# Simplicity Power Boost



## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I’m intrigued by simplicities use of a variable auger drive pulley. The closest I’ve seen to a visual of the piece is a silly animated video on YouTube. 

Anyone with a newer Signature Pro mind pulling their belt cover and posting some pics of under the hood? 

My understanding is that it’s not a RPM dependent system like a snow mobile CVT. Instead it’s load dependent, increased load on the auger and impeller applies greater force on the drive pulley halves. This spreads the spring loaded halves reducing the pulley diameter allowing the keep the engine from bogging. 

Thoughts?


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

rather have the sho bigger pulley on all the time nothing to break
no bogging with the 414cc unlike these guys saying my 6/24 is just as good smh
this 1 day at bandcamp its gtting deep


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## rslifkin (Mar 5, 2018)

1132le said:


> rather have the sho bigger pulley on all the time nothing to break
> no bogging with the 414cc unlike these guys saying my 6/24 is just as good smh
> this 1 day at bandcamp its gtting deep



Agreed. Now if the drive system were set up so that when it hit full engine load it started to slow the ground speed (and maybe auger, but not impeller speed) to reduce the rate of snow ingestion, that would be perfect (as it would make it easier to run the machine right up to the limit of what it could process and stay there instead of having to run below the limit to avoid bogging from accidentally going over the limit). Of course, this assumes enough impeller speed that you'd start to bog before spilling snow over the sides of the bucket due to insufficient processing rate.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> I’m intrigued by simplicities use of a variable auger drive pulley. The closest I’ve seen to a visual of the piece is a silly animated video on YouTube.
> 
> Anyone with a newer Signature Pro mind pulley their belt cover and posting some pics of under the hood?
> 
> ...



I will get you pictures tomorrow, I'm done for the day.



Put quite simply, it works. I know, because I have it. It took down wet, heavy snow at my dads, threw it from the middle of a 30 foot driveway, about 3 cars wide, cleared the end of the driveway and then some. Your description is right on.


Regarding HP and CCs as a basis for anything, as others have pointed out in other posts, I think it was Zavie summed it up best when he said this:




Zavie said:


> LOL, could not agree with you more. First of all any talk about more or less CC's or HP is completely useless. Unless the power from the engine is transmitted exactly the same between different machines to the impeller and auger, (no it never is) than any spouting about "this much will give you this" is just clueless bantering.



I said it this way, same thought, different words:




jsup said:


> It's like street racing on paper. Some guys will give you 10,000 reasons why their car will beat yours, until you line up at the light, and it doesn't.
> 
> I agree 100.....no 1000%!


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

rslifkin said:


> Agreed. Now if the drive system were set up so that when it hit full engine load it started to slow the ground speed (and maybe auger, but not impeller speed) to reduce the rate of snow ingestion, that would be perfect (as it would make it easier to run the machine right up to the limit of what it could process and stay there instead of having to run below the limit to avoid bogging from accidentally going over the limit). Of course, this assumes enough impeller speed that you'd start to bog before spilling snow over the sides of the bucket due to insufficient processing rate.



What you want is automatic load sensing hydrostatic drive, go ahead, design and market it.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

1132le said:


> rather have the sho bigger pulley on all the time nothing to break
> no bogging with the 414cc unlike these guys saying my 6/24 is just as good smh
> this 1 day at bandcamp its gtting deep


But Simplicity has a 420cc machine, so they can have plenty of engine available as well. 

Risk of breakage is definitely a risk, no question. There are more moving parts, and they're on a critical component. I don't know how many of these are in the field, and how they've performed. Hopefully if the spring failed, it would just let the pulley open fully, just acting like a small-diameter pulley (but still hopefully letting you clear snow). 

But I like the fact that PowerBoost can offer: 
- fast-spinning impeller & augers, so a long throwing distance, and a lot of snow-processing per second, when the load is light enough and permits that. Performing more like a large-diameter SHO pulley. 
- high-torque to the impeller & augers, when the snow gets heavy, like nasty EOD. Helping to reduce bogging, when a large-diameter pulley would work against you (making engine bogging more likely). 

Even a beefy vehicle will drop down a gear or two when doing something like pulling a heavy load up a hill. Transmissions are helpful for dealing with different conditions, whether it's a car, bike, or presumably, a blower's impeller system. 

It sounds to me like the best of both worlds. Especially if it was set up "perfectly", to only decrease the pulley diameter just as the engine started to bog down. Unfortunately, since it's just a spring, it's probably difficult to set up "perfectly". 

I'd like to try a machine with this sometime, but haven't gotten to yet.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

1132le said:


> rather have the sho bigger pulley on all the time nothing to break
> no bogging with the 414cc unlike these guys saying my 6/24 is just as good smh
> this 1 day at bandcamp its gtting deep


there's no need to communicate your fondness of the bandcamp champ 414 SHO in every post

ITS TATTOOED IN OUR BRAINS NOW :grin:



.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> - high-torque to the impeller & augers, when the snow gets heavy, like nasty EOD. Helping to reduce bogging, when a large-diameter pulley would work against you (making engine bogging more likely).


