# Regular or Premium gasoline?



## Guerzy

Hello,

Yesterday I purchased a CRAFTSMAN®/MD 24" Dual Stage 305cc B&S EZ-Steer Snow Blower at Sears. When making the purchase, the sale associate told me (stressing it about 3 times in our conversation) to use premium gas and not regular gas. She said regular gas "would muck up the engine".

I'm just a bit confused. We have used Craftsman snow blowers in my family for the last 12-13 years with great luck and no issues, and have always used regular gasoline. The manual just states "Regular gasoline".

Does anyone here have any insight or recommendations on this?

This is the model I purchased:

CRAFTSMAN®/MD 24" Dual Stage 305cc B&S EZ-Steer Snow Blower | Sears Canada


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## Stuofsci02

Regular is fine. In general, the concern is ethanol in the gas which makes it absorb moisture much faster which will foul carbs, etc. The shelf life is only about 60-90 days. This gets people into trouble on small engines since they can sit for a lot of time with the gas in them.

Sometimes premium is ethanol free in which case it would be better, but there is no guarantee that the premium is ethanol free.

In general, if you use regular E10 (standard pump gas) then add fuel stabilizer to each can of gas you pick up. When I turn my blower off and I know it won't be used for a few weeks or more, I use the gas shutoff valve and let the carb run dry.

Other than that E10 is the world we live in now...


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## Loco-diablo

Regular 87 octane (E10). Once a month I dump what's left in my 2.5 gallon gas can into my truck and refill the can with fresh gas. 
Because I keep the gas fresh, I don't use stabilizer during the season while my equipment is in use. I only use it when storing the equipment.


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## unknown1

You can probably get ethanol-free gas near you.

Check this link:
Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

Word on the street from my research says..

The ethanol attracts water which breaks down into acid. That, combined with the tendency to turn gas into varnish over time, is the main reason to avoid ethanol-laced gas. Highest octane is preferred.. it stops engines running hot.

Many manufacturers explicitly warn against high ethanol content.

By the way, this is especially important on tiny engines such as leaf blowers.


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## ztnoo

I think what the sales person was trying to caution you about is ethanol added fuels (but didn't state her case correctly). If you can generally stay away from them and have access to ethanol free gas, it would be a good idea to consider using it. I think most manufacturers are recommending using regular.

You might find reviewing a recent thread of fuels helpful:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...ussion/76537-todays-gasoline-really-crap.html

* Interesting note in the Sears link you provided under "Questions & answers":
"Please be advised that the CRAFTSMAN®/MD 24" Dual Stage 305cc B&S EZ-Steer Snow Blower is manufactured by *Husqvarna Canada*, while its engine is manufactured by Briggs & Stratton."

I don't however find any Husky snowblower sold in CA currently listed with the 305cc engine your unit has. Sears must have speced that particular engine if Husky actually made the snowblower.


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## classiccat

to add what the guys above already said here...frequently discussed topic and understandably so. 

Ethanol is hygroscopic resulting in the attraction & absorption of water...

...consequently the water sinks to the bottom of the holding vessel since it's heavier than fuel...bottom = where the tank outlet is.

...it ends-up in the bottom of the carb float bowl...where the fuel enters the delivery ports.

(side-note: it's a death-blow to premix engines...like most 2-strokes...since they rely on the fuel for lubrication)

the salesman wasn't entirely wrong...octane rating does degrades over time...and you may have pre-ignition issues if it gets too low...assuming you can even get it to run with all of the water already in your gas :laugh:

net: try to get ethanol-free fuel. if you have to get e10 fuel, 87 is fine as long as it's reasonably fresh (0-3months)...and use a stabilizer (3 good ones that immediately come to mind are marine-stabil, startron, sea-foam).


