# Winterized Engines?



## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

I see that on a lot of the new snow blowers they brag about having "Winterized" Engines. Guaranteed to start and function down to -20F.

Are these engines the new 'Sliced Bread' or only hype? I am not usually out blowing snow at -20. I use Mobile1 synthetic oil, usually 0-30W or 5-20W and have no problems starting in the cold.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

It's mostly marketing speak. They seem to bolster buyer's confidence that they are looking at a quality machine. The only difference is that the winter engine doesn't have an air filter.

Honda and Yamaha never put these marketing labels on their snowblower. People know already. Just a waste of ink and materials.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

aa335 said:


> It's mostly marketing speak. They seem to bolster buyer's confidence that they are looking at a quality machine. The only difference is that the winter engine doesn't have an air filter.
> 
> Honda and Yamaha never put these marketing labels on their snowblower. People know already. Just a waste of ink and materials.


That figures. More for less.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

" winterized" engines have extra shrouding and are mostly air filter delete.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

The extra shrouding is just to help get warm air to the intake system to help prevent carburetor icing. That is why they don't use an air filter assembly because it could freeze the filter element. plus the engine isn't around much dust due to it being operated in snow conditions.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

Old Tecumseh's also had a shroud around the pull start to keep out the snow/water. The hot air box also keeps the governor/throttle linkage from freezing up.

I wouldn't call this advertising BS.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

Makes sense. I could fabricate a warm air shroud if needed and a piece of good duct tape could seal up the recoil starter vents. I'd have a Winterized engine then.

We don't have E-85 gasoline in this State, thank goodness. I'm sure that causes a lot of folks engine problems.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

Doofy said:


> Makes sense. I could fabricate a warm air shroud if needed and a piece of good duct tape could seal up the recoil starter vents. I'd have a Winterized engine then.
> 
> We don't have E-85 gasoline in this State, thank goodness. I'm sure that causes a lot of folks engine problems.


The vents on the starter housing should not be sealed, that is where the fan draws air to blow it over the engine cooling fins. The area above the starter is often blocked to prevent snow access.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

Town said:


> The vents on the starter housing should not be sealed, that is where the fan draws air to blow it over the engine cooling fins. The area above the starter is often blocked to prevent snow access.


Thanks. Good point. I have never needed a "Winterized Engine" anyhow. I keep the maintenance up and fresh fuel. I finally trained myself to run all the gas out of the carburetor when finished unless more snow is in the forecast.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

_That is why they don't use an air filter assembly because it could freeze the filter element. _

No, its all the fluffy snow flying around that clogs a filter. Many marine engine had not filter. why? No dirt in Ocean Air to speak of. Same as when blowing snow, no dirt in the air, no filter needed.


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

E85 is virtually never an issue in a snowblower. The very common E10 E15 "ethanol added" pump gas you run in your car often finds its way into OPE. In the winter, and extra moisture that's found its way into that fuel presents an icing risk. The hot-air box for the carburetor reduces the risk.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Any snow blower shoud have a winterized engine. It seems redundant to claim a snow blower has a winterized engine unless it was repowered with a non winterized engine and the owner went through the touble of making it winter ready. At a minimum it would involve rejetting the carb for the colder air or adjusting the carb for colder air and changing the oil to a winter blend. Adding a heat box and shrouding would be good as well. Am I misunderstanding something?


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

I've only just begun my fascination with Snowblowers. I'm here to read and learn to be better prepared for when that snow comes. I've been complaining about my dislike of snow for over 50 years but now snowblowing has improved my outlook. I enjoy it.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

nwcove said:


> " winterized" engines have extra shrouding and are mostly air filter delete.


I actually "Summerized" the winter GX240 engine from my Honda HS80TAS to use it on my old Garden Way chipper/shredder. I left the air shrouds in place, but gutted the interior of the winter air box and modified the center mounting rod so that I could use the standard 3-season GX240 air filter inside the housing.


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## groomerz (Feb 7, 2015)

Winter engine also has a choke and a primer 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

It appears simple enough to Winterize your existing engine. Adding a primer is simple as is switching to winter weight oil. I have never seen an engine without a choke and I have never had problems with a carb icing up on small engines. Adding a simple shroud wouldn't be to difficult either.

