# Newer Ariens models as good as they get... or...



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

So I'm intrigued. Ariens has a solid reputation in making good snow machines. Seeing some pretty die hard brand loyalists on this forum — just check how many people lurk in the Ariens specific forum at one time, impressive I must say.

The phrase "they don't make 'em like they used to" seems common speak around the topic of snowblowers. Is there a specific year / model in which people agree may be the best ever made? Kinda like the 1970s were the golden age of audio recording. Subjective topic I know, but will the newer machines leave behind a legacy as the older units did. Are newer machines disposable? Are materials and technology getting better? Are the demands greater, in which we subject snow removal equipment, which impacts our decisions on what is a solid machine? Are the machines of today future proof?

Just curious.


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

if i were shopping for a new blower i would avoid any mtd or generic chinese blower. i would be looking at a toro, ariens, or honda snowblower.


----------



## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

43128 said:


> if i were shopping for a new blower i would avoid any mtd or generic chinese blower. i would be looking at a toro, ariens, or honda snowblower.


if I were in Canada Yamaha would be on the list also


----------



## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> So I'm intrigued. Ariens has a solid reputation in making good snow machines. Seeing some pretty die hard brand loyalists on this forum — just check how many people lurk in the Ariens specific forum at one time, impressive I must say.
> 
> The phrase "they don't make 'em like they used to" seems common speak around the topic of snowblowers. Is there a specific year / model in which people agree may be the best ever made? Kinda like the 1970s were the golden age of audio recording. Subjective topic I know, but will the newer machines leave behind a legacy as the older units did. Are newer machines disposable? Are materials and technology getting better? Are the demands greater, in which we subject snow removal equipment, which impacts our decisions on what is a solid machine? Are the machines of today future proof?
> 
> Just curious.


An interesting thread, unlike our cars I don't think we have to worry about our snowblowers driving/operating themselves anytime soon and becoming obsolete. Technology has improved but not nearly at the same pace as our cars/trucks. You see some feature improvements like heated grips, LED Headlights,motor driven chute control and Honda's top line HSS has an auger protection system and some include hour meters. They have come a long way in feature content and have implemented some safety features but how they move snow has not really changed that much.

Honda, Ariens and to our friends up North Yamaha are the fan favs on this forum. All 3 of these companies still build high quality machines that employ solid construction along with good design/engineering and customer support (have not dealt w/Yamaha). I would also like to mention the Simplicity Signature Pro series that has stayed true to old school tank-like construction quality.

IMHO many of the other brands and machines out there just don't have the same "visible build quality" of the aforementioned. That is not to say that with proper maintenance and care that the other brands/machines won't serve you well for many years to come.


----------



## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

I'm not sure "we" agree on what's the best snow blower any more than we agree on what's the best oil or brand of spark plug :facepalm_zpsdj194qh

Nothing is future proof but there is only so much you can do to improve the design. A new twist is Honda's anti-climb feature which has half the auger going in an opposite direction. Not available in the U.S. (yet).


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

43128 said:


> if i were shopping for a new blower i would avoid any mtd or generic chinese blower. i would be looking at a toro, ariens, or honda snowblower.


My thought exactly but isn't that tough to accomplish? Even the newer AX series engines (which are probably some of the higher end engines) are made in China. I'm sure it is assembled in the USA but I wonder if materials and such even differ from brand to brand.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

Cardo111 said:


> our friends up North Yamaha are the fan favs on this forum



Being a Canadian myself :icon-hgtg: I wonder why wouldn't Yamaha be available to us fine folks south of the border.


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> Subjective topic I know, but will the newer machines leave behind a legacy as the older units did. Are newer machines disposable? Are materials and technology getting better? Are the demands greater, in which we subject snow removal equipment, which impacts our decisions on what is a solid machine? Are the machines of today future proof?


I don't have the range of machines of others here. My Ariens have ranged from early 90's, to 2000. No experience with the 60's and 70's machines, or the current stuff. 

I don't get the impression that current offerings from good brands are disposable. But I admit that electric controls for chutes, for instance, really make me nervous from a longevity perspective. These machines live in fairly harsh environments, getting wet, then freezing, repeatedly, then sitting idle for months. Small items that can corrode and seize up seem like they will be a challenge in 10 years or so. 

Rightly or wrongly, I include things like quick chute controls (joysticks, levers that automatically unlock and then pivot the chute, etc) in this category, and I wonder about things like Auto Turn as well. Auto Turn can apparently require some adjusting on brand-new machines, so what happens after 10 years? Do automatic lock/unlock chute aiming mechanisms hold up in the long term, or do they become unreliable? 

The current Chinese engines also make me wonder a bit. Will you still be able to get carb rebuild kits for your engine (which might have only been used for 2 model years) in 20 years, like for a Tec/Briggs? Info about an HMSK80 is widely available, they were used on tons of machines, for years. But as the engine market fragments, with suppliers whose names are not as obvious (I probably couldn't tell you who makes an Ariens AX engine from just looking at the blower), how will that play out over time? 

I don't claim to have the answers, but these are the things that concern me. I suspect these areas may matter more than the gauge of the bucket steel, when considering how a new machine will fare after 10 or 20 years. 

Much of our society may consider simply outdoor power equipment disposable, but I don't, and I suspect a good percentage of people on forums like this don't either. If I eventually buy a "new" 2010 blower, in 2025, I want it to still work well


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

Cardo111 said:


> IMHO many of the other brands and machines out the there just don't have the "visible build quality" of the aforementioned. That is not to say that with proper maintenance and care that the other brands/machines won't serve you well for many years to come.


Funny you should mention this, before I purchased the Ariens I researched the crap on another reputable brand. I was in a pinch that day and bought it from a local big box store. I was drawn to it because it looked so good aesthetically. It had dual LED lights wrapped in a plastic enclosure that you really don't see often. A fully adjustable-height control system that was ergonomically friendly and yes, it had hand warmers.

After first use I was impressed as it started on the very first pull (AX engine) I let my wife give it a whirl and immediately she said "I don't like how it feels". Coming from an 12 year old — used 8.0 HP 27" Craftsman I kinda knew why. It felt lighter and just seemed to vibrate more. Sure it threw snow farther than my old machine but it felt like you were hanging on, way too much strain on the forearms. She also mentioned that it sounded terrible, maybe due to a new engine or underpowered, not really sure, but I REALLY wanted to like it. The new machine went back immediately, and now here I am on the Ariens forum. 

As I was breaking in the new machine she walked by and said that she could hear a difference in just how it sounded from the previous machine. I smiled and she walked back into the house. One day we'll get some snow to throw around but for now I like what I see.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> I'm not sure "we" agree on what's the best snow blower any more than we agree on what's the best oil or brand of spark plug :facepalm_zpsdj194qh
> 
> Nothing is future proof but there is only so much you can do to improve the design. A new twist is Honda's anti-climb feature which has half the auger going in an opposite direction. Not available in the U.S. (yet).


Holy smokes. Impressive. Will this take off as slowly as a 3 stage? Are we ready for this...


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> I don't have the range of machines of others here. My Ariens have ranged from early 90's, to 2000. No experience with the 60's and 70's machines, or the current stuff.
> 
> I don't get the impression that current offerings from good brands are disposable. But I admit that electric controls for chutes, for instance, really make me nervous from a longevity perspective. These machines live in fairly harsh environments, getting wet, then freezing, repeatedly, then sitting idle for months. Small items that can corrode and seize up seem like they will be a challenge in 10 years or so.
> 
> ...


Man are you in my head or what... exactly my thoughts. Could not have said it better myself.


----------



## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> Being a Canadian myself :icon-hgtg: I wonder why wouldn't Yamaha be available to us fine folks south of the border.


