# Craftsman 22" 5hp problem



## Ryanc91

What's going on guys, here in New York we got nailed with a solid storm so I picked up a used craftsman 22" 5hp snowblower. Worked amazing all day, until the very end. I let it idle for a second while shoveled some snow off my path and I heard what sounded like a belt break free spin for a second and stall out. I pulled on the cord 2 times and it sounded like something was just spinning free with slight slaps, after 2 times the 3rd time the cord froze and wouldn't pull anymore. I'm not sure I believe the engine seized as the oil was great and it ran great all day so my question is could a belt have snapped and locked something up? The two pulls could have potentially wrapped up the belt on something and got it stuck? I'm not to familiar with these machines but do have some basic motor knowledge. 
Any advice would be appreciated !


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## dbert

I'm afraid I would expect the worst by the sounds of it. 
You may be lucky so we'll cross our fingers with you.


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## Ryanc91

Unfortunately I do too. What's a rebuild cost on these?


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## unearth078

craftsman 247.887001 ? $80 for Crank - $40 for connecting Rod. 

ENGINE Diagram & Parts List for Model 143045003 Craftsman-Parts All-Products-Parts | SearsPartsDirect


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## dbert

Can we assume it's a Tecumseh?
Take a close look at the side of the engine block under the gas tank. When you throw a rod on these often you will see damage on the right side of the engine. If you have electric start it may be under the starter.
They use the term "beyond economical repair".


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## dbert

While you have the belt cover off looking for a miracle jammed belt, note if it has two shafts with pulleys or just one that the belts connect to.
A single shaft engine may be a candidate for an engine replacement with a inexpensive honda clone.


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## Ryanc91

Unfortunately I would have someone else do the rebuild as timing is tight for me right now. Gonna pull the spark plug out tomorrow and see if I can get some movement.


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## Ryanc91

I believe it's a Tecumseh


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## dbert

Yes that is a Tecumseh. I've witnessed thrown rods on these when full of oil (though not often). I've also heard several times now of this occurring after working it hard and letting it idle for a cooldown. If anyone wants to explain that to me, I'm all ears.


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## Ryanc91

Exactly what I was hoping wasn't the problem. ****. Well the kid I bought it from has been more than helpful actually and his father is going to look at it. I paid 240 for it less than 24 hours ago so hopefully things work out


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## dbert

That sounds a little too familiar. Other side. My son sold a 7hp Toro to a guy. It was running well and had a fresh oil change. Came back a week later with a thrown rod. Still full of clean oil. My son was not too happy about giving the guy his money back for a broken snowblower.


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## nwcove

if it is a single shaft engine ( assuming it grenaded), as mentioned, a honda clone for $99, a couple hrs work, and you are back in action....better than new. jmo


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## Ryanc91

nwcove said:


> if it is a single shaft engine ( assuming it grenaded), as mentioned, a honda clone for $99, a couple hrs work, and you are back in action....better than new. jmo


Iink me!! I would be just fine wth that and a full engine swap I could do much easier than a rebuild. I rebuilt my jet ski and dreaded it!


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## Ryanc91

dbert said:


> That sounds a little too familiar. Other side. My son sold a 7hp Toro to a guy. It was running well and had a fresh oil change. Came back a week later with a thrown rod. Still full of clean oil. My son was not too happy about giving the guy his money back for a broken snowblower.


Truth be told I would never even take back a full refund, I did my driveway twice which is a massive driveway plus my neighbors twice. I got use out of it, but if his father will swap a new motor in free of labor is be very happy or if he even gave me half back


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## dbert

He was bummed about it, but we made some lemonade (from the lemon) and used it for a Predator engine we had picked up on sale a couple months before. It was the machine I talked about HERE.
After doing this I talked him into keeping it.


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## Ryanc91

I would drop a new motor on this thing for sure, I just need a link to the direct swap motor!


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## suspicionogignorance3

If the engine did throw a rod, during the cooldown...Ask what viscosity grade oil they last used in it? Just curious..


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## nwcove

Ryanc91 said:


> Iink me!! I would be just fine wth that and a full engine swap I could do much easier than a rebuild. I rebuilt my jet ski and dreaded it!


