# Chute Motor?



## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*What's the Best Electric Chute Motor Setup?*

I came across this while on amazon for $24 USD including shipping:
















One of the Answered questions says:

"I have no idea [how much torque]. I used it as a motor to turn my snow blower chute. Lots of torque for this application." 
Craig Brady answered on February 10, 2014 

I have been thinking of how to turn the chute on the Kimpex electrically from inside the Ranger cab. How would it be adapted to the existing chute? Is there a better alternative?


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## tinter (Apr 20, 2014)

Honda uses power window regulator motors. May be easier to use than that motor. You will have to adapt the chute to fit the gear drive of the motor though.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*tinter*: I just replaced the little delrin cylinders in the regulators in the three electric window in my Bronco, so I think I could see how a window regulator motor would work to turn a chute.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

When you guys get a chance, could you post some pictures of what you think is a good set up for an electric chute?


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

_*E350*_, 
Google it and you'll find lots of pictures of different set ups, from gear driven, worm gear driven, cable driven, chain driven, hydraulically driven, cordless drill driven, etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sno...a=X&ei=1nVwVfDMH4T3yQSxmYHQAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ






































I think you can do it in various ways, it all depends on your creative abilities. :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009:

Just keep one thing in mind: *you need a system to make the motor stop on it's limits* or you'll be twisting and/or breaking something.


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## Shryp (Jan 1, 2011)

hsblowersfan said:


> Just keep one thing in mind: *you need a system to make the motor stop on it's limits* or you'll be twisting and/or breaking something.


That is one advantage of the cordless drill method. You already have a clutch built in.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Shryp said:


> That is one advantage of the cordless drill method. You already have a clutch built in.


I've read that on a few threads in the past and I think it definitely works, but I do not like the way it looks, I guess you could hide the drill on a box and it would look much better.

In my personal opinion I think the window motor set up will work better (not the most inexpensive) if you have one with overlaod protection or you can wire circuit breakers or limit switches into the circuit. 
That is possibly what I'd be using on my *ride on blower project*. :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009:

I have electric chute rotation on both of my 1990's Yamaha YS240 "Rickys" and I really like the operation.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

while I have been using old window motor on my setup for about 3 years, I guess the seat motor would work fine but i don't know if it is water proof.

Carl


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*hbsblowersfan*: Thank you. Could you post up some photos of the Honda method? The screwdrive in the first photo looks like the motor I posted adapted to the screw. The last picture seems the simplest which appears to be a window regulator on a gear welded to the chute. It does not need a stop. But it would need an attentive operator...

And last but not least, what do you guys think is the best setup?


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## jtclays (Sep 24, 2010)

Some people have found the AYP/MTD style was actually a modified auto part regulator, that required some trimming and threading. I saw mentions of the acutual AYP part cost near $300 and many people found Dorman GM window drives to be made to fit for really cheap.
http://www.snowblowerforum.com/forum/ariens-snowblowers/31121-ariens-electrical-connection-help.html


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

Here is one of my motorized chute

http://s1203.photobucket.com/user/carlb2323/media/Cub%20Cadet%20865314/MVI_1794.mp4.html?sort=3&o=14


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*carlB*: Great video. Did you build that wth a window regulator and fuel hose? And if so, where did you get the worm gear?

*jtclays*: Thanks for the thread! 

OK both of you guys and others: So what are you guys using for a gear on the chute? Is that just a large chain ring for a bicycle which the window regulator motor is turning?


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

I am using the original gear on mine.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Here is one of the Dorman motors for $28 free shipping.

Replacement Window Regulator Lift Motor 12363370 16643538 22702140 | eBay 



But you will need to build a mounting plate for the motor and also need a large matching gear for the chute.

If you blower does not have a gear, a donor chute with a gear at the base would be your best option (IMO), take it of the donor chute and weld it or bolt it to your blower's chute make sure that it is perfectly centered to avoid issues.


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## GtWtNorth (Feb 5, 2014)

One way to eliminate the need for limit switches is to cut teeth into the blank section of the chute gear so it could rotate 360 degrees without stopping. You just have to use a little care when using the machine not to get a face full of snow (or wear a full face shield)!


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

I think (IMO) that this would be hard on most of them since the chute would interfere with the engine if it would turn 360 degrees. At least it think (IMO) it would happen on all my blowers (honda, yamaha, toro, ariens, and craftsman). Cutting new teeth would not be an easy task either. 
I think (IMHO) a mechanical stop would work as the motor can only prodece a certian torque and if the mechanical force agaist it is greater it would just stop, and I think that it is how window motors work (if the window is fully open or closed, it can NOT go any further, therefore it is the limit - I could always be wrong :facepalm_zpsdj194qh ) 

When i get a chance I'll take a pic of the mechanical limits on one of my "Rickys".


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

The reason i used the rubber fuel line as my "connector" between the motor and the gear is that when i reach the end of travel of the chute if i don't release the switch the motor shaft will just spin in the fuel line and not lock up the motor so I really didn't need a limit switch. There is enough grip between the hose and the shaft to rotate the chute with ease but it will just slip when the limit is reached, If more grip is need just use a hose clamp to increase the grip. KISS principle at work.