I completely agree with you. I emailed Yamaha regarding this and they forwarded me to an office in California I never followed through. It really does not make sense, they must think that the marketshare for the U.S. is not worth their time and money. Honda is the clear beneficiary of Yamaha staying out of the U. S. market.


----------



## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> . A new twist is Honda's anti-climb feature which has half the auger going in an opposite direction. Not available in the U.S. (yet).


hmmm..IMO, like the Cub Cadet "3-stage", this looks like a solution without a problem..my 1971 Ariens has no "climbing" problem..and this Honda design must require some complex engineering to get the two sides to spin in opposite directions, which just means more things to maintain, and more to potentially break down, for no meaningful gain, IMO.

I don't understand why the snowblower manufacturers insist lately on re-designing things that have been perfected and functioning great for half a century. (the classic, traditional, 2-stage auger and impeller combo).. the only logical reason I can think of is market differentiation. ("look at us, we are different, that must mean we are better")..but often different is not better, it can often be worse..the Cub Cadet reports from this winter are showing that.

I trust Honda a lot more to do a good job of engineering, and it will probably be perfectly fine..but still, I dont get the need for it.

Scot


----------



## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

well with the price of a Honda snowblower just imaging the price of that twin screw job, I don't think many would be willing to pay the price for it and others would buy it because it is the latest


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

sscotsman said:


> Kiss4aFrog said:
> 
> 
> > . A new twist is Honda's anti-climb feature which has half the auger going in an opposite direction. Not available in the U.S. (yet).
> ...


Great point and I totally agree. Remember the late 80s when Honda introduced four wheel steering in the flagship coupe, the Honda Prelude. First, I was like how cool is that technology. I totally appreciate pushing the envelope and I feel this is what drives creativity and forward thinking BUT in the end it failed, miserably, because ultimately there was no need for it and didn't solve any problems. Those owners just had another mechanical thing to go wrong over the years and not to mention the excessive wear on the drivetrain. 

I'd pay the extra dollars on things that matter to me. Dependability and cost of ownership. Unfortunately we overlook those things sometimes because it's what we expect and putting a price tag on it is difficult. Saying a Honda is dependable is redundant so Honda is forced to push other vantage points. Just my two cents.


----------



## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> My thought exactly but isn't that tough to accomplish? Even the newer AX series engines (which are probably some of the higher end engines) are made in China. I'm sure it is assembled in the USA but I wonder if materials and such even differ from brand to brand.



the chinese engines dont bother me in fact i love them. its the cheap, flimsy frames that mtd and other low end manufacturers offer that bother me.


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> Great point and I totally agree. Remember the late 80s when Honda introduced four wheel steering in the flagship coupe, the Honda Prelude. First, I was like how cool is that technology. I totally appreciate pushing the envelope and I feel this is what drives creativity and forward thinking BUT in the end it failed, miserably, because ultimately there was no need for it and didn't solve any problems. Those owners just had another mechanical thing to go wrong over the years and not to mention the excessive wear on the drivetrain.


Funny  That's the car I was referring to in my post about the Cub Cadet 3-stage system and whether it's a gimmick. I believe that was the gen 3 Prelude. Other post is here: 
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/929345-post27.html

This Honda setup is interesting, but it would still make me nervous. As was said, the gearbox must be more complex. And if you caught a chunk of ice between the counter-rotating tips of the adjacent augers, it would put quite a bit of stress of the gearbox. 

If you wanted a quick-and-dirty approach to reduce ride-up, you could perhaps reverse the rotation of the augers. Now their leading edges would be rotating up, not down. You'd probably have to re-shape the bucket, to keep the snow feeding "properly". And it might risk flinging bits of snow/ice up into the air, vs down at the ground, which could be a safety concern. 

For the moment, I have an Ariens weight-kit plate bolted to my bucket, and I'm in the process of adding another 5 lbs. That seems to be helping keep the nose down, it's simple, and it's cheap.


----------



## 94EG8 (Feb 13, 2014)

RedOctobyr said:


> I don't get the impression that current offerings from good brands are disposable. But I admit that electric controls for chutes, for instance, really make me nervous from a longevity perspective. These machines live in fairly harsh environments, getting wet, then freezing, repeatedly, then sitting idle for months. Small items that can corrode and seize up seem like they will be a challenge in 10 years or so.


Honda has had the electric chute control over here in Canada for over 20 years already here in Canada, they seem to be holding up fine. I might be worried these types of features on a lower end brand though. 



sscotsman said:


> hmmm..IMO, like the Cub Cadet "3-stage", this looks like a solution without a problem..my 1971 Ariens has no "climbing" problem..and this Honda design must require some complex engineering to get the two sides to spin in opposite directions, which just means more things to maintain, and more to potentially break down, for no meaningful gain, IMO.


I've had lots of machines climb, and that includes some pretty heavy older large frame MTD stuff from the late '80s. It's a real issue and it's nice to see it finally getting addressed. Although oddly the only machines I haven't had climbing issues with have all been tracked Hondas.



Vincent_Diesel said:


> Great point and I totally agree. Remember the late 80s when Honda introduced four wheel steering in the flagship coupe, the Honda Prelude. First, I was like how cool is that technology. I totally appreciate pushing the envelope and I feel this is what drives creativity and forward thinking BUT in the end it failed, miserably, because ultimately there was no need for it and didn't solve any problems. Those owners just had another mechanical thing to go wrong over the years and not to mention the excessive wear on the drivetrain.


The biggest issue with the 4ws on those Preludes was that everyone was scared something would happen to them and it would be expensive. There were never really any issues with them though and there are still a fair number of them on the road.


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> My thought exactly but isn't that tough to accomplish? Even the newer AX series engines (which are probably some of the higher end engines) are made in China. I'm sure it is assembled in the USA but I wonder if materials and such even differ from brand to brand.


Many folks out there have the mentality that anything and everything built in China has to be of poor quality. That simply is not true. Companies like Ariens have strict Quality Control/Compliance requirements for the parts that are made for them. 

Let's remember that the biggest reason many companies have outsourced to other countries is because of cost. 

Paying $40,000 - $70,000 a year per employee, plus medical/dental/insurance/whatever else they have to pay to be competitive with other businesses.. OR... You move production to another country where there is an abundance of people needing jobs and are qualified to do the same work that we do here, yet for much much less $$$ and benefits. This in turn helps the bottom line and makes the CEOs, board of directors, and shareholders much happier and make the company look better because it is showing a better profit. So we decide to hate the companies and CEOs because they made a wise business decision and did what was expected of them? Support America? I'm all for it. But how realistic is it? We want more money, we want to work less time, and we want more benefits. We want more more more, where as those in other countries just want a job and are willing to work hard at the jobs offered to them. Heck many factories overseas even have living arrangements on the factory property. 6 and 7 day workweeks is not uncommon because they can get more done for less. But this is turning into a political or some other stupid debate so let me just conclude by saying- Just because it has "Made in China" or "Made in Korea" or "Made in Japan" or "Made in Mexico" or "Made in Canada" or "Made in India" on it doesn't automatically make it a bad product. Let's remember that American manufacturing in many ways had to learn from the Asians in order to improve the quality of the product. I cite the automotive industry as one area. Asians hands down built better cars in the 1980s 1990s, and well into this century before American and European auto manufacturers realized they were in trouble and needed to improve. That's why Honda and Toyota were so popular and so well loved and respected and earned the loyalty from customers. Companies like Ariens and Honda have done the same. Quality and Reliability sells.


----------



## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> I'm not sure "we" agree on what's the best snow blower any more than we agree on what's the best oil or brand of spark plug :facepalm_zpsdj194qh
> 
> Nothing is future proof but there is only so much you can do to improve the design. A new twist is Honda's anti-climb feature which has half the auger going in an opposite direction. Not available in the U.S. (yet).


 impressive and unnecessary all in one !


