# toro 724



## crazzywolfie

picked up a Toro 724 today for free and possibly need some advise. not sure exactly what to do with it. i just finished swapping motors and getting my Ariens snow blower running and working for the year. too cold out to really wrench on it. was thinking about at least trying to get it running. i forget whether my brother in law said it ran or not. i figure if i keep it i may end up picking up a newer more reliable Honda clone motor. i think i was also told i the impeller shaft bearing is bad. any recommendation on the best place to look to get one or possibly a part number? also anyone know what shade of red they are from the factory. been thinking that if i keep it i will want to make it look pretty and stock. don't really care much for the way it is currently painted. 
the only shot i currently have of the thing. it is heavy


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## 43128

Toro 421 521 524 824 Impeller Shaft Bearing Bushing 63 3450 26 6100 12 8789 | eBay

13.25 for the bushing on ebay, you will love the honda clone

this honda clone retails for about 130 new
6 5HP Horizontal Shaft Gas Engine Go Cart Generator Log Splitter 4 Stroke New | eBay

i recommend this one because every single genuine honda part fits, unlike the predator where the bore, stroke, and flywheel are different


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## crazzywolfie

thanks. i might try pricing out the bushing at the local stores first. seems most of those have like a $20 shipping charge to Canada.

i am not sure what motor i might put on it. i may end up just putting whatever engine i catch on sale at the time on it. i currently got a princess auto powerfist engine on my Ariens that i picked up on sale for $135 after taxes. couple months back the local store had a kohler engine on sale for $115 after taxes. considered picking one up but decided not to because i didn't really need it. wasn't expecting to pick up a 3rd snow blower. 
here is a pic of my Ariens snow blower. it was pretty clean. i did a few touch ups but nothing major


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## detdrbuzzard

using the modle and serial number go on toro's website and download the owners manual


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## 43128

by the way that engines not original, thats an hm80, the original would have been an hh70 i think, the old tecumseh probably threw its rod like they all do


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## detdrbuzzard

i forgot about the paint question so here goes. toro red came on two shades of red and you can still get them through ebay or a toro dealer but i've only seen them in a rattle can


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## crazzywolfie

thanks. i am pretty sure my BIL said the engine had been replaced since it says 8hp and should be 7hp. i think i was also told the electric start don't work because it is the wrong starter for the engine.

i might see about trying to find the model number and serial so that i know how to tear the thing apart. i am not even sure if i will paint it an exact toro red. i might end up settling for close enough as long as it is a nice red paint.


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## 43128

rustoleum candy apple red is pretty close and readily available


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## UNDERTAKER

that AIN'T a bad blue though.


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## crazzywolfie

the blue isn't bad other than the fact rust is coming through all over the place. i personally preffer having the snow blower a brighter color. i don't know if i will do the candy apple red. i was possibly thinking of using engine enamel paint which kind of limits my selection but the ford red look pretty good. i like the engine enamel. the stuff always seem to go on pretty good and is oil and gas resistant.


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## Grunt

crazzywolfie said:


> thanks. i am pretty sure my BIL said the engine had been replaced since it says 8hp and should be 7hp. i think i was also told the electric start don't work because it is the wrong starter for the engine.
> 
> i might see about trying to find the model number and serial so that i know how to tear the thing apart. i am not even sure if i will paint it an exact toro red. i might end up settling for close enough as long as it is a nice red paint.


Here is a link to the Toro two stage service manual that Shryp was so kind to post. A lot of good info for the tear down.

http://shryp.ashendust.com/Snowblowers/2stagdrv.pdf


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## Kiss4aFrog

I bought a fixer upper that ate belts and this is what I found on it.


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## crazzywolfie

thanks. don't think that would be the issue with this one. the blower looks like it is pretty old. nothing too bad. just old and worn out plus if there was any issues like that on any of my snow blowers i would just weld them up but i am cheap. i was sitting on the fence about fixing up the Ariens after i realized i would have to replace the motor. still not sure whether it was a good idea or not but since it is so clean i am pretty sure i could always get my money back out of it if i decided it don't work that good. 



Grunt said:


> Here is a link to the Toro two stage service manual that Shryp was so kind to post. A lot of good info for the tear down.
> 
> http://shryp.ashendust.com/Snowblowers/2stagdrv.pdf


thanks. i still haven't had a chance to pull the exact model number. the weather around here has been pretty bad the roads are all ice.