Gas Engines – Save on Replacement Engines at Harbor Freight

i think there is some coupon thing that brings the price down to 99. very common repower.....done it myself on a vintage ariens with the canadian 208 cc version, works great.


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## dbert

There are many threads in the RE-POWERING section.

Edit: I keep forgetting to mention. Unfortunately the electric start feature you have on you current machine is not available on the Harbor Freight Predator.
Also, because we failed to mention it. Tecumseh is no longer in business which is why the repower with something else is so popular.


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## Ryanc91

What would be the best engine to drop on here? I'm really new at this snowblower thing so I'm not sure which way to go. I currently have a 5hp should I be jumping to a 6.5


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## nwcove

if your current engine is a single shaft, the 6.5 is a perfect engine, add an impeller kit and that machine should work better than new. you may have to mod the chute rotation rod location, but that can be quite simple.


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## dbert

Are you OK with throwing snow across the street?
It'll be a bit much for a 22, but....it'll be fine.


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## unearth078

i just joined the forum to read up on the repowers. i too have a 5hp tecumseh craftsman that will be getting a 212cc predator monday... 

Boy did we get slammed in philadelphia this weekend...


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## Ryanc91

nwcove said:


> if your current engine is a single shaft, the 6.5 is a perfect engine, add an impeller kit and that machine should work better than new. you may have to mod the chute rotation rod location, but that can be quite simple.


Where and what impeller kit so I need?

Lol I don't mind throwing snow 22 feet you can work the chute a little bit haha. And the electric start isn't a big deal I didn't use it at all today


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## dbert

unearth078 said:


> i just joined the forum to read up on the repowers. i too have a 5hp tecumseh craftsman that will be getting a 212cc predator monday...
> 
> Boy did we get slammed in philadelphia this weekend...


Welcome unearth.
There are controversies regarding replacing made in USA engines with something from China. They (and many other small engine manufactures in China) copied the Honda design. But the bottom line is you get a good running engine for $99 to replace the tired or damaged engine from a company that is no longer around.


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## Ryanc91

unearth078 said:


> i just joined the forum to read up on the repowers. i too have a 5hp tecumseh craftsman that will be getting a 212cc predator monday...
> 
> Boy did we get slammed in philadelphia this weekend...


Yeah we're looking at a cool 20-25 here on Long Island, let me know how this goes as I'm going to be doing this too I think


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## Ryanc91

As long as I get a solid running engine for $99 I don't care at all lol


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## unearth078

The amount of people who have done and have had great results is appealing, as well as money is always an issue.

Most frustrating feeling having a bum blower and the most snow ive ever seen in the 8 years ive had this thing!!










That was today at 12p. It hasn't stopped! only a slight lull for an hour or so.


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## Ryanc91

unearth078 said:


> The amount of people who have done and have had great results is appealing, as well as money is always an issue.
> 
> Most frustrating feeling having a bum blower and the most snow ive ever seen in the 8 years ive had this thing!!


I'm honestly into it, not worried at all. My main question is are there any step by steps? I would love to see someone with the same blower I have who did the swap


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## unearth078

to be honest, it should be straightforward, but thats going off of step by steps on other blowers. i think you too will have a single pulley motor. as long as the output shaft of the motor is the same as the predator, its a matter of shimming the existing pulley to line up with the auger pulley.

Worst case scenario maybe redrilling the mounting pattern on the blower itself to mount the 212cc predator.


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## dbert

I had to get 4 longer bolts but used the same holes as the original tecumseh. Before we get too carried away, have we determined for sure you have a single shaft 5HP engine?
Having dual shafts (EXAMPLE)  makes thing more complicated


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## Ryanc91

dbert said:


> I had to get 4 longer bolts but used the same holes as the original tecumseh. Before we get too carried away, have we determined for sure you have a single shaft 5HP engine?
> Having dual shafts (EXAMPLE)  makes thing more complicated


Gonna have to check. What's the best way? Remove a cover I have a ton more pictures of the blower if any would give you the tip off on what it has


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## nwcove

Ryanc91 said:


> I'm honestly into it, not worried at all. My main question is are there any step by steps? I would love to see someone with the same blower I have who did the swap


for the most part, the new engine has the same footprint, same shaft height and most likely the same shaft diameter so no issues there. the ohv design may require you to relocate the chute rotation rod because of clearance issues. ( all assuming your current engine isnt dual shaft.....if it is, things get a bit complicated). the impeller mod is simple, buy a kit, or do it cheap and just as easy in a diy fashion.