My normal routine is keeping it in the garage during the winter but taking it outside to "chill" before actually blowing snow. I keep the snow blowing innards well coated with fluid film, woolwax, silicone spray or wd40. Never have plugging issues or rust.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Not all "Winterized" engines have richer fuel jetting in them.
Today's engines are jetted the same because of the emission requirements. A Summer engine is fuel "Jetted" the same as a Winter engine.
Some of the older engines may have been Jetted Richer, but that is not the case today.
"Winterized" today is basically the heat shrouding to protect the fuel components, linkage components and air intake system from "Icing" when in operation.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

Doofy said:


> It appears simple enough to Winterize your existing engine. Adding a primer is simple as is switching to winter weight oil. I have never seen an engine without a choke and I have never had problems with a carb icing up on small engines. Adding a simple shroud wouldn't be to difficult either.
> 
> My normal routine is keeping it in the garage during the winter but taking it outside to "chill" before actually blowing snow. I keep the snow blowing innards well coated with fluid film, woolwax, silicone spray or wd40. Never have plugging issues or rust.


Warm weather engines with primers usually do not have a choke. If they have a choke they usually don't have a primer.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

You cant add a Primer to every engine, the carburetors are different.
The only thing a Primer does is it Pressurizes the Fuel Bowl with air to force gasoline up through the main jet and dumps raw fuel into the venturi of the carburetor, a Primer does not pump fuel, just Air. Little hand held 2 cycle engines have a Primer that sucks fuel through the carburetor system, then it returns the excess to the fuel tank, but that type of engine is not used on a snow blower.
Not all engines have Primers with them. Honda engines don't.
Most but not all engines have chokes on their carburetors. The ones without the choke use a Primer to enrichen them for starting.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

My '94 Arctic Cat had always been a bear to start even with a primer and a choke. Finally, got fed up enough and just added one of those large primer squeeze bulbs. Problem solved.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Doofy said:


> My '94 Arctic Cat had always been a bear to start even with a primer and a choke. Finally, got fed up enough and just added one of those large primer squeeze bulbs. Problem solved.


That's what you had to do with them, the little fuel pump on the carb or engine depending how it was equipped from the factory didn't pump the fuel fast enough reach the carburetor to start them quickly enough.
I did that to a lot of older snowmobiles and boats to get the fuel right to the carbs for easier faster starting.
That was a common thing to do with snowmobiles was to add the inline pump from the tank to carburetor for faster starting.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

Long pull-ropes for a short fat guy is not good. It sure took the fun out of riding.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

Toro-8-2-4 said:


> Warm weather engines with primers usually do not have a choke. If they have a choke they usually don't have a primer.


Engines on handhelds such as leaf blowers and string trimmers have both primer and choke. The fuel is not gravity fed since the equipment can be operated in many orientations.


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## Dusty (Dec 13, 2018)

Doofy said:


> I see that on a lot of the new snow blowers they brag about having "Winterized" Engines. Guaranteed to start and function down to -20F.
> 
> Are these engines the new 'Sliced Bread' or only hype? I am not usually out blowing snow at -20. I use Mobile1 synthetic oil, usually 0-30W or 5-20W and have no problems starting in the cold.


Tecumseh-Lauson called their engines winterized engines as well, when they first started making them in 1960 on the first Ariens Sno-Thros. They said that and what they meant were, all the important components were guarded from liquid and moisture and that they were easier to start in cold temps and it was true, they were. Before them Briggs made a few failed attempts at shielding their summer engines and it didn't work very well and they were difficult to start. That basically remained the same for the Briggs sno-gard. They had no primers and were a lot harder to start in the cold, I know, I had a few and if they didn't have the electric starter they were bears to start, a lot of tough pulling or assist with starting fluid, if you could manage to get it into the throat of the carb with those shields in the way, if yoy had the electric starter it wasn't a problem, but a lot of them didn't. Where the Tecumseh's started with ease. Thats why Tecumseh's were for the majority for nearly half a century. It still means the same thing now. You can take an engine that was say on a rototiller and stick it on a snowblower, but its not winterized, it probably wont have a primer and its linkages arent shielded. Whereas especially now, most snowblowers come standard with winterized engines. They meet easy cold starting conditions and their important components are guarded from getting iced up and stopping them from working properly and they usually wont have any air filter. That makes it winterized, " winterized engine".


