# Bolt Next to Gearbox Broke



## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

So, the bolt next to my auger gearbox on my 1332 snapped off! I didn't think this bolt was meant to shear? It is a type of bolt that has like a cotter pin that goes through it. So now of course that side of the auger isn't spinning while in use. Problem is, I can't slide a new bolt through there because the hole is clogged up with what seems to be a part of the old bolt still stuck inside(as you can see in the second pic) and I can't get it out. What to do? If I take in into the dealer, they'll probably have this for a month before they even look at it grrrr. This machine has given me more headaches in 4 uses than my toro gave me in 6 years, all at 3.5x the cost!


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

thats the shear pin. be glad that it did its job and broke instead of ruining your gearbox. use only genuine honda shear pins, never bolts


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

I bought shear pins from honda, and the pin that broke looks nothing like what they provided me with. 

The first pic is the other side of the auger showing the pin that broke. 

The second pic is me pointing to what I am told is the pin that's supposed to shear, which makes sense as it is exactly the same type of pin that honda sold me to use for it!

The third pic is a better view of the pin I am pointing out in the second pic. 

And again, my big issue here is I cannot slide a new pin through the hole in the gearbox shaft as the hole is clogged with a remnant of the pin that broke with no way of me getting it out(you can clearly see the clog I am talking about in the second pic of my original post above). And the fact that the pin broke and left remnants inside the gearbox shaft which I now can't remove(I've tried hammering it out using a nail and I've tried drilling it) tells me that that isn't what's designed to happen. Why would honda design a pin such that the top and bottom part of the pin shears off but leaves the center of the pin still stuck inside that shaft with no way of getting it out? Makes no sense, something is flawed here.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

Just in 4 uses with this snowblower I've found that the auger lever interlock only works when it wants to, the chute has clogged a couple of times and now I got a pin broke that I cannot replace - it's going to have to go into the shop and I'll probably be without it for a month all the while we are in our biggest storm month and I'll be shoveling. Never had a single hitch with my $1500 toro. This $5400(in Canada, 15% sales taxes in my province) Honda is just a pain in the ass, what a waste of money. They should have stuck with their previous design.


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## JayzAuto1 (Jul 25, 2016)

As far as what's designed to break, I cant be sure on that model. although it certainly looks like a shear pin..... But a 'nail?' won't have enough strength to knock that out. You need a 12" long taper pinch and substantial hammer to knock it out. It doesn't need to go to the shop, you can do it yourself. Try rocking the auger back and forth until the holes line up. Line up the taper punch and give it a good whack. GLuck, J


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

In the video above, starting at 28 seconds, he states "there is what looks like a shear pin here... this is not supposed to break". 

That's just what I thought. But guess what, that is what's broke on mine.


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

Marlow said:


> I bought shear pins from honda, and the pin that broke looks nothing like what they provided me with.
> 
> The first pic is the other side of the auger showing the pin that broke.
> 
> ...


Marlow,
I'm confused with your back and forth about the two bolts your questioning but, if you go to a honda dealer with model and serial #s and walk over to a similar machine it will be clear to the dealer what you need. From the picture and description you definitely have a sheared pin which as mentioned before is a good thing. Worry not here please as I will explain why you aren't able to drive out the slug which remains in the solid axle of the transmission. You know the shear pin sheared as only one side is driven by the gear box hence the oher one is free wheeling. From your picture of the hole I see your issue. You will need to align the hole of the auger tube with the hole of the gear shaft perfectly. In the picture it's clearly misaligned and therefore hammering at the slug gets you nowhere. By rotating the auger one way or the other to align properly you will see the full round portion of the pin. Thats when you need drive it out as you mentioned earlier. Once the pin has where to go, It'll be gone.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

Just boggles my mind that pin would be the first to break, thereby leaving a metal shard stuck inside the gearbox shaft that I can't get out. Yet, the bolt on the auger which is the one that Honda actually designed to break.....didn't. My brother has his Honda for 10 years now and he said its always been the bolt that goes through the auger horizontally that shears, and not the one that goes through the gearbox shaft.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

all3939 said:


> Marlow,
> You know the shear pin sheared as only one side is driven by the gear box hence the oher one is free wheeling. From your picture of the hole I see your issue. You will need to align the hole of the auger tube with the hole of the gear shaft perfectly. In the picture it's clearly misaligned and therefore hammering at the slug gets you nowhere.


LOL I am not as dumb as I seem. Of course I know to align the holes. The picture was taken just to illustrate the shard stuck in there. When I was hammering it was perfectly aligned. And the two bolts that I am talking about were clearly pointed out in the video in post 6.