 Great post, I just wanted to comment on this part. This would REDUCE the differential between a larger engine and a smaller one, basically negating any advantage the larger engine has. It realistically can make the smaller engine out perform the bigger engine. 



Instead of driving around town in second gear, you get to use them all. I'll take a smaller engine with gears over a larger engine without gears any time. In any contraption with a rotational engine, gears always help.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

drmerdp said:


> I’m intrigued by simplicities use of a variable auger drive pulley. The closest I’ve seen to a visual of the piece is a silly animated video on YouTube.
> 
> Anyone with a newer Signature Pro mind pulley their belt cover and posting some pics of under the hood?
> 
> ...



There is a very heavy duty spring between the drive and auger pulleys and you are exactly right about how it works. A sudden load at auger/fan will increase belt tension causing the two halves to separate in essence dropping a gear.


Your typical snow blowing experience is through a fairly consistent depth and consistency with the machine not laboring at a comfortable speed for the conditions. When attacking the EOD pile which would start to bog a machine down the belt tension increases and the engine grunts back into the powerband temporarily. Wheel drive does not bog an engine down in snow it is the bucket end.


The only problems I have encountered with this system on many machines over more than a few years is that the sliding pulley half can rust from inactivity disabling the power boost feature and require a freeing up with penetrating spray and tapping.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

OK OK, I ran down to the garage. Here's your pics.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> But Simplicity has a 420cc machine, so they can have plenty of engine available as well.
> 
> Risk of breakage is definitely a risk, no question. There are more moving parts, and they're on a critical component. I don't know how many of these are in the field, and how they've performed. Hopefully if the spring failed, it would just let the pulley open fully, just acting like a small-diameter pulley (but still hopefully letting you clear snow).
> 
> ...



Red a faster impeller is never working against you


I can tell your from turning up both my machines up the st824 rust bucket and the 414cc the faster impeller works better in every condition the machines are 1000% better i get about the worst conditions you can get along the coast of mass the kitted st824 clearly proves the point the machine is a star with the kit and the impeller rpm increase it throws good snow almost 50 feet and slop like a fire hose 35 feet that is more then the blower was rated to throw the best snow new

the sho setup is better then something that decides when its going to help you

ive been blowing the same driveway for 40 plus years
used prolly every old ariens blower ever made 3hp to 13 hp now the newer motors plus a few toro power shifts 2 craftsmans cough cough
i have had the shootout in the same driveway for 40 years
Its no contest the 414cc is the best by so far its silly anybody saying more power isnt better welll that speaks for itself
the st504 on my driveway was a joke heavy snow i could shovel faster dod it work sure could i take pics and say hey like what my st504 can clear it took 5 hours and clogged 48 times but look at my pics ( silly) you can do my driveway in 1 hr 30 min with a 6/24 ill be done in 45 min with the 414cc then be inside doing a shot of gold schalger or a cup of coco

worker smarter not harder

faster impeller== better performance its pretty simple
sho is always on


People on this site who have modded there impeller speeds have first hand use of machines with high impeller machines
not likely you will find 1 who will say it doesnt help in every type of condition
myself
town
drm
shaw
and few ive surely forgotten
thats not bench racing specs at bandcamp


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

1132le said:


> Red a faster impeller is never working against you
> 
> 
> I can tell your from turning up both my machines up the st824 rust bucket and the 414cc the faster impeller works better in every condition the machines are 1000% better i get about the worst conditions you can get along the coast of mass the kitted st824 clearly proves the point the machine is a star with the kit and the impeller rpm increase it throws good snow almost 50 feet and slop like a fire hose 35 feet that is more then the blower was rated to throw the best snow new
> ...





So basically, you have a bunch of conjecture. Without having used the power boost system, you really don't know. What you do know, is your newest machine, with the biggest engine, works better than older machines with smaller engines, none of which have the power boost system the OP asked about. All of which may or may not have been inferior to the power boost system, because without testing, you don't know. 



Just making sure I have this straight. 



Like I said, just like people who tell you 1000 reasons their car will beat yours in a race, until you line them up, and they lose. Then it's nothing but excuses.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

DriverRider said:


> ...
> Wheel drive does not bog an engine down in snow it is the bucket end.
> 
> The only problems I have encountered with this system on many machines over more than a few years is that the sliding pulley half can rust from inactivity disabling the power boost feature and require a freeing up with penetrating spray and tapping.


I had wondered about what might happen if the system sat unused for a while, especially in damp conditions. Of course, you need to be careful with lubricating the system, since you can't afford to accidentally get any on the belt-contacting surfaces. 

That's an interesting point about the wheel drive, though. I hadn't thought about that (I realize this wasn't your point, but you got me thinking). 

On most machines, your auger speed & wheel speed are linked. So maybe 1st gear gives you say, 5 auger revolutions per foot of forward ground travel. If your engine bogs, everything slows, and you still get 5 auger revolutions per foot of forward travel (it just takes more time to travel that 1 foot, and to get those 5 revolutions). You won't throw as far (impeller RPM has dropped), but you're still "chewing" at the same rate, per distance of forward travel. 

