# Carb leak after jetting change



## TD-Max (Jan 2, 2020)

Brand new machine I did the change, reassembled, and a couple minutes after opening the fuel valve I had fuel running down the sides of the bowl. Pulled the bowl back off, checked that the oring seal was still in place, and reassembled. This time I worked the bowl back and forth a couple times and all seemed well, but it now looks like I still have a seep.


This is such a simple mod I just don't get how it could leak??? Guessing maybe I need to push out the floor of the bowl just a bit to get a more snug fit on the upper rim against the seal? Everything sure looked clean and dry when I put the bowl back on. Hoping maybe someone else had an experience like this and could shed some light.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

TD-Max said:


> Brand new machine I did the change reassembled and a couple minutes after opening the fuel valve I had fuel running down the sides of the bowl. Pulled the bowl, checked that the oring seal was still in place and reassembled. This time I worked the bowl back and forth a couple times. All seemed well, but looks like I still have a seep.
> 
> 
> This is such a simple mod I just don't get how it could leak??? Guessing maybe I need to push out the floor of the bowl just a bit to get a more snug fit on the upper rim against the seal? Everything sure looked clean and dry when I put the bowl back on. Hoping maybe someone else had an experience like this and could shed some light.


There's actually a whole thread (or several) on this somewhere, but you have to make sure the carb bowl is in the exact position it was before or the float will get hung up and it will leak. I want to say it the drain valve should be about 30 degrees off from center. I'll see if I can find the thread.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

That was quick...here you go. See post 5.

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/honda-snowblowers/149513-re-jet-now-fuel-leak-help.html


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## TD-Max (Jan 2, 2020)

Thanks, I'll check it out. Almost undoubtedly my issue I'd say. The fuel level shouldn't be at the seam normally so i'm sure this is my issue.

Haven't been overly impressed with the TQ so far on this machine, but I guess if the float level is riding high it could be running rich.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

see this problem all the time. either O ring is not is slot right or the bowl is on out of position. hanging up float so overfilling. you can look at inside of bowl to see how the float should match up. when you get it right get a scribe and mark outside of bowl and carb for future reference. or paint as most shops use.

a sharpy marker will just wash off with the gas.


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

I wish I could believe this theory because it could alleviate many leaking Honda float bowls symptoms - - - but I just cant! What part is hanging up on what part and how does rotating the float bowl relieve the symptoms? Keep in mind the float is being held down somehow????


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

cpchriste said:


> I wish I could believe this theory because it could alleviate many leaking Honda float bowls symptoms - - - but I just cant! What part is hanging up on what part and how does rotating the float bowl relieve the symptoms? Keep in mind the float is being held down somehow????


The float bowl is asymmetric, meaning it is not the same all the way around. If it is not positioned properly so that the deepest part of the bowl is underneath where the float is, the float will be pushed up so that it cannot drop down and fuel will continue to flow even when the bowl is full.

The only thing holding the float down is gravity. Generally that's pretty reliable, but if something is holding the float up then even gravity won't hold it down.


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

WVguy said:


> The float bowl is asymmetric, meaning it is not the same all the way around. If it is not positioned properly so that the deepest part of the bowl is underneath where the float is, the float will be pushed up so that it cannot drop down and fuel will continue to flow even when the bowl is full.


When the float is pushed up then fuel flow will be cut off. I've never seen a float bowl that isn't very symmetric, from Honda or from anyone. That said, I'd love to be convinced.


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## WVguy (Nov 24, 2018)

cpchriste said:


> When the float is pushed up then fuel flow will be cut off. I've never seen a float bowl that isn't very symmetric, from Honda or from anyone. That said, I'd love to be convinced.


Well, I'm not gonna get out my DSLR, put on a macro lens and set up the macro flash to photograph the float bowl on my Honda generator, then edit the image in Lightroom, export to a .jpg file and upload it here just to prove SGOTI is wrong, so I'll just refer you various and sundry videos on youtube. And no, I'm not gonna do your homework for you and look it up.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

WVguy said:


> Well, I'm not gonna get out my DSLR, put on a macro lens and set up the macro flash to photograph the float bowl on my Honda generator, then edit the image in Lightroom, export to a .jpg file and upload it here just to prove SGOTI is wrong, so I'll just refer you various and sundry videos on youtube. And no, I'm not gonna do your homework for you and look it up.


Is this close enough? Based on the picture it's supposed to go a certain way to allow the float to move without being pinched and stuck either open or closed. 

To cold out for a full disassembly.








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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

I'll keep it simple: When the float is pushed up then fuel flow is cut off by the needle valve.


So how does the asymmetrical bowl keep fuel flowing?


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

cpchriste said:


> I've never seen a float bowl that isn't very symmetric, from Honda or from anyone. That said, I'd love to be convinced.


 Perhaps you missed the page posted above from the service manual, which is VERY specific:


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

cpchriste said:


> I'll keep it simple: When the float is pushed up then fuel flow is cut off by the needle valve.
> So how does the asymmetrical bowl keep fuel flowing?


When installed incorrectly, the float is kept from rising and closing the needle valve.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

cpchriste said:


> I'll keep it simple: When the float is pushed up then fuel flow is cut off by the needle valve.
> 
> 
> So how does the asymmetrical bowl keep fuel flowing?