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

Marlow said:


> LOL I am not as dumb as I seem. Of course I know to align the holes. The picture was taken just to illustrate the shard stuck in there. When I was hammering it was perfectly aligned. And the two bolts that I am talking about were clearly pointed out in the video in post 6.


Sometimes they don't shear clean and can have a bad bur. As you drive it, it makes its way in too and that is what jams it in tight. Again why that pin broke and not the other is anyones guess. I have a ariens which obviously has a different set up with the shear pins and I've had it happen twice too. Once it was easy but the other time it gave me a work out. In my situation I've noticed it's easy to remove if the pin sheared completely on the first hit and it gets sheared clean. Sometimes you hit something and it doesn't shear but bends slightly. When it finally shears at some point the slug isn't straight anymore.
As mentioned earlier something more solid and hefty will give it a better blow to remove it.
In the more standard style shear pin the instructions clearly describe not to tighten the bolt to the point where the auger tube is pinched tight against the shaft. Rather leave slight play so it jiggles a bit this way it shears and not the gear box. Perhaps in your situation if the actual shear bolt is overthightened, that may cause the the next thing in line to go.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

Marlow said:


> Just in 4 uses with this snowblower I've found that the auger lever interlock only works when it wants to, the chute has clogged a couple of times and now I got a pin broke that I cannot replace - it's going to have to go into the shop and I'll probably be without it for a month all the while we are in our biggest storm month and I'll be shoveling. Never had a single hitch with my $1500 toro. This $5400(in Canada, 15% sales taxes in my province) Honda is just a pain in the ass, what a waste of money. They should have stuck with their previous design.


Whoever's counting, don't miss the clogging complaint. 

Yours is the new hss1132 right?


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Marlow said:


> LOL I am not as dumb as I seem...


...That you're using a nail to try and get it out detracts slightly from that statement... no offense, sorry. 

Five minutes on the internet says it's a standard 7mm x 40 mm pin, should be available at any decent hardware store.

Here's one on Ebay: Honda 90757-767-000 90757-767-000 PIN (7X40) (Honda Code 4914982) | eBay

Here's a link to a parts diagram: Honda HSS1332A ATD SNOW BLOWER, JPN, VIN# SAFA-1000001 Parts Diagram for AUGER

You could of course order one from Jack's there too...

Put that nail down anyhow before you really wedge the thing in there, a trip to the hardware store would also be the perfect opportunity to pick up a couple of proper hardened-steel punches. Yes the right tool does make all the difference.

Any reason to suspect a different size, pull the good side out and measure to double check.

Edit: Those pins *will* shear... perhaps used here as secondary safeties in case someone installs improper shear bolts in the primary locations. It's also a .50c part, not unheard of to get a 'bad' one.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> ...That you're using a nail to try and get it out detracts slightly from that statement... no offense, sorry.


You've got to work with what you have, all the stores are closed for christmas and don't reopen here until the 27th. I figured it just needed a little tap out, not that it was jammed in there so snug it wouldn't budge - I was wrong. Sorry, I've only worked with better designed snowblowers in the past. 



Yanmar Ronin said:


> Edit: Those pins *will* shear... perhaps used here as secondary safeties in case someone installs improper shear bolts in the primary locations. It's also a .50c part, not unheard of to get a 'bad' one.


The snowblower is brand new. If the shear bolts in there were improper, then that would have been done at the factory. Perhaps they're dumber than me? :icon-shocked:


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

matto said:


> Whoever's counting, don't miss the clogging complaint.
> 
> Yours is the new hss1132 right?


Yes, it's a Canadian model HSS 1332ACT. 
My brothers '06 928 has never clogged and has never sheared the bolt that goes through the shaft like mine just did. These new redesigns are far from improved, that's for sure!


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Marlow said:


> ...If the shear bolts in there were improper, then that would have been done at the factory...


That's not what I said.

Good luck with the repairs.

:smiley-greet025:


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> That's not what I said.
> 
> Good luck with the repairs.
> 
> :smiley-greet025:


Yeah it is. You speculated that maybe the bolt mine snapped was designed to do so as a secondary line of defense in the case somebody used improper bolts in the primary shearing spot. I replied that the only way the primary bolts would have been improper in this case is if they were improper from the factory as the machine is brand new(those bolts have never been sheared and therefore never replaced).


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I had the same pin shear last year on my hss928. All of the hardware on the auger assembly is designed to break before the gearbox does but.... That pin should not shear before the designated bolt does. Either way I bought some extra pins.

My reasoning for the pin breaking before the bolt is the shear bolts are over torqued from the factory. If the bolt is applying to much squeeze between the auger parts then the static friction will resist sliding effectively making a new weak link down the line that will shear, or break.

