# Rusted sheer pin



## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Hi

New to the TORO Forum, but not snowblowers. I have been an Ariens-man, but what I felt was a good price, made me cross over to the dark-side, and I recently went Red.

A week+ ago, purchased a PowerMax 826 and I liked it, and then found a better deal on a PowerMax 1028 with plans to unload the 826. Both are about 10 years old beased upon Model/Serial Number.

I was going through the 1028 before putting it into service, and one of the auger sheer pins seems to be rusted in place. I say sheer pin, but is it really a Grade 5 "bolt" ? I have been trying to loosen it with PB Blaster, and a clamp/large socket to ease it out, but I have not been successful. I am thinking about drilling it out, but not sure if I can do that with a standard HSS 1/4 drill bit - can I - or what method is better ? I suspect that if I can remove it, the auger will be rusted onto the shaft. So, if this is not really a sheer pin, am I wasting my time worrying about removing it, or should I continue to work on it ? I plan to bring this up to a lake-home, so I really don't want to get stranded with a broken gear case on a snowblower up there ?

THX


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## Freezn (Mar 1, 2014)

Get yourself a 1/8" reverse rotating hardened drill bit. Heat the broken bolt for 5-10 mins with Propane or better yet MAP gas. Then using a nail punch, hit the center of the bolt 4-5 times. Reheat another 2-3 mins and repeat the process with the center punch and hammer. Then take your reverse drill bit, SET YOUR DRILL FOR COUTNER CLOCKWISE ROTATION and drill out the center of the broken bolt. As you start to drill into the broken bolt, chances are pretty good the bolt will break free since you are drilling counter clockwise which is in essence backing the bolt out. I like to drill about 1/3 of the way into bolt, heat it again, Center punch it again, then drill some more. Shear bolts are very soft, so the bolt will either back out enough where you can grab it with Vice-Grips or you can keep drilling with progressively larger bits and drill out the broken bolt. Sometimes the bolt backs right out of the treads on the drill bit, other times I have to keep drilling until the bolt basically disintegrates and chase the thread with a tap. Either way, it's really not as scary as it sounds. Give it a shot.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Since it bolt/sheer pin in not threaded into the shaft, it had a not-threaded portion, why would I need to use a reverse hardened drill bit ? 

Also, is this really a sheer pin, or is my gear case a tough-style that TORO brags about and will "never" fail ?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

RIT333 said:


> Since it bolt/sheer pin in not threaded into the shaft, it had a not-threaded portion, why would I need to use a reverse hardened drill bit ?
> 
> Also, is this really a sheer pin, or is my gear case a tough-style that TORO brags about and will "never" fail ?


 IT is a grade 5 bolt. TORO does not use BLOODY SHEER PINS.


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## Bob E (Jun 9, 2014)

Have you been trying to turn the bolt or just pressing on it?
Sometimes the threads can still bite in a non threaded hole.


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## Normex (Feb 21, 2014)

Pod I would definitively remove the bolt and loosened the auger shaft as although Toro makes hardened gears for the gear case, it is not without fail. I don't know how you plan to loosen the auger shaft but you will need probably a torch to heat the length, one method having good success is heating the auger tube on all its length then when good and hot pour cold water over it then try to move it with the shaft in a vice and you will see it will move ever so slightly and if you continue with the moving or banging it will move some more until free. Good Luck


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

Careful using a centre punch. Hit enough times, the point will expand the shaft, and make it more difficult to drive out. Use a flat end punch, or a bolt the same size or a little smaller diameter. Good luck.
Sid


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bob E said:


> Have you been trying to turn the bolt or just pressing on it?
> Sometimes the threads can still bite in a non threaded hole.



Both - when I try to turn it, I can sense that it is ready to break. One end turns a little and the other end doesn't.

I'm probably going to button it back up with a frozen bolt/auger shaft - unfortunately. Too much snow coming the weekend. I'll use my Ariens.


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## Bob E (Jun 9, 2014)

Keep spraying it down with PB Blast regularly, things will go smoother when you try again. 
Try taping the other end with a hammer while turning.
A little bit of heat even from just a hand held propane plumbers torch can go a long way. 
Drilling it will be frustrating, the drill bit will want to walk off of the harder bolt into the softer auger. And with the junk they call drill bits these days you'll likely want to buy a few to be sure to make it through.
Find a guy who is proficient with an oxyacetylene torch and offer beer.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Been there and done that. Yes ,leave it alone if you don't have the time to deal with any unforeseen events. It is strictly a maintenance item right now. Yes you can break the grade 5 bolt. it is only a 5/16 inch bolt. 

