# drain the gas or not?



## Dave C (Jan 26, 2015)

It looks like it's time to put the snowblowers away for the season, and I'm trying to decide what to do with the fuel system. In my experience, carb issues are the number 1 headache when dealing with seasonal machines and now that I have 2 machines working perfectly I'd like to give them the best chance of firing up next season.

I'm thinking a full tank of stabilized gas, fuel shutoff off, and drain the carb bowls. Is that standard practice around here?

TIA


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Nothing in the tank, nothing in the lines, nothing in the carb...every last drop...and dump it in the car. I even drop a clean rag into the tank to soak up the remnants then purge the fuel line with seafoam.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

If you are doing the fuel shutoff and draining the carbs, I dont see much point to the full tank of gas..most people do either:

1. Full gas in the whole system, tank, fuel lines, and carb.
or.
2. No gas in the system at all.

Dave, your post is the first time I have heard of a half-and-half! 
could work though..there is a lot of subjectivity and personal preference in this procedure..

There are pros and cons of each:

1. Full gas in the system, tank, fuel lines, and carb.

Pro: Gas in the lines is said to keep things "lubricated", keeps gaskets from drying out. 
Pro: if you have gas in all the lines, and full in the carb, in theory there is too much gas for it to evaporate away completely, causing varnish.

Con: In reality, the gas can still dry out in places, like the fuels lines and in the carb, causing varnish and sticky gunk issues..starting up the machine once a month or so might mitigate that problem. 
Con: Gas goes bad quickly these days..even with stabilizer I wouldn't trust gas that is more than a month old..which means after 7 months of the summer storage season, you have a full gallon of gas, per machine, that is basically useless..you have to drain it and dispose of it. It is said you can slowly dump it into the car's gas tank, but I wouldn't want to do that to my car.
Con: if you do your annual maintenance in the fall, you have to drain out the gas before you can tip the machine up on its handlebars to do the internal lubing/greasing..easier if the gas just isnt there to start with.

2. No gas in the system at all.

Pro: No gas to dry out and gunk up! in theory. 
Pro: Dont have to start up and run the machine once a month, you can just leave it alone all summer.
Pro: in the fall, there is no gas to get in the way of annual lubing/grease/seasonal maintenance. can tip the machine up on the bucket with no gas to drip out. 
(some do the annual maintenance in the spring, I do it in the fall.)
Pro: in the fall, there is no old stale gas to deal with to get the machine up and running..just fill the tank with fresh gas, and she should fire right up.

Con: Can you really get *all* the gas out? perhaps not..there is a chance some will be left behind in small areas, like the gas lines, which could dry out and cause varnish..how real is this concern? dont know, but IMO its not a major concern.
Con: In theory, gaskets can "dry out"..IMO, this one is also more myth than reality..people have been draining the gas from the equipment, for storage, for 60 years..never hear of real problems from the "full drain" method..

For a few years, I did method 1 during the summer..leaving gas in. I have since changed my mind and now I do the "full drain" method..I think its better to simply have no gas in the system at all..drain the gas tank, disconnect the gas line to the carb, let the gas drip out, remove the carb bowl, wipe it clean with a rag..leave the carb apart, gas lines loose, gas cap off with a rag stuffed loosly in the gs cap hole (to prevent dirt from getting in) and let the whole thing sit for a few days..to allow things to "air out" and let the little bits of remaining gas evaporate away..then re-assemble everything, and shes ready to snooze away the next 7 months..

Scot


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## Prof100 (Feb 9, 2015)

Dave,

My preference is like Scot -- run it dry. Below are two experience with both running dry and stabilizing the fuel. 

*RUN DRY*
Run the engine dry, drain the system and the like. My 1983 Honda single stage starts up every season when I refuel. My 1989 Bolens same thing. 

*STABILZED FUEL*
However, my *2005 Troy Bilt / Briggs powered* 7800 watt, 7 gallon tank generator was left with stabilized fuel in it for 3 years before starting again due to daily living distractions (2 aged parents going through hospice care, wife's cancer and recovery). I used both Stabil and Ethanol Shield. It sat longer than I imagined (since 2011). Went to start it and the 10 year AGM battery had died. Jump started it and it started right up. I installed a new battery and now must determine whether it is best to drain the fuel or add more stabilizer.

