# ToroVsSimplicity $1600-$1800 segment



## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Hey guys. First post but I’ve been lurking for a month or two. You have a great community here!

A few weeks ago I bought a h1226e simplicity and ran it in a 8” very heavy, wet snow. I have a massive driveway with a big hill and it performed “just ok”. It had a B and S 1150 snow motor (11.5 tq) and it didn’t clog but only threw the snow 4’-15’. Anyway, it was spitting blue flames and the muffler was glowing orange. It looked like that tv show forged in fire. I called the dealer and they agreed to take it back and refund my money.

Since that dealer only had $1400 and $2500 blowers with nothing in between, I went to another dealer who sells Toro, simplicity and Honda. The Honda’s are gorgeous (can I use “gorgeous” when describing a snowblower??) but I can’t justify $2779 for the electric start hss928 when the chute and jet issues are still up in the air. The chute redesign is not yet proven 100% and I’m not swapping out ANY part of the carb on a brand new, with tax $3,000 machine. It’s a shame really. They give you a $200 Visa prepaid card if you take the 0% 18 mo finance. I’d do it in a heartbeat if there were no negative reviews on clogging and power but for that much money I’m not dealing with anything less than superb performance.

I decided to settle into the $1600-$1800 range. That gives me the best balance power, clearing width and features for my needs which is basically a 500’ long and 16’ wide driveway with a fairly steep slope. I live in NW NJ so we usually get 3”-8” storms of very heavy, wet snow but one or two 12” - 24+” storms per year can be expected as well. 

That price range leaves me with getting a simplicity signature 1728 (not to be confused with the p1728e) for $1699 or a toro 1028oxhe (38841) for $1649.

My concerns with the toro is the fact that the nice balance, which is great for maneuverability, could result in “riding up” on snow with its light front end. especially on my hill. The simplicity h1226e that I had for 1 day was nose heavy and went through everything without climbing. It was also sure-footed on the hill. I know they have a weight kit for the toro but I’d rather not spend another $100 right off the bat when the simplicity has all its weight up front already. I realize the toro will be easier to handle but I hate having to lift up on the handlebars to create downward pressure. Can anyone comment who has a new power max HD? Does it indeed “ride up?”

The toro has a 302 cc loncin (canbot find the toque) The simp has a 420cc 16.5 tq Briggs professional snow. 

The simplicity this year ditched the gear drive so the new 1728 has friction disc like the pro line. Also, the electric chute switches are redesigned because of failure problems. Toro has that neat stick.

The toro 1028 now has an all steel chute, 14” impeller (last year was 12” impeller. simplicity is 12”), and led light. It’s also cheaper than last years model.

I love the acs system (if it indeed works) and the 14” impeller on the toro but the 420 cc Briggs on the simplicity is pretty sweet. Remember, the blue flame spitting h1226e I had for one day had an 11.5 tq 250 cc motor and it was underpowered but worked. 

Both have heated grips, power steering triggers, leds, and electric start.

Again, main concerns with toro: underpowered (302cc motor) and light front end.

Main concerns with simplicity signature 1728: the h1226e I returned last week shot blue flames (compete different engine though and I doubt all Briggs do that) and just the fact that Briggs now owns them and they share frame and some components with John Deere and Briggs and Stratton branded blowers, albeit with bigger more aggressive motors. The only thoroughbred simplicities are the singniture pro line. Inmy area more dealers sell simplicity than toro. I come online and there are people here from other parts of the country that have never seen one. 

Sorry if that was long but I have accumulated more information about snowblowers in the last few weeks than I ever thought possible.

What’s your vote? Simplicity Singniture 1728 or Toro Power max HD 1028 ohxe (model 38841).

Thanks! 
The Skunk


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

Ariens 30 inch sho 414 CC will smoke both those machines same money


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

I don't know much about the Simplicity, but have seen the Toro's and almost bought one. I'd go with the Toro. I was pleased with the build quality of them back when I was looking. There are a lot of Toro dealers and the deals are just as good there as at the big box stores.