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## skutflut

Guerzy said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm just a bit confused. We have used Craftsman snow blowers in my family for the last 12-13 years with great luck and no issues, and have always used regular gasoline. The manual just states "Regular gasoline".
> 
> Anyone here have any insight or recommendations on this?
> 
> This is the model I purchased:
> 
> CRAFTSMAN®/MD 24" Dual Stage 305cc B&S EZ-Steer Snow Blower | Sears Canada


You can use regular as long as its not over 10% ethanol. If you do, don't buy too much at once, and use a stabilizer designed for ethanol (STP has one) and don't keep it around for too long. I keep the tank full to limit condensataion and run the carb dry when shutting off the machine so there is no gas left in the carb, but that's just me. I had to add the fuel shutoff valve to my Craftsman. Mine has a B&S 305cc engine as well, 2008 vintage, and its run fine on regular 10% ethanol since new.

You can get ethernol free gas at Shell, their V+ nitrogen premium blend fuel. That avoids the possible problems with ethanol and water contamination.


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## Kiss4aFrog

:welcome: to the forum Guerzy



Regular gas without alcohol, mid W/O, Premium W/O in that order, and if none of those are available, regular with. 

I recommend adding a little Marine Stabil to the gas can but it depends on how long you hang on to it and if you remember to use it when you store stuff. The more equipmemt you have the more likely you are to forget something.

Like loco diablo mentioned I also dump my older gas into my vehicle especially the 2 cycle. The regular gas I seem to go through easily but with the 2 cycle I only mix a gallon at a time and I still seem to need to dump it a couple times a year.


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## Can2Ten

here are the link for Co-op gas here in Canada about ethanol content between regular and premium gas.

http://crs.coopconnection.ca/files/PetroSpecs-GASOLINE.pdf


regular are good plus good maintenance of mach

premium are much better but pricey plus good maintenance too.


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## greatwhitebuffalo

Guerzy said:


> Hello,
> 
> Yesterday I purchased a CRAFTSMAN®/MD 24" Dual Stage 305cc B&S EZ-Steer Snow Blower at Sears. When making the purchase, the sale associate told me (stressing it about 3 times in our conversation) to use premium gas and not regular gas. She said regular gas "would muck up the engine".
> 
> I'm just a bit confused. We have used Craftsman snow blowers in my family for the last 12-13 years with great luck and no issues, and have always used regular gasoline. The manual just states "Regular gasoline".
> 
> Anyone here have any insight or recommendations on this?
> 
> This is the model I purchased:
> 
> CRAFTSMAN®/MD 24" Dual Stage 305cc B&S EZ-Steer Snow Blower | Sears Canada




he's right. I noticed that the premium lasts longer and runs better in small engines, mainly cuz the alcohol and fuel don't separate and turn to slush and goo in the gas tank, lines, and carburetor, as badly as the regular does.
regular gas is really junk today.


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## ELaw

classiccat said:


> Ethanol is hygroscopic resulting in the attraction & absorption of water...
> 
> ...consequently the water sinks to the bottom of the holding vessel since it's heavier than fuel...bottom = where the tank outlet is.
> 
> ...it ends-up in the bottom of the carb float bowl...where the fuel enters the delivery ports.


With all due respect, that's a bit misleading.

Yes, ethanol does attract and mix with water. But it does not make it go to the bottom of the tank/carb! In fact it does the opposite... since alcohols mix with both fuel and water, they help the water remain in solution and pass through the system harmlessly (in theory). Water is denser than fuel and when no alcohol is present is when it will settle out to the bottom. That problem has existed for as long as gas-powered engines have, and is still a frequent problem in piston-engined airplanes.

"Drygas" and similar products that people have used for years to prevent problems from water in fuel are alcohol. And the reason it's been used for years (long before there was ethanol in fuel) is because there are numerous ways that water can get into fuel besides being attracted by ethanol. Condensation is the most common issue, but leaky gas caps can play a part and sometimes fuel comes right from the pump with water in it. Really the only water ethanol or any other alcohol is likely to attract is water that was inside the tank already. It doesn't have any magical ability to pull water through the tank walls or make it appear out of nowhere.