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## sscotsman (Dec 8, 2010)

My thoughts on home-made chute motors..and "factory" chute motors for that matter:

Dont bother..because you are adding unnecessary complexity and creating something that can fail and break down when you need it most..and if the ability for manual turning is taken away (which it usually is with chute motors) then you cant use the snowblower if the chute motor is broken! SO not worth the effort and hassle IMO..

and seriously, how hard is it to turn a crank? 
IMO, a chute motor is a solution without a problem.

Scot


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*sscotsman*: I apologize for the inadequate explanation. The reason for my interest in an electric chute is that I have an ATV (probably too small too narrow) Honda powered Kimpex 48" snowblower for my Polaris Ranger 6x6 and I need to be able to operate the chute from inside the cab. I will start up a thread with pictures for you guys to make some suggestions on the chute topic and other questions/issues I see and probably more that you guys will bring up that I haven't thought of yet.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

sscotsman said:


> My thoughts on home-made chute motors..and "factory" chute motors for that matter:
> 
> Dont bother..because you are adding unnecessary complexity and creating something that can fail and break down when you need it most..and if the ability for manual turning is taken away (which it usually is with chute motors) then you cant use the snowblower if the chute motor is broken! SO not worth the effort and hassle IMO..
> 
> ...


When i designed my setup i keep in mind that a quick switch back to a regular crank was a priority in case of a failure. With that in mind all i need to do is remove two bolts that hold the motor in place unplug one plug and slide the motor and bracket off of the blower. To re-install the original crank i need to just slip the end of the crank rod into the hose and install one bolt at the end of the crank near the handlebars. It takes me less than 10 minutes to accomplish this. The primary reason that I made this mod is that i am pretty tall and the crank assembly on my Cub was mounted very low which made it necessary for me to bend over quite a bit to use the hand crank. I have suffered over the years on and off with lower back pain and bending is sometimes a real PAIN. 

Mine has been working for the last 4 seasons (old buick window motor) even when the motor was covered in snow without a hitch.



Carl


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

I hope I can eventually make a tutorial when I finally get to do one of my blowers with upgraded electric chute rotation and power deflector, but in the meantime I'll give what my thought is for doing it the chute rotation part.

* You'll need:
- A window motor, possibly the dorman posted prior.
- 2 5 prong 30amp relays and connectors.
- A 4 way Joystick switch.
- 2 10amp 12volt circuit breaker (20amp might be needed but I will start with 10amp).
- Wire and electrical connectors.
- Fabricate mounting bracket.
- If not existent, fabricate chute gear to allow the window motor installation as well as the ability to turn 200-250 degrees.
Weld small metal tabs at the end of the gears on the chute (this mechanical limit will cause the amperage to raise and cause the circuit breaker to open stoping the motor)
Assemble the motor, chute and motor mounting bracket.
Wire the motor as indicated here.




instead of fuses use the circuit breakers (this will be your electrical limit switch).
Use the sides switches and leave forward/back for deflector use later.

This is what I can share for now.
:smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009:


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*HS*: Now we're talking! Thank you very much. What ever you put together would be worthy of a sticky.


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

Rather than causing the circuit breakers to act as your limit switches, why don't you just use a couple of reed switches and magnets to open the circuit rather than overload the circuit breaker and motor? The reed switches are waterproof and cheap. you will also need a few very cheap diodes.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*Good going guys!* I recently did a write up on relays on the Dakota-Durango.com forum. Here are some diagrams I attached.

The numbering system across relays is the same, although relays may be normally open or normally closed.

*HS*: Your relays are normally open relays. And complete the circuit when closed. I want to do this just like Honda did it, if you think Honda's set up is best. 

*CarlB*: I have no idea how my window regulators "know" to stop when the window is fully open or closed, despite the fact that I have had all three of them out recently in my Bronco. I don't recall seeing any limit switches. 

*Coby7*: You are _"Cluster Man!" _which is undoubtedly one of the Marvel Super Heros, but do you know if window regulators use limit switches? Window regulator set up seems quite robustly designed so is likely worthy of copying...

BTW, I have no idea how to place images in-line in my posts...


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Just so everyone knows, I am a simple person with a few ideas, if they are right I'm a happy that I can share them, If I am wrong and somebody has to correct me is is perfectly fine, as one can always be wrong or not have enough knowledge o a certain subject :facepalm_zpsdj194qh

_*Carl*_, 
I was just reading briefly about reed switches, and I can see them working but not as accurate as a circuit breaker (IMHO). 
A circuit breaker is what is used as a limit switch in power window systems on japaneese vehicles (specially older ones). 
What I will be using is a window motor, the circuit breaker is a proven system used for several years in automotive power window systems. 
Also you need to protect the sytem with a fuse (the circuit breaker will be your fuse) an it will not be exposed to the elements neither the relays would be, a "box" will need to be built to encase them.

_*E350*_, 
I do think that the open relay is a better set up, because the relay will not be "working" untill you use the accesory, otherwise the relay will be "working" all the time except when the accesory is in use.

_*GtWtNorth*_,
If the chute can turn 360 degrees without interfering it can be done (it would be nice), but if you want to have power chute deflector as well (or non-power chute deflector remote control) you will not be able to keep turning the chute arround 360 degrees.

