# Do we have to stop shopping at Harbor Freight and other Chinese product-laden stores?



## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

I believe 99% of the products Harbor Freight sells are from China and,

Due to their recent behavior it is clear China is not our ally and all we are doing is building their economy (and military!) at the expense of ours.

I think we have reached the point of "enough is enough" now

Who here agrees?


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## Jatoxico (Jan 6, 2018)

Agreed but I doubt most people will be willing to do it. Manufacturers want max profit and people want cheap prices.

In my county everyone complained about the dangers of speeding and all the crazy drivers. Then they put in red light cameras and what do you think they complained about? Everyone wants it both ways.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Careful political discussions can get you in trouble on here.


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## tdipaul (Jul 11, 2015)

Not looking for trouble.
If we dont take a stand soon they will own us.
Who wants that???


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Eh... just take it easy. Also... please remember I don't make the rules. 

As far as the Chinesium I avoid it as much as possible, have for a long time. I'd much rather spend a few extra bucks to support my (extended) neighbors. As I live in Japan for me that means first choice is made here, close second made in the USA.

Bottom line as I see it is that our first responsibility should be to those around us... a profitable and healthy society benefits everyone in it.


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)

What individuals do is fine, but if we were to sanction China like Russia, think carefully what effect that would have on the US. Apple would shut down production of everything except comparatively few computers - and I'd bet that factory of theirs depends on screws and parts from China. Many many other companies are in the same boat. Steel, EV batteries, and other raw materials all come from the Far East in great quantities.

An article I read said that Putin tried to become independent of the world to become sanction proof. But he shot himself in the foot. What he should have done was increase interdependence so the rest of the world cutting off trade w/ Russia would hurt the other countries as much as it hurt him. This is where China is - we are so heavily dependent on them that the American public would become very very upset if we sanctioned them - or boycotted them in a meaningful way.

A side note. A few days ago I wrote Coca Cola and said since they were continuing to sell their products in Russia I was going to stop drinking Coke. I also added that I doubted if that would ruin their bottom line, but if enough folks feel the way I do, they would hear about it soon. Today I got an email from Coke saying they halted sales in Russia on March 8. That was probably due to group pressure.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Now? Should have started in the early 70s. But the deals are made. We are


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## Wilson (Nov 20, 2020)

tdipaul said:


> Not looking for trouble.
> If we dont take a stand soon they will own us.
> Who wants that???



It's already too late. China has owned you for years now.


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

tdipaul said:


> I believe 99% of the products Harbor Freight sells are from China


Other than lumber, take a look at Lowes and HD


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

The problem is internal.

Start looking at the investors and CEO's that sold their soul and exploited other poorer countries the last 20 years. 

Who's saying let's bring those jobs and factories back to the US?

Who's saying that they'll buy those US made products even though it costs 200% more?

When was the last time CEO's plan for the long term, instead of from quarter to quarter?

When was the last time a politician plan for the longer term, instead of from one election to another?

Stop blaming other countries for our sh*tty shortsightedness.

We love cheap sh*t and we love our dividends and stocks.

The problem is internal.


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

aa335 said:


> When was the last time CEO's plan for the long term, instead of from quarter to quarter?


_BRAVO!_​


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

If you boycotted products based on a companies or countries integrity you would not be able to buy ANYTHING.

You have to pick your battles.

I am boycotting Corona beer and told them so because they use snoop dog as a spokesperson.

His lyrics tell people to use their guns to kill cops.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

!


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## Great white (Feb 4, 2021)

orangputeh said:


> If you boycotted products based on a companies or countries integrity you would not be able to buy ANYTHING.
> 
> You have to pick your battles.
> 
> ...


I didn’t know that. I never listened to snoop dog or other hype. I like articulate music that puts me in a better place. All genres.


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## deezlfan (Nov 8, 2017)

How you going to rein in any foreign country when our Prez and his family are bought and paid for in Russian, Ukrainian and Chinese bribery dollars? And since that money may be drying up, he wants to slide in to bed with Iran & Venezuela to save his butt in the mid term.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

tdipaul said:


> Not looking for trouble.
> If we dont take a stand soon they will own us.
> Who wants that???


they already do


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## Darryl G (Feb 5, 2017)

I'd don't need a reason not to buy at Harbor Freight other than that most of what they sell is crap. Crap is crap regardless of where it's made. I've got enough crap to deal with already...


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## zhy987 (12 mo ago)

aa335 said:


> The problem is internal.
> 
> Start looking at the investors and CEO's that sold their soul and exploited other poorer countries the last 20 years.
> 
> ...


Many CEOs compensation is in the form of deferred stock. Ie. They’ll collect based on what the stock is doing 5 years from now.


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## model a lover (10 mo ago)

Hollowpoint said:


> Other than lumber, take a look at Lowes and HD


i'm 100% with you, i trust made here the usa and canada and japan for the quality not price, yes i have worked for japanese companies both toyota of america and hino , yet what today isn't or has a bunch of parts that are made in china? i just purchased a new dewalt 12 inch bi-angle miter saw.a sticker with the numbers reads made in twain.not the usa , my loved makita tools have made in china labels on sections and some tools ,Milwaukie a USA brand now owned by Techtronic Industries, yes it's hong cong almost china yet made from made in china parts . todays quality is almost china they don't last like the old 

what today is not made in or made of made or cast in china aparts? stanley tools is closing this year on finishing the buying of MTD outdoor products, how much of that will also move to china that hasn't already? where is kawasaki casting motor parts? that i can't find a answer not in the usa for sure as they only assemble motors here 

lumber wise.buddies who live in BC canada complain of how the lumber and pulp mills were purchased by china based companies who than either shut down the mills or closed lines down .low production high prices,like the 6 sheets of 1/2 inch 13mm CDX i needed that cost me $62.96 each used to run 12.00 and a stud 3 .00 dollar stud grade 2x4 now costs $9.62 both at a local lowes ouch 

can we boycott china as as that thread is about? i don't see anyway around the china issue as all the world allowed it to happen.


