# 1961 10ML55 Impeller seal replacement



## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

For the past few days, I've managed to tear apart my gearbox in an attempt to replace my auger and impeller seals, which were leaking like a sieve after I filled it with 70w-90 gear oil. Thank you Ray and Shryp for all your assistance on this. One of the questions I had was how do I get to the impeller seal? For the newer models, such as Shryp's 77, the rear section of the gearbox housing twists off to reveal the impeller bearings and seal. For the 10ML, is was not the case. The exposed circular cap around the impeller shaft is the seal itself! What made it confusing is the seal is painted orange, making me think it is part of the gearbox housing. It is just a pressed in seal, not a screwed in plug like the newer gearboxes. To remove it, I drilled sheet-metal screw into it and pried it out. What is exposed are the bearings, which is held in by a circlip retainer clip.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

My next question is how can I tell if my impeller bearings are still good? There is slight play, but it seems smooth. Here is a video where I tried to capture the bearing play.


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

It rare that you are going to have bad bearings, if everything is smooth and fairly tight I wouldn't tear them apart. If your gearbox goes bad I think it's going to be the gears that would go long before the bearings. The play on the impeller shaft in you video is likely because you have the auger shaft out. Once that is back in, that play prob will tighten up. If you are looking for the seals, they are on eBay, I think you can get them for about $3-4 each.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Hmm, that does seem fairly loose compared to mine, but mine had the plug that screws into the back to tighten them down. I don't think yours has any adjustment for it.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Ray, that's what I'm thinking too. The ring gear is out. Also, once the unit is reinstalled into the bucket, the opposite end of the impeller shaft would be supported by another bearing. That should eliminate any wobble in the shaft that could deform the new seal to be installed. 

I'm pretty amazed at the the condition of all the internals, especially giving the age of the machine. That rear seal must had been the original since it is painted orange.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Also, make sure you put some oil on the new seals before you put the shaft through and be sure to file down any burrs on any of the shafts. You don't want to damage your new seals.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

I did managed to remove the impeller. I soaked the 2 roll pins overnight with WD-40. I then used a proper sized drill bit as a punch. With the roll pins removed, a few strikes with a rubber mallet was all it took to free up the fan from the shaft. I think my leaky rear seal helped me out.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

I have removed my old seals and was test fitting them over the shaft. What I noticed was about 1" from the end of the shaft, the tapered edge (where it steps up from threaded to smooth) is pretty sharp. How would I protect the new seals during installation? Should I file down the sharp edge?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

WestminsterFJR said:


> I have removed my old seals and was test fitting them over the shaft. What I noticed was about 1" from the end of the shaft, the tapered edge (where it steps up from threaded to smooth) is pretty sharp. How would I protect the new seals during installation? Should I file down the sharp edge?


File down any sharp spots with a file or angle grinder and then make sure you put some grease or oil on there before assembly. Does it look like it was made sharp or did that happen after years of wear?


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Shryp, correct. Mine does not have any adjustments. Just a retainer clip is holding it in there. Prior to the tear down, with the unit still in the bucket, I did yank on the impeller shaft to check for play, and there was none to speak of.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Shryp said:


> File down any sharp spots with a file or angle grinder and then make sure you put some grease or oil on there before assembly. Does it look like it was made sharp or did that happen after years of wear?


It was made sharp and identical on both ends.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

I ordered all the parts today. The auger shaft seems a bit worn where the brass bushings/seals sit. Would this cause any leakage concerns.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

If it leaks at all, it won't be like it was. It is normal for shaft to shine up where it bears on the brass bushings. MH


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks for the input, MH. After playing around with the impeller bearings some more, I decided to go ahead and change them since they were a bit crunchy. 

I was able to remove the snap ring and pound the shaft/bearing/outer race out of the housing. I then removed the roll pin from the bearing spacer. I'm at a point now were I cannot remove the bearing from the shaft. I have destroyed the bearing that is at the end with the gears, but the inner portion is still frozen onto the shaft. Any suggestions on how to remove the bearings?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Mine were a press fit, but they were not too tight. I believe I just set the impeller shaft down on a block of wood and smacked the bearings a few times with a hammer.

With your impeller off you can probably get a piece of pipe on there or something.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Yeah...I'm thinking a piece of black iron pipe 3 or 4 inches longer than the shaft, snugged up against the inner bearing. Heat the bearings and spacer with a propane torch a bit and then tap on them with the pipe and a hand sledge. MH


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

The use of a pipe over the shaft is a great idea. Looks like I need to do some shopping. Any recommendations for a torch?

Thinking ahead, I will probably need another pipe to drive the new bearing cups into the housing since the impeller shaft will be in the way. How would I install the inner bearing cup (the one near the ring gear)?


