# Best snowblowers in history of snowblowers



## Thekidmechanic05 (Dec 4, 2018)

I wanna see what you guys think. I personally think that the ariens 10000 series blowers knock everything out of the park. The only thing I don’t like is the short chute but other than that it is a literal tank. Cast iron everything. Also I like the toro power shift because of it no shear pin feature and giant augers. What do you guys think? Here’s a pic of my new machine.


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## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

I'm partial to Simplicity, which is what I used growing up. They've been making essentially the same chassis for over 30 years now. Rock solid.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

I'm partial to Simplicity also, especially the Professional series as shown above with the rectangular tubing. However Nothing Nothing can beat the 12hp Gravely Convertible, all gear driven, all cast iron, 2 speed auger, weighs 600 lb. It will bury a tunnel in a State plowed 12' packed mound at an intersection. It will throw across a 4 lane street and hit the buildings on the other side of the sidewalks.


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

I second the 10,000 series Ariens - and if I had to narrow it down further, I'd nominate the 910962/910995 combination and it's alt modeled twins such as the 10962/10995.

When looking across the nation on CL to see what old school used blowers others are selling - the most common blower I see of any make/model is an Ariens 10k with the "7HP dual attachment handled/one lefty under clutch lever" setup.

Most every time, it's a '962/'995. It may have a replacement Tec motor, it may have a Predator...but they seem to be in every area of the country in high numbers yet today.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

I recluse myself... :wink:


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## rod330 (Oct 9, 2015)

I don't think my old Gilson is the "best" but it could be in the top 10 conversation. Like most folks, I'm always disappointed when I see peeling paint and rust bubbles on many machines built in the last 20 years. Yet, old iron from the 1970's and 1980's look like they'll easily survive another 40+ years with proper maintenance.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

I third the Ariens 10,000 series. Definitely "hall of fame" worthy!
I bought my 1971 Ariens in 2009.. a decade later its still my primary snowblower, in the lake effect snow belt of Western NY.
And its the machine that inspired my Ariens webpage.













I now have two 1971 Ariens and a '91, im basically set for life.


Scot


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> I recluse myself... :wink:


Good to see ya, Ronin. Hope all is well on the hill.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Of the 10000 series, I prefer the 910019 and the 910018, models...1973 and 74. Love the old design with the more modern safety. My first choice would be any of the 924 series, with my preference being the 4 bolt bigger wheels...but love them all. Third choice would be the mighty Powershift for operation and quality of build, but not first choice because of maintenance and parts.


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## Forum043287 (Jan 12, 2019)

I'd Say Honda Snowblowers. I got the 1332 Model. More pros than cons for me wins this snowblower. I am young and able to move it, so may not be for older people


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

JLawrence08648 said:


> I'm partial to Simplicity also, especially the Professional series as shown above with the rectangular tubing. However Nothing Nothing can beat the 12hp Gravely Convertible, all gear driven, all cast iron, 2 speed auger, weighs 600 lb. It will bury a tunnel in a State plowed 12' packed mound at an intersection. It will throw across a 4 lane street and hit the buildings on the other side of the sidewalks.


I had a Gravely snowblower something or other along with the sickle bar for cutting brush along with a useless plow blade. Not sure I place that on my list of recommendations.

I HAD ONE OF THOSE DOGS!!! Definitely NOT in the best category including the sickle bar. And that sucker was long! Memory of it makes me shudder.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

How far we have advanced from yesterday. I once loved my buddy's Model A Ford ......off track, so back to old snowblowers.

Yes today's machines along with many dating back 30 years or so started to include electric start, lights, heated grips and available cabs. Sure, some of those features may have been available as an extra option whereas today most with the exception of a cab are standard


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

foggysail said:


> I had a Gravely snowblower something or other along with the sickle bar for cutting brush along with a useless plow blade. Not sure I place that on my list of recommendations.


Many have owned the first, the older 7.6hp, I can understand your disdain.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Thekidmechanic05 said:


> I wanna see what you guys think. I personally think that the ariens 10000 series blowers knock everything out of the park. The only thing I don’t like is the short chute but other than that it is a literal tank. Cast iron everything. Also I like the toro power shift because of it no shear pin feature and giant augers. What do you guys think? Here’s a pic of my new machine.


* You think the Drum Augers are big on the POWERSHIFT???? You Better Have a LOOKSEE at The OLD SCHOOL TORO'S. k:k:k:k:k:k:k:k:k:*


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## topher5150 (Nov 5, 2014)

bisonp said:


> I'm partial to Simplicity, which is what I used growing up. They've been making essentially the same chassis for over 30 years now. Rock solid.


I have one just like that although I've been favoring my John Deere 260's 42" blower attachment, I like using the 860 for the lighter stuff, and getting the end of the driveway cleared out. I noticed a couple of years ago after I moved in that the guy down the road from me has one too.


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## Sparkland (Sep 9, 2016)

My favorite snowblower was the Honda HS50, circa 1980. The paint is still bright red with little or no rust. I never broke a sheer pin in the 8 years I owned it. That is probably because the previous owner replaced the sheer pins with regular bolts. I have already broken 2 sheer pins on my new Honda HSS724.


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## adegrno (Jul 6, 2017)

Nice looking HS50 you have there. 

Sent fra min SM-G960F via Tapatalk


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## Lottstodo (Feb 16, 2018)

Even with the new Ariens 28 DLX my vote is for my old 2 stick 10000. how many other snowblowers could you set in motion blowing snow and let go and walk over to your coffee cup grab a drink and walk back and and continue as you were... try that with the new ones!