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## crazzywolfie

here is another pic of it.


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## Kiss4aFrog

crazzywolfie said:


> thanks. don't think that would be the issue with this one.


Thought it might be worth checking. Why do you think it is/was eating belts ??


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## crazzywolfie

i don't think it is eating belts. i never said it was. i was just told by my BIL that the impeller shaft needs a new bearing. at this point in time i am just having to take his word for it until i have a chance to look into it myself. its not like i really need the snow blower but i am not going to just let the old beast be sent off to scrap because it needs a little TLC.


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## Kiss4aFrog

Well, I guess I'm a living example that crack doesn't smoke itself. I must have goofed when I cut and pasted as you didn't mention anything about it eating belts. I see why you're confused, now I am and I'm wondering what I posted to the thread that was about the guy with the machine eating belts


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## db9938

Ah, I'd getting running, and then worry about the paint. It's looks pretty solid from the pics you've posted.


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## crazzywolfie

it does seem pretty solid. it was pretty heavy and a bit difficult to load into the back of my ramcharger but i guess having ramps would have helped but i was really not planning on picking up a snow blower originally when i was visiting.


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## crazzywolfie

i was wondering if it is possible to tell if the impeller shaft bushing is good or bad by just lifting up and down on the impeller shaft in the bucket? the only reason i ask is because i was and it seemed fairly solid. the only thing that got my looking at it was there as some drips under the auger gear box on the card board in my vehicle and a bit of what looks like gear oil on the bottom of the gearbox. my brother in law said it was making noise and thought it was the impeller bushing but now i am starting to think otherwise. the only thing that is really stopping me from tearing this thing apart is lack of a work area. my main work area is outside and the weather has not been very nice lately.


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## Kiss4aFrog

It would have to be near failure if you could tell with it installed. You need to be able to spin it to feel if it's rough or noisy.


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## 43128

i like to grab it by the impeller pulley, that is the best way


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## crazzywolfie

i just figure if it was bad enough to be making noise it would probably be fairly sloppy. i have not spun the impeller yet so i don't know how well it spins. i just figure if the gear box is dripping it has probably been leaking for a while and might have been run low on oil or something.


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## crazzywolfie

this has kind of got me thinking. i was talking with my brother in law a about the auger gear box and he said he changed the oil in it like a year or so ago and when he did he used differential oil. is that what your suppose to use? only reason i ask is most of the video's on youtube show the auger gearboxes being put back together with low temp grease.


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## Kiss4aFrog

Most people recommend an 80-90 gear lube or 00 grease. 00 is almost an oil. Even low temp grease is still a little too solid to move around and lube properly in most peoples opinion.
You can tell from the bottle 00 comes in that it flows well. I've ordered it at Oreilly auto parts and get it next day.


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## crazzywolfie

i was just reading that some gear oils eat away at the brass gear inside the gear box and i am not exactly sure what is inside the gearboxes yet. i just thought since i seen so many video's with people doing it it must work. i was also reading that gear oil might not really be right for the job since gears in an axle are put under different stress's than gears in auger gear box. i might try looking for some 00 grease but i have a feeling that might be harder to come by. i guess i will have to wait till i get it apart to see. my BIL said he has never had the auger apart so hopefully everything comes apart smoothly.


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## micah68kj

43128 said:


> by the way that engines not original, thats an hm80, the original would have been an hh70 i think, the old tecumseh probably threw its rod like they all do


I beg to differ. They don't all throw their rods.


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## 43128

well a good 75% of tecumsehs i have seen throw their rods, even with good maintenance


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## micah68kj

Hmmm... I've owned at least a dozen Tecumseh engines and never had one of them fail. I currently have Four of them and not a broken rod in the bunch. So, I'll have to say that 100% of the Tecumseh's I've seen are good.


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## Motor City

crazzywolfie said:


> i was just reading that some gear oils eat away at the brass gear inside the gear box and i am not exactly sure what is inside the gearboxes yet. i just thought since i seen so many video's with people doing it it must work. i was also reading that gear oil might not really be right for the job since gears in an axle are put under different stress's than gears in auger gear box. i might try looking for some 00 grease but i have a feeling that might be harder to come by. i guess i will have to wait till i get it apart to see. my BIL said he has never had the auger apart so hopefully everything comes apart smoothly.


