# electric starter ground prong replacement questions



## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

Hey there. Just bought this starter second hand off a farmer seller/salvage yard guy, really inexpensive because of one issue. Works perfect...however the prior owner sawed off the ground plug off...my electrician father did this often back in the day.

Anyway, I linked two images. The first is the switch opened up showing the ground plug (green wire)...soldered on, round base. The second image is of a replacement plug I have.

First off, do I really need to replace this? My thinking is I probably should. The problem is I don't believe one can simply buy this style of prong (let alone a standalone prong by itself) any more. Or can I? Maybe all round ground prongs are this type of base? I do have a couple old extension cords that have this style prong.

So...let's say I cannot simply buy/find the correct style base prong - so I then try this. Using a Dremel, cut off the replacement to length. Use the same Dremel cutting disc to then hog out two notches on the starter housing so the replacement u-shaped design fits snugly in the plug housing.

Then solder the replacement to the stub. Looks like the replacement is brass, the stub steel...any issues with two different metals? Also, would this be strong enough? My thinking is I need that base style of the original to fit inside there snugly in the mold top and bottom of the housing, maybe grind off a tad off the top outside edge of the stub per the thickness of the replacement, then solder it up.


Would this all work? Or is it truly necessary?

Thanks for any help/suggestions. I'm fine leaving it be...right up to the point where I get shocked if you know what I mean


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Ground plugs are only as good as the electrical outlet is grounded. Because it's a 3 prong plug outlet does mean it's grounded properly. New code today, double grounding plus two grounding rods.


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## GeekOnTheHill (Oct 11, 2018)

That plug looks wired wrong to me, even as bootleg grounds go.

Richard


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## evh (Jun 22, 2015)

A couple thoughts. I would be a bit concerned if all your soldering/welding would hold correctly. I would be concerned if it broke it would break when shoving a live electrical lead into it. 

However I do salute and commend your MacGyver skills on trying to fix it yourself with what you have. 

Here are a couple options on eBay:

The first is possibly the same starter/switch combination. You could replace the entire setup. Or, remove the switch and resell the starter without the switch (it will sell, there are plenty of people that have the good switch and broken starter).

The second is a different switch you could splice into the wires.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-Tecum...Priority!49080!US!-1:rk:4:pf:1&frcectupt=true

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecumseh-E...f:g:LiUAAOSwnipWW0K3:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true

What you might also do is eliminate the switch all together and simply splice in a 3 prong male plug like where you took that ground from. When you plug it in, it starts. Or, put a switch on the extension cord that you plug into it so you can control it.

Some food for thought.


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

Yeah, had a night to sleep on it. Not sure how I'm gonna do this. I simply wish it was possible to go to a hardware store and buy the prong - I kinda find it hard to believe that isn't possible somehow. I simply want to keep this as "original as humanly possible" if I can.

My father was an electrician, and was MacGyvering up stuff around the house all the time. I guess I learned some of that "skill" from him after all.

I've thought of finding a screw/bolt of some sort that's the same OD, and take a nut approximately the same size as the ring of this prong's base - then grind down the threads. Drill a small hole at the other end to thread the ground wire through, cut off the bolt head - then solder it up.

But I like that suggestion though. I could take a grounded extension cord with a toggle switch. Remove this switch box and wire in a male plug end. Plug it in, hit the toggle. When she fires, flip the toggle off.

That actually sounds like it would indeed work and would be the easiest fix of all.


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## Grunt (Nov 11, 2013)

GeekOnTheHill said:


> That plug looks wired wrong to me, even as bootleg grounds go. Richard



Grey hot wire to one side of push button starter switch.
Black wire from switch out to starter. 
White neutral to starter.
Green wire still attached to ground prong which has been cut off.


Appears to be correct.


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## tadawson (Jan 3, 2018)

It's probably plated brass . . . I can't say that I have ever run into steel in electrical connectors, and steel would rapidly rust. Considering the environment, they likely plated the brass to avoid oxidation. 

From what I can see, the old one is just round with the ring on it to hold it in place, right? If so, find someone with a lathe and make one up . . . I can't say that I have seen many parts that would be more trivial to make . . . simply turning down a piece of rod to the correct diameter, and leaving the ring is all it would take . . . maybe drill a hole across the inside end to solder the wire to and done . . .


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

Yep. I got a nephew who is an electrician and I should see him Thanksgiving, I'm gonna see if he knows a way or maybe knows where to find it.

