# Snow Robot



## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

Hello,

I have designed and built a remote controlled snow blower robot. I would like to get your feedback.

Thank you
_______________

This project started 2 years ago and after 4 prototypes we have a snow cleaning robot. Here are the unique and important properties of this robot:

1 – *FAST:* We have a 32'' (80cm) width collector with a 20'' (50 cm) height.

2 - *POWER:* There is a 5.5 HP gasoline engine on this robot.

3 - *ICE:* There is a unique blade/auger design to chop up the ice.

4 - *NO CHARGING:* Fill the gas tank and keep blowing. The robot has a hybrid power system, you only put the gas and the electrical system runs all the electrical motors and charges the battery. You don't need to stop to charge batteries. 

*The Details
*

SnowBYTE is a remote controlled snow cleaning robot. The physical properties of the robot are:

Collector Dimensions: 32'' (80cm) width, 20'' (50cm) height.

Robot Dimensions: 32'' width, 38'' height and 46'' (115cm) length.

Gasoline Engine: 5.5 HP, 196cc, air cooled.

Robot Speed: 15metre/min.

Drive System: 4 x 4, electrical drive, 16'' (40cm) wheel diameter, air filled wheels.

Weight: 160 kgs.

Control: 6 channel remote controlled.

Lights: 35W front lights, chute lights, back lights, flashing back lights.

The collector size sets the amount of snow at one pass you can clean, so we tried to make the collector very big. The 5.5HP engine provides the necessary power to the system. By putting front and back lights we increased the visibility. The flashing lights are to take even more attention.

The chute has the capacity to turn 360 degrees. The chute lights help you to see where you are blowing when it is dark.

The auger is designed to cut snow and the front bar works as a bumper. The 4 by 4 drive system provides the power to mobilize the robot and allows easy turns and driving. The salt box controlled by the remote allows you to throw salt while you clean the snow.

The gasoline engine powers an alternator to generate the necessary electrical power on the robot. The electrical energy runs the drive system, lights and electronics and it charges the batteries. The robot has a battery pack to start the gasoline engine and to allow the user to drive the robot for a short period of time so that the robot can be parked without running the engine.

For safety, the robot has an emergency button and the gasoline engine also can be stopped from the remote control instantly.

Here is a partial list of the calculations done:


Transportation of the snow through the blades,
Pump design,
Mechanical power transfer through the blades and pump,
Electrical power distribution,
Drive system design,
Salt box design,
Chassis design,
Vibration control,
Heat control,
Electronic system design,
Electrical wiring, and
Software design.

One unique advantage of this robot is that it is designed to be simple to manufacture and assemble. 

Here are a couple of pictures:


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

Impressive!

So the engine only runs an alternator? 

Is every function (auger, drive wheels, chute motion) all electric?


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Interesting concept. You asked for thoughts, so here's mine:
What happens if 2 machines are in the same area and in use at the same time? Can you switch channels or something so one doesn't interfere with the other?
If you have a runaway or lose control of the unit, is there some form of master kill outside of the operating electronics that can shut everything down in an instant? If not, do you hope for the best and have to try and chase it down?
Around here, a 5.5 hp motor would be more suited for something in a 22"-24" auger. Most 32" are in a 10 hp range to have enough power to cover the blower auger needs for deep or heavy snow.
How well does it handle slushy snow? Without something like an impeller kit around here, it's not uncommon to plug the chute up alot when there's that heavy, wet snow.
I'm assuming you need line-of-sight to control it. How does the radio signals handle walls etc in a home? What happens when you're moving from one area to another in the house particularly if the control signal is lost by the blower?
Do you have some form of charging system for your batteries if you haven't run the unit for a while and the batteries are dead? Are the batteries used 'standard' batteries or unique to the unit?

It's a niche machine in-my-opinion. Not trying to take away from it. I have a house with a separate garage off the backyard. You cannot see the driveway from the house. Unless you had some form of wireless video that the user could see when not in direct line of sight, it means you're going to have to be close by, which to me negates the advantages of a remote controlled unit.

