6.5 Predator when I ran across a nice used 421 for $200 on CL. 

Spoke to the guy Friday and we missed connections yesterday so I met him this am down in Schneider. I had already decided I was going to pay him his asking price if it was as good as the pics looked. We have 4" of ice on the lake that often isn't frozen until mid December and last year's winter will not soon be forgotten, so with snow in the forecast I figured he would have plenty of calls for it. He said he had a bunch of calls including a guy offering him more than his asking price but he gave me the first shot since I called him first.

Clean, solid, starts on the first pull, needs only skids and a belt adjustment as it slips in reverse. And I have good skids on my newly designated parts machine. I'm satisfied with the deal and that's one less job hanging over my head. When the snow comes I'm ready.

The old 421 was a little workhorse but heavy wet snow would clog it up just like it does most machines. I think I'm going to put wipers on the impeller blades. Has anyone done that on one of these little Toros? Looks pretty simple and worthwhile if it prevents slush clogging.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

hello oldbonnie, welcome to *SBF!!* the hs50 motor is a direct bolt on, the pulleys will fit. if you don't mind the predator motor it will work for you also. joe has an impeller kit on his toro 521, my kit is still in the box in the door pocket of my van


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

oldebonnie said:


> Hi guys-
> The engine is pretty tired so I decided to put another one on there while I overhauled the old one. Turns out a decent running HS40 isn't that easy to come by and most of the ones you see are ridiculously overpriced. HS50s are more common but just as overpriced and I wasn't sure my crank pulley would fit either. Started to consider a 6.5 Predator when I ran across a nice used 421 for $200 on CL. .


 

if you're looking for HS40/50 engines don't rule out Ebay. there's a lot of used Tec. engines on there at a good price. most sellers just want them gone for a few bucks. I recently picked up an NOS new short block for only $40 including the shipping. I did a quick check and there is a few engines you can use. here's an HS40 for $89 obo





 

another one for $79


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

HS50 engine for $25





 

and a really nice one for $50


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## oldebonnie (Nov 22, 2014)

detdrbuzzard said:


> hello oldbonnie, welcome to *SBF!!* the hs50 motor is a direct bolt on, the pulleys will fit. if you don't mind the predator motor it will work for you also. joe has an impeller kit on his toro 521, my kit is still in the box in the door pocket of my van


Thanks for the welcome. I've seen different parts numbers for 421/521 crank pulleys on the schematics and they look a bit different, although that doesn't mean they won't swap. I've had a couple of people suggest the small frame Tecumseh's had either a 3/4" or 1" shaft but I haven't been able to confirm. My HS40s have 3/4" cranks.

Maybe Joe can give us the lowdown on his impeller kit. I'm thinking of cutting up an old tire and using sheet metal screws. 

Impeller mod video: 




Impeller mod comparison video, with and without the modification. Pretty impressive results.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

BROTHER DETROIT is the man for those also. ALOHA to the forms..


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## oldebonnie (Nov 22, 2014)

greatwhitebuffalo said:


> if you're looking for HS40/50 engines don't rule out Ebay. there's a lot of used Tec. engines on there at a good price. most sellers just want them gone for a few bucks. I recently picked up an NOS new short block for only $40 including the shipping. I did a quick check and there is a few engines you can use. here's an HS40 for $89 obo
> 
> Vintage Tecumseh Engine HS40 Go Cart Mini Bike Mower Tiller Briggs Estate Find | eBay
> 
> ...


Yeah, I checked those out. Thanks for the help. I've been all over eBay & Craigslist. I wanted a runner, and the price of engines that run as opposed to parts engines is just crazy. And frankly I think the parts engines are priced pretty crazy too, when you can buy a new Predator at Harbor Freight for $120. It looks like an relatively easy swap, too, only requiring re-locating the chute control rod mount.

As I said above I found a complete running 421 for $200, which wasn't much more than a running HS50 would have cost me. So my immediate problem is solved and I have a complete parts machine which will become a backup when I get around to overhauling the engine.

Thanks again for the tips.

Skip


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Toro 3521 with 6.5HP Greyhound engine. The Tecumseh H35 was 3/4" shaft. Also, you can see my chute rod relocation fix. Blower worked great with the old Harbor Freight engine. I have a Predator on my current Ariens and it works great too.


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## oldebonnie (Nov 22, 2014)

Shryp said:


> Toro 3521 with 6.5HP Greyhound engine. The Tecumseh H35 was 3/4" shaft. Also, you can see my chute rod relocation fix. Blower worked great with the old Harbor Freight engine. I have a Predator on my current Ariens and it works great too.


Hi Shryp-

That one looks familiar. I think I resurrected an old thread over at the tractor forum that had this one: Toro 521 - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information

I think it was your stuff that got me thinking about a Predator before I found the used 421.

Were you able to use the original pulleys and belts on your engine swaps? Did you have to drill new mounting holes for the engines?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Yep, that was me.

I am pretty sure I reused the same mounting studs and nuts. I know I reused the old belts and pulley. The only modification I made was the 2x4 block of wood. The reason people are having to replace mounting bolts is a lot of old Tecumseh engines were bolted onto a steel plate that was a lot thinner than the standard aluminum block of the new engines.

With the 2x4 spacer the crank did stick out a little past the machine. It was in the way a little bit, but not too bad. I did manage to hook it on the garage door trim a couple times.

I believe the oil fill caps on the Predators stick forward slightly more than the Greyhound ones did. The couple predator swaps I did have the oil fill pushing on the belt cover slightly, but I seem to remember the Greyhound being flat in the front. It isn't much of an issue though as the plastic belt cover just pushes in a little.


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## silwan (Feb 25, 2014)

oldebonnie said:


> Hi guys-
> 
> New guy here. I came over from the tractor forum on recommendation from a guy over there.
> 
> ...


I made my own impeller kit using an old tread mill tread, folding over and gluing with super glue. Took the shoot off and installed the paddles tight against the steel wall when looking down the shoot hole. But when I turn the impeller to get to the next paddle, it won't clear the top portion of the throat. So I trimmed the paddles on top to just pass. As tight as possible.

Now, with this wet snow we had in North Jersey last week, I had a chance to test it. Mine is an older 524. I made two passes in the driveway, and it clogged up. Very disappointing. So I failed, or the machine failed. Or, something is wrong. Is the impeller housing supposed to be perfect circle? 
On mine, at 3 oclock I have more space than at 12oclock. Does anyone know?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

In theory it should be a perfect circle. In practice it usually isn't.


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## silwan (Feb 25, 2014)

Shryp said:


> In theory it should be a perfect circle. In practice it usually isn't.


I guess it's one of those things.


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