# Toro impeller bushing modification



## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Hello All.....

I know I'm an Ariens guy...... But.....

I was servicing a toro 10/28 machine for a friend, came across the old worn out impeller bushing issue that all owners have or will address on thier toro. I didnt find a thread here about replacing the OE design with a bearing, so I decided to make one up and post it here for others to see the process. 

Here they are side by side...









Used an Ariens axle bearing... ( Also on newer Ariens impellers )









Used an Ariens impeller bearing flange setup, can be found on any 24" machine...









Originally I was going to put spacers in between the flanges to keep from crushing the flange as bearing didn't fit into toro bucket hole, and then bolt on the bucket as toro one was. Didn't like that setup, so i decided to open up the bucket hole and install bearing assembly like an Ariens.

Had to remove only 80 thousands to make bearing fit nice and snug ...

















Flange plate holes were slightly different than OE ones, I decided to rat tail file them to fit rather than drill three new holes...









Flange plate lined up nicely....









Completed installation.....










Hope this write up helps others with thier machines, and pictures are clear as to what was done.
If there are any questions please ask and I'll do my best to answer.


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

How are you dealing with the endplay?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*You know if you got the bearing and flanges from and old school TORO it would of bolted right up in there. and you would not have had to waste time Dicking around with that 1.k:k:k:k:k: And that is All the more I am saying on THAT 1.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

**** should have done this on mine didn't know about this until it was put back together


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *You know if you got the bearing and flanges from and old school TORO it would of bolted right up in there. and you would not have had to waste time Dicking around with that 1.k:k:k:k:k: And that is All the more I am saying on THAT 1.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *


To Mr powershift93.....

It's sad when I see people like yourself who would rather have just negative remarks and comments instead of helping others. If you had this knowledge of using older Toro parts to address this issue with their bushing why didn't you post up a thread of your findings and help others with this great modification / improvement ?? 
If you did post up your findings to help members here and my search missed it I apologize and please disregard my comments. 

I'm not one to bash or start BS, but I took what you said Very personally. Since the day I found and joined this forum I have done nothing but help others, either by posting pictures or offering suggestions that I've learned in over 35 years in the trades. Several members have come by my house and we repaired their machines, no charge, all I asked for was a handshake and a thank you with the possibility of a pay it forward favor to another person in need. 

Now that I'm done with my rant, I apologize if I've offended anybody. Had to get that off my chest.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

351beno said:


> How are you dealing with the endplay?


Where do you expect to have end play ?? 
The id of bearing was roughly .881, it slid perfectly on to the impeller shaft and od was exact size of flange plate, bearing had no free play in the bucket opening. The pulley slides on to the impeller shaft where it was from the factory. 
I might be missing what you are calling end play, if I am please give me more details so I can better understand what your asking. I still have machine here, I can go check to see what you are asking about.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

shaw
in a simple fix,that stock bushing bearing. where that stud is threaded in, drill it out all the way though, tape 1/4x 24 and install a grease fitting, the zerk works like the stud to keep the bushing from spinning in the clamp housing, a few shot of grease each season ends the toro seizing on the shaft problem i personally suffered from many times.
this also works on both auger end bearings and axle legs

also on both of my powershifts i had the leg/axle bearings lock up on the axle.spin in the leg, i reinstalled the bearing in the legs with the aid of 2 small sheet metal screws and a angled zerk no more axle problems


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

Shaw351 said:


> To Mr powershift93.....
> 
> It's sad when I see people like yourself who would rather have just negative remarks and comments instead of helping others. If you had this knowledge of using older Toro parts to address this issue with their bushing why didn't you post up a thread of your findings and help others with this great modification / improvement ??
> If you did post up your findings to help members here and my search missed it I apologize and please disregard my comments.
> ...


I don't think he's being negative its just the way his typing and verbiage comes across

He posted something helpful about this topic and others on my rebuild thread. Unfortunately I read it after the job was done.