_*sscotsman*_,
I understand your point of view.
Some of us just want to have a system that is power operated.
It really is more convenient (IMHO) than the crank handle. With this you can stop the chute on any position you want (in my experience with the crank handles on my ariens, honda and yamaha the crank handle tends to move down due to gravity and you only have certain directions for the snow to be blown, and in the long run it is a bit irritating if you have limited areas where the snow should go, is it due to misadjustment? maybe).
If I was concern about the system failing when I need it the most, I can always put a manual back up system into it (or I can always have spare parts available, after all if I built the system I can definitely repair it .
Would it be fun doing repairs when cold and/or snowing out?, not likely.

:smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009:


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*HS*: Hey wait a minute. Are you saying you can electrically control not only the left/right orientation of the chute, but also the up/down orientation of the deflector? I need to see this before I embark on motorizing the Kimpex blower -- which will be a while because I have a trailer to reweld and at least one truck to repair first.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

E350 said:


> *HS*: Hey wait a minute. Are you saying you can electrically control not only the left/right orientation of the chute, but also the up/down orientation of the deflector? I need to see this before I embark on motorizing the Kimpex blower -- which will be a while because I have a trailer to reweld and at least one truck to repair first.


That is correct _*E350*_,
_*Yes,*_ You could have one electrical joystick controller for chute rotation and also for electric deflector operation (most people use an 12 volt actuator for the deflector operation part) and if the contols, relays and circuit breakers are inside a cab it is even better 
There are quite a few threads on how to do it for snowblower attachmets (power lifting, power chute rotation and power chute deflector operation) including the following thread which is one of my favorites.

Automating my 4514 snowblower - MyTractorForum.com - The Friendliest Tractor Forum and Best Place for Tractor Information










There is an excellent description of the process, parts and diagrams used to do it.
:smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009:


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Here are a few pictures of the power chute rotation system of one of my 1990's Ricky blowers (*this is factory fitted*).

Chute motor with weather cover.









Chute motor uncovered.









Chute motor mechanical limit (it has a tab like this at each end for a mechanical or fisical stop).









Chute motor switch (instead of this switch a weather proof 4 way joystick can be used to control chute rotation and deflector as well)









Ricky wiring diagram.
_*Notice that right next to #12 (chute motor) there is #13 wich is a circuit breaker. It uses the same system as a vehicle window motor for limit switches (a combination of mechanical stop and electrical circuit breaker).*_
It looks like the chute motor switch is capable of reversing the chute motor rotation and carrying enough amperage, therefore it does not need relay(s).









I hope this can help.
:smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009: :smiley-confused009:


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*HS*: Nice! I have the same manual chute connection as the MTF guy, Dave4514, has. IMHO, his chain drive chute drive is overly complicated. I will likely order the motor in the first post above and either connect it direct or with a sacrificial/slipping fuel injection hose like *Coby7* did. I will wire it per your diagram or suggestions. However, relays should not be necessary, do you think?, because the peak amp draw on the motor is 25A which should pass through the 30A switch, below, no problem? Also I would like to see if the motor is "self limiting" I don't know if there is such a motor, but it would seem that a window regulator would have that function built in. I just don't remember any circuit breakers when I took out my Bronco's window regulators, but I have the oem electrical wiring diagram manual for thing, so I will look and post it up. 

Dave4514's joystick seems good, but I have never seen a joystick's insides before. If I could just buy a robust one, I think I would do it.

Here is the 30A 12v Toggle Momentary On Switch 3 Position Polarity DC Motor control switch I just bought for my garden tractor. Nice switch:







Here's the weatherproof toggle cover for it:


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

Here the window wiring diagram from my 1995 Ford Bronco. I will be you US Dollars to Canadian Donuts that it does not require limit switches or even circuit breakers.

Bronco - 1995 Ford - Window Wiring Diagram_Page_1.jpg

Bronco - 1995 Ford - Window Wiring Diagram_Page_2.jpg


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

_*E350*_,
You certanly can use the 30 amp switch to operate the chute motor without relays.
You can use another 30 amp switch to operate the chute deflector if you go that route.
I personally like the idea of a joystick to control both motors (although you can only operate one at a time, it is just my personal preference).
Because high amp joystick switches can get very expensive is why you have to use relays to carry the load while the joystick only operates the low amp side of the relay.
I have had plenty of window regulators removed on various manufacturer vehicles and I have not seen a single one with a limit switch or a circuit breaker (I was expecting to see switches the first times that I removed one). If it has a circuit breaker it would likely be at a fuse block or a relay block and not in the door area.
I have a coworker who is an electrical expert that worked for honda in the 80's up to mid 90's and his understanding is that they used circuit breakers for limit switches. 
The later vehicles use modules to control window travel and limits.
I worked on a 1982 Nissan 280zx with inoperative power windows that turned out to be do to a failed circuit breaker (this one indeed had this system).
I think that you DO need limit switches, because you need to control the torque on the motor, otherwise at 25 peak amps you'll have a high torque that may twist or break something.
Unfortunately with the chute gear that you have is not as simple to install mechanical stops as it would be with a gear type chute like my Ricky, perhaps in this case you may want to use what CarlB jusggested (reed switches and magnets, I have no experience with them but you can research it and see if you'd be able to use them as your limit switches).


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*HS*: Thanks for the education. I really can't wait to get to this project. 

I have looked through the web at various chute gears and mine seems to be the norm and pretty cheesy if you ask me. No bearings between the turning chute and the housing. Just rubs on the housing as it turns. Teeth cut on the side of the chute flange not on the bottom of the chute like your Yamaha. 