Good advice about the Ariens 30 inch Sho from 1132le


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

I’d have to go a bit further for an Ariens and I’m not sure they’d deliver (about 20 miles away). I didn’t really consider an Ariens for two reason: the distance to the dealer (do dealers pick up for free for warranty work?) and the fact that when I was a kid in the late 80’s early 90’s my dad had an Ariens and it was the biggest POS in the world. But then again, knowing my dad, it was probably the cheapest 2 stage model they sold and most likely undersized. That was probably part of the reason it performed so bad. Lol I’m actually thinking this out for the first time as I’m writing. I guess it’s not fair to rule out a brand over an experience 25 years ago.


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Reading more about the platinum 30 SHO. It seems some people are complains about it riding up on packed/driven over snow and EOD. This is my biggest concern.


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## 1132le (Feb 23, 2017)

BlazinSnow said:


> Reading more about the platinum 30 SHO. It seems some people are complains about it riding up on packed/driven over snow and EOD. This is my biggest concern.


Buncha bs i own the 28 with the 414cc its a freaking beast goes everything with ease


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

The tracked models do best at the end of the driveway and are much easier to use. I have a wheeled Honda and it rides up at the end of the driveway and I have to hold it down a bit. I have to back it up for a second bite sometimes. It's the HSS928 with the smaller engine, 270cc. I do wish sometimes that I had bought the bigger engine, 390cc. model.

You are right, the warranty work does not include a free pick-up and return. But most places have a fixed fee whether you are 20 miles away or 2 miles. I bought from a place 12 miles away and they charge me 75 for pickup and return. But the place 2 miles away wanted to charge me 100 bucks for just a delivery. You might ask the places what their charges are for pickup and return before you buy.


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Wow, this video makes me think twice about the platimum sho


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Instead of being sarcastic about it, why don’t you explain why the guy in the video is showing evidence that it does in fact ride up and stops moving altogether in powder? I’m asking honestly. If the guy is doing something wrong let me know. I came here to get honest advice. I just spent the last half hour researching YOUR suggestion. I have a legitimate concern and you get all butt-hurt? Come on man.


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Unless of course buying a cub cadet is you honest opinion 😁


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Miles, your comment about the tracked models is the opposite of what I’ve read? Have they changed something recently? Most of the stuff I find online is few and far between on most of these blowers. Some of the threads I’m reading are 2011-2015. I know the tech can change a lot and am wondering if the tracks got easier to handle. I would actually prefer tracks because of my hill. Which model do you have? Gravel or paved? Any slope? Thanks!


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

https://www.snowblowerforum.com/for...just-got-my-new-power-max-hd-1028-ohxe-3.html

You want to go back to your google search engine, not on the site, and type in your questions, and google will pop up stuff like this above.


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

I have the HSS928AWD which is the wheeled version with electric start. It is easier to wheel around when it is not running of course. I have a concrete driveway 75 ft. long with a mildly steep slope and I have not had any problems with the Honda getting up the hill. I've gotten the revised chute put on with the collar cut way back and it works decently. I have not had any clogging with the new chute this year. 

There have been changes recently with the Honda tracked machines. They got trigger steering in 2015 so they don't have to be pushed around with force, you just pull the trigger (like a motorcycle lever) and they turn. They have the hydrostatic transmission which is infinitely variable. Also, when you pull both triggers, the tracks free-wheel and moving the machine around in the garage is much easier. (I have never tried the tracked machine, just have read about it here.)

The Ariens Rapidtrak is their newest tracked model with adjustable tracks so it can also roll like a wheeled model they say. You can find these, the Toros and the Honda online at www.jackssmallengines.com


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

None of these machines are going to dig in compacted eod snow to the ground with any authority The reigning champ at doing this are old gravely’s but they are heavy, slow and cumbersome. 