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

Thanks for that. Very informative.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

RC20 said:


> _That is why they don't use an air filter assembly because it could freeze the filter element. _
> 
> No, its all the fluffy snow flying around that clogs a filter. Many marine engine had not filter. why? No dirt in Ocean Air to speak of. Same as when blowing snow, no dirt in the air, no filter needed.


Believe it or not, there is very little if any fluffy snow that would get close to the air filter cartridge to freeze it.
There is humidity in the air which is very present when operating a snow blower. When that humid air contacts the air filter element that is when it would freeze because the air is moving faster which cools it down more than ambient air temperature and after the humidity and invisible microscopic pieces of ice in the air coat the filter element, it will clog it up so that it chokes it off because the air can't pass through it. 
You would see a thin coating of ice on the paper element sometimes, or it would look like a "Frost" coating on it. That isn't from the big flakes of snow, which air could pass through, it is from the invisible mist in the air that coats and freezes causing the clog. Most of the air filter covers have "Swirls" built into them to centrifugally dispose of the larger particles before they get close enough to the intake of the carburetor or are blocked by baffles to prevent the bigger fluffy flakes from entering that area.
About the only way you would get that much snow in there would be if you buried the whole machine in the snow when it was running. Most of the larger snow flakes actually melt when it gets that close to the engine because of the engine heat.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

Good explanation. The new Briggs & Stratton I bought and installed on my Tru-Test has an air filter and now I know I must keep an eye on it when blowing snow.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

> There is humidity in the air which is very present when operating a snow blower. When that humid air contacts the air filter element that is when it would freeze because the air is moving faster which cools it down more than ambient air temperature and after the humidity and invisible microscopic pieces of ice in the air coat the filter element, it will clog it up so that it chokes it off because the air can't pass through it.
> You would see a thin coating of ice on the paper element sometimes, or it would look like a "Frost" coating on it. That isn't from the big flakes of snow, which air could pass through, it is from the invisible mist in the air that coats and freezes causing the clog. Most of the air filter covers have "Swirls" built into them to centrifugally dispose of the larger particles before they get close enough to the intake of the carburetor or are blocked by baffles to prevent the bigger fluffy flakes from entering that area.


Nice theory. But I don't follow it. The movement of air through the filter would melt the ice crystals. The simplest example I can provide is this. When your windshield is frozen, what do you do? Yup you blow air on it. And even if the air is stone cold it will start to disperse the frost. So if your shrouds are in place and getting preheated air, there would not be ice lodging in your filter.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yeah, I have had my Predator 212 on my 10000 blower now for 8 or so years, and never, ever, had an issue with running it...  ... just sayin


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

deezlfan said:


> Nice theory. But I don't follow it. The movement of air through the filter would melt the ice crystals. The simplest example I can provide is this. When your windshield is frozen, what do you do? Yup you blow air on it. And even if the air is stone cold it will start to disperse the frost. So if your shrouds are in place and getting preheated air, there would not be ice lodging in your filter.


You should listen to @ST1100A here. He is 100% correct about why snowblowers don't have air filters.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

-13F outside this morning with the humidity hovering at 78%. There is icefog and all my security cameras look like Star Wars. You can see the quadrillions of ice crystals floating about in the air. Normally, the colder we get, the less the humidity. 

I will just be cognizant of the fact that there may be carburetor and or air filter iceing. No biggie, at least not enough to argue about.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

