# Siezed 5hp 22" with snow on the way



## 1215 (Mar 2, 2015)

A family member recently gave us a 22" 5.0 (Tecumseh) Craftsman snowblower. It came to us in excellent (visual) but unknown mechanical condition. I had changed the oil in it a few times but ran out of 30wt and never got around to filling it up. As per my usual, I taped the key to the top of the oil cap and wrote in giant caps marker "NO OIL". 

My kid started the snow machine this afternoon to make sure it was working properly before the upcoming snow storm, etc. I'm on my way home (was travelling for work) and all that I know is that he can't pull the crank and that the electric starter does not work. 

I've had a bunch of race cars over the years and I've blown up more motors than I can remember. Are these things easy to (quickly) tear down and rebuild or am I talking about a multi-day project more than a few hours? 

Is this something that I can hone/clena up the bore lightly with an emery cloth and get it through the storm or am I talking rod & crank bearings more than rings (or all of the above)? 

Thanks.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

How did it last come to a stop ?

If your Son had it running, while waiting for the SnowStorm, and it seized up . . . . I'd reckon that he wiped part of the aluminium Piston Rod onto the Crank Shaft.

You'll only know after you take it apart.


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## 1215 (Mar 2, 2015)

No idea. He said he had it running and it stopped running. There is gas in it and there was no oil. Wondering if this is going to be a ring issue or rod issue or both. Also how long to tear these things apart? (I have a full shop)
Thx for reply.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

jmo, but if its single shaft ( no pto) engine, a harbor freight predator for $99 could be installed in less than an hour usually. and those do come with no oil also.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

take a breaker bar and pull off the recoil, give it a good tug and you might break it free. if you do break it free, add some 5w30 and hope it doesnt chuck the rod


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

You're not going to know what's damaged until you open the engine and see. Probably pull the head off first, and see if cylinder bore is toast. Probably need a breaker bar to turn it because the law of Murphy says the piston will be at the top. If the bore is toast, then it's not a 2 hour rebuild. If the cylinder is good, you will need to round up all the other bits like rings, connecting rod, probably bearings/bushings and seals. If all the parts are available from stock, maybe your're in business. 

Best check if it will take a predator engine as that will probably cost less than all the bits and pieces plus the time to rebuild.


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## Motor City (Jan 6, 2014)

Post the model number. A Predator swap would probably be the easyiest.


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## 1215 (Mar 2, 2015)

It's a 247.88700
It is definitely seized. I'll pull the head tomorrow as well as the manual starter and see what I can sort out with a breaker bar. Will a $99 HF motor be a direct fit?
Thanks.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

Looks like you left off a digit on the model, is it 247.887000 or 247.887001? If so, it looks to have a single shaft motor on it (which is good for a motor transplant). It's likely it will fit but you'll likely have a little work to do, depending on some things. 

If the bolt pattern on the base and the base thickness is the same, if it doesn't interfere with the chute controls and the length and height of the main crankshaft are the same between the old motor and a Preditor then it would be a direct bolt in. If any of that differs then you'd have some modifications to do. How much depends on how much and many things differ. Best guess, longer mounting bolts and having to modify something on the auger controls at a minimum.

If rebuilding isn't an option, then another might be find a scrap/parts machine with a good engine on it and swap it out.

Good luck

Paul


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Yeah , that's pretty much where your at. Those are not hard to come by used fairly cheap, but pull it apart and see what you have first.


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## Kiss4aFrog (Nov 3, 2013)

They usually aren't a direct fit but don't take a lot to make work.
You have to remember it's a $99 engine so no electric start and you'll need a kit to add a stator to run a headlight if that's your desire.

The big thing is the shaft diameter trying to us the original pulley off the engine. There are adapters available on ebay and others and then the belt length. Plenty of info in "Re-Powering" as it's the most common engine replacement done and there are lots of them out there.


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## HCBPH (Mar 8, 2011)

One thing I've heard to try is Marvel Mystery Oil on a seized engine. I know of more than one person that's used it on a seized car engine and gotten it to loosen. Pour a bunch into the cylinder and let it sit a week or two. Worst case, you wasted the cost of a bottle of it. Best case it loosens it up enough to turn if it's only the rings that are stuck. Not sure if it's the crank that's seized.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

In a no oil condition the rings are usually ok - it's the rod welding itself to the crank more often than not. You will find a bent or broken rod and hopefully no other cylinder damage.... if the crank is gunked up and embedded with aluminum from the rod you may be able to salvage the crank by soaking in it muratic acid and see if it will eat the aluminum away. Then get a new rod and put it all back together.......


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## 1215 (Mar 2, 2015)

Thank you all for the replies. This is a lot of help. I don't really want to re-power the snowblower. Because of family drama and how we got this thing (from a family member), I'd rather spend 2-3x the money rebuilding the motor than re-powering it. That way it'll be original motor and we can smile, nod, say "yep, thanks, runs/works great, etc."

