# Gas Questions...



## KiterTodd (Dec 16, 2016)

Have my new Toro 824 QXE and I'm ready to get it setup for snow. A few questions...

1) Can I add the fuel stabilizer to the gas container as opposed to the tank? Then the whole container is ready to go if my wife or someone else needs to add fuel. May seem like a dumb question but for some reason the guy at the yard equipment place where I bought it said to add it to the tank.

2) I heard higher octane fuel is recommended these days for small engines. Less ethanol. The Toro says not to use gas with more than 10% ethanol. My feeling is the less the better.

3) Do you have a favorite gas container you'd recommend? I have a couple in the shed that I use for tillers and chain saws, but they drip when I use them and the shed smells like fuel a bit because they vent. For the snowblower, I'm going to leave it in the garage all winter and I'm not the only one using it. So, I'd prefer a can with minimal venting and easy for the wife to setup to pour without her gloves smelling like gas.

Thanks for the support! This has proven to be a very helpful forum for my first snowblower purchase.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

Q1) Yes, add it to the gas can. Be confident about that. I add it before filling the can, to mix it well during the fill.


Q2) While I cannot advise regarding using a higher octane, I can attest to the merits of using non-ethanol fuel. Consult this site for a location near you: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada. With that said, I buy non-ethanol high test and add 6 oz Seafoam to the 5 gallon can before filling. I never have a problem.


Q3) JustRite Type II Safety Can. 
https://www.zoro.com/justrite-type-ii-safety-can-red-17-12-in-5-gal-7250120/i/G2521294/
Expensive. I have four I purchased 10 years ago. I keep them in a plastic storage cabinet with a nitrile glove over the nozzle pointed up. Cabinet is vented and it keeps sawdust off of the cans. I'm a fanatic on gas and gas cans. I even bought the kit to test non-ethanol to be sure I get what I pay for.


Good luck!




KiterTodd said:


> Have my new Toro 824 QXE and I'm ready to get it setup for snow. A few questions...
> 
> 1) Can I add the fuel stabilizer to the gas container as opposed to the tank? Then the whole container is ready to go if my wife or someone else needs to add fuel. May seem like a dumb question but for some reason the guy at the yard equipment place where I bought it said to add it to the tank.
> 
> ...


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

KiterTodd said:


> 1) Can I add the fuel stabilizer to the gas container as opposed to the tank? Then the whole container is ready to go if my wife or someone else needs to add fuel. May seem like a dumb question but for some reason the guy at the yard equipment place where I bought it said to add it to the tank.


Adding it to the gas can is the best and only way to do it.
add it the empty gas can/container just before you fill it up.
Two benfits:
1. you know how much gas the empty container holds, so you know exactly how much stabilizer to add.
2. adding it to the container, then filling the container with gas at the pump, mixes it all very well.

adding it to the tank on the snowblower is a ridiculous idea, because you never know exactly how much gas is in there.
Your guy at the yard equipment place is clueless.



KiterTodd said:


> 2) I heard higher octane fuel is recommended these days for small engines. Less ethanol. The Toro says not to use gas with more than 10% ethanol. My feeling is the less the better.


most grades ALL have ethanol these days, if so, there is no advantage to using premium.
if all your choices have 10% ethanol, then just use the 87 octane, because its the cheapest..there will be no benefit to using premium if the premium also has ethanol.
If you can, look for ethanol-free gas.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada



KiterTodd said:


> 3) Do you have a favorite gas container you'd recommend? I have a couple in the shed that I use for tillers and chain saws, but they drip when I use them and the shed smells like fuel a bit because they vent. For the snowblower, I'm going to leave it in the garage all winter and I'm not the only one using it. So, I'd prefer a can with minimal venting and easy for the wife to setup to pour without her gloves smelling like gas.


