# B&S 1150 Snow series problem



## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

I'm sure I've read about this problem before? Maybe it was on the Tractor Forum? Anyway, a search didn't find it.

Fired up my Deluxe 24 Platinum yesterday - it always starts first or second pull, very impressive!
After about thirty minutes of blowing the engine started making a grinding noise and losing power - I shut it off immediately.
Pulled the plug and poured Seafoam in the hole - just in case. Couldn't pull the engine over with the rope, tried electric start - nada!
Pulled the dipstick, nothing showing, so I drained the oil (very easy on this engine) - not much came out, what did was 'silvery'. Put fresh oil in and started looking for the problem. Noticed a slick on the right side, beneath the engine. Closer inspection showed that the 'oil filler' cap on the right side had come undone and puked oil out, tightened it as much as I dared. Removed the belt cover and managed to turn the engine over with a breaker bar and socket on the pulley bolt. Cranked it over with the electric starter to remove the Seafoam, replaced the plug and it fired up without any bad noises.
Since this happened, doesn't seem to have lost any power but the exhaust has an oily smell now, I'm checking these plugs and the oil level daily. Is there some way of ensuring these caps don't loosen? Does Loctite work on nylon?

Thanks for your patience.
Al


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Slide a fresh o-ring on there, and snug it up real good... use a tool if you have to, > finger power.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

If you still have the old oil, you can send it out for testing. Is this thing under warrantee? "SILVERY" oil isn't a good sign.


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## Motor City (Jan 6, 2014)

Their usually a tapered thread, but you be careful not to over tighten. I would use Loctite blue. or some kind of thread sealant would be preferable.


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## stromr (Jul 20, 2016)

You might try safety wiring the cap.


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Motor City said:


> Their usually a tapered thread, but you be careful not to over tighten. I would use Loctite blue. or some kind of thread sealant would be preferable.


This is a plastic cap. It's generally not a good idea to use liquid threadlock on plastic, it can degrade some plastics. If you really wanted to do that, I'd try it on a spare cap first, but I'm not really comfortable with the idea. Worst-case, the plastic starts to come apart, dropping into the oil, and then maybe the cap comes off anyhow. 

The plastic oil caps that I've used are typically a straight thread, with an o-ring under the cap. As you tighten them, you compress the o-ring. Is that the style used here? Is there an o-ring under both caps? 

I like the safety wire idea, if there was a practical way to do that. They shouldn't loosen in the first place, of course, so you shouldn't actually need a safety wire. Hopefully it just wasn't fully tightened last time. 

One thing you can do to make them easier to monitor is clean up the caps, and make a line from the cap, to the engine block. With a Sharpie, or similar. Now you can see at a glance if the lines are still lined-up, meaning nothing's moved, or if something has started to loosen. You can still check it by feel if you'd like, but you'd have another easy way to check at a glance. 

I'd change the oil one more time, right after running it, to help flush out any remaining shiny stuff in the oil. Doing it right after shutting it down will have more of that stuff suspended in the oil, and therefore more likely to drain out.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

Oil fill caps falling off are not an inherent design flaw and no thread locker needed. Properly tighten it when installing. Looks like someone broke a nub off the one that didn't fall off and might have gotten a little shy on the other.:sad2:


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

This is starting to look like a common problem.


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

Thank you all for the fast replies.

The plugs don't use o-rings, though that may be a good fix. I like the wiring idea and will look into it.
The 'tabs' on the plugs are of a ramp design, you can tighten them but they can't be easily undone - though I took this one out with my fingers after tightening it this morning - after changing the oil for the third time. Maybe I can find a replacement in metal with a hex head?
I will take this engine apart in the Spring to see if there is damage to the crank/piston/rings.

Thanks again.
Al


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

tighten those by putting a screwdriver across the nubs and turning.

I'd be far more concerned about the silvery oil than if the plug stays in.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

jsup said:


> tighten those by putting a screwdriver across the nubs and turning.
> 
> I'd be far more concerned about the silvery oil than if the plug stays in.


Yup. At least 50% of the engine longevity is erased and it could go at any time without warning.


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## DriverRider (Nov 20, 2016)

Shryp said:


> This is starting to look like a common problem.