My thoughts only. Don't let anything deter you from your quest, it's interesting.

PS - one more thought. If there was a way similar to a automobile automatic backup alarm/brake system incorporated it might prevent running into something unless the operator specifically had some button or control that allowed it to get closer that some set distance.


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> Impressive!
> 
> So the engine only runs an alternator?
> 
> Is every function (auger, drive wheels, chute motion) all electric?


The cutting blades (auger) and the pump are mechanically connected to the gasoline engine and drive wheels, 4x4, chute, up and down and 360 around and salt box are all electric powered, which comes from the alternator.


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

I take it that the pump means the impeller.
Sid


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

It is a little hard to tell from the pictures, but I'm guessing this is a two stage machine. Is the auger and impeller operated by an electric motor or hydraulic pump?


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*SnowBYTE*: Thanks for using this forum as the (or one of) your robot's "coming out parties." You've done a very cool thing. And these guys here will have ideas to help you refine it. A video with it working on actual snow would be appreciated.

And I know you are already way ahead of me and it is probably proprietary, but for the self-driving/self-navigation feature either a metallic line painted on the pavement or a buried wire on the borders of the driveway or the self-learning feature like the iRobot vacuum cleaner (I imagine you would direct it once and it would memorize the route and then repeat it on its own).


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

Sid said:


> I take it that the pump means the impeller.
> Sid


Yes you are right. I call it as pump because I needed to calculate the housing of the impeller for dimensions, shape and the gap in between the impeller and the walls. Moreover, the impeller rotational speed and geometry are also calculated (number and shape of the wings).


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

bwdbrn1 said:


> It is a little hard to tell from the pictures, but I'm guessing this is a two stage machine. Is the auger and impeller operated by an electric motor or hydraulic pump?












When you consider the 3 stage machines I guess you should call this machine as 3 cubed.. :smile:

The gasoline engine rotates CCW at 3600 rev/min. It is connected to the "impeller" shaft with a belt, because this speed is too much for a chain drive system. The impeller rotates at 1200 rev/min (center one). The other two blades are connected to the main (impeller) shaft via chains so there is no need for a belt tensioner. Both of the side blades have impellers (if you look carefully you can see them) to push the snow to the center at the back of the blade. When the left one (blue) turn CCW, the right one (red) turns CW, so that the snow goes to the center from under the blade. The chain allows me to change the direction of rotation since both sides of the chain can be used to transfer motion.


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## Rob711 (Feb 5, 2015)

Cool. How much?


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

Snowbyte, you have some interesting stuff going on here.

I agree you are under powered by about 50%. Calculations are good but there's a whole industry that suggests this is so. That's really of no concern since you are at the prototype level. A bigger engine is an easy final design adaptation.

With that bearing bar across the front it simply won't work in a real snowbank. The "augers" need direct access to the snow to break it up and feed it to the impellers. In the profile shot they look painfully thin and seem like they world bend immediately.

How are you driving the side augers? This seems to have you on your way to above average complexity in the drive train.

How about managing abrupt slopes, like a driveway from street to sidewalk level? Will it bite and straddle or is there some form of compliance?

You have a lot of cool stuff nicely packed into this project. I think it has long way to go before it's ready to commercialize and it may not even be in the form of a domestic snowblower as is the case for many inventions.

Stranger things have preceded you!

PIete


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

That's my thoughts as well...... it looks like a good starting point for testing. I would look into moving the auger support away from the front of the machine to being behind the augers. It would need to be some type of bearing carrier that could handle more power when the time comes to step up the power level in later generations I would think.? It would be interesting to see/feel how smooth the controls are to operate, but at the end of the day I don't think it has the practicality of a hand operated machine. It's more of a fun thing than a truly useful tool. Not that I am against fun! ;>P


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*SnowBYTE* and *bad69cat* you are, of course, both correct. 