With PowerBoost, that changes. Now you stay in 1st gear, but when you hit heavy snow, maybe the system gears down to 4 auger revolutions per foot of ground travel. I wonder if that makes snow more likely to overflow from the bucket? You're kinda "force-feeding" the bucket now. Somewhat akin to how the bucket behaves if using 2nd gear, I suppose, vs 1st, including on a "normal" blower. 

I'm not saying this makes it a bad system, nothing of the sort. It's just an aspect that I'd never considered. 

A load-sensing hydrostatic system would be pretty cool too. I don't know how easy it is to be nudging the speed control as the load changes, as a manual version. We're gonna need twist-grip ground-speed controls, with a thumb-actuated joystick for aiming the chute, and triggers for steering. Keeping everything humming along will be like conducting a little orchestra.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> I had wondered about what might happen if the system sat unused for a while, especially in damp conditions. Of course, you need to be careful with lubricating the system, since you can't afford to accidentally get any on the belt-contacting surfaces. .





DriverRider said:


> The only problems I have encountered with this system on many machines over more than a few years is that the sliding pulley half can rust from inactivity disabling the power boost feature and require a freeing up with penetrating spray and tapping.



Good points. I'm going to throw some anti-seize on mine tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up.



BTW, the spring is almost 1/4 inch diameter wire, and wound loosely that the coils don't touch. See pics, so that rusting together shouldn't be an issue.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

jsup said:


> So basically, you have a bunch of conjecture. Without having used the power boost system, you really don't know. What you do know, is your newest machine, with the biggest engine, works better than older machines with smaller engines, none of which have the power boost system the OP asked about. All of which may or may not have been inferior to the power boost system, because without testing, you don't know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dont think i need to use it to know it only works when it feels the need to there own vid tells you that

I have first hand use with my 40 yr old rust bucket 8 hp throwing snow almost double what it was rated new in the 80s and slop farther then it was rated to blow the best snow new and chewing very heavy wet snow quite good for 12.75 ft lbs Before the increased impeller speed and the impeller kit that blower had a very hard time clearing heavy wet snow i get here took much longer to finish much longer those are the facts stands to reason that must be a good thing or will you try and run circles with that 

if something works better stands to reason to have it on all the time vs when it decides its going to help you
since i have 1st hand use of this i would think that takes it from imo to a fact but you run with it thats what you like to do
just like the efi thing but you were way wrong on that as well


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> But Simplicity has a 420cc machine, so they can have plenty of engine available as well.
> 
> Risk of breakage is definitely a risk, no question. There are more moving parts, and they're on a critical component. I don't know how many of these are in the field, and how they've performed. Hopefully if the spring failed, it would just let the pulley open fully, just acting like a small-diameter pulley (but still hopefully letting you clear snow).



They are decently built pulleys just like any others, do you ever hear of snapped PTO pulleys? No spring problems either.




RedOctobyr said:


> But I like the fact that PowerBoost can offer:
> - fast-spinning impeller & augers, so a long throwing distance, and a lot of snow-processing per second, when the load is light enough and permits that. Performing more like a large-diameter SHO pulley.
> - high-torque to the impeller & augers, when the snow gets heavy, like nasty EOD. Helping to reduce bogging, when a large-diameter pulley would work against you (making engine bogging more likely).
> 
> ...



Sounds good to me.:smile2: The power boost is not something kicking in all the time, only when the engine starts to take a pretty good hit power-wise loading up the belt does it downshift.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

1132le said:


> I dont think i need to use it to know it only works when it feels the need to there own vid tells you that
> 
> I have first hand use with my 40 yr old rust bucket 8 hp throwing snow almost double what it was rated new in the 80s and slop farther then it was rated to blow the best snow new and chewing very heavy wet snow quite good for 12.75 ft lbs Before the increased impeller speed and the impeller kit that blower had a very hard time clearing heavy wet snow i get here took much longer to finish much longer those are the facts stands to reason that must be a good thing or will you try and run circles with that
> 
> ...





"better" cute little word. Better. Better is in the eye of the beholder. Better is subjective in the absence of facts. I have seen no facts to support your position, just conjecture. Yes, it's better than your older units, but there's no evidence to suggest a single speed is superior to multiple speeds. Nor is there any comparison to prove it isn't. 



I don't think it's better. My dad has a 5.5HP Ariens, and my 11HP Simplicity out performed it. Therefore, the power boost is better. (sounds ridiculous right) Now what? You still don't know if it will outperform the Simplicity. Neither do I. So, again, now what? 



