# HS928 wheeled Wheel hub issues.



## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

I have two issues with my 1999 HS928 W. It has a worn (distorted) clevis pin hole in the left wheel hub (not the driven axle). This results in some play in that wheel (left). The right one is "rust welded" to the drive axle. The left one is under the oil drain, thus it has been fairly well oiled over the years. The right one? Not so much.

What is the best way to deal with the distorted hole in the wheel hub. New hub? Drill bolt the hub AND axle out a bit and use the next bigger size pin? Oddly enough, it is only one of the holes on one side of the hub.

Video here

The second issue, what is the best way to deal with "rust welded" right side hub? I've not attempted anything with it yet. My usual go-to for something like this is Kroil. If no success, then heat and pneumatic air hammer. My concerns are.... Heat. Too much will ruin the rubber of the tire if it conducts up that far. Air hammer: Excessive impact to the end of the drive/axle shaft.

The hubs appear to be bolted on to the wheel. Are these wheels "split rim"? If I unbolt the hub from the wheel, can I move it further in (out of the way of the hub) to heat the hub?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

It should be a 'Split Rim'.
Unbolt the wheel, first remove the air in the tire, then move it in towards the frame away from the hub before you try to heat it.
You could use a 'Clam shell' or 2 piece bearing puller adapter to place behind the hub, then set up the 'pressure screw' with adaptor against the wheel axle and attach it to the bearing puller/clam shell, then try to pull it off.
Sometimes by using an air operated 'Impact' wrench, the impacts will help loosen the hub.
I have already removed frozen ones by placing a 2x4 piece of wood or long pry bar between the wheel and frame and while trying to pry it off we used a steel rod against the axle and beat on it with a big hammer.
You have to be careful that you don't expand or 'Mushroom' the axle end or you will get it stuck on and be harder to remove.
You could re drill the holes in the wheel hub or just replace it with a new one. The axle holes could be a bit worn. The axle is made of harder material than the wheel hub, so the hub holes will wear out faster than the axle.


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## gpguy2008 (Sep 27, 2020)

A cobalt bit will rip through axle and rim like butter if you want to use a larger bolt. Use a good (grade 5 or preferably 8) bolt instead of a pin. On my craftsman when my spring pin broke after 20 years of slight movement/rust I made a bushing for the wallowed out hole on one side out of a piece of copper pipe. I put in a bolt that fit tightly in the axle and tightened it up (after applying antiseize). There was very slight movement but better than any pin.

On the seized side I would remove the tire and take a short piece of steel with holes drilled the same distace as 2 of the diagonal mounting bolts. Use long bolts and a spacer on the end of the axle (maybe an impact socket) and use as a puller. Apply pressure and spray with PB Blaster or Kroil. Tap with a hammer and try a little heat. If it wont budge leave it with pressure on it and go do something else.. Everytime you walk by give it a couple taps. More than once Ive left parts with pressure on them only to come back and find they've seperate.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

i would just drill a new hole opposite the other holes. do this all the time with tracked wheels.

BTW , take care of that other wheel being "welded" to axle or else you will be sorry in future.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Thanks to all for the help. Unfortunately, I don't have a "comfortable" winter workshop (never mind the fact that recent hand surgery has left me pretty much one-handed). 

I suspect both issues with the machine have been like this for quite some time. What's another 1/2 season... I am going to wait until spring when I am not under the gun for a working machine, it's warmer, and I expect to have the use of my hand by then. Oh, by the way, I had the model wrong. It's an 828, not a 928.

In the mean time, with some coaxing and sweet talk, I was able to get the 6mm pin out of the right (welded side) wheel hub. Yes, the hub is rusted on pretty well. For now, I put a slightly smaller grade 5 in there with a nylock nut. I've also sprayed inside and out with PBlaster and given the whole assembly a few taps with a hammer. I'm not going much further until spring. If by chance it decides to cooperate and break loose on its own with use over the rest of the season, I'll deal with it then. The grade 5 is small enough that there is slight play in the hole. NOTHING like the pin was... This allows my a little access to spray the PBlaster in with a straw. Otherwise it'll have to wait.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

man, why did you either bother asking for help if you ain't gonna do it right?


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

orangputeh, I have to say I'm surprised at your response. We've "conversed" before and had some decent conversations and advice. In the past I've respected your advice. I certainly didn't see this coming. 

<<why did you either bother asking for help if you ain't gonna do it right? >>

But since you ask, the reason(s) I bothered are for starters, I didn't know what I was up against when I found the two issues. So I thought this might be a good place for advice. I've been here before and had favorable responses. Second, between my workshop situation and not having full use of both hands at this time, it makes it difficult to take much action at this time. I was unaware that by participating in the forum I was obligated to take action on any and all advice given. 

