# Is 3 stage worth the extra money?



## James972 (Feb 5, 2016)

Does anyone have the definitive answer on this? Thanks


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## caddydaddy (Dec 10, 2014)

From what I've read, owners say it does help with the end of driveway piles. Consumer Reports said the same thing.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to the forum James972


"definitive answer", No.

Most, almost all the owners say they really like them. There are a couple owners who have voiced their displeasure with their 3X machines. Just a couple.


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## Bob Cat (Jul 15, 2014)

If I paid extra for this feature I would probably say it works great because l wouldn't want to admit that I got sucked in to a marketing gimmick.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

If I had the choice between a standard 2 stage and one of the new "3 stage" models..
And all other specs were identical..
And the 3 stage cost a bit less than the 2 stage.
I would buy the 2 stage.

Scot


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

sscotsman said:


> If I had the choice between a standard 2 stage and one of the new "3 stage" models..
> And all other specs were identical..
> And the 3 stage cost a bit less than the 2 stage.
> I would buy the 2 stage.
> ...


I got a chuckle out of this  

I do feel the same way, but to be frank, I'm not shopping for a new machine, so I haven't researched the new "3-stage" machines. I'm admittedly skeptical, it seems rather like a gimmick to me. But I haven't used one, it's entirely possible that it's actually a big help. Not everything new/different is bad.


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## cansnow1 (Jan 6, 2016)

sscotsman said:


> If I had the choice between a standard 2 stage and one of the new "3 stage" models..
> And all other specs were identical..
> And the 3 stage cost a bit less than the 2 stage.
> I would buy the 2 stage.
> ...


HaHaHa ... I had to read it a couple of times until I laughed out loud.


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## dodgetrucker (Jan 15, 2016)

the only 3 stage machine I'd consider would be along the lines of a late 70's Sears "Drift Breaker" with the 2nd, smaller, auger screw that runs above and parallel to the main auger. I have looked at a few modern "3 stage" machines in the stores and I'd think this style of 3rd stage would only impede the main auger from digging in.... not help. Not to mention the strong feel I had of how "cheaply built" they appear to be.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

when other manufactures start making this new style of three stage machines i'll start looking at them


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## caddydaddy (Dec 10, 2014)

Has anyone actually used a 3 stage, or are they all just trash talking it?


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

There are a few on here who own them but for some reason the silence from them is deafening. I really have no opinion on them but I feel pretty much the same as William... When other manufacturers begin producing them maybe then I'll give them a look. But, since I *NEVER* buy new it'll be a while before I ever get my hands on one. :2cents:
More on this below.


http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...n/65906-3-stage-vs-2-stage-performance-2.html

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/foru...scussion/53970-thoughts-3-stage-blower-2.html


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

caddydaddy said:


> Has anyone actually used a 3 stage, or are they all just trash talking it?


we have a few members using three stage cubs


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

I haven't used one or seen one in use. I looked at them at Lowe's and was not impressed at the sturdiness of the auger/impeller assembly (or lack thereof). Not trash talk, just observation.


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## Forcefed4door (Jan 26, 2016)

I bought one, then cancelled the order. For some reason there are a ton of bad reviews on the machine. Most notably the center auger eating sheer pins. By the amount of bad reviews it's not a coincidence. And apparently it's a major mofo to replace them


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

wdb said:


> I haven't used one or seen one in use. I looked at them at Lowe's and was not impressed at the sturdiness of the auger/impeller assembly (or lack thereof). Not trash talk, just observation.


Yep. My assessment as well. They do seem to be pretty much sheet metal, including the augers.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Amazon reviews:

http://tinyurl.com/nboj2ga


28% gave it 4 and 5 stars. (good reviews)
72% gave it 1 and 2 stars. (bad reviews)


But..only seven people have reviewed..which isnt a big sample.
So, to be fair, these results could be skewed by: "people only go online to write a review if something is wrong..if they want to complain..they dont say anything if things are fine"

but..there is also the reverse collary in reviews..where people often write reviews when something is brand-new, and they have used it only one time..and what a surprise, its totally great!  then they dont bother to update their review years later..

so taking those two factors into consideration, I believe reviews in general even out.

Scot


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

just for the record..I only trust amazon to not cherry-pick reviews.
and to allow all reviews, including "bad" reviews, and keep them online.
Its been well confirmed that they dont mess with reviews..

While other sellers might mess with reviews a bit..(Big Box's, for example)
perhaps allowing through a higher percentage of positive reviews, and finding reasons to reject more negative reviews!  ("you forgot to check that box..review rejected") I have no proof that actually happens..but it seems likely, since there are glowing reviews for things we know are junk..

If someone is trying to sell you something, they have an incentive to play-up the positive, and down-play the negative..thats the first chapter in "selling 101"

yes, amazon is also trying to sell you stuff..but people have tested them, and its well confirmed that they dont cherry pick reviews.

Scot


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## Forcefed4door (Jan 26, 2016)

I would trust amazon reviews over consumer reports. After all they rated cub cadet 3x #1 in there reviews. I do feel bad for a lot of people who went out to buy one due to that review.


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## jims94vmx (Feb 13, 2014)

Look for my video and here is a pic from the other end not seen from video.


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## jims94vmx (Feb 13, 2014)

Video now added to my signature


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Scot, reading through the Amazon reviews, the common themes I noticed are: 
- Shear pins breaking frequently. Apparently often on the 3rd-stage impeller. Some people reporting multiple pins breaking while clearing a single storm. It sounds like these are difficult to replace. 
- Chute controls finicky and prone to giving difficulty (unlatching and letting the chute move, etc). 

