# Good Gasless Welder For Beginner?



## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Been looking on Amz. for last couple days for a good gasless welder for a beginner like me. It just seems like more and more welding jobs are coming up.

So what can anyone recommend without breaking the bank? ANyone have any experience with a good welder from Amazon or Harbor Freight?

Was in Home depot the other day and they carry Lincolns and I think the cheapest was around $600.

All I need is something that is good, easy to use, and for the occasional weld and won't cost an arm and a leg.

Can't really trust the reviews online but I know I can trust you guys here.

Thanks in advance.


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## mrfixit (Dec 3, 2016)

I had the Lincoln AC225, stick welder. $309.00 at depot.
For the little welding I did it's fine.
Sold it due to lack of use and wanted the garage space.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

thanks. need one that runs off 110v.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

I rewelded my toro 824 auger housing using the harbor freight flux core welder. 

I have nearly zero welding experience

FWIW...they pass the ugly test & so far all of my welds have held-up after a few seasons of use.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I'll offer what I can. I bought a Lincoln Weld Pak 140HD (runs on 110V) about 5 years ago. For me, as a beginner, with my limited needs, it's been very good. 

I was at first considering a Harbor Freight unit. They are certainly inexpensive. But I seem to remember reading about issues with the wire-feeder in them, and at least the cheap one at the time could only do gasless (flux-core). I don't know if they've changed since then. It sounded like they definitely work, but are not elegant, and can be more finicky (making good, consistent results a bit tougher). 

I did some more reading, and decided to go with something else. WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts is an excellent forum, I learned an awful lot there. My Lincoln was more money, but it's built better, the wire-feeder hasn't given me any trouble, and it's also capable of gas-welding (MIG). It came with the regulator for gas welding. 

I've been very happy with it, for what I need to do. It should also last longer, and hold its value better, than a Harbor Freight. I was fortunate enough to find an open-box unit at my local Home Depot, which helped knock the cost down. And with the gift cards I had, it wasn't much more out-of-pocket than a Harbor Freight, so it was a good choice for me. 

My Lincoln is a big-box version, it's decidedly mid-range, nothing fancy. The big-box store Lincolns are not built as well as the one sold at welding shops. But they're better than the low-end units, like the $100 Harbor Freight. 

Gas (MIG) gives nicer-looking welds, with much less cleanup. And solid-core welding wire (for MIG) is much cheaper than flux-core wire. So if you're going to be using a bunch, the cost difference can start adding up. I bought a used, full tank of CO2 for about $25 off Craiglist from someone who had a home beer tap setup. That let me start doing gas (MIG) welding, in addition to the gasless (flux-core) that I'd been doing at first. That 25lb CO2 tank will last me a very long time before it needs to be refilled. 

Flux-core (gasless) requires less prep-work, the flux helps clean up the metal while welding. But it smokes much more, and creates a lot of spatter, so the welds don't look as nice after. Flux-core burns hotter, so it can weld thicker material than gasless. 

What kind of thickness are you trying to weld? The general guideline is you need 1 Amp per 0.001" of steel thickness. So a 120A welder can properly weld metal up to about 1/8" thick. For some people, that would be very limiting. For me, it's fine. 

In terms of managing cost, you might look for used options around you. I view mine as an investment, it should hopefully last me a long time. And like other tools, it's really been a big help to me when I've needed it. Some things just can't properly be fixed with epoxy, rivets, etc. But regardless of brand, any welder can be a big help to have around. 

Gasless or MIG welding is fairly easy to learn, kind of "point and shoot". A stick welder is much more versatile, especially if it's AC/DC, but they are apparently tougher to learn. And I'm not sure if there are 110V stick welders.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I have a Lincoln 110 mig with gas shielding I bought 20 years ago and use often with no maintenence so far....also a big Miller from 1980 220 with spool gun for aluminum. An old lincoln ac/dc tombstone from the fifties rounds me out. I would take a gamble on the Harbor Freight flux core mig....How can you go wrong?