There's a term for this, it's called bench racing.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Hey Divider Rider, have you changed the belt yet on this? Does the spring make it more difficult? Just wonderin


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

jsup said:


> "better" cute little word. Better. Better is in the eye of the beholder. Better is subjective in the absence of facts. I have seen no facts to support your position, just conjecture. Yes, it's better than your older units, but there's no evidence to suggest a single speed is superior to multiple speeds. Nor is there any comparison to prove it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







The only 1 bench racing is you


this not about new vs old mcfly its about if a higher rpm impeller all the time works better then something that turns on when it senses the need
higher rpm impeller is going to perform better how can i say that ive turned mine up and its so much better it feels like 13 hp engine it clears so much better as well as throws better
what you fail to understand imagine that is i used my st824 as an example to show that brand new they were rated to throw good snow 25 to 30 feet and slop well 3 feet or clog mine is 45 feet good snow 35 feet slop never clogs stands to reason the impeller increase must work as it clears better then before in all conditions
i also had the kit on it for 3 years before i increased the impeller speed was a marked increase in performance again after the impeller increase

thats hands on use not bench racing 

you are just trying to nit pick as you always do
pull 1 quote out and snap of a reply
pretty sad grow up


waaa why does everyone say buy and ariens lol


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

1132le said:


> The only 1 bench racing is you
> 
> 
> this not about new vs old mcfly its about if a higher rpm impeller all the time works better then something that turns on when it senses the need
> ...



You're funny. You have no idea what you're talking about, but you keep going. 



"feels like a 13HP engine".....it doesn't get any better than this. Tell me, what does a 13HP engine feel like?



Thanks for the laughs.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

jsup said:


> You're funny. You have no idea what you're talking about, but you keep going.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if you had one you would know

with all your multi business ventures and such iam shocked you do not have one


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## russ01915 (Dec 18, 2013)




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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

1132le said:


> rather have the sho bigger pulley on all the time nothing to break
> no bogging with the 414cc unlike these guys saying my 6/24 is just as good smh
> this 1 day at bandcamp its gtting deep


LoL, first reply.... the Big Engines Ariens Bomb.

Thanks for the pictures jsup. 

I love the idea of a down-shift under a calibrated amount of load. 

This has got my gears turning.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> LoL, first reply.... the Big Engines Ariens Bomb.
> 
> Thanks for the pictures jsup.
> 
> ...



you modded your impeller higher you can speak with 1st hand use
do you find any conditions where the always on hi impeller rpm does not help the machine work better?
I have not so i guess i like mine on all the time
but thats a no no iam snowblower forum bench racing 

what a joke


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

DriverRider said:


> What you want is automatic load sensing hydrostatic drive, go ahead, design and market it.


Well it’s not hydrostatic, but it’s load sensing. Honda HS1336i hybrid. 

Electric motors power the tracks and engine powers the bucket and electrical system. Has automatic load optimization and manual modes. Pretty cool, shockingly expensive.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> LoL, first reply.... the Big Engines Ariens Bomb.
> 
> Thanks for the pictures jsup.
> 
> ...



Maybe you can get the simplicity parts and adapt it to your output shaft?


Here's the thing, sometimes you need a tractor, so you want it geared like a tractor. Sometimes you want highway gears. This way you can have both. 



If you're near by in Jersey, you can swing by and try it out, if we ever get snow. We can throw it on my truck and take it somewhere to try.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> LoL, first reply.... the Big Engines Ariens Bomb.



That's what I thought. What compels people to do this? IDK, it's nuts.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

1132le said:


> you modded your impeller higher you can speak with 1st hand use
> do you find any conditions where the always on hi impeller rpm does not help the machine work better?
> I have not so i guess i like mine on all the time
> but thats a no no iam snowblower forum bench racing
> ...


My impeller speed is pretty darn high. And it does work Really well. But. There is merit in a two ratio system. 

To be frank, my machine can process and hurl snow. I have a large engine operating at it best, and hydro speed control that can dial maximum load and with very efficient snow processing. I can feel and dial in 50, 75, 100% engine load. But my machine always wants to throw snow a mile. It’s always in 5th gear throwing 60”. I like the idea of being able drop into 4th and move more snow less far if I load the machine to that degree.

You guys have seen vintage machines with 5hp flatheads putter through big snow, throwing what looks like a Solid Log of snow from their short chutes a whopping 5 feet. That’s torque.

A horse power for torque compromise on demand. That’s pretty cool. 



Always throwing 60” is a tad generous but you know what I’m sayin.


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## Dag Johnsen (Dec 24, 2018)

*it works*



drmerdp said:


> I’m intrigued by simplicities use of a variable auger drive pulley. The closest I’ve seen to a visual of the piece is a silly animated video on YouTube.
> 
> Anyone with a newer Signature Pro mind pulley their belt cover and posting some pics of under the hood?
> 
> ...



I have it and it Works great. It makes Your machine more flexible and capable especially under Heavy and variating loads.
No Wonder other brands envy this patent.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

jsup said:


> Maybe you can get the simplicity parts and adapt it to your output shaft?
> 
> Here's the thing, sometimes you need a tractor, so you want it geared like a tractor. Sometimes you want highway gears. This way you can have both.
> 
> If you're near by in Jersey, you can swing by and try it out, if we ever get snow. We can throw it on my truck and take it somewhere to try.