----------



## mrsteve7 (Sep 2, 2015)

>>>Asians hands down built better cars in the 1980s 1990s, and well into this century before American and European auto manufacturers realized they were in trouble and needed to improve.

Well, that's quite a generalization. No, not Asians, but specifically the Japanese were "better". Kia and Hyundai were wrought with quality issues and poor design during that period and there were no other noteworthy Asian cars outside of Japan. Not to say that all Chinese products are garbage, however general consensus in my experience has been it's true more often than not.


----------



## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

Having worked on them in a shop for too long I've gone from loving Ariens to really disliking them and their direction as a company.

Quick and dirty run down. 
Ariens in the 1960s and 70s were tanks. No corners were cut an they were expensive machines for their day.

80s and early to mid 90s saw some cost cutting but they were still a good machine. Models like 924050 were solid however switching over to an inferior split aluminum gear case and gear oil meant failure of that component was inevitable. If you buy a replacement for that machine today its been updated back to a one piece cast iron unit which is money well spent. Still used good design features like a lock-out hub, differential, and ball bearings for the axle.

Late 90s into early 2000s saw further cost cutting and drive issues and the elimination of differentials in favor of cheap pinned axles. In addition to the split aluminum gear case cheapness machines generally eat friction discs an the shift fork was a problem area being a loose fit causing the drive to sometimes fall apart.

Around 2008 they changed the drive system again to combine the friction plate and drive pulley into one unit and solve a number of the previous issues but also began to use even more plastic liners as bushings for metal parts. Differentials returned on larger units but cheapened and using a remote trigger system that was finicky. They upgraded but still retained a split aluminum gear case. Engines changed to Briggs and Subaru Robin. Very few issues with said engines so that's a plus.

2011 to present. Drive system further changed and the beginning of automatic differentials. Adoption of cast iron gear cases for most of the model line during each progressive model year which is one of the few changes for the better. My issues with these machines are many

Nylon liners are everywhere for cheapness as opposed to bronze bushings, even on the axles and auger shafts on everything except the Professional series. The compact axles simply contact steel on cast. The externally mounted ball bearings for the hex shaft of the friction disc quickly weld themselves in place making replacement of the friction disc a much bigger pain that it should be. The impeller shaft bearings are garbage (effects almost all models and years since the adoption of cheap Chinese bearings). Ariens cant seem to figure out that they don't need a super tight clearance for things like the impeller against the gear box shaft and wheel hubs against the axles. Grease the wheel axles frequently or be prepared for a fight. I've had to sawzall more than one axle in half to properly repair machines in recent years. Before they switched to the 3 belt system the larger machines would also devour auger belts and they even had a problem for a couple model years with the auger belt prematurely rotting within 12 months of purchase. The quick stick chute control remains an idiotic and troublesome design even to this day. I've yet to meet a plow guy or commercial property owner who likes it and even a fair number of consumers who have encountered issues. If Ariens made a downgrade kit to a hand crank they'd sell quite a few im sure.

All Ariens are very obviously built around that target $1000 price point anymore and its made very obvious when you see a machine 10 years old or a unit used commercially for a few years with practically the whole machine in tatters. This simply never happened to a 60s, 70s, and 80s and even some of the early 90s units. Even the Professional series is a joke with how little the quality steps up comparative to a Deluxe for half the price. This is why the best Commercial warranty they offer is 1 year for the Pro and only 90 days on everything else. Look at a no corners cut brand like Honda and its 3 years regardless of how its used.

They've also made moves I don't like such as eliminating the 20" models and now 22" and even a true 24" compact. What they call a 24" compact now is practically the same size as a Deluxe.

Now the engines. Tecumseh, Briggs, and Subaru had very few out of the box quality issues. Almost no comebacks. There is an addendum for Briggs though because what happened is they stopped manufacturing snow engines in the US in the last 4 years or so because they want domestic production to be for products made in the millions. Engine demand simply wasn't there so production was contracted out to China which is why new Briggs look like a custom dressed Chinese Honda clone- because they are.

LCT on the other hand have issues. Not only is the engine covered in pot metal but there are a lot of little problems and pattern failures I've seen first hand.

These include
-Prematurely rotting rubber, particularly the primer hose and shielding around the ignition coil wire.
-Gas cap ring and threads quickly corroding
-Inside of fuel tanks rusting unless constantly kept topped off
-For years foreign debris making its way from the fuel tank to the carb because the fuel tanks are insufficiently cleaned after manufacturing. Looks like a black metallic powder and causes surge/idle issues. I think they finally got a handle on it this year. I've lost track of how many I've warrantied, still no TSB.
-Key switches faulty from the factory (jiggle key and the machine will shut off/keep running depending on position of switch)
-Recoils snapping their rewind springs after just a dozen pulls.
-Electric Starts shorted out of the box.
-Fuel shut-off falling apart. Its a piece of pot metal with the valve held in place with 2 tiny rivets. They will all eventually stop sealing as well. I honestly recommend you try to never touch it and just use stabil or you risk having a sizeable leak one day.
-General stupid design format of the engine with pot metal shrouds and cheese grade threads covering everything. One model in particular requires removal of the muffler to access the Carb. Why?! Terminals are also all a locking style which is just a pain.
-Glitter in oil for the first couple oil changes because the blocks are washed poorly after machining.
-Carbs using coated steel for things like fuel inlets where brass is much better suited.

About covers it. Ironically a number of these issues can be solved by switching to plastic components which is what Briggs and Tecumseh did, oh, 30+ years ago? Honda still managed to use a lot of metal because they don't skimp on quality but its also reflected in the price. 

If you want a high quality no frills unit you buy a Honda. Toro is also a decent brand. My only real complaint with Toro is they've cheapened the frames comparative to units of the 90s but way fewer niggling issues compared to Ariens and lower repair bills for customers over the life of the unit simply because the layout/engineering of the machines are better quality and easier to service.

Are new Ariens as good as they get? In my experience the opposite is true. Each generation seems to get worse in some way. As a privately owned company I don't totally get it but in the end they're chasing the almighty dollar at the expense of quality. I'd love to see them come out with a new machine in the 2-3 grand price point, a statement product if you will, developed from the ground up to be as stout as the old tanks but sadly I don't think they care and are perfectly happy riding their brand recognition to profits. The issue is simple. In 1970 a Ariens was thousands of dollars if adjusted for inflation. Over all those decades Ariens has made it a point to target and maintain the $800-$1200 price point as a goal which has taken a toll because you simply cannot manufacture the same thing for the same price over such a long period of time. When you maintain a price point for as long as they have something has to be sacrificed and unfortunately they chose to axe quality over price increases. Its become official policy that the machines should be disposable after roughly 10 years but that's not unique to them. A bummer but that's the world in a nutshell for you.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

Excellent write up SnoThro. I am enlightened by your post and feel you have some valuable hands-on experience to share. On the other hand I am little bummed as I read through it's entirety 

The Ariens Deluxe is my first snowblower that I bought new. I felt it was what I wanted to spend on throwing residential snow. I had been admiring my neighbors deluxe for a while, and bought it from my dealers recommendation (they also sell Honda). I wonder, in this "price bracket", is it the best in class. Sure I'd love to have a Honda someday but right now I just can't justify the cost. I figure, if I do the proper maintenance — which I love to do, I'd be pumped to get 10 years out of this machine. I would be fine with that.

Anyway, thanks for sharing and hope that of all the problems you've encountered are not common to all models but isolated issues.


----------



## BTodd (Feb 9, 2016)

GoBlowSnow said:


> Companies like Ariens have strict Quality Control/Compliance requirements for the parts that are made for them.


Sorry, but when I saw plastic wheels on a '93 Ariens 724, I was totally turned off. It was then that I knew I had to find an older machine if I wanted anything to last more than the standard 10 year life expectancy. So I got a '71.