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

For the consumer the best choice was the single stage snow blower made by the following manufacturers in no particular order from 1967-1990

1. WheelHorse

2. Simplicity

3. John Deere

4. International Harvester Company 

5. Grasshopper-they still offer a single stage shaft driven snow thrower in their product line the last time I checked.



The older machines used the belt drive to a gearbox or V belt pulleys in the case of wheel horse and International Harvester and Simplicity and john Deere to the snow blower rotor chain drive for each model.

The larger wheel horses had Renault engines in them and they still employed a small V belt from the engine crankshaft to a drive pulley for the PTO shaft to the belly mower gearbox and for the snow blower.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

I don't have the long history with snow blowers that some of you guys do, and certainly not spanning generations. So my favorite so far is the Ariens Deluxe 24 in large part because of the Auto Turn, which for me has so far worked perfectly.

My first snowblower was an Ariens 724 which we ended up giving to my wife's father when he got to his mid 60's and still insisted on shoveling his ~300 foot driveway. The man had zero mechanical ability and I don't know that he ever even used it, but hey ya do what ya can for family. When he passed it went to one of my wife's brothers, who also has a very long driveway.

The 724 was replaced by an 824 that worked fine, but when I got to my mid to late 60's that straight shaft axle was beginning to be a bit much of a workout, combined with some cardiac, knee, and shoulder issues. So I gave that one to the other BIL and bought the Deluxe 24, which so far I'm very happy with.

Oh, along the way I experimented with an Ariens Path Pro SS found on CL, but it was a bit more effort to use than I thought it would be so it is destined to be given to a relative later on. There's nothing wrong with it as far as I can tell, it just isn't what I thought it would be.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

micah68kj said:


> Good to see ya, Ronin. Hope all is well on the hill.



All good, thanks Buddy. Hours in the day still short but it's 54*F today. Yanmarrrrr's back in the shed, getting the tractors out. :thumbsup:


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Back in the 60's the first blower I ever used was the Jari Jaw owned by the Parsonage down the street. It was a beast (and was painted like one!) and had a huge auger housing with 2 auger sets. Nothing would stop it - built like a tank, and twice as heavy!


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

JLawrence08648 said:


> I'm partial to Simplicity also, especially the Professional series as shown above with the rectangular tubing. However Nothing Nothing can beat the 12hp Gravely Convertible, all gear driven, all cast iron, 2 speed auger, weighs 600 lb. It will bury a tunnel in a State plowed 12' packed mound at an intersection. It will throw across a 4 lane street and hit the buildings on the other side of the sidewalks.


You are correct. Nothing can beat those old Gravely's. I love running into those "Big Box Store Home Cheapo" machines and watching the old Gravely shread them like they are plastic into a million pieces. Those Gravelys also like to throw bricks and firewood logs quite a distance when caught in the path of the Gravely, and the Gravely suffers no damage. Too bad they don't make them anymore. Ariens got really cheap when they took over Gravely and stopped making them old heavy duty machines. All they make now is cheap junk with the Gravely name on it.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I've got a few Gravelys, and I really like the 12 hp Commercial for most tasks. I've got a few of the "dogeater" blowers, and one of the more modern ones as well. I use mine mostly for brush hogging, but have the posthole digger attachment, rotary plow, finish mower attachment, cultivator attachment, broom attachment, sprayer attachment, and probably a few more I can't remember. The last fifteen years, I just left the brush hog on....I'm too lazy to swap attachments now.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

The 3 two wheel mules that I know of that are sold here in the states are the BCS and Grillo and Ferrari and they are all gear driven and the attachments are gear driven except for the rotary lawn mowers where the gear box transfers power to V belts that spin the mower blades.

They are all well built machines and the 2 stage gear driven BertaFranco snow blowers that can be mounted on them are heavy and well constructed.


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## bigredmf (Jan 16, 2018)

I own a 1977 Gravely 566, this has a Kohler K301 12 HP engine
With both a early style dogeater pre 1960 26” blower or a later MA210 26” blower it will out throw any blower I have ever seen in use.
Across the road and into the second story windows of the house across the street. 
It’s is long and heavy but remarkably nimble. All gear drive and direction may be changed from forward to reverse instantly.

It’s relatively dangerous to operate with no operator present controls but will blow though 6’ of compacted plow snow.
I sold both of my blower attachments but will pick up a 28-34” one as soon as I find a clean one.
I probably mentioned this before but I picked up a wooden handle corn broom in the dogeater. It promptly ate and discharged the whole handle and only tripped the clutch when the broom section was leaving the second stage and jammed in the chute.

Truly an animal.

When I would run it people would stop their cars to watch it operate.

Tons of fun!
Red



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I too have a 12hp 70's Gravely as my current project machine. All torn apart in the garage getting a makeover.
That said...it was great to see Yanmar Ronin check in and remind us where all the actual "best" snowblowers can actually be found and sadly it's not North America.


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## Bobami (Feb 21, 2016)

I own a 1984 John Deere 826 that I am very fond of. It looks very similar to the Ariens in post #7? 

Did Ariens make snowblowers for John Deere in 80’s?

JD 826 has same shaped tear drop bucket, same auger bushings with triangular housing, same shape chute?

Very curious if I really have a green Ariens LOL?


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Bobami said:


> I own a 1984 John Deere 826 that I am very fond of. It looks very similar to the Ariens in post #7?
> 
> Did Ariens make snowblowers for John Deere in 80’s?
> 
> ...


826 were made by JD, after in the late 80s came TRS & TRX made by Murray, in late 90s came the D, 826D, they were made by Ariens.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

the best, a little beast that tackles everything


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## Bobami (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks for the JD history lesson! I never realized Murray was involved as well.


