# Do we still doubt Global Warming?



## Cutter (Mar 29, 2017)

I have used my Ariens 4 times this year, in November.....and 2 of those didn't really require the use of a snowblower....I did it just for fun. Haven't used my blower since early December, and we are already close to March. I have always had my doubts about the whole "Global warming" thing, but after this winter in Saskatchewan,which typically bogs people and vehicles down with snowstorms, I do have to wonder. Maintenance should be simple this year, pull the pan, change the oil, wax her up, and put her away. :surprise::smile2::smile_big::grin:


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

This isn’t the first without snow, won’t be the last. The earth is always going through cycles, and they happen with or without us. The ozone issue is 100% our fault but it’s now healing. Anything we do now the consequences won’t be seen in our life time. This is all my opinion on the research I’ve done myself. That said... totally sucks I can’t use my blower


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

Cutter, worldwide the past decade has been the hottest on record and the past 5 have been the hottest individual years. Having said that, climate change is the more appropriate term because record storms, winds and related issues have also been impacted.

There is no doubt the global climate is changing at an incredible rate and that human activity is largely to blame. The issue most people can't agree on is what, if anything can be done about it. While the USA and Canada can make changes, it's doubtful doing so will have a meaningful impact without similar changes worldwide. And that's not going to happen.


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

This isn’t the first without snow, won’t be the last. The earth is always going through cycles, and they happen with or without us. The ozone issue is 100% our fault but it’s now healing. Anything we do now the consequences won’t be seen in our life time. This is all my opinion on the research I’ve done myself. That said... totally sucks I can’t use my blower


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## CTHuskyinMA (Jan 14, 2019)

Cutter said:


> I have used my Ariens 4 times this year, in November.....and 2 of those didn't really require the use of a snowblower....I did it just for fun. Haven't used my blower since early December, and we are already close to March.


I’m jealous. I used mine once, in early December. Today and tomorrow we’re going to be in the 50’S Fahrenheit. No snow on the horizon.


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

I have not used my snowblower this winter! It's the other countries around the globe that are not reducing their carbon footprints. China, India and now Japan are huge polluters. Since the tsunami in Japan and the meltdown of their nuclear plant, Japan has started to build coal-fired power plants all over their country. 

The earth does go through heating and cooling cycles, but this recent global warming trend is probably due to industrialization and the invention of the internal combustion engine.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

e.fisher26 said:


> This isn’t the first without snow, won’t be the last. The earth is always going through cycles, and they happen with or without us. The ozone issue is 100% our fault but it’s now healing. Anything we do now the consequences won’t be seen in our life time. This is all my opinion on the research I’ve done myself. That said... totally sucks I can’t use my blower
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ozone depletion was caused by CFCs and the reason it's healing is because CFCs were banned in 1987, 33 years ago. At the healing rate, the ozone layer will be restored in the 2060s. Fortunately back then, people didn't have the view:


> Anything we do now the consequences won’t be seen in our life time.


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## Cutter (Mar 29, 2017)

Miles said:


> I have not used my snowblower this winter! It's the other countries around the globe that are not reducing their carbon footprints. China, India and now Japan are huge polluters. Since the tsunami in Japan and the meltdown of their nuclear plant, Japan has started to build coal-fired power plants all over their country.
> 
> The earth does go through heating and cooling cycles, but this recent global warming trend is probably due to industrialization and the invention of the internal combustion engine.


 Wow! Not at all? Thats crazy.
Makes one wonder about the future, doesn't it?:huh:


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## Cutter (Mar 29, 2017)

Tony P. said:


> Cutter, worldwide the past decade has been the hottest on record and the past 5 have been the hottest individual years. Having said that, climate change is the more appropriate term because record storms, winds and related issues have also been impacted.
> 
> There is no doubt the global climate is changing at an incredible rate and that human activity is largely to blame. The issue most people can't agree on is what, if anything can be done about it. While the USA and Canada can make changes, it's doubtful doing so will have a meaningful impact without similar changes worldwide. And that's not going to happen.



