# New guy, checking in, with an interesting project.



## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

New guy, from Utah, checking in. So called Greatest Snow on Earth, but its been a little lacking the last couple years. I have used my Yard Machines 21" 3.5HP Single Stage just a couple times and none yet this year. I've been admiring some of the projects and restos here. I've started a little project that I'm not in a rush to get done. Thought I'd share...

A couple years ago, I was given an older Yard Man single stage. I let it sit and almost forgot about it till I was given a Chinese made dirt bike for free. Stipulation on the bike, can't be used as a motorcycle ever again, original owner won't give up the title and swears its cursed...

So, I thought that putting the Chinese Honda clone 150cc engine and 5 speed transmission on the snowthrower might be, er, um, fun... 5 speeds of throwing power to throw snow, slush, newspaper, neighbor's cat...









Starting with this and it was already missing pieces. Positives, the auger/paddles aren't just rubber like my Yard Machines, so I hope they will handle the extra power/speed. Also, the adjustable chute. And of course, free is always good.









Bike was missing parts but the important stuff is all there. Planning to whittle the wiring harness from the bike to just essentials to run the engine and provide lights. Yeah, I know, lights on a thrower?









I have some bed frame angle to use for framing and mounting the engine. And to reinforce the sheetmetal "chassis". I will need to run a jackshaft and bearings to get the power from the engine to the pulleys.

No hurry, need to gather parts for the jackshaft and sprockets/pulleys...


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## bwdbrn1 (Nov 24, 2010)

Motorcycle engine and transmission on a single stage snow thrower. Interesting concept. Hope you keep us up to date on your progress, and throw in a video of it when you're done.

Just curious, why can't you use it as a motorcycle anymore?


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## uhall (Dec 17, 2012)

That's going to be a neat experiment. Hope it works for you.

Just to let you know, you don't need a title for the bike as long as you keep it a dirtbike only. You only need a title to license it for the street. 

And if it is cursed, find out if it had a name like Christine


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

hello zjrog ,welcome to SBFhow do you plan on balancing the dirt bike engine on the single stages puney frame and is the frame robust enough for what is probally an 8 - 10 hp motor as opposed to the forces a 3.5hp motor would put on it


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

Original owner wrecked the bike the first ride. But I believe there are other reasons. But it does run at least. The idea for this came from a few too many brews with the friend I got the bike from... Will it work? I don't know. It'll probably spin the paddles into shreds... But will be a conversation piece regardless.


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

I know the guy that claims its cursed, so I won't go against his wishes. Small community. Hmm, name for the project... I'll think on that. Besides, after breaking my back last year, riding motorcycles isn't something I'm ready for just yet.

detdrbuzzard, I intend to reinforce the sheetmetal with angle on the drive side. Then build up a frame for the jackshaft and use plate to mount the engine to that. If thats not enough, I can always plate add more plate. I want to set the engine/trans as low as I can, but that requires setting the engine back so it won't interfere with the chute. Plenty of details to wrap it up, but I want to get it running first. If its a worthwhile device, I can blow it apart this summer and bead blast it, cleanup any welding and maybe powder coat it. The other plus to the Yard Man thrower, the paddles have a metal frame as opposed to just rubber.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Just me but I believe I'd find a two stage with a bad motor and cobble something out of that. That's going to be lots of engine for a little machine. Harley tried it once and made a pretty good success though...SPORTSTER.


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## Colored Eggs (Dec 7, 2012)

Whats the approximate hp on that engine? I'm not sure how this really can help you but I have seen some of the new single stage snow blowers with 205 cc 4 cycle engines on them. I just checked my 5 hp model and it has a 139 cc engine in it and it has a lot less metal than that snow blower has.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Modified SS*

That is an interesting plan. I've seen and thought about using something on a 2 stage but never even thought about that on a single stage. Congrats, that's a brilliant idea!


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

If a dead 2 stage shows up, I'll alter my plans accordingly. The engine is about 10HP or so. And I have idea what the gear reduction will be. I'm going to "fudge" gear and pulley choices at the jackshaft. Pulleys are readily available at a local industrial shop. But the gear choice will be what I can find to fit, basically.


