# 4 stroke Single stages (vs the older 2 Strokes?)



## Spring1898 (Jan 1, 2013)

Just interested what peoples thoughts are on them that have had both new and old single stages, and how the new ones compare vs 2 stages.


Thinking that my thought process on single stages needs to change.
To me single stages are what you got out with a light snow 6" or less and wanted to get done quick and fly around the driveway. in this case the machine was lighter and faster than the 2 stage.

But now with putting a "big" 4 stroke into them, it seems they put on a lot of weight and gained torque. 
I think my old CCR's maxed out around 30kg. The new 252cc one I think is just shy of 45kg. Though that is still lighter and more maneuverable than a 2 stage by far.

Small compact 2 stages used to come in around the 22" and 5hp realm. Aside from really deep snows that are over the top of the single stage, is there really any purpose to the compact 2 stage anymore?


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

The 4 strokes run cleaner without the oil mess from the 2 stroke exhaust and are generally more longer lasting and reliable as long as normal maintenance is followed, like on anything.
The 4 strokes usually get better fuel mileage so they will run longer on the same amount of fuel, say a quart of fuel. The 2 stroke would use a quart up a lot quicker than the 4 stroke would, and spark plug fouling is less likely on the 4 stroke.
Although the 2 stroke is usually a lighter weight machine to move around, the 4 stroke motor normally lasts longer before it requires repair or replacement.


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## Spring1898 (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks for the info. I am very interested in the upped capability they are supposed to have, and whether they render the old compact 2 stage somewhat obsolete. 

On another subforum I discussed hunting down a compact 2 stage for a senior citizen but if these newer single stages will do the same thing and be lighter it gives me more to think about.
Now I could probably build the 2 stage better, with larger engine, impeller kit to keep it relevant for that heavier snow that might be higher than 12" but we don't seem to get that much anymore. Like I said gives me more to think about. It also pulls itself...


2 stroke smoke doesn't bother me, I run enough chainsaws, trimmers, etc to make the platform worth while. I can certainly see the better fuel economy, but I wonder if it is significant enough to make a difference. 
As far as longevity I would be interested to see that. I have 80's era 2 strokes that still get used every year. The only maintenance they have had (specific to the engine) was the spark plug changed and a carb cleaning when I bought them. 
I think that was kind of the point of the 2 stroke was their simplicity, if you don't mind mixing gas and a bit of smoke.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

The newer single stages serve a purpose, 2 stages serve a different purpose, there is a overlap, but neither will replace the other. Manufacturers have upgraded the newer single stage becoming like the 2 stage machines, wanting to give you the impression they'll do everything, the job of a 2 stage. They won't! I'd like to think now, depending on the depth and the type of snow, you need 3 machines for maximum efficiency, old paddle single stage, newer paddle single stage, and a 2 stage. Lol. Whoopee, Let's go, Have fun, Give me MORE!


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

deleted, my post was redundant


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## dman2 (Sep 22, 2019)

The two cycle engine oil that they used today is ash less. It won't plug up the exhaust port, and won't allow carbon build up. It coats everything nicely in oil. If there is any carbon build up, the carbon is very soft. You can just wipe the carbon off with a rag, like wiping grease off.

I never had spark plug problems in my 2 cycle equipment before.

Which one lubricate better? Probably 4 cycle, but only the bottom parts. Two cycle on the other hand is a very simple design. It has no valves to be adjusted and broken.

Which one will last longer? Hard to tell. I have read people claiming that both will last just as long.

One thing I know for sure is that two cycle can rev higher, produce more power overall and lightweight. It is very low maintenance. Only the oil/fuel mixing part is boring.

They like 4 cycle for the environment and to avoid oil/fuel mixing, but I'm not all for it.


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## Spring1898 (Jan 1, 2013)

JLawrence08648 said:


> The newer single stages serve a purpose, 2 stages serve a different purpose, there is a overlap, but neither will replace the other. Manufacturers have upgraded the newer single stage becoming like the 2 stage machines, wanting to give you the impression they'll do everything, the job of a 2 stage. They won't! I'd like to think now, depending on the depth and the type of snow, you need 3 machines for maximum efficiency, old paddle single stage, newer paddle single stage, and a 2 stage. Lol. Whoopee, Let's go, Have fun, Give me MORE!