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## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

Here is a newer Gravely in action. And a Platinum RapidTrak. Long-winded video but kind of fun.


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## Bluejoe (Nov 29, 2016)

Hey What engine is used ? Does it come in a track version? How about cost


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Bluejoe said:


> Hey What engine is used ? Does it come in a track version? How about cost



Which machine are you referring to? several have been discussed in this thread.


Scot


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## Doublee2005 (Nov 23, 2014)

*my 1963 solidly in top 10 conversation especially after mods*


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## Skids (Dec 19, 2012)

I really did like my Toro PowerShift 824. (I think the mf date was 1989) Heavy gage sheet metal - even the paint job was incredibly durable. I liked the easy of maintenance and repair - Toro designed it to stand on the face of the bucket, or pitch back on its' handles. The three piece bucket with the bolt on sides was rugged and easy to work with. For me, the drum style auger was a miss, and I seldom used the PowerShift - I installed a manual locker which helped a lot.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Lottstodo said:


> Even with the new Ariens 28 DLX my vote is for my old 2 stick 10000. how many other snowblowers could you set in motion blowing snow and let go and walk over to your coffee cup grab a drink and walk back and and continue as you were... try that with the new ones!


You could do that with the old Gravely "L" model walkbehind with the "Snowcannon" on it, but it will get away from you if you let it go too long and you will have to run after it to catch it. Some of the newer 5000 series would do the same thing, but unfortunately after Ariens took over Gravely, Ariens got cheap with everything and didn't want that old indestructible iron around anymore and stopped making them because they just wouldn't die and they couldn't sell you a new disposable one to take its place.


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

bisonp said:


> Here is a newer Gravely in action. And a Platinum RapidTrak. Long-winded video but kind of fun.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfC7LMfMDpc


Yup, that's a beast. Put some X-Trac tires on there and you're unstoppable.


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## gwbeyer (Oct 6, 2018)

So who made the Ariens shown in #7? As noted it is nearly identical to the JD 826...


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## Snowbelt_subie (Dec 20, 2016)

My vote is the Honda HS621 enough blower for most people. great reliability, grunt and ease of use.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

gwbeyer said:


> So who made the Ariens shown in #7? As noted it is nearly identical to the JD 826...



If you are referring to post #7 in this thread, that is a 1971 Ariens made by Ariens.
It's not really very similar to the 1990's John Deere machines made by Ariens.
The 1990's John Deere snowblowers made by Ariens are nearly identical to 1990's Ariens models. 


Scot


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## Jeffrey Bostian (Dec 20, 2019)

Wow! That Jari is one bad-ass blower!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

My go to machine of all my seven blowers is my Yardman 7100. Goes through anything with ease, and throws it just awesome.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Interesting thread but I will have to recluse myself also. No experience with any brand but Honda , especially the 34 year old HS55 and my 29 year old HS80 which are built like tanks and have never let me down.


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## Ian Ariens 924 (Dec 22, 2015)

Had to add my thoughts
I have used my 1978 Ariens 924 series 32” for 10 years, never let me down.


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

I'm fortunate to have several different brands of the snowblowers already mentioned including 10,000 Ariens, tracked Honda and a Gravely. The Gravely is a commercial 5665 with a 12 HP Kohler K301 with 26" snow cannon. I've only used it once in the snow and it's everything others have already said. The machine weighs 500 lbs and the snowblower is well over 100 lbs. It's probably 5-1/2 feet long and quite a handful to turn around but it will drill through a snow-packed bank and hurl a great volume of snow.

The tracked Honda is also a killer machine and under certain snow conditions, it can paste a tree trunk with snow way up high. The machine handles much better with the side-mounted commercial skid shoes. For a really big snowfall total 16"+, this machine has fantastic performance. 

My wife's Ariens 924 series ST-824 is a good all-rounder but the 10,000 Ariens is my favorite for sentimental reasons (my father bought one new in 1969 which I now have). A 10,000 Ariens with a 7 HP can handle 90% of my needs and it doesn't take up too much space in the garage during the off season. I like working on it too.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

badbmwbrad said:


> I'm fortunate to have several different brands of the snowblowers already mentioned including 10,000 Ariens, tracked Honda and a Gravely. The Gravely is a commercial 5665 with a 12 HP Kohler K301 with 26" snow cannon. I've only used it once in the snow and it's everything others have already said. The machine weighs 500 lbs and the snowblower is well over 100 lbs. It's probably 5-1/2 feet long and quite a handful to turn around but it will drill through a snow-packed bank and hurl a great volume of snow.
> 
> The tracked Honda is also a killer machine and under certain snow conditions, it can paste a tree trunk with snow way up high. The machine handles much better with the side-mounted commercial skid shoes. For a really big snowfall total 16"+, this machine has fantastic performance.
> 
> My wife's Ariens 924 series ST-824 is a good all-rounder but the 10,000 Ariens is my favorite for sentimental reasons (my father bought one new in 1969 which I now have). A 10,000 Ariens with a 7 HP can handle 90% of my needs and it doesn't take up too much space in the garage during the off season. I like working on it too.


