# toro ccr 3000 wont start



## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

I took in a 1997 toro ccr 3000 model number 38430 ser. 7911xxxx that will not start. this blower has the Chinese built 47pt6-4 engine.

let me start with letting you know that I am a certified small engine mechanic who has been in the business for near 25 years.
but this one has me stumped. and I need some ideas cuz I have a feeling I'm over looking some thing.
this blower came in cuz it would not start. it had been sitting for several years. the carb was gummed up as well as the fuel filter and fuel line. I had the carb tore down and gone through and cleaned. replaced the primer bulb assembly, primer line, fuel line, fuel filter, and spark plug (cj6y). it has near 160 lbs compression, gets spark, and is getting gas. when you prime it and pull it over, it fires up for a very brief second then dies. plug comes out soaked in gas after several pulls.
in my opinion, I think the coil is only firing under low rpm as when first pulling and starting, but quits as rpm increases. that or it has a bad crank seal.
does any one here have experience with this particular engine? I'm not a toro dealer, and the ccr's that I have seen in the past have had briggs or Tecumseh engines in them.
give me your best input and some ideas in case I over looked some thing.
and no I have not performed a leakdown test on this engine. I feel it's too much of a headache trying to block up the ports to do so.
thanks guys


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Had a non-firing ccr and replaced the little gold box that you see in the pic. Got one for a John Deere Kawasaki engine for around $18.00 shipped. Took me half hour to install. Started on first pull and been fine since.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

hello donp, welcome to SBF!! i don't think you have a chinese engine in that ccr3000 you have an engine made in japan by suzuki like all ccr 2000 and 3000's


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I agree William.
My engine with no fire was a Suzuki. The little ignitor fixed it.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

thanks guys. I'm not familiar with this engine, so it might as well be a Chinese model to me. i'll look into that module. the one on e-bay is $74.99 which is a bit pricey to me. I haven't pulled the recoil housing off yet, so I was assuming it had a magneto/cdi type coil like every thing else has. this thing will spark one time when pulling it over, but then that's it. so I figured coil. but i'll see what I can find. thanks, I knew I was over looking some thing.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

donp said:


> thanks guys. I'm not familiar with this engine, so it might as well be a Chinese model to me. i'll look into that module. the one on e-bay is $74.99 which is a bit pricey to me. I haven't pulled the recoil housing off yet, so I was assuming it had a magneto/cdi type coil like every thing else has. this thing will spark one time when pulling it over, but then that's it. so I figured coil. but i'll see what I can find. thanks, I knew I was over looking some thing.


You didn't finish reading my post. You can find an ignitor by itself for under $20.00.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

donp said:


> thanks guys. I'm not familiar with this engine, so it might as well be a Chinese model to me. i'll look into that module. the one on e-bay is $74.99 which is a bit pricey to me. I haven't pulled the recoil housing off yet, so I was assuming it had a magneto/cdi type coil like every thing else has. this thing will spark one time when pulling it over, but then that's it. so I figured coil. but i'll see what I can find. thanks, I knew I was over looking some thing.


Here's what I used to repair my Toro.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

micah68kj said:


> You didn't finish reading my post. You can find an ignitor by itself for under $20.00.


I read it. there was a link posted to an ebay auction. that was where I got the $74.99 price.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

donp said:


> I read it. there was a link posted to an ebay auction. that was where I got the $74.99 price.


Look up above. I found the part that you need. It is a Mege Fire ignktor. $16.00 and some change. I have a screenshot of the part.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

I saw that too. I've seen those before on some old toro mowers with Tecumseh engines that originally had points. I wanna check every thing out before I order any parts for this blower. this guy already has $139.00 in parts installed, and I don't really like after market stuff, but the original parts are nla. so i'll probably end up looking into one of those and installing it just to get this one done. thanks


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Ok. Just wanted to clear things up. My first post was a little vague. Post when you get it running.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

will do. thanks


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

went through every ignition component. cleaned and made sure all grounds are tight. cleaned and checked connections. checked flywheel key. checked coil air gap and reset to .010". has great spark. pulled muffler off to check exhaust port, it was clean. piston has no scratches on side. rings move freely. head bolts are torqued to 10 ft lbs. still wont start. pretty much all that is left is crank seals.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Seems to have switched problems on you. You said it wasn't getting spark, or so it seemed. Now it "has great spark" but still not running. You say it's in time, has great compression. Is the plug still getting wet?


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

before I went through all the ignition parts, it would only spark one time when I would pull it. now when I pull it, it continuously sparks as the engine spins. the plug is coming out wet. even with the muffler removed. I'm thinking that during the vacuum cycle, one or both seals are sucking air. there is no signs of leaking during the compression part of the cycle. no oil seepage or any thing like that. this one really has me stumped.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

and I have tried several brand new plugs in case that's the next question.


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## BeerGhost (Dec 17, 2013)

Check the muffler make shure it's not clogged with carbon or a mud wasp nest.
The Suzuki on my toro mower had those same symptoms.


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## BOSMECH (Dec 16, 2010)

You have fuel, you have spark, you have compression you say at least the only other thing would be the timing I would think.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

BeerGhost said:


> Check the muffler make shure it's not clogged with carbon or a mud wasp nest.
> The Suzuki on my toro mower had those same symptoms.