The Gear Lube has to be GL-4 rated, to be compatible with yellow metals.


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## lebenfitti

43128 said:


> well a good 75% of tecumsehs i have seen throw their rods, even with good maintenance


 Really? This statement isn't embellished even a little bit?


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## 43128

not really, once they started mass producing engines, especially the snow kings like the one originally used on the blower, the quality went down a lot


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## jeepguy03

43128 said:


> not really, once they started mass producing engines, especially the snow kings like the one originally used on the blower, the quality went down a lot


They only throw rods if you don't know how to maintain them. Meaning keep the oil level FULL, and keep them from being over revved.

81.76% of the engines I see have low oil.


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## HJames

jeepguy03 said:


> 43128 said:
> 
> 
> 
> not really, once they started mass producing engines, especially the snow kings like the one originally used on the blower, the quality went down a lot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They only throw rods if you don't know how to maintain them. Meaning keep the oil level FULL, and keep them from being over revved.
> 
> 81.76% of the engines I see have low oil.
Click to expand...


The problem is that if they have been run with low oil even just once, the damage is done and the engine is a ticking time bomb. It may run for a couple days, weeks, months but it will throw its rod. 75% is well over stated, after quite a bit of web research(putting the cart racers aside) I would put the number at 1 in 20, which also coincides with my human idiot ratio.


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## crazzywolfie

i don't care about the engine or if it will blow a rod or not yet so can you guys stop crouding up my thread withyour banter. 


Motor City said:


> The Gear Lube has to be GL-4 rated, to be compatible with yellow metals.


that is what i was reading but i don't think my bother in law would have know that when he was changing the oil so there is just as much of chance that he used the wrong oil. most of the stuff i am finding seems to say both GL-4 and GL-5 compatable. would that be the same?


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## HJames

crazzywolfie said:


> i was wondering if it is possible to tell if the impeller shaft bushing is good or bad by just lifting up and down on the impeller shaft in the bucket? the only reason i ask is because i was and it seemed fairly solid. the only thing that got my looking at it was there as some drips under the auger gear box on the card board in my vehicle and a bit of what looks like gear oil on the bottom of the gearbox. my brother in law said it was making noise and thought it was the impeller bushing but now i am starting to think otherwise. the only thing that is really stopping me from tearing this thing apart is lack of a work area. my main work area is outside and the weather has not been very nice lately.


I would try 90w non-synthetic gear oil and run it to see if it still leaks. If your BIL used synthetic , that is likely the cause of the leak. If it still leaks with non- synthetic then you know you have bad seals. Some people will replace the gear oil with grease to avoid leaks, but it is not as effective in the gear box as an oil bath.


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## crazzywolfie

i figure since it is leaking it is probably a good idea to probably reseal the gear box anyway just so it can be given a once over. i was almost wondering if grease might be a bit better just because of how high up the gears are compared to the hole in the case is to add oil.


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## HJames

I see your concern...as long as the bottom of the gear passes through the gear oil you will maintain lubrication of all parts. The grease will harden over time and become less effective kind of like the grease in the ball joints of a car. If you feel more comfortable with grease it will work, you'll just need to break it down every few years and replace the grease


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## RoyP

43128 said:


> by the way that engines not original, thats an hm80, the original would have been an hh70 i think, the old tecumseh probably threw its rod like they all do



I ran a 5.5 HP Tecumseh on my Wheelhorse snowblower from 1969 (purchased new) until this fall/winter 2014 when I sold it. Never burned oil, never had a problem, other then I did replace the carb.


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## crazzywolfie

HJames said:


> I see your concern...as long as the bottom of the gear passes through the gear oil you will maintain lubrication of all parts. The grease will harden over time and become less effective kind of like the grease in the ball joints of a car. If you feel more comfortable with grease it will work, you'll just need to break it down every few years and replace the grease


i guess i will see when i get it open.


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## crazzywolfie

i got to say mt BIL is definitely no small engines mechanic. he said this thing would probably need a new carb because there was a hole in the carb that was leaking gas and he jb welded the hole. it seem that he jb welded over the vent hole fore the carb so there must have been a problem else ware with the carb. i managed to pop the jbweld off and things look fine. the carb don't look in bad shape overall. you can tell he ran gas laced with ethanol since there is green crap everywhere but he at least drained it so it is not really the stuck on green crap. i am going to give the carb a rinse out and then the gas tank and then i will throw it all back together and see if it runs.