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## Ryanc91

Looks like judging by others I am going to have a duAl shaft


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## dbert

That would be bad. The second shaft rotates backwards and at half the speed of the main one. 
It's 2 screws to verify. just take the belt cover off. Yes we love photos here.
And model numbers


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## unearth078

Replacement Parts & Accessories | Sears PartsDirect may assist if you have your model handy.


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## Shryp

Were you tipping the blower back and into snow banks often? I think one thing that can accelerate wear on the engine is tipping it backwards a lot. Splash lubed engines are meant to be kept flat when running. When you tip them to extreme angles it acts similar to running them with low to no oil.


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## Ryanc91

I'll have to take a look for model number or remove the cover tomorrow. Unfortunately I can pretty much assure I have dual shaft


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## skutflut

Ryanc91 said:


> What's going on guys, here in New York we got nailed with a solid storm so I picked up a used craftsman 22" 5hp snowblower. Worked amazing all day, until the very end. I let it idle for a second while shoveled some snow off my path and I heard what sounded like a belt break free spin for a second and stall out. I pulled on the cord 2 times and it sounded like something was just spinning free with slight slaps, after 2 times the 3rd time the cord froze and wouldn't pull anymore. I'm not sure I believe the engine seized as the oil was great and it ran great all day so my question is could a belt have snapped and locked something up? The two pulls could have potentially wrapped up the belt on something and got it stuck? I'm not to familiar with these machines but do have some basic motor knowledge.
> Any advice would be appreciated !


Take off the belt cover and see if anything is missing, broken in there. If its just a belt, replace it. 

Did you find any large pools of oil on the ground after it quit?


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## Ryanc91

Shryp said:


> Were you tipping the blower back and into snow banks often? I think one thing that can accelerate wear on the engine is tipping it backwards a lot. Splash lubed engines are meant to be kept flat when running. When you tip them to extreme angles it acts similar to running them with low to no oil.


I did to this a few times actually but nothing extreme or really often.


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## Ryanc91

skutflut said:


> Ryanc91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's going on guys, here in New York we got nailed with a solid storm so I picked up a used craftsman 22" 5hp snowblower. Worked amazing all day, until the very end. I let it idle for a second while shoveled some snow off my path and I heard what sounded like a belt break free spin for a second and stall out. I pulled on the cord 2 times and it sounded like something was just spinning free with slight slaps, after 2 times the 3rd time the cord froze and wouldn't pull anymore. I'm not sure I believe the engine seized as the oil was great and it ran great all day so my question is could a belt have snapped and locked something up? The two pulls could have potentially wrapped up the belt on something and got it stuck? I'm not to familiar with these machines but do have some basic motor knowledge.
> Any advice would be appreciated !
> 
> 
> 
> Take off the belt cover and see if anything is missing, broken in there. If its just a belt, replace it.
> 
> Did you find any large pools of oil on the ground after it quit?[/QUOTE
> No I didn't notice any pool of oil, gonna pop the belt cover off tomorrow
Click to expand...


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## unearth078

your belt cover looks different then mine, so its possible. 

Mine luckily powers the auger and drive through a pulley like this:


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## dbert

The second shaft/pulley will be connected to your drive (wheels). The main shaft will be for the impeller/augers. Because the 2nd shaft rotates a different direction and at a different speed, if you try to connect the belt to the main shaft you will have 5 super fast speeds in reverse and 2 semi fast fwd speeds.
Others here have made it work, but it's nothing like a swap of single to single.
Also. know that Craftsman doesn't actually make snowblowers. They have somebody like Murray or MTD make them.


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## dbert

unearth078 said:


> your belt cover looks different then mine, so its possible.
> 
> Mine luckily powers the auger and drive through a pulley like this:


Yes, you will have a much easier time.