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Lumber prices has nothing to do with Russia or China, it's simply chain problems, delivery, supposedly because enough people do not want to work because of hand out money from the Government politicians buying votes.

Unfortunately our Military and cars can't move without chips from China. We need to move away from China with certain components to protect ourselves. I saw a TV clip of President Trump speaking in 2018 warning Europe and especially Germany becoming dependent on Russian oil. He spoke of problems with Russia, Russia can't be trusted, they could turn off the oil at anytime.


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

model a lover said:


> lumber wise.buddies who live in BC canada complain of how the lumber and pulp mills were purchased by china based companies


Love Canadian made goods here in USA, unsure of ownership on lumber industry there. Neighbor had to replace roof on an 8-year-old home due to poor installation (no comment) Sheets of ply were 141.00 USD ea.
Pork industry here in USA is predominately owned by China. 
Used to laugh at the 2 Harley Davidson motorcycles owned as dealers would have all the chrome goodies hanging from the walls......all made in.... you guessed it. Yamaha V-4 I owned had parts on the dealer display wall all made in USA....go figure that one.


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## Oneacer (Jan 3, 2011)

I won't even go down this rabbit hole with my thoughts, as it would be construed as being more political than this thread could stand, I'll leave it at that.


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

I use Harbor Fright as a go to for a once and done job as most/all of their stuff is throw away. If I need to invest in a good tap and die set for example, McMaster Carr


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## WrenchIt (Dec 6, 2020)




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## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

I've been making an effort to avoid Chinese products over the past few years and it has gone better than I thought. For example when I upgraded my tools I chose DeWalt over Milwaukee because Milwaukee is now a Chinese company who makes nearly everything in China while DeWalt is an American company that still makes a lot of products in the US and Mexico. Only two of my DeWalt tools are made in China, not even the batteries or chargers are which was nice to see. I bought a Sony TV that was made in Mexico. If I buy a new blower it will probably be an Ariens because I'd rather have an engine made by an American company (LCT) than a Chinese one (Loncin), even if they are both made in China. I won't buy EGO so long as there are alternatives. I'll always buy Taiwan over China as well. I recently discovered a lot of dog bowls are made in India for some reason. 

You may be surprised what all you can still buy that's not made in China. It just takes a little bit of effort to look. It can't be completely avoided of course and I realize a lot of parts and raw materials may still be sourced from China, but every bit helps.


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## GMH (Dec 31, 2013)

There needs to be a well publicized website that lists companies and products that are made in North America. Maybe there already is? Folks could check it and buy locally if possible. The more profitable local companies are the more other companies are likely to set up shop here. That said, it is difficult to complete with companies that have a near slave-labor force.


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## micah68kj (Oct 8, 2011)

Wilson said:


> It's already too late. China has owned you for years now.


Not yet but heading that way.


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## ChrisJ (Nov 27, 2014)

bisonp said:


> I've been making an effort to avoid Chinese products over the past few years and it has gone better than I thought. For example when I upgraded my tools I chose DeWalt over Milwaukee because Milwaukee is now a Chinese company who makes nearly everything in China while DeWalt is an American company that still makes a lot of products in the US and Mexico. Only two of my DeWalt tools are made in China, not even the batteries or chargers are which was nice to see. I bought a Sony TV that was made in Mexico. If I buy a new blower it will probably be an Ariens because I'd rather have an engine made by an American company (LCT) than a Chinese one (Loncin), even if they are both made in China. I won't buy EGO so long as there are alternatives. I'll always buy Taiwan over China as well. I recently discovered a lot of dog bowls are made in India for some reason.
> 
> You may be surprised what all you can still buy that's not made in China. It just takes a little bit of effort to look. It can't be completely avoided of course and I realize a lot of parts and raw materials may still be sourced from China, but every bit helps.



Define "made in".
For example, if you buy a TV that was assembled in Mexico using a display, plastic housing and circuit boards that were made in China using Chinese parts how is that any better? I'm not saying that's the case with the Sony tv, but I'd be surprised if the display and boards were made in Mexico. Really surprised if any components on the PCBs were.

The Dewalt drills. What exactly is made in the U.S. and Mexico? Who in the U.S. is making lithium ion cells for small items like this?

I'm asking these questions because what I found was required to put a "Made in USA" label wasn't what I expected 10 years ago or so.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Lumber prices has nothing to do with Russia or China, it's simply chain problems, delivery, supposedly because enough people do not want to work because of hand out money from the Government politicians buying votes.
> 
> Unfortunately our Military and cars can't move without chips from China. We need to move away from China with certain components to protect ourselves. I saw a TV clip of President Trump speaking in 2018 warning Europe and especially Germany becoming dependent on Russian oil. He spoke of problems with Russia, Russia can't be trusted, they could turn off the oil at anytime.


The US will never learn their lesson. I remember the gas lines in the 70's when the Middle East put the squeeze on us. That was 40 years ago.

never learn.


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## TooTall999 (Nov 19, 2015)

tdipaul said:


> I believe 99% of the products Harbor Freight sells are from China and,
> 
> Due to their recent behavior it is clear China is not our ally and all we are doing is building their economy (and military!) at the expense of ours.
> 
> ...


So do you think we should boycott every snowblower brand that uses engines produced in China? Good luck finding one, or an engine to repower an old snowblower.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I'm with Georgie Carlin

Rooting for WW3


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## bisonp (Mar 23, 2018)

ChrisJ said:


> Define "made in".
> For example, if you buy a TV that was assembled in Mexico using a display, plastic housing and circuit boards that were made in China using Chinese parts how is that any better? I'm not saying that's the case with the Sony tv, but I'd be surprised if the display and boards were made in Mexico. Really surprised if any components on the PCBs were.
> 
> The Dewalt drills. What exactly is made in the U.S. and Mexico? Who in the U.S. is making lithium ion cells for small items like this?
> ...