It's probably pretty obvious from the above but I just don't buy that gas with ethanol is to blame for every single carb problem on small engines. Could it be a contributing factor in some cases? Probably. But I've been working on small engines for over 40 years, and was dealing with corroded carbs and fuel tanks long before they started putting ethanol in gas.


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## NJHonda

I use premium gas too. The additives are better in the premium so the shelf life is a bit better then regular gas.


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## mobiledynamics

Standard Octane IMO is more than sufficient for a small engine.
Not gonna get any ~boost~ by going higher octane or any benefit IMO. 
The shelf life is what it is IMO.

All gas takes on some level of moisture. MTBE as well. It's just a matter of how long. Especially in a vented system that is designed to breathe.

IMO, fresh standard grade gas is the net ailment when operating OPE. Granted, much lesser used items like a chainsaw, etc, FS may be more beneficial


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## classiccat

ELaw said:


> With all due respect, that's a bit misleading.
> 
> Yes, ethanol does attract and mix with water. But it does not make it go to the bottom of the tank/carb! In fact it does the opposite... since alcohols mix with both fuel and water, they help the water remain in solution and pass through the system harmlessly (in theory). Water is denser than fuel and when no alcohol is present is when it will settle out to the bottom. That problem has existed for as long as gas-powered engines have, and is still a frequent problem in piston-engined airplanes.
> 
> "Drygas" and similar products that people have used for years to prevent problems from water in fuel are alcohol. And the reason it's been used for years (long before there was ethanol in fuel) is because there are numerous ways that water can get into fuel besides being attracted by ethanol. Condensation is the most common issue, but leaky gas caps can play a part and sometimes fuel comes right from the pump with water in it. Really the only water ethanol or any other alcohol is likely to attract is water that was inside the tank already. It doesn't have any magical ability to pull water through the tank walls or make it appear out of nowhere.
> 
> It's probably pretty obvious from the above but I just don't buy that gas with ethanol is to blame for every single carb problem on small engines. Could it be a contributing factor in some cases? Probably. But I've been working on small engines for over 40 years, and was dealing with corroded carbs and fuel tanks long before they started putting ethanol in gas.


Perhaps I should elaborate then...*when phase separation occurs*, a water/ethanol mixture sinks to the bottom of the holding vessel...and perhaps a layer of pure water below that.


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## ELaw

That makes sense!

I still think that for large quantities of water it probably doesn't matter, and maybe for very small quantities the alcohol would help as it would keep the water from settling out ("drygas effect"). But maybe there's a point in the middle where it makes things worse?


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## classiccat

ELaw said:


> That makes sense!
> 
> I still think that for large quantities of water it probably doesn't matter, and maybe for very small quantities the alcohol would help as it would keep the water from settling out ("drygas effect"). But maybe there's a point in the middle where it makes things worse?


The saturation point for e10 gas is ~ 0.5%. So for 1/2gal (64oz) of E10 fuel, it only takes ~ 1/3 oz of water for it to go into phase separation...which is only 2/3 of a tablespoon. 

interesting stuff...wife might start wondering where all of her mason jars have disappeared to :icon_whistling:


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## lillbear

I learn that the hard way. Here in Canada regular has up to 10% ethanol and yes it goes bad unless you use fuel stabilizer. For the last few years I been using premium never drain carb or gas tank in off season and never had a problem. I did that with regular one time and had to take the carb apart to clean it. So for the extra couple of $$ I'm a believer in premium.


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## goal80

Use Premium ethanol free. Shell' Premium is ethanol free. It's well indicated on the pump.
It's not too much expensive. You will need only 5-10 liters maximum in the winter season.
The premium make the starting easier. Instead of pulling the rope about 3-4 times, you will pull it 1 -2 times max


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## NJHonda

Shell premium is NOT ethanol free in my neck of the woods. In fact it make no such claim either on their website.