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

The endplay is from the gearbox. On the stock bearing one side has a flat spot that needs to face out toward the pulley. They put washer between the pulley and bearing most of the washers are missing or broken so I always use a new one. Before you tighten the pulley setscrews rotate the augers back and forth you will see the impeller shaft move in and out. Hold the impeller shaft toward the rear to take the play out then a light tap on the pulley to make sure its down and tighten the set screws. Than spin the pulley to make sure it rotates good. If done this way I have never had a problem with the stock setup. Early failures are from improper install of the bearing, impeller fins bent, or bad belt tension.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

87 powershift said:


> shaw
> in a simple fix,that stock bushing bearing. where that stud is threaded in, drill it out all the way though, tape 1/4x 24 and install a grease fitting, the zerk works like the stud to keep the bushing from spinning in the clamp housing, a few shot of grease each season ends the toro seizing on the shaft problem i personally suffered from many times.
> this also works on both auger end bearings and axle legs
> 
> also on both of my powershifts i had the leg/axle bearings lock up on the axle.spin in the leg, i reinstalled the bearing in the legs with the aid of 2 small sheet metal screws and a angled zerk no more axle problems


Thanks for the information, I'll see how worn the next one is I come across and install zerk fitting. I love the idea of a greasable bushing over a bearing. To be honest I never thought of adding one, great idea. This was only my 2nd Toro as I tend to stay with ariens.

This is why snowblower forum site is awesome, sharing & swapping ideas to help others doing their repairs, and perpetuating the trade.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

tdipaul said:


> I don't think he's being negative its just the way his typing and verbiage comes across
> 
> He posted something helpful about this topic and others on my rebuild thread. Unfortunately I read it after the job was done.


Thanks for the reply, if he did post up help ... my search didn't come up with the results and I posted to disregard my ranting as I never want hard feelings or animosity with anyone if I made a mistake. I did take his words as negative and counter productive, could of said " Hey guys , check out what I did to address this issue in tdipaul's rebuild thread " rather than post what he did. I'll try different words and phrases in future searches to try to get posted information on the subject I'm researching. I'll check out your thread as information is always useful, especially from the guys turning the wrenches, and almost always we come up with a better way or idea to address what we are working on than the manufacturer did.


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

351beno said:


> The endplay is from the gearbox. On the stock bearing one side has a flat spot that needs to face out toward the pulley. They put washer between the pulley and bearing most of the washers are missing or broken so I always use a new one. Before you tighten the pulley setscrews rotate the augers back and forth you will see the impeller shaft move in and out. Hold the impeller shaft toward the rear to take the play out then a light tap on the pulley to make sure its down and tighten the set screws. Than spin the pulley to make sure it rotates good. If done this way I have never had a problem with the stock setup. Early failures are from improper install of the bearing, impeller fins bent, or bad belt tension.


Thanks for the information, I'll check out what condition this unit is in. Only my 2nd Toro I've worked on as I tend to stay with ariens. This bushing was trashed, didn't see a washer at all. Must of been ground off from shaft movement or previous repair person didn't put one back on. I'll take up end play when I assemble this setup on Saturday, have many spacers & washers here. Proper setup then is to pull out end play on impeller shaft and have it held in place with pulley snug against bushing, ( bearing in my modified case, and I'll make sure my washer / spacer is snugged against bearing center hub and not the bearing seal ). I'll post up what it looks like when I'm done. Thanks again.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

Shaw351 said:


> Thanks for the information, I'll see how worn the next one is I come across and install zerk fitting. I love the idea of a greasable bushing over a bearing. To be honest I never thought of adding one, great idea. This was only my 2nd Toro as I tend to stay with ariens.
> 
> This is why snowblower forum site is awesome, sharing & swapping ideas to help others doing their repairs, and perpetuating the trade.


i learned to this mod after suffering a sieze up in a sunday snow storm,on my 87 624 when it was 3 years old, only thing i could do was take it apart, hone the bearing/bushing clean like wise the shaft, seeing the stud and having a brain fart, why not drill that stud hole out,tape it for a zerk that worked like the stud would also hold it right where it was stock and could be greased, worked for 6 years when i found a very low hour 824 one summer. taking it apart i found the same issue happening did like wise .never had another auger or impleller issue.