All that is needed to convert it into a walk-behind machine is a cradle for the waterproof controls to sit in at the usual height and placement of the "dashboard" on the regular walk behind snow blower (along with the optional but not necessary musher's platform). 

Voila, you have a walk-behind machine which would be helpful to deal with those difficult areas such as EOD and around cars parked in your driveway. But for the easily done clean "field" areas of the drive, a driverless self-navigating feature would be fine -- while you look out the window with your coffee cup in hand to check up on it occasionally. 

*SnowBYTE*: As far as the auger mechanism goes, clearly you are re-inventing the wheel. Maybe unnecessarily so, maybe necessarily so.

There are "black swan" moments in history - rare, but they do occur, and when they do occur they change everything and make old technology completely obsolete.* 

Maybe your auger invention is revolutionary and better than the evolved auger design on current machines. Maybe not. Personally, I don't think you should focus your time on re-inventing the currently refined existing auger technology.

But *SnowBYTE *you just need to test your auger design in actual field conditions next to a modern Honda, Yamaha, Ariens or Toro conventional auger design and objectively, clear-eyed, non-emotionally observe which auger design is more effective. Then add your robot drive train and controls to the winning design.


* A great example is parabolic skis, they came along and in fewer than five years made 40 years of continual refinement of the narrow straight alpine skis design _obsolete_. And only the inventor of the parabolic ski saw it coming. No one in the ski "industry" saw it coming or knew how it would completely revolutionize the ski industry. Keep going for it SnowBYTE!


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

E350 said:


> *SnowBYTE*: Thanks for using this forum as the (or one of) your robot's "coming out parties." You've done a very cool thing. And these guys here will have ideas to help you refine it. A video with it working on actual snow would be appreciated.
> 
> And I know you are already way ahead of me and it is probably proprietary, but for the self-driving/self-navigation feature either a metallic line painted on the pavement or a buried wire on the borders of the driveway or the self-learning feature like the iRobot vacuum cleaner (I imagine you would direct it once and it would memorize the route and then repeat it on its own).



Everyone thank you very much for all the comments. HCBPH thanks for all the questions, I would love to answer when I have time.

Here is link for a movie


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

bad69cat said:


> That's my thoughts as well...... it looks like a good starting point for testing. I would look into moving the auger support away from the front of the machine to being behind the augers. It would need to be some type of bearing carrier that could handle more power when the time comes to step up the power level in later generations I would think.? It would be interesting to see/feel how smooth the controls are to operate, but at the end of the day I don't think it has the practicality of a hand operated machine. It's more of a fun thing than a truly useful tool. Not that I am against fun! ;>P


When I was testing this machine, once I was outside almost 2.5 hours and probably with the wind chill just below freezing temperature (the car was showing 4 degree C). Since I needed to use my hands, I couldn't wear gloves. I got cold burns and the skin on my fingers was peeling for a week or so. 

The biggest advantage of a machine like this is that so you don't need to be outside in the cold.

Can you guys tell me what was the lowest temperature you were outside blowing and plowing snow?


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

looking at the vid I agree that it needs a bigger motor. coldest temp for me blowing snow that I remember 11F


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

I think that proof of concept has been born, but it's not a robot unless it's autonomous. Albeit, that would be exceptionally difficult in a snow covered environment, unless the machine learned the environment, dry. I agree with the underpowered statement by others, but we also have the ability to acquire inexpensive Chinese motors at a reasonable price to play with. 

Somethings to consider:

Wind direction, when it shifts it can take what you are trying to remove and cover over what you have cleared. 

Ground engagement: in order for it to successful it must have a true scraper bar. One that is capable of feeding into the feed system. 

Autonomously: you will probably need to use some off the shelf ideas here, and incorporate some sort of proximity sensors for human protection.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Pretty cool. 
I suggest a larger engine 10+hp, Carlise Xtrac tires and a chute twice as tall at min.