A+ on the Gravely. Those "Old Iron" dinosaurs were just about unstoppable and would out-do just about anything out there. I have a couple of them, and some of the "L" models.
When the going get too tough for anything else, break out the Gravely.
People never ran a real snowblower till they ran one of those old Gravely's, and sometimes you had to "Man-Handle" them, they were no "Lightweight" machine.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

.
Looks like the list of the ten (?) Snowblower Hall Fame Inductees is taking shape

1. 10000 Series Ariens
2. Any of the Honda Track models
3. Gravely's with the Dog Eater or MA-210 blower attachment 
4. Simplicity Large Frame models (aka Signature Pro)

_I wish to nominate the following models for consideration:_

*5. Toro PowerClear single stage models*. After a snow storm, take a ride through any dense neighborhood and you will always see a few of these out there working. And the commercial operators buy them by the dozen for apartment complexes and such.
*
6. Toro PowerMax HD models with the Anti Clogging System Impeller and Quick Stick chute control.* Same design since the early 2000's. They got it right. 
*
7. A Troy-Bilt/Craftsman/CC model *. There are thousands and thousands sold every year and that says something. No idea which model stands out though. Is there a "Gem" in here?
*
8. Modern Ariens series with SHO, AutoTurn and Top loader cast iron gearbox.* Already on its way to glory. Models such as the 28" Deluxe SHO or 24" Platinum.
*
9. The Tecumseh Snow King flat head engine*. So dominant at one time and many are still in service - I think it deserves to be in here
*
10. Any of the Yamaha Track models.* No (legal) presence in the US due to some stupid agreement but elsewhere they compete nose to nose with (or exceed) the Honda's in terms of throwing ability and quality

.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I think this really needs to be broken into the serious heavy duty type Ala commercial walk behind and the home owner class (though the two can cross depending on your house!)


Having run through the gamut, I put the Yamaha as the best. 







That said, I have operated the old Deers (early 80s) Toro from the same era, Honda Tracked, MTD, Sears Arctic and the Yamaha. 



For many in Valdez AK (300 inches of snow a year) , the Yamaha was the blower of choice even for commercial/city use. 



My brother had the better Toro (better engine) and I liked the Toro a lot, that drum Auger worked well for sloppy snow though not as good in carving into a berm. Toro took a long time to put a chute discharge adjust on. Also for grass which I had acquired with the house (paths in the back yard) the Wheels were not good. 



That said, for its time, the Yamaha was simply the best, vastly better than Honda in the same width class and beat out Toro with the Chute adjustment . Ergonomics were much better, the Honda at the time you had to reach down to turn the chute, a real pain. Ok if you did not have to rotate the chute but still a pain. 



The clearing on the 24 inch was much better with a higher chute (22 inches) vs 12 or some such of the Honda. 



Given in the day there was no trigger control, the Yamaha turned much better than the Honda. 



The engine had a lug down factor that beat everyone else high speed need. Diesel like torque at low rpms. 



So I will put the Yamaha Blowers in as the best of all time, not sure how they compare now, still good I believe but others may have caught up.


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## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

bigredmf said:


> I own a 1977 Gravely 566, this has a Kohler K301 12 HP engine
> With both a early style dogeater pre 1960 26” blower or a later MA210 26” blower it will out throw any blower I have ever seen in use.
> Across the road and into the second story windows of the house across the street.
> It’s is long and heavy but remarkably nimble. All gear drive and direction may be changed from forward to reverse instantly.
> ...


YEAH, dangerous to operate. Mine had a fan mounted to blow cool air onto the engine. ****....what a contraption


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

Put me down for an Ariens 10000 series A+ machine. I have been using them since the early 1970's. Even during the deepest snow, they have always got the job done. I currently have 2, 910962's, originally with 7HP TECs. They now have 212 Predators. I also have a 910918, originally with a 8HP TEC, also which I also changed to a 212 Predator. I use all three and they continue to " Get The Job Done"


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Ariens was never advertised up here, I have looked and it might be a good option.


None of the box stores carry a tracked model but the equipment MFG listed might.


I will have to drop in and look. 



Yamaha may have a fatal failure and getting parts is not easy so I keep an eye out. 



I do note the newer tracked Honda/Ariens weigh quite a bit more than the YS624T, so some of the comments about cheap don't seem to apply.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

the one i have in working condition when the big storm hits!


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

If you add a chute from an 8/24 machine... you will change your opinion. 



Thekidmechanic05 said:


> I wanna see what you guys think. I personally think that the ariens 10000 series blowers knock everything out of the park. The only thing I don’t like is the short chute but other than that it is a literal tank. Cast iron everything. Also I like the toro power shift because of it no shear pin feature and giant augers. What do you guys think? Here’s a pic of my new machine.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Picture did not come through!


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## Jeffrey Bostian (Dec 20, 2019)

sscotsman said:


> I third the Ariens 10,000 series. Definitely "hall of fame" worthy!
> I bought my 1971 Ariens in 2009.. a decade later its still my primary snowblower, in the lake effect snow belt of Western NY.
> And its the machine that inspired my Ariens webpage.
> 
> ...


I wonder if I'm set for life. I just bought a 1966 8hp. Snow-Thro, have a Honda 621, and (for clean-up near my office, a small Toro single stage).


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I know I am set for life ….


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

I'd like to nominate the Briggs powered Simplicity (Sno-away) / Allis Chalmers (Tracker 7 or 8) from late 60's / early 70's.

I believe I'm the only active member that has ever used one but if you're an old iron aficionado, grab one of these. 

It was way ahead of it's time with it's controls...engage the handlebar lever for it to move (not stop).

They're pushed with a garden-tractor based slide-gear transmission and the locking differential allows you to turn on a dime with zero effort. 

The updraft carb on the Briggs flatty takes a little getting used to when rebuilding (mainly stopping it from leaking past the emulsion tube seat/seal) but it always starts on an easy pull. Migrating to electronic ignition is super simple; simply bolt-on the external coil; it's not a points-saver like on the tecs & Kohler-K electronic ignition kits.

EDIT: with the external coil, you can also add a stator and upgrade the flywheel for power generation. 











