# What is the best?



## davidhale3 (Feb 27, 2019)

I know you guys get asked this a lot. I want something that can handle Michigan winters. I live on a busy street and the snowplow guy always makes sure to shove as much heavy snow at the end of my drive as possible.

The machine HAS to have hydraulic trans -- no gear/clutch set up. I'm okay with wheels because my drive doesn't have much incline and is paved. Track drive is fine, just not essential.

I'm a bit partial to Honda, but I'm not sure the new ones are made as well as they used to make them. Honda is also expensive, which isn't a deal breaker, but a concern.

What machine would you recommend?

Thanks!


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

Well, I'd argue some of your requirements . . . 50+ years in the Upper Peninsula with Ariens with "normal" drive and up to 400" a year, and zero problems. To me, hydro drive may be nice, but I have never felt any need or desire to have it - seems like just something else to run the price up and possibly have an expensive failure. 55th year, just bought the third blower, changed 1 or 2 drive discs max . . . used by two families, and typically 3 to 4 driveways, many days a week. (Read:They hold up fine!)

Ariens does have hydro models, though, if you are adamant about throwing money down that hole.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

I would go with an Ariens and the rubber disc tranny without EFI


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

If you are 100% set on a hydro, no turning back, then:
HSS1332AT / HSS1332ATD Honda's are nice and will get the job done. The Ariens Pro 28" Hydro MODEL NUMBER 926060 with the Briggs 420cc is also very nice. All are hydro's and all will do a great job. The only way I'd spend that kind of money is with a full line dealer, so there's your dinner.


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## Brent Holm (Oct 22, 2019)

I once desired a hydro Honda. Turns out I have been super impressed with a decade old disc drive Ariens. Just today I simply bombed it into a pile of snow on a deck that came off the roof 2 days ago and since froze. Went through it like a trooper, throws snow really well. The disc drive holds well enough to run it up and down atv ramps in and out of my truck. Most of all get the highest power for your chosen size. 1332 Honda would be awesome but the price... Not willing to go there since there are tons of old disc drive machines that work flawlessly for decades and can be had for much less.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

You need torque and more horsepower gives you that.
The Toro 1428 OXE with the patented no clog system would be more than adequate for what you need for less money or purchase two of them having one as a spare for that kind of money.
Having a set of chains is a good thing too.


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## mats (Feb 10, 2019)

It is a good and hard Question

For me I made a list of need to have and nice to have

needs:
handle warmers (I have had so cold hands that I have had issues with unlocking the door when done)
max width below 30" to be able to get through a door to my workshop (yes it should be rebuilt with a bigger door)
high HP/clearing width ratio (to throw snow further away)
lights
reliability and easy to obtain spare parts

wants
variable speed drive
tracks


In the end I got an Ariens Pro 28 - on wheels and disc driven
The need for reliability and spare parts outweighed the desire for variable speed. In worst case i can get an oem disc within 30 km for less than US30$ instead of waiting X days/weeks for parts. And yes $800 in price difference had a part in it too

The classic tracks cant climb the stairs in my garden and the rapidtrack was about US1800$ more expensive so I decided that it was way to much for a nice to have

The stock light - well lets just say that a 12 year old worn out Stiga is better so some "saved" money will be used to fix that issue


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

mats said:


> It is a good and hard Question
> 
> For me I made a list of need to have and nice to have
> 
> ...


Hey nice purchase, that's what I have!! I agree with everything you said. The OP however really wants a hydro and as he said "Honda is also expensive, which isn't a deal breaker, but a concern." So I figure he's got deep pockets which is great! 
Enjoy your Ariens Pro 28 you made an excellent choice. Oh, BTW here's a pic of my PRO 28"


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

leonz said:


> You need torque and more horsepower gives you that.
> The Toro 1428 OXE with the patented no clog system would be more than adequate for what you need for less money or purchase two of them having one as a spare for that kind of money.
> Having a set of chains is a good thing too.


I'd like to shop at your dealer. Power Max® HD 1428 OHXE Commercial (38843) 2 x $2599.99 at my dealer is $5199.98 and I might get a small discount for cash. The Honda's and Ariens come in a couple of thousand less. 
I like the Toro but the OP says* must have hydro* and it's his $$ so lets spend it!