It is my opinion and that of many others that using a conventional bolt, of any grade, instead of a functional shear pin is asking for trouble. Toro is a bit arrogant if they think their auger gears can take that shock of a hard jamb. The Toro gears may be tougher than lets say an MTD but they still break. Mine did. 

I too had a stubborn bolt on the auger drum. I found that turning the bolt back and forth ( go CW some amount and then CCW about the same amount for 4-5 cycles), then hammer it a bit...will eventually work. Alternate back and forth from rotating and then hammering. You are breaking up rust that has caused an interference fit. Plenty of PB Blaster, Kroil or similar. It can be a slow process and you need to be patient. Try not to break the head off so don't force the turning. When you hit a lot of resistance change directions. 

I concur with those who recommend using heat. I did not but it is a good idea and may cut your time significantly. Be careful as some penetrating oils will flash at a relatively low temperature. I have seen Kroil flash.

Also, I am surprised no one suggested trying an air hammer. If you have access to an air compressor and you can beg borrow or steal an air hammer with a flat punch chisel it may do it. Not always the best method as it does put a shock on the bearings as long as it is still mounted in the bucket.

One way or another .....You will get it out.

Once you are past this and if you can not get the drum free from the shaft, repost. It was not pretty but I can tell you what I did.

Good Luck.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Good idea on the air chisel, hadn't thought of that. I might only have a one round "bit" that is too big, but the vibration may be good to loosen some of the rust.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

OK, I got the bolt out, and now I am trying to remove the augers. One side slid off like butter, and the other had had PB blaster dripping through it for almost a week, and sit is still not budging. I may be able to lean on someone for his acetylene torches, or will the PB Blaster eventually work ? I am using a pipe to slide along the inner shaft and pounding on the auger. Pipe wrenches seemed futile. Also, I removed the gear box. Since there is/was no gasket, what is the best way to re-seal it when re-installing it ?

Thanks !

Rit


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

RIT333 said:


> OK, I got the bolt out, and now I am trying to remove the augers. One side slid off like butter, and the other had had PB blaster dripping through it for almost a week, and sit is still not budging. I may be able to lean on someone for his acetylene torches, or will the PB Blaster eventually work ? I am using a pipe to slide along the inner shaft and pounding on the auger. Pipe wrenches seemed futile. Also, I removed the gear box. Since there is/was no gasket, what is the best way to re-seal it when re-installing it ?
> 
> Thanks !
> 
> Rit


 My 824 has a gasket on the auger gear box. My guess is the last person to take it apart did not get a new one and used an automotive gasket maker like a Permatex product.

I removed my stubborn auger by hanging the auger with a pipe though it. I supported the pipe with large blocks of wood. I hit the end of the shaft with a 3 lb hammer on a block of wood. Try to rotate it back and forth between every several hits. .......if you can. It may be had since you took the gear box off.

Heat would be a good idea.

Good luck.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

got it off this afternoon thanks to a friend's torch, and some pipes that acted as sleeves for my sledge. It wasn't easy, but I'm anal about doing it right. Just didn't want to risk losing a gearbox.


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

Another way would be to use it less the bolt in the hole and let the normal snowblower use get it loose. Have heard this done before.


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## Mac (Jan 26, 2015)

Thanks all3939 ,Terrific tip! I have a stuck auger and will try that.


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## greatwhitebuffalo (Feb 11, 2014)

RIT333 said:


> Hi
> 
> New to the TORO Forum, but not snowblowers. I have been an Ariens-man, but what I felt was a good price, made me cross over to the dark-side, and I recently went Red.
> 
> ...


 I've had a few seized broken off shear pins in old vintage machines I obtained. some with both sides broken off and just the middle pin still in the hole. I use a special very long, tapered drift (about 2 feet long) and a my very biggest BMFH, and pound those suckers out. 
sometimes to make an omelet, you have to break a couple eggs...\
now go out and BREAK THAT DARN OMELET...


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

So, is the general consensus that the gear box should have a gasket ? I do know that the previous owner had the gear box opened up for a repair, and it could have been re-sealed without a gasket. However, it did spil open easily, and it did not leak fluid for the 2 days that I owned it before dismantling it to repaint the auger/bucket etc. and to unseize the auger on the shaft.

I can either make/buy a gasket if needed, but there is not one shown in the parts diagrams.

Thanks !


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

A tip I intend to take from *PS93* is to use stainless steel bolts in my Toro's augers to try and prevent this kind of problem. With a good coat of anti-seize on the threads.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

RIT333 said:


> So, is the general consensus that the gear box should have a gasket ? I do know that the previous owner had the gear box opened up for a repair, and it could have been re-sealed without a gasket. However, it did spil open easily, and it did not leak fluid for the 2 days that I owned it before dismantling it to repaint the auger/bucket etc. and to unseize the auger on the shaft.
> 
> I can either make/buy a gasket if needed, but there is not one shown in the parts diagrams.
> 
> Thanks !