Neither of those are encouraging. Any performance improvement offered by the 3rd stage could rather easily be offset (or outweighed) by these sorts of issues. 

Thinking about it, the 3rd stage impeller would be spinning quite fast, I assume at the speed of the main snow-throwing impeller. It would be spinning much faster than the augers, and would be near them, so if the augers pulled in a piece of ice, for instance, it could hit the fast-moving 3rd stage impeller and stress the those shear pins. It looks like there is also a shroud behind the impeller, where things could jam. 

The normal impeller doesn't have shear pins, so throwing a piece of ice out of the chute wouldn't normally risk a shear pin on something turning at high speed. 

The 3rd stage impeller is, I assume, turning at the same speed as the normal impeller. If so, 3rd stage shear pins are presumably there to protect that impeller from getting bent if it hits something. We are accustomed to shear pins that are most obviously used to protect the auger gearbox. But the 3rd stage impeller doesn't really stress the gearbox if it jams, since it's connected to the input of the gearbox, not the output. 

One review said that he discovered there was an issue with 2013 models, and that the dealer fixed his machine, eliminating the frequent shear pins breakage. But there are also other reviews, more recently, still reporting broken pins. 

jims94vmx, have you experienced anything like in those reviews? It's not a leading/loaded question, I'm just curious about how yours has performed.


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## jims94vmx (Feb 13, 2014)

No pins broken in 2.5 seasons. The 1st season I got it was already in full snow mode....I actually tried going thru the snow/ice in my yard that was about a foot deep that had been on the ground awhile before my snow blower came in.

it was crusty enough I could walk on top. Could not go far because the metal frame kept getting caught on the hard stuff. Did not break a pin even then though. I showed the video to my local shop where I bought it and the owner even brought out the mechanic to see the fun I had! They were talking about putting it on a loop to show customers what it can do. hope that helps. not all are perfect, but I really like mine.


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## James972 (Feb 5, 2016)

dodgetrucker said:


> I'd think this style of 3rd stage would only impede the main auger from digging in.... not help. Not to mention the strong feel I had of how "cheaply built" they appear to be.


well, new accelerator or 3rd stage replaces most of main auger and works like a tunnel boring machine so the idea seems solid. It is a significant redesign and thus much more than a gimmick. Why would a manufacturer (MTD, Craftsman, Cub Cadet, Troy Built are identical as far as I know) risk it if it was not better? It seems the main advantage is that it accelerates snow directly into the impeller thus creating more pressure and force through the chute. This in theory means more snow flows through the machine with less clogging.

It is a little disconcerting to see on board storage of new auger pins. To this point I've never changed one in my life after 30 years with a 2 stage machine.

Agree, sheet metal does not look great on my Troy Build 28" 3x stage. Main impeller is welded pieces rather than bent or molded from one solid piece. And, there is huge gap between impeller and housing that some say should be fixed by do it yourselfers with hard rubber. Anybody have thoughts on this?


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## Chrysler 340 (Oct 10, 2015)

If I were in the market for a 3 stage snowthrower I'd acquire a 10/32 late 70's Sears Craftsman "Drift Breaker" with lights. I prefer the older, built like a tank, tried & true design that have worked for decades. I've looked at the newer 3 stages in stores. I wouldn't buy the first year of a product until they had a chance to work the bugs out.


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## 90trunk (Nov 30, 2013)

caddydaddy said:


> Has anyone actually used a 3 stage, or are they all just trash talking it?


Being made by MTD, it faces an uphill battle to be accepted here. Out in the real world they are selling and moving snow.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

James972 said:


> well, new accelerator or 3rd stage replaces most of main auger and works like a tunnel boring machine so the idea seems solid. It is a significant redesign and thus much more than a gimmick. Why would a manufacturer (MTD, Craftsman, Cub Cadet, Troy Built are identical as far as I know) risk it if it was not better? It seems the main advantage is that it accelerates snow directly into the impeller thus creating more pressure and force through the chute. This in theory means more snow flows through the machine with less clogging.
> 
> It is a little disconcerting to see on board storage of new auger pins. To this point I've never changed one in my life after 30 years with a 2 stage machine.
> 
> Agree, sheet metal does not look great on my Troy Build 28" 3x stage. Main impeller is welded pieces rather than bent or molded from one solid piece. And, there is huge gap between impeller and housing that some say should be fixed by do it yourselfers with hard rubber. Anybody have thoughts on this?


Impeller mod kits are popular now, if that gap is not causing freeze up and the unit is throwing far enough personally I would leave well enough alone.

I have a newer Ariens machine and when I spoke to a senior tech there he told me never to add an impeller mod kit. I didn't inquire about that when I called in but he wanted to make a point about certain mods potentially causing more harm than good, a lot of R&D goes into a quality machine and unless there is a real problem often we are better off leaving it stock. 

Additionally it is good practice to wait until the warranty has expired before doing any significant mods.

All the best.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

James972 said:


> It is a significant redesign and thus much more than a gimmick. Why would a manufacturer (MTD, Craftsman, Cub Cadet, Troy Built are identical as far as I know) risk it if it was not better?


I get what you're saying, but I don't really agree. Even if it was not actually better, it helps them differentiate themselves from the competition. Most 2-stage machines are extremely similar, in the "big picture". This 3rd stage gives them something to discuss in marketing, and to use in justifying why theirs is better. 