I bought one of these a few years back:

https://www.amazon.com/Blitz-Enviro-Flo-Plus-Gas-Can/dp/B0051XARQ8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1482947759&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=Blitz+Enviro-Flo+Plus+Gas+Can+-+1-Gallon

works great! never leaks. I found and bought the same can as the link above, but in the 1-gallon size, so the gas doesn't sit around too long.

one-gallon version:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41rrtiaMHxL.jpg

Scot


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

Agreed add it only to the gas can, adding it to the tank of the 'blower is absurd and shows that the person telling you this has no idea what they are talking about..
Gas cans, one thing I can say is DO NOT buy the lousy Spectre ones with that horrible spring loaded spout, that ALWAYS leaks. I actually called the company in Canada to complain about them (I bought a bunch of them at West Marine due to Super Storm Sandy being on the way and they were all I could find. I have about 5 of them). She sent me new spouts but they are no better. For a good one look (moderately priced) at the No Spill brand, and for sure check out No Spill Jill .....


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## KiterTodd (Dec 16, 2016)

Appreciate the tips, thanks!



sscotsman said:


> most grades ALL have ethanol these days, if so, there is no advantage to using premium.
> if all your choices have 10% ethanol, then just use the 87 octane, because its the cheapest..there will be no benefit to using premium if the premium also has ethanol.
> If you can, look for ethanol-free gas.


The theory I heard is that they use ethanol to cut costs so it is concentrated in the lower octane regular gas they sell the most of. They don't sell as much premium gas so it's not worth putting it there in higher concentrations. As you probably know, all octane levels between "super" and "regular" are just proportional mixes of the two tanks by the gas pump.

That's the theory anyway. Seems to make sense.


On gas cans, I was hoping for a plastic one as opposed to metal.
I actually do have the small one gallon one that was listed. I use it for chain saws. It's pretty good but as I don't store that clear plastic tube on the tank, it's still not exactly what I had in mind. Thinking of the wife here...easy open, pour, close, done. 

That said, if I keep the tank full she will hopefully have enough gas to do the driveway. I'm not sure how fast the Toro burns fuel.


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## KiterTodd (Dec 16, 2016)

LouC said:


> For a good one look (moderately priced) at the No Spill brand, and for sure check out No Spill Jill .....
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6QhDqumItw


Nice! Not only do I like no spill Jill, that can looks like exactly what I'm looking for.
Thanks!

Does anyone have these? Ahhhh....who am I kidding. I was impatient and just bought the 2.5 gallon version on Amazon.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

My neighbor had two of the no spill cans that he gave to me after he sold his back up generator and bought a whole house unit. He did not know about Jill, however, lol. 
I still have old plastic cans from the '80s with real vents. I use one for my 4 stroke machines and the other 2 for my 2 stroke machines. One has a mix of the usual 2 stroke oil + gas for the Echo stuff and Husky chain saw, the other is for the Toro 2 stroke which is supposed to use the NMMA TCW-3 2 stroke oil (but can run on the Echo oil as well). 

There is a way, you can...HMMM....modify....the EPA style cans....using....hmmmm spouts.....for water jugs....if you search round on the 'net....to get rid of the infernal leaky EPA spouts.....it involves a new spout....and adding a vent.....


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

I use a 5 gallon plastic can just for storage. I use only a cap to close the can. No spout or any type or pouring. Pour from a 5 gallon can? Are you kidding me? I pour in to the machine from 2 different 2 1/2 gallons Eagle cans. I fill all 3 at the beginning of the season. When the 2 2 1/2 gallon cans are empty, I syphon out of the 5 gallon storage can in to the 2 1/2 gallons. When I refill them I only go about 3/4's of the can because it is easier to pour. 

My sno thro tank is a little less than 1 gallon. During a fairly good size storm, I will use maybe 3/4's of a tank with my 342CC. 

I use 93 octane with Startron and every now and then I add a little Seafoam.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

Good idea. I been workin' harder .... Crud, I just bought 2 new JustRite 5 gal cans with 1" nozzles. Come with 10 year warranty though!




Kielbasa said:


> . Pour from a 5 gallon can? Are you kidding me? I pour in to the machine from 2 different 2 1/2 gallons Eagle cans. I fill all 3 at the beginning of the season.


