# 824 OE Needs better traction, runs rich @6700 and breaks the auger shaft bolts



## mcmars (Feb 6, 2014)

Hello everyone, I bought a used almost new 824 OE PowerMax model 37798 last year, but only used it once for a light snow. But this year is different and in the last week we have gotten about 10" of the thickest wettest snow I have ever seen and they are calling for another foot tomorrow. I am at 6700 ft in SW colorado. 

Yesterday I sucked out the last years ethanol free stabilized fuel with a turkey baster, which was quite a test of patience and filled the tank with fresh ethanal free gas blended with a tablespoon of seafoam and a tiny bit of the blue stabilizer. I changed out the bosch plug which was black likely from the altitude and installed a NGK BPR6ES and it started on one light pull. Oil was good from a year ago and barely run, 5-30 castol edge full syn. Inflated tires to 16 lbs. Messed with the traction rod and got it where it was one full rotation from going backwards in drive position 1 to be able to crawl slowly for the thick spots. Sprayed on some triflow and fluid film where I thought it might need some lube. 

On wednesday, after it snowed about 6-8" of wet snow and when I discovered I had a broken/missing auger shaft bolt and did not want to risk driving 30 minutes to town for a bolt with horrific road conditions and my 200 ft steep narrow driveway. Luckily a friend came and spent an hour plowing my property with his UTV with plow. I had to go to see a doctor an hour away on Thursday, so yesterday, Friday, was the day to finish up everything and move this wet snow and some dump piles the plow had left. 

The 824 starts and run fine, seems kinda wimpy with the distance it throws wet snow, maybe 15 ft, but in 4 hours of wrangling the machine, I went through 4 of the auger bolts with one lasting 15 minutes. I have gravel and road base, the steeper drive has 1 1/2" aggregate road base and I rake it flat to keep the washboard minimal. I did not hit any large rocks, wood or other objects, just plowing slow with a lot of forward and back to get through some 12 to 18" high berms of snow from my friends plow 2 days before. According to the marketing hype, this machine is good for wet snow and is shear pin free, but yet I replaced 4 of them with grade "5 " 1/4" by 1 1/2" bolts and the ones that had first broken were actual pointed end shear pins, so I am not the first one to have this issue. I believe Toro OEM is grade 5 bolts like I have installed, maybe I need something else. I don't know if this machine is gonna be good for my needs here with the occasional big wet heavy snows we can get and I have about 7000 sq feet to clear including my 200 ft long sloped driveway?? Maybe I need a bigger machine?

I know I am on the edge of needing a high altitude carb kit, but lack of of power does not account for those broken auger shaft shear bolts. Maybe it would blow a bit more distance for me. I can hear an occasional miss, but sounds pretty good and starts great. I am thinking just a tad rich. Maybe someone here has a suggestion on adjusting the carb, new needle, hotter plug of something for my altitude. The new plug helped and I will pull it after this next storm to see how it looks.

My final concern is I need a bit better traction. I found some diagonal chains I ordered from home depot for 16" ariens I think will work, but it will be a while and I know chains are clunky and a pain. I thought about just swapping the tires tomorrow and get the directional tread to point backwards to get a tad more traction as that might be perfect really. What I dealt with yesterday is likely a worst case scenario with 2 day old plowed thick berms of set up snow. But with t driveway slope, I want to be able to go up easily if I end up with it iced up in a few weeks when things start to thaw and refreeze. I saw a few people have added some 1/4" sheet metal screws in the knobbies, maybe that is a good way to go and I return the chains? 

Any other suggestions that might help my situation and help with the auger bolt issue and help with tuning the carb would be great! Thanks everyone!


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

at 6700 ft, you could probably benefit from a slightly smaller main jet. this chart below is for honda, but that loncin 252cc engine uses a carb that is similar to a honda gx carb, and a honda jet or any clone jet will work:










pull the main jet and see which jet size it is, and buy a jet that's one jet smaller.

note: i currently have two loncin-made 196cc engines, a loncin-made 212cc hemi predator, and a loncin 302cc engine on my power max hd 1028.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

6700 feet 11 inch impeller and 7 hp wont get it done
only toro kept the 8 or the 10 after the fake hp numbers in there model numbers
252cc is not 8 hp its barely 7
toro should be ashamed


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## KJSeller (Nov 3, 2021)

IMO I wouldn't be using grade 5 bolts as shear pins. You're at at risk of ruining the transmission. Sounds like your trying to clear the snow as fast as possible which isn't smart. I know Toro claims shear pin free design or that they won't break. 

Other's will chime in with their experience and suggestions.


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## mcmars (Feb 6, 2014)

db130 said:


> at 6700 ft, you could probably benefit from a slightly smaller main jet. this chart below is for honda, but that loncin 252cc engine uses a carb that is similar to a honda gx carb, and a honda jet or any clone jet will work:
> 
> View attachment 206220
> 
> ...


