# Mid 70s Toro 7/24 drive wheels not moving



## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

I am the original owner of 5hp Toro 2 stage snowblower that I purchased in 1976 or so with my paper route money. In all the years I think I have replaced the belts maybe 2 or 3 times. Virtually never clogs and always starts. This summer when I went to run it (I run it once a month all year and run ethanol free gas in the off season) it stopped moving in forward or reverse. There is no change in rpms when I put it into forward or reverse. I removed the belt cover and both belts are engaging as normal. 

I have never had to remove the plate in the underside of the blower to get to what I think is a friction plate that is used to engage the wheels. Does not look to hard to get to. 

My question is what is the first thing I should look for to diagnose the the problem? 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

Quick vid of it running a few years back for your enjoyment.


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## Ziggy65 (Jan 18, 2020)

Put the machine in the service position and remove the belly pan for an inspection.

It could be a damaged friction disc or dirty drive plate, vermin nest or seized components from lack of lubrication and maintenance.

Post some photos of the internals, will help with diagnosing issues.

Removing the belly pan and lubing components, inspecting internals is something that should be done every year or at least every couple of years. You have been very lucky to not have had issues for the past 45 years considering this has not been done.

Have you pulled the wheels off and lubed the axles, inspected the axle bushings during ownership?


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## db130 (Feb 16, 2013)

Hi, @lawnguy can you post the 5-digit model number of your 70s vintage toro snowblower? 

It looks similar to the *Toro 31624* I used to have which I believe was from 1974. 

My guess is that yours is a 38040, if you bought it in '76.


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## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

Ziggy65 said:


> Put the machine in the service position and remove the belly pan for an inspection.
> 
> It could be a damaged friction disc or dirty drive plate, vermin nest or seized components from lack of lubrication and maintenance.
> 
> ...


No I have not. Tried about 15 years ago and could not get them to budge. One tire has a slow leak. Found a guy who gave me some advise on how to add a tube with out taking the wheel off.


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## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

db130 said:


> Hi, @lawnguy can you post the 5-digit model number of your 70s vintage toro snowblower?
> 
> It looks similar to the *Toro 31624* I used to have which I believe was from 1974.
> 
> My guess is that yours is a 38040, if you bought it in '76.


38040 sounds familiar. Will look tonight and post.


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## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

Ziggy65 said:


> Put the machine in the service position and remove the belly pan for an inspection.
> 
> It could be a damaged friction disc or dirty drive plate, vermin nest or seized components from lack of lubrication and maintenance.
> 
> ...


Sorry - also will most likely will be this weekend before I can find the time to pull it out of the shed to take belly plate off. I may have done this years ago just to look inside to see how it worked. Do not recall if I did any real lubrication of it other than spraying some WD-40 and maybe grease any gears I saw. Between today and this weekend anything I should pick up to do the lubricating?


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## UNDERTAKER (Dec 30, 2013)

*Chain Lube, A Tub Of Black Lithium Grease. Friction Plate. Sounds Like A Rats Nest In There If You Ask Me.*


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## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

UNDERTAKER said:


> *Chain Lube, A Tub Of Black Lithium Grease. Friction Plate. Sounds Like A Rats Nest In There If You Ask Me.*


Hoping not. My shed has no evidence of any pests, something I always look out for. I am in and out of there once a week at least. Should have also noted the drive system was working fine. Started the machine and went up and down the drive two or three times as I do every month. Let it run idling for about 10 minutes. Went to drive it back the shed and that is when it would not engaged in any of the three forward or two reverse speeds. Will post what I find when I open her up. Will also take the time to remove the plate on the 7hp one and lube it all up.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yeah, you don't want to skip the maintenance, as things will quickly rust and seize up ... I am thinking possible friction disc failure, or a broke spring? 

You'll see once you take the inspection belly pan off what needs to be done ...... Wheels, augers, etc. should be spun on their axle/shafts periodically and lubed properly or put some Never-Seize on them.


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## KJSeller (Nov 3, 2021)

What ever happened? I'm guessing the rubber on the friction disc is broke or worn down to the point or won't drive the snowblower.


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## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

KJSeller said:


> What ever happened? I'm guessing the rubber on the friction disc is broke or worn down to the point or won't drive the snowblower.


Will not get a chance to pull the plate and take a look until this weekend. Pesky job and kids keep taking my garage time!


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## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

So here is what I found. Appears friction disk and wheel are good. The axel the chain is connected to is where the issue appears. The sprocket the chain is on spins freely on the axel. Wheels spin freely no matter if in gear or not. Link to video below. So do I have to pull that small chain sprocket? Hard for me to tell if there is a cotter pin or other mechanism to lock it to the axel. Not looking forward to getting my fat hands into that tight space!