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## TooTall999 (Nov 19, 2015)

First off if you can get ethanol free fuel buy that. Then you shouldn't need a fuel stabilizer. I'm lucky enough to have a ready supply of ethanol free fuel in both 89 and 91 octane at my favorite station. I keep a 5 gallon generic gas can full year 'round. I use it enough in the summer and winter that the fuel never sits very long. When your snowblowing season is over simply run your machine out of gas. Then refill with fresh gas before the start of your next season. I've never had an issue with any of my 2 or 4 stroke small engines using this method. If you think the gas in your can is going to sit too long, put in your car or truck tank. It'll be diluted with enough fresh gas that it won't be an issue. If all you can get is E10 then you'll need to use a stabilizer. Seafoam is not recommended for fuel storage as it's an ethanol based formula. Needless to say adding Seafoam to any gas increases the percentage of ethanol, so I don't know why anyone would do this.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

You know I've wondered about this. The recommendation came from a small engine genius named Johnny Seifert. He's online selling videos on carb care and repair. I've learned much from him. Granted I did not discuss Sea Foam in non-ethanol fuel; however, he did suggest the use of BP high test with 6 oz Sea Foam per 5 gallon can. Ever since, I have had zero problems. Zero problems makes a believer, particularly after the need to rebuild Honda generator carbs again and again, due to the tiny jets and ethanol doing its thing.


There must be something in Sea Foam that makes the fuel better, or I'd have problems by now, as I had. Mr. Seifert wouldn't steer me wrong, I am certain, and his suggestion has been golden so far, for these 6 years or better.


As I said, however, after paying the premium for non-ethanol premium ... I've wondered about the merits of those 6 ounces per 5 gallons. Everything runs like a champ and starts first pull, even after stored for long periods, and even when I wasn't using non-ethanol. Go figure!


Thanks for your post.




TooTall999 said:


> Seafoam is not recommended for fuel storage as it's an ethanol based formula. Needless to say adding Seafoam to any gas increases the percentage of ethanol, so I don't know why anyone would do this.


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## EdwardC (Sep 26, 2016)

I agree with the above, I put the stabilizer right into the gas can. In some areas, you can still find ethanol free gas, and in some of those cases, it's only for premium. That would be a reasonable reason to go with premium. In my area, it's all 10% ethanol, and in that case, I go with the regular. 

Tomatillo, are you using the Sea Foam in addition to a separate fuel stabilizer? I've seen Sea Foam primarily sold as a fuel system cleaner, and as a stabilizer secondarily. I wonder if the cleaning ability is the real benefit you're seeing, and pure tends to last longer, so you haven't needed a stabilizer. 

As for gas cans, I've been buying steel NATO style gas cans, with real NATO spouts. Some have the EPA spouts that are messier, but the real ones vent as you pour.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

Wow -- turns out Sea Foam is a _*phenomenal*_ fuel stabilizer, perfect for, and intended for, fuel storage. All I knew was that _*it flat out works*_, when nothing else I tried worked as well. After the recommendation I followed years ago, I understood that firsthand.

I just spoke with the manufacturer and learned much as to how the product performs and why it has worked so well for me, at the ratio I use, which is 6 oz. per 5 gallons.

Firstly, the HUGE misconception is that it is ethanol based. It absolutely is _*not; *therefore, you are not adding ethanol to your non-ethanol fuel_.

It has a very small amount of pure IPA in it to preserve pump-fresh flash point, which it does exceptionally well. It's also what is used in fuel driers (dry-gas) to disburse water. I figure this is a very good thing if you've ever opened your fuel cap with fine snow blowing.

The product is an antioxidant and is a solvent to keep the gum from forming. It does _this_ exceptionally well, too.

I don't want to be a Sea Foam commercial. I wondered for a long time about this ethanol myth. It has no ethanol in it, and using it in my non-ethanol fuel keeps the fuel vapors at a pump-fresh flash point and keeps the gum away.

Again, all I know is it has worked tremendously in my Honda gens for the 6 years I've been using it.

It flat out works. Now I have a better understanding why.