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## crazzywolfie

i guess this is what happens when you leave things till there is snow on the ground to start working on them. i put the carb back together, cleaned the tank/fuel lines and put it back together. put some fuel in it and go to fire it up and got nothing. it seems to have a very weak spark. i could barely feel it with my finger when i was pulling it over. i have been shocked by enough coils to know it should have more kick than it did lol.


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## classiccat

crazzywolfie said:


> i guess this is what happens when you leave things till there is snow on the ground to start working on them. i put the carb back together, cleaned the tank/fuel lines and put it back together. put some fuel in it and go to fire it up and got nothing. it seems to have a very weak spark. i could barely feel it with my finger when i was pulling it over. i have been shocked by enough coils to know it should have more kick than it did lol.


 try checking with a gap tester.

rpms are the name of the game. 

did you use the starter or recoil?


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## crazzywolfie

i don't think a gap tester would have told me much other than i got super weak spark if it detected it at all. i barely felt anything at all when i was checking for spark and i know i should have got a good little zap or 2.

i used the recoil start. i was told the electric start that is on the engine is the wrong one for the engine or something like that. i guess i also get to check that out when i have the covers off.


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## Kiss4aFrog

I think the starter you need is: HM80 takes a 33329


OEM Replacement : Tecumseh 33329, Tecumseh 33329A, Tecumseh 33329B, Tecumseh 33329C, Tecumseh 33329D, Tecumseh 33329E, Tecumseh 37000
They might have put the old starter off the 7hp engine on it and that's likely a 33328 and they found out it didn't work right.

Can you see any part numbers on it


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## crazzywolfie

i didn't see any part numbers on it but i think since it says toro on the one end cap they probably use the starter off the old engine. i was playing with things and think i cam make it work since it seems to mess with the teath on the flywheel pretty good. the only think is it is rickety. it is not really bolted down properly so if someone tried using it as is it definitely would not work. i think if it is setup and space properly it would work. 

now back to my spark issue. i started taking stuff further apart and i am guessing the engine has points since the coil wire goes in behind the flywheel. i was also watching video on youtube that show pretty similar setup. oh the fun.


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## Grunt

crazzywolfie said:


> i didn't see any part numbers on it but i think since it says toro on the one end cap they probably use the starter off the old engine. i was playing with things and think i cam make it work since it seems to mess with the teath on the flywheel pretty good. the only think is it is rickety. it is not really bolted down properly so if someone tried using it as is it definitely would not work. i think if it is setup and space properly it would work.
> 
> now back to my spark issue. i started taking stuff further apart and i am guessing the engine has points since the coil wire goes in behind the flywheel. i was also watching video on youtube that show pretty similar setup. oh the fun.


Maybe I missed it in your posts, but I never seen the engine numbers on top of the recoil shroud near the spark plug posted. YOUR numbers will tell us exactly what you are working on. Besides the starter being wrong, I have never seen older Tecumseh's with a finned plastic flywheel. It looks like a flywheel off a Briggs lawn mower.Your blower has a safety switch on the right handle bar that goes to a little round module on the engine below the carb. Disconnect the wire from the coil that goes to the carb or safety switch and check again for spark. It could be a points problem, but try to eliminate the obvious first.


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## crazzywolfie

there is a key on the main control but i unplugged it after i discovered i wasn't getting any spark. still had no spark. the number on top of the shroud is hm80-155255j

i managed to pop the flywheel off with very little effort but it looked fairly clean. that is about as far as i got before i got distracted.


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## 43128

all of the older hm80s through hm100s that i have seen with points have a flywheel with a removable plastic fan


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## Grunt

43128 said:


> all of the older hm80s through hm100s that i have seen with points have a flywheel with a removable plastic fan


Thank you 43128, I had never seen one before, only cast iron.  I learned something NEW today.