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## Ryanc91

dbert said:


> The second shaft/pulley will be connected to your drive (wheels). The main shaft will be for the impeller/augers. Because the 2nd shaft rotates a different direction and at a different speed, if you try to connect the belt to the main shaft you will have 5 super fast speeds in reverse and 2 semi fast fwd speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Others here have made it work, but it's nothing like a swap of single to single.
> Also. know that Craftsman doesn't actually make snowblowers. They have somebody like Murray or MTD make them.


It appears I have the dual. That changes the approach I'm assuming which sucks! The 2 semi fast speeds wouldn't work well? I wouldn't mind only having two forward soeeds


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## Ryanc91

Also my hand throttle system is a 2 piece , left side is for wheel power and right is for auger


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## dbert

The potential challenges.
Getting to the bolts on the bottom side of the engine.
The pulley may be rusted to the Tecumseh engine shaft.
You chute rotation rod will not clear the new engine.


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## dbert

Ryanc91 said:


> Also my hand throttle system is a 2 piece , left side is for wheel power and right is for auger


Lots of posting while posting going on tonight. There must be a big storm out there.
Ryan
You have a whole new ball game now. finding new pulleys to drive the wheels backwards at the wrong speed for example. The handlebar controls probably wont be the big issue.
Edit:
We often suggest that if you have dual shafts, you try to find a new used motor with dual shafts. Not easy. I'm not saying you don't have the skills for a predator swap. I'm saying it's not worth it in your case.
We can go back to hoping it's not a blown engine and something simple is hanging it up tonight.


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## Ryanc91

dbert said:


> The potential challenges.
> Getting to the bolts on the bottom side of the engine.
> The pulley may be rusted to the Tecumseh engine shaft.
> You chute rotation rod will not clear the new engine.


Pulley is the only thing I'm worried about really


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## Ryanc91

dbert said:


> Ryanc91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also my hand throttle system is a 2 piece , left side is for wheel power and right is for auger
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of posting while posting going on tonight. There must be a big storm out there.
> Ryan
> You have a whole new ball game now. finding new pulleys to drive the wheels backwards at the wrong speed for example. The handlebar controls probably wont be the issue.
Click to expand...

I wasn't sure if my handles would be the giveaway on a 1/2 pulley system. I'll just have to look in the am and pray I have a single which is unlikely with my luck.


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## dbert

Ryanc91 said:


> Pulley is the only thing I'm worried about really


Funny story about the one I did a couple weeks ago. I was trying to attach a puller to the pulley when I realized it would just slide right off. I assumed it was going to be hard so I was going to use a puller and again, it just slid right off.


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## Ryanc91

Well the bad news. 
2 pulley system, 1 belt is very loose and had shears 
I can manually spin the crank a few full turns in each direction before I hit a dead spot and it won't go anymore. Piston is frozen inside head. Doesn't move at all when I spin crank 
Update. I worked the crank back and forth(haha) and got it to break free. I can now pull the cord but it only makes a slapping sound and the loose belt pulley up top spins but will not grip the belt


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## Shryp

That is actually a single pulley system. You have 2 pulleys, but they are on the same shaft. The dual shaft engines physically have the pulleys side by side and next to each other. You could easily drop a Predator on that in an hour or 2.

Before you completely rule out the engine though. Maybe try pulling both belts completely off and then starting it. Normally a broken connecting rod will only allow a half a turn. Also, when you pull the rope is there some resistance like normally when starting an engine or does it spin freely with 0 resistance?

Your front belt (auger) looks way to loose. That doesn't even look connected on the bottom. Sometimes the bearings or gears in the drive system can lock up and cause the engine to feel locked. The drive system is generally always connected to the engine and the clutching takes place half way between the engine and the wheels. The auger clutching is normally right at the belt.

Here is a 5HP dual shaft. See the difference?


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## Ryanc91

I wouldn't say 0 resistance but very minimal. The piston hasn't moved since I've pulled and it appears to have a huge crack on it now


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## Ryanc91

I do see the difference my second pulley is actually a tensioner. My two pulleys are piggy backing Eachother. is at a more 9 o clock location. So the predator could be s good option?


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## Shryp

Predator is a perfect option for you. Grab the $99 coupon and go for it. I wouldn't worry about the extra service plan they offer, but that is up to you. I figure either it will work fine out of the box or you can exchange it right away.