 The auger gear box gaskets are not expensive and you could also make your own gasket from a cereal box. Again you could just try a thin film of a gasket maker. 

What kind of lubrication was in there? What are you planning to use?
Toro has spec'ed either a NLGI 00 low temp grease or 80w-90 gear oil in the auger gear boxes.

If you are using the 00 grease you may very well be able to get away with out a gasket.


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## Loco-diablo (Feb 12, 2015)

Don't over think it too much. My 6 year old ariens ahd a stuck broken shear bolt. I pounded the **** out of it to no avail. I just grabbed my 20 year old no name hand drill and a couple of old bits. Lubed with wd40 as I was drilling. Gradually increased bit size. The broken shear bolt eventually fell out. It was a PITA, but 30 min later, new pin was in and I was ready to go!


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Loco-diablo said:


> Don't over think it too much. My 6 year old ariens ahd a stuck broken shear bolt. I pounded the **** out of it to no avail. I just grabbed my 20 year old no name hand drill and a couple of old bits. Lubed with wd40 as I was drilling. Gradually increased bit size. The broken shear bolt eventually fell out. It was a PITA, but 30 min later, new pin was in and I was ready to go!


Sorry, what can I say, I am en engineer ! But, I have the auger off of the shaft, and am re-assembling. Again, over-thinking, but I was thinking of installing zerk fittings on the shaft so that I would have to bother a friend to get the auger off next time, or will no-seize be sufficient on the shaft ?

I have sealed the gear box with Permatex #2 gasket stuff, and am currently giving it a bench test with the 80/90 gear lube that is recommended. If it leaks, then I really like the cereal box gasket - great idea. This gear box, according to the parts manual and service boot, DOES NOT use a gasket, though.

Thanks again for all of the tips. BTW, I have a set of Chinese Heated Hand Grips ($5) that I plan to install. I put them on my Ariens, and they are awesome - got them on EBay.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

IMHO anti-seize is never a good choice where the parts you're trying to protect aren't a fairly close tolerance. Anti-seize can dry up and get washed and or wore off.

The grease zerks are the way to go and it's how some of the manufacturers have done it.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

OK, ready to button it back up, and call it a day- or a week. Added zerks to the auger and impeller - seems like it will be fine.

Next step was to re-assemble the gear box. And now the "fun" begins...

Recall that this is a '04 PowerMax 1028 and the gear box is a 106-7254, and it does NOT come with nor have available a gasket and it doesn't even show one in the parts explosion. The recommended lube is 80/90W.

First try, I sealed the gear box case with Permatex 2 and re-assembled. Let it set for 12 hours and added the lube, and when the lube went in, it is also came out - no good.

Next, made a gasket out of a manilla folder, and put Permatex 2 on both sides of the "gasket", and re-assembled Let it set for 24 hours, added the lube, and it also came out - maybe even faster ???

So, now it time for the experts...

What you you do for the next time to make it be the last time ? Silicone ? I worked for GE, so it may help their stock price. Toro says to use Hylomar, but I don't even know what it is, nor where to even buy it.

Thanks for any and all suggestions. I really wish I could use good old wheel bearing grease - but seems like that is taboo.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

Just use the 00 grease. It won't run out and will be good. Still try to seal it up as best you can though to keep the water out.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

The "00" grease should work. Orielly auto parts can order it. P/N 7-06612
I searched part stores for Hylomar and it doesn't look like it's available anymore.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

I can't find any reference to the Hylomar on the Permatex Website. I'll bet they discontinued it, because Toro lists it as discontinued.

Permatex has a special RTV that is supposed to be impermeable to gear oil. They calim that gear oil will break down silicone, but I think that it just to sell another product !


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

I am surprised the Permatex 2 did not work as it is recommended for oil pans. Just wondering if the product is old and maybe needed more time to cure.?

Out of curiosity I went on their web site and they now have two gasket maker options specific to sealing gear oils. One can be used almost immediately.

Product Selector

Here is the tech data sheet on Hylomar

http://www.permatex.com/documents/TDS/automotive/38411.pdf

It clearly says :
*
"This product is a gasket dressing. It does not replace, but​ it does complement, the locking and sealing function of​ mechanical gaskets in a pre-designed sealing system."

So it seems odd that there is no gasket and Toro recommends using this.


*Do you have a torque spec on the housing bolts.? If you did not pull them in evenly and equally that could be an issue.

If you do go with the 00 grease you can also get it at Tractor Supply in the Super S brand and also on line, Ebay etc. in the Stens or Oregon Brand Plenty of options.