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

Rob711 said:


> Cool. How much?


The basic version is 3000$.


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

One quick note on making it autonomous.

Understanding the path for the robot on the snow is very difficult and even Google or Ford Self Driving cars couldn't solve this problem yet. 

One solution would be marking the area, by either using a wire (grass cutting robots) or wireless units around the lawn. But then you will not be able to clear any other area.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Impressive video. Saw a couple of things to think on in addition to everything already suggested. Where I live it can be very cold, it's been well below 0 farenheit to answer one question. Historically we've had under 2' of snow a winter to over 100" some years. The snow can vary from powder to slush to rock hard with anywhere from a dusting to a foot or two of snow at one time. Living in the city, there are snowplows that clean the streets and push the packed snow onto the sidewalks etc. It's very hard and can be compacted. To handle that, the blower would need to cut into potentially 2' or higher compacted piles of snow, some times 2' or more wide. You need to be able to cut through those piles and they can be very hard. There are also times we get dumped on, between that and drifting I've had 30"-36" piles along the side of the house that I need to plow through. My garage is off an alley behind the house, when the snowplow goes through there, I've had snow/ice boulders that can easily be 18" or bigger. You need to chew through those also to effectively move the snow.

I think you've received alot of good info here from the members to consider. I think you're going to find alot of supporters and people that want to see one of our own succeed. I've been in your shoes, I designed what I thought was a better tablesaw guard. It didn't make it to market mainly because of financial and market conditions but I can understand your devotion to your project - good for you.


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

Realistically mount the controls on a pedestal and walk behind it until the core has evolved. There is a lot of ground to break before it ready for commercial sale. Making it autonomous or otherwise guided is a whole level of work that is worthless without a snow moving platform.

What is the chain diverting around at :38?

Why does the snow look so odd blowing from the chute?


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

HCBPH said:


> Interesting concept. You asked for thoughts, so here's mine:
> What happens if 2 machines are in the same area and in use at the same time? Can you switch channels or something so one doesn't interfere with the other?
> If you have a runaway or lose control of the unit, is there some form of master kill outside of the operating electronics that can shut everything down in an instant? If not, do you hope for the best and have to try and chase it down?
> Around here, a 5.5 hp motor would be more suited for something in a 22"-24" auger. Most 32" are in a 10 hp range to have enough power to cover the blower auger needs for deep or heavy snow.
> ...


This robot is used with a remote control with a 2.4 GHz adjustable frequency. So it means each robot's remote is software adjusted so they will literally have no interference. 

I got the point about the HP. I will be buying a bigger one and replacing it.

Control signal shouldn't get lost, since the range is 5 kms. On the other hand if you have some metal walls (I don't know why) you might loose the connection. 

It is very easy on the robot software to add a section to stop the robot, if the connection to the remote is lost. I will do this in the next update.

Since the remote is sending radio signals, you do not need a line of sight to control, and to be able to see the robot to control you can get the one with the camera on it.

For the batteries, I should be also giving an external charger.

Thank you for all these questions.


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

Lessons Learned:

- You deal with ice a lot. So more power is necessary. 10+ possibly.
- To be able to cut the ice, I need to get rid of the front bar. I though it was good for safety.
- Battery charger is necessary for the first start after summer.

Seems like lights, color, general shape is OK.

Nobody ask anything about the forward speed or the noise level.

And I need to test to show how effective it is.


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

You could probably find more than a couple of folks here in North America that would be more than happy to put your prototype through it's paces in the winter conditions we encounter and give you feed back.


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## Spectrum (Jan 6, 2013)

SnowBYTE said:


> Nobody ask anything about the forward speed or the noise level.


I assumed infinitely variable electric skid steer type drive. The video suggested reasonable get up and go. 

Noise is power, noise is good, make more noise.


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## conwaylake (Feb 6, 2014)

*Learn Mode ?*

One way to getting SnowBYTE towards 'autonomny' would be to add a 'Learn Mode' were it would be taught the snow clearing pattern. Obstacle avoidance would be a long-term yet very elusive objective.