^^ I have some 15" x-tracs on order for her.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

classiccat said:


> I'd like to nominate the Briggs powered Simplicity (Sno-away) / Allis Chalmers (Tracker 7 or 8) from late 60's / early 70's.
> 
> I believe I'm the only active member that has ever used one but if you're an old iron aficionado, grab one of these.
> 
> ...


The Simplicity was like these? 





I had a 5hp Sno-Away, it was my first snowblower. I bought it in '01, I think, it was unfortunately quite tired. It had no spark, but the owner included an electronic ignition kit, whose instructions I blindly followed, and then it ran. I added a primer gas-cap, which helped with cold starts. 

The transmission was my favorite part. Geared, and with chains on the worn-smooth solid tires, it had tons of grip. I don't think mine had a differential. Unfortunately, with my 5hp engine, it wasn't very powerful. My mid-90's MTD 8hp 26", which I bought in '03, I think, was way-better in terms of power and blowing performance. Also for being able to just clear a storm without something falling off  

My Sno-Away had wear issues with the chains and sprockets. And the rubber paddles on the impeller were cracking. The bearing the impeller rode on was kinda shot, so it wobbled. 

A less-used version might have been a lot better. Personally, with my examples, the used MTD was a welcome upgrade in reliability and performance  Then my Ariens machines were nice improvements from the MTD.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

RedOctobyr said:


> The Simplicity was like these?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ny49Oguxg
> 
> I had a 5hp Sno-Away, it was my first snowblower. I bought it in '01, I think, it was unfortunately quite tired. It had no spark, but the owner included an electronic ignition kit, whose instructions I blindly followed, and then it ran. I added a primer gas-cap, which helped with cold starts.
> ...


Different than the sno-away show above (_*EDIT: I believe that's actually a snow-buster but I could be wrong on that one*_); I'm referring to the conventional 2nd stage where the impeller rotates parallel to the auger shaft (not perpendicular like the old bobcats or machine shown above).










Additionally, bearings are common ball bearings...way over-built. 

What I assume is the original impeller bearing was still tight as a drum; no wobble:


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

> I wonder if I'm set for life. I just bought a 1966 8hp. Snow-Thro, have a Honda 621, and (for clean-up near my office, a small Toro single stage).



That questions is what got me to looking at the Yamaha at 22 years old though its rock solid still.


If I had not been able to get the fuel tank part some years back..... and it was not easy as they changed it and it took serious digging by the former dealer (they still maintain Yamaha contacts or did last time I got shear pins) 



I do have neighbors that would assist me if the Yamaha broke down so I don't need an immediate backup. 



But if it failed something I could not fix then I would have to replace it.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Sometime it pays to run some figures out. 

I was looking for the best hp to width ratio and the Ariens 24 inch with a 369 cc engine would be that. That is a ..45 hp to width ratio (.3 is pretty good for most) kicker, 17 ft lbs torque (they don't list HP after all the hoopla)

The Yamaha YS-624-T has 15 ft lbs on the track machine and right at 17 ft lbs for the wheel machine. 

Now, can anyone beat that in a 6 hp engine? And its down low torque wise at 2400.


No wonder they were such beast, punched way the heck above their HP as torque is what does the work.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

RC20 said:


> Sometime it pays to run some figures out.
> 
> I was looking for the best hp to width ratio and the Ariens 24 inch with a 369 cc engine would be that. That is a ..45 hp to width ratio (.3 is pretty good for most) kicker, 17 ft lbs torque (they don't list HP after all the hoopla)
> 
> ...


The figures have been run out here many times in the past. 

Are you sure the Yamaha 171cc engine is putting out the same or more torque than say a 306cc Ariens AX engine is?

That would be quite a feat.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

RC20 said:


> I was looking for the best hp to width ratio and the Ariens 24 inch with a 369 cc engine would be that. That is a ..45 hp to width ratio (.3 is pretty good for most) kicker, 17 ft lbs torque (they don't list HP after all the hoopla)
> 
> The Yamaha YS-624-T has 15 ft lbs on the track machine and right at 17 ft lbs for the wheel machine.
> 
> Now, can anyone beat that in a 6 hp engine? And its down low torque wise at 2400.


Do you have a link for those engine specs? It seems... unexpected that a 6hp, ~200cc engine would make more torque than a 369cc engine. A small engine can produce more power by spinning faster if it can maintain torque as the RPM climbs. But it's less common for a naturally-aspirated smaller engine to produce more torque than a significantly-larger one. 

I found this for the 624, with 202cc, which lists 6ps (6hp) @ 4,000 RPM, which would be 7.9 ft-lbs at that RPM. 

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/656501/Yamaha-Ys624t.html?page=24#manual

I'd be curious to see more details of the engine, if it's somehow putting out that much torque.


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## ZAK77 (Nov 15, 2018)

classiccat said:


> I'd like to nominate the Briggs powered Simplicity (Sno-away) / Allis Chalmers (Tracker 7 or 8) from late 60's / early 70's.
> 
> I believe I'm the only active member that has ever used one but if you're an old iron aficionado, grab one of these.
> 
> ...


I'd have to agree since i have the Simplicity version of that blower and it is a beast. Well it may not be the biggest and baddest out there, it's still a heavy duty machine.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I will dig out the page and copy it. 



I had to translate the toque, so unless I got it wrong


https://www.convertunits.com/from/kg-m/to/foot+pound





> I did find that max torque was at 2800 rpm - certainly explains whey it lugs down and keep throwing so good - I did not think that kind of info would be in there. . 2.1 kg*m (I would have to look that up for ft lbs) - Wheel YS is 2.3, no idea why the difference.


