# Your thoughts on the fuel shut off - ST224



## BullFrog

I got a question for you guys that are familiar with the fuel control on these LCT engines. 

Earlier on in the day my neighbour was asking about my new snowblower so I was showing him the starting procedure where you have to open the fuel valve, put the key in, etc. etc. but I didn't start it. What I didn't do when we were done is turn the fuel off. A couple of hours later I went out to show my wife the new machine (she was away and hadn't seen it yet). This time I started it but noticed a few drips of gas right after I had pushed the primer bulb. 

So my question to you guys is does the fuel HAVE to be turned off each time the engine is shut down, or is the valve just there for maintenance purposes, or storage, or some kind of redundant safety feature like the key? I know the manual says to shut it off as it does in my Honda mower manual but I've never shut the fuel off in the 25 years I've owned it and never had a leak. This is the first snow blower I've owned that had a primer bulb so I'm wondering if leaving the gas on and pressing the primer would cause gas to drip from some where. It only dripped a few times right after pressing the bulb and didn't drip while the engine was running. 

I don't want to take it in to the dealer if it was just user error. Thanks for your help.


----------



## mobiledynamics

It's there to run the carb dry.

You're over-priming it, hence the fuel drip


----------



## nwcove

very normal to see a drip or two of fuel after priming, but i would make shutting off the fuel valve after use a to do thing. jmo


----------



## Cardo111

The only time I use the fuel shut off on my LCT engine is when I am traveling with the unit and during off season storage as another member above stated: to close the fuel line then run the carb dry.

With this engine you shouldn't have to press the primer bulb more than 3X when starting a cold engine. If fuel is leaking after just 3X's I would have the dealer look at it. If you are pressing it 5-10X's which is not necessary, fuel leaking out would be expected.


----------



## Shryp

The fuel valve is also a safety device like you stated.

If the float leaks then gas can either leak out of the carb where the primer leak is or run down through the engine and fill the oil sump. Gas running all over the floor is bad for the garage and gas running all down the oil is bad for the engine.


----------



## BullFrog

The bulb was pressed 3x as per the owners manual. So what you guys are saying is the bulb is there to fill the carb bowl if it's empty, but otherwise if the fuel valve is left open there's no need to press the primer bulb because the carb bowl is full already and just use the choke?


----------



## Shryp

BullFrog said:


> The bulb was pressed 3x as per the owners manual. So what you guys are saying is the bulb is there to fill the carb bowl if it's empty, but otherwise if the fuel valve is left open there's no need to press the primer bulb because the carb bowl is full already and just use the choke?


In general the primer bulb pushes air into the carb. The sudden extra air pressure pushes fuel up the main jet. Too much fuel will end up dripping. Ever see the coke/mentos videos online? It works kind of like that.


----------



## Normex

BullFrog said:


> So my question to you guys is does the fuel HAVE to be turned off each time the engine is shut down, or is the valve just there for maintenance purposes, or storage, or some kind of redundant safety feature like the key? I know the manual says to shut it off as it does in my Honda mower manual but I've never shut the fuel off in the 25 years I've owned it and never had a leak. This is the first snow blower I've owned that had a primer bulb so I'm wondering if leaving the gas on and pressing the primer would cause gas to drip from some where. It only dripped a few times right after pressing the bulb and didn't drip while the engine was running.


 First, its foremost task is to relieve the small pressure of gas to the carb float pin during storage so the full gas tank content would not empty itself in oil crankcase and yes also for draining carb but there are two train of thoughts on this which in my opinion mosltly every one in the far past never did the drain the carb thing with nasty results but that is only my opinion.


----------



## Cardo111

BullFrog said:


> The bulb was pressed 3x as per the owners manual. So what you guys are saying is the bulb is there to fill the carb bowl if it's empty, but otherwise if the fuel valve is left open there's no need to press the primer bulb because the carb bowl is full already and just use the choke?


Yes that is correct and each time you start the engine you would repeat the process.


----------



## Normex

Cardo111 said:


> Yes that is correct and each time you start the engine you would repeat the process.


 I tend to disagree with you Cardo for when the engine is as cold as outside temps one would use the primer and not when engine is warm. Please read also Shryp's response.


----------



## Cardo111

Normex said:


> I tend to disagree with you Cardo for when the engine is as cold as outside temps one would use the primer and not when engine is warm. Please read also Shryp's response.


You are correct Normex, as I stated in my initial post: Prime only a cold engine, I should have reinforced this again in my follow-up post.


----------



## BullFrog

Ok, got it. Thanks everyone for your input.


----------



## Normex

I should state that I have sometimes a bad habit of not reading the whole thread and as most evident in this one which Cardo111 had responded rightly and also Shryp that did also. Sorry gang I'll read some more much like think twice before speaking.


----------



## Cardo111

Normex, I appreciate the post though it was not necessary, you are a gentleman.


----------



## skutflut

Cardo111 said:


> You are correct Normex, as I stated in my initial post: Prime only a cold engine, I should have reinforced this again in my follow-up post.


Just to add another variable, my B&S engine recommends using the primer only when cold starting with the recoil system. They say priming (even cold) is not needed when using the electric start. You will still need the choke with the electric start.


----------



## BullFrog

skutflut said:


> Just to add another variable, my B&S engine recommends using the primer only when cold starting with the recoil system. They say priming (even cold) is not needed when using the electric start. You will still need the choke with the electric start.


