# New Toro Power Clear 821's online



## Mountain Man

Looking at the Toro website, and see they have upgraded a significant part of the single stage lineup. The new 821's caught my eye, as they seem to have engines almost 25% larger (252cc) and 3 quart fuel tanks.

Anybody else have any info ? Cant wait to see them on the floor soon.


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## gibbs296

That thing is a beast! We will be seeing a bunch of those in the back of pickup trucks belonging to the parking lot snow removal crews. Steel chute, interesting...or maybe it's still plastic...?


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## Mountain Man

gibbs296 said:


> That thing is a beast! We will be seeing a bunch of those in the back of pickup trucks belonging to the parking lot snow removal crews. Steel chute, interesting...



Only issue could be weight. I know a few solo guys who keep the old 2 stroke machines running since there easier to lift into dump trucks with Sanders.


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## dbert

My Dealer just got theirs in.


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## leonz

I do not think he will not sell many of them leaving the chutes off.

I wish Toro would bring back their 2 stage two cycle snow blowers.


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## Mountain Man

leonz said:


> I do not think he will not sell many of them leaving the chutes off.
> 
> I wish Toro would bring back their 2 stage two cycle snow blowers.


Dont think the 2 strokes will come back. EPA emissions laws. 

My snowmobile is a 4 stroke, cleaner and easier to build, no smoke or smell. I really like it.


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## dbert

leonz said:


> I do not think he will not sell many of them leaving the chutes off.


Can't tell if serious. 
These are so fresh out of the box they are still unassembled.


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## Mountain Man

dbert said:


> Can't tell if serious.
> These are so fresh out of the box they are still unassembled.


Do you know any other specs that are improvements 9ver the 721's?


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## dbert

My local Toro dealer is a family member. I saw this thread and messaged him about them. He sent me the photos as he was just unboxing them. I could have pushed for more info but knew he was busy. Perhaps I'll stop in on Monday.


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## Mountain Man

dbert said:


> My local Toro dealer is a family member. I saw this thread and messaged him about them. He sent me the photos as he was just unboxing them. I could have pushed for more info but knew he was busy. Perhaps I'll stop in on Monday.


What a lucky guy:grin: . Toro only has last years brochure still up. I'll keep checking in. Thanks


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## groomerz

At work we got new 721 rc commercial blowers in. Chutes are plastic.










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## Zavie

Mountain Man said:


> Dont think the 2 strokes will come back. EPA emissions laws.
> 
> My snowmobile is a 4 stroke, cleaner and easier to build, no smoke or smell. I really like it.


That's for sure. Today it's all about plug and play, no mix no mess.


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## RedOctobyr

Very cool! I think an 821 is a great idea. I'd like to get a 721. I think my 221 is really nice, my only "complaint" would be that more power could make it even more useful, with bigger storms. And an 821 would be even better than a 721. 

Are the RC models good? I really like the QuickShoot on mine, it seems like a shame to give that up.


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## Zavie

dbert said:


> My local Toro dealer is a family member. I saw this thread and messaged him about them. He sent me the photos as he was just unboxing them. I could have pushed for more info but knew he was busy. Perhaps I'll stop in on Monday.


I was on Toro's site and it does look like the 721's are new also. What stands out that the handle does appear to be longer. If you stop by could you confirm this? Just wondering if I could order a new handle and convert mine to the new longer handle.


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## groomerz

Quick chute was a great thing without quick chute operators are going to be lazy and blow snow where it should not go. I spring loaded cutting edge appears to be new design with steel and plastic on the 721rc commercial


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## Ddick

*Purchasing an 821RC or QZE*



Mountain Man said:


> Looking at the Toro website, and see they have upgraded a significant part of the single stage lineup. The new 821's caught my eye, as they seem to have engines almost 25% larger (252cc) and 3 quart fuel tanks. Anybody else have any info ? Cant wait to see them on the floor soon.