I think that is the conclusion I am coming to. Although the new single stage will replace the old single stage simply because of availability. But barring non-paved drives, and snows that seriously exceed the opening height of the New Single Stages, or you need the added propulsion of the 2 stage or increased throw distance, it is hard to justify the small 2 stage anymore. 

Looking at the line ups of the companies that make the Newer single stages, I think that is obvious. You don't see a 22" 5hp model anymore. The smallest is the 212cc range 24" blower

The biggest downside to the New single stage (or any for that matter) is that while you can increase the engine size, the RPM stays the same, which limits the max throwing distance, even if the load gets larger. I think that is one inherent advantage of the 2 stage regardless. But that is kind of irrelevant if you have a 2 lane drive or smaller where you can always reach the other side.

I will miss the lightweight of the older single stage. Being able to pick it up easily with one person is definitely helpful.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

I think the light weight and very low maintenance of the 2 stroke single stage appeals to people like myself who already have other 2 stroke machines (I have 3 Echo machines and a Husky chain saw) and are used to mixing up batches of 2 stroke fuel. I do use TCW-III only in the Toro as per their recommendation, have not had any problems with deposits building up in the muffler or ports. In the other 4 machines I use the Echo semi syn 2 stroke for air cooled engines. 
I wondered if the largest 4 stroke Toro single stage (252 cc) can really chew through frozen over snow like we got this past storm. That's what's difficult for my 2 stroke single stage. Powdery snow it does fine in.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

The oil for a 2 stroke has come a long way since back in the '60's and '70's. It does work much cleaner and lubricates much better.
Some of those old 2 stroke engines were built to last a long time.
Now days with all the pollution requirements, the EPA doesn't want the un-burned oil spraying out into the air as an "Un-burned Hydrocarbon" emission.
The biggest problems with the 2 strokes were the high frequency vibrations they produced leading to cracking of various components and probably the biggest problem was the owner not mixing the oil/gas ratio properly, or not mixing it at all and running straight gasoline, leading to major engine damage and failures.
But those little lightweight engines produced a lot of power for their size and weight.


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

ST1100A said:


> The 4 strokes run cleaner without the oil mess from the 2 stroke exhaust and are generally more longer lasting and reliable as long as normal maintenance is followed, like on anything.
> The 4 strokes usually get better fuel mileage so they will run longer on the same amount of fuel, say a quart of fuel. The 2 stroke would use a quart up a lot quicker than the 4 stroke would, and spark plug fouling is less likely on the 4 stroke.
> Although the 2 stroke is usually a lighter weight machine to move around, the 4 stroke motor normally lasts longer before it requires repair or replacement.


Have to disagree about reliability of 2 stroke vs 4 stroke. My 2 stroke Suzuki powered Toro lawn mower ( purchased in 1989 ) still running strong . My 2 stroke ( R-Tek ) 2 stage Toro 726 TE ( purchased Dec 2003 ) is still unstoppable . I have always used premium oil , non ethanol gas ( when available ) at about a 40 to 1 ratio . Well designed 2 stroke , IMO , will at least last as long as 4 strokes , all things being equal.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

jkp said:


> Have to disagree about reliability of 2 stroke vs 4 stroke. My 2 stroke Suzuki powered Toro lawn mower ( purchased in 1989 ) still running strong . My 2 stroke ( R-Tek ) 2 stage Toro 726 TE ( purchased Dec 2003 ) is still unstoppable . I have always used premium oil , non ethanol gas ( when available ) at about a 40 to 1 ratio . Well designed 2 stroke , IMO , will at least last as long as 4 strokes , all things being equal.