----------



## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

Vincent_Diesel said:


> Excellent write up SnoThro. I am enlightened by your post and feel you have some valuable hands-on experience to share. On the other hand I am little bummed as I read through it's entirety
> 
> The Ariens Deluxe is my first snowblower that I bought new. I felt it was what I wanted to spend on throwing residential snow. I had been admiring my neighbors deluxe for a while, and bought it from my dealers recommendation (they also sell Honda). I wonder, in this "price bracket", is it the best in class. Sure I'd love to have a Honda someday but right now I just can't justify the cost. I figure, if I do the proper maintenance — which I love to do, I'd be pumped to get 10 years out of this machine. I would be fine with that.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for sharing and hope that of all the problems you've encountered are not common to all models but isolated issues.


Sorry to say but if you have a LCT/Ariens AX engine its a fair bet you'll encounter some of these issues. If you want to make it go longer than 10 years just keep greasing everything yearly and coat the machine in a water dispersant penetrant, particularly anything that rolls or joins parts. I think they make a very decent and feature rich machine for said $1000 range, I just don't like their direction and I definitely don't feel the Pro models are worth the cash when they're priced so close to a Honda. A BIG part of my criticism is im not a disposable society guy and that's a direction where most outdoor power equipment has headed sharply in the last 20 years. Even more so with most everyone choosing budget Chinese engines to power everything.

I also want to state that just because its Chinese doesn't make it bad, its the low price point and greed that make it bad. Briggs, Honda, Subaru etc.. manufacture a number of components, both minor and major, in China and they're by in large of very good quality. Unfortunately I just don't see said quality much in Honda clone MTD, Toro, Ariens powered products. It may also interest you to know that all 3 have their own distinctive companies manufacturing engines. The big players are Zongshen, Loncin, Lifan, and LCT. Toro had some severe fuel contamination teething problems but seem to be largely ironed out, MTD I never saw any specific QC problems but they've also been at it the longest. LCT-verdict is still out.






BTodd said:


> Sorry, but when I saw plastic wheels on a '93 Ariens 724, I was totally turned off. It was then that I knew I had to find an older machine if I wanted anything to last more than the standard 10 year life expectancy. So I got a '71.


Yea that was cheap. There were good machines in the 90s though being the 824s with the angled bucket, 924050 and I think 924082 is another, both machines looked identical. They also marketed them as Classics for a time.


----------



## toroused (Mar 1, 2015)

He brings up a very good point about Ariens: back in the day, they were indeed very expensive units. Around my neighborhood, everyone had just the 6HP units - it's probably the most machine anyone could buy for the price.

My neighbor had me take a look at his 4 year old 6HP Ariens last week (termed 6/24 in the old days). For a small machine it has some real good gonads and packs a lot of punch. Unfortunately, he started "plowing up" snow and he though he had broken a shear pin. Turns out it was this foolish little plastic bushing that they had designed by the belt pulleys. When you squeeze the handle to engage the impeller, there is a compression spring in the belt set-up that subsequently tightens the belt for the impeller. There was a plastic bushing at the very back end of this compression spring set-up that was now cracked, and as such, it was not transmitting the proper tightness to the bet. Thus, the impeller was not going around as fast as it should. So, this plastic bushing costed say 2 cents to manufacture and a normal old type brass/metal bushing would have costed say 15 cents. It just blew my mind. And the belt was worn out prematurely as a result as well.


----------



## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

Thanks SnoThro for taking the time to share your first hand experience and knowledge of Ariens Snowblowers over their various generations and provide us with a very detailed and informative post.

Personally I think maintenance and proper operation of a machine go a long way, that has been my experience. However I'm not discounting a quality product. Even though a high quality product will also fail if not properly maintained or abused. My first machine that I personally owned was a new 1995 MTD E640F that I bought at Costco for about $500-$600. It served me well for almost 20 years and got me through several NY blizzards, the cables always had to be re-tightened and the auger housing corners were folding in, typical of MTD blowers. I ended up selling it a couple of years ago as rust was beginning to take hold, sold it on CL for a good price and moved over to a new Ariens.

My experience with Ariens has not been perfect I began with a Deluxe 28 with a 254cc engine that was downright underpowered (with a 28" bucket) on any significant plow pile., the toughest test of any snowblower. I sold it for a price close to what I paid for it a year later on CL right before a storm was forecasted. My next machine was the Ariens Deluxe 28+ "limited edition" w/414cc engine. I didn't want to run out of power again. This unit had a leaking cast iron gear case after the first use, an issue with the powdercoating on the internal auger housing and had oil leaking from the surface of the engine (superficially as result of box being tilted) and was also poorly assembled by a dealer that was an hour away, fearing I may have bought a lemon I returned it to the dealer. I know many of you will say/think you should have kept that one. I believe all the manufacturers were slapping them together in an effort to keep up with demand as a result of last year's Snowmaggedon. 

I am happy with my new machine at this point it is the right size for my needs, has the features I wanted and has enough power when the big storms hit. The only exception is a terribly designed gas tank cap that requires taking the strainer out of the gas tank to avoid frustration when trying to get it back on the tank.

The reason I have stuck with Ariens in addition to the heavy duty construction, domestically manufactured machine (I know like all commercially available manufacturers including Honda the engine is manufactured in China) and their excellent reputation as a brand relative to most brands out there is their top notch customer service. Every time that I have contacted them I was able to get a knowledgeable representative/technician without a language barrier on the line within about 5- 10 minutes. Additionally they have always offered me a fair resolution to any problem that I can throw at them, whether it be getting my unit to a dealer, getting an actual print catalog (most companies don't like to give these out anymore and will say just go to our website), a part mailed to help resolve a potential issue, a parts manual etc. they have delivered for me. Ariens is still supplying parts for machines that are decades old. As a homeowner with the full gamut of OPE, I have dealt with all the players on this forum with the exception of Yamaha and Ariens customer support has stood out to me. I will take your advice regarding leaving the gas tank full w/Star Tron treated gas and let the carb run dry. This should prevent the gas tank corrosion issue you mentioned.

As far as building a machine to the $1,000.USD price point that does seem to be the sweet spot for most buyers (not necessarily the ones you find actively participating on a snowblower forum, that are willing to pay $3k for a high end machine). This is the price point that will be the bread and butter for most manufacturers, so it will not be ignored anytime soon. As you mentioned they build a pretty good machine for this price point though some cost cutting measures are evident. In terms of visible cost-cutting, less than the other brands at this price point.

At the $3k price point Honda is likely the best choice and as you said their 3 year transferable warranty regardless of residential or commercial use does speak volumes on their confidence in their product and is also factored into the pricing. Ariens gave me a 5 year warranty on my machine and 3 years on the engine. I bought mine during a promotional period and am happy with my warranty. For most of us who do not live in a snowbelt or an area that gets 75+ inches of annual snowfall, it is hard to justify the price of a new Honda 2 stage. The new HSS series machines are feature rich machines w/electric chute controls, some with key start, hour meters and auger protection control systems they are far from simple at this point. 

Buying a snowblower is a subjective purchase similar to buying a car but for most a lower involvement one based on its much lower purchase cost. We all have different needs and budgets for our purchase decisions. We can only hope that if we do our research based on: getting behind any machine you plan on buying, trying to contact their customer service/tech support dept. before buying, reading reviews and being leery of the ones that are the highest or the lowest rating in all criteria, consider the overall history of the brand and whether or not they do the right thing when warranted, when an issue presented itself, did they stall in order to ride out their warranty period or did they step up and admit fault and do the right thing by their customers (issue a TSB/recall to correct it) even at the expense of their profit margins. These are the factors that will help consumers make the right choice and minimize buyer's remorse.

All the best.


----------



## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

SnoThro said:


> Having worked on them in a shop for too long I've gone from loving Ariens to really disliking them and their direction as a company.
> 
> Quick and dirty run down.
> Ariens in the 1960s and 70s were tanks. No corners were cut an they were expensive machines for their day.
> ...