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

Spectrum said:


> I assumed infinitely variable electric skid steer type drive. The video suggested reasonable get up and go.
> 
> Noise is power, noise is good, make more noise.


I meant maximum forward speed. How fast do you guys can go let's say 10 and 20 inches of snow?


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

conwaylake said:


> One way to getting SnowBYTE towards 'autonomny' would be to add a 'Learn Mode' were it would be taught the snow clearing pattern. Obstacle avoidance would be a long-term yet very elusive objective.


I really understand you guys expect autonomy, but as to my knowledge this is not possible today (Since I work as an academic I can see every scientific work published ever through web of knowledge). 

Learn mode might not work, since there will be slipping on the wheels and no way really to correct it. Moreover, people will expect this robot to work while it is snowing.

Sorry.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Well.... geo-spatial(gps) learning is possible in the pre-season..... not perfect, but possible. You could add reflectors to create boundaries, but then would have to be careful not obstructing them with snow. Could it be done, yes. But it would require a lot of work on the user. 

That all said, we are not here to tear your product apart, but rather help you group think it through. So, please take this as creative criticism and input. We don't want to go out in the cold as much as anyone!


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## 1894 (Dec 16, 2014)

SnowBYTE said:


> I really understand you guys expect autonomy, but as to my knowledge this is not possible today (Since I work as an academic I can see every scientific work published ever through web of knowledge).
> 
> Learn mode might not work, since there will be slipping on the wheels and no way really to correct it. Moreover, people will expect this robot to work while it is snowing.
> 
> Sorry.


 My thoughts are, it would be best to keep it remote controlled and pretty close to a line of sight limit at that, with cameras as well. 
Once you get a machine capable of chewing up and spitting out a bunch of snow , end of driveway packed mess , etc. etc. Bad stuff can happen very quickly. 
Not much snow in this pic , but you get the idea ,that turning that loose on its own out of sight is asking for trouble . 
Keep up the good work !!! I'd be happy to test one out for you , we get @ ten feet of snow / season average around here. :icon_smile_wink:


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Here's one more suggestion, find a local remote control airplane and/or boat club. Talk to the members and find out the issues they have run into.

Back in the 70's I used to go to a place that had both a river along with an area set up for RC planes. I used to love to watch them playing with both. I'd seen a boat die dead in the water and the owner had to swim out to get it. I've also seen a plane that was flying flat and level have something happen and flew off on it's own out of the owners control, that one I don't know if he ever found it or got it back.

In both areas, they had some for of flag/indicators that when a frequency was in use, that person had that flag in their area so someone else wouldn't come in and try using the same frequency and mess them up.

In my opinion you need some means on startup to confirm the frequency isn't currently in use. Along with that, some means of detecting if the frequency is lost to stop the machine (both drive and augers) until such time as the frequency is regained.

I don't know how the laws are where you're at, but you'll likely have alot of safety relating rules and regulations to meet before you can sell something here. Again, look at where you're considering selling and insure you can meet their regulations.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Another community to look into is the drone/quad-copter community. They seem to be on the cutting edge of the electronics, as they tend to have to be to make those things fly.


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

db9938 said:


> Another community to look into is the drone/quad-copter community. They seem to be on the cutting edge of the electronics, as they tend to have to be to make those things fly.












The remote I am using is normally used for flying robots/drones.

As you can see it is computer programmable. This web site explains in details how it works.

How 2.4GHz Spread Spectrum Radio Control Works

spoiler- no need to worry about interference.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Nice, you may want to look into the FPV idea that is often used in that hobby. This added with the ability to rotate, might enhance the usability of the machine. You will, however need to source a heated camera lens screen, to prevent the inevitable freeze up of blowing snow. 

For that, you may want to look into the security camera market. This might be easier, considering that weight is not a consideration.