the legs on a powe shift would also do the same only the bushing would spin in the leg, careful drilling of the leg in 2 spots with screws just long enough to go 1/2 though the same bushing with some added locktite . i drilled in a thin area added a angled zerk so it could be reached easy.
the legs look carefully at the thin shims between the axle pins and leg as they control end play, as they do wear though,personally i found i had to add more to end the sideways endplay, tractor supply helped with them . shaft shims for farm machinery


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

The Toro bushings are oil impregnated; they're intended to be oiled rather than greased.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*To all that this may concern when I am here in this place called cyberspace. I am half dead to the world after coming off 10-12 hour work days. so I just glaze over a lot of things. if something should stick in my craw I remember it the next day or 2. or sometimes never. I was overhauling snowblowers long before this was a place here in cyberspace. so all of my info is stuck up in me fragile little mind. THE BROTHERS were done long before I ever showed up here. so there are no threads on them. most of the time people call me out here if they need help. and I will always help anybody that wants it. other wise I just keep my big mouth shut and toss oot the ALOHA'S from the Paradise City. or rant on aboot something in what did I do today. I only know About TORO'S Big boys from Sunrise to 2004 the last ride of THE POWERSHIFT'S. SO IF ANYONE HAS ANY QUESTIONS ABOOT THOSE, JUST CALL ME OOT.k:k:k:k:k:*


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

Hey 351beno... I did check the gearbox on this Toro I'm servicing and Wow.... What end play there was. Have you taken apart one of these gearboxes apart to see where it is being generated from ??
It looks to be about 3/16th to 1/4 inch movement, not sure if that's normal or this unit is badly worn. Wondering if I should tear into this gearbox to see how to correct the shaft movement. 

I just serviced a pro ariens gearbox last weekend and I have zero play on the impeller shaft, the design of theirs is just like an old style car spindle with two opposing tapered roller bearings on the shaft, then a take up bolt for no play. Those pictures are in my 32" rebuild thread.


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

classiccat said:


> The Toro bushings are oil impregnated; they're intended to be oiled rather than greased.


please let me call your attention to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oilite
oilite bearings are meant to be replaced only, you truly can not reoil them when they go dry,

like a few others in this site who are real certified auto techs we have learned by what we call in dealerships the school of hard knocks, we learned how to see what caused a item to fail lots of times we work out a fix that helps big time. we learned how to save time over the some times very long winded shop manual instructions, 

today's pricing from the toro web site 2 auger and 1 impeller bushing shows a cost of $46.00 plus tax and shipping, each pivot arm assembly is another $47.00, on the pivots i found when the bushings go dry,they lock on the axle spinning in the leg making the bore over sized, the bushing is a separate part number for about $7.00, but worthless when the leg bore is bad,

i have posted/ made this work available to help aid others make a machine last longer while trying to also help someone who may possibly not have the cash needed to purchase new or NOS . fix for little cost, that shot or two of grease works wonders


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## classiccat (Mar 1, 2014)

87 powershift said:


> i have posted/ made this work available to help aid others make a machine last longer while trying to also help someone who may possibly not have the cash needed to purchase new or NOS . fix for little cost, that shot or two of grease works wonders


My apologies...It appeared that you're advising folks to grease oil-impregnated bronze as routine maintenance; You're recommending only for parts that are beyond normal serviceability. 

Routine maintenance on serviceable oil-impregnated bronze should be lubricated with oil as indicated in the Toro service manual: 
_"These are oil-impregnated bearings. However,
before installing them on a shaft, wipe the bearing
surface with a clean shop towel. Then apply a light
coat of engine oil to the bearing surface."_


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## 10953 (Sep 4, 2017)

classiccat said:


> My apologies...It appeared that you're advising folks to grease oil-impregnated bronze as routine maintenance; You're recommending only for parts that are beyond normal serviceability.
> 
> Routine maintenance on serviceable oil-impregnated bronze should be lubricated with oil as indicated in the Toro service manual:
> _"These are oil-impregnated bearings. However,
> ...


i do know well what toro tells us to do, in fact every one making something with oi lite states to oil on assembly , the issue becomes fact later, when the oil and bushing drys up , and has since the early 1900's when oi lite was designed, a good water proof grease stays put, hence it becomes preventive maintenance. would you rather take a machine 1/2 way apart to clean and apply oil because a shop manual tells you to? or reach in with a grease gun give it a few shots and walk away 10 mins or less later? 