Shell V-Power NiTRO+ Premium Gasoline | Shell United States



goal80 said:


> Use Premium ethanol free. Shell' Premium is ethanol free. It's well indicated on the pump.
> It's not too much expensive. You will need only 5-10 liters maximum in the winter season.
> The premium make the starting easier. Instead of pulling the rope about 3-4 times, you will pull it 1 -2 times max


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## goal80

NJHonda said:


> Shell premium is NOT ethanol free in my neck of the woods. In fact it make no such claim either on their website.
> 
> Shell V-Power NiTRO+ Premium Gasoline | Shell United States


OK Maybe in the states it contains ethanol.
In Quebec, it's well indicated on the Shell premium pump : contains no ethanol
Also it indicated in the shell's Canadian website that premuim contains no ethanol:
"Shell V-Power NiTRO+ premium gasoline in Canada does not contain ethanol." 

Shell V-Power NiTRO+ FAQs - Canada


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## Kiss4aFrog

The ugly thing about ethanol (at least at the Koch refinery in MN) is that it isn't mixed with the gas and added to a tanker for delivery. The tanker gets it's gas first and then has the ethanol added separately at a different station inside the same plant. That's why there can be a mistake in it being truly E-10 or something else. It doesn't happen very often but it can happen.

Might be why Shell doesn't mention ethanol on it's web site. If the law allows it can go out with or without having the ethanol added.


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## pitbull plowing

i have always used premium fuel in my 2 cycle snowblowers. just got a 2 stage snowblower and debating on using premium in it as well since the gas is crap in illinois


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## Toro-8-2-4

Just an FYI. The premixed 2 cycle fuel in the can (Tru-Fuel or VIP) is 92 octane. Husquavarna 2 cycle premixed fuel is 93 octane. If a higher octane did not add any value for the 2 cycle engine, I would assume these manufacturers would not use it. By the way.......... these are all made with ethanol free gas. 


Kiss 4 a Frog......Did I understand you correctly....... you use your older 2 cycle gas in your car? No issues with cat converter or anything?


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## pitbull plowing

debating if i want to go get a gallon of gas for the 2 stage snowblower, obviously treat the gas with Amsoil fuel stabilizer and fill the tank on the snowblower even though there is no snow in sight for the next couple weeks in chicago.... i know what my marina service department recommends for boats is to keep the fuel tank full with treated fuel so it doesnt attract water. wonder if it is the same with small engines


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## Zedhead

Another thing to consider is that most cold weather states require a winter blend fuel that actually contains much more than 10% ethanol. 

Find a station that sells non-oxy fuel. For the extra $10/season it costs, it's well worth the money.


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## fIXaNYTHING

Octane is added to gasoline to INHIBIT ignition of the gas. This is a BAD thing.Higher performance engines need higher octane levels to avoid "detonation" (i.e.- pinging, pre-ignition, valve rattle, run-on, etc). Refiners justify the higher prices by adding other stuff to the gas, such as Tekron, to help clean engine deposits and such. All gasoline starts out the same and then added chemicals make up the difference. There are allowable levels of water in gasoline (as well a CNG, propane, butane, natural gas, etc). Cheaper gasolines, have higher water concentrations as well as unwanted chemicals that the refineries want to get rid of, rather than disposing of. In the 1960'-70's this was a big deal. The auto manufacturers were trying hard to make cars run cleaner. The cleaner they ran the more "junk" the refiners added, thus making the cars run dirtier. Then the Fed and EPA got involved and forced the refiners to clean up their act also, to one extent or another. This practice still goes on. In short- buy quality gasoline with the lowest octane level that your engine will run on with no problems. You can buy Tekron (I highly suggest it) from auto parts stores such as NAPA. Tekron is a GREAT additive and does wonders for fuel systems and I highly suggest it. Stay away from alcohol laced (ethanol) gasolines if possible, especially in older engines. The alcohol eats up the rubber and seals in older applications. If you have an older engine of any kind, replace the fuel lines and carb seals with new ones that are ethanol approved or alcohol resistant. The products that help remove water from gasoline is alcohol based. Water wont mix with gas (generally speaking), but alcohol will, and alcohol (the right kinds) will mix with gasoline, without precipitating the water out. Ironically- suspended water in gasoline acts much the same as octane does, it slows the burn rate and produces more power. The faster the gasoline burns in an engine the less power is produced. (SEE water injection systems for high performance cars)