I had checked that. it wont run even with the muffler off. if it was plugged up, it would at least fire up and run lean.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

micah68kj said:


> I dunno... Does it even sound like it's trying to fire on the first couple of revolutions?
> (I'm still putting money on the ignition module?)


on the very first pull it will fire very briefly then quit. like it runs out of gas, but the plug gets soaked.
I think the crank seals load up with fuel and create enough of a seal to fire up briefly. then that loaded fuel burns off and the crank seal leaks and kills the engine. the only way to really test them is to block off the intake and exhaust, then pressureize the engine and look for leaks. and then apply vacuum to it some how and see if any thing is being sucked in through the seal. crank seals do two things during each revolution of the crank shaft. they hold vacuum in the crankcase during the intake part of the stroke, and they maintain pressure in the crankcase during the compression and exhaust part of the stroke. the hard part is figuring out which way it is failing. a bad crank seal will cause the issue this machine has, and it's the only thing left. even though the top end has 130 lbs of compression, the crank case must be losing some. it has great spark. it could be going out of time somehow as the engine starts to run, but that would really be a rare case especially since the flywheel key is not sheared.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I had an old Gilson w/ a briggs engine on it. Had everything. Good spark, fuel, compression, etc. Wouldn't run. Went through everything one more time. Installed new key and started second pull. Was still running fine when I sold it.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

key as in flywheel key? this one looks perfect. no cracks or evidence of a shear.

new question. decided to try replacing the needle and seat in the carb. how the heck do you get the sleeve out that holds the rubber seat in place?

I wanna see if maybe the carb floods when I'm trying to start this thing up. I tried using an easy out like you do with a briggs carb, but this sleeve will not budge. and if you don't pull the sleeve out you can replace the seat.
I feel stupid asking this, but I have no experience with this carb, or engine. I usually don't take in these type of snow blowers for repair. in my opinion they are a waste of my time and money. and as of right now, I have 37 hours of labor in this throw away piece of junk, and a customer who is really unhappy with me, even though I loaned him my personal bigger 2 stage machine. I'm frustrated with this one, and will never take another one in.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

installed a new needle and seat kit in the carb, and still wont start. it only pops one time when you first pull the rope. so....... after 54 hours of labor in this piece of junk, so I'm kicking it to the curb. I'm done. it has great spark, good compression, clean exhaust and port, new spark plug, and completely rebuilt carb. there's no reason it wont run, but I can't get it to start. I'm out $186.00 in parts not to mention labor. now I know why I don't work on these throw away machines.


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## db9938 (Nov 17, 2013)

An old trick, that I would never suggest to anyone, is that I would place my hand over the intake, to use the power of the intake stroke to suck out the blockages, while I attempted to pull start it.

Again, I am not recommending it, because of the inherent dangers with this approach.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

thanks but there is nothing blocked. it gets lots of fuel. plug comes out soaked.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I was trying to find this thread to see how iturned out. Sorry things didn't go your way. $186.00. Dang that has to hurt.
That's a crazy situation and I have no ideas.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

I bit the bullet this morning and ordered a nova II ignitor just to see if maybe the timing is off, or not working right as the engine tries to start. I'm not holding my breath though. it has such a good fat blue spark now, I can't imagine it not working. I just wonder if maybe it is delayed, or if as rpm increases the spark quits? I just hate to put any more into this thing. but I can't just give up on it either. so even though I've lost my behind in labor, I'm gonna give it a try. after this, if it still wont run, all that will be left is crank seals. and I refuse to do those.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

ok, got the nova II ignitor kit and spent several hours tearing this thing down. I could not remember having seen an ignitor on this when I took every thing apart before, but I had hoped that maybe I missed it. well, this one seems to not have an ignitor. every thing is self contained in the coil. it only has one wire that runs to the shut off switch from the coil, and a wire that runs from the switch to ground. so I have now wasted more time and money on this piece of junk.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

I assume the piece in the lower rigjht corner of this pic is the ignitor correct?
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...wont-start-screenshot_2013-12-13-12-42-04-png

this blower does not have this part.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

donp said:


> I assume the piece in the lower rigjht corner of this pic is the ignitor correct?
> http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...wont-start-screenshot_2013-12-13-12-42-04-png
> 
> this blower does not have this part.


Yep. That's the ignitor. I believe it was the Suzuki engine on the CCR 2000 that I repaired using a similar item.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

other years and model number designations of the ccr 3000 do use the ignitor. but mine does not. that was why I could not understand why everyone kept telling me that's what I needed to get. I could not remember seeing one on this machine, but I went ahead and ordered the part before clarifying whether or not mine had an ignitor anyway. then I tore it down and saw for sure that it does not. like I kept saying, this thing has awesome spark, so I could not believe an ignitor is the problem.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

I really feelnfor ya man. That's awful to spend that much time and $$ and it's still not running.


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

it is possible that the coil may be firing out of time, but I'm betting a crank seal went bad. the guy told me it sat for several years before he brought it to me. probably dried out.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

donp said:


> it is possible that the coil may be firing out of time, but I'm betting a crank seal went bad. the guy told me it sat for several years before he brought it to me. probably dried out.


But how could it be firing out of time? Key is good you said. How much compression did you say it has?


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## Eyeboltman (Dec 16, 2013)

Good luck , hope you get it fix ....


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## donp (Dec 13, 2013)

micah68kj said:


> But how could it be firing out of time? Key is good you said. How much compression did you say it has?


I don't know. I've had people tell me that if the ignitor is bad, it can have a delayed spark. I don't know if this is possible with the solid state coil or not, but it is a slight possibility. the top end has 130 lbs of compression. if it were below 120, I could see there being a problem. but one thing about compression in a 2 stroke is that it is only a measurement in the top end, not the crank case.
I've mulled this over in my head so many times over the last month that I just don't know what to do with it.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Hey donp,
Did you ever get this machine running? Haven't heard anything more aboiut it.


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