 I can picture my wife’s face when I tell her I’m going to go research a snowblower. lol. Thanks, I appreciate the offer.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> I can picture my wife’s face when I tell her I’m going to go research a snowblower. lol. Thanks, I appreciate the offer.



Sadly, my wife would just shrug it off as normal, she's pretty much used to my "hairbrained" excursions. Offer's open if you get that curious.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

jsup said:


> Sadly, my wife would just shrug it off as normal, she's pretty much used to my "hairbrained" excursions. Offer's open if you get that curious.


when i go out,mine simply tells me NO MORE cars !!


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

33 woodie said:


> when i go out,mine simply tells me NO MORE cars !!



On a side note, sorry for the diversion people but I digress, I'd like to sell my Corvette. I have my eye on a '69 caddy convertible which is better for my getting old behind. Corvette has a Pat Musi 427 SBC, about $40K invested. I'll take $20K, if you know anyone, email me. 



My wife tells me the same thing, apparently I have "enough" cars.


Now, back to my regularly scheduled thread.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

jsup said:


> Maybe you can get the simplicity parts and adapt it to your output shaft?


I've wondered about that. Two of the concerns that came to mind:
- the pulley diameter range might be significantly different than what's on the machine now. Potentially speeding/slowing the augers unintentionally (maybe outside of the preferred range).
- I'm guessing you might need an idler pulley with a larger range of motion, since it needs to be able to tighten/release the belt on a range of pulley diameters.

Any idea of the impeller RPM range for these machines? That would be interesting to know. Even just the unloaded impeller RPM, before PB starts to act. 

It could be measured with an optical tachometer. Or estimated by counting engine revolutions per impeller revolution, turning the engine by hand with the plug removed. 

Unfortunately, the ratio or speed with the pulley fully loaded would be a lot harder to measure. Simplicity could probably better answer that, if they were willing to.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> I've wondered about that. Two of the concerns that came to mind:
> - the pulley diameter range might be significantly different than what's on the machine now. Potentially speeding/slowing the augers unintentionally (maybe outside of the preferred range).
> - I'm guessing you might need an idler pulley with a larger range of motion, since it needs to be able to tighten/release the belt on a range of pulley diameters.



Two good points. The answer to both is I don't know. It does make a whole lot of sense to me. 




> Any idea of the impeller RPM range for these machines? That would be interesting to know. Even just the unloaded impeller RPM, before PB starts to act.
> 
> It could be measured with an optical tachometer. Or estimated by counting engine revolutions per impeller revolution, turning the engine by hand with the plug removed.



If I have time, I'll try to do that. Wish I could promise you this today, but can't. I'll try to do that over the weekend. 




> Unfortunately, the ratio or speed with the pulley fully loaded would be a lot harder to measure. Simplicity could probably better answer that, if they were willing to.



That's one of the many reasons why it's so hard to try to make any judgements on comparative performance. In addition, different designs to the impellers may require different RPMs. These things are designed as a system, no one part plays a more significant role than the other. If the Power Boost works well with the designed system it is found in, would it work similarly well in a system NOT designed for it? I don't know. I also don't know the detail in changes to the design, sans the obvious. But it would sure be fun to try! 



Given what I just said, I see everything as an opportunity. One of my faults. I wonder if Briggs licensed conversion kits only (to maintain the competitive advantage of a superior system) if there would be a business in that. A tested conversion kit specific to the model would be best, but I still have to scratch my head and wonder if a "trial conversion" is possible.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

What year Vette, and where are you located?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

jsup said:


> If I have time, I'll try to do that. Wish I could promise you this today, but can't. I'll try to do that over the weekend.


Certainly no rush. But it seems like it would be interesting to know. It would help show, for instance, the max impeller tip speed, vs other blowers. Which certainly wouldn't tell a complete story, but it would still allow a *bit* better understanding of how things might compare. 



> That's one of the many reasons why it's so hard to try to make any judgements on comparative performance. In addition, different designs to the impellers may require different RPMs. These things are designed as a system, no one part plays a more significant role than the other. If the Power Boost works well with the designed system it is found in, would it work similarly well in a system NOT designed for it? I don't know. I also don't know the detail in changes to the design, sans the obvious. But it would sure be fun to try!


Agreed that these are designed as systems. I wouldn't want to go transplanting a Honda impeller into a Simplicity blower housing, for instance. Those sorts of changes would sound much-too fundamental, and would probably just make things worse. 

But simply changing the RPM for a given system doesn't sound unreasonable. That's pretty much what Ariens does on their SHO models, they just use a larger pulley, I believe, and speed it up. If there are other changes to the system, I'm not aware of them. Sometimes in the past they used a different impeller as well, but I think these days it's the same impeller. 



> I wonder if Briggs licensed conversion kits only (to maintain the competitive advantage of a superior system) if there would be a business in that.


That would be cool. And unfortunately, I'd be shocked if it ever happened. They presumably want to keep it exclusive to their machines. And nobody would really want to own the potential problems of converting a competitor's product. What happens to the warranty, who is responsible when something breaks (even if unrelated to the kit), etc. 