There are things that require a significant redesign, but don't meaningfully provide a benefit. Honda sold some cars with 4 wheel steering a while back. It was a lot of work/cost/complexity, I'm sure, but didn't seem to really do much. It didn't take off, and they stopped offering it. Despite liking Honda and their products, I would basically call 4WS a gimmick, unfortunately. 

Edit: I realized I wasn't very clear. My point is NOT that this 3rd stage is a gimmick. I can't answer that. I'll admit I'm skeptical about it, but I don't have experience with it to draw on. Instead, my point was that just because development work was done, and risk was taken, doesn't guarantee that it's NOT a gimmick, or doesn't prove that it IS meaningfully better than a traditional 2-stage. I think the best proof of that would be comparing equivalent 2-stage and 3-stage machines from the same model line, in the same storm. Unfortunately, that's a very difficult thing for normal consumers to compare, most of us don't have 2 almost-identical machines. Consumer Reports, etc, could offer a better comparison than most of us, if they could compare 2- and 3-stage from the same manufacturer. That still won't tell the whole story (it doesn't speak to long-term longevity, etc), but it's a start. 



> It is a little disconcerting to see on board storage of new auger pins. To this point I've never changed one in my life after 30 years with a 2 stage machine.


I've seen machines with on-board shear pins storage. I think it's a good idea, if it helps make sure you know where they are when you suddenly need one. Now, if the storage holds 30, because you'll need 20 to clear a storm, that's different  

I've been using 2-stage machines for 15 years, I finally broke my first shear pin last year. I didn't suck in any foreign objects, I'm not sure why that one broke. But I grabbed a spare and was back in business 5 minutes later. I don't have on-board storage, but fortunately I remembered where I'd put them. 



> And, there is huge gap between impeller and housing that some say should be fixed by do it yourselfers with hard rubber. Anybody have thoughts on this?


To Cardo111's point, I have never had a new machine with a warranty. But if you do an impeller mod, and the machine has a problem anywhere in the augers system, the dealer might use the impeller mod as an excuse to give you a hard time with the warranty. That would give me pause for thought. If it's a 1-year warranty, I'd wait a year. 

With that said, I put an impeller kit on my current machine, and am very happy with the results. I had about a 3/8" gap from the impeller to the housing. The impeller is a pump, and any gap reduces its effectiveness. My homemade impeller kit let me close that right up, and it throws better now. 

I have not seen any ill effects. My machine is stored in a garage that says a little over freezing, so I don't have to worry about things icing up after use. A smaller gap could make the impeller more likely to freeze to the housing. 

If you have a large impeller gap, I would consider doing an impeller kit, once you're out of warranty.


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## Buttchet (Mar 5, 2013)

jims94vmx said:


> Video now added to my signature


That is impressive. Not a fan of MTD but 3rd stage sure looks like a solid concept to me.


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## wdb (Dec 15, 2013)

RedOctobyr said:


> There are things that require a significant redesign, but don't meaningfully provide a benefit. Honda sold some cars with 4 wheel steering a while back. It was a lot of work/cost/complexity, I'm sure, but didn't seem to really do much. It didn't take off, and they stopped offering it. Despite liking Honda and their products, I would basically call 4WS a gimmick, unfortunately.


Not a gimmick.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Vehicles_with_four-wheel_steering

Maybe the same will prove to be true for "3-stage" snowblowers, but for now I'm going to play wait-and-see.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

jims94vmx said:


> Video now added to my signature


Sure looked like it performed well in that snow pile.
Keep us updated, have you tried it on wet slushy snow yet?


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

90trunk said:


> Being made by MTD, it faces an uphill battle to be accepted here. Out in the real world they are selling and moving snow.


For better or worse, you're probably right. There are brands that get more respect here than MTD. 

I haven't used their current machines. But I have owned both an MTD 640F (26"), and an Ariens ST824 (24"), almost the same age ('93-94), powered by the same Tecumseh 8hp. The MTD worked well for me, for years. But after buying and using the Ariens, back-to-back, I better understood what some of the other brands can offer. 

My Ariens was built better (thicker steel), performed better (larger augers & impeller, threw better with less spill-over), and was easier to use (has a differential). Of course, it was also more expensive than the MTD. I also had an MTD single stage, and Ariens single stage, and I preferred the Ariens between the two. 

This doesn't make the MTD machines bad, mind you. And they are absolutely out there working every day, and clearing snow! But I'll admit that my experience has biased me towards Ariens and Toro, if I was shopping for another machine. 

Speaking only for myself, I would admittedly give the concept more credence if, say, Toro was the one introducing it. This may be dumb, but it is how I would view it. I do have brand preferences, but they are based on hands-on experience, not just marketing/reviews, which I feel helps justify it.


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

> end of driveway piles


In the interest of accuracy and proper snowblowing vernacular, this is known as a berm.


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## Landngroove (Oct 12, 2015)

I'm not saying that 3 stage does not work. I've never had one. I live in Vermont. We get snow, and lots of it. (except this year, so far) in 30 years at my house, we have had some snowfalls between 2-3 feet. Then in a few days another substantial snowfall. I have always used a 2 stage Ariens snowblower. (10,000) series). Never had a problem moving even the deepest snow. Even at the end of the drive, where the plow goes by. My 2 stage throws the snow even over the tallest banks that have built up. So speaking from experience, I am very happy with the 2 stage blower.


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## jims94vmx (Feb 13, 2014)

Big Ed said:


> Sure looked like it performed well in that snow pile.
> Keep us updated, have you tried it on wet slushy snow yet?