I retorqed all my shear bolts to factory specs.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

drmerdp said:


> I had the same pin shear last year on my hss928.


Annoying that the dealership didn't provide me with any of those pins when I bought a pile of shear bolts for my machine. I asked to to give me what I needed. 

Anyway, I managed to pound out the shard that was stuck in there using a screwdriver(dumb right? LOL you've got to work with what you got!). Now I have a pile of snow in the driveway and the machine won't be usable until tomorrow when the dealership opens and I get some new pins.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

When I broke that pin last year I used a mtd shear pin temporarily to finish out the storm. Maybe one of your neighbors has a spare laying around.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

Are shear pins really something that need a second layer of protection? 

Particularly when Toro markets their system as not needing shear pins at all?


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

matto said:


> Are shear pins really something that need a second layer of protection?
> 
> Particularly when Toro markets their system as not needing shear pins at all?


The Toro ones will shear, but very rarely. They are far tougher to shear than the Honda's. Honda's are known to shear the bolts quite easily/frequently, easier than any other machine I've heard off. Odd considering they are the most expensive in their class(along with Yamaha). Toro obviously has much more confidence in the strength of their parts.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I guess it all depends on the gear material in the transmission. 

If the gears are bronze or mild Steel the shear bolts are absolutely necessary. Toro advertises their gear box as utilizing harden steel gears. I have heard or toro users hitting something that stalls the engine. So they remove the ubstruction and restart the engine and continue with their business.

On the flip side, I don't like the idea of abruptly stalling an engine at high RPMs. Their is a lot of inertia in a reciprocating engine and a sudden stop could likely damage something. 

Even Ariens cast iron gear box design uses shear bolts on the auger... So the gears must not be hardened or they simply don't want to take the chance for Warrenty purposes.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

drmerdp said:


> I guess it all depends on the gear material in the transmission.
> 
> If the gears are bronze or mild Steel the shear bolts are absolutely necessary. Toro advertises their gear box as utilizing harden steel gears.
> 
> Even Ariens cast iron gear box design uses shear bolts on the auger... So the gears must not be hardened or they simply don't want to take the chance for Warrenty purposes.


That's all fine and dandy. But what's with Honda having two different sets of shear bolts/pins? Especially when the seem to break easier than any others on the market? 

Seems strange.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

Those clevis pins are regular steel pins, not shear type. I'd double check to see if the dealer installed proper shear bolts and not just regular steel bolts. Seems like you hit something hard for the pin to break where as the bolt should have been the one that should have been broken. Check the bolt to make sure its shear type. 

Also, looking at the pictures you posted it also seems like your skid shoes are not adjusted properly and/or you need the side mounted heavy duty skids asap as I can see wear mark on the augers due to hitting the pavement, that also could have been the reason for you to have broken the pin.

BTW rather than using a nail to hammer out the old pin, just use a pin punch if you can find one from your local hardware store. If you dont have one or cant find one then an old Phillips head screwdriver should do the trick.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I can't help but wonder if the Honda shear bolts do in fact break most frequently or does the $price of the machine$ invoke greater frustration and a bigger response. 

When I sheared a pin on my 928 last year it was my own fault. I just bought the house a few months earlier and forgot the location of a rock in my back yard while I was clearing a path for my dog. I was annoyed that the pin not included in my replacement kit sheared, but happy something gave in and it wasn't my gearbox.

Can't hurt to loosen and retorque the shear bolts to spec.


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## JnC (Feb 21, 2014)

drmerdp said:


> I can't help but wonder if the Honda shear bolts do in fact break most frequently or does the $price of the machine$ invoke greater frustration and a bigger response.


Indeed, at their price point Honda machines are held to a higher standard, rightfully so as well. 


I have been using Honda 2 stage blowers for two years now, I have used 5~6 different machines and have yet to break a shear bolt and my machines have chewed through some hard stuff over this time. 

This is how I look at it, if the augers hit a rock I much rather loose a $2 shear bolt than a $400+ auger transmission, knowing that the rock isnt going to loose anything.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

JnC said:


> Those clevis pins are regular steel pins, not shear type. I'd double check to see if the dealer installed proper shear bolts and not just regular steel bolts. Seems like you hit something hard for the pin to break where as the bolt should have been the one that should have been broken. Check the bolt to make sure its shear type.
> 
> Also, looking at the pictures you posted it also seems like your skid shoes are not adjusted properly and/or you need the side mounted heavy duty skids asap as I can see wear mark on the augers due to hitting the pavement, that also could have been the reason for you to have broken the pin.
> 
> BTW rather than using a nail to hammer out the old pin, just use a pin punch if you can find one from your local hardware store. If you dont have one or cant find one then an old Phillips head screwdriver should do the trick.