I know my TV wasn't 100% made in Mexico. For example I believe the LCD panel was made in Korea or Japan, I forget which. Sony is a Japanese company. It was assembled in Mexico. Some parts may come from China, sure. But I'll take that over TCL where everything is Chinese.

My DeWalt batteries and chargers are made in Mexico and Malaysia, with the battery cells themselves coming from Korea I believe. DeWalt assembles global parts in American plants but many parts are actually made in America and Mexico, more than I realized. 7 US plants, 14,000 US employees, and over 60 million products made and/or assembled each year in the US. That's significant any way you look at it and it does matter.


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

Here is my view on this, I always like to buy USA made, but in the last few years I have had some bad USA made products for my cars and the companies did not stand behind them. Now I buy from who ever. A couple of years ago I bought a USA fuel pump for my Son's Suburban, it failed after 6 months, they did give me a new one but I was very leery about using another one. I then purchased a super cheap one from Parts Geek, it's now going on 3 years with the cheap pump. Same goes for tools, I have had good and bad from both USA and China made. I now but a lot of hand tools from HF as for me the quality is pretty good. Sure a Snap On may be higher quality but for the home guy they cannot be beat. Same goes for snow blowers, my Ariens Compact 24 is a great blower but so is the Yardmax 24 I picked up also and it's made in China, both blow snow well and neither of them have given me any sort of trouble.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Eh... just take it easy. Also... please remember I don't make the rules.
> 
> As far as the Chinesium I avoid it as much as possible, have for a long time. I'd much rather spend a few extra bucks to support my (extended) neighbors. As I live in Japan for me that means first choice is made here, close second made in the USA.
> 
> Bottom line as I see it is that our first responsibility should be to those around us... a profitable and healthy society.


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## Elfiero (Apr 9, 2019)

Most Floks under 40(still working) don't seem to care about where it's made or even what it cost's. Granted they will someday, but I hope to be dead by then and they can put my ashes in a Chinese made urn and flush me down a Chinese made toilet and into a sewer system built from Chinese made pipe and fittings I'm dead- who cares?


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## The Q (Dec 19, 2016)

Global economy. Blame the politicians and the CEO`s.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

We are a throw away society and like cheap junk. Chinese goods fit the bill.


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## brickcity (Jan 23, 2014)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Eh... just take it easy. Also... please remember I don't make the rules.
> 
> As far as the Chinesium I avoid it as much as possible, have for a long time. I'd much rather spend a few extra bucks to support my (extended) neighbors. As I live in Japan for me that means first choice is made here, close second made in the USA.
> 
> Bottom line as I see it is that our first responsibility should be to those around us... a profitable and healthy society benefits everyone in it.



OK. So how is this thread not political? Remember "you don't make the rules".


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

TooTall999 said:


> So do you think we should boycott every snowblower brand that uses engines produced in China? Good luck finding one, or an engine to repower an old snowblower.


sorry , but not every engine is built in China. do more homework, grasshopper.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

The Q said:


> Global economy. Blame the politicians and the CEO`s.


Ultimately you have to blame the consumer.....


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

orangputeh said:


> If you boycotted products based on a companies or countries integrity you would not be able to buy ANYTHING.
> 
> You have to pick your battles.
> 
> ...


He is a member of one of the largest gangs in LA. He flashed gang signs during his Superbowl halftime performance. He is a thug it figures he is friends with Martha Stewart


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

Snoop D and Martha?


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

brickcity said:


> OK. So how is this thread not political? Remember "you don't make the rules".


We're talking about cheap products, many of which are in fact 'Made in China'.


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## Honda1132 (Sep 2, 2016)

orangputeh said:


> Ultimately you have to blame the consumer.....


Or the shareholders that want quick value



Hollowpoint said:


> Snoop D and Martha?


Do they have matching ankle bracelets?


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> We're talking about cheap products, many of which are in fact 'Made in China'.


No we are talking about supporting "bad actors" and how everyone sold the us out.


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

Tony-chicago said:


> No we are talking about supporting "bad actors" and how everyone sold the us out.


Where else can you get all this entertainment for free?🤡


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

OK hold up on the reports... Yes I'm aware of the thread, see my earlier replies.

Somewhere here there is a 'safe' space to vent a little... please help me maintain the balance between that and the alternative(s).

Tony: I hate to say it Buddy... but this is the real world. There _are_ a lot of 'bad actors' and ya the entire consumer population globally _has_ been 'sold out' for corporate profits. That's just the truth of it... as 'they' look down upon the lines for gas from their private jets stocked with caviar.

Relatively civil discussion of these woes will continue. Uncivilized postings will earn a keelhauling, then a quartering on the rack, then into the bilge with a moldy loaf of bread.

Please share with the rats, else they'll have yer toes instead.

I hope I've been clear. Regards,


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## BullFrog (Oct 14, 2015)

Hollowpoint said:


> Snoop D and Martha?


A match made in heaven for sure.


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

Honda1132 said:


> Do they have matching ankle bracelets?


LMAO!


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## TooTall999 (Nov 19, 2015)

orangputeh said:


> sorry , but not every engine is built in China. do more homework, grasshopper.


Name one American brand that uses American made engines...go ahead, I'll wait....


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

TooTall999 said:


> Name one American brand that uses American made engines...go ahead, I'll wait....


Ok Mexico?


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

[SOAP BOX MODE]

There are some basic for-profit corporate processes that all should be aware of. One is that, unless there's a specific exception called out in their governance, the prime purpose of them is to maximize shareholder return on investment. That almost always means finding the lowest-cost solutions to materials and labor.

