# Gasoline ?



## Stu (Sep 25, 2017)

Just purchased an Ariens Deluxe 28 SHO snowblower and the dealer is recommending the use of mid-grade (89) gasoline, but the owner's manual recommends 87 (regular) or higher.

Any thoughts/recommendations would be appreciate


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Yeah the 89 octane is the bees knees man. ran that in the lawn mower this year and it was humming like a Detroit Diesel. Anyhoo, ALOHA from the Paradise City.:smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027::smiley-rpg027:*


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## unknown1 (Dec 13, 2015)

Moderators

This looks like a duplicate of this other thread http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens/118369-gasoline.html


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## Dee74 (Nov 18, 2017)

I am not sure what octane I run but I try to find ethanol free gas. If I cannot find it I use an ethanol treatment in my gas can.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Unless the 89 is ethanol free, then there is no advantage using it over 87 octane, except it will drain your wallet quicker.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

RIT333 said:


> Unless the 89 is ethanol free, then there is no advantage using it over 87 octane, except it will drain your wallet quicker.


maybe yours?? each to his or her own, 

but 89 is a way better choice over 87 in any of today's motors due to higher compression ratios needed for emissions, it makes less carbon inside the chambers and on the valve heads and stems, holds some of the high test additives not found in 87 as it a pump mix of both grades, 

machines i work on, the owners get told forget what the owner's manual has printed, run high test as it stores longer and better, we get them back for normal service with very few returns for fuel related issues due to poor quality, no name cheap gasoline, when we do we find the 10% grain has sucked up moisture out of improperly tightened fuel storage can vents and caps. water in the machine gas tanks,


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## gormleyflyer2002 (Nov 5, 2017)

not sure on you location - but in Ontario Shell Premium is the only non ethanol fuel i'm aware off. This is what all the small engine shops suggest people use in their mowers and blowers etc. (but not for the octane rating) I'm sure it will run great with 87. This is what i do / but i make sure my last tank is Shell Premium before storage


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## Prime (Jan 11, 2014)

Use K100 in your fuel to beat the ethanol problems. See this demo video.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

gormleyflyer2002 said:


> not sure on you location - but in Ontario Shell Premium is the only non ethanol fuel i'm aware off. This is what all the small engine shops suggest people use in their mowers and blowers etc. (but not for the octane rating) I'm sure it will run great with 87. This is what i do / but i make sure my last tank is Shell Premium before storage


you just named issue by nailing it on the head! NAME brand labels over no name, shell.sunoco. exxon/mobil. no name or off brand, simply don't have the additives of the better named gas, personally my cars get shell or sunoco. which for me means a 15 mile drive to the highway as all we have in town local is off label stations run by not so great people and found to have at times well over the posted 10%.

as a example my little daily driver a 2017 elantra will give me low 30's mpg city on either, 42 to 45 highway, if i can't get to the highway,the off label gas it drops to low 20's city and tops 29 highway. 
as to what the small engine makers say. most say 87 or better.

kohler for one has a FAQ https://power.kohler.com/na-en/engines/faqs
items 2, 5 and 7 pertain to a lot of questions many ask in sbf, 
gasoline wise they post
"Gasoline
Use unleaded regular gasoline with a pump sticker octane rating of 87 or higher."

by higher they match what i tell my customers, YES it hurts the wallet. but how much do we really use each year, 2 or 3 gallons? the difference in cost of 89 or 92 is just cheap insurance 

oil wise. most of us say wait till 10 or more before switching to syntech, i always say 20. seems i'm wrong. it's 50 hours,

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/support/faqs/browse/fuel-recommendations.html


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

87 powershift said:


> maybe yours?? each to his or her own,
> 
> but 89 is a way better choice over 87 in any of today's motors due to higher compression ratios needed for emissions, it makes less carbon inside the chambers and on the valve heads and stems, holds some of the high test additives not found in 87 as it a pump mix of both grades,
> 
> machines i work on, the owners get told forget what the owner's manual has printed, run high test as it stores longer and better, we get them back for normal service with very few returns for fuel related issues due to poor quality, no name cheap gasoline, when we do we find the 10% grain has sucked up moisture out of improperly tightened fuel storage can vents and caps. water in the machine gas tanks,


I believe there is no evidence using octane higher than recommended has any substantive impact on an engine. While it's true 89 octane is better than 87 in higher compression engines as a general rule, that doesn't mean 87 octane isn't fine for those engines that recommend it.