TooTall999 said:


> Seafoam is not recommended for fuel storage as it's an ethanol based formula. Needless to say adding Seafoam to any gas increases the percentage of ethanol, so I don't know why anyone would do this.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

No. I'm using it as the stabilizer. Previously I used Stabil and it didn't work on the small jets on the Honda generators I was using. They still gummed. Then I switched to PRI-G. Better, but it still gummed up in time. Then the undeniable small engine genius and renowned carburetor master introduced me to Sea Foam for fuel storage. I never looked back, and I haven't had to clean a carb since on machines I fuel with the stuff added.

Thanks, I'll have to check out the NATO cans.




EdwardC said:


> Tomatillo, are you using the Sea Foam in addition to a separate fuel stabilizer? I've seen Sea Foam primarily sold as a fuel system cleaner, and as a stabilizer secondarily. I wonder if the cleaning ability is the real benefit you're seeing, and pure tends to last longer, so you haven't needed a stabilizer.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

I (do not) use Seafoam for fuel storage. I use it for keeping the carburator as clean as possible. If I do not use all of the gas through the winter season, what is left over, gets put in to the car in the spring. 

Ever since I experienced what Seafoam did for the carburetor on my Tecumseh H-70, it made me a believer.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

Kielbasa said:


> I (do not) use Seafoam for fuel storage. I use it for keeping the carburator as clean as possible. If I do not use all of the gas through the winter season, what is left over, gets put in to the car in the spring.
> 
> Ever since I experienced what Seafoam did for the carburetor on my Tecumseh H-70, it made me a believer.


I'm sort of along those lines, too. Fuel treated to keep carbs clean. According to Brian Miller with Sea Foam, there are three main ingredients in the product. All of them are petroleum derived. They prevent corrosion, clean as a solvent, lubricate and have antioxidant properties.

I attached pictures of the bottom of the fuel caps I replaced. The old ones had white scaly stuff on the bottom of them. You guys have probably seen it. I don't know whether it was corrosion or what, but since the Sea Foam in the gas there is none of that stuff. So I figure that crud that was on the bottom of the gas caps had to flake off and get into the jets and form on a dry fuel bowl. Not anymore. See pics.


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## DaBomb6988 (Dec 27, 2016)

I use add these to my non-vented cans works great!


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

You still need a fuel stabilizer even if it is ethanol free. Fuel gets old. Won't work as well.


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## Kielbasa (Dec 21, 2013)

Seafoam can be used as a stabilizer. 


Stabilize Gas and Diesel Fuels
Stabilizing fuel means to help fuel resist the oxidation and evaporation of petroleum hydrocarbons. Oxidized fuel, known as gum and varnish, is the most common cause of poor engine function. Unlike most other gas and diesel fuel stabilizer products, Sea Foam Motor Treatment is also a high-temp cleaner and upper cylinder lubricant – Sea Foam will dissolve gum and varnish that has ALREADY formed, overcoming lost engine power and function. More, Sea Foam resists fuel evaporation, adds petroleum lubricity and corrosion protection to engine parts, and will hold a fuel’s flashpoint over a long storage period. Sea Foam only contains highly-refined petroleum ingredients. It does NOT have harsh detergent of abrasive chemicals that can harm your engine.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Some good info about where to find ethanol-free gasoline here: Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada


As for the questions, here's my take on them from past experience:

1) Fuel stabilizers are a waste of money. Gasoline, especially premium gasoline with no ethanol (such as Shell premium out here) has a shelf life that extends well beyond any winter season, unless you're in Antarctica. As such, fill a small gas container with ethanol-free premium and forget about adding any other junk to it. Just refill the Toro with unmolested gasoline as it runs out. If there's any gas left over in the can once winter season ends, just dump the rest of it in your car or truck. Repeat for next season.

As for storing your snowblower, always store it DRY (as in no gas in the tank, gas lines or carburetor). The way I do it is that I start the machine, shut off the fuel switch on my fuel line and let it starve to a halt. I then drain all the gas from the tank into a container by disconnecting the fuel line at the tank and dump that gas into my truck as well (which will happily eat it all). Once the Toro's fuel tank is empty and the fuel lines are too, store it for the summer in your shed, etc. Again, no need for "stabilizers" if there's no gas in it to begin with! 