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

Zavie said:


> If you are 100% set on a hydro, no turning back, then:
> HSS1332AT / HSS1332ATD Honda's are nice and will get the job done. The Ariens Pro 28" Hydro MODEL NUMBER 926060 with the Briggs 420cc is also very nice. All are hydro's and all will do a great job. The only way I'd spend that kind of money is with a full line dealer, so there's your dinner.


dealer!! the magic word,


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

leonz said:


> You need torque and more horsepower gives you that.
> The Toro 1428 OXE with the patented no clog system would be more than adequate for what you need for less money or purchase two of them having one as a spare for that kind of money.
> Having a set of chains is a good thing too.


sorry leon!! from first hand use, they still clog, toro can say what they want,wet snow will clog anything


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I may have to get an Ariens Pro to see what all this talk is about. Our Honda dealer sells Ariens now also.


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## Steve70 (Nov 12, 2018)

There is much to read in this forum. All is good. both for learning and also for sharing


Bucket for bucket inch the Ariens will chuck more snow than a Honda per hour. For example: A 28" Ariens will blow as much per hour as a 32" Honda. A 32 Ariens as much as a 36 Honda. I looked into both brands carefully before buying a 28 Ariens Rapid Trak Pro a year ago. I'm quite happy with it. As I compared the two in person I found the Ariens to offer more bang for the buck and I thought it also a little sturdier built. Also a factor was I thought the 28 Honda was underpowered compared to the Ariens and I really didn't need to go bigger given we're gone a good chunk of the winter now. The OEM hand warmers are a little light on the power, but work well enough. Some of the new Hondas have also had a clogging problem which there is absolutely no excuse for. 

I've started blowing snow in the center of the Upper Peninsula around 1963-64(11-12 years old) with my dad's old Sno Bird. We don't get as much snow as the Copper Country, but we get a lot. Since the late 60s / early 70s we've always had Ariens and been quite happy with them. My 1990 1236 Ariens was chucking snow just fine last year when I decided to treat myself to one more new toy. Having had some back issues over the years, it was getting to be a bit of a beast to push around with both wheels tied together. I sold it for good money and it continues to move big snow. I replaced one friction disc the entire time as I remember. This time around I decided to go with the hydro tranny and tracks and am very happy I did. Did I need either? Probably not. I'm not anticipating breakage given my Ariens experience to date, but at this stage of life, I'm also not concerned about cost down the road 

The 3 positions of the Rapid Trak covers all the bases as it can be used as a wheeled machine in addition to the 2 track positions. I understand the hydro tranny is one more thing that could go wrong, but I've run lawn tractors with hydro trannys for over 25 years and never had an issue. I've come to really like the speed control of the set up. You can literally inch it forward in the track dig mode to scrape up car tracks. 

To recap. I inherited my dad's late 60s 24" 8HP Ariens in the late 70s. I ran it until through 1989. This one was wore out and not worth maintaining any longer. It had moved many 1000 inches of snow faithfully in it's day. I bought the 1236 in the fall of 89. It probably would have seen me through my snowblowing time, but I sprung for a new one last year. This my 3rd Ariens machine in my lifetime and probably could of made do with only 2.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

orangputeh said:


> I may have to get an Ariens Pro to see what all this talk is about. Our Honda dealer sells Ariens now also.


Yeah, come on over!!


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

Zavie said:


> Yeah, come on over!!


already have one sickness........don't need two


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

orangputeh said:


> already have one sickness........don't need two


It's like having a beer one day and the next day there's shot's of Jack Daniels or Jim Beam, (or any of the good stuff). Nothing wrong with a little variety. :wink2:


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## mats (Feb 10, 2019)

Zavie said:


> Hey nice purchase, that's what I have!! I agree with everything you said. The OP however really wants a hydro and as he said "Honda is also expensive, which isn't a deal breaker, but a concern." So I figure he's got deep pockets which is great!
> Enjoy your Ariens Pro 28 you made an excellent choice. Oh, BTW here's a pic of my PRO 28"


I know 
I just wanted to share my way of making the selection easier.
For me I will not spend money if not all the needs are filled. If the are I'm almost every time willing to spend whatever it costs.