in my 55 years of working as a master auto/diesel tech,up to a auto factory district service manager, i have personally never oiled, oi lite, always used a very light coat of grease, i never ever have a had a later issue, of dry bushings , 

shop manuals are aids on factory assembly/repair, they always tell some one to do this or that, buy and replace when in the real world, the issue is cheaper to make a product with out a zerk and sell a new part latter. 

how long has it been since anyone saw a zerk on a cars, tie rod .ball joint or drive shaft universal joint, what we get is pre lubed forever grease,we have become a throw it away replace it world 

if the OP took the seal off that new bearing, he most likely would have found little to almost no grease inside the bearing, i know for sure as i have on a brand new $100.00 cub cadet mower blade spindle set up. yes it came from the factory with a zerk on it. issue is the 2 bearings are double end sealed so even if you did grease the spindle, NO grease would enter the bearing, next season you hear the same whine. 
take it apart remove the seal from 1 side, pack the bearing reassemble,with out the inner seal on the bearing, then each season grease till it comes out the vent hole , 5 or 6 seasons latter you may hear noise from wear, 


so in other words ask a tech about real world findings, don't always believe what you read and want to understand as golden fact, "esp on the interweb "there is always something a dealer tech/mechanic has learned in the field that works better


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## 351beno (Oct 12, 2017)

Hey shaw351 The play is normal you take it out with the pulley. I have had many toro gearbox's apart for seals. I have only had to do 2 for gears on 10+ old machines and 1 two year old powermax the gear split apart on that toro warrantied no problem. Toro knows how to build them as you can tell by the grade 5 "shear bolts". The Ariens pro box is a good one also.


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## guybb3 (Jan 31, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *You know if you got the bearing and flanges from and old school TORO it would of bolted right up in there. and you would not have had to waste time Dicking around with that 1.k:k:k:k:k: And that is All the more I am saying on THAT 1.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *


Powershift, any part numbers? I just fixed mine with the spherical bearing and would like to go the other way, in the Spring, when I'm ripping it apart to repaint everything.


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

guybb3 said:


> Powershift, any part numbers? I just fixed mine with the spherical bearing and would like to go the other way, in the Spring, when I'm ripping it apart to repaint everything.


*The part numbers I have here bearing 251-224. bearing flanges 251-229. but those numbers have been long super seeded only your local friendly hood TORO Dealer has the new numbers.*


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*And just so you all know that egg type bearing with flanges is a 20 dollar part. the sealed roller bearing alone is a 45-50 dollar part. and figure in another 10-15 for new flanges.*


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## guybb3 (Jan 31, 2014)

POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *The part numbers I have here bearing 251-224. bearing flanges 251-229. but those numbers have been long super seeded only your local friendly hood TORO Dealer has the new numbers.*


Thank you, brother. They can at least do that much for me.



POWERSHIFT93 said:


> *And just so you all know that egg type bearing with flanges is a 20 dollar part. the sealed roller bearing alone is a 45-50 dollar part. and figure in another 10-15 for new flanges.*


Worth it, yes? My old snowblower didn't blow the roller bearing for almost 25 years and it was stored outside and I didn't take care of it like I do my Toro.


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## Sid (Jan 31, 2014)

A very good interesting, robust thread. I replaced a similar light duty sheet metal flanged bearing with a cast iron flanged greasable bearing, with makeup shims. It will outlast the machine and me.
Sid


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## 69ariens (Jan 29, 2011)

Great I saw this after I replaced the one on the 826 le . O well I'm selling it any ways


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## beemer23 (Dec 14, 2017)

87 powershift said:


> shaw
> in a simple fix,that stock bushing bearing. where that stud is threaded in, drill it out all the way though, tape 1/4x 24 and install a grease fitting, the zerk works like the stud to keep the bushing from spinning in the clamp housing, a few shot of grease each season ends the toro seizing on the shaft problem i personally suffered from many times.
> this also works on both auger end bearings and axle legs
> 
> also on both of my powershifts i had the leg/axle bearings lock up on the axle.spin in the leg, i reinstalled the bearing in the legs with the aid of 2 small sheet metal screws and a angled zerk no more axle problems


I have my blower apart and putting a new bushing/bearing in and was thinking of doing something similar, but the bushing Toro are now using does not have that stud/set screw and they say it is the revised version. Any thoughts as to how to do a grease fitting. Don't know what drilling a hole into the bushing would do. I am new to this, first time inside my blower, which is a 2008 Power Max 6000. model 38597. Thanks for any advice. I guess if this bushing lasts as long as the first, that it will probably out last me anyways so I should just install it as is.