From a mechanical standpoint (I trust your response is regarding my temporary solution of a smaller pin in the axle). What harm can it do? It's frozen anyway. The pin is not protecting nor mechanically driving anything at this point. The only good that could POSSIBLY come form this is that over the course of the rest of the season it MAY loosen up, saving me the arduous task of heating, pulling, banging, pressing etc. to get it off. 

What's the worst that could happen? It loosens up, I don't see it immediately assuming I run the machine 50 more hours (highly unlikely as I probably run the machine 20 hours a season) and it distorts the holes in the hub, like the left one. Even if the wheel binds up. The thinner grade 5 bolt is going to sacrifice with MUCH less force than the original pin would have.

I just don't understand why you're so jammed. What do I have to lose by doing this at this time?


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## TVRPAUL (Feb 18, 2021)

pjw73nh said:


> I have two issues with my 1999 HS928 W. It has a worn (distorted) clevis pin hole in the left wheel hub (not the driven axle). This results in some play in that wheel (left). The right one is "rust welded" to the drive axle. The left one is under the oil drain, thus it has been fairly well oiled over the years. The right one? Not so much.
> 
> What is the best way to deal with the distorted hole in the wheel hub. New hub? Drill bolt the hub AND axle out a bit and use the next bigger size pin? Oddly enough, it is only one of the holes on one side of the hub.
> 
> ...


when you are ready to get them off, I would start WD 40 them to death


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## TVRPAUL (Feb 18, 2021)

pjw73nh said:


> I have two issues with my 1999 HS928 W. It has a worn (distorted) clevis pin hole in the left wheel hub (not the driven axle). This results in some play in that wheel (left). The right one is "rust welded" to the drive axle. The left one is under the oil drain, thus it has been fairly well oiled over the years. The right one? Not so much.
> 
> What is the best way to deal with the distorted hole in the wheel hub. New hub? Drill bolt the hub AND axle out a bit and use the next bigger size pin? Oddly enough, it is only one of the holes on one side of the hub.
> 
> ...


WD 40


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

TVRPAUL said:


> WD 40


There might be a few things more appropriate than Water Displacement 40 for penetrating... PB Blaster, for example.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

One thing to be careful of when drilling new holes in an axle. You can weaken the axle by doing that, removing the metal.
Just something to think about before drilling new holes in it, or even re-drilling the existing holes out to a larger diameter to place a thicker pin in.
You should be O.K. cross drilling the wheel hub at a 90 degree angle, but I'd be a little worried about doing that to the axle.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

ST1100A said:


> You should be O.K. cross drilling the wheel hub at a 90 degree angle, but I'd be a little worried about doing that to the axle.


If you cross drilled the hub at 90 degrees to the original diameter, why would you cross drill the axle?


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I’d assume risk of snapping the axle. Removing all that material on the same axis...


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> I’d assume risk of snapping the axle. Removing all that material on the same axis...


And again, why drill the axle at all? If the hub has been cross drilled to the original pin diameter, wouldn't the original axle hole be used?


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## TVRPAUL (Feb 18, 2021)

tabora said:


> There might be a few things more appropriate than Water Displacement 40 for penetrating... PB Blaster, for example.


I agree with that, 100% but I have had good luck with my WD 40, I know the history of it, but I guess I never had a really bad problem that this did not work for me??


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

tabora said:


> If you cross drilled the hub at 90 degrees to the original diameter, why would you cross drill the axle?


If the axle hole is worn which I see many people do and I warn them they made a big mistake doing that.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

tabora said:


> And again, why drill the axle at all? If the hub has been cross drilled to the original pin diameter, wouldn't the original axle hole be used?


To get all of the slop out. It’ll work for a while. Then welding and re drilling will be the only route. 

Click pins are all well and good but I’d almost prefer a splined or keyed hub zero slop. I might drill a shouldered bolt to fasten the wheel and axle together on the snapper and simplicity.


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

I'd start soaking the frozen axle w/ PB, Kroil, or the penetrating brand of your choice, and keep soaking it say every week or so. Put a rag under the pinned joint so you don't stink up the garage by spilling the stuff on the concrete floor. If you end up using the snowblower, check the axle every half hour or so, I'd not want the undersized bolt in there for long because you might damage the axle's hole.

If it does not free up on its own, you can get a mushroom head for an air impact hammer. Use this not on the end of the shaft, but on the side to vibrate the rusted parts loose. Good luck.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

+1 kroil


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Minor update: I have been spraying it with PBlaster since my first post. Both the end of the axle and the hub/axle holes (with pin removed). I rotate the wheel so the hole is horizontal. I think it provides a little better penetration at that angle.

