# Chicago NW Burbs needs 1st new snowblower advice



## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

I read sscotsman post for this young man's thread. 

I'm starting my own thread because my budget is not that of a 16 year olds. So I'll need different advice. We are seeking a 2 stage top brand for longevity in the NW burbs of Chicago, by Algonquin. We see some pretty bad years and some mellow years of snow fall. Childsplay compared to east coast areas like Boston I lived in 1992 during my military stay at Fort Devens tho. My wife has to leave early AM when I'm working some nights so 24" is preferred, as we just went to Home Depot yesterday and she can't handle anything bigger. 

Here's what I'm looking at right now. 
7hp+ (Tim Allen syndrome), 2 stage, Headlight - don't know if that's really necessary ??
$799 Ariens Compact 24 in. Two-Stage Electric Start Gas Snow Blower
$599 Sno-Tek (Ariens China) 24 in. Two-Stage Electric Start Gas Snow Blower Over 200 reviews 5 star rated, but an LCT chinese engine.....

I'm primarily a *"buy the best, and it lasts"* mentality kind of person, however I do have a limit to what I want to spend too. ($800 on CC or $500 cash). So I'm looking PRIMARILY at new Ariens machines at Home Depot, and various used one's on local Craigslist ads. I had some Craftsman's picked out but I see alot of people say they're junk, and I know they have riding lawnmowers that some are higher level Husqvarna and the lower costing one's are rebranded MTD. All my lawncare equipment is higher end Husqvarna as we did the research on that this summer. Briggs powered riding mower. 

Here's the 2nd part of my dilemma. I'm trying to support American companies as much as possible. However, I see Ariens is now making China-Tek (Sno-Tek) and even though they're being praised, I'd prefer to buy American. Briggs and Stratton engines appear to have a joint Chinese venture since 1986.....so I'm not sure WTF is the best to go with right now. 

I've been told Tecumseh engine powered older units are built great but they went out of business 4 years ago or so, so parts availability is questionable or nonexistent ?? I want to invest in something that will last me another 20+ years. The thing about the Sno-Tek I hate is that it's the Chinese LCT Engine, but it's getting MASS praises, but it also hurts more American workers so I'd rather support Briggs and Stratton as long as it's an American produced engine that's reliable. What do you guys think ?? If I can get a reliable used older unit for a good price, I'm game for that, I just need to be 100% sure I have parts availability for repairs. That's my #1 concern. 

Here's my driveway from the Satellite view of our new home. 
It's roughly 40 feet long, and maybe 33 feet wide. Please advise.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

I am in love with the older Ariens units with the lockable differential on the axle. They are balanced quite well so they are easy to tip the front end up, plus the differential allows easy pivoting around in circles one handed. That should be a big help for your wife. In case you do end up with a big ice storm you can always lock the axle together if you need the extra traction.

Those two you selected are "pin lock" models with just means there is an extra hole in the axle to put the wheel pin into that is outside of the wheel so you only get 1 wheel drive.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Just my 2c but if it isn't made in USA I don't buy. If I have absolutely NO choice I generally buy used.
Just bought a 1978 Ward's/Gilson snow blower. I am almost positive it will last me another 20+ years.
Joe


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Ace,
ALL the snowblower manufacturers, not just Ariens, are going with the Chinese engines..basically because they have no choice..we (American consumers) did it to ourselves by always demanding the lowest price on everything, quality be damned..so in order to keep things as cheap as we demand, things have to be made in China..If you have to pay Americans to make it, Americans don't want to buy it..sad but true..
Of course, the corporation are partially to blame too!  but they only make what we want to buy..

As of last year, ALL MTD snowblowers (MTD, Cub Cadet, Troy-Bilt, and most Craftsman) have all-chinese engines, no American made engines...MTD was the first to go with all-chinese engines on the entire lineup..that happened last Autumn with the 2012 model year..

Toro *might* be all Chinese engines as of this year, although I haven't confirmed that yet..