Actually a 1989 model is considered a "Newer" model when you think back in the early '70's BEFORE they started using the "Nikasil" < Nickel Silacon> plating, or what some people call "Chrome" plating on the cylinder walls and the newer style/material piston rings along with the "Teflon" coated pistons that make them last longer, and as long as the owner uses a good quality oil, of which the new 2 stroke oil is much better now than the old stuff, and as long as they mix it properly, and put oil in the mixture in the first place, which many people forget to do.
Chrome plating has a Nickel plating as its base, and there is also Nickel in the actual Chrome to help keep it from flaking off, otherwise it wouldn't stick to the cylinder walls so it helps to bond the chrome to the walls.
The 2 strokes normally wear around the piston port areas from less contact area for the piston and rings, plus every down stroke is a power stroke causing more piston "Rocking", they will actually wear faster than a 4 stroke, especially when used commercially.
Granted Suzuki made good engines back in their day, a lot of them were actually made by Suburu for Suzuki, which made good engines before they stopped making small engines a few years ago.
We always maintain our little 2 stroke motors with all premium products, and run them hard, but the normal life expectancy is only half or less of what our 4 stroke engines get out of them, and that also goes for the "Micro" engines we use.
Using Premium vs. Regular and Ethanol vs. Non Ethanol have no bearing on how long an engine will last, it does not make any difference as long as the engine is properly maintained.


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## Spring1898 (Jan 1, 2013)

ST1100A said:


> We always maintain our little 2 stroke motors with all premium products, and run them hard, but the normal life expectancy is only half or less of what our 4 stroke engines get out of them, and that also goes for the "Micro" engines we use.
> Using Premium vs. Regular and Ethanol vs. Non Ethanol have no bearing on how long an engine will last, it does not make any difference as long as the engine is properly maintained.


I think we on these forums are prone to survival bias because we maintain everything so highly, that is the nature of the group. For most of us we won't be putting our machines under the duty cycle that a commercial user will put them under for the same hours. 

But I have to agree that the average full size 4 stroke will on average last longer than the average 2 stroke under the same duty cycle. 

The unfortunate thing about snowblowers is that you can't just rebuild the engines as easily as other 2 stroke applications due to new parts lack of availability.


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## Dja123 (Feb 11, 2021)

ST1100A said:


> The oil for a 2 stroke has come a long way since back in the '60's and '70's. It does work much cleaner and lubricates much better.
> Some of those old 2 stroke engines were built to last a long time.
> Now days with all the pollution requirements, the EPA doesn't want the un-burned oil spraying out into the air as an "Un-burned Hydrocarbon" emission.
> The biggest problems with the 2 strokes were the high frequency vibrations they produced leading to cracking of various components and probably the biggest problem was the owner not mixing the oil/gas ratio properly, or not mixing it at all and running straight gasoline, leading to major engine damage and failures.
> But those little lightweight engines produced a lot of power for their size and weight.


Completely agree. My mid-90s MTD w/4.5hp Tecumseh Snow King 2-cycle is everything that was good about 2-cycle snowblowers. It's an absolute beast at its job. This machine easily throws snow twice as far as my neighbors brand new 4-cycle -- both single stage. It is louder and pollutes more and that's why they're gone now. Mixing oil was only a problem in ads for 4-cycle brands. Anyone bothered by, or incapable of mixing oil/gas should be hiring someone. Also true about the vibration in 2-cycles; I've basically had to replace about half of all fasteners over the years. When I find random nuts and washers in the driveway, I go check the snowblower. 

I hope this little beastie never dies.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

I think some of the 2 strokes when run with good fuel good fuel mix and good 2 stroke oil can last as long as 4 strokes. I’ve had them many years and have not worn one out yet. You rarely hear of bottom end wear on 2 strokes because the cranks use ball bearings and the rod bearings use roller bearings. The 50:1 mix keeps everything coated in oil. To avoid piston wear which is usually what affects them make sure to use a good quality 2 stroke oil and make sure the fuel mix is not going lean (check spark plug center insulator color)....I have 3 Echo machines, a Husky chain saw and the Zuzuki Toro, that’s 5 two strokes....


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

And mixing oil is a non issue. Get a one gallon can and put exactly one gallon of gas in it. Then put a sharpie mark on the outside of the can. You can use the pre measured bottles or do as I do and use a mixing bottle to measure out the correct amount of oil for the amount of gas you have. I buy 2 stroke oil in gallon jugs and mix my own the gallon lasts for years and it’s cheaper that way.
This is no more difficult than changing oil on a 4 stroke in fact I think it’s easier!
No worry about stripped drain plugs, oil drain tubes coming out, poorly designed oil drains that make a big mess every time you change it (I’ve had this on a few 4 stroke machines) etc. No different than mixing in stabilizer!