I was talking to an auto mechanic friend of mine yesterday and he suggested trying this to remove the hub from the axle. He has one he is going to loan me. An induction heater. Apparently, I lead a sheltered life. I've never even heard of one of these until yesterday.










On the elongated hole project. I LOVE the idea of cross drilling the hub hole. Thus sparing the axle from weakening. I suspect I'd need to remove the tire and two hub halves to get a perfectly straight shot at the hub. My tires still have the 1999 air in them. Any thing I need to be aware of when splitting the rims? Should I be able to reuse the gasket? 

I notice that the hubs are no longer available. That they "redirect" you over to a new, one piece wheel design.


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

The old hubs tend to leak and have been a problem for a lot of folks. That's part of the reason for the change to a one piece wheel. Induction heaters have been around for a long time. I was melting 5000# of a nickle-iron master alloy in induction furnaces in the mid 70's. Since you are using heat, be careful, you might toast the tire. You will see how the halves separate and that will answer your question about the gasket. Based on recommendations here, I upgraded my wheels to the new one piece ones (around $50 each) and the tires to Carlisle tires (iirc, about 50 for the pair). Be forewarned, if you do the upgrade, mounting the tires is nearly impossible unless you have the strength of a gorilla, 4 hands, and a few tire irons...or a power tire mounting machine.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Thanks Wrenchit. I was hoping the induction heater would be a far better solution than my OA torch. Are the new one piece Honda rims any different from an other power equipment rims of similar size? I've got a bead breaker and I've done a fair amount of these by hand(s). Sometimes 4 hands. Do you recall which Carlisles you purchased? Or perhaps the size? I have 16x4x6 Snow Grip II on there now. The new ones are around $100 each from Honda. I was hoping for an aftermarket tire, but can't find any with that size. Will other (close) sizes work? The clearance between the tire and the main box frame of the machine it pretty darn close.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

Penetrating lubricant is all well and good but sometimes you simply need HEAT. Oxygen acetylene will get metal cherry red IF you need that much heat. Plus you can cut with it.

I have a miniducter which has been excellent. It will get metal to glow a bit but not cherry, but to be honest, in most cases it doesn’t need to be cherry red.

16x4x6 is a strange size, is that exactly what the current tire says on the sidewall?


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

You will have more control with the induction heater. It is usually used to heat bolts or nuts, and they then unscrew. If that coil fits over your axle/snout on the wheel, all will be good. Just watch the heat and have some water nearby to cool the wheel if the heat starts spreading.

I found the rims to be very similar to auto rims - so i assume they are similar to other power equipment. The Carlisle tires I bought were Carlisle X-trac 15x5.00-6 2 ply. I found them on ebay for 79.94/pair shipped. These arrived distorted, as if that fat lady who sings had been sitting on them for several months. It took a bead blaster at my friend's auto service station to inflate one of them. Mounting them was so hard (I did one) that I took the second to my local power equip. dealer and they mounted it. Note that the direction of rotation for the tires is imprinted on the sidewall, and you have two wheels that only go on the axles with the 'snout' pointing outward. Thus, they turn in opposite directions - be careful mounting the tires lest you have to remove one and remount it.

I found the wheels by doing a search for the part number. Pantanopower Equipment had them for 69.90 (81.85 w/ shipping) a pair. I visited their website several times, and if I approached the website via the search, I got the $35 per wheel, but if I went to the website, the price was around $50/each. 

Those Carlisle tires are slightly larger than the OEM tires, they fit on the wheels perfectly, and the snowblower will be raised a bit higher, requiring adjusting of the shoes and scraper bar.

Good luck.


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

PS.... Inflate them to 20 lbs max. I think someone here suggested an op pressure of 14 psi. My wheels were OEM Honda Wheels. You will need valves for the wheels... I used Honda's for around $2 each. I decided I did not need 8 vaves from Amazon (well, I dislike Amazon anyway) and auto parts stores were more expensive. Since I've been buying pieces parts for my HS828, I just picked up the valve stems at the dealer.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

If you re-use the old style 2 piece wheels, grease the 'Pan-Cake' gasket or 'O' ring between the wheel halves with 'Sil-Glide' silicone grease available at N.A.P.A. auto parts stores to preserve and protect the rubber and help seal it, then it will work.
They are a lot easier to change tires with than the 1 piece rim. If they develop an air leak, it is because the Pancake gasket is dried out or cracked and needs to be sealed, sometimes replaced. They last a long time if taken care of.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

Thanks to all that replied. I appreciate the input. Drmerdp, Good catch. yes, the tire size was my error.. they are "14" x 4 x 6. Not 16. 