I had a look at my local dealership and they have 25 in stock. I am looking to buy and am trying to decide between the 821RC and the 821QZE. The RC has extended life paddles, whereas the QZE has electric start and remote chute control operated by a cable and regular paddles. Both blowers weigh about 95lbs, a little heavier due to bigger motor.

My only concern with the QZE would be the cable freezing up. The RC is simpler, and freezeup not an issue. Once the paddles wore out I could replace with extended life paddles.


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## Grunt

Ddick said:


> My only concern with the QZE would be the cable freezing up. The RC is simpler, and freezeup not an issue. Once the paddles wore out I could replace with extended life paddles.


 
I have a 2008 model "421-QZE" Power Clear bought new and have NEVER had the cables freeze. The Quick chute moves easily and eliminates reaching over the handle to change direction at the end of each pass.


The Zip deflector is nice but still requires a reach over to adjust.


The Electric start is also nice but I think I have used it once, when I forgot to turn the ignition on and thought the engine was just being difficult to start. :banghead:

I use the standard paddles and normally replace them every two or three seasons, along with the scraper bar.


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## RedOctobyr

The only part about Quick Shoot that surprised me a bit is that it's difficult to re-aim while blowing a bunch of snow. With more snow going through the chute, the chute wants to tilt, and (mine, at least) kinda binds up. I could probably force it to re-aim, but I don't want to stress the mechanism needlessly. 

I haven't had issues with the cable freezing, in my limited usage this past winter. But this year I'll probably be storing it out in the shed, vs the garage, so any water may be more likely to freeze. There are probably options to help keep the top of the cable sealed, if it was a problem. Either some sort of rubber cap, or maybe wrapping the end of the cable with Teflon tape, something like that. 

I do appreciate the simplicity of the RC-style control. But I really like the convenience of Quick Shoot. My 2-stroke is very easy to pull-start. Thus far, I don't mind not having electric start. 

I'm glad they made an 821, I think the extra power could really help keep it a mechanically-simple machine (more than the SnowMaster), but allow it to handle bigger storms. Meaning you could probably manage larger storms, while still clearing faster & easier than a 2-stage.


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## Mountain Man

Ddick said:


> I had a look at my local dealership and they have 25 in stock. I am looking to buy and am trying to decide between the 821RC and the 821QZE. The RC has extended life paddles, whereas the QZE has electric start and remote chute control operated by a cable and regular paddles. Both blowers weigh about 95lbs, a little heavier due to bigger motor.
> 
> My only concern with the QZE would be the cable freezing up. The RC is simpler, and freezeup not an issue. Once the paddles wore out I could replace with extended life paddles.


Wow, sounds like a big dealer. Think my dealers will be putting out winter stock now that we've hit Labor day.


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## superbuick

Zavie said:


> That's for sure. Today it's all about plug and play, no mix no mess.


Pouring a little bottle of oil into a container of gas is NEVER messier than changing oil on a 4 stroke engine. That is a fallacy. Its about "low hanging fruit" emissions. The two strokes are lighter and better in my opinion.

The same people who complain about "mixing gas and oil" never seem to have any problem getting the cream and sugar into their coffee just right...


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## superbuick

RedOctobyr said:


> Very cool! I think an 821 is a great idea. I'd like to get a 721. I think my 221 is really nice, my only "complaint" would be that more power could make it even more useful, with bigger storms. And an 821 would be even better than a 721.
> 
> Are the RC models good? I really like the QuickShoot on mine, it seems like a shame to give that up.


Bend the metal tab that the governor spring attaches to a tiny bit (maybe about an 1/8 inch) to make the spring "tighter". Adds a few RPM, some added HP, no effect on engine life, and takes about 1 min to accomplish


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## RedOctobyr

Yup, I've already set the governor at the top of the RPM spec. I could go a bit over, but I don't know how well these R-Tek engines handle excess speed. 