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

i have the 90 dollar hf 90 amp welder. so far i have run 3 2 pound spools through it and it still works awesome. the welds are not the prettiest but they hold up well. i use it at least once a week. only bad thing i can think of is that it produces a lot of splatter. other then that, its great


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

HF is junk. I have a Lincoln AC/DC 20-225 amp stick welder and a 120 amp Lincoln built Craftsman MIG welder. I would not recommend Craftsman, I'd buy Lincoln or Miller, preferably with gas but that raises the price. Check out CL for a used machine however you may have to replace the liner which is less than $20.


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

Keep room in your budget for a good helmet.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

JLawrence08648 said:


> HF is junk.


Classiccat laid down these beads with admittedly "nearly zero" welding experience with the cheapo HF flux core. There's a lot of people with Lincolns and Miller gas that couldn't get those beads even with photoshop. Tack welding, placing brackets, fixing all your neighbors L series and D series JD lawn tractor deck hangers with this "junk" HF flux core welder might work for others:icon-rolleyes: (you can cheat and swap the stock wire for Lincoln and reduce a bunch of spatter and smoke)


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## Jackmels (Feb 18, 2013)

Check Your Local CL. I found a Decent Lincoln Weld Pac for $100. Been using it for Years.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

JLawrence08648 said:


> HF is junk. I have a Lincoln AC/DC 20-225 amp stick welder and a 120 amp Lincoln built Craftsman MIG welder. I would not recommend Craftsman, I'd buy Lincoln or Miller, preferably with gas but that raises the price. Check out CL for a used machine however you may have to replace the liner which is less than $20.



just curious, have you ever used one of those "junk" hf welders, or are you just another hf hater like sscottsman?


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## justintendo (Jan 2, 2017)

43128 said:


> just curious, have you ever used one of those "junk" hf welders, or are you just another hf hater like sscottsman?


sometimes the junk part comes into play when you need a part...much like a chinese snowblower, parts dont exist. no doubt you can pick up a cheap welder and lay some good welds however. 

i would strongly suggest getting a setup that will let you use gas so you can mig weld, its much more forgiving than fluxcore. fluxcores only real advantage is welding outdoors where theres wind to deal with. 

a good quality 110 welder will do the job for anything on a snowblower..or most any homeowner stuff really. of coarse its easier to run a 220 unit and have more flexibility but theres alot more cost..


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

Lot of good advice on here so far. Many years ago, I started off with a Hobart Handler 110v, 90a gas mig welder. At the time, it was a new designed 110v "Brief Case" welder, that lasted well over 20 years in the garage. I could have repaired it with a $124 circuit board, but by that time, I needed a bigger machine. But that little welder, $500 at the time was a great investment and taught me the skills I needed to get good at it. The more you use it, the more you will WANT to use it. I see them used on C/L for 1/2 what they go for new. Although I'm not a 'hater', I would stay with a name brand, Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart, simply for the fact that any good welding supply store will be able to get parts (or HAVE parts) for it. They will also provide service for it, if you so desire. Good to develop a relationship at that supply store, just for advice you may need or to upgrade helmets, gloves and such. You can spend a lot of time on the welding forums, too. Miller has a great forum that I use a lot. Shop around, ask questions and don't 'UNDER-Buy' your equipment. A good purchase now should last you as long as your repair business. And lead you into your next career....Garden Tractors??? They will need a bigger welder!!!!