2) I use higher octane premium with no adverse effects and it keeps my old 1977 carburetor very clean and happy. That's probably because there's no junk ethanol in it, which would leave varnish and gummy deposits in all the tiny fuel passages of the carb. The extra few cents for that premium gas really go a long way!

3) Any proportionately sized gas can will do just fine if you're careful when you refill. Out here in Canada, I use a "Scepter" brand 10L gas can. I fill it up and I usually have 1/4 to 1/2 of it left when spring comes. Into the truck it goes at that point and the container sits empty till next season.


*P.S. * I also fill my gas can in mid-fall, as winter gas has anti-freezing additives in it that I don't want in my snowblower. I essentially run it on pure summer gasoline, lol!


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

My experience says otherwise. 
Small engines now a days are more or less the same small engines from the 70s and 80s, save for that EFI crap that they are now just starting to stick on some of the engines. There is no "special" engineering out there to make them run better or not with ethanol. These are small engines, not the complex crap that are in automobiles. At the altitude I live at, running 91 octane results in **** poor performance from the small engines in my weed eater, snowblowers, & lawn mowers. I run 85 octane. It has ethanol. I treat it with Stabil-360 and it does juuuuuuuuuuust fine. And I'll rub that in the face of anyone who says fuel stabilizers are not needed. The only non-ethanol fuels sold around here are at 2 shops about 30 miles away and only sold in 91 octane. Same **** poor performance when I ran it in my equipment, even without the ethanol. 
I've had no major issues on my carbs when I've used ethanol fuels and a good fuel stabilizer/treatment. When I have not used a stabilizer, there is a noticeable difference 6 or 8 months later when I go to use the equipment. It runs like crap until I get that fuel out. But I no longer run my carbs dry. Too many cracked seals & gaskets. I've learned my lesson on that.


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## DuffyJr (Oct 15, 2015)

KiterTodd said:


> Nice! Not only do I like no spill Jill, that can looks like exactly what I'm looking for.
> Thanks!
> 
> Does anyone have these? Ahhhh....who am I kidding. I was impatient and just bought the 2.5 gallon version on Amazon.


I purchased the 2.5 version a couple years ago and love it. After reading reviews on the other so called no spill cans they all said they spilled more than the old style or were difficult to use. The only bad thing I've found with these is they don't work well for adding gas to a vehicle, you need a funnel or I kept my 30 year old container and if I have any left over after winter I transfer it to that then to the truck.

Make sure and read the instructions. Before each use after you pull the cap off the nozzle you need to burp or vent it before you start filling you equipment. Other wise it works just like the lovely Jill demonstrates. The automatic shut off has worked every time for me, just stick the nozzle in the opening, pull trigger and it stops when full.

Sounds like you only have access to E10 so take the advice here and use Marine Stable, Sea form or something that is specifically designer to work with E10 . I'm lucky and have always had access to E0 for a reasonable price so I use red Sta-bil. I've had good luck with Star Tron for it's cleaning abilities but it's suppose to be a stabilizer as well.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

Carbs - to run dry or not is an age old debate with wise people on both sides.

You can't run them dry completely. Gas will still be in the bowl unless you drain it with the drain screw. Are you going to wipe it out? What about the tank now? Will you wipe it dry? What will your rag leave behind? The gas that remains in the bowl will gum up. Remove your bowl and take a look. Also, if you haven't been adding non-corrosive stabilizer, you'll probably have the white powder of death in there. It's oxidation and nearly impossible to remove. It flakes and clogs as well.

I say keep em *filled *with Sea Foam treated fuel.

Experiment that was suggested in a boating forum: Fill a baby food jar all the way up with fuel. Take another one and pour in a tablespoon of the same gas. Cap them and wait a month. Author claims the full one will not be fouled, but the one with only a teaspoon in it will be. I suppose the same test could be run with your favorite additives, and no additive at all. Watch phase separation, etc.