And frankly, most "normal" users (not us!) probably never give a moment's thought to systems like this, or would ever consider making a change like that to their machine. So even without liability-type problems, who is your target market, for all the work that would be required to develop and market kits? A handful of enthusiasts trying to combine features to make their ideal hybrid machine? Briggs would probably lose less money by just taking a handful of it and lighting it on fire


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

rit333 said:


> what year vette, and where are you located?



pm sent


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

RedOctobyr said:


> ..........
> But simply changing the RPM for a given system doesn't sound unreasonable. That's pretty much what Ariens does on their SHO models, they just use a larger pulley, I believe, and speed it up. If there are other changes to the system, I'm not aware of them. Sometimes in the past they used a different impeller as well, but I think these days it's the same impeller.
> ........


You are correct with Ariens using a larger pulley on the SHO. The standard pulley is 2.5" while the SHO uses 2.75" pulley on the engine shaft. The Pro models use the same diameter pulley (2.75") and the same 8.5" impeller pulley. All the engines run at the same rpm of 3,600 but the +/- may be different per engine manufacturer.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Certainly no rush. But it seems like it would be interesting to know. It would help show, for instance, the max impeller tip speed, vs other blowers. Which certainly wouldn't tell a complete story, but it would still allow a *bit* better understanding of how things might compare.


Any suggestions on how to make sure it's 1 engine revolution? That's the issue I'm having trouble visualizing. If I pull the cord, how do I know when I traveled 1 revolution.


I can lock down the auger control handle with a zip tie. No problem. I have a 15 year old who can pull the cord, but how do I know? Any suggestions would be appreciated.




> Agreed that these are designed as systems. I wouldn't want to go transplanting a Honda impeller into a Simplicity blower housing, for instance. Those sorts of changes would sound much-too fundamental, and would probably just make things worse.



And that's why comparisons of specific aspects of a system, pulley size, impeller size, and impeller RPM are really just anecdotal and meaningless in a vacuum. The design of the system has different requirements. 




> But simply changing the RPM for a given system doesn't sound unreasonable. That's pretty much what Ariens does on their SHO models, they just use a larger pulley, I believe, and speed it up. If there are other changes to the system, I'm not aware of them. Sometimes in the past they used a different impeller as well, but I think these days it's the same impeller.



A larger pulley would require more power, right? And adding power because of the larger pulley, kinda negates the point of having more power. Do I have that right? 



But I agree, having a transmission, as this essentially is, is definitely a benefit. I don't see how anyone can argue differently. It certainly can't hurt. 






> That would be cool. And unfortunately, I'd be shocked if it ever happened. They presumably want to keep it exclusive to their machines. And nobody would really want to own the potential problems of converting a competitor's product. What happens to the warranty, who is responsible when something breaks (even if unrelated to the kit), etc.
> 
> And frankly, most "normal" users (not us!) probably never give a moment's thought to systems like this, or would ever consider making a change like that to their machine. So even without liability-type problems, who is your target market, for all the work that would be required to develop and market kits? A handful of enthusiasts trying to combine features to make their ideal hybrid machine? Briggs would probably lose less money by just taking a handful of it and lighting it on fire



True.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

The ability to drop a gear on the impeller is clearly beneficial on a Disk drive system. And I think that simplicity had this intention, when not following suit with competitors that offer hydro transmissions. My Honda has a hydro, and I can manage engine load without changing gears, and always have the right gear for any given snow condition.

My primary interest in the power boost system is for my Simplicity 860se that I bought as a project. I don’t know that a two ratio drive pulley would be of certain benefit on my HSS. But I do think it would great on the 860.

With a standard disk drive, you can start in say 3rd gear go through the regular snow, hit the EOD pile and never leave 3rd. Let the power boost pulley spread and torque through the pile, turn around, and repeat. 

I would love to test something like it on my Honda but that would be tricky. For starters Hondas snow engines use metric PTO diameters and the GX390 does not have a 1” shaft like most large CC snow engines. The millimeter smaller PTO would require a very thin conversion shim, not impossible, but tricky.

The HSS1332 pulley assembly I’m using has 3.5” auger drive while the HSS928 assembly uses a 3.3” auger drive. If thoeritically I made something that works, I would want to start with 3.5” and have it reduce to something like 3.25”. I think high impeller speeds have been designed into the efficiency and throughput of these machines from the impeller profile to the housing shape and area of the exit. It’d be pretty darn cool to have a functioning prototype to test...Just Because...

I enjoy riffing about possible Improvements, and the hybridization of effective designs. Thank you for Being open minded and approaching with scientific thought.

Science is everything, and everything is science.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

It's not two ratios, it's an infinite ratio based on load, like a CVT


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

jsup said:


> Any suggestions on how to make sure it's 1 engine revolution? That's the issue I'm having trouble visualizing. If I pull the cord, how do I know when I traveled 1 revolution.


Remove the belt guard, mark the engine pulley and watch . . .


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

jsup said:


> It's not two ratios, it's an infinite ratio based on load, like a CVT


I gotcha, technically variable between the minimum and maximum ratios.