GLuck, Jay


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Orangputeh.....
Ive been a welder for over 30 years, have used many machines, and these are the ones in my shop by choice....
Lincoln power mig200 gas mig welder / 220volt, Lincoln squarewave tig 175 pro tig welder / 220volt, hobart handler 140 mig welder ( gas & fluxcore ) / 110volt, Hypertherm plasma powermax 380 plasma cutter / 110volt & 90psi shop air supply needed. I would recommend any of these machines as they have performed excellent over the years with weekly usage. Had the Lincoln 125 gasless mig welder, but I found it did not have enough power / heat output for most of my welding needs.
As to your original question id tell you to buy the hobart handler 140 machine, I've taught many people to weld and several of them bought the 140 and couldn't be happier. It can weld almost everything you will need in the small engine repair trade. My opinion of harbor freight gasless machine is this... had a guy buy one and he watched videos online and he couldn't get a nice weld, had him bring it to me and we welded with it. I did get it to weld somewhat, but I didn't like the penetration and puddle characteristics. Guess for the money it works, but if you can afford the $450 ( Tractor Supply) or so for the hobart 140 I'd consider that as a permanent machine, and it also comes with the regulator if you choose to get a tank for shielding gas. If you have any questions please ask and I'll answer as best as I can. Good luck in your choice. 

P.S. For an all expenses paid round trip to Lake Tahoe I'll come out and teach you to weld. 🤔🤔


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Welding helmets....
I have a few, mostly auto darkening. I must say that im impressed with harbor freight's iron man model, they have several models but iron man has the largest viewing area. Only negative thing i can say is that its plastic, I've melted a few spots from hot welding filler rods and welded parts that were still hot. I have miller and Lincoln fiberglass auto darkening helmets that were about $400 each, but I prefer the Harbor Freight one as its lighter on the head. It may not seem like much, but after having a helmet on your head for 3 or 4 hours it makes a big difference. Another nice feature is there are finger tabs that allow you to put in a cheater magnifying glass in the helmet so you do not need prescription glasses while you're welding. When you have prescription bifocals on you are constantly moving your head so you're able to see up close.... the cheater magnifying lens makes it possible to see everything in your viewing area without moving your head in odd angles, really important if your welding something in a circle as you have to rotate your head around to see it if you want a continuous weld.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Flux core welding wire...
I use .035 harbor freight 10 pound spools, wire seems to run exactly like brand name wire with the exception of slightly more splatter debris. Depending on the project as far as weld splatter is concerned... I either put a piece of scrap metal protecting the areas I do not want splatter or I use anti splatter welding spray. When Harbor Freight has their 20 and 25% off coupons that is the time to buy the $60 spool of flux core welding wire.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Did they give wire feed welder a fancy new name now?????????? and what are they calling stick/arc welding these days???????? last time I touched any kind of welder was back in 1989 in trade school. I liked welding class but mechanics of the Heavy Equipment I did not care for. plus I hated laying on the ground all dirty and cold. That is why I changed vocations. now if I need anything welded I farm that out to my jet mechanic next door neighbor he has all that fancy stuff to play with.mg::emoticon-south-park*


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> * plus I hated laying on the ground all dirty and cold.*


You didn't make much of a career change Todd. Now you deal with things " Under the ground, all dirty and cold".
:banghead:


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Grunt said:


> You didn't make much of a career change Todd. Now you deal with things " Under the ground, all dirty and cold".
> :banghead:


 Yeah but at least I am warm, dry and clean. wearing 1000 plus dollar custom made suits driving fully loaded big black cadillacs.k::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:


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## dhazelton (Dec 8, 2014)

If you're going to be making money with the unit get a Lincoln or Hobart. The Hobart Handler 140 runs off 120 and will last much longer that the Harbor Freight - but yes, it costs four times the price.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

43128 said:


> just curious, have you ever used one of those "junk" hf welders, or are you just another hf hater like sscottsman?


Harbor Freight has it's place and I'm glad they are in business providing jobs and an easy and close source outlet. I am careful what I buy there and stay away from electrical that fail way too soon. I wish HF was smarter and spent pennies, dimes, or dollars more on the quality of their products providing a much better product and still at a low cost then they would blow away everybody without hesitation buying there.

I enjoy HF, glad we have it available. I enjoy walking around. I wish I could use more of their stuff.

I have talked to many people buying drills, grinders, lasting less than one year, and even only a few jobs. I met someone in their parking lot bringing back a MIG welder. He was on his 3rd machine in a couple of months.