A dealer told me a few years ago that they were putting plastic in the drive line . As a result every one that works there owns a toro but he sells 8 ariens to 1 toro just on name. He also told me that he thinks ariens does make a great blower


----------



## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> I'm not sure "we" agree on what's the best snow blower any more than we agree on what's the best oil or brand of spark plug :facepalm_zpsdj194qh
> 
> Nothing is future proof but there is only so much you can do to improve the design. A new twist is Honda's anti-climb feature which has half the auger going in an opposite direction. Not available in the U.S. (yet).


That idea is great for a rototiller .....mine jumps all over the place. However my snowblower just chugs along without trouble chucking snow the old fashion way. Unless the counter turning augers offer real advantages, I would be troubled with the added complexity which has a risk of adding higher maintenance cost.


----------



## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

Everyone is "cheapening down" the line..not only Ariens.
with the only possible exception being Honda.

All the points made above, about Ariens, can also be directly applied to: Toro, Husquvarna, MTD, Craftsman, Cub Cadet, Troy-Bilt, and virtually every other brand name..(except possibly Honda) We really arent talking about things in this thread that are specific to Ariens only.

In Sno-Thro's long post above, you could replace "Ariens" with "Toro" or any of those other names, and it would still be true, in a general sense. 



SnoThro said:


> I also want to state that just because its Chinese doesn't make it bad, its the low price point and greed that make it bad. Briggs, Honda, Subaru etc.. manufacture a number of components, both minor and major, in China and they're by in large of very good quality.


One word stood out for me there.."greed".
Its a common misconception, and a myth, that "corporate greed" is a reason for much of this "cheapening" of many products, and the reason for moving production of many things from the USA to China, or Mexico, or wherever..the myth goes like this:

"The evil CEO's move production to China because of greed, so they can make MORE money"

Thats simply not true..the real reason is:

Companys move production to China so they can make *the same* amount of money..they do it because they have to, so the company can survive.

The root problem is the American consumer. The average consumer shops only on price..quality often isnt even considered. I bet 80% of people buying their first snowblower do this much research:

"hmm..lots of snow this year, I should get a snowblower. I'll hop over to Walmart and buy one."

thats it..the end. 
So given the choice of a high-quality Ariens, Toro, Simplicity etc. for $1,500, or the $500 piece of junk at Walmart..yep, no contest.
they dont even *know* they are buying a piece of junk!

So manufacturers like Ariens who play in the entire "spectrum", from lower-end to higher-end, they really are forced to lower quality simply to stay in business. You can make the greatest quality snowblower of all time..and have to sell it for $10,000...doesnt do you much good if no one will buy it.

The "high-end" buyers are out there..but they are a minority. there actually isnt a lot of that money to go around..Ariens does compete with Honda on the high-end..but they also choose to compete with MTD on the low end..they have always made the full-range.

So when I see "cheapening of products" I always think: Walmart.
If your companys better-quality widget, made in the USA, sells for $10.
and its on the shelf at Walmart next to the same type of widget made in China for $5..your company has some thinking to do...adapt, or go out business.

yes, some consumers will actually be educated and understand your $10 widget is worth the extra price..and they will buy it because they are informed..they will know the $5 junky version is false economy..but 90% of consumers will only see: "this one is $10 and this one is $5? SOLD to the ignorant consumer for five dollars."

Scot


----------



## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

SnoThro said:


> Having worked on them in a shop for too long I've gone from loving Ariens to really disliking them and their direction as a company.
> 
> Quick and dirty run down.
> Ariens in the 1960s and 70s were tanks. No corners were cut an they were expensive machines for their day.
> ...



HOLY SMOKY and I am getting ready to spend over $3000 for a new Ariens???????????

The above post just added poop to the pie! Now I have to start my search all over again or just continue to baby my 30 year old (with plastic wheel shaft bearings) until it just passes into the neverland. D A M N!!!


----------



## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

foggysail said:


> HOLY SMOKY and I am getting ready to spend over $3000 for a new Ariens???????????
> 
> The above post just added poop to the pie! Now I have to start my search all over again or just continue to baby my 30 year old (with plastic wheel shaft bearings) until it just passes into the neverland. D A M N!!!



But you are missing an important point..SnoThro's long post is about lower-end and mid-range snowblowers..in the $500 to $1,000 range. (He specifically mentioned the $1,000 price point several times)

If you are shopping for a $3,000 snowblower, the machines you are looking at, regardless of manufacturer, are in a completely different league..at that level, you can completely ignore this entire thread, it doesn't apply to you.

This thread is about the Chevy Cavalier, and you are shopping for a Mercedes.

Scot


----------



## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

Those Honda's are looking tinny and cheap also. *and THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING ON THAT 1.:smiley-rpg027:*


----------



## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

sscotsman said:


> Everyone is "cheapening down" the line..not only Ariens.
> with the only possible exception being Honda.
> 
> All the points made above, about Ariens, can also be directly applied to: Toro, Husquvarna, MTD, Craftsman, Cub Cadet, Troy-Bilt, and virtually every other brand name..(except possibly Honda) We really arent talking about things in this thread that are specific to Ariens only.
> ...


Well most of what I mentioned is actually Ariens specific. No other brand had pattern failures with their drive systems anywhere near the severity of those early 2000s Ariens. Likewise with split aluminum gear cases and trying to use gear oil when the seals quickly fail. By in large everyone else used grease in gear cases so even if a seal wasn't perfect the grease didn't "leak" out. The issues with the engines are limited mostly to Ariens as well. They're also a standout with their adoption of those nylon liners which really are a poor replacement for a true bushing.

I am also saying that a ~$2500 Ariens isn't worth the cash. The build quality has been so streamlined around that 1k price point that it effects the higher tier products. Its made the money you'd spend on a Professional unit redundant and a HUGE diminishing return comparative to a Deluxe. If you're shopping with a budget over 2 grand i'd look elsewhere.



> One word stood out for me there.."greed".
> Its a common misconception, and a myth, that "corporate greed" is a reason for much of this "cheapening" of many products, and the reason for moving production of many things from the USA to China, or Mexico, or wherever..the myth goes like this:
> 
> "The evil CEO's move production to China because of greed, so they can make MORE money"
> ...


 Going to go ahead and disagree with you. Sure in some cases things have to be made overseas but very few instances of that is desperation. Offshoring is primarily driven by profits. Because things are so poorly regulated, such as wages, taxes, working conditions, and environmental considerations, they can manufacture things much cheaper. A company is driven by profit, no big surprise. If you can manufacture the same thing for a third of the cost in another country vs upgrading or maintaining domestic infrastructure, well from their perspective there is no difficult choice to be made. Just as an example look at Vise-Grips. Irwin is part of a massive company with loads of cash (Newell-Rubbermaid) and when faced with having to upgrade their 100 year old manufacturing plant in Nebraska they calculated what it would cost to manufacture in China and profit gain per unit, shut that 100 year old plant and laid off all its workers. Desperation that a multi-BILLION dollar company couldn't afford to upgrade one manufacturing facility? I don't think so. Profit driven? Absolutely.


----------



## Hanky (Nov 14, 2014)

I think there are two main groups of people one is shopping by $ and the other a smaller group % wants Quality and is willing to pay for it. I am in the last group and Ariens, Honda and Toro fit my requirements very well and it is about dealers and how close they are to where you live and my dealer here in town has been great. We all have to remember if man can make it, it will break down at some time and will need maintance at some time.