In practice, I suspect it is operating in min or max with little in between.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

jsup said:


> Any suggestions on how to make sure it's 1 engine revolution? That's the issue I'm having trouble visualizing. If I pull the cord, how do I know when I traveled 1 revolution.
> 
> 
> I can lock down the auger control handle with a zip tie. No problem. I have a 15 year old who can pull the cord, but how do I know? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> ...













A larger pulley would require more power, right? No it makes it feel like you have more power wait you dont know what that feels like let me help you out it made my 12.75 ft lbs hm80 feel like my 17.5 ft lbs 1332 blower like i said clears better throws farther chews better (not need more power)


And adding power because of the larger pulley, kinda negates the point of having more power. Do I have that right? Nope you dont 



back to your pull cord for 1 revolution very interested


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

tadawson said:


> Remove the belt guard, mark the engine pulley and watch . . .



Sigh....so simple. Where's 33 woody, I'm suffering from his affliction. Or was it Jlawarence? It's getting worse. :smile_big:


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

drmerdp said:


> The ability to drop a gear on the impeller is clearly beneficial on a Disk drive system. And I think that simplicity had this intention, when not following suit with competitors that offer hydro transmissions. My Honda has a hydro, and I can manage engine load without changing gears, and always have the right gear for any given snow condition.



In the lower end models, Simplicity does have hydro trans.


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## Dag Johnsen (Dec 24, 2018)

*snowblowing*



drmerdp said:


> I gotcha, technically variable between the minimum and maximum rations.
> 
> In practice, I suspect it is operating in min or max with little in between.


 
I really enjoyed you post #41. No question you have done Your share of snowblowing:goodjob:
You mention in Your post reducing the size of the impeller from 3,5"to 3,25".
I suspect the Power Boost system has an effect much larger than that. I would like to know the difference between the max and minimum ratio within the Power Boost system.
Like you say, you suspect in practice it is the Maximum and minimum that will be effective. I cannot say for sure what is reality, but anyway it is the variation that is the good thing no matter what. 
Too bad there is no snowstorms in the weatherforecasts:wink2:


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

jsup said:


> A larger pulley would require more power, right? And adding power because of the larger pulley, kinda negates the point of having more power. Do I have that right?


Let's assume the load from the snow on the augers & impeller doesn't change. 

Using a larger pulley on the engine will require more torque from the engine, to supply the same output torque to the augers & impeller. To make the analogy, you're now driving with your car in 2nd gear, vs 1st, but keeping the engine RPM the same. The larger engine pulley is a "higher gear" than a smaller pulley, so the same engine RPM will be spinning the augers faster, but it sacrifices output torque to the augers & impeller, as the trade-off. 

If you need to maintain the same output torque to the augers & impeller, the engine must now supply more torque, when using a larger pulley. 

Typically, if you speed up a pump, it will require more power. Since the larger pulley is now speeding up the augers & impeller (the impeller being a pump), they're doing more work per second, and throwing the snow farther, so this will require more power. 

Does this help with your question? I'm not quite sure how to interpret the second part, "And adding power because of the larger pulley, kinda negates the point of having more power."


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> Let's assume the load from the snow on the augers & impeller doesn't change.
> 
> Using a larger pulley on the engine will require more torque from the engine, to supply the same output torque to the augers & impeller. To make the analogy, you're now driving with your car in 2nd gear, vs 1st, but keeping the engine RPM the same. The larger engine pulley is a "higher gear" than a smaller pulley, so the same engine RPM will be spinning the augers faster, but it sacrifices output torque to the augers & impeller, as the trade-off.
> 
> ...



It was rhetorical, but thanks for the great write up. 



As to the second part, as you point out the trade off of tq vs RPM. My point is as you said, there's a trade off, so to make all things equal, keep the RPM in the same range with a larger pulley, would require more torque of a bigger engine to do the same work


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## guybb3 (Jan 31, 2014)

With all due respect to everyone here, and I mean that, I would rather have a larger engine and overspeed the pulley. Then I can use my brain as a clutch and slow down my forward motion when I am putting more snow into my machine than it can handle. I'm an engineer so I like gadgets but I also like the more power than you need theory and I also like simpler is better.


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## Dag Johnsen (Dec 24, 2018)

*what if you are already in 1st. gear?*



guybb3 said:


> With all due respect to everyone here, and I mean that, I would rather have a larger engine and overspeed the pulley. Then I can use my brain as a clutch and slow down my forward motion when I am putting more snow into my machine than it can handle. I'm an engineer so I like gadgets but I also like the more power than you need theory and I also like simpler is better.


what if you are already in 1st. gear? It is in those situations I really think the Power Boost is at it`s best. When you are cleaning up areas with obsene amounts of packed snow.


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## guybb3 (Jan 31, 2014)

Dag Johnsen said:


> what if you are already in 1st. gear? It is in those situations I really think the Power Boost is at it`s best. When you are cleaning up areas with obsene amounts of packed snow.