Yahmah (old models) was a very long stroke engine.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

2.3 kg-m *is* 16.6 ft-lb, from what I can see. 

But even at only 2800 RPM, that torque would make 8.8 hp already, never mind as it sped up more towards the 4,000 RPM power spec that I saw for the 624 (6hp). So I guess something doesn't sound right. No way would you list the engine as 6hp if it was already making almost 9hp at a much lower RPM, unless your marketing department is very humble  

If the engine performs well, that's what counts. But it seems like maybe I'm missing something, or specs for different engines got crossed, etc.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

My Passat Diesel has a 134 hp engine and it gets 247 lbs of Torque. 

And its flat torque, runs 1900 to 3500 (hp max peak is 4000)

I never got deep into the math on torque and hp, but clearly you can manipulate it and the dealer did not say it was 8 hp, just that it performed like it was (torque) - I don;t have the curves to see how flat it is or is not. 

I have been to two sites for the conversion and they agree, it sure acts like it. I was into 24 inches of packed snow last night (first gear) and it just putted along and out it went. The chute was literally buried top to bottom and side to side. 

Passat is not a speed demon off the line , but once its rolling, I can drop it a gear or two (semi automatic) and go up through 100 mph easily (my wife asked me how I was doing that during passes) 

I can copy the data but its on page 7-2 of my shop manual that has a publication date of 1986.


It does not look to be a typo as the wheeled model is listed as 2.3 kg*m


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

ZAK77 said:


> I'd have to agree since i have the Simplicity version of that blower and it is a beast. Well it may not be the biggest and baddest out there, it's still a heavy duty machine.


I have an Allis Tracker 7 ( new condition from my FIL who died in the early 70's) and a Simplicity sno-Away 7 ( parts machine though it is operational)....they are really great machines.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Your diesel is probably a turbo. Which would have different characteristics than a naturally-aspirated small gas engine. Their torque and power curves would usually look rather different. 

In ft-lbs and hp, for all engines: 
power = (torque * RPM) / 5252

The info mentioned 2.3 kg*m, which is 16.6 ft-lbs, apparently at 2800 RPM. 

So (16.6 ft-lbs * 2800 RPM) / 5252 = 8.85 hp

I'm trying to reconcile how, if a 6hp engine could make that torque at that RPM, why would it still be sold as a 6hp? It's at *least* a 9hp, and that would only be if the torque plummeted at >2800 RPM, making the peak-torque also the peak-power (you might expect it to end up producing something like 10+ hp). It would be interesting to see the service manual page(s), when you got a chance. 

Please don't take any of this the wrong way, I'm not trying to sound insulting, or like I think you're making stuff up or anything. It just feels like there's a piece that's missing (or at least that I'm missing), because this set of specs seems quite high on torque (for a ~200cc 6hp engine), and is seemingly under-selling the engine's power, significantly. 

Even reputable manufacturers aren't probably that likely to really hold back on specs (like 9hp) that they've actually earned! That would, admittedly, be maybe a welcome change from the companies who were just making up inflated power numbers


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

No offense taken, I am still trying to untangle it. 

One aspect of it acting like a diesel is hp is at 4000 (though they listed max ops at 3800 so go figure)
As it slows down its dropping into the peak torque and that is what counts work wise. 

For years I had heard about the old John Deer diesel Johnny Poppers when the engine was part of the tractor frame and they had two side by side (horizontal twin) cylinders firing fore and aft. I got to a local tractor plow weekend demo and damned if they did not do just what people had said, bogged down till you swear they were going to stall but they just grunted and kept going (no turbo back then- I am sure there are U tubes out there) 









That is what the Yamaha sounds like. I did not even have it at max throttle for that packed snow (it was light to start with so it was not as dense as I have seen but when its been dense just max throttle and it still blows it)
While I worked mechanics for 30 some years and was pretty advanced in electrical and electronics (job title at the end was technician/ engineer) I just never got a feel for hp and torque and how it can be manipulated. I worked on some big iron early on, but we just fixed it. 

Yamaha is a side valve engine and they are noted for torque (don't know what underlies that) but the data seems to line up. 

The dealer sold hundreds into Valdez AK with their 300 inches of snow and that was over the Honda which cost less. I don't think they even carried the wheeled model, just the 6 and 8 hp tracked. 

I would have gone with the Honda as it cost less and money was tough, but the hp in the 24 inch width I needed was too low and its chute was like 15 inches vs the 22 for the Yamaha. I had a roof worth shoveled off into the driveway out front and onto the back deck I needed to clear. 

Never regretted the Yamaha both for the controls layout and its operation beat the daylights out of the 24 inch Honda (never ran a 28 Honda so don't know how those two compared) 

They laughed at me when I tried to bargain, they had at least 10 in the warehouse they had just gotten in and they would sell them all before spring at the list price. Not sure that is not the best money I ever spent.
That picture is it last year, 22 years old and it looks almost new and still works the same way.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I think I am getting some idea. HP is calculated from torque, not toque from HP. 



this article I think does a good job and I am still absorbing it. Its an interesting subject that is not intuitive to grasp. Like temperatures, those of us used to Deg F have a "feel" for it and not the same with Deg C until its converted into F. 



Horsepower vs Torque | The Fundamentals of Horsepower & Torque



So hp has to be derived from toque as I understand it, you cant work it the other way. Good to get challenged and made to work on it.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

It may be more common to measure torque, and then calculate horsepower. But regardless of which one you're measuring, from one, if you know RPM, you can calculate the other. It's a fixed relationship between them.