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## Dennygkarven (Jan 2, 2013)

It's a nice concept given by zjrog.Using Motorcycle engine as a single stage snow thrower. We can get all this material at our home or at any salvage place. So what the need of waiting. just go and make the snow thrower.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

Dennygkarven said:


> It's a nice concept given by zjrog.Using Motorcycle engine as a single stage snow thrower. We can get all this material at our home or at any salvage place. So what the need of waiting. just go and make the snow thrower.


thats one project thats not going to be as simple as it sounds. which gear do you put the trans in? even in 1st if its self or auger propelled will have you jogging


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

*Gearing*



detdrbuzzard said:


> thats one project thats not going to be as simple as it sounds. which gear do you put the trans in? even in 1st if its self or auger propelled will have you jogging


Assuming you use the normal drive. it would need to be in the ballpark of the rpms that the oem engine output was. If it's a direct pulley hookup, whatever the oem engine is set to.


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

Still giving a ton of thought to speed of the auger. I expect the Chinese engine to be about 10HP. I'm not sure yet, but I imagine I need to slow the auger down a bit. So I'll use the jackshaft to slow it down. Since I need a jackshaft to get the power to the auger.

I pulled my good thrower out today but it wouldn't run. Cleaned the fuel bowl, seems like my daughter used too much 2 stroke oil in it a couple weeks back. All but WAX in it today. But heck, still snowing so I can use it again... I've been lucky to have good neighbors, since I broke my back 18 months ago, they clear the heavy stuff for me. I like to shovel for myself as I can. Its actually good for me. But nice to run the thrower today all the same.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

what are you going to do to keep the engine cool? there is no fan like the one on a snowblower engine


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

My snowthrower doesn't have a fan on it. (Single Stage 2 stroke) And hadn't given any real thought either way about cooling.


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## td5771 (Feb 21, 2011)

the flywheel under the recoil shroud has fins on it ( on 4 stroke and 2 strokes) the fins pull air in and push it back through the cooling fins. the fins are the fan

the cooling fins may be enough to keep it cool. they did on the motorcycle but they were open to the wind.

enclosed in the snowblower might get too hot. on the other hand it will be freezing weather.


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

Reviving my old thread. Life sure can get in the way and I'm leaving it at that...

The project hasn't progressed much farther than dismantling the Chinese dirtbike, and cleaning the carb of ethanol crud. The wiring harness will be stripped of what I don't need and hacked down to what it takes to run the engine and have lights, and a horn. Why the horn? I don't know! Just seems cool.

I guess I didn't flesh out the original idea as clearly as I could have. The original single stage chassis is not strong enough on its own to support the power and torque of the Chinese dirtbike clone. I have to fab additional framing to mount the engine to the chassis, and see what needs to be reinforced, either with angle stock, square tube or plate. I'm looking for a way to use a belt pulley in place of the sprocket off the output shaft. I'm probably going to weld a pulley to the sprocket itself. I would prefer to have slippage in the engine output and the jackshaft output if needed. Since the auger is metal reinforced, I expect it to hold up to and survive the power and torque, at least as long as I don't hit lots of slush or ice chunks. I hope the machine will stay cool without moving quickly. I could always be wrong though.

I do have some things to clear before getting back into this project. The car my son and his wife have been using was given back to me recently, and and the timing belt broke a month later. Ironically, I had the parts on hand, just hadn't had a chance to dig into it. My wife spent 6 weeks in the hospital and rehab facility and has been home a week. So I can get back into things. This weekend I installed additional handrails for my wife's safety on the stairways. Tomorrow, fix the front driveshaft for my Jeep and install additional lights. LED 30* lamps for the front bumper and a pair of spot offroad lights on the A pillars... After the timing belt on my Neon, I have additional lighting projects for it as well. Heaven forbid you don't dim your lights when approaching me at night. HIDs in projectors for the lowbeams, 75w highs, the same LEDs I'm adding to the Jeep, and some seriously big offroad lights with 100 watt bulbs...

Recent snows caused me to pull out my thrower, which I prepped at the end of the last season. I can't get the thing to idle worth anything and it won't run up to move snow without dieing... Ugh. I have the carb and other stuff off the project, including its electric starter that I think I'll swap to my original thrower and hope it starts and runs as before. On the other hand, my 5 month old Boxer/BullMastiff female pup entertains me as I shovel snow. She tries to catch each shovel full, so the work isn't unbearable...

There is a part of me that has been tempted to just go and buy a new 2 stage. But somehow, I just can't bring myself to spend that sort of cash.


