# SINGLE STAGE Self Propelled ????



## Lottstodo (Feb 16, 2018)

I have read many articles about how all the companies try different tactics or new features to try to grab market share of business. One of which was making 2 stage machines that had no throttle control making it more user friendly, like the smaller single stages were.

If this is true then why hasn't any MFG that makes the nice small single stages put a driven axle on one that is still small enough to use where a big 2 stage is totally clumsy and awkward., and again for market share I know many people that would use one that took the push effort out and lose the auger drive BS that puts more strain on a persons back than a 2 stage does.

I have a brand new simplicity SS922EX that was purchased for $793.00 in 2015 and was used 2 times. The lady that sold it in a yard sale for $35.00 Said it was a beast to push and pull and she couldnt use it.

I am even looking at a rechargable drill conversion to make it propelled. I love the size but cant take the abuse on the back.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Single stage snowblowers are meant to be "self propelled"..just not with driven wheels.
the auger itself is supposed to just touch the ground, and propel the machine forward as it spins..
Simplicity says for this model:



> Auger-Assisted Drive System
> Keeps rotor in constant contact with pavement
> Helps you move the snow blower forward with little effort
> Increases speed and cleans clear to the surface.


https://www.snowblowersdirect.com/Simplicity-1696233-Snow-Thrower/p8717.html

I dont really know how much help it actually provides though..
But if the augers werent touching the ground properly, it wouldn't be helping at all..
in which case the operator would have to push the machine forward with a lot more effort..

Is it possible in this case the augers are too high? perhaps not properly adjusted when new?

Scot


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## evh (Jun 22, 2015)

To make the single stage self propelled, simply tilt forward. I have used many single stages for over 35 years, they all work this way. I have a steep incline at the end of my driveway that gets very slippery. Tilt forward, up I go.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Wow, that's an awesome score for $35!! Congrats. I have limited SS experience so far, but from what I've seen, if you lift the handles enough, you may have to hold it *back*, rather than pushing it forward. Am I missing something? I haven't gotten to use mine in deep snow yet. Maybe you have to push more in deeper/denser snow than I've experienced. 

Regardless, Toro has machines that do what you're describing. They put their Personal Pace variable-self-propelling system on their Snowmaster rubber-paddled single-stage blowers: 

https://www.toro.com/snowmaster

They sound like a pretty cool bridge between SS and 2-stage. They've been on the market for a few years, but I haven't seen a whole lot of discussion about them. 

As long as the transmissions hold up, they seem like they should still be pretty "tossable", like a normal SS, but with some extra help in getting themselves around. Unlike a 2-stage, there's no changing gears, clutching, etc, so I'd imagine they're pretty quick for maneuvering back and forth, when a 2-stage becomes fairly clumsy.


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## LawnToro (Dec 28, 2018)

Lottstodo said:


> I have read many articles about how all the companies try different tactics or new features to try to grab market share of business. One of which was making 2 stage machines that had no throttle control making it more user friendly, like the smaller single stages were.
> 
> If this is true then why hasn't any MFG that makes the nice small single stages put a driven axle on one that is still small enough to use where a big 2 stage is totally clumsy and awkward., and again for market share I know many people that would use one that took the push effort out and lose the auger drive BS that puts more strain on a persons back than a 2 stage does.
> 
> ...


Any of those 22" Simplicity/Snapper/Brute/Briggs and stratton snow blowers are hard to push. I use one, and they are a beast to us. I have a Toro powerclear, and it is awesome.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

LawnToro said:


> Any of those 22" Simplicity/Snapper/Brute/Briggs and stratton snow blowers are hard to push. I use one, and they are a beast to us.


Interesting. Any thoughts on why those models are tougher to handle? 

Can they not pull themselves forward as effectively as other machines? If so, why would that be? Do the paddles not hit the ground firmly enough? Or do their scraper bars drag too hard on the ground, something like that?


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## LawnToro (Dec 28, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Interesting. Any thoughts on why those models are tougher to handle?
> 
> Can they not pull themselves forward as effectively as other machines? If so, why would that be? Do the paddles not hit the ground firmly enough? Or do their scraper bars drag too hard on the ground, something like that?


From what I see, the scraper bar is too large for the paddles. Even when there is only an inch or two of fluff, it is still hard to push. The paddles don't make sufficient contact with the ground. If I try to tilt up on it, snow kicks out from under the scraper bar. Plus, mine is gutless. Can't do the end of the driveway.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

The Toro Personal Pace lawnmower is terrific!!! I have demo on fry ground the Toro Personal Pace snowblower, same, terrific. I would think in dry snow it would be awesome.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

LawbToro, that's too bad. The big Briggs-made machines (1222?) seem like the most powerful SS on the market, at 250cc. 