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## Honda1132 (Sep 2, 2016)

Vohl -a bit big for a driveway but I remember these being used to widen roads when I was younger. Manufactured in Quebec.

Vohl Snow Blower |


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

The Vohl may be fast, but how about these...


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

RedOctobyr said:


> It may be more common to measure torque, and then calculate horsepower. But regardless of which one you're measuring, from one, if you know RPM, you can calculate the other. It's a fixed relationship between them.



So that explains why the Passat has 247 ft lobs of torque from 1900 to 3500 rpm. 



Got it, close to 2000 rpm difference and no toque change.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Sorry if I misunderstood, but the formula relationship between torque and hp doesn't necessarily have much to do with why your Passat has a flat torque curve. That's due to how they designed the engine, from the fact that it has a turbo that comes on at low RPM, etc. 

The formula just determines the shape of the power curve (on the dynamometer plot) vs the torque curve. Take the torque value at any RPM, multiply by the RPM, divide it by 5252, and there's your power. 

This page lists a dynamometer plot for a Passat diesel engine, showing stock values in red, and with their engine-control software modifications in green. 
https://kermatdi.com/i-1102-new-q-pro-tdi-flash-tuning-for-2015-and-2016-jetta-golf-beetle-passat-sportwagen.html

The light red line is stock torque, dark red is stock power. The torque line is pretty flat, but it's not totally-flat. Otherwise, if you were still making the max 247 ft-lbs of torque at 3500 RPM, you'd be making 165 hp, not 134. 

But the graph helps show that relationship between torque and power. One scales with the other. The shape of the torque curve is a result of the engine type and design. But the power curve will always have a direct relation to the torque curve, since the power is calculated from the torque. When the torque curve shows a bump, for instance, the power curve will also have a bump.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

RedOctobyr said:


> Do you have a link for those engine specs? It seems... unexpected that a 6hp, ~200cc engine would make more torque than a 369cc engine. A small engine can produce more power by spinning faster if it can maintain torque as the RPM climbs. But it's less common for a naturally-aspirated smaller engine to produce more torque than a significantly-larger one.
> 
> I found this for the 624, with 202cc, which lists 6ps (6hp) @ 4,000 RPM, which would be 7.9 ft-lbs at that RPM.
> 
> ...


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

tdipaul said:


> ...


But note that the torque peak is way down at 2400RPM, not at 3600RPM where you actually run the engine for blowing snow. Wonder what it's down to at that speed?


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

tdiPaul shows the new Yamaha engine, not the old one. Which is cool, I was wondering. 



No curves for the old one, but the reason torque is desirable down low is as the engine slows down from its MAP hp, it dropping into where it does the most work (torque). 



RedOctobyer shows a torque curve for a 2015 Diesel not the flat toque 2005 Passat. He just can't accept that you can not derive the highly nebulous HP (horses, really) back to Torque. Per the experts it does not work that way. 



Of course the below picture is a fabrication (its not a diesel by the way).


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Yamaha made its mark with its engine, not the snowblower itself. while it was well done and had all the best of features of the time, it was a standard track configuration with a best practice control configuration (the chute controls were on the control panel not in some awkward position).

The engine torque was a function of its design, side valve and long stroke. The issue was it could not make the emissions with that setup. Detroit Diesel had the same issue with its 2 Stroke diesels that had millions out there. 

There are ways to tweak to max torque and Yamaha did them (without a turbo) . 

And the proof is in the running. I have run the higher hp machines and the only one that came close to the grunt the old Yamaha has was a big all iron machine, it did it with mass. Get it spinning and its hard to slow down. 

Our roof was 60 ft long and 15 feet (pure square footage, surveying would take that to flat, you get more property sq foot in hilly ground). That all went into a 4 ft area. 

2 and 3 ft of snow got dumped off the roof front and back on top of already 2 and 3 feet of snow and the Yamaha would blow it out just fine. 

I have run machinery all my life, form a go Kart to a Mine Class rock buggy 12 feet wide and 30 feet long you sat 10 feet off the ground. From stuff that could barely get out of its own way to some of the finest performing equipment (at the time). I know when something does what it says it will vs PR. 

While the dealer claimed it was like an 8 hp, it acts more like 10 hp. Figures back that up.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Full Disclosure: I thought I had a typo on the Passat. The torque curve is flat from 1750 to 2500 per some data and the manual says 3500. Will follow up with the experts. 

Its still flat and a lot of Torque per hp in a non truck engine.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

RC20 said:


> RedOctobyer shows a torque curve for a 2015 Diesel not the flat toque 2005 Passat. He just can't accept that you can not derive the highly nebulous HP (horses, really) back to Torque. Per the experts it does not work that way.
> 
> Of course the below picture is a fabrication (its not a diesel by the way).


I'm not sure how to read this. But if things are making a change to mocking, etc, then I'm out. I've been trying to have a civil & respectful discussion. Cheers.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

RC20 said:


> He just can't accept that you can not derive the highly nebulous HP (horses, really) back to Torque. Per the experts it does not work that way.


 Sorry @RC20, but you're dead wrong, and @RedOctobyr is correct. HP & Torque have a strict mathematical relationship: *HP* = *Torque* x RPM ÷ 5252 or *Torque = HP* x 5252 ÷ RPM

*TORQUE* is defined as a * FORCE* around a given point, applied at a *RADIUS* from that point. Note that the unit of TORQUE is one _pound-foot _ (often misstated), while the unit of *WORK* is one _foot-pound_.

*POWER* is the measure of how much *WORK* can be done in a specified *TIME.*

*"Technical Experts" ask customers:*_"Do you want your engine to make HORSEPOWER or TORQUE?"_
And the question is usually asked in a tone which strongly suggests that these "experts" believe power and torque are somehow mutually exclusive. 