Thank you! I like seeing things in black and white and the graph helps


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## mcmars (Feb 6, 2014)

1132le said:


> 6700 feet 11 inch impeller and 7 hp wont get it done
> only toro kept the 8 or the 10 after the fake hp numbers in there model numbers
> 252cc is not 8 hp its barely 7
> toro should be ashamed


Just like "no shear bolts" and claiming this machine is good for wet snow and gravel. I think I am going to have to go bigger, maybe sneak by this year and shop this summer. I got spoiled with a honda HS928 when I lived at 9400 for 14 years, that thing could much up the huge piles the neighborhood plow would dump in my driveway and spit em 30 ft away.


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## mcmars (Feb 6, 2014)

KJSeller said:


> IMO I wouldn't be using grade 5 bolts as shear pins. You're at at risk of ruining the transmission. Sounds like your trying to clear the snow as fast as possible which isn't smart. I know Toro claims shear pin free design or that they won't break.
> 
> Other's will chime in with their experience and suggestions.


I was hoping someone post about this, seems really weird that I am breaking these bolts so fast when I am not really pushing it. I would go super slow and just before the machine would stop, I would go in reverse and then try again maybe only trying to remove a 6" strip of the packed snow berms. I could use my grain shovel and remove the snow faster than this machine, so not like it was totally set up like concrete. I choose the grade 5 bolts as I read the Home depot questions and someone asked about those bolts and a Toro rep responded that with their beefed up hardened gear box that eliminated the main drive shear bolt, the auger bolts were able to be sized as grade 5. What gets me is if you read the manual for this 824, under trouble shooting why the blower is not blowing snow out the shoot, they never mention that an auger bolt might be broken. It is the first thing anyone with this machine should be checking if it is not blowing snow, but Toro fails to acknowledge these auger bolts can break and need pounding out and replacement. This really makes me want to sell this machine, what else are they not telling the consumer that might go wrong?


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## Marty013 (Mar 14, 2014)

pertainning to your traction issue.. try less PSI in your tires... ive usually run 12psi and i do find a difference in grip with those 2 psi from 14 to 12..


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Have you checked the Impeller bushing??? Or belt? Funny The motor will stall out, takes slot of rasins to break. A grade five bolt. That engine is no where near a 7 Or 8 hp. Lucky if it is even a sixer. Are you sure they are bolts and not those BLOODY FREAKING Sheer pins. Could be a slight of hand by someone. Check the belt and bushing and get back to us on this problem at hand. ALOHA!!!!*


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*The heading here says @6700 hope that is elevation and not rpm. Because if it was I don't know how it is still in one piece. TORO rpm is 3600 +or-150.*


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

UNDERTAKER said:


> hope that is elevation and not rpm.


Elevation Grasshopper... easy does it and Happy New Year to you. 😎


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Well that is what I thought, but you know I have been wrong before.😱😱*


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## mcmars (Feb 6, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the help. I will go try 12 PSI in those tires, I just was not sure when I might risk losing the bead. And just for fun, I think I will swap them so the tread is backwards so the V pattern will give me better forward traction. I know mountain bikes tires with similar tread are designed to be reversible depending on if you want uphill traction or downhill braking. I think it should be the same for these knobby snowblower tires (?). 

And for Undertaker's concern about me stalling the machine, it never once stalled on me. I mentioned changing direction backwards just before it would stop, but that was trying to move some heavy plow berms the plow put in the wrong place. The machine would not stall, just stop because it hit a heavy wall of snow and then ride up onto the snow berm. I try to stop and go backwards before it wheelied onto the berms.

I did confirm those auger bolts are just a normal grade 5 bolt and Toro sells them for $1.13, but they are out of stock, guess I am not the only one breaking them, haha. But I found the Toro bolts on a small engine retailer site for under a buck and they also have the Toro high altitude jet kit with the smaller jet, gasket and sticker for $8, so I will get that ordered with a dozen of those auger bolts. 

Really hoping to return those chains I ordered. I do have a 20 ft long slick icy spot on the steepest part of my 200 ft long driveway that gets shaded late in the day and is a bit scary once the heavy warm snow freezes and thaws. Last year I used quite a bit of snow melt on that area and got it melted down to the road base, but that was a light snow year. Has anyone tried to install some studs or 1/4" sheet metal screws in the tall part of the knobbies on the OEM tires? Hate to make my tires go flat.

The incoming storm is coming in later today then they said, still calling for up to a foot, but with temps near 40 and maybe rain before the temps drop as it passes, ugh! But I bet the Toro might do better this time around as I should be able to get the snow gone before it sits a couple of days and won't have piles of plow snow in my way. Thanks!