 Last year we had about 8" of snow overnight that turned into rain all day the next day. I got home from work (8hrs later) and went thru it. It did not through as far but many people I spoke with the next day said they had to use a shovel, that their blower did not work. Mine never got clogged, and did what it was supposed to do. Being the HD model it has the heavier gauge steel and is taller. Don't know if the 3 stage had anything to do with the slush, but it pulls the snow in really fast on the higher amounts.....as my video shows. All I know is it works, and works well. Love the trigger turning, and the 357cc engine didn't even hesitate! 
Now any snow less then 30" is going to be a bore! LOL


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## caddydaddy (Dec 10, 2014)

jims94vmx said:


> Love the trigger turning, and the 357cc engine didn't even hesitate!
> Now any snow less then 30" is going to be a bore! LOL


Wow, that thing really didn't even slow down a bit with all that snow! My 524SWE would have groaned a bit, like it did with the 2 feet we got during a storm last Winter. 
I also love the trigger turning. I keep reading all these complaints about the Auto Turn on the Ariens, and I'm glad mine doesn't have it.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

caddydaddy said:


> Wow, that thing really didn't even slow down a bit with all that snow! My 524SWE would have groaned a bit, like it did with the 2 feet we got during a storm last Winter.
> I also love the trigger turning. I keep reading all these complaints about the Auto Turn on the Ariens, and I'm glad mine doesn't have it.


I haven't gotten to try triggers, but I like the concept, at least. Especially if you can maybe unlock both wheels, to make the whole machine freewheel? 

My Ariens has a simple (OK, "simple") open differential, which makes turning effortless. I can pivot in-place, and I can also easily drive in a gradual arc, like for following the walkway. It's still 2-wheel drive. But it has the drawbacks of an open diff, where if either wheel spins (eg- rubber tire on smooth ice), the machine goes nowhere. I use chains, so traction is rarely a problem for me in actual practice, and I love the system. 

Triggers seem like they'd give you the ability to pivot easily at the end of a pass, and also give you the traction of a solid axle, which could be a nice combination. 

I haven't tried Auto Turn, but I've read enough about it that I'd be a little concerned about buying one, certainly without getting to try it. The idea seems nice, but it sounds a bit finicky, and doesn't seem to work well in all situations. 

A limited-slip-differential that only kicked in when under power (so it would let you still pivot at the end of a pass) would sound ideal to me. But I don't know if anyone offers that.


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## caddydaddy (Dec 10, 2014)

RedOctobyr said:


> I haven't gotten to try triggers, but I like the concept, at least. Especially if you can maybe unlock both wheels, to make the whole machine freewheel?
> 
> My Ariens has a simple (OK, "simple") open differential, which makes turning effortless. I can pivot in-place, and I can also easily drive in a gradual arc, like for following the walkway. But it has the drawbacks of an open diff, where if one wheel spins (eg- rubber tire on smooth ice), the machine goes nowhere. I use chains, so traction is rarely a problem for me in actual practice, and I love the system.
> 
> Triggers seem like they'd give you the ability to pivot easily at the end of a pass, and also give you the traction of a solid axle, which could be a nice combination.


Yes, you can pull both triggers at the same time to disengage the wheels. I usually only do that when I'm rolling it around in the garage to get it put away.
My first Ariens had the pin to pull out on the wheel to turn, but like you said, it gives you an open differential and it sucked being one wheel drive.
My Cub with the trigger turning makes it as close to a zero turn as you can get. I get to the end of the driveway, pull a trigger and it turns and I'm right back on track to clear the next path. I really like it.


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## cesarhomes LLC (Feb 7, 2016)

*Snowzilla 2016*

I agree. I used my Cub on snowzilla 2016 and killed it. I went to my clients homes and helped dig them out as well. They were so grateful. Using this 3 stage on the snow was like a hot knife on butter. In total I helped 10 clients dig out of there driveways and sidewalks. That was just on day one of snowzilla. Love my Cub.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

:welcome: to the forum cesarhomes


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## Smolenski7 (Nov 24, 2010)

> Impeller mod kits are popular now, if that gap is not causing freeze up and the unit is throwing far enough personally I would leave well enough alone.
> 
> Additionally it is good practice to wait until the warranty has expired before doing any significant mods.


I totally agree. I put a DIY kit on my father's Simplicity 824. At the time I think it was about 7 - 9 years old and was clogging constantly. By putting in the impeller kit and removing that screen over the chute. I know, I know, it's a safety feature, but it was preventing the snow from flying out of the chute defeating the purpose of the machine. The snowblower went from the selling block to performing like new.

Now, I was then tempted to put a kit on my brand new Ariens 24" Deluxe, but thought better of it. The machine has never clogged, even in the slush, and throws the snow plenty far enough. Would the impeller kit help throw the snow a bit further? I guess, but it really wouldn't help me clear the drive way and side walks any faster or easier. Plus, it would probably have voided my warranty.