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

LouC said:


> And mixing oil is a non issue. Get a one gallon can and put exactly one gallon of gas in it. Then put a sharpie mark on the outside of the can. You can use the pre measured bottles or do as I do and use a mixing bottle to measure out the correct amount of oil for the amount of gas you have. I buy 2 stroke oil in gallon jugs and mix my own the gallon lasts for years and it’s cheaper that way.
> *This is no more difficult than changing oil on a 4 stroke in fact I think it’s easier!*
> No worry about stripped drain plugs, oil drain tubes coming out, poorly designed oil drains that make a big mess every time you change it (I’ve had this on a few 4 stroke machines) etc. No different than mixing in stabilizer!


I'd like to convert all of my 4 stroke equipment to 2 stroke. String trimmers, lawn mowers, snowblowers, leaf blowers. That's at least 4 pieces of equipment.

*One* mixed gas can. 

*Zero* oil changes. 

*Zero* mess. 

*Zero* used oil to recycle. 

What does One, Zero, Zero, Zero spell in Binary? *WIN*


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## Dja123 (Feb 11, 2021)

LouC said:


> And mixing oil is a non issue. Get a one gallon can and put exactly one gallon of gas in it. Then put a sharpie mark on the outside of the can. You can use the pre measured bottles or do as I do and use a mixing bottle to measure out the correct amount of oil for the amount of gas you have..


Ah yes, the sharpie line trick. I even have a 1/2 gallon mark for mixing half-gallon batches near the end of season. Agree, this isn't a big deal.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

My 2 stroke machines are 4 chain saws, string trimmer, leaf blower and a Toro Power Shovel and don't usually go through a lot of mixed fuel

I also use the Sharpie line trick, marking 2, 3, 4 and 5 litres on my smaller 2 stroke gas can, which I fill with straight non ethanol gas from my 5 gallon (23 litres) can. Depending on time of season, I can choose how big a batch I want to mix.

I find these mixing syringes work well and are pretty much fool proof. 

I also always add a little more oil in the syringe (maybe 47 or 48:1 instead of 50:1) when mixing my 2 stroke gas.


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

And I am yet to be convinced that the better 2 stroke motors , with correct fuel and mixture, don`t last just as long , ( or longer ) than the 4 cycle motors . When in 1989 I went shopping for a mower, I was asked how long it took to mow my lawn . 60- 75 minutes . I was told, the average 4 cycle air cooled mower engine, has little oil cooling, therefore the longer it runs, the hotter the oil gets. It was also claimed that after about 45 minutes run time, the oil starts going past ideal temperature . Until 2012 that mower did the full lawn, after that I started using a tractor ( my body wore out before the Suzuki motor ) , so now it just does trim. Perhaps I was just being BS`d into a more expensive mower , but it has sure lasted .


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Ziggy65 said:


> My 2 stroke machines are 4 chain saws, string trimmer, leaf blower and a Toro Power Shovel and don't usually go through a lot of mixed fuel
> 
> I also use the Sharpie line trick, marking 2, 3, 4 and 5 litres on my smaller 2 stroke gas can, which I fill with straight non ethanol gas from my 5 gallon (23 litres) can. Depending on time of season, I can choose how big a batch I want to mix.
> 
> ...


I have this but actually find my West Marine mixing bottle easier to use...


WEST MARINE Oil-to-Gas Mixture Measuring Bottle | West Marine 

you look up the gallons and Ratio and just add the oil to the line....


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

LouC said:


> I have this but actually find my West Marine mixing bottle easier to use...
> 
> 
> WEST MARINE Oil-to-Gas Mixture Measuring Bottle | West Marine
> ...


I can see that the mixing bottle would be an improvement over the syringe. Have to pick one up some day.
Thanks


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

I use a ratio rite. It easily measures oil for different gas amount. I used it on my husqvarna wr430 and still use it. It let's you by bigger quality oil


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## Dja123 (Feb 11, 2021)

The most I mix at a time is usually 1 US gallon. I just use a small graduated measuring cup to get 2.6 oz in a gallon can. Any way that gets the ratio right is fine.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I feel that single stage machines keep getting heavier. And 4 stroke engines have not helped. 

2 stroke engines are smaller, and lighter usually making equal power to 4 strokes with close to half the displacement. 

On the other end, they are louder, consume a lot of fuel, and smoke unless using premium 2cycle oil. 