I buy their tarps, grinding and cutting wheels, copper tubing brush, their adhesives barely hold, their cable ties - some hold, some don't, I have to be careful putting on their blue gloves that my finger doesn't go through them. For squeeze clamps I have 3 HF clamps and 4 Irwin clamps. Big big difference, the Irwin clamps operate better, smoother, tighter, feel better than the HF clamps.

I'm also careful what I buy at Sears as their parts markup is 200%-400%.

A liner for a MIG welder is $10-$15, high is $20. Sears wants $65, fortunately Lincoln makes their welder and cross referenced for $45 locally and $35 on the Internet. Many parts are not cross referenced and can only be bought from Sears. Chamberlain makes their garage door openers but unless you have the equivalent Chamberlain model #, impossible to cross reference.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

how about the lincoln k2185 on amazon? it gets pretty good reviews.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I'm curious what others say. 

The Amazon listing says 70A max. That seems a bit light on power, but that's of course relative to what you're trying to do. And my 140A 110V unit is still just a little baby vs the serious machines out there, so it's all relative. But it's been enough power for what I want to do so far. 

If you're working with thin stuff (again, going by the 1A-per-0.001" guideline, say about 0.070" thick), then that's fine. If you want to do thicker, than the max current becomes something to consider. Using flux-core wire, vs gas-shielding, will give you more heat, allowing welding stuff that's a little thicker than with gas-shielding. 

What kind of stuff do you see yourself using it for? If you want more flexibility in the future, buying a little more power up-front could pay off. But if it's not going to be needed, then there's no huge reason to spend more money for nothing. If you want 110V-powered (as I did), ~140A is the most you can get, regardless of brand. 

Regardless of what you choose, it can be a great tool to have available. I've used mine for unexpected things, like removing a stuck woodruff key from a shaft. It wouldn't budge with vise-grips, or a punch and mallet. But I welded a scrap piece of steel to it to act as a handle, and was able to work it back and forth until it came out cleanly. Boring, sure, but I thought that was kind of cool  Also built up steel again on a worn area of a shaft, then ground it flush, before installing a new bearing. 

Good luck!


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> I'm curious what others say.
> 
> The Amazon listing says 70A max. That seems a bit light on power, but that's of course relative to what you're trying to do. And my 140A 110V unit is still just a little baby vs the serious machines out there, so it's all relative. But it's been enough power for what I want to do so far.
> 
> ...


glad you brought that up. need to weld cracks in auger housing for one thing. not sure the thickness of that.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

That amps-to-thickness guideline is something I'm recalling from a few years ago, as a rule of thumb. I'm sure it's not perfect. And I believe that's the guideline for proper penetration, for a full-strength weld. 

I can probably put a bead on "too-thick" metal with mine, and get 2 big things to stick together. If I'm making a refrigerator magnet, that may be fine  But if someone was using it to repair a broken car transmission or suspension part, no, that's dangerous, because the weld might break. So it also depends in part on how the item is stressed, how critical it is, if there's a safety aspect, etc. 

A somewhat-common complaint I would see mentioned is inexperienced people building trailers with 110V welders. The welds might look OK, and the trailer will stay assembled. But load it up, and bounce it around on the road, and it may suddenly break. You need to be careful to stay within a machine's limits. 

However, if a machine could only properly weld 0.070", for discussion, but you just want to add a bracket for a light to your blower bucket, then it's probably not a big deal if the metal is 0.150" thick, and it's an imperfect weld.

Oh, and my Harbor Freight digital calipers aren't as nice as my Mitutoyo ones at work, but they're cheap (~$15-20), and they work just fine. Micrometers are more accurate, but also more finicky to read. Calipers are plenty for what I'm doing at home. I would measure the thickness of the steel that I was working with, since the thickness determines the appropriate settings to use on the welder. So having a way to check that is useful.