In what respect? If these were on brand new machines before the first oil change that would be a problem but what is the age of this one and have the oil fill caps been removed previously? 3-4-5-6 or more years from production, how long do you think it should stay tight after removal by an owner?


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

low oil. drain oil silvery ,broken pull cord, = seized con rod. we have to remember these motors have splash feed con rods, no oil 30 mins is a long lucky time before the alum rod locks up tight to the crankshaft making for a large paper weight


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

DriverRider said:


> In what respect? If these were on brand new machines before the first oil change that would be a problem but what is the age of this one and have the oil fill caps been removed previously? 3-4-5-6 or more years from production, how long do you think it should stay tight after removal by an owner?


I'd argue the caps should stay put indefinitely, until they're removed  

It seems odd to me that they have ramps on the nubs, so they're kind of meant to be tightened, but not removed. How are you supposed to drain the oil, then? Is there another plug somewhere that *is* easy to remove?


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

RedOctobyr said:


> I'd argue the caps should stay put indefinitely, until they're removed
> 
> It seems odd to me that they have ramps on the nubs, so they're kind of meant to be tightened, but not removed. How are you supposed to drain the oil, then? Is there another plug somewhere that *is* easy to remove?


You are correct. I'm guessing these engines are used in a variety of applications? In this case, it has a filler tube and a dipstick so these caps have no purpose. The oil drain is a capped pipe at the engine base, making it very easy to drain - thankfully. 

Did another oil change last night after about two hours use, oil came out clean. I'm sure I haven't 'dodged the bullet', there must be some internal damage, hopefully it is limited to the piston/cylinder. Spring is coming but it has snowed every day recently.

Not sure how old this machine is, I must look up the model and serial #. I bought it 'used but never used', the owner moved to a town house shortly after buying it, stored it at a friend's place - just in case.

Al


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

DriverRider said:


> Yup. At least 50% of the engine longevity is erased and it could go at any time without warning.


Exactly. Use it until it explodes. And it will, eventually. Then re-power.


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

jsup said:


> Exactly. Use it until it explodes. And it will, eventually. Then re-power.


Or, in my case, re-build. I'm very happy with this engine (apart from this problem) and I can't see any point in replacing it. As was pointed out previously, these caps have been there for years without leaking, I will find a fix for the problem. :nerd:

Al


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

Wes Kootenay said:


> Thank you all for the fast replies.
> 
> The plugs don't use o-rings, though that may be a good fix. I like the wiring idea and will look into it.
> The 'tabs' on the plugs are of a ramp design, you can tighten them but they can't be easily undone - though I took this one out with my fingers after tightening it this morning - after changing the oil for the third time. Maybe I can find a replacement in metal with a hex head?
> ...


I always use a screwdriver and slip it between the nubs and give it a little more to ensure it won't ever unscrew due to vibration. Maybe replace that cap with another plastic one if you can't tighten it tight enough because the nubs are broken off of it already.

Because it bound up due to no oil in the engine, in the future you want to look for metal shavings in the oil as you drain it. You will find out in a short time if the motor is damaged. Good luck with it.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Realizing now that they don't ever need to come out, maybe just glue 'em in there with some liquid gasket or the like? Semi-permanent but if you ever did want to remove them you probably could without too much hassle...


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Realizing now that they don't ever need to come out, maybe just glue 'em in there with some liquid gasket or the like? Semi-permanent but if you ever did want to remove them you probably could without too much hassle...


You read my mind - "a little dab will do ya".
Thanks.
Al


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

lokinik


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

jtclays said:


> Did it ever have a baffle kit (to shed water away from the tractor area) or anything that would require the engine bolts to be removed or loosened? Re-tightening them may keep the vibration down. That Briggs is not their pinnacle of design. I know you claim to like it, but they eventually will walk a valve guide or blow a head gasket. I know there are 135,000 Briggs owners that will say I'm making stuff up, but I've fixed quiet a few of them. I would never buy one. Just FYI.