We point fingers at foreign suppliers for paying low wages and hiring kids to work in factories, but the first clickbait impression is often far from the local truth. I was shuttling to a few projects in Asia in the 1990's, at the same time that Nike and other shoe manufacturers were getting a lot of heat for working conditions at contract factories in Indonesia. Workers there were making the equivalent of a couple $US per day doing piecework in those factories. The average income in the country at the time was half that, so folks working there were making plenty by local standards. And anxious to get relatives (wives, children) in to work there, and work longer hours to make even more. A family income of $10/day sounds like nothing in the US today, but there at that time it was like winning the lottery every payday. That's the cost standard that we need to be thinking about as we try to lure manufacturing jobs back to the U.S., like it or not.

Well over half of the total clothing dollars spent in the U.S. go through WalMart's cash registers. The bag of socks I bought at Costco say they were made in Vietnam. Other stuff comes from central American countries, or other second- or third-world countries where labor costs are low relative to what are considered the minimum "acceptable" in the U.S.. 

In the 1970's and eighties, I bought a company that was manufacturing, among other things, cable assemblies and antennas for car phones. Our competition in the market came from Asian suppliers who offered to match our product catalog for about 30% of what it cost me just in materials. Our focus was on premium cable and workmanship, and it didn't take the Asian suppliers long to make the same quality cable and connectors, figure out how to do consistent connections and assembly, and duplicate or exceed the packaging. The car phone market disappeared as pocket phones took over the market, so the decisions on the products were made for us. We had other products and channels, but eventually we were done as the imported products were cheaper and better than what we could make with the equipment and labor we had available. Rinse, repeat, and you have the story of many thousands of manufacturing businesses in the U.S., be they big or small.

If the foreign supply chains suddenly dried up (like they have for the last year-plus...), It's not like we can (have been able to) just dust off a few factories, bring in already-talented staff, and be instantly self-sufficient on manufactured stuff again. Further, the factories we are (were?) buying from "over there" have their materials sources lined up already. Setting up that whole logistics isn't something that happens overnight, and where those raw materials come from someplace else means the same shipping and supply logistics issues will apply to us as to the foreign manufacturers we depend on now.

Anybody around here have the equipment and infrastructure all ready to cost-efficiently make and deliver the bag of socks that WalMart is selling? Bueller? How about snow blower parts? (keeping the theme alive here...) $99 engines anyone? Oh, and we want to pay good wages to our workers, and of course maximize our pensions and 401k dollars invested in those companies like Costco and WalMart. Maximize profit for me please? It's what most shareholders seem to want.

[/soap box mode]


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

One thing I hear a lot from the younger generations here in the US is the phrase "cheap Chinese junk", "Chinesium" and other derogatory terms.

I taught my kids to think hard before they join the bandwagon and use these terms ignorantly.

Consider this $20 Chinese carburetor here. There is already prejudice that it looks cheap, probably won't work, and the quality is inconsistent.

Do you think you can make this carburetor here in the US that meets or exceeds the quality of a "Chinese" carburetor for $20? Now, package and ship that part half way across the world, pay import duties, warehouse costs, and still sell it at $20?


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

The question you have to ask yourself is: _Should_ a carburetor cost $20?

At some point there's a greater cost to be paid to equalize the system. "Cheap now" is in my opinion somewhat short-sighted, sacraficing domestic jobs and manufacturing capability for the perceived 'convenience' of inexpensive goods. The Biblical equivalent of trading your birthright for a bowl of soup... once again imo.

What if the rest of the poo hits the fan and those ships stop coming... what then?


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> What if the rest of the poo hits the fan and those ships stop coming... what then?


Mad Max is the first thing that crosses my mind.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

dr bob said:


> [SOAP BOX MODE]
> 
> There are some basic for-profit corporate processes that all should be aware of. One is that, unless there's a specific exception called out in their governance, the prime purpose of them is to maximize shareholder return on investment. That almost always means finding the lowest-cost solutions to materials and labor.
> 
> ...


Yes that is how it is. But is that how you want it. There are solutions


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

TooTall999 said:


> Name one American brand that uses American made engines...go ahead, I'll wait....


Well, Honda Power Equipment Mfg., LLC of Swepsonville, NC does build the entire HS720 single stage on site including the GC190 and GS190 engines.

And Honda GX snow engines for the US built two stage HSS machines are all built in the Thailand Honda engine plant, not in China.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> The question you have to ask yourself is: _Should_ a carburetor cost $20?


I don't know how much a good quality replacement carburetor should cost. I was making an example if a product was made outside the US and is sold here in the US for $20 , can we make it here and sell it for $20.

When I was growing up, a TV, snowblower, bicycles were a huge purchase. It was almost a " lifetime" purchase that was greatly appreciated and maintained well for many years. Most of the stuff today aren't bought with the same mentality. How cheap can we get it until the next better model comes along is often the thought.


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

aa335 said:


> I don't know how much a good quality replacement carburetor should cost. I was making an example if a product was made outside the US and is sold here in the US for $20 , can we make it here and sell it for $20.
> 
> When I was growing up, a TV, snowblower, bicycles were a huge purchase. It was almost a " lifetime" purchase that was greatly appreciated and maintained well for many years. Most of the stuff today aren't bought with the same mentality. How cheap can we get it until the next better model comes along is often the thought.


I love it when people throw good stuff out for me to fix on the cheap. I make money all the time on others that say "I need a new one, this one bit the dust".


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

tabora said:


> Well, Honda Power Equipment Mfg., LLC of Swepsonville, NC does build the entire HS720 single stage on site including the GC190 and GS190 engines.
> 
> And Honda GX snow engines for the US built two stage HSS machines are all built in the Thailand Honda engine plant, not in China.


I know for cars sold in the US, the sticker on a new car has the percentage of domestic content. I was surprised to learn that Honda (a foreign nameplate) has more domestic content than domestic brand.