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## Sblg43 (Jan 18, 2014)

I bought a HF unit a couple years back, used it once, put it back in the box and gave it away. Recently, a Tractor Supply Company store moved into town and had a grand opening sale. I picked up the Hobart Handler 140 (runs off of standard household outlet - with a 20 amp fuse in the breaker box). I was able to pick up this unit for approximately $422 after the sale specials were all calculated.

I did invest in the Argon/CO2 80CFM tank for an additional $269 from a local supplier.

I also bought a quality helmet that cost another $100.

So there is a bit of money invested here, but I know it'll last me for years.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> I've used mine for unexpected things, like removing a stuck woodruff key from a shaft. It wouldn't budge with vise-grips, or a punch and mallet. But I welded a scrap piece of steel to it to act as a handle, and was able to work it back and forth until it came out cleanly. Boring, sure, but I thought that was kind of cool


I've struggled with tough keys, found this to work every time as long as you can fit the claws in the working space the job at hand allows you. Just have a big sledge to tap the claw hammer into place, once wedged in good... hit the claw hammer on top of the head and the key comes right out like magic. Hope this little trick saves aggregation to my fellow Tinkerers. Sorry for blurry pixx, but you get the idea.


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

I got me one of these. Cheap as you can get. I only going to use it to practice with and then move up to something more powerful. Check your craigs list stuff, might find some good material on there. For a good arc welder though you need something with more power. 

70 Amp-AC, 120 Volt, Stick Welder


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## russkat (Feb 25, 2015)

Spend some time here...

Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info

Jody is wealth of information and shares a lot of his experience !

Have a look at the Everlast inverter welders.
Yes... chinese built, but great customer service.

Most likely will not last 25 years like a transformer based machine, but they are very capable machines that perform very well.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Shaw351 said:


> I've struggled with tough keys, found this to work every time as long as you can fit the claws in the working space the job at hand allows you. Just have a big sledge to tap the claw hammer into place, once wedged in good... hit the claw hammer on top of the head and the key comes right out like magic. Hope this little trick saves aggregation to my fellow Tinkerers. Sorry for blurry pixx, but you get the idea.


Good tip, thanks! I tried using diagonal cutters to grab the key and pry it out, but that didn't work. I didn't consider a hammer's claw, that's a good idea.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Everyone who welds, check this site out, very good, very comprehensive but well organized and has an air of simplicity. Thanks to Russkat.



russkat said:


> Spend some time here...
> 
> Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info
> 
> ...


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## RedYeti (Dec 22, 2016)

classiccat said:


> I rewelded my toro 824 auger housing using the harbor freight flux core welder.
> 
> I have nearly zero welding experience
> 
> FWIW...they pass the ugly test & so far all of my welds have held-up after a few seasons of use.


 Now I want a welder.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

That looks real good.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

my lincoln weld pac 100 has done me well. sure it lacks on the heavy end of welding, but my old 220v stick welder lacked on the light side. most trouble ive seen guys having with 120v welders of any brand is caused by the cord from the wall socket to the machine.......dont expect a 100' cheapo cord to work, keep the cord as short as possible, and dont be cheap !


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Regardless of the machine you choose , you have to have the power to it. If your garage is typical and you have 15 amp outlets, you'll struggle with even the low end machines. The other thing to consider is welding is a skill. You can buy a $5000 machine and set your lawn tractor's seat on fire trying to fix the front axle, but still have crappy welds:facepalm_zpsdj194qh Good "welders" usually have thick wrists or carpal tunnel for a reason:wavetowel2:They have skill.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

ended getting a used Lincoln Handy Mig 11205 from a mechanic friend . he guided me to some basics.

now gonna practice after watching some videos.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Cool, congratulations! Enjoy it! 

I have the black & blue Harbor Freight auto-darkening helmet. It's cheap, and not fancy, but it's worked well for me so far. I have gotten a lot of use out of my ~$15 HF angle grinder. For cutting pieces of steel to practice on with a cutting wheel, to clean up rust and tidy things up after a weld with the wire wheel, etc. 