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## James972 (Feb 5, 2016)

Smolenski7 said:


> I totally agree. I put a DIY kit on my father's Simplicity 824. At the time I think it was about 7 - 9 years old and was clogging constantly. By putting in the impeller kit and removing that screen over the chute. I know, I know, it's a safety feature, but it was preventing the snow from flying out of the chute defeating the purpose of the machine. The snowblower went from the selling block to performing like new.
> 
> Now, I was then tempted to put a kit on my brand new Ariens 24" Deluxe, but thought better of it. The machine has never clogged, even in the slush, and throws the snow plenty far enough. Would the impeller kit help throw the snow a bit further? I guess, but it really wouldn't help me clear the drive way and side walks any faster or easier. Plus, it would probably have voided my warranty.


not to mention it seems impossible that if extending the length of the impellers 1/2 inch worked the manufacturers would not do it? I mean, come on, it would cost them pennies. Also, in theory, why would it work? The impeller throws snow up into the chute either way so why would an extended impeller reduce clogging or lengthen throw distance? Still, youtube stuff is pretty convincing.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

James972 said:


> not to mention it seems impossible that if extending the length of the impellers 1/2 inch worked the manufacturers would not do it? I mean, come on, it would cost them pennies. Also, in theory, why would it work? The impeller throws snow up into the chute either way so why would an extended impeller reduce clogging or lengthen throw distance? Still, youtube stuff is pretty convincing.


The following is merely my opinion: 

It would cost them more than pennies to simply extend the metal impeller tips closer to the housings. It's not just the little bit of extra metal. It's the fact that manufacturing tolerances suddenly become much more critical. 

Everything has a tolerance, and variations from part-to-part. Let's say the impeller is 12" outside diameter. The impeller housing is maybe 12.5" inside diameter, giving you a gap of 0.25" between the impeller and housing. 

But maybe a particular impeller is too big, 12.2" outside diameter. After all, these are stamped, bent, and welded parts, not precision-machined. Now the impeller gap is only 0.15". My impeller housing is also not perfectly round. When I made my impeller kit, the gap was closer in one area than the rest. So maybe the 12.5" housing has a spot that's effectively 12.3". Suddenly the gap is only 0.05" in that location. 

This also assumes that the impeller is perfectly centered in the housing. But if that impeller bearing sits off the side a little bit, the gap gets even smaller. And as the bearing wears over the years, the impeller shaft may start to move around slightly, further changing the gaps. 

The manufacturer can make the impeller tolerances tighter, they can make the housings closer to round, etc. But all this costs money. Money for something that most users will never notice, or care about (when was the last time you saw a specs list that included impeller gap? Most people are interested in the other numbers). They have to strike a balance between reducing the gap, and cost. 

There is also the fact that if the gap was really small, it wouldn't take much melted snow turning to ice to freeze the steel impeller impeller tip in-place to the side of the housing. That would be a functional problem, even if it hypothetically cost them nothing to make the gap really small. 

Now, we make our kits with rubber, and we hand-fit them. Our time is used to reduce the gap that was left. If things move a little bit, the rubber just wears down until it fits again. If a steel impeller suddenly touched, due to an extra-small gap, however, it would sound awful, might damage something, and the user would be disappointed in the machine. And the rubber is less likely to freeze to the housing than steel, since it can flex, to help break the ice. 

The manufacturer *could* use rubber, to help deal with this. But this introduces a different cost, since now it's a maintenance item over time (plus it still has to be fastened to the impeller, which isn't free). Rubber wears out, and eventually cracks. Plus I guess you could argue that rubber flaps on brand new machines might draw unwanted attention to an area that they'd prefer not to focus on  

As far as performance, an impeller kit definitely helps, in my experience, and what others have observed.


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## James972 (Feb 5, 2016)

well that sounds convincing, but, in the age of precision manufacturing of motors etc etc, most things that go around and around are helped by precision since its leads to a better, longer lasting, smoother, and more balanced products.

Also, manufactures could use rubber too and say replace it when it wears out if you want to so not necessarily a maintainance item. 

Also, why would impeller kit work anyway? Yes it would throw maybe 5% more snow but reduced clogging? More snow might clog more?


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

Maybe this will help you James.

The impeller kit works because it clears out the impeller housing with each blade. There is very little snow left behind and it's also moving a bit faster as the length of the rubber increases the diameter of the impeller.
With wet snow, it's less likely to clog because it's almost all forced out the chute and it's moving faster.


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## canadagoose (Dec 5, 2014)

CR also bases their ratings on consumer reviews. Mostly on consumer reviews actually


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## canadagoose (Dec 5, 2014)

They are selling like hot cakes here. Everyone that had them have sold out


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## canadagoose (Dec 5, 2014)

Me too. Even with tracks , the trigger turning lets me do a 180 in a snap. Works perfectly


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## James972 (Feb 5, 2016)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> Maybe this will help you James.
> 
> The impeller kit works because it clears out the impeller housing with each blade. There is very little snow left behind and it's also moving a bit faster as the length of the rubber increases the diameter of the impeller.
> With wet snow, it's less likely to clog because it's almost all forced out the chute and it's moving faster.
> ...


yep I've seen video and its hard to imagine someone would be pulling a fast one on us about the impeller kit. Do you know if a clog means the impeller is stopped or the chute is plugged but the impeller is turning?

also, it would be nice to see a side by side test of 2 stage versus 3 stage,


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

I'm looking to order the Cub Cadet 3X30HD Three-Stage Snowblower with the 420cc engine. Anyone have this one?


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

If it has the plastic chute walk away. If it does not buy lots of Fluid Film and Clarences impeller kit to prevent plugging and easily dealing with slush.


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

It has the steel chute.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Hello Rick,

The comments coming from owners of these machines would worry me more about the shear pins and their difficulty in changing them when they are sheared.


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

Does anyone have this model and do they go thru a lot of pins? I only use it on a paver block drive way also. The biggest job for it will be where the street plow pushes both sides of the street on my side so there's a lot of snow at the end of my driveway.


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

My CUB CADET 3X 30HD is awesome! I've used it a few times so far this winter and it throws the snow almost to my next door neighbors property. Now I need to see some deeper snow...