Mr Tabora knows what I am saying about air movement and freezing things on contact.
When air moves, it cools more. That happens in a carburetor venturi where air speeds up even more, and cools more, hence the name "Carburetor icing". That is where ice will build up at and break off, entering your engine and causing a stalling condition or a sputtering. Also you will have a "Frost" build-up that will block the little orifices that the fuel comes out of into the venturi of the carburetor, causing it to stall out or stumble.
Place your hand on a carburetor of a running engine and notice how cold it gets compared to the rest of the engine, that is not because of the fuel being cold, it is from the moving air that cools it.
If I turn my de-froster on before it was warm enough, my windshield would freeze up more and the inside would build up much more frost on it that I would have to scrape off because of the cooling effect of moving air.
If you blow air, super cool air on a windshield, it will create more frost until the air is heated enough through the pre-heat system, such as a de-froster in your car, then it would start to melt the frost or ice crystals.
The engine would choke itself out from the ice build-up before it got warm enough to melt the ice. You would have to let it sit for the ice to melt, then re-start it again, it would be cold, and the process would start all over again.
Most of the ice build up would be on the surface of the air filter element from the ice crystals before it makes its way into the carburetor venturi.
That is why they don't have air filter elements on snowblowers and why most of them have the pre-heating ducts/shrouds on them to help heat the intake air to prevent the icing.
That is the reason they call the enigne "Winterized", because it has the pre-heating ducts on them. But it takes time for the engine to warm up enough to start the ice to melt, so they do not install a filter so it wont die out before it warms enough, then the pre-heated air can do its job of preventing the ice from building up anymore.
There are a lot of good videos about what I am explaining that you can watch on the computer.
If you notice that is why most automobile engines have "Heat Risers" on the intake system, to send warmer air to the intake tract to help prevent frozen air filter elements and "Carburetor Icing".


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

I had a Sears craftsman blower with this giant cover. Engine was not winterized other than the air filter removed. Talk about overkill! 

This thing was unstoppable! EOD if you let go it would burrow through like a mole. Sadly during the divorce the ex piece of chit wife put it out at the curb. She did not like it because it was too scary.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

That big engine cover is what actually "Winterized" that engine. Imagine all the heat build-up under that cover, plus it worked as a shield from any snow.


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## scrappy (Dec 7, 2014)

ST1100A said:


> That big engine cover is what actually "Winterized" that engine. Imagine all the heat build-up under that cover, plus it worked as a shield from any snow.


It was like opening a large BBQ grill LOL


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

scrappy said:


> It was like opening a large BBQ grill LOL


Yes I can imagine, it sure looked like that, and I can imagine it got hot after a while.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

aa335 said:


> Engines on handhelds such as leaf blowers and string trimmers have both primer and choke. The fuel is not gravity fed since the equipment can be operated in many orientations.


Sure. I was thinnking 4 cycle engines. But on 2 cycles with a diamphram style carb, you are correct. They have a suction style primer system and a choke.


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## Toro-8-2-4 (Dec 28, 2013)

oneacer said:


> Yeah, I have had my Predator 212 on my 10000 blower now for 8 or so years, and never, ever, had an issue with running it...  ... just sayin


The same here. I remove the air filter and after a few years of being frustrated with snow building up on the linkages I made a shroud to protect them. It does act like a heat box as well. I will say It takes 7 or 8 pulls to start if it has not run in some time. A primer would be nice to have but not a necessity.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

You can pile your theory as high as you'd like. Venturi effect occurs in the carb not the air filter. Venturi effect happens whether or not you are running an air filter. 

If you were right, you would not be able to use a garden tractor to blow snow ithout removing the air filter. Show me one owners manual that recommends that.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

deezlfan said:


> You can pile your theory as high as you'd like. Venturi effect occurs in the carb not the air filter. Venturi effect happens whether or not you are running an air filter.
> If you were right, you would not be able to use a garden tractor to blow snow ithout removing the air filter. Show me one owners manual that recommends that.


Thou dost protest too much, methinks... 
Read here: Do Snow Blowers Have Air Filters?

Honda goes so far as to make a special winter air intake cover that PREVENTS you from adding an air filter. When I took the GX240 off my old Honda HS80, I had to spend an hour or so milling out all the innards of the cover so it would accept an air filter for summer use (alternative was buying a summer engine air filter cover). See pictures at post #14.

I have run my dad's old Kubota tractor in the winter for blowing, and it IS recommended that you remove the air filter. I didn't do so when he first had it and it choked from lack of air when the temps got down well into the negative digits Farenheit. Here's a picture of a Kubota B2650 air filter after snowblowing:









Read this post on Tractor-by-Net: 2015 T4.75 Cold weather kit (air filter)

FYI, boat engines don't have air filters, either, but that's because of the moist environment and lack of dust.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

I enjoy a little spirited debate. This is interesting either way. I just went out and checked the old Tru-Test B&S that I removed and sure nuff, it had shrouds and no air filter. I'll just keep an eye on my new engine and see if the air filter ices up.