The only other SS-style machine in that power range that I can think of is the Toro 824 SnowMaster, at 252cc. But it's not as mechanically simple as a traditional SS, if that was a consideration.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

The single stage units have been much improved in the last forty years of my owning them. If I was not in bind for needing a snow thrower when the first two ended up in the snow blower hospital I would have 4 of them and I should have said firmly " I WANT THEM REPAIRED" and I will buy a new one in the mean time. So I relented and bought a new one and they went to the scrap pile (((((((.














I would have 4 of them in the stable barking and howling and scratching at the garage door to get out and run around and throwing snow or dead grass at each other. 
They get really get muddy when they chase each down in to the drainage ditch trying to catch the grey squirrels when trying to get rid of them by throwing water at them.


I certainly can see Toro building a higher horsepower single stage with the rubber paddles as using the power curve paddle design eliminates the need to build a solid steel cross auger that would weigh more in a push type single stage. 




















It takes a while to get rid of the "END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER" with a single stage due to the compaction and the fools using too much salt. In this case taking small bites and using fluid film helps a huge amount when getting rid of the END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER and feeding the moat monsters with its remains. 


A heavy single stage walk behind unit on tracks would sell especially if it had a 12 horse engine and 24 inches wide as a 13 inch diameter solid cross auger would be a real workhorse with a tall chute and spout. If the cross auger had a 4 inch solid tube with 
a 4 1/2 inch deep solid ribbon with a 3 inch separation between the auger flights with 4 center paddles would be a kick butt snow blower for commercial use that would also have zero issues for homeowner use. I doubt we will see this type of snow thrower as it will cost more to make and the price would be higher. It would out perform any two stage but it would cost more to buy BUT IT would never have the issues a 2 stage does with a low speed worm to spur gear drive for the cross auger and the snow would not be pushed forward by the cross auger as it would pull it all in and throw it with no issues.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

The only SS I've ever used is the Ariens Path Pro I just bought used last month. At first I didn't like it because it was in fact hard to push, much harder than the Ariens Deluxe 24. I read the manual (why don't more people do that?) and looking at a couple of youtube videos I found that by pushing the scraper bar back the augers would contact the pavement more. After the adjustment it worked fine and it's a keeper. Also lifting us a little on the handle helps a lot if that is needed. Most often it is not.

Admittedly I haven't used it in more than 3" of snow. If/when we ever get a decent snowfall I'll post my impressions.


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## LawnToro (Dec 28, 2018)

leonz said:


> The single stage units have been much improved in the last forty years of my owning them. If I was not in bind for needing a snow thrower when the first two ended up in the snow blower hospital I would have 4 of them and I should have said firmly " I WANT THEM REPAIRED" and I will buy a new one in the mean time. So I relented and bought a new one and they went to the scrap pile (((((((.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The plow piles we get are not that big. I have a Toro Power Clear 721 RC(212 cc single stage, 21") and a smaller Power Clear 180 (87 cc single stage, 18"), and it can take the plow pile fine. Even my old Powerlite (98cc single stage, 16") can take them better than the newer briggs. The engine is plenty powerful, and it throws alright in deep snow. It is just too hard to push.


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## RobertSX4 (Nov 17, 2017)

I have a true self propelled SS, but its as big as a modern day 2 stage


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

LawnToro said:


> The plow piles we get are not that big. I have a Toro Power Clear 721 RC(212 cc single stage, 21") and a smaller Power Clear 180 (87 cc single stage, 18"), and it can take the plow pile fine.


Can I ask how you like the 721? That's what I was trying to find while used-machine shopping recently. I ended up with an older 2-stroke 21" Toro SS. I'm sure it won't be as powerful as the 721, but hopefully it will be fairly capable. 

RoberSX4, what machine are you referring to?


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## LawnToro (Dec 28, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> Can I ask how you like the 721? That's what I was trying to find while used-machine shopping recently. I ended up with an older 2-stroke 21" Toro SS. I'm sure it won't be as powerful as the 721, but hopefully it will be fairly capable.
> 
> RoberSX4, what machine are you referring to?


I personally love it. It can take a foot of snow like nobody's business. In November, we got 13.9" of heavy, wet snow that started out as rain. It threw it a good 30 feet at least. The two cycle ones are the best! They too, can throw snow like crazy. The only thing to take note of is that the paddles do wear rather quickly. What model did you get?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Wow, that's awesome, if it can handle a foot of heavy snow! 

I got a 221QR, which seems to be in the same vein as the 3650. Same 141cc 2-stroke, but 21" wide. I'm sorting out a carb issue at the moment, then will install my new OEM paddles, scraper bar, and belt. And then hope for snow! I can only hope mine will be able to handle as much snow as yours, that would be great.


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