Yeah I knew they weren't shear pins, I called 3 family members with Honda's and none have ever snapped that bolt nor had any on hand they could give me because they've never had the need for them(was looking for somebody to have one they could give me because the dealership is closed until the 27th). I ended up punching the shard of metal out with a hammer and a screwdriver after. And yes you are right, I do need heavy duty side skids. The price I paid for this machine it should have came with them to begin with! But Honda will nickle and dime you everywhere they can! Gotta say if I had my time back I would have gotten the Toro 1128 this time around, it would have saved me a ton of money, the performance difference would be negligible and I'd have less headaches with it.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

I just adjusted the skid shoes. With the way they were adjusted before from the dealer, when I put the bucket as low as it could go it would be sitting on the ground. So on a level surface, I wedged a stack of 2 paint sticks under each side of the bucket and adjusted the skids so that would be the lowest level. We'll see how that works out.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

If I was in the market for a wheeled machine, I would have most likely bought an 1128 too. But since I needed a tracked machine, the Honda was the best option. (In my opinion)


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## taxihacker (Oct 2, 2016)

Marlow there is a recall on the interlock system Honda covers it


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

Marlo, if you happen to have an aluminum bolt around the house of 1/4" diameter, and long enough, that will work and keep you safe.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

all3939 said:


> Marlo, if you happen to have an aluminum bolt around the house of 1/4" diameter, and long enough, that will work and keep you safe.


Hey, thanks for the suggestion. I had nothing laying around that would work. Today I did use the snowblower to clear the snow. With only the left auger working I just did half cuts using that side of the bucket. Wasn't perfect but was better than shoveling for sure. I'll get it all fixed up tomorrow when the shops open again.


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

Marlow said:


> Hey, thanks for the suggestion. I had nothing laying around that would work. Today I did use the snowblower to clear the snow. With only the left auger working I just did half cuts using that side of the bucket. Wasn't perfect but was better than shoveling for sure. I'll get it all fixed up tomorrow when the shops open again.


While you're at it tomorrow get the torque spec on the other shear bolt. As it was mentioned several times, if the other shear bolt was too tight therby creating too strong of a bond between the two parts, thus not allowing a shear action then it may have caused what you had there.


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## all3939 (Dec 21, 2014)

all3939 said:


> While you're at it tomorrow get the torque spec on the other shear bolt. As it was mentioned several times, if the other shear bolt was too tight therby creating too strong of a bond between the two parts, thus not allowing a shear action then it may have caused what you had there.


marlow,
I sort of agree with you. Since your last post I went back to post #3 and studied the picture with the green art work. Honda does have an interesting design here. I also realized the same safety feature (double standard) is applied to the impeller shaft. Couldn't come up with any rhyme or reason you broke that pin over the other one. I'm sure others have had it too. It's going to be one or the other and it's as simple as that. My theory behind the double shear pin is, If someone just like you broke that pin while snowblowing and didn't have the correct replacement, more than likely they will replace it with the first thing they come across not realizing the danger at hand. Now suppose you continue on your merry way and hit something again or forget about it and left it in there without purchasing the true Honda part and some time afterwards the run into something again, you will rip that gear box apart. So what they have done is give you a fail safe system which will protect you even though the first pin was replaced lets say with a grade 8 bolt then the second shear pin will save you. I suspect if you bring back a split open gear box still within warranty they will give you a hard time covering it as it would be obvious the wrong pins were used.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

all3939 said:


> While you're at it tomorrow get the torque spec on the other shear bolt. As it was mentioned several times, if the other shear bolt was too tight therby creating too strong of a bond between the two parts, thus not allowing a shear action then it may have caused what you had there.


All the bolts were factory tightened. And the theory here seems to be that if over tightened, a shear bolt is harder to shear.. I would argue the opposite is true!


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## The Q (Dec 19, 2016)

Marlow said:


> Hey, thanks for the suggestion. I had nothing laying around that would work. Today I did use the snowblower to clear the snow. With only the left auger working I just did half cuts using that side of the bucket. Wasn't perfect but was better than shoveling for sure. I'll get it all fixed up tomorrow when the shops open again.


Smart thinking Marlow! I would also retorque all the remaining bolts on the shaft just to be on the safe side.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

Got the pin replaced. The parts guy at Honda said he is after getting dozens of people come in with those auger shaft pins broken. He said the problem is with the pin itself, it's way to weak. It shouldn't be shearing, if you are hitting something hard the only thing that should be shearing is the shear bolt itself. He said Honda is aware of the issue and they are going to be supplying a new stronger pin like the previous gen machines had to fix it.