Briggs & Stratton has been making their smaller gas engines in China for about a decade now..there are only three Briggs engines still being made in America:

Briggs & Stratton 305cc 1450 series - Made in the USA
Briggs & Stratton 342cc 1550 series - Made in the USA
Briggs & Stratton 342cc 1650 series - Made in the USA

It is still possible to buy an American-made Snowblower with an American-made engine on it, but only if its one of those three engine models..(and, there might only be one of those models left for this year) but if its not one of those engines, its definately a Chinese engine..(even if its a Briggs)

There is an extensive discussion on engines here:
- The Best Snowblower & Lawnmower Forum - • View topic - Toro to go with all Chinese engines next year.
(try to ignore the troll! 

Its quite possible that this year, right now, the 2013 model year, might be the very last year for a 100% made in America snowblower (both the snowblower body and the engine)..click on the post I linked above, and scroll back to my post made on Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:25 pm for the reasons why..

For the record, the Ariens Sno-Tek machines have American-made snowblower bodies, only the engines are Chinese..Same with Toro and most (but probably not all) MTD machines..(the snowblower bodies themselves are still made in the USA on most brands) There are some 100% Chinese snowblowers on the market now, but not by any of the "major" names..

I am about to update my Ariens page with the 2013 models:
The Ariens 1960's and 1970's Sno-Thro info site.
I plan to have it updated in a week or so..

Scot


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## twofishy4u (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry to tell ya this but you should get at least an 8hp with a 24" cut. Give yourself 400-600 cash go onto Craigs. Here is a couple models I'd look into. Simplicity 860 or 870 a newer cleaner one, I have one for sale right now for 550. An Ariens but I must admit I've seen a bunch of the black/orange ones with bad auger gears($$$) so watch that. Any deere that isn't a TRS. Toro 824 & the 824 powershifts are great machines. To0 buy a nice big heavy made Blower now you probably have to spend over a $1000. I'd rather have a heavy duty used one than a cheap new one. Also the tecumseh snow kings were proven engines and parts are cheap!!!


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## BB Cub (Jan 10, 2012)

i want to welcome you to the site. i purchase a snow tek last year and did the research before i bought mine. i got to use it with 3 inches on the ground so i cant tell you much . gayland


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## BB Cub (Jan 10, 2012)

keep us posted and these guys will help you out. i wish i had a light on mine.


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## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

Okay, so anyone think the headlight is necessary for my wife in the dark ??
I know snow is pretty bright even in the dark, but I figured it might help her
see the driveway lines better or something........dunno



sscotsman said:


> As of last year, ALL MTD snowblowers (MTD, Cub Cadet, Troy-Bilt, and most Craftsman) have all-chinese engines, no American made engines...MTD was the first to go with all-chinese engines on the entire lineup..that happened last Autumn with the 2012 model year..


Yes, i did find a ConsumerReports forum post that outlined all MTD products including Cub Cadet are using Zongshen chinese engines, and most of the other brands are using the LCT Stormforce chinese engines. My heart aches reading this.....



> Briggs & Stratton has been making their smaller gas engines in China for about a decade now..there are only three Briggs engines still being made in America:
> 
> Briggs & Stratton 305cc 1450 series - Made in the USA
> Briggs & Stratton 342cc 1550 series - Made in the USA
> ...


Great.... So my suspicions were correct.....
There's basically hardly anything Made in the USA anymore. 

I'm so disgusted right now it's not even funny......
But I appreciate the helpful info regardless. It looks like I have more 
reading to do and discover if I can find an American made high quality 
product that I can buy used.


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## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

twofishy4u said:


> Sorry to tell ya this but you should get at least an 8hp with a 24" cut. Give yourself 400-600 cash go onto Craigs. Here is a couple models I'd look into. Simplicity 860 or 870 a newer cleaner one, I have one for sale right now for 550.


Okay, so my next question is WHY should I be looking at this model ??

I found one an hour away for $300. thoughts ??
*********Simplicity 860 2 stage snow blower*********************

Here's another Simplicity I1224e that's only 2 years old for $750. 
Says it has a briggs and stratton engine on it.....but as sscotsman 
has stated, probably Made in China. 
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/for/3328987813.html


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I was on your local craigslist and saw about 1/2 dozen different snow blowers in the 7-8 H.P. range for $300.00 or less that I would not hesitate to grab. All older, American made units that with a little TLC will last a very long time. 
Aerins, Toro, Gilson, etc. and even an older Craftsman.
Joe


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Aceshigh said:


> Okay, so my next question is WHY should I be looking at this model ??