I may spend money on the wants but here I will weight the price against what I get

For the OP - hydro should be on the needs list 


Nice machine by the way


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## 88-tek (Nov 5, 2017)

Zavie said:


> It's like having a beer one day and the next day there's shot's of Jack Daniels or Jim Beam, (or any of the good stuff). Nothing wrong with a little variety. :wink2:


And that is why variety is the "spiced rum" of life..ccasion14: LOL


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## Ian Ariens 924 (Dec 22, 2015)

I just got a 2003 or 4 Ariens 1128 Pro with onboard E start and hand warmers and I’m thrilled.
Moving up to Rapid trak and a hydro trans would be great.I watched a video of the rapid trak going up deck stairs and love the idea of a hydro trans.
My only reservation is the hydro servicable and proven to perform like the disc drive system .

But if you get lots of snow and don’t worry about fixing your own unit, buy the best snowblower you can and enjoy yourself.


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## davidhale3 (Feb 27, 2019)

Thanks for all of the replies, guys. Zavie wants hand warmers -- I always use the exhaust from the muffler. Take off your gloves and have the exhaust blow inside the gloves (and hands) and good for another 15 minutes before you have to do it again...

David


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## 2.137269 (Nov 15, 2019)

if only ariens powered up with honda motors not lct or briggs, never owned a hydro machine,never had a need for one,the disc drives last as long as ,can be fixed by any diyser in quick time not so on a hydro where the dealer may have a 3 or 4 week wait just to look at it plus parts order and repair time. 
with a min spare parts stash of belts, pins, drive disc "which may never be needed" good knowledge of the machine, one's back to running mid storm in about a 1/2 to full hour, 

lots of good ups about any machine than there is also the down's that hurt


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

87powershiftx2 said:


> sorry leon!! from first hand use, they still clog, toro can say what they want,wet snow will clog anything


my 26" large frame 1984 old cub cadet repowered with an 11hp ohv engine with an impeller kit will not clog even with the wettest slush or snow.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Buy the Honda.
I always wonder why people get up on the stage at 'The Price is Right' and then look into an audience of strangers for advice.
Same here.
Just give him the model number for a reliable Honda and let the remainder of us troglodytes continue on with our disc drives.
He'd better have a strong back to pull a tracked hydro out of deep snow if the motor dies.
To each his own.


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## cranman (Jan 23, 2016)

My 1973 Ariens with a 208cc Chondra was actually blowing WATER from the end of my driveway yesterday....the slush was going across the street......Impeller kits ar the way to go...that one only had 2 impeller vanes done.


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## Hawk (Oct 21, 2019)

leonz said:


> You need torque and more horsepower gives you that.
> The Toro 1428 OXE with the patented no clog system would be more than adequate for what you need for less money or purchase two of them having one as a spare for that kind of money.
> Having a set of chains is a good thing too.



I love those big commercial Toro’s! There unstoppable!
If one must have hydro, but is concerned about price there is a confusing duality to me. I’ve never had an issue with friction. Friction is simple and has been perfected over time. If something goes wrong it is far cheaper and easier to fix. This is clearly not the case with hydro.


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

Can you imagine how Toro would improve the motomower snowshark if it decided to take up the design and used the 14 horsepower engine and a 8 inch single stage metal auger flights that are 4 inches apart with a 15 degree angle with 6 
center paddles BEHIND the larger twin dual augers in front??????

Add a three speed chain driven track drive with a friction disc drive system with removable weight bars that would be mounted on the frame along side the tracks and Drool, Drool, Drool, Drool, Drool, Drool, Drool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every END OF DRIVEWAY MONSTER from here to Pugwash, Nova Scotia, Canada and the southern shores of Hudson Bay 
would run away screaming for the nearest warm storm sewer and start melting, DROOL, DROOL, DROOL.