Ok, so I do agree with you,BUT, where my wife comes from, which is a drive 4.5 hours in length to the North of where we are, they have been finding fossils, and entire intact skeletal remains of Prehistoric Life, mainly Aquatic Life as in Crocodiles, and such.Look up "Big Bert" which is an ancient Crocodile, and you will find it came from an embankment near Carrot River, Saskatchewan. This entire area was a sea of massive proportions, and is now a dry land formation. What I am trying to say is that the earth has been in a constant state of change , for centuries . Up and down. So why are we so concerned now?:surprise::wink2::smile2:


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

Yeah, I am bummed out that I never got to use the snowblower this year. We had two light snows that turned into rain and cleaned off the driveway. The neighbor next door was using his lawn tractor yesterday to clean up leaves. I have never seen such a warm February.

Cutter, we've been heating huge fires inside the enclosed bottle of the earth's atmosphere for a couple of centuries now. That's the major difference between earlier civilizations and this industrialized one. My girlfriend is a climate-denier so I understand that the earth does go through cooling and heating changes over the eons. Hopefully, you are right that it is a natural change and not caused by humanity.


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## GreenMtnMan (Jan 5, 2014)

I have no idea whether or not manmade global climate warming change is occurring. I am dubious about the notion that the solution has to be that I pay more taxes and give up more freedom.


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

old mother earth has had many cycles of warm and cold, history is showing us more every year, 

yes sea fossils have been found in odd places .i well remember finding them on my great grand parents farm on top of the mountain in Schenevus ny where interstate 88 now runs well over 100 miles inland today. and not just a few.lots mostly like the horseshoe crab but smaller 

how about when one looks at a ocean chart of where the hudson river canyon lays 100 miles off shore, can one imagine the husdon dumping that far out into a deep canyon? 

old earth has a lot of hidden history we in our lifetimes may never know about


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## niteshft (Nov 17, 2018)

Research shows that the past warming periods matched higher rates of CO2 in the atmosphere. The scary thing is, the CO2 levels now are much greater than any previous times in the past. It takes time for the earth to heat up but findings are showing that it's happening faster than scientists have predicted it would. We all need to do what's right and lower our carbon footprint now!


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I don't have much faith in human survival long term. We are too STUPID and too stubborn ( money ) to change in time . Hope that Mother Earth throws us off like a dog shakes off fleas. The Earth will heal by itself in time. There is evidence that there has been several human extinctions in the Earth's history.

Nature strives for perfection and humans ain't it. We may be at the top of the food chain but are like a cancer devouring our own host body.


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## LoganH (Oct 27, 2018)

I listened to the climate experts as I was starting my career, that's when I was looking for a sustaining wood lot.


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

GreenMtnMan said:


> I have no idea whether or not manmade global climate warming change is occurring. I am dubious about the notion that the solution has to be that I pay more taxes and give up more freedom.


The frustrating thing to me is that we're not doing things that don't result in paying more taxes or giving up more freedom either. 

Instead, we're allowing other countries to leapfrog over us in solar and wind technologies, refusing to invest in infrastructure, eliminating tax incentives for renewable energy, and reversing already existing EPA requirements.


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

Cutter, I know where your snow is - it's all over our property! 
Snowing as I type this + about a meter (sorry, 3 feet for our southern neighbors) still on the ground. The melt/freeze cycle since December made it too heavy to keep up with my Ariens - perfect excuse to buy a used sub-compact tractor with a loader and blade :wink2:
Maybe a warming Saskatchewan will slow down the exodus of retiring farmers to BC. :grin:
Just kidding, enjoy it while you can. 

Al ccasion14:


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

> There is no doubt the global climate is changing at an incredible rate and that human activity is largely to blame.


Former is accepted, except that "incredible" is a relative term, the latter is not proven. There is a lot of research out there that disputes what the left and the media are preaching. But even if this was the case, the world's biggest polluters are China & India, and you never hear or see climate zealots whining about their emissions or protesting in Beijing. Of course we all know what happens to protesters in China. BTW, our carbon emissions were down last year due to an increase in natural gas power generation brought on by (gasp!!!) fracking. 