So domestic nameplate doesn't always mean domestic content.

While we are on the topic, I wonder if Ariens would disclose how much domestic content it has on their products since they are loudly touting Made in the USA.


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## Shovel (Mar 26, 2019)

tdipaul said:


> I believe 99% of the products Harbor Freight sells are from China and,
> 
> Due to their recent behavior it is clear China is not our ally and all we are doing is building their economy (and military!) at the expense of ours.
> 
> ...


I prefer Japanese in general for quality...anyway back to Harbor freight 
Good inventory...decent prices..some stuff is junk..some stuff is ok..and some stuff is actually great .
I won't boycott China manufacturers for decisions that thier government makes.
That's kinda like punishing the Russian citizens for the Ukraine ordeal...It just got worse..its now full sanctions...problem is we actually rely more on Russia than they rely on us..we just shot ourselves in the foot...China enjoys our purchases but doesn't actually need us to survive.
At one time we purchased very little from China...We had to have verification that there was no forced labor or the products were not govt subsidized ...Not just us.. much of the world had the same Policy. 
Bill Clinton took the initiative to end that all and go most of the other countries to agree...China started booming as a result..I believe the forced labor etc is not as bad as it used to be.. part of the reason China can produce so cheap is the employer (corps) have apt buildings and cafeterias for the worker and its family...so all the basics are provided..the wages don't have to be spent on rent etc.
They also have a much lower tax system..our system is based on repetitive tax...everything is taxed whenever it switches hands...the end consumer ultimately pays for it as the costs just keep getting passed on.
The Chinese are hard working...intelligent...and proud people..Since is everything is so tightly controlled by the government...the government created those people per say.

Allies..not all nations are going to be our allies...we kinda damaged our reputation with the invasion of Iraq..also invaded Afghanistan ..neither involved in 911 .
We had the government overthrown in Iran decades ago and put in the leader of our choosing...up until the Iran was very moderate and resembled more western culture than Middle Eastern..China knows all this as well...we have had our nose in more international affairs than any other nation...many nations live by the old rule of the US should mind its own business...I can see thier point..not saying I agree.. back to China..China wants to be number one...Just like we wanted to be number one...We need to get along with them and respect each other's political positions in the word...animosity will do nothing except strive for them to become stronger m

Sent from my SM-A115U1 using Tapatalk


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

Honda1132 said:


> Do they have matching ankle bracelets?


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## model a lover (10 mo ago)

real world with HT is not every item is made in china, a cheap HT set of flare nut wrenches in my box are stamped made in india others thailand.

yet in reality there is not much being made today that fails to have some amount of imported content from some low labor cost far eastern country


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## dr bob (Dec 12, 2015)

A lot of manufacturing was moved out of China thanks to a tariff program expanded by the last administration. Great idea in shallow theory, but the ripples from that have turned into other problems in other places. I'm not going to get all muddy in the politics wallow, just know that stuff doesn't just happen on its own. It all should have been managed decades earlier but wasn't.

My first serious job out of school was in manufacturing. It's one of only a few industries (mining and oil, some energy producers) where value is actually added. I enjoyed it a lot, but competition was always there to keep you looking for better/faster/cheaper ways to get things on a retailer's shelf. Short-term thinking sometimes drove serious decisions on sourcing stuff, and like lots of other places the manufacturing effort was "consolidated" in lowest-cost places be they US or not. The decision driver was always the total cost of a product on a shelf somewhere. To the mil, you can identify that number for every item for every joe-the-grocer's shelf anywhere. Hey, I wrote the software.

So fast-forward to the Harbor Freight model. I can wander in, and for under $10 get a set of combination wrenches from 7mm to 19mm, polished and plated over decent steel. Someone discovered and mined the steel or brought it as recycle on a ship from the US, finished the steel process as needed, stamped out the blanks for the wrenches, forged ground broached and trimmed them, polished again and plated, assembled onto the plastic holder that someone else made from oil from somewhere, dropped them into boxes from somewhere and cases from a similar somewhere, then transported them to a port where they were loaded into containers and onto ships, transported to US ports where the containers were unloaded and trucked to warehouses and distribution centers where the wrench sets were inventoried and stored, then picked and shipped in bins by truck to a retail store somewhere in the US, where they were received, inventoried and stored, then placed on hook on shelves and racks in a retail space that includes clerks and cashiers, supervisors and store managers. I wander in with my $10, or maybe $7 on sale after I see a printed flier or online promotion e-mail and decide I can use them. And wander out. And every step of the way included costs and markups so that each and every person or interest involved in every step in the whole chain can make a profit. That's what we (the American manufacturers) are competing with.

Am I doing a more "loyal American" thing by getting a virtually identical wrench set from an American-named tool truck salesman for 15x the HF cost? Maybe a little, but the tools are made in the same factories and shipped to the U.S the same way. The name stamped onto the wrenches might be Mac instead of Pittsburgh, but only the last-mile of the delivery chain has changed.

Think about all those cast aluminum friction wheels we hunt for when our 10 or even 20 year old ones wear out. I wonder what it would take to get a small US foundry and machine shop to make a few dozen for us. hey, I could buy a whole 'nother machine for that!

In business school we are told to focus on the bottom line, and to stay on as a leader in a business we get to deliver quarterly results that satisfy investors. Meanwhile, we are competing with a socialized business philosophy that is decades farsighted. That's what we are competing with.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Yep.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Some tools are still completely handmade in the USA. Here's my Lie-Nielsen #4 plane:










Adjustable wrenches, handmade in Canada:










Handsaw, made in Japan:










Etc...  🍻

Related video:


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## The Q (Dec 19, 2016)

TooTall999 said:


> Name one American brand that uses American made engines...go ahead, I'll wait....