Leather welding gloves are a must, of course. A few cheap clamps, to hold things together while getting ready to weld them, are very helpful, mine are like these, they can help reach around objects: 
6" Swivel Pad Lock-Grip Pliers

Hopefully you'll get a lot of good use out of it. They're a great tool to have available.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> Cool, congratulations! Enjoy it!
> 
> I have the black & blue Harbor Freight auto-darkening helmet. It's cheap, and not fancy, but it's worked well for me so far. I have gotten a lot of use out of my ~$15 HF angle grinder. For cutting pieces of steel to practice on with a cutting wheel, to clean up rust and tidy things up after a weld with the wire wheel, etc.
> 
> ...


thanks for all the good info. going to HF tomorrow .


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Interesting comments on welders. I grew up on a farm and we had a 220v Lincoln tombstone stick welder. Best darn welder I've ever used and I've used a half dozen or so of them.


Had a need to do some welding the other year so thought of that one but I only have 110v in the garage. I first bought a 110v Craftsman stick welder. After many hours of frustration and failures welding, it went into the trash. I then bought a HF 110v mig welder. It did OK but after the first roll or two of wire I started having feeding issues on the wire. Never got it resolved to my satisfaction. It eventually also went into the trash. I then got a Hobart 110v mig welder, boy was that sweet. I've done a fair amount of welding with it. I don't use it a lot but when I do it does the job.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

HCBPH said:


> Interesting comments on welders. I grew up on a farm and we had a 220v Lincoln tombstone stick welder. Best darn welder I've ever used and I've used a half dozen or so of them.
> 
> Had a need to do some welding the other year so thought of that one but I only have 110v in the garage. I first bought a 110v Craftsman stick welder. After many hours of frustration and failures welding, it went into the trash. I then bought a HF 110v mig welder. It did OK but after the first roll or two of wire I started having feeding issues on the wire. Never got it resolved to my satisfaction. It eventually also went into the trash. I then got a Hobart 110v mig welder, boy was that sweet. I've done a fair amount of welding with it. I don't use it a lot but when I do it does the job.


HCBPH - I have a 220v Lincoln because 220 is at the pole and brought into my main panel box. I wired the 220 off of that. I do understand the older houses have only 110v coming in. I've had the Lincoln for 40 yrs. I also have a Lincoln made Craftsman MIG which corresponds to Lincoln parts. I bought it used at a flea market, didn't bring any home fortunately. It was $20 and had feeding issues. I replaced the wire liner, solved my problem. The welding wire gets dirty, picks up dust, gets a little corrosion. All these slowly errode the smooth Teflon type lining inside the wire liner causing feeding issues.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

for my needs I think i did well with the lincoln. i got it for less than half new and I know the guy and he is just upgrading to another Lincoln so think we are both happy with the deal.

haven't started practising yet. doing my homework on you=tube and will check out both welding forums listed in this thread.

thanks.


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## Hanky (Nov 14, 2014)

I have been following this post closely as I have also been thinking of a small welder, Thanks to all that posted on this.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

JLawrence08648 said:


> HCBPH - I have a 220v Lincoln because 220 is at the pole and brought into my main panel box. I wired the 220 off of that. I do understand the older houses have only 110v coming in. I've had the Lincoln for 40 yrs. I also have a Lincoln made Craftsman MIG which corresponds to Lincoln parts. I bought it used at a flea market, didn't bring any home fortunately. It was $20 and had feeding issues. I replaced the wire liner, solved my problem. The welding wire gets dirty, picks up dust, gets a little corrosion. All these slowly errode the smooth Teflon type lining inside the wire liner causing feeding issues.



I hear you on the 220. Looked into it, too expensive to do all the required changes (New post, new main box, and a whole lot of other issues to get it out to the garage). Before you poo-poo that, understand this is a 100+ year old house that was built before electricity was available in the neighborhood. No free slots in the main, already running a sub box and it's full too. Have to tear out a shed to trench a new line to the garage etc. 


On the welder itself, I like the Hobart, it's got parts available through a lot of sources where the others didn't.


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