No specific reason.."twofish" was just recommending Simplicity as a good name to look for..no other reason than that..but they arent any better than the other well-known names like Ariens, Toro, Honda, Gilson, etc...




> I found one an hour away for $300. thoughts ??
> *********Simplicity 860 2 stage snow blower*********************


that one looks good!..that is one of the BIG robust Simplicity models..those things are supposed to be tanks..(I haven't owned a Simplicity myself, but I hear good things about them..) Its a Tecumseh engine, so you know the whole thing is made in the USA...hard to get a read on the age, could be 20 to 5 years old, but it looks to be in decent shape..and $300 is a good price IMO..Simplicity is now owned by Briggs & Stratton, but that one is most likely a "real" Simplicity made before the Briggs takeover..



> Here's another Simplicity I1224e that's only 2 years old for $750.
> Says it has a briggs and stratton engine on it.....but as sscotsman
> has stated, probably Made in China.
> SNOW BLOWER SIMPLICITY SNOW THROWER


WAY overpriced...and yes, definitely a Chinese-made briggs engine..that model is a major "step down" in "trim line" from the first Simplicity, and even if its newer, its still way overpriced at $750...IMO that one shouldn't (and probably wont) sell for any more than $500..Its still a fine snowblower, but not worth $750...I like the first one MUCH better, even though it's clearly older..

One thing the photo gives away, on that second Simplicity..even though its only 2 years old, it has been stored outside! you dont get that level of dirt buildup being stored in the garage or shed..and the owner couldn't even be bothered to hose it off before taking the photos for Craigslist..poor owner care..pass..

As for Simplicity models in general, there is no reason to stick to Simplicity specifically..no reason not to either..

Scot


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Welcome*

First off, welcome to the forum.

Now the next really depends on how mechanically inclined you are and what tools you have available. If reburbing a machine doesn't scare you off, there can be come real deals to be had. Look for those machines that "won't start". If they have compression and spark, it's usually a case of a gummed up carb and needing a cleaning and carb kit. Look at things like condition of the engine oil, auger and axel bushings and how much play there is (shouldn't be any for the most part). Look at the auger rakes and impeller for any bending or damage, and whether the auger rakes are rusted to the shaft or not.
I like an auger shaft that goes full width of the auger housing rather than some where there is a stub bearing or bushing that mounts to the housing and holds the end of the auger rake.
If you can narrow down the possible machines ahead of time, check into parts availability remembering that many parts went into a number of machines. It may not be available under the blower brand but may be under some other name.
I prefer a gear transmission over a friction disc drive. I also prefer ball bearings over metal bushings, and metal bushings over plastic bushings in the various auger and drive components.
I also prefer a bolted together auger/impeller housing over a welded one, easier to fix or refurb when they are easier to disassemble.
The bigger the size of the impeller housing and number of vanes, the better moving snow. The bigger the auger hole size, the less it will bog down with slushy snow.
I also like pneumatic tires over hard rubber ones, plus good snow tread over chains, but chains at a minimum.
The less plastic and more metal to me is the better combination. 
A good cast iron engine over a sleeved one or some of the new off-shore ones.

You'll see I'm more partial to older snowblowers. Most I feel have more material and guts to them and with some TLC and some replacement parts can easily be expected to give another 20+ years of service.

Paul


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## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

Well, I ended up taking the advice to check out the Simplicity 860. I drove an hour this afternoon out to Yorkville to grab it. 
I knew it looked older and figured it had to be prior to the 2004 Briggs and Stratton takeover so it was 100% American made. 

Does anyone know how to verify the production date on these ??? Mine is in the same condition as this one. 
Sumbitch is heavy as **** and built like a **** tank, after looking it over and testing it out, I was sold on it. 
Everything works, electric start too. 