Unfortunately, raising the RPM still doesn't provide more lower-end torque, to resist bogging down in deeper snow. That's where a 721 or 821 sounds nice.


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## gibbs296

I have had the QuickShoot freeze up on my 621. It wasn't the cable but more like snow melting and freezing in the rotating section. A couple of thumps with a gloved hand seems to work. A heated garage would be much better..


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## superbuick

RedOctobyr said:


> Yup, I've already set the governor at the top of the RPM spec. I could go a bit over, but I don't know how well these R-Tek engines handle excess speed.
> 
> Unfortunately, raising the RPM still doesn't provide more lower-end torque, to resist bogging down in deeper snow. That's where a 721 or 821 sounds nice.



They can handle increased RPM with ease. The R-Tek on my 2 stage blower runs at around 4200rpms. No issues, had it for almost 12 years now. 

Also - the low-end torque thing - people get these things confused with like 500cc 4 stroke dirtbikes as compared to 125cc 2 stroke dirt bikes. The 2 cycle is hitting on every revolution - perfect for a single stage. Setting the governor higher means it is also going to stay higher longer when you get to that deeper snow - its not just higher RPM, but resistance to slowing down (more spring tension trying to keep the throttle open). You will be pleased, I promise.

For the record I'm not anti 4-stroke, nor being accusatory at all - there's just so many folks who go "oh yeah no torque" or "oh yeah messy!" but really don't have anything other than forum hearsay or old wives tales to back it up. Ive built, raced, and used two strokes for 20+ years in tons of applications. They are fantastic, if a bit noisy and smoky in outdoor equipment. Direct injection two strokes are a completely different animal in terms of smoke and noise. The fact of the matter is two strokes in our snowblowers are gone because of the overzealous EPA and thats it, and only it.


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## Zavie

superbuick said:


> Pouring a little bottle of oil into a container of gas is NEVER messier than changing oil on a 4 stroke engine. That is a fallacy. Its about "low hanging fruit" emissions. The two strokes are lighter and better in my opinion.
> 
> The same people who complain about "mixing gas and oil" never seem to have any problem getting the cream and sugar into their coffee just right...


No kidding, but for the mass markets, especially now with higher CC units available 2 stroke is gone in blowers forever.


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## mobiledynamics

How Will this higher CC perform with *new technology or not paddle/chute*

I have owned two HS621. Still got one.....full all out *enthusiast refurbishing*. One's even got a new complete auger shaft just cause I was seeking perfection. 

Was not crazed with the unit in the wet snow I get. Constant clogs....often chasing the shoot with a short wooden stick, rins e and repeat.


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## Snowbelt_subie

Looks cool still the older ccr snowblowers are one the best single stages ever made. 

I have ran them side by side with newer 621 and 721 I dont think they have the power of a 3650 2 stroke.

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## RedOctobyr

That's very interesting, and a comparison I haven't gotten to make. My assumption has been that a 721 would be more powerful than my 221 (2-stroke R-Tek 21"). 

But if that's not true, that's good to know. I'd stop keeping an eye out for a deal on a 721. I just kinda want the most powerful SS I can reasonably get my hands on, to let it manage bigger storms.


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## Snowbelt_subie

RedOctobyr said:


> That's very interesting, and a comparison I haven't gotten to make. My assumption has been that a 721 would be more powerful than my 221 (2-stroke R-Tek 21").
> 
> But if that's not true, that's good to know. I'd stop keeping an eye out for a deal on a 721. I just kinda want the most powerful SS I can reasonably get my hands on, to let it manage bigger storms.


As long as the engine size is comparable the 2 stroke will always make more torque than a 4 stroke. It fires twice as much as the 4 stroke. More bangs =more power lol

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## melson

I just bought the Toro 821. I haven't used it yet so about all I can say so far is that the 7 hp Loncin G250 engine started first pull and runs smoothly. It's also surprisingly loud! The exhaust has a bark, or a 'bite', to it that makes it seem louder than my 11.5 hp Ariens.
Judging from 20 years experience using a John Deere TRS21 (two cycle engine rated 5.5 hp), I anticipate the 821 will be up to the challenge for the majority of snow storms we get here in Massachusetts.