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

Today, I got myself a 13HP engine. It will take some effort to change the pulleys and the belts but this thing looks and feels really bigger.

Thank you for the advice. I will be changing the front part too, and let you guys know how that works.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*SnowBYTE*: Thanks for starting this thread. Please come back and update it. Can't wait to see.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

Ah, a good old Loncin. Our equivalent over, here is the Harbor Freight line of engines. Often referred to as a Honda clone engine. Many over here have had very good luck using them in various projects.


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## SnowBYTE (Mar 26, 2016)

Hello again,

It is almost time for the snow season to start again where I live, but I see that quite few of you already started to have the white “fun”. Last spring I have purchased a bigger engine, 13HP Loncin. I got eh old engine out of the robot and with some effort to put the pulleys and belts together engine work should finish soon.


https://i.imgsafe.org/a8097804f0.jpg


https://i.imgsafe.org/a80bc29130.jpg


The new engine is 2 times bigger and heavier. I don’t have any problem with the weight, but it seems lie I will need to do some updates on the cover. The real challenge is to change the front of the robot. The front bar was hitting the ice and didn’t let the blades to cut the ice. I will keep posting the updates.


Suggestions are always welcomed.


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## DennisP (Jan 10, 2016)

SnowBYTE, I just have to ask, I take it this is an academic exercise?

Ie, it is for some sort of engineering class/graduate work?

If so, great. Looks good, probably just what you need to fulfill the requirements.

If not, and you are serious about trying to go to market with one of these, then you really have to start looking at it from a fully functional utility aspect.

First off, kudos on all the automation side things. It is a manually directed remote control snowblower. It is not a "robot" if you cannot program it and have it just go do its thing. FYI, there is a company that has already announced an autonomous robot for mowing the lawn and snowblowing in one. You program it via outside path, it records it and then it knows where the boundaries are. From then on it can figure out the "inside area" and takes care of it automatically.

But, all good automations start from a fully functional design that allows it to do it's job first and foremost. To that end it seems as if your bucket and auger design is flawed from the start. If you look at any of the existing designs and even the current 3-stage offerings of some brands, a center auger has one benefit and two flaws. The benefit being it can bring in large amounts of snow directly to a upward thrusting impeller with great efficiency (which primarily means that little DOESN'T get pushed up and out). The flaws become apparent because the speed of the auger and impeller directly correlate to exactly how much pumping can be done, not a big deal since they are usually mechanically coupled, but there is a reasonable limit, but that also means that you have to rotate them at a fairly high speed to get them to work well. The flaws are:

a) Too high of a speed and you create a mess throwing snow about as you try to get more and more in. The current 3-stage offerings show this as a major flaw by kicking snow out front and to the side.

b) You run a much higher risk of shearing the coupling mechanism (known as sheer pins in conventional designs) and it only gets worse the higher the auger speed. Ice in itself is rock hard, thus making the idea of just "chopping it up with the auger" a flawed proposition.

Traditional designs allow for dealing with ice in a number of ways, by either having an open auger design that allows larger chunks to fall around and through and get beat up/broken/chopped (and those designs usually having some sort of teeth) or a close auger design that allows for the ice to be kept from being ingested in large chunks because they are pushed and crushed with pressure (and those designs usually have no teeth being a smooth edged blade). In either case the "ice" handling surfaces are quite large and have had many many years of development on them.

In your case you have three forward facing augers that are perpendicular to the area being cleared. It would seem it would make more sense and be more efficient to work that way, but due to shape (round) you have areas between the augers that act as a plow more than they act as a a funnel to get the snow where you want it. I did not see any sort of diverters between the augers that would push the snow into the augers, thus you have the buildup effect in front of it.

I wish I could go into more detail right now, but I am short on time this morning.

I also wanted to clarify I am not trying to dissuade you at all, this is a cool project. I am a System Engineer and have been around automated manufacturing and warehousing systems since the early 1990s, so I have a little background in "robots" and automation systems.


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