You would also think that if we were to make more products in the US (with our stricter environmental laws) this would be a good thing. However, that doesn't seem to satisfy these people either. 



Bottom line - I'm not going to simply buy into all this and the associated taxes and loss of freedom that it entails.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I bought that Ariens 824 early in the season and if it NEVER snows and I never have to use it it will be just fine with me. 
That being said the earth goes through many heating/cooling periods. I'm not going to get overly excited.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

Cutter said:


> I have used my Ariens 4 times this year, in November.....and 2 of those didn't really require the use of a snowblower....I did it just for fun. Haven't used my blower since early December, and we are already close to March. I have always had my doubts about the whole "Global warming" thing, but after this winter in Saskatchewan,which typically bogs people and vehicles down with snowstorms, I do have to wonder. Maintenance should be simple this year, pull the pan, change the oil, wax her up, and put her away. :surprise::smile2::smile_big::grin:


one easy thing we can all do is not do things like snow blow for "fun". i understand the urge, but every time we fire up the blowers they are emitting pollutants. i have had about four snow events so far this winter, and i used the blower for one. the others i shoveled, even though i could have used the blower. 

small changes done by many does have an impact.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Rwh - I am sorry but if I have a heart attack while shoveling, the improved environment will do me no good. I do my share to help the environment but I will not sacrafice my health for it. Sorry !


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## Tony P. (Jan 9, 2017)

Clutch Cargo said:


> Former is accepted, except that "incredible" is a relative term, the latter is not proven. There is a lot of research out there that disputes what the left and the media are preaching. But even if this was the case, the world's biggest polluters are China & India, and you never hear or see climate zealots whining about their emissions or protesting in Beijing. Of course we all know what happens to protesters in China. BTW, our carbon emissions were down last year due to an increase in natural gas power generation brought on by (gasp!!!) fracking.
> 
> You would also think that if we were to make more products in the US (with our stricter environmental laws) this would be a good thing. However, that doesn't seem to satisfy these people either.
> 
> Bottom line - I'm not going to simply buy into all this and the associated taxes and loss of freedom that it entails.


 I can parrot your comments by saying, "there is a lot of research out there that disputes what the _right_ and the _petroleum industry_ are preaching" but what good does it do.

And it's a sad state of affairs when American policy becomes taking a back seat to China and India. You're correct, though; that's where we are.


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## e.fisher26 (Nov 6, 2016)

I don’t know why this posted twice


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

Here in Buffalo, New York, I haven't used my Ariens 924 at all. The few snow falls we've had I took care of with my Toro - 3650. Local Meteorologist says global warming will keep Lake Erie from freezing over and thus keeping the possibility of Lake Effect snow storms available for our area well into March/April in the future.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

I have read that the earth's atmosphere in relative size terms to the earth is equivalent to that thin skin you find underneath the shell of an egg...not the shell...the skin.

People generally have no conception of how small the earth and indeed it's atmosphere actually is...for all intents and purposes they think it's limitless. I've sailed to the artic..you'd be surprised how fast you get there on a very slow boat ....and how quickly you go from 8-9 hours of darkness a night to 24 hours of sunlight once there..it gives you a visceral sense of how small the globe actually is.

Of course some people think the world is flat ..and there's no reaching them.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

Clutch Cargo said:


> Former is accepted, except that "incredible" is a relative term, the latter is not proven. *There is a lot of research out there that disputes what the left and the media are preaching*. But even if this was the case, the world's biggest polluters are China & India, and you never hear or see climate zealots whining about their emissions or protesting in Beijing. Of course we all know what happens to protesters in China. BTW, our carbon emissions were down last year due to an increase in natural gas power generation brought on by (gasp!!!) fracking.
> 
> You would also think that if we were to make more products in the US (with our stricter environmental laws) this would be a good thing. However, that doesn't seem to satisfy these people either.
> 
> Bottom line - I'm not going to simply buy into all this and the associated taxes and loss of freedom that it entails.