But now...this is on the back burner. Thanks to all for their suggestions, eventually it will get fixed up.

UNFORTUNATELY (barely capable of holding back anger at this moment), our first plowable (barely) snow of the year occurred overnight. I figured I can at least take my 3 snowblowers that "I worked on all in some fashion the entire last two months in my spare time" and see how they actually plow snow.

I'm fairly certain the auger gearcase is fried. I have no clue friggin' how cause the blades spun last week.

Impeller spins when clutch engaged and helicon pinion shaft is too. Shear pins newly installed a month ago and are both intact, end nuts spinning, both blades spinning in unison. I changed the gear case out in October, it WAS darn near empty. My father was funny that way. I filled it with roughly 5 oz just like the manual states with L3 and it doesn't leak.

I will admit, the gear case was very, very noisy - which worried me. And quite frankly, it always was like that.

With the clutch engaged, no auger blade movement. Shut it down, left clutch engaged...blades spin. I've already got the attachment off the tractor. I always wanted to learn how to refurb the gear case, guess now is my chance. 

The "good news" is both other machines performed flawlessly.

VERY VERY LONG SIGH.


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## GeekOnTheHill (Oct 11, 2018)

Grunt said:


> Grey hot wire to one side of push button starter switch.
> Black wire from switch out to starter.
> White neutral to starter.
> Green wire still attached to ground prong which has been cut off.
> ...


Aren't the polarity of the hot and neutral prongs reversed? Assuming that the missing ground prong was in the semicircular recess in the picture, I'm thinking the neutral (white wire) should be on the top prong in the picture (the left in the receptacle with the ground prong down).

Richard


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

GeekOnTheHill said:


> Aren't the polarity of the hot and neutral prongs reversed? Assuming that the missing ground prong was in the semicircular recess in the picture, I'm thinking the neutral (white wire) should be on the top prong in the picture (the left in the receptacle with the ground prong down).
> 
> Richard


I thought this myself. "White right" - knowing the switch is upside down, this means they're backwards.

It's on older switch obviously. Not polarized. The replacement plug I have here, silver screw (white wire) is on the right.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

If your soldering skills are good you could always remove the prongs and cut the green, white and blue wires and solder on a couple inches of extension cord with a new plug. Use some shrink tubing over the joints and drill a hole in the end of the switch box for the cord to pass through and seal up the prong slots with a little silicone. Wouldn't look original but would retain the switch box.

Or go as is and just make sure you don't use it when the machine is wet and or you're standing in water just in case there is a short someplace in the circuit. Just depends on how lucky or unlucky you feel. :grin: / :devil:


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

well, I apparently destroyed the auger gear case this morning, so I ain't feeling very lucky at the moment


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## RIT333 (Feb 6, 2014)

tlshawks said:


> well, I apparently destroyed the auger gear case this morning, so I ain't feeling very lucky at the moment


Care to divulge the details ?


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

RIT333 said:


> Care to divulge the details ?


Some of it is above, but to rehash...

This morning, I blew out our first snow of the year. I own 3 early 70's Ariens blowers currently, and worked on this one extensively beginning early this month. It's my deceased father's 1st snow blower. First time I ever ran a snowblower was this one in 1974. I remember the night, the date...I was 12 and it was fun to run "my dad's new toy" - which he rarely did.

The main things were flange bushings (which were BAD, and one hub was/is still stuck on the driveshaft), oil change and new drain nipple (replacement engine from the 80's didn't come with the drain nipple), new belts, new mounting nut retainers for the attachment, lubed and greased up, new auger gear case oil - along with this starter in this thread installed just yesterday that I picked up locally and inexpensively and been looking for seemingly forever.

This machine ran better and operated better yesterday that it has the last 25 or so years. The one caveat to that is the auger gear box was always noisy, and when I changed the oil, it was black and only had an ounce when it should have had 5. No shavings or metal came out with it, so...no worries, the auger turned like it always has. Noisily, but it turned - I blew snow with it all last winter.

I started it up and began working the snow and it was indeed throwing it for about 5 feet, but after 10 feet I noticed the blower was pushing snow rather than blowing. Shifted into neutral but left the attachment clutch lever in, walked around.

The impeller and impeller shaft were spinning, but the blades weren't. I also noticed, the auger case was vibrating on the blade shaft while this was occurring. To me, that means there was "no contact being made" inside it between impeller shaft teeth and helicon gear teeth. 

The gear box was dead quiet. The "noisy" was gone.

