# Epic Fail...



## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

So it was my first time out with the "new" 1979 Ariens this weekend. 

Saturday afternoon, I tried to do a quick clean of the carb, because the engine was not running without the choke on 1/2-3/4. I removed the main screw and bowl to clean both. When I was reassembling, I noticed (thank god) that the needle had fallen off the float and onto the ground. I spent 15 minutes trying to figure out how the F I was going to put it back together upside down without taking the carb off. I ended up getting that back together, and shockingly, the engine started right up. 
Next, what I thought might be a frozen butterfly on was really a frozen throttle cable, nothing I did would make the thing budge. I noticed that the throttle seemed to be stuck around 1/4, which probably wasn't going to be effective for snow removal, so I adjusted the throttle cable to about 1/2 throttle. Things seemed to improve initially. I called it a night and waited for the snow. 

Then the snow came... Initially the blower was getting jammed quite a bit so I readjusted the throttle cable to about 2/3, and it seemed do the trick. 
After a while, I found that the engine was surging slightly(not sure if this is the right term). I stopped to fill the gas tank (I put maybe 1/2 a gallon in, which was the most I'd ever put in) and talk to a neighbor. When she left, I turned back to the snowblower, which had gas POURING out of the bottom of the carb (and onto my driveway)... I grabbed a bolt and pliers and plugged the gas line. The culprit seemed to be the drain plug on the bottom of the carb bowl. This thing never leaked gas before. I wasn't quite finished with the driveway, but I quit because I didn't know what to do with the leaking bowl. I feel kind of like a dope, because I probably messed up the drain when I took the bowl off the day before. 

So, at this point, I think I'm going to pick up a new bowl (WITHOUT a drain) and get a throttle cable so I can adjust the throttle without taking off the housing that covers the carb... Since it's supposed to snow again tomorrow, I'm going to PM jackmels and see if he has the parts (since he's local to me, I think). 

Sorry for such a long story.. I was really happy with the Ariens for the time that it was actually working, and I fault myself for not being more mechanically inclined with regards to it breaking down.  I suppose I just have to improve next time!


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

for the drain it is a simple rubber washer that you put on the drain pin. but the bowl has to come off again. if you look at the drain from the outside you will notice it has a notch where you would compress the spring and slide the retainer to one side and it comes off.

since you had the gas line blocked anyway its easier to tilt the blower on its front end to do the float instead of trying to do it upside down.

over time the drain pin will wear a spot in the rubber where it will sit. if it gets bumper and does not sit back in that spot it will leak. sometimes you can just push lightly on the drain a couple time to get it back into its spot.


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

It's frustrating because I don't have a garage, and the access to my basement is in the back of the house where I have to tromp through the snow, so I'm left to work on the snow blower on my deck. It's not ideal, and it SURE IS COLD!


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

The old 1970's Ariens manuals say to leave the throttle in the "run" position when you put the snowblower away for the day..but they didnt say *why*!

I now know why!  from experience..

When im done for the day, I shut down the snowblower in the driveway, and brush off all the snow..(as much as possible)..Fire it back up, wheel it into the garage under power, then shut it down..you normally turn off a running snowblower by moving the throttle lever down to "stop" to shut off the engine..

What happens if you leave it in "stop" and the cable then freezes?
its frozen in the "stop" position! and wont start! 

But what happens if you shut off the engine, then move the throttle back up to "full run" position immediately? (after the engine is off) If the cable then freezes, its frozen in the "run" position, and you can still start and use the snowblower even if the cable is frozen solid!  (if it *stays* frozen you might have to then shut it off by closing the fuel shut-off valve..but just using it might un-freeze the cable)

So for that reason, always move the throttle back up to "run" right after you turn off the machine..so even if it does freeze, its frozen in a good way!

Scot


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

Your needle/float may be out of adjustment and not stopping the file flowing in, just allowing it to run out of the carb. IMO, pull the carb, rebuilt it and make the correct adjustments, and you problems should go away (and roll up the throttle cable and put it in a bath of wd40 to free it up).


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

sscotsman said:


> The old 1970's Ariens manuals say to leave the throttle in the "run" position when you put the snowblower away for the day..but they didnt say *why*!
> 
> I now know why!  from experience..
> 
> ...