Well seeing the above statement is a little vague, Harley Davidson motors are an American brand made in Milwaukee, WI.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Want a japanese saw.
Course then I would have to prove how poor my kayak building skills are.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Here's my Lie-Nielsen #4 plane


I love Lie-Nielsen! I drive right by them every time I go to Vinalhaven. If I'm traveling on a weekday with some time to kill, I always love going in there. Hope their showroom reopens again soon...


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

tabora said:


> I love Lie-Nielsen! I drive right by them every time I go to Vinalhaven. If I'm traveling on a weekday with some time to kill, I always love going in there. Hope their showroom reopens again soon...


I have their pocket block plane too... I smile every time I use that stuff. 🍻


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## Cstanis (Oct 19, 2021)

The Q said:


> Well seeing the above statement is a little vague, Harley Davidson motors are an American brand made in Milwaukee, WI.


They are assembled here at the pilgrim road plant in Menomonee Falls along with transmissions. Components come from many locations


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## ST1300 (Feb 17, 2017)

The Q, I really hate to tell you this, but don't bet too much on Harleys being made in the USA. As far back as 1974 some of the Sportster models were using Japanese made front fork setups. On the "big bikes" the first fuel injection models used Magnetti-Morelli systems (Italian I believe) . Some models may or may not also have Brembo brake systems. If you really start checking I think you'll find many "foreign" parts and ideas have been used over the years.
And Harley-Davidson has had manufacturing plants in India for probably 5 years or more now, making some component parts for some of their bikes (though still mostly assembled in the US). They even have a few smaller models (500cc and smaller) completely made in India imported for sale in the US under the Harley brand. 
I would seriously doubt that any internal combustion vehicle or equipment is completely made in any one country anymore. I would have to say the more complicated or systems used, the more countries are involved.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

Just curious how many hand planes does YR possess.

Easier to store than 10+ snowblower harem that oneracer has.


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## RickCoMatic (Dec 29, 2020)

Nice patriotic rant.

Now, ... let's play.

What car do you drive?
Phone?
TV?
Recvr/Ampllifier?
Kitchen appliances?
Wristwatch?
Sneakers?
Sportswear?
Fishing reel?
Video camera?
SLR/DSLR Camera?

Open a window.
Go through the house and throw everything NOT made in the USA, ... out the window.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Easy Boys... once again a reminder to stay Cool. 😎

That said, most of the above and to the best of my ability is Made in Japan.

Amplifier for example... 1973 Sansui AU-7500. Sneakers too, watch Seiko 5 JDM... it's not a perfect world, clearly, but we do the best we can.

Agreed that atm if we had to toss everything with imported components we'd be running short.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

I've got 2 pairs of speakers made in Kentucky and Kansas.
Carbon fiber tripod made in California
A integrated amplifier made in Connecticut
A Toro Powerlite made in Minnesota
A Polaroid Land Camera made in New York


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

aa335 said:


> ...A integrated amplifier made in Connecticut


Many interesting possibilities there... go on... 😁

My speakers were made in Denmark... that was acceptable to me. 🍻


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> My speakers were made in Denmark... that was OK with me. 🍻


Got 5 of those Danish speakers too. Beautiful and had them for 20 years. Can't afford the Italian, German, British or French ones.  Although the Italians and the French were quites seductive....in sound.....

The British and the Germans were accurate and up tight...in sound....


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

dr bob said:


> That's what we are competing with.


When I had class reunion shirts embroidered, I quickly found the various Polo type shirts were made in certain foreign countries. The manufacturers actually put up all the housing for the "Slave Labor" folks that made them. Sad.

Another American miracle of marketing/bean counting occurred 30 years ago. Remember the shoe polish you used? Sold in excess of 50k worth of industrial pump equipment/pneumatic controls to set up new production lines for the company to get into car care products, Waxes, Soaps, Wheel Cleaners etc. Brilliant idea and a "shoe" in for the company already using the best Carnauba wax in the world (for shoe polish) to get into car care products. The plant engineer I worked with called me 2 years into the project/production to inform me the MBA's pulled the plug on the whole thing. Why? They couldn't afford to pay/wasn't cost effective for the exorbitant "shelf space" fees in the K-Marts, Pep Boys, Wally Worlds etc.

Family Industrial Supplies businesses like I was born and raised in the late 40's-early 50's are extinct today. No need to explain that one.


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## aa335 (Jan 21, 2020)

Yanmar Ronin said:


> Many interesting possibilities there... go on... 😁


My son and daughter had a rare opportunity to play on a beautiful Kawaii CR-40 piano. It sounded as beautiful as a teenager can play it.


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

ST1300 said:


> The Q, I really hate to tell you this, but don't bet too much on Harleys being made in the USA.


There was a time when HD was going to be stripped of 'USA Made Label", Engines on touring models may be assembled here but castings for the "Jugs" are made elsewhere. We ride every year to the York, PA assembly plant for the "Tour".
Seeing fenders stamped, small parts being robot welded etc is fascinating. It's what you don't see due to proprietary manufacture like robotized painting etc and crates of prefabricated components, from who knows where. Back in the day my father sold handheld assembly air tools to Harley. Most have been replaced with automation and torque sensing tools. Assembly folks don't pick up a tool rather its placed for them to use/held on automated balancing equipment. Very impressive I might add.


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## Hollowpoint (Oct 20, 2021)

dr bob said:


> In business school we are told to focus on the bottom line, and to stay on as a leader in a business we get to deliver quarterly results that satisfy investors. Meanwhile, we are competing with a socialized business philosophy that is decades farsighted. That's what we are competing with.