RIT, I later see you know some of this as you type faster than I. Good Luck


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

My mistake, I've used Hylomar before but it's been a while. When I searched I couldn't find it either.
This would be the $12 replacement you were referring to.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> IMHO anti-seize is never a good choice where the parts you're trying to protect aren't a fairly close tolerance. Anti-seize can dry up and get washed and or wore off.
> 
> The grease zerks are the way to go and it's how some of the manufacturers have done it.





Kiss4aFrog said:


> My mistake, I've used Hylomar before but it's been a while. When I searched I couldn't find it either.
> This would be the $12 replacement you were referring to.


Just bought that from Amazon for $6. i spoke with Permatex cust. service and they said that this is the "only" was to go. Permatex #2 is only a supplement to a gasket, not a "gasket maker". Silicone or RTV is not good to use because the friction reducers in gear oil will destroy Silicone in due time - not sure how long, but I didn't want to find out.

I'll give a report on this on Sunday or Monday...hopefully !


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

RIT333 said:


> Just bought that from Amazon for $6. i spoke with Permatex cust. service and they said that this is the "only" was to go. Permatex #2 is only a supplement to a gasket, not a "gasket maker". Silicone or RTV is not good to use because the friction reducers in gear oil will destroy Silicone in due time - not sure how long, but I didn't want to find out.
> 
> I'll give a report on this on Sunday or Monday...hopefully !


 Good luck with the Gear Oil Permatex. 

I am surprised (maybe I should not be) customer service says it is only suggested as a gasket supplement. I have used it before alone with good results and I know I am far from alone.

I looked at the Permatex #2 tech data sheet and it says it is excellent for metal to metal assemblies.

This is right out of that document.

* PRODUCT BENEFITS​* •​​​​Improves reliability​
 •​​​​Extends gasket life​
 •​​​​Stops leakage​
 •​​​​Excellent for metal to metal assemblies​
 •​​​​Slow drying​
 • Flexible setting

I think you are right about them trying to sell more products. I am sure something in the Gear oil may break it down but I bet it takes years. They now have a special gasket sealant for water pumps and thermostats. Unknowingly I have used their standard RTV gasket maker on my car several times and it has never leaked. Even though they say Prop. Glycol will break it down. Leave it to Marketing.

See if you can find a Torque spec from Toro. IIRC recall they published one for the 824.

I don't blame you for purchasing the now application specific product. After all you have been through I hope this puts it to rest. Good Luck.


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## Pathfinder13 (Feb 28, 2014)

RIT333 said:


> Just bought that from Amazon for $6. i spoke with Permatex cust. service and they said that this is the "only" was to go. Permatex #2 is only a supplement to a gasket, not a "gasket maker". Silicone or RTV is not good to use because the friction reducers in gear oil will destroy Silicone in due time - not sure how long, but I didn't want to find out.
> 
> I'll give a report on this on Sunday or Monday...hopefully !


I think you made the right choice here 

You should be good to go with that stuff. Backin'biz'ness 

.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

RIT333 said:


> Just bought that from Amazon for $6. i spoke with Permatex cust. service and they said that this is the "only" was to go. Permatex #2 is only a supplement to a gasket, not a "gasket maker". Silicone or RTV is not good to use because the friction reducers in gear oil will destroy Silicone in due time - not sure how long, but I didn't want to find out.
> 
> I'll give a report on this on Sunday or Monday...hopefully !


Sealed it with the Permatex RTV Gasket Maker for Gear Oil, and let it set for 30 hours and refilled it with 80/90W Gear Oil, and 1 hour later and no leaks ! Plan to let it sit overnight and then re-assemble the whole blower. I bout it about tow weeks ago, second hand, and only ran it for 1 minute in seller's gsarage, then I had to break it down to fit it in my SUV, and I went thru it all, and will finally get to put it thru its paces. We are getting about 4" of snow tomorrow night. Enough to give the blower a break-in - not much exercise, but a little test.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Success - runs perfect and throws snow very well.

One comment - maybe I am not used to it yet, but the multi-function chute control joy stick it a bit much. I have a hard time just changing direction without also changing the end of chute deflector. With my Ariens, there are two independent controls, so no change of interaction. Any comments on what I may be doing wrong, or does it just take practice ?

Thanks again for all that made suggections along the way. For $225, plus maybe another $20 in parts, I have a fantastic PowerMax 1028 that will be good for 20 more years.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

So where are all the photos ?? Like to see it now that it's workin'.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> So where are all the photos ?? Like to see it now that it's workin'.



Sorry, wife took a couple of videos - from inside the house - and they are not very good.


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