That's awesome advice, but I have a feeling this throttle cable was frozen for years before I came to own it.  Once I replace the cable, I will certainly follow this way of doing it.


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

Ray 1962 10ML60 said:


> Your needle/float may be out of adjustment and not stopping the file flowing in, just allowing it to run out of the carb. IMO, pull the carb, rebuilt it and make the correct adjustments, and you problems should go away (and roll up the throttle cable and put it in a bath of wd40 to free it up).



Thanks Ray, my confidence is not super high right now. And with regards to the carb, I'm not sure if it's in my league to do a total rebuild. I think I might end up having to bring it somewhere to have them fix it for me. Which, begs the question, if I'm going to pay someone $100+ to rebuild the carb, should I just buy a predator 212 and stick that on there??


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## Ray 1962 10ML60 (Oct 14, 2011)

ajpleblanc said:


> Thanks Ray, my confidence is not super high right now. And with regards to the carb, I'm not sure if it's in my league to do a total rebuild. I think I might end up having to bring it somewhere to have them fix it for me. Which, begs the question, if I'm going to pay someone $100+ to rebuild the carb, should I just buy a predator 212 and stick that on there??


You can do it, it's not that hard really. There is a lot videos out there to help you through it. You can always try it, if you fail then pay someone.


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

I would hold off on doing an engine swap, I like my predator but if I could kept the original engine I would have. If you're not confident in your own ability to get the carb cleaned & tuned, jackmels is only about a 30 minutes from you and he does repairs as well, he'll get it purring for you.


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

HJames said:


> I would hold off on doing an engine swap, I like my predator but if I could kept the original engine I would have. If you're not confident in your own ability to get the carb cleaned & tuned, jackmels is only about a 30 minutes from you and he does repairs as well, he'll get it purring for you.


That's my aim. The machine looks very clean, I bet it just needs the hand of an expert and it will run just fine. I wish I'd done this in August!


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

Don't get down. Doing a "quick and dirty" on the carb isn't too hard. You can definitely do it.

drop the bowl
pull the pin that the float pivots on and drop the float and valve
blow carb clean up the center jet
use a wire to check the valve port isn't gummed
pull the idle mix screw out of the side and blow carb clean through and put it back
take the screw out of the bowl nut and clean all of it, including holes on the sides of the nut.
open the fuel valve to push any crap out the valve port
put the valve on the float and carefully lift it into place, getting the valve in place.
put the pin in it
put the bowl on, after looking at your drain valve problem. careful of that bowl gasket/seal


I have on occasion dropped the bowl 3 times in a row in 20 degrees before I got it right.


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

nt40lanman said:


> Don't get down. Doing a "quick and dirty" on the carb isn't too hard. You can definitely do it.
> 
> drop the bowl
> pull the pin that the float pivots on and drop the float and valve
> ...


I'm going to give it another shot this afternoon. With more snow coming I really don't feel like shoveling. I just don't want to rush and screw it up. 
Even if I get it put back together and running, I may still bring it to a pro (likely JackMels) and have it serviced so I don't have to fool with it for a while.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

If i was'nt so crazy with my own stuff right now (getting ready for an all nighter plowing and watching my 2 yr old while mom is out) I would help you out . but could help out after storm. 
WELCOME to the site.


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

69ariens said:


> If i was'nt so crazy with my own stuff right now (getting ready for an all nighter plowing and watching my 2 yr old while mom is out) I would help you out . but could help out after storm.
> WELCOME to the site.


Thanks Scott, be safe out there. I just drove home in the light snow we've got at this point, and the idiots are out in force. 

If the snow slows down this afternoon, I might try to spend a few minutes out there working on it. Otherwise, I think I'm going to be working the "manual snowblower" (shovel) for this storm.


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

Well, I made it out there and had a look. It seems that the bowl gasket is either stretched out/worn, or the carb shrunk  That's the good news. 

The bad news is that I don't have the parts to fix it. I'm just going to order a bowl (without the drain) & gasket so that I can fix it later this week when its warmer. 

Has anyone ever had gas leaking from a faulty bowl gasket?


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## HJames (Oct 28, 2013)

Happens all the time!! Are you sure you want a bowl without the drain? The drain makes it real convenient to empty the carb before storage and when it needs service. Different schools of thought about empting the carb vs. using fuel stabilizers for seasonal storage, but the results are the same, no gummy varnish plugging up the carb.