It's got the 8hp Tecumseh engine I've seen on countless models, and I got it for $250. It was in very good condition for it's age

Only issue I had noticed was 1st gear doesn't go forward, in fact it goes in reverse maybe 1/4 speed of 1st gear. So I'm not sure
if that's a linkage issue?? Every other gear works, and both reverse speeds. It does wheelies in 4th and 5th gear nooooo problem. 
Kinda surprised me. Thing's built very heavy duty and it's 100% American made and I'm happy that I didn't have to fork out for a 
Chinese planned obsolescence piece of crap that might last 2-5 years and die with no repair options.

I have no idea what kind of gear case it has though. I am very mechanically inclined and have a 3 car garage FULL of tools so 
I'm sure with the right manuals and good forum assistance (thanks guys) anything is possible.


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## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

Anyone know if this serial number tells me the production year ??

ID Number: 1691707 
Serial #005221

Also, besides it already having fresh oil, any other areas I should inspect ?
Belts last about how long on these things ??


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Belts can vary based on usage patterns. Just take the belt cover off and take a peek inside and see if they look cracked or badly worn down. Wouldn't hurt to take note of the numbers on them if they are still visible too.

I would also check to make sure the augers are not rusted on the shaft and make sure the front gearcase is in good shape and has oil in them. Some take a grease and some take a 80w90 gear oil.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I'd definitely inspect every inch of your belts. Check the springs that tension the idler pulleys if it has them. Check the idlers themselves. 
You'll need to adjust the drive mechanism too. It sounds like you have the friction wheel type and it is adjusted too far one way. Pictures show drive mechanism similar to what you have. Also, you'll need to clean the grease off the slide and re-lube it. Vid was posted here just the other day somewhere that shows the process.
Real nice looking machine you have and it should last a lot longer than most of the new stuff seen these days. Sorry I can't help you with the date of the machine.
Joe


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

niiiice! thats a sweet deal for $250!








the problem with 1st gear is most likely a slight alignment problem with the friction wheel, should be easy to fix..

Do you have the owners manual? or do you need to locate that?

For the model year, look for the Tecumseh engine tag, should be on the side of the engine somewhere, and post the model and serial numbers on that tag..we should be able to work out the model year..

congrats on a great find! 

Scot


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Ace,
I found the manual!
try this:

http://www.hammerwall.com/Download_Manual/122005/

enter the captcha, and it should take you to the manual..
you can then download it to your computer as a .pdf.

The manual is dated 1988..which means that's probably the first year your model was made..but we dont know how long that particular model was produced..could be anywhere from 2 to 10 years..

So look for those Tecumseh numbers!  those will tell the tale..

Ariens makes three different manuals for snowblowers:

1. Owners manual - the basic operations of the machine.
2. Parts manual - all the parts diagrams and parts numbers.
3. Repair manual - more in-depth repair info..

Not sure if Simplicity did the same type of thing or not, but they might have..
So this first one could just be the owners manual, and there might be more manuals to find!
if you need them..which you probably wont right away..but they are nice to have for reference.

Scot


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

One other thing that came to mind looking at the photos...you will *never* need chains on that machine!  looks like it has newer tires on it..it will grip just fine..
try it out for one season before you make a decision on chains or not..I'm betting you will never need them...my 1971 Ariens, with it's original tires, works just fine without chains:










and your tires are much more robust than the Ariens..

Scot


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## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

Thanks guys, I'm going to take the cover off and inspect everything. 
My engine tag says 5W 30 oil for the winter. 



sscotsman said:


> niiiice! thats a sweet deal for $250!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's Greek to me .....LOL 
I guess I'll look more into the manual to see how to adjust the friction disc then.....if that's in there. 


> Do you have the owners manual? or do you need to locate that?


Yes, the seller gave me a print out, but it's also available right from Simplicity's site via a search for the 860. 
Downloaded both last night at work, the manual, and the parts list PDFs. 

http://www.simplicitymfg.com/manuals/



> For the model year, look for the Tecumseh engine tag, should be on the side of the engine somewhere, and post the model and serial numbers on that tag..we should be able to work out the model year..