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

Jim...that was impressive...now I got to wait till those Cubs are 20 years old so I can buy a used one!


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

cranman said:


> Jim...that was impressive...now I got to wait till those Cubs are 20 years old so I can buy a used one!


This one might last that long... It's built with some of the thickest sheet metal.


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## dwgray (Jan 14, 2018)

When I bought my Snowblower I was faced with this dilemma. The price was the same But what was best? I concluded that the added third stage was not the primary stage to attack the hard pack so I opted for the "Tried and true".


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## dwgray (Jan 14, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> I haven't gotten to try triggers, but I like the concept, at least. Especially if you can maybe unlock both wheels, to make the whole machine freewheel?.


That is exactly how my Troy is controlled. Left trigger, disengage left drive. Right trigger, disengage right drive. Both triggers, drag it anywhere.


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

Forcefed4door said:


> I bought one, then cancelled the order. For some reason there are a ton of bad reviews on the machine. Most notably the center auger eating sheer pins. By the amount of bad reviews it's not a coincidence. And apparently it's a major mofo to replace them


I don't remember breaking any shear pins in the last 10 years with my 2 stage units. I would hate to change them out as often as adding fuel...


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## aldfam4 (Dec 25, 2016)

sscotsman said:


> just for the record..I only trust amazon to not cherry-pick reviews.
> and to allow all reviews, including "bad" reviews, and keep them online.
> Its been well confirmed that they dont mess with reviews..
> 
> ...


I work at a school and our maintenance guy uses a 48 inch Cub Cadet (4 wheels) 3 stage snow blower. Its nice for him because he can take care of the sidewalks with one pass, and there are a lot of sidewalks. I talked to him about the machine and he said its OK but he liked his older Simplicity snow blower he uses at home. I know from reading posts on here Cub Cadets go through shear pins a bit more that some other machines and this is true with this machine at our school. He has replaced some bearings and belts in the past few years he has used it, but to be fair - it is being used commercially. One observation I noticed however, we had about 4 inches of wet snow about a week ago and this machine had trouble getting rid of it. It was just kind of oozing out of the shoot. He was moving slowly though.
Just my 2 cents.


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

aldfam4 said:


> One observation I noticed however, we had about 4 inches of wet snow about a week ago and this machine had trouble getting rid of it. It was just kind of oozing out of the shoot. He was moving slowly though.
> Just my 2 cents.


Can't blame the machine, blame the operator for going too slow. They work better when the bucket if filled with snow.


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

Donyboy liked it on YouTube but didn't recommend it for commercial work


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

jims94vmx said:


> Video now added to my signature


That video is pretty impressive.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

90trunk said:


> Being made by MTD, it faces an uphill battle to be accepted here. Out in the real world they are selling and moving snow.


I Hit like post, but I wanted to really like post (put thumbs up guy here)

Look, anyone ever go back to a dealer and tell them how much they LOVE a product? Not typically, but it does happen. HOWEVER, people who have problems yell and scream from the rooftops. Keep in mind for every BAD review, there's numerous GOOD reviews, that haven't spoken up.

Bottom line is they are selling, and not everyone is complaining. And if people didn't like them, they would have been discontinued.


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## Jatoxico (Jan 6, 2018)

I posted in another thread that I approached 3X w/ a healthy skepticism but in the videos I've watched I have to say they seem to move through snow pretty darn well.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> I haven't gotten to try triggers, but I like the concept, at least. Especially if you can maybe unlock both wheels, to make the whole machine freewheel?
> 
> My Ariens has a simple (OK, "simple") open differential, which makes turning effortless. I can pivot in-place, and I can also easily drive in a gradual arc, like for following the walkway. It's still 2-wheel drive. But it has the drawbacks of an open diff, where if either wheel spins (eg- rubber tire on smooth ice), the machine goes nowhere. I use chains, so traction is rarely a problem for me in actual practice, and I love the system.
> 
> ...


My Simplicity does what you discuss. It's either posi, or freewheel. Pull the trigger, and it free wheels, making it very easy to move around. 

I don't know if other products do that.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I admit I'm skeptical about the 3rd stage, but I'm glad it's working well for people. 

I think it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison with a 2-stage and 3-stage version of the same machine. Comparing against another brand would also be useful, but at least a pair of these siblings would be good, to get a better sense how the 3rd stage changes things.


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## SayItAintSnow (Dec 15, 2017)

No 3 stage for me......

I've decided it would be more prudent to save my money for the first FOUR stage that comes out! :wink2: _(sarcasm intended....)
_
Haven't heard anyone offering a 4-stage yet.....but you know it's coming. 
Snowblowers are getting like razor blades. At one time, a single blade did the trick. Then they invented the double blade, then three. Then four with a pivoting head, then......

Snowblower manufacturers, like razor blade manufacturers know there is always a significant percentage of the potential market that will always rush out to buy the "latest thing".

I think 99.9% of the good folks here would evaluate a machine for its performance, and not whether or not it employs the latest gimmick. Could explain why there's so many classic snowblowers from yesteryear being restored, with many offering far superior performance to that newest "Yard Machine" sitting in front of WalMart.