Respectfully...You're simply parrotting a hackneyed right wing political talking point/slur re: the "left and the media". The research proving accelerated climate change is produced by scientists and the vast majority of scientists at that...science is apolitical...it's neither left nor right. Also: there is no credible research proving the opposite...you're repeating a falsehood. I won't bother addressing the rest of the Fox News screed.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

niteshft said:


> We all need to do what's right and lower our carbon footprint now!


BUY A SHOVEL and forever disable the engine of your blower. 

Removing a highly polluting machine from circulation is what reducing the footprint is all about, right?

If you've got a 2-stroke, old tec flatty and/or a one car driveway that can be shoveled lets not pretend to have a concern for the environment 

(Im not directing this at you personally niteshift)

.


.


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## SayItAintSnow (Dec 15, 2017)

It's totally unscientific to suggest that during a winter where there is little snowfall in your area, is anything more than a testament of the long understood and well established variabilities of weather, and not leap to the conclusion that it is proof of man made climate change.

*Ask yourself:* If next year, you go back to getting closer to average snowfalls again, or even an above average snowfall, would that lead you to conclude the _opposite_, i.e. that this proves there is no such thing as man made global warming? Doubtful.....

There are people this winter who have already received snowfalls well above average. For example, Colorado which is already well over their yearly average, and winter isn't over yet.

If the people of Colorado were to follow the same line of reasoning as the people seeing so little snowfall this winter, they would therefore have to conclude there is reason to doubt the theory of global warming.

I would also remind the folks, that claim that there is _no scientific research_ to the contrary of the theory of anthropogenic global warming, that there were nearly 450 scientific studies published just in 2019 alone, that refute the idea that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are the "driving force" of our climate. 
.
.


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## rwh963 (Nov 21, 2019)

should this be moved to the general discussion category?


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## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

orangputeh said:


> I don't have much faith in human survival long term. We are too STUPID and too stubborn ( money ) to change in time . Hope that Mother Earth throws us off like a dog shakes off fleas. The Earth will heal by itself in time. There is evidence that there has been several human extinctions in the Earth's history.
> 
> Nature strives for perfection and humans ain't it. We may be at the top of the food chain but are like a cancer devouring our own host body.


Tell us what's really on your mind :wink2:


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## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

Cutter said:


> I have used my Ariens 4 times this year, in November.....and 2 of those didn't really require the use of a snowblower....I did it just for fun. Haven't used my blower since early December, and we are already close to March. I have always had my doubts about the whole "Global warming" thing, but after this winter in Saskatchewan,which typically bogs people and vehicles down with snowstorms, I do have to wonder. Maintenance should be simple this year, pull the pan, change the oil, wax her up, and put her away. :surprise::smile2::smile_big::grin:


Simply put, this sucks! I've used my 420cc snowblower once in the last 2 snow seasons, back in Nov 2018 and that was only 6"s with maybe 10-12" slop at EOD, the machine was yawning not working. This season we're lucky to have gotten 10"s total, been mostly rain.


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## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

Cutter said:


> Ok, so I do agree with you,BUT, where my wife comes from, which is a drive 4.5 hours in length to the North of where we are, they have been finding fossils, and entire intact skeletal remains of Prehistoric Life, mainly Aquatic Life as in Crocodiles, and such.Look up "Big Bert" which is an ancient Crocodile, and you will find it came from an embankment near Carrot River, Saskatchewan. This entire area was a sea of massive proportions, and is now a dry land formation. What I am trying to say is that the earth has been in a constant state of change , for centuries . Up and down. So why are we so concerned now?:surprise::wink2::smile2:


Because we're a species with self awareness and worry about our children and grandchildren.

Now if one was to ask if some of us had a conscience, that would be debatable.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I used to think in the beginning that we are just in a warmer Earth cycle but the evidence is showing otherwise. Granted our records only go so far so it is not a reliable indicator.

but the recent 100 year trend is disturbing.....

it's not just climate change. it's the plastic pollution , the smog from third world countries and China, the cutting down of the rainforests in the Amazon and a lot more.

people better wake the F up.


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## Stability (Nov 18, 2014)

tdipaul said:


> BUY A SHOVEL and forever disable the engine of your blower.
> 
> Removing a highly polluting machine from circulation is what reducing the footprint is all about, right?
> 
> ...