*Honda 250 cc dirt bike* had the same fuel in it for almost a decade and every 6 months I would stabilize the fuel. This was a low use dirt bike. That is it sat most the time in my storage shed. It started every time including the day I sold it. Albeit, the kick starting took some repeated attempts to fire up.

So, what does this tell you? One, draining fuel so the tank and carb are dry works from end of season until next season. Two, it also tells you that stabilized fuel can keep your fuel from going really bad. 

Now that I have confused you even more it's OK to have questions.  There is a third option which is do nothing which is what my neighbor did with 1989 Bolens when it would not start so he rolled to the curb the night before trash pick up. When I opened up the carb I found it was green with algae. He did that 2 years and I dragged it home, rebuilt the carb, replaced the rubber parts and I used it this winter.

Bill


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## pckeen (Nov 13, 2014)

Ariens just put out a reccomendation to fill the tank with stabilized fuel, and then run stablized fuel through the blower for a few minutes, before switching the fuel shut off...off, then letting the blower run until it runs out of fuel.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

pckeen said:


> Ariens just put out a reccomendation to fill the tank with stabilized fuel, and then run stablized fuel through the blower for a few minutes, before switching the fuel shut off...off, then letting the blower run until it runs out of fuel.


Interesting! perhaps that where Dave got the "full tank but dry carb" idea..thats a new one for me! 

I suppose the full tank prevents the inside of the tank from rusting? thats the only benefit I can think of..

Scot


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

If the tank is plastic there is no reason it needs to be full, I'd drain the system. If the tank is metal, I'd say stabilized fuel to protect it from condensation and rusting inside. Dry carb either way with me. That's the method I have the best luck with after trying it both ways.


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## Blue Hill (Mar 31, 2013)

I use non ethanol fuel, treat it with Seafoam anyway and leave it as is. I also do the fogging oil routine in the cylinder.


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## rfsdave (Mar 9, 2015)

Right or wrong, this works for me. 
I use marine stabilizer and premium fuel in every tank. You never know how log it's going to sit. I don't drain anything or run the carb out of fuel. I do shut off the fuel though. After sitting for months, I just turn on the fuel, hit the primer a couple times, choke it and it fires up one or two pulls. 
This has worked on my lawn mower and KTM dirt bikes as well. 
My thinking is, the engine will stop running long before the carb is dry, and the small amount of fuel left in the carb will varnish and gum up quicker than a larger amount. The only way to get a carb truly dry is to take it apart, hit all the jets with choke cleaner then blow it out with compressed air. Then you may have to worry about gaskets and rubber parts drying out. 
This is just my opinion, but as I said, it works for me.
Dave


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## whimsey (Oct 16, 2014)

I committed a mortal sin with my 2005 pressure washer, I let it sit for ~7 years with untreated E10 fuel drying out totally in the carb and tank. I didn't think it would start but the 4.5 HP B&S flat head engine started after about 5 pulls after I sprayed the carb with carb cleaner, and it ran great. I had to replace the pump from lack of use. But for about $110 for a new pump I got a working pressure washer. I leave fuel in my generator's tank and carb but I start and run it for at least 1/2 hour under load every 3 months. My snow blower I'll run dry in the tank and carb as per the owner's manual.

Whimsey


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## Surge (Dec 31, 2013)

I take out as much gas as possible with a turkey baster, then run the blower until it runs out of gas. Been doing that for four years and it starts up with one pull first time in winter.
I have been doing the same with my nine year old mower, and with the same results. 
Only difference is that I also drain the carb on the mower by removing the bottom screw. 
No seals or o rings have dried up on me, but I garage my equipment. If I left my equipment outside in a shed then I might go with the full tank with stabilizer method to avoid drying out, or moisture depending on the local climate conditions.


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## Ken05 (Feb 13, 2015)

I'm with Pathfinder that it depends what tank you have. Plastic tank drain everything toss in a dab of stabil to slosh around and go in the carb. Metal tank, drain the lines and carb and maybe toss a little stabil or seafoam in the lines and carb and fill the tank all the way full of non ethanol gas, stabil, seafoam and I aslo like to put some two stroke oil in the tank as well to stave off rust. Nothing worse than a rusted tank


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I'd say yes, definitely in a lot of cases but in others no. 

There is no answer to this question as "we" do it both ways because each way has worked well for the person choosing it. Lots and lots of threads debating the virtues of each if you just take the time to search.