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## superbuick

RedOctobyr said:


> That's very interesting, and a comparison I haven't gotten to make. My assumption has been that a 721 would be more powerful than my 221 (2-stroke R-Tek 21").
> 
> But if that's not true, that's good to know. I'd stop keeping an eye out for a deal on a 721. I just kinda want the most powerful SS I can reasonably get my hands on, to let it manage bigger storms.



There's definitely not a 4 stroke I'm aware of in the single stage class that has the power output of the R*Tek. That motor and its lawnboy counterpart (the duraforce) are legendary for the heavy duty power they put out. Some claim its the most powerful 21 push mower engine ever offered, and I don't disagree.

Give that thing a few more revs!


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## Slinger

Toro 821 QZE weighs 98 lbs, according to Toro website.

Typically 4 strokes deliver more torque when compared to an engine of the same bore&stroke at lower RPMs. Exhaust modifications (raising or lowering the exhaust port) on the 2 stroke produce large changes in torque at various RPM, and can compete with 4 stroke engines but typically have a narrow torque/power band. 4 strokes simply out torque over a broader RPM range because exhaust is fully pushed out after every power stroke.


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## jafacakes

Just picked up an 821QZE - replacing a 14 year old Honda HS520. Never had a Toro before, I don't see a fuel shut off like I had on the Honda. Is there one on there I'm not seeing? I used to like shutting off the fuel when I was finishing up using it to burn off the gas in the carb. Am I missing something? 

Cheers.


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## steeve725

jafacakes said:


> Just picked up an 821QZE - replacing a 14 year old Honda HS520. Never had a Toro before, I don't see a fuel shut off like I had on the Honda. Is there one on there I'm not seeing? I used to like shutting off the fuel when I was finishing up using it to burn off the gas in the carb. Am I missing something?
> 
> Cheers.



I’ve had my QZE 821 for a few weeks now & 3 snow storms. 

No fuel shutoff, they didn’t have one on the QZE 721 I sold to get the 821.

If it’s a huge deal there very inexpensive to purchase an aftermarket one.

Here’s one example

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076JD7K1Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_aHuWDb4QB7Z8Q

I simply monitor my fuel towards the end of the snow season and simply run it out of fuel. If I end up with too much fuel left, I simply siphon into my fuel can.

Here’s the siphon I have
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XKHP8Q4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_eJuWDb0050A5Y


All the years I’ve had Toro’s never had a fuel related problem. But I also run ethanol free fuel in my power equipment.


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## LouC

superbuick said:


> Pouring a little bottle of oil into a container of gas is NEVER messier than changing oil on a 4 stroke engine. That is a fallacy. Its about "low hanging fruit" emissions. The two strokes are lighter and better in my opinion.
> 
> The same people who complain about "mixing gas and oil" never seem to have any problem getting the cream and sugar into their coffee just right...


Agreed on liking 2 strokes better. I have the Toro/Suzuki 3000 GTS, now for 21 years, 3 Echo 2 stroke machines and one Husky chainsaw. All run well the Zuke smokes the most of all of them, the Echos hardly smoke at all, the Husky is in between. 

If you have 2 strokes and don't want to mix you can always buy Trufuel but it is expensive, vs mixing your own. I use the Echo 2 stroke oil in all but the Toro/Zuke, in that I use TCW-III because that is what Toro recommended for years in their 2 strokes.


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## LouC

I’d like to hear more about this 821. While I love the simple 2 stroke machine that my 3000 GTS is, more power would be nice. However, the 3000 only weighs 72 or so lbs, 98 lbs is a lot for a single.