Used a shovel till I was 44 yrs old, then my body said "listen, it's time to get a blower"!


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

niteshft said:


> Research shows that the past warming periods matched higher rates of CO2 in the atmosphere. The scary thing is, the CO2 levels now are much greater than any previous times in the past. It takes time for the earth to heat up but findings are showing that it's happening faster than scientists have predicted it would. We all need to do what's right and lower our carbon footprint now!


Ummm... You might want to read this: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/04/dr-vincent-gray-on-historical-carbon-dioxide-levels/


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## GustoGuy (Nov 19, 2012)

tabora said:


> Ummm... You might want to read this: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/06/04/dr-vincent-gray-on-historical-carbon-dioxide-levels/


Watts Up With That?
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Watts Up With That?


November 17, 2006
Watts Up With That? (WUWT) is a blog[1] promoting climate change denial[7] that was created by Anthony Watts in 2006.[2][3] 
The blog predominantly discusses climate issues with a focus on anthropogenic climate change, generally accommodating beliefs that are in opposition to the scientific consensus on climate change. Contributors include Christopher Monckton and Fred Singer as guest authors.[8] In November 2009, the blog was one of the first websites to publish emails and documents from the Climatic Research Unit controversy, and a driving force behind its coverage.[8] 
In the early months of 2010, it was reported the site might be "the most read climate blog in the world,"[9] and in 2013 Michael E. Mann referred to it as the leading climate change denial blog.


I have a Chemistry degree in addition to my Pharmacy degree. I was originally studying to be a general science teacher before I decided to become a pharmacist. There are 7 billion humans living on the earth and we are not as puny and insignificant as some people would like you to believe. Scientists have been looking at climate change since the 1980s and some interesting changes are occurring to the glaciers in Glacier National Park. In 1913 there were an estimated 125 to 150 glaciers at that time and right now there are only 25 receding glaciers left in the park with most of the glaciers disappearing after the 1970s. Ice core samples from Antarctica show that global CO2 level prior to 1820 was roughly at 280ppm with slight variations of usually less than 10ppm on average for thousands of years and ice core samples have been taken have gone back as far 750,000 years. Since the 1950s the global CO2 levels have been increasing by about 1ppm and by the 1980s this increased to about 1.3ppm on average. Also, scientist have looked at seafloor sediments as well which study carbon isotopes within the calcium carbonate deposits and accurate levels of CO2 based upon isotope ratios shows that last time CO2 was this high in the atmosphere was 5.3 to 2.6 million years ago and sea levels were on average 50 feet higher than they currently are right now. In fact if we continue to add CO2 to the atmosphere at the current rates we will hit 500ppm within 30 years. Compound this with the loss of sea ice which will lower the albedo of the northern polar regions and this could lead to a rapid temperature increase of up to 2 degrees Celcius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit). This could have devastating effects on our coastal areas with rapid glaciation melt in Greenland and Antarctica could raise sea levels anywhere from 3 to 7 feet by 2100 which will displace hundreds of millions of people and change our coastal areas significantly. Hower sea level rise will continue to be affected by the continuing melting land-based glaciers of ice and if all the land base ice melted this could theoretically raise sea levels by up to 200 feet. I believe what the 97% of scientists agree on that climate change is occurring and it is being affected by the continuation of ever-rising human emissions of greenhouse gases.


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## Nanook12 (Nov 26, 2019)

Hate to throw a wrench into your carbon scenario. We in the Northern Interior of Alaska just went through the fourth longest cold snap on record!
We are back in another cold spell as we speak. The pack ice has been increasing since the late nineties in the North. The pack ice has been increasing in the South. What happens when you discover that the Sun is putting out less heat? What do you figure caused the last Ice Age?


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## notabiker (Dec 14, 2018)

Well if the Earth warms up and all the ice caps melt then I guess I better get a solar powered jet ski!! 



Side note: I do kind of like the movie "Waterworld" soooo...