So you pulled the spark plug out and can see the piston does not move when you turn the crank? If the piston doesn't move but the crankshaft does than you definitely broke the rod.

And the piston cracked? That is a new one on me. Are you looking at the piston through the spark plug hole or are you calling the side of the engine under the starter the piston?

Switching to the predator will require 3 things.
1. Your bolts holding it to the frame might need to be slightly longer, though your engine looks to be about the same thickness, so probably don't need those.
2. The bolt going in to the end of the crankshaft holding the pulleys will be a different thread.
3. The crank to turn the chute will need a spacer between it and the handles since the new engine is wider. I used a 2x4 block of wood for one.

4. Optional - You might want to stop at an autoparts store (autozone/advanced/o'reilies) and tell them you want to barrow one of their 2 jaw or 3 jaw pullers. Sometimes you need a little help getting the pulley off the crankshaft.


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## Ryanc91

I can see a big crack on piston from the plug hole. I wish harbor freight had this engine in stock by me I'd tackle it todAy as my driveway doesn't look like it was touched


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## Shryp

Ryanc91 said:


> I can see a big crack on piston from the plug hole. I wish harbor freight had this engine in stock by me I'd tackle it todAy as my driveway doesn't look like it was touched


Harbor Freight normally has them in stock. I have never seen them sold out unless they are having a run on them on the east coast with this storm?


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## unearth078

I am completely disassembled. Headed to my HF in a few minutes. I know they have them in stock. but if not, a buddy even has one in the box in his garage for a gokart. 

Unfortunately my tecumseh has a 7/8 shaft, so ill have to order two 2 3/4" pulleys, in 3/4", for the predator.... was really hoping to have it done today. Maybe i will get creative..


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## Shryp

unearth078 said:


> I am completely disassembled. Headed to my HF in a few minutes. I know they have them in stock. but if not, a buddy even has one in the box in his garage for a gokart.
> 
> Unfortunately my tecumseh has a 7/8 shaft, so ill have to order two 2 3/4" pulleys, in 3/4", for the predator.... was really hoping to have it done today. Maybe i will get creative..


You could shim yours with some copper pipe or something. Another option if you want to do it correctly would be go to Tractor Supply Company or whatever your local farm store is in the area and get new pulleys.


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## Ryanc91

Harbor freight by me has them, gonna grab one this week and take care of it. Person I purchased from offered me $100 back, which is great


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## Ryanc91

Will this motor have the same size shaft as my current?


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## dbert

Ryanc91 said:


> Harbor freight by me has them, gonna grab one this week and take care of it. Person I purchased from offered me $100 back, which is great


Single shaft.
Good news. 
It will take a bit of work, but you will have a new engine mostly paid for. 
Just because it may be tight, try to take that bolt on the front of your pulleys out (or loose at least) before you remove the engine. Otherwise you will be trying to stand on the old engine while you break it free. It should be a normal thread (lefty loosy). You will have to rotate the crank back to where the broken rod makes contact with something and jams. 
While you are there...You can then try to pull the pulley off the shaft and verify it is a 3/4 inch shaft. It should be for a 5 hp. I'm still surprised unearths wasn't.


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## Ryanc91

Yeah the pulley I'll work off while on the machine, gonna grab 2 new belts as well. Anything else needed during this swap?


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## nwcove

Ryanc91 said:


> Yeah the pulley I'll work off while on the machine, gonna grab 2 new belts as well. Anything else needed during this swap?


as mentioned, you may need longer mounting bolts, but maybe not, you will need some hardware store odds n ends to move your chute rod for clearance. you will also need a jug of dino 5w-30 as i dont think the new motor has oil in it. ( my 208 cc clone didnt have any).


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## dbert

When you push down on the auger lever on the handlebar, that belt should tighten up when the idler swings inboard. 
As nwcove mentioned, about a half a quart of oil for the new engine. Understand that this first batch of oil will have to be changed (removed and replaced with new) after just the first couple hours of use. After that, once a year.


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## Ryanc91

nwcove said:


> Ryanc91 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the pulley I'll work off while on the machine, gonna grab 2 new belts as well. Anything else needed during this swap?
> 
> 
> 
> as mentioned, you may need longer mounting bolts, but maybe not, you will need some hardware store odds n ends to move your chute rod for clearance. you will also need a jug of dino 5w-30 as i dont think the new motor has oil in it. ( my 208 cc clone didnt have any).
Click to expand...