A possible compromise is to find a nice 2015(?) or older Ariens with the setback wheel design and the cast iron gearcase, This configuration ran for a few years. But then be prepared to have to exert more 
effort to lift the front end. I guess they think a lighter front end is what people want and it is believed to provide better autoturn 
performance too.


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

BlazinSnow said:


> Miles, your comment about the tracked models is the opposite of what I’ve read? Have they changed something recently? Most of the stuff I find online is few and far between on most of these blowers. Some of the threads I’m reading are 2011-2015. I know the tech can change a lot and am wondering if the tracks got easier to handle. I would actually prefer tracks because of my hill. Which model do you have? Gravel or paved? Any slope? Thanks!


I'm just about to sign off for the night and wish you the best in your search. If you want to see where you have posted, go to Tools up above and scroll down to click on Personal Search-Post. This will list all your posts here.


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks for all your help. I’m starting to feel like $1000-$1400 for the MTD clones is OK but going to $1800 is a waste. Even the platinum SHO 30 has those thin tubular handles/frame. Seems like the really tough stuff starts at $2200 or so. At that price point, maybe the pull-start Honda 928 for $2599-$200 Visa card is the right pick. I’ll keep you all posted. 
Thanks again.


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Also, did you rejet your hss928 and if not, do you feel the power is sufficient? And your comment on the revised chute leads me to believe you don’t think it was a proper fix. Is that accurate?


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## Rob Okray (Nov 30, 2018)

Having owned an MTD clone, (cub cadet) and seeing it a few years later, and hearing about it, I would not do that again. In just a few years, it looked decades old and many of the "convenience" items were toast.


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

If you are even considering the pricy Honda's take a look at the Toro Power Max® HD 1232 OHXE (38842) the Simplicity Signature Pro Series model P2128 and the Arien's Professional 28. All of them are slightly out of your current budget but will offer a significant performance advantage over what you are currently looking at. All are very balanced machines and yes you may need a weight kit because they are so nicely balanced but what's an extra $100 over 15-20 years of use? Besides any good weld shop, ( I have 3 in my area that could do it) can make you a weight kit for 1/2 of the $100. Some folks on the forum have "brand blinders" on and cannot look at any other brand objectively.
I'm semi-retired, have a good amount of time to go looking at different brands, talk to the dealers and service guys and compare them. These are among my faves.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

BlazinSnow said:


> Wow, this video makes me think twice about the platimum sho
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q18Cequ5sv4


Blaze,
The guy who makes those videos has been much discussed in this forum over the past year. He has gotten a lot of visibility, simply because his videos exist. And if you do a youtube search relating to those models, his videos probably pop right to the top..

But..despite his visibility, he is still simply one individual, one person, and also a clueless snowblower user. His videos have been thoroughly dissected, and the conclusion from people who know about snowblowers has been: the guy just doesnt know what he is doing, and 95% of his problems are operator error.

Ignore him..no one else has the problems he has.

Scot


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## Miles (Sep 16, 2016)

BlazinSnow said:


> Also, did you rejet your hss928 and if not, do you feel the power is sufficient? And your comment on the revised chute leads me to believe you don’t think it was a proper fix. Is that accurate?


I did not rejet the Honda and think the power is just okay. It does bog down if I run it fast into the compacted end of drive pile, but if I slow down a bit, the motor picks up and it plows through just fine. The new chute worked well and we had our first snow two weeks ago. It was a wetter five inch snow and I ran the Honda along the front of the street where the plow had left a pile. It threw the wet stuff without any problems or clogs.

I have been okay with the 928, though the HSS1332 has a much bigger engine and an auger protection system. More power is always better and a 390 cc engine is powerful. Also, the auger protection system stops the augers without breaking a shear pin if you hit something. There is a gas strut so you can smoothly adjust your bucket height. Over the 30 year expected lifetime of the Honda, the difference is about $500-600 dollars for me, or twenty dollars a year. Over a 20 year expected lifetime, the difference is $30 a year. I would buy bigger if I had to do it over again.