Beyond that, there is little correlation between octane rating and ethanol phase separation as all gasolines containing ethanol contain approx. the same ratio of gasoline to ethanol.

Having said that, I do use higher octane gasoline than the minimum required in my small engines, but for a different reason. Like many, I add stabilizer (Sea Foam or Sta-Bil) to gasoline. I'm concerned the additive may lower the overall octane so I use higher octane gas to offset that impact.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

agree and true tony

upside of higher grades in fuel is the additives, the higher the rating the more cleaners to reduce carbon. plus it doesn't break down as fast as lower grades

additive wise i only use well proven one. the very same that car,motorcycle,boat and small engines makers have packaged with their name on it, techron Home | Techron Fuel System Cleaner


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

last february when we had 3-4 days in a row of zero degree weather , the only gas station in town that did NOT have frozen pumps was Chevron. Even Shell gas was gelled up and would not pump.

so i use Chevron 89 with gas stabilizer.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Back in the 90's a friend of mine bought his first brand-new car, a new Honda Civic. We were in our 20's then, recently out of college. His dad and older brothers always said "premium gas is better", so he thought he would "take better care" of his beloved new car by always buying premium gas for it..always..every time..for years on end.

I told him it was totally unnecessary and a complete waste of money. If the owners manual said to use regular 87 (which it did) then using 87 is just fine. Using premium will be of no benefit, just extra cost. He didnt believe me, because "everyone knows premium is better".

I knew he was a fan of "Click and Clack, the cars guys", and about a decade later they did a few segments on the topic on their show. I asked him "if the Car Guys said using premium was totally unnecessary, would you believe *them*?" He said yes! So I sent him these:

https://www.cartalk.com/content/premium-vs-regular

https://www.cartalk.com/content/premium-vs-regular-1

https://www.cartalk.com/content/premium-vs-regular-0

He said...huh, ok then, I have now seen the light! 
And he started using 87..

Scot


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

What is the compression ratio of a "typical" OPE engine?


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## stromr (Jul 20, 2016)

dbert said:


> What is the compression ratio of a "typical" OPE engine?


old flatheads, 7:1, new OHV, 8.5:1


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

stromr said:


> old flatheads, 7:1, new OHV, 8.5:1


Thanks stromr. I know there are other variables involved, but I will continue to question if there is an actual loss of performance in using too much octane. 
Example
If you run too high of an octane, the fuel will pass through the engine unburned or will burn on its way out the exhaust and cause issues on that end. Increasing the Octane often requires more ignition timing to get the fuel to burn "in the chamber" and without this increase in timing you end up with the max burn and intended peak pressure to occur at a later crank angle. So you lose everywhere. 
If buying higher octane is the only way to get ethanol free I'd say it's worth it. If however you simply believe more octane equals more power, you could have been misled. :surprise:


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

My 4 stroke engines get 87, and my 2 strokes get 93.

Only exception is I use 93 in the Honda 1328.

Some of my machines get fully drained of fuel, but most get a full tank of stabilized fuel and the carb bowl dropped and drained.


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

I run premium fuel in all my small engines, from chain saw to lawn mower. The 2 cycle engines require the better fuel. The snowblower may not require it, but I pour it from the same gas cans.
They will start easier at the least. More expensive, so what. It's not like our running 200 gallons a year....