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## The Q (Dec 19, 2016)

Non-Ethanol fuel is easily obtainable where I live. I run it in my snowblower and my motorcycle. I also add Seafoam to my gas can and have stored my snowblower filled up over the summer for the last 18 yrs. I have had *zero *problems doing it this way. I also have stored my Harley filled up like this for the last 4 yrs. and will continue to because this is what works for me.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

E-0 gas untreated - stable versus unstable fuel meaning and pics:


I found this --

https://seafoamsales.com/a-quick-visual-lesson-on-gasoline/


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## KiterTodd (Dec 16, 2016)

DuffyJr said:


> I purchased the 2.5 version a couple years ago and love it. After reading reviews on the other so called no spill cans they all said they spilled more than the old style or were difficult to use. The only bad thing I've found with these is they don't work well for adding gas to a vehicle, you need a funnel or I kept my 30 year old container and if I have any left over after winter I transfer it to that then to the truck....


When I purchased by No-Spill Jill can on Amazon, they also showed a filler extension you can buy for the reasons you stated. It says the auto stop feature will still work. May be worth looking up.
Thanks for the tips.

I bought the Toro branded fuel stabilizer/additive. Hopefully it is in the "doesn't suck" category. Seems to be a lot of debate regarding what should be used.


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## JD in NJ (Dec 21, 2016)

KiterTodd said:


> I bought the Toro branded fuel stabilizer/additive. Hopefully it is in the "doesn't suck" category. Seems to be a lot of debate regarding what should be used.


Yes, there is. It seems to me that much of the problem is that we're reading anecdotal evidence, which isn't all that useful when it comes to determining what is truly best. "It worked for me" is not really all that useful, although a long history of it may point us in the right direction. The simple facts are that some folks have gotten worse gas than others, some folks have had more ideal weather conditions than others, and I'm willing to bet that my carb isn't identical to yours. Memories aren't perfect either. What we'd really need are controlled tests with identical fuel, identical machines and identical conditions. It's the only way to really find out which stabilizers are likely to help us the most.


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## LouC (Dec 5, 2016)

I have not drained any of our stuff except a Suzuki DF 2.5 four stroke outboard that is very sensitive to clogging. Every year when I winterize our old boat (1988 Four Winns H-200 with an OMC 4.3 I/O, Rochester Q-Jet 4bbl carb), I pour out the gas in the filter and let it sit in a mason jar. Here is a sample from this past season, this gas (E-10) was probably at least a year old but stabilized.
BTW, this is from an original 29 year old aluminum marine tank, the boat is on the water all season on a salt water mooing, so its exposed to high humidity levels, and is also during winter storage because our climate here in Long Island is very damp.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Tomatillo said:


> Q3) JustRite Type II Safety Can...I'm a fanatic on gas and gas cans...


I can vouch for how safe these cans are. 

One day, years ago, in my first year with the US Forest Service, working with a crew on timber management in the middle of winter, we built a warming fire about mid day.

Whoever started the fire, didn't build it correctly and it went out – or so our crew leader thought. He picked up a JustRite Type II 2-1/2 gal can filled with saw mix and proceeded to "help" the fire restart. 

I was about 75' away tending to my saw when I turned and noticed Ján pouring from the 2/5 can right into the glowing embers of the fire.

As expected, flames shot right up to the spout and in shock he just circled around with a flaming can as I yelled for him to drop it. As luck would have it, he had let go of the trigger just in time so there was only fuel in the nozzle.

It didn't blow up...and our crew went on to manage timber tracts together for a few more years.

To this day, I'm not sure if he really let go of the trigger that fast or is there something built in to the can to prevent blow back, but I can say the experience sold me on those Type II cans for the rest of my life.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

jrom said:


> flames shot right up to the spout and in shock he just circled around with a flaming can


 
Great story, jrom, and testimonial for the safety that can. I wonder if it is designed that way or whether his guardian angel was really on the ball that day. Regardless, talk about pucker factor ....


Interesting work you do.


I need to pick up some 2.5 gallon cans like that. Mine are all 5 gallon.


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

JD in NJ said:


> What we'd really need are controlled tests with identical fuel, identical machines and identical conditions. It's the only way to really find out which stabilizers are likely to help us the most.