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

_My normal routine is keeping it in the garage during the winter but taking it outside to "chill" before actually blowing snow. I keep the snow blowing innards well coated with fluid film, woolwax, silicone spray or wd40. Never have plugging issues or rust._

I used to store power equipment in the shop, gas leaks over the years and issues of fume get into the house even if you can't smell it (low level tocity) . 

So I built a shed and that is where the Yamaha lives as did the chainsaw. . Other than chute lube and oil changes, nada. Sure I keep an eye on things but very low maint

Reality less corrosion take place when equipment is out in the cold . Of course up here that is a slam dunk!


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## RC20 (Dec 4, 2019)

_FYI, boat engines don't have air filters, either, but that's because of the moist environment and lack of dust. _

Well the moist enlivenment kind of goes with water doesn't it? No dirt, no filter needed and even without the filter at times the intake sucks in snow and clogs up the carburetor (rarely but a deep light snow , yes) 

I worked in diesel engines up to 3000 hp in Marine application, no filters. Screen yes (to keep nuts and bolts and such out of the pistons!) 

Carb ice is due to a lot of factors. Aircraft will get it as high as 65 deg (humidity level involved). Basically the engine sheds so much heat that venturin affect combined with the other factors (they have a thing called carb heat you pull on to duct heat to the carbuaor as needed or during landing - you don't use it willy nilly as you loose power)

My step dad had a Pontiac with a tight cowled engine compartment, you had to be -20 before it would carb ice. But then it was guaranteed. 

My original 70s Broncos I had carb ice as high as 42 deg (going into Washington DC out of the Blue Ridge mountains). Very open engine compartment, no carb ice below 25 roughy, then it formed chrystals and not an issue.

Back in the day we added heat. Now with FI and its in winter fuel, not seen it in 20 years (and only becuase we had a carbuatred 73 Bronco) 

GE found that their 787 engine iced up in certain conditions, had to do with air flow, where heat was. Same sort of thing as carb ice. Fix was to cycle the vanes once in a while as needed. 

RR had a 777 ice up at -70 in the fuel heater, fine at cruise, decent good and power to final and no power. 

All has to due with what heat is where, super cooling air venturi or just air flow and a facinating subject. 

'


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

RC20 said:


> _My normal routine is keeping it in the garage during the winter but taking it outside to "chill" before actually blowing snow. I keep the snow blowing innards well coated with fluid film, woolwax, silicone spray or wd40. Never have plugging issues or rust._
> 
> I used to store power equipment in the shop, gas leaks over the years and issues of fume get into the house even if you can't smell it (low level tocity) .
> 
> ...


I keep the garage heat down to 45F degrees during the winter unless I am in there working. I am always wary of any gasoline leaks or smell. I'll admit that outdoor storage is ideal but trying to work with equipment at -20 or colder is insane.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

deezlfan said:


> You can pile your theory as high as you'd like. Venturi effect occurs in the carb not the air filter. Venturi effect happens whether or not you are running an air filter.
> 
> If you were right, you would not be able to use a garden tractor to blow snow ithout removing the air filter. Show me one owners manual that recommends that.


Actually the "Venturi Effect" happens in the air filter before it happens in the carburetor.
Think of every little hole that air passes through in the paper element or foam element of an air filter cartridge. Every little air hole acts like a "Venturi" that the air passes through, so the problem will first start there before it happens in the carburetor, and it will continue to build up until it does not allow enough air to flow through it, causing the engine to die out.
Most of your garden tractors engines are shielded and covered by some type of shelter/cover/hood and enclosed more to help prevent that from happening, but it still does happen, especially on certain Gravely rear engine riders with the engine exposed.
Gravely made special air filter covers with heat risers built in on some of the Kohler engines because if the icing problems, and some of them did recommend air filter element removal to prevent it from icing up.
Most snowblower engines are exposed to everything with no covers on them to keep any snow/ice dust away from the air intake system, that"s why they have the shrouds on them. Lawn tractors use the protection of the hood to help shield them and with the engine heat built up there, that also helps a bit.
An exposed engine on a snowblower will be effected a lot quicker than a lawn tractor engine would be so they don't have the problem as much as the snowblower would have.
You figure a snowblower is only used for snow removal, a lawn tractor is used for many other operations in the warmer weather besides snow removal. Plowing snow wont create the problem as quick as blowing the snow and sending tiny ice particles into the air surrounding the engine when in operation as a snowblower would.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

I can see that questioning this subject has raised a few peoples blood pressure. I've had my say so I'll move on. 