I love my little toro powerlite but the thing is deafening. I’ll deal with it considering it’s so light and powerful.


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## Jatoxico (Jan 6, 2018)

drmerdp said:


> I feel that single stage machines keep getting heavier. And 4 stroke engines have not helped.
> 
> 2 stroke engines are smaller, and lighter usually making equal power to 4 strokes with close to half the displacement.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I have a TORO 2450 and the best thing about is its power/weight ratio. You can toss it around, go up steps, throw onto a deck you name it. Yeah is noisy but the Tecumseh on my 2 stage isn't exactly quiet.

I'm very interested in the 824 QXE. The 2450 not being self propelled is a downside. It was my first blower and a huge improvement over shoveling but my current house is hillier.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

drmerdp said:


> I feel that single stage machines keep getting heavier. And 4 stroke engines have not helped.
> 
> 2 stroke engines are smaller, and lighter usually making equal power to 4 strokes with close to half the displacement.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. 4 stroke single stage are getting very porky. Toro has 250cc and while I'm tempted with the extra power, I don't really need it. I like the maneuverabily of a lighter 2 stroke 20 inch single stage over power. When the snow is too heavy and deep, I just run the larger 2 stage Honda.

I always wear ear protection when I run any power equipment. The Powerlite is loud, but it is so fun to whip and turn. The engine sound is quite satisfying when the governor kicks in. I can pick it up and carry up steps and stoops. It works like an oversized power shovel.


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## Yetiman (Jan 12, 2021)

Somehow I posted this to a different thread earlier today, but meant to post it here. Sorry if it sounds familiar.

My experience here with my gear... 

I am in Milwaukee Wisconsin, and we get a pretty good amount of snow most years. Wikipedia says Milwaukee County gets 54" average, but that sounds low for most years. In the city of Milwaukee proper we often get extra 'lake effect' snow within 5 miles of Lake Michigan.

I have a Toro 38583 (221 QR ?)I bought new in 2008. It has a 141cc 2 stroke R Tec which I believe is 7hp, and was one of the first "quick chute" models. When I bought it I already had a Bolens two stage that was made by Airens. After the first season I sold the Bolens, as the Toro did 90% of what it did, and was far less of workout to use.

Fast forward to 2021. I have multiple properties in Milwaukee. I still have my 2 stroke Toro which I put new paddles and a scraper bar on over the summer, and I picked up a new Toro 821 QZE 4 stroke last month (January 2021). I also have a Snapper 724 two stage that my girlfriend bought new in 1997.

She and I have run the two stroke Toro and the 821 back to back in everything from 2" of light snow to 11 inches of relatively heavy wet snow. We both feel that for anything but the 11 inch heavy snow they were very equal.
BUT, in the deep heavy snow the four stroke 821 had noticeably more power and could be run faster through the heaviest sections where the two stroke was bogging a bit.

In particular, a section of sidewalk that had 13" of snow from a drift (slightly higher than the top of the Toro), the two stroke would bog and have to take bites at it where the 821 could go through at a steady pace. It then took a fast clean up lap after for the snow that went over it and fell behind.

Between houses where the snow had drifted to 15 inches, the Snapper two stage did a better job than either Toro, because of the taller bucket (The Snapper has a 15" tall bucket). It also does better at the big chunks at the end of the driveway. Either Toro does well with the plow pile, but the Snapper does better, and does it faster as it should.
I still feel the two stroke does 90% of what our Snapper two stage does, and the Toro 821 does 95%. They also have certain advantages over the two stage for sure.

Granted, the Snapper 724 is a small/mid size two stage, not a monster by any means.

I never had a problem mixing gas. My two stroke starts on the first or second pull every time. The four stroke is actually a bit harder to start manually but fires right up with the electric starter.

The two stroke is 84 lbs where the 821 QZE is 96 lbs. Not really that big a difference.
I LOVE the 3 quart fuel tank on the 821 QZE. It can run a LONG time between refills.

The Toro 821 is quite impressive. I have video from security cameras of me clearing 11" snow on the driveway that I showed to a guy at work, and he said he wouldn't have believed me if he hadn't seen the video, how fast I was going, how far it was throwing, and that I was taking very close to full width cuts, not half or 3/4 cuts. He was looking to replace an old Toro that had the handle broken and repaired a couple times. He bought an 821 last week.