In fact, the opposite is true, and you should be clear on these facts:


*POWER* (the rate of doing WORK) is dependent on *TORQUE* and *RPM*.
*TORQUE* and *RPM* are the MEASURED quantities of engine output.
*POWER* is CALCULATED from Torque and RPM.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

Sun comes up in the East despite all the argumentative to the contrary. The data confirms the field results. 



I have listed examples where torque is flat for a large range for which I am told can't occur and then its portended, well a Turbo changes that (really? it not in the formula is it?) So, despite the formula then there are exceptions to it even if you don't understand the formula someone is qualified to say, well that change it. .Wow. 



So, if the moon is up and you hold your nostrils closed you can beat the formula but otherwise....... sure, right. 



So, if you are going to argue, present the math and show me how you get something that you claim is impossible. Otherwise, you are just quoting stuff and don't understand the fundamentals. 






My book lists metric torque values and it lists two different torque Values for the Yamaha, one 6 and one 8. so its not a typo and the second value for 8 hp engine is in line percentage wise with the difference. As HP is derived form torque then you are allowed to make those comparisons. 



People in a poor small town that get 300 inches of snow a year of course would disagree with the ones who claim Yamaha did not produce what they said they did.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

RC20 said:


> So, if you are going to argue, present the math and show me how you get something that you claim is impossible. Otherwise, you are just quoting stuff and don't understand the fundamentals.
> 
> My book lists metric torque values and it lists two different torque Values for the Yamaha, one 6 and one 8. so its not a typo and the second value for 8 hp engine is in line percentage wise with the difference. As HP is derived form torque then you are allowed to make those comparisons.


 I guess that perhaps you just don't want to understand; torque varies with RPM. The same engine produces different measured torque values at different RPMs. HP is simply a calculated value, which has been misunderstood by many for the last century or so. According to @_skippy1969 & @_VintageYamaha the YS624 max operating speed is 4000RPM (others have operated it at 3600RPM), so what's really important is the measured torque available at that speed and not "Max Torque" that might be available down at 2400-2800RPM or so.

There are also different "6" engines; the older "6HP" Yamaha maxs at 2.1 kgf/m or 15.19 lb/ft @ 2800 RPM. The newer Yamaha MZ250 shows 11.6 lb/ft @ 2400 RPM.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

I am being told my torque is impossible by others. The presentation is the Greatest Blowers of All Time and if someone can challenge 15 ft lbs of torque out of 202cc then go for it. But no, just blowing smoke opinions. So for those who want their alternative facts, enjoy them. You still push up dirt in the end. 

Rather than a discussion, what would explain that I am told I am full of it, ok any xxx can have an opinion. 

I am told the 2.1 is impossible. 

I am told flat torque curves (agreed its a contradiction of terms but that is what they call them) is impossible. Well I proved that wrong and I still getting nonsense. 

Then I am told that a turbo changes that. Oh really, what else changes that? Facts, no. See a Turbo anywhere in the formula ? What else changes it? 

So, yes I am calling BS on those who have an opinion but don't have any data or math to back it up and I have both. There some great names for people like that and you can insert xxxxxxx here or whichever one you want. Frankly its like work when I quit, flipping out Voodoo magic was the answer not facts and fundamentals of concepts. 

And that is what is being argued, is my Yamaha - Engine Torque output values are not correct. Frankly I could give a rats ass less about HP - ain't anything out there on the planet that beat it, then, now and in the future. 

Well they are there and unless someone has the tech details they can list or present the math otherwise then its a bunch of smoke being blown.


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

Are we off the original topic here ?


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## Bulldogge (Nov 1, 2017)

Getting back to the original topic, I have an old MTD that I purchased new roughly 24 years ago. It was a 8/24 Tecumseh snow king engine. I didn't do anything but run this machine. I am telling you all I did was put fuel in this thing & installed a new plug every year, it would not stop running. In 22 years I never even changed the oil just checked it once in a while & added if it needed it & that was only a couple of times. I was a very bad owner of this machine, it was very very abused. I replaced 1 shear pin. I would put this machine through ****. In about the 20th year the carb started giving me problems so I would mess around with it. In the 22nd year I finally got tired of messing with the carb & bought a new Toro. I still have that old MTD in storage & one of these days I will put a new carb on it & I will bet that it will fire right up. 

P.S. I am a very responsible snow blower owner now. I do take very good care of my new Toro.


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## Yetiman (Jan 12, 2021)

"
Back in the 60's the first blower I ever used was the Jari Jaw owned by the Parsonage down the street. It was a beast (and was painted like one!) and had a huge auger housing with 2 auger sets. Nothing would stop it - built like a tank, and twice as heavy!



*Attachments*


jari.jpg
181.8 KBViews: 284
"
Jari2.jpg
198.2 KBViews: 340



We had a Jari Jaw when I was a kid. My dad inherited it from his uncle, and it was a BEAST ! It was already pretty old when we got it, (maybe 1974) but it kicked out the snow !


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## Darby (Dec 18, 2020)

Yetiman said:


> "
> Back in the 60's the first blower I ever used was the Jari Jaw owned by the Parsonage down the street. It was a beast (and was painted like one!) and had a huge auger housing with 2 auger sets. Nothing would stop it - built like a tank, and twice as heavy!
> 
> 
> ...


I like the Nose Art shown in Jari2.


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

So far, the 2 Ariens blowers are the best I have had. The Compact 24 does a great job now, just lacks the power my old ST824 had, but that can be changed with one swoop of the wrench.


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