What is the bearing surface under the chute on your Yamaha? I can see that I will likely be changing the chute interface before I install an electric motor. I looked on craigslist for nonrunning snowblowers with better chute interfaces and found nothing. But did find some interesting parts on ebay. It seems that those Yamahas are rare.

https://denver.craigslist.org/grd/4982695620.html

So the exhaust is right next to the air filter on the side. Pretty smart...

Would I be correct in thinking that the Yamaha is an upgraded Honda track model?


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2011)

E350 said:


> Would I be correct in thinking that the Yamaha is an upgraded Honda track model?


No.

The seller states the engine is the _made by same company as Honda_; that's false. Honda casts, machines and assembles their engines and do not sub-contract or build these engines for an other company. 

Honda and Yamaha have similar designs and features, but the engines and the rest of the snow blower are completely independent.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks *robert*! And yes, after the penny jar has been depleted a few more times for various other projects, I plan to save up for a Honda track model...


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

E350 said:


> *HS*: Thanks for the education. I really can't wait to get to this project.
> 
> I have looked through the web at various chute gears and mine seems to be the norm and pretty cheesy if you ask me. No bearings between the turning chute and the housing. Just rubs on the housing as it turns. Teeth cut on the side of the chute flange not on the bottom of the chute like your Yamaha.
> 
> ...


Like [email protected] said Honda and Yamaha have a similar design but have nothing to do with each other except that both have japaneese technology. 
Those two brands are the brands of my choice.
The Yamaha Ricky is the only one that I have seen so far with the chute base gear facing down and the motor gear on a horizontal position. 
I think (IMHO) that most snowblowers that have a factory installed "window motor" type chute rotation (including honda) have the chute base gear facing to the sides and the motor gear in a vertical position, it's just a different design (IMO).

When looking for a different gear type for your blower chute, you need to consider the outside diameter of the gear, it shoud possibly need to be slightly larger then your existing chute gear and make sure that you have enough space to fit part of the the motors gear underneath. 

Look at this pictures and see if you can understand what I mean, part of the motor gear goes under the chute base gear.



















There is no bearing in between the chute and the auger housing, but on Honda and Yamaha blowers there is a plastic sleeve to keep them from feezen to each other.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

I think I said in an earlier post asking about Another Shoeless Honda that at least for me _"Learning to see" _is the most important part of any new endeavor_. _I couldn't see what you guys saw. 

*HS*: I think I see in the pictures above that a ring gear of sorts has been placed over or under the existing gear which was previously driven by (for a lack of proper terminology I will call) a manual worm drive "coil." 

That is not a bicycle chain ring gear (those have "U" shaped valleys between the teeth).

There are some actual chute gears on ebay, which are likely better but that picture may be of a motorcycle starter ring gear.

Because of the way the existing chute attaches to the auger housing. Limit tabs cannot be attached to the existing chute ring gear. So, thanks to you, I get how I put a piece of Teflon cutting board between the existing chute and auger housing, but otherwise keep the same chute-housing interface and then likely mount a motorcycle starter ring gear above it and hopefully the gear will mate with the gear on my chosen window regulator. A starter ring gear will allow the use of welded tabs for limit stops, which will hopefully trigger your proposed circuit breakers. 

I would like to use the same window regulator that my Bronco uses. Its rpm would seem slow enough without requiring a chain drive for gear reduction and I already know how they work and how to repair them. (They have sacrificial Delrin barrels which need to be replaced every 18 years... but are otherwise bulletproof.)

I would like to see your proposed circuit breakers when you get a chance.

I may try to rename this thread "Basics: Chute Design" and start posting up some pictures of all the various chute control methods I have come across in my searches -- which you guys likely already know about and can add your knowledge and experience to -- so that newbies like me can have a thread for a lot of chute info. Some are really simple, like the method on a garden tractor snow blower consisting of a horizontal drum with cable around it which, when hand rotated, apparently turns the vertical chute.

Thank you very much for helping me learn to see this aspect of snow blower design.

And oh yeah, one more thing: My chute is square. Go figure. Complicates installing an additional ring gear. So, I am looking on craigslist for a free local snowblower to cannibalize...


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

You're welcome _*E350*_,
I have not seen a motorcycle ring gear (though what you need is indeed like a ring gear), if it has the desired diameter, gear pitch as the window motor, and you can mount it to the chute base, it shoud work, you'll just need your stop tabs for the limits.
I don't think that I will get to my blower projects for a while, but when I get a chance I'll see if I can do the circuit diagram with the circuit breaker(s).


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

_*E350*_,
Yamaha snowblowers YS624 are hard to find nearby (ys240 "Ricky"-sold only in US is even harder along with YS828) in US because Yamaha stopped selling them in mid-late 90's.
My understandig is that Yamaha started selling new models in Canada starting in 07-09, but you rarely see them for sale in used condition.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

I decided this older thread would be as good as any to discuss a chute with potential 360 degree rotation. In other words teeth around the entire base of the chute with no stops. Yes there a many reasons to not do this, but with an electric drive, you would not have to worry about hitting stops. With an intuitive control setup for clockwise/counter clockwise there is little chance of shooting snow in your face. 
There are times I'd like to extend the travel of the chute rotation to throw it over my shoulder, but mostly I'm thinking how much it could simplify a mod to a motor driven input.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*dbert:* I am honored that you would use this thread. I am in the mountains now draining the water pipes and again thinking about snowblowers. Personally to move forward with mounting my ATV Kimpex snowblower to my Polaris Ranger (and then to install a electric chute drive) I need to find better protection from welding for my eyes. I have a Miller Titanium autodarkening helmet (with new batteries) and it isn't protecting my poor (and valuable eyes) in my opinion. (I am actually thinking about going fixed shade or sticking a fixed shade lens inside behind the auto darkening helmet lens.) Anyway(s), I am looking forward to your shute gizmology...