What's you guys do to move the chute?


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## dbert

Ryanc91 said:


> What's you guys do to move the chute?


Can you show us what your craftsman chute crank setup looks like now? 
Mostly interested in bracket where it attaches to handlebar, but would like to see the how it's attached at the chute itself.
It may not need anything if it runs low enough. Can you post a good picture of the left side of the blower?
Edit: while you are at the hardware store, pick up a bolt you are missing on the right hand handlebar.


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## Ryanc91

Here's the left side


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## unearth078

Ryan, couple things i had to do:

*1.* Mounted the predator using new hardware. Used this to get an idea of what i would need to do to lined up the pulleys to the drive and auger (Taking the old motor off was cumbersome. lots of moving drive shafts and axles to get too obstructed bolts.)


*2.* Made fun of the wimpy tecumseh


*3.* Picked up 3/4" ID pulleys, for the predator, since the 7/8" ones on my shaft were 2 piece and had a key built into the pulleys themselves.... They wouldnt be easily reused. 
*4.* Spacer to extend the shaft a tiny bit


*4.* Mounted the auger back on to figure out what orientation the pulley would wind up in. To be honest, i need to loose a couple mm to bring the pulley at the furthest end of the shaft in more to better align with auger drive pulley. 


*5.* with a slightly larger pulley then stock, i had to redrill the auger clutch#21, for where the idler pulley#18 needed to sit.


(that doubled hole is OEM. This is the idler pulley re drilled.)

That's really it. I think the hardest thing was taking the auger out of the bucket, in order to get the idler pulley clutch out.


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## Ryanc91

Do I need to go bigger pulley?


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## Shryp

You don't need a bigger pulley. That will make it throw slightly further as you will be spinning the impeller faster. He used a bigger one because that was what he could find in a hurry.

Your chute crank will most likely hit the new engine. Luckily it looks to have a flex joint down by the chute, so moving it shouldn't be too hard. Your choices are basically drill a new hole and move it lower, drill a new hole and move it a lot higher or use a longer bolt and move it outward.


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## Ryanc91

Any tutorials on this particular model? I'm on my phone and it's just a pain lol. The first pulley separated and came off no problem the second one is giving me a harder time currently


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## unearth078

What model is this? 536886120? i ask because my coworker maybe welling to sell his to me cheap - dosent run. 2 predator swaps are better then 1 right?


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## Ryanc91

Just an update. Trying to pull second pulley. Having a hard time currently. Gonna get this motor off and swap the new one on. The pulleys should work fine correct?


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## Ryanc91

Just wanted everyone to know. New heart is on. Transplant went smooth, chute mod was great. Ton of throwing power now. 
For the chute mod I took a half hook with threads on the end and drilled through my handle bars just a little lower than the gear column, I also drilled a little beneath so the half hook would be a closed loop and wound up being recessed in my bars to give it a closed loop. 
My auger belt kept slipping, I wound up removing a tiny washer and added a 3/4 washer in place to correct that issue. Engine started first pull and is throwing snow like a pro!
Thank you to all and enjoy the pictures


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## nwcove

looks great ! and ya have to admit.....the swap was a fun project.


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## Ryanc91

I had a blast, I'm a project kind of guy. Jet skis, cars, etc... Took me about 2 hrs, 45 minutes of it fighting the pulley lol.


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## skutflut

Ryanc91 said:


> I had a blast, I'm a project kind of guy. Jet skis, cars, etc... Took me about 2 hrs, 45 minutes of it fighting the pulley lol.


Don't forget to check the oil on that new engine


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## 43128

did you reuse your old belt guides


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## Ryanc91

Belt guides remained. Added 1/2 qt 5w30 pennzoil to the new motor. Will be changing in 5 hrs


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## Toro-8-2-4

Nice job! After your break in oil change consider using synthetic 5w-30. It is better protection and it will help with cold starts on very cold days.


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## 43128

i would go with mobil one or royal purple synthetic.


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## cansnow1

Awesome read. I enjoyed the story and the pictures :eusa_clap:


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