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## John709 (Dec 15, 2021)

Shaw351 said:


> To Mr powershift93.....
> 
> It's sad when I see people like yourself who would rather have just negative remarks and comments instead of helping others. If you had this knowledge of using older Toro parts to address this issue with their bushing why didn't you post up a thread of your findings and help others with this great modification / improvement ??
> If you did post up your findings to help members here and my search missed it I apologize and please disregard my comments.
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to do this, I agree with you about negative comments. I too was considering doing this and there is very little information about modifying this incredibly poor design. Did it work out okay? Any issues ?


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## Shaw351 (Nov 15, 2016)

John709 said:


> Thank you for taking the time to do this, I agree with you about negative comments. I too was considering doing this and there is very little information about modifying this incredibly poor design. Did it work out okay? Any issues ?


Been a few years since I did this modification, as of last winter it was running perfectly. Have not serviced it this year, but I would believe its OK as I've not been notified of any problems with this machine.


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## asavage (Dec 20, 2021)

The original Toro design uses a sealed ball bearing with a collar with set screws, and after a number of hours it seems to fail fairly regularly . . .

















[ref: ClassicCat's 1987 38150 thread.]

. . . which damages the shaft it rides on and that makes it difficult to replace only the bearing, as the undersized shaft, when clamped by the set screws, now runs in an orbit instead of concentric and true.

Later Toros went to a bushing design. Presumably, the bushing material is softer than the shaft and when it wears the majority of the wear is in the bushing, not the shaft surface. Those can be modified for a grease zerk [Ref. 140278]. But a modified grease gun (with a rigid extension) is required to access the zerk, between the auger sheave and the bearing support wall. Not a big deal, IMO. Retrofitting an older ball-bearing Toro with the newer oilite bushing design (further modified by adding a grease zerk) seems like a mild upgrade -- if the old Toro still has a shaft with a reasonable bearing surface. Mine (38150, 1985) sure isn't in a condition to support a bushing anymore, it's not only modestly undersize but quite rough. Bushings do _not_ like rough bearing surfaces. By the time I remove enough material to polish the shaft's bearing surface, it will be more than moderately undersize.

Neither the bushing nor ball bearing significantly control auger gearbox input shaft ("impeller shaft") end-play. In normal operation, the input shaft is pushed back toward the engine, and that thrust load is handled by a Torrington thrust bearing, Toro 252-76, inside the gearbox. 



















The sheave can be located randomly on the shaft, but to prevent it from wandering laterally -- the auger gearbox has quite a bit of internal clearance in the non-loaded direction -- the sheave can be placed up against the bushing or bearing or bearing collar.

Back to ball bearings: A problem with using a ball bearing in this location is the operating environment is severe service, so the bearing should be protected and regreaseable; it doesn't require much water intrusion to snowball into bearing failure. For that reason, I'm thinking of replacing my early sealed ball bearing design with a regreaseable version. See that link for more information.


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## John709 (Dec 15, 2021)

asavage said:


> The original Toro design uses a sealed ball bearing with a collar with set screws, and after a number of hours it seems to fail fairly regularly . . .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks like an excellent bearing, have seen those before for industrial uses, are you using it and did it work out well? You could try an angled grease fitting that would point upward for easier access.


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## asavage (Dec 20, 2021)

I haven’t reassembled it yet, so I can’t provide feedback. While an angled zerk might be able to be accessed from above, angle adjustment would be a very narrow range, which is why I’m planning to use that hose to mount the zerk remotely (see the thread I linked in my previous post for links a pictures of the remote zerk via 12” high pressure hydraulic line that’s made specifically for this purpose).


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