No, it has never had a baffle kit and the engine bolts are tight.
I was a little nervous about buying this machine with a BS engine. However, this is my fourth winter with it and it is a beast, handles everything from light powder to wet slop. Always starts first or second pull and this is the first problem I've had. Just came in from an hour of blowing, apart from smelling like a two stroke and using some oil it is running great. Our other stuff is powered by Honda, Kohler or Subaru, without any problems - so far. 
Thanks for the input.

Al


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I went and checked my generator. I have an 8HP old briggs on it. runs like a champ. It's one of those up draft style carbs. 

Anyway, I have the same thing on there, the oil plugs. You can tighten them up pretty tight, and they don't come out. My generator walks all over the place on a cement floor if I don't secure it. There's a lot of vibration and they never came loose.

On my engine, these are to fill the oil. There's one on each side, and you fill the oil until it reaches the other hole, then done. 

The drain for the oil is a plug, underneath these holes, on three sides of the block.


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

vg[ophnkghf


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## arienskids (Jan 26, 2018)

i had a customer last year with am mtd craftsman same thing happened had to replace the engine with a predator. despite what anybody says it is a common problem that needs to be addressed


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## barney (Nov 21, 2017)

I saw an interesting video done by a popular youtube guy 'Engineering Explained' wherein he ran a Predator 212cc snowblower engine with no oil. 

I think it may have been filled and then completely drained and the thing ran without problem for something like 16 minutes or longer. On half the youtube screen he showed the heat signature of the engine as it ran as compared to an original heat signature with oil. I can't remember if he ran the engine to destruction.

With that said I suspect if the OP keeps some fresh oil in his engine going forward he'll probably get another decade or two out of it.

edit: Here's the vid. He shows some scoring of journals? after 16 minutes no oil.


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

barney said:


> I suspect if the OP keeps some fresh oil in his engine going forward he'll probably get another decade or two out of it.


:smile_big: :smile_big:

I have a feeling that I may have got away with only piston/ring/maybe cylinder damage. Blowing (pumping?) wet slop today with no knocking or noticeable loss of power.
Getting a new hip soon so I'll be looking for projects. :crying:

Al.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Wes Kootenay said:


> :smile_big: :smile_big:
> 
> I have a feeling that I may have got away with only piston/ring/maybe cylinder damage. Blowing (pumping?) wet slop today with no knocking or noticeable loss of power.
> Getting a new hip soon so I'll be looking for projects. :crying:
> ...


Maybe crack the crankcase and clean it up as much as possible, could buy you some time. Maybe throw in a set of main bearings, and slap it back together. Like an engine "rebuild" from the oil pan.


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

Next oil change treat it with synthetic to reward your tough engine!


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Are oversized main bearings made for these things? Just wonderin. If he takes it apart, cleans up the crank journals (without taking the crank out) , and puts in some over sized bearings, he may be able to get some longevity. As long as the wrist pin is tight.


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

Ariens hydro pro said:


> Next oil change treat it with synthetic to reward your tough engine!


That's a good point Bob. Right now I'm using up some generic Walmart 10/30. I have a part jug of Quaker State semi-synthetic, maybe I'll try that. 
Big melt here at the moment, could be the end of winter??? :crying:

Al


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## Ariens hydro pro (Jan 24, 2014)

Wes Kootenay said:


> Big melt here at the moment, could be the end of winter??? :crying:
> 
> Al


This winter is weird. Farmers Almanac said for New England colder and wetter than normal. So I figured we will be buried with snow. It was bitterly cold in December with that pesky 1-2 inches every 3 days, then they forecasted 2-3 inches of rain in 24 HR period. Well we had 3 rain events that warmed up just in time to let it be rain instead of snow.

So Farmers Almanac was right, but when the heavy stuff comes we get rain. We lucked out so far. 

I like my blowers but I like spring more.:smile_big:


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## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Well don't give up hope yet, there's still time for snow! Spring is nice, yes, but we've barely had any snow. Both as reasons to fire up the machines, and also for winter activities (snowshoeing, etc, where man-made snow isn't really an option).


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## Wes Kootenay (Jan 10, 2018)

We had a ton of snow in January but it is melting fast here in the valley, good thing, as the deer were able to hop over our 7' fence.
Some 'old timers' (yes, there are people older than me!) tell me this is not an unusual winter.

Guess we're getting a bit off topic - oh well. :smile2:

Al


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