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## darcy32171 (Nov 28, 2013)

I would have left the bike together, strip the back swing arm/wheel off, pull the seat off, pull the front tire off. Then I would have made a snowblower shroud with the existing paddles in it and mounted it to the front of the bike frame. I then would mount a set of snowblower wheels under the back of bike frame. Extend the handlebars( make your own ape hangers). After that, it would just be the matter of hooking the blower to the motor. Just my opinion.


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

I would think that the biggest issue here is going to be the engine rpm's. What rpm's did the original motor run. Does the clone rev up to the standard 3,600 rpm's that pretty much all blowers and mower and tillers and pressure washers and.... use?? Or, does the dirt bike motor rev up high like I would expect from a dirt bike?? If you spin the auger at 6,000 rpm's I have no idea what will happen but it might not be safe.


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## sparc (Oct 21, 2013)

Check the condition of the auger assembly and make sure it has good rubber on it too. After 20 years, the metal that supports the rubber auger paddles can get beat up. The screws and their corresponding holes tend to loosen and corrode out too. I just had to replace a center piece that tends to bend/corrode/break over time which MTD sells individually.

We have the 4.5hp mtd of this era (1993) and it's surprisingly powerful. Can't imagine what a motorcycle engine would do.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

scipper77 said:


> I would think that the biggest issue here is going to be the engine rpm's. What rpm's did the original motor run. Does the clone rev up to the standard 3,600 rpm's that pretty much all blowers and mower and tillers and pressure washers and.... use?? Or, does the dirt bike motor rev up high like I would expect from a dirt bike?? If you spin the auger at 6,000 rpm's I have no idea what will happen but it might not be safe.


this is one project i truely bleave is going nowhere. it won't matter if the motor is enclosed in the housing or not its going to over heat. other than first gear and neutral there is no gear for walking as slow as a snowblower moves and creeping in first gear will cause the enging to over heat. the engine probally has between 7 and 10 hp probally has to be reved up around 7500 + rpm to make that hp


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

Since the project is a single stage, I am currently limiting myself to auger speed. Granted, it can feel like its pulling pretty good at times with the stock 2 stroke. With the engine sitting out in the open, I don't really expect to run into overheating issues. I spent a lot of time on air cooled motorcycles in the desert, and I'm fairly confident that I shouldn't overheat at lower engine RPMs.

I'm not sure what RPM will be optimum. And I'm only guessing the stock 2 stroke ran at 3600 RPM. So I guess finding which gear the engine powerband likes for snow throwing will dictate that, and determine running temperatures. I'll see if I can borrow an optical tach to read auger speeds when I get that far. I also need to drop by a motorcycle shop to see if I can find a larger sprocket than the output of the engine trans. Not much bigger. That will be attached to a jackshaft. The other end of the jackshaft will have a pulley that will hold the belt to run the auger. 

The auger is metal framed, unlike my other machine. Which is why I originally thought more power might be fun. *IF* this is a viable project, I will replace the rubbers. But I will check all hardware and replace the bearings regardless. Otherwise, I can't imagine there is any way to improve the auger so its best left alone.

Controls, I will run a motorcycle throttle with friction speed control. Of course, it has electric start and the kill switch as well. A motorcycle clutch will let me disengage the auger as well as the original deadhand tensioner. This should allow a larger degree of safety in case something gets stuck. I'll consider adding a tach. As stated I want LED lighting and I'm keeping the horn. With electrics available, I could add chute electric controls if I want. But a hand crank chute could be powered off a battery drill.

For Darcy32171, Thats a little more engineering than I'm prepared to do, and expense I'd rather avoid... My goal is something fun, something that will get looks, but certainly move snow. I KNOW this can't possibly replace or keep up with a 2 stage unit. But it might be more fun.

detdrbuzzard, I understand your points, but I don't expect to run this wide open ever, and probably never more than 2nd gear. I doubt the auger would hold its shape if the engine ever revved to the 6500+ range regardless of gearing. I need to respect the limitations of the original parts I am keeping. But maximize what I add...