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

I think you could use a ratchet socket for the inner bearing install. Smooth up your shaft with emery cloth and light coat of oil before installation. A small propane torch can be had for about 15 bucks at a big box...uses same bottle of gas as a small burger grill. They are good to have around for plumbing stuff, too. They work a lot better with a little wind break. Watch out...they get hot. MH


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Yea, I used a large socket and hammer to tap my inner bearing race in. Mine were not a tight fit. I used something similar for the bearings. Remember to tap on the edges of the races and the inside edge of the bearings.

Again, mine were not on too tight so it didn't take much to seat them.

I didn't use a torch, but that might help. You can torch the "outside" pieces in an attempt to expand them slightly and before you start you can put the "inside" pieces in a freezer for a while to shrink them a bit.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Thanks for the excellent tips, guys. When installing the inner race, how were you able to reach it since it is inserted from within the housing? Or did you feed it through the impeller opening?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

My races both went in from the impeller side and not the gear side. There was a collar down inside so that was the only way to do it. For removal I did use a C-clamp and a socket from the gear side though, so if that is how yours goes together that should work. I used a socket and hammer from the impeller side for the first one and then just used the screw in plug for the second.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

I was able to remove the 2 bearings and spacer with the help of a 3/4" black iron pipe, 4# sledgehammer, propane torch, and cut-off tool. 



I started by heating the bearings, then used the iron pipe over the shaft +hammer. After about 30 whacks, the bearing moved over the worm-gear, where it became really stuck. Using a digital caliper, I confirmed that the gear was slightly larger in diameter than the shaft. 

So instead of forcing it any further with brute force, I scored the bearings with a cut-off wheel, taking great care not to go all the way through to avoid nicking the shaft. I then returned to the pipe+hammer method. Fortunately, the score mark on the bearing was enough to allow it to open up and finally get pass the worm gear. 



I will be inserting the new bearings from the impeller-end of the shaft.


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

I got the new cone bearing, cups, snap clips, seals, and bushings installed. Put the bearing cups in the freezer last night as suggested and all went together pretty easily. However, installing the roll pin into the ring gear/shaft was a real PITA since it required perfect alignment but can only be accessed from the oil filler hole. All it took was a tiny misalignment and all bets are off. After 2 failed attempts, I figured out a 'trick'. I used a short bolt on the other end of the hole to help keep everything aligned as the roll pin is being driven in. Then the roll pin would simply push the temporary bolt out of the hole once it reached the other end. The bolt had to fit snug to lock the ring gear and shaft together, but loose enough to press in by finger since there's no room for tools. The gearbox is all button up now and I have filled it with 70w-90 Mobile 1 gear oil. Going to monitor it for leaks. 

A few questions:

1. How full should I fill the gearbox? I left about 1/2" air.

2. Jumping ahead, when I install my sealed bearing for the auger and impeller, should I install them dry? Or should I smear some grease on them?


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

1. The manual for mine said something about remove both plugs, then top the machine back on the handlebars and fill the fill hole until it comes out of the drain hole and then plug them up. I don't remember what I did, but I might have filled mine most of the way.

2. I installed the sealed bearing for the impeller dry. I put a few drops of some motor oil on the bronze bushings on the auger outsides.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

I leave the lower plug in, fill from the upper plug until it spills over, then seal it up. The gear oil spout fits nicely right into the filler hole. MH


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

I've noticed that the filler holes on the 10,000 series gearbox is located differently from the the first series. The 10,000 has the drain on the bottom (makes sense), and the filler on the front. The first series has the drain on the front (odd), and the filler on the top. Following the filling instructions for the 10,000 (rocking it back onto its handlebars) would imply that only about 1/2 of the gear box is filled. Unfortunately, there are no filling instructions in the manual for the first series. 

I've always thought it was weird on the first series to have the drain plug on the front instead of the bottom. But perhaps the design intention was to use the drain hole to regulate the amount of oil to fill.

Here's a thought for the first series:

1. leave the machine on level ground
2. open both plugs
3. fill from the top hole until it spills out of the hole in the front. that would be around the 1/2 way point.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

Yeah, now that I think of it, that's how I did it...let it spill out the bottom hole. You only want it half full or it will heat up on you. The roll pin was a bear for me, too. I ended up putting a bevel on one end of the pin with my bench grinder so I could get it started in the shaft hole. I had my L.E.D. cap light on to see what I was doing. I had the whole auger assembly less the augers clamped in my bench vice between the fans of the impeller. Once I managed to start the pin, I drove it home with an oversized punch. Not a job I want to do again any time soon. MH


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## WestminsterFJR (Dec 30, 2013)

Here's an update on my '61. I finally buttoned up the gearbox after replacing the auger and impeller seals, bushings, impeller cone bearings/races, 3 sealed bearings, and roll pins. Installed a new scraper bar+hardware, and shear pins. Also polished the auger bearing cups and bolts. When I spin the auger, all I hear is 'Swoosh, swoosh!'


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## HillnGullyRider (Feb 9, 2014)

Now that is clean original condition...I've seen em rust worse just sitting in the garage out here in the salty midwest. Have you seen this parts stash? I think that is an early bucket and chassis.


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