It's like asking about synthetic oil or best brand of spark plug. They go on for pages and pages.


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## Dave C (Jan 26, 2015)

You guys are awesome. Ask 10 snow freaks a question and get 12 answers.

My motorcycle has a steel tank and I always leave it full of stabilized gas at the end of the riding season. Theory on that is that there's less room for moisture to condense and cause rust.

My old Craftsman snow blower had a badly corroded carburetor when I tried to get it ready this November. White deposits of something or other that would NOT come off with cleaning.

So... therein lies the basis behind my thoughts of full tank, empty carb. But yes, the blower tanks are plastic so there's no reason to keep them full. I think I'll take the empty tank empty bowl path this year and see how it goes.

Thanks guys.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

If you have a number of pieces of equipment, are lazy or just want a new tool the battery operated kerosene pump works great to pump your tank dry so you can fire it up and run the remains out of the tank and the carb dry.
It's also even better at filling. I keep a 6gal gas can in a garden cart and just wheel it up to the riding mower, blower ... and it's so much handier than lifting that sucker and trying to hit that little hole when the can is close to full.
Usually under fifteen bucks at walmart or a big box store.

I love the 10 guys, 12 answers. It's really true.


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## guilateen02 (Nov 23, 2014)

Im a Star tron guy. I have a 14 gallon fuel container with its own pump and nozzle. I usually fill it and add it right in. I dont drain or let run dry any of my equipment. . I have a few metal tanks from bikes to tractors. I have yet to have any carb or tank rust issues since I started this setup. I have 12 engines right now and seasonal prep for the carb is just a nuisance. Check out Norther Tool I bought my tank for 70 on sale a few years back.


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## Center Mass (Mar 11, 2015)

classiccat said:


> Nothing in the tank, nothing in the lines, nothing in the carb...every last drop...and dump it in the car. I even drop a clean rag into the tank to soak up the remnants then purge the fuel line with seafoam.



This.

Sounds so thorough, I should get you to do mine for me. Salute.


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## RoyP (Oct 16, 2014)

Pathfinder13 said:


> If the tank is plastic there is no reason it needs to be full, I'd drain the system. If the tank is metal, I'd say stabilized fuel to protect it from condensation and rusting inside. Dry carb either way with me. That's the method I have the best luck with after trying it both ways.


I could not have said it better....this is my way to go


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## Stuofsci02 (Feb 16, 2015)

pckeen said:


> Ariens just put out a reccomendation to fill the tank with stabilized fuel, and then run stablized fuel through the blower for a few minutes, before switching the fuel shut off...off, then letting the blower run until it runs out of fuel.


This is exactly what I have been doing with my previous blower and the engine has never had any issue.. Always starts easy next season...


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## KennyW in CT (Feb 24, 2015)

On tanks I've stored full (only metal ones), at the beginning of the season I take the fuel line off the shut-off valve (put one on if you don't have one) and drain out a few ounces, then hook the line back up. There will always be schmutz at the bottom of the tank (water, sediment, etc) and I make sure I drain it out and dispose of first. I always wondered why they did away with sediment bowl shutoffs. They work great and show you the trapped garbage and water in the fuel.


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## lee h (Jan 18, 2015)

I run AV 100LL gas in all my OPE and have never had any issues. 
I know it's not available to everyone but it is here and works very 
well for me. Has an endless shelf life. I have never had any luck 
with fuel stabilizers so i don't bother with those. I also start my
seasonal equipment every couple months.
Ethanol fuel is the number one killer to fuel systems and if thats
what most are using i would drain the complete system.


Lee


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## Bror Jace (Jan 13, 2015)

My Ariens has a plastic tank. Even my Dad's, which is a handful of years older than mine, has a plastic fuel tank. Today, I took off two of the shrouds and could get at the fuel line. I turned the fuel shut-off to "off," removed the clamp and pulled the fuel line off the carburetor. This is how I drained the tank. 

I reconnected the line then put a tiny amount of new, B&S fuel stabilizer and about a dozen ounces of fresh fuel (bought today) in the tank ... and shook it. I don't want to leave the fuel system dry. Don;t want any seals to dry out ... although i have to admit that's unlikely.

Probably next weekend, I'll start it up and run it for about 5-10 minutes, making sure the fresh fuel and stabilizer makes it into the carb. Then I'll fog it down (and hit the kill switch) and squirt some fogging oil in the spark plug hole. This is what I keep my original Champion spark plug for. I'll use that when starting the engine next fall to burn off the fogging oil.