New video by Huntley Jackson







photos.app.goo.gl


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

looks like there is a key on the shaft that has failed.





Toro 38050, 724 Snowthrower, 1979 (SN 9000001-9999999) Parts Diagram for TRACTION ASSEMBLY


Toro 38050, 724 Snowthrower, 1979 (SN 9000001-9999999) TRACTION ASSEMBLY Exploded View parts lookup by model. Complete exploded views of all the major manufacturers. It is EASY and FREE



www.jackssmallengines.com


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## KJSeller (Nov 3, 2021)

+1 on a possible key missing. That drive disc is rusty and needs a cleaning as well. You can use a scotch Brite pad to get it cleaned. I would also clean the rubber on the drive disc.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Yes, dismantle time .... Sheared/missing key in my opinion.


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## asavage (Dec 20, 2021)

Your video made all the difference.


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## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

So I ran to my local toro dealer. They quoted $250 to $300 given the time it will take to get to the parts. They indicated you have to disassemble much of the traction system to get to it. Anyone replace those parts without fully taking the area apart?


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

Now you know why people discard blowers ..... Most don't have the tools, time, space or the know how to repair them. Or the desire......


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

Ya unfortunately if you pay a dealer they will likely charge an arm and leg. Might be better to try finding a more reasonable place to get it done. I would guess you could still $100 from a more reasonable small shop since it does look like a time consuming job even tho it is something so stupid as a broken key. Heck if there is a master link on that chain and you can get the gear off you might be able to replace the key without taking the shaft out of the machine


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## KJSeller (Nov 3, 2021)

crazzywolfie said:


> Ya unfortunately if you pay a dealer they will likely charge an arm and leg. Might be better to try finding a more reasonable place to get it done. I would guess you could still $100 from a more reasonable small shop since it does look like a time consuming job even tho it is something so stupid as a broken key. Heck if there is a master link on that chain and you can get the gear off you might be able to replace the key without taking the shaft out of the machine


He could probably do that, but I would be more inclined to clean up everything and lube all parts. I doubt a shop would do that job for only $100. Check YouTube for a video of that model. There maybe be something seized in amongst all those parts.


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## asavage (Dec 20, 2021)

I haven't worked on this model, but from the pic below it seems . . . if the left handlebar is removed, there may be sufficient clearance to remove the chain and small sprocket and replace the key (and possibly the sprocket, if its keyway is in poor condition) without removing the assy.

However, I'm not saying this would be easy. Only that it looks possible. And the shaft's keyway may not be in good condition. A sprocket's setscrew is not sufficient to transmit torque, that's the job of the key and mating keyways, so either shaft/sprocket replacement, or machining, might be necessary.










I have known people who, faced with this, would remove the chain and weld the sprocket to the shaft, in place. Woe to the next person who has to service it, but I've seen it done 

If the parts are removed from the machine, and the keyways are beat up, the sprocket/shaft could be carefully bored to fit a pin. Not a hollow ("roll") pin, but a solid pin with a slight interference fit. It's doubtful the sprocket's hub contains sufficient material to use a through-bolt (like auger-to-auger shaft).

Done right, this is machining, but I've done this sort of thing on a simple mill-drill. Not really a drill bit kind of operation. But the parts could be saved, if they are NLA or prohibitively expensive.

It's all a time/money trade-off.


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## crazzywolfie (Jun 2, 2014)

KJSeller said:


> He could probably do that, but I would be more inclined to clean up everything and lube all parts. I doubt a shop would do that job for only $100. Check YouTube for a video of that model. There maybe be something seized in amongst all those parts.


It's not like there is much to lube so I don't see a shop not lubing it. I know 1 guy here who only charges $40/h assuming that is 2 hours of work plus parts and supplies that is $100. I doubt there is a bunch of seized parts with how good it all looks. The key is old and like just broke. The key used on those are tiny. If it could be fixed without dismantling the job would likely be even cheaper


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## lawnguy (Sep 29, 2010)

KJSeller said:


> He could probably do that, but I would be more inclined to clean up everything and lube all parts. I doubt a shop would do that job for only $100. Check YouTube for a video of that model. There maybe be something seized in amongst all those parts.


I would enjoy tackling the repair job myself, but right now its a matter of time and space. I may see if I can get the chain off and get to the key that way. If not I will check a more mom and pop repair place. If both do not work out back into the shed it goes until the spring/summer when I have room and time to play with it. Hate to see it go. Quick correction - it was purchased in 1978. About $480 as I recall. Parents and friends thoughts I was nuts. 

Thank you everyone for the help!


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