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

E350
It was obvious from the original post you have skills most of us don't.
Have you verified all the adjustments in your welding helmet lens? I only weld a few times a year but cant imagine going back to the old head flipper.


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## skutflut (Oct 16, 2015)

Shryp said:


> That is one advantage of the cordless drill method. You already have a clutch built in.


Does the drill have any problems with snow buildup in the internals?


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

skutflut said:


> Does the drill have any problems with snow buildup in the internals?


It won't have problems with snow but probably will have with water once the snow melts, you will need to build a box arround it to protect it.


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## snowhog (Nov 24, 2013)

Last year I installed a Bosch 12 volt drill on my Honda 928 Track Drive chute. It works great, but goes way too fast. Even at the lowest speed it turns the chute past the point I want it to go to. I mounted a 12 volt 7 amp battery that gets charged after I use the machine. This year I am going to install a seat motor like the first poster shows. The RPM is 190 s0 it should work well. I'll be doing the work in a few weeks and will post photos


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*snowhog*: You're up! Please post pictures. 

I am going old school. We will see how it works. I just bought a Pipeliner and a couple of Philips-safety.com fixed gold lenses and a magenta to go over it inside the helmet. And an autodarkening 10.5 fixed shade







So yes, we shall see how it goes. First snow at the top of the mountain as we speak.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*dbert*: Check this out:










https://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/5281111321.html


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. 
Looks like the company that made it was in Wisconsin. So made in USA no less.
It has many fascinating features. Look at the gear selections, 6 fwd, 3 rev. Auger up and down appears to be hydraulic. I wonder what the big Honda engine replaced.

I cant figure out what the second crank handle on the left side does. The one under the chute rotation crank.


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## nwcove (Mar 2, 2015)

dbert said:


> Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
> Looks like the company that made it was in Wisconsin. So made in USA no less.
> It has many fascinating features. Look at the gear selections, 6 fwd, 3 rev. Auger up and down appears to be hydraulic. I wonder what the big Honda engine replaced.
> 
> I cant figure out what the second crank handle on the left side does. The one under the chute rotation crank.


that is an interesting industrial machine. any chance the second handle angles the bucket left/right ? just a thought.


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## dbert (Aug 25, 2013)

nwcove said:


> that is an interesting industrial machine. any chance the second handle angles the bucket left/right ? just a thought.


I wondered about that too. It is probably what it does.


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## brassmonkey (Nov 10, 2015)

CarlB said:


> Here is one of my motorized chute
> 
> MVI_1794.mp4 Video by carlb2323 | Photobucket



Carl - this is nothing short of inspired. You've solved the problem of ensuring alignment (as in, doesn't matter - the hose compensates) and driveline protection. 

A general question - where does the power come from guys?

I'm new to blowers of this size. Will the twenty year-old MTD electric start Snowflite I just bought be capable of this? There's no onboard battery so I can't imagine they'd have bothered with providing 12 volt output from a stator or such.


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

brassmonkey said:


> Will the twenty year-old MTD electric start Snowflite I just bought be capable of this? There's no onboard battery so I can't imagine they'd have bothered with providing 12 volt output from a stator or such.


Some blowers are capable, some are not, if you have a 2 wire connector sticking out under the fuel tank near the pull start cover you likely have a 12 volt source.
What you'll need to find out is if it will be capable of moving the motor, if not you will need to set up a battery for it or see if there is an option to install a higher output charge coil on your engine.
The simplest way if you have an extra 12v battery will be to fully charge it and just use the power out of it.


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## brassmonkey (Nov 10, 2015)

Ok - thanks. I spent some time checking out Carl's resto pics and see he's got a battery stashed down by the wheels.


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## Stefan (Nov 27, 2015)

Hi,

I put a factory knock off motor on my snowblower to replace the hand crank. It draws 1.1 amps on stall. It runs at 0.5 amps while rotating the chute. The motor is a Grainger 2L008 but a 2L010 might rotate faster. My 2L008 rotates my CUB/MTD 357 cc 26" blower in 8 seconds.

I read all the relay limit switches and circuit breaker stuff. Forget the relay$. You can put one limit switch in each side of the motor power supply leads. The switches are 2 AMP DC and are normally closed Digikey 360-2393-NDs with a optional boot cover added on. 

Here's the problem with the chute. It stops rotating and the motor stalls. That cause a high current to flow in the motor and that's bad. MTD neve used limit switches that I could find in their parts lists. So when the limit switch opens and turns off the motor, how do you get the motor to run at a stop/stall condition? Diode switching to the rescue. You put one diode across each NC limit switch contacts. The diode anodes go towards the motor on both sides. The diode cathodes go towards the motor reversing switch contacts.