Picking up and throwing snow effectively is after all, not a complex engineering problem. Look at the simplicity for example of a Toro single stage for snowfalls of 8 inches or less, and how effective a job it does. Though it's likely no secret to anyone here on this forum, there's a lot of people out there that don't realize that the more complex a device is, the more it costs initially, and the more it costs to fix it. This is something I used to try and impress upon a friend of mine who insisted on buying Mercedes Benz cars, but then cursed M/B out when he had to pay $1200 to have a tie-rod end replaced.....:smile_big:


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> I admit I'm skeptical about the 3rd stage, but I'm glad it's working well for people.
> 
> I think it would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison with a 2-stage and 3-stage version of the same machine. Comparing against another brand would also be useful, but at least a pair of these siblings would be good, to get a better sense how the 3rd stage changes things.


Anyone near me want to compare? I am a believer that the 3rd stage is better.


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

SayItAintSnow said:


> No 3 stage for me......
> 
> I've decided it would be more prudent to save my money for the first FOUR stage that comes out! :wink2: _(sarcasm intended....)
> _
> ...


I am a believer that the 3rd stage works better. It eats the snow quicker. It's not a gimmick. I also am not worried about the repair costs because I repair it myself... 

I'm 53 years old and I have used many snow blowers and this one is the best I've used so far. But this is with under 6 inches of snow so far but I can only imagine how well it will work with a higher amount. I will post a video when I get more than 6 inches.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

rickwhoo said:


> Anyone near me want to compare? I am a believer that the 3rd stage is better.








ariens bogs a lil at the eod needs more power then 7.5 hp 254cc vs 11 hp for the 359cc cub
ariens throws farther
moves more tons per hour bigger impeller 14 inch vs 12 impeller
built better
cast iron gear box
better resale value used
without looking it up prolly cost the same
imo the 3 stage works about the same as 2 stage apples to apples with the same motor a 2 stage ariens out throws the 3 stage cub just based on a bigger impeller
Just looked up the price seems to cost 300 more then the 28 inch ariens ahhhhhhh ariens tyvm


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

1132le said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-N59B18q6I
> 
> 
> ariens bogs a lil at the eod needs more power then 7.5 hp 254cc vs 11 hp for the 359cc cub
> ...


I see issues with that video. One, is the idle seems lower on the Cub and Two, the cub is seeing less snow than the Ariens. The Ariens is seeing more snow to throw. The Cub was going thru about 1/4 of higher snow and he should have moved faster with it.


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

I'd love to have either of them. A lot of regular folks are having trouble just paying the bills these days.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

rickwhoo said:


> I see issues with that video. One, is the idle seems lower on the Cub and Two, the cub is seeing less snow than the Ariens. The Ariens is seeing more snow to throw. The Cub was going thru about 1/4 of higher snow and he should have moved faster with it.


There are other vids that show the same results
a 28 sho will smoke that cub with only a 306cc engine and cost the same or less
build quality
gearbox
tons per hr snow removed
throw distance
resale value
the ariens wins hands down
enjoy your machine


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

1132le said:


> There are other vids that show the same results
> a 28 sho will smoke that cub with only a 306cc engine and cost the same or less
> build quality
> gearbox
> ...


I disagree... If I thought the Ariens was better than the one I bought, I would have bought it.


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

I just saw this in one of the many reviews...


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## monashdad (Feb 4, 2018)

*Three stage isn't better than two stage*



caddydaddy said:


> Has anyone actually used a 3 stage, or are they all just trash talking it?


I got sucked into the hype. I bought a three stage last year with the tracks. The tracks are awesome but the three stage just pushes small wet snowfalls. With larger amounts of snow it works great but in northern Illinois we have been getting 1-3 inches this year and it just doesn't work that great. I ended up buying a new two stage this year and only use the three stage with big snowfalls.


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## monashdad (Feb 4, 2018)

I bought into the hype and bought a Troybilt three stage with tracks last year. (I clean off a few driveways for extra cash) The three stage just pushes low amounts of wet snow(1-3inches). The tracks are awesome though. With a big snow(6+inches) it works fantastic but we haven't gotten one of those yet this season. I bought a new two stage Troybilt this year and am very happy with it.


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## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

That is what I have also read in most reviews, the 3-stage is better on the plow pile. In smaller storms the front mounted impeller is said to scatter the snow to the sides which many owners are not happy about. If you get a lot of deep heavy snow you may prefer the 3-stage machine. Reinventing the wheel is not always necessary or a good thing. Enough rambling it's game time!


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

monashdad said:


> I got sucked into the hype. I bought a three stage last year with the tracks. The tracks are awesome but the three stage just pushes small wet snowfalls. With larger amounts of snow it works great but in northern Illinois we have been getting 1-3 inches this year and it just doesn't work that great. I ended up buying a new two stage this year and only use the three stage with big snowfalls.


Every machine has a sweet spot. For 1-3 inches, if you're even going to remove snow, clearly a 3 stage isn't it. A single stage is probably best for that kind of accumulation.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

A 2-stage (and presumably 3) typically has more trouble with small storms. You often need a faster ground speed to keep the impeller sufficiently fed. 

I was surprised to see how narrow the traditional augers are some of the 3-stage machines, though it makes sense, as they can't interfere with the 3rd stage. But maybe the reduced size of the normal augers limits their ability to feed shallower snow towards the impeller. 

This is a bit of an extreme case, of course, 3-stage with a 24" bucket: 
https://www.consumerreports.org/products/snow-blower/troy-bilt-vortex-2490-281979/overview/

Regardless, for shallow storms I'd at least try the normal adjustment of using a faster ground speed, to see if that helps, by kind of simulating deeper snow.