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## jafacakes

Well I finally had a chance to use the 821 this week. Twice.

Both times around 3-5" of snow - heavy packing type snow but not super wet stuff.

I'm coming from a Honda HS520 I've had for 10+ years. This is my first Toro. Picked it up from a local dealer that assembled, oil/fuel.

First Impressions - Decent, not great, not bad, but decent. I guess I was expecting a little more 'umph' when doing the EOD. I only had a 2' windrow after the plow came around and I was able to get through it without bogging down but it didn't seem to be any more powerful than my old HS520. It handled it alright but I was kind of expecting more based on the CC's of this thing. No real complaints I was just was hoping for a little more 'umph'.

Pro's: Easy 1 pull starts, QZE quick shoot turning and angling are great, not overly loud. Folding handle is nice.

Con's: No fuel shut off valve - Pretty used to using that on the HS520 to run the fuel out when finishing up the last few minutes on the driveway. I'll probably add one later - after the warranty is up. I am a little concerned about the angle deflector on the shut - it's plastic and I'm sceptical it'll hold up over time but they seem to have had this set up on older Single Stage Toro's for awhile so I guess it's 'tried and true'.

Happy with the purchase so far.

Oh and no issues with the scraper bar that a few of you seem to have had, it caught once or twice on sidewalk expansion breaks but I had that with my old HS520 as well.

Looking forward to more snow over the season.


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## Mountain Man

Soooooo, today we had second snowfall of season, about 3" of wet snow. My ariens path pro was choking on the slop, kept clogging every 10 feet. I was frustrated, then it chewed the belt when it partially came off the augers pulley. Was smoking real good. So I have a new belt on it for now.




But, I went to my local Toro dealer, bent on buying a new machine. The only single stages left are 518's. WTH. Was looking for a 721 or 821 RC. The owner just called me back, and says won't be any more from Toro this season. They are going into spring mower work. 

Guess my only options are another model, or a larger dealer with inventory. Can't believe you cant buy a snowblower in December anymore.


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## Yetiman

I have a Toro 38583 that I bought in 2008. It has an R Tek 141cc two stroke (not sure if it is 6.5 or 7hp. It was the top of the line at the time). This blower has been well maintained, starts on the first or second pull, and had new paddles and scraper bar installed last summer 

Having multiple properties I picked up an 821 QZE a few weeks ago. Sunday we got 11 inches of moderately heavy snow which was the first real test I have been able to give it. my girlfriend and I used both the 821 and the older blower switching off between them from time to time.

The 821 QZE has a LOT of 'grunt' to it. in the heaviest and moderate sections we both felt it was decidedly more powerful and made faster work of the job than the two stroke. 

On other snowfalls between 4 and 8 inches (some of which were very wet snow) they seemed very equal with no clear winner, but in the deep heavy snow Sunday, the 821 QZE worked better.

I will say that the handles and 'chassis' on the 821 are more flexible than the older unit. When torquing it a little bit to get it up a step in a walkway you can see the red hood flexing a bit which the two stroke doesn't do. I see that there are plastic brackets securing the handles which seem to flex and I may need to keep my eye on those and buy spares.

The three quart gas tank on the 821 lasts seemingly forever !


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## RedOctobyr

Nice! I also have a 221QR (don't know the model # offhand), with the RTek 2-stroke. I've been really happy with it so far (bought it 2 seasons ago). It's light, easy to use (not tiring), and has performed well in up to about 10" so far. I wanted to use it with today's storm, but 18" seemed like too much (and was well above the top of the intake), so I used the 2-stage

My only wishlist item would be more power, so I could use it in bigger/heavier storms. It's great to hear that the 821 does better with that! The flexing frame is not ideal, but hopefully that won't be a problem.


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## Yetiman

As to the plastic brackets I noted, looking at this video posted on another thread I see that those brackets just hold the red hood to the handles and are not really structural, so less of a concern.


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