----------



## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

SnoThro said:


> Going to go ahead and disagree with you. Sure in some cases things have to be made overseas but very few instances of that is desperation. Offshoring is primarily driven by profits. Because things are so poorly regulated, such as wages, taxes, working conditions, and environmental considerations, they can manufacture things much cheaper. A company is driven by profit, no big surprise. If you can manufacture the same thing for a third of the cost in another country vs upgrading or maintaining domestic infrastructure, well from their perspective there is no difficult choice to be made. Just as an example look at Vise-Grips. Irwin is part of a massive company with loads of cash (Newell-Rubbermaid) and when faced with having to upgrade their 100 year old manufacturing plant in Nebraska they calculated what it would cost to manufacture in China and profit gain per unit, shut that 100 year old plant and laid off all its workers. Desperation that a multi-BILLION dollar company couldn't afford to upgrade one manufacturing facility? I don't think so. Profit driven? Absolutely.


Going to go ahead and disagree with you.  The thing is, we are probably both right, and both wrong, at the same time..we are both *partially* right, depending on the specific company and situation..

Im sure there have been cases where companys moved production to china *just* to make more money, and they perhaps didnt have to shut down the US plant..

but there are likely way MORE cases where they really did need to shut down the US plant and move production to China, just for the survival of the business..In which case they arent tyrying to make *more* profit, they need to cut costs just to survive..

Rubbermaid is a text-book example..
There was a documentary a few years back..it was a 20/20 or 60-minutes type story..(I dont remember exactly who..I tried googling for it but didnt find it.)

Rubbermaid made high-quality products..made in the USA.
Walmart was their single largest customer..a majority of Rubbermaids profits came from Walmart. Walmart is SO powerful that it decides the prices that products will sell for, not the manufacturer of the product..
it basically came down to this: (im paraphrasing)

Walmart: Dear Rubbermaid, we will be happy to continue to sell your products in our stores, but starting now we will only buy them from you at "X" price, because we need to keep prices low. (we also sell much cheaper clones of your products, made in China.)

Rubbermaid: Dear Walmart, we cant manufacture our products, as we do currently in the USA, at a low enough cost to sell them to you at the new lower price you demand, and also make a profit for ourselves to keep our company in business.

Walmart: Sorry to hear that..goodbye then.

Walmart didnt need Rubbermaid..Walmart had China to make cheap "rubbermaid-like" products for them already..but Rubbermaid needed Walmart.

Without Walmart, Rubbermaid probably couldnt survive..they basically *had* to move production to China to survive..because they had to manufacture things more cheaply..yes, they had to lay-off US workers to do it, but that's our new global Walmart economy at work..

So, its not always *only* greed for more profits at work..its often mere survival at work.. Ariens, Toro, MTD, and all the rest *had* to go with Chinese engines! they had no choice..their only possible US engine manufacturer, Briggs & Stratton, also moved all their own production to China! There are no US-made engines to choose from, they dont exist..

and why cant there be US-made engines anymore? by US workers? because people want cheap..and they cant be made cheap enough in the US, by American workers, so that people will buy them..not when the cheaper Chinese alternative exists..

Scot


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

EXACTLY, Scott.


----------



## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

sscotsman said:


> So, its not always *only* greed for more profits at work..its often mere survival at work.. Ariens, Toro, MTD, and all the rest *had* to go with Chinese engines! they had no choice..their only possible US engine manufacturer, Briggs & Stratton, also moved all their own production to China! There are no US-made engines to choose from, they dont exist..
> 
> and why cant there be US-made engines anymore? by US workers? because people want cheap..and they cant be made cheap enough in the US, by American workers, so that people will buy them..not when the cheaper Chinese alternative exists..
> 
> Scot


Except this isn't true. Again its about sustainable volume. Briggs was perfectly happy making snow engines in the US and Japan but what happened was nobody wanted to commit to a large volume production contract and instead went to China because they could buy engines for dirt cheap. For example Ariens literally went to Briggs back in 2011 or so in the middle of winter and said "give us more engines". Well Briggs didn't have them and wasn't about to re-tool production to make ten thousand units so Ariens went to china and once they established they could get a cheaper product on demand they blew Briggs off the following year thus beginning the LCT era.

In addition to the high end commercial stuff many of the *cheapest* Briggs engines are largely made in the US because the volume sales are there to sustain the production which flies in the face of what you're saying.

The Walmart Rubbermaid analogy really doesn't apply since that was merely a situation of a major reseller throwing its weight around. Rubbermaid products were still selling just fine, some Exec just wanted to throw a tantrum. What that is, is a good example of corporate greed not necessity.


----------



## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

Zerks on no zerks time for me to reconsider Honda : -(


----------



## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

SnoThro said:


> Except this isn't true.


yes it is..



> Again its about sustainable volume.


No it isnt..



> Briggs was perfectly happy making snow engines in the US and Japan but what happened was nobody wanted to commit to a large volume production contract and instead went to China because they could buy engines for dirt cheap.


Which was exactly my point..its all about cost. and Briggs was only "perfectly happy" to make engines in the USA if people would buy them..no one would, because of cost, because the cheaper Chinese engines existed as competition..and the competition was winning, because people want things cheap.. even Briggs themselves had to move much of their own production to China, long before the Tecumseh era ended.



> For example Ariens literally went to Briggs back in 2011 or so in the middle of winter and said "give us more engines". Well Briggs didn't have them and wasn't about to re-tool production to make ten thousand units


Doesn't relate directly to the bigger picture, because it was a one-time, short-term, two month long anomaly in the middle of this 20 year process.. because Ariens needed engines THEN, in the middle of winter..no one could provide them immediately...and it was in the transition phase from US Tecumseh/Briggs engines to China..the flows werent completely worked out yet..If the Ariens chinese engine flow had been in place, as it is now, they would have never even asked Briggs in the first place. but they did ask, and Briggs couldnt do it, because they themselves had already spent a decade gradually moving production of this type of engine over to China.



> so Ariens went to china and once they established they could get a cheaper product on demand they blew Briggs off the following year thus beginning the LCT era.


They were already going to China anyway..so was Briggs. Briggs started making engines in China in 2000. Ariens didnt go to China *because* Briggs couldnt supply the engines in 2011..Ariens was already going to China, because no one, even Briggs, could offer them made in the USA..because of cost.



> In addition to the high end commercial stuff many of the *cheapest* Briggs engines are largely made in the US because the volume sales are there to sustain the production which flies in the face of what you're saying.


No it doesn't, because no one is talking about small lawnmower engines. 



> The Walmart Rubbermaid analogy really doesn't apply


yes it does.



> since that was merely a situation of a major reseller throwing its weight around.


No it wasnt..it relates to all of this..it relates to the larger topic of "need to make many things in China, because its cheaper"..and Walmart is a huuuuuuge player in this whole process..they were the major factor getting it started in the 80's and 90's, and they are still a major factor today..Walmart is much bigger in this process than many people realize..(I also blame the American consumer, equally, hand in hand with Walmart..We are responsible for sending our own jobs to China..because we have to have it cheap..)


> Rubbermaid products were still selling just fine,


yes they were..but Walmart still said "we need it cheaper" anyway..because their customers needed it cheaper..it was an ongoing gradual process..Rubbermaid couldnt go on forever making all their products in the USA, at higher cost, because the cheap Chinese alternatives were already here..and as I have already said, given the choice of $10 quality or $5 cheap chinese junk, 90% of consumers will pick the cheap chinese junk..



> some Exec just wanted to throw a tantrum. What that is, is a good example of corporate greed not necessity.


wrong..again, its not corporate greed, its corporate necessity.
(well ok..there are elements of both in that example)
but I still say its more necessity than greed..because it simply has to be cheap to sell..thats a fact of the market..you can make things cheaper, (by going to China) or ignore that fact and go out of business..

not every product goes to china, many things are still made in the USA..but it applies to snowblowers and snowblower engines.

Chinese cars, sold in the USA, are next..
They are coming..
And Americans will buy them..because they will be cheap.

Scot


----------



## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

_Chinese cars, sold in the USA, are next..
They are coming..
And Americans will buy them..because they will be cheap.