Enjoyed your points.
One point left out is how law is suffocating America, suffice it to say DER, OSHA etc. Attorney Phillip Howard wrote a best seller book 1995 entitled "The Death of Common Sense"
"Attorney Howard makes an obvious but important point by decrying a system of governmental regulations whose complexity and detail often cause more harm than good; but his solutions are vague and quixotic. Howard contends that our nation has substantially abandoned a legal system that requires judges, legislators, and administrators to exercise good judgment and common sense. Rather, in an effort to promote certainty, uniformity, and fairness, we have created a nightmarish system of regulations managed by ineffectual and often corrupt bureaucrats who can avoid responsibility for the destructive consequences of the system they design and enforce."

Ingersoll Rand Pump Division P'Burg, NJ was screwed by govt regulations. Arsenic occurs naturally in the ground at approx 3 PPM (parts per million) Waste foundry sand IR used in mold castings registered 2 PPM and they were punished millions.
Nuns in NYC raised funds to refurbish a building in the city for the homeless. They were stopped by regulations requiring an elevator in a 3 story building they couldn't afford. You think the homeless care about going up stairs?

Invite you to read the book if you have time.


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## model a lover (10 mo ago)

talk of harley in the 1970's.please let us remember that was when harley was really AMF not the brand of old or of today, and when the product was not of so good a quality. back than i purchased a brand new sportster 1200, that was when they first made shifting on the left, the transmission broke 3 blocks from the dealer .


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## The Q (Dec 19, 2016)

ST1300 said:


> The Q, I really hate to tell you this, but don't bet too much on Harleys being made in the USA. As far back as 1974 some of the Sportster models were using Japanese made front fork setups. On the "big bikes" the first fuel injection models used Magnetti-Morelli systems (Italian I believe) . Some models may or may not also have Brembo brake systems. If you really start checking I think you'll find many "foreign" parts and ideas have been used over the years.
> And Harley-Davidson has had manufacturing plants in India for probably 5 years or more now, making some component parts for some of their bikes (though still mostly assembled in the US). They even have a few smaller models (500cc and smaller) completely made in India imported for sale in the US under the Harley brand.
> I would seriously doubt that any internal combustion vehicle or equipment is completely made in any one country anymore. I would have to say the more complicated or systems used, the more countries are involved.


If you read my post again you will see that I was responding to a question on motors (engines) made in America and I specifically said "Harley Davidson motors" in my response. Not the bike.


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## Elfiero (Apr 9, 2019)

Not that anyone cares but, being any American(of norwegian ancestors) I might point out that everyone, (including myself) wants to "pretend" they are livingout their version of the american dream, without doing anything that is the least bit painful. that is why Law-makers created all those laws to protect us. In third world counties where stuff is actually made, they don't care if you hurt yourself making stuff to ship to America, if you get hurt, they say too bad, now get out of the way, we have a schedule to make! Otherwise, you wouldn't have a $100 LED tv to complain about. This is CHINA in a nutshell.Meanwhile, we feel EVERYONE deserves good working conditions and a fair wage. See the problem? remember, I said I was included.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

RickCoMatic said:


> Nice patriotic rant.
> 
> Now, ... let's play.
> 
> ...


Is this how it should be or how
Sold out now a tough row to hoe
Not our fault...
Long time
But it seems no matter how many notices we are presented we do not learn.


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## TooTall999 (Nov 19, 2015)

The Q said:


> Well seeing the above statement is a little vague, Harley Davidson motors are an American brand made in Milwaukee, WI.


Okay, seeing this is a snow blower forum, I was referring to snow blowers.


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## Big Ed (Feb 10, 2013)

Years ago the President of my union local, USW, who worked where I worked had a box of new hats for us.
Nice, it had the USW with our local number, an American flag on one side. Said MAX on the other side. Across the back it said I AM THE UNION! & www.USW #XXX.org.
I grabbed two of them. 
I took them and tried on each one commenting on how well they were made, then I read the tag.
Made in China! 
I looked at him and didn't even have to open my mouth, he had one of the made in America hats and tossed it to me and it was just crap. He said he couldn't see buying the ones that were made in America. They were 2 bucks more too.
Now our union preached about buying products that are made in America too.
Some members refused them, some members refused everything that were made in china....everything.


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

I put the Snap On dealer in his place once on American made stuff when he criticized me for my Harbor Fright tool cart, told me I needed a Snap on one. I asked "do you still sell the Blueprint ones?" he said yes he does. "You got one one the truck in the box? "yup" so I go out to look at the is new Blueprint cart. As I am looking at the box it clearly says "Made In China" on it, so I started laughing at him and said "look at the box dude" while all the other techs were standing there. I call him a big old hypocrite for selling China made stuff and laughed so hard I got a headache. He stopped coming by my stall after that day.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

I made most of the furniture in my house. It will last almost forever.
I buy American antiques that were made back way way back by American firms when things were built to last. 

My bicycle is an old Schwinn.
Most of my tools my Dad gave me. All made in the USA seventy years old or older.

We heat the house and cook on an American made wood stove. 
One of my hobbies is buying USA made goods from thrift stores. There are a couple dozen of them in Reno and it can take me a couple days to visit them all.

My wife was made in the USA
If I have to I will buy stuff from Japan. Most of you guys remember that back in the 60's-70's if it was Made In Japan it was JUNK. They have come a long way. So hasnt Hong Kong and Taiwan. Used to be junk from there but not anymore.

It won't take China long to catch up on quality.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

model a lover said:


> talk of harley in the 1970's.please let us remember that was when harley was really AMF not the brand of old or of today, and when the product was not of so good a quality. back than i purchased a brand new sportster 1200, that was when they first made shifting on the left, the transmission broke 3 blocks from the dealer .


Ha. I took an old AMF Harley on a cross country 5 month , 15,000 mile trip back in the 80's. The only problem I had was a bad spring in the generator which caused a brush to wear down too much ( easy fix ) and replace the rear tire.

But before I left on that trip , my buddy and I completely tore down the whole bike , engine and tranny included and beefed it up. Too much work to list. 