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## Lunta (Dec 14, 2017)

I'll try to keep my post to facts only. Opinions belong in journalists' copy or reality programmes about wedding dresses. Real people should work on real facts only. Especially on a such a serious subject.

A year or two without snow in your back yard doesn't validate the "Global Warming" argument either way. Even 100 years is the blink of an eye in terms of the world's climate history.
e.g. Central Finland is having it's warmest winter for 100 years. Meanwhile Northern Finland has near record amounts of snow (source: https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/...ern_finland_brings_avalanche_warning/11223578)
What does that prove about climate change? Takeaway: It proves practically nothing. Let's move on.

When I was at school, all talk was about an impending ice age. Yes it's true, the world had been cooling since WW2, but we now know the "experts" got it wrong, when making climate assumptions based on "blink of an eye" timescales. Takeaway: Climate experts can get it very wrong.

There is not enough accurate climate data to deliver 100% facts. Even 150 years ago, there were relatively few monitoring stations around the world. There is data available, e.g. from analysis of drilled-out sediment samples. 
But even the climate-change experts have to admit that this data is very much open to interpretion, and any conclusions rely on a number of assumptions. 

Whatever we do today to mitigate perceived “human-caused climate change”, we will never know in the future whether our efforts made any difference whatsoever. This is because the margins of error within any climate models are very very wide.


The "politics":
Swift population growth has only made any “human-caused climate change” worse than it would have been with a smaller population. That's a fact, but what can realistically be done with that information? 
Can someone propose restricting the rights of people to become parents? Of coure not, that would be politically unacceptable, and actually many/most Western governments want people to have more kids to balance the demographic trough with more young tax-payers. 
But hang on, where exactly are government priorities? Are they willing to encourage more taxpayers being born, but at the expense of creating more future planet polluters? 
So "Cimate Change" ends up becoming entwined in the politics. No longer can you trust what you're being told, because someone, somewhere has a political agenda, and that's going to affect the information you receive.


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## Lunta (Dec 14, 2017)

Cutter said:


> What I am trying to say is that the earth has been in a constant state of change , for 4 billion years.



Fixed that for you


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## Lunta (Dec 14, 2017)

orangputeh said:


> I don't have much faith in human survival long term. We are too STUPID and too stubborn ( money ) to change in time .



Totally agree.


Last year I sat chatting over coffee with a guy I know: He was telling me how he planned to vote Green in the next parliamentary election, as he was very concerned about climate change. The subject then changes to his plans for a second international holiday that year. I asked how the "unnecessary" flights balanced out against his concerns for the climate. 

Reply: Well I think I'm like most people, I want to save the planet, but only if it doesn't inconveniece my own lifestyle.


A very honest personal opinion. And one that it probably quite common. You tuned in, Leonardo? :devil:


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

I don't doubt global warming, because all of the scientific means and measurements indicate that the earth is getting warmer, sea level is rising, the polar ice caps are shrinking, carbon levels are rising, etc. I don't think we can judge 'warming' on a year-to-year basis, because there are and have been significant deviations from what we would call a 'normal' or 'typical' winter over the years (decades). So, a few deviations does not necessarily mean a trend.



We have received very little snow in the northeast this winter, but I also remember winters of 50 years ago that struggled to get snow . . . mostly rain. I also remember a few winters ago when we got very little snow December - February, then in March we got 2 storms of about 20" each !!!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

This planet we live on called "earth" has been around for like 4.54 billion years ….

Humans as we know, lived on earth for 200,000 years. Even earliest "****" species were what, 2-2.5 million years. Humans are a speck of time on this planet in relative terms.

This planet has been covered in ice, I am sure at one point a molten mass, and everything in between. Continents have broke apart and moved around this planet.

I have a feeling this planet will continue to transition itself throughout the many millions of years to come, or until the big asteroid comes and gives it a quicker change.

Put in prospective, all our recent generations are not even a spec of time …. and certain not to last for eternity.

With all that being said, lets all keep our snow blowers ready just in case ….


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Good thread everyone!
But it is now necessary to invoke Godwin's law.
Once the name Hitler comes up, it's time to close the thread:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


Thread closed.

thanks,
Scot


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