I still need to lubricate some metal parts, grease it and drain the oil so I can put it in the service position. I want to thoroughly clean and re-lube the axle lock that has been sticking for the past rear or more.


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## SnowG (Dec 5, 2014)

classiccat said:


> Nothing in the tank, nothing in the lines, nothing in the carb...every last drop...and dump it in the car. I even drop a clean rag into the tank to soak up the remnants then purge the fuel line with seafoam.


That clean rag might leave tiny fibers or lint. Might be safer to leave the cap off a day or two to let it air dry. I'm with the "tank full, lines and carb empty" camp, if the tank is metal. If it's plastic I drain it but don't bother drying it, as I figure next season's fresh gas will dilute any stabilized residual. (I use stabilizer and run ethanol-free all the time). 

The only tank I've ever dried out completely is on my generator after I converted it to run on natural gas that's piped to my barbeque with a quick connect fitting. It can still run dual-fuel but I don't plan on running gasoline in it again (unless it has to go to the repair shop and they need to put gasoline into it).


edit: I siphon off stored gas and start each season fresh. The old gas gets diluted in my car's tank with no ill effects.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Here's a thought...
*Read your owner's'manual for off season storage guidance.*
If you don't own a'manual you can almost always find a pdf manual online. 
I have the manuals for my honda generator, my Sno Tec blower, my 523 ss blower and etc... 
Just saying
Page from the Honda generator manual for long term storage.


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

Dave C said:


> It looks like it's time to put the snowblowers away for the season, and I'm trying to decide what to do with the fuel system. In my experience, carb issues are the number 1 headache when dealing with seasonal machines and now that I have 2 machines working perfectly I'd like to give them the best chance of firing up next season.
> 
> I'm thinking a full tank of stabilized gas, fuel shutoff off, and drain the carb bowls. Is that standard practice around here?
> 
> TIA


 metal tank- if you drain the gas, best have the machine stored indoors, with the gas cap off. this way condensation won't build up and rust the inside of the tank. 

stored outside, like mine are, best to keep the tank topped off full, with stabil in it, acts like a rust inhibitor. because the biggest enemy of metal gas tanks, is rust. ask me how I know...had to repair many of mine, and replace a few.

plastic tank- you can just drain the gas tank dry. 

drain the carb, regardless of metal or plastic tank. every time I leave this crappy alcohol gas in the tank, it absorbs moisture and the machine eventually will be hard to start or will stall for no apparent reason. 

the gas we have today is really lousy compared to the gas we used to have pre-2000


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## SnowdIn (Feb 12, 2015)

I have always drained the fuel and run it dry in all my equipment. Here's why: One spring I had a problem with my garden tractor on the first start-up of the season. It would run for 2-3 minutes then stall and would not restart. If it sat for a minute or so, (like the wait I do for a flooded engine) it would start and have the same problem. To make a long story short, I found small bb-sized globs of some kind of congealed/gelled substance in the fuel line. There was a section that was lower than the carb and there must have been a small amount of fuel left in there that didn't get drained when I ran it dry. The fuel gelled and went bad over the winter and raised heck. My theory was that this stuff was blocking the fuel needle in the bowl just enough to cause the stall, but not enough to keep the bowl from slowly re-filling again. I cleaned everything out and it started fine. It may also have been a case where the fuel line itself was restricted just enough to prevent the fuel delivery necessary to keep the engine running. (Side note: These Kohler engines are very fussy about needing an OEM Kohler fuel filter to run correctly; using the standard clear Deere filter supplied in their maintenance kits causes fuel supply problems.)

Lesson learned. Since this happened, I now also disconnect the fuel line at the carb at the end of the season, blow it out with compressed air and then leave it disconnected to completely air-dry over the winter. I leave the fuel tank cap a little loose as well, and use the little carb drain on the bowl to purge that last little bit of fuel that's always left in there.

Today's alcohol-laced fuels are awful. My tractor runs worse if the fuel is more than 30 days old. (John Deere 16hp Kohler Command). Definitely sensitive to the age of the fuel. On the other hand, the Tecumseh Snow King on the Power Shift doesn't seem to care how old the fuel is. Just the same, I turn off the fuel supply and run it dry after each use.


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