-Barrett, Tooele, UT


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## Marty013

i run premium in everything... yes ive had fuel related issues once.. but thats the winter i didnt use the blower at all ( over 20 months without fresh gas) and once the old non-stabilized gas was dumped.. fresh gas in the tank.. 3 tugs and away it went


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## pearlfinish

I'm no mechanic, so don't take my word for it...but all small engine mechanics around suggest to use premium gas in all blowers, lawn mowers, etc....they say those small engines run better on premium.


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## sscotsman

I suspect that the "use premium gas" recommendation comes from the earlier days of ethanol use in gas, when early-on it was only in 87 octane, and not in the higher grades..So people started saying "use premium for small gas engines, because its better." because then, it really was..but today, most regions have 10% ethanol in ALL grades, so there is no longer any advantage to using premium. But many people (dealers, big-box employees, etc.) dont know that, and they still say "use premium", but they dont know why they are saying it..they repeat it because that's what they were told..10 years ago.

Today, most people have the choice of:

All gas has ethanol, so it doesn't really matter what you use, premium probably has no advantage.
its pretty much all equally bad, but if it's all you have, try to make the best of it.

or:

Most gas stations have 10% ethanol in all grades, and it all equally sucks.
but! you might be able to find a gas station with no ethanol gas, use that! its much better.

Scot


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## ztnoo

I think I should point out something that was mentioned almost a year ago in post #4 of this thread, authored by stuart80112

"*You can probably get ethanol-free gas near you.

Check this link:
Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada* "


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## YSHSfan

I recently purchased a Stihl BR700 leaf blower and got my Stihl BR600 serviced. 
I figured I should ask the Owner/Service Head Tech about what fuel should I use on it, his answer was always use premium. His argument was that the 10% ethanol lowers the octane and you do not really have "87" on regular, that was the main reason to use premium as the octane (after the 10% ethanol) would be higher on premium fuel and makes the small engine run better.


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## Motor City

hsblowersfan said:


> I recently purchased a Stihl BR700 leaf blower and got my Stihl BR600 serviced.
> I figured I should ask the Owner/Service Head Tech about what fuel should I use on it, his answer was always use premium. His argument was that the 10% ethanol lowers the octane and you do not really have "87" on regular, that was the main reason to use premium as the octane (after the 10% ethanol) would be higher on premium fuel and makes the small engine run better.


 He's got some crazy logic going on, there. If ethanol was diluting the gas and the octane was lowered, they wouldn't be able to label it as 87 octane.


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## HCBPH

I know this is old, but alcohol actually raises the octane rating, but it requires a larger amount of fuel to obtain the same power level as straight gas at any given octane rating to compensate for the differences in fuel. You don't have to look any further than the sufficient number of automobile articles relating to vehicles converted to run E85 only. Larger injectors, changes to compression ratios and many other changes to make them run successfully with one penalty being a loss of mileage over straight or low level alcohol gas. Alcohol also doesn't atomize as well as gasoline so it takes either warmer environment or some additional gas injection etc in order to fire the engines up in the first place.


If nothing else, if anyone has a dual fuel vehicle then try a couple of tanks of E85 some time. I did - mileage went down by over 1/3 and power levels were down in my truck when I did. That was enough for me.


Given a choice for small engines and pre-gasohol vehicles in particular, I'll pay extra to get non-oxygenated (no alcohol) fuel. They run better, longer without the alcohol in the fuel IMO.


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## JamesReady

HCBPH said:


> I know this is old, but alcohol actually raises the octane rating,
> 
> I think I agree with you,... The more I drink, the better the blower runs...!!
> OR, is it that I don't seem to care as much..???
> 
> Not sure yet... maybe someday I'll try blowing snow while NOT impaired..!!
> :snow48:


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