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## crazzywolfie

IT'S ALIVE! lol. i was going to wait till tomorrow to check the points but decided to do it today. the gap on the points was too small. i don't have feeler gauges since the store didn't have them in stock but i did have paper and a digital caliper. got the paper folded to .021 which i figure had to be close enough. everything was nice and fairly clean for an engine as old as it is. the only thing that was kind of bothering me was the sparks or ambers coming out the muffler. i have a feeling it might be from carbon build up i don't know. don't really know. i am pretty sure i still need to adjust the carb some more but at least i know it runs.


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## 43128

the sparks are caused by a leaking exhaust valve. you will have to lap them and take a bit of material off the stem


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## crazzywolfie

ugh. that means i would have to pull the head. don't really want to do that. it did seem to get a bit better after running for a bit. not as much was coming out the muffler. it was more so worst when i first fired it up. any way to clean it out without pulling the head?


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## suspicionofignorance2

Did you file or sand the points to nice clean metal? Believe that's more important than the gap ...Do a quick compression test if you have the gauge...should show whether you need to remove the head or not...


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## 43128

you will have to pull the head to lap/adjust the valves


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## crazzywolfie

no i didn't sand the points. they looked fairly clean just like everything else on this engine. compression test was showing 100psi on a cold engine.


43128 said:


> you will have to pull the head to lap/adjust the valves


i know. i just hope i don't have to.


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## classiccat

Congrats on getting it running! 

Maybe try a decarb to avoid pulling the head for now? 

Pulling the head for valve work (and thorough decarb) is straightforward...as long as the head bolts cooperate.


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## crazzywolfie

thanks. with the way everything has been on this engine i think the head would come off with little to no effort. the engine has been fairly clean so far. maybe i might try topping up the oil and running it for an hour or 2 tomorrow and see if it helps clean things out. i got to take a look at the throttle anyway. it was working when i first fired it up but stopped once it warmed up.


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## detdrbuzzard

its alive!! congrats crazywolfie


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## crazzywolfie

thanks. it seemed to be running pretty good today other than the throttle doing nothing after it is running for a minute. couldn't quite figure that out. might try taking the carb off and cleaning it again at some point. something must not be quite right.


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## crazzywolfie

i was talking with my brother in law over Christmas when he was down and he said he had pulled the head at one point and cleaned carbon out. i don't know if it is true or not but i would hope it is. he did say it seems to be running better but it is still having issues with the throttle not working when warm which he knew about but didn't mention. what would cause something like that? i can see the throttle cable mover the lever on the engine housing.


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## crazzywolfie

ok i think i might have found the issue. i think the gasket between the carb and intake is leaking. when i would spray around that area with ether it would bog down and i also noticed the throttle is staying closed while it is running at operating rpm. took the carb off and throttle moves nice and easy


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## suspicionofignorance2

Great that you have solved 724 problems....Any one have comment on "saving " the impeller Bearing...? Any way to get a few drops of oil in it, for some longevity.?? Especially on the older machines..


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## UNDERTAKER

suspicionofignorance2 said:


> Great that you have solved 724 problems....Any one have comment on "saving " the impeller Bearing...? Any way to get a few drops of oil in it, for some longevity.?? Especially on the older machines..


 most of those bearing are either sealed. or bronze bushing that DO NOT require oil in them.


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## crazzywolfie

i was thinking about trying to spray some white lithium grease on it but i have a feeling it won't stay on there long. when my BIL was down he said he couldn't hear the noise but he was thinking that maybe water or moisture was getting in the bushing since when he was don't he would store it in a garage where most of the snow on it would melt and maybe seep in. i still haven't pulled the cover even tho it is on the list along with removing that weight someone put on the bucket. the edges of the belt cover are inside the body instead of outside the body so it is possible water might be getting in there.


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## crazzywolfie

ok i tried a new gasket and i thought it solve my issue for a minute or 2 but now it is back to the way it was. now i was wondering what peoples thoughts were on making a gasket out of cereal box material?


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## db9938

crazzywolfie said:


> ok i tried a new gasket and i thought it solve my issue for a minute or 2 but now it is back to the way it was. now i was wondering what peoples thoughts were on making a gasket out of cereal box material?


Just by my eyeball, I think they are on the thick side. I've made them from pop boxes, and manila folders, with reasonable success. 

I have also found that cereal boxes tend to have a looser fiber, and tends to fray out easier, then the other mentioned materials.