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## mcmars (Feb 6, 2014)

Today pretty much confirmed this machine is not up to my needs and I will gimp by doing much of my snow removal by hand or hire a plow for big dumps to get by this year. The day started out discovering I had a 2nd flat in less than a week, although likely not a fault of this machine, just my dumb luck. I had Discount Tire plug a leak 6 days ago from a plastic washer tyvek nail that was in the tire the day before it snowed last week when I inspected the machine to get ready for the incoming storm. Then today another flat, the local tire shop could not find any issues today, just somehow it broke the bead and lost air, even though it held fine for 4 days and I checked it at 16 lbs just 2 days ago. Who knows??? But I tried to find a tube today calling and going to about 10 different tire stores, parts houses and farm stores, but nobody had a 15X4.00-6 inner tube, just a big waste of a couple hours while the snow kept falling. So back to home with a couple hours of day light left and more snow coming tonight. 

I barely made it up my 200 ft slippery driveway with an all wheel drive subaru with brand news AS M&S tires with 5 inches of fresh snow, but made it home. I installed the tires backwards to try get better traction, (which did noticeably work better I later discovered). I warmed the machine up with some easy flat snow removal and noticed the snow was drier and I was able to blow it 15 to 20 ft, finally. Then I hit a 3 ft long 10" deep spot of packed snow and broke my first shear pin, an ace hardware grade 5 bolt. No rocks, and just 5 minutes into operating the machine. Drift and hammer, some quick wrenching and done, new bolt in place. 

So off to do my 200 ft sloped driveway before it gets dark. I broke another auger bolt on the first time down, replaced it and then broke both auger bolts on the 2nd time down. It was the berm of snow at the bottom of the driveway left by the plow which Toro claims the 824 OE is designed to plow through that broke the bolts, no rocks just packed plow snow. 

And between replacing those bolts, I had to gaffer tape the cracked plastic housing cover over the second stage impeller where road base gravel on the driveway had battered and cracked the plastic cover plate. Toro advertises this machine as good for gravel, but the plastic housing cracks when gravel hits it. The cover plate part is $90, but I took my chances and ordered one for $60 from an unknown online source, wish me luck, haha. I also ordered some G Flex epoxy which I know works very well to repair plastic/abs/poly type stuff and I have some kevlar and E glass cloth to repair the cracked housing to use until I sell this POS blower and install the new cover plate for the sale.

I guess I am back to hand clearing my 200 ft long sloped road based driveway as this Toro is not capable of clearing it without major and minor time consuming and money eating issues. I think it is way overhyped in the marketing and on the internet beyond what they claim it does. It likely does fine for a flat paved moderate to light snowy area, but not for my 6700 SW colorado warm heavy snow. I do have an Ariens 926LE I got last year for cheap with low usage that needs a carb cleanup from sitting in a garage and broken belts I will work on repairing. But really thinking I might be best to be looking for a used plow for my 98 suburban this summer as a solution for my situation and use the Ariens to clean up after the plow??. My old honda 928 track would have done fine with my current home, but it is gone and way to expensive to buy new, or even used now in this over priced economy. Guess I will keep looking for an old honda 928 as well and maybe I get lucky.


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## Bearguy69 (1 mo ago)

Toro does not use Sheer pins. Nor do the bolts they have break. I have a 824 OE and it’s a workhorse. I know there’s bigger and more powerful ones out there. I have a huge driveway that can have four cars and a class A RV on it. my 824 picked up a gift from the city snow plow a golf ball size of concrete that got jammed between the auger and the scraper bar. It bent the scraper bar. Stalled the engine. Cleared the jam and finished my driveway. No damage to the gearbox just put a new scraper bar on and it runs great. I don’t know what gear you run it in or what the previous owner did to it. But you should never have a bolt break.


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## mcmars (Feb 6, 2014)

Bearguy69 said:


> Toro does not use Sheer pins. Nor do the bolts they have break. I have a 824 OE and it’s a workhorse. I know there’s bigger and more powerful ones out there. I have a huge driveway that can have four cars and a class A RV on it. my 824 picked up a gift from the city snow plow a golf ball size of concrete that got jammed between the auger and the scraper bar. It bent the scraper bar. Stalled the engine. Cleared the jam and finished my driveway. No damage to the gearbox just put a new scraper bar on and it runs great. I don’t know what gear you run it in or what the previous owner did to it. But you should never have a bolt break.


"I don’t know what gear you run it in or what the previous owner did to it. But you should never have a bolt break". I run the machine in the lowest gear and have the gearing adjusted as low as it goes before it would backwards in first gear. The auger bolts are breaking and they are designed to break, just like any other auger shaft/auger so as to minimize damage to the gearbox. The machine was like new and the prior owner told me he used it for clearing out 2 storms on a small driveway till he moved to another home.