 
You're right, JD! We need an independent test for fuel stabilizers, just like this guy did for gun CLPs:












Comprehensive Corrosion Test: 46 Products Compared : Day At The Range


If anyone knows where to find such a comparison for fuel stabilizers, it would be a great resource to stop all the guesswork.


I'd love to see a comparison using the same E-10 fuel with Sta-Bil and its variants, Sea Foam, Marvel, StarTron, Lucas, and several others. Maybe I'll get it done one of these days.


Does anyone know of any independent test like this?


Thanks!


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

jrom, that can design probably saved your buddy's life, as you said. I'm following up after just receiving the 2 cans I ordered. You're right; it has a "flash arrester" that prevents flash back into the can. If you ever use one with a broken screen, replace it. That's the mechanism that stopped the explosion that day. I thought it was just to keep junk out.


Anyway, see the text I highlighted about that on the literature that came with the two cans today.














jrom said:


> As expected, flames shot right up to the spout and in shock he just circled around with a flaming can as I yelled for him to drop it. As luck would have it, he had let go of the trigger just in time so there was only fuel in the nozzle.
> 
> It didn't blow up...and our crew went on to manage timber tracts together for a few more years.
> 
> To this day, I'm not sure if he really let go of the trigger that fast or is there something built in to the can to prevent blow back, but I can say the experience sold me on those Type II cans for the rest of my life.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

^^^^
Aaah, makes sense now. Thanks for the info Tom.

To be honest, I'm not using one at this time. Gave one away years ago to someone who needed it more than me and was going through some eco hardship. 

Since I'm new to having a blower with a 12v starter and using a 110v tender, safety has come back up the front of my pea brain. Looks like it's time to save some dinero up for another one. I'll probably go for a 2.5 first as it'll be the one I use for filling at the tanks. 

Appreciate you posting about it and thanks for the link to zoro...best price too.

- Joe


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

jrom said:


> Thanks for the info Tom.



You got it, Joe. :icon-cheers:


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Tomatillo said:


> Carbs - to run dry or not is an age old debate with wise people on both sides.
> 
> You can't run them dry completely. Gas will still be in the bowl unless you drain it with the drain screw. Are you going to wipe it out? What about the tank now? Will you wipe it dry? What will your rag leave behind? The gas that remains in the bowl will gum up. Remove your bowl and take a look. Also, if you haven't been adding non-corrosive stabilizer, you'll probably have the white powder of death in there. It's oxidation and nearly impossible to remove. It flakes and clogs as well.
> 
> I say keep em *filled *with Sea Foam treated fuel..



For corrosion resistance and to keep the seals "oiled", I have added a bit of Lucas Upper Cylinder lubricant to my gas in the past. I didn't do it this year though, as I ran out and never remembered to buy another jug of the stuff... :icon-doh: A gallon is about $30, so not that expensive considering you use very little of it each time.

It has the look, feel and consistency of motor oil (although Lucas claims it's something much higher tech) and makes gas a bit more "greasy". From what I've read on it on car/truck forums, because of the newest EPA and similar "save the baby seals from global warming" standards, gasoline has much fewer active lubricants in it these days (vs. what it used to have), which results in more wear on your cylinders and premature engine failure. The Lucas upper cylinder lube seemed to be the favorite amongst the guys there. According to what it says on the product itself, it's supposed to keep your cylinders running smooth and clean + apparently removes carbon deposits from inside the engine too, kind of like an injector treatment. It says it can be used on any engine, gas or diesel. I don't consider this a stabilizer (because it's not) or even an additive in the strict sense of the word... it's simply extra lubrication for your gasoline. I did notice a small MPG improvement while using it on my truck though, so it's definitely helping those cylinders move a little freer. Metal loves lube, lol!

I wonder if using such a lubricant in your gas would still leave any signs of corrosion in the carb bowl or any other harmful residue for that matter, in the long term... the stuff is pretty greasy and most certainly will leave a thin layer of oil behind on everything it comes in contact with, even when the gas evaporates at some point. Technically speaking, metal parts that are oiled will not suffer oxidation. At least that'd be my theory...