* I tried to upload a 10 second video, but it says it is too big for the server.


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## Slinger (Oct 9, 2014)

Yeah...I'm thinking about selling my 824QXE Snowmaster and going with an 821QZE. I think I'll be happier with the paddles making contact with the pavement for better, more thorough clearing clear down to the surface.


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

drmerdp said:


> I feel that single stage machines keep getting heavier. And 4 stroke engines have not helped.
> 
> 2 stroke engines are smaller, and lighter usually making equal power to 4 strokes with close to half the displacement.
> 
> ...


Mixing oil with gas is not a hard thing to do , adds maybe a minute or so to the process . Usually mix a gallon at a time - non ethanol. I use Amsoil Sabre- even on start up,( usually one pull ) almost no smoke. I like the sound of R-Teks, especially when under load, they have a growl . Not looking forward to replacing with 4 cycle . Definitely a 2 stroke fan .


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

I love 2 strokes the sound power smell. Got rid of my old ccr2000 Suzuki as it was getting ugly it led a commercial life before my 8 years use. Found another s Suzuki ccr2000E
A garage queen. Even has toro cover. Never have to use electric 2 primes and starts 1st pull without choke. I use it mainly for drive and walks. It use the my 8hp ariens twin stick for yard paths around house for mailman and for back yard maze for Charley to exercise and get to his








dog run











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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

groomerz said:


> I love 2 strokes the sound power smell. Got rid of my old ccr2000 Suzuki as it was getting ugly it led a commercial life before my 8 years use. Found another s Suzuki ccr2000E
> A garage queen. Even has toro cover. Never have to use electric 2 primes and starts 1st pull without choke. I use it mainly for drive and walks. It use the my 8hp ariens twin stick for yard paths around house for mailman and for back yard maze for Charley to exercise and get to his
> 
> 
> ...


I have the best of both worlds ( IMO ) a 2 cycle 2 stage and a 2 cycle 1 stage


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Is it a toro 2 stage. Rare machine. Do you have a pic. 
What is horsepower


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## Patrick0525 (Dec 24, 2020)

Ziggy65 said:


> My 2 stroke machines are 4 chain saws, string trimmer, leaf blower and a Toro Power Shovel and don't usually go through a lot of mixed fuel
> 
> I also use the Sharpie line trick, marking 2, 3, 4 and 5 litres on my smaller 2 stroke gas can, which I fill with straight non ethanol gas from my 5 gallon (23 litres) can. Depending on time of season, I can choose how big a batch I want to mix.
> 
> ...


For a volume 50:1 ratio, I use a kitchen scale and tare an old 2cycle oil bottle using the conversion of 2.56fluid oz = 75.71ml. The 2cycle oil has a density = 0.867g/ml (Castrol Power RS TTS [email protected] 20C) . therefore it is 65.6grams. Reference:Castrol SDS#465859


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

jkp said:


> I have the best of both worlds ( IMO ) a 2 cycle 2 stage and a 2 cycle 1 stage


What model is your 2 cycle 2 stage. I want one!


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Wasn’t that the 726 TE or something like that, with a 7 hp Rtek 2 stroke?


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Yes post some pics of that 2 cycle 2 stage. I would love to see it!


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> Yes post some pics of that 2 cycle 2 stage. I would love to see it!


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

Not at all attractive, maybe too much plastic around the engine, but it works


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)




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## Patrick0525 (Dec 24, 2020)

jkp said:


> View attachment 176217
> View attachment 176218





jkp said:


> View attachment 176217
> View attachment 176218


Mideval


jkp said:


> View attachment 176217
> View attachment 176218


A real 🦄. According to medieval legend there is only person who can tame it?


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

I bet it is pretty light and drinks the gas pretty fast. Nice machine. It looks in pretty good condition. What model year is it?


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Cool machine. Unlike most rare blowers parts are slim availability The engine is rtek so parts should be no problem and blower looks like a power max so parts should be available. But an rtek in a power max is rare and very cool. 


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> I bet it is pretty light and drinks the gas pretty fast. Nice machine. It looks in pretty good condition. What model year is it?