Resale value is good on these Hondas and I see that Jack's Small engines has sold out of my model, the HSS928AWD, for the year already.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

sscotsman said:


> Blaze,
> The guy who makes those videos has been much discussed in this forum over the past year. He has gotten a lot of visibility, simply because his videos exist. And if you do a youtube search relating to those models, his videos probably pop right to the top..
> 
> But..despite his visibility, he is still simply one individual, one person, and also a clueless snowblower user. His videos have been thoroughly dissected, and the conclusion from people who know about snowblowers has been: the guy just doesnt know what he is doing, and 95% of his problems are operator error.
> ...



:iagree:* Ignore him..no one else has the problems he has.* Couldn't have said it better.


.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

BlazinSnow said:


> Wow, this video makes me think twice about the platimum sho


I removed the link to the video because it's just one guy who is upset and seems to want to use youtube to pressure Ariens into giving him his money back.
His situation doesn't represent what most owners feel from feedback on our site about Ariens in general or that model specifically.
If you search hard enough you can always find someone who is unhappy about something but IMO that video shouldn't be what anyone bases a decision to buy on.

.


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## tpenfield (Feb 24, 2015)

Enough talk about Ariens . . .


To answer the original question, I don't think a Toro will let you down. Go for it.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I have the simplicity and it is the best machine I've ever used. Built like a tank. What you have to know, is every forum has its biases, and this one happens to be ariens. Something you should know when asking for opinions. However, I got to tell you, for the money Simplicity has all the bells and whistles, heated grips, electric chute controls, etc... The fit, finish, and operation of my machine has been steller


Something else the simplicity offers is variable torque throwing system, called Power Boost for marketing purposes, you'll appreciate that, it is unique in the market. 



Also, mine is very easy to manuver. Something else to consider. 



Hope that helps.


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

Kiss4aFrog said:


> I removed the link to the video because it's just one guy who is upset and seems to want to use youtube to pressure Ariens into giving him his money back.
> His situation doesn't represent what most owners feel from feedback on our site about Ariens in general or that model specifically.
> If you search hard enough you can always find someone who is unhappy about something but IMO that video shouldn't be what anyone bases a decision to buy on.
> 
> .


Yeah, that guy was looking for a freebie.


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## dadnjesse (Nov 24, 2015)

BlazinSnow said:


> Hey guys. First post but I’ve been lurking for a month or two. You have a great community here!
> 
> The Honda’s are gorgeous (can I use “gorgeous” when describing a snowblower??)
> 
> ...


Sounds like you really want the Honda


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Ok guys the toro is out. As much as I love the acs and chute controller, the light front end and 302cc motor concern me too much. 

It’s now down to the platinum sho 30 and the signature 1728 (new model for this year-not the pro p1728e)

I like the 14” impeller of the Ariens and the fact that I can buy all the accessories at a big box store. 

The dealer is further however and in the event of a warranty claim would charge to pick up/drop off as well as a $50 delivery fee. The simplicity dealer (also sells Honda and toro) will deliver for free and would pick up/drop off free while under warranty. The dealer is also 15 minutes closer (15 vs 30). 

Engine is a tie in displacement and power but the edge in my mind goes to the Briggs in the simp.

I like the polymer shoes on the simplicity vs the steel in the Ariens but, again, Lowe’s has the polymer upgrade for $36.

If I knew they cleared snow the same way, I’d get the simplicity based solely on the dealer experience.


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## Dragonsm (Nov 24, 2015)

BlazinSnow said:


> Ok guys the toro is out. As much as I love the acs and chute controller, the light front end and 302cc motor concern me too much.
> 
> It’s now down to the platinum sho 30 and the signature 1728 (new model for this year-not the pro p1728e)
> 
> ...