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

another vote for 93 its a better gas and its not a large $ investment to switch. most people are keeping there gas for longer then they should and in my experience 93 will last longer then 87 before it goes bad.

not to mention gas starts to lose its octane after about 2 weeks so i would think its better to start with more.

i use 93 with seafoam and i dont really worry about how old my gas is the most i usually go is 6-8 months at the most and havent had a fuel related problem since switching to seafoam.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> My 4 stroke engines get 87, and my 2 strokes get 93.
> 
> Only exception is I use 93 in the Honda 1328.
> 
> Some of my machines get fully drained of fuel, but most get a full tank of stabilized fuel and the carb bowl dropped and drained.


believe it or not but 2 strokes have higher compression ratios than most think, 93 in them is almost a must, and reason the premix cans are 92.

hightest also burns slower in the chamber making for a more complete burn,less carbon build up in the chamber,along with cleaner valve stems and heads.


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

87 powershift said:


> believe it or not but 2 strokes have higher compression ratios than most think, 93 in them is almost a must, and reason the premix cans are 92.
> 
> hightest also burns slower in the chamber making for a more complete burn,less carbon build up in the chamber,along with cleaner valve stems and heads.


not to mention when you mix with oil it has to dilute the gas/octane you dont want to do that with 87.


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## rfw1953 (Oct 11, 2017)

Personally, I use 91 octane ethanol free gas in all of my lawn and snow removal equipment. They just seem to start easier and run better. I also use in my Harley. Yes, it cost a bit more, but it's the only gas I can get with zero ethanol. I would buy 87 octane as well if I had the option. From my past experience with small engines, ethanol is the culprit in poor engine performance and issues. That said, I'm also confident that ethanol treatment and fuel stabilizer is an excellent alternative to zero ethanol gas. I just prefer to not deal with mixing since I have the option where we live.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

One thing to consider about higher octane gasoline is that it is harder to get it to burn (hard starting). In a race engine with high compression, run in the summer, you want gasoline that won't pre-ignite so you use a high octane fuel.

That's not so good in the winter when it's below zero. Now that might be splitting hairs but if you have an old snow bower with marginal compression or a well worn old car and you thought high octane was somehow giving you more power you might want to rethink that.


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## Mike Carroll (Apr 3, 2017)

If I could not find gas without ethanol in it I would buy the highest octane I could.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

why.


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## Mike Carroll (Apr 3, 2017)

Its worth it to me to spend the extra 20-30 cents a gallon.I had less trouble after going to it in my snowmobile,chains saws lawn mowers.I have been able to buy non ethanol gas here for the last 6 months and that is all I use now in my small engines.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

I never have had an issue using 85 Octane fuel here that has ethanol in it. The machines purr just fine with it. Been using it this way for.. 20+ years now.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

I use 93 octane with Startron.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

Snowbelt_subie said:


> not to mention when you mix with oil it has to dilute the gas/octane you dont want to do that with 87.


true! yet the grade of gasoline that one starts with also comes into play, off label/no name brands all tend to cheat on the %age of ethanol and additives that aid in cleaner running emissions .

high test gases burn slower than lower grade , slower burning means less detonation allowing more advanced timing. in a race car engine mine run 13.5 to 1, that ratio is in some diesel engines today, with 18 to 1 more common compared to years back when 21 to 24 were more the normal .

today with cars having direct injection 12 and 13 to 1 are common ratios . a little higher with direct injection we will no longer need spark plugs.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Direct injection has done wonders for power and efficiency in gasoline engines. Injector pressures are in the 1500-2500psi range vs the 40psi of port fuel injection. The atomization of the fuel has a literal cooling effect on the air fuel mixture preventing detonation, plus DI injection timing can vary from typical stociometric, during the intake stroke, to stratified, during the later part of the compression stroke.

Even the effective compression ratio can be raised or lowered using cam phasing.

The new hot ticket coming soon from Mazda is HCCI. Homogenous charged compression ignition. Under the right conditions spark ignition gets switched to compression ignition using a lean fuel charge and compression adjustment through cam phasing. Really cool stuff.

High test recommend.


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