The Powermax 726TE is listed at 210 lbs. I don`t think the choice of the R-Tek for this model was weight . Fuel usage : Three years ago , I mixed up 2 gallons, did not use it up in 2 years, so got rid of it. Now I mix a gallon at a time .Holds about 1 and 1/4 quarts ( as I recall ) , and lasts 45 minutes (or longer ) . I think it is more myth than fact about how thirty 2 strokes are- ( in race applications, maybe so ) my 2 cycle Suzuki engined Toro mower never struck me as thirsty . As with the car I drive, fuel economy is not my primary deciding factor in what motivates my power equipment .


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

jkp said:


> The Powermax 726TE is listed at 210 lbs. I don`t think the choice of the R-Tek for this model was weight . Fuel usage : Three years ago , I mixed up 2 gallons, did not use it up in 2 years, so got rid of it. Now I mix a gallon at a time .Holds about 1 and 1/4 quarts ( as I recall ) , and lasts 45 minutes (or longer ) . I think it is more myth than fact about how thirty 2 strokes are- ( in race applications, maybe so ) my 2 cycle Suzuki engined Toro mower never struck me as thirsty . As with the car I drive, fuel economy is not my primary deciding factor in what motivates my power equipment .


Thanks. It is nice machine. I am not suggesting the fuel economy is a big issue. Most people will go though under 10 gallons a year and that is not a big factor. It is a common fact that with a power stroke ever revolution you will consume more gas than a 4 cycle engine with a power stroke every 2 revolutions. I would have thought they would provide a larger gas tank as most machines are designed to run an hour or more on a tank of fuel. 

I know they are high rmp engines. At what RPM do they run at. If anyone knows? Just curious.


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## Patrick0525 (Dec 24, 2020)

Patrick0525 said:


> person





jkp said:


> The Powermax 726TE is listed at 210 lbs. I don`t think the choice of the R-Tek for this model was weight . Fuel usage : Three years ago , I mixed up 2 gallons, did not use it up in 2 years, so got rid of it. Now I mix a gallon at a time .Holds about 1 and 1/4 quarts ( as I recall ) , and lasts 45 minutes (or longer ) . I think it is more myth than fact about how thirty 2 strokes are- ( in race applications, maybe so ) my 2 cycle Suzuki engined Toro mower never struck me as thirsty . As with the car I drive, fuel economy is not my primary deciding factor in what motivates my power equipment .


My Lawnboy Insight 1000 aka CCR3650 fuel capacity is also 1qt and runs for approx 45minutes. 1gal mix per winter season sounds about right for the SE Pa region.


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## Patrick0525 (Dec 24, 2020)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> Thanks. It is nice machine. I am not suggesting the fuel economy is a big issue. Most people will go though under 10 gallons a year and that is not a big factor. It is a common fact that with a power stroke ever revolution you will consume more gas than a 4 cycle engine with a power stroke every 2 revolutions. I would have thought they would provide a larger gas tank as most machines are designed to run an hour or more on a tank of fuel.
> 
> I know they are high rmp engines. At what RPM do they run at. If anyone knows? Just curious.





Toro-8-2-4 said:


> Thanks. It is nice machine. I am not suggesting the fuel economy is a big issue. Most people will go though under 10 gallons a year and that is not a big factor. It is a common fact that with a power stroke ever revolution you will consume more gas than a 4 cycle engine with a power stroke every 2 revolutions. I would have thought they would provide a larger gas tank as most machines are designed to run an hour or more on a tank of fuel.
> 
> I know they are high rmp engines. At what RPM do they run at. If anyone knows? Just curious.


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## jkp (Dec 15, 2019)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> Thanks. It is nice machine. I am not suggesting the fuel economy is a big issue. Most people will go though under 10 gallons a year and that is not a big factor. It is a common fact that with a power stroke ever revolution you will consume more gas than a 4 cycle engine with a power stroke every 2 revolutions. I would have thought they would provide a larger gas tank as most machines are designed to run an hour or more on a tank of fuel.
> 
> I know they are high rmp engines. At what RPM do they run at. If anyone knows? Just curious.


As I recall, the 7 HP version R-Tek in the 2 stage runs at 4000 RPM , which to me always sounded like it was over revving, but after 17 seasons , still running strong , so designed for it. The 5 HP in the single stage is 3700 or 3800 RPM , sounds happier ( whatever that means, engine wise ) .


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