With no snow in the foreseeable forecast, and some warmer Wx on the way, I decided to have a go at the rusted hub. Regretfully it was a fail. Bear in mind I have spraying both sides of the hub 2-3x daily with PBlaster for about 10 days. Yesterday, I first tried the induction heater. I didn't want to get the hub so hot that it damaged the tire or the gasket. So I couldn't leave the heat on it for too long. I did get it pretty hot, but not cherry.

Today, I "built" a puller that I thought for sure would do the job. All it did was bend the 3/8 steel bar.After tensioning it, I tried hitting it with a dead-blow hammer (within reason) and I also tried an air hammer. Also within reason. I was concerned about damaging the output gearbox. I've left it under tension, and for now, I'm going to tighten it up a turn or two each day and hope for a miracle.

Unless it's a time thing, I am out of ideas except sacrificing the tire, rim and hub. I don't think I'm there yet, but I was thinking as a last ditch effort, drill a hole in the rim/hub just above the "sleeve", and then use a sawzall with a steel blade to cut a slice into the hub sleeve.

You can see few picture here: Rusted Hub pics

Thanks.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

pjw73nh said:


> Minor update: I have been spraying it with PBlaster since my first post. Both the end of the axle and the hub/axle holes (with pin removed). I rotate the wheel so the hole is horizontal. I think it provides a little better penetration at that angle.
> 
> I was talking to an auto mechanic friend of mine yesterday and he suggested trying this to remove the hub from the axle. He has one he is going to loan me. An induction heater. Apparently, I lead a sheltered life. I've never even heard of one of these until yesterday.
> 
> ...


did i already mention that when I split these rims I install tubes? yes the gasket is pretty sturdy so can reuse unless it breaks I guess. 

i may even try welding up a little of the hole and redrilling . i do that on elongated shear pin holes on augers but cross drilling is about the same.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

If you heat take the air out of the tires. 

I would try Kroil, never heard of PB Blaster until I looked it up, Kroil has been the go to penetrate since man first came out of the caves.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

RC20 said:


> If you heat take the air out of the tires.
> 
> I would try Kroil, never heard of PB Blaster until I looked it up, Kroil has been the go to penetrate since man first came out of the caves.


UPDATE: I've been using Kroil for several days. left the puller on the whole time. Tightening it up each day and hitting cautiously with a hammer. No dice. Finally today I pulled out my OA torch and made some protective heat baffles from old license plates.

I heated up the hub sleeve cherry red inside and out. The da*n thing wouldn't budge. It's on there. I let it cool and then bolted the tire and rim halves back up to the hub. I filled it with 10 psi and will check it tomorrow. If it doesn't leak I'll deal with the hub when I have to. More than likely it will be a tire issue when it DOES happen.

My feeling is that the clevis pins on the end of the axle don't appear to be "shear" pins. Simply clevises to hold the wheels on. If it's not going to be acting as a mechanical "fuse", what's the difference if the wheel is rusted on, or clevis pinned on. Any damage from a bound wheel will still be the same.

If I can't get the hub off in a re-usable fashion, I have sort of resigned myself to getting two new wheels, tires and tubes if it comes to that.

Any other things to try?


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

You cant get enough leverage the above mentioned way. 

Undo the hub from the wheel so the tire is not close to the hub and wont get damaged with heat. 
Clean up the axle right below the hub, good enough till you have no rust and the hub can move down without any restriction.
Find a impact socket that has the same OD as the hub, larger than the axle ID. 
Heat up the hub, put the socket on the hub (make sure to wear good eye/hand protection). 
Hit it till the the hub starts moving down, you dont have to move the hub all the way down, just enough so you can break free from the rust thats holding it on. 
Once the hub has moved down then spray on some penetrant.
At this point you should be able to use pipe wrench to wiggle it off. 

I have used this method in the past a few times with success, I only have access to MAP gas at this point so if you have OA set up it'd be even better.


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## pjw73nh (Jan 29, 2015)

JnC said:


> You cant get enough leverage the above mentioned way.
> 
> Undo the hub from the wheel so the tire is not close to the hub and wont get damaged with heat.
> Clean up the axle right below the hub, good enough till you have no rust and the hub can move down without any restriction.
> ...


JnC, Thanks for the reply. I did have the wheel off the hub and held back away from the hub/sleeve when I was heating. It got completely red. But I like the suggestions on the rest of your post. 

I am concerned about hammering with so much force, and twisting with a pipe wrench against the axle and the output gearbox. I don't want to damage it.

Tnx.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

If you can take off the other side tire and stand the chassis on its side so the whole chassis is set on the axle then the blows from the hammer wont get transferred to the gearbox. 

If you jig it up in a vise then the leverage you apply to turn the hub wont get transferred to the gearbox again.


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