I was curious so I had to try it out. The engine is not a Briggs but an LCT and it would not start using the choke only and electric start method. However it started right up with just a single press of the primer button.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog

As sharp mentioned, the primer bulb is there to pump air down to the carb to apply air pressure to the fuel sitting in the bowl and that pressure forces fuel to exit up the jets into the carbs throat. Doesn't take much for that raw fuel to start to leak out the carb and drip onto your machine.

It doesn't do anything to help fill the bowl if it's empty. If the float bowl is empty pushing the primer bulb just pushes the air into the carb but doesn't help draw fuel in at all.

When in doubt you can can always choke a cold engine and give it a couple pulls to see if it will start. If not then hit the primer a couple times.
It's always easier to start out using less and choke or prime it more than it is to try and un-flood it !!!


----------



## ELaw

There's a lot of good info here and I'd like to toss in another $0.02 if I can...

The priming doesn't have to be "3 pushes or nothing". IMHO it's best to vary it depending on the engine and outside temperature. 

If the engine's significantly warm, don't prime at all. If the engine is "cool", like has been sitting in a heated garage, and you're starting it in that garage or outdoors in warmer weather (like 40F), press the primer once. If the engine or weather is colder, press it twice. If either or both are *really* cold, press 3 times.


----------



## BullFrog

As far as I'm concerned the fuel and ignition management on these engines is overly complicated. To start any other SB I've owned you simply had to move the throttle lever to fast, pull the choke, pull the rope and you're off and running. Then to shut it down you simply moved the throttle to STOP. Now there's a fuel valve, a key, an ignition switch, a primer bulb, a choke dial, a throttle dial, then pull the rope. All inconveniently moved off the control panel. The KISS way of doing things makes much more sense.


----------



## skutflut

BullFrog said:


> I was curious so I had to try it out. The engine is not a Briggs but an LCT and it would not start using the choke only and electric start method. However it started right up with just a single press of the primer button.


What's your manual say? Does it specify using the primer for a cold engine?


----------



## skutflut

BullFrog said:


> As far as I'm concerned the fuel and ignition management on these engines is overly complicated. To start any other SB I've owned you simply had to move the throttle lever to fast, pull the choke, pull the rope and you're off and running. Then to shut it down you simply moved the throttle to STOP. Now there's a fuel valve, a key, an ignition switch, a primer bulb, a choke dial, a throttle dial, then pull the rope. All inconveniently moved off the control panel. The KISS way of doing things makes much more sense.


You got that right. My B&S engine choke, primer, and key are up front and easy to find, but I also have an ON/OFF switch, and now a throttle and fuel shutoff that are located just above the recoil mechanism. You cannot really see these three items unless you bend over and look thru the handle bar assembly. If you didn't know they were there, you might spend quite a bit of time wondering why the darn thing would not start, especially the on/off switch, which is basically the same function as the key interlock. To add complication, the lettering on the on/off switch is microscopic. I think it is also labeled backward, where the off position is actually closed contact, to short out the ignition, and the ON position is open contacts. That could complicate life down the road if you bought a generic switch and wondered why it doesn't seem to work.

Seem to remember from my younger days when you had to wind a rope around the flywheel and give it a yank, then the rope came off and you put it someplace else, and frequently lost it.


----------



## BullFrog

skutflut said:


> Seem to remember from my younger days when you had to wind a rope around the flywheel and give it a yank, then the rope came off and you put it someplace else, and frequently lost it.


Ah yes, when I was a kid dad had such a mower. No throttle, single speed. Flipping the grounding tab against the spark plug terminal shut it down. No blade brake needed either. A stern verbal instruction to never put your hand under it or it'll get cut off was all the safety warning you needed and something you never forgot.


----------



## Snow

ELaw said:


> There's a lot of good info here and I'd like to toss in another $0.02 if I can...
> 
> The priming doesn't have to be "3 pushes or nothing". IMHO it's best to vary it depending on the engine and outside temperature.
> 
> If the engine's significantly warm, don't prime at all. If the engine is "cool", like has been sitting in a heated garage, and you're starting it in that garage or outdoors in warmer weather (like 40F), press the primer once. If the engine or weather is colder, press it twice. If either or both are *really* cold, press 3 times.


Great thread and great info for a subject I took for granted. I used to just pump like a devil and then pull and pull and ...... take a break to let the thing unflood and then pull and play with choke, throttle and ... take a break and then shake my head and go in the house to find the shut off key I forgot to put in ....:icon_whistling:

Now I got a system thanks to all.


----------



## skutflut

BullFrog said:


> Ah yes, when I was a kid dad had such a mower. No throttle, single speed. Flipping the grounding tab against the spark plug terminal shut it down. No blade brake needed either. A stern verbal instruction to never put your hand under it or it'll get cut off was all the safety warning you needed and something you never forgot.


Now that warning is printed on a sticker (in microscopic lettering) is at least 3 languages. Seem to remember one that had a graphic of severed fingers.


----------



## mobiledynamics

Bullfrog -

Ignore some of those ~extras~ and it becomes second nature. 
I generally don't leave the key in the snowblower anyhow - just hang it seperate on a key hook. The ~on switch~ for me, is always left on on. I see no reason to engage or use that....

So key in, always leave the thing in WTO (wide throttle open), choke.
Prime it, pull it, move choke halfway and then as she warms up, take it off.
Go to work


----------



## ELaw

I agree!

Compared to the ~2 hours it takes to do my driveway, walk, and various parts of the yard (so our micro-dogs can do what they need to do), the 5 seconds it takes to operate a few switches/buttons/levers is insignificant. Heck, just putting gas in the machine takes way longer than that.


----------