Fair question. The only problem I have is my unit riding up on the EOD snow. After I add a weight kit (I'm thinking a slice of used plow edge)inside the top of the bucket, I'll let you know. Right now I don't have any situations where the amount of snow I have is overwhelming the machine.


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## Dag Johnsen (Dec 24, 2018)

*video*



guybb3 said:


> Fair question. The only problem I have is my unit riding up on the EOD snow. After I add a weight kit (I'm thinking a slice of used plow edge)inside the top of the bucket, I'll let you know. Right now I don't have any situations where the amount of snow I have is overwhelming the machine.



Here is a video, look from 26 Seconds. The decrease of diameter is quite a lot so must have a good torque increase.
https://www.simplicitymfg.com/na/en_us/support/videos/browse/simplicity-power-boost.html


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

guybb3 said:


> With all due respect to everyone here, and I mean that, I would rather have a larger engine and overspeed the pulley. I'm an engineer so I like gadgets but I also like the more power than you need theory and I also like simpler is better.



As an engineer surely there must be a limit as to how much you can over-speed a bronze wheel and worm. Since about the dawn of snowblowers input shaft speeds have been held to a very tight RPM range across all manufacturers, why would you think that is? Might very well be the engineers' who design these know a ceiling, I don't know but could be maybe.:nerd:


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## guybb3 (Jan 31, 2014)

DriverRider said:


> As an engineer surely there must be a limit as to how much you can over-speed a bronze wheel and worm. Since about the dawn of snowblowers input shaft speeds have been held to a very tight RPM range across all manufacturers, why would you think that is? Might very well be the engineers' who design these know a ceiling, I don't know but could be maybe.:nerd:


I'm talking about a 10% or so speed increase. If the TORO can't take that, it's engineered a little too close to claymore land.:surprise:


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Not sure on a blower, but a lot of things where human safety is involved are required to be at least 3x or 5x stronger than expected working load, and to consider rust, stress and aging. Probably not a great idea to push it too far though, if for no other reason than the inability to go after the mfg. if you get hurt and it was over spec.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

In the case of blowers, I expect it's unlikely someone would get hurt by a failure. Most likely would be failed auger gearbox gears and/or bushings, I'd imagine. Using the correct gearbox lube, and amount, probably becomes even more important, if speeding up that system.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

True, but then again, the regulatory pukes may not see it that way . . . Who knows what standards they need to build to (but I suspect the same as for mowers and other power equipment . . . ).


I was more thinking of really crap design, salt, rust, and potentially chucking an impeller blade or something along those lines . . . Unlikely, but not impossible . . . especially considering how oblivious to odd noised most end users are!


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Oh, sorry. I was thinking more in terms of user modifications, people speeding up their impellers. Not the manufacturer going to higher speeds.


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## Dag Johnsen (Dec 24, 2018)

*Heavy duty*



DriverRider said:


> As an engineer surely there must be a limit as to how much you can over-speed a bronze wheel and worm. Since about the dawn of snowblowers input shaft speeds have been held to a very tight RPM range across all manufacturers, why would you think that is? Might very well be the engineers' who design these know a ceiling, I don't know but could be maybe.:nerd:


 
This was Heavy duty snowblowing With powerboost. Using 1st. gir going straight thru with no slipping, monster snowchains is why.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I just came across this old thread today...I can't believe I missed it last year. I just picked up a Simplicity 870 last week, and going through it, noticed it has the Powerboost pulley....YIPPEE! It seems frozen so today's project is PB blast and lubricant. I also don't see what takes up the belt slack, except for the travel of the idler pulley, so I'm going with a new auger belt in case this one has stretched a little. I'm thinking if this system really gives an advantage, it should be easy to retrofit on most any blower if the distance between the two belts on the engine shaft allows installation of the pulley, and the idler has enough travel.....now suppose the 8 Tec becomes a beast with this system, now transplant an OHV Tec or a 414 on the Simplicity and keep the powerboost....wow.....


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

I'm curious about what lubricant Simplicity recommends for their torque-sensing pulley. The torque-sensing pulley-half slides axially along the shaft and it's subject to a high load. 

I would think something like an extreme-pressure (EP) grease would be applicable and Googled molybdenum disulfide (moly) grease to learn that it's generally used for high pressure metal-sliding-against metal situations.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Well the good news is my Powerboost pulley wasn't frozen...the bad news is I broke it finding out...new part is $30.....just kick me......impeller kit going on tomorrow while I wait for the pulley half.


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## Town (Jan 31, 2015)

cranman said:


> Well the good news is my Powerboost pulley wasn't frozen...the bad news is I broke it finding out...new part is $30.....just kick me......impeller kit going on tomorrow while I wait for the pulley half.


Were you able to measure the outside pulley diameter? And spread the pulley to where a belt would sit under load and measure the diameter of the pulley at that point? One would need the impeller pulley diameter too to calculate impeller rpm over the power boost range.

Just curious.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

No I didn't get technical....but I'm guessing the diameter is about 2.75 at the highest and 1.25at the lowest....just rough estimate...


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