Perhaps I'll turn my attention to some of the other myths floating around this site, I'm thinking the widely expounded belief that every snow blower needs a impeller mod might be a good subject. That should be a spirited exchange given it's cult like following.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

I don't think you raised anybody's blood pressure, it was a good discussion that a lot of people were learning a lot about carburetor icing and how it happens by it being explained in detail so they could understand it.
The impeller mod was discussed in many other posts. Some use them, some don't, but it is a good topic to see what others think of them.
Personally, my equipment doesn't need them so I never used them, I'm sure they helped with other's.
Some make a big difference, some don't. It's always good to hear other people's experience with the extra work involved installing them and if they are worth it.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

I did the impeller mod on my 84 Tru-Test because it wasn't throwing very well or very far. I had everything on hand and didn't have to spend money to do it.

I have no real way or proof that the impeller upgrade helped because I found that the impeller drive belt was loose and out of adjustment. After tightening the slack adjuster and adding a jam nut it blows snow like a big dog. 

Everything is trial and error with me because there are no manuals available for any of my Snowblowers.


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## WIHD (Dec 15, 2019)

Doofy said:


> Thanks. Good point. I have never needed a "Winterized Engine" anyhow. I keep the maintenance up and fresh fuel. I finally trained myself to run all the gas out of the carburetor when finished unless more snow is in the forecast.


IMO (to me) thats a good way to dry out seals so they crack and fail easier and sooner. Better off treating fuel and keeping everything wet.
Also a good way to get deposits to dry/form on internal parts. Wont mention an increased likelihood of internal rust forming. My experience is w/ Harleys, but nonetheless....carries over here (to me). Good luck. Happy holidays.


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## WIHD (Dec 15, 2019)

> E85 is virtually never an issue in a snowblower.


If you've ever seen ethanol based fuel separate you'd spend the extra $0.10 per gallon and just buy non-ethanol fuel. Why take a needless risk for $0.10


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

WIHD said:


> IMO (to me) thats a good way to dry out seals so they crack and fail easier and sooner. Better off treating fuel and keeping everything wet.
> Also a good way to get deposits to dry/form on internal parts. Wont mention an increased likelihood of internal rust forming. My experience is w/ Harleys, but nonetheless....carries over here (to me). Good luck. Happy holidays.


That makes total sense too. Our gas doesn't degrade as fast as in a warm climate and none of it has any % of ethanol. I use Sta-Bil at the end of season and have no carburetor problems.


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## ST1100A (Feb 7, 2015)

E85 is 85% Ethanol 15% gasoline, I think it would be more than an issue, Wow!
I wish I could find Non Ethanol for only $0.10/Gal more than E10. It is $1.80/Gal more in my area.
Around here E10 is on average $2.40/Gal compared to $4.20/Gal for Non Ethanol 87 octane regular unleaded.


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## Gravelyman (Dec 6, 2021)

Doofy said:


> Thanks for that. Very informative.


Venturi icing has killed many people in small aircraft and caused a lot of other people to swear at their snowblowers. Here is why and it has nothing to do with snow melting on the controls: *when air passes through the narrows of a carburetor (the venturi) the temperature of the air drops about 30 degrees almost instantly (called "the venturi effect") and if you are operating on a cool damp day, the worst scenario about 20-50 degrees F and humidity above 50%, ice will form in the throat of the carb and act like a choke, and flood the daylights out of any engine and as that starts to happen the engine runs cooler and cooler and will soon die. *

I have been a small engine and car mechanic for 60 years but I never understood this problem well until I became a licensed pilot 45 years ago where flight training in carburated aircraft like older Cessnas taught the special controls to prevent it, and melt it out if necessary before you hit the ground. Fact is all older carburated American-Made autos have a built-in carb base heater using heat from the exhaust manifold or water jacket. On small engines, the Kohler singles (K series) had enough Iron mass in the block to prevent it, their twins need a little help from a special shroud, and the aluminum block Briggs and Tecumsehs simply HAVE TO HAVE an adequate carb heat retainer shroud that captures heat from the muffler or they will seldom run correctly above 20 degreesF in high humidity. 