So , ya, AMF Harleys really did suck.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

I agree...old stuff wins. Back from the days when steel was thick and sheep knew when to run.

My collection of OPE speaks for me... why do I have the hand-crank start water-cooled diesel tiller that Noah had on the Ark? Because it'll still be just fine when I'm pushing up daisies for it to till. 😎


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## JLawrence08648 (Jan 15, 2017)

Place that is still junk, Made in Russia, except for their space rockets and ballistic missiles for some reason. Trucks, tanks, cars, breaking down. Their Performance Enhancing drugs work real well.


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## tabora (Mar 1, 2017)

JLawrence08648 said:


> Place that is still junk, Made in Russia, except for their space rockets and ballistic missiles for some reason.


Some older Russian tech was first rate. I have an old Russian missile sub clock from back in the days when they were still windup. It's rated watertight to any depth, and we use it at the island where normal stuff corrodes quickly. That was quality. 















I also have one of their Olympic match air pistols. The grip was junk (my wife had a nice walnut one made for me), but the rest is very high quality.


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

Walked through hf today. That 6xx cc engine looked a little big. Still...
Looking at tool holders and cheap moving blankets. Kitchen and bath are ripped up and I need to do a few things. Some things were interesting, catch your attention.
I always need a shower when I leave there.


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## Auger1 (Dec 4, 2020)

orangputeh said:


> Ha. I took an old AMF Harley on a cross country 5 month , 15,000 mile trip back in the 80's. The only problem I had was a bad spring in the generator which caused a brush to wear down too much ( easy fix ) and replace the rear tire.
> 
> But before I left on that trip , my buddy and I completely tore down the whole bike , engine and tranny included and beefed it up. Too much work to list.
> 
> So , ya, AMF Harleys really did suck.


When we were kids we used to see an AMF Harley and say "here comes the bowling pin motorcycles" those owners were not amused by that.


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## ST1300 (Feb 17, 2017)

In defense of AMF-- (no, never worked for them or owned stock)Yes, American Machine and Foundry made bowling equipment along with many, many other things. They owned H-D between 1969 and 1981. The shifting lever change was by federal regulation, somewhere in that era the government declared (for your safety) that all motorcycles be built or sold in the US with the same standard shift and brake patterns. H-D sold out to AMF because of the Japanese competition and federal regulations. They were on their way to going out of business. (Your won't find this in the H-D coffee table book) but AMF modernized a lot of the engine parts--they got rid of the old DC generators and went to under flywheel alternators, they got rid of the old points/distributors and put the on the first types of electronic ignitions (for H-D). They made big improvements to the electric starters and battery and many other improvements all to compete with the motorcycles being imported. Mainly Japanese and mostly Honda. When they started making money again Willie G Davidson (grandson of founder) formed a group of people who then bought back the company and then proceeded to continue the modernization of the manufacturing and products. The rest is well advertised history.
I have owned and ridden many miles on a 1954 KH and 1968 FLH and quite a few miles on other H-D models I didn't own.


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## JetLag (Dec 28, 2021)

Wilson said:


> It's already too late. China has owned you for years now.


 Not too late ... Many Patriots out there ... except most/all sites that allow social response are blocking the majority of people who want it the way it used to be. We can once again be like it was only a year ago. It was improving and can again. T2024


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## harry398 (Jun 22, 2021)

Wilson said:


> It's already too late. China has owned you for years now.


they dont own YOU. they own US bonds. Treasury Debt. and so does a wide array of investors/nations globally.

Corporate greed for low cost Labor. gonna bite them in the a$$ eventually.

That Japanese are the smartest ones, produce in this country and pay good wages. I buy them ahead of any chinese stuff myself....


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## Tony-chicago (Feb 10, 2021)

JetLag said:


> Not too late ... Many Patriots out there ... except most/all sites that allow social response are blocking the majority of people who want it the way it used to be. We can once again be like it was only a year ago. It was improving and can again. T2024


Cart, horse, barn.
There are many americans. Few patriots. And many who follow the wrong plan.


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## Yanmar Ronin (Jan 31, 2015)

Let's keep the Patriots out of it please... this isn't baseball... 🥴


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## SnowGuy69 (Feb 12, 2014)

aa335 said:


> When was the last time CEO's plan for the long term, instead of from quarter to quarter?
> 
> The problem is internal.


The problem is the way they are paid. They get a reasonable salary and can get HUGE bonus based on meeting performance goals. The bonuses can be worth thousands and thousands of dollars.
Plus, they get stock options. Want the options to be worth something? Drive up the stock price. 

So, if a CEO gets a cheaper part from China that saves the company millions he is rewarded. Long-term thinking that COSTS the company money (in the short run) but will profit in the future could get you terminated.

Change the way management gets paid. If their bonuses were paid on a 5 year place they would think differnt.


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## Ran440 (Apr 5, 2014)

tdipaul said:


> I believe 99% of the products Harbor Freight sells are from China and,
> 
> Due to their recent behavior it is clear China is not our ally and all we are doing is building their economy (and military!) at the expense of ours.
> 
> ...


I always try to buy North America first. We are way to dependent on China made stuff.
Like others have said, if we keep this up China will own us.
Wake up people.


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## Rooskie (Feb 12, 2015)

Why don't you all move this conversation elsewhere,away from folks who want to get their snowblowers fixed?
Get into bed with the Saudis if you want, I just want the height of an old single stage i'm fixing.
I see these conversations are now allowed here?
Too Sad.


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## orangputeh (Nov 24, 2016)

One of my great joys is going to garage and estate sales.

There is no feeling better than finding an old tool that has MADE IN USA stamped on it. 
Some are 50-60 years old or older and still work like new.

I especially like the ones that have been neglected and need refurbishing. Wish I had taken before and after pictures of some of the tools have restored.
Some of the most handsome ones have wood handles.

I'll try to post one here later.


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