Again, as mentioned, I have other projects to get out of the way. But with nearly a foot of snow on the ground the last few days, it seems this year is going to be heavy. I'd rather not count on the kind ness of neighbors. And, I would rather not mix 2 stroke fuel if I can avoid it. A friend asked why I didn't just put a Harbor Freight 6.5 HP clone on it... That might happen if I can't get the motorcycle engine to work out. So I need to get on this project sooner than later... Yeah, not everyone wants a hotrod snow thrower. But I do.


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

I am not sure I understand how you are going to gear the engine. Traditionally what you would do is size the pulleys so that the engine runs at whatever rpms give peak horse power and at the same time the auger runs at its maximum safe speed. You would use a governer to ensure the system can not be run any faster than that. The only calculations required is to determine the sizes of pulleys to get the correct speeds of motor and auger relative to each other. A tack would be nice to verify engine rpms are correct. Hope this helps.


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## detdrbuzzard (Jan 20, 2012)

scipper77 said:


> I am not sure I understand how you are going to gear the engine. Traditionally what you would do is size the pulleys so that the engine runs at whatever rpms give peak horse power and at the same time the auger runs at its maximum safe speed. You would use a governer to ensure the system can not be run any faster than that. The only calculations required is to determine the sizes of pulleys to get the correct speeds of motor and auger relative to each other. A tack would be nice to verify engine rpms are correct. Hope this helps.


 peak power is probally up around 7500 rpm or more


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

Also, If you have a 150cc engine putting out 10 HP I think we can be pretty sure it's running faster than 3,600 RPM's. 

I guess you would need to also figure out the belt size and routing. How are you planning on engaging the belt? Is a friction speed control you mentioned like a go kart clutch. 

And lastly, if using a throttle that doesn't disengage when you let go I would consider a tethered kill switch.


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## scipper77 (Dec 4, 2013)

detdrbuzzard said:


> peak power is probally up around 7500 rpm or more


So that means the engine pulley pretty small and/or auger side would need a large pulley.

I know you stated that this project might be going nowhere but as I like to tinker I say we offer the best advice we can and hope for the best. Projects like this are great learning experiences even if they fail. The only angle that will make me try to squash this project is the safety aspect.


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

First rendition is going to be as simple as can be. So, the sprocket on the jackshaft will be a tooth or two bigger than sprocket on the engine. I'm going to use a jackshaft to get the power from the engine to side of the thrower close to the stock engine location. Probably moved back a couple inches. I've not decided what size pulley on the other end of the jackshaft should be. Actually, I haven't really thought about it yet. I'm sure if I had solid numbers for speeds on the paddles and output sprocket on the engine, the rest would be easily figured by someone smarter than me... But then again, thats where the multiple gears come in. I just need to find a gear that keeps the engine happy and still chuck snow.

Multiple ways to stop the paddles will double safety. Original dead hand for the paddles will work and using the clutch on the dirtbike engine. Kittens will probably appreciate that. I can readily use a motorcycle friction cruise control to hold engine speed. Worked OK on my old KZ400 years ago, should be fine for this. BAsically a mechanical dumb cruise control. Not a gocart clutch, sorry.

I reread the thread and realized I've been mixing terminology. I started using the term auger when I should have been saying paddles all along. Hence that created some confusion over single and two stage machines. I have no intention of shrouding the motorcycle engine, so it will be out in the open for best cooling. I highly doubt the engine itself will ever run at its highest speed, or make its max horsepower. And as mentioned, it may be a useless waste of time on my part. Or it might be the hit of the neighborhood... But its always fun to tinker...


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## GMH (Dec 31, 2013)

"I have some bed frame angle to use for framing and mounting the engine."
Don't use the bedframe angle, as it is extremely low quality. It is very brittle and WILL crack under the vibration.


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## zjrog (Dec 28, 2012)

Yeah, I've been thinking about that bed frame angle. I've used it for other stuff, tough as all get out to drill, welds well though. But yes, brittle, and probably worse when cold. With vibration, maybe worse still. Need to hit a metal recycler for other stuff too. I do have 3" angle but thats overkill. And I found out I can get some plate cut for free when I do the engine mounts. Of course, the guy that will cut it gets material for free, and I can get whatever I want. As long as its 3/8"... I guess my engine mounts will be as small as I can make them, I like free... But by golly, that engine ought to be solid...

I FINALLY got my car out of the garage, a timing belt/tensioner/waterpump change and lighting upgrades are done. I have more to do, but the garage is free. So, my next couple projects wrap around a welding cart and then the thrower.


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