Take that Tim The Tool Man Taylor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vstorm (Dec 9, 2019)

If you get a hydro, make sure you can change the trans oil. I've seen hundreds of good running lawn tractors with 3-5,000 hr rated engine life go down at 500-600 hours with hydro trans problems simply because the trans was unserviceable without removing it from the machine. A regular change of hydro oil would allow these machines to jump right out of the planned obsolescence category. I have a friend who's made quite a business out of this mess. He buys them for cheap, repairs them(sometimes just changing the trans oil will do it) and resells them at a decent profit. Ariens reliability is not at the top of the heap so I would check carefully if I were you considering what they cost.


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## vstorm (Dec 9, 2019)

Let's get it right, you need torque to produce HP, not the other way around. Torque is the amount of twisting force that the motor can generate. HP is the rate at which you use torque to do the work. i.e. engine RPM is a multiplier in the equation. Higher torque allows for a larger machine. It can also enable a smaller underpowered machine. Higher HP allows the machine to get the work done faster. When you overload it, higher torque will keep it from bogging down as quickly. Also be wary of a machines reliability. I'm sure that I will get a lot of flak for reporting the following info which is based on 17,000 samples over a 2 year period of machines up to ten years old. Granted some of the machines reported on were new models, some only used for a year or two but all the data spread out over a 2 year period will average out to something useful. Here is the reliability line up for single stage blowers: 

HONDA 10 / 10, TORO 8 / 10, TROY-BILT 7 / 10, CRAFTSMAN 6 / 10, SIMPLICITY 5 / 10, BRIGGS & STRATTON 4 / 10 ARIENS 3/10. 

Pretty shocking to see Ariens in last place but that machine is new and almost all new products or innovations to existing products will have some problems in the first year or two until the bugs are removed. Why don't we wait, test and get it right before it's released for sale? We don't want to miss any market windows, no matter what the cost. It's less expensive to repair thousands of machines under warranty than it is to lose your place in the market and try to catch up with the crowd. Here's the run down for one stage machine owner satisfaction:

HONDA 10 / 10, TORO 9 / 10, ARIENS 7 / 10, BRIGGS & STRATTON 6 / 10, TROY-BILT 6 / 10, CRAFTSMAN 5 / 10, SIMPLICITY 5/10

So here we see that owner satisfaction is not necessarily based on reliability. Some machines are nice to use and produce good results when they are running so their owners are somewhat forgiving when they need repairs. Some owners will defend their purchase ideas to the death no matter how much trouble they have with a machine. Then there are owners who have had so much trouble with an aging machine that anything more reliable looks good to them.

Here are the reliability figures for two stage machines:

Cub CADET 9 / 10, HONDA 9 / 10, TROY-BILT 9 / 10, ARIENS 8 / 10, CRAFTSMAN 7 / 10, TORO 7 / 10, BRIGGS & STRATTON 5 / 10 HUSQVARNA 4 / 10, POWER SMART 1 / 10

Two Stage Owner Satisfaction

ARIENS 10 / 10, HONDA 10 / 10, CUB CADET 9 / 10, TORO 9 / 10, TROY-BILT 9 / 10, HUSQVARNA 8 / 10, CRAFTSMAN 7 / 10, BRIGGS & STRATTON 6 / 10, POWER SMART 5/10

So once again, we see that people sometimes like their machines even when they are not reliable.

Three stage machines here:

CUB CADET 6 / 10, TROY-BILT 5 / 10

Owner Satisfaction

CUB CADET 9 / 10, TROY-BILT 9 / 10

Yet another look at how people can still love a hooptie no matter what happens to it. 


Source: Consumer Reports' 2018 and 2019 Spring Surveys


The lessons here are:

1. Don't fall for all the new bells and whistles. i.e. Ariens power steering works great on some driveways and not so good on others like mine, no matter how many times it is "fixed" or adjusted by the dealer. I have to have locked axle performance with trigger steering if I want to go in a straight line and not get frustrated trying while wasting time on my 300' gravel driveway. Buy a machine with shear pins. I know of one company that thinks they don't need them because their gearbox is so strong that if you hit something, the engine will stall. If you have in depth knowledge of engines, then you know that suddenly stopping them from speed is not recommended. As an aircraft mechanic, I have been trained to replace any engine that has experienced sudden stoppage. i.e. rough landing where prop hits. That engine is now unusable by FAA standards. Even if it still works, it may no longer be reliable. Also, be wary of anything new including EFI until the early adopters have helped to shake out the bugs at their expense. Small, Super High Output engines will not last as long as a stout engine that makes power through size. i.e. CC's There is no substitute for displacement. Power adders can help but hurt reliability. A good 350 CC engine can produce 13-14 HP and more than 20 Ft lbs of torque. That seems like overkill for most people most of the time but even if you get only one or two big storms every year, you will be able to handle it easily and the rest of the time, the machine will be loafing and therefore last longer. Constantly overworking an easy to handle smaller machine could lead to an early death after a life of replacing worn or broken parts. Would you use a Camry to haul a backseat full of cinder blocks on a regular basis? 

2. Don't get your buying advice from your friends, neighbors or anybody on any forum. You will definitely get opinions and not facts. Remember, it takes a large sample size to get accurate information so unless your brother-in-law has 30+ snow blowers exactly like the one you want and uses them all regularly, he can't possibly give you an accurate picture of what experience you may have with it.

3. Do your own research, there is nothing that will educate you faster and more accurately than due diligence. Any truly good help you will get will probably not come from a forum or sales or promotion site. You can glean tid bits of info there but for accurate reliability info showing inherent weakness or trouble spots, look for the product test organizations, make sure they don't accept samples from manufacturers, they should be bought at a store just as you and I and other consumers would do. Reliability data gets more accurate as the sample size gets larger. If you look at large Non-Profit organizations like Consumer Union, they poll thousands of users every year to get a good overall picture. YOU CAN NOT GET Accurate data any other way. Remember, servicemen only see problems. They don't know anything about how many good machines are out there unless they do the research. In short, there is no one person or even 100 people that all agree who can give you information that is as accurate as the large polls conducted by non-profit organizations like CU.


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## badbmwbrad (Jul 30, 2019)

I think the disc drive has proven itself to be reliable enough to meet my needs (average homeowner with an above average (i.e. very large), fairly level driveway in the northeast. 

Disc drives are field serviceable and I can change out the rubber drive wheel and belt on my wheeled Ariens ST-824 in under an hour for much less than $100. An OEM wheel cost about $25 and an OEM belt is about $30. 

The disc can slip a little when pushing into heavy snow on the wheeled Ariens machine but it's not an insurmountable problem. 

A hydraulically-driven, tracked Honda machine can very well out-push a wheeled, disc drive ST-824. ...and the Honda costs at least three times more than the old Ariens ST-824 disc drive machine. 

Maybe one needs a machine that can remove 2+ feet of snow-plow ice while pushing up a very steep hill. In that case, the Honda is a good choice. 



87powershiftx2 said:


> if only ariens powered up with honda motors not lct or briggs, never owned a hydro machine,never had a need for one,the disc drives last as long as ,can be fixed by any diyser in quick time not so on a hydro where the dealer may have a 3 or 4 week wait just to look at it plus parts order and repair time.
> with a min spare parts stash of belts, pins, drive disc "which may never be needed" good knowledge of the machine, one's back to running mid storm in about a 1/2 to full hour,


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## penna stogey (Nov 25, 2019)

Rooskie said:


> Buy the Honda.
> I always wonder why people get up on the stage at 'The Price is Right' and then look into an audience of strangers for advice.
> Same here.
> Just give him the model number for a reliable Honda and let the remainder of us troglodytes continue on with our disc drives.
> ...


Funny ha ha about price is right!!!
Also the guy that only wages $1.00 and not go over...Nice!


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## leonz (Dec 12, 2014)

I am happy with all my Toro purchases and have been since 1978 as they simple to use and maintain. 

I should have overruled the wife about purchasing a single stage snow thrower for my wheel horse 244 hydro in 1992 as I would have it out there instead of the "Junk" john deere la115 with its expensive snow blower.

I just hope that I can afford a 1428 OXE Or larger 2 stage Toro Snow blower when the time comes as I will be old enough to need one. 

The only thing that would make me change brands is if Yamaha snow blowers came back in to the United States.


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