When rotating right, the right limit switch opens and the diode is already reverse biased. If you reverse the motor with your reversing switch, that forward biases the diode and bypasses the open limit switch. So, the motor can now move left and re-close the previously opened limit switch. My switches are bumped open by the chute housing. 

The motor does not blow my 1.5 A fuse. The boot covers are hard to locate in the spec's. So here's the number. 335-1142-ND. The 15/32nds thread toggle reversing switch uses a CWI310-ND rubber boot cover.

If you do not use travel limit switches, you are asking for a destroyed motor or gears inside it. 

Here's a few heads up for MTD, variants, owners. The grips draw 1.1 amps pulsing DC initially on cold and then draw 1.4 amps DC when heated up. The headlight draws 1.4 amps AC.

Is 1.4 amps the rated output of your MTD product alternators and stator? Who knows but that looks like a good working rating to be safe. 

If you need more power, use a battery and separate charger when you are done blowing snow.

HTH,

Stefan


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## YSHSfan (Jun 25, 2014)

Stefan said:


> Hi,
> 
> I put a factory knock off motor on my snowblower to replace the hand crank. It draws 1.1 amps on stall. It runs at 0.5 amps while rotating the chute. The motor is a Grainger 2L008 but a 2L010 might rotate faster. My 2L008 rotates my CUB/MTD 357 cc 26" blower in 8 seconds.
> 
> ...


Could you please post a wiring diagram for this with the limit switches and diodes.


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*Stephan*: Your post is exciting!

_"Could you please post a wiring diagram for this with the limit switches and diodes."_

_"Could you please post a wiring diagram for this with the limit switches and diodes."_

_"Could you please post a wiring diagram for this with the limit switches and diodes."_


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## Stefan (Nov 27, 2015)

*Snowblower Motor Limit Switches Diagram.*



hsblowersfan said:


> Could you please post a wiring diagram for this with the limit switches and diodes.


Hi, 

OK. Here goes a crude JPG.

Relays are used where people don't know how to use diode switching. Others have a relay logic controller that requires them to use relays or redesign the circuit. Relays are just expensive and bulky to use and mount. Relays should be de-spiked with diodes across the coils in reverse bias. I wanted to keep it simpler and solid state.

There is no way a quality 'crossed over' motor reversing toggle switch with spring return to center OFF and with momentary-ON in either pressed direction can cause a short circuit, IMHO. A limit switch short will just run the motor.

If the limit switch or the diodes short or fuse, you have a condition like 'no limit switches'. If they burn open or stick open, the motor won't run in that direction and you will notice that right away.

Don't use 1N914 small signal diodes. You need more than a one ampere rating. I like 1N400x diodes for higher currents. Power seat motors might need huge diode ratings for current. I don't know the current draw but a 30 AMP fuse is usually used in cars to run the seat motors and other things.

Re-post/ correction/ further details: IN4001 to 1N4004 are diodes with only a 1 amp rating. 

1N4006 or 1N4007 are diodes rated at 2.5 A in the ECG replacement guide. There are hundreds of diodes you can use. Just make sure they carry more current rating than your motor current under load or a stall. 

Digikey carries them and so does Jameco and Mouser. Just search for the proper diode current rating in a silicon diode section(s). Then watch your watt rating as stated below. 

You need to mind your currents and watt ratings of the diodes and switches. Diodes usually are a 0.7 volt or 'IR drop'. 
P in watts = I times V.

You probably know some of this but others might need some hints about what to check with an ammeter and volt meter.

HTH,

Stefan


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*Stephen*: Thanks! Although there are a couple of bright pebbles in there, my brain is basically a box of rocks. I know you must be impatient with people like me, but I have bought capacitors and other electronic gizmos from Digikey before and I have hacked up resoldering a couple of circuit boards including my truck's PCM and I have installed a DPDT switch or two, but if you will humor bonehead's like me a little more, if and when you get a chance would you please annotate your jpg schematic with the Digikey part numbers?

BTW, if you solve this problem, you will be a hero on this forum...


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## CarlB (Jan 2, 2011)

i made a slip connection between my motor and chute rod using a piece of 3/8" fuel line and a couple of hose clamps. You can adjust the amount of slippage by the tension of the hose clamps. it is easy works great will not stall the motor or break anything and it is simple needs no relays or limit switches. I coat the rod with a little grease before slipping the hose over it and adjust the clamp pressure so it is enough to turn the chute but slips as soon as the chute reaches the end if you forget to release the switch.


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## Stefan (Nov 27, 2015)

E350 said:


> *Stephen*: Thanks! Although there are a couple of bright pebbles in there, my brain is basically a box of rocks. I know you must be impatient with people like me, but I have bought capacitors and other electronic gizmos from Digikey before and I have hacked up resoldering a couple of circuit boards including my truck's PCM and I have installed a DPDT switch or two, but if you will humor bonehead's like me a little more, if and when you get a chance would you please annotate your jpg schematic with the Digikey part numbers?
> 
> BTW, if you solve this problem, you will be a hero on this forum...


Hi E350,

No problem. Not everyone knows how to select electronic components so they won't fail. These components are all on my CUB (MTD) Track, 357 cc, 26", 2015 snowblower.

I am not sure what parts you need so here's an almost complete list and some options for other to consider.