So, shut her down, checked the pins (intact). I could spin the blades easily (shouldn't do that with the attachment clutch engaged), and the nuts holding the blade shaft onto the bucket were turning like they should. I knew the belts were all new, but I check those anyway. I removed the belt cover and started it up...indeed belts were intact and spinning the sheave and again also the impeller/shaft.

So...something has to be broken inside the gear case housing - either the helicon pinion shaft or helicon pinion gear I'd say. 

Yesterday when I tested out the starter I ran it for a couple minutes knowing we were getting snow overnight. The 922003 attachment when I engaged the clutch, I noticed that it seemed to take a second or two for the blades to kick in, but they indeed spun - and as mentioned the bucket was very noisy. All I did this morning was (under power) back the machine out, shifted from R to 2nd gear, flipped the attachment lever, then dropped the clutch. It threw snow for about 5 feet, then stopped.

I thought maybe the attachment lever popped out for this was the first time since I worked on the belts that I ran the machine under a snow load and maybe the idler arm/pulley might need adjusting.

Wasn't the issue either. Helicon gear teeth or the Helicon pinion shaft teeth are toast would be my bet. 


It's frustrating, because yesterday I thought this machine was ready, and the tractor is operating the best since I've had it - it pushes the machine along better than it ever has considering the bushings are brand new, the adjustment nut for the drive wheel is exactly 1.5 turns out like the manual states.

Ariens still sells the gear assembly. $400...soooooooooooo, I know a CL seller that has a 922002/922003 machine for sale right now cheap. The gear case assembly is apparently the exact same, individual and assembly part #'s match. While the bucket 922003 model #'s are the same, it appears a 1971-2 922003 bucket housing differs slightly from a 1974 922003. Different clutch lever (easy to change out), and it appears there's no nut retainer type setup to bolt the attachment to the tractor - and the bottom "hooks" the bucket rests on might be different also from parts diagrams. 

I'm going to take a look at it tomorrow to see if it might still bolt straight up. At the very least I should be able to change out the gear case assemblies assuming I can get both off their buckets.

Frustrating. I did NOT want to have to spend more $ on this machine.


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## gibbs296 (Jun 22, 2014)

Sorry it's going to cost you some time and money to get back up and running, but very cool that it belonged to your dad. It's a tool and a keepsake all at the same time. You're a lucky man!


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## tlshawks (Feb 9, 2018)

gibbs296 said:


> Sorry it's going to cost you some time and money to get back up and running, but very cool that it belonged to your dad. It's a tool and a keepsake all at the same time. You're a lucky man!


Thanks...yeah, it's sort of a "I hope he's looking in from time to time thing" for sure. He loved his toys, he simply wasn't very good at maintaining anything that ran on gasoline. Whereas while I inherited his mechanical skills (he was a maintenance electrician), I liked working on cars and engines more that getting electrocuted daily 

This machine, and my 910962 - my father and brother fought both those machines for the better part of 25 years. I started to work on them in the 00's to keep them running mainly because I hated to see them simply die from lack of attention. 

It was definitely a family dynamic thing driving it. My brother was taking care of my dad, myself my mother. My "dad" contribution was keeping his fleets of snowblowers and lawn mowers running to help my brother's workload out.

The main issues were they were stored in a very damp old garage and never got regular maintenance. My brother used an old 5 gallon metal gas can my dad bought in the 50's that he'd fill full and take years to empty. It was very rusty on the inside as I found out after my dad passed, so all the gas powered pieces for my dad always had carb issues.

Both machines were on their last legs. We tried selling them in the estate sale in early 2015, but nobody wanted them for anything other than scrap/parts (we heard "I'll take them both for free" often), so I took them instead. I knew they both still had a heartbeat, but we really didn't get much snow 2015 to 2017, so I let them sit. In early 2018 though, it snowed seemingly every other day from late January to mid April. That constant used killed both machines.

I looked at a new machine, fainted at the Cost For Quality - so the fixes began. I've got about $325 total combined in them at this point. The 910962 (which was my grandpa's, then my dad's) works awesome now - it ran even less through the years than this machine did.

I inherited 2 snowblowers, 4 pusher lawn mowers, a 1969 Homelite XL chain saw (absolutely pristine), and a 1980 Lowe boat with a 1980 50 horse Mercury outboard (they were last licensed in 1989). I've worked on all myself to get running and refurbed and run like new aside from (now) this 922008.

So, yeah. Lots of sentimentality going on here. And this site has helped keep them alive for sure.


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