It pinches the float against the bowl, holding it down enough to keep fuel flowing. 

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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

I think I hear you guys saying: - something above the float holds it down, thus keeping the fuel flowing. What part of the fuel bowl does that? Are you proposing the bowl can twist while being tightened and that some vertical surface of the bowl can catch the side of the float?


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

cpchriste said:


> I think I hear you guys saying: - something above the float holds it down, thus keeping the fuel flowing. What part of the fuel bowl does that? Are you proposing the bowl can twist while being tightened and that some vertical surface of the bowl can catch the side of the float?


Look: Scribe your Honda carb bowl, then loosen it, spin it, go wild... You'll see. If you don't own a Honda, why are you even debating it? Done. :icon-deadhorse:


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

tabora said:


> Look: Scribe your Honda carb bowl, then loosen it, spin it, go wild... You'll see. If you don't own a Honda, why are you even debating it? Done. :icon-deadhorse:


I've owned and tuned multiple HS50, HS55, HS70, HS 80, HS624, HS828, HS928, HS1132. 
I've never seen what you seem to be talking about - and still can't discern whether you have a point. What keeps the float from rising in your example? 
I'm debating it because I'd like to learn something and thereby make my repairs easier and more productive.
What is your goal here?


BTW: We still don't know what model the OP has.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

cpchriste said:


> I've owned and tuned multiple HS50, HS55, HS70, HS 80, HS624, HS828, HS928, HS1132.
> I've never seen what you seem to be talking about - and still can't discern whether you have a point. What keeps the float from rising in your example?
> I'm debating it because I'd like to learn something and thereby make my repairs easier and more productive.
> What is your goal here?
> ...


I recently ordered a 92 jet for my 928. When it comes in and I do the swap I will be sure to take plenty of pictures. In the meantime here's a diagram from boats.net that shows how the carb goes together. To me it looks like it's supposed to go together a specific way so the float can do it's job. 

The jet hasn't shipped yet so it might be a couple weeks.








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## TD-Max (Jan 2, 2020)

cpchristie, It's not so much something above the float that is blocking it. The bowl has creases in the side wall that can hang up the float.

There should not be fuel at the level of the bowl gasket to leak in the first place. Mine was fixed with a simple tweak to the float bowl orientation. I was pretty close, but just far enough off apparently to mess with it. It would be SO easy for Honda to make an indexing tang on the bowl to prevent misalignment.


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## 2muchsnow (Oct 22, 2019)

TD-Max said:


> cpchristie, It's not so much something above the float that is blocking it. The bowl has creases in the side wall that can hang up the float.
> 
> There should not be fuel at the level of the bowl gasket to leak in the first place. Mine was fixed with a simple tweak to the float bowl orientation. I was pretty close, but just far enough off apparently to mess with it. It would be SO easy for Honda to make an indexing tang on the bowl to prevent misalignment.


Glad to hear you got it fixed!

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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

TD-Max said:


> cpchristie, It's not so much something above the float that is blocking it. The bowl has creases in the side wall that can hang up the float.
> 
> There should not be fuel at the level of the bowl gasket to leak in the first place. Mine was fixed with a simple tweak to the float bowl orientation. I was pretty close, but just far enough off apparently to mess with it. It would be SO easy for Honda to make an indexing tang on the bowl to prevent misalignment.


you're right about honda perhaps making this fool proof.

it's a very common problem that is brought up dozens of times a year. I just use a scribe to mark both bowl and carb body . most shops use a paint pen. I'd like to find a good fine paint pen to do this .

I wonder how you determine 30 degrees off center? usually i just "eyeball" it and am right most times.


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## cpchriste (Jan 19, 2014)

TD-Max said:


> cpchristie, It's not so much something above the float that is blocking it. The bowl has creases in the side wall that can hang up the float.
> There should not be fuel at the level of the bowl gasket to leak in the first place. Mine was fixed with a simple tweak to the float bowl orientation. I was pretty close, but just far enough off apparently to mess with it. It would be SO easy for Honda to make an indexing tang on the bowl to prevent misalignment.



Thank you for the simple and civil response. 

I agree that designing an asymmetric bowl without precluding mis-assembly is very uncharacteristic of Honda engineers. I'll be on the lookout for this possibility on my next 928.


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## TD-Max (Jan 2, 2020)

So just a follow up here. I do still have a fuel drip so I don't think my issue was with the bowl orientation as I thought. It looks like I had it right the first time but moved it a bit anyhow. What I have is a drip from ramping into the bed of my truck. this is much steeper than recommended and I also climb it up forward and down in reverse which is the opposite of what is recommended but the only way that works. Running at this angle is overfilling the bowl and also allowing seepage at the oring. I guess I'm going to have to make a habit of running longer after tipping to get the level corrected.


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## SkunkyLawnmowers (Oct 18, 2018)

Before ramping, try running the engine with fuel switched 'off' and let the engine stall. Then load with the fuel still switched 'off'

This might go some way to correcting your problem.


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## TD-Max (Jan 2, 2020)

Thought about that but I'd hate to have it stall on the ramp.


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