*Digikey numbers end in ND.

* Normal weatherproof limit switches are $30 to $50 EACH! Make your own.

Red button (limit sw), NKK switch, N.C., push button, momentary ON, 15/32" threads, and epoxy sealed terminals. 360-2303-ND $4.10

Inch threaded boot cover for above NKK sw: 335-1142-ND $2.44

Motor reversing TOGGLE switch rubber boot, with 15/32nd threads. CWI310-ND $1.30. Cheap to buy for a toggle switch cover.

Wire from Lowes: #18 AWG - 4 conductor stranded copper.

Advance Auto Battery: Motorcycle 10 amp-hour, smallest they had, 12V.

Grainger: 2L008 gearhead motor. MTD knockoff with the same black PVC boot cover as MTD has shown in color in the Professional Shop Manual(s). $70.

Grainger: 6L013 5/16" motor set screw coupler: $8. Must be drilled out to 3/8" diameter half way through to accept a Home Depot 3/8" OD aluminum drive shaft that's 5.75 inches long I made.

I had to find a diode on Digikey available in a quantity of one or two.
My recommendation is a MUR410RLGOSCT-ND 4 amp diode: $.49 
I had some unlabeled diodes in my junk box that's what I used. They were at least 1/8" diameter.

Here's a really good looking DPDT reversing switch that is waterproof. Not cheap. $18 as a rocker switch. 
Momentary Rocker Switch
I used a toggle switch I had from the 1970s.

So, here's a Digikey toggle switch for motor reversing:
480-3086-ND, 20 amp, sealed, and a 1/2" hole mount. $19. Not cheap either.
You want a half inch panel mount hole for any pre-drilled MTD Console frame hole to work. I would stay away from small semimicro- and micro-switches when using gloves.

Fuse holders are available at auto parts stores.
FYI. If you have MTD grip heaters, I would switch the 7.5 Amp ATC fuse to 2 or 3 amps. The grips only draw 1.4 amps. So 7.5 is way--*way* over rated and puts your engine stator/ alternator winding at risk, IMO. 7.5 is a 500% over rating. Not good for shorting-out safety, IMO.

ATC 2 AMP fuse use: 283-3026-ND $1.01 43% over rated.
ATC 3 AMP fuse use: 283-2314-ND $0.77 114% over rated.
These are good for a chute rotator motor like a 2L008.

I do not recommend this switch below for your heater grips unless your blower is out of warranty.
This is a rocker switch with ON-OFF-ON.
Digikey 1091-1175-ND $4.15
This is a direct replacement for the SPST rocker grip switch on a MTD blower by any name like mine. 
Cut out dimensions: Rectangular - 27.30mm x 12.30mm.
One direction of throw is grip heating. Center is OFF. The other direction is motor drive.

FYI. MTD uses the TROY Storm Tracker 4-way joystick that is powered by the engine stator winding by switching out the heater grips power temporarily. You can not run both the heated grips and the MTD chute or deflector motors at the same time. 

So the top rating of the MTD engine stators winding is no more than about 1.4 amps times two or 2.8 amps, IMO. Sure you can turn the copper winding wires black using a 4 amp load. Stick to 1.4 amps as a goal. MTD did.

Using a battery to power the chute or deflector is way safer. Just hang the battery in a pouch under the cross bar between the handles. 
A waist belt money pouch or hunting pouch might just work for the hanging battery "bag".

I used Lowes or HD Simpson brand 3" x 5" flat lumber tie plates to make my limit switch mounts. Just bend them to fit and to hit parallel to your chute.
These limit switches do not have a lot of travel during electrical contact but they are the best and cheapest I could find with over a 1 amp rating *DC*. 2 amps DC is good enough for me.

OK. Here are some heads up on push button switch terms. 
*Pre-travel* is the amount the switch is pushed in before it makes electrical contact.
*Over-trave*l is the distance during this electrical contact.
*Total-travel* is the sum of these two.
So, if you don't like my switches, you have enough info to be dangerous and select your own.

I am not sure what window lift motors and power seat motors draw as current as chute rotator motors under load or no-load. They are usually in a 30 amp fuse grouping in a car. No help there.
2 amps DC is the rating of my small limit switches and they fit the rating of the Grainger motor I used, a 2L008.

I do not work for Lowes, HD, Grainger, Mouser, Digikey, or Jameco; and never have.

Stefan


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*Stefan*: Perfect. 

And I know how much work it was to prepare your materials list (because I have done them for other issues on other forums) and I know how hard it can be to prepare a schematic and then to resize it for uploading here. 

Now if we could trouble you for a picture or two of your actual set up.

The you can hang around and critique while others try to copy your work. Personally I have an ATV 48" snowblower which I must manipulate from inside the cab on a 6x6 Polaris Ranger, so a workable electronic chute control is important. Thanks for all your help so far buddy.


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## Stefan (Nov 27, 2015)

*Large Current Rated Relay*

Hi,

I used this relay on a 10 foot satellite dish motor back in the day and it handles 16 amps of current.

Digikey 
# Z848-ND
OMRON RELAY
*12 V* DC coil at *44 mA.*
Sealed clear case.
Manufacturer number *G2R-1-E-DC12*
$5.18 each.