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

The 3 stage works great. If you're complaining of a little pile of snow when you stop, that is ridiculous... All blowers leave a little in front of them when you stop in the path. They need forward motion to scoop up the snow. The third stage simple rushes the snow to the impeller quicker and more efficiently.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

RedOctobyr said:


> A 2-stage (and presumably 3) typically has more trouble with small storms. You often need a faster ground speed to keep the impeller sufficiently fed.
> 
> I was surprised to see how narrow the traditional augers are some of the 3-stage machines, though it makes sense, as they can't interfere with the 3rd stage. But maybe the reduced size of the normal augers limits their ability to feed shallower snow towards the impeller.
> 
> ...


I don't find Consumer Reports reliable. Let me tell you why. 

It all ended for me when they were comparing two boats, with the same engine. One got "high reliability", the other got "poor reliability". SAME ENGINE. Their car assessments for years were either Honda/Toyota or Toyota/Honda. 

I find it hard to trust anything they say. They can get two different blowers dressed in different paint, and have two different reports.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

I'm not advocating their snowblowers reviews, I was using them as a picture source for a 24" 3-stage, to illustrate the narrow traditional augers. 

For things like appliances I do like them as a resource. They can compare 10 air conditioners, refrigerators, etc, side-by-side, with a means to make an informed comparison about things like how noisy they are, how much they can hold, and so on. 

Amazon reviews are a fantastic resource, but it's rare for normal users to have owned multiple competing appliances, to be able to say "this one is louder than that one", vs just "it's loud". 

But I do take their outdoor equipment reviews with a solid grain of salt.


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## rickwhoo (Sep 18, 2017)

jsup said:


> I don't find Consumer Reports reliable. Let me tell you why.
> 
> It all ended for me when they were comparing two boats, with the same engine. One got "high reliability", the other got "poor reliability". SAME ENGINE. Their car assessments for years were either Honda/Toyota or Toyota/Honda.
> 
> I find it hard to trust anything they say. They can get two different blowers dressed in different paint, and have two different reports.


I only trust myself and a few people from forums to get truthful reviews...


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## jrcjr (Sep 23, 2017)

Clutch Cargo said:


> In the interest of accuracy and proper snowblowing vernacular, this is known as a berm.


But 'end of driveway piles' sounds more humorous. 
<Start TV Announcer Voice>
Do you suffer from end of driveway piles?
Are they itchy.....inflamed?
If you're looking for quick relief from end of driveway piles, try our product now!
<End TV Announcer Voice>


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## Clutch Cargo (Dec 27, 2015)

> But 'end of driveway piles' sounds more humorous.
> <Start TV Announcer Voice>
> Do you suffer from end of driveway piles?
> Are they itchy.....inflamed?
> ...


LOL! When my end-of-driveway piles act up, in addition to the itch, I definitely feel the berm!


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

About Consumer Reports, they use water soaked wood shavings that are dumped into 
a 10 cubic foot wheel barrow and when all the wood shavings have absorbed the water 
to imitate the heavy snow pack its ready to be used in the test.

They soak the wood shavings completely in to a huge wet dense mass and they do this twice 
making two loads of soaked heavy wood shavings dumped one behind the other to imitate 
the snow pack and then they test the snow blowers by driving them into the water soaked/packed wood shavings.

They run the two stage snow blowers through the soaked wood shavings and then judge them on 
their discharge performance in casting the saw dust away from the 2 wheel barrow loads of soaked wood shavings.


To me this is an ideal way to test both a 2 stage snow blower and a single stage snow thrower.


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## Mate from Virginia (Oct 29, 2017)

*Three stage snow blower*

Hi. I have a three stage Troy-Bilt that I purchased 3 years ago. I can tell you for certain it worked very well for me on almost 11 inches of snow. The only problem I had was while clearing a neighbors walkway, the snow blower hit a frozen newspaper. This sheared the back pin on the second stage. I have to admit, it was a pain getting back there to replace it. Once replaced, I resumed and the three stage did not bog down at all. Very happy with it. Only unhappy part is we have not had any significant snow falls last year and this year and I have not been able to use it.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

For my own curiosity, what's involved in replacing the shear pins on the "extra" auger, the accelerator one? Is it mainly difficult to see to line things up, and to get your hand back there? Or does something need to come off to do it?


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## guyl (Jun 12, 2016)

My concern is that the front auger is essentially one of those stamped plate augers, and that forcing it into hard or iced up snow will tend to flatten its screw shape and cause early failure. I've already had a couple of those stamped plate augers break at the weld to the shaft sleeve in their traditional configuration. I can just imagine how forcing it laterally makes this even worse.


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## Blackstar (Dec 27, 2010)

caddydaddy said:


> Has anyone actually used a 3 stage, or are they all just trash talking it?


Friend of mine has a 2 year old Husqvarna tracked 3-stage blower. He works on a coastal ferry 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off so I sometimes blow out his driveway for him. He told me to use his new blower but when I ran it it seemed to be plowing more snow than blowing. I put it away and got my Ariens to complete the job.
Later, it turned out a shear pin was broken at the back of the front facing auger. What a pain to get at. Anyway, tried it again and I still didn't like it. Tracks didn't have much grip and the whole thing didn't seem to track straight. At EOD the augers didn't want to bite into the icy snow.


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## Kris3983 (Feb 10, 2018)

I own one and yes it does help with heavy and wet snow as it proppels it into the shute a lot faster so its harder clog it. Is it a gimmick. Yes and no. Do you really need it. No. Its just as anything else. A honda civic will get to from point a to,point b. And so will a 100k porche. Its how fast you want to get there. Its all personal preference. You can do the job with a 20 dollar shovel as well. Its like comparing a ford to a chevy. Both get the job done.


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