:smiley-confused013:


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

I'd bet it wouldn't corrode a thing. I'd wonder about plug fouling if it's that greasy when mixed, but even Sea Foam has good things to say about its "lubricity," so who knows.


I think JD had it right -- we need a good independent review of the major stabilizer products. Thing is, the test would take a year or two to complete, to be thorough. Who wants to have a bunch of glass Ball jars filled with gas for that long. If I had a big enough shop with an out of the way place I might do it. If the major players had great results, I'd expect to see that from them.


All I know is what worked for me, so that's what I'll stick with. I suspect you'll do the same with Lucas.




762mm said:


> For corrosion resistance and to keep the seals "oiled", I have added a bit of Lucas ...
> 
> 
> I wonder if using such a lubricant in your gas would still leave any signs of corrosion in the carb bowl or any other harmful residue for that matter, in the long term.


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## 762mm (Dec 22, 2014)

Tomatillo said:


> All I know is what worked for me, so that's what I'll stick with. I suspect you'll do the same with Lucas.


Yup, that's the plan... and if I ever have to rebuild that carb on the old Toro, I'll just take it as another challenge. I've rebuilt a small carb on a gas weed whacker last summer with a kit I got off eBay for like $5 and it was a really straight forward procedure. I imagine it would be similar on my 1977 Toro as well.

That being said, I am a lot more concerned about engine longevity than I am about the carburetor or spark plug, hence why my priority is making sure the cylinders slide nice and free. I also use synthetic oil for the crankcase, just because it flows better at low temps and is more resilient overall. As for fouling the spark plug, I got me a small copper brush the other day at a hardware store for a buck or two that I plan on using to clean spark plugs on my small engine equipment. I've done that in the past and it gets them shiny clean, like new again. That, plus a little bit of a re-gap and you're golden. 

I've used Seafoam once to clean carbon on my truck (by pouring it into the brake booster hose, as per instructions found online) and, aside form a bunch of white smoke coming out the exhaust pipe, couldn't tell the difference in responsiveness or MPG. The small can of the stuff cost me $10 though. I later learned that you could do the same "treatment" with ordinary water (for free). It kind of left a sour taste in my mouth, lol... :icon_cussing_black:


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

Don't blame you. Would have felt the same. This gentleman taught me all I know about carbs: Lawn mower Repair and Small Engine Repair Videos By Lawnmowerman Inc | Lawnmowerman Inc. I bought a bunch of things from him, and the best video set and investment along those lines I could have purchased. After several calls to him, over time, he was generous to tell me how to keep the problems from happening in the first place. I listened. Before that, I considered stuff like Sea Foam, Mystery Oil, Lucas, and even Sta-Bil all a bunch of hooey. Snake oil. See I was still having to clean the carbs regardless of Sta-Bil and a superior product (so I thought) called PRI-G. _ Not!_ Anyway, Since his tip years ago, I haven't had to clean a carb, and I'm grateful and wanted to share. With his videos, I know I can clean em if I have to, after a monster storm when the shops are closed and backlogged, or in the middle of the night. Even though I'll be throwing wrenches at that hour, it's a good feeling to know I'll get it right when it's done and I'll be back to a functioning machine.


Re. the spark plug, I've seen people just burning them with a torch. I've cleaned them with emery cloth, but I'm always afraid that despite the compressor and air, I'll get some grit in there. I pop for the new plug. Maybe I'm wasting the buckos.




762mm said:


> couldn't tell the difference in responsiveness or MPG. The small can of the stuff cost me $10 though. I later learned that you could do the same "treatment" with ordinary water (for free). It kind of left a sour taste in my mouth, lol...


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## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

no you are not wasting buckos. Just get a new spark plug for $3.99 from your local NAPA and be done with it!


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## Tomatillo (Nov 11, 2016)

GoBlowSnow said:


> no you are not wasting buckos. Just get a new spark plug for $3.99 from your local NAPA and be done with it!



Yep. That's what I do these days. Thanks.


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