The snow storm I was in a panic about turned out to be a non-event. Ground temps were so warm that we got 4-6" but the roads melted it all. Work (the thing I'm forced to do to pay the bills) has been crazy so I have just tonight had the opportunity to look at it. 

I did exactly what 43128 recommended here in post #5, took off the recoil and didn't even use a breaker bar, just a standard 3/8" Craftsman ratchet with 19mm socket got it moving. 

More questions... and some problems. #1, plug was BLACK and sooty. Not oily, not glazed/heat affected, black and sooty. 

#2, I sprayed some PB Blaster down the spark plug hole and let it sit for 15-20 before I tried cranking on it. PB Blaster may not have been best choice but I assumed I would be tearing the thing apart anyway. So the PB Blaster is now leaking out of somewhere --if I had to guess I'd say maybe base of exhaust or maybe crank seal behind the recoil? 

Does this mean I'll be tearing it apart now?

EDIT: Put plug back in & it fired right up. PB Blaster is still leaking down from somewhere but can't see where. Should I take things apart to investigate or just leave it alone and store it away for the summer?


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

1215 said:


> Thank you all for the replies. This is a lot of help. I don't really want to re-power the snowblower. Because of family drama and how we got this thing (from a family member), I'd rather spend 2-3x the money rebuilding the motor than re-powering it. That way it'll be original motor and we can smile, nod, say "yep, thanks, runs/works great, etc."
> 
> The snow storm I was in a panic about turned out to be a non-event. Ground temps were so warm that we got 4-6" but the roads melted it all. Work (the thing I'm forced to do to pay the bills) has been crazy so I have just tonight had the opportunity to look at it.
> 
> ...



i would just leave it alone. are there any weird knocking noises coming from the engine?


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## 1215 (Mar 2, 2015)

43128 said:


> i would just leave it alone. are there any weird knocking noises coming from the engine?


It was later last night when I started it so I didn't let it run for very long. I'll run it today and let it get up to temp and see/listen. When it broke free it was a little difficult to spin initially even with the plug out but after a few manual/hand rotations it got easier and much more smooth. Once it was spinning freely by hand I put the recoil (manual pull start) back on and slowly cranked it a few times (with plug removed). After that I spun the motor so piston was at BDC (bottom dead center) and filled the cylinder from the spark plug hole twice with oil and let it drain down through the rings. After that I plugged it in and let the electric starter spin it a bit. It wasn't until it was really oiled up and spinning freely that I fired it up. Didn't sound that bad but as I said, was only running briefly. 

I was worried about the leaking PB Blaster so after I shut the engine off for the night I over filled the oil to see what happens and no leaking anything this AM. That made me curious so I pulled up the exploded engine diagram. I don't know what you call it... this is a flathead or side-valve (non-OHV) motor so is it possible that the exhaust valve was open and there's just a small gasket leak at the muffler? Leak seemed to be coming from that general area. Muffler is also all shrouded and covered, for all I know there might be a condensation drain at the bottom of it and no gasket leak at all. 

That's a best-case diagnosis of this leak so of course that's what I want it to be... It's also logical given the motor/valves. Could I be correct? 

Also in looking at the exploded diagrams it seems that there aren't any rod bearings (small or big-end)?? As Vermont007 & bad69cat both mentioned, is this really just an aluminum rod on steel crank & piston wrist pin with no bearings? It was definitely seized. Assuming everything else is correct (exhaust valve was open and no major knocks/noises) do I need to worry about metal transferring onto the crank or just leave it and run the thing?

Thanks for the input from everyone. Keeping my fingers crossed that I got lucky.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Well - I think your pretty much correct. I don't think you can hurt it much more than it is, so I say just run it if it doesn't sound like somebody wants out. The crank is most likely got some aluminum stuck to it, but if it doesn't have to big of a gap and it has a decent oil film in there it should hold up for awhile. Either way you would have to tear it down. I'd wait until it gives you more trouble or indications of things going south......what the heck - you not out much at this point.


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## Vermont007 (Mar 29, 2015)

bad69cat said:



> ". . . what the heck - you're not out much at this point . . ."


And you can take your time looking into a new Piston Rod, and maybe a set of Rings over the Summer, without being in a rush.


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## 43128 (Feb 14, 2014)

Ive had various success with seized engine but what I told you try usually works. Just be aware that some engines will lock up and run for years after being freed up, but some will run for 5 minutes and chuck the rod with no warning. Once I had a little wonder come in with a locked up engine, and I had running like new for 10 minutes after adding oil. I had it idling and went to rev it and it left an "inspection port" right in the side of the block. Just a warning


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## 404 (Feb 1, 2015)

bad69cat said:


> if the crank is gunked up and embedded with aluminum from the rod you may be able to salvage the crank by soaking in it muratic acid and see if it will eat the aluminum away. Then get a new rod and put it all back together.


Lye will attack the aluminum and have no effect on the steel at all.


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## bad69cat (Nov 30, 2015)

Yeah - I hear you. Just that if the steel got overheated there is no guarantee that the journal is good. I think it's worth a shot since they want quite a bit for a new crank......


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