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## matto (Nov 5, 2016)

Glad they're doing something about it, but geez.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

matto said:


> Glad they're doing something about it, but geez.


For those that do any decent amount of research when buying expensive outdoor power equipment, you should know there are certain risks with first generation products and those of us who have bought them really are the field beta testers.

I've done it twice now with Honda snowblowers and I'm willing to hang in there with them as they work the bugs out. Not always for the faint of heart.

_Caveat emptor._...but learn how to wrench when the warranty goes...off. 

Hats off to this site and all the good souls who share their knowledge and usually done with a healthy dose of patience to boot.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

I agree, us early hss adopters are sorta beta testers. But the hss was in Canada for a number of years. 

No big deal, Gotta rolling with it.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

drmerdp said:


> ...the hss was in Canada for a number of years.


True, but it was still made in Japan. If it wasn't for the Canadian HSS, I'm not sure I would have been willing to buy a first-gen high-ender so fast.

I was in a rather strange predicament with an offer to get a new blower in exchange for taking care of my sick father-in-law for about 6 months (advanced dementia - not fun for either of us), so I went for it.

Around here neighbors are spread out pretty far and wide...you don't clear, you don't go...work, school, groceries, bowling :smile: (Big Lebowski fan here).

But I still love having it...oh and thank god for backups. Could have really used one several years ago for a couple of months.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

drmerdp said:


> I agree, us early hss adopters are sorta beta testers. But the hss was in Canada for a number of years.
> 
> No big deal, Gotta rolling with it.


I don't know, maybe HSS nametag has been used in Canada for longer? But I am in Canada, this 1332 I have was brand new redesign for 2016 model year.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Marlow said:


> I don't know, maybe HSS nametag has been used in Canada for longer? But I am in Canada, this 1332 I have was brand new redesign for 2016 model year.


Since 2015 – pretty sure those that started shipping in the 4th quarter – the HSS line has been made in the U.S. These are the newest design we're discussing here. The previous HSS models (for Canada) were made in Japan.

Hang in there. Hopefully you will not have any other unusual problems.

To be honest, if our new model teething problems stick to some bad bolts and pins (in easy to access places), bad ratchets in the handles and possibly low hydro fluid, I will be one happy camper!


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

jrom said:


> Since 2015 – pretty sure those that started shipping in the 4th quarter – the HSS line has been made in the U.S. These are the newest design we're discussing here. The previous HSS models (for Canada) were made in Japan.


I said new for 2016 model year. They were first released as 2016 model year, were they not? And yes, as you said this 2016 HSS design is new to Canada too.


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## drmerdp (Feb 9, 2014)

jrom said:


> To be honest, if our new model teething problems stick to some bad bolts and pins (in easy to access places), bad ratchets in the handles and possibly low hydro fluid, I will be one happy camper!


Agreed.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Marlow said:


> I said new for 2016 model year. They were first released as 2016 model year, were they not? And yes, as you said this 2016 HSS design is new to Canada too.


Yes, you did say 2016. It gets a tad confusing as HSS has been used in Canada for a while now. I think Robert clarified the model designators in a post somewhere here. will try to find it...maybe someone will beat me to it.


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

jrom said:


> To be honest, if our new model teething problems stick to some bad bolts and pins (in easy to access places), bad ratchets in the handles and possibly low hydro fluid, I will be one happy camper!


Don't forget chute clogging. The bad chute design on these new HSS is causing clogs as well which has been well documented on here. People are going so far as to cut the bottom collar off the chute(as it seems to be causing a bottleneck effect), add liner AND install impeller kits to solve the issue. After spending $5400, that last thing I want to be doing is hacking and cutting my machine up! Hoping Honda will step up to the plate on this one and come with a new chute design.


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## jrom (Jan 10, 2014)

Marlow said:


> Don't forget chute clogging....After spending $5400, that last thing I want to be doing is...


I should have included the chute clogging, but it hasn't happened to me so it slipped my mind. That one may be a tricky one to see if Honda will do something about it as it could go deep into the auger housing impeller chute area design. Hopefully a modified chute will correct it.

As for laying out $5,400, you have a right to be concerned. If it get worse, you may have to jettison it and go on back to El Toro!


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## Marlow (Dec 17, 2016)

jrom said:


> As for laying out $5,400, you have a right to be concerned. If it get worse, you may have to jettison it and go on back to El Toro!


Unfortunately that may have to be the case, which is very frustrating because I will lose my shirt on the re-sale of this machine. But this issue is absolutely a deal breaker in my environment where most snowfalls are followed by rain.


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