This is the ONLY other tag on the engine besides the operation tag......unless there's another under a cover somewhere


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## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

Dealer said it's a 1989 to 1990 from the product number 1691707 model 860E. 

1676460 $32.12 Auger belt
1676461 $16.24 Drive belt.
Another dealer gave me different part #'s for the belt so I guess I have to dig that up myself. 

For some reason the manuals search worked last night but it's not working today. That's odd


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## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

Okay.....found a youtube video on the friction drive......
WOW.....this is as basic and simple as it gets. 
No where near as complicated as the GM 2004R trans I rebuilt....lol


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Aceshigh said:


> That's Greek to me .....LOL
> I guess I'll look more into the manual to see how to adjust the friction disc then.....if that's in there.


What is being said is look at this picture








The friction disk should be roughly off the wheel when in neutral, centered on the disk. It will be on one side of center when going forward, regardless of the gear. It will be on the other side of center when in reverse.

Sounds like the 'neutral' position is not aligned with the center of the friction wheel, so when you put it into gear it's on the wrong side of center of the wheel. You need to check out your adjustments and what's involved to adjust the friction disk right or left so it's roughly centered when in neutral.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Also be aware that some people purposely adjust them improperly to get a faster reverse speed and a slower forward speed. A common complaint with snowblowers is they go way too slow when backing up and they go too fast when trying to go through deep heavy snow.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Aceshigh said:


> This is the ONLY other tag on the engine besides the operation tag......unless there's another under a cover somewhere


That's just a tag for the starter..
what is the "operation tag" you mentioned? just operating instructions?
hmm..somewhere on the engine should be a Tecumseh tag that lists the engine model and serial number..the tag on mine looks like this:










although thats 20 years older than yours..so yours might not look quite like that..but do you see an engine tag with anything like that? or perhaps numbers just stamped into the engine metal covers somewhere? *something* on the engine should list the Tecumseh model and serial number.. if you can find it, the Tecumseh serial number can probably pin-point your model year..

Scot


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## twofishy4u (Dec 6, 2011)

Good BUY!
now to do.
Go to SEPW and get belt #'s do online search get size and get good belts at hardware store..green/kevlar ones
New fuel line, filter and 90 shutoff. Line is a PITA on these recoil off=engine off or handlebars off. Can sneak thru with long screw driver if lucky.
Get wheels off and lube axles. They rust tight! That can be a pain.
Change front gear lube...just has a fill, tip machine to drain. Most 80-90 you know the smell.
The drive is just a rod adjustment, careful one is lh threads
Don't freak at friction disc noise in reverse, had over 10 of these old and new, most do this. Odd yes.
Carb setup easy. Clean bowl, 7/16" nut. Main screw out 1.5, idle/side screw 3/4-1 out from seated. If you remove the gas line and recoil replace the primer line too. Cheap and simple once in there. 5w30 oil in engine. 
Dave
Great machines. A little maintance goes a long ways. I know these pretty well.


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## THH2079 (Oct 23, 2012)

I worked for a Simplicity Dealer in College ...... That is a good machine!


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## specialkkl (Oct 29, 2012)

Thinking in terms of your wife using it you may want one with a differential for easy turning or a lever like toro has. That makes turning easy the older ones need to be muscled and will be hard for her with the size you need and it likes like you need at least an 8 horse. Anything less than 8 has barely enough power to move the machine much less big snow. Drink cheap beer for a year and get a used ariens or toro with differential or a home equity and whatever you need new.


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## Aceshigh (Oct 14, 2012)

Thanks for all the tips!!!!

I came back to see if there was more info on prepping for the season since we have just a few weeks before snow fall starts. 
Thanks again Gents. Yes, I was already able to tell this one requires some muscling to turn but my wife works out daily. 

She's done P90X, Insanity, and Insanity Asylum and completed each about 4 times so she's very physically fit. 
IF she can't manage it after all that, I'm going to tell her she needs to stop cheating on those programs since she should be able to. LOL

Maybe in another 20 years when we're in our late 50's I hope American Manufacturing resurges and I can buy a new American model.


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