Based on what you have posted above, here's my 2 cents of what I'd do if I was in your shoes. I'd go and stand behind each of the models and see if either one jumps out at me. (At this point, both the machines you have listed above are good machines that I'd trust) If neither one made me go "Yeah!!!!"....by default I would go with the Simplicity (it also has a 14" impeller). Reason being is the dealer distance and service. After having a pair of armor-skids on my current simplicity machine, I wouldn't care either way about the poly skids or the factory skids.

It's the weekend.....check them out, have some fun...and say "What the h*ll" this is the machine I'm getting and be happy. I tend to do what you are doing, and the more you research and read, the more you spin yourself around in circles.

Steve


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Thanks for the advice Steve. From everything I’ve read including the simplicity brochure, the signature 1728 has a 12” impeller. Are you thinking of the auger?


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Perhaps you’re thinking of the p1728e signature pro?


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

I should take a poll on which machine forums members think i should choose. The only voting requirement is you can’t own either brand! Lol


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## Zavie (Sep 23, 2014)

BlazinSnow said:


> I should take a poll on which machine forums members think i should choose. The only voting requirement is you can’t own either brand! Lol


(Don't look at my signature because I own both Toro and Simplicity, Lol)


I vote for the:
Simplicity 1728 (28") 420cc Signature Series 
New this year for this model:

420cc Briggs & Stratton 1450 Snow Series 4-Cycle OHV engine with Super Lo-Tone™ muffler 
Velocity™ Throwing System
NEW 23" tall auger housing
Dual LED lighting plus path lighting (who else has path lighting? ah......no one!)


Simplicity's improvements to this line make it even more of a bargain.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

928 powermax 38801 here, don't underestimate the power of the motors toro uses, the 928 with the 262 cc motor never bogged down , never had it clog from pushing it threw the eod issues unless i was trying to blow slush, 

i have used a 624 powershift from 1988 to 1997 when i got a 824 powershift ran that till last year when i got the new one, 
can't complain about the machines toro puts out , and i'm super anal about performance and assembly.


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## Dragonsm (Nov 24, 2015)

BlazinSnow said:


> Thanks for the advice Steve. From everything I’ve read including the simplicity brochure, the signature 1728 has a 12” impeller. Are you thinking of the auger?




Your right, I was flipping between the two at work comparing and mistakenly grabbed the 14” which is the auger as the impeller. I really need to not multitask.

Personally, I’ve got a simplicity pro....but I don’t get brand loyal. My brother has owned the simplicity model your looking at for a couple of years and has been happy with it.....and he’s the type that always has something to complain about. Regardless, both are good machines you are looking at and at that point service would be my deciding factor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

Hey guys! Pulled the trigger on the Signiture 1728. She’s a real beaut. Dealer is delivering and setting up with trufuel for free next week. Really hoping it flings the heavy wet stuff. With a 420cc Briggs professional series, it shouldn’t be an issue. 

All in, with tax and free delivery I was a hair over $1800. Now time for some snow!! Thanks for all your help guys! Ps: anyone know a decent one size fits all cover? It’ll be in the garage but I don’t need my kids scraping it by accident. One scrape today is a rust nightmare tomorrow.


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## BlazinSnow (Nov 30, 2018)

To be fair, that was with tax and no dealer would have delivered the Ariens for free. So $1800 vs $2000. Also, I didn’t want to risk metal shavings in the tank.


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## 132619 (Nov 20, 2018)

did you go to cramer's in PA for it? best wishes with it, toro has a universal unbranded cover listed that might work for you??, down side to a cover is they tend to allow mice to go into the machines easier and hidden, yes even inside a garage, nothing is safe from them been there gone through the head aches, end result is no cover and keeping a package of mouse magic from TSC on the machine


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## jsup (Nov 19, 2017)

I have one, I'm happy with it. Good luck, I'm interested in your feedback.


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