_Not until theybuild a proven reliable product. Low cost wasn't enough to make Japan or Hyundai get penetration into the US market, until they were finally "blessed" as being a reliable product by Consumer Reports.


----------



## vmaxed (Feb 23, 2014)

RIT333 said:


> _Chinese cars, sold in the USA, are next..
> They are coming..
> And Americans will buy them..because they will be cheap.
> 
> _Not until theybuild a proven reliable product. Low cost wasn't enough to make Japan or Hyundai get penetration into the US market, until they were finally "blessed" as being a reliable product by Consumer Reports.


The Made-in-China Buick Envision is Officially On its Way to America :facepalm_zpsdj194qh


----------



## ih8thepackers (Jan 4, 2014)

so what did we learn here? if your ariens was built in the last 20 yrs.its junk? well if that's the case I like my"junk''just the way they are!!


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

foggysail said:


> Zerks on no zerks time for me to reconsider Honda : -(


I've seen plenty of Honda machines that are 5-10 years old and are rotting away. Mainly the bucket. 

My '05 1332 Pro has well over 1000 hours of commercial use on it and still performs flawlessly. Maybe because I do all the proper maintenance or maybe because Ariens makes a qaulity product. Probably both. That's why I had no problem buying a '15 Pro 32 for my personal residential needs. 

If you go with the Ariens, 20 years from now you"ll still be happy.


----------



## toroused (Mar 1, 2015)

I have to back up and disagree with Scot's post awhile back regarding selling in Walmart. If you are in Walmart selling a U.S. made product for $10 and a competitor has a comparative quality Chinese-made product selling there for $5, then you are in the wrong distribution channel (product, price, place & promotion). You need to either get out of that distribution channel or make adjustments to sell online, direct, or some other modern vehicle. 

6-8 years ago, before Briggs bought out Snapper, Walmart was very aggressive in attempting to persuade Snapper to sell Snapper lawnmowers in into Walmart. Snapper turned them down (there are articles online on this). 

Last spring, Home Depot made a major effort to promote the fact that it was selling an U.S. made Briggs lawnmower engine in one of its lesser brand models (MTD?). Why?

Similarly, DeWalt (Black & Decker) ran a similar energized promotion last spring to highlight the fact that one of its cordless drills was now being made in the U.S.. This despite the fact that it was being sold in a big box store (Home Depot?). 

My opinion was that these two events by two separate brands last spring was backlash against Chinese made products and that each company was just trying to throw a few bones out there to stem the public relations tide. Less anyone forgets, one out of four New Balance Athletic shoes are made in the U.S., this from eight (?) different manufacturing plants in the U.S. (2 in Massachusetts, 5 in Maine & one in California). Manufacturing in the U.S. can be done.


----------



## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

JJG723 said:


> I've seen plenty of Honda machines that are 5-10 years old and are rotting away. Mainly the bucket.
> 
> My '05 1332 Pro has well over 1000 hours of commercial use on it and still performs flawlessly. Maybe because I do all the proper maintenance or maybe because Ariens makes a qaulity product. Probably both. That's why I had no problem buying a '15 Pro 32 for my personal residential needs.
> 
> If you go with the Ariens, 20 years from now you"ll still be happy.




I was hoping so before I read Snothro's earlier long post. I don't mind spending for quality but it has to be quality not nice new paint. I am disturbed (who cares?) that all the machines have drawbacks. Geez, I thought buying a snowblower would be a snap.


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

sscotsman said:


> SnoThro said:
> 
> 
> > Going to go ahead and disagree with you. Sure in some cases things have to be made overseas but very few instances of that is desperation. Offshoring is primarily driven by profits. Because things are so poorly regulated, such as wages, taxes, working conditions, and environmental considerations, they can manufacture things much cheaper. A company is driven by profit, no big surprise. If you can manufacture the same thing for a third of the cost in another country vs upgrading or maintaining domestic infrastructure, well from their perspective there is no difficult choice to be made. Just as an example look at Vise-Grips. Irwin is part of a massive company with loads of cash (Newell-Rubbermaid) and when faced with having to upgrade their 100 year old manufacturing plant in Nebraska they calculated what it would cost to manufacture in China and profit gain per unit, shut that 100 year old plant and laid off all its workers. Desperation that a multi-BILLION dollar company couldn't afford to upgrade one manufacturing facility? I don't think so. Profit driven? Absolutely.
> ...


Anyone on these boards who lives on the north shore of Boston knows Meastranzi Bros. They are the single largest outdoor power equipment dealer in the region selling literally thousands of snowblowers each season. For decades they sold Ariens and Toro snowblowers. 

About 2008 they went to Ariens and said they wanted their cost to purchase the machines to be cheaper so they could make a larger profit off each unit sold to a customer. Ariens said they couldn't sell them the equipment and cheaper and that they were already getting the best rate in the country. 

Around that same time another smaller dealer who sold Simplicity machines closed up shop so Meastranzi Bros took over their licence to sell Simplicity. Around here Simplicity wasn't a well known brand so Meastranzi got "their" price. 

Walking into the M.B. showroom, the new Simplicity machines where now front and center while the Ariens and Toro where off to the side. Customers where pushed towards Simplicity due to the higher profit margin. Ariens caught wind of what was going on and after a discussion decided to pull the dealer licence from MB to sell new equipment. (They still sell Ariens parts and service.)

To make up for the loss of Ariens, Meastranzi picked up Honda but from what I understand they don't sell many units.

Also their has been several issues with the Simplicity machines that Meastranzi has addressed with the manufacturer. None gave been corrected. The shop mechanics have enjoyed the job security.


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

foggysail said:


> JJG723 said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen plenty of Honda machines that are 5-10 years old and are rotting away. Mainly the bucket.
> ...


It doesn't take much looking around these boards to see most people are more than happy with their Ariens purchase.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

SnoThro said:


> Sorry to say but if you have a LCT/Ariens AX engine its a fair bet you'll encounter some of these issues. If you want to make it go longer than 10 years just keep greasing everything yearly and coat the machine in a water dispersant penetrant, particularly anything that rolls or joins parts. I think they make a very decent and feature rich machine for said $1000 range, I just don't like their direction and I definitely don't feel the Pro models are worth the cash when they're priced so close to a Honda. A BIG part of my criticism is im not a disposable society guy and that's a direction where most outdoor power equipment has headed sharply in the last 20 years. Even more so with most everyone choosing budget Chinese engines to power everything.


Just curious SnoThro. I noticed you are in the Boston area, I am in the North Shore. How do you know so much?


----------



## SnoThro (Feb 20, 2016)

JJG723 said:


> I've seen plenty of Honda machines that are 5-10 years old and are rotting away. Mainly the bucket.


I've seen the same thing with Ariens that I can punch holes through with a screwdriver. Leaving a machine outdoors completely exposed will kill any brand. The Honda difference is in the high quality bearings, bushings, and belts as well as the far superior build quality of the engines. I implore anyone looking to spend 2-3 grand to not take my word for it but go look at the machines side by side, remove the belt covers, tip the machines up and examine the drives. Also look at cut-aways of the gear boxes. Ariens uses basic bronze bushings, Honda installs premium ball bearings. Its blatantly obvious which is built to last longer. I do concede that frame metal quality is roughly a wash between the two but that's it.

And im far from saying Ariens is junk. I've said two things, the first is that they've made some really questionable design choices in the name of maintaining a price point, the second is that its not worth it to buy a multi-thousand dollar Ariens. You can sure do a lot worse and go buy an MTD product :icon_smile_big:. What sucks is seeing them fall from grace by sacrificing quality. 




Vincent_Diesel said:


> Just curious SnoThro. I noticed you are in the Boston area, I am in the North Shore. How do you know so much?