Stefan


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## E350 (Apr 21, 2015)

*Stephan*: You are the man! (I am just a big talker at this point re chute motor.) I have been spending my time welding on our various trailers and setting up my new to me first ever snowblower, Ariens ST1032, with chains, cut and drilling a new scraper bar, and installing missing lockout hub and some other stuff that fell off or broke or wore over its history prior to me. 

I have not bought the seat motor for the electric chute motor installation on the 48" Kimpex ATV snow blower yet, because I haven't embarked on that project yet and I wanted to see what everyone else recoommended. So, I am sorry I can't tell you the amp draw of that motor.

Please continue with your experiment. *CarlB* did the motor driveshaft slip joint (kinda like a cordless ratcheted drill chuck) instead of limit switches maybe because it was easier and maybe because the limit switches look delicate and might freeze open or closed if moisture was to get to them. So post #58 is a mechanical solution to your electrical solution to prevent chute over-rotation. Although I am the only one who has apparently has been responding, trust me, everyone wants to see your approach to this problem. Thanks again.

Please continue to do and to share your experiment.

BTW: NOAA Echo Summit
http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=38.8246295&lon=-120.03657240000001&site=all&smap=1&searchresult=Little%20Norway%2C%20El%20Dorado%20National%20Forest%2C%20Echo%20Lake%2C%20CA%2095721%2C%20USA#.VmZcbHldEb1

*Wednesday Night*
Rain and snow likely, mainly after 10pm. Cloudy, with a low around 34. Very windy, with a southwest wind 30 to 35 mph increasing to 40 to 45 mph in the evening. Winds could gust as high as 65 mph. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 7 inches possible. 
*Thursday*
Snow. High near 37. Very windy. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow accumulation of 15 to 21 inches possible. 
*Thursday Night*
Snow. Low around 19. Breezy. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 7 inches possible.


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## Stefan (Nov 27, 2015)

E350 said:


> *Stefan*: Perfect.
> 
> And I know how much work it was to prepare your materials list (because I have done them for other issues on other forums) and I know how hard it can be to prepare a schematic and then to resize it for uploading here.
> 
> ...


E350,

I do not have any good pictures as this is a prototype and it works. I am waiting for my higher current rated switches and they didn't come today. I don't have any pictures of the limit switches because I knew I was going to replace them once this system was proven to work.

Here's a VERY crude side view before the limit switches were tested. You can see the spiral drive shaft and how it connects to the spring pin and original dark plastic coupler on the left.. The metal shaft coupler is on the right. You can see a gap where the Simpson tie plate is with black tape on it so I don't get cut. The motor is on the far right. In that gap is a bunch of spacers I used from a plumbing supply of flat washers.

All that loom is old stuff I had and I bought new cable loom. The yellow bag is the battery bag with a connector wire set shown.

I didn't know if it would snow and I taped up everything to protect it from any road salt.

I coated my old DPDT switch terminals with liquid tape from the HD electrical department.

If you have an ammeter, could you measure the current draw of that seat motor you got on Amazon hooked to a car battery? I would also like to know the window lift motor current. I suspect they are higher than 3 amps but I don't really know that.

If you are controlling some heavy duty hydraulic fluid pumps, you probably will use relays for that. My setup can then control the relay coils and let the contacts run the heavy current loads. Remember to put de-spiking or suppresser diodes across the relay coils. I would use 1000 volt peak inverse volts (P.I.V.) rated diodes. They will be reversed biased. The white or red line negative end marker goes towards the positive terminal of the battery or power supply. The arrowhead anode (+) of the diode goes towards the negative battery terminal or negative lead on the power supply.

If you get arcing across the relay contacts that has to be handled with a large capacitor across the contacts to stop the arcing. 100 MF would be the place to start and then go up or down from there.

I really don't know what equipment you are using on your snowblower or how it is setup. So, I could be off base on some of this.

Here's some stuff I found with relays.
http://www.bpesolutions.com/bpemanua...r.limit.sw.pdf

I am not sure how their switches D and E work or the logic of them. 
Another problem with this above link is the limit switches and diodes have to carry *huge motor currents* and that won't be cheap.

So, I'll make my own schematic of how I think this circuit might work with relays for you using a large current draw DC motor.

How does this circuit for a large current motor look?

It features smaller current handling push buttons switches and no diodes.
Relays coils can be small current devices. 
The controlled relay contacts can be much larger currents.

I forgot the de-spiking diodes across the relay coils. Ops!
You could burn a de-spiking diode to a "fused closed" condition and then throw the OR switch. That would cause a dead short across the battery. So, you have to put a fuse in series with each of the limit switches to prevent a wiring harness melt down! A one amp fuse will do with the OMRON relay I suggested in another out-of-sequence post near this one.

If your relay contacts arc, you might have to put a 1000 microfarad capacitor across the contacts. See YouTube a demo on relay contact arcing.

It is not possible to activate both relay coils at once with the OR switch.
The 'OR' switch determines direction of rotation, current direction, and the path of the current.

The two relays replace the DPDT momentary motor reversing switch in the "diodes only" switching circuit. You still need an OR switch whether it's a DPDT or a SPDT momentary OR switch in the relay setup.

Disclaimer: This circuit might not work as planned. I did not build it and test it. 

All copyrights are reserved to Stefan and rights extended to snowblowerforum.com to publish these circuits to help others building chute rotators.

HTH,

Stefan


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