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

I've never seen a bowl drain leak. The bowl gasket, I've had plenty of trouble with those getting "stretched" or something but I always manage to finagle them back on and working. Sometimes I'll tuck it into the rim of the bowl and carefully slip that on the carb. Quick and dirty really does describe my carb talents...


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

nt40lanman said:


> I've never seen a bowl drain leak. The bowl gasket, I've had plenty of trouble with those getting "stretched" or something but I always manage to finagle them back on and working. Sometimes I'll tuck it into the rim of the bowl and carefully slip that on the carb. Quick and dirty really does describe my carb talents...


That's actually how I got it back on there the first time I took the bowl off. Either I didn't seat it properly, or the gasket is just not holding. Of course, it could be a number of other things that I did wrong. I have an odd question, I hadn't been filling the gas tank, and when the leaking started, it was just after I put more gas in, and this time I'd put more gas than I had previously. It was only about a half gallon, but is it possible that the extra weight of the gas through the line would have contributed to this? I know that's a kind of a stupid question, because you should be able to fill the gas tank without leaking, but I wonder if the problem was present previously, but just wasn't showing because I didn't put much gas in.


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

No, probably not. Most likely the float stuck.


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

nt40lanman said:


> No, probably not. Most likely the float stuck.


I'm going to pick up the parts tonight, hopefully I'll have it fixed for the next storm to come.


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## driz (Dec 19, 2013)

Just be careful trying to "rebuild " a carb with one of those kits. You will usually find that the kit has a multitude of parts that fit all kinds of different carbs and the number of them can drive you nuts. Lots of little things that you don't know if you need or not and are darned close in size and shape.
I did that with my Sears generator last summer. I had to take it to a friend of mine who had lots of practice with small carb rebuilds and it still didn't work. Then I saw a complete carb on Amazon Prime for only $34. I had the thing running like a charm in 15 minutes and never touched an adjustment. 
Lesson learned, if you are going to spend $20 for a kit with a million parts and absolutely no directions and none on the net either it's better just to spend the bigger dollar for a whole new carb and spare yourself the hassle. There is a lot of stuff on the net these days that you can pick up cheap if you are willing to take a few chances and are patient.


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## motorhead64 (Dec 15, 2013)

*Bowl drain cure*

I have several pieces of equipment that have the old bowl drains. I have found that little "o" rings from the assortment found at Harbor Freight work really well...they stand up well to gasoline and they seal well. I like having the drain for 2 reasons. You can always determine if your bowl is getting fuel to it by draining a bit, and you can drain all the fuel at the end of the season. MH


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

Well, I'm done... I pulled the thing apart, replaced the bowl gasket, the bow (no drain on the new one). Put it back together, and fired it up. Ran great. 
Shut it off, started leaking gas again. I'm guessing the float is getting stuck, or the float pin gasket is bad, but I know when I'm outside my skill level. So, I'm going to call around and get some quotes to have it fixed. Also, while I was trying to start it, the recoil rope snapped. We have a 3 month old baby, and I just don't have the time to mess around with the thing any longer. 

If anyone has any recommendations for service, I'd be happy to listen. 
I'm going to shoot a message to jackmels, but he recently told me he was swamped, so we'll see if anyone else has some availability. 

Thanks guys
Andy


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

I can straighten it up for you. I'm right down in Marlborough, near Fireflys.


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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

nt40lanman said:


> I can straighten it up for you. I'm right down in Marlborough, near Fireflys.


That's not far, but I don't have a way to get it there 

I just called 2 places. One didn't answer, the other said they could pick up tomorrow and they'd keep it for 3 weeks.


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## nt40lanman (Dec 31, 2012)

I suppose for a little more I can come get it. I should be able to have it done in a week or less.


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## OldAriensRuleNewEngland (Mar 27, 2013)




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## ajpleblanc (Dec 9, 2013)

Thanks, I've got no problem finding just about anything there is on ye ole google, I just lack the skills to put the video's into practice. 



OldAriensRuleNewEngland said:


> Carburetor Rebuild on 4-7HP Tecumseh Snowblower Engine Part 1/2 - YouTube


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