I've fixed them all for too long. No bias here either as we primarily move Toro and Ariens, no Honda since so few people want to spend the cash but I do service them. By the way Maestranzi lost their license because they were buying less and less and bad mouthing Ariens and literally using on-floor comparisons to showcase Simplicity's superior build quality I many of the areas I've already highlighted, not because they weren't selling enough. The minimum purchase quantity per year to maintain dealership status is a drop in the bucket for them.


----------



## GoBlowSnow (Sep 4, 2015)

Alright folks. Regardless of one person's opinion, The fact remains that we see many satisfied owners of Ariens, Toro, & Honda machines. I don't think you can go wrong purchasing any one of those. We have tons of users on here with all makes and models. No need to go into a panic if you were considering one machine but now based upon 1 person's opinion it is making you have second thoughts. Has anyone complained about any of the issues that person mentioned about Ariens? not that I have seen thus far on here. We have people who frequent this forum who use them for their homes, and who use them in commercial service. Same goes for Toro and Honda. 

They are great products, they work well, the manufacturers stand behind them. Go get what you want, and stop worrying.


----------



## JJG723 (Mar 7, 2015)

SnoThro said:


> JJG723 said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen plenty of Honda machines that are 5-10 years old and are rotting away. Mainly the bucket.
> ...


Sno, your comments on Meastranzi are basically what I said. I never said they weren't selling enough units. People were still going towards Ariens because they didn't trust the unknown Simplicity name.

Just 2 weeks ago a co-worker returned his Simplicity to Meastranzi for a full refund. The machine was purchased mid-season last winter and broke down every storm. Mainly tranny and belt issues. When unloading it of his truck, the mechanic who was helping him said, "I can't believe we sell this junk." Then inside as the cashier cut him a check was told, "You're not the 1st person we've had to refund their money on these machines." For those who are wondering, Meastranzi only sells the Signature Pro line... Kind of echos why the Simplicity boards are very quiet compared to Ariens, Toro, Honda...


----------



## Ariens Company (Nov 1, 2013)

We are following this thread and appreciate your feedback and comments.

To clarify the engine situation, with the closure of Tecumseh several years ago and the movement of all Briggs and Stratton snow engines to China, all available snow engines for the entire market now come from Southeast Asia. All of our products are assembled in the US, and we continue to be proud of that fact.

Our Path Pro model has more plastic components due to contractors needing a machine they can load and unload easily. Our other four series all are mostly steel-construction with very few plastic parts.

Ariens provides all types of snow blowers from the Path Pro to the Professional models in order to meet the needs and budgets of the end-users. All of our units are tested to make sure they perform to Ariens’ quality standards. Ariens will be there for you as we also take pride in offering the best customer service as we know that is important to you.

If you have questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us directly so we can answer your questions.

Thanks.

Mary Lyn
[email protected]


----------



## lillbear (Jan 5, 2016)

I get a good chuckle when someone compares a 1000$ Ariens deluxe to a 3000$ Honda. It happens sometimes that you'll get what you pay for. A better comparison is when my neighbour and I switch snowblower. He has a Honda 1332 and I have a Hydro pro track 28 both new from this winter. There's a more equal and fair comparison. There's a reason why my machine is probably 100+ more then the deluxe. One wouldn't compare a Honda civic with a Mercedes AMG. Just saying.


----------



## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

lillbear said:


> I get a good chuckle when someone compares a 1000$ Ariens deluxe to a 3000$ Honda. It happens sometimes that you'll get what you pay for. A better comparison is when my neighbour and I switch snowblower. He has a Honda 1332 and I have a Hydro pro track 28 both new from this winter. There's a more equal and fair comparison. There's a reason why my machine is probably 100+ more then the deluxe. One wouldn't compare a Honda civic with a Mercedes AMG. Just saying.


do tell, how did the honda compare to your Ariens


----------



## Cardo111 (Feb 16, 2015)

The Ariens company participating on this forum is a strong testament to their dedication to their customers. Out of all the manufacturers out there only 2 companies dedicate the resources to participate on this forum to address our questions/concerns first hand.


----------



## lillbear (Jan 5, 2016)

detdrbuzzard said:


> do tell, how did the honda compare to your Ariens


Well wouldn't change my Ariens for the Honda. Don't get me wrong it's a nice machine but in 24" of snow mine faster and throws more snow even with a bucket 4 inch smaller in deep snow I have more grunt with the 15HP so travel speed is faster. Honda has more gadget like electric chute, auger protection and I'm probably missing a few. Not sure I would like all the electronics. Probably because I like things simple. The more gadget the more that can potentially go wrong. In my line of work I seen electronic stuff go bad to often so I try to stay away from it. When I got my Ariens I also looked at the Honda and had they made a 1328 it would have made my choice harder. All around I like mine better then the Honda and it did make my neighbour scratch his head as he wasn't expecting that performance out of an Ariens


----------



## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

lillbear said:


> I get a good chuckle when someone compares a 1000$ Ariens deluxe to a 3000$ Honda. It happens sometimes that you'll get what you pay for. A better comparison is when my neighbour and I switch snowblower. He has a Honda 1332 and I have a Hydro pro track 28 both new from this winter. There's a more equal and fair comparison. There's a reason why my machine is probably 100+ more then the deluxe. One wouldn't compare a Honda civic with a Mercedes AMG. Just saying.




My interest was related to comparing a $3000+ Ariens HydroPro 32" to a $3000+ Honda track, NOT a Honda to a $1000 Ariens. I thought that was clear in the discussions. When in this price range, +/- $100 is trivial.


----------



## RedOctobyr (Mar 2, 2014)

lillbear said:


> I get a good chuckle when someone compares a 1000$ Ariens deluxe to a 3000$ Honda. It happens sometimes that you'll get what you pay for. *A better comparison is when my neighbour and I switch snowblower*. He has a Honda 1332 and *I have a Hydro pro track 28 *both new from this winter. There's a more equal and fair comparison. *There's a reason why my machine is probably 100+ more then the deluxe. *One wouldn't compare a Honda civic with a Mercedes AMG. Just saying.





foggysail said:


> My interest was related to comparing a $3000+ Ariens HydroPro 32" to a $3000+ Honda track, NOT a Honda to a $1000 Ariens. I thought that was clear in the discussions. *When in this price range, +/- $100 is trivial.*


I was a little confused at first too. I don't mean to speak for lilbear, but I'm speculating that there was a typo in his post, when he said his machine is "probably 100+ more than the deluxe". 

I think he meant that his machine is "probably 1,000+ more than the deluxe". 

He has a hydrostatic-transmission Professional 28" with tracks. The Deluxe line seems to top out around $1,400 for a 30" on snowblowersdirect.com. There is no way that a hydro, tracked Pro is $1,500 or so  If it was, we'd be fools for buying a Deluxe for $1,400. But I'd certainly believe $2,500 for the Pro. 

So I think the actual-use comparison he gave was on much more evenly-matched (and closer-in-price) machines, for the two brands. The more-like-$2,500 Hydro Pro 28 compared with Honda 1332. Not a Deluxe vs 1332. 

lilbear, please correct me if I misunderstood your post.


----------



## Vincent_Diesel (Feb 15, 2016)

Cardo111 said:


> The Ariens company participating on this forum is a strong testament to their dedication to their customers. Out of all the manufacturers out there only 2 companies dedicate the resources to participate on this forum to address our questions/concerns first hand.


Yeah. I was surprised to see them chime in like that. Nice to know they are paying attention.


----------



## lillbear (Jan 5, 2016)

RedOctobyr said:


> I was a little confused at first too. I don't mean to speak for lilbear, but I'm speculating that there was a typo in his post, when he said his machine is "probably 100+ more than the deluxe".
> 
> I think he meant that his machine is "probably 1,000+ more than the deluxe".
> 
> ...


Your right Foggy my bad lo...l apologies for the typo.


----------



## foggysail (Feb 21, 2015)

: -)


----------