As the years go by it is important to keep all the shroud components that came with the unit and also always replace the muffler with the specially designed ones that the snowblower. If you happen to purchase a used blower find a schematic that shows the original parts so you can spot a "will-fit" that does not do the job. All the best.


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

If it's -20° outside I ain't going out to blow any snow, no way.


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## Doofy (Dec 6, 2020)

Auger1 said:


> If it's -20° outside I ain't going out to blow any snow, no way.


-24F yesterday and +24F today with gusty winds to 35mph. I'm staying in the house too!


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

ST1100A said:


> Actually the "Venturi Effect" happens in the air filter before it happens in the carburetor.
> Think of every little hole that air passes through in the paper element or foam element of an air filter cartridge. Every little air hole acts like a "Venturi" that the air passes through, so the problem will first start there before it happens in the carburetor, and it will continue to build up until it does not allow enough air to flow through it, causing the engine to die out.


Which is why most snow blowers don't have air filters, in addition to the fact that there's nothing much in the air to filter... Icing happens a lot in tractors with snow blower attachments.


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## Gravelyman (Dec 6, 2021)

tabora said:


> Which is why most snow blowers don't have air filters, in addition to the fact that there's nothing much in the air to filter... Icing happens a lot in tractors with snow blower attachments.


You can also accurately say that icing happens in tractors with snow blowing attachments because blowing attachments are being used in cold weather. The facts about venturi icing are being less discussed and understood today because of the advent of fuel injection which eliminates the use of a carberator and venturi. Best way to prove it to yourself is fire up your 8HP Ariens w/o the necessary carb shroud on a damp 30 degree evening, work it hard for a few minutes and when it starts pop, pop, popin itself into a fit like an auto load 8MM look down the throat of the carb and you will see a coating of hairy coating of hoar frost on the tapered walls right at the point of the high speed jet. There is no mystery to it and no fix that doesn't heat up the carb casting.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Gravelyman said:


> There is no mystery to it and no fix that doesn't heat up the carb casting.


Which is why winterized snow blower engines have shrouds to transfer some heat from the exhaust system to the intake system. And no air filter. My point was that when snowblowing, it's best to remove the air filter.


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## Gravelyman (Dec 6, 2021)

Removing the air filter does not warm the intake manifold but one problem it may solve on an older unit is that with the canister removed the EGR tube from the valve cover flutter valve will not be so likely to draw in extra moisturized blow-by from inside the engine block. That extra moisture available for freezing in the throat of the carb is the enemy. A second positive of removing the filter is that even a new filter creates just a tiny bit of resistance to air flow and hence a tiny bit of choking affect results which is why you should always adjust the carb with the filter on (if using in the summer with the filter on) Bottom line is that the narrowing of the venturi and the resulting choking of the carb allowing too much fuel and not enough air is what this winter challenge is all about in the final analysis. All the best with your wrenches!


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

As mentioned, winter engines have a heater box and no air filter.


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## Gravelyman (Dec 6, 2021)

It seems you are getting a little hung up on the absence of the air filter but its absence does not solve the problem. The air filter is absent because in is not needed in the winter and eliminating it simplifies the design of the "heater box" which IS the solution to the problem. (Heater box a very accurate and useful term by the way).


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

You don't see much dust in a snowy situation, hence no need for air filter.

Need heater box so you don't leave carb open to ingest snow, etc.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Gravelyman said:


> It seems you are getting a little hung up on the absence of the air filter but its absence does not solve the problem. The air filter is absent because in is not needed in the winter and eliminating it simplifies the design of the "heater box" which IS the solution to the problem. (Heater box a very accurate and useful term by the way).


Since you did not provide a quote, not sure who the "you" is in your post. I don't believe anyone is "hung up on" the air filter question, and I think everyone is in agreement about the importance of a shrouded carburetor:


tabora said:


> Which is why winterized snow blower engines have shrouds to transfer some heat from the exhaust system to the intake system.





Oneacer said:


> As mentioned, winter engines have a heater box





Oneacer said:


> Need heater box so you don't leave carb open to ingest snow, etc.


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