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## crazzywolfie

ok. i will see what i can come up with. i just figure if i have to keep buying more gaskets to get this to seal up it will get expensive. the gasket i got today looks pretty thin compared to the one i removed and it seemed like it work for a short time and quit or maybe there is something wrong with the carb.


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## db9938

This might be a cheaper, and permanent solution:

Plumbshop Sheet Gasket Assortment | Canadian Tire


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## crazzywolfie

there is none of that stuff in stock stock at the local store


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## crazzywolfie

so anyone got any advise on how to get things to seal the gasket between the carb and intake? even the home made gaskets are not having much luck sealing things up fully. i am almost temped to wait and see about trying to get a new engine on sale. the stock engine seems to be a pig on gas and i haven't even moved any snow yet. burnt over a tank of gas so far just trying to get it to run right.


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## Kiss4aFrog

You could always try a little RTV on the gasket.

http://www.autozone.com/sealants-gl...hi-temp-rtv-silicone-gasket-maker/526939_0_0/


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## crazzywolfie

i was thinking about trying some. i just wish i tried it yesterday since it was above freezing.


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## classiccat

crazzywolfie said:


> so anyone got any advise on how to get things to seal the gasket between the carb and intake? even the home made gaskets are not having much luck sealing things up fully. i am almost temped to wait and see about trying to get a new engine on sale. the stock engine seems to be a pig on gas and i haven't even moved any snow yet. burnt over a tank of gas so far just trying to get it to run right.


that's usually a straightforward seal to make using a normal dry gasket. be careful what you install here because it could become dislodged and get sucked-in to the engine.

What I would do is:
* inspect the carb / intake surfaces for deep gouges/scratches and/or old gasket residue.
-- if you find deep scratches, you can try to dress them out with emery cloth & a piece of glass (I use an old boat windshield)...moving the part in a figure-8 pattern.
-- if you find residue, carefully scrape it off using a razor held ~ perpendicular to the surface. keep the residue wet with a solvent (I use denatured alcohol). Watch the shavings..that you're not removing metal:


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## crazzywolfie

there is no scratches, gouges or gasket residue. it seams to keep leaking at the bottom of the gasket every time even when i tried using 2 gasket.


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## classiccat

crazzywolfie said:


> there is no scratches, gouges or gasket residue. it seams to keep leaking at the bottom of the gasket every time even when i tried using 2 gasket.


Maybe someone used a flap-disc (or worse) to clean those surfaces...and made the metal uneven?? 

Try taking both the intake and the carb, hold them up to the light and place a straight-edge on them. If you see more light than below (_2 mils on an old evinrude adapter plate_), then dress the surfaces to knock-down any high-spots.


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## Kiss4aFrog

OR, lay a piece of fine sandpaper down on a flat surface, table top, workbench ... and then with mild pressure rotate the part on the sandpaper and then inspect to see if it's hitting the part evenly or if you have sanded and un-sanded areas indicating the mating surface is uneven.


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## crazzywolfie

i started going the RTV route. i had some sitting around anyway. i am hoping it works. if not then i might try the other way.


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## classiccat

My apologies if I wasn't clear. ^^^ thats what I call dressing a surface.


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## classiccat

Grrr... kafs response is dressing a surface...not coating with rtv. Sorry guys...using my phone.


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## crazzywolfie

i only put on a thin layer of RTV and i let it sit for a bit before installing so that it would start drying. i know the leak was not super bad but enough that the engine seemed to run at operating speed even with the throttle closed.


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## crazzywolfie

well i think i am done trying to deal with this engine. topped up the gas tank and go to fire it up and apparently there is a crack in the top of the gas tank. i don't remember it being there when i cleaned it. it still is also not running right. i also think the auger belt might be burned up or burning up since the auger is no longer moving and i can smell a bit of rubber burning. i think it might just end up letting it sit till next year and hope i catch a engine on sale between now and then.


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## classiccat

Bummer there crazzywolfe!

You've made a lot of progress on this machine so far...and you can't beat the price you paid! 

maybe you need a little break from it....we'll be here when you get back to it!


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## crazzywolfie

i haven't made as much progress as i would have liked but i guess i don't have a whole lot into it yet other than time. almost tempted to just replace the auger cable on my mtd single stage machine and run with it for the rest of the winter. it got me through last winter and still runs good. just the cable is bad.


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