I think my situation is way different than most, my driveway alone just to get to my main property is a 10-12% grade 200 ft long, then I have a 50X60ft parking area and then a 20 ft wide drive about 100 ft long that goes to the rear of my property where I need access to fill a propane tank, bring in a store wood and access my workshop. But the real issue is the heavy wet thick snow we got with several consecutive storms last week, and now another storm coming in on Friday from this big storm hitting CA now. 

Yesterday, I did a bit better as the last storm being a bit cooler had lighter snow as I could finally blow it further. I went to the nearest Toro dealer to buy the proper auger bolts as things stores opened up after the holiday. Ironically a local guy was in the store talking with the owner about wanting to get help to sell his large craftsman blower as he has same problem as I was having with the machine breaking auger bolts and not being able to clear his 600 ft driveway. The owner says everyone has been calling about servicing their blowers as they are not able to clear out this thick snow. I asked the owner if this might be considered a storm of the decade and he agreed and said it was so warm the ground was not frozen and that the snowblowers have a hard time with loose gravel and the thick warm snow. They had some 10 packs of oregon shear pins and I bought 2 10 packs.

The first one broke in 30 ft of 8" thick snow, I think it must have been defective or maybe there was a sharp burr on the shaft??? But then I was able to finish everything except my long sloped driveway with no more broken shear bolts. If I felt the machine bogging down, I would release the left traction handle for about 5 seconds until the chute totally cleared and then go another foot or 2 and repeat. It was slow going, but the Oregon shear pins held up well compared the grade 5 ace hardware bolts I had been using over the weekend. I think it would help if Toro had a super slow and low granny option for conditions like I am dealing with, but I figured out how to go slower by going stop and go. I hand cleared the long 200 ft driveway as I did not want to risk breaking the already cracked plastic impeller/2nd stage cover plate I had taped, the driveway had loose road base since it never got cold enough to freeze the drive and all the melted snow had loosened up the previously hard clay. 

So sorry to diss on this Toro 824, it is easy to use in the right conditions and the joystick is a joy compared to the handcranks. But for my situation with the last week of heavy wet snow, it is not burly enough. I doubt I will experience much snow like this again, but with the climate change making storms more extreme, who knows??? I have a neighbor with a tractor rigged with a plow I know from 20 years ago when we lived in a local ski resort and they offered to come clear my driveway when we get big storms. 

I have not been able to find an inner tube in the proper size as I have a slow leaking plug. Apparently you cannot buy a 15X4.00-6 inner tube for these Toro tires. Not sure how to deal with it, Big O says they cannot replace the plug or patch the leak from the inside and toro dealer cannot find the tube for this size. I will likely buy some slime as it loses about 10 lbs/day now and then loses the bead when it gets real low. Kind of aggravating that something so simple as a flat tire is so difficult to repair. If anyone knows where to find this size tube, please let me know? I did get noticeably better traction after swapping the left and right wheels to get the directional tread pattern pointed backwards and am going to return the chains I bought. I might try installing some thrift store ski tips onto the skids to get another 1/3" clearance and to have the ski tips be able to glide better than the OEM skids, which can catch and then "skid" on uneven ground if I am not pushing down on the handlebars.


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## mcmars (Feb 6, 2014)

LPYes, I am very aware of their marketing claims regarding "no shear bolts". Even the Toro dealer I talked to yesterday rolled his eyes back on Toro's claims regarding "no shear bolts" as he sold me the Oregon brand shear bolts for my Toro blower. From what I can tell, Toro is using a grade 5 bolt as their auger bolts and although they may lack the normal scored out weak spot you see with normal shear bolts, after repeated use in a high stress or impact situation, like any bolt, the metal will get fatigued and eventually fail. And when these bolts fail, it is when you need the machine the most and partly why I posted this thread. I want to help people understand to be prepared when their Toro auger bolts fail to have some shear bolts on hand to replace the OEM bolts in a bad blizzard on a major holiday and not be stranded like I was last week unable to safely access my property or get emergency medical or fire help.

I am not one to get my feathers ruffled easily. But, I think your statement, "I don't think you know what you are talking about" is personally taunting and troll-like. What you do not know about me is I have been living for 33 years in winter climates, 20 of them at 9400 ft with 200-400" of annual snowfall. I may not know as much as the snowblower "guru" types here and is why I am a member of this forum. But I do have much mechanical experience with cars, motorbikes, chainsaws, snowblowers and other mechanical items, including having worked as a car mechanic back in my college days. I suggest you might consider being a bit more thoughtful and respectful in how you communicate on line to people you do not not know anything about if you want to get along and interact here. A little bit of kindness goes a long way in life has been my experience. Here I am repairing our broken shuttle vehicle while being stranded